math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

mostly talking about a literal exploit that negates creating travel infrastructure.

That's the realm of mods honestly

[limpid vapor]

Hardly an exploit if they patched it back in after removing it, at that point it's a feature

[lone igloo]

exactly what I said

[wind spade]

I'm fine with QOL, but I want balanced QOL

[dusky dust]

Acknowledging community pressure and allowing an exploit which you'd otherwise ideally not want in the game doesn't exactly make it a top-level feature. :) Though yeah, they did promote it to "officially unofficial" or whatever when they fixed it after the physics changes

I'm pretty sure the devs still consider it something of an exploit, even if they've grudgingly decided to keep it in the game. :)

(possibly just semantics, I know, but c'est la vie)

(I'm not really anti-cannon myself, though I rarely use 'em)

[limpid vapor]

i just dont personally see how its something inherently unbalanced considering you dont really even need hypertubes for travel even if we took cannons out of the equation

it doesnt accelerate game tempo to a point where it breaks anything

the concept of travel time is often a point of time wasting in games

there is not much to be gained from travelling slower

[wind spade]

"teleport anywhere in 10 seconds practically for free with T3 tech" is very much unbalanced considering that next similar feature is portals in T9 which require tons of infrastructure and resources to keep working

[limpid vapor]

which are just as optional

[hazy crow]

There is something to say about the progress of traversal tools though, and the cannons basically invalidate 99% of other tools, including all later ones

[wind spade]

it's not about optionality, it's about balance

[limpid vapor]

not everything needs to be balanced, perfectly balanced games are boring

[hazy crow]

Like, "why do you not start the game with a jetpack" is a pretty easy question to answer

Progress is fun

[lone igloo]

last thing I wanna do is spend most of my time traveling while playing a factory game. I will go travel while exploring not when in middle of building. I cba to agree with use normal hypertubes. I got a life outside this game and sometimes only allowed to play around 2ish hours a day as I have family. 10 minutes on travel doing nothing is not fair on people like me. I will go exploring and can travel then.

[limpid vapor]

so are cannons, no one is forcing anyone to construct a cannon

[unique cypress]

just like ficsonium is made obsolete by sinking plutonium even before it's unlocked 🙃

[wind spade]

ficsonium does something else tho

[unique cypress]

it really doesn't

[wind spade]

it really does

[unique cypress]

both just make power. it's the same power

[wind spade]

it makes sinkless nuclear

[unique cypress]

and why would the average player care about that?

[wind spade]

why not?

[limpid vapor]

just a bunch of extra steps with an effectively identical outcome

[wind spade]

it's a sandbox game, it gives option that isn't possible by other means

[unique cypress]

just like portals are a different option than HT launchers 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

that isn't possible by other means

[limpid vapor]

extra steps with an effectively identical outcome

[unique cypress]

with hypertubes I can't get from A to B without being in between. portals can

[wind spade]

?

[lone igloo]

Portals = instant, HT Launcher take time.

[wind spade]

it's still effectively instant

[unique cypress]

it's just as an arbitrary, meaningless restriction as sinkless nuclear

[lone igloo]

Portals should be 100% in phase 4 not phase 5

mk1 BP designer should not exist

[wind spade]

portals are fine where they are, hypertubes should not have the exploit

[unique cypress]

if you for whatever reason care about sinkless nuclear, I could say I care about being able to move between A and B without actually existing inbetween

it's about as relevant

[wind spade]

except people care about the first one, but not the second one

[unique cypress]

I don't see anyone caring about sinkless fuel power, why would anyone care about sinkless nuclear

[wind spade]

because you actively ignore people who do

[lone igloo]

because HT exploit is a useful non game breaking feature that has been added back.

[unique cypress]

and no, I didn't see anyone use ficsonium specifically because they don't like sinking

[lone igloo]

Without it majority of people would complain so hard about distance of travel

[wind spade]

distance of travel is intentional thing in the game

[lone igloo]

yeah for the non workers of the game

majority of people playing are dads and not youtubers or people who sit at home all day. We aint got 10 minutes doing absolutley nothing. That whole hour of travel in 1 days at 1hour a day playtime.

[wind spade]

if it wasn't, you could very well just have placeable nodes so that you don't have to travel anywhere

[lone igloo]

LIke please tell me that 1hour of travel time is a nice feeling in 6 hour game section

[wind spade]

majority of people wouldn't travel so much, because they wouldn't have reason to do so. You travel to a location, build a factory, repeat. No reason to travel back anywhere

[unique cypress]

last time I checked, you can't transport ore with hypertubes automatically

[wind spade]

how's that related?

[lone igloo]

Bro you;re arguments so off man, I can make silly argument to anything someone says. Actually think people answering like seriousrly.

I can say A and you will say the complete opposite just cuz its not OP or soemthing wierd.

[unique cypress]

are you just pretending to be dense or are you actually stupid?

[wind spade]

???

I'm asking how is ore transportation related to my point

[unique cypress]

it's more related to your point than your point was related to the discussion

[lone igloo]

how is ore transportation even in this conversation about actual travel of a player?

[wind spade]

I didn't mention ore transportation at all though

[unique cypress]

???

[wind spade]

I said "placeable nodes" because that's practically the only reason to travel somewhere - to build a factory there, near nodes

so if travel time wasn't supposed to be a game mechanic, you could have placeable nodes and get the same experience

[unique cypress]

placeable nodes would completely remove any need to transport ores even 10m

[lone igloo]

Bro is genuenly trolling at this point....

[wind spade]

and you wouldn't have to travel to nodes, so you'd have more time for your kids and work

[lone igloo]

Thats not how it works man!

I love the world LIKE love it... its amazing. Just traveling options are slow... until tier 9 with portals....

[wind spade]

that's basically what your point was

so you like the world but want the only traveling option that actually doesn't show you the world, nice

[lone igloo]

LOOK AT THIS DUDE... OMFG

My brain abouta pop outa my head

[unique cypress]

I'm more baffled by the cognitive dissonance with the portals and ficsonium opinions. complete fucking opposite opinions in the exact same situation

[lone igloo]

there is no conversation possible with this man as anything and everything we say is "NOT Balanced" OR "Just make it placebable"....

[wind spade]

you very much know my opinion on ficsonium (or at least I've told you that several times, whether you ignored it or not I do not know), yet you continue to nitpick parts of that out of context 🤷

[wind spade]

except practically the only thing I said I consider OP is the canons, and the "placeable" thing was just to show how riddiculous your argument was

yes, the game won't be perfect for everyone, but that's what we have mods for. Go get yourself free teleporting mods or perma fly or whatever you want, I don't care. But don't use your lack of free time as an argument for changing base game balance

and if you don't want mods, we have AGS which can do basically all of that anyway

[lone igloo]

greeny I'm done with this conversation. I hope you'll never have a say in game balance as if your opinions make it in 99% of people will quit do to lack of QoL

[wind spade]

ok I guess

[unique cypress]

I don't have an issue with your opinion on ficsonium specifically, I have an issue with the fact that you think its existence is justified despite being basically useless just because you can set an arbitrary, meaningless restriction on yourself that makes it the only option, and yet you do not accept that the exact same thing appiles to portals. like yeah, you can make them the only option if you set an arbitrary restriction that makes them the only applicable option

[wind spade]

well my opinion on ficsonium is that plutonium fuel rods shouldn't be sinkable, because it doesn't make sense

[unique cypress]

they've been sinkable for years. just like HT lauchers existed for years. don't you think the new options should be balanced with the old options' existence in mind? instead of removing the old options just because they don't fit the balance? despite the fact that the new additions could've been made to be less unbalanced? because, you know, they were added after? by the people who knew about the old methods?

[wind spade]

they could've changed that with 1.0 which anyway broke nuclear setups

and they did removed old options because they didn't fit the new balance

(not necessarily around nuclear, but they did in other parts of production chains)

as some other people (including me) think, they didn't really follow the pre-release path that the game had and instead switched and put 1.0 on a different path

I feel that if game director stayed the same, it would've gone more into the good old SF instead of this weird "mess" we have now

[unique cypress]

they could've done that to nuclear and personal transportation. but they didn't and now we have an unbalanced game.

the option that would've upset the least players is to make the new stuff better than the old stuff

[wind spade]

indeed

[wind spade]

I'm not sure if "upset the least players" is really measurable, I still feel like it's the vocal minority that had biggest effect on that

[unique cypress]

other than people caring deeply about game balance, nobody likes having their old stuff nerfed/broken in the name of balance

but making it obsolete by adding something better is often welcomed

[wind spade]

and yet we had 1.0 patch which did just that

we all knew it will break things, it did, almost nobody complained, it was just fine

I'm not saying that it would be a good idea to have another balance patch now

but they could've (and imo should've) done it in 1.0

[unique cypress]

I feel like if they dropped 1.0 with ficsonium being the only option to get rid of waste, I would've been a little miffed, but ultimately went "ok, fair"

especially if they made it more reasonably priced

especially because I wasn't planning on continuing any of my pre-1.0 saves

but right now, if you only care about getting power, ficsonium is a terrible option

imo you should be rewarded for getting through the entire nuclear chain, not slapped in the face by insane SAM costs and barely existent power gains

[wind spade]

imo the reward is already the fact that you don't have to store waste

[knotty hornet]

Enough of this shit

Today is 3²/4²/5²

(Or 45² if you prefer four-digit year)

[wind spade]

today is 4²/3²/5² 😛

[knotty hornet]

Bloody europeans

[wind spade]

at least we use reasonable units and datetime formats 😛

[knotty hornet]

Hot take, there is nothing wrong with the imperial system of measures.

I do kinda agree about date formats, but I'm flexible with that

[wind spade]

not necessarily anything wrong with it (although it's inconvenient to work with), but still - most of the world uses metric, better change to metric so that we don't have to convert units all the time

[knotty hornet]

We are technically, given that even the foot is defined in terms of the meter now, and etc.

We just.... don't use it

[wind spade]

technically yes, but realistically you're still stating things in imperial units 😛

[knotty hornet]

Lmao at least i'm not a brit whose gonna report my weight in stone, whatever the f that is

[unique cypress]

we got silly units too. like kWh/1000h on the energy label

[knotty hornet]

Isn't that literally just W?

