math-and-meta

[frosty owl]

This sounds really exaggerated. Ofc, everyone thinks differently when planning, but generally speaking when watching a node one is interested in what items go in the node to make what output. Wether the process is described as icons or text makes no difference in how recognizable things are, other than personal preference for text Vs icons

Your point about "what if you don't know that recipe" leaves me confused as I don't see why it's relevant... No matter the planner, if you don't know the recipes you'll want to check them out online or in-game 🤷‍♂️

So, addressing the main point: the name of a recipe is completely unnecessary to understand a production, unless your mind specifically favors that way of thinking

[dusky dust]

Heh, I'll stay off my soapbox except to point out that if I have the name of a recipe, I can do a one-second Google search to find the recipe, or even just type it into a Codex search bar. Good luck doing that when you have no idea what it even is

For myself I am absolutely not exaggerating; I find Modeller graphs absolutely abhorrent as information-conveyance, and I know I'm not the only one.

Literally my only complaint is the lack of labels, but I seem to have found my way back to a soapbox

The reason is because Modeller really isn't meant to be a vector for information-conveyance but people use it that way anyway

[frosty owl]

Note: nobody said that adding labels to Modeler would be bad

[dusky dust]

It's meant to be a planning tool, and the person doing the planning gets mouseovers and access to all the information they'd need

A static Modeller image can't do that, though

There's a reason why literally every other solver/grapher out there has labels

[frosty owl]

And I get that. I understand that you don't have an easy time figuring out a production process based on icons alone. But saying that everyone is like that doesn't quite sit right with me (else, me and others should become "nobody")

[frosty owl]

You just search the output items. Most lists of recipes are based on that, knowings the name of the specific recipe isn't necessary to find it 🤷‍♂️

[dusky dust]

A vehicle for information dispersal should be as clear as possible to the maximum amount of people. As you say, nobody is saying that adding labels to Modeller would be bad.

The lack of labels is 100% a barrier to that information dispersal, and their lack absolutely makes it the worst graph format for information dispersal out of every other option

[frosty owl]

Debatable, but still greatly different from something that "nobody will understand"

[dusky dust]

I'm not saying that there aren't people who can look at a Modeller graph and read it as easily as one that does have labels, but I am saying that Modeller's graphs are manifestly worse because of the lack

[dusky dust]

If I have said somewhere that "nobody can understand Modeller graphs" then I'll happily retract that statement and apologize; I definitely did not mean to imply as such.

(That's not a "go find a link to prove me wrong" or whatever; legit if I have said or implied that, I did not mean to)

But I do 100% stand by my statement that compared to any graph with labels, Modeller's are manifestly worse (for information dispersal to third parties, anyway)

[frosty owl]

I don't know how else to read this 🤷‍♂️
#math-and-meta message

[dusky dust]

Hah, okay, fair enough. So yeah: I apologize for that, overuse of "anyone" there. :D

I still stand by my stance about information dispersal, though

(And I do still honestly feel that even if you don't mind Modeller's graphs, it's gotta more mental load to interpret than if things were just labelled. Maybe that mental load isn't noticeable to folks who like the format and are more used to it, but it's there.)

Anyway, I'm doing a piss-poor job of staying off this soapbox, eh? :D

[frosty owl]

Meh. Other than some specific instances (recipes sharing inputs and outputs) I don't really see additional value in an added label other than helping anyone who prefers text over icons. I mean, so long as one doesn't have issues recognizing icons (ie: reading "quickwire" or a picture of it takes the same effort), the info provided is complete: what items are involved in that one node. If you just have the name, you have to fill in the inputs/outputs yourself, mentally, regardless of wether you think about them as names or icons (eg: reading a node whose inputs/outputs go outside the screen)

Sorry for the edits, this hits a bad spot for my English skills

[dusky dust]

I mean, as I say, I know I'm not the only one who finds those Modeller graphs nearly completely impenetrable. Someone posts one of those saying "what do you think of this chain?" and there's essentially nothing immediately obvious to me.

It's not a personal preference, it's an outright solid barrier to usefulness

A graphing format which imposes those kinds of restrictions is manifestly worse than ones that don't. As I say, I know I'm not alone in this.

(Which, again, I get that producing these graphs for information dispersal is not Modeller's primary purpose. What I'm saying isn't even really a complaint about Modeller itself, just how its graphs end up being used)

[limpid vapor]

You know that grandma with glasses meme? That's me any time I try to look at a modeller graph

[dusky dust]

One more brief note and then I swear I'm shutting up for real, since it's bedtime. re: If you just have the name, you have to fill in the inputs/outputs yourself <- note that with every other graph format that gets used for this kind of thing, you also have the inputs/outputs. You have more information because it's all written out explicitly. Modeller could do that too, but it doesn't.

It's not like there's a grapher out there which just spits out a list of recipe names

You get recipe names, machine names, resource names, all spelled out. Often there's icons too. Great! Have both. But having no labels (apart from numbers, sure) is a total barrier

[frosty owl]

I understand that. I just don't find that to be a wall high enough to think of it as something inaccessible to the average user.
I remember when I was scratching my head about what all those names with little variations meant back when I didn't have all names memorized and was familiar with SFTools, but I also didn't make a fuss about wanting icons so I could easily understand what items each name is referring to.
For clarity, I'm not trying to say Modeler is perfect for sharing... Just that it's "fine" 🤷‍♂️ most should understand easily, some not.

[dusky dust]

Anyway, yeah, sleeptimes for me; sorry for getting overly loquatious about this; obviously I feel strongly about it. :)

[frosty owl]

It's fine. It's always a pleasure to debate you as you don't easily slip into rudeness ^^

[frosty owl]

Not having input/output of a node always aviable to the eye is a problem of SFTools, not Modeler!
In Modeler the icons for in/out are on each node plus the connections. In SFTools the names for in/out are only on the connections, which can be cut-off from view depending on zoom and size of the plan

[low spruce]

sorry to interrupt but while you're debating about how modeler graphs suck to read, here's my modeler graph. is it stupid to repeatedly recycle if the crude oil usage is less by the end by a large margin? 😅 i feel like i slipped into a rabbit hole

[vapid gorge]

work on one final output at a time, then work backwards

sa yyou want to make 600 rubber pm from the loop

you know you need to feed 300 plastic into the last step right?
and the step before that 150 rubber. Ect

[frosty owl]

Recycling is very efficient. You don't "lose" anything whenever you use it 😉
But yeah, working from the final step can also help you get your head out of the current rabbit hole and look at the whole process in a better and more complete perspective (try using just one node for Plastic and one for Rubber, just to have a better view of the numbers)

[vapid gorge]

for example it's very easy to work backwards here and sort out how big each step you want ot have is

I would also dedicate fuel producers for each section rather than branch it to multiple manifolds

[low spruce]

ah okay thank you both so much. this turns 500 extra steps and a ton of headache into this small block for all the plastic and rubber I need.

not sure if i shuold have residual rubber too but it is still a lot better I think

modeler freaks out if i split my polymer resin into 2 different lines

[upbeat turtle]

since you guys look smart ima ask, how do i see all my structures built on the map?

[low spruce]

you can upload your save into satisfactory calculator and see them. if you dont know, you can find save file if you search %localappdata% -> FactoryGame\Saved\SaveGames and find your save and drag and drop where it says

[upbeat turtle]

ty

[frosty owl]

You mean Residual Plastic, you already have Rubber ^^
Given that Rubber has twice the output of Plastic for the same amount of Polymer, I tend to prefer making just Rubber with it

[low spruce]

yes thank you, i figured that too cus the crude oil is a bit higher with residual plastic

[trim kernel]

any suggestion what can i do with 480steel ingots/1m as a first "big factory" i am at phase 3

will producing 60 steel beams and 160 steel pipes will be a good idea?

[deft lichen]

get the encased industrial pipe alt, then make just 30 beams and invest the rest into pipes

most of your steel will end up being eaten by encased industrial beams

[trim kernel]

this one?

[wind spade]

keep them as ingots until you have need for some product

don't try to guess what you'll need in the future, build what you need now

[trim kernel]

the problem is i need to have some resource production cuz i don't have any

[wind spade]

well if you want to make something for storage, do that - but that falls under "build what you need now"

my point is to not try to make things for "future factories"

[trim kernel]

k

[slender merlin]

Is it possible to have a priority merger below ground ? should I just put down the middle pipe a bit down, then add vertical merger and bring the additional water here ?

[vapid gorge]

sure but bottom feeding can easily cause issues

[vapid gorge]

highly recommend keeping waste and fresh water systems split for this

[slender merlin]

I see, what if I set my water extractor to only bring the difference with what I already produce ? then I don't need priority merger ?

[wind spade]

same issue - any slight problem in production can break it

hence why we recommend separating the productions

[slender merlin]

so the recommendation is to not recycle water back in alu prod but somewhere else ?

[wind spade]

the recommendation is to recycle water, but in a separate setup

every refinery runs either on fresh water or byproduct water, but never both

[slender merlin]

oh okay I see. watched 3-4 videos on alu prod on youtube, none is recommending that X) but I trust more the discord hehe

thx

[wind spade]

yeah don't trust youtube

50% of the videos are straight up wrong, 40% are questionable and remaining 10% may be right or right but outdated

[slender merlin]

will keep that in mind now

[crimson moat]

this is the best alu vid on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwO-F82sYE4

we know more about how and why stuff works now, though

for example: due to a bug which sets junction connections to the wrong height when they're not horizontal, liquid VIP junction works in 2 out of 4 possible orientations. The other 2 don't work (as found in the video). Literally, rotating the junction 90 degrees massively changes how it works.

Without the bug, it shouldn't work at all.

[vapid gorge]

This is a terrible video that recommends a lot of finicky methods that aren’t generally reliable

Way too many people came in here after the video was posted with busted systems that weren’t working even though they were replicated right

[unique cypress]

actually, I never bothered to check. did he build the VIP correctly?

