math-and-meta

[grim crane]

Like im gonna make this a round 16 refiniers because i fr dront wanna deal with it

A bit of excess is good for my storage or so

[unique cypress]

the amount of RF produced from 1350 oil with this chain is 3272.(72).

so it is an error. user error.

[grim crane]

I fr dont care if the calculator gives a bad number
i have a pen and paper

Its just there to show the scope and the production chain

[unique cypress]

you're literally asking for an amount that requires exactly 1349.98875 oil/min

so ofc it's gonna tell you it's 1349.99, not 1350

[grim crane]

Yes
but the calculator shows 45 refineries
Thats 13350 oil?

[wind spade]

it doesn't give bad numbers though

[grim crane]

im gonna repeat this again
i recalculate these after by hand, yes im aware its one less clocked

[unique cypress]

if there's a 1350 oil input, it's not

but you aren't getting 3272.7 RF, you're getting 3272.(72)

[waxen condor]

73

[unique cypress]

which is 8/11 after the decimal point, not 7/10

[grim crane]

yes

[unique cypress]

72 repeating, not 73

[waxen condor]

785.45 Power Gens in Total = 196362.5 MW

[grim crane]

ik
but i dont use the calculator to that exact amount
i use it to get a somewhat overwiew before Chrunching everything my self with a 2.5 here, a Sloop there

I just try to get as close as possible

[waxen condor]

look at the picture i just send in it clearly says 3272.73

[unique cypress]

it's clearly rounded

[waxen condor]

no i looket at it

[wind spade]

afaik modeller rounds to 2 decimals

[unique cypress]

wow it's 8/11, exactly like I said

and 8/11 is 72 repeating

[waxen condor]

7.27272727272727 is closer to 3
learn math bro

[grim crane]

And thats why i use my Trust physical Calculator for the latest draft...

[unique cypress]

I think you should learn math because you clearly don't understand what "repeating" means

[waxen condor]

or just do this and you get the amount of power gen's

[unique cypress]

go, divide 8 by 11 and look for your .73

[waxen condor]

7.27 with 27 repeating still makes 27, 30 when rounded

[wind spade]

but the game doesn't round, so it will make 27 repeating

[grim crane]

Btw why the fuck did the devs kill the Power to the floor thing they had in the game files
i swear i hate Cables

[unique cypress]

yeah, it's 0.(72), which modeler rounds to 0.73? because it doesn't have infinite space to show infinite decimals?

[waxen condor]

after the 2 comes a 7 which is higher than a 5

[unique cypress]

it's still 8/11

[wind spade]

we're not talking about how it rounds tho? we're talking about the exact number

[waxen condor]

even if !!!! only the first number after the rounded location counts which is 7 at that point and it wouldn't change even if there would be infint decimals

[unique cypress]

I could round it to 0.727 too 🤷‍♂️

[grim crane]

Beutifull

[waxen condor]

yes

[unique cypress]

I geniuinely don't know what you're trying to argue anymore

[waxen condor]

and when you round it to the next locations it's 0.73 agian

[wind spade]

but why does the rounded value matter if game uses the non-rounded one?

[grim crane]

i should stop usng alt recepies...
they are genually pain

[waxen condor]

me too

[unique cypress]

ok? it's still 8/11?

the game doesn't round so that's what you're gonna get

[waxen condor]

let's just keep it 8/11 and don't go to decimal numbers or else some people in here forget how math works ;D

[waxen condor]

wtf

[knotty hornet]

8/11 = 72/99 = 0.727272... = 0.(72)

I literally don't see how you don't understand

[grim crane]

300 Osciliators plus 25 Uranium rods feeding of thet line
i wanted to make another beast anyway
my old one was 290
now its time for 300
Why?
no reason

[knotty hornet]

Unless you never learned about rational numbers

[grim crane]

Actually it was 290.625

do i need this?
no
do i want it?
maybe

[unique cypress]

fyi SCIM assumes all your machines are running at 100% uptime when giving this number so this won't be accurate unless yours are at 100%

[grim crane]

I should be

The only thing i never plan to run on 100% runtime is Space elevator parts
BUT that is changing
I will build a full decicated favtory to also get the last stage parts to a 100% uptime

Once i fully figured out how much SAM i want to burn
But i think i have decided already
i just needa check what i need in older space elevator parts

Like i rly hate machines overflowing.,..
and i need to fix that
if it aint crashing most peoples power grid i dont want it

Everything for that magical 100

[waxen condor]

i don'T see how you don'T understand

[knotty hornet]

The fact of the matter is, the game stores more significant figures than it displays.

[waxen condor]

iT#s same as saying 72.727272 would be 72 when rounding but It's clearly 73

[knotty hornet]

At no point did I make that claim.

[waxen condor]

you sayed 8/11 would be 72 but It's 72.727272727 which is 73

[unique cypress]

it's 0.(72), not 0.72

[knotty hornet]

I did not say that

0.(72) means 72 repeating

[waxen condor]

than yes

[knotty hornet]

Okay

So shut up and learn math

[waxen condor]

but saying
it's 0.(72) without saying that this mean repeating makes no sense there are 1000ways to say that this is reapeating

[knotty hornet]

This is pretty standard way to do it when a vinculum is not available

[unique cypress]

that's standard notation for repeating? it's not my fault you don't know that

[waxen condor]

0.¯27
That's what i know

[knotty hornet]

I also made the equivalence explicit here

[knotty hornet]

Very ambiguous

[unique cypress]

that's none of them

[knotty hornet]

Also, not 8/11, that's 3/11 😼

[unique cypress]

and parentheses are the only one you can type from the keyboard

[barren sparrow]

As a quick aside, any single digit integer over 11 is going to repeat forever

Except 1 if you have a strike when thinking *

[knotty hornet]

1/11 = 0.09090909 = 0.(09)

[unique cypress]

ah, yes, the infinitely repeating fraction of 13/20

[wind spade]

it's not standard across the whole earth though, so I kinda get their point

[knotty hornet]

I think you meant single digit over 9

[barren sparrow]

Probably both tbh

[knotty hornet]

2/9 = 0.22222... = 0.(2)

You wanna know a fun one? Do (1/9)²

[barren sparrow]

Any integer over a prime or a multiple of 3, yeah?

[unique cypress]

fuck 8 ig

[waxen condor]

I means that the following are Vinculum.
just because it's not globally exapted doesn't mean it's invalid

[knotty hornet]

What do you mean?

[barren sparrow]

I’m finding so many exceptions to my own rules. I should stop talking

[unique cypress]

no 8

[knotty hornet]

Oh yeah, it gets destroyed by carryover

[knotty hornet]

Now try (1/99)^2 😏

Best to get as many digits as possible

[knotty hornet]

Any denominator that has a prime factor other than 2 or 5 will give a repeating decimal of some sort.

[barren sparrow]

👆

[unique cypress]

you can get 0 though 9 as a repeating decimal

but the fraction is uhhh

[barren sparrow]

That’s disgusting

[knotty hornet]

Oh lord

If we're gonna move on to IRrational numbers

Champernowne's constant is cool

Also the numerical coincidences in e are pretty sick.

2.7[18281828][459045][235][360]...

Doubled block of 4
45-90-45; like the special triangle
2,3,5; first three prime numbers
360; degrees in a circle

And if you have trouble remembering the digits of π, remember this phrase:
"May I have a large container of coffee, cream, and sugar?"

May = 3
I = 1
Have = 4
And so on

(Math-tism spill over)

[grim crane]

Refineries might have been the worst thing in this game
wdym i need 42 refiners 😭

On top of my already 32

[knotty hornet]

That's nothing

You got this

[grim crane]

I mean yeah
time to give myself more powershards cus i aint gonna do *2.5

[knotty hornet]

Sharding big setups is a sure way to run out of shards (and power overhead)

Parts comes and go

Slugs are forever

[grim crane]

I mean power shards are the one thing i aint gonna cry about when people cheat them
Cus i aint gonna build that many Refineries formy own sanity

[unique cypress]

better 42 than 1200 at max OC. cause that's what's awaiting me

[grim crane]

Ok wtf???

[knotty hornet]

I would advise against max sharding a recycling setup

[grim crane]

I mean my average save ends up having about 2k of them

[knotty hornet]

You will need to be able to adjust clocks more cleanly and evenly

[grim crane]

Im running it with a bit of overhead and a unused oil node that will help out a bit

[knotty hornet]

200% sure, but leave some upper head room.

[unique cypress]

nah, with a good setup you don't even need to touch the clock speed

[unique cypress]

a 10 TW power plant

[grim crane]

I already upped the 15.3 refiniers for the resedue to 16
so im running cleaner numbers and a bit of overhead
i wanna just have cleaner numbers throughout

[grim crane]

That was my original original orgiinal idea from last year

But i have scraped that

For funsies i wanted to use every oil node as for rocket fuel
i spend 200 hours into that project

Before deleting it
half of that was just math

[knotty hornet]

My biggest mistake (and also biggest boon) was rounding things up to multiples of 3 so I could use my 3-ref blueprint, and that allowed me to clock everything down a bit, but the numbers were gross.

