math-and-meta

[unique cypress]

And that's with DMR being made from SAM or Shards

So I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to afford to make all of the DMR via oscillators

Ah, that's with pure ingot, though. With default ingot, it goes down to 65% but in exchange you use like 90% of the quartz

So it all entirely depends on what else you want to have/already have in your world

[crimson moat]

pretty much anything is gonna use a lot of aluminum, especially if it uses the power that you're generating

quartz into more ingots is worth

[fringe seal]

at that point making APMs seem attractive

[unique cypress]

I'd only recommend making them if you have at least 500 GW of raw generation (i.e. without any augmenters)

[frosty owl]

BTW, that can be a whole subject in itself
You can find out more searching for "saturated sushi belts", but the most interesting takeaway (imo) is that you can build absolutely any balancer for any amount of items, if you just (example used, trying to achieve 4-5-10 ratio of 3 items on one belt):

• Find the minimum common multiplier (eg: 2x2x5 = 20)
• Design a normal balancer for that (1->20, including loopbacks)
• Flip the balancer around completely (mergers become splitters, splitters become mergers, inputs become outputs)
• Fill in the inputs with the items you want according to the ratio (ideally, you'd have 20 inputs to fill in, where you could plug 4+5+10 inputs with the items in ratio mentioned before, plugging the remaining inputs with the loopbacks)
  Ofc, one is free to optimize the result, so they might end up with much less inputs to actually hook up and mergers/splitters to build
  ||Examples in the Reddit post on the subject||

[ruby tulip]

yeah I somehow thought, that loopback belts wouldn't work as intendet when doing n:1 but i was wrong.

[frosty owl]

The thought of loopbacks working in balancers involving multiple items and "dumb" splitters boggles my mind too 🤷‍♂️

Seeing it working is like magic to me, and yet it damn works!

[quick gorge]

Then what's the point?... also ive opted to exclude fic from the idea

I just woke up (debatable)
I have no idea what is going on :]

[ruby tulip]

with 1:n i find it quiet logical, but n:1 is weird.

[quick gorge]

I would like to see different ideas on mixed reactors because the game is too simple, the more overly complicated a build is the better.
Bonus point if 90+% of people dont understand what the fuck is going on
So would love to chat is detail about ideas @frosty owl <3

[cerulean stratus]

oh man, I have to make 30 RCUs per minute

which is such a pain on all levels

[unique cypress]

It's really not
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=k4cTIiUkto3rHwYC8Ftl

[cerulean stratus]

yeah I don't have any oil nearby

[unique cypress]

well, it's like 50% more work without it so I'd find a different place for that factory that has oil

[cerulean stratus]

I have to do a lot of things

• currently only using 400 bauxite. I should try to use the whole 780, if not more thanks to the snapon mod
• I have to make a lot more crystal oscillators

[crimson moat]

quartz, caterium, water, copper and oil at the same place is kind of a pain in the ass

I had to import oil products after using one of the only places on the map that had the rest together

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah I'm building most of it in the top left of the desert, where the quartz is, the only thing I'm importing is aluminum stuff

[unique cypress]

Swamp

[frosty owl]

You would have sushi from factory to generator area 🤷‍♂️

[ruby tulip]

but the generators wouldn't run on a fuel mix. it would still be dedicated reactors.

and the idea behind this is to have mox(mixed oxide) Reactors.

[frosty owl]

Actually, I thought a bit more about this... I'll try to rephrase what I said, while including my new thoughts (I originally focused on feeding single-item belts to the generators in the prior message).

Let's say thay the total number of Generators is X = U + P where U are Generators needed to burn Uranium and P the generators needed to burn Plutonium. You can split (sushi-balancing) X until it becomes <=2.5 and then safely feed that output to generators appropriately clocked (all at the same clock, which would be X divided by what you split X into)

[frosty owl]

I realized that it could actually work for mixed-feed reactors as well ^^
So long as the input is provided (produced) correctly and split correctly, each generator should receive a stream of Rods matching exactly their consumption

Wether the "stream" is made by one or both kinds of Rods doesn't matter: what goes into the system is exactly as much as the whole system can consume, and the input is split exactly to feed each individual generator... There shouldn't be room for errors

[ruby tulip]

with this low item/minute i wouldnt bother balancing it. i would just build a manifold with smart splitters, so that the reactors receive items one at a time, and build a tiny bit more reactors than needed for the amount of fuel tk be safe.

balancing shouldn't even be necessary.

but you would wanna use a storagecontainer, that you let fill up before starting the reactors.

[frosty owl]

I interpret this (#math-and-meta message) as "whatever can add some kind of benefit, let's consider it, especially if complicated", with a sushi baseline. So I'm focusing on load-balanced designs tips right now

[ruby tulip]

that is true, but i think we already figured out ab balancer design yesterday, that should theoraticly work.

this should do the trick.

but if you have better, or more complicatet ideas, that would also be good.

[frosty owl]

I detailed my idea above.
In short: merging the Rods from the production machines, sushi-load-balancing them to the reactors (math above)

[quick gorge]

I've pretty much landed on just using U and Pu and leaving the Fics for a different setup as I already have plans for the Fics one and it's not near the latter, so if I can merge the U and Pu together it would be pretty dope,
Having 200 at 238%, making 8 sections of 25 and have 6.3 U, 2.8 Pu to each and those splits aren't that hard

[steel knot]

I was wondering the same. They said if you up it to 120 belts you get increments of 12 (items) so probably that. So I wonder if you could make it 20 items to get 5% increments

[vapid gorge]

it should be 9 item buffer iirc? don't know if that makes a difference to whatever the heck that is

[hushed kettle]

I'm going to test that right now and let you know

[unique cypress]

From what I gathered from the comments OP made, it seems that if you have a belt that can fit n items on it and fill it with m leaves (or other trash), it'll let through (n-m)/n of the full belt

[hushed kettle]

yep it fits 10 items

which is very convenient

i think the idea is since it fits 10 items it's going to let through (10-n)/10 items where n is the number of items on the belt

[vapid gorge]

right it's a belt 'valve'. Just clock your machine to output what you need

[hushed kettle]

you can do that but i think this is especially neat to regularize your output

to avoid getting clogs on manifolds for example

[vapid gorge]

you can regularize your output by clocking >.> and why would a manifold ever clog?

[hushed kettle]

wait it only works with a full belt

nvm it is relatively useless

[unique cypress]

Nah, imo the only reasonable use for this is what OP said. Drones. And trains

[vapid gorge]

I would image if it backs up the belt at all it might make the belt full?

[unique cypress]

You don't want to wait for the whole ass multiple stack buffer fill up at 3/min in order for the items to overflow to the second destination

[vapid gorge]

drones and trains are just funky manifolds. They'll fill up and overflow as needed even if you are, for some reason, incapable to send the right number of items you need with clocking

[unique cypress]

So you can put limiters on both and now both get what they need immediately

Sure, I'd never split one item into multiple destinations, but I could see someone doing that

[vapid gorge]

you can clock the machines to 'get what you need immediately'

[hushed kettle]

okay so, for each 2 blocks they're further apart the amount of items increases by 2

in case anyone was interested

[steel knot]

Yeah that works. But I have a case where I want to pluck 5 pipes off a bus and belt them a long way away. It’s nicer to valve it so that I don’t have a belt of 40 pipes sitting there.
Alternatively I could just clock a machine closer to the source to just make 5 for that use, but I added that on after I’d set up the steel pipe manifold

What I currently do is just ratio down using splitters and mergers

And I do believe in The Manifold. Just didn’t want the visual clutter of stale steel pipes

[sour hollow]

how much waste does a fully overclocked nuclear powerplant produce?

25p/m?

[wind spade]

which waste

[sour hollow]

uranium

[charred saffron]

Depends on the fuel type. Uranium is indeed 25 barrels per minute

[sour hollow]

alright thank you

[charred saffron]

Plutonium is only 2.5, and Ficsonium nothing

[unique cypress]

Waste isn't measured in points per meter 🤔

[charred saffron]

parts per meter probably xD

Or minute, might be even more useful 🤣

[unique cypress]

Well, p in game is points (in the sink)

[oblique hollow]

parts per mile

[charred saffron]

How many nuclear waste barrels can we fit in a mile?

[sour hollow]

me and my friends just use it to determine how much of that thing is getting made per minute, been saying that since the beginning so too late now to change 😭

[unique cypress]

Where do y'all even get this? I've seen this so many times but /min is the only correct abbreviation of "per minute". And yet people somehow made up like half a dozen incorrect ones

The game uses the correct one, too

[sour hollow]

I dont know, we just saw and started using it as a shortcut

at the start we didnt even account for how much things are being produced we had miners either overflowing terribly or not producing enough so we weren't smart with our decisions from the start

[ruby tulip]

/60s should also be correct.
but that's the only two I can think of.
well maybe /1/60h

[unique cypress]

x per 60 seconds is x/60 per second. So I don't think x/(60s) notation is allowed. It'd have to be x/60 1/s

[ruby tulip]

I'm pretty sure it's allowed.
5 per minute is the same as 5 per 60 seconds.

[knotty hornet]

All my homies use Hz to measure machine output rates

[unique cypress]

I've studied physics for 4 years and I've never seen it so I don't think so. The multiplier has to go into the number, not the unit.

