math-and-meta

[ionic sapphire]

go on... ?

[whole imp]

All Praise the Mercer Sphere.

[wind spade]

Direct input

[ionic sapphire]

i wonder if those 2 emotes are made for each other on purpose

[whole imp]

They’re the same shades and such, so I’d say so.

[ionic sapphire]

how are you feeding the first machine in the DI line

[whole imp]

Plus, it’s funny to see the two together.

[ionic sapphire]

unless you just dont care about splitting belts ever

and ONLY do DI

[outer vale]

protip: you can use different methods in the same factory

[ionic sapphire]

well yea, high throughput items i just manifold

low throughput items i roughly balance

otherwise the array never starts up fully in all my time playing that save

[wind spade]

However you want 🤷

Direct input isn't necessarily 1:1 either

[ionic sapphire]

how are you getting to that reasoning

1:2 is already a balancer

[frosty owl]

Both N:1 or 1:N count as "direct input"?

[ionic sapphire]

💀

[wind spade]

I basically count "anything that has m:n, only needing 0-1 splitters and 0-1 mergers" as direct input

and yeah, possibly even 1:n or n:1

[frosty owl]

A bit of a mouthful, but makes sense xD

[wind spade]

my interpretation of direct input is "grouping machines to make/need specific amounts", so as long as it's not just a manifold, but rather small separate blocks, it's direct input

[ionic sapphire]

i call that dedicated machines, or dedicated production

[latent shard]

best fuel for the jetpack when we just unlocked it ?

[vapid gorge]

depends what you like really , you pretty much just have liquid bio fuel and regular fuel

solid biofuel is... a bit of a joke

[wind spade]

each fuel gives you different flight parameters, pick one that you like most

[latent shard]

yeah i tried solid bio fuel and it last 10 seconds xD

[vapid gorge]

I think fuel has a higher height it can raise you to? liquid bio fuel has a long burn time but low climb

but the jet pack really isn't a 'climbing' tool

[ionic sapphire]

what else, a distance tool ?

[latent shard]

and i see that we can't use coal for the jetpack ...

[vapid gorge]

nope xD

would be funny

my prefernce early on is liquid bio fuel tbh, really good to cross terrain and just hover over it.

sprint slide jump then jet pack to keep up the velocity

[meager kettle]

liquid biofuel

has about same speed as normal fuel, but like 10x the burn time

then when you get rocketfuel, you can go up very high very fast, and die falling cause you used it all :p

then ionized is like the perfect balance of speed, height and duration

highest forward momentum, 2nd highest height and 2nd longest burn time

[mint coral]

I find the best rocket fuel is the one you like. they all feel diffrent. As others mentioned Biofuel gives the longest burn time but little actual thrust, even though it gives great hieght.

Personally i like Rocket fuel. Feathering it gives you much control hieght and speed

[summer flare]

There is a way. The ratios 27.5 to 22.5 and 5 are 11 to 9 and 2 so just a splitter/merger assembly needed to do that required.
Despite what others say, a reason to do this is because you can and the reason they suggest otherwise is because they can't 😄

[outer vale]

a reason is that that needs 8 things and manifolding needs 1 😛

it's always doable, it's just a question of if it's worth it. which is of course subjective, some are very hardline "never try and perfect split"

[mint coral]

i need 478 copper ingots. I have access to 480 ore..... I just made 480 ingots and sunk the extra two lol its easier

[unique cypress]

I wouldn't've even bothered with the sink

If I connect a group capable of making 480 to a group consuming 478, then that first one isn't gonna be making 480, it's gonna make 478

[mint coral]

for sure, this just prevents a smelter from idle every nowand then. I just wana see green lights lol

[fervent spire]

I might be overthinking this...but I have a potentially weird question about manifolds.
So let's say I have 300 ore into smelters making 300 ingots going into constructors making whatever.

I know you have to let the manifold fill up before all machines will operate at 100%. But I noticed that if I do this for, say, the first stage and I let the smelters fill up, the when I turn on the constructors the smelter line is actually outputting more than 300 ingots due to the "buffering" in the output slots of all the machines - and it seems like this causes the smelter line to stutter and not produce efficiently for some time, because some of them turn off while the belt clears.

My questions are

• will this backup ever actually clear? I think it won't? Because essentially between the smelters and the constructors, I have more than 300/min worth of ingots in the belts+smelter outputs and since the smelters are producing 300 and constructors consuming 300, that won't ever change.
• does this actually cause any problems? I feel like it's just aesthetic because the belts will constantly be stuttering but even if the section between the smelters and constructors is overfull, it will still move along at 300/min right

[outer vale]

letting manifolds fill is specifically the inputs (though the outputs might fill as part of that)
if the smelters are stuttering then they're not running at 100%, so you're (temporarily) producing less than the downstream machines need, so it should eventually sort itself out

[fervent spire]

I guess technically one way to resolve this could be to let the ore fill up to the smelters, run the smelters until the ingot manifold into the constructors is also full, turn off all machines, manually remove the stack in the output of the smelters, and then start them up again?
So that the "main" starting manifold-

Oh okay yeah that makes sense. It'll sort itself out because they're producing less, that's the part I missed

[outer vale]

if you like tidy belts then you can indeed just manually remove that excess

[meager kettle]

the last machine, will shut off once the 2nd last is full, it will then get fed while its starting back and it will have a small buffer enough to stay on 100%

[mint coral]

you can also manually clear the output in the machines and just clear the backup. after that they should run smooth

[fervent spire]

Yeah I guess I'm wondering if that causes issues if I do it while the system is running or if I need to fill all the input stages, clear all the output stages, and then turn it all on at once. Which I suppose is easy enough to do if I wire the power in a sane way

All in the name of visually pleasing belts

[meager kettle]

it wont cause issues

as long as out=in

[fervent spire]

Okay cool. So sounds like the solution to making tidy belts is just to manually clear the output stack in every machine after letting the system fill

[outer vale]

pretty much

[hushed silo]

tbf despite a challenge it was still nice however more importantly gave me this idea that instead of making everythin with pure or leached recipe u can move packaged water by train amd not be limited by location or local water supply

its alot of work but idea nevertheless

[thorny root]

It's true. This design or a similar one could load quite a few trains full of water.

[thorny root]

Though... You're going to have a lot of fun figuring out your bottle return program.

I have made a BP that combines 6 constructors with 6 assemblers to make a high density "Bolted" BP (handles bolted plate, bolted frame, and any other high demand screw injection assembly)

No funny collision or janky belts, all clean and tidy.

I love catwalks. I love the blueprinter. High density, walkable, and semi-aesthetic just by being clean and tidy.

[hushed silo]

damn looks clean

[strange tusk]

@mint coral this is something i just threw tg to make sure i understand the basics of trains before i even think abt tacking phase 3 and aluminum did i make this correctly?

[meager kettle]

uh, not recommended to do that

[strange tusk]

how would i go about it im trying to understand how to make a 2 lane railway change directions

[meager kettle]

if you actually want the track over another, it needs to be at least 10m above

otherwise, just lay em flat and let em cross

[strange tusk]

this i just a quick example i threw down to make sure i undersand the concept

dym like this @meager kettle ?
\

[meager kettle]

ya

[strange tusk]

i thought it would look weird if i clipped them but this does make alot more sense

[mint coral]

Neko gots you. The cat is a pro

[ionic sapphire]

and now look at what direction that merge is, and think about if its going the right directon

[meager kettle]

if you lay tracks over like that, the game sorta treats em as separate blocks, so you can end up with a train colliding cause they cross but not in same block

[strange tusk]

i see thank you

[meager kettle]

no

should go like that

[ionic sapphire]

maaan, dont solve everything for him

[strange tusk]

thank you for the help i understand this much more now

hopefully signals arnt too confusing i have a bit of understanding of how blocks work

[mint coral]

Signals are easy. Understanding bugs and fighting the game to place them right is hard

[meager kettle]

this is typically how i prefer to do it, tee off the main train line, then go into a station (or more) then send em back onto the main train line

[strange tusk]

this is actaully amazing thank you soo much

[meager kettle]

this way, trains going to stations do not impact traffic on the main highway at all, or very minimally at least

[ionic sapphire]

@scenic gale

[fervent spire]

In theory if you have two trains going to the same station from different routes, that should be fine as long as they are not using the same storage containers right?
Only issue might be when the lengths of their routes intersect badly, but if you check the math such that the worst case RTT of a train having to wait the full unload duration of the next train still maintains the throughput you want, it should be fine right

[meager kettle]

yea, you can have one train unload in terminal 1 and 2, then another do 3 and 4. if you're unloading back to back in same terminals, they might not unload fully and you can experience thruput issues

[wind spade]

I mean it is not supposed to be consistent

[fervent spire]

I'm trying to think if I want my train network to be 8 car trains or 4 car trains and I feel like the biggest difference is really the physical layout of the stations. But if it's 8 car trains and one route only has like 5 resource nodes to transfer, then technically I'm wasting the 3 depots at the destination line. So I'm thinking of having another train going into that terminal to bring 3 cars of stuff from another location

[wind spade]

Nobody said it has to be that way

[fervent spire]

Writing it out like this I feel like having 4 car trains is gonna make it easier lol. If I need more than 4 resources from a location I'll just run more trains on the same route and build out an extra station

[meager kettle]

8 car long trains will have a slight speed slowdown on inclines, while 4 car ones wont at all

[ionic sapphire]

game design

[fervent spire]

Well it would be 8 car with 2 locomotives. I have that for my current 2 train lines but I'm trying to plan better for the main network I want to start building now

[naive sand]

I reckon you don't even need to have a "Standard" train size across your network. Some factories might only need 2 cars worth of materials, so just do that. Smaller stations at those factories too

[fervent spire]

I guess it's not impossible to build multiple sizes of stations at the same location yeah

[meager kettle]

also smaller trains spend less time in intersections, so could be advantageous from thruput perspecting. but if you have intersections which dont cross, longer trains wont affect that

[fervent spire]

I think that could scale weirdly though and could technically be more efficient depending on the combination of trains you have going into a particular factory

[wind spade]

Game design is that mk3 is multiplier of 45 because that's the number that often comes at that point

[naive sand]

it does also come down to how much space are you giving yourself at your train stations. Might be you have to cram it into a corner so long trains just won't fit in the first place

[ionic sapphire]

consistency would be more convenient

[wind spade]

Not much tbh. You don't care about ratio between belt tiers

[naive sand]

I've not played a save file to completion yet, so I don't have full scale rail network experience yet, but I'm not sure if consistency of train size matters much

[wind spade]

You only care if it can carry enough

[fervent spire]

Like if I need resources into a factory and they're coming in from places that have 6, 4, and 2 nodes, let's say. One car per node.
I might just build 3 4-car stations at the factory and have the 6 resource area send 2 trains of 4 to 2 different stations at the factory. Share one of them with the 2 resource area.

