math-and-meta

[half geyser]

or you can just run belts underneath the map where it doesn’t matter if you’re space-efficient in the first place

I can check this later when I have the production ratios for these things

[lone parrot]

Crazy stuff bro

[vapid gorge]

did you use a planner? if not how much fuel are you expecting to make from how much oil?

[grand lotus]

guys if i have a high up water tank thing for pressure, does that pressure travel to the pipes between machines?

[vapid gorge]

and are you using base recipes?

[grand lotus]

ok

[vapid gorge]

machines pumps and buffers reset headlift

[grand lotus]

ok

[vapid gorge]

just use pumps.

[grand lotus]

alr ty

[vapid gorge]

they are basically free, and if using pumps is very expensive on materials or power for you you have 2 much bigger issues on your plate

[random plume]

1000 mw did not use planner although saw someone use this setup

[vapid gorge]

... so 80 fuel?

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=rU3F9qYjg1zyKVUEuJNP

[random plume]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

ok if your fuel gens are starving check yoru fuel producers, are they starving or clogged?

as in starved of their input, or clogged of their output

[wary rapids]

looks fine, id check that your pipes are attached were they appear to be everything is on.

[random plume]

starving of input

[vapid gorge]

ok continue following it backwards, are the machines producing HOR starved of input or clogged of HOR?

[tropic zephyr]

why it cannot calculate?

[random plume]

HOR?

[vapid gorge]

heavy oil residue

[random plume]

ah

[grand lotus]

wait what is that?

i was just starting to make a turbofuel power gen

i thought there were no tools

[vapid gorge]

a terrible planner

[tropic zephyr]

why are you saying this?

[random plume]

They are all clogged in their input so they constantly running they all have a max of 50 crude oil

[vapid gorge]

here https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Ug8RPzPvDqgB9mKB4uZD

[tropic zephyr]

I am building a factory for everything.

[vapid gorge]

but their outputs are fine?

[grand lotus]

i tried putting in turbo fuel or packaged turbo fuel and it doesnt show anything

[vapid gorge]

that's because turbo fuel is an alt recipe

so is compacted coal.
just check them off

[grand lotus]

ohh

[vapid gorge]

a better link https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=PW4pLfyPI4uXIY4aQE0O

[grand lotus]

i like to keep everything i made using the tools in seperate tabs lol

[random plume]

yeah they are producing their outputs

[grand lotus]

in case i need to look at somthing, its super duper helpful

[vapid gorge]

it's useful that way

[vapid gorge]

stare at their lights for 30 seconds - see if ANY flicker yellow

[random plume]

the refinaries right?

[vapid gorge]

yes

[grand lotus]

why is it saying i need sam for compacted coal

[vapid gorge]

cause it's not making much sense that all of them have their outputs clear but the things consuming HOR is full

[vapid gorge]

The conversion recipes are considered 'base'
just uncheck SAM in the inputs tab

[grand lotus]

ty

[vapid gorge]

no stress

[vapid gorge]

you can also get teh same effect by

unchecking the converter machine
searching for hte conversion recipes with ( in the recipe section and unticking those

each method is useful in different ways

[grand lotus]

when u get polymer by product, do u make plastic and rubber out of it or just sink it

[vapid gorge]

I generaly just sink it. I don't like mixing item production with power production

though that's a personal choice

there's no real right or wrong

[grand lotus]

ok ill just sink it and make plastic/rubber production if needed

might be nice when i setup a train network

[maiden lodge]

try use it to make iodine infused filters

[vapid gorge]

my power stations tend to be far away from everythign else too so it's usually easier to make plubber closer to home

[grand lotus]

dont have that unlocked, im switching from coal to gens

[maiden lodge]

whats the drawback to having every single item and power plant in the same area, my current world i have every single thing in one place so its all connected and the only logistics is getting raw ore and gas in

[grand lotus]

im like mid early game and my main area where everything is being produced feels mega cramped

i was gonna do my first mega (?) build for power

seems like a fun project

[maiden lodge]

if ur still on normal fuel try rush turbofuel in the mam

[vapid gorge]

mixing items and power can lead to clogs but having everything in one spot is just going to be mess

[maiden lodge]

ive made it 400 hours without clogs toh everythings built to serve the final purpoe without having any clogging, my grid would be a perfect line if it wernt for phase 5 machines fluctuating

[random plume]

alright so now i ve checked and the refinaries producing the fuel is not starving anymore

[vapid gorge]

I did say 'can lead to clogs', doesn't mean it has to.

[vapid gorge]

is this a case of not having waited long enough for hte manifolds to spin up? 🙂

[random plume]

idk i set this up yesterday but the fuel gens are still dipping

although now its only one of them that occasionally runs out of fuel

[vapid gorge]

ok under clock a couple of generators to like 50% , let the WHOLE system flood

after it's flooded, clock them back up and let it run for 10 minutes, come back to it after, if everything is running fine all the machine's buffers shouls still be pretty full

[fervent shoal]

Hello folks. Any chance I could join in on anyone and help out for funsies?

[random plume]

i think it was a case of the outputs for the rubber refinaries getting clogged i dont think i looked at them hard enough

i only saw the hor output and it was at 0 but then when i go up to look for 30 seconds to see if any lights were yellow the whole conveyer line which had the rubber was full

so i set up an awesome sink system to get rid of the excess and then the refinaries producing the fuel started to fill up

[vapid gorge]

oh did you not have a sink for the items?

cause yeah that would do it if you had excess plubber

[random plume]

yeah but the containers werent full yet

[vapid gorge]

hmm ok did you do the flooding and it's going ok now?

[random plume]

yeah ok flooding the system worked 👍

[vapid gorge]

it's a good trouble shooting tool as if yo ucome back to it and it starts starving again you definitely know you ahve an issue
plus full pipes tend to be more stable

[random plume]

yeah

[snow folio]

7 - 6 balancer

[half geyser]

6 7 !!!

[tropic zephyr]

I've been trying to get past phase 3 for a week now, and I think I've finally decided on a course of action. I'm moving from the universal factory to smaller factories. I'll build a separate factory for each item in each phase, meaning three factories. The production will be based on the technology level of the first phase, and the technology of the second phase will determine the production of the items in the second phase. You get the logic. As the phases progress, I'm also thinking of changing node usage. For my first-phase factory, I've decided to use either two of the worst nodes or one of the normal nodes. As the phases increase, the node usage will also increase accordingly. I was originally going to build the universal factory, but the satisfactory modeler couldn't calculate it properly, and since I couldn't calculate such a large production volume myself, I decided to move to smaller factories. Do you think this plan is logical? I want to get out of phase 3 now.

It's a bit long, so the translation might be inaccurate in some places. Sorry about that.

this is the first phase factory,
I know there's no water technology in the first stage, but I thought that's acceptable.

[tropic zephyr]

Are these rates good on a per-minute basis? This will be for my own use; I won't be connecting these to other factories.

[outer vale]

those numbers look like you're using Maximise on your outputs, which usually isn't recommended - it doesn't do any sort of optimisation, just finds a valid way to make as much as it can within the limits you've set. Setting to specific output values for each will potentially make it use less

as for actual numbers, sure, if you think that's sensible, go for it. I will point out that Smart Plating is only used for Space Elevator tasks, but you can always just send them to the Awesome Sink if you have no use for them

[tropic zephyr]

I don't really care about it anymore because I want to use a node to its fullest extent and I don't want to rack my brain too much. With the manifold, I want a single miner to go to a single factory, so what I do is enter the maximum number of outputs from the nodes into the site and get the result.

[lucid ermine]

lowk took me like 5 hours to get out of phase 3 twinerino

anyways im on phase 4 a bit confused on what i should do

[tropic zephyr]

This is my first time playing.

[lucid ermine]

i mean this was my first time playing after a year break smh xd

[outer vale]

same as every other tier and phase before it: look at what you can unlock, make the items to unlock it, get new stuff you can make, make more stuff

[lucid ermine]

i feel like i need to go look for hard drives again to just get the better supercomputer recipe

but i already spent like 2 hours straight just farming hard drives for the aluminum stuff

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, I made one for the sink and then I saw that it was also needed for the space elevator parts, I didn't think it would cause any harm, so I included it. How much can small extravagances affect my gameplay in this game? I'm just tired of thinking of everything to be perfect.

[outer vale]

entirely up to you, some people like their factories to be perfect and their power graph to be flat (as far as is possible), others are just "if it works it works, good enough"

[tropic zephyr]

I asked my question because I don't know anything about the later stages, and I looked at the materials used in building construction. I don't think I need many of them; I've reduced the quantity of things like iron plates, iron rods, and wire. And I won't be sending them to a factory later; I'll just be using them myself. So I don't think I need to produce a lot, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

[outer vale]

you don't need perfection

[tropic zephyr]

I wish I could say that too..

[outer vale]

it'll obviously depend on the scale you build at, things like concrete often gets used in bursts too like building thousands of foundations at once.
They look like reasonable enough numbers to me, and if it turns out they're not enough for you you can always just build more later

[tropic zephyr]

And here again, my perfectionist tendencies kick in, damn it! I don't want to fix things later; I want the game to be perfect until the very end, but...

[outer vale]

hah, predicting the future is hard

[tropic zephyr]

I don't know the game at all, it's my first time playing, that's why I'm like this.

For days, the game has just been running in the background, and I haven't used anything other than Satisfactory Tools and Modeler....