[unique cypress]

yes. and I deadass got lowkey kicked out of the electronics store when I first saw it cause I was laughing so hard

[knotty hornet]

Bruh

[unique cypress]

but it does make some sense I think. cause I think it might be the consumption in W, but averaged over 1000h of normal usage.

[knotty hornet]

That does kinda make sense

[unique cypress]

so if they think like a lightbulb is used on average 8h/day, the kWh/1000h number is gonna be 1/3 of its actual wattage

[lone igloo]

majority of T9 start feels very poorly made. Especially Ficsite ingot and Time Crystals. Ficsite ingots its just Sam + Iron / Alu / Cat and Time Crystal is like 1:1 to diamonds. Like its just coal -> diamonds -> Crystal. Crystal easily should of had casings in the recipie to match the item it self.

[knotty hornet]

Should screws have required plastic? You know, for the bin they are in?

Come on now

[fierce ruin]

no

[knotty hornet]

Exactly

[fierce ruin]

screws are already annoing enough

please

[lone igloo]

We're talking T9 items not T0.

[fierce ruin]

but screws are used throughout the entire game

[knotty hornet]

Maybe the tray is itself made of diamonds 🤷‍♂️

[unique cypress]

not if you use alts

[lone igloo]

I dont think I've used screws since Phase 2 or 3 I think

[fierce ruin]

i wish i knew about them on my first playthrough

[lone igloo]

All recipies I use straight up avoid screws to the point I use stiched iron plate recipie

[unique cypress]

it's cheaper than default so why would you not use it

[lone igloo]

It was an example.

[plucky tusk]

Bc bolted plateuses more screws. Why wont you guys use more screws

[unique cypress]

Because I'm not a masochist

[plucky tusk]

Thats how im doin my pccs all screw recipes

[unique cypress]

Have fun using double the iron and double the machines for the HMFs then I guess

[plucky tusk]

Yeah its great

I love screws ❤️

[oblique hollow]

screwsaderknight

[magic island]

if more recipes had clean math with the Steel Screw recipe, I'd use Screws even more

[unique cypress]

All math is equally clean

[plucky tusk]

Embrace the fractions dude. You dont always gotta do whole numbers

[lone igloo]

NO!

its either whole number or I dont do it

[plucky tusk]

Lol

[lone igloo]

and that is devs to play. As when you start the game everything is even and nicely made.

If they made start of the game and tought us that fractions are not bad then it would be easy

I got nearly 1k hours and I learn't from the start 1:1 rations are the best and game in my head is /min

[lone igloo]

where if I was playing factorio its /sec

[unique cypress]

I don't care if it's 15, 16.875 or 14.(4). it's all the same to me

[wild radish]

I would argue that HMFs are very much designed to teach players that decimals aren't scary

[lone igloo]

yeah but even supercomp I just set them to 1 and I get whole numbers

or if something is producing 0.75 I overclock to 1

[unique cypress]

insane behaviour tbh

[lone igloo]

Since the start of the game I was taught whole numbers and bearly any decimals and so I just never use them

[lucid horizon]

Hey Friends, joined the discord quickly to ask, hope this is the right channel.

My constructors are not getting resources fast enough when splitting after my storage. I feel like splitting before my storage (giving each constructor a dedicated storage) could work but that increases my footprint. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

[unique cypress]

ideally, you would not put storage in the middle of production. whatever ends up in storage, stays in there until you take it out yourself.

[magic island]

if all the first-step items you're producing need to be distributed to those constructors, then you don't need storage along the way

either you're not producing enough of those step-1 items in the first place, or you're bottlenecking something in terms of belt speed

[lucid horizon]

Right now I'm working with biofuel, and my main source is leaves and wood. I have storage so I can drop off stacks at a time, one storage split to 2, both of those outputting to a splitter to 3 constructors per splitter.

I hope that made sense

[unique cypress]

in that case, it sounds like you don't have a belt that's fast enough

[lucid horizon]

Figured that might be the answer. Im working on tier 3 belts currently

[unique cypress]

wait.... you're working on mk3 belts but you're still running biofuel

[lucid horizon]

Just unlocked coal, haven't delved in. Wanted to make enough bio fuel with enough buffer to keep up my machines while I hunt for a coal node

[still blade]

genuinely how do i balance this, the input is 820 iron/min

[dusky bronze]

manifold

[still blade]

manifold from foundry > plates > wire?

[wind spade]

you do not

if you have 450 on a belt, connect it to machines that need 450. Repeat for any belt you have

[unique cypress]

belt balancer?

[still blade]

how do i balance 820 into 594.88 / 95.76 / 129.32

[unique cypress]

depends what belts you have

[still blade]

max right now is mk4

[unique cypress]

then 2:4 or 2:3 I guess

it'll balance itself automatically, like a manifold

[magic island]

I'm guessing some of those decimals are longer than 2 figures

if I knew the exact fractions you need I could draft a very very silly rube-goldberg-esque balancer but it might not be pretty

[mellow leaf]

NGBFBDRFGN

[still blade]

here are the 4 decimals, since thats the max the game allows in machines iirc

[mellow leaf]

OK

Satisfactory Interactive Maps:
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

Guides and other useful information:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/obqjrd/ficsit_pipeline_plumbing_manual_first_edition/ Guide and infos for pipes (made by @oblique hollow | Back in the Flow ) (Bearbeitet)
Satisfactory Tools
A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

[SCIM] Satisfactory - Calculator
Satisfactory helper to calculate your production needs. | Gaming Tool/Wiki/Database to empower the players.

[SCIM] Satisfactory - Calculator
Satisfactory helper to calculate your production needs. | Gaming Tool/Wiki/Database to empower the players.

reddit
r/SatisfactoryGame - FICSIT Pipeline Plumbing Manual - First Edition
109 votes and 27 comments so far on Reddit

[unique cypress]

why are you even making such an inconvenient amount of HMFs?

[still blade]

maximizing some train's output of iron

[mellow leaf]

001

LEON1023

[still blade]

is bro tweaking

[wind spade]

make three groups of smelters, each one making the desired amount

[still blade]

its all already smelted

[fierce ruin]

Manifold it

[wind spade]

easy to change clock speed on a few of smelters

[still blade]

about that

[unique cypress]

yeah, I'd just build a balancer for the number of in/out belts you have. fastest solution tbh

or a pseudo balancer. even faster and easier to build

[wind spade]

imo clocking is faster 🤷 but anything is viable

[unique cypress]

it's really not. especially if you have balancer BPs already

[wind spade]

pasting a few numbers is faster than plopping down and connecting a BP imo

[frosty owl]

Just to make your head hurt some more
The 4 decimals refer to the clock speed of machines, so any item made at less than 100/min will have more than 4 decimals aviable (at least internally, no way to visualize that in-game iirc)

[unique cypress]

but then you have to split machines making the same item into separate groups that make the correct amount. if you balance, you don't care about how many items are on each belt, so you can place machines willy-nilly

[runic kraken]

best spot for aluminum and quantum computers and turbo motors and maybe the project parts?

[wind spade]

they already have machines built, it's really just a matter of clocking a few and merging them (and you need to merge them for balancer as well, so that's basically same time to build)

[runic kraken]

or is it not possible to do everything in 1 place?

[wind spade]

would sound weird, but "near resources it needs" is almost always the answer 😉

[runic kraken]

this shit makes me want to cry

[unique cypress]

it always is possible to build whatever you want in one place. you might just need to ship ore from far away

[runic kraken]

can i somehow see all my alternate recipies in 1 place?

[unique cypress]

loading your save file into SCIM

[dusky dust]

Not ingame, no. I think you can import your save to SCIM to see them that way, though

[runic kraken]

ty

[dusky dust]

You can open the game's codex (using o, or n for a search bar) and search for a resource -- that'll show you all alt recipes you have to produce it

[unique cypress]

but also, I think you should get recipes that'll make your life easier, not use the recipes you just happen to have right now

[runic kraken]

yeah good idea

cuz i aint getting 3k iron

[magic island]

well, I said it wouldn't be pretty

(white are splitters, black are mergers)

(the actual fractions are 621/856, 100/856, and 135/856)

[still blade]

https://tenor.com/view/scared-shocked-letter-shocked-carta-assustado-lendo-assustado-gif-9865558537950598670

[unique cypress]

and it's probably not correct either unless you used exact fractions instead of rounded decimal representations of them

[magic island]

I worked with a denominator of 856 (which gets bumped up to 864 after the first merger), and then scaled to the actual numbers for the final draft

the rough draft using the more convenient ratios

[plucky tusk]

Seems overcomplicated a bit

[magic island]

i enjoy the puzzle of making these but I acknowledge the results are often completely insane

[unique cypress]

these are the actual fractions (assuming an exact 820/min ingot input)

[magic island]

haha time to get back to the drawing board then (no)

[unique cypress]

If I did my math right, it'd be that, except all numbers divided by 214

[plucky tusk]

I feel like the manifold wouldve balanced on it own by now

That is a crazy split tho

[unique cypress]

well, it can't be "a" manifold when there's 820 ingots and no mk6 belts

[plucky tusk]

Oh shit u right

[wind spade]

it can be more manifolds tho

[plucky tusk]

Injection manifold😎

[wind spade]

that's multiple manifolds with extra steps

[unique cypress]

eh, I consider that more than one manifold since it's interruped by a merger

you can build the same layout (topologically) in a way that looks like multiple manifolds

[plucky tusk]

But yeah if i had to do that split id just split into two belts then just injection manifold

[still blade]

well i tried manifolding, this is the result

[plucky tusk]

Nice

[jaunty lodge]

my pump is giving uplift without being connected to energy maybe is because it makes the vertical pipe "shorter" 🤔

[unique cypress]

pumps without power set head lift to 0. regardless of what it was before

[jaunty lodge]

uh

this thing had no pump so the oil wasnt reaching up then i put a pump but not connected and it was working the oil extractor started working now i connected just cause yes

[magic island]

maybe because you had a little oil above the pump before you created it, that allowed something funny to happen with the headlift in the system?

the situation might not sustain itself

[jaunty lodge]

that thing probably happened cause i reported before that the oil was going up without pump but now it stopped going up but now with pump turned off started going back so i dont understand why this last part

but welp ok pump necessary

[magic island]

yeah, when you build a pump, it splits the pipe into two. and when the game defined the "new" upper pipe, it had some oil in it.

the game probably just treated the oil as being at the top of the new pipe (even if it hadn't reached that height before). this would temporarily create some headlift but it shouldn't work longterm

[hexed temple]

any improvements i can make to this? im still gonna add one more row of irom because it can handle 120 iron a min but i currently have 90

[unique cypress]

where foundations?

