math-and-meta

[viral sparrow]

might help before i spend a while doing this

[unique cypress]

it would be better with the name

not everyone knows the alts by heart

[wind spade]

you're using bolted frame

the suggested option was steeled frame

[old hearth]

1

the name is needed

[unique cypress]

???

[viral sparrow]

aight

[wind spade]

uhh, I swear I've looked at a message that said steeled 🤔

[thorn bane]

steeled frame + bolted plate does seem good though

[unique cypress]

I said steeled

[wind spade]

yeah, but that I used for one tab

but then I looked at some oreo's message to list the recipes for the other tab and I swear I even double checked it to say steeled 🤔

mb then

[viral sparrow]

heres how they look in tiermaker, they seem kinda small

gonna be incredibly hard to see them when theyre all on there

[unique cypress]

names only then?

[viral sparrow]

maybe but like said previously not everybody knows every alt recipe by heart (myself included)

[unborn dome]

Has anyone else seen the bug where the power graph on a pole or whatever can't be moused-over in the right-most quarter of it anymore?

[unique cypress]

at least the names can be looked up. a recipe without the name - not as easily

[viral sparrow]

i suppose so

let me test it first

i think just name is the way to go for sure

@old hearth thoughts?

[old hearth]

either a or d

[viral sparrow]

i think ill do d for readability

[old hearth]

damn, bro thinks acu;'s are d tier

[old hearth]

i would ignor the packager recipes as they are mostly redundant

[viral sparrow]

ill ignore ficsmas stuff as well of course

and like alien dna stuff

[unique cypress]

and unpackaging recipes prolly

[viral sparrow]

not sure if i should ignore required recipes (e.g ballistic warp drive)

[unique cypress]

not sure about packaging tho

[thorn bane]

i wouldnt include default recipes

[viral sparrow]

ill include default recipes for items with multiple recipes but thats it

[old hearth]

Why not

[thorn bane]

how would you rate them
idk i dont see iron rods and think "thats d tier"

[old hearth]

I do

You treat them as if they are alts

Just for the sake of completeness

[viral sparrow]

i dont think ill include any recipes like adaptive control units or any other where theres only one way of making it

i dont see a point

[old hearth]

Yeah fair

[old hearth]

Maybe include the packaged fuels to compare them in jetpacks but ehh

[cerulean stratus]

Thoughts on rubber concrete?

And adhered plates

[unique cypress]

imo not the best, but def good

if you're using oil in the factory anyway, why not?

[thorn bane]

surprisingly good

[thorn bane]

i love adhered but it does use quite some buildings compared to bolted+steel screw

[thorn trail]

i don't feel like wasting a less common resource ( oil ) to multiply a more common resource ( limestone/iron ), especially when wet concrete exists.

[old hearth]

yeah but rubber and plastic are very abundant if you do it right

[thorn bane]

it uses very little oil though and saves a lot on limestone/iron

[old hearth]

all the oil recipes dont use too much oil

[viral sparrow]

alright i believe thats every recipe done

[thorn bane]

but its mostly that it means you need less iron smelters/plate assemblers

[thorn trail]

oil is used for diamonds and power as well as plastic/rubber

[viral sparrow]

now i just gotta make the tierlist

[old hearth]

nuclear for larde power, and then you still have plenty for both

yk, cause you have tripple the plastic and rubber as oil

[thorn trail]

nuclear doesn't use oil at all? last I checked it had oil products involved. Plus I need a LOT of diamonds for my BWD push

[cerulean stratus]

But the oil you use for diamonds or power most of the time isn't the one you use for plastic

[old hearth]

thats my point, you dont need it for power other than mid game

[cerulean stratus]

Where would you put iron and copper alloy?

[old hearth]

s or a tier

[old hearth]

is it on tiermaker

[thorn bane]

im still mad that they nerfed copper alloy

[cerulean stratus]

You're smart.

[unique cypress]

make sure you put all tiers from S to F

don't skip E

[old hearth]

ff tier for nuclear pasta

actually noi hate leached copper enought to put it to b tier in that case

[cerulean stratus]

What about the pure recipes?

[old hearth]

s tier for nuclear pasta

[thorn bane]

wat

[old hearth]

otherwise they are kinda tied

[thorn bane]

alloy all the way

[old hearth]

not for pasta

[thorn bane]

yes for pasta?

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah alloy all the way.
Makes so much copper ingots so quickly

[viral sparrow]

uploading it now

[old hearth]

no cause i want more in a smaller space

[viral sparrow]

if you want to change the tiers thats up to you im not messing with them

[unique cypress]

oh is that how tiermaker works. alright

[cerulean stratus]

What about being on a call as we debate this?

[old hearth]

wait actuually a fire idea

[viral sparrow]

sir i am making a tierlist

[unique cypress]

make your own lol

[old hearth]

mmay be after they is done

[viral sparrow]

sigh i forgot to change the crop

[old hearth]

do u have the link to it

[viral sparrow]

give me a minute

i made a small mistake

[old hearth]

oh no

[viral sparrow]

(it made literally everything unreadable)

[old hearth]

tragic

[unique cypress]

"small"

[thorn bane]

12000/min copper ingots without any water ♥️

[old hearth]

i see you made urs in the dessert

imade mine in the green hillsin your case alloy is much better

[thorn bane]

well i chose the recipe first then the spot

[old hearth]

i did the opposite

[viral sparrow]

come on tiermaker please work

[old hearth]

well both

desert was my general productions factory

[viral sparrow]

there we go

right

[thorn bane]

xd

[fierce prawn]

lol

[old hearth]

link( im very excite)

[unique cypress]

just put a space in the link so it doesn't get parsed as a link

[viral sparrow]

https: //tiermaker.com/create/satisfactory-recipes-17195695

i hope it works correctly

i cant wait for arguments to be caused by this

[thorn bane]

bro how the fuck do you rank default recipes

[unique cypress]

you can just leave them unranked 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

why wouldn't it be possible to rank default recipes?

it's an option like any other

[thorn bane]

how do you rank ai limiters from D-S

idk i compare alts relatively so its weird to choose an absolute point

[wind spade]

well obviously you rank it based on how likely it is for you to use given recipe for production of [whatever product that recipe makes]

[unique cypress]

if I did that, the middle tiers would be basically empty XD

[wind spade]

which is completely fair point of view 🤷

(and as with all analysis/rankings, would be completely subjective)

[old hearth]

I am learning i hate every recipe with a 3-1 ratio

aka caterium ingot and concrete

[wind spade]

here you go, my ranking 🙂

[old hearth]

bro hates cast screw

[wind spade]

it's not that I hate them, it's just that I think they are overrated

[old hearth]

i thought it was a mistake that slipped trhough

[wind spade]

no that was very much intentional

[old hearth]

i just got to screws i have the same rating as cast screws as you lmao

[cerulean stratus]

Waiting for someone to find a use for aluminum beam lmao

[opal bolt]

You don't need cast screws when you eliminate screws altogether.

[old hearth]

i will, ( im doing a second playthrough where i use all alts)

[thorn bane]

also should i be worried that i know 99% of the recipes just by name?

[viral sparrow]

i agree with the bottom tier

[unique cypress]

should I order them within a tier too?

[thorn bane]

nah

[old hearth]

fair

[old hearth]

do you want to waste 2 hours

[viral sparrow]

im ordering them kinda

[old hearth]

how did you guys get the best screenshot

[viral sparrow]

go to botto mwhere it says save or download and download it

[unique cypress]

use the download image feature

[old hearth]

where does it save to

[unique cypress]

downloads?

[old hearth]

no

[viral sparrow]

it should

[old hearth]

im sad

[thorn bane]

it did for me

[jovial jacinth]

a site that won't let me use it w/o disabling my ad blocker? no thanks

[unique cypress]

I have mine on and it wasn't yelling at me

[viral sparrow]

electrode circuit board so low hurts me

[old hearth]

option 2

[jovial jacinth]

must be a different type or something

o, interesting, I reloaded it and it worked fine

[old hearth]

where did you put my baby quartz purification

[unique cypress]

somewhere in the middle

[old hearth]

rank my god tier and burn in hell tiers

[old hearth]

PAIN

[thorn bane]

wait nitro rocket fuel? i would have taken you for an def. RF enjoyer
caterium circuit board over silicon? (also by 2 tiers???) i feel like they are more equal and i prefer silicon (slightly)

[thorn bane]

it should be a bit better on quartz efficiency imo
its not really better than cheap silica + pure quartz

although i LOVE everything else about it

[old hearth]

it is so long as you have a 9 silica- 5 crystals ratio

then when you exceed that ratio just use the other one you need

most effiecient process

more effiecient than cheap silica + pure quartz

( i stan this recipe)

[thorn bane]

oh ye that was including the nitrogen with wr nvm
i still feel like it should be better

[old hearth]

yeah it uses too much nitro

[thorn bane]

the fact that tools only uses it because it uses less limestone is crazy

[unique cypress]

nitro rocket is so much easier. I built each one once, and despite the lower efficiency, nitro is the one I'll probably use from now on. Unless the amount I want to make can be made with default but not nitro in the location I chose

as for CBs, I don't like using quartz for them. HSCs use caterium regardless, so I go all in for caterium for all electronics

[old hearth]

I rank all cha about equal

Cb*

[wind spade]

screw production

[thorn bane]

fair i just love quartz purification so i have lots of silica xD
for nitro really?? doesnt it actually limit you a lot in blue crater? all the sulfur etc. idk
i havent tried it but the resources usages seemed insane

[old hearth]

I'm going to be a goober and use it in reg plutonium rods recipe

[cerulean stratus]

there's a space in the link

[old hearth]

That's so it bypassed link blonks

[thorn bane]

they are suprisingly equal (except electrode fuck electrode)
even default is good with recycled plubber and steamed sheets

[viral sparrow]

thank you

[old hearth]

I love electrode

[cerulean stratus]

honestly I haven't thought of that, but what would want screws with aluminum?

