math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

300 gas per 1000 crystal and 1000 silica

pretty good deal

[hushed silo]

maxing what specificaly u mean, maxing uranium and fisconium definately have nitrogen leftover

[wind spade]

"maxed map" = processing as much as possible from all the raw resources

usually the goal is producing sink points or something like that

[hushed silo]

hmmm

i might start using nitrogen more then

[vapid gorge]

its one of the 'trash' resources imo - plentifuil without much use

limestone, iron, N gas.

so much on the map

[hushed silo]

by this logic sulfur is pretty meh too

if not worse

[vapid gorge]

it is 🙂

but the random othe rrecipes that use it CHUG sulfur to output basic ingots

at not great rates.

while you only need like 300 gas for 1000 crystal and 1000 silica xD

[hushed silo]

that is crazy when u put it like that

so i woudltn call it trash

[vapid gorge]

ah, it's useful
but there's such an excess of it you use it like it's garbage.

just spray it everywhere

spend it like candy

like Copper Alloy recipe?
basically converts Iron to Copper at zero cost. AMAZING. Chug that iron ore like it's infinite

[hushed silo]

cooper alloy in its own regard is a no brainer

[vapid gorge]

because iron is so common 😄

and it outputs almost as much copper as pure copper w/o tons of refineries

I mean sometimes you'll also need all the iron nearby for a factory too , so maybe pure copper would be better in that situation? but I'd probably import more iron at that point

[hushed silo]

bro limestone is trash

[hushed silo]

do agree with that 1 for sure

[vapid gorge]

but you can use it to pad out Steel Pipes, Steel Beams, Cheap silica. Versatile

[hushed silo]

those would be main uses ngl

however

cloudy diamonds do exist

[vapid gorge]

oh sure - though personally my hatred of particle accelerators outweighs everything and Pink Diamonds forever

but that's my bias

[hushed silo]

hatred for ultiamte fidget spinner?

why

i always like water extractor brrrrrr or particle accelerator ziuuuuuuuuuu

[vapid gorge]

they are just so huuuuge

[hushed silo]

well thankfuly they arent as big as irl ones then

[vapid gorge]

like my hatred of train stations and refineries. Just so awkward to design pretty things around

[vapid gorge]

If I could just build 1 large underground PA for all my needs in this game I would do that isntead 😛

[hushed silo]

train stations yea i can see why im not a big fan myself HOWEVER WHACK REFINERIES YES

[vapid gorge]

Next game I'm going ot use the Modular Stations mod. Seems to be able to make many stations much more compact

[hushed silo]

modular train station looks good ngl

[vapid gorge]

<@&387163995947270144>

same account as a couple days ago I think?

at least same name

[steel knot]

Are there any guides/calculators for dark matter crystal/residue loops? I seem to recall something out there

[brisk urchin]

there is a general tool for any recepie calculations

i think its just called satisfsctory tool on google

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[brisk urchin]

my man 💘

[steel knot]

Yeah always a good one. I thought I remembered a post or article for scenarios for the 3 different alts

Was trying to get as close to closed loop as possible

I can’t set an option on satisfactory tools to “output exactly 0 dark matter residue” for example

Will just have to play with upping the number of DMCs created til it’s 0

[unique cypress]

it does that by default

unless it literally can't

extra DMR is just wasted resources

[steel knot]

no i have to specify DMC to get rid of the unsinkable gas

would love an option to optimize toward only sinkable byproducts

[unique cypress]

no byproduct 🤷‍♂️

[steel knot]

what are your input criteria

[unique cypress]

all alts and defaults, no SAM, no sulfur

[steel knot]

ahh maybe it's on a pane where i didnt have all the alts on

ah that was it. didn't have trap

[boreal hinge]

anybody want to join my world lol

[rich night]

Wrong channel go to looking for group

[coral valley]

can anyone tell me the easiest way to do this 😭 i have 6 foundrys making 45/min and then 2 are making 15.625/min

[limpid knot]

Some version of a manifold, tbh. One line feeding all output past both inputs, letting them buffer up.

[stoic gorge]

Im using 75 for a building. I will need another 100 for another project. I could set this to 175 and do a overflow smart splitter, but having in mind that my factory using the 75 is most likely not 100% efficient which is a more reliable way to get this 100p min isolated?

[gleaming rampart]

Is there a way to make the modeler show the actual in game behaviour and not this stupid made up stuff

[unique cypress]

this is actual in-game behaviour

[gleaming rampart]

why does it work properly then

[unique cypress]

because machines in the game have limited storage capacity, while the ones in modeler don't

you also should set modeler machines to 1 if you want to plan individual machiones

for some reason

because planning individual machines is usually best done in the game itself

[proven stone]

What is that program ?

[gleaming rampart]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

Steam

Satisfactory Modeler

Model your Satisfactory builds. Set up your machines however you like, adding optional limits to the number of any of those machines and the tool will calculate how the parts will flow and how many of each machine type are getting used.

This does advanced calculations that no other Satisfactory planning tool can do, including figuring out how s…

[stoic gorge]

what is the reason for these storages?

[unique cypress]

train platforms should be buffered with an ISC to maintain throughput

[proven stone]

thank you

[stoic gorge]

is it possible to make two trains, one that takes the first freight only, and other that takes the second only?

[proven stone]

maybe mix carriages on each so water on front and normal on back and vis versa

[stoic gorge]

I didnt get it tbh

[proper pier]

While it is possible for a train to only take the first freight only, it is not possible for a train to only take the second freight. Either combine the trains into one for both freight or make the stations seperate.

[wind spade]

Have two engines

[hushed silo]

modeler isnt realy designed to do that what ure doing here

[shadow sinew]

you can use dark matter crystalization and sink it

or ship the dark matter crystals somewhere else they are needed

[stoic gorge]

thank you

is battery worth using in drones?

[vapid gorge]

depends - personally I just use whatever fuel I happen to be making, then use plutonium rods

sadly batteries lost a lot of relevance when they introduced drones being able to use other fuels

[crimson moat]

First train loco-cart-loco (or just loco-cart)

second train loco-loco-cart

[hushed silo]

batteries useless?

[stoic gorge]

genius

[crimson moat]

They're not better and they're less versatile (for example they can't power the jetpack while rocket fuel can), so there isn't much reason to build them

[stoic gorge]

wait so thats kinda game changer for me, so the trains will never be 100% efficient, because when its loading the conveyors stops, but if you use the ISC it can actually be 100%?

[crimson moat]

yes

[stoic gorge]

damnn

how didnt I knew this before

[crimson moat]

you can get throughput reliably over 1 belt per cart, and you can reliably drain a single input belt of any speed into the train (with a direct connection, it would lock and back up).

the total cart throughput with 2 belts and a buffer will be somewhere between 1 and 2 belts depending on the stack size

make sure to enable the "leave when full" option for best throughput, as it reduces unneccesary dockings which lock your belts.

I generally just stick to 1 belt per cart as it's an easy and consistent number which always works with some margin. 1 belt into the ISC, 2 belts between ISC and station. If the ISC is filling up, put another train on the route.

[unique cypress]

it will never reach 2 full belts of throughput per platform but the buffers will allow you to get closer

And they basically guarantee having at least 1 belt of throughput

[cedar folio]

It would be possible for a train to only take the 2nd cargo if someone wanted. Either with 2 engines or filling the 1st car with some other cargo and never unloading it.

[stoic gorge]

you only need it on input too right? Or output too?

[crimson moat]

You need it on both sides

1 belt (input) <> isc <> 2 belt <> station <> 2 belt <> isc <> 1 belt (output)

[stoic gorge]

so output should look like this right

[crimson moat]

by using 2 belts as input you can increase throughput per cart by another 10-80% or so, but it varies based on stack size and you can have problems like one of the input belts forcing the other one to back up etc if you're not careful. The 1 belt input, 2 belts between ISC station, 1 belt output thing is just very easy.

[stoic gorge]

ok ok thank you

[hushed silo]

25% more CATerium

[unique cypress]

1. that's not how percentages work (leached makes 33% more than pure)
2. at the cost of 0.8 sulfur per ingot so I wouldn't call that worth it but you do you

[stoic gorge]

wait guys, this is only needed when you use train directly from the miner? @unique cypress @crimson moat

[unique cypress]

No, it's always useful
It's especially important when it comes from a miner, but it's best to do this on all platforms

[hushed silo]

then like its even better

[crimson moat]

pure makes 25% less, leached makes 33% more

positive and negative percentages, an extremely common misunderstanding 😄

They are different because they are working from a different starting number. The gain is from the smaller number, and the loss is from the larger one.

33.33% of 75 is the same number as 25.00% of 100.

so if you do 100% minus [25% of 100] you get to 75.

75 plus [33.333% of 75], you're back at 100.

the [] is equal to 25 in both cases

[hushed silo]

tbf i mainly looked at what sulfur can be used for except uranium and rf and maxing caterium seems good

[crimson moat]

It's not the worst, but i regret doing it a little. Excess caterium is basically useless. Excess sulfur can make more RF and make number go up more

anywhere that you can make leached caterium you can make pure, because they both need water.

I would maybe say caterium wire, but iron wire has already stolen that job of making wire not cost copper, and iron is even more extra-prevelant than caterium.

Then again, you can dump excess iron+limestone into HMF for sink points which probably gives more than quickwire

[hushed silo]

well if instant scrap was any better...

[vapid gorge]

just not much use no

[kind hare]

?

[versed violet]

Save, then poke it with a stick

[gleaming rampart]

What is Satisfactory modeler meant for then if not modeling your factory. I thought the idea with it is that you put your whole factory there and then you have an easy database to see how much of what you are making.

[hushed silo]

u can do that but u will have to do alot of manual labor of assigning numbers to each object ur putting there, but what numbers ure putting u have to know urself by taking them from game or wiki

its good overall for designing a production chain the the way u want it to go and gives u good control over it sure but one part of the process is an object in itself, like u have one recipe selected and it shows how much machines u will need to run the wanted out/input

if u want to lay down each machine hand by hand and every splitter ive seen some other program for it but it gets laggy with big builds

i bet it could be done with the modeler what u were trying to do but it would take alot of time and effort and it doesnt sort itself out

id have to find it tho

[frosty owl]

There's many ways to do one thing and you're choosing pretty much the most laborious one there is xD
Eg: given a factory making Iron Rods, you can represent it (in Modeler) by:

1. Creating one node for each individual machine (eg: 5 nodes making Ingots, 5 more making Rods)
2. Creating one node for each production (eg: one node making ingots and one node making Rods; each node will have however many machines it needs inside)

Creating one node per machine, kinda like what you're doing, obviously scales up very badly and requires huge amounts of work to represent factories

[wind spade]

and in Tools you can just select rods 😄

[frosty owl]

And you can "select Rods" 5 times in there too 😅

[gleaming rampart]

Im not choosing anything just uninformed lol. I was having a lot of fun building everything i had into modeler so the amount of work is not an issue. Is there a list of these kind of softwares so i could try them all. I did find the modeler to be really poorly optimized. For example my screenshot, so 14 nodes and 13 connections. If i changed something it would take multiple seconds to calculate it, its only like 26 calculations. I dont understand how thats possible.

