math-and-meta

[crimson moat]

you do have to sloop and maybe OC a few things so it's not that rosy but it's pretty good.

[oblique hollow]

thats ignoring plutonium power tho i assume

[crimson moat]

Yeah just strictly after it's waste

[oblique hollow]

main benefit of ficsonium was "you get to use plutonium, waste free"

so imo ficsonium power and plutonium should always be considered together

[crimson moat]

This reddit post was more about the argument of storing vs processing plutonium waste, and in that case slooping radically changes the balance of power

you can spend 18.4gw and a ton of materials to make 25gw of rods, or you can spend around 25-30gw and the same amount of mats to make 50gw of rods

then it gains 20-25gw net instead of 7gw on that step of the chain

[thorny root]

it isn't 'free' it's just a minor net power increase compared to the previous stages.

[zealous coral]

And Rocket Fuel gives you anyway 6x more power with similar amount of resources, (only using more nitro than with nuclear power what is a downside)

[oblique hollow]

"waste-free"

[thorny root]

So you're suggesting slooping this step?

[crimson moat]

This one is probably best.

like 80 percent of the power is leftwards

[thorny root]

Okay but slooping the next stage reduces your trigon usage.

Instead of... doubling it.

[crimson moat]

por que no los dos

i don't know the chain that well

[zealous coral]

From my research plutonium gives a lot of power, especially if you somersloop assembler on plutonium fuel rod, but after you burn plutonium fuel rod you can't sink anything. not fisconium, not plutonium wastes

[crimson moat]

just pointing out that slooping is way more beneficial on the plut waste to ficsonium step than it is anywhere on rocket fuel because of the difference between net and gross power which is rarely appreciated

i need to spend some days looking at all of the possibilities 😄

[zealous coral]

You can't sink plutonium wastes, nighter the fisconium

[crimson moat]

Ficsonium burns away

it doesn't have waste

[zealous coral]

Fisconium rods not fisconium

[crimson moat]

Yeah, you'd make them into rods if you're doing a waste-free chain with plutonium

or sloop rods

[thorny root]

At 187.5 plutonium to process, it would require 8 overslooped particle accellerators @ 4 sloops each to go from 234,375 Power from those rods to 468,750 power from those rods, not counting the power used in the doubling process.

[zealous coral]

so you have two options, sink plutonium rods, and don't have power from plutonium, or burn both fisconium rods and plutonium rods

[thorny root]

That step is just 1 of 3 in the chain.

17.64 % of the power generated by nuclear

32 sloops to double that 234375 mw

[zealous coral]

It is not energy efficient to overpower Fisconium production, (7.5MW not 2.5MW)

[thorny root]

30 sloops in APAs would increase power by 30% flat, even unpowered. This ends up being more than the gain from doubling the ficsonium rods.

Slooping ficonsium at this stage is not the max power. Sloops in the APAs is.

[crimson moat]

It is a problem of scale/capacity then, it just takes too many sloops to process a unit of plut waste and fics rods

[thorny root]

I'm telling you, I'm slooping: All the sam production, 2 quantum encoders, 2 manufacturers, and 50 APAs

on top of 1,328,125 total power from 213 total nuclear power plants

That's the max power. Fite me.

(not including oil based fuel)

[zealous coral]

better place for sommersloop is Plutonium Rod, (assembler) gives you 40GW Energy for 6 sommersloop per each 600 Uranium spend

[oblique hollow]

downside: makes more plutonium, which needs more ficsonium

[thorny root]

If you sloop your plutonium you end up with more than you can possibly process with the map resources.

This leaves you with nothing but a power plant, all the sam gone, and no factory.

No.

[bleak wagon]

^

[oblique hollow]

there isnt enough SAM or other resources to max out nuclear WITH ficsonium

[quick gorge]

At the very least if we need to restart the sun I know who to call 😅

[thorny root]

There is. You have to sloop SAm production.

[bleak wagon]

Yeah, my plant uses half the SAM on the map

[thorny root]

34 sloops in OC'd constructors doubles the sam map wide.

[bleak wagon]

And its going to be the whole chain

[zealous coral]

not catching your point,

[oblique hollow]

i thought that you couldnt max out nuclear with ficsonium.
Especially if you do like... non fissile uranium

[thorny root]

nvm then

[bleak wagon]

You get waste you cant process. Whats so hard to understand about that?

[thorny root]

You can. And yes.

LIKE I SAID it takes 150% of the sam on the map to do it but you can.

Which is actually achievable fairly easily. You just sloop your sam.

This doubles it, using only 34 of your 103 available sloops

[bleak wagon]

Yeah im using 5.1k SAM and everything sam goes into i have slooped so that sounds right

[oblique hollow]

A wise man once said:
https://youtu.be/DkZ6CDH7Zss?t=1104

[thorny root]

Maybe the only way to show y'all is to build it.

Give me a few months.

[bleak wagon]

Real

[quick gorge]

Thanks for reminding me of funni spinny belts >:(

[zealous coral]

Yap so this is another reason to not build Uranium power plant, but just burn Rocket Fuel, but then there can be a problem with available nitrogen gas on map

[thorny root]

Yeah the problem is if you use it all in nitro rocket fuel you're not going to be able to make fused modular frames, you're not going to be doing non fissile uranium, and you will have to figure out how you're going to get all the quartz you need as well without quartz purification.

The map resources are actually incredibly well planned and thought out.

[quick gorge]

:praisemark:

[bleak wagon]

Nuclear is imo the best for balance on use of resources for power

[hazy hill]

this looks strange

[thorny root]

When you need that much power, yes.

But he has a valid point: If you're never going to hit that threshold, and no interest in using all the map resources: Rocket fuel will suffice.