[old hearth]

Hear me out

Pure aluminum rotors

[viral sparrow]

quartz purification is the only one i dont really agree with in god tier

[wind spade]

practically anything late-tier?

[viral sparrow]

solid steel is one i can see why its there but its not for me personally

[old hearth]

(I know it's actually s tier but it's my favorite)

[viral sparrow]

polymer resin can see uses so i wouldnt say burn in hell

[cerulean stratus]

fuck I don't remember what all the recipes are

[old hearth]

What abt burn in hell tuer

[viral sparrow]

default rotor really is not that bad

[wind spade]

yeah "better" than steel rotor

[viral sparrow]

same with default rod

[cerulean stratus]

steel rotor is good for motors

[viral sparrow]

other than that i would agree

[old hearth]

I know it's better but I care more about logistics for motors

[wind spade]

imo it's worst from the three rotor recipes

[thorn bane]

YOU RANKED OC SUPERCOMPUTER OVER DEFAULT?
man people need to stop using stupid oc supercomputers

[viral sparrow]

steel rotor is nice because it works well logistically with making stators but its the most "expensive" one

[cerulean stratus]

steel rotor and stators use the same ingredients so your logistics are simplified

[unique cypress]

it's like in all aspects worse than super state.
a joke really

[old hearth]

I don't know I only ever use super state so I kinda just put it somewhere

[thorn bane]

i see
i hate oc supercomputers with a passion
its like THE "its easy" recipe that turns out to be super inefficient

[old hearth]

It is. Super state is the best, imo

[viral sparrow]

ok

[wind spade]

as is normal with all "easy" recipes

[thorn bane]

ye but default is suprisingly decent

[old hearth]

hey, steel cast plate isnt fff tier

[thorn bane]

wait s tier iron alloy?
EXPLAIN YOURSELF

[old hearth]

its funny

[viral sparrow]

what do you mean

iron + copper = more copper or more iron

[wind spade]

explanation: subjective opinions 😛

[old hearth]

iron alloy + copper alloy = very fun

[viral sparrow]

its so good for phase 2 factories

they go hand in hand

[thorn bane]

its ok but S tier?

[viral sparrow]

yes it is it is stupid and i always ignore it when i see it

[viral sparrow]

yes lol

[old hearth]

its very silly, and that gets it abonus point

[viral sparrow]

i dont wanna hear it from someone saying default rocket fuel is s tier

[thorn bane]

hahahaha

[old hearth]

i stg i put it with nitro rocket fuel

[unique cypress]

the difference in resources is not that huge. but the difference in machines is. but like I said before, it depends on the location. if I can afford nitro, I will use it. if I can't, I will use default without any complaining (except it being too good compared to nuclear lol). I did still put it in A, after all

[old hearth]

I literally put it in b tier with nitro rocket fuel

[unique cypress]

why isn't default HMF in the bottom tier lol

[old hearth]

is u blind or are you forgeting who i am

[thorn bane]

800 sulfur 600 nitrogen vs 285 sulfur 480 nitrogen is kinda insane imo
also i feel like most of the time im capped by sulfur

[old hearth]

isnt sulfur only for power and weapons

[thorn bane]

but ye i guess i also build big so i actually reach that limit

[old hearth]

fair

[viral sparrow]

its not as bad as flexible ig

[old hearth]

i am aflexible stan( not realy heavy encased is better)

[thorn bane]

screws though

[viral sparrow]

screws are not the devil

[wind spade]

screws are fine ffs

[unique cypress]

ye, but it requires mixing 2 different TF recipes. even more complexity. the 3rd one is only with def turbo

[thorn bane]

it is pretty complex yes
especially with the TF recycling

[unique cypress]

screws themselves are fine. the recipes that use them are not

[wind spade]

screw recipes are fine

[viral sparrow]

thanks google

[old hearth]

this is the ps4's fault

[wind spade]

consoles should be abolished

[old hearth]

just the ps4

[wind spade]

all

[thorn bane]

wait classic battery E? its my favorite battery recipe, its so much cheaper

[viral sparrow]

i hate console exclusives with a burning passion

[old hearth]

actually is it even on ps4 or just ps5

[unique cypress]

why ps4 specifically?

[viral sparrow]

i dont use batteries at all ever

[unique cypress]

super state comp

[viral sparrow]

(cough cough nintendo cough)

[thorn bane]

fair

[viral sparrow]

you make a compelling argument, however i dont use that recipe either

[old hearth]

im an xbox guy in the console war and ps4 is really bad for any online game

[old hearth]

what recipe then

[wind spade]

I mean that shouldn't be a factor in ranking a recipe lower 🤔

[viral sparrow]

either oc or default

oc is nice because of really cheap slooping

doesnt burn my power grid to the ground and requires less sloops overall too

[old hearth]

i use batteries only for supercomputers

[unique cypress]

the only reason to use OC. like literally

[wind spade]

since ranking recipes in this fashion should be "chance of me using [recipe] for [recipe output]"
it doesn't matter that you normally wouldn't use the [recipe output] imo

[cerulean stratus]

well this is kinda sad

[thorn bane]

i recently noticed that i dont actually use iron rods anymore but i still think steel rods is really good xD

[old hearth]

sloppy alumina

[cerulean stratus]

basically, you make less aluminum by using normal than using sloppy

[viral sparrow]

steel rods are amazing

[old hearth]

yes

[thorn bane]

ye its actually just worse

[old hearth]

regardless of recipe

[cerulean stratus]

so you don't get much out of byproducts, except saving on bringing in quartz that you might need for circuit boards i guess

[old hearth]

i actually did use that production chain except i used the silica to make cb's for the caterium factory that was supplying coke

very goofy chain, very fun

[thorn bane]

you can do default solution and pure ingots
i did that and used the silica for circuit boards its quite good

[unique cypress]

if you want max alu, you always use sloppy + electrode and either use pure or default ingot. anything else makes less and is not worth the effort
default ingot just gives you more alu at the cost of a ton of quartz

[viral sparrow]

ive done something like this before yeah

[old hearth]

(minus the part this was a year ago and i didnt know about vip junctions or wet concrete sinking and has misery)

[thorn bane]

ye mine was also before quartz purification which makes silica way easier xD

[old hearth]

not actually a year

mine was in 1.0

[unique cypress]

you have to use the crystals for purification to make any sense to use

[old hearth]

i didnt play from update 3 to 1.00

[cerulean stratus]

I guess circuit boards and aluminum can be used for radio control units, but that one also wants quartz, so it's a bit ???

[thorn bane]

i use a lot of crystal oscillators so thats fine

[old hearth]

you always will need more quartsz unless you build the math around the silica

[viral sparrow]

ah yes i forgot to mention that the reason both oscillator recipes are so low is because i have a vendetta against oscillators

[old hearth]

fair

which do u prefer

[unique cypress]

i'm just saying. for either item, purification is worse than pure crystal or cheap silica. it's only good if you use all of its output

[viral sparrow]

default

[old hearth]

wwthis is the powerr of it

[cerulean stratus]

you can do some ingots pure others not

[old hearth]

i mean unless you use it in that way

i mean if u use silica for cbs

[cerulean stratus]

if you're doing rcu, then it is recommended

[thorn bane]

i like them
i mainly dont like how fiddely the belts can get with caterium computers where you need multiple belts
spamming (auto-connecting) manufacturer blueprints for oscillators is really nice

[old hearth]

which radio control unit do yall like the most( i like them all equally)

[viral sparrow]

see theres my problem with them, they require so many god damn manufacturers

[cerulean stratus]

but it's just not a good idea to turn bauxite into silica

[viral sparrow]

basic

[unique cypress]

default

[cerulean stratus]

I hate them all equally

[thorn bane]

that is very true
but you kinda save some since the computers are in an assembler

[old hearth]

real

which one is best reasource wise, i never took the time to figure out

[thorn bane]

i prefer system but its not by much

[viral sparrow]

i also like connection recipe too

[unique cypress]

one of the RCU recipes was terrible iirc?

