math-and-meta

[shadow sinew]

why did they make 2 different ones xd, the other one must be so annoying, but yeah, it is the same ratio

[wind spade]

one is available earlier, other one is slightly less complex

[shadow sinew]

It'd feel better to me if they just left it as an endgame thing

[wind spade]

what specifically? 🤔

[unique cypress]

diluted packaged fuel existed before fluids did iirc. and back then, it was just called "diluted fuel"

[shadow sinew]

oh, so ig it´s a backwards compatibility thing

[wind spade]

no, it's a recipe that is available at oil tier

[unique cypress]

there's definitely some legacy stuff with it. DPF existed before DF

people probably complained about having to deal with refineries and packagers when it could be a blender recipe (after blenders were added)

[shadow sinew]

I mean that if they redid the game from scratch they prob would only leave the blender recipe, it does make progression sense for you to not get it immediately after unlocking oil

[wind spade]

I mean we had two or three big recipe rebalances before 1.0, if they wanted it different, they would change it already

[wind spade]

I doubt so, see above

also, it's very useful to have pre-blenders

and even post-blenders it's still very decent

[unique cypress]

there's a difference between breaking people's factories by removing it and not having it in the first place

if neither recipe existed before 1.0, I could see them only adding the blender version tbh

[wind spade]

I like the loop and would like to see only the loop and not the blender 🤷

[shadow sinew]

also, I´ve just realised it´s more important than usual to not cause bricks, because if you have someone´s power setup fail it will cause cascading failure of the entire grid, the only potentially worse recipe deletion would be to nuclear

[steel knot]

Thanks!

[wind spade]

priority power switch 😉

[shadow sinew]

I´m not saying it´s unrecoverable, but you´d need to rebuild your power station while the rest of the factory is shut down

[wind spade]

most of the "big updates" were published with "we recommend new game" anyway. They had the options if they wanted to deviate

[tawdry haven]

If I were to run a group of 6 coal generators could I still feed those 6 the water they need with 3 water extractors at 75% even if they use compacted coal or does it affect the water required?

[unique cypress]

Water consumption is the same regardless of fuel. It only changes with clock speed.

[tawdry haven]

Thank you.

[brisk smelt]

just clock the water normally its recommended to flood pipes to the max with water extractors, else you run into flowrate problems

[deep fulcrum]

How do I make my 300 iron/min mk1 miner deliver all that iron effienctly to my factory if I'm still at mk 2 belts?

[unique cypress]

that's the neat part. you don't. if the best belts you have are mk2, then you can't get more than 120 from a miner

[deep fulcrum]

that's a shame

[dusky dust]

You'll get to mk3 belts soon enough

There will be a tension between max extraction rate and max belt speed for much of the game. Gotta stick within those limits!

[potent pawn]

should i make plutonium rods or just sink the non fissile uranium

i mean try to make plutonium rods

wait wrong chat sorry

[unique cypress]

you can't sink non-fissile regardless

[mint coral]

ya we told him in another chat lol

[potent pawn]

i realized that after the fact

oops

[shadow sinew]

motors are a lot more involved than I remember xd, been building a 250 cooling system/min factory with the alt recipe and just kinda ignored the motors thinking it was easy, oh how wrong I was xd

[shadow sinew]

So now half the dune desert will be on motor production duty xd
Ik it´s not the most efficient recipes, but I don´t wanna do refineries if I don´t have to xd

might switch some to iron pipe if I run out of easily accesible coal, this should be good for 50 thermal rockets per minute plus some extra for other stuff

[shadow sinew]

if you manage to sink it somehow with a bug, by all means do so for efficiency sake xd

[dusky dust]

@frosty owl Okay, one (final) redirect, and I hope I have the willpower to keep my yap shut 'cause I think we're probably the only two people who want to be having this conversation. :D

So re: icons; sure, in many contexts they're a great shorthand, but I sincerely believe that if they are the only signposts in this case, they're far worse than without. You see a road sign and it's got an icon and that icon is generally the only thing you need to interpret. Oh, that's a yield sign, that's a stop sign, that's a pedestrian-crosswalk sign. One single bit of information, commonly known and taught in schools, and you're done

[frosty owl]

AFAIK, 2 is plenty enough people to have a convo :P

[dusky dust]

On a factory graph, though, if you want to know what any machine's doing, you've got to (correctly) interpret up to four different icons and up to two output icons, and then if you don't happen to know off the top of your head what that means, head to a wiki and try to match it up

The graphs require you to be constantly synthesizing a ton of information, when instead it coud just say "Infused Uranium Cell" or whatever.

There's even one case where two recipes share identical inputs/outputs and you'd have to start comparing resource ratios

And you've got icons like coal + compacted coal which look nearly identical (and on these screenshots are like 5x5 pixels or whatever)

And even though I've been playing the game since U3, I definitely do not know all of the Space Elevator Part icons by sight

[frosty owl]

This is where I disagree (kinda).
Let's be more specific: what info are you looking for exactly, for your example?
Like, in SFTools, you're looking at a node and wanting to know: (fill in)

[dusky dust]

Which, again, the graphs themselves might be fine, but if there were just bloody labels I'd know at a glance what's going on

Machine Type, Machine Count, Inputs (+rates), Outputs (+rates)

I'm not saying there shouldn't be icons too, and avid users of Modeller are maybe just better at recognizing things than I am, but it's a genuine barrier to understanding

I've been seeing these graphs for however long they've been on the server, and they have not gotten any easier for me to understand

Again, maybe this is some kind of learning disability or whatever, but I know I'm not alone in it

[frosty owl]

Nono, I get that, it's just another detail I'm trying to understand, sorry if I'm not keeping up with your typing speed 😅

[dusky dust]

Hah, yeah, sorry, I vomit forth overly-long sentences like I'm late to a meeting. :D

I often fear my presence is overwhelming with stuff like this. Too much time spent playing typing games as a kid. :P

[frosty owl]

So, in SFTools you get that from:

• Recipe name
• Machine number
  That's all you get from the SFTools graph, correct?

[dusky dust]

(I've been rather tempted by that newish Typing Battle Royale game which is making the rounds recently; generaly eschew that kind of thing but it piques my interest. :)

[wind spade]

input + output + rates is on hover, but yeah, not from screenshot

curious question: how do you distinguish between RIP and bolted RIP in modeller? 🤔

[dusky dust]

Rates are clearly labelled on the edges even for static images. I admit that having those at the midpoints of the edges could cause some problems on larger graphs, though. :)

[frosty owl]

You... Kinda don't...
Maybe figure then out by the info you get on hover.
Tbh, I have a hard time imagining a situation where that would happen, thus finding solutions for it 😅

[wind spade]

(fyi I'm also interested in this conversation from the point of view of "what could I possibly add to new Tools")

[unique cypress]

by the plates to screws ratio XD

[dusky dust]

Like, I dunno. Again, I'm not even saying sftools is the best; I honestly don't really have problems with the information-dispersal on any of the other rando solvers/graphers I've seen out there

[wind spade]

situation: I see a screenshot from modeller (we have like 10 daily), I see RIP production, person asks if plan is good or if I like the plan. I don't know because I have no idea which recipe that is (and yeah I could do math to figure it out but... why)

[dusky dust]

But just everything's right there. I agree that there could be icons, too. I wouldn't mind having icons as well

[frosty owl]

So, is this correct @dusky dust ?
Maybe I should add "input/output arrows"? That's an important distinction (takin 1 minute, phone dying)

[wind spade]

the current visualisation software doesn't support them (big sad), I plan to research visualisations that could add them for new Tools

[dusky dust]

Or a graph from my own bespoke solver:

(Power stuff in there is wrong; added that very early on but never bothered to actually do it right. :P)

[dusky dust]

Not actually sure what your question is there, btw

Okay satisfactory-calculator.com's graphs are actually worse than I remembered; I'd agree that those are pretty bad. :D

[frosty owl]

For a hypothetical "I wanna know what this node does" example, which scenario includes all the info you want to have at a glance in the smallest space?

[whole heron]

Looking at the 1.0 recipes and I noticed Dissolved Silica. Do people use that one?

[frosty owl]

Just to have a baseline example to make comparisons on

[wind spade]

some do

[whole heron]

Good to know. It's surprising that they made a new pink liquid.

[dusky dust]

It's useful if you need both silica and quartz crystal; you get a higher combined output. If you only want one or the other, there's more quartz-efficient ways to do it

[frosty owl]

I liked the colors and stuff... neve used it again though

[frosty owl]

Either ask them or judge by the number of machines. If they haven't changed the clock (red/blue circle in the top left of a node, 100% clock if not present), the output should make it obvious

[wind spade]

see, I don't know all these "changed clocks" info (and it's kinda not clear from the graph)

[dusky dust]

mm, satisfactory-logistics.xyz doesn't label resources either, I see:

[dusky dust]

For me, the third -- I do absolutely admit that once graphs get too "big," they can't be reasonably exported as a whole from sftools

@wind spade I suppose that would be one feature request -- being able to download a "full-size" zoomed in version of the graph, rather than having to screenshot

[wind spade]

you can rightclick the graph and press "save image as", though that doesn't allow you to do full-size, that just exports current viewport

[frosty owl]

Just download the graph (or it's link) at that point 😅
Big images become cumbersome to handle, even just due sheer filesize...

[dusky dust]

I could've sworn that there were more "full" graphers like this out there, but I guess most that I've been finding aren't

[dusky dust]

I can generate SVGs with my own bespoke one, which is nice, since I offload all the graphing to graphviz

[wind spade]

exporting as svg may be interesting feature indeed

[dusky dust]

Lets you search for text and such in the document, then, too!

[frosty owl]

Then I have to admit that I kinda fail to understand your prior criticism
To be more specific, I hear the part about having issues reading info in one way vs another (text vs icon) and I don't intend to argue with that; but I think we can just ignore it as a "user preference" and still compare the tools on other (more objective) parameters, such as: how easy it is to access the same amount of info?
As you mentioned, it's annoying having to follow lines far from one node just to know details about that node (even worse if they must be chased offscreen!), which is why I tried to create an example showing what is needed to have "all relevant info".
But this is where I don't understand your point as (in my view), Modeler wins hands down when it comes to having info aviable; in almost all cases, Modeler offers info in the same place as SFTools (halfway between nodes) OR better (user-defined position). The number of labels is the same (unless the user adds more) and the ONLY info exclusive to SFTools is the recipe name...
But that is useful only when one is looking just at the node (for the same info, one has to read one text vs multiple input/output labels), if they still need to include input/output info then that doesn't seem like a meaningful advantage anymore

On a sidenote, I think there's a separate discussion that could be had on how "easy" it is, for different people, to understand a recipe just from its name; to give one example: I mentally categorize them by one input and one output; wether I know a recipe's specific name, in addition to just the name of its output or ingredients, is a bonus.

