math-and-meta

[mint coral]

Satisfactory has never given you 500k MW

it would say 500000MW

[flat flume]

And then I’ll setup each plutonium accelerator into a dry cask looking building

If a nuclear plant were to make 500gW, I’d be concerned

[mint coral]

the max possible Nuclear power output is 1470000MW apperently

[fervent spire]

I also blame this on people colloquially using 'k' as shorthand for a thousand without realizing the actual prefix it represents lol

They don't mean 500 kilo megawatts they mean 500 thousand megawatts

[flat flume]

The average 2 unit nuclear plant makes about 2gW at max load, so that would be 250 units

[mint coral]

I suggest you take accointability for your own decision and be better.

I believe in you. you can do it

[flat flume]

Or 25, base ten is confusing sometimes

[mint coral]

In any case ATM i only have mk5 belts So ill push through 600 uranium from the impure node and base my facility off of that

thats 6 Nuclear rods a minute

[flat flume]

You mean Uranium Fuel assemblies 🤓

[mint coral]

6 rods a minute is 30 reactors making 10.min of waste

[mint coral]

no i mean Uranium Fuel Rod as that is what we use in Satisfactory

[flat flume]

But it is a fuel assembly nonetheless

[mint coral]

BUT we are playing satisfactory. it doesn't matter what the real life equivalent is

[flat flume]

Guh

Let me have my moment

[mint coral]

may i suggest

[ionic sapphire]

nucular

[flat flume]

Could you dm the the server invite perhaps

[mint coral]

all i did was google dude. I believe in your googling skills ^_^

[flat flume]

Most of these are just for games that have power plants

[manic goblet]

Does anyone know of a table that shows the fuel consumption rates for drones? The wiki has a good table for fuel consumption, but it doesn't include a section for drones.

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Vehicles#Fuel_consumption

[oblique hollow]

checked the drone page itself?

drones arent normal road vehicles and thus dont share the exact same fuel logic

[manic goblet]

I am powering my drones with plutonium fuel rods, and I am trying to get a bit more accurate picture of their consumption rate. The usage rate for the drone port itself only goes down to the hundredth place, and it looks like rounding is involved.

[oblique hollow]

you can compare by using the MJ values

[manic goblet]

The drone page only lists the energy capacity for each fuel type. I am curious if there is a known fuel rate consumption formula that provides a better estimate than the rounding in the droneport itself

[oblique hollow]

fuel usage on the old system used to be 4 batteries fixed cost and then 1 extra battery per km of distance

we dont actually know the formula for the new system for drones ever since other fuels were allowed

that page doesnt show consumption rate @mint coral

[manic goblet]

I know that used to be the old formula, and I have done a bit of digging, but I didn't know if a new formula was ever determined. I am trying to be a bit more exact compared to 0.01 or 0.04 fuel rods per minute or round trip respectively.

[mint coral]

im aware when i caught up i deleted lol

[oblique hollow]

no clue honestly.

I dont feel like doing yet another test to determine how much drones actually eat per minute

[manic goblet]

I am planning on using some of my plutonium rods for power at some point. Right now, they are only powering drones and the rest are being sunk, but I am trying to get a bit more accurate picture for the entire drone fleet so I can determine what I would have left for nuclear plants.

[mint coral]

doesnt the drone landing pad tell you the estimated fuel usage per trip?

i havent used them in a long while tbh

[oblique hollow]

I would just shove in ionized fuel, let it go for one trip and then compare the fuel value of ionized fuel to plutonium fuel

[manic goblet]

It does, but it looks like it is being rounded, so I was curiuos if there was a bit more accurate way to model it

[oblique hollow]

No, not that anyone currently knows of

[mint coral]

The game really never gives you exact numbers. its all rounded numbers i think. But im not a deep into the weeds kind of player

[manic goblet]

Yeah. That was something I was considering to get a better estimate. I will check that out. I figured with as much math and investigation that is done here, I would check first to see if someone has already figured it out, and it just didn't happen to be published on the wiki yet.

Thanks for the help 🙂

[mint coral]

I've only used rocket fuel. I set and forget.

[tall vale]

Does anybody know the optimal setup for fiber, rocket fuel (lots, for generators and jetpack), plastic and rubber? I just need the way to go (like what to make from what), not the ratios

[mint coral]

what phase are you in

[tall vale]

Im starting oil production (i can get all the milestones needed)

[mint coral]

phase 3 then. ATM Heavy oil residue to diluted packaged fuel is your go to for power

you get 10gw per 300 oil

[tall vale]

But from what do i make plastic? Straight from oil or from residue?

[mint coral]

once you get recycled plastic and recycled Rubber recipes they are your go to for plubber

[mint coral]

you can make some but youll need more eventually when you do you do something like this

[cosmic belfry]

how have I never said plubber before

[mint coral]

its easier eh lol

[cosmic belfry]

I love it XD

[tall vale]

Now where do i get the fuel? From a diffrent node?

[cosmic belfry]

I still gotta set up a train to bring plubber back to my starter factory

I've been hauling it myself like a peasant

and feeding things from containers

[mint coral]

ya I process one node at a time for power and one at a time for plubber.

[tall vale]

ok

also that is A LOT of products, i only need like 10/min, its just for my usage and for packaged fuel

[cosmic belfry]

I think I give up on automating the phase 3 parts, I have enough leftover crap to container feed them, especially if I sloop

[mint coral]

my first fuel setup is usually a impure node. I take the poly by product and make equal parts plastic and rubber. The plastic and rubber goes into a industrial storage for personal use and overflows into a sink.

[cosmic belfry]

seems like I need a lot more plastic hmm

[mint coral]

its player choice dependent. im currently using 200 rubber/min and 14 plastic a minute at the end of phase 4

[cosmic belfry]

ah gotcha

not trying to argue I'm a newb heh

[mint coral]

me niether ^_^ hard to tell on discord. I tend to assume everyone is interacting in good faith

[tall vale]

sum like this?

[cosmic belfry]

I still gotta figure out how to ramp up plubber, I might just make enough to cover my current needs and have leftover byproduct for a bunch of fuel gens

[cosmic belfry]

probably adjust the numbers on plubber to use all the resin?

[tall vale]

yh, i will, i will also make fabric

[mint coral]

it works I usually keep it simple. Then process the poly product as needed 10/min is enough for personal use as you have it set up

Also @wind spade love the website update

[cosmic belfry]

LOL the tools UI is awesome I just saw that a second ago

[tall vale]

can i procces polymer to fuel? Or can i only make plubber and fabric from it?

[mint coral]

thats it

[tall vale]

So like this? Are there any recepies to increase the fuel output?

[mint coral]

brings mty back to the win95 days. F~~~ im old

[mint coral]

give me a tik

[cosmic belfry]

yeah exactly what I thought, immediately recognized it lol I'm old too

[mint coral]

yes this is with to alternates

[tall vale]

alr ima make this

[cosmic belfry]

4x the fuel is nuts

[cosmic belfry]

I was working on this and a good tip I got was to make a blueprint for a refinery and two packagers so it's a closed loop. instead of having a building with a bunch of packagers or something

whoops wrong reply

and uhhh make some empty canisters to hand feed the packagers to get started

[mint coral]

i suggest a BP with a refinery and two packagers and a self contained conveyor loop

water comes in gets packaged
packaged water goes into the refinery with HOR to make packaged fuel which outputs the refinery into a packager removing it from the packages sending the empty packagers into the water packager closing the loop

[cosmic belfry]

thank you for explaining better

[mint coral]

#math-and-meta message

#math-and-meta message

these links are previous times ive explained. happy to answer questions though

with this method you make 800 fuel for 300 oil.

800/20=40 fuel geerators 40 x 250mw equals 10000Mw of power

fun ratio is that 3 refineries making 40 Heavy oil residue each supplies 4 refineries making Diluted packaged fuel (30 HOR each). this is a nice way to cluster them in groups. making trouble shooting easier

[vast jungle]

works both for (Fuel)Power and as a first step for efficient Rubber or Plastic

[mint coral]

#math-and-meta message

[vast jungle]

I don't like to build Plastic/Rubber recycling in a loop

[mint coral]

i didnt need more Plubber until late phase 4 so i wnet to blenders

[mint coral]

i understand why

[vast jungle]

the recipes are great, but loops are an unnecessary potential issue

[mint coral]

https://tenor.com/view/ouroboros-the-order-gif-15886299522454123539

[vast jungle]

a series on doublers is as efficient and less easy to mess up

[cosmic belfry]

how would this work?

I should probably take the less easy to mess up option lol

[vast jungle]

you turn the Polymer Resin into Rubber... then use the 30 Rubber into 30 Rubber and 30 Plastic (turn 20 Rubber into 20 Plastic, take 10 of the Plastic and turn them back into Rubber)... keep the part you want, double the other one three times

[cosmic belfry]

I'm trying to plan how to make my refineries and fuel gens modular and I was gonna go for groups using 150 crude each so it works for any type of oil node 🤔

[vast jungle]

funny thing, you can use the same layout of machines for Rubber or Plastic... just by switching between the two "30/30" belts

[cosmic belfry]

hmm interesting I'd have to play around in the calculator, I don't have those recipes yet though

[vast jungle]

recycling just turns 30 Rubber/Plastic and 30 Fuel into double the amount of the other... so 3 doublers turn 30 input into 240 of the other (and consuming 210 Fuel

the other 30 fuel is exactly what you need to transform the 30 Rubber into 30 Rubber and 30 Plastic (with two steps)

afterwards you have the usual 1:3 conversion of raw oil into plastic (or rubber)

you need 4 alt recipes, but they are worth the effort

[mint coral]

I generally do not move into phase 4 until the MaM tells me i cant learn anything more from harddrives

[vast jungle]

there are not that many "bad" alt-recipes

[mint coral]

All alts are just tools. You pick the one for the job.

ya you could use a flat head screwdriver for a slot screw. Or a butter knife or a power drill

[vast jungle]

I remember some silly ones like Charcoal, but the wiki doesn't contain it anymore... was it removed with 1.0?

