math-and-meta

[wind spade]

@inner knoll it's technically 4000 water because game counts in liters, not m3

[crimson moat]

consuming 150 million liters per min atm

[pastel obsidian]

No wonder they use so much electricity

[inner knoll]

Ah, okay

[crimson moat]

Google says that a 2.5 GW nuclear plant circulates about 240m3 of water per minute (which matches the satisfactory value exactly), however almost all of that is recovered and cycled back, with only <5% to under 1% of it being expended

so satisfactory plants use 20-100x more water than real

[frosty owl]

Ficsit might not waste, but they know what would have happened if they tried to force water recirculation on pioneers

[crimson moat]

It's all internal in the building 😄

[frosty owl]

It'd be funny to find out that was actually pulling data from our wiki for that

[crimson moat]

seems mainly from 20 different people asking the question on quora 😄

but yeah i don't really trust those even as ballpark figures

I guess we boil 1/4 of the water and use a magical portal to make the other 75% of it disappear

[mint girder]

am i doing these signals wrong??

[dusky dust]

If you're using path signals, you put them on the routes into the intersection (with block signals on the way "out")

In that image in particular, the placement of the Path signals would imply that the top cross rail (the one going left-to-right) is "right-hand drive", since the incoming path signals are found on the righthand tracks. Whereas the rails coming in from the bottom would appear to be left-hand drive

If you do happen to have different sections of rail which have different handedness for driving, I think that first-image intersection would actually work, though most folks like keeping the handedness the same throughout their rail network

(not exactly sure what's going on in that second image, but keep to that mantra: path signals "in," block signals "out"

If this is your first time doing signals, btw, you can always just only use Block Signals for now. Things will still work fine. Once you're more comfortable you can "upgrade" an itersection to path signals to potentially improve its throughput a bit

[mint girder]

i made another intersection with path and blocks and that works just fine

the whole train network should be right hand

[dusky dust]

Okay, so the path/block placement would be wrong on the rails coming up from the bottom

Trains'd be arriving on the righthand side, and they'd want a Path Signal going into the intersection instead

[mint girder]

wdym

[dusky dust]

The arrows you drew on that one are left-hand drive, btw

I was mostly focusing on the first image, the T-intersection

If those rails coming in from the bottom are left-hand-drive, and they're merging onto rail which is right-hand-drive, then the path signals are probably right. But as I say, most folks like to keep the same handedness throughout

[mint girder]

so id just have to move the train stations to the bottom?

pointing the other way right

[unique cypress]

1.1's signal bug might cause signals to error out when they have no reason to. If a signal is placed right where rails merge/split and the rail color before and after is the same, the signal needs to be moved at least 1 rail segment away from the split/merge

[dusky dust]

Okay, so yeah, that does look like you've just got a kind of switchover there. If your main rail network is righthand drive, and you do a switchover to left-hand-drive for these three stations, I assume that probably should work fine (and the path signals on the intersection in that first image would be, I think, correct)

[mint girder]

oh ya 😭 forgot you told me last time

yeah that fixed it

[fallow jetty]

i love and HATE planning mega factories how do you guys even plan this stuff man its so confusing

[alpine steeple]

draw.io

[fallow jetty]

not even that im just trying to maximize consumption but the math is getting all jumbled in my head, tried using notes ended up looking like sphagetti

[mint coral]

Break it down into sections.

Separate tiers by floors and lots of planning

[alpine steeple]

trust me search it up u can make a flow chart for the maths

[unique cypress]

the best idea is not to do that

megafactory-style building is only for people who specifically want it

if you don't like it, don't do it

[fallow jetty]

thats the thing

i LOVE building but the functionality part is fun aswell its just the math gets frustrating but that aside i do enjoy the feeling when it comes together lol

[unique cypress]

use a calculator then

[alpine steeple]

just press n

[fallow jetty]

This is the size of the flowchart

I might try to break it down into similar parts per item

[alpine steeple]

what u making?

[fallow jetty]

mall

for every item

[alpine steeple]

tbh i like to just automate everything i can from constructors first then just belt over what i need

tho thats not that efficent

[fallow jetty]

im trying to do the opposite where i belt out rather than in for example heavy modular frames need modular frames so id belt half the modular frames out and the rest into the heavy if that makes sense?

[alpine steeple]

yh

just over produce then

[fallow jetty]

thats what i want to do but getting ratios and quantities is where im struggling

considering that im building 10 parts simultaneously

[alpine steeple]

tbh i always work bottem up much easier so i cant rlly help sorry

[fallow jetty]

its alright plus game crashed i guess its a sign for me to start over LOL

appreciate the help tho

[dusky dust]

Expanding on advice you've already gotten: even if you are planning on producing a bunch of stuff in the same area/building, you'll have a much easier time if you break it up

Have separate subfactories, one per product

They could be right next to each other or on separate floors or whatever, but if you isolate them from each other, planning gets a lot simpler

[fallow jetty]

yeah thats what im gonna try to do now but im gonna try to produce as much as i can of seperate items together since if they require similair materials its easier for to me set up as ive done ti before

[fallow jetty]

yeah that was the plan im thinking of seperating them by floor tbh

[dusky dust]

Sure, it means that you're probably making rotors in like a dozen different places in the building, but who cares? It's still the same amount of Rotor production, just much easier to deal with

(Rotors picked as an arbitrary example)

[fallow jetty]

yeah

i get you dw, appreciate the help once again

@dusky dust fyi this is my megabuild im trying to store everything here thats why im trying to cram lol incase you were wondering

[hoary pulsar]

Using a manafold how many canisters do I have to put until I get a circuit of this type ?

[alpine steeple]

water stacks to 500 right?

[hoary pulsar]

Yes

500 empty + 500 fuel + 500 water?

[alpine steeple]

couple thousand

keep a bin nearby and if they ever stop cuz of lack of canisters just add a few more

[unique cypress]

1.5-3k I think

More than that and you risk clogging it

[jovial wyvern]

This power plant I built, which is pretty similar, required around 2500 empty canisters for the packaging loop.

[hoary pulsar]

Is running non stop

This is the first of 4 section

1600 fuel/min

[alpine steeple]

@cobalt drift one of these

[cobalt drift]

What are those?

[alpine steeple]

splitters

[cobalt drift]

Regular splitters?

He was struggling with one miner one smelter and two constructors. Idk if I can have him do that 😂

[alpine steeple]

yh

[daring thunder]

Instant plutonium is more cells per waste than the basic recipe, right?

Just making sure my maths right :3

I thought I did it a while ago and it was the other way around

[proper pier]

Yes, more cells per waste but doesn't it also use more uranium?

[daring thunder]

Instant plutonium does not use more uranium.

I think your thinking the fertile uraniumn recipe for non-fiss

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it's Fertile which takes more uranium. That does give you more Pu rods, but if what you're going for is max power per uranium, you're better off spending the uranium on the U Rod line instead (though the difference isn't huge)

But in general all the nuclear alts will yield more rods from the starting uranium/waste, compared to vanilla recipes

[worldly island]

Okay I'm trying to set up a rocket fuel power plant in the blue crater. Could anyone tell me how much fuel a plant uses per minute? I'm trying to do the math on how much of various resources I need and what the bottlenecks are.

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch rocket_fuel

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=rocket_fuel

[vapid gorge]

you have the recipes in your codex and the wiki available to you

[vapid gorge]

also very useful to make plans and do the math for you ---> https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[worldly island]

recipes in the codex but it doesn't tell me how quick it burns.

[vapid gorge]

look at the fuel generators. the number of fuel gens isn't part of the 'making RF

[tired gazelle]

Does this look good for what it is? ill probably build a better plant when i finish the game or get mk6 belts, Im making this now because i need more power for my latest factory

[worn delta]

With 600 coal per minute I could run 40 generators ?

[vapid gorge]

whatever 600/15 is, sure

[pastel obsidian]

You can but you might want to look into fuel generators

[worn delta]

My brain is getting fried from this game lol not like I have room for 40 lol

[worn delta]

I don't have any of that unlocked yet.

[vapid gorge]

unless you build in a cave, you always have room

and if you're building in a cave, you've gotta reevaluate your life

[worn delta]

Wow with stacking do.you ahve to use the things that push the water ?

[vapid gorge]

pumps for headlift? Always need enough headlift for the job

[worn delta]

Would it be one pump per extractor ?

Or height play into that

[vapid gorge]

no, they don't stack. So for example is a pump per pipe

you can zoom in on hte images here

[bright juniper]

...whoops

...though I'm also building in the titan forest

[vapid gorge]

lots of space

clear some trees

[bright juniper]

You can't clear the big trees though

[harsh wharf]

Pro tip for noobs - You can tap spacebar on the crafting bench instead of holding to auto craft stuff while you tab out and watch tutorials or something lol

[vapid gorge]

build around - lots of space

[unique cypress]

It tells you its energy content. Which can be used to calculate how fast it burns.

And in the case of rocket fuel, that is actually the most accurate way of getting the burn time, because both the fuel gen UI and the wiki show a rounded value.

[wind spade]

Even more pro tip - automate instead of handcrafting 🙂

[unique cypress]

#design-and-architecture

[fallow jetty]

oh mb thoguh i was on that chat ^^'

[orchid brook]

If i got a decimal number, do i round up or down?

