math-and-meta

[unique cypress]

Either wrong math or wrong recipes

[still aurora]

Total fuel/consumption rate*oil per min right?

Ur math is using diluted plus turbo blend right

[unique cypress]

Idk, I sent you a Tools link, you can cross check with that

[still aurora]

How do I uhhh do that

[unique cypress]

Click on the link

[still aurora]

Never used tools in my life

[still aurora]

Done!

[unique cypress]

Go to the plan that opened and go to visualization

Everything is in there

[still aurora]

I'll cross check when I get home in 3 hours. Navigating this on phone is annoying

[versed mango]

anyone with a plan for a steel factory with a production of like 30 or 55 iron enter?

[dusky dust]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production is a good online solver, fwiw

[versed mango]

Thanks

[dusky dust]

Plug in your desired outputs, possibly adjust which Recipes you want available in the Recipes tab, etc

[still aurora]

Are you telling me i didn't have to do all the math for my 400 fuel gens in my head?

[scarlet sky]

Indeed, that tool is freakin' awesome

Buy the dude a coffee if you can

[vapid gorge]

I'm pretty sure I've linked to you plans several times from that tool

[still aurora]

I didn't realize it did all the math for you. I thought you had to type the math in 😭

I gotta make a doc for the links you send tho in the future

[vapid gorge]

poke at things and discover stuff - that's like 90% of human existence

[still aurora]

You're right. Ik there are other tools too

But I forgot there name

[vapid gorge]

eh. sftools has the best UI and functionality, but yes there are others

[versed mango]

I have 2 silica pure ore spot one beside the other …

[vapid gorge]

that happens yes

[versed mango]

I think I will make the box and the bag

[versed mango]

It’s write silica for the two, but one you can make the window with (the bag) and the other is a like a box with the quartz

[vapid gorge]

just say silica and crystal

[versed mango]

Ok

[stoic gorge]

wdym

you mean you should ignore then?

[vapid gorge]

no , they are just decimals because of the tiem scale you're using

for example

if you make 1.3333333 parts per 1 minute right? decimals

multiply both sides by 3

you get 4 parts per 3 minutes

decimals vanish

so decimals are based totally on how you decide to perceive them (for the most part)

and at least in regards to this game

[stoic gorge]

hmm I understand it but idk how is this applicable in the game

[dusky dust]

Keep in mind that in a machine's configuration, you can literally just type in how much you want the machine to make

[vapid gorge]

mostly becaues people see something like 4.3556 and freak out

yeah clocking makes decimals totally meaningless in the game

[dusky dust]

Like those areas are literally textboxes. If you want a machine to make 1.3333/min of something, you can focus that number and type in 1.3333

And it'll adjust the clock appropriately

[vapid gorge]

Like, I get some people just not being mathy and highschool probably had math class trauma where decimals are scary - but in Satisfactory you have total control over them

[dusky dust]

(It's not obvious to a lot of folks that there's more controls than just the clock slider)

[stoic gorge]

oh yes, in this case I dont care to it too

when you said that you werent even talking to me so it was different contexts

[vapid gorge]

fair 🙂

[scarlet sky]

Always nice coming back from an adventure with a boatload of spheres and sloops and hard drives

[dreamy swallow]

just gonna drop this here, complete iron rework for 3 pure nodes

dont even ask how long this took @stable anchor

[scarlet sky]

wow

Like, I could do that, I make those as part of my job, but... nah

[stable anchor]

i did the one node in the time it took you to do two... ._.

[dreamy swallow]

im asking myself if its even worth at this point likeee

[scarlet sky]

I never do, I just use the various online tools

Although I haven't really found a good one for physical layout planning

[tawny matrix]

Greetings,

I'm fairly new to Satisfactory (have only played roughly 160 hours in the past 2 weeks). Does this look correct for a simple fuel factory?

[stable anchor]

using a workflow planner + interactive map seems like a good way to map out the physical layout while quickly accessing your available resources

[vapid gorge]

sure? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=fvlm1EyK3PiwTEAsUiWM

[tawny matrix]

Ah, this tool seems better than the planner on the interactive map; thank you for showing me this

[vapid gorge]

no sweat, and yeah the SCIM planner is a bit awkward with a poor ui

SFTools is really powerful, takes a little learning but is really worth it imo

[tawny matrix]

things were getting messy when byproducts got introduced

[vapid gorge]

biggest thing is turning off SAM ore or the converters, as the Converstion recipes are considered base recipes

until you actually need it ofc, then turn off the conversion recipes

[tawny matrix]

this let me verify my work properly:

something this couldn't cut for me

[vapid gorge]

well its essentially the same process, but I hate hte UI for it

[tawny matrix]

probably going to stick with the extra 5 empty canisters just so that I have clean ratios

[vapid gorge]

sure. Remember though with ratios - with clocking decimals and machien numbers are meaningless

[tawny matrix]

fair, but it feels easier to organize

[vapid gorge]

up to you 🙂

[vapid gorge]

@hot bison
ok compare your math to this plan https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=4RFn9QhXN5RmBlMpx2i2

<@&387163995947270144>

[still aurora]

@vapid gorge when using smttools do i start from product made and go backwards right

[vapid gorge]

yup, put in an output and let it do it's stuff

[still aurora]

does this factor overclocking and underclocking?

[vapid gorge]

if you see it say 4.3 machines? that's just 430% clocking however you like

[still aurora]

also.....does it tell you how it got these numbers? im cross checking my math with it.....my math seems to be wrong but i genuinely don't see how. and i have absolutely no idea how it got the numbers for the heavy res

[vapid gorge]

share me the link you're looking at

3 dots in the right hand corner linked up

the blue square

[still aurora]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=6UgoslNLWBw0tvYnWKM3 its the second one the 3015

this is my math for comparison

Each gen burns 7.5
Each blender makes 45 a min.
1 blender = 6 gens
402/6 is 67 blenders
7.5ms*402 is 3,015ms tol

15ms*67 blenders = 1005ms of fuel for all blenders to be running at full efficiency

30ms*67 is 2010ms of heavy res

22.5 *67 is 1507.5 sulfer and coke a min I THINK that number seems really high tho.

If i use crude oil i need.....
1005/40=25.125*60 crude oil 1507.5ms for the fuel(repeat process for everything else.)
1507.5 for the heavy res
And an additional 378 for the coke

With diluted fuel
16 extracters for water
1,206ms for the total oil for the heavy res

Total resources
Crude oil=3,378(2713.5 with diluted instead)
2010ms of heavy res
1005ms fuel
3015ms of turbofuel
1507.5 of coke and sulfer
With a total of 402 gens and 67 blenders
50refiners

im like WAY off with the oil and i don't know how

and i kinda want to know how

[vapid gorge]

well for example , the 3015 TF is being made with 6700% clocking of the recipe

[vapid gorge]

either you did the math wrong or you were using a different recipe

[still aurora]

I used the recipes I was planning to use and matched them with those same recipes. even if I used a different one my oil math shouldn't be that far off.

This accounted for the extra 2 gens being powered, so 402 instead of 400. but that's a super small difference.

not that any of this matters at the end of the day. but i like to understand where i went wrong i do something wrong

[vapid gorge]

couldn't tell you sorry

are you just saying your initial crude oil number is wrong?

[still aurora]

that and the heavy res,not my much my total heavy res is 3216 while this gave me 3015 so i'd assume its somewhere with the heavy res calcs. not that i know where

[vapid gorge]

well if you look in theitems tab, it says you're making 3015 HOR total as well, and if you plug just that into the planner with your recipes you get the same crude oil number, so you probably just forgot to carry a number or missed a small thing

[still aurora]

yea i'd guess so

thank god for planners

[still aurora]

@vapid gorgei can't calcualte the materials needed to make machine on here right

[vapid gorge]

you mean make the machines for the plan?

[vapid gorge]

minus the converter - sometimes SF tools has small hiccupts

[still aurora]

there's also 10 extra blenders

but i was talking abt for the gens

cuz uh

[vapid gorge]

no 10.05+67 is at least 78 blenders

you need 10 more blenders for the diluted fuel

[vapid gorge]

divide your total fuel by how much 1 fuel gen needs - boom, done

[still aurora]

.......OHHHHHHHH

anyway i uhhhh......MAYYYYYY have underestmated how many moters i need

[vapid gorge]

but also since you can and probably will OC stuff that's not really relevant

plus , item cost is basically free since you should be automating it

[still aurora]

i mean its......automated

not good,only like 5 a min

[vapid gorge]

so free 🙂

[still aurora]

yea

[still aurora]

@vapid gorge so uhmm i guess shipping the resources needed might be better? this is for making 100 computers a min btw

i did say i wanted to make absurds ammount of resources

this wasn't till after power is done

i was just curious

but i guess everything should be shipped

[vapid gorge]

100 isn't a huge amount. Why would it be shipped? find an area with the resources you need

get some alt recipes to reduce them

share me the link

[still aurora]

that just seems like alottttttttttttttttttt of machines

[vapid gorge]

share me the link 😛

[still aurora]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=VHgeJuGQOzb9GZubpZyE

its the same one

[vapid gorge]

here https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Vd6XmzgJoN3hs8A3iztB

[still aurora]

also i decided ima just make all my iron stuff in one area,same for like every other resource and go from there

[vapid gorge]

much less in base resources

[still aurora]

what did you do?

