math-and-meta

[wind spade]

it may round differently when you input formulas, as that has been know to arbitrarily round during the calculations, which makes it even worse than typing the value. Basically you always want to input clock speed directly (if you care for precision of that degree)

[tacit carbon]

It shouldn’t be a problem but I’ll prob change it for one or two factory’s

Okay

[tacit carbon]

Can’t be bothered to search for the formulas in tools => everything is just base formula

[wind spade]

wdym

[tacit carbon]

I’m just too lazy to add my formulas into the calculator

Leading to me not using most of them

[vapid gorge]

not sure what you mean my formulas, you just make a plan

[vapid gorge]

like this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=f6l4gFduS06nJdcgQYpK

[tacit carbon]

I think that’s a translation error on my part, I mean alternative recipes

[vapid gorge]

ah well if you look at the recipes section you can just check and then uncheck recipes to see the difference

[tacit carbon]

Ah Yhyh, that’s also what I meant when I talked about tools

[vapid gorge]

in the example I just linked to you I made a plan for HMF that reduced the iron need by 75% and coal/limestone by 50%

[tacit carbon]

I’m probably reeaalllyy inefficient if we’re talking about recipes, but because I never seem to get any of the recipes I’d actually need I just started to ignore them entirely because I just got too frustrated

[vapid gorge]

all the recipes are useful - you just have to use them in the places where they work well

look at the recipes I've checked off in the linked plan

[tacit carbon]

Are those the ones you would recommend in general?

[wind spade]

any really

[tacit carbon]

Most of them feel like they make it more complicated tho?

Like. The output doesn’t represent what I put in it

[wind spade]

usually it's "you save resources by making things more complicated", or "you spend more resources but have thing simpler"

[tacit carbon]

Ah yeah

[wind spade]

as always, it's a tradeoff, you have to choose which way you want to go

[vapid gorge]

depends on your situation and what you're making - those are often the recipes I use for HMF as it doesn't change what kind of resources and just reduces the amount you need

[tacit carbon]

I feel like I bruteforced the game after I read through some of the stuff here
I’m halfway through the last stage without using HD for anything else than increased inventory space

[tacit carbon]

Ah yh, that’s what I’d also opt for

[wind spade]

all the recipes are optional, you can play the game without any alt recipe

[wary fable]

Hey, I heard it's most efficient to build caterium computers but I run into huge need for oil. I am in Dunes and have 2 caterium nodes and am thinking for something like https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_ComputerSuper_C"%3A"10"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_SuperStateComputer_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CircuitBoard_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Computer_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Plastic_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_RecycledRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HighSpeedConnector_C"]}. (It's my first playthrough and I want to build computer, ai limiter, etc mall)

[vapid gorge]

most efficient needs definitions on what you want to be more efficient.

which resources do you want to use less of?

[wary fable]

is 10 super computers reasonable target at tier 4?

which resources do you want to use less of? Oil

[vapid gorge]

I don't think you can make super computers at tier 4?

[wary fable]

and utilize one caterium ore because I am not the only player on the server?

Phase 4, sorry

[vapid gorge]

I mean theres this recipe path thats only caterium and oil?

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=taSXyQJXetq52g3tN2LS

[wary fable]

that's lots of caterium and oil https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_ComputerSuper_C"%3A"10"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_CircuitBoard_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Wire_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Cable_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_AILimiter_Plastic_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Plastic_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_RecycledRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CateriumIngot_Tempered_C"]}

[wind spade]

generally I wouldn't recommend using SCIM, as it can't do loops or byproducts

[wary fable]

I mean i could overclock mk3 miners and use both nodes, but it would be egoistical

also I don't have much oil in dunes

[vapid gorge]

why would overclockign be 'egotistical'?

[wary fable]

Because I'm playing on dedicated server and hogging both cateriums would be egoistical

[vapid gorge]

super computers are chonky

and there's lots of caterium on the map

[meager kettle]

you're working together to same goal tho

its not a pvp game, its coop :)

[wary fable]

Yes but still gotta leave people room to play, so much I learn in whole dunes. Also, what about oil? Where around dunes would I find so much or just import from other parts of map via trains?

[meager kettle]

some oil sw towards titan forest, and west in the spire coast

[vapid gorge]

you have access to the online map if you really want https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

a huge part of the game is planning locations for factories

[vapid gorge]

could do this ? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=csfFJ66b5L22FhpchYRL

[wary fable]

some oil sw towards titan forest, and west in the spire coast
Used both rn, at normal recipes make low yield products

I am seeking to upgrade my current makeshift 5/m and AI Limiters and make one big mall with all computer related

[vapid gorge]

I mean sure but yo ucan always change location if you want to use different resources, like the last link I shared

[wary fable]

looks clean, just a question could I save some caterium by using refineries and building production on water?

[vapid gorge]

tempered and pure has the same output

and tempered uses very little oil and very few refineries comparatively

[wary fable]

Cool, so essentially I can build a super computer factory in dunes by one importing petroleum coke, plastic, rubber and quartz, right?

[meager kettle]

coke?

[wary fable]

petroleum coke

[meager kettle]

you gonna use the coke recipe for circuit boards?

[wary fable]

for tempered caterium

[meager kettle]

theres a fair big lake near the caterium, could do pure caterium

[wary fable]

problem is that I have temporary makeshift factory in there

I want to build a new one which will depot/drone/train computers, super computers, ai limiters, hsc and demolish bunch of mini-factories which I built in the beginning of the game

[meager kettle]

theres i a fair bit of quartz in the north, you can do quartz computers

[wary fable]

recipe Cobalt shared uses quartz

[latent shard]

how many item for 1000 coupons/tickets ? i want to buy the golden nuts

[mint coral]

a lot. most ppl dont get it until long after credits roll

[latent shard]

oh

[mint coral]

one phase 5 part is worth almost 3mil points

[meager kettle]

depends on the items, they all have various worths, and the curve of cost per ticket goes up exponentially

[latent shard]

interesting

[deft cape]

500.753.253.000 points

[latent shard]

HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT ??

[mint coral]

if you want to get a headstart. after getting steel find sam nodes and upgrade the same to fluctuators. they are worth somewhere near 1500 each. and youll use them later.

uranium is only worth 30 each but at 300/min it adds up.

the more complext the part the more points

[deft cape]

i used the wiki to do the math lol

[deft cape]

also, its 500B if you use every single one of it on your golden nut

[meager kettle]

not sure what wiki you looked at, but its a lot more than 50 mil for 1000 tickets

[deft cape]

i did the maths wrong, just fixed

[meager kettle]

👍

500B not M :p

[deft cape]

lol

also, if any1 want to do the math, this is the formula: 500n3 + 750n2 + 3250n + 3000

[wind crown]

1000B if you take detours to buy other pretty things

[wind lion]

Whats the best way to make it actually work well? I tried doing two pipes on one end and one on other. Now this, not sure hwo i should do it

[oblique hollow]

This is one of tbe correct ways

As for pipeline pumps, dont put them up too high

Water extractors are incapable of pushing water above themselves

[wind lion]

I try on lowest available point

[meager kettle]

they all green, looks like it working?

might just need a hot minute to fill and even out

[wind lion]

Three in middle were not, so i removed one on sided and put it in middle

Seems like all filling not to bad now

[oblique hollow]

Can take a long time to fill

[wind lion]

Gocha, thanks a lot

[mint coral]

i go simpler I go 2 coal generators to one water extractor that is underclocked.

simple split no manifolds. On that lake you have so much room too

[crimson moat]

if you are doing UC i prefer 1 extractor to 3 gens at 88.888

it turns it from 8 gens = 120, to 9 gens = 120

[mint coral]

again avoiding manifolds.

I know how to do this all ive seen credits 7 times. just my current preference

[crimson moat]

I didn't say anything about manifolding

[meager kettle]

theres tons of ways to do, no way is really better or worse than the others

[crimson moat]

there are plenty of objectively bad ways to move liquids in this game 😄

[meager kettle]

sure, but having 2, 3 or 4 extractors doesnt matter

its still same amount of water in same amount of pipe

[crimson moat]

If there is sloshing though, you get less water through each pipe and that can limit your builds in unpredictable ways

even splits (like 120 to 40+40+40 on one junction) don't slosh at all, whereas manifolds do - and although it's fine in this particular circumstance with most manifold designs due to mk.1 pipe and lower flow rates, down the line that will burn you.

[meager kettle]

if theres sloshing you done it wrong

[fervent spire]

I am doing something similar to this in my turbofuel plant. but it is 360/min of fuel going in, so 160 in on one end and 200 in the other end.
pretty sure this should work, but my question is do I need to do a loop on the inputs to the refineries here? or is that not necessary?

[mint coral]

I guess it depends on what a manifold is. I think once you start feeding from more then 2 machines it maaybe a manifold

[crimson moat]

No, there are just mistakes in the fluid sim so certain systems like manifolds always slosh

[meager kettle]

naw

if they slosh you done em wrong

usually by placing junctions on pipes directly

[crimson moat]

A bunch of people have spent a bunch of time proving this to each other and the devs, digging into decompiled code and dozens of different test scenarios to explain exactly what and where the mistakes are, and they're being addressed in 1.2 as far as we know. Hundreds of hours of study has gone into this.

