math-and-meta

[analog tulip]

@thorny root I know you cared most about blueprint generation, but I think you're going to find this interesting. I added a slider that lets you optimize to minimize waste outputs. Here's a factory that produces computers and only computers:

[fringe seal]

🤔 just realized that the only 3 buildings that produce byproducts are: Blender, Refinery, Encoder
All of them are solid - fluid combo

[crimson moat]

Yes but for example, blender recipies take acid in (liquid, water + sulfur) and output just the water

[fringe seal]

as in only buildings that can produce byproducts, I forgot to mention that...

oh wait, there's converter too?

the only recipe in converter that has two outputs is the dark ion fuel hm

[mystic hollow]

is this too much or too little extractors

[wind spade]

for what?

[mystic hollow]

oil

[wind spade]

how much water do you need?

[mystic hollow]

not sure yet. haven't placed anything else down yet

[wind spade]

so it's too much then. Correct number is 0

wait until you know how much you need and then build that much 😉

(not to mention that the one pipe connecting all of them definitely cannot handle all that water)

[fringe seal]

that's definitely too much for the mk1 pipe

and for mk2 pipe, too
(I assume there is no underclock)

[mystic hollow]

i could underclock them

[wind spade]

you could also build them when you need them, where you need them, in the amount you need them 😛

[fringe seal]

first calculate the processes you are going to use, then build

[mystic hollow]

this is the space i am working with for refiners

forgot how big they are

[wind spade]

I feel I'm gonna repeat myself, but don't build foundations to then try to fit refineries, build refineries and then encase it in a building 😄

[fringe seal]

are you using it for fuel, plastic/rubber, or what

[dawn beacon]

Why lol

[mystic hollow]

probably both

[wind spade]

because you don't know ahead of time how much space you're gonna need?

[dawn beacon]

Oh didn’t know you couldn’t make more foundations. My b

[wind spade]

what? 🤔

[fringe seal]

do you have any alts

alt recipes

[mystic hollow]

uh

i have this

[dawn beacon]

Sarcasm vs condescending lol

[wind spade]

I'd heavily consider calculating the needed resources before building. Especially if you're currently not even sure what you're building

[wind spade]

eh? I'm not sure I follow

[fringe seal]

ah well. that alone is not that useful

[mystic hollow]

if i can figure out the math for it

[wind spade]

there are tools to help you if you don't want to do it by hand

[mystic hollow]

best i can get with the tools i can use is this

i'd just need to figure out how to make it work in practice

also i could've sworn oil made power or i could be wrong

[mint coral]

bottom right hand corner is fuel biproduct

put it in a fuel generator to make power ^_^

[mystic hollow]

ah ok

i am gonna need so many engines for this

[mint coral]

motors i think

[mystic hollow]

it's engines for the both the extractors and refiners

[mint coral]

keep in mind mark 1 pipes can only have 300 fluid ^_^ its a mistake i used to make

[mystic hollow]

so maybe i should use like 2 extractors until i get mk2?

[mystic hollow]

oh mb

how did it forget that it's motor

[mint coral]

ya, use whatever you need to to balance things. the math is part of the fun ^^

[mystic hollow]

and i am bad at math

[mint coral]

engines are a thing and are coming soon for you ^^

youll need motors for that too. i always make the mistake of makiong to little motors

[mystic hollow]

i have a good bit making

it's just im gonna have to redo the first part of the system because the beams and going in quick enough

[solid loom]

I know this is probably the wrong channel for this but its very quick what is this symbol? efficiency?

[dusky bronze]

yes

[solid loom]

thank you

[deft lichen]

Efficiency means nothing if you don't explain how you measure it.
It's uptime, but it's not really accurate

[unique cypress]

I'm reasonably sure it should be as accurate as the throughput monitor. Which is perfectly accurate within its averaging window.

I've seen large fluctuations on miners and extractors because the 5s downtime upon idle is a lot of cycles. But on any machine with at least a few second long cycle, it should be pretty decent. Unless its uptime actually fluctuates over time

[loud torrent]

is your name US-beefalo or USB-eefalo

[mint coral]

U-S- Beefalo for pernoctation but it is a combination of USB and Beefalo

My mates and I all have beefalo related names
Beefalo au Jus, Bumble Beefalo, Big Beefalo woamn and so on

[loud torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/chat-malicieux-chat-malice-gif-3014684048861748660

[unique cypress]

<@&387163995947270144>

Thanks

[peak jacinth]

Does anyone have a good tool for making flowcharts?

[opal temple]

Satisfactory modeler on steam

[unique cypress]

http://satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[peak jacinth]

Damn

I didn't know there was dedicated stuff for this

[unique cypress]

Oh there's like a dozen different ones

[verbal oar]

What's the meta turbofuel recipe line

[unique cypress]

any of them or none of them depending on what you want exactly

[verbal oar]

Power supply to last me until I set up better cubes and aluminum that'll let me make nuclear plants

basically just best Crude : Turbofuel ratio

pre-blender

[unique cypress]

heavy oil residue to diluted packaged fuel to default turbofuel

[wind spade]

there's not really any "meta" for any of the products in the game. Depends a lot on personal preferences of given people.

[unique cypress]

or just skip TF entirely and just burn the fuel

[wind spade]

diluted fuel can last till nuclear pretty easily

[unique cypress]

20 GW from 600 oil and some water is pretty decent too

[wind spade]

the TF/RF branch basically just converts other resources to power

[verbal oar]

Thank you for the info and the things to deliberate upon

[opal temple]

Planning out my first couple factories. Whats everyones thoughts. For the RIP factory i might just throw it all down for spare wire off that copper node since it only needs 33 copper ore/min

Restarted in the rocky desert last night, so just trying to plan out accordingly now that i've got my head back into the game

[wind spade]

some numbers seem too high. Especially screws which aren't really used anywhere apart from a few unlocks

[opal temple]

Ah okay, what would you recommend? At least for the ones you think are a bit high

Its more so im trying to ustilise the nodes at my current tier with mk2 belts i guess

[wind spade]

well it's up to you obviously how much you build. But what do you need 160 screws for?

[wind spade]

you can underclock the node 🙂

[opal temple]

True enough i guess

[opal temple]

Honestly no clue, was just trying to balance the numbers a bit i guess

10 RIP/MF per min seems decent based off what ive read. Unless im totally over estimating it

[wind spade]

build what you need now, don't try to guess the future 🙂

[opal temple]

Fair

Got upto steel production last run, so sorta just wanting to set things up better this run

[echo sky]

Good luck

[opal temple]

Steel pipe i'll be doing via iron pipe alt recipe. No ifs or buts about that

Just seems way to useful

[wind spade]

and very expensive 🙂

[opal temple]

Is it actually?

[wind spade]

it's A LOT of iron

[opal temple]

True

[wind spade]

however it's your choice really, like with every alt recipe

[opal temple]

Does SF Tools tell you which is better if you have the alt enabled?

Just for comparison sakes

Or any of the tools really i guess

[wind spade]

not really, because it can't know what do you mean by "better"

there's not really a "better" or "worse" recipe for anything, it's always a tradeoff

[opal temple]

Gotcha

[deft lichen]

Tools picks the most resource-efficient option (considering weighted resource cost), which however might not be the most optimal overall

sometimes you want to optimize the building count or use resources available in one location

[opal temple]

I do modify the resources to be what I’ve got and want it to use. ie the 240 iron ore/min and such

[deft lichen]

yeah, you can make it show a plan for anything if you constrain it (disable unwanted recipes/resources)

for the building count, it's the fastest to open the overview tab instead of the chart, toggle recipes and see how the building list changes

[opal temple]

Gotcha gotcha

Just gotta mess around with it i guess

Cause for example. I do have the iron wire recipe enabled. But it chose to do the base wire recipe

Wait, nevermind. It didnt have enough iron to do it all via iron wire

[unique cypress]

And that's exactly why I don't set resource limits. Even if I do have a limit in mind, I play around with the recipes until I'm below

Similarly with recipes. I enable all of them at the start, then disable all the ones it tries to use and I cannot get at my current tier and see what it comes up with. It might be much better than what it would've produced if I only enabled the recipes I actually have

And if it turns out one of the recipes it used and I don't have makes a big difference, I go and get it. If I didn't enable it because I don't have it, I wouldn't know how good it is

[opal temple]

Fair enough

[vapid gorge]

I’m a ‘iron ore is a trash resource, use it everywhere’ person

Iron pipes is hideously expensive to me

Coal is very common and doesn’t have much use outside steel

[opal temple]

Yea, sort it and was like ohh. This could be nice

[vapid gorge]

It can be convenient, especially early on I guess? But if you use like solid steel recipe, iron pipes uses almost 5x the iron instead of a touch of coal

[opal temple]

Actually, do people make a full phase 1 SE parts factory and then a new phase 2? Or do they just hand feed the assemblers to make parts

[vapid gorge]

Both. Depends on person

I’m a hand feeder / smart splitter overflow guy

[opal temple]

Fair, Honestly wonder if its worth slopping those assemblers off the bat if i can

[vapid gorge]

Ehhh, while they are being made you have tons of exploring and building and planning to do.

Slooping is a gimmick

[opal temple]

Even though its 2x the output for the same input? If i understand it correctly

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it’s a duping mechanic. Personally I think it’s pretty silly.

Most of the new stuff from 1.0 is kinda a soft creative mode?

Duping
Essentially free build creative mode for items you’ve automated (depots)
Ore conversion

[opal temple]

Ore conversion?

[vapid gorge]

You get it later. Can convert one raw resource into a different one

[opal temple]

Tbh, might just hand feed. Can use the nodes for more manufacturing of other stuff

Ah, quantum encoder or whatever its called?

[vapid gorge]

Smart splitter overflow also works. Lets you stockpile a ton for the next phase

[opal temple]

True true, need to get through the mam tree a bit

[vapid gorge]

Mam is your best friend

Even a regular splitter will also do the job, just won’t prioritize

[opal temple]

Lots and lots to think of and do, that is for sure

[vapid gorge]

Many ways to do a thing 🙂

[opal temple]

That there is

[dawn beacon]

Huh when

[vapid gorge]

Tier 9 maybe?
It’s a real gimmick though and generally more inconvenient than just importing more of what you need

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it'd be awfully niche for most players

Useful when you want to go whole hog on "absolute max <product>" but otherwise it's a bit hard to justify

[knotty hornet]

If you have shitloads of power, you get nearly 10x sulfur from what you put in by slooping the convertor loop.

There are a few other things too, again if you care to spare the sloops

[peak jacinth]

Okay, can someone help me figure out the production line for Screws because this is causing me no end of trouble

I'm running no alt recipes and Mk. 1 Miner

[mint coral]

the frist thing i hunt for is the cast screw recipe for this reason lol

but ill be more helpful is how many screw do you need?