[grim crane]

I barely use blueprints ngl

[knotty hornet]

But I like math (as has been demonstrated) so I worked it out.

[unique cypress]

I just wouldn't clock them down 🤷‍♂️

[grim crane]

I just build every production line as i need it
flexibility

[knotty hornet]

I was gonna do that, but then the outputs of rubber and plastic weren't equal

[unique cypress]

throttle them with equal consumption and they would be

[grim crane]

Also am i the only person that hates trucks?
they are so stupidly useless to me idk

[unique cypress]

I don't hate them, but they are useless

[knotty hornet]

So how do you make a machine consume less/more?

[grim crane]

My first and only truck route i did since the Open beta

[unique cypress]

I build everything with a final goal in mind. which is always x machines at 100% or 250% speed. they throttle everything downstream to that

[knotty hornet]

They make a build seem lively

[grim crane]

200% is lowkey goated

[grim crane]

i just use trains for that lol

My old save had this wide train network cus i love Trains

[knotty hornet]

What i figured is, since the recycling system is only getting rubber in, it has to have a little bit of extra capacity for recycling to plastic in order to level them, so I made a few extra Recycled Plastic machines.
But they are tuned down slightly more than the rubber ones, so in total, i guess that does make sense.

It was my first try at it 😭

I tried to balance it by making the fuel consumption math work out.

[grim crane]

I love needing to have 1466/75 refiniers

[sullen light]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-iliketrains-trains-gif-4905803

[knotty hornet]

I love seeing train networks like this, but I've never built one myself.

[grim crane]

I had a lot of time xd

[knotty hornet]

Your mom took Tylenol?

[grim crane]

that save is a gem
it has so much idiotic shit and so much insane stuff with so much spaghettie mixed with it

[knotty hornet]

😭

[grim crane]

Like yes i did rely on no cost cheat, that i am fully trying to avoid in this save for now...
besides power chards ofc

[knotty hornet]

No cost cheat?

Actually don't tell me

I don't wanna know

[grim crane]

Its just a mod
i mostly use it to fly for screenshots
but in my old save i just used it before creative mode was a thing

[knotty hornet]

Ah, well yeah, creative isn't a bad thing

[knotty hornet]

Creative mode and Peaceful mode are perfectly valid, don't let anyone say otherwise.

[grim crane]

I did commit to 100% farming everyting
(besides shards and Slugs)

Btw justice to the Green power slug

[knotty hornet]

Pour one out for the green boi

[grim crane]

btw i need Smart mod to return
the zoopable building just aitn the same 😭

How else will i place 2000 THOUSAND batteries

[edgy leaf]

wdym with that?

like, using up alll raw resources? O.o

[grim crane]

No

Actually wait

I wanna do a run with everything unlocked one day where i use EVERYTHING

[edgy leaf]

oooh you meant automating all components, i misunderstood

[grim crane]

Its actually not that long

Also one day i will fix and unspeghattiefy my original save from the Open beta 🥀

[visual ocean]

Is this a smart way of using recipes for a aluminium factory?

[wind spade]

anything is smart if you like it

[visual ocean]

im trying to build here

First i was thinking on using coal instead of petroleum coke

[upbeat summit]

question: to make aluminium solution, why not use the sloppy alumina recipie and produce silica using quartz? won't that give more alumina solution per bauxite?

[knotty hornet]

Instant scrap is better (way less water hungry, sulfuric is not hard to make)

[visual ocean]

This is why i asked. I was trying to avoid using qwartz. It just makes the setup cleaner

And since this is going to be kinda of a big factory i might as well just simplify

[grim crane]

Whats the best way to get Quickwire???
cus after my current model i need 990 refiniers fully clocked and slooped

and im crying 😭

[wind spade]

well there's two recipes, pick one that makes sense for your current situation

[upbeat summit]

i mean at this point just spam blueprints that autoconnect, and i think that purified caterium ingot is the best recepie?

[grim crane]

Wait omg i have a error
i switched up my copper and caterium ingot numbers

its only 13.75

[grim crane]

machinery for all of that stands...
now the belts 😭

[knotty hornet]

Soo much QW 🥴

[unique cypress]

That's a pretty standard way of doing a ln aluminium factory. I use those exact recipes basically every time

[knotty hornet]

Nine mk 6 belts is crazy work.

[grim crane]

I need mk8 belts

[wind spade]

same as screws - make it in front of machines that needs them

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, exactly

[unique cypress]

Or be like me and build a 20:20 balancer kekw

[grim crane]

uhh
that woant rly fit into my layout of having all the refineries on a open floor and the machines stacked in a building

I wanted to try smt diffrent

[knotty hornet]

How many blocks (splitters/mergers) would that need?

[grim crane]

Isnt it lovely
still missing quartz and Iron refineries

[wind spade]

well that's your choice 🙂 but items that are needed in large quantities are usually best to make in front of machines that need them

[knotty hornet]

You doing pure quartz, or the distillation?

[grim crane]

The copper and Caterium ones are fulls slooped..
Otherwise it would be sooo many more refineries

[unique cypress]

96 I think?

[knotty hornet]

Wowee

[grim crane]

Whatevr this sais 😭

[grim crane]

Can i have that xd

[knotty hornet]

Okay, so pure

If you need both silica and crystal, the distillation process is nice, you basically get to double dip on the raw quartz

[grim crane]

this is gonna use more power than it produces if i keep slooping all the pure recepies 🥀

But somehow i need to get 4297 copper ingots

[unique cypress]

That's not nearly as bad a 20:20 mixer, which would take 380 each

[grim crane]

Do you have those as a blueprint for me?

omg fuck the water will be PAIN 😭

[knotty hornet]

Probably not, you'd have to custom make it

[unique cypress]

Those wouldn't fit in a BP I don't think

I BP them in parts

[grim crane]

Bigger plueprints mod go brr?

[knotty hornet]

Even a mk 3? I feel like it might if you were super clever

And didn't mind some clipping

[grim crane]

I do

AHHHHHHHHH

Delete that Borg cubus

[wind spade]

that clipping

[unique cypress]

That's a 20:20

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, I think if you used more vertical space, it'd fit

Cuz i see 8× roughly 7? Foundations

So you could chop it up and stack layers maybe

[grim crane]

Btw i need coffe stain to release a glass foundation without a Single stupid beam
either two or none

[unique cypress]

Yeah but how do you do that without making the belt runs horrendous?

It's laid out like this because it makes beltwork easy

[wind spade]

they already run horrendous 😛

[knotty hornet]

Fair. Maybe lifts would work, but that'd be a whole other mess.

[grim crane]

i rememember when we used to do Belt Spirals before update 1 🧓

https://tenor.com/view/yelling-cloud-old-man-news-gif-14394596

[unique cypress]

A 20:20 mixer would be 80m wide, 8m thick and like 64m tall

Which is honestly perfect for me since it's the thickness/length that drives factory footprint the most, at least with my build style

[grim crane]

Should i cover the trenches later on with glass or Foundations?

[knotty hornet]

Glass

Love to see pipe and beltwork through the floors, it's hawt

[grim crane]

There will be a whole second logistical layer
i love calling these the backrooms

They are for bridging the trenches and just for stuff you dont want to see
like ores
and balancing 650000000000000000 belts

[wind spade]

you can also balance 0 belts and just do direct input 😛

[grim crane]

Where is the fun in that?

Also i dont think i can direct input some of these numbers lol
or ORE

[wind spade]

direct input is always possible

[grim crane]

Mhh yes im gonnna direct input my ore 💀

[wind spade]

why not?

[grim crane]

Why should it?

this is my only time i ever used direct input
Because it made sense number wise
and mostly after it just kinda does not lol

[wind spade]

1:2 or 2:1 or similar also practically counts as direct input

[grim crane]

Ok i did Direct input with a belt highway that goes around my main factory becaue space constraints

[unique cypress]

I don't understand your obsession with direct input and exact clocking. I tried it (and other methods) and DI was the least convenient to use out of all of them

[wind spade]

I could say the same about your balancers 🤷

[grim crane]

The belts going from the trains are direct input and the belts coming from that belt are direct input to a production under my hub

yes that Highway was needed

[wind spade]

the point is it's another way to play and it's not bad (at least for some people), and more importantly it's something that people not often think about

(or you built it in a weird way)

[grim crane]

I mean later in the game direct input works
because you get back to normal fucking numbers

but even then i use mergers and splitters to reduce belts

[wind spade]

direct input is very often paired with clocking to make it easier to match numbers

[grim crane]

I just default to 250% clocking

Because otherwise i would shoot myself idk

[wind spade]

well then obviously direct input isn't ideal

[knotty hornet]

Ugh, am i the only one who doesn't just max clock massive builds?

[grim crane]

I sometimes have one refinery being 0.222 or so

[unique cypress]

I don't until I have shards automated.

