math-and-meta

[wind spade]

read this as "the only recipe that KYO considers worth is..."

practically all recipes are worth if the property they optimise for is the property you want to optimise for 😉

[brisk urchin]

why are you so agressive against someone giving their opinion about alternate recepies 🤣

[brisk urchin]

like im not hating on you or anything

[wind spade]

I'm not agressive when they give their opinion

I'm agressive when they present it as a fact

[brisk urchin]

but every time? come on man

[graceful tundra]

oh yeah DAYUM

[wind spade]

(because there's tons of people that don't understand that the "opinion" presented as a fact is indeed an opinion. And then those people come here and complain how "user said this is good/bad, but I find it bad/good, wtf")

or worse - they suffer through the "this is good" recipe and their game experience is lowered

[unique cypress]

Bro is obsessed with the idea that "all recipes are good, actually". And while I'd say that no recipe is completely useless, there very much are better and worse recipes and the vast majority of people agree on what those are

[wind spade]

but if you add "in my opinion" or "when optimising for weighted resources" or something like that to your statements, it suddenly makes much more sense to those people

[graceful tundra]

bolted plates :kekw:

[wind spade]

space/power efficiency at the cost of resources

[graceful tundra]

yeah, tbh i'm biased by my vision, i don't give a damn about space

[unique cypress]

And that just proves that you haven't done the math. Because it doesn't even save space. That's why I'm calling it trash

[graceful tundra]

woa, I sounded aggressive, didn't mean it that way

[wind spade]

it does vs normal plates

anything else is no longer comparing two recipes, but recipe paths

[wind spade]

and that's completely fine and valid. and I'm completely fine with "I don't like them because I don't care about space saving"

the problem is when you come here and say "bolted plate is shit, don't use it" (as many people do), because many players will just read this and consider it hard truth. Which very much hurts the experience of playing a game where there's so many options to try and people have vastly different preferences

[graceful tundra]

yep

[brisk urchin]

yeah exactly, in my opinion everybody should just think for themselves, because even if you use an ineficient recepie, thats how you learn in life

[wind spade]

also this is a very important point - comparing just "recipe A vs recipe B" is very problematic, as it ignores recipe combinations and such. In general, it's a bad idea imo to compare just two recipes, you have to compare whole recipe paths, at which point you can't just say "recipe A is bad because when comparing these two paths, I don't like the one with recipe A", as that's just blaming one recipe for whole recipe path. You most likely didn't check all possible paths and there's definitely some where recipe A shines

[brisk urchin]

so it doesnt matter anyways

[unique cypress]

I don't think I've compared all possible paths, but I have compared every path involving bolted plate that anyone mentioned they actually used. And they're all worse than stitched + iron wire in every metric that those people cared about.

I've had this discussion so many times

[wind spade]

and finally - when comparing recipe paths, you should clarify what your preferences are, because even if you really compare all paths (which is practically impossible due to sheer amount of them), your "best" selection is still based on some parameters you chose

[graceful tundra]

yeah, that's what i usually do, but only watching it through the scope of ressource efficiencyw, with complete disregard for amount of machines or odd rates, and sometimes i pick something much less efficient in one ressource but much more in another because that's what fit bests the biome i build in

ex: this turbofuel plant that has a trash oil/ turbofuel ratio, but isn't bottlenecked by the sulfur, and doesn't even use coal

[unique cypress]

Now compare it to just fuel lol

Sure, it'll be more oil, but not much more, and no sulfur

[vapid gorge]

turbo blend is great?
it's the planner thats awful there

[graceful tundra]

oh fack

well, that was one time costing mistake LMFAO

[deft lichen]

yeah, turbofuel is hardly worth the effort compared to just making more diluted fuel

unless you build the factory in the one place on the map that has all resources nearby (lake forest)

[vapid gorge]

I quite like the splitting of oil and merging them back together for turbo blend 😄 ratios are soothing

[wind spade]

120 RIP/min
just base recipes: 936 MW, 168 machines (13268 m2)
bolted: 807 MW, 181 machines (12970 m2)

tell me how bolted is not space AND power efficient over base (with all other recipes base)

(I didn't include miners, but the difference is 1440 vs 1580 ore, so should be negligible)

[unique cypress]

It is if you care about oil efficiency. But that's the default turbofuel recipes. Blend is meh and heavy is trash

[deft lichen]

the game becomes so much easier once you stop caring about raw resource efficiency 😛

[graceful tundra]

unless you have stupid amounts of coal and sulfur

[graceful tundra]

oh yeah, that was one hell of an oversight

[unique cypress]

Because I'm not compared it to default. Read what I write ffs

[deft lichen]

with rocket fuel available, it's questionable whether making 5.67k turbofuel is really worth it

[graceful tundra]

or the 3375 i am making lol

[deft lichen]

?

[wind spade]

so you compare A to B and ignore C, I see

[graceful tundra]

there is not enough coal or sulfur available, i went with blend, and i'm making 3375

[deft lichen]

that's still a TON

[unique cypress]

I compared default to stitched too. I don't see a reason to compare bolted and default when both are worse than stitched

[graceful tundra]

I've seen people on yt make turbofuel plants, so it thought it was good, and didn't bother checking the rates with just fuel...

Yikes

[wind spade]

because people may not have stitched? because people may not want to use wire, or get extra recipe for iron wire because they don't want to use copper?

[graceful tundra]

Eh, only 112500 MW

[deft lichen]

that's quite a lot... 😄

[graceful tundra]

I mean, yeah, i now make 13 times what i made before, but i can get the same multiplication of power again with nuclear

[wind spade]

the (unasked) question was "what's the use of bolted plate", to which my answer was "space/power saving at the cost of extra resources", because that's what you get if you replace base RIPs with bolted.

I never claimed that it's most power/space saving you can get from any possible RIP path

[oblique hollow]

The only good thing heavy has going for it is an "easier" ratio for when you recycle compacted coal from making rocket fuel the normal way

Its much less awkward with the numbers there, but in turn a lot more expensive

[dreamy umbra]

i feel like anything involved screws is inefficient

[oblique hollow]

Also is now a good time to shill out for adhered iron plate?
I find it funny

Same for steel coated plate

[wind spade]

that's hardly true

(well, you also need to define what do you mean by "efficient")

[unique cypress]

It requires oil, so I usually don't include them in comparisons, since they're tier 5, but yep, they're both decent

[unique cypress]

Copper rotor is alright.

[wind spade]

... depending on certain definition of "efficient"

[dreamy umbra]

my bad,i define efficiency as "the least amount of buildings and logistics involved"

as in,two refineries are more efficient than four smelters

[unique cypress]

That's not a very common definition of efficiency

[dreamy umbra]

i agree

[wind spade]

the first part is relatively easy to calculate, however "leaset amount of logistics" would be very hard to quantify due to practically infinite amount of possibilites of how would one build certain setup

[dreamy umbra]

mostly belt limits

[wind spade]

as for "least amount of buildings", I'd bet that steel screws (which save you tons of buildings often) will appear somewhere

[dreamy umbra]

true!
hovewer thay require a whole T3 belt per constructor,which is a bit insane tbh

[dreamy umbra]

not phrased right

[wind spade]

I mean in general you want your screws to be built in front of the machine that needs them anyway, no matter which recipe

so logistics of screws are both very easy that way, and they do not change based on recipe choice

[dreamy umbra]

hmm,i heard that many times but never really tried it

maybe that's why i don't like screws

xd

[wind spade]

it's very common "mistake" that people do which leads to screws hate

[unique cypress]

I mean screws themselves are fine if you do that. But that doesn't change the fact that the recipes that use them are meh at best and absolute garbage at worst

[dreamy umbra]

maybe i should move screws via drone port

[wind spade]

you match the machines 1:1 or 2:1 or whatever ratio, possibly change clock speed to make the ratio friendlier, and it works great

recipes that use them are meh at best and absolute garbage at worst
(see this is the problem I was talking about)

[dreamy umbra]

by the way,cast screws are still the best screw recipe right

[unique cypress]

No, and they never were

[oblique hollow]

Cast is simplest, initially

Just because its simple doesnt mean its good

[dreamy umbra]

why though? iron is extremely abundant

[unique cypress]

I find it a waste of a drive comparable to biocoal and charcoal

[wind spade]

depends what do you mean by "best"

[dreamy umbra]

biocoal or cast screws

[oblique hollow]

Neither, reroll

[dreamy umbra]

compliant with my definition of efficiency

[unique cypress]

Leave both to rot in the hard drive library

[wind spade]

then steel screws

[dreamy umbra]

probably yes

[wind spade]

the only case where cast screws give you some advantage over other possible screw paths is:

• you don't have/don't want to use steel
• you want to save space and power
• you don't need 40 per machine and are fine with per minute production changing to 50 (for matching production)

[unique cypress]

Not making any screws in the first place is probably best in that case

[dreamy umbra]

i used cast screws for my 5HMF/min production

[wind spade]

in any other case, there's a better path to screws:

• saving resources? steel rod -> base screw
• saving space? steel screw
• don't want to waste a drive? base screw

[graceful tundra]

What's the difference between the firdt two

[dreamy umbra]

the "efficiency" is using available computing power efficiently
the only reason i can even play the game is because devs heavily optimised it

[wind spade]

first one uses less steel but more machines
second one uses more steel but less machines

[graceful tundra]

What about molded steel beams?