[mint coral]

charcoal and bio fuel are still a thing i use them both

[cosmic belfry]

wtf lol really

I'm so annoyed that I'm still stuck in phase 3

[mint coral]

ya, it removes them all from the pool so when you go to t7 and t8 you will not get them

[cosmic belfry]

yeah I'm hoarding a lot but didn't think to get ALL of them lol

I doubt I'll do that since it's my first playthrough but good idea

[mint coral]

youll likely wnat the achievment anyways ^_^

[cosmic belfry]

I think the only two I want rn are heavy encased frames and plastic recycling since I have rubber recycling

I'm sure there are more that I want just those are the obvious ones

[cosmic belfry]

for collecting hard drives? that gotta be in one save ?

[mint coral]

yes sir

[vast jungle]

its not that difficult to get them all

and you want most of the great alts anyways...

[manic goblet]

Just did a bit of testing with drones and wanted to report the results as I had asked about it here earlier. My numbers appear to be matching for different fuel types in testing. Each takeoff/landing uses a total of 12000MJ of energy. In additional, a drone will use 6MJ/m when traveling; this appears to be based on its horizontal distance traveled.

If a drones does a round trip from two drone ports that are a kilometer apart, it will have two takeoff/landing cycles and travel 2000m in total.

Total trip energy = 12000MJ/landing * 2 landings + 6MJ/m * 2000m
Total trip energy = 36000MJ

From the total energy, one can calculate the amount of fuel needed based on the energy per unit fuel. For 36000MJ, this would be 3.6 packaged ionized fuel, 6 batteries, or 18 packaged turbofuel per trip.

[meager kettle]

the drone port does report the fuel use per min and per roundtrip :p

[manic goblet]

It does, but I was trying to get accurate numbers for plutonium fuel rods, and I was getting 0.04 fuel rods per roundtrip, and it looked like the number was being rounded to the hundereths place. I was curious what formula was being used to calculate the exact fuel cost.

[meager kettle]

ah

yea, it does round down to 0.00 if the trip is short too :p

[manic goblet]

This was my earlier discussion.

I figured I would share my findings if people were interested

[thorny marsh]

Suppose I have a gazillion machines producing, say, Iron Rods, at 54.321% multiplier each. Is there a tool or a method to make it easier to change the multiplier for all those machines without going through them one by one? (Suppose that those machines are interleaved with a gazillion other machines producing other stuff, and I don’t want to accidentally overwrite their recipes.)

[gusty moss]

i use ctrl+c and ctrl+v to copy paste settings from 1 machine to another. dont know any better way to do it. this copies clocks, powershards (if inserted, and yes, need them in your inventory or dimentional space to paste it, if not it stuck on 100% obv), and type of recipe from the machine you pressed ctrl+c on into the one you click ctrl+v on.

[thorny marsh]

I wish there was a way to replace the machines in an installed blueprint (as easily as it’s to replace a dumb splitter with a smart splitter) if the only changes in the blueprint are clock speeds.

I mean when one’s factory looks like this, it’s quite awkward to go through the machines one by one…

[manic goblet]

Going one by one with the copy buffer is your best bet at the moment, there is no master clock speed tool where you can tune the clock speed downstream.

[gusty moss]

yeah, easier to make a new tower than replacing recipes/clockspeed etc.

[thorny marsh]

Sadly that may be true, even considering the fact that disassembling the tower requires manual deconstruction of the vertical conveyors, which there are like 20 per floor in my design… (see bug: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/69c3dbb8f991d027c570f9a4)

[lean bobcat]

My brains melting trying to figure out a smart way to do this, would appreciate if anyone has ideas, im working with t4 belts so 480 a second, i have 10 machines that all need 120 each minute and i have 3 belt lines each carrying exactly 400 each, is there any smart way to get this working at 100% efficiency or do i just need to go way further back in the factory line and just entirely rework it so that its not 400 each belt

[thorny marsh]

Priority merger is your friend.

[lean bobcat]

what does priority merger enable me to do? somehow ive managed to avoid it for my 800hours of playing

[thorny marsh]

Priority merger allows you to merge material from a side track such that the material already on the belt is not getting delayed.

I.e. it allows you to saturate belt's capacity without the original material on the belt getting congested.

• belt2→split a branch into a priority merger on belt1. (Prioritize belt1 input). Now belt1 carries 480, belt2 carries 320.
• belt3→split a branch into a priority merger on belt2 (after the split). (Prioritize belt2 input). Now belt2 once again carries 480, belt3 carries 240.
• Split belt1 into 240, 240. Split both into 120, 120.
• Split belt2 into 240, 240. Split both into 120, 120.
• Split belt3 into 120, 120.

[lean bobcat]

is the math roughly correct now? trying to slowly wrap my head around what you just typed out lmao, i think i roughly understand it now though, so thanks a bunch as i think ive been running circles trying to math this out in my head for like last 20 minutes

[thorny marsh]

Yes, the math is now correct

Besides belt saturation, one usecase I had for priority merger was in a nuclear reactor: I had storage containers for three different kinds of rods. All three were output into a single priority merger, that chose rods in preferential order such that the most preferred rods are consumed before the less preferred ones.

[lean bobcat]

gimme a second, unlocking them real quick and then doing what i think you have described, would appreciate a real quick look at a screenshot if it roughly looks right

[thorny marsh]

Sure

[wind spade]

either make it so that each belt is multiple of 120, or clock the machines so that they eat 400 in total

[thorny marsh]

An alternative approach (without a priority merger) is to split into Mk.2 belts:

• Three-way split each belt into Mk2, Mk2, and Mk3. An even split would be 133.33, but Mk2 limit is 120 so it ends up being 120+120+160.
• You now have 6×120 and 3×160. Split each of the Mk3s into two new Mk2s. You end up with 6×80 (in addition to the 6×120). Now split each of these into two: 12×40 (and the 6×120).
• Finally three-way merge the twelve 40-belts in groups of 3: You get 4×120. The final result is 10×120.
  For a total of 12 splitters and 4 mergers (32 iron plates, 16 cables, 16 iron rods).
  In comparison, the priority merger method has 7 splitters and 2 priority mergers (14 iron plates, 14 iron rods, 4 reinforced plates, 2 modular frames, 2 crystal oscillators).

[lean bobcat]

Sorry if the screenshots bit unclear :P, the red marked ones are priority mergers with the main belt being set to high priority (with the others at low), remaining ones are just normal splitters

[thorny marsh]

Looks about right — although I wasn’t expecting the final splits to be manifolded.

[lean bobcat]

ah, i just kinda default to manifolds, though it shouldnt affect anything once they have been running a while, or?

[thorny marsh]

Yes, probably so.

[lean bobcat]

just gotta make sure it doesnt mess up somewhere else as this is a small part of my first time trying to make a turbofuel plant with bunch of alt recipies

[thorny marsh]

Make sure that the priority mergers are configured to have medium or high priority on the straight track and low priority on the side channel. EDIT: Ah, you did mention so too.

[vapid gorge]

why the priority mergers though?
you can just manifold things, or clock the machines to put different amounts on the belt

[vague hawk]

did anyone ever manage to process all of the iron into pure iron ingots ?

[wind spade]

probably

[vague hawk]

cuz 72,780 iron ore/min turned into 135,162 ingots/min sounds really intimidating
and stupid

[vapid gorge]

it's just a lot of refineries spammed everywhere.

Would rather just use alloy

[slate river]

Im honestly surprised coal power is quite a hard thing to set up

[vapid gorge]

it's simple when you have the basics

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[slate river]

I do mean in general I have over a thousand hours lol

[vapid gorge]

what do you think is hte issue?
you can just do 1 pipe 1 belt and feed it like any manifold

[slate river]

Its mostly the fact im just never able to get the ratio correct for scaling in the future

[vapid gorge]

I really don't understand what you mean

[slate river]

Im currently running an 80 Coal Gen to 30 Water Gen setup and im starting to run out of water

[vapid gorge]

expanding an existing system is always much more annoying than creating a dedicated system

[vapid gorge]

yeah interconnecting a ton of fluid systems together is never a good idea

[slate river]

Probably haha

[vapid gorge]

no reason to connect all that

[slate river]

Waste to get mk2 water pipes xd

[vapid gorge]

just keep doing groups of 8 and 3

you still wind up with 80 and 30

[slate river]

daisy chaning has fixed my cable lines so much though

[vapid gorge]

that soounds like you just weren't putting 1 socker/pole per machine to keep it tidy

[slate river]

this was from like 750 hours ago im still on my save from a while ago and was tidying it up and saw my coal power setup

I hope it transfers over to the actual update haha

[vapid gorge]

sure but people always had the option of 1 socket/pole per machine to keep wiring tidy

mk2 and mk3 poles just make everything messy, but it's a choice

[slate river]

if you saw my old power system youd have a heart attack

[vapid gorge]

eh. Mostly just pointing out you didn't have to create a mess before daisy chain

[unkempt kestrel]

Idk which one to choose

[vapid gorge]

which are you more likely to use in your next factory?

[tropic hawk]

IMO if you have Iron Pipe and Iron wire, Steel rotor is real nice, otherwise I would go with Stitched Iron Plate

[wary rapids]

steel rotors are great for your first depot motors.

think im using that one right now sense i cheaper on copper in starter factory and went hard in pipes.

