math-and-meta

[jovial creek]

ive been spending the last 2 hours expanding mine

[hot bridge]

I would say yes but if you farm enough leafs you can stay on biomass for a while. Coal is much better though

[gloomy shoal]

I tend to speedrun a constant power source mostly because bio burners are so ass to try and set up anything at a useful scale, but if you're playing for the first time then don't worry too much about it

The fact that you don't need to manually refill bio burners anymore makes it infinitely less miserable to deal with

[quaint vale]

thx guys

[hot bridge]

no problem

[quaint vale]

i was just coming from Factorio and found the above aspects jarring

[jovial creek]

switching from biomass to coal is amazxing no more worrying about gathering wood or leaves

[quaint vale]

i do love never having to stress about aliens

[hot bridge]

true, I instantly built 8 coal generators, so worth it

[jovial creek]

lmao

no kidding i did the exact same look

building another 18 now just laying pipes and its done

[hot bridge]

much better than mine though... wait a minute, I'll show

[jovial creek]

exactly 8 as well

[quaint vale]

alr ig it's time to work on my 180 iron per minute main factory

[hot bridge]

that's 2 normal coal souces with the miner mk.1

[jovial creek]

I just used a 200% normal but yeah

[hot bridge]

Coal and Steel production for me

[jovial creek]

i see we chose the same spot too

[hot bridge]

its the best for rocky desert

Just wanna say I'm not proud of my conveyor belts clipping through the pipes

[jovial creek]

my ocd could never

its annoying because even for things i know im setting up temporarily i make sure its all in order which turns things into time eating tasks

[hot bridge]

I completely understand but I alredy marked this spot as my "I'll never go there again" spot so I didn't care at all

[jovial creek]

lmao ikwym

this is the new expanded setup which should power me for a couple more fasctories

[hot bridge]

wow

If you like organized stuff, you'll hate that:

My rotor fabric

[jovial creek]

jesus christ

ill show mine in a bit

[hot bridge]

Produces rotors, iron bars and ingots, brings iron to my steel production (that I out at the coal beach for some reason) and on the side I also have my copper brought to my base

[flint crystal]

Use foundations, not using those will turn any factory into a clusterfuck due to height differences. You can still mess up with foundations, but at least things become easier

[jovial creek]

agreed makes spotting errors much easier too

[hot bridge]

I know but I'm lazy and don't want to rebuild it all over again. will do it for my next projects thogh

btw what is your favourite ADA voice line you've heard so far?

[jovial creek]

micro break and then she ionstantly says breaks over or smth lol

simple but caught me off guard

[hot bridge]

My favourite on is "Try submerging your arm. If it doesn't desolve, it's probably water'

[jovial creek]

lol

[hot bridge]

I was like: "IIf I am supposed to save humanity you should show more respect"

[flint crystal]

#screenshots message wonder how long it takes until I hit the item limit critical error

Going to try to avoid trains because fuck making a railway system, i'm just going to belt everything

[jovial creek]

@flint crystal if i have a pump at the water extractors will it account for this little increase in height

or will i have to add a pump there

[flint crystal]

Add a pump where?

[jovial creek]

is a pump throught the entire pipeline or does it have a distance max?

[flint crystal]

Entire pipeline

[jovial creek]

oh ok so that increase is nothing to worry about as long as its not above 20 metres total elavation from thew water extractor

or not water extractor but i mean the location of the pump

sorry for these basic questions im new to satisfactory so im yet to understand all its systems

[flint crystal]

One of the things I have learned from messing around with water and pipes for hours and hours is to make a water tower. So where you extract water, go up with pumps (I'd go above your coal power machines), then go back down and then just do neat pipework without worrying about water flow

[jovial creek]

thats a good idea actually

is this good for now?

3 pipes each linked to 6 of their own coal plants

1 water pump on each pipe

[flint crystal]

I am extracting water from up this mountain on my screenshot (#screenshots message), I can now pipe the water through the entire world and go up and down with it 350 times as I like as long as I never go above the height of that mountain and whatever it's pumping up to

[flint crystal]

No, for coal power stick to the 3/8 rule. 3 extractors, 8 coal power plants

[jovial creek]

wait what wdymn i do have 3 extractors

[flint crystal]

Set it up like this (source + explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/15p3f3a/coal_generator_setup/)

[jovial creek]

ohh i did 3 per 6 becasue i only have 270 coal

welll i could get more but mk3 belts so 270 max

off of one node at least and thats what im working with

270 coal allows for 18 coal plants which 3 extractors (per 6 plants) at 2 being 100% and 1 being 25% which adds up to 270 water per pipe which divided by 6 is 45 which meansd each plant has its water

although i did have oine query @flint crystal

if i only need 270 per pipe could i jkust run the 3rd water at 50% to make the toatal per pipe 300 since excess wont matter

[hollow basin]

120 coal 8 generators and 3 pumps is the perfect set up

[flint crystal]

I would not build 18, but 16 instead

[jovial creek]

what why

[flint crystal]

Because then you can stick to the above picture

Build 2x 8 coal generators both fed by 3 water extractors

[jovial creek]

but then im losing capacity at my current mac belt throughput

since im using one node

[wind spade]

doesn't really matter

map is full of resources

[jovial creek]

i agree that setup is good but mine is based of 270 coal from one node with mk3 belts

[flint crystal]

2 extra generators is not worth the potentional headache, you can always upgrade and add another power plant when you get better belts

[jovial creek]

no i invite a dispute like this i want to learn if i do something wrong

[flint crystal]

You can always underclock the miner (for now)

[wind spade]

generally you want smaller modules, so 3:8 is a nice module to repeat. not a problem to add extra gens separate

[jovial creek]

what do you mean headache its worked out perfectly. im not asking to argue im asking because i want to know why what i did is bad

[wind spade]

does it do what you want? if yes, then it's not bad

[jovial creek]

in my original 8 setup it wass in the 3:8 (it was 2:8 but both OC to make it 3 technically)

[flint crystal]

Oh well if it's running then leave it as is ofc. I thought it wasn't hence why I linked that picture

[jovial creek]

but the entire reason i deviated from that ratio was just to match the previous conditions

[jovial creek]

ill see if its running in 2 minutes but i dont see why it wouldnt

each pipe has a leeway of 30water/m and the manifold is exactly enough coal

30 minutes running and it will be fully operational

[hollow basin]

3 water pumps is 360 water. Coal gens take 45 so 8 generators. Which is why people do 3 to 8

[jovial creek]

but can i just confirm something with you guys. each of the 3 pipes has 270 going through them to maintain the plants. if i increase it to 300 (max flow through mk1 pipes) would it not do anything bad

i would increase it to 300 by just changing the 3rd extractor for each of the pipes from 25% to 50% or 30water/m to 60water/m

the only reason im thinking of doing so is because i can tbh

[hollow basin]

Sorry you have lost me lol. 3 extractors and 8 gens just works no clocking needed.

[jovial creek]

ik the first setup or 8 gens u see are in that ratio ( 2 extractors but oc to make 3 dont ask why but thats what ive done)

[crimson moat]

yeah, you can't manifold at full flow rate due to backflow

[jovial creek]

the second setup or what im talking about rn has 18 gens each split into 6 gens per pipe. 3 pipes each needing to supply 270 total water to the 6 gens. im asking if i can change the flow to 300 and not cause any dmaage

[jovial creek]

wdym? ive done that with everything what backflow

[hollow basin]

It will be fine full let the machines fill before turning them on

[crimson moat]

fluids flow unidirectionally, counting multiple times against the flow limit. It happens unavoidably with junctions that split fluids unevenly (like 45/255, instead of 150/150)

[jovial creek]

so essentially just keep it at the 270 which is exactly what i need

[crimson moat]

yeah, that is pushing it

[jovial creek]

wait can you explain this more. so with pipes there is a backflow what exactly do you mean

[crimson moat]

I mean, if you only want to draw 270, it's fine. But don't try to draw 100% flow rate of the pipe (300) through a manifold

[jovial creek]

yeahj i have no choice buyt to do 270

[crimson moat]

fluid flows out of junction towards generator, can't go anywhere, so it flows back through the junction again to go into another pipe

[jovial creek]

okay i think i understand

ty

but then

if instead i let the pipe system fill and then run at 300 would it be fine as ragin suggested

[crimson moat]

no

[nova zenith]

how would him running at 270 be pushing it if thats what he needs?

if he used less wouldnt it not run at full power?

[jovial creek]

no i need 270 per pipe to satisfice the 18 gens

[crimson moat]

90% of pipe capacity is about the best that you can do with manifolds, due to backflow. If they were trying to draw 300 and split it through a manifold feed pipe, it would stall some machines.

but 90% of pipe capacity is just about where it starts to work

[jovial creek]

okay so i unintentionally hit the max rate i could have with a pipe manifold

[crimson moat]

pretty much yeah

[jovial creek]

lucky me i guess

[unique cypress]

that's straight up wrong

i've gotten 100% capacity manifolds working just fine

without trying sometimes even

[jovial creek]

wait so i could run my system at 300 then???

even if its only drawing 270

[crimson moat]

You're free to post proof, we haven't seen any yet and have failed at all attempts to make it work.

[nova zenith]

thats what i was thinking cuz my coal is at 100% full at runs fine

[crimson moat]

You probably input the 300 via more than one pipe

[nova zenith]

its using 3 extractors to 8 coal

i just let the water fill up before feeding the coal

[crimson moat]

yeah so you aren't pushing 300 through any pipe, especially not the one at the start of the manifold. That's where it doesn't work.

the 45 going out the top (and then back through the junction) interrupts the flow of the other 255 going rightwards.