It just is not in any way representative of 'maximizing'

[bleak wagon]

Yeah, I have interest in using everything though so nuclear feels like a better option to me and I have never done nuclear before so I want to do it

[thorn bane]

wait what
the maximum possible sink build literally uses rocket fuel and UFR storing uranium waste

[thorny root]

Sink points are a silly metric. I know that it's everyone's only metric but it's silly.

[thorn bane]

sure what other metric do you wanna use

because i gaurantee you rocket fuel is better than nuclear in that metric aswell

[thorny root]

I have my own set of goals and objectives here and they have nothing to do with maxing out sink points.

[quick gorge]

"Some people just want to watch the world burn be powered"

[opaque quartz]

this is new in 1.1 - it shows this on a freshly built platform until the first time it loads/unloads

[outer vale]

or pipes

it's just the "we dunno what resource this pipe is for yet" indicator

[thorn bane]

lets say "weighted resources" as a metric
as in "how many resources does it use"
rocket fuel: 6.4%
nuclear: 14.8%
so nuclear uses 2x the resources on the map

lets look at complexity metric
rocket fuel is 2 steps
nuclear is ungodly

[thorny root]

Rocket fuel isn't enough power for my goals. At any scale.

[thorn trail]

Metric: "Percentage of the map made radioactive" - Pretty sure rocket fuel comes up behind nuclear in that metric

[thorny root]

There isn't enough map nitrogen.

[thorn bane]

sure then you use rocket fuel and nuclear
since nuclear is the second best
like 740GW rocket fuel + 630GW uranium

[zealous coral]

for maximazing, we need to use both, with uranium you will be covered with wastes or run out for SAM becouse of the Fiscit Trigons that are required with Rocket fuel you will run out of nitro

[thorny root]

Oh, you were paying attention.

[fathom warren]

Is it viable to make ionized fuel and burn that?

[thorny root]

Nice.

[oblique hollow]

is that purification combo really that strong.
I mean, i know it has a good combo but... is it that much greater than pure quartz / cheap silica ?

450 Crystals + 810 silica from 720 Quartz
vs
....
ok nvm, just did the math, pure has been bested. And slooping purification is also possible too
it takes 578 quartz for 450 crystals with pure and 347 for the 810 silica with cheap silica

[oblique hollow]

eeeeeeehhh not really

[thorn bane]

afaik its only better becuase less limestone xD

[thorny root]

Okay yes while possible I would not recommend slooping quartz purification. Not having enough quartz is only a concern for me because of my special mission.

[thorn bane]

not really
its too expensive
rocket fuel is better

[oblique hollow]

purification seems to be like 30% more quartz efficient than pure + cheap silica

[thorny root]

@oblique hollowhttps://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=GWz5OSo79xkQWQpOMp89 This is what I came up with for combined quartz and bauxite plans at 100%, and it is tentative based on other plans. this hits my silica requirements and gives me enough quartz to be comfortable with not having any more. I have eliminated the use of silica everywhere but the 2510 coming out which is used in the nuclear processes.

[fathom warren]

I didn't look much into that chain, just didn't know why you are talking about rocket fuel when ionized exists.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, Purification looks really neat; I'm still disappointed I never used it on my 1.0 playthrough

[zealous coral]

but still putting somersloops to Pressure Conversion Cube shows very efficient in my tests

[oblique hollow]

ionized is just a subpar deal

[thorn bane]

0.072% Limestone +0.667% Nitrogen +1.778% Quartz = 2.517
vs
0.276% Limestone +2.286% Quartz = 2.562

[dusky dust]

Well, it's lovely as a jetpack fuel, and presumably quite good as a vehicle/drone fuel.

Though saying it's subpar as a power fuel is, if anything, overstating its usefulness. :D

[opaque quartz]

ionized has the same drone top speed as plutonium rods

[thorny root]

The reason I'm doing the quartz purification is not for the quartz itself. it is for the SILICA in addition to the the quartz. For the portions of the factory that need BOTH, quartz purification is the winner. Until it becomes a nitrogen problem.

[oblique hollow]

i dont know what those numbers mean

[thorn bane]

weighted resources

[opaque quartz]

but a single plut rod obviously lasts a lot longer as it has a much higher total MJ value

[dusky dust]

(Ionized requires underclocking the production chain to make it net-power-positive versus the rocket fuel it's made from, if being used for power)

[oblique hollow]

i dont deal with weighted resources

[thorny root]

those are efficiency ratings but they only factor in quartz

@thorn bane show me the one that includes the silica please

[thorn bane]

this is including silica

[thorny root]

oh

[oblique hollow]

nitrogens weighting is whack

as is all weighting

[thorn bane]

its how many resources are needed to make 150 quartz and 270 silica

[thorny root]

honestly you cannot trust the calculator to plan super complex factories in one go.

You have to actually manually consider your resource usage and your alt recipes and what resources YOU are going to be most impacted by.

[thorn bane]

sure you can still do the math of 2.286% Quartz/1.778% Quartz=1.285% so 28.5% more quartz

[thorny root]

is that increased yield or increased cost?

[thorn bane]

this just tells you that you pay for that 28.5% quartz with quite a lot of nitrogen

[thorny root]

Yes. Correct. That was the hardest part of this decision.

[fathom warren]

Outside of power discussion. Why do all of you seem to be using satisfactory tools and not a satisfactory calculator/satisfactory modeler

[opaque quartz]

because it's a better tool (IMHO)

[thorn bane]

tool looks nicer and i trust its math more
i do use modeler for actually planning things, just not for math questions

[thorny root]

But then I started figuring: What am I using nitrogen for... and it's mostly in fused modular frames. Those are mostly going into the nuclear processes at a rather fixed rate. And then PORTALS. Nitrogen goes into portals via the same process because we need pressure conversion cubes for the singularity cells.