[dusky dust]

Again, my complaint stems entirely from the static images posted as factory "explainers"

I know that my complaints are completely meaningless when actually using the app yourself

As to the big-graph thing, sftools has the extreme advantage that even if an image export is "too big," you can trivially pass someone a URL where things can be inspected and rearranged at will

But if I had to choose between trying to interpret a "very big" Modeller graph versus a "very big" sftools graph, I would still have a far easier time understanding the sftools one

[frosty owl]

I am focusing on the "picture sharing" part of things ^^

[dusky dust]

I'm really not exaggerating when I say that 99% of the modeller graphs I see just look like nonsense to me unless I spend a lot of time trying to piece them together

If you've got a more intuitive understanding of them then maybe you just can't really understand that

But every other graphing system that I've seen used throughout the years to convey information has has basically everything all nice and labelled and I've never had that comprehension problem

Again, maybe some kind of inherent learning disability or something that I've just never noticed, but I find it difficult to convey just how terrible Modeller graphs are for me to follow

And for me it boils down 100% to the lack of labelling

Semi-sidetrack: what in the world was that other one that was pretty common on the wiki for a long time?

Had a couple of different rendering templates to use, if I remember right

[unique cypress]

factoriolab?

[dusky dust]

Ah there we go, this one: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Crude_Oil?oldid=12106#/media/File:Bootstrap_plastic_schematic.png

I liked that one too, in terms of info conveyance

[wind spade]

that one was there pre-current tools 🤔 afaik it died shortly after current tools got out

[dusky dust]

Ahh, gotcha

[frosty owl]

About as intuitive as "icon = item" and "line goes from lower-tier item to higher-tier". I think these are about all the steps needed (albeit the second one is cumbersome and can be made very difficult by users).
To reciprocate with my experience: at the beginning its graphs meant little more than flowcharts to me (I could just understand that things kiinda went in "this" direction), after a few minutes of trying I understood the meaning of most numbers of the nodes and after trying it out myself it was pretty much crystal clear from then onward (and then my appreciation for it over SFTools started to rise, but that's a sidenote, just added to point out how it took a while for me to really understand how many things I could do with it)

[dusky dust]

Still requires all the mental synthesis to go from inputs+output -> recipe, even if you immediately recognize all of those

[frosty owl]

I am quite surprised by how divisive it is 🤷‍♂️
Personally, I find this a shame as it is (imo, and icon-vs-text-debacle aside) currently vastly superior to SFTools in managing and sharing complex productions (which is often what the nerdiest and chattiest like to tackle)

[frosty owl]

If you read a recipe name, you do the opposite: read text, recover from memory to which inputs/outputs it coincides with (unless those are aviable to see on screen, then the info aviable is the same either way)

[wind spade]

out of curiosity, what steps would Tools need to take for them to be able to replace Modeller in your approach? (this is not "I want to force you to use Tools", it's more about "I'm interested in needs of users and maybe I can take some feedback from that for new Tools")

[dusky dust]

Well right, and with (for instance) sftools, those inputs/outputs are available on the screen.

So you get the information both ways

[frosty owl]

With severe limitations, as I highlited before 😅

[dusky dust]

If you know the recipe, great. If you know the inputs, great. If you know neither, all the information is right there all laid out for you

[frosty owl]

Like: if you know the recipe, you benefit from having just a name aviable (you know the rest).
If you don't, the info is near useless as you still need to read input/outputs; in this case, Modeler has them more easily aviable (either it's in the same position as SFT or better as the user nudged it to preference)

[dusky dust]

Anyway, yeah, in the end it's just a question of personal comprehension ability, I guess. I've mostly just given up trying to work through Modeller graphs; they have just never clicked for me at all. I have no doubt that working in Modeller is extremely handy for the folks who like it, but for myself (and some others I've talked to) the graphs commonly shared from Modeller are practically useless to convey info

[dusky dust]

It doesn't, though, because all you get on Modeller graphs tends to be tiny little icons

Which, we're just circling around here

[frosty owl]

"It does" what?

[dusky dust]

I'll just say once more that I'm really not exaggerating how difficult I find Modeller graphs to read. I'm glad they're useful to others but they're far from universal, and my mind finds them so bad that it's frustrating to see their proliferation, especially when such a trivial change in their image exports would completely eradicate the problem for me

Just text labels, that's all I want. Show me recipe names and resource names, I'll be happy

shrug emoji

c'est la vie!

[frosty owl]

I mean... you say that as if any of the ones here actually had any control over that 😅

I don't think most people would actively turn off an option to add text labels when taking screenshots of the plan... if they had such an option

[dusky dust]

Oh, I know that. I did put in a feature request for that but either it was missed or they're just not interested (or it's too low priority)

[frosty owl]

In the meantime, I think it'd be nice to see a modicum of effort put into accepting what is a very valid production plan into the folds of commonly used tools... which includes not bashing people simply for daring to share a picture taken with their production planner of choice (unless they didn't put any effort into making it "readable" ofc :P)
I do agree that it is a bit sad that not all graphs shared can be easily understood by everyone depending on what software is used, but that's where I "c'est la vie" 🤷‍♂️

I didn't intend to play on your words so heavily on the last part, we just tend to talk in a similar manner sometimes @dusky dust 😅

[dusky dust]

Hah, all good

I know for my part I've almost certainly come across a bit too hard about it once or twice, though I have since very consciously refrained from anything which might sound like it's going after a person, and haven't actually brought it up in quite awhile. :)

I only got into it today to clarify my position in re: the "no text" comment. :)

🍻

[frosty owl]

I reiterate: this specific topic is weirdly divisive. The fact that things just "seem so obvious" might be a reason why it can so easily rub some the wrong way

Like: it's weird how quickly heated convos over this specific topic often got. Other (more complex) topics don't devolve like this

[dusky dust]

You're probably right re: the "seem so obvious" angle. Like when I first saw those start to pop up it honestly felt like it was intentional obfuscation. Like medieval alchemy texts which would be written in riddles to try and ensure that only the "worthy" people could gain the knowledge therein

Like it's honestly a very visceral reaction (and as I say, I've talked to other folks who apparently feel the same way)

Bah, and there I was all geared up to stop talking about it after my 🍻

Here, have two more, and I'm really for real gonna shut up about it, because as you say, in the end it's really not worth all the bother. :D 🍻 🍻

[frosty owl]

Btw, I didn't ignore this, I was just a bit too busy...
In order of importance:
0) (I forgot, didn't want to change numbers) The production graph and changes to it should be saved.

1. Interacting with machine nodes and changing production goals/details directly in the graph. The bigger the production, the longer the list of items being produced and the more annoying it gets to scroll from the top of the page where the items are listed to the bottom where the graph is shown. Note: I use Modeler mainly on "manual" simulation mode, with related preferences... that's a stark difference from the normal expectations I have from SFTools.
2. Being able to dictate precisely where the output of which node goes (eg: node A and B make item X with different recipes, nodes C, D and E need X as input; I want node A to produce only for C and send a bit of overflow to storage, while B should make only enough for D and E).
3. Being able to move around labels (and thus connections). This is crucial to keep things organized and readable.
   Edit: 4) Being able to have power generators as "nodes", with inputs and outputs.

I think the picture attached is a great example of a graph that I just could never obtain in SFTools (the production plan alone would take a ton of time just to reproduce on SFTools; I'm not even sure I could've planned it all out using only SFTools in the first place...). I hope it may allow you to appreciate the amount of detail that I could fit into this part of the plan and how clear (relatively speaking) things are despite the complexity and number of overlapping connections.

[frosty owl]

Eh, I enjoyed the convo. Anyway, do have a good one 🍻

[dusky dust]

As did I! But as usual with a topic like this, I often fear I'm too strident and loquacious about it, and I don't want to monopolize a channel like this with my own personal crusades. :D

[frosty owl]

Well, we haven't been banned, so I think we're fine~

[dusky dust]

Yet. We can do better!

[frosty owl]

This would be a great moment for a mod feeling trolly...

[frosty owl]

Btw, @dusky dust if you dare bear the headache and look at the numbers of Generators in this plan (number right below the machine's picture), you might have a glimpse of some really "evil" sushi plans

[dusky dust]

heh

[frosty owl]

Btw, 10.6...+2.6...+0.6... = just 14 Generators
Not the easiest number to balance for, but still... way better than something like 15 or 13

[wind spade]

thanks for the answers. I guess I can summarize them mostly by "allow more manual planning", which is kinda planned for new Tools (though not yet sure about the scope of that).

As for saving of production graph, that's mostly due to bad design choices earlier and now is kinda hard/impossible to do without major reworks, hence why it's not a thing. Though it'll for sure be a thing in new Tools

[uneven void]

wheres the best place to make a alluminium plant

[left anvil]

so I'm currently expanding our central rail network and having trouble finding resources online for reccommended slopes vs # of train cars and was wondering if anyone had a good guide for this or knowledge on the subject as this is the first time we have a slope using 2M ramps

[uneven void]

whats that liquid

icon

[bright juniper]

nitrogen gas

[tidal badge]

Guys What is the amount of packaged water used in a fully overclocked refinery in dilueted packaged fuel alt?

[dusky dust]

The best way to handle Diluted Packaged Fuel (IMO) is with a closed loop of 2x Packagers and 1x Refinery. You can feed it like 20 Empty Packages and that'll generally be enough to let the loop run at full speed

Can fit that even inside the basic 4x4 blueprinter (including the pre-filled packages, and any machine clocking), for easy 1-click deployment

As for how much water (and HOR) to provide, the packagers and refinery can all run at the same clock speed, so determine how much you want one loop to handle and then just look at the machines. :)

[knotty hornet]

I can make you a blueprint if you want.

[tidal badge]

I have a blueprint already. Turning the packaged water into fuel then unpacking then into turbo fuel

[knotty hornet]

Nice

[tidal badge]

I am way from my pc atm so was trying to work out how many packaged water I would need to run 75 of them units at 250 overclock

[knotty hornet]

The answer is: a lot

[tidal badge]

I have the ball park if 11000 but not 100% sure ahaha

[knotty hornet]

150×75 = 11,250

So yeah, pretty close

[tidal badge]

Worst part. That's not even all my oil xP

[knotty hornet]

So 37.5 max clock water extractors

Half that many mk 2 pipes

4 packagers per pipe

[tidal badge]

I have the extractors in. I have a blueprint if 12 extractors so 6 pipes per blueprint. That gives me 3600 packaged water per min

[knotty hornet]

Wait, extractors can't go in blueprints?

[tidal badge]

Not extractors I ment packers

[knotty hornet]

Ah okay

[tidal badge]

Gonna slap 6 of them blueprints in. 3 n a bit to deal with the turbo. The rest to deal with normal fuel

[dusky dust]

If you still haven't actually built this out, btw, I'd highly recommend doing that closed-loop blueprint instead, btw. It sounds like you're planning on bringing packages water in and maybe manifolding that across a bunch of machines

[knotty hornet]

Diluting fuel is sooo handy

Yes, do as apoc says

[tidal badge]

It's gonna be a close loop. I have it planned out to be

[dusky dust]

Which... is possible, sure. But closed loops (ie: take in HOR and Water as fluids, spit out fuel, also as a liquid) are a lot simpler

[tidal badge]

Just not that small of a close loop as it's all sectioned out

[dusky dust]

I suspect you're not using the term the way I am, but: I wish you luck! I also don't envy you the fuel gen placement on this thing. :)

[knotty hornet]

I have a BP with 3 gens, cables, and pipes

If you want

[tidal badge]

If I recall it's close to 200 gens

[uneven void]

in satisfactory there aint no full triangle foundation right?