[jovial creek]

ty i understand things much better visually that makesa more sense to me now

[crimson moat]

nps

you need around a 10% overcapacity in the pipe flow rate (so a 300 pipe can do about ~270 flow, and a 600 pipe can do about ~540 flow) in this scenario.

[nova zenith]

oh thats mb i assumed you meant a pipe full of water

[crimson moat]

There are others like it, so it's generally best to just assume that the achievable pipe flow rate is 10-20% lower than the labeled value unless you know how to navigate through them

[nova zenith]

not the pipe speed

[crimson moat]

ye just the flow rate limit

it's locally exceeded in that diagram

even though only 300 water goes into the left side of the junction, it can't fully come out the other ends.

If it's ~270, there's enough headroom for the flow to be interrupted sometimes by fluid flowing from top to right, so it can.

[jovial creek]

beautiful all done

[thorn trail]

so this oddly constructed manifold specifically to test if water was getting lost from the system shouldn't work?

[jovial creek]

@crimson moat where would you recommend i put the water pumps?

at the sudden inclinde mid way through the extractors and coal gens? since the slight increase should be covered by the water extractors

[crimson moat]

Where they are needed.

I usually do/reccomend something like this #math-and-meta message

as is it extremely simple and unbreakable

[crimson moat]

how much water are these supposed to consume?

It's a weird system because you're feeding 2 different things on the same pipe.

[thorn trail]

6 wet concrete refineries each pulling 100/min

it's specifically weird to test it out

[crimson moat]

Ok. Connect the pipe to the one on the far right or far left, and it will break

[nova zenith]

you can use walls to measure height

[thorn trail]

why isn't it breaking on the first one

[jovial creek]

im new to this so just to quickly understand something if i put the water pump right at the extractor. will that 20metres of incline be throughout the entire pipe system ?

[unique cypress]

I have crashed 4 fucking times trying to build a test coal plant

[nova zenith]

and i think the extractors give you some head lift

[crimson moat]

Yeah

[thorn trail]

the first one is feeding 100 to the first refinery and 500 to the remaining 5

[unique cypress]

fucking 1.1

[crimson moat]

because you are feeding into a 3 way split rather than a 2 way

it's specifically 2 way split which is broken i think (and you've made a good point to bring that up)

[jovial creek]

what if i need 40 metres of incline can i stack 2 water pumps ast the beginning? and it will give me 40 metres of incline?

[crimson moat]

No, pumps only set headlift going forwards.

they're not additive. They just take whatever the headlift was, delete it, and replace that value with 0 or 20 or 50

[jovial creek]

so if i needed 40 i would have to put one at start and one at 20 metres above the next ( relative to the pipe system)?

[thorn trail]

i'm feeding a single junction with the whole 600 at the start to split it 100/500

[crimson moat]

Yeah

[thorn trail]

so according to your diagram it should be failing right there

[crimson moat]

It fails when junction splits 2-way which is how people typically build. Perhaps not 3.

e.g. green works, red doesn't

[thorn trail]

look at the yellow pipe

that is the first split that is doing 100/500

[crimson moat]

Oh

Can you send me the save file to take a look at it?

I think this is actually a combination of factors. What i notice so far:

A: There is an unusual mixture of mk.1 and mk.2 pipes

B: The water consumption from the first pipe is quite high (as much as 1/3'rd of the pipe if that's a mk.1, yeah?)

C: There are extra pipes / pipe length leading up to it rather than the most compact manifold designs, and they may have an impact

I'm sure that it's worse with all pipes of the same throughput, and i'm sure that it's worse with the thing off the first junction consuming less of the total flow %. For example if you take 7.5 turbofuel off of a 600 pipe, it breaks horribly. Taking 100 out of a 300 pipe will break it a lot less. That part is kinda known, but there's a long list of quirks where stuff kinda breaks less while still not operating as most people expect - for the most part we advise for people to avoid the parts of the system which don't work in an intuitive way and need a list of rules, rather than to mitigate them. For example i wouldn't usually advise for a system which works with mk.1 and mk.2 pipes in certain positions, but only in that condition.

To note on that front, a coal plant is taking 45/300 at a stage where you have only 300 pipes, and that is well known to break with a standard manifold.

If you're interested in experimenting more, you can try something like this with only mk.1 pipes

and try to make 255 water of wet concrete out of the right pipe (you won't be able to, if i understand correctly)

[thorn trail]

ok, sent you the save file about 30 minutes into the test, that's the earliest one I have except for the one before connecting everything to start it up

the thing that is odd is that 1 or 2 of the water extractors empty themselves out completely while the others stay full, then they swap

[crimson moat]

that's normal i think with more extractors than can fit water into the pipe

[thorn trail]

they should drain equally, not individually

[crimson moat]

Stuff is a little wonky with the logic to start up and shut down machines 😄

We usually avoid that too, although it usually works even though it can behave in unexpected ways

[thorn trail]

i let the test run for a few hours while doing stuff in other windows just to see what would happen, and somehow the extractors keep doing their ping-ponging of fill/empty cycles the whole time

[crimson moat]

I think the simplest manifold setup could probably actually be revised to

just connect the fluid supply partway down the feed pipe so that at least 15% of the flow goes one way, and 85% the others

which is simpler than the regular setup that i do/advise

I was thinking of testing just connecting it 1 junction down from the end, but that would probably break with turbofuel which consumes only 7.5 of a 600 pipe. It'd send at least 585 into another junction and break there.

[thorn trail]

also note that AGS was on so I could fly and the save was in creative mod as it was a new game specifically made just to test out a theory

i even dumped my mods to make sure they weren't messing with anything

which is a serious sacrifice

[crimson moat]

good practice 😄

[jovial creek]

sigh of relief

last couple will take a while to satiate but no issues so far pipe flow wise

[unique cypress]

@crimson moat There you go. A manifolded coal plant running off a single 300/min pipe

[jovial creek]

wait i was just thinking and realised why i had a 2:8 ratio instead of 3:8. I overclocked both to make it produce the same as 3 because i was confused as to how i would split up the 3rd into the 2 pipe sustems to have 180 flowing in each. would it just be like this? with the green being split up be a pipe junction.

red being 120 and yellow 180 green 60

[tepid basin]

fluid loop. 1200 is max, not 600 😛 (and 600 is max for mk1 pipes with this loop)

[unique cypress]

because you're using 2 pipes

[crimson moat]

you can technically do a lot more

[unique cypress]

like thank you, captain obvious

if you use more pipes, you get more throughput

who would've thunk

[tepid basin]

yes but the wole machine line is the same line, so if you have a line that is more then max, you dont need seperate lines, just loop it at the other side

so a row of machines can use 1200 fluid, and be all on that same pipeline, (that is looped at both sides)

(and yes, that is usefull for when in the mk1 stage, when needing to run 16 coal generators, and want 2 rows of 8, and have 1 water pipeline in the middle)

[unique cypress]

or you could connect another pipe every x junctions all the way to infinity?

Wooo infinite capacity pipe!11!!

[tepid basin]

its about the imput line infont of the machines, if you have a row that uses more then max, you dont need multiple fluid lines, you just need to loop it at the other side, and you can keep the 1 imput line in front of the machines

[crimson moat]

You can indefinitely extend with new input pipes, nothing special about the end port

it's just.. more complex

[tulip portal]

im looking to use drones to transport bauxite on the west coast to the water, any idea how many/how muc fuel id need to make this work? here is my plan before factoring in fuel https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=X1bI7BECR4rmV8jEg6ji

[tepid basin]

i gues its just me that thinks of less visable pipes is better, so 1 line showing is better then multiple

[opaque quartz]

If you set multiple items to “maximum” in sftools it sets each one to the same amount which is why you are getting wacky numbers

Your recipe choices here are weird too. Specifically the polymer resin as the first step of your petrochemical chain. HOR is much more oil efficient and you can use the smaller resin byproduct to feed the recycled plastic/rubber loop

[unique cypress]

I don't think those are their recipe choices. Tools' Maximize Mode just did random shit as always

[opaque quartz]

Well resin is an alt so it would have had to be checked in order to get used

[unique cypress]

almost all alts are checked

[opaque quartz]

Yeah on my phone so I can’t see that easily, but that would explain it

[unique cypress]

enabling all alts is not a bad idea in default mode

in maximize mode it's a terrible idea

but that mode is a terrible idea in general

[fierce prawn]

Load testing

[tulip portal]

i thought it was weird but i think its because it either minimizes power or materials, when i switched it to make max fuel it also switched to HOR alt

ok i thougth it was weird how all the numbers were the same for end product

[unique cypress]

in maximize mode, it doesn't do anything

it makes the maximum amount possible and that's it

it'll happily waste resources if it doesn't affect the final output

[tulip portal]

Ok to excel it is

[unique cypress]

Just don't use maximize mode? In the default items/min mode, Tools is the best calculator out there

[tulip portal]

But how am I supposed to know what the max I can make of each is then I haven’t really messed around with the other features

[unique cypress]

I wouldn't recommend going for the max in the first place. You'll likely either end up with way too much or way too little. Different items require different numbers of nodes to make a sensible amount of them. Picking nodes and then making however much you can make from them is like rolling dice.

