math-and-meta

[upbeat summit]

damm okk

man i tried to hunt things in the swamp (worst decision of my life)

[rich bison]

yeah the fart clouds and spiders suck

resources are pretty good there tho

[vapid gorge]

The iterations of fuel are not necessarily ‘better’ each step basically turns coal or Sulfur or whatever into more oil, as you can always just make more diluted fuel

[upbeat summit]

okk, btw how good is electrode aluminium scrape?

[rich bison]

i think its one of the worst recipes in the game

lemme verify

[upbeat summit]

is there any reccomended tier list?

[rich bison]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fekus9/alternate_recipe_ranking_10_optimizing_for

and then theres another link for item efficiency

[upbeat summit]

kk... thanks

[vapid gorge]

I would really ignore those lists

They completely ignore some of the most fundamental reasons to pick one recipe over another

[rich bison]

which are?

[upbeat summit]

that is the flow / wanted byproducts etc etc of a factory?

[frosty owl]

Your very own preferences

[vapid gorge]

Location
Other recipe choices
Final output goals
Preferences in logistics

[vapid gorge]

Nah less important

[rich bison]

i found the 'no life' one pretty useful since i designed a mega power plant that used alot of resources, i didnt want to use like 60k concrete, i wanted all the numbers low

[upbeat summit]

man but how would i know if what i'm getting form the alt recepies is good or not, by your thinking if would have to est the factory fisrt, then go like... if i had a particular recepie that did this... then this would be better....

[rich bison]

i think the s and a tier ones are really popular regardless of these situations anyways

[vapid gorge]

The main problem with tier lists though is it locks your brain into ‘this recipe bad, this recipe good’

And that depends on your situation

[frosty owl]

That sounds very much like "playing and learning the game", tbh 😅

[upbeat summit]

yes it does.... but that also feels like a pain

[vapid gorge]

Hunt for all the recipes, decide on a factory goal, play around with locations and recipes (for what is locally available) and go

[rich bison]

yeah you can always find more harddrives, theres actually more than there are unlockables

[upbeat summit]

fair enough

[vapid gorge]

If that’s a pain choose recipes at random.

As ‘high tier recipes’ can be bad in situations

[upbeat summit]

ohkk

[vapid gorge]

So you might as well use anything if you don’t want to think about it

[rich bison]

i always reccomend any recipe that negates screws

[upbeat summit]

lmao fair

[vapid gorge]

And see there’s another example
Screw recipes can be amazing when combined with steel screw

[rich bison]

and steel rotor is useful since it makes it the exact same recipe as rotors, so motors become really easy to make

[upbeat summit]

yeah screws are a pain, but i think i've mostly hunted all of the usable "steel recepies" available in phase3

and then i use whatever the satisfactory tools tells me is the best option

[vapid gorge]

Coke steel and solid steel are the most commonly used ones. Compact is often awks

[rich bison]

ive only ever used solid steel :P

[vapid gorge]

Edit the recipes by hand to match your location, you’ll see a hell of a dif

[rich bison]

it also makes numbers nicer, 45-60

[upbeat summit]

in the tool?

[vapid gorge]

Solid is great, but if you’re already making Petro products on site you can cut coal out which can be nice

[vapid gorge]

Yeah. What you do is check an alt recipe then remove the base. See what the plan looks like

[rich bison]

yeah this is a large factor, it could be hard for example to find oil caterium quartz and copper together so alternatives can make you need more of one material but negate others

[vapid gorge]

Sftools will also not tell you the ‘best’ recipe. It doesn’t know your situation abd assumes all resources are local

[upbeat summit]

i see, yeah that could be done depending on the location where i want things

although honestly, not having a resource available to me at a particular location, is just a better excuse for me to make another train station

[rich bison]

i personally use satisfactory modeler and design my factory how i want and will venture anywhere that has the resources all in a close area :P (until i get drones)

and even so i will still try to find most resources close by

[vapid gorge]

If you love trains sure 🙂 but that’s an example of why tier lists are bad, how willing you are to bring in more resources. And you effectively won’t run out of any anyway

[upbeat summit]

i understand

yeah, trains were a pain at first, but after working around for a while, i think they are the best to carry bulk resources around

[vapid gorge]

Sure! Like most things in the there’s a learning curve 🙂 my first train line was garbage

[rich bison]

yeah tier lists only consider, item efficiency and power consumption really

[vapid gorge]

And even item efficiency is hard for items that take multiple tiers
Like computers

[rich bison]

if those are a focus of yours then maybe consider them, but otherwise work with what you have

[upbeat summit]

man i have deleted my first train line like out of existence, it was an embarring snake going through the worst imaginable path

[rich bison]

i think the recipes actually consider the resources saved pretty well

[rich bison]

i just found some blueprints online :P

[vapid gorge]

O but how can you compare computer recipes that take very different components

[rich bison]

but i cant stand how much space a train station takes compared to the size of the average factory i make

[vapid gorge]

You could make circuit boards like 4 dif ways

[rich bison]

i dunno but i made my own nuclear power plant with the alternative recipes of my choice and made one with the most efficient ones and i saved over 40k items/min

[vapid gorge]

Nuclear chain in some ways is easier as almost anyone looking at those will be working for uranium efficiency and not care about the rest

Although you still get ass tons of power from the base

There’s a narrowing of preferences with the chain for most people

[rich bison]

well, when i was making it myself i was hitting the item limit of the world on multiple resources

[vapid gorge]

We’re you slooping things? As that shouldn’t be possible

Or trying to max ficsonium?

[rich bison]

when i made it with the efficient recipes i was struggling to make dark matter residue and i either could make 480 power shards a min to make enough dark matter residue but couldnt sink the power shards, or ironically the best option was ai expansion servers which made me go a lil over the bauxite limit

[rich bison]

i was using recipes trying to hopefully eliminate one or more resources from the entire production line

i can send the files for a comparison (the 'better' one was made in a rush and i havent organized it yet)

[vapid gorge]

Ok you were actively pushing Sam there then

[rich bison]

actually i can just ss the inputs

[vapid gorge]

Is this a 50.4 uranium rod plan?

[rich bison]

well actually sam got pushed anyways bc of the 4800 ficsonium needed for ficsonium rods

[rich bison]

the plan is max power

[vapid gorge]

So you’re converting stuff to uranium

[rich bison]

1,470,000mw

[rich bison]

nah that was another thing i didnt want to do

i wanted to min max the world uranium

[vapid gorge]

Yeah things go out the window when you’re slooping and converting

But if you want max power you go rocket fuel

[rich bison]

i did not convert a single think except ficsit ingots

and i used aluminum since its the most sam efficient

but ironically i was running out of bauxite near the end of the design

[vapid gorge]

Link the tools plan? This seems odd

[rich bison]

warning the 'better' one is messy still

[vapid gorge]

I won’t be able to really look at it for a couple hours but I’m curious

Oh modeller plans will be basically pointless sorry

No labels on anything

[rich bison]

for both designs i ended up slooping the sam because i needed to but it was only like 23 sloops

[rich bison]

wdym no labels

idek what would need to be labeled its pretty straight forward, and if its a label saying it makes one specific thing then just section it off or smth

[low fox]

Does anyone know why the top pump isnt recieving water?

I know i have a lot of pumps but ive kind of just been spamming them to get the water as high as it is now because before water wasnt even making it this far

my pipes after the pumps are also not filling with water

I tried removing some pumps and now it doesnt even reach the first pump

but i removed pumps from after it

this is ending me

[deft lichen]

Don't just aimlessly build pumps

After you place one, you get an automatic snapping indicator for where to build the next

If you want to run a pipe nicely vertically, build a wall and build the pipe alongside that wall

You can either use wall supports or pre-place the pumps and connect them directly

[unique cypress]

And it takes 64821.3 MW to mine all ores

Though if you were doing an actual project, you'd probably only need half that, since the vast majority of this is iron, copper and limestone

[deft lichen]

If pre-placing, build mk2 pumps every 13 walls (pump - 12 empty walls - pump)

How'd you get that number? This depends on how many freight cars per locomotive you have, and also freight platforms only draw power when actively un/loading, meaning you can buffer their draw with power storages

With 1:20 trains and PS I believe you could get it much below 50 GW

A skytrain would only be natural for something of this scale

[minor orchid]

@vapid gorge so like this? but then where do i connect the gens to

ooh or this

can i make both exit pipes after the hump equal height tho?

[vapid gorge]

that's basically the same thing

[vapid gorge]

sketch what you mean?

[vapid gorge]

the right side would take priority as long as all the pipes there are lower than the u bend

[minor orchid]

i see

thanks

i just dont have the place to put down the gens now lol

[vapid gorge]

fair 🙂

[wet scarab]

Anyone know what's the most profitable Tier 4 Item to Sink in ?

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch sink

[queen slate]

Assembly Director System or Thermal Propulsion Rocket.

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=sink

[vapid gorge]

also, just whatever you've got excess of as it's zero work

[wet scarab]

"Tier 4" not Phase 4

[crimson moat]

Was an average, not peak, so power storage is not relevant

I used 1:4 ratio of locomotives to freight cars though, i am not familiar with using less

[vapid gorge]

the link should have alist of all item points

[wet scarab]

Well Advanced Wiring it seems

wait what Xeno Zapper is 1880

Zipline is 5k ??