[hexed temple]

Nowhere

[runic kraken]

nice spaghetti

[lone igloo]

@knotty hornet I've took your advice and remodeled all my fluids inputs to use horizontal junctions. Lets see how this goes 🙂

Belts feet so nicely underneath aswel LOVE it

[unique cypress]

@wind spade When has the wiki been updated? cause I don't see CC in here

it's just coal power

[wind spade]

no idea, I was sending files for 1.1 afaik, but idk

[unique cypress]

same in docs

[knotty hornet]

Do let me know once it winds up

[unique cypress]

just 3-1, which should be coal power

on both coal alts

[lone igloo]

I got a while to go, this is only 2/5 steps 6 if including water extractor placement. Probably couple more days of building. Its a massive facility using 2700 Crude.

I hope blenders will have the same height on the vertical junctions so I dont have to worry about the headlift on the bottom row heavy oil.

[knotty hornet]

I always put the horizontal manifold pipe at the level of two stackable pipeline supports, that way it works for everything, packagers too.

[lone igloo]

yeah I noticed the pattern, even the support it self also perfect on max height so its not easy to fuck up the headlift. As long as blenders got the input same or lower whcih is most likely the case.

[brisk imp]

quick question what do the diagrams on the right mean lol

https://satisfactoryproductionplanner.com

[crimson moat]

Those are vertical

you need to be careful with vertical junctions as the height of their connection points is calculated incorrectly, and it's calculated incorrectly in a different way if you rotate the junction differently (so you can have two which look almost identical, yet behave very differently).

For example this can result in prioritising the wrong outputs, blocking some connections due to incorrect pressure calculation, locking outputs completely when pipes aren't 100% full (rather than just slowing them down), giving headlift which isn't supposed to be there and vanishes if the junction is rebuilt with a different rotation etc

[lone igloo]

all are part of a bp build the exact same rotation if I'm 100% correct as I placed them all in 1 go.

[crimson moat]

That means that the behavior will be consistent, but it will be consistently wrong in some ways. That's better that inconsistently wrong (sometimes wrong in one way, sometimes wrong in another) but it still may cause unexpected issues at times

[lone igloo]

we will see how it goes. Trying this type of building for 1st time instead horizontal will test for everyone ahah. And yes I meant Vertical not Horizontal before

[crimson moat]

It is cool, just needs care (:

[lone igloo]

But honestly nothing to worry about, as all my fluids are coming from the top of my facility. Taking all fluids UP first before sending down and the outputs are going straight down and for safety I will add pumps just in case. Thanks for the advice.

[broken glacier]

anyone have software they recommend to help draw/organize plans? i dont wanna use ms paint nor do i wanna use paper irl lol

[lone igloo]

Safisfactory planner on steam

[crimson moat]

satisfactory tools (website) and modeller (steam)

[wind spade]

first one is more of a calculator, second one is practically a planner (though I'd recommend planning ingame instead)

[broken glacier]

the website is helping a lot to calculate already

thank you both <3

i need 44 foundaries and 33 constructors for what i wanna do 💀, trying to mass produce all of my steel stuff including steel screws

[earnest ravine]

i f with the planner i like it ngl

[unique cypress]

Suggestions for how to lay out your machines (how many rows and columns) such that the manifolds work out well (in terms of belt throughput and possibly spacing)

No clue how useful or reliable that suggestion is, because I've only used the site enough to know what it's trying to do, but I haven't actually tried to implement any plan it made

Ngl it sounds pretty useful in theory

[lone igloo]

I kinda almost never follow the machine count unless its perfect for me. Sometimes I just look up the ratios at most and adjust the machine count to my build at the time. Sometimes I need to overclock or underclock depending on build.

[thorny root]

The last two days have been spent building the return lines for the final products of the refinery layer. And that's nearly done.

[knotty hornet]

I've been using this system the entire I've played and have never had any of those issues.

[unique cypress]

Ever since I played Factorio Space Age, I've been treating machine counts pretty loosely. Factorio made me realize that having extra production capacity doesn't really matter if there's a bottleneck somewhere up/downstream that'll regulate the production to what I actually need. So whenever I need like 44.587 machines and I've got a BP that has 8, I just place 48 and leave it at that. Are 3 of them completely useless? Sure. Does it matter? Not at all

[lone igloo]

Yeah Factorio Space Age had me tweaking at moments ngl. But I do agree but I'm on a journey of creating more beatiful builds rather than making platform and just laying things out like factorio. I just like having my machines evenly matched. I got OCD asf and if I'm off by pixel and I see it I will never unsee it until I fix it. Its my own issue and if I got idk 4.333 mahcines needed and I want even number I just overlock lastone to 133.333% and good to go. OCD problems heavy asf

[crimson moat]

they exist for everyone, you just might not have used them in a way where it broke things in a way that you then noticed and correctly attributed the issue/s.

[lone igloo]

I honestly still to this day dont understand why Satisfactory trying to achieve these realistic fluids instead of making everyone lifes easier eh. But eh hey ho we're here now.

[crimson moat]

There's cool stuff with verticality, but the junction is a really weird part. It's a pipe but one end is actually three ends, and you can't see how much fluid is inside of it.

[knotty hornet]

I have never had junctions like this lock up, give improper headlift, or give different flows based on rotation.

It simply does not happen.

The only times I've ever had flow issues in this type of arrangement is when I didn't do my math correctly and undersupplied.

Which.... duh

[crimson moat]

The junction connection height calculation bug does exist (unless all connection points have the same height, several will be calculated wrongly). It has been widely explored and proven beyond doubt, and it's not different from one game client to the next. If it happens for one person, it does for everyone.

Here's an example of one of the many effects that results from this error, infinite headlift without any pump.

It has been unintentionally exploited for years before being figured out concretely (for example, it causes the well known VIP junction to function via lock out one of the input pipes due to miscalculating pressure)

[knotty hornet]

That has never happened. What do you claim causes this?

[crimson moat]

I literally posted a video of it happening my dude.

[crimson moat]

unless all connection points have the same height, several will be calculated wrongly

This. It's a fairly simple code error that has been isolated via somebody having decompiled Satisfactory 1.1, and used to correctly predict some abberant behaviors like this.

[lone igloo]

If its been widely explored... have the devs been notified to fix th calculation issue?

[crimson moat]

Yes, they're working on it

[knotty hornet]

So in other words, if i build a single straight pipe at a consistent level and build these on that, there will be no issue?

Because they would all have the same height

[crimson moat]

It's the connection points on the junction itself that matters, so for example if you have a top and bottom connection then it will be wrong

If they're flat, like having been placed on a foundation, you get a left/right/front/back connection without any of them pointing up or down, and that calculates the height correctly semi-accidentally.

[lone igloo]

well lets hope 1.2 fixes those issues or a hotfix will come by.

[knotty hornet]

Are you claiming the junction decides which face of the junction is "up" independently of actual coordinates of the face?

[lone igloo]

or is there a guaranteed preset on a juction for up/down/left/right?

if so some sort of indicator would be great ngl

[crimson moat]

The junction on the left has four connections which are internally all at 0 meters height

The junction on the right has one connection at 0 meters (the bottom), and three connections at 2 meters high (both sides and the top).

It does not match the actual visual of the junction

Sec and i'l post a pic of what a junction without the error looks like

[lone igloo]

This is just funny to me because you now making me worry as I got way over 120+ refineries all built RN with that setup and it took me way too long to get them all done even with BPS and I do not auto connect pipes via the bp

[crimson moat]

Ye i have a lot too 😄

[lone igloo]

Auto-connect on BPs breaks pipes internal buffer values causing them to store more fluids that an single build pipe which to me is absurd from the devs part

[knotty hornet]

How do you verify these measures?

[crimson moat]

They were taken from how the game code calculates the height (it only uses 2 of the 4 connections to calculate height, which cannot produce the correct values when rotation along a certain axis is used)

and then thoroughly tested ingame to verify that the actual behavior matched that understanding

this calculates correctly

There is a left/right/forward/backwards, but no up or down

[lone igloo]

What is the chance for these to be broken ah 😭

[crimson moat]

left side calculates correctly. Mid and right miscalculate (side view)

[crimson moat]

Most of the time it actually does work fine despite the calculation error, it's just that it can break in some very weird ways 😄

[knotty hornet]

So in this image, the left is what would happen if I place a vertical junction on a horizontal pipe, and the right is what would happen if I put a junction on a vertical pipe?

[crimson moat]

How the junction is placed does not matter

The important bit is that none of the connections (where pipes plug in) point up or down at all

rotating in that axis physically moves the connection points, and several of them are miscalculated when they're not all at the same height.

[lone igloo]

we good then

[knotty hornet]

?? Let's assume there will be a face pointing downward.

[lone igloo]

but I got pipe connected down for the input..

btw @crimson moat you just made probably good amount of people panic because of this info ahaa

[knotty hornet]

When I place a junction onto an existing pipe, does it place the axis of measurement on the pipe, or perpendicular to it?

[lone igloo]

You should never place a junction on a existing pipe in a first place.

[knotty hornet]

Not the question or the point rn

[crimson moat]

Every vertical junction configuration miscalculates, they just each do it in different ways.

