math-and-meta

[orchid brook]

is it smart idea to turn the power off for the whole factory and then back on? or at least the rubber section?

[merry sedge]

to fill up the pipe it may go faster if you do that

but i dont recommend turning off all your power

maybe some excess generators if you have any

[orchid brook]

just the rubber section?

[merry sedge]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

machines don't accept items if they are powered off

[merry sedge]

like if you are generating 9000 mw and you are only using 3000 you can turn off a couple

[vapid gorge]

except for generators

[orchid brook]

i mean the pipes

[vapid gorge]

fluids are also items

[orchid brook]

i aint gone risk it

just turn off a coble

ok done all of the machiens are full of fuel

[merry sedge]

turn them on

do something else in the meantime, check on it a while later

[orchid brook]

ya like the choo choo

that is what i do come back every now and then

is a back up of fuel bad like do i have to find a way to sink extra fuel until it runs at 100%?

cuz a lot are backing up

and the rubber made from the HOR is not used in plactic and is sinked so i can get away with it backing up

[merry sedge]

idk what ur factory looks like, but if you want full output yes you should sink excess products

burn more fuel or make more stuff to sink

[orchid brook]

when i learend about this game didnt think i would hate my life over fuel blenders running at 93%

i really wanna just leave it like this but... my damn ocd

[merry sedge]

did you sink all the exces products?

otherwise it might just be a fluid issue where it slogs too much

[orchid brook]

i sink everything except fluids

[wind spade]

yeah you can't sink fluids anyway

[orchid brook]

like packge

btw it didnt look like i needed that extra space anywa

[merry sedge]

nah dont bother packaging the excess fluid, just make more stuff and make it overflow into a sink

[orchid brook]

ya that is what i am doing and will do

i manily did these cuz of the numbers

i know its obvise but what is better having more trains or more carts?

[trail osprey]

more carts if your throughput is high

[orchid brook]

ok

[trail osprey]

yo wait how'd you get those heavy frames to split off into .5

my smart splitter doesn't do that

[orchid brook]

idk i am gone do that later

[trail osprey]

🥀

[orchid brook]

its just a plan

[trail osprey]

oh alr

[orchid brook]

fueture me problem i guess

bye i have been playing for 5h

[wind spade]

single splitter, let it self-balance

[unique cypress]

regular splitter can do that

[somber sedge]

thought it was cool how far everything flew off

wait the image is sending

[simple thorn]

Does a full pipe of rocket fuel fuel exactly 144 fuel generators?

[mint coral]

Im not sure. When I use rocket fuel i clock the generators to 240% that makes it consume 10 rocket fuel a minute.

600/10 = 60 generators

[simple thorn]

I suppose that is the most practical and easy to calculate option

[mint coral]

Personally I wouldnt put 600 through a pipe unless I absolutely need to. I rather make 2 mk2 pipes of 300

[simple thorn]

However, I think itd be funny to have massive pillars of generators going from the bottom of blue crater to the sky limit

[mint coral]

For sure it is entertaining. But makes the fluids more complex. I like keeping it simple. One feed pipe per floor

[fervent spire]

Yes

I have four of those pipes in crater lake lmao

It's a glorious cube of generators

[simple thorn]

I'm planning on just using nitro rocket fuel clocked at 200% with a 4 sloops so i can get the highest possible output for the lowest amount of machines

[fervent spire]

But yeah 1 600 pipe of rocket fuel feeds 144 100% generators

[wind spade]

also beware of "fullness of a pipe" and "throughput of a pipe" being two different things

[simple thorn]

How would it make the fluids more complex? Do gases work weird at vertical junctions?

[mint coral]

Well if you are using one feed pip to do multiple floors the fluids get funky.

[cinder berry]

they may fix tht. in 1.2 . we can only hope

[woeful mica]

do fluid buffers have any inherent headlift? I want to place a set of mk1 buffers cuz i don't have room for an industrial but ideally i'd like them to actually fill before pumping through. can I lift my output pipe a few meters without a pump or does it have to be pumped up?

[cinder berry]

Pump

[woeful mica]

aight, cheers 🙂

[fervent spire]

Why is it using multiple recipes for quickwire? Would fused quickwire not just be better, assuming I'm not limited on copper?

Hm I guess it's because I'm asking it to maximize crystal oscillators, and since the quartz is the limiting factor more so than caterium, it finds a way to use all the caterium while producing exactly as much quickwire as it needs, instead of just making overkill quickwire

[old plover]

I did this contraption I was told to do for unloading fluids - do I have to mirror this on the loading side?

[wheat nymph]

re fuel discussion in #satisfactory : Turns out: HOR + diluted fuel + Turbo Blend Fuel turns 900 crude into 1200 turbo fuel or 160 fuel gens which make 40000 MW.
This being said, the real MVP is HOR + diluted fuel which turn 900 crude into 2400 fuel into 30000 MW and it is significantly less hassle to set up.

[lucid ermine]

aye should i go with copper rotor recipe or bolted frame

[old plover]

less hassle to set up... until you reach 30000MW

[old plover]

if you have mk3 belts I'd say bolted frame

but both are really good

[wheat nymph]

very true. Unfortunately, I was not aware of this so I did set up a full turbo fuel production already. So now I might as well do the 40000MW version

[lucid ermine]

i rescanned it and got bolted screws

[limpid vapor]

skip the turbo and go straight for nitro rocket

[mint coral]

I'm not counting on it.

If we get new fluid mechanics I may have to go back and redo all my pipes

[mint coral]

Nothing wrong with that. Turbo is a great fuel source. It also gives you more experience with pipes machine placement and scaling.

[wind spade]

"better" is subjective, and it also depends on what rest of the input is, maybe you're limited on one resource, or using maximise, or anything like that

[wheat nymph]

Remind me, what does rocket fuel need? I assume it is turbo + something?

[limpid vapor]

with this setup, nope, its very simple, thats the primary draw for this chain

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ziERYdBaLUGM3LUo68uc

directly from fuel to rocket fuel

[wind spade]

skip turbo and rocket and go straight for nuclear 😛

[limpid vapor]

do both

[wind spade]

both is pointless imo

[wheat nymph]

Interesting. But I don't have that alt recipe yet 🙁

[limpid vapor]

you need to have blenders unlocked

[wheat nymph]

I do have blenders

[limpid vapor]

and rocket fuel from the mam

[wheat nymph]

the standard rocket fuel recipe is turbo + nitric acid

[limpid vapor]

yeah, this just skips a step

[wheat nymph]

well, I don't have the alt recipe for that yet

and I just was hdd hunting

😭

[limpid vapor]

well, keep looking, its worth it if you want a lot of power for very little effort

prepare to build lots of generators

#screenshots message

but its pretty easy with blueprints

this is about 1200, for 4800 rocket fuel, all at 100% speed

you can overclock and build less

i am just stingy with shards

[warped tendon]

To anyone who uses spreadsheets to run math for this game - Do you have any videos you used to learn at first? I’d like to attempt learning to use em instead of doing stuff by hand or using tools

[frank trout]

It's just a PIA if you don't have your pocket dimension upgrades all done. 50 rubber depletes that bank so fast.

[warped tendon]

Figured I’d ask here bcs it’s yk the math channel

[frank trout]

I like doing it by hand so...

[limpid vapor]

my bottleneck was copper sheets for all the piping, either way, if you want the supply to keep up you need multiple uploaders for every material

[warped tendon]

Placing my 270 generators my main issue became the sheets and the motors. I solved both by including enough storage to store all needed materials onto my factories. That meant no more waiting on anything to produce. Either way yes multiple uploaders

That and storing some items on site using the DD to pull stuff from while I built the start of my RF plant

[wind spade]

what exactly do you expect from the spreadsheet? since I kinda know what kind of math Tools do on the background, I know why I don't want to do spreadsheets 😄

(Tools were originally just a spreadsheet I made)

[warped tendon]

I’d like to know the ways to set stuff up to be able to input what I use and get the amount of items best made from that.

I suppose using the tools you made I could just calculate by percentage to figure out how much input would make what

[frank trout]

Man, I just realize my weekend was dropping 1800 Gens...

[limpid vapor]

for sure, i get mocked for having dozens of containers, but when it comes to stuff like this its super clutch

[warped tendon]

I see no reason to mock or make fun of anyone’s way of playing a game. Especially a sandbox one

[wind spade]

you basically need:

• to know which recipes you want to use
• to weigh items with some values so you know what is "best"
• learn linear solvers (if you can even do them in excel) - this is one of the ways to calculate the production and is what Tools use

if you want to talk about it more in depth, I'm open to, but would be probably better to make a thread here 🤔

[warped tendon]

Ah I know how to do most of that actually wow. Maybe just a basic tutorial video on how to setup linear solvers would be my best thing to watch then. Either that or doing linear equations by hand…

[wind spade]

welcome to the world of "spending a few months to make the linear solver do what I want"

[worthy willow]

Whats the best way to connect 11 smelters to 3 miners with mk2 belts the miners are producing 108.5/minute I haven’t overclocked any smelters since I don’t have the slugs available but I can collect

[wind spade]

you can underclock to match ratios, that's usually the easiest way

[worthy willow]

Alright that makes sense

[tame harbor]

want to check my math, if i make 112 Ficsonium rods per minute, and without using fertile uranium this would require making 22.4 plutonium and 50.4 uranium rods per minute, it would generate 1,470 GW?