[queen slate]

Only handcraftable.

[wet scarab]

yeah I guess but still damn

[queen slate]

At this rate you can build a factory that makes more points than your manual efforts (even if a few more players assist you).

[minor orchid]

how does that even

[queen slate]

Besides, with automated factory you can just go do other stuff. Like, hunt animals for capsules. Or explore the map, or build another factory.

[minor orchid]

why are refs in the middle of my manifold not getting enough

the tightly woven pipeghetti is now even tighter
ill let it run for a bit see if it breaks

[deft lichen]

Oh yeah, given it's such a megaproject skytrains would be the way to go, and those don't deal with inclines

[crimson moat]

i wouldn't really want to build some flat skytrain thing 1km in the air personally

[minor orchid]

okay game what

[deft lichen]

You're getting all solids, that's not any usual build

[minor orchid]

the last manifold refinery has 95% eff

2nd to last 75

[deft lichen]

Ignore the in-game efficiency meter

[minor orchid]

how does that even work

[deft lichen]

It's ass

[unique cypress]

Welcome to pipes 🙃

[deft lichen]

It's uptime

Rely on math and check that the lights aren't turning yellow

[unique cypress]

Eh, I found it mostly accurate if the item flow rate has been stable for like 15-30 mins

If it's fluctuating, of course it's not gonna be accurate, it has a long-ass averaging time

[low fox]

but... my whole factory is built on aimless building 😭

but its fixed now. Maybe i should try make things neater more often....

thanks

[minor orchid]

okay it wokrs

@vapid gorge this works?

input by the pump

high enough that its above completely of the bottom pipe along the whole length

[vapid gorge]

in theory, though I worry a bit about potential back flow on it. Give it a try

[minor orchid]

maybe a valve/pump after the hump then?

[vapid gorge]

avoid valves in all cases
as for the pump, the pump would create the new max height the rest of the network would have to be below

[minor orchid]

why avoid valves?

[frigid maple]

all this for 10/min rotors 🥲

[vapid gorge]

they behave weirdly when pipes aren't totally full and don't stop sloshing

[minor orchid]

and im talking either limitless valve or unpowered pump to keep it from eating the station reserves

[vapid gorge]

yeah they don't stop fluid sloshing backwards through it

[minor orchid]

oh waht

what about a pump by the station then

so it can only go into the station

[vapid gorge]

diagram showing how, while fluid won't cross backwards, they'll still knock fluid backwards through it

[minor orchid]

and not out

[vapid gorge]

a pump would work, but like I said, it would not longer be the top of the hump being the height limiter

[minor orchid]

huh?

[vapid gorge]

well for example the top of the hump means you could have the rest of the network be at least lower than that and it'll act as an overflow right?

[minor orchid]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

well if you put a pump on the X here, that would be the new highest point , rather than the top of the hump.

I believe. I haven't actually tested it

[minor orchid]

oh i dont mean here

if anything then here

seems to work?

[vapid gorge]

yeah give it a go 🙂

I don't deal with overflow pipes, so just working on experience working with people's pipes , what I've heard and logic

I don't see anything obviously wrong here

[mossy ibex]

I'm about to make a phase 4 quartz facility. I realize the normal advice is "make what you need" but I'm trying to plan a little because I'm making a pretty build and I want to size it correctly.

1. I have a small facility somewhere already putting quartz and silica into dimensional storage
2. The only known use for this facility is crystals going to a small crystal oscillator factory, but that will probably grow quite a bit at some point
3. I am planning to cut silica completely out of AL manufacturing

So questions:

1. What will be my big future quartz needs? More crystal or more silica?
2. What scale should I be thinking for ppm on this stuff, given #1?

[vapid gorge]

really depends on your chosen recipes. You could use zero silica and a handful of crystal and build everythign in the game

another example of just making the raw resources as needed

or you could use an absolute ASS ton of both and want to probably use the purified crystal, and silica solution stuff

[mossy ibex]

I started to go down the ass ton rabbit hole which is why I stopped and asked here, haha

[vapid gorge]

really, plan a hub , figure out how much silica or crystal you need, make it there. or have a dedicated factory to send it to

similar to trying to make all your ingots in one spot and shipping them out. Becomes a logistical nightmare

unless that is specifically a challenge you think would be fun

[mossy ibex]

I was actually considering making enough factory to eat all the raw stuff into all quartz AND all silica, then turning things on and off as required, but then I was like... what am I doing here? What do I really need?

Eg. synthetic power shard will take a lot of wuartz I guess, but how many of those do I need? I guess it depends on whether I use ionized fuel maybe, but I'm not sure

[mossy ibex]

yeah I mean I started this at all becasue I needed to ship in crystal to my oscillators, but then I have this wide open spot with a couple qwuartz nodes and now my train line goes there anyway, and one thing is currently leading to another

[vapid gorge]

very few needed
like 2pm will build up FAST

[vapid gorge]

then do the purified crystal thing + distilled silica

it produces more silica + crystal than either of hte cheap silica or pure crystal recipes

at least combined

[mossy ibex]

I've been pretty nervous to use nitrogen, but I do have a lot nearby here

incidentally I'm pretty fucking sick of refineries at this point, lol

[vapid gorge]

at least the process doesn't take huuuuge amounts. And nitrogen is easy. Just don't use fluid buffers. Avoid them even more than with liquids

[mossy ibex]

oh really? say more about the buffers?

[vapid gorge]

and use the non pure recipes if you want ot avoid them

tempered caterium , iron and copper alloy. Tons of potential

[vapid gorge]

fluid buffers within pipe systems, will at best do nothing. At worst hide or cause problems

gasses are even worse for this, I think because they try to even out how full pipes are instead of flowing to the more empty section

[mossy ibex]

the only issue with distilled silica is that there is fuck all limestone around here. Hm.

[vapid gorge]

drone some in?

and if you haven't built anything you could pick a dif spot with quartz

[mossy ibex]

no drones yet, but I found a spot near a train line, so

[spare kernel]

How big is too big for a manifold? can I work with an 20x manifold?

[unique cypress]

As long as the belt can support all the machines, it'll work fine

[minor orchid]

holy SHIT

i did NOT notice that

copper highway to hell

[unique cypress]

welcome to pasta-land

[mossy ibex]

rookie numbers!

[tardy cargo]

What 2+2

[plucky tusk]

You can make it as big as you want lol

[spare kernel]

also recommended for low througput items like uranium / plutonium fuel cells?

[unique cypress]

when manifolding nuclear rods, cut off the water supply until the reactors fill. it'll speed up the filling a lot

you can put the extractors on a switched grid for example

[spare kernel]

okay, I will do so, thanks

[still blade]

Just unlocked fuel generators and got the alt recipe that directly makes heavy oil residue. Running some numbers, I came to these results of how much power I can make in the Blue Crater Lake. The question is what do I do with the polymer resin? It's more than I can fit on a single belt and I don't know how the refinery layout would even look like yet

[wind spade]

Don't try to fit things on one belt. You can e.g. make smaller modules that don't go over limit. As for what to do with the resin - look at recipes in codex and see

[knotty hornet]

If you don't wanna use it, just sink it.

[random creek]

There's an additional recipe you may want to consider that could stretch that oil usage even more

[still blade]

the diluted fuel ones right? does it matter if i get the normal or packaged one, or is it literally the same numbers but with added plastic

[oblique hollow]

Literally the same, the plastic cost is only temporary as you recycle canisters

[unique cypress]

They're not exactly the same. Diluted packaged fuel requires 5 MJ of electricity more per unit of fuel produced

[oblique hollow]

They make the same stuff is what i mean

Same efficiency

[mossy ibex]

you have to use the packaged ones right now though if you just unlocked fuel gens

the other one requires a blender which is next tier

[spare kernel]

Can I use a belt as bottleneck on purpose to sort items. For example I have two 720 belts and I need 840 items in 1 machine and 600 in the other. Can I just put a splitter on one 720 belt and get 120 items with an mk2 belt or do i have to place 1 million splitter?

[mossy ibex]

belts can be used as bottlenecks

but you also may consider jhust manifolding the whole thing

[spare kernel]

I need two type of items

[wind spade]

you can also clock the machines to both need 720

[mossy ibex]

you can still manifold the ingots into a line of machines making different things. In fact I have exactly this setup for steel

[wind spade]

well in this case, group the ingot foundries so that there's 533 on one belt and 862 on another

[mossy ibex]

extrac convinent so I can tune how many beams vs pipes I need at a given time

the only thing is that I have to reorient the output mergers if I switch the output for a machine. I could have sushi belted maybe, but that's not how I have it

[spare kernel]

Okay, I will try my luck

Grouping at the machines is a good way to go

But I unfortunately only have the mk5 belt

[wind spade]

well then you'll have 3 groups 🤷

and two of them will go to pipes

[minor orchid]

aluminium process module

280 bauxite 84 water and outputs 560 scrap

[still blade]

You might want to add a fully open valve on the return pipe so the intake wont flood the byproduct

[wind spade]

nah, valve is practically pointless

and for alu it's better to split fresh and recycled refineries anyway

[still blade]

doesnt the intake water for the solution also split and clog the water from the scrap?