But if you insist, you can use maximize mode, but use it on one item at once, and take the output number it spat out and put it back into items/min mode

In items/min mode, it optimizes for least average resources used

[opaque quartz]

I would target a number like 600 aluminum ingots and some hundreds of oil and rubber. That will be more than enough if you don’t have a specific amount you need right now

600 ingots is easy with sloppy+electrode+pure from 600 bauxite

[tulip portal]

im building mega factories lol, maximising is everythign on a knifes edge is half the fun for me

[prisma kraken]

<@&387163995947270144> ^^^

[jovial creek]

can someone explain a 1:5 splitter

i was at a alternatum where i either close a factory or use a 1:5 splitter and leave it running at 50% to accomodate a new factory and discovered this 1:5 splitter so was curious as to how it worked

im interested in the math behind it

[slender sandal]

what exactly is tripping you up about it? The center splitter splits it evenly into halves, then each output of the 2 side splitters is equal, giving you 6 equal outputs. One gets fed back in to the input to be split evenly again, leaving 5 equal outputs

[vapid gorge]

A manifold wouldn’t work?
And the math is the 6th path is always split into the other 5

[jovial creek]

unfortunately not in this case due to throughput

[gleaming shuttle]

each output has a 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6 probability to be visited, and theres also a 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6 probability to reenter the system

and this repeats

[jovial creek]

ty thats what i was looking for

[gleaming shuttle]

so the probability is 1/6 + (1/6)^2 + (1/6)^3 + ...

[vapid gorge]

Can you show me what you were doing? Cause literally every system I’ve ever seen anyone do can work with a manifold

Also load balancers don’t increase throughput

[gleaming shuttle]

and Σ_(n=1)^∞ (1/6)^n = 1/5

hence

[jovial creek]

sure

2x 150 coal. 1 goes through the 1:5 and then has 3 lanes merge back into one forming 90 which gets merged with the 150 to make 240. the other 2 from the 1:5 go off and merge into a 60 lane.

[gleaming shuttle]

why wouldn't a manifold work for this?

er, just a single splitter in this case

[jovial creek]

mk3 lanes only go up to 270

[gleaming shuttle]

split 1 line

[jovial creek]

unless im missing something and that doesnt matter

[gleaming shuttle]

merge it into the other

[jovial creek]

so a injection manifold?

[gleaming shuttle]

nothing so fancy

[jovial creek]

btw if im saying dumb stuff i started playing yesterday so im new to all this

[ornate coyote]

im running a 6 long manifold of coal and water for coal gens and it works flawlessly in confused...

and theyre double ocd

[gleaming shuttle]

like the point is that you dont need to balance numbers precisely

[jovial creek]

me to i got a 9 long one for my coal look

[vapid gorge]

I mean you can always design around to avoid an injection manifold through clocking

But you could make an injection

[gleaming shuttle]

if one line receives too much coal, itll back up and then the numbers will work out for the other line

[ornate coyote]

ight nvm idk anymore fr

[jovial creek]

my decisions were based off knowing only splitter ratios and normal manifolds hence being limited by 270 belts meant manifold wasnt possible

[ornate coyote]

i js restarted too n manifolds have been treating me so nice

[gleaming shuttle]

well yeah if you want to think of it like that

you can inject onto a shared line after taking enough coal off the initial line so that it would no longer exceed throughput

[vapid gorge]

Well you can always just use clocking to make a system use what’s on hand, but you can also use a smart splitter to overflow 1 manifold to the other at the start

[jovial creek]

now that you have introduced another idea, injection manifolds, i realise that would have been simpler but nonetheless what i have should work even if ugly

[gleaming shuttle]

your system should work yeah its just overengineered

at least if i understand what youre doing correctly

[vapid gorge]

Don’t even need an injection- smart splitter at the start set to overflow. Problem solved abd is probably cleaner

[jovial creek]

dont have smart splitters plus i really wanted to keep my steel beam factory up

[vapid gorge]

Get them unlocked. They are very early in the mam

[jovial creek]

im going to be honest

i assumed they were unlocked in one of the logistics

thanks again

[jovial creek]

it was just so i could fully utilise the 2 impure coal nodes for 2 factories

with mk2 miners

well ran both factories and so far all good seems to be saturating fine and almost at a 100% so ill take it

my 17 session can finally end

[vapid gorge]

Yeah no stress. Another option in that situation is just clocking machines correctly.

Like you could have coal feed generators down a line and left overs go to steel abd it’d balance out

Though imo it’s much better to completely seperate power and production

<@&387163995947270144> happening again

I think a bunch of people are getting hacked maybe? These accounts have been around for years

[jovial creek]

its pretty easy and cheap to buy aged discord token accounts and spam servers like that

unless you mean years in the server then idk

[vapid gorge]

Why would you bother though? Whether the account has been a member for 5 days or 5 years they get banned just as fast

Yeah that 😄

It’s happened specifically with those image spams a few times

Long time members

[jovial creek]

discord has alot of security nowadays making it almost impossible to spam on new accounts. its a coincidence most likely that that guy was here for years as someone bought the token for his account spammed all the servers then did the same on the next. its probably automated though

[vapid gorge]

Humans are weird

[jovial creek]

or maybe its targeted which if so ur right why bother

true im sure there are betyer ways to make money than whatever you call that method

is what it is though

[opaque quartz]

MrBeast is real and is my friend and wants to make me crypto rich!

[vapid gorge]

If you want good crypto laughs look up web3 is doing fine

[opaque quartz]

Oh yeah, I’m familiar 😊

[kindred carbon]

Ignore the carefully thought out foundations

[vapid gorge]

Further overhead, need to see the layouts

[kindred carbon]

The main belt is a mk2, the ones that connect to the building are mk1
Pure coal deposit so it’s 120/min

One second

[vapid gorge]

Build a scout tower and show the gens and at least one image of the incoming coal

[fallow siren]

nah just use photo mode, easier to get birds eye view

press P and then R

[kindred carbon]

Could be the coal line coming from the coal mine?

Do slopes slow down conveyer belts?

[vapid gorge]

Ok trouble shooting 101

Issues with systems typically fall into one of two categories

1. Throughput issue with what ever pipe belt vehicle not being enough

2. Math wrong. Bad clocking or wrong number of machines

[fallow siren]

that first belt is mk1, change it to mk2 for full 120/min throughput

[vapid gorge]

I was getting to that :p

[fallow siren]

the first belt from the miner is mk1

[vapid gorge]

In this case look at your miner. Is the output clogged and turning on and off? If so you have a throughput issue

A lower mk belt for example

[kindred carbon]

Nah this can’t be real

ITS FUCKING MK1

Alright i restarted my power grid

Yeah it was just because of a single mk1 belt

[fallow siren]

always check twice, or even thrice

its a common mistake

[vapid gorge]

Step 1 identify if the system is starved or clogged - you found it was starving of coal

Step 2- follow the problem backwards. You did that and found the clog 🙂

[kindred carbon]

Yeah I’m gonna have to stop being a dumbass 😂 thanks everyone

[vapid gorge]

Everyone learns how to troubleshoot 🙂

[opaque quartz]

For future reference: mergers, splitters, slopes, curves, and lifts do not affect throughput. Belt speed always does

[granite mantle]

On topic of splitters i have noticed one thing
If you input 120 items per second with mk2 belt that split into 2 mk1 belts
I have noticed that occasionally the mk2 belts stop for a fraction of a second despite mk1 belts running and not stopping

[vapid gorge]

likely just visual. the items on the belts aren't 'real'

[granite mantle]

I always thought that maybe it was processing delay by the game

I guess could be just visual since i never noticed a drop in throughput

[vapid gorge]

that's the real method of determinining if it's visual or not 🙂

apparently items on belts are 'virtual' objects? I'm nto sure what the definition of that is in game exactly but apparently visual stuff can happen

[opaque quartz]

The visuals of the belt can be a general guide but ultimately the machines will tell you if there are throughput issues

[vapid gorge]

you also don't need to make them each mk1 belts, a splitter will split that evenly

[granite mantle]

Ik, usually just do it early game since short in mk2 belt materials

[wind spade]

just remembered another problem:

while sloops are integer indeed, it's possible to have decimal amount of machines with sloops inside... which is kinda hard to represent in linear model (0.5 of a slooped machine making final product - still uses full sloops, but only produces half of what the machine does at full capacity)

I have a few theories of how to deal with this, but I'm not sure any of those will work

[unique cypress]

You can take a look at Satisfactory Optimizer. They do sloop optimization, albeit not fully correctly

[wind spade]

have a link?

[unique cypress]

https://github.com/Zistack/Satisfactory-Optimizer

[wind spade]

~~eeeh, python 🤢 ~~

[unique cypress]

Eh, the math doesn't change

Funnily enough, it's still faster than SCIM's production planner lmao

[wind spade]

the language itself is horrible to read and that person's coding style makes it even harder to read

[unique cypress]

Yeah, to read it myself, I had pycharm refactor it for me

[wind spade]

I'd have to transpile it to bython 😄

also from quick look around, I don't really understand how it works 🤔 (the library), so I may need to look later

[kindred carbon]

Imagine how bad the perf would be if all items on the belts were real lol

[oblique hollow]

Remember that some machines allow for 4 sloops, which means you get 1.25x output instead of 2x if you insert only 1 sloop

Only Accelerators and Quantum Encoders and Manufacturers have 4 slots i believe

[unique cypress]

A machine usually (always?) has as many sloop slots as input ports

[oblique hollow]

Huh, yes, never made that connection.

