math-and-meta

[fervent spire]

If I want to send a bunch of packaged nitrogen gas via drone, how does that work? Do i need 9 stacks of empty canisters to start off, or as many as will fit in the drone port (18 I think?)

[vapid gorge]

there's lots of iron on the map.
It's just a shit ton of work modifying a plan in tools to see different options

[vapid gorge]

just feed it normally and you can send the empties back on the same drone.

you probably want small buffers for each item on both sides though

[fervent spire]

Well yeah but i can't be building the canisters near the gas so I just want to bring a few stacks of them and leave it at that

[vapid gorge]

I'd have have a container of empties at least ready to feed the gas packagers

[main shuttle]

so besides the object limit that can crash the game, are there any other things that'll eventually overwhelm the engine?

[wary fable]

Hey, I am looking forward to build my first nuclear plant in the spire ocean, I will source uranium from dunes node (300/m) + 1-6-1 train. However, I am having troubles calculating. Seems like https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=cRtFinTE3UQCq3gHM2ql using alt recipes, I can make more cells from less source. As I understood from wiki for plutonium fuel rods (which I will use in drones and sink into awesome sink) I should use normal (non-alt) recipes as they use most waste. How how calculate waste and actual uranium fuel rod usage per minute?

[vapid gorge]

wiki tells you how much each rod makes per min of waste

decide on the number of uranium rods you're making
figure out the amount of waste you'll get pm
then input the waste in the planner

[wary fable]

And if I overclock plants?

[vapid gorge]

each rod you burn pm will produce the same amount of waste pm

like everything else, overclocking plants just reduces the number of machines for hte process

[wary fable]

It says 0.2/m, so for 1 fuel rod / minute 50?

[vapid gorge]

ok but if you burn 10 uranium rods per min, it doesn't matter how many machines you use to do it, you'll get the same waste, understand?

[wary fable]

So for 7 uranium fuel rods / minute (I to produce based on that link I posted I use correct recipes?) I would need to handle 350 of waste?

[vapid gorge]

sounds about right!

[somber sedge]

blindly followed valhalan pickle instead of thinking for myself

[vapid gorge]

I have no idea what valhalan pickle is, soz

[somber sedge]

guy on youtube who does satisfactory videos

[vapid gorge]

ah, yeah honestly most yt vids about satisfactory are sub par

except maybe the design ones

[wind spade]

yeah, youtubers are kinda not good source of knowledge

[vapid gorge]

at least not for this game

[wind spade]

somehow they put very low amount of research in their videos (or it seems so)

(also if you're a youtuber that doesn't fall into this category, I apologise in advance, I'm talking more in general)

[brisk urchin]

always so extremely caucious

[vapid gorge]

@long bridge how much of what are you trying to move?

[long bridge]

Well, it will be 3000 / min bauxite ore/min with that station

[vapid gorge]

do you know teh train travel time? including both loading and unloading?

[long bridge]

it needs to be in 3 cars, 1200 1200 600

with both loading and unloading it is right under 4m

[vapid gorge]

ok so at 4 min that'll be 4800 parts pm per car
a car can only hold 32 slots, of ore thats 3200 per trip
you'll need at least 2 trains doing that route

[long bridge]

when you say atleast, is it better to do 3, or can i do 2 without any real issues?

[vapid gorge]

2 should be fine as that'll mean it'll average out to 2400 2400 and 1200 ppm on each car

you won't be able to tell it to wait until full though as the 3rd car will slow you down

[unique cypress]

With that time, you can only get 800/min per wagon

You could make this work with 1 train and 4 wagons if you loaded 750/min into each

[long bridge]

wdym wait untill full?

[long bridge]

not option

[vapid gorge]

there's rules you can set a train. One of them is 'wait until full'
it'll mean it'll wait until full meaning less traffic on the rail and less stops at a platform

[long bridge]

id rather have second train

[long bridge]

is it worth setting that? I thought jsut letting it run was fine..?

[vapid gorge]

it'll likely be fine yes

just pointing it out so you don't use it

[unique cypress]

Wait until full will cause the train to only do 600/min on all wagons

Well, 620 on the 2 that are supposed to do 1200

[vapid gorge]

just send your 2nd train out as the first is delivering it's load, will help keep it even

[long bridge]

i launched the second from drop off while the first is picking up, is this the same thing/okay?

it would seem to me that its fine, but its also 2am

[vapid gorge]

basically teh same

you've got your buffers set up at each end right?

[long bridge]

yes

im not sure how to buffer fluid/gasses but yes

[vapid gorge]

liquids #design-and-architecture message
or #design-and-architecture message

[wind spade]

https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659/1250900438446903306

[vapid gorge]

gas? you package

[long bridge]

have to package gas?

[long bridge]

i thought sapphic said vip was broken

[vapid gorge]

these don't really opperate on the VIP thing.
and vips have always been a bit unreliable and Sapphic always has hot and bad pipe advice

[long bridge]

well im having issues using modified version of your aluminum stuff, i guess i shouldnt call it yours because i changed ratios, but it uses the same idea for fresh/recycled but it keeps breaking

[vapid gorge]

show some overhead shots of what you're doing with what recipes and amount of bauxite you're processing

[long bridge]

can i draw? or do you want ss

[vapid gorge]

SS is much better

photomode makes it easy

[long bridge]

k

600 baux, 180 fresh water. sloppy/electrode

the math has the recycled water production equal to the recycled water needed yet it still ends up backing up sometimes

[vapid gorge]

have you got a ceiling over this ?

[long bridge]

yes

[wind spade]

it's not broken, it's just based on kinda black magic behavior so we do not recommend it much.

and yeah, that user's recommendations are based purely on their experience, so it's always a bit weird (they most likely have unique building style that makes things work/not work in different places than normally)

[long bridge]

much more factory built over this. didnt have issues with the ones belted in, only started having issues with ones on train, but they are not running out of bauxite

[vapid gorge]

I don't suppose you can delete it for now, and take a wide shot with photomode? really hard to tell

[long bridge]

holdon, i can delete one

[vapid gorge]

nah it's ok

I meant the ceiling

is this a unit of machines basically? with scrap machines in front?

[long bridge]

scrap are after, but yes

[vapid gorge]

and you're doing sloppy + electrode?

[long bridge]

yea

i can give you clocking ratios if you want

[vapid gorge]

just give me the total amount of bauxite in this system

[long bridge]

600 bauxite

[vapid gorge]

ok so this should be the clockings

[long bridge]

no they are different

[vapid gorge]

did you connect up the solutions?

[long bridge]

yes

[vapid gorge]

can you tell me all the clockings you've got?

[long bridge]

i did 90 100 110 for sloppy;

directly connected electrode 120 133.3333 146.6667

could it be something as stupid as using mk2 pipes to bring the waste water up to the front but then using mk1 pipes to feed into the machines causing some sort of bottlenecking issue?

[vapid gorge]

how much waste water total is it? I dont remember

[long bridge]

420

[vapid gorge]

ok you've only got the mk1s on the inputs, so whould be fine

double check the outputs arne't mk1?

[long bridge]

output from each machine is mk1 pipe with the main line being mk2

would this cause? problems?

[vapid gorge]

that should still be fine

[long bridge]

it works fine when im watching it, but when i leave and come back its broken.

[vapid gorge]

fly around with your hover pack, look at machine lights and listen for the sound - are any of hte machines stuttering as you fly by/

[long bridge]

the lights dont turn off, no

[vapid gorge]

make sure all your pipes for hte solution are mk2

[long bridge]

the solution need to be mk2?

the solution isnt whats backing up though?

highest solution p/min is 264

[vapid gorge]

anything backing up could cause a problem, if thigns arne't emptying.

are your other sections not working or just this one?

[long bridge]

uh. the whole factory shut down when last i left but the ones that WERE reliable i know why shut down

these are isolated though so shouldnt have been effected

[vapid gorge]

ok so this is the only unit of bauxite refineries that are having this hiccup?

[long bridge]

no

at the time there were 2 others that failed

there output had overflow sinking, so there shouldnt have been an issue there

[vapid gorge]

show me your output pipes?

[long bridge]

output pipes? the solution or the waste water

[vapid gorge]

both

[vapid gorge]

Well I'd probably flatten your waste water outputs so they stay level as a first step

[long bridge]

oh.. goodness, do you really think that would cause such a big issue?

its ... not as simple as flattening, id end up having to redo so much logistics

[vapid gorge]

it might

shouldn't be too bad

[long bridge]

then it clips belts. and not just belts, pipes would go through mergers too

plus there are 20 of these sets

[vapid gorge]

just extend the pipes out a couple m

[long bridge]

and all of the logistics are already in place

[vapid gorge]

try it on one first 🙂

I suppose something else you could try first is put a powered pump here and flush the system. Just in case

[long bridge]

mk1 or 2?

[vapid gorge]

any

I was also looking at your clockings and machines they don't seem to match up totally right

1.466667 x base of scrap would need 264.0006 solution pm
but that needs a clocking of 110.000025%

this should take a LONG time to have serious issues though

[long bridge]

how long is long... i mean i went away for an hour or two

[vapid gorge]

more than an hour

significantly

[long bridge]

also, wtf because i typed in whole numbers everywhere

[vapid gorge]

you said you clocked one of the machines at 146.6667?

[long bridge]

well i gave you the percentage

i typed in the number though

[vapid gorge]

as in the items pm number?

yeah its probably not hte issue, would take ages

try the pump thing, flush the systems. It's the least amount of effort vs potential result

[long bridge]

okay, i wish it would stop working with me here though. atleast i could tell the issue then.