[inner gulch]

that could actually completely prevent the byproduct from coming back if the intake pressure is greater

[still blade]

interesting, so how would someone prevent byproduct recycling clogging?

[wind spade]

^

f.e.

[rich bison]

this is very interesting, ive never needed more than 1 refinery of aluminum scrap so ive never really ran into this

[minor orchid]

i mean im inputting perfectly enough water to be balanced tho

since the numbers are actually round

so the output water and 84 intake are just enough to run it

[still blade]

once you start getting into large productions such as nuclear, you'll need to scale aluminum by a lot, so its better to get into the practice of mass production early.

plus it helps to have a lot of aluminum stuff at the start of getting it

[rich bison]

idk i made enough casing and sheets for all my needs from 1 refinery (prob overlcoked)

[minor orchid]

augh why do 8 smelters not fit in a bluepritn

i need 2x more

could i have saved space by using mk6 belts? absolutely
but i like the challenge of the mk5

[still blade]

so after checking how much fuel i'd get if I used the diluted fuel route of recipes, and i ended up with 136 generators at 100% clockspeed.
pros: 34,000 MW of power
cons: WHERE am i gonna put all of them

[minor orchid]

no thats 55 @250 lol (pls oc them)

[still blade]

i dont have that many shards to work with thank you very much

i dont mind building 136 of them, its the space constrains that worry me

[wind spade]

there's hardly ever a space constraint, except for self-induced ones

[dusky bronze]

so long as you don't mind making things look like a floating slab or building at the edge of the world anyways

[minor orchid]

150 shards is like 15 purple slugs

[minor orchid]

ey floating slabs are cool >:(

[still blade]

guess it's time for a weapons manufacturing sidequest

[minor orchid]

i like my factories open-air

(maybe except flying slabs in the air)

[wind spade]

even then, just the 2D space of SF is like 100 times more than you'll ever need

[dusky bronze]

yes

for this setup would it be best to have a couple different sets of refineries

[icy fractal]

How's my beltwork guys?

[minor orchid]

how the hell did uranium end up here

[dusky bronze]

it wanted to check out the factory or something ig

[minor orchid]

hm question, why use thatapp over smth like satisfactory tools?

[minor orchid]

nice

[wind spade]

can safely ignore, often happens when using maximise

[dusky bronze]

i just find this easier to use, cant get the right amount of inputs on satisfactory tools for the life of me

[wind spade]

wdym "can't get right amount of inputs"

[finite maple]

i heard the mk2 pipes have some sort of bug does anyone here know what it is?

[wind spade]

they do not have any specific bug

[finite maple]

ok i think i misremebered something about how they behave

[dusky bronze]

this kind of stuff

im probably just using it wrong tho

[wind spade]

yeah and what's the problem there?

[finite maple]

thats a lot of water lol

[dusky bronze]

the main way i've tried using it in the past is by setting up a production line and then changing the amount of base resources available in this thing

[wind spade]

there may be some parts of pipe system that some may call "buggy", but pipes don't really have any "bug" to begin with (afaik there are some with weird pump placements or something, idk)

[wind spade]

what do you want it to do? or what are you trying to achieve?

[dusky bronze]

i guess im trying to use it more like modeler than anything, i havent really used it for a while

where you work from the ground up instead of starting at the top and looking at the assembly line

[wind spade]

modeller is more for logistical planning, it's not really a calculator

Tools are practically the opposite, they can calculate production lines

if you mean "I want to figure out how much of X I can make from Y resources", tools can do that for you

[dusky bronze]

yes thats what i mean

[wind spade]

set the resources you have in the place you've screenshotted above
then in "production" tab, select what you want to make and change "items/min" to "maximise"
(and recommended third step - once you figure out how much you can make, copy the number, change back to "items/min" and use the number you've copied)

[dusky bronze]

that helps. thank you

[tiny leaf]

Do you NEED to have fluid buffers at the top of fluid towers? Or can you get by just using towers to not worry about headlift

[oblique hollow]

you can just not use the buffer

head lift is head lift

[wind spade]

you don't need fluid towers either

just build pumps

(and as for buffers, they serve practically no purpose other than buffering train platforms, or some weird setups with off-grid buffers for fluid storage)

[soft vigil]

Can someone help me I have mk4 belts right now and I am getting 600 resources from bauxite from a fully over clocked mk2 miner Ik I can put 480 on a belt but what do I do about the other 120

Do I put a splinter near the miner

So 480 goes one belt and 120 the other

[unique cypress]

if you only have mk4 belts, you cannot get any more than 480 out of the miner

[soft vigil]

Alright

[tiny leaf]

i just do it because
A it looks nice and

B i can localize pumps in 1 area and then never worry about headlift again

[oblique hollow]

never worry about head lift again
if only. Pipe network design matters

some network designs require you to use pumps to reset the headlift / pressure because the pipes are unable to stay full

and only full pipes transmit head lift

so be careful how you build your network

[nova vortex]

i need 32 refiners can i put them all in 2 rows 16 in each? or is there a point where the fluid wont make it to the ones further down?

[visual yarrow]

HAH. I just found a very sneaky throughput issue.

[unique cypress]

as long as each pipe is under 600, it's possible to make it work

[nova vortex]

i only have mk1 and mk2 pipes so yes each is under 600

[visual yarrow]

is this why people recommend never filling machines from below?

or something similar?

[oblique hollow]

mostly, yes

[unique cypress]

I don't think I've ever packaged oil

[oblique hollow]

also because as we recently learned junction orientation can fuck with things a lot

so like.... keep your junctions facing horizontally. vertical junctions are to be treated with caution

[visual yarrow]

caution has already been thrown to the wind. this is how I usually handle pipes these days

but it does actually work as one would expect it to work. the first pipe and machine in sequence fills up, then the next, and so on.

although, it is worth mentioning that I place my junctions first. I don't build them off of pipes.

[silent shoal]

@unique cypress If you remember about a week ago you tried to help me with my RF power plant, I found something else that turned out to be a problem.

I wonder if this will finally solve the problem...

[unique cypress]

I mean that looks fine I think?

[visual yarrow]

the idea was to avoid dealing with as much pipe nonsense as possible, as well as the bonus that my usual diluted fuel setup takes exactly 270/m, so a full mk3 belt's worth

but I ended up causing myself an entirely separate problem with that conveyor connecting to the wrong merger. thankfully, an easy fix.

[silent shoal]

Exactly not...
The difference in volume between the 2 tubes is 2.6 and that's X times the number of times this happens...

[unique cypress]

I don't see how a higher volume of a pipe would cause issues

[silent shoal]

🤷‍♂️ Me neither... In the end, it's just more time to fill up, it turns out not exactly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuSlYLebSAE&ab_channel=Bitz

[unique cypress]

If it's about pipes and I haven't heard it from McGalleon or EternalUnion, I don't trust it XD

[unique cypress]

the pipes are like this when you place the junction in the middle of an existing pipe. afaik, it should work fine

[visual yarrow]

also, on the subject of pipe orientation, I tend to run my output pipes like this

Okay, both mk3 belts are running smoothly at capacity, the return belt is perfectly synchronized, I think I can safely call this issue fixed.

[nova vortex]

woah thats awsome

[visual yarrow]

And now to stare at this for thirty minutes until it matches what I expect.

[minor orchid]

go make another factory in the meantime :3

the factory must grow

[visual yarrow]

Well, this factory working is kind of a prerequisite to that.

[minor orchid]

you can place the machines at least

[still blade]

already at 101 shards, im not sure how i'll get the other 50 since everything seems to want to kill me

[minor orchid]

i hope you are slooping them?

[still blade]

you can sloop generators?

[minor orchid]

no

the constructors making the shards

[still blade]

oh yeah they're slooped

[minor orchid]

👍

[visual yarrow]

speaking of shards

the spire coast actually feels kind of... lonely, without all the slugs glowing in the background

[visual yarrow]

I find that being better at killing them is very effective.

[still blade]

well too bad i only have nobelisks and a rebar pistol

[silent shoal]

I don't know, I'll update...

[visual yarrow]

It's not just about what you have, it's also about how you use what you have.

For instance- stun rebar. Suddenly makes landing those nobelisk sticks a lot easier.

[still blade]

so in other words, i have a skill issue

[visual yarrow]

Basically, i'm trying to say "git gud" but in a polite, constructive way.

I'm also mostly being facetious. I say mostly because I do actually have plenty of combat tips if you want to hear them, but to be clear, i'm just goofing around right now.

Perfect. Other than 15/m extra plastic but I am not waiting around for these to sync up to their actual average throughputs.

[minor orchid]

[unique cypress]

XD

[minor orchid]

..

that is INSANE

[visual yarrow]

And welcome to the downside of Pure Copper Ingot.

[unique cypress]

that's what I get for wanting to make 10 TW

[visual yarrow]

It's kind of a shame that it's not exactly 256

okay. in my attempt to figure out how to type exponents, I discovered this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenzizenzizenzic

i mean of COURSE it was proposed by a welsh guy

i'm going to start using this in regular conversation and confusing people

[pulsar idol]

300 curde oil per min on 5 refineries making fuel, should be enough to power 14 fuel gens?