Which was never before 1.0

[knotty hornet]

I tune machines down and build more sometimes

[grim crane]

But just going divide by 2.5 is like rly stupidly nice
Like no ficsit i aint gonna build 405 refineries

[grim crane]

I mean same, because thats a way to optimise

[wind spade]

maybe get more reasonable goals then 😛

[knotty hornet]

Gotta squeeze out power savings wherever I can, so I don't have to keep building power plants

[unique cypress]

I ain't gonna do that when I'll need 3300 machines at 250%

[grim crane]

Thats why you build stupidly big Power Plants

[grim crane]

This aint that bad

[grim crane]

real

[knotty hornet]

Okay, fair

[wind spade]

what are you making I mean

[silver valve]

does anyone have a 8 to 5 belt balancer blueprint?

[grim crane]

300 oscillators (25 are used for the fuel rods)

balancing the rubber and Plastic recycling will be PAIN

[unique cypress]

Probably not, but I can make one if you want

[silver valve]

that would be splendid

[wind spade]

what for lol. That's like 280 more than I'd reasonably build

[grim crane]

Last save i did 290 or so, for fun
I wanna do 300 now
For fun

No real reason
I dont need one
i just need big number

[knotty hornet]

Gotta keep up with those billboards fr

[grim crane]

My original goal was 500
than i looked at the refiniery count

[unique cypress]

@ or DM me in like 2 hours if I don't get back to you until then. I can't do it rn and I feel like I might forget by the time I can

[silver valve]

ok

[wind spade]

fair, but then don't expect low building counts 😛

[grim crane]

I mean yes

I will die on this hill
The refinery
and the pipes
are the worst thing ever added to this game

Also wtf did they do to the Straight mode for belts
it keeps bugging out

[oblique hollow]

smells like skill issue

[wind spade]

most of community: pls add pipes
CSS: adds pipes
most of community: pipes bad

[grim crane]

Natürlich

[grim crane]

I was always against pipes

[oblique hollow]

pipes are very well fixable.
what isnt fixable is peoples obsession with using pure recipes and then giving themselves refinery PTSD

[wind spade]

I mean yeah it would be nice for them to be more reliable, but I still stand behind them even in current state, they are perfectly fine if you realise they work like pipes, not like belts

[oblique hollow]

and i stand firmly behind my QA post suggestion of tweaking the variables

It doesnt ruin them - it just makes them consistent to use

[wind spade]

yeah, I'm not against it

just saying that even without it the pipes are way more fine than what people say

[oblique hollow]

The have like 3 major bugs that are annoying

1. Junction orientation and the confusion that causes
2. the current variables making max flow and vertical manifolds harder to use than needed
3. Some issues with Head Lift and multiple valves in series

[grim crane]

Pipes lowkey just feel weird to place and build
thats my biggest issue
compared to Belts
also i hate when one pipe end keeps trying to attach to another when i build fast and it fucks with me so hard because obv belts dont

[oblique hollow]

if those were fixed they would still be hard to use but consitent

[wind spade]

1. is indeed a bug to fix
2. yeah, nice QOL, but I wouldn't consider it a bug
3. who would use valves lol

[oblique hollow]

I feel like thats mostly a problem in tight spaces with many pipes packed in, isnt it?

[grim crane]

Yeah
and just generlly the modes behaving weird

[oblique hollow]

That Valve part is honestly just something to make them more consistent to use.
if that was fixed, valves would actually be perfectly fine to use

they still have a learning curve, but valves in series wouldnt completely kill headlift anymore

[grim crane]

Like straight mode on pipes smt tries attaches the support to a invisible wall

[wind spade]

well my problem with valves is that even if they worked perfectly, the need for them is very minimal if at all

[grim crane]

Valves, when needed, are a life saver omg

[knotty hornet]

Valves are nice on recycled water loops

[oblique hollow]

Yeah, but if that was fixed, and if the pipes were adjusted, you could use them properly to split flow without any oddness

[wind spade]

so never

[wind spade]

they can still break there (and that's not related to the bug mentioned above)

[knotty hornet]

They can help control flow in so you can ensure you use all the recycled water properly.

[grim crane]

My whole alluminium plant would just not work without one Valve that regulates smt

[wind spade]

much better to do separate fresh and recycled

[knotty hornet]

The point is, if they were fixed, they do have a use

[oblique hollow]

Recycling loops are moreso just subject to system stability theory

[wind spade]

but the "breaking" isn't related to the bug

[grim crane]

I love my gas recycle Systems
(i have one, and the train bottle loop)

[oblique hollow]

the bug is just that 2 valves in series means you get no head lift

[wind spade]

no I was talking about using valves for alu

[knotty hornet]

Oh

Really?

I've never seen that one before

[oblique hollow]

Yeah it is a bit risky but like.... Ive done it. and it can work
you just gotta be sure about the risk

[grim crane]

That one Valve there makes this all work xd

[wind spade]

valves for alu are basically the same as no valves - once production stops, it usually breaks (compared to separate fresh and recycled water, which can easily restart after production stops)

[oblique hollow]

valve after pump seems kinda pointless - are you sure you werent just exceeding head lift

[grim crane]

i tried that too

And no
for some reason if that valve isnt there the other pipes dont have enough flow because these arent perfect 600 flows ofc

[oblique hollow]

thats the pipe variables at fault

which is why i would like them to be tweaked

consistent flow IS possible

[grim crane]

Also if the system is like fully stopped
it also woant restart normally without that valve for some reason

Still one of my most beutifull Pipe works

[oblique hollow]

those pipe stacks now make it clear why you felt frustrated with building them kinda lol

was that in 1.1 with autoconnect or before that?

[grim crane]

Before

[oblique hollow]

ouch

[grim crane]

Also this whole system still woant work correctly because i havent fully gotten my Balancer fixed for the stupid 1:1 belts

This number should never be above or below 400
THis whole system should NEVER stop
Every single BAuxit entering has one Ingot getting shredded

Smt smt trains is fucking with this

[oblique hollow]

360 bauxite near the middle

[grim crane]

I tried to fix this after i unlocked mk6 belts..
But i need to completly just redo it
And ill just use the power of the Mk6 belt and do 2 belts to 6 and than one to 2 or smt

you can tell which one is not a 600/1200 belt on the other side of the Train network...

Wait no that one should be

Im gonna jump

Omg it works now fucking finally

the trains might actually be to frequent per station for this oops
time to reroute one train

[unique cypress]

forgot to ask: which belt tier?

[unique cypress]

did 2 versions with mk6 belts for now. when you tell me which belts and which version you want, I'll DM it to you

[knotty hornet]

Yooooo

[grim crane]

can i have those too xd

[silver valve]

mk6 is fine, i think i like the left one best

[grim crane]

IM DONE WITH THE REFINARIES OMG

I WILL NEVER BUILD A REFINARY AGAIN!

Hell

[knotty hornet]

(Doing my best Kristoff impression)
"I'm gonna tell him 😏 "

[grim crane]

Now time to belt up all the water...
Or the oil stuff?

I wish we had wireless machines 😭

[grim crane]

DO you also do recycle Machine Balancing for people xd

[unique cypress]

do you really need an 8:5?

[grim crane]

One day maybe

[unique cypress]

which one? both?

[grim crane]

Yeah

The small one could be usefull looking at my Fucked ahh numbers

[unique cypress]

does the game refuse to show as closed on steam for anyone else?

started today

[wind spade]

looks just fine for me

[unique cypress]

and happened both times I closed the game

it's not in task manager anymore

[silver valve]

it only happens for me if i open it then immediately close it

[unique cypress]

had the game running for at least an hour both times

maybe closed too quickly after saving 🤔

[silver valve]

idk, i have never had a problem with doing that before

[agile junco]

I cannot decide if I should try to make a perfect circle and then place fuel power plans along the circumference somehow neatly, or make a 16 sided shape that looks somewhat circular.

[knotty hornet]

There are no "perfect circles" here, only close approximation with large n-gons.

(Pillars and corner round foundations don't count)

[agile junco]

I mean, yea I know. Just a question of if I try to make it less obviously an n-gon.

[vapid gorge]

for the love of god, just use what's on your belt... you don't need nightmare balancers and it'll make your life much easier.

clock machiens to do what yo uwant and put what you need on the belts

[grim crane]

nah

On a good note
All the stuff to do with Oil is now up and running
and ill just need to see if i did my Pipes correctly

Beuty at work

[grim crane]

im running out of Power Budget so im trying to Completly isolate my Main factory from it rn
while keeping my trains running

[sullen light]

day 6 of overhauling my factory
I have now completed my powerplant
had some issues with the water at first managed to make it work thankfully
currently this is has a capacity of 555 MW
any tips or suggestions That any of yall feel is missing?

[tidal juniper]

haaaiiiiiii im wondering if 90 degree pipe turn is inefficient

like PCB traces

[fallow siren]

no such thing

[tidal juniper]

ohhh good to know thank you :3

[knotty hornet]

Only in the sense that it will be a longer pipe, so it will use more mats to build (insignificant in the long run)

[storm imp]

Ficsit corp. say its inefficient to close the game.. So methods has been build in to prevent it from closing..

[frozen bolt]

Realised I probably posted in the wrong channel
#satisfactory message
Is my math correct here?

[storm imp]

I wouldn’t do LBF compared to SBF..

Biomass Burners only consume what you’re demand is on the grid.. So if you have say 1000kW Capacity, but production is 500kW consumption, your Biomass Burners will consume SBF at 50% rate.