[naive sand]

oh, consistency is talking about belts, not trains. My bad

[ionic sapphire]

yea, and if the numbers are random you have to look at them every time

[fervent spire]

But end of the day this is probably overthinking it and I should just build stations as needed

[wind spade]

I remember them and I haven't played the game for 5 years

[meager kettle]

i kinda like belts are faster than the typical numbers. like mk3 having 270, while 240 is the typical number you run into. and mk5 at 780 when 600 is the easy number to work with. nothing says you need to fully fill a belt, infact, that can cause hiccups in supply

[ionic sapphire]

null

[fervent spire]

8 car platforms are honestly ridiculously large and I kinda like the size of 4 better even if I have to build more sideways

[meager kettle]

longbois :p

[fervent spire]

270 works perfectly for the 45 input recipes and there's a decent amount of those, so it's quite nice

There's a lot of combinations of divisors in this game that end up working and the belts and miner outputs all piece together in different ways for them

[wind spade]

Also back in time we had mk4 at 450/min 🙂

[fervent spire]

Oh that sounds cursed lmao

30 above is great 30 below is rough xD

[wind spade]

Was pretty fun

It's not 30 below, your foundries work at 45/min

Fits perfectly

[meager kettle]

yea, was just a smol issue outputting 450 onto a 450 belt, which is the reason i think they upped em to 480

[wind spade]

They upped them because community cried it's not 480

No issue in outputting it tbh

[meager kettle]

i distinctly remeber last machine not getting to output, and still see same issue with mk6 now, where if you try put 1200 onto a 1200 belt, last machines wont really output fully

[wind spade]

That was a bug around U7-U8 and got fixed

[meager kettle]

still happens, trying to outpu two 600/min blenders of scrap onto a single 1200 belt

first one is fine, second one slowly fills up

[wind spade]

Build issue or actual bug, but not a reason to up belts

File a QA report

[meager kettle]

i did, meanwhile i just try avoid max rates, and its been working fine

[wind spade]

And most people do max rates just fine 🤷

[meager kettle]

its seems to be exclusively on machines producting a large stack of items at a time

smelters doing like 1 at a time, no issue

those blenders putting out 30 at a time

[candid fossil]

I just realized my very first project (biochemical sculptors) somehow uses up half my worlds existing SAM ore... am i cooked?

[mint coral]

You could produce less\min

[candid fossil]

i mean... i already built 10 assembly director systems per min

and all the previous 250 machines for it

[meager kettle]

you're making nearly 400 sculptors/min??

[candid fossil]

40

[meager kettle]

so you're using like a normal node

not half

[candid fossil]

well it says it needs 800 trigons and that translates to 2200 SAM ore.. i through there was only 4200

even with recipe that use the least amount of reanimate sam

[meager kettle]

theres, 10300 or 10800, forgot which

[candid fossil]

ohhh ok thats fine then ty i was wrong

[meager kettle]

also dont use iron to make ficsite

[candid fossil]

yeah im using aluminym

[cedar folio]

That number on Tools though is based on using sloops on the miners.

[meager kettle]

you cant sloop miners

i was a little off, 10200

[cedar folio]

Sorry meant power shards not sloops.

[meager kettle]

why wouldnt you use shard on miners, its just more resources

[frosty owl]

Care to share the setup? 👀
I like to keep informed of such issues (and how to avoid them)

[meager kettle]

its just two blenders on instant scrap and a merger

[frosty owl]

Also the QA post, if it got any answers

[meager kettle]

at 200% oc

its dead and buried, cba to find it

[wind crown]

Because it's an interesting challenge not doing it

[frosty owl]

A picture (or savefile) would allow to better understand the situation and possibly make sure of what the issue is

[meager kettle]

hm not been on that save in awhile, lessee if it works

[frosty owl]

If you do find it, you can share it via DMs

[twin wind]

does this sound right to people

curde 1800/30=60refinerys

60x40= 2400heavy oil

2400/30=80refinerys

80x60=4800fuel

4800/20=240feul gens

[frosty owl]

Replace the "*"s with "X"s xD

[meager kettle]

so this was my first alu plant in 1.0. theres 28 blenders, paired up outputting onto 14 1200 belts. on every pair, the second blender always fill up slowly, if iempty it, its fine for about an hour or so (miscounted, its 28 to 14 belts)

[frosty owl]

The math checks out

[twin wind]

thanks man it just didnt sound right

[mint coral]

Checks out but if you are one to optimize output you may want packaged diluted fuel too

[twin wind]

i got both heavy oil residue and diluted packed fuel

[frosty owl]

Ohhh, nice, long belts with many segments... The ultimate way to stress-test maxed out belts!

[meager kettle]

i did output them into sinks first jus tto see if it ran, but same issue then

[frosty owl]

Were the sinks much closer to the blenders than the actual consumers?

[meager kettle]

theres also a sink before each belts manifold, to make sure its running always

yea, i built them ontop of that where the lifts output

like its as simple as it can be. two outputs merged

belt length should not matter, its not pipes

[frosty owl]

That's quite worrying...
Have you ruled out the "hoverpack bug" already?
And do you have an idea of what's the smallest number of belt-to-belt connections involved in the issue (eg: shortest belt between merger and sink; belt-to-lift or lift-to-lift count too)

[meager kettle]

yea i've not used hoverpack there

[frosty owl]

It can matter in terms of belt-to-belt connections involved

[meager kettle]

i've trouble shot that for hours upon hours

never did figure out why it did it

initially i thought it was my pc at the time being shit, cuz the cpu would hit 100% now and then, but i've tried it on new one and still happens

[frosty owl]

Are you sure you never used it during your tests?
It can cause issues even when flying on the other side of the map, depending on how things are set up

[meager kettle]

the efficiency does vary tho, from 95 to 98%

yea

i actually binned it, so i wouldnt use it on accident :p

[frosty owl]

Urgh...
This sounds an awful lot like the "good" old throughput issues with maxed belts...

[dusky dust]

There are issues with 1200/min on mk6 that are related to performance, btw

[frosty owl]

Either that or it's "just" the merger giving issues

[meager kettle]

i just sat there watching the blender from empty to just slowly creep up to 400+ in its inventory

[dusky dust]

Like I was able to reproduce by having a totally-working-fine big ol' 1200/min system working great on a "fresh" AGS save which would start having underruns when put into my lategame 1.0 save

[frosty owl]

But the issue showed on a blank save too...
Right, @meager kettle?

[dusky dust]

In my case it was definitely performance-related

[meager kettle]

yea, my miners would all be like 98%, swapped to new pc, 100% no issues

[meager kettle]

well not blank, i've actually not tried it on a creative world

its a late phase 4 setup, so factory count is yes

[dusky dust]

Yeah, what I'd ended up doing was creating a decent test case on an AGS world, let that run for a few hours, and then imported it into my 1.0 save w/ SCIM

pretty much immediate underruns

[frosty owl]

"Blank" was a poor choice of words, but I reckon the performance load with such a save was much lower/negligeable compared to the one in your original save, right?

[dusky dust]

I'd done that after a worked-wonderfully-for-many-tens-of-hours 1200/min aluminum setup started lagging after a bunch more builds on the save; started to wonder if I'd not actually verified functionality originally

[meager kettle]

old save is kinda lorge

its like 40mb

[dusky dust]

But in the end it was definitely a throughput-loss-due-to-potato-PC issue for me

[mint coral]

You sure? I dont see you ever doing large projects 😒😜

[meager kettle]

yea i never do :p

i mean it only used like 60% of the bauxite

the next one used 100%

[dusky dust]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/67a3d9f6db9d5c113971d181 fwiw. :D

[frosty owl]

Sighs in plans needing rework and additional care and logistics...

[meager kettle]

made a quick setup, lets see if it does it

so far so good

600+600=1200

wonder if its more of an issue when a save is like, very lorge

[frosty owl]

Try breaking up the belt between merger and sink into more than one segment

[meager kettle]

altho they are perfectly out of sync

[frosty owl]

Actually, to make sure... Is the belt (between merger and sink) currently one belt segment?

[meager kettle]

ye

i changed it to this

second machine is now slightly building up

also just to give the valve haters an aneurism

[frosty owl]

Welp... Belt-to-belt throughput loss it is!

[meager kettle]

so the thing seems to be, every now and then, it like hiccups, and one scrap is not output

and since its 1200 out to 1200 capacity

it can't catch up

and it just keeps building up

belts still read 600+600=1200. but as inventory builds up every so slowly

it can't output the 30, when theres more than 470 in there

so it chugs

at this rate it will prob be 20+ hours until then, but... it'll happen

i put in 42 in there from dismantling belts, its now gone up to 44 when its adding next batch

i kinda wonder if its the lifts

its the lifts

its running like before with the one beltsegment

been adding scrap to the last blender, with like 1, 2, 4

thats been output no problem now

added 8, it took 24 cycles, but it ate it and its gone

how would that work?

[frosty owl]

BTW, these were some of the test results we had before U7. Just as a reference on how the numbers of segments affected throughput back then (things might differ now, but I reckon that the increase in loss-per-connection might be similar)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006573529183027401/1048911262999908393/Screenshot20220824-18530800000-1.png?ex=69aaaebc&is=69a95d3c&hm=b655f7425b4c2379edea069408f393ef16487f3c9df9dce9d5286cc595fcead8&

[meager kettle]

seems its still an issue

put in another 8, its reduced the remainer to 3, and has apparently stabilized there

[frosty owl]

... I'm not even sure wether the same testing setup can be used nowadays though (where the loss in throughput could be detected via overflow splitters). I've read of a few issues regarding smart splitters that might make them not fit to reliably detect things as we used to do...