[vapid gorge]

if you can, take off yoru hover pack after you do the fix and just let the game run for an hour as you stand there

[fast cipher]

its the most efficient to make oil products is through this? then diluted packed fuel -> unpack -> recycled rubber/plastic right?

wait thsi exists does this use mixer/blender?

[vapid gorge]

you can do the same later with blenders w/o the packaging step too

[fast cipher]

blenders tier 7/8?

[vapid gorge]

but you can make a poor man's blender at tier 5 with blueprints

[fast cipher]

u mean simply unpackaging and packaging?

[vapid gorge]

yeah 1 refinery and the packager and unpackager in a unit all hooked up

it's simpler making units like this too instead of manifold it.

it's the one system in teh game that manifolds are a little awkward

[fast cipher]

also isnt packaged diluted fuel more efficient since it uses one somer sloop

[vapid gorge]

you can't sloop packagers

[fast cipher]

oh sad

[vapid gorge]

duping items is also dumb so I'm glad

[fast cipher]

right u cant

[fast cipher]

ye u right

u could unpackage and package

didnt think of that

blender uses 2 soomersloop?

i guess i shoudnt worry about it

biome left of desert got more than enough oil
right now running 1 normal plastic and rubber and packaged as byproduct until i get drives for
alternatives

[half geyser]

I mean… it wouldn’t be that big a deal, actually

cuz you can only run a packer so fast

so you can’t dupe at a particularly fast rate

it’s not a very useful item to dupe

and you can achieve the exact same end goal by just tapping into a new oil node

[wind spade]

why even enable duping in the first place

[half geyser]

well of course yeah

but I’m just saying that specific dupe wouldn’t really be thy big a deal

the real dupe issues are when you can dupe particularly valuable things, especially items you can hold in your inventory, and at a very rapid rate

[wind spade]

any dupe is an issue

[half geyser]

with little infrastructure

[river night]

you can just enable creative mode if you wish, its not a competitive game and you can play how you like 🤷

[half geyser]

if all you can dupe is plastic packages and the rate at which you can dupe them is dependent on how much infrastructure you have, this is really not much of an issue

It is an issue for sure but not a particularly concerning one

[wind spade]

not about the packages. It's about making fuel out of nothing

[half geyser]

There is one major difference, you can get achievements with dupes but not with creative

Well I guess two

You can use them on multiplayer worlds you don’t own

[river night]

you can also use SCIM to save edit and get achievements, its not like those really matter to be "safe"

[half geyser]

Ah, yeah, that’s a little worse but once again you can make fuel out of nothing via an oil extractor

If you want to make it effortless, compact the whole fuel production system into a blueprint or two

[wind spade]

that's not nothing, that's using world's resources

[half geyser]

the practical difference is pretty minimal even then

[half geyser]

If you’re maxing out the world’s resources, that’s a different issue, yes

But even then

You’re “using the world’s resources” to dupe

Somersloops are limited, no?

[wind spade]

not maxing world's resources. Maxing local resources

[half geyser]

You can just pipe it across the world 🤷

[wind spade]

no idea why this conversation is even a thing. It doesn't make sense for packagers to be slooped and they aren't possible to sloop 🤷

[half geyser]

This is true

All I’m saying is it wouldn’t actually be that big a deal if they could be slooped

[wind spade]

it would, to the balance of the game

[half geyser]

it would be a worse game, sure, but not by a significant margin, there are plenty of other issues that are higher priority anyway

[half geyser]

it’s still limited though

You can only dupe so much fuel before you run out of Somersloops

[wind spade]

it's placeable anywhere without access to oil

[half geyser]

pipe oil to where it needs to be

[wind spade]

removes the logistical component completely

[half geyser]

the logistical complement is just time spent piping stuff

[river night]

you could drop off a single load of packaged oil and keep duping it, no local oil needed

[wind spade]

yeah, and by duping you remove it

which is my point

[half geyser]

yeah, but the key here is you can’t do this infinitely, you can only set up a finite number of these duping stations before you run out of sloops

[half geyser]

So… it takes less effort is basically what you’re saying?

[wind spade]

I'm not talking about how many times you can do it

I'm talking about it being possible

[half geyser]

In which case, your argument is that there is a floor to how much effort should go into making things for it to be considered legit

Which is fair, I’m not saying it’s incorrect or anything

But that does mean this exists more on a spectrum

Where this form of duping (using limited somersloops)) is just easier than the game-approved form of duping (drilling into a limited oil node)

[wind spade]

there's something called "game balance"
we don't need to throw that away just because "it wouldn't be that much OP" or "you're limited how many times you can cheat it"

[half geyser]

It’s not that it’s an entirely different thing, it’s on the same spectrum with the same fundamental limitations, it’s just beyond a certain point on that spectrum, on the wrong side of a line in the sand between balanced and unbalanced

[half geyser]

Yes

But because it is limited in this way

It would not completely wreck the game

The game would still be perfectly playable and the overall balance would be largely unaffected, especially at scale, all it can really do is make fluids more abundant and skip some accessibility infrastructure requirements

If I gave myself the ability to place like 20 iron nodes wherever I want on the map, the game wouldn’t feel unbalanced

It would be a worse experience, yes, but not significantly so

[river night]

But why tolerate any level of "worse", and the devs didn't as they thought of that, so .. why are we here again

[half geyser]

There is a good reason to tolerate a certain level of worse

Because there are potentially more important things to tackle

Like if there was a bug where every time you opened any storage it had a 1% chance to crash your game, that doesn’t make the game unbalanced, but it’s still a MUCH bigger issue than this particular dupe ever would be

[river night]

but its already done, and never even existed in the first place

[half geyser]

Well yeah

I’m not arguing for it to be reintroduced or anything

This is a more general thing

Just saying that stuff like this could be left in the game while bigger problems are tackled, because there is a certain level of duping that’s simply not problematic enough to be a crisis

I can’t think of any bigger problems the game is currently facing right now though

however, duping definitely can be a crisis, of course

The game used to be winnable in under four hours without a TAS iirc

[river night]

but there is nothing to be left in the game because it never was in the game in the first place, besides that "work on that instead" is a bad argument in a team of many people

[vapid gorge]

really glad I can only see part of this conversation 🍿

[half geyser]

With TAS it was brought down to like a single hour I believe?

[patent blaze]

duping is never serious unless the game is competitive, or if you value the purity of your world

[half geyser]

Oh, yeah, that’s right, you blocked me back when I didn’t immediately and unquestioningly agree with you that the world grid was pointless and a, let’s see, “noob trap”

[half geyser]

Pretty much that too yeah

To some degree it is competitive, though, even in singleplayer, cuz there’s some value in knowing the only way for someone else to match what you made is for them to put in roughly equal effort

Not everyone cares about that though

[viral sparrow]

yeah he does do that lol

[half geyser]

I had a feeling

[patent blaze]

was gonna say, thats if you care about others which you shouldnt, at least in this game

[half geyser]

most people do

I know I somewhat do, it’s not something I can just turn off

[viral sparrow]

idk play how you want but duping is basically by definition a glitch/exploit so it should be patched

[half geyser]

Do I care very much? Not really, but it’s there

[half geyser]

It’s unintended behavior, yeah

[half geyser]

The other issue is that if I know I can skip the effort I’m putting into a world by just duping for a little bit then I’m really demotivated

funny, I have one other mutual server (terraria) with both of you

terraria fans be all over this community huh

[viral sparrow]

apparently so

[quiet wasp]

5.25 GW of coal lol

1050 coal/min

3150 water/min

wanted to get a nice surplus before fuel power, and before i get my massive ingot distribution platform made

i'm gonna need that much power for that many refineries for ingots.

[quiet wasp]

don't you love it when right after posting you notice you were stupid

1080 coal/min

3240 water/min

fixed it lmao i hate myself sometimes

[fast cipher]

propably would be best to keeep packaged fuel as item and unpackage it next to line of fuel burners? also they take "20,000" fuel per minute (dont have them unlocked yet), forgot to power on sink Xd

[limpid vapor]

it doesnt matter where you unpackage it

[fast cipher]

ye but for transport

[limpid vapor]

transport only to burn it anyway?

[fast cipher]

i mean through put

no idea how much they consume

[oblique hollow]

Fuel gens?

[fast cipher]

ye this too

[oblique hollow]

20 m3 / min normal fuel

the game frequently uses liters behind the scenes

20 m3 = 20000 liters

[fast cipher]

ye know

[wind spade]

have the gens where you make the fuel

and why package it in the first place? (unless you're using DPF, in which case you recycle the canisters, so you definitely want to unpackage next to the refineries)

[fast cipher]

ye plan to use dpf.
i wonder if i should transport them as package or fluid.
since generators is huge but ocean is too

and i might overclock generators
since there no downside to doing it

[wind spade]

transport as fluid, or ideally don't transport at all

[fast cipher]

i dont use shards much and i double them

[wind spade]

no reason to package and deal with the canisters

[fast cipher]

i mean i plan like 10 fundations

[fast cipher]

i need to unpackage

[wind spade]

yeah, and as I said above, do so next to the refinery, so that you can recycle the canister for packaging water

ideally in a 1:1:1 modules

[fast cipher]

ye i definitely gonna recyclle

idk what u mean mean by 1:1;1 modules

[wind spade]

1 packager packaging water into 1 refinery making DPF into 1 unpackager

[fast cipher]

i just found out sinking packaged fuel isnt good way to get rid of overflow of it xd

ye right

[wind spade]

good way is to not have overflow 🙂

[fast cipher]

i placed 2 refiniries 1 making plastic and other rubber, with default recipes to just make a bit

i gonna stop packaging fuel there

and burn it all
since i dont use it for jetpack biofuel is so much better

should i use indrustial fluid buffers?

