math-and-meta

[grave grove]

is there a priority fluid merger where it would use water byproduct before using new water?

im starting my first aluminum stuff

[ripe wing]

the 3rd one from left is working

this was my last resort

and it still doesnt work

what even is wrong

[crimson moat]

you can make one in fluid with some quirky exploits, but otherwise only with packaged

the easier way to do things which mostly works fine is just to run some refineries on fresh water, and some more only on waste.

[kindred carbon]

Nitrogen is kind of a rare resource it seems

Especially if you’re using recipes with nitric acid in the mix

[crimson moat]

you don't need a lot of it, and what you do need it for is basically all power

except cooling systems(?)

It's also concentrated in only a few locations, but really easy to transport due to packaging compression

[vapid gorge]

why is it in the water?

what's the water extractor set to/

and I did say overhead image

[severe mango]

I just ugga bugga'd it by making more Fuel and it worked, Bigger is always better

https://tenor.com/view/tesla-and-einstein-luma-ai-gif-14475294631445060178

[haughty barn]

and fused frames

[kindred carbon]

You need a lot for FMF, cooling systems and rocket fuel if you’re making it

[burnt topaz]

oh no...

big oh no...

[burnt topaz]

my Concrete Production

[tepid kettle]

How much p/min

[unique cypress]

Mk6 belts and default jetpack fuel. Amazing

[unique cypress]

Probably 0, considering I don't see any sinks

[burnt topaz]

sinks are behind me

[burnt topaz]

6400 per min

[burnt topaz]

and its gonna stay like that for a while

[unique cypress]

Why not liquid biofuel at least? It's better than regular fuel in like all aspects

[burnt topaz]

I have a grand total of 0 Biomass and dont really wanna setup something for that and farm the biomass

im fine with normal fuel

[unique cypress]

1 stack of protein and sloops in every step will make enough LBF for like a month of constant flight

Regular fuel absolutely sucks ass compared to LBF but I'm assuming at that point you're hoverpacking everywhere so it's not like it matters much

[burnt topaz]

not really

i use normal jetpack for like

70%? of the time

[charred saffron]

Hoverpacks are only really useful when amidst your buildings or working on a building. Jetpacks are still great for moving around

[frail sigil]

Hoverpack is kinda niche yeah
I kinda hate how it just cuts off

[burnt topaz]

I only use it when buidling schematics

[charred saffron]

Also afaik LBF and normal fuel have the exact same energy and thus burn time for both generators and jetpacks- and I checked the gg wiki just to be sure

[unique cypress]

Ouch. LBF lasts 3x longer than fuel. Makes building a lot easier

[burnt topaz]

ive got no problems with jetpack

and for schematics i use hover

[unique cypress]

Idk, I'd have issues if I had to land 3x more often to recharge

[charred saffron]

Nevermind for some funny reason LBF has different stats specifically on jetpacks

[burnt topaz]

im just bunny hopping everywhere

[unique cypress]

Before I installed the hoverpack buff mod, I used to use the jetpack with LBF exactly 100% of the time, and tbh even the nearly minute long flight time still wasn't enough sometimes

[charred saffron]

Slide-jump 'bunnyhopping' my beloved. Works pretty well most of the time, but the jetpack helps in a lot of cases

[burnt topaz]

yep, preserves speed and and gets rid of fall damage

[cerulean stratus]

Guys, did we ever figure out a suitable priority merger for pipes

[burnt topaz]

Does Gravity not work for that?

sounds stupid but why not

[cerulean stratus]

Not really
Only for overflow

[burnt topaz]

so this wouldnt work

if it was going up

[cerulean stratus]

Nope

[burnt topaz]

thats sad

[unique cypress]

Check the pins for the plumbing manual, and like 2/3rds down is the VIP junction

[cerulean stratus]

Isn't it like buggy af

[unique cypress]

Mine work perfectly fine

I did add a pump after tho

Not sure if that makes a difference

But it's an old BP I know works and I don't dare to touch it

[unique cypress]

#math-and-meta message

[burnt topaz]

Opinions?

are there any ways to make signs 6m wide?

[wind patrol]

the internal calculator is so neat

i was being lazy about hexagons and just gave it a go and they actually have sqrt???

it feels like such a fun thing to add that i'm so happy they did, kinda makes the quick search feel almost like the ficsyt version of google

no abs thought :sadge:, at least they have power though using the caret

also interesting that they're using double precision :OOO

[wind patrol]

this is my proof, idk if it actually is

[gloomy shoal]

Tragedy of the highest order that there seems to be a horizontal speed limit in place now (at least pre-jetpack, I haven't bothered making it yet)

Can't hurl myself off moving trains

[wind patrol]

mightve been an unreal thing? idk what the version satisfactory is using but there was some weirdness with the movement code (in that it was dependent on frame rate) for marvel rivals which felt the similiar in satisfactory so they mightve changed it in one of the unreal updates?

idk if that wouldve effected satisfactory so soon though, my guess was that it was recalculating deltatime more than once in a frame or it was using single precision floats for some sort of time domain thingy that couldnt handle it well (i havent studdied that math/phys in uni more than dmath soz, only compsci)

[crimson moat]

Satisfactory does have framerate dependant movement

with high fps you cant fly as high/long on the jetpack

[unique cypress]

Vertical bars don't work for abs?

[wind patrol]

oh i havent tried

nah they dont

[gloomy shoal]

I am curious what the full function range looks like
+-*/ are standard everywhere
^ and sqrt() are reasonably expected on most normal calculators

max() and min() might be useful on occasion

[cerulean stratus]

so I wanted to see what recycled plubber you guys have

[amber umbra]

@cerulean stratus Are you looking for full spoiler version or just like heavier tips?

[cerulean stratus]

full spoiler?

[amber umbra]

So the recycled rubber/plastic production line is kinda a puzzle. You only get one chance to explore that puzzle for yourself. I'm just checking that you don't care about doing it yourself at all.

[cerulean stratus]

Ok I think I got it

[snow furnace]

@cerulean stratus The reason I did that setup was because it fits in a blueprint designer so I can just stamp them out quickly and then get the logistics all hooked up

[amber umbra]

The layout I like is shown here. For simplicity, just sink the resin byproduct. Then fuel is converted to either rubber or plastic (shown) by a looped belt setup with 2:1 ratio refinery.

Overflow splitter to siphon excess out of the loop.

[cerulean stratus]

What I used to do is build whole chains at a time, and it was great, although a bit linear. If I was trying to burn HOR from multiple sources though it was a nightmare to deal with

With that said, I think building chains can be interesting when built beyond just a line, I still have to see what exactly is happening in doc's design

[amber umbra]

For understanding my setup, just do a super basic 1:2 refinery setup. Then look at the math for the recipes. It’s a very unique recipe combo where you essentially have a “catalyst” ingredient that’s also a final product. It’s funky.

[cerulean stratus]

the hard part about your setup is, what if you need more plastic than rubber? and how would you control it?
I felt like making whole chains was really annoying because you had to make a lot of things again from scratch

[amber umbra]

The idea of my setup is you keep it super clean. The production chain is oil -> rubber or oil -> plastic. You never combine them.

When I needed both I just plopped down the same setup tuned for different rates next to each other.

Can a single loop deliver both products, yea. Is it as easy to understand, implement? No.

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah I took a better look at your design, it's basically this

[snow furnace]

Yes

Fits in a mk1 blueprint designer so you can do this early

You can prefill the feeder refinery with a small stack in the blueprint so it will immediately spin up once you hook in fuel and power

[amber umbra]

Yuppers

I found it quite fun, cool to unpack this design. Going in, I had heard it described as requiring recursive steps back and forth like a huge chain of alternating steps. Was surprised by how obvious, upon looking at it closely, the looped design was.

[snow furnace]

You can make the line longer if you want as long as you have that 1:2 ratio. I like simple blueprints to make it easy to stamp out more production whenever I need to tweak it

[cerulean stratus]

sorry orgo, I've been neglecting your for a bit, lemme check it closer

[amber umbra]

All good. Complex stuff like this really requires you to take your time in game. Doesn't translate well to reading chat descriptions.

There are other ways people do these recipes that don't use loops. I was commenting on those designs relative to the loop designs.

[snow furnace]

Btw that fuel input pipe would continue to the other side and hook into the next block and the output rubber/plastic is coming towards you in that

[amber umbra]

I want to say that priority mergers in 1.1 are useful for merging back in the byproduct resin plastic/rubber in a very robust way. I wasn't very comfortable with basic merging a product into the main product belt.

Like technically it shouldn't cause issues, but at the time didn't want to verify it.

More of an advanced concept with byproduct management when your produced item is over produced relative to consumption (backpressure). Blah blah blaah

[cerulean stratus]

priority mergers are so peak
They took so long to add them

[amber umbra]

I don't disagree.

[cerulean stratus]

and the moment they did, I became able to build logic systems

[amber umbra]

Since I'm giving random tips, This style of rotated pipe junctions I found really nice for blender and more complex refinery pipe routing.

Since my recycled loops used blender diluted fuel into refineries I used it for that piping.

Satisfyingly clean piping.

[cerulean stratus]

Interesting that your outputs are first used as inputs of the next one

[thorn bane]

ye that way you can get 1200 output

[cerulean stratus]

do you usually expand the manifold much?