In the steel screws recipe

[unique cypress]

Just use Satisfactory Tools and compare whatever the hell you want

[wind spade]

that's no longer part of "make screws" path 🤷

[dreamy umbra]

its making beams,then screws
so technically it is

[wind spade]

oh I thought you're talking about EIBs

[oblique hollow]

Its now less steel and more concrete

[dreamy umbra]

infinitely more concrete,which is free anyways

[wind spade]

everything is free by that definition

[oblique hollow]

Do you really wanna go that hard on screws now tho

[wind spade]

I mean why not

[oblique hollow]

might as well just do normals screws at that point

[dreamy umbra]

centralised steel beam production probably

[oblique hollow]

Sounds like you want logistical trouble

[dreamy umbra]

why not

[oblique hollow]

Centralized steel beams to go out to making screws Encased Beams and maybe even plutonium rods

[oblique hollow]

Eh,no thanks personally

[dreamy umbra]

its fun tho

[unique cypress]

Why tf would you send a zoomed-out screenshot with no labels instead of a link

[dreamy umbra]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=z2ndfT8gG1A9xXuCPjxi

[oblique hollow]

Not to me, so no thanks

[dreamy umbra]

because the spitderweb itself is funny

[unique cypress]

Such inconvenient numbers

[dreamy umbra]

NPP fuel rod production is outsorced as much as possible

the advanced part nubers are just something i came up with

[unique cypress]

I was mostly talking about the turbo motors, SCs

[dreamy umbra]

oh

yeah i just winged it

[unique cypress]

Also, double alumina?

Choose one lol

[dreamy umbra]

calculator funny lol

it works tho!

[wind spade]

calculator optimal 🙂

[dreamy umbra]

true

i can show how it looks

[unique cypress]

Yeah, it likes using default alumina to make silica for silicon CBs

[dreamy umbra]

the big stack is default,the small stack is sloppy

i have been running it for quite a while and ironing out the kinks,seems to run fine

[dreamy umbra]

the refineries only recycling less than a single mk2 pipe of water really helps,the rest goes to fuel

actually,is it a valid strategy to get rid of ater from aluminum refining by burning it in generators/diluted fuel refining?

[wind spade]

valid as anything else, though I'd just recycle it back into the system

[dreamy umbra]

alright

maybe i should place my next aluminum build near a NPP

[wind spade]

but yeah people have been using coal gens/nuclear plants/wet concrete/pure recipes/etc. to "get rid" of water

[unique cypress]

I mean as long as you're using it for something useful that isn't just getting sunk, that's still recycling

[oblique hollow]

Nukes to banish the water.... hehe

[wind spade]

honestly all approaches are valid, the "worst" I've seen is making canisters and sinking packaged water 😄

[dreamy umbra]

using pure to get rid of water is daangerous,once the output clogs up on one factory the others stop

[dreamy umbra]

this is when you know somebody has excess oil

[wind spade]

well practically all factories should run 24/7 and overflow to sink, so that shouldn't be a problem

[wind spade]

you can do oilless canisters

[unique cypress]

Putting it in buffers and flushing them is probably worse

[wind spade]

yeah, the only "problem" I have with it is that it forces me to build it near the other thing that uses water

[wind spade]

well, I was talking about fully automated solutions, but yeah 😄

[dreamy umbra]

if somebody pulls off a 4hr fluid buffer,just give them the credit at this point

[brisk urchin]

also somewhat of a solution, if you have polymer resin as a byproduct then you can recycle double the water

[fallow siren]

thats where you use sink to get rid all of it

fuel power need sinks to get rid of byproduct to run continuously

[vapid gorge]

@kindred carbon keep it split

[kindred carbon]

Lemme see

[vapid gorge]

@turbid dove

example of it

[kindred carbon]

Yea I figured out a way that works for my set up

Thanks

I’ll explain it later if anyone needs it

[turbid dove]

Yea this is way easier

[vapid gorge]

you can clock it neatly like this too so each refinery just feeds the one in front

[turbid dove]

That makese sense actaully

[fallow siren]

300 bauxite with sloppy + normal scrap recipe into pure ingot

waste and fresh completely separated

[graceful tundra]

i couldn't at the time

[kindred carbon]

Can you do one for 2760 bauxite with sloppy and electrode

[vapid gorge]

sure but I'd break it up into groups. You do not want to make one big system

[kindred carbon]

Yea I’ll have each belt separate

[vapid gorge]

sloppy +normal is hte top right example

[fallow siren]

sloppy and electrode is better to be broken into group of 300, 600 and 1200

[unique cypress]

you can just do one yourself lmao

in SFTools if you're on mobile

[vapid gorge]

I prefer electrode not just because of the slight output boost, but beacause it's easier moving a small volume of oil instead of a mountain of coal

[graceful tundra]

oh damn, had no idea there was a mobile solution

[kindred carbon]

I’m using 2 pure nodes and 2 normal nodes

[unique cypress]

it's a website so it works on basically any device that can access the modern web

[vapid gorge]

yeah just process the nodes on their own

[wind spade]

works? yes
works well? eh, questionable, not much optimised for phone
😄

[unique cypress]

works fine in landscape. a bit buggy and you have to take your time when typing or it reads the inputs in reverse order, but it's perfectly usable once you know how

oh, and you can get stuck on a graph because you can't scroll up if it takes up the entire screen

[wind spade]

eh, there's a few reports of things being annoying on phone 😄

yeah like that

[kindred carbon]

I just multiply the numbers together right? Should work just fine with 2x OC

[fallow siren]

should work since the graph i sent are all underclocked below 100%

[split sierra]

i'm currently planning for turbo fuel and ammo / nobelisk factory, is there any reason to still want normal nobelisks over the cluster ones?

[kindred carbon]

Can you do the one with electrode scrap?

I tried and didn’t know how to get it right

[dreamy umbra]

only because they are cheaper

[fallow siren]

this is group of 600 , works well with 300 (just underclock it to half speed of current one) and 1200 ( double the clock speed is possible but need 4th electrode refinery)

[dreamy umbra]

and maybe if you are interested in a 7.5 blast radius as opposed to a 5 blast radius

[fallow siren]

this is 780 baux, but the number is not as nice as 600

[dreamy umbra]

the damage dealt is far higher due to the bomblets

[kindred carbon]

and to feed the electrode refinery I can just connect all the sloppy pipes together right?

[fallow siren]

you can, but having it separated has nicer clock for electrode refinery

you can also make this setup as 2 part blueprint since 1.1 added auto connect

[graceful tundra]

time to make weapons now

the pain is real

[unique cypress]

Yeah, weapon factories are a surprising pain despite their small size

[graceful tundra]

stupid amount of steps, and i've been checking drives for this goddamn caterium circuit board

[unique cypress]

If you don't mind "cheating" you can save scum rescans to get any recipe you want

[graceful tundra]

hmmm

[graceful tundra]

welp, was about to, and got it in the first rescan

[fierce ruin]

is this a good layout?

just finished phase 2

[graceful tundra]

you don't really need to overproduce ingots and ores

[unique cypress]

Post an image that is actually readable or a tools link because I have absolutely no clue what you're making

[graceful tundra]

and uh, maybe you should explore alternate recipes

[fierce ruin]

didnt plan on overproducing, just trying to see how much i need

[bitter grail]

IMO as long as you are able to make what you need/want then does it really matter if it is ‘good’?

And you can always expand later or make new factories

[fierce ruin]

wym a tools link

and yeah ik about the drives, i need to go hunting them soon

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production
^ tools

guaranteed to make a resource-efficient plan given constraints

[dreamy umbra]

alternatively you can just save your time and unlock every possible recipe in the interactive map

[vestal sluice]

how did you get those lines to be like that. Nvm found it ahhaha

[chrome oriole]

will this still work as an overflow buffer?

[oblique hollow]

why is there a junction on the top

[chrome oriole]

i want it to output to two machines (petroleum coke, smokeless powder)

[oblique hollow]

ok and where does the heavy oil on the bottom go?

like. if this is overflow, where is not-overflow

[dreamy umbra]

its the conveyor mode Straight,obviously

press R a couple times and you'll get it

[dreamy umbra]

you know what is missing in Satisfactory?
that's right,a military industrial complex!

[kindred carbon]

For 1200 speed the electrode refineries would be OC to 200% right

Also the water gets multiplied in the refineries, essentially infinite water lol

[oblique hollow]

the only infinite water source in aluminum i know is when you put a somersloop in

else its just a finite loop where you get back x% of water

[dreamy umbra]

actually wait,this is absolute cinema

imagine slooping your aluminum production for infinite water

you just gave me an idea

[oblique hollow]

well infinite as in it makes so much water you have an excess in like 50/min or something

so you dont need fresh water. But you need an external water sink

[dreamy umbra]

its balancing time

you will need to put somersloops is some machines but not the others

sloppy alumina and electrode scrap recovers 70% of the water you put in

its actually pretty hard to calculate for my sleepy brain hold on xd

so you need 45m3 of water for every 15 aluminum ingots

3m3 of water per ingot

one plant produces a extra 105m3 of water slooped

this means you will get an astounishing 35 aluminum ingots per sloop

(multiply by 10)

no idea what that means btw

[opaque quartz]

You can math it out to sloop and clock aluminum to make it closed loop only on waste water if you really want

[dreamy umbra]

i think i figured it out,for every 7 refineries you sloop 3 refineries

hurray

[opaque quartz]

Just have to prime it initially and then it will self sustain after that

[dreamy umbra]

i love doing college physics and this at the same time

[dreamy umbra]

just did

[opaque quartz]

Nice

I’ve not tried it myself, have better uses for my sloops tbh

[dreamy umbra]

watch out,its 13 refineries each making 150 ingots per min

3 sloops are worth it for sure

[dreamy umbra]

1950ipm btw

[opaque quartz]

Refineries have two sloop slots. So it’d be 6 sloops if going for full doubling

[dreamy umbra]

oh right

oops

still worth it imo

[opaque quartz]

Still not a bad return tho

[dreamy umbra]

6 sloops for a closed loop aluminum system that can theoretically clog up but never will? count me in!

actually now that i think about it i will math the 1.5x,maybe i will get a better thingamabob

nope,ratio still the same

also completely forgot,you can overclock the slooped refineries

so its 4 sloops at most

profit!