[frosty owl]

Depends on how you're using it. Connecting multiple splitters in full simulation mode usually ends up in laggy results iirc (avoiding the use of splitters for the same production nodes leads to a faster calculation).
If you just want to "draw" a factory, you should probably use the "manual" simulation mode; or just check out the simulation modes, read their descriptions and try the one that seems to fit your need the most (they are all described inside the software).
For a list of tools, you can for some or hit Google for more as there's quite the plentiful choice...

[hushed silo]

Sati Tools
Modeler
Sati Production Planner
SCIM

[frosty owl]

Scratch the last one, we're talking planners not maps now

[unique cypress]

I mean SCIM does have a calculator (it's right in the name). It's just that it's so bad that you're better off asking an AI to do the math for you

[hushed silo]

if one is better asking AI you know its serious

[frosty owl]

If a calculator can output outright wrong results, it has what it takes to make me greatly displeased

[unique cypress]

idk what's going on with power calculations lmao

I asked both Tools and SCIM for 1 MF/min, all defaults. added iron ore as input to SCIM so it doesn't use power to mine it.

SCIM says I need 22 MW, Tools - 17.312.

Meanwhile, I get 20.2 MW for machines at 100% clock speed (and idling), and 15.185 for machines underclocked appropriately (for 100% uptime). you need <1 machine for each stage, so there's no difference between underclocking one and underclocking all

ok, my bad, Tools is correct for underclocking

well, after fixing the mistake, I got 17.313 MW but 0.001 MW is no difference

but I still don't know what's going on with SCIM 😆

[frosty owl]

Unsatisfactory magic

[stoic gorge]

plutonium or uranium for nuclear power?

[wind spade]

why not both?

[dusky dust]

You've got four options for nuclear:

1. Make Uranium Rods > Burn Them > Store the Uranium Waste forever
2. Make U Rods > Burn Them > Convert the U Waste to Plutonium Rods > Sink the Pu Rods (for a "clean" nuclear option)
3. Make U Rods > Burn Them > Convert U Waste to Pu Rods > Burn Them > Store the Plutonium Waste forever
4. Make U Rods > Burn Them > Convert U Waste to Pu Rods > Burn Them > Convert Pu Waste to Ficsonium Rods > Burn Them (for another "clean" option; Ficsonium produces no waste)

Once you get past Uranium Fuel Rods, the only other product which is sinkable is Plutonium Fuel Rods. Plutonium waste accumulates much more slowly than Uranium waste, so folks storing waste often prefer that. Ficsonium itself is quite resource-expensive (particularly SAM) and doesn't produce much extra power. But if you want the extra power from Plutonium and still want "clean" nuclear, that's the option. :)

[stoic gorge]

ok so basically, If I want to use plutonium I either have to store it forever, or use ficsonium which is not very worth?

[dusky dust]

"Worthiness" is in the eye of the beholder. You'll have to make your own choice about it. :D

Personally I think Ficsonium's well worth it, so long as you're not doing so large a nuclear buildout that you literally exhaust the world's SAM supply

But waste storage also isn't really a big deal, so just storing Plutonium Waste is entirely viable

Honestly any of the options are viable. #1 would run into some scaling issues as you get bigger, since Uranium waste accumulates so much more quickly, but for a smaller nuclear buildout it'd be fine

And of course you can always store waste for now and then later decide to process it

[stoic gorge]

damn these late game recipes are crazy, not even making that much resources

[stoic gorge]

ok ok

personally storing it doesnt seems good for me so I ll probably sink Pu rods for now and maybe in the future use ficsonium

[dusky dust]

Keep in mind that you generate waste at a predictable rate, and you know (or can easily figure out) how much waste can fit in a single ISC. (Which means you can also easily figure out how much "time" a single ISC gets you.) A few minutes in the blueprinter and you can get yourself an ISC Matrix capable of giving you N hours of gametime... Especially with Plutonium, it's not hard to set up a waste storage site which gives you literally hundreds of hours of playtime

(And even if you start approching that hundreds-of-hours limit, you can always just go slap down some more of those blueprints)

[unique cypress]

It's also important to mention that burning Plutonium rods is not the only way to make them "useful". They can also be used as fuel in drones and vehicles, and the rods last a really long time

[dusky dust]

Yeah, if you're sinking the Pu rods anyway and don't mind irradiating some drone/vehicle sites, they make great fuels for those

[muted glade]

the turbo blend fuel alternate recipe is going make me OD on dopamine

600 Oil + 300 Suflur + 100 Nitric Acid = 60,000MW
absolute peak

[dim nova]

splitter/merger manifold design is my favorite puzzle game

wait i have 60 leftover here

[wind spade]

looks too complicated to be a manifold 🤔

[dim nova]

i may not have terminologied right

but i got the numbers right at least!

(i hope...)

[wind spade]

you could've done actual manifold and have it 100 times easier 😄

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[dim nova]

oh yeah i could do that but i wanted my numbers to all be lined up cuz... idk i felt like it

[wind spade]

fair, just a suggestion 😉

[dim nova]

oh thats how i normally build ik

but i wanted it to be all even i guess

[vagrant lynx]

If i need 240 iron ingot/min. And I have a mk2 miner and mk3 belts. How much do I need to overclock on a pure node

[kindred sky]

Pure nodes makes 120/min with Mk 1. Mk2 is double so it makes 240/min. No need to overclock

[vagrant lynx]

Oh ok bet

[wind spade]

You can also just build the miner and see

[hushed silo]

i think even 100 is an understatement

[agile junco]

Not horrible, but I'm using more power than I anticipated somewhere.

Average 30GW.

Net 35GW tho

[vagrant lynx]

I prefer to plan some things out before doing that.

[vapid gorge]

Clock your machines and all you have to do to load balance is split things in 2

[dawn quartz]

when transporting stuff via train, how do i know how many freight cars to use?
I dont want my factory to run out while the train is making its trip AND i want the place that sends the materials to consistently output on the trainexactly how much i need
(i need like 1050 items/ minute)

[thorny onyx]

The train station should show you the throughput of one freight car

(Might have to let it go around once first)

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch tutorial:train throughput

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=tutorial:train+throughput

[dawn quartz]

ty

[wind spade]

Well you can dismantle it afterwards

[lofty ermine]

How do people usually do a sorting machine for storage ? I have my sorter setup how I always do it but I have not played since 1.0 release and now for some reason running a conveyor belt train for the output of the storage to go up to the assemblers only picks up the first 4 storage boxes. I have thought about having 1 programable splitter for a set of 4 storage boxes and then running a migrator to connect 2x sets of 4's but I don't have the room for that and would need to reorganize my whole setup for it to even work would be another question and then would have to work for 39 industrial storage containers.

[wind spade]

I usually don't sort storage 🙂 mostly I'd use depots so that I don't need to have storage, and if I'll have storage, I'd have separate belts for separate items

[pastel obsidian]

Normally just a smart splitter for each. A sink at the end. You can half the splitters if you want to be clever.

[lofty ermine]

So guessing u use smart splitter for each and turn off the ones that you don't need ?

[pastel obsidian]

Filter plates to the right and overflow goes to the next splitter

Or something like that

[fickle wharf]

whats the current actual max for pipes? I know they changed something a while back to make it more accurate or something

[unique cypress]

600/min? like it's been for years

[fickle wharf]

600 is what it says but reaching that in the past caused issues

[unique cypress]

haven't had issues since U6 at least

[thorny onyx]

What's up with these weird numbers.......

[unique cypress]

it's just because the crafting time is 64s

change clock speed and the numbers will be different

or build multiple machines

[dusky dust]

Expanding on that, btw, the "per-minute" numbers for all this stuff are technically kind of lies, even though that's often the most convenient way to think about 'em. The recipes themselves are just defined by the cycle time (64s in this case), and the individual amount of material which is consumed/produced at each one of those cycles

The per-minute values are just computed based on those, and sometimes you end up with situations like that

(That's also often related to some fluid behavior as well; the machines aren't consuming a steady rate, they're taking big chunks all at once, per the cycle times)

[wind spade]

Only if you build wrong

[oblique hollow]

getting 600 after a merge is easy, but keeping 600/min consistent after a split is where the "built wrong" part comes in

general rule: try to have even splits while near the 600/min limit.
only once you have split it and now have pipes that dont flow near the 600/min limit can you consider more complex splits

and always use mk 1 pipes when you dont actually need more than 300/min flow, even after a split

[stoic gorge]

my train is doing this route, why???

this only started happening when I added this station

bro why trains have to be such a pain

400 hours in this game and its my biggest struggle

[oblique hollow]

its doing that route to turn around or what?

[stoic gorge]

yes

but its turning around without unloading

[oblique hollow]

is the second station even on its timetable

[stoic gorge]

yes

[oblique hollow]

remove the second track around and see what it does

[stoic gorge]

it was working fine before

[oblique hollow]

if it says "unreachable" then the track connections are messed up

[stoic gorge]

wait I thought of something

I just dismantled and rebuilt it and it worked

[shadow sinew]

you can just do what everyone does and pour in all the resources and wait for the manifolds to fill up

also happen to have just automated rcas, and while the factory is only at a fraction of what will be it´s final size, activating it plus all the now non backed up imputs has made me do some load shedding xd

I´m waiting for the mk3 designer to build my nuclear setup, the fact you can´t fit 2 rows of assemblers in a mk2 by a little is criminal

[muted glade]

we love thermal rockets guys!

[lunar siren]

Just lowkey keep your machines active for half of those resources since the beginning of the game
Then make up more assemblers and link things together!

[sharp kettle]

Will trains be a good way of fueling reactors?
3 uranium fuel rods per min
also how many can i fuel

[naive wolf]

6-7

[sharp kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/kasane-teto-teto-omni-man-invincible-nolan-grayson-gif-5552031498261781508

[shadow sinew]

you do need to make 100% sure the trains will always be on time and not get stuck to prevent a meltdown

[sharp kettle]

fym a melt down

how can lack of fuel cause a melt down

[shadow sinew]

well, it can cause a blackout, but depending on the failure mode it can also disrupt plutonium production leading to a backup, which for nuclear we can call a meltdown for fun

[sharp kettle]

oh

for now im pretty sure im safe

this is like 6 factories plus one mega factory

...

[shadow sinew]

you do still need to make sure all critical imputs are not interrupted

[sharp kettle]

alr

thats what im worst at 🔥

[shadow sinew]

for example if you are using the standard recipe for plutonium rods and bringing over heat sinks, if that train get´s stuck and you take too long to fix it (you prob do have a while but still limited time), the plutonium pellets will backup and cause a meltdown

chose that item because unless you have both your aluminum factory and nuclear setup on the swamp, it´s almost certain you train over aluminum derived stuff

but really, every single item going into nuclear must be secured against issues, and should also have high priority on your priority switches

[pastel obsidian]

You can drones also work really well

[sharp kettle]

honestly yeah

[west saddle]

what those two numbers in the interactive map mean? thanks!