Meanwhile at LBF while u do get extra bang for the bucks, (only by a little) the Fuel Generators will consume at 100% regardless of your grids demand

However.. LBF serves as super option for Jetpack fuel ;)

[fallow siren]

have u compared it to lbf in bio burner?

using the canister alt so no oil needed

[frozen bolt]

Packaged results in exactly the same energy output as liquid form, so any energy spent packaging it is wasted in this case

[crimson moat]

Liquid biofuel has 11% more energy than solid, so it kinda offsets energy costs of mixing and maybe packaging it

but mainly you would just want to use lbf for biofuel power if you are slooping, because it's an extra stage to sloop and doubles your net power because of that.

[frozen bolt]

If LBF proves worthwhile I'll use that for the majority of my power needs and use SBF as a top up, which will automatically cap for me. No need for it ALL to be SBF

[crimson moat]

you slooping?

[frozen bolt]

That's a valid pont. Once I'm at the scale of having a 250% refinery doing LBF then it's definitely worth slooping, that will help a lot

[frozen bolt]

For example, I'll build way more fuel gens than needed, and clock them so they produce about 100MW less than I'm using. And I'll have a small manifold of 10 or so burners to make the difference and allow me some room for expansion. As I build more I'll adjust the clock rate of the fuel gens

[storm imp]

Yeah, for me the Biofuel Generator with only SBF is much more preferred method, as the LBF takes much more space and time to setup - for (in my world) a marginal improvement..

I'd rather spend time to progress to self sustained power (it does depend on how you play the game naturally)

But yeah its just my opinion on using LBF as power generation, it ain't worth it, compared to what you get from it, and the hassle that you need to spend more time getting SBF, to convert into LBF

[frozen bolt]

In a normal playthrough I'd 100% agree with you there. But I'm doing things a bit differently here 😎

[crimson moat]

Doubling all of your SBF with an extra round of sloops more than pays for the hassle of processing or burning liquid. It's a one-time cost to cut all of your future foraging time in half.

[frozen bolt]

@storm imp for context, I started a new save last night where I'm gonna attempt to complete space elevator using only biomass for power

[storm imp]

Yeah thats why i added that comment about (how you play the game) :)

I have completed Phase 5, using "Green" energy - meaning I had no Coal or Oil sources power, it was Biofuel until Geyser Generators and then from there onto Nuclear

[frozen bolt]

Fun way to play. Limiting power options makes us more creative! I also have a phase 0 save (never built space elevator) with over 200 hours on it, have been farming doggos for parts to build geothermal, and have a APA built too, for no particular reason

[fallow siren]

did u use power storage to store powers from geyser?

bcs doing nuclear from biomass sounds crazy

[storm imp]

The pain we put our self through 😁 - But I get it, and yeah its actually a fun way to play, I was at around 250 Biomass Burners, only using Leaves and Wood (Fully sloped naturally, I'm not insane)

I had destroyed roughly 75% of the entire map biome from my Chainsaw to feed the Biomass Burners :P

Which made me think - how "green" was that tactic :D

[fallow siren]

fun fact, just by collecting every loots from every crash sites in the map, gives you enough to fully research geyser and place a couple of them

[frozen bolt]

I have no doubt, but doggos are more sustainable 😝

[crimson moat]

That reminds me, use Power Storage instead. That way you can run on 100% lbf and just turn some generators on or off every few hours

[frozen bolt]

Possibly, but I think that's more to think about

[storm imp]

Lets say.. I had about 1000 Batteries setup, so I had enough excess power to power up the plant for Nuclear.. When I had setup the first 100 batteries it dorned me that Biomass Burners DIDN'T charge themup.. So they were all charges from the Geysers which took a minute :)

[jovial jacinth]

Are you running a separate belt for each Coal Generator?

[sullen light]

Yes but one has a splitter

[jovial jacinth]

and a water extractor/pipe for each?

[sullen light]

Yes

[jovial jacinth]

You are aware that you're leaving power on the table?

[sullen light]

?

[jovial jacinth]

Each Coal Gen uses 15 Coal and 45 Water, you're producing a TON more of each

You can do like 24 Coal Gens in that spot easy, with higher tiers you can get something like 64

[sullen light]

Ok thx for the tip

[jovial jacinth]

And then you can get rid of those horrible Biofuel generators

[sullen light]

Alr

[wispy heron]

how can i split/distribute my water better for my coal powerplant ?

the pipes are locked at 300 /m

but i need 360 per 8 gens

[crimson moat]

If you clock the generators down a little you can do 120 (1 extractor @ 100%) into 3x40 (3 coal gens @ 88.8888%) with a very simple and short pipe. One junction, no pump so long as gens aren't elevated over +10m from the extractors.

That also reduces the coal consumption from 45 to 40 so it's still easy to work with multiples of 120 coal.

[wispy heron]

thanks

[crimson moat]

without doing that, you can make a common feed pipe for 8 generators and have 1 water extractor connected to the middle and 1 at/near each end

I prefer to use clocking to simplify the piping as complex pipes require more planning and are relatively easy to build wrong in ways that don't work due to obscure and confusing behaviors, and even a few bugs too. The simpler the better. If we don't have to connect multiple extractors together or go near pipe limits, great.

[wispy heron]

i like the clocking better

sounds easier for me

[vapid gorge]

no clocking involved, needs a mk2 belt full of coal. That's it

[plucky tusk]

4-1.5

[unique cypress]

On the other hand, biomass burners already act like power storage. And a ton of bio burners is probably cheaper to build than fuel gens and power storage

[frozen bolt]

The cost of building them will be pretty negligible compared to space elevator parts. I'm gonna be on a relatively small scale here

[distant crow]

Hi

[grim crane]

The belts must belt

[unique cypress]

Time to pull out SF Optimizer and see which production steps should be slooped to save the most power lol

[ornate matrix]

I guess this would be the place to get my learn on for clalcs and planners and such?

[upbeat summit]

any reason to do this and not use the alt bauxite recepie and prouce silica from quartz instead of getting silica as a byproduct?

besides producing silica from quartz might take more space

[unique cypress]

SFTools optimizes for lowest world resource usage. making silica with default alumina is slightly cheaper in terms of WP than sloppy alumina and cheap silica. so it does that. I wouldn't do that, though

[upbeat summit]

yeah that was i was thinking, i thought that maybe in later stages i might req so much quartz that i shouldn't use it rn, but i'll leave that problem to the future me

[orchid brook]

pop quiz how many recipes uses alumunnuim sheets?

[upbeat summit]

uhhhh a lot?, ive seen enough kibitz to realize that every 2nd thing uses aluminium now xD

[orchid brook]

well wrong its 3

[upbeat summit]

lmao, that's still a lot

[upbeat summit]

even turbo rifle ammo req casing... like why 💀

[orchid brook]

i am talking about the sheets not the casing

[upbeat summit]

ohh

[unique cypress]

wrong, 5

[orchid brook]

where are u gone store it?

[upbeat summit]

the rifle ammo? in the dim depot

1 blender produces like 250/min ammo, mor than enough imo

[orchid brook]

i am not talking about hand crafting i mean production

[orchid brook]

i think i only shot like 100 max lol

[unique cypress]

well, you asked about "recipes" 🤷‍♂️

and those are recipes

[orchid brook]

ok sorry

[upbeat summit]

well that "i have unlimited of this shit to this goes brrr" is a nice feeling

[orchid brook]

ok harder one how many "prdouction recipes" uses cable?

[unique cypress]

default osillator, default computer, default HSC and one of the automated wiring recipes (idk which one)

[fallow siren]

default automated wiring recipe uses cable

100/min at normal clock

[orchid brook]

correct if u didnt google it

[frozen bolt]

it's kinda trivial, every step from leaves to LBF will be slooped, everything else won't be

[unique cypress]

you won't be slooping project parts?

[frozen bolt]

it's most efficient to sloop from the end backwards, so final machines in the chain first, and those are generally the highest power ones, when power isn't the concern absolutely go for it, but in this case that will cost more power than slooping the power production itself

[fallow siren]

that extra 30, thanks gaem

[unique cypress]

why not both? sloop power production and the most complex parts you're producing

[storm imp]

Sometimes you hate SCIM.. Just because you have an alternative Recipe available, doesn't mean its very efficient to use - like here for making me do Alien Protein to convert Biomass into Coal, so I can produce Steel Ingots 😁

Yes I know I can just deselect them, but still seems like Alternative Recipes is being overweight over default recipes on these Tools

[unique cypress]

then don't use it? it's an awful calculator for several reasons

[storm imp]

Well it has a neat feature to sync alt. recipes with save data.. Which i cant seem to find on SF-Tools (if its there)

[unique cypress]

that's not a feature that'd make me want to use that piece of garbage but you do you ig
(no, SFTools doesn't have that option)

I just enable all recipes in SFT and then disable the ones I don't have

[grim crane]

The most innefficent belt layout yet 😭

the belt from the right is the main one
it goes till where it meets with the other lift next to the pipe
into a splitter
into the 3 lifts
Those lifts go into splitters
those into the machines
why?
It fills up space with belts and otherwise this would be dead space

[dusky bronze]

not sure where else to send these

[deft lichen]

What's your question?