[meager kettle]

1490, otherwise yes correct

[tame harbor]

okay.

[meager kettle]

oh wait, looked in wrong table

1470 is right, sorry

[tame harbor]

and if i went fertile uranium, it seems it would generate about 1434 GW?

[meager kettle]

something like that, 954 uranium into rods, rest to fertile

[tame harbor]

152.7 ficsonium, 30.6 plutonium, and 23 uranium

AKA, Fertile Uranium is not good lmao

[meager kettle]

its only useful is you make a really small plant

like make 5-10 uranium rods

iirc you needed 18000+ sam to do the ficsonium refinement

[tame harbor]

which only makes the Wiki using Fertile Uranium as the example with Ficsonium rods (in Tips when discussin SAM use) perplexing, because it loses you 36 GW and consumes 35% more SAM. hell it also consumes more power

[meager kettle]

yes, less overhead

still a net positive, but its much smaller

[tame harbor]

theres 10,200 SAM on the map, doing the non-fertile uranium setup consumes (according to Factoriolab) 20,906.7 SAM to make 112 Ficsonium

[meager kettle]

that sounds highly incorrect

[tame harbor]

let me activate some Tier 9 alts rq

okay not many of those lmao

[tame harbor]

it's saying 2240 ReSAM goes to Dark Mater residue, and 2986.7 ReSAM goes to the aluminum Ficsite ingots ficsite

ah i see one issue, not using DMT

[meager kettle]

lesse ~ 6000 reanimated sam for trigons, 1120-ish for the ficsonium and 560 for singularity cells. total 31k? i think i made a mistake :o

[tame harbor]

that dropped it down to 1680 RESAM for the DMR

[meager kettle]

yes, its half the resam, for trigons, not sure how it became 6000, its just under 3000

[warped tendon]

Hmm using the blue crater it seems I can make 200k or so GW with its materials.

[meager kettle]

yea, the trigons are 12k sam, so slooping the ficsite step would be needed

[tame harbor]

112 FFRs per minute need 4480 Trigons per minute/ or 1493.4 Ficsite Ingots, which using Aluminum only needs that 3k mark

[meager kettle]

and you also need to make the t9 elevator parts will have some DMR byproducts too

[tame harbor]

tbh i think i'd want this to be a closed loop

[meager kettle]

if you sloop the encoders for the fuel rods, you get a closed loop on the DMR to the ficsonium

just need to add a little to get it going

plus another 280gw

bit costly tho, ~50 sloops

but you could do that + slooping ficsite

and have around 20 left

[tame harbor]

okay so, if i sloop the ReSAM constructor, the Ficsite Ingots, and the Ficsonium Rods, it costs 106 Sloops (not counting MAM researches it's doable). but only costs 4106.7 SAM
dropping the Ficsite Ingot Sloops brings it up to 7093.4 SAM and 96 Sloops
dropping the Ficsnoium rod Sloops costs 6346.7 SAM and 42 Sloops
just keeping sloops for ReSAM is 32 sloops and 933.4 SAM

also, slooping ReSAM, Ficsite, and DMR costs 50 Sloops and 4666.7 SAM

[meager kettle]

thats not bad

[tame harbor]

ooh, slooping all that and the Trigon constructors is 65 sloops and 3173.4 SAM

[meager kettle]

how many alu ingots does it save? :p

[tame harbor]

with double slooping the ingots and trigons it costs 7675.8 Alu Ingots

[meager kettle]

hm, i get around 6000 without sloops

[tame harbor]

wait, that is for everything

[meager kettle]

so halving that to 3000 would be worth

[tame harbor]

yeah 1493.4 going to ficsite ingots with double sloop

[meager kettle]

good info, the plan continues :)

[tame harbor]

ah, you need 34 Sloops for all the SAM in the game, this process would consume 10.8 of those sloops worth

so there's 88 Sloops (with 54 going purely to Ficsonium Rods)

https://factoriolab.github.io/sfy/list?z=eJwtxc1OwlAUhdG36eBLbGhjlckdcPa91p-IkoYQnIFUqbEiGEzj4Dy7IWFN1i6ooijKrA3E7BCSwej09PzkfHO6W7fhNuu-u1Bnh3YI0W-48weemLHyDW90.sEnez8y8OcjxuRuE0xYwmrsHptiM6zB5tgCW7mtsdbtHevdvrC92wEbsALLkVCNHtGza4YaNHct0ItrhbauDvVoj35cR3TpqtC1a4wuiCImjzVx47EkXhFzUiLVpDlp6WlD2mb97jWU1Sj7DUXxD6.cTTI_&v=11

here is the Factoriolab link to this whole thang

[tame harbor]

yowza tho that is a lot of extra raw to make that

compared to just getting rid of the uranium waste by sinking the plutonium rods and using it for drone fuel

half the maps resources for power don't leave a lot of excess overhead

[mint coral]

this is why many of us stick with nitro rocket fuel lol. Most ppl build big power because they can. not becasue they need it

[meager kettle]

I enjoy the challenge of it :)

[tame harbor]

yeah

left is using zero alts on the plutonium rods (the sink it and forget it approach, giving 12.6 rods)
right is my best attempt at using alts to make that 112 Ficsonium rods

50.4 Uranium rods is 630 GW

[meager kettle]

22.4 Pu is 560 and 112 fic is 280

So if you do comparison of sinking Pu rods Vs refining it's +840gw

[tame harbor]

if you don't maximize your plutonium rods, and therefore make 63 FFRs, it's 1,102.5 GW

exactly 75% increase in power

(and using the above slooping rules of ReSAM, DMR and Ficsite ingots and trigons, 37 sloops worth)

so the Trap might not necessarily be with Ficsonium but the plutonium alts?

[meager kettle]

Less plutonium makes ficsonium less demanding

Which is why fertile is so awful at scale

[tame harbor]

My gut says the Smart Play™ is to start with the sink it and forget it approach and just scale up Ficsonium production as needed

[meager kettle]

yea i sunk the pu rods until i could do ficsonium

[tame harbor]

not even swap wholesale just only do ficsonium when you need some more powah

[meager kettle]

ficsonium is more to avoid Pu waste building up. The power gain vs power spent isnt big, you get 280gw, but you use like 100-150gw depending on clock speeds :p

unlike ionized fuel, ficsonium is a net positive, but its not huge, but factor in the power from plutonium its yuge

[tame harbor]

looks at the 112 Ficsonium rods estimated consumption
76GW for the whole thing

[meager kettle]

(i did overclock when i built :p )

just going off what i had in my plant

[tame harbor]

wait no

537 GW?

that can't be right

[meager kettle]

naw

[tame harbor]

factoriolab why u do this

[meager kettle]

its an oodle of blenders, particle accelerators and assemblers

[tame harbor]

ahh i see what's happening

it's accoutning for the pwoer generation

so its 537 GW NET PRODUCTION

whilst the similarly 250% overclocked maximum Ficsonium is, 760GW net

854GW net if you only overclock the slooped stuff

(according to Factoriolab)

that might be before the ficsonium rods are burned tho

yeah it is lmao

[tame harbor]

so it's actually 1,040 GW Net

never mind there is sill some weirdness with factoriolab going on

[meager kettle]

44.8 quantum encoders isnt 45gw, they're 2gw each at max, and average is not half that, since its non linear draw

but close enough i guess

[feral niche]

how to i get the math to make farms i want to make a rotor farm with a pure iron node and a mk 2 miner

[ripe mango]

Hey folks, I have managed to skip basic fuel generators and have now unlocked blenders. What's the go-to power generation at that tier? Anyone got a guide on the options?

[tame harbor]

Make HOR, turn it into diluted fuel with the blender. Then make Rocket fuel using either the normal Turbofuel->rocket fuel steps or skip to rocket fuel using Nitro Rocket fuel

Nitro Rocket save a little bit of oil (144 GW per 600 oil compared to 140) but also consumes nearly twice the sulfur

[ionic sapphire]

open any machine and look at the numbers

[mint coral]

you can also look up the part in the codex "o" on pc

[feral niche]

ok

[mint coral]

i highly suggest learnig how toi do all this in game and with a note pad.

but if it is to much ther eis many great options.

Pinned in this channel is

satisfactory tools
this is online calculater to do the math for you . you tell it what you want and it spits out the math. you can be specific and tell it the alts you want to use and how much resources you have.

SCIM is a calculator and interactive map ?

then there is Satisfactory modular on steam it a free tool that has a robust GUI

[ripe mango]

What about location? Blue Crater? Spire Coast? Swamp?

[meager kettle]

blue crater has the most resources for rocket fuel nearby. golden coast the least, and spire coast in the middle

if you just plan to train stuff, literally doesnt matter where

[ripe mango]

I have yet to build a train at all, so blue crater it is 😛

[wind spade]

we don't have farms, we have factories

and you can use production planners to do the math for you

[heady sun]

what if i put set valves to 0 and place them backwards?

[vapid gorge]

that doesn't stop back flow, it just stops flow

[heady sun]

yea, so if i place them backwards theyll stop all backflow and wont stop flow

[vapid gorge]

no it'll stop flow

[heady sun]

oh do they limit flow in both directions to what you set them to?

[vapid gorge]

valves are 1 way

facing one backwards to the direction you want is effectively like deleting a pipe section

[somber sedge]

what??????????????