[meager kettle]

we dont actually know what 1.2 will bring aside fluid trucks which could just be a middle finger to people having issues :)

[mint coral]

new ways to play is coming whatever that means lol

[fervent spire]

oh wait, if I'm feeding the fuel from both ends I think that inherently avoids the issue that needs a loop to solve, with pipeline manifolds, right?

[meager kettle]

which would be asbolutely hilarious

[meager kettle]

yea, one pipe feeding 4 from end each end, meet in middle

[crimson moat]

No, the issue is when there is an uneven split. Too much liquid goes to the side which needs less (the machine connected to the manifold) and then bounces back out, and while fluid is flowing from side to forward it can't flow from back to forward because of flow rate limitations

[mint coral]

my favorite dev F u ever was during ff11 online the entire community hated a raid and it took forever to do.

after months of complaining the Dev team made it to hard and said ... im paraphrasing as the team is japanese but "You are doing it wrong" and made it harder

[fervent spire]

oh, would that still be a problem when I have different amounts going into either side of the line then?

[crimson moat]

yeah, it's only not a problem if you have equal amounts of fluid going out of each junction pipe.

If there's flowrate headroom then it expends that to self balance, but it wastes flow rate in that process. If there isn't enough spare flow rate, it cannot do it.

[meager kettle]

ideally do a even split, split one extractor to each side, getting 2 pipes of 180

[fervent spire]

this 360 fuel I'm producing that doesn't divide evenly for the turbofuel refineries is really messing with me and I'm kinda considering just going to mk2 pipelines to make it not a problem....

[crimson moat]

clock them

[meager kettle]

well fuel works same as water

[crimson moat]

that's a case where it sloshes but there's enough flowrate headroom (180/300) to self correct

and the sloshing is much worse at higher flow rates due to square scaling on the phantom energy generation, so you won't see it as bad with a 300 pipe and 180 flow, but it's still there a little.

[mint coral]

@fervent spire this is why I was saying earlier I try to consider Max flow rate as a theoretical where possible earlier

[crimson moat]

some designs can do max, but many can't yeah, it is not a guarantee (especially on mk.2 due to that square scaling with flowrate) unless you are highly knowledgeable and building very precisely with some stuff that takes extra parts and time to do.

[meager kettle]

extra part being a pump :p

[fervent spire]

ok so....my plan is to do this, right
so I clock the 8 crude refineries to produce 2 pipes of 180 fuel

[crimson moat]

If a pump could fix it we wouldn't have spent the last year arguing and testing it. You can't attach a pump or a valve to a junction directly, so sloshing happens through the junction in the pipe that sticks out of it (before the pump/s).

[fervent spire]

and then I can put one on each end into the 16 turbofuel refineries as such?

[meager kettle]

a pump (or two) fixes pretty muich every 600/min manifold i've done. its just most peopel still follow the pipeguide from update 6 and still think pump = headlift only, when they actually do more, and its super easy to test and verify

[crimson moat]

I can send you one of the test saves if you like

[meager kettle]

sure

[crimson moat]

i would be impressed if you can fix it with 1 pump

or even 2

[crimson moat]

the refineries outputting turbofuel?

[fervent spire]

yes

so a 180 pipe of fuel into each end of these 16 refineries making turbofuel

[crimson moat]

sure will prob work, especially if you use mk1 pipes on the 180 fuel pipes and for the pipes going into the refineries

just not good practice for pushing flowrate limits

[fervent spire]

yeah everything is mk1

why's it not good practice? would it be done differently with mk2 pipes and just send 1 360 pipe into the turbofuel refineries?

[meager kettle]

prob need an hour or so more, but i think i fixed it. the gens not getting fuel are now getting fuel

rebuild the turbo fuel manifold, you're outputting 750 into a 600 pipe so the flow kinda sucked, i downclocked em to make exaktly 600. made a foundation gap where the fuel stopped. then added a pump every 20 fuel gens

its now slowly filling up past previous stop

gonna let it run for a bit more

[crimson moat]

I'd be surprised if it ran at full power continuously, but that's still a lot more than 1 or 2 pumps.

[meager kettle]

well its a silly manifold of one line of 80

[crimson moat]

valves and pumps are known to mitigate this problem, but as far as i know not fix it completely.

[meager kettle]

i would've done 2x40

[crimson moat]

It's a test case to show off the problem, 600/600 into the end of a liquid manifold with the lowest consumption recipe at 100% for the biggest reasonable imbalanced split on each junction

If you have half as much fuel in the pipe like 300/600 and half as many gens then yes it works fine, but it works because it's using say 400/600 flow despite only moving 300 units of turbofuel from A to B. That's an unclear and poorly predictable inefficiency.

[meager kettle]

i would also have overclocked the gens some to go down to 2x20 :p

well i am now getting fuel to 4th last one

so a couple more mins and we'll see

in my rocket fuel plant my manifolds are 600 pipes into 60 fuel gens split 2x30. i put a pump at start and one in the middle (after 15th pair) and that solved the problems i had with that manifold

its still slowly filling up

[crimson moat]

yes but rocket fuel is a gas, so it has fewer and less severe problems

gas behaves kinda how liquid should behave when the system is completely flat. But in currently liquids have phantom energy added to them via "dynamic pressure" and it makes them bounce/oscillate way more than they should

verticality and gravity complicate liquid some more, but that's not the thing causing the undesirable behavior in most cases. That part actually seems to work very well.

[meager kettle]

yea not had issues lifting fluids, the flat in flat out pump principle i use works super well

[crimson moat]

Regular powered pumps helps a lot more with a lot more things than i used to realise

they even fix gas buffering 😄 #math-and-meta message

[meager kettle]

yea i use pump on the rocket fuel and works great honestly

19.500mw now, the rate the last ones fill is agonizingly slow lol

just need last 3 to fill now

its getting there

do i win a prize for solving this? :p

oh you're here

and last one is filling, calling it solved

30 mins, didnt quite take the hour

pumps man :p

yea, used more than 2, cause i didnt expect this long manifold, but one every 20 worked ok

clocked refiners back to 750, doesnt seem to make a diffrence

so theres no hindrance from overproduction

could try one every 30 i spsoe, but can't be arsed :p

[crimson moat]

if in doubt put powered pumps after every junction 😄

[meager kettle]

well thats might be a little much :p

[jovial crypt]

fellas should i double the Coal budget again or stop being lazy and actually make a packaged diluted fuel setup

[meager kettle]

stop being lazy :p

[mint coral]

go fuel. It is time.

that coal is for mk6 belt production

[jovial crypt]

welp diluted packaged fuel it is.......

so in that case, how should i split up the Heavy Oil required then in terms of how much Rubber and Plastic should get made to make that heavy oil

[mint coral]

doy you have the HOR alternative?

[jovial crypt]

the... what?

[meager kettle]

you scan harddrives for the heavy oil residue alt :p

[mint coral]

heavy oil residue recipe

[jovial crypt]

nope not the heavy oil specific one

[wind spade]

split it in the way you need. We can't know that

[mint coral]

@elder fox interesting mod suggestions so far

[magic fulcrum]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg do i have to wait for every coal factory to fill up with water before it sustains 600 mw? (the first one)

[vapid gorge]

imo you should make seperate factories for each.

after the first oil process step split the HOR to different sections with a different final outputs. It's easier to manage that way

as for how much of each... thats up to how much you need for your projects

[celest mantle]

yea you will

but since any amount less than that will result in an excess of water it'll be inevitable as long as everything's hooked up properly

and anyone telling you the fluid mechanics are broken even in those layouts are merely suffering from a case of skill issue

[fervent spire]

this is correct for using heavy oil residue once I get the recycled rubber and plastic recipes right?

[ripe mango]

For an initial fuel gen setup before blenders, is it best to go for direct fuel production? Or residual fuel production? Seems like direct fuel gives double the pure fuel, but less than half the byproduct which I think is fine because I have a temporary plastic/rubber factory.

[vapid gorge]

you generally want diluted fuel for the recycle loop https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=UACHKOo2zWh0YcMvFWqp

[vapid gorge]

depends on which output you want
honestly I just stick to coal until blenders

64 coal gens will often see you through

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1437572960004083722/1437573943774150738/image.png?ex=69a0cd11&is=699f7b91&hm=1f388b7e2b4abdef99fc1f6d85febd3b6437f1e4f45bcc7527733d25acf28499&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=550&height=299

[fervent spire]

I went straight for turbofuel and now I'm starting my plastic production lol. have one line with 300 turbofuel powering 40 generators and I think I'll be set for a very long time with that

[ripe mango]

I've already got 48 coal and am hitting limits. I built some pretty decent early game factories. I haven't OC'd any of the coal though - so could potentially get some gains there and skip early fuel.

[fervent spire]

I think there's enough ways to process the byproducts (or even just sink them) that it's fine to keep the fuel->power production line entirely separate from the plastics line

whicih was my thinking for just making an entire line dedicated to only turbofuel

[ripe mango]

That's what I was thinking.