[outer vale]

that I can understand, I do that a lot too

[tropic zephyr]

But now I think I've made a sensible decision: to utilize every node to its fullest extent and build the factory in stages.

[outer vale]

sure

[tropic zephyr]

I hope I won't go to bed anymore thinking, "Ah, I should have done it differently."

Thank you so much for your help and encouragement.

My apologies if some of my sentences seem nonsensical because I used translation.

[outer vale]

hah, that thought'll always be there, but better to have done something and learned from it than be paralysed and unable to progress

[dapper drum]

help

[tropic zephyr]

While playing Space Engineers, the line "Everything you do will be better than the last" during a loading screen really resonated with me; I should continue on that path now.

[dapper drum]

once your world grows to a certain point.. what are you all doing to keep track of what resources are still "available?"

here's what i mean. say you have a train station set up to export 500 rubber/min. maybe you're using... say... 100 of it somewhere. so you have 400 remaining to be pulled from that station

but you made that train station a hundred hours ago and aren't sure at some point how much rubber is "available" from there before it would be overextended.

how are you all keeping track?

[half geyser]

I loved that line and the “if you see a bomb technician running, follow them” line, easily my favorite two loading screen lines

[half geyser]

You can use belt output analyzer thingies on each node

[outer vale]

the possibly unhelpful answer: by using the Independency strat and not siphoning resources from other factories

[half geyser]

The things that measure belt throughput

The meter thingy you clip onto it

Clip it onto the direct output of every miner

[tropic zephyr]

That line was really good too :DDD

[half geyser]

If it’s maxed out, go down the line and see if it’s used anywhere inefficient

[dapper drum]

this is what I tend to do, overarchingly. but was wondering if at some point it becomes prohibitive. for example, i only need 206 crude oil for all the plastic/rubber i need for my current big project... but it seems wasteful to leave remaining oil from that source on the table

am i min/maxing too hard?

[half geyser]

W game, challenged a friend recently to try defending against a hundred of my new self-guided missiles at once and this was the result

[tropic zephyr]

dammmmmmmnnnnnnnnnn it is soooo good wow its look like a star wars ship

[half geyser]

I’m still “not very good” at the game yet, that was a ship they’d been working on with a couple other people for like two years

I just made the missiles that blew it up 🤷

[outer vale]

greeny said it well before: by that logic you're also wasting every node on the map you haven't tapped yet

[tropic zephyr]

Two years, wow, and people can actually value something, I can't do that.

[dapper drum]

ooooo you know what, that framing helps

that's very disarming

[tropic zephyr]

It might sound a bit heartless, but oh well :D

[half geyser]

It was a creative world lol

Dw

[outer vale]

yeah, it's a useful thought. I'm also a nodemaxxer (that's what they say these days right), but for something like that I'd just make a lil extra of some other output and add that to the build

[dapper drum]

yeah, that thought just crossed my mind. maybe siphon off the rest and make fuel out of it just to burn off to help the grid

[outer vale]

but not doing that, and just only using what you need is totally fine

[dapper drum]

that reframing was honestly wicked helpful. my factories are getting bigger than i've ever built and the "am i tapping into resources as best as i can" kinda settled in

[tropic zephyr]

fuck yeah this is my new life philosophy

[dapper drum]

it's freakin' good, right?

[tropic zephyr]

yeahhhhh

[outer vale]

some of greeny's stuff can be hit or miss, but yeah that's a pretty good one

[dapper drum]

it's super solid wisdom

[tropic zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/blackbeard-blackbeard-writing-taking-notes-writing-gif-17583038544116987898

[dapper drum]

it instantly worked for me, too. like yeah, unless i've tapped into every node, why am i worrying?

[tropic zephyr]

greeny

[tropic zephyr]

If this game were as difficult as we think it is, nobody would play it. its a "GAME"

[half geyser]

• can’t you just like uhh

transmute resources

I don’t remember how the quantum tier works

I interacted with it briefly once and that’s about it

[tropic zephyr]

Thankfully, I haven't reached that stage yet. :D

[half geyser]

Never gotten there myself yet

[half geyser]

well it also comes with significant power cost iirc

[dapper drum]

you're not wrong at all

[half geyser]

so I wouldn’t think about using it yet

[tropic zephyr]

Even if I opened it, I probably wouldn't use it; I don't want to bother thinking about it too much.

[outer vale]

yeah can, but for most resources it's probably more sensible to just get that resource from somewhere else

[dapper drum]

I've been trying to be careful with the more rare resources, and I think it's crippled my decisions a bit

[outer vale]

there are a few useful cases I can think of offhand, but I think because the resources you need to do that transmutation are also quite rare and often in awkward spots, it's often about the same effort to bring in the actual resource you wanted in the first place

[half geyser]

It’s probably mostly going to be nice if I can support the power and I need, say, copper, but the nearest copper node is super far away and there’s a close iron node…

[outer vale]

you also require the resource ||SAM|| to do these conversion recipes, which is probably not gonna be easier to access than more copper

[tropic zephyr]

HOW CAN SUCH A SMALL FACTORY HAVE SO MUCH DIFFICULTY WITH THE CALCULATIONS? THIS APPLICATION IS ALREADY BASED ON CALCULATIONS????????

[dapper drum]

modeler be like:

?

[half geyser]

Oh

Nvm then

[half geyser]

You have many, many outputs listed here

I dunno if that’s intentional

If you clear those and only output quartz oscillators, it’ll look much more approachable

[frigid solstice]

hello pioneers

lets say one has a plastic factory on the west oil coast and plastic needs to be delivered to the east swamp by train, and another factory elsewhere whether it be close in proximity or similarly far away

is it best practice to make 2 dedicated train lines for each factory or is it better to have a 1/4 train which unloads 2 containers at each factory requiring plastic before heading back to refill? cheers

or does it simply not matter and neither option has any benefits

[outer vale]

as in, having a->b and a->c vs having a->b->c?

[dapper drum]

thats the way i understood as well

[frigid solstice]

yup

[outer vale]

both can work, but it's usually easier for train routes to be a simple point to point, so the former

[dapper drum]

i propose a third solution, depending on volume necessity

[outer vale]

at this sorta distance you'll probably have multiple trains either way

[dapper drum]

this could help address it

2 trains. one a->b->c, one a->c->b

they'll fill in each other's gaps

[tropic zephyr]

I've created the exact same system, but because it doesn't recognize the manifold structure, when I use a reservoir, it splits it exactly in two. How do I get the required statistics? How do I adjust the amount that should go to each reservoir?

[frigid solstice]

i dont think it'd require that much plastic etc but if throughput is an issue i'll try to apply that solution, cheers for the input

[dapper drum]

happy to throw stuff at a wall

[dapper drum]

not sure tbh, i only use SF tools and not modeler

[tropic zephyr]

Thanks anyway for replying.

[dapper drum]

I used it once... I love the concept, but just couldn't really appreciate it for what it was

[frigid solstice]

i ran into a similar issue a while ago, what was suggested and worked for me was separating everything into its own blocks with their exact inputs needed

[tropic zephyr]

What do you mean? I didn't quite understand.

[frigid solstice]

ok so im assuming your issue is something to like this, where you can't really manage to split the outputs equally right? if i understood that as the problem then yeah logistically it would be a nightmare

[tropic zephyr]

No, instead of that place, it would be better to give this place as an example.

[frigid solstice]

so how much concrete are you trying to make total? im assuming the silica there is just a byproduct and not an output you need

[tropic zephyr]

I want to send 44 to 30, but it's sending half of them.

No, no, I need silica in the concrete, my target is 200.

shit

The translation is incorrect, sorry.

[frigid solstice]

i dont quite follow

44 to 30 in what sense?

[tropic zephyr]

I want to send 44 up and 30 down, but the satisfactory modeler is sending 37 and 37 instead of the total output of 74. That's the problem.

[cunning stump]

should i be buffering fluids on a train like you do on items?

[dapper drum]

yes

[cunning stump]

the exact same? buffer before loading and a buffer after unloading?

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't quite understand what you said, but someone answered for you.

[outer vale]

exact same, yes. And ideally using both ports on each side

if you're expecting to get a full belt or pipe through then you must use both ports

[cunning stump]

tbh idk how you ended up tagged in that

[tropic zephyr]

:D

[cunning stump]

in transporting a node of nitrogen gas, and im just running a mk 2 pipe with 300 per min in it to each station

[tropic zephyr]

please help me

[frigid solstice]

@tropic zephyr check dms boss

[tropic zephyr]

thanks dude

[dapper drum]

sorry eyes were elsewhere but @outer vale got you set straight

[cunning stump]

you think this would work fine?

[lucid ermine]

WHAT RECIPE DO I USE FOR SUPERCOMPUTERS RAHHH

[wind spade]

Have two groups of machines, one making 30 and one 44

[wind spade]

Which one makes most sense to you in a given situation

[half geyser]

I generally use whatever recipe requires the least amount of raw materials to make each unit of product

[wind spade]

That depends often on which resource you want to save

[half geyser]

Pretty much just three to consider

Power, space, and nodes

Usually space is a complete non-issue and power is for the most part a solvable problem

[west plover]

How should i add signals to make this work? Path at the end of station and block at the exit?

[meager kettle]

can't have stations inside path signals. need to block them off

i also dont see any reason for a path signal there. cause theres no multiple path option possible

[west plover]

I dont really understand train signals and ive been told path at entry and block at exit, but if theres a better way i dont mind

[meager kettle]

path at entry and block at exit is for intersections which have crossing tracks and multiple paths thru it

[west plover]

Gotcha, should i just use 2 block signals instead?