[dusky bronze]

just explaining some stuff for someone else, wasnt sure where to send them lmao

[grim pelican]

i need help i am pretty new to the game and i want to make this... question is how do i get the 39.785 / the 20 and the 21.505 from only 6 constructors? i need those 20 extra rods for a other factory that make modular frames

[unique cypress]

Smart splitter

[grim pelican]

how do i seth a amount on a smart splitter? the only thing i knew you could do is setting a filter for what goes where

[unique cypress]

Overflow

[vapid gorge]

AFAIK, scim uses the first recipe needed in the list.

[grim pelican]

ow ok so i just make a sushi beld and the 20 goes to overflow

[unique cypress]

Why sushi? Just put overflow on the plate belt

[grim pelican]

ok i have now this so red is the plates and blue is the rods, what i understand is i just connect all the rods to 1 beld and for the 20 rods i just use overflow... or am i wrong?

[vapid gorge]

or clock a group of machines that make exactly 20 rods pm and send them directly to storage

either works.
Just don't forget about clocking. It's the single most versatile logistical tool you have

[grim pelican]

Ok Ty for the help

[orchid brook]

I feel like I am doing something wrong

So i am using aluminium to make traigons and I thought most people did that sooo am I wrong

[unique cypress]

I mean there are 3 recipes. You can use whichever makes most sense to you

[upbeat summit]

so im getting 630 water as byproduct, sooo connecting that to 3 refineries and putting a valve with 30/min limit will work well right? RIGHT?

[unique cypress]

Probably not tbh. Especially with bottom feeding

[upbeat summit]

will the headlift pressure create problems?

or i could do this as well -
this produces 630 water as byproduct, so this valve gives the excess 30 back into the main pipe (the one with water extractors)

[upbeat summit]

and then i could seperate these 3 from the rest 2

[grim crane]

Best way to balance 3000 Items into 4 belts of 750, with 2 belts being 1200 and one 600?
just split the 2 full belts into 4 and than the 600 belt into 4 and merge those together?

or is there a way to make it take up less space?

[unique cypress]

I feel like anything I suggest will take up more space lol

[grim crane]

Oh no

Yk maybe you should!
Efficency

My no clipping Solution is oversied anyways...

My numbers dont match...

Ahh i seee

[dusky dust]

Nearly starved my U8 nuclear plant by not hooking up literally half the concrete it needed. :D

[grim crane]

Fun

I have 2 Recycle systems in my Nuclear and Oscilator Hybrid factory

I hope this works 💀

[dusky dust]

Caught it basically just in time; had been building from the "back" and letting things fill up as I built, so there was a pretty healthy concrete buffer available in the running machines, so it took at little while before it was actually looking dry. Just a chance glancing at the belts that I noticed the concrete belts were looking awfully thin

[grim crane]

I have a bit of overproduction of rubber and Plastic but still
this will be fun...

[grim crane]

@oblique hollow Sry a question
do Pumps have a sort of suction force in a pipe when there is fluid in it?
so it activly also sucks in Fluid isntead of only pushing it

[oblique hollow]

no, no suction force

only push

the pipe on the pump's input must have enough pressure to push fluid into the pump

else the pump cant do anything

[grim crane]

k

[grim crane]

Ok so
if i sloop the manufacturers for 25 Uranium fuel rods...

How overkill would that be xd

[dusky bronze]

not enough

would probably get you about 300GW tho

[grim crane]

If i need more ill just double my uranium production
i have enough quartz oscillators for 300

[vapid gorge]

overflow manifolds with smart splitters. Least space

[vapid gorge]

is this for bauxite? yeah don't feed from below or use valves

[grim crane]

With my setup it would take up huge space lol

[brisk smelt]

so 50 in total?

[grim crane]

Central nervous system ahhh factory rn

[brisk smelt]

50 rods is 625gw

[vapid gorge]

if the belts are every near each other, like you're suggesting, all it would be is a few smart splitters and a couple connections. . I don't think you understand smart splitters if you think it'll be a mess

[brisk smelt]

in 100 reactors

[grim crane]

Btw with space i mean like Belts in the middle of my base

[grim crane]

My problem is my "limited" belt spacing and the fact that the productions are so spread out decently

Also i dislike using Smart splitters for anything besides Overflow

[vapid gorge]

I assume your beltsd you're 'balancing' are near each other at SOME point?

[grim crane]

In the basement

[vapid gorge]

if so they can split to wherever they want after the smart splitters.

[vapid gorge]

you're the one complaining about taking up space. Obviously it's not actually an issue if you made that

[grim crane]

I need smt that is compact enough to not use up to much space and visual space and needs to be simple enough that i will understand how it works when im full on Drunk...

[vapid gorge]

smart splitters.
will take up like ... 1/50th that tower of mess and is extremely simple

if you hate smart splitters yeah go off, but then don't complain when there exists a very simple and compact solution in front of your face

[grim crane]

I like
already have a solution now that is small enough
Also wait i just saw you replied to my quartz thing

i did the caterium thing in DMS

[vapid gorge]

I mean it applies to all the belt balaning

[grim crane]

Yeah no that thing is just 3 belts and 2 containers balancing it out xd

[vapid gorge]

are you using containers to 'balance' things?

[grim crane]

They are just there as a buffer for items lol

I like to put them in the middle of the balancers for some reason

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure why you would need to buffer them, unless it's from receiving items from a train?

but also , if you care about them actually balancing don't use containers

they don't split things evenly

[grim crane]

Its after a recylce system so shit happens

[vapid gorge]

and the priority of their outputs change

[grim crane]

I use small containers

not big containers

Main thing is buffering and that i have a acces to the whole system for a emergeny situation with one of my two recycle systems
as both rely on Balancing for the outputs

Idk why i build a nuclear factory with recycle systems 😭

(One is just because im to lazy to get plastic to sink some byproduct water lol)

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you mean by recycle system, do you just mean the recipes recycled plastic/rubber?

[grim crane]

That

and for the silica and quartz stuff i have left over water

that i use for the iron that produces the silica

[vapid gorge]

ah, well it's easier to not have the plastic/rubber in an actual loop. Never any buffering needed or looping into itself. Easily avoided

[unique cypress]

plubber recycling is pretty easy to set up if you know how

[vapid gorge]

you still get the extra output

[grim crane]

This is the most annoying part of this whole thing
Cus fuck your 200 water per minute

[vapid gorge]

Why? Just have a dedicated blender that uses only waste water

easily solved with clocking

[grim crane]

Its just one blender

[vapid gorge]

like the bauxite chain

you can split it into 2

[vapid gorge]

or use it in the previous step of disolved silica

[unique cypress]

never noticed this recipe just turns 10 water into 8 lol

[grim crane]

It uses its own Water to produce iron ingots that are used in the chain for the Dissolved Silica
And so if the IRon Ingots have a problem this has a problem what cuts of the Water supply for the iron ingots

[knotty hornet]

Keep your systems separate

[vapid gorge]

thats certainly one of the reasons to keep seperate production systems isolated

[grim crane]

Thats why i have this whole section xd

[knotty hornet]

Keep the nitric and iron on its own system

[vapid gorge]

just as long as you know you don't have to link them up

[grim crane]

the linking was conviniant

[vapid gorge]

it sounds like you were frustrated 😛

[grim crane]

Cus it also power my cast screws and other stuff

[knotty hornet]

Cuz they don't output any water, only consume

[vapid gorge]

"This is the most annoying part of this whole thing
Cus fuck your 200 water per minute"

[grim crane]

No
200 is perfect for 4 refineries

But i should have maybe not linked those exact refinneries back to the iron plates xd

But its efficent i guess

[vapid gorge]

... you made interlinked dependencies with by product fluid

[grim crane]

Like look how neat and efficent this is

[vapid gorge]

I'm shocked it's working at all

[knotty hornet]

If all your systems are interconnected by water, then one part messing up messes everything up

[grim crane]

I gave it a bit of a kickstart
And it needs only 50 water per minute of byproduct to power itself

[knotty hornet]

If you loop the output of the blender back to its own input, and scale down the amount of water going into it, it will work.

I have 12 blenders doing this same thing

[grim crane]

That would have made the amount of pipes more by one

[vapid gorge]

it's more that doing that is massive pain in the ass and depending on how you did it, a small kick might knock it over

[knotty hornet]

The number of pipes is mostly irrelevant

[grim crane]

It has now been working for about 10 hours

[grim crane]

Not to mee!

My pipes are alerady a mess

[knotty hornet]

This will simplify it

You just loop it back

Give it only the extra 50/min, and let er rip

[grim crane]

It works
and it only needs a fraction
i could probably just switch out which refinery suplies the iron for the cast/Plate production

But this system should never stop flowing
and when it does it has a diffrent problem

[knotty hornet]

So the number of pipes matters, but their length doesn't?

Or was this just to enforce symmetry

[grim crane]

its a pretty short pipe
and a sepereate water pipe for those refiniers would be longer

I save one full pipe coming from the lake

[grim crane]

And that yeah, the whole why it looks like that is just because thats where i had space to have a neat floor hole
the other side is half in a rounded foundation

[vapid gorge]

I mean there's stuttering happening this image...