[thorn bane]

yep

[cerulean stratus]

like it's one thing to say 1200 output, but when you're playing with mk4 and then mk5 and then mk6, your math get thrown out

[amber umbra]

He likes things (manifolds) big. I get it.

[thorn bane]

ye you just increase the manifold when you unlock better belts

[amber umbra]

Do be mindful of your combined clockrate ratios of the refineries. You need to maintain the 1:2 if doing pure output of one item. 1:1 requires a 1:1 final output in comparison.

Idk what zyranex is using

[thorn bane]

eh just overbuild the manifold and dont underclock

[amber umbra]

Or can you technically just have idle clock capacity i guess?

Inelegant but seems alright I guess.

[thorn bane]

i do it mostly so it can adapt to varying rubber/plastic demand when i unlock new alts

[cerulean stratus]

The issue is a bit complex
Here's the story

• You're making plastic for electronics and everything is fine
• You need to add more rubber now, which drains plastic
• If you don't add more plastic, or if your run out of fuel for the new plastic, your electronics will suffer

And this is something I just can't agree with. I like having controlled failure, and the things that should fail would be the new additions not the old ones... if that makes sense

[amber umbra]

Sure. Simplifying is always going to be easier to troubleshoot, validate. Some people like living more dangerously.

[cerulean stratus]

Honestly I go to great lengths to implement this feature, but no one seems to care but me

[amber umbra]

Kinda hard to tell what you're saying.

If you build say plastic using the recycled loops you can just treat it as a modular "this makes X plastic/min". And if you need more you just paste another copy of that modular production line. There's never any issue of rubber influencing plastic as it's just plastic.

The recycled loops stuff just happens to be under the hood of the production line, but who cares.

It's just oil -> plastic

Zyranex style, yea, you need to keep a ledger of what you're using and how much you can scale it.

[cerulean stratus]

ok, here's the situation
If you have a part that's being used in 2 places, for example, you're using wire for cable and rips

if you want to have more rips, but don't increase the wire, you risk your cable production going down

[amber umbra]

Yup, I'm with you.

[thorn bane]

well its different with buffers but ye

[cerulean stratus]

And I think that's wrong. It's the new rips that should have suffered because of lack of supply, cable shouldn't have been involved

[amber umbra]

It's ok to have that preference. But regardless of which one is undersupplied that situation of being undersuppied is bad. So people just focus on having enough supply.

Hence not caring

[thorn bane]

well if cables are full then you still get more rips

but ye i totaly get that not many people like that playstyle

[snow furnace]

My philosophy is that I try to build all the parts for a given line in that line. It means I have lots of small productions of the same items spread around because they get used in different things but I never have to worry about not having enough because I've planned that into the new factory line

[cerulean stratus]

would you really make a factory for when your storage is full? It adds irregularity to your power and if you use the storage it makes your production go down

[amber umbra]

Getting multiple questions being asked btw

[cerulean stratus]

my philosophy is that I don't like to go back to fix something, I'd prefer to never redo things and only go forward

[thorn bane]

yes but storage is like 10% of resources
so i plan for 100% productivity but i only have 90% while building it
i always just split into storage so its 50%/50% but the storage fills fast

[amber umbra]

Using a specific midgame item like computers or HMF probably better for giving examples. Something like iron ingots you rarely want to build all in one place because there are far too many downstream consumers. HMF for example is pretty reasonable to do limited sharing of one factory producing HMF with seperate downstream consumers.

Idk if that's the topic though.

Is storage meaning DD?

[thorn bane]

ye i guess i also build everything in 1 place xD

[cerulean stratus]

I remember having a lot of quickwire making for high speed connectors. But since I was splitting 50% it was taking me way too long, and I didn't need a whole container worth of quickwire, so it was just delay
I now use just a machine for storage. Some times I use 2 for the milestones, but once they're done they go straight to production

[thorn bane]

yes

[cerulean stratus]

this was in update8, so no depot

[thorn bane]

i sometimes reconnect a storage container back to the production if i dont want it to fill, or want temporary extra items of it (for example by unlocking something new that uses that)

[amber umbra]

For DD production, I never want to have the DD supply run out. So that means I do:

1. dedicated productioni for DD
2. have DD fed from a production line with the rates worked out to have a bit of extra production over what's used downstream

Idk what other options exist that are reasonable.

[thorn bane]

my issue is that those dedicated productions are idle for like 90% of the time

[amber umbra]

It's a DD item. Is what it is.

[cerulean stratus]

honestly I rather they be idle

than running out and not realizing

[amber umbra]

yea

It's like factorio malls. People just build 1 of every production structure feeding a dedicated chest for each item. They sit idle a ton, but it's fine.

And with global DDs you just chuck it on the other side of the map in a big box if it brings you shame.

[cerulean stratus]

dds are so op

[thorn bane]

ye

[amber umbra]

So yea, seems like what you're talking about spaghetto is just a well established practice already for DD items. Hence people brushing off the topic when brought up.

[cerulean stratus]

I'm kinda sad they killed the mall

[cerulean stratus]

I think a dedicated line for dd is pretty important, but that's not the thing I wanted you to understand

[thorn bane]

you can do it with a smart splitter with "any" to DD and "overflow" to production but i personally prefer 50/50

[amber umbra]

All my midgame production lines (HMF, etc.) have the output belt feeding in priority order via priority splitters.

1. downstream consumption
2. DD
3. awesome sink

Idk if spaghetto does that.

[cerulean stratus]

What I think it's important is that expanding your products without expanding supply is not always just a "oops" moment, but more like an eventuality
and when that happens, you want it to fail only the most recent additions
which is why in this example, I am sharing the inputs, but the outputs have separate machines

[amber umbra]

But that's not an eventuallity. It's just a mistake. (not having enough supply)

Just have enough supply. The end.

It's like failsafe power. Just have enough power.

[thorn bane]

hm i usually build the new stuff first and then expand previous builds later on
and during that rely on storage
like buffering 500 modular frames so i can instantly make HMFs once i unlock them and then after that expand the modular frames line

[amber umbra]

This is interesting but I must sleep. Gnight

[cerulean stratus]

Thing is, production chains can be long, you may see a machine only draining 8 heavy oil residue and you just spam them and only later you realize you're not making enough hor, but now your thermal rockets you're hurrying for so much can't be produced

[old hearth]

if i put 600 gas per minute in a pipe will it behave or do i need to treat it like liquids

[cerulean stratus]

it should behave better than liquids, but idk

[old hearth]

in theory

[thorn bane]

isnt it the same as liquid?
just no headlift

[old hearth]

ig what im asking is do i need to do some loop shenanigans to get it to flow properly

[old hearth]

ive hear it prioritized filling up equally

[thorn bane]

i dont know i always just do <500/min gas pipes

[amber umbra]

I never tested it. Hmmm. I know the tricks to make liquid work (<550 fluid/min) also works for gas.

[wind spade]

That's why you calculate it before

[old hearth]

can i do a full 600 pipe of rocket fuel without me panicing about my grid is what im asking ig

[thorn bane]

i usualy only calculate my post tier9 goal and freestyle everything before

[thorn bane]

i did 500/min RF pipes

[old hearth]

thats annoying

im going to have to test ig

im going to try normal 600 pipe, and then a few other methods of fluid transport

[thorn bane]

#screenshots message
it worked out for me
12 lines of 500/min

[amber umbra]

Do final final thoughts on the spaghetto thing, yes, you can design that way. It’s kinda fun, cool. Does not calculating lead to other issues, yes. I recommend just calculating and keeping simple in satisfactory.

That said, the design style you’re describing is definitely a thing in Factorio rail bases. People usually just monitor their consumption, production rates to identify when they have an issue of underproduction. Then they fix it asap. Min maxing priority of what stops working first in the underproduction state is a thing you can do (trains have priority now in Factorio). It’s kinda cool to design for it. Satisfactory doesn’t have all those tools so it’s kinda just a pain. So meh.

[old hearth]

i dont want 500 pipes

thats not fun maths

[amber umbra]

But you do you on the topic

[thorn bane]

are you doing defualt or nitro?

[old hearth]

nvm its easy math for the fuel gens

[old hearth]

bothish but nitro rn

3000 nitro, 3,333.333333 reg later

[thorn bane]

cause default makes 250 so 2x of them is 500

[old hearth]

imma do 500 pipes though, as thats only 48 fully overclocked fuel gens

[old hearth]

nitro makes 150

[thorn bane]

ye not sure what id do with nitro

[old hearth]

imma just oc

to 500

[thorn bane]

that works

[old hearth]

i can spare the power, my final build will make 3 tw

[thorn bane]

dayum

[old hearth]

(all gens are fully overclocked) 50.6 turbo fuel gens, 276.48 nitro rocket fuel gens, 444.44 ionized fuel gens, and 120% power boost, and the rest from a really weird nuclear power setup

[wind spade]

450 pipes then

[old hearth]

maybe but ehhhghghghghg

[wind spade]

what's the problem with that?