For example these 2 look kinda the same, but if you look closely you can see that the weld lines (and the whole junction) are rotated 90 degrees on one of the axis. They behave very differently

[crimson moat]

It's just which direction the junction connections are pointing relative to the game world. Pointing north/east/south/west is calculated as intended, pointing sky or ground has error.

[knotty hornet]

The one on the left here is the preferred option though, yes? Because all connections are the same height, so less likely to have issue?

That would be the light blue one in the most recent you shared

[crimson moat]

The height is above the junction, so liquid can't flow sideways at all unless the liquid level is high enough to output out of the top connection. It's a bit wonky whichever way you do it. I just use horizontal junctions for everything to bypass the issue altogether

e.g. this works fine for going up.

it just takes slightly more room sometimes

but it's worth it to not have to choose between several different junction gremlins

[knotty hornet]

What you are saying makes sense, if i ignore my experience and the fact that this has always worked for me without fail and without breaking.

I actually started using vertical junctions because they fixed the issues I was having with horizontal ones.

[crimson moat]

It has most likely caused issues or changes in behavior which you either did not notice, or attributed to some other problem. It certainly did many times for me, i played a thousand hours on 1.0 / 1.1 before learning of this.

It CAN cause catastrophic problems, often the kind that people couldn't really explain before (e.g. rebuild the pipe "the same" and now it works! But you accidentally rotated the junction 90 degrees, and that's why)

Usually it causes relatively minor flow changes, but generally undesirable ones

as for vertical working better than horizontal, that's probably more about the elevation difference between the connection points. For example, flat manifolds have much more sloshing than manifolds that are raised above machine inputs with pipes going down into the inputs

[lone igloo]

Soi if I have half full mk2 pipe 100% of the time is that a guaranteed issue?

[crimson moat]

no

pipes only need to appear 100% full to flow at full rate if they're horizontal. If they're going downhill, they need less fill %.

If they're going straight down, they can flow at 600/600 without any fill at all

if they're going up, flow will be zero until pipe is 100% full

[knotty hornet]

I don't know, I guess I'm gonna go creative and try to contrive some of these scenarios that you are explaining, cuz I've never experienced this.

[crimson moat]

#math-and-meta message

this is a good demo 😄

If you rotate the junction 90 degrees then the flow stops dead and can't climb the wall

I think for the clearest effect you need a specific pipe length, so like a 30 meter pipe from the extractor to the junction, then 30 meter pipes from junction 1 to 2 to 3 etc. Haven't ran that one myself. It's easier to do with shorter pipes and more junctions.

[knotty hornet]

This demo has no things being compared, nor can I see any of the rest of the set up, so I don't know what's going on.

[crimson moat]

It's a water extractor with a pipe coming out of it and going through a bunch of junctions, that's all

the machine headlift is 10m but the water climbs hundreds of meters in the video

[knotty hornet]

Hmm

[crimson moat]

MkGalleon accidentally exploited this bug a few years ago and made a post about it - https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/644ede8f5298eb579df106ae

It was just explored in more depth recently

Basically the game thinks that the bottom and the top of the junction are at the same height, so they don't need headlift to go from one to the other. But in reality the top of the junction is 2m higher than the bottom.

and some funky business with the pipe in between, but it's caused by the junction connection point heights

[knotty hornet]

I think i understand in this case.

But this is so far removed from the horizontal manifolding where we started talking about this in the first place.

But thank you for taking the time to try to explain.

[crimson moat]

The game just only calculates 2 connection heights for the junction, when a vertical junction actually requires 3 (and a junction with arbitrary rotation would require 4)

it is basically a pipe, but one side of the pipe has 3 connectors on it

[knotty hornet]

They should just calculate all four.

[crimson moat]

Yeah i am not really sure why they didn't. Maybe something with rigging up the junction to work in the first place, since as i understand it is literally a pipe that has modifications

and pipe only has 2 connections

[knotty hornet]

Like, if you have the normal vector out of the center of plus of the junction, and a rotation of that vector, then you can define all four endpoints of the junction in any orientation.

Hmm. Well anyway, i still stand by my junctioning method for machine manifolds, cuz if it were gonna fail, it would have by now.

[crimson moat]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/68a910c5a0c2236f30c1e3c2 better post by the guy who figured it out 😄

There is actually that exact vertical junction manifold tested in there, and it only works well if you built the vertical junction in a certain orientation. Rotated 90 degrees it can break, and these look almost identical so it can be an easily missed mistake

#math-and-meta message

This is the orientation that works quite well in this use-case

mostly works:

vs

doesn't really work for this:

they look almost the same but are calculated differently internally, and if you look closely you can see that the weld lines have rotated

[knotty hornet]

This is the orientation in every one of my blueprints

So it's been fine this whole time

[plucky tusk]

Well if you look at it it just looks like a pipe with two other pipes welded onto the sides so id assume that you would want the water to flow through the main pipe not the ones that were welded on

[knotty hornet]

That's the default orientation it will build them in when you add a junction to a horizontal pipe.

[prisma parcel]

I don't even wanna think about organising this, I'll get to it when I get to it 😭

[crimson moat]

Much easier i find if you arrange things so that they don't have overlapping lines, e.g.

[dusky bronze]

at a certain point you have to have overlapping lines

[vapid gorge]

that's why you break it down into smaller sections.

[agile junco]

I'm here once again reminding people to use outposts.

[agile junco]

I wish there was a way to make the straight line style like that have loops look better.

[crimson moat]

Yeah, it's a bit weird

[crimson moat]

Nah you don't

[lone jewel]

use outposts/blueprints to group things together

[hexed temple]

Ty

[tight reef]

okay im getting seriously a headache from this, im trying to make a factory which produces 5 modular frames p/m. it needs 30 rods per minute and 5.5 reinforced plates. i got a pure iron ore node, 4 smelters (smelting 30 p/m), going into 2 constructors making the 30 rods p/m which i need, but i got 2 other constructors that need to make 5.5 reinforced plates together. im using the alternative recipe for screws but im just getting stuck. can someone please help me out. decimals really confuse me in this game

[fallow siren]

3.5 constructor means 3 constructor at 100% and 4th at 50%

its actually pretty simple

[vapid gorge]

3 machines is just 300% clocking spread however you like

3.75 machines is 375% clocking spread however you like

ect ect

you could do 3x 100% + 1x 50%

or 1x at 250% 1x 100%

or any combination for 3.5 machines

[fallow siren]

3.5 means 350% clock speed, so you can do basically anything to reach that number

[vapid gorge]

or 350x at 1%

[unique cypress]

not necessarily. the sum of [uptime] * [clock speed] / (100%)^2 for all machines needs to add up to 3.5

[woeful zenith]

How about this, there are less decimals here. And if you need more modular frames just make it again

[brisk smelt]

stop thinking of factories like that. all your numbers are under mk2 limit so this is just really easy. say you have 60 into a belt and need 37.77777, 15.2757727, and 6.94653 into 3 seperate machines. seems hard right? but just think, you feed 60 into the first machine, but it can only take so much, so the overflow fills the next one. and so on. now these numbers will be harder when you get above 1200 on a production step, you will need to partial split and merge manifolds but dont worry about that now

[plucky tusk]

3.5/4 should be the clock speeds

[still blade]

which one do i take?

[dusky bronze]

do you want more aluminum or more aluminum casings

if you want more aluminum at the cost of a little bit of oil at your setup then take the scrap

[still blade]

i was thinking to take the casings since its basically the same recipe as the sheets, so i thought "oh i could just build the same factory and make both aluminum items"

but the scrap does sound tempting

also idk if i just have my satisfactory modeler set up incorrectly, because when i try to loop back byproducts into the system (such as water from scrap into alumina solution) it sets every number into 0 automatically

[unique cypress]

i'd want both

[loud hawk]

Which calculate is that?

[unique cypress]

it does that when the setup wouldn't work as built. either you're not adding enough water, or adding too much, or something. priority splitters/mergers usually help in that case

sometimes an overflow to a sink is required too, but that's often the case with oil, not really with aluminium

[wind spade]

Whichever you like/want/need more

[brisk smelt]

i would do scrap

casing alt is too cu heavy imo

[dusky bronze]

it does that, you have to set the mode to manual in settings

and then if you get negatives or it still goes to zero (or just if something weird happens)add another connection of something to the byproduct and that will smooth everything out

and with manual mode if you're getting negatives im pretty sure its because you're not making enough of whatever item it is

[still blade]

I work in a weird way where instead of looking at “oh I wanna make X amount of Y item”, I look at how much of a given resource I have, and see just how much I can maximize it. Could I have gotten better numbers if my HMF production was a multiple of 2.813? Yeah, wouldn’t have to deal with weird fractions. But if I’m going to train 820 iron per minute purely for HMF production, might as well use it all

So the modeler usually shows me how much I can make from a given number, and I adapt any other resources to that, so for example; water for pure recipes

[brisk urchin]

same lol

i very much overestimated my early game stator factory where i only needed 72 iron and like litle to none copper for 45 stators per minute

i originaly planed to use the whole iron node with mk1 miner but turns out i didnt

[jaunty lodge]

how do i extend this things

[brisk urchin]

2 lift holes, one ontop on a floor and the 2nd one on the bottom, line em up oerfectly and then you can stretch a lift to any lenght

[unique cypress]

that's max length. though there is a bug that allows you to bypass the max length by stretching the lift between 2 floor holes

[brisk urchin]

yeah a bug

[jaunty lodge]

can i delete the floor after and keep them working

[brisk urchin]

you can try but i guess so

[unique cypress]

pretty sure deleting the floor hole will remove the lift too

but you can def remove the foundation you put the hole into

[next sky]

am I allowed to send a .sfmd file for the satisfactory modeler application?
I have a build that I'm working on but it's giving me issues that I don't know how to solve and I am wanting to know if someone could help me with it

[unique cypress]

allowed to? I don't see why not. but screenshots would probably be better anyway

[wind spade]

I'd say they would follow similar rules to other files like savegames and BP files - fine in DMs, not in public

[next sky]

alright
It will have to be multiple screenshots if I did that though

[crimson moat]

Satisfactory Modeller on steam

[unique cypress]

one l

[lone igloo]

Both are god tier ngl

[alpine steeple]

alt aclad

[frosty pawn]

i'd take the scrap one and build a factory with it, then open more hard drives and hope to get the casing one too

[plucky tusk]

Get all the recipes

[frosty pawn]

it's easier to plan how big you need to build when you know the limits of the input

[crimson moat]

scam

[unique cypress]

<@&387163995947270144>

Thank you

[real current]

this is a meta question about machines that consume gas... Suppose I have a large number of fluid buffers filled with nitrogen... then I shut off the source after the buffers are all full.. Then I plumb in a machine to consume the fluid buffers. Will the machine that consumes gas consume 100% from my buffer storage, ie. the machine "vacuums all gas out of the pipes" or will there just be a residule somewhere in the system making it impossible to consume all stored gas.

in other words .... do machines technically "suck" gas ?

like a straw

[crimson moat]

No, but the input port is valved (and effectively downhill or something like that). Anything that goes in won't come back out.