[meager kettle]

i could put one infront of the sink

[frosty owl]

Ideally it should be right after the merger (the loss didn't show within one belt segment so long as the semgnets connect anything with buffering like machines or splitters/mergers)

[meager kettle]

well i did this

so far nothings overflowed

[frosty owl]

The overflow is expected to show at the start of the belt (close to the merger), not the end 😅
At least if it's behaving the same as "back then"

[meager kettle]

more belts

hm theres a hole

it is building up in the blender again th

[frosty owl]

Why don't you put the splitter after the merger rather than before the sink? (Or both...)

[meager kettle]

did both, reset blender inventory

went to bring in a sulfur node, got tired of handfeeding a box :p

so far nothing in overflow

2nd blender up to 8 items in buffer

[west plover]

How do i even start placing signals for this?

[frosty owl]

Tbh, it'd be a bit if a relief if we happened to find it happens just with lifts...

[west plover]

Bidirectional trains is the plan

[meager kettle]

well the left most blender is ever so slowly backing up on scrap

[fallen falcon]

Is that a good turbofuel setup in the crater?

[frosty owl]

One way is to start from the end of any branch and place signals along it, then do the same backwards. Finally, repeating for all branches

[west plover]

Block signals? How many signals?

[frosty owl]

Have you read their description and tried placing some yet?
The system helps you out quite a bit, but you need to place some first

[dusky dust]

Bidirectional trains in that each one can go backwards or forwards? Like you're expecting them to all head back out of those stations and back down the "main" rail?

If so: that's just not going to work. Absolute nightmare

[meager kettle]

well first off, you're not doing that on a single bi directional track. second, put path signals at every junction, then block signals before stations

[west plover]

Yeah that was my idea

[dusky dust]

You're gonna have train contention up the proverbial wazoo

[west plover]

Oh, good that i didnt go further then

[dusky dust]

Bidirectional rails just do not scale

[west plover]

How should i do it then?

[dusky dust]

^ pairs of rails, set up like "lanes" on a road. That one is right-hand drive but you can do left if you want

[meager kettle]

10 trains on a single track which can handle 1 at a time... not a good idea

[dusky dust]

On any bit of rail there's only ever a single direction a train can be going

[frosty owl]

You might would have realized as soon as you started thinking about the actual signal placement
Eg: "how long would it take for a train to clear this block I'm creating...?"

[west plover]

I wanted the train yard look but i dont want to fuck myself over either 😭

[dusky dust]

That layout I posted is far from the only way of doing it, but it's got the advantage of being basically infinitely expandable off the side

[west plover]

Can i salvage anything or should i just rebuild the entrie thing?

[meager kettle]

#math-and-meta message this is how i typically do it

[west plover]

Where does the items go?

[frosty owl]

The quickest solution would be to just add one rail in front of all train stations, where trains can loop back from

[meager kettle]

into the freight terminals from below

our out

or above, whatever

doesnt really matter

[west plover]

Thats ugly though

[frosty owl]

That's for you to decide in your own game :P

[west plover]

Having conveyors going above the rails

[frosty owl]

You set the rules on what's "acceptable" in your save

[west plover]

Hmm, yeah. But my original idea is going into the trash

[meager kettle]

heres a way to do the items into/out of the train terminals

which is fairly clean

[west plover]

So this will work?

If i understood you guys correctly

[meager kettle]

yea

[west plover]

Im gonna design some kind of bridge going over the rails

[dusky dust]

Yeah, and then make sure that you've got dual-rail everywhere on your network. Pick which "side" to drive the trains on and stick to it. :)

[west plover]

Im going extremely brutalist this build, like concrete only.

[dusky dust]

(Or if you want to give Future You some headaches, enforce different-side driving based on biome and have little crossover areas!)

-# though seriously don't do that. :D

[west plover]

Yep already did from the beginning!

[west plover]

hell yeah!

Maybe another save lmao

I think they should add nuclear meltdowns to spice up nuclear

wdym they cannot fail? boring.

[frosty owl]

We can fail them by not setting thinngs up correctly ^^

[west plover]

Oh shit i set it up for left hand drive 💀

[heady sun]

do u have the ratios for base+electrode?

[meager kettle]

forgetting to connect the waste water from non fissile uranium had an intresting event happen :)

[west plover]

What happend?

[meager kettle]

there was a substanial amount of yellow spice barrels on my belts, and my power gain dropped from about 800gw down to 300, skirting th 299 consumption i had

power grid held on by a thread, panic built a wet concrete plant, cuz my initial idea was to reuse it for sulfuric acid, but that didnt happen

unfortunatly i was so panic'd i didnt take screenshot, but i did take one when my power production was coming back on and the plutonium was being produced and burnt

[west plover]

That doesnt sound fun

[meager kettle]

it wasnt, specially because i didnt use priority power switches at the time :p

so if that went, the whole world went

[fallen falcon]

Why do you have so many Sommersloops? I mean the 90 in your Inventory + 600.000 MW Power Boost...

[mint coral]

The power boost isn't that high when its 30% of a 1.4tw power grid per alien augmentor

[fallen falcon]

But those are still 100 Sommersloops...

[mint coral]

Oh you are concerned about the quantity?

Don't be. There is many ways to get more then the default 106. Its up to the player to decide what they are willing to do or not do

[meager kettle]

the game got updated, and all sloops respawned

so i kinda just played loose a cool with it, as i had like 210 of em

[vapid gorge]

there's always this example https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1286300794311938099/1286343954157277307/alum_options.png?ex=69aaeea9&is=69a99d29&hm=5b93ee79b892d06e462ea7ac8e48db5d6332f1caa2c202f7387412c9eceee643&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=934&height=1320

but honestly just figure out how much total water you need - waste water. That gives you your %s and makes your planning much easier

it'll look something like (756-298)/756 x100 = % using fresh water

[meager kettle]

i prob also duped a few playing around with the belt merge bug :p

[heady sun]

do storage units prioritize the bottom output or split the 2

[meager kettle]

neither

its fully random what it decides to do

if its full, it'll output max on both

but if you put 100 items in, you can see 0-100 on one belt and the rest on the other

[vapid gorge]

@gritty void @final cargo

Ok pinging you both in to how easy it is with no extra step or resources or ratios

this is an example of the various 'ratios' of the recipe combos

this still feeds the fluid back into the system without limestone or anything

it's the exact same work as connecting them, except you dont and the clocking on the solution refineries are a bit different

for example this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1289415239149813840/image.png?ex=69aae645&is=69a994c5&hm=9b0eb931bb3845470daeaee56cd4bfdad48e64a3f664f1c466a5d9edcfa14629&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

blue line is fresh, red is waste

in a lot of circumstances you can direct feed teh solution refineries into the scrap for 'nice ratios'

[gritty void]

Yeah I've cycled wastewater into other aluminium refineries before

[vapid gorge]

the top bit is the clocking for the practical example https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1364891243641049098/ratios.png?ex=69ab42c6&is=69a9f146&hm=45b96d7daa2ca1558953ffa7a2f922d0fd620a6fd5021fae7157dba81b734cc0&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[west plover]

I got the freight over the rails in a way i am happy with

[vapid gorge]

very nice 'ratios'

but again, ratios are completely meaningless in a game where you have control of consumption and production rates, you create your own ratios.

[gritty void]

Sure, I use machines at all kind of odd clock rates

[mint coral]

Now that the majority of your teaching is done.

Do you have this in a document ready to cut and paste 😛

[vapid gorge]

no I just do a quick search with me, image and 'alum' in it

all the teaching materials pop up fast

[gritty void]

So as I understand it, with this is you have to fully saturate the water on all the wastewater refineries before letting them produce, or it's a mess just getting them all up to speed

[vapid gorge]

so the fresh water will do it's thing and slowly the waste system will come on line and run at 100%

something you probably want to do is process each belt of bauxite in it's own little system
it's not impossible to connect many systems together but you run into all the same problems of regular fluids and connecting them into a big mess + a few more

[gritty void]

Yeah.

It works well, it's just a nightmare to troubleshoot

[vapid gorge]

just not worth the hassle and at BEST the only benefit is maybe reducing machine count a bit

[vapid gorge]

I wouldn't describe that as 'works well' personally xD

[gritty void]

Lmao

[final cargo]

Ok trying to understand the bottom right diagram

[vapid gorge]

but I suppose that's a bit subjective

[vapid gorge]

sure 🙂

[final cargo]

720 m3 of solution when pipe is 600?

[vapid gorge]

so this is showing a system with sloppy + electrode and the total water needed pm is 600

180 fresh
420 waste

[final cargo]

AH ok

[vapid gorge]

well this is just an example of the ratios so you don't need those numbers specifically but you'll notice there's multiple inputs and ouputs

much like the basic coal designs no point needs flow higher than 600

in fact I think in that example it's totally workable to use mk1 pipes? maybe?

I can't see all the theoretical numbers

This is using sloppy electrode as well https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1289415239149813840/image.png?ex=69aae645&is=69a994c5&hm=9b0eb931bb3845470daeaee56cd4bfdad48e64a3f664f1c466a5d9edcfa14629&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

and the solution machines are clocked so they just direct feed into the ones in front.

the clockings for 600 and 780 using those recipes if you're curious is the one I linked before 🙂

which seems like it does all the work for you really.
even if you ahve a 1200 belt you can easily extrapolate how to modify the 600 example

[final cargo]

yeah the 600 bauxite/min set up works well for further expansion/upgrade later.

[vapid gorge]

you'd need at least 1 extra scrap refinery for 1200, but I'd clock it so there was +1 scrap +1 solution.

pls feel free to save the images as clocking references 🙂

[final cargo]

for the scrap, you just clock it to match the alumina solution production of the bauxite?

[vapid gorge]

if you want direct feed? sure

in the 600 example I could have used only 4 machiens total though if you want it more compact

[final cargo]

the diagram indicates direct feed?