[wind spade]

no, never (unless trains)

[fast cipher]

oh ok

can i ask here about design of such factory or move to design and architecture
i mean more less share image of how i plan to make it (more description since i just started)

[wind spade]

can do any of those I guess

[fast cipher]

so i plan to make in first refinery heavy oil residue, then on second packaged fuel.
i gonna dedicate few to plastic/rubber then diffrent belt which would unpackage it on the left (no platform yet. ) i would place packagers above fuel generator so no pumps.
propably try to move liquids only down, propably only pumps for oil gonna be needed

[wind spade]

what are the mergers/splitters for?

[fast cipher]

its blue print so didnt remove them

gonna build it and propably ask again or something

[fast cipher]

i wonder if i could run plastic rubber on just polymer made through power gens

Also how big is blender compared to refinery

[oblique hollow]

!wikisearch Blender

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Blender

[oblique hollow]

The measurements are on there

[mint coral]

this is what i did yesterday

#math-and-meta message

[minor orchid]

heya guys

i need um some help with fluids

oh hey @oblique hollow can i annoy your ass for a bit with this..?

[oblique hollow]

For a bit, yes

[minor orchid]

so

im gonna import oil via trains

i have a 6 platform station

and theres gonna be:
1x 6 car train
1-2x 3 car
1x 2 car

and now how can i balance all the fluid stations

so no matter which train arrives, all 6 output pipes will work

preferably so their avg rate would be combined input / 6

[oblique hollow]

Thats not gonna happen with the shorter trains.
You wont have a way to meaningfully balance a bunch of pipes into 2 cars

I dont even know your desired input amount

[minor orchid]

so should i maybe just make all trains 6 cars then..?

[mint coral]

completely unrelated, why are you moving oil? can you not just use it where the nodes are?

[minor orchid]

short answer? bcos i want to :P
long answer: i feel like making all factories in the desert

[oblique hollow]

How much flow / min are we movin here

[minor orchid]

is it a horrible idea? maybe

[fast cipher]

Ye it was my kind of plan thought no blender and add power generation.
But now i got idea of naking it through only polymer but per 600 oil its only 75plastiv/m so not really viablr way

[mint coral]

I want to is always the best reply

Respect

[mint coral]

you can replace blender with packaged Diluted fuel just make a BP of two packagers and the refinery as a closed loop.

[fast cipher]

Ye know

Got it running

[minor orchid]

uh
1st outpost: 900

2nd: 2850

3rd: 1800

if it matters were using a mod to halve fluids so im effectively moving half that
but the pipes are halved too in throughput

[fast cipher]

Need to connect recycled plastic/rubber and make line for processing polymer
Also expand it

[mint coral]

i generally hold off on big plubber and run off the power byproducts as long as possible. in this case i got to Radio control units before needing a real supply

[fast cipher]

What u mean

I never played past phase 3 xd

[oblique hollow]

Just aim for around 600/min per car and then you just send the right train with the right size to those outposts.
2 cars for 900
5 to 6 cars for 2850
3 cars for 1800

Then you just feed exactly 600 into each car and do the math with that on the output side too

[minor orchid]

thats exactly what i wanna do

but it doesnt work exactly

900 / 2 is 450

same with the 2850

[oblique hollow]

Yeah and youre gonna deliver 1200

2850 station will get 3000 or 3600

900 station will get 1200

[minor orchid]

wait uh

[mint coral]

well. my first fuel setup generally takes the poly and makes a equal split of plastic and rubber and feeds them into d depots for personal use. the first fuel exapnsion (600 oil in this case) goes towards game goals in this case M engines ( i made plubber free ACU for phase 3)

[minor orchid]

the 900 2850 etc are oil pumping stations

im delivering to a single 6 platform

[oblique hollow]

I thought this was the amount you wanted to unload

[minor orchid]

no those are inputs

and theyre getting unloaded all at the same station

and i wanna balance that

[oblique hollow]

Ok so the 6 platform stop needs.... how much /min in total ?

[minor orchid]

its gonna receive those:
900 in 2 cars
2850 in 6 cars
1800 in 3 cars

[oblique hollow]

Like how much is that factory there gonna guzzle.
5550/min Oil?

[minor orchid]

mhm

[oblique hollow]

That won't work with 6 stops

[minor orchid]

why not?

[oblique hollow]

If you pretend that every station is an oil extractor doing 600/min ish, then you would need like 9 outputs

6 stops would only work with 900/min throughput per platform and that assumes a relatively short train roundtrip time

And thats just not something i can help with as thats too tight of a timing and i cant guarantee you'd get 900 per platform

If you assume 600/min output per station, you need around 9 platforms

[minor orchid]

hm

or should i jsut go the dumb and easy way

and 3 separate stations

[oblique hollow]

That would be about the same as 9 platforms throughout wise

[minor orchid]

could make it so:

1 6 platform for the long train

and a combined 2+3 platform for the short one

[oblique hollow]

Might work. If im not completely wrong on this

[minor orchid]

okay then still a question however
how do i connect those to the machines

[oblique hollow]

But there likely will be some kind of throughput mixing there too for the 2 + 3 platform

[minor orchid]

just a straight pipe like from a jack?

[minor orchid]

no ill make it so theyere separate stations

just inline

[oblique hollow]

Thats something you gotta figure out.

Dont know your factory layout.

All i can say is yes, you assume that the starion is like an oil extractor doing 600/min

You need buffers of course

But otherwise you treat it about the same. Its an oil source

[minor orchid]

like this

missing a 3rd station on the last but gotta go plastik

[oblique hollow]

Yeah that should work i think

[minor orchid]

so just put a big buffer at each output?

[oblique hollow]

One buffer for both outputs if a platform. You use junctions and split each pipe into both ends of a buffer

Can be Industrial buffer here too of course

But this essentially uses one buffer to store 2 pipes

[minor orchid]

wait huhh

[oblique hollow]

See image above

[minor orchid]

if i just make it so each station is 600 throughput

wont a single pipe mk2 into a buffer work?

[oblique hollow]

No

You need both output / input ports

Due to the station lockdown of 27 seconds

[minor orchid]

using a mod that removes this

[oblique hollow]

Im not gonna trust that to work fine

Dont know the mod, dont know how the station acts without the lockdown

[vapid gorge]

it's a very basic and simple mechanic of the train system to work with too

[oblique hollow]

If you wanna do it with one pipe, thats your risk to take. Not gonna stop you

[minor orchid]

dont saay it like im doing something bad 😭

[round moon]

does satisfactorytools refuse to use some alternate recipes for anyone else?
bolted frames for example

[dusky dust]

It's not bad but it does make getting user-to-user support more difficult. We know how to solve a lot of issues in the game, but when you start throwing mods in, who knows what advice is gonna work and what advice isn't?

[minor orchid]

just force it by making it the only avai;able

[round moon]

ah

[dusky dust]

As a whole the server's far from anti-modding, but it's worth knowing that if you are using mods, you're not quite playing the same game as someone on vanilla, and most of the advice we give out is geared towards the vanilla experience

[round moon]

nice

[mint coral]

tools has waited recipes. it thinks some recipes are better then other i think it decides this by input in vs output. if the chosen recipes give you less output then the standard recipe it will use the standard recipe. you can force it by turning off the standard recipe

[round moon]

yeah this uses 10 more iron per minute

[oblique hollow]

You have to disable base because tools views bolted as worse than default (which it is, resource wise)

[wind spade]

it uses recipes based on which path will lead to least resource consumption (weighted resources). If you really want to force it to use a recipe, just uncheck the alternatives

it works differently than other tools, it doesn't just "pick one recipe for each product", hence why you can have multiple enabled (and in many cases it can use both, or even more)

[mint coral]

@old plover ppl cant reply in screenshots.

simple questions can be asked in the relevant channel if you think itll require lots of input #1038092680493801533 is your best bet

[old plover]

yea I also posted in #satisfactory with the link to the message, thanks for the tip 👌

[mint coral]

My first thought is always ideal machines.

I don't know if rail power varies on use?
Hoverpack uses 100mw i think.

Beyond that 🤷

[old plover]

yea long time ago I came with the theory the capacity spike came from trains braking but it's not consistent and I don't remember how I came to that theory, it's probably a dud one

[meager kettle]

Train power varies on use yes

From like -25mw to +150mw depending

[tropic zephyr]

Is it really important for the machines in factories to always operate at 100% efficiency? I know it will reduce the output per minute, but will anything happen?

[mint coral]

my thought is trains parked at locations. Like i have a train that only moves when fully unloaded and has so little output it sits there for a half hour

[old plover]

that would affect power consumption and not capacity though?

[mint coral]

Ya, just that was my thought process for train related power consumption. Not braking as you mentioned

Maybe a ADHD tangent though. you decide

[somber sedge]

is it a smart idea to make this junction using block signals

[old plover]

haha no, thanks for the input. I think it's train related but not sure

[mint coral]

my ADHD rants have been real lately lol.

are ye a old player or post 1.0?