[vapid gorge]

OCing miners is usually very useful

[fervent spire]

what I just finished doing this evening is

• 300 turbofuel -> 40 generators. produces 270 polymer resin as byproduct. uses 540/min crude and 240/min coal + sulfur. OC'd 2 normal oil wells for it.
• 400 plastic (20 refineries). gonna use 320 of them for computers. produces 160 heavy oil residue as byproduct, currently just converting it to petroleum coke and sinking it. uses 600 crude, one OC'd pure well
• using 160 of the polymer resin from the turbofuel to make 80 rubber.
  so in the end after I finish the computer line I'll have 80 rubber, 80 plastic, and 10 computers going into storage

once I get the recycled plastic/rubber recipes I might rework this or just set up another plastic/rubber plant at another location

[ripe mango]

I know, just dealing with more water is painful 😛 Already have 6 mostly saturated Mk. 2 lines.

[vapid gorge]

fuel generators have even more pipes than coal gens

[keen thorn]

question : if i need 1.9 constructor (using satisfactory calculator)
is it much better to make 2 and slightly underclock both, or make 1 and overclock it?

[vapid gorge]

makes essentially no difference other than the shards you use

[meager kettle]

makes no diffrence either way

[keen thorn]

underclocking would heavily reduce power cost tho, right?

compared to overclocking

[meager kettle]

setting two to 95%? you're saving a fraction of a mw

[keen thorn]

compared to setting 1 to 190%

[meager kettle]

2x95 is 7.4mw, 1x190 is 9.3 you save about 2mw

[vapid gorge]

barely any difference in power consumption

[meager kettle]

constructors only use 4mw as base

[vapid gorge]

take any factory with an end product

were you to OC every single machine in that system to 250% it would only take 34% more power overall

[keen thorn]

uh ... ?? how. it's a 235% increase.

[vapid gorge]

because you also divide the number of machiens you use by 2.5

[keen thorn]

that's still 94

[vapid gorge]

go clock a smelter or something to 250% and tell me how much power it uses

[keen thorn]

13.4mw, increased from 4mw

that's 235% increase

[vapid gorge]

13.4/4= 3.35

3.35/2.5=1.34

[keen thorn]

that's ... not how you calculate that lol

[outer vale]

which part? looks sensible to me

[vapid gorge]

ok 13.4/10 = 1.34

10 being 2.5 smelters at 4mw

[outer vale]

overclocking does use a lot more power than a non-clocked machine, but it also means you need fewer machines

[vapid gorge]

compare 1x 13.4 to 2.5 machines at 10mw total

hence

13.4 / 10 = 1.34

if you like that method better

and power is so easy and plentiful in this game that +34% is really not very much

and that's assuming every single machine in a factory is at 250%

[meager kettle]

take 100 constructors at 100%, uses 400 mw. clock em up to 250% you only need 40, but they use 13.4mw for 536mw. 536/400 = 1.34 = 34% more power used to reduce machine count from 100 to 40.

it goes for pretty much all machines with ever so slight variance, some will be 33, some 35, prob rounding error in the interface

exception is extractors/miners/etc which make raw materials, then you use more power to get more items

you could take a factory at 100%, clock everything up to 250%, not reduce machine count, then yes you'll use 335% power but you also make 250% items

[unique venture]

wth is a golden nut ?

[vapid gorge]

nut that is golden

[unique venture]

indeed

[fervent spire]

Am I doing the train math right here?
Mk4 belts, transporting ore (stacks to 200).
(32*200)/480 = 13.33m to fill one car.
So as long as the round trip time is less than 13.33m then I'd be producing a consistent 480/min out at the destination right? Because throughput is effectively capped at the belt output rate at the end

And if RTT is less than 6.66m then I can double belt into the freight station and get 960/min throughput? (Assuming I'm mining that much ofc)

And if RTT is more than 6.6m but less than 13.3m I can still achieve 960/m throughput by using 2 cars?

[mint coral]

i uh.... dont think this much about it. I fill a buffer on both ends. if i consistantly have stuff in the buffer its good if not i add a train

but i follow and i think you are correct

[fervent spire]

Can you specify certain cars to fill at different stations?

[ionic sapphire]

theres empty stations, i think thats what those are for

"empty platform"

[mint coral]

no you gotta plan it all out you can just say unload haldf here and half there. if a freight plateform is set to unload it just unloads and freight car that docks with it

[fervent spire]

Ok so for a 4 car train, I build 4 freight platforms at every station and then delete the ones I don't want to load/unload at each station?

[meager kettle]

kind of, if you block the cars you dont wanan load/unlock with locomotives

[mint coral]

or use the emtpy plateforms or just set them to the opposite you want. if a freight car stattion is set to load and there is nothing to load it will do nothing

[fervent spire]

Ahh that's aesthetically better I guess lol

[heady sun]

which turbomotor recipe do you guys like for mass production

[mint coral]

the one that fits the most resources i have easy access to

[meager kettle]

any except turbo pressure motor :p

[shrewd yacht]

what would make Ionized Fuel more viable as a power source?

another 500-1000MJ maybe?

[mint coral]

its viable the gains are not high thats all. nor should it be you are Burning powershards which is energy intensive to make

[shrewd yacht]

it works, but you have to build a lot of underclocked machines to get any real gain

I'm using 15 encoders to make shards for fuel 🙂

50% speed to reduce the power requirement on them

the gain from turbo to rocket is bigger which to make makes no sense

its like the end product in that fuel chain and should be better

[meager kettle]

ionized fuel is more useful for drones and jetpacks than making any quantity of it

[shrewd yacht]

that is fine, but it could be balanced a bit better for power production as well

I've tried to wrap my head around nuclear,, but the fuel generator stuff is much easier

[obtuse hawk]

So out of curiosity, if I have an item that a 100% constructor produces 15/min, and I need 20 per min, is it better to run 1 constructor at 100% and another at 33.3333% or is it better to run both at 66.6667%?

[shrewd yacht]

two at an even output

the power reduced at the top of the clock speed is higher

as in you reduce power use more going from 100 to 90% than 80 to 70

[obtuse hawk]

gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks!

[shrewd yacht]

it is easier to just set up a row at 100% and underclock a single machine to the desired speed though

[obtuse hawk]

I think that depends on the numbers involved

[shrewd yacht]

but with the copy and past and the pipette function it is simple

set the speed of the first then copy and then plop down

[obtuse hawk]

right

[shrewd yacht]

all will be placed with the setting of the first

finding a number of machines that give a sensible number is not always easy

I have a few setups with like x.6667 and stuff like that on the output

[fervent spire]

I do this just so the mental math is easier lol

[shrewd yacht]

all I care about is the output and if needed I put a sign at the last machine with the total out from a row

[meager kettle]

i'm a bit weird, if i need 20 and one machine makes 15, i'll prob make 2 machines making 30 total and sink the rest :p

[shrewd yacht]

I use overflow splitters for sinking if I have extra of some early stuff

[magic fulcrum]

are there any beginner layouts for fuel generators?

[fervent spire]

round_up(needed output/output per machine) and then clock the last one to whatever is needed to make the remainder

[shrewd yacht]

depends on what recipes you've unlocked

[meager kettle]

fuel gens? just make em face each other and place a junction between em

[magic fulcrum]

everything before fuel generator milestone

[magic fulcrum]

aight

[fervent spire]

I'll do this but underclock the last machine instead of sinking it lol

[meager kettle]

then just repeat until you match how many you need to how much fuel you have

[shrewd yacht]

I mean... if you've got the achievement and bought everything in the store there is no need to sink stuff really

but then the factory stops

[meager kettle]

factory must grow :3

[shrewd yacht]

I think what kaleb is asking for is the full setup for fuel

I mean you can burn oil directly at first if you really need to

[meager kettle]

no you can't burn crude :p

[shrewd yacht]

oh heh... strange

[meager kettle]

have to process it to fuel

[shrewd yacht]

I never did try that

[meager kettle]

theres an oodle of ways to make fuel, it will depend which recipes you have available

[shrewd yacht]

early on I guess you just make fuel from crude and burn it

[magic fulcrum]

whats the best way to make turbofuel in general ?

[shrewd yacht]

the resin goes into residual plastic/rubber as needed

you really need the diluted fuel alt to really make fuel

that and the heavy oil residue alt

[fervent spire]

Fuel + compacted coal and just sink the polymer resin is the easiest

[meager kettle]

crude to heavy oil residue to diluted packaged fuel,then make turbo fuel. there is a mor efficient one if you have blenders, turbo blend fuel, but if you have blenders, just make rocket fuel instead :p

[shrewd yacht]

burn the compacted coal for more power tbh

until you get a proper loop going

[wind spade]

imo best way is to not make it at all

though if you want "best", you need to define what do you mean by best

[magic fulcrum]

nvm ill just use fuel and then later on in my playthrough ill see if i can unlock it

[shrewd yacht]

why not make turbofuel?