[old hearth]

43.2 fully overclocked fuel gens

[wind spade]

or 108 normal gens 🤷

[old hearth]

this is per system

277 total

[wind spade]

if amount of gens is a problem, go nuclear 🙂

[old hearth]

Me when i forget that the guy is doing an all alts run

and i need 444.44 for ionized

i paved over the whole blue crator, but im not taking any more space than that

[old hearth]

im doing nuclear as well

[snow furnace]

I like doing 240% for rocket fuel powered generators. Makes it an even 10/min consumption

[old hearth]

ok thats worth it

its only a few more gens

though i only barely have enough shards

[snow furnace]

Yeah it's a minor difference, like 5 more for burning a full 600 pipe of rocket fuel but it's an easy number to work with and easy numbers make planning easier

[old hearth]

fair

fortunately my next factory is my matrix + powershard plant

now to use a casual 2000 sulfur for rocket fuel

[bronze ermine]

If I dismantle my coal power there and put mk2 nodes on all 4 iron and 1 pure coal node

Using alternate steel recipee
480Iron + 240 Coal Inp
I get 360 Steel per minute, how do I divide this into pipes and beams? (it's my first steel plant).

Side Note; Do u think its worth having a tractor bring coal from the pure node on the left edge to double production

Also do u think its time I use trucks to bring raw resources from one place to another then process it or do I still need to wait to get larger number of inps per minute for it

[brisk urchin]

just make a 1k fuel generators power plant and you are done for some time

not that hard

[vapid gorge]

I'd just belt it with such an early set up. Much simpler. Good power spot to the north west in the hills too

[heavy gust]

i hate whoever decided this number for pure iron ingots

[brisk urchin]

leached iron is better

u get 2400 out of 1200 ore

[wind spade]

clock the miner to different number then 😉

[heavy gust]

thats not the point

not too happy about this either, but 0.8 is fine.
0.714286 is ugly af

[wind spade]

it's one machine with different clock speed, what number you put in doesn't matter (imo)

[heavy gust]

could possibly entertain the thought that differnt people prefer differnt things?
this is btw what i mean when i said you have the need to be techinically correct

[wind spade]

this is not about being correct tho? I'm just giving my opinion?

there's no "correct" way to play the game

[brisk urchin]

yes there is

the "efficient" way

(from ADA)

[wind spade]

"efficient" means nothing

unless you specify what is your definition of "efficient"

[brisk urchin]

a ballance between enjoying and also actualy progressing, a ballance between fun and grinding

[wind spade]

I just feel that sometimes people give too much weight to having "nice" numbers per minute, which then leads to issues like yours, and many people actually thanked me for reminding them of this 🤷

[brisk urchin]

a balance between not rushing but still progressing fast

[wind spade]

so, a subjective thing that will differ from person to person... hence my point of "no correct way to play"

[brisk urchin]

buddy i was joking i was referring of how ADA would want you to play

[wind spade]

idc about ADA

[brisk urchin]

yeah ik that

[glacial peak]

Remember that ficsit does not waste :>

[covert kite]

You disgrace!

[covert kite]

Ficsonium is real on this one.

[covert kite]

Imagine using Ionized Fuel for this

[quick gorge]

1 quadrillion fuel gens

[covert kite]

NOOOOOOŒÔº

[quick gorge]

I did the math and it's very off-meta
Send em to nerd jail

[cerulean stratus]

do you calculate the power you need beforehand too?

[brisk urchin]

meta be nuclear?

or mass coal gens? 👀

[quick gorge]

Bio burners

[brisk urchin]

i knew it

[glacial peak]

Gonna do an all bio burner phase 5 setup brb

[brisk urchin]

gl, i wna see a screenshot afterwards pls

(honestly with my mods this could be possible)

[glacial peak]

gonna have to deforest all the map for 5 mins of power shard making :)))

maybe less fr

with a mod of a foresting machine that replants trees or something maybe. if you can automate the whole process

but otherwise 💀

[brisk urchin]

just mega chainsaw

fills inventory instandly with the plants around you

the only range limit is literaly your inventory

[glacial peak]

imagine if pollution was an actual factor in the game and all plants would wither around your factories

the more they grow

[unique cypress]

1 creature remains can become 400 GJ of energy if converted to liquid biofuel (with sloops in every step)

[brisk urchin]

dam

for how long? 3 seconds?

[unique cypress]

400 GJ

That's a unit of energy, not power

400 GW for 1 second

200 GW for 2 seconds

Etc

[brisk urchin]

oh i read 400 GW

not GJ lol

[unique cypress]

Though if you're doing a biomass only run, I suspect most of your power generators would need to be bio burners to save fuel

So you'd need to package it

[brisk urchin]

wild idea

but what if i wanted to convert all the oil on that one soulth east spot to rocket fuel and then feed it to fuel generators

i think there is about 2000 to 2500 crude oil

[fallow siren]

all oil into rocket? youre going to eat up so much sulfur/nitrogen

[unique cypress]

There's 2550 oil, and you'd get 612 GW

[brisk urchin]

yeh ik lol

[unique cypress]

Though you'd also need 3400 coal, 5100 nitro, 6800 sulfur

[brisk urchin]

dam i guessed right

[unique cypress]

And nearly 2500 fuel generators (@100%)

[glacial peak]

I still need to do the math how much stuff I need to make the blue crater nodes all into rocket fuel

[brisk urchin]

is there even that much nitro on the map?

[glacial peak]

I'll do the math later

[unique cypress]

There's 12000

[fallow siren]

yep

[brisk urchin]

ah, ok lol

[brisk urchin]

i think i know 4 spots

[brisk urchin]

there are 3 oil wels?

dam

[fallow siren]

i dont remember the 3rd one

the one i remember are in swamp and crater lake

altho you could just open scim for that

[unique cypress]

Western islands

I think that one might be new to 1.0?

[glacial peak]

The blue crater nodes aren't visible on that map but yeah that's all the places I have found too

[fallow siren]

oh yeah west coast

that oil well actually made that area has the most oil

2700 in total

[unique cypress]

8100 potential plubber lol

[glacial peak]

That's where I'll make my big plastic farm later on

The wells in the middle are all for petroleum coke for electrode aluminum scrap

[brisk urchin]

ive got my power grid on the west one

the middle one i didnt know about till now

[cerulean stratus]

what do you guys think of a perfect ratio splitter, now that we have the priority merger

[queen slate]

People had an idea of "programmable splitter" being able to follow ratios that you tell it.

[cerulean stratus]

I guess the only thing that would change is make distribution a lot easier

[wind spade]

would remove the intentional challenge devs put in the game, so no

[cerulean stratus]

and priority mergers didn't?

[wind spade]

priority mergers are practically pointless

[cerulean stratus]

they help in dealing with byproducts

[wind spade]

except we could deal easily with byproducts before prio mergers

[cerulean stratus]

I think it depends on the playstyle
I found it useful whenever I wanted to inject a manifold.

[wind spade]

and I find injection manifolds as needlessly complicated compared to multiple manifolds

[cerulean stratus]

and whenever I cried about it, I'd get a "don't play it that way"

[dusky dust]

(injection manifolds were also always possible previously with just smart splitters)

Though I admit priority mergers give you a "better" way to do it

"Ratio" splitters have certainly been requested quite often over the course of the game's life. Whatever we might think of it, IMO it's clear that CSS has no desire to put them in, or they'd have done so already

Fortunately there's mods, for people who do want such a thing

[cerulean stratus]

I think there's a lot of things css didn't want to add at first, but ended up adding

[dusky dust]

CSS have made quite a few concessions to popular opinion over the game's liftetime, but there's still various aspects in which they're sticking to their guns with the intended game experience

[dusky dust]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that I want them to implement literally anything just because some players want it. :)

Anyway, time will tell

The question of "what if ratio splitters?" is just an extraordinarily tired one, is all

Sure, maybe CSS will eventually add such a thing. Personally, I doubt it, but I suppose time will tell

[vapid gorge]

they really don't. There were trivial ways of dealing with it before

[vapid gorge]

also trivial to do with smart splitters

[wind spade]

And half of those decisions were pretty shit imo

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, I would at least agree that some aspects of the game have ended up being somewhat diluted by it. Though I'm personally either ambivalent-to-accepting about most of those; even the stuff I agree was most "damaging" to core game constraints I've ended up mostly enjoying. c'est la vie!

[glacial peak]

ok maybe i wont do all the oil in blue crater for my rocket fuel plant :))))))

2400 generators god

[cerulean stratus]

honestly I think the depot is one of those things. I thought it would be like a cloud inventory, but no, every part gets multiple stacks

[unique cypress]

As someone who has modded in ratio splitters before, I'd say that having them available was worse than not having them at all like 99% of the time. Sure, that 1% of the time they came in handy, but I just spent a shit ton of time setting ratios on every single splitter for no reason or benefit

And for this 1% of cases, you can just build whatever ratio splitter you need with currently available objects

[dusky dust]

Yeah, the Depot is one of the things which did really take a scalpel to one of the game's previously-main secondary loops. Folks who had realized that building-material delivery was Just Another Problem To Solve™, instead of an annoyance, tend to not think too highly of the Depot. There's a lot of fun techniques and ways to approach that which largely just don't happen anymore, since everyone just uses the Depot now

I've personally found that in the end I don't really miss solving those problems, much; I'm reasonably fond of the Depot. And I do like that it at least takes a fair bit of effort + time to find all the spheres and build it out properly. But I do think it's a bit sad that I never did build a drone mall on my 1.0 save. :P

[glacial peak]

i dont think i would survive without the depot but it would've forced me to learn to use trains. tho the tedium of having to set up logistics for materials for every single factory that i make would make me just not want to have satellite factories nearly as much

tho it would've been useful to be made to learn trains

[cerulean stratus]

another thing was making acu on the other side of the map and using the depot to transport them

that felt cheap

[wind spade]

for me the list contains:

• depots
• hypertube canons
• power augmenters
• generic "making easier" of the game around 1.0

[unique cypress]

The 1.0 change I dislike the most is the fuel gen buff lol

They should've kept them at 150 MW, especially because now we have infinite shards to OC all of them

[fallow siren]

nah, the real buff to fuel gen is not having hmf as build cost

[unique cypress]

Oh yeah they took comps and HMFs

That should've stayed too imo

[glacial peak]

we all agree tho that biomass burners are the enlightened power method

[unique cypress]

People would've thought twice about placing hundreds of gens if it cost them a container of HMFs

[vapid gorge]

you can always just... not.