[somber sedge]

also, if i have a fourway, would it be better to do a roundabout instead??

[old plover]

update 3

[old plover]

depends on how many trains and how often they're going to pass through, but this is fine, I have a three way like that

also need to make sure your trains don't need to make U-turns

[somber sedge]

if i remember correctly, there are more than 7 trains that pass thru this junction

this is probably the busy-est junction in my entire world

and some of the trains are like 8 carts long

[old plover]

that's fine

[somber sedge]

the blue train that you see here, its supposed to take the red path, but after i added the fourth entry into this 3way jnction, its now taking the green path. any idea why

is this a problem??

[mint coral]

So old ppl lol
I say u7 for my start. But it's before then. I dont even know how I got the game

[somber sedge]

i started playing since 1.1

[old plover]

u7 still feels far away, the game has changed dramatically with update 8 and 1.0

biggest change was U5 in terms of game vibes I'd say, the game felt completely different (in a good way)

[mint coral]

i know im post beacons lol

[old plover]

trains will use the shortest paths, so it's probably a good thing? why is it SUPPOSED to take the red path?

[mint coral]

this seems fine for a right hand drive system

[old plover]

thank god I hadn't got to nuclear when beacons were removed lol

[somber sedge]

because its the shorter path?

[old plover]

there's no station it stops to to the left? In that case redo your path and block signals

[somber sedge]

there is a station on the left but the blue train has nothing to do with that statioj

if i remove the rails on the left, the blue train takes the red path

[old plover]

and probably redo the intersection. Basically it doesn't register the red path as reservable

also maybe post a screenshot showing the bloc colors by selecting either signal in the build menu

[split fog]

Is this a good starter Fuel Power setup? Five Refineries supplying crude to six Fuel Gens, and sinking the polymer resin.

[somber sedge]

can you show your power graph?

[mint coral]

if it is stable yes

[mint coral]

Little ok, the bottom two rails are the same colour?

[somber sedge]

yes corret

thats one block

[tough viper]

is there any way to get the signal to point in the right direction? of course R but it only changes the side of the signal, not the direction

[oblique hollow]

Look at it from a different angle?

[somber sedge]

click

its placing it on the left rn, click to confirm, then it lets u place on the right

then u can remove the left one

[oblique hollow]

shouldn't scrolling do the trick too?

[somber sedge]

fuck nuclear!!!! this is just a single pure oil node and im only using 25-50% of it

[somber sedge]

yes

try both

im producing 20 rocket props per minute

[tough viper]

that worked, ty!

[dapper heron]

Hello guys!, i've got a question, what's the resource i will most likely use most units per minute at the end game? Copper or Iron?

[tropic zephyr]

What you're doing is harmful to the world; nuclear energy is clean energy :D

[tropic zephyr]

I think it depends on your alternative recipes, but it will probably contain iron.

[dapper heron]

I have all of them lmao went into exploration madness

thanks!

The idea its using the resources from that Pure area of the northem forest

just everything close to it , which is x2 pure cooper node, x4 pure iron nodes, and 1 patch of water that gives me 300 water per minute

So id want to fully max out that local output of ignots

[tropic zephyr]

Hmm, if you have all of them, it will probably be iron because you can get quite a lot of iron ingots from water and iron ore.

[dapper heron]

Alr then!

guess that will do

[tropic zephyr]

By the way, I'm new to this game, so I'm just guessing; I don't know much yet. I'm on my first save and I've only managed to reach stage 3 :D

[dapper heron]

all good i just wanted an opinion from someone else

[tropic zephyr]

Do you think it's important for factories to operate at 100% efficiency? (Here, by efficiency I mean the efficiency rating written inside the machines.)

[dapper heron]

Uhhh i guess?

[tropic zephyr]

Consulting with people might be the best thing about this game; thanks to this, my game knowledge has literally increased a hundredfold.

[dapper heron]

the only important thing is you got your input being the same as your output

or your machines will start to turn off and they take time to turn on back again

which can ruin your chain later on

time to have the most abusive relationship with this patch of waater lmao

[tropic zephyr]

Today, while chatting with people, we talked about trains. I'm still learning about train systems, so a question came to mind: I might not be able to deliver all the necessary items per minute, that's why I asked.

[dapper heron]

In trains and vehicles in general they work by stacks per minute, so just be sure to upload the item with the biggest stack, for example instead of moving the raw ore, process it to plates or something before it gets into the train for more space efficiency

For example moving concrete its Waaaay more efficient than moving iron or so

[mint coral]

Iton

[tropic zephyr]

But people said, for example, that it was illogical to move a screw.

[dapper heron]

i think that's mostly because of the fact thaat there's a recipe that literally gives 100 screws for just moving 1 steel beam

so you would just move steel by drone or truck instead

it just requires 5 per minute and gives 100 screws

[tropic zephyr]

I still haven't been able to come up with a logical logistics system involving trains.

[mint coral]

When changing limestone to concrete is a 3:1 ratio. So for every 3 units of limestone ore you put in you get 1 concrete. Concrete also stacks to 500

[dapper heron]

i mean you could just move conveyors through the entire map lmao

[dapper heron]

this ⏫

the most important thing is stack size and what you're gonna do with it

[tropic zephyr]

So, as I understand it, if I can get a lot of output from an item with a minimum input, it makes sense to send it by train.

[dapper heron]

yes

[dusky dust]

Honestly, trains are just good at doing any material transfer

I had a train route on my 1.0 save whose only job was moving 2/min HMF from A to B

[mint coral]

I personally try to move the most dense items. Why move 24iron ore when you could just move the 1 smart plate it makes

[dusky dust]

The main case where trains don't work well is if the stations are too close; they'd spend too much time docking compared to moving

[tropic zephyr]

I think it's enough if they look cool :D

[dapper heron]

i wouldn't use it for any because you can get overwhelmed quickly at the time of getting items in and out of the train

[dapper heron]

yeah this is the best reason to use trains lol

[tropic zephyr]

There's a formula for this, but I still haven't figured it out in my head.

[dusky dust]

Personally I don't bother doing the math. I just set up a train route and watch it for a few runs to make sure it's delivering the throughput it needs

If the "source" station gets emptied out properly with every pickup, then the train route is good enough

If it's not getting emptied, then I need to add another train car

[dapper heron]

just mostly guide yourself by the stack size

[tropic zephyr]

So, it seems logical to design the factory and arrange for the production of the goods to be shipped there before arranging the logistics.

[dusky dust]

To do the math fully, you need to know the full round-trip time anyway, which means that you'd have to have the route set up. So I just set up the route and see if it works. :)

(Over time you get used to eyeballing how many freight cars something might need, of course)

[tropic zephyr]

I wish there was a website where we could plan this.

[tropic zephyr]

Hmm, I should keep this in mind.

[fervent spire]

the part that is kinda inconvenient for me is that sometimes I don't want a full belt's worth of throughput so just setting it into a sink at the destination and watching the station doesn't necessarily work immediately
e.g. I am going to be using 620 aluminum casings at my destination so I think what I would do is set up a 620 belt into the source station, set a 780 belt out of the destination into a sink (obviously both buffered), and then let the train run a few times and see if the freight station number equalizes out to 620

honestly it's adding multiple trains rather than multiple cars where it starts to get weird to measure

[mint coral]

Honestly I viewed my previous game playthroughs as lessons for the next. The best teacher is experience.

[tropic zephyr]

Hmmm, this sentence helped me put a few pieces together in my head.

[tropic zephyr]

And the faster it reaches that maximum stacking number, the worse; the slower it reaches it, the better for transportation.

[tropic zephyr]

Oh, this looks like something that's going to rack my brain.

[fervent spire]

another thing worth mentioning is that you should always have 2 belts going from freight station -> industrial storage container buffer (at both input and output)
even if you are only using one belt to actually input into the buffer or take from the buffer at the destination

this really matters when you are running multiple trains, or if you want throughput that is close to belt capacity. it doesn't matter much with single trains or if you have enough wiggle room with throughput

[dapper heron]

yeah after that you ask yourself if the ratios also benefit you, like the 3 : 1 of the concrete, or in case of why not to trnsport screws, The 1:25 of the steel recipe

[fervent spire]

basically, you want to empty the freight station as fast as possible, so the next train can deliver as much as possible

[tropic zephyr]

I want to move on to this stage now.😫

[dapper heron]

ye

This matters more if your train has short trips

[tropic zephyr]

I still don't understand this buffer thing, I must be an idiot

[dapper heron]

storage

its just that

so you dont stop producing

because trains aren't continuos

[fervent spire]

so basically, the belts out of the freight station SHUT OFF for ~30 seconds when the train is loading or unloading
that means if you are going directly from the freight station to your machines, the belts will stop sending items for ~30 seconds. so you go from freight station -> storage container -> machines, so you have 16 extra stacks' worth of items to keep sending while the belt is shut off

[tropic zephyr]

But it's a bit frustrating that people finish the game in the first 100 hours while I'm stuck in Phase 3 for 100 hours.

[fervent spire]

who cares? play at your own pace

[dapper heron]

yeah!

[mint coral]

It removes or adds parts from the freight stations while your train is not interacting with it. This way you are always loading or unloading making space

[fervent spire]

I'm several hundred hours in and still on phase 4 and I'm not gonna finish it anytime soon

[dapper heron]

me too, i'm 120 hours, sidequested all hardrives now i'm building a cool factory

haven't passed steel production

[mint coral]

I have more hours on my current playthrough then the last seven and I just got to phase 4

To put this in perspective I have a total of 1020 hours and Ive seen credits 7 times.