[unique cypress]

preferably neither

[orchid brook]

Like if i have to for example stetched iron plates

[pastel obsidian]

set the production number and call it a day

[vapid gorge]

machines read up to the fourth decimal - are you talking about repeating decimals?

[unique cypress]

I still don't know what the issue is

[orchid brook]

this for example

so this is the entire thing

so what i am asking is do how much iron ingots do i bring

[vapid gorge]

you bring in the number it says

[unique cypress]

as many as modeler says?

[vapid gorge]

it's 'per minute' so deimals are meaningless

[orchid brook]

so 5848.18 or 5849?

and also how do i split it acrros the machiens?

[vapid gorge]

if it says 5848.18 pm, you bring in that many pm

[vapid gorge]

thats part of layout planning

it's often easier to work backwards from the end point, breaking it up into groups that way

[orchid brook]

that is what i did

[unique cypress]

up to you. I'd use a belt mixer

[orchid brook]

what is that?

[vapid gorge]

something that's silly and a lot of work. You can just clock machines to output the numbers you need on the belts you need

[unique cypress]

this fkin thing #math-and-meta message

[vapid gorge]

what's your fastest belt?

[unique cypress]

automatically distributes items so you don't have to think about it

[unique cypress]

it's a lot less work than doing math

[orchid brook]

1200

[vapid gorge]

oh well each of these groups of machiens could just be 1 belt

[orchid brook]

oh god no pls

[vapid gorge]

just clock the constructors to use what they need

[unique cypress]

it's actually simple to build

[orchid brook]

ya that is wayy ezier

[orchid brook]

then send a blueprint or a vid

[vapid gorge]

and then merge the machiens as you need 🙂 clock them to put the right parts per min as needed

[orchid brook]

ya this like planned so when i have the max belts and automated power shards

i replaned phase 5, 5 times so i can skip on decimals as much

[unique cypress]

I have neither because I invented it lol (I think)

it's just a bunch of manfolds though

[orchid brook]

can u make one and also how and what does it do

[unique cypress]

it automatically distributes items across belts.

you feed it a random mix of belts and automatically get any other arrangement of belts you need

the belts just have to be allowed to back up to be able to overflow

[vapid gorge]

they can look like this

[orchid brook]

no thanks

[unique cypress]

that looks nothing like the one I linked

that's probably a balancer, not a mixer

not necessary here

[unique cypress]

Yeah, I have no clue what that is. why are there mergers on the input?

[vapid gorge]

there's really not much difference from a belt 'mixer' and 'balancer'. At least not in anything I've ever seen posted on here.
Mixers just.. mix the belts up evenly.

[unique cypress]

mixers don't mix belts evenly. that's why they're much simpler to build than balancers

balancers are only really needed for trains

inside a factory, there is no functional difference

[orchid brook]

these are gone be my main factorys in my world

Fuel

Plactic (WIP)

alummunuim

main phase 5

and the other 2 are still not planned yet

[orchid brook]

if something uses 300.65 iron ore do i bring 300 ore or is that gone miss thing about?

[unique cypress]

if you give something that needs 300.65 iron 300 iron, you're gonna get 99.78% of what you want

[orchid brook]

and would that the entire factory?

[unique cypress]

@mint girder if you mix trap and crystallization, you can use up all DMR exactly

[unique cypress]

of course? like I don't know how you're expecting to get exactly what you want while giving it less resources than it needs to make that amount

[orchid brook]

Ik but can that like effect the end result by a lot?

[unique cypress]

it's gonna cut the output by at least 0.2%

[orchid brook]

ok

[unique cypress]

might only decrease one of the outputs by more than that, depending on how you connect things

but if that deficiency is distributed among all outputs, then it's gonna be 0.2% of all of them

more, if the deficiency is concentrated on one of the products

[unique cypress]

you wouldn't have this issue if you used mixers, you know

[worthy finch]

Can anyone explain the functions of train Block and Path Signals to me?

[orchid brook]

well then i am gone need to bring in that .65 somehow cuz its like making a part for the rest of the entire factory

[orchid brook]

ok fine i will

not

[unique cypress]

https://docs.ficsit.app/satisfactory-modding/latest/CommunityResources/TrainSignalGuide.html

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Train_Signals

[mint girder]

ooo interesting ty

[worthy finch]

Ok thanks

[open sorrel]

Iam good with power for a while?

I do have the option to add a third coal generator.

[hasty marsh]

Add 7

[bright juniper]

the factory must grow

[open sorrel]

Only have mats for 3 for now. I can expand later

[wind spade]

decimals are the same numbers as non decimals

[orchid brook]

huh?

[wind spade]

if you have machine making 70 and machine that needs 90, how do you connect those? you clock one or both so that they make/need the same amount.

Same goes for decimals, if you have machine making 3.75 and machine that needs 5.25, you clock one or both so that they are equal 🤷

[orchid brook]

Ohhhh wait facts

[proud shoal]

are there any train signal cracks here? We got this layout for 4 Train Stations and we cant figure out how to make this work, could anyone help us out with that? Signals always complaining that it loops into itself. This is the sketch we made of it:

Here are ingame Screenshots:

[short jungle]

is it wise to use all the bauxite on the map for aluminium?

[wind spade]

show with segment colors

also that station is super weird 😄

[unique cypress]

If you plan on actually using all of it, sure. If not, then no, not really

[brisk smelt]

sure

it takes a nonlinear amount of effort to build more than to go back again and expand a factory

if you're a lazy bum u can also use the excess on ficsite ingots to save some effort

[brisk smelt]

wtf is that lmao

[dusty shoal]

Hello I read a reddit saying the maximum theoretical of BWD per minuite was 136.575 but i have been trying to reach that in satisfactory planner and have tried all sorts of combinations with sloops in diffrent places and diffrent recipies and there was never enough sam ore.

[brisk smelt]

just build your stations like this

[brisk smelt]

@unique cypress

[dusty shoal]

???

[short jungle]

im gonna convert it all to alclad and casnings, but i haven't planned what to do with them yet, but i know aluminium is annoying to set up, so i wanna do all the pain now for all the gain later

[crimson moat]

That's the guy who you're asking about

[dusty shoal]

Ok

[crimson moat]

it's most likely coming out of satisfactory optimizer, and doing some stuff that you won't be able to calculate by hand

[dusty shoal]

I use tools though

[crimson moat]

tools does not support some of the required stuff

like sloops

[dusty shoal]

ah ok thx

[crimson moat]

and where you put sloops is a really difficult question sometimes

[dusty shoal]

yh i realise that

I got the production change but placing the sloops is supre hard

[fervent coral]

i did that lol

[unique cypress]

I can redo the calculations, if you want and show how optimizer assigned sloops, what is used to generate power, etc. Which number are you interested in?

[dusty shoal]

basically as high as possible

[dusty shoal]

basically as high as possible

[dusty shoal]

also what software r u using?

[unique cypress]

Like aeryn said, SF Optimizer

[dusty shoal]

ok Thx

[unique cypress]

In a regular world or creative?

Because generating enough power to supply the factory obviously takes away from the BWD production

So the question is whether you want to do it "legitimately" or with No Power on

And how many sloops do you consider to be "available" for this? 103, 104, 105 or 106?

[dusty shoal]

106 sloops and im not worried about power

but why do you aks about th number of sloops?

[unique cypress]

Because they're needed for research. You either cheat to complete it, and you have 106 left.

The bare minimum to do this "legit" is spending one on unlocking slooping - 105 left.

And there are 2 researches that aren't required for this project, but you might've spent sloops on them already and therefore not have them available. So that's 1 or 2 more spent

[dusty shoal]

Ah then 105 and im doing the calculations before the project so I havent started yet

[bright juniper]

though of course this gives no room for pumps or trains or anything other than machines to take power

[dusty shoal]

?

iffinite power

also I going to be using nuclear

[bright juniper]

ye but nuclear requires resources

[dusty shoal]

yes you start with a coal then build your nuclear then erase the coal

[crimson moat]

No, it costs ore to run nuclear

[dusty shoal]

yes but the only esource being 100 percented is sam

[crimson moat]

maybe there is enough leftover to not hurt production, i dunno

[dusty shoal]

i still have 100 percent of all the uranium vaines

[crimson moat]

uranium is the easy part

[dusty shoal]

so far after looking at it it looks fine

[unique cypress]

There was a difference of 10 BWD/min between having "no power" enabled and actually generating power to power everything

[bright juniper]

I’ll play around in sf optimizer once I get home

[dusty shoal]

okat thx

I cant make it count sloops though?

[bright juniper]

unless KYO297 can before me

[bright juniper]

you can

[dusty shoal]

How?

[unique cypress]

I don't remember how many sloops I assumed were available when I made that comment, so the numbers are probably gonna be different when I redo it for 105, but I suspect the same ~10/min difference is gonna stay

[bright juniper]

just input the number of sloops

[dusty shoal]

where?