[old hearth]

the one with rubber?

[thorn bane]

seems to be default

[viral sparrow]

i dont like system

[unique cypress]

yeah, I think so

[thorn bane]

i dont remember why i chose system xD

[old hearth]

aare we on gang heat fused frame or normal frame

[viral sparrow]

normal

[thorn bane]

heat fused 100%

its sooo good

[unique cypress]

heat fused uses less alu so that

[cerulean stratus]

What about auto wiring

[old hearth]

both( normal is better in terms of nitro but heat fused is cooler)

[viral sparrow]

i fucking hate automated wiring becuase it uses so much cable or wire

[thorn bane]

alt to save on wire

[unique cypress]

speed

but not when I'm automating it

then default

[old hearth]

ok final one, whatturbo motor alt

[cerulean stratus]

oil cable is so fun

[unique cypress]

electric 100%

[thorn bane]

turbo pressure

[viral sparrow]

HUH

[thorn bane]

really?

[cerulean stratus]

oil cable makes so much cable

[viral sparrow]

THERES REAL PEOPLE THAT USE ELECTRIC?

[old hearth]

it has good ratios

[unique cypress]

so easy.

[old hearth]

i dont remember where though

[thorn bane]

its decent but turbo pressure is so good
and what else are you gonna use nitrogen on

[unique cypress]

it's iron, ai limiters, and rcus

[old hearth]

i like pressure, however i hate stators

electric is simpler numbers wise

[thorn bane]

i dont really care about numbers

[old hearth]

i think reg is the worst but i never did the math on it

[cerulean stratus]

here's the math on coated cables

[unique cypress]

turbo electric is motors, which are rotors and ECRs (electric alt), ECRs, and rotors again, and RCUs. a bit expensive on the RCUs, but the rest is piss easy

[thorn bane]

i still have ptsd from making 300/min automated wiring in U8

[old hearth]

r u including the recycled rubber loop

[cerulean stratus]

damn, I tried to do 150 per min and it was tough

[old hearth]

I hate stators so i hate emcs

[cerulean stratus]

no, you do it and then show me, I don't like doing the recycled loop

[old hearth]

bro its easy

look up a blueprint for it

[unique cypress]

same ingredients as steel rotor. another reason why it's easy

[thorn bane]

pretty sure that makes it better than coated

[old hearth]

( i know)

[old hearth]

and in a blueprint mk3 you can fit all the machines

[thorn bane]

wait does electric or pressure use more stators?

[old hearth]

pressure i think

[cerulean stratus]

ok, I guess you win

[unique cypress]

yep

[cerulean stratus]

and I didn't even use the residual

[old hearth]

pressure by 5/6's of a stator per turbo motor

even more if u yuse emc alt

[old hearth]

i have a blueprint that has all the machines, its super easy

[cerulean stratus]

I still think it's overcomplicated and I don't like to deal with this

[unique cypress]

it's very easy

[thorn bane]

i love it because its complicated
loops

[old hearth]

it 4.5x's your production

[thorn bane]

honestly i wish we had more loops in the game

[cerulean stratus]

well, it's loops with belts so you can always sink excess

[old hearth]

and if you use a blueprint its literally just pipe in water and crude outl, get out rubber or plastic

[old hearth]

you wont have excess

even if you do its a self contained system

[unique cypress]

you don't need to sink anything in the recycling loop

[cerulean stratus]

I need to build my factory around it

[old hearth]

i mean after the loop

[cerulean stratus]

normally it becomes an unorganized mess

you need to go residual on the polymer, and then do the recycled loop, and mine always ends up as a mess

ok guys

tempered vs pure

[old hearth]

for?

[unique cypress]

doesn't matter. always pure

[thorn bane]

i dont like the tempered recipes

[wind spade]

alwyas choose what you want based on your own preferences

[old hearth]

tbf caterium tempered is the same raio as pure and doesnt use too much petroleum

heres a hard one, tmepered or leached

[crimson moat]

The priority merger w/ packaged water basically solves every potential issue with aluminum (other than complexity since it takes more machines - but it's a complexity that we can fully understand and explain)

• zero latency ramping (instantly at 100% production)

• arbitrary waste to fresh ratios (if waste water isn't present, fresh will take its place in the correct quantity)

• can gracefully handle resource starvation (production reduced only as much as resources reduced by, for as long as they're reduced)

• uncloggable

• 100% recycled cannisters, not continual input, so the only extra ongoing cost is a bit of power

[cerulean stratus]

I'll be honest, 40 refineries is miserable

[old hearth]

any of them but tempered copper

[thorn bane]

and big af
mk2 packager when

[thorn bane]

i used default since i didnt use much caterium (<1200) 🙃

[old hearth]

ouch, my soul

[cerulean stratus]

speaking of copper

[thorn bane]

smallest number, best number

[crimson moat]

think i use about 20x9 foundations for 600 baux, but that's all underclocked

[old hearth]

normal when small amounts of copper, tempered when excess hor, pure for max effieiency, alloy for best balance, leached never

[cerulean stratus]

smallest number of... foundries? used copper?

[thorn bane]

machines

[cerulean stratus]

bros, do you want to be on a call for this?

[old hearth]

mayhaps

[cerulean stratus]

ok so who wants to be in a call, I'll dm you and we'll make a group

[cerulean stratus]

You ok with it then?

[old hearth]

sure

[gloomy shoal]

Noted earlier discussion of nuclear vs rocket fuel, and figured I'd ask about the degree of magnitude that rocket fuel would be cheaper than nuclear

I still think fuel & fuel gens are bullshit and that nuclear is actually a fun maths and logistic challenge but ig I'll hear more opinions first

[vapid gorge]

How so? Uranium is basically free materials. And the base recipes cost very little

[north sand]

but theres so much oil

[gloomy shoal]

I'm mostly going off what I was seeing in the discussion a few hours ago
My understanding is that (high-scale) nuclear uses a lot of a variety of materials, while rocket fuel mostly just uses oil, sulphur, coal?

[unique cypress]

150 GW uranium vs rf

[vapid gorge]

oil is extremely valuable. I'ts used it lots of alt recipes as a padding resource. So it can effectively be 'converted' to other resources you need that way

[unique cypress]

plus nitro rocket for comparison

[unique cypress]

fixed uranium

but you have to store 600 waste/min

[viral sparrow]

why not infused uranium cells?

[unique cypress]

if you don't care about uranium, it's actually cheaper

[gloomy shoal]

Mmm
I will say that I'm not willing to have nuclear waste storage bins, so I would at minimum be processing it up to plutonium rods
Then I would use those as a fuel source for trucks and drones, if I had literally any intention of using trucks and drones

[unique cypress]

here's with all recipes enabled

[unique cypress]

that's 1 ISC every 40 minutes

which isn't really sustainable I don't think

[viral sparrow]

i would agree with that

[crimson moat]

uranium makes 15x more waste than plutonium

uranium waste storage is kind of a joke, not worth

[viral sparrow]

plutonium waste storage is incredibly manageable

[unique cypress]

which is why I don't agree with the argument that base uranium is competitive with rocket fuel.

base uranium is sustainable if you're making like 20 GW maybe. but at that point just do regular fuel from 600 oil

[vapid gorge]

fill up trains with waste and launch them into the void rollercoaster style ? 😛

[gloomy shoal]

Maybe just me but I feel like comparing "Nuclear but you store a fucklot of waste in a box somewhere" to wasteless storage is exceedingly disingenuous as a comparison, it should be wasteless to wasteless imo

[gloomy shoal]

See I would because it's funny, but that introduces the "Infinite trains approach the rounding limit and never despawn" problem

[viral sparrow]

nuclear storing uranium waste is stupid, storing plut waste is fine though

[unique cypress]

this is the same thing wasteless

literally double the machines

[viral sparrow]

nuclear is also interesting because all of the recipes to make plut fuel rods are viable in one way or another imo

[unique cypress]

plus look at this mess

[viral sparrow]

if you want max power then you can go fertile + instant cells (i think?) + fuel unit

[crimson moat]

fertile uranium is a bit meh if you want to use all the uranium (i think it saves sulfur and nitrogen, which are both available in enough quantity)

but if you aren't using all uranium, it's less bad

[unique cypress]

vs

...