[meager kettle]

block off each station on entrance and exit

then you can place a block at each "tunnel" bit

#math-and-meta message second pic there can be an example of an intersection where path signals are mandatory

[west plover]

Something like this?

[meager kettle]

yea

[west plover]

I added a block signal at each entrance as well

I dont have any errors from what i can see atleast

[meager kettle]

any particular reason you have only one car per train? :p

[west plover]

Im not transporting that much material, usually less than 300 per minute, so i thought one would suffice?

Iron is going to be 1500/min, and then im going to need two or maybe even more

Is it block+block or path+block in this scenario?

[torn plaza]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3st6opd3w7

time the full round trip of your train and plot it on that graph, that will tell you how much one train car can move

[west plover]

@meager kettle If i want multiple trains on the same straight, do i need to have continous block signals along the straight?

[torn plaza]

yeah, block signals every few hundred meters

[west plover]

gotcha'

[torn plaza]

path signals on the entrance to that junction would allow multiple trains to go past each other if their paths don't conflict

[west plover]

I did that

[torn plaza]

don't forget block signals on the exits of the junction too

[torn plaza]

for 1500/min iron, assuming ~10 minute round trip time, you'd need 5 freight cars to manage that; five minutes, 3 freight cars

[west plover]

Phew im all out of computers now placing that many block and path signals. SHould i manually drive the train to each location and add x amount of seconds for docking?

[torn plaza]

i would just get the train driving itself between your stations

[west plover]

Are you kidding me i accedentally used path siganls instead of block signals along my 12km long straight

I guess ill have tol replace them all ffs

oh thank god it wasnt all the way

[unique cypress]

Yeah you will

Having all paths there is basically the same as having none at all

[west plover]

It was only 500m, so it wasnt that bad

Damn it i get a signaling problem after my train has docked at my iron mine. What could be casuing that? All signals are green back to the nuclear plant

[unique cypress]

Train yelling about a signalling problem usually means that the train would either have to drive through a signal in the wrong direction or drive through an errored out signal to get to its destination

[west plover]

Is this intersection problematic?

[unique cypress]

Looks fine

[west plover]

Nothing, all green, no signals on the wrong side. The paths are red, but saying "waiting for path reservation". No discontinuities, because i have manually driven the train the same way. Trains are a pain in the ass

[unique cypress]

Station in the correct direction?

And yeah that's the default state of path signals

Red signals are fine as long as they're facing forward

[west plover]

Give me a second ill check

[unique cypress]

Trains don't look at forward signals when planning a route

Unless they have errors, then I'm not sure. It might get there and stop, or not leave at all

[torn plaza]

a self driving train will tell path signals "give me a reservation of my route please", and the path signal will do that; that's the only time it'll turn green, it won't if you drive yourself

[west plover]

Yep, i even chnaged the intersection so that it doesnt cross tracks, still the saem issue

Same issue from different station, must be something along the teruen line

This one problematic?

[meager kettle]

yes

the tracks are signaled to both be in same direction

[west plover]

OH I SEE IT

[meager kettle]

need to flip the tracks going in and out of the station

[west plover]

I found the problem

[west plover]

Unrelated question, but is it possible to mine more than 780 items/min and transport them when you only have mk5 belts? I need 1000 caterium, right now i have one pure node tapped, which can produce 1200/min, with mk3 and 250% OC

[meager kettle]

not until tier 6 belts

unless you tap two nodes

[mint coral]

you gotta use multiple nodes

[west plover]

When do you unlock tier 6 belts?

[meager kettle]

phase 5

[west plover]

Gotcha, ill get this thing running, produce the nuclear pasta and then get the last 33 reactors running after getting mk6 belts

[west plover]

Very useful tool, i needed way more stations than i thought

[mint coral]

@brazen copper what is your current power setup from oil products?

[brazen copper]

ehh I have 3 oil generators I think.

Why?

[mint coral]

like what is your production chain? .

for example I take oil turn it into Heavy oil Residue then HOR to Packaged diluted fuel then i unpack it sending it to generators

[brazen copper]

Let me fly there

[mint coral]

what recipes are you using?

Okay so what i do is i take 90 oil and filter it though 3 refineries making 120 Heavy oil residue.

then a take that HOR and filter it through four refineries making Packaged Diluted Fuel

I made a blue print with a Packager making packaged water. sending the packaged water to a the refinery. The refinery outputs packaged fuel into another packager that unpacks it sending the empty containers to the water packagers and the Fuel to generators.

Here is the cool part. If you put a sloop in the refinery you double the packaged fuel I split half that off for drones and personaly use.

giveing you 360/min(60 per Packaged fuel refinery) for power and 360/min for personal use and drones

@brazen copper

@crimson scarab this maybe useful your fo too

[brazen copper]

I’m making coal and plastic

[brazen copper]

But by the geysers there water and oil. So I wouldn’t have transport it far

That where the problem lies. The distance

It’s like 2000 meters, I just might build a new train track

But that is a lot of resources just for what? I have everything I need at my main base

[tender saffron]

Quick question, does a fully overclocked coal generator require 113 water per minute or 112.5? If it's the former, I need 4 extra water per minute from my 3 water generators D:

[outer vale]

112.5

[tender saffron]

Nice

So it's a visual rounding thing

[mint coral]

I dont do the "main base" mind set. so i cant help you there

[brazen copper]

I meant where I started

I have everything I really needed in a 3000 meters radius,

[leaden depot]

Has anyone made 50x alien power matrix to triple your world power output? I suspect it might not be optimal for power vs slooping plutonium rods or something, but it still sounds cool. But a big production chain

[brazen copper]

Thanks anway!

[unique cypress]

You can make 10x augmenters + matrices for +300%, or quadruple power

And I did make that. Not recommended unless you'll end up above a TW afterwards. And at that point, it's just a vanity project

[leaden depot]

I feel like it may be more feasible with random/pure nodes. Having Sam and stuff available at one site may help lower the pain of it

[unique cypress]

The issue is the power consumption of the matrix production. It's 15-20 GW for 5/min. So you need the gain from that to be much higher than that for it to be worth it

[leaden depot]

The gains are unbounded though. They pay for themselves in power. But there isn’t much you need the power for if you can build that.

Ok, I’m done being reasonable, because it is a vanity project and I’m ok with that

[tropic zephyr]

That makes sense. Could I do this in Satisfactory Modeler? My problem isn't with the game itself, the game will be fixed. I use Satisfactory Modeler for calculations in my own plan.

[leaden depot]

In other news I much prefer the nuclear math on my pure world. 5 pure uranium nodes (in much less crappy locations) means I can make 60 uranium rods with the default recipe. Much cleaner.

[frosty owl]

It's as simple as having 2 nodes making those amounts (on each node, you can set limits on any parameter you want, like output/min or input/min or number of machines...)

[mint coral]

Music to my ears

[tropic zephyr]

I already did what you suggested, the problem is that, for example, out of 30 containers and 44, 30 go to the machine, but the models allocate 37 each, so 44 can't go to the machine; there aren't enough units.

[frosty owl]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. Do you have a picture of the plan (or just the part that is giving issues)?

[tropic zephyr]

1 second please

here is an example

In the game, it's easy to get 30 there, but since the modeler divide it by 3 here, the machines don't get the exact amount they need, and therefore I can't do my calculations.

[frosty owl]

What simulation mode are you using?
If you haven't, I suggest taking a look at the info aviable on the simulation modes (in the settings), as it's important to use the one that fits your needs

[tropic zephyr]

Yesterday, a friend sent me what I think is the original Satisfactory website, Satisfactory Logistics. I haven't quite figured out how to use it. If I could use it, I could design my website exactly the way I want, but I don't understand it.

[frosty owl]

It sounds like you might be using "Full" simulation, but expeting the results you'd get using the "manual" simulation instead

[tropic zephyr]

what is the simulation modes?

[frosty owl]

Sorry, I should have said "calculator" mode. It's under Settings -> General

[tropic zephyr]

in modeler right?

is this the problem

oh shit

[frosty owl]

It's part of the problem. You can read the details by clicking on the "?" icons.
If I understood your plan correctly, you should be able to achieve what you want in "Full" mode too, but you'd need to use Smart Splitters

[tropic zephyr]

I think I got some of the calculations wrong myself, but now that I'm doing it this way, the calculation error is fixed. Wow, and thanks man, I didn't know that!

[tropic zephyr]

Smart dividers can't solve this. i think

Because it doesn't separate them by number.

[frosty owl]

I'm not too familiar with "full" mode, but if you set the limits on all the other nodes consuming that item, with smart splitters you should be able to make sure that first all those nodes are fed whatever they need and only then the overflow goes to the container.

[tropic zephyr]

hmmm i will try it now

I didn't quite manage it, but thank you so much for teaching me this full mode and manual mode.

Do you know how to use Satisfactory Logistics?

It says this site is the original site, but I've never seen it on Discord, which is strange.

Oh, I misread it, it wasn't the original, I apologize.