[unique cypress]

doesn't really help much other than removing a few constructors

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production should help

[peak jacinth]

60/m

[mint coral]

use the calculator above. it helps so much

[proper crane]

i made this abomination of a 1:5 splitter, is there an easier way to do it though lmfao

[unique cypress]

it's ususally easier to not do it at all

exact splitting is basically never necessary

[proper crane]

like cause of overflow right

one belt earlier on will clog

[unique cypress]

and here's a correct one in case you still want one

[proper crane]

yeah, i came up with my own algorithm to make them in shapez a while ago lmao

now i need to figure out merging 5:2 smh

[unique cypress]

should be correct (unless I messed up one of the connections lol)

[crimson moat]

turn ore to ingots to rods to screws

if you don't have enough, do it again

0.5 smelters > 1 rod constructor > 2 screw constructors (round up) gives adequate throughput at every stage.

[raven pasture]

Which would you say is more worth out of these two plans
I know i can use Pure Iron Ingot recipe but I don't think it's worth in these scenarios if I am limited by coal or limestone anyway

[crimson moat]

Solid Steel is already solid.

Good opportunity to do double-duty like setting up dedicated concrete production at the same time, from the same limestone node/water, and to utilise limestone that would go unused.

overall though you are making like 10x more stuff than you probably need, that's driving most of the cost/complexity/time - not the recipe choice

[opaque relic]

Whats the website

[unique cypress]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

Steam

Satisfactory Modeler

Model your Satisfactory builds. Set up your machines however you like, adding optional limits to the number of any of those machines and the tool will calculate how the parts will flow and how many of each machine type are getting used.

This does advanced calculations that no other Satisfactory planning tool can do, including figuring out how s…

▶ Play video

[opaque relic]

Thanks pioneer

[vapid gorge]

only the machine one when it's full and you still get 100% efficiecy

[gleaming laurel]

Is it possible to balance liquids this way? Various inputs (>600m3/min) into same average outputs?

[wind spade]

not really. Just use what you have in the pipe, fluids work best when simple

[vapid gorge]

and or put the right amounts in the pipes in the first place

connecting up tons of pipe systems together like that is a recipe for disaster

[gleaming laurel]

But I would want the pipes to be full right?

Why move 240m3/min with dozen of pipes if I can fill up a couple to 600m3/min and just leave one that's not full?

[vapid gorge]

because having a bunch of merged systems can cripple your flow

if you have a few low outputs combine them at source and move them then

[unique cypress]

Have done that before. Works just fine, especially with gasses. But you might need more junctions and more connections depending how uneven the input pipes are

[vapid gorge]

'works just fine' ? it's not a reliable solution, much like VIPs.

[gleaming laurel]

if you have a few low outputs combine them at source and move them then.
This is what I did here. I have 16 refineries (one underclocked) producing 3672 m3/min alumina solution combined. I just need 7 pipes to move that amount.

[vapid gorge]

that looks not at all close to the source and you're remerging eveyrthing again

[unique cypress]

Why are you moving alunina solution????

[vapid gorge]

how much total do you have moving?

[unique cypress]

Just turn it into ingots and move those

Why are you torturing yourself like this lmao

[gleaming laurel]

I din't mean 'Move' as to a remote location. I want to process this into ingots now. The rafineries are below.

I just didn't want to run 20 pipes for each rafinery

[vapid gorge]

how much solution are you moving?

[gleaming laurel]

3672/min

[vapid gorge]

no reason to merge all of them then?

as have been mentioned

1. either process each individual pipe with whatever contents you chose to put in there

or

2. clock your machines to produce equal amounts

you absolutely do no want to interconnect all your bauxit production lines

you are already making a nightmare of it by not processing the solution directly after it's made

pipes are not belts. You can't treat them like they are and expect it to work

[unique cypress]

I process my aluminium in small, separated setups that only share the bauxite supply and ingot output. Each setup is one pipe with water and one with alumina. Doing all processing in one connected setup sounds like a nightmare

[gleaming laurel]

But if I were to separate the production into 1/1 pipe setups like you said, the ratios don't add up then. Im using Sloppy alumina (output 240/min) and electrode scrap (180 input). For one pipe I would need 2 refineries that produce the solution (480/min) this would be enough for 2.(6) refineries producing scrap. This sounds like more of a nightmare

[gleaming laurel]

I ment to respond to this*

[agile bobcat]

@lapis rock

they arent going through this thing for no reason

its all snapped together

[lapis rock]

that belt coming out of it kinda out and up a bit looks super sketch. but if it snaps it should work but maybe just build one out straight to see

and obv make sure it's not a smart splitter with the wrong types set

(I don't know from the pic maybe it's not)

[agile bobcat]

it isnt

[lapis rock]

just build a nice straight belt off it to nowhere and see what happens

[gleaming laurel]

make sure the elevators snapped to output and not some random grid line. sometimes even when they snap they dont connect

[vapid gorge]

ratios addd up perfectly, clock, your machines as needed

[agile bobcat]

figured it out

was the floor hole

[unique cypress]

I do 3:4 setups. 3 sloppy alumina, 4 electrode scrap. No clue how much alumina is actually in each one, because I place 7 junctions on one pipe and alternate between connecting one to scrap, 1 to alumina, 1 to scrap, and so on. So it's entirely possible the total alumina is more than 600, but no pipe segments can exceed that anyway. It's the water that's more important, as that's exactly 600

[vapid gorge]

for example, a self contained 780 bauxite system

you are free to keep doing what you are doing
is it technically impossible? no

will it be a night mare to try to make work? almost certainly yes

you've been told about the issues you'll face
you've been given a clear diagram example how to accomplish the thing you said can't be done because of ratios.

I'm not your mum. You are free to do as you please.

[gleaming laurel]

Ok. This looks good, thanks. I'll finish my nightmare since it's almost done anyway. I'll rebuild from scratch if it doesn't work.

[vapid gorge]

you really really don't want to interconnect multiple bauxite nodes together.

I don't even want to ask how you're managing hte waste

in the example given it's sloppy + electrode , the top section of the image here is the clocking used

blue is fresh, red is waste

[gleaming laurel]

🥲

Wish me luck then

[vapid gorge]

I mean, they can be side by side getting there, that's fine
just don't link up the lines once you start processing each belt

got a 600 line of bauxite? process that line entirely into scrap on it's own

For example

[vapid gorge]

@heady sun like this

blue is fresh red is waste

most reliable and, honestly, simplest way to manage waste that gets returned.

and you can use it in the nuclear and dark matter chains later

[heady sun]

doesnt this ratio only work with default alumina solution tho?

[vapid gorge]

any recipe ratio
clocking is your friend

just figure out what % of the bauxite is processed with fresh water, decide on the clocking

then make a group that is processed only with waste

for example this was sloppy+electrode, used the top clocking

you would need different numbers for base recipe but it's essentially the same thing

[daring thunder]

#screenshots message

Extrators are full, pipes are empty. I tried rebuilding the pipes, I disconnected the segment of pipes from the network

water just wont leave extractors anyone have any ideas

[dusky bronze]

reconnecting the pipe?

[daring thunder]

Yea

ive done it a few times

i just rebuilt all the pipes

wtf

Lol what the fuck.

the power was disconnected, but it didnt say unpowered

[dusky bronze]

that would do it

[gleaming laurel]

The nightmare works

[heady sun]

couldnt i just limit the amount of water that goes into the system once the pipes are ful

i cant think enough to figure out a bunch of ratios rn

[vapid gorge]

direct feeding is possible, but not reliable. Up to you

[heady sun]

not reliable?

[vapid gorge]

how much bauxite are you processing and what recipes?

[vapid gorge]

back flow and clogging is really easy. Look at it wrong and it could fall over

[heady sun]

600 bauxite/min, sloppy -> default

[vapid gorge]

ok so that's the top right ratio

looks like you need 40% on fresh water, 60% on waste

so figure out the total water you need, pump 40% of it from extractors

then make a however many refineries to use the 60% waste water

[vapid gorge]

knock on wood it keeps working

[heady sun]

do these arrows matter? like do i need to put valves there to ensure it goes that direction

[vapid gorge]

nope

though personally I'll try to clock the scrap refineries to be 1:1 with the solution refineries too if it's not inconvenient.

like I did here

keeping fluids as simple and direct as possible is your best bet for least aggrevation

this is for a different recipe combo so you won't be able to use it exactly

[vapid gorge]

looking at your ratio though it seems like it'd be really simple to do 1:1

it's 250% clocking solution for 250% clocking on scrap. Very neat and tidy

[heady sun]

do i even need to connect here and here

[vapid gorge]

not if you clock them to feed directly into the machine in front like I did 🙂

[heady sun]

so like this basically?

[vapid gorge]

direct feeding fluids basically avoids extra piping and possible complications

[vapid gorge]

if that amoutn of clocking uses all 600 bauxite? sure

I don't know how much the example ratio processes

[heady sun]

its 500, so close enough

[vapid gorge]

you'll need to increase the total processing then

an extra 20%

120% fresh and a total of 180% on the waste

[heady sun]

nah i dont need exactly 600 i was just doing it bc that was 3 default sloppy refineries

how do i get water into the 2 wastewater refineries initially? will they just fill up over time once the freshwater refinery kicks in?

[vapid gorge]

this would process all 600

[vapid gorge]

it'll slowly spin up to 100% yes

[loud ivy]

should I set the under clock to 92 or the production rate to 27.5? In game if I set production rate the clock speed is 91.6667%

[deft summit]

I'd set production rate to the desired number

[vapid gorge]

27.5
Scim doesn't... do math great sometimes

[heady sun]

tysm for the help its all online and working properly 🙏

[vapid gorge]

no sweat 🙂 Remember this trick when you do nuclear stuff and dark matter residue

[unique cypress]

Or you could also do neither and if it produces 30 and you pull 27.5 from it, it'll fill up and eventually start idling every now and then to produce 27.5

And I suggest you use https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production instead of SCIM's production planner. They have a good interactive map, but their calculator is... bad

[mystic hollow]

ik this is very ugly and clustered and i'll eventually figure out a way to make it better but making motors are quite slow rn

Kinda regret building up here since i don't got a lot of space to work with without building upwards

[deft lichen]

you just need pillars around the edges to support the structure

although this is more #design-and-architecture content

[steel knot]

What’s the most effective way without belts to send 2 computers per minute from a factory producing 25? Maybe a belt splitter to a dedicated platform?

[unique cypress]

drone?

[steel knot]

Eventually yeah

Still on phase 2

I only used a few drone routes last playthrough. This time I’ll use more when I get there

I can probably just remove the buffer at the destination and let the train “manifold” while I prep the other receiving areas

[loud ivy]

I like how SCIM diagrams the planner, can this do that?