[versed mango]

Or a train just for the nuclear

[sand epoch]

Guessing used?

[west saddle]

I think it's 27 grabbed out of 51 spawned by what I've explored, but I just wanted to confirm it

[sand epoch]

They dont "spawn" they all exist

They are not fauna

[pastel obsidian]

A lot of things are loaded when your explore the map for the first time that aren't a part of the save

[agile junco]

This is as close as my consumption and max consumption have been in quite a while.

[thorny onyx]

The curse

[west saddle]

yup, that's what I meant

[half frigate]

Would it be better to use 2 mk3 miners on normal coal nodes or 3 mk3 miners on 2 normal and 1 impure for 80-100 coal plants

[vapid gorge]

it makes so little difference in power any effort you made to think of and type out this question has outweight any benefit possible 😛

[half frigate]

Uh, thanks

[vapid gorge]

also if you have mk3 miners should probably start moving on to nuclear. Or at least some fuel plant

[half frigate]

Oh I am

I have 100 fuel gens down on rocket fuel, i have around 30 coal plants active and im working on 250 reactors

[vapid gorge]

why make another 100 coal plants then?

[half frigate]

Cause I can and I want to? I mean, its my world and I honestly just love placing power plants down and making them work

[vapid gorge]

fair enough. "Cause I wanna" isn't really something you can argue against 🙂

[half frigate]

Plus my Bf always tells me to go for the max anyways. I wont argue, its fun.

[vapid gorge]

I mean yeah if you're having fun doing it do it.

if you just wanted power I'd say just aim for the nuclear, but 'I wanna' trumps that

[half frigate]

Fair enough

[grand moth]

Does anyone have the formula for turbo fuel?

[unique cypress]

Formula for what?

The recipe? How much a fuel gen consumes? Its MJ/m³ value?

[grand moth]

How much each refinery needs in terms of fuel and compacted coal to produce turbo fuel and to figure out how many generators I need. I have a fuel pump producing 900/m3 of crude to start

[unique cypress]

If you're willing to spend 900 oil, you might as well just do regular fuel. That's 30 GW. With turbo, it'd be 66.6, but a) I doubt you need that much in phase 3 and b) it'd require 1600 coal and sulfur, which I suspect are more of a limiting factor than the oil

Fuel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=gjvmLc9zJCkuecQds2lv

Turbofuel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=8PFH5egw38EIh3PmtfIz

[grand moth]

Thanks, it’s actually not. I have a train dropping off 2 cars full of coal from 8 assemblers producing it. So it’s about 200 per minute produced

[hushed silo]

i think aim for fuel and upgrade to diluted asap

efficiency wise its incredible and easy

[grand moth]

Diluted is an upgrade? Please explain

[grim wind]

you get double the fuel from the same amount of oil by adding water into the production line

that plus other recipes, like the Heavy Oil Residue means you can get even more from the same base oil input

[dusky dust]

Yeah, using the HOR and Diluted (packaged or otherwise) alts, I believe you get 2.666x the crude oil as Fuel, which is a pretty major upgrade

[deft lichen]

that's true, but the base cost isn't 1, so this number is just a bit odd for comparison
to make 120 fuel, the cost changes from 180 to 45, so it's 4x cheaper to produce (the same oil makes 4x the fuel, not 2.667x as this might suggest)

[dusky dust]

Oh, sure, really depends on how you like to look at it. I nearly always think about it in terms of "absolute" resource efficiency, rather than comparing chains with each other. Maybe the other way of thinking about it is more useful; my brain's always just defaulted to thinking in those terms

I'm willing to accept that my native way of thinking about it might be odd. :D

[lusty summit]

There is a slight incline going up to the coal gens. but i have a water pump in the middle of the line

[vapid gorge]

3x coal gens use 3x45 water, 1x water extractor only makes 120

[lusty summit]

Yea i figured that so i assumed my problem would be resloved by turning off the 3rd gen. so only 2 of them are on

[vapid gorge]

from this angle it's tough to tell if the pump is low enough

are your 2 gens that are still on still getting enough water?

[pastel obsidian]

Are they connected to the grid

[lusty summit]

Yea . my apologies i just checked all the pipes and they're full now. (my concern was that my pipes were not full when my water production was more than consumption) So im guessing it takes a bit of time before the pipes back fill ?

[vapid gorge]

pipes have volumes yes

also are you in the grassy fields?

[lusty summit]

The map all the way on the left

I think its the greeen first one

For beginners Like me

How do i INCREASE my FLOW RATE to MAAXXX!!

[vapid gorge]

? you just need to put 300 in but your pipes are super messy

my recommendation is go North north west and find the lake with 4 coal nodes, then make groups of 8 gens

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

like this
always keep your pipes neat and tidy

[lusty summit]

Did you send that link or a bot? Thats crazy

[vapid gorge]

that link is just a wiki link, and conveniently there's a diagram of convenient coal gen layouts

and there's command to link wiki pages to chats

[lusty summit]

what do you mean i need to put "300" in???? 300 water production?

[vapid gorge]

if you want max flow in a mk1 pipe, it's max throughput is 300 pm. You'll need a system that runs on 300pm too

[lusty summit]

what is "throughput"
Im sorry for all these noob questions

[vapid gorge]

amount of stuff a belt of pipe can move

for example a mk1 belt has a belt limit of 60 parts per min

so it has a max throughput of 60pm

[lusty summit]

so when you say i need a system that runs on 300, that means i need more water extractors to produce that much or more?

[vapid gorge]

ok you asked "How do i INCREASE my FLOW RATE to MAAXXX!!"

in a mk1 pipe, it can move, at most, 300 fluid pm

if you want something to run at that you need to both produce 300 fluid pm, and a system that will use 300 fluid pm

otherwise if you're only consuming say 100 fluid pm, the flow rate will be 100 pm no matter how much you're pumping

[lusty summit]

ok ok ok that makes more sense

THank you for dis explanaition ❤️

[vapid gorge]

no stress. But go find those nodes and look at the diagrams. Keep piping neat and tidy

[lusty summit]

How do i make tall vertical pipes. Im still practicing to make my stuff organized. I like being ocd

[vapid gorge]

use foundations and walls to run straight pipes along and up. Then it's just pumps

[lusty summit]

then i would delete the foundations?

[vapid gorge]

well, you need those foundations to line things up

[lusty summit]

I appreciate all your help friend

[vapid gorge]

huh?

[hazy mantle]

How many do I need to produce turbo motor and super computer for a good rate

[vapid gorge]

entirely up to you

you're going up the tiers, make a handful pm and let it build up

[hazy mantle]

Yes but a minimal 2/4min it is enough

[shadow sinew]

meanwhile I´m going for 100-150 xd

[hushed silo]

i dont even think u need to automate turbo motor

and even then 2/m is generous

[vapid gorge]

sure

you need a fair few of them for miners and you'll need a few for space parts so yeah automating them is useful

[spare kernel]

Can somebody help me troubleshoot my Nuclear Power Plant in voice chat, im starting to loose my sanity

[vapid gorge]

make a post in #1038092680493801533

[agile junco]

Wait, do I really need like 100-150 batteries to make sure my ionized fuel plant can cold start itself.

Power shards are HUNGRY.

[oblique hollow]

if you have no fluid left in any pipe and no items on any belts, maybe?

[unique cypress]

they take more power to make than you can get from converting rocket fuel to ionized fuel 🙃

[agile junco]

Yea, but I wanted Singularity cells and I also wanted an automated supply of power shards, so I decided to do it this way.

It was never really a permanent solution, tbh.

I didn't do a lot of design work making it look too nice, just got the math right so I'd have some extra of both shards and packaged ionized fuel for personal use.

Will drones be smart and swap fuel types if you manually supply one side which doesn't have fuel inputs but the other side uses another type?

I assume no

Like the logic will be, hey I still have 1 unit of ionized fuel, let's try using that even though I wont have enough to return.

Instead of topping off on fuel every time regardless of type.

[agile junco]

Will it be enough, IDK

Supplies come in every 4min or so... that's 3 trips. 120 power shards, not fully load balanced. I really don't know if that would start up cold or not.

[agile junco]

I actually have to think what the math for this would be, and it depends on if the production line is full or not. Or what part was depleted...

Bumped it up to 18.85 min though, my gut tells me that's enough.

The key is to disconnect all these batteries once they are charged 😛

[wind spade]

*power storages 😉

[marble mural]

If I want to break even for rotor assembly, is 8 rod constructors and 15 screws constructors the correct answer?

[wind spade]

(there are tools to use to check that)

[agile junco]

Funny I litterally renamed my BP before I read this.

[vagrant lynx]

Any of these alt recipes worth taking or should I reroll some?

Better picture of the recipes I've found

[unique cypress]

Put dots next to the ones I'd want

though that doesn't mean those are the ones you should take

except heavy encased frame. that's a must-have for everyone imo

[vagrant lynx]

Any particular reason why?

[unique cypress]

half the price and effort compared to default HMF

[vagrant lynx]

Ah ok

Is there am established setup for fuel gens? Like there is for coalgens?

[wind spade]

"worth" depends on you only 😉

[vapid gorge]

no, there's a lot more flexibility as there's multiple recipe combos and amounts you can create

[wind spade]

even for HEF it heavily depends on your preferences

[pastel obsidian]

Half the resources and also about half the space needed as well

[wind spade]

*assuming one specific setup and comparing it with one other specific setup while completely ignoring everything else around it

[pastel obsidian]

You use the same recipes for both, just pick your favorite screw recipe if you went with stitched iron plate.

[wind spade]

exactly, so ignoring other options and ignoring other HMF alts

[hushed silo]

"Can you beat Satisfactory using worst alts"?

[pastel obsidian]

bio coal powered power plants.......

[hushed silo]

okay bro thats a bit too much dont you think 🗿

[wind spade]

well, you'd have to first define what "worst alts" are, because everyone has different opinions on that

[pastel obsidian]

Compacted Steel Ingot \

[hushed silo]

i think you are into it lol

[wind spade]

what's wrong with that lol

[hushed silo]

yea exactly, there arent bad answers, and if there are there are only a few

[wind spade]

there aren't

not unless you specify what "worst" means

[pastel obsidian]

this sounds like a Jordan Peterson debate

[hushed silo]

chat gpt now rephrase that argument and make it like Jordan Peterson would say it in one of his debates

[pastel obsidian]

We need need ask GROK lol

[hushed silo]

i think there are some that are just way out of proportion compared to others
and by that i mean resources used and efficiency

[vapid gorge]

I don't think anyone in this chat is high on benzos and their own ego

[vapid gorge]

people will have wildly different build styles and values on resources

like, I'll never use Electrode Circuit boards, but it's a fine recipe for people?