[knotty hornet]

Sadly no

[uneven void]

alr thx

[knotty hornet]

You could cheese it with corner ramps

But it won't look that great

[uneven void]

yh thats why

[tidal badge]

Tagged u in #screenshots

[dusky dust]

Sorry, I find modeller screenshots to be essentially unreadable

[tidal badge]

Oof. I'm like that with satisfactory tools calculator.

[dusky dust]

The kind I'm talking about honestly doesn't work well in modeling/graphing tools in general, IMO

I'm basically talking little modules which can look something like this

water + HOR goes in on the upper right, fuel comes out the lower left

totally closed single system; preloaded with Empty Packages

[tidal badge]

Ohhhh

[dusky dust]

That layout in particular fits well in a 4x4; if you have larger blueprinters you'll have more wiggle room with layout, etc

[tidal badge]

Mine is a lil bit bigger

[dusky dust]

You can even put the empty packages inside the machine in the blueprint; one-click placement

[tidal badge]

As I don't rlly wanna deal with much headlift with fluids

[dusky dust]

So you're not sending packaged anything around; you're just feeding water+HOR as if it's a little mini-blender

[knotty hornet]

the Broke Boy Blender 😭

[tidal badge]

So I have a blueprint where the emptys go in. And the water comes out. And straight into another blueprint to come back to the first blueprint

But gonna have to try that now ahaha

[knotty hornet]

the whole loop should fit in a Mk 3 blueprinter

[tidal badge]

I only have mk 2

[knotty hornet]

sadge

[tidal badge]

Innit

[knotty hornet]

innit bruv

bo'ol'o'wa'ah

[tidal badge]

But yeah. It's a "closed loop" but it's not that closed.

[knotty hornet]

clopen

[tidal badge]

I'm gonna have to fill it with another minute of water to be able to run it smoothly

[dusky dust]

Anyway, my suggestion is, of course, just one way to do it. :D Good thing there's lots of ways to solve problems in the game. :)

[tidal badge]

Meaning that's 23000 packaged water

Thank goodness I have had emptys being made with sloops ahaha

[knotty hornet]

again, you shouldn't need full machine of packages, cuz they get filled, made, emptied, then looped back within a minute

[tidal badge]

This factory is filling the full blue crator

I think it would take longer then a min to loop back

Will have to test it soon

[knotty hornet]

i went ahead and made you Mk 3 blueprint of the Broke Boy Blender, with 4 refinapackagers in closed belt loops and pipe manifolds

putting in power lines now

[knotty hornet]

you like?

[knotty hornet]

i made a version without floors and pipe extensions for easier modularity

[knotty hornet]

lmk if you want it

three dozen power shards is kinda crazy though

and 671.5 MW is crazy(ish) too.
if you did it with 2@250% + 1@100% Blenders (to make the same 600/min fuel), that would only be 578.7 MW, so this is actually more power-hungry than an equivalent blender setup

3@200% blenders would use 562.5 MW

Spreading load evenly always uses less power than unevenly.

[analog mountain]

Does anybody have any idea how one could use splitters and mergers to split a conveyor carrying 120 items/min into 5 conveyors carrying 24 items/min?

[hushed kettle]

you split the belt into 6 then merge one of the outputs back in

[knotty hornet]

"priority merge" specifically

[whole heron]

You can't use a manifold? If you can't, it looks like a five way load balancer problem.

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Balancer

Basically do what Barb just said.

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[summer flare]

You need a 1 to 5 way assembly. If the input is 120/min and you're limited to Mk.2 belts then the 6 way split and merging 1 back has a bottleneck, so here's a couple of non-bottleneck solutions.

[spiral hornet]

Would using uranium fuel rods as drone fuel be viable? I know they would last a long time i am worried about saturating each refuel port. How much should i realisticly produce to easily saturate each new port?

[deep python]

Can someone tell me y my water extractors are storing water even tho there's barely any water down at the end of it? I've got 8 coal generators hooked up to 1 pipe which worked with 2 extractors and 4 coal generators but genes 7 and 8 are losing water? (in the order they get water) nothing overclocked its just 8 normal coal genes being fed 3 water extractors worth of water in mk1 pipes

[unique cypress]

check how much a mk1 pipe can transport

[deep python]

Ah- that'll do it 🤣

Looks like im limited to 6 coal genes to a pipe then 😔

[unique cypress]

you can connect one extractor to the other end instead and it'll work with 8

[deep python]

So run a pipe into the other end and separate genes 7 and 8 from the others?

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[deep python]

I mean 450MW should suffice me to be able to comfortably start producing the stuff in advanced steel production I hope

[unique cypress]

^the 2nd setup from the bot message

[mint coral]

is there a list of bot commmands pinned somewher?

[unique cypress]

not that I'm aware of

[mint coral]

🙁 i keep forgetting lol

notepad time

[deep python]

Hmm, I think if push comes to shove I'll make another 6gene otherwise id have to expand my coal plant

Granted I could always separate it from my main base and make it a proper coal plant instead of having it connected to my base 👀

That can be a future me problem as im exhausted and its currently 1:15am for me 😅

[unique cypress]

pipes can flow both ways so you can connect stuff to both ends of a pipe just fine.

or you can use any other setup. the only limitation is 300/min on each pipe segment, not the entire pipe. if you top it up every now and then, you can feed as many coal gens as you want

[deep python]

Ohhh ok, so I could have 6:1 (genes to extractor) and just repeat that process? providing i have the coal output

[unique cypress]

1 extractor isn't enough to feed 6 gens, but yeah, technically you can have a pipe that's as long as you want connected to as many gens as you want, as long as there's enough extractors and they're equally spaced along the pipe

but I'd recommend sticking to 8:3 or maybe 16:6 setups

they're perfectly ratioed so no reason to expand them larger - just build multiple

[deep python]

I think a 16:6 will work until I unlock the next form of power 🤔 how much usable power would a 16:6 give me without overclocking?

[unique cypress]

16*75-6*20 = 1080 MW

well, minus whatever the miners consume, but that depends

[deep python]

That's so much power, i don't even think i want to know how much coal that'll require 😭 the second closest coal deposit is like 300 metres away 😭 id have to grind for so long (Granted most of that will probably be spent getting more constructors and assemblers up and producing more stuff)

[unique cypress]

16*15 = 240. just 2 full mk2 belts

[deep python]

Wait wtf, I've got a mk2 miner with a mk3 belt 😃 that's enough to power my factory till I need to double my pay and even then i can overclock the mine 😭 good thinking past me

Wait, would that put to much strain on the conveyers having to split it 16 or so times? Wouldn't it slowly run out of coal due it being split so many times or am i overthinking?

[unique cypress]

conveyors don't delete items. you put in 240, 240 must end up somewhere

[deep python]

Trueeee i suppose if I build a manifold correctly it'll keep all of them fueled 🤔

[deep python]

Thx for the help, im going to get some sleep 😂

[digital wing]

Ive made a dual railway that goes all the way around the map, w the main station(s) being the start of my mega base. Maybe im being dumb, but how should i connect the second rail to the train station?

[dusky dust]

I generally build stations like so: #math-and-meta message

Or something similar, anyway

[digital wing]

I did smth kind of similar

I just really wanna keep it so the left rail goes clockwise and the right goes anti clockwise

And thats its expandable for future stations

The idea is to bring in the bulk of the resources to the base

So i can automate factory parts and the t9 stuff there

[dusky dust]

Fwiw, I tend to recommend building out a "web" of rail rather than one big loop; forcing all trains onto one main loop feels like a recipe for congestion, especially if you're sending a lot of stuff to a centralized location

Though of course since you've already built it, you can just diagnose and fix congestion problems if they do pop up. :)

[digital wing]

It will end up being a web

The loop is just to branch stations out from

But its pretty contingent on the notion that trains dont sit in a station if they have full cargo or cant unload

Which i dont think happens

[tulip fiber]

I’ve got 5 pipes, each carrying 480 water/min.
I need one of them to split water into 4 other pipes, sending exactly 80 water/min to each, and dump the remaining 100 water/min

how to do it

(please dont send me pipeline manual i dont get it )

[unique cypress]

first thing you need to understand is that you can't just split pipes how you like. because they're gonna split themselves how they like. and it's not gonna be what you want

[tulip fiber]

there has to be a way to control it someway

[unique cypress]

connect pipes to machines that produce/consume x, and on average, x will be flowing through that pipe

[crimson moat]

Pipes split equally, and only achieve max flow rates when doing either no splits or equal splits. Forcing them to do otherwise creates slosh.

If there is enough flow rate headroom (for example, you're putting 400m3/min into a pipe which can move 600m3/min max) then it will dynamically rebalance itself and flow where it needs to, but that does slosh and cost flow rate headroom.

[bright juniper]

how would I configure sf optimizer around producing 1200 sing cells /min, with no waste in the power setup?

I'm a bit in over my head

[unique cypress]

ok, so, first of all, you need to give it resources. either by using input or extraction

for input, you have to give it a set input of every resource you want it to use, but also an unlimited output of said resource. if you give it input with no output, it'll be forced to use all of it. you can also give it unlimited input, and then you don't need to set output, it'll take however much it needs

for extraction, you need to enable extraction recipes and give it nodes it'll have access to. probably also set 250% overclocking for miners

in the output, set 1200 sing cells for it to produce those

if you want waste-free by sinking plutonium, you also need to enable sinking recipes and allow it to output sink points (you probably want that regardless). It will not generate any byproducts without it being allowed to generate them

power generation recipes need to be enabled separately too (though burning uranium and plutonium are included in the production category)

if you want it to produce exactly enough power, you need to set max power consumption to 0, as well as give it something to optimize for that isn't power (which is its default setting)

if you don't give it something to optimize for, it'll just spend all resources on generating power

[digital wing]

Does anyone know why its saying path invalid after the train docks? If i drive it forward a few meters, the train can self drive no problem it just cant get out of the station

It can also complete the entire track and return by itself after ive driven it a bit out of the station

I’m very confused

[mint coral]

I had this problem. Deleting the track after the station aswell as the station and replacing them fixed it for me

For me it refused to go in. Then when I took control it fell off the track for no reason. So it may have been a diffrent issue

[digital wing]

I did that and it didnt fix it

[deft lichen]

Station is likely rotated wrong

They have a fixed arrival direction, not a departure direction

[digital wing]

Wait so the arrow points in the way they leave or srrive?

[deft lichen]

Arrive

[digital wing]

Oh

Thats probably it then lemme try

[deft lichen]

As in ----> D roof

The arrow points in the driving direction, not which side it arrives from

[mint coral]

Yes , the rounded part of the roof faces out

[unique cypress]

---- [] [] [] [) ----> that's how it should look like from the top

[digital wing]

Its meant to down off screen, in the way the train is facing

Like im trying to loop it back to this same station

[digital wing]

I need 2 stations to make it loop back on itself?

[unique cypress]

what does this even mean?

[wet coral]

What do you mean loop back on itself?