[wind spade]

why yes? you can just make more fuel

[magic fulcrum]

cus i have not even touched the sulfur mam tree yet

[shrewd yacht]

but if you want to generate power with it you get more from turbo than regular fuel

[meager kettle]

its a lot easier to make the diluted fuel step, then tack on rocketfuel, rather then makign turbo fuel, having to tear that down to replace with rocket fuel if you want more power

[wind spade]

you get more per oil
but you need to use other resources for it

[shrewd yacht]

600 turbo doens't use a whole lot tbh

[wind spade]

it's easier to make diluted fuel and then nuclear 😛

[wind spade]

it uses different resources
fuel is just oil + water

[fervent spire]

I think turbo fuel is solid tbh.
I have 1200 crude oil going into
300 turbo fuel, polymer resin making 80 rubber
400 plastic, 320 of which going to computers

So with 1200 crude I'm powering 40 generators and making 80 plastic, 80 rubber, and 10 computers

Which is more than enough for phase 3 at least

[magic fulcrum]

diluted fuel tier 7 tho im only tier 5

[meager kettle]

there is packaged diluted fuel in tier 5

[wind spade]

the point is you have to use coal and sulfur, instead of just hooking it to a few oil nodes

I personally don't see point for it

[wind spade]

diluted packaged is T5

[mint coral]

i think ill be fine for phase three with my 300 oil worth of diluted fuel

[shrewd yacht]

I'm making around 120GW in blue crater from fuel

[mint coral]

i hit 500 gw there on a previous playthrough. Its a solid area for Nitro rocket fuel

[shrewd yacht]

yep, nice place for fuel power generation

I'm also making what plastic and rubber I've needed in that place so far

right now my power is from 600 rocket fuel and 600 ionized fuel 🙂

[mint coral]

you were saying ^^_

[magic fulcrum]

i just watched a video on that it makes things way to complicated i personally think that i should just wait till tier 7

[shrewd yacht]

well I do have an untapped pure oil node in the crater so plenty more if I want

[wind spade]

it's not complicated at all
you make a blueprint which basically works exactly as a blender and just spam that blueprint

[dusky dust]

If you're afraid of Packaged Diluted Fuel, my recommendation is Don't Be™. :D Even in a 4x4 blueprint you can fit a 1x Refinery (Packaged Diluted FUel) and 2x Packager (Packaged Water + Unpackage Fuel), with Empty Packages preloaded into the Packaged Water packager. Becomes a one-click mini-blender which takes in Water + HOR and spits out Fuel, just like the Blender version does in T7

[shrewd yacht]

15 encoders glowing into the sky looks nice 🙂

[dusky dust]

One layout which works in a 4x4:

[magic fulcrum]

alr that looks so much more basic in a layout

[meager kettle]

hm, making 600 ionized fuel over 600 rocket fuel would be a net loss in power. you need 7.5 quantum encoders, each on 2000mw which is 15000mw, the diffrence in 600 rocket fuel (36000) to 600 ionized (50000) is 14000mw :o

[dusky dust]

The main complication is that it does help to have Empty Packages automated so that you've got those going into your Depot, and that they work at 60/min instead of 100/min (at least, if you keep 'em at 100% clock), so you need more of them than you would need of the later Blender version

But once you've got the blueprint they're quite easy to just plonk down in a row

[shrewd yacht]

I'm underclocking the big consumers to 50%

[meager kettle]

also not counting the power to make the dark matter crystals and excited photonic matter for the power shards

[dusky dust]

I tend to do 'em in "modules" like that. A single underclocked water extractor providing the water, and it feeds the exact number of gens that 60/min fuel supports

(Of course once you do have the Blender version there's little reason to stick with packaged, but at least blueprints make the packaged version a breeze. And it's satisfying watching the packages zipping around. :)

[meager kettle]

oh and the tiem crystals, thats another particle accelerator step into a converter step

[shrewd yacht]

the accelerators are underclocked

I have 4 making the alternate

and one that use time crystals but underclocked to 66.67 roughly

[meager kettle]

the alternate? diamonds have like six of em

[shrewd yacht]

oh the ones making diamonds are not that power hungry

I'm using turbo diamonds as that tie in with the loop that spits out compacted coal

it does use a lot of coal per minute, but meh... plenty of coal around here

[meager kettle]

i'm not convinced all those machines together are under 14000mw

and even if they are, they wont be a lot under that, making a lot of effort for very little gain

[shrewd yacht]

according to greeny its just under 17000MW for the ionized fuel loop before underclocks

[meager kettle]

just seems a waste to burn it, when you can have best drone and jetpack fuel on hand :p

[shrewd yacht]

I do use it for that as well

but I don't have a lot of drones

Only for some small stuff like getting some aluminum bottles to package fuel for the drones and personal use and such

so I basically have a buffer and instead of 80 OC generators I use 79

[meager kettle]

i see

[shrewd yacht]

I didn't really do the math on the power gain much as I just wanted to try set it all up as well

just a fun project with all the high end machines

[meager kettle]

yea i have 2 rocket fuel pipes reserved to make dark ion fuel once i get around to make my aluminium plant

[shrewd yacht]

I did consider double the converters making the crystals

[meager kettle]

but it'll all be bottled

[shrewd yacht]

need 16 of them for this

each up to 400MW

ahh I just used greenys tool and told it to make ionized fuel from 600 turbo fuel 🙂

so it went with the power shards one

[vapid gorge]

@heady sun Examples of outputs

Crystal https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=5SVORK0pKX0BxqI9FXH8
Silica https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=FhkPMbGOof5xuyrfi9zr

using more quartz efficient recipes

vs

Both https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=FhkPMbGOof5xuyrfi9zr

You get more crystal and almost 2x as much silica using the distilled/purification combo

[timid pagoda]

well this took me like 3 days... but now I think we're ready to put it in game.. yay planning

[wind spade]

you could use e.g. the above linked planner to do that way faster 😛

[mint coral]

but sexy layout blueprinmts

[timid pagoda]

yeah i've been doing a bunch. hate just slapping down until it's made

also had to redo a bit, miscounted OC adjusting later

[vapid gorge]

purely 2D layouts? ew

[timid pagoda]

yeah, but then i'm not doing it myself and might as well just cheat my way to the stars

I've explicitly not looked things up for the game because of that

[mint coral]

to each tehre own. I use pads and spreadsheets. then use tools to check my math

[wind spade]

eh, it's like using a calculator, you could calculate 4184648x874974413 by hand, but why bother

the actual layout is under your control anyway, Tools just do the math for you

[timid pagoda]

I don't feel that way, the planning is part of the gameplay for me. Feels like "you aim for me, I'll just pull the trigger when you line it up". But, as you say: to each, their own.

I've got a team for the layout work lol, I just do the math and keep them in build materials as they go.

When i'm doing math and there's nothing to build I tell them to F off and get me more rare bits.
I mean, just the one machine is 211 boosts, and we haven't made it to synthetic ones yet, I saw that down the pipeline in the research.

[versed nymph]

If i need less than provided water from extractor, would it better to underclock it or put a valve?

[vapid gorge]

underclock. Never use valves for anything

[versed nymph]

the foundry from scrap production has 120/m water byproduct, the refinery before it need 180/m water so i add extractor with around 60-70 valve limit

[vapid gorge]

that is basically the least reliable way to put waste water back into a system

if you're going to direct feed it, clock your water extractor right and put a powered pump on

not a valve

better yet, don't merge them at all

example diagrams https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1286300794311938099/1286343954157277307/alum_options.png?ex=69a1b429&is=69a062a9&hm=2a8aedd3ed41907cc0323d91050c0896597e59ab4f210633fce6ad24454f8db2&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=934&height=1320

practical example https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1289415239149813840/image.png?ex=69a1abc5&is=69a05a45&hm=bf21b678b20157d447bdf66761b9e0289e5fd8a7ac76166db01d06613ef68004&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=275&height=350

blue is fresh water , red is waste

[ionic sapphire]

no way to prioritize one input over another ?

[versed nymph]

yeah i still not yet add more refinery because sulphur and copper node is too far

[wind spade]

no need to if they are separate

but yeah, no 100% reliable to do so, given that fluids are bidirectional and can flow in any way they desire

[ionic sapphire]

i heard height can be used ?

[wind spade]

not 100% reliable

people often give you solutions that work for them and in their specific case (and even then, the "work" usually is "I haven't seen issues yet", which usually means "there are issues, just haven't been noticed yet")

[vapid gorge]

just split the solution production between 2 refineries

clocking is your friend

[vapid gorge]

they are less than reliable.
Sometimes VIPs work for someone all the time, sometimes very rarely. Based on an exploit after all

and direct feeding fluids with pump or valve is like balancing a spinning plate.

[ionic sapphire]

well i havent touched fluids for the most part

[vapid gorge]

often fiddly to make it spin right and can just fall over with a hiccup

[ionic sapphire]

coming from factorio i would like more control over my fluids

[vapid gorge]

you have total control of your fulids

[ionic sapphire]

i really dont

[vapid gorge]

keep the waste and fresh split.

absolute control

and also - screw factorio. This isn't it.

