math-and-meta

[amber umbra]

Imo balancer is based on if it does the desired balanced function. Otherwise manifold or just belts.

[unique cypress]

if I pull or feed unequally, it needs to overflow to work how I want it to work

[wind spade]

but its function is (as said by you) "items from any input can end up on any output with equal priority"

not "the above happens always, no matter where you pull from"

[amber umbra]

This example feels like info is missing. Does it only work under back pressure or only with manifold style backed up belts. If you buffer it all then remove the back pressure does it still work. Seems not fully described.

Usually balanced provides balance even when consumption > supply. Ala not backed up belts.

Lots of balancers need to buffer their internal belts fully first.

[unique cypress]

?

I haven't seen a single balancer that doesn't supply equal belts immediately

unless it doesn't supply equal belts at all (then it's questionable if it's even a balancer)

[amber umbra]

Maybe. I usually think of balancers in longer term testing so maybe not a thing.

[unique cypress]

anyway, considering what I know about Factorio and Satisfactory balancers, I'd say the definition has 2 parts:

1. every input is connected to every output
2. when supplied with full input belts, and connected to empty output belts, all i/o belts are utilized equally

[wind spade]

I'd replace "equally" with "in desired ratio"

[unique cypress]

nobody does that in factorio, sorry

[wind spade]

we're in Satisfactory chat tho

[amber umbra]

The in desired ratio part is definitely not a common definition.

[wind spade]

(and yes, people do it in Factorio)

[unique cypress]

do they call it a balancer, tho?

[amber umbra]

It’s almost more stacking multiple balancers for the ratio manipulation.

[wind spade]

well, we're talking about SF definitions, right?

[amber umbra]

It’s all belts. The game is irrelevant.

[wind spade]

Factorio doesn't have "manifolds" either (well, they do, but they don't call it that)

[unique cypress]

do you want the definition for the exact same thing in 2 different games to be different?

[unique cypress]

they do call it that. rarely, but they do

[wind spade]

given manifolds are the exact same thing that isn't called the same, yes

games have their own jargon

[amber umbra]

People use different terms but the mechanics are the same concepts, yea. Manifolds in Factorio are just “its belts”.

[unique cypress]

and I don't think they use a differnt name for that

it's called a manifold whenever it's called a name

[wind spade]

if rare usage of a term is considered, then yes, add "in desired ratio" instead of "equally"

[amber umbra]

Anyway. The above info is good stuff. Now to file this away to tell people they’re wrong at a later date.

[unique cypress]

and because there's considerable overlap between playerbases, having a different definition for something with an already established definition in the other game is not a good idea

[amber umbra]

Just from the word definitions, “balance” is rather descriptive.

[unique cypress]

call it a ratio splitter if it's not equal but still specific and it's fine

because in factorio, it's not a balancer

[amber umbra]

Some name that isn’t balancer seems more what I’d agree with.

Or balancer with additional word.

[unique cypress]

I've been calling them ratio splitters for years

or ratio mergers

because they're always 1:n or n:1

with the n i/o belts being in a certain ratio

so a splitter/merger analogy makes sense

[amber umbra]

What’s the common practical use case for those?

Could see super early prioritization of certain machines for item production when can’t just overproduce trivially.

[unique cypress]

Ratio splitters? I never use them myself and I rarely see them used. Almost always by people who are obsessed with getting the exact amount of items to their machines

[wind spade]

You balance several inputs into two outputs with a X:Y ratio. A balancer in my book

Obviously it's a different category of balancer than true balancers, but it doesn't depend on being filled to work, so not a manifold

[unique cypress]

I have literally never seen this done with more than 1 belt

but sure, it can be a ratio balancer

but then you have to give 3 sets of numbers

[wind spade]

I've used it many times, espeicially in modded factorio

[unique cypress]

input ratios, output ratios, and number of belts

[wind spade]

Input ratio is irrelevant

[unique cypress]

if there's an output ratio, there's an input ratio too

[wind spade]

Since all belts lead to all outputs

Same as your definition

In the factorio classic 4:4 balancer you posted, input ratio doesn't matter, output ratio is 1:1:1:1

[unique cypress]

the input ratio in that one is 1:1:1:1 too

but it doesn't necessarily have to be the case

[wind spade]

No, it works the same no matter what the input ratio is

[unique cypress]

yes

but it'll pull equally from all input belts

[plain rivet]

seems like if the input ratio is 1:1:1:1 the balancer part is a bit unnecessary

[unique cypress]

so the input ratio is 1:1:1:1

but you can make it prioritize one input more

and make it whatever else you want

2:1:1:1

it takes twice as many items from the first as the other 3

just like you can make 2:1:1:1 output ratio, where the first output gets double the others

the output ratio only matters when all the output belts are empty and free to move, and the input ratio only matters when all the inputs are full

which is why I said "equal priority" in my balancer definition

not equal items

[plain rivet]

my only experience with factorio balancers was where the "ratio" was "unbalanced or at least not guaranteed to be balanced" input belts to x number of balanced output belts

so I can't speak to what you seem to be talking about which are not just input to output ratios, but some sort of consumption ratio when there is overflow

[wind spade]

In a recent modded playthrough I did, there was a loop that had 1/3 of the products as output, rest had to be recycled back to keep the loop working. And given the long craft time and such, I didn't want priority splitter where I'd buffer 100s of products on the loopback belt, so I made a balancer that took several inputs and took 1/3 of it to one direction and 2/3 back. In my book that is a balancer with ratio output

[unique cypress]

if there was only one input, I'd call it a 1:2 ratio splitter

if more than one input, I'd call it an 1:2 output ratio n:2 balancer

[craggy zinc]

My powergrid keeps going down and I don't know why

[unique cypress]

I'd suggest going to #1038092680493801533 with that

[wind spade]

Multiple inputs, as per the message above

[frosty zinc]

WTF is with that mess?  Get your stuff into order.

Let me post a picture of one of my coal plants to show you . . .

[unique cypress]

Probably a first time player's coal plant? My first one looked similar

[craggy zinc]

I think it's getting enough coal, I think it's cuz one of the plants is not getting enough water

[frosty zinc]

My first one was a nice clean manifold, but I have autistic-type OCD.

[plain rivet]

probably just need more pumps

i only see about 20

[unique cypress]

better put a /s on that or we're gonna end up with this #1378353850209275904 message again

[plain rivet]

good natured ribbing. don't add more pumps, @craggy zinc . in fact you probably don't need any of the pumps you have. you only need pumps to make water go up, not horizontally. but i'm going to stop spamming this channel with stuff that should be in the help channel

[unique cypress]

yeah, pumps should only be used when going up. you might not need a single one

[trail solar]

hi, is it smarter to focus on the elevator tasks or should i always max my upgrades from each unlocked phase in the hub?

[wind spade]

up to you

what do you need more?

[frosty zinc]

Here is my design on coal power:

See the nice linear pipe.  It is fed from both ends making 1200 water (two Mk2 inputs)

That is 600 water per an input, ensuring no one plant gets water starved.

This is compacted coal, so it only needs 100 per a minute for all of those.  For regular coal it would need a lot more.

[gleaming shuttle]

you might be the first person i've seen choose to burn compacted coal in coal generators

(except as a disposal method for byproduct)

[frosty zinc]

Only because I have so damn much.

I plan to slowly divert it to rocket fuel production over time.

[gleaming shuttle]

reasonable

[frosty zinc]

This compacted coal plant is sipping at the compacted coal, using 100 of the 720 that it is capable of.

[gleaming shuttle]

the chains get complicated pretty quickly if you want to recycle compacted coal byproduct into turbofuel

[dusky dust]

I've done compacted coal in coal gens in the past

It's not my first choice, generally, but if you've got some handy sulfur and want some more power out of your coal, it's nice

[frosty zinc]

I have two plants using compacted, one using regular right now.

Yes, there are a few coal patches with reasonably close sulfur.

This was the one that had the most pretty coal plant.

I should say this one's compacted coal plant is currently capable of 350 compacted coal, but it is fed resources that I could boost higher by adding more assemblers to compact said coal.

And of course overclocking . . .

Overclocking the miners that is.

I've got enough room laid out to do 700 compacted coal, but can boost it to 720 with miner overclocking right now.

[umbral barn]

Should I use all the uranium in the world for uranium fuel rods or will i need to save some of it for plutonium?

[unique cypress]

depends what you want

plutonium can use uranium ore but doesn't have to

[umbral barn]

Well i want to use all my uranium for power and then plutonium gets scrapped/used for drones and vehicles

[unique cypress]

then you don't want to use any uranium ore on plutonium

[languid ember]

You have to burn uranium fuel rods to make plutonium

[umbral barn]

I know, speaking of, I'm assuming the ratio of fuel to waste is 1:1?

[languid ember]

1:50

Plutonium is 1:1

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Uranium_Waste

[umbral barn]

I'm sorry fucking what?

[unique cypress]

1:10

[languid ember]

Thanks

No actually, I’m right

[umbral barn]

WHY IS IT 1:50 😭

NUCLEAR IS ALREADY SCARY ON ITS OWN

[prisma kraken]

wouldn't be a challenge if it weren't, lol

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch plutonium+waste

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=plutonium+waste

[prisma kraken]

its actually not that bad the waste stacks to 500

[unique cypress]

1 rod to 10 waste

[languid ember]

Haha I need a break

[umbral barn]

Well yes but I intend to use all the uranium in the world for power (once I unlock mk 6 belts bc I assume I'm gonna need mk 6 belts)

[languid ember]

I just built that and I wouldn’t want to do it on mk5s

[unique cypress]

I did it in U6 and U8 (yes, twice). it's not that bad. only 200-300ish hours of work

[prisma kraken]

i'd build it in smaller chunks tbh

[languid ember]

Make sure you pick out your alts for both uranium and plutonium

[umbral barn]

This is true but I need the power for it yesterday

*from

[languid ember]

Yeah it was like 1.5 weeks for me

[umbral barn]

Which ones should I use?

[unique cypress]

1.5 weeks??? it took me at least a month

[languid ember]

Well don’t be like me and forget to look at plutonium alts. Like everything, it depends if you want to sink rods or process through plutonium and ficaonium

[unique cypress]

all alts for uranium, all defaults for plutonium

that's max power from uranium and least effort getting rid of the waste

[languid ember]

I used machine block blueprints to save a lot of placement time. I also don’t design architecture (but I’m jealous of those who can)

[unique cypress]

I did it mostly without blueprints but I didn't decorate either

[umbral barn]

I'm using mine for Vehicles and sinking it once it's fully saturated my network (I mainly use drones since the tractors/trucks are way too buggy)

[languid ember]

That’s a lot of radiation! I’m using plutonium just for all my drones feeding the nuke plant with backup fuel into ionized (to maintain throughput speeds)

Err, and full fisconium as well

[languid ember]

Love to see some pics of your nuke setup!