[bright juniper]

just put it in the json

[dusty shoal]

what the i thought where talking about the online version

[unique cypress]

There is no online version of Optimizer

And that's the only calculator I know of that can optimize sloops and power

[dusty shoal]

oh I was using the SF tools

[bright juniper]

you can’t do things like this in tools

[dusty shoal]

yh i found the right thing on git

[proud shoal]

We changed it up a little bit this is what it looks like now but now the train spits out a signaling issue:

[dusty shoal]

also how do I use SF Optimizer

[unique cypress]

The readme and some trial and error should suffice

It mostly was enough for me to figure it out

[bright juniper]

though ofc it does require knowledge of cmd

[unique cypress]

Or pycharm

Or another python ide

[mint girder]

its not working 😭 it needs dark matter crystals but it cant make that until it actually makes the dark matter residue

[bright juniper]

then give it some dark matter crystals to kickstart it

[mint girder]

lfg 😎 power shards are automated

[bright juniper]

@unique cypress How do I make sf optimizer be allowed to store nuclear waste?

[young stone]

Would it be more effictive to research & use coal plants for power, or does my current setup work? (11 biomass burners using solid biofuel)

[brisk smelt]

yeah definitely make coal...

[unique cypress]

Set the waste as an unlimited output

[dusty shoal]

in sf optimizer got a error messgage (ussing windsurf btw)

[deft lichen]

what's the error? it's telling you what's wrong

you ran it without arguments

[dusty shoal]

so where do i put the arguments i dont understand what to do

[deft lichen]

are you sure you want to use a command line tool then

there are online tools that just have a graphical interface

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[dusty shoal]

no i need SF Optimizer to calculate a 130 BWD per minuite factory

[deft lichen]

did someone tell you to use the tool?

the tool I linked can also plan factories

[dusty shoal]

yh but does it take into acount sloops

[deft lichen]

that's the only thing it doesn't do

[dusty shoal]

yes i need sloops to be calculated otherwise the 130 isnt posible

[deft lichen]

well, if you're insistent on using the tool

you pass arguments after the command

a more basic comand would for example be ls and with arguments you'd write ls -a

[dusty shoal]

oh its also not a command based tool it has configs

[deft lichen]

the command it runs is essentially python.exe path/to/the/python/program.py

I don't know what it wants as content of those arguments, but it has at least one required argument, which is the name of a file to write errors to, I assume

so just press arrow up in the terminal and write " error.txt" after the command and it could work

[bright juniper]

says you don't have numpy downloaded

[deft lichen]

that was the previous run

[dusty shoal]

yep previouse run

something with a text file i need to solve

[deft lichen]

did you get it working with the error file?

[dusty shoal]

no

[bright juniper]

with 103 sloops, the most bwd you can make is 131.389. With 105 sloops, the most you can make is 132.579

I can send either solution

[dusty shoal]

yes but what do i do to fix the argument erroe

[bright juniper]

You need to pass in the problem file as an argument. I use cmd where it's python3 satisfactory-optimizer.py bwd.json

Not sure about what you have

[dusty shoal]

could you explain in simple terms

[dusty shoal]

i downloaded it from github

[bright juniper]

no I mean I'm not sure how to run something with an argument in your ide

[deft lichen]

don't put the " there

[dusty shoal]

is there something i can do to do it wothout a command

[deft lichen]

I meant just a space followed by the file name

if you can't get it to work, open a #1038092680493801533 thread and ask for someone who uses the tool to guide you

[dusty shoal]

do u use SF Optomizer

[bright juniper]

yes but in cmd

looks like you are doing something similar, but just remove the "

and you should be fine

[dusty shoal]

okay

[bright juniper]

replace the error.txt with whatever file you are solving

like for me I'm solving bwd.json

[dusty shoal]

okay

[bright juniper]

Here's the problem file I've been using, if you want

[dusty shoal]

what should i put

nvm ill use you file

[bright juniper]

if you do something like this for something else, on your own, I'd suggest using the employee_of_the_universe file, as it contains all of the inputs on the map already

[dusty shoal]

for the recipies how do i do fully overclocked miners mk3

[bright juniper]

my file should already do that

(unless the calculator deems it better to not overclock)

[dusty shoal]

okay

[unique cypress]

You need to add the path to the problems file to launch arguments

No clue where that is in the IDE you're using though

[bright juniper]

do what you did here but replace error.txt with bwd.json

[dusty shoal]

but where do i put the file

of my problem

[unique cypress]

In the same directory as satisfactory-optimizer.py

Well, you don't need to put it there, but it's easiest if you do

[dusty shoal]

like this

[unique cypress]

Yes

[dusty shoal]

and then what

[unique cypress]

Now you need to have bwd.json in the launch arguments for satisfactory-optimizer.py

[dusty shoal]

okay

[unique cypress]

I know how to do that in command line and in pycharm but not the program you're using

But you can probably google how to do that

Worked for me when I didn't know how to do that with pycharm

Or maybe you can just use the console the same as the command line

[unique cypress]

Maybe in the "run" menu at the top?

[dusty shoal]

here

[unique cypress]

It can be put in as a launch argument. No need to edit Optimizer's files. And, because it's supposed to be input as a launch argument, I'm not even sure if a simple edit would be able to hardcode it in

[dusty shoal]

so how do i change the launcg argument?

[unique cypress]

I'm guessing it's gonna be either under the "run" menu in the top left or the dropdown menu next to the play button in top right

In pycharm it's called "configuration" I think

[dusty shoal]

the software im using is windsurf but what is the command

[unique cypress]

In pycharm, it's not a command, it's a menu

[dusty shoal]

okay so ill will search up how to do launch arguments in windsurf

[unique cypress]

It's a command in the command line, but that's because it's command line

[dusty shoal]

???

[unique cypress]

When you check satisfactory settings on steam or epic, there's also a menu for typing in launch arguments, like forcing dx11 or whatever

Same thing here. You have a menu for typing in launch arguments for satisfactory optimizer

[dusty shoal]

so the launch argument should be for the satisfactory Optimizer.py

[unique cypress]

Yeah, in pycharm, you run it once, get the error that the problem file hasn't been specified, and now you can edit its configuration to include the problem file's name as launch argument and it works

So you might need to run it once, but not from the console

Like use the run button in the top right

Or at least that's what I think it is

[dusty shoal]

I got it to work witht he inbuilt ai in windsurf (i can recomend) but i think the output is to large for my terminal

[unique cypress]

You can replace the print statement with a write-to-file statement. That's what I did

[dusty shoal]

Inputs
To produce 132.579 Ballistic Warp Drives / min, you are feeding:

Thermal Propulsion Rocket: 85.079 / min

Singularity Cell: 425.393 / min

Superposition Oscillator: 170.157 / min

Dark Matter Crystal: 3403.142 / min

Outputs

Ballistic Warp Drive: 132.579 / min

Power Consumption

Total: 418,157.377 MW

This is extremely high, even for late-game dark matter production.

If you want, I can also provide:
✅ A dependency chain breakdown (all upstream resources required)
✅ A power efficiency analysis
✅ How many Somersloops are consumed per minute
✅ A machine count sanity check
✅ A visualization of the entire BWD production chain
Just tell me what you'd like next!

got the data from chatgpt

i asked it to scan the file

the json file

that wa outputed by SF optomizer

[unique cypress]

Optimizer doesn't output files

By default, it prints to console

[dusty shoal]

i mean the output into the terminal

[unique cypress]

You could've just read that instead of putting it through chatgpt

[wind spade]

input the extra materials manually then

[bright juniper]

That's just literally reading this:

"Ballistic Warp Drive": {
    "configurations": [
        {
            "machine_count": "1",
            "clock_speed_setting": "0.078539"
        },
        {
            "machine_count": "26",
            "clock_speed_setting": "2.500000",
            "somersloops_slotted_per_machine": 2
        },
        {
            "machine_count": "8",
            "clock_speed_setting": "2.500000",
            "somersloops_slotted_per_machine": 3
        }
    ],
    "inputs": {
        "Thermal Propulsion Rocket": "85.079",
        "Singularity Cell": "425.393",
        "Superposition Oscillator": "170.157",
        "Dark Matter Crystal": "3403.142"
    },
    "outputs": {
        "Ballistic Warp Drive": "132.579"
    },
    "power_consumption": "418157.377"

[wind spade]

enjoy your wrong data

[bright juniper]

no it's correct. Just missing a lot

[dusty shoal]

oh no i asked it to excluded evrything and just give me the ballistic drive part

guys i got it thx for your help

[bright juniper]

Just search for ballistic warp drive on the file

[dusty shoal]

yh ok

now all i have to do is find a way of powering this monstrosety

[unique cypress]

optimizer solves for that too if you set it to do that

[bright juniper]

it should have power included

[dusty shoal]

oh yes i forgot

now the 3rd step is building it

ill see you in a 1000 hours

[bright juniper]

do note that this is optimized enough so you can't use any pumps/trains

so you might want to set the max_power_consumption in the problem file to a negative value so it'll produce extra

[dusty shoal]

or i can just build extra

[bright juniper]

there's no extra resources though

[unique cypress]

there's likely 0 resources left for anything more

some iron and limestone, maybe

[bright juniper]

checked and no extra coal

no extra oil either

[dusty shoal]

uranium?

[bright juniper]

uranium requires other things

[dusty shoal]

like?

[unique cypress]

sulfur?

[dusty shoal]

and non left im guessing?

[bright juniper]

not seeing any left

[bright juniper]

oil, iron, copper, limestone are all necessasry iirc

[dusty shoal]

oh

any ideas on what to do?