[bleak wagon]

I only use satisfactory modeler because i find it easier to plan everything out step by step how i want it

[thorny root]

So... I eliminated the nitrogen usage everywhere else, I gave myself a fixed minimum requirement, and then I started looking for any remaining alt recipes that would need it... and there just aren't any. So it's frames, quartz purification, and non fissile uranium. that's all my nitrogen usage.

This puts me at 75% map nitrogen usage with 0 portals.

[thorn bane]

well rocket fuel xd

[thorny root]

we don't do that here

[bleak wagon]

So far from following this conversation im thinking i might want to switch up my quartz crystals/silica method in my nuclear plant because i can definitely make better use of quartz to not use slightly over 8k in nuclear

[oblique hollow]

when in doubt you can just do alchemy

buut considering your nuclear project... you aint got no SAM for that

[thorny root]

If I do not put any nitrogen into quartz purification, I get 2.5k quartz out instead of 4.5k and i Use 69% of the map nitrogen instead of 75%

[bleak wagon]

Seems like a bad trade off tbh

[thorny root]

Depends on what you need more. Like I said I'm going to need that quartz.

[oblique hollow]

how much bauxite / caterium are you using

[thorn bane]

i just use it for the numbers
270/min silica is insane
couldnt care less about resources

[thorny root]

cat unplanned, baux @ 100%

[zealous coral]

Quartz purification is to effective to give up using it

[thorn bane]

whats your build again?

[thorn bane]

its also fun
byproducts are awesome

[oblique hollow]

I have a funny proposition....

[bleak wagon]

Funny indeed

[zealous coral]

Conversion is not usable becouse of SAM

[oblique hollow]

skill issue
the cost of max nuclear

[thorny root]

why are you saying this

[thorn bane]

so is maxing warp drives

[oblique hollow]

again: projects for lunatics

[thorn bane]

these are my limits
and sam is defenitely up there

[quick gorge]

I'm minmaxing fun, it's great!

[thorn bane]

well if youre not maxing the world, why use alchemy if you can just use a node

[bleak wagon]

I wonder if i can get away with this in my save, im only using 50% of the same in my nuclear plans

[oblique hollow]

Because its freakin alchemy

[thorn bane]

hahahaha

[quick gorge]

Might cost an arm and a leg

[thorn bane]

and your soul

[quick gorge]

:D

[oblique hollow]

you cannot stop me i already turned your house into gold

and your car into nitrogen

[quick gorge]

And your dog into a. . . wait...

[thorn bane]

can you turn my water into wine

[zealous coral]

Can't find recipes combinations where it would be worth perform this conversion. It looks more effective to put concrete and iron where you can. Naturally it depends what is a goal of everybody, mine is to max tickets points per minute

[oblique hollow]

sadly no....
but packaged fluid alchemy would be funny

[bleak wagon]

It would be

[thorn bane]

isnt the max sink points using conversion

[oblique hollow]

turn water to HOR

[thorn bane]

Nitrogen Gas (Caterium) 5.366030867 134.1507717 4504.444238 2.5 0
the maximum available sink points on the map literally turns caterium into nitrogen

[oblique hollow]

and so jesus said "let there be flammable petrolem goop"

[thorny root]

It is more effective, generally to use concrete and iron in places where you are avoiding using other more limited resources. But as far as sam conversion goes... It's a valid tool. If you plan your factory to the maximum, you will end up using some sam conversion.

I am just reserving that sam conversion option until the very very very last resort.

I know it's there. I'm just... it's not an option until it's a necessity.

Until then I do all the tuning with alt recipes

[zealous coral]

With that I can agree

but I'm still at the point of tuning my plan

[oblique hollow]

technically MAX max nuclear would involve turning like... bauxite (and in turn copper or caterium ) to uranium

[thorny root]

It's a never ending process.

[thorny root]

Yeah but if you let the calculator run away on a fool's errand it'll come back with a ridiculous plan.

You can't just let it go like that.

You have to know what you want before you can tell it what you want and expect it to give it what you need.

[oblique hollow]

hmmm.... if instead of using copper to make nuclear pasta and ficsonium i instead use all my copper to make alchemy uranium... how much more power do i get?

[zealous coral]

Nope, I don't think i will even use all uranium, but we will see

[thorn bane]

a lot more from what i remember

[oblique hollow]

i just wanna know now

[thorn bane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fqey96/ficsonium_loop_yields_less_power_than_just/

[thorny root]

@oblique hollowNuclear pasta is a lot of copper yes but it's not going to kill you unless you don't take advantage of things like iron wire.

[prisma kraken]

if you sloop the ficsonium production, it effectively doubles what you make from plutonium. don't believe everything posted on reddit

[bleak wagon]

Im ngl that doesnt even look like that bad of a deal now that i do the math on it

At least for my needs

[thorn bane]

why would you ever waste sloops on power

[oblique hollow]

Alchemy is costly, but its a good deal tbh

[prisma kraken]

you aren't wasting them on power, you do it to conserve sam

[quick gorge]

But how does one make more philosopher's SAM?

[thorny root]

I feel like y'all mostly grasp the concepts I'm talking about but you're immediately discarding them becasue they aren't about max sink points.

[thorn bane]

just sloop warp drives and ai expansion servers

[prisma kraken]

slooping the last step of fics rods makes the process dmr net zero

[thorny root]

so I'm going to go back to my office

[oblique hollow]

all hail the chart

[quick gorge]

Thank god I don't give a shit about points.