[trim kernel]

guys as far as remember there was glass foundation in this game but i cannot find it, where was it, or i am just tweaking and it was never there

[slender merlin]

You speak about the video linked above ?

[vapid gorge]

Yup. Really fiddly and unreliable builds

[vapid gorge]

Yup, buy it in the awesome shop

[trim kernel]

its not there i can't find it

where should it be

[vapid gorge]

I believe you have to unlock silica

[trim kernel]

i have

literally just setted a production of it

[vapid gorge]

honestly one of hte most annoying things about it is they barely mention the split system greeny showed you, though it's objectively the most reliable build option you have

[trim kernel]

is this some kind of bug or what

[vapid gorge]

maybe you already bought it ? or haven't unlocked the parts you need

[trim kernel]

i have not

[trim kernel]

i mean the only thing you would need to built those are just sillica and concrete so

[spare kernel]

Is there a way to refuel an drone not at his home station? For example I have an centralized station where all drones unload their cargo, is it possible to refuel all drones there, so i dont have to ship fuel to every drone collection outpost

[trim kernel]

tbf glass roofs works almost the same but where tf did foundations go

[limpid vapor]

Wrong subset https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Frame_Structures

If you mean glass frame foundation

[trim kernel]

fk thx i forgot it was there, i thought i was tweaking or smt

[unique cypress]

It's better to set up the recycling loop like this. It's self-regulating and you can just build the refineries in 2 rows

[ripe wing]

uh can someone help me im bad with these maths

i got 194.445 rocket fuel in one pipe going into 40 fuel burners

so 194.445/40 is 4.861125

thats how much each one should burn but i could just OC some fuel burners harder

so i dont use 40 shards

but idk how to calculate how many and how much do i OC

follow me

so if i do
194.445/4.167

my fuel per fuel burned i get 46.663

[trim kernel]

😎

[ripe wing]

so im missing 6.663 burners

[vapid gorge]

I guess?

you could just over clock a few gens higher than others so you don't need 40 shards

[ripe wing]

but my brain farts

[ripe wing]

yeah so im missing 6.663 so i need to OC that many to get it

but my brain farts and i cant calc thatg

[vapid gorge]

what's the burn per min for rocket fuel?

[ripe wing]

4.167

[vapid gorge]

ok so you just need 4666.5% clocking spread across 40 gens

you could do that with 14 shards

[ripe wing]

so rn i got 4000 yeah

[vapid gorge]

since you need 666.5% clocking

[ripe wing]

okay so thats how i do it

calculating in clocking % is easier

so i got 6 at 200% and one at 166.5%

[vapid gorge]

sure

[ripe wing]

alright thank you so much

[wind spade]

what do you want to know about the recipes?

[unique cypress]

It's 46.(6), actually, if you don't round

So if you want to fit within 40 it's for example 35 at 100% and 5 at 233.3333%

[ripe wing]

isnt it the same thing

as 6 at 200 and 1 at 166.665

i get 666.665% either way

but 233.3333 is easier to set

[old zephyr]

is there an amount of trains on one track that becomes too much? e.g. if I want to end up ultimately connecting all the tracks in my world to allow trains to do whatever they need whenever, will it hamper throughput in any items? (or can I just eliminate this by generally bringing in more resources needed by the factory and using a buffer w/ overflow protection

[ripe wing]

bringing more with buffer is the move i think

but u can even have 100 trains in one track

if u do signalling right?

someone confirm this

[unique cypress]

The limit of a single track is something on the order of a few thousand stacks per minute

The theoretical max is 4000 stacks/min, practically you should be able to reach 1-2k

[slender merlin]

any idea why it will go idle sometimes ? :/

[unique cypress]

You're not removing the alumina fast enough

[slender merlin]

hmmm, don't understand from where the bottleneck comes 🙁

have 2 aluminum scrap refinery at 125%, one is working 100 % but the otherone around 90 %

[unique cypress]

Are the machines consuming the alumina idling because of a lack of it?

[slender merlin]

I think yes, the scrap and the water get out instantly and coal is full, so only alumina solution could be the problem

the other machine with same settings works at 100 %

this is the setup i run

600 bauxites /m comes, 600 water from pumps, 300 from recylcing. water network is separated

[trim kernel]

liquid cap 50

[slender merlin]

what do you mean ?

[trim kernel]

liquid capacity in this game is 50 so when liquid aluminium in output reaches something like 38-50 when your production is 12 it will stop until there will be less than 38 liquid aluminium

[frosty owl]

Here's some math, if you like~
#satisfactory message

TDLR: ~100k items/min (conservative estimate)

[old zephyr]

thoughts on encased industrial pipe alt rec?

[unique cypress]

cheaper than default

plus with iron pipe you can skip steel entirely

[slim gate]

so i've just been working in satisfactory modeler for the last hour putting together a flowchart for assembly director systems. after completing the flow for adaptive control units and then dragging around the machines into as neat of an order as i can, i'm realizing that when i go to build the supercomputers flow that i'll have overlap in things like smelters and whatever else supercomputers share with ACUs. My instinct was to build it and then drag the whole thing around, making it one big integrated blob, but i'm also thinking maybe it might be valid to just make it two separate assembly lines where the final two products merge into one manufacturer just like in the picture, just for ease of use with ingots running to constructors and their byproducts going to other constructors or assemblers, not having to worry about that spaghetti. advice?

[old zephyr]

if you want to do that and are that worried about spaghetti + have the room, make a logistic floor either above it or below it all, have the inputs and outputs from each machine lifted down or up, then hide the spaghetti

[slim gate]

less worried about aesthetics of spaghetti, more worried about trying to figure out where to place all these machines so that conveyors actually have a path to and from the various machinery instead of clipping all over the place

which i guess means i am worried about aesthetics of spaghetti?

[old zephyr]

yeah lol

theyre going to clip unless you spend a meticolous amount of time organizing each belt

which is still going to take up a ton of space

I personally have all my machines (usually manifold though) on top, then all belts on a floor below

[slim gate]

side note, sent the pic to my non satisfactory playing friend, and he was a little overwhelmed

[old zephyr]

i keep the actual factory high up, the logistics one floor down, and then mega spaghetti on the ground hidden by walls

yeah

its overwhelming even when ur doing it

[brisk smelt]

you're using basically the worst possible recipes too btw just fyi

sftools is much better in this regard

[slim gate]

didn't think i'd have to say it out loud, but i guess i will. i'm using all the alts that i have at my disposal. the only ones of use for me right now are pure caterium ingots, caterium wire, and caterium circuit boards. i don't have a bunch of late game alts

[woven stirrup]

any reason why these items aren't going to storage? its a sushi belt

[unique cypress]

none of the relevant alts are endgame alts

[slim gate]

i mean i'm not saying that they are or aren't, i just haven't discovered what i haven't discovered. the point of my question was about layout, not recipes. i'm planning to build based on what i have because i'd like to build. if i wanted to play the rng lottery and spend a few hours of playtime exploring for other alts i'd do that. i likely will do that at some point in the future or in another playthrough and build this whole thing again. that's one of the huge upsides to this beautiful game. they gave it a lot of replayability by giving you ways to do the same thing you did before in a different way. there's no need for me to do the most optimal thing on the first try. i've never built these parts before.

I just immediately get frustrated when someone chimes in with their two cents about something that i didn't ask for.

[plucky tusk]

Lol i think thats close to what i did on mine

Yeah just made the acus on site then pulled super computures from existing production

[knotty hornet]

Looks like the lifts didnt snap in? Can't tell without some motion

[woven stirrup]

i solved it, apparently if you connect the lifts directly to the storage it doesnt go in for some reason, had to put a belt. maybe a bug, idk

[jovial wren]

I'm soon going to make a nuclear power plant for my phase 9 needs and i was wondering if there were any alternate recipes or steps i should take to utilise the tier 9 unlocks in this process

[brisk urchin]

much

just so that you know, with uranium and plutonium you can get 1.19TW

with all the good alternates

[jovial wren]

i'm limiting myself with the amount of water i currently have on base. but if it turns out to be way too little then maybe i'll get some more

I have 8 600 pipes

[brisk urchin]

means 8 generators

[unique cypress]

do not build a nuke plant in your base. do not even build it near your base

[brisk urchin]

not much

[jovial wren]

8 * 600

[unique cypress]

8@250%

[brisk urchin]

true LMAO

[jovial wren]

oh no?

[visual ocean]

if there is a wall above a drone port but they enter from the side, will they do it or just clip through?

[unique cypress]

they clip through everything

[brisk urchin]

they will just straight up ignore it

[unique cypress]

radiation obviously

[jovial wren]

does it go very far?

[brisk urchin]

yer

[unique cypress]

100m max, unless it's waste storage, then usually up to 500m-1km

[jovial wren]

hm. i was hoping to have it be isolated in a corner but maybe that was too hopeful of me

[jovial wren]

aaaaa gosh ok....

[unique cypress]

corner of the map, yes

[jovial wren]

what purity is the uranium node on top of the tallest peak of the map

i'll max out that one and use that for my limiting factor

[unique cypress]

I mean radiation is mitigated with the hazmat suit, so you don't take damage, and the filters can be automated, but the sounds of the geiger counter are annoying. and you can't AFK for too long or you'll run out of filters and die

[unique cypress]

impure

[jovial wren]

sounds annoying. plus the indicator

[jovial wren]

guh i dont know how much uranium i should be needing

i'll check the numbers tomorrow i guess. i just dont want to be making everything from scratch

[unique cypress]

I mean 300 uranium (1 impure node) is up to 90 GW from uranium, then 80 GW from Plutonium, and then 40 GW from Ficsonium

if my math is right

[jovial wren]

WHA

okay thats peak !!!

(im only at ~14gw barely and its really really hard)

pretty much just scratching by with only coal, geysers and a very simple fuel setup that barely works hhh

[frail sigil]

14000000 watts

[unique cypress]

off by a few zeros there

[low spruce]

do recycling plants take a while to get stable?