[digital wing]

I’m ngl this is what has confused me lol

[digital wing]

Like it goes around the track to the same station it departs from

[unique cypress]

what's the point of that lol

[wet coral]

You need a second station on another part of the track

[digital wing]

So it cant just go in a circuit and finish at the same point in starts?

[wet coral]

I don’t think that’s how it works

[digital wing]

Ok thats fine then ty mate

[wet coral]

It’d be easier for me to explain if you saw my train

[unique cypress]

trains always do that. go along their timetable in order and then loop back to the start. but it needs at least 2 stations on the timetable

[wet coral]

Or you can set it to visit two stations

It will go between the two

☺️

Also small question. When working with fluids, can valves reduce slosh back?

[unique cypress]

no, but they can make it worse :)

[wet coral]

What can reduce the amount of slosh?

[unique cypress]

good pipeline design

[wet coral]

Yea I’m no good at this

Belt organization, fuck yea I am. But pipes and fluids nope

[digital wing]

Poorly drawn, but the line that comes back is above the pipes

[dusky bronze]

theres a plumbing manual somewhere in the pins for this channel thats pretty helpful

[digital wing]

Can anyone recommend a layout for building a centralised train station

[wet coral]

I CAN

[digital wing]

So i have a loop around the map, ill have branches off that going to various stations which transport stuff to the main hub

[wet coral]

I actually have my own ideas about this😱

[digital wing]

But i need a decent amount of stations in the main hub so i can unload everything regularly and theres not a bunch of traffic

[digital wing]

Pls help :)))

[wet coral]

I was gonna say hop in a vc but there are no vcs here😭

[dusky dust]

Too difficult to moderate properly

[digital wing]

We can just do a normal call

gimme a sec, check your dm

[wet coral]

I’m down for that. I can give you some ideas with my own builds

[bright juniper]

ok that's all well and all, but where do I put the problem file? What name should it be?

[unique cypress]

name it whatever, put it wherever. because you need to give its address as an argument when you launch satisfactory-optimizer.py

easiest would be the same folder, because then you only need to give the name

[bright juniper]

and do I give the name to options.py? I haven't done anything with python so I'm kinda lost

[unique cypress]

satisfactory-optimizer.py is the only file you launch. it'll launch the other files by itself

to launch it with arguments, you need to open CMD, change the folder to where satisfactory-optimizer.py is and type in python3 satisfactory-optimizer.py problem.json (replace problem with whatever you named the file)

I think you need to select "add to PATH" when installing python for that to work?

And maybe pip install all the packages SF Optimizer uses? not sure, it's been a while since I ran Python from the console

[deep fulcrum]

Is there a way of automatically making machines fully load up on the input as a way to get a manifold working at full efficiency faster?

[unique cypress]

smart splitters to fill one at a time. or hanfeed

[shadow sinew]

I´d like some advice on aluminum, I´m asking if you guys recommend using pure aluminum, or the default ingot recipe using silica?, I just casually wanted to make 350 radio control units, but it turns out that´s about 63% of the max bauxite production using pure ingots and no converters xd

[shadow sinew]

what I usually do is set up storage on the previous step working on the background as I make the next one, so there´s a huge influx of resources at the start to fill the manifold, usually just what´s in the machine is enough

[deep fulcrum]

So, if I understand correctly, you power your machines bit by bit so the next section has plenty of materials to use?

[shadow sinew]

in effect yes, but I dont leave machines unpowered, I just build say the iron smelter array, and while I build the iron plate fabricators there´s already plenty of ingots on the smelters ready to fill the manifold

[deep fulcrum]

Interesting, I might use that and see how it goes

[shadow sinew]

I´m also doing phases of construction, for example, I have a cooling system factory running at 50 per min to get components for t3 miners and some supercomputers, and then I´ll come back and build another aluminum and heat sink line, and then another line of blenders for another 50 coolers per min, until I go up to the full 250 per min I have planned

well, it´s not running at 50 per min rn because I understimated the motors I needed, but it´s the idea that counts xd

[unique cypress]

Ah, yes, a 5 km pipeline lmao

XD you can see where it's going via the clearance boxes

oh god it's replicable

[unkempt wharf]

how would i put 180 screws into 3 assemblers? i only have mk2 and the screws are cast screws so each output is 50 screws

[dusky dust]

In front of each assembler, have dedicated machine(s) making exactly 60/min screws, direct-feeding to the assembler

High-volume items like screws/wire/quickwire are often easiest to deal with if you direct-feed with dedicated machines, instead of trying to manifold them

One of the reasons why so many people dislike screws is that they try to make them all in one place, and then route them around a factory with slow belts. As you've noticed, doing so is annoying AF. :)

[unkempt wharf]

i cant do that since i already have the layout to make cast screws and i dont have overclocking ):

[unique cypress]

I'd do a 2:3 balacer or mixer lol

[dusky dust]

You don't actually have to underclock to get exact rates; though I would recommend spending the time to find a few slugs and unlock clocking anyway

You could alternatively just supply the screw-making machines with enough material to make 60/min, and have two of them anyway

Nominally your two Cast Screws machines would be producing 100/min screws, but if you only give them enough resources for 60/min then that's all they'll make. They'll just go idle a bunch

[unkempt wharf]

il prob just unlock clocking lol

[crimson moat]

Only takes a minute, one of the first things you should do in t1

and yes, just merge 2x30 screws and put that belt into an assembler

[unkempt wharf]

i just never really do the tech tree stuff unless i need it lol

[unique cypress]

you should do the exact opposite. do as much mam research as you physically can

[crimson moat]

It's full of stuff that you don't literally need, but you practically need

(alt recipies too, like getting heavy encased frames before making hmf)

[unkempt wharf]

alr ty

[bright juniper]

@unique cypress Eyy thank you! I think that this'll be my plan for this playthrough

[mild solar]

guys will the signals interfere with each other if the tracks are like this

[limpid rain]

Is there a list somewhere of materials sorted by "tier"? Like T0 would be wood, mycelia, biomass, etc

[unique cypress]

Yeah, just scroll down to the bottom of any item's wiki page

[limpid rain]

🙏 Ty. Im about to do a major expansion for the first time, and I want to make sure I allow space for each type of basic input in case Ive missed or overlooked something somehow

[dusky bronze]

yes

i have no idea whats going on with the intersection but at the very least the elevation differences are going to cause problems

[steel knot]

sorry, i thought i had it. somehow the RCU's worked out but this blueprint for 1 Heavy Encased Frame isn't. I limited the frame within the blueprint and went down to miners but a) it lets me go over the limit of heavy frames and b) deleting the miner output doesn't fix anything:

[crude tinsel]

who wanna play?

[unique cypress]

A blueprint is not an outpost (and vice versa)

A blueprint is a small group of machines (that fits in a blueprinter) that's meant to be pasted over and over to achieve desired output.

An outpost is like a folder - it's a satellite factory, a large, but mostly independent part of a factory, or an entire factory

Blueprints are meant to be pasted X times, an outpost exists exactly once.

Sure, you set a limit inside the blueprint, but modeler doesn't know how many of those blueprints you want, because you didn't set any numbers - neither the number of BPs directly nor the ore input that'd unambiguously determine the number of BPs

[unique cypress]

#1201555265942724758

[crude tinsel]

You fine folks sure do seem smart.

[glad ibex]

!wikisearch biomass

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=biomass

[glad ibex]

!wikisearch biomass setups

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=biomass+setups

[deep python]

Does anyone know y my test coal plant isnt getting enough water to power all 16 of them? I've got it setup in a pair of 8:3 but they dont seem to be getting enough water? The first 4 in each seem to run perfectly its just the other 4 in both that'll start and stop, I've got pumps going and everything to potentially deal with headlift but its not working?

[spiral hornet]

why is there no recipe for compacted coal on satisfactory-calculator?

[frosty owl]

Check the machines. They'll tell you what they lack, then you can focus on "why" that thing is lacking/not reaching the machines

[frosty owl]

Because it's a bad calculator

[deep python]

I figured it out 🫠 its because its going through 1 pioe so instead of getting ALL the water it needs its missing out on 60m³

[knotty hornet]

Classic first time coal error

I'd wager at least 60% of players fall for it the first time

[deep python]

I believe to have fixed my water issue, instead of having 1 pipe attempting to feed 8 genes intelligent i know i have split them into what a stock exhaust is for a car and having 1 pipe feed 4 omg im learning pipes

[unique cypress]

Because it's on by default and you cannot turn it off (or on)

That said, SCIM's production planner is a terrible calculator and there are 0 reasons to use it over literally anything else

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

example layouts using 2 input pipes, yes 🙂 Keep making it in groups of 3:8. Simple and reliable

[deep python]

Yeah ik KYO showed me last night so I was building it off that, just making it more compact and longer, I first thought of having them in separate groups but I decided id just have them in a line, it only needs an 10x8 foundation and it fits in pretty snug and its symmetrical asf

I just sometimes forget u can shove as much water as u want through pipes 😂

[vapid gorge]

coal is pretty resilient to silly piping - so as long as you get the througput right it's hard to go wrong

but in that way it's also kinda bad as you might get bad habits

[deep python]

Surely it would be more efficient to run something other then that many coal genes right? 😅

[vapid gorge]

define 'efficient' ?
not going to use that coal for anything else and it's very fast to put up with a blueprint

and that gets me to tier 7 pretty easily

[deep python]

Ah ok

I suppose nuclear is more like the real life counter part with it being a pain to get it set up at first but pays off after a bit when it's done

[vapid gorge]

ehhh not really. The base recipes are very simple

even if you do the uranium efficient recipes it's just more material. Nothing onerous

[deep python]

Oh ok

[vapid gorge]

and you can easily make hte rods in a different place than where you burn them, drones do it easily. And then you could drone the waste somewhere too 🙂

[deep python]

Have they added nuclear waste recycling into more fuel yet or is just green goo in yellow barrels?

[vapid gorge]

yeah you can make it into plutonium rods if you like

it's easy to store in a corner of the map if you like though

[deep python]

Yoo that's sick ass

[deep python]

Ah so what we do with actual nuclear waste 🤣

[vapid gorge]

basically

I'll process the waste elsewhere into P rods though and use them to fuel drones.

[deep python]

I keep on forgetting how in depth this game is 😂😅 im still on phase 2 of the space elevator and figuring out my quickly dwindling power supply 😅

[vapid gorge]

well the best thign about the game is there's no single path to any particular goal
you could keep building coal power
decide on fuel?

doing diluted fuel is pretty potent early on

needs a couple alt recipes though

[deep python]

Diluted fuel?