[ionic sapphire]

lol

are fluid mechanics on the wiki ?

[vapid gorge]

pipe manual explains it in detail but the mechanics are basically

1. liquids prefer to move down
2. fluids are bidirectional

all the behaviours expand from those two traits

[wind spade]

you don't need it in this game

[ionic sapphire]

you dont need it in factorio either

but damn does it help

[wind spade]

you need it more than here

[vapid gorge]

good burn it down there too

ok good luck with your factorio business

[wind spade]

don't thumb me down, I've played Factorio for 3k hours, I know exactly how much it is "needed" there 🙂

[vapid gorge]

too many people have gone 'this game isn't 3D factorio and my feelings are hurt' for me to care

[ionic sapphire]

well, if we are going by pure playtime i have more experience

[wind spade]

good for you. Now tell me how they are needed less than in SF

[ionic sapphire]

there are still no numbers

[vapid gorge]

so you know mk1 belts can only move 60 parts per min right?

you're merging multiple miners though

you can upgrade them,

but you also have to properly math things out. Here you're just linking up a bunch of belts w/o any idea as to the numbers

at this point I would just go find a bunch of coal nodes next to water and make power there

you'll need more power anyway , and you're doing this in a messy way

dragging water and coal long distances to burn it

I'm just pointing it out with a solution to it. Find coal next to water and burn it on the spot 🙂 makes life easier

and automate your RIPs, automate basically everything honestly

did you start in the first zone?

north north west, perfect coal spot

[mint coral]

The devs put that there justnfornyou @mint pike

Use the water there ^-^

[wind spade]

*extractors 🙂

[vapid gorge]

burn it on location then, looks like you've just piped water for no reason

[wind crown]

Flowing liquids up can often be difficult. Seems like you have pumps on the pipes to help them though

[vapid gorge]

2 pipes also can't move that much liquid

just burn the coal there, there's zero reason to drag it back to your first factory

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

convenient coal layouts for both beginners and experts

[wind crown]

cars are so fun

[mint coral]

If you are able to drive the explorer is fun

Explorer is a good offroad vehicle for ...exploring. its essentially a dune buggy with a built in crafting bench so you can craft hard biomass on the go.

Its in the mam

[wind crown]

Looks good!

[orchid brook]

i have 7 belts of 1200 ores and 2 trains, each 5 fraight carts will that be enough to travel all the way to the dune dessert?

[meager kettle]

when in doubt, add more choo

[wind spade]

I'd just do one car per belt

[orchid brook]

and then add more trains?

[meager kettle]

if needed yes

use one train engine per four cars, so if you have seven cars, you should use two engines to maintain max speed

[orchid brook]

or there is space to the left and i added one more train so it will be fine

[warped tendon]

My minds blanking today but I believe this would be correct

Finding the amount of an item you need to make/min to make x amount of that item in 300 minutes would be
x/300 ?

My minds completely blanking today for some reason.

If I’m right that means I need to make 338.1 Mod frames/min to make 101,430 in 300 minutes..

Which leads to my real question.. For a ton of mod frames would yall use purely iron alts or use the steeled frame?

[wind spade]

depends on location, preferences, etc. 🙂

tho I personally dislike the iron-only steel recipes for their sheer cost

[warped tendon]

Yea I don’t mind either which is why I thought I’d get the smart peeps ideas and see if anyone’s already made similiar plans

[meager kettle]

steeled frame with the solid steel alt would probably be least amount of resources

[warped tendon]

I think iron wise bolted frame is the most iron efficient.. But steeled frame looks most efficient overall

[wind spade]

you can't just compare two recipes like that, you need to compare whole chain

[warped tendon]

Well I don’t know about bolted frame being the most efficient I just remember it made the most per min

True yes.. I’ve gotta look at the math soon

Thought I’d get some ideas first though

[wind spade]

basically every possible route you can think of is legit, so pick one that makes sense in your current situation and given your preferences and limitations

[warped tendon]

By adding 5 minutes to my 300 I can go the steeled frame route making 333/min

Using no more than 1 pure node of iron, copper, and coal.

Another option could be going the aluminum route. Replacing steel with aluminum alts making steel.

I feel while more complicated it would provide more materials to work with. However, I don’t need more.

Actually - Aluminum can’t make steel pipes.

It could make rods into screws, however

That path is much less material efficient wow

[half frigate]

hey so, i need to make 266.664 encased uranium cells, i have a blueprint that'll make 50 per minute (2 blenders at 25 each), i've got 6 blenders down, doing 266.664/50 gives me 5.3~ total blenders, what i'm wanting to know is, what should the clock speed of the 6th blender be? (100% will do 25 per minute)

[round hamlet]

Do gases still fill lower pipes first, like liquids do? I want to have some overflow logic in the future of my save to prevent deadlocks and nuclear failure

[meager kettle]

if one blender does 25, ten will do 250, that leaves 16.66 so clock last one to 16.66/25 = 66.64%

[half frigate]

thanks

[half frigate]

2nd question, 24 uranium fuel rods per cycle/8 per minute, how many reactors can that supply?

I wanna assume 24, but I doubt its that low, considering a burn time of 0.2 per 5 minutes, 3 minute recipe cycle, im thinking its closer to 100

[dusky dust]

With a burn time of 0.2/min, and a production rate of 8/min rods, that's 40 NPPs (if clocked at 100%). ```py

8/0.2
40.0

[half frigate]

Thanks

I would do the math, well, try myself but im tired lol I struggle to wake up in the mornings so I stayed up all night

[dusky dust]

There's a built-in calculator in the game, btw -- hit n. :D

[half frigate]

Oh im aware

[dusky dust]

Also: go get some sleep. Sleep's more important than a game!

[half frigate]

I will sleep later

Games not running atm and wont be till after ive slept

I needed to be up because my grandfather's mate is coming over for an electrical assessment of our house

Im probably gonna need to triple down on the production, ill do that some other day. Im already going to need to load the uranium waste into a train for a 2nd base on plutonium

[mint coral]

@grand rune Im doing 20gw of diluted packaged fuel in phase 3 so that is normal

#screenshots message

[grand rune]

i'm converting it into turbo

[mint coral]

#satisfactory-memes message

[mint coral]

I tend to skip turbo. 20gw is plenty for me

[grand rune]

it used more oil

[mint coral]

600 oil.

But no coal

[grand rune]

i did all that for a bit more than 200oil/min

[mint coral]

Yup

I just did one node. I picked one at random

[grand rune]

but i'm planing to add more of them in the future :)

[mint coral]

Im going nuclear this time.

But I normally i do nitro rocket fuel once I get fraking unlocked. Hard to say no to 200gw of power using 600 oil and other resources.

[grand rune]

i don't like nuck that much

prefer rock

[meager kettle]

nuclear is fun to setup and it feels nice once it runs :3

[grand rune]

and iradiated :3

[meager kettle]

That inner glow

[grand rune]

you have an idea how i could decorate that ? #screenshots message

[meager kettle]

refineries?

[grand rune]

yes

[meager kettle]

i like doing things like this

[grand rune]

i mean

i won't redo the build xDD

for obvious reasons xDDD

[meager kettle]

those designs are made to just clip into the space between refineries, no need to rebuild if you do it that way

[grand rune]

alr

[meager kettle]

you can place two refiners in the blueprint designer, make your decoration, delete the refineries and save blueprint

[grand rune]

and what you do when you have 2 tracks which need to go in a facory but without push pull set up ?

[grand rune]

good idea

[meager kettle]

not sure what you mean

[grand rune]

looks like shit

[meager kettle]

could try something like this

[grand rune]

mhm

i like this

i could do push pull tbh .-.

i'll

[meager kettle]

push pull isnt really a thing with trains

[grand rune]

wdym

irl you mean ?

[meager kettle]

whats pushing and whats pulling, your trains just move according to time table set

[grand rune]

when you have one loco on each sides

[meager kettle]

thats bidirectional, and only supports one train on one track

[grand rune]

dw i cook :)

btw i want to say it bc i'm so happy

irl i'll be a train driver soon

[meager kettle]

like it works, but thruput will just be the one

[grand rune]

you can work around it

[meager kettle]

by adding a second track? in which case you dont need to do that

infact it would be detrimental to do that

[grand rune]

i just don't want do make an ugly loop

[meager kettle]

make it pretty then :p

[grand rune]

pretty way first

[meager kettle]

and cover the map :p

[grand rune]

wtf you done around the lake xDD

power plant ?

[meager kettle]

yea

[grand rune]

i knew it

[grand rune]

ye i'm using trucks :D

never forget the goat @meager kettle

[cedar folio]

You can do a split at the station and do the push pull train. I do it most of the time instead of doing a turn around after the station.

[grand rune]

I done that

[cedar folio]

Oh okay then. I'm confused then and didn't follow the chat then 😄

[west plover]

Is this in the realm of spaghetti or am i okay for now?

[wind crown]

Not spaghetti

Though spaghetti is in general in the eye of the beholder

[west plover]

I like compact factories, but fitting all of this in a pretty small space is quite tight.