[bleak wagon]

Neither do i

[quick gorge]

I just wanna loop some loop-organs

[prisma kraken]

points become meaningless once you have turbomotors & supercomputers automated

[thorny root]

Real topic: Which HMF recipe do y'all prefer and why?

[oblique hollow]

i appreciate your efforts for your purpose of going on a power trip (hah)

But i myself just dont max anything. I mostly just look for funny production trivia and info.

[quick gorge]

Okay Mr wiki

[bleak wagon]

Encased because theres no screws

[quick gorge]

I do plan on sushing encased

[oblique hollow]

Default tbh. Steel screw works

[thorny root]

That's basically my thought process as well. The only way screws on a line this long won't be hell is if I do screws from beams (I forget the name of the alt recipe)

[bleak wagon]

Steel screws

[thorny root]

I just hate having to break a line at 3 machines.

[thorn bane]

watch as i turn 60 limestone into 72 limestone 🚀 📈
come back to investments on massage 2(A-B)b on next friday

[bleak wagon]

I think

[oblique hollow]

technically steel screws dont even have to be steel

they can be aluminum too

[thorny root]

Well we're not making them out of aluminum.

[quick gorge]

We need more philosopher's SAM damn it!

[oblique hollow]

Well you can

[bleak wagon]

Lmao

[versed violet]

wasnt there a recipe for beams without steel?

[thorny root]

My power plant... uses 75% of the aluminum on the map man.

We ain't got no spare aluminum.

[oblique hollow]

the quirkiest little recipe

[thorny root]

That shit is rare as gold rn.

[oblique hollow]

but you got caterium

[bleak wagon]

Theres a recipe for pipes without steel as well

[oblique hollow]

which is just a touch of magic away from being aluminum

[thorny root]

Did you catch the part about sam conversion being the very very very last resort?

[thorn bane]

magic isnt free

[quick gorge]

I got you

[oblique hollow]

Yes.
Should you ever be in DESPERATE NEED of screws....
you know what to do

[versed violet]

We need a transmutation philosophers circle channel I guess.

[versed violet]

There is a mod for that, where everything is a screw!

[thorny root]

Go screw myself? XD

[quick gorge]

yes I did just post a asteroid with gold in it... it also has iron and nickel in it, worth about 10,000 quadrillion dollars ... what the fuck am I reading?

[quick gorge]

Yeah that is just https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1283457093696749609

[thorn bane]

still think you can build a computer out of converters by treating iron as 0 and limestone as 1 and just using converters to turn 1 into 0 and 0 into 1

[bleak wagon]

Yes astroids are worth a lot of money

[versed violet]

wait, there is a channel for that?
[must have muted it way back]

[quick gorge]

looks at the national debt of... everywhere

[thorn bane]

its where natro lives

[quick gorge]

It just has a bunch of schizos in it dw

I am self aware.

[oblique hollow]

technically you could make HMF entirely out of limestone... or sulfur

[versed violet]

is that a place to see all the ada dialogues I may have missed?

[quick gorge]

That sounds like a sin my guy...
Do it
Goto factory hell

[quick gorge]

Maybe

[versed violet]

Uranium is the final element that can't be transmuted into anything else tho

[quick gorge]

But why SAMual, why won't you change Uranium?

[thorny root]

Because uranium changes you.

[quick gorge]

Not even a joke whenever I see the channel light up I drop everything and see if it's not a box posting a link that was already removed

[quick gorge]

cries in radiation

[thorn bane]

honestly thats me for math and meta

[versed violet]

therapy sessions with SAM didnt work because uranium was too unstable.

[quick gorge]

We each have our homes no this server 🙃

[thorny root]

I used to live in #design-and-architecture but the screenshot snobs voted me off their island.

[quick gorge]

BRUH therapy with SAM is a baad idea

[thorn bane]

bro i muted that channel instantly
designs are for CHUMPS

[quick gorge]

Care not what people think, embrace what you can about what you can do.
People who can't admire the effort do not deserve the time of day.

[quick gorge]

me trying to make by factory not look like a box
oh... okay

[versed violet]

I would accept therapy with Samantha Carter from SG1. No idea what we would be talking about, but it sure would be interesting.

[thorny root]

Yeah they didn't agree with my symmetry of belts and machines as being aesthetic or well designed.

And they certainly didn't gaf about why I was doing it the way I was doing it.

[quick gorge]

Yeah SAM nodes do not give good advice

[thorny root]

Anyway I do like y'all better. Better mesh here.

[quick gorge]

Sounds like they need to cry more

[thorny root]

Yeah that's all they did when I started telling them about my projects. "Ewwww, this isn't a screenshot." - Not an exact quote but might as well have been.

[oblique hollow]

behold: Heavy Limestone Frame

[quick gorge]

Babe wake up, new alt just dropped.
Thanks I hate it

[oblique hollow]

Sulfur Frame is just as cursed

[thorny root]

Whyyyyyyy

"Because we can."

[versed violet]

Iron-only hmf please?

[quick gorge]

Fuk em, I'mma keep posting in there just so I don't clog other places up with things like this

[thorny root]

They legit gloss over my shit and pretend I don't exist now. It's hilariously petty.

[quick gorge]

They seem fine with the shit I post but they also might just see a blue name. . .

[thorny root]

XD It's not even for anything.

What's it a badge for, playing the game a lot?

[quick gorge]

I've just been here since the beginning, like what I haven't even contributed much to the community unlike Greeny and Anthor 😅

[crimson moat]

Another interesting case for slooping.

Rocketfuel > Ionised fuel, default recipe, is 100gw gross and -6.3gw net (it costs more power than it adds)

Slooped, it's 200gw gross and about +90gw net.

Takes 24 sloops to process 1200 rocket fuel into 2400 ionised that way.