[vapid gorge]

swapped in some alt recipes 🙂 not many

could go PURE copper if you want to cut out iron

[vapid gorge]

here , pure copper swapped. Even less resources, but more refineries https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=o97yj84dSKQlEOrlsIbl

I just really hate refineries

[still aurora]

depends if its independent or shipped i guess. i was desgining all these factorys relying on each other, i feel lik independent factorys is alot when ur doing big numbers

[vapid gorge]

nah, you can make HUGE factories on location.
especially with resource saving alts

[still aurora]

i swear you were just steering me away from huge factorys

[vapid gorge]

it's the same output

[still aurora]

ye ik but not in one place

[vapid gorge]

yours vs my plan

[still aurora]

also what was the alt recipes for the one with iron

[vapid gorge]

you can build them in the same spot!

just copper alloy recipe.
but pure does save you from having to bring in iron which is nice

1/4 the oil and 1/6th the copper!

you could make 400 computers instead

[still aurora]

HOW did you lesson it by SO MUCH

[vapid gorge]

did you not even look at the links?

[still aurora]

thats......not a bad idea

[still aurora]

i did

but jeez

[vapid gorge]

then you shouldn't be surprised 😛

as for how - I used alts. I told you

just make the 100, that's lots

[still aurora]

i didn't think they made that big of an impact

went from 3k oil to 1.2k

[vapid gorge]

base HMF recipes vs my normal alts used?

about 1/4 the iron and coal used, 1/2 the limestone

maybe less on the limestone, don't remember exactly

[vapid gorge]

4.8k oil 😛

[still aurora]

guess i know who to go to for recipes

[vapid gorge]

I do know them fairly well

[still aurora]

fairly he says

you made my work wayyyyyyy less

[vapid gorge]

I find using a combo of Silica Circuit boards + crystal computer tends to let you have a massive computer output w/o hammering your oil hard

[still aurora]

i didn't even know these exsited, and no i did not look at the wiki

i do tend to play games blind

[vapid gorge]

that's fair 🙂

sorry, caterium circuit board + crystal computer. Spread teh resource demand to many resources instead of just a couple

[still aurora]

Anyway another reason I considered shipping was that if I'm, making all my circuit boards in bulk anyway then I might as well ship them to the computers instead of making MORE for computer factory. Why do I need to make so much in bulk in the first place if it's not being used for computers? I don't know but I want everything in bulk so

i'll see when i make it

[vapid gorge]

eh, if you want, it's simpler doing it on site though. You can find oil and copper next to each other

[still aurora]

maybe but my plastic and rubber is getting its own factory

so its not like the oil should be a huge issue

@vapid gorgei didn't know insulated cable was actually good

that just seemed worse

and the recyled materials

[vapid gorge]

just ship 400 copper to a place with 2 oil nodes, done 😛

well if you make the cheap recycled rubber and plastic , insulated cable increases output to 400%

for not much oil

[still aurora]

now i gotta act GET these recipes

[vapid gorge]

get all the recipes, they all have their uses

[still aurora]

easeir said then done when im looking for a single one

[vapid gorge]

gear up for a lon safari, research hard drives as you travel 🙂

object scanner can pick up hard drives

[still aurora]

i try

[still aurora]

interactive map exist

its the resources FOR opening them

thats an issue

i don't have a depot setup yet

[vapid gorge]

sure but I don't offer that without spoiler warnings

[vapid gorge]

just carry a stack of everything with you

and stuff to make a few bio burners

[scarlet sky]

Finally, unlocked the hoverpack

Building is just painful without it

[true parrot]

Where would i find caterium and crude oil close to each other

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#3;50668;-5127|gameLayer|;oilImpure;oilNormal;oilPure;cateriumNormal;cateriumPure

[scarlet sky]

Not sure, but you can run caterium from the southwest pure node north to the islands easily enough

[half frigate]

Hey guys, new to the server, but I hage 150+ hrs on the game. My question is, how many fuel generators can I supply with ionized fuel, coming from 250 nuclear reactors?

[unique cypress]

ionized fuel coming from nuclear reactors? huh?

[scarlet sky]

I'm confused, how does ionized fuel come from nuclear reactors?

[half frigate]

Im a bit clueless aight

If that actually cant happen then thats fine, ill still build the reactors

[scarlet sky]

If you build 250 nuke reactors you'll probably never need power again...

That's a massive build

[half frigate]

I am aware of that

I have a couple goals in the game.

Ill take this to what seems like the main chat

[scarlet sky]

lol whoops I thought this was the main chat

[unique cypress]

I have autism - this is the main chat for me kekw

[half frigate]

Lol

Fair

[tough patio]

Lol

[worn delta]

If my math is correct I can setup 169 fuel generators off 1 pure oil node at 250% using turbo fuel

How do you all have setups with way more than that am I dumb?

[unique cypress]

You should be able to get 177.(7)

You can get way more with rocket fuel, but not with turbo

[worn delta]

Did I math wrong?

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=n2Ps0MheYfLjHTwJUtuj

[worn delta]

Ah I don't have blenders

[unique cypress]

don't need blenders

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Fns8hzxSqbDngxFSg9HN

[worn delta]

Oh just my packager unpackger setup

[worn delta]

So my limit is my belt speed right now. I can't make that much compacted coal yet.

But I should still be able to have quite a few.

[unique cypress]

belt speed is only a limit when extracting from a miner?

[worn delta]

To make that much compacted coal I'd have to kill my coal factories

Is there that much sulfur ?

Well miner can only get x amount per machine and I don't think have enough

[vagrant lynx]

If i were to use multiple floors for different things could I realistically utilize pure iron nodes and pure copper nodes to automate smart plates, automated wiring, and versatile framework using 4 pure iron and 2 pure copper nodes without hiccups?

I say floors because my 4 iron nodes are pretty close together and my 2 copper nodes are close but on different levels

[wind spade]

you could do that with any number of nodes

it depends on what production do you want from it

I'd recommend starting from end goal and calculating backwards

rather than trying to "utilise a node fully"

[vagrant lynx]

Currently my goal is to automate the phase 2 stuff so I can focus on steel production while it builds up. Im hoping my math works for attempting to use my 4 iron nodes and 2 copper nodes to automate them within the space I have. I dont have access to mk2 miners or mk3 belts yet.

[wind spade]

again, don't limit yourselves to nodes

start with end product, decide on amount you want, calculate backwards to raw resources

[vagrant lynx]

Fair. This is what that network looks like. For 5 frame, 5 smart plating and 1 wiring

[unique cypress]

There's a 90% chance there's at least one mistake in that graph

I strongly advise against using this piece of shit calculator

[wind spade]

especially the realistic option

[vagrant lynx]

Didn't realize it was bad

[dusky dust]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "piece of shit," but it's definitely not good compared to the other solvers out there

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production tends to be the solver recommended most often, though there are others available out there as well

Note that none of the other solvers try to show you specific things like splitters and miners and such (AFAIK, anyway) -- that's something that satisfactory-calculator.com tries to do in its "realistic" mode, but it's just, like, Not Good

The other solvers will just give you a "logical" overview of how the production chain looks, and it's up to you to figure out the implementation details of exactly how you want to belt it / split materials / etc

(satisfactory-calculator.com will do that too if you turn off the "realistic" mode, though it's still not a great solver to use anyway)

[vagrant lynx]

Makes sense find out what the math is and then try to produce it.

[dusky dust]

And of course even though we're rather negative about the solver/calculator at satisfactory-calculator.com, its Interactive Map section is A+ in terms of functionality

[floral mica]

Best calculator is scrap paper and a pen

Unless it's nuclear or something

[unique cypress]

Then try using paper to figure out what's the smallest amount of iron ore you need to make 1 HMF

[vagrant lynx]

So to make automated wiring i need to make 1 stator and 20 cable every 20 seconds so theres no idling. Is that possible or will there be idle regardless

[wind spade]

easy, 0

[unique cypress]

Wrong

[floral mica]

But don't you need steel no matter what? Or I guess alu beams, alu rods-screws

[wind spade]

you can convert anything into iron

[floral mica]

Into iron ore

And then use that much iron ore

[unique cypress]

That's still iron ore you're using.

I asked about how much iron ore you need. Not how much you iron ore you need to mine

[wind spade]

if you want to get this technical, then "iron" doesn't exist in the game, so I'm still correct. You'd have to say "iron ore" or "iron ingot"

[vagrant lynx]

So all overclocking is easy math right? So a smelter for copper ingot set to an overclock of 200% would produce 60 ingots/min?

[wind spade]

yeah

[vagrant lynx]

So 1 pure copper node can go into either 4 smelters or 2 200% smelters and produce the same amount

[wind spade]

that depends on much more things than what you listed. Personally I'd suggest stopping using "node" and starting using "per minute" values 😉

[unique cypress]

Yes, a machine at 200% is twice as fast as a machine at 100%

[vagrant lynx]

How do regular splitters work? Is it just completely even through the 3 exits. So a smelter at 200% making 60ingots/min would send 20ingots/min if each port is used?

[wind spade]

like everything else in this game, they do not work in "items/min", but in items - when item arrives, it goes to next exit in round-robin order

[vagrant lynx]

Well yes, but the math would still equate to that yes? What if another splitter gets thrown into the mix

[wind spade]

yeah, if all outputs are empty, then it would split equally 3-way

[unique cypress]

Splitters split equally among all available outputs

[vagrant lynx]

So a 120/min miner using 2 splitters down 60/min can then be split again into 4 smelters at the 30/min?

[unique cypress]

For example, yes.