Unless it's an actual SI multiplier and it's a letter, not a number

[knotty hornet]

Mk 1 belt? 1 Hz
Mk 2 belt? 2 Hz

Mk 3 belt? 4.5 hz
Mk 4 belt? 6 Hz
Mk 5 belt? 13 Hz
Mk 6 belt? 20 Hz

[ruby tulip]

that's the way to do it!

[knotty hornet]

(I was saying this so as to suggest it is a goofy method)

[cosmic bolt]

Ive also studied physics for 4 years and the notation I would use is x/60s^-1

[unique cypress]

I'm looking through the SI brochure rn 😂

[ruby tulip]

I'm looking on this from more of a math's point of view, and it shouldn't be wrong mathematically. you still wouldn't do this though.
and I also haven't studied it.

[knotty hornet]

The fun part is, if you leave it in the provided units of items/min, you don't have to convert anything, and everyone who plays this game will get it.

So it's extra work for no reason, to use anything else

[ruby tulip]

but please say /min when using it and not /m.
we are not measuring time in meters.

[cosmic bolt]

That is also true 🤣

[knotty hornet]

Yes, I agree

[cosmic bolt]

I wonder how many items per metre would work

[knotty hornet]

Each item has a size

[wind spade]

See also kMW vs GW

[cosmic bolt]

That made me recoil

[ruby tulip]

well items are spaced 2m apart I believe. so a mk1 belt has a speed of 120m/min or 2m/s

[unique cypress]

Just checked, it's explicitly disallowed. I always assumed it was, but nobody told me before

[cosmic bolt]

Helpful to know thank you

[muted tide]

I am struggling with planner for a nuclear power plant. If i follow the basic recipes I can only get 12 uranium fuel cells a minute from an impure node. Is this correct?

[unique cypress]

Fun fact: 1 k m, 1k m, and 1km are all incorrect. Only 1 km is correct

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, cuz the prefix attaches to the unit

And you never double up prefixes like that

[unique cypress]

Using commas as a thousands separator also isn't, interesting.

Rip amercians I guess

Only space is allowed

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, cuz other countries sometimes use commas as the decimal marker, not the grouping marker.

[analog meteor]

is it called "grouping" marker. i always wanted to know what you call those

[unique cypress]

Cobalt should see this lol

[knotty hornet]

When you see French people say €1.000.000,00 and you throw up a bit cuz there's a French person talking to you 🤢

[knotty hornet]

That's what i call it

[cosmic bolt]

Who's out here writing cc for cubic centimetres

[wind spade]

Oh I know (and said this many times)

[analog meteor]

what is the actual name,, if there is

[knotty hornet]

"CC" is commonly used in specific settings, so I'm okay with that. Same with "MPH." All others should be avoided.

[knotty hornet]

Medical professionals and mechanics

[ruby tulip]

I hate stuff like cc ore kph. it's just not how metric units work.

[analog meteor]

cant you call that a milliliter

[knotty hornet]

No

[ruby tulip]

especially when the abbreviation is the prefix and not the unit,

[analog meteor]

ic

[knotty hornet]

Not the same thing at all

[cosmic bolt]

Ahh, I studied Astrophysics so the smallest measurement I dealt with was lightyears/parsecs 😂😅

[analog meteor]

i thought they were

[cosmic bolt]

For water I would assume it's okay

[analog meteor]

schools useless

[knotty hornet]

A millimeter is 1/1000th of a meter, a length.
A cubic centimeter is a cube with sides of 1 cm, a volume.

[analog meteor]

i said milli liter

litre

[knotty hornet]

Oof,I read wrong 😭

[analog meteor]

are they the same?

[ruby tulip]

1ml is indeed 1 cm³

[knotty hornet]

A CC is a mL, yes

[analog meteor]

ok school isnt as useless as i thought

[ruby tulip]

no a cc is stupid.

[analog meteor]

mL is two letters so why dont we use that

[ruby tulip]

it's not how units and prefixes work.

[knotty hornet]

Because often times, volumes are easier to compute and think of as their cubic units

[analog meteor]

is it that muhc slower writing two diferent letters than writing two identical letters

[analog meteor]

hm

[ruby tulip]

you can easily tell from the prefix, that 1 000 000 cm³ fit in a m³
not so much with liters.

[knotty hornet]

I mean, if you know 1 m³ = 1 kL, then yeah you can

[cosmic bolt]

1000 millilitres is a litre though, and thats also easy to see with the prefix

[analog meteor]

cant 1000 mL fit in 1 L

[analog meteor]

or 1 L = 1 dm^3

are there dumb names for cubic decimeters

[knotty hornet]

All my homies use imperial.

63,360

Iykyk

[cosmic bolt]

5280 iykyk

[knotty hornet]

I like how we are all singing the praises of metric here because of its nice tens, while ignoring the fact the society collectively said "hell no" to the metric decimal time system.

[unique cypress]

In my head 4pm very often gets converted to 14:00

I hate the 12h clock

I can deal with 60s in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour and 24h in a day but having the same hour twice in one day is ass

[knotty hornet]

If you're gonna be subdividing, 12 is a good way to do it

Imagine we measured time with 0:00 at noon, PM times were positive, and AM times were negative. So 9 AM would be -3:00, cuz it's 3 hours before noon

[ruby tulip]

the thing is, that cc is used for displacement, where you measure the height and radius of the cylinder and calculate the volume from that, so you already use meters.

[wind spade]

Respectfully, fuck society for that

[quick gorge]

Fuck society for quite a few things but I digress

[dusky dust]

To be fair, 60's got much nicer divisors for human use than 100/10/etc, for time purposes

(By that logic all metric systems should be based around 60, I guess, but c'est la vie)

[hushed kettle]

the fact is you're much more likely to divide time than you are output

[wind spade]

Do we need to have so many divisions for time though?

[quick gorge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1o6qle7/i_present_to_you_the_belt_valve
Now; discuss or whatever

[unique cypress]

It was already posted and discussed yesterday

[quick gorge]

I didn't see much discussion

[ruby tulip]

how is 30 nicer than 50?
and 15 nicer than 25?

[dusky dust]

Basically for the various techy reasons given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_(number)#In_mathematics

I mean sure, in the end it's all relatively arbitrary, and maybe in an alternate timeline we'd've landed on a different timekeeping method. The extreme divisibility of using 60 as a base is, IMO, quite useful, though.

[verbal oar]

Is it better to overclock 4 miners slightly or one miner moderately (going from 480 to 540 per minute between 4 mk2 miners on normal nodes)

[dusky dust]

Oh, oops, missed this. :D I dunno, I feel like I often do. I'm sure if we'd landed on something other than 60 I'd be equally used to whatever that ended up being, so it could just be my human brain justifying things post hoc, as we're all prone to do. :D

[verbal oar]

Scratch this, I just realized there's an impure node nearby that I can just bus into the project

[dusky dust]

Though you've gotta admit that "4th superior highly composite number" and "4th colossally abundant number" sounds nifty, at least. :P

[grim crane]

Guys its done finally!

it will need a lot of time to fully spool up..
its like 200 gigantic manifolds 💀

close enough

And a little lift for easy check of belt througput

[grim crane]

Im now producing more plutonium fuel rods than Nuclear fuel rods 💀

Ficsonium will be fun..

[wind spade]

Yeah that's basically my point - the same way americans are used to freedom units and they make sense in their heads, there's really not much reason to split hours or minutes to arbitrary parts

[vapid gorge]

Because it’s dumb

[vapid gorge]

In either case, power is so free , abundant and easy to make, the difference in power consumption from your original question would effectively make no difference

[quick gorge]

Helpful

[opaque relic]

I didnt see an post about this. I think its really good when starting up your oil refinerys to just keep flushing the Heavy oil residue away. Yes its good for fuel but not everything can be done that quick. But if you like that idea thats what I thought of fluid buffers both offering the same idea.

Fluid buffers placed in a long chain ensure that plastic and rubber making can be done at every speed desirable. With the rest product either stored up untill use or stored up to manually flush. How much fluid buffers you need just depends on how long it takes till you collect some stuff up.

While making a nice factory its nice as beginner if you havent had enough of everytjing yet to already start making some of your endproducts. Overclocking to get more resources and the rest stored up in buffers. Flush or re-use I think its an unappreciated tool as you start up your favtory. Basicly the Awesome Sink level of flushing away

How long it takes till you collect some stuff up.... and flush the network

[patent lance]

has anyone done the math on how much power you can get out of nuclear if you fully utilize and overclock every uranium node?