Any gas in the input pipe will flow into the machine at a rate determined by the fill%.

If/when that lowers the fill% in the input pipe, gas will equalise from the other pipes to bring the fill pipe up and the other pipes down.

Flow rate declines as fill% does, eventually it won't be enough to sustain the machines but it should keep cycling on and off occasionally to burn it until eventually the system is left with less than 1 production item worth of gas in it. The time period between "machines don't run well" and "there's literally not enough gas left to make 1 item" could be extremely long though, probably best to just focus on how long the machines sustain enough input flow to run continuously.

[vapid gorge]

don't use fluid buffers for storage for one
especialy don't use fluid buffers for gas, they really don't like it and will really mess with flow

[real current]

reason I ask, is I am trying to make a nural quantum processor, but I don't have a lot of resources, I was hoping to generate 25,000 photonic matter in a fluid buffer, then use the same converter for the next step

what i mean by not a lot of resources, I am currently in Tier 9, and have a single overclocked 8up coal factory, and geothermal up the wazoo... i havent even gotten one gas powered generator running (yet) I was really hoping to unlock Blueprint mk 3 to start building my big factory... all I need is 100 Nural-Quantum processors.... which is insane to make

[vapid gorge]

just use less in the first place.

you're not going to get a consistent processing anyway

[real current]

thats kinda why i was hoping to store a crapload of it

but your saying that gas storage is flaky, weird and inconsistant

of course the other option is 20 fixit coupons in the awesome shop... was hoping not to do that

[vapid gorge]

UI mean it s ouinds like your real issue is power

[dusky bronze]

definitely get some more power online

rocket fuel is pretty cheap and you can get a couple hundred GW without much effort

[real current]

na... its not power, is the age old trope, anything I design, I want it to be something I am proud of... which means oversized, overcomlicated and large... which is very timeconsuming

[vapid gorge]

power is very easy, if yo udon't have the power for yoru world, your real issue is power

[dusky bronze]

it might be fine for now but coal and geothermal isnt gonna cut it for phase 5

[vapid gorge]

just build a nice nuclear set up, it'll keep you going forever

[real current]

at the same time wouldnt it be awesome to finish the game on 8 coal power plants 😛 minimalist strategy

[vapid gorge]

?

so the opposite of what you were wanting to do before

[real current]

not really changed... I have unlocked everything but the MK3 blueprints building, and spatial energy all on a coal power plant. Just trying to figure out if it was possible to store 2,500,000 cubic meters of dark photonic matter in liquid buffers through blueprint mark2 storage buffer array.

maybe I just need to package it up 😛

[real current]

guess it can't be packaged... buffer dump or dark matter crystals

[crimson moat]

It's not

you can't package dpm also

i would suggest if you wanna play from earlygame with lategame techs like mk.3 blueprinter, just unlock them on your save with SCIM

[fallow siren]

photonic matter is a free resource, why are you trying to store them in buffer anyway

[vapid gorge]

getting around power restrictions in weird ways

[upbeat summit]

how do i know / calculate that adding more trains to my network is decreasing the throughput of the material instead of increasing it?

[unique cypress]

if a train arrives before the items from the last tier have been used up

[unique cypress]

is there a write-up on how to contribute to the wiki without fucking things up?

[deft lichen]

what would you like to edit?

there's a style guide but that's not really a "tutorial" https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Satisfactory_Wiki:Style_guide

feel free to DM

[unique cypress]

I've been thinking of updating the balancer page because I find it a little lacking lol

maybe rename that page to something along the lines of "Tutorial: item distribution methods" and collect all of them there. or add another page on top of the existing balancer page. because compressors being on the balancer page is kinda weird

Because I've never seriously edited any wiki before, I was kinda hoping there was a way to get a "local" copy of a page I could test things out on before publishing it

[deft lichen]

you can preview how a page looks before submitting (or see changes directly if using the visual editor), or put the page under your user profile (that excludes it from being considered a regular wiki page, it cannot be searched for and can be edited without needing to worry you'll mess something up)

if it's long or complicated, a separate tutorial page from the existing balancer page would probably be ideal

here's my sandbox page for example, which currently has a copy of the main page on it (don't be fooled) https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/User:Ondar111/sandbox

[unique cypress]

If I end up doing a writeup on balancer construction it's probably gonna be long and take a long time to compile. so a personal page is where it'll go for now.

when (if) I've got the text and diagrams ready, I'll probably consult this channel on where it all should go.

thanks for now

[deft lichen]

you can also just write it into a google doc and I can help you convert it to wiki syntax afterwards

or, if you know what markdown is, that would be the easiest option

[feral breach]

kinda hate the ratios on Bolted iron plate

[brisk urchin]

dont use screws, simple as that

[feral breach]

Which alts should I aim for in the beggining? I completely forgot since last time I played last year.

[brisk urchin]

all without screws if you want to get into actual factories early game

pure ingot recepies

and the free 6 inventory slots

[unique cypress]

note that for steel rotor and steeled frame you'll need to wait until tier 3

[feral breach]

not yet even in phase 1, so just checking in advance 😄

[brisk urchin]

yeah bo in low phases you just store the hard drives

[unique cypress]

stitched plate and iron wire can be gotten very early

[brisk urchin]

eventualy in mam research trees but other than that id just store em to get good recepies

[wind spade]

whichever you want, there's no "best"

[wind spade]

what specifically?

[upbeat summit]

uhh so did an oopsie with fuel gens and now half of my fuel gens are without fuel, i did connect all of them to a switch, but turning that switch off (disconnecting the power station from the entire power grid) doesn't seems to put the fuel gens on standby, do i need to go and individually turn on every fuel gen, let them fill and turn them back on or is there any other easy way?

[feral breach]

I know... just some of them are quite nice to have early when you dont have speedy belts 😄

[wind spade]

That could still be all of them

[woeful zenith]

Yup turn off all the gens individually
Then let every single pipe fill to max
And then turn on all the gens individually

[upbeat summit]

there are 84 of them 😭, ik it's a lot less then what many of you have built here but yes

[woeful zenith]

Oh wow you made the same exact amount as my setup lol

Nah it's a lot

[unique cypress]

why would you ever turn off gens? just let them fill while on

[upbeat summit]

that's what im hoping

ill go on with my day building other stuff and hope they r full when i check later

[woeful zenith]

I highly recommend not doing this

[unique cypress]

that's what I've always done and I have absolutely no clue why would anyone ever do anything else

[woeful zenith]

There are some issues that can come into play. Despite everyone saying to fill the gens, it's really not needed. It's just your pipes that need to be full

[woeful zenith]

When gens are turned on after full pipes, the system behaves more like a manifold, and there's almost no sloshing going on

But when gens have stayed on and the pipes are only like half full, the sloshing can go back and forth a lot. Starving some gens at weird intervals. Sometimes it can cause a loop that lasts nearly forever. It can work in some cases and others it won't

Keeping gens off also helps with isolating pipe problems, if you had any in the first place

[visual ocean]

guys.. I have a train station with a buffer storage container. MK6 coming in and coming out of it. Lifts all upgraded. Its coming in at 1200 and coming out at 780

[unique cypress]

That's a telltale sign you have a mk5 belt/lift somewhere

Especially if it's a stable 780

[visual ocean]

i finally found it...

i was going crazy already

[brisk smelt]

fyi future reference load it up into scim, lasso your factory and upgrade all to mk6

[agile bobcat]

does this work to split 3 pipes of oil into 4

trying to figure out why my factory is buggered

got a couple fuel plants not on, should be at 60,000

[noble timber]

In theory yes but probably not due to all the fluid effects. Try at the end of each manifold adding a slightly raised fluid buffer and see if that helps. Whatever you do please do not add a valve 🙂

[agile bobcat]

whats the issue with valves?

just happened to be experimenting with them haha

[dusky bronze]

they're overall kind of useless and i think they only work if the pipe they're on is full

[plucky tusk]

Its only goin throuh two pipes tho

[agile bobcat]

sorry

each of the 3 inputs is 400

[dusky bronze]

only thing ive ever used valves for is to keep things from backflowing into other stuff but they're pretty good at that

[plucky tusk]

If you can think of a use for a valve use it. If it breaks your build your theory is obviously wrong

Im out here reinventing the lightbulb with valves lol

[agile bobcat]

hmmm ok

[thorny root]

Valves are scary. If I want a check valve, I just unpower a pump.

[unique cypress]

That sets the head lift to 0 tho

[thorny root]

That's important to remember and consider, but usually not a problem with my builds, since I tend to let gravity do most of the ... lifting? XD

[vapid gorge]

if you get flow issues put powered pumps on the new pipes post junction.

also, what @noble timber mentioned about buffers? don't do anything but add headlift. That's all a water tower does. Just slap a pump there if you want

[vapid gorge]

as for valves they aren't a reliable back flow stopper and have hidden mechanics that can break flow.

essentially if a system works with a valve, it'll almost certainly work without it, and any hodge podge 'fix' someone tries to put together with one has a non valve solution that is more reliable

[crimson moat]

If you go up even 1 meter or if you merge pipe with another one after the unpowered pump (one having pump, one not) then it will cause issues

also, if you put 2 in series, it will cause issues too

best to just power them, that way they generally mitigate/fix issues rather than potentially causing them.