[glacial peak]

yeah no i scaled it down to just a pure oil node

i was just curious

[unique cypress]

I'd be more worried about the sulfur than the gens tbh

[glacial peak]

casual 6800 sulfur :))

[unique cypress]

They gens would just need a decent BP and a depot upgrade

[cerulean stratus]

that 1% of cases is when you're making a lot of stuff in 1 manifold and then you want to distribute them
Currently, you have 3 bad ways to do it
1- Divide it and add it with load balancers
2- Add and subtract using a second part as waste
3- Make machines be dedicated for a certain place

[dusky dust]

Train + Drone solutions to that problem tend to be quite flexible, FWIW; you don't have to reimplement the whole thing, you just need a new receiving station at your factories. And since any factory I build by that point is super likely to already need a train or drone intake anyway, it's generally not too hard of a lift

[burnt topaz]

cant you get 10800 Sulfur total?

[dusky dust]

Implementing it with vehicles would, indeed, require some extra work per site, though.

[fallow siren]

i would rather worry about the nitrogen usage, since sulfur isnt really used a lot for other stuffs than power

[glacial peak]

yeah it;s still a lot

[dusky dust]

Anyway, a bit beside the point now, since once you've got Depots sorted out, you don't really need those solutions. Still can be handy up to the midgame or so, though, unless you really prioritize Sphere-finding

[glacial peak]

yeah i said it would have made me learn trains but also that tedium doesnt feen like fun to me

[burnt topaz]

whats the power output for this?

[glacial peak]

one sec

a casual 612k mw

[dusky dust]

I suppose I've just never really understood what makes something like automated resource delivery feel "tedious" when building out the support factory itself doesn't feel "tedious." You're automating cool things in either case! And as I say, with Trains + Drones, once you've got the deliveries set up on the "source" side, you sort of never have to touch that again. Any new factory just needs a train or drone port and you're good to go

But I'll stop beating that dead horse since that kind of thing is now awfully niche for folks who still want to build that sort of thing Just Because. :)

[glacial peak]

infrastructure is way less motivating than the factories themselves for me so i tend to avoid it

i will learn trains but i just dont look forward to it

[dusky dust]

I suppose as someone whose factories basically always involve infrastructure anyway, the distinction doesn't really exist for me

[glacial peak]

i will learn trains to transport stuff like plastics and aluminum parts

[dusky dust]

I basically never have a factory that's not hooked into a vehicle/train/drone line of some sort

[glacial peak]

none of my factories are hooked up other than a conveyor highway from my plastic to the main base and to the computer factory

and 2 tractors

i will do trains but i prob wont until i really need to

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, I'm basically always extremely infrastructure'd

[glacial peak]

it just doesnt seem like a fun learning experience

[dusky dust]

IMO it makes factory building a million times easier, 'cause the question of how to get material where it's needed is just kind of baked into the construction

(Well, "a million" is hyperbole, but whatever. :)

[glacial peak]

stuff like timetables, signaling etc is not as fun as seeing a factory function self sustaining

[dusky dust]

Trains especially are absolute S-tier

[glacial peak]

idk trains dont catch my eye

in factorio they did. in this game no.

[dusky dust]

I can understand folks that don't like vehicles; they're finnicky and have had a history of unreliability prior to their last rework (which was quite awhile ago, but whatever)

[glacial peak]

i still dont know where ill set up the rail highways or how many to set up and that will be a lot to learn

[unique cypress]

My issue with trains is that they're basically useless for my playstyle until the post-endgame.
Before that it's just faster and easier to belt stuff. Because I'm not moving anything more than a kilometer

[dusky dust]

Investing in rail really multiplies in benefits the more you build out though

[glacial peak]

yeah but for that you need to do it properly which people learning wont do it right

[dusky dust]

My advice is just to let your rails build organically. You need to get material from A to B, so you set up that line. Then later on you need to get from C to D, so you build that, and maybe hook them up

[glacial peak]

otherwise you get trains stuck at junctions or issues

[dusky dust]

And maybe you like keeping your HUB + Elevator in one place, so you wire that in too

[glacial peak]

well im kinda too late for that ill prob need to do all lines at once to transfer the aluminum to where i need

[dusky dust]

Over time the bits of rail you've already build support more and more throughput, and you've got a lovely passenger rail system sitting there ready to go, too

[glacial peak]

from super computers to etc

[dusky dust]

I don't disagree that all of the logistics methods, including trains, have a learning curve

[glacial peak]

i already built most of the aluminum factory so after upgrading my power i will have to learn trains

[dusky dust]

I see plenty of people learning to do it right, though. And once you do learn it, it's second nature

And believe me, once you've seen the logistics light, you will wonder why in the world you waited so long

[glacial peak]

i'd much rather just do conveyor highways and be done with that. seeing items travel is more satisfying than a train

some of those conveyor walls are very cool

[dusky dust]

(I can empathize; my first playthrough was nearly 100% belts too. But man, IMO you really are doing yourself a disservice by not investing in infrastructure. (I use "you" in the generic sense which encompasses my Past Self as well; I don't mean you specifically. Words are hard. :))

[glacial peak]

why say more word when few word do trick fr

idk factorio trains never made me dread learning it while trains in satisfactory make me wanna avoid it like the plague

[dusky dust]

Heh, I don't disagree that my chatting would often benefit from brevity. In my soul I'm a victorian author, though. If I can write a complex sentence with a million clauses which takes like a page and a half to finally get to that period, I'll do it. :D

Factorio trains are more complex than Satisfactory's, fwiw

[glacial peak]

i learned to make text as compact as possible mostly cause i dealt with a lot of people where english is their third language at university (including me)

[dusky dust]

Anyway, enough of that; honestly not intending to advocate hard for anything. Play how you like, etc! :) I think nearly all of us have been at the "I'm only doing belts" phase early on.

[glacial peak]

tho i have a c2 cambridge certificate and i speak english daily so i have little excuse for mistakes

[glacial peak]

i advocate for eating cast screws

it's good for the bones

idk but figuring out the layout of the nitro rocket fuel plant already tired me enough that i think im not gonna open the game today. might need a break to unfry my brain

[haughty barn]

Anyone have suggestions on where to build a nuclear power plant?

[wind spade]

That's actully a change I very much agree with

[burnt topaz]

i advocate for Nf3 d5 e4 in chess but thats not good either

[glacial peak]

damn.

[wind spade]

Going from 75MW to 150MW to 2500MW felt weird

[vapid gorge]

on water 🙂 you can make the rods elsewhere and drone them in

[glacial peak]

ive seen a lot of nuclear plants made on the western ocean

far away from land

[vapid gorge]

over any water is fine. Close works as well

[haughty barn]

Fuck it, I’ll make it in the desert

[burnt topaz]

i went from 1800 to 2500 to 22500

[unique cypress]

the geometric mean of 75 and 2500 is 433. so 400/450 would be even more in the middle

[vapid gorge]

you can stack multiple floors at the coast

[glacial peak]

goodluck 🫡

[burnt topaz]

same here

[haughty barn]

Haven’t even finished phase 1

[burnt topaz]

nobody needs those phases

theyre propaganda

[haughty barn]

Had a lot of fun planning it and the spelevator, though

[burnt topaz]

you need nuclear to be able to build a proper factory for phase 1 parts

[glacial peak]

my brain is too fried foor satisfactory rn 💀
I guess it's finally time to take aday break this month from the game

[haughty barn]

Sir this isn’t satisfactory plus

[burnt topaz]

no

the factory must grow

Ive had a little less than 3 hours of sleep today, wont stop me

[glacial peak]

yeah sorry but the trains talk and trying to figure out the layout of the rocket fuel plant tired me out

[glacial peak]

same i had like 4 hrs

[burnt topaz]

ngl i just build my traintracks and havnt worried about the rest yet

havnt even setup a single train

I know that i'll have a bunch of problems with that in the future but thats a future me problem

[glacial peak]

i already talked a bit higher about how trains make me feel so i avoid that issue until i really need to deal with it

[wind spade]

well I didn't say it should go in similar steps, nuclear should obviously be a bigger step due to its "disadvantage" in the form of waste

[wind spade]

... I mean per gen

[burnt topaz]

oi oi oi

fair

i forgot

[thorn bane]

nuclear gens are bigger though
so adjusted for area (width * height) its

75/(10*26);250/(20*20);2500/(36*43)
=0.29,0.62,1.62

geometric mean between 0.29 ad 1.62 is 0.68 so pretty close to 0.62

[true loom]

UR SMARTER THAN ILL EVER BE 😭

[rugged pecan]

i feel like my math is wrong bc i have a lot of Polymer Resin left after using it all, Because i am getting 1,200 Oil that goes in 20 refinely's for base fuel that should be 600/2 is 300 in to making rubber and plastic all base recipes , that should go to 7.5 & 5 refinelys but i have a lot more resin left

[leaden kite]

there is a META and I didnt know about it???