[vapid gorge]

alt recipe for fuel

[split sierra]

diluted packaged fuel

just add water

[vapid gorge]

Oil > Heavy oil residue alt recipe > diluted fuel alt

[unique cypress]

It's 4x more oil efficient than the default recipe for fuel (if you use the heavy oil residue alt too), and with it and recycled plastic and rubber, you gain access to a recipe chain that's 4.5 times more oil efficient than the default recipes for plastic or rubber

[deep python]

Ah

Jesus

[shadow sinew]

definately not space efficient though, so I´d recommend doing it at one of the sea oil fields

[faint oracle]

yeah, im using heavy oil residue, diluted fuel, and nitro rocket fuel for my 144000mw power plant, heavy oil residue and diluted fuel are IMO the best alt recipes in the game

[dusky dust]

Adding to what Cobalt said; there's two paths to "clean" nuclear: as mentioned already, one is that you can process Uranium waste into Plutonium Rods; those rods are sinkable (and, indeed, if you're going to sink them anyway, they make a good drone fuel, if you don't mind irradiating drone ports)

The other option is that if you instead burn the Pu Rods for more power, you'll generate Pu Waste. The clean option there is to them convert that waste to Ficsonium Rods, which can be burnt without generating any more waste

(Ficsonium is quite "expensive" resource-wise and gives you very little extra power, so some folks don't like to do that)

[steel knot]

I swear every time I try to work out vertically stacking blueprints my brain hurts. Same vibe as recursive functions

[blissful epoch]

i collected a ton of resources. could anyone give me a clue on how to calculate my best route to the last three items for phase 5?

[unique cypress]

well, first of all, I wouldn't use the input tab in tools, because it considers those items to be free and will happily waste them

[blissful epoch]

these items are free

[unique cypress]

then just put the desired items as output and bump the numbers until it fails to calculate or does something you don't want to do (like resource conversion)

you can also use maximize mode, but it can only do an equal amount of multiple items

[blissful epoch]

it wants to use only 5% of my iron though, while say iron wire could easily replace a bunch of copper

[tidal badge]

anyone able to jump in a vc with me and help out? im rlly confued

[unique cypress]

like I said, it considers input resources to be free. 10 copper or 1 iron costs exactly the exact same to use (0), as long as it's still under the limit

if you want a caluclator that can weigh manual inputs, you'll need SF Optimizer

[tidal badge]

this dosnt seem right. as when i did it in the past it said i needed 75 to make the turbo fuel

[frosty owl]

You can try to approach this by disabling unwanted recipes, but it sounds weird that it's not using as much resources as it could when you "maximize"...
Did you perhaps "maximize" for more than one item?

[digital wing]

Im trying to get the purple rail which crosses over to join the main track to be part of the yellow block but im not sure how

[blissful epoch]

make sure the height is level!

[unique cypress]

75 what

[unique cypress]

yeah, the intersection needs to be completely level

[tidal badge]

its all good, i just this second noticed i did the maths is wrong

[digital wing]

Thanks guys! That fixed it

[stray tapir]

Hey - made a new planning tool at https://satisfactoryplanner.net/. Completely free, no advertising

[crimson moat]

✨

That's belt lag. Some of the belts between the fuel rod output and the reactors are longer than others

[vapid gorge]

well only put in the % of the items coming in as input, you could also reduce the available ore to what you want in that tab

after that it's pretty much just planning as normal, you could put in all the space part inputs into one plan, but that can get messy, I'd probably do individual plans, though that'll be a bit more work figuring out which of the inputs will get used where

[versed violet]

is there an achievement for collecting all the slugs*/hard drives/dropped items/shrooms?
(left one purple slug for decoration in my base)

[unique cypress]

For all of them? No

[versed violet]

meh. I'll just buy myself a piece of cake

[crimson moat]

I think i've just found a weird case where headlift was insufficient despite the pump never reading more than 48.3m of headlift

There were intermittent flow cutouts

i added another pump above this 48.2m, and the headlift readouts changed to 16.2 + 37.5, plus the flow disruptions disappeared.

[dusky dust]

I've definitely had issues like that with pumps right near the headlift limits, though I'd have expected it to be okay at 48.2

Though I generally give myself a healthy margin while placing them

[crimson moat]

Funny thing is that this is also victim of either the inconsistent pipe length bug or the vertical junction free headlift. Most of the pipes read only ~43m headlift despite having the same starting and ending height.

but a few are built slightly differently and they have a phantom extra 5m+ of headlift requirement added to climb the same height, which takes them to 48.3m, which then doesn't work with the mk.2 pump.

headscratcher

[unique cypress]

Meanwhile, today I thought I finally found a VIP design that didn't work despite being built correctly, but no, auto-connect just turned all of my water pipes into nitrogen ones

[crimson moat]

The actual height delta, pump top to pump top, is less than 44 meters. But some pipes read 48.3 and don't work with a mk.2 pump due to apparently needing even more than that.

[unique cypress]

Placing the pipe manually doesn't allow mixing fluid types, but AC has no such limit. Well, they still don't mix, but one apparently just gets erased

[crimson moat]

Haha

[unique cypress]

Or maybe converted, didn't check if the pipes were full or empty immediately after that making mistake

I'm so used to working with empty pipes when building that I didn't even realise that AC making a connection between a nitrogen pipe and a water pipe would be an issue. Just let it make that connection, removed it, and continued pulling the pipe

Came back later to all the scrap refineries filled with water and the water pipes filled with nitrogen

[crimson moat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UZFI-8D5uA

[frosty owl]

The UI looks quite nice... Can it handle sushi?
Do feel free to pitch describe it if you want~

[bright juniper]

what makes yours different from the myraid of other calculators?

[deft lichen]

would you like it added to the list of online tools on the wiki?
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Online_tools

[vapid gorge]

just looks like a layout tool?

if there's a method to make it drop down a plan with recipe choices I don't see it :\

[deft lichen]

I need to supply them with power...?

[bright juniper]

sf optimizer is not on that page?

[deft lichen]

if you don't see it then it's not

I don't keep track of all the tools, if you have the link I can add it too

[vapid gorge]

yeah I would call this a layout tool, not a planner.
Unless there's a section that actually outputs a production line with selected recipes that I'm completely missing

[bright juniper]

https://github.com/Zistack/Satisfactory-Optimizer

[deft lichen]

python script? ah

[bright juniper]

Ye

it’s the best planner which I’ve come across, though it’s a bit trickier to use than your general tool

[deft lichen]

I suppose that falls under manual calculation and layout tools

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Online_tools#Manual_calculation_and_layout_tools added

[vapid gorge]

I don't really see the point of layout tools. They're always so much slower than taking a few notes when you've got the macro plan sorted

[bright juniper]

:D

[unique cypress]

Yeah, no, I don't think it does

[deft lichen]

hm?

running a python script sounds pretty manual, but I don't mind moving it

[unique cypress]

It's an optimizer, like SFTools. Just with way more customisation

[deft lichen]

ohh in that sense

dunno where to categorize it then

micro planning? does it work with individual buildings or just item counts?

[unique cypress]

Same as Tools imo. In the end, you get basically what's in Tools' "Items", "Power" and "Buildings" tabs. It doesn't give graphs, because it's text based, but its output can be directly turned into a Tools plan if you didn't touch clock speeds or sloops or planned power generation (which are things Tools can't do directly)

[deft lichen]

so macro planning desktop app

weirdly the same category as Modeler

if there are any other tools that exist and aren't on that page, feel free to ping @ wiki manager (I have the role too) or add it directly to the bottom of the list in the respective category

[hoary pulsar]

16 generator , 8 water pump at 90mq3, the line in the middle at 180mq feed the last four and the two lateral fill the first six of every side…did I miss something?

[vapid gorge]

seems fine?

[hoary pulsar]

I’m new I’m asking for be sure

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[hoary pulsar]

For what i see the liquid are tricky

[vapid gorge]

these are some common layouts? easy for beginners

[vapid gorge]

Coal generators are super tolerant of less than perfect piping

pretty much as long as you respect throughput limits you're fine
other pipe systems just reqwuires some basic knowledge

[vapid gorge]

you have a couple groups of 3 extractors on one pipe here, are they all doing 120?

[hoary pulsar]

So can I avoid using a valve?

[hoary pulsar]

90+90+90=270

And the last two feed the central for the last four

[vapid gorge]

the diagrams are handy because they just require 3 extractors and 1x mk2 belt of coal per group. No clocking needed

this is a variation on them https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1437572960004083722/1437573943774150738/image.png?ex=691a5411&is=69190291&hm=7b9afd1a0762896642cbdc69861e99c176481a706e7f75b91f061e282c06742d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1305&height=709

[hoary pulsar]

I still don't understand the reason for the return connection

[vapid gorge]

technically it doesn't need the connection here

as long as there's 2 input pipes

its effectively this layout

[hoary pulsar]

Ok

[past igloo]

Is it inefficient to connect one dimensional depot to each of the outputs on a single industrial storage container? Will the container just prioritize a single output to flow once there's additional space in the both dimensional depots? Or will it allow both outputs to flow at the same time, giving me effectively 480 uploads/min to the dimensional depots instead of 240? (The industrial storage crate only contains one type of item)

[vapid gorge]

@tranquil skiff you have no packages going in

[tranquil skiff]

I put packages inside it

[vapid gorge]

what does the control panel look like?

[crimson moat]

It will only send one output unless both are being input to

But overall the depot upload speed will limit you, not the speed that you can feed it

[vapid gorge]

image of the control panel?

[past igloo]

I understand, I thought by using two dimensional depots linked to the same Industrial storage crate I could double the upload speed.

[tranquil skiff]

it started working

[crimson moat]

You can, but only use 1 output, then split that into 2 belts and put one in each depot

[vapid gorge]

you'll likely have flow issues with this though, you're feeding from below as the pipe goes up, could cause back flow issues

[tranquil skiff]

i only needed 100 of them

[past igloo]

Gotcha, thanks!

[vapid gorge]

I mean fair, just warning you you could stutter the system 🙂

[outer dirge]

First actually non slapped together reinforced plates factory

ik its basic and small but its at least perfect efficiency

Kinda sucks tho cause using impure iron veins

[vapid gorge]

if it works it works - also no real difference between purities besides parts per min
and when you unlock overclocking thats even less of an issue

[outer dirge]

I mean the main thing is it's not expandable because if im mining way more i would need more constructors etc

But i only just started phase 2 so im just kinda chilling making whatever i feel like for now

I guess I could expand it by copying the exact same design a floor up lol

[steel knot]

oh man i just discovered drones for nitrogen shipping...

what a game changer

[vapid gorge]

the game isn't reaaaalllly meant to be expandable. So don't stress out about it

at least not expandable and efficient/tidy

[outer dirge]

Preciate it

Def have noticed it can be an issue with space to expand and its easier to make another factory instead

So far i havent taken any builds ive made down in favor of rebuilding i've just built new stuff elsewhere

[shell steeple]

Can someone help fix?

[somber heath]

i need some help balancing some belts im trying to put them evenly into the three containers im making 1440 screws but the two further belts each have 250 output the two in the meddle both have 375 and the merger in front of me have 190 but i cant figure out how to combine them or if its even possible. any help will be greatly appreciated

[bright juniper]

shouldn't the train station dock be at the other end?

[shell steeple]

I don’t know is that the reason why it stopping?

And also my problem is it stopping and not getting loaded I didn’t realize the video cut off

[vapid gorge]

overhead image pls? will give a lot more info

[vapid gorge]

multiple floors can help wit hthis too 🙂

[bright juniper]

just find a balancer design for how many belts of input and how many belts of output

[somber heath]

is there a good website for it?