[maiden lodge]

what are the heatmaps and what do they mean

[tropic zephyr]

wow its a big factory

[leaden depot]

Heat maps are radiation

Loose uranium chunks you can mine, or else uranium nodes or factories processing nukes

[ionic peak]

Wow that's unintuitive. I've had the same question but never found a toggle for that. Makes sense now

[leaden depot]

Are you on advanced resource mode? That looks like a lot

[maiden lodge]

i thouhgt mabye it was enemy heatmaps

[maiden lodge]

im on the normal mode

i started this save like 4 months ago, idk how to change it to advanced

[tropic zephyr]

yeah me too

[leaden depot]

Gotta start new I think

Guess it’s just random uranium clusters then. You can mine them once you have hazmat suit

[maiden lodge]

u can blow up loose resource nodes too

[leaden depot]

Srsly? Today I learned

[maiden lodge]

so useful i js use a explosive rebar gun

[maiden lodge]

i think for the experiemental all the enemies and resource clusters respawned, cuz i got rid of all the clusters and tehy're back

[mint coral]

its good. But there is a somethings that it cant do. The big shrooms in the blue crater for example

[maiden lodge]

i havnet gone blue crater yet, how do u get rid of the big blue shrooms

nukes?

[mint coral]

If a regular Noblisk cant do it you are SOL

[leaden depot]

Nuke nobelisks can get a few more things I think, can’t they? Like the huge mushrooms

[mint coral]

nothing more then a Regular Nob, Just bigger radious and cool graphics

[maiden lodge]

nuke raidus needs to be bigger because tell me why it can't kill all the hogs in a crash site

[leaden depot]

I want to build a porta potty sized nuke and watch it destroy a whole biome

[maiden lodge]

i want nukes to have longer lasting radiation

[leaden depot]

Anything that survives turns into the super nuke hog bosses

[coral marten]

does anyone better than me at fluid dynamics know if this will work? using mk1 pipes, the C's are coal gens

[meager kettle]

you might have issues with that

might work, but might also get sloshy fun times where the 240 meets the 120 in the 3rd pair

doing 180 from both ends would work better since then its four gens each

[coral marten]

is there a better way to do that than just making 4 extractors and underclocking them to 75%?

[meager kettle]

split the 3rd extractor so half goes either side

[brisk urchin]

works

[coral marten]

ty boss

[brisk urchin]

whole lotta efford for just coal gens imo

[meager kettle]

effort?

that took like an hour to build if not less

i didnt even bother to get the extractors evenly spaced on either side, thats sloppy for me :p

[brisk urchin]

man my early game normaly takes like 3 to 4h untill phase 2

[meager kettle]

oh it took like 5 hours to get to phase 2, 5000 smart plating

[brisk urchin]

only then i start to put in efford into factories

[cunning stump]

here's my coal power plant in the same area

[meager kettle]

nice :p

[soft anchor]

can someone please explain to me were the 100MW power draw comes from.

ok it's probably my hoverpack.

[meager kettle]

your hover pack

[maiden lodge]

hover pack wheter ur flying or not will draw 100mw, js take it of if u cant afford to lose power

[soft anchor]

Yeah I already figerd that thanks for the help regardless.

[half geyser]

Each water extractor’s output should connect to exactly two coal gens and nothing else, no other pipes. This makes it sooooooo much simpler, just clock the water extractors down to 75%.

[half geyser]

Ooooooooo very nice

💀

[shrewd whale]

Currently playing with randomised ore nodes on the experimental branch, and I'm trying to figure out how I want to approach the production chain. The randomised nodes mean I have to think more carefully about logistics, as I'm unlikely to have everything I need in one place. So I'm torn between doing something like in this screenshot, or keeping the first 2 boxes but sending the sorted resources to a mega-factory instead of sending them to satellite factories.

On the one hand, I think the idea of this set up is pretty interesting and unlike anything I've done before, but I'm also concerned that the overall efficiency could take a hit with so much time spent in trains/trucks and sorting. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[limpid vapor]

Sure, but it's not at all necessary, I think part of the lesson for coal power is that sometimes things have nice ratios, you just have to figure out how to connect stuff

Perfect 3:8

The lessons from piping the water for that ratio is something that's useful for the rest of the game

The setup on the diagram should work fine

[half geyser]

But t1 pipes cannot handle 3 water extractors

[meager kettle]

They can if you use two

180 in each

[half geyser]

I see how you’d do it

But since water is not limited the same way oil and other liquids/gasses are, I just don’t see why you’d want to go through annoying piping to save a little space

If you had t2 pipes then sure whatever but t1 at least imo is just not worth doing that for

[meager kettle]

Annoying? It's literally less effort

[half geyser]

effort outweighs the space saved

[half geyser]

The minimum effort would be 1 water extractor to 1 coal generator

But that’s wasting a ton of space

[meager kettle]

Absolutely not

[half geyser]

So 1:2 cuts the space wasted in half while keeping the effort still super low

Anything better than that saves comparatively little space for a pretty sizeable spike in effort

If you want it to be more efficient then, you’re better off overclocking the coal gens

so the 1:2 ratio maxes the water extractor out instead of clocking it at 75%

[meager kettle]

You're doing same amount of pipes. The effort is less with 3 extractors cuz it's one less to place and pipe

[half geyser]

4 individual 1:2 setups is easier to set up than 1 3:8 setup

I just don’t see how that’s not true

[meager kettle]

I really disagree

You're just adding more effort with four pipes Vs two

[half geyser]

Lemme see if a diagram might help

Maybe I’m interpreting something differently here

Is this accurate?

[meager kettle]

no

[half geyser]

what.

that works??

[meager kettle]

yes

its 2 pipes to 3 extractors into 8 gens

its literalyl the easiest setup

[half geyser]

Huh I can see how that piping works now, I just didn’t consider piping it quite like that

I’ve mostly treated pipes like conveyor belts for simplicity

Conveyor belts cannot do that

Not as simply, at least

Neat

[shrewd whale]

Yep, it works because the water is being dispersed evenly through the length of the pipe and each generator is taking some away. If you had those three extractors feeding into one t1 pipe in a straight line without looping/plugging one extractor into the manifold further down you'd run into problems though.

[half geyser]

As long as you never bottleneck anything, efficiency isn’t impacted by travel time, so both can work just fine

[half geyser]

I kinda visualize it as the second pipe looping around back to enter the manifold from the other side, so the furthest coal gens are getting their water from the second pipe while the closer ones get their water form the first one

[shrewd whale]

Yes that's what I was saying

[half geyser]

Like two manifolds moving toward each other to meet in the middle

Instead of one manifold going from one side to the other

With conveyors, that’s how it’d work

With pipes, they can all just be connected and it’ll just kinda work

no breaks needed cuz the pipe doesn’t always have a direction it pushes stuff in

If two meet head to head it’s not a big deal

[shrewd whale]

Again, that's what I was saying

[meager kettle]

you can do same with conveyors

[tropic zephyr]

I guess this is a traditional coal-fired power plant center for the game :D You've built a pretty good power plant, by the way. Wow!

[tropic zephyr]

perfection

[tropic zephyr]

what

how

[meager kettle]

splitters and mergers

basically doing exaktly that in my belt compressor off of the distilled silica blenders

[limpid vapor]

The diagram in the center is I think the easiest way to do it, it's all just a big loop, just like Neko's screenshot

No division or math necessary, just simple feed-from-both-ends type setup

That's how I've built all of mine too

[shrewd whale]

Likewise, by far the simplest way to do it

[tropic zephyr]

belt compressor

what is that

[tropic zephyr]

wow its make sense

[meager kettle]

in that case, takes 10 belts with 675 on each and compresses it to 5 belts with 1200 on each plus one left over with 750

[tropic zephyr]

They're like bidirectional.

So, is this something like optimizing in terms of the belt system?

[meager kettle]

no its just me not wanting ten belts

[tropic zephyr]

I understand :D

Thinking about it is difficult; it probably needs to be used in smart separators.

[meager kettle]

six sinks and storages instead of ten

it uses smart splitters and priority mergers

[tropic zephyr]

While I'm here, may I ask a few questions?

[meager kettle]

sure

[tropic zephyr]

Is using a buffer system mandatory in this game, because I don't want to build a factory that only produces 10,000 screws

And this is quite confusing.

I have a plan in mind: a factory for every item in each phase. I'm currently in phase 3 and I'm going to build 3 factories.

[meager kettle]

buffers have their uses but arent mandatory

[wind spade]

using buffers is practically pointless in this game

with a few small exceptions

[tropic zephyr]

The first factory will produce the items from phase 1, meaning the simpler ones, and those produced there will no longer go to another factory as "input" but will be for my own use.

[wind spade]

basically just buffering train platforms or end-line-storage

[meager kettle]

buffering something like dimensional depots or train stations, very useful. outside of that, not so much

[tropic zephyr]

These independent factories will have their own buffer systems, but the products manufactured in each factory will stay there.

[tropic zephyr]

I wasn't expecting this, especially from Greeny :D

[wind spade]

?

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't quite understand what you said.

[wind spade]

basically:

• buffering train platforms so that trains can load fully
• storing items for personal usage

are two uses of buffers/storages

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't understand how to buffer the train station.

[tropic zephyr]

I apologize if I was rude; I didn't mean to say anything offensive.

[wind spade]

           [ ISC ] -> belt -> [ train    ]
-> belt -> [     ] -> belt -> [ platform ]

[meager kettle]

just place a storage to the in or out of the terminal

and connect belts

[tropic zephyr]

What we call a buffer is, for example, a factory produces 1000 screws and puts them in a storage container. From there, they go to many factories, and let's say 950 are produced, and 50 are for my own use. Doesn't the storage container act as a buffer in this case?

[meager kettle]

like that

[tropic zephyr]

i know buffering like this

[wind spade]

no (and also, just have the 50 separate)

[meager kettle]

no its more like a storage than a buffer

[wind spade]

there's no reason for a storage like that

basically never put containers in the middle of a production line

[tropic zephyr]

What exactly is buffering?

