math-and-meta

[cerulean stratus]

aluminum is relatively expensive to do

[thorn bane]

molded pipes helps

[split sierra]

im just in this weird spot where i can potentially consume all the bauxite in the world into ingots with a factory that mostly lays dormant

once i allocate how much alu i need for nuclear i'm technically free to use it for those forgotten alt recipes

it's 100% inefficient ik

[thorn bane]

have you made ficsit trigons yet? those need alu

[cerulean stratus]

Since I try to avoid doing multiple aluminum chains, I rather use aluminum for heat sinks and casing

[split sierra]

if i'm going the ficsonium route its like 6k/min for all the available uranium in the map

lmao that's actually huge

[thorn bane]

do you even have enough same for that

*SAM

[split sierra]

not without somerslooping lmao

since its not a lot of machines i can get away with it by sacrifing a handful of them

thats intresting lmao

but i'm still a few hundred hours away from facing the ficsonium challenge

[cerulean stratus]

even with molded, it's still the worst

in terms of steel efficiency

[thorn bane]

well it uses less reinforced plates but costs more steel

[cerulean stratus]

bolted is actually really interesting with steel

[thorn bane]

ye its surprisingly decent

[cerulean stratus]

as long as you ignore that you need to make a bunch of rips

[unique cypress]

Bolted frame isn't terrible, but at the same time it's not good enough for me to ever consider using it.

Bolted plate is basically the same. Both are very meh recipes

Iirc, iron-only the bolted combo can make frames for 10% fewer machines than stitched + steeled but for 10% more iron

There's not enough difference for me to bother with screws

[unique cypress]

Nope, iron only bolted recipes are terrible. Way more iron and machines

[cerulean stratus]

yeah I guess it's only better with steel

[devout ingot]

theres like 90k iron ore in the map, might as well use only iron recipes to save on other ores

[unique cypress]

But there's no reason to waste it on recipes that don't even give you other benefits

[devout ingot]

as in efficiency?

[cerulean stratus]

in the map is not a good metric

I rather look it in terms of locations

For example, northern forest has 4 pure iron and 2 pure copper
meanwhile on the other side of the pond you have only 1 pure iron and 3 medium coal and 1 normal copper

[spiral hornet]

How braindead is crafting the phase 2 materials? i am in compelte spagetthi now and want to rebuild everything somewhere else but I want to finish phase 2. Should I finish handcrafting it or just go rebuild now?

[fallow siren]

define braindead, cuz phase 2 is mostly steel

[unique cypress]

Iron only makes sense but not with the bolted recipes

Bolted + bolted requires more iron and more effort than stitched + steeled.

So if you are doing iron only, there's basically no reason to use anything else if you have the stitched and steeled alts

[devout ingot]

yea i use those recipes and ignore screws

[cerulean stratus]

don't worry, I got everything you might want for phase 2

[spiral hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-joe-pesci-pesci-what-gif-10718026964868693743

[jaunty locust]

How can I have a constant item output using trains? like if I produce 120 items per minute make the end output 120

[fallow siren]

use buffer

[cerulean stratus]

use mod

[fallow siren]

also, mk2 belt transfer exactly 120/min 🙃

[jaunty locust]

How do I use a buffer

[jaunty locust]

I'm using this but for whatever reason it displays 109 for some reason

[fallow siren]

display? are you using the conveyor monitor?

[jaunty locust]

the train docking station at the dropout station

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah I've done phase 1 a bunch of times but phase 2 felt much harder, but after doing this diagram, I understand why
There's a lot of steel required, and needing multiple belts for it all makes things annoying

[fallow siren]

ah, it doesnt have accurate numbers, you dont need to bother with it

as long as its close enough

you can also use monitor throughput to see the rate/min

[jaunty locust]

Not me loosing my mind because of it

[unique cypress]

Industrial container on both the loading and unloading side

[jaunty locust]

thanks

[haughty barn]

For a reason

[unique cypress]

Make sure to connect both ports to the platform, and use the fastest belts you have for that

[haughty barn]

Aluminum is the second biggest bottleneck late game

Uranium doesn’t count

[fallow siren]

the biggest bottleneck in late game is my procrastination

i still need to finish my 12k/min aluminum factory

[jaunty locust]

which one is the biggest?

[haughty barn]

Samuel

[jaunty locust]

who tf is samuel

[haughty barn]

Third biggest

[jaunty locust]

thankss

[haughty barn]

SAM

[cerulean stratus]

I'm thinking on phase 2, and man there's so many choices

Rn, I'm thinking on rebuilding pretty much everything
Centralizing fused wire and steel screw production
And then copper sheets, iron plates, rips rotors and modular frames

[slow hawk]

#screenshots message @fresh geyser

Default compared to those 2, because diluted fuel makes 1 HOR = 2 units of fuel

Default uses 6 units of fuel
6 fuel / 2 = 3 units of HOR
5/3 = 1.67 turbofuel / HOR

Alt uses 4 units of HOR
4/5 = 0.8 turbofuel /HOR

[unique cypress]

turbo heavy fuel is an awful recipe

[slow hawk]

agreed

[unique cypress]

the only reason to use it is when making turbo ammo maybe

[crisp hazel]

Diluted fuel + nitro rocket fuel however

[proper valve]

Am i missing anything detrimental with my plan for my first Fuel power plant?

Also, any ideas how to loop in the priority merger? It just zeros everything out whenever i try, so atm, its in there for decoration haha

[unique cypress]

You don't need to make any canisters unless you're consuming them. DPF doesn't

[split sierra]

The canisters are a closed loop, no need to make any other than the initial buffer

just set up a couple refineries to fill a bin and shove them in the water packagers when you’re ready kickstart the factory

[cerulean stratus]

alrighty, I'm almost done with phase2, using the continuous spelev btw

so far so good, just missing auto wire at 1 per min and motors

[visual yarrow]

So i've been trying to break out of my comfort zone a bit by actually using manifolds, this save... it still kind of bothers me.

But i'm compromising on the other side.

What's confusing about it?

[vapid gorge]

just the Y of it. Easier to just clock your machines to do what you want them to do

[visual yarrow]

Not sure what you mean. They are clocked.

[vapid gorge]

put 12 on a belt
have a separate group of machines put 18 on a belt.

[visual yarrow]

Ahh, separate clockspeeds for the same group of machines making the same thing.

I did consider that.

[vapid gorge]

Selectively merge the machines that produce X ppm to go to the place you need them

[visual yarrow]

Yeah, I get the concept. Like I said, I did consider it as an option, but I decided to do this instead.

Y'know, I could, instead of having 3 assemblers at 80% each, have one at 200% and two at 20%...

Okay, I take it back, even for the purpose of a joke, this is actually horrifying to me.

[cerulean stratus]

One thing I started to do this run is grouping up the manifolds until I hit the belt limit

[visual yarrow]

As in, the throughput of an individual belt?

[cerulean stratus]

Yes.
So in case of steel, making steel until 270
And when I need more, I make another manifold above

[visual yarrow]

Ahhh, I understand what you mean. You can also do belt compressors. Those are kinda fun.

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah I'm trying to not do that as much this time

[visual yarrow]

I haven't tried them with priority mergers yet, but I think they might have a potential use case there.

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah priority mergers are perfect for it

[visual yarrow]

Ahhhh, so that's the comfort zone you're moving away from, gotcha.

[cerulean stratus]

I found that the manifold sizes would get the distorted between each other, and then I'd use the iron elsewhere and the whole system would start to get messy

[visual yarrow]

...I should probably automate crystal oscillators given that priority mergers use 'em and I have been using them a lot.

[cerulean stratus]

But I'm also trying to use the limiter mod, as it just makes me finally able to do what I want with logistics

[visual yarrow]

But i'm also in phase 5 and haven't automated HMFs or computers, so....

[cerulean stratus]

I just got it from crash sites

[visual yarrow]

I just craft a bunch when I inevitably get distracted by something.

On a different note, I am noticing that I extremely consistently set up automation for high-speed connectors much, much earlier than other things, and I have no idea why.

Like, I don't have a specific need for them that's any more important than the other things i'm neglecting.

[cerulean stratus]

I just try to automate everything

But man, for someone who beat this game like 5 times.

I only now realized just how much of a beast phase 2 is

[cerulean stratus]

Maybe they're just easier to do?
Are you using quartz or oil for them

[visual yarrow]

Neither.

Okay, I guess oil is technically involved.

[cerulean stratus]

Oh the plastic side

[visual yarrow]

But i'm using the byproduct silica from my initial aluminum plant I was otherwise sinking for it.

[cerulean stratus]

Plastic, quick wire and... Something

[visual yarrow]

Oil is only involved in the sense that i'm using the petroleum coke alumina solution alt.

[cerulean stratus]

So I'm guessing this is on the west coast?

[visual yarrow]

Kinda. It's next to the lake in the rocky desert.

[cerulean stratus]

The one with the huge amounts of coal nearby?

[visual yarrow]

Nope. There's actually not really any coal nearby at all.

Well, okay, there's some in the crater lakes or through the cave tunnel.

But i'm talking about this lake here.