[tough roost]

can someone help me with this im transporting raw materials with a stack size of 100 and the travel time to load and unload at the stations is 3:43 and i am wondering how many items it can transport per minute to get everything right

[vapid gorge]

well stack size 100 and 32 slots in a car means you can fit 3200 in 1 trip

[tough roost]

wait no i said it wrong

[vapid gorge]

so as long as 3:43 seconds doesn't load more than the 3200 parts you're good

[tough roost]

nvm ill do my own math

[vapid gorge]

was there something you didn't understand that I coudl explain more clearly?

[tough roost]

sorry im inputting 960 resources per minute and i wanna know if my train has a fast enough round trip to deliver the 960 resources a minute but according to me i should be able to.

[vapid gorge]

3:43 minutes is basically 3.75 minutes

so 3200/3.75 = 853.4 parts per min

in one car

so sounds like you want to use 2 cars

[tough roost]

can i add more locomotives to make it go faster?

[vapid gorge]

not impossible but full cars also make things slower, so you'd have to test it full

[tough roost]

bruhhhhhh

[vapid gorge]

easier and takes up the same space adding a platform

do 1x mk4 belt on each platform

[tough roost]

im not even transporting from that many nodes ill just get 8 freight cars and 2 locomotives

[vapid gorge]

you could easily do 2 freight for 960...

[tough roost]

im transporting more than 960 i was just wondering if i could do 960 per freight

[vapid gorge]

what's your fastest belt speed?

[tough roost]

mk4

[vapid gorge]

then that woudl be impossible

[tough roost]

no cus it has 2 inputs

[vapid gorge]

no matter how fast the train is, 960 pm on 1 platform is impossible with mk4s

when trains dock input/outputs stop for 27 seconds

so you can never move 2 belts per platform

[tough roost]

ohhhh

[vapid gorge]

usually you want to aim for 1 belt per platform

it's a good ball park

[vast jungle]

two belts from the platform into a double-storage container, one belt to connect the container to the factory... helps to compensate the waiting time during (un)loading

[vast jungle]

fun fact... you can put a double storage container parallel to the train tracks directly "against" the train station and have enough space for the belts to the station and a belt away to the factory

[meager kettle]

the cargo terminal shows thruput numbers, if you just send some items and sink it on the arrival point for a few round trips and the number will be accurate

[viscid estuary]

i had a mk1 pipe choking my fuel now we cooking with fuel

[limpid vapor]

i have a system with 8 ins that i need to divide into 10 equal parts, at the end of which are 10 consumers providing a bottleneck

can i achieve this by using a bottlenecked 1:5? basically splitting each of the 8 into 5, for a total of 40 lines, then merging 4 of these to form one hopefully equal line?

[wind spade]

~~you can clock so you have 8 consumers 😛 ~~

[limpid vapor]

no, i cant

[wind spade]

yes, you can

[limpid vapor]

no, the system is already built, this is a necessary middle piece

i am not going to rebuild systems that took dozens of hours to build just to fit a different solution, when this is possible. i am asking about a particular way to solve the given problem, not an entirely different solution that would require me to rework large systems that depend on this

[fervent spire]

Yeah I think that should work. Assuming you have the belt capacity to make the 1:5 work without hitting the limit on the loopback

[limpid vapor]

i will give it a shot, the input belts are far, far below the capacity

150 in for a mk5 belt, at least thats the required amount anyway

[unique cypress]

Depends how filled the input belts are

[limpid vapor]

its offloaded from a train, so full

[unique cypress]

Then a bottlenecked balancer won't work

[limpid vapor]

son of a bitch 😄

[meager kettle]

if you make a overflow merge system for 4 belts to create a 5th. it should self balance after some time

[unique cypress]

Each output belt will only be 1/6th full, not 1/5th

[unique cypress]

A non bottlenecked design is literally 1 splitter and 1 merger more

[frosty owl]

*son of a train

[wind spade]

which doesn't make it locked in 🤷 you can always change existing system, especially if it's under construction

and clocking doesn't change it much tbh

[limpid vapor]

it does, its not under construction, this is the underbelly of the building

an adapter piece in the basement

[wind spade]

the clocking change is just "remove two machines and change clock speed"

[frosty owl]

I'm not sure why you're insisting so much over this, but I reckon they have a pretty good idea of how simple it would be (or not) to change things in their factory...

You know, knowing all their preferences and design choices and constraints...

[limpid vapor]

yeah, no, its not as simple as removing two machines and changing clock speeds, the placement and design of everything surrounding this is fairly intentional, i am not going to redesign everything for it

so, this?

[fervent spire]

Yeah it's honestly pretty frustrating sometimes to ask something here and have multiple people answer "just clock things differently" especially when doing that would require reclocking multiple stages of the factory. It's not a useful answer - I would prefer if people actually engage with the question I have rather than the solution they think I should have gone with from the start.

Couple weeks back I had that happen when I was asking about belt compressors with bursty inputs - finally someone actually gave me a relevant answer and it turned out I learned a lot about buffering inputs, priority mergers, and how things change with bursty items! It was great! And way more interesting than "redo your entire downstream factory to take inputs at whatever weird decimal rate of ingots you ended up producing"

[frosty owl]

Don't get me started on back when I still asked for help about sushi

[fervent spire]

It's a sandbox. There are use cases for balancers, compressors, etc. Even if the use case is "I want to make one". But there's this weird insistence of manifolds are the only solution, just clock your machines to weird numbers until they work out, etc. And it's so weird to me. Like especially in here when someone comes in with a specific math question, maybe actually engage with the question and not say "do it differently"?

[limpid vapor]

i can understand nudging people towards manifolds for simple things like rows of machines that are not really tied to anything more complex, alas, not everything is so simple

the problem is that for my use case manifolds simply dont do it

[fervent spire]

Yeah I don't have a problem with suggesting manifolds or clocking, but doubling down when someone says they have a specific use case or a reason for doing it that way just ain't it.
If I was suggested a manifold when asking about a balancer when I didn't know what a manifold was or had a simpler use case I'd have accepted it with open arms.
But when I knew the options and had reasons for not wanting to reclock or build a bunch of decimal-input blocks of machines, even if they're reasons you might disagree with, it gets really frustrating.

[meager kettle]

tbf in a lot of cases the balancers arent really needed. splitters will self balance overtime if you need to send like 200 one way and 300 the other

[outer vale]

it can be hard to tell if "I can't/don't want to do that" is an actual thing or just not knowing it can be done (which it usually can without too much trouble)

[meager kettle]

balancers can be fun to build as a project tho, but they aint easy to explain

especially largers ones, like 8 to 10

since you need to split all 8 into 10s then merge the 80 into 10

how do you explain how to build that thru text in a chatroom?

especially to someone not very experienced in the game

[unique cypress]

A balancer is not gonna do that either
It'll send 250 each way initially

[meager kettle]

? with a balancer you just divvy up the 250 split into 50s and send one of the 50s to the other side to merge with the other 250.

[unique cypress]

Then that's not a balancer

Balancers have equal priority outputs (and inputs)

Which means unless one output is blocked or bottlenecked by something downstream, it splits equally

[meager kettle]

its usually what people ask tho, to balance a split in the way they want it. seen it many times

they dont know the established terminology

its same with "mega factory" to most players its just a big factory, not everything in one place that it means to some

[unique cypress]

Someone calling a ratio splitter a balancer doesn't make it a balancer tho

[oblique hollow]

Where does the notion of Balancer 1 vs Balancer 2 come from

"Balancer is a ratio splitter"
vs
"Balancer balances all in / outputs equally"

Second one seems like the factorio equivalent tbh

[unique cypress]

Second one is the factorio definition, yes

I have never seen the first one being used like this until like a year or 2 ago

[outer vale]

should call it an unbalancer

[wind spade]

point wasn't doubling down on a solution
point wasn't "I can't do that solution" just isn't true, hence why I clarified. Personal reasons to not do something are fine but it's always possible and almost never requires a full rebuild (again, unless personal reasons are involved)
since they didn't state their personal reasons before and instead just said "can't", I replied with describing how they can

[outer vale]

i prefer "perfect splitting" but that doesn't quite roll off the tongue (keyboard?)

[unique cypress]

That's what I used to call it a few years ago, yeah

Didn't have a name

Still really doesn't

[limpid vapor]

if i say i cant do something, i say that with reasons, just because i dont explicitly state those reasons doesnt mean they dont exist, i dont need to justify myself to ask for input

[wind spade]

95% of people in this server that reply with "can't" actually mean "I don't know of a way to do it" 🤷

[fervent spire]

Yeah, I think that's still on the side of not engaging with the question being asked on its own terms, and that's kinda the approach I take issue with

I'd rather we actually answer the question and THEN say "hey. Maybe you can also do it this way"

[limpid vapor]

no, you doubled down even after i stated my reasoning

[wind spade]

you stated you can't because you'd have to rebuild
I said you can do it without rebuilds
you said you'd want to anyway due to artistic or whatever reason
I stopped

don't see any doubling down

[ionic sapphire]

"dont want to" is also often disguised as "cant"

[wind spade]

exactly

[limpid vapor]

its not disguised, i expect people to understand what the word "cant" means based on context, this isnt a unique situation for such usage - in this context, yes, obviously it means "dont want to", i really didnt think that needed to be spelled out

[wind spade]

hard to guess context from a single "can't" lol

[ionic sapphire]

this type of game attracts weird people who cant easily make out context

[wind spade]

i really didnt think that needed to be spelled out
so instead of typing 8 more characters, you had long discussion 🙂

[wind spade]

or people that confuse "context" with "how did you not read my mind"

[limpid vapor]

no lol its not that deep

[tall vale]

Wait is turbofuel better to put into fuel gens that fuel?