[vapid gorge]

I'd be a little worried about the balance of the whole thing

[knotty hornet]

Hmmm

[knotty hornet]

I see it now

[grim crane]

No space

[knotty hornet]

I used to do this and it never worked

[grim crane]

not rly
its just distantz plus DLSS

[knotty hornet]

I switched to looping back the water because it worked.

This method always gave me the exact same issue you are having.

[grim crane]

I mean that is the smarter solution
but you are more reliant on the output
because i not just use 1/4 of the output for the thing

[vapid gorge]

the one next to it is blue and normal, the ones to the right are yellow stutter

[knotty hornet]

Bro's got CHEATED ALL the sloops

[grim crane]

long live the give command xd

[knotty hornet]

Nvm

[grim crane]

hey hey dont give me that look
either its 600 refiniers or sloops

And for my own sanity with pipes i went this way

[fallow siren]

overclocking*

[knotty hornet]

I feel like people miss the point of sloops

You are not supposed to rely on them like that

You are supposed to be making big factories

[grim crane]

i do try to avoid using them

[knotty hornet]

Sloops are specialized tools, not standard parts

[grim crane]

This whole part is slooped and fully overclocked...
because otherwise i would need all the space just for Caterium and copper refinieres

[knotty hornet]

That's why they are limited.

Okay?

[grim crane]

its also the only slooped part in my whole factory rn
because i hate using them

but i hate refinieres more

[knotty hornet]

We are not amused

[grim crane]

Yeah idc
You build all the refinieres for me and than ill delete them

[knotty hornet]

Okay

Wouldn't be the first 400 refinery build I've done

[grim crane]

yeah 400 refiniers aint bad
If its the only 400 refiniers you build lol

And if they dont use WATER

[knotty hornet]

Water is not bad

[grim crane]

I despise using water...
because i can never get the collectores nicely set up

[knotty hornet]

You just have to use the waste water in the same place and not make other processes rely on it

Cuz then one fault fucks the whole water system up

[grim crane]

Basement of shame

[grim crane]

I mean thats the one part that is annoying me the least 😭
Because it looks clean and it works

[knotty hornet]

We have very different build styles, you should see how MY basement looks here lmao

[grim crane]

Yeah im sry for the mess lol

[knotty hornet]

You would vomit

Oh no

Yours is nice

[fallow siren]

basement? whats that?

[grim crane]

Oh that also works xd

i love my basements

[knotty hornet]

This first photo is where Refined Power mod is sick. You can put dams on all those water falls and get over 3000/min water and generate about 1500MW at the same time.

[grim crane]

Btw dont question why there is no power... my main factory is out of service rn because of power constraints

[grim crane]

i love using mods
but not using mods that i would rely on for my stuff to work

Cosmetic mods are fine
Like the giant statue and etc

I even shy away from structural solutions lol

And sadly my favourite mod isnt working 😭

Smart pls i need you back

Why do i have so many belt basements xd
My outpost alone has 2, plus now two more from the nuclear/quartz facility
and my main base has 4

This aluminium highway is still the most stupid thing i ever build

[glass nacelle]

Need some math help guys :c

[knotty hornet]

at your service

[glass nacelle]

I'm limited to mark 2 belts currently

Everything else is set up nicely, just struggling to work out how to split this up using only mk2 belts/lifts

[knotty hornet]

build the screw constructors feeding directly into the assemblers.
you're gonna need 3 assemblers clocked down.
have each of them fed by two up-clocked constructors that merge.

you will stay below belt limit cuz each assembler only needs 100/min

[glass nacelle]

is there a solution that doesn't require using overclocking?

[knotty hornet]

use 3 underclocked constructors per assembler

basically, break it down into cells

[glass nacelle]

i think i understand.

40 screws pm * 3 = 120 but underclocked to meet the needs of 1 assembler (100 screws pm at normal clock speed)

so i need 100 screws coming out of 3 constructors per minute?

[knotty hornet]

yeah, so have them each produce 100/3

you'll also save power by underclocking

(might be usefull early in the game)

[glass nacelle]

so i could do this in the future, what's the math formula i need to use to work out the clock speed of each of the constructors making screws?

100 can't go into 3 perfectly, they would each need to make 33.33333 right?

[knotty hornet]

yes, and you can also type formulas into the clock speed/production rate fields

so you could literally just type 100/3 in the bottom field

[glass nacelle]

:O

:OOO I just did that

that's cool!

thank you!

[knotty hornet]

🫡 you're very welcome

[wind spade]

That's not accurate though (but some people don't care about perfect 100% accuracy)

[wind spade]

Two make 33.333, one 33.334

Or any other combimation (e.g. two make 40, one make 20)

[heady vine]

this channel has math and i htink I have math problem

so I made a BP with 3 stories of 2 rows of 4 assemblers
put in recipe for rod and reinf plates making cubes
so it should be 12 * 24 = 288 rods per minute
so the input belt is mk4,
first splitter takes 2 sides that feed 3 assemblers each, meaning that it passes 216 rods/m in its central output

but, for some reason, the setup is not stable
after about 2 iterations fursthest assemblers are not getting enough rods
and I don't understand why

[twilit mango]

guys I built a factory from satisfactorytools but it seems I need to increase output of some items, can I do that and view somewhere what changed so I know what machines I gotta add or tweak

[vapid gorge]

you probably have a low mk belt hiding

[vapid gorge]

sorry can you explain what you mean exactly?

[twilit mango]

so I made a factory in satisfactorytools.com and built it ingame and now I need to increase output of some items but when you change that it doesnt tell you what changed

I don't wanna go through each machine to see whats missing

[vapid gorge]

what exactly are you trying to change?

[twilit mango]

many things

[vapid gorge]

if you want specific answers you're going to have give specific details

[twilit mango]

I need to know if theres a way to see what changed

So I know what to change

[vapid gorge]

clone the tab then make the change in one of them and compare?

but this is why it's generally easierto jus build a new factory

[twilit mango]

this took me days to build...

[heady vine]

well thing is that I don't. I double checked. there aren't as many of them

[vapid gorge]

ok follow the problem backwards, is something choking? that suggestions a flow issue

[vapid gorge]

ok be specific. Like link your plan and what you're tryign to change

[twilit mango]

Its supposed to be a mega factory so ill always be changing it

[vapid gorge]

oh and you're actually trying to make it run in a stable way? changing the whole thing every time you want ot add a new section? no wonder it took you days.

[heady vine]

I think thing is that after turning on power for assemblers, they stat filling their buffers, which makes the ones closer to input get many more rods, starving those that are further

[vapid gorge]

yeah don't do that.

if you DO do that, make it once and don't touch it again

[heady vine]

am I wrong or in the past it was possible to fill buffers without power?

[vapid gorge]

that sho9uldn't matter with a manifold. If yo uhave enough parts per min and a fast enough belt it'll balance out

[vapid gorge]

only generators ever

[heady vine]

it shouldn't but it does
guess belts have enough to feed first couple iterations but then it starves until first consumers fill their buffers

but I don't have enough rods around to test it for longer time 🙂

[vapid gorge]

You e either mathed wrong or you have a flow issue

Or both

Flow issue coukd be one machine not connected to its output

So like I said, follow the items backwards. If you have a flow issue your producers will be clogged

If they don’t end up clogged ? Math issue

[upbeat summit]

so SFT reccomends using this recepie, but if i go with the one that req silica, i produce double the amount of iron ingots, so if i can, is it worth it to bring in silica to produce more ingots (im assuming they will be needed a lot in future, that's why)

[heady vine]

for assemblers making frames to get clogged that's 25 minutes IRL
even if they were... I wouldn't notice yet

[vapid gorge]

First - tools picks recipes based on its own weighted values.

It has no idea where you want to build or what else you want to build or what other values of recipes you have

So really, swap recipes in and out until you get something that uses the resources you want

[heady vine]

with this recipe, when assembler is steady working it takes 12 rods per minute
but right after starting, it will consume as much as belt provides until buffer is full
which is more than 12/m, which makes consumers further down the flow starve

[upbeat summit]

i mean im fine doing what the tool recc (less work for me xD) but producing twice the amount of ingots is tempting

thats all xD

[vapid gorge]

Like every thing it depends on if it’s worth while to you

Personally I always do pure ingots. Much less works easier to just make more scrap

[wind spade]

just to check - are you using maximise?

[upbeat summit]

what do you mean by maximise?

[wind spade]

in the tool

what is the production goal for that production line

[upbeat summit]

uhh it's a very vague list of products that i thought i should do first , like 10/min heat sink, 10/min supercomp etc etc

[vapid gorge]

You probably want to break that up into multiple plans

[upbeat summit]

so like a single factory producing just supercomputers?

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it makes life much easier

Have them all on the same place still if you want?