[unique cypress]

how did you get 14 gens?

[pulsar idol]

im thinking that it might

[hoary oar]

there's multiple ways of making fuel from oil with alt recipes, some more efficient than others
but for calculating how many generators you need you can look at how much it consumes. for fuel it would be 20/minute
so if you use the default recipe of converting 60 oil in to 40 fuel, you would be able to run 10 generators with 300 oil

[pulsar idol]

how many fuel gens needed if i use turbo fuel?

since i am thinking of doing that

[hoary oar]

depends how much turbofuel you make

[unique cypress]

better use better recipes for fuel instead

[pulsar idol]

cause im on tier 5 and 6 atm and i need more power with the oil nodes i have

[hoary oar]

you got any spare hard drives to scan for alternate recipes?

[pulsar idol]

not atm

i want to make a 15-20 fuel generator power plant

or make a 10-15 fuel power plant with turbofuel

[unique cypress]

heavy oil residue and diluted packaged fuel would power 40 gens from 300 oil

[pulsar idol]

how many refineries and other production stuff needed for it?

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=WKQ029WnFTdkBpSNkX3L

[hoary oar]

might be worth exploring a bit to get some hard drives.
oil has some of the most powerful alt recipes.
if you don't want to tho, and you only have the previously mentioned 300 oil available, you can either make 200 fuel and power 10 generators with that, or you can power 22.222 generators with turbofuel, by just using the default recipes

[pulsar idol]

turbo fuel isnt that costly with building refineries?

[plush glen]

Are you building in a small space that you wouldn't be able to fit a lot of them?

[pulsar idol]

nope

[plush glen]

Then why worry about building a lot of buildings?

[hoary oar]

this is what the turbofuel, with base recipes would look like

[pulsar idol]

in case i ran out of resources mid build

[plush glen]

You can always just make more resources

[pulsar idol]

that can power 22 fuel gens?

[plush glen]

Your factory is stockpiling while we're talking here, should have plenty in no time

[hoary oar]

22.222 to be exact, yes
because each fuel generator only consumes 7.5 turbofuel

[pulsar idol]

that is true yeah

[pulsar idol]

ah ok dosent seem to be that bad

[pulsar idol]

800 fuel per min gives how many fuel gens?

[hoary oar]

40

[pulsar idol]

woh

[hoary oar]

diluted packaged fuel combined with heavy oil residue quadruples your fuel output, its a very strong combination

[plush glen]

Alternates and rocket fuel go crazy, I built a 200 fuel generator power plant with 675 oil/min

[hoary oar]

not there yes

[plush glen]

I know I know, but it's crazy how powerful oil based fuel can be

[pulsar idol]

ill keep note and will update the progress, thank you all!

[plush glen]

And yeah, diluted fuel + HOR alt is insane

[visual yarrow]

isn't it triple? or are you looking at basic fuel production versus diluted, rather than crude oil : fuel?

[unique cypress]

it's 4x vs straight fuel

[hoary oar]

compared to base recipe of just turning oil in to fuel directly

base you get 200 fuel from 300 oil
diluted/hor you get 800 from 300

[visual yarrow]

hmm. i suspect i'm conflating something specific to plastic/rubber. let me see what that is

[unique cypress]

plastic/rubber is 4.5x vs defaults

[vapid gorge]

turbo fuel is only 'more efficient' in the sense that you use less oil though. You have to us a bunch of other things to pad it out
which is fine? but you can always make tons of diluted fuel very easily.

[visual yarrow]

okay I think I understand where i'm getting mixed up

i'm looking at it from the perspective of starting with a fixed amount of crude oil, versus the relative amount of oil used

[unique cypress]

why is your res rubber off lol

[visual yarrow]

what do you mean

[unique cypress]

converting resin to residual rubber gives you higher oil efficiency

[visual yarrow]

oh, why do I have them separate?

that's purely to simplify the visualization, because there's no way to specify that I want 180/m rubber made with a specific recipe

[vapid gorge]

Im' surprised the tool didn't automatically make it into resiidual rubber for the loop though. I thought it usually did that

[unique cypress]

?

[visual yarrow]

yeah. and now all the numbers are wonky.

[unique cypress]

or this

[vapid gorge]

wonky?

[unique cypress]

numbers like any other

[vapid gorge]

are you a decimal bigot?

[visual yarrow]

well it's moreso that i'm aiming for an equal number of equivalent recycling refineries

so I can pair them up

[vapid gorge]

so clock them that way

[visual yarrow]

it doesn't work unless they're identical.

[vapid gorge]

evenly clock them

[unique cypress]

smart splitters and you don't have to care about ratios or anything

[visual yarrow]

i'm not even sure what ya'll are trying to say at this point

but the image you just posted is how I used to do it. I just changed it to setting the resin total in the production planner because it made it easier to adjust the amount of input crude oil, without also converting to the equivalent rubber

[vapid gorge]

so lets say you want 24 of each plastic and rubber refinery again right?

[visual yarrow]

no. this is not how I approach it

i approach it as "i have 540/m crude oil, let's make all of that into plastic and rubber."

[hoary oar]

i do it the same way, i turn off redisual rubber, just makes visualization easier
and since i don't use the residual rubber in the main loop anyways, it doesn't matter at all

[visual yarrow]

let me see if a screenshot will help

[vapid gorge]

you don't need that much oil though to do exactly that

[visual yarrow]

i don't need that much oil to use a specific amount of oil to make plastic and rubber? that is literally what you just said

what did you actually mean

[unique cypress]

I just make however much plastic/rubber I need?

idk why would I maximize from a specific oil input

[visual yarrow]

because handling an entire node all at once means I don't have to go and start taking more from it later and dealing with pipe splitting and that sort of thing

i know i've got plenty of potential uses for plastic and rubber. so I treat it the same way as taking an entire ore node and processing it all into ingots in a centralized location with logistics access

[unique cypress]

I just use a different node whenever I make a new plubber factory. it's gonna be in another location anyway

I only max oil nodes when making fuel for power

[visual yarrow]

okay then, you do you. but the original subject was the whole x3 vs x4 vs x4.5 thing

[hoary oar]

the way i approached plastic and rubber is to do a rough calculation of what im gonna need in total, for everything
and then find the nearest number thats higher than that, which can use up multiple full nodes
i know im gonna be making to much plastic and rubber, but its not like i need every single drop of oil in the world, so who cares

[visual yarrow]

the reason I got mixed up is because when making plastic and rubber like this, you get x3 the output as you have crude oil input

ie, 540 crude = 1620 plastic/rubber, including the 180/m residual

but in terms of fuel produced, using 540/m crude to make fuel using the default results in a loss of a third of the input, for 360/m fuel, whereas diluted fuel is 1440/m- thus quadruple

while these throughput monitors aren't great at tracking the exact total when you start dealing with this sort of scale, they do work very well for how I treat plastic and rubber: as a resource I have a known amount of, and can "subtract" from for production as needed

if anyone has a problem with this, too damn bad

[pulsar idol]

how much oil needed to make 800 turbo fuel per min and how many fuel gens that gives

cause i do want to use turbo fuel more or should i make the 40 fuel gen power plant before turbo fuel production

[viscid cliff]

You could use production planner to quickly compare and contrast

[unique cypress]

800 turbofuel is 106.666 gens

the rest depends on recipes

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[pulsar idol]

woh...

seems likemi cant put it in the production planner

cause i was thinking of doing either 400, 600 or 800 turbofuel per min

[unique cypress]

you need to enable the appropriate recipes

[pulsar idol]

nvm i fixed it

450 turbofuel per min seems good for me

idk how many fuel gens that gives

[unique cypress]

Divide by what 1 gen consumes

7.5/min in the case of turbofuel

[pulsar idol]

66.66 fuel gends

gens*

round it off, 67

[unique cypress]

450/7.5 is 60...

[pulsar idol]

oh i did 500

didnt put 450 in

[unique cypress]

Plus, if you just round up, you'll have some gens turning on and off

[pulsar idol]

oh....

[unique cypress]

Which is probably undesirable

[pulsar idol]

unclock one?

[unique cypress]

That is one of the ways to deal with this, yes

[pulsar idol]

60 if do 450, 66 if i do 500

either way its not too abd

bad*

plus i can use the polymer resin to make rubber and plastic if i get the alt recipe

[manic oxide]

Hello guys, any tips for doing nuclear pasta (alternate recipe)

[unique cypress]

There's no alt recipe for pasta...?

[manic oxide]

no but for before

like idk how to make an efficient plastic factory

or how to make a lot of concrete

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

Enable everything and then disable anything you don't like/don't want to use

[dusky bronze]

is there a technique to booting up oil systems like this or do they just take a while to start up

[unique cypress]

I'd do something like this
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=s5QjK8Uyz8YlUvzHTVPD

[unique cypress]

Use the residual rubber to start it up

[dusky bronze]

thats what im doing

takes so long

waiting for refineries to fill up and then i'll fix this spaghetti nightmare

[vapid gorge]

it's multiple stages of manifolds, of course it is

[thorn trail]

you can use smart splitter(s) on the outputs to redirect everything but overflow back into the system to fill things up faster

[vapid gorge]

you really want to fix that BEFORE you start up a fluid system

[dusky bronze]

this is what im doing for the outputs, anything that doesnt fit into storage gets sinked

[thorn trail]

though filling up the recycled rubber/plastic refineries faster will expose the slowness of the HOR/fuel systems filling faster as well since it will put more demand on them quicker

[dusky bronze]

a lot of it will be sent to trains eventually

[unique cypress]

Yeah, the way these belts are laid out makes me think they did not do that.