I just tend to build in too large a volumes and need other things anyway so it's not a good pat hfor me

[pastel obsidian]

People love to horde sulfur NGL

[wind spade]

well yeah, once you start talking about resource efficiency, then some recipes become "worse" (or to be more exact - they are less used in chains to make things, it's never about single recipe, it's always about chains), but that already means you've specified you care about resource efficiency, which is not just generic "bad" 🙂

[hushed silo]

ik but i dont think anyone should ever touch smth as dark ion fuel

[wind spade]

why so?

[hushed silo]

it just uses so much rocket fuel compared to normal one

[vapid gorge]

saves a ton of work though on having to make shards

[hushed silo]

hmmmm if you wouldnt want to autoamte shards and have just a few for urself

[unique cypress]

It's not terrible if you're making like 10/min for the jetpack

Then it's just SAM, alu tanks and RF

[vapid gorge]

yeah these are all options. Maybe you already have a Ion fuel site using teh shards you're making but you want to make more somewhere else?

[hushed silo]

well

challenge is over then

unless id find a way to rephrase it properly and derive from soemthing as "make it as annoying on urself as possible"

[vapid gorge]

as a trait for possible recipes? you could make any system extremely obnoxious w/o weird recipe choices xD

[hushed silo]

i liked that compacted steel ingot

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, I'd never use it xD but if you have compacted coal as waste and need steel in a spot... ?

I would probably just not have waste compact coal in teh first place tbh

[unique cypress]

Then dark ion is perfect for that if we consider using it for power 😆
You get less power from it than the RF you put in. And that's not even considering the power costs of making it. So not even augmenters can make it net positive, unlike default ionized

[hushed silo]

thats devilish

[vagrant lynx]

Ive got 1200/min oil what should I build utilizing that for fuel gens

And should I go into diluted packaged fuel

[pastel obsidian]

Depends on if you want to wait for blended or not

[vapid gorge]

Combine diluted packaged fuel with Heavy Oil Residue alt and that's an ass ton of power

[unique cypress]

It's 40 GW with HOR + DPF

[ancient inlet]

How would i accomplish this

[unique cypress]

A manifold```
-S-S-S-S-S
| | | | |

[agile junco]

A manifold is the best option yes. But this works if you really want it:

[vapid gorge]

same as this but with a 5th machine https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1407002332239237210/1407004901015294013/image.png?ex=6948a9ad&is=6947582d&hm=0fbac3d08494c0625ca5993a57f238adf0b5d011a5197aa67c5c7b37d61f8767&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=418&height=350

[ancient inlet]

wouldn't that cause the input to halve each time?

[limpid knot]

Until it fills up. It's a slow start, but when it's been on a few minutes, it's humming and getting topped up.

[ancient inlet]

Yeah nah I'm using the one @agile junco made

[agile junco]

I mean if you really want to. I would always just use a manifold unless it's a special situation, but to each their own.

[vapid gorge]

so just a heads up, trying to load balance systems will get exponentially more complicated with more planning involved for every step you need in a system

If you enjoy it? go for it
but manifolds do the same job

[leaden arch]

manifolds are much easier to build and take up a lot less space

[unique cypress]

No because machines aren't infinite sinks and if they consume 10/min, then that's how much they take from the belt. So the splitter will be quite incapable of splitting in half, because the machine cannot take 25/min

[agile junco]

Every now and then after I've built out a manifold, if I notice I have a little extra space and things are really slow, I'll add a splitter and cut the manifold in half.

[vagrant lynx]

So hunt for HOR alt. Got it

[agile junco]

Is there a blog or wiki somewhere showing the break even point for Alien Power Matrix net power?

[crimson moat]

wiki.gg, it works on gross power though

Alien Power Matrixes are typically a late-game item. Creating a sufficient rate to saturate one APA requires a lot of power for the production line. Typically, around 12,000 MW of energy is necessary for five Alien Power Matrixes per minute (assuming you produce 2.5/minute using vanilla recipes and put Somersloops in the final Quantum Encoder). Given that providing an APA with Alien Power Matrixes only boosts the additional power of your base production to 30%, the additional 20% of energy generated should be greater than the 12,000 MW required to feed this power boost.

This calculation results in a minimum of 60,000 MW generator production to just break even.

in a rush to project discovery completion they don't really pay off because it takes a while to do and it's easier to work with less power or make more power another way, but if you're doing a worldscale build then they can pay off 20:1 on energy costs.

[crimson moat]

That actually slows down manifold warmup sadly

To warm up a manifold as quickly as possible, use smart splitters set to feed everything except overflow to their machine so that machines get filled one by one.

Either you split enough to function without buffers full, or you don't - and if you don't, more splitting means slower warmup.

[agile junco]

Oh convenient, I just made a 60GW plant.

[agile junco]

Ummmm I don't understand.

I had a row of refineries all waiting on power shards. They were filling up the first ones to 100 while the back ones starved. The issue is that the shards are coming from a drone, so they flow quickly, so splitting them causes more to reach the end and allow more generators of ionized fuel sooner, no?

[agile junco]

Isn't Any the same as just a regular splitter, how does this change the way the manifold works?

[crimson moat]

It increases the average amount of machines turned on during the warmup, but it makes the warmup take longer because of that.

[crimson moat]

Regular splitter sends 50% down the manifold and 50% to machine. Smart splitter sends 100% to machine, 0% down the manifold.

[agile junco]

I don't care how long it takes to get to 100 stacks, I care how soon all of them are running.

[crimson moat]

In which case you're making it slower, so use smart splitters to do the complete opposite of that (feed only one at a time until it's full, then the next one, then the next one)

[agile junco]

What are you talking about I'm so confused. Why would I want to send all of them to just one machine. That's the opposite of what my splitting trick does.

[crimson moat]

If you have anything manifolded, it won't consistently have all machines running unless almost all of the machine buffers are full, so you need to fill them.

Otherwise you're going to have a scenario like half of the machines are running all of the time, and the rest are flashing on and off.

[agile junco]

How is it slower? If I get 50 shards from the drone. Your method gives me one refinery. My method gives me 2 manifold each probably half utilized.

[crimson moat]

It takes more than twice as long to reach sustained operation when you cut the input in half, because a larger percentage of the input is wasted on running the machines which are turned on during the time period where others are still off.

The win condition for manifold warmup is that X amount of machines have full buffer, so they don't take more than their fair share of input.

X is the number of machines in that particular manifold, minus those fed by the last splitter.

Any partial splitting turns more machines on earlier, but that means that they are consuming input INSTEAD OF filling their buffers, so you're spending a lower % of the input on filling buffers and therefore they stay emptier for longer.

[agile junco]

Ultimately I don't care about their buffers I care about their uptime.

[crimson moat]

If you want all of the machines to reach sustained production in the least time, then you operate as few of them as possible during the warmup.

The more machines you operate during warmup, the longer the period of machines turning on and off and on and off.

[agile junco]

I want to get power back up as fast as possible.

Let's start with something we probably agree on.

[crimson moat]

If your power needs are significantly less than the manifold can provide (say, half of it), then partial splitting will do that sooner, at the cost of delaying full operation.

It averages out to the same amount of power produced in the end, but it spends more time at moderate power and less at low or full power. Basically, it gets stuck in a half-operational state for much longer.

[agile junco]

Given X power shards (my limiting factor in fuel production), I get Y MWh, no matter how quickly I get them. Right?

[crimson moat]

In the short term it's wrong, because power shards in machine buffers don't give power

and the amount of shards in buffers is not constant between approaches

[agile junco]

I'm not saying how long. I'm saying that they are all burnt.

"No matter how quickly"

[crimson moat]

If you skip into the future until manifold is fully warmed and then start recording data after that, yes.

But what i am saying is, you have to skip further into the future to get your full power output if you do a partial split. It's hurting that part, not helping.

[agile junco]

I'm just starting with basic statement. Which is that you don't lose power by the rate at which the manifold starts up.

[crimson moat]

You don't

[agile junco]

Ok good we agree on that.

[crimson moat]

Partial splitting reaches 50% power quickly, but takes a very long time to get to 100%.

Minimal splitting spends more time at say 10%, 20%, 30% power, but it scales through 50% to 80%, 90%, 100% in less time.

After X period of time, smart splitter approach has a higher sustained power output and the same average power output.

[agile junco]

So maybe I need to actually do out the math, but it's immediately obvious that if I get 50 shards and fill one buffer, then I will produce less power than if I use a normal manifold, or do my splitting thing.

Now, maybe you're correct that the time till max power is longer, but I don't see why.

[crimson moat]

The problem is that partial splitting produces more power now, but less power later (because those shards are not filling buffers, so they are delaying the warmup)

[agile junco]

But they all get burnt, so it's the same power.

Shards in buffers are the only ones not producing power.

[crimson moat]

If you look at power created after say 10 hours, yes. But the smart splitter approach has the steepest climb to 100% power output, while any partial splitting slows down the climb (but gives it a bigger kickstart at the beginning).

Splitting keeps up with average power output because the first seconds of operation are at a higher partial power. Say, 50% instead of 25% of design power.

Later on it's say 75% instead of 100%.

[agile junco]

But that's the opposite of what happens when N=50 as I've mentioned.

[crimson moat]

It's not

[agile junco]

So if what you are saying is true, then there's some point at which it crosses the line, and I don't see why.

[agile junco]

Yes it is

[crimson moat]

There is no point where it crosses, if any buffers must be full then smart splitter is ALWAYS reaching peak power in the least amount of time.

[agile junco]

50 shards in a buffer is obviously slower than 25 in 2, for example.

[crimson moat]

50+0 produces less power immediately, but warms faster so the sustained power level is higher than 25+0 and 25+0, which flickers on and off to have the same average.

[agile junco]

I feel like you are completely not listening to me.

[crimson moat]

ditto

Just go and measure it ingame like i did, it agrees with the math

your intuition is not serving you well here

[agile junco]

You cannot say it warms up faster always, and that it starts off slower. I'm asking when it reaches the point at which they are the same, and why.

So maybe you're missing the point about the drones.

[crimson moat]

It warms up faster because it generates less power while warming up.

It reaches the end state of sustained 100% design power after less time, but makes less power on the way, especially in the first half of the warmup.

It is a steeper ascent to max power

whereas anything that you do with partial splitting is gonna get stuck at middling power ranges for much longer

40 is bigger than 20, but 60 is smaller than 80

and 20+80=100, same as 40+60

[agile junco]

Right that makes sense, it could do that. I don't exactly understand why. But I'm trying to ask at what point the change in production is the same in each method, so I can understand better what's going on.

[agile junco]

But it's not steeper at the start! Because again if ai split I get more power sooner! So at least for a moment it's higher. Not to mention that the next drone will come in before any of them will run out.

[crimson moat]

The total amount of energy or part output is equal when both reach sustained 100% operation

Minimal splitting reaches 100% operation sooner than partial splitting, but generates less energy on the way there.

so the question is

are you happy with a manifold sitting at say 30-70% power for ages? Partial split works, and gets it to 30% fastest.