But because a smelter only pulls 30/min, you can do this:

-s-s-s-s
 | | | |
```where s is a splitter and the smelters are below

[vagrant lynx]

Thats manifold. Right? Or load bearing

[unique cypress]

That's a manifold, yes

[vagrant lynx]

Will I need more wire, cable, or copper plating later on in the phases

[unique cypress]

Of course

There are very few items that stop being useful

[vagrant lynx]

Oh thats my bad, I meant like which will I need more of later on? I should've phrased that better

[unique cypress]

That entirely depends on the recipes you choose to use

[floral mica]

Copper is common enough for now that you can just use it as you need it

If you need more wire, make more wire. There's probably more copper available pretty easily.

[vagrant lynx]

Fair. Ill probably have a line for copper plating 2 for wire and 2 for cable since thats used quite a bit for power

Right now the only alt recipes I have are cast screws and copper rotors

[wind spade]

so one meh and one decent 😄

[vagrant lynx]

Which is meh?

[wind spade]

cast screws

(though this is my opinion, as always - alt recipes are subjective and any of them can help you in some way)

[worn delta]

Ok overclocking coal and sulfur to 300/m
Compacted coal is 25/m of each, which makes 25/m, so is that 12 asemblers that can each making compacted coal?
If so 300 compacted coal can run 300/7.14 should be roughly 42 coal powered generators ?

I may be off who knows

[vagrant lynx]

Fair. I only got cast screws cause It helped conserve space

[potent pawn]

for some reason my factory keeps on filling up with heavy oil residue even though i should be using exactly how much i need and since i need the polymer and the heavy oil residue it shuts down the whole factory what should i do to fix this

nvm actually i realize that if i add a smart splitter to the petroleum coke refineries it wont jam up anymore

[dreamy swallow]

the (close to halfway) finished product

[vast coral]

I should be able to fill this water line with 240 water, then cycle back the 360 water the next 3 refineries make all into that same water line correct?

[vapid gorge]

wdym?

[vast coral]

So that water line connecting all 3 refineries, I intend to fill it with only 240 fresh water.
I am gonna set down 3 refineries in front of them for the sloppy alumina to turn into aluminum scrap. The water that comes from the scrap recipe. I should be able to cycle it back directly into that same line the fresh is going into

I assume that is basically what the tools is saying. Even doing the numbers, that makes the pipeline a full 600

[vapid gorge]

put the scrap refineries directly in front - generally easier.

and I'm almost certain I mentioned to you to NOT merge fresh and waste water together.

blue line is fresh water, red is waste
don't cross the beams 😛

[vast coral]

actually ya.

Exactly like that

[vapid gorge]

just clock the machines

While it's possible to merge fresh and waste water, it's often obnoxious and the methods are less than reliable in if they work or not

[vast coral]

they should all just be 100%?

[vapid gorge]

no they should be clocked to consume the right amoutn of water pm

[vast coral]

oh wait. ya cause the lines are gonna fill from that fresh water pump

[vapid gorge]

you could do this for example

break the link between refs 1 and 2, the nclock them to use 240 , 180 and 180

[pastel obsidian]

Try it they fixed it in an update a while ago

[vapid gorge]

ah so gil hasn't stopped giving completely terrible pipe advice and trolling people

good to know my block is still very valid

[vast coral]

I was doing some math earlier about this.
I have 4k baux, which is 20 refineries.
If I fill 10 with fresh water. Recycled water can fill up 6.
If I do 15 with fresh water. Recycled water can fill up 9. (To many refineries x-x)
So if I do the first option. I will have 4 refineries to fill with fresh, then 480 recycled water that I can sink with 576 limestone (Basically just 1 belt of 600) and be good.

[vapid gorge]

process each bauxite belt on it's own - you'll save yourself a massive headache

[vast coral]

Cause I can easily sink 480 water, and get extra concrete which would be nice to have going into a DD

[pastel obsidian]

That's also a great option there are so many ways to sink water

[vapid gorge]

Or you could jsut keep the waters split and then make exactly the amount of concrete you want elsewhere ? most bauxite production isn't near limestone

[vapid gorge]

remember the overcomplicating thing you keep doing?

[vast coral]

Yes, but trying to sink 2400 is a lot harder then 480

[vast coral]

I don't think this is over complicating it at all.

I did this with my start alum factory. Plus when it comes to concrete production I kind of rely on excess water+limestone for my DD

[vapid gorge]

interlinking all the systems is a bad move. You do not want to mix a ton of fluid systems together

[pastel obsidian]

I more so meant instead of looking for the perfect clock speed you and sink the 300 or so water that's left over

Send the 2400 for more bauxite

[vast coral]

Ya, which is why baux is such a pain.

[vast coral]

I am already consuming 4k...

[vast coral]

this idea won't work. Same issue because I need to supply fresh water again

[vapid gorge]

not if you keep them in their own little groups

[vapid gorge]

your choices actively make bauxite a pain

[pastel obsidian]

Why don't you test sending back the water on one refinery and if it works for you it would make your life so much easier

[vast coral]

yes, but its also fun problem solving :>

[vapid gorge]

don't do it with fluids

[vast coral]

because logically it wouldn't.

[vapid gorge]

keep them as simple as possible - because when yo uhave problems , the first advice people will tell you is 'simplify your pipes'

[vast coral]

I would have to kick it all off at the exact perfect time.

[pastel obsidian]

Build one test refinery on the side you only need 2 machines and an extractor / water pipe

[vast coral]

maybe it would, but I am gonna have to test it later.

wifey is now stealing me for sonic ice cream LMAO.

@vapid gorge can you send that image again with the recipes on it? I gotta follow that for sure I think. I forgot it about it LMAO.

[vapid gorge]

you don't need it if you're merging al lthe systems together

also it's just an example of how things work. Just clock the machines as you need it by figuring out the % you need using which waters

if you have 450 waste water? 450/X where X is the amount of water pm a recipe needs. that gives you the %

[pastel obsidian]

Don't worry cobalt you can just loop it

[vast coral]

So using a 600 baux belt. (I have like 5 or 6 xD)
That will fill 3 refineries. Which will give 360 waste water. Do I cycle that into the starting 3 refineries, or use that for the next 3?

[vapid gorge]

if you're interlinking them? I guess you feed it to the next

[vast coral]

Doesn't have to be interlink

[vapid gorge]

well it'd look like this then, with 240 coming in the blue line 360 coming in the red

the lower refineries are solution, the top are scrap

[vast coral]

Yes yes.

So the one getting fresh is higher percent cause its 240 water.

Then you are link all the solution between the 3? And like manifold distribute them?

[vapid gorge]

depending on the clockings? yes

in my example the solutions just feed to the ones in front because I could set it up like that

[vast coral]

That is what I want to do as well :>

[vapid gorge]

this is the clocking I used with this group of machines - but I'm using sloppy + electrode here. You'd have dif numbers

well it's almost certainly doable to do with your recipes too

[vast coral]

Le yoink

[vapid gorge]

you're not using Electrode scrap

[vast coral]

[vapid gorge]

those numbers won't work for you

[vast coral]

Fuck. You are right.

But its the same principle right?

[vapid gorge]

but it should be easy enough to figure out HOW to do it with yours

[vapid gorge]

basically

see if you can clock your machines to consume 240, 180 180
then see if the scrap refineries can use those amounts of solution it makes

so 240/200 for your first refinery

then 180/200 clocking for the waste water ones

120% and 90% x2

scrap should be 120 and 90 90 as well it seems

[vast coral]

Sorry I got lost. I stepped out of chat. I got to re read all of this.

[unique cypress]

You can also do the braindead solution and package the water, use a priority merger, then unpackage the water

Perfect prioritization, no chance of deadlock, fairly simple math. The only price is that you need like double the space for all the packagers

[vapid gorge]

this should also work ?

[vast coral]

Bite me.

That means getting oil and plastic as well which isn't near me

[vapid gorge]

yeah kyo has interesting ideas that are 10x more effort than 'just not connecting them up' because one time they did pipes wrong and it didn't work

[unique cypress]

No, you don't need plastic. When you unpackage the water, you get the canisters back. Just loop them back to the packaging side. You only need a few (thousand) to fill the system, then it just keeps using the same ones

[unique cypress]

The reason why I'm hating on this design is because it broke despite the pipes being correct. If I did the pipes wrong, I would be blaming myself, not the design

[vapid gorge]

then they were not correct.
You had a janky junction or mathed wrong or missed a connection.

now you have trauma around it or trying to cram priority mergers in like Google is with AI.

keeping fresh and waste waters is the most full proof method of doing things because it essentially cuts out all possible errors other than humans doing something wrong

it has low flow rates, very few connections - basically backflow proof unless you're doing dumb things like bottom feeding and they'll never clog

[wispy summit]

Feedback loops are the bane of my existence until I learned the math.

Calculating the waste water recycling is somewhat simple when one notice it is a geometric series.
But one can skip this step and jump into the refineries ratios.

#math-and-meta message

Then, as long as the ratio of refinery that uses fresh and waste water stays the same, one can overclock/underclock as necessary to use all the bauxite.

[gilded linden]

...priority merging liquids is super reliable though?

or am i not understanding? my aluminium plant uses recycled water first, and fills up with fresh, and it's spits out the designed out amount constantly, like clockwork

[dusky dust]

So long as the VIP is built properly, yeah; it's more that there's plenty of ways that folks can go wrong, and debugging those can be annoying

Though it is certainly possible, and will be solid once it's up