[crimson moat]

that's less power than non fissile uranium + plut unit IIRC

[unique cypress]

fertile is less power. even if you go all the way to uranium

but the other 2 alts do add power (if burning plut ofc)

[viral sparrow]

i guess it makes sense why

[unique cypress]

or rather, I should say per uranium ore

[crimson moat]

fertile is the spend less nitrogen/sulfur for less power option

but it also spends more uranium

if you don't need that extra uranium that is spent, then that's technically free. If you're going to 2100/2100 uranium then it's a big negative

[viral sparrow]

i liked using it for my 250 uranium power plant though, used the two uranium nodes at the top of the map

250 for the fuel rods, 50 for nobelisks and 300 for fertile uranium

[gloomy shoal]

I will say my current save, I'm planning around using all four nodes of uranium for power since I'm doing nothing else with it (nukes just seem unnecessary to me, enough normal bombs will do the job just as well)

[viral sparrow]

i liked using it too for the water byproduct

[unique cypress]

well, you won't be taking all of it all the way to ficsonium that's for sure

[gloomy shoal]

It would be really funny but yeah no, best I'm aware that would result in running out of shit on the map I think

Plus I kinda would rather set it up that burning plutonium and ficsonium only ever happens if I need the power boost (which shouldn't happen)

[viral sparrow]

ficsonium is net power loss no?

just used for full wasteless

[unique cypress]

because that's how much it costs to get rid of the waste from one Plutonium rod

^
5 fics - 12500 MW when burned - 9 GW to make - technically net positive, if barely

but 8% of SAM for one Plut Rod/min is insane

[gloomy shoal]

The point of the ficsonium is more that you can burn the plutonium without having to deal with waste, so I feel like it might be a better metric to say that the ficsonium chain is both the ficsonium rod itself and the plutonium's power

Also yeah, SAM is definitely something I feel like I'm gonna need to stock up on sloops for

[unique cypress]

you can bring it down to 5%, but then you have to make extra superposition oscillators/power shards

and then it's no longer net power positive

[gloomy shoal]

Really, for how much SAM it sounds like the endgame uses, you'd think there would be a lot more of it to actually work with

[unique cypress]

Other than Ficsonium and Matrices, everything else uses what I'd call "normal" amounts of SAM

But putting Matrices in all 10 Augmenters for a 4x boost cost 6k SAM 😆

On the night 1.0 released, I actually planned my endgame power plant. But then I saw this:

Shit's straight up not possible without cheating/modding

[gloomy shoal]

Oh right, I suppose the power augmenter does have that slot in it
I should probably decide if I want to use power augmenters at all (Iirc isn't there only 50-odd sloops on the map?)

[unique cypress]

There's 106

Up to 10 Augmenters

Hence 50 matrices in my plan

[gloomy shoal]

10 augmenters
That sounds like it'd be excessive, up until the part where you remember how not-strong those are (at least without the power matrices, I haven't progressed enough to know what those do and intend to stay blind-ish)

[unique cypress]

This would've been 5.7 TW. Which is not even a third of a max power setup, even though this is impossible

[unique cypress]

10 Augmenters without matrices is double the power
And an FYI about matrices. They're net power negative until you have at least 200 GW of raw, unaugmented power

So, uhh, do not make them if you have less than 150~200, because you might just start getting blackouts

Unless you do something to make them consume less power

[old hearth]

i found the funniest production chain

and its actually not horrible

[cerulean stratus]

the current tier list

[unique cypress]

Idk, using 120 bauxite on something that normally costs 610 iron sounds like the definition of horrible to me

[old hearth]

but its so silly

[unique cypress]

It is

[gloomy shoal]

Isn't bauxite pretty exclusively used for aluminium?
While maybe not my first choice for making rotors, if you've got that much aluminium knocking around I don't suppose it's awful

Not that I can come up with a good reason why you'd need that many rotors though

[old hearth]

You wouldn't but it's so silly

[gloomy shoal]

Well, thinking about it
That is actually a decent number for smart plating, since the RIPs make nice 10s with an actually-normal amount of iron

[viral sparrow]

i dont trust you

[cerulean stratus]

It's incomplete, but it's what I have for now

[viral sparrow]

default alu ingot in top tier is just not it

[vapid gorge]

yeah you can completely cut out steel/coal with those bauxite recipes. It's very odd

[gloomy shoal]

Big mad that the icons aren't the same size (For expected reasons ig, but)
I will grab a link though for the recipes I do know of so far

[viral sparrow]

my bad

it wouldve took so much work to get them all the same size and im not willing to redo it

[viral sparrow]

cast screw above screw..

[gloomy shoal]

I mean. fair
I probably would've used the satisfactory wiki listing so it shows what items go into them

[viral sparrow]

it wouldve been way too small otherwise

[gloomy shoal]

Ctrl +

[viral sparrow]

cooling device below system.......

[viral sparrow]

still way too small / looks like shit

[cerulean stratus]

Oh I missed I did that, you're right it doesn't belong there

[viral sparrow]

this is one of those similar to encased frame where its just way better than the default imo

[cerulean stratus]

As for cooling system. One of them requires rubber and water, the other one requires motors and less nitrogen

[viral sparrow]

motors are so scary

[gloomy shoal]

Motors are intimidating but not that bad in practice
Mostly they're just annoying cause you end up with a belt of like 20 wire and some loose pipes

Sigh
Let me fire up the game to get the actual numbers on my blueprint

[cerulean stratus]

It's not an easy comparison

[vapid gorge]

I don't think the numbers are the issue xD

are you sushi belting?

[gloomy shoal]

I mean, for a blueprint that should only ever be getting exact input? Yeah it doesn't matter that much

[vapid gorge]

oh sushi belting is great, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure why that's intimidating or annoying?

it would be like any other part that requires 2 items to make right?

[gloomy shoal]

I'm saying that the fear of motors is overblown, not that I find them hard

[cerulean stratus]

It's kind of a long chain.
And it can be done multiple ways

Do you go steel? Copper rotors? Rigor motor?

[vapid gorge]

I've never heard of the fear of motors xD So maybe not over blown. Not even blown?
can you be under blown?

[gloomy shoal]

I mean I guess it depends on what recipes you decide to go with yeah
Hard to go wrong with steel rotors though

[cerulean stratus]

But the coolest thing I found here is that you can replace almost all of oil with quartz

[vapid gorge]

if that's not a word, it is now

[viral sparrow]

my previous message was sarcasm. motors are not scary at all

[vapid gorge]

yeah just super convenient to have them made from the same things

[gloomy shoal]

Made of the same things, but also from (basically) first-level parts

[vapid gorge]

sushi belt the same 2 items to 2 different assembers making 2 parts then squish those together

though I do like teh crystal motor recipe

[cerulean stratus]

Meanwhile the normal recipe

• rubber

[gloomy shoal]

Probably my second-favourite blueprint to work with this save

[hearty jackal]

I'm sorry I just jumped on here. I'm new to the game and am actually at the point where I am setting up a factory to make motors what is sushi belting?

[vapid gorge]

ah so sushi belts are a mixed item belts

so in this example putting wire and steel pipes on a belt to make both Steel Rotors and Stators

you need smart splitters for it, and at the start, a sink

Well you'd need a sink at some point becaues you can't pause sushi belts

[hearty jackal]

Oh ok I always try to keep components separated and only combine the parts in the assembler

I don't have smart splitters yet

[vapid gorge]

you can unlock ss in the MAM very eary. But yeah most people do 1 belt 1 item, it really requires no thought. But wit ha bit of work yo ucan really save on logistics like this

or this

[hearty jackal]

What tree in the MAM are they in?

[vapid gorge]

I want to say caterium?

!wikisearch smart_splitter

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=smart_splitter

[vapid gorge]

Manufacturers have a lots of sushi options too . A lot of their recipes have very low total throughput needs so you can put all 4 items on 1 belt

[jovial jacinth]

This is usually how I lay mine out

[hearty jackal]

Ok thanks. I have not explored a whole lot yet and have not went too far into alot of the MAM trees

[vapid gorge]

I like this 😄

[vapid gorge]

oh the MAM is basically the most important building in the game. Research stuff in it asap

[jovial jacinth]

Is there an advantage to that layout?

[vapid gorge]

fewer splitters? looks cool?

I did a version where the belt was going above the assember with a diamond splitter dropping down

[hearty jackal]

In this diagram is the sink where you send excess for coupon points or just where everything regroup and recycles through the system?

[jovial jacinth]

coupons or just to preven backups

[hearty jackal]

Will do. Thanks for the information.

[vapid gorge]

with sushi belts, at the very start, you'll need to sink overflow until it balances out.

after that all you need to do is make sure somewhere along the line the final outputs are sunk otherwise back ups will occur

it's not a huge problem or issue though, just something to keep in mind

[gloomy shoal]

Points at self
Load-balanced sushi, kept at exact rates

[hearty jackal]

Yeah right now I have enough resources for what I make so I let the machines back up on dedicated lines. Not efferent I know. I don't know what parts I'm gonna need down the line so I store a bunch and don't sink as much as I should be.

[vapid gorge]

oh man, while I go up the tiers? I do that all the time

everything is backed up and fills containers. When I need a new item? I just hook up the containers

efficiency can suck a big one during the tiers

[gloomy shoal]

Yeah, storing up lots of parts isn't a bad idea
Particularly concrete, go through soooo much of that

[wooden jasper]

never sink, always swim (in thousands of resources)

[vapid gorge]

I just store up everything. Helps make the new parts when unlocking tiers really fast 🙂

[wooden jasper]

I made 20,000 modular frames + 5000 backup stored in machine outputs just because

[hearty jackal]

Ah ok that's good to know. I have about 20 of the double storage containers of concrete stored cause I know it's used alot in buildings.