[steel knot]

Yeah it’s easy to follow

Give it a whirl with a quick reinforced plate calculation

[wind spade]

check it out 🙂

[vapid gorge]

clock a machine to make 2pm, have it feed whatever you need at that rate

[sonic jasper]

what are all the ways to transport items? like you have trains, trucks, drones, conveyers etc

[loud ivy]

What I mean is the realistic view that includes belts, mergers, splitters. I briefly checked it out before I had to go to work today and didn't see something like that. However the math appears to be on point

[unique cypress]

afaik there isn't a single calculator that does this correctly. most don't bother and SCIM often does it incorrectly

if you really want to plan out every single splitter for whatever reason, use Modeler. but you'll have to add them yourself

[loud ivy]

modeler?

[unique cypress]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

[vapid gorge]

yup and belt

[vapid gorge]

learning the basics of belting and managing logistics means you don't need to spend 10x as much time trying to plan splitters in modeler >.>

[unique cypress]

but also, you generally don't want a calculator to plan splitters for you, nor do you want to plan them manually. it all can be done on the fly in the game

[sonic jasper]

wym belt?

[wind spade]

belt is a way to transport items (like you asked)

[sonic jasper]

just a conveyor belt? or is it something different

[wind spade]

yeah

[sonic jasper]

word

[loud ivy]

how does this work.. is it really 120 in, 30 out 30 out and 60 out.. or is it 40 out in each direction and it eventually fills two smelters and becomes 30/30/60?

[knotty hornet]

The second one

[wind spade]

also, as said above, I wouldn't recommend planning specific splitters

[loud ivy]

I'm confused, why not plan for them if we know we will need them

[knotty hornet]

Because planning individual splitters is gonna be a nightmare for larger builds. 98 times out of 100, you can just make manifolds to feed groups of machines and not need to plan them out specifically

[thorny root]

I am considering laying out the floors of the new mega factory save on 50m increments, with a group of 2m foundation centered on 500, 550, 600, etc, and aligned to the center of the map (approximated to the best of my ability), leaving a 48m high unobstructed area at 501-549, 551-599, etc.

This puts the final foundation at 2000, and when standing on a 1m foundation platform at 1997, you are exactly at the highest penalty-free z level in the game, with the bottom of the uppermost foundation keeping you mere centimeters away from a slow and annoying death.

If I ever need more than 50m, I will just skip an entire floor and take up two.

I'm tempted to route power like this.

[analog tulip]

Hello. I'd like to learn about the state of the art regarding blueprint layout. Do you know an algorithm that's worked well? Are you or someone you know good at designing blueprints? I'd like to hear from you.

[dusky bronze]

you sort of just screw around with it until you find something that works

[analog tulip]

To clarify, I'm investigating this to make a computer program that produces blueprints.

[dusky bronze]

ahh

[fair mica]

Factoriolab is the best tool out there unless you are using custom LP engine. As for generating in-game thing, there's not really an algorithmic problem, rather an implementation problem.

[dusky bronze]

yeah i have no idea about that but if someone can make it work that would be cool i think

[analog tulip]

I've recently implemented an optimizer https://coder0xff.github.io/optifactory/. I'm looking specifically for 3-dimensional placement and routing so I can add .sbp export.

The bot said my link is not allowed, again. Is my message still displaying anyway, like it was last time?

[fair mica]

SCIM has tooling to work with saves, but iirc its not open-source.

Otherwise it's like breadth- first walking through graph and placing layers in 2d arrays with respect to belt speed limitation. Maybe you can ask SCIM author for sbp reference.

Or you are thinking of packing things into blueprint space limits?

[analog tulip]

There's https://github.com/etothepii4/satisfactory-file-parser/tree/main for reading and writing .sbp files. I'm looking specifically for 3-dimensional placement and routing, in the confines of a blueprint.

[thorny root]

It's a packing problem. But there are limits to what looks good. For starters, no clipping is generally the minimum criteria for that, as well as things aligned to each other to create clean flow. If you want a community approved layout, your metrics will vary but they're mostly right about what looks good.

Another thing you probably want to avoid is 'extra' parts, especially of the decorative variety. If there's any detailing to be done, let the detailers do it.

I think you want some metrics as standard. Machine spacings are fairly straight forward, but where the complications arise are the logistics. Allowing room for that but also making sure that it ends up looking clean... basically essential.

Like... your blueprints should probably not mix machine types, or if they do, to a very limited degree. Smelters + constructors is probably okay since they're all small and nothing argues much. I would not also add assemblers to that. That would be a separate print. Refineries would be their own print, including their logistics, but with no other machines.

Pick a block size and try to populate it to its maximum clean density. 48x48x48 is a good place to start, since that's the blueprint size most people will end up using towards late game.

When you understand what you can do with smaller limitations, that eases the path forward for large scale implementation.

My approach to blueprints is modularity. Regardless of what's in the print, I try to make sure the materials come in from the same direction, leave the same direction, and the connections line up in ways that make sense for power, belts, intputs, outputs, etc. And in order to pull that off, I embraced logi layers. An entire floor dedicated to clean routing of pipes and belts and power.

This is basically a multi layer printed circuit board, with every 2 meters being a layer with traces (belts or pipes). Components on top and bottom of that.

Traces (belts and pipes) in this layer (group) are to use the X and Y to find their Z. That's all. The entire X and Y layer here is dedicated to them getting on Z target.

(and in the end, you of course need all 3 to match, x, y, and z)

[analog tulip]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the axes. Is Z the vertical axis? This is great information, btw. I hadn't considered a routing layer between each machine layer. Thanks.

[thorny root]

Z is vertical yes.

[thorny root]

routing or logi layers are KEY to clean builds.

[analog tulip]

"Get on zee target" lol

[thorny root]

Learn and embrace or be miserable.

You need 3 meters of empty space between two foundations to put a splitter / merger. If you need to make a logi layer for assemblers, that space is 5 meters, for two stacked. If you're making one for manufacturers that space is 9 meters. If you want to include the output in the logi layer as well, that space is now 11 meters between two foundations.

.
Factory
Foundation
Logi
Logi
Logi
Foundation

PERIODICALLY you may also want to make X / Y buses. For long distance moving of goods along a plane before going up or down.

They are not a 'factorio' type bus

Think of them more like interstate highways.

Populate them however it makes sense. Trains, belts, or even trucks if you're daring.

[fair mica]

If were to implement there are 2 steps: 1) pack parts of production graph so that connections between them are minimal
2) pack parts into these boxes.

For 2) of course you can look up papers on optimal packing, but, it's NP complete and if you're not doing this a part of development of new parametric non NP algo, it not worth it, just pick some way of packing. The key is to use conveyour lifts, so you can use one plane for wiring. Game doesn't care how belts clip, but they care how mergers clip, so they would require separate layer. Also, belts are tend to connect better when input and output are facing same direction.
So, from top, to down, take biggest parts, pad 4m for conveyour belts. You may also look at creating pre- computed layers for fixed sizes.

[thorny root]

If you base your blueprint block size on 48, you can split it into 2 24s, (refinery) 3 16's (assembler), or 4 12s (I don't go less than 12 tbh)

But keep in mind also that visually the best view is from the top... And you can't see through machines.

Up to you how thick you want to make it.

[analog tulip]

Are the limitations on conveyer splines published anywhere? Max rise over run? Min turn radius?

[thorny root]

Don't cross Z with belts. use lifts. For turns, you can make a clean 90 in 3m, 3m

Belts are 2m, and coords are centered on it.

[analog tulip]

I'll include a checkbox to enable/disable foundations. What should the default setting be? Yes foundations, or no foundations?

[thorny root]

I'd say do not include them.

[analog tulip]

Sorry if you already said, what's the vertical clearance for a conveyer (talking aesthetics not hard rules)

[thorny root]

conveyors sit at roughly .5m from the floor and require 2m above that to not clip.

the layer size for a 1 belt logi layer is 3m, and that's so the splitter doesn't clip

for a 2 belt, it's 5m tall.

that is, if they overlap. It's likely they do.

To make a formula out of it: LogiLayerInMeters = 1 + (NumBelts * 2) +floor+ceiling

When you place a conveyor in game, it's always attached to something, and that attach origin is going to give you the coordinates that the engine uses. For a builder, to get the cleanest look without looking under the hood, we just build on grid on a foundation that is also on grid, and we use the snaps.

This results in the cleanest and most translateable / reproducable look.

What you want is to find the numbers in the engine that are used to reproduce that look, rather than forcing it at +0.5m because someone said so.

What you're going to end up with before long is an offset table that has nothing to do with memory addresses.

[fair mica]

Almost anything that shares direction of start and end connects with rare exclusions.

[thorny root]

@analog tulipYou may look at building (yourself, very manually) a lot of working machine groups to get a sense for both what looks good locally and at larger scale reads, and as well when you're done, building lots of SMALL blueprints that are basically the parts that your blueprint printer uses.

Like I said, turning large complicated problems into smaller bite sized ones

And honestly, logistics are the hardest consideration. Machines laid end to end are easy. Connecting those to make anything useful while keeping it neat is where the actual challenges and fun start.

So figure out how to perfect that (I can help) by overthinking it to its fundamentals, turning those into conceptual building blocks, and using those... make your in game building blocks.

The most basic and critical of these is dedicated logi pathways.

When you can standardize those, blueprint wide, factory wide, map wide... you're cooking.

Rough example... and metrics that I use... World laid out on grid using 48, 50, 96, and 100 meter standard intervals. 48 height for factory floor levels, 50 meter center to center (vertical) with 2 meter foundation centered on the landmark number (250, 500, etc), 96m X Y factory block size (4 mk3 blueprints in a square), 100m center to center, with a full 8m wide foundation border as a logistics pathway to service that 'block', free of all factory components, and dedicated solely to logistics. Above and / or below each factory level, I allow a full vertical block for logistics and observation. This gives me plenty of room to get a good read on things and take nice screenshots.

If you're even halfway clever you can tile that shit to infinity and never have issues.

[sonic jasper]

I am making sulfiric acid (water and sulfur intake) ive got this conveyor load balancer going into 5 refineries. How can I make a load balancer of an uneven number (5 refineries) with pipes?

[thorny root]

You split 6 ways (3 twice) and run ONE output to a merger which recycles back into the feed loop.

[oblique hollow]

you dont do it for pipes. it balances itself

[thorny root]

He asked for a load balancer.

[sonic jasper]

for liquid

[thorny root]

... oh. Yeah what he said. It balances itself.

[oblique hollow]

pipe load balancer is not really well doable.