[mint coral]

i like the tracks

[west plover]

Thanks! Me too, wasnt planned, but i incorporated them

[river bane]

Is building in columns like this (factorio player here), bad? Each column has it's own product kind of thing. It's def not space efficient but I like being able to expand each line whenever I want and it's easy for me brain to comprehend this way

[dusky dust]

Heh, as with much in this game, the only real metric for "bad" or "good" is "does it produce what I wanted it to produce?" If so: then yep, it's great. If not, then Room For Improvement. :D But yeah, lines of manifolds are quite common

The one thing I'll say is that bus-driven design of the sort very common in Factorio really does not work well in Satisfactory. It can be done, but it turns into a PITA and there's generally much easier ways to go about it

Unlike Factorio, you've got infinitely-generating nodes with 100% predictable extraction rates, so you can always know exactly how much material's on any given belt -- "direct" A->B transfers are nearly always a lot simpler than other more complex setups.

(And with busses in specific, keep in mind that the fastest Satisfactory belt is slower than the slowest Factorio belt. :)

[river bane]

Yeah I'm trying to avoid bus design I just needed a way to build that didn't require me to keep ripping up old builds whenever I got to a new part unlock, already had to rip my base up twice because I kept running into space issues

[dusky dust]

Though of course the most important metric is Having Fun™, so feel free to build busses if you'll have a good time doing so. :)

[dusky dust]

As to that, I really commonly recommend "Independency" -- https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency. Once a factory's done, it's done, never touch it again, etc.

It's a huge map, with more resources on it than a lot of folks realize. You really have to try hard to actually run out of resources. :D

I would advocate more but I'm steppin' AFK for awhile. Good luck, enjoy!

[river bane]

I appreciate the advice! I think once I can spend some time making my own blueprints I can make some much less boring stuff lol. first playthrough and all hard to wrap my head around things

Because each factory is self-sufficient and does not need to account for the required input of other factories, there is no need to rebuild or expand as the need to automate new parts arises.

alright it just clicked for me, I'm gonna rebuild with this more decentralized independent factory approach. tyvm 😄

[fervent spire]

ok so I've been having my train line running at theoretically over the throughput limit.
I'm using mk4 belts for ore, so (32*100)/480 = 6.66 minutes to empty the freight depot.
so I just added the industrial storage container at the output station to act as a buffer, and I am seeing gaps in the belt as these industrial containers are filling up. which seems wrong because the RTT of the train is like less than 3 minutes

did something go wrong in my calculations?

OH the belts just stop during the loading/unloading animation, okay that's why you need the industrial storage

[mint coral]

6.66 minutes is a a Satanic way of saying 186 seconds

[fervent spire]

.....you wanna know what's even better
I did ALL OF THIS NONSENSE #screenshots message
only to JUST NOW realize that I could have just put an industrial storage directly next to each freight station, used literally no extra space, and saved myself the last four hours of time
.......I'm an idiot 🙃

[mint coral]

You grow and learn.

Most the time storage is useless unless you are hording for personal use. You got there thats what matters

[glacial crest]

I hate this

[wary rapids]

what don't you like. the recipes used. i prefer modalr sence i have a grasp on what recipes make the most stuff and i just tell it to use those.

also easier to walk something back and see how it changes with differt routes.

free on steam

[gray flower]

<@&387163995947270144> Lovely day we having here

[rapid ridge]

will this be enough storage for the game? (only one container per item)

there are 108 in total

[wind spade]

Why not depots?

[rapid ridge]

each one will have one above it with a lift leading into it

i just dont have the orbs rn

[wind spade]

But why centralised

[rapid ridge]

because i wanted to build an ikea and i also want something to put in said ikea

[frosty owl]

Best to have too many than too few

[rapid ridge]

atleast i have space to expand

[arctic zinc]

Why is this belt from my miner giving more than the 2 paths I split? and whats the fix?

their mk2 belts

same here

[meager kettle]

giving more?

looks like its splitting it fine

[arctic zinc]

Like these 2 belts are basically empty but the other 2 are full

[meager kettle]

well yea, you're splitting it twice

[arctic zinc]

and my fuze jsut blew because of it lol

[meager kettle]

or three times actually

[frosty owl]

Split 1 in two to get two halves.
Split any half in two and you get fourths...

[arctic zinc]

So would i need another coal miner to help it then

[frosty owl]

Or just wait until things balance out (assuming your math is correct ofc)

[meager kettle]

you have 60/min coming in, and more than 4 coal gens, so you'll be short

the spaghetti makes it hard to see, but it looks like you got 60 in, splitting it three ways, 20/20/20 feeding two of them into two coals, then splitting the last 20 three more ways into 6.6666 each which is a lot less than the 15/min each coal gen demands

[arctic zinc]

Its 240 min I think

[meager kettle]

once the first two coal gens are full the split will be 15/15/30, but then splitting 30 three ways, is 10 each, still less than 15 required

[arctic zinc]

Mk2 miner on pure coal

[meager kettle]

you have a mk2 belt

[arctic zinc]

oooo

[meager kettle]

its 120, which you're splitting, is 60

[arctic zinc]

Oh I see

[meager kettle]

very easy to see since the belt is coal - space - coal - space indicating its at half capacity

[arctic zinc]

The ape has learned now

thank you for that sir

[arctic sequoia]

If u open the coal miner it has an efficiency rating, it’s very useful to check that (after everything has been running for some time) from time to time to see if ur using all that the Miner is giving you 😃

[arctic zinc]

this?

[arctic sequoia]

Yes

But not for the Generator, I meant the miner

[arctic zinc]

ok

33% efficiency

Would the way to up that be a higher tier belt?

[meager kettle]

belt need to match production

[arctic sequoia]

Then either your Belt is too slow or ur not using enough generators to make use of all the coal

[meager kettle]

or not match, but allow for the output

240/min from miner, but a t2 belt the miner can only output what the belt can handle, so 120/min, a t3 belt would handle 270 so that would allow miner to output the full 240

[half frigate]

The math's for this game is fun, but sometimes I can also be a nightmare. If I did it right, I should be able to power 164 nuclear reactors on plutonium from my uranium waste.

Hang on, is plutonium waste to ficsonium a direct 1:1?

[meager kettle]

1:2

100 plutonium waste makes 50 ficsonium fuel rods

or 2:1 i spose :p

[half frigate]

Great to know that my 164 plutonium reactors can supply 82 ficsonium

I may end up being closer to 300 nuclear reactors in total, this is awesome

[arctic zinc]

( im worrying aout my coal reactors btw 💀 )

[half frigate]

You're still early

So dont worry, your next project is fuel gens which is easy

[half frigate]

If you have access to Mk2 pipes, you can supply 13 coal gens with water, if only mk1 its almost 7.

Coal is easy, so darn easy. Its fun

[arctic zinc]

I have now 2 mk2 miners on 2 pure coal, i split them into 1 going for 3 coal gens and 2 foundrys and then another for the other 4 coal gens and it seems to all be working good now

Just need to do another foundry for more steel beams

i think 3 storage containers per component was overkill now

[half frigate]

1 pure coal node with a mk2 miner at max oc can supply like, 128 coal gens assuming you want to do the work for it and place down all yhe water extractors

[arctic zinc]

Im gonna research the overclock after this harddrive, Is it good to just overclock everything?

[half frigate]

If you do compacted coal you can supply far more as the burn time is 25 seconds instead of 16

[half frigate]

No, underclock more than overclock

[meager kettle]

overclocking miners/extractor will provice more resources. overclocking things like smelters/constructors/etc just reduces the amount of machines you need at the cost of power

[half frigate]

More overclocking means higher energy consumption, which means you'll need a bigger power grid to handle it

[meager kettle]

a full (250%) overclock reduces machines by 2.5x at cost of 34% more power used

[half frigate]

Things like ore nodes and water/oil extractors are fine to OC but dont OC every machine you build

[arctic zinc]

So what about underclocking?

[half frigate]

A manufacturer at max OC will consume roughly 300Mw
A blender near a full Gw
Particle accelerator will consume a staggering 15Gw

[meager kettle]

underclock is opposite, more machines at less power draw

[half frigate]

Reduces power consumption, slower automation, but does allow you to overclock the more important machines for the items that take longer to create, (longer recipe cycle time)

Start small and work your way up, save your shards for recipes that have much longer cycle times. Ones that will produce 1 item every 80 seconds, 120 or even 180 seconds (and in the case of late stage nuclear, 300 seconds).

Things like iron rods, reinforced iron plates, regular iron plates etc can be underclocked just fine. Personally I would reccomend doing the math to overclock modular frames but dont immediately max those machines out

[meager kettle]

hm? makes no diffrence on what you underclock, you just compensate with more machines to get same production rate

[half frigate]

Yea i mean sure

I wont dispute that

[wind crown]

I’d find it easier to make a bigger power factory and then smaller other factories that are just over clocked. More so limited by power shards than anything else

Kinda just something you decide based on your situation tho

[wary rapids]

@arctic zinc Power is simple 15 coal per gene. You'll be bottle neck by belt speed before phase 4 at 2400mw per coal node. you can supplement with residue from your first rubber plastics operation for another 2500 mw. and get another 7100 average power from geo thermal. with far less then the 36 battery's the wiki say you need. ( your sine curve only varies by plus minus 1k mW) after you setup aluminum. you can build out a base load rocket fuel power. usually you go with nitro rocket fuel to conserve oil which bottlenecks on sulfur. 54k mw per 600 sulfur. If you decide you have enough oil plastics and want to be efficient with sulfur you can squeze 240Kmw from 1200 sulfur. and the cost of 1800 oil. 960 unlocked generators. places like the spire coast blue crater are suited for this.