[vapid gorge]

1x90% 1x210%

[vapid gorge]

the grey lines might not be super visible

should probably edit that at some pont

[final cargo]

yeah that's indicating direct feed, correct?

[vapid gorge]

but it doesn't HAVE to be direct feed. I just find it pleasing

you can make it much more compact and connect them up like the ratio diagrams

[final cargo]

I prefer direct feed. keeps the aluminum production straightforward and easier to min/max

and then scale up as needed

[vapid gorge]

yeah that was my idea. And scaling to 1200 is easy to compact it

I just wanted to be clear it wasn't critical to do it that way

[final cargo]

yeah I'm clear on that, all good. Just working on getting over the initial hurdle of changing from VIP. I'm grieving lol

[vapid gorge]

look... vips are an exploit in the end. For some people they work every time, for others it's just a mess

I don't teach people hit and miss methods :\

[final cargo]

yup, worked for me for 1400+ hours. first time I've ever had issues with it for no apparent reason. Time for me to move on. I'm just resistant to this particular change lol

[vapid gorge]

I mean it's fair if it's something you like.
maybe if you think about how 1.2 could murder every VIP out there it'll make you feel better

[final cargo]

I was very fond of the VIPs, thought they were very clever.

[final cargo]

yeah exactly. making me bite the bullet before it's forced on me lol

[vapid gorge]

yeah. And people keep finding weirder behaviours like apparently the number of pipe segments in each part before the junctions can affect how it works??

just fucking black magic voodoo

if the black magic was reliable I'd consider using it. But it's full of angry demons at this point

[final cargo]

did this come about after 1.1?

[vapid gorge]

the pipe segments? I think it was discovered a while after 1.1

of course no idea if it existed the whole time. Probably since there really hasn't been any signfican't pipe changes since ... u6 I want to say?

and I don't even think that was a real pipe change

probably just an information loading change

it's possible there hasn't been any real pipe changes since start?

haven't kept track though

[final cargo]

makes sense. the vast majority of my playtime has been 1.0 and below. starting to put some real time into 1.1 and noticing some things ain't working so well anymore

[vapid gorge]

the only thing I can think of that could 'not work as well' are just the things that have always been a bit wobbly. Like VIPS or any of hte valve/buffer flow systems

+all the less than perfect pipe layouts

but that's a given really. The main issue with pipes is that you can get a lot of different things to work - just that most of those things are hard or impossible to replicate

That's why I show people repeatable and reliable methods 😄

ones you can, in general, trouble shoot much more easily

[final cargo]

yeah don't dispute that. I only consistently used VIPs because it was consistently reliable for me somehow over 1400+ hours. first time that I've spent days trying to figure out wtf was going on. I didn't advocate it for others to use

[vapid gorge]

RNG gods loved you then spurned you

[final cargo]

oh absolutely lol

[vapid gorge]

it's the reason why people come in with wild set ups and go 'I've used this 50 times and it's worked constantly' , and other people come in with the same and go 'wtf is wrong with this'
survivor bias

and when told it's moderately 'unreliable' they get defensive and translate unreliable as 'can't work'

which is wrong, lots of ways CAN work

[final cargo]

that's why when I couldn't get it to work consistently for me anymore, I had to inquire about it because I knew it was time to inquire and move on

[vapid gorge]

fair 🙂

[final cargo]

and yes, I recall a number of those discussion, I've backed you in a few of them

sorry back to the image real quick, the numbers indicated are in percentages?

[vapid gorge]

this one? yes

I only put the % on a couple cause lazy

I have a lot of little diagrams I can retrieve through searches that started out as slap dash help images for people

this is the only really dedicated thing I created for future use xD https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1399363719460556861/image.png?ex=69aac485&is=69a97305&hm=68223d3bafb15272a50b33486dd96ff2e1fc7dd4fcfccc6db8774e216926de38&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=385&height=300

[final cargo]

ok the numbers don't match up for sloppy alumina using those percentages

105% for scrap is only 189 sloppy alumina

[vapid gorge]

ok lets see

[final cargo]

whereas the 140% makes 336

[vapid gorge]

solution is
240 so x 0.9 = 216

electrode uses 180 pm

1.2

so the first bit of the 600 works out

1.05 x 240 = 252

[vapid gorge]

you got it reversed

bottom refs are solution , top scrap

[final cargo]

oh whoops my bad

[vapid gorge]

the blue line on the bottom is the fresh water coming in, and the red pipe from the refs is the waste water

it happens 🙂
I physically did the 780 example then wrote the 600 conversion so it's possible I could have made a mistake

but I've shared this with a lot of people and would have been surprised if someone hadn't pointed it out yet

[final cargo]

nope you're right, I had em backwards

[vapid gorge]

it happens 🙂

[tight karma]

What's more cost efficient, upgrading the dimensional depots upload speed or just placing more dimensional depots?

I lliterally just unllocked themm and they're AWESOME

[wind spade]

you want to do both in the end anyway

[final cargo]

both. you have more than enough spheres to unlock everything and build many depots. I personally prefer upload speed early game. the last upload speed upgrade costs 23 spheres and I'd rather upgrade stack size at that point

[meager kettle]

you can use multiple depots to upload same item, that you end up using a lot of. like concrete

max upload speed is 240/min, 2nd depot its 480, third 720 and so on

[tight karma]

hmmm, yeah but rn i hhave like 5 sphere's left over and I'm still traumatized from my last safari

[final cargo]

don't worry, it gets easier as you unlock better weapons, inhalers, jetpack/fuel, etc

[meager kettle]

played with spiders did you

[tight karma]

II have the jetpack and rifle 😭

[vapid gorge]

with these sorts of things in games the usefulness builds off each other.
So going +upload +storages tends to be more generically useful

[tight karma]

making them kitties didnt make them any less scary

[final cargo]

do you have homing ammo?

[tight karma]

I dont

prolly should

[final cargo]

that helps. also cluster nobleisks if you have a steady supply of black powder/pipes

[vapid gorge]

turbo for spray and pray works well too xD

[tight karma]

i have pipes but am working on black powder, before today i didnt feel thhe needd to automate ammo.....

[tight karma]

does it up the fire rate?

[vapid gorge]

it starts off slower but revs up fast yeah

[tight karma]

adding to list

[final cargo]

but gotta aim lol

[vapid gorge]

it does becomes less accurate though as it gets faster

great if a spider cat is in your face though

[tight karma]

ah crap i need aluminium for that

[vapid gorge]

you'll get tehre soon enough 🙂

[final cargo]

@vapid gorge still having issues, sloppy alum does not line up for these 2

[vapid gorge]

you've mixed the examples together this time https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1479238288220098662/image.png?ex=69ab4f82&is=69a9fe02&hm=ae88df3d44d51ba40d62c887b6ea146a4f4f841f4ed345c32d029a79d0bb217f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[final cargo]

OMG

please forgive me

[vapid gorge]

nothing to forgive xD

[tight karma]

the current/foreseable future solution xD

[vapid gorge]

yeah I just siphon a little bit off my power station atm

I basically jsut package some for drones and some of it goes to guns

[tight karma]

Yeah i made a way too complicated powerplant yesterday that I really dont feel like taking apart partially for a bit of ammo

like it's not that compliciated in satisfactory terms but like. idk

[hearty slate]

I’m sorry but what was the problem? I haven’t posted on this server in like a year T-T

[west plover]

Im so sorry pinged the wrong person!

[hearty slate]

lol all good!

[west plover]

Didnt mean to bother you 😭

[hearty slate]

No no I wasn’t busy at all, thanks for solving the problem(whatever it was)!

[royal yarrow]

What is that tool above? I tried using the one on satisfactory calculator website but its useless

[worthy willow]

Satisfactory modeler it’s an app on steam

[royal yarrow]

oh awesome thanks

[vapid gorge]

try tools - amazing UI.
Modeler is very manual. Takes ages https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[scarlet sky]

How the hell is water getting up that pipe, without pumps? That's a 30 metre rise...

[royal yarrow]

Had a look at that too but i like putting my own numbers in where I want them to be and half the tools and sites dont let you do that. Just putting the end result that you want. I am building my factories based on what the input of the nodes are so I need to start from the input

[scarlet sky]

I'll use a spreadsheet if Tools can't quite do what I want, it does happen. But, Tools is great for doing 80% of the grunt work even in those cases.

[vapid gorge]

yeah you just break down what Tools gives into appropriate sections yourself. Also much more quickly with more info

plus you can just swap out recipes in a moment and alter the whole plan to get an idea of what base resources and items are needed

instead of manually removing and rebuilding every single damn node

[scarlet sky]

The "maximize" feature can do a lot of leg work, too

[royal yarrow]

satisfactory modular cant keep up with my building lol. im building kind of basic and I have to wait for it to calculate a lot

Im sitting here looking at it myself with numbers and it should all be 1:1. Ive only done a small build in it to test and its stuck thinking for 10 minutes lol

[worthy willow]

I was hopeful for modeler but the way it works doesn’t work for me

[royal yarrow]

haha yea idk. Nothing is really working for me. The only thing that has worked for me is in game i just build a base one fast with no connections and if I have more ore coming in i just double or triple what I just built. That seems sooooo much faster

[worthy willow]

Yeah none of the websites I’ve used are as good as the real game lol

I ended up using mspaint to plan stuff at one point

[royal yarrow]

well i calculated in 10 mins on a piece of paper. sorted it myself. Thanks for all the info though everyone

Im just building a pretty big Rotor factory. Im nowhere near end game but working on early game factories. So this Rotor factory will produce 48 rotors per minute. thats not bad for where im at at the moment

[vapid gorge]

you were doing sloppy reg right? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=xY9maNo6X9hP6NBIGTPz

[worthy willow]

Yup

[vapid gorge]

well that's everything for it

done in about 3 seconds

[worthy willow]

That is a lot nicer than modeler

[vapid gorge]

and you can swap recipes in and out to see thechanges lightning fast

takes a little bit of learning but very worth it

[worthy willow]

The under clocking works great with two setups going I combined the two 50% into one line so it’s all running full speed

[vapid gorge]

clocking is the core logistical management tool of the game. Fixes jsut about any issue before it becomes one

[ornate mirage]

Do you know that you can swap the input/output items position with a click and drag - so you can drag ur rubber down under the Heavy oil so they don’t cross paths ;)

[ornate mirage]

Yeikes 😭

[royal yarrow]

Yea maybe im just bad at these sites and stuff. Or didnt give it enough time but a pen and paper worked out perfectly for me haha

[ornate mirage]

Fair enough 😆

[vapid gorge]

what were you trying to make?