Do you only want to turn on your shit when it's reached 100%? Zero splitting, fill one machine at a time. This spends more time at 0-30% but less at 30-100%.

if you zoop into the future when manifold warmup time is irrelevant, they've both provided the same amount of overall energy and they both work at 100%

but if you are in the warmup time period, they do very different things

partial splitting gives you a bit of output now, whereas zero splitting gives you the shortest time lag to full output.

if a partial output, say 30% or 50% or 70% is not sufficient, then adding splits (short of enough splits to function without buffers at all) is actually making the problem worse rather than better because it will stay stuck at partial output for longer.

[agile junco]

This is a different statement that it warms up the fastest.

[crimson moat]

I define fastest warmup as in least time to reach design output.

[agile junco]

What I think you are saying is that the warmup time is nonlinear.

[crimson moat]

It is in both cases, but a different kind of nonlinear depending on the approach

[agile junco]

And I keep telling you I'm not talking about that. I'm concerned with the instantaneous rate of production.

Seems like you are further implying it's like a higher order polynomial than my approach because it starts slower, then gets faster.

[crimson moat]

If you're optimising for least time to reach 30% power, then the answer is different, but you should clearly specify that because it's an unusual goal.

[agile junco]

Not that strange if 30% is enough to power the production on it's fuel.

I'd love to understand better so I can work out the break even point.

[crimson moat]

it depends on the number of machines, the consumption of the recipe, the stack size of the item, the belt/pipe speed, the type of splitter and the way that you connect it, the % of machines that you need operational etc. Not an easy thing to calculate for odd cases

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill this is decent but doesn't have config for smart splitter fills, and you have to look carefully at the 100% fill time for X number of machines as 1-2 more on average will run downstream at that timestamp.

[agile junco]

This tool seems broken, with input of 1/min and 2 machines consuming 1/min, it says that 0 machines are running 100% efficiently.

[crimson moat]

Zero machines are running 100% efficiently if you use a regular splitter; that creates two at 50%.

[agile junco]

Oh, I forgot we're using regular splitters, sorry.

Got mixed up thinking about your thing.

[crimson moat]

In the case of 2 machines and input of half or less of design consumption, regular vs smart splitter have the same outputs and both have zero warm time. The only difference is that Smart (or no splitter) outputs it all from one machine whereas Regular gives half output from two each.

changes a lot when you have more machines

manifold calculations with too little input to ever reach full production are weird in general 😛

best to keep input >= consumption

Basically for manifold feeding, the area under the curve for output over time remains the same on a long enough timescale, but feeding to more machines has a flatter curve (more time hovering around, say 50%) and fewer machines has a steeper one (more time at/near 0% and 100%)

[agile junco]

So i put in a 25/min to 5 and a 50/min to 10. The split one is faster according to this.

[crimson moat]

are you actually using 10 machines?

[agile junco]

It's an example.

[crimson moat]

It's because you're not using the smart splitter on the 10, and because the number of machines in the 5 machine manifold is very low (only 3 have to be filled for full operation)

smart splitter time on 10 will be below 1hr

[agile junco]

Why does it need a lot more machines!? Surely if it's better it would be better for 10 and 5.

[crimson moat]

A 5-machine manifold operates at full power when it's 60% full. A 50-machine manifold only operates at full power when it's 96% full.

Filling to 60% is a lot easier than filling to 96%, because as you approach 100%, manifold consumption approaches input. It's a nasty nonlinear curve.

[agile junco]

That makes sense.

[crimson moat]

If you actually have ~10 machines then i would just make it 8 or 9 or 12 and add a few splitters. It takes seconds to do and saves an hour of warmup.

if you have 30 (much better case for a manifold) then the math looks very different because of that

[agile junco]

I have about 20

And a small overflow of like 1/min at the end.

[crimson moat]

If you have 20 and you need 6 to operate to feed themselves, you can feed it in 3 places and it will instantly average 6 machines online

it will just take longer to get all 20 going consistently because you're borrowing that power from later, you're not generating it for free.

[agile junco]

That's exactly what I'm doing and my entire point about the splitting thing.

Sure it takes longer to get to 100%, but it's faster to 60%.

[crimson moat]

also a complexity cost, because if you consider adding splitters and different inputs to be free then you could have it operate at 100% instantly

[agile junco]

It sucks watching one or two refineries filling a 100 buffer when my power storage is draining.

I mean, I didn't design the manifold for it. But it's super easy in many cases. I have a row of 10. Cut the manifold at #5 then turn the splitter and run a belt along side the original manifold.

Actually properly balancing is rarely so simple, but if you're ok with a partial balance (split manifold) it's the best of both worlds imo.

[crimson moat]

It could be sometimes

best specifically design for it though

for example if you want half power instantaneously you can group things into 4's and feed each group one belt

quarter power you can do 8's

[agile junco]

I mean, it's an error case for failure. No sense cluttering the build too much.

There are a lot of constraints in my builds. I didn't have arbitrary space.

And sure 3 clean rows would have been more elegant, but that would have geometry I didn't have room for, whereas 2 rows one long split row, and one short row worked.

Because I still needed space for the two overflow refineries, and the packager.

But you're making me think.

• If you use perfectly balanced inputs, you get instant 100% efficiency.
• If you use smart splitters to fill the manifold fastest, you get the slowest initial rate increase, but faster time to 100% than a normal manifold.
• If you do something in the middle of balancing and a normal manifold, you trade startup efficiency for still longer total time till 100%.

I feel like I need to actually do the math on this.

This shows it perfectly.

With one long manifold you get 4 at 100% off the bat, with a split, you get 2x3 at 100% off the bat.

But then if you look at the later times they catch up (keep in mind that the split machine numbers are for two machines each, so #8 is also #16). The 8th machine turns on about 5 min faster in the split method, but by the 15th, it's about 4 min slower.

As you split more, you increase that initial win (converging on a balancer at 100% right away).

[crimson moat]

Yes that's correct

Ideally generate some charts for specific machine numbers / recipies etc, but it's very easy to waste more time calculating how to do this slightly better than it would take to just split the materials fully or wait for warmup and go do something else. It's gonna end up being actually faster and easier 99% of the time to just eyeball it, do it and move on

personally i only use smart splitter for final stages, and just dumb splitters with a single input everywhere else i have manifolds (but i don't use manifolds a lot)

[agile junco]

But the cost is that if you don't perfectly balance, you trade off the total time to 100%, like @crimson moat was saying.

[agile junco]

Yep, I did this on a whim because it solved an immediate issue. I stand by it, but now I understand how it impacts the total time better.

[crimson moat]

good stuff :3

It is not the easiest thing to visualise or explain haha

[agile junco]

We were talking past each other a bit over initial rate vs total time till 100%.

Anyway enough spamming the channel. Thanks for pointing me to this though. I love the interesting mechanics and math in this game.

[vagrant lynx]

I have obtained heavy oil residue as an alt recipe, so now I should be good for making the huge fuel gen farm. Got 1200/min crude oil ready to pipe

[frosty owl]

Which is why I enjoy re-reading about it every time it comes up xD
As a side note: I realized that there is one other simple advantage in splitting a manifold in 2 (or more) manifolds that we might have overlooked ^^; specifically, how each additional manifold means 2 less machines that need filling before the system reaches 100%
Eg: a 10-machines manifold need to fill 8 machines, two 5-machines manifolds just need to fill 6.

[orchid brook]

Yayy i can officially say "I am using more then half of the copper on the map"

still havent started the project yet but i wanna know from exprince is this hard?

[vapid gorge]

your computer will have the hardest time on it. It'll run hard with that much going on on the map

[hushed silo]

504 refineries

dont get me wrong i respect the hustle

[orchid brook]

mehh its powerfull but that powerfull ya def

also how do i break this down? like i wanna make chunks of 900

[hushed silo]

then just divide by 3

every number here can be

[orchid brook]

i am talking about the final step

[wind spade]

change the Tools plan to make 900 and you'll have your answer

[orchid brook]

i did but it didnt work cuz i need a specfic number of plactic and rubber and i also wanna use the full 2700 oil

that is like the only way i got the website to know what i want, the real numbers are these

and if i just do these i am gone get decimals and ngl i aint dealling with decimals now

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=UG43UEdiemux5vI7VIIK

and keep doing chunks of that

imo it's much easier if you make dedicated factories that have a final output that is only plastic OR rubber. You can work from the output backwards without weird loop backs

[orchid brook]

the decimals and also i just found a way to make it work

i will do these steps in chunks and at the end do the other stpes gouped which are

[vapid gorge]

? what about decimals?

[orchid brook]

dont like them

[vapid gorge]

change the unit of time you measure things in then

[orchid brook]

? dont get it

[vapid gorge]

decimals are purely in your mind

if something is 1.333333 pm

then it's 4 per 3 minutes

[orchid brook]

and also i kinda forgot i have to get the alts sooo i am doing that rn

[orchid brook]

oh wait

[vapid gorge]

also, I really recomend you don't combine both the final rubber and final plastic systems together , but good luck with it

[orchid brook]

is it possible? yes easy? no.

[vapid gorge]

it's the same result but a ton more work and moer intertwined systems that are harder to trouble shoot

[orchid brook]

if it is really that defuclt i will try to re-plan the thing

but cant lie i aint seeing why it would be hard

[unique cypress]

It is easy though. The difference between a system that produces only plastic or rubber and a system that produces both is one smart splitter

[orchid brook]

wait what?

srry but i am kinda lost?

[unique cypress]

If you build like this, you can make any amount of rubber and/or plastic, as long as the total plastic and total rubber don't exceed one belt

And you want more than one belt, you just build several of these

The difference between this setup, which can produce both, and a setup that produces only one, is removing the smart splitter for the item that you're not producing.

And technically there's a way to do one setup that goes above belt capacity, but it requires a belt mixer with priority splitters and mergers. It's easier to just do multiple, all under one belt

[orchid brook]

this looks too easy

like whats the twist

?

[ancient inlet]

probably belt routing, materials for the factories, correct inputs, allat

[unique cypress]

It is easy

[orchid brook]

that is just normal stuff when building

[unique cypress]

That's the way I've been doing all my recycling loops

[orchid brook]

then i will do it

[unique cypress]

The only catch is that a smart splitter has 1 input. And using multiple smart splitters in a single setup doesn't work well. So all the rubber from the setup has to fit on one belt, and all the plastic on another. And not just the output, all plastic/rubber that's produced.

But the solution is simple, you just build multiple setups and only merge their outputs. Or leave them completely separate

[orchid brook]

i am just gone merge everything together

[unique cypress]

The one I sent is ratioed for 300 oil and equal recycling refineries (and therefore 5:4 output ratio) but you can change those freely and the setup still works perfectly (up to 1 belt capacity)

[orchid brook]

i wanna have belts of 100 and 50 cuz most of my factorys that will use the plactic and rubber will use these numbers

[faint oracle]

@unique cypress this is an example of the one im doing rn

I saw in early prjects that sometimes the middle ones will fill up while the rest are fully going through, like the middle belt having priority i guess

[unique cypress]

then that sounds like a belt that's not connected rather than any priority issue

[grand moth]

@orchid brook how did you make this workflow?