[hoary oar]

depends how exactly its set up
also depends on, if you turn everything on at the same time or prefill some pipes

but they should not take longer than a max of maybe 2-3 minutes? unless you got some stupidly long pipes/buffers attached

[visual yarrow]

Okay. Leached Caterium versus Pure Caterium, pros and cons.

...okay, con 1, I haven't actually unlocked Leached.

Oh, I guess i'll throw Tempered in there as well. I forget that exists a lot.

[viral sparrow]

who?

[visual yarrow]

Okay, Leached has been unlocked.

[visual yarrow]

It's the one that uses petroleum coke.

Here, i'll even do this since it happens to nicely fit all four recipes into the UI scroll menu.

[viral sparrow]

you missed the joke lol

[visual yarrow]

Yes, I very much did. I still don't get it, you'll have to explain it.

[viral sparrow]

i also forgot what it was so i asked who (i knew what it was but its so forgettable)

[visual yarrow]

Anyways...

[unique cypress]

is either of the tempered recipes ever worth using?

[visual yarrow]

• default has the worst ratio of ore to bars, but easily the simplest setup
• pure is slow and requires more refineries than I care to build with, but has a good ratio

Uhh... one of them I think is actually decent, but I never remember which.

• tempered has the same ratio of ore to bars as pure, but needs oil into petroleum coke. this, however, gives you far fewer total machines needed as well as most of them being foundries...
• leached needs sulfur, which is always hard to gauge the precise value of, which does mean an extra processing step, but it has the best ratio. i think it's also total fewer machines than pure to process the same amount of ore

[hoary oar]

i used tempered caterium in my swamp complex because i had enough oil from the well left over after doing all the aluminum stuff, to do 1200 caterium
but i probably would not use it if i didnt already have some leftover oil

[visual yarrow]

Unfortunately, I don't really... have any clue how much caterium I need. Or frankly, have, given that I haven't even decided on what node(s) to grab.

But the next project is gonna be computers, and that's going to need caterium in some way, no matter how I approach it.

[hoary oar]

if you use fused quickwire whenever possible you don't need all that much tbh

[visual yarrow]

hmm. thinking about it, leached needs 5 parts sulfur for every 9 caterium ore, which is a non-negligible amount, especially since I plan on using instant scrap for bauxite

[unique cypress]

unless you need a shit ton of QW lol

[visual yarrow]

You don't need that much unless you need a lot.

[unique cypress]

I'll need 37k/min for my planned nuke plant

[visual yarrow]

You know... all things considered, i'm actually kinda leaning towards Tempered?

It fits the circumstances i'm in.

Which is to say

Okay, and then 30 units of crude oil will make enough petroleum coke to process 360 caterium ore into 180 bars. Per minute, at base clock speeds, using a total of two refineries (not counting resin byproduct) and eight foundries.

That means... one impure oil node can process 1,800 caterium ore.

That's actually not bad at all.

[brisk urchin]

you doing that recepie?

i personaly find the pure recepies more balanced

[visual yarrow]

I'm considering it.

[brisk urchin]

understandable

[visual yarrow]

...Isn't there a caterium node over here somewhere? Or is it just outside of my radar coverage?

[brisk urchin]

but ever since ive built a mega iron smelter with leached ingot ive reconsidered the recepies DRASTICALY

[visual yarrow]

Mostly, i'm just not a fan of building 7500% clock speed worth of refineries.

[hoary oar]

there is, right next to the oil well in the swamp

[brisk urchin]

because i wasted so much sulfur, coal, sam and a litle limestone just so that the ore to ingot multiplyer is 2,5x instead of like 2,4x

[visual yarrow]

Oh, that's outside of the radar coverage, and I remember exactly where that is, too.

Right here.

[hoary oar]

and as previously mentioned
this oil well is exactly enough to process all 3000 bauxite in the swamp + 1200 caterium

[visual yarrow]

...Wait, I actually had that screen capture of unrevealed territory dead-on to the location. Nice.

Hmm. As much as it usually tends to be something I do to procrastinate while actually still accomplishing something, I think this might be a good time to expand the rail network down towards the swamp.

I'm sort of using a "rail grid" approach, primarily because that bit of rail that goes directly through the spire coast looks gorgeous, but also because it makes track-side stations more feasible if I plan ahead for the train direction.

IE, I have a train going around this loop counter-clockwise, and thus all of the relevant stations are on the outside track.

...Wait, was that on THIS save? Hahaha.

I am totally getting distracted, but this foundation here was the result of attempting to prevent an explorer I accidentally drove off a cliff from needing to be deconstructed.

I did succeed, for the record. Anyways.

[brisk urchin]

lol

[visual yarrow]

Once I have some more rails in place, and probably fix that missing radar coverage, I can see what caterium nodes will be the simplest to grab.

[brisk urchin]

this is what mine looked like on a multiplayer

[visual yarrow]

Wait, aren't there supposed to be something like 111 sloops in the world?

Or at least, a number between 110 and 119.

[visual yarrow]

That's... very strange.

OH.

[hoary oar]

they changed it with 1.0

[visual yarrow]

Okay, I know why now.

[hoary oar]

and also 3 of them are used in the MAM, so your total that you can use if you unlock everything is 103

[brisk urchin]

hehe, not in my world!

[visual yarrow]

I'm not entirely sure why accidentally loading the save in pre 1.0 created seven more sloops I had supposedly found.

Hrm. You know what would be a really useful feature for this map that would probably also be a pain in the ass to implement? Being able to check the precise altitude of terrain from the map itself.

You can at the very least go to that location physically, place something, and then check the altitude of that, but it's a bit of extra work.

Well, time to use my personal use train that is extremely well designed to head to the end of the line and then make the end of the line further away than it's current location.

...Okay, I did not copy paste the image when I thought I had.

There we go.

OPTIMAL

And, of course, the nice thing is that this isn't in the way of anything because I am so terrible at actually using the silly amount of railway I build.

[unique cypress]

You can skip the sloop scanning research and have 104 left

That one sloop gives you like 150 GW extra on a max power build, too

[hoary oar]

thats why i said if you unlock everything

[balmy sandal]

So I've decided to build my first ever nuclear power plant. Should I try and work this out myself or is there a good basics tutorial out there. because NGL I put 1 Plutonium full rod into SCIM and the resulting graph made me wanna cry (this is how I usually start learning a production process)

[hoary oar]

nuclear is definitely not an easy thing to get a grasp on
i would start by just doing uranium, forget about the waste, just get that sorted. see how much you wanna make, what it needs and all that
after that you can worry about plutonium, and then depending on if the plutonium effort is to much or to little you can scale the uranium up or down.
and if you want you can do the same thing with ficsonium

also i recommend using satisfactorytools over SCIM
only downside there is that you have to manually put in the uranium and plutonium waste if you want everything in 1 graph, but thats no big deal
its overall much easier to work with tho

[balmy sandal]

Well I've just about got Ficsonium unlocked Which is what made me turn my attention there (that and I'm just about at my power grid max)

[hoary oar]

and something really helpful to do is to put certain items as inputs, not just leaving every single production step in
this way its much more readable, and easier to get your head around, than if you see that you need 50 different production steps

[balmy sandal]

Yeah I put plutonium in and it says it cant calculate it. I'm assuming because it won't put in the power plants for the waste?

[hoary oar]

yeah, you need to put in the uranium waste as an input

like this

and you can use this for calculating exactly how much waste you're going to be producing

[balmy sandal]

Cool I'll mess around with that. I've got a vauge Idea of making an upside down pyramid and having max uranium ones on the top and filtering down to however many ficsonium at the bottom. to help my sanity I'm only really going to look at this one step at a time. I just wanted to see what I was getting into

[hoary oar]

ficsonium is gonna be limited by SAM, unfortunately you can't max uranium while also converting everything in to ficsonium
but you can sink plutonium rods, so can still use all the uranium that way

[balmy sandal]

Yeah some of the Plutonium rods are going to drones and some are getting sunk. I also am not like map maxing the uranium just maxing a single node (currently limited by MK5 belts)

[hoary oar]

there's no pure uranium nodes, so mk5 belts are plenty

[balmy sandal]

OH yeah! I forgot! Nice! also I just unlocked MK6 I forgot that was with the Fisconium. I probably need some sleep

[normal latch]

how come the satisfactory tools website says version 1.0

[brisk smelt]

why not

[unique cypress]

There's so little new stuff in 1.1 that it wasn't worth updating

It's missing the new buildables from the codex but that's it

[queen slate]

Could be 0.8 too, but some recipes were changed in 1.0, and there's also new stuff too.

[vapid gorge]

no recipe changes in 1.1

[visual yarrow]

To the untrained eye, this image may suggest that I have some semblance of an idea of what I am doing. But in fact, I have absolutely no fucking idea what I am doing.

I do know what I want to do. Whether or not this.... whatever it is, will bring me closer to that? That is still hard to say.

[visual yarrow]

How many digits of π would y'all recommend for precision when calculating circles ingame for the purpose of rails?

Also, when people talk about a quantity of the number of digits of π, do they include the 3? That isn't important. I'm just going to use 3.14159 because I sound like a crazy person right now.

Did you guys know that calculating the length of a curve is really fucking complicated???

distant sounds of manic laughter

Okay, the end result hasn't changed in the past fifteen digits, so I probably don't need to add any more

...Wait, I need to use 32 as the radius, since I need the centerpoint between two track lengths.

Alright... that's probably justifiable to round to 50m given the actual amount of precision needed, and also the fact that it's a pain to nudge things in increments that aren't multiples of 0.5m.

Okay I had the circle off by a foundation so we're working with this now. That's a quarter of the length, and i'm using... uhh... 9/16ths of a circle?

No, cause this is two quarters and and eighth... this is the simplest part of the math, why is it giving me the most trouble. 5/8ths?

So 157m for...

The length of track (calculated from the centerpoint of the two tracks) here...

That does not have the pillar perfectly in the middle but i'll just add some support beams to fix that.