[wooden jasper]

I usually put a set amount of storages if there's a factory with surplus, and then a smart splitter set up for overflow if the belts back up behind the containment point

[gloomy shoal]

Normal amounts of cement

[wooden jasper]

never sink concrete though

it's not even worth the points

[gloomy shoal]

Yeah
Basically just sink cement to destroy it

[hearty jackal]

I appreciate the tips. I need to jet cause I need to be up at 4 for work tomorrow. Have a great night everyone.

[wooden jasper]

did I go overboard by making 150 mod frames/min and using only 80 of them to make HMF 😕

[gloomy shoal]

...What else would you even use that many frames for?

[wooden jasper]

idk building or something

this is what the wall of 50 assemblers looks like

the factory to the left of it is half (yes, half) of a 2,400 RIP/min production

and I don't even have phase 4 yet...

14 mins away from suffering for bauxite

well not really

I'm close to the pure node by the west coast mountain area

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=vZqrZHwt4DzZwjbhxJM3

except you sloop all the biomass and bio coal to make it much less pm

[old hearth]

?

[vapid gorge]

make nuclear rods from pig carcases

[old hearth]

oh

[vapid gorge]

you can do a lot less biomass pm if you sloop it

christmas in july

duh

[old hearth]

im noit making that or are you saying you are

[vapid gorge]

just a crazy chain xD I kinda plan on doing it at some point. You can end up only needing to kill like 1 pig every few minutes

less if you kill the big ones

[old hearth]

why

[vapid gorge]

shits and giggles?

turn nuclear hogs into nuclear rods

how have you not by now? just never did nuclear?

[old hearth]

I think solid aluminum rotors is more shigly

[vapid gorge]

oh, maybe the base nuclear doesn't need acid,

[fallow siren]

funnily enough its the base one that needs acid while encased cell doesnt

[vapid gorge]

yeah I'm just not a fan of the aluminium taker over of steel recipes xD

[vapid gorge]

orly? I don't know those chains by heart

[old hearth]

the only recipe with acid as a byporoduct

also non fissile uranium and fertile uranium use acids

is this cursed enough

( all in one factory)

[vapid gorge]

huh, I guess more people use the base recipe than I expected. I always figured people with the acid by product were doing the more efficiednt uranium ore chain

[old hearth]

No. In my save im gonna do both( im using all alts )

[vapid gorge]

'don't need to care'?

[old hearth]

Grenny is a strong proprieter of no alts are bad

[vapid gorge]

I mean, it's accurate. Different alts are good in different situations. It's fine if you're not putting yourself in them

[old hearth]

Im doing 200 foundries of campacted steel

to an extent he's not wrong, but some are better than others

[vapid gorge]

there's pros and cons to all of them. And some of them are subjective

[vapid gorge]

only if you define the specific metric

[fallow siren]

yeah, top one is base cell recipe, the bottom one is the encased alt

[old hearth]

420?

or 4 and a bit?

[vapid gorge]

for example steel rotor uses more resources than copper, but I will always do the trade for hte component convenience

and for things like that it's very difficult to rate

[old hearth]

I think the more annoying people are ones that are too deadset on something like ALL SCREW RECIPES ARE BAD

[vapid gorge]

hey, some people have screw PTSD, be kind 🙂

[old hearth]

To that i say

grow up

[vapid gorge]

hey, before yo uget the hang of logistics? screws are a pita

I hated them for a long time xD

[old hearth]

early game yes

[fallow siren]

ive worked with 10k screws before in a production line, doesnt have a problem with it

[old hearth]

oh wait is , your decimal

[vapid gorge]

you might not hate all the belts

Some people get way more out of planning and doing things like that xD I've probably put in almost as much time planning

[fallow siren]

i actually liked screw bcs it forces me to do more planning for the belt, which is kinda fun to do

[old hearth]

chat im going to use catwalks to hide wiring, is that based?

[vapid gorge]

nah, it's skibidy

[old hearth]

...

[vapid gorge]

just trolling you xD

[old hearth]

im trying to fix z fighting

oh my

beams fttw

aluminuminoominumium

chat whos your fave satisfactory youtubers

...

How do you feel about the impending mk6 bbelt crisis

That happens any time he gets to nuclear

at least for the last two seasons

[fallow siren]

best part of his nuclear build is when it doesnt work

[viral sparrow]

this is something i did not need to read, especially not from you of all people

[viral sparrow]

i dont watch satisfactory youtube tbh

[crimson moat]

This is a perfect aluminum setup. 9x26 foundations though without OC or manifolds

but it's 100% reliable, undeadlockable, zero ramp time, recovers gracefully and instantly from anything, can consume arbitrary % waste water (up to and including all) or operate fully via fresh water supply. Etcetc

not reasonably possible before 1.1 (priority merger)

this is why you need blueprint system from other games though. It would take 10x mk.3 blueprinters to fit this in (2 horizontally, 5 vertically) even though you may want to build it 25 times identically.

in factorio you can just copy/paste it

in Satis you have to take half an hour to nudge everything into the right place, x10 for doing it 10 times. Or use an external tool like SCIM which breaks on large saves.

[old hearth]

fair but i dont mind

true

or you are intentionally gunning for it

and skip previous tier factories

[gray flower]

HUH

i can run satisfactory and my world but i only do it for 5min due to heat maxeek

[wind spade]

Factorio scales way more than SF though

[unborn dome]

Asked in the general chat but might've gotten lost - If I want trains of different lengths to stop at one station, could I hypothetically put a second "station" platform mid-way down (in a spot the first train isn't loading/unloading), so a second train could stop there?

[wind spade]

Afaik yes

[fierce prawn]

that’s a really cool idea, I’ll keep that in mind for future alum plants

this is a totally different game though. What factories pre tier 7 or 8 are realistically going to need 1200 item throughput?

the only thing i can think of would be something like a large oil plant’s worth of coke, which for its size would be easily manageable for two or three lower speed belts. there’s just no reason to have mk6 much earlier

[frosty owl]

Mh?
Oh, please, do say more

[frosty owl]

They would be helpful to manage the Protein->Biomass recipe better

[split sierra]

Hell yeah you embraced the priority merger method

[gloomy shoal]

I mean, tbf it's not really large enough (yet) to be especially sophisticated (E.g. getting into the programmable-splitter-to-manage-ratios thing)

Mostly it's just liberal use of convoluted splitter ratios and mixing belts only when they already have exact amounts for the single machine that belt supplies

[split sierra]

I built mine with a 2 part blueprint using auto connect, I have to thrown in the empty canisters to kickstart it but it’s working perfectly

[gloomy shoal]

Downclock the machinery to save all like 2 megawatts

[split sierra]

3 part with the furnace array

300 bauxite in, 120 coke and 75 water

[fierce prawn]

very true 😂

[frosty owl]

Isn't the whole point to encourage thinking in the "how can I break this up into blueprintable blocks?" though?
Like, finding a way to build it quickly by just snapping together a few blueprints (rather than just one blueprint per setup)

[fierce prawn]

👆

[frosty owl]

"Only when they already have the exact amount..."
Well, machines do be one of the most powerful balancing tools we have, don't let anyone tell you otherwise! 😆

[frosty owl]

The power draw must be flat

[gloomy shoal]

Look I would be thrilled to even try doing a "Everything in the factory everywhere runs on a single circuitous belt" setup but I'm really not ready to try dealing with however the hell the programmable splitter trick works for getting good ratios going

And frankly I've given up on "Power draw must be flat" entirely for the fact that my beloved trains will Not Do That^tm

Also like
Particle Accellerators

[fierce prawn]

“power draw must be flat” sir my production looks like an ECG of a man on meth

[crimson moat]

The problem is just that i'd need like 12 blocks to do this, and it's easier to just full manual build than try to make all of them fit just right and add all of the connections between them.

If it was 12x12 it would be different.. but 4, 5, 6 are just tiny for mid to lategame.

[gloomy shoal]

I mean I live in an interesting space where
On one hand, I love doing cool shit with trains and sushi belts
On the other, in all applicable cases I go full send on "It's boring but it fucking works goddamnit"

[fierce prawn]

remember what ADA told you when you unlocked blueprints…

cmon now

[frosty owl]

I might be misunderstanding what you mean, but... programmable splitters can't set throughput. Compared to normal and Smart splitters, they can "just" filter items and split evenly more than one kind of item at a time

[frosty owl]

I use a "good" and "bad" grid, where one has Accelerators, vehicles etc and is fed by geothermal + all old powerplants ^^

[fierce prawn]

I promise you you do not, give it a try!