[meager kettle]

buffers are for evenening out uneven distribution

like trains deliver many stacks in batches

and the feeds stop during load/unload

so the storage acts like a buffer to even out the parts

[tropic zephyr]

I guess I'm an idiot 😭

[meager kettle]

if you produce 100 items/min and then belt them into machines using 100/min, theres no need for a buffer, since its consuming what its making, theres no unevenness

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, that's what I'm explaining. I mean, there's no need to add storage in between. For example, a factory produces a very large quantity of a product, and that product goes to other factories as input. Let's say I produce 500 units; 400 go to those factories, and 100 remain for personal use. Isn't the storage where the 500 units are sent a buffer?

[meager kettle]

technically no

you're just storing the 100 extra over time

a buffer would be something like if you made 200/min for 30 seconds, then machines idle for 30 seconds, a storage could act like a buffer to even out the supply, since its stores the excess at 200/min and supplies the deficit when its not being made

prob will need to do that on a x2 material cost challenge run since for some recipes machines will have idle time

[tropic zephyr]

Why are the machines idle? If I bring in enough materials, they should work at 100% efficiency. By efficiency, I mean the number displayed inside the machines in the game; don't misunderstand me.

[meager kettle]

at x2 cost, some recipes will use between half a stack to a full stack, so you have idle time for it to refill until it can produce again

[tropic zephyr]

What exactly is this "x2 cost" we're talking about here?

[meager kettle]

1.2 challenge mode

its just an example of when a buffer would be useful

[tropic zephyr]

how do some recipes call for an ingredient that's somewhere between half and a whole?

[meager kettle]

no a stack

[wind spade]

never do

[meager kettle]

items stack to certain amounts

like iron plates go to 200

[ionic sapphire]

wonder if theyll change stack size behaviour at any point

[meager kettle]

at x2 cost a singularity cell will use a full stack of 200 iron plates in one production cycle. so you will have an idle time until those 200 are refilled

[ionic sapphire]

but it would be a pretty big change

[tropic zephyr]

I'm asking about the buffer system for the current game, I don't understand it.

[ionic sapphire]

which one does that
cant think of one, probably cuz they dont exist

[meager kettle]

buffers are only for evening out uneven supply

[tropic zephyr]

When does it become irregular?

[meager kettle]

i dont know how to explain it any simpler than that

[ionic sapphire]

train supply for example
or drones

[meager kettle]

train delivery for example

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't understand anything, I guess I'm an idiot.

[meager kettle]

or situation i described for x2 cost challenge mode

[tropic zephyr]

I didn't understand the train at all. What does production have to do with trains?

[meager kettle]

trains supply items in big batches

[ionic sapphire]

it has to do with irregular supply

[meager kettle]

its not a steady supply

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, because they have a large capacity, but if my factory produces little, how much can my train really carry anyway?

[meager kettle]

depends on train

distance of travel, speed, amount of cars

[tropic zephyr]

But at some point, doesn't it become clear how much it's carrying?

[meager kettle]

yes, but its still an uneven supply

it makes a delivery, then like minutes of nothing, then another delivery

its not like a belt

[ionic sapphire]

over a large amount of time it will average out yes, but train delivery and assembler consumption work in different timescales

[tropic zephyr]

How important can the route really be? Every train will travel at the same speed. Aren't trains just statistically faster versions of conveyor belts?

[ionic sapphire]

really important

10kkm will take way longer than 1km

[meager kettle]

speed varies on the amount of engines and cars and the slope of the tracks, but the more important factor is distance

[ionic sapphire]

then theres also traffic

which will make it even more irregular

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, but aren't you designing the factory accordingly? I mean, if a factory needs 60 iron bars per minute, and I bring 60 iron bars all at once, it will be idle for 60 seconds. But that would be the same as bringing one iron bar every second.

[meager kettle]

a train going from a to b will take a lot less time than a train going from a to c

[tropic zephyr]

But we're already designing the factory accordingly; whether I'm pulling the conveyor belt from an extremely long distance or from the bottom, it's the same thing.

[meager kettle]

thats not how trains work. if i feed a train station with 60/min, and i get 60/min at destination. its not contiously arriving, its coming in something like 300 over 5 minutes

so a buffer takes up those 300 and then supplies at 60/min

until next delivery

[ionic sapphire]

train stations already have a buffer built in, which will take care of that most of the time

its a buffer nonetheless tho

[meager kettle]

same at the input, its inputting 60/min until the train picks up 300 or w/e

[meager kettle]

yes, but train stations stop supply/input when unloading/loading, so the buffer storage evens that out

[tropic zephyr]

I don't understand the logic of this at all.

My brain can't process anything, I'm going to go crazy.

I didn't understand anything, absolutely nothing. i am a stupid i think

[trail osprey]

well if you're typing it out you aren't going as crazy as you think

🥀

[tropic zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-flight-reacts-ftc-gif-10344871754903558430

This is how I look at the screen right now

[cunning stump]

Thanks man!

[tropic zephyr]

As far as I understand, the buffer is just a backup?

[wind spade]

not really, more like stabiliser in needed cases

[tropic zephyr]

Anyway, let's skip that; it sounds like something I'll never use and will never understand.

Using the local factory until the end of the game shouldn't cause much of a problem, right?

Because I don't want to deal with sending 10,000 screws and 1,000 iron plates to different factories from one factory; I want all my factories to be local.

[tropic zephyr]

What percentage overclocking should I do to get the least usable power on the machine here? (as a whole number)

So, it's not just for this place; if you provide a formula, it would be more helpful.

[wind spade]

not sure what do you mean by "least usable power"?

[tropic zephyr]

I apologize for using translation, so sometimes my sentences may seem nonsensical.

Let me explain it in simpler terms.

What overclocking percentage should I use to get the minimum number of machines?

[tropic zephyr]

What formulas should I use in places like this?

[wind spade]

well, you need 266.6667% total clock speed

how you reach it is up to you

since one machine maxes at 250%, you need at least two

[tropic zephyr]

I want all machines to have the same overclocking percentage.

[wind spade]

[total %] / [desired number of machines] = [machine %]

[tropic zephyr]

You multiplied that number by one hundred, right?

I'm doing this calculation because I don't know the exact number of machines I need; I want to use the minimum number of machines possible.

I'm trying to minimize the number of machines by overclocking, but I have 4 machines at 250 RPM and the last one at 15 RPM. I don't want it like this; I want them all to have the same overclocking percentage.

The translation rendered it as RPM, but please consider it as overclocking rate.

[wind spade]

yeah, it's just simple math like this

[tropic zephyr]

I think I've found the formula I was looking for, thank you for your help, but I guess you didn't quite understand me.

[wind spade]

I posted the formula above 🤔

[tropic zephyr]

The formula you're using specifies the number of machines required; for me, that's a variable, not a fixed number.

[wind spade]

yeah, you use the number you want

[unique cypress]

If you want the minimum number of machines, you increase that number until the result is above 250% (or 100% if you're not using overclocking), then you decrease it by 1 and you've got your answer
Both the number of machines you need and the clock speed they should be set to

[tropic zephyr]

I don't have a specific number in mind here; I'm trying to get the minimum number of machines. I want that number, and since I don't know it, I can't use your formula.

[wind spade]

I already said you need at least two, since one wouldn't cut it

[wind spade]

here ^

[thorn trail]

I think he wants the minimum number of machines that they all have the same equal overclocking rate.

[wind spade]

which is... two

[tropic zephyr]

Hmm, I see what you're saying now. Okay, I understand. I apologize, I missed it because I was translating the sentences one by one and the chat was moving a bit fast.

Annoying Greeny is the last thing I'd ever want to do; the guy owns the thing I use most often these days.

[outer vale]

for a more step by step

• take the total clock speed required
• divide by 250% then round up to get the number of machines
• take the total clock speed again, divide by the number of machines to get the clock speed per machine

[tropic zephyr]

Thank you for your help, I solved the problem.

Should I use the data on the right or the data on the left within the game?

i dont understand on the right it says .05 at on the left it says .1 ?

[outer vale]

guessing the left is rounding

so you probably want the right

I don't know anything about that tool

[tropic zephyr]

its satisfactory logistics

[leaden depot]

5x power consumption is only barely viable, even in sandbox mode. 1200 coal gives me 6GW at cost of ~4.45GW. Water extractors could be clocked down a bit to increase the margin, but at space cost.

[leaden depot]

Of all this, 96 generators, 75% of them are just powering the water/miners. 24 gens left give me 4500MW for the next phase.

rocket fuel is possibly more efficient, but I'm guessing nuclear is gonna be net-negative

[trail osprey]

nuclear has ways to expand past just the regular usage, so it really isn't if you consider those alternatives

but yeah rocket fuel is mostly all you will ever need

[leaden depot]

If I calculate right, 120 rocket fuel costs 1GW exactly with a slight underclock. (excluding miners and oil). And that is enough for ~7.2GW. So way better return.

[trail osprey]

mhm, most people go for 144GW setups though

if you set up the processing right one node of crude oil can give that amount

coal is really just a mediator until oil i feel like

[leaden depot]

Yeah, but I gotta make it modular enough to bootstrap on my ~4.5G from coal.