[languid ember]

And also 4/m nuke nobs

[unique cypress]

Here's my U6 setup: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/xtsaa2/ive_just_finished_my_whole_map_uranium_project/

[languid ember]

Very nice

[unique cypress]

don't have any pics of my U8 setup besides all the balancers lol

[languid ember]

I don’t think I’m making full nuclear again!

Yes fun balancers galore. And I load-balanced all the inputs to minimize radiation

[unique cypress]

I'll be making ficsonium after 1.1 drops

but had to make a fucking mod to make what I want to make feasible

[languid ember]

Tell me more…

I have a side-project for the future to try to reduce my sloop # down to vanilla numbers. Slightly cheating right now for ficsonium recycling (think I’m using 113 sloops for the whole map — 60ish for ficsonium). Need to build a whole superposition oscillator factory just to make dark matter and sink the oscillators for more efficient slopped dark matter creation

[unique cypress]

well I wanted max ficsonium without sloops or ore conversion (which would be 152/min if there was enough SAM) + 10 Matrixed augmenters + have enough resources left over for other stuff

but that would require like 25k SAM

and after 10 agumenters, I'd have 3 sloops left

which means it's very impossible

[languid ember]

Yeah I have somewhere over 10 sloops in making reanimated Sam on top of the 60 above

[unique cypress]

so I'm making a mod to add more resource efficient recipes for most T9 stuff

made them more annoying to use to "balance" them a bit

[languid ember]

I did one unnecessary ore conversion just to say I’d done it (swamp copper to bauxite)

I’m considering dropping the alien augmenter too. Big numbers make feel good, but I don’t really need more power than the near-2 TW I have un-augmented

Hey how big do your save files get? Mine is like 26MB now, takes 45s to load

[unique cypress]

I haven't gone that big in 1.0, but that's about where I was in U6 and U8

[umbral barn]

Such as?

[umbral barn]

Well I only use drones to move end products with low thruput to my main storage facility (that's the plan at least, I have drones unlocked but don't have rcus automated)

[unique cypress]

There's 1 default 1 alt for every item from uranium ore to Plutonium rods. From uranium ore to rods, all alts, from uranium waste to plut rods, all defaults

[umbral barn]

Should I use the alt for magnetic control rods as well?

[unique cypress]

I'm only talking about the uranium ore to rods chain

Everything else has no bearing on uranium efficiency, and that's what you were asking about

You could use alts for Plutonium Cells and Rods too, and you'd get more, but if you're sinking them, you don't need more and it'd just cost more for no reason

[ruby shoal]

I'm a little confused in this situation. Looking at the highlighted path, I need to convert 60 plates in 3 lines, to 60 plates in 2 lines.

I was going to do this with a manifold, but I remembered 3:2 line balancers exist. Truthfully, I've never used those kinds of balancers. Is there any reason to pick a balancer over a manifold in this situation?

[unique cypress]

First of all, I suggest you don't use Satisfactory Calculator's Production Planner, and especially not in realistic mode. I suggest using Satisfactory Tools instead

As for your actual question, if you can fit all plates on one belt, there's very little reason to do a balancer. Also, what SCIM did is not a balancer.

[ruby shoal]

Duly noted. I will be switching to Satisfactory Tools! Though I'm kind of curious why you suggest it over SCIM?

And gotcha, that makes pretty good sense I guess! I was wondering when you'd even need a ratio balancer, but I guess when you aren't able to fit the total input on one belt is the answer. Thank you very much!

And by 3:2 balancer, I was meaning something like this

[unique cypress]

SCIM's planner deals poorly with alt recipes. When selecting multiple recipes for one item, it just chooses one at random. Satisfactory Tools chooses based on average resource cost. It might not always be what you want, but it's closer than the random choices that SCIM makes.

SCIM also can't calculate some recipe chains, namely Diluted Packaged Fuel and the recycling loop.

I've also seen it make mistakes, especially in realistic mode

[unique cypress]

Do note that when managing multiple belts I always use a balancer, but it's not like you need to. It's just that other options require more work. At least for me, because I know how to build balancers.

[ruby shoal]

Ah, I've never run into issues with that so far, but I haven't used many alternate recipes. I've only found that I just search for the recipie I want to use and tell it, and then it'll work it out.

I prefer it over Satisfactory Tools because I like the realistic mode. Tools' production view feels a little too simplistic.

[unique cypress]

Well, ideally you'd manage your own items. Tools' purpose is to do the math for you, but not the logistics. The realistic mode in SCIM sometimes makes splits that wouldn't work without a smart splitter, but it doesn't tell you to use one

[ruby shoal]

I'm a little confused on what you mean? You say 'always' use it, but also that I don't need to? I would've thought manifolds are the easiest, most simple options, and you should only use the ratio balancers when your throughput is more than your max belt, right?

[unique cypress]

I always use balancers when managing multiple belts of one item. The belts go to manifolds. Because manifolds can easily handle up to one belt of items, and after that things get difficult

[ruby shoal]

Oh, yeah that makes sense. I've found I still have to do a considerable amount of logistics with SCIM, especially in figuring out how to actually implement it into the world. I'll be wary of that though, thank you.

[unique cypress]

Also, this is just a balancer, not a ratio balancer

[ruby shoal]

I think I'm still kind of stuck on this one. You're talking about having multiple belts of one item from various places of production? Because the area I was thinking about using it in is just coming off of a few constructors.

Also my bad! I called it a ratio balancer to differentiate it from load balancing. Made sense in my head

[unique cypress]

I'm talking about multiple total belts. Imagine having to deal with 310 iron ingots/min with only mk2 belts available (120/min). You can't fit all that on one, you need at least 3. And then I need those ingots in different places, 150 for plates, 90 for rods and 70 for screws (not realistic numbers but just an example). That requires 10.(3) smelters, so I'd build 11, 4 on one belt, 4 on the second and 3 on the last. Giving me 120, 120, and 90. Then a 3:4 balancer. 2 belts go to plates, 1 to rods and 1 for screws. The balancer sends 82.5 down each belt at first, but eventually some of them will fill up, sending the excess to the one that's still missing items (rods). Eventually that one backs up as well, and the smelters throttle down to produce 110, 110, and 90, while the machines making plates, rods and screws get what they need

[unique cypress]

The definitions of balancing in this community are inconsistent. I just use Factorio definitions, which are properly established in that community

Load balancing is more of an action than an actual build (there are no "load balancers"). For that, both regular balancers and ratio splitters/mergers/balancers can be used. Or setup that aren't even balancers, involving belt limiters

It's all messed up and I feel like trying to systemize it is just a fool's errand

[ruby shoal]

This is exactly the explanation I needed! Maybe I'm stupid, but putting it into actual context is so insanely helpful in understanding that concept, and and really appreciate you taking the time to actually write it out! Thank you a ton!

[ruby shoal]

I totally see what you're saying here, I've noticed too that titles are fairly inconsistant. It sucks because I want to be able to properly refer to things when asking for help, but I worry about muddying what I'm trying to say lol

[unique cypress]

Glad I could help. If you have any more questions, feel free to DM them to me. I'm going to sleep soon and if you post them here, I'm probably gonna miss them if there's a lot of activity before I get to reply.
GN

[ruby shoal]

Oh, thank you for the offer! I'll try not to disturb you too much then. Goodnight!

[brisk urchin]

Hi! I've come to a problem with my coal generator grid i want to expand, so previusly 7 generators powered my whole grid with about 750 MW and just to be safe i made an isolated network with 3 coal generators (were 2 before) wich powered the supply for the main grid (those 7)
now i wanted to add another 8 coal generators because yeah.... i got plans and i need way more power, so i placed them, hooked them up to a coal mine and i think 4 or 5 water extractors

my problem was that my isolated powering circuit kept burning the fuse because of water supply issues and i tried and tried to fix it by myselfe, my friend said i should just let it be because i am geting to litle power to supply the isolated circuit and make a new grid at a better place

would the water problem be solved by just adding water tanks inbetween? i mean like they would act like capacitors in a circuit

if i think about it

[fallow siren]

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[wind spade]

No, buffers practically never help

[vapid gorge]

show over head images of your set up. And no buffers won't help here

[fallow siren]

buffer doesnt help anything bcs the flow is still limited with your pipe

you want 2nd pipe if you try to send more than 300/min

unless you have mk2 pipe which double the capacity

[brisk urchin]

thanks guys for the quick support but im at wor atm :(

[vapid gorge]

whenever you get back to the game get those images 🙂 people will be on

[brisk urchin]

thx!

[brisk urchin]

and no i dont think the waterflow is the problem

i did the math that should be alright

[vapid gorge]

it's almost certainly a throughput error or a small math mistake. It's pretty common

[fallow siren]

did u try to send more than 300/min in mk1?

[brisk urchin]

i underclocked them so that they add together 300

[fallow siren]

what about headlift?

[brisk urchin]

about 3 to 4 pumps per pipe

no

2 or once 3 i think

[fallow siren]

k, ill just wait for the pic later, hard to tell

[brisk urchin]

yep, ik

[brisk urchin]

oh and "later" is in aproximitly 10h

lol

[fierce ruin]

Just suggesting, if you want to make a semi efficient power plant for coal generators using MK1 pipes, I suggest just running 2 extractors into 4 generators, where you'll use 60 coal/m, and 180m^3/m. The excess water should be about 60l, so you can, once the circuit is filled, store the excess in a fluid buffer at the end of the pipeline system in case something ever happens. if you use a MK1 drill on a normal node, you'll supply exactly, or if you drill a pure node, you can send the extra 60 using a splitter to another connection of 4 generators and 2 extractors. In the end, you technically use more extractors than the schematic but it's one of the few ways to easily make it work without the game throwing temper tantrums at random moments. If you use the schematic and it doesn't work, try the third option on the schematic using pumps to push the water away from the centre pipe, so only the water from the centre extractor touches that pipe, then get's evenly distributed without overloading the MK1 pipes

[fierce ruin]

Just in case you can't figure it out

[wind spade]

It's not liters, it's m³

And also, 8:3 works fine

[fierce ruin]

bruh. the numbers are the same, and I'm unduly impressed I remembered the numbers

[fierce ruin]

for me, it chucks hissy fits about how much it uses and stops a generator or two, sometimes all of them

[wind spade]

Did you put all through one pipe?