I'm trying to do some napkin math here and getting a bit lost in the ratios

[vapid gorge]

just clock your machines to send items where they need to go? All these issues were 'solved' as soon as clocking existed

[vapid gorge]

I only put in the effort something is worthy of. Congrats, they invented a method of multi hoop jumping system for something that was easily accomplished before

I'll award the same amount of awe for the belt valve as I did for the musk single car underground tunnel

[dusky bronze]

without slooping i believe its 630GW

i think its technically 625 but what is 5GW at that level

[vapid gorge]

more power than you'll realistically need or use essentially

[dusky bronze]

yes

[patent lance]

my buddy and I are trying to use every node on the map, so we'll need every bit of power we can get

[dusky bronze]

and it is very easy to get a terrawatt with a handful of augmenters

[fringe seal]

the loop is exactly 10 items long, so one added [dummy item] decreases throughput by 10%, makes sense

[patent lance]

I'm currently trying to convince him that it doesn't make sense to divert all of the sulfur to leached recipes rather than using some of it for nuclear power and other uses

[dusky bronze]

if you're gonna use leached recipes do nuclear first

i dont remember exactly how much sulphur it is but its 2-3k for a nuclear plant on that scale

[patent lance]

which is what I told him, but he's on about how the leached recipes give a higher output/min which lets you get more output of a machine that fits into a blueprint designer

[dusky bronze]

although tbf that will be basically all you're using sulphur for

[dusky bronze]

they do but is the sulphur worth it

[vapid gorge]

look.
It's nice to have a goal, but unless you're using a university super computer, it'll catch on fire

I'm not even kidding. Even before 1.0, you couldn't realisitcally process all hte map materials to the end before your computer exploded and there's 50% more resources pm on the map now

[dusky dust]

I disagree about that being a good solution, btw. There's generally no reason to put your factories on a timer like that -- we get questions all the time from folks who are doing the send-HOR-to-a-fluid-buffer thing and are tired of flushing it, and haven't realized that there's far better ways to do it. The easiest thing to do at early oil, before you've got anything else unlocked, is just convert all the HOR to Petroleum Coke and then send those to the sink

[vapid gorge]

even using 1/2 of the world's resources will put a huge crimp on very good computers.
the nodes are there to give you options and flexibility on where and how you build

[dusky dust]

A slightly-more-advanced version would be to instead send the Petroleum Coke to some coal-powered generators, though I admit that's a bit more complicated

[dusky bronze]

probably best just to go with pure recipes because you will always have more water than sulphur

[fringe seal]

hasn't there been attempts to max out awesome points / min

[patent lance]

https://tenor.com/view/starwarsday-gif-5413758

we go until my graphics card melts, then we downsize

[vapid gorge]

yeah leached is a very niche recipe. They probably just added it as an option to 'sink' waste acid, like you can with waste water.
it really shouldn't be the main ore processing system you have cause you won't get much ore processed that way

[vapid gorge]

oh I'm sure.
And I've seen someone have a frames per minute game trying to do 100 nuclear pasta pm

[patent lance]

it is the belts or the machines themselves that start to brick the game when you try and do that?

or just a pure calculations/min thing

[dusky bronze]

belts and calculations

[vapid gorge]

it's everything.
some things impact the game more. Like tons of floating platforms signs and things, but ... it gets very rough.
if you're fine with setting a goal that is impossible and just somethign to work on? yeah sure use 'all the resources on the map'

if you want something that's actually possible but still very hard? aim for half

[patent lance]

tbh it's more about making the train network that connects it all than the end factory itself

though that's still a large goal, I doubt we'd be able to use it all anyway with how ratios of material requirements work out

so it's more about "having access to" all the resources than effectively using them I guess

[vapid gorge]

You especially don't want to bring all the resources to one spot

[vapid gorge]

ratios are mostly meaningless, there's so many alt recipes that change what items need what, and with clocking machines? yeah. Even if you ignore conversion recipes bottlenecks aren't a huge problem

[unique cypress]

Nah, it is 630 exactly. And that's just from uranium rods

[unique cypress]

630 GW from just uranium, 1.19 TW from uranium and plutonium, 1.47 TW from uranium, plutonium and ficsonium

[crimson moat]

I believe it's predominantly the amount of machines within a sphere of X radius around the player client

a bunch of nested spheres technically 😛

[knotty hornet]

Yes yes, volumes are just stacked surfaces...

[opaque relic]

I disagree. As I said the player doesnt have enough items to get his whole refinery going but wants some start items. Building refineries to convert HOR to Petroleum Coke is wasting refineries that can be spent on making end product in my eyes

Its not a good solution but temporary, it's better

[oblique hollow]

In the long run they should get those materials to set up to get the process running continuously.
The earliest step where you can get a "useful end product" from HOR is either Coke for Coal gen power or fuel for fuel generators

[frosty owl]

That seems possibly handy only when one is lacking the items needed to build something even remotely "proper" (ie: with HOR disposal).
Like if they finally got to the oil spot and the items to make that one more refinery are half the map away...

[crimson moat]

Struggling a bit with a perfect octogon of limited size, any tips?

I aimed these with a beam

[vapid gorge]

You can disagree but you’re also wrong . Refinery items, like all items are free as they should automated

Even if they aren’t building a couple extra refineries to manage some coke is literally nothing

If you can’t manage that with the barest effort you have other problems to work on

[crimson moat]

this might be good enough. This comes from a beam built 1m towards the center of the building, and ctrl-nudging

[vapid gorge]

By products are one of the few logistical issues to manage on game

[opaque relic]

Thank you for explaining it this way

[vapid gorge]

@shrewd yew

yeahit's an incomplete loop

[shrewd yew]

i had a loop previously, going from the star of the fuel gens to the end, did not work

[vapid gorge]

build it like this

and have 1 pipe feeding the top of the loop

feeding the middle like that won't help and I think make it worse, plus youve got elevation changes making it a bit janky

[opaque relic]

The copyright text lmao

[vapid gorge]

someone took it and gave me credit. It's now the funnier version

[shrewd yew]

oooh, i see what might be the issue, i will try and see if i add a splitter before the first splitter for the network

[vapid gorge]

that can help too yes

[shrewd yew]

which was in the aforementioned setup

[shrewd yew]

only a pipes worth of elevation atleast

[vapid gorge]

it's any change in elevation along a manifold

I once was helping someone trouble shoot their fuel station and could NOT figure it out. I had to get teh save file from him and when I went into the world I found out that a few of the gens on one side of hte manifodl were 0.5m higher up than the input junctions. Flattened them out, everything worked a charm

[shrewd yew]

hmmmmm, the pipe network outside of the loop pipe i set up is perfectly even, will have it run for a bit and see if there are dips

i still need this troublesome thing before i manage to setup a drone system to manufacture the nuclear stuff, or hopefully manage to do it in one location

[vapid gorge]

also you'll want to prefill the system. down cloc ka few gens to 50% and let everything is full

[shrewd yew]

yeahp i ran with only half on for a bit before tturning the rest of em on one by one

been stable for a few mins now

[vapid gorge]

don't worry about turning off, even clocked a t50% it fills fast

also good practice because only generators accept items while off

refineries and things when you fix them up will have to be downclocked

[ruby tulip]

build a beam from one side, and nudge a foundation in place. then do the same from the other side.

the corners should align perfectly, only downsides are potential z-fighting and it wont be a 100% perfect oktagon.

but a perfect oktagon wont really be possible, as you`d need irational numbers for alingment, if im not mistaking.

[knotty hornet]

Nah, you could do an octagon. We can get sqrt(2) and 45° angles easily enough.

[ruby tulip]

how can you achieve sqrt(2)?

[knotty hornet]

Use the diagonal of a foundation.

BTW, yes I know sqrt(2) is irrational so you can'tget it hyper-precisely, but if you can get 1.414 m, that is effectively, for all intents and purposes, sqrt(2)

[crimson moat]

It's visibly noticably wrong

but pretty close

[knotty hornet]

How many digits of precision do you get in freeform mode for beams?

[crimson moat]

It just goes to the nearest meter

[knotty hornet]

Ah what

Horse shit

[crimson moat]

I mean, you can make that almost arbitrarily accurate by pointing it at something 2 kilometers away

but it's a bit awkward yeah 😛 bad accuracy on small distance.

[knotty hornet]

Never mind then, I thought it gave you more precision than that

Just make it big enough that it's not noticeable 😭

[crimson moat]

another issue i've had is that the angled sides are like 5.6 foundations long

[knotty hornet]

1.4 × 4

[unique cypress]

then you didn't space out the straight ones correctly

[knotty hornet]

So your straight edges are 4 foundation long?

[crimson moat]

my thing is just the wrong shape 😄 (which explains a lot)

[knotty hornet]

Ah geez

[crimson moat]

Maybe i should do hexagon

sounds easier

[unique cypress]

no it does not lol

[knotty hornet]

That'll be harder i imagine lol

[crimson moat]

🤔

[knotty hornet]

Sqrt(2) is at least fundamental to squares, sqrt(3) is not

[unique cypress]

the sides in an octagon are (1+sqrt(2))*a apart

where a is the length of the edge

[knotty hornet]

I think the easiest way to frame it out is to choose a fixed center point, then extend out at all 8 angles (each 45°) for the same length

Then you have your vertices, and you can connect em one by one.

[crimson moat]

Thanks

[knotty hornet]

I guess you could do that for any regular polygon if you can get the wedge angles correctly, even a hexagon if you can get 60°

[crimson moat]

This is what happens when i do that

[knotty hornet]

Hmmmm

[crimson moat]

I am actually failing geometry hard lol

I can nudge here, which is very close

but it's off by like 5 centimeters

[knotty hornet]

That's a lot better, and you can smooth the corner over with a beam or something

[ruby tulip]

how about building it corner to corner?

[crimson moat]

hm?

[ruby tulip]

build one side, built the corner, repeat, until you have all sides

it will only align with the foundations below one the first side, but it should be a perfect octagon.

[crimson moat]

i don't understand what corner you mean

got this atm

this is as close as i've got with beams/nudging

which is not very good, because on the other side it comes out like this

[dusky dust]

Gotta build from each corner and let them clip somewhere in the middle (along the straightaways)

You want the corners to be precise, and then hide the clipping as best as possible with the material selection (and/or micronudging via mods)

[crimson moat]

you mean here?