I need more Braincells... anyone got some to spare?

[fossil galleon]

made this 4 to 5 load balancer, anyone got a better design? 😂

[unique cypress]

This isn't even a proper balancer 🤣

though it's close

you need to use 4:1 balancers for the 2nd half, not a manifold

the 1:5 1st stage looks fine, I think

and no, there isn't really a better design

[fossil galleon]

this is a balancer, did you watch the video?

works perfectly

[unique cypress]

I did. and I can tell you it's not input balanced

[fossil galleon]

hmm

shit

[unique cypress]

you only showed output balancing

but like I said, you only need to swap the vertical manifold for a vertical 4:1 balancer

or leave it as is, if you don't care about it being input balanced

[fossil galleon]

it should work though? I'm splitting every input 5 ways, and merging with vertical mergers in the end. why wouldn't it be input balanced?

maybe I just don't know what input balancing means

[unique cypress]

you're merging with a manifold, which means if all belts are full, half would be pulled from the bottom, 1/4 from the 2nd and 1/8th from the 3rd and 4th

[fossil galleon]

oh yeah, sure. my belts will always be flowing though, so it should be fine?

you seem like you know what you're talking about lol

[unique cypress]

it'll only be an issue when unloading a "depart when empty/full" train

otherwise I don't think it matters

at least not much

[fossil galleon]

sick, thanks

[haughty barn]

I made 4 1:5 balancers and merged the outputs into 5 lanes

Better? Definitely not

[vapid gorge]

set the 4 belts to have an overflow to fill the 5th

[past igloo]

Are there any biomes that are recommended to save to use for the production of a particular component? For instance the blue crater for rocket fuel.

Assuming you have access to all recipes

And that this falls under the meta category of question haha

[vapid gorge]

continuing on I wouldn't be too concerned with it. Once you unlock everythign and finish your phases, you're free to level everything.

when you're doing your own projects make a world plan, break it down into hubs and then plan their locations accordingly

[past igloo]

Yea I’m in the process of making my world plan right now actually!

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ is great for that. Make the main tab, then start editing inputs to create individual hubs.

like if you have a super computer section in your main plan, add them in as an 'input' clone the tab with recipes and recreate the super computer output

I also keep track of resources available in regions with a spread sheet that self updates

[proud totem]

Is there any way for conveyor throughputs to check items over a longer span of time? Even after letting them sit for a while, my 20 HMF line reads anywhere between 17 and 22. I assume the average over a longer time would be 20, but the current time it uses to check seems to be somewhat short

[supple gazelle]

It’s pretty inaccurate for any count under 30/min unfortunately, due to the way it reads belts.

You can still manually math it from machine uptime

[proud totem]

It seems to be similar for my 400 lines though too. Granted the range it is off is roughly the same (+- 2 or so), but that's less of a problem for a larger number

[fallow siren]

especially for machine that outputting items in burst, its not very accurate

it will fluctuates

[proud totem]

I mean, I've done my best to document my lines anyways, since I built all of this before the update

Cuz yeah, it seems that it only looks back at rates over a shorter time, allowing bursts to actually affect the final average

[supple gazelle]

I do wish there was a higher accuracy mode, just with a warning that over-deployment will hurt frame rate or something. But eh, I’m used to the old way of guess and check by machine uptime

[fallow siren]

i only use them to check my rates, if its at the average number that i want, i just dismantle it

cuz i know its the correct number anyway

[proud totem]

I guess where it would be nicer is for dealing with my train lines. I have a smelting area that makes a ton of iron and I use it in various places, and it can be hard to keep track of how much each place uses (since it seems the train stations use a similar method of counting), to determine how much is left on the train line for use

[supple gazelle]

I still haven’t found a better way to monitor trains other than “watch it”; especially since the average train route is about 5 minutes and need 2-3 trips to verify it’s working as intended, it’s a big time sink.

[proud totem]

Oh yeah, I've done a lot of watch it before 😂 That's why I was hoping the throughput sensor was better accuracy, so that I wouldn't have to watch it, and then I could have a better number to put with it. Because yeah, really I'd just want at most like 10 sensors at once for sanity checks/debugging purposes, but then are removed after

What's funny is that drones seem to be more accurate

So maybe the way to debug is have some drones flying the items around and use that counter

[supple gazelle]

I guess drones were programmed with the expectation they’d be used for lower throughput, I haven’t paid attention to that but it makes sense tbh

[vapid gorge]

It sounds like you have an unstable production line

[proud totem]

Their fuel usage even has 2 decimal places (though that might be a simple calculation, rather than from analyzing throughput)

[vapid gorge]

but yeah if this is from vehicles? the way you check is if your system stays with green lights

[proud totem]

The line definitely is fine, I'm just using the heavy encased frame recipe. All machines are at 100% and sum up to 20/min. Its just the time to produce is too long

[proud totem]

Well yeah, the percentage runtimes for machines remain the most helpful, like was mentioned earlier. I just really liked the idea of the throughput sensors

[haughty barn]

desert has lots of iron and some limestone for hmf

[vapid gorge]

I don't think it'd work, especially since vehicle deliveries aren't guaranteed to be teh same amoutn of time each time

[vapid gorge]

if you completely flooded the delivery point, by pausing the consumption machines, you might get something vaguely accurate?

I've never seen the point of throughput sensors honestly

[proud totem]

For example, if a machine takes 64 seconds to produce (that's what these HMF are) but then a sensor only looks back at, say, the last 60 seconds, there is a 4 second window where there will be guaranteed reading a 0, and that messes with the average

[vapid gorge]

either my machines are working or not

so either it's at 100% throughput, or I have to fix something

[vapid gorge]

yeah look, they probably just threw those sensors in because people bitched for them.

[proud totem]

I mean, I am train-afolding since I think its fun having a train go and drop off at various points, so my stations are saturated

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah. I don't think yo'ure going to get custom sensors for them soz.
it's a game about consistent input/outputs

[proud totem]

Technically it is consistent over a long time, but the output does actually fluctuate. Like soranei mentioned earlier, the machines output items in burst, and so while the average output measured as time -> inf approaches a constant number, the output does come in spikes.

This is especially true when it comes to fluids. I've had many a time where a machine is running at something like 95% uptime. Almost all the time when I visually look, the light is green, but the internal buffer doesn't fill up, and the machine goes yellow for a split second

[vapid gorge]

that's how it goes xD if you any segment of time where all the lights are green it'll avg out

also don't trust the efficiency meters

[vapid gorge]

if that's happening you have a pipe layout issue most likely

[proud totem]

Yes, or HL, or any other number of problems. My point being, just because all the machines "worked" at one point doesn't mean it works all the time. I've honestly had really good luck with the efficiency meters

And that's where more accurate sensors could be useful, for diagnosing issues and putting some actual numbers behind them 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

yes but if you stare at the row of green lights for 1 minute that essentiall yguarantees a functioning system

[proud totem]

I've had many a time where that has not been the case unfortunately 😂

[vapid gorge]

then you're making mistakes :\

and not building stable systems

really weird ones

or just missing a flashing light

[proud totem]

That's the point I'm making, 1 minute of green lights does not imply stability

[vapid gorge]

but it should. Most likely issue is you're actually missing the yellow flashes

I've got 3.5k hours in and I've only seen that sort of thing once in a really niche fluid system

and that's because it took 6hrs for the system to drain

[proud totem]

That's the thing. The yellow flashes are there. But there are absolutely times where the yellow flashes are infrequent, where you need longer than a minute to see them

I'm not saying they won't appear, because if there is never a yellow light, there isn't a problem

[vapid gorge]

Might be missing some of them :\ flood the system and you'll see an issue very quickly

In any case I don't think a longer sampling would work.

sampling direclty after the outputs of the machines would be an option as well when vehicles are involved

[proud totem]

But that's the thing. In a system that does have issues, an issue does not necessarily present itself immediately. Especially like you said, when vehicles are involved. But the issue could be subtle, e.g. 396 items/min when there should be 400. Its a very small amount, and incredibly easy to miss. The only way you find it is with time, where the average over a long time diverges from the average over a short time

Hence why longer sampling (potentially in the realm of hours even) would be a useful tool to have

[vapid gorge]

once you flooded the system? sure
but at the same time the output meter even over a longer time, wouldn't give you unstable output numbers until much later

this is not something a sensor will fix in any way. and if it's something you come back to in an hour and things are starving , the yellow lights will be very obvious

[proud totem]

Yes, but a yellow light is not a number. A sensor doesn't fix anything, it only helps to diagnose

[vapid gorge]

same as the yellow lights as you come back to a dying system >.>

and the sensor, as it is now, will also tell you something is off then

adding that extra scan time will do zilch.

nada, nyet, nothing. Sweet fuck all.

[proud totem]

But that's the thing, my HMF factory, which does 20/min, and has 0 problems (it's been running for ages, has no issues, and I've calculated the output by physically timing it and seeing how many items end up in a box after 1 hour), reports between 17-21 on the sensor

But if the sensor ran for an hour, it would report the same 20 I get from my own calculation

But in any case, that seems the better option anyways, to manually test and get my own numbers anyways

[frosty owl]

If only we had something that plotted a graph covering several minutes that relates directly to wether machines are working or not regardless of where the machines are... Then we could actually check the past ~120s to immediately see wether any machine was turning on/off or not!