And recycling setups are best made with multiple, separate loops, each less than one belt of each item total

[dusky bronze]

this is the first time i've made one like this so if it comes to it i could probably tear it down and rebuild it better in a day or so

the problem right now seems to be that i've belted the outputs for each "set" of refineries into each other so that there isnt really any growth in the system unless i let the refineries back up

[unique cypress]

I probably would've built 9 of these setups
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ZwpQrIZ0qeeLF9abQAzq
if I was doing something like this

Merge all rubber produced on one belt, same with plastic on another, and then send it to their respective recycling refineries with an overflow splitter as output

And the residual rubber getting a priority merge onto the rubber belt so the resin doesn't deadlock everything

It's a bulletproof setup and it can work in any output ratio, not just 1.25:1

And it can dynamically adjust to demand, as long as there's enough refineries to meet it
(can switch from converting 100% of oil into rubber to 100% oil into plastic. You just need enough refineries to support both of those things separately)

[dusky bronze]

and im assuming that you'd let everything you're not using go to overflow sinks, right

[unique cypress]

You don't need to, but you can

Though you wouldn't get that automatic adjustment, because that relies on one side's output being at least partially stalled

[dusky bronze]

i've got the residual rubber splitter set up with overflow on the belt going straight ahead so that until the system fills up it should all be going into the refineries

[dusky bronze]

did this and everything seems to be working much better, ty

now i just gotta let it run for a while

[knotty hornet]

I'd love to see if your belting overall is pretty much the same as mine.

[dusky bronze]

the is the rubber

3 belts of plastic go in, 6 belts of rubber come out and 3 are sent to storage while the other 3 are sent to the plastic area

same thing for plastic except its across 2 stories and doesnt fit into a picture as well

[knotty hornet]

I built all the refineries in groups of three so I could merge/split easier, then a placed them in alternating blocks of plastic and rubber, 180° rotated each time so output could feed to inputs, and then anything that didnt feed into the machines next to itself fed to the main output belts. It filled up pretty fast for me.

[dusky bronze]

and then heres all my fuel

[knotty hornet]

Did you do that all on one level? 😳

[dusky bronze]

and thats all coming from 2700 crude oil

[knotty hornet]

Holy gee

So i did only one of those veins there

[dusky bronze]

pretty much yeah, you should see my aluminum build

i like the sprawling industrial hellscape aesthetic

[knotty hornet]

But I also did it as a building, pumped the crude/water up, and let the residue/fuel work its way down. Muuuuch easier piping.

[thorn current]

how many oil nodes are you using for this?

[dusky bronze]

everything in the gold coast

[knotty hornet]

Seems like all of them over there

[dusky bronze]

i think 1 pure well, 2 pures, 2 impures/normal

[thorn current]

zamn

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, the well gives 900, and then 2 pures and 2 normals

[thorn current]

i gotta explore more ngl im not even sure ive seen that area

[knotty hornet]

Far west coast

[dusky bronze]

and theres my nuclear build off in the distance

had to take a detour from that because i needed rubber and packaged turbofuel

[thorn current]

makes sense ive been going east more lately

[knotty hornet]

In the southeast there is an awesome crude spot too

[thorn current]

the maps giant so im not even that far east

[knotty hornet]

Very bottom corner of the map

[dusky bronze]

blue crater lake, you'll probably have found it by now

[knotty hornet]

3 pures, 2 normal, 1 impure

[thorn current]

fat maybe

[dusky bronze]

its this area

[knotty hornet]

It also has good nitrogen and sulfur for a nuclear waste factory

[dusky bronze]

those 2 spots are really the only good places to set up a large oil build

[thorn current]

lemme load up the game so i can check rq

[dusky bronze]

there are a few more wells/nodes across the map but they're only good for making parts for 1 or two factories

[dusky bronze]

im gonna be taking at least half of the nitrogen i need from the top part of the map

[thorn current]

before now i feel like ive just been brute forcing the phases with what i found within a km or two

[dusky bronze]

im hesitant to use the stuff from blue crater rn because its currently mostly being used for a rocket fuel plant

[thorn current]

yeah...

[dusky bronze]

iirc theres another pure nitrogen well in the red desert but with the way i've set up my trains it would be really awkward to try and get to

[knotty hornet]

There is a super pure nitrogen in the spire forest (not sure thats the proper name) near the west coast. And also a good one on the northwest corner near all that coal.

[dusky bronze]

i've got the one in the north west

and getting to the one near me shouldn't be too annoying i think

could probably just pipe it all over to my power plant

[knotty hornet]

Tbh, most of my nitrogen gets packaged and flown around.

[dusky bronze]

havent had a good packaging setup since 1.0 lmao so i've been avoiding that

finally have some plastic to play around with tho

[knotty hornet]

The only one I have piped up straight to a factory is the one in Blue Crater cuz im making nitric.

[knotty hornet]

Oh, but gases need aluminum tanks to package

[dusky bronze]

ahh

i also needed to get turbofuel around for drones

[knotty hornet]

And i don't think any alt recipes exist to make them not out of aluminum

[dusky bronze]

my current setup i think is just 130 raw turbofuel/min

[knotty hornet]

I know you can make liquid canisters out of not plastic.

[dusky bronze]

once i get that all packaged and moving around it should be good until i can get things running on plutonium

[knotty hornet]

Is that just using the runoff compacted coal from your rocket fuel setup?

[dusky bronze]

no its from a very bad rubber setup i made in my first aluminum build

needed something to do with byproducts so i belted over some sulphur and coal from the plateau next to the red forest

i used to have a much bigger one in the west coast but i tore that down for 1.0

[charred gulch]

When the truck station says maximum transfer rate of 9 stacks per minute, does it mean that is the most possible? Or does it calculate that based off of my trucks round trip time?

[vapid gorge]

I think what the trip is doing because you can transfer a stack from station to truck in a secon or something.

But I also wouldn't depend on the transfer rates to tell you if it's working

[charred gulch]

Okay. I wanted to try and balance it's output with another resource, but I guess until I really figure out what that output is, I'll just manifold it and sink the excess.

[vapid gorge]

well you know if you're moving all the stuff in the truck station by knowing how much you're feeding it, and if the producers arne't getting clogged

[low spruce]

@vapid gorge this is what i meant with branched pipes. orange is fuel refinery, red turbo fuel and pipes are blue simple enough this is how my friend routed it and it wasnt working among other problems. i am just curious if this itself is an issue or if it was some other stuff going on cus id like to know for my own sake lol .

[vapid gorge]

yeah this layout can pose problems, but it's not impossible to make work

[wind spade]

why not have each orange thing feed 3 red things?

[low spruce]

personally i wouldnt do it like this, its my friends first playthrough and so now im just trying to validate myself because i think i have a good understanding on liquid physics but this plant took me way longer to troubleshoot than id have liked lol

[vapid gorge]

assuming it's all flat, putting pumps on the yellow Xs here could fix it

[low spruce]

ok thank you ill keep that in mind if for some reason i ever end up in this situation again lol..

[vapid gorge]

another solution would be to make it 1 manifold like this

[vapid gorge]

but what greeny said is probably the one that will cause you the least problems

keeping pipe systmes much less than 600 and in smaller groups gives you a lot of leeyway

[low spruce]

yea this is how i ended up rerouting it. i think it was all still failing cus 3 of the machines were just already full on fuel and idling and i didnt flush them enough when diagnosing lol

ty for help

[vapid gorge]

no sweat 🙂 there's a few other things that affect how easily you can squeeze 600 flow for systems, but you can ask about that another time if yo ulike xD

[oblique hollow]

Why not just this (see above)

Avoids the problem of funneling everything down one pipe

Its not needed to shove everything down one main line

[vapid gorge]

I still see back flows happening at branches like that

[low spruce]

yea that stuff makes me paranoid and it ends up making no difference in one long line becuase when i make these things myself i turn every refinery off and let each one fill separately

[fallow siren]

just add pump on each juction

[wind spade]

that's probably too many pumps

[low spruce]

true it’s unnecessary potential headache and easily avoidable

[fallow siren]

it is avoidable, can be easily fixed

you can do one way manifold

instead of branching them

[low spruce]

yes i agree 100%, and with everyone’s input and again this was my friends first power plant not mine, so i just basically told them no more branching even if there are ways to make it work lol

there is something i do want to know tho is how far the decimal points truly goes before the game actually rounds or it doesn’t matter cus it seems like something crazy like 5.727827 will actually calculate even if it rounds in the machine but not sure if they’re so small that it doesn’t even matter vs 5.7279 or 5.728 or if i should just avoid stupid numbers like this all together

[crimson moat]

It does 4 decimal places

pipe splits and merges are fine, but they will create sloshing unless you split/merge equal amounts

e.g. a 300 flow goes into a junction with 2 pipes coming out? They get 150 each.