[bright juniper]

this

[stray tapir]

https://satisfactoryplanner.net takes somersloops in consideration

[bright juniper]

but sf optimizer is waaay stronger

[stray tapir]

What does that mean?

[unique cypress]

finds the optimal step to put sloops into for max input/min input

[bright juniper]

well

it takes power and genning power into consideration

it's exceedingly customizable

finds optimal slots for sloops

etc.

[stray tapir]

Same there...

[unique cypress]

automatically or manually?

because this looks very manual

[stray tapir]

somersloop placement is simple - as late in the chain as possible. Generating the entire chain is the deal

[bright juniper]

Nope not as powerful

[wind spade]

is not that simple

[unique cypress]

except max ficsonium rods, for example, puts sloops in RSAM, Ficsite ingots and Ficsonium Rods

[shadow sinew]

I´ve placed down 2 5 freight module train station and have just realised that´s not enough through capacity for producing 100 heavy frames even with mk6 belts and some pure nodes that don´t need transport, I´m officially scared xd

[unique cypress]

it is enough though?

even with iron and limestone only HMFs

[shadow sinew]

with pure ingots yes, although Im also scared at the size of the refining array xd

[unique cypress]

why would you make 100 HMF without pure ingots

[shadow sinew]

it´s at the southern island biome, so I do have so pure nodes on site so it reduces logistics a bit, and nitrogen is pretty close too

[unique cypress]

nitrogen??? for HMFs???

[shadow sinew]

it´s for fused frames

[dusty shoal]

yep thqts the one i used before

[shadow sinew]

idk why you´d need 100 HMF per min for anything else xd

[unique cypress]

for shits and giggles?
because that's why I did 100 HMFs for once. but I never needed 100 for FMFs

even for my insane power plant projet, I only need 60

[shadow sinew]

I want to make about 90 thermal rockets per minute pre sloops, and Im building in a 10 buffer for nuclear enerrgy, and nuclear pasta or whatever

[potent pawn]

i need to transport 1800 quickwire/min do i need 2 stations just for quickwire.,mk.5 belt

train stations

[shadow sinew]

transport ingots

[potent pawn]

oh yeah

easier

[unique cypress]

I mean 2 platforms/wagons is enough for straight QW

for ingots, depends on recipe

but it's not like 2 platforms is a lot

even if you could fit the ingots in 1 (you probably can), that's not that much of a difference

[worn delta]

Are conveyor belts 1 price of whatever material per segment ?

[unique cypress]

it's 1 every 2 meters iirc?

[worn delta]

Oof

1k m of mk3..$$

[unique cypress]

all building materials are free, really

[worn delta]

Well amount needed

[unique cypress]

a few stacks

[gloomy solstice]

why does my smart splitter only lets through 600, while its getting a input of 1200... everything is mk6

[unique cypress]

probably sending half up?

[gloomy solstice]

jeah bu why

[unique cypress]

probably set incorrectly

[gloomy solstice]

?didnt know you you have that setting, where can i find a setting to put half input through...

[unique cypress]

if you set both to overflow for example, it'll split in half

[gloomy solstice]

its at none, any and screws

[unique cypress]

that also splits in half

or at least for screws

everything except screws would go entirely to "any"

[gloomy solstice]

ok thats new to me.... so i cant do all screws through at once... so if i understand it correctly i can never put evey screw through

[gloomy solstice]

half of my screws are going to any.... but i have a input of 1200, i want all my screws to go through, if i understand you correctly i can only put though half my screws

[unique cypress]

then use a different setting?

any undefined, overflow or none

[gloomy solstice]

any undefined works indeed, well this is new information for my haha thanks!

[sand epoch]

Better q... if you are feeding 1200 screws and don't want them being diverted... why have splitters at all??

[shadow sinew]

im guessing it´s overflow protection

but it´s weird to have more than one of those

like, maybe for a nuclear power plant you are hyper paranoid and do many smart splitters, but weird for screws

[fierce ruin]

1200 input / 2 make two times 600... better downgrade or create an loadbalancer

[gloomy solstice]

its in my main storage, i have a belt running through every item with smart splitters to sort everything

[sand epoch]

Also, overflow is a better choice than undefined. Will keep flow going if a splitter ever backs up

[pastel obsidian]

There are cases where you want the undefined to go to the next sorter and the overflow into the sink

[earnest rapids]

My entire factory is running perfectly except for a single wire constructor running 99% and making a pure copper refinery run at 99%. The end of the manifold it goes to overflows to central storage with plenty of extra space on the overflow belt. The main manifold is 4 wire constructors at 200% 60/m and 1 at 100% 30/m with a mk3 belt. Does the game just bug or clog sometimes with max capacity belts like pipes? The difference is too small to be a wrong belt type or something, so I have no idea why else it would be doing this. Of course it doesn't matter, but I want it to be 100% anyway.

[vapid gorge]

is this based off the efficiency meters?

if so, ignore them. They are lying liars that should never be paid attention to. Stare at the lights for 30 seconds, see if there's a stutter

[sand epoch]

Overflow does both

[vapid gorge]

yeah I can't think of a situation where I'd need 'undefined' hoping that the flow to one side just never clogs?

I'm sure some weird niche situation exists?

[pastel obsidian]

You have screws go right overflow go left and undefined go straight into the next sorter

[sand epoch]

Maybe some sushi belt if there is even a chance of something unwanted ending up on it an cloging a machine

[sand epoch]

Yea.. that undefined is not needed

[pastel obsidian]

You don't want screws going into the next sorter

[vapid gorge]

but wouldn't undefined be just replaced with over flow then? with teh same results plus safety of no clogs from defined objects?

[pastel obsidian]

It's more for sushi belts/sorting

[sand epoch]

Why does it matter if they do? The next one isn't looking for them so they keep going all the way to the end and into the sink

[earnest rapids]

It does go idle very briefly sometimes

[vapid gorge]

are you wearing a hover pack? that can stutter a system if you ahve power switches anywhere around

[steel knot]

why is it when i connect certain limited output/inputs on Satisfactory modeler the whole factory jams on recalculating? it shouldn't be projecting new capacity or anything...

[vapid gorge]

I imagine because it's poorly programed

[pastel obsidian]

Add a container between the two

It might be a rounding error in the code somewhere or it's stuck in a recalculating loop

[past igloo]

I'm currently mapping out my playthrough where I'm aiming to make 60/min of each of the phase 5 Space elevator parts. What are some recommendations for best use of Somersloops when trying to max assembly components in phase 5 like I am? This is what I have allocated so far:

8 Sloops for my Singularity cell’s manufacturers (2). Allowing me to make 150 singularity cells from 10 pasta, leaving plenty for Ficsonium.
48 Sloops for my Ballistic warp drive manufacturers (12), turning 30 BWD into 60 total.
8 Sloops for the Neural Quantum processor’s quantum encoders (2). This would turn 15 into the 30 I need for the AI expansion servers and doubling the 375 Dark matter residue into 750 as a bonus.
12 Sloops for the AI expansion server’s quantum encoders (3), turning 30 into 60 and 750 dark matter residue into 1500.
I plan to only build ONE Alien power augmenter and rely on making as many alien power matrixes as possible. (I still haven’t figured out how many I can automate alongside my current goals).
This plan will use 86 of the total 106 Somersloops and leave me with 20 remaining.

What should I do? Should I make an additional two Alien power augmenters and try to pull off 15 alien power matrixes/min to post my grid by 90%? Should I sloop as much SAM as possible to potentially give myself more leeway on scarce resources like nitrogen?

(I apologize if this is the wrong feed)

[vapid gorge]

so is your question at the end of all of that 'what to do with 20 spare sloops' ?

[past igloo]

yea sorry

[vapid gorge]

... do whatever? it's just a duping mechanic. Pick a thing you want doubled

have a goal to make 10 ppm of something - then ... I guess make 20?

[past igloo]

Yea I get that haha. I just figured since this is the math and meta channel theres an objectively "correct" opinion floating around here on where they're best used in crafting chain when maximizing.

[vapid gorge]

also, just as a thing, if this is using anywhere near all the resources on the map pls don't expect to be able to finish it. Your computer will probably catch on fire

[vapid gorge]

it's a sand box. Do whatever you like - duping items isn't really ... a big deal? you just basically boop a button and w/o making more production line you have more parts per min in the end.

the only difference mechanically is more points per min into the sink I suppose if that matters to you?

[unique vault]

is this enough to get me through the game or should i double* it and go 20, 10, 5, 2?

[minor silo]

Quadrouple xD

[unique vault]

(previous cubes would be used for the ones after so take-home cube ammount would be 10, 5, 3, 2 if doubled) (currently 5, 3, 1, 1 take-home)

[unique vault]

fr? damn i didnt think i needed that many

you only really use them for space elevator right?

[vapid gorge]

depends what you mean 'get me through the game'

if you let a bunch of items store up in containers while you build and explore? it'd be fine

you can unlock everything and then build more sandbox like factories

[minor silo]

Erm, running it.. one sec

What was the question xD

[frosty owl]

That's explained in the description of the simulation mode you're using.
If you're using "manual", you need to make sure that things make sense or the plan will find ways to make numbers work out (this normally ends up with some nodes highljted for possible errors)
In short, there are conflicting details in your production plan

[frosty owl]

They're joking. The point (that I assume they were trying to make) is that everyone has different preferences so it makes little sense to ask how much you should be producing to keep up with your preferences, if you don't also explain such preferences so people can actually help guiding you in getting there^^
Eg: some might like to build/progress through the game about 4x as fast as you, so they would quadruple the production you shared...