[sonic jasper]

I figured, thats what ive been doing on my other systems. just was curious if there was a way yk

[oblique hollow]

given that pipes are bidirectional and sensitive to pressure changes, if you tried to manually do one you would likely just introduce problems

[thorny root]

If there were a way to do this, it would basically be gravity fed sections of equal length pipe all sourced from a pipe manifold that is also gravity fed, and what you would end up with is just a bigger machine buffer.

Yes, it would be backflow proof, but you can take this gravity feeding concept and apply it to a smaller scale that avoids most common liquid issues.

Like having your liquid input manifold above the machine inputs by a few meters, such that there's no way for the input manifold to backflow until it full fills each buffer... But... Again... I'd just like to point out that all this is is a bigger input buffer.

Liquids are not pushed into machines. Machines ACTIVELY SLURP things at their input interface, such that they can create a cavity of air in the pipe that causes the liquid behind it to start surging forward, sloshing, and you basically have to wait this out on most liquid setups, unless your manifold feeds liquid down into machines.

I believe the root cause of this is not just liquid mechanics, but actually that the input buffers of liquid machines are allowed to fill at pipe throughput rate rather than at machine usage rate.

[frosty owl]

On this topic, you might find this interesting
#math-and-meta message

[thorny root]

Aye, that is neat, and I thought from a mechanical standpoint, the concept of resonance and cancellation would be intuitive to apply so symmetry would be very desirable for that reason.

[frosty owl]

I just found that simmetry seemed to work well and was pleasantly surprised by how well it performs in testing. I didn't consider resonance or other technical details 😅
But the result does look quite consistent in its "balancing" (eg: machines all turning on at the exact same moment)

[thorny root]

The next thing you know, the nerds will be wave form tuning their pipes so they can make a rainbow vibing synthesizer out of pipe flowindicators.

It's dangerous to know things.

[frosty owl]

That is an interesting possibility

[thorny root]

Bro, someone made an LLM in minecraft. you don't get to make a sandbox and then start making rules later. Gamers do what gamers do.

I do wish we had more logic tools.

I know they're not needed but they'd be incredibly fun.

Like.. Conditional power toggling beyond 'priority' would be a good starting point.

Perhaps even using the new belt scanner as a logical input.

... actually now that you mention it, some boolean logic on that belt scanner and the ability to make that toggle power based on a simple logic evaluation would be ALL WE NEED TBH.

DEVS. Hey devs. I just made you a $30 expansion pack for $30 worth of effort, good for 3000 hours of gameplay.

[thorny root]

6 months later you can release another expansion that basically just adds the ability to re-purpose the space elevator after reaching end game for meeting a monthly throughput quota which ada arbitrarily makes up from a list of 4 items from all tech levels, scaled to a number that is balanced against your power grid load. Lore nerds speculate over why. Factory enjoyers are just glad to have a reason to get creative again.

6 months after that you announce another expansion in more or less the same way you tease everything, except the only tease we get is a picture of an entire planet, just on fire. Very cartoony. So bad you can't even tell what planet it is. And a date, 6 months in the future. An unannounced content drop a week later adding about three dozen new blueprints for consumer type commodities, all requiring the manufacturer or higher and multiple steps and sometimes each other, with the basic intention of adding more content and goals, while also solidifying the need for a full ficsonium nuclear chain due to increased power demand. Tune this to eat power and poop sink points, at basically 10x of both compared to ballistic warp drives and AI servers. Make it the new performance metric people standardize.

[peak jacinth]

Yeah, this seems about right.

[thorny root]

Then drop simulated residents. No people. Also not necessarily human. Btw no one goes outside anyway. They all stay in their pods, and all you really see is utility flux, lights turn on and off, and strange consumer goods demand trends.

But you have a new performance metric in meeting their demands, achieving a happy population, etc.

Ignore things like housing fires, traffic beyond factory logistics. It isn't sim city, but it gives a factory more purpose, a game a new mechanic, and a host of new performance metrics... all rather low investment.

Anyway, that's my pitch.

Oh, and you could look into two agricultural type factories as a part of this that are basically livestock and hydroponics, but industrialized. High yield, high cycle time, moderate energy demand.

[crimson moat]

It seems like the biggest performance killer is the amount of items moved on belts within the LOD distance where they are displayed fully

which is about a 1 kilometer sphere of the pioneer on max settings, and more like 200m on minimum.

It hurts much more than the buildings themselves do

from quick math, more CPU time is spent on updating the belt graphics in my world than on everything else combined

while building i'm playing with a much lower LOD distance, so i can't see what's on belts over 300m away, but i still have the full 1200/min graphic preserved to be able to see every single item / gap. Works a lot better. Instead of dropping immediately to 20fps and then stabilising at 80 after i turn to put my 50x1200 belts in view, it stays at ~150+ unless i go and stand closer to those belts

Since the LOD area is spherical, if you are standing in a uniformly built borg sphere, a 5x longer LOD distance would put 125x more belt items in view. On a 2d plane, 25x more.

anything over ~200m away (min settings) or ~1km away (max) isn't hurting performance very much.

It's not even about the belts flowing either, if i sink them a kilometer away there's very little FPS difference between belts flowing and belts stopped.

[elfin jewel]

I need help with something and I do not know if this channel is where I'm supposed to find it. I need to load balance 1200. Items into 60.
I was curious if anyone knew what the exact setup would look like

[thorny root]

Since you need 60 items you can just use mk1 belts on the downstream end of all your splitters... and they won't need balanced. They're self limiting to exactly your throughput need.

Just make sure each splitter outputting 60 is getting at least 180 to it.

[elfin jewel]

The issue i'm running intoIs I have twelve hundred total coming in?And I need to exactly split that twelve hundred into sixty per machine

[thorny root]

Okay. So you take belts that are limited to 60 and you split those 3 times as well, for 20 each.

[unique cypress]

then you can just run a simple manifold with mk1 belts on the side

unless you don't have a mk6 belt unlocked yet

[crimson moat]

or use smart splitter set to feed output "any", passthrough "overflow"

[thorny root]

1200 (480, 480, remainder 240) -> 480 / 2 -> 240 / 4 -> 60 / 3-> 20

[elfin jewel]

I figured it out in a little bit different way.I try to manifold system with all level.Six belts, going into level one belts, and it worked a little bit smaller capacity too system

[thorny root]

break it into 5 chunks of 240, splitting those down to 60, then 20.

You do that by taking off 480 twice, splitting that twice, and this leaves 240. Splitting that into 2 120 belts forces the rest to mesh.

[thorny root]

oh you said 60 per machine, not 60 machines. Yeah just skip the last step then.

[crimson moat]

ficsit man

i have 583 stuff going on a 1200 belt, any easy way to throttle the belt to a number above 583 but much lower than 780?

~~ 10 min later

I've found a nice solution with loopback via smart splitters and prio mergers to recirculate excess ingots rather than sinking them, without blocking any of the fresh input onto the belts - this fills the belts 100% and looks great, takes a bit of room though.

Sink rate is production minus consumption, but it does it from full belts rather than half empty

It actually doesn't even need a priority merger to work flawlessly in this case, the prio merger makes it more robust to different conditions though

[vapid gorge]

Because the layouts SCIM gives in realistic view, while functional, are almost always the stupidest method of doing it

The planner has no concept of human design or space, just links

It’s basically like trusting a chatbot.

[versed violet]

I once built this thing. Upon replacing the far end, the water begun rushing at max flow, without any external power (look at valve indicator!!)
Crazy perpetuum mobile. If we only got some kind of water wheels to extract energy from flowing liquids

[versed violet]

I put couple such pipes in my tunnels, need to check if they are still flowing forward after 500h

[thorny root]

T.T this causes me pain to hear and think about.

[versed violet]

Devs implemented fluid physics very well, just forgot to add friction 😁

[unique cypress]

Oh, no, there's friction. It's just that there's also a source of infinite energy that perfectly counteracts it

[peak jacinth]

Can someone help me figure out how much power I need for this?

[unique cypress]

Modeler tells you lol

[versed violet]

Not possible to tell if we dont know the miner mk you have available and whether they sit on normal/pure/impure nodes.

[peak jacinth]

Mk. 1 Miner, all nodes are of Normal quality.

Oh wait hold on

Nvm I got it

[wispy elk]

Hey I got a stupid question so just bear with me. I am on the last tier and I am looking at the online calculator and then the thought hit me while I am looking at the loop for recycled rubber and plastic recipes. Do I need to produce that in the same factory or can I just give the factory a start up amount and let it work itself out?

[versed violet]

1. Yes, you can just drop some into loop and if everything is connected properly, it will just keep making more.
2. I recommend using residual rubber recipe and dumping the output of that into plastic refineries. You are most likely going to have some polymer resin byproduct at some point, so just use it instead of sinking. Residual rubber better vs residual plastic because uses less resin and more water.

[wispy elk]

Right, but I am just not wanting to use water at all. I am making a recipe and if I put in the water I have to build an extra pipe into it. I know that doesn't sound like a big deal, but when you leave your factory for a few days and then come back to it sometimes that mystery pipe is a bastard to find.

Or use less water is what I mean. I just have a recipe that will take 700 water for example. And not building the residual rubber will save me that 100 water so I just need to build one pipe. It is more about the context of my problem. I know the most efficient way of doing it would be to tie it in. In this case one less pipe I think is efficient.

[versed violet]

In that case, see point 1. make sure the output of some refineries is looped back to the input of other side of the loop to ensure there is material to work on. you can just loop it all like pretzel and funnel the excess as output.

[vapid gorge]

if you're using the recycled rubber/plastic recipes you really want to use the diluted fuel recipes. Which will need water anyway

and residual rubber uses a drop in the bucket compared to the diluted fuel section

[wispy elk]

Oh ya, I can loop it, that is what I normally do, was just kind of wondering if it was possible at all to just drop and leave it.

[versed violet]

as long as there is a single piece to prime the system, yes, but probably want a stack or two to make it quicker.

[wispy elk]

Oh definitely. I was just thinking about like 8 stacks just to get a good ball rolling in it. I also kind of feel like it saves room as well.

[versed violet]

They are nice, but not 'mandatory' if for some reason water is far away.

[wispy elk]

Right I am just trying to make 200 batteries / min. With that being said it takes me 693 water for the recipe. But 109 of that goes to residual rubber. So instead of bringing two lines of water in I just need to bring one. save the space and if I want to I can always ship the polymer somewhere else.

[vapid gorge]

I guess? space is infinite though, you can always over clock some machines to shrink stuff down, and I'd argue that the logistics of moving it back and worth would take up more room if that's the worry

Unless you just use long belts I guess

[versed violet]

sounds more like 'cant be bothered to run second pipe through desert, will just sink resin'

[wispy elk]

Yep, it's the desert.

[vapid gorge]

I suppose but I think the furthest water fro moil near any of hte deserts is like 100m

sorry, 200m

[versed violet]

Lazines is always a valid excuse for not doing something.