[dusky dust]

Yeah, you'd want to get the "clean" junction right at the points/verticies, and then build inward along the edges

[crimson moat]

That's what i'm trying to build

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, start with the corners in place and let the clip happen near the midpoint of each edge

[crimson moat]

and failing

you're all saying start with the part that i'm trying to start with and not able to build 😄

[knotty hornet]

Oof

Can foundations snap to beams?

[crimson moat]

I think the game just might not work. I can't make a 22.5 degree angle.

I can make 30 degree angles fine.

[dusky dust]

Oh, thought you'd already done a clean vertex on the "other end" and were just extending it downward (and having it not match up)

[crimson moat]

nope just trying to get started

[ruby tulip]

thats what i meant

[crimson moat]

snap point is wrong for the 45 degree arms

but probably fixed if i delete foundations under

i still can't make it properly

Any nudging while the foundation is not facing N/E/S/W nudges it the wrong distance

Ok, it's just mathematically impossible to make an octagon of this size

if i make it a bit smaller or bigger it can work perfectly

but this size just does not line up with the grid

[knotty hornet]

Infinite nudge for smaller increments?

[crimson moat]

not using mods, will some other time

[knotty hornet]

Fair

[crimson moat]

should be able to do this now

Man this is annoying. I'm moving to cubeworld

okay i've got it pretty close with a series of maneuvers

and arcane arts of beam nudging

using a beam to place another beam to place a foundation which is nudged 1 meter diagonally

and when you have the right size octagon it mostly works

💀

ty 💖

[knotty hornet]

Nice, and you can use beam connectors or something to smooth the corners out

[crimson moat]

YE

[dusky dust]

"... it's beams all the way down"

[verbal oar]

What's the consensus on Limestone-addative recipies. I feel like I slept on them until my current playthrough and the random limestone nodes near my factories are just giving a nice little boost in output

[knotty hornet]

Which ones are you referring to?

[verbal oar]

Molded Steels, Cheap Silica, Basic Iron Ingot, I think there's more but I haven't used those yet

[knotty hornet]

The molded steel stuff is excellent

Cheap Silica, eh. I use the Purification process with Nitric. Cheap is good early on before you have that

Basic Iron, yuck

[unique cypress]

Entirely depends on whether it's easier for me to get limestone or more of the item it'd save on

[verbal oar]

Elaborate, double iron yield for a little extra power and limestone that's not being used for anything else seems pretty nice

[knotty hornet]

Pure iron is basically double and uses just water.

[verbal oar]

That's a good point, there's no water near me though

I feel like piping it in would be a hassle for this area

[knotty hornet]

Leached is double for a bit of extra sulfur and refinery work.

Yeah, it does ultimately come down to what is available nearby

[unique cypress]

Great, instead of 10 ore for 10 ingots, I have to spend 5 ore and 8 limestone (13 total). That's just straight up worse imo

[knotty hornet]

Usually moving solids to the water is the better option. But if the limestone is just sitting there either way

[verbal oar]

I was a big fan of leached in my last run

[verbal oar]

I don't respect this limestone node enough to call it a resource, it's 5+negligible hehe

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, 1 sulfur, 1 water, and some pipe work to double instead of 8 limestone.

[verbal oar]

Anyways, back to the grind, thanks for the info

[unique cypress]

Ah, yes, 8000 limestone is really negligible compared to 400 extra iron and 3000 water

[verbal oar]

I'm not sourcing in limestone to match the production, I'm using as much limestone as the nearby node can produce and sending the rest of the iron ore to processing in a different manner

[opaque relic]

Whats the best way to invest your mercer spheres in dimensional depot, is that stack size or upload speed? (best as in most common used)

[dusky dust]

Both! What folks prioritize while doing upgrades seems to vary quite a bit, person to person

(Nearly always in this game, the answer is "whatever you want." :)

Or perhaps addressing an unspoken concern: there are ~300 spheres on the map, and all the upgrades in the MAM take ~100 to complete, leaving you with ~200 to use on Depots. If you collect all spheres, you'll struggle to use them all even with a fully-upgraded MAM tree

[opaque relic]

Okay, but what to begin with

I tend not to build big factories yet

As I want to wait untill I have enough items like all the beams and all.

[dusky dust]

I dunno, do you want more to be available right away, or do you want it to replenish faster?

Nobody but you can answer that

[opaque relic]

Okay thanks

[dusky dust]

I tend to prioritize upload speed, but I know plenty of other people priorize stack count. 🤷

[opaque relic]

And inventory uploading is a must right away right?

[dusky dust]

There's a ton of stuff in the game where folks ask what the "best" way is to do things, and there's very rarely an objective answer to it

You're gonna have to just get used to making your own decisions about stuff like that. :)

[opaque relic]

Just like tons of new information at one time

Its like my second job fr

[dusky dust]

Heh, it's a lot for sure. :)

Fortunately there's no in-game pressure of any sort once you're through biomass, so remember you can always take stuff at whatever pace you want!

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, definitely inventory upload first, then i just do them mostly evenly between speed and stack count.

[deft summit]

This is actually so true
The more you play this game the more you realize that almost always the solution for a problem is entirely up to you

Sure you could build a megafactory to make 40 versatile frameworks a minute but you could also just make a small plant and sure it'll take ten times longer to make the project parts but there's no time limit!

[ruby tulip]

i just remembered another way, this should be possible without nudging.
make sure to start the diagonal beam from the foundation. place a 4 meter long beam 4 meters away from the foundation in a 90 degree angle. and place a foundation at the and of that.

i hope you understand what i mean, im currently not at the pc @crimson moat

[crimson moat]

I will try it, ty 😄

[ruby tulip]

oh and i have a typo in foundation😅

I remembered this trick from pre u8 times.

I'm not sure if that works but I think it could also be possible to place a temporary foundation on the end of the diagonal beam first, and then nudge a second foundation to the correct place, starting from the first one. @crimson moat

[steel knot]

does one output of the industrial storage have priority over the other? i seem to recall they don't exactly split 1:1

[knotty hornet]

I think bottom gets priority

[dusky dust]

The one with priority will randomize with each load of the save; can't rely on one or the other

[unique cypress]

If you want equal priority, just use a balancer

[knotty hornet]

This i did not know or notice.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it's a weird 'un

[mystic hollow]

i think i made a manifold correctly and if so how would i continue this into constructors and then assemblers?

[vapid gorge]

yup

[mystic hollow]

would i do the same again but with contructors?

[vapid gorge]

yup, manifolds work everywhere

[mystic hollow]

ok i see

a lot less complicated when i looked up a video

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, but you might not need manifolding at all. Like if you're doing plates, you can just smelt 30/min and feed it directly into the constructor

[vapid gorge]

all you have to do is a bit of basic maths

send the right parts per min to the place you need , wit ha fast enough belt

[mystic hollow]

this look fine for contructors?

[vapid gorge]

if the constructors are getting enough? sure

[steel acorn]

depends, are the belts able to handle the amount on the resources they're taking in?

[mystic hollow]

look fine to me

they are moving by quickly

but the issues start when i start adding assemblers

which i could alleviate the issue by making a 2nd one of the other side for stuff like rotors and smart plating

[vapid gorge]

are you doing the math?

[mystic hollow]

is it the same for smelters? 60, 30, 15?

[vapid gorge]

no? each recipe is different

[mystic hollow]

or whatever it was

[vapid gorge]

look at the recipes and machines they tell you all the info you need

you also have your codex that shows your recipes

how much iron are you making and are you just trying to make smart plating?

120? if so https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=RTm70BckXLm3kkg7ALJJ

[mystic hollow]

rotors, smart plating, modular frames and rotors

i need plates for 2 for the 4

[vapid gorge]

at this poitn I would focus on one thing at a time, you seem to be having a rough time planning

did you look at the link I sent?

[mystic hollow]

i will now though

[vapid gorge]

You'll want to research 'clocking' in the MAM

it'll help you a lot

[mystic hollow]

like overclocking?

[vapid gorge]

yes but you can under clock and it doesn't cost you shards

clocking makes ratios pointless sa you can set them up however you like

[mystic hollow]

i have overclocking researched

[vapid gorge]

oh and when the plan says something like 4.903 constructors for rods?

that's just the same as 490.3% clocking of machine

spread however you like

[mystic hollow]

why would i want to underclock something?

[unique cypress]

you don't have to

[vapid gorge]

so it doesn't take up shards? probably a bit easier to manage too if you're having difficulty with the basics. Easier to learn

[unique cypress]

some people say it's useful. I don't bother

[vapid gorge]

fewer things to keep track of

[mystic hollow]

this is all i got rn. doing the math for assemblers is gonna be a pain

[vapid gorge]

you could just use the planner I sent you

it's not hard to learn

and does all the math

[mystic hollow]

i am quite a idiot when it comes to learning stuff

[vapid gorge]

this is pretty simple

[mystic hollow]

but idk how to put whats on the planner in my actual line

from what i already have down

[vapid gorge]

well looking at it you'll need to change your constructors a bit after your 4 smelters

but that's not hard

[mystic hollow]

change what about them

[vapid gorge]

490.3% clocking for rods , 154.8% clocking for hte plates

[mystic hollow]

how did you get 490.3%

[vapid gorge]

so you could have 4x100% + 1x 90.3% machines for rods, and then after it 1x100% + 1x54.8% for plates

[vapid gorge]

oh and when the plan says something like 4.903 constructors for rods?

that's just the same as 490.3% clocking of machine

1 machine = 100%
so
4.903 machines = 409.3%

just multiply by 100

[mystic hollow]

so i should make more constructors next to the ones i have down?