[trail osprey]

i was able to generate 30gw off my original 3gw moving from coal to oil

and i was super innefficient

😭

[leaden depot]

I'm at 5x power cost. Adding small amounts of things tends to blow breakers

[trail osprey]

yikes

[mental crater]

if i'm planning on using all* bauxite for aluminum, should i use instant scrap or sloppy-electrode? i'm leaning towards instant scrap because i would rather use blenders in my build than just refineries, but the issue is that i don't know if 3100 sulfur being used will cause problems in the later game as i haven't planned ahead that far

(i would only be using 9300 bauxite because i'm leaving 3 nodes for legacy production)

[dapper drum]

sulfur is a main component of compacted coal, which can be used for ||turbofuel|| and therefore also ||rocket fuel||

i would be cautious with your sulfur use for only that reason

[mental crater]

i mean i already have a 150MW rocket fuel plant and ill be doing nuclear next, so im not sure that thats a worry

[dapper drum]

in that case, i wouldn't see why not if it meets your yield needs

sulfur is used in some nuclear refinng though i'm not sure how much you'd actually need

[trail osprey]

sloppy-electrode and insta scrap have the same bauxite to scrap ratio, however sloppy electrode seems easier to manufacture only needing some oil processing

though you said you have rocket fuel so im assuming you're using convenient oil nodes for that

also sulfur is pretty important for some things so not using all your nodes for just aluminum comes in handy

[vapid gorge]

not unless you're uding a lot of suflur in other things
but isntant scrap or sloppy electrode get you the same amount, except instant uses a bunch of sulfur and has abou the same amount of machineries and nonsense

much easlier to do electrode and just use a bit of oil

[trail osprey]

literally what i just said bruh 😭

[vapid gorge]

I also included that it's totals about the same machine count too 😛

[meager kettle]

Important for what? There is enough sulfur to use 4100 for instant scrap (all 12300 bauxite). 3200 for rocket fuel (makes 4800 with nitro, way more with turbo blend) and 3300 for nuclear (all 2100 uranium) what else do you need it for?

There's even 300 left to make bombs/ammo with

[trail osprey]

nerd

don't be nitpicky

[half geyser]

I still need about 3000 for my sulfur collection which for some reason demands constant input (I’m scared of what it’ll do to me if I stop feeding it)

[trail osprey]

rocket fuel

[crimson moat]

caterium processing, but yeah dont super need that

you need some caterium to save on copper, which bottlenecks big builds because of items like nuclear pasta, but you probably wont run out of caterium even if you use it all of the time and just make it with the pure recipe.

[meager kettle]

yes, but the pure recipes work perfectly with fused recipes :p dont see sulfur mandatory for that

[crimson moat]

yeah well aside from the instant scrap, rocket fuel, nuclear and better caterium, what has the sulfur ever done for us? 😄

[meager kettle]

lets us blow stuff up :D

[half geyser]

Blackout 😨

[trail osprey]

6k mw for time crystals 🥀

or 8k i don't remember

least the factory looks ok

not my best work basically just a box

[half geyser]

Huh

[lucid ermine]

where is a good place to build a factory that produces 20 cooling systems and 20 radio control units? or should i build seperate factorys?

i have 2 recipes im gonna use it for it:
sloppy aluminum
pure aluminum ingot

i only have mk2 miners but i can oc

are there any other recipes i should get to make the process easier?

[vapid gorge]

make a plan with your recipes, look at the raw resource needs, compare it to locations on the map 🙂 https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[lucid ermine]

i was hopin some1 would do dat for me brochaco

brotato this is alot of resources to find in like 1 place

unless i train like 90% of it to 1 place

[vapid gorge]

find the majority of it in one spot, go from there

[serene timber]

hey guys, newish player here starting a new save. Is it recommended to have smelters as the starting point in a factory line setup, or should you build a smelting plant offsite and then just have belts of the ingots go into the factory? Not sure whats the best long-term option for organisational purposes

[vapid gorge]

matter of personal choice

[trail osprey]

the latter

[ionic sapphire]

if it was easier to build i would say the former
but the latter is just so much better for blueprinting

[vapid gorge]

treat the milestones as a tutorial - your needs are going to change so fast with new mechanics that futureproofing isn't really a practical thing

[ionic sapphire]

also former would be better if you choose to replace a step with a better recipe

[vapid gorge]

@worn sigil with aluminium you can still reuse the waste water in the solution step by having some of the solution refineries run only on the waste water.

just need to clock it right
blue line is fresh, red is waste https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1347741162018046083/1347747308623892551/image.png?ex=69c09b7e&is=69bf49fe&hm=2b43dc494d193275cf5045e1eebe3b8f726be0bf167f0b920a86a7a861895185&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[serene timber]

I see, thanks for the help guys

[worn sigil]

i was just kinda lazy to reroute it back for more production, bc im getting more water then i use as input, so i sent it over to my coal refinery to make it easier

[vapid gorge]

ah, well if you're slooping things you gotta deal with it

[fast cipher]

hope its correct chanell for souche questions. not sure which recipe i should go for (got alt in mam)
i plan to bring caterium to base anyway (dune base so got 2 pure, 1 normal)

quickwire one would save me steel and conrete while the other one caterium
plan to use fused wire/ both copper and caterium one

[tender saffron]

Does anyone know why my coal train turns right here instead of left when their destination is left?

[meager kettle]

cause theres an error preventing it from going left

[tender saffron]

The problem is that now they're driving through a station they they don't belong in and taking a massive detour

Yeah, I figured, but I don't understand what it is.

[meager kettle]

follow the track left

try drive manually, see if it derails somewhere, or if you approach station from wrong direction or something

[tender saffron]

I just drove through it, it works just as expected. Once it's on the right rail heading to the left, it drives just fine through the station and back out

[vapid gorge]

quickwire stator mainly saves on steel in exchange for a more rare resource
funilly enough, you need less caterium if you use the alt Caterium Wire, and make normal stators

[fast cipher]

i not sure how much caterium i gonna need later on
i plan to use 1 pure node for caterium silica circuits

[tender saffron]

There is only one path going in and out of my stations too.

I guess I'll just remove the right turn for now lol

[fast cipher]

per 8 stators.
while i am definitely going to make pure caterium later on

i gonna have now 90 ingots per/m production (caterium), and it would increase to about 135/m on t3 belts

[tender saffron]

Damn, I just removed the right turn and it completed the left turn without issue, which means it's actively choosing to go right instead. What the heck.

[fast cipher]

do u mean this recipe?

so trading 2.5X caterium for 33% less steel i guess it isnt worth

[wind spade]

Whichever you like the most / makes most sense for your given scenario

There's no "good" or "bad" recipe

[fast cipher]

idk, i not using any caterium since i am belting it to base

also i never got past phase 3 so no idea about later recipes

[wind spade]

Just use what you like now

Future builds can use future recipes

[mint coral]

this is why ive been avoiding plubber lol

[wind spade]

What is the problem there?

[mint coral]

there is no problem I just look at it and my gut says no lol

[tropic zephyr]

what is plubber?

[mint coral]

the Merging of the two words Plastic and Rubber.

As seen above making large quantities often requires the merging of the two

#math-and-meta message

[tropic zephyr]

Hmm, I understand, thank you.

I think I've managed to solve the storage problem as well. For example, if I produce 100 iron plates, 22.5 will go to the warehouse and the rest to the machine. If I use a level 1 belt as you suggested, and adjust it with separators to send 15 items to the warehouse per minute, I can send exactly the number I want to the warehouse using the manifold system, meaning it will automatically balance to 22.5.

Do you think this makes sense? Is it an efficient method, or is there something more efficient?

[outer vale]

for a "send items to somewhere but send excess/overflow somewhere else" setup, smart splitters are usually the way

configure one output to Any (or the actual item), and another to Overflow, then items will all go out that first output until it's all backed up, then any excess will go down the Overflow

[tropic zephyr]

Okay, but if I use a straight separator, 50 will go to the warehouse and 50 to the machine, but the machine needs to get 77.5. There won't be an overflow; on the contrary, there will be a shortage. The warehouse will take a long time to fill, and the goods in the warehouse will never be full because as soon as it's full, it will go to the sink. So there will be continuous production.

I think I understood what you said, a little bit.

[outer vale]

and this is why I said Smart Splitter, it lets you change how it prioritises output

[tropic zephyr]

I think I'm really stupid.

[outer vale]

it's a different thing to the normal Splitter, you unlock it in the MAM

[tropic zephyr]

I'm thinking from a very narrow perspective while playing this game, damn it.

[tropic zephyr]

I understand what you're saying. What I need to do is put a smart splitter behind the machine that inputs 77.5, so that the machine always receives the required amount, and any excess goes to the storage. Is that how I need to do it?

[outer vale]

yes, that'd work. Anywhere between the point where it's all made, and the point where it's all used

[tropic zephyr]

Thank you very much for this simple information.

I wonder if I can't think of these things because I'm stupid, or because I still have 100 hours

[cedar folio]

Smart splitters DON'T let you split a certain amount of an item... They just let you split different items.

[outer vale]

indeed, they don't give you any more precise control beyond just overflowing

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, yes, I know, it's quite useful in a manifold system because it has the ability to carry away excess material.

[tropic zephyr]

Wouldn't a pipe loop create pipes with infinite water carrying capacity?

[dapper drum]

https://tenor.com/qLlARYuouJO.gif

excuse me?

[tropic zephyr]

I don't know either; I'm saying this based on what I've learned here.