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't understand anything from this text 😭

[mint coral]

Everyone moves at there own pace

[fervent spire]

speaking of trains, why is this station yellow?

[tropic zephyr]

This formula is good.

[dapper heron]

This game is literally designed for you to take all the time in the world you want, either its designing decorating, making it more efficient or CONSUMING.

[fervent spire]

this took me a lot to wrap my head around as well, dw. let me try to explain it

[mint coral]

Known map glitch. Haven't seen it sense 1.1 though

[dapper heron]

I think its a bug 😭 it happens to me time to time

[dusky dust]

                  [-----]       [---------]
                  [     ] ----> [         ]
                  [ ISC ]       [ Station ]
[Input Belt] ---> [     ] ----> [         ]
                  [_____]       [_________]

Basically: send your belt into an Industrial Storage Container. Then hook both of the belts up to the train station

Do the same on the receiving end (station -> ISC -> belt)

[dapper heron]

yeah for example here i'm turning 6 of copper in 15 ignots, that's 6:15 , or 1 : 2.5

[dusky dust]

You can put more than one belt's worth into the ISC, too, but the station cannot transfer 2x-your-max-belt-speed, because the station stops accepting material for 27 seconds

If the transfer you're trying to do is slow enough you might not actually need the ISC buffer

But it's good to just do it all the time anyway

Then you don't have to think about it. :) Just if (building_train_station) { put_in_a_buffer(); }

[dapper heron]

Beating the game is just the sidequest of the game, the real thing is being efficient and not wating 🔥 Ficsit does not waste 🔥

[tropic zephyr]

But aren't they logically the same as a conveyor belt? Let's say a conveyor belt continuously sends 500 per minute, while a train suddenly carries 1500, but it's the same thing again every 3 minutes. But I think I understand what you're saying now. The purpose of using an industrial warehouse is probably because there's no place to put all 1500, so if the train waits for all 1500 to be used, other trains can't come. This is quite important, but a few days ago Greeny said these things were very insignificant.

[fervent spire]

the belts being disabled for ~30s when loading and unloading means it's not just a 1:1 of a conveyor belt

[dapper heron]

uhhh

[dusky dust]

I'd recommend just trying it out. Set up a real short train system, with stations like 200m apart.

[fervent spire]

if you have a buffer, 99% of the time it WILL act the same

[dapper heron]

this

[old plover]

man when you input a multiple of 11 uranium ore/min the numbers of a nuclear setup are CLEAN

[dusky dust]

Watch it do its job, get used to the behaviors. Experience is often a better teacher than rando internet folks. :)

[tropic zephyr]

I was looking for such a simple explanation, and I think I finally understand.

[dapper heron]

if it just were all multiple of 15 :'v

[tropic zephyr]

So yeah, nobody cares, but I care. 😔

[dapper heron]

🥀

[tropic zephyr]

At least there are others like me...

[mint coral]

just play. make a two track one direction system. if you have issues we will help you one at a time. paralysis is not progress. just do it !\

[dusky dust]

There are people who have played for literally thousands of hours but who haven't even yet finished the game. :)

So long as you're having fun, you're doing it right. :)

[dapper heron]

Consume.

[tropic zephyr]

Wow, I wasn't expecting something like this.

[dapper heron]

I HAVE 800 HOURS IN GAME, haven't seen the end once

but every time i do it again, my factory gets waaaay more Satisfactory

[long bridge]

I have almost 1k and haven't rolled credits

[dapper heron]

my man

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-friends-psychicpebbles-pim-smiling-friends-pim-mr-boss-gif-1373626090718171797

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, I completely agree with what you've said, but if someone from the outside said the same things to me, I would respond with the same things you said. But it's impossible to be objective about oneself.😭

[tropic zephyr]

So, when performing this operation, should I wait for the stocks to fill up first, like with a manifold?

[fervent spire]

yeah

[long bridge]

Athena what about fluids? Cobalt linked someone's buffer design but I don't understand what it does?

[fervent spire]

@tropic zephyr I'm going to simplify the numbers for an example. (this is regarding the short round trip time stuff I was talking about, with the double belts)

freight car carries 32 stacks.
industrial storage container has 48 stacks.
I am filling the train at 8 stacks per minute and emptying it at 8 stacks per minute.

For 30 seconds, the freight platform is not outputting - that is 4 stacks' worth that needs to come from the storage container. so in order for me to continuously output 8 stacks per minute, my train needs to deliver enough stacks per trip to compensate for the downtime.

This becomes an issue with very short round trip times. Let's say my round trip time is 1 minute. When the train reaches the destination, it locks the belts for 30 seconds. So 4 stacks will be emptied from the buffer, and then the belts are unlocked, and 4 stacks are emptied from the freight platform and just go straight through the buffer and into the output belt. Then the train comes back and the belts are locked again.

so what's happening here is that every time the train arrives, you end up with a net negative 4 stacks from your buffer if you want to always be sending 8 stacks per minute.

the way to solve this is by having 2 belts from the freight platform to the buffer. That means every time the belts unlock, you are emptying 8 stacks from the platform into the buffer (because 2 belts) during the 30s while the belts are unlocked. so now you are back to net 0 and can output 8 stacks/min consistently

[dapper heron]

you dont transport fluids in trains 👁️

[fervent spire]

this is like not a very common issue with trains and it's only an issue with short round trip times.

[dapper heron]

https://tenor.com/view/staringsoldiercatok-gif-2130370366885478984

[tropic zephyr]

Okay, so if I do this every time, meaning I always put a storage unit at both the entrance and exit, that wouldn't cause any harm, right?

[fervent spire]

long story short, always have an industrial storage container next to your freight station, and always have two belts from the freight station into it

[old plover]

why do I feel attacked

[fervent spire]

yes, and always have 2 belts into the freight platform

[dapper heron]

Well you're not alone anyway!

[tropic zephyr]

So yes, as someone who has been playing Minecraft for years and has probably finished it about 5 times, I don't feel this bad about Minecraft, but I wish I could be comfortable here too :D

[long bridge]

No. Minecraft is weird to not finish. Satisfactory is fine

[long bridge]

Minecraft you finish in 2h 🫣

[tropic zephyr]

So the tank will eventually fill up on its own.?

[old plover]

I finished my very first turbomotor factory last week after 2200hours of gameplay

[mint coral]

ive never seen the neder dragon and ive been playing minecraft on and off for what feels like 20 years

[old plover]

don't feel bad some mechanics are complicated, and reading the wiki doesn't necessarily helps if you're really not math savvy

[long bridge]

Beefy no!!! 😮‍💨

[tropic zephyr]

When you say the same, what do you mean the same as? Does that mean my factory will continuously operate at 100% efficiency?

[tropic zephyr]

Don't say that, thanks to you my knowledge level in this game has increased a hundredfold!

[old plover]

yes same as belts. the 1% of time is when either the roundtrip time is too long or if you're trying to input two belts at their maximum

[fervent spire]

^yep. if you just always have the buffer, and let the trains run for a bit without actually connecting them to your factory so that the buffers can fill, then you can reasonably expect it to give you the throughput just like a belt would

[mint coral]

2013v so 13 years i have never "beaten" mine craft and have un calculable hours

[fervent spire]

you'll run into issues if your trip is too long, too short, or you're trying to do something silly like 2400/m out of a single car (which I think is literally impossible) but in most cases it shouldn't be an issue

[tropic zephyr]

Thank you so much for your motivation.

[tropic zephyr]

So yes, actually I really enjoy generating electricity in this game. When I unlock nuclear power, I'll probably build a huge power plant, and that will be fun for me, but I could also just generate as much electricity as I need, but I enjoy it this way :D

[tropic zephyr]

What?! My whole goal right now is to finish this game, and I've spent 800 hours on it; I think I'd go crazy if I didn't.

[mint coral]

youve got to much info floating around so write this down then forget until its relevant.

when you do nuclear make a small setup in the swamp to start

[tropic zephyr]

I think I understood a little better this time, but I don't think my play style requires this, because all my factories are independent of each other, and I plan to use the trains only to send the outputs to the main storage. But thank you for all your effort, and I think the reason I didn't understand what you said was because of the 30-second lock-ups and entry/exit restrictions. I haven't even seen a single train station in the game yet, I don't even know how they work. It's like questioning the purpose of the manifold without ever using or knowing any manufacturers in this game.

[long bridge]

Why would I want to make power plant in swamp

That's where I live 🫠

[tropic zephyr]

I'll try this when I build the train station.

[mint coral]

Listen Shrek you dont get a say. 😛

[long bridge]

Manifolds aren't just for manufacturer! They are great for smelter constructer foundry refinery manufacturer blender particle accelerator and t9 stuff!

[tropic zephyr]

wow i cant do that

[long bridge]

But fr, the water inside the swamp sucks, its never deep enough 🤔

[tropic zephyr]

I think there's an absolute, absolute, absolute, absolute amount of thing to do in this game.

[long bridge]

Absolute ^4 is a weird statement

[mint coral]

Lots near the waterfall for a small setup involving the impure nod inside the waterfall

Even more on the coast

[tropic zephyr]

I live in Türkiye and I got 25 in math. 😭

[long bridge]

Is 25 good in Turkey?

[long bridge]

Okay, I planned on just training it all in. Still need to setup small nitro (3 fracks near blue)

[mint coral]

I assume he means 25%...