[thorny root]

Well that's cool enough. So it's like a badge of courage and honor 😄

... and that may be overselling it a bit.

[quick gorge]

A badge of "you've been here a long time" 🙃
Reeegardless

[zealous coral]

Ionized fuel is only good for jetpack. then it is fun

[quick gorge]

yes, courage is a long short

[thorny root]

alpha games as a main game is a brave decision. - A Star Citizen backer.

[quick gorge]

I just saw the team who made bangers in the past making a genre I love and there ya go

Like it's pretty meta to compare the first version we had of the game to the must current-
#fan-art message

[thorny root]

Well this is definitly a satisfying factory game.

[oblique hollow]

boy do I love complicating reinforced iron plates

[thorny root]

I wish there were more combat aspects, and more random production objectives requiring you to divert efforts, resources, switch things up, etc.

[crimson moat]

with Dark-ion fuel, you get 100gw gross and -9.63gw net

with ~10 sloops you get 200gw gross and +84gw net

[thorny root]

I'd love to have satisfactory 'weekly objectives'

[quick gorge]

1.x 😏

[thorny root]

Yeah.

I also anticipate ficsonium becoming improved in power yield per rod.

It may not happen but it's a reasonably easy alteration to make.

One that wouldn't break factories, and would make sense.

[quick gorge]

Quite a lot of the team feel similar so we're going to get it, as some point.

[thorn bane]

thats pretty cool but have you seen sam only builds?
#math-and-meta message

[dusky dust]

Yeah, though if you're spending sloops on it, I expect that the sloops would be better deployed on the rocket fuel side. :)

(I have not done that math though)

[oblique hollow]

yes but sam only is kinda boooooring

[quick gorge]

Now make all the PE parts using just SAM

[thorny root]

now who's on a power trip

[quick gorge]

I just wanna loop the loop-organ ;-;

[oblique hollow]

behold: over 1000 RIPs from barely anything (... except the iron lol)

[crimson moat]

You may be right, but only because i just realised that you can't sloop this damn thing efficiently because the exit pipe can't flow 1k ionised fuel from one hole 😄

[dusky dust]

Hah, alas

[oblique hollow]

you can half sloop it

ionized fuel refineries can run with just 1 sloop

[crimson moat]

It outputs 500 when overclocked, so even 1 sloop would overpower it unless you reduce the oc

[quick gorge]

Waste of a loop-organ imo, use it at 250 or why bother?

[oblique hollow]

the items per cycle are more important

but i see the point with flow rate

[crimson moat]

in that case you put all of your sloops in one place, and oc less

[thorny root]

Have you considered: Dark Ion Fuel

[crimson moat]

yeah, that's the one that doesn't fit out of the exit pipe

[oblique hollow]

also.. wait... 500?
are we talking about... one machine?

[crimson moat]

yes, OC dark ion fuel takes 600 rocket fuel and produces 1000 ionised fuel in 1 machine

when slooped

[oblique hollow]

ah dark ion

[thorny root]

Okay so you would have to use the base recipe for ion fuel

[crimson moat]

not neccesarily, dark ion is still pretty good compared to it for sloop efficiency

and having less clock on slooped power-heavy buildings does help a little too

[thorny root]

Awwwww c'mon. You don't like seeing a 5000% spike in power usage all at once when you start building stuff?

It's funnnnnnnnn

[bleak wagon]

I have a 77gw power storage building so i can for sure enjoy that show

[thorny root]

Mah manager.

[bleak wagon]

I only did it because i have a 12gw power grid rn and i need to start my nuclear plant somehow

[dusky dust]

1200 RF, yes? Dark Ion requires packaged

[crimson moat]

Yeah just figured that out too 😄

what inputs and outputs does the converter have, just to be clear? It's not described on the wiki

[bleak wagon]

Its a pipe and 2 conveyers i think

Oh im thinking of smth else ig

[crimson moat]

you're both wrong i think 😄

[bleak wagon]

Oh lmao

[oblique hollow]

1 solid + 1 fluid output

[bleak wagon]

Outputs are 1 solid 1 fluid

[thorny root]

I have a 'ring of power' atm. A glorious and temporary meme. It's absorbing all the spikes atm while I'm in hardware mode, rearranging everything with 0 sustained production to speak of.

[thorn bane]

it is

thats not a converter

[bleak wagon]

Sounds like fun

[quick gorge]

womp

[crimson moat]

ok nvm, thanks 😄

I missed that whole section and you guys are just not using dark mode

[oblique hollow]

so the info is burned into your retinas of course

[thorny root]

Actual production atm is terrible.

[crimson moat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfxDEZX9K0o

[bleak wagon]

Lmao im in the same boat

[thorny root]

90% of my power consumption right now is in idle machines.

Idle machines that are only even powered so I can use my flying machine while building the rest of the factory floor

[bleak wagon]

62k max cons and only like 12k production

Most of the stuff is idle

[thorny root]

I'm going to have to increase my power production just to keep building idle machines.

[bleak wagon]

Im going to try to un idle machines sometime but not until i have nuclear done

[thorny root]

It's literally becoming unssutainable.

[bleak wagon]

Yeah im struggling by with my power rn

I dont know how i have t9 production atm

[crimson moat]

so Dark Ion with maximised sloop efficiency is 4 sloops and 150% on a Converter, input 360 rocket fuel/min (21.6gw, packaged) and output 600 ionised fuel (50gw, gas)

without sloops: +50gw gross, -5gw net

with 4 sloops: ~100gw gross, over +50gw net

[quick gorge]

Looks fukin' valid enough >:(

[crimson moat]

a regular rocket fuel blender with OC makes 15GW of rocket fuel, so slooping it 4 times adds less than 15GW directly

indirectly it improves the compacted coal loop.. but so does the ionised fuel.