If only... wink wink, nudge nudge

Don't get me wrong, having a sensor capable of showing hours of machine efficiency would be interesting. But power graphs are already miles ahead of just checking production lights and can give accurate and useful info, even if they cover just over minute of data

Bonus points (IMO) for being something one has to figure out rather than just "slap down the object made specifically for that, done"

This is not #screenshots or #design-and-architecture...

[cyan cypress]

my bad, thought i was in design

[gloomy shoal]

"Do not do this"

[fervent knoll]

Can someone explain me why this loops?

[oblique hollow]

Because it makes water

Alumina solution needs water
Aluminum scrap takes alumina and makes scrap and water

Water goes back to alumina production

[fervent knoll]

But how would this work? For aluminum scrap I need the solution and for the solution I need the water which come from the scrap? It doesnt work

[oblique hollow]

Yes it works.
You need fresh water too

[fervent knoll]

But wouldnt I have to jump start the system to run?

[oblique hollow]

No, its not a closed loop

you don't get as much water back as you put in

You only get like 66.66% back

[crimson moat]

70% or 60% depending on recipe

[oblique hollow]

If you don't wanna loop, then don't

And instead find a different use for the water that comes out of scrap refineres

[unique cypress]

Kinda unrelated, but I suggest you choose a different calculator to use from now on. SCIM's production planner is the absolute worst calculator for this game I know of

I suggest Satisfactory Tools

[zenith sandal]

Is there a good way to "delete" the water?

Like automatically

Because I dont necessarily want to just make it go into a fluid buffer and flush it every once in a while

[fallow siren]

make into solid like pure ingot or wet concrete

or just recycle back the water into the system

[wind spade]

Why do you have excess water in the first place?

[zenith sandal]

aluminum production

[wind spade]

recycle it back into the system

[burnt topaz]

excess water? whats that

never heard of that

[vapid gorge]

like so. Blue is fresh, red is waste

[wind spade]

I need to save that schematic will all the alu recipes

idk where it is, I always have to search the discord 😄

[vapid gorge]

I find a lot of people have a hard time understanding it though

[wind spade]

aluminum loop recycling waste water example (I hope these are enough keywords to find it later)

[full tangle]

Trying to lay roads out of a cave, what a pain lmao

Maybe I' ll just off-road this part and make it nice outside 😛

[short spoke]

if im making 1755 Alum ignot a min. How much should i dedicate to sheets and how much to cases for later t7 and t8. Dont know the math yet

[full tangle]

I had 1/3rd of my production in sheets in my last save, I did not need that much in the end tbh, my best guess would be 20-25% maybe

[amber umbra]

@short spoke Either pick numbers randomly or look up the rest of the items in the phase to do the math, plan it out.

It depends heavily on how you specifically want to choose alts and split up factories. People here can’t answer for you.

[full tangle]

You can use satisfactory modeler from steam, it's free software, you can put in numbers and see how much and what of everything

Plan out your entire factory

[amber umbra]

“do the math” just means “use Satisfactory Tools, etc.”.

If you like playing in that way, all good. Many people like planning things out more.

[wind spade]

keep them as ingots. When you need some specific amount of sheets or casings for some factory, make that amount. Don't try to guess what you'll need in the future, unless you actually know how much you'll need

[amber umbra]

Yea shipping ingots is what I settled on doing. Although then the question is how many ingots to make with the same answer.

[wind spade]

yeah, if you've already made ingots, keep them, if you are planning to make ingots, I wouldn't make them in advance

[honest path]

Huh, me and a friend were just thinking about min-maxing aluminum

Took us a solid hour of making a system that doesn't clog

[compact lake]

Do fluid backups stall machines like belt backups do?

[honest path]

In the end I solved the problem with valves

[amber umbra]

Chat is compelled

[honest path]

Yup, that's why alumina production is so annoying to min-max

[wind spade]

then you didn't solve it, just dealyed it. Use one of the schemas from above, which give you much better solution

[honest path]

Likely will come bite us in the rear

[compact lake]

Is there a way to auto flush pipes when a buffer is full?
Im just trying to make bullets

[honest path]

For now it works tho, we had several industrial containers filled up with ingots

[wind spade]

valves are not recommended, instead separate fresh and recycled water

[honest path]

I gotta check in when we start up playing in a bit

But I guess we're far from the only ones with the problem

[fallow siren]

i have all the numbers for aluminum so its very easy to do separate waste and fresh water in the system

its just much easier to do

[versed violet]

Remember that according to environmental regulations, you cannot just flush waste water onto the floor (except in emergency), you need to purify it first. Limestone is known for being good purifying agent and the recovered sediment can be used for construction filler.

[honest path]

Our first idea was packaging the excess water in plastic containers and throwing those in the sink instead

[magic island]

Never liked that approach because you have to bring in canisters (plastic or multiple ores) just to produce something that you're going to sink. Whereas you could instead just combine the water with a random nearby ore (pure ingots, wet concrete, coal power) for something useful.

[vapid gorge]

splitting fresh and waste up is much simpler >.>
blue is fresh, red is waste

[honest path]

This is how we have it

Covered by nut: Mk2 pump

Using sloppy recipe

[burnt topaz]

Can anyone help me math something out? Im trying to build something archlike and cant find orientation points, i know 3 points i want to use
A (x = 152, y = 0)
B (x = 120, y= 140)
C (x = 132, y = 206)
I need "orientation" points for y = 10, 20, 30 etc

[deft lichen]

gave this to chatgpt to see if it can figure something out

[wind spade]

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/213658/get-the-equation-of-a-circle-when-given-3-points

once you have circle center, you can easily use it's formula to define any point on a circle

[deft lichen]

you're looking for the centerpoint and a radius

[wind spade]

why use AI when we have stackexchange

[deft lichen]

lol it actually works

a rare case...

[deft lichen]

I can DM you a python script that generates these for provided y coordinates

tested 0, 140, 206 and all passed with only 0.0X errors

[wind spade]

python 🤢

[deft lichen]

for once this is actually the primary use case of python

quick hacky scripts

[wind spade]

yeah but languages without braces suck

[deft lichen]

this needn't be performant

[wind spade]

or rather, indentation-based languages suck

(and I'm completely fine with having my hacky scripts in javascript or php)

[deft lichen]

I don't really have a preference for either, but I really missed static typing when working on a bigger project

[wind spade]

typescript 😉

(and PHP is getting there as well, just doesn't have collections)

and javascript has this great advantage that you don't need any interpreter or anything to run it 🙂 just open a browser window and run it in console 😄

[burnt topaz]

idk how that works, but if you give me short instruction gladly so

radius seems to be = 262,90

[deft lichen]

that matches what chatgpt found

you'd need to install an interpreter, but I can ask it to convert it to javascript

and then you'll just run it in your browser

[burnt topaz]

oops

[deft lichen]

https://planetcalc.com/8116/

[honest path]

Wasn't there a simple formula you could use? Based on the 2 lines with points on the circle, and the angle between them

[burnt topaz]

yea thats what i used for the radius

[burnt topaz]

gladly so

would appreciate it

[wind spade]

I don't think 2 lines can give you circle. You need either 3rd point or radius

[deft lichen]

you could express both the circle and the line at a given y as a system of equations and solve for x,y

or by solving generally, derive a formula

@wind spade thanks for the JS idea

[burnt topaz]

thank you very much Ondar

[tropic urchin]

Hey, on the topic of circle math, can you help me figure out how im supposed to math this road so both sides come out at the same angle and and with the same width for the center part

[unique cypress]

Make all arcs as sections of concentric circles and I think it'll work

[tropic urchin]

so i should span both angles from the same catwalk?

[dense crest]

Hey all whats the best way to grind for the Golden Nut?

i have 450 tickets currently and ive been grinding tickets but i wondered whats the best bang for your buck sinking wise

[wind spade]

sink all overflow production. If that's stilll too slow, make dedicated to-sink production of some high-value item (e.g. project parts)

[unique cypress]

The more steps an item takes to make, the more valuable it is

Both per item, and per the raw resource cost

So you should make the most advanced item you can

If you're in phase 5, that's ballistic warp drives

Though singularity cells aren't bad either, and a lot easier to make

[haughty barn]

I’m gonna save the nut grind until after I finish phase 5

So I can sink all my parts

[brisk urchin]

dna capsules are also great, requires manual farming tho

[haughty barn]

Luckily you get plenty from just exploring

Especially if you use sloops

[old hearth]

@keen brook

[cerulean stratus]

So how do you guys like to deal with modular frames

[unique cypress]

steeled frame, iron pipe, stitched plate, iron wire, pure iron

[cerulean stratus]

Aren't you afraid that's a lot of iron drain. I know iron is plentiful, but a lot of locations have a limit on the iron

[unique cypress]

I mean it's only 10 ore per frame. how many do you really need?

and it takes a lot fewer machines than any other option

[cerulean stratus]

10 ore per frame, with steeled frame and iron pipe?