2 sloop wonder!

you will need 238% overclock on the slooped refinery,and a total of 555.5556% of regular refineries!

[willow pilot]

((45 * 5) + 25) / 250

[dreamy umbra]

this will require an input of 1058.0741% of sloppy alumina refineries

[dreamy umbra]

wait no,it will take (5+25/45+2.38)*180/240 or 5.951667 sloppy alumina refineries

(5+25/45+2.38)*150

1190.3333 ingots/min out of 2 somersloops

good?

@wind spade can you take a look once you get online?

this will increase the power consumption of the slooped refinery to 377.6MW

[dreamy umbra]

waow,6-6 refineries!

[willow pilot]

What do each number represent

[kindred carbon]

Okay so I’m in a bit of a pickle, to make this aluminum set up work I’ll need to do 4 electrode scrap refineries at 200%
Each one takes 360 alumina solution, so I’ll need to find a way to combine 3 line of 456, 504, 504 alumina solution and feed the 4th refinery

Do I just connect all of the alumina solution line together and hope that everything will perfectly overflow to the 4th electrode scrap refinery

[willow pilot]

Consult Deepseek

[dreamy umbra]

water deficit per refinery

[willow pilot]

More details

[dreamy umbra]

so first you need to make alumina solution-you make it by adding n amount of water into the system
each alumina solution refinery takes 200 water and produces 240 alumina solution
then alumina electrode scrap refineries take the alumina solution and convert it into aluminum scrap and water
each refinery takes 180 solution and outputs 105

[willow pilot]

The numbers what do they correlate to in order

[wind spade]

on what?

[dreamy umbra]

i'm rethinking my life because of a possible calculation error

this
using somersloops to create a closed loop

[dreamy umbra]

what is your opinion on a closed loop aluminum ingot system that produces 1190.3333 aluminum ingots/min while using at least 3 powershards and 2 somersloops?

[wind spade]

that you should make what you need and/or what you want

[dreamy umbra]

i don't think i committed a mistake

[dreamy umbra]

alright...

[wind spade]

it's for sure possible to make closed loop but why

[dreamy umbra]

because much less pain with liquid handling

[wind spade]

you literally just connect pipes to machines. There's no pain

[dreamy umbra]

one could argue the system will clog up if not built with enough precaution

this system should never clog up

[wind spade]

the system I'm talking about should neither

[dreamy umbra]

true...

[wind spade]

(and it doesn't require to be prefilled)

[dreamy umbra]

its pointless as always...

[kindred carbon]

Step-by-Step Setup:

1. Create a Loop Mainline:

   • Combine your three alumina lines (432, 504, 504) into a closed loop using Mk.2 Pipes.
   • Use pipe junctions (not mergers) to connect inputs/outputs.

2. Feed Refineries from BOTH Sides of the Loop:

   • Place 4 refineries around the loop (2 on each side).
   • Connect each refinery to the loop via a short pipe segment.
   • Why? Loops eliminate "dead ends," allowing fluid to flow bidirectionally and self-balance.

3. Add Fluid Buffers (Critical for Stability!)

   • Place 1-2 Fluid Buffers connected directly to the loop (anywhere).
   • Set buffers to "Fill & Empty" mode.
   • Why? Buffers absorb sloshing, stabilize pressure during startup, and ensure refineries never starve.

4. Optional: Prioritize the "Weak" 432 Line:

   • If the 432 line is furthest from refineries, connect it closest to a buffer or use a Valve set to 432 m³/min to prevent overconsumption.

Is deepseek a genius or just dumb

[kindred carbon]

We shall consult the all knowing satisfactory expert @wind spade

[willow pilot]

Did you press "Deepthink" and or provide it more information?

[kindred carbon]

Deep think, I just copy and pasted what I said here and added the recipes

[wind spade]

dumb

fluid buffers are pointless and will hurt more than help

half of the text doesn't make sense

valves are pointless

[kindred carbon]

I think it’s using 05-26

[willow pilot]

You need paragraphs of technical stuff

[kindred carbon]

Should I just manifold it straight up? And elevate the junctions

[willow pilot]

It's doing its job just at a reduced standard. It needs that information 😍

[wind spade]

you should never use AI to ask questions about a game. Best case you get slightly wrong setup, worst case you get gibberish

[kindred carbon]

Yea I know I was just curious to see its perf lol

It’s mostly stuff from Reddit mixed up

[wind spade]

looping the pipes is fine
combining pipes is not

[kindred carbon]

I’ll try to draw what I’m thinking one second

[willow pilot]

AI can understand and process information much faster than it could for you to learn an optimal setup. You just need to feed it a lot of detail and context

[wind spade]

and yet even in the best case scenario, it will just do what already existing tools do correctly

[willow pilot]

How long would it take you without previous knowledge

[kindred carbon]

The drawing idea was better in my head … bottom would be the sloppy alumina refineries, the black circles are junctions and top is the electrode refienries

The two refineries on the left are the 504 ones, aka waste water refineries

[wind spade]

why even try to use a tool that by definition isn't good for what you want to use it for?

[willow pilot]

What you mean. It's a LLM

[wind spade]

it's a word generator
it's not meant to do math

[kindred carbon]

You can’t play the game with an LLM’s guidance lol

[willow pilot]

It does a lot more than that

[kindred carbon]

For niche topics like video games it’s basically a Reddit comment word generator, it will tell you the general things mostly right but not the specific details

[wind spade]

I'm very much aware what it can do. I'm also aware how 90% of people are using it for things that it isn't good at

[willow pilot]

Weighted points aren't a thing?

[wind spade]

they are, why?

[willow pilot]

I mean the LLM does learn

[wind spade]

but why? we have tools that do the math for you in a fraction of time at a fraction cost

[kindred carbon]

Who is fine tuning llms for satisfactory lol

[broken wing]

It would take a LOT of input for it to learn really much of anything

And it would take non-contradicting ideas

[willow pilot]

Not just for Satisfactory

[thorn bane]

imagine if chatgpt was fed this discords messages

[broken wing]

That would be horrible

[willow pilot]

You can do it, you'd just need a bot with access to the servers

I then package everything into JSON

[dreamy umbra]

damn

[willow pilot]

Need it to be TW

[dreamy umbra]

tw?

[willow pilot]

Terawatt

[dreamy umbra]

no thanks

[willow pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/lr-agl-super-saiyan-god-ss-goku-and-super-saiyan-god-ss-vegeta-all-out-final-battle-god-smashing-power-rage-of-our-warrior-race-kamehameha-and-final-flash-gif-7539520976890738758

[light cosmos]

@kindred carbon you mean this thing?

[kindred carbon]

Yep

It doesn’t show the clock speeds?

[light cosmos]

nope, just say total amount for me

[kindred carbon]

Well it should display the clock speeds when you’re looking at the production visualizer

[plucky tusk]

Bros arguing about a calculator when theres a calculator in game im dead 💀

[graceful tundra]

iron pipe? hmmmm

[kindred carbon]

Why do people love to torture themselves lol

[graceful tundra]

because funny, did turbofuel blend for that reason, and absolutely not because i just didn't bother checking the rates against just using diluted fuel

[dreamy umbra]

cobbled this together in a cave,with a box of scraps

by the way,just a fuel station for drones 4km away

(the trip takes 98 fuel)

[tiny leaf]

does a pipe junction always split 50/50? like if i have 1 input and 1 output goes straight and the other to the side will sloshing make a difference?

[kindred carbon]

I’ll show you my fuel set up for my drones

It’s rocket fuel, so 600 of it will fuel 150-200 drones

[still smelt]

Regarding pipes, does building a tiered factory (with liquid outputs entering machines at a lower height to their source) help to forcefully alleviate stuff like pipe sloshing that causes 1-1 throughput designs from being perpetually starved?

or should I just build it all on one level?

[kindred carbon]

Putting the junctions above the inputs definitely helps

It’s pretty much the only way to get 600 pipes to work semi consistently

[dreamy umbra]

i will use accumulators when i build them in the new factory complex,the fuel station will probably get a rail line.eventually

[dreamy umbra]

i was wondering why my pipes don't slosh

turns out i just subconciosly used a lot of the right tech to prevent sloshing
i became an irl engineer to play a game...