[vapid gorge]

if you're following the plan? sure

[mystic hollow]

but that'll mess up the item flow

[vapid gorge]

.. how?

[mystic hollow]

more splitters to put down

[vapid gorge]

and?

[mystic hollow]

the last will maybe get like 1-2 ingot every few seconds

[hushed kettle]

uses exponentially less power

[vapid gorge]

not if you're making 120 ingots

[hushed kettle]

just like overclocking takes exponentially more

[unique cypress]

Insignificantly less, unless you build several times more than you would at 100%

[vapid gorge]

to be fair the costs differences are minimal to the point of nothing

[vapid gorge]

so you've done the first step with smelters, do the next step now

[mystic hollow]

i don't have enough room for all like 12 constructors

god i am tired

[vapid gorge]

go sleep. you don't need 12 more constructors for this step

[mystic hollow]

i want to get this to work for once

[vapid gorge]

and you can always build in multiple floors

[mystic hollow]

idk how to really make that work

[vapid gorge]

make ramps, put down foundations above the machines

or use a ladder if you've bought that from the awesome shop

[mystic hollow]

i could use elevators

[vapid gorge]

if you have them unlocked ? I didn't think yo uwere that far up the tiers

[mystic hollow]

i have mk3s

with the floor holes

[vapid gorge]

fair.

[unique cypress]

Oh, lifts. Those are different from elevators in this game XD

[mystic hollow]

i should've just said lifts

[unique cypress]

Lifts are for items, elevators are for players

[vapid gorge]

ah I meant more for you going up and down but lifts will help yes

[hushed kettle]

i also like them more because they allow you to not have machines constantly turning on and off

so you can check if everything is going efficiently by looking at the power grid

[mystic hollow]

i do have the ladder

[vapid gorge]

then a second floor would be easy 🙂

or 3rd or 4th

[mystic hollow]

idk if im that smart to make a 3 or 4 story factory

[vapid gorge]

put down a floor/roof, send a lift up

[unique cypress]

That is more of an aesthetic choice than a practical one. I only bother with 100% uptime on the machines producing the final output. Everything else is whatever

[vapid gorge]

not anymore complicated than this

[mystic hollow]

what i meant by lack of room

far left is one foundation away from the wall

[vapid gorge]

eh you can fit a bunch more there but a 2nd floor would also be fine

[mystic hollow]

idk if you can connect a lift to a floor hole

nvm i am dumb

[unique cypress]

I don't think you can feed 9 constructors with 4 smelters?

[mystic hollow]

should i make like 4 more?

[unique cypress]

Unless you're making iron wire or cast screws I guess

[unique cypress]

Depends what you're making and how much

[mystic hollow]

iron stuff from reinforced plates to rotors

of what i can make rn

[vapid gorge]

this is what they are going off of rn

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=RTm70BckXLm3kkg7ALJJ

[unique cypress]

Then that's 7 smelters, not 9

Also, because there's only one output, you don't need to change the clock speed at all

It'll work just as well when everything is at 100%

[fringe seal]

anything I should be wary of if I am attempting a max throughput sushi belt?

[unique cypress]

Yeah, it needs to have the exact amount of each item and can never stop

[vapid gorge]

Have an overflow sink at the end

[fringe seal]

I realized that it has a built-in pressure relief valve

so it'd be fine, probably??

context is the plubber recycling loop, 8x refineries @ 250%

[unique cypress]

Why would you do sushi for that XD

[fringe seal]

that exactly adds up to 1200 items in the output side

and it needs pressure relief at the end anyways

[mystic hollow]

it's working quite well

i must build higher to maximize production lol

[frosty owl]

Just the usual sushi care, plus some room for throughput issues, which are unlikely to really cause any serious issue (ie: the system may struggle keeping up mylax throughput)

[ruby tulip]

is there a way of constructing the square root of 2 with beams?

[unique cypress]

The diagonal of a square of side x is length x√2

[ruby tulip]

why didn't I think of this

with that we also should be able to make a perfect 22.5°

[gleaming shuttle]

I started a fresh save for giving 1.0 a try after a long hiatus and wanted to speed my thinking up by using one of those factory calculators (just to make some screws). It's not working at 100% efficiency in-game so I wanted to drop by and ask what the problem could be? I'm guessing it's the way the splitters distribute the rods that causes trouble since the two "edge-constructors" at the end don't seem to get enough rods while the middle one gets a surplus :(

[vapid gorge]

you've probably either made a small error in your set up or you haven't waited long enough for manifolds to fill up

[gleaming shuttle]

omg

[unique cypress]

That's probably because this website has a godawful calculator that doesn't work correctly

[vapid gorge]

also, if you're going ot use that calculator don't use realistic view

it'll tell you stupid layouts

[unique cypress]

Just don't use it in general

[gleaming shuttle]

lmao 😭
I usually don't rely on the calcs, I like my spaghetti and frustration. But I got frustrated now that I finally gave it a shot and the results weren't... Satisfactory, so to speak

[unique cypress]

Just use literally any other calculator

This is the only horrible one

[vapid gorge]

I recommend this tool. takes a bit of practice but is the best https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[vapid gorge]

I mean, like I said you probalby just made a small mistake

[gleaming shuttle]

Oooo, nice! I did check out the "satisfactory modeler" one available on steam as well

[vapid gorge]

eh, modeler is more of a layout program rather than planner
it's extremely manual and... the info it gives is pretty garbage

probably faster doing layouts on paper too the way it's UI works

[unique cypress]

That one's decent too but you kinda have to know what you want to do beforehand. It won't help you much if you don't

[gleaming shuttle]

I went over it a few times and compared the in-game one to the site before dumping it here to make sure I didn't just miss anything 🥲

[vapid gorge]

if you look at the machines what's the actual issue? are machiens starving?

[gleaming shuttle]

yepp the two on the outer edges at the end are at 75%, but as you said, once the middle one fills up the other two will start getting more. A case of me being impatient I'm afraid

[unique cypress]

It's an extremely dumb layout, but it should at least work after the middle screw constructor fills with rods

[vapid gorge]

ok follow the belt backwards, are the machines producing those items getting clogged in their outputS?

check each machine

[gleaming shuttle]

Filled everything up and waited a while to see that the inputs were able to hold themselves together. All seems well now, thanks for the help and insights! <3

[vapid gorge]

manifolds just take a while 🙂

especially if screws or wire are involved

[verbal oar]

Would someone be willing to explain overclocking power generators to me? Is it worth, if so in what situations?

[wind spade]

you clock a gen to 250%, the gen produces 250% power

it's worth if you want to save space and/or materials for gens at the cost of using power shards

[verbal oar]

Is it worth the slight increase in fuel cost

for just increasing a grid over making a new plant

[outer vale]

what "slight increase", overclocking gens is linear

250% OC gen needs 250% of the base input and makes 250% of the power

[unique cypress]

There's no increase in fuel cost per MW. 2.5x power production, 2.5x fuel consumption

[verbal oar]

omgosh

very wurf

[wind spade]

there's not really any increase. You always get same amount of power per piece of fuel. And always did

I wouldn't personally say it's worth to clock them, but "worth" is always subjective to the individual 🙂

[verbal oar]

I hadn't overclocked my power plants so I thought they operated under the same logic as overclocking machinery where the power cost bumps to like 225% for

[wind spade]

well since gens do not cost any power to run... 🙂

225% of 0 is still 0

[knotty hornet]

tEcHnIcAlLy... 🤓 it costs power to run the machines making the fuel to run the generators

but yes, the process is supposed to be net positive

[ruby tulip]

but those are clocked individually from the generators themselves🤓

so it isn't directly relevant for this.

[sharp kettle]

What do we think?

26 or 25?, id go with 26

[unique cypress]

I'd go with 27, 28 or 30, depending on whether I want something divisible by 3, 4 or 5

[vapid gorge]

you need 2506.7% clocking spread however you like 😛 you could go with 11 if you wated

[sonic jasper]

Ive got 4 manufacturers giving me 10 computers (each are 2.5/min). I want to split this so that 4 computers go one way and 6 computers go one way. Is this possible without changing the output/min?

is that how smart splitters work? ive never seen a ratio change in them

[dusky bronze]

if you just use a splitter things will eventually even out, if not then just overclock the machines so that they make 4 and 6 and then send those 2 groups off however

[dusky bronze]

no, you can only set them to split certain items or do things like have an overflow belt

and the other kind of splitter that i forget the name of is the exact same thing except i think you can have multiple items per exit

[sonic jasper]

word, thanks

[vapid gorge]

the othe rmethod is clock 2 groups of machines. 1 group making 6 one group making 4.

clocking is your most powerful logistical tool in the game 🙂

[sonic jasper]

thats what i did. just didnt wanna have a slight imbalance if i could prevent it

[vapid gorge]

well as mentioned it'll self balance even if you don't reclock to two groups.

the 2 different options probably work a bit better depending on your situation. Like if some of them were being set to storage or a train that would take forever to balance out, I'd use the clocking method rather than just waiting for hte split to even out

[deft summit]

power is limited
building materials are not as limited
space is virtually unlimited

[vapid gorge]

power is, effectively, unlimited. It's very easy to set up and you can make more than you'll ever need

[sonic jasper]

how come sometimes even when i have perfect ratios of something for example, I am producing 120 coal and consuming 120 coal, I still end up with excess?