That's another thing, when you get useful byproducts back - in this case compacted coal is very useful - you're also slooping the byproduct, and that helps a lot when feeding it back in to sloop it on its second and third time around etc as well. You need considerably less external input to saturate your machine.

[bleak wagon]

Lmao ik the feeling

[hazy hill]

How to make an output in Modeler?

[quick gorge]

sink?

[hazy hill]

good solution thanks

[quick gorge]

@frosty owl I just fucking realised why my SIS won't work
I'm smat
I have the programable splitting equally into two machines and then the overflow.
Issue is the left one is Iron alloy and the right one is copper alloy and copper is 1:1 and iron is 4:1

So I can't actually do this as I had planned under SIS belts

[frosty owl]

Signs... Signs everywhere to not forget even the tiniest thing!

[quick gorge]

I don't really have the space before sending up to balance 3 1:1s and 3 4:1s

. .. I could send all the belts down to be rejigged to those but that would mean void balancers ... and like....

[bleak wagon]

I just have a notepad open on my computer or my schizo writing on a notebook

[frosty owl]

1:1s, at least, are easy to make (so long as you have full belts aviable)... But overall, I recommend not trying to feed the same items to machines needing different amounts.
Eg: if I need to feed Fused Quickwire Assemblers with different clocks, I usually have one input belt for each group of machines with the same clock

[bleak wagon]

I do like signs for labeling things though just not normally for numbers

[frosty owl]

I dislike to leave the game for whatever reason related to the game... So I end up using tons of signs rather than "just" writing on the side or alt-tabbing

[bleak wagon]

It would eventually start working right in the end though wouldnt it

[frosty owl]

I don't understand what you mean

[bleak wagon]

I have 3 monitors so idm tabbing out and i normally just have all my info i meed for smth up at once, just up to preference, theres not really a wrong on tracking things

[frosty owl]

I'm not debating which is best, just sharing my experience/preference ^^

[quick gorge]

Shitty drawing diagram time bayyybeeee
Blue would be 1:1 and green is 4:1 and the red dots are the foundries, can this work with SIS?

[bleak wagon]

Like if you have 30 of smth and split it into machines needing like 18 and 12 it would work eventually if you just split it into 2 belts

[bleak wagon]

I know, didnt mean for it to come off as trying to debate that

[frosty owl]

If it's a single-item manifold, that can be the case, but the example at hand is a bit more complicated and delicate

[bleak wagon]

Ah, sushi manifold?

[frosty owl]

"Worse": sushi with single input (using 1 input with foundries)

[bleak wagon]

Interesting

[frosty owl]

So no way to manage overflow or let the belts back-up

[bleak wagon]

Oh yeah thats annoying to manage, i did smth similar in one of my sam fluctuator productions a while ago

No longer have it because it was a horrible idea

[frosty owl]

Sorry, chat scrolling fast 😅
So long as you don't mix blue and green, it should be doable (do remember that the items should still be consumed evenly by the branches, so that the branches don't starve one another ruining the equilibrium)

[frosty owl]

How did that come about? ^^

[bleak wagon]

Lack of space

[frosty owl]

I'm curios about the thought process that led you to that

[bleak wagon]

Im curious what i was thinking as well

It wasnt even using a smart or programmable splitter

[thorn bane]

drugs
lots of em

[bleak wagon]

It was just somehow working with a normal splitter

[quick gorge]

I guess I might be doing void logistics and each... wing? of the snowflake not be a mix of iron an copper, I did want the output of each wing to be mixed too ;-;

[quick gorge]

-# Gonna share?

[frosty owl]

In some very specific instances, normal splitters can manage sushi... ^^
Eg: splitting a belt carring two items in 1:1 ratio 3-ways maintains the original sushi pattern. Splitting 2-ways gives two single-item belts

[bleak wagon]

Yeah so it was like a 1:2 ratio lmao

[frosty owl]

This is getting a bit hard for me to fully understand, ngl
I could use a good diagram for more in-depth discussions 😅

[frosty owl]

Splitting that 2-ways should maintain the sushi, but splitting that 3-ways should lead to 3 single-item belt (2 carrying the same kind of item)
So, it may have just worked, and surprisingly reliably at that! 😆

[bleak wagon]

Yeah i had no idea how sushi belts worked at the time so i had it work out of pure luck

[quick gorge]

The 8 foundries is one wing of my 24 hex pattern that looks like a snowflake, I did want 4 of those to be copper and the other 4 to me iron but iron is 1:1 and copper is 4:1 so doesn't really allow for splitting within the single slice, so if I do SIS I will be needed to have each side be 1 recipe and alternating through the 6 sides, not just have all 6 of them be mixed

[bleak wagon]

My brain is struggling to understand

[frosty owl]

BTW, just throwing out some obscure knowledge in the off chance you may be interested in giving this sort of stuff another shot: programmable splitters can split evenly any pattern of sushi (with some caveats...)

[quick gorge]

Currently my belts are carrying 1:2 for those mixed recipes I as hoping for

[bleak wagon]

Good to know(i love sushi belts)

[frosty owl]

Yeah, making each wing have the same recipe is likely needed. Either that or having 2 sushi belts going into each wing :/

[bleak wagon]

How many belts are there with the 1:2 ratio

[quick gorge]

This did work for hours, so I have to choose between mixed recipes or SIS

[frosty owl]

Or switching to sushifolds. That would work with different recipes too ^^

[quick gorge]

6
600 iron, 300 copper/m

[frosty owl]

This is a bit hard to give a proper judgment to without numbers and arrows :/
While it can work, there's a few ways things could go wrong and things that aren't clear from the picture (eg: does the line going upward in picture have a overflow lift at the end?)