Though notably Particle Accelerator is an exception

4 vs 3

Huh wait does Blender have 4 too.. lemme check

[unique cypress]

true, and the packager has 0 sloop slots.

[oblique hollow]

Oh yup, 4 for Blender

Packager having none makes sense due to the broken combo of packaging recipes this would otherwise create

[opaque quartz]

<@&387163995947270144>

[jovial creek]

and items like ore had full dust physics as they move around a conveyor. water extractors had a actual water tank inside as well as pipes being hollow with the water flowing through had real water physics.

[jovial creek]

just of a glance both space wise and production wise does anyone spot any flaws. i definetly could have made it more compact but other than that. just looking for general tips as im quite new to all this. anything from how im powering it or laying belts etc

[gloomy shoal]

I'd hunt down the Encased Pipe recipe since it's broadly way cheaper
Possibly also molded steel, though I've found it is actually possible to run out of limestone that way

[jovial creek]

gotcha. design wise anything or so far so good?

only thing i dislike about this factory is its running of a 1:5 splitter ratio shared with a neighbouring factory

[unique cypress]

the pole placement is certainly a choice

[gloomy shoal]

I mean I'm squinting at your cable management and some of the belts-into-factory but nothing particularly important ultimately

[jovial creek]

the belts into factory was scuffed i was finishing the connections at 5am and was already pissed off at miscalculating something leasding to the 1:5 splitter

[jovial creek]

any tips? i did it that way to centralise it and the final pole is connected to the grid making it easier to disconnect the factory at will

[unique cypress]

I always put poles close to machines they connect to. If you really feel like you'll want to disconnect a factory, use a single, visible pole somewhere on the edge

[jovial creek]

gotcha thank you

gonna figure out injection manifolds now

[gloomy shoal]

Yeah, I typically avoid low powerlines between factories anyhow

Factory-to-factory warrants power towers in most to all cases, and the exceptions are pretty exclusively in me sticking printer modules together

[unique cypress]

Have fun with that. Though 1.1's priority mergers make them slightly more useful

[jovial creek]

unlocked p[hase 2 yesterday so its time to automate the next set of items i guess

[jovial creek]

thanks i usually try gfigure it out myself because that way i understand it better. for some reason i dislike using a tool if i dont understand it. hence why i hated using thr 1:5 splitter at 5am

1 hour was spent doing the math

[gloomy shoal]

I need to get back on Satisfactory, I still haven't really played a save past phase 2

I keep planning for Aluminium and extensive Nuclear setups but not playing enough to get there

[jovial creek]

my 6 base item fabricator directly belted to main storage

aslsos unlocking the jetpack is so much more of a godsend than i thought. no more fall damage finally. traversing down my base took 80% dmg each time

[unique cypress]

you have a jetpack and main storage?

Do some MAM research

[jovial creek]

i have researched like 5 things in the MAM 3 being eacvh of the coloured power slugs lol

[jovial creek]

wdym why is that bad

[unique cypress]

My condolences

[jovial creek]

wait im confused what am i missing out on

[unique cypress]

a lot

[jovial creek]

again 3 days old to this so im like a baby in regardless to knowledge

[jovial creek]

whata re the main important things im missing

[unique cypress]

the most important thing in the MAM are the blade runners

they're in the "Unknown Crystalline Mineral" tree

[gloomy shoal]

Pro tip: The shit in the MAM is distinctly worth getting

Particularly the Caterium tree and specifically the gun

[unique cypress]

||Quartz|| tree if you found it already

[jovial creek]

lol

these?

[unique cypress]

the "Classified Phenomena" tree also has a ton of good shiz

[jovial creek]

quartz

[gloomy shoal]

God, steel screws
I love them for "Fuck your goddamned screws" but they're also so ass for most cases

[jovial creek]

must i automate this too?

or just get enough to get the blade runners

[unique cypress]

screws are ass in most cases, regardless of the recipe you use to make them

[jovial creek]

ive heard thats why i found it funny

[unique cypress]

silica is used for some decorations and alt recipes, but you don't need need it

unlock everything in the MAM you can

[wind spade]

how is it ass?
screws are great and steel screws especially

[gloomy shoal]

Caterium is, practically mandatory
Quartz is needed later, and otherwise mostly just nice

[unique cypress]

other than copper rotor, I haven't found a single practical use for screws. Maybe ultracompact blueprints if the ratios work out.

[gloomy shoal]

Every time I've ever used steel screws so far, it's been a project where I went "I have an extra steel belt, it's been 4 hours, fuck it" and it promptly shitfucked my numbers because WHY IS IT 52
Oopsy doopsies

[wind spade]

the fact that your preferences are "WP-based resource efficiency" doesn't mean that other people share same preferences 😉

[wind spade]

ummm... it's 260/min

[unique cypress]

I checked space efficiency and they suck at that too

[gloomy shoal]

In some cases, I specifically made steel beams FOR the screws so now I have a weirdass steel belt floating out into the ether

[gloomy shoal]

I prefer to use per craft ratios when doing my maths once I'm past miner -> Base components

[jovial creek]

why can i go backwards in a hypertube

ive recently unlocked them and am thinking of using them instead of a tractor and found it funny

not very hyper is it

[wind spade]

well then you'll see weird numbers all the time. 52 is not very weird

[jovial creek]

52! is a big number

can i have a single lane of hypertubes somewhere and lay an entrance on each side and it works or does it need to be a 2 way system

[gloomy shoal]

Honestly no, usually the ratios click a lot better with the craft numbers

Screws are just very particularly used in amounts that don't play nicely with 52 in most cases, where regular Cast Screw is usually a lot nicer

[opaque quartz]

You can put an entrance on each side

[wind spade]

for example:

heavy flexible frame: 1.5 steel screw constructor per
copper rotor: 0.75 steel screw constructor per

those are very nice numbers compared to what you'll work with later

[jovial creek]

can tractors run on any fuel. what would be the best for to use for at my stage. coal?

[unique cypress]

coal?

or just belt stuff instead

[jovial creek]

wdym

[gloomy shoal]

Yknow, that'd do it actually
I don't usually bother with Copper Rotor (Trying to recall what recipe I usually use, I want to say it's Wire and Steel Pipe?)

Flexy frame I just plain don't think I've sat down with the game long enough to deal with yet

[wind spade]

most of the time you can find a nice ratio to clock the machines so that they match the production nicely

[unique cypress]

wdym wdym? are you using the tractor for items or only for yourself

[wind spade]

these were just examples of places where you don't even need to clock much

[jovial creek]

i hate running over to collect steal pipes/beams and i discovered the tractor tstation so im planning on settiong up a track for it to run basck asnf forth sand bring me the items

pardon the spelling my keyboard is on low actuation rn

[unique cypress]

MAM alien technology

[jovial creek]

huh

[unique cypress]

or do belts or tractors. it's your game

[gloomy shoal]

The funny purple balls that completely invalidate my project-train-logistics-supermesh

[jovial creek]

wait im confused is the MAM hiding some sort of crazy transportation emthod for items

[unique cypress]

yes

crazy, though not for general item transportation

[gloomy shoal]

Like
I'm glad it exists but I'm still internally wailing that there's no good reason for me to bother making any kind of project site setup beyond "Do I have a power tower over here" and maybe evaporating the local fauna

[opaque quartz]

Dimensional depot. Cloud inventory for build gun

[crimson moat]

I've looked at the saves/setups and reconfirmed that this issue does exist, and specifically exists on manifolds near the pipe flow rate capacity.

[opaque quartz]

Doesn’t eliminate the need for logistics for factories but saves you from having to run back and forth to restock for building

[unique cypress]

you said that 80-90% is the best that you can do. I did 100%, though. Sure, maybe some setups can't, but that doesn't mean it's impossible

[crimson moat]

Yeah that's fair 😛

I have a system right now to test it and it's fluctuating between 85-88% of the pipe flow rate stat for useful movement of liquid.

I started it completely full (buffers and pipes) via feeding 2x600, then cut it down to 1x600. Consumption is 1x600.

Result is that it steadily drained and machines started to idle until 12-15% of them were idle on average, then it was steady state.

Which basically matches the 1.0 test data.

[gloomy shoal]

I'm not going to get too into the pipe thing
All I'm going to say is "God, I might start genuinely load-balancing pipes if it means I don't need to put up with this shit anymore"

Also making liberal use of the packager in every case I can get away with it

[wind spade]

eh, the basic vertical loop works in majority of cases and is easy to implement

[gloomy shoal]

It probably does, but frankly if I have to debug one more "Pipes being jank" issue I'm gonna start strangling people

[jovial creek]

me first

[wind spade]

you should start with strangling the one who built it

[jovial creek]

or second i guess

[gloomy shoal]

My lawyer has advised me not to say something funny in response to that

[oblique hollow]

funny enough, junctions will thank you for it in all likelyhood lmao

junctions want to split fluid coming into them evenly

thats why manifolds are so ass at high flow rates

[unique cypress]

*unless they're not level

[oblique hollow]

because the junction wants to split evenly but it cant if you have a machine one side and the rest of the manifold on the other side

[gloomy shoal]

I mean, to my understanding, the critical issue with pipes (particularly 600 ones) is that saving/loading has them temporarily forget what they were supposed to be doing, so you get backflow/sloshing, and the backflow/sloshing eats pipe rate thus fuckshitting your whole system

[crimson moat]

Nah they are perfectly capable of choking themselves down to 85% flowrate while full and without saving

[gloomy shoal]

Ergo, if I break all 600 pipes into three 200 pipes it Maybe Hopefully Won't Do That

[wind spade]

there is some save/load bug (or was), but that's not the case

[unique cypress]

I have 600/min pipes working fine.

in manifolds, too

[wind spade]

the "issue" with pipes is backflow, which reduces flow in desired direction
and backflow can happen in any pipe section, if flow hits a wall/full pipe/machine/whatever, it bounces back

[crimson moat]

Well i'm standing in front of a manifold that drained itself from being full in every pipe/buffer to only having an average of ~87% of the generators turned on at once.