[vapid gorge]

a small mistake in the system is pretty common
or the next step of processing doesn't use everything up

[sonic jasper]

how would i recognize a mistake like that? i can send a SS if u want

or if u wanna call i can screenshare

[vapid gorge]

mostly you follow the problem backwards. An overhead ss might help but it might be simpler to skill up your trouble shooting 🙂

so first, machines using this resource. Check their outputs by clicking on them, are they stalling because their outputs are full? or are they flowing free?

[sonic jasper]

nevermind I somehow just missed that i didnt underclock 2 things

[vapid gorge]

xD yup small mistake gets you 🙂

[fringe seal]

this is why I hate fluids

otherwise nearly identical lines
only the second line lags

make it make sense

[vapid gorge]

it looks like you're close to your 10m headlift limit on machines so could be an edge case issues. There's also a bug that gives you free headlift some times

[fringe seal]

actually could be

[vapid gorge]

you're also not feeding the inputs with loops.

which if you're got high flow that could be an issue

[fringe seal]

it's mk1, what could go wrong

not ok

ok

[vapid gorge]

yeah was just looking at that, less likely at that point, but you're still kinda feeding machines from below. I'd at least put a pump on the main line first to get it past the 10m hump, then flood the whole system by down clocking a few consumers to like 50%

see if that settles it

[vapid gorge]

also if you're placing pumps directly on pipes, rebuild the pipe connections. It sometimes makes it a bit weird flow wise

personally, my motto when it comes to headlift is give yourself 5m leeway. I put the mk2s every 45m up. reduces the amount of mistakes I make and avoids edge cases
if something looks like it's pushing it a bit? another pump lower down

they cost basically nothing to place and to run and its worth nothing having to back and forth trouble shooting them

[fringe seal]

drastically changed the pump locations
time to wait, I guess

[ruby tulip]

you could also build a balancer. but thats most of the tome more complicated.

[knotty hornet]

Fluids are so much easier when you let them flow down to the consuming machines.

But that pipe work looks pretty dang clean 😎

[fringe seal]

I can't just build 500m tall tower, unfortunately
though this time it's overfeeding, mostly
also thanks

[ruby tulip]

something like this.

[fringe seal]

if nothing works then I just OC the entire petrochem section @ 240% (instead of 250%) since there are plenty of leftovers

[modest ridge]

What is that thing? (the thing in the blue circle)

[knotty hornet]

Tells you which hotbar you have active (press left alt and roll mouse wheel to select up to 10 different ones)

Also, you can save just one type of belt or lift or block (merger, splitter, etc) on the hotbar and quick switch between them by pressing E (or hold for a radial select menu)

[marble cypress]

Has anyone tried making a head-lift reset priority merger using a really tall pipe instead of a buffer?

[sonic jasper]

a balancer cant get from 10 to 6 and 4. but I already solved my issue anyway

[modest ridge]

oh

oky yhx

[wind spade]

It very much can

[knotty hornet]

Not as drawn

[fringe seal]

the diagram is correct in such low throughput situation

[knotty hornet]

How?

It's close but not exact.

[fringe seal]

top merger - receives 2 from the splitter on the right, 10 from input
then it is exact...??

[knotty hornet]

It wouldn't receive two though

It'd receive 5/3

[ruby tulip]

it's a 1:12 with 2 seeing looped back.

[fringe seal]

then you recalculate the entire line with 10 5/3, then you recalculate the .........
it's infinite series

[ruby tulip]

so it should be 4:6

that's how ratio balancers work.

[fringe seal]

checking if it is correct is easier though
the right output is 4, so the right splitter should receive 6 (feedback 2)
matches with the left output being 6
and the arrow coming out from the merger should be 12, which is also correct (input 10, feedback 2)
consistent, so the entire balancer is correct

[knotty hornet]

I see it now

My dumbass wasn't thinking about the infinite series

[orchid brook]

use this one

[umbral plover]

Ooh which recipe is that

[orchid brook]

nitro rocket fuel

[umbral plover]

I should probably start using that app instead of Satisfactory Tools huh

[orchid brook]

yes it uses more nitrogen but wayy simpler and more effecient

[orchid brook]

its satisfactory moddler

tools does the work for you but personaly i dont like it

[umbral plover]

I’ve been having loading issues with google lately so I might start using modeler

[wind spade]

Tools have nothing to do with google

[orchid brook]

okay

[umbral plover]

Tools is on the browser and I’m having google issues?

[wind spade]

They are each made for different purpose

[vapid gorge]

why? it's much faster than modeler

and modeler is.. a layout tool at best

and not a very good one

[wind spade]

Browser is "chrome", and there are multiple browsers

[orchid brook]

its depends on what u want like tools chooses the "best recipes" and modler lets u chose the recipe yourself. IDK why it has so much hate

[vapid gorge]

you don't know how to use tools then. check which recipes you want to use.

literally nothing forces you to use recipes you don't want.

in fact the best way, imo, to use tools is to just swap recipes in and out to see the changes

like, if you're just ticking everything and then getting sad it doesn't pick what recipes you want it to, thats nuts.

[wind spade]

Tools choose from a set you give it. You can change it to recipes you want

[umbral plover]

Yeah just tried to lay out Rocket fuel on modeler I MUCH prefer tools

[orchid brook]

i didnt mean that like what i mean is for example in my HMF factory i wanted to use allumunum beams only for one part and the other just use normal steal and tools doesnt let u check what uses what

in other news dont get too happy too fast

dang it

why is it 90%

fuel is fine

nitrogen too

[wind spade]

Tools can do it in seconds, modeller takes longer

[wind spade]

You can split it into multiple tabs

[orchid brook]

sulpher is the problem yeppie solved

[orchid brook]

can we stop the argument. like i know there is a solution for my problems but it wont change anything everyone has there own favoruits

SOLVED

[umbral plover]

90% what

[orchid brook]

like how much % of the time the machien in on

[umbral plover]

I didn’t know that was a statistic tbh TwT

[orchid brook]

like if the number is not 100% then there is something wrong

and tbh so i dont lie i dont know if that is the excatct thing

but what i know it has to be 100%

finnaly a clean graph

[unique cypress]

Only if you designed them to all be at 100% uptime. Plenty of my machines don't run at 100% but they run at whatever I wanted them to run to it's all gucci

[orchid brook]

ya uptime and yes the should be 100%

and they are now

[vapid gorge]

you shouldn't trust the efficiency meter on machines. They are often unreliable in any case

[oblique hollow]

Easiest tell here is the fact that the output of rocket fuel is backing up

That one is the problem site

[orchid brook]

its fixed sooo

[fringe seal]

context: for whatever reason, you need 500% in 3 machines. what do you do?

1. 3x 166.6667%
2. 150% 150% 200%

[mint girder]

for a whole train network would yall do it like this or another way

[fringe seal]

I'd add this if I don't know the routes beforehand
also the station is facing the wrong way iirc
I have my own station layout though
(good design, btw)

[crimson moat]

should work, maybe better, maybe worse

buffers ARE long pipes but they have a few configuration differences (their capacity is much higher, and their allowed overfill percentage is lower)

Personally, i see the prioritisation either via headlift or via making one path have more objects than the other as as probably unintended / unforseen quirks of the code, and avoid them. They behave in some strange ways which don't reflect reality, and i doubt were checked over and intentionally made that way during dev.

There isn't any liquid prioritisation between 2 competing inputs that seems intended (VIP junction is confirmed as a programming error) - barring package, priority merger, unpackage.

[vapid gorge]

first - your station is facing the wrong way, the curved bit points forward, platforms go behind it

second - in general you'll only want 1 train going between two stations

[wind spade]

250% 250% and one for looks

[vapid gorge]

so you'll only need 1 entrance path

[unique cypress]

when I need 500%, it's gonna be either 5@100% or 2@250%. never anything else

[mint girder]

oh wdym so switch these? and wouldnt the train just keep going through the straight line so it doesnt need to go through the station

if that makes sense

[unique cypress]

yeah, this is completely wrong lol

[mint girder]

😭 i dont get trains

[unique cypress]

the locomotive is what stops at the station. the wagons should stop at platforms

as built, the locomotive will stop at the station, and the wagons will just be sticking out the back

[vapid gorge]

it's not 'completely' wrong

[orchid brook]

diffinetly 2

[unique cypress]

you need the station to be first, the platforms after

[vapid gorge]

swap the two circled

and then it's functional

[mint girder]

ok bet

does this path automatically change if one path is shorter than the other

[unique cypress]

trains in auto basically ignore these

[dusky bronze]

the train will just change it to whatever direction it needs to be

[brazen kettle]

Can I merge 2 300/m pipes into one 600 pipe with junctions? Or will it mess with the through-put?

[fringe seal]

i personally won't push my luck
though, there are people with far more pipe experiences than me

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, I didn't risk it. I needed this system to work at 100%

[wind spade]

Can be done safely, if built properly

[brazen kettle]

completely unnessesary however, only for the looks

[bronze burrow]

which super comp recipe should i use?

[brazen kettle]

Regular or OC I think, super state kinda blows

[unique cypress]

OC is the one that blows

[brazen kettle]

really? I kinda like it

[unique cypress]

it's expensive AF

[brazen kettle]

Super state needs a lot of different materials though

Is it the nitrogen that makes it expensive?