[plucky tusk]

lol im building my everything factory in the same spot

[fervent latch]

its all connected to 2 nodes of oil, one normal and one impure with 3 power shards

it was working prior and now working

[vapid gorge]

ok first get rid of all buffers

they don't help and are quite possibly the cause. They can really wreck stability of the flow

[fervent latch]

but there is no flow before that

[vapid gorge]

still get rid of them

[fervent latch]

on the actual pipe line

[vapid gorge]

they aren't helping

is this 2x 600 pipes?

[fervent latch]

yes

they mk2 pipes

[vapid gorge]

it looks like you've only got 1 pipe out though here ?

[fervent latch]

yea

it wasnt a problem for last several hours

[vapid gorge]

ok well you can't move 1200 oil down 1 mk2 pipe

[vapid gorge]

buffers will at best do nothign
at worst cause or hide problems

[fervent latch]

the flowrate from the oil extractors to the base

there was flowrate for the last few ours from the extractors to the base and 30 mintues ago it just stalled

[vapid gorge]

how much oil pm does your system actually need to run?

[fervent latch]

good question

[vapid gorge]

🤦

[fervent latch]

its my first time playing this so im still learning how to do things ;<

[vapid gorge]

ok so is your goal to have this system running smoothly?

[fervent latch]

yea

it doesnt need to be perfect

[vapid gorge]

smoothly = perfect

if it's not perfect it'll stutter

like now

[fervent latch]

one of the 2 pipes started working ._.

i changed nothing

[vapid gorge]

stuttering systems do that

because it doesn't run smoothly

So are you happy to let it stutter? or do you want ti to run smoothly?

[fervent latch]

i just dont know why there isnt flow at all

[vapid gorge]

because it's stuttering backwards and stalling the oil extractor

you have to set up pipes in a way that it's easy for it to flow forward.

Pipes are NOT belts

and it doesn't sound like you even did the math on this

[fervent latch]

its straight shots f

[vapid gorge]

this mess affects flow

so

did you do the math on this system? or did you wing it?

[fervent latch]

winged it for the most part with math

[vapid gorge]

ok it has to be 0% winging , 100% math

[fervent latch]

i didnt do the right side

[vapid gorge]

what is your final desired output? it looks like turbo fuel or something?

[fervent latch]

turbo fuel and computers

[vapid gorge]

ok first - completely split up your power production from your factory. This is doubly important when you're not comfortable wit hthe basics

you need yoru power running smoothly

so how much turbo fuel did you want to make? and which recipes are you using?

[fervent latch]

so what im hearing is, just scrap the whole thing and retry

[vapid gorge]

Pretty much. But you need to know a few things before you retry

so - how much TF were you wanting to make, and which recipes were you wanting to use?

[fervent latch]

completely severed it and the flow rate is still 0

all there is the buffers

[vapid gorge]

there is no simple solution to this fix.
if there was I wouldn't have agreed about scrapping the whole thing

there's more problem areas than non problem areas

[fervent latch]

do i just replace all the pipes connecting it

[vapid gorge]

Friend. I'm trying to walk you through the basics of building this from scratch, because it'll be less work starting fresh , than trying to figure out this mess

[fervent latch]

im scratching the base but im talking about the pipes bringing the oil

[vapid gorge]

the pipes bringing in the oil are probably fine

you have slapped on tons of pumps

[crisp hazel]

Dumb question but is the factory turned on to burn the oil? The flow rate is zero because the pipe is completely full

[fervent latch]

the oil is getting used if thats the question

[crisp hazel]

Did you account for byproducts?

[fervent latch]

yea

[crisp hazel]

Mathematically?

Or did you guess?

[fervent latch]

they were getting used faster than making them

[crisp hazel]

Then yeah, start over and start way simpler

[vapid gorge]

Anyway, if when you want help let me know and tell me the recipes you were wanting to use for your TF and computers and how much you were wanting to make of each

I can't really do anything more until we both know the numbers youre working with

[fervent latch]

should i delete the pipes bringing the oil too

because it just says none now

[vapid gorge]

"I can't really do anything more until we both know the numbers youre working with"

[fervent latch]

that doesnt answer my question

[vapid gorge]

because you asked something unhelpful that wouldn't push forward to fixing your issue and you keep ignoring my basic questions, questions I'm asking in order to help you

I'm happy to help you, but atm you're wasting both our times and I'm not happy about that

I'm willing to spend my time helping you
I'm not willing to waste my time though

[fervent latch]

let me scrap the base first

before we upgraded our pipes that bring the oil to mk2, the oil was being brought to the bast and now when we upgraded them to mk2 there is no more oil being brought

[vapid gorge]

destroy everythign post the long pipes bringing it in

[fervent latch]

ok

its all destroyed

there is still nth

[slow hawk]

can you show the start?

[fervent latch]

yea give me a minute

[vapid gorge]

tell me the recipes you were wanting to use for your TF and computers and how much you were wanting to make of each
[1:04 PM]
I can't really do anything more until we both know the numbers youre working with

[fervent latch]

i dont think that is releavent to this pic of there is no oil being brought

[vapid gorge]

becaues the issue was almost certainly with the now destroyed system

you cannot tell if there's any flow in a pipe if it's not being consumed by something

so the expected flow here , would be zero

[crisp hazel]

I would, however, doublecheck that there aren’t any breaks in the line and that the oil extractors still have power

[vapid gorge]

it apparently used to work, probably just using stored up fluid

so it's unlikely there's an issue before hand

if it never worked, the first step woudl probably hve been checking for headlift along the path

[vapid gorge]

let me know what you're making and how when you're ready

[warm granite]

An MK5 belt would be much easier to work with than an MK2 pipe

Buuuut.... Okay though, I've been going hard into the packager. It's been such a beloved machine for my templates and logistics

[shut kettle]

how do you calculate the production rate of items in constructors, smelters, foundries, etc.?

[vapid gorge]

figure out how much of each recipe you are making, multiply by output

if you have 5 constructors making 15ppm? that's 75 ppm

[shut kettle]

what's that efficiency thing

[vapid gorge]

largely ignore it. Its suposed to show you uptime

it's not clear how accurate it is

if it says 100%? it's probably running at 100% but it could show lower and still be running fine

best way to tell is to stare at all the lights on the machine and make sure they don't flicker for like... 30 seconds

[shut kettle]

mine do flicker, is that a bottleneck?

[vapid gorge]

from green to yellow? it means either the output isn't getting cleared fast enough, or not enough input

what causes these things are a variety of issues.
maybe bad math
not enough throughput on the belts
not everything might be getting consumed so it may be backing up

[shut kettle]

i didn't do any math, just eyeballed it

[vapid gorge]

probably jsut sa little wonky then 🙂

just keep going forward

[shut kettle]

is 240 modular frames per hour a good start? im in tier 4

[vapid gorge]

4pm? it's fine. You might need more later especially whne you're making heavy modular frames

[shut kettle]

what's the meta to measure output?

in minecraft, we do it per hour

[vapid gorge]

recipes are shown per cycle and per minute

all the cycles are different so people just use pm

[shut kettle]

cool, good to know, thanks

[shut kettle]

so the right one is only getting one-thirds right?

[whole kestrel]

Hi guys, have someone find a way to limit the flow on a conveyor please? Like a valve but for conveyors?

[vapid gorge]

clock your machines to put on the right numbers

clocking is your most powerful logistic tool you got

[frosty owl]

I think the subject you're looking for is "load-balancing". There's plenty of content on that, but to answer your question shortly: yes, there are (many) ways to limit or control exactly what's on a belt.
Eg: using belt speeds, clocking machines, leveraging splitters' and mergers' mechanics etc...

[whole kestrel]

Okay thanks guys, the fact is that I just want to extract from chests some resources but I get your points! Thanks 🙂

[frosty owl]

Remember that you can approach that from different ways too 😉
Eg: one can extract items from the output of a container, or they could extract items from its input belt once that has started backing up... (if you have absolutely no idea how, it might be good to explore the MAM)
Note: I'm being vague to avoid spoilers. Do feel free to ask for details if you wish~

[whole kestrel]

Hmm your very intriguing!! 😁 I'll contact you if needed if you don't mind, but for now I'll search by myself! 😁Thanks a lot

[cerulean stratus]

there's mods for it

but they in general won't because it "kills" the challenge

one idea I have is thanks to priority mergers you can put in a "trash" resource, and then remove in

and that turns load balancing from adding and dividing into subtracting

ok, done some research onto phase 1
in northern forest in specific

so, we have 4 pure nodes, but with mk1 that's 240 iron and 120 copper
here's what I found

That you can have everything done without mk2, but you need to put copper almost everywhere you can

[dry dagger]

Just curious which website is this

[cerulean stratus]

Satisfactory Modeler on steam

[dry dagger]

Ohh thanks

[wind spade]

ah the classic unreadable output 😄

[vapid gorge]

or you could try something that actually makes the plan and is readable

[golden rampart]

my coal plants aren't getting enough water and i can't figure out why. i thought two water extractors at 75% clock would run 4 coal generators but they're at 100% clock and the generators keep shutting on and off from water needs. what am I missing?

[fallow siren]

from the pic, it looks like your water extractor on the 2nd left is backing up

did you also check the coal?