[fierce ruin]

split into two like ex. 3

[wind spade]

Enough headlift? Prefilled before use?

[fierce ruin]

the game just decided to uninstall physics and logic itself with me and liquids

[fierce ruin]

The water was above the generators anyway due to my lovely ability to spaghettify my factory and simply not care how it looked, so they were semi submerged

[wind spade]

And prefilled?

No buffers?

[timber finch]

overclock your power plants, this way one coal power plant will use about 112m3/min of water and can be supplied by a single water extractor (or alternatively, have one 200% overclocked extractor supply 2 power plants)

[vapid gorge]

early on, when you're using coal gens, you likely don't have a ton of shards to spare. All it does is save you space. So unless you're using cheats to spawn more in you're probably better off using them elsewhere

[brisk urchin]

i am well supplied with shards, i boosted all of my previus 7 with one and a single one with 2

[brisk urchin]

no i want to make it even bigger so the schematic wouldnt realy help all that much, also i was boosting a t2 miner 2 times for just supplying the isolated circuid and the suppliance for the main 7 generators

[fierce ruin]

That's why I suggested the semi efficient way of 2 for 4

[fierce ruin]

on a pure vein or a normal vein?

If assuming pure, that one, unless you have t4 coveyors, wouldn't do much at 200%

[wind spade]

3:8 is less materials 🙂

[brisk urchin]

i think its normal and either the other 2 are also normal or one is impure

[fierce ruin]

so about 120 from 2 and 60 from one, then I assume you overclocked the impure?

[brisk urchin]

yep

all of em, oh and i just remembered

one is pure

but that one i wouldve hooked up to the new 8

so its not in use

[fierce ruin]

so about 480 in 3 miners, which without t3 I believe will cap at 360

oh, so 240

[brisk urchin]

i got t3 conveyr and t2 miner

no so, the coal isnt the problem, the coal can flow consistandly

[fierce ruin]

excellent, that'll supply an easy 32 generators

[brisk urchin]

water is the issue

[fierce ruin]

and water consumption is 45 per gen

[brisk urchin]

nope, i charged them all once

[fierce ruin]

which roughly works out to a 1:2 ratio with 30 spare

[brisk urchin]

so 68

[fierce ruin]

which'll mean that it'll be just over 1:2, so you'll probably have to do a 7:4 ratio

which'll have a sizeable excess

[brisk urchin]

okay i think we stop here, weve come a bit away from the real problem

even i am not 100% sure what it was anymore

ima check up again after work

[vapid gorge]

@cosmic stratus

blue for fresh water, red for waste.

all you need to do is clock it right

[cosmic stratus]

aight i’ll play around with over clocks too

ty :3

[cosmic stratus]

kay so after a bit of creative thinking, worked like a charm tysm

[vapid gorge]

No stress. It’s the most reliable method of processing by product that’s part of the chain

Works in later systems in the nuclear chain and dark matter too

[cosmic stratus]

yea, i had 6 alumina refs so i made the two in the middle underclocked and overed the others

sadly since i had 840 water i had to split it into two separate pipe systems tho, still looks rlly clean :3

[fallow siren]

as long as the math right, you can completely separate waste and fresh

[timber finch]

Power shards are a non-issue as soon as you have somersloops and production multiplier (which you should probably already have when setting up coal). Just make sure to always use somersloops when making power shards, you will have plenty for your power plants

[vapid gorge]

in case you haven't or for future ones, I highly keeping fluids like this in very seperate units. Like processing 1 node of bauxite just within it's own little group and not linking it to others

[cosmic stratus]

i’ll keep that in mind ^w^

[vapid gorge]

no stress 🙂 it's generally good to do it because it simplifies systems and simple = good in pipes, as well as making it much easier to trouble shoot small sections rather than big interconnected systesm

[cosmic stratus]

tru that, plus it can look more impressive lol

[faint oracle]

bro's got like 660 mw of launchers 💀

[cinder silo]

I ran so many cannon experiments during early access, it was all to write the book on transport like this one #math-and-meta message

Here is one of the cannon yards where experiments were run, physics was broken and notes taken #satisfactory-experimental message , it let me get a lot of numbers, but UE5 invalidated a lot of it alas.

I really need to build a new cannon yard and start writing a new book tbh 🙂

[faint oracle]

have you made a hydron collider or whatever thats called yet

[cinder silo]

Not yet, I always had issues with cyclotron style designs due to my save at the time being massive and performance issues made their use rather iffy.

[faint oracle]

lol, ur not the tunnel rat, you are the hypertube rat

[cinder silo]

Back in UE4, this structure was needed for turbo cannons due to physics #design-and-architecture message , UE5 seems to capture you far better rendering a velocity brake needless.

[cinder silo]

Don't count the tunnels out yet, this is an intersection between all the worlds bauxite, crossing most of the worlds sam ore in a tunnel #screenshots message

[faint oracle]

but there's hypertubes in those tunnels! you are the hypertube rat lmao

[cinder silo]

They're not cannons though, just logistics tunnel travel.

[umbral barn]

How should I do fuel distribution for my drone network?

[faint oracle]

its still a hypertube lol

[cinder silo]

Cannons, I've learned to my cost are heavily performance linked, the bigger the save, the worse the cannon will perform.

And my saves tend to be huge 😦

[faint oracle]

ooo

[cinder silo]

I ran a whole lot of performance experiments, and inter-biome cannons lost all their speed within a few hundred metres.

[umbral barn]

Also is there an optimal distance i should use drones over trains for?

[cinder silo]

I'd honestly say it's a throughput thing, if you're moving smaller amounts, any distance, the drone will win out, for larger stuff, trains scale way better.

[umbral barn]

Well I'm mainly asking since I'm using plutonium to fuel my drone network and want to know how i should distribute the rods through the network, also I've never done anything with drones before so idk what to expect

[cinder silo]

Here's an example, #design-and-architecture message , loading is enforced in UE5, which forces slowness in even a modest cannon, and it slows down as well as stopping to load.

[cinder silo]

Oh eck, that is outside of my experience as far as fuel usage goes, those imho would be for long range travel but I don't know how long each rod will last, weather or not you'll have a backlog or shortfall, I just haven't used them for that.

[languid ember]

That’s tricky because the unlocks require circuit boards, unless you’re creatively raiding crash sites

[umbral barn]

Well if I have a backlog that's fine, it'll get sinked since I don't intend to use ficsonium

[faint oracle]

"modest" i have a cannon from my caterium to my base and its only 7 entrances

and it runs fine

[cinder silo]

Fair enough, I'd personally sink them and not worry about the rad-haz, I just don't have the experience to offer anything more than just an opinion.

[umbral barn]

Well considering that even in the cyber wagon you can still run it for 2.7 hours with one rod its for the efficiency

And the drone ports are out of the way and I have auto iodine filters I don't super care about radiation

I have a million filters in storage so I really don't think radiation will be an issue

Plus I'd rather not do anything with fluids where I can because this games liquid system genuinely makes me wanna cry

[cinder silo]

I found the speed test that doesn't hit the "load" stop, the slowdown is actually visible, speed just bleeds off after a time, this was using 12 stages.

[umbral barn]

Unless there's some way to do ficsonium where I'll still be able to actually build other things

[faint oracle]

would be kinda annoying but you could use autohotkey to make a script to change view distance with a keybind ( like make it press esc, press the coordinates of where the settings are and change the view distance up and down

to make using hypertubes less laggy

[cinder silo]

To be honest, I'll just sink the PU rods and be done with it, I already have a colossal amount of power generation, pre-nuclear, I don't need to burn plutonium.

[umbral barn]

Well i only have ~40 k of power generation
(I have 1800 fuel being burned a minute and even then it still has its issues with generators randomly stopping despite my best attempts to balance it and simplify it as much as I can this games liquid mechanics just don't like me)

[umbral barn]

And 480 coal

:P

Plus my apas

[faint oracle]

"only" 😭 me just sitting afk with a tiny factory with 5000mw instead of building a huge factory

[cinder silo]

Ahh, I have 1.1Tw, I haven't mined uranium with the exception of a tiny amount to make a handful of nukes.

[umbral barn]

If it weren't for how ridiculously fucking expensive ficsonium is i would go for that but like, I like having other factories around my world

[cinder silo]

This place, it comprises of three towers that each use the shown plan.

[umbral barn]

Tiny factory isn't an option for me (I'm practically at the end of the game, just haven't moved to phase 5 yet)

[umbral barn]

laughs in i don't have rocket fuel

And again fuck the fluids

I genuinely hate this games fluid system so much

[faint oracle]

y e s

[cinder silo]

Rocket fuel being a gas really doesn't care about lift and all the problems that brings.

[faint oracle]

Yeah, like i put 4 pumps on a short pipe, basically nothing comes through

[umbral barn]

It's not the lift thing, i build my pipes on flat foundations, and i have it all hooked up on mk 1 pipes that are maxed out in terms of thruput going into a 6 generator manifold w/a loop back pipe and yet for some reason some of the generators still run out

I BALANCED IT OUT AND FOR SOME REASON IT STILL DOESN'T WORK

[cinder silo]

Hmm, I'd need to see the setup, plumbing is famously finnicky.

[umbral barn]

And I copied this exact same setup 5 times, some of them work perfectly fine, but others don't

They are carbon copies of eachother

[cinder silo]

That sounds like the underside of my bauxite refinery, all twenty clusters are identical, yet one decides to backup on alumina solution, I don't have a valid answer there.

[umbral barn]

This isn't bauxite tho, this is oil 😭

Mainly my HOR into diluted fuel setup

The blenders all run at 100%

[cinder silo]

I know, same issue still though, liquids being liquids.

[faint oracle]

btw where are the 1.1 patchnotes, i wanna know what's new

[umbral barn]

it'll copme out with 1.1

-.-

[faint oracle]

;-:

[timber finch]

"creatively raiding crash sites" is probably what I've been doing indeed.
I built a hypertube cannon and randomly raided a bunch of crash sites as soon as I got the parachute

[faint oracle]

do you know what time it'l release?

[umbral barn]

sometime today

[timber finch]

due to time zone differences I think it would be afternoon / evening in europe so in a few hours

[faint oracle]

its 2pm 4 me rn

[timber finch]

yeah its now 2pm in central europe summer time

[umbral barn]

well from what ive been told it'll be between hopefully 3-5 pm :P

[faint oracle]

yay :P

[timber finch]

which sweden follows afaik

[wind spade]

Pumps don't increase throughput

[faint oracle]

bruh

[umbral barn]

yeah they just limit flow direction and deal with headlift

i use them as valve substitutes bc fuck valves they dont work as advertised

[wind spade]

Pumps are just to add headlift

[cinder silo]

Oh yeah, speaking of crash sites, I forgot about being able to dismantle them.