[crimson moat]

I definitely do 😛

[gloomy shoal]

There's a trick I've seen where with programmable splitters, you can supply an ordered belt (E.g. 3 screws 1 rod in that order perpetually) and it'll properly split the belt, in that order, per cycle)
Iirc it partially involves the output belt being a higher tier than the input belt, for
Normal reasons, I assume

[crimson moat]

here for example, the packagers section at the start alone is going to require 4x mk.3 blueprints and manual connections. There is no way to compress it to fit into less without violating my design goals.

[gloomy shoal]

That was a notable thought I had at one point, and is part of why I run a power tower line alongside my rail lines

Unfortunately, the day I discovered that you can't clock machines to 1/3rd speed without having Jank^tm happen

[fierce prawn]

so then do that?? build it once in the blueprints, and its just a few pipes and belts to connect it all

blueprints are intended to be chained together

build one print for each step

[crimson moat]

Yeah, that's how i end up with 12 blueprints and still having to do manual work to connect them to create a single module, which i have duplicated 25x over. It literally takes less time for me to just manually build than to try to work within the blueprint constraints.

[fierce prawn]

in the long haul it won’t, i guarantee you

you can always chunk up the production line further, and you can always build more compact…

[crimson moat]

Yeah i'm not building vertically for this project

for game performance and asthetic reasons

[fierce prawn]

[crimson moat]

I'm not clipping, either, and i want to be able to see all of the belts and connections from outside.

[fierce prawn]

i’m not clipping either

[frosty owl]

While I do share your disappointment in that regard, I also think you may be overestimating how bad that level of imprecision can be. I ran the math and with 4 decimals for clock you would have machines going on/off every few hours in the worst case scenario (ie: machine making 1200/min but being off by a full 0.0001%, missing one item every few hours iirc). In most scenarios, the throughputs involved can make such errors incredibly hard to detect even when looking for them

[fierce prawn]

the new vertical nudge is verrrry nice

[gloomy shoal]

Also, I genuinely think for a setup like this I'm just not sure the Satisfactory-intended application of blueprints is compatible with your build style in general

My understanding of the blueprinter is that you're """supposed""" to use it to make stepped blocks
E.g. "I need 16 constructors in a bigass cube" or "This is my cement box that turns 120 iron ingots into 10 reinforced plates, and that is my cement box that turns 67.5 iron ingots into 6 rotors, and that is my cement box that exclusively runs the solid steel recipe-"

[frosty owl]

For reference, I enjoy running systems that can ground to a halt if any number doesn't match exactly. I have very high precision requirements and do not take these issues lightly ^^

[gloomy shoal]

Not sure what the hell was happening to me then, but that kind of issue makes me want to evaporate regardless. Jank is not permitted in my factories unless it is tactical jank

[frosty owl]

There's an important detail at play: "I can't compress it without violating my design goals" 😉

[fierce prawn]

yeah they edited that in after the fact, makes sense

ah, design goals

[gloomy shoal]

My problem is I love vertical logistics because I love the moving parts and the visual chaos it brings once the factory is moving
What I love considerably less is "Oh, shit, I need to run like 12 water pipes through this now, where the fuck do I put that"

[fierce prawn]

my beloved and behated

[frosty owl]

I almost never use production blueprints too, but I reckon that I also have a "hard-to-blueprint" kind of style...

[gloomy shoal]

My factories are, at least ideally, entirely assembled by a smattering of step-blueprints that haphazardly chain together in a tangled logistics nightmare

I'm going to point at whatever the fuck Kibitz was doing in the dune desert in Update 8 as my main inspiration for this style of build

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah, there's a full tutorial on it (aptly linked in the wiki page for Programmable Splitter). I was just making sure you weren't confusing that with "ppm-settings" or other features 😅

[frosty owl]

BTW, a "good grid" and "bad grid" example can be seen in the last 2 pictures here~
#screenshots message

[fierce prawn]

i don’t use a ton of specialized factory-in-a-box prints, but I do have prints for basically every mechine to plop down in bulk with all the necessary splitters and such, pre attached. Very handy for when dealing with factories that have hundreds of assemblers lol, saves
me a world of trouble

[gloomy shoal]

I do suppose I could apply good-grid bad-grid in some practical extent
If I'm not super attached to the "good-grid" then it's pretty easy for me to hook the two together and frankly, let the bad grid keep itself afloat on battery power most of the time

[split sierra]

I feel like satisfactory doesn’t have the same blueprint scalability as other factory games because at the end of the day you can still beat the game with an handful of nodes without even moving further than your adjacent starting biome, there’s no permanent spm requirement outside of an arbitrary sink point number I guess

[gloomy shoal]

True
Satisfactory never really has a rate check, so you can absolutely get away with ad-hoc and slapdash

[frosty owl]

Also, can we talk about how the amazing upgrade to the eyedropper (allowing it to copy colors and recipes) saves on tons of blueprinting for individual and personalized things (eg: signs, colored stuff etc)

[fierce prawn]

YESSSS

[gloomy shoal]

True
I'm avoiding signs since I've heard about lag, also maybe lights? Less sure on the latter

It is really good for when I'm doing something I either don't have a quick block for or just, want to do freehand for some reason

[frosty owl]

But the babies and puppies are waiting for you!

[gloomy shoal]

Hm
I don't think I can legally address that sentiment

[fierce prawn]

yeah, more lag, but unless you’re covering every building in them i wouldnt worry

[frosty owl]

I ha e a thing with custom-coloring stuff, so this saves me sooooooooo much work in the customizer!
I had over 90 saved colours to choose from at one point...

[gloomy shoal]

I will say I feel like it's maybe a good decision to have put my main base over that one SAM node in crater lakes, no intensive production happening there so I can play around more with architecture and lighting

[frosty owl]

I have a... Uhm... "test save" that you can run in that regard, to see if many signs may tank your FPS or not

BTW, there's a big distinction between "unique signs" and signs whose settings are copy-pasted from another. Unique ones are the expensive ones in terms of processing power.

Also, signs used to all emit light, but now (1.0 iirc) only Billboard ones do, so how heavy they are on the lighting engine has probably changed

[gloomy shoal]

Oh, boo. I guess signs weren't supposed to be used as lights anyways, so it does make sense

[frosty owl]

Their whole reasoning for not adding smalller light sources (often requested) was that they could crush performance. They probably shot themselves in the foot, making small signs emit light

Don't get me wrong, it was extremely cool and I loved it.
But I understand the performance worries

[gloomy shoal]

I already get a little framey when I look at my modest Machinery Pit^tm, I can't imagine how bad having proper lights could fuck it up
Granted I also made the "Excellent" decision to crank my graphics settings back up at some point, which I should probably reverse

I do hope that doing so won't fuck up the reflective finishes, I am quite fond of them

[frosty owl]

Worst case scenario is just a little bit of slide-showing....
Actually no, signs may go black/unrendered in extreme scenarios, or so I heard

[gloomy shoal]

Well, signs aren't exactly my concern (I'm not intending to use them in general, and frankly the things I would use them for are just as well kept in the to-do list)

[frosty owl]

But they're pretty!

[gloomy shoal]

...I'm not sure what kinda labelmakers you own but my labelling is pretty purpose-built

[frosty owl]

It's not just labeling, it's also decor and (was) lighting and mood-setting and... Just... They feel so damn good... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/1166343861820473394/Screenshot20231016-22372900000.png?ex=6875989e&is=6874471e&hm=02f1535838776323e1fe0e2afaff3b66754df92ba4d3b41bf9ec0ccbc97e7b1a&

[gloomy shoal]

Bold to assume I have the patience to do tiny, persnickety details like that-

[frosty owl]

Fair enough 😆
How badly I burned out when doing that is proof of how tedious that can get (tbf there was no "eyedropper upgrade" yet)

The fact that there's no "cool lights and colors" effect as a payoff too, now, only makes the process more painful :/

[quick gorge]

My computer can melt but as long as my building looks like a different game..
so be it

[kindred carbon]

Cyberpunk 2077 xD

I played for like an hour today

[bronze ermine]

Any recommendations?

[earnest zephyr]

solid steel ingot in IMO atleast is one of the best recipe

just smelt the iron first then and you get more steel for the same amount of resources used

[brisk urchin]

solid steel ingot gives more items for your items as the regular recepie

charcoal you never to very rarely use in early game

cant imagine any other scenario where you would use this recepie

[limpid vapor]

charcoal is basically useless, you cant do automated production with it

[bronze ermine]

Thx gang

[wind spade]

recommendation: pick any recipe that you want, you can get all recipes anyway and all of them are useful in certain scenarios. If you like what a recipe offers, go use it, experiment 😉

[unique cypress]

Solid steel fell down a fair bit in my personal ranking since the introduction of iron pipe

Now you only need steel for a few buildables, versatile frameworks and default plutonium rods

For HMFs and motors, the biggest steel consumers in the past, steel is now optional

[frosty owl]

Any reference is purely coincidental ^^
I haven't played that game

[fallow siren]

can completely skip steel with aluminum beam

[wind spade]

I mean you can skip steel... but whether you should is another question 😛

[unique cypress]

Not completely. Versatile frameworks are needed to unlock aluminium

[wind spade]

just buy the beams then

[unique cypress]

Imagine doing a coalless playthrough

[wind spade]

biocoal 😛

[unique cypress]

That's... still coal

[wind spade]

I mean the same "skip steel" still uses steel beam and steel pipe

you just skip making them in their default way

[jovial jacinth]

Just doing the "no foundry" challenge over here

[glacial peak]

solid steel is very good i only got access to it now in phase 4 which was a pain

[glacial peak]

the neon lighting does kinda look like night city. gotta say i couldn't put this much thought and effort in my current factories (at least not till i get better at planning)

[frosty owl]

Ngl, kinda same 😅
Updates have made my building style "obsolete", I still have to get back up to date...