[vapid gorge]

this doesn't look placed right

[fallow siren]

looks like it

[vapid gorge]

like you cliped the pipe through the junction

[golden rampart]

thanks i'll re-place that section and see if it fixes it

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

some simple coal layouts btw. You can do 3:8 in really nice groups

[vapid gorge]

and in the future try to have the feed pipes be level with machine inputs or from above.
feeding future systems from below can create flow issues

[golden rampart]

thanks so much!

[wind spade]

@fresh geyser don't ask in screenshots, we can't answer there

As for your question, the arrow doesn't represent a belt, so there's no need to set belt tier (and I wouldn't recommend SCIM, as the planner there is pretty meh)

[cerulean stratus]

So I'm looking for something that makes my throughput more regular

If in one minute I'm making 0, and in another minute I'm making 200, any kind of throughput control won't work very well

[wind spade]

I don't think there's anything in the game that has this variable output?

unless you mean vehicle delivery

[haughty barn]

Geothermal plant

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah that's an option

I'm guessing the best option would be with prefilled buffers

[wind spade]

I don't think geothermal is relevant for "throughput control", the question was most likely about items/fluids

[wind spade]

most vehicles (apart from trains) imo don't need buffers, as the internal belt/station/machine buffers will be enough

[haughty barn]

I know :)

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah rn I'm using throughput limiter, but one of my ideas is adding X of a trash item to limit throughput

[outer hornet]

Guys does water pipes work similarly to manifold layout for splitters?

Like will the last couple of genarators have less water?

Should I install water pumps?

[thorn bane]

yes

[outer hornet]

F*

Can I fix it without repiping everything?

I need this to start working

[thorn bane]

wait what
no its working

[outer hornet]

I'm following 3:8 ratio

Not sure what I can do next to enhance the water flow

[wind spade]

yes, they work just like normal manifolds - meaning they will work at 100% capacity once filled

[wind spade]

are you pushing it all through mk1 pipe?

[thorn bane]

oh youre limited by 300/min

need 2 pipes

[outer hornet]

Yes but I'll underclock the extractors

unlocking the mk2 soon but I need 50 heavy frames

[thorn bane]

just do a third pipe for 3x 240/min instead of 2x 360/min (cause 360>300)

[outer hornet]

On conveyers we used to put input material directly into smetlers or so to expediate the spin up process, how can I do this here with water?

[thorn bane]

underclock to 1% or remove power access
but thats not the problem here

[outer hornet]

Which? Last or first?

You meant the coal generators right?

Sorry if I'm not catching

[thorn bane]

ye thats how you "prefill" the coal generators with water

[outer hornet]

Got it

So I underclock the ones I need to prefill faster

Can I just merge last generator pipe with the first of the second group?

Will this help?

[outer hornet]

Connect**

[thorn bane]

you can interconnect them yes

[outer hornet]

Thank u bud

[fresh geyser]

Mb, won't do that again

[jaunty locust]

To the guys that told me about the buffer, I love yall

[nova vortex]

can someone help me rq?

[crisp hazel]

Hard to tell, whats up?

[nova vortex]

i think my maths right but if im making 45 rebar a min and im making it into stun rebar does that mean i need 4 assemblers?

[unique cypress]

1 assembler consumes 10, 4 would consume 40

Unless you overclock

[crisp hazel]

Youd need 5 or overclocking of 1

[nova vortex]

no over clock so i do need 4 assembler

[unique cypress]

What do you even need this much rebar for

[crisp hazel]

If you dont overclock you need 5 assemblers

[nova vortex]

i like making stuff that is absaulty useless and overkill

[unique cypress]

4 would consume 40. If you're trying to consume 45, you need 5

[nova vortex]

ok thank you

[wind spade]

but also 5 will have capacity to do 50, so you either have to underclock one to 50% or it will only work at 50% efficiency

[nova vortex]

Its okay im alr making 195 normal rebar a min and 40 stun rebar a min

[dusky dust]

heh; if you time your reloads+firing perfectly the max theoretical fire rate of rebar is a little over 30/min. :)

In general you're never going to need more than like a single machine making any given ammo type. Even if you go through it quickly in bursts, all the time you spend not firing the weapon means you're accumulating more and more in the backlog

[nova vortex]

yeah i know its complete over kill but thats what i like to build is stupid and overkill stuff

[dusky dust]

I do kind of wish that Iron Rebar was also a building material; would make a lot of sense to use it for pillars and such

[nova vortex]

and concrete

[quasi kindle]

except for backflow, pretty much yes

[outer hornet]

Guys am I the only one who didn't enjoy using modular load balancers mod?

It feels like an actual cheat

Like I just divided the load of one conveyer over 24

[wind spade]

eh, manifolds are basically the same thing

[outer hornet]

But it has no disavatanges

[cerulean stratus]

I would argue why does it need disadvantages

but for me this is more about getting the thing I need from one place to another, on the right numbers

but honestly, I think this is satisfactory's greatest strength, just how versatile it is

And then you fight with others over what this game is about

[visual ocean]

What should i have prepared before moving into tier 7?

[cerulean stratus]

Some say it's about perfect ratios, others about making beautiful factories

[cerulean stratus]

heavy modular frames, computers, crystal oscillators

[visual ocean]

Any specific amount i should aim for?

[cerulean stratus]

here's the thing, if you don't have these things yet, you will basically be forced to have them

[visual ocean]

I currently have 1 100% efficient manufacturer of each

[cerulean stratus]

so you will end up doing regardless, but the point is don't feel like you're falling behind on your requirements

[cerulean stratus]

have 1 manufacturer for yourself, but you need to make more for others

[visual ocean]

Others? what u mean by that

[cerulean stratus]

have 1 manufacturer for yourself, but if now you need more crystal oscillators for a new part, what will you do?

or rather, when do you deal with it, now or later?

but hey 1 100% efficient manufacturer for each is a really good sign

[visual ocean]

Yeah, i kinda started those high tier 6 stuff today. I kinda grouped all materials, made a logistic floor and made a manufacturer for each high tier comp

[cerulean stratus]

also, sam fluctuators, you can finally automate those

[visual ocean]

I have a phase 2 factory still going. A computer factory. An encased factory and two refineries working for palstic, rubber a hella power. Then the basic stuff is in the main base but it's bits and bobs

[visual ocean]

Those i have loads. I found Sam early. Once i touched that i had around 3 big crates full

[cerulean stratus]

I feel like you're on a really good track

[cerulean stratus]

sam fluctuators, not reanimated sam

[visual ocean]

Idk. I feel i could do much more if i didnt hate the bugs with the trains

[cerulean stratus]

still, tier 7 isn't the hard part

[visual ocean]

My factory looks like crap tho haha

[cerulean stratus]

tier 7 is just "look at what aluminum looks like and what you can do with it"

[cerulean stratus]

eh, nobody had a good factory the first time around

and those who did haven't finished the game yet

[visual ocean]

got one more box

[cerulean stratus]

"hey guys I've been playing since update 4 and I have 1200 hours on this save. I finally reached phase 4!"

[cerulean stratus]

yeah you're ready

tier 7 isn't the scary one though

it's the next ones

[visual ocean]

then i just need to wait for the phase 3 parts to finish

1 a min is crazy

[cerulean stratus]

of adaptive control units?

[visual ocean]

and the modular engines

[cerulean stratus]

bro even today I look at the recipe and it STILL scares me

smart plating makes sense, motors is ok, rubber is easy

[visual ocean]

motors are the slower of the 3 for me but Im fine on it

[cerulean stratus]

but you want me to put
heavy modular frames, computers, automated wiring, and circuit boards? It's REALLY hard to make them all in the same place

and it's not just a bit of automated wiring, it wants like 200 cable per minute

[visual ocean]

Im making computers close to a oil plant, which happens to be in the middle of the way to the place im doing those. So one train is helping out

[cerulean stratus]

btw guys, which do you prefer?

[visual ocean]

then i have everything in the abse going on sushi belts into their storage (also sinks to make sure it never stops) adn a "beautiful"logistics mess feeding 6 manufacturers

[cerulean stratus]

in update 8, we needed to do like 4000 adaptive control units for phase 4

[visual ocean]

I'd go for second no? At least you can use the fuel to get more power, right?

[cerulean stratus]

actually this is a bit interesting

because the assembler is a lot less machines... in theory

[visual ocean]

Isnt this the recipe there?

[wind spade]

hard to say, as modeller is impossible to read nicely

[haughty barn]

Iron wire to cable

[cerulean stratus]

it is

i think it's an absolute banger recipe

[cerulean stratus]

well, if I'm using iron alloy and I'm mostly trying to put something up quick, it's perfectly ok

If I'm trying to make assembly director systems and it needs big amounts of cable, I'm mass manufacturing that thing

[cerulean stratus]

just adding a bit of caterium makes loads of wire
thing is, caterium likes being around copper, for ai limiters and fused quickwire

especially when it's about high speed connectors and their 210 quickwire per minute

[thorn bane]

eyyyyyy fused wire
best wire recipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fierce ruin]

I love spending hours planning a factory and then quitting the game for three months after I repeatedly fail to build it in a way that I think looks nice :3

[crimson moat]

If i have a 1200 belt loaded with 600 of something, can i just split it like a manifold and take 1x60 mk.1 belt out of each splitter until i have 10x60? Will that fill all of the belts without gaps?