[bleak wagon]

Im trying to think of how to resplit that if thats smth youre able to do

Does it have to be 6 belts im the end

[frosty owl]

Guess: do you have overflow management at the end of each branch of the sushifolds, bringing overflow back to the smart merger (?) placed after the first splitter

[quick gorge]

It does just sort itself out, I did have a belt reader on the input that includes the second feedback and it was 1020-1040, sohad 120-140 recycled through

[frosty owl]

Why did you place the Smart Merger after the first splitter rather than before it?

[quick gorge]

I have 9 belts coming into the base of the structure before they go up, 600 of each iron copper and I slip the copper and merge them into the iron

[bleak wagon]

So the belts are 9 1:1 belts to start

[frosty owl]

Expanding on this. I think you should have the Merger BEFORE the splitter. Atm, it merges overflow from 2 (main) branches onto only one branch; that may be problematic

[quick gorge]

. . . no?
each 6 iron and 3 copper. ;-;

[bleak wagon]

Oh i misunderstood

[quick gorge]

The overflow from the right, the shorter branch gets injected into the left branch, the left branch's overflow merges before the first splitter

I love not following any form of conventional ways of doing things :D

[frosty owl]

I think you could make things simpler and more reliable if you merged all overflow together before Smart Merging it before the first splitter 😅

[bleak wagon]

How much of each thing does one belt need, ik its 4:1 and for some reason i keep thinking thats 900 and 300 even though its not (maybe im stupid), it should be 800:200 as the easiest multiple

Could you take 2 iron miners split it 3 ways and merge each of those with 3 of the other miners

[bleak wagon]

Lmao

[bleak wagon]

Then you should be able to do a 3 way split on copper and merge 2 of those belts together and put that into the iron

[quick gorge]

Sorry I tabbed out to do a thing

[bleak wagon]

I should draw what im thinking to try to make this more understandable

[quick gorge]

I do like diagrams :)

[bleak wagon]

Smth like this

[quick gorge]

And I thought my diagram was bad

[bleak wagon]

That would be for one belt and the others shouldnt be too bad to get from there

[bleak wagon]

Im on a phone leave me alone

[quick gorge]

<3

[bleak wagon]

Does it at least make sense what im trying to say?

Should be a belt of 800:200 if what i did is right

[quick gorge]

Yeah I'll change around the inputs after a short break from our sponsor
||food, because I'm hungry||

[bleak wagon]

Lol

[bleak wagon]

If i were home sf modeler wouldve made this diagram so much better lol

[quick gorge]

ECH actually I can do SIS elsewhere, the alternating recipes is too unique to pass up.
Like srsly where else can I do anything like this?

I'll cope with two belts going in

[thorn bane]

fused wire fused quickwire

[quick gorge]

I don't really wanna put wires on a train

[frosty owl]

Oh no... How dare you have a life~

[quick gorge]

I tabbed out to make a meme for y'all

[frosty owl]

That's why it's more convenient to move the ingots! :D

[bleak wagon]

Totally(increasing the amount of items being moved is such a good ides)

[quick gorge]

I am now trying to make work for the sake of ech, fuck it

[bleak wagon]

Lmao

I need to finish building smth like 40 train stations and their signals

[quick gorge]

And this place is a lovely place to have the alternating thing

[bleak wagon]

Funnily enough i need barely any copper and iron so id be saving that for a different time

I need almost 19k limestone though so

[thorn bane]

90% of my iron need comes from copper alloy for copper powder xD

[bleak wagon]

Im doing pure iron ingots because im making my nuclear power plant over the water (I wonder why)

[quick gorge]

I'm namely looking at local nodes and see what fit and would be cool.
Those spread of iron and copper just happened to be perfect for the alloy recipes

[bleak wagon]

my material list is currently

• 2083.3 uranium
• 1063.03 crude oil
• 153,393.95 water
• 5916.67 bauxite
• 4937.44 nitrogen
• 3083.28 sulfur
• 18,211.95 limestone
• 5634.71 coal
• 8107.11 quartz
• 5123.5 SAM
• 3519.91 copper ore
• 2300 iron ore or smth
• 2669.91 caterium ore

I have to go around the map for this

[quick gorge]

I normally don't use the alloy recipes. However. I'm going for coolness optimization now

[thorn bane]

wait only 1000 oil? youre lucky
im using 8000 (mostly for diamonds)

[bleak wagon]

Im only using oil for plastic/rubber

Im using primarily coal on diamonds

[thorn bane]

oil diamonds are great

if you have spare oil xD

[bleak wagon]

yeah I looked at them but decided I didnt want to take oil from the northern coast

[quick gorge]

The USA would like to know your location

[bleak wagon]

Im using the pink diamonds alternate

[thorn bane]

im just gonna "bring democracy" to the west coast and turn all of it into diamonds xD

[bleak wagon]

Im building my nuclear power plant over the water on the west coast

[thorn bane]

and dragging a belt of diamonds is easy since they are so compressed

[bleak wagon]

I have 200 reactors placed currently, I need to figure out where I want to put the last 13 at

I should probably use SCIM to move it over slightly because part of it ended up being the death area after I rotated it but i already connected rails so thats like too much effort

I can just exist in the death area, it doesnt hurt thaaaaaaat bad

I am looking into reducing the quartz cost because im at 8.1k quartz and would like to not be using 2/3 of the quartz in the game on nuclear power even though I can just make caterium into bauxite then quartz

[quick gorge]

Reminds me I'm alive!