OKAY IT TURNS OUT I NEEDED TO USE 9/16ths ANYWAYS BECAUSE OF THE DIRECTION OF THE TRACK AHAHAHAHAHA

Fittingly, this is now teardrop shaped.

For the sake of my sanity, I am going to round this to a final value of 300m of track. Now to find a vertical distance that gives me a whole divisor...

...while also having enough clearance to go under the original rail.

10m should be perfect. I think.

So that means... I can get the slope I need with a diagonal beam that's 30m across and 1m up.

[upbeat turtle]

what recipe is the best for dark matter crystals i need them for singularity cells

[visual yarrow]

It depends, but a combination of recipes is what i've heard works best.

Essentially... let me get a visual aid.

So because a time crystal is two diamonds, dark matter crystal and dark matter trap are identical in terms of how much of those they consume- you're adding the time crystal step in order to get more dark matter crystals out of your residue.

Dark matter crystallization is essentially the inverse: it frees up the need for a solid input, but you get half as many dark matter crystals from your residue as you would with the default.

So what you want to do is figure out how much dark matter residue you will be producing, and then either:

• use only dark matter trap and have an excess of dark matter crystals that you can just sink, or use for other things, at the cost of needing more time crystals
• figure out a ratio of recipes that produce exactly the amount of dark matter crystals you need

[upbeat turtle]

ohh ok i think i get it now thanks for the help

[visual yarrow]

As a side note, since singularity cells don't use the quantum encoder, you will need to either use the excess dark matter from a quantum encoder production chain, or use SAM to make residue. If you do make residue from SAM, I would recommend using dark matter trap, due to how costly it can be to make DMR from SAM.

Anyways, back to going insane. Actually, I wonder if I can blueprint the angle I need, since it would fit into a blueprint designer? That might actually be a really good idea.

All of that for this....

...and all of this can bloom into this.

[visual yarrow]

Does anyone know if the snapping that signals have when ctrl-placing them onto an existing length of track has any... consistent variables that can be used for clever track shenigans?

Such as splitting a bit of track in the precise center?

[spiral hornet]

in the satisfactory calculator website how do i change the intermedieat products to alternate recipes? For example i want to use cast screws

[vapid gorge]

turn off the basic screw recipe

[visual yarrow]

It's ultimately up to you, but i'd highly recommend using https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production instead.

[random creek]

I was hoping drones would be enough to transport 480 sulfur a minute from remote sulfur nodes. Boy was i wrong

Or at least the 3 drones i currently have isn't enough so i guess i need to make a dedicated platform with like 8 or something

[visual yarrow]

What are you using the sulfur for?

[visual yarrow]

Also, how are the drone's assigned ports... laid out? With three drones, that suggests you're using one dropoff port and two/three pickup ports?

[vapid gorge]

3 should be more than enough?

2 really aught to be enough be enough honestly

[visual yarrow]

Depends a lot on both the distance, and how the ports are laid out. If they're all trying to drop off at the same port, that could cause problems.

[vapid gorge]

2 ports from the other side of the map should be enough for 480 ppm

[visual yarrow]

Drone speed shouldn't affect that, right?

[vapid gorge]

#math-and-meta message

drone speed probably does
these graphs were done before drone speed though so we don't know if the top speed is normal speed or faster than when the graphs were made

[visual yarrow]

I am pretty sure that the "baseline" speed became the lowest speed, but either way. Sulfur is 100 stack size, so... uhh

I think it really depends on how the drones themselves are assigned.

[vapid gorge]

the left image is for single drone

and if base speed is slowest then you should be able to do more pm than the graphf

the graphs go to 15km but the map isn't that big even corner to corner

[visual yarrow]

Do you know how big it is, roughly?

[vapid gorge]

about 9km corner to corner

but that's an extreme distance the vast majority of people won't be doing

[visual yarrow]

Yeah, I think even in the most distant cases, this is going to be an issue with the drone's route assignment. Or something like a misplaced belt, or the usual.

[vapid gorge]

they generally aren't that wiggly

[visual yarrow]

I don't understand. What aren't... "wiggly"?

[vapid gorge]

the flight paths.

they go around terrain to it won't generally be a straight line, but I doubt it increases the flight distance much

[visual yarrow]

I still don't understand. I'm not talking about flight paths.

[vapid gorge]

oh what were you talking about then?

[visual yarrow]

Something I have a hard time putting into words, so bear with me for a moment.

So the most basic drone setup is two ports, one drone. Arguably, the second most basic is just adding a second drone to that second port.

But they mentioned they had three drones, which suggests that there are either three ports, two of which is a point to point transfer with two drones assigned to the same route, and the third of which is an extra drone delivering to the same destination, or some other configuration, like an empty dropoff port and three drone ports supplying to it.

I don't know if this has changed in 1.1's drone improvements since I haven't done this, but a setup like what I mentioned above would create possible delays while drones wait to dock.

[vapid gorge]

it should over flow though.
if it's 2 ports to 1 port with 3 drones it could be a bit awkward

depending on the distance

[visual yarrow]

'Cause with three drones, you end up with the potential case of two drones dropping off full cargo, and then the third not being able to fully unload.

Granted, that shouldn't happen, with full belt speed. But... well, honestly, the tl;dr is that we need more information.

[vapid gorge]

it should even out over time. But would really need more info on the set up

[visual yarrow]

I'm also sort of confused at what they meant by setting up eight ports, given that if they have three drones right now, that suggests three destinations... but that'd lead me to think aiming for six ports, to pair them up?

I'm overthinking this to a degree that is just plain silly, honestly.

[vapid gorge]

probably 🙂

[visual yarrow]

I do know that I have a single drone transporting 120 modular frames/m across the distance marked by the red line, without issue...

Oh, you know? I hadn't even considered this, but do drones that are landing at ports that are too close to tall structures still do that thing where they fly to a point very high above the port and descend?

If they do, that in particular can compound the issues that multiple drones servicing the same ports can experience.

[vapid gorge]

all I know is that their land and dtake off animation takes nearly a minute all up 🙂

[visual yarrow]

oh my god, this is just gross. the fact that it is technically an option makes me feel uncomfortable

Yeah, no. We are not doing this.

[still blade]

So I’m currently thinking of setting up a “mega” base (tho not rly it’s just items up to tier 6) and I have everything except for oil where I want to set it up. My question is why shouldn’t I use fluid trains? I feel like it’d be more comfortable to have the processing on-site and idk if I can rely on sending packaged oil rather than sending it raw on fluid train cars, but I also heard that fluid trains are bad

[vapid gorge]

fluid trains are fine. and it depends what you're doing and how you like things

for example, if you're doing the recycle loop, you get 3 pluber per oil, so it's technically expanding to transport later

but also it's a giant process that might just make it much easier to have at another location away from your big hub

[visual yarrow]

Yeaaah, i'm thinking i'll work with something like this...

[still blade]

Interesting. What im trying to do is produce the base most items a raw resource can make (iron into ingots, limestone into concrete, etc) so I might have two recycle loops for plastic and rubber

[visual yarrow]

Fluid trains aren't bad. The only time they're worse than regular trains is when deal with gases.

Some people just don't like using them.

[still blade]

That way, if I need to make a new production line in the hub, I can just go to, say, the copper ingot line and belt some of it to the new line

[visual yarrow]

How large of a scale are you aiming for?

[still blade]

Haven’t dealt with gases yet, what makes them worse than packaged?

[visual yarrow]

Just that they compress multiple units of gas into one canister.

[vapid gorge]

sure.
honestly all I do is dedicate 1 -2 normal nodes per basic items and squish it all together to go up the tiers

to hell with efficiency

[still blade]

I wanna automate on-site (nearly) every item up to tier 6

[visual yarrow]

So you can fit more packaged gases onto a wagon than unpackaged.

[visual yarrow]

Yeah, but what sort of scale? Are you aiming to be making tens of thousands of ingots?

[still blade]

As many as the Blue Crater can make, really. If I have to, I’ll either OC some of the miners or take from other nodes

[visual yarrow]

You may want to consider, in certain cases, transporting partially-processed parts that take up less room.

Like... here's an example I just happened to have open on my other monitor.

The best advice I can give for something like what you're planning is to consider stuff like the above when planning your trains.

Here's another really good example, that is currently causing me issues with my plans, lol.

That's... I believe, 75% more items produced than the input?

Well, okay, that's technically just the quartz.

[crimson moat]

Yeah, aim to transport the smallest steps in general. Some are 400%+ more output than input.

[visual yarrow]

(The problem in my case is that the other ingredients happen to be located next to the quartz already, and it's kind of an awkward place for train stations...)

The other issue is that I feel like I need to make 50% more nitric acid than I actually need, because otherwise the machine and input ratios are weird. Sigh.

Buuuut I could really use a bulk supply of both quartz crystals and silica. And thus I am now sitting here spending too much time making a train curve. Such is life.

[crimson moat]

just underclock those parts

or OC

to 5:20 or 10:20

[visual yarrow]

That's not quite what I mean.

It just hits that damn repeating 3 situation that makes my soul hurt.

[crimson moat]

yeah, underclock 6.667 to 10 and 3.333 to 4 or 5

[visual yarrow]

Oh, it's not the actual... uh, machine splitting that I have an issue with.

It's just those repeating numbers in general. They don't quite work 100% perfectly because of I think floating point errors? So I try to avoid them. It's really not a big issue at all, it just bothers me enough.

[crimson moat]

They do, and that stuff is all integer. Iron plate constructor makes 1 plate per 3 sec.

[visual yarrow]

But honestly I think I also ended up deciding that, because I had 1200 nitrogen gas left at this resource well anyways, there was an amount of sense to be made to just making the rest into acid anyways.

[crimson moat]

it is just more resources used and more trouble to package and sink it

[visual yarrow]

That is true, but my intent was to use it for something, not just sink it.

Most likely fused modular frames.

[crimson moat]

in that case, i would say that the future production would probably be more wonky than this one due to having an arbitrary quantity of premade acid added

[visual yarrow]

...Though exactly 100 acid would probably increase the wonk.