[upbeat summit]

well i produced every single item for phase 3 in a single plan and then slapped dim depots on them, and it worked out perfectly, so i thought i might do the same again but on a much smaller scale

[upbeat summit]

yeah that could work

[vapid gorge]

It’s an option, but often easier broken down. Really up to you and your approach

Personally if I’m just going up the tiers o don’t even make plans

[upbeat summit]

it's just that when i input all the products in the list i get an exact idea like "oh i need 44 refineries to produce this much copper ingots" etc etc

[vapid gorge]

I just slap things together and let it build up

[upbeat summit]

lmao that works too

[vapid gorge]

But you do you, all of this is very subjective to how you like to do things

I found I changed my style a couple times over the course of a few run throughs

[grim crane]

Hell na my Save game corrupted?

I clsoed the game after it was finished wtf

fuck this autosave very 10 minutes

[heady vine]

I avoid this cause I don't like making the same low-tier parts factories at different scale all over the place

so that's why I tend to make it compute everything and then break down at chokepoints, like oil products, ingots etc

[vapid gorge]

it's a lot more logistics planning an d building vs more factory and location planning. Really up to you what you like

[grim crane]

There is no way to do radioactive shielding for a factory?
So the lower floors of of my factory arent as bad
And only the backside and upper levels where i do radioactive stuff

[unique cypress]

No, radiation is only affected by the item type, the item amount and distance

[grim crane]

Mhh

this is gonna be funny
There is like a small bubble where its fine on the entrance and above
And and like 2 floors up you die of radioation without a suit because of a production on like level 10

[grim crane]

All the belts are done
Now i just need to hookup the ai limiters to the 20 Manufacturers xd

[crimson moat]

do you have machine buffers full of radioactive material?

[grim crane]

Not rly
they are just at the top floor
And one uranium belt waaay at the back in a seperate tower

[crimson moat]

what are those manufacturers making

[grim crane]

The two on the top are fuel rods
but the lower floor is basically unusable without a suit

[crimson moat]

you have them connected in series, so you have 7 manufacturers but 5 of them are going to have a stack of 200 encased uranium cells in their input buffers

[grim crane]

Its 17

17 for fuel rods

[crimson moat]

15 of them then will have 200 encased uranium cells in input buffers

[grim crane]

the radius of radioactivity gets higher the more you stack them right?

[crimson moat]

yeah

[grim crane]

AH fuck it

This building is unusable now i guess

[crimson moat]

if you run them in parallel, you can produce that item with 0-50x encased uranium cells in the buffer (avg 25). Which makes about 15% of the radiation of having a 200 stack in each one

[grim crane]

that would be better yeah

But i just finished the belting and i dont rly wanna change it now 💀

[crimson moat]

that's even a bad case because this recipe takes 50% of a buffer of encased cells to make 1 item, which is unusual

[grim crane]

Ill just have to life with it
or find a mod or so

I now need to wait for my quartz osciliators to spool up

Having 80 manufacturers in manifold for AI limiters is kinda stupid

and its such a low quantity item
will take a while xd

Oh shit i need to be fast...

Im draining my batteries already

Time to disconnect my steel plant

only my train network and this damm Nuclear/oscilator facors has a Consumption of nearly 92GW

Actually send help

Mhh yes...

That is just the turbo fuel plant

So everything else is the new nuclear factory 💀
I need to be fast with the reactor building

[orchid brook]

this realy hard i wanna make 45 HMF and these are the stuff i have and i cant get any more limestone the closest node is 2km away from the base

[grim crane]

Big belt time?

[orchid brook]

idk what recipes to use

like for screws i can use the compact coal to make steel and then use the steel screw but i need concret

[unique cypress]

and that's exactly why you don't use modeler to plan recipes

[orchid brook]

ohhhhhh i forgot to tools lemm give it a try

[unique cypress]

I'd either do this
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=67gaBD9oaAx45Zz79jqW
or this
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=lMw2XvrHpOUkTLyIlpiW

[orchid brook]

these wont work let me give it my stuff and see what pops up and i guess i am going a hard drive huntagain

welllll i guess i am getting more limestone

[wind spade]

Put 0 for bauxite

[orchid brook]

ok lemme try

[wind spade]

It bugs out when there's no number

[orchid brook]

nopes

WAIT HOLD UP I FORGOT TO ADD THE OIL

IT WORKED

[cloud rock]

Hello, hope this is the right place to pose this question: I've just recently started dabbling with vehicles and I've encountered the load/unload pause... I'm still early game and only have mk2 belts. Am I correct that the only way for 100% efficiency for 'downstream' factory is to use 1 tier higher belt and overclocked miner (+/-10%) on resource side of route to fill station and downstream also use 1 tier higher belt on output of station into buffer and then go out with the lower tier belt? example: i want to move 240 items per minute to a factory. I would need mk3 belts so that my 2 slightly overclocked mk1 miners can move slightly more than 120items/m each into station. At the other end i would also need mk3 belts into storage containers as buffer (and smart splitter for possible very slight overflow) and then go back down to mk2 belts to feed a constant 240items/m to my factory correct? If so, with only mk2 belts now it wouldn't be worth it setting up multiple stations because i'd need to step down to mk1 belts...

[orchid brook]

300 FOUNDERYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUDGE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WHARRRA I DO

thank god i am gone get power shards by the time i do this

[unique cypress]

why are you using compacted steel?

[orchid brook]

this is right nect to my rocket fuel plant so i thought i do use the compact coal

[crimson moat]

If you're talking about tractors/trucks, i'm not sure. For trains, they have 2 inputs so you can put 1 belt into an industrial storage container and 2 belts from the container to the train.

I have never really exploited tractors/trucks, i use belts/trains/drones instead. They kinda work better.

[cloud rock]

but trains also suffer from load/unload pause do they not?

[vapid gorge]

only trains

but you can buffer them and its fine

[crimson moat]

they have 2 inputs so you can put 1 belt into an industrial storage container and 2 belts from the container to the train.

This allows you to transfer at a 2 belt rate, when you only need 1 belt on avg.

[cloud rock]

but a buffer will eventually drain at the downstream side would it not?

[crimson moat]

no

You put 120 into buffer always

when the station isn't locked, it drains 240

[crimson moat]

so the storage container stops the input belt from idling, and then the station drains it to catches up from the locked periods

[vapid gorge]

1 belt into a container, 2 belts from container to platform.

reverse for unload

ISC = dobule container, P = platform

the main issue really is your train return time

even if you have 1 train going between 2 stops, you can often only do 1 belt per platform (buffered)

if you plan on hitting many stations, increasing the travel time, you might get less throughput

[cloud rock]

1 in 2 out into station, then other end 2 out into buffer and only 1 out to factory.... dont have that container yet but i think i get it... my solution seems pretty much the same but I have to compensate with belt speeds and a little more resource input... the higher tier container only eliminates the need for higher resource input at the beginning, but effectively speaking it's only one belt in and out per station but at least you can get 100% in and out that way... i think i get it... i guess i'll do some manual crafting to unlock the industrial container... thx all

[grim crane]

is the water usage of a nuclear reactor linear or exponential?

linear right?
idk why i remmeber it as exponential

mhh..
i might just make the needed water a Pakckaged water loop..
And no way in hell that im laying those pipes

[wind spade]

Build reactors in front of water extractors

[grim crane]

Uhh
i aint gonna ship the fuel rods around the world to the enxt big lake

Or ocean
the lake is already mostly coverd by buildings

the reactor building will be right here in the void behind the tower lol
to complete the city

what i could do is 2 unpackers per reactor

direct input from below or later above

1 Extractor to 2 Packagers
4 packars to 2 unpackers
2 unpackers to one reactor
simple enough

so 50 * 2 * 4

oh yeah belting makes way more sense
25 belts both direction and no Pumping to deal with

[wind spade]

That's easier than the piping 🙂

[grim crane]

yeah true

and a beach side Plant would look rly nice
i also know a spot for it

But i have diffrent plans for how i want my nuclear plant to look like,

the beach asthethic is reserved for a future project

so a 50 belt packaged water closed loop it is

[cloud rock]

another question about vehicles and station transfer rates... Am i correct that wait time+loading time+trip time should either be exactly right OR SHORTER so that the resource side never overflows. I'm thinking if it's shorter yes it will load less but at the unload sight 'less time has passed' for belts to move stuff so i wont run dry, but if i overflow the resource side because of too long wait times for example then those resources are 'lost' and wont make it to unload sight and there it will run 'dry' eventually even though the vehicle has a full load because of long wait time????

to put it another way, if enough time passes that resource side overflows it means enough time passed for unload sight to drain correct? But if a roundtrip is slightly shorter than exactly right it shouldn't matter?

[crimson moat]

Overflowing or not is based on throughput because storage containers exist. The trip time only matters indirectly because of its impact on throughput (but it's not the only variable there). A trip time of 1 minute or 1 hour can work fine.

[cloud rock]

if input resource side is 120 and unload sight where factory is uses 120 then my statement should be correct no?

[crimson moat]

if the vehicle moves less than 120/min, recieving end will starve. If it's capable of moving >=120/min, it won't

you seem to be making it very complicated

[cloud rock]

the vehicle im my example is not the limiting factor... it's time... (and max capacity of vehicle and stations etc etc... but my route is quite short (2,5min round trip) so i have to add wait time for buffer sto fill). if i wait too long the factory side will have drained....