[faint oracle]

lmao i dont even know how high the base 10m of output headlift r

[faint oracle]

you can dismantle them?????

[wind spade]

Don't ever need valves

[timber finch]

its like 2 4m foundations and a bit

[cinder silo]

In 1.1 yeah.

[wind spade]

And don't need pumps if not going up

[umbral barn]

2 4m foundations and 2 1 m foundations

[timber finch]

problem is that finding the starting point of these 10m is a bit tricky

[faint oracle]

btw how exactly do you make sure an enemy doesnt spawn anymore?

[umbral barn]

Build

[timber finch]

I think if you build anything close to their spawn point they stop spawning

doesn't even need to cover the spawn point, next to it is enough, not sure how much though

[faint oracle]

i have a bunch of conveyors near a crashsite but the enemies keep spwaning

[timber finch]

try foundations

[wind spade]

Need a powered building afaik

[cinder silo]

It needs to be a powered machine, even a connected biomass generator will do.

[timber finch]

good to know

[faint oracle]

thx

[timber finch]

does it work with power pylons?

[cinder silo]

No, must be a machine.

[faint oracle]

if i have 240 iron rods a minute, how many constructors making screws do i need to make the most rotors?

[umbral barn]

i have a pic with all the problem generators marked if you would like to see

[cinder silo]

Go right ahead.

My current power station has 720 generators, it is running smoothly 😁

[faint oracle]

nvm figured it out, using half of my rods to make screws and using 5 constructors, isnt completely efficient, but is the best with 240 rods per minute

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=7hJLmE45uBonivlvWMNQ

[wind spade]

Can definitely make more, see link above

[faint oracle]

ty

[faint oracle]

ty

[flint crystal]

Might be a silly question. biggest power plant I ever made was rocket fuel giving me like 65k power. Was planning on a big build, 480-500k with rocket fuel. How do people make these huge plants when there's not enough sulfur on the planet ?

[unique cypress]

there's like 10k sulfur available

almost 11k

and for rocket fuel, the first limit is actually nitrogen

[flint crystal]

Oh, guess this google result was incorrect..

[flint crystal]

I believe I have enough Nitrogen for my build already, grabbed 2 nodes giving me a total of 3900

[vapid gorge]

Also, use nuclear. Much easier

[unique cypress]

Eaiser???

[vapid gorge]

I don't know why people have strokes over the nuclear recipes. The base recipes are very simple

[unique cypress]

more interesting is the only benefit I can give nuclear

[vapid gorge]

even the non base recipes are pretty straight forward.

[unique cypress]

the uranium ore to rod chain is easy, sure

[vapid gorge]

and instead of 1000 stupid fuel gens you can put down 100 nuclear instead

[unique cypress]

but you cannot tell me this is easier than RF

[vapid gorge]

easier than putting down a million fuel gens, yes

[unique cypress]

blueprints?

[vapid gorge]

so? you can blueprint the nuclear stuff too

[crimson moat]

fuel gens are really easy, especially in 1.1

[unique cypress]

nitro rocket is literally just 3 steps

4 if you count the gens too

[crimson moat]

yeah nitro rocket and just a fuel gen blueprint is by far the easiest way to make 100 or 200 gw and finish the game on that

it's expensive, but it's simple and fast, and its expense isn't a roadblock to game completion.

[flint crystal]

Not me saving up 8 big containers of motors xD

Yeah I am not going nuclear. Maybe once I finish the game

[crimson moat]

Also have to point out that uranium produces 20x as much waste and like half of the power of plutonium, so if you're going nuclear you should probably go at least that far.

[flint crystal]

Right now I am at 27k max power of which 5k is spare, so going nuclear wouldn't even be a possibility

[crimson moat]

for X amount of power, 50 containers of plutonium waste will last you as long as 1500-2000 containers of uranium waste

[crimson moat]

you can, via batteries or modular design (:

[flint crystal]

For that you need to be good at planning, I can't even properly plan a 100 motor/min factory

[crimson moat]

but rocket fuel is superior IMO, you need it anyway for jetpack and vehicle fuel

[brisk urchin]

i am online now

[brisk urchin]

is that how you supress mob spawning?

[gleaming shuttle]

uranium isnt too complicated to set up if youre not using any efficiency-boosting alts

[dusky dust]

Everything you build has a point value which contributes to supressing mob respawns in the area, but powered buildings contribute much more than unpowered ones

Though I think technically enough of any buildable should eventually do the trick, powered or not

[brisk urchin]

ah, so by supressing we do still mean to jusat stop spawning

[crimson moat]

It creates a ridiculous amount of waste, though. 1 ISC per hour per 100GW.

Plutonium is at like 0.03 ISC's per hour per 100GW.

[dusky dust]

I don't think anyone's dug deeply enough to know the exact values or formulae, etc

[brisk urchin]

and not spawning elsewhere

[dusky dust]

Yeah, respawns for that specific spawnpoint would be disabled

You'd still have to kill the creatures that one final time, but then they wouldn't come back from that spawnpoint

Each spawn's considered independently

[brisk urchin]

mk i thought i could make a massive minecraft mob supressor LOL

[dusky dust]

A couple of online Power Storages is generally enough to do it

[prisma kraken]

small numbers thing i just realized; there's a lot of clusters around the map of 2100 ore/min... 2100 = 780+780+270+270

[gleaming shuttle]

pretty sure thats a coincidence

though tbf i dont know why they chose 780 specifically

i also dont think that specific combination is all that common?

[brisk urchin]

my friend said that this i sbad math and this would not work

[unique cypress]

?

[brisk urchin]

the schematic

[brisk urchin]

those

[unique cypress]

the 3 diragrams are all correct

you just need a mk2 belt up to a certain point

idk why would anyone think they wouldn't work

[prisma kraken]

the belt speeds in the game are all designed to be the max you'd need at specific stages of the game

except for the 270 belt which is an oddball, they're all multiples of 60/min why the 780 belt is 780 is to accommodate a lot of screws. why the 270 belt is its size is to accomodate a decent amt of cat ore or limestone production with the base recipes. Additionally, they're picked to be interesting prime multiples of 60 so that combinations of belts can get you to different rates

i think the 780 belt may also have been sort of an artifact of dev problems getting a 1200 belt to work at correct speed

[umbral barn]

so I'm starting to put the nuclear plant down and uhm, to put it bluntly.. where do i put this fuckin thing? like whats the best location?

[unique cypress]

the reactors? above water. the rod factory? wherever is convenient for you

[umbral barn]

well i mean like where do i build the plant

[brisk urchin]

i have t3 belt and t1 pipe about to be t4 and t2

at my previus setup with 7 generators i needed about 6 water extractors just for it to barely work

(they were all overclocked)

[brisk urchin]

i know

it still didnt work for me somehow

[unique cypress]

probably because for 2.5 times the water you need 2.5 times the piping?

[brisk urchin]

no just 50 % more

only one shard per

[unique cypress]

setups 1 and 2 would still work at 150%

[brisk urchin]

no i didnt have any schematics when i built those

i just did it out of my head and imagined it would work

[unique cypress]

I always put mine over the northwestern ocean

[umbral barn]

where?-

[brisk urchin]

on the desert map?

[unique cypress]

north-west corner of the map

[umbral barn]

so up by the rocky desert?

[brisk urchin]

oh its all the same map

[torpid iris]

i need a plumber to look at my... plumbing

[plain rivet]

let's keep it clean

[opaque quartz]

Make a thread #1038092680493801533

[torpid iris]

aight will do in a minute

[opaque quartz]

Be as detailed as possible and include screenshots

[wind spade]

why wouldn't it?

[opaque quartz]

I build my nuke plants out on a platform over the ocean off the coast of the swamp and put the water extractors directly underneath

[brisk urchin]

because water is not sufficient aparently and it doesnt work as smoth as you would bring coal to the geneartors

[umbral barn]

how should i move the uranium tho?-

like do i use belts? trains, drones? idk what im doing

[unique cypress]

trains or drones

depends on the distance and amount

[wind spade]

it is sufficient? 3 extractors make 3x120 = 360 water, 8 gens need 8x45=360 water

[brisk urchin]

i need to pump the water upwards with like 3 pumps

would that make a diffrence?

[wind spade]

no

[umbral barn]

well im moving 2100 uranium to one spot either on the swamp, or like you said on the nw beach

[wind spade]

you still make 360 water and consume 360 water

[umbral barn]

depends on which has better caterium/sulfur access

[brisk urchin]

yeah it doesnt work somehown

[unique cypress]

when I did that, I had a single train that stopped at all nodes

[opaque quartz]

Then you have a build issue

[wind spade]

make a #1038092680493801533 post with images of what "doesn't work"

[brisk urchin]

i have 6 water extractors for 7 generators at the moment and if im not careful the fuse will blwo from time to time

[umbral barn]

and it had perfect thruput?

[brisk urchin]

i dont know if that would help me out now because i already quit the idea of adding another 8 as i had this idea previusly

[umbral barn]

how many cars did it have?

[brisk urchin]

im just now making a new grid at the other side of the map with 20 generators

and 10 water extractors

[wind spade]

the setups on wiki work just fine, so if you have issues, it's most likely piping issue

[unique cypress]

Yes? Trains can move however may items you want them to

[wind spade]

and I'd recommend sticking to the 3:8 ratio

[brisk urchin]

probably yeah, i just dont understand why

[wind spade]

which is why I asked you to share images 🙂

[brisk urchin]

ill do that now

i can even vc if u like

[wind spade]

no, just share screenshots

[brisk urchin]

k

[umbral barn]

well yeah but i mean like i want the incoming rate to be 2100/min

[brisk urchin]

in a minute

[opaque quartz]

Make a thread in #1038092680493801533

[umbral barn]

my wholedesign hinges on it being perfect

[unique cypress]

you just need a train setup capable of moving at least 2100/min, and if you feed it 2100, it'll move 2100

[opaque quartz]

You’ll want one train platform per input belt. Buffer with ISCs and double belts at both load and unload

[brisk urchin]

the main grid with the 7 genrators ( clocked to 150)

[wind spade]

make #1038092680493801533 thread

[brisk urchin]

water piping system ( those pipes between the pipes i did temporarely because one of them kept lacking of water supply)

[wind spade]

yeah remove the connection

[brisk urchin]

3 isolated generators to supply the main ones with water and coal

and all of my water extractors ( 4 of them i planed to use for the new 8 for the main grid but now they are not in use)

[umbral barn]

ohhh

[brisk urchin]

i have 2 coal mines under this platform, one for each circuit

i am here on the map

both mines are impure but that doesnt matter because im not lacking of coal

[wind spade]

don't connect multiple setups together. Do separate 3:8 modules

[umbral barn]

pretty organized despite not being on foundations, im impressed

[brisk urchin]

nono i didnt connect anything

[umbral barn]

but please put that shit on foundation it will make your life easier

[brisk urchin]

i have 2 for the 3

and the others for the 7

no 1 for the 3 i think, idk

[brisk urchin]

i live of being able to see the whole system and how it works in real time

thats why im struggling rn ig because the inbetween pipes make everything messy and at the same time work somehow

[brisk urchin]

foundation?

u mean like concreet floor?