[tropic zephyr]

100 out of 100, but I don't want to seem like an idiot here; the education system in Türkiye is really very difficult.😔

[old plover]

nah don't worry if you want to make everything perfect you need basic highschool math, the bulk of Satisfactory is about logistics

[tropic zephyr]

I'll figure this out through trial and error when I open the train; I believe in myself.

[old plover]

then if you want to push sometime the math gets harder but it's totally optional

[tropic zephyr]

I don't know, you're right, but I really enjoy building the electrical system in the game.

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, I just said that as an example :D

[long bridge]

The VAST majority of the math in satisfactory isn't even basic algebra. It's just 1200/4 for example 🥸

The hard math is for trains

[tropic zephyr]

yeah..

[tropic zephyr]

So, in high school they teach us much more difficult things. We learned the basics in middle school, but I guess I didn't learn very well :D

[tropic zephyr]

yeah

Thank you so much for your help and motivation; I will now continue building my factory.

[meager kettle]

trains need math?

[long bridge]

If you want to push limits of train, yes

[old plover]

for each freight car you systematically wanna do 32*stacksize / throughput to see if your roundtrip time isn't to high

unless you're hauling like ai limiters and uranium fuel rods of course

[long bridge]

Why 32 though? I know trains hold 32 but my trains don't fill up completely

[meager kettle]

i dont do that :p i just build it, then watch thruput on terminal and add train if its not what i want

[old plover]

because a freight car can hold 32 stacks

[old plover]

yea you can do that

[meager kettle]

feels like people overthink trains a lot :p

[long bridge]

I said that. But my cars don't fill completely

[oblique hollow]

trucks even simpler

[old plover]

it's the difference between planning ahead and planning on the go 😄

[long bridge]

Idk I need to figure out path signals

[meager kettle]

why do they need to fill completly?

[long bridge]

Mine don't, i just don't get why use 32 when they dont

[old plover]

32*stacksize is exactly how many items a freight car can carry, divided by throughput gives you the time it takes for the car to fill completely

[oblique hollow]

they dont technically.
but if a train had had less car slots then your train would need to complete a trip more often

less capacity = more, quicker trips needed to deliever stuff

[old plover]

and you don't want your freight car to fill because then you lose throughput

[meager kettle]

not neccessarily

[oblique hollow]

actually you dont want the station to fill completely i guess

you only lose throughput once items start spilling out of stations.
once trains literally arent fast enough to keep stations from overflowing

[meager kettle]

you can set full load/unload in time table. but i'll be honest, not bothered with that so dont actually know how much it affects things

[wind spade]

or just add more trains until it's enough

[meager kettle]

a double directional track network can handle a surprising amount of trains

[long bridge]

Greeny tried telling me that my trains were bad

[meager kettle]

done 100-ish with no major issues. but started doing a second pair as high priority network for important deliveries, like keeping nuclear plant going

[long bridge]

All it needs is some path signals to fix intersections

[meager kettle]

intersections can become big bottlenecks

it depends on how much traffic they need to handle

[long bridge]

I liked old trains that had no physics and just phases through one another

[meager kettle]

simple one like this is fine for like 6-10 trains. it just goes to two train stations so not seeing much thruputs

while a slip laned reverse roundabout could easily handle like 80-100-ish trains passing thru. and if you have even more, doing a cross less intersection like over/under cloverleaf could handle even more

[long bridge]

I'm too stupid to understand your gibberish

[oblique hollow]

you sure that will be enough?

[long bridge]

No.

[meager kettle]

#math-and-meta message for small intersections like these. path signals will pretty much break up grid locks that can happen if you use only block signals

but they dont really increase thruputs

[long bridge]

I have been using T intersections with trains only allowed on right path, but oncoming trains still stop. It's annoying

[mint coral]

Are you using path signals?

[long bridge]

Wasnt

Need to add, Deaf told me to just do block for now, with 1 or 2 trains it didn't matter, but up to like 5 or 6 at one station now and sometimes they stop there

[mint coral]

Path in block out.

Making a large distance between the path signal and previous block signal reduces train slow down as the signal has more notice to calculate

[long bridge]

I was told that pibo didn't really work

[mint coral]

Seems to work for me but I also dont watch my trains much. If I need more throughput i just put another train on the rail or feed more freight stations

[long bridge]

Okay

I'll, add when I next get on

[dapper drum]

pibo is 100% accurate

[long bridge]

Still trying to figure out why my aluminum breaks when I'm not watching (but flawless when I watch)

[mint coral]

Its situational. If train ! Doesn't cross train b both get the go. If one track intersects the other and is being used one must wait.

Over long time periods the can make a ratios where they never meet. As everytime a train stops it off sets its timing until they stop crossing at that time. When rails get heavily used this can no longer happen

[long bridge]

Do they prioritize who got there first?

Like if 4 trains waiting at intersection with 1 inside, who goes next

[mint coral]

I think so but again. I dont watch my trains with that intensity

[tropic zephyr]

Is this what you call a buffer?

[long bridge]

How do you have ml6 belts, I thought you were early game

[mint coral]

And I never have that scenario. I often. Bypass that issue by running different rail. I dont like running trains into areas they are not needed.

[tropic zephyr]

this is creative mode

[long bridge]

But also, if you're trying to do 2400/min that buffer won't do much

[fervent spire]

yes but also note that only have one belt into the container

it's literally impossible to do 2400/min

imo it's just easiest to only do at most one belt's worth into a single freight car. just have two connecting the container to the station, but only one in and out of the container on either end for actual use

[tropic zephyr]

Hmm, so it will load into the repository at twice the speed of the input.

And it only gives output from one source?

[fervent spire]

correct, and that's to compensate for the downtime of the belts being locked and will avoid the issue I described earlier in case you have a short round trip time, etc.
just generally a good idea to do it anyway

yes like that

[tropic zephyr]

This is the unloading area, have I done it correctly?

[tropic zephyr]

But Greeny said it was unnecessary.

[fervent spire]

bruh idk then man, believe what you want. I explained the circumstances in which an issue could arise already and why this double belt will solve it. dunno what more you want me to say. it's not like it'll somehow make things WORSE

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't mean to say anything bad, I apologize.

[mint coral]

Please keep in mind frig soly communicates through a translator program. As he doesn't speak English at all. Patience is appreciated

[fervent spire]

😮 okay noted

[tropic zephyr]

It really touched me that you didn't forget this. :D

[wind spade]

don't need the splitter/merger

[wind spade]

no, not with trains

with trains it's very much necessary

[mint coral]

A long time ago I decided i would prefer to create a welcoming environment around myself. Remembering how to communicate with people is a large part of this.

[tropic zephyr]

Wow, it really has the same effect as a belt, only with a difference of -1 per minute, probably because I just set up the system, but this is definitely cooler than belts, fuckkk yeahhhhhhh

"gelen transfer oranı" means
incoming transfer rate

[tropic zephyr]

In what sense did you say it was unnecessary?

[fervent spire]

think he might mean the double belt between container and station not being necessary? which is true, it's not strictly necessary but it can solve some edge cases so might as well just always do it

[tropic zephyr]

JOYBAIT WILL WIN 🔥

[fervent spire]

the buffer is always necessary with trains. you ALWAYS want a container connected to the freight station. double belt not always necessary, but you might as well always do it too.

[tropic zephyr]

So, if it won't cause any harm later on, I think there's no problem with doing it.

[fervent spire]

yeah

[tropic zephyr]

I haven't fully grasped the logic behind it, but it seems necessary. I can imagine what would happen if there wasn't a buffer system, but I can't put it into words.

Wow, it takes 480 and exactly 480 comes out of the mine, and it's totally cooler than those belts.

[meager kettle]

said it was unneccesary to buffer between machines producing things. Not trains.

[wind spade]

anywhere else

[tropic zephyr]

Ah, right, I remember now, yes, they are unnecessary.

[tropic zephyr]

okay i understand thank you

For example, if these trains arrive at a rate of 1000 per minute, do they always send around 1000 trains per minute? If so, I can use trains everywhere, they're extremely cool (the number can be any number).

I think it won't change much; for example, even if a new train line comes into operation, the amount of cargo it will have to transport at the station will only increase with each delay. Am I right?

I said that because the new train line will create traffic; I forgot to mention that.

[meager kettle]

more trains will cause traffic yes, but its also a balancing act of will additional trains occupy the same bits of track all the time? does one intersection see a lot of traffic, then make it more efficient etc

you can have trains on a train network which will never traverse the same tracks, so those dont affect each other

it all depends how you build it and how much traffic you're pushing thru certain points. you might need to rebuild sections to allow for more traffic

imo, you can't really plan exaktly how many trains you'll have. can kinda guess which will have heavier traffic if you have some desire of a plan. But generally, if you only transport finished products rather than ores for example. its often a lot easier to reduce traffic. Like transporting 50 motors/min is much easier and much less traffic than shipping the iron + coal (and maybe copper) to make those motors

[tropic zephyr]

So yes, these things can be problematic during construction, but once everything is in place, the trains will always carry as much as they carry, right?

[meager kettle]

yes

[tropic zephyr]

After this answer, trains are my favorite thing in life.

[meager kettle]

i usually put some sinks on the arrival station and just sink the first 5-6 train deliveries to get an accurate reading on thruputs

[old plover]

🤓 akhtualy with low throughput, belt length can act as a buffer (or very, very long belts with high throughput). But yes a foolproof setup always has a industrial buffer

[tropic zephyr]

Unfortunately, I couldn't fully understand what you said due to the translation, but from what I understand from my own translation, yes, I agree with you, this would make sense because stuffing it seems like something that could impair efficiency.