[vapid gorge]

not when you do more work to avoid the work >.>

huh, that 200m is actually teh fursthest any oil is to water in the game

[analog tulip]

I'm just realizing how small meters look, staring down at the grid lines of the blueprint designer.

[vapid gorge]

and how many meters tall the player character is?

[analog tulip]

Appears to be just under 2m

It's probably an FOV thing

[vapid gorge]

really? because it really seems you're almost as tall as the 4m wall

[analog tulip]

Check again. Put down a 2m foundation and you can't see over the top.

[vapid gorge]

Hmm it seems like the head would be over the 2m mark at least even if you cant see over it

ah no, photo mode shows it

[dusky dust]

Yeah, there's something about the camera placement in first person which IMO makes it feel like you're a lot bigger than you really are

Probably to do with your running speed and jump height too (esp. with blade runners)

[dawn beacon]

I have 8 coal generators with 120 coal being pumped through a setup of splitters entering through one end. Only the first 2 generators are actually filling with coal and the rest aren’t getting any…. Math tells me it should eventually flow through them all but it’s not lol.

Do you need to oversupply when you have that many generators to one line?

Or have a faster tier of belts

I remedied this situation by adding another 120 of coal going through the other side and each belt supplying 4 generators and it’s working as a fix.. but not optimal in my mind lol

[jagged vortex]

YouTube: satisfactory manifold

[wind spade]

if you're manifolding it, you need to wait a bit until it all fills up (or fill it manually)

[upbeat summit]

if i want to transport almost 2k nitrogen gas from point A to point B, how many freight cars should i attach, will 2 of them (max 1.2k) suffice, or is there something tricky about it cuz.... fluids?

[wind spade]

one per pipe is imo a nice rule of thumb

[upbeat summit]

hmm, 2 pipe in, and 2 pipe out won't work?

[wind spade]

no, since the train platform loading pauses while train is docked

[upbeat summit]

true, but that would pause regardless if there are 2 frieght cars or 4 right?(4 in case fo 1 pipe in and 1 pipe out)

[wind spade]

well you add a buffer obviously

[upbeat summit]

i don't even unerstand why it has to pause like this, hopefully they update it somewhere in near future

[upbeat summit]

ohh yeah ok

[wind spade]

use both inputs/outputs, then merge/split pipe

[upbeat summit]

yeah regarding train buffers, let's say it brings 600/min of something, and my factory consumes 600/min of that thing, so even if i start if by making the buffer / storage full, won't the buffer / storage empty out eventually?

[wind spade]

no because you use both inputs

to the platform

[upbeat summit]

i don't understand, so like if i have a 600/min pipe, i split it at the input side and connect it to the both fluid inputs, and then merge similarly at the output?

how will this help?

[wind spade]

e.g.

[upbeat summit]

ohhk, but again, how will this not eventually drain out the buffer when i'm getting exactly what i'm consuming?

[wind spade]

why would it?

if it drains the buffer, that means you've used more than is coming in (on average)

[upbeat summit]

cuz it would keep on draining for those 27 secs, and not be able to refill as incoming rate = outgoing rate ?

[wind spade]

incoming rate is up to 1200

[upbeat summit]

how?

[wind spade]

(assuming you're talking unloading, this image is for loading)

[upbeat summit]

the setup would be the same regardless right?

[wind spade]

yeah just flipped pump

[upbeat summit]

hmm ok, lemme try this

[wind spade]

for loading: it just goes the bottom pipe, if platform is locked, it fills a buffer, so after it's unlocked, it empties from buffer to platform to top input (and still feeds with the bottom pipe)

for unloading: it feeds from bottom pipe and also fills the buffer from top pipe, if platform is locked, only buffer provides fluid

[upbeat summit]

kk thanks

ohh ok, i get it now

[upbeat summit]

this explains the unloading part, ty

[tropic hawk]

well then thats called "applied lazieness", "procrastination", or "inefficiency"

[crimson moat]

You're just severely underestimating how long it takes to fill.

The fill condition is 6x100 coal in buffer (at which point half of the remaining goes into #7 and the other half into #8, so all are fed).

If it were turned off, it would take 5 minutes to fill to that point.

If it's turned on, it will consume a fraction of that coal as it goes in, which will increase the fill time - especially as it gets towards the end, where 87.5% of the coal that you put in is being consumed by 7 generators worth of production and only the final 12.5% is effectively filling the manifold.

The fill time in this case is 29 minutes and 20 seconds.

To avoid fill time you can use one of several pre-loading techniques, or you can split equally 8-ways (which has essentially zero startup latency on all machines). That requires 7 splitters for 8 generators to split 1>2>4>8 equally.

[dawn beacon]

Okay thanks for the math!!

[crimson moat]

Oh, one more thing - if you use a smart splitter and set it to send "any" to its machine and only "overflow" down the rest of the manifold, it will run fewer machines during the warmup period, sending a higher % of the input to machine buffers instead and thus warming faster.

It still takes a while, but it can cut that 29m20s to like 15m. Can be good for mid-lategame factories as it's easy to automate smart splitters to the point where they're essentially free, and you only have to configure the splitter once and then paste it.

30m is a pretty typical manifold warmup time, but it can be a few minutes or it can be 5 hours with edge cases. For a quick approximation you can count [(machine count * stack size) divided by input speed] and the manifold fill time will be roughly proportional to that. In this case this would be 8 generators x 100 coal / 120 = 6.67. If a different system gives you an answer of 60, it's gonna be around 10 times as long.

[wind spade]

I'm interested in where you got the number 🤔 my manifold tool shows something slightly different (though I don't trust it 100%, so that's why I'm asking)

[wind spade]

oh, nvm I was also looking at a differet thing 😄

yeah 29:20 for me as well

[crimson moat]

Yeah it should be the last number, because when it starts to split enough to power 8 gens it will have a net flow of +0

and it wont progress any further

[unique cypress]

The theoretical max per platform is just about 895/min. Which is just under 1.5 pipes

And that's theoretical, so yeah, 1 pipe per platform is a pretty safe assumption

[unique cypress]

It still takes a while, but it can cut that 29m20s to like 15m

17 min 17 s by my math

Also, time is usually measured in minutes, not meters 🙃

[crimson moat]

i accidentally made a manifold with a 67 hour warmup time

[dusky bronze]

i hate it when that happens

[crimson moat]

floating point error detected

[ashen stirrup]

I need to figure out how to set this up to have a machine that runs only on byproduct water

[vapid gorge]

sort out the total amount of water the bauxite needs
subtract the waste water outputed from it

run the fresh group on the remaining amount

[ashen stirrup]

That makes sense

[vapid gorge]

example layout.

it'll depend on which recipes you're using

blue is fresh, red is waste

[ashen stirrup]

Thanks. I should have grabbed a screenshot of how I set it up, but it worked out nicely.

Red circles are the parts I've finished... it's cool to almost see the end in sight 😆
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Axm5uuRZR7BLTePhMZpC

I'm building on the footprint of the 5 train stations I built to take materials for this, and it looks like I won't even use all of two floors.

[minor orchid]

sf+ :>

[oblique hollow]

Average SF+ Tier 3 production line:

[minor orchid]

itll only get better

^^

[oblique hollow]

the only way is
down down down

[minor orchid]

oh also i got a question

how do you go about going vertical

[oblique hollow]

you just go up

[minor orchid]

do you do it? if so, how?

[oblique hollow]

just use a wall and go up and then you make a foundation floor

[minor orchid]

well i mean yeah duh

but just like.. how do you split it exactly?

[minor orchid]

production tiers like maybe here?

where bottom is basics and up goes more adv?

[oblique hollow]

arbitrarily.
there is no fixed rule for what goes on top.
I tend to just go with floor sizes

if something doesnt fit on the bottom floor anymore it goes on the next floor

[minor orchid]

whats stopping you from expanding the floor

[oblique hollow]

unless it involves a lot of liquids

[oblique hollow]

nothing. its arbitrary, thats the point

i dont want a giant platform

sometimes it may be terrain that imposes a limit

if you go up high enough there is no terrain

i find that boring and ugly so i dont do that

[minor orchid]

im building by the falls on the west coast and so i dont have much terrain

[minor orchid]

and so i sectioned out roughly this to the left for that production

but i think i might go with the 2nd tier vertical

[oblique hollow]

i probably would have put manufacturing on a top floor

its not a whole lot of machines and doesnt involve a lot of routing

process the ingots or whatever initially until it reduces in volume and then you can use less belts and go to the next floor

Reinforced plates might stay on the lower platform due to the high volume of parts going into it

but rotors / stators / motors kinda seem like they could easily go on the next floor

[minor orchid]

yeah thats how i split the process kinda, into ingots, and part 2 with assembling

[minor orchid]

eh 180/80 isnt really a lot

[unique cypress]

Wow somebody bothered to add sf+ recipes and items to Modeler

[minor orchid]

yeah and am kinda glad

[oblique hollow]

literally the only up-to-date tool that isnt a blank spreadsheet where you do math yourself

[thick plank]

Whats wrong about that btw?

Math isnt hard and it trains your brain

[oblique hollow]

nothing its just hard to keep track of in all honesty

[minor orchid]

math isnt hard

okay solve me how many of each item i need to make 15 hmf

[oblique hollow]

and you cant exactly redesign stuff on the spot without reworking your spreadsheet for at least 30 minutes

[thick plank]

Thats not hard, thats just a long calculation.

[minor orchid]

considering byproducts that need to be used and splitting etc

[thick plank]

I dont have that just lying around rn cause I didnt need it so far ( I always play with others, and those usually have a setup in their folders)

[thick plank]

That one I actually do see

[oblique hollow]

SF+ is a lot more byproduct heavy than regular SF

[thick plank]

Splitting? Just manifold the raw numbers

[minor orchid]

@thick plank these are the amounts of stuff needed

[oblique hollow]

and if you wanna recycle those byproducts or figure out which path to go with, flexibility is REALLY neat to have

[thick plank]

Is that modded?

[minor orchid]

yeah sf+

[oblique hollow]

yes, thats the point

[minor orchid]

vanilla would be doable

[thick plank]

Ok, so even more complicated, but not really increasing the difficulty.

The way I usually manually Plan my factories (wich is every one I build):

I decide on one product. I just define a variable (x) as its output per Minute. Then I decide on a recepy for it, look at the first resource and how many per minute I need (as a functiom of x). I then iterate that step for every branch until I habe it all layed out, and then I pick an x so that the numbers look nice

Though never played sf+, so I dont have all the recepies for that. Though that would just mean a longer operation, the involved steps are still gonna be easy

[minor orchid]

holy i need 3 mk3 belts

x_x

[oblique hollow]

yeah and in vanilla that process is still quite easily spreadsheet-able.
if you settle on a recipe path early on.