Nope, actually... This is 4 blenders at 104.175%

So that falls within the decimal place limit.

Granted, it does sort of create a chicken and egg situation with the aluminum wanting the silica from the quartz purification, and aluminum also being needed to sink nitric acid as a stopgap, buuut..

Eh, i'll figure something out, but later.

If anything, the issue is moreso that I actually probably want more fused modular frames than this, lol.

[crimson moat]

.

the whole decimal place thing isn't an issue though unless you want your machines to never idle for even 1 cycle

[visual yarrow]

I am that ridiculous.

But I should be more clear, and state that I was always intending to make fused modular frames with nitric acid anyways, so making the extra nitric acid was a logical plan for me that I hadn't fully... finished planning out?

I love heat fused frames, honstly.

...Which, in hindsight, is because it gave me a reason to make nitric acid pre-1.0 adding a bunch more, so maybe I just... like making nitric acid.

Yeah, I think I just like making acid and packaging it and then running it on belts where I can see my packaged acid and appreciate it.

Hell, I look for excuses to package alumina solution sometimes, purely because it has kind of a neat model you almost never see.

[wind spade]

Not because floating point errors, but clock speed has 4 decimals limit, so you can't clock a machine to 33.3333333333333...%, but only to e.g. 33.3334%

[visual yarrow]

Right. I remember we/I had this conversation a while back, I just managed to get the conclusion I was told backwards.

But thankfully I successfully accounted for that possibility by making that statement with a question mark. B)

[slate river]

these flow chars look better than satisfactory calculators what website is this

[visual yarrow]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[slate river]

Thank you!

[orchid brook]

anyone help me i have 4x 150 belts i wanna make it into 3 equal belts i only have MK3 belts

[deft lichen]

split 1 belt in 3, merge into each of the other 3

[wind spade]

personally I'd recommend either building machines in groups that use 150 each, or merging the previous machines so that each belt has the amount you need

[deft lichen]

yeah you may end up in situations where it's not this straightforward

[orchid brook]

i dont care about production rate so ya

just wanted to know if its like ezy if itsn not then ya just mainfold everything

[deft lichen]

manifolds are the solution in 95% of cases

[wind spade]

and clock speed in remaining 5%

[orchid brook]

lol

[slate river]

how many water pumps can fit 10 coal power plants

or like whats the math on coal power plants

I mainly want to know this because I kinda just threw this together without any knowledge on what to do

[vapid gorge]

Figure out how much each need and make

Don’t calculate by buildings

[deft lichen]

do you want to explain how to get the numbers yourself?

[slate river]

yes

[deft lichen]

interact with a pipe to see how much it can transport per min

same goes for the water extractor and coal generator, both list how much they produce and consume per minute

don't confuse this with the amount of fluid in the building, it explicitly says how much per minute it is

[slate river]

so thats where I went wrong

[deft lichen]

this applies to pretty much everything in the game

!wikisearch tutorial:production+line

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=tutorial:production+line

[slate river]

it only gets harder from here then huh

[deft lichen]

yes and no? it follows the same principles

see the diagram above (not your exact case but useful regardless)

[vapid gorge]

You just need basic maths.

Like grade 4 maths

[slate river]

OH I understand ther mining and stuuff perfectly

I just use that principal for water but its just a little bit more complicated?

[deft lichen]

and https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Coal-Powered_Generator#/media/File:Coal_Generator_Schematic.png solution to your coal generator problem, if you get tired of trying to solve it yourself

fluids are just like items, you just have less control over where they go

belts have splitters and mergers and go in one direction, pipes allow flow both ways

[slate river]

ah right

Thanks

[frigid maple]

Im building an oil power plant and i sill didnt use mk2 pipes

Why do people use them?

300/min is plenty

[wind spade]

people use them when they need to get 600/min out of oil node

[fallow siren]

i just use fastest belt/pipe when i unlock them

avoid silly mistake by having lower belt tier in your production

[crimson moat]

Junctions split basically 50/50.

in this case though just make a group of extractors for every pipe that you want, merge those to make that 1 pipe, don't merge between groups.

[vapid gorge]

doing merge splits can be wonky. I'd just pipe it in 300 groups

you're having to do 2 pipes anyway

[normal latch]

has anyone made a hyper efficient factory? like perfect underclocking for power efficiency, using 100% of resource nodes on map, etc?

[unique cypress]

using 100% of the map's resources without deliberately wasting them is basically impossible

no computer would be able to handle that

especially because max efficiency would also include max power efficiency, which means every machine at 1% clock speed

[frigid maple]

I also want to but im yet to make a real encased industrial beams

So i dont use mk4 belts

.. and also i didnt reach the point of needing 480/min

[fallow siren]

i made 20/min of encased beam in phase 2 so i have enough to spam in phase 3

[agile junco]

Well I have no idea how I'm going to do it yet, but here's the BOM:

[ripe wing]

what alts besides steel screws i could use here?

for fused modular frame

[unique cypress]

steel screws is one of the alts I would definitely not use here

[ripe wing]

why

i would need 25 constructors otherwise

for screws

[unique cypress]

using screws to make frames, at any stage, is expensive

do not use any screws

[ripe wing]

so i should use an alt to not use screws

[unique cypress]

I'd do something like this
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=h6zzsPLsUMXnWVd2cC2V

[ripe wing]

ok i actually have most alts

i dont have wet concrete

and i dont have pure iron ingot

[orchid brook]

well why the hell did noone tell me i can have 72 THOUSAND MW with only 300 oil

i thought fule sucked

[unique cypress]

why?

[orchid brook]

like i watched the game most of the time and all of the YTers i watched used nucleur and skipped fuel like made a small plant to power there bigger plant but now i have the game and dude omg idid some math and its insain

[unique cypress]

insane behaviour from the YTrs tbh

even before 1.0, fuel was good

1.0 cranked it to 11

not only the generators were buffed, but rocket fuel was added too

[orchid brook]

i mostly watch kibitz and he makes a turbofule plant in every single world he made and then straight to nuclers

even in his 1.0 world

[unique cypress]

that's insane behaviour too lmao. turbofuel is far from the best choice

[fallow siren]

rocket fuel is insanely cheap for massive boost of power

[orchid brook]

and tbh i think i am just make a but crap ton of rocket fuel and skip nuclier

[orchid brook]

ik

[random creek]

2 per. but i had 3 units of 480. and only 3 drones. so i expanded to 6 drones total with a fuel drone

"how much iron do you want?"
"Yes"

eventually this will make 20k once i unlock mk6 belts

[indigo sinew]

will 60gw get me through a playthrough?

[unique cypress]

Impossible to say

[indigo sinew]

on average?

[vapid gorge]

is 'a playthrough' just finishing phase 5? then yes, yo ucan do it easily.

will it suit whatever sandbox playing you want afterwards? ... probably not?

[indigo sinew]

just the 5 stages if I decide to keep it as a sandbox I will prob built a solid nuclear plant

[orchid brook]

ok here me out is it a bad idea to use most if not all the sulpher in the wolrd for rocket fule and just skipping nuclear

it is

that alone needs a power plant

[unique cypress]

It is absolutely possible to complete the game on 60 GW. Will you? No clue. I definitely would run out

[unique cypress]

Just do nuclear at this point

[indigo sinew]

I have high hopes, I tend to have low power setups

[orchid brook]

i am too stupid if a meltdown happens

[indigo sinew]

I am just gonna do 60gw from fuel generators

It has a very simple recipe

[grizzled grove]

So train’s get kinda large you know

44 length train

[still blade]

so im down to the 2 last depot upgrades, and idk whether to pick stack size or upload speed

[unique cypress]

Reactors in this game do not melt down

[orchid brook]

like if something goes wrong i aint that good at troubleshooting

especialy at something this complex

[unique cypress]

Ew no not SCIM production planner

[indigo sinew]

I like it

[brisk smelt]

lasso the pipes and fill them and try again or stop the first ones for a while

[balmy sandal]

one sec I have an idea just gotta draw it out

First are any of your coal gens overclocked?

okay math-wise you want three water extractors for every four power plants all 100% (some people use 1 WE for two instead and underclock to 75% I think) Pipe wise you want to run one pipe for every three extractors then connect it to the coal gens. This is a diagram of how I pipe them up. Also I find it helpful to first pipe the water higher than the gens (even a few meters is good) As it will fill the bottom stuff first.

[swift rose]

How wonky would y'all say are the fluid physics still? Like if I have an Mk.2 pump on a pipe and have it ascending only very slowly does it still give 50m headlift? Or if I place it on a horizontal pipe and only have the vertical section start about 100m after the pump

[oblique hollow]

pump is still reliable

the head lift part was always the most "trustable" part.
just stay within safe limits

dont try to squeeze out those extra 5m safety net from pumps

[swift rose]

Ah

Which parts about pipes were the not so reliable ones?

[oblique hollow]

head lift still gets applied after a 100m horizontal pipe just fine.
the most unreliable part happens near the flow rate limits of mk 2 pipes for a bunch of reasons. Both when trying to merge machines into a full mk2 and when splitting it up
you are always best off using mk 1 pipes for anything up to 300/min

and for mk 2, having two mk 1 pipes merge into a mk 2 or splitting a mk 2 into two mks 1 pipes is the most reliable way to work with it.

[swift rose]

Aight, because I'm making a 41GW fuel and turbofuel hybrid powerplant so I'd like to avoid as many potential flow issues as I can during the building stage

[oblique hollow]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/68b22be2dbe2e46a549b0664
this post describes the issue somewhat

[swift rose]

And I've steered completely away from Mk.2 pipes in the entire superstructure

[oblique hollow]

ive only started trusting mk 2 at max flow again fully after having used them with tweaked gravity and density

technically right now anyone could turn on cheats and use console commands to emulate that

[swift rose]

Aight, thanks then

[jaunty dust]

All of phase 5 in the modeler 😄

[crimson moat]

no

[crimson moat]

I'm fairly confident that they can handle it with a partcount optimised build and e.g. overclocking.