[umbral barn]

yes

[brisk urchin]

i did that here

[opaque quartz]

How much water does each extractor produce?
How much water can each pipe carry?
How much water does each generator consume?

[brisk urchin]

ive did the math

so much times, a friend helped me and said its best to just make a 1 to 1 ratio

because the water is insufficient aparently

which part of i believe more and more

[brisk urchin]

ive clocked them all to 150 and i got like 6

[opaque quartz]

I see you finally made a thread, shall we take the conversation over there?

[brisk urchin]

runing for 7 geneartors

[brisk urchin]

yep lol

[jovial creek]

@slender sandal surely that first splityter which is recieving the full 50 will split it into 2 25/m. hence the first recieves the 25 while the next 12.5 and so on. which will still result in the system balancing out to 10 however its not as u described where the first recieves 50, then overflows and next 40 etc.

im not saying this is correct however i want to know why my logic is flawed

[magic turret]

hi guys, quick question. if i have a factory that uses all the ores that i'm mining from some nodes, but it's fairly far from them and i didn't want to use conveyor highways, is there a way for me to use trains while still maintaining the full input of the nodes and not cause any blocks in the factory because of missing ores?

[cerulean stratus]

Putting a container behind the wagons

So that when the train stops it doesn't block

[slender sandal]

as long as the time it takes for the train to make a round trip is less than the time it takes for your factory to consume a full train load of ores, and you have buffer containers like mentioned above, it will be fine

and if it takes longer for the train to make that round trip, add more trains

[cinder silo]

Those throughput monitors are cool and all, it at least confirms I'm actually getting 1200 ingots, per line 😄

[summer flare]

If you want a 1 to 5 way split this splitter/merger assembly will do it.

[fierce ruin]

whats the best recipe for circuit boards

[oblique hollow]

Depends on your needs

All if them are decent at doing circuit boards, depending on what you hav3 available

[fierce ruin]

what about computers, is it also the rule for those?

[opaque quartz]

This is true for all recipes

There is no “best,” they exist to give you options

[oblique hollow]

Every recipe does stuff differently.
Asking if any one recipe is better than another is usually pointless.

You must think of recipe combinations

[unique cypress]

you'd need to define some metric and evaluate all the recipes in that metric to be able to decide on a "best"

[oblique hollow]

Some go by resource efficiency.

But not everyone does

Some prioritize usage of resources near them

So they dont have to bring in stuff from far away

[unique cypress]

I usually go for the most resource efficient recipes, but it has a specific definition in this context: resources are valued based on how many are available on the map. But it doesn't take into account that some resources might be better saved for other items, especially when trying to max something out

[ruby shoal]

I need to make a 5:2 balancer but I've only found this diagram for a 2:5, the opposite of what I'm looking for. Does anyone know if this will work if I just build it backwards? Obviously swapping out splitters for mergers and vice versa.

[oblique hollow]

Reverse everything?

That should in theory just work

But balancing 5 lines is kinda odd. How did you land in that situation

[unique cypress]

do note that this is a bottlenecked balancer. depending on what you want, it might not work

[cinder silo]

I found a youtube series on balancer design, bear with me, I'll chuck a link.

[ruby shoal]

5 constructors producing 40 screws each needing to feed into two assembler making Rotors, totalling 8 Rotors/min

[cinder silo]

Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPE-BAlg0xA&list=PLQo-FPWWaZE-jn38NUxfxh5S2VyJNjnO3&index=4 , already on the 1>5 video in the playlist.

[ruby shoal]

I'm a little curious what you mean by it's bottlenecked, do you think it will be an issue?

[oblique hollow]

Just split the output of one of the constructors in half

[unique cypress]

Hmm I wonder how bad it is....

the SF community is terrible at designing balancers for some reason

[cinder silo]

I used the video guides a long time back as a basis for my 1-100 balancer for 100 reactors when going radiation free.

[ruby shoal]

That's what I was going to do, but this seemed like the right place to use a balancer. Is it not?

[oblique hollow]

Each rotor assembler needs 100 screws if i remember right

Thats 2.5 screw constructors

You just split the output of one Constructor in half and then merge that half with 2 constructors each.
And you are done

The balancer is a lot more bloated and complex of a solution

[unique cypress]

in the top right, you have one belt going into a splitter being split into 3 outputs. the total input to the balancer is up to 2 belts. but the top 3 outputs cannot have more than one belt among them, because that'll overload the belt feeding them

[ruby shoal]

Ah, so it'll only work going from 2:5 then, not the other way around?

[unique cypress]

It doesn't even fully work when going 2:5

I mean it does, but only if you want roughly equal outputs

But getting equal outputs is not the only purpose of a balancer

I just noticed it's even worse lmao

I don't think it can even handle 2 full belts of input.

Only 1.(6) total

[ruby shoal]

Alright, I guess I can do this instead. This is the more rational choice and it's what I was going to do first, but I thought this situation was what balancers were for lol

[unique cypress]

See my previous statement

This thing is an offence to balancers

[oblique hollow]

Not every nail needs a jackhammer to be hammered in.

A balancer is definitely a jackhammer in this case

(Possibly more fitting statement considering jackhammers arent even for hammering nails)

[unique cypress]

I mean I'd use a balancer in this case. But that's me. Balancers are most useful when the numbers involved are uneven and/or inconvenient

[fierce ruin]

hello all, how would you optimise this 4:5 balancer for space?

[unique cypress]

You could shorten it by 5 m by moving both mergers down 4 m, rotating the left one 90° left and moving the bottom splitter up 1 m

Also, this is not a 4:5 balancer, it's a 4:5 ratio splitter

[fierce ruin]

oh yeah i get confused between balancers and ratio splitters

thanks

[fierce ruin]

i cant imagine the size of that thing

my 1 to 10 could be made smaller but it looks so pretty

[opaque quartz]

You could also just overclock your screw constructor to 250% (40*2.5 = 100) and use one per assembler

[cinder silo]

The 1-100 forms the glass spine running along the ceiling of this place #design-and-architecture message , here's the 1-100 on scim (naked) #design-and-architecture message

[fierce ruin]

would anyone wanna recommend a certain way i should go about circuits, as theres 3 different recipes and im not really restricited on anything

[opaque quartz]

Which recipe seems most suitable for your situation? Based on location and resources?

[fierce ruin]

Well i dont know where i wanna build

[opaque quartz]

Look at what resources the different recipes need and see if you can find a suitable location

BTW you don’t need to make circuit boards as an end product, they are only used as an intermediary

[fierce ruin]

i was thinking polymer resin with fuel as a byproduct, to plastic then caterium circuit boards then circuit boards into caterium computers

turn the fuel into like turbo fuel or rocket fuel

[unique cypress]

Default oil processing recipes are extremely inefficient FYI

[vapid gorge]

a huge part of choosing recipes is looking at locations simultaneously.

what planner are you using?

[fierce ruin]

none

[unique cypress]

you can cut the oil costs by up to 78%

[vapid gorge]

here, turn off SAM ore and then change recipes around https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[opaque quartz]

I like the silicone alts personally

[fierce ruin]

i forgot i made this

[opaque quartz]

But I had set up silicon and quartz production early on with a train route to it so logistically it was easy to build my entire electronics chain on top of it

HSC/AI Limiter/oscillators/RCUs/etc

[vapid gorge]

ok so figure out what you want your final output to be first

[slender sandal]

I prefer to use my silica for aluminium so I normally stick to the plastic circuit board recipes, quickwire and plastic are both very cheap even with limited oil/caterium

[unique cypress]

With alts, you don't need silica for aluminium

[slender sandal]

that reduces the efficiency though

[fierce ruin]

is 20 computers a minute and 10 Super computers, alot?

[slender sandal]

if you're building close to lots of bauxite then thats fine, but if youre trying to make every bauxite node count then a 1:1 ratio is nice with the silica

[unique cypress]

With silica, it's 1.(3) ingots per ore, without it's 1. But it also costs at least 1 raw quartz per ~2 ingots

[slender sandal]

depends entirely on how many parts per min you want to make of later things, in my factory I only make 2.5 supercomputers and 2 computers and thats enough for my phase 5 production

[vapid gorge]

it's pretty big if you're just going up the tech tiers

[opaque quartz]

I usually target one or two end machines for each production chain if I just need them “for me” (eg storage to dimensional depot uploader)

[fierce ruin]

why doesnt the planner use many alt recipes

like wouldnt it be more space efficient to use leached copper ingot compared to the normal recipe

[vapid gorge]

different planners have different weights if you put in multiple alt recipes. For example tools uses weights by resource types

I recommend you swap recipes in and out to make it do what you want

[unique cypress]

The planner doesn't care about space efficiency

[fierce ruin]

whadda yall think of this

[unique cypress]

It imma be brutally honest, terrible

[slender sandal]

I'd also strongly recommend Satisfactory Modeler on steam if you arent already aware of it, it takes a bit to get familiar with it but I find its way nicer to use than the online calculator tools

[fierce ruin]

alright, tbh i have no idea what im doing with this thing

[unique cypress]

How did you even get Tools to use 2 different recipes for computers?

[fierce ruin]

no idea

[vapid gorge]

modeler takes 100x as much time and effort to make things or alter recipe chains once they're made.
It has about 0% of the utility of sftools

[vapid gorge]

as for this? we can't really tell you how good it is w/o knowing what you're trying to accomplish and where you want to put the factory 🙂

for example if you pick a spot that has access to all these resources it's probably pretty convenient

[unique cypress]

I'd do this:
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=rvkz6YseUxLOJpHZC07g

[fallow siren]

why do you think its bad math?