Doing the same when simple products already have a recipe chain thats twice as long and have multiple paths already without any alts...
gets a bit tedious

[thick plank]

RIP.

[oblique hollow]

Its really just a question if you are up to doing it all by hand

if you find it too exhausting then a different tool isnt bad to have

[thick plank]

Idk man. Tend to experience building it takes far more time that planning. I think my full nuclear setup took something like 15 minutes max? Thats basically nothing

[oblique hollow]

both

both take longer in SF+

[minor orchid]

this is to make steel

its not just foundry -> constructor

its fckin crusher -> (blast furnace -> reformer)x2 -> foundry

AND you have byproducts

stone slag etc

hey at least mk2 belts are way cheaper

[thick plank]

Honestly, whats confusing me is this.

Your playing an extremely complicated mod. But you dont want to deal with that complexity, instead just transferring the workload to a tool.

Why not instead play less complicated so you still can do the actual planning? Or do you not like the planning part

[minor orchid]

i like the planning

i dont like suffering :>

so i use something that makes me not want to give up

its like saying idk youre like doing physics and assume potential energy is mgh instead of using -GMm/r, while calculating G too instead of just using its value

[unique cypress]

I like planning which recipes I'm gonna use. But I don't like doing basic math over and over just to know how many machines I need

[thick plank]

Im fine with people not liking the planning, my question was why first download a mod that makes it more difficult and then not do it. Unsless sf+ also adds new content?

[dusky dust]

I mean, tool use among Satisfactory users is extraordinarily common, regardless of the complexity of factories

Just because someone wants more challenge via a mod like SF+ doesn't mean that they also want to give up the tools they use to help plan things out

[unique cypress]

besides, most tools help a lot with the math, but not much with planning. and basic math is boring and slow to do by hand. so why not use a calculator

[dusky dust]

That kind of advance planning is, for many folks, part of the fun

[thick plank]

but whats the purpose of making it harder if you dont actually do the zard stuff? Thats why im confused

[unique cypress]

doing basic math over and over isn't difficult. it's tedious and boring

[thick plank]

but how does sf+ make the game more difficult?

[dusky dust]

Using calculators/solvers does indeed offload a chunk of the effort that's otherwise required to do your recipe selection and machine count math, etc.

But if you're the sort of person who likes using solvers/calculators on vanilla Satisfactory, there's no reason why you wouldn't also want to continue using those solvers/calculators when using a modded version as well

[dusky dust]

Can read about it yourself, if you like: https://ficsit.app/mod/SatisfactoryPlus

Using tools doesn't mean that you somehow magically don't have to still implement the factories ingame, or sort out your logistics, or figure out how to deal with the resource flow in-factory, or deal with setting up pipes properly, or making sure that you've got the power necessary to support the new factory, etc

Like I disagree that these tools are doing the "hard stuff" for you

They are, certainly, offloading some of the effort, and solvers specifically are doing a lot of the recipe comparison which can be quite tedious to work out by hand

But it's not like you're somehow shorting yourself on the game if you use them

Folks are playing this game to build factories. Planners don't build factories for you, they just help you figure out how you want to get them built

[fringe seal]

🤔 tangent: if you write a linear solver program to optimize your factory, does it count as you doing the hard part?

[dusky dust]

Heh, that honestly is part of the reason why I actually mostly use my own custom solver to help me plan factories, rather than relying on sftools. :D

[fringe seal]

(and imo: the best part of planning is choosing what recipes to use)

[dusky dust]

Though my own isn't actually linear-programming based (yet) so it's a lot dumber than sftools, and I admit I use sftools not infrequently as a comparison base, or to check out other alts, since my own solver's a bit clunky for that. :P

[dusky dust]

Of course this conversation was kicked off by a Modeller screenshot (not one of the solvers) which doesn't even do the recipe selection stuff for you. :D

[wind spade]

Wasn't the most fun adding linear solver so I understand why you don't have that (yet) 🙂

[minor orchid]

augh

washer plants sorter

is it lobsided? yes

will it work? i think

takes in 3 belts, outputs 5 sorted: a,b,c,d and overflow

[dusky dust]

Someday! I just have to take the time to come to grips with it. :P

It's the kind of tool I'd love to have in my toolbelt, honestly

[wind spade]

Feel free to dm me for help, I spent like two months trying to make it work 🙂

[dusky dust]

Heh, will do. I still don't have the headspace for that kind of thing, alas, so it'll probably be awhile. We'll see if it ever happens. :P

[minor orchid]

bruh.

aaAAAA

absoulet bs

[icy sun]

Is there a consensus on the superior browser-based calculator tool? I've been using Satisfactory Tools all through early access but wondering if there's anything that's agreed upon as better

[unique cypress]

tools is still the best overall imo

[mint coral]

i use both tools and satisfactory-calculator.

since tools poos itself when you need do input waste. So i used Calculator to model out the infrastructure i need to make 10 ficsonium fuel rods per min then i borked it into manageable bits in tools.

[ashen stirrup]

Input waste?

[young viper]

hey, i have a question 🙂 in a manifold like the one in the image, does it make a difference for fill speed of the machines later down the line if the lines leading into the machines transport less units/min? 🤔 think like 20-30 machines in the manifold

[minor orchid]

it might make more machines start workign sooner, but will take longer to fill completely

[young viper]

so it doesnt really matter in the end and i should just accept whatever fill time to 100% the last machine ends up with? guess thats alright

[dusky dust]

How does it poo itself when you need to input waste? I admit that there's a bit of manual math you have to do to figure out how much waste you'll be generating, but as soon as you do that it'll tell you how to get to the next step w/ no problems

Or do you just mean that it doesn't have a virtual "recipe" for the rod->waste conversion?

[mint coral]

i mean the fact you need to input waste at all. satisfactory cacualter will just tell you have many nuclear plants you need rather then fail to work

[unique cypress]

It'll fail to calculate things correctly as it often likes to do so 🤷‍♂️

[mint coral]

ive not had that issue as of yet

[dusky dust]

Eh, that's hardly "pooing itself." It's just a side effect of the fact that tools only inputs actual recipes (from game data), whereas nuclear plants just kind of Do Their Thing

You just solve for rods and do a slight bit of math yourself for the next step; hardly a big deal. (Though I admit it often catches people out, since folks often assume it'll do the whole chain, NPPs and all)

[unique cypress]

If you really can't stand that Tools requires manual input, I suggest using Logistics instead of Calculator. It's a bit laggy on large plans but so is Calculator and at least, as far as I can tell, doesn't make any mistakes

[mint coral]

i like tools to be clear. thats why i use both. i like breaking down big builds into sections so i do that in tools

[dusky dust]

(I do also agree that it'd be nice if tools solved "through" NPPs; as it is, there's some stuff you sort of can't necessarily solve for since you lose some associations between graphs)

[mint coral]

i do math on spreadsheets too. My point is as far as i can tell all of them have there querks and strentghs so stick with whatever you like ^^

like the game there is many solutions

[unique cypress]

yeah, I remember solving for max nuclear power back in some old version before Modeler or Logistics existed and it was kind of a pain. Especially because it's not as simple as "use alts wherever possible"

[mint coral]

i started in update 7 i wana say so i have had some luxeries always lol

[unique cypress]

meanwhile, U7 is the only version since public release that I didn't play at all

[minor orchid]

'nah no way ill need so much space'
me after doing just the steel, still needing bronze and 20 damn concrete assemblers 😨

[wind spade]

that's why you don't make space before making factory 😄

[minor orchid]

its just the reformers are so damn big

and just steel needs 25 of them

[minor orchid]

@wind spade also wdyt

[wind spade]

probably... "why"

[minor orchid]

filtrator output

:>

[wind spade]

doesn't answer the "why" question

[minor orchid]

i need to sort out 4 things

from 3 full belts

[wind spade]

again... why 😄

[minor orchid]

why not :P

im using the filtrated ores so

[wind spade]

don't mix belts, never have to sort

[minor orchid]

they have 1 output

with 4 items?

i kinda dont have much of a choice

[wind spade]

what has one output?

[minor orchid]

filtrator

[unique cypress]

they're playing sf+ so a lot of vanilla advice won't be applicable

[wind spade]

even then, why does sorting 4 items need more than 3 splitters?

[tawny swan]

when i think about how pipes work it makes sense to me that i can tie all of them together and do a junction whenever i need and the flow should work like each produces 100 i need 200 so i tie all 16 together in a line of pipe then throw a junction after 2 machines make 200 for the pull up for the need of 200 ?

[wind spade]

if you make 100 and need 200, just do 2:1 ratios?

[oblique hollow]

you can but its not worth it for higher numbers

if you can, dubvide into smaller networks

you do NOT want to troubleshoot a failing giant pipe network blob

[tawny swan]

i guess i can just cut the line after every 2 machines

how do yall do your upside down U with pipes? ive been using foundation getting higher than removing the foundation and support but now i want to go over 2 blenders

blue is water need a pipe to go up and over both connecting both output pipes

[oblique hollow]

stackable supports

you can just zoop them upwards

[tawny swan]

awesome thank you

[minor orchid]

it is 2 smart splitter stacks

and 5 output belts

a,b,c,d and overflow

[crimson moat]

belt graphical error (irregular spacing) on belt seam

[dusky dust]

Sometimes when two piles of concrete are in love...

[orchid brook]

Is it okay if the pipe says 559 or 560 like its the same as 600?

[steel knot]

i have a load balanced setup of 6 manufacturers but need to overclock one of the units. the overclocked one never hits 100%. do i need to split the overclock among all 6?

or just across the pair that are on the same split

[orchid brook]

what?

re-explain that

oh wait i get it

personly i just make a manifold at this point

[steel knot]

ugh yeah. my blueprint is set up as a load balance though

[orchid brook]

...

ya ask someone else

i think ya split the OC

like make each of the machines oc so it all equals the same %

something like that

[steel knot]

i think the answer only needs 3 OC and not 6

trying it out

[orchid brook]

okay

[vapid gorge]

560 is not hte same as 600, no

[orchid brook]

so there is a problem... again

[steel knot]

yeah seems to just need to balance out each branch and it's okay

[knotty hornet]

You do end up saving power (slightly) if you spread out the clock speed over all the machines.

It will use more shards if you are upclocking though

[steel acorn]

okay, trains. what are some good rules of thumb for them to maximize efficiency?

[vapid gorge]

two lane paths, stations off to the side.
That simplifies life greatly for you

also depends what you define as 'efficiency'

[steel acorn]

okay, sweet. and would a 4 lane like this be good for said trains?