[outer vale]

in the sense that it lasts longer, yes

[limpid vapor]

yes, even better is rocket fuel xd

[tall vale]

How?

[limpid vapor]

higher energy density so longer burn time

[outer vale]

though you also need to make said fuels, which grow in complexity and power cost (lol ionised)

[limpid vapor]

more power per volume

[mint coral]

each fuel has a diffrent burn rate, So you get the same amount of energy but for less of the fuel

for example fuel has a burnrate of 20/min while rocket fuel has a burnrate of 4.1666 a minute

[limpid vapor]

its looking pretty good

[wind spade]

"better" depends on what do you mean
one unit of turbofuel has more energy than one unit of fuel, yeah
but also one unit of turbofuel may be more expensive to make than one unit of fuel (based on your preferences and valuation of resources)

same goes for rocket fuel

[mint coral]

'mmmm sexy belts. That floor is looking like Lulu from ffx

[tall vale]

But if i produce 2240 fuel/m, and from that i make 1866.67 trubo fuel /m, does it make more power?

[limpid vapor]

its pretty chonky

[oblique hollow]

Do the math.

Fuel burns at 20/min
Turbo at 7.5/min

[wind spade]

one unit of turbofuel is 2000 MJ, one unit of fuel is 750 MJ

[outer vale]

minus whatever it costs to actually make the turbofuel from the fuel (which is probably still a gain, but you can never be too sure, again lol ionised)

[vast jungle]

Rocketfuel also has the advantage of being a gas... that simplifies a few things

[tall vale]

2240 fuel = 1680000 MJ
1866.67 turbo = 3733340 MJ

turbo is almost double power

[wind spade]

well, if you ignore cost of processing and the fact that coal also has energy and can be burned

(as does compacted coal)

[mint coral]

you gotta do the math and decide how you weigh the resources that you are inputting. Yes there is a gain of energy for turbo fuel but how do you weigh those resources. are you going to need them for projects?

[tall vale]

And ignore the fact that i need 167 refeneries, 60 assemblers and 76 packagers for it the it is worth

[limpid vapor]

would it be fun? if yes, its worth it

[wind spade]

"worth", as always, is very much subjective

[tall vale]

Im dedicating one spot with all these resources in place

[mint coral]

@tall vale for me I'll take the energy gain everytime. I am not a player who plans on using 100% of any given resource. I play for fun and i am past my big numbers phase

[tall vale]

Would it be fun? No, do i want to be a good pioneer? Also no, does ADA force me to do this? Absolutely yes

[limpid vapor]

reason enough

[tall vale]

I dont like big numbers too, but big power nombers is a big YEAAAHHHHH

[limpid vapor]

low effort big power number go brr

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=leUMrfdIc1EzLlOxlIQk

[tall vale]

High effort High power is goood

but the damn amount of sulfur and coal is INSANE

[unique cypress]

this is not even close to high effort lol

[limpid vapor]

high effort for that return xd

[unique cypress]

also true

[tall vale]

Like i mean the resources are possible

[unique cypress]

that's a better place for rocket fuel

[limpid vapor]

where i make mine

and lots of others too

[mint coral]

this is the advanced fuel loaction of choice

[tall vale]

then where do i make turbo fuel?

if this is for rocket fuel?

[unique cypress]

I wouldn't make turbo in the first place

[tall vale]

so you saying that i should jump to rocket fuel ?

[mint coral]

most of us skip Turbo. That beng said there is nothing wrong with turbo. Its a great thing to build at least once as you gain much experience

[tall vale]

Like this is my first play

i dont even have oil set up normaly

i have 4 refineries pumping plubber and thats it

[unique cypress]

if you have plenty of fuel power already, sure
otherwise I'd just make fuel

[mint coral]

Most of use have very much removed from the new player experience. I say go for it. Its fun and the gains are real

[wind spade]

one of the reason I often recommend to not deal with the TF line

[tall vale]

i can not make rocket fuel since i dont have blenders unlocked

[mint coral]

start with Regular fuel if you havent done that.

you need it reegardless ^_^

[tall vale]

im making turbo instead

[tall vale]

ik

But where the hell do i fit these

ima need to build the millennium falcon to store all those machenes

[limpid vapor]

build vertically my guy

[wind spade]

the map is huge 🙂

[limpid vapor]

multiple floors

[tall vale]

I know that

i have 5 floor factories built before oil

one took me like 40 hours to build

[wind spade]

even if you built all that flat, it would take very small space compared to map size

[tall vale]

yes

[unique cypress]

yeah I build everything flat and this wouldn't take much space at all

[tall vale]

i build everything verticaly, my world is full of skyscrapers

[mint coral]

this is a beefy project for a first playthrough. I commend your high goal

[tall vale]

This was a beefy too

its full logistics underground

with lights and walkways

[viscid estuary]

what do you guys think of my new project

i want to make circuits from oil since i got plenty of oil

[mint coral]

resonable.

My first 1.0 playthrough i did the same. Making all my Computer tech at my oil source

[tall vale]

Is it a good idea to make tons of plastic and rubber and transport them with trains to other factories?

[viscid estuary]

this is exactly why i want to make circuits out of oil

to avoid transporting so much plastic and then needing to source new copper for the circuits i make them 100% from oil

and computers won't be

train network better then conveyors

[viscid estuary]

if i do it the normal way not only is the oil saving tiny but i need to source copper and water which is annoying

[tall vale]

wait i might make this too

[mint coral]

I dont know about good or bad, but i think that is the most common way

[viscid estuary]

you mean this? 100% oil circuits

[tall vale]

Do i place this much machenes or do i overclock them?

[viscid estuary]

you create plastic and rubber based on demand

[tall vale]

yes

[viscid estuary]

i recomand you do it you skip needing water and copper and the oil demand is only slightly higher

[tall vale]

i just have 560 polymer/min lying around after my HUGE 840 oil/min factory

[viscid estuary]

uhh then you should go the normal route

[wind spade]

I'd recommend to stop asking us how you should play your own save 😛

[mint coral]

up to you my man, I generaly OC my generators

[viscid estuary]

to use the polymers you should go the normal route

[tall vale]

I do, but i just want to make my factory AS EFFICENT as possible

[viscid estuary]

lol

i don't do that i just make projects that work

[wind spade]

"efficiency" can have infinite meanings

pick your own and optimise for that

[tall vale]

alr

ima deoptimize then XDD

Double all the machenes and underclock them :)

[viscid estuary]

i first started using 300 oil a minute for 10gw of power and 200 polymers that i am using for 40 plastic and 40 rubber to my cloud storage

[viscid estuary]

just 100% clock and slightly overbuild

if you need 7.66 you build 8 100% clock machines

so they can buffer some stuff

[tall vale]

im going straight big buissness, 840 oil/min to 1866.67 turbo fuel / min

[viscid estuary]

good for you stay away from diluted fuel if you don't want headaches with packing and unpacking

[tall vale]

Im building my factory in the same spot :)

[tall vale]

How do you think im getting triple turbo fuel? DILUTED PACKAGED FUEL XD

[unique cypress]

having headaches with it is a skill issue XD

[wind spade]

what headaches? you just blueprint a small loop with canisters and never have to deal with it

[viscid estuary]

well headaches from user error

[wind spade]

that's not specific to DPF tho?

[tall vale]

say small blueprint with 38 packagers for water, 38 unpackagers for fuel

[wind spade]

no, one of each

[mint coral]

I have a headache. But that is because i have a swollen brain

[tall vale]

I like making it like in sectors: Big packagin, all packaged water to refineries, then unpackager sector

[unique cypress]

that's a horrible idea

[wind spade]

yeah, but you make a blueprint with one refinery, one packager, one unpackager, loop the belt around it and spam that

[tall vale]

my brain is horrbile for wanting to do that

[tall vale]

Im going efficent machenes the unefficent way

[viscid estuary]

i just first needed something that runs well so that's why i started small

10gw is much better the 900mw of coal power

[wind spade]

yeah, this is 13 blueprints (and one more at 33.3333%)

[mint coral]

I had this convo yesterday here is my thoughts and ratios and links to a prior convo there as well

#math-and-meta message

[viscid estuary]

and everything is rounded up to be able to buffer fuel and water 14 fuel maker 8 water extractors 14 packagers

i don't underclock one of them

[wind spade]

well if you have 300 oil input, you won't make more anyway

[viscid estuary]

its more

[wind spade]

so there's no "buffering"

it's not more if all the input you have is 300 oil 🙂

you cannot make more fuel than 800 out of 300 oil

[viscid estuary]

i just said i got more then 300 oil

and only 80 generators so i am buffering fuel heavy oil water and crude oil

[wind spade]

then why do you plan with 300 oil and not with the actual amount? 😛

[viscid estuary]

yes

[wind spade]

why

[viscid estuary]

i planed for 300 oil and rounded up the machines to 14 instead of 13.333

i would need to overclock the heavy oil stage to make more fuel but i don't need to

[wind spade]

buffering fluids is kinda a bad™ idea anyway

but if you only have 10 HOR refineries, you don't make more fuel

[viscid estuary]

lacking fluids is a bad idea as well

[wind spade]

that's why you don't buffer and make exact amount

[mint coral]

Fun fact you can Sloop the Diluted packaged fuel and get double the packaged fuel output then youll have bonus containers when they are unpacked filling the loops until they stall out. then remove the sloop and a stack of packages from the machines and use them to kick start another cluster

[unique cypress]

not really

having a machine running at 33% uptime is no issue

[wind spade]

you don't put container buffers on your belts either

fluids are no different

[viscid estuary]

what about having them start stop

[wind spade]

how does that matter?