[fervent spire]

aaaaaaa it's so close to being perfect whyyyyyyy lmao

[fervent spire]

every pipe segment can still only 1) hold a certain amount of water, and 2) send water at a max flow rate of either 300 or 600
the reason you see the loops on inputs to machines is just to prevent the far end of the machines from getting less water and making it easier for the entire system to stay full. but it will still only let at most 600 flow through any given pipe segment if it's mk2

the loop isn't strictly necessary. it's just there to smooth out some of the weirdness that comes from the realistic fluid simulation

[limpid vapor]

That's not the only reason to use loops, feeding a system from both ends also means you are effectively halving the required flow rate per segment

[split fog]

Anyone has a good setup for Fuel generators and Crude oil stuff (making fuel, plastic, rubber, etc.)?

[tropic zephyr]

Is this very small percentage something that will cause a problem?

Because I'm writing but it's rounding off.

[gray peak]

that second image overclock percent looks like a floating point error ngl

[tropic zephyr]

what does that mean?

"floating point error"

[oblique hollow]

error due to accuracy of the number type which computers use to do math

[tropic zephyr]

These are things I don't understand very well, but thank you.

[long bridge]

what steps do i need to take to have a train car handle 1000 gas/min?

[wind spade]

add enough cars

[long bridge]

no. i mean. in one car

[wind spade]

1000/min per car seems pushing it too far

[long bridge]

is it possible to do 3k/min with 1 train that has 3 cars

what is a soft limit for each car, then?

[wind spade]

I wouldn't put more than 600 in one car

[long bridge]

really? okay

[wind spade]

same as I wouldn't put more than one belt

add more cars/trains if not enough throughput

[long bridge]

i mean, i have buffer ISC for each freight platform that has 1 belt going into ISC and then 2 from ISC into platform, so the ISC drains quicker than it fills to help quickly reload the station when it locks it for loading

So if i do a train with 5 cars, should i add a second engine?

[wind spade]

depends how fast do you want it to go and with how much acceleration

and what the route looks like

[long bridge]

its not going that far, but its for primary power supply so id like it to be reliable, plus i found out my ramps are too steep, so 1 engine loses speed going up (i think its close to like 2.5m slope)

[long bridge]

The orange bus I want to be a train. im going to pipe the others, but i WANT to use trains because they are way more cool than a bunch of pipes

actually id rather use trains for all of them, but the others are too close for me to justify

[wind spade]

what "bus"? 🤔

[long bridge]

the orange rectangle

[wind spade]

yeah but wdym by bus

[long bridge]

nothing. Just thinking of it as a computer BUS, trains going both ways and all

[trail osprey]

where do most people make their nuclear plants

[long bridge]

ive always done west coast, but i dont think thats a math / meta question

[trail osprey]

ok

[wind spade]

if it's just a belt from one side to another, it's not really a bus. Bus is when you split it to factories and merge back products

[trail osprey]

anyone else

[wind spade]

factory? near resources it needs
actual plants? just above any water

[long bridge]

was just thinking of it as a bus because trains go both ways, it doesnt really matter, youre right.

[trail osprey]

i've noticed your answers are usually pretty vague

[long bridge]

its not a bus, but regardless. You said 600/min per car, so ill do 5 cars, i guess ill do double engines, does double engine need double stations? Do i have to set time table for both engines?

[long bridge]

well yes, because this game is about YOU designing your own factory, he wants you to figure it out for yourself but gives general advice/guidance

[wind spade]

no, you can do just empty platform

[long bridge]

same with what im asking, i want his opinion on a logistical issue, im not asking him if i should be doing something and where

[long bridge]

okay! Thank you

[trail osprey]

ok sure, but im asking where other people tend to put their nuclear plants

[wind spade]

well, how can I give more concrete answer to such vague question?

[long bridge]

go ask in the general sat chat, not math and meta.

[trail osprey]

how is, "where do people like to put nuclear plants" a vague question?

[wind spade]

just uranium? or also plutonium? or even ficsonium? including waste storage? including the actual plants? which recipes for each step? importing intermediates or making them onsite? how much production? etc.

all those would affect my decision on where would I build it

[trail osprey]

i think you're confused man

[wind spade]

?

[long bridge]

greeny what happened to you only playing 50 hours of satisfactory 😛

[wind spade]

still nothing

[trail osprey]

i'm not asking for specifics, I want to know where people usually end up making nuclear plants

[wind spade]

yeah, and I gave you the answer of "it would depend"

[fast cipher]

i am thinking of making turbo fuel/normal fuel power plant,
would this region be enough for both it and producing plastic and rubber?
how much raw oil i would need for it
never made it

[long bridge]

Crazy low numbers for someone so entrenched in the community, always answering my stupid questions

[long bridge]

absolutely. The ammount of crude depends on the ammount of fuel you want to make

[wind spade]

well, it can always make some plastic and rubber

but as always, depends how much you need

[trail osprey]

usually 1 pure node worth of crude oil is what people go for

[long bridge]

If you want most fuel per Crude, id do diluted fuel and then turn that into turbo fuel

[long bridge]

huh? no? Ive never used that little oil

[trail osprey]

ok

[wind spade]

that seems like a random number lol

[trail osprey]

you aren't most people im sure

[fast cipher]

i currently max 2500mv and produce 3000mv
i propably gonna expand coal first since 500mv might be not enough

[long bridge]

i mean... most people i see talking about it, do much more than 1 pure

[ionic sapphire]

no reason not to

free power

[fast cipher]

also propably would be best to move all the oil and build on top of ocean?

[wind spade]

yeah then work backwards to see how much oil you need for that

[trail osprey]

ok, you clearly don't see many people i guess

[wind spade]

or build near oil 🤷 fluids in general are easier if not moved

[fast cipher]

right i can build high enough

but then i would need to pump oil

[long bridge]

diluted fuel is pretty simple, if you use the diltued packaged alt (assuming no blenders) you can easily setup a blueprint that can handle creating HOR, packaging water, making packaged fuel, and unpackaging fuel all in one. If you mess with clocking, you can do all this and have 1 bp that powers 4 generators (making 80 fuel/min per blueprint) that takes in 30 crude, so this means you can easily scale this with every purity of crude

[trail osprey]

better than moving it cross-map

[fast cipher]

ye i just planned to move to ocean

[long bridge]

i normally build out in the water for crude

i can send a pic from scim of my tiny one

it makes about 20 GW

[fast cipher]

i mean region i marked on red, so i have easy acess to water (thought dindt look much at recipes i need to hunt drives or rerrol (11 recipes) i stored

[long bridge]

it was just to hold me over till nitro rocket, but aparently that didnt work because im brushing against the max

[long bridge]

are you doing tfuel or normal fuel? i have been skipping tfuel because rocket is so much better (imo) so i do fuel -> rocket

[wind spade]

I would skip RF

[fast cipher]

thinking about turbo never went fuel way

[trail osprey]

imo turbofuel is just annoying to make

[long bridge]

id recommend skipping either tfuel or rocket fuel.

ofc you CAN do both, but no need really

[trail osprey]

it could have just been my terrible designing but I prefer making rocket fuel

[long bridge]

with just diluted fuel, you can get 20GW of power from 600 crude/min

this is my starter fuel plant, was to jump me to RCU for blenders

[fast cipher]

right there no sulfur or coal nearby

[long bridge]

its tileable, so thats 20 blueprints per 300 crude, then just connect the pipes

[fast cipher]

how much is turbo better than normal for jetpack?

[long bridge]

trains are easy solution to that. but you dont need to do tfuel

[trail osprey]

much better

[long bridge]

dont worry about jetpack

[wind spade]

different

[trail osprey]

?

[fast cipher]

making train there gonna be pain,
do u build them like in factorio, i mean do u separate stations from rails

[long bridge]

i have stations seperate from rails, yes

[tropic zephyr]

Am I making the right progress in building a factory?

[long bridge]

i have T junctions for the train to turn towards the station

[fast cipher]

i tried using solid fuel jetpack and i prefere parachute xd

[tropic zephyr]

I am constructing it from left to right, from top to bottom, as shown in the diagram.

[long bridge]

solid fuel is awful. normal fuel or LBF

[fast cipher]

i dont have oil yet

[long bridge]

LBF for distance, packaged fuel for height. Tfuel is better, but if you really want that, setup a SMALL tfuel plant just for jetpack.

[fast cipher]

i mean i dindt went to to get it

[long bridge]

liquid biofuel just requires packager and refiner

[fast cipher]

ty is there way to automate biomass?

[long bridge]

its water and solid biofuel + the package (requires plastic without alts)

[fast cipher]

ye know how it works,

[long bridge]

no, but you can setup constructors to make it for you when you put in wood/leavs

[trail osprey]

no

[fast cipher]

i guess osasis on dunes gives a lot

[long bridge]

most people sloop the solid step, but also, you really dont need all that much lbf, lasts a while

[fast cipher]

and i can biomass enemies

[long bridge]

i just run normal fuel till higher tier fuel, i usually just make packaged fuel at computer factory from HOR byproduct

[fast cipher]

what hor

[long bridge]

but if you setup a fuel plant, id recommend using HOR alt and diluted packaged fuel alt, makes the crude go a long way for power.

[long bridge]

heavy oil residue alt

[tropic zephyr]

can someone help me with this

[fast cipher]

ah yes its great

used it on my 1.0 run but i took to long break

[long bridge]

what do you need help with? what are you making? what is the goal of your factory? Input numbers? Issues youre having? More details please 🙂

[fast cipher]

i coudnt expand my factory because how i build it

[wind spade]

seems you're doing fine? what help do you need?