I.e. the 600 pipe is flowrate limited while moving only 522/min fluid, and it's stalling both the fuel blender upstream and the generators downstream.

Simple as can be, junctions 2m in front of every input and straight pipes of minimal length

[oblique hollow]

Well, that is only one of the current issues.
but not the main issue when you just manifold 600/min

that save/load bug is what chokes fuel plants and nuclear plants.
but thats only when you load the save after all

afterwards, things should stabilize, right?
well, depending on your piping, it wont

[oblique hollow]

Just cause it was manifolded doesnt mean it wont work

[unique cypress]

I put junctions a few metres above inputs/outputs. sometimes flat, sometimes tilted 45* toward the machine

[oblique hollow]

It depends on how it was manifolded

[jovial creek]

why isnt my tractor driving i recorded a path and set it to autopilot am i missing something

nevermind it just set off lol

[oblique hollow]

probably because it was on a wait node?

[jovial creek]

how long does it wait for

[unique cypress]

however long you waited when recording probably

[oblique hollow]

you can set the time if you interact with the node

[boreal heron]

Is it possible to change a trains path finding? (Ex. Having a train skip a line and got to the next)

[unique cypress]

no

[prisma kraken]

no, it is statically picked when a train departs a station

[unique cypress]

they always take the shortest possible path

[boreal heron]

Is there a way to use a holding bay type of system using multiple stations?

[unique cypress]

no

if you want waiting bays, you need one behind every station

[boreal heron]

Ok thanks

[jovial creek]

u can place splitters directly onto exisiting conveyors how did i just find this out holy

[opaque quartz]

Be aware that building this way can cause issues if you upgrade belts later. Small segments can end up hidden inside the splitters/mergers you placed on existing belts

[jovial creek]

yeah it was just to spolit off a coal line and interupting it would have messed with the grid luckily that feature saved me

[rapid trail]

Hello once again :),
the first release version of Assistory just got published. It is now much faster, more stable and better documented. Try it out it you want

[umbral barn]

what is this? :P

also on a random note how many trains/cars would i need to move 3.8 k and 3.5 k ore?

[rapid trail]

You can find it on Github. It's all described there

[unique cypress]

depends how far

and what belts you have

[umbral barn]

I have mk 5 belts

im trying to move them to the ocean above spire coast (idk where im getting the material from yet, depends on where the closest quartz, iron, and caterium nodes are)

[unique cypress]

3 wagons can move 3836 ore/min up to 2.5 minutes round trip with mk5 belts

3200/min up to 3 min round trip

needless to say, you'll probably need more than 3 wagons

3 min round trip is 1 min there, 1 min back and 2x 30s for loading/unloading

[umbral barn]

how many could 5 cars do?

[jovial creek]

is quartz located underground i went to like 3 nodes by the desert and i cant seem to get to them as i cant find a cave entrance or something

[opaque quartz]

The nodes in the middle of rocky desert are underground. The cave is huge so the entrances aren’t close by

[jovial creek]

sigh

[unique cypress]

6393, again, up to 2.5 minutes

or 3200 up to 5

[jovial creek]

where is the cave entrance

[opaque quartz]

The cave runs the length of the desert east-west

[jovial creek]

do you mdind circling it if thats okay

[unique cypress]

just turn on the caves layer lol

[jovial creek]

how do i do that

oh i thought u meant in game mb

[jovial creek]

tyy

[jovial creek]

@unique cypress i actually love you

ive spent the last hour or 2 gathering things for MAM research and its actually crazy what i was missing out on

the leg things are insane

inventory space

hand slots

[quaint vale]

will i need 240 screws a minute anytime?

[jovial creek]

most likely not because most things have alternate recipes that dont need screws

depends though are u using any screws right now?

[quaint vale]

not really yet...

[jovial creek]

the only thing im using screws for is iron rebarb lol

i have a permanent 40 being made but i dont see the need for anymore

[quaint vale]

I just built an earlygame monstrosity to overproduce everything iron

[jovial creek]

trust me you wont need mopre than 60 of everything i did the same

[quaint vale]

how hard is it to beat the game btw

[jovial creek]

wouldnt say hard just time consuming. and the time it takes fully depends on how u play. whether u rush through stages by hand crafting or automating as u go along its all up too you

[quaint vale]

hmmm

[jovial creek]

games only beat when you think its beat

i mean obviosuly there is a stage where u have nothing else to do but yk

[crimson moat]

If you do everything "properly" and take time to smell the flowers with experimenting on mechanics, doing things in different ways, building asthetic stuff etc then it can be like 1k hours and a substantial intellectual challenge. If you do bare minimum, closer to 100. Speedrun is like 10? but that's mostly spamming stuff that they've already done 50 times before.

[patent blaze]

anybody else notice how bad straight mode became?

have to place the supports first to make it work

[crimson moat]

Straight mode won't curve to make a non-straight line. You're asking it to move like 20 meters towards you and 1 meter left, which it won't do

[patent blaze]

"Straight mode won't curve to make a non-straight line." this is just false, whenever you use straight mode and make a small turn it doesnt make the end support straight

not anymore at least, it used to in 1.0

[jovial creek]

????

how is that false lol it does exactly what he said

[crimson moat]

I have not observed any difference in behavior for belt straight mode between 1.0 and 1.1

And yes you can curve it at a 90 degree angle, but 1 meter of sideways distance isn't enough to do that.

[patent blaze]

does this look straight to you

[jovial creek]

lmao

[crimson moat]

That's 2 meters of sideways distance to make a 90 degree turn

[patent blaze]

which is completely fine with default

[crimson moat]

if you only do 1 meter sideways it cannot make a 90 degree turn properly for lack of distance, it never has been able to

[jovial creek]

u misunderstand what it means by straight

[wind spade]

generally I'd recommend to not build things in advance. So instead of building 240/min screws and then asking what to do with them, do not build any, until you have demand for them

[jovial creek]

its not a straight line from the intial and final snapping point

obviosuly if you put it to the side it will have a 90 degree curve to turn

but it wont be like default or curved where they canm have a varying angle

its not 'bad'

[patent blaze]

its bad.

when i use straight mode i expect it to place straight belts, yes even in 2m curves cause that is possible in default mode

[jovial creek]

dude dude laro i dont think you understand its not literally creating a straight line of conveyors from the intial and final snappoing point i just said this

thats what default is for

straight end and starting point being parallel will make a straight line as it would with default

[patent blaze]

the belt is whatever, lets just focus on the supports, the starting support is straight at all times, but when i place a clearly possible belt with a 2m curve at the end, it places a support that is something like 2-5 degrees rotated

how is that straight in any way?

[jovial creek]

laro

guess what if if you kept moving ur cursor further it would have ended up making a 90 degree angle as intended with straight mode

[patent blaze]

thats a 3m curve

[unique cypress]

That's not a 90° turn?

[patent blaze]

thats

[jovial creek]

ik

[patent blaze]

you tried making a 1m curve

can you not see how obviously crooked the bottom right support is here?

[magic gyro]

scroll wheel doesn't do anything?

[patent blaze]

cant scroll with straight

[magic gyro]

ahh

[patent blaze]

its meant to do that stuff for you, thats the whole point

LOL i give up

[jovial creek]

im starting to see what u mean

but like when that occurs just use a curve?

[patent blaze]

"just use a curve" it's obviously a bug that can go unnoticed and wastes time and effort removing and replacing belts until you figure out the problem

[unique cypress]

curve doesn't make sharp 90° turns without measuring it by hand though?

That's what straight is supposed to do

[patent blaze]

and dont even get me started on this

vs

[jovial creek]

?wait im confused you wanted it to make a 90 degree angle with only like 1 metre to the right and ur calling it a bug?

[unique cypress]

this is 2m fwd and 2m left

[patent blaze]

2 METERS MAN

i've NEVER made a 1m turn!

[indigo bough]

can someone help me understand this? am I missing something or what? just realized my factory is bottlenecked so I went down the chain to the actual miner

I have it overclock to produce 480, but it's only producing 360 for some reason you can even see it on throughput monitor and yes I am using mk4 belt ( 480 resource per minute )

[jovial creek]

whats wrong with just dsoing 3 metres

[unique cypress]

because you have to measure 3m by hand

[jovial creek]

if it caant do 2 then its too sharp for a 90?

so instead u want to measure 2m?

[thorn trail]

check all your belts, because if the counter there is only reading 360 then it means something upstream is limiting its flow

[unique cypress]

straight mode is supposed to do that automatically

and it does but the turn is like 88 or 92 degrees instead of 90

[jovial creek]

was it stated that it could do 90 at 2m?