[unique cypress]

I could get it down to half that by using 1 coal, and 0.166 oil, but at the cost of a lot more machines

[cerulean stratus]

Ok I guess you're right

Btw, I was playing with adjustable splitters and I had an idea
Basically having input, buffer, distribution and then output

[unique cypress]

this is another chain I'd consider

[vivid heron]

how do you make that thing that's awesome

[unique cypress]

Satisfactory Tools

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[vivid heron]

is it on the game?

oh, thx

[cerulean stratus]

You really like iron pipe

[unique cypress]

I mean this is fine too but more steps and more machines

and HMFs need pipes anyway

and it's not like the iron cost is an issue

I'd only use oil if the frames are needed for a factory that already needs oil for something else

so that's like tier 7/8

before that, I use the iron-only setup

maybe swap the iron pipe with default pipe and solid steel if I don't have the iron but have coal

[marble girder]

can someone give me a quick explanation on what do i have to do to calculate the oil per minute that i have coming in through my train station? like, what do i need to have in mind when calculating this? trip time, etc

i'm trying to set up a blend turbo fuel factory and would be nice to not waste oil

[spare tapir]

The plans for me and my friend's "starter base"

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch tutorial:train+throughput

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=tutorial:train+throughput

[cerulean stratus]

thoughts on using a input - buffer - output method?

[spare tapir]

1 tip from me: fluid cars look cool, but are way less efficient than packaging the oil and transporting it using freight cars, unpackiging it, and sending the empty cannisters back

[unique cypress]

elaborate?

[cerulean stratus]

machines take stuff from the buffer and the buffer goes down. Then you increase the input until the buffer goes up

[marble girder]

that makes a lot of sense, i don't even need to make more cannisters

imma look into into

[unique cypress]

why...?

[cerulean stratus]

because it's possible

[spare tapir]

for some rough freight car numbers: fluid cars transport 1600m3 max iirc, and freight cars can transport 32 stacks.
1 stack of packaged oil is 100, so that would come down to 3200m3 transported. I never tried it, but make sure that the oil gets unpacked fast enough so that as many empty canisters as possible can get sent back

I'm no expert on trains tho, never did more than to fool around with them

[cerulean stratus]

although more accurately, because it's interesting comparing to making predictable factories, or expandable factories
it's also efficient in a way. Making too much? sink it. And with the new throughput counters this way can actually be possible

[unique cypress]

in order to get the benefits of packaging, you need to use a 2nd set of stations to load/unload the empty canisters

[cerulean stratus]

why not a second wagon

[unique cypress]

you don't get double the throughput due to extra stops, but it's at least 60% extra. gets close to 2x on long routes

[unique cypress]

because then your train is half full on both trips and you lose all benefits

[spare tapir]

That is a downside yeah, you need 4 stations for 1 route

[cerulean stratus]

You can do stuff to mitigate that.
reusing wagons, sushi trains

[slow apex]

what's a good way to prevent train item overflow?

[unique cypress]

elaborate?

[unborn dome]

Is it just me or do control rods kinda suck to make in the quantities they're needed in? 😕

I need 20/min for 4/min of uranium fuel rods, and seems to require setting up a fairly large control rod factory just for that

[haughty barn]

Everything sucks to make in the quantities they’re needed in

But yeah that seems kind of bad

[unborn dome]

Any thoughts on the default recipe versus the one that takes high-speed connectors? HSC kinda suck to make too, so I'm leaning towards default.

[unique cypress]

They're similar tbh

Alt saves caterium at the cost of quartz

[unborn dome]

Yeah, not a clear winner between the two.

[haughty barn]

Uhh lemme see what I used

yeah the alt sucks

saves on stators i guess

which you can make with just iron

[unborn dome]

AI limiters are better than HSC I guess, but the copper sheets are simple-but-annoying

It's too bad Steamed Copper Sheet doesn't have a higher yield per refinery, even if it takes the same amount of resources overall as what it is now.

[unique cypress]

Yeah, the ECR alt sux

1 stator instead of 1.5 but several times more QW

[unborn dome]

Seems decent? More caterium, but if the only iron and copper nodes nearby are normal-purity, this could work.

[unique cypress]

That's the default

[unborn dome]

Yeah default ECR but I mean the alt combo on the stuff leading into it

[haughty barn]

the stator alt 💀

[unborn dome]

Not sure yet if I have enough iron nearby to do iron wire along with the iron pipes.

[unique cypress]

Yeah, come on, if you're using iron pipe, use iron wire and default stator

[tropic urchin]

yo can someone whos good at satisfactory modeler give me a hand

[unique cypress]

Pure iron

[unborn dome]

And there's a pure caterium node at the place I'm looking haha

[haughty barn]

how many rods are you making?

[unborn dome]

I had said 20/min earlier, but when I work that out to eventual ficsonium to consume all that waste, it's 35/min ECR

[unique cypress]

If you're doing steamed sheets anyway, you might as well use all pure recipes

[unborn dome]

Because of the water?

[unique cypress]

Unless you can stay within one node/cluster without them then I guess whatever

[haughty barn]

less than 500 iron for all the stators

[unborn dome]

I'm thinking the oasis in the western dune desert

[haughty barn]

and the desert already has a ton of iron

[unborn dome]

Yeah I guess at least one of those other normal nodes isn't too far away

Since there's copper there anyway, I just used regular wire, less constructors that way.

Everyone's gonna hate this but what about the Caterium Wire alt? The yield is massive

[tropic urchin]

why not use fused quickwire?

[unborn dome]

That uses a lot more copper than I have. Just a normal node

Even with a 250% mk3 miner

[tropic urchin]

fair enough, if your not going big, convienience is always better

[unborn dome]

Yeah I'm trying to keep things as tidy as possible while still achieving the various milestones and stuff.

[lyric sorrel]

so the smelter part is easy though i build 16 smelters and have 2 of them run on 25% instead of 15 and one on 15... symetry and stuff but hor am i supposed to split the lines like that

[vapid gorge]

what's your fastest belt speed?

ok so have you not used manifolds before mk4 belts before?

[lyric sorrel]

no i have but i mostly have one thing produced in one cluster of smelters etc

never with multiple different product outputs in one place

[vapid gorge]

just a manifold will do then

it'll self balance

or, as mentioned above, create 3 groups of smelters that produce ingots in those 3 groups you need

the 2nd method is good when your destinations aren't in the same spot and you want less belting

although technically you could still do it the 1st way with less belting... But that's more of a design and aesthetic thing

[lyric sorrel]

thanks i guess ill have to build the floor a bit bigger than anitcipated at first bit i now have an idea how ill handle it 😄

[vapid gorge]

or build multiple floors 🙂

building in 3d can really help factory management

[vapid gorge]

oh and 2nd method would look more like this

[lyric sorrel]

i think illgo with option 1

[vapid gorge]

if the 3 production sections are right next to each other no real reason not to 🙂

[lyric sorrel]

they all go to the motors so in the end they in some form or another end in the same place

[vapid gorge]

well... I guess if the screws are being used else where you'd probably want to make a belt for the screws . Life is easier when you make screws right where they get used

[pulsar canopy]

is fertile uranium better if I'm using all of the uranium on the map and going for maximum amount of power? Or should i just run with alternate uranium recipes and then normal plutonium and ficsonium recipes?

[vapid gorge]

you get a bigger bang for your bug just maxing uranium rods iirc

also, burn your plu rods in drones or something. no waste

[pulsar canopy]

nah im going for fics cause i want max amount of nuclear reactors

unless there's literally not enough resources on the map for it, then imma try and get 126 ficsonium fuel rods/m

[vapid gorge]

fics? doesn't a nuclear generator chew ficsonium up like candy?

and max ficsonium is a bit of a bullshit game, gotta do calculus with SAM and conversion and sloops

[fallow siren]

max ficsonium is impossible outside creative world where there basically nothing

youre going to use all sam and bauxite just for ficsonium

[vapid gorge]

well it's less that it's 'impossible' and more that you have to do a complex math to see where the maximum out put is depending on where and what you convert

there is a vanilla maximum, I've just never seen anyone do the math for it

[dusky dust]

Yeah, need a linear programming solver a la sftools which can factor all that stuff in, but that's a nontrivial amount of work

[unborn dome]

@vapid gorge I guess you're right, it's not completely awful as long as the pressure conversion cubes and control rods are still shipped in.

[vapid gorge]

even the cubes aint bad 🙂 it's only 1.5 pm

[unborn dome]

Also already making the cubes at the cubes factory 😅

Outputs all the cubes up the chain, as well as some other byproducts like encased industrial beams

Actually, if I made the nitric acid on-site, that would solve the water problem too, and I'd have 240/min nitric acid from the main acid factory for my alt-recipe FMFs and the rest for rocket fuel.

[burnt topaz]

you can get 150/m i think

[severe girder]

Circles, kinda like squares, but less squarey

[burnt topaz]

im doing the same, heres my production line, at the top you can see what im inputting and what alt recipes/buildings im using

calculated the buildings using 3 energy shards in each of them

300 nuclear waste = 150 fics fuel rod i think

[wind spade]

out of curiosity, why excel and not some of the existing online tools?

[burnt topaz]

i really didnt like the production lines shown on SCIM etc

[wind spade]

scim planner is pretty crap, yeah

[burnt topaz]

excel seems easiest since i could add other information too

[wind spade]

have you tried any other one?