[fallow siren]

it should, as long as the split goes more than 60, it will force the splitting into 60 for mk1

the last 2 splits should be 120 in total so that is 60 and 60

[frosty owl]

I would use Smarter splitters just to make sure ^^

[thorn bane]

isnt there some uneven mks in a splitter shenanigans that could happen?

or was that only mergers
there was something freaky going on

[frosty owl]

Yeah, thus using smart splitters and overflow to avoid any possible shenanigans

It can surely work using the right MKs, but I'd rather not have to discover that 😅

[oblique hollow]

Thanks for confirming that coated is perfectly mid - perfect as it is

[frosty owl]

Sir, this is a #math-and-meta...

[charred gulch]

I'm not sure this is the right way to ask this, but does anyone know a way to make an overflow system without smart splitters?

[fallow siren]

well you can't

splitter is using round robin

[unique cypress]

You can kinda make one. Make a 1:n ratio splitter, with n being very high

The vast majority of items will go to the output with the higher ratio, but they'll overflow to the lower ratio if the high ratio output is full

But it's not true overflow. However high n is, 1/nth will go to the lower ratio output

[charred gulch]

I think that's what I'm trying to do at this point, but I did not give myself enough space to do all that so some redesigning is needed

Minor home improvement

[fallow siren]

at that point why not just slap smart splitter, you can unlock them very early

[charred gulch]

Because I am very early. I'm automating rotors currently.

[fallow siren]

smart splitter is as early as copper sheets

[charred gulch]

From what? I don't see it in any of the tiers

[fallow siren]

you unlock them in MAM

go find some caterium and research the tree

MAM is very important, lots of useful stuff to help your progression

[main sand]

Rocket fuel power better than nucler?

[noble timber]

In terms of what?

[main sand]

Less resources needed and easier to make

[noble timber]

It’s less complex but you will not make anywhere near as much power

[main sand]

Well i just made 45gw with 330 cruide oil so idk

[noble timber]

A maxed out uranium and plutonium build will net you over 1 TW

[main sand]

No i dont need over 200gw i think for my case its better

I can somersloop 3 blender to make double rocket fuel

[heady vine]

yeah, but at what cost?

[noble timber]

Also you are better off just using turbo fuel over rocket fuel for power plants

[main sand]

No i just need nitrogen to make rocket fuel

[noble timber]

Ignore me lol my brain wasn’t thinking there

Rocket is slightly better at the expensive of nitrogen

[main sand]

If u use nitrogen i can make alost double fuel generators

[noble timber]

A more complex production loop, however you also save oil and sulfur which can be used elsewhere

If you have enough plastic and rubber in your world and don’t need to huge amount of power nuclear can provide then don’t bother with it

[heady vine]

how much more complex?

a couple magnitudes. longer to build. more twisted logistics too

[noble timber]

I wouldn’t say so. Uranium fuel rods are actually pretty simple, things only really ramp up on the plutonium side of things

[main sand]

Yea but i have to sink the plutonium fuel rods😢

[noble timber]

Or burn them

And then do ficsonium or store the plut waste

[main sand]

I didnt unlock fisconium

[noble timber]

So then just store the waste in some cave

[main sand]

Bad idea ngl

[noble timber]

Not really

[heady vine]

turbofuel needs what? sulfur, oil, basically. that's it
uranium needs iron, copper, sulfur, nitrogen, oil, catherium...
and factory has many many more connections

[noble timber]

You can eliminate caterium with the right alts

Rocket fuel needs nitrogen, sulfur, coal, and oil 🤷‍♂️

[main sand]

It need 300 nitrogen and 225 sulfir not a big deal for 90gw

[noble timber]

It’s a more complex production loop but in the end you get lots more power

[unique cypress]

Well, "lots more power" is a meaningless sentence without specifying more power per what

Because as is, I'd assume that means more power possible from the resources available on the map (i.e. the ceiling)

And in that case, I'm pretty sure that's false

Or at least in max power builds, rocket fuel has a bigger contribution

[wind spade]

Storing waste is completely fine, even long-term

[heady vine]

yeah, just make a BP of storage and place enough of it for couple years of nonstop play

[burnt folio]

so rocket fuel is a gas, but does it still follow the normal priority systems you can do with water?

[vapid gorge]

you can't do VIPs if that's what you're asking. Or pipe humps to over flow

[burnt folio]

yeah I was meaning these...

is there any way to make it give priority to certaint areas?

[frosty owl]

It's been a while, but for me a "first come first served" approached worked well enough.
As in: the consumer closest to the source of fluid would get the most/all until full, leaving the remainder for whoever is further down the line

[vapid gorge]

no

[vapid gorge]

if you want X amount of fuel split to somewhere else eather clock a machine to produce X fuel pm to a specific spot, or do a packager unpackager system

[unique cypress]

Why do you even need a priority for RF?

I've ran into a few situations where I could've used it if it existed, but not a single one where it was the simplest solution

[soft geyser]

How many constructors should my factory have with 2 limestone mines?

[unique cypress]

Depends on purity, miner tier and clock speed

[vapid gorge]

do the math 🙂

[unique cypress]

Add up how much limestone you have, divide by the consumption of 1 constructor, round up

[vapid gorge]

how much are you outputing, how much do the recipoes need?

[soft geyser]

Damn I'm looking at the chat and I'm way out of my league lmao

[vapid gorge]

it's just a bad habit trying to math things out by numbers of machines

recipes are different , miner outputs are different, and you can alwasy clock machines to use different amounts

[burnt folio]

to make sure it first feeds my generators and only after will go to the packagers

[unique cypress]

Yeah, it's best to do math on raw item/min numbers, then convert to machine counts

[unique cypress]

Make separate productions for each

[vapid gorge]

just clock a machine to feed the packager then

[soft geyser]

Ok, what fields of math are required for me to become a pro at this, basic algebra or anything more complex?

[vapid gorge]

addition, multiplicatin. Division

[unique cypress]

It's all basic math, just a lot of it

[vapid gorge]

your generators will always use the same amount per min right? so just dedicate a portion to them, and a portion to packagers

[soft geyser]

Ahhh. Thank God. Thanks, I'll get out of your guys hair.

[burnt folio]

I mean every machine is clocked perfectly to perfectly feed eachoter, same will be happening for the packagers/generators

[vapid gorge]

then you don't need an overflow right?

[vapid gorge]

you're not in anyone's way 🙂

you're just not the first to ask about machine ratios xD

[burnt folio]

I've used them in the past to make sure that my gens were getting priority

[vapid gorge]

but if everything is clocked and set up perfectly , why would you ever need that?

[burnt folio]

fluid mechanics weird at times

[frosty owl]

If your numbers are correct, the system will just reach equilibrium after a while. If you wish to speed that up, while keeping the generators running, you could turn off the Packager until the Generators are full of Fuel ^^

[vapid gorge]

with your position you could then argue you want a priority system between every generator to make sure hte one before it got priority over it. Don't need it. Doesn't benefit you

[burnt folio]

alright

for reference, this is what my rocket fuel factory looks like ( x3, as it's seperated into 3 main towers with smaller fuel gen towers around it )

[vapid gorge]

thats... fairly meaningless. modeler images are a pain to anyone who isn't the one that crafted them. No lables or names or anything.

I'm sure it's perfectly readable to you, I would hope.

[frosty owl]

The output kinda doesn't fit in one pipe though 😅

[burnt folio]

well most of that image is just so I knew what calculations I had to do for the perfect OC's, the end product is the only thing I thought was important for here

[vapid gorge]

just say how much you're making then?

[burnt folio]

yup, gonna be multiple pipes

[burnt folio]

740,74 rounded down

[vapid gorge]

2 pipes should do yeah. Makes flow easier on how you set it up

[frosty owl]

Given how little each Packager takes, I think you can just connect everything without worrying about priority ^^
If you really want to keep the generators running all the time, turning off the Packagers until they fill should suffice

[burnt folio]

I mean it's either 2x Mk2 pipes or 4x Mk1 pipes, kinda tempted for the 4x Mk1 but that's just from an aesthetic point

[noble timber]

Taking 300 oil to give 45 gw, using all the oil on the map purely for RF (which is unrealistic) gives you just shy of 500 GW. Uranium + Plutonium will give you over 1000 GW. I’ve not ever ran numbers on rocket fuel so not sure if that can be improved but I do not see there being a 2x improvement on that

[unique cypress]

max RF gives 3 TW

1.8 if you exclude SAM

and that's without sloops either

max uranium without sloops or SAM gives 1.19 TW, and that's if you store plut waste

[frosty owl]

But at the same time, there's lots one can do with 1.19 TW and no Uranium, while not so much with 1.8 TW and no Oil ^^

[daring spindle]

guys im making 192 uranium fuel rods per minute but how am i gonna do with the uranium waste😭

[brisk urchin]

192?

with the 2100 uranium on the map there is only 50,4 possible

are you slooping the production?