8 coal gens consume 120/min coal
1 gen consume 45/min water, 8*45 is 360/min water (3 water extractors)

that schematic is very friendly for new players

and highly recommended

[unique cypress]

Correction: I'd use these recipes, but different numbers: 1.875 Super and 7 computers. Just to have a whole number of machines for each

[slender sandal]

if your goal is just to make super computers and computers, this is probably what Id do

[opaque quartz]

Join the party: https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1382088702494244875

[slender sandal]

only 3 ingredients, no quartz, no aluminium, just copper, caterium, and oil

[fierce ruin]

whats this thing?

or what website

[slender sandal]

thats satisfactory modeler

[vapid gorge]

a very very slow program called modeler

[fierce ruin]

thats alot easier to read

[vapid gorge]

it has no lables about what is going on at all xD there's nothing to read

it's also missing a few basic steps to make the first set of items. it just makes it look smaller

[fierce ruin]

my eyes struggle to comprehend the stftools

[vapid gorge]

you made a plan with a lot more steps

[opaque quartz]

The one that KYO shared is a bit more sane

[fallow siren]

modeler is easy to read if the one who made it is yourself, and it lacks the label for each recipe and impossible for new player to read what is happening
so most ppl recommend to just use tools

[fierce ruin]

just need to figure out the basic recipes for the ores and such

[unique cypress]

Tbf if you're familiar with the inputs and outputs of recipes, the lack of labels isn't really an issue

[slender sandal]

its worse for sharing recipes but way better imo for using yourself

[fallow siren]

most of the time, im using modeler for stuffs like this which is easier to read

[slender sandal]

all those labels are there when hovered

[fallow siren]

but for big stuff tools is the way to go

[slender sandal]

id argue the opposite, ive got a plan for my entire phase 4 factory that is a gigantic disgusting spiderweb in tools

[vapid gorge]

same plan but in tools

they cheated to make it look simpler by removing the first steps https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Imrj0MGFs0vMt9UUBN9a

delete the 'input' items in the input tab, and it'll show the first steps you need

[unique cypress]

It'd take me way longer to make that graph from scratch than to read the same thing tools spat out. Not to mention waiting for modeler to figure its shiz out

[fallow siren]

yeah one thing i dont like in modeler is when the graph is too big, it will took minutes just to read the numbers

[unique cypress]

Also, that's a lot of miscellaneous items I wouldn't put in one plan in tools, nevermind one factory in the world

[fierce ruin]

this isnt the same, doesnt got the computers as a final product

[vapid gorge]

add 4 computers and some more inputs then?

[slender sandal]

changing the calculator setting helps with that, if youre doing anything with loops setting it to manual and then just typing in the number you want makes it take under 5 seconds to calculate

[vapid gorge]

takes a few seconds

[unique cypress]

Yeah, the shape of the graph will still be the same. Just the numbers will change

[crimson moat]

Modeller gives more control, but it's slower because of that. Tools is far better for recipe calculation but will give a spiderweb of overlapping lines if you try to do complex stuff with it.

[vapid gorge]

personally I probably wouldn't bother with the pure ingot recipes, just because you need so little, but that's up to you

[crimson moat]

so for big builds probably best off using both, figure out recipies via Tools for the most part and take those into Modeller

[vapid gorge]

You could also make cable from Caterium if you want, meaning you don't need copper

either with this one,

or make the wire from caterium, and then basic cable

[vapid gorge]

or if you're feeling fancy, caterium wire to insulated cable, as you're already bringing in the oil 😄

neat, super computers with only 2 resource types. Didn't know that was a thing

[fierce ruin]

is fluid train cars still funky?

[vapid gorge]

it never was. Just people mishandling pipes

use one of these buffers on either end #design-and-architecture message
#design-and-architecture message

[crimson moat]

she grows more beautiful by the day

(and laggy on SCIM)

[wild magnet]

so if im doing my math right, the theorical limit for ficsonium rods production is not bound by uranium but sam 🤔

[crimson moat]

Yep

Ficsonium rods don't produce relevant power though, they are a waste disposal method

[wild magnet]

I'm aware

I'm starting a new playtrhough and actually planning things through this time

[crimson moat]

the competing and kinda better but more boring setup is using the SAM/sloops on uranium instead, making it into plut rods and sinking those

[wild magnet]

so I wanna see where I want to put everything

Yeah but isn't it kinda more fun to do ficsonium

[crimson moat]

that's why i'm doin it 😄

[wild magnet]

Probably doing something like using half the sam available into ficsonium and sinking the rest of the uranium into plutonium

not really that optimized in terms of resource use
could lower the copper

[vapid gorge]

well, it's both

[wild magnet]

theres 2100 uranium available and 10200 SAM, if you were to put all the uranium into making ficsonium rods you would need 17850 SAM
you can see the problem

[crimson moat]

and realistically you can make more uranium, it's quite easy to pump it up to 5-10k rather than the 2.1k on the map. It there was 5x more SAM we'd be able to make 5x more Ficsonium pretty much.

[vapid gorge]

are you slooping your sam?

[wild magnet]

you can see here

SAM is such a cool resource, it's a shame it's so limited

[wild magnet]

The sam usage goes directly into trigones

oh wait youre right

I completely forgot sloops are a thing

[vapid gorge]

and are you using aluminium ingots?

[wild magnet]

yeah

most efficient in sam usage

[vapid gorge]

there's enough sloops on the map to fully dupe sam iirc

[wild magnet]

I guess with sloops you could also higher the theorical uranium

amazing

[vapid gorge]

you might be better off doing a mix of slooping the trigons and sam though. Since trigons just need constructors

you'd also have to juggle the numbers becaues there's probably a point after slooping trigons that converting more uranium might get a better output

[wild magnet]

hm I was just calculating the theorical limit but now I might actually need to plan the whole plant to see this through

[vapid gorge]

you generally need to yes

[crimson moat]

The most valuable thing that you get out of slooping the Ficsonium Fuel Rod step is the dark matter 😄

[wild magnet]

I started by checking ficsonium but I also want to make a decent amount of space elevator parts and such

[vapid gorge]

ok looking at teh recipes it looks like you're better off slooping the reanimated sam over the trigons

[wild magnet]

its 44 machines 😮‍💨

[vapid gorge]

if you want true max you'll probably need to do calculus

[prisma kraken]

it also effectively doubles the plutonium power, but definitely breaking even on the DMR is pretty great™️

if you're attempting to max out nuclear, the places for the worlds sloops are the rod encoders and the rsam constructors

[crimson moat]

Full chain, if you double all of your ficsonium rods it only gives e.g. +14% power

Yeah you make the fics generate the same as plutonium, but it already generated 50% of that.

zero waste and the DMR is a nice side effect though. Saves SAM

[prisma kraken]

yep, max wasteless nuclear is sort of a vanity project. there's higher yield ways of of generating power

i'm finding in my planning that making enough ion power actually provides the dmr needed for everything

[crimson moat]

ion is underrated

[prisma kraken]

it isn't good for power until you start realizing all the other phase 5 stuff needs dmr and powershards make dmr

[crimson moat]

Tools starts straight up sinking synthetic power shards if you push it hard enough. Better to burn them for power before that

[prisma kraken]

whenever i push sftools too close to map limits for phase 5 stuff, it starts trying to make dmr out of ai expansion servers

[crimson moat]

That too, but i've seen power shards

maybe depending on which resources it has left

[prisma kraken]

i haven't caught it doing that, but it probably has something to do with how we've configured our queries

in any event, tool's linear solver breaks down on complicated feedback loops

[wild magnet]

probably something like this

some fun numbers, this uses (of available) 100% uranium, 42% bauxite, 45% SAM almost 30% caterium

[brisk urchin]

with the experience of my friend ive came to that conclusion, now i know its just pumps that are the issue

[vapid gorge]

Is this the same friend that said 3 extractors to 8 gens was ‘bad math’?

[brisk urchin]

yep

[vapid gorge]

While I’m glad it’s working, and headlift issues are common dragging pipes along the ground, I’m not sure your friend has expert opinions

[unique cypress]

Aside from creating 0x or -0x nodes, I haven't seen it have issues

[umbral barn]

Is there a best alternative recipe for ingots? Because satisfactory tools is saying use pure caterium ingots and the pure iron and copper alloy ingots instead of pure iron and pure copper and i can't wrap my head around it

[vapid gorge]

As mentioned to you previously- no, there’s only best to your situation and desired outcome

[vapid gorge]

Swap recipes around so there’s only one option at a time if you want your production plan a certain way

[umbral barn]

Well i mean generally in terms of ore:ingots

[vapid gorge]

Again , no. Unless you define what best is for you

For example, I tend to use the alloy recipes as the pures are obnoxious, even though they have higher outputs

[unique cypress]

You must've set some weird limits because Tools always uses Pure if it can

[vapid gorge]

If the location doesn’t have quite enough ore for my plan I might do some of it pure, rather than importing more

[umbral barn]

I didn't, I just gave tools all the alternates I have and disabled all the regular recipes for encased uranium cells and uranium fuel rods and it decided to spit this at me

[unique cypress]

Maximize mode?

[umbral barn]

Yes

[unique cypress]

Well, there's your issue

Never look at a graph from maximize mode

The only correct information that mode gives is the output amount

[umbral barn]

Well i wanted the Max amount of rods i can make

[vapid gorge]

Both maximise and ticking all the recipes be your issue

[unique cypress]

That's it

[unique cypress]

Copy the amount back into items/min mode

[umbral barn]

Weird since I used it for my last megafactory and that one works just fine

Although tbf that place is a little jank in terms of how I built it

[unique cypress]

I can assure you that it was, in fact, not fine. In maximize mode Tools does not optimize for raw resources, only the output amount

That's why the graph it produces is garbage

It'll happily waste resources if it doesn't affect the final output

It only won't do that if all resources are limiting, which is extremely unlikely unless you're only using one resource

[umbral barn]

I did set resource limits for it

[unique cypress]

Did you set all of them as low as they could go?

[umbral barn]

I set them all to what I was making

Then lowered until it spit out errors

[unique cypress]

Maximize mode doesn't spit out errors unless the output is 0

[timber finch]

The scim online calculator doesn't give me the most efficient recipes. For example, if you want to make fuel, it doesn't consider the packaged diluted fuel recipe (+unpackage later), or for turbofuel, it tries to use the turbo heavy oil residue when HOR -> fuel -> turbofuel has better yield (and gives excess fuel too). Am I missing something?

Or are there other calculators that work better?