[vapid gorge]

they stop at the 4th

so you'll want to round up your 4th decimal

[crimson moat]

fluids can and will self balance, but unless your splits and merges are equal, they will slosh while doing so (move back and forth on multiple paths, counting against flow rate multiple times). So it's best not to rely on this self balancing for unequal splits if your pipe is anywhere near the flow rate cap. At half of the cap it should be fine, even 3/4 most of the time.

[wind spade]

depends on place

clock speed is limited at 4 decimal places
any other number is calculated with hardware precision
practically all numbers in UI (apart from clock speed) are rounded, so may not be 100% accurate, but the game uses the underlying non-rounded numbers

[low spruce]

okay thank you all. so if i have 3 machines to make 1 of something and they do .3333 each will it ever have an imbalance or would that take like years and years of playtime to miss .0001? i know i can just do like .25 .25 and .5 but these things come up and i get curious🤣

[wind spade]

(and a good mention - anything that says "X / min" is just a calculated value and game doesn't really care about that - game uses cycles and whole items)

[wind spade]

you can do .3333, .3333 and .3334

[low spruce]

aaaah no shit 😭 thanks, before i’d just spam 3s like .33333333 and hope for the best

well i guess knowing they do only 4 makes that easier than just hoping

[wind spade]

but yeah, unless you are perfectionist, the .0001 won't really matter much. it's maybe once in a few hours/days where machine stops for a few seconds, so if you don't care about that, you don't have to do exact amounts

that's assuming you're talking about setting clock speed. If you're using the "output per minute" field, it gets more complicated, and I'd generally recommend not using it if you want exact results

(but again, if you don't care about the 0.0001-0.0002 differences, you can freely use the output field as well)

[fallow siren]

most of the time you wont notice that anyway

[wind spade]

yeah, as I said, it's not really noticeable unless you pay attention a lot, but it's not 100% accurate, which may be bothersome to people, so I mention it 😉

[low spruce]

i’m not that much of a perfectionist but yellow lights raise my blood pressure so anything to absolutely avoid them 🫠

even if it’s impractical

[wind spade]

well in the case of small differences, there will be yellow lights, but just once in a few hours/days. Depends on you if you're ok with that or not 🙂

if you're not ok with it, then:

• clock speeds with repeating decimals are problematic (so if you need 5.333333333333... machines, you can't do exactly that, and have to pick a different number
• clock speeds should be inputted manually (not via the "output per minute" field)
• if you want to split a whole machine into e.g. thirds, round one up (e.g. 33.3333%, 33.3333%, 33.3334%)

[low spruce]

that 2nd point makes a lot of sense i think i’ll start doing this now. i basically ONLY use the output field currently

[wind spade]

reasoning for the 2nd point:

if you put something into that field, the game has to calculate the clock speed required for that production, and then round it to 4 decimals. You can end up with rounded-down or rounded-up variant (basic rounding rules), and you always want rounded up since otherwise the production could be slightly not enough

even worse - if the field contains a formula, there may be additional rounding or decimal errors during calculations of that formula 🙂

that's why I wouldn't trust it if I really want best precision possible and input it only manually based on actually needed numbers (but again, if you don't care about very small inaccuracies, you can ignore all of the above 😛 )

[oblique hollow]

So? the flow per pipe segment is reduced so its not as much of a problem

[low spruce]

well i could see this problem doubling when you are doing the math in the output/m to get a specific input number for some god forsaken reason and this is probably why one of my power plants fluctuates power every few hours 😭 it doesn’t bother unless its the power line fluctuating that is another thing that i hate. another reason i will never use geyser power

[vapid gorge]

I’ve had things like that cause enough of a stutter to stutter the whole production system down

[oblique hollow]

Well just add 2 pumps on the outside parts

If it shut down the whole system then it must have been a pretty bad design

Because the pressure usually doesnt fluctuate that much

[vapid gorge]

It’s pretty common with branched manifolds. Pumps tend to fix it when it does pop up though

[minor orchid]

holy shit im a dumbass

i have 765 coke and i used 785 for my alu

:>>

[ripe wing]

are there any alts i could use

good alts

[plucky tusk]

Idk what resources you got available

[ripe wing]

all

im getting everything here with trains anyway

[plucky tusk]

Then whatever makes the most ig.

[minor orchid]

pure ingots
steamed sheets

[plucky tusk]

But like theres alts for almost every item on that list

[minor orchid]

could go plastic limiters? since you have too much oil anyway

and caterium boards and wire

could knock out copper completely with that

which is a bitch to refine with pure ingots

[vapid gorge]

Then doesn’t really matter. You’re not going to run out of resources

[minor orchid]

touch more to do but doubles your production per input almost

[vapid gorge]

The real power of alts is mostly about making the most out of what is local

[minor orchid]

and completly knock out some resources

like copper here

[wind spade]

alts are "good" depending on situation

[fallow siren]

good based on what?

resource efficiency?
complexity?
space efficiency?

[vapid gorge]

Those are mostly replacement resource recipes. They’ll just have to import more of something else

[minor orchid]

easier to belt in 300 cat instead of 210 cat and 150 copper

[vapid gorge]

The person doesn’t really sound like they want to think

So it really doesn’t matter what recipes are used

[vapid gorge]

Much of a muchness

There likely copper next to something else they are moving

[fallow siren]

what if they want to save caterium?
they need to go for fused quickwire

it really depends on what you want to do

[vapid gorge]

They don’t seem to ‘want’ anything

[fallow siren]

you want to do less caterium? go fused quickwire but you need to bring more resources

you dont want to bring more resources?
like it or not you will be using more caterium

[minor orchid]

and looks like mu uran plant fixed itself

sadly burned thourh like 12 tickets worth of hazmat filters

cos dumbass me didnt make any meaningful amount of them

[wind spade]

automate them 🙂

[minor orchid]

im making like 400 of them now

in a temporary™ factory

aka slooped manufacturer lol

[plucky tusk]

Cant even tell what it is

[minor orchid]

5/min of all phase 5 elevator parts

[plucky tusk]

Sounds fun

[unique cypress]

I suggest you don't use inputs in Tools. it has a tendency to waste them if it means it can save 0.001 iron ore

[minor orchid]

fixed that

[vapid gorge]

should probably split this into multiple plans. It'd help you a lot

[limpid vapor]

i need to balance 8 inputs between 15 machines, will this sort of setup work?

8 incoming lines
merge the 8th into the first 7
split the first 7 each into two
Before splitting, collect overflow from each to manifold it all together into a 15th line

smart splitter just under my cursor is set to let any pass in the middle, which gets split by the splitter just to the right of my cursor, and overflow to the left, which is what gets collected to form the 15th line, all 7 lines are set up like this, and merged together as a manifold on the far right side

thoughts?

[vapid gorge]

there's no way you can clock it to 16 machines?

[limpid vapor]

the rest of the system is already fully built and troubleshooting is done, and it seems functional, i would prefer to fix this here

[vapid gorge]

are you trying to load balance?

[limpid vapor]

something like that

i was thinking that i should be able to leverage the machines consumption rate as a bottleneck to support this system

[vapid gorge]

are the 8 belts full?

[limpid vapor]

yes, the assumption is that all these belts are always full

[vapid gorge]

are the 15 machines clocked very high already?

[limpid vapor]

they are each at 100%

[vapid gorge]

ok and are you going to clock them all the same rate?

[limpid vapor]

they are

[vapid gorge]

is there a reason you can't just over clock them so it's 8 belts to 8 machines? removing machines is generally easy

[minor orchid]

thats what im doing

[limpid vapor]

its a very large system with the rest of it already built and functional, rebuilding it would be far more work than balancing it here

[minor orchid]

so far cut off the whole oil and bauxite preprocessing

now working on the ore refining

[vapid gorge]

alright.
create 1:15 splits for each belt, merge one of each together

[minor orchid]

just manifold
fr

just one more belt

[limpid vapor]

i realize that is an option and is definitely the most reliable way, i was just really trying to avoid managing 120 sub lines

[vapid gorge]

you can do an injection manifold then?

[minor orchid]

how many?!

[limpid vapor]

8*15 belts

[minor orchid]

are you doing screws

[vapid gorge]

if he has to do 8x 1:15 splits that's 120 belts

[limpid vapor]

no, i am balancing coal offloading from a train

[minor orchid]

for what ecact purpose

[limpid vapor]

efficient train system

[vapid gorge]

Look buddy. you've totally painted yourself into a corner here because you've done these steps w/o planning for it.

[minor orchid]

asking because im gonna be running in 3k coal on 2 carts so

[limpid vapor]

i did plan for it, but poorly 😄

[vapid gorge]

one of the main problems with load balancing systems is you have to plan all the steps together or wind up with messes like this

so you either need a giant mess of a load balancer with 120 belts that merge to 15

or just do an injection manifold. Which will work

[limpid vapor]

its not really a mess, im just trying to figure out if i have an alternative

[vapid gorge]

since you seem to be adamant about not changing anything else

[limpid vapor]

well, if i truly have no choice but to make the 120 lines, thats still a lot less work than rebuilding it all. but, the whole reason i am here is to see if i have another option

[vapid gorge]

managing load balancing means breaking machine groups into sections that will work with what you're doing. having 8 to 15 machines is shooting yourself in the foot

[limpid vapor]

im not sure i follow

[vapid gorge]

I would have designed the rest of all the steps completely differently to accomodate that

[vapid gorge]

you could have, for example, designed the step after the 15 machines to work with 16 machiens instead

[hoary oar]

the most powerful tool for load balancing is machine count/overclocking

[vapid gorge]

definitely machine count. And clocking is just the most powerful logistic tool you have

[limpid vapor]

i built the rest of it to follow this, almost to a T, the requirement for this stems from trying to keep everything else simpler

[vapid gorge]

8 to 12 would also have been much more manageble

[limpid vapor]

i have two trains that import coal, one does 1200, and this one does 1800

[vapid gorge]

wait, are you combining multiple nodes of bauxite into one big processing system?