[unique cypress]

default can

you just need poles spaced correctly

straight is supposed to do that without poles

[indigo bough]

eh I already double checked everything I guess I have to triple check it

[opaque quartz]

Are you consuming 480 ore from this miner with all the machines connected downstream?

[indigo bough]

yep

[thorn trail]

look for gaps between items on your upstream belts, as well as making sure any lifts used are also handling the right amount

[opaque quartz]

Are all those machines green? 100% efficiency, no yellow status lights?

Either your math is off, your machines outputs are clogged, or you have a lower tier belt bottlenecking you somewhere

[indigo bough]

smelters are green but then constructors are not and because everything else works missing ingots are slowing everything down

[opaque quartz]

Are all those constructors running green? You need to trace the problem step to step until you find the bottleneck

[indigo bough]

I think I'm gonna rewire and reconnect everything just to be safe, it should fix it hopefuly

[opaque quartz]

IMHO you should take this opportunity to learn how to methodically troubleshoot it

If you rebuild it all and it fixes it you won’t know what the fix actually was

[indigo bough]

I kinda did that twice maybe I'm just blind :/

[opaque quartz]

Make a thread in #1038092680493801533 and post screenshots of all the stages of your build

Smelters, constructors, etc

[indigo bough]

I was so sure everything will work well that I kinda build the whole base first without first trying it 😅 it kinda did except that one thing :/

[charred grove]

Hi all
new player looking for an overall planning tool, maybe a template in excel
i understood satisfactory calculator and modeler as specific to builds or full chains, but not overall
any suggestions?

[indigo bough]

I use this
simple but good enough to visualize it https://autumnfallstudios.itch.io/salt

[opaque quartz]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

There are others linked in #welcome but sftools is the best IMHO

[indigo bough]

yea you were right, I was trying to merge 560 ingots into a 480 belt and it bottleneck things downstream, didn't realize the game can correct for it like that

[opaque quartz]

The math don’t lie 😊

[thorn trail]

glad you found the issue

[unique cypress]

god fucking dammit

<@&387163995947270144>

thank you

[wind spade]

today there seems to be a lot of mod pings

[unique cypress]

the same scam/spam messages were sent 3-4 times today

and another one yesterday I think

[wind spade]

people keep clicking on it I guess

is it no link scam, so it doesn't get detected?

[unique cypress]

they're just pictures of a screen

[wind spade]

ah

[unique cypress]

there's a link in the image I think?

so they're hoping someone will go there?

[umbral barn]

do i have to balance the belts from my trains?

[opaque quartz]

you should expect to get one belt out per platform equivalent to what you put in

eg if you are loading the platform with a full mk5 belt, you should unload it with the same

Make sure to buffer both load and unload platforms with double-belted ISCs

[unique cypress]

you can get more throughput if you do

[wind spade]

just take out the same amount you put in 🙂

[umbral barn]

I know but like i have 5 stations with 5 car trains, its a bit hard to remember which platform is for which stations pickup

[quick gorge]

So Drones
I want to use them for uranium, maybe the fuel rods/waste (depending)
I just need to know how much fuel/m is realistically needed for them.
Depends on distance and I haven't chosen where I'm actually placing the reactors/(re-)processing
I am aiming for using Ionized

[umbral barn]

it depends on distance + how many drones

also dont use the drones for waste

1 fuel rod = 50 waste so unless you're doing small scale it'll overwhelm the drones unless you have a lot of them

remember the drones only have 9 slots

[quick gorge]

Yeah sorry not waste

[umbral barn]

also why the hell would you move fuel rods in drones i dont get that

[quick gorge]

Sky radiation

[umbral barn]

???

just make the rods in the same place you use them

[quick gorge]

But that will be 95% water extractors

[unique cypress]

Waste stacks to 500, so you can transport 500/min anywhere on the map and 1000/min up to 3ish km away with ionized

[quick gorge]

Perfect

A lot of locations are up in the air rn.
I'm doing the plan now

[unique cypress]

That's assuming my calculations are correct so I suggest testing it with concrete or something first lol

[quick gorge]

I have not uses drones outside of testing and that was waay back when they first added them so there is more rust than iron at this point

[quick gorge]

Also regarding scale.
All of it.

*not transmuted

[umbral barn]

same here

im just doing all my processing in one spot

[quick gorge]

I don't want to put it where everyone else puts em. Partly because I hate myself

[umbral barn]

i just went put it in the big ass ocean above the map

[quick gorge]

I'm thinking north of the Dunes "flying" over the void pit.
It is just easy of an ocean

I don't thinking going to put all uran+plut+fics in the same location

Perhaps paradise island, out of the way, plenty of water.. waterfall view

How much ionized would I need for this travel?

[crimson moat]

maybe 25/min to bring all uranium there

[opaque quartz]

Fuel rods are extremely low volume so they are fine in drones

I always build my nuclear rod factory on the coast of the swamp and plants directly over the water

[quick gorge]

🫡 Thank you Pioneer
I plan to make the Uran rods on the waterfall, reactors on paradise island, process to plut rods before sending them via drone else to their next stop so I'll need around 40ish.

[quick gorge]

<@&387163995947270144> another one :/

They are keeping you busy now aren't they? 😅

[umbral barn]

im trying to move 115 fluid tanks a minute from the swamp to the crater lake (rocket fuel factory), should i drone that or use train?

[crimson moat]

1 drone will be plenty, idle most of the time

[wild magnet]

Do any of you guys ever had this thing with the satisfactory modeler program where it just gets stuck loading for no reason?

[fallow siren]

it happens when your graph has too many connection to one node

the more connection it has, the slower the app can calculate the numbers

[wild magnet]

I see, that's a bit annoying

but workable

thx

[quick gorge]

Yeah it just means it's scared

When that happens I do something like this

[umbral barn]

ik i mentioned this before but im curious now, plutonium fuel unit vs fuel rod, whats the difference and why do so many people use this over the default recipe

[fallow siren]

fuel unit if you want more rod out of uranium waste

the default rod recipe if you just want to sink them

[umbral barn]

also i will never understand this but why the fuck does nitric acid need a single iron plate 😭

like it feels so random

[umbral barn]

what about rocket or turbofuel?

[fallow siren]

rocket are the same as battery afaik

turbofuel is below tier over rocket

but still a good fuel

[crimson moat]

Unit trades a bunch of resources, primarily Bauxite, for more plutonium rods. It's a pretty good recipe if you're going to store plutonium waste as you get a manageable amount of waste either way (i.e. 100 storage containers, not 10,000)

but if you're trying to reprocess it into Ficsonium then more plut rods (and their waste) is a curse

[fallow siren]

you pretty much need all the sam in the world if you want to convert all those plut waste into ficsonium

[crimson moat]

there's never enough SAM because if you had more, you would convert more stuff to uranium

[umbral barn]

and all the resources TwT

[crimson moat]

current status btw

this is getting pretty large 😄 😄

[umbral barn]

... aeryn wtf is that

[crimson moat]

looks nicer up close but hard to get a sense of scale

1tw ficsonium plant

with underclocking for efficiency (the particle accelerators are at around 20%, and everything else is <=100%)

This is literally only like half of it, it's pretty funny

there is a whole recycler loop, aluminum area and ore to singularity cells to come yet

• some other stuff

[fallow siren]

that until you ran out copper to convert into bauxite into uranium

assuming theres tons of sam

[crimson moat]

ye i have slooped copper powder in my plan cause no copper

eventually

[wild magnet]

yeah i did this

[quick gorge]

Yeah just little work arounds to make the thing work ^_^

[wild magnet]

it does annoy me how I can't actually put it balanced

and that extra 60 line was because it still had trouble with one more line

[slender sandal]

you can also change the calculator mode in the settings menu from full to manual

it will make you have to input a few more numbers by hand, but it means it wont get stuck like that

[boreal heron]

so after testing i have made a way to sort of doge/change train pathing so i can have multiple trains use only 1 station without fully backing up the train line. basically, you just have a waiting bay were you have a single train station and set the stop setting to 1 second with only path signals leading to the drop off station and only placing block signals on the end of the freight platform thought?

[vapid gorge]

why not just use that extra station to be teh drop off point ?

[gleaming shuttle]

for #satisfactory

[boreal heron]

Looks cooler and easy belt work

[vapid gorge]

so you are aware the more trains you have stopping at any particular station means you're reducing the total throughput each platform can do right?

on top of the extra time you're adding to each train's rtt which may also reduce throughput

having even 1 more train stopping at a station is a significant amount of down time to the belts

and if you have multiple trains waiting to get into 1 station that means the belts will be paused for a significant amount of time as each train unloads, which could easilly mean a train can't fully unload dropping a ton of throughput on that route

[unique cypress]

Not if you have the train set to only depart when empty

Then the loading pause happens exactly once per every full wagon unloaded

[vapid gorge]

that would probably make it worse, making other trains wait minutes and still chaining it

you would dramatically increase every single train's rtt

[unique cypress]

That's the point. If the trains arrive too often and unload partially, then you have to delay them to unload them fully

[vapid gorge]

You're still having many many more pauses on the belts, that won't help with any of the throughput issues and just lengthen each train's RTT

which can easily drop the train's throughput

you're just trading 1 problem for a different one

[unique cypress]

The point is that you're not getting more pauses. You're getting less. Because they unload exactly once per every full load delivered. You literally cannot have fewer pauses and still move items

If you just unload the trains whenever they arrive, you might unload half, or 3/4 of a wagon. That's more pauses

[vapid gorge]

if you have 5 trains stopping at a station to unload that is 5 pauses within the RTT of the system, instead of say 1 pause when you have 1 train dropping things off

you are not reducing pauses

it is physically impossible to reduce the number of pauses you get by having more trains stopping at a station.

and as stated like three times already by having each train wait for who knows how long until the inventory can be fully dropped off, each and every other train will have their return times dramatically increased.

there's a reason why the train system is the way it is, and trying to cram this sort of system into it is only going to work if each train is moving a very small fraction of a belt's worth of throughput

as it is, many point to point train deliveries can maybe manage 1 belt's worth of throughput. dropping more trains stopping that will have a huge impact.

now maybe you're ok with each train carrying 1/10th of a belt, but that's a hell of a downside and restriction

[unique cypress]

Either way, that's 1 pause per train. If we're comparing 1 train vs 5, both departing when empty, then true, you're not reducing pauses. But you're not increasing them

[unique cypress]

Bruh, I have literally used this method to increase throughput on long routes and it worked

[vapid gorge]

you're making 5 pauses.
and if each train has a longer RTT, if it's even possible for them to hold more in their cars, it means they'll pause for even longer making the other trains wait

[unique cypress]

I made a fucking calculator based on this logic, and it has never been inaccurate

[vapid gorge]

yeah, if you have tiny throughputs sure.