[unique cypress]

That's because SCIM's production planner is shit :)

[unique cypress]

I suggest Satisfactory Tools

[timber finch]

Thanks a lot ❤️

[wind spade]

SCIM uses recipes that you select, no matter if they are "efficient" or not (though the definition of "efficient" is different for every player)

[timber finch]

I couldn't get SCIM to use the unpackage recipe (hadn't unlocked blenders yet)

[wind spade]

oh yeah, that as well - it can't do loops

[unique cypress]

Like I said, it's shit

[prisma kraken]

not sure if anything does better than sftools at the resource picking

[wind spade]

well, "better" is also a bit subjective 🙂

[prisma kraken]

the problem with tools is often your queries as to what to use have incomplete information as to what else you plan on building, so it often makes incorrect decisions based on incomplete data. it does its best, but sometimes it guesses incorrectly

yeah, common use case is that you want to figure out the most efficient recipe chain for making xyz so that you can fit more of other stuff you aren't asking about into your world

[wind spade]

well that's a problem with all solvers - they solve with known information, so complaining "it doesn't use the recipe I wanted it to use, without me telling it to use that recipe" is kinda pointless 😄

[prisma kraken]

it isn't a fault of the tool, you're just not asking for it to take into account what else you want to make

btw, do you have any plans on adding sloop accounting to the tool?

[wind spade]

from FAQ on Tools' discord:

9.) How can I calculate slooped machines?
In most cases, sloops are worth only on last step of your production, so you can simply produce half of what you need and then sloop last machine(s). However if you want to add sloops even to earlier machines, you can use the Items, Input section to simulate slooped machine by inputting their production (e.g. if you want to sloop Rotor machines making 20 Rotors, you input 20 Rotors as well). For technical reasons, adding slooping to old Tools is not possible.

(for new Tools, I have done some research, but can't promise anything yet)

[prisma kraken]

I know how to work around the limitation, i was just asking if you planned to add it

[wind spade]

^ 🙂

[prisma kraken]

yeah yeah yeah, in the mail, got it 😉

i have things generally figured out for my plan so i don't really have need of the feature, but it would be fun to see where they could maximize output or minimize input. I think probably the result of those calculations would pick some interesting places for the sloops that aren't very obvious

[wind spade]

problem with sloops is their nondecimalness (I may have invented a new word), a.k.a. you can technically have 0.5 of a smelter making 1/2 of the normal production rate, but you can't have two constructors, each with 0.5 of sloop (when limited to 1 sloop)

[prisma kraken]

quantum is i guess the word you're looking for

[wind spade]

and the solver I'm using can't deal with integer variables (or can, but I haven't been able to work out how, skill issue is also possible 🙂 ), and for new Tools I kinda want a different solver anyway, so it's very much possible that there is a solver that I can use, I just haven't done much research yet

[prisma kraken]

is it all written in javascript?

[wind spade]

*typescript, and no
the actual solver is a native binary application running on server side (linux), with PHP API on top of it, so solve request is UI->javascript converts to JSON->request to API->PHP converts JSON to text-based model for solver->PHP runs native process with model to solve->solver returns text-based result->PHP parses result to JSON and returns it->javascript parses JSON and generates graph->UI

[prisma kraken]

lotta marshalling of numbers to/from float with that

[wind spade]

for new Tools I want to explore options for javascript-based solver

but back in time when I made Tools, I've tested a few and they all were very slow/inefficient or straight up not possible to use for my usecase

[prisma kraken]

yeah, js isn't very good at heavy calculations

[wind spade]

yeah, one can see where some of the float inaccuracies can come from. Though I do some nasty black magic on PHP side to try to detect repeating and long decimals and preserve them as much as possible.

[wind spade]

another problem is that calculations are limited by speed of user's PC, which is much less predictable than putting it on a server.

[prisma kraken]

some of it is just the nature of floating point numbers. often you can't ever get exact values

[wind spade]

yeah, though luckily SF is capped at 6 decimals so I can "safely" round

[prisma kraken]

one thing i might suggest, knowing the game's recipes as well as i do, is that i think just about any math for the game can be done exactly with a rational number type (i.e. numerator + denominator)

[wind spade]

unfortunately, not really possible when using third-party solvers 🤷

[prisma kraken]

i have to think there's a linear solver out there that lets you set the ring of numbers for the domain

[wind spade]

well, once I do a big run around searching for solvers for new Tools, I'll definitely have a look at some of them

[prisma kraken]

i know GMP's API has a rational data type. a lot of other math libraries are built atop that code

I'd have to take a second look, but i think it may have some basic linear solving capabilty in the core library

[wind spade]

the problem is that I want more just "basic" linear solving, I want a MILP solver basically

and if I had to choose, I'd rather support sloops than have very slightly more accuracty at 7th decimal digit

[prisma kraken]

what's milp stand for and are there any other names?

[wind spade]

mixed integer linear programming

basically linear solver that allows for integer variables

[prisma kraken]

gotcha

[wind spade]

which is (in theory) one way to support sloops

in practice though, I still have tons of things to test

[prisma kraken]

i've been digging around lately in GMP's docs for reasons of my own, i'll let you know if i come across anything

anyway, that's not a tonight thing, i think i'm going zzzz soon, so tc

[unique cypress]

you can try asking the people at FactorioLab (or looking at their code if it's available). Their solver works with fractions - no rounding issues. But idk about sloop support - theirs is manual, but I can't tell if it's because it's impossible with their solver or because it's primarily for Factorio, where solving for modules isn't really useful

[prisma kraken]

the issue is that the solver needs to find integral instead of real values for some of variables, if i understand greeny correctly

[unique cypress]

You need integer variables, because you can't put 1.5 sloops into a machine, nor can you share one sloop across 2.

Without sloop support, greeny could almost definitely use a solver that uses rational instead of real numbers, because Satisfactory doesn't have irrational item or machine counts.

What I don't know, is whether there exists a rational solver with integer support.

And both me and probably greeny would rather have sloop support than fractional display

though you could probably use a real solver with integer support, and go over the entire result and convert all results into fractions. That would require recalculating the entire graph, tough, just with fixed recipes

[buoyant fulcrum]

why tf is phase 4 this big

[unique cypress]

Just don't automate it...

You can handfeed a dozen machines and be done with it in a few hours

[wind spade]

or automate it and get a lot of sink points 🙂

[buoyant fulcrum]

thats what im saying

and theyre all used for phase 5

so like

[wind spade]

"why is later game more complex than early game" 🙂

[buoyant fulcrum]

yeah yeah ik but like i just did nuclear and it was tiny comparatively

[wind spade]

base nuclear is very easy

[unique cypress]

Do the same for phase 5 🤷

[buoyant fulcrum]

yh im realising that now

[gloomy shoal]

What are people's best uses for the programmable splitter and priority merger?

[unique cypress]

I haven't used a programmable splitter, like ever. You can do the same with smart splitters, just maybe more of them.

The priority merger has use in belt compressors, and in byproduct handling

[gloomy shoal]

I do know I personally have used programmable splitters for about One Purpose (Emptying my project/dumpster train)

I can't say I've filled a belt enough to where the priority merger is functionally different to a normal one

[unique cypress]

A priority merger is probably useful for dark matter crystal management. To balance the residue correctly, you usually will need to use 2 different recipes. A priority merger will allow you to one up crystals from one before using any from the other

[wind spade]

prog splitter: some weird sorting systems if making central storage or something
priority mergers: never

[slender sandal]

Sushi belts for manufacturers with low-quantity ingredients to save space

[amber umbra]

@gloomy shoal On priority mergers, from Factorio experience the main priority merger uses that come to mind:

1. Advanced belt manipulation like "splitter/merger waterfalls" that let multiple belts be treated like a single belt.
2. Prioritization of certain sources of items. Usually occurs when an item has 2+ distinct production sources and having one of those producers not guaranteed consumed is a problem. Byproduct consumption like with oil products, dark matter crystals comes to mind. Maybe early game with biomass burners fed from different fuel sources.

Factorio has train tools that let you have generic trains for a given resource type and other advanced tools which also make prioritization systems have more utility. Satisfactory just direct links trains removing that niche generally.

[jovial creek]

should i use a manifold when have 2 100% foundry's and 1 at 66.6% or should i just use splitters and make a regular belt setup

[frosty owl]

I use programmable splitters to load-balance multiple items at once. Cuts down on lots of balancing beltwork

[jovial creek]

i have a 120 line of coal which needs to be split up 45 45 30 which i could do regularly but would it be better to just make a manifold for space

[frosty owl]

The two options you listed sound like the same thing

[unique cypress]

if you can fit it all on one belt, there's no reason to use a balancer. just manifold

[jovial creek]

ok gotcha ty. sorry i started this game yesterday so im just learning whats best to use and when

so use a manifold unless it cant fit on one belt

[orchid brook]

what is the best starter screw layout

?

[slender sandal]

essentially yes, and even when it cant fit all on one belt, usually that just means using multiple manifolds or using whats called an "injection manifold" where you merge the 2nd input belt in partway through the manifold after the first X machines have used up the first belt

[wind spade]

depends, since screws are barely needed for anything, I'd say "a single machine making screws to storage"

[orchid brook]

ok

[amber umbra]

@orchid brook I use a lot of 1:1 direct connected rod:screw in early game with default recipe. Under clock the rods to match.

Then cast screws to save space later.

[orchid brook]

that was i what was gone do

[slender sandal]

what Dr_Orgo said is good, I definitely wouldnt recommend setting up a big permanent screw production line because there are alt recipes that will let you cut them out entirely later which are usually worth using

[wind spade]

I wouldn't recommend setting up production of anything in advance. No matter if talking about screws or not, make what you need now, not what you might need in the future

[orchid brook]

Thanks guys

[jovial creek]

well whoops me. im setting up a large base that has 1 of every item i need so far w a max of 60p/m for each

[wind spade]

well screws are not very much needed, they are only used to build awesome shop (you'll most likely have only one), and a few equipments

[slender sandal]

I think this is good advice in the early game, once you hit phase 4 and have most/all of the alt recipes youd want I think planning ahead is very useful

[amber umbra]

Yes, that setting is popular.

[hollow basin]

Does anyone know how to change satisfactory calculator to be mk 1 miners? Always say mk3

[jovial creek]

beautiful stream of 60 plates 60 rods and 40 screws into the main storage

[unique cypress]

That's the neat part, you don't

SCIM's production planner is not good in general, so I suggest you use something else instead

Like Satisfactory Tools

It doesn't allow you to set a miner tier at all, but I'd argue that's better

Nodes are of different purity, miners have tiers and can be clocked.