[still smelt]

Is there any benefit to doing this for previously mentioned fluid shenanigans, or would a level pipe work fine? (The input pipe is at a lower starting level than the ring pipe)

[opaque quartz]

generally speaking, simpler pipe systems are better. not sure what you are trying to accomplish here

buffers also help more than they hurt

[dusty comet]

I think I finally figured out how fluid priorities work: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1lr5p8p/solved_how_fluid_priority_actually_works/

[vapid gorge]

buffers also reset then add variable headlift. I don't see why you'd want that there

adding different sections together , especially with buffers, tend to just create more wonk

[thorn bane]

yo thats interesting
so it also works without the junctions but just with many segments?

[vapid gorge]

@oblique hollow

[dusty comet]

Yes

[spare osprey]

If i have 4 coal generators

they take 45 water each so 180 total. Why isn't 2 waterpumps that provide 240 enough?

[thorn bane]

it should be
maybe only 1 pump is connected

[spare osprey]

ok nvm seems it just took a while for the water to build up

or not

generators seem to run out of water for some reason from time to time

[thorn bane]

easy to check
if the efficiency numbers add up to 266% then youre only getting 120/min water
like for example 100/100/33/33 or 66/66/66/66

[vapid gorge]

show an overhead image of what you've done to your pipes

[fierce ruin]

which ones to go with?

[tropic hawk]

depends on your use case

although if you have ones that you don't like you can just rescan them

[fierce ruin]

i have no alt recipies currently and just finished phase 2

[wind spade]

pick any that you like, there's not really "good" or "bad" recipes

[fierce ruin]

ig i mean which would help me progress faster/be more convenient

[wind spade]

that depends on what you find more convenient 🙂

[fierce ruin]

ah less belts ig

[sharp knoll]

Anyone mind a quick sanity check? I'm planning out my first coal gen plant and it seems like i'd need 24 generators? But these things are massive so i'm second guessing myself

[thorn trail]

while this is true, there are some recipes that are more useful than others at specific times in the game. For example, getting Wet Concrete in phase 1-2 doesn't really do you a lot of good compared to something you can use immediately.

[wind spade]

like really, just look at the recipes and decide if that's what you want 🤷

[vapid gorge]

you're never locked out of recipes, you can always get all of them

pick something that will be useful for your next factory or rescan and try again. Or pick at random

[fallow siren]

if its me ill just separate it to 2 group of 600, cuz if you do 1200, the single waste water pipe cant hold 800/min, so you need 2nd pipe which i dont really like to do

[crimson moat]

8 gens consume 120 coal at 100% clock, so you'd need 24 to consume 360 coal

I prefer to underclock gens to 88.88% so that 3 gens consume 30 coal and 120 water (1 water extractor) - it massively simplifies piping.

Don't worry about the space. It's a big world.

[sharp knoll]

ya thats what i was thinking, 4 miners on 2 normal nodes and 2 impure ones would be 360 coal

[old hearth]

Save them all until you feel like you need one of them. And if you ever find heavy oil residue, diluted packaged fuel, recycled rubber, and recycled plastic, you have the most powerful rubber/plastic build in the game

[thorn bane]

id do
steel pipe
steel plate
fused wire
adhered plate
steel screws
reroll

[crimson moat]

I made this for 480 coal for example #screenshots message

[sharp knoll]

i just gotta figure out where i can place 20+ coal generators

[fierce ruin]

by any chance, which of those 6 would u guys rescan (at this point in the game) i just finished Phase 2 and im over the water East of the dunes

[crimson moat]

There's only a couple of good spots with plentiful water at the grassy plains starting area, but plenty elsewhere on the map so it only gets better.

[fallow siren]

i dont rescan, i leave them there until i need them

[thorn bane]

fine concrete and tempered caterium are both kinda bad so that one for sure

[sharp knoll]

im at the other "easy" start, so i'm heading to the coal gen spot on the bottom left (?) part of the map

[old hearth]

I would save them all if I'm going to be honest, the only decent one is steal screws and if u don't scan it or rescan it every alt in the library cannot appear until you take one

[fallow siren]

leaving it in the MAM will exclude them from hard drives pool so its easier for you to snipe certain alts

[fierce ruin]

gotcha ty

[thorn bane]

so does rerolling and keeping that result
except you ccould get something good

[fierce ruin]

so dont rescan unless i really need/want to?

[fallow siren]

pretty much

[thorn bane]

nah
100% reroll anything youre not sure to use to get a chance at solid steel

having 2 bad sitting there is just pointless as rerolling it also eliminates 2 possibilities

[fallow siren]

unless you need some alt desperately, no need for rescan

just leave them there

[thorn bane]

but theres no downside to reroliing

[fierce ruin]

id rather see if i can get a alt rec i can use now

english

[fallow siren]

rescan are much more useful if you have a lot of them in the library, so you can rescan ton shit all at once

[thorn bane]

100% make sure you have steel processing unlocked and then roll for solid steel

[old hearth]

I would say reroll the 1st and 2nd for sure

The rest are up for debate

[fierce ruin]

these ones?

[old hearth]

Yup

[thorn bane]

the others are kinda personal preference
i like low items but hard logistics so stuff like fused wire but it kinda up to you if youd rather build more machines but with simpler logistics or not

[fierce ruin]

take the steel screws

[thorn bane]

molded steel pipe is pretty good imo
its just kinda "free" steel

[old hearth]

I've always found it kinda tedious

[thorn bane]

ye can reroll 2
steel cast is decent but idk

[old hearth]

Steel screws is really good if you are ok with a lot of belts

It makes 260 screws per minute and you are probably mostly using t3 belts

[thorn bane]

yoo copper alloy is insane

[fierce ruin]

good rescan? lmao

[thorn bane]

recycled platic is good but needs others to be good (reycled rubber, etc)

[fierce ruin]

how so?

[vapid gorge]

convert iron to copper. Useful

[fierce ruin]

ig its good cuz im in the desert

[vapid gorge]

same with iron alloy, convert copper to iron

[fierce ruin]

lots of pure iron

[thorn bane]

copper is more rare than iron

also 100/min is nice

[fierce ruin]

gotcha

[vapid gorge]

sure but you also tend ot need an ass ton more iron

compared to copper

depending on your project and recipes

[fierce ruin]

well again im in the desert

so i got more than enough iron

[fallow siren]

like in my case, i have so many in library so i do the rescan and i got some decent ones

and still have 32 in inv

[thorn bane]

are there even that many alt recipes unlockable at that state

[fierce ruin]

should i pick one of these or just leave it for later, cant rescan it

[fallow siren]

well this save is in phase 3 so 70% of the entire alts are there

getting certain alt in phase 4 will be so easy to snipe

[thorn bane]

ye but its 2 each so its like 80/100

[thorn bane]

just leave it until you use it

this way you block pure iron ingot from showing up

[fierce ruin]

and get copper alloy

[thorn bane]

yep

[fierce ruin]

wym

[fallow siren]

i had so many that the last one bugged like this

[thorn bane]

if you were to take it now then you could get pure iron ingots in your next hard drive
"wasting" 1 alt choice that could be better

[fierce ruin]

oh okay ik what u mean

the last 3 i got

[thorn bane]

i guess also pure recipes arent completely bad
i just think its not worth it to go through the hassle of getting water if you could just get more resources instead
but some like the "optimallity" of it

idk first 2 are really personal choice

[fierce ruin]

yeah i got a bunch of pure iron nodes near by so im not worried about iron

is fused wire a wise choice or no

[fierce ruin]

last on rescan?

[thorn bane]

i like it but not everyone does
having to build assemblers instead of constructers is kinda rough but it also makes 4x as much so imo its fine
but ye then you need to also bring caterium which can make the logistics hard and lead to spaghetti

[thorn bane]

ye

[fierce ruin]

ig ill be waiting awhile to pick this one

[thorn bane]

diluted packaged fuel is nice for power

[fierce ruin]

ill look into it when i get that stuff

i assume this is better than fused wire?

[thorn bane]

uh
both are decent
again the question do you want simple logistics, choose left
do you want resource efficient choose right

[thorn bane]

nah not really since it uses A LOT of caterium

[fierce ruin]

yeah and i just got copper alloy so might aswell us it

[thorn bane]

i can be fine if you have caterium around but its like 3x the amount ot caterium compared to fused

what i like to do if im not sure on a recipe choice (and discord is asleep) is to just put both in tools and see what the inputs are
its way easier to see whats going on if you compare the same output (like 60/min)
like here you see that its 8 copper + 2 caterium vs 7.5 caterium, so A LOT more caterium

[fierce ruin]

instead of 15 copper i use 15 caterium to make 3x the amount

[thorn bane]

and ye copper ore to ingot is 1->2 with alloy where caterium is 3->1 with def. cat.
so a caterium ingot is "more valuable" than a copper ingot

[thorn bane]

ye that works aswell

[crimson moat]

iron wire is the "i want to use the least consequential resources to make this" choice. It just kinda sucks as you might have to import that iron from far away, it's a lot of it

[fierce ruin]

used it to see the production difference

[thorn trail]

2nd least consequential

[thorn bane]

it might also cause you to have 10 fps
fuck iron wire

[crimson moat]

i still have 150-200 cpu fps on my build

[thorn bane]

lets make MORE constructers than default
why not

[thorn trail]

when you are using iron wire to avoid using screws you do end up with less constructors overall

[thorn bane]

or just use fused wire and make 120/min instead of 22.5/min
thats like 5x as much per building