[unique cypress]

like I said, no issue

[viscid estuary]

so either way it works

rounding up and buffering fluids

[wind spade]

if you are bothered by it, you clock them
if you aren't bothered by it, it's not an issue

[viscid estuary]

exactly why i rounded up and did not underclock

[tall vale]

wait is there any way to specificaly get diluted packaged fuel or i just scan drives and hope for it?

[unique cypress]

it's just from a drive

[wind spade]

yeah but rounding up one step doesn't make you buffer fluids or make more

[tall vale]

So just scan and hope?

[viscid estuary]

don't imedetially scan every drive collect a bunch and then chose the best recipe from every drive

[unique cypress]

make sure you have oil processing milestone unlocked and eventually you'll get it

[wind spade]

or scan them immediately and get more drives

[mint coral]

I usually dont proceed to the next phase until i get all the recipes that i can in the phase im on. I like having all the tools

[viscid estuary]

you actually do end up buffering fluids as well if you make mistakes during constructions heavy oil can buffer more then its produced so when you reconned the fuel unpackgers the diluted fuel stage instead of running at 13.33 it runs at 14 machines and you can buffer fuel

all my fuel pipes are full even tho i am burning 100% of the fuel

[tall vale]

I got what i need from my first drive (HOR)

[viscid estuary]

and heavy oil is holding constant level because fuel is being burned

[mint coral]

most ppl say that recipe is required to play the game lol

[viscid estuary]

it is lol

HOR and diluted fuel is the perfect first power plant i get 40 plastic and 40 rubber for my cloud storage

[ionic sapphire]

if it was missing the game wouldnt start

[outer vale]

it's not required of course, but people do tend to highly value recipes that just give more output for the same input regardless of any other considerations (power, space, complexity)

see also: solid steel, recycled plubber

everyone's got their own power needs, you could probably get away with just using coal if you really tried lol

[viscid estuary]

i wanted to stop using coal to save it for future steel expantion

[vapid gorge]

there is so much coal on the map that is not an issue

[wind spade]

there's so much [everything] on the map

[vast jungle]

if you lack coal for steel, first look building more Refineries for Pure Iron 😄

[outer vale]

that doesn't help with coal at all though

[vapid gorge]

that... really isn't the easiest first step, but sure

[meager kettle]

how do you lack coal. theres so much all over :o

[vast jungle]

you will quickly get to the conclusion "I already have enough, not worth the effort" (after a few hundred refineries)

[outer vale]

pure iron helps with the iron part, but how does it affect the coal 😅

[vast jungle]

easy way to make people not wanting more steel? 😄

its just a deterrent... "I need more X the map has not enough... sees rows of Refineries maybe I should reconsider!"

(sorry, being a bit silly today... not enough sleep)

[mint coral]

pure iron, iron pipe, recipes are just tools, we choose the ones we like or think is best in the situation.

Personally i have refinery burnout so i avoid refineries where posiible

[vast jungle]

for me is was Fuel Generator burnout... finished the powerplant, did abandon the playthrough before the factory it was meant to power was done

[mint coral]

I understand that, For some reason i can think of ways to decorate generators and make them look diffrent. But when it comes to refineries i go blank

[vast jungle]

I had the idea to turn the generators in my RF powerplant into a giant "flower" with lots of 2x2 groups of generators floating along twigs... but it didn't looked that good when I finished the first layer... and I needed 3 layers... so after it ran (150 GW?) I wasn't motivated anymore to continue

[mint coral]

i get that completely.

my past fuel project was a barge

#design-and-architecture message

[vast jungle]

nice work!

[mint coral]

im not Super happy with it, but im at the point if i never touch it again it wont bother me

I currently planning out my nuclear facility. its my first nuclear reactor project so im taking it slow and simple

[vast jungle]

this one was mine... I regretted finishing it #design-and-architecture message

[mint coral]

yes, i remember this

[zenith lark]

anyone have a chart which shows which components are used to make other components in an order?

[vast jungle]

there is no absolute order of components in SF... later production systems have byproducts or even depend on certain products run in circles

[long bridge]

@meager kettle In your nuclear factory, do you use SAM to convert to bauxite/copper? i was looking at tools and it is using the maximum SAM i give it because its trying to convert

maybe part of that is because i disabled synthetic shard recipe since i cant handle that byproduct?

[meager kettle]

no, only used sam for DMR and ficsite

[long bridge]

alright, and you used something like 3k aluminum for it then? since you said you slooped ingots

[meager kettle]

theres more than enough bauxite and copper to do it without conversions

[long bridge]

im using sloppy electrode pure so its 1:1, if it only requires 3k then im fine, 6k wouldve been a stretch

[meager kettle]

i think i used 7 belts of 600 each, so 4200 ingots. But i overproduced some for building and end game stuff

[long bridge]

but slooping ingots, its only like 3k alum, so its nbd

overproduced what?

the ficsite?

[meager kettle]

trigons

i didnt sloop all the converters

[long bridge]

okay, and you said converters take 2 each?

[meager kettle]

yea

[long bridge]

are converters like particle accelerators where i shouldnt 250% sloop?

[meager kettle]

why shouldnt you 250% particle accelerators?

[long bridge]

power reasons

itll be fine when this is running, but im... struggling with power rn

i think im using like 70GW of 80GW and my max cons are over 90, not sure where those 20GW of offline machines are though

[meager kettle]

do what ya want, more converters would be more sloops tho

[long bridge]

i just didnt know if converters had WILD power draw

[meager kettle]

they cap at like 400mw, x3.34 at 250% and times whatever sloop does

maybe 5gw?

[long bridge]

yeah my number was wrong

i stayed up too late playing satisfactory last night

[shrewd whale]

Converters can get pretty wild but not as bad as quantum encoders

[long bridge]

lovely...

on the bright side, i can leave them turned off while the uranium and plutonium build up... right?

[meager kettle]

yea

[long bridge]

do you guys max OC the nuclear reactors and give them a full 600 pipe of water

to save space^

theres going to be so much water needed ;-;

[meager kettle]

i do a OC to make a nice number to build

[long bridge]

i almost wonder if i should make the rod production away from the reactors

[vast jungle]

you could also overclock the water extractors 😄

[long bridge]

yes, the water will absolutely be OC, i aint building 5 extractors per generator 😨

[meager kettle]

like 50.4 uranium rods would go into 100.8 at full overclock, but i think 120 is a nicer number, so i'd clock em to 210%

cuz i could build 4 rows of 30 then

[long bridge]

fair enough, and that would also reduce on 600/min pipes potentially being issues?

(if you have long runs for the water)

[meager kettle]

yea

[unique cypress]

that's a bad idea in general

[long bridge]

as a building question, do you normally burn the rods where you make them? or do you transport rods

[unique cypress]

build reactors on/above water

[meager kettle]

its more pipes to build, but when you're build 100 pipes, whats another 20?

[long bridge]

i agree Neko, 120 is a much nicer number than 100.8 lol

[meager kettle]

and you can use pipes as decoration too

like this proof of concept. just need to be yes amounts larger

[long bridge]

do you have your pipes encased?

and can all the extractors fit in there?

oh i see, that is floating, the extractors go under

shoot i dont know if ill have enough nitrogen for this and the rf plant...

[meager kettle]

nuclear barely need any

like 1100 nitrogen?, something like that

[long bridge]

okay.. it was drawing over 5k on nitric acid

[meager kettle]

oh wait

yes its 1008 nitric acid, so 4x that in gas

guess pressure cubes need some too

[long bridge]

yeah thats a lot e.e

[vast jungle]

there is 12k of nitrogen on the map, so its not that bad

[long bridge]

@meager kettle how did you get it down to 4k ish SAM? even slooping all ingots i cant get it undder 6k

[meager kettle]

4k? its 6k for ficsite

could halve it by slooping the reanimated sam i spose or the trigons themselves, but expensive

[long bridge]

yeah okay. i thought you said before you had around 6k sam leftover for other things

[meager kettle]

its 4k left

[long bridge]

also. without converting for nitrogen gas, ill have to sloop some nitric acid, because i only have 4950 available on the map

and thats not enough

[meager kettle]

using some random map?

should have 12000 nitrogen

[vast jungle]

don't random map just randomize placement, not amount of material?

[long bridge]

no its not random

im using the other, actually i forgot i had around 100 excess nitric acid somewhere else that i should be able to use here

[meager kettle]

yea, but it can randomize a node thats normally pure to one which is normally impure, so you can end up with some discrepancies

[long bridge]

(for fmf factory)

i already have a 40 fmf/min factory 😠

i finished it last night, and i was so happy. I didnt realize I now need to make another 45/min

(just for the nuclear) DeafBringer is going to go mad when he finds out

[meager kettle]

if you already making the pressure cubes, then you just need like 4000 and change for the nitric acid

[long bridge]

erm. those presesure cubes have other plans

crap. I may want to just OC sloop the fmf blenders

that wont get me quite enough, but should help...

there is 13.33 heat fused frame. If i do 5 at 250% and sloop. thatll give me 37.5 extra to go to the nuclear plant

thats another 20 sloops though...

[meager kettle]

could also like not use instant cells for plutonium :p

[long bridge]

dont i need that though

[meager kettle]

depends how you define need i spose

[long bridge]

production not possible if i do that

ill just sloop them.. converters are 2 sloops? or 4?