[glacial peak]

life is not daijoubu

[cerulean stratus]

Yesterday I learned that I can replace oil with quartz

For computers and other electronics

[fallow siren]

oiless computer, my fav alt for early phase 3, just for personal use

[cerulean stratus]

It's surprising to me because a lot of the times I use oil for so much stuff

[fallow siren]

you can basically finish phase 3 without using any oil except plubber for personal uses

stuffs like circuit board can be easily found in crash sites location

[viral sparrow]

silicon circuit board

[fallow siren]

yes, thats why oiless computer is possible

[viral sparrow]

goes very well with crystal computers too

[fallow siren]

im mentioning it cuz some crash sites have circuit board in large quantity, so you can use them for space parts without the need of handcrafting it

[cerulean stratus]

I use those for unlocking the depot early

Or maybe it's sloopclocking

[unique cypress]

eh, I prefer the caterium alts
crystal + silicon uses a ton of quartz. plus iron for default oscillator. and it needs more machines

[split sierra]

is the dark ion fuel recipe just bad?

i was doing a couple of calculations in my head

[wind spade]

it is much simpler to make, but requires more resources

[split sierra]

yeah but

you get more energy by just using the rocket fuel

[wind spade]

you get more energy by just doing nuclear 🤷

[split sierra]

ok that youre not strictly supposed to be still using fuel generators by that part of the game

[vapid gorge]

ion fuel is great in jet packs and makes drones go zoom?
but yeah jsut do nuclear if you need big power

[deft lichen]

For the purposes of powering Fuel Generators, the Dark-Ion Fuel alternate recipe is a net negative. Because Rocket Fuel is packaged at a 2 to 1 ratio, 240 Packaged Rocket Fuel per minute equates to 480 m3 Rocket Fuel per minute. 480 m3 Rocket Fuel per minute can fuel slightly over 115 generators at 100% clock speed; The standard Ionized Fuel recipe has a 1 to 1 conversion rate, resulting in 480 m3 Ionized Fuel per minute, which fuels 160 generators. Dark-Ion Fuel, meanwhile, creates less than half as much Ionized Fuel, and the resulting 200 m3 Ionized Fuel per minute will only fuel slightly more than 66 generators, providing much less power than simply consuming the Rocket Fuel outright.
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Ionized_Fuel

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah but refineries suck

[unique cypress]

1/3 of all of my machines are refineries

[split sierra]

yeah i was talking about the alt recipe

[vapid gorge]

afaik the base ion fuel recipe is also net negative from RF

[split sierra]

which is insanely funny because other than giving out less than half the original liquid it also eats the fluid tanks

[fallow siren]

its just not good for power source, but its a good jetpack fuel

[cerulean stratus]

Thoughts on fine concrete?

[glacial peak]

good for early game

[cerulean stratus]

If you're going the oil route, fine concrete is something you do with a trash resource
If you're going the quartz route it's the opposite, with the rubber concrete

[glacial peak]

but in late game you need a lot of quartz. so silica is a fine commodity

[cerulean stratus]

I really only needed it for oscillators

[glacial peak]

then go ahead and use the extra quartz. doesnt hurt

if you need more quartz later on you can just make wet concrete refineries later on

since water is anything but rare

[wind spade]

it's fine

[vapid gorge]

if you have spare silica and want more crete? it's solid

[wind spade]

no it's not solid, it's fine

[cerulean stratus]

Cheap silica is absolutely amazing though imo

[glacial peak]

damn i hate that when i look up the satisfactory wiki that the fandom one always shows up

instead of the .gg one

[wind spade]

if only there was a browser extension that solved this problem 😛

[deft lichen]

you can either use the redirect extension, or open wiki.gg and search on the wiki directly

https://www.wiki.gg/redirect

[glacial peak]

i forgot it existed

thamk

all my homies hate fandom

[cerulean stratus]

Wait so what exactly consumes a lot of quartz

[wind spade]

depends what recipes you use, so basically "anything you choose"

[glacial peak]

for me the computer parts do

[cerulean stratus]

Is it the crystal oscillators or the circuit boards

[glacial peak]

both

[cerulean stratus]

The issue that I see is that if you don't want to use oil

You need a place with quartz, copper, caterium, iron

[glacial peak]

yeah it's a bit of a hastle but it's worth it to save oil at least for now for me cause most oil i use for power

once i get farther in phase 4 ill prob make a proper large factory for the computer parts

[cerulean stratus]

You can have some oil for power up in the spire coast
And then use some oil in a better spot

[glacial peak]

i need to find the diluted oil recipe tho my luck has been miserable

[glacial peak]

dont even think i got to that coast yet, all my oil is in the blue crater

[cerulean stratus]

Ah. You're a newbie

[glacial peak]

maybe soon

[glacial peak]

well yeah it's my first playthrough

i spend my first 60 hrs being an idiot

so only now im picking up the pace like 130 hrs in

[cerulean stratus]

An idiot how?

[glacial peak]

i didn't use any foundations for my first like 30+ hrs

so everything was not on any grid

and my ratios on the machines were all kinds of fucked

so i removed everything and re-did it like by the 60 hr mark

i forgot to automate motors and stators again tho i should do that my storage is running low

[cerulean stratus]

It's all part of the game.

I took a 1 month break, and only came back once I figured out manifolds, and the central bus factory

[glacial peak]

i used load balancers for everything for far too long

so much space wasted

[cerulean stratus]

And it took me until my first multiplayer game to learn that when I'm needing a part, I need to make all the parts behind it

[glacial peak]

but eh it's just me being obtuse and avoiding to rebuild everything for a bit

a sneak peek at how bad the spaghet got

but now it's all gone so :>

[cerulean stratus]

I was like "I'd like to rebuild, but then I'll rebuild and end up in the same position again"

[glacial peak]

this is the way

[cerulean stratus]

"I have to build it in a way that I can just expand without rebuilding"

And then I learned I could just build things on top of it

And it's very hard to build the perfect factory
But if there was one, I think it would be a bit like this one

[barren python]

I would like to start planning for nuclear power. Hopefully plutonium. Would 120k mw be sufficient for an avg world?

[unique cypress]

If you're only planning to complete the game, it should be enough

Also, a "kmw" doesn't exist. The unit you're looking for is called a GW

[barren python]

I just don't want to be halfway through building it and realize it is not enough

[barren python]

120k as in 120,000 mw sorry

[tall dew]

I finished once with only 30 GW at one item per minute. So 120 GW would be more then enough and allows you to scale up a bit.

Also that was production not usage, usage was below that even.

[unique cypress]

It entirely depends on what else you build. I've seen people complete the game on half that or even less. As long as you don't go too crazy, it'll be enough.

I, myself, had double that in 1.0, before even finishing phase 5. And you conceivably could use even 10x or more.

[barren python]

Thank you for the advice

[wind spade]

Yeah that's GW 🙂

[thorn bane]

1.0 finished? that seems incredibly low for quantum encoders etc.

[split sierra]

if i remove one of the block signals the entire section turns orange, is this just an unlucky case of color cycling?

[wind spade]

No, colors should change on signals

[tall dew]

1/min and not more, also did a lot via box feeding not full factory for producing a part.

[gloomy palm]

do you guys think it would be useful to have 'Min', 'Max' and 'Avg' dotted horizontal lines on this graph?

[wind spade]

not really, because if you want min, max and avg on the graph, it would be the same as the yellow line

[gloomy palm]

I see.. what I was hoping for was to see a number that doesn't change over the course of a minute, sort of like the values of the minute rather than the values of each polling second, if that makes sense

[compact pond]

heres the setup for phase 3.. any thoughts?

i mainly focused on creating quartz and oil products

[split sierra]

i'd recommend rounding those numbers up to maximize the nodes, subdivide in smaller plans for readability and ease the previous point

also, solid steel 🙂

[summer flare]

Surely that's the number displayed on the monitor

[dusky dust]

My own thought is "how can you expect anyone to make sense out of that unlabelled bird's-nest of a diagram"

[compact pond]

by being the one who created it lmao

[dusky dust]

Right, that's my ongoing complaint about Modeller. It's great for the people using it (I assume, anyway) but utter dog#$@! for conveying information to anyone else

It's just a huge mess of "guess the recipe" and in some cases "guess the resource"

[compact pond]

yea unless u take the time to move everything around and make it clear

[dusky dust]

Even then

[glacial peak]

It can be done tidy but that requires effort

[dusky dust]

I hate that it doesn't label anything

[glacial peak]

I try to tidy mine up

[dusky dust]

Just bloody have some text to tell people what the recipes are, at least, Modeller. Sheesh.