[steel acorn]

just making sure it can keep up with belt speeds

[vapid gorge]

that'll depend on platforms and schedules

[vapid gorge]

trains always take the shortest route - 4 lanes will go to waste

[steel acorn]

ah, well it looks cool, so that's not really too big of an issue i suppose. wish i knew that beforehand but oh well

[vapid gorge]

I've never seen anyone have enough trains where 2 lanes didn't manage it easily

[crimson moat]

a trainline is ballpark 100k m3/min

can be a lot less with bad practices

so it's high but not functionally infinite if you're a large builder

I'm not sure how train routing around traffic with multiple lanes in each direction works, if at all

[steel acorn]

how many train cars should my trains have? like, what's the upper limit?

[crimson moat]

more than 4 carts per locomotive will hurt climbing ability

more than like 25-50 total can require overly long stations or start to cause throughput issues because of the length that trains have to drive to go from the back of the station to the front of it

[steel acorn]

okay so 4 is a good rule of thumb, anything above might cause problems, dont go into double digits

[crimson moat]

personally i'd say 8 carts with 2 locomotives is a good number, and you can increase throughput via more trains on the route (and after a point, more stations too) rather than making each train and station longer than that

[steel acorn]

okay, so a 4:1 ratio of car to locomotive, got it

honestly with what im doing i can probs get away with have 1 and 6 since my incline is maxed at 1m

[crimson moat]

You can do a lot more with low inclines. Thing is, 4:1 already achieves an 80% payload ratio - so even if you had an infinite amount of carts to 1 locomotive it would move less than +25% extra stuff. Realistically any benefit from stretching cart numbers is going to be significantly less than that.

I'm also not completely clear on how it affects the acceleration (everywhere) and uphill speed maintenance of the train on lower inclines that are still in the climbable range. Any speed loss that may be incurred from using fewer locomotives could negate the benefit of swapping locomotives for carts, even making it net negative.

There may be gains to be had there, but they're relatively small and it requires caution

[orchid brook]

can like someone help me with something in my world

like play with me

cuz i tried everything and it has been a week and i still dont know how to fix it

its with fluids

[wind spade]

Share images in #1038092680493801533

[orchid brook]

okay

its like there are some fluids that are not just working like i have a full pipe of 600 HOR going to diluted fuel belnders that each takes 50 so that means 12 of them but for some damn reason some machines fill up and some dont

even tho the pipe is realy high up and its not headleft or flow rate issue

like the machiens are not emptying the fluids

[deft lichen]

Share images in #1038092680493801533

they're not emptying because the pipe is raised, keep it level with the outputs and raise the belt instead

[orchid brook]

Wait what?

I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIGIRE THIS OUT FOR A WEEK AND THAT WAS THE PROBLEM

i am gone crash out

[orchid brook]

do i need valves?

[unique cypress]

You need to not use valves

[orchid brook]

okay

[unique cypress]

From my testing, a raised pipe is better on both input and output

[orchid brook]

well i am gone try it

[wind spade]

practically never. Ignore them and you'll be just fine

[orchid brook]

ya i heard that a lot but for some reason i feel better with them

[wind spade]

they practically never help and usually hurt your systems

[orchid brook]

okay i will never use them then

so i just finished the piping and i am gone wait for it to start up and if it doesnt work

....i am just gone quit

[vapid gorge]

well those are the outputs so not sure what you've done to fix it. The inputs is almost 100% of the time where the issues lie

[unique cypress]

Yeah, well, valves managed to improve my "600/min" pipe from 590 to 595. But McGalleon managed to make it 600 without valves so...

[orchid brook]

the input wasnt a problem it was the problem was the machiens werent emptying

and the input is working more then fine

[vapid gorge]

generally machines don't output because there's back flow at the inputs

that's what stuttering does

[orchid brook]

so i have to rasise the input

??

[vapid gorge]

unless you've done something like ignored headlift or trying to go over the pipe flow limit? almost always the inputs

[deft lichen]

I would expect this for inputs, but outputs?

[unique cypress]

You would expect that lowering the outputs would make it better, right? Well, in my test, it made it much worse. Raised was only slightly better than level, but still better

[deft lichen]

indeed

strange

see, this is the issue I was talking about earlier, it's not fun or challenging to stick to the one proven design

I always level feed and never have any problems with flow

[orchid brook]

big problem if i am rebuild my plant how do i start it up if i dont have any power?

[unique cypress]

Power storage, augmenters or temporary biomass

[orchid brook]

none of then will reach 6MW which i need to boot up the thing

wait what 6MG

something is not adding up?

[unique cypress]

GW

[orchid brook]

ya missclick but why is it 6GW its only some ref and blenders

[vapid gorge]

power storage

[orchid brook]

then i am gone need a lot of it

[unique cypress]

7 augmenters can do that

[orchid brook]

70 sloops?

[vapid gorge]

not really. Power storage can output a lot more over time

[orchid brook]

bruh i aint doing that

[vapid gorge]

if you have 4gw of power storage, for example, it can output 16gw for 15min

[wind spade]

did you test it with vertical or horizontal junctions?

[unique cypress]

Horizontal

[orchid brook]

yay more side quests

[unique cypress]

*GWh

[vapid gorge]

how side quests? you can build that in a couple minutes

[orchid brook]

i dont have moudular frames automated i deleted that for some reason

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's a problem in general. Probably don't delete a factory until you have it's replacements up

[wind spade]

don't delete any factory until you have it's replacements up

[orchid brook]

sometimes pain is the best teatcher

[vapid gorge]

at least you won't do it again xD

[orchid brook]

this fun

[vapid gorge]

has least mod frames aren't hard to automate. Can do it all with iron if you want

[orchid brook]

ya its bascli done already cuz i have other stuff automated

[orchid brook]

how many is that

wait what i run out of wire before frames

[unique cypress]

It's 100 wire and 10 frames each. So it's a lot of wire

[orchid brook]

how many storages do i need

[unique cypress]

Depends how long it'll take to start up. I usually do 1 h of max consumption so it'd be 6GWh for you

[orchid brook]

hofully no more more probplems after this rebuild

[vapid gorge]

each power storage is 100mwh, but it can output at higher rates

[orchid brook]

this is stupidly scuff but meh let it slide

ok so i just rebuild the fuel and i am wating for it to startup

and if it still doesnt work then ya quiting

hmm this wierd now the RF blenders are working fine but somehow the fuel gens are not working

[covert laurel]

2 thermal propulsion rockets a minute take some screws...

[unique cypress]

With the right alts, they take 0

[wind spade]

there's nothing like "right" alts 😄

[vapid gorge]

you could use steel screws?

[unique cypress]

I don't think you understand the meaning of "right" in this context

[wind spade]

not left

[orchid brook]

how do i make the fuel gens overflow faster

i split the 600 pipe into 300 pipes which goes into 72 fuel gens and its takeing a ton of time

[unique cypress]

Turn a few of the first ones off temporarily

[orchid brook]

standby?

okay i will try that out

i tured the first 20 off

28*

[orchid brook]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS FIRST PIPE ONLINE

I AM SOOO HAPPY
ok now do it for the rest of the 8 pipe

[opaque relic]

Im this case yes there are. If OP doesnt want screws he can choose the right ones to eliminate screws from the process. Its not like you are Socrates 😂

[wind spade]

I guess the "not left" joke didn't hit you either 🤔

[opaque relic]

Yes but im talking about this in general since this is not the first time you do this

[wind spade]

and it's not the first time people think there is something like "best" alt, when there isn't (in general, not in specific situation given specific requirements)

[opaque relic]

Yes but even with specifications you still say there isn't

Fe this one

[wind spade]

this one there was no specification

OP only posted a screenshot

and if there's enough specification, I always answer with the concrete recipe path

[opaque relic]

I guess your either not understanding what OP meant or you didn't see his messqge

[wind spade]

please tell me what OP meant by this #math-and-meta message

[opaque relic]

"takes some screws..." that its like way too much.

If I say "I had a wonderfull day..." would you think I really had a nice day or not

[wind spade]

"takes some screws..." that its like way too much.
see, I read it as "oh, look how many screws this takes".

[opaque relic]

It would be more logical if (s)he said "takes some screws." If (s)he was pointing to the amount

That would be proper sentence forming

[wind spade]

they did say "take some screws" tho

[opaque relic]

Difference between "." or "..."

[wind spade]

I think you're reading into that too much

[opaque relic]

Not really

[wind spade]

(and until OP responds, this all is pointless conversation anyway)

[opaque relic]

More like proper sentence forming

[opaque relic]

Guess you havent learnt your lesson then.

[wind spade]

you didn't either so yeah, pointless

[opaque relic]

You gotta be kidding.😂

[wind spade]

I'm not, you?

[opaque relic]

Im trying to learn you to not be Socrates after someone gives good advice. Yes there may not be right recipes according to you but you dont have to make the comment when there is literally context given.

KYO responded to OP about with choosing the right alts they take 0 screws. Which he means with a selection of precise alts(aka the right alts, since we dont need to expand the words of what they mean). You saying there is no right alts is not only pointless but also wrong in the way KYO may have intended. As there are specific alts that make this process take 0 screws.

I get you saying no alts are the best but sometimes proper sentence understanding is nice before commenting something like that

[wind spade]

again, I guess the joke about "right" alts missed you

[opaque relic]

Yes KYO may not have intended it this way but let me tell you when your sentence is pointless.

If OP meant too much screws and KYO answered by saying there are right alts your comment is out of context

If OP meant there are many screws in it and KYO says by choosing the right alts for this situation you get 0 your also out of context

If OP meant there are too much screws and KYO says about choosing the right for this situation your wrong and pointless.

If OP meant there are many scres and KYO says there are better alts to get 0 your correct but as she is making those items she has decent knowledge about alts and you still are not correct. Your partially correct.

So your doing this every time with the chance of being correct is like 12.5%

[opaque relic]

Thats called shrodingers douchebag. thats not only socially wrong but also disrepectful

[wind spade]

oh sorry for making a joke

[knotty hornet]

Greeny, your jokes are bad

[wind spade]

it wasn't supposed to be a good joke

[opaque relic]

No its called shrodingers douchebag

If you dont know what that is search it up

You cant just change wether something is a joke after the person reacts on it

[wind spade]

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=joke

I literally put " 😄 " in as a joke

[opaque relic]

Oh beacuse if you smile its a joke

[wind spade]

yeah, that's how I use emojis

[opaque relic]

While your saying there is no right alt the whole time it was all a joke all alnog

[wind spade]

I use them to convey emotions

[opaque relic]

Yeah smiling =/ joking

[flat portal]

That tends to be the sign of humour

[opaque relic]

You were here still serious and all but after that your just switching to t was a joke

[deft lichen]

drama in discord

[opaque relic]

So when I smile I am joking, I cant just have an positive face in life

[deft lichen]

what's the point of this discussion

[wind spade]

I was replying to your "you always say", which I assumed was a serious question

[flat portal]

Why is it lowk interesting tho

[deft lichen]

life is short, make sure to spend as much time as possible arguing on the internet with strangers

[opaque relic]

Greeny, you want me to quote what a schroding douchebag is?