[vagrant lynx]

What ive got so far for my packaged diluted fuel. This is just the HOR portion. How many packages do I need for the diluted packaged fuel? And should I use the polymer to make the plastic ill need for empty canisters?

[wind spade]

20 per loop

[unique cypress]

when doing DPF, you should NOT use ANY splitters or mergers for the canisters. The ratio of packagers to refineries to unpackagers is 1:1:1. you can (and should) build closed loops that have one of each machine and loop the canisters back to the first one. then you only need like 20 canisters per loop, if it's compact enough

you can also blueprint the canisters so they get added automatically when you place the blueprint - no need to add them manually after

[vagrant lynx]

I just cant visualize it.

[unique cypress]

a packager, then a refinery, then another packager

[wind spade]

one refinery, two packagers. Belts connecting them in a loop. Canisters going around

[unique cypress]

all in a line

not side by side but one in front of the other

[vagrant lynx]

So i should space out my HOR refineries or are those fine ?

[unique cypress]

no, just pipe the HOR to the DPF refineries

[vagrant lynx]

OK so I can pipe all my HOR output into one pipe to go to where my dpf refineries are going to be?

[unique cypress]

depends how much HOR you have

2000 of course won't fit in one pipe

but it'll fit in multiple

[vagrant lynx]

10 refineries overclocked to 2x.

So 800 heavy oil residue?

[hard locust]

alr im not doing ficsonium

[mint sky]

not? cringe

[hard locust]

fine I'll do it

see you in 2 years

[mint sky]

ada will be mad if you dont

[versed stone]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-gif-24535420

[versed stone]

I only got the game yesterday and I learnt fast and thinking this will be a brease making it to tier 9 but um this, nah

[hard locust]

oh nono dont worry there is worse than that too

[versed stone]

What you mean dont worry

That makes it worse

[hard locust]

dont

worry.

[versed stone]

to late

[pastel obsidian]

no you just need a normal splitter

[unique cypress]

a normal splitter doesn't help with the fact that you're limited to 1 belt for a line of refineries

and the setup works better with a smart splitter

[pastel obsidian]

just have 1 Plastic feed 2 Rubber refineries
split one of the rubber in 1/2 to feed the plastic so you have 1.5 refineries of Rubber output, tile it if you like you just need to seed the first bit of plastic and rubber

[unique cypress]

that's not nearly as flexible tho

and my setup doesn't need prefilling

plus the refineries are just in rows, so I'd say it's easier to build

[pastel obsidian]

Setting the smart splitter takes the same amount of time regardless.

[unique cypress]

a smart splitter is needed because the split is not in half. and because you want the refineries to fill before outputting anything

[pastel obsidian]

Plenty of ways to do it you want to to make sure you have enough to make the seed rubber a splitter is more than enough for the job

[unique cypress]

I am talking about a setup that doesn't pair refineries 2:1

[pastel obsidian]

You can use blueprints to prefill it for you so it's just click and connect

[pastel obsidian]

What do you mean

[unique cypress]

a setup that produces both plastic and rubber as output doesn't have a 2:1 ratio

[pastel obsidian]

this setup only makes rubber or plastic

[unique cypress]

... and mine can do both at once

which is why a smart splitter is useful

[pastel obsidian]

so can mine

[unique cypress]

well, no, if you do it this way, you need one for plastic, one for rubber

[pastel obsidian]

just build it twice

you do the same thing too have a line for rubber a line for plastic

[jaunty stone]

The world does not have that much uranium bro

[unique cypress]

It has 2100

No clue how much they're trying to use because the image is completely unreadable

You can also just make more

Not that there's enough SAM to turn that converted uranium into Ficsonium

[glossy delta]

It does if you sloop reanimated sam constructors

[unique cypress]

Doing Ficsonium with the 2100 natural uranium already requires that.

So no, there is not enough SAM if you make even more uranium. Period.
(unless you mod or cheat ofc)

[glossy delta]

you just have to balance it out

not that you will even be able to use all your power if your waste your sam on that

[hard locust]

it is 2100

the problem is the rest of the numbers that's why im not going for ficsonium

[unique cypress]

I mean one problem is that you chose fertile uranium for some reason

Which means not only do you get less power, but you also need more Ficsonium, which means more resources

[hard locust]

isnt that the one that gives out most energy

[hard locust]

mhh that's weird

i compared the recipes to feed a single nuclear reactor how much uranium they would take down all the chain and that seemed the one that required the least

it was just for fun anyways ill check it better tomorrow

[unique cypress]

With fertile, you get 1.43 TW, without you get 1.47 (from 2100 uranium)

And only 112 Ficsonium instead of ~153

27% less

[hard locust]

mhh alright

[orchid brook]

make what?

[vapid gorge]

they probably mean modeler

[vapid gorge]

I recommend this tool, has a much better UI and much faster https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[wicked vapor]

Looking for a bit of guidance on this to see if i did something wrong, for context im trying to figure out how much i need for 4 Fully Overclocked Powerplants but i cant make sense of some the numbers, very new to using the modeler

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ITueRx2FZi74KSSo5nJy the numbers with the base recipe

[wicked vapor]

oh ok

[vapid gorge]

what numbers confuse you?

[vapid gorge]

sorry one sec

[vapid gorge]

this link

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=pnbFiawIm2mkkkAsm7jT

forgot to turn 1 thing off in the old one

[wicked vapor]

mostly wondering if it automatically sets the amount of clock speed/miners that would use the least amount of miners possible

[vapid gorge]

it just tells you how much you need - as for 'fewest miners' over clock each node as much as you can, if you need more, mine another

this is just base recipes. You could cut some out and some down if you wanted

[wicked vapor]

k

[vapid gorge]

though if you're going nuclear I'd do a bigger one so ou don't have to do it again

[wicked vapor]

ok

whats a good amount of power plants to do

btw this is pre particle accelerator

[vapid gorge]

depends. Are you going to be done with the game after you finish the 5th phase? you can do that on very little. Like 40gw would be pretty easy

if you plan on making it a sandbox after I'd make 200gw at least so you don't have to worry about it

[vapid gorge]

well uranium rods don't need PAs, so yes?

[wicked vapor]

mostly planning on making it a sandbox so like generally good enough to not need to deal with it again

[vapid gorge]

yeah I'd aim for at least 200gw then

[vapid gorge]

I'd do something like this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=iY9MMkHuEqtKoiCQWoYv

has a few resource saving alts but keeps the simplicity of the base uranium recipes

removes Coal and Copper from the set up and replaces it with Oil

[wicked vapor]

k ill try and follow it

one last thing, what would be a good location?

[vapid gorge]

have you ever used SCIM?

[wicked vapor]

no

[vapid gorge]

are you ok with using an online map? it's basically a full exploration spoiler

[wicked vapor]

yeh

[vapid gorge]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

set it to show the nodes you need only, that'll give yo ua good idea and you can more easily make choices

[wicked vapor]

k yeah thats the thing i used

[vapid gorge]

yeah so set it to only show the resources you need 🙂 will make it easier

I recommend using drones for the uranium

[wicked vapor]

oooh ok

[vapid gorge]

and probably the sulfur

[wicked vapor]

i dont have drones yet maybe i should do that

[vapid gorge]

yeah the yare very useful 🙂

[wicked vapor]

tysm for the help, this game is really daunting

[vapid gorge]

no problem! It gets easier with practice and planning 🙂

I break down plans into smaller sections with a spread sheet

[glacial hazel]

In factory design, do you only use the latest mk3/4/5 belts, or do you use it in line with the throughput of the part of the factory?

[vapid gorge]

generally simpler to use your highest mk belt so you don't make a mistake and put a low mk belt down somewhere

unless you're trying to be fancy with looks as slower belts can subjectively look nicer

[shadow sinew]

Magnetic Field Generator is kinda a joke, like it´s so easy compared to all the other Stage 4 elevator parts, and you dont even need more of them

[royal bramble]

Almost always use the highest tier belts I can
Exception is when sending iron or copper ore into smelters, I'll usually use a tier 1 belt, since I'll never have more than 60/min going in anyway
And it helps the smelters fill up a little quicker

[shadow sinew]

it´s almost 50 times less sink value than the assembly director, and way easier of a production chain

[shadow sinew]

I´m always using mk5 for distribution, and then mk1 or mk3 for imputs and outputs into the machine itself depending of the value, for the longest time I had a shortage of reinforced plates and reinforced beams so I just used mk5 for everything since I had a good sized factory for that

[frosty owl]

Ironically, it does not.
Using fast belts on all parts of your logistics is the fastest way to fill up all machines, second only to using smart splitters or a balancer

[shadow sinew]

it´s not the fastest way to fill them, but it is the fastest way to get them working, which is what you probably actually wanted most of the time

[vapid gorge]

it's a slower way to get the mworking
if you use slow belts you feed more machines parts which means the over flow happens slower.

because more machines are chewing parts for longer

[frosty owl]

It's not what I want, for sure :P
I was simply addressing the specific point of "filling machines the fastest", why that's important (to reach max productivity or just to get output out fast) is user preference that I'm not considering 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

the math has been done on this #math-and-meta message

[shadow sinew]

for example I used mk1 belts to feed my radio control unit factory for aluminum casing, which was the bottleneck resource, and while it did take about a minute for the first machine to turn on in like 5 minutes the entire factory turned on, when it would have only been able to fill the first row, maybe some of the second if it had had to fill everything to the top

it was slowly filling up after that, although I had to do load shedding because I ran out of power, so it ended up filling up on that downtime period

[vapid gorge]

ok? you still wind up with a longer amount of spin time on the manifolds

[shadow sinew]

I would say it would graph out like this in percentage of total vs time, red production using mk1 imputs, purple is inventories of intermediate goods using mk1, and blue is mk5 both production and inventories

using a very fast belt the first machines must be completely full before the ones after it in the manifold start receiving reasonable ammounts of material and can work

with slow belts the first machines don´t get to fill up quickly, and the backup forces the parts to distribute themselves

I´ve been studying Just in Time production IRL, so perhaps I´ve thought too hard about using it in Satisfactory, perhaps xd

you give the machine close to the ammount of materials it needs to avoid unnecesary inventories

[frosty owl]

As stated, slow belts do help in making a system output items sooner. This does not mean that the whole system will be at max efficiency sooner though. Those are 2 different things and if one wants to achieve both, they should try a balancer. To give a clear example with M machines, first consider the 2 cases:

• Either you manifold and you have to fill up all machines inventories except for the last 2 machines (needing to give at least (M x stacksize) items to the system for it to fill)
• Or you load-balance, in which case you don't need to fill up the inventories of machines for them to work; as soon as input comes, all are at 100%

Following so far? Any disagreement or misunderstanding, @shadow sinew?