[heady sun]

thats what he said earlier

[vapid gorge]

if you face them backwards to your intent, they will effectively just stop FLOW

but if you place them forward, in the direction you intend the fluid to flow , they effectively don't stop back flow, the backflow will pass through them, yes

[mint coral]

I flipped through today's stream and..
..

Power switches and hover pack glitch fixed for 1.2

[heady sun]

hoverpack glitch?

[mint coral]

there is a glitch that can cause power issues when the hover tries to connect to a switch for its power source

[vapid gorge]

valves don't stop back flow. This is known

[somber sedge]

well not to me

i thought that was their only job

[vapid gorge]

their only job is to do nothing or cause problems
so congrats! your valves don't do anything

a visual explanation

[heady sun]

they also cant count to 3

[vapid gorge]

they stop individual units of fluid from flowing backwards through them, but they do not stop the knockback effect

which is all you care about in a fluid system. Never has anyone ever shown me fluid system where they care about specific units of fluid rather than overall flow

[somber sedge]

well yeah, i knew that

[wind spade]

and since vavles don't stop backflow in a system, they are kinda pointless 🙂

[vapid gorge]

deeply confused sounds

also what greeny said - they are pointless

they are a possible point of failure that gives you no benefit

[somber sedge]

i hope they do something about this in 1.2

[vapid gorge]

there's nothing they could do to make them useful

because machine consumption already 'limits flow'

if they turn pipes to belts, which I suspect they'll effectively be doing that, valves will still be useless

[somber sedge]

if i was coffee stain, id make them purely a visual thing. like the gauge shows u the internal pressure

[vapid gorge]

I mean that's what I use them for

they do look cool. I have aesthetic valves in places

[burnt dagger]

sorry new here .would it be beter if the cross pipes sit higher then the input so the liquid is foling down into them? would that stop the knockback a bit ?

[vapid gorge]

I just clip pipes through them

[somber sedge]

yes thats good

[vapid gorge]

as long as the input pipe is at least level with the input of hte machine it doesn't make a huge difference

other part of pipe layouts are far more impactful on flow

[somber sedge]

it made an absoluetly huge difference for me

[vapid gorge]

correlation and causation - rebuilding sections of pipe and or time for letting systems stabalise don't give you a good idea of what 'works'

it's the same reason why people think valves fix systems

they keep doing things to the pipes, rebuilding bits, and build a valve and 'suddenly this works! it was the valve!' when it was really rebuilding a janky bit of pipe or giving the systemmore time to fill

but as long as you're not bottom feeding, you should be good

[burnt dagger]

im going to have to try iv been working on a fuel system for the last few days and im trying ot figure out how to stop my last one from draining out so i can run 20 to 30 gens efficiently and smoothly

[burnt dagger]

this iv noticed na dwhen making my pipe runs ill ru due pipes before moving on and notice it fixes it most the time

[vapid gorge]

manifolds for both belts and pipes do take a while to work 🙂

[somber sedge]

yeah thats a flaw in human intuition

[vapid gorge]

with pipes though it's a good idea to flood your system. So like clock a couple machines to 50% so you're overfeeding for a bit

full pipes are happy pipes and it helps you trouble shoot

[burnt dagger]

iv been mostly filling the system full and adding tank buffers

[vapid gorge]

buffers are also in the category of 'either do nothing or cause problems'

but they may also hide problems until later

they can cause huge flow issues

[burnt dagger]

this is what i have so far

[vapid gorge]

so just as a thing - those 'water towers' aren't doing anything the pumps aren't already doing

[burnt dagger]

my problem is long runs not losing pressue and flow

[vapid gorge]

long pipes just take time to fill. They don't lose pressure or flow

water towers don't help flow

honestly that buffer on the left might be giving you flow issues

actualy the one on the right may be an issue too looking how it's set up

[mint coral]

Buffers are generally for buffering train inputs and outputs

[burnt dagger]

so the whole system is all set to run the proper % for each system to get me exactly 600 fuel per min into my finnal pipes

[mint coral]

Buffer Look cool though. I place them over my pipes but I don't connect them

[burnt dagger]

ok makes senes yeah im guessing the 3yrold vid i saw might of been out dated lol

[vapid gorge]

I would mostly ignore anything about fluids on yt

[somber sedge]

same, i place them for decoration

[mint coral]

Just keep things simple. The piping manual pinned here is a little out of date but most the information is relevant.

Cobalt and a few others really know there stuff.

Most my issues are user issues.

I spent three days pulling my hair out trying to figure out a issue.

Turned out I mis clicked a overclock

[somber sedge]

and also to keep an emergency reserve of aluminia solution

[burnt dagger]

so what if im going slight up hill and all that to runn the pipes ?

[mint coral]

Pumps as needed

[burnt dagger]

ok so that brings another question lol when do you put the pump? should it be on the pipe that is not filling or on the last pipe that is full flow ing

[mint coral]

Whenever you need more headlift

Every machine give ten meters of headlift. If you want more you use a pump

They do not stack.

Every pump resets the headlift to the pump value

[burnt dagger]

ok awesome thanl you for all the info/ im going to redue some stoff and see if i can get a good clean flow going

[mint coral]

You got this. Take all the advice youve been given over the last hour and go try stuff out. Best way to learn is to do.

@vapid gorge I didn't mean to step on your toes. I just ment to say buffers look cool but are limited on uses.

[burnt dagger]

i have a question abut % if my pipes are pushing 600 should i under clock were its goin to or should i put the exact % of what the machine need even if its less then the 600 or should i adds enough machine or boosts to get the full 600 ?

[dusky dust]

I always supply the exact amount, even if it's not completely maxing the belt/pipe/whatever. With pipes in particular, you'll actually have less of a chance of running into weird pipe problems if you avoid trying to use the full 600/min

(though those weird pipe problems can generally be figured out)

That said, it's unlikely to hurt anything if you over-supply the liquid. If your system needs 580/min but you give it 600/min, it just means that the extractors/whatever will go idle occasionally

[vapid gorge]

no that's accurate, I use aesthetic buffers with pipes clipped throug hthem as well

[vapid gorge]

you can also use photomode to do some top down shots which might help us figure out the issue if yo ucome back 🙂 it's generally very difficult to troubleshoot pipes unless you can get a clear view of things

[old plover]

@vapid gorge this is my unloading station. Should I make this on the loading station too? or it's useless

[vapid gorge]

have the bottom be the output

but also is that gas in the other pipes?

[vapid gorge]

practical example #design-and-architecture message

[old plover]

no pumpy then ?

and yes these are gaseous contents indeed

[vapid gorge]

oh a pump, but a pump like how it is in the image I linked

[vapid gorge]

ok - package your gasses - gasses HATE buffers

that is if you expect full throughput. If you only need 1/2 the gas you're trying to move you'll be ok

[old plover]

lol damn okay

[frank trout]

I mostly like them for Fuel Plant especially for emergencies

[old plover]

I'll probably just double my freight cars instead then, I just hate the aluminum waste

oh ok so the output goes through the unpowered pump

[vapid gorge]

power it.

it's just not powered in the example because its a diagram essentially

[old plover]

ooh

[vapid gorge]

you're also not going to waste the aluminium

send the empty cannisters back on another platform

[old plover]

it does work well in the scenario though but alright (400 crude oil/min)

[vapid gorge]

a car full of Packaged Nitrogen can hold 4x as much as one Fluid Car of nitrogen.

if you consider that you also need to have a spare car on the same train to haul the empties back, you're still saving a lot of train space

in fact you could replace those 4x fluid cars of gas with 2x solid cars of full and empty cannisters

[old plover]

yea I know but fluid freight cars look cool 🙁

[vapid gorge]

they do. but gasses and buffers don't work well together and it's more compact this way

NOW, that being said, last year someone did seem to figure out a way to manage gas in fluid buffers from trains.

it was more of an experiment because it was just straight up less practical than packaging it.

but it seemed to work

I cannot remember their user name though >.>

[old plover]

man I was about to listen

alright thanks a bunch. And for the loading side, do I mirror this? Or no use?

[vapid gorge]

but I did find this #math-and-meta message

you can probably replicate it with the smaller buffers.
Probably.
but keep in mind this is experimental territory. And you might waste time trying to make it work

I think for a train you'd have 1 buffer to each platform input/output?

[old plover]

I'm all about experimenting, mostly when it comes to fluids

but what you guys manage to figure out is above my pay grade lol

[vapid gorge]

xD

[old plover]

yea that's what I have, I'm not moving crazy amounts

[vapid gorge]

I think the example I linked should be workable w/o too much problems

[vapid gorge]

no no , you have 1 buffer per platform

you would need 1 buffer per input/output

so 2 buffers per platform

[old plover]

ah yes I see

[vapid gorge]

You likely could make it vertical as well since gas don't care about headlift or gravity

[old plover]

I tried this but it looks ugly

[vapid gorge]

Personally I advocate keeping piping simple to people and that's what I show them, but if you like to experiment, go wild 🙂

[old plover]

the small ones side by side fit

[vapid gorge]

you could probably squeeze 2 smalle rbuffers side by side then?

yup yup. That should do it

[old plover]

yea but like how did yall figure out how individual fluid unit precisely behave in the pipe? the fluid manual that goes around the community is CRAZY for a community made tutorial

[tropic hazel]

@dapper drum do yout not see how these 2 things are different?