At 1% clock, most likely there are unworkable game stability and performance problems because you need up to 250x as many machines and supporting parts such as power lines and belts which makes it a few magnitudes more CPU/RAM intensive.

I'm starting to think that finishing my build with 32GB of RAM could be difficult 😛

but the framerate remains quite solid

It's in dire need of something like a modded 32x32 meter foundation, because the game does not like it when you place 1 million (literally) foundations to build those kinds of factories on. Having 16-64x larger foundations would be much easier computationally and for memory footprint/access

if there's a mod for that already, dm me

[hoary oar]

if you wanna use all resources + be as power efficient as possible you would be having to place multiple millions of machines.
the game/engine will fall apart long long before you reach that

[crimson moat]

My resource-limited world plan uses 17,227 machines at 100% clock.

so yes, 1.7 million machines at 1% clock, but it's the 1% clock part which makes it insane

not the resource amount

you can spend all resources and still have 120fps before framegen

[unique cypress]

How many machines does max sink points use?

[supple gazelle]

Even the 100% clock rate plan (with 27,526 machines) is beyond what my computer can handle, or more specifically building half of it lowers my frame rate too much to where I need to compromise visual quality to continue having fun

1% is 2,893,776 machines, 250% is 12,111 machines.

[toxic current]

any tips before i start my 1 tw nuclear plant?

[unique cypress]

Build the reactors over an ocean and put the extractors right next to or underneath the reactors

[supple gazelle]

helps if you do the uranium part then let it run so when you finish plutonium you have plenty of waste to feed into it.

[toxic current]

this one is a troll yea?

[unique cypress]

I'd say the opposite lol

Don't turn on the uranium until you can deal with the waste

[toxic current]

why? if im building over the ocean how am i extracting the uranium?

[supple gazelle]

really? Why’s that? It gets produced really slowly, so seeing any build issues can take a long time, and not time you generally wanna spend sitting watching a radioactive belt

[unique cypress]

How are you getting the 96000 water if you don't?

[toxic current]

oh yea

[unique cypress]

Uranium is one train/a few drones away

[crimson moat]

It depends heavily on HOW you build. You can build the same machine plan and have it run at 20 or 200fps depending on where exactly the machines are located. Most of the CPU load is proximity based, not simulation.

[toxic current]

ok

[toxic current]

i think u underestmate how many wastes i have with 1 tw

[unique cypress]

2000 waste/min is not "very slowly"

[supple gazelle]

There is a a significant framerate difference between my phase 5 finish save (50-60fps) and my half-map utilization save (35-45fps)

[toxic current]

i did wanna use fixinium and plutonuim but i dont wanna

[supple gazelle]

No matter where I am on the map

[toxic current]

extra work when i can just use uranium

[unique cypress]

Uhh doing just uranium will require storing 4000 waste/min

[supple gazelle]

actually, you’re right. I’ve met a lot of resistance here lately, it’s best I go. Hope your nuclear plant goes well.

[crimson moat]

I can have 200fps in this world standing at the machines but not looking at them, or 300 standing at the side of the world (before framegen). There's around 4000 machines and 1500km of belt/pipes/powerlines

[unique cypress]

That's 1 ISC every 6 minutes of runtime

[toxic current]

well im gonna turn it into the thing then sink it

[unique cypress]

"the thing" is plutonium

[toxic current]

either way i dont wanna use converters so im not gonna do this anyway

sf tools says i need to use ALL the bauxite in my world, and im good

[unique cypress]

You can't get 1 TW from just Uranium without converters

630 GW is the max from 2100 uranium
Which is what can be found on the map

[toxic current]

perfect

630 gw it is

[unique cypress]

If you're sinking Plutonium, make sure you don't make any more than absolutely necessary

[toxic current]

y

[unique cypress]

Because that's just gonna be a waste of resources

[toxic current]

ok

the max uranium is 2100 yea?

[crimson moat]

ye

[toxic current]

lmao thats like 20 fuel rods a min

@unique cypress u lier

[crimson moat]

I'd recommend building larger so that your plant is capable of processing radioactive materials faster than they can come in

[crimson moat]

It's 51.4

you're using multiple wrong recipies

[toxic current]

oh?

[fallow siren]

are you using fused uranium cell alt?

[toxic current]

idk

[crimson moat]

50.4, sorry

[unique cypress]

It's 50.4, actually

[crimson moat]

beat ya 😄

[toxic current]

i was gonna do 50

[unique cypress]

Mine's first on my screen

[toxic current]

what alts do yall recomend?

[toxic current]

no its not aeryn won

[crimson moat]

we must have been very close 😄 get outpinged

[fallow siren]

@toxic current

[toxic current]

ty

thats it?

i mean any other alts

[unique cypress]

Basically all of them. Except the one's for Plutonium stuff, because those make more rods

[toxic current]

just to use less stuff

[unique cypress]

Just use SFTools and enable all of them

Just disable SAM

[toxic current]

does it only use the best ones?

[unique cypress]

The most resource efficient

[crimson moat]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=lVPK0E6Z2V5rFJJ4HD1k

[toxic current]

?

dw i made it myself

[unique cypress]

Wouldn't consider that "the" best but it's never the worst

[toxic current]

oh this one has plutoium

wait its using 19 smelters idk if i can do this

[crimson moat]

for processing the waste yes

[toxic current]

AND 19 FOUNDRYS? damn this is impossible

[unique cypress]

Wrong. It's 12.6 plut rods for the minimum

[toxic current]

i was uh gonna do 50 uranium rods

[crimson moat]

I thought it would fail to make the plan if i put more than could be made with the inputted waste

[unique cypress]

No, it just used instant plut cell

[crimson moat]

my plans are based around 64/63 overprovisioning so that they can deal with any waste or radioactive material buildup, so i have the uranium for 12.6 but the machines for 12.8

[crimson moat]

good catch 😄

[unique cypress]

I always search for "nium" and untick the 3 waste processing alts

[toxic current]

my specialty is oil idk if i can do ts

[crimson moat]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=lZzE8ooxp8GOZUjmto5b fixed

[unique cypress]

Also, when I looked at this and saw 3000 screws/min, I audibly went "ew" but then saw the 10000 quickwire 😂

[toxic current]

i enjoy making quick wire i lowkey like that

[crimson moat]

Yeah i've already built those parts 😛

[unique cypress]

They must've changed some recipes in 1.0, because last time I built that, I needed 14000

[toxic current]

litterly not possible

[crimson moat]

another cursed part (but of ficsonium)

[toxic current]

i would have a heart attack

[unique cypress]

@toxic current I would not use the plan Aeryn sent without modifications. SFTools does some weird shit sometimes to save resources. Like this:

[toxic current]

dw i wasnt gonna

[unique cypress]

Like I would not want to deal with 3 different sources of silica

[toxic current]

not cuz of Aeryn just cuz i wasnt gonna do ts for a while

[crimson moat]

Yeah i dropped quartz purification

because i had spare quartz and not going for 100% efficiency of 100% of resources

just a baseline, you need to take a long time to research and try alternate options etc with the whole context of your world in mind

[toxic current]

i AM gonna automate nuke nobelisks tho

[unique cypress]

Man I love notches on phones. This screenshot has a fkn black bar on the left

[toxic current]

lol

[tranquil phoenix]

any know off the top of their head what the max clock speed water burn rate is for ficsonuim fuel rod before i build this plant and place these pipes

[crimson moat]

600/min, it's a stat of the NPP rather than the rod. Different fuels just have different burn times

[tranquil phoenix]

alright thank you

[toxic current]

shes lying its 1200

nvm

[tranquil phoenix]

about to say XD

[toxic current]

man i was thinking about using geysers, but its not static power, and you wouldent be able to tell if your actual plant was broken cuz its diffrent all the time, and you could only ever rely on the lowest number it can make, stupid idea, who uses those

[tranquil phoenix]

water pump to the right of me water pumps to the left of me here stuck in on this plant alone

[toxic current]

im sorry 😭

[tranquil phoenix]

idk how much power im gonna be gettin i dont need it i only consume like 88k max at times

[unique cypress]

It's 600/min for all rods

[toxic current]

600 mw?

[tranquil phoenix]

no water usage

[toxic current]

oh wait nvm

[tranquil phoenix]

i had planed to put 3 water pumps to a reactor for fully over clock but the pipes wont allow it even mk2 id need mk3

[unique cypress]

And it's only 7 GW average if you use all geysers

[unique cypress]

Mk2 can fit 600 water just fine?

[tranquil phoenix]

iut wouldve been 900 with 3 water pumps

[unique cypress]

1 reactor only pulls 600?

Why would you connect 900 to it

[tranquil phoenix]

yeah max for all like the said no matter the fuel rod

[tranquil phoenix]

to make sure it wouldnt dry up and stutter

[unique cypress]

It pulls 600. Connect 600 and it'll run fine

As long as you don't do stupid shit with the pipes, that is

[crimson moat]

no junctions 😛

[tranquil phoenix]

yeah mk2 should be fine id likke m3 but dont wanna go get a mod for it

[unique cypress]

Back when reactors pulled 300 water at 100% instead of 240, I had 5 extractors to 2 reactors and everything ran fine just fine

[crimson moat]

there are configurations with junctions that work fine, it's just that many (most?) don't.

[unique cypress]

I had 200+ 600/min pipes and all worked perfectly

[unique cypress]

Idk, I just did whatever back then

[crimson moat]

basically every way that you can break pipes involves junctions being used in a way that they don't tolerate

[unique cypress]

If it randomly worked without me knowing anything about pipes, it can't be that hard, can it?