[long bridge]

ive been playing since 0.1, but yeah i keep taking long breaks

still figuring out when to use path signals instead of block signals because back in my day trains just clipped through each other haha

[wind spade]

you can just use blocks everywhere

[long bridge]

i AM using blocks everywhere, but dont paths make intersections better?

[tropic zephyr]

I'm building a factory according to a diagram, and as I wrote above, I'm trying to build it from left to right and top to bottom as shown in the diagram. Is this the correct way to do it, or do you have any other suggestions for factories built according to diagrams?

[wind spade]

in some cases, but "better" is usually not that much needed

[fast cipher]

started just before 1.0, so when it released i didnt see much point in playing on pre 1.0 world
my factory broke because ores got moved

[long bridge]

i dont like that modeler, i like greeny's tool, but id build from RAW forward. so I normally bring in all the raw resourcesc (or if i have them made offsite i bring those in) and then work them from there, irregardless of what the modeler looks like

[tropic zephyr]

As I said in the question, I just wrote it #math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

there's no "correct" way to build factories. If you have fun, it's correct 🙂

how you physically place the machines depends just on you

[long bridge]

i have some heavily traversed intersections (using trains to bring in around 10k bauxite/min) so trains need to keep running quickly

[tropic zephyr]

Yes, what you said is true, but I still wanted to ask because I don't want to do anything wrong.

[wind spade]

making the junction non-crossing 3D helps much more than path signals

[long bridge]

wdym non crossing 3d

[wind spade]

well, same thing - there's no "wrong" as long as you're having fun 🙂

[wind spade]

instead of crossing rails, build a bridge

[long bridge]

they arent 3 dimensional junctions if you look from the top lol

oh, that wouldnt work for the intersection design

[fast cipher]

right its 3d game xd

[tropic zephyr]

f you say so, then it's true, I'll continue doing it that way. I've finally been struggling for a week to figure out how to get past phase 3 and I'm active in the game, but I have school tomorrow.😭

[tropic zephyr]

I wish I could get rid of my need to do everything perfectly while playing this game; I even try to adjust the lampposts perfectly.

[long bridge]

i mean, i could probably help more, but i dont understand what issues youre having

[tropic zephyr]

thanks

[long bridge]

this is a top down of my intersections

[wind spade]

why 4 tracks

[long bridge]

i dont have the current save (because i rebought the game on steam and dont have it cloud save setup)

its a 2 layer train

#screenshots message
mines not as cool as some of the designs, but i like it

also hard to see, you can see the ones in the background better

[wind spade]

sounds like unnecessary extra rails

[long bridge]

no

not unnecessary.

[ionic sapphire]

looks like there arent any over-unders ?

[long bridge]

wdym over-unders?

the top branches out in some locations, the bottom in others, its 2 seperate rail line/loops

[ionic sapphire]

rails that go over or under other rails

[long bridge]

trains always drive on the right side, top trains will never get to the bottom rail and vice cersa

[ionic sapphire]

so they dont intersect

[long bridge]

not the top and bottom, but the top layer does intersect

i mean to say, they intersect when i make T or 4 way crossings

(or roundabouts) i wanna make some of those, but havent come up with a design i like yet

[wind spade]

roundabouts are worst junctions lol

if you need 4 tracks worth of throughput, you definitely don't wanna do roundabouts, and probably not T junctions

[long bridge]

tbh, as far as that goes, idrc, they are cool lol

[wind spade]

(if you don't need 4 tracks worth of throughput, then, as I said above, they are unnecessary 🙂 )

[long bridge]

and the 4 lanes is because i have tracks running around the whole world waiting to have items on them

in example, i have my 10k bauxite input split to 2 levels were i have 2 trains coming on the top and 2 on the bottom

the bottom trains stay on the bottom of the rail system, the top stay on the top of the rail system

[wind spade]

sure, but if you have that much throughput, you definitely don't want T junctions

(and if you don't, you could've just merged the two tracks)

[long bridge]

okay 🤷‍♂️

[tropic zephyr]

I'm finally building a factory in this game! The game has been AFK for the past week, and I was just doing calculations. Designing factories in the game is really addictive; it's finally "satis"fying.

[ionic sapphire]

its too tedious to really be satisfying

[long bridge]

the game isnt tedious! It is so satisfying

[long bridge]

you shouldnt need to afk factories, if you do, then you arent producing enough, get to it pioneer, make ADA proud

[tropic zephyr]

When I say AFK, I mean I didn't have any factories in the game anyway; the game was just open, and I was doing calculations in the background. But I will do the task you mentioned in the best way possible :DDD

[tropic zephyr]

Wait a minute, your profile picture shows a Kangal dog, are you Turkish?

[long bridge]

i was just teasing btw, play how you want!

kengal dog? no? its a labrador retriever, and no im not.

[tropic zephyr]

Oh, I thought it was a Kangal dog. :D

[tropic zephyr]

I know it's okay :D

[tender nest]

does anyone know how i can bring down 480 coal per minute to my aluminium factory without just making a belt spam?
drones arent an option since i havent unlocked those yet

[long bridge]

id recommend either setting up trains or making a nice blueprint for the belts

you can make "bridges" for the belts to go on to keep them nice and neat

[tender nest]

i dont have that much space for trains tbh

[wary tulip]

Use a truck.

Easy to set up. Max throughput with double output belts.

[tender nest]

i have one train for alclad aluminium and thats massive

[tender nest]

hm ok

ill consider both ideas though

as in trucks and belt blueprints

[long bridge]

i mean.. 1 train with 3 cars is not too big

you can have it stop at 3 places to pickup coal (just keep in mind your total train time versus throughput)

[wary tulip]

Vehicles have a much faster and cheeper set up time.

[tender nest]

im just not the biggest fan of trains in the game lol

[long bridge]

but, trucks are easy for coal, you just need to bum a little coal from the nodes

[wary tulip]

And you can use the coal to power the trucks 🙂

[long bridge]

trains are amazing though!

[tender nest]

but regardless thanks for the advice

[tender nest]

true..

[wary tulip]

Trains are amazing, but also time consuming.

[long bridge]

nahhh

once you get some basic infrastructure up, adding new stations is easy

i spent a dozen hours or so setting up rails running across the map, now i can just add stations where i want

this is most recent picture i sent (they have been expanded since) but the pink are all central rails that i can conect to

[tender nest]

i dream to have worlds like that someday

[half geyser]

You can also clip belts through each other so they look like 1 belt

[long bridge]

ew wtf no

[grand lotus]

how tf do i power the buildings and stuff?

b4 anybody tells me to use another tool, i wanted to use a planner to do calculations n stuffg

[ionic sapphire]

"a planner"

im guessing the tool youre using has an interface that shows total power consumption across all buildings

[grand lotus]

at the top, yeah

[ionic sapphire]

and thats not what you want ?

[grand lotus]

wait what

[ionic sapphire]

the other possibility im seeing is that you wanted to know why the 3 left windows show 0W at 0% production

which is likely because they dont have any inputs (or output in case of the extractor)

so theyre not working

[grand lotus]

if i hook up the fuel gens to them they turn green and start production

which means they need power but im just confused how to do it

[ionic sapphire]

im imagining connecting buildings is done by dragging their input icon to a fitting output icon of another window

the tool probably automatically checks how fast a machine has to work and sets the % accordingly

[grand lotus]

nvm gang im not using ts 😭

for 300 turbofuel

[maiden lodge]

this looks complicated because you are using a weird planner

if it were shown in steps instead of machines it would look easier

[maiden lodge]

this one is simple enough

[vapid gorge]

that's ONE of the caterium wire recipes
there's one thats also just caterium to regular wire

[vapid gorge]

I didn't think it was possible, but you found a planner I hate the diplay of more than modeler. impressive

not only does it lack any labling but the node connections and layout is just painful

[half geyser]

I do like that the connections are color-coded at least

but uh it just seems overbuilt yeah

[cunning stump]

i use modeler a lot, why do you not like it? and what do you use?

[vapid gorge]

it's a layout tool, you can't change the whole process if you want to change even 1 recipe, you have to manually edit EVERYTHING
from what I've seen there's tons of complaints it's slow
there's no lables on anything
the only things it can do that tools can't is basically break up the nodes into multiple recipes in teh same line... which is just not something you ever really need and if you really want you can just have an input on tools that does the same thing

plus it's basically just riding on the fact you use it on steam as a convenience platform. Same reason taht if a game's dev doesn't put their game on steam that it'll basically see no light of day even if it's amazing

The UI is awful. Just truly garbage.

If it was made as a web page tool it would have died choking on it's own crap

[cunning stump]

i could see that, and ive def had my troubles with it, but it does kinda help my ADHD brain visualize a checklist of things to do

[vapid gorge]

I haven't seen a planner that doesn't give you the bubbles you need that work as basic layouts. You save a ton of time with almost any other planner and can use that time to practice the actual building which lets you avoid planning every splitter

[somber sedge]

i am very upset

[vapid gorge]

rip

[somber sedge]

i spent so much time making this factory only to realize i could have saved so much iron if i made everything using steel

[vapid gorge]

you actively used the iron pipe, that chews through iron, and you're surprised? :\

steel replacements almost almost universally big iron savings for a bit of coal

you can also more easily play with your plans with sftools by swapping recipes in and out in a second to see the overall changes

[somber sedge]

well, i learned my lesson

[vapid gorge]

avoid all those refineries with a touch of copper too https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ZCrYNuK2xx8BpFzWDMSN

[somber sedge]

:(

man i messed up big time, didnt i>