[dapper drum]

"i'm done"

*proceeds to not be done

back to my original point, it assumes perfect usage in the system for there not to be overflow

[tropic hazel]

thats compeltely irrelevant

[dapper drum]

if anything is underutilized, eventually it'll fill up and become overflow out of splitter 4

[tropic hazel]

what he said was that these 2 things are the same

so i was showing why these 2 things are different

[dapper drum]

different in theory, yes, but not everyone makes perfectly clocked systems

if he had 300 coal left over, and only used 60 of it for beams, there's still overflow out of the last splitter and the first 4 machines will still fill as intended, meaning splitter 4 is managing overflow manifold into a second manifold, both of which are subsets of the Big Manifold

[tropic hazel]

thats not the point though?? im saying they are doing 2 different things. Yes, in his case where he is overproducing coal, he gets the same result, but they are doing 2 different things

[tropic hazel]

again thats not the point, the point is that the 2 things shows in my image are doing 2 different things

[dapper drum]

you got it! they're two different things mate

[somber sedge]

yes ive always thought about doing that

[tropic hazel]

THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THE ENTIRE TIME

[dapper drum]

good job!

[somber sedge]

in theory it should fill faster initally, but im not sure about the implications during regular functioning

like, if one machine suddenly requires 60 casing, how would that affect the rest of the machines furhter down the line?

[vapid gorge]

it's less about figuring out each unit and more basic behaviours

like keeping a manifold flat and not having branches keeps things simple and stable
plus a loop helps manage backflow

[somber sedge]

experementation id assume

u dont have to be the creator of something to completely understand it

[vapid gorge]

the main issue with piping is if you make it complex it introduces a lot of variables that are hard to manage and understand. Because sections affect other sections.

It's a bit like figuring out orbits

for 2 objects orbiting each other? super simple
3? jfc, nightmare

because all 3 objects are always pulling on each other as they move

[somber sedge]

so fundumentally, its science

but on a game level

[vapid gorge]

kinda. Just harder to break down into it's components

[somber sedge]

minimize variables and note the interactions

[vapid gorge]

We can't set up experimental labs in game to figure out fine details even if we wanted to

and honestly irl fluid dynamics is a nightmare

[somber sedge]

unrelated but satisfactory made me love freight trains

[vapid gorge]

only beaten by thermodynamics. But that's mostly because fluid dynamics is PART of thermo

[somber sedge]

theyre so cool

[vapid gorge]

choo choo mfs

[burnt dagger]

sorry for the late responce was eating dinner. im still rerading but got to this poing and wanted to reply as i go

[vapid gorge]

and what specific problems are you reporting?

[burnt dagger]

so basically im wanting to see if this is a good set up to run a full 30 gens or should i do something diff and how can i get the knock bck in the end system were the gens are from being a problem

[vapid gorge]

ok so a few notes
have your water extractors just do 600 flow, avoid stuttering where you can, use mk2 pipes for the whole thing

just get rid of the buffers

you might need a pipe loop on this

similar to this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1480318649142218922/1480349335836295208/image.png?ex=69b1fd41&is=69b0abc1&hm=e75caa85dfffc634823709cbf6a37487a7843570cb43e34ddbe0e5bcb67c45c7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

here put a half full container of empty cannisters

[burnt dagger]

ok awesome ill def try that there . should i do that with all of them ?

[vapid gorge]

you want to keep your packagers TOTALLY flooded ,

[vapid gorge]

you tend to only need loops on high flow pipes. 600 almost always.

with fresh water you don't always need a loop, but it never hurts

[burnt dagger]

so right under the red circle is a strorage that i stared with the empty containers

so basically flood the belts with empty containers ?

[vapid gorge]

yup I see thats how you kick started it, pretty standard. But you want it on the main line, and just absolutely filling the packagers, you don't want it to ever be not full of empties

[vapid gorge]

to the left of the circle? yes

Diluted packaged fuel is basically teh ONLY system in the game where manifolds are a bit awkward

and need a bit of extra help

[burnt dagger]

ok i see put it on the main track to feed in and out of got it

[vapid gorge]

you'll probably want a loop on this as well, jsut feed 2 generators on each junction , mk2 pipe obvs

[burnt dagger]

i kinda figured that since my other gen system is runny good but that ones runing base blue pring not the 2 im using on the main

[vapid gorge]

yeah you can just not use a manifold at all for DPF by doing a 1:1:1 loop of packager > refinery > unpackager , loop back

if you ever do it again you could create a blueprint set up like that, basically a poor man's blender

arguably a lot simpler 😄

[mint coral]

@sly hinge you should read the last few hours here. Lots of good pipe info

[burnt dagger]

what do you mean feed two on each junction ? is that not how i have it ?

[vapid gorge]

yeah exactly like that

it's just in my diagram example I only have refineries on one side

so wanted to be extra clear you didn't need to keep the loop one sided

in fact, having fewer junctions along a pipe manifold helps keep it more stable

[burnt dagger]

yeah i just started playing like maybe a week ago lol si im still working my way up the sky bosses list lol

[vapid gorge]

you're doing well 🙂

[mint coral]

@burnt dagger dpf example

#math-and-meta message

[tight karma]

Aluminium question:

So I know that with the base recipe you get issues when dealing with the excess water because it's usually way too much for one pipe to handle (see top diagram).

Would it work if I just split my factory in 6 and went with the bottom diagram?

Cuz like, I know you can make like wet concrete, but I kinda don't want to, I have more than enough conrete.

I have looked at other alt recipes that will yield me more aluminium, but tbf II'm probably gonna have to rebuildd/buiildd a new plant anyway in a couple dozen hours, I think 2400 alu p/m will last me a fair bit.

[vapid gorge]

not a bad example, though yo ucan build the BP with empty cannisters already in a packager to start it up 🙂

[mint coral]

Thats what I did here lol

[vapid gorge]

no matter what recipes you do you can keep the waste and fresh split

its effectively like flowing waste water to wet concrete in how reliable it is. But keeps it in system

like so

bottom refs are solution, top scrap
blue is fresh, red is waste

[tight karma]

Wiill readd fully in a sec

[burnt dagger]

ok so basicly instead of a loop to all each one gets its own packer and un packer and then it runs alltogether to the gens or is each gen on its own refiner packer unpacker stetup ?

[vapid gorge]

definitely yes to the first bit, 2nd bit is optional

you can merge the fuel output after however you like

you could have each little loop connected to their own gens 🙂

and smaller fluid systems are always much easier to keep stable

you can slap them around more

like if you keep all your systems running at a max 300 flow? you can do almost anything you like to your pipes and they'll probably work fine

[burnt dagger]

but then the question becomes how many can i run on its own combo lol so now with me adding the loops to my system that you origianly said and at the % i have now do you think i can run a full 30 gen on this system or even 25 with just adding what you said but keepinmg my %s

[vapid gorge]

hmm lets see

ok so 1x refinery doing DPF can do 250 fuel pm OCed

no wait I'm wrong one sec

ok one could do 150 fuel pm OCed

that could feed 3x fully OCed fuel gens

which isn't a bad set up honestly.
1 corner of a grid you have your little loop, other 3 corners, generators

the main downside of that would be that you'd have to spread your water and HOR pipes about which can be annoying

if you kept them to 300 flow sections though it'd give you a lot more leeway

might be good to build over water so you can have an extractor directly below the system

[burnt dagger]

yeah i might play with the loop sytem after i get this one running good . so im going to add the storage directly to the belt system and then loop the water and on the gen system like you suggested and see ow that goes . now shpuld i loop from the far end to the beging and just add a cross pipe or should i loop ever so many gens

[vapid gorge]

as long as the manifold that is feeding the gens is flat the type of loop doesn't really matter

the example one I give though might be more stable than most?

[burnt dagger]

this is how i looped my water originally is this one usually good ?

[vapid gorge]

well that's not a loop, it's just a different way to manage the outputs. Not bad I would say?

shouldn't cause issues

[tight karma]

This makes sense, although I'll probably still build my factory as say four smaller factories just to keep things simpeler. But managing waste water like this is cool imma use it lol

[burnt dagger]

yeah its flat and i mean i can easly reach a long pipe fom the end onces all my gents are down and make it reach the begging is one long loop i was just make sure if it matter if it was a long one or a few shorter ones

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah - my advice is process each belt of bauxite on it's own
don't interlink them. Can become a nightmare

[vapid gorge]

oh it's the INPUTS that need loops

not outputs.

whenever you get flow issues it's almost 100% always at the input side of things

[burnt dagger]

ook and im going to get rid of the buffers and do a direct flow as well

[tight karma]

What I was gonna do it take three pure baux nodes and two normal nodes and combine the normal nodes onto one belt and then give the others their own, and then send each to their own sub factory (or load balance them if I were to go with six sub factories instead of 4).

[vapid gorge]

... that's doable I guess? as long as you dedicate a belt per little sections processing it's thing

but why not just OC the normal nodes higher?

[tight karma]

All the nodes will get overclocked to 250% with MK2 miners

So I'll effectively have 4 pure nodes each having their own belt

[vapid gorge]

fair enough 🙂

[tight karma]

600x3 + 300x2 = 2400p/m

I would go mk3 but I'm nowhere near mk6 belts

[vapid gorge]

mk3s still pull more out of normal nodes too

you could just OC a normal node to 600 iirc

with a mk3 miner

not a huge dif either way, just pointing it out

[tight karma]

True, but then I'd run out of coal xD, which I'm already using mk3's for

And possibly also quartz

But again this whole thing is long term temporary anyway

[vapid gorge]

yeah see, one of the main reasons I do Sloppy + Electrode + Pure ingot

only need a few drops of oil and no silica

[tight karma]

Oil?