Somewhere in between you can make a nuclear test plant. with 300 uranium for 90k power. but that more about wanting the experence then needing the power.

[meager kettle]

tbf, blue crater has 3300 sulfur available within spitting distance, so you dont need to be that frugal with it. can use 1200 crude to make 4800 rocketfuel

[wind lion]

Smth doesnt work welll, one side is full of water, this, does not want to fill??

I may have found what it was

[dusky dust]

The piping that's visible there seems fine. Sometimes it can help to pre-fill all the pipes and such before actually turning all the gens on

'cause it can take some time for the fluid to fill up all over the place

You can switch one or two of the gens to "standby" to do that, since you'll be putting more water into the system than the active gens need

[pearl oasis]

Sometimes adding extra pumps helps and also be patient with pipes

They take a while to get going

[wind lion]

It was 1% tilt that was a bit higher then the right side...didnt know it made such diff

[wind lion]

This was build few days ago, and was filled fully

[pearl oasis]

Just place more pumps than you actually need

[meager kettle]

pipes fill nearly instantly. its the manifolds which take time to fill if you're consuming as you add

[pearl oasis]

My pipes dont fill instantly…

[wind lion]

As i said, coal was full

[meager kettle]

the pipe ui is severly misleading :p

[pearl oasis]

But ive gotten used to it

[pearl oasis]

Oh welp

[coral helm]

understatement of the century lol

[meager kettle]

actually i'm a little wrong, pipes dont fill instantly, but the flow goes to max near instantly. like if pipe volume is 600m^3 it'll take a minute to fill at 600/min. theres no flow ramp up like pipes tend to show

like if you open pipe ui and watch flow you can see it slowly ramp up from 0 to 600. but if you actually time it with a stopwatch, its instantly 600

[wary rapids]

I will probably have more knowledge with fluids after my next aluminum project. I'm planning use remote circuts for water. and prime itself with alumina solution. with an isolated circut. Im taking a huge risk doing it this way. sense i wont know if im successful untill i access T3 miners.

[grand rune]

OFF

[grand rune]

which app/site is that from ?

[wary rapids]

steam

[grand rune]

which app ?

[wary rapids]

satifacotry moddeler

[grand rune]

ty

9h lol

[wary rapids]

i leave it open

[grand rune]

.-.

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=e6EjJa5OnpwYbfRseKSI

you can help me ?

i feel like i can obtimise this more

[wary rapids]

not with tools. i can run something with modder however

[grand rune]

alr i'll redo it on modder

[wary rapids]

you have a specefic mount of something you want to make or want to know how much your makeing with an amount of something

their is certain times you need to add a sink in moddler so to so you can simulate all your machines running. and its doesnt know how to solve this looped system.

where tools will give you ansers but not in a format that inforform your stucture.

[grand rune]

i didn't understood

[wary rapids]

will give an expample

say i have a big factory but only making so may of the end products maybe i dont have enough pasta to make all the warp drives. yet. i can add a sink to see if my current material in my curretn bugget.

[grand rune]

i see

[wary rapids]

you may need to substrct to asign the right part limit to the sink.

[grand rune]

it looks harder than tools

[wary rapids]

it is but you can give it the restraints your looking for. and test differnt paths.

tools your cant give it all the restraint and you have to manually uncheck everything you dont want it to do.

so the same thing and tools can be allot harder.

frankly i think i will be importing my starter facotry inot google sheets so i can see my budgets for each item faster. and make a control room spredshhet in game to see it in later years.

[grand rune]

ive this

when i put the miner it does this

how i fix that ?

[wary rapids]

remove the miner and assign a part limit for metal. your miners capcity

your capicity will change with belt speed.

[grand rune]

alr ty

how i can fix that ?

[wary rapids]

i can show you.

[grand rune]

ye

[wary rapids]

how much oil do you have

[grand rune]

i didn't set it

oh in game

[wary rapids]

or how much coke do you want?

[grand rune]

1200

[wary rapids]

your after the coke right

[grand rune]

the uper line is 360 ruber

[wary rapids]

i dont know why thiers two circurts sence i dont see what your doing with remaining resude which you much do something with.

you want fuell with remaining residue?

[grand rune]

i'm doing both recipies because in neither cases i'll not have enough coke or residue

[wary rapids]

lets say early game

you can proablly get by with half that oil

is 200 rubber enogh? you can makke allot more later.

[grand rune]

game said no

oh with fuel ye

i passed my fuel input

i can do only 1200

[wary rapids]

so i would get byy with 400 for now. and make a plan which invlce this later.

the extra fuel is the number of rubber and or plastic you can make. later.

the rubber plastic moddelr will stuglet with but you can use your fuel budget so the programs doenst blow up

copy and paste the blender

so i would burn the 12k fuel early game then make 1200 more rubber and plastic later. then make rockets fuel with other 1200 fuel

[grand rune]

oo

[wary rapids]

if 400 rubber is enogh for you in this phase

[grand rune]

you cooked my brain rn

[wary rapids]

not your fault.

[grand rune]

wdym

[wary rapids]

the main thing is can you get by with 400 rubber now and is the extra fuell enogh.

[grand rune]

you hacked the game lol

that's all i need now

[wary rapids]

and you can look at this later.

[grand rune]

😵‍💫

[wary rapids]

for now your doing this.

[grand rune]

how i can do an item input ?

[wary rapids]

you can drag nodes. if it is open it just assmumes you have what you need. of that thing.

right click to make part limits.

[grand rune]

but if i've a part of the that thing

and i still want to produce the other part

[wary rapids]

the parts your makeing with the rubber right?

[grand rune]

here i need 720 casing

but its more than one pure node for me

soo since i'm already producing 300

i think i can give 200-250 to this production

[wary rapids]

aluminium is like a mouth design process but you can see how much you need.

[grand rune]

i don't understand

[wary rapids]

you dont need any rubber to make occilators?

[grand rune]

i meant the alu casing

[grand rune]

i do bc i'm using it in the cables

[wary rapids]

so do you want to fouce on makeing the casings next

you probably have the logistics and factory zoned out for oscillators.

[grand rune]

i don't have an oscillator fact :)

never seen the use xD

i see it now

[wary rapids]

oscillators are amazing for doing allot of stuff with a little rescues. the quatz to make as mush as you want is easy to come by.

[grand rune]

you think i should do a mega oscillator factory ?

i'll go eat i might send you a private message

[wary rapids]

i dont think thats a good plan i work from reasonble numbers of radip control systems and a certain number of tubro motors and stuff your making with them.

you want to push your tech into higher phases before going to ham.

youll want 1080 aluminum for casings but you probally want more for other stuff

and alos fused mod frames

cooling systems will be important later. alumium is all phase4/4 late game stuff so you dont need make your phase 3 budgets reflect that.

id foucus on your rubber plant then pick any area for a decent size aluminum plant and not go overboard.

@grand rune cheers sence your head explodes with recycled rubber and plastics you can view some kibtiz explanations for that later. you have enough to plan for with aluminum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoCm0H_4YnE&t=379s

[grand rune]

ty

[grand rune]

is this beter ?

like this

i forgot some parts mb

[wary rapids]

i think you could be doing circuts this way.

and then you just need to do something with the water you makeing from the scrap.

[grand rune]

like this ?

oh

[wary rapids]

your making cicrurt with rubber currently for your computers. thats a great recipe to get them done early but not now.

[meager kettle]

is planner spaghetti a thing? that seems like it would be :p

[wary rapids]

its all spegeti depending on how you move the nodes.

[wary rapids]

yes and the only other consideration is what your doing witht eh water from your scrap.

[grand rune]

back in the system !)

[wary rapids]

ok you can turn your water down by that amount and loop that back.

[grand rune]

what ?

[wary rapids]

look at this.

i think all the sulfic acid can be done with the water.

i don't think you will regret using sulfur for scrap. it will probably be so clean it will be your favorite factory.

youl simply fill a water buffer which you turn off to prime the sulfuric acid.

and that amount of water in pipe wont cuase any hassles at all.

[meager kettle]

why are you using such odd numbers? 746 bauxite. why not 780, 600, 1200 etc

[wary rapids]

becuase he was stealling some bauixte to make batterys.

which the sulic acid for those needs to be on its own circut.

im not questioning haveing batteries. if they go into a drone or truck its more cool overall.

that could be enogh for 4-5 tracktors.

[grand rune]

alr

[arctic zinc]

Hello again sir, Trying to record the path for a caterium miner but when I start the recording and then press f to load nothing loads?