[glacial peak]

And label stuff

[gloomy palm]

it keeps changing rapidly 🥺

[dusky dust]

And there's even a pair of recipes which have the exact same inputs, so you'd have to, like, look at a wiki to compare the input rates to even know which one that is

But no, Modeller's all "how about you spend minutes trying to interpret these tiny icons" instead.

Anyway, enough grumping from me. :D Sorry!

[glacial peak]

It's great for the one using it just not for people unfamiliar with your work

Since most models are only seen by me I make them tidy cause I want to

[dusky dust]

(I get that labels would be kind of redundant to folks using the app, since there's mouseovers and such; I just wish it had some kind of "export" function which would label things, for folks sharing graphs)

[glacial peak]

True but the guy's feature backlog is already gonna take months (I'm on his discord)

He prob has some QoL stuff in the backlog

Like labels, Fullscreen, some optimization stuff etc

[summer flare]

It takes time to calibrate at the start, even then I've found it will take another minute to display the actual throughput if it's not regular.
Unless your throughput is actually changing.

[gloomy palm]

hmm :\

it's regular, just chaotically regular

[summer flare]

When I say it takes another minute, the throughput displayed will converge over that time to the actual and then be stable.

[gloomy palm]

aH

it keeps cycling between a few values

[unique cypress]

I wish they gave us the ability to customize the averaging time

[summer flare]

What are you doing when that happens?

[warm granite]

This is how I've been running my aluminum factory. I don't have to math, I know recycled water is being used first and new water will eventually feed the Alumina Solution process. Priority mergers made what used to be a living hell - satisfactory

[oblique hollow]

I like the math, i'll keep advocating for split recycled.
if you really cant do it, then that priority merger setup will be the last resort.

[thorn bane]

could already do that before prio mergers
its just way to big imo
packagers take up so much space

[unique cypress]

Yeah, they're a bit too slow for my liking

A VIP is much smaller

[wind spade]

separate refineries are even smallerer

[unique cypress]

Unless you overclock, no they aren't

Unless you hit the perfect ratio, you need one more refinery than you do with a VIP.

And the ratio for sloppy + electrode is something stupid like 7 recycled : 3 fresh

[split sierra]

yeah 9 packagers for 300 alu into 600 scrap take quite a bit of space

[unique cypress]

And then you'd need 13.(3) scrap refineries so the actual ratio is 21 recycled : 9 fresh : 40 scrap

[thorn bane]

wait can you not do this in modeler or am i dumb?

[unique cypress]

Meanwhile, with a VIP, the ratio is 3 sloppy : 4 electrode and you just add 180 water, which fits in a mk2 exactly. Just repeat the setup until you have all the scrap you need

[unique cypress]

You need a priority merger for the alumina iirc?

[glacial peak]

I used no merger one sec

[thorn bane]

anyway
i did 600 bauxite chunks oced to 250%
thats 400% scrap and 300% sloppy so at least 2 scrap and 2 sloppy buildings
with seperate loop thats 90% and 210% so the same amount of buildings as VIP

[glacial peak]

I'll open the modeler

[thorn bane]

got it working if i supply water idk

[glacial peak]

yeah i did pretty much the same

except with 15 instead of 20 manufacturers

i just manually input everything anyway

for the lines you can select 2D in styles so they are straight lines, makes it more readable

[oblique hollow]

modeler doesnt like feedback loops from what i heard

also discord didnt scroll... yippie

[oblique hollow]

which, honestly, isnt that bad.

if you do 50 refineries and you need a 51st, who cares

[thorn bane]

except you wont do 50 refineries
thats like 5000 water or w.e. in 1 system

[oblique hollow]

hyperbole

[unique cypress]

No it's not. But greeny said that with separate fresh and byproduct water, it's less space than a VIP. Which is just false outside of very specific cases (or overclocking)

[thorn bane]

but ye
imagine not overclocking in 2k25 when shards are literally free

[glacial peak]

the auto calculator certainly doesnt but you can do it in manual with lil issue

[oblique hollow]

for sloppy + electrode, the water ratio might be whack, but the machine ratio is still a neat 3 to 4
or rather "1:1"

[unique cypress]

If you want to keep the systems separate, you'd need an extra alumina refinery for every 3

[oblique hollow]

(im sure this has been shared to death, but i get to bring it up again cause i made it after all)

[glacial peak]

plumbing manual my beloved

the only thing keeping me sane when i have to do pipework

[oblique hollow]

do the actual 21 to 40 and you get no extra xd

[thorn bane]

ye thats what i did (just oc)
the 720/min water is a bit worrying but its fiiiineeee

[oblique hollow]

well... its actually still 40 and 30 refs and not 21, but the point is there

[split sierra]

reject fluid dynamics

[unique cypress]

Ah, yes because I need aluminium ingots in multiples of 6000

[oblique hollow]

yes

why not

[thorn bane]

9 packagers
NINE
wtf
why is it 60/min hello CSS?

[split sierra]

maybe

[unique cypress]

I need to figure out a decent setup for refineries at 250%. Cus my standard setup only works for refs at 100

[oblique hollow]

if i ever get the chance to build another aluminum plant in tier 9 i'll try instant scrap and just use ore conversion to make sulfur from coal
(a luxury i can afford in all honesty)

[oblique hollow]

what exactly do you mean with decent?

[unique cypress]

something small I can repeat without building a ton of extra refineries

[split sierra]

it's even funnier when you consider they unload at 120

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message

[oblique hollow]

because it has good ratio with diluted fuel.
also
who the hell packages water outside of diluted packaged

[unique cypress]

that's... at 100%

[thorn bane]

ye just do that at 250%
2 scrap 2 solution

[oblique hollow]

probably counts as "too many extra refineries" ?

[thorn bane]

idk its hard to find something better imo
without having too big of a fluid network

[oblique hollow]

btw why does it only work at 100%
what even is your standard setup

[unique cypress]

Like I wanted to keep the 600/min total water but the 1.2 refineries sucks

[unique cypress]

3:4 with a VIP

but overclocked to 250%, 3 refineries becomes 1.2

[oblique hollow]

i hate the way it shows overclocking as a circle and then you have to multiply that with the machine amount

250% * 1.2
ugh

thats just 3 refineries anyway

or 2 if you share clock rate between them

[thorn bane]

ye dont think it gets better than this

[oblique hollow]

once again, yes, i know modeler isnt meant for sharing with others.

but still, that overclock display pisses me the fuck off

[unique cypress]

I'll probably do this but idk how to deal with the water. I don't wanna do 3 VIPs lol

[oblique hollow]

best you can do is scale this all up to 3 at 250% and 4 at 250%, ye
water can probably be solved

give me a moment there

imma jump ingame to test something real quick

[warm granite]

You could pack more m³ fluid in a solid train than a simple fluid train. Which is silly. Or you would be transporting by drone/truck...or T5/T6 conveyors exceed throughput of a T2 fluid pipe

[oblique hollow]

You can pack more m³, yes, but you need to deal with empty canisters

if you trash them upon each delivery, you save space, yea

but if you transport them back, not really

[unique cypress]

if you load them back onto the same train, you also save space

you only don't if you use a second train or separate wagons

But if you use a 2nd station to use the same train, and the same wagons, you gain double the density and lose 1 minute of route time

[warm granite]

Recycled systems also minimize the resources used for canisters letting you focus on say plastics for circuit boards

Aluminum for heat sinks/ casings

[glacial peak]

quick question are mk3 miners twice as fast as mk2 or less?

[unique cypress]

2x

[glacial peak]

so i know to plan ahead how much space i need for the aluminum

[glacial peak]

thamk <3

[timid sentinel]

I finaly unlocked hover pack on my new save and it is now time to automate aluminum. I am wondering if it is smart to bring all bauxite available on the map and make one centralized aluminum ingot factory?

[glacial peak]

that is what im doing

in the swamp where the 3 nodes are

[thorn bane]

you wont need that much alu

[glacial peak]

then bringing the rest over

[thorn bane]

also its usually dont in batches anway so not much gain

[glacial peak]

maximizing aluminum so i never need to worry about it again

plus i wanna make a big 'fuck you' aluminum factory

to never worry bout aluminum again

[timid sentinel]

Last time I pulled all bauxite from west map side, about half off all available nodes. But didn't get to late game and dont know if it could be a problem

[glacial peak]

you prob dont need all of them i think just choosing the ones central or west will be enough

but that obviously depends on how big you want your base to be before the end

im planning to keep mine for a while after the end

[timid sentinel]

same, and i do not wan't to have any bussiness with aluminum for next 500h atleast 😄