[swift fulcrum]

if your doing a full nuclear build, you should use powershards for the excited matter, rather than sam, in my full nuclear build, i make 50.4 uranium cells, 18.9 plutonium an 94.5 ficsonium, im only using 5k sam after slooping an that for trigons

[long bridge]

it also depends on how much you sloop though

[swift fulcrum]

sloop every reanimated sam 😄

[meager kettle]

you have two options for plutonium, either go pellet route which makes a few less rods or instant cells which make more

[long bridge]

i could do it with like under 2k sam if i sloop reanimated trigs and ingots

[meager kettle]

diffrence is like 18.9 rods vs 22.4

which tbf is 87.500mw

[swift fulcrum]

yeah you could tbf thats when it gets spenny with sloops

[long bridge]

okay. Neko. i decided that ill sloops my other FMF factory. this should give me 37.5 fmf/min that i can pull to the nuclear factory. GREATLY reducing the ammount of nitric acid i need

[long bridge]

yeah.. and im not going to spawn in sloops

i know some people do, and maybe i will on the next playthrough where im going to do like the multipliers and random map

[long bridge]

im also going to sloop all 10 converters

[mint coral]

Youll likely get bonus sloops when 1.2 goes live anyways :p

[long bridge]

tbh this world may be done by the time 1.2 is live?

depends how long this nuclear build takes

[mint coral]

I won't be. Ill likely be coming back from my summer busy season at work.

[swift fulcrum]

are you both also doing full 2100 uranium builds?

[long bridge]

shit i just realized ill likely start working in 1.5 months.. so maybe not..

[long bridge]

yes

[meager kettle]

well its down to you how you wanna play. my save is fucked on the sloop side thanks to the uploader bug. but some players wanna do it "legit" and others dont care. its just up to you how you wanna do it. Doesnt affect anyone else, just you.

[swift fulcrum]

curious what your total numbers are, mind if i dm you?

[long bridge]

okay so far ill be using around 40 sloops

[mint coral]

Neko and Dylan is but I am not.

[long bridge]

i dont mind if you dm, but all of it is in this channel 🙂

[swift fulcrum]

yeah dm i can posy ss here

[long bridge]

im trying to work out the numbers rn (hence why im bugging neky) 🙂

[swift fulcrum]

hers my numbers

only sam is slooped atm

[meager kettle]

i've done the build. current save is an all pure random world. so kinda up in arms what i'll end up doing with 6000 uranium :p

[long bridge]

holy

[swift fulcrum]

im using extra limestone to sink some excess water

[long bridge]

just build 20k ISC for waste

[long bridge]

yeah i havent figured out what i want to do with the waste water... gonna be gross

Neko you said you only bring in around 4k aluminum? even with slooping all ficsite ingots there isnt enough for something

[meager kettle]

something?

[long bridge]

are you slooping anything other than the ingots? (im also bringing in most of the FMF so i should be using less ingots)?

it says i need three thousand alumium sheets for superposition osc

[meager kettle]

wat

[meager kettle]

well i did not do that, wtf

[long bridge]

are you using synthetic shard recipe for dmr?

[meager kettle]

i probably slooped some reanimated same for DMR, honestly can't recall. i had so many extra sloops which had respawned

[long bridge]

because this is literally only making superposition for the dmr

[swift fulcrum]

you also use less aluminium if you use power shards instead of ocilators

[meager kettle]

power shards can't be sunk

[long bridge]

but then you have buildup of shards

[meager kettle]

and cost a lot of dark matter crystals

[long bridge]

and your screwed when your storage runs out. you have to try and figure out how to jump start your entire system

[unique cypress]

you can turn them into ion fuel kekw

[swift fulcrum]

use the power shards to make ionised fuel

[mint coral]

Just make ionized fuel out of the shards. Easy peasy

[long bridge]

i wish that we had more advanced logistic monitoring

im kinda low on crude..

[long bridge]

i think i have 3k crude total left.

yeah the oscillators is going to be.. bad it needs over 200 converters of time crystals ;-;

[swift fulcrum]

to burn 415 power shards im using 1.6k crude

[long bridge]

well i need a chunk of the crude for the factory itself

i might need to remove some of my plastic/rubber factory to bring in more crude

[swift fulcrum]

are you using all the crude oil wells as well as the normal nodes?

[long bridge]

yea

well, the ones not being used yet are already planned

(blue crater is going to make the rest of the power to get me to 2tw from nitro rocket

oh geez, using power shards cost even more time crystals

[swift fulcrum]

Yeah but it’s just coal.

[long bridge]

back to running out of nitric

[long bridge]

uh, its using turbo diamonds

so not just coal

[swift fulcrum]

You can make it without turbo fuel tho you just use more coal

[long bridge]

if i dont do turbo diamonds it wants to use all 40k coal in the world

well. 20k into cloudy diamonds 11k into standard diamond and 10k into pink diamonds

[swift fulcrum]

What else do you plan to use coal for?

There’s 54k of it I think

[frosty owl]

Powershards being (arguably) harder to process for sinking than Nuclear Waste is such a meme

[long bridge]

well i need time crystals and power shard production still

and whatever else in t9 that needs it

okay also, even with turbo diamonds, its still using 32k coal/min for the diamonds

(and coal in other places so its still close to 40k/min)

without slooping

[swift fulcrum]

Maybe get the all pure mod 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[long bridge]

i could sloop the diamond accelerators...

are accelerators 4 each or 8 each

thats gonna be another 30-40 sloops4

already at half of worlds sloops

[swift fulcrum]

That’s also a lot of extra power used

[viral trail]

Question: The potential, is that split between all six nodes or is it per node potential?

[long bridge]

more than half. ts 80/106 sloops in the world

[long bridge]

all nodes

[viral trail]

So two nodes and then a little extra would easily push that amount?

[long bridge]

not too concerned with power, will be generating 2tw by the end of everything. worried bout running out of sloops

[long bridge]

huh?

no, not how that works

[viral trail]

Oh gotcha

[long bridge]

each node maxes out at 300 i think for pure 150 for normal

but the total of all the nodes is set by the pressurizer

does that make sense?

[viral trail]

Ok! Make sense. Thank you. Is it worth it to combine four pipes to enable 600 max pressure? Or go 3 each pipe connected so that I am not working with overflow issues ever?

[viral trail]

Yes! Thank you!

IE like this Dylan?

[long bridge]

yep!

i would recommend not doing 600 untill youre more comfortable with fluids

but you can.

[viral trail]

So 450 each and then valves before each junction and pumps before the valves to give as much head lift as possible?

Thank you again!

[long bridge]

okay. valves are weird and probably not a good idea, you should read the fluids guide

[long bridge]

i cant explain neccesarily why, but a pump acts like a valve and doesnt cause issues

valves dont give any headlift, just limit flow, which you dont want

[viral trail]

Ah gotcha! Good to know. I'll rework it then

[long bridge]

🙂

[long bridge]

if i sloop 10 particle accel at 250% then that reduces coal usage by over 15k

thats a lot of sloops, so maybe i sloop 5

[ionic sapphire]

you can sloop higher than 200% ?

[long bridge]

250% OC

then sloop that

[ionic sapphire]

oc ?

[long bridge]

over clock

if i only slooped 5 of them (at 250% clock speed) then i will use around 32k coal/min

[viral trail]

While I have you - question on my power set up for breakers.

Blue Line is a separate line dedicated to a Master Breaker for all power so I can isolate each other breaker. Red Lines are the isolated lines to individual breakers. Yellow Lines are an example of where I have them isolated to different parts of the network (IE Lights, Individual parts of the factory, etc). Finally Purple line is my question, splitting the connected from A to B to split the circular line hopefully so I can connect everything to the grid but still be able to turn on and off other breakers as needed.

Does this theoretically work the way I imagine it would?

[long bridge]

I think so? you can jsut stick a priority switch on each factory and control it remotely though

just make sure only one power line going into each factory and put that on priority. then everything can be "connected" with the same lines

[viral trail]

I think that tracks. I'll play with it some more and see if I can get that going. Thank you!

[swift fulcrum]

how many sloops that gunna use tho

[long bridge]

in total? 80, but im going to cut down to 60 total, and only slop 5

[swift fulcrum]

I need 95 fully overclocked converters lol

[long bridge]

Im not talking about converters I talking about slooping the particle accelerator for diamonds

I need roughly 12 at 250% max i think(not at comp), if i do 5 at 250 slooped, and then 5 at 100 no sloop, ill cut back by 12k coal

Or something like that

[swift fulcrum]

sloop the final product not the diamonds?

would you not use less?

[long bridge]

I would basically be getting 750 diamonds/min for (a lot) of power

Way more to sloop converters than diamonds

I didnt check the other, should do that

[swift fulcrum]

what you turning the time crstalys into? dark matter crystals?

[long bridge]

okay yes if i sloop dark matter trap it would actually fix my excess power shards and should save me on coal/diamonds

oh no i cant do that, il have dmr backup

[swift fulcrum]

from what stage?

[oblique hollow]

dump the excess into Dark matter crystallization?

[swift fulcrum]

could also use the excess in the ficsonium process

[long bridge]

dmr backup from the ficsonium fuel rod

[swift fulcrum]

send into ficsoinum

[oblique hollow]

yeah just dump it into Crystallization if you have all the Crystals you need already and if Ficsonium (accelerator recipe) is already sated

[swift fulcrum]

use less in the first step^

[long bridge]

slooping singularity cell will save me on other parts

and cost about the same

this will save me a lot of headache, like i wont need to do any more fmf processing

[swift fulcrum]

yeaf fmf are...