[tight karma]

Duuuuuuuuuuuude, I was already trying to make it work like this and getting frustrated everything was always the wrong way around, thx!

[vapid gorge]

specifically, number of final output, alt recipes ect

[ornate mirage]

I like satisfactory modeler, it’s more manual work but it gives you the output with the resources you have instead of you trying to snipe the amounts via output preferences

Very easy to use and get into

[royal yarrow]

True. I used it for a bit but then it was on "?" for like 10 mins even though everything was connected and worked fine. and when i did the same diagram in game it worked fine. so i just thought maybe its still working out the kinks?

[ornate mirage]

It usually tweaks a bit when you add storages

[ornate mirage]

Lol probably - may I see the model you made?

[royal yarrow]

oh lol i deleted. i could replicate again sometime.

[ornate mirage]

Haha okay no worries but if you run into the same issue I’d love to take a look :)

[royal yarrow]

yea no owrries

[wind spade]

Tools can do that as well, and much faster

[frosty owl]

The question marks indicate that the planner doesn't know how to solve something; ie: it needs more data to properly calculate all the connections you made.
Eg: linking the output of a node (without any set limit) to something consuming a set amount of that is fine; adding a link to something with unknown consumption (like a storage) will result in question marks; adding a limit on the producer node will solve the question marks brought by the prior step

[royal yarrow]

Yea I couldn’t see any issue and I didn’t add any storage I didn’t play with the limits. And when I just went ahead and built it in game it works fine all 1:1 as well. Idk what the app was doing. I gave up on it

[ripe beacon]

Hey folks! I built this steel mill using numbers from a satisfactory playthrough but i wanted to try building the setup using Satisfactory Tools instead of watching a tutorial.

I wanted some advice on how to optimize it or maybe a way to get more out of it? I have some excess resources i'm sure could be used but im not smart enough to do it XD

Resource Amounts:

480 Coal / min
360 Iron / min (have more nodes near just not using currently)
150 Limestone / Min (also have more nodes)

Amounts being used:

270 Coal / Min
330 Iron / Min
108 Limestone / Min

Any advice is really helpful, i'm not really good at this game ;w;

(satisfactory tool setup also linked above :3)

[outer vale]

you could look at alt recipes you have access to (or could get access to) to see if any of those might help
you could also work backwards from what you actually want to make numbers-wise instead of trying to fit the output to the inputs

[ionic sapphire]

or just make random stuff from the leftovers
or dont care cause its gonna get overhauled in a couple hours

[outer vale]

pfft, rebuilding is optional, a working factory doesn't need to be replaced

(though steel I do usually make an exception to get solid steel up and running)

[ripe beacon]

lowk rebuilding things to be slightly more efficient is so satisfying to me

[ionic sapphire]

well didnt specifically say rebuilt

[ripe beacon]

ill rebuild something like 6 times just to get a 5% increase

therapeutic as hek

[outer vale]

I just build 'em 100% efficient in the first place and move on ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wind spade]

usually recommended not to do that

[outer vale]

rebuilding: +5%
not deleting the original: +100%

[meager kettle]

Rebuilding 105%. Not rebuilding: 100% :p to each their own. Rebuilding can be fun just to redesign something.

Just make sure you have the materials to do it if what you're rebuild is your only production of said items

[ionic sapphire]

most of my first time builds are temporary and are designed to be torn down

theyre just built so i have something producing while im building something better in a blueprint planner

[meager kettle]

also if you're looking to rebuild starter cuz you got mk5 now, its like 1300% production :p

[outer vale]

but if you left that starter one as-is and just built the new one, it'd be 1400% 😉

[wind spade]

if you build new and keep old, it's still more production for less effort

[meager kettle]

yea, its an option for sure. but maybe the placement of the machines and belting isnt appealing, and you wanna redo it to make it nice. its also valid

[wind spade]

I'm not saying it's not valid, I'm saying it's not more production than keeping old and building new

and it's definitely more time consuming

[meager kettle]

time in a game where a lot of us put hundreds if not thousands of hours into :p

[wind spade]

and yet some people would like to not waste time

[meager kettle]

maybe its not time wasted to them

also maybe they do both, build new AND rebuild (hi its me)

[wind spade]

it's their choice to do

but I'm still not gonna recommend it unless you have reasons for it

[thorny root]

I realize anyone who cares uses SCIM for this but if you need to get 2.5 degrees of angle without it, you can't, but you can get 2.4997 degrees of angle by measuring 160.5 meters out along two rays separated by 5 degrees, free-forming directly between the end points, and then come 7 meters off either end to be as close as will likely matter. This gives you a 90 degree ray back to center misaligned by so little that you can't actually tell, and if you can manage to free-form angle it all the way back to center, this reduces it further.

[wise remnant]

Are there any hard drive recipes that I should prioritize?

[mint coral]

the ones you think you can use

for example if you get a recipe that gives you 240 screws/min and you only have a belt speed of 120.... its not useful

[wise remnant]

what i mean is are there any that stand out as highly useful

[mint coral]

there is strong opinions on Recipes mine is they are all tools that have uses

[fervent spire]

I'm so upset that this needs 400 sulfur because it's literally 20 off from being able to run 2 setups of this with a mk5 belt

[wise remnant]

sorry but what software are you using

[ionic sapphire]

looks like the program off steam

[fervent spire]

yeah satisfactory modeler on steam

[mint coral]

its free. its mostly for layouts

[ionic sapphire]

@wind lion

[wind lion]

So 32 gens i believe, for 480 coal

[thorny root]

I have written two scripts to find better values. The first checks every possible (legal) straight line segment between two adjacent 5 degrees separated beams at 0.5 meter incrementing lengths, and the second scans the results to find the minimum.

2x 573m beams separated by 5 degrees radially.

Ends are 24.99985824907044 m from each other.

Measure out 12, click, H, nudge a half, freeform back to center.

Result: Really close to 2.5 degrees. Like stupidly close.

[candid fossil]

oh... no...

[thorny root]

Looks like something clogged.

[mint coral]

this is why i use power priority switches lol

[candid fossil]

im so confused how this even happened its been running fine for 60 hours of gameplay then this happened with no changes

[thorny root]

Oil without 100% of byproducts being used looks exactly like this.

[candid fossil]

hm

well i may aswell just cry

[thorny root]

Either that or for some reason, something that had previously been supplying at 100% decided to drop off a cliff. That usually only happens if productions start backing up because they can't get rid of byproducts. That can take forever to ramp up and hit, and then the cascade shutdown strikes fast.

[meager kettle]

should prob go have a look at your powerplant :p

[candid fossil]

going 🙁

[thorny root]

It can be as simple as a rounding error on your last machine on the line, or a pipe bottleneck you've overlooked. A machine that you forgot to connect. Depending on the scale and the amount of redundant paths... you've got some likely cuprits.

Having everything in full shutdown mode is going to very much complicate your efforts though.

[meager kettle]

shouldnt be hard to spot it, the generators will be out of fuel, trace back to the producers and see if some output is full or lacking input, then follow from there

[candid fossil]

somehow coal stopped getting supplied...

for rocket fuel

[thorny root]

Yoinked a powerline?

[candid fossil]

yepo you got it, was making sam fluctuators and replaced a mk2 coal miner with a mk3... didnt realize the power line went with it

[thorny root]

Well, glad that was an easy solve. Now you just have to yoink 10 more and ramp back up.

[candid fossil]

yeah thats gonna be a pain in the ass

[thorny root]

Yeah. Lot of pre-buffering if you want a smooth start.

[candid fossil]

i shoulda been setting up priority switches since the start

[thorny root]

Better multi phase it, do it right.

I wasn't anywhere close to guessing the cause of the stoppage, but oh well.

[candid fossil]

would u recommend i figure it out now or wait till i rebuild factories...i kind of have a sloppy power line setup between factories

[meager kettle]

it would prob make restarting your power easier

[thorny root]

Uh... now actually. It's all already off, you've nothing to lose, and you're going to have to do it anyway to online it.

[meager kettle]

isolate all factories with power switched, and then just turn on power

[candid fossil]

yeah fair enough

[meager kettle]

like coal, then fuel, then the rest

[candid fossil]

how exactly do you use priotity switches?

[thorny root]

Once you put the switch down, name it something that makes sense, and then when you pull up the grid, you can put the switch into a group (1-8) for priority.

And basically when power starts running out, the highest number gets shut off first.

[candid fossil]

so it kind of acts like a fluid valve?

[thorny root]

Generally you want all your power generation on its own priority switch and in the highest group.

Uh... It acts like a priority shut off. When a supply is too low, it starts cutting off customers, and it does that according to what bracket you've put them in.

[meager kettle]

not even a little bit

its just an on off switch based on priority and power availability

place it on the incoming power line for each factory

[thorny root]

It is possible to (and very much not advised) to have power generation be on a lower priority, and have your entire system never work properly again.

Like... If you were to take... all the sinks on the planet... and each attach them to their own priority power, or have all of them attached to one, it does not matter... And you assign those to group 8... Then when power runs out, it will stop sinking everything. This, again, is a bad idea... BECAUSE... Sometimes you need to sink byproducts to avoid overflow and backup. But it would also kill vast majority of power usage.

[candid fossil]

yeah.. ill start working on setting it up, ty guys

[thorny root]

I basically go: Miners and pumps supplying fuel raws as #1, fuel processes as #2, power generation itself as #3, and then #4 I think was my depot'd build materials factories, and 5 and so on were extra.

8 was my high power slot, converters, accellerators, etc

[tight karma]

when building a large facility for low tier items, how does one decide how many of which items to produce if you don't have any of the factories it'll feed planned out yet?