[noble timber]

If you have the headlift available they will take in any fluid that “sloshes” up the pipe and it will be re-released later down the line. I can’t remember where I saw it but ever since I did I’ve abandoned loops and never had any issues with it

[vapid gorge]

except you don't want it to back up into the buffer, the buffer will eventually fill up and just back log the producers as well.

tehre's a lot of shitty youtube and reddit posts from people that do random things with pipes

and, no offence, but years of trouble shooting pipes on this server has shown people easily miss stutters in their systems.

[cursive marsh]

Is it possible to consume all the uranium in the world with no byproducts? I was playing around in Satisfactory Modeler and I can't find a way to do it with "only" 10200 SAM.

[wind spade]

yes

[cursive marsh]

cool.

now to find how...

[wind spade]

using uranium-inefficient recipes 🙂

[oblique hollow]

You could also just sink the plutonium rods

You used all the uranium up in either case

[wind spade]

I assumed that's "with byproduct", as the PRod is technically a byproduct

[cursive marsh]

yeah that's what I found.

Now to see how much power you can get out of it without making any waste.

[crimson moat]

some 15+ TW

[cursive marsh]

yikes.

Is that just from nukes or boosted APAs too?

[crimson moat]

the best yield for wasteless power, by a large margin, comes from using SAM to make more uranium while sinking plutonium rods

Lots of APA's. Lots of rocket fuel. Some ionized

[cursive marsh]

That makes sense, but my arbitrary definition of wasteless means I have to take it all the way down to ficsonium.

[crimson moat]

It depends a lot on how you define "all of the uranium". Because there isn't much, and you can easily make more uranium from SAM than exists in the world

[cursive marsh]

I'm defining it as 250% Mk.3 miners on all 5 nodes.

[crimson moat]

For 2100 uranium? Yes, with a few sloops only i think

[cursive marsh]

oh I forgot about somersloops.

🤦

[deft lichen]

lol, we seem to have an entirely different concept of scale

maxing out a single uranium node is already a huge project in itself imo

not maxing out all nodes and converting to get more

[crimson moat]

sent you a plan link

[cursive marsh]

yeah, this is just my far-future endgame project.

[crimson moat]

Pretty big yeah 😄

[cursive marsh]

I'm just planning now so I know how much SAM etc. I can use for other things.

[crimson moat]

If you don't have to use it, don't use it

50.4 uranium to 63 ficsonium rods already consumes it all so any SAM that you spend elsewhere is coming out of a sloop.

[deft lichen]

with my old fart approach to this game I probably won't use a single SAM conversion

I'd rather run a long train to import the stuff

[unique cypress]

I used conversion once. In my ammunition factory. It needed laughingly small amounts of damn near every resource

Ended up mining half of them and converting for the other half

[deft lichen]

makes sense

[unique cypress]

I suggest you use Satisfactory Optimizer then, it'll give you much more flexibility than any other automatic tool, without requiring to calculate everything manually, like Modeler would have

[cursive marsh]

oh yeah they're a pain with all the little 2/min requirements.

perfect use case for drones though.

[crimson moat]

Has anyone ever used all of the resources on the map in a useful way (like not just sinking ore)

[deft lichen]

there were some projects before 1.0 but I don't think they made it far

it's also ambiguously defined

you could make the bare minimum of everything and 40 million iron plates and that counts as "using resources"

[unique cypress]

Yeah, it's not max sink points, because iirc that sinks uranium, because that's apparently as useful as it can be for max sink

You'd have to rank items by "complexity" and maximize them in order

Once you cannot make more of the first one, you make as much as you can of the second and so on

But then I feel like you'd have to somehow quantify "complexity" and "wasting resources" because maxing anything will use plenty of inefficient recipes to get just a little bit more

[wind spade]

afaik many "max resources" were having issues with using all the nitrogen

[unique cypress]

Hmm I wonder what would SF Optimizer do if I gave it all the resources but no way to get rid of them other than making something out of them

It would undoubtedly sink a shit ton of iron ingots but I can disable them

And then keep disabling sinking the simplest items

[oblique hollow]

You just give it extra item inputs and disable all raw resources

[vapid gorge]

also, don't burn the plutnonium rods. That consumes zero sam

[lone igloo]

Huh

[plucky tusk]

Thats it thats all the recipes

[agile bobcat]

each input is 400, and it splits into 4 300

but for some reason my refineries cant get rid of their oil quick enough

which i am confused by

[unique cypress]

probably just do a line of 7 junctions. connect the odd ones as outputs and the even ones as inputs

[vapid gorge]

get rid of yoru existing pumps, put them here

also, I don't recommend this, mixing and merge/splitting fluid systems is often very annoying t odo

either clock your HOR producers into 4x groups of 3 from the start, or change how you set up the machiens that use the HOR

[agile bobcat]

ah ok

might be worth switching up the beginning then if this is gonna be a major issue

[vapid gorge]

I can be very annoying.
It's not impossible, and if you have the pipe experience and the time to put in trouble shooting things? sure go for it. But unless you're really die hard about it and will find trouble shooting the system fun? Just simplify your pipes instead

[agile bobcat]

yeah not particularly bothered

just want the bloody thing to work

[vapid gorge]

jsut a good pipe rule: keep it as simple as possible

[agile bobcat]

so annoying its like 6 gens that arent firing

i want that smooth 60k

[vapid gorge]

It's also possible it's to do with how you're feeding the HOR into your refineries

You could show some overhead shots of that?

[agile bobcat]

oh thats the crude going into the refineries, think u meant something else

theres no height issue

and each pipe of 400 feeds 10 in a row

[vapid gorge]

yeah but this section has it's own issues. If how you feed yoru HOR is any way similar you could have problems

for example here you have 1 pipe brahching off into 4 manifolds

whenever possible, 1 pipe, 1 manifold

[agile bobcat]

the crude oil is fine, no issues there

[vapid gorge]

pipes aren't belts :\ fluid is bi directional and you can get back flow at junctions

[agile bobcat]

just checked

hang on i think somethings just changed

[vapid gorge]

but you said your HOR isn't fine right?

[agile bobcat]

all the refinieries for the crude oil arent overcapped anymore

[vapid gorge]

until the final final step of a fluid system is running fine, you can't know if the steps behind it are fine

[agile bobcat]

im not seeing anymore idling on some of the machines

the fuck, did the pumps fix it and its just taken time to catch up...?

[vapid gorge]

'time happening' is a big cause of people mistaking things they've done that have 'fixed' pipe systems

like they actually fixed it 5 minutes ago, but they think the valve they just slapped down did it

[agile bobcat]

haha makes sense

in that case ill leave it for a few hours of game time, and come back if im still having issues

[vapid gorge]

good plan 🙂

[agile bobcat]

cheers lads

[vapid gorge]

a person's first big fuel station is often where they trip over pipes for hte first time

so don't sweat tooo hard if you don't get it flat flat

[agile bobcat]

honestly im surprised its gone so well

i have made things easy by only using about 90% of the total fuel output

[vapid gorge]

you seem to be using less than 600 flow pipes too, that gives you a lot of leeway in how you can place your pipes

[agile bobcat]

is that a good thing?

[vapid gorge]

well it means you have to be less careful with your pipes

600 flow pipes are totally doable, you just have to be aware of how you lay them out.

[agile bobcat]

fluid cant flow backwards through a pump right? @vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

nope

[agile bobcat]

ok cool

so if i have junctionsi should put one there just before it as a kind of stopper

[vapid gorge]

but if you have a serious flow issue further on it can fill up the space in front of a pump and cause a flow issue at that point still

I'd have to see how you're putting the junction and what you're doing with it. Generally, ime, you want to put the pumps after the junction if the pipes are going to multiple places

[agile bobcat]

also u got any tutorials for a 4 to 4 load balancer that looks good?

hmm

alright

well if i still have issues after a few more hours, you're very welcome to come and have a tour

[vapid gorge]

for belts? eh, just split each into 4 and merge one belt of each

oh, plan acordingly and clock yoru machines in groups that put what you need on them in the first place. That's the cleanest option

[wind spade]

yeah no need to balance

[agile bobcat]

ive got a closed loop of canisters

and its not equal

i wonder what this person is going to say 😂

[unique cypress]

you should have as many isolated loops as DPF refineries

[vapid gorge]

is this for diluted fuel?

[agile bobcat]

yh

[vapid gorge]

in this situation make the packager, refinery, unpackager in 1:1:1

[agile bobcat]

yeah i have that

[vapid gorge]

then you shouldn't have to balance anything

[agile bobcat]

i have 4 sets of production, but the canisters got mixed up i guess

didnt put the right amount in each lols

[unique cypress]

then why do you need a balancer for canisters?

1 refinery 2 packagers and that's it

loop the canisters 1:1:1

each one takes 30 HOR and 60 water and makes 60 fuel

[vapid gorge]

just 3 machines in a loop

[unique cypress]

repeat until you have the fuel you want

[agile bobcat]

lads

i know this, but like i said earlier - i buggered up the amount of canisters in each of the loops

so its not equal, which is why i need to balance them out

[vapid gorge]

Unless you linked them up that shouldn't matter?

[agile bobcat]

theres too many in one, ive noticed an issue thats being caused by it

its fine, ill figure it out

[vapid gorge]

just manually grab some of the empties out of the packager

if there's too many in a loop

[unique cypress]

I'd do it by hand. if the loops are compact, they only need like 20 canisters each

[sour hollow]

how is the power calculated for particle accelerators? it says 500-1500mhz but then it ramps up over that limit?

[deft lichen]

sawtooth

linearly increases from min to max twice per cycle

doesn't go over the limit

[oblique hollow]

Once per cycle

[deft lichen]

once???

[oblique hollow]

Once

[deft lichen]

I thought it matches the animation

[oblique hollow]

No, animation and power consumption are decoupled

power consumption follows recipe progress

Converters start at average, hit max, then average again, then min and they end at average again

So Converters hit min and max once per cycle too

[graceful tundra]

am i overcomplicating it?