[fringe seal]

what I heard is that OC is the low effort one if you have already automated the two components

[unique cypress]

not really. the difference between the 2 is mostly sulfur vs nitrogen. the rest of the resources are all the same.

[wind spade]

Whichever you like the most for given situation

[unique cypress]

it needs like 3x the bauxite of super-state

[brazen kettle]

yeah, that's true. I have lots of aluminum though

Depends on the situation I guess

[fringe seal]

and what would be the "properly"?

[wind spade]

Always does

[brazen kettle]

yes ofcourse

[unique cypress]

oh, and super-state doesn't use quartz

for some reason I thought it did too

[brazen kettle]

Making batteries feels like such an inconvenience imo

[unique cypress]

it's less of an inconvenience than cooling systems imo

[brazen kettle]

yeah maybe

I will use the regular still I think

[fringe seal]

the other 3 items are for depot, supercomputer..... may or may not be decent

[bronze burrow]

why are these numbers so horrid

[wind spade]

numbers per minute are irrelevant

you change timescale, they start being less/more horrid

[bronze burrow]

ah i see

[unique cypress]

I would agree with you if they were like π√2 but those are all rational numbers.

[knotty hornet]

Is that π times square root 2, or is it the π-th root of two? 😭

If you guys don't like irrational numbers, you're gonna hate 12TET

[unique cypress]

I wanted to check what the pi-th root of 2 would be and wolfram gave me this cursed answer

but no, if I wanted to write the pi-th root of 2, I'd've written 2^(1/π)

[copper bison]

Is the 0.1 difference from 10 gonna fuck me up?

[unique cypress]

just type in 10 into the "target production rate" box

[copper bison]

wait you can type there????

[dusky bronze]

yes

[copper bison]

holy fuck thanks

[dusky bronze]

also in the clock speed thing

[knotty hornet]

I swear, Wolfram is smart, but it does some really stupid shit sometimes.

[dusky dust]

You can even put equations in there!

(the equation doesn't get stored, just its result)

[sharp otter]

which one's better? (i've got cast screws)

[knotty hornet]

Basic ingot kinda sucks, ngl

[fringe seal]

1️⃣ is faster but inefficient
2️⃣ is more iron using limestone which is plenty
but then, iron is also plenty

[knotty hornet]

Bolted Frame is good for high throughput if you don't mind using extra screws

[sharp otter]

the second one sounds like the right option for me, since it gives limestone another use than just concrete(atleast for the stage im in right now)

[wind spade]

Can't really compare two different recipes like that. Also there's not really any "better" or "worse". Just pick what you like, or flip a coin

[fringe seal]

depending on tier and/or already obtained recipes 🔄 is worth trying
or waiting is also worth trying

[sharp otter]

is there anything you can make with limestones except concrete?

[knotty hornet]

Some quartz processes use it

[fringe seal]

and cloudy diamonds (tier 9)

[wind spade]

There's 10 recipes that need limestone

8 without conversions

[sharp otter]

so your saying it would fit with cast screws?

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, cast screws simplify your production by roughly 50%, so it'd be easier to make the extra screws you're gonna consume doing that.

There are even better screw options later on.

[sharp otter]

which on is more efficent?

[fringe seal]

I never realized that you could get recipes for buildings you have not unlocked yet

[fringe seal]

well
the answer has to be the unhelpful "depends"
crystal osc production is more difficult to set up than water production

[unique cypress]

so do bolted frames

[knotty hornet]

No defined answer

[fringe seal]

but then crystal osc is used in some number of alt recipes

[knotty hornet]

Copper Rotor is cracked, but get ready for more screws

Steeled Frame is nice for eliminating screws, it is a lot of pipes though

[unique cypress]

it's very good with iron pipe

[knotty hornet]

40 ingots just for the pipes? No thanks

That is way too much

[unique cypress]

it's literally only 0.4% more expensive than default modular frame

and it cuts machine count by like 40%

if you're making them only out of iron, it's the best by far

[wind spade]

Efficient how?

[knotty hornet]

Hmmm, I'll have to look into that.

[wind spade]

(Also answer is the same no matter which recipes you post - it depends)

[sharp otter]

um, i may have picked the steeled frame

[knotty hornet]

Well apparently it's good

[fringe seal]

there are recipes that has great synergy with it, dw

there are more than enough hdds to unlock every alt recipe, if you are worrying about that

[wind spade]

Out of curiosity, do you even check what the recipes do before asking?

[sharp otter]

i do, but i dont know the "meta"

[thorny shoal]

heya everyone, having some issues here, water is slow at the last inputs, it's been an hour and the last inputs still aren't getting enough water. any idea? thanks!

[wind spade]

"meta" is "use what makes sense for your case"

[sharp otter]

but what if i dont have any cases?

[wind spade]

there's no generic "good" or "bad" recipe. It always depends what your preferences and goals are, you can also just get all recipes anyway, so it doesn't matter if you skip a recipe that you'd use or if you pick a bad recipe, you can still get the other one as well

if you don't know what to pick, you can leave the selection for later once you know, or flip a coin to pick one and be done with it

(picking a recipe doesn't mean you have to use it either)

[sharp otter]

cant argue with that

[wind spade]

also, I'd recommend you to play the game as you want, rather than "forcing" yourself to a situation where you blindly follow random people's preferences without considering your own

[steel knot]

How much water volume is in one packaged water? Is transporting a train of water equal to transporting stacks of packaged water? I remember from a while ago that the only efficient packaged fluid transport by train was nitrogen but wasn’t sure how the other fluids stacked up

Fluid cars store 1600 m3 and 3200 packaged water. So 0.5m3 doesn’t sound unreasonable

As far as breakeven goes

[wind spade]

gases are compressible, liquids are pretty much equal since you need to carry packages back (well, "need")

[unique cypress]

1 m3 of water = 1 packaged water

[steel knot]

Oh wow.

So it’s more volume if packaged

[unique cypress]

if you use the same train to move the empty packages back, you can get double the throughput

well, not quite double, but close

[steel knot]

Ah good point. 2x volume in one car but 0 volume in the other

[unique cypress]

you can use a second station to load them back into the same wagons. now they're all always full and you get double throughput

[wind spade]

well, less than double due to increased load times

[unique cypress]

eh, you can ususally recover that difference by using "depart when empty/full"

which you can't really use with fluids if you're transporting more than 1200/min total

one of my setups had 2.2x the throughput after packaging

[sonic jasper]

how? if i have 10 and can only split and merge that by 2s and 3s

[sonic jasper]

i see, thank you

[steel knot]

Yeah trying to decide on train or long pipeline. It’s the oil node near the start of dune desert so no water nearby

[unique cypress]

wdym? there's water right up a cliff

and if you only need <600, you can fit 2 extractors near the geysers

and iirc there's a water well nearby? though that needs tier 7

[steel knot]

True. I remember it up there but didn’t actually go check how much was usable

Need about 960

[steel knot]

There’s a water well up north by the quartz I know about

[unique cypress]

there's 2, even

[crimson moat]

🍀

[ruby tulip]

noice

[unique cypress]

I respawn to get back to the hub way too often for the counter to show more than like 10

[ruby tulip]

im just to inkompetent to not fall to death when building with the jetpack.

and im on a multiplayer server so im not the only one who dies.

[unique cypress]

I don't think I've ever done that tbh

I'm pretty good at keeping track of remaining fuel

[ruby tulip]

i sometimes think, ill be able to make it and then barely miss the cliff or whatever

[unique cypress]

when falling to your death, pop a medicinal inhaler. you'll survive on like 1 HP

[fringe seal]

(this is because fall damage is capped at 97)

[fringe seal]

when I try to change to parachute / jetpack and end up triggering steam's overlay

[fringe seal]

vietnam_flashbacks.jpg

I gave up debugging my factory for my previous save

[thorny shoal]

from some reason adding a pump made it work

even though headlift shouldnt be a problem

[fringe seal]

there is a phenomenon ingame where adding a ton of headlift improves flow

#1299098801897738260 message

[crimson moat]

There are some issues with headlift, and also pump has valve functionality so that can help too

In general:

• Don't use vertical junctions as they have a known severe bug. It can cause unintentional flow prioritisation/deprioritisation, blocking of flow where it's supposed to happen, free and excess headlift generation which you may accidentally rely on, etc. You have loads of these.