[crimson moat]

fused wire is a lot more convenient if you have them nearby

it will just make you run out of caterium and copper on the map scale, while 60% of the iron is unused, if you're trying to produce the most stuff possible

which is a small but not completely irrelevant niche

[thorn bane]

yes and no
"most stuff" is like kinda not possible without a nasa pc
and 90% of that barely uses wire and is more capped by sam and bauxite

[crimson moat]

pastas add copper to the list

and caterium is not super far down it

as far as the performance things go, i think that's more of a popular myth, the game actually runs extraordinarily well

max nuclear to ficsonium powerplant barely made a dent, but i will see for sure when i have consumed everything

[thorn bane]

this was my planner for warp drives
its not a lot compared to sam/bauxite

[fierce ruin]

my main goal is to have a smaller footprint if that makes since

less buildings but more product

[crimson moat]

individual items warp quite a lot, as they might use a ton or very little of one particular resource. I speak from plans such as: build and power as many space elevator completions per hour as possible, and build and power as many of everything as possible (with reasonable weights on each item)

[thorn bane]

i did 40/min warp drives and got down to 60fps
and max is like 120?
but ye tbf i dont like <60fps especially if its fluctuating so id just quit if it got lower

[crimson moat]

send the save and i'l check my perf 😄

i am interested, it's part of why i am doing a gigabuild

[opaque quartz]

I tapped out at 10 bwd/min and that was with a prodigious amount of sloops

30 million sink points/min ain’t bad tho

[thorn bane]

i went for that sweet sweet 100m/min

[fierce ruin]

wait to select or select now?

[crimson moat]

both are never use for me

so i would leave them there so that they dont come up next times

[fierce ruin]

why not coke steel?

oh

[thorn bane]

kinda always wait until youre gonna use it
but idk both are decent
imo solid>coke but personal preference
i like rigour motor but it needs some manufacturer spam

[fierce ruin]

thats not coal... nvm

im sorry

[thorn bane]

ye its coke
its 100/min though so its decent

[crimson moat]

it's easier to just use coal where steel is needed, or bypass it altogether (e.g. iron pipe, encased industrial pipe)

[thorn bane]

but imo oil seems kinda wasted when coal is kinda free

[thorn bane]

wait you dont like rigor motor?
lowest rotor usage 🙃

[thorn trail]

rotors for me are cheap, crystal oscillators aren't

i don't use rigor either

[crimson moat]

oscillator ruins it

[thorn bane]

its so few though 1->6
but ye i can see it

[crimson moat]

rotors are just iron, there's more iron than i can use

[thorn bane]

rotors are copper and steel for sheets and screws

[tropic hawk]

everyone has their own use case

[crimson moat]

iron pipe iron wire 😄

[thorn bane]

yikes

[tropic hawk]

or cast screws and iron rods

[thorn trail]

or cast screws and copper sheets

[tropic hawk]

im curious now, which is more effective, iron pipe + iron wire rotors or iron rods + cast screw rotors...

[thorn trail]

depends what your criteria for effectiveness is, total output, machine count, power usage, etc

[thorn trail]

pretty sure the screw based solutions for rotors outperform wire on output, but drive the machine count way up

[thorn bane]

yall are mad for building 30+ constructors

its better by 0.7% xD

[tropic hawk]

im actually working on building an iron facility rn that produces MF, Rotors, RIPs, and normal plates and rods

[thorn trail]

your solution is somewhat biased though, as you used an alt for the copper sheets but didn't do the same for pure iron in the others

[tropic hawk]

its not gonna change the results....

[thorn trail]

also, i build a blueprint that uses 150 of the mats and then just spam it 2/4/8 times

[thorn bane]

true
but the building amount is still roughly the same
32 constructors vs 9 + 9 refineries

[tropic hawk]

well, the overall results at any rate

if you only got iron, cast screw+iron rod is the most resource efficient. if you have all resources, there are lots more practical resources

wait, i just noticed you used the default steel recipe instead of solid steel ingot...

[thorn trail]

and you had to be in proximity to 3 different materials, otherwise you gotta factor in the logistics for moving 1 or 2 of them to the others

[thorn bane]

main bus 🙃

[thorn trail]

vs the iron one you can just plop down anywhere

[tropic hawk]

wait, people actually use buses here?

[thorn trail]

some people do. I do

[thorn bane]

yep
and i get called a blasphemer everytime i mention it

[thorn trail]

you won't hear any complaints from me, i am a fan of the bus

though in the case of my bus rotors they are being made from caterium ingots and steel pipes

[tropic hawk]

its not blasphemy. its just a very unoptimal solution for most use cases. its like liquid biomass or biocoal. most people abhor it, but it does have its uses

[thorn bane]

you see i think people are just doing it wrong

[tropic hawk]

like sure, I don't use buses, but its because it doesn't fit my use case. if it fits yours, the more power to you

[tropic hawk]

well now im curious, what do you think they are doing wrong, and how do you solve it?

[thorn trail]

it might not be an issue of 'solving' anything. it might just be that the style of play is just different and/or requires a different mindset or perspective on solving things

[thorn bane]

having multiple belts of the same item on the main bus
solution: stack them vertical and use a output priority balancer like this
that way you can have 10k wire or w.e. on your main bus
where i feel like most people say that they are limited by 1 lane

and ye general leaving space for mergers etc. but building it vertical so its 2d, making it scale INSANE since the game is 3d

like having 100 belts is just 10x10
so 10 lines wide, each 10 stacked high
which really isnt a lot, but 100 belts is an insane amount

and ye a big issue is that it sucks with low tier belts
with mk1/2 its just straight up garbage
but the better your belts the better your main bus
and with mk6 belts its just kinda insane

[crimson moat]

I think i actually did straight up rods and screws (cast screws) on my megabuild

[brave ledge]

i have to build 513 fuel gens to get rid of all my turbofuel

[thorn trail]

is that the overclocked number? if not, i'd seriously consider using shards to cut that number down as much as possible

[thorn bane]

i made that many and it wasnt fun
make sure you use blueprints

[fierce ruin]

should i move to the other side of the map

up over here

[kindred carbon]

Every pair of refineries is connected to a single sloppy refinery, 2 electrode refineries produce exactly the amount a sloppy refinery needs. The numbers worked out nicely here

[kindred carbon]

No, just move the resources by train if you need them

[dapper spade]

I usually build a 75920 Km long conveyor belt 😂😂

[fallow siren]

good, lmk if you encounter problems

[kindred carbon]

Tysm for the help, will do

[vapid gorge]

By ‘main bus’ do you just mean a bunch of single item belts stacked on each other?

Cause that’s not a bus, just poorly laid out manifolds

[wind spade]

See, if I saw this, I would absolutely delete the save and go play bussless

[thorn bane]

that was actually from before 1.0
its half the size now with prio mergers 🙃

but ye i never needed more than 4x belts while making 40/min warp drives for 100,000,000/min sink points (4500/min concrete)
so with mk6 belts you dont even need this much

[wind spade]

still though, I wouldn't ever want to have that anywhere

[fierce ruin]

i was thinking i would have more space, rn im off the east coast of the dune desert

[kindred carbon]

How did you get all that concrete?

If you use the wet concrete recipe then it’s 6800 limestone I think

[wind spade]

don't post into multiple channels 🙂

[dreamy umbra]

why go main bus when you can go main train track?

[dreamy umbra]

top left corner of the map iirc,the screenshot is on top

[kindred carbon]

Oh yea there’s a bunch of it in the swamp too

I’ll make a supermassive refinery set up for copper and concrete there lol

[brisk urchin]

greeny can you help me rq in the #dedicated-servers channel

[brave ledge]

not overclocked number but still i would have to use 213 fuel gens and also the sheer amount of powershards that i have to collect would make me want to go into a hole

[brave ledge]

defo am, i am not manually placing 213 fuel gens by hand

[wind spade]

No, because I have no idea about dedi servers?

[brisk urchin]

ok sorry didnt know lol

[wind spade]

Just a hint, don't ping random people with questions, just ask in the channel

[brave ledge]

theres 1,200 powershards availible if not somerslooping a constructor so this project would take about 1/4 of the worlds powershards

[wind spade]

There's infinite number of powershards

[brave ledge]

infinite with doggos and synthetic ones but im just talking about the ones that the world gives u, not automating them or lizard doggo farming

never got to tier 9

[brave ledge]

theres lots of conc availible in that aswell as iron but not so much copper

[wind spade]

There's tons of copper

37k

[brisk urchin]

i did, but u are not a random person, i thought you had some knowledge in satisfactory yk

[fallow siren]

not everyone plays in dedicated derver

[kindred carbon]

No one plays in dedicated dervers

[wind spade]

I have 50 hours in Satisfactory and last played it in 2019

[brisk urchin]

ah, okay

[wind spade]

And yes, I am a random person in the context of my message 🙂

[dreamy umbra]

not really,power shards are mighty cheap
use production amplification to get double the powershards from your slugs

[brave ledge]

ik but i still hate collecting them

[dreamy umbra]

you have the hoverpack right

just fly around and build powerlines in front of you

[neat bolt]

Quick question, is trying to put 600 m³/min through a mk2 pipe still something to be avoided?

[fallow siren]

600/min works fine, but in general its better to avoid it and work with 400-500 instead

that way you have more room

[neat bolt]

Fair

[wind spade]

never was

[neat bolt]

friends and I are making a... slightly big fuel power plant

And guess who gets to figure out how to pipe all the fuel into them :D

In hindsight a inverted pyramid was about the worst shape we could pick

Any tips would be good tho

[kindred carbon]

Who gave you the idea?