[daring spindle]

i have a mod where u can craft sloops

i used it on everything

[brisk urchin]

same lol

[daring spindle]

haha

[visual ocean]

Is this decent for aluminium start?
I only have one recipe. Should i look for another?
Also i already gathered all the resrources next to a water spot

[brisk urchin]

i just dont expect that instandly

[brisk urchin]

i wouldnt do alcad casing tbh

but sure if you got enough copper

[daring spindle]

well i have 64 manufacturers and all of them are making 3 rods per minute

[visual ocean]

Are those not necessary? I could probably tweak it to get more sheet instead of casing

[bitter grail]

Make plutonium rods to sink or make a billion storage containers

[daring spindle]

i think i like the plutonium rod idea more than the storage one but im pretty sure its gonna use a crazy amount of ressources

[bitter grail]

You’ve put yourself in this hole, now you must figure out how to get out of it 😆

[daring spindle]

ahhhhhh😂

[brisk urchin]

oh and dont try to get out with ficsonium

all the oil on the map isnt enough to convert all the uranium on the map to ficsonium

[daring spindle]

this is my first time dealing with uranium ):

[brisk urchin]

same

and ive calculated some stuff for nearly 1 1/2 hours

[daring spindle]

i calculated that i will get 2400 uranium waste per minute

[brisk urchin]

2520

converted to 22,4 plutonium rods

[daring spindle]

oh thx

which recipe should i use ? for the plutonium rods?

[brisk urchin]

if you are dedicated enough then the unit one

[unique cypress]

192 uranium rods is 9600 waste/min

[brisk urchin]

if u wna save some resorces then just the normal

[daring spindle]

they burn 0.5 per min with full overclock

[brisk urchin]

ye full overclock is good bc of the 600 water input

[daring spindle]

yeah

[brisk urchin]

keeps things organised

[daring spindle]

oh god i see ill need 7.1k caterium 9k coal 11 k copper😩

[brisk urchin]

yep

a tip

[daring spindle]

i think the storage gotta do it for now xd

[brisk urchin]

only get into it with mk 6 belts and automated ion filters

[unique cypress]

Have fun placing a new container every 2.5 minutes

[brisk urchin]

LMAO

[daring spindle]

i think im just gonna reduce everything to 60 rods per min xd

[brisk urchin]

or try to sink the plutoniun

[daring spindle]

i will try

i dont have anything else left to do on this map

[brisk urchin]

factory for every item there is?

[daring spindle]

i work with modular factorys

i like to have trains going everywhere

[brisk urchin]

same, my plan is transporting parts to factories who ned it for other parts

[daring spindle]

exactly

[digital crow]

Best way on getting smart plating (left) over to where I want to set up a Modular Engine Factory? (right)

[crisp hazel]

Conveyor for that short of a distance

[daring spindle]

this is absurd i still need 3 more of those batterys and theyre stacked so its 12 a battery

[visual ocean]

Does this type of elevation require a pump?

[daring spindle]

no

[frosty owl]

Modded questions are best asked in the Modding server~

[unborn dome]

How do people prefer to do electromagnetic control rods? I'd think it'd be best to do them at the factory doing the fuel rods, but it seems like the number of places on the map that have all the nearby resource nodes for ECRs is pretty few, so maybe droning in stators and AI limiters from elsewhere?

[prisma kraken]

they're really nasty to make, but i find that all-iron stators + plastic ail's is the best way

if you have the extra caterium, iron pipe with quickwire stator also can be used for the stators, but with caterium, i often find that you have just enough in a region for a project and adding in the extra for qw stator blows you over budget

[unborn dome]

I'd been considering that spot in the north-western dune desert with the pure caterium for quickwire stators, but not a great place for a fuel rod factory there either.

[prisma kraken]

in general, caterium/quickwire is kind of annoying. there isn't a really great way of transporting it and there's often just enough in a biome to do one thing but not two

[unborn dome]

Yeah, my supercomputers-and-RCU factory is using all three of the caterium nodes in that northern swamp cave

[frosty owl]

Transporting the Ingots is pretty compact...

[prisma kraken]

that's where i did my cb's & ail's as a big burly make-enough-for-everything else build with all the cat in DD moved in by train and some of the copper trucked in

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but pure (or leached) cat ingots take a lot of space to make and water, so really moving the ore tends to be less efficient but more viable

[nova vortex]

im tryna make adaptive control units. and was wondering if 480 iron a min is enough for everythhing to run smoothly

[unborn dome]

Put it into the planner: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[nova vortex]

thats incredibly overwelming

[unborn dome]

Well your question has a lot of nuance that we're not going to be able to answer

[nova vortex]

oh okay my bad ill try and figure it out

[devout ingot]

cause its complicated to make them lmao

[nova vortex]

it says the total buildings i need is 6.3k I DONT HAVE THAT MANY IN MY WHOLE WORLD

[oblique hollow]

Adaptive control units need heavy modular frames and if you did them before you KNOW they are expensive

[nova vortex]

iv done those before

[unborn dome]

What number did you set as your ACU output?

[nova vortex]

i didnt touch anything i just clicked over view

[unborn dome]

Well you have to tell it what number of items you want to output

Above that section you sent

[nova vortex]

ohh

[unborn dome]

Oh, you did. 100 ACU/min is massive

[oblique hollow]

that planner is currently making 100/min ACUs

i doubt you even make 100/min HMF

[nova vortex]

whats a good amount for doing the space thing

[nova vortex]

HMF?

[unborn dome]

I'm making literally 1 ACU/min lol

[oblique hollow]

heavy modular frame

[nova vortex]

oh yeah i dont make many of those

[oblique hollow]

what you JUST said you made some before

do you mean you just handcrafted some

[unborn dome]

This is a chunk of a plan for a bigger factory, but that's all it needs for 1 ACU/min, with HMF, high-speed connectors, plastic, and computers coming from other factories (and steel pipe being made on-site, but it's higher up in the diagram).

[nova vortex]

no i have a factory for them im not making a ton of them

[oblique hollow]

1/min heavy modular frame per 1/min Adaptive control unit

[nova vortex]

So should i bring the parts to this thing or make everything from scratch?

[unborn dome]

Up to you tbh, depends on what you've already got a surplus of. It's much easier to just transport HMFs and computers and whatnot if you're already making them.

HMFs in particular, since their production chain is quite complex.

[nova vortex]

Okay bc im alr making everything for it

[unborn dome]

That's my HMF factory if you're interested - the green boxes are all output to either droneports, dimensional depot, or both.

[nova vortex]

Droneports? Dimensional deport?

[unborn dome]

Oh maybe you're not there yet 😅

Well, you'd have access to the dimensional depot by researching mercer spheres in the MAM I think

It's like a remote inventory, super convenient

[nova vortex]

Ohhh

Yeah no dont got it

[unborn dome]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Dimensional_Depot_Uploader

Highly recommended

[nova vortex]

Is it hard to get?

And whats the point of it?

[unborn dome]

You just need to research mercer spheres in the MAM

It's a remote inventory system that factories can send items into, and you can pull out of from anywhere

[nova vortex]

So i dont have to run a 3 thound long belt?

[unborn dome]

Factories can't pull items out of it, only insert into it. It's only for player use.

[nova vortex]

AWHH MANN

[unborn dome]

If you're running belts that far, you'll want trucks or trains instead (or drones later in the game)

[nova vortex]

i have a train in the air to move my plastic and rubber

[frosty owl]

I just do 1 machine for each part ^^
Then sometimes I may end up slooping some of them to feed the production for the next phase

The input/output numbers work out nicely from one phase to the next iirc

[nova vortex]

Ohh okay bet

Whats iirc

[frosty owl]

If I Recall Correctly

[nova vortex]

Mmm

[crimson moat]

Well, the problem is that i have a whooooole bunch of stuff that i want to feed evenly, but there are 10 of them and not 12 because of a whole bunch of other reasons which are more difficult to tackle than the belt split. So if i have to, i will just do a 1:5 splitter.

[frosty owl]

Example: smart plating (1 machine at 100%) goes at 2/min. Modular engines (1 machine at 100%) need exactly 2 smart plating/min. And so on

[frosty owl]

Why not just use smart splitters to ensure each output gets the exact amount? (your inputs matched belt speed, right?)
Is there some issue or limitation in using them?

[crimson moat]

Smart splitters aren't valves, they don't limit throughput

if i smart split onto a 1200 belt then 100% of my stuff will go that way.

[frosty owl]

No, I meant as the outputs of the manifold. You asked if you could just have MK1 belts branching off to avoid having to do any ulterior balancing, right?

[crimson moat]

yeah

[frosty owl]

What concerned me was that using normal splitters that could possibly be problematic, while smart splitters should ensure full MK1 outputs without any headache

[crimson moat]

ahh because smart splitters can send 100% one way if the slower belt can accept it

rather than round robin, i get ya

[frosty owl]

If the manifold has an "end" (ie: it doesn't keep going to other places), then using normal splitters is fine too.
After all, in that case, the manifold can only output up to 60x(number of MK1 outputs)

[coarse forge]

whats the best way to carry large amounts of one item? i mean LARGE like all iron from all the map.

[noble timber]

Trains

[wind spade]

trains, but why would you want to do that 😄

[main thicket]

guys i need help. it says signal is looping into its self. whats wrong here? path at every entrance and block at every exit

[wind spade]

the color is same on both sides, classic 1.1 bug, rebuild signals/tracks

[main thicket]

alright

yeah i rebuild every signal and it fixed it thanks

[noble timber]

It’s such an annoying bug, had me thinking my train logic was fucked

[main thicket]

yeah

[crimson moat]

I've successfully built a recycler module that can build any mixture of 400 plastic, 400 rubber and 6GW of fuel power without any user intervention (they share a fuel input).

this is pretty awesome because in the midgame you can slap down 10 of these and only later decide if you want output to be rubber or plastic, it's as simple as just.. make stuff flow off the plastic belt and that amount of plastic will be replaced. Want rubber? Connect the rubber output belt instead. Neither right now, or not all 400/400? > overflow junction sends the fuel to generators.