[unique cypress]

yes. #math-and-meta message

[graceful tundra]

well, you don't get equal plastic an rubber rates tho

[unique cypress]

that setup makes any ratio you want

[graceful tundra]

how?

[unique cypress]

pull equally from both sides

[graceful tundra]

hmmmm

[unique cypress]

maybe change some refinery numbers

[graceful tundra]

well thank you !

[graceful tundra]

also, is plastic somewhat of a concern availability wise?

[unique cypress]

if you overbuild the recycling refineries, the ratio can be changed dynamically to match demand

[graceful tundra]

my ultimate goal is using all the uranium in the game towards power

and yes, i know ficsonium rods suck

but i wanna use them

[unique cypress]

if you use the recycling loop, you don't need that much oil for plastic/rubber.

and it makes plastic and rubber for the same oil cost (3 per 1 oil)

[unique cypress]

even if you use plastic heavy recipes, like caterium boards or whatever

[graceful tundra]

wait, can the production adapt to how much you pull? that's awesome

i just gotta build enough refineries to cover worst case scenario right?

[vapid gorge]

do 2 independent sections for your final production and then work backwards.

you can easily put together two nice factories that does exctly what you want

[unique cypress]

yeah, you just gotta not sink the excess and let the unused refineries idle

[graceful tundra]

ooooh, awesome, thank you for the help!!!

[graceful tundra]

kay, i'll remember

or at least try

[vapid gorge]

that way, you're doing specifically a plastic factory, and a rubber factory.
Each just uses a bit of resin to start off

[unique cypress]

the first half stays the same, the recycling refinery numbers just change. if you built 20 each in this case, it could support anything between all 900 being plastic and all 900 being rubber

[graceful tundra]

blows my mind that you can actually set any output

[graceful tundra]

?

[crimson moat]

it can also overflow fuel if you're not pulling full rate

so 3 products

[graceful tundra]

true, but idk what i'd do with a varying fuel output

[crimson moat]

yeah, limited usefulness 😛

[graceful tundra]

and there are no priority splitters sadly

[crimson moat]

what do you mean

[graceful tundra]

uh, fluid splitters

with priority

[unique cypress]

Package, priority split, unpackage

[crimson moat]

we can easily make those for liquids because of gravity. Liquids won't go up unless they have no choice, so you can perfectly prioritise flow paths by having one path climb a certain distance before moving on. Fuel will only go that way if it's not being drawn from the lower pipes, and backs up.

[graceful tundra]

yeah, i thought about that, but uuuh

[unique cypress]

Unless it's gas ☹️

[crimson moat]

Packaging works well for gas. Dark matter however.. 😬

[vapid gorge]

if you plan for a rubber factory with this recipes
then plan a seperate plastic factory

it's a lot easier making the individual processes than trying to plan a combined final output

[graceful tundra]

oh, well KYO's design is just what i needed

[magic island]

eh, I can't imagine wanting to package/transport/unpackage DMR for any reason

[ember axle]

there is, it's known as overflow junction

[graceful tundra]

in the stock game?

[ember axle]

yes, fluids flow to the lowest output first, so any elevated output is filled last

[tidal harbor]

is it cool to use 1 pure oil rig and 2 pure iron to make 3,300 steel per min

[jaunty lodge]

7 inputs 7 outputs would this work as a way to equally share the items between the outputs. the issue is each input is the same size as the elevator can carry

[oblique hollow]

if its 7 to 7 do you really need to try to equally split it up anyway?

[jaunty lodge]

oh yes because i need to transform the 7 into 8

[oblique hollow]

then its not a 7 to 7 is it now?

[unique cypress]

just do yourself a favour and get diluted fuel (the blender version)

[jaunty lodge]

now im too deep into it want to finish

[unique cypress]

because that is like the absolute worst way to do diluted packaged fuel

[jaunty lodge]

i will do something like this to split the items

[unique cypress]

a good diluted packaged fuel setup has zero splttters and zero mergers

well, aside those to manage the resin byproduct

[lone jewel]

I planned to rebuild my plastic and rubber factories (to add train stations directly into the factory, and to add belt balancers for outputs to the train stations); after messing with this setup in modeler some, I can see just how flexible it is; you can have some shared blueprints for the first section, with some variations for the 2nd half with preset recipes/clock rates set on the recycling refineries to control how much rubber/plastic to output, pretty cool

[young agate]

what are the best recipes to make turbo fuel? and possibly rocket fuel?

[unique cypress]

You definitely want Heavy Oil Residue and Diluted (Packaged) Fuel, but the rest depends on what you want, really

[young agate]

Why packaged? why not just diluted?

[unique cypress]

I put packaged in brackets. It depends on your tier. You can't get the blender version before blenders, so you use packaged in that case. After getting blenders, you just use the blender version

[young agate]

I have blenders

Diluted packaged and normal diluted are the same just without packagers

[brisk smelt]

iirc tbf is the best

[young agate]

wat? Iirc?

[brisk smelt]

if i remember

i havent used turbofuel since like 0.7 but recipes should be the same

[young agate]

Then what do u recommend?

Since i need fuel for my base + jetpacks when im out exploring

[vapid gorge]

define best?
what resources are you trying to make most use of?

what resources do you not care about burning up totally?

cause imo the best recipes for rocket fuel are 'don't use rocket fuel' 😛

uses none of hte resources and lets you build other power

remember, every tier of fuel processing effectively just turns other resources into more oil. Since you can just make more diluted fuel.

so pick recipes based on what resources you want to convert

[dusky dust]

Technically Packaged requires a bit more power, so they're not exactly the same. Though yeah, they are the same in terms of resource ratios, though. :)

(and the power difference is not huge)

[unique cypress]

Nah, all 3 recipes have their place. Blend is the most WP efficient, sure, but it makes 0 sense to use when you're burning turbo for power directly

[oblique hollow]

Turbo Heavy uses a lot more sulfur and oil but it also has very simple numbers and is easier to use for recylcing compacted coal from normal Rocket Fuel

[oblique hollow]

Blend for power had its place before 1.0 due to there also being less sulfur on the map

Blend used a bit more oil but less sulfur.

[unique cypress]

It really didn't. It's only 25% more oil efficient than burning regular-ass fuel, and it costs sulfur to make. If you're burning Turbo Blend, you might as well just burn Fuel instead and save yourself the effort of finding sulfur

Turbo heavy fuel has terrible oil and comp coal efficiency, so as far as I am concerned, it's only good for turbo ammo. But at least it's decent for that since it's very simple and doesn't require any ingredients you weren't already making

[oblique hollow]

Its not much effort of coal or sulfur are nearby already

[wet lion]

do I need 2 train station for the train to go both way ? on the same area

[vapid gorge]

well you need a starting station, and a destination station?

[wet lion]

I mean something like that

[vapid gorge]

no you need a station in the same direction as the train is coming

[wet lion]

ok ty

[wet lion]

when I have multiple freight platform do I have to place them all on all station ?

[vapid gorge]

well you need platforms for any car you need to load and unload

[wet lion]

yeah but if it doens't unload there but another station later

do I still have to place them anyway ?

[vapid gorge]

I don't understand what you mean

if you don't want a car to interact with a specific station, put a blank platform there

but in general keep your trains easy

point A to point B

[wet lion]

I have point A B C

[vapid gorge]

That's an option

like I said, use blank platforms

[wet lion]

empty platforms ?

[vapid gorge]

yup

its in your build menu

[wet lion]

I saw that ty

[unique cypress]

You'd only need something like that if you wanted the train to be able to stop at the station when arriving from either direction

[wet lion]

ah

ok

[wet lion]

does this radar tower show hard drives already taken ?

[oblique hollow]

It should not show taken ones

[wet lion]

are you sure ?

can this be automatically toggled ?

[vapid gorge]

those don't matter for automated trains

[wet lion]

?

[vapid gorge]

afaik they only matter when you're driving trains manually

[wet lion]

yeah but can automated trains still go forward here ?

[vapid gorge]

yup they'll ignore them

[wet lion]

so is that useless ?

[unique cypress]

The train will toggle it if it needs to

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you're trying to do with it so can't comment

[wet lion]

can this type of rock be exploded ?

[wet lion]

I did a three station train

[brisk smelt]

no

[wet lion]

I can't dismantle because of that setting how do I change ?

[tawny chasm]

press r

to change mode back to default

[wet lion]

ty

[low wasp]

Hello anyone has a formula for wagons needed for a train loop? Im working with a train system but i really dont want to have bottleneck due to the trains

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Train_throughput

[low wasp]

Thank you!

[runic kraken]

will the bottom pipe have priority input over the right pipe?

[unique cypress]

I feel like this is a question for @oblique hollow

the standard VIP uses a top and a side input, so I'm not sure how it'll work with a bottom and side

[runic kraken]

oh top and side?

which one has priority in that case?

[oblique hollow]

well, its in the right orientation.... but the side connections have much weaker priority than top to bottom i guess

Im not an expert on the junction bug issue though

[runic kraken]

im really flipping confused by the prioritry thing?

[oblique hollow]

it IS confusing because its bug behaviour

[runic kraken]

so right to left is highest priority and then bottom and top?

[oblique hollow]

left and right have equal priority to each other
left/right vs bottom have low priority
top has the least priority
thats how i understood it at least

[runic kraken]

ok

[unique cypress]

I feel like the priority should either be top, side, bottom or bottom, side, top.

but then again, it is a bug so I wouldn't be surprised if side was last for some reason

[runic kraken]

so left and top being inputs and right being output left will have priority over top and bottom right?

[oblique hollow]

just build a normal ass VIP like in the manual and dont risk it with a half baked one

[runic kraken]

ok

[unique cypress]

yeah, I built one from memory once and it ended up not working

could've been because the junction was oriented wrong tho

[runic kraken]

do i need the top output on the side?

[oblique hollow]

its not needed afiak

[unique cypress]

I always skip it and it's fine so ig not

[oblique hollow]

its just an artifact from building it

[runic kraken]

so this will work?