[shadow sinew]

yeah, what I´m saying is that the slow belts are a kinda poor man´s balancer

they somewhat balance the imputs, if not nearly completely

[frosty owl]

They help get output from the machines faster (ie: more machines turn on at the beginning)
It doesn't help getting the system to 100% faster
Ofc, this is compared to using fast belts, not balancers

[shadow sinew]

my radio control unit factory was operating at 100% capacity before a lot of even the first machines in the manifold had fully filled up with aluminum casings

[frosty owl]

Sigh
What's the point of telling a story if you can't explain why things go some way?
Look, I'm not here to tell you how to build your factory, just how the things you mentioned actually work. If you just want to argue with "but my factory" rather than arguments that can be discussed, I'll just leave you to it

[shadow sinew]

it does generalise, using slow belts, only slightly above the consumption of the machine means the distribution belt´s parts can quickly skip it, in the extreme case where the speed of both is the same, it´s mathematically equivalent to a balancer

[frosty owl]

"Skip it" what?

[vapid gorge]

different stack size items spin up at different times

I'll believe the math guy who mathed things out and then put them on a graph

[shadow sinew]

can you share it?

[vapid gorge]

I did, you didn't even bother looking at the link

[frosty owl]

And yeah, the "extreme" case of input matching belt speed is, indeed, a "free" balancer. Everything else is just a manifold... Which needs to fill all machines except for 2 with items before they all run at 100%. There's no way around this other than using a balancer (or equivalent)

Providing "a little more" than what the machines need is, effectively, a manfold. Either it's "exactly as much as needed" (balancer) or it's not

[shadow sinew]

he´s talking about filling the manifold, which is reaching max inventory, although the graph says it´s for production rate which is a completely different metric

we would also need to see the specifics of the experiment or calculations done, it seems to be for recycled plastic and rubber, which has an imput speed of 30, so pretty far from the 60 max

[frosty owl]

I think you're either not reading or missing points. Stacksize doesn't matter. It's really as simple as:

• Having more machines turn on first (ie: almost all machines get at least some items), thus delaying the complete fill of the system (slow belts).
• Having fewer machines turn on first (ie: some get all the items, most get close to none), thus making the system fill up faster than the prior method (fast belts)
  They differ in how many items are made during warmup (slow belt win) and how short the warmup is (fast belt win)

[shadow sinew]

yes, that´s what I was saying

[frosty owl]

That's what you've been arguing with...

[wind spade]

no, mk1 inputs are generally beaten by mkMore in the long run

("beaten" in terms of "time to fill to 100%")

[desert knot]

wait

what's the advantage of turbo blend fuel

oh maybe no coal

because if my calculations are correct the turbo blend fuel is only 0.75 turbo / crude oil

wait no my math is wrong

Using diluted fuel I got that
fuel => turbo is 2.222 T/C
blended is 1.33 T/C
Heavy oil => turbo is 1.066 T/C

I guess diluted fuel is really that OP

[brisk urchin]

yep it is

imo its one if not the best alternative ingame

but sure diffrent people have diffrent opinions

[desert knot]

what could possibly be better than diluted fuel

[brisk urchin]

pure copper ingot

has a 2.5x increase from raw copper ore to ingots

[desert knot]

I feel like copper is less valuable than fuel lol
like you can just get more nodes

[brisk urchin]

yes but im counting the actual recepie more than it gets used overall

for example the quarz purificatkon is also decent

so yeah i also love diluted fuel

its even a litle bit more energy efficent than packaged diluted fuel

[desert knot]

wait I forgot about that one too

[hard locust]

down the line fertile always uses the smallest amount

and the uranium part is the most optimized for each type of plutonium route

nvm the third one gives more power

i just calculate reactor/uranium ratio and the third is the best

i just looked at the uranium number

[pastel canyon]

is this a good early game setup for a first time player with like no prior factory building/tech game knowledge other than like one minecraft modpack once or should i be shot

ignore the fucker on the conveyors i dont know how to get rid of him

(feel free to give tips and suggestions i DO NOT know what im doing)

im also not exactly sure what to do with all this shit except build so its feeding into this... uh.. storage pillar

[hard locust]

this is how im gonna go about it

[brisk urchin]

nice, u using 2100 uranium

have fun building it

[hard locust]

i tried to have the most even numbers without any weird decimal points

might change it a bit later for nuclear weapon tbh

[wind spade]

decimal points aren't weird

[hard locust]

maybe 10 uranium less

[hard locust]

they are a pain in the ass to deal with tho

[wind spade]

they are not?

you just clock the machine to make that much

[hard locust]

well if you wanna make a mainfold that produces all the iron plates for this factory for example

[wind spade]

again, clock the machine, it works just fine

[hard locust]

one central spot and then carry all of them by train to the nuclear production

[hard locust]

its gonna be a pain getting like 140.582 plates from it yk

[wind spade]

you clock the machines to make 140.582

[hard locust]

that only works when a machine output goes to the machine input

not when using trains

[wind spade]

works with trains as well

[hard locust]

good luck with that😭

[wind spade]

if you have X/min on input side, you have X/min on output side

trains do not change that at all

[hard locust]

you better just produce 150 and overflow the rest into a sink

[wind spade]

why?

[hard locust]

you then have to do 10 trains for all the nuclear mainfold that needs iron plates, make 10 different station and send each one the correct amount

[wind spade]

or you manifold the train stations

[hard locust]

bro you can't do it when you merge all the plates a factory needs

[wind spade]

trains are just long belts

[hard locust]

if you need more than 1200/min that aint gonna work

[wind spade]

it will, multiple cars

[hard locust]

its just too much of an headache tbh

[vapid gorge]

it absolutely isn't

[wind spade]

it's super easy

[hard locust]

at that point produce 150 and sink the remaining 9.418 into a sink

[wind spade]

you're essentially making it more complicated for yourself

[vapid gorge]

if you need 14.56 machines that's just 14x 100% and 1x at 56%

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's much more annoying and more effort

[hard locust]

how

its a smart splitter and a sink

[wind spade]

how is changing one number more effort than smart splitter, sink and power line

[vapid gorge]

because you have to figure out MORE than what your step is calling for and make logistics for it.
instead of changing 1 number

[hard locust]

mhh

idk I'll do some testing

[vapid gorge]

you'd also have to change every step of your plan and edit that way.
modeler is bad enough to plan things out, you just hate yourself at that point

clocking is your single most powerful logistical tool you have access to in the game - use it

[unique cypress]

Why the fuck would that ever be necessary

[hard locust]

sorry for talking 😭

[unique cypress]

Nah, I'm with greeny on this one. You put in x/min, set up a train that's capable of transporting x/min or more and you get x/min out

[unique cypress]

For such a small amount like 140 plates/min, all you need is a single train, likely with a single wagon, and you can move those plates anywhere on the map

And then split them off to whatever machines need them

And if you meant sending those plates 10 different factories all over the map, then I'd question the choice of transporting them from a central location vs just making them on-site, but it's not like it's not gonna work. It'll take ages for the platforms to fill, but in the end, the plates will be properly disrupted (as long as you don't sink more than you planned to sink)

[shadow sinew]

I love how maximizing Ballistic Warp Drives casually produces 74 AI expansion servers as byproduct xd

anyway, I should get to tier 9 before Christmas xd

[unique cypress]

Byproducts tend to appear when DMR is involved

[shadow sinew]

Magnetic Field Generators are kinda weird, so much easier to make than the other phase 4 parts, like by at least an order of magnitude

[dusky dust]

They were always one of the easier parts -- pre-1.0 they at least also required Batteries to construct (which makes sense given the resource name), but the 1.0 rebalances nerfed those down quite a bit. (Though even then it's not like batteries were hard)

[shadow sinew]

yeah, add some batteries and it´d still be the easiest one probably, but it wouldn´t be jarring

[wind spade]

you may get a different (easier) one if you change maximise to items/min (but depends on specific setup)

[shadow sinew]

oh, yeah, but I was just looking at what resources are the bottlenecks, I´m not going for maximum production, just close, but using the recipes I like

and seeing how those recipes use more of a certain resource

[unique cypress]

Well, maximize mode doesn't really give you that information. It's entirely possible that maximize mode will tell you that it needs 100% of multiple different resources, when switching back to items/min mode and asking for the same amount will only take 100% of one resource

That is because maximize mode doesn't do anything other than figure out the maximum amount possible given the restrictions. It does NOT optimise for lowest resource usage for that amount

[shadow sinew]

ik, I´m doing it a very vibes based way xd

[pastel canyon]

is this an ok coal powerplant? this is my first powergrid and im not sure if im like, doing a really shitty job/could make it better or if its okay, its all hooked up to an overclocked miner mk1 that does 120 coal/min and 3 waterpumps underclocked to 50%

[unique cypress]

120 coal/min can fuel double the gens

[pastel canyon]

ah

yeah i was thinking about expanding it

but like im short on stuff as you can see on the right side of the screen and i havent automated rotors and reinforced plates yet

so im just kinda procrastinating that

i also have no idea how to expand it, i was thinking second floor

but then like water becomes annoying

[dusky dust]

In terms of the piping: the fluid buffer gets you nothing -- I'd recommend deleting it. Coal gens tend to be forgiving of piping weirdness; ordinarily I wouldn't recommend sending the liquid up and into the coalgens like that, though that system in particular would probably be fine regardless. At least the water numbers do work out (4 * 45 == 3 * 60)

[dusky dust]

The ratio that gets most frequently suggested is 8 coal gens to 3 extractors; you'd have all 8 coal gens all in one line. The main difficulty to overcome there is that your mk1 pipes can handle a max of 300/min fluid, whereas you need 360/min total -- so you can't just feed the water from a single pipe.

[pastel canyon]

idk why i did the fluid buffer honestly i saw a picture and brief video on coal gens and it had the buffer in it and figured it was probably important

[dusky dust]

There's a lot of real trash videos out there. :)

[pastel canyon]

yeah, ill keep that in mind

[dusky dust]

(My apologies to whoever made that video; they're probably a nice person. :D)

[pastel canyon]

so should i set up 3 coal miners? because merging conveyor lines has been a little annoying on my end as it tends to bottleneck, but i assume that mk2 conveyors kinda fix that issue

oh wait you meant waterpumps i think

[dusky dust]

Yeah, was talking water extractors

120/min coal is enough for 8 gens (they take 15/min each) so you should be good there. For water, coalgens take 45/min each, so 8 is 360/min. And extractors produce 120/min each, so 3 of those is also 360/min. :) The main difficulty is just that mk1 300/min limit. :)

If you wanted some easy spoilers about piping systems which work well for that, you can search the wiki for CG; there's some diagrams near the bottom

The main thing is just that you can't use a single pipe to feed 'em, since that'd bottleneck the water delivery

[pastel canyon]

what if i like uhh do a parallel line and have, uh, 4 pumps, 2 per 4 extractors and do something like this

or is that not enough water per side since im using only 2 per 4

(if it wasnt obvious i am awful at math and i have to play this game with a calculator on hand otherwise i fuck up the supply lines)

[dusky dust]

Nah, that would work -- each coal generator requires 45/min water, so 180/min total. Each water extractor (not a "pump" btw! There's a different thing called a Pump) provides 120/min, so that'd be more than the coal gens need. Could underclock one or both of the extractors so they provide a total of 180/min

[dusky dust]

Calculator in-hand is good! Note that if you hit n you have an in-game calculator, too. :)

(Can also search for resources and buildings and such in that bar, to open up Codex entries. :)

[pastel canyon]

that is extremely handy actually i will be throwing my calculator back in the drawer

[pastel canyon]

i was also not aware that the pump is a different thing, so my apologies on that

[dusky dust]

Heh, all good, super common slip of the tongue. :)

[pastel canyon]

also, regarding this, would it be more (resource & power) efficient to put only 1 water extractor for each side and overclock it? or is that gonna tank my power generation under the floor?