[bleak wagon]

indeed

it doesnt even hurt enough to be annoying

I can do enough before using an inhaler

[quick gorge]

I need to find the death area over by the top left of the map.
I want to build the Ficsonium reactors over the void for reasons I won't explain unless asked.

[bleak wagon]

well its your lucky day. Im asking. why are you building them over the void?

[thorny root]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=0IhpC1x0G2u3IsudckEV It's done. That all encompassing nuclear plan we talked about. The alt recipes are done. The list is final. This does not include anymore: Trigons, time crystals, or portal fuel as final products. It has very specific slooping requirements as well.

[bleak wagon]

I got my plan mostly sorted out for my needs so Ive been following that the last few days

just messing around a little with some other alts to save on resources

[quick gorge]

Read the item description of the ficsonium rods and then look at the huge fuck off hole at the far far north eastern most point.

[thorny root]

The only real note needed: DMR is injected as an input because I'm slooping the APM production.

Going for five powered alien power augmenter

[bleak wagon]

Im using most of the byproducts I get because its easier than trying to dispose of them

[quick gorge]

FICSIT does not waste :]

[bleak wagon]

since the chain should never stop running I shouldnt have to worry about issues

[thorny root]

Also, I can do turbo fuel and nuclear but I cannot really do much rocket fuel. I cannot spare the nitrogen. If i decide to go portal crazy later...

[bleak wagon]

caterium >> nitrogen exists if you really need it

[thorny root]

I know with this minimum configuration I can support 100+ portals.

Things start to fall apart on reasonability around the 110 portal mark.

[bleak wagon]

my favorite is reusing 3550 water/min thats a byproduct back in itself

[thorny root]

Might do. I'm not using all my caterium. Not by a long shot. ADA has asked for it as a part of the secret mission though.

[thorn bane]

keep in mind that ficsonium also uses nitrogen

[bleak wagon]

(aluminum)

[quick gorge]

Did you read the thing?

[bleak wagon]

I dont have the game open atm or I would look rn

[thorny root]

Aye. I have 3 nitrogen users: Ficsonium, Quartz Purification, and Non Fissile Uranium

That's it.

Everything else is production that does not stay running full time.

[bleak wagon]

Im thinking about doing quartz purification and savnig me quartz on silica for aluminum

[thorn bane]

do it, its awesome

[thorny root]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=iicAwZtMkIOPCp2akdHn do it

I already did the work for you.

[bleak wagon]

tbh it could probably save me a lot mroe quartz than i realize

[thorny root]

Included: 2510 silica out for nuclear

[quick gorge]

"Ficsonium is what FICSIT on the map. Literally, the crater is still there."

[thorny root]

I'm gonna call ur put

[quick gorge]

The top right most part of the map looks like a huuuge fuck off hole.
But that's a theory, a #story-spoilers theory

[bleak wagon]

Oh my god, removing all the cheap silica from my plan has reduced the limstone cost by 7500

[thorny root]

crazy right?

[bleak wagon]

indeed

[quick gorge]

Not soo cheap now is it?

[bleak wagon]

clearly not

[thorny root]

But leave cheap silica in. Take DEFAULT silica out. Take PURE quartz out. Leave only distilled silica, quartz purification, and cheap silica.

This is the combo you want.

Cheap silica saves your quartz by mashing it with limestone, and you suppliment that with the silica you distill from the other. This gives you enough silica for MAX aluminum without choking the hell out of your quartz, it doesn't hit your nitrogen too bad, and it leaves you a nice 4.3k quartz crystal to make insulated crystal oscillators, crystal computers, etc

You avoid the alt recipes that use silica from here out

[bleak wagon]

yeah I only need 2500 quartz crystals

istg im about to just start packaging byproduct water and sinking it

[thorny root]

That is half the function of the stackager I built.

It's a water recycling facility.

[quick gorge]

So you're saying you're flushing it?

[thorny root]

All I need to make it functional are priority mergers.

Just waiting on 1.1

[bleak wagon]

well i reduced my quartz cost by 2k

[thorny root]

no my plan is to full on recycle it. all the water is provided by packaged water anyway. TO use it, it has to be unpackaged. I'm just going to take the output lines and route them right back into the system that unpackaged the water in the first place, using a portion of the empties that it came out of.

[thorn bane]

packaged water 🤮

[thorny root]

This is the tool I have chosen to deal with my water recycling.

Ficsit does not waste.

[thorn bane]

buidling packagers is a waste 🙃

[thorny root]

Good thing I already built it.

[quick gorge]

FICSIT also likely killed most life on Earth but that's besides the point

[bleak wagon]

im back up to my previous limestone cost and clsoe to my quartz cost before, Im not so sure this is worth it in my nuclear plant

[thorny root]

Nevermind that, we're here to ficsit.

[quick gorge]

We're here to UNFOKIT

[amber edge]

trains carry more water canisters, smart choice

[thorny root]

The volume I'm dealing with is actually too large to train. So I'm packaging it and then using it above where it's being packaged and pumped up.

[amber edge]

1200 on belt instead 600 in pipe as well

[thorn bane]

ye i also like turning my water into canisters a 60/min
SIXTY
PER MINUTE
thats 10 for a 600/min pipe

[thorny root]

I have 64 belts for water and 64 belts for empty return.

512 packagers, 128 pipes, 256 water extractors

[quick gorge]

The true mk3 pipe was a belt all along

[thorn bane]

my fps dropped just reading that

[thorny root]

anyway y'all have seen this already right?

[wind spade]

why not loop it back into the setup? 🤔

[amber edge]

how much free time you got

[thorny root]

that is effectively what this does.

It just takes the scenic route.

[wind spade]

yeah but why bother with packaging?

[thorn bane]

im more interested in what he does for work to afford this kind of pc

[thorny root