The generator part is mostly just getting fancy since they won't help that much practically 😛

In the far future i might redirect those overflow pipes to rocket / ionized fuel

[frosty owl]

Sounds much better than my old system, using overflow fuel to make recycled Plubber so the less power I used the more Plubber I had (very logical, really...) . This was back when generators didn't always run at maximum power

[visual ocean]

I'm using 3 smelters for the copper. How am I going to even do this split?

[fallow siren]

manifold

[visual ocean]

Well, that can work. Never thought about manifolds across 2 productions but thank you

[vapid gorge]

You could also clock two groups of machines to make those two amounts and not merge them in the first place

Clocking is your most powerful tool

[visual ocean]

Ended up with a manifold. The right machines is at 85% wfficiency, which is because is the last on the copper line (forgot to upgrade to miner 2. And i have 2 machines at 99% efficiency. I dont know where that 1% is tbf

[vapid gorge]

ignore the efficiencies. Manifolds spin up over time

[visual ocean]

I do notice that this setup is gonna clog up really quick, specially in the aluminum ingots part

[vapid gorge]

why is it going to clog?

[visual ocean]

i believe because i just use mk4 for all of it

[vapid gorge]

as long as a manifold has enough parts per min, and a fast enouigh belt, it'll work

[visual ocean]

i do have a sink for end product tho

yeah those assemblers with be 100 aluminium and copper ingots constantly in a min or 2

Pretty happy with how it turned out. I thought it was going to be a crazy mess, but it's one of the cleanest factories i made to be fair

[visual ocean]

Is it worth to go and automate turbofuel? I already have fuel for days from one crude factory. Im only using for jetpack and some trucks. I also got the hoverpack now. Will i need it further down the line?

[vapid gorge]

turbo fuel, and every other fuel past diluted fuel, is essentially just converting other resources to more oil.
So in this instance you're turning coal and sulfur into more oil, since you can always just make more diluted fuel somewhere else

whether this is 'worth it' to you is up to you. I tend to just make more fuel and then go nuclear.

[visual ocean]

i dont feel the need for it to be fair since I have loads of normal fuel and it's handy to get those leftovers to the generators. I could see the benefit but i placed the factory at the beach on the left side and i believe there is no coal there to do the compacted coal needed

[vapid gorge]

there's like... 1 spot on the map where oil sulfur and coal are next to each other and it's not that much coal and sulfur.

[gloomy gyro]

i automated turbo fuel and about to automate the one after that

[somber ivy]

How do you handle the variable power consumption of particle accelerators with tier 9 recipes? Because of their quick cycle time, for example 2 seconds for producing diamonds.

As I see either you massively underclock each building to give the power storages time to work.

Or massively stack up on power storages. Using diamond recipe as example: 2,5 storages for the variance of power consumption, multiplied by 30 because the recipe cycles 30 times per minute. Meaning 75 power storages per accelerator.

Or always assume the maximum power consumption when calculating power demand.

[unique cypress]

I always keep my production at least 20% above my max consumption

[vapid gorge]

power storages are a solution. Or just make a ton of power and don't worry about it

[unique cypress]

Guarantees I don't get blackouts, ever, and I don't have to keep tabs on power storage

[vapid gorge]

honestly PAs don't have that high a point and if you're using duping mechanics on them ... well, deal with the consequences you create

How much Aluminium are you making and with which recipoes?

[wet vigil]

Basic recipie, i have 480 bauxit /min, 480 coal max.

i have set up 5 rafinery for the future 600/min, for eatch recipie. (a bit over kill on the alluminum scraps i think).

120x4 (or 5 later) alumine per min. that need 180 water.

[wind spade]

just make enough power

[wet vigil]

@vapid gorge

[haughty barn]

Do you all prefer default scrap, instant scrap, or electrode scrap?

Just wondering

[wet vigil]

?

[unique cypress]

Sloppy + electrode + pure. Never anything else

[haughty barn]

Me too

Nice 1:1 bauxite to scrap

[unique cypress]

1:2 bauxite to scrap, 1:1 bauxite to ingots

But I get what you mean

[haughty barn]

Oops

[unique cypress]

Default ingots gives like 3:4, but it's almost never worth the extra silica

[haughty barn]

I used the resin from coke to make fabric for my dimensional depot

[haughty barn]

Yeah

[vapid gorge]

sorry got disctracted

[wet vigil]

its ok

[vapid gorge]

ok heres the plan

so it looks like you need 480 water pm fresh, and a refinery doing solution using 240 water pm

have them in 2 groiups like this

[wet vigil]

i just ended up puting a valve that introduce 60 water per minute into the recycled water XD

[vapid gorge]

it's not a reliable solution

direct feeding is essentially your worst option

[wet vigil]

i have 2 on direct feeding, 2 on recycled water.
it shoudln't cause me problem

[vapid gorge]

I mean gl with it. but again, super unreliable

[wet vigil]

i will see if my water tank fill up or stay at 20 ish water in an hours LOL

[unique cypress]

If my experience with valve+tank aluminium setups is anything to go by, it'll break in a few dozen hours

[haughty barn]

I use just enough water and recycle any unused aluminum to avoid deadlocks

[crisp hazel]

I use the priority pipe merger, works every time

[unique cypress]

Same

[noble timber]

That's kinda my point. It's unrealistic to use the entire maps supply of oil for power

[main thicket]

is there any kind of way for elevators to be more than 196 meters? im trying to build a skyscraper and the limit is 196 so now i have to build multiple to reach the top

[vapid gorge]

multiple

[visual yarrow]

So this is a train thing i've been testing. The idea is that the same station (yellow) can supply two trains going to different locations. The green is a waiting block that the other train can wait at if the station is occupied. Red is the path signal-controlled junction block- I tested it, and trains that are heading from the bottom left to the top right can reserve a path and pass through the junction even if there's a train waiting.

In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have taken the screenshot at night.

And for the record, the reason it ended up like this is because I had already built that fun beam scaffolding before I decided I wanted to have another train use the same station.

[visual yarrow]

I have been considering a fluid recycling system that uses packagers and priority mergers, lately.

[unique cypress]

if you don't mind the size that'll take up, it's not a terrible idea

[visual yarrow]

I think it's possible. I've actually done something very similar before, prior to priority mergers.

Though in that case, the whole idea there was that I had water, alumina solution, and sulfuric acid being shuffled around with a lot of interconnected fluid systems. The surprising part was that it worked.

Though I did have to use industrial storage containers in slightly unholy ways to ensure that nothing would have problems due to running out of empty containers or not having space to output them.

While also having more total throughput in the system than a MK.5 belt could handle... I think I found that as long as I ensured that there was a very precise number of canisters in the system, the buffers wouldn't cause issues even when using both inputs and outputs, like a pseudo-balancer. The trick was to make sure there were enough canisters to prevent the output belts from doing their weird priority thing, while also making sure there weren't so many that the return belts backed up.

[frosty owl]

System has to be full, but not too full

[visual yarrow]

Of course, the only reasons i'm even considering such a system, other than just for the sake of doing something interesting, is because i've stopped finding VIP junctions to be as reliable as they used to be.

My current save's first aluminum setup, I actually just ended up dealing with the byproduct water via wet concrete and sinking it, despite it making me feel unclean inside.

For some reason, it did not occur to me to use that as my primary source of depot concrete instead of the literal single constructor I had been previously relying on, not for a long while.

[visual yarrow]

Are ya winning, son?

[forest sky]

no im dying a horrible death

[forest sky]

[visual yarrow]

What exactly are you trying to do, if I may ask?

Other than cause yourself pain, as that's fairly self-evident.

[forest sky]

the last step

residual loop

gotta go slug hunting now

[visual yarrow]

If it helps, I have a specific ratio I use for plastic and rubber that I find... uh, helps.

[forest sky]

yeah i might delete the petrolium coke later

can you help plz

[visual yarrow]

Well, I say ratio, since it's 5 rubber:4 plastic, but it's more about doing this

Which is to say, the quantity of... I am having a hard time getting my thoughts into coherent words. One moment.

[unique cypress]

Nah, the recycling loop self-regulates if properly built. Any ratio works as well as any other

[visual yarrow]

The difference between the final rubber and plastic output is identical to the residual rubber made from the polymer resin. There we go.

[forest sky]

vc?

[visual yarrow]

But otherwise, I like having pairs of recycled rubber/plastic refineries.

I might even have a screenshot of one of the setups i've done in this way..

[forest sky]

😭

[visual yarrow]

Okay, this is what I was thinking of, but I think I took the screenshot less for the refinery setup and more for the decor...

[forest sky]

mine is much much larger scale

[visual yarrow]

Yeah, but that's why paired refineries are fantastic.

[unique cypress]

I told you like 3 times already to make smaller setups that are all <1 belt each. Then the scale doesn't matter. Just repeat the same thing over and over

[visual yarrow]

Since each of them provides half of it's output to it's partner, and the rest is sent to the output belt(s), you can scale it up pretty much however you want.