[unique vault]

ohhhh sorry
idk im doing a slower playthrough (250ish hrs not started on phase 3 parts) but i just wanted to make sure i wouldnt have to do like 0.0001 items per second with something later on down the line

im fine with letting stuff stockpile though just not when it comes to production

but im fine with stockpilign for buildings

[frosty owl]

For personal use, 2.5/min of each might be enough too then ^^
Ie: you could reduce modular and heavy frames to the output of the Fused Frames

[glass girder]

should i be overclocking my fuel generators? in the process of building my second fuel power plant for this save but im using turbo fuel, is it better to overclock the generators or just build more?

[frosty owl]

Are you planning to be using these as inputs for other productions too though, @unique vault?

[frosty owl]

Depends on how annoying you find building more VS sharding them and how aviable are shard to you (ie: how many you have in stock and how freely you like using them)

[glass girder]

im fine with going and getting more, ive made sure to put them all thru a slooped constructor double them and ive fully overclocked almost all 60ish refineries for this factory

[glass girder]

the turbo fuel?

[frosty owl]

As you can see from the @, there was an ongoing conversation xD

[glass girder]

oh my bad lol

[frosty owl]

No wait, I actually pinged you instead of the right person 🤦‍♂️

[frosty owl]

So, my bad lol

[vapid gorge]

if you want - all it does is save space though

[eager lily]

Can someone tell me the how many smelters I should have for one pure iron node

[frosty owl]

Do you know how much ore does your miner produce and how much does one Smelter take?

[wind spade]

check recipes, check miner. They give you the numbers

[pastel obsidian]

Mk1 4
Mk2 8
MK3 16

You can also overclock

[wind spade]

don't spoonfeed answers 🙂

[steel knot]

Yeah I saw manual mode. I usually work in full. So I’m thinking I switch to manual, address the highlighted nodes since they’re off somehow, and try again. It also does it for an output-constrained pair of sulfur inputs. If I split one sulfur node it “crashes” but supplying 2 is fine (and doesn’t lead to wonky numbers)

[earnest rapids]

No hover pack. I emptied the output buffer to about half and left it afk for a while and the number was higher when I got back.

[frosty owl]

It's hard to spot the issue "remotely" as I got too used to "manual" mode, but you might want to try using splitters/mergers instead of just linking machines directly, or even try using Containers... I recall that was the "fix" in similar scenarios for me

[steel knot]

i'll try that out. switched to manual and i see what might be causing the issue but not exactly sure why it won't accept my limiting of blueprints:

negative blueprints lol

[floral mica]

How'd the modeler even come up with negatives?

[steel knot]

No idea. And I can only set upper bounds. I posted in the satisfactory modeler discord to see if it’s a bug I can work around

[unique cypress]

no, but it's a your design issue you can work around 🙃

[steel knot]

I’m all ears

[unique cypress]

with properly managed byproducts and loops, manual mode doesn't produce negatives

[steel knot]

Sinking isn’t properly managed?

[unique cypress]

no clue what's offscreen and in the BPs

[steel knot]

And while I agree it should work if designed correctly, I’d consider it a bug to allow for a physically impossible negative number of buildings or blueprints

80000000 nuclear reactors? Fine. -1? Not fine

here's the contents of the BP. i dont think there's anything wrong here: capped the output as necessary, output the byproducts because i may use them in other aspects

[coarse dragon]

I'm having some issues with congestion of Ore

120/m Iron ore
120/m Coal

Being split into 3 foundries using 45/m each.

I'm not sure if my maths is wrong and I'm missing something but I was under the impression I'd be under generating both iron and coal by 15/m

However my machines are congested despite the under generation of resource.

[steel knot]

120 coal + 120 iron = 120 steel in the base recipe. Maybe underclock your 3 foundries into 40 each

[unique cypress]

Are you using 120 steel/min?

[coarse dragon]

I'm using technically 135/m but my ore is congested despite using more than I'm generating

[coarse dragon]

My ore belts are already congested with 135/m reducing them to 40/m each would cause more congestion

[unique cypress]

are the miners full too or slowly emptying?

[coarse dragon]

Miners are also full, belt congested, and Max stacks on foundries

[steel knot]

maybe empty them manually and see which fills up first

[coarse dragon]

Which is why I'm confused because I assumed I'd be operating at a deficit not surplus

[steel knot]

you don't have a mk1 belt or lift somewhere in there right?

[coarse dragon]

I've upgraded everything to MK3 Belt/lift wise

As I thought that was the original issue

[steel knot]

manifold? load balanced?

[coarse dragon]

Manifold I believe, I got it all going into 1 spitter into the next

[steel knot]

At any point did you change things up and leave in a bunch of ore? If so, it would mean that foundry is producing at 45 per min when its source should have it producing less (eventually) maybe flush the system and see what happens

[frosty owl]

@limpid vapor (from #1441597560069558414 message to a better channel)
While powerful, SFTools has limits that makes it impossible to reproduce some Modeler plans on it. This becomes obvious as soon as one tries to make a plan where they want to use multiple recipes for the same item and desire to fine-tune how many resources go to which production line.
And that's not mentioning the convenience of having all production lines in the same space (not different "tabs") and not having to manually keep track of their individual inputs (the "tabs" in SFTools can't communicate).
Ofc, it's not unlikely that someone making such a plan is going to actually plug the (automatically calculated) numbers into SFTools to actually run the maximization and then follow up on Modeler

[dusky dust]

In the end it's a case of the two being fundamentally different tools. They solve different problems

Some folks seem to like pitting them against each other, but IMO they're not easily directly comparable

[frosty owl]

Eh, they have some everlap, that's what sparks debate over "this better!"

[dusky dust]

Some overlap, sure, but the fundamental usecase they're addressing is miles apart

sftools can't do what modeller does, and modeller can't do what sftools does

[limpid vapor]

my whole point was that those that don't need those features, can still do that

i use tabs, its good enough for me

for me, the way i build is good enough documentation not to need to duplicate the information outside the game, but i can see how for some it can be useful to do that

[vapid gorge]

Either the ingots arent getting used fast enough or you had a giant store of them at the start it’s still being chewed through

Or using a mk1 belt somewhere I guess

[spare tapir]

starter base irong shenanigans

[last kettle]

If I have two fully overclocked and sloops rocket fuel blenders, how many fuel gens coll I power with that?

[spare tapir]

240 generators for

60k mw

[last kettle]

GAH DAMN

sounds like a fucking nightmare to pipe up right.
😭

[spare tapir]

eh

only 1000 Rocket fuel

just 2 pipes

-# and 240 generators

[last kettle]

I slooped the pipes and 2 turned into 4…

[spare tapir]

wha

[unique cypress]

great job absolutely butchering SI units

[spare tapir]

What did I do 😭

[unique cypress]

2 different mistakes XD

it should be 60 GW

60 000 MW also acceptable ig

[spare tapir]

ah

[vapid gorge]

got a small math error then somewhere probably

[rancid marsh]

Using only the standard caterium ingot recipe is their a way to evenly distribute 780 ore per min

[vapid gorge]

use a manifold?

[rancid marsh]

I mean getting 100% efficiency on the machines.

[vapid gorge]

use a manifold

[rancid marsh]

780 does not evenly divide by 45

[pastel obsidian]

You can clock the machines to a lower number or sink the extra ore if it means that much to you

[vapid gorge]

clock a machine to take up the left over amount

[rancid marsh]

I am asking how to do this specifically because the numbers do not work out evenly. And I am not good enough at math to know how to easily solve this problem on a calculator and I don't want to sit here for an hour just testing every possible combination. If I have to, I will, but I would prefer to not.

[vapid gorge]

so 780/45 is 17.3333333

that means you need 1/3 of a machine left over
have 17 machines clocked at 100% and 1 machine clocked at 33.3334%

with a manifold

[rancid marsh]

Can't do that on console we can only do 0.1% increments as our minimum.

It is very infuriating

[vapid gorge]

rip

[sturdy sage]

I understand that resources are “ infinite” but if they weren’t would pumping water through a package and into a sink just eradicate all the water on the planet somehow?

[vapid gorge]

deal with a machine being off a little bit while it waits then

[rancid marsh]

If none of the resources on the map are infinite, then yes, that would do that. Unless the devs made an exception for the ocean.

[wind spade]

you can't really run out of anything, with exception of sloops and spheres, those are fininite

[unique cypress]

You can run out of resource rates

But factories can theoretically run infinitely

[rancid marsh]

Random fun fact. You cannot generate 2,400 iron ore a second from miners. You can only do like 1500 something a second.

[wind spade]

what

what is "do like 1500 something"

[vapid gorge]

They are talking about all the nodes on the map at the same time

and that's technically incorrect.
SAM exists

generate more ore pm

[rancid marsh]

1,500 something iron ore a second.

[wind spade]

you can do more than that

you can do 2045/s

[rancid marsh]

A second? No. you would need to be able to generate 144,000 iron ore a minute to do 2,400 a second and you can only do I think it's 92,100 iron ore a minute using miners

[wind spade]

you don't need to use miners to get iron ore 🙂

[rancid marsh]

I meant using miners.