[thorny root]

by machine count and belt throughput.

[wind spade]

You never producr for future factories

[tight karma]

Or does one just build a giant smeltery and sink everything untill you need the ingots fdor somethhing?

[thorny root]

Also he's right. You plan your line in reverse. From end result down. And if you want to fluff it up to add clean numbers, you do so here.

[wind spade]

You make what you need now, future factories will make their own intermediates

[wind spade]

Don't centralise like that, it's usually a bad™ idea

[tight karma]

that feels backwards though

[thorny root]

You can do it either way. Build to max given available resources, or available area. You're going to run out of area sooner more likely. Then you go vertical. Or you plan your factory from the beginning with intention, ratioing everything with a final in mind.

[tight karma]

cuz thats what ive been doing up to this point andd its just been a headache findin thhe nodes i need somewhat close together

[meager kettle]

i dont, theres like iron everywhere, so if i need more plates i just make more plates

[thorny root]

Things you typically plan are aluminum usage, oil usage, sulfur usage, coal usage, quartz, etc... Everything else tends to fall into place within these limits.

[wind spade]

You still build the same amount of machines, but don't need to guess how much you'll need

[tight karma]

hmmmmm

[wind spade]

See also https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency

[tight karma]

cuz like, my "base" sits on 4 pure iron and 2 pure copper nodes and I make prettyy muchh everything I need, just not in huge quantities useable by other factories. Y'all saying I shouldnt tear it up to make one big giiant smeltery/low-tier-itemsery?

[tight karma]

yea this is what Ive been doing so far

[wind spade]

Definitely not tear it down

[thorny root]

What I tend to do is pick a large area (500m or so) and purposefully pull all the relevant resources from nearby into a clean and flat build area and start making large volumes of a singular product, or span of products from those materials.

[wind spade]

Big smeltery is fine-ish, but still tons of logistical issues for not much gain. I do not recommend

[tight karma]

hmmm, thx for the advice

(I stilll have to rebuild most cuz i was smart and built it on three different grids and I wana connect te to a small mall lol)

*5

[thorny root]

holding ctrl while placing foundations is your friend

holding ctrl while placing most things is worth a shot.

[tight karma]

yea I've known about the world grid for a long time, i just..... forgot idk

[thorny root]

XD

[tight karma]

2 sec

[mint coral]

thats not a bad thing lol

[thorny root]

it just creates more problems that are not easy to solve.

[wind spade]

Can easily connect separate grid together

[thorny root]

Particularly if they need to cleanly intersect

[wind spade]

World grid is a trap anyway

[thorny root]

World grid is a helpful tool. It's only a trap if you think you have to have it to build the way you want, and can only think in straight lines.

[tight karma]

I also think in ddiagonals as long as they're 45's (or if they in some other way nicelly line up, thx pythagoras)

[wind spade]

For sure, but if you go with "everything must be on WG", you've already fallen into the trap

[thorny root]

Why do you say it's a trap? What failure is it setting someone up for?

[thorny root]

I'm quite fond of hexes, 60, and 30 degree intersections, as well as full on circles with as many 'sides' as there are machines in the array, or similar.

[mint coral]

i know this spot. Its my fav start locale

[tight karma]

I have been meaning to build a circular factory, but I'm waitiing for something I need a boat loadd of so I can make like a pit of stuff thats just endless materials

[tight karma]

I like the view and the forest behind it :)

[wind spade]

Removes possibility to adjust for terrain, increases logistical effort, eberything is right angles only, etc.

[mint coral]

that world save will always stick with me. I really learned a lot that run

[tight karma]

this spot ddoes make you think about stuff more than in the plaines

[mint coral]

i made a crocodile in that river ^_^\

[tight karma]

this is my first proper solo playthrough and I'm doing a surprising amount differently than in all my other saves

[tight karma]

with like foundations or?

[thorny root]

pipes and beams I suspect

[mint coral]

its a train hub one second

[tight karma]

thahts pretty cool

[mint coral]

i was going to put scales ontop but decided to leave it open

[tight karma]

although i cant hhelp but miss the trees 😭

or are they just out of render distance?

[mint coral]

well there isnt much trains here as the river is part of the rocky desert.

and i likely cut many for biomass early as i skipped coal this save

[tight karma]

no no i mean behindd the station on the cliffs

[mint coral]

oh lots up there.

[candid fossil]

my idea was just section each factory off (they are all independdant mostly) and place those as priority. tbh so far its all the same priority apart from power at the top in my eyes

[mint coral]

this picture is from really far away. up on a cliff/ mountian ion the rocky desert

[tight karma]

ahh they prolly didnt render then

i got my coal there in the river

[mint coral]

i put things i never want to black start in the top tier

[mint coral]

ya i skipped coal and forced myself to fuel ASAP that world

[tight karma]

damn

[mint coral]

all the coal by the river was used for steel

[tight karma]

I finished my fuel powerplant yesterday, cant imagine starting a 2400mw factory on biofuel burners xD

[mint coral]

I made a balancer for biofuel andI got power priority switches early so I could remotely turn on and off facilities.

My depots are full at my starter factory, perfect that can turn off. Steel on

[tight karma]

yeah but still thats a lot of tiny little biofuell burners xD

actually 2400/30 is only 80 so its not that many

but its stilll a lot of biofuel imo, i usually never go more than a few hundred mw

few hunddred as in, 8 burners was my max this playthrough xD

[mint coral]

i only used 15

ive cleared the game many times everyrun i have to set challenges and rules to make it fun

so i went no coal power sped to fuel and geothermal.

[tight karma]

cool cool, doesnt geothermal kindda suck though cuz it fluctuates much?

[latent shard]

All of this for 80 nobelisk per minutes...

[tight karma]

you like blowing stuff up i see...

[latent shard]

yeah i don"t have crafted the detonator yet xD
have to go to my main base to create one

[meager kettle]

you can just build an equipment workbench and make it anywhere :p

[latent shard]

yeah but i need some materials that there are is a specific place

[tight karma]

yeah or upload a dozen in a dimensional depot

[latent shard]

don't have that yet

[tight karma]

you can unlock them at any tier in the mam right?

i just got them, they're awesome!

[latent shard]

yeah tbh i don"t really focus on the MAM until i really need it

[tight karma]

sounds like you need dimensional depots

[mint coral]

and you always need smart splitters

[tight karma]

and proprity power switches

although smart splitters can negate the need for priority switches to an extent

[latent shard]

i've seen that a signle dimensional depot is like 300MW of power right ?

i barely produce 3GW xD

[meager kettle]

they draw 0 power

[tight karma]

thhey dont consume power

[latent shard]

OH

i have to confuse with the teleporter ?

[tight karma]

dude they're free real estate

literally

[meager kettle]

teleporter is 250mw

[outer vale]

and at the point you get them you would not have to worry about a 250MW draw lol

[meager kettle]

tho it will spike to 1000mw when you actually teleport

no wait

its 1000mw as they power on, then when on its 250mw

[latent shard]

oh shit

[meager kettle]

if your supply of singularity cells run out, it needs to power back up

[tight karma]

tldr: get dimensional depots andd smart splitters

[outer vale]

remember portals are all the way at T9, where your power will very likely be in the hundreds of GW

[tight karma]

why does thhis program always insist on splittin things 50/50 😭

[wind spade]

use a different one then

[wary fable]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/blueprints/index/details/id/5483/name/Tier+5+Belt+Compact+Belt%2FLoad+Balancer%2C+up+to+12+In+%2F+12+Out

Can somebody please explain me loopback in this blueprint?

[wind spade]

some balancers require you to loop back excess due to not possible to split to given number

but honestly balancers are kinda pointless anyway, so I wouldn't bother with them

(e.g. 1 to 5 balancer is actually 1 to 6, but one looped back)

[fervent spire]

so this is 4 diluted fuel blenders outputting to 4 nitro rocket fuel blenders - is there any reason to, or NOT to, connect the other end of this fuel manifold as well and make it a loop?

actually why the heck am I even manifolding it at all

[tight karma]

dont loops solve like everythin in satisfactory fluids?

[fervent spire]

just one pipe from one blender to the next lol

[wind spade]

they help a lot

[tight karma]

okay so, I have a powerplant that makes 150 plastiic and 160 rubber as a byproduct, i occasionally use rubber for crafting but like, its not really used for anythingg at the tiers I'm in, I probably know the answer alreaddy but should i convert this thing to make plastic only and then use the plastic (cuz i was gonna use the plastic anyway, might as well make more of that stuff)

[summer flare]

Because Modeler models how splitters work in the game, they split evenly between the available outputs. If you want a different behaviour, use a priority splitter.

[tight karma]

then why are there seperate little blocks for splitters?

and why doesnt it split 50/50 here

like, it only splits 50/50 whhen one output is going to a storage container and it's confusing cuz like whyy

*in my opinion

[wind spade]

have you tried other planners?

[tight karma]

I have, but satisfactory modeler gives the most freedom in what you can do i think

like other thhan this one weird splitter thing its great

[wind spade]

it gives practically same freedom as other planners tbh

[tight karma]

i mean like, ow you can put stuff together yourself, like the web one (not the one with the blue background, havent used that one much) I havent figured out how to actually place a buildable myself

[summer flare]

Splitters also implicitly overflow if an available output is being rate limited to less what an equal split will give.
Here I'm splitting ore to a container, but the splits aren't equal because I've rate limited the ingot production.

[tight karma]

yeah but you cant rate limit a storage container

[half frigate]

@gaunt tartan so the top one is ofc the default recipe, look at the other two, personally i love the bolted alt recipe because it's an even amount of screws

[summer flare]

Well, you can't do that in the game either.

[mint coral]

well.... thats what balancers are for

[tight karma]

i know but i now need an artificial rate limiter if i want to ggive a production more than a storage container

why doesnt it automagically take what it needs and then send the rest to storage

i mean you could use a smart splitter there but still that'd make the diagram more complicated

[mint coral]

Maybe you two can help me... I dont understand using modler at all. I see on tools or my spreadsheets i need 4.89 machines i read that as 489% production split anyway i wish between machines with a machine cap of 250%

i dont need a modeler to see this. When i tried using it to do a layout i felt like i was just dfoing it twice as i can just place the machines in game and i know the spacing already from interacting with the game so often

[summer flare]

If you want a line to take what it needs and send the rest elsewhere then use the priority splitter which acts like a smart splitter e.g. high priority output (any) to the line, low priority (overflow) to container. Shouldn't make the diagram that much more complicated.