[neat bolt]

I came up with it and no one stopped me

the math adds up

[kindred carbon]

That’s 700 fully overclocked generators

[neat bolt]

900

To save a few shards

[kindred carbon]

Did you at least set it up so that each floor would take a single pipe? Or is it a random pyramid

[neat bolt]

Just a pyramid. I wish I had that much foresight XD

[kindred carbon]

Lol

Start counting I guess, and color the machines according to the pipes they’re taking

[neat bolt]

Would it be worth it to turn it into a non inverted pyramid?

[kindred carbon]

Wouldn’t make a difference since rocket fuel is a gas

[neat bolt]

Ooooh

[kindred carbon]

Gases don’t need to worry about pressure in this game

[neat bolt]

...I forgor

[kindred carbon]

So you won’t be using pumps for the fuel

[fallow siren]

just dont mix the pipes, have their own set of gens for each pipe

[neat bolt]

Hmm, tempted to hook up the full 600 per pipe, but ever so slightly underclock either all of them, or just one.

[fallow siren]

this was my 300GW rocket plant in my first 1.0 save, 20 floors of gens

[kindred carbon]

Nah, just do even numbers that divide well

So for example, each generator should consume 10 fuel and you just use a single 500 pipe to feed 50 of them

I wouldn’t max out pipes at the scale because it’s impossible to debug or fix it once you have issues with slosh

[fallow siren]

clock rf gen to 240%. it consumes 10/min, so full pipe of 600 provides enough for 60 gens

[neat bolt]

each one uses... this

[kindred carbon]

Overclock to 240%

How many powershards do you have

[neat bolt]

I can run 72 like this, exactly

[neat bolt]

barely enough as is

[kindred carbon]

Did you use up all the shards in the world?

[neat bolt]

Not even close

[kindred carbon]

Time to go for hunting then

You can make synthetic power shards for later projects

[neat bolt]

I know ^^
But I personally don't see the benefit of going to 240 when 200 works fine. (and 900 fits exactly with the pyramid)

[fallow siren]

im recommending 240% bcs its a much nicer number to work with instead of .3333

and you dont want to mix any of these pipes

[neat bolt]

There is no issue as even with the .3333 consumtion, three generators add up to 25m³/min consumption, rounding it out

[kindred carbon]

Or just do 240% then use filler generators

[neat bolt]

filler generators?

[kindred carbon]

Yea, just place some down for aesthetics and to fill up the pyramid

[neat bolt]

That'd negate the benefit of the extra overclock entirely, no? The main advantage is saving space and resources

[kindred carbon]

It would make your life easier, if you did 240% overclock then placed down generators as filler that’s the same amount of effort as placing 900 of them at 200% overclock

200% is 8.333 fuel, 240.3% is exactly 10

Pick which number you wanna work with

[neat bolt]

I mean, at best it'd reduce the amount I need to hook up to piping slightly

[deft lichen]

What's the benefit of making the numbers work out nicely for each generator

If their sum adds up to all the fuel you're consuming

OC to 250% at that point

[neat bolt]

I'd say it makes smaller setups easier. On hugs ones like mine it adds up to nice numbers anyway

[neat bolt]

I don't want to exceed 200 because shards.

[deft lichen]

Valid, my point was just fully utilizing each shard

You only get ugly numbers if you look at the per-min values, too

[neat bolt]

as long as your counts are divisible by 3 any setup with 200% works out well!

[deft lichen]

So you're saying that every setup divisible by 6 works 😛

[neat bolt]

Basically :P

[tropic hawk]

that is true, i forgot that with p.mergers making belt compressors is a lot easier

[tropic hawk]

i mean a central lane of belts that has the relevant items for the factory in it.

[dawn quartz]

is turbofuel worth it? i only had it last time because coal and sulfur happened to be at the factory and i had a good alt recipe

[graceful tundra]

is this the meta for plastic and rubber? or am i missing something?

[graceful tundra]

eh, not really, it either costs you mountains of coal and sulfur, or is barely more efficient than just using diluted fuel

gets better later, because when you make it into rocket fuel and then ionised fuel, it gives you back the compacted coal

[graceful tundra]

oh god, i started looking into higher tier stuff

looks like pain

[spare osprey]

why is the steel backed up? belt supports 270 and i'm producing 270 steel/min

[graceful tundra]

check at the place where it is used

[spare osprey]

wdym?

it's right there on the left

[brisk urchin]

then why are you using manifolds in the first place

if the production line keeps on going instandly after the foundrys

[fierce ruin]

brand new save, first harddrive

which one

im here so wasnt sure if the iron wire would be smart

[spare osprey]

why is it not flowing on the right?

i have mark 3 belts making 270 steel/min

[fierce ruin]

@quick gorge arrow meaning the one on the right?

[fluid vector]

share number of machines producing/consuming how much

[quick gorge]

yeah, I like having inv :)

[spare osprey]

I did? 270 steel/min

[fluid vector]

idk I can't follow from what you shared

[main junco]

hey! i have two designs for an aluminum factory in the swamp (i want to use all of the bauxite). I have two designs to maximize output of aluminum but idk what is best to use. Also, how should i go about getting all of the bauxite in by train? (ill send the screenshot of the modeler)

[fierce ruin]

would u say for where im located iron wire would be better?

or would u still prefer inv

[quick gorge]

Really depends if your pockets are always full.
If you constantly have space go for the iron wire, my pockets are just always full of shite

[main junco]

also what one would be the best for future upgradability when i get the mk3 miners?

[wind spade]

Personally I wouldn't upgrade setups

Just build a new one for the remaining ore

[fierce ruin]

cast screws good choice this early in game or rescan or what

btw MAM was the first milestone i picked and i just got logistics, so nothing setup

[main junco]

cast screws is great to have

gets rid of a lot of tedious work

[fierce ruin]

over the other alt?

[main junco]

i think so, personally i dont really use fine concrete

[fierce ruin]

okay thank you

[main junco]

cast will help more in early game bc you can just split the iron between the three products instead of having to make much more rods

[dawn quartz]

i need a power plant and a oil products factory place thingy
idk which place to use for either

left is the west coast and right is the blue crater

there is a oil well at the west coast but i dont have that extractor yet

[main junco]

i made a huge plant at blue crater it works well

[kindred carbon]

Use iron wire

[kindred carbon]

Blue crater cause you’ll need the sulfur

[dawn quartz]

then what should i use the west coast for
or should ijust leave that for now

[kindred carbon]

Just leave it for a future rubber and plastic factory

[dreamy umbra]

wait for all the machines to empty out

[spare osprey]

Ye i just had to stop one machine producing for a lil bit so the belt cleaned up and now it runs smoothly :)

[dreamy umbra]

FMF and RCUs

or something,they need oil

[dawn quartz]

oh alright ill save it for that later thanks

[dreamy umbra]

each FMF needs 10 fule/min all by itself,so plan accordingly

[wind spade]

personally I don't like cast screws

but in general there's no single way of determining whether something is "good" or "bad" choice. It very much depends on your preferences (and you can get all recipes anyway). So just pick one that you like more or flip a coin

[kindred carbon]

That’s like 2.5/min crude

Definitely not something to plan around lol

[dreamy umbra]

100fmf

[kindred carbon]

Still a normal node’s worth of oil lol

[dreamy umbra]

electrode scrap<<<

[wind spade]

as with anything - if you don't have a need for something, don't extract/make it yet

[dreamy umbra]

maybe in low quantities for building,but nothing major

like RCUs from your computers and resonator manufacturies

[wind spade]

if you're building it for personal usage, then you have a need for it and my advice doesn't apply

what I'm talking about is the classic "I have X resources, what should I do with them" question - answer is always "nothing, wait until you need them"

[dreamy umbra]

oh

hmm

yeah i still have no use for 10 of a lot of stuff/min

and 10 computers/min

[old hearth]

if you want a basic diluted fuel power plant use the spire coast. If you want a turbo fuel or rocket fuel plant use the blue crator. I would never use the gold coast(west coast) for either and always use it for rubber and plastic

[kindred carbon]

I’m doing 5 computer, 2 sc, 2 turbo motors, 5 FMF

[old hearth]

Am I an overachiever i make like 62 computers per minute and 68 supercomputers per minute in my world

[kindred carbon]

68 super computers would be 272/min computer

[old hearth]

i use the battery alt

and i make more cpomputers on site

i think

i made this 300 hours ago

[kindred carbon]

200/min computers is a lot

[old hearth]

I save all my notes in a book

good luck reading it though

[kindred carbon]

Lmao

Looks like my math class notes

[old hearth]

fun fact i have never once used the reg computer recipe

[kindred carbon]

I’m using the caterium recipe

[old hearth]

and i have 3 different places i build computers

[kindred carbon]

Pretty much all my electronics use the caterium recipes, which is why I ended up needing 8k/min quickwire

[old hearth]

i use it for my space elevator compuuters ( for acu's) and its actually a kind acool factory that is interwoven with my basic aluminum factory

[old hearth]

i honestly use very little caterium, except for ficsite trifgons for space elevator parts were i use 5180 caterrium per minute

[kindred carbon]

Yea caterium is definitely a pain when it comes to the sheer amount of it

But it does simplify things a lot

[old hearth]

those towers refine all of the caterium i neded for this final project

normally they are gold but its night

[jade geode]

I've got so many hard drives now, when do I get the alternate HOR recipe :(

[old hearth]

how many hard drives have you collected so far

[jade geode]

13 unused, I think I've used 4-5

Also, should I be using these? Or can recipes not repeat

[old hearth]

i hate to break it to you but therea are about i think 60 recipes you can unlock at that point and 118 total crash sites

[old hearth]

save them they wont show up bakc in the pool till you redeem them

[jade geode]

I rescanned them all so it feels to me like I've used 30+

But wow, thats alot of hard drives...