Ohhhhhh

Yeah I see

[vapid gorge]

bit higher output of scrap per solution too

And you could also use both
Base Ingot
Pure Ingot

in the same spot and use only the silica byproduct

many design options 🙂

[tight karma]

I unlocked pretty much every alu alt except for pure ingot, and I'm tired of hunting harddrives and getting useless recipes xD. I'm still hunting for iron wire to make motors xD

So, 2sec

So I was planning to build it in the bottom left where my current alu production is (240p/m), but if there's a way to make alu with just oil and bauxite I may as well build it somewhere near the....... red forest...... cuz there is oil up there right?

[vapid gorge]

just as a thing - no recipe is useless. Just depends if you're creating the situations they are good for 🙂
Even bio coal

[tight karma]

useless for me atm

[vapid gorge]

fair xD

[burnt dagger]

@vapid gorge something like this ?

[tight karma]

What're your thoughts on this

[tight karma]

Those are indeed the loops they were talking about

I'm pretty sure

[burnt dagger]

lol thanks its not as pretty but wanted to get the consept down for sure lol

[vapid gorge]

feed it to the top, but yes 🙂

like the initial pipe

[burnt dagger]

now the only thing about that is id have to raise the water tubs up more . would i lose water doing that ?

[tight karma]

Could also lay the loop flat

[vapid gorge]

nope. a flat loops also works but yo ucould also do this so it's less tall , see the side U shape connecting them?

that copmresses the loop in a tidy and functional way

[burnt dagger]

the only issue is that the packers feed from the top and not floor level so i could do a flat to foundation run. nvm im guessing that image solves that problem lol

[tight karma]

You can build the loop floating above the foundations

I would show my coal plant as an example but I'm not at my pc, 2 sec

[burnt dagger]

im so glad i found this discord lol thank you guys a bunch for answering all my newbie question

[vapid gorge]

yeah no sweat 🙂 and reddit has a lot of out of date info or just out right superstitions

[tight karma]

laughs in MK2 pipes are broken

Oh one fluid tip I'm not sure people told you yet

Let your fluid consuming machines and pipes fill up all the way before turning on the machines using said fluid

[burnt dagger]

no none told me but i kind figured that one out early on lol

[burnt dagger]

now with this one is the first double up and looped cross pipes necessary fore the first part coming from the beginning ?

nvm answered mu own queston to why its there lo l

[tight karma]

Is the direct scrap alu recipe worth anything?

[burnt dagger]

@vapid gorge ok so i had to tweak it a little because of how it feeds the empty packs in and i still ended up clipping it one of them lol but i thing itll be as good as i can get it

[final cargo]

@long bridge

[final cargo]

@burnt dagger

[trail osprey]

yo what's this planner called I can't find this anywhere

[tight karma]

Satisfactory modeler on steam

[trail osprey]

thanks man

[peak moon]

The new Update 1.2 was annoucend to include a Fluid Rework right ? Do we know, what that‘ll include ?

[wind spade]

No, it was announced to have fluid trucks

[peak moon]

so mk2 pipe bug still a thing then ig

[meager kettle]

aint no mk2 bugs

theres making them wrong, but no bugs really, aside the bisections of pipes when placing things on them

[wind spade]

there was never anything like mk2 bug

[peak moon]

there kinda is one, because ive calc my pipe system multiple times, but it doesnt work as it should, i need to build some sort of loop to it, kinda a bug isnt it ?

[meager kettle]

no, building it badly doesnt mean its bugged

gotta use all tools available to you, like pumps to push fluid

[wind spade]

no, that's caused by backflow, which is completely normal both in SF pipes and in IRL

[meager kettle]

that said, css might simplify them a bit in 1.2 maybe removing variables like friction and viscsity. since so many people struggle

tho i just adding a text blurb to pumps "affects flow not just head lift" would help a lot

[thick plank]

wait, since when do resource node replacements/removals affect already placed miners?

I just rejoined an old world of mine and found my production line completely broken cause a coal node was replaced by a limestone one.

I tthough that miners already placed dont loose their production method

[meager kettle]

nodes were changed from update 8 to 1.0

can hop onto scim and swap between them to see which nodes moved where

[thick plank]

yeah, itts these ones

im just very annoyed that I have tto flush the systtem now

[vapid gorge]

oooh ok so you're technically bottom feeding here, but I have seen over arches like this work before, hows it going?

[latent shard]

Hey ! Is this will works ?

[meager kettle]

recommended to place intersecting tracks on same level, them being on diffrent heights there can cause collisions

[dusky dust]

If you only use Block Signals around that intersection, it should work fine. If you use Path, then you need to make sure they're all on the same vertical level (so without having any going underneath)

If the intersection were collapsed onto a single plane then you could safely incorporate Path

The issue w/ Path is that the path reservation is unlikely to register that trains could collide when the Z-axis difference occurs, since it only takes into account the rail itself, not the full train geometry

Block Signals would just flat-out disallow more than one train in the block, regardless of what paths are being taken, so that'd work fine

[latent shard]

way better

estheticly

(ye i know, bad english)

[ionic sapphire]

your blue rail cant enter the station

[latent shard]

not a problem for the moment

bud added it

how do we use the arrow thing ?

[ionic sapphire]

what arrow thing

[latent shard]

this

[scenic gale]

That's only for manual driving you can swap which lane you want to enter while driving the locomotive yourself but it makes zero impact to automated trains

[ionic sapphire]

you can ignore it mostly

[latent shard]

oh ok cool

[meager kettle]

you use it while driving manually, pressing A/D to decide on left or right

auto drivign trains will just automatically go where they need to

[latent shard]

ok thx

I have so much to do in my world :

• finish the main train track
• clean all my iron factory
• making blueprint for general ingot factory
• cleaning and upgrading my petroleum factory
  • all oil extraction for fuel production
  • all fuel production to turbofuel production
  • automate compacted coal for turbofuel production
  • all residue to plastic and rubber production
  • energy production up to 300 fuel power generator

[dapper bough]

Is "https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production" still the meta calculator that most people use?

IIRC the only quirks it has is that it cannot handle producing radioactive wastes?

[mint coral]

yes

i far as i know it does handle waste. It doesnt generate it out of thin air though some manual input may be needed

[scenic gale]

You can insert radioactive waste as an input and it works then iirc

[dapper bough]

Nor synthetic power shards?

ye it will state it as a required input, but not give a pipeline that produces it

[scenic gale]

Yeah because it's unique, although synthetic power shards it should do

[dapper bough]

theyre shown by default as the ones you should add

[scenic gale]

Power shards shouldnt require an input

[dapper bough]

Ah i see now.

Does need the wastes tho yea

[scenic gale]

Synthetic power shards should work on the tool without it, it's just radioactive waste thats the oddball because it's not produced by any of the machines listed

Yeah, since that's nuclear power plant specific

[oblique hollow]

Synth shards are an alt and that needs to be enables first

[meager kettle]

(in mam, not hardrive just to preemptively avoid inevitable angry message from someone scanning 30 harddrives and not getting it).

[mint coral]

Same with turbofuel base recipe

[oblique hollow]

Funny note on that:

according to offcial CSS info, Turbofuel, Compacted Coal, Ionised Fuel and Rocket Fuel are NOT alts

Because they arent unlocked via the RNG gamble (which links to certain types of milestones)

Yes they take hard drives and have alt in their names sometimes but arent counted as real alts

[mint coral]

Ya, a but confusing hence why I used the term base recipe lol. I was trying to clairify

[oblique hollow]

With that revelation, greeny might be updating Tools

Not sure though. @wind spade ?

Will you be changing some alts on tools to not be alts anymore now that they arent officially categorized as such?

[wind spade]

Not old tools (due to how they are implemented, it could break/change existing production lines)

New Tools will be based on parser that already uses the official definition

[oblique hollow]

Thats a good enough answer, thanks

Expected that to be the case

[wind spade]

Old Tools may be possible to chamge, however it would require much more effort that would be reasonable for a practically to-be-dead project

[mint coral]

@shadow grove

[shadow grove]

thanks it looks excatly like i lined up

[shadow grove]

THANK U SO MUCH

[mint coral]

over time the first machine will fill completely then the next as long as your total input belt is equal or greater to all the coal generators combined need it will balance itself over time

the time it needs to self balance is often called the wind-up time

you can reduce this by hand feeding the coal into each machine so it starts with a max stack

[shadow grove]

okey

[mint coral]

if you got layout and math questions the ppl here love to help and we can share images here ^_^

[shadow grove]

ok ima show u how i made it ok?

[mint coral]

sure

[mint coral]

to be clear i try to help but im not a pro lol

[shadow grove]

is this ok?

[shadow grove]

well your better then me so ye

[mint coral]

the coal yes. You many have water issues

[shadow grove]

wdym

[mint coral]

fluids dont like to fight gravity. I try to fill machines from the same level or from above. BUT if it works your good. If it doesnt you now have a idea why

[shadow grove]

i used that thing that puts energy that allows it to go up

it should work

[mint coral]

a pump yes.