TRAINS ARE AMAZING

This buffer system we're talking about applies to trucks and drones as well, right?

[long bridge]

That.. explains a lot! makes more sense why some things dont seem to line up right!

not in a bad way, i get it, just explains it

also. screw aluminum. it works fine while i watch it, even if i watch it for an hour, but the second i go off adventuring it breaks down

[mint coral]

Im not a linguist but as far as I know Turkish is not a contextual language like English. So translations can be difficult

[tropic zephyr]

Thank you all very much for your understanding.

[mint coral]

Are you feeding the water back in? Or are you using it in a different recipe ?

[long bridge]

im doing sloppy electrode, waste water from 3 feeds 2 of the sloppies, with 1 sloppy having fresh

[long bridge]

i can give you ratios if you want

[mint coral]

Would love that but I dont have time. About to leave work and i won't be active for a hour or two

[long bridge]

okay np. i just watched a sloppy get water starved, just not sure why

because the electrodes were okay

[tropic zephyr]

Normally my English is good, in fact, most English questions in class are asked to me :D But here, you have to speak very fast and read the sentences you type very quickly because the chat flows fast and since I can't be that fast, I have to use translation. I'm good at understanding but bad at constructing sentences.

I apologize for interrupting you.

[long bridge]

figured out why the starving one happened, forgot i was using waste water from a different one to feed the fresh and that other one needed 300 baux and accidently had a mk3 belt bottlenecking at the miner

but im still not sure why my others keep backing up

(i have 20 "systems" of 6 refiners that each take 600 bauxite and 180 fresh water

[mint coral]

@lofty cargo can I dm you regarding this?

#screenshots message

[lofty cargo]

Please don’t

[mint coral]

Okay, this is why I ask ^-^

[lofty cargo]

My mental health can’t take the math again

[mint coral]

Oh its a simplified document I typed up to make it easy

[fast cipher]

hmm very nice power thought i got no idea how i have max 5k consumption xd
time to do trains
i could increase it easly by placing for fuel gens

but until i get notification that battery buffer is running out i should be fine (got 20)

[crimson moat]

Belts also act like a buffer, albeit a small one. I always do at least an ISC at each platform

but some peeps like "i dont put an isc and it works" because of having a 100m belt at each end storing just enough items for it not to fail with their trip time

[tropic zephyr]

It should be 120, but it's 119. This tiny difference shouldn't cause any problems for the factory, right?

[maiden lodge]

get fuel gens bro

[maiden lodge]

its 120, just give the vehicule a couple extra trips the number will show

[tropic zephyr]

No, it's been working since this morning, but there are occasional drops from 120 to 119, but only occasionally.

[maiden lodge]

yeah trust that 120 is actually going through, ignor that number if your factory is making 120 its getting 120

[tropic zephyr]

I don't know how to say "since this morning" in English, but for me it's just a figure of speech. :D

[meager kettle]

it showign 119 rather than 120 is often a rounding issue

i wouldnt worry about it, next delivery it can show 121

[tropic zephyr]

Hmm, so logically it would take as much as any input, right?

[maiden lodge]

if you know how much is going in just ignore that number

[unique cypress]

ignore that number and look at how your machines are running

[tropic zephyr]

In this game, the desire for everything to be perfect is unfortunately quite overwhelming, so I wanted to ask.

[maiden lodge]

no worries

[tropic zephyr]

So I guess there won't be a problem.

thanks for the information guys

[trail osprey]

i'm sure you said it right

[tropic zephyr]

oh, nice then :D

[maiden lodge]

my factory, everything from ore processing to fuel and elevator parts is in one area, in the west coast. ive hear dpeople say that gigafacotries are bad but ive never had any issue

[tropic zephyr]

So if you enjoy playing like this and don't see any problem with it, then that's best for you :D

[tropic zephyr]

But it never showed 121, so I was a little worried.

[mint coral]

first youd need to argue what a giga factory is. A mega factory is usually described as all in one place if are are no longer doing something inside your megafactory you no longer have a megafactory lol

[maiden lodge]

idk ppl have megafactories but still have satellites, id say a giga is if you have everything in one spot no matter what it is

[tropic zephyr]

I hope it won't be a problem that it never shows 121 but sometimes shows 119.

[mint coral]

if you have a satellite you know longer have a megafactory. I dont make the definitions lol

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Megafactory

[outer vale]

lol he actually made the page

[maiden lodge]

question was what were the downsides tho

[mint coral]

its covered although briefly on the wiki

[old plover]

turning fps into spf

[mint coral]

@maiden lodge Further more there is many youtubers that have achieved this already. TotalXclipse for example had to upgrade his CPU and Gpu just to playt without crashing while processing all nodes in the dunes at one location. He also had to increase his Uobject limit to do so. breaking from the games designed functions. So i fail to see what you are trying to prove?

if you enjoy playing a certain way do it

[old plover]

also building in a place you've never built before gives off a certain kind of dopamine like I'm productin uranium fuel rods in the red pillars rn and i'm so stoked

[outer vale]

I'm 100% taking credit for the page being created 🤣 (not its content of course)

[tropic zephyr]

"USBeefalo (PC) typing..."
I feel so relieved whenever I see this :D

[outer vale]

tbf some of the megafactory pain is just sheer amount of stuff being processed in general, even if it was more distributed it'd still be a fair performance hit

[mint coral]

I remember this lol

[outer vale]

but the logistics are the real pain

[mint coral]

i did 10/min of all phase 4 and 5 parts in one building WITH lots of planing and it was a pain

even with refining off site

[outer vale]

I did... a less even mix, and just P5 stuff, and also with some offsite preprocessing (aluminium, plubber, iron/steel/copper products, concrete) and yeah the main core was a chunky boi

[mint coral]

not a playstyle for me lol

[outer vale]

oh yeah and remote diamonds/nitrogen due to compression, first real use of drones

[fast cipher]

How quick are drones?
I wonder if they could supply worth of mk4 belt,
From desrt to oil biome on the left of it.

[outer vale]

if your plan is to fully yolo it and not try and match inputs and outputs, then a megafactory might work, but I struggle to see how you could manage to keep track of all the intermediates being funnelled around everywhere if you did mega it

[outer vale]

depends on the fuel, probably some speed numbers on the wiki. But you can always just add more drone ports and drones if the ones you build aren't enough

[meager kettle]

depends on fuel

[outer vale]

too sloooow 😛

[fast cipher]

Ok it has 9 slots propably not worh

[meager kettle]

can always have more drones

[fast cipher]

Guess gonna use them when i get through phase 3 (only need to setup trains to transport plastic, rubber and do manufacturers. )

[outer vale]

(also already mentioned)

[fast cipher]

I mean use them for stuff like black powder

[outer vale]

drones are best at relatively low volume transport

though any vehicle can do high volume if you add enough of 'em

[fast cipher]

Thought i plan to make turbo fuel too, propably in the lake east of green zone
So maybe make explosive thingy there

If plastic/rubber isnt an issue.
Caterium circuit and caterium computer would be best recipe?, i hate oscilators because of my first playthrough (never finished game)

Or maybe silicon one is that much better i dont use quartz at all

On other non alternative high speed connector recipe socks then I propabnly will go with silica one

[teal tiger]

finally after 90 or so hard drives

[wind spade]

ah, the "I don't want to go nuclear" recipe

[teal tiger]

i acutally do wanna go nuclear lol

but i need some power first

im in t9 with only 8k power

[wind spade]

diluted fuel

[teal tiger]

yea will use both

[wind spade]

DF is enough 🙂

[teal tiger]

too late ig..

its my first playthrough so i have 0 feelings for that stuff

[teal tiger]

can u tell me how much power i approx need to swap to nuclear?

i was aiming for 100k before going for nuclear

[wind spade]

if you build small nuclear at first, then just very little

[teal tiger]

that would be 400 fuel-powered generators tho..

[wind spade]

and don't need to "swap" either, just build new

[teal tiger]

yea id just add it ontop

maybe i should do 50k

eventho 200 generators are also quite alot to build..

maybe 25k lol

[meager kettle]

doesnt cost that much power to just start nuclear, its like manufacturers to make the uranium rods, then blenders, particle acceleartor and assemblet to make the plutonium, can store/sink em while your uranium reactors warm up, then start building the ficsonium refinement, or copious amounts of storage for plutonium waste, or just keep sinking the plutonium rods and leave it there

[teal tiger]

hmm okay should i just use the DF recipe for my 25k power so 100 fuel generators, or still go for the nitro one? i mean i already have both recipes

[meager kettle]

do what you fancy doing

[teal tiger]

df should be cheaper no?

[vapid gorge]

if you build power storage you can just use geysers to kick start it

[teal tiger]

nvm df would need so much more pipes

[meager kettle]

compared to what?

[teal tiger]

nitro

[meager kettle]

no

[teal tiger]

20/min in comparison to 4?

thats 5 times more pipes

[meager kettle]

its 30 fuel gens to 600 fuel and 144 fuel gens to 600 rocket fuel

[teal tiger]

actually not rly that much, i can power 30 statiosn with 1 pipeline, so 3 diff pipe systems

yea mb

[unique cypress]

Max uranium nuclear takes like 60 GW to run

But it can sustain itself pretty quickly, you can start it with half that and like a 1000 power storage

[solar oracle]

kinda of a dumb example but this would work with a 2 way train? like it will go to the other end and if i have stops it wont crash or anything?