[dusky dust]

It's technically less power-efficient to overclock them, but it won't tank your power grid

The difference isn't really gigantic

2 buildings at 50% will consume less power than 1 building at 100%. And 1 building at 200% takes more power than 2 at 100%

[unique cypress]

1 extractor at 200% consumes 50 MW, 2 at 100% consume 20 each, so 40 total

[dusky dust]

In general don't be afraid of overclocking if you want to save on space; there's a lot of slugs on the map, and you can eventually totally automate shard production (though that is very late-game. Tier 9 stuff.)

[pastel canyon]

im trying to squeeze as much power as i can out of this because im about to start (trying to, atleast) automating the more complex resources like reinforced plates, motors, and all that so i dont know how much power im gonna have to use for that and i really do not want to find myself at power deficits after finishing the powerplant

im hoping this powerplant will carry me through atleast a tier or two

though i think thats very optimistic

[pastel canyon]

okay, so i save space and resources but i consume 20 more MWs

thats acceptable i think

[unique cypress]

10 more. But yes

[dusky dust]

How much power you need is very much a function of how "big" you decide to build. You can definitely get through the game by being very stingy on power, if you're conservative in your building

[pastel canyon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/1452641426314760202/image.png?ex=694a8d40&is=69493bc0&hm=04423f0485223b6dc14ce4fbf187dc8d2dab005c428b7974568fb5dae8f27be9&

[dusky dust]

It's not unusual for folks to end Phase 2 with anywhere from 32-64 coalgens, though plenty of folks do less (and I'd say a smaller number do more)

[pastel canyon]

this is what i have so far and its been using up like 100MWs total

its been a bitch trying to manage that with bioburners

i think i deforested half the world

[dusky dust]

Yeah, biofuel in Phase 1 is sort of intentionally annoying as an added incentive to get onto coal power. :)

(Note for future playthroughs that alien remains can get you a lot of biomass. I personally tend to try and save those for DNA, but they can be a great substitute to chainsawing)

[pastel canyon]

i think i have fought like, maybe one or two aliens

i am VERY stationary and very rarely leave my base

i only left to look for coal powerplant spots

and i havent really ventured out much except from base to powerplant and back to base

which in total is like, a 1km trek at most? which i imagine is not much

[pastel canyon]

32??? 😭 😭

well i mean, i assume its gonna be alot less tedious to make them once i automate reinforced plating and all that stuff

[unique cypress]

I'd say 16-64 but yeah

[pastel canyon]

but it took me the entire day to just set up what i have right now

[unique cypress]

I had 32 this run

[pastel canyon]

ough

[unique cypress]

48 the previous

[pastel canyon]

yyyeaah i need to start planning out the shit i build properly

i cobble stuff together untill it works then if i have to touch it AT ALL it usually stops working so i have to tear it down

[dusky dust]

Yeah, if I want to encapsulate the usual bellcurve I should probably retrain myself to floor at 16 instead. :P

[pastel canyon]

16 doesent sound too bad i guess yeah

[dusky dust]

A lot of it is just getting used to scale, of course. Once you've been through the game and gone through higher tiers, setting up coalgens feels like a nice afternoon stroll. :)

On my last playthrough I just went ahead and set up 64 all in one go (I admit that 64 is a bit much even for me; I'm far more likely to do closer to 48)

[pastel canyon]

oh yeah im absolutely aware, this is also my first like, factory game and i have like zero tech game knowledge, this is WAY out of my usual gaming field 😭

[dusky dust]

Good times! You only get to play the game for the first time once. :)

[pastel canyon]

i guess that is true yeah, im trying to be organized but as youve seen my base you can probably tell im failing pretty hard at that

[dusky dust]

(and, sidetracking, of course: remember that the only thing that actually matters is you having fun. Ask for advice about nearly anything here or elsewhere and you're likely to get twelve conflicting answers. If you're ever overwhelmed by all that, just ignore it and go Do Your Own Thing™. There's really no "wrong" way to play, and the game's very forgiving. :)

[pastel canyon]

oh no i enjoy getting multiple answers from multiple people because then i can pick and choose from different POV's or cobble my own solution from other people's suggestions

its just that whenever i see the game throw at me like, 9 new complex parts to automate and im over here with a BARELY FUNCTIONAL basic resource automation i just kinda stare at the screen like

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1408553615655833680/1452328908589367347/image.png?ex=694abbb2&is=69496a32&hm=0863c18f3f3ad21d8c147a5d86dacdac4b30488ec41bc683e2b0f7bc2049f6ad&

[wind spade]

I mean the basic resource production is fine to be barely functional - you just don't touch it and it makes things. If you need more, you build more factories

[pastel canyon]

i mean i say barely functional mostly because my screw conveyors are bottlenecked as fuck

trying to merge 3 conveyors in one merger is a BAD IDEA

[wind spade]

trying to merge screws (or wire or quickwire) is always a "bad" idea

make the amount you need and hook it 1:1 to the next machine

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, Screws are the game's first instance of the game telling you that not everything needs to be centralized. :D

'cause yeah, routing around centralized screw production with early-game belt speeds is, indeed, kind of a nightmare

(You are not alone in having tried to do so. :)

[pastel canyon]

my wire production is like uhhh i have a smelter splitting it 2 ways i think and theres 2 constructors making wire which merge back on a central conveyor and that has been working well i think

hold on let me get back home ill show

[dusky dust]

(Others, of course, will say that Screws are the game's first instance of encouraging you to find alt recipes which don't involve screws, though personally I don't mind 'em. :)

[wind spade]

yeah, evading screws for the sake of evading screws is not very practical

if you choose screwless recipes for other reasons, it may happen anyway, but I wouldn't force it just because the recipe has "screws" in ingredients

[pastel canyon]

this is my copper stuff (yeah its just wire and cable because i set it up before unlocking plates and im now suffering because i have to handcraft plates)

[wind spade]

instead of suffering, set up a machine that makes the plates for you 😉

[pastel canyon]

i know i know i should but i dont know if i should use another miner on another copper vein or try to hook it up off this one

because im scared of messing up the wire/cable production

[wind spade]

use as many raw resources as you need for the desired produciton (start calculating from end product backwards)

[pastel canyon]

also my storage tower is getting a little tall i dont know if i should keep making it taller

hooking up the conveyors is starting to get weird

[wind spade]

you can put them next to each other 😉

[pastel canyon]

oh

yeah im stupid thats a fair point

i should also fix my concrete production because i set it up on an impure vein unknowingly on what it meant at the time and now i get 1 concrete per 4-7 business days

[wind spade]

still better than nothing, no reason to touch that

build more elsewhere if you need more

[pastel canyon]

thats fair yeah i guess theres no point in touching it unless i start to using it all up

i mean not like im gonna have time for that anyway since my next 2-3 hours are gonna be spent trying to double the coal powerplant and make it parallel

(im gonna have to rebuild the whole thing fucking end me)

wait im stupid i should automate reinforced plates, rotors and plate first so i dont suffer

back to the drawing board i guess

[wind spade]

yeah, always automate anything you need, handcrafting is practically never a good option

[pastel canyon]

but thanks for all the tips everyone, they have genuinely helped immensly 😭
asking stuff to other people who actually know what the hell they're doing is the only way i feel like i have a slight idea of what im doing so i feel like im gonna end up here often

it also helped me actually have an idea of what im supposed to do

[fierce ruin]

Can anyone tell what I'm supposed to do after reaching phase 4 ?
Like any progression guide or step ?

[wind spade]

I mean 99% of the game is "do what you want" 🙂

[unique cypress]

same as every other tier. automate the items you unlocked

[vapid gorge]

often mk3 miners and mk5 belts ?

hover pack is super useful

[languid laurel]

I just started playing satisfactory and just started automating reinforce iron sheets slowly is there anything I should prioritize like power cells?

[vapid gorge]

power cells?

[languid laurel]

The power slug thingys

[vapid gorge]

oh well feel free to collect whatever you want nearby. I probably wouldn't turn them to power shards until you can dupe them

but tiers 1-2 are basically a pre tutorial

[languid laurel]

Idk it seems kinda easier to just have another smelter or smth instead of overlocking one

[vapid gorge]

Shards, early on, are most useful in miners. Since that actually increases the amount of resources you ahve to work with

in machines like constructors it just saves you space

now, don't get me wrong, that's super useful for design, layout and all that. But I wouldn't worry about putting them in constructors or generators early

[languid laurel]

I started in the dune desert area should I stay there I have a few pure iron deposits

[royal bramble]

IMO dune desert is a great place to start - it has almost every early resource within close proximity
But if you're going to stay there, rush Solid Biofuel (I forgot the tech name) and then Coal, since there's a lot less greenery around to feed your biofuel generators

[languid laurel]

I unlocked the alternate recipe for biofuel with alien food thingy so fuel seems pretty fine for now

But I do want coal generators soon I found2 coal deposits near each other

[royal bramble]

Fair enough, but remember that you're going to have to keep feeding them

[languid laurel]

I have no clue how I’m going to get water to them though

[royal bramble]

I've used two different places for power plants, both around the upper left of the dune desert

• There's a spot with a few coal nodes on a cliff near a giant waterfall - you can build the water extractors and coal generators in the water and bring the coal down via conveyer
• Use the big lake for your water, and conveyer the coal nodes over there (a bit of a drag, not terrible)

[languid laurel]

Does the lake not dry up

[royal bramble]

Nope

[languid laurel]

Oh nice

[royal bramble]

Greenery, slugs, and other 'collectables' are finite
Nothing else dries up or runs out (including resource nodes)

[languid laurel]

My friend spent ages looking for an ocean because he thought the lake he had would dry up

[royal bramble]

Just be aware if you use the lake that there are creatures, poison geysers, and those annoying plants with legs around, so you gotta clear those out or stay away

[languid laurel]

Do you think I should keep automating items like rotors etc or should I keep unlocking new things through the tiers