[shadow grove]

maybe

u can't see it here but everying under it looks smoothly

[mint coral]

lets see if i can find a well explained example one minute please

[shadow grove]

ok

[shadow grove]

well

i guess i screwed up

man but i really don't wanna change it

[mint coral]

pinned here is a Plumbing manual it a little out of date but most the information is rather relevant. is a lot of homeowrk though

[mint coral]

leave it for now

[shadow grove]

i will just see how it looks

[mint coral]

first see if it works. you already did the work no harm in it

[shadow grove]

ye well i can't wait for coal power I HATE BIO POWER I HATE COLLECTING LEAVES AND WOOD AND IT KEEPS BREAKING

i can't wait

btw my main base is a mess

[mint coral]

we all feel that the first time.

by the end you are like

remember when leaves and wood were the issue ^_^

[shadow grove]

i'm planning to rework it after i'm done with coal

[mint coral]

IF you have to rework coal power

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cgh

[mint coral]

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[mint coral]

this will help

[shadow grove]

ok thank you

[mint coral]

np

[tame harbor]

Now imagine what it was like before bio generators had belt inputs

[shadow grove]

oh lol i don't use belt inputs bc i am to lazy to make something like that

i put it in manually idk why i'm like that

[meager kettle]

i remember when coffee stain said they would NEVER add inputs on bioburners :D

[tame harbor]

Being able to just shove the wood and leaves (and even mycelium depending on where you are) into storages and have them automatically convert into biomass and then into solid fuel and then manifold into biomass generators makes that early game process so goddamned smooth

[shadow grove]

still having to collect wood and grass sucks

*leaves

[tame harbor]

Oh god yes

Chainsaw at least makes it satisfying

[placid vessel]

how do pipeline splitters work?

[meager kettle]

they're not splitters, they're junctions. each port can go in either direction

[placid vessel]

is there a flow limit cap, if so is it better not to split

[mint coral]

that is marked on the pipes not the junctions

[placid vessel]

well for some reason when i split it, it only splits the amount of water in the pipe, not the amount of water that should be going into it

[meager kettle]

for junctions its depends on the pipe connected. miking mk1 an mk2 pipes can cause some confusion in the junction and generally better to use same pipe everywhere

[placid vessel]

well, I'm trying to pump a whole ton of water into my coal factory(Phase 2 btw) and it seems that it is pretty much kneecapped

i have 4 extractors

i am going insane

[meager kettle]

3 water extractors will feed 8 coal gens with two pipes

[placid vessel]

two?

i've been combining them all into one pipe

then splitting it for my 10 coal generators

[unique cypress]

... The pipe does 300/min max

[meager kettle]

add up the water production and consumption numbers

[unique cypress]

It says so in the description

[meager kettle]

then see what the pipe can handle

[unique cypress]

And in the gui

[mint coral]

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[placid vessel]

omg

[teal tiger]

how exactly do those switch toggles work? like will the train still go straight if its assigned to this station? or will it always only be able to go left

[placid vessel]

ok thanks ill fix my splitter spaghetti

[unique cypress]

It'll go wherever it's set to go and it completely disregards these switches

[mint coral]

the arrows are for manual rail selection

[teal tiger]

so i can just ignore it?

[mint coral]

for automation yes

[teal tiger]

kk thanks

[obtuse hawk]

I'm sure the answer to this question is "it depends" but is it better to refine oil into fuel and make rubber from the resin, or is it better to refine oil into rubber and make fuel from the heavy oil residue?

[elder fox]

neither

[obtuse hawk]

?

[elder fox]

have you unlocked alt recipes?

[obtuse hawk]

I think I've found like 5 or 6 hard drives total

[elder fox]

ok well i believe there is one alt recipe that makes great rubber

[obtuse hawk]

According to the wiki, there is only 1 alt recipe that produces rubber, and its called "recycled rubber." The inputs are Plastic and Fuel.

[elder fox]

damn

i must be wrong then

[obtuse hawk]

Ok so back to the original question. I need rubber for my modular engine factory, and I'd like to create a fuel power plant as part of that setup. So which method would be better?

[mint coral]

recycled recipe oroboros is real. Like a snake eating its tail while making more snake

[elder fox]

fuel byproduct resin

[obtuse hawk]

Is there a specific reason why?

[elder fox]

it very much depends if you want easier fuel or easier rubbe but i believe they produce the same amount of resources

i go with fuel byproduct resin because its easie

[meager kettle]

if you need to make plubber, do that and burn the hor by product, if you need power, focus on making power from the oil

theres a bunch of alt recipes which can improve things. like Heavy Oil Residue, Diluted Packaged Fuel, Recycled Plubber

[obtuse hawk]

That seems backwards. The rubber recipe that uses resin requires water. That'd be a whole additional pipe system I have to set up

[elder fox]

water is like the easiest thing in the game

[obtuse hawk]

Sure, but is it easier than just not needing it?

[elder fox]

i believe almost every if not all fuel are directly near water and it involves less setup

[teal tiger]

a path signal at the end of the train station is the way to go here right?

like with that signal the train will stay in the train station until its safe to go

[meager kettle]

no, path signals dont do anything for merging tracks

[teal tiger]

so il just use block signals?

same principle?

[wind spade]

That depends (you knew it) on what do you mean by "better"

[meager kettle]

yes

[obtuse hawk]

Ease of setup, more efficient outputs, etc.

[outer vale]

those often conflict

[wind spade]

Yeah each of those will result in different answer

(Assuming you mean "efficient" as "resource efficient", not other kinds if efficiency)

[meager kettle]

usually more output is less easy setup :p

[outer vale]

Alts can trade off lots of things, including (non-exhaustive)

• different amounts of the same resource(s)
• using different resources entirely
• space
• power
• build complexity
• output per machine
• usefulness in/of other recipes in the process

Those first two in particular are also affected by where you build the thing. eg water is much simpler and cheaper if you're near the coast than if you're far inland

[torn plaza]

use path signals on the entrances of junctions where paths cross over

there's no crossing there so no need for path junction

path signals on the entrance to this junction means multiple trains can enter it, if their paths don't clash

[meager kettle]

you should increase distance between the path signal and the block signal before it, makes train slow less

[torn plaza]

yeah i done that since making that video, also tore it all up to be further away so the train didn't need to kink back on itself like that

long blocks before entrance, short blocks on exits

[tame harbor]

so sanity check, i just calculated that, if i use Instant Scrap and make 50.4 Uranium rods per minute, there is enough sulfur left on the map to make 16185 Rocket fuel per minute using Turbo Blend fuel and then using the compacted coal byproduct to feed more turbo fuel

which if i then burn in the checks math again 1,566 fuel generators (with 27 of them not being fully overclocked) it would generate (along with the uranium rods) 1.6 TW of power

this would also, because of how oil inefficent turbo blend fuel is, consume 54.9% of the maps oil (6920 out of 12600)

[torn plaza]

oil inefficient, but super sulfur and coal efficient

is my preferred way to turbo fuel

not that coal is that important but it's one less thing to import, and can go towards time crystals

[tame harbor]

the fact that, ignoring the rods for a minute, making that much rocket fuel that way costs 53% of the maps oil while only costing 35.5% of the sulfur is funny to me

[meager kettle]

yea its more rocket fuel per sulfur. But since you kinda want power before tier 7, what i and most seem to do is just make diluted packaged fuel in tier 5, then when t7 hits, just add the nitro rocket fuel to the diluted fuel you already made and pipe the rocketfuel into the pipes the fuel went in.

[tame harbor]

tbh i usually skip diluted packaged fuel

[surreal dune]

is there anywhere that lists the most resource efficient recipes?

[meager kettle]

and if you had forethough, you made 60 gens per mk2 pipe, clocked em down for fuel, then clock em up to 240% for rocketfuel :p

very easy progression for more power

[torn plaza]

i still have a diluted packaged fuel setup, for old time's sake

[tame harbor]

FWIW i want to saw diluted packaged fuel saves on power?

[meager kettle]

compared to blender?

[tame harbor]

ye

not much mind

[torn plaza]

the wiki used to have detailed alt recipe analysis but nobody updated it after 1.0

[meager kettle]

50mw with packaged vs 75mw on a blender

[tame harbor]

best bet is to go to satisfactory tools and go over that with a fine toothed comb

[meager kettle]

that said, packaged makes 60/min and blender makes 100 fuel/min, so adjusting for that blender saves on power

[surreal dune]

are the recipes themselves updated on the wiki?

[meager kettle]

if you use the correct wiki

the .gg one

[surreal dune]

yeah i've got the one they switched to

[torn plaza]

for 600 fuel;
722MW diluted packaged fuel
672MW diluted fuel

[meager kettle]

doesnt seem right

[torn plaza]

doesn't include water extractors but that's what tools gives me

[meager kettle]

600 fuel/min would be 10 setups with refinery+two packagers for 500mw. blender would be 6 of them for 450mw

[wind spade]

no, because there's nothing like "most resource efficient recipe"

[torn plaza]

-# apart from heavy encased frame

[wind spade]

it was removed due to being opinionated and misleading

[tame harbor]

decided to check what Nitro Rocket fuel would get me with the aforementioned "50.4 uranium rods and all bauxite using instant scrap)

got me 5766 rocket fuel, or 345.96 GW (975.96 GW when combined with the uranium)

[wind spade]

including that one

[torn plaza]

yeah a lot of assumptions on earlier alts were made that broke the analysis

[tame harbor]

"all recipes are equal, but some are more equal than others"

[meager kettle]

it just kinda comes down to, want to use less raw materials, or make more product

[wind spade]

even then it's not about recipes, it's about recipe chains

[torn plaza]

yeah nitro rocket is convenient but not super efficient on inputs

[wind spade]

single recipe is not more resource efficient on its own

(the only case being RIPs vs bolted plates)

[meager kettle]

and do the other products matter? if you wanna max uranium fuel rods, the alts will definatly do that, but they also use more costly parts, but that might not necessarily be a factor for you.