[vapid gorge]

using miners https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=7vL6hwUYWAvFMVrhy1sc

and some processing

[rancid marsh]

So I was right then, because from miners you can only do 92,100 a minute.

[vapid gorge]

you can mine other things that turn into ore though, with miners 😛

[rancid marsh]

But that needs more than just miners.

[wind spade]

mining iron ore also needs more than just miners 🤷

[unique cypress]

I wonder how fast you could mine iron ore with portable miners

As in actually take it out of them and put into containers for production

[rancid marsh]

the first step would definitely be figuring out how many miners can you fit on a single iron node and then figuring out if that is enough to overstress your capability of extracting from them.

If it is, then time yourself running around that iron node and putting iron into things and then figure it out from there. If it isn't enough, then good luck because things get very complicated very quickly.

[unique cypress]

Based on very rough estimates, I think you could saturate a mk6 belt, possibly 2

[rancid marsh]

I don't know about saturating two mark six belts. You might be able to get close, but you're definitely not doing much more than that.

[dusky dust]

Don't forget to practice techniques in 4-player coop! Think of the throughput!

[rancid marsh]

I think there are better uses of time for 4 players but I could just be an idiot

[quasi whale]

anything i could fix here? waters been backing up more often then id like so i tried adding a valve
not sure if it would work though

[vapid gorge]

direct feeding waste water back into fresh isn't a very reliable way of doing things

have some refineries run off fresh water, some on waste only - blue is fresh, red is waste

[quasi whale]

mk its just that my main alluminum setup right now works by feeding waste water back and thats working reliably so far so i hoped that i could do it again

[vapid gorge]

that's what 'unreliable' means xD
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't

it's not impossible to do - but hard to get teh same results reliably

[quasi whale]

alright id hope there was a surefire way to do it

[vapid gorge]

there is. Keep it split 🙂

and that set up will work later with other by products, as well as gasses in tier 9 that you can't prioritise in any way

some ratios for various recipe combos. Could be handy

[steel knot]

these are constrained: can't produce more than 120 / 60 on the Wengen side and doesnt take more than 37.5 of each on the other outpost. why would it be that when I connect either output to its input that the calculator chokes?

[vapid gorge]

try their discord? I sent you a link

Now I'm going to leave their discord to not be associated with it.

[steel knot]

looks like the fix for now was to add a storage container between the two

[spare stratus]

Anyone got good Knowledge on Fuel production?

[pastel obsidian]

What are you currently thinking about doing

[spare stratus]

its about what ive already got but its just not working (trying to understand why it isnt)

built this all finished a couple hours ago

[pastel obsidian]

Post a picture of your build

[pastel obsidian]

Someone can do a better job but it's hard to get 600 fuel into a pipe,

[vapid gorge]

it's hard to tell how you're piping things

but get rid of the buffers first, then flood the system by underclocking a few generators

[spare stratus]

even with turning off the end generators to completely fill them then turning them back on the power still fluctuates

[vapid gorge]

did you get rid of the buffers before flooding the system?

[spare stratus]

i put the buffers there to stop sloshing between the generators, is this not a good idea?

[vapid gorge]

this is not the case.

easiest and least effort to try

1. remove buffers
2. under clock a few gens and flood the system

if that doesn't stabalise it we can get some more detailed overhead images of whats going on

[spare stratus]

Yeah ill just need to remove some architecture to get a good view

[vapid gorge]

just suggesting that first as you don't have to do much and it could work

[spare stratus]

only other thing im having an issue is, some blenders aren't at 100% efficiency, i have 6 blenders (each 1 produces 100 fuel per minute) to one pipeline which feeds 12 generators (250% clock on each generator so each one consumes 50 Fuel per min)

[vapid gorge]

yeah back flow generally comes from the input section of the next process

in this case , the generators

[spare stratus]

every now and then the system backs up and the blenders halt production due to the fuel not coming out of the blender, yet i have generators not filling

[vapid gorge]

back flow from input of generators

[spare stratus]

Apologies, i think im just really fkn dumb, what do you mean by back floww from imput of generators?

[vapid gorge]

poor pipe layouts can cause back flow from fluid further along the line
if fluid flows backwards agains the fluid moving forward to the destination, that can have a knock on effect that will eventually clog the producers

sometimes a system will self stabalise if it's flooded completely - but it depends on the layout you're working with

so I'm getting you to flood the system w/o the buffers (that can cause further issues) to run as abasic test

[spare stratus]

i do also have a valve after the last blender in each line, thought that would also stop backflow into the blenders.

[vapid gorge]

valves don't effectively stop back flow

[spare stratus]

well shite

[vapid gorge]

well all the fluid can back flow to the front of the valve right?
and if the front of the valve is full it acts as a wall so the fluid behidn the valve continues back wards

[spare stratus]

ahhhh

[vapid gorge]

you'd want infinite valves at every point along the pipe

they really don't have any reliable uses. And depending on the situation can do weird things

[spare stratus]

guess ill take em all out see if that helps

[vapid gorge]

I suppose technically they're used in water towers. But those are basically an exploit and pointless

[vapid gorge]

yes, also take them out 🙂 I didn't see them in the image

[spare stratus]

alr systems flooded, increasing the clock speed to see if it holds

heres a close up to the start of the fuel line on the last set

[vapid gorge]

if this doesn't work I'll get you to go over in photomode to show above the gens

[spare stratus]

will do

[vapid gorge]

and this section

[vapid gorge]

are those 3x 600 flow pipes?

[spare stratus]

yes

each line runs into 12 gens all at 250%

[vapid gorge]

ok so having really really short inputs like going into those generators can sometimes cause issues, but we'll change those as a last resort

[spare stratus]

Fluctiuations have started again fml

[vapid gorge]

yeah not surprised

ok so you'll want to change up the manifold to look like this

raise the pipes here to be tall enough to feed the top pipe of each loop

[spare stratus]

on the fuel generators or just on the Refinery's

[vapid gorge]

the generators

[spare stratus]

ah so it flows downwards into them

[vapid gorge]

the example image was just to be very clear on how it should look - appliccable for all inputs to machines

[vapid gorge]

well the input is still the same level - but the loop is important to help manage possible back flow

and it's probalby more reliable to feed it from the top

[vapid gorge]

oh and make sure you keep the pipes perfectly straight

along the feeds

[spare stratus]

alr pipes are done, letting the system flood again

[vapid gorge]

flood and go

[spare stratus]

alr systems flooded, turning last ones back on, gonna go have a quick shower and see how it is after

[spare stratus]

just come back to it and its fluctuating again fuckkkkk

[pastel obsidian]

Go to a blender that's got a yellow light and see why it's yellow

[spare stratus]

got multiple blenders around the 91% to 100% range

before it was every few minutes or so it would back up with fuel and stop producing

[pastel obsidian]

The issue is you are trying to push 600 fuel in a pipe

[spare stratus]

thought mk2 pipes meant you could do that, i guess fluid mechanics are just saying no?

[pastel obsidian]

They say they can but they rarely do

[vapid gorge]

so w/o seeing more of the system in detail (it's pretty compact) I think your easiest solution at this point is to make multiple 300 flow pipes instead

[vapid gorge]

this is probably the easiest way to do it

with the least reworking

[spare stratus]

ah so instead of having 6 blenders feeding into 12 gens each, have 3 blenders feed 6 gens each

alright ill try that

[vapid gorge]

yeah. 300 flow pipes are a lot more tolerant of mistakes or poorer piping

Might as well keep the loops - just have 2 on each row unconnected from each other

[vapid gorge]

actually one sec

[vapid gorge]

try straightning this bit, and put a powered pump on the X

[pastel obsidian]

Back to square one sadly

[vapid gorge]

having a powered pump before a manifold like that can sometimes help with directionality. It's not a fix all but could save you some work

[spare stratus]

the pipes coming in are level with the ones connected to the blenders

[spare stratus]

ahh all good, thought you meant straighten the whole line

[vapid gorge]

no stress , thoguht I'd clarify 🙂

[spare stratus]

Yet to see any fluctuations since putting the pumps on, will continue to monitor

[vapid gorge]

it's a sometimes fix, if things are just a liiiiittle bit wobbly from some aspect of the system

[spare stratus]

Sadest thing is this is just a Temporary system to redo my other Fuel generators on the western coast

[vapid gorge]

oh, why didn't you just build a bunch of power storage? could have charged it up and then restarted your rebuild with it

and why redo your other fuel system?

[spare stratus]

other system just has the basic Heavy oil residue into fuel system and i wanted to update it into the Diluted fuel system that uses the blenders

[vapid gorge]

I guess. Could just set up some nuclear power later and sit on these. Or make a new power system entirely if you don't have enoug hto get to nuclear

[pastel obsidian]

If you want a quick and dirty solution you can just make it one big o loop, it's what I do when I'm feeling lazy you just need three pipes on the right side to complete the loop

It would add the extra capacity that you need for the fuel to flow freely

[vapid gorge]

it's what they did, but not connected as simpler pipes are easier pipes and doing head on things like that is less reliable than running 2x 300 instead of a looped 600

[crimson moat]

Burning 16 hours to test and all good so far ✨

[spare stratus]

Pumps did not fix, will be redoing it later when i can be bothered to have 300 flow pipes

[vapid gorge]

no sweat - heres hoping that there isn't a more critical, unseen, issue or that rebuilding for 300 in mind will fix it along the way 🙂

[spare stratus]

Note to self in the future, dont fkn run for exactly 600 flow xD

[vapid gorge]

look you can, you just have to plan it appropriately.