[tight karma]

why can sinks be rate limited in modeler?

cant limit those in-game, right?

[summer flare]

With modeler you can have the Sinks with specific Mk. belt for what the allowable maximum throughput can be - dunno why the dev has done that, need to ask them 🙂

[fervent spire]

the way modeler works gives like infinite freedom but that means you need to be SUPER aware about how the constraints work

[tight karma]

but you can do that ingame with containers too 😭

[fervent spire]

you can "rate limit" a storage container by using a priority splitter - the top node of the output of the priority splitter is default and splits evenly like you would expect, the bottom node is overflow

[drifting narwhal]

Water is broken af, pipe on the right COMPLETELY FULL, while pipe on left remains empty regardless of if a pump is there or not and I made damn sure the pipes were connected

[tight karma]

which is why i wanna be able to constrain the container xD

[fervent spire]

the priority splitter trick I just described does precisely this

[tight karma]

if it gets used at the same rate you supply it the pipe will never fill up

[tight karma]

but i shouldnt need a prio splitter if the sink works without it yk

[fervent spire]

e.g. this is part of my HMF layout, and I can just play with the numbers of machines in the downstream or upstream and tweak it until I minimize the overflow into the container, or get it to the amount I want

but that's kinda the point, you need it to overflow because you want the constraint to be the machines, not the storage container

[tight karma]

yeah okay in that case it wouldnt work to rate limit the container itself

but sometimes typing in a number is just a lot easier

[fervent spire]

personally I don't actually want the ability to limit throughput of specific nodes because you can't do that in game without weirdly complex series of splitters to load balance outputs.

so the overflow with the priority splitter is the better way to do it imo because it actually reflects what you'll be doing in-game

if you only want 40 to go into the storage container, then do the priority splitter stuff and tweak the rest of your factory until it actually only outputs 40 to that container. or do some complex load balancing

[summer flare]

Slightly different case. The Sink is an endpoint. If the Mk. type is less than what you're trying to sink, Modeler will indicate how many will be needed.
Containers have an input and output and depending on how you are using them, will be involved with the production calculations.

[tight karma]

yeah but this is a tool, gimme the ability to use it as a tool, i dont see why people are opposed to the ability to rate limit a container lol

[fervent spire]

like your use case is not something the game itself can easily support....it's a tool to plan for a specific game, if you give it that ability then the rest of your factory will kinda brick itself if you try to follow that layout, or it won't operate as you expect

[tight karma]

yeah but i myself know I'm gonna put a sink with overflow at literally every output ever anyway

[fervent spire]

.....?? then do what I said with priority splitter into a sink instead of a storage container?? because that's exactly what you're gonna be doing in game?

[mint coral]

@fervent spire You are a compitent player, can you educate me
#math-and-meta message

[fervent spire]

limiting a particular output to a specific number is not something you will ever be doing in game without complex load balancing.....that's why I'm so confused by why you want it
what you will be doing in-game with your described use case is exactly using a smart splitter

[wind spade]

limiting output to specific number is super easy, you make a set of machines that make exactly that much

[tight karma]

but it adds unnecesary complexity to a diagram, i like to be able to just easily see shit (and this might just be me cuz I'm like almost legaly blind)

[fervent spire]

well the way he's describing it is that you have a factory outputting 100 and you only want 40 of it to go to a storage container

[wind spade]

not sure which is "one with the blue background", but try https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

[fervent spire]

but like...if you're using the other 60 for further downstream in the factory? just...use an overflow splitter? that's precisely the use case

[wind spade]

just separate it into 60 and rest

[tight karma]

i do that and then it splits it iin half, cuz i want those items used AND stored

[fervent spire]

how is that unnecessary complexity if it's literally what you are doing in the game

[wind spade]

yeah then have separate set of machines that make items for storage and separate set that make it for next step

[fervent spire]

because by default, when you drag a node into multiple outputs, it acts like a default splitter. which evenly divides it.

if you need it to not do that, then use a smart splitter.

[meager kettle]

Athena is 100% correct. just feed your machines and do an overflow splitter before em

[tight karma]

that makes the diagram more.... yk nevermind

[wind spade]

if storage wants 20 and machines 35, clock machines to make 20 and hook them to storage, then clock remaining machines to make 35 and hook that to factories

[fervent spire]

I think what you actually want is the ability to directly configure the output node of a block to act as a smart splitter instead of a normal splitter. and then drag two different "types" of lines from the same node - one for normal, one for overflow

[tight karma]

people i know how the game works i just want to ✨ simplify✨

[wind spade]

it doesn't get simpler than "make it separate" lol

[fervent spire]

that is more complexity in how to use the software and I don't think that's worth it when the normal use case is WAY more common than the smart splitter use case

[meager kettle]

its very simple, you kinda wanna complicate it

[tight karma]

that sounds like a ui nightmare so not really

[fervent spire]

.....exactly. so then how else would you remove the smart splitter block and still get smart splitter functionality?? that's what's confusing me so much about what you want here

no matter how you slice it, if you want a wire on the graph to act in a way that doesn't just evenly divide things, you need SOME extra UI or complexity to the nodes

[tight karma]

I ddont need smart splitter functionality i want to rate limit a container

like i get that it doesnt work in game like that

and i get that a container isnt infinitely big

[meager kettle]

it kinda does tho

[wind spade]

in Tools you can just say "I want to produce X" and not deal with this stuff 🙂

[meager kettle]

and if for w/e reason you want, you can use splitters and mergers to divvy up any belt in any number

[summer flare]

I think I know what you saying. Modeler isn't a layout tool, the dev has previously posted to say that it wasn't designed to do that. It's just that some users will use it for that.

[mint coral]

but tools you just say i got X i want Y tell me and its done. So I dont get why modeler is a thing.

[fervent spire]

to answer this, the use case for which I use modeler relates a lot to my playstyle and it's why tools doesn't really cut it for me with the way I like to play and plan things.
tools is really nice for seeing like, the general shape of a recipe. but I still want to plan out my factory to do mutliple things, potentially
take my HMF factory for example. I also wanted a bunch of the intermediate materials to be produced in excess so I could send them to the dimensional depot. so I can set up the chain in modeler with the splitter->overflow setup and then just play with the machine numbers until all the outputs look like what I want them to be.

I know technically you can accomplish a lot of the same with tools. but for me I prefer to play around with the machine numbers myself to keep them round if possible, and also looking at input resource numbers. and tools also kinda gives up with this many constraints (understanably so, I don't expect it to lol). plus, sometimes I don't KNOW what kinds of intermediate byproducts I might actually want to make extra of, etc. and this method lets me plan out bigger projects really nicely

[mint coral]

okay, i kinda understand. I just need some raw numbers and i can figure that out in my head. so i can understand if you are unable to do that

[fervent spire]

this works for individual items (even if they're more complex items). it doesn't work when you want to use [some set of resources] to make multiple items in a factory, or make extra intermediate items, etc.

[fervent spire]

.....I can give you the 960 coal 1440 copper and a bunch of limestone and you can pull out that HMF line in your head?? like more power to you if you can, but like, modeler is fantastic for putting together large factory plans with multiple products when you may or may not know exactly how many resources you want to use

like I have a TON more resources than what is required for this HMF factory being routed into the plains, but I don't necessarily want to use it all just right now. so I'm working both backwards (from how much HMF+intermediate product I want to create) and forwards (how little of my available resource can I get away with using) at the same time

[meager kettle]

i just math it out myself. i have x amount of resources. what do i need, how much can i make with what i have

[fervent spire]

I'm NOT just trying to solve for how many [x] can I make out of resource [y]

[mint coral]

i get what your saying thank you

[meager kettle]

takes me like a minute to do it

then just write it down in steam notes so i dont forget

[mint coral]

when i tap a node i generally make all the lets iron into iron ingots and overflow it into sinks label it then tak what i need tfor the project.

[fervent spire]

this is literally what modeler does, like, what? it's just doing it visually instead of in a notepad

[meager kettle]

math is same yes, i just prefer to do it myself

[fervent spire]

we are doing the same process you're just writing it down and using a calculator instead of dragging items in modeler

[meager kettle]

and i dont need to finagle some ui or anything to do it

[mint coral]

Ya, if it gets complex or if im tired i have a note pad and a spreadsheet and you can do math in the ingame codex on the recipe itself

[wind spade]

I'd underclock the node 🙂

[mint coral]

valid option i do too

[meager kettle]

like i do most math in my head, sometimes calculator helps if theres fractions

[mint coral]

@fervent spire Im not attacking modeler users or tool users. When things get complex i use tools to connfirm my numbers

I am asking questions because i dont like being ignorant

I'm glad all these tools make the game more accessible. honestly if school was this fun we would have more of the population with higher critical thinking

[wary fable]

4 lanes to 10? 1 to 10?

[wind spade]

wdym?

[wary fable]

I have 4 lanes I need to split equally to 10, same I need to split 1 to 10

[wind spade]

why do you need to split it equally?

[wary fable]

Because I have refineries for caterium crude coal and caterium

[wind spade]

manifold works as well in those cases

[mint coral]

manifold the first line until you it cant feed the next machine then merge in the second line and repeat

[wary fable]

I am using SFS

[wind spade]

or have each row of machines use exact amount you have on belt/pipe

[mint coral]

that works too

[wary fable]

And I don't get 825

[mint coral]

many options ^_^

[wary fable]

Only 401+411

[wind spade]

balancer being the most convoluted and complex

[meager kettle]

any x:y balancer work the same, just the scale gets out of hand

[wary fable]

I'm running SFS 10x4

[wind spade]

so have two groups of machines, one using 401 and one using 411

[meager kettle]

split each x into y amount, then merge all the xy into y

[wary fable]

Outputting*

[wind spade]

or that

[wary fable]

Even though I have 4 inputs of same

[wind spade]

if you have 4 inputs, hook it to 4 rows of equal machines

no reason to balance

[worthy willow]

Manifold my beloved

[wary fable]

I am using SFS

They scale vertically

[wind spade]

you keep using the "SFS" which I don't think I've heard before

but I don't think anything would change my recommendation

[worthy willow]

Yeah what is sfs

[meager kettle]

satisfactory... seggs?