[limpid vapor]

yes

[vapid gorge]

what are you doing with the waste water?

[minor orchid]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[limpid vapor]

this

[minor orchid]

whyyyyyy

[vapid gorge]

well at least you're not merging it back together

[limpid vapor]

i wouldnt dream of it, it would be a nightmare

[hoary oar]

are all the freight cars, across both trains loaded with the same amount of coal?

[limpid vapor]

all cars only leave when fully loaded or unloaded, so yes

[vapid gorge]

well what you would have done is process each node individually and feed the waste back in. And it would have been easy

[vapid gorge]

is the '15 machines' you mean 15 groups of 10 smelters?

[hoary oar]

no i mean as in, is one freight car attached to a impure node an another to a normal node for example
so you'd have 300 going in to the first and 600 in to the 2nd

[minor orchid]

i guess i could ship in only 1800 and take the rest locally

[hoary oar]

or are they all recieving the exact same number of items

[limpid vapor]

its the refineries making scrap, for coal there are 2 sub groups, one train supplies 10, thats already built, i made the transitional balancer. this is the other train doing 1800, supplying the other 15

but i do have 25 groups of smelters, each hooked to a scrap maker

but thats not really relevant

[vapid gorge]

your plan says 25 though?

and you said they were clocked at 100%

[unique cypress]

If you're balancing a train, then you need an actual balancer, and not some imitation

[limpid vapor]

yes? 10+15

[limpid vapor]

but it would be more interesting to have a different contraption 😄

[vapid gorge]

so the 10 are being sorted already in another way?

[limpid vapor]

traditional balancer

it was less lines to manage

[vapid gorge]

do you have a faster tier belt you can use?

than the ones bringing in coal?

[limpid vapor]

mk5 is all i got

[vapid gorge]

and each of them have 780 coal on them already?

[limpid vapor]

well, i mean i guess it depends on how you look at it, the train in total supplies 1800 per minute, 8 platforms, so each belt there should be carrying 225

[vapid gorge]

you don't have 8x 780 belts of coal? cause that's what yo uwere making it sound like

[minor orchid]

why exactly 5 platforms for jsut 1800

[limpid vapor]

well, the coal isnt going to a void, there are machines on the other end providing a bottlebeck

[vapid gorge]

are you putting a certain amount of coal per min on each platform or are you overflowing them onto them?

[limpid vapor]

thats just how i happened to set this system up idk

[hoary oar]

if you're not willing to change the machine count i think you're just gonna have to deal with the consequences now.
this is the kind of stuff you need to think about while designing the factory, and sometimes you learn that the hard way.

[limpid vapor]

you mean like on the supplying stations?

i think it comes from 3 pure nodes, 1 node each for 2 blocks of 4 as a manifold, and then a the third node is manifolded to all 8 platforms, but it shouldnt matter if the consumption is balanced on this end?

[vapid gorge]

it would make it a lot LOT easier if you had 225 pm on each platform coming in

[limpid vapor]

i did think about it. there is not a single linear way to build a factory

[vapid gorge]

can you load balance the coal on to the 8 platforms?

[limpid vapor]

wouldnt that mean i had to just build the balancing contraption on the loading end? whats the difference

i mean maybe

[vapid gorge]

because if each platform was 225, instead of the FULL belts you told me

you'd have a lot easier time

I thought you had 8 full belts

[limpid vapor]

im not sure why it matters how i load them though? its on this end that i need to divide them?

[vapid gorge]

ok this is probably the easiest solution with your many restrictions

1. load balance the coal platforms so they are each getting 225
2. make 8x 1:5 LBs
3. merge 1 of each of the 5 into 5 lines
4. split each of the 5 lines into 3 for 15

this cuts out the 120 belt split

[limpid vapor]

here is what i dont understand: if my supplying station provides 1800 per minute, why does it matter how its loaded, the time to load is the same regardless, and the train only leaves when full?

[vapid gorge]

look it's very late and I could be missing a throughput problem if you don't load balance it at the loading

If you can scan the plan and have it work ? yeah try doing it without hte LB load

[hoary oar]

i would take off 120 from each freight platform via smart splitters on to a mk2 belt first
makes the number of belts required a lot lower, because you already have 8 120 belts, so the remaining coal only needs to split across 7 belts

[limpid vapor]

mk2 might be a smart idea

[vapid gorge]

the way it is now there isn't a stable amount coming off each platform

[hoary oar]

well then you have to redo the train

can't load balance if you don't have a guaranteed input

[vapid gorge]

... you caaann... but you ahve to make sure there's no throughput bottle neck

which is annoying

having it be stable and even is generally a lot easier

[limpid vapor]

how isnt it guaranteed? with the way i described my loading end

[vapid gorge]

because some platforms will likely have different amounts coming through at different times

[limpid vapor]

but i did say, train only leaves when full

time to full is not related to how i load it

manifold loads in the same amount of time

[vapid gorge]

won't that cause problems since not all platforms will fill at the same time?

the lower throughput platforms will always force the higher throughput ones to wait

[limpid vapor]

it shouldnt, if one is full, the troughput just carries into the next platform

nothing is lost, nodes will keep outputting at the same rate

[vapid gorge]

Well you could try to do it w/o LBing the load side

but I'd bottle neck the platforms after the buffer with a mk3 belt, then mk5 and do the steps I told you

[limpid vapor]

well, my understanding is, that if my trains are set up the way they are, only leave when fully loaded or unloaded, to the station receiving the goods, the other end is a black box

it does not care

[vapid gorge]

I can't see your set up and it's very late. But doing the bottle neck and then the steps I suggested should work assuming what you're saying about it is accurate

my plan is based on your set up doing what you say it's doing

[hoary oar]

im assuming this is all done in 1 train station, right?
you got 600 spread across the first 4 cars
another 600 spread across 4-8
and the last 600 spread across all 8

[limpid vapor]

this plan?

[vapid gorge]

#math-and-meta message

with a bottle neck of a mk3 belt before the load balancing on each one

[limpid vapor]

is the belt necessary though? it sounds like it should be balanced with the contraption already

[vapid gorge]

I'd do it as a safety measure and it basically costs you nothing

[limpid vapor]

not sure what you mean, you are describing the source station, yes

[hoary oar]

and they are manifolded? or did you do 4 and 8 way splits

[limpid vapor]

manifolded, but like i said, i am like 99% certain that it does not matter how i load them because the train will only leave when its full, it would matter if i had it doing one load or unload, but that isnt how its set up

if one platform is full, the next starts filling, time to full should be the same regardless of whether they are loaded at the same time, or in sequence

[hoary oar]

you should technically be fine then, but i'd just split them instead of manifold

doesnt take a lot of space to do those

and its a easy way to guarantee that each platform has exactly what it needs

[limpid vapor]

i have the same loading set up for 7 stations providing iron, and it works great

[hoary oar]

if you feel like its enough, then i guess that works

[limpid vapor]

for easily divisible numbers i have setups like this

splits and manifolds built on top of equal merges

that is how i consume iron

the initial pic i posted, my logic was simply that, since the coal has somewhere to go, it should

like the main lines would take what they need, and the rest would overflow

[hoary oar]

so now on the other end, you can take 120 off each line with mk2 belt
then merge 4 together twice and take another 3x 120 off, which gives you 14x1 20 lines
and then just combine the remaining for the last one
that's probably the easiest way to do it

[limpid vapor]

this is similar to what i have made here, except instead of a belt limiting throughput, its a machine on the other end
#math-and-meta message

[hoary oar]

i'd use a split belt tho to take 120 off, if there's ever a small gap in the input, this can make up for it

[unique cypress]

This doesn't look like a balancer tbh. Maybe like a dozen separate ones

[limpid vapor]

sure, its not very elegant, but functionally its a typical m*n type thing

as typical as they got for me anyway, i dont do a lot of balancing usually

[limpid vapor]

ok, its not very typical, it looks a bit weird eheheh

it kind of operates on hopes and dreams

[minor orchid]

holy shit i need 6k water

perfect spot for 300 refineries

💔

oh ill have to transfer coal between 2 trains

4k of it

[viral sparrow]

what are you building to use that much coal and water

should i be worried

[minor orchid]

390 turbo diamonds and 9.6k copper ingots

holy death sphere

[cerulean stratus]

Hey guys

I'm doing a continuous spelev run
and this time, I'm using tractors for inter factory logistics

[minor orchid]

spelev?