[torn plaza]

diluted fuel and heavy oil residue are holding up many players entire games

[tame harbor]

with good reason

you don't need all that much to "beat the game"

and oil is everywhere and making fuel from it is dead shrimple

[torn plaza]

I'm still gonna make 600 uranium worth of rods just because I can

and I wanna dunk on the stinger nest it's built on

[tame harbor]

full stop if i ACUTALLY BUILD THIS SHIT, you have permission to come to my house and shoot me because i will be too far gone to care at that point

[torn plaza]

nah, why stop at 50.4 rods?

[tame harbor]

not just that, but also the rocket fuel

that said now you got me thinking

[torn plaza]

you could use this to get more

(it's unironically a better chain than ficsonium)

[meager kettle]

hard to make more :p you use a lot of the same to refine the plutonium, then you dont have enough to convert, and if you convert bauxite you might run out of aluminium to do everything you need etc :p

[tame harbor]

what is the MOST POWAH you can make using everything at our disposal including SAM

[torn plaza]

someone created a chain that uses sam to convert stuff to uranium that used less of everything, including sam, than a ficsonium chain

[tame harbor]

not a high bar

[surreal dune]

probably a scary amount since 31.72 uranium can make 50.4 rods and 112 ficsonium rods if somers arent an issue (meaning unlimited)

[meager kettle]

blaze did the math, was like 50.4 uranium, 22.4 plutonium, 39.4? ficsonium, store the rest of plutonium waste, then use the rest of sam to make 50 alien power matrixes and build 10 alien power augmentors and fuel em.

[tame harbor]

did that math yesterday

[meager kettle]

made something like 7.x tw

[tame harbor]

let alone then adding rocket fuel

[meager kettle]

yea i dunno the amount of rocket fuel they used

but it was 1.8tw before power augmentors

[surreal dune]

this was the highest i could get it on greeny's tool awhile ago

[meager kettle]

highest is 50.4 uranium, 22.4 plutonium and 112 ficsonium. Need to sloop one step making trigons to have enough sam. makes 1470gw total

if you just wanna store the plutonium waste, you make 280gw less

if you wanna sink the plutonium rods, you make 630gw

[tame harbor]

actually there was one thing we forgot to account for in this, using the Synthetic power Shard recipie to make all the Dark Matter Residue. because SPS is net positive on DMR

[meager kettle]

you also can't sink the shards

[tame harbor]

well making 112 fisconium rods will make exactly 480 Power SHards per minute

you know what THAT MEANS

[wind spade]

this is most I can make (assuming waste is allowed)

[meager kettle]

how?

you dont need to make any powershards :o

[tame harbor]

power shards don't consume SAM to make, and are net positive on DMR

and considering how much of a bottleneck SAM was for ficsonium rods?

[wind spade]

this is without byproducts at all

[meager kettle]

doesnt seem right

50.4 uranium rods go into 252 nuclear reactors for 630mw

[wind spade]

it's net power

[tame harbor]

i think the core issue is how Satisfactory tools can't do Sloops

(iirc)

[meager kettle]

22.4 plutonium rods go into 224 reactors for 580gw, and 112 ficsonium go into 112 reactors for 280gw

i guess its sam limited?

since that requires one step slooped

[surreal dune]

can't you sloop the entire sam production line?

[tame harbor]

and, in my fucking around in factoriolab showed, you also want SLoops in Ficsite ingots and trigon production

[torn plaza]

that's a lot of sloops

[meager kettle]

yes, but i think it used like 90 sloops doing all steps, reanimated + ficsite + residue

[tame harbor]

https://factoriolab.github.io/sfy/list?z=eJwtxcFOwlAQQNG.eYubSFpigc1bMPPGKiraEEJgV2yVGhGLwRAX8-2GxLM5h6gFeT4Mh6g949EkC20khWM0gezy.P.F5W7bxtvQfXWxDMf2HJPfcOf3PFFRe8Mrnb.zQe8nzvx6xoSByxRRxJASmSFzpEIWyBJZIbXLFmld3pC9yyfSuxyRM5IjA1TREn1En10rdIEuXVfoxrVGd64dukd79Nv1hF67FujYdYJekZRknkpS42lIGpEGblPMsBKbuT1gS2zttsG2bg22C.vDSxwWWfiJef4HJJ9Skg__&v=11

behold, 112 ficsonium rods and a bonus 7680 ionized fuel using 45 Sloops and a MERE 1493 Raw SAM (or 12.44%)

[mint coral]

using 90 sloops it better give you a better power boost over the Alien power augmentors would have given you plus the flat 4.5gw

[meager kettle]

it doesnt, but you dont have any waste to keep having to make storage for

which i value more than a few tw :p

[tame harbor]

i am, frankly, afraid of what i just made here

[mint coral]

Im okay with just sinkint the pluto rods

[meager kettle]

its kinda intresting. i got 16 pipes of rocketfuel, i could turn that into ionized fairly easily if i make the shards

[surreal dune]

how many sloops are there on the map?

[tame harbor]

that is, assuming my math-fu hasn't failed me, an extra 640 GW of ionized fuel

[mint coral]

106

[meager kettle]

105 after research i think

[tame harbor]

but doing the MAM research costs 3

[meager kettle]

ah 103 then

[surreal dune]

could sloop some of the uranium line for even more then right?

[meager kettle]

slooping uranium, means more waste, into more plutonium, and then costing even more to refine ficsonium. fine if you wanna store waste i guess

[tame harbor]

but we're trying to maximize power here

(right?)

[meager kettle]

the no waste is a hardline for me at least :p

i'm not building 50.000 industrial storages

[surreal dune]

dont want to store waste either

[meager kettle]

in fact, i might even considering going plutonium pellet option to make a little less plutonium :p

[tame harbor]

so, by using ficsonium rods you can make 2.11 TW of power

[tame harbor]

yeah, i think even 12.6 Plutonium rods is plenty to power even the largest drone fleets

[meager kettle]

oh i was gonna burn it and make ficsonium

[tame harbor]

fair, the conclusion i came to yesterday as well

only do the ficsonium loop when absolutely necessary

AKA burning the 50.4 uranium rods is no longer cutting the mustard and you don't want to build mroe rocket fuel

[meager kettle]

pellets make 18.9 plutonium rods over the 22.4 from isntant cells. makes ~472gw, and then makes ~94.5 ficsonium for 236gw. not a huge tradeoff really. might just go all the way, but i'm not there yet, still working on the designs :D

[tame harbor]

here i am procrastinating building the phase 3 parts

[meager kettle]

i made this, but i need to make the ring bigger, working out how big it should be :p

[mint coral]

me too. I built the work area but i still have to make the Mod engines. Everything else is going though

[tame harbor]

its going to rain so i'm off tomorrow, will porbably build it then

[tame harbor]

god the more i dig into this the worse it gets

[teal tiger]

any idea how i can get my stuff back?

[tame harbor]

so many "but you'll run out"

[vapid gorge]

on top of a node and hit box merging it looks like try different angles and crawlign up to it poiting upwards at the box

[teal tiger]

im cooked for sure

[tame harbor]

And this is why I disable "drop inventory on death"

And also fauna aggression

I found the combat thoroughly uninteresting

[mint coral]

i enjoy playing tough hardcore modes

just not in this game. this is my chill game

[teal tiger]

im playing gregtech and satisfactory simultaniously thats my version of hardcore gaming lmao

[mint coral]

my friends hate me so there idea of a good time is rust

[teal tiger]

3k hours in ark so cant relate

enemy team here

[teal tiger]

wdym by box merging?

[mint coral]

tried rust but it didnt stick. I couldntt find a play group to click with

[vapid gorge]

thigns have hit boxes, your loot box hit box and the node hit box are clipped together

[burnt dagger]

@vapid gorge so my other gen system is running good now havent added more then ten to the system yet. but i decided to try the the compacted system as well

[vapid gorge]

that's cool!
thoug hyou can compact it more with a bit of stacking - plus when you have hte 1:1:1 loop like that you don't need the container buffer

generally like 1 stack of empties in the intial packager should be ok?

[burnt dagger]

ok awesome im going to add more around it and see how many sustems i can fit in a small area without it looking like shit lool

[vapid gorge]

maybe make little structures around part of it? you c ould angle off different sections of foundation and make a rough circle of groups ?

[burnt dagger]

im going to try and do an staked build and see of i can get it running nicely and have toi take less room

[hollow rover]

how many train stations/depots do I need for one line 1200/min ores?

Trying to plan my factory and know how big should I allocate the space for train station

[vapid gorge]

what belt speed do you have and how long roughly is the trip?