[unique cypress]

Throughput per platform, 5 trains, 2 mk6 belts, buffered, items stackable to 100

Green is depart when empty, red is default settings

Past the 9 min mark, they overlap

Round trip time is the time it takes the train to complete its route without waiting at stations (i.e. loading/unloading immediately after arriving)

[prisma kraken]

your numbers there look kinda wonky to me

i think i'm misreading. per platform, ok

incidentally, in my current project, i've been centralizing the world's quartz and 5 car trains are able to move 2400/min pretty far

i've been doing it as a sort of hodge-podge where i'm mixing and matching different trains and different frieght platforms so that each platform has exactly 600/min incoming. pretty sure i've got the problem solved at this point but need to do some more rigorous testing

[latent sky]

I tried to balance out the concrete and steel usage between 2 alternative recipes, but there's no solution 😢

[kindred carbon]

Just run an unbalanced belt lil bro

Also just use satisfactory calculator lol

[vapid gorge]

what are you trying to make, with what recipes?

[unique cypress]

Satisfactory calculator's production planner fucking sucks

[latent sky]

But the there would be a bunch of left over materials

[latent sky]

Encased industrial beams

[kindred carbon]

Nah I’m talking about the balancer

[vapid gorge]

how many and with what recipes?

[latent sky]

I just now realised that I made an error

[unique cypress]

Balancers on SCIM also suck ass

[latent sky]

The most I can from 320 concrete and 720 steel ingots with the default recipe and the pipe recipe, but I forgot to account for the amount of pipes I'll need to make heavy modular frames from these, so I'll try again

[vapid gorge]

which pipe recipe?

[unique cypress]

just go to Satisfactory Tools and it'll figure something out for you

or just get more resources and use only one recipe

[latent sky]

The default

[vapid gorge]

ok but what are you making

"The most I can from 320 concrete and 720 steel ingots with the default recipe and the pipe recipe"

the most of what

the encased pipe recipe?

[latent sky]

The most encased industrial beams with the default and the encased pipe recipes and also making extra steel pipes to make heavy modular frames with the default recipe

[vapid gorge]

how many extra steel pipes

[kindred carbon]

Are there any good screw recipes for me to rescan for?

Only have 3 rescans

[vapid gorge]

steel screw is amazing

[unique cypress]

the best screw recipes are the ones that don't use any

[kindred carbon]

Although I got a bolted iron plate recipe that looks good

[vapid gorge]

yeah really compact. Bolted Plate and Bolted Frame pair very well with Steel screw

[kindred carbon]

Btw are the iron and copper alloy ingots good recipes?

[unique cypress]

except if you consider the entire chain from ore, it's not compact. only the very last step is

[vapid gorge]

all recipes have their situations where they shine. It's up to you to decide where that is

those are some of my fav though

[deft lichen]

I really like them, sometimes simplicity is better than resource efficiency

[kindred carbon]

Idk enough tbh so I’ll rescan

I don’t have iron and copper nodes close together rn

[vapid gorge]

they are all over the map. but up to you

[deft lichen]

don't restrict yourself to your starting area

[kindred carbon]

Oh wow I got a rigor motor recipe instead lmao

[kindred carbon]

Don’t have trains unlocked yet

[vapid gorge]

here https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=V96mpTTuA56GNIX2089l

[vapid gorge]

so? belts and trucks are fine. and trains are even earlier these days

[jovial creek]

stranded while its dark but damn this game is beautiful

[kindred carbon]

Stitched iron plate vs bolted iron plate now

[unique cypress]

stitched

[vapid gorge]

shrug
again, all recipes shine depending on the situation you're in, what other recipes you want to use, and your personal preferences

[kindred carbon]

The problem with belts for me is the spaghetti lol

[unique cypress]

especially with iron wire

[deft lichen]

stitched is resource efficient, bolted is "fast"

[vapid gorge]

you're never locked out of a recipe.

[kindred carbon]

Yes true

[latent sky]

It has a solution if I account for the pipes used for the heavy modular frames (p=default recipe ; q=encased industrial pipes; a=steel;b=concrete)

[vapid gorge]

you didn't bother clicking on the link did you...

[jovial creek]

lmao i used to do the math by hand but then i found the tools and honestly as nice as it is to get the math done urself the tool will save u some much time fine tuning without having to redo the math each time

to each their own though

[vapid gorge]

or just seeing what a small tweak does for a large chain

[jovial creek]

yup exactly

[kindred carbon]

Anyway, I should go on to build my 16 constructors for the rotor factory

More like 22 I think lol

[latent sky]

Why is it using sam?

[vapid gorge]

oh just turn it off. Forgot to

in the inputs tab

the conversion recipes are considered 'base' recipes they they start off ticked

[unique cypress]

Actually, @vapid gorge , I built a 5 train setup with an extremely short route, with all of them set to only depart only when empty/full both stations

and lo and behold, the transfer rate is exactly what I calculated for this setup

[jovial creek]

is this worth tasking?

taking*

[wind spade]

not sure what is "this", but all recipes are useful in some way, and you can get all of them anyway, so if you like something, take it and use it

[jovial creek]

sorryu i meant the inventory slots ive never seen it come up before so was curious if it weas better to take over a recipe

[vapid gorge]

if you don't need hte recipe right now? sure why not

[wind spade]

personal opinion: inventory space is pointless if you have everything in dimensional depots anyway

but whether it's worth to you or not is up to you

[vapid gorge]

more space can be nice

[jovial creek]

i havent picked anmy recipes yet. apparently its good to just save them all up to remove bad recipes or something

[wind spade]

nah

[jovial creek]

and dimensional depot wise im on the last stage. just need to set up a temporary sam fluctuator fab so i can icnrease stack size and upload speed

[wind spade]

picking recipes early means you can use them early. You can always get more drives and more recipes (and imo you should), so unless you don't need any of the recipes given to you, I'd pick one and carry on with the save

[jovial creek]

kk

[wind spade]

the "remove bad recipes" is practically only useful if you're looking for a concrete recipe

[jovial creek]

yeah imk liking the iron pipe makes my life sm easier not needing coal

[wind spade]

(though it increases iron costs a lot, and you'll need coal anyway eventually)

but again, these are just my opinions, feel free to pick whatever you like and use it, there's no "bad" recipe

[jovial creek]

yeah my current steel pipe/beam fab is using a decent amount of coal anyways

[faint frost]

When we complete the turning point and launch from the hub, we can launch a capsule into space even if the hub is covered. If the hub is covered, the capsule that will go to space should not be launched.

[oblique hollow]

there are many things like that that shouldnt be allowed but work anyway because the devs dont want to limit us

you can pull belts and lifts through walls and floors without holes

Drones can fly through solid objects

[wind spade]

because the devs dont want to limit us because people want OP buggy things

[unique cypress]

"Devs don't want to limit us". Meanwhile there's only a third of the SAM that'd be required to do max nuclear + 10 augmenters

[oblique hollow]

Theres a difference between imposing build limits and limiting resources

Production and power have always been stated to require thought from the player about how much they wanna use where. Those 2 have always been limited.

Building on the other hand has always been given more and more freedom.

[unique cypress]

Before 1.0, my endgame builds were limited by my PC before hitting any of the resource limits. After 1.0, if I don't want to make phase 4 parts again, I'm limited by SAM and Bauxite way before hitting the limits of my CPU

[oblique hollow]

Whats the point of resource limits if you cant hit em before your PC explodes

im kidding of course, but being able to hit limits is kinda a luxury

[umbral barn]

I agree, my game likes to hitch if I mass dismantle a bunch of stuff (idk why it does this but if I mass dismantle like a wall or a bunch of belts, my game just freezes up)

Then its back to 60 fps

Also is this train route a good route for uranium? (It's the route going from the top of the map down to the middle and then back up)

[opaque quartz]

Press B for Blashlight

[umbral barn]

whats the difference between sbp and sbpcfg in terms of blueprint files?

[unique cypress]

I think one is the blueprint file and one is the description, icon, etc?