[unique cypress]

That assumes you have an equal number of both refineries

[visual yarrow]

You're thinking of it backwards.

My point is to not try to precisely calculate exact amounts of rubber and plastic, and deliberately make an equal number.

[unique cypress]

That's a lot of unnecessary machines if you need a different ratio

[forest sky]

it was origanally ment for super conputers

[visual yarrow]

Let me put it this way.

In the same way that you can take the entire output of a miner, smelt it somewhere, and use it in various places, plastic and rubber works well as a bulk resource.

They're both used extensively in various useful alternates, so having a surplus of either is a good thing.

[forest sky]

so i should just do equal parts regardless

[visual yarrow]

Well, that's just my suggestion. You're free to do whatever you like.

[forest sky]

soooo uhh slug hunting anyone?

[visual yarrow]

I don't think i've gone deliberately slug hunting in... years. I kind of just start wandering around and end up with so many of them in the process.

[forest sky]

duty calls

[visual ocean]

Can pumps be stacked on pipes? Is it worth?
I'm trying to get fluid up 45 meters and it 's pumping around 250-300 out of 600

[unique cypress]

A pump sets head lift to what it says, not adds

If you put 2 pumps one after another, the first one is doing nothing

[visual ocean]

i have a pipe going up above my builds, doing like a little oil tower. And then on top i split into 2 pipes going down.
The upwards pipe has a pump, which is getting the pipe full. But the two pipes going down are not filling up a thing

[unique cypress]

Is the oil getting to the very top?

[visual yarrow]

Wait, you said 250-300 out of 600?

Make sure there isn't a stray bit of mk1 pipe.

Sometimes that can get left behind when snapping things onto existing pipes.

[visual ocean]

Yeah, the pipe going up is full to the brim.
The ones going down have nothing. I have a junction connecting the 3 pipes, like so

[visual ocean]

It was sending that cause the pipe was full. It just gets stuck there

[visual ocean]

The top floor was build now. All mk2. This little pillar was also now. Idk, this feel like a bug but damn it sucks

[unique cypress]

What's the topmost pump say?

[visual ocean]

my pump is close to the floor. its 600 flow rate and 600 max flor rate

[unique cypress]

Head lift?

[visual ocean]

32,4

out of 50

[unique cypress]

But also, if it says 600/600 then you can't get more?

[visual ocean]

its max flow, but i only have 600 oil anyway

does the junction affect the flow comehow?

[visual yarrow]

is it flowing from top to bottom or bottom to top

or rather, what is it intended to be doing

[unique cypress]

What are you even expecting to happen that isn't happening if 600 is flowing up?

[visual ocean]

only like 2ml Like this. Pump is on the upwards pipe

[unique cypress]

Like what is even the issue

[visual ocean]

there is like 2ml going to the tubes after

[visual yarrow]

so is there like, a large fluid buffer or something that those pipes lead to?

because the way pipes work, those pipes right after the pumps will be what fills up last

[visual ocean]

No, it's all going to refineries

[visual yarrow]

and the refineries are not getting enough, correct?

[visual ocean]

okay idk what happened but while i was talking here the pipes just got back to life

[visual yarrow]

yeah it sounds like the system was just saturating

[visual ocean]

one of them was only pushing 2ml out of 600m2. for a long time. I tried putting pumps pushing down earlier and wasnt doing much

Now it seems to be working. Thank god

[visual yarrow]

if I had to guess, one of the junction directions was being favored because of how... forgive my terminology, wonky, the piping is

so once that side filled up, the other side started getting some, too

[visual ocean]

Yeah i had it nicely, but i decided to lower the pillar and just added it like that. I was going nuts. Thank you guys

[crimson moat]

Yeah.. if you keep everything the same level and use the same amount of pipes on each arm (not distance, but actual pipe objects) that shouldn't happen. It's very easy to do it by accident.

Biggest problem with pipes in the game i think, you can make a visually identical pipe in about 5 different ways and it will flow differently, sometimes with profound consequences.

[vapid gorge]

@dapper plank show me an overhead image of how you're managing the water

cause it sounds like you're making this hard on yourself

[dapper plank]

lemme get back to base rq im at my nuclear power plant

im now realizing how simple it would be to just organize this

but its already set up

and its on the other side of the base

[vapid gorge]

I would need yoru refineries

the extractors basically don't matter

[dapper plank]

imma color code rq

[vapid gorge]

why is nothing on foundations?

and you've got buffers everywhere

[dapper plank]

i dont use foundations alot

[vapid gorge]

did you use advanced game settings to unlock everything or something?

[dapper plank]

no

[vapid gorge]

ok theres.. really nothing that is a 'fix' for this w/o rebuilding a bunch of it

if you actually care about fluid systems running smoothly , step 1 is 'build on foundations'

and no spaghetti

[dapper plank]

no spaghetti???

[vapid gorge]

that's if yo ucare about it running smoothly

[dapper plank]

cant

[vapid gorge]

then you don't care about it running smoothly and I can't help you

[unborn dome]

How reliable are trucks these days? Reliable enough to deliver iron for nitric acid for nuclear fuel with? I know back in EA they used to get lost sometimes.

[vapid gorge]

they are virtual now. so as long as you don't have dead locks you're good

[unborn dome]

Nice, so like they only get rendered when the player is nearby, and otherwise it's just faked?

[vapid gorge]

they are always faked afaik? but I'm not sure dead locks will allow it through still.

[unborn dome]

Deadlocks as in trucks colliding with other trucks?

[vapid gorge]

head on pausing

so trucks jsut facing each other w/o being able to move

[unborn dome]

So if there's only one truck, it should be fine

[vapid gorge]

basically zero issues possible.

if it falls off a cliff it'll pop back up

[unborn dome]

Nice, that's a lot better than when I originally played in U3 lol

[vapid gorge]

just remember to record turns slowly still, otherwise it'll probably look dumb cutting corners

[fallow siren]

trucks doesnt exactly follow your routes, the ai only follows the arrows left behind

going too fast will mean less arrows in the path

but thats fine if its just straight path

[unborn dome]

Do more arrows make it slow down like it does if you're driving the route initially?

[fallow siren]

they are, but its less janky with more arrows especially when doing turns

[dusky dust]

The vehicles will approximate the speed at which you were driving, yeah (which is related to the arrows). Though note that their top speed will be a little less than when manually driving

[warm granite]

No more mysterious fluid magic

And

MK5+ Belt > MK2 pipe = lets you scale, balance, and control fluids more

All for the cost of building extra infrastructure for recycling containers

I've grown to respect the packager immensely in my play

[crimson moat]

yes i use em

It's actually the only way to get "perfect" bauxite processing without bug abuse 😄

[vapid gorge]

I mean, you can just split the fresh and waste systems with a little clocking. No need to jump through hoops

And it’s 100% effective

[crimson moat]

split fresh and waste fundamentally has substantial warmup latency

packaged priority has zero, can snap from 0% production to 100% on all machines in one update

[vapid gorge]

Spin up time doesn’t mean it’s not 100% efficient

That’s like saying manifolds arent 100% efficient and no one is that silly or wrong

[ancient mauve]

I love watching containers zoom around too, so packagers are getting a workout for me this playthrough too

[gloomy gyro]

First save on the game and I’m with a friends whose played before were up to getting stuff for phase 4 and have completed all milestone up to 8 roughly how many hours until I complete the game

Where’s best spot to do rocket fuel

[short spoke]

hey guys. how do i work out making x amount of things a minute...but in reverse? like i have a TON of resources to make heavy modular frames and a TON of iron, copper ect but idk the math leading UP to x heavy modular frames a min

[unique cypress]

Choose an amount you think makes sense and see if you can afford it

Then either make less or choose different alts if you can

Using up all the resources in an area rarely leads to a factory that makes sense.

[short spoke]

yeah i was just trying to be "efficient" before i make this massive factory taking hours just to take it down completely 😛

[fallow siren]

plan from end product instead of trying to maximize the nodes

[unique cypress]

Resource efficiency is only decided by recipe choice though

[fallow siren]

how much hmf you want to make

[wind spade]

It will always have latency, unless you feed all from fresh water and sink byproduct water

[unique cypress]

Depends how you build it. If you overbuild fresh water packaging to be capable of supplying the whole thing by itself, then the only extra delay comes from packaging and unpackaging

Which is a lot less time than the refinery manifold filling I'd think

[cerulean stratus]

What's a recipe that needs both steel, and oil, besides modular engines

[unique cypress]

Modular engines don't need steel

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah I guess you can iron pipe it

[unique cypress]

And the only 2 things that actually need steel don't strictly need oil as far as I can tell

[wind spade]

yeah if you overbuild fresh water, it can start instantly... but at that point it's kinda pointless to do any priority anyway and just sink/process the waste water

[unique cypress]

Well, no, it's not entirely pointless because priority merging doesn't "waste" resources on getting rid of water

[wind spade]

that's why "/process" 🙂

[unique cypress]

If you put it into something useful that isn't aluminium, then yeah, it's not a waste

I should try that sometime

The only common method of aluminium water handling I still have never used

[cerulean stratus]

I'm trying to justify coke steel ingot here

[crimson moat]

It's easy to build it zero latency because of the prioritisation. If there's waste it's used, if not, fresh is used. The time that waste water takes to go through the belt system is entirely covered by a brief, temporary fresh consumption and rebalanced automatically afterwards.