[burnt topaz]

nope, dont know any else than SCIM and another one i forgot the name of

but tbf that one wasnt made for satisfactory and you had to enter everything yourself

[wind spade]

if you feel like it, you can try mine - https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

maybe it will help you a bit (or you'll get back to excel, your choice 😛 )

[burnt topaz]

ill try it later thanks

at work right now, not much to do tho

[sage belfry]

For something like https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=uK2JCtZvK4m4k4kywepg, which takes 16.8k cubic meters of water, I could either directly pipe it or use a package/unpackage cycle; water doesn’t compress so that’s 14 belts of packaged water rather than 28 pipes. Is adding packaging cycle worth the trouble for removal of headlift shenanigans?

[wind spade]

no, just add a pump

[burnt topaz]

Im gonna need like 225 Pipes for this too, 135k Water required

Pipes or packaging it?

my reactor is in the desert

45 Reactors for Uranium Fuel Rod
120 Reactors for Plutonium Fuel Rods
60 Reactors for Ficsonium Fuel Rods (might sink this tbh)

[kindred carbon]

What’s the max power from uranium + plutonium?

[burnt topaz]

I calculared 1031250MW

or 1 TW

[kindred carbon]

Can’t sink the ficsonium

[kindred carbon]

Packaging the water would require a literal millions of contraineds

Containers* and like 1k packagers

So def piping

135k/min water is 112 mk6 belts

[burnt topaz]

yea figured pipes would be better

was just an idea

isnt there some trick/bug to abuse not having to use pumps?

[kindred carbon]

are you planning to take it up really high?

[wind spade]

no reason to package fluids to move

build near fluids, don't move them far

[burnt topaz]

need alot of space for my reactors

[kindred carbon]

The ocean has a lot of space so I wouldn’t worry about it

North of the map in the rocky desert is a great place to build

Also you can get pretty space efficient with the reactors + extractors and make it into a blueprint

[wind spade]

oceans are huge

[kindred carbon]

So you would blueprint the reactor, have a platform underneath that connects it to 2 water extractors

You can make even make it with blueprint auto connect so that you won’t need to worry about connecting the water and belts for the waste and fuel

[burnt topaz]

alright

[kindred carbon]

This is a great spot to build

You have around 200 foundations from land

Just map out the world border and space accordingly

[unique cypress]

1.19 TW if you're willing to store the waste

And assuming only using natural uranium and no sloops

[burnt topaz]

howd you get to 1.19?

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=E1cmKlqmHpXlhGhtLRaa

[burnt topaz]

How'd you get to 50.4 and 22.4?

[fallow siren]

50.4 is max uranium rod with 2100/min uranium

using infused uranium cell alt

[wind spade]

isn't fertile uranium better if you want more power? 🤔

[unique cypress]

Nope, you get 1.05 TW

[burnt topaz]

i was planning to use fertile uranium alt

at 1.03 TW, but thats using 2062.5 Uranium/M

was wondering cuz i get 22.5 Uranium Fuel Rods and 30 Plutonium Fuel Rods per min

[unique cypress]

Any more uranium rods and you need more than 2100 uranium

50.4 rods becomes 2520 waste

2520 waste and no fertile alt becomes a maximum of 22.4 plutonium rods

[burnt topaz]

do i really have to replan

yea i figured

[wind spade]

you won't need that much power most likely anyway

[burnt topaz]

However Fertile Uranium is better if you use the ficsonium right

[unique cypress]

Nope 🙃

[burnt topaz]

😡

whats the difference

[unique cypress]

Without Fertile (so 112 Ficsonium) - 1.47 TW

With fertile - ~153 Ficsonium - ~1.432 TW

[burnt topaz]

hmm thats not alot

might have to look over it again

without fertile its probably more material cost rigjt

50.4 uranium fuel rods vs 22.5 fuel rods

[unique cypress]

Uranium is the cheapest

The more Plutonium and Ficsonium you make, the more expensive it is

My analysis on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/s/jCuIUopTw9

[unique cypress]

^ these are all for 250 GW of generation so it's not like you get more power for that cost with more Ficsonium

It all depends on the recipe choices of course, this is all optimized for lowest WP with the exception of resource conversion

[somber sedge]

so x is the number of carts, t is the time for a total trip by the train

i need 500m^3/min

and one cart can store 1600 fluid

[unique cypress]

Assuming you're not limited by the platforms' transfer speed

[somber sedge]

simplifying further we get dis

[somber sedge]

ill overclock the water extractors

[unique cypress]

That doesn't change anything but at 500/min, I don't think the platforms are gonna be an issue

[somber sedge]

if time is 6.5, we get a little over 2 carts

[unique cypress]

Especially if there's more than 1

[somber sedge]

this is not satisfacory at all

im gonna need a third cart to account for that 0.03125

[limpid vapor]

transporting extra is fine i think, i have a quartz train that has 4 cars, also a bunch of containers hooked to the stations on both pickup and drop off, it takes a while until the train can fully unload so it just sits there, but i dont have to worry about throughput

[somber sedge]

if i add one more engine to the train, how does that affect the way the train lines up? im guessing everything will get offset back so ill need to rebuild everything

[unique cypress]

You can move the station 16m forward and put an empty platform in its place

Then you won't have to move the freight platforms

[somber sedge]

then id have to do that with every other station too then

hm maybe i could have two trains instead

does the train slow down even if a cart is completly empty?

[unique cypress]

I mean yes? The front locomotive is the one that stops at the station station, so if you add another one in front, the wagons get shifted back by 1

But you can also add a locomotive to the back

[somber sedge]

would that affecy speed

[unique cypress]

Speed depends on number of locomotives, number of wagons, the wagons' fill level, incline angle and turn radius

[somber sedge]

wait this solves everything. tysm

[somber sedge]

like such?

[unique cypress]

Yeah

Though be careful of locomotives sticking out the backs of stations

If you're signalling, you'll have to take that into account

[somber sedge]

nono

i have only one train in the entire sustem

hmmmm i need to get the water from there to the place

This is the general order how they need to go

Maybe I need to stop forcing everything on one train

[kindred carbon]

Can you turn that into ficsonium if you sloop the SAM

[kindred carbon]

Build a pipeline

[unique cypress]

All of my trains carry exactly one item each, and all of them have exactly 2 stops on their schedule

Well, except the packaged fluid trains

[kindred carbon]

Or build near the water

Are you trying to build in the giant pit?

[unique cypress]

Yes, but it's only 280 GW extra

[kindred carbon]

If so, just make a pipeline as you’ll need more water in the future

Trains aren’t very scalable vs laying a bunch of pipes

[kindred carbon]

What’s the net power?

[somber sedge]

Water is too far away

Too vertical

[kindred carbon]

With blueprints for water pumping stations it’s less effort and more scalable than building a train

[somber sedge]

A water pumping station?

[kindred carbon]

It’s a fancy name for a platform with pumps attached to pump

[digital crow]

and that actually helps?

[unique cypress]

Depends on the recipes. Tools with all recipes except conversion says 209 GW consumption, so +71 net

[kindred carbon]

Yes blueprints save a lot of time

With blueprint auto connect bringing 18 pipes of water will take hour an max

That’s 10.8k/min water

It will be a while until he needs more

Good luck building that many trains to handle that throughput

[kindred carbon]

Would definitely take hours and hours to build all of that tho

[fallow siren]

71GW net is very small compared to amount of resources it needs

just bin all the plut waste

[unique cypress]

Yup. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=OWeKJhJMrc1mP4mPEMyu

3000 machines lmao

[elfin rock]

why is it not stable, im producing 20 steeled frames/min, using 7 assemblers
Alt rec: cast screws, steeled frame

[unique cypress]

And if you OC everything, the +34% power cost brings almost exactly to 280 GW consumption lmao

If you only want to build 1200 machines, you're back to net 0

1000+ machines, 2/3 of the map's bauxite, 180% of the map's SAM and all you gain is getting rid of half a stack of waste per min

[kindred carbon]

22 nuclear pasta and needs almost all the Sam in the world if you sloop it

[kindred carbon]

How does it change with your mod?

[unique cypress]

Tools doesn't (really) have modded recipe support so you'll have to wait like 2 hours until I'm home and able to pull up Optimizer

But one of my mods doubles the Ficsonium rod yields per plut waste, and another doubles rod power

So it's 4x more production

Plus now fertile is worth using so that's 80 more Fics rods

Though I'm pretty sure fertile would now gain only like 60 GW

So it'd be 2.565 TW of total power production from 2090 uranium

But I'll have to check the power and resource consumption

[vapid gorge]

first step of trouble shooting, look at the machines that are unstable. Are they starving or clogged?

[kindred carbon]

Wouldn’t it have been easier to just change the MJ value of the rods?

[unique cypress]

(with fertile 2090 gives more convenient numbers than 2100)

[unique cypress]

I did. By 2x. With another mod

[elfin rock]

clogged

[vapid gorge]

where are the items going to? is the storage full?

[elfin rock]

7 assemblers

[vapid gorge]

ok are those assemblers full of that item? or starving?

[elfin rock]

steeled frames, it only goes steel pipe and reinforced iron plates

[elfin rock]

they are full of pipes and plates

[vapid gorge]

so it sounds like you're making more pipes and plates than are being used right?

[elfin rock]

yea

[vapid gorge]

theres your problem

look at what the problem is, follow it forward or backward as needed

[elfin rock]

oh dam

[kindred carbon]

I hope you added a nuclear reactor mk2 as well lol

[elfin rock]

I need 13.3 plates/min im producing 15/min

[kindred carbon]

That’s 120 more reactors I think

[unique cypress]

Nope. It's 1026 reactors @100%