[long bridge]

well im already producing 40/min offsite

i was worried about having to do another 45/min

[swift fulcrum]

im only using 20 of em pm in my build, how you using double that

[long bridge]

but if i sloop the offsite one (35/min from the sloops) and then sloop sing cells, then i only need like 34/min from the slooped 35

112 rods?

[swift fulcrum]

oh nah im also using 40 fmf pm i was looking at a diff production lol

[long bridge]

it was 45 but i can cut it back to 35 if i inject 100 sing cells from slooping

[long bridge]

so. the power plant can draw up to 611 GW of power just to run...

actually more than that because that doesnt know im slooping a bunch

i got it all worked out i think. it takes 68/106 of the sloops in the world to run the plant

if i decide to, i might sloop a few extra machines (like singularity cells) to bum those resources for teleporters or something else

[mint coral]

producing 1.4tw?

[long bridge]

its actually going to draw and produce more

its going to draw more because that doesnt factor in the slooped machines

itll probably draw closer to 750 or 800GW if everything is on at once

[mint coral]

i thought i read somewhere that in vanilla the max nuclear output was 1.4tw or around there

[long bridge]

the max CLEAN nuclear is 1.4

BUT there will be a lot of ionized fuel to burn

[mint coral]

you going dirty? storing waste ?

[long bridge]

no

the nuclear power will be around 1.4tw

but the factory (to get rid of the byproduct power shards) is going to be burning around 6300 ionized fuel

[mint coral]

gotcha

[long bridge]

so thats another like 530 GW of power from the ionized 🙂

[mint coral]

how much power will that cost you. I know the positive power output for ionized is low (although you are eating up some of that porduction in yourt nuclear chain)

[long bridge]

uh let me check

its around 70 GW to add on the ionized part

which (when burning the ionized) generates an extra 520GW

and it removes the byproduct shards

i mean, some of the production chain changes, but im going to do the one that produces/burns ionized

plus itll make like 30 packaged ionized/min for personal use

is it worth power wise to sloop ficsonium rods

oh that would increase dmr, disregard that

was kinda hoping the factory could push to 2tw on its own, but i dont see that happening

[meager kettle]

280gw more, and it becomes self sufficent on dmr, so not bad. but costs a fair amount of sloop

[long bridge]

forgot i can tear down my old diluted fuel power plant after this, goes up and save that 600 crude for something else. but i wont need big rf plant to hit 2tw, this factory by my calculations, will make around 1.9TW and i already have around 100 GW from another plant!

also, saph, i should do proper load balancers for the nuclear rods right?

[meager kettle]

do what ya want

[long bridge]

well i know, but proper splitters are generally recommended for nuclear right?

[meager kettle]

Not sure i could remain sane trying to load balance liek 120 reactors

[long bridge]

lol trye

true

[long bridge]

way more than that though right? because its 120 just for uranium

[meager kettle]

yea, was more per belt

[long bridge]

ah

[meager kettle]

its not hard to do it, just divide by 2 and 3 to get down to 1. but the amount of splitters and belting would just be such a mess

[long bridge]

im thinking 120 uranium, 60 plut and 60 ficsonium

and then clocked accordingly

[meager kettle]

60 plutonium might be a tough sell

[long bridge]

?

why

[meager kettle]

cause you need like 90 at 250% to burn 22.4 rods/min

[long bridge]

oh i mathed wrong

shoot

i may just do 120 - 120 - 60

[swift fulcrum]

why do you need to load balance them? just manifold it?

[meager kettle]

load balancing would just make em turn on faster

[swift fulcrum]

if you make the full 50.4 uranium rods is it not 252 reactors? 100.8 fully overclocked?

[meager kettle]

yes, but i like even numbers, so 120 @210% is my preference

[swift fulcrum]

so go through all the extra effort of load balancing just to save time for the start up?

[meager kettle]

i aint load balancing it

i'll manifold and eat the 5 hour start up

[fervent spire]

Manifolding nuclear fuel means there's a TON of extra nuclear fuel sitting around in the belts and the input buffers, it'll take forever to fill up and you have a ton of wasted fuel sitting there too. But ultimately yes that's why

[unique cypress]

no point imo
it takes like 4-5h with manifolds

irrelevant

[fervent spire]

Tbh the bigger reason to me would be that I don't want all that bonus spicy radiation sitting on the belts 🙃

Can you imagine if that's how nuclear plants were irl

[unique cypress]

also irrelevant imo

[fervent spire]

Oh sure it's not like a functional reason but still

[meager kettle]

theres a max to radiation, so whats a little more?

[swift fulcrum]

Don't get that argument either, you have a hazmat an filters so radiation is irrelevant

[meager kettle]

it would be nice if it was more realism, fuel rods arent particularly radioactive irl

[swift fulcrum]

if you build your uranium fuel rods before you build the power plants then the back up would mitigate the manifold wait time

[swift fulcrum]

considering a real enriched uranium fuel rod can last up to 60 years I dont think theyd use conveyor belts 😉

[meager kettle]

3-5 years, not 60 :p

[swift fulcrum]

thats an non enriched uranium fuel rod

[meager kettle]

oh you mean the ones used in subs and big boats

[swift fulcrum]

I think its just subs atm but the new reactor thats being built in france will use enriched fuel rods

[fervent spire]

Nah you know how they use that super slow truck to transport the space shuttle, do that instead 🙃

[swift fulcrum]

how big is your fuel rod 😜 😂

[fervent spire]

Normal size it's just nice and cozy on the truck with plenty of room for activities 🙂

[solid mortar]

are we allowed to ask questions in here regarding production/conveyer math?

[swift fulcrum]

sure are dude 🙂

[solid mortar]

sweet, does anyone know how im expected to divide my resources from the 6x smelters in this? i only have the mk2 belt so a manifold running into each of the constructors for the screws rods and plates would not be fast enough

sorry if this is kinda simple im pretty new and still trying to figure out how to properly plan the math for this stuff

[mint coral]

I replied to you post in #1038092680493801533

[meager kettle]

do 4 smelters on one belt going into the iron plates. place a splitter (smart if you got it) before the constructors, and put that to a merger merging that with the other two smelters and feed those into the rest making screws and rods

with time it should balance out

[solid mortar]

i see what your saying, but i dont really understand why that will work so i know how to apply that logic in the future, since thats not exact wouldnt that leave me with over/under production?

those 3 smelters will be at 90 a min and only using roughly 80 a min

thats why i thought this would need to be connected by a single manifold so that its all sorted evenly

[meager kettle]

what should happen with setup i describes, is the 120 from four smelters egts split to 60/60, 60 going into the other line from the last two smelters making a 120/min belt going into the ~80/min for screws and rods. because this line is being overfed, it will fill up and saturate forcing that first splitter to instead become 100/20 and the machines making iron plates will start working at 100%

the alternative is making the first splitter from the four smelters be a smart splitter with the overflow going into the other line. so the iron plates will fill up then all excess is pushed onto the line for screws and rods

[swift fulcrum]

here is an idea for you

then all you have to do is underclock/overlcock as needed an manifold your ore

[solid mortar]

ok i will try to see what i can do thank you guys

this game is just very overwhelming if your the type of person who likes to optimize lol, this may not be healthy for me 😂

[swift fulcrum]

you also dont have to do two seperate lines of reinforced iron plate but its up to you

[solid mortar]

sounds good ty!

[swift fulcrum]

example

[meager kettle]

Planners tend to make chain which are a bit over complicated imo. I'd personally just make the iron plates, rods and wire. then make as manu stiched plates i can and frames. then store whats made extra and just use it for building

like instead of making a miner do 96.53/min i'd just leave it at 120 and make all those 120 into 80 iron plates, and whats left i can use to build

and if i got the smart splitter, add that before my storage and sink whats made when storage is full so i get some tickets

[teal tiger]

so since i made the mistake of not calculating how to split the belts properly last time and ended up with a ouput of 8 mk6 belts that only were half full, i will ask u guys this time first

i just finished the 30 refinery step, i have 10 refineries in each row, how would u proceed with the belts now for the 55 foundries?

[tough roost]

is the load and the unload times the same?

[crimson moat]

I have 256 uranium reactors with equal splits 😄

[teal tiger]

visual example

so if id pull it out like that id be getting 3 belts with 650 iron on each, which would be meh

its 40 iron per foundry

[meager kettle]

prob do a belt compressor end up with 11 belts of 1200/min

[manic goblet]

I have something similar. I have 105 reactors at 240%. There is an initial 7-way followed by a 15-way split, which is pretty straight forward. I also rate limited the uranium fuel rods to 50.4/min. They are flown in by drone, so I am restricting the amount that go to the reactors at their exact burn rate. It's nice, as the only hot spot is where the uranium fuel rods are dropped off and the plutonium fuel rods are shipped out.

It's nice being able to stand next to a nuclear plant and have no radiation

[austere wedge]

Hey guys, im currently planning for a big fuel build. I have 1500 crude oil and Im using the diluted fuel recipe and the heavy oil residue recipe. I think I am going to make 5555 rocket fuel, just wondering if this is right?

[meager kettle]

which rocketfuel recipe?

nitro?