[gilded linden]

ah, PEBKAC

[dusky dust]

(it's possible that hypothetical future fluid system updates could end up breaking VIP junctions, too, though the "hypothetical" in there could be doing some heavy lifting)

[wispy summit]

I think mixing it is bound to introduce problems.

[dusky dust]

I'd say it's not entirely PEBKACy since so much of the fluid system is kind of opaque to the player. But yeah, once you do have it working it should be fine

I used to do it pretty frequently but got tired of all the debugging. I just do split systems now. :)

[gilded linden]

so it could. fluids definitely don't work like that IRL.

@wispy summit i have a plant that makes 7600 Al/min, rock solid, throughput monitors don't even quiver. it 100% relies on wastewater being used before fresh water, as im pumping a full 600 in one pipe, and priority merging the recycled water back.

If you mean IRL problems, like sediment, and stuff like that, yeah. if you mean game problems.. not since i set it up

[wispy summit]

Huh, so it can be reliable after all. I just dont mix it like you do.

[vapid gorge]

even if the VIP is build 'properly'
ive seen people replicate working examples and have them not work

it's an exploit after all

[gilded linden]

i built 17 of them in a row and every one worked perfectly the first time, so based purely on my experience, it should have a less than 6% chance of failing

[vapid gorge]

I mean recently there was a post about someone testing VIPs and found that the number of actual pipe segments above the VIP can alter behaviour. They are pure jank and have been disowned publicly by the inventor

[vapid gorge]

yes - and some times people keep building perfectly reasonable ones and dont work at all
sometimse they'll work half the time whne people build them

this is why it's 'unreliable' , because they can be replicated and not work

what you're talking about is the equivalent of survivor bias

'I never had a problem with this personally, thus the problem doesn't exist'

and if you want ot use VIPs? sure go for it. I just don't recommend systems like that to people who are trying to manage fluids.

besides, one edit to how pipe works and VIPS could just all die with a minor update

[vast coral]

Found a cool set up.

5 fresh water refineries produce 600 recyle water. That 600 can fill 3 refineries. Then add 2 more with fresh water (on a total seperate line). Now treat those 5 like the first five and you have a modular easily expandable set up.
The excess final 600 water? Easy. Got 3 oil nodes right below next to the water gonna make packaged water and sink it.

[vapid gorge]

gross, but you do you

[vast coral]

still working it, but it looks so cool :>

[limpid knot]

Could do diluted fuel, tbh.

[vast coral]

then how do I get rid of the excess fuel?

isn't that just replacing the water with fuel?

[limpid knot]

Fuel in to power. Or sink it, for better value than water.

Or send it by train for all those fancy alt ore refinery recipes. So many options.

[vast coral]

you sink it by packaging it right?

Or do fuel gens constantly run regardless if their power is being consumed or not?

[silent mortar]

how would i calculate to make the number just a whole number?

[limpid knot]

All power gen past Biomass runs constantly, whether used or not. You don't need to min-max the sinks too much, tbh. All in good time.

But yeah, you can only sink packaged fluids.

Diluted fuel makes for amazing power generation capacity though. With the oil undeveloped nearby, it's a great opportunity to get some serious power generation going.

[dusky dust]

Mostly folks just make use of underclocking/overclocking to get the exact number and not worry about it

Eventually you get to a point where it's effectively impossible to make everything a whole number, unless you're doing some least-common-denominator shit and making like 200x the material you actually need

For instance in that case, you can clock it in a variety of ways, but one way is just 9 Smelters running at 100% and then a tenth running at 68.1%

[vast coral]

oh well that is handy.

[dusky dust]

Or 8 running at 100% and the ninth overclocked to 168.1%

Basically whatever chunks of clocking you need to arrive at a total of 968.1%. :)

Although I'll also suggest one other reframing, which isn't going to get rid of the decimals but might still be convenient:

You've got four outputs coming out of those 968.1% worth of Smelter. It might be easiest to have four separate banks of smelters, each making exactly the amount of Ingots that those next steps need

Like, they can still be right next to each other and feeding from the same ore, but if you clock each group of four exactly, it might make the rest of the factory easier to build

[silent mortar]

im trying to build like a compact factroy

[dusky dust]

Sounds like you should make your "default" clocking 250% and only go down if needed, then!

[vast coral]

can you send a SS of what those ingots are going to?

[vast coral]

mk1 or mk2 belts?

[vapid gorge]

So clock it

[silent mortar]

what would be best?

[vapid gorge]

Usually just use your fastest belt

[vast coral]

do you have mk2 belts?

[silent mortar]

i got mk4

[vapid gorge]

So use that

Make a manifold

[vast coral]

so if you want to make it compact. You can feed all of those ingots onto the same belt line. Then just modular it out to all those machines?

[silent mortar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_9djz7Nm6w&t=410s im trying to build like this guys , i dont want to copy just inspired by his compact builds

[vast coral]

overclock everything to 250%

then the last smelter to get the last bit of iron ingots. Set it to whatever gives you last little bit you need. Export all the smelters onto the same belt, then modular style it to the machines in an order of your choice.

#1201555265942724758 is your best bet

[silent mortar]

1 last thing would i set the miner to exactly this number or round it up too like 300?

[still aurora]

Such pretty colors

[vast coral]

why not round it up?

you are already throwing a shard in there for the extra bit, minus well just take the extra no harm.

[vast coral]

ya color coding makes it easier to manage

[still aurora]

Isn't it annoying to manually color everything tho?

[vast coral]

color code one, middle mouse button will copy recipe and colors :>

[still aurora]

.....I didn't know that

[vast coral]

now ya do :)

[still aurora]

A Thought just occurred to me.

Splitting like 3000 oil is going to be annoying

Cuz it has to be seperate lines

Otherwise it hits max flowrate

Ughhhhhhhhh

[vast coral]

that is just 10 lines?

[still aurora]

Thats.....still alot of lines....and how the hell do I make those organized

That seems like chaos

[vast coral]

Belt highway. But for pipes?

[still aurora]

Ur the best 🙂

[vast coral]

I sent you my bps for the belt highway. You can use that same pipe layout basically.

[still aurora]

Probably but something tells me this pipe highway isn't gonna look very good

[still aurora]

How do I uhhhh

Use it

Wait nvm I just put it in the blueprint folder right

[vast coral]

Yes.

Along with using blueprint auto connect. makes transporting 10 lines of fluids quite easy along long distances.

[hushed silo]

given how fluids can just soemtiems work and sometimes not
NO

[vast coral]

then how would you transport 10 lines of fluid along a distance of lets say 1k meters?

[hushed silo]

why would i

[vast coral]

Regardless of the why. I am asking how.

[hushed silo]

hmm

packaged

drone or belt

[vast coral]

What if you have no oil near you for plastic?

[hushed silo]

steel canister

[vast coral]

So you are going to make canisters to transfer it?

Why not fill pipes, use valves, and transport it that way?

could also just use pumps to force it to keep going? if its in a straight line

[hushed silo]

if its gas then yea sure why not

[hushed silo]

yes

hey arent that hard to make and with them u can have exact numbers

plus imo its hard to make a decent decoration with 10 pipe pumps next to each other

also if u have overflow u can sink whats packaged

however if u insist

dont transport all off throughput at once

like if u have 600/m for pipe mk2 make it so it transports 450, or 500 for example

[still aurora]

Because I need like 3000m3 of oil

[still aurora]

That seems like twice the amount of work for the same oil

[hushed silo]

for whats holy why would u transport 3k oil

[still aurora]

I need 2261.25 oil for 400 fuel gens

I swear DO NOT tell me just go nuclear

But anyway

[hushed silo]

i didnt mean to say go nucular launch and be cool like ghost from starcraft 1

no

i meant to say why would u transport oil when u cant build on top of it or next to it

[still aurora]

I still have to split the lines

[hushed silo]

and whats next

[still aurora]

Those lines going into ALOT of refiners which make diluted fuel and turbo blend fuel

I also just realized....why would i refine the resin into plastic to make canisters yo sink. Shouldn't I just sink the resin

[hushed silo]

idk up to you with that one

[hushed silo]

is this like related to argument for why not to transport big ammounts of fluid over vast distances?

[still aurora]

Its why they asked it in the first place because I said I needed to transport it

Im the one making the 10 lines

[hushed silo]

u will be the one figuring out

why one of them doesnt work properly

[still aurora]

^

[still aurora]

This qas my original thought

But if each pipe is 600m3 thats ALOT of lines that has to split

[hushed silo]

sure thats unavoidable

however, dont transport it like in kilometers

[still aurora]

how should i then?

[frosty owl]

Just use nuclear

[still aurora]

@hushed silo just so you have an idea the oil in picture 2 has to be transported to the water side in pic one(the platform will be WAYYYYYYYY bigger obv so i do kindddddaaaa have to move it

[still aurora]

im assuming each pure oil node has to be its own line since its making 600m3 right?

[vapid gorge]

well you need at least 1 pipe per 600...

[still aurora]

well i need 4 lines total

assuming each line is 600

@vapid gorge if i need 75.375 refiners i make 76 and underclock it right

if there's more then 600m3 coming in. but its constantly split with junctions. will the flow rate still be 600? or will it even out

do the 4 lines have to be entirely independent?

[vapid gorge]

that's one of many options 🙂

[vapid gorge]

always make pipe systems ad indepdendent as possible

[still aurora]

So don't combine if i can avoid it?

[vapid gorge]

exactly.
and you can always avoid it 😛

[still aurora]

Well in that case I may need more lines......

19 refiners is 720 res