[outer dirge]

fo sho

Eventually prob gonna have to rebuild some stuff but ill worry about it later

[bright juniper]

google

[vapid gorge]

if you just want all 3 belts to be evenly fed to 3 inputs, split each belt into 3, merge 1 of each.
done

[bright juniper]

scim has all of these

[shell steeple]

It works thank you

[somber heath]

was just looking at that im just confused on what im looking at on them

[vapid gorge]

it's how many incoming belts to outgoing outputs

[somber heath]

i have 5 im trying to merge into 3 and they all have different outputs

[vapid gorge]

oh I thought it was 3 to 3

do the same thing
split each of the 5 into 3, merge one of each

[somber heath]

okay ill try that out thank you

[vapid gorge]

in general I'll always advise to use clocking and selective merging to put what you need on the belts in the first places 🙂 saves you effort and all that space and time

[somber heath]

ya im just getting into the blue prints and im having some learning the hard way im trying to not dismantle the whole thing lol

i forgot about the limit my belts have when i built it

think i got it now gonna run a numbers test to see if they belts get clogged

[somber heath]

i added another belt and merger and had to make the belts mark 1 but its going good now thanks for the help 🙂

[past igloo]

Where did I go wrong with my load balancer? Trying to make 2x 300 belts into 340, 200 and 60 (from bottom left to right). Or is it just the throughput monitors telling lies? All connections are Mk4 belts.

[manic lynx]

just wondering for the generators how many rows am i going to need per mk2 pipe advice is always welcome.

[vapid gorge]

decide how much you'll have in each pipe, make rows based on consumption and clocking
if you run lower mk pipes you'll have more freedom in layouts as well.

[manic lynx]

im going to be running all generators at normal clock speed. and was thinking of using a mk2 pipe as the main pipe then use mk 1 pips to connect the generators to the mk 2 pipe. im just wondering how many rows will i be able to get out of each mk2 pipe?

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch FPG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=FPG

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch fuel powered generator

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=fuel+powered+generator

[vapid gorge]

here you go.
But I really recommend both over clocking the system so you don't have 500 generators and having shorter main pipes to make your piping easier

having multiple groups of 300 flow pipes won't significantly impact things and will make life easier for you.
you do you though

[manic lynx]

thanks for the help its greatly appreciated i do want to avoid having to make 59 rows of 6 generators per row

[vapid gorge]

oh sure but 300 pipes will do a lot more than that. Up to you though and how much effort and planning you want to put in your pipes 🙂

[manic lynx]

but i am un sure how the over clocking will effect the over all number of generators

[vapid gorge]

linear

250% is 2.5x as much fuel

[manic lynx]

lol thanks for that i was looking at the wrong fuel graph i was looking at normal fuel not turbo fuel. thank again for your help

[summer flare]

Load balancing relies on the normal round robin behaviour of splitters and mergers.
Is your 200 output actually being allowed, because it looks like the items to its output merger are backing up and will cause overflow further back?

[pastel obsidian]

You can try something like this

[quasi whale]

what fuel do you all use for drones?

[unique cypress]

I don't used drones but if I did I'd use packaged RF

[pastel obsidian]

I try and use Packaged Rocket Fuel but i am not that fussed.

[vapid gorge]

whatever you have on hand, at least early on. regular fuel does the trick. Later on after nuclear stuff? plutonium rods

[quasi whale]

does that just make random parts of the map randomly radioactive?

[vapid gorge]

only where the drones are. And iodine filters in a dimensional depot removes that from being an issue

[spare kernel]

Anybody got any good alternate recipes for this project to decrease the needed ressources? I already selected a few I think will work well

[vapid gorge]

would have to see the whole thing

I'd aim for the alloy and tempered recipes though just so you don't get infinite refineries

[spare kernel]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=uOUvy7fbKd5mcVusMkWV

[spare kernel]

Instead of the pure ones?

[vapid gorge]

yeah, give me a sec

[wind spade]

Select all you have/want, Tools save resources by default

[vapid gorge]

see what you think of this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=HFNFmAPujQLUbzJuZmBX

[unique cypress]

select all recipes, then disable resources/recipes you don't want to use

[vapid gorge]

it's 1/2 the building count and almost 1/4 the refineries, plus some good good resource trades?

oh and it cuts out coal entirely which can be nice

[vapid gorge]

personally I find it easier to swap recipes in and out to see what it spits out. Forces it down paths

[spare kernel]

Yeah, definetly better then mine, since I dont need to use 2500 coal

What do you say to the amounts of items im producing, do I need more and where should I build it. Was thinking bout the dune desert

[vapid gorge]

seems fine? you don't use space parts for anythign other than space parts so it's really a personal goal 🙂

a lot of people don't bother fully automating them

[spare kernel]

I made the mistake to not automate the parts before, which i regret now

Thanks for the advices

[vapid gorge]

I mean you do you. Before I do my own projects I'll have large containers of overflowed items and I'll hand fill a few containers ot make the space parts

after I unlock everything, if my goal is to make automated space parts? sure I'll wrangle all that

[spare kernel]

Im a bit worried that im using too many ressources now and later on I dont have enough to do other mandatory stuff

[vapid gorge]

in this plan or in general?

cause this isn't huge

[spare kernel]

in gerneal

[vapid gorge]

unless you're burning SAM like kindling on ficsonium it's pretty hard to do

[spare kernel]

okay

Where would you build the factory? Dune Desert?

[vapid gorge]

dune wouldn't be terrible at first glance

[spare kernel]

Most of the materials are already there

[vapid gorge]

yeah just looking at the numbers. If you don't have a large project you want to do in the dune desert later? yeah might be a solid choice

[spare kernel]

I dunno, maybe gonna expand this factory to a phase 5 factory

since all the parts are already there

[vapid gorge]

well besides the bauxite, but droning thigns in isn't hard

[spare kernel]

This is currently my world

Unfortunately I dont have mk6 belts yet, but I think Im just going to build like I have mk6 and upgrade the belts right after I unlock them

[shadow sinew]

seems like you´ve been taking your time with the tiers

I rushed through the first few tiers, but I do have the objective of making 50 thermal rockets per minute and 600-1200 uranium worth of nuclear before tier 9

or at least get it ready, so of my factories do require mk3 miners with fully overclocked pure nodes, but ig I´ll prebuild everything and just upgrade the one belt

[mint girder]

how do i signal this?

[unique cypress]

path in, block out, as usual?

I would move the slope away from the intersection though

[spare kernel]

Yeah, ive taken alot of time

[mint girder]

like this?

[shadow sinew]

I see most players do at grade rail crossings, why not do a few grade separated crossings?, I aim to do it for all my main route, with some exceptions Im trying to figure out how to route

[mint girder]

moving the slope away would take like half an hour at least

[unique cypress]

how is that path in block out

paths on all entrances, blocks on all exits

[mint girder]

idk how signals work 😭

[unique cypress]

3 of each

plus you also need to put them 1 segment away from the intersection itself due to our favourite 1.1 switch bug

[mint girder]

sorry wdym 🙃

[unique cypress]

https://docs.ficsit.app/satisfactory-modding/latest/CommunityResources/TrainSignalGuide.html

as for the bug (which isn't mentioned in the guide because the bug is new), you just need to put the signals away from places where 2 tracks merge/split. if you put a signal right at the split, it's very likely to glitch out. because you can't put the signal inside the intersection, they need to be placed away from it

[unique cypress]

intersection looks correct. now you need to signal the rest of the network :)

[mint girder]

just the same way right?

[unique cypress]

on straighaways you need block signals every 100 m or so

[mint girder]

it needs to fit the length of the actual train + 4 freight cars right

[mint girder]

oh what why

[hoary pulsar]

Question to those who are more experienced, what is the most efficient way to produce copper and iron ingots? From what I see it seems to be the refineries

[mint girder]

ye refineries i think

[unique cypress]

it doesn't. it can be spaced more or less than that and it'll still work fine.
the denser the spacing, the more trains you can fit on the rails. but doing a denser spacing than 100 doesn't give much of a benefit

[mint girder]

ah ok, rn i only have 2 trains running rn and ill maybe add a third soon

[hoary pulsar]

Is worth?

[unique cypress]

Takes more effort, space and more power, but in exchange you get way more ingots from your ores than you would otherwise. Whether that's worth it or not is up to you and changes from situation to situation

[mint girder]

would i use a refinery recipe for a factory that needs 173 iron ingots/min? nah, but if it needs 600/min then yeah

[vapid gorge]

no real difference - you can use alloys instead anywhere. Or base. Lots of ore on the map

[shadow sinew]

I'm planning to use pure recipes for the more expensive stuff like Caterium

[vapid gorge]

tempered gets you the same output with far fewer refineries 😄

[unique cypress]

Yeah, I only use pures if it decreases the number of nodes I need. Which is basically every single factory I build, but still - if I could get all the ingots I needed from a single node without pures, I would

[shadow sinew]

For iron the base i'm making in the northwestern corner i'm using basic iron, because I refuse to do iron refineries

[shadow sinew]

well, one row is already operational

[vapid gorge]

rip

[unique cypress]

Eh, idk why y'all hate refineries so much. With a well-designed BP, it's quick and easy and you get to cut down on resource transport

[vapid gorge]

cause hundreds of refineries sucks dirty ass.

I don't care if they come from blueprints

[shadow sinew]

they do, after getting the bp it literally took me like 2 minutes to do the line

[unique cypress]

Yes, instead of water, which is free, let's use oil, which is not only far from free but also far less common 🤡

[vapid gorge]

sure, but 'tons of refineries suck dirty ass even from blueprints'

[unique cypress]

Skill issue

[shadow sinew]

and really far from the factory I´m making, although tbf I´m shipping in plastic for ai limiters, so it wouldn´t be that hard to also ship coke

[vapid gorge]

dirty ass

[shadow sinew]

is that for refining the entire´s map iron?

[vapid gorge]

not even close. 3000 oil and a bunch of bauxite. All over clocked

absolute ass and sadly refineries you can't really remove from play

copper iron and caterium can have the refinery cost dropped down to nearly nothing and still hae huge outputs

[shadow sinew]

I do agree refineries are the building that feels the worst

there are bigger buildings, but you dont need nearly as many

[hoary pulsar]

Sorry for another question, the best way to produce from refineries? I'm at level 5/6 I've already used pipes and everything, I could have an input of 1200sqm3/min, and I already have the recipe for the residue

[vapid gorge]

you can often trade 3 refineries for like, 1 foundry and still make bank. You have so much ore on the map

[hoary pulsar]

I need to buid a power plant using fuel

[mint girder]

wdym?

[shadow sinew]

the most efficient recipe for fuel is using the dilute packaged fuel recipe

[hoary pulsar]

I have to create a carburetor power center, but from what I understand there are a couple of steps to optimize?

[shadow sinew]

I probably will for other caterium nodes, but on this one I´m even going to have to make fused quickwire to get all of what I need from the area i want my electromagnetic control rod factory on

[mint girder]

what exactly is your question? the fuel recipe? what recipes? can you give more details? how much fuel are you trying to make?