[oblique hollow]

i always start with 2 horizontal pipes onto which i snap the junctions

[runic kraken]

ah ok

[oblique hollow]

the orientation here looks right, so it should work

[runic kraken]

tysm

for the explanations

ur the goats

[feral breach]

First factory here we go... 😄 its not great but it will get me started

[unique cypress]

ah, yes, 0.003 assemblers for default rotors. definitely not great

[feral breach]

oh... didnt even notice 😄

Slightly more copper sheets then 😄

it snuck in again ffs 😄

[wind spade]

stop using maximise 🙂

[feral breach]

Ive used that only on the copper sheets

[unique cypress]

it's not necessarily maximize mode's fault. could also be because of the resource limits. which I also never use

[feral breach]

its probably combination... there is more iron and copper near so I guess I can go bigger

I just wanted to fully use the 3 nodes if possible 😄

[wind spade]

yeah I wouldn't really care about "fully using nodes" 🙂

[unique cypress]

yeah, I'd suggest more sheets than 8.5. I just used one entire node for them

idk what that ended up being but enough

[feral breach]

just wanted to make it from the overflow as Im not making any yet 😄

Guess this is it and Ill just make a copper stuff factory somewhere else 😄

Ive just noticed I cant actually make the rotor with that recipe... Im not able to bring in that many screws... back to the drawing board 😄

[unique cypress]

you can. just need more assemblers

[fringe seal]

people who are using ionized fuel for drones: how much are your drones actually taking?

[dusky dust]

In case nobody ends up responding, btw, you should be able to trust the "trip time" and "fuel per trip" numbers from the drone port, once the drone has made a couple of deliveries. Divide those to get the per-minute fuel usage for that particular drone route. (The specific per-min number will depend on the route, of course)

(The fuel-per-minute display on the drone port appears to be bugged, alas. With batteries, at least, it consistently reports a higher per-minute usage than there actually is (which is better than the alternative, of course))

[fringe seal]

thanks, it is 2nd playthrough and it is so long since that I've forgot that

[dusky dust]

Alternately, SCIM will do the math properly if you load a save in there and investigate the drone port (and will technically be slightly more accurate than manual division, since the display of fuel-per-trip is technically rounded a lot of the time)

Just make sure that the drone's completed a couple of routes in-game before saving and loading into SCIM

[fringe seal]

(though I am asking about typical use case, is 100 Ionized Fuel canisters / min enough?)

[dusky dust]

Depends how many drones you want to fuel, and what the per-minute usage ends up being like. :D

[fringe seal]

ig it depends on my exact setup, true

[dusky dust]

For comparison, on my 1.0 save, I was averaging about 2.5/min for both Batteries and Rocket Fuel, for drone powering, for drones that were constantly active

So I'd expect Ionized to be better than that

[fringe seal]

ahhh
that's a helpful info

[dusky dust]

I think the "fixed" fuel consumption per trip ends up evening out some of the energy differences; I'd've expected a bit more space between Batteries and RF, but in practice they were nearly identical for me

Could just be that the average distances between my Battery-fed routes and RF-fed routes were different enough to close the gap, too

One of these days I should see if there's a mod which provides a configurable generic "Generate x/min of resource y" building, for easier AGS-test-save testing

Instead of having to blueprint ISCs full of whatever resource you want ∞ of

[unique cypress]

I've been thinking of making a mod like that but then I realized I didn't want to make dozens of recipes by hand lol

I could maybe write a script to create json files for contentlib but idk how easy it'd be

plus doing it with contentlib would kinda suck

unless I could attach those recipes to a custom milestone

[real current]

Question. Does Belt-Welding still work, or did they patch that out? https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Conveyor_Belts#Belt_welding

i can't seem to get it to work,

[unique cypress]

it worked in 1.0, but it resulted in a dupe bug when you welded a belt with itself so it might've been patched out entirely

if placing a splitter/merger right at the joint doesn't work, then ig it's been removed

[real current]

oh ya, i remember seeing a youtube short about duping items, and promply ignored it... .after all why go to alll the work to dupe an item, when you can simply go use the savegame editor, and fill entire containers with whatever you want

i guess though if your playing it on a console you can't really edit your save game

[unique cypress]

there's AGS still

[real current]

AGS?

[unique cypress]

advanced game settings

[real current]

oh yea.. godmode

[loud flume]

How did you do that

[vapid gorge]

do what?

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it'd be annoying to have traditional recipes, for sure. In my mind it'd be a very custom UI on the panel with, like, a combobox where you could just start typing a resource and you'd get an autocomplete dropdown

[dusky dust]

If you mean just "how did you generate that graph," that's https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[crimson moat]

and if you snap them on a vertical pipe, the junction will be rotated 90 degrees on one axis and it wont work 😄 (common building mistake earlier, causing weird and inconsistent test results with VIP junction)

[wind spade]

Not sure, also why do you want to do that?

[vapid gorge]

yeah the b2b bug is gone now.

[tawdry orchid]

Should I get the pipes one or reroll? (ive got the pure iron pipes recipe already) im in phase 2

[unique cypress]

I never reroll drives. if I don't want either recipe, I just keep the drive in the library. then the 2 recipes in the drive don't appear in next drives

I wouldn't take either of these 2, but they aren't terrible or anything take them if you want them

[tawdry orchid]

okey thanks

[rapid lake]

https://ficsit.app/mod/MagicMachine

This might be what you are looking for

[wind spade]

Well, the question should be "which of these you like more"

[swift rose]

Do pipes like this between junctions cause grey hairs on the pioneer or are we good?

[unique cypress]

should be fine

[gilded sorrel]

I never take a recipe until I am using it to solve an immediate problem. That said, I love the molded pipe because I decided to make pipes more efficiently off-site for my motor factory since I found it hard to keep up with steel production for so many things and, I didn't have enough room to do it all on site. And then I can use those pipes other places too.

[hexed temple]

wich one?

[unique cypress]

I'd want both

[hexed temple]

yeah same

but wichj one

[unique cypress]

then take whichever one you're more likely to use sooner

[hexed temple]

steel frame

[hexed temple]

modulair frame and steel frame are the same, no?

so i can use them as replacement?

[deft lichen]

the items are the same, alternate recipes allow you to use different ingredients

[hexed temple]

thanks

[deft lichen]

these are all the ways to make modular frames, for example

you should try and get way more alt recipes, they're instanely helpful

[hexed temple]

yeah i realized

this was my first one

[wind spade]

Whichever you want

[viscid marsh]

The trick is to pick neither, until you're ready to build the factory for it. Unless they are both good ones, because then you're hoping the one you don't pick will come back.

[hexed temple]

2nd one since ill have more use for it rn

[runic kraken]

this makes me want to backflip through a window
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=D5ORCYKtGjkf75iY4Rkp

im like half way done

[unique cypress]

there https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=NcsPOH4aELQLqByspZYE
it's now like half the size lmao

[runic kraken]

but its not making all the stuff i want :c

[unique cypress]

you don't need to automate project parts. or batteries. or heat sinks.

[runic kraken]

why not

[unique cypress]

and the basic aluminium items can go in another factory that makes them in more reasonable amounts

[runic kraken]

project parts are goog sink value i think

[runic kraken]

wdym by that am i making too little?

[unique cypress]

project parts can be handfed to make the exact amount needed and heat sinks and batteries aren't used for building

[fringe seal]

Power plan:
900 crude can be turned into 2000 rocket fuel (192 fuel gens @ 250%) and 100 turbofuel, using a combination of turbo blend fuel and normal turbofuel
Turbo Blend Fuel allows me to remove Coal from the line completely, the only other resource I need is Sulfur
by using the 100 Turbofuel (and residual plastic), I can drone the fuel needed to operate a fuel gen which will power a miner and an unpacker

[wind spade]

They are, yeah

[wet lion]

can you have multiple trains on a same track ?

[runic kraken]

ye

[unique cypress]

considering mk5 belt take alclad sheets, I would absolutely run out making only 20/min or whatever you had

[wet lion]

what happens if they crash or something like that ?

[runic kraken]

if they crash they crash

[unique cypress]

use signals so they don't do that

[runic kraken]

i think im already in too deep to remake this

[fringe seal]

since train paths are static, you'd need all trains to go in the same direction

[runic kraken]

not true

[wet lion]

what signals ?

[unique cypress]

train signals?
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Train_Signals

[wet lion]

ah I need tickets ig

[runic kraken]

t6 milestone

[wet lion]

ah ok ty

[fringe seal]

hm
last info I knew was that they do not use alternate routes

[unique cypress]

they don't. but idk how dynamic routing has anything to do with multiple trains using the same section of track

[runic kraken]

im not building 24/7 they can just pile up

[fringe seal]

my line of thought was that you'd need sidings if the track is bidirectional, which they can't use in this game

[versed violet]

As long as they are mk2. having mk1 in there where everything else is mk2 is what causes grey hairs.

[wind spade]

They can with signals

Signals are one-way

[swift rose]

I don't use Mk.2 unless I can't split it into Mk.2

[fringe seal]

yeah that's why I said it had to be one direction

[swift rose]

Such as a single machine output being >300m³/min

[unique cypress]

... you can sitll have multiple trains use the same track in the same direction

[versed violet]

one day you will upgrade to mk2, foget that tiny part and spend hours debugging.

[swift rose]

I won't

[fringe seal]

(that's what I said...?)

[swift rose]

This powerplant is made for these values

[wind spade]

You can have multiple trains use same track in different directions as well

[tame dagger]

Does anybody know a video where they explain how water pipe and pump work, if so can you send link?

[unique cypress]

well, not at once

[wind spade]

Well, they can... but just once 🙂

But yeah, otherwise not at once

[swift rose]

I don't really see the point here ngl if I don't use Mk.2 in general unless I have no choice

[swift rose]

And maybe I'll upgrade this plant to whatever kind of fuel one day but that'll require an entire remodel so that piece of pipe will be removed anyway

[slender yoke]

goofy question how does one go about a 5:6 balancer

[nova steppe]

Id make a 2:3 and a 3:3 then just ratio split

I think that would work

or no

a 2:6 and a 3:6, then merge