[crimson moat]

you would be surprised 😄 with the amount of people who post broken setups that i would never think to make

[unique cypress]

Back then I thought that if a system that needed to handle 3200/min combined didn't work, it meant it needed more interconnecting pipes to balance out the flow

I don't remember if I ever managed to get it to work at 100%

[hoary oar]

as long as the pipes are relatively short and don't have a million junctions you can do more or less do whatever you want

[crimson moat]

in general yes, but not with mk.2 at 600/600 flow

[hoary oar]

i've gotten plenty of full mk2 pipes working just fine over my playtime

[crimson moat]

and there are plenty of ways to break them, even with 1 bad junction

[hoary oar]

and the only time i see issues is when there's more than a handful of junctions

[crimson moat]

whereas if you don't have a junction on the pipe, it's almost impossible to break

[unique cypress]

The only situations in which I have not managed to get 600 flow was on pipes with more than 10 junctions on the production side

[crimson moat]

If you make an end-input manifold it breaks at the first junction, even without triggering any of the junction bugs that are definitely bugs

[hoary oar]

funny you say that, my most annoying issue so far has been in my swamp, where i used to have 12 extractors filling 12 300 pipes, feeding 12 refineries at 300/min each
no junctions anywhere in the line, no other material issues.
yet somehow they still had issues, lol

[unique cypress]

And yet I have a 600/min oil manifold that is being fed at one end

[crimson moat]

you probably either used multiple sequential valves or ran out of headlift

[hoary oar]

zero valves
only like 20m headlift required, had a mk2 pump

the system is as simple as a pipe system can get, literally point A to point B with 1 pump

[unique cypress]

With 600/min pipes, it's the production side that's the problem

Or at least it has always been for me

[hoary oar]

its now fixed by just using mk2 instead of mk1, but legit no clue what the actual reason behind it was

[crimson moat]

I've many test setups where the production side is fine (with certain distribution it works 100% of the time) but with other distribution, like an end fed manifold, it throttles well below 600/600. One even goes below 500/600 on average.

you may be building in a way which adds complexity but might mitigate some of the junction jankiness.

[unique cypress]

I just do a top feed on the consumption side and it always works fine as long as it's oil or water (i.e. few production machines)

[crimson moat]

yeah, that can work better than a regular manifold

so can using mk.1 for smaller outflows

and junctions which split more unevenly break harder, e.g. splitting 7.5 (turbofuel @ 100%) off of a 600 line will break it at the first junction. It tries to split 300 each way, sloshes and interrupts the main line.

If a machine takes much more, say 100, then the split is less uneven and broken

[unique cypress]

I should test like a hundred generators (underclocked) on one fuel line and see if it works

[crimson moat]

the point is that there is a whole rulebook and several bugs that you have to navigate to employ junctions effectively, most of which most people do without understanding what they're doing, which just doesn't exist if you don't use them.

[unique cypress]

I would have to mod in a 600/min fuel source tho

[crimson moat]

It does not, not with liquid at least. 80 gens is getting 450-500 out of 600 flow with a typical setup, and never over 500 on anything that i tried

[unique cypress]

Level with the gens probably not, but if top feed with 20 works fine, why wouldn't it work with 100

[crimson moat]

The stock game fluid simulation actually injects phantom energy via dynamic pressure which amplifies sloshing and maintains it indefinitely even in a closed system

[crimson moat]

I tried top fed and it didn't work on 80, that's why i don't consider it an easy fix

just a potential mitigation

because it does indeed seem to improve the flow if you use horizontal junctions which are above the recieving machines

vertical junctions are broken, and the way that they are broken changes when you rotate them 90 degrees, so that's 1 more thing on the list that you have to keep in mind and do correctly for the proper behavior.

The behavior of the system is also sensitive to pipe sizes, e.g. a 5m3 pipe (or two 5m3 pipes end-to-end) can behave better than a 10m3 pipe.

So stuff as simple as how far your fuel generator is from the manifold line has profound impacts on how well the junctions behave.

[hoary oar]

im so glad rocketfuel is a gas and has to deal with a lot less of the weird fluid mechanics

[vapid gorge]

the only thing thats different is not needing pumps. Which is a non issue.

[crimson moat]

Gasses have very different properties. One example of that is that the vertical junction bug doesn't apply to them at all because they don't consider height in their simulation, so it doesn't matter that the height is calculated wrongly for some of the connections.

[hoary oar]

they also interact very differently with buffers

[proper dragon]

I saw somewhere that we can make blueprints auto connect their belts and such, how do I do that?

[vapid gorge]

if you mean 'in a disastrous fashion', then yes. But you shouldn't be using those with liquids either in systems

[vapid gorge]

I believe it's a build mode

[hoary oar]

buffers have their uses with liquids. most of the time you don't want them but there are some edge cases

gasses you pretty much never want them

[vapid gorge]

with train stations. That's it. Everything else is an unreliable solution

[proper dragon]

THANKS!:DDDDD

[hoary oar]

i've used buffers at the end of a manifold with liquids and it made it stable

again, its not always the soloution, but in some cases it is

[tranquil phoenix]

the fact i crashed 3 times trying to build this is some how only midly annoying at this point to me

41 reactors

fuck me why cant life line up for me and give me even number of things

[vapid gorge]

hence 'an unreliable solution'

there are very reliable alternatives

[frigid maple]

Woke up at 6:45 am since its first day of school
I lowkey learnt more from minecraft then from school

[plucky tusk]

Just plan for even numbers lol

[frosty owl]

I suddenly notice I've been using almost always horizontal junctions (and rarely having piping issues)
Bottom-feeder here ✋

[plucky tusk]

Daily pipe appreciation post

[toxic current]

how much better is ionized fuel vs rocket fuel

[wind spade]

that depends what do you mean by "better"

[toxic current]

overall

[wind spade]

impossible to answer

[toxic current]

which one is faster

[wind spade]

I'm a bit confused what do you mean by faster

[toxic current]

sorry i mean in jetpack

like speed ascending

[wind spade]

ah, see https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Jetpack#Fuel

[toxic current]

ok so its better

[wind spade]

well, depends on how you look at it

[toxic current]

all the problems i have with rocket are fixed with ionized

perfect, idc its more expensive

i didnt like how fast it was tbh, harder to build with, and it lasted just a little to short

[fallow siren]

if you want to build with jetpack, use liquid biofuel

[wind spade]

or use whatever fuel you want, because each has its own advantages 😉

[toxic current]

not automatable, even if it was i wouldn't cuz I like to build from up high most of the time

[fallow siren]

why not just hoverpack at that point

[toxic current]

no electricity

thats what i dont get abt hover pack, im building a factory, and its not connected to power, how would I be packing?

[river night]

well you do kinda need to build for the hoverpack, bring power to the place first, even if temporary

[brisk urchin]

i always finish the first refinig step, including hooking it up to power and leting it overfill

then i go to the next step

[robust fiber]

so im cofusend now, this is the plan right....how much power do i get cause my math aint mathing rn

[brisk urchin]

about 80GW i guess

bc my 700 gens used up 3000 and i got 170GW

[robust fiber]

ooookkkkkkkk so how the hell a guy in a video with the same amount of mine squeezed out 432 GW??

by the guy i mean totalxclipse

im not dreaming right

cause it doesnt amke any sense

[crimson moat]

the same amount of what?

you're using the really inefficient (but simple) rocket fuel recipe

for 108 GW

[robust fiber]

yes i musing the simple, y is inefficient??

[robust fiber]

same amount of rocket fuel

[crimson moat]

he didn't get 427 GW from 1800 rocket fuel

[robust fiber]

so he got more rocket fuel than that

[crimson moat]

7875 rocket fuel for that much power

without power augments

[robust fiber]

WHERE DI HE GET THE AMOUNT OF SULFUR FOR THAT HAHAHA

[crimson moat]

it doesn't really take that much sulfur if you use the most efficient recipies

[robust fiber]

aight....back to the boarding plan

[crimson moat]

for 7875 rocket fuel on most efficient recipies

there's 2400 sulfur near the blue crater

more than enough of everything except nitrogen

[robust fiber]

y the amount are the same??

i think is bugged i dont get it

[crimson moat]

you're using the wrong recipies

[robust fiber]

oooh

[crimson moat]

the max resource efficiency way is

HOR into Coke, Diluted Fuel and Turbo Blend Fuel

Nitric Acid

Rocket Fuel blender for output, byproduct compact coal going to Turbofuel recipe to reduce the amount of Turbo Blend Fuel that you need to make.

actually there is only 2550 oil at blue crater so not enough for that much 😄

[robust fiber]

yeah yeah i just figured that hahaha

ty tho

[tough viper]

this bumb is very concerning, is there any better way than this system with the buffer feeding quickwire into the system when the main belt isn't full or is this an error i cannot avoid when working with full belts?

[oblique hollow]

Its specifically mk 6 now that is... sometimes questionable apparently. Depends on PC performance ive heard

Best way to avoid that is to not go near the limit of course

[tough viper]

yea but sometimes it's not avoidable

ah yea great

[frosty owl]

Seems legit

[brisk urchin]

excuse me wht?

no coal?

[crimson moat]

turbo blend fuel uses coke instead

which is oil

[brisk urchin]

ah, so wasting oil on diffrent resorces

i preferr to keeping the oil for only the fuel

and not coke or diffrent stuff

[crimson moat]

good luck spending 12,600 oil on fuel

[brisk urchin]

nice

[eager dragon]

Need some Uranium, those are rookie numbers.

[brisk urchin]

technicaly i will always convert oil to fuel

because of the recycled recepies

[still blade]

should i get the copper alloy alt? i already have the iron alloy and pure copper alts, so idk if its worth it

and is the versitile frame alt good compared to the default?

[deft lichen]

Copper alloy and iron alloy pair well together

[vapid gorge]

yeah the alloys are a great combo and it's really so nice being able to build 1 foundry vs 3 refineries for about the same number of ingots

[still blade]

understood, and what about the versitile frame alt?