[old hearth]

rescanning doesnt do as much as you would think to the pool

[jade geode]

If I keep using hard drives now, won't I lock myself out of late game recipes..?

I haven't even unlocked the computer yet, I'm focused on getting Alt HOR first

[old hearth]

i would either look at the satisfactory calculator map for all the hard drives or unlock the object scanner for hard drivers

[old hearth]

no there are about 7 extra hard drives and you can buy some for 1000 tickets from the shop

100*

[jade geode]

Okay, thank you :)

[old hearth]

there is however a bug where if you only have 1 alt left in the pool it wont let you scan new hard drives until you reload the game

otherwise you can't be locked out of any alts

[jade geode]

This is greatly re-assuring. I appreciate the information

[old hearth]

ofc

[old hearth]

what altsa did u take

and what tier are you

[jade geode]

Dilute Packaged Fuel
Fused Quickwire
Cast Screw
Wet concrete

[jade geode]

I've just unlocked plastic/rubber/fuel generator

[old hearth]

i would keep all alts you get (dont reroll yet) except for HOR, solid steel ingots, recycled rubber and recycled plastic.

[jade geode]

Thank you, I'll make sure to look out for these

[old hearth]

if you have diluted packaged fuel, HOR(shorrt for heavy oil residue if that wasnt obvious) and the two recycled recipes you can make plastic or rubber using 3 oil to make 9 product as opposed to the regular recipe which is 3 to 2

[jade geode]

Wow, I didn't think about this side. I was also excited for diluted package + HOR to make a more effective power farm with fuel gens

[old hearth]

HOR is the best alt in the game IMO

[jade geode]

These are very resource efficient indeed

[old hearth]

and solid stell it makes alll steel production 60% more power effiecent and and makes 1.5 x steel for no rela cost

no cost at all actually

[jade geode]

WOAH, thats amazing

[old hearth]

it uses 40 iron ingots and 40 iron ore as opposed to 45 iron ore and 45 coal to make 60 steel ingots as opposed to 45 steel ingots

[jade geode]

That's insane?! Truly overpowered. are there many game changers like these late game or past my tier? Or is this the peak of alt recipes.

[old hearth]

those are considered the best but there is one more in tier 7 or 8 that is the most effiecient fuel sourece in the game

almost every alt is good in at least one context however

I am nearly done with phase 5 of the game and i have used nearly every alt at some point

[jade geode]

That's incredible. Well thank you for the heads up and the invaluable information you've shared. You've helped me alot when it comes to understand the significance of hard drives, and which recipes to aim for :)

[old hearth]

when i finish the game im going to make atierlist of all recipes

[frosty owl]

You may want to consider adding onto an existing one. There's quite a few, it's a very debated topic ^^

[old hearth]

I know

[old hearth]

If it was because of personal preference over viability leached copper ingots would be below biocoal and charcoal

[frosty owl]

I think I align with that preference ^^

[old hearth]

MFW the alt that uses sulfur is less effiency copper wise then the one that doesnt

I was acting like a greentext poster

[frosty owl]

Yeah, sorry, my head was a bit too deep into the "game acronyms" bucket 😅

[old hearth]

in other unrealted new im going to have to do they cursed thing where i have a fulled overclocked and slooped particle accelerator bc I dont have enough sam ore in the world to make the amount of dark matter crystals i need

im not excited

[fluid vector]

be careful this is the verboten topic!!!!

any mention of recipes being "good" is very triggering for people

I have gotten chastised every time I post about this lmao

[old hearth]

Almost every alt recipe is good they are all situational

[fluid vector]

thats the only acceptable response yes very good

[old hearth]

Some are better than others

[fluid vector]

me personally I think there is objectively better recipes vs others

but its not allowed to be said

[old hearth]

That all has to do with the amount of niches they are useful for

Like solid steel or HOR can be used very effectively in almost every steel and oil production line respectively

[fluid vector]

ill send the forbidden link that I personally find useful when picking recipes in a vacuum, I just choose any that are S and A tier and I generally agree with it.

diclaimer for anyone reading, I acknowledge you may have a different opinion. of course any ranking is subjective (wink wink) https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fekus9/alternate_recipe_ranking_10_optimizing_for/

[old hearth]

I saw pure copper in f tier

Disregarded

[fluid vector]

LOL

its because its like a blended ranking of number of building, resources, power, etc

pure copper is very good on less resource consumption but higher on power and I think num buildings

so yeah I guess it depends a bit on what you prioritize

[old hearth]

Yeah fs it uses way too many buildings

That's what blueprints are for

[bitter grail]

Power and number of buildings shouldn’t be a major factor in rankings if you were to even rank

[fluid vector]

true

[old hearth]

They are even though some recipes are better the logistics is much more annoying

[fluid vector]

out of F tier the only one that has less resource consumption is the pure copper so that makes sense

[bitter grail]

Like instant scrap is F tier?

[old hearth]

Ikr

Likee

[fluid vector]

oh I see resource vs resource*

[old hearth]

Cloudy diamonds f tier?

[bitter grail]

But like power isn’t a big deal tbh once you make a RF or Uranium gen place. How does a person even rank them in your opinion?

[wind spade]

yeah, get the alts you want. unless looking for a specific one

[old hearth]

Power not so much but in terms of time to place belts, I think it's decently important

[fluid vector]

well we need a new ranking tier list!!!!

[wind spade]

you won't be first or last, and your tierlist most likely won't agree with any other

[old hearth]

I know

[wind spade]

at which point it's kinda pointless to even make one imo

[old hearth]

Cause it's fun?

And encourages engaging conversations

[wind spade]

it's not fun seeing people blindly follow these tier lists and doing super weird choices that do not make sense for them

[bitter grail]

I don’t understand how any recipes can be ranked at all tbh. What recipe someone uses is all so specific to the situation, what resources you have in the spot, and just plain preference for what you want to make/deal with

[old hearth]

That's their fault not mine

[old hearth]

For me it's what recipes have more use cases

[wind spade]

which is why I think all tier lists should be replaced with "pick/use what you like"

[fluid vector]

I think there's like meta-strategies that you learn over time, that new people wouldn't know

like your approach to screws

changes a lot downstream depending on what you like

[wind spade]

use cases depend on goals of a given user, impossible to quantify

[old hearth]

I mean yeah but it's about my opinion of what works best

[old hearth]

My man if you don't like me making a tier list, don't read it? Like what's your point

[bitter grail]

I can kinda see that. But wouldn’t location factor into use cases? Would your tier list have to specify what regions you focused in? Honestly curious btw

[old hearth]

An overall analysis as best I can

[wind spade]

as a person who tries to help people here a lot, I can say that tier lists hurt more than help

especially in a game which is played in so many different styles

[amber umbra]

There definitely are characteristics for recipes that can be quantified and therefore ranked. Multiple recipes in a production chain can also be characterized and therefore ranked. The total permutations available for a given item does make it a lot of work to fully explore those permutations. But it’s not an unreasonable thing imo.

Some people doing it wrong doesn’t mean, no one explore it at all.

[wind spade]

it's very unreasonable. Last time I've checked it, there's like several thousands of different ways of getting to just screws

[amber umbra]

Yes

[fluid vector]

greeny would know tbh

[wind spade]

it's practically impossible to cover them all in an analysis

[fluid vector]

but isn't it still possible to just give very basic advice like 3 different paths, for the mid-game

a lot of new people just want a small amount of guidance for the midgame

like these three recipes are a good combo etc

[bitter grail]

How would you rank multiple recipes in a production chain?

[wind spade]

it is, but that kinda "forces" anyone who reads that into picking one of the three paths, instead of exploring all the relevant possibilities for them

[fluid vector]

I see yeah

[old hearth]

i never said that there is only one way to play its my subjective experience. Every alt has uses. Even biocoal. My tier list is going to encapsulate what ones are easieast and best to use. I acknolegde there is no objective correct tier list

[amber umbra]

@bitter grail Multiple recipes meaning like compare rocket fuel recipes from raw. You just combine it all and compare on a metric.