[hollow rover]

right now 480, but I am designing this so that I can easily just upgrade only the belts/conveyers once I unlock them

so assuming this will be 1200 each in the future

number of machines won't change, so the space/area would not change

[vapid gorge]

well, in general, you can eyeball things to be 1 belt per platform as a safe bet

this starts to be less true with mk5 and mk6 belts as the cars tend to fill up fast

and you need shorter trip times

your question is a little tricky since you're aiming to upgrade? so it'd b e easier if we just planned for what you want in the future. So 780 belts?

[hollow rover]

Basically I am planning this factory as I won't have to change anything in the future besides the belts. That is why I need a rough estimate on how many train platforms I need so that I can plan how big this area will be

So basically this will be 6 mk3 iron ores 1200

[vapid gorge]

ok so you want it upgradeble with the idea you'll be making more and more ingots to move?

[hollow rover]

yes, to the max of 1200 per pure iron ore

[vapid gorge]

ok is this train goign to go from point A to point B or multiple stops?

[hollow rover]

only 1 stop

[vapid gorge]

ok SO there probably is a simple way to do this

I would dedicate 1 platfor mfor each belt then

[hollow rover]

this is also a trial run for my aluminum facitliy, where I want to take all the bauxite in the map and process it in one location. So anything I learn from this is helpful for the next project

[vapid gorge]

as you use mk5 and almost certainly mk6 belts, you can still keep the train station the same BUT you'll almost certainly need multiple trains doing the route

you'd set it to only leave when full

mk6 belts fill up cars FAST

which is why multiple trains doing the same route

[hollow rover]

okay, but still possible with just one train platform each right? So in this case I need 6 train platforms will suffice

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah def

[hollow rover]

thanks

[vapid gorge]

no stress! It's why I was asking all those questions. There's... no general 1 solution to a train problem

you really want to know the details to craft the solution

but this should be an upgradeble solution with minimum effort that I've given you

[naive fossil]

i unlocked Diluted Packaged Fuel as an alt recipe.. but its in the refinery? does it not need the containers or the packager to make?

[vapid gorge]

it does.

the simplest thing to do is to make a small self contained loop

packager > refinery > unpackager , then loop to start

[naive fossil]

oh i see im blind.. "Packaged Water" i read it wrong

[vapid gorge]

it happens 🙂

[vapid gorge]

an example of one someone just recently made #math-and-meta message

[naive fossil]

i was like whats the point of the packager? lol i see it now

[tight karma]

@vapid gorge tat trick you taught me yesterday about reusing alu water, how would that apply to this?

[vapid gorge]

I mean this layout shows a merging so you'd have to change that

you'd have an extra box of solution refineries that only work on the waste

[tight karma]

yeahh but i dont think i have enough waste water to make it work nicely

[vapid gorge]

of course you do

so you have 600 fresh and 300 waste right?

[tight karma]

i meant as in with round numbers of machines xD

[vapid gorge]

oh round numbers are meaningless.

Clock your machines. Clocking is THE tool to manage logistics in this game, makes ratios meaningless

playing without judicious use of clocking in this game is like breaking your leg before a race

[tight karma]

I know I know, but if i dont have to clock I'd rathher not, dunno why

[vapid gorge]

almost no system will work in a stable way in this game w/o at least 1 machine clocked to a degree

[tight karma]

like i know about clocking, my power consumpion is perfectly flat and i definitely dont have perfect ratios everywhere

[vapid gorge]

like there are so few 'ratios' that just work

[tame harbor]

remember, you can also underclock when necessary and don't need to use the full 50% gained per shard

[vapid gorge]

another option is still have the 2 groups , but have enough machines that you can leave them at 100%

they'll turn on and off over time but on average you'll still get your production

[tight karma]

i only overclock miners untill i get renewable shards

[tame harbor]

for example, a 250% Smelter making iron ingots feeds a 188% foundry using solid iron ingot. (which then feeds a similarly 188% clocked constructor making beams)

[tame harbor]

this kids, is why you sloop your slug processing

[vapid gorge]

underclock some then 🙂

[tight karma]

yeah yeah i know know

What's meta, underclocking one machine a lot or underclocking every machine a bit?

[vapid gorge]

the differences are so meaningless that the effort you try to figure out it with is more work than what you save

[tame harbor]

AKA if you gotta pick one, pick underclocking a single machine

[tight karma]

should I be bringing it in by train at this point?

[vapid gorge]

drones are also a choice.

[tight karma]

each node will give 600p/m, I'll need more drones than the US army has fighter jets

a drone will literally fill up in 1.5 minutes, per node, and there are five

Like I'm gonna need a mk5 belt for each of them (I could technically compress it onto four I think but it'll be going five identical factories next to eachother soooo)

[vapid gorge]

depending on distance 3 per node would work fine

[tight karma]

Wouldn't that require a stupid about of batteries?

(like don't get me wrong I love the idea of using drones, especially 15 of them, but still)

[vapid gorge]

you can use regular fuel too - drones accept most fuel sources.

and no it wouldn't need too many. 15 drones? ... I can't recall the burn time but probably 60 batteries pm?

[tight karma]

Hmmm, didn't know they took fuel as well

I have a bit of that

Hmmmmm okay but I'd need a lot of fuel

The wiki doesn't state exact values but turbofuel is 1/3 the energy density of batteries

And 15m/s slower

Oh damn they run on nuclear stuff too

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch drone

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=drone

[vapid gorge]

list of fuels should be on there 🙂
I like using plut rods

[tight karma]

Yeah I'm looking on the wiki

I haven't unlocked nuclear yet, but shouldn't be too difficult

I'm assuming I can build a tiny factory (in comparison) to fuel the drones.

Wait....... do the drones become radioactive?

[tranquil skiff]

Ok so Im producing 150 uranium waste per minute, i need 112.5 to go to one set of machines and 37.5 to go to another set.
Would anyone know how I could split that?

Im dying out here

[vapid gorge]

1 smart splitter set to over flow since, iirc, the second section is to a next step?

1 normal splitter would probably also work? but might be more jank?

[tranquil skiff]

Ill give it a shot

[vapid gorge]

you could also set it up so you had reactors make those numbers. Just clocking

[tranquil skiff]

Oh true

[vapid gorge]

but that would likely mean you'd have to rearange the last step if you've already built it

and an overflow smart splitter would work just fine too

[tranquil skiff]

Yes that too

[vapid gorge]

like, many options and depending on what you've got and where you're at some may be easier than others 🙂

[placid vessel]

ty so much, my pipe spaghetti is saved!

[tight karma]

How much do yours use? Would you say you'd only need a small quantity/factory for a handful (15) drones?

[vapid gorge]

I never actually calced it. I just shoved them full of fuel xD

you could probably test a route , I think it says on the port how much it's burning? or maybe on the drone itself?

[tight karma]

Dunno. I was hoping for a rough estimate so I didn't have to probably spend 4-5h researching both nuclear tiers early and then building a plant xD

[vapid gorge]

oh 1 plutonium rod pm is worth about 250 batteries pm

thats A LOT OF DRONES

[burnt dagger]

so i made it as compact as i could without fazing shit through stuff and making it look pretty clean looking

[tight karma]

Oh so it's basically worth it then xD

I also only just realized I could've just read the numbers......

[vapid gorge]

better than points imo 😄

[vapid gorge]

I like it 🙂

[tight karma]

Do they make the drones radioactive? And do I get radioactive waste I have to deal with? (Cuz I'll have to plan for that beforehand but don't know exactly what is and what isn't radioactive

[burnt dagger]

what it looks like with the walls up in the fron everything is in here

[lime junco]

Yes, iirc they do become radioactive, like anything with a rod in its inventory, and no, they don't produce waste to my knowledge

[vapid gorge]

iodine filters automated though makes radiation a non issue

[heady sun]

is it possible to balance 2:5 out of a train buffer

because storage containers dont empty 50/50 out of each port

[vapid gorge]

use one output each

do 2x 1:5s, merge one of each

or just use over flows and manifold it

[heady sun]

oh smart ty

its a hideous mass but it works

[gray flower]

if it works it works

[tight karma]

I thought you just needed a basmati suit for that?

Why did my phone autocorrect hazmat to basmati wtf

[vapid gorge]

xD
no need filters on top of the suit

[tight karma]

Damnit

[vapid gorge]

like gas mask

just automate them in a dim depot

[tight karma]

Yeah yeah but there's already so much stuff I need to automate 😭

Like I was gonna make some alu but now I need motors and nuclear stuffs and filters and aaaaaaaaa

[vapid gorge]

that's the game 😛

[heady sun]

skip nuclear, become a saudi oil baron

[tight karma]

I'd rather burn it for power than burn it in drones

[heady sun]

oh ur doing drone stuff with it i didnt read up

[sand epoch]

Nuclear is overrated. Rocket is enough for everything.

[tight karma]

Isn't nuclear simpler as long as you toss it into drones?

Afaik they don't create waste

[unique cypress]

They don't

You can also toss the plutonium rods into a sink and that also doesn't generate waste

[latent shard]

Hey ! Do you guys know what thing makes mobs spawn ?

I tried to put some fondation but doesn't seem to work

[vapid gorge]

you mean STOP spawning?

[meager kettle]

powered machines that are not idle, and train tracks seem to mostly prevent hostile creatures from spawning near. they can still spawn some way off and wander in tho

[vapid gorge]

powered machines

[latent shard]

ok and any recommendation on wich machine should i use ?

[vapid gorge]

whatever you want to make stuff?

[wind spade]

Same for the other way around

[orchid brook]

why?

ok fixed it