[vapid gorge]

its like many alts in the game

adds an oil product to pad out the resources used in other ways

so you use significantly less steel in exchange for rubber.
Which adds complexity

really depends on your situation if you think that's a good trade.

probably 24 steel ingots are saved for about 3 oil per cycle (if you use teh recycled loop)

[wind spade]

well, depends if you want it or not 🤷
you can get all recipes anyway and very often the "good-ness" of a recipe depends on specific player situation

[tough viper]

It's really useful for the early and midgame but later on you will pretty much always need the pure recipes, especially when dealing with copper

[vapid gorge]

why? there's lots on the map and alloy does a ton of work.

'always want to do X' is pretty much always wrong in this game

honestly I'd rather ship in a bit more copper than slap down 1000 refineries

[spiral hornet]

My current factory design are taking in raw resources and constructing a set of specific end products and I never "steal" from that factory, they are onyl fed into dimensional depots. For example one of my factories make these end products, but now I am starting to automate phase 4 components and things are getting too complicated. Is it worth switching to one component dedicated factories that produce one product en mass? For example a factory produceing like 1k steel beams I distribute to other factories?

[spiral hornet]

that particular factory looks like this. Recivieng 4 raw belts of materials.

[agile junco]

@deft lichen

This is why the screenshot isn't great alone.

[thorn bane]

can do that
or make everything in 1 place

[agile junco]

I may make sub graphs with the same numbers.

But things get pretty tangled near the end.

[orchid brook]

i just wanna know if i am doin something wrong so how much times did it take u guys to finish phase 2 in ur first world and then i will say my number

[deft lichen]

there was no phase 2 when I started playing

[orchid brook]

dang lol

[wind spade]

my first world... is fun 😄

[orchid brook]

ik in general how long does it take to do phase 2

[wind spade]

depends on player, build style, etc. also "faster" isn't necessarily better

[orchid brook]

like it took me alomst 16h to finish it

[orchid brook]

and also how is fuel that simple

[normal latch]

i got the legs enhancement, i move FAST lol

[bright valley]

The old wiki had a section to compare recipes for each item in terms of resources, space, power, etc. this never made it to the new (and overall better) wiki, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of an equivalent that is up to date, those tables are very useful

[unique cypress]

just use SFTools instead

the values were pulled from there anyway

and Tools gives you way more info

[bright valley]

How do I find the info there? I don't want the calculator part, since my goal for every build is gonna be different; and the item page doesn't compare the recipes, it just lists them, i.e. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/codex/items/steel-pipe

[unique cypress]

it's not in the codex. the info was pulled from the calculator

[bright valley]

dang. so you don't know of any way to visually access it?

[unique cypress]

the calculator gives you all the information the table would've and more if you just enable all recipes and ask for that specific item

then just click through different recipes to compare them

[bright valley]

like deselect all, then select one at a time, go over each tab and mark down the info, then change selection to the next one and repeat?

[unique cypress]

those numbers were given with all recipes enabled

[bright valley]

ah, I'm probably missing something on the page then. when I select all recipes, it only shows the info for one (it auto-selects), I think I checked all the tabs both horizontal and vertical...where does it show them together?

[wind spade]

yeah, but that section was very misleading and not useful

as for what KYO means - you have to make e.g. multiple tabs with different recipe combinations that you want to compare, and compare the tabs between each other

[unique cypress]

the numbers were given with all recipes enabled except the recipes for the item in question, for which only one recipe was enabled (and the table contained these values for all recipes for that item)

for the ingredients for that final item, all recipes were enabled

(with any exceptions to that noted below the table)

[bright valley]

got it. wish that could be done programmatically, but I can't just volunteer someone to do that

[wind spade]

the problem is that there's almost infinite combinations to compare

so you need to choose reasonably which ones you want to compare

[unique cypress]

the tables didn't even compare recipe combinations. it always used the same recipes for the ingredients

[wind spade]

otherwise the comparison table would be HUGE

[wind spade]

yeah, which was very much misleading (e.g. anything that used wire had inflated building counts due to iron wire, also didn't show needing copper)

[bright valley]

big table of numbers sounds appealing :)
does sftools give info on why it selected a recipe from the list you enabled? like "this has lower resources" or "less manufacturers needed here" or "conserving caterium" etc? if I could view, or better yet change, that logic, that'd be amazing

[unique cypress]

it optimizes for lowest WP

and WP is sum(amount of resource used/amount of resource available) over all resources

[bright valley]

yeah, makes sense, WP is a good metric, just not always or even usually my goal

[wind spade]

it doesn't really select specific recipes, it optimises the entire production towards lowest resource usage (based on weighted resource values, yeah)

I don't claim that it's the metric that everyone should use, but it needs to optimise for something and this was a decent compromise to produce relatively reasonable production lines

[unique cypress]

@frosty owl this is what I was talking about

seems to work fine

won't work for a train loading/unloading, but seems fine for the inside of the factory

[deft lichen]

I...forgot vertical splitters are a thing

[frosty owl]

Manifold + balancer, pretty much?

[frosty owl]

Feel old yet?

[unique cypress]

It's all manifolds but I built a "balancer" out of them

it's not input or output balanced but otherwise fulfills all requirements for a balancer

[deft lichen]

buut I'm having a blast running around getting mercer spheres
already got lost and died in two separate caves trying to get a somersloop

[frosty owl]

Caves have become really pleasant to both find and explore

[deft lichen]

I also seem to have overcome my fear of

easiest biofuel of my life

[unique cypress]

it kinda sucks to build tho

the vertical splitters are janky af

especially rotations

[tiny leaf]

anyone have a 6 to 11 balancer?

5 1200 belts and 1 600 belt to 11 600 belts

[unique cypress]

do they have to be equal?

[unique cypress]

because if the belts have the ability to fill up, you could just do this

[tiny leaf]

not really i just need 5 600 belts and 1 300 belt the rest go to storage

its for a rubber/plastic loop

im lying

6 600 belts and 1 300 belt

[frosty owl]

Why not just split them as needed?
Eg: 1200 belt = 2 x 600 belts

[tiny leaf]

because the plastic is fueled starting with residual rubber from polymer resin
that plastic needs to be split evenly in the system to kick start everything

[unique cypress]

I would not recommend doing it that way in the first place

did that once, and it was awful

it's best to have separate loops, and only balance the overflow from those (i.e. the actual, usable output)

[tiny leaf]

wdym by separate loops?

like how would that look

[unique cypress]

this one assumes mk6 belts available, but you can tweak the numbers down for lower tier belts

[tiny leaf]

ah okay

issue is i dont have an even split for my plastic/rubber

[unique cypress]

and ofc the plastic/rubber ratio can be tweaked as well

[frosty owl]

A simple approach would be dividing the production in blocks, so that you feed Plubber to the first "block", then that feeds the second, which feeds the third and so on

[unique cypress]

then you repeat the setup as many times as you need to achieve desired output

[unique cypress]

in this case, the setups would (maybe) share the oil supply and then you could merge/balance their outputs

[tiny leaf]

okay so if i understand this correctly
you merge residual with recycled rubber
then split that into recycled plastic then the output from recycled plastic you split back into rubber?

[unique cypress]

in case you're not familiar with modeler, the splitters and mergers are priority mergers/splitters, and the top connection has higher priority

so you merger rubber from both sources, prioritizing residual rubber

[tiny leaf]

ah sorry yeah wasnt familiar

[unique cypress]

and then you use a priority splitter to prioritize sending the all the rubber to recycled plastic, and overflow to output

[frosty owl]

The "lines" visualization is one of the worst for sharing 😅

[unique cypress]

repeat the same with plastic being sent to recycled dubber first, to output later

[tiny leaf]

ah okay makes sense thanks

and one more thing
why doesnt it work sending residual rubber -> plastic then balancing that into rubber and having them sustain each other?

[unique cypress]

residual rubber doesn't make enough to supply plastic

from experience, this setup guarantees proper operation at any output ratio and utilisation

swapping the order of the prio splitter and the prio merger on the rubber line might work, and it'd allow the setup produce more output before exceeding the belt limit, but I haven't tested whether that can deadlock at low utilization

[tiny leaf]

even if i have refineries set up as blocks (my blocks are manifolds of 20 refineries ie 600/min rubber/plastic and 600/min fuel)?
my plan was to use residual rubber rubber to fill 1.5 blocks (900 rubber-> 1800plastic)
then use that plastic in a balancer to fuel the rubber to start more plastic blocks etc etc

[unique cypress]

the point of doing split setups is that you don't interconnect them at all other than possibly the overflowed output and the oil supply

[tiny leaf]

i made the mistake to just connect the blocks directly where 1 block fuels 2 and it worked pretty well surprisingly but i knew it would cause problems eventually

[tiny leaf]

yeah that does make sense

ill try something with smart splitters and balancers

[unique cypress]

like this

[tiny leaf]

that would work

but its too late for me unfortunately

the systems already made

im just going to have to make it work

[unique cypress]

.

[unique cypress]

^ you can use this with smart splitters/mergers to prioritise certain inputs/outputs

[tiny leaf]

yeah thanks ill try it

[unique cypress]

prioritisation won't really work with a proper balancer, at least of the size you need, because it has multiple stages. I tried, it only works well with 2-stage ones, so up to 3 inputs/outputs

but with this manifold monstrosity, it should work, because it's only 2 stages

Oh, and also, @tiny leaf, you might wanna rotate it 90°, so the splitter manifolds are horizontal instead of vertical. It'll make setting smart splitters easier. it's not clear which one is left/right when they're vertical

and you probably don't need priority mergers, so it shouldn't be an issue to build them vertically

[tiny leaf]

gonna try this and see if it works

if it doesnt ill change it but yeah

[sour bison]

the psychosis is setting in

[sour bison]

fuckass load balancer

[tiny leaf]

its working out

[tiny leaf]

???

[unique cypress]

it's not even a balancer lol

people are calling way to many things a "balancer"

a balancer is a very specific thing

[tiny leaf]

yeah its not

it just makes sure each belt has enough

thats all

it would only be a balancer if each belt was maxed out but the inputs were all different

and not in surplus ofc

[sand epoch]

Deformed manifold more like.. lol

[unique cypress]

It's not even close to a manifold