[crimson moat]

If the vehicle is not the limiting factor and you have enough storage boxes on both ends (which is usually just 1 box, but may be more in extreme cases) then your stores on the output side will be refreshed before they empty.

If the vehicle is the limiting factor, there are many ways to improve it; trip time is a variable but not the only one. Twice as many carts/trucks for example can move twice as much stuff.

[knotty hornet]

Irrelevant when the three are merging again anyway, the final output from all 3 will still be 100.

We already had this discussion a while back about the floating point errors and the massive time scales required to manifest issues with it; it didn't seem pertinent to a first-time player, andi don't care to rehash it.

#math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

Relevant for people who want 100% efficiency 🙂

[plucky tusk]

Only really need 100% on power production

[crimson moat]

not even then, it's easy to downclock a gen so that your actual consumption is 99.999% of what it should be on paper and everything runs continuously

or to put the error in your favor (it will try to slightly OVER produce, rather than under)

[plucky tusk]

Slightly over is what i usually go for

Especially for pipes

[knotty hornet]

Another fun thing to do with Comp.Coal. -- bring a bit of extra sulfur and make Fine Black Powder to feed an ammo factory 😏 you probably have a bit of turbofuel and aluminum to spare.

[orchid brook]

nahhhh that is another project boi a crazy one

i am actaly gone do this

[unique cypress]

Can't wait to see you throw a nuke every 3 seconds until the end of time

[orchid brook]

oh trust me i will

aint no way you see any tree when i am done

[knotty hornet]

AMMO FACTORY

But hey, no rebar?

[orchid brook]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH S--- I FORGOT

[knotty hornet]

Explosive rebar is basically shootable nobelisk.

And also, no filters?

[orchid brook]

nah not using them that much like i have 1 chest worth of them

[knotty hornet]

Fair (for now)

You probably have resins sinking from the HOR step, just turn em into fabric. You already have coal and iron for the steel foundries, just make a few plates, and you're golden

[unique cypress]

wait until you do a nuke plant and burn through the entire container in 15h

[orchid brook]

i am not going to do nucluar "power" in my world

[knotty hornet]

Yeahhh... plus, once you bring rebar into the picture, you'll be using quickwire (for stun rebar), so at that rate, you just need aluminum casings and you got radiation filters as well.

[knotty hornet]

Also fair

[orchid brook]

that is all the oil (excapt 150) in the blue lake

[knotty hornet]

Y'all got any more of them pixels??

[unique cypress]

I recommend not using pipes at 600/min exactly

[upbeat summit]

help how do i place signals on this?

[unique cypress]

found the factorio player 🤣

[upbeat summit]

naaaah this is my first factory game 😭

[upbeat summit]

anyways i found a yt vid, will update if that worked or not

[frosty owl]

What did you use to make this or what's your source?

[unique cypress]

https://docs.ficsit.app/satisfactory-modding/latest/CommunityResources/TrainSignalGuide.html

[grim pelican]

i need help i designed a blueprint but i cant place it when i save it and i want to place it its just invisible the only thing that i see is a arrow and when i try to place it there is nothing but i lose my materials. how can i fix this?

[knotty hornet]

Try relogging the game, this happened to me once and that fixed it.

[grim pelican]

i tried but didnt work but i found the problem, its known by satisfactory becaus my session name had a space and i had to change my name without a space

[knotty hornet]

Wait huh?

Like, a space anywhere in the name?

[plucky tusk]

I heard abt that a while ago

Kinda a funny bug

[grim pelican]

yeah so you cant have a space in your server name otherwise your blueprint get buggy and you cant place them... its a crazy bug but i fixed it i just had to change the name of my server and it was fixed

[knotty hornet]

That's strange, cuz my session name is "Wild World" and i never had that (the bug happened in my friend's world, which was called "ballzzz")

[grim crane]

trying to kickstart one of multiple Packaged water loops rn 💀

Im letting it all the 5 belts overflow with packaged water before i start the flow into the plants

[grim pelican]

yeah its a name bug so lets say your friend server is ballzzz well the game will punish you becaus the name is inpropriet

[frosty owl]

That's where adding some storages might prove useful ^^

[grim crane]

Im currently trying to redesign the flow of it with a mixer to balance all 25 (future 50) belts and have one extra with buffers

[grim crane]

The cube of "sanity"

[grim crane]

i think i lost the point lol, ill finish this tmr because i think its funny to have a random cube of belts for no actuall good reason 😭💀

i will also have to make a reversed version of this 💀😭

[hearty orbit]

what am i looking at :-

[grim crane]

a 25:25 mixer with a buffer lane so i can put items in by hand 😭💀

its rly stupid

[hearty orbit]

i cant tell if its genius or if im stupid pprobably both

[grim crane]

its genually just rly stupid

its to balance out empty canisters mostly

[dusky dust]

(packaging loops can be done via easily-blueprintable closed loops which require zero package management )

[fading swan]

I just finished phase 2 of the space elevator and as of now, I have steel production set (i can scale it up a lot with the extra space I set aside), I have motor production (but it isnt very good) and all the other regular parts (plates and reinforced ones rods wire cables konk creet etc) and I'm running off 1500 mw of coal right now. Could anyone point me where I should go next? I was thinking small plastic production -> fuel power as fast as possible but I'm not sure thats the right choice.

[crimson moat]

Jetpack with liquid biofuel, rifle, explore for hard drives / mercers / sloops until you have all of the good p3 recipies

whenever you get a hard drive you can drop MAM and start it researching, then delete the MAM and it will still be working

stuff to get: heavy encased frames, encased industrial pipe, heavy oil residue, diluted packaged fuel, recycled plastic, recycled rubber etc

(preferably with heavy oil residue + diluted packaged fuel) you can make a large fuel powerplant and then go from there

I usually suggest some tickets to buy items that unlock e.g. mk.2 pipe if you don't have them automated. It's not much.

[fading swan]

Im lame and i play with alt recipes unlocked, would this change your recommendations for what to go for?

[crimson moat]

You still benefit massively from picking up some mercers and sloops, but it's a lot simpler that way. You can go build HOR + diluted packaged fuel powerplant

600 oil = 1600 fuel = 20 GW

[fading swan]

what are they used for now? i havent played since the 1.0 release

[crimson moat]

Sloops double production on machines without increasing input resource cost, so you put 1x in but get 2x out. For some things like liquid biofuel you can sloop multiple steps like wood to biomass to solid biomass to liquid biofuel, and get 4x or 8x multipliers. They also increase power draw to 4x, but that's not a particularly problematic drawback given their strength and convenience.

Mercer spheres let you make item uploaders which can automatically send items to an extra inventory for you, allowing you to access those items from anywhere - e.g. for build gun, or to pull out into your real inventory and do stuff with. They're massive QOL

[fading swan]

oh wow thats actually insane, so if i connect all my basic resources to the uploaders i dont need to carry them around?

[crimson moat]

yeah

[fading swan]

and the sloop is even crazier, thanks!

[fading swan]

Could it be worth building a large scale packaged fuel plant so i can take it around the map where i need it or should i worry about trains and large scale transport later

[crimson moat]

trains run on electricity only

trains or drones are pretty good for moving fuel around, other vehicles not so much i think

for the most part you just need to burn it for power

[fading swan]

so i could just build my power at the fuel production plant?

[crimson moat]

yeah

[real current]

wow... first time i did this!

[grim crane]

yes BUT, i want it to be perfectly balanced when im already doing 90k items a minite

[frosty owl]

Uhm... Balancing requirements shouldn't be affected by the choice of making fuel in small loops or not
Arguably, smaller systems are easier to handle (and, thus, keep balanced)

[vapid gorge]

they would be balanced? as it's a 1:1 loop

[grim crane]

this is a water transportation loop for my nuclear power plant

[vapid gorge]

sounds like you're talking about diluted packaged fuel?

[grim crane]

not the amount of empty canisters

[vapid gorge]

wdym?

you put a stack of empties in hte packager , let it rip.

[frosty owl]

Sure, just replace "fuel" with "water" in my sentence 😅

[grim crane]

i want the amount of empty canisters to self balance between 50 belts and the end

with one buffer belt for about 4 containers worth of canisters

i have by accident produced maybe 10 big containers of canisters

this whole system is unreasonable from the start

so im gonna make it even worse

[knotty hornet]

This seems excessively over-engineered

[grim crane]

im german, thats my speciallity

i did btw remove the water loop iron thing in my quartz production

it worked but i wanted to be fully sure it will work forever

[covert iris]

Im struggling to figure out how many generators I need for 4800 rocket fuel per min

Im bad at math

[grim crane]

a loot

[unique cypress]

4800/(4+1/6)

so 1152

[covert iris]

Ok, thats what I got too but assumed it would be wrong, cause that means i would have 4 mil power lol

[unique cypress]

it's gonna be 288 GW

[grim crane]

Finished the packing facility for 30k water xd

[wind spade]

that looks like suffering with suffering flavor and extra suffering

[grim crane]

yes

But im saving like 2km of pipe per pipe minimum
and if I suffer i want it to be Overkill asfuck

[twilit mango]

anyone got tips how to make it more readable?

[dusky dust]

Use something other than Modeler