I'd avoid such short input pipes for example, but there could be other niggly bits that are just hard to see since it's fairly compact

with a few basic rules you can reliably run 600 flow pipes

but if you run smaller grouping of machines with fluids you can slap 300 flow pipes around almost as much as you like

just cuts out some of the restrictions and you ahve to think and plan less

[spare stratus]

i ended up splitting the pipes for the blenders into 3 blenders per pipe rather than 6 and power has been smooth for 20 minutes without me even flooding the system

[pastel obsidian]

At least it's working 😔

[spare stratus]

Happiest ive been all day xD

[pastel obsidian]

Now you have power 😁

And a crash course in fluid dynamics

[spare stratus]

yeeee

only thing i question now is, im running 600 water though a pipe aswell and not having the same issues with the Fuel

but thats a problem for another day

[pastel obsidian]

I always use 2 pumps clocked to 300 each

Works every time for me to make 600

[spare stratus]

exactly what ive done

which works fine

But noooo 6 blenders making 600 fuel into one pipe doesnt workkkk

[pastel obsidian]

It's because there are 6 connectors

The fluids don't always know which direction they should be going so they go the wrong way

[spare stratus]

ahh

[pastel obsidian]

A pipe can handle 600 but if 20 is going the wrong way it has its capacity reduced to 580

That's the tldr

[midnight compass]

i just putted valves everywhere where i could, seems to work fine (altough i am feeding only 300 through mk 2 pipe)

[pastel obsidian]

We weren't able to fix it so ended up downgrading to 300,

The next boss is water recycling when you get to aluminum production

Look forward to that discussion when it happens

[spare stratus]

oh ive already done mine, (90% sure its fucked but im not caring since i have full boxes of aluminum products xD)

[midnight compass]

like now you have 2 mk2 pipes carrying 300 each?

also, why not turbo fuel?

300 of it is enough to feed 40 generators

you can even get some plastic or rubber out of it

also you can do this if you want

or you can do this instead

[midnight compass]

you dont even need to do any balancing work

[spare stratus]

I will eventually, when i get into Turbo fuel i want it sort of to be the Last or second last power plant i make

this is my eventual plan

[midnight compass]

dont forget that you also need 1,333.33 of water

[spare stratus]

Yeah i see that, just didnt bother connecting it

[unique cypress]

... why turbo blend fuel?

You could get 75% of the power by doing regular-ass fuel

[spare stratus]

Is turbo blend not a good option?

[unique cypress]

And way more by doing rocket

[gaunt oasis]

Which planner is that?

[spare stratus]

Satisfactory Modeler, its a Free Steam app

[spare stratus]

just remembered, i did it to reduce the amount of sulfer id need

[unique cypress]

Regular fuel costs 0 sulfur

And default rocket fuel is sulfur efficient too

[spare stratus]

Default rocket fuel still needs alot of sulfer to make the Turbo fuel if your using default Turbo fuel Recipe (only refunds a little)

[unique cypress]

With your 1700 sulfur you can make over 6000 rocket fuel

Which is more than triple the power

Though that would require tapping 2 nitrogen fields

[digital wing]

Youre always very super cautious re sulfur, im curious to know what else do you use for it/plan to save it for?

The only thing i need it for is my batteries and my nuclear facility

[spare stratus]

i know theres limited sulfer and im just trying to plan for the futre

[crimson moat]

sulfur is there for power, basically, and you won't run out before you're in the multiple terawatts range.

You can technically get more caterium by using sulfur instead of water with it, but it's only relevant in full world plans

It's typical to finish project assembly with 75%+ of the map sulfur sitting unused

[spare stratus]

no to mention its a bit difficult since i dont have mk6 belts

[unique cypress]

This time it's not me who's trying to be sulfur efficient, it's Aerilyn

[digital wing]

Yeah i know, i was just asking generally

[unique cypress]

I'm not really trying super hard to be sulfur efficient. Like Aeryn said, it's mostly for RF and Nuclear. And for that, even both at the same time, there's more than enough.

If you do all your ingot processing with leached, and aluminium with instant scrap, then maybe you'd have issues.

The last time I had sulfur issues was in U6, because there was 3000 sulfur less available, I did max nuclear, half my steel with compacted steel and most of my aluminium with instant scrap. Had to rebuild one steel factory from compacted to solid to free up one sulfur node to be able to do the max nuclear project

But now, with 3k sulfur more? It's much less of an issue, because that mostly covers the entirety of max nuclear. You now have 6k sulfur to use up on other stuff, as opposed to the 3k before 1.0. You could probably still run out, but you'd have to do max nuclear, a lot of RF, and use a bunch on other stuff. Not likely

[spare stratus]

Yeah i imagine when i get to tier 9 id have no issues with sulfur, its just that atm i only have mk5 belts and can only draw out a maximum of 780 sulfur from a Pure sulfur node (could be 1200 if i had mk6 belts)

[unique cypress]

Still, rocket fuel is way more sulfur and oil efficient than turbofuel

[spare stratus]

Are you talking about the Nitro Rocket fuel Alternative recipe?

[crimson moat]

the most sulfur efficient is the regular rocket fuel recipe

[spare stratus]

but that still requires turbo fuel..?

[crimson moat]

yeah, but it makes way more power per sulfur (and per oil) than turbofuel does, because of the additional processing

or in other words, it requires much less turbofuel per GW

Like, a quarter.

[unique cypress]

The most sulfur efficient chain requires a mix of default and blend turbofuel, so using all your oil on blend doesn't lend itself to a future upgrade

[gaunt oasis]

Is there a tool for figuring out building size?

Like how many foundations I need to have to set a certain number of machines on?

[pastel obsidian]

We aren't up to that yet

[pastel obsidian]

Creative works, there is also a website where you can measure footprints not sure what it is I'll post it if I find it

https://autumnfallstudios.itch.io/salt

[vapid gorge]

fresh water and crude oil also tend to be more resiliant to pipe shenanigans

[vapid gorge]

it's a LOT faster just using the game as a planner, setting up foundations eye balling things and practicing - and after you sort out the layout in game you get teh bonus of having hte machines laid out already instead of having to do it agian

[surreal spade]

im doing stage 2 of space elevator and just need automated wiring. should i also build motors and is there anything else i need to prep in advance?

[vapid gorge]

if you need motors ? build motors.

!wikisearch phases

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=phases

[surreal spade]

k thxs

[gaunt oasis]

Not if I'm waiting on resources

[gaunt oasis]

ty

[vapid gorge]

explore - or build more resource production. It's very easy to get thousands of parts stored up of everything while you go pick up hard drives slugs and things or just exploring.

If you aren't getting lots of parts in that way then your main issue is build more basic part production

[gaunt oasis]

Currently building my first coal power plant on this save so I can expand production and dont want it to look like spaghetti

Very early game

And this plant is likely going to be around a while because I normally end up using it to get rid of coke later on

[vapid gorge]

yeah that early a stage just do basic foundations and small groups of machines. No real planning needed unless you're doing weird stuff.

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

eary basic layouts for coal power - easy for beginners

[gaunt oasis]

I'm doing 10 gens from 3 pumps

I have decided to just let the foundation alignment be supoptimal and pait it asphalt later

[wind spade]

if you mean extractors (not pumps), then 3 extractors can't feed 10 gens (unless you clocked them)

[gaunt oasis]

Unless they changed the numbers it sure can

[wind spade]

they didn't change the numbers since 0.3 and they never could

one extractor makes 120, one gen needs 45. Three extractors make 360, ten gens need 450

[gaunt oasis]

I've used this design before, did they change the numbers in 1.1?

[wind spade]

no, they didn't change any numbers for coal gens since 0.3

[gaunt oasis]

cause I'm looking at it and you're right

[wind spade]

it was always like this

[gaunt oasis]

Thing is I've used this config on previous saves

[wind spade]

well, it most likely never fully worked then

or you overclocked gens or something

[gaunt oasis]

unless I did only do 8 but I'm pretty sure when I blueprinted it in the past it was 4 4 and 2 on the coal gens, maybe it was 3 3 and 2

no I guess it was in fact 8

[vapid gorge]

the other convenient thing about doing it in groups of 8 is it takes 1x mk2 belt of coal exactly, and you can expand with mk3 belts to do 2x groups of 8

[gaunt oasis]

Due to the landscape in this area its only ever going to be a single bank

[vapid gorge]

can always build up

[gaunt oasis]

I'm unhinged and build it on that vaguely phallic lake right next to the grassy fields spawn

[vapid gorge]

andthere's always at least 1 spot with 3-4 coal nodes next to water near every start zone you can do this in

[gaunt oasis]

I don't put one in the bigger lake until later

[vapid gorge]

it's very convenient for early power, just do 4x banks of 8 gens and your set for ages . but you do you

[gaunt oasis]

That one I put extra effort into looking nice and I need the big power lines for it

[vapid gorge]

I mean little ones are also fine

[quick cypress]

here's my problem. hope u don't mind my handwriting

[vapid gorge]

so over head images are much much better because you can see details - you can enter photomode by pressing P for that

also - don't use buffers or valves, they'll wreck the flow

[vapid gorge]

with some over head shots and what you're actually producing by number I can probably fix it in a couple min, but going to be shortly 🙂

[quick cypress]

alright just wait a minute plz

i failed to find where the screenshots are🥲

[vapid gorge]

use the snipping tool in windows?