[austere wedge]

just the normal one unless theres a better one im not sure

[unique cypress]

well, it is correct for at least 1 recipe chain
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=aJp5iHRowZ6uIOOxlphz

[meager kettle]

well there are options, you can make 4000 fuel with that. but then theres turbo fuel to rocket fuel or go directly with nitro rocket fuel

nitro making 6000 rocket

[austere wedge]

Ohh right okay i didnt know about that recipe

[cunning stump]

the nitro is easier to build, I'm using the standard because of less sulfur use and you can recycle the compacted coal back into the turbo fuel. im currently making 7500 rocket fuel per min

[meager kettle]

each choice has its pros and cons. do which one you fancy

[cunning stump]

exactly

[meager kettle]

theres also the more complex turbo blend fuel route which i believe makes more rocket fuel in the end for less sulfur

but its been awhile since i bothered mathing that out

or maybe it was more rocket fuel for same sulfur but more oil? can't recall

[austere wedge]

Im trying to work out how much rocket fuel i can make rn, I only have 2100 nitrogen gas available as the next nodes are way too far lol

[tough roost]

lol i have a stupid idea of how to get rid of byproduct heavy oil residue by just getting a truck and putting a path to just spin around and reach the station right before it runs out of fuel

[cunning stump]

where are you building?

[austere wedge]

Im building on the far west side of the map

[cunning stump]

if you use the standard recipe you can make 5,250 if you use nitro you can make 4,200

[austere wedge]

think imma use the standard, im still scanning hard drives rn to get the nitro recipe

[meager kettle]

that place is kind of the worst for power :p

[austere wedge]

Is it?? I thought it looked good for rocket fuel as I already have a turbofuel plant in the south east lake part

[cunning stump]

im building my plant in the blue crater lake

[unique cypress]

it's good for fuel power

[meager kettle]

when it comes to rocket fuel kinda. it has the lowest amount of nitrogen nearby compared to the other two

[austere wedge]

Yeah its rlly good for fuel i reckon, i just dont know how id go about upgrading my already existing turbofuel so i thought Id just make a new one

even more power

[cunning stump]

it should be relatively easy to update a turbo fuel plant to rocket fuel

[meager kettle]

just add the blenders, pipe in the nitric acid and turbo fuel and then pipe out the rocket fuel to your existing fuel gens, and build more/clock em up

[cunning stump]

this ^

[meager kettle]

just flush the turbo pipe to the gens before connecting the rocket fuel pipe to it

[austere wedge]

Okok I might actually do that

[meager kettle]

the rocket fuel will automatically replace the turbo fuel inside the gens

[runic topaz]

I am curious how much raw iron and raw limestone I would need on default recipes to create a square around this map of this mk1 blueprint.
And total processed material count

[outer vale]

map dimensions should be on the wiki

[cedar folio]

The math will change drastically depending on where exactly you want your border. So no one can answer that other than to say, "A whole lot"

[cosmic belfry]

@tranquil relic you just have two splitters off your main belt that has 183/min and the belt will naturally have 111/min left on it. as long as the first two belts go to machines that need exactly 36/min

[graceful marsh]

my setup for fuel generators anyone want to point out why it's not receiving fuel properly

[vapid gorge]

first build everything on foundations

[graceful marsh]

I have the exact same setup on 2 other generators and it works fine

[vapid gorge]

second don't have fluid buffers

[graceful marsh]

later

[vapid gorge]

if you don't want wonky fluids you need pipes flat

otherwise accept stuttering systems

[graceful marsh]

shouldn't a pump fix it though?

[vapid gorge]

nope

pumps basically just do headlift

[mighty tusk]

That screenshot is horrible res 😢

[vapid gorge]

cheap silica, pure crystal are 2 that would reduce the quartz

[vapid gorge]

pure caterium
copper alloy
iron alloy

[mighty tusk]

Here is it again looks better

[vapid gorge]

steamed sheets

Oil products are GREAT at padding out resources though

[mighty tusk]

I can get 600 over to the swamp for this pretty easy it seems, bu tools doesnt want to adjust when I add it

[vapid gorge]

what are you trying to do exaclty?

[mighty tusk]

Make those parts lol

[vapid gorge]

... yes but yo usaid 'doesn't want to adjust' , what are you trying to adjust?

[mighty tusk]

I added oil back as a resource I can provide at 600, and tools didnt adjust what it was giving me after I gave it that

[vapid gorge]

share hte actual link pls?

the blue square in the top right

[mighty tusk]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=X5C75ivkCLfWrNTaDtQw

So it added some 0x and -0x converters, kinda weird

[vapid gorge]

yeah ignore hte converters

ok so you hadded a bunch of pure recipes, steamed sheets but none of hte alts that use a bunch of plastic

[mighty tusk]

I just did before I sent that

Whoops on the plastic stuff

Would that jsut be plastic AI limiters?

[vapid gorge]

and a few others https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=xBfloJyAOcXVlX7OmW3b

personally I would swap the iron and copper to alloys since you need so little, you'd only need a few foundries

and Tempered Caterium would also cut the refineries down a lot

[mighty tusk]

holy shit thats crazy what you did

[vapid gorge]

Sometimes you have to force a recipe by unchecking the rest

for example I unchecked Basic Limiter so Plastic Limiter would be forced to use

[mighty tusk]

What would the point of using the alloys be?

[vapid gorge]

if you leave multiple paths open then the program uses it's own personal values for resources which may not match yours

[vapid gorge]

extra ingot output over base, zero refineries

you quickly turn the game into refinery simulator 2026 if you're not careful

[mighty tusk]

Yea the 55 refineries also take up a ton of power

1513 MW if I didnt overclock any

[vapid gorge]

power isn't much of an issue, mostly space and... hugeness

[mighty tusk]

My power is bum right now, working on it though, boutta get 40 fuel gens up hopefully tomororw, my power started shitting the bed so I may need to jumpstart it

[vapid gorge]

this takes half the refs and doesn't use much more in resources https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=cdCGrfxpQOLRmYklmLtI

[mighty tusk]

1000 less MW too

THough I can easily get that back by upping the item/min in this case

[vapid gorge]

imo if you're short on power your real issue is build more power 🙂

power is easy to make and you always want a nice buffer

set up a nice Diluted Fuel power plant or something

it really stretches out oil power with only a bit more processing + water

[mighty tusk]

Thats what I am building right now

Its getting me 300 oil to 800 fuel, just need to make a bunch of containers to prefill my packaging loops

[vapid gorge]

nice 🙂

you could cut the caterium out of that plan you linked pretyt easily too

[mighty tusk]

Speedrunning blenders to get rid of packagers 😢

[vapid gorge]

just make a BP with the loop, poor man's blender

[mighty tusk]

fused quickwire would get rid of a bit and up the copper

Well I can make 88 computers a minute with what you linked if I set it to maximized, but then this build turns into 7500 MW

I could maybe do turbofuel for the generators

600 turbo fuel more power than 800 regular fuel?

[vapid gorge]

caterium circuit boardgets rid of al lthe copper 🙂

you'd need more caterium and iron though

[vapid gorge]

yes, but remember, every step of fuel processing effectively just turns other resources to oil. You can always do more diluted fuel

[mighty tusk]

I could go to 600, and double what I have right now once I get this part finished

just gotta fit 40 fuel generators somewhere

[vapid gorge]

well the compacted coal is more the effort

[mighty tusk]

Heavy mod frames seems like its gonna be worse than that computer parts factory F

[vapid gorge]

theres a few easy recipes that dramatically cut resources down from base

[mighty tusk]

Heavy Encased Frame and Encased Industrial Pipe?

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=45VTIWea7fYwYDfSQix7

plus a few more

[mighty tusk]

I think I had the same thing at one point lol

The only difference was I put pure iron ingot on here

[vapid gorge]

its a choice, but ... so many refineries and iron is everywhere

[mighty tusk]

Steel Rod do anything?

[mighty tusk]

Yea thats my thought as well

[vapid gorge]

very resource efficient rod recipe?

[mighty tusk]

seems like it improves this

[vapid gorge]

and you get the most resource efficient screws out of them

[mighty tusk]

Steel rod -> screws better than steel screws?

[vapid gorge]

you could, I used Steel Frame for simplicity

[vapid gorge]

it's more resource efficient
but I'd go compact over that any day personally. But thats a subjective choice

so steel screw for me

just depends what you care about more

I try to minimize refineries at every turn

[mighty tusk]

Seems like refineries become a royal pain in the ass

[vapid gorge]

it's just that tons of recipes that max out output use them so you quickly build a million of them, and they are huge and ugly and really really hard to make look good

I'd rather take a small hit to output and have a factory 1/10th the size

[mighty tusk]

Is there a good way to tell the throughput of a train over a certain distance, or is it just the longer the distance the more cars

[vapid gorge]

well there's a formula on the wiki

but you can eye ball thigns pretty well

if you know the stack size and total return trip time you can figure it out

like if you're moving 400 parts per min on a platform, and it stacks to 100? that's a maximum of 3200 parts in a car

3200/400 = 8

so if you have a return time of less than 8min you're good

but remember you can never move 2 full belts per platform

usually it's significantly less

[mighty tusk]

That makes sense

[vapid gorge]

usually 1 belt per car is a good eyeballing, though with mk6 belts 1200pm fills up a car FAST , so prob split it between 2 platforms

it is good to time the trip and give yourself a decent buffer though, trains will be slower will full cars and you have to expect some traffic

I'd add at least 10% to the time and then aim for under it

[mighty tusk]

I want to try to use trains to move some of these items around so I dont have belts running everywhere, I get super crazy with putting all my belts on foundations everywhere

[vapid gorge]

I recommend

1. zoop foundations the whole way, helps plan your route and keeps your rails tidy
2. make a blueprint of a train tower you can print on top of the foundations , you can easily connect thigns up that way

[mighty tusk]

Train tower?

[vapid gorge]

a very old and basic example https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1448157102966182049/1448167940225499156/image.png?ex=69cfe93e&is=69ce97be&hm=9d37bfa1b761248032379169beaecc94cde485278460c677cb84b846d681e99c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

train tower - effectively jsut a structure that you clip rails to