[fluid vector]

but that might be optimistic about how unique people's playstyles are. it can have caveats

we need a ranking system lmao updoot downdoot on which alts or alt combos

[wind spade]

this is closest to what I'd like to see - just a description of what are some interesting things about a given recipe and it's combinations, without really stating any "better or worse" claims. It's something we were kinda thinking about putting on wiki, but is currently on hold due to limited time

[old hearth]

good idea ngl but the issue i see is alack of a way to justify which ones are good or bad

[thorn bane]

chose recipe first then choose spot
also not everyone builds that way, some just build in 1 spot

[wind spade]

there's a few things similar to that already, but the problem is that it turns into popularity contest, which kinda goes back to "new person will just use the most popular thing without considering other options"

[fluid vector]

yeah true. I think the idea of "here are some examples of how much better this combo of recipes is" is interesting because it doesn't force anyone, but shows whats possible

[wind spade]

I don't like "how much better", I'd stick to "how different" 😉

[fluid vector]

lol fair

[bitter grail]

I like this. Like some combos of recipes can cut out needing entire types of resources and it makes things very interesting, but it can be hard to figure it out without knowing the options available via wiki or something

[fluid vector]

then we patent certain combos and license them out and you make royalties when people use your blueprints

[thorn bane]

that doesnt mean that some are not better than others
it just means that its a hard question
if you look at the people beating the game and the people quitting then you can absolutely see a pattern of using the same recipes

[bitter grail]

Like I made my computer factory with everything on site without needing plastic or caterium. While it may not have been the best idea (who knows tbh) it did cut out needing to transport anything via train at that time

So like fun combos are out there

[wind spade]

I mean obviously you're free to make anything, but in the same way I'm free to comment on what you made 😉 if it's a table with recipes ranked and it's prefaced with "these are my opinions and I'm posting it for fun", it's kinda fine, but that's not what most tier lists do. For example the often-shared link from reddit has a big table which says things like "resources -34%", which is just totally misleading. -34% from what? How can one recipe change that? How is it calculated? (yes they explain it in the post, but the metric is practically pointless, as the number can change from +100% to -100% (or more) based on other recipe choices and production target). But people still cling onto the numbers and I still see from time to time "recipe A saves 40% of resources", which is complete bullshit (because it practically does that in a single comparison taken in vacuum without context)

[old hearth]

true but for the ones that are not obvious upgrades such as solid steel they are often at a relatively equal playing field

[fluid vector]

first things first I'm patenting the diluted fuel into rocket fuel system

Scythia's Diluted Rocket Fuel GigaPower

I know what you're thinking I didn't come up with it

[thorn bane]

wait you dont think solid steel is just straight up better than default?

[wind spade]

as with any recipe, there's pros and cons, in this case it's getting extra resources at the cost of increased complexity

[old hearth]

very very fair, this is not a topic that can be quantized it needs qualatative measures

[wind spade]

because it isn't

[thorn bane]

except 99% of players value saving coal over building extra smelters

[old hearth]

no im saying solid steel is a complete upgrade which is odd for recipes, most are equal

ish

[wind spade]

which is statistics/popularity, not really something you can base "better/worse" on

[thorn bane]

well you can

[fluid vector]

ABORT TOPIC QUICK

[wind spade]

you can, but then it's "most people use X" or "most people like X", not "X is better"

[thorn bane]

nono im not saying more people use it
im saying almost everyone thinks solid steel is better

[old hearth]

logistics and ease of logistics is not quanitative, but you can most definiently say that for example, purecopper ingots are generrally much more annoying logistically to set up thatn something like copper alloy

[amber umbra]

Saying “everyone thinks this is better” isn’t useful as an actual metric. Feel free to list the metric behind it.

[wind spade]

see, I would say it's the other way around 😛

[spare osprey]

Does someone have any advice on how i can divide water for 24 coal generators evenly when pipes only take 300m^3/min

[thorn bane]

and the reason its better is that building extra smelters is easier than getting more coal

[old hearth]

i think i mispoke regular copper ingots not copper alloy

[wind spade]

unless a person is working with e.g. limited space or they have coal nearby

[fluid vector]

less resources and power needed for this one

[thorn bane]

but both of these limitations are just bad ways of playing the game imo

[spare osprey]

What is this?

[wind spade]

there's no "bad" way to play the game

[fluid vector]

showing 3 different setups for 3 water extractors to 8 coal generators

so make 3 sets of these for 24 coal generators

[thorn bane]

how can you be limited on space if the game is 3d
and wasting coal for some space saving just causes you to run out of resources in that area later on

[spare osprey]

that's not possible since i got 12x2 setup of them

[old hearth]

Completely agree, unless its something silly like intentionally putting rocket fuel in a pure copper ingot recipe and expecting it to work

[thorn bane]

there absolutely is if you want to progress
if you just want to have fun sure
but we are not ranking recipes on how much fun they are
we are ranking them on how good they are

[old hearth]

terain, height, aesthetics

[old hearth]

that is completely subjedctive

[fluid vector]

then you can do 6 water extractors to 12 coal generators if you want to keep it simple, via 3 pipes that you split to 4 coal generators each

[bitter grail]

Grouping the coal gens in groups of 8 with their own pipes is the best I found. Then 3 water pumps, but not at the end of the pipe, more sort of spread out along the pipe so it inputs at multiple spots. The picture Scythia posted is examples of this

[wind spade]

• want to put thing in a blueprint
• want to fit thing in a given space
• want to make it look nice, which includes having these dimensions

I could go on, but as with anything, it comes down to personal preference

[spare osprey]

So i have to evenly divide the water coming inbecause of the limit of water?

[thorn bane]

how you play is subjective
how we want to rank reicpes isnt
i dont want to rank biocoal higher becuse some guy thinks its fun to do a biomass only challenge

[fluid vector]

for a group of 8, yes, using the mk1 pipes

[old hearth]

how to rank recipes is quite literally subjective. i would rank biocoal slightly higher bc i am ranking based on amount of niches, you are not

[spare osprey]

right but i'm using 12x2 atm

and that requires 520 water for 12

[old hearth]

nothing wrong with that but it is still subjective there is no objective tierlist

[spare osprey]

so 4.3 water extractors

[old hearth]

build 5 and split the middle one in two

[spare osprey]

So people go groups of 8 because each pumps does 120 so its becomes an even 360?

[wind spade]

by this definition you're practically saying "recipes good for speedrunners"

most people play to have fun, not to advance as soon as possible (and yes I know those are not mutualy exclusive, but many people want to play at their own pace, not at the pace you can play if you pick optimal recipes for that)

and "rank how good they are" depends on how you define "good", which isn't possible to define in a way where all people would agree with it

[thorn bane]

there is though its just hard to make it
if 90% of players say solid steel is good for them
and 10% of players say biocoal is good for them
can you not say solid steel is better than biocoal?

[bitter grail]

I think doing 5 extractors along the line of the 12 gens (like spread out) may work

[old hearth]

may i ask which is the best circuit board alt, for example

[thorn trail]

no, they go 8 because of the coal supply is usually 120/min to start with and that goes perfectly to 8 generators

[old hearth]

is there an objective best one?

[wind spade]

no, because those recipes are in no way "better" than the other, as they do not really replace the other in any relevant production line

[thorn bane]

absolutely disagree
EVERYONE that asks these question is asking whats the best to progress
no one is gonna ask whats the best recipe if i want to just stay in tier 1

[spare osprey]

but 3 water extractors fill exactly 8 gen

[fluid vector]

yes exactly

[amber umbra]

Popularity is a metric. It’s not an objective metric. Popularity isn’t a good basis for rankings, characterizing, imo.

[fluid vector]

we can have multiple rankings

[spare osprey]

okii i see what u mean now, i'll just rebuild it with blueprints

[thorn trail]

yes, but 3 water extractors don't fit one 300/min pipe

[old hearth]

if you build it in a loop it works

[fluid vector]

popularity is one, greenys which is just all ranked equally, etc

[wind spade]

people are either asking "what recipe is best for producing X" or "which recipe out of these two should I pick"

the first question depends on other recipes they have/are willing to get and their preferences about production
the second question depends on whether they want to use any of the two in nearby future

[thorn bane]

its better than nothing????
like whats you awnser to "should i reroll this"?
i dont know do what ever?
how is that better than saying more people use recipe A than use recipe B so its probably better to pick recipe A

[thorn trail]

i know it works, i was just answering the question of why people do it

[spare osprey]

scroll up and it does

[old hearth]

mb mb

[old hearth]

it doesn't but you can outsmart the game to let it kinda work

[thorn trail]

no, you never have more than 300/min in a single segment of pipe at the same time. you are splitting it up by manifolding it.

[old hearth]

but rcipe b still has plenty of uses

[thorn bane]

they are pretty equal
im not saying that every recipe is like that
im saying that some are 100% more used and better than others

[fluid vector]

that would be funny. Greeny you should make a part of satisfactory tools, a button that says ULTIMATE RECIPE TIER RANKING TIER LIST:

and it resolves to a page that says:

"They're all useful sometimes depending on how you want to play 🥰 have fun!"

[wind spade]

eh, I definitely wouldn't rank all recipes equally. But that's my ranking, not any objective or relevant ranking for anyone else, so I don't see the need to call something "good" or "bad" (and when I do, I specifically state that it's just my opinion, why is it my opinion and that it's completely valid to have different opinion")

[old hearth]

my point.

[thorn bane]

way less though
like are you ever gonna use shit like heavy turbo fuel?
no
even though there is a 1 in 10000 chance that its good
its still better to pick stuff like solid steel

[thorn trail]

some of us are crazy and plan for the late part of phase 2 by going 4:3 coal gen to water extractor so we can overclock them after we mk3 belts.

[old hearth]

i use turbo heavy fuel actually. And the regular steel recipe in some places

bc it was most logistically convient

[thorn bane]

wait how can you not say they are all equal but say some arent better than others
the first implies the second

[wind spade]

because at that point you're playing the game according to how other people vote, instead of playing the game how would you play it if you had no external information at all and would experiment on your own and find what is fun for you (which is what the game imo is about)

[old hearth]

they all are good in the sense they all have use cases