[meager kettle]

i believe you just need to pause for it to record a pause mark at the station

i dont really use trucks so dont know all quirks

[arctic zinc]

Ill do the run and see if it works with that

[wary rapids]

Complete you loop back to the flag. pres r to save path, name it, then press enable auto poilot don't forget to check hide path notes. or youll have to flag down the truck later.

trucks is something few people do but its how ive choses to start in dune desert.

[arctic zinc]

It did not load from the initial point

[meager kettle]

i stopped using trucks when they started raining from above when i was expanding my factory :p

[wary rapids]

give the truck time and i will ghost walk to the start point.

[tight karma]

in satisfactory modeler, how do i set the rest of my metal beams to go to the storage container, when i hook it up it just splits the streams in exactly half and messes up the encased beams calculations.

Edit: sorry for interrupting the convo lol

[wary rapids]

on its first time.

i never use that moddeler fearture i think you need to subract and set a limit on the container.

as you would with sinks

[tight karma]

yeah i tried but the container doesnt have many options

[wary rapids]

ah put i sink in that place.

[tight karma]

just did, it works but iisnt ideal xD

[west widget]

I think u have to click on the connection add a smart splitter and select overdlow

[wary rapids]

the autoher designed that program to plan multiple modular facotries but i never use it that way. he made allot of notes in the steam page.

ahh thanks Someone.

that's helpfull

[tight karma]

the priority splitter idea also works, thx!

[analog loom]

the ratio of water ext to coal gen is 3 to 8 right?

[tight karma]

it is

[west widget]

@wary rapids @tight karma np

[wary rapids]

yeah best start on that. then i go every other one later. when belts get bigger. no harm in pumping more water then needed.

it makes it some you dont have to fill machines with water.

my coal is based on 2 normalls which i why i never T4 belted this.

[tight karma]

yeahh but pumping more in than you need will make your power consumption go all wavey

why wont discord let me make waves with the like undescores n stuff

[wary rapids]

i saw a wave but it must have got bot slaped down

[tight karma]

🌊

[meager kettle]

overproduction doesnt really make power graph wavy

[tight karma]

i sent this but there are bigger problems if your power graph looks like this

well yes cuz there'd be nowhere for the water to go so the pumps stop

[wary rapids]

my power graph will always be wavey sence i have the geo thermal.

[meager kettle]

pipes for coal plants have enough internal volume as well as the buffer inside water extractor to cover the shut down/start up cycle on the extractors

[tight karma]

not if they extract more water than you're using

[meager kettle]

wont do anything for your power production

[tight karma]

i was talking consumption waves not production waves

[wary rapids]

think he means demand spike of pump turning on.

[meager kettle]

who cares about consumption waves?

[tight karma]

not even liike a spike

[wary rapids]

those happen no matter what.

[meager kettle]

machines in the end game have variable power draw

[tight karma]

just a slight bump

ii try to keep my consumption as flat as possible (its not rn cuz iim fiixiing some stuff)

[wary rapids]

yes youll make a few bateryies to deal with particle accerator draws.

[tight karma]

I know im not looking forward to it

[wary rapids]

you should the sound they make is tottally metal.

[tight karma]

*not lookiing forward to trying to find a way to balance their powerdraw

[wary rapids]

they go waka waka waka wake brrr

[meager kettle]

what might really eat you up is consumption can go above max consumption due to it :p

[wary rapids]

its fun to sloop and Overclock them to test your circurt breakers.

[limpid vapor]

If you need circuit breakers you're not producing enough power

[wary rapids]

im usually building another plant when i use 60 percent of my output. breakers are a great feature you can use them as primative controls.

[meager kettle]

if you like me and forget to pay attention having some power storage when you flip a switch, realise the new aluminium factory takes 250gw and you see "power storage draining" cuz you only make 288gw and that blew straight past it. so i could just flip it off without killing my grid :p

[wary rapids]

im grappling with the math of a 15 sided aluminua solution complex im proposing for the swamp. i want it to look like a mushroom when finished.

[fervent spire]

why is maximum consumption such an uneven number? is it because of trains being somewhat variable?

[wary rapids]

my graph doenst move.

[meager kettle]

no, you prob have some over or underclocked machines

[arctic zinc]

How do I break this? I saw the same on a caterium and just though it was bugged

[wind spade]

you'll eventually get to a thing that can break it

[arctic zinc]

ok cool ty

[tight karma]

i can't help ignoring verticality lol

[golden hound]

Just wait till you discover the bus method

[quick vigil]

Yall like my factory?

[tight karma]

What method?

[golden hound]

Many mid & end game machines have a large power draw variable. Sections of machines could also be working with unstable resource inputs

[golden hound]

Please hold for screenshots

[tight karma]

Holding

[ionic sapphire]

that should not affect max consumption tho

[golden hound]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1438400907376328866/1477487878056710144/Screenshot20241022-03305700000.png?ex=69a4f150&is=69a39fd0&hm=79aefc728b6cc00895526c23c3b014c67553fdfd4d47ddd27712402a7c9d9da1&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1438400907376328866/1477487881449902181/Screenshot20241028-18200600000.png?ex=69a4f151&is=69a39fd1&hm=ecd6fe0031f5ae83d67df034b1997e361a8ae63a14e823661b16bd20e1f7d6d9&

Outdated photos, the whole left side is done all the way to singularity cells

[golden hound]

U right

[tight karma]

This is very interesting

Might actually convince me to build a mega factory for once instead of a bunch of smaller ones

[ionic sapphire]

that would be a step back imo

[golden hound]

yeah, it was all because of spreadsheet planning. Im very fond of it

[tight karma]

Why's that

[ionic sapphire]

at least the example bus is a very wasteful design

[tight karma]

In terms of space?

[ionic sapphire]

and currently very slow from the looks of it

space, materials, time

[fervent spire]

yeah you could compact it a lot but I imagine it's a lot easier to parse what's going on and what's going where while you're building it if it's that spread out

[tight karma]

I mean, there's space for more belts in the future

Like if you build a new factory and make a new product where would it go if you didn't have space for extra belts

[ionic sapphire]

we apply factorio logic

always build assemblers on one side of the bus, so you can add more belts to the other side of the bus

[tight karma]

Fair

I'll probably still attempt one at some point tho

[tight karma]

I'm assuming the trains just bring in raw ores?

Also like, how? Cuz I assume you easily hit the belt speed cap for stuff like ores and... and.... screws

[ionic sapphire]

add more belts

but congratulations youre seeing the stupidness of a bus

some items are just better on a bus than others

"compact" items

[golden hound]

The main train is primarly raw, all the smelting is underneath the bus.

[ionic sapphire]

like when 1 iron bar turn into 2 screws

its just better to have iron bars on the bus and then make the screws onsite

[golden hound]

Speed or things like screws dosent matter, they arent on the bus. Only iron is on the bus and is crafted in the blueprints

[ionic sapphire]

why not put screws on the bus

[golden hound]

You have to make a choice early of how many layers deep of crafting you want to have on the bp

[tight karma]

Fair fair, but even then iron maxes out at 1200 in endgame

[golden hound]

And screws are easy enough to make on the bp

[ionic sapphire]

thats not the reason to choose a bus

[golden hound]

You can also double stack belts

Copper is the only full belt rn

And i can easily add another belt on top

Its setup for a double belt stack rn

I also avoided screws as much as possible with alt recipes

[golden hound]

I dont mind having two or even three layers of crafting on most of the blueprints because it makes sense in my head

[ionic sapphire]

now i understand what you mean by layers of crafting

[golden hound]

It is definitely not optimal but i like it

[ionic sapphire]

still by default anything can go on a bus

[golden hound]

Yes

[ionic sapphire]

and youre not tied to any layer of crafting

[golden hound]

That is the better way to do it

But i like the layered version for my use

[ionic sapphire]

but yes, it does make sense as i explained above to make some things onsite

[golden hound]

Screws also just piss me off so they are a bad example

As you can see thing are very far from optimized

And very slow at the endgame

But i ran out of motivation and time at the end

[stone delta]

Anyone interested in a set of blueprints that allows you to instantly deploy a nuclear power plant?

[ripe mango]

Are there any especially efficient alts that I should fish for before I design my first HMF factory?

[dusky dust]

Bearing in mind the usual "alt recipes are subjective, and all of them are at least situationally useful," it's true that Heavy Encased Frame is extremely popular as an HMF alt

As for other steps in the production line: as always, https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production is a great way to play around with alts and production chains

Slap in your target rate, head to the "recipes" tab, and enable/disable at will. The solver will re-solve whenever you make a change

[ripe mango]

Yeah, I primarily use Satisfactory Modeler, but it doesn't visualize alt recipe efficiency especially well. Will give the web tool a go.

[dusky dust]

(sftools primarily solves for lowest-resource-usage based on some hardcoded "weights" to compare different resource types; that may not match your local needs or factory desires, so remember you can always disable a recipe if the solver's stuck on it and you don't want to use it)

Yeah, Modeller and sftools are fundamentally very different apps

sftools is a solver/calculator; Modeller is a planner/modeller