[limpid rain]

Have I done this two-way exit properly? Righthand traffic, The "topmost" leads off and the one closer to camera leads back onto the rails

[unique cypress]

yeah, no it doesn't look right

this is how a T-intersection should look like

[limpid rain]

Ah, then mines is correct. It changes from right traffic to left for the spiral downward off camera, because of terrain on the far side of the hole, so it looks a bit of a mess

tyvm

[unique cypress]

yeah, if you want to swap sides, then yeah, it's correct

[limpid rain]

How would I path-block such a setup?

I just realized thats what the letters are 🤦‍♂️

[lone parrot]

Guys, like in that exemple, OK, 4 smelters, but 3,5 constructors mean what? 3 constructors at 100% and 1 underclocked at 50%?

[limpid rain]

Yes

[lone parrot]

Perfect

Can’t change recipes on satisfactory tools?

[unique cypress]

you can

[unique cypress]

that's one way to do it. but what it means in general is that the sum of uptime * clock speed over all machines must equal 3.5

[mint girder]

this is terrifying 😨 wtf is this

[unique cypress]

Something that I use extensively to do math for me so I don't have to

[mint girder]

what is it exactly? a balancer? compressor?

[unique cypress]

A mixer. Kinda related to the other 2 but not the same thing

[mint girder]

huh

[unique cypress]

Basically a balancer but with all the internal balancers replaced with manifolds. It retains a few of the useful properties, though obviously loses the input and output balance

[shell steeple]

Can someone help me

[glad ibex]

I’m on my second satasfactory run and doing smart playing like i usually do (5 per min) however this time I want my rods to screws to be more balanced, any tips? (Like is there way to split 71.5 rods into 25 rods going one way and 41.5 going the other way)

[lone parrot]

Can you explain that? Kinda lost!

Oh you mean just the sum!

So 3,5 could mean 100% + 100% + 75% + 75%

[lone parrot]

Or 200%+150%!

[unique cypress]

what matters is that you're producing exactly 52.5 rods/min. it does not matter how.

SFTools suggests 3 machines at 100% and 1 at 50%, and that does add up to 3.5 times what one machine makes at 100% speed, which is 52.5. but you could just as well do 4 machines at 87.5%. or 5 at 70%. or whatever

but you can do that not only with clock speed, but also with uptime. a machine at 100% speed running half the time makes the same amount of items as a machine running at 50% speed all of the time

so you multiply uptime and clock speed for every machine, add them up, and it has to equal 3.5 - because then you'll be making 52.5 rods/min

[lone parrot]

Ok I’ll look into it and run some tests ✌️

[brisk smelt]

put another pump

[hoary pulsar]

Ok...I'm going to go crazy, I want to make a plant with an input of 1800/min of crude oil....

Using the diluted fuel recipes

[unique cypress]

that's a lot of oil products

[hoary pulsar]

Yeah

2 pure node + 2 normal

[unique cypress]

I hope you're using all the efficient recipes, not just DF

[hoary pulsar]

I had a problem though, I noticed that after the fourth power plant in line the fuel no longer entered the pipes even with the power plants off

[hoary pulsar]

Yeah

I already searched

I did a test now, with only one reduced power extractor, 240 of fuel per minute for 6 generators at 200%

Ho I need to figure out how to recycle the waste efficiently, but now the production is precise for what is the part of the generators, but if I have a surplus I would like to use it for rubber and plastic

[past igloo]

What do you mean by "round robin behavior" exactly?

[royal valley]

I’m curious if you need to just basic, Addition, Subtraction, Division and Multiplication to get optimized factories

[dusky bronze]

as long as you made it through like 2nd/3rd grade you'll be fine

and a planner can take care of most of the math if you dont want to

[summer flare]

It means that items are processed in a sequence. For a splitter, the input items are passed to each available output in turn (first item will go centre, next is right, next is left, repeat) and results in the input being equally distributed across the outputs.
For a merger, the inputs are processed in turn and an item present will be taken in and passed to the output.

[vapid gorge]

Probably headlift issue

[summer flare]

There's generally a way to do splits like that, but what are you using to get those figures?
According to Satisfactory Modeler, Smart Plating 5/min using the standard recipes needs 71.25 rods, 25 to the manufacturer making the rotors and 46.25 to making screws.

[glad ibex]

thats what i meant mb

[shadow sinew]

really try to get the plastic alt recipe if you can, half everything for a bit of plastic

[lone parrot]

Do we agree that’s the max I can do with a MK2 Miner mining 270 SAM ore/min? 67,5 Reanimated SAM/min?

Can’t mine faster for now

[shadow sinew]

you are capped by the mk3 belt right?

[lone parrot]

Yes

[shadow sinew]

do you need more than 67.5 reanimated SAM at tier 4?

[lone parrot]

It’s to Sink it all

I’d like more

But 270 ore/min is my max here

[shadow sinew]

ah, sure, you can also do the fluctuators combined with steel pipe if you want

[lone parrot]

Tier 4?

[unique cypress]

you can use sloops to get double

[lone parrot]

Sloops?

[unique cypress]

somersloops

[lone parrot]

What’s that?

Alien stuff!

[shadow sinew]

oh, manufacturer is tier 6 sorry, did they move it, I thought it was earlier

[unique cypress]

white mode? ew

[shadow sinew]

i mean, you can make them manually, but prob not worth

[lone parrot]

Yeah, tier 6, already saw that

@unique cypress But what about sloops?

[shadow sinew]

encased beams are tier 4, you can rush that and go up to 480 SAM ore if it´s a pure node

[unique cypress]

you can use them if you find some circuit boards from doggos or crash sites

[shadow sinew]

sorry, turns out you dont get to make them into conveyors until tier 5, weird

[lone parrot]

No it’s the Grassy Fields normal node

10,800 p/min will do for now

[shadow sinew]

if you are feeling adventurous you can put a miner on uranium and dump the ore

[lone parrot]

Could be more p/min?

Uranium is just 35 points

[unique cypress]

9450 p/min for a full mk3 belt

[lone parrot]

Mmmm

Pure node?

[unique cypress]

There are no pure uranium nodes

[lone parrot]

Overclocked at 240 ore/min?

[unique cypress]

But a normal node with a mk2 miner makes 300 when fully overclocked

So you can't even use a pure any more than a normal

[lone parrot]

Yeah but MK3 belts are limited to 270

[unique cypress]

Well yeah that's what I'm saying. You can cap that out with a normal, so a pure isn't any better

[lone parrot]

Uranium nodes are far from my stone arch base!

[summer flare]

The actual numbers are really important if want to load balance.
If the ratios are simplified, 71.25 to 25 and 46.25 is a 57 part split to 20 and 37.
Does that help?

[limpid rain]

Im trying to create a turning blueprint for my train line. How do you prevent the gap that occurs in my foundations? Or can you prevent it?

[vapid gorge]

go onto youtube and look at a blueprint curve tutorial. They are fiddly and personally I wouldn't use them

[limpid rain]

😂 Thats how I got to here was a curve BP tutorial for train tracks

What alternative would you suggest?

[vapid gorge]

use like the DC wan method to curve leading foundations

custom curves tend to work out better anyway imo

[limpid rain]

Wouldnt the same "gap" issue arise once you widen that to 3 foundations?

[vapid gorge]

no, you build on the inner curve

so make a cruve, then build a foundation in. No gaps

that's if you even want foundations under rail the whole way

[limpid rain]

I do, mostly

[vapid gorge]

yeah just build on the inside of the curve then 🙂

[limpid rain]

There will be exceptions like at certain junctions, but Im planning to do a raised line on "concrete" supports

Right, ty 🙏

[prisma hamlet]

Could I get someone to double-check my math?

Can 325/m Turbofuel power 78 Fuel Generators?

I think I did my math, but 78 sounds like a lot and possibly wrong

[vapid gorge]

with clocking most things are possible

!wikisearch fuel powered generator

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=fuel+powered+generator

[vapid gorge]

it says 7.5 fuel pm so 325/7.5

[prisma hamlet]

I figured out my wrong

I used the 4.1666/min from Rocket Fuel not Turbofuel

43 Generators seems like a much more plausible number

[quasi whale]

any reason why it says 0m headlift

[vapid gorge]

gas doesn't need headlift

if you're branching your manifold like that you might get issues with flow though

[quasi whale]

oh i forgot rocketfuel is gas
what issues btw

[vapid gorge]

back flow and 'sloshing'

I can't see your whole layout though so can't really tell what's going on

[quasi whale]

dont know the best way to show you my layou but heres what it kinda looks like

[vapid gorge]

so is this basically just 1 big manifold split all over on two floors?

[quasi whale]

i suppose yeah

[vapid gorge]

how much gas pm are you pushing through it?

[quasi whale]

600 rn
got 3 turbo blend fuel and 1 of em is somerslooped

[vapid gorge]

well I don't see any yellow stuttering lights so if you've got it working ok? don't touch it. If yo usee some stuttering machines feel free to ping me.

[quasi whale]

alright

[vapid gorge]

it's not impossible to set things up like that but it can be very delicate

[quasi whale]

how so?

[vapid gorge]

Like I said, back flow. having branches with splits and mergers like that can be real wonky.
at least with gasses you don't have gravity causing issues. Splitting a liquid set up like that would almost certainly be a problem

[quasi whale]

ic thanks

[nimble lichen]

listen im not denying that i may be stupid

but why am i still having water backing up issues

[vapid gorge]

this is unlike any VIP I've ever seen + you have a buffer. Which does nothing but mess with flow
try replicating it like this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1393661131629006878/1393720682155872338/image.png?ex=691ba188&is=691a5008&hm=f4aa98b28e7dadd381f78213f1277103cb6158249288d002b8ce51b79157053f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[nimble lichen]

pipe from floor is supplying 240/min

[vapid gorge]

and I mean exactly like this

[nimble lichen]

ok will do

[vapid gorge]

but remember - it is an exploit, they can just not work for seemingly random reasons

[vapid gorge]

if this is for bauxite you're better off just keeping the fresh and waste water split like this

blue is fresh, red is waste

[cerulean wolf]

i hate that the water extractor doesn't just show you where it ends, like the pumps do

[vapid gorge]

use walls to measure

but also don't try to max out headlift

[cerulean wolf]

also wish the WE would tell you it's headlift, again like the WP does

how much it's under, specifically

[vapid gorge]

all machines give 10m headlift,
it under the 10m from the point of output

like all outputs of all machines

[nimble lichen]

for that top right one what does the 50% mean

[crimson moat]

headlift display on pumps is not fully reliable (e.g. if mk.2 pump provides +50m of headlift and it never says that it's giving more than +48.3m, you should be good, right? wrong).

headlift indicator on pipe for where to place pumps is not reliable (it's often/always snapping the pump a bit too high to provide reliably headlift)

pipe length/height is, in several circumstances, calculated incorrectly - which causes e.g. an elevation gain of say 45 meters to actually require 55m of headlift - or inversely, you can make elevation gain (free/excess headlift) if you exploit one of these bugs in the other direction, something which is often done unintentionally, such as rotating a junction to the wrong angle for example.