Also I've unlocked nuclear but in not even touching that till I can make the rods for it to be clean and thats a long ways off

This fuel project is more fun anyway

[vapid gorge]

breaking it down into sections that are less than 600 flow will also give you more leeway as you can get away with less than perfect pipes

[still aurora]

Thank you,i'll keep that in mind

[shadow sinew]

Instant Scrap is very nice, not only is it the best rate of aluminum, but the sulfuric production consumes exactly the water output, so don´t have to worry about stoppages in production needing me to come flush the system

[vapid gorge]

same rate as Sloppy + electrode. The benefit is it only needs a bit of oil instead of a bunch of coal/sulfur

[shadow sinew]

huh, actually yes, I wonder why satisfactory tools gave me that when I maximized scrap production, ig it´s the same, but for ties it usually prefer using minimum resources elsewhere

[vapid gorge]

couldn't tell you w/o seeing the linked plan 🙂

[shadow sinew]

in any case I wasnt planning to use sulfur, ig I´ll do sloppy+electrode for the rest I haven´t built yet, and do some leeched copper or something

[vapid gorge]

leached recipes are very.. niche. Sulfur isn't near most anything and you need a ton of sulfur to get much out of the alloys

I assume they added them in 1.0 to give another option to waste sulfuric acid from systems

[shadow sinew]

this is what it gives you by default when maximizing scrap for 100 bauxite without converters

Sulfur is really useless, if you aren´t using a lot of turbofuel anyway

[vapid gorge]

must hold oil as higher value I guess

[vapid gorge]

sure, but it's also never near anything you want to do .

[shadow sinew]

i do, but it´s 10 vs 66, im sure you can get more diamonds out of 66 coal

[shadow sinew]

it was actually ok, since I´m processing distiled silica right next to the 2 dune desert pure sulfurs

batteries are a thing, but they commit the cardinal sin of using aluminum

and things which go on elevator parts or a nuclear reactor are the only ones which will be forgiven of that crime on my save xd

[unique cypress]

It's because maximize mode is dumb and doesn't care about anything other than giving you the maximum amount. If there are multiple chains that give the same amount, it'll just give you one of them at random (or whichever it found first/last, or something). It does not consider at all how those chains compare to each other

[shadow sinew]

it always used pure recipes for example though, so I thought it tried to keep non bottleneck resources to a minimum too

[unique cypress]

Nope. The first screenshot is maximizing HMF from 900 limestone, all recipes enabled, only limestone, iron and water available

The second is the same, but asking for 25/min directly

The difference in iron usage is nearly double

[shadow sinew]

ig I got a couple in a row always like that and guessed that was always the case

[gilded linden]

nothing wrong using a train for it, you need at least 1 cart per 1200/min, add a few for good luck (so youre not operating right up against the limit), and increase the number of trains till happy.

[vagrant lynx]

What could be the cause of poor flow? My water extractors arent wanting to.hold water amd i have 4 coal gens in this formation, the ones furthest from the water extractors, that are burning more water than their getting

[unique cypress]

You need way more than 1 wagon for 1200 m³/min. The theoretical max is ~890 m³/min per platform, and that's not really achievable with more than 1 platform, at least not with fluids

[vagrant lynx]

I can not figure why it wont fill

[gilded linden]

Cunningham's Law saves the day. Thanks @unique cypress ❤️

[unique cypress]

Post more pics, specifically of the piping. Might also wanna move to your own #1038092680493801533 thread so it doesn't get buried here

[haughty iron]

Personaly not a big fan on front to back water connections but u can try placing some valves so the water wont flow back. also if im not wrong each generator is using 45 m3 water so that would be 360 total and it looks like your feeding it with 360 so there is no overflow to fill with. best tip check if the generators hit 100% efficentie if so and they maintain it then it is not a problem that they arent full.

[vagrant lynx]

I thought the diagram was how it's supposed to be for 3:8

[haughty iron]

it def will work like this especially if let them fill up i cant judge the height but if the pipe is higher then the generator you might get small headlift issues. and i would place the middel water extractor in the middle of the 2 pipes like in your diagram. also are those mk2 pipelines?

[vagrant lynx]

Mk1

[haughty iron]

mk1 has a limit of 300m3 so you cant feed it with 360 m3

if you palce the middle extractor in the middle of the 2 pipes you should get better flow

[vagrant lynx]

I was told this would work as well

[vagrant lynx]

My middle extractor is doing fine its the left and right ones not wanting to fill up

[haughty iron]

ya the middle is fine

cus its unbalanced

doing less then i should if you put a junction in between the 2 pipes that feed the generators it will feed 50% to the left pipe and 50% to the right right now 2 extractors profide 1 input on the 2 pipes. this setup can work but then you need to turn a off a coal generator until all pipes and machines are filled and even then you could run in to problems

[vagrant lynx]

I was told it wouldn't matter where the split was

[haughty iron]

only if they fill otherwise it matters

leme draw something to show u why

[vagrant lynx]

Half my factory is working despite my extractors and pipes not staying full.

[haughty iron]

it wont be running like this all the time but since the pipes are not full they take the full 300 if they can if the pipes are full the machines wont take more then 180 and rest will flow to the other side

here the middle might not split 50/50 constantly it can flux but it will mean the left and right gen are not filling each other

[vagrant lynx]

See this side is working to 100% efficiency despite the water extractors not staying full and the furthest pipes not staying full. No dips in power and a constant 1200mw

The otherside isnt doing this

[haughty iron]

let em fill

[oblique hollow]

it doesnt look like much but just add a pipeline pump at the bottom of both of the vertical pipes

the piping here wasnt done symmetrically.
And while it can work, an asymmetric network will result in asymmetric flow rates

the fact that the water extractors are filling up means they get interrupted and thats most likely something head lift related.
Its not very high here, but it is a network that doesnt have the simplest of jobs

[unique cypress]

Oh, yeah, that does look like it could need a pump. Extractors don't report if they're overloaded

[oblique hollow]

on flat ground this network would likely work without issue.
but as soon as theres any verticality the extractors might start struggling.
So adding pumps should be enough

[vagrant lynx]

So its not necessarily a bad thing hat the water extractors arent filling fully

[oblique hollow]

yes. why do you expect them to fill up?

Do you expect that to be needed for something? If you did - there isnt really ever a good reason for extractors to start filling up

If my miner mining iron started to fill up i wouldnt exactly call that "great" either

In any case: Extractors should not fill up.
If they fill up it means they fail to move the liquid they produce at an adequate rate

[vagrant lynx]

Makes sense now that I see it. Im worrying about the wrong thing. Ill lay my pipes out better so that the middle extractor is in between the 2 pipes for the coal gens

[oblique hollow]

Yeah. its not a big difference, but junctions DO try to merge and split fluid somewhat evenly between all sides (* big asterisk on this one).

and with verticality involved, it just might overpower the water extractors. they only have a max head lift of 10 m anyway

adding 2 pipeline pumps on the vertical pipe sections, near the very bottom, should also help

it takes a lot of strain off of the junctions.

[unique cypress]

I mean it's fine if the extractors fill up if they're set to produce more than you need.

I often don't bother to underclock them and leave them at 100%, which means they're producing slightly more than I'm consuming.

But coal plants are often perfectly ratioed for extractors at 100%, so they should neither fill up nor drain. Unless you're having coal issues, then ofc the water isn't gonna be consumed as it should be

[vagrant lynx]

Ill either rebuild the pipe layout so its symmetrical or add the pumps and consume a tiny bit more energy

[wind spade]

maximise doesn't optimise for raw resources though

[viral nexus]

does this work?

[shadow sinew]

it needs to be mk2 pipes for the 360 m3 assuming it´s 100% for the 3, but in theory yes, although I´ve always struggled to get fluid buffers to work

[dusky dust]

Fluid buffers are best avoided. Best-case scenario is that they don't cause problems

[viral nexus]

idont have mk2 pipes tho

i want to use them to decrease the number of pipes so its easier to manage in the future

im rebuilding my whole server so i want to be ready for the next milestones

[dusky dust]

That piping arrangement won't fully work with mk1 pipes because you're trying to send 360/min fluid down a pipe which only takes 300/min

With 8:3 coal gen arrangements with mk1 pipes, there's no getting around having to supply the water from at least two different spots

For some piping spoilers, search for CG on the wiki; there's some piping examples which will work fine

[viral nexus]

what if i do 8:4

[dusky dust]

But however you do it, don't use fluid buffers. :)

[viral nexus]

okay thanks

[dusky dust]

You still need to account for the mk1 pipes' 300/min throughout limit

[shadow sinew]

you miss out on 60 m3 you need to run those 8 gens at max capacity

[viral nexus]

do i really need 3 long pipes to work at max efficiency

[viral nexus]

i cant find piping examples on here

[dusky dust]

Near the bottom, in the images. On mobile at the moment or I'd link more directly

[wind spade]

why the storage?

[shadow sinew]

I still don´t remember to activate the HUB for FICMAS xd

these days I only really go to my HUB when I need an ammo refill and I always forget

[vagrant lynx]

Holy shit you were right. The issue was having double pipe on one side instead of on both sides of middle extractor. Working fine now, no pump needed

2400mw of power with 2100 free

[vagrant lynx]

Should I get the fused wire alt recipe or the iron pipe alt recipe

[unique cypress]

I'd take iron pipe 100%

[vagrant lynx]