[cerulean stratus]

space elevator

[minor orchid]

ah

[cerulean stratus]

I gotta stop using that word, everyone can understand rips, but nobody understands spelev

[swift rose]

Anyone here that can roughly say how many hypertube cannon stages I'd need to yeet myself from the blue crater to the rocky desert?

[cerulean stratus]

depends on your pc, but I'd say 12

[swift rose]

Wdym depends on the PC?

[cerulean stratus]

the more lag you have the bigger the boost

[swift rose]

Oh, well it's currently still pretty smooth

[viral sparrow]

i feel like its an issue with acronyms rather than an issue with tjat term

[cerulean stratus]

is spacelev better?

[viral sparrow]

spelevator seems to be the more commonly used term

idk

i dont like that one because it combined the first and last letter of the words

[azure shard]

ngl I call the space elevator the space elevator
I know I’m cringe

[viral sparrow]

yeah idk why everyone has to shorten and abbreviate ABSOLUTELY evetything

[wind spade]

he says, while shortening "I don't know"

[minor orchid]

how does that work even tho

[cerulean stratus]

the spacelev or the tractor logistics

[minor orchid]

elevator

[solar gate]

Yo.

[cerulean stratus]

if you don't keep up, you lose access to buildings

Now you can't just do a basic setup and leave the factory running anymore

Now you have to automate it

[mossy ibex]

yeah I do like this idea

I think the only reason they didn't implement it is that they set out with a core philsophy of doing things on your own time

no outside pressure

I may do a run like this some day

[minor orchid]

holy hell i need 12 cargo platforms

[upbeat summit]

why is it showing me this?

also is there any way / method to produce turbofuel? i have approx 480ish crude oil, and wanted to make a mini plant for quick power for a nearby factory from it

[lone jewel]

this just means that based on the inputs and recipes you have selected, there's no way to make turbo fuel with it

[upbeat summit]

i have selected the turbofuel recepie in the recepies section (turbofuel / turbo heavy fuel), but uhh can't seem to produce this (factories like converters / blenders etc are disabled since i'm at the beginning of phase 4)

[upbeat summit]

but turbo fuel is just fuel and compacted coal

[upbeat summit]

so it should be doable with say the current Crude -> HOR -> diluted packed fuel -> fuel -> turbofuel setup no??

i didn't disable any resources to this

or the alt, HOR + compact = turbofuel recepie works as well i think

sharing the link for this - https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Dl77k5bRmCdC5T9di0aA
i've toggled everything that could've been wrong
like ofc i can see the best method here , but i just wanted to make sure with the tool

[gaunt marsh]

you need compacted coal recipe too

[jaunty locust]

Hey, I have a question regarding what recipe is more optimal for aluminum ingot production, the original recipe or the pure aluminum ingot?

[upbeat summit]

oooohhh, i'm a dumbass

thanks, i didn't select that in the tool

[unique cypress]

I always suggest to turn on everything and then disable anything you don't want to use

[upbeat summit]

hmm that could work, honestly

[unique cypress]

especially this particular calculator optimizes for lowest resource usage. if you don't enable a recipe you could get, you could be missing out on huge resource savings

[limpid vapor]

will this balance 8:15?

the 1:5 at each of the top 3 inputs would be a real balancer with a loopback

[unique cypress]

assuming the total can fit on 5 belts and that all inputs and outputs are always equal, sure

but no, this is not an 8:15 balancer

[limpid vapor]

working assumption is that all inputs are equal, and at the very end, everything is equally consumed

[crimson plover]

What do you even need an 8:15 for

[limpid vapor]

unloading coal off 8 train cars to equally feed 15 machines

[crimson plover]

Ah

Yeah that would do it

[limpid vapor]

im really grasping at anything to avoid building a really complex balancer that my pea sized brain couldnt handle ehehehe

[unique cypress]

you could build a pseudo-balancer that relies on the outputs filling up

as long as none of the lines has a container/sink, it'd work

[snow maple]

i would recommend putting 2 machines of coal on each car and having the 8th car have half the throughput

so you feed 14 machines from 7 cars then 1 machine from the last

[unique cypress]

then you can't use "depart when empty/fulll"

[limpid vapor]

yeah im not sure how i would make that work with that setting

my loading side should be a black box with regards to what the receiving end is doing

[snow maple]

ive genuinely never used those, what is the use case for them?

[unique cypress]

higher train efficiency

it guarantees maximum throughput, so you can often get away with fewer cars

and it creates less traffic

[snow maple]

i see

[limpid vapor]

my aim is to create the most efficient possible system

[unique cypress]

also, like if it can all fit on 5 belts anyway, you don't need a full 8:15, you need an 8:5 and then 5 1:3s

[limpid vapor]

im not sure i follow entirely, i think this is what i am planning?
like merging the colored bits, into the first 5 belts

[unique cypress]

it's not a balancer

[snow maple]

is the empty/full setting per train or per station? as in can you have a train that has to fill up at one station but doesn't have to empty at another?

[minor orchid]

@supple gazelle do i need any more signaling here?

block signals on station entries

[limpid vapor]

the attachment is a balancer, idk can you explain to me what you mean like you would to a 5 year old lol

[unique cypress]

it's in the timetable, so it's individual to a one train's one stop

[snow maple]

sweet thx

[supple gazelle]

I don’t see any issues, if you added a block signal along the entrance path it might make trains dock a bit sooner tho

[minor orchid]

would a path right before the turn bend work?

[unique cypress]

that is a bottlenecked 1:5

[limpid vapor]

if i took 3 of these from across the 3 lines where i attach them, merge those 3 that i take, and then merge those into the first 5 belts.. would it balance?`assuming that that at the very end of those 5 are consumers at equal rate

[unique cypress]

to make any balancer, the first baisc requirement is that every input is connected to every output

the second would be that all the inputs and outputs have equal priority and the third that the connections have full capacity and aren't bottlenecked

[supple gazelle]

Since the trains slow down as they approach the station, it might also help to move the station’s backside block signal onto the bend, like so. After all this is #math-and-meta lol

[minor orchid]

why so?

[supple gazelle]

They’ll get out of the entrance block sooner, allowing other trains to dock sooner. The difference is just a few seconds tbh

[minor orchid]

'signal loops into itself'

[limpid vapor]

well, fair enough, but for my use case, i am not necessarily looking to build the textbook of what a balancer is if i can help it, i just need something that works - so, for my situation, would my contraption work? machines at the end of the line do provide a bottleneck, this isnt something that exists in isolation

if i get something functionally identical for my situation, that would be good enough for me

[unique cypress]

like I said earlier, if the inputs and outputs are always equal, and the total is 5 full belts or less, it'll work

[limpid vapor]

great, i will give it a shot, on paper, they should be.. equal

[unique cypress]

but if the coal consumption ever becomes unequal for some reason, it'll mess up the balance in the wagons

[limpid vapor]

the consuming system should be pretty stable

[supple gazelle]

Well that’s an interesting one, is that a snapping point on the curve? Usually this is a junction bug, but diagnosing those is evil. As I said before, the exact signal placement here is kinda minutia anyway, I’d just put it back and ignore that for now

[minor orchid]

yeah im putting the signal on a segment not junction

[supple gazelle]

There is a block signal at the front of the train station too, right?

[minor orchid]

yes

and the trains are connected to the netowrk

[supple gazelle]

ya I’m stumped ima just blame the bug here

[unique cypress]

it's probably the new 1.1 glitch

but idk why it happens

[mossy ibex]

it's really annoying that you can't put blocks at junctions without it breaking

it's very often the most logical place to put them, if it were working

I'm basically a train noob, so I can't really help with the problem

[still blade]

so my current big project ™ is to make a fuel power plant utilizing every oil node in the Blue Crater. I can build the thing without issue, it's just that my inventory doesn't have that much space. Do I just make round trips from my current base until I have everything built?

[unique cypress]

depot?

[mossy ibex]

unlock the dimensional depot, seriously

[still blade]

not big enough at the moment, like i need about 1.1k motors

[unique cypress]

it refills as you build

[mossy ibex]

yes, plus using multiple depots for the same product multiplies the rate at which it refills

eg I have 3 or 4 going for concrete

so I can zoop down with swathes without stopping

[unique cypress]

I have 10 🤣

[still blade]

im assuming you're splitting the final output into multiple depots then?

[unique cypress]

yeah

[mossy ibex]

multiple factories, but yeah you could split them

[unique cypress]

most items need just one tho

[still blade]

and tbh i didnt find that many orbs and i spent most of them on stack upgrades so i dont even have every item in the depot

[unique cypress]

for foundation, belt and refinery materials, I have several, tho

[still blade]

wdym refinery?

[unique cypress]

I love the pure recipes lol

[still blade]

oh

[unique cypress]

my builds can be 1/3 refineries

[mossy ibex]

after completing turbofuel, I have come to dislike refineries, haha

[unique cypress]

so the materials for those get used up quickly

[mossy ibex]

everytime I game out a factory and it's like "ok 60 refineries" I'm like... goddamnit

[sour bison]

Is this okay for my first oil setup?

[unique cypress]

I'd only start reconsidering at 6000 lol

even 600 is like fine, whatever

[mossy ibex]

sure it;s fine for a starter setup

[unique cypress]

you can use the resin from the other fuel for more plastic and rubber