[wind spade]

why the big circle?

[solar oracle]

for later like trains

[wind spade]

why not direct route?

don't build for later, build for now

[vapid gorge]

you probably want it going one way, but it could work

[solar oracle]

well i alreadyt have like 4 trains im just trying to setup a overall system for them

[wind spade]

well big loop is generally less efficient than direct route

[solar oracle]

ah alr ill do direct then

thanks

[vapid gorge]

do 2 lanes - you'll have a much better life

[wind spade]

something like this

[meager kettle]

when it comes to train infrastructure, this is not a good idea imo. set up the train line, then you can just add onto it as you expand and you have the infrastructure for logistics already in place.

[wind spade]

(depends on how many trains go to which station, and if they are push/pull or, one direction only

[wind spade]

yeah, set up current train lines, later ones can expand on top of it

but don't build map-wide network for "maybe at some point trains will use this"

[solar oracle]

ahhhhh thats perfect thank u

[meager kettle]

leave yourself easy ability to just expand on it

[wind spade]

and don't build roundabouts 🙂

[meager kettle]

oh yea, that one was shit

better roundabout

[wind spade]

why not normal X junction?

[meager kettle]

better thruputs mostly

[wind spade]

normal X junction HAS better throughput

roundabout has worst throughput of all the junctions

[meager kettle]

first one yes, second one, no

[wind spade]

second one also yes

that thing can't even handle two trains going straight at same time

[meager kettle]

it can

[wind spade]

no it can't

[meager kettle]

probably wont, but it can when timing is right

[wind spade]

meanwhile classic X junction can handle them easily

[river night]

that roundabout is particularly odd because it has that extra crossing, a normal one doesnt have that and it could do t wo straight ones, but its still not very good

[meager kettle]

that roundabout is mainly for right and left, its not build for trains going thraight thru

cause trains arent planned to go tstraight thru it

[river night]

i usually just build flat trivial X junctions, or when I feel fancy I build a 3d junction with zero crossings, but those are a pain to make look nice 😛

[wind spade]

yeah, both of those would be better option

[river night]

i think i have one roundabout somewhere because it offered a trivial option to add an option for the train to turn around there, but alas

[wind spade]

usually if your train wants to turn around, you have a weird junction somewhere else already anyway

[meager kettle]

trains should never need to turn around

if they cannot exit a station in the correct direction then you built it wrong

and you lose a lot of thruput due to it

both with it taking longer, and creating more traffic where it doesnt need to be

[solar oracle]

everytime it says this?

[wind spade]

show screenshot of the layout while holding signal in hand (the tracks will be colored)

[solar oracle]

this works now right?

[dapper drum]

Sometimes

If the colors changed it worked

And you don't have any ⚠️

[solar oracle]

there is nothing in its way but its not moving

[brisk urchin]

there is

the signal is red

[dapper drum]

Is there a train down the line?

[brisk urchin]

has to be

[solar oracle]

like across the map alomst

[brisk urchin]

not evwn a question

[brisk urchin]

yep, and its on the same block

[dapper drum]

You have to split the rail into multiple segments periodically

[brisk urchin]

means the train is scared to enter it

[dapper drum]

The train has the heeby jeebies

[solar oracle]

ahhh alr i just did that

[brisk urchin]

aigh gn

[dapper drum]

I recommend every 2-3 train lengths to drop a signal. It's probably excessive but keeps traffic flowing

[meager kettle]

It's a single bi directional track. It ain't gonna work being segmented with signals

Gonna end with two trains facing each other

[solar oracle]

no they go 2 different stations

[crimson moat]

if you do waste processing you probably want that online first, and going to ficsonium will like 4x your power costs

10% of the power that you want to output is a fairly reasonable number, although it can get less than that with the simplest setups or underclocking and it can be several times higher than that that with full OC on ficsonium.

you can also jumpstart with batteries but production lines in nuclear tend to be quite long (as in it takes ages for an average piece of ore entering the factory to get buned as a rod) and if you screw up something, which you will, it will probably be more of a pain in the butt to keep recharging the kickstart batteries than it would have been to just build rocket fuel that can cover the plant's power requirements.

[fervent spire]

ok so I have an aluminum setup for sloppy alumina to electrode scrap, 4 to 4 refineries clocked so that 3 of the sloppy refineries use the water from the 4 scrap refineries
.....how do I actually start this up so that it stabilizes to operating at full efficiency?

I let the water pipe fill up before turning on the 3 refineries that use the byproduct water, but now one of the scrap refineries is idling a little because the water output is full

OH I messed up something, please hold

[vapid gorge]

just feed the fresh water in and it'll spin up

[fervent spire]

yeah I did a 1-1 pipe from the sloppy alumina refineries to the scrap ones but that doesn't work with these clock ratios so I need to pipe them together, that will probably fix it

[vapid gorge]

post some overhead shots of what you're doing in #math-and-meta

[fervent spire]

I built multiple of these setups for when I bring in the bauxite so the pipes of alumina solution are hidden beneath the belts 🙃 but yeah I think I just need to manifold those pipes

all scrap refineries at 100%

[vapid gorge]

yeah really can't tell what you're doing with your image or ... the pointless modeler pic

god I hate modeler so much

[fervent spire]

dude I get you hate modeler but you do know people can find it useful right -_-

[vapid gorge]

yeah but this just doesn't convey anything

it's extremely frustrating

[fervent spire]

it literally shows the four refineries on each side and what they are clocked to....?? genuinely I've gotten so much use out of modeler, it's perfectly intuitive to me

[vapid gorge]

can you sketch teh layout maybe?

[vapid gorge]

I have no idea about the layout , what is junctioned or not or anything

like this is definitely not one pipe

can't see what is fresh water or waste

but yeah would definitely need a sketch since you've got your pipes covered up

[fervent spire]

seems to be working, just manifold the output of the 4 solution refineries into the 4 scrap refineries. it's 720 solution total but no pipe segment gets more than 600

[fervent spire]

just couldn't do this, that's all

[dapper drum]

https://tenor.com/view/anna-kendrick-pitch-perfect-boom-suck-on-that-take-that-gif-16636466

[vapid gorge]

from the thing it looks like you're merging fresh and waste? that also could ahve been the issue

I can't see any combo of whatever this is that looks like it accomadates only waste or fresh

[fervent spire]

no I'm not. the scrap refineries output 420 water total, which is enough for the 2 100% and the 1 10% alumina refineries. so it feeds those.

[vapid gorge]

riiight ok

[mint coral]

any thoughts why 4 fuel lines just stop feeding randomly. they were working fine for 10 hours or so but suddenly stopped the pipes connect in the circled area. the segemnt before are full the segment after are not getting any flow.

I have already rebuild the pipes and they just refuse to fill. hedlift is not a issue as they have pumps just before

[dapper drum]

I don't have any clue but I am going Wtf

0 sense made

[mint coral]

this is the second time this happened this save. This with my Crash site glitch im starting to think the save is cursed lol

[dapper drum]

Did you rebuild just the segment or the ones before it too?

[mint coral]

both

and after

[dapper drum]

Odd question but rebuild pump?

[mint coral]

yup

[dapper drum]

Wth

What if you flush the system?

[mint coral]

trying a few things be back in a few minutes

[dapper drum]

Very curious

[mint coral]

deleting the floor holes worked..... wchi makes no sense as the segment before and after the hooles were working

[fervent spire]

sometimes floor holes just Don't

I've had that issue a few times, had to rebuild them and it was fine

[dapper drum]

Ill be damned. I've heard of people having issues with them but never seen it

You could nudge floor holes into place so it cosmetically lines up still

[dapper drum]

Makes me think the floor hole and pump were somehow too close? And it made headlift reset to 0? But... then why did the first pipe fill?

Confusenment

[mint coral]

i used to have floor hole issues pre 1.0 but not since. thats why i decided to try it anyways

[dapper drum]

Guess i should consider myself lucky. Never had a wall or floor hole issue

[fervent spire]

wall holes have always been fine for me but I've had issues with floor holes, it's strange

[mint coral]

to make things more fo a pain this is a recycled plubber layout so if one thing goes ouit of balance the whole thing poops lol

[dapper drum]

Listen. I only recently realized how amazing recycled setups are. They're fickle but so OP

I didn't realize how big of a gain it was

[mint coral]

ive been using them for a while. its just frustrating to boot up and trouble shoot lol

[dapper drum]

Yeah no joke

[mint coral]

now i have a new issue.,...

[dapper drum]

👀

[mint coral]

all i did was delete the floor holes... but my output numbers have chnaged

[dapper drum]

WHAT

[mint coral]

i should be making 500 plastic/min but im not lol

im making 400

[dapper drum]

That's ... close

[mint coral]

it was dead on last night while i drew and monitored it lol

[dapper drum]

That's deeply frustrating

[mint coral]

I had to flush parts of the solid parts to reboot the system. so im hoping that it just needs wind up time

[dapper drum]

My fingers are crossed for you. What a weird situation

[mint coral]

A similar fluid issue happened for my ACU setup (pure iron portion) where one of 4 lines refuesed to fill the same way. but no floor holes

if i come across a major issue like this again i may need to give up on this save. My crash sites are borken too

[dapper drum]

Haha, I just finished that today and also used so much PURE