Thats what I thought. Seemed really useful and actually lets me use one of my 120/min iron nodes specifically for it without needing steel and coal near it

[vapid gorge]

iron pipe chews through iron for barely any savings on coal - and coal+iron is the most common combo you'll get on the map

While fused wire can be more niche, it can be very powerful

[vagrant lynx]

Fair, I took iron pipe. Ill have 4 smelters for this one node so ill be making 120 iron ingots/minute. I should be able to merge the smelter lines into one constructor to im throwing in more than its chewing through. If the math works out

I can finally build what I need

[vapid gorge]

@dusk lance don't use fluid buffers, they'll just wreck your flow.
and I highly suggest jsut sticking to groups of 8 gens. Much easier to do layouts as you're learning

[dusk lance]

8 gens is what, 3 extractors ?

[dusk lance]

Was well pleased with my 3 coal plant setup, before I moved it closer to the water and added a 4th

Currently jt looks a but more like this, for the pipework. But if im going big, ill be planning out a layout for 8 gens and. Couple coal storage containers

[vapid gorge]

don't need coal buffers either 🙂 just feed it what it needs. Theres essentially never a reason to store ore or ingots

[dusk lance]

Fair fair

Also... looking up layouts for inspiration, and found this behemoth... but, thr pipes wouldn't allow for the flow over 300, right?

[vapid gorge]

it wouldn't and whoever made that didn't know anything about fluids

[dusk lance]

Lol, looks nifty though.

This seems like it'd work better

[vapid gorge]

that's still 3 extractors to 1 pipe though, doesn't have enough throughput

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

hence these diagrams - need 2 pipes to manage 8 gens

[dusk lance]

Saved that image for later reference, many thanks!

I'm thinking id go for the 3rd option

[vapid gorge]

this is basically just a modified version of the top two examples stacked on top of each other

[still aurora]

@vapid gorge now that im home, is this layout okay? or should i split it into 8 rows of 9? because the rows 19,but total heavy res is more then 600 so at somepoint it needs to split further

[vapid gorge]

you only need loops for inputs 🙂

[still aurora]

Well that loop is just there so I could have connected it. Otherwise the pipe couldn't connect. But i was talking about them being stacked on top

Also.....you need to loop inputs??

[vapid gorge]

just have either the top or the bottom pipe - connect it to there

[vapid gorge]

often

do an overhead shot with photomode, I'm a little worried about the layout with stacked pipes like this

[still aurora]

Alright

[vapid gorge]

are each of these using 600 oil or something?

[still aurora]

each line is using 600, but outputing more then 600 heavy res

so the output would have to be split between 2 lines

[vapid gorge]

ok so things that will make 600 flow pipes easier

1 fewer machines , fewer junctions

so having 10x refs on each side of a pipe with 2 per junctino is more stable. OCing them would do that to

side benefit each side would do 400 HOR , not going over 600 limits

You could OC the machines to just have 5 refs on each side of the pipe if you clock them to 200% each

[still aurora]

i assume when you mean side you mean row

but ur assuming i have enough powershards for that.....i do not

also wouldn't 400 HOR not be enough?

i need a total of 502

plus like 2000

which how do i even transport that 2010 HOR if it has to be split between 4 lines

follow up question why is it telling me to make canisters instead of sin king the polymer

[wispy summit]

Happy hunting, and dont forget to sloop the slugs.

[wind spade]

literal definition of "if I'll throw enough [stuff] at the problem, it'll definitely be solved"

[wispy summit]

Making the fluid ingredient a surplus is a simple way to make sure 100% uptime.

Unless the manifold need 600/min.

[wind spade]

eh, I'd say that with fluids it can go wrong more than if you had equal production and consumption

[wispy summit]

Really, how so?

My fluid manifold usually feeds from above so I never have problems even at max throughout.

And after preloading the machines, it is smooth sailing.

[still aurora]

making it a what

oh im dumb

[wispy summit]

You need 200, supply it with 240. Importantly, feed it from above.

[still aurora]

well io need like 2010 but each total row make 740. so i have to add another line halfway through

which the easiest way to do that seemed like stacking

[wispy summit]

And it wont work for intermediate products sadly. Unless you accept less products.

[wispy summit]

Split it more?

[still aurora]

yea thats why i asked if stacking was fine

[vapid gorge]

600 OIL Makes 800 hor doesn't it? 2x400 greoups

[still aurora]

Let's back up, the oil being made isn't the problem here that's as simple as just connecting pipes, the problem is the heavy res being made. That's what has to be split into another line

the line i showed you is heavy res

but yes

600 oil makes 800 HOR

thatt 800 HOR has to be split between 2 lines tho

so i was just going to stack it halfway

and put the line up top

[vapid gorge]

I mean I guess? but go back to what I was saying about having refs on both sides of the pipes

I think you ignored like 90% of what I was saying

[still aurora]

misunderstood

i almost never intentionally ignore

[vapid gorge]

and if you were doing this to have 2 pipes to have 400 each, don't connect them

[still aurora]

that ik, on the connect part. why would you loop the input?

@vapid gorge is this what you meant

[vapid gorge]

ok so the '2 refineries on each side' was specifically for hte inputs. Helps reduce slosh having fewer junctions

as for input loop ,feeding machines like this

[still aurora]

my input line shouldn't be a issue

[vapid gorge]

famous last words 🙂

the longer the manifold with the higher the flow and the more machines, the more back flow will likely happen

I'm just describing the most reliable ways of having stable fluids w/o having to tinker

[still aurora]

sooooo loop it?

[vapid gorge]

loop can help But I'd do both

plus OCing them cuts the machine count on the line too

[still aurora]

i don't have nearly enough power shards and going slug hunting sounds boring

[vapid gorge]

it's pretty easy. Sloop the slugs and you get an ass ton fast, up to you though

[still aurora]

wdym by sloop

[vapid gorge]

you find them at the same time as hard drives, spheres and all that

[vapid gorge]

alien tech, duplicates item production

you can stick slugs in a slooped constructor and double

1 purple slug is 10 shards for example

dinner! bbl

[still aurora]

do you know what i don't have? spheres sloops AND hard drives

i should prob destroy these hard drive places after looting them right

otherwisr ima forget i looted it

[still aurora]

@wind spade question. for the 2010 heavy res.....how do i split that if all my HOR is split 8 lines. and if i combine them my flow rate will be more then 600

[vapid gorge]

The hard drives and slugs are the most important . A couple sloops for the slugs

[still aurora]

@vapid gorge soooooooooo......two of these need to combine.....but i onlly need abt 200m3 from the one

[vapid gorge]

Wdym how you split it? Just don’t merge it all

Why do they need to combine?

[still aurora]

because it needs 502HOR and is only getting 360

each side is producing 360

but it needs to split into 502 twice and then the rest being made into fuel

WAIT

nvm

i can just junction into a valve

[vapid gorge]

no no no

no valves no merges

you have to design the entire set up to work with itself.

for example if you're producing sections of 400 hor make the section receiving 400 hor use that

if you have a side making 360 HOR? make sections that use 360

[still aurora]

😕

what

but this says 502.5

and whats wrong with valves

[vapid gorge]

they don't stop back flow and can wreck flow

share the actual link?

[frosty owl]

Would it be terrible to just change the machines?
There's 2 ways you can do this:

1. Changing the amount of machines in rows and their clocks, you can easily match the rows to the output needed from them
2. Changing just the clock of machines, you might be able to achieve the same result without modifying the placement of machines

Idea being: if machines are grouped or clocked differently, their outputs can just be merged and fed to the next production without needing to connect the outputs of different rows

[vapid gorge]

just clock groups of machines to produce exaclty what you need, for example, the 502.5 pm hor.
clocking is your most powerful logistic management tool you'll ever have

[still aurora]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=9ugC13qaCra1puKdTIfB

[still aurora]

clocking requires me to go and collect slugs and i don't want to go do that

[still aurora]

requires power shards i don't have

[frosty owl]

Only overclocking requires power shards ^^
Ie: if you're willing to change the shape of rows, downclocking and adding machines can allow you to match the rows' outputs to the next steps' inputs (without using slugs or pipe shenanigans)

[vapid gorge]

underclocking requri9es no slugs

[still aurora]

ima try and NOT change the shape of rows

but i may have to

[frosty owl]

Rebuild everything from the ground up so you can make smaller buildings/rooms, each with a full production chain inside (like producer + consumer in the same building, separating the "rows" in different buildings/rooms)
No biggie

(Tbh, some smart blueprinting could actually make rebuilding relatively quick)

[still aurora]

im just gonna use the line i have and split them

numbers might not be even tho

also i don't build on the ground cuz its uneven

[still aurora]

the solution is just go up!!

[devout stag]

My refinery is outputting 40 fuel/m. Normal fuel generator take in 20, I put in 2 power shards so it takes 40, but it's not getting enough fuel. Why?

the height difference isn't mroe than 10m

do lines need to be completely pressurized?

[oblique hollow]

pipes need to only be completely full when they are lower than the consumers because only full pipes can push fluid up vertically

check the refinery and see if it runs at 100% efficiency

or if the fuel output is backing up

or if theres resin clogging the belt output (if you use the oil-to-fuel recipe)

[devout stag]

what's fuel output backing up?

anyway it's running now. I turned off the fuel generator so the line could be filled then turned it on. maybe the issue is fixed now

[oblique hollow]

the fuel output is the slot of the refinery inventory where the produced fuel goes before it leaves the refinery

the output should practically always empty as soon as possible and fluid shouldnt stay in there.