[wind spade]

I made a joke about "right" being "not left" and people bully me for making a joke 🤷

[opaque relic]

Nobodys bullying you

Dont turn the tables now

[wind spade]

except bullying is defined by recipient

[opaque relic]

Bullying is defined as an word itself

Schrödinger's douchebag (plural Schrödinger's douchebags)

(Canada, US, slang, derogatory, vulgar) A person who makes offensive or inflammatory remarks and characterizes these statements as either sincere or joking based on the reactions of others.

[flat portal]

Humour isnt just jokes. Humour can also be described as fun or enjoyable. If you smile you enjoy something. A laugh is just the reaction of liking something a lot. So when he smiled, or sent the smiling emoji, he was joking. That doesnt mean every time you smile its a joke.

[flat portal]

How was anything he said offensive or inflammatory? He made a bad joke. Thats it.

[opaque relic]

So how do I guess when hes literally always saying this and most of the times hes serious

[flat portal]

Its called acting 😭 🙏

[opaque relic]

Infalmmatory, he always says there is no right alt

[wind spade]

by my usage of emojis to convey meaning

no, I say there's no "best" alt

[opaque relic]

Your new and dont know what he normally does

[opaque relic]

yeah and you were arguing for like 10mins about right=best

[wind spade]

no, I was replying to your accusation of "you always say X"

[opaque relic]

Yeah your proving my point

[wind spade]

context gentleman, context

[flat portal]

Ok? I can still convey my thoughts on the current situation.

[opaque relic]

You just joined, you cant know what he all does, best is to stay out bc you have zero context

[wind spade]

don't worry, there's just a few people like that who get annoyed by things people say so much that they make it into a hour long convo. Rest of the server is pretty chill

[flat portal]

Ok so here's a simple fix, give me some context 🧍‍♂️

[opaque relic]

Sir, your always saying there is no right/best alt, and it is almost everytime serious

[opaque relic]

Search up thre is no best/right alt in the discord

[wind spade]

yeah. And when I joke, I always put a " 😄 " or similar at the end, or use strikethrough or /s.

[opaque relic]

your being a douchebag man

[wind spade]

<@&387163995947270144>

[nimble ore]

[flat portal]

Tbf tho, is there? Each alt has its own specific use case so there cant be a defined "best" or "right" alt. There's the best of the scenario but not overall

[opaque relic]

Lmao

[wind spade]

yeah, exactly

[opaque relic]

yes exactly, so when a specific scenario is given there is a right alt, read back to begin of this dicussion, you will see

[oblique hollow]

No clue what the original discussion was, i will NOT dig it up.
Just gonna reply to the current remark here.
there is no best alt.
Its all situational, there may be a best alt for a given situation but that doesnt mean that you can just throw out "x is the best alt"

[flat portal]

Ok so that I can agree on. That makes sense. The best of the scenario. What is the scenario though. Because I do not want to go digging through old messages at 2am

[nimble ore]

This discussion doesn't have anything to do with efficient factory building, Ficsit tought you better than this.

[opaque relic]

Was never done, situation was given, and someone said an nice comment about that there is an option to get zero screws

[wind spade]

original context is me making a pretty bad and apparently poorly received joke about "right" being "not left" 🤷

[oblique hollow]

Whether or not removing screws is a good move is a matter of taste tbh

[opaque relic]

Mod wants the discussion being end here, if you want more info scroll up but disucssion ended

[oblique hollow]

In any case:
Day 2353 of me advocating for leached copper for absolutely no reason other than "i think its neat actually"

[flat portal]

Actually, going off what the mod said. I recently got satisfactory, I only have like 20 hours on the game and most of those are in a world with my friend. We just got a coal power plant near the middle of the map next to 3 pure coal nodes. I was wondering if there is a better spot for a coal power plant or not? I think the area we put it was the crater lakes or something like that. Crater was in the name

[wind spade]

a slight correction - there's a best recipe path. it's never about a single recipe.

but yeah, that's most of my advocation here that Chris mentioned 😉

[oblique hollow]

in the middle being... where exactly?
is there any water nearby?

if it really is crater lakes then im kinda confused... i dont remember the coal there tbh

[flat portal]

Yeah its at the crater Lakes or whatever they are called. They are raised up on the ridges near the centre of the map. There's a massive pool of water that I have 9 water pumps going into 18 coal generators

[opaque relic]

Depending on your starting point I would say west coast or northeast coast is really good

[oblique hollow]

oh right, near the waterfalls right?

[flat portal]

Yeah

[opaque relic]

Thats actually pretty neat, I tinhk with overlcocking you can get enough untill your next power soure

[flat portal]

We started in the Plains, in the exact same area kibitz did on his first play through

[oblique hollow]

Err i have no particularily strong feeling about that location, but 3 pure nodes is quite good and you got lots of water

so Tbh i think thats already pretty good

[opaque relic]

Ahh, I think your current setup is good enough untill next recipe, or you can overclock your miners if you run out or get low on powe

[oblique hollow]

if you get the next miner tier that can also carry you quite a bit

unless you already have mk 2 miners

[flat portal]

I mean im already underclocking them. I have all the drills going at 50% cause the best belts we have rn are mk2. We have mk3 unlocked but we dont have a steel factory yet, which is what I was gonna do next time I get on the game

I have mk2 miners btw on the nodes

[opaque relic]

Yeah that does it, any more questions?

[flat portal]

I mean my main question was is there a better spot so

[oblique hollow]

If you already have mk 3 belts available then just get some steel going and then you can expand that coal power plant. should be pretty good to go

and i dont think that there is a better spot unless you wanna travel really far.
But all the other ones seem less ideal / further away from water / have worse node quality

[opaque relic]

There is a spot more east that hs 3 pures and a normal one, but for your current phase this is all you need, maybe you can check the location on the east out for massive early steel production

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#7.25;110737;-27599|gameLayer|limestonePure;ironPure;copperPure;cateriumPure;coalPure;oilPure;sulfurPure;bauxitePure;quartzPure;samPure;nitrogenGasWellPure;oilWellPure;waterWellPure;geyserPure;limestoneNormal;ironNormal;copperNormal;cateriumNormal;coalNormal;oilNormal;sulfurNormal;bauxiteNormal;quartzNormal;uraniumNormal;samNormal;nitrogenGasWellNormal;oilWellNormal;waterWellNormal;geyserNormal;oilWellImpure;coalImpure

[flat portal]

Dw i alr have it, that's how I found the pure nodes anyway but how much stuff did you have selected 😭 🙏

Did you have every node on the map selected or smt?

[opaque relic]

Mb this is like what I always have to check the nodes

Basicly everything but impures one

[flat portal]

Ykw thats fair
I js only select what im looking for

[analog tulip]

https://coder0xff.github.io/optifactory/#share=c:N4IgbgpgTgzglgewHYgFwCYA0ICGBjAFzkgBUcAjNEAM3wISgE8RtbCHGBlAnAiK4AB1w0eMmGoAjJmEIArgQAOCmAH0+ADwIThAYQQBbZXyhThMkHCTG1m7WmEBiAAQAZCDkjOIRgo2f0zjgKCAC0ACYQfISCgkguAPJQzjCKEHhw1P4ANnAA1hCosfFucAYQMPRIhQAsABwADMUurmUVVbWNzaXllcidTSzCBFAQEKpgcBAA7qoGCJE6IAb4ABZWEObCVsaqeAiVatMQcADmq-aoDQB00sIreOvVe-JIBEcn55cNFooIx1AXkgYHJfIgkKpjmcLhIfsJpjhKuNFFAFnJCB9oZc7iBIvBThC-gCJLRsjAIBZwnAYBRsuNyDhsjgkHhRCTGeSLKMMmkXnI3jAJABtST1TAANkwkgAzFg5XVpZgalKasrpOgatIAKyYdDSnWKvUAdilmDqWGVWslWAAnD81ZrMIqZZKagBdCwMpks6ATUTgiQ4iBIWkQcKqblwNJqchwAgrRRLAD0AGok+m0+mjRmk9R03mkwAvQtJgBWEAAGmWkzaaxAAIoAIRqpwAEqma0mtQARU4AQQAcsIAL4gYdAA

[wind spade]

you seem to be missing things in the "recipes" section 🤔 at least in coal gen (though those are not recipes really)

[muted sedge]

So if I am making a lot of ficsite would it be more efficient to use the caterium or the iron recipe? (cant use aluminum because all of that is being used elsewhere)

[dusky dust]

What do you mean by "efficient?"

(I assume you probably mean "least amount of SAM per Ficsite," but maybe not)

[muted sedge]

Resources mostly

[dusky dust]

Well, again, you have to decide what you're optimizing for

If you value Caterium more than SAM or Iron, then you'd want the Iron recipe

But if you value SAM the most then the answer's Caterium

"Most efficient" is an essentially impossible question -- you need to decide what exactly you're trying to accomplish

Recipe choices basically always have tradeoffs. You'll save on Resource X but use more Resource Y, etc.

(as an addendum, sftools (https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production) is pretty great for comparing recipe chains. Set your target Ficsite amount and then select/deselect recipes to see what the material costs will be for a given recipe chain. The graph will update as you change things)

(though the solver may end up preferring some specific recipes, so if it's "stuck" on a recipe or two that you don't want in the current graph, you may need to deselect those recipes to get it to choose another)

[muted sedge]

ok thanks

I guess I am building the 400 refinery's

[rapid reef]

Good evening together. I invested more than 100 hours in the game and wanted to play with someone. "I'm from Germany and would look forward to the same language players, but I also speak English and Spanish. Does anyone want to start over and play as a team?

[muted sedge]

send in here https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/1201555265942724758

[broken yarrow]

Do you Guys Think I should first Gather all possible Ores near my base and Set up factorys for the Most used items and then start with T7 and T8?

Cuz atm i wait quite long for some stuff, like heavy modular frames and all that

[wind spade]

no, build factories that you need at the moment, don't build for future and don't centralise 🙂

[broken yarrow]

Yeah I wil just Build some Factories for like Belts, manufactuers and all that So I do not need to Wait for them to be produced slowly

Like rn, I am making Modular Blueprints for Most Items, So I can just connect those up to craft "Higher Tier" stuff

Btw. Is SAM even usefull in the Early stages of the Game? Like I had a node mining since I had Miners

[tulip bronze]

Hey folks - I was wondering, is there any good ratios calculators out there? Perhaps the kind which allows the user to specify things like recipe used and extractor tier.