[wary fable]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1ne0z8f/embrace_verticality_stackframe_series_sfs_release/

[wind spade]

ah, so you're building someone else's factory, not your own

though as I look at it, it's still the same advice - clock machines based on what you want to make or what you have on belts. No reason to balance

[candid fossil]

why is ther an input belt on alien poer augmentors? ]

[mint coral]

This doesn't change the fact you can adjust machine clocks.

[mint coral]

T9 use.

[candid fossil]

ok ty

[mint coral]

Np. Complex to make the item for it but it ||changes the power boost to 30% for a short time ||

[candid fossil]

is it common to see people making those?

[wary fable]

Then why am I getting from 5 rows below 380 and from 5 rows above 420 given that I LB 4 inputs of 780

[mint coral]

I wouldn't say its uncommon. Although its completely optional

[candid fossil]

alrighty danke

[wind spade]

no idea, but a simple manifold would already work at 100% by now, instead of you toying with balancers

[wary fable]

I am ex factorio player

And I can't divide 10/4 as whole belt

That's why I use balancers

[wind spade]

you don't need to

[wary fable]

I saw Doc's video but then why do I get different outputs?

[wind spade]

check how much you have on belt (e.g. 250/min)
calculate how many machines can that belt feed (e.g 4.8 machines)
build that many machines (use clocking to handle fractions)
manifold them

[wary fable]

Okay probably tomorrow I will re-work

[wind spade]

Factorio plays very differently than SF, get used to it instead of trying to play the Factorio way 🙂

[gaunt tartan]

So fucking real

Modeler legit feels pointless like tools gives me the info I need and then I'll lay it out how ever it works out in game or best for me

It just feels like so much more work

[gaunt tartan]

Both games play very differently than each other and I love it

[gaunt tartan]

Also question would there be anyway too make tools sync between platforms or would it be like alot of work too setup and stuff cuz I hate not having my stuff from PC on my phone

[wind spade]

can share via link or file

[gaunt tartan]

Yeah but I'm not home

And have no way of accessing it from my phone

It's not that annoying just something I wish was real tho I assume is way more work than it worth

[wind spade]

well, you would share it before you go away 🙂

[tight karma]

Today i made the mistake of building a single layer logistics layer

I guess this is the price i have to pay for being pedantic about intersecting belts xD

(red is copper and yellow is caterium)

[compact otter]

(this looks like factorio)

[tight karma]

I always use the argument for having chosen satisfactory over Factorio that Factorio is too flat.... yet when my factories get complicated they tend to become single floor factories xD

[vapid gorge]

If only you had a 3rd dimension to work in.
Well, we can dream one day

[tight karma]

Tier 10?????

[wind spade]

What?

[tight karma]

Tier 10?????

[wind spade]

What with it

[frosty owl]

If only we could actually see the beltwork below the thick colored lines... XD

[golden ridge]

about a million alternate recipe combinations later ive finally been able to make 4 uranium fuel rods out of 2 piles of dirt and a box of raspberries

[full ermine]

<@&387163995947270144>

circumcize him

[ionic sapphire]

isnt that the same user as last time

[full ermine]

yep

[ionic sapphire]

are they not banning him

thats really just on them at that point

[full ermine]

@compact vine this guy

[full ermine]

idk

the automod prolly deletes the message before they see it

[wind lion]

Using mk2 miners for 4 normal nodes, should be baalnced right? (mk3 belts)

Now i need to decorate this

[mint coral]

im struggling with decorating at. i got so much of it to do. But i wana just move on lopl

[wind lion]

Im not gonna do it now, im im still in early stage, so im still working on improving factories, so everything would be used

[wind spade]

you can also do 3 extractors to 8 gens

[wind lion]

Yes ik

[blazing sleet]

If the refinery is using 3m^3 crude oil at 30 per minute, is that 30^3 per minute or 90^3 per minute?

[wind spade]

that's 30 per minute or 3 per craft

[blazing sleet]

I cant tell if its saying is using 30 of the 3m^3 or if 30 is the total

[blazing sleet]

So it would be 30m^3 per minute?

[wind spade]

yeah, as I said, 30 per minute

[blazing sleet]

Ok thanks. The lack of the ^3 is a bit confusing in game.

[wind spade]

that's just the unit, we usually omit it here

[tight karma]

If I remember I'll make a save copy and take everything off the top and send a ss.

[tight karma]

A third dimension to build in

[wind spade]

Satisfactory has that

[tight karma]

Naaaahw, surely not

[wind spade]

you know what the D in 3D means? 🙂

[meager kettle]

derangements

[obtuse hawk]

So, I’m building my first oil refineries, for plastic and rubber. With liquids like oil is it generally better to perfectly match the input and output, or should I just try to make sure the pipes are full so the refineries always get what they need? An extractor produces 120 oil per minute, and the rubber and plastic each need 40 oil per minute. Should I just attach 1 extractor to 3 refineries and call it good, or add a second extractor to make sure everything works correctly?

[tight karma]

Exactly

[fervent spire]

pipes being full and flow rate are two different things, btw.
you DO want to make sure the pipes are full. but this just means they are actually full, as in completely full of fluid, even if they are not flowing at the max rated capacity of the pipe (300 or 600). to do that, just hook up all the pipes and let the pipe fill before turning on the refineries.
you do NOT need to make the pipes flow at maximum flow capacity - they can flow below 300 or 600
100% make sure the pipe is full though, this prevents issues with sloshing because the game simulates them as actual fluids, having the pipe full will avoid a lot of issues

[wind spade]

matching exactly is always the way to go. No reason to make more than you need

[obtuse hawk]

this is great advice. Thank you

[fervent spire]

also worth noting that now that you're getting machines with multiple outputs, if any output is backed up the entire machine stalls. so you do generally want to be using as much fluid as you are consuming and never letting anything back up. start sinking overflow outputs if you haven't already

[obtuse hawk]

yeah, I had asked about that a few days ago. You need rubber and plastic to unlock fuel power and packaging, so the only way to sink byproducts before that point is to produce coke.

[mint coral]

i found platic and rubber exploring so i used that to unlock fuel

[ionic sapphire]

say i have 1 machine making 100 water pm and another machine consuming 100 water pm directly connected on a flat surface over a short distance, will the pipe show 100 water pm flow ?

[outer vale]

unlikely, since production isn't continuous

[ionic sapphire]

lets say the recipe produces water in small quantities, but rapidly

[mint coral]

yes... most of the time.

the pipe shows the average.

But machines gulp fluids and spit fluids. its not a steady stream

[ionic sapphire]

and i heard a buffer does not improve anything ?

[mint coral]

usually causes issues

[ionic sapphire]

if 10 machines finish their recipe at the same time, and cant output all the fluid, they would naturally become offset it guess

[mint coral]

something like that.

fluids are confusing because we can not see what is happening. we can only infer whats happening from behavior

[ionic sapphire]

peak game design

[frosty owl]

The "offset" could probably just be absorbed by the machines' inventories unloading as they have a chance (ie: none would go idle)

[ionic sapphire]

if pipe capacity is big enough

unless you mean the output buffer of the machine

both could have problems

[frosty owl]

Unless slooped, machines output less than half a "stack" of fluid, so they have a full production cycle of time (or more) to unload it without pausing

[mint coral]

i just built a fuel power facility

4 lines fed four banks of fuel generators.

all of them are pretty much identical. 3 of 4 ran perfect.

the fourth i had to dismantal all the pipes and rebuild (the same way) to get it working

not sure what happened but it works now

[trail osprey]

anyone know how I can configure splitters to send 3/7ths and 4/7ths, respectably, to separate manufactures?

[wind spade]

no, but you can just place one splitter and it will self-balance over time

or make the 3/7ths and 4/7ths separate from start

[trail osprey]

🥀

I hate doing that

unfortunate

[wind spade]

then have it separate 🙂

also super easy

[trail osprey]

true I should just seperate it

[wind spade]

(another option would be to put splitters and mergers in such a configuration that it would split in those ratios, but that's usually annoying and I wouldn't recommend it)

[trail osprey]

thanks

[cedar folio]

Split it into 8, merge 3 and 4 together and loop the 8th back.

[wary fable]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=13zpEuP8TdR4ewZXVv9L

I am trying to build this, but am stuck on this loop part, also I have only Mk5 belts, like to divide by 2? then given input fuel just to put pipeline junction and place split on A, C and make inner loops between A and B, C and D?

don't mind fuel generators I used them to sink fuel to test Polymer Resin generation (358pm)

[meager kettle]

recycle recipes uses fuel to double production

[wind spade]

you don't need to put it all on one belt anyway

[meager kettle]

1 rubber + 1 fuel = 2 plastic + 2 fuel = 4 rubber + 4 fuel = 8 plastic etc

[wary fable]

Yes, let's say I split in 2 pairs of 8.X recycled rubber + 9.5X recycled plastic and use Mk5 belt how does this loop even work? Would I need to place smart splitter with overflow? how would I extract exactly 253.75 plastic) for plastic ai limiter?

70 plastic is easy to be extracted (Mk1 + Mk1 / 3 / 2)

[wind spade]

how would I extract exactly 253.75 plastic
by making a group of machines that produce that much

[wary fable]

Yes but it's closed loop

[wind spade]

and?

[wary fable]

that's what bugs me

[wind spade]

it's not closed loop if it needs inputs and has extra output

[meager kettle]

it can't be a closed loop

you're making more than you put in

[wind spade]

(and doesn't even need to be built as a closed loop, it can be built as a chain)

[meager kettle]

the excess gotta go

[wary fable]

Let's for ease divide by 2 everything since I am stuck in Mk5 belts, how would I group recycled rubber refineries and recycled plastic refineries?