That's a lot of variables you can easily figure out yourself easier than trying to set them in a calculator

[peak rune]

So it I’m not mistaken that’s the highest the sink will go

[dusky dust]

AFAIK it's only the highest the display will go; I think the actual point accumulation rate will still give you whatever the "real" rate should be

[unique cypress]

2^31 = 2 147 483 648

[peak rune]

That’s crazy

[flint crystal]

I am absolutely horrible at figuring out how to load balance or where to feed my belt with new items..

My 100 motors/minute factory doesn't run properly. Stators need 1600 wire per minute and rotors need 1200.

I have 4 belts with 700 wire each (mk5 belts are what I have).

The machines are vertically placed, each layer has 4 of them. So each layer of stators need 160 wire and each layer of rotors need 120.

Somewhere I have to feed the second belt of wire for both the stators and rotors. I've tried multiple spots, but it always ends up with either of the belts stopping and getting yammed. Then I also need to feed some overflow of rotors' wire to the stators.

I was hoping anyone smart enough could help with this, I'm not the best at explaining either..

[cinder silo]

Don't stress load balancing too much, the system runs well with a manifold and will stabilise, but if you really want load balancing, this playlist can offer some design inspiration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXV9qYKJWdk&list=PLQo-FPWWaZE-jn38NUxfxh5S2VyJNjnO3&index=3

[flint crystal]

Ah sorry, I meant manifold. I'm not really load balancing as I am just feeding it

[cinder silo]

Fair enough 🙂

[flint crystal]

Still going to bookmark that

[opaque quartz]

Group your machines and clock them to consume exactly 700 wire per group

[dusky dust]

My recommendation would be to retool your wire production to provide exactly what the next step needs. So instead of having 4 belts with 700 each, have like 7 belts of 400 each. Four of those go into four banks of Stator production, and the other 3 go into three banks of Rotor production.

[wind spade]

generally you want to make smaller modules that don't exceed belt capacity, or just hook each belt to the amount of machines it can feed and clock them accordingly

[cinder silo]

Load balancing very small systems can look quite elegant, but for larger setups, the rewards are nowhere near the time invested.

[dusky dust]

(Numbers there are just an example, of course, can group them however you like)

[flint crystal]

Maybe I should try that.. I did so much planning and still messed up, thought this would end up working guaranteed

[opaque quartz]

<@&387163995947270144>

[nimble ore]

!ban 694531170809020486 scam

[brisk shore]

andreasdeboom2006 was banned. | scam

[cinder silo]

📵

[cinder silo]

Thankyou! 🙏

[opaque quartz]

This probably requires the least amount of rework on your part if you’ve already built everything

[flint crystal]

I'll do that, thanks for the tip. Got to keep this in mind for my next big build

[unique cypress]

you can always do a balancer to distribute the items. then it doesn't matter how many items you need on each belt

[cinder silo]

Messing with clocks can tidy up numbers in a big way, that was especially valuable with aluminium later on.

[gloomy shoal]

I do love clocking things into nice numbers, but the second I ran into the "Machines will very rarely stutter if your requested speed is more precise than three decimals" issue it just ruined everything

[cinder silo]

Sometimes, downclocking a machine or two and adding another is one way to avoid that, mildly irritating but it beats off numbers and yellow light problems.

[gloomy shoal]

I mean my issue is most often, my system would run like a dream if I could run something at just 1/3rd speed
Not something I can really get around without changing what recipes I'm using :/

[wind spade]

Machines will very rarely stutter if your requested speed is more precise than three decimals
huh? you can have clock speed up to 4 decimals precise

[gloomy shoal]

It's probably 4 and I'm just not remembering right yeah, but it still breaks my 1/3rd and other very specifically fractioned machines

[unique cypress]

that's why all my machines are at 100% clock speed (or 250 if I have the shards)

[cinder silo]

Ok that threw me completely, stackable conveyor poles are now zoopable!

[wind spade]

well the thing is... it takes a long time for such a small discrepancy to affect your machines

but you can always just produce a different amount of product that doesn't have repeating decimals

[gloomy shoal]

I think a motor setup I was making had a 17 in there somewhere

And I would go "screw clock speed I don't care" but 1. Power line go straight :) and 2. Power graph

[wind spade]

straight power line is pointless to aim for, given that any sink, truck, train or lategame machine will screw with it

[gloomy shoal]

I mean true, but usually I put sinks/trains/intentionally-unstable factories on a secondary grid so I don't have to look at it

Trying to be better on "If the power line is scuffed I don't care" but it's still irritating

And yeah I could just try to find a better recipe route but that typically involves less material-efficient recipes or getting some stupud material that isn't nearby made or brought over

[wind spade]

doesn't even need to be a different recipe, just different amount

[quick gorge]

I love when discord doesn't scroll

[unique cypress]

yeah, to get rid of everything .(3) or .(6), just multiply everything by 3. Then divide by 2, 4, 5, or 10, etc if the number is too big

[gloomy shoal]

I suppose
Usually when I'm setting things up I shoot to use a 30-60 multiple (current save is going for very blueprints everything, at least once I unlock them) so I get kinda inflexible on numbers, but ig that is an option yeah

[wind spade]

realistically it's not a difference if you make 30/min, or 25.575/min or whatever. Any number is fine, doesn't need to be "nice" number per minute (game doesn't really care about per minute numbers anyway)

[jovial creek]

splitters on elavator lifts can only split 2 ways?

[oblique hollow]

should be 3

it goes out the top after all

or bottom, depending on the direction

so up/down and then left and right

[jovial creek]

oh lmao ur right i forgot about the output into the gen lol

[oblique hollow]

thats not a vertical splitter But yea

this thing looks scuffed as hell tho

[jovial creek]

huh

wdym why

[oblique hollow]

like.... its looks wrong

does it even work

[jovial creek]

oh yeah it is need to rotate the lifts but yeah it works fine just a basic manifold and i raise the coal input to make the piping easier for myself

w3ait so what is a vertical splitter lol

[gloomy shoal]

You can mount splitters to the ends of conveyor lifts for unknown reasons, could for a while

Vert splitters run along the lift's middle

[jovial creek]

is this the new item

ohh i see do i eventually unlock those

[gloomy shoal]

Mouse a splitter over the middle of the lift
Not a unique unlock

[jovial creek]

so is what im doing just cursed

[gloomy shoal]

Cursed but fully intended yeah

[oblique hollow]

no its legal.
doesnt mean it doesnt look cursed anyway

[jovial creek]

ooo i see this splitter thing

this is my old plant

could be even more compact but i split the pipes into 2 lanes

so is the point of this just practicality

because i honestly cant see a point in using that for this it would just mess up the elavations of the conveyors

[gloomy shoal]

Mostly yeah
Could maybe do a couple aesthetic things, but not being able to do side input to top and bottom output is a bit sad

[jovial creek]

am i right in saying that the way im doing it rn is better since it keeps it all on one floor

better i know now before i start building it all

[gloomy shoal]

I mean I usually floor hole coal up through the bottom but otherwise yeah kinda
That or I put splitters over the pipeline so I can just use belts (much easier with vertical nudge)

[jovial creek]

how do i nudge i cant figure it out my arrow keys wont do it nor will the page up and down keys.

[gloomy shoal]

You need to lock the hologram before you can nudge it around

[jovial creek]

also im just doing coal on same floor because this powerplant is in a very far place and i do not care ofr it to be hidden away

[jovial creek]

lifesaver ty

[gloomy shoal]

(Also, as far as pipe management with coal, I usually just run the pipes physically through eachother lmao)

[jovial creek]

also using lifts in this way saves so much time belting as ther lifts auto connect to the input for the coal plants

[jovial creek]

yeah i just do a basic layout its 3 270 pipes for this so not that bad

also my absolute previous genius decided to run the input for the manifold on the other side of the coal belt

[gloomy shoal]

The less liquid needs to be in a pipe the better I've found, so I usually run lots of 90 pipes (Yay underclocked water extractors)

[jovial creek]

wait prototypical i just found something pretty cool. if i delte the bottom or top half it makes the lift look much better

like thats with using the new vertical splitter

[gloomy shoal]

I mean yeah, it does help, it's just getting items between vertical splitters in a horizontal setup that'd be A Little Scuffed^tm
Could be leaned into ig

[jovial creek]

since im doing a 18 lane manifold would it be better to just split it into 2 9 lane manifolds

especially since im doing 2 rows of 9 and not 1 row of 18

[gloomy shoal]

I mean it doesn't especially matter so long as belt capacity checks out

[jovial creek]

mk3 belt for 270 coal

on the dot perfect

[gloomy shoal]

My extremely cool and normal solution for dealing with pipes on an olderish save

[jovial creek]

you mentioned more water is better so could i just instead of having (per pipe) 270 just have it so its at 300 total which is the max flow rate for the mk1 pipe anyways?

[jovial creek]

i just noticed what u did holy is that 4 pipes runnning in the same space lol

[gloomy shoal]

That's 8 pipes, it's just those 4 are the ones that wrap the front of that structure

[quaint vale]

pardon if this is the incorrect place, but should i worry about thoroughput earlygame (such as in phase 1)

[jovial creek]

this might seem like a nothing answer but honestly its up to you. me personally i always try to make everything 100% efficient. early on its less important but its genuinely up to you

[quaint vale]

how do i then approach more complex materials like motors? Do i dedicate a large amount of my factory to them or do i have a small passive buildup.

[jovial creek]

personally i think once u reach those items its best to make its own dedicated mini factory disconnected from ur starter item factories

[quaint vale]

i know it's personal prefrence, but i don't want to underprepare and then get slapped by the game when i get to midgame

[jovial creek]

hence you can resume recieving things like plates and rods while also making rotors or refined metal plates

[hot bridge]

I personally like searching for a combination of ore sources and building a little sub-factory around there. For motors I have a copper + iron spot where I built a small factory which has the single purpose to build motors. Then they are transported to my bae

[jovial creek]

once i reached rotors i hooked up a overclocked normal iron deposit and got a factory making 8 rotors per minute which is plenty

[gloomy shoal]

Yes and no
For personal use items (e.g. plates to make belts, rods and wire for power poles) just have it go into a box and don't care that much

For more complex parts you really should care, particularly wrt: Motors, since those produce slowly enough to be a pain in the ass

Like
I'd dedicate a full node or two's output to just making motors, for example

Not that you won't be able to make a dedicated factory later, but they're good to have in bulk

[quaint vale]

also, should i speedrun a constant powersource so i don't have to worry about bllackouts?

[jovial creek]

i wouldnt say speedrun but get a expandable coal plant setup