I have a case in my main save where the elevation gain is less than +44m, some pumps report lifting +48.3m, and yet they fail because the required headlift is more than +50m.. so there's a double digit % error in the height and headlift calculations without deliberately triggering bugs, just from playing normally and accidentally running into several now-well-known issues.

best to just play really safe on pumps and avoid where possible. Check every pump. You can easily build two lines next to each other which are literally visually identical, but have one of them report 5m of extra elevation gain and require that much more headlift (for example, building a pipe top-to-bottom vs bottom-to-top changes this, despite looking identical). Assume that mk.1 pump must never read more than +15m, mk.2 never more than +45m etc because the headlift display is a bit wrong in the way that works against you, not for you.

[cerulean wolf]

yes but where does the 10m start?

[vapid gorge]

those are just example rations
so top right you'll notice that the FRESH section has 100% clocking
and the waste has 150% total clocking

that means 40% of your bauxite will be managed by fresh wit hthose recipes, 60% from waste water

[vapid gorge]

assume the bottom - pumps have a 2m grace headlift distance for people at the edge of it, but imo if you're trying to live on the edge of max headlift you deserve all the pain you get

[nimble lichen]

the math for that top one is off

[vapid gorge]

it is correct if you use the two recipes listed.

it has been used , reused, checked and triple checked for the years the diagram has been in use and the creator is pretty meticulous about things

[nimble lichen]

oh yeah my numbers are a little different

[vapid gorge]

this set up also works later with waste acid or water in the nuclear chain, as well as dark matter residue later where you can't use a VIP at all as it's a gas

[limpid rain]

How can I make a consistent bp that curves left and right using this slanted foundation for my rails? Ive done this with my flat foundations, but trying to apply the same translations to the slanted blocks isnt working, and Im struggling to find the right method

[vapid gorge]

there's a few tutorials on youtube about it . It's fiddly though

I'd just do them manually

[limpid rain]

Yeah I followed a youtube guide explaining them, thats how I got the flat ones working well. The slants are throwing me for a loop 😭

[vapid gorge]

did you watch a specific oen about doing it for curves? cause it's different

[limpid rain]

For flat curves, yes

[vapid gorge]

should be basically teh same but use ramps

[limpid rain]

Using ctrl to modify it in smaller increments, and then the h-lock to slowly tap it into place

[vapid gorge]

you'll need a very gentle curve though

or find a totally new video that actually talks about climbing curves

[limpid rain]

I assumed the same, but the result has been lackluster so far. Applying the exact same translations from starting position leads to a jumbled mess

Maybe Ill try with the 1m ramps, see if thats the issue, idk

[vapid gorge]

like this was just using a flat curve then building walls up and attaching the ramps on it

[limpid rain]

That is the alternative Ill fall back to if I cant figure this out, yeah. But since I havent done much of my rail network, if I can figure this out early, I can save a lot of headache with terrain

[vapid gorge]

it is confusing you can't apply the flat curve to it by building walls up. What's the actual issue? too tight a turn making the corners of the ramps poking out?

[limpid rain]

The inside ends up with these massive edges

Im assuming working with straight lines Ill not be able to avoid that?

Whereas with flats they kinda just folded into themselves

[vapid gorge]

show me the other side?

[bright juniper]

anyone know why sf optimizer is telling me to use iron ingot instead of pure iron ingot?

[limpid rain]

Its better on the outside, as expected since thats the axis of rotation

[vapid gorge]

yeah your problem is too steep and too deep

use 1m ramps and 2 wide

it's nto a problem with the method, just it's use

[limpid rain]

Hmm, the two wide bit kinda shafts my design 😂

Ill see what I can do, ty

[vapid gorge]

the only other option is to use gentler curves than basic methods give you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI3ZM4Zzhqs

see what it looks like with 1m ramps though? might not be as awful

[old hearth]

all for ionized fuel

[limpid rain]

The widest part of the 1m gaps looks like the smaller 2nd gap in my original screenshot, maybe slightly smaller. Definitely manageable. Your comment on using smaller adjustments got me playing with the tiny nudges I forgot you can do with ctrl, almost got something in place. Idk if itll link or not though 😂

[vapid gorge]

I don't think you could get a fine enough method just using half nudges :\ check out the vid? and possibly just don't make a bp of it

[limpid rain]

Im watching now, but it seems like he's doing the same thing I did to generate my flat curve, he's just extending it to a full circle using zoop and more rotations?

[vapid gorge]

once you do the base circle, you can create larger circles, which are gentler curves

[limpid rain]

I think this is the smallest I can get it. Ive taken advantage of the painted pillar free angle snapping as per the video you suggested, but there are still limitations on how many snap points there are when nudging

Still, a massive improvement over the original 3 tiers snapped to walls

[nimble lichen]

did i balance these correctly?

[vapid gorge]

fluids do not balance like this

and buffers will mess with your flow

when you build fluid systems make dedicated pipes going from point A to B w/o merges and splits all over the place

[nimble lichen]

i just want all 8 pipes to evenly distribute across all 8 buffers

[vapid gorge]

clock the machines to evenly produce 8 pipes then

what are these buffers for?

[nimble lichen]

i am evenly producing 8 but im not evenly using 8

[vapid gorge]

yeah you're going to have to go into exactly what you're trying to do because if you're wanting to make a functioning smooth system this is not it

[cerulean wolf]

i get it, everything is working as it should be. in game world.

irl, this is driving my "that's not how it works" self up the wall.

[limpid rain]

It doesnt auto-connect, but its probably as close as can be gotten

[vapid gorge]

yeah jsut build the rails seperately. don't include it in the bp

[limpid rain]

Thus far Ive gotten away with it, I had to try 😂

[cerulean wolf]

@vapid gorge well i'm certainly no plumber or physcisist - but if the pipe can only do 300m/min, and you're doing 300m/min: then that pipe should be completely full

[vapid gorge]

just means it's immediately transfered

'pressure' doesn't exist in the game

[limpid rain]

Right but in the real world, if theres empty space in the pipe, you arent at max flow

That caught me off guard too 😂

[vapid gorge]

sure , if pressure was a thing

but fluids are moved by being able to move into empty spaces

[limpid rain]

Great news, by the time you have a partial understanding of Satisfactory pipe physics, you'll qualify to skip most entry courses at a trade school near you 😂

[vapid gorge]

pipes are really simple if you follow the simple rules

you can always make things much more complicated if you want

[cerulean wolf]

i'm saying the devs weren't helping anyone with this..."information aid" system and perhaps shoulda went with something that actually matches their system

[limpid rain]

1. Put it in a caniter
2. Dont look at it, just accept it

[vapid gorge]

transfer rates aren't dependent one the fullness of pipe, thats all

[cerulean wolf]

it'd be like if the game told you you're getting 60/m on a T1 belt, but it shows you gaps in the belt space. you'd be like "da fuk?"

[limpid rain]

Its simple enough to grasp, so long as water is entering the pipe as fast as it is leaving it, that headspace will never fill. But saying youve maxed out an unfull pipe is logically contradicting

[cerulean wolf]

what's even worse, is when you look at pipe segments that go up at a 45d angle, and then down at 45 (with no splits yet).

the part that goes up will show as full, but the part that goes down will be empty. my brain is like "no, this hurts"

[limpid rain]

What can be done with empty plastic fuel canisters besides feeding them back into the system in a loop?

[vapid gorge]

package more things? sink them?

but sending them back is probably best in general. frees up oil production

[cerulean wolf]

i'm totally not going to forget about this later when i upgrade my pipes

[vapid gorge]

you can't output more than 300 from 1 extractor anyway. But you really want to avoid shot pieces of pipe like that

[cerulean wolf]

wish the game would just let me attach the splitter right onto it

[vapid gorge]

that could significantly change how a lot of things work in the game. Like adding pipe junctions directly onto train platforms

[pastel obsidian]

They should have a detective mode for the poor console players to find the one mk1 belt or pipe

[frosty owl]

Or users could be more careful about placing splitters/mergers close to inputs/outputs 😅

[oblique hollow]

Is this pipe angled downward

[oblique hollow]

Thats only true for pipes that are flat or have to fight against gravity

For downward angled pipes, they dont need to reach 100% fullness cause gravity adds to their pressure

and unlike what cobalt said, pressure does exist

Though that is only transfered through full pipes
Partially full pipes rely on gravity generating pressure through their own fullness really

And further:

real life pipes have a pressure cap, not really a flow cap

With SF pipes, its the inverse: we have a flow cap but no pressure cap

Like i get it, if the pipe moves downwards it cant be empty if the fluid moves through the entire pipe - the fluid flows through it after all.

But thats not what the fullness really represents

The fullness represents static pressure / fill height essentially

And flow rate is the actual moving fluid

[oblique hollow]

Texture bug classic

[opaque token]

guys if i have a recipe that takes 240 liquid and outputs 60, would that work for a loop? first 3 output 180 into the 4th which also outputs 60 to bring it up to 240

(outpt on top input on bottom)

(ignore the fact that i connected the first 3 with one pipe which would need to supply 720, thats not the point)

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you're saying exactly but if you're trying to merge waste and fresh liquids like that it's not going to work

[unique cypress]

theoretically? just make sure that you prioritize using the solid output from the blender using byproduct water before consuming the output from the others. or overflow it to a sink so it never stops

oh, and in the case of input starvation, make sure the right one gets starved last too.

so just basically make sure that if any of them stops running for whatever reason, unrelated to the loopback, it's the one handling the byproduct that stops last

[opaque token]

4 blenders spit out liquid byproduct
first 3 are supplied from the outside, the 4th one is supplied by itself and the other 3

[vapid gorge]

ah ok that top pipe is just the by product

I'd be a little wary about merging them like that? I'd build it that way, but then yeah that could work

[opaque token]

good point

[vapid gorge]

if you take your original image I'd put powered pumps here

just to prevent each groups waste to not get in the way of the other

[opaque token]

force it to the input?

[vapid gorge]

But you might not even need that tbh

I'd probably only slap them on if it went wibbly

[opaque token]

i do still need to prioritize feeding the looped one right?

like other resource-wise

[vapid gorge]

this one? no, same style I use for my bauxite

[digital wing]

Does anyone have an answer for this? Im curious

[pastel obsidian]

It should work

What's the current schedule on the train

[digital wing]

Its not my post, i was just asking cuz i was interested

I have trains that load from a and unload at b, but ive not finished the factory so i have no clue if there are throughput issues yet lol

[hoary pulsar]

Thirty minutes to understand why the oil residue did not reach the tank

[vapid gorge]

why are you storing it though?

[pastel obsidian]

With trains just leave some overhead for slow trains, loading and unloading tax and you should be good for 95% of people.

[oblique hollow]

Someone in here said they are convinced the OR setting is behaving as AND so you cant really do this atm or something

[digital wing]

Wdym overhead? in the production itself you mean

[pastel obsidian]

Trains stop loading and unloading during the animation.

[unique cypress]

You never need to make more than you're using

[unique cypress]

Though it's not like there's a practical difference between and and or with a wait timer less than 27 seconds

[pastel obsidian]

If a train for whatever reason is unable to Load or Unload it will wait the timer.

[digital wing]

That doesnt answer my question of what he meant by overhead lol

[pastel obsidian]

Though trains have 2 belt inputs and outputs that are not constant inputs and outputs is what I meant.