[unique cypress]

If you don't overbuild the fresh water supply, then without waste water, you aren't getting to 100%. And getting that waste water to appear takes a while

And a VIP would be faster, too

[crimson moat]

You need to either supply enough fresh to fuel it with less (or no) waste, or tested adequate water buffer.

VIP liquid cannot be faster because you can't beat instant. I literally have a design where all machines are always at 45/50+ m3 of water, no matter what you do to it.

[unique cypress]

You don't need to need to use both steel and oil in one chain to justify using it.

[wind spade]

zero latency is only possible if the system can be fully supplied by fresh water, meaning you have overbuilt it

[cerulean stratus]

Well, I was using it before for Flexible heavy frames, but you can just use encased instead

[crimson moat]

No, that's incorrect. I have done it. Nobody has ever posted a system that didn't work.

Buffers drain from 50/50 briefly as there's a lag time for sloppy alumina output to hit the machines again as waste input, but buffers refill later by an equal amount, regardless of when the machines run.

They can start/stop instantaneously with arbitrary intervals and durations.

[wind spade]

with a buffer it still needs to fill the buffer, by "fresh start" I mean "everything is empty"

[rocky cypress]

I have a question guys. I have refineries producing HOR + Polymer. Total of 10 producing 400 HOR per minute, that is fed into blenders to make Diluted Fuel.

I have refineries that depend on the Polymer, but I have always 3 refineries on one end that get backed up with HOR thus hurting the polymer production.

I did the math and having 8 blenders running at 100% needs 400 HOR per minute, so why does it get backed up?

[wind spade]

are you processing the product properly?

[rocky cypress]

I think I am yeah. My brain thinks it is the way maybe the pipes are set? That the liquid has to go all the way to one end and that is why the last 3 back up?

[wind spade]

looping the pipe is always nice to do

not sure if it will solve the problem you have, but it can't hurt

[rocky cypress]

Like this?

[wind spade]

like this

[rocky cypress]

So the loop has to be done going up? It wont work like in the image I showed?

[wind spade]

it can work even without the loop. It's just that the setup I've shown has highest chance of working

since fluids also get pushed down by gravity

[rocky cypress]

I will give it a go and see what it does

[balmy sandal]

I have a quwstion. I have a train station unloading into my central storage. As I add more trains and more catagories I find my train station is struggling to empty. I think it's because it gets frequently interrupted by trains arriving. Is my only solution to build mor train stations for the trains to unload or is there another workaround

[rocky cypress]

I am no train expert since I use belts mostly, but I do know that you have signals to direct train traffic

Building another train station seems easier in my brain though

[balmy sandal]

Yeah probably

Well, better design a more elaborate train station. sarcasm oh noooo

[wind spade]

yeah, usually separate stations are the way

[balmy sandal]

gonna turn my 1 train station into 6 and see if that helps. It was either that or have less trains (one train stopping at multiple factories) so the station has more time to empty. according to the math I'm not getting in enough Items to cause the block so it must be the frequent pausing.

[desert harness]

So... i tried to build a 10belt overflow system.... it should work but what u guys think?

[wind spade]

I think that anything like this is practically pointless and only useful if you really want to build it for the sake of building it

[fresh geyser]

it looks good but i don't understand what is it

[desert harness]

i have 10 belts of copper ingots and i wanted to make sure i have an overflow in case something backs up.

[crisp hazel]

This doesnt really have a use case

[desert harness]

12.5k copper/min

just wanna be sure

[wind spade]

sure of what?

if it backs up, that means an error somewhere else

[crisp hazel]

Why have 12.5k copper if you haven’t mathematically planned a build that can use it all?

[desert harness]

Yeah. I just dont trust myself

[desert harness]

i do. its for copper poweder. 2k/min

[unique cypress]

Pretty sure you'll see it backing up even without overflow

[crisp hazel]

But also why do you need that much copper tied up in that much copper powder per minute?

[desert harness]

10 nuclear pasta/min

[wind spade]

building overflow isn't a way to trust yourself either tho

[desert harness]

rather have it than something breaks and i dont jknow wher

[wind spade]

if it breaks, go fix it

don't ignore the problem with overflow

[desert harness]

gives me more time

[wind spade]

you have infinite time

[desert harness]

to find problem by seeing which belt goes into overflow and following it

that should lead me straight to the problem

[wind spade]

the same way you'll see a belt that is backed up and not moving

[unique cypress]

You can just do that looking at the belt?

[desert harness]

hmm... but then other machines back up and if the backup is in some key region than id rather have that backup in a sink that break stuff

[wind spade]

the stuff is broken anyway

overflowing ingots to sink doesn't solve that

[desert harness]

easier if i just see: oh there is overflow. thats from that belt. i dont ususally check a 3x4 belt highway for backup on a daily routine

[wind spade]

so you check 3x4 belt overflows?

[desert harness]

more easy to see. besides i can teest run sectors of the factory to check i u fucked up somewhere without havibng the rest of the factory build yet

[wind spade]

same test run can be by sinking the final product

[desert harness]

im just starting on working on the factory. i usually build it item by item and test inbetween

[wind spade]

yeah just sink the final item you have to sink and see if all machines run and have green lights

[desert harness]

that like still lots of hours away. i wanna test while i still understand wtf i did

[unique cypress]

you don't even need to look at all machines, just the final ones are enough

[desert harness]

yeah i know but i use a manifold even though i prefer balancing and till all machins run on full capacity it takes time

[wind spade]

that doesn't change for your case, you still need to see if all machines work, no matter if you look at lights or overflow

[desert harness]

hmm... ye i guess...

[fresh geyser]

guys, which recipe requires less steel per minute?

[unique cypress]

encased pipe uses both less steel and less concrete

[fresh geyser]

are you sure

[unique cypress]

well, it's obviously less concrete, and 6 pipes cost 9 steel (default pipe recipe) and 3 beams cost 12 steel (also default recipe)

[wind spade]

the top one

[unique cypress]

idk how it works out with molded tho

[wind spade]

top one is 18/min, bottom one is 24/min

[fresh geyser]

are you sure

[wind spade]

yes

[fresh geyser]

but steel pipes are cheaper

[wind spade]

that depends on recipe used there - I'm comparing just the usage of steel beams vs steel pipes

[fresh geyser]

i asked about the steel

not beams and pipes

[wind spade]

and I answered about steel beam and steel pipe

[fresh geyser]

what

[wind spade]

they are both called "steel [something]"

[fresh geyser]

i used to call steel ingots just steel

i'm stooped mb

[wind spade]

ah

for steel ingot that depends on recipes used for beams and pipes

you could for example make the argument that you make steel beams out of aluminum and hence the top recipe uses 0 steel

(or make steel pipe out of iron and the bottom recipe uses 0 steel)

[unique cypress]

encased pipe + default pipe = 5 concrete + 9 steel

default encased beam + default beam = 6 concrete + 12 steel

encased pipe + molded pipe = 8.6 concrete + 6 steel

default encased beam + molded beam = 11.333 concrete + 8 steel

encased pipe + iron pipe = 5 concrete + 24 iron

(there's no iron beam)

[wind spade]

there's alu beam 😉

[wind spade]

(also they asked about per minute values)

[unique cypress]

and I gave /min numbers for 1 encased industrial beam/min

[wind spade]

well they asked for per minute values for given recipe

[idle wedge]

i'm trying to make a curve in concrete, to serve as the foundation for a curved railway. I wanted to use a 6x6 block for blueprinting, but I can't seem to make the correct angle to match the rail. a 10 degree curve just isnt enough, feels like i might need something steeper. anybody have experience with this

[fresh geyser]

encased pipe recipe seems to be more effective

[wind spade]

again, depends on previously selected recipes

[brisk urchin]

dam this conversation

🔥

[wind spade]

here's the dam you wanted

[split sierra]

why cant you get oil from sam graah

i'll never be free from the smokeless powder recipe

[oblique hollow]

honesty - serves oil right.
Already does just about everything

it doesnt need no helping hand from SAM

[sharp knoll]

Is there much merit to transporting aluminum ingots then turning them into plates or casings?

I’m planning out my aluminum plant and looking at future recipes I’m thinking of just crafting them on the spot and shipping them around

[dusky dust]

Either/or, really. I often process right near the ingot production, though sometimes that'll depend on where the more convenient copper is located

That's not a question I have a consistent answer to across a playthrough. :)

[sharp knoll]

ya in this case i have some pure copper nodes next to the plant so i thought, "might as well just keep going"

[lone lily]

generally best practice to transport items in their most resource dense state

so its better to transport aluminum casing and sheets rather than ingots themselves

[dusky dust]

My usual strategy with aluminum is to max out a bauxite node on ingot production, and send all the ingots to a sink. As other factories need aluminum products (sheets/casings/heatsinks/tanks) I'll produce 'em and then set up the export to that remote factory. Over time the amount of ingots getting sunk shrinks, and once it's nearly out then it's time for me to build out more aluminum

But if I need sheets somewhere and there's just not convenient copper nearby, I may end up sending the ingots instead (ie: reserve X machines for that specific factory export, rather than sending those to the sink)

[sharp knoll]

hmmm i see