[devout stag]

ah, it's the slot that shows up when I click on a machine to see its efficiency along with output and input

[oblique hollow]

yes that one.

[worn delta]

For my fuel factory setup is there a use case for fluid buffers at all? What use are they for...

[oblique hollow]

buffers are mostly for trains

[devout stag]

is the amount of liquid fluctuating in a line but never filling normal?

[oblique hollow]

yes.

the pipe doesnt need to fill completely because pipes only need to fill enough ti move the liquid fast enough

[worn delta]

Like filling the big ones with oil to transport somehwre else

[oblique hollow]

yes.
thats practically their only real use

[worn delta]

Ok thanks.

[oblique hollow]

and thats only because train stations dont accept or output fluids while docking

[kindred carbon]

Buts it’s a bad way to transport oil

Use a cluster of 450 pipes

[oblique hollow]

Skill issue

if you can do it and you wanna do it go for it lol

if you cant do it and fail trying to do it THEN its the bad way

[worn delta]

I'm trying to figure out.How to get enough coal and sulfur to my fuel plant wondering if a train would keep the machines full enough of material

[kindred carbon]

Trains for items is good

[oblique hollow]

are you making compacted coal?

[kindred carbon]

Nitro rocket fuel >

[worn delta]

That is the plan yes , my plant is on the west coast islands

There is one coal and sulfur node each withing a few hundred meters but that isn't enough

[oblique hollow]

coal and sulfur can usually be found near each other.
you can turn them into compacted coal first and then transport that

reduces transport volume

[kindred carbon]

Compacted coal stacks in 200 right?

[oblique hollow]

100

[worn delta]

I need 1067 per minute lol

[oblique hollow]

my point stands

[worn delta]

I only have mk2 miners and mk4 belts

[oblique hollow]

so? 3 belts it is

just get a lot of nodes

process it all into compacted and then somehow move 3 belts worth of compacted to your factory
otherwise you would need to move twice as much as coal and sulfur

[worn delta]

Bring coal and sulfur to central location make compacted coal and train it over?

[oblique hollow]

It can be central or many decentralized facilities

[worn delta]

I've only done one train so far would like to keep.it simple.

[oblique hollow]

if theres like... 3 coal+sulfur nodes in the dune desert and 3 in the northern forest, i would process it in the desert and the forest seperately

just an example

[worn delta]

I got ya

Would making an initial buffer of a couple of containers help since train has to take x tims

[oblique hollow]

thats the use of industrial containers

a single one per freight platform is usually enough

always use both belt connections on a platform and connect both to the container inputs (or outputs, depending on if that station is pickup or dropoff)

[vagrant lynx]

Bolted iron plates or stitched iron plates

[unique cypress]

Stitched 100%

Especially with iron wire

[royal bramble]

If you have steel screws and mk 3 belts, bolted works well
(but based on what I've seen I might be in the minority in thinking so 😄 )

[unique cypress]

It's expensive and doesn't even save space

I see no reason to do that

[royal bramble]

It does if you have steel already set up 🤷‍♂️
(and don't have stitched plate)

[vagrant lynx]

Ive got 3 120/min coal nodes that I want to bring over to my iron so I can make a small factory for steel beams, also going to use that iron factory to also make iron plates. So its steel beams and iron plates all in one smallish area

Would i better off just bringing a single coal node over?

[kindred sky]

There is the advantage that each machine produces 3x the plates for the cost of slightly more screws. If you needed 30 reinforced per minute it would be 2 assemblers rather than 6. For small setups though, other recipes are better imho

[wind spade]

Whichever you like more for given situation

There's never a "better" or "worse"

[vagrant lynx]

Fair, just trying to consolidate my area a bit, right now just trying to get steel beams and reinforced iron plates automated

[wind spade]

in general, how useful a recipe is for you, only you can decide

[vagrant lynx]

True, I dont have the recipes available yet. Just getting the consensus for them.

Also coal gens burn coal at a rate of 15/min right?

[royal bramble]

yes

[wind spade]

well, the same as I said applies to other as well - sure I can give you my opinion or preference about the recipes, but that doesn't make it helpful in any way, as your playstyle is most likely different than mine and your preferences, goals and available resources are as well

[vagrant lynx]

So i could use a node for 120/min and could split off of it and then split off of it again so 30/min goes into the coal gen while I use the rest for wherever?

[gilded linden]

👓 purely for the sake of pedantry, there's generally a better and a worse, there isn't a right and a wrong

[wind spade]

no.

there's better for given purpose. There's not "always better"

[gilded linden]

i agree - if it were always better, it would be the right choice, better and worse depends on context

there seems to be a finer semantic hair to split here than i thought

[wind spade]

which is my point 🙂 usually people ask "what is better" or a variation of this. While I sometimes do ask them for what purpose, sometimes I just tell them "there's no better or worse", but both of these replies are intedend to have same meaning and point the OP in the direction of "oh, I should look at it myself and decide what I like"

[gilded linden]

absolutely fair, I was just being an annoying little shit about it 😅

[wind spade]

oh, don't worry, you weren't. (actually, some people say that to me for not telling them a direct straight answer like "X recipe is better")

[vapid gorge]

Nice and compact, less logistics

I like combining bolted plate and frames

[devout stag]

reading this is making me thinking twice about asking

[vapid gorge]

asking what specifically?
as long you describe what you want out of a recipe you can compare to a degree

[wind spade]

compare recipe paths

[devout stag]

More about arranging things. I have 8 smelters. I want to make parts for a motor ( I know I need stuff other than iron). I was thinking about how many constructors I want for each part, and then I thought of simply merging all the belts into one big belt of iron ingots and then split that up so that -in a way- nothing lags behind considerably

I think it has a name. Manifold?

[vapid gorge]

well the easiest thing to do is work bacwards from your goal

if you have 3 types of machines that just need iron ingots, and your belt is fast enough, one belt does the trick.

just a layout choice

[devout stag]

how I split the belts doesn't matter, right? since it'll balance out eventually

[vapid gorge]

all a manifold system cares about is

1. enough parts per min for the system
2. a fast enough belt

(for belts anyway)

[wind spade]

(and the first one is not even technically true, manifold will "work" no matter if you do or don't have enough)

[vapid gorge]

but the system won't run as designed

[wind spade]

you just won't get full efficiency out of your machines (but that isn't specific to manifolds)

[devout stag]

what's the alternate to manifolds called? load balancer?

[wind spade]

well, it's not just those two options

but yeah, balancers are often used as an example of a different approach

[gilded linden]

manifolds work better with smart splitters to fill up every machine before doing the next

[wind spade]

uh, "better" is very arguable

[gilded linden]

production starts up way slower, but output is consistent

[wind spade]

you don't really care about consistent output though

[gilded linden]

i have 16 smelters in a row, i feed it ore for 13. it outputs more ingots/min with 13 machines than with 16, sice the last 3 keep starting and stopping

with smart splitters it doesnt matter than i have 16 in a row, since the last 3 are never used

[wind spade]

I mean even with them starting and stopping, you have consistent output

[gilded linden]

fair, but it's consistently lower than it should be

[wind spade]

no, it's still output of 13 machines worth of production

[gilded linden]

how so? there's a startup time for a machine no?

[wind spade]

sure, but it'll average over time

the startup time doesn't really matter

[gilded linden]

i see the logic in what youre saying, but i never saw the promised 390/min output in the factory i mentioned, it was consistently lower

[wind spade]

that definitely isn't the fault of not having smart splitters though

[gilded linden]

but that fixed it

[wind spade]

most likely as you were rebuilding it, you accidentally fixed the issue you had before

[gilded linden]

in place replacement of the splitters

the blueprint next to it was fixed by deleting three smelters

[wind spade]

because that realistically doesn't make sense, if you're not making 100%, then you're also consuming less than 100%, which means there should be overproduction of the ingredient

[gilded linden]

...which should eventually average out into making the same amount; yeah i follow the logic, it's just not what i saw. i can go back to that piece of factroy and do some experiments

[wind spade]

the thing is, smart splitters don't change anything about this logic

so they don't really change whether it works or doesn't either

it's also possible the manifold just wasn't filled fully and it filled up as you were rebuilding it

[unique cypress]

? production reaches 100% faster with smart splitters.

but also, the production is consistent regardless

[gilded linden]

consistent, but wobbly

[vapid gorge]

out put is consistent either way once it spins up to 100%

[dusk lance]

Will the math for this work? I know you said 3 to 8, but I went overkill and 4 to 8, I have no doubt raw volume should be fine, but I'm pushing 4 extractors through 2 pipes each pipe feeding 4 coal generators. Would this hold up, or would it crash n burn after a while?

Just wondering would it be better to do 1 pipe per 2 generators, meaning 4 input pipes, each split for 2

Used that place you suggested @vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

hard to tell? probably?

no reason to do 4 though

[dusk lance]

Mm oki. I'm just thinking anyway, not final plans

[vapid gorge]

could jsut do this

[dusk lance]

Could, but i want that yummy aesthetics going on. Lol

[vapid gorge]

sure

be ready to plan around fluids for architecture rather than the other way around later - coal generators are extremely tolerant of bad piping unlike future systems

[dusk lance]

Good to know, thanks for the heads up