[quick cypress]

yeah im trying

[wind spade]

it's listed in #faq

[quick cypress]

im produing cooling system which consumes 60/min nitrogen per blender

[vapid gorge]

yeah remove all the buffers and valves, first step

[quick cypress]

hope it helps

[vapid gorge]

then try to get it going again

[wind spade]

that looks like image of things to not do 😄

[quick cypress]

then how do i store gases

im trying anyway

[wind spade]

why would you store them?

[vapid gorge]

the answer is 'you don't'

fluid buffers can wreck havoc with liquids, they are VERY bad with gasses

[quick cypress]

I'm transporting them by train as the gas well is billion mile away from my factory

[wind spade]

that doesn't require you to store them

[quick cypress]

so i need to store them and keep my machine running when the train leaves

[vapid gorge]

package the gas 🙂

as mentioned, gasses behave really poorly with buffers and train platforms

[quick cypress]

nooooooo

[vapid gorge]

gas compresses 4x with packages, so you can have an even shorter train

[wind spade]

ah, that's called "buffering"

[vapid gorge]

in any case, heading to bed, you'll want to rework your gas train to be packaged

and don't use fluid buffers with it, use regular ISC's for the packaged stuff

good luck and good night!

[quick cypress]

thank u so much!

but it's just 11pm here

omg it runs perfectly now

just removed all the buffers

[deep fulcrum]

What is going on? I added turbofuel to it and all the resources needed to make it and it still wont work

[unique cypress]

enable recipes

[deep fulcrum]

I have

Still won't work

[unique cypress]

well, if it doesn't work, you haven't

usually the issue is that you don't havem turbofuel and/or compacted coal on

[deep fulcrum]

Does it even accept turbofuel? I don't see the recipe by itself, only the packaged version. Btw, I also had compacted coal on as well and it still won't work

[deep fulcrum]

oh, I didn't realise it was an alternate recipe as well

Thank you

[pastel obsidian]

Package it

[frosty owl]

Yeah, it doesn't like to leave "unaccounted" outputs. If you connect an output to a node, it'll try to use all that output; adding a connection to a container (or a container in between as you did) allows the planner to "overflow" the output there and not force it all into the input of the other node

[steel knot]

Yeah I’ve been playing around with limits on sinks to help add a buffer. It’s the only thing I see that can limit an input

[potent pawn]

ok so i need 100 quickwire/min to go into my assemblers for ai limiters, but fused quickwire only makes 90/min and i am at mk.5 belt so i cant transport 900 quickwire/min how would i distribute it

14.222 assemblers producing 90/min each (except the overclocked one) and then 12.8 assemblers that need 100/min each

[wind spade]

clock assembler to need 100 or make 90

[potent pawn]

ok

[wind spade]

then match 1:1

[potent pawn]

ok thanks

[wind spade]

simplest solution

otherwise manifold is always a way

[potent pawn]

ill just round up to 13 assemblers

[harsh shore]

what would i want the last assembler to be with modular frames if i need to have 11.25 assemmblers

[dusky dust]

Lots of ways to divide it up, but you could have 11 running at regular (100%) speed, and then the twelfth at 25%

Or you could have 10 at 100%, and then the eleventh at 125% (using a power shard to allow overclocking)

Or you could use 12 total and set each one to 93.75%

Basically whatever you like, so long as the total clock adds up to 1125

[wind spade]

or anything else that sums up to 1125%

[dusky dust]

Or just have twelve all at 100%, and know that occasionally one of them will go idle for a bit

You don't generally have to tailor the clock speeds exactly unless you actually want to

[unique cypress]

Though if you do that, you should make sure that the uptimes add up to 1125%, because if they don't, you'll end up with a slightly different factory than planned. Which might be fine, but it also might not be

[heady crescent]

I'm curious, how do yall decide on how much you're going to make on a specific item? I'm planning to build my first heavy modular frames factory and I also got the alternate recipe for it (heavy encased modular frame), but I'm struggling on how many do I build. Should I just max out my belt speed and overclock the required nodes for it if needed? Or is it ultimately just preference on how large do you want the factory to be?

[unique cypress]

I look at what the item is used for and try to estimate how many of each machine I might want to build

Do note that I practice independency - every factory produces items exclusively for me. So I don't have to worry about more advanced items that use the item in question as an ingredient

[wind spade]

look what buildables are built from it, do some estimation how often you'll build those, if you don't know, start with small number. You can always build more, but you won't get back the time you "wasted" on building your 1000/min factory that ends up unused (or sinked)

[heady crescent]

Those are great ways to put it. I guess I'll start small first since I don't need a lot of them as of now, and can always expand later. I remembered when I built 4 manufacturers for crystal oscillators but now I don't use them as often, now they're just going to the sink

[wind spade]

(also yeah, look at the independency and see if that's something you like, I personally very much recommend it. Practically it means that f.e. if you build modular frame factory and later need modular frames for HMFs, then you make new modular frames as part of the HMF factory instead of being dependent on other factories)

[eternal wharf]

Is there any way to add overflow after the storage? What I usually do is add a smart splitter before a storage container and set forward output to Any, and one of the side Outputs to Overflow so when the storage fills it automatically starts sending excess items to the side. But I kinda want a solution where I put the storage first, and once it is full, excess items kinda pass through it forwards.

The image shows my current storage of 3 different items and if I were to add a smart splitter before the storage I would have to do some vertical shenanigans, i was just hoping for a different cleaner option for overflow

[dusky dust]

Not really, no -- a Smart Splitter "behind" the storage is really the best bet there

Could route the Overflow output under the foundations and have it pop back up in front of the container, if you've got some room for belt routing underneath

[eternal wharf]

I normally leave a logistics floor beneath a machines floor but for some reason I didn't this time and it will clip through other machines on the lower floor

I regret that decision

Welp, I guess Conveyor Lifts connected to smart splitters are the way to go then

[unique cypress]

Definitely not in vanilla. A container outputs always as long as a belt is connected, and said belt has space on it. And anything you put after that has no clue about the container, and will deal with incoming items according to its own programming.

[eternal wharf]

Is there any mod that does this? Or allows me to somehow "program" the storage itself to act as a smart splitter to output any overflowing items forward?

[unique cypress]

Not that I'm aware of but you can check the modding server and/or search the modding site

[eternal wharf]

Will do, ty ty

[dusty shoal]

Im working On my BWD factory wondering how much extra power I should reserv for pumps and trains. I am tottaly aware that this affects my total BWD and am ok with it going down to 120 per minuite. here is the file im using to calculate. right now I am using a spare of 300,000 power units probably Megawatts.

[digital wing]

I need 600 uranium per min, gonna likely move it by drones. Is it as simple as having enough drones which have the ‘stacks per min’ number add up to 600 ore per min.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, basically. I tend to set up the route and just see if it'll work with one drone, and then expand as needed. :P (Though with 600/min I'd probably start with 2 or 3)

[digital wing]

Im right in thinking the fuel type will impact this stacks per min number cuz of how it changes the drone speed right?

[dusky dust]

I don't tend to bother mathing it out ahead of time. I just start out with the receiving end sinking stuff and then making sure that the input buffers get fully cleared out when drones leave with material

[digital wing]

I’m gonna figure it out when i do it yea, but i just want to make sure my understanding is correct

[dusky dust]

Yeah, fuel type affects drone speed. In the end it's just round-trip time which matters, but it's doable with any of the fuels. Just might need an extra drone port or two on "slower" fuels

[digital wing]

I use turbo fuel for everything now which suffices, but im tempted to make a battery factory

I need to look at the speed numbers

[dusky dust]

Batteries and Rocket Fuel are awfully similar, fwiw. Rocket Fuel wins out slightly by having a higher energy density

[digital wing]

Cuz its only 7m/s quicker but i guess that adds up quick in long distance travel

[digital wing]

I use turbo fuel

[dusky dust]

I suspect most folks would find Rocket Fuel the more attractive target than Batteries, though that could depend on your situation

Yeah, was just saying that RF+Batteries are in a practically identical "class" in terms of drones

Exact same speed, but RF lasts slightly longer

[digital wing]

Yea i guess its maybe worth making some packaged rocket fuel

[dusky dust]

Yeah, for most folks that's likely to be the more straightforward option

[digital wing]

Just annoying getting the aluminium there lol but nothing a drone wont fix

Oh its just aluminium ingots for the packaging thats so easy

I’ll just do that its way quicker

[dusky dust]

When I was first setting up my drones on my 1.0 save, I'd needed to spin up more aluminum anyway, whichever I went with (since I'd need to package the RF), and for me it felt more convenient to just do batteries, since there was already sulfur right next to where my new aluminum plant was gonna be

So my first drone deployments were all battery-based

Once I was running low on those, though, I switched over to RF for all the new ones

Yeah, if you've got the spare aluminum already, packaging RF is quite a bit more straightforward