• Keep pipes at or below 2/3 of their max rated flow rate, less if reasonable, if you're going to connect them to a manifold (when the sloshing happens, it can self-correct via flowrate headroom)

[thorny shoal]

ah

i saw the vertical junctions in a video and thought they looked cool ;-;

[fringe seal]

I have discovered a benefit of doing plubber loop with a sushi belt: you can change the ratio of the group easily, just by changing the recipes / clock speeds

[unique cypress]

you can do that with a non-sushi system

and even without even changing anything with the setup

only change the demand

[fringe seal]

as in: 100% plastic to 100% rubber

[unique cypress]

yeah, if you build both rubber as open loops with overflow as output, and you build enough refineries to support 100% rubber or 100% plastic, it'll supply them in whatever ratio you pull

or 4 plastic to 5 rubber if you pull more than it can supply

[fringe seal]

sure, that's also a way

I guess I have never thought about that

but power demand fluctuation :(

[unique cypress]

that's gonna happen with every adaptive setup

you can change the clock speeds to match your exact demand, but then it's not "automatically" adaptive

[coarse scarab]

Yoo

[fringe seal]

so
answer: ...it depends
depends whether you have automated the components somewhere else, what alts you are using, how many are you supporting, etc etc

[coarse scarab]

I do have producing at my starting location but I am wanting to go clean and bigger other stuff need properly produced with more numbers because currently is real poor

[fringe seal]

and depends if you have drone fuel automated, have a train line, etc etc

[coarse scarab]

No drones are not set up yet I do have train but its nit here in the swamps area yet

Tbh id be happy to produce at my newest factory the round one and am making more of them the 1st is not finished yet

[noble wind]

What are the best alternate recipies for tier 4

[unique cypress]

You kinda want to get all of them

[noble wind]

But are there some that i should prioritize

[wind spade]

there's nothing like "best" alternate recipe

whether you like it or not depends on you, other people may have (and will have) different preferences

[ruby tulip]

nothing is a must, but the pure recipes are good for better ore yield and heavy oil residue + diluted (packaged) fuel greatly increases fuel yield(And together with recycled plastic and rubber also for those.)
but again. this is totally up to you, and it really depends on your way of building and what you what to do.

as greeny said, there is no best alt.
alts are usually a balance of cost vs. ease of setup.
e.g. the iron pipe recipe has worse yield per iron ore, but doesn't require coal for steel pipes, while the pure recipes increase yield, but they require more space and water.

[noble wind]

Understood its just that rn im planing my factory/ies for tier 4 and im looking at alt recipies to make my prod better

[ruby tulip]

ideally you just want to have hard drives scanned, and in the library, so you can unlock recipes, when you need them for a specific build..

what alts YOU wanna use for a specific BUILD in a specific SITUATION in a specific SPOT on the map, really depend on alot of things. it's no one size fits all kinda thing.

[sage nexus]

are there any spots that are like ideal for pulling sulfur/coal from for turbofuel? I wouldn't mind a little train ride if necessary

[deft lichen]

Lake forest has everything without having to import from anywhere

Oil, coal, sulfur, water

[sage nexus]

oh fancy

[slim ocean]

what should i get

[unique cypress]

I'd kinda want all 4 of these lol

[heavy gust]

Neither is that great, you can keep them to get better results ln the next drives

Fused quickwire is alright

[slim ocean]

thanks

did i hit jackpot or nah

i rescanned that ai plastic shit

[wind spade]

anything that you want. Play the game by yourself, don't ask us how to play your own game 😛

[slim ocean]

is that heavy oil good?

[knotty hornet]

A new curiosity was spurred. How would you this same thing, but 7:3 split?

[knotty hornet]

Yes, very good, along with diluted fuel

[slim ocean]

thanks

[wind spade]

"good" depends on your priorities and preferences. It makes a lot of HOR if that's something you want

[slim ocean]

thanks greeny for this comment

[knotty hornet]

Nice

What do you use to calculate those?

[unique cypress]

https://icemoonmagic.github.io/Satisfactory-Splitter-Calculator/

[knotty hornet]

Nice

[heavy gust]

If he didnt want an answer, he wouldnt have asked

[wind spade]

I did answer... the first thing in that message

[fringe seal]

calculated this manually for fun lol

[knotty hornet]

That uses fewer blocks than the one Kyo posted 😳

[fringe seal]

the Needed column is exact

the .123 circuit board leftover is unfortunate

idea

refinery is ~40m tall

even a single floor should give enough headlift to power through bottomfeed

as a bonus the loop (ugly) is not as visible as it is spread all over the building

[torn yacht]

do industrial storage containers work as 2-2 load balancers?

[fringe seal]

no, there is a priority that changes at random on loading

or so I heard

if the numbers are exact (the outputs are completely saturated) then sure, why not

[dusky dust]

Heh, lots of ISC-balancing questions lately; wonder why?

[steel knot]

If I have 960 coming into and out of a freight platform, do I have to worry about how the dual exits are split? I assume it would still fill up two manifolds

(Mk4 belts)

[knotty hornet]

It will send out them both evenly

[vapid gorge]

The issue with bottom feeding isn’t headlift, otherwise a pump would fix it

[fringe seal]

counterpoint: that 370 meters of headlift thread

imean

it solves it definitely

[vapid gorge]

You have a loop, and sometimes, with a proper loop, you can bottom feed

But it’s 1000% not a headlift issue

[fringe seal]

in case you are not aware of it: #1299098801897738260 message

it may be not a headlift issue

but headlift solves it somehow

[vapid gorge]

Still not a headlift issue

[fringe seal]

still it is solved by headlift

[vapid gorge]

A properly looped pipe can bottom feed

[vapid gorge]

Yeah buddy, you saying that is the equivalent of a homeopath selling me onion water for the flu

Delete the loop and tell me how well it works

[fringe seal]

alright, not "solved" maybe
still 370 meters of headlift made it work, when it should not

[vapid gorge]

Delete the looped part, tell me how well it works

Water and crude oil also tend to be more forgiving with pipe shenanigans if that’s what you’re using it for

Headlift isn’t force in the game

[fringe seal]

when I make it ingame I'll report

[vapid gorge]

All it does it tell the pipe how high fluid can legally go

[fringe seal]

from past experience: loop reduced the problems a bit but did not solve it
adding ~200m of headlift reduced the problems a lot but still did not solve it

wait, I might have the save

[fringe seal]

do you want the save?

[vapid gorge]

No. I want you to delete the loop

[fringe seal]

(but then, I know what the reply would be: "you did not made the line properly, somewhere".)

[vapid gorge]

Sometimes a powered pump right before the manifold can create a bit of stability, but that’s not a headlift issue

[unique cypress]

Yeah, that calculator isn't guaranteed to give you the simplest solution. I changed some settings and got this one, which is arguably better than the other 2 (also 5 splitters/mergers, but no merging 10 with 2 into 12 so no potential bottleneck). But with more complicated splits, it may be impossible to get it to produce the simplest solution. Plus it only does ratio splits, and it doesn't consider using lower belt speeds and smart splitters to do unequal splits in one splitter

[knotty hornet]

This one looks slightly closer to how I was thinking about it before I asked, so I got not just one, but three answers, nice.

[vapid gorge]

An example of looped #math-and-meta message

and as mentioned, headlift is not a force, it simply allows.

Loops help reduce backflow.

[fringe seal]

I am not denying the effects of the divine loop, I'm just mentioning the effect of headlifts

(that is why there is a loop and 100m of headlift in that diagram together)

[vapid gorge]

But it’s absolutely not headlift

It’s not a force

You just often make loops not good enough or don’t wait long enough

[fringe seal]

but then why that test result exist?

[orchid brook]

is there 10 pure iron nods close to each other?

[vapid gorge]

Because you rebuild something and another thing changed

Or you waited a few more minutes for balancing

Or the precarious bottom feeding system, that is effectively like spinning plates, actually stabilized this time around

Bottom feeding is generally VERY tricky and unstable.

But this is like performing a rain dance, rain happening, and claiming the dance worked

[fringe seal]

I have a hypothesis tbh
it is not a force, instead it acts like a gradient that divides the fluids

[orchid brook]

there is

[vapid gorge]

As long as you have enough headlift that shouldn’t be an issue

[fringe seal]

dune desert is full of iron

[orchid brook]

that is taken

[unique cypress]

Except pumps do add pressure, which can help flow

[orchid brook]

if u wanna make 120 HMF go there

[fringe seal]

rough "feeling" I have about why headlift affects bottomfeed

if headlift = large compared to bottomfeed pipe length, then the % of fluids going into machine is larger

[unique cypress]

ISCs fulfill 2 of the 3 requirements for a balancer so it depends what exactly you want from it. If you want equal priority inputs/outputs, you ain't gonna get that. But for everything else you'd use a balancer for, it'll most likely work.

I don't know why you'd want to use an ISC instead of an actual balancer, because the ISC is bigger and has 48 stacks of buffer, which is often not ideal

But if you're already using an ISC (for a train for example), you usually don't need to add a balancer before/after it. Both the ISC and the platform have one inventory despite having 2 inputs/outputs, so the platform's balance is not affected by the ISCs random belt priorities

[unique cypress]

Why bolted frame???

Steeled is straight up better when doing iron-only

[orchid brook]

it worked well with the numbers

[orchid brook]

Oh wait

why did i actaly do it>

ok i am dumb

[heavy gust]

No, you pretended to answer

[frosty owl]

Choosing "anything" or even at random is one way to choose recipes 🤷‍♂️

[knotty hornet]

It's seven hours past... let it be

[frosty owl]

Are you implying that the internet is not forever?!

[unique cypress]

No clue why you'd do that instead of just leaving it in the library

[frosty owl]

Why would you leave it?

[knotty hornet]

You guys scan them?

[heavy gust]

He always does this, hasnt changed a bit in years

[unique cypress]

Why would you take a recipe you might not use?

Take it when you're about to use it

[frosty owl]

Sounds like something worth discussing with the mods rather than trying to stir shit up in public chats (which is against #rules)

[knotty hornet]

Cuz if it's not in the Codex, i forget about it

[frosty owl]

Because you're so distressed by the choice that you came to the point of asking about it xD
So it may be worth just picking any one and not fretting over the choice until, eventually, you'll have the info to answer it on your own ("huh, I think I like this recipe better than the one I had before" kind of realization)