[dusk lance]

Steady 600. Plenty for now, lol

If i tie this with my other 4, that'll be 900

[mossy shard]

weird question if anyone knows: if i have a really long pipe with a gap at the start, and i connect that gap, will the end instantly (partially) fill or is there a set speed fluid can flow

[dusky dust]

It will take some time, definitely not instant

[mossy shard]

that begs the question are mk2 faster then mk1

[dusky dust]

And I suspect that it'll be awhile before you get full throughout out of it, though I admit it's been a real long time since I've had direct experience with really long pipes

[mossy shard]

now i wonder if its programmed so if you have a drop at the end, the fluid will teleport to the end due to headlift shenanigans

[dusky dust]

The fluid's got to make it through all the intermediate pipes first; I'd be a bit surprised

[worn delta]

Yeah when I hook up a new set of generators I wait until the machines and pipes are full beofre turning them on takes a few minutes but not too long

[frosty owl]

Pipe work per pipe segment, not per pipeline. Each segment takes/gives fluid from/to the next based on their own fill level, headlift and pressure iirc

[brave quarry]

so i have 10 extra heavy oil in my system whats the best way to get rid of it

[ancient mauve]

Convert it into something else

[hushed silo]

package and sink

[ancient mauve]

Either as sink product or fuel to burn

[brave quarry]

can i burn the oil directly or does it have to be turned to fuel

[pastel obsidian]

petro coke, fuel and burn

[unique cypress]

Nah, never package HOR to sink. Just turn into coke and sink that. Or do something useful with it

[hushed silo]

ah yea

coke exists

[naive narwhal]

i'm too sleep deprived to leverage my free will, someone tell me if fertile uranium alternate is useful or trash?

[unique cypress]

It's only useful if you want to get more plutonium for some reason. Specifically Plutonium. It will not give you more power per uranium ore than just making more uranium rods

[hushed silo]

is this the one where u put uranium ore into it?

[naive narwhal]

yea

[hushed silo]

its trash

[naive narwhal]

hmm, more plutonium is kiiinda useful now i have full clean processing online

i feel like its definitely a better recipe than electric motor (my other choice) - i can't see how that's doing anything but burning up my caterium

[hushed silo]

electric motor u might do just bcs ur sleep deprived will slipped

fertile uranium u will never do

rescan or leave it

[unique cypress]

Imma be honest I've used electric motors way more times than fertile uranium

More plutonium is usually the opposite of what I want

[naive narwhal]

huh, guess it's motor then

[unique cypress]

Electric motor goes well with turbo electric motor

[naive narwhal]

i'm onto my last 50 or so hard drives anyway so i'll get them all eventually

[unique cypress]

50 HDDs is basically half of them lol

[naive narwhal]

ah yea, got the number mixed up with the spheres

roughly 20% left

thanks for the input anyways o7

[wind spade]

Flip a coin 🙂

[dusky dust]

Heh, well, you've already had a few responses, but one more: definitely not trash thought it is a bit of a trap

As KYO297 mentioned, technically if you take the extra uranium and send it to the original Uranium steps instead, you end up with a bit more power. ie: less Plutonium, but more Uranium to compensate (though when using all other alts, the difference isn't that huge)

So from a power-per-Uranium perspective, it's not the best, especially since it's "cheaper" to make Uranium than it is Plutonium

Though if you've, for instance, already set up Uranium, and don't want to make more Uranium, and want the most power possible out of your existing nuclear, then Fertile definitely gives you a ton of Plutonium to use

[naive narwhal]

welll unfortunately i have found out today that the waste processing i thought i'd over spec'ed is actually barely enough to deal with my existing nuclear, and now i have a ton of ficsonium ikea lampshades just sitting around making my brand new portal hub radioactive... I winged it way to hard, didn't check anything externally... so for now, no more plutonium burning 😢

[oblique hollow]

Ypu can literally delete those by dragging them in the trash in your inventory

Awesome sink doesnt take em but your own trash can? perfectly fine apparently

[naive narwhal]

well damn i guess i just assumed... thanks for the heads up 👍

[vagrant lynx]

Managed to get solid steel Ingot recipe. Should make a small steel beams factory super easy to math/map out

[stoic gorge]

Im using 75 for a building. I will need another 100 for another project. I could set this to 175 and do a overflow smart splitter, but having in mind that my factory using the 75 is most likely not 100% efficient which is a more reliable way to get this 100p min isolated?

[wide drum]

i think i misunderstood how splitters work, why doesn't it evenly split 75u/min in 3 directions?

[cedar folio]

That chart just shows how much needs to go where, not how to actually divide it up.

[limpid knot]

You can manage that by making sure the next machines that process are clocked at 135/45/45 per minute, respectively. Then the lines will back up until they are balanced. Same idea as a manifold, which you could also just do. One feed to three splitters on clocked machines.

[wind spade]

Realistic mode in SCIM is pretty crap, wouldn't recommend following it

[muted glade]

i swear these do actually make sense and have meaning

[vapid gorge]

yeah don't use 'realistic' view on scim - it's ... really bad

[vapid gorge]

yeah, it's your short hand and collumns. I'd hope they have meaning to the person who made them

[hushed silo]

when Greeny's tools dont show any screws after hitting "maximize" then its a telling sign

[wind spade]

a sign that "maximize" doesn't optimise for anything and you should change it back to items/min

[hushed silo]

still the same outcome

[wind spade]

but you should still switch back to items/min always

[hushed silo]

well in this case its the same

[vapid gorge]

interesting combo of recipes. I'd prob just do iron wire and regular iron ingots. Cut out copper entirely

[hushed silo]

its location specific

probably why the way it is

[wind spade]

also quite a lot of HMFs 🙂

[hushed silo]

so how does the maximize work anyway bcs other times i used it and it didnt care that much for efficiency

[wind spade]

it just finds any path that leads to most possible output

[hushed silo]

so its chat gpt equivalent of "yes man steroids are good for you"

[wind spade]

well not really

the output is indeed max possible. Just the way to get there might not be the most resource efficient

[hushed silo]

it does interesting things when i add other things to production line

[wind spade]

wdym

[hushed silo]

i added 100 motors/m and it does things like copper rotor, electromagnetic control rod, fused quirkwire, steel cast plate and so on

[wind spade]

copper rotor is great

other ones are also pretty good

[hushed silo]

but damn

after 100 hmf i thought this was done

and i can just add 225 motors

is this the power of copper rotor

[wind spade]

yeah copper rotor is cheapest in terms of weighted resources

[hushed silo]

is this worth utilizing 8% of worlds caterium tho

[vapid gorge]

caterium for HMF? hadn't considered it. Probably wouldn't use it myself

[hushed silo]

cause all those electroncis are great but those can be made without caterium

[hushed silo]

the motors

[vapid gorge]

oh, what recipes are you using?

[hushed silo]

electric motor
copper rotor (goat turns out)
Electromagnetic Control Rod
Quirkwire Stator
also some caterium goes to Fused wire for Stitched Iron Plate

oh an AI limiter is made from fused quirkwire too

[vapid gorge]

I like this combo as a generalist production line. Only uses 3 resources https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=iLguMTwRJhVoHLmVoDdz

[hushed silo]

question would be, is it worth to use caterium for motors and turbo motors knowing they can be done without them

[vapid gorge]

iron and coal are super common - just need to find the quartz

[vapid gorge]

up to you - do you have a need for it other places?

but with the link I shared this makes 10 motors pm, good trade imo

[hushed silo]

rigor motor enjoyer

[vapid gorge]

I think the trade for a bit of quartz really is worth the value

[hushed silo]

hmmm apparently not bcs the way i made plan for uranium yesterday fisconium wont need that much caterium so turns out i dont need to stres about it

[vapid gorge]

up to you 🙂

I'll often use a combo of caterium and quartz based recipes in electronics things just to spread out the impact on both types

but thats for BIG computer factories

[hushed silo]

so how do you make super computer then

and computer

these ones i havent draw out myself yet

[vapid gorge]

depends on my needs really.

I made an interesting combo of silicon CB + crystal comp

with the quartz purification and silica distilation recipes. That was neat

you can also make Super computers entirely from Caterium and Oil if you want

[hushed silo]

quartz purification is definately itneresting choice

alright then, i will come back to drawing board

[vapid gorge]

it looks like a fun chain xD

and you do get more total silica+crystal from the quartz , the trick is needing both

[hushed silo]

to be honest im mentaly blocked bcs of nitrogen usage and potential silica from aluminum

[vapid gorge]

wdym?

as in using bauxite from the alum? it's an option. I've never designed a factory system that comboed those two things well together myself

[hushed silo]

i mean that i dont like the idea of using nitrogen to process quartz even tho its the best way because i struggle with my histerical appraoch to nitrogen
and the other one well you can get somewhat free silica from processing bauxite however it gives u less* aluminum to work with later on so i might drop the idea

[vapid gorge]

Well, nitrogen is a bit of a trash resource - tons of it on the map without much use

and just droning nitrogen is very easy

[hushed silo]

idk about that
u need nitrogen for uranium, some RF, fused frames and turbomotors, turbomotors u dont need that much tho however frames depends on how much later stuff u wanna make related to Bali Warp Drive or Plutonium/Fisconium

[vapid gorge]

oh sure but there's still TONS of N gas on the map

[hushed silo]

hmmm

now that i look at it

u dont need that much to make alot of fused frames

[hushed silo]

12k

ig sommersloop Nacid Blenders

[vapid gorge]

eh, if you want. I think 12k gas is more than enough on it's own

[wind spade]

most "maxed map" builds have excess nitrogen leftover