Not sure but I think you need both

[umbral barn]

oh oki :P

[umbral barn]

ok so idk if this is an actual bug or not but this is where my uranium is currently being dropped at and despite there being no uranium here, this entire area (from the freights to the sinks) is radioactive, weird bug or?

[covert vortex]

idk, but the radiation prob takes a little bit to wear off
try stopping the uranium going there and see if that fixes it

[umbral barn]

well reloading fixed it

[umbral barn]

is telling the train to wait until its fully loaded a guarenteed method for perfect thruput?

[unique cypress]

yes

but the wagons need to be balanced

[umbral barn]

?

why?

[unique cypress]

all wagons need to be loaded and unloaded at the same rate and always have equal contents

otherwise, the train will move at the rate of the slowest wagon

[umbral barn]

which i cant do with uranium...

since i have two 600s and one 300

[unique cypress]

use a balancer

[umbral barn]

srry not one 300 i mean three ;w;

[umbral barn]

sir how the hell do i balance those they're kilometers away from eachother...

[unique cypress]

are you loading them all on the same train or just deliviering them to the same station?

[umbral barn]

1 train with 5 load stops then one unload

[unique cypress]

then at each stop split the items equally among all wagons

and the 5 load stops should be on default delay settings

only the unload to depart when empty

[unique cypress]

the only thing that matters is that the wagons have equal contents

oh, and you'll obviously need a balancer on the unload side as well

[umbral barn]

I have no idea how to make a balancer...

[unique cypress]

I can tell you but I'll need to know the number of belts involved

[umbral barn]

5 belts :P

[unique cypress]

on the loading side, you probably have 1 belt in, split among however many wagons you have

[umbral barn]

so 1:5 for the loading side then 5:5 for the unload

[unique cypress]

and on the unload side, input is the number of wagons, and output is the number of uranium belts you'll have inside your factory (whatever you want, really)

[boreal heron]

The whole idea is about pathing idc about throughput I will have 5 balanced belts of 1200 no mater what

[unique cypress]

https://imgur.com/a/satisfactory-balancers-TnomMFk

the 1:5 will be the 2:6 from there but 1 of the 6 outputs looped back to either of the inputs

the 5:5 can be used from there as is

[umbral barn]

well i wanted to have a belt for each miner so it would be easier to keep track of which belt has which thruput but i may just do 3 belts since thats the lowest i can do without maxing out my thruput

[unique cypress]

not all of the balancer in that link are correct so I suggest you confirm with me before you use one

[amber umbra]

@umbral barn Just btw that the full/empty setting usually uses a different style setup where a train goes between just two stations rather than a large number of stations.

Does full/empty even work if you only fill 1 wagon of a 4 wagon train at a single stop for example?

[umbral barn]

and people dont get why i hate using these things

[amber umbra]

Is a bit extra confusing in satisfactory as there are a variety of train setups, yup.

[umbral barn]

well it can work if you have it set up to go full empty or delay for x seconds

[edgy leaf]

I prefer to set the round trip time manually using a bottleneck, no waiting until full/empty

it's guaranteed to work no matter how many stops you have

[unique cypress]

you only get full benefits if the delay setting is AND 0 seconds

[amber umbra]

I prefer the full/empty style. It’s guaranteed to work when setup properly. All personal preference.

[umbral barn]

oh, i had some issues with it not wanting to work so i just threw or 1500 and it worked for me :P

[unique cypress]

if the other platforms are empty platforms, not cargo platforms, yes

[edgy leaf]

what if you have a train that has multiple inputs and multiple outputs? then full/empty on all of them wouldn't work

even on just one could fail depending on how the train stations are distributed in the world

[amber umbra]

Yup. Idea is I just wouldn’t do that.

[umbral barn]

so this?

[unique cypress]

that's a 3:2

[umbral barn]

ah

this?

[amber umbra]

What items are you transporting again? The key thing with trains is to validate your setup before implementing at scale. So many players skip the step then try to fix an inherently flawed design.

[unique cypress]

yep, that's a 2:6. Loop one belt back and you're left with a 1:5

[umbral barn]

uranium on this train

[edgy leaf]

another built in benefit of the bottleneck setup is that its more resilient against trains arriving late

[unique cypress]

I'd say depart when empty is more resilient

the delay doesn't matter at all as long as it stays below the threshold

[edgy leaf]

no, because with the bottleneck setup you always have a train waiting, so your next train could be 100% late and you wouldn't lose throughput

[unique cypress]

You can do the same with depart when empty

[edgy leaf]

you could also have a train waiting with wait until full, but it's not an integral part of the setup

[unique cypress]

and you don't even need a train waiting. as long as one arrives before the previous one's load is unloaded, it's fine

[amber umbra]

There are multiple independent ways to have train setups that maintain throughput despite transient delays. The setups that aren’t resilient to that are pretty meh, imo.

[umbral barn]

not me trying to do this without clipping any of the belts

its spaghet

[unique cypress]

that's why I clip

compact and symmetrical

[quick gorge]

If you hide your clipping like what I've done with my SAM build. There is just a magic box that makes my belts happy. Do not open the box

Make a pretty box.
This is cross post from https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659 apparently

[umbral barn]

did i do it? TwT

[unique cypress]

this is what a throughput graph looks like for depart when empty/full

[unique cypress]

1. I forgot to mention, but you need industrial containers on all platforms - connected with 2 belts to the platform
2. why did you build 2 of them? aren't you only loading one belt in?

[umbral barn]

because i have it setup to load from the ISC :P

[boreal heron]

So the graph shows the round trip Time going down right?

[umbral barn]

isc has two ports

so it needs two balancers

[opaque quartz]

Only one input belt to ISC

[unique cypress]

ISCs on all platforms, one balancer is how I'd do it. but this maybe works?

[opaque quartz]

Two belts between platform and ISC

[umbral barn]

well i mean I can get away with doing just one output since its 600 a min on a 780 but i want the buffer to clear asap

[unique cypress]

RTT is on the horizontal axis, throughput on the vertial. though don't pay much attention to the exact numbers, they depend on multiple factors

[boreal heron]

Oh ok I was looking at the actual throughput values on that graph

[unique cypress]

I wouldn't do it like that, not because I know it doesn't work, but because I've never tested it. I can't say it definitely will or won't work, so feel free to experiment if you want to

[amber umbra]

Those graphs are the theoretical max throughput for one wagon, one train based on round trip time. But you can always scale the number of wagons and number of trains. So I guess it’s useful kinda as a graph.

[unique cypress]

Those numbers are for 2 mk6 belts per platform, one wagon per train, 2 trains, moving items stackable to 100, set to only depart when empty/full

changing anything will change the graph so...

[umbral barn]

well it seems to be working fine for now (god i love my buggy animations)

[boreal heron]

Ah makes sense

[umbral barn]

i have angered the factory gods...

[warm wren]

I had not considered this '10 per' on all final space elevator products would require 7800 coal just for diamonds.

[umbral barn]

game... WHY CANT I SAVE THIS

[unique cypress]

: is not a valid character for a BP name

use - instead

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the : used to be used by the legacy macos as a file path separator

as such, it still exists in a lot of 'check pathname' functions

[umbral barn]

thats a glitch...

[umbral barn]

@unique cypress sorry to bother you but how do i do a 5:3 balancer? ;w;

[wind spade]

5:5 but don't connect two outputs 😄

[unique cypress]

6:4 and loop back

[unique cypress]

with a universal 5:5, it'd work perfectly

unfortunately, they're doing trains so it's not gonna work that well

[unique cypress]

and a 6:4 is 3 2:2s crossed with 2 3:2s

[umbral barn]

uhm the link you sent me doesnt have 6:4

;w;

[umbral barn]

wha?

[unique cypress]

have two 3:2s separated, and then balance their inputs with 2:2s

that is take a 2:2 and connect one output to one 3:2 and the other output to the other 3:2

and repeat for all 3 input pairs

that's a 5:3

[umbral barn]

Hi cthulu... (i dont even know where it ends and where it begins, mom come pick me up im scared)

[quick gorge]

Teehee spicy rocks

[umbral barn]

so basically, connect 2 stations to a 2:2, then take one output connect it to 3:2 and another to 3:2 b, then one of the 3:2s gets looped back into a third 2:2 connected to the last station?

I feel so stupid rn but im trying my best TwT

[unique cypress]

sounds about right

[quick gorge]

If you are aware you are stupid you are far smarter then people who do the same shit ... don't think they are.
Being self aware of stupidity makes you smart :)

[umbral barn]

oh?

also ill be honest with you i never though id be intimated by a fucking conveyor belt

[quick gorge]

Progress is pain? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[umbral barn]

I think i made it..?

is a 2:2 but im just checking TwT

redid it for clarity

[unique cypress]

there you go, a 5:3

[quick gorge]

I was just jumpscared by lines

[umbral barn]

thank you so much you just made my life way easier

[somber estuary]

which calculater do you use for production rate calculations

[unique cypress]

Satisfactory Tools

[somber estuary]

Thanks

[quick gorge]

If you prefer "pen and paper" planning I'd say Modeler.
The pen is a bit dry you need to shake it a little

[umbral barn]

I present: spaghet

[umbral barn]

@unique cypress if its balanced shouldnt each station have the same amount of uranium in it?-

[unique cypress]

yes

[umbral barn]

well uhm...

it isnt

and the incoming rates not the same (it varies between 219 and 222)

[unique cypress]

the differences are likely because of the different belt lengths

filling the platforms completely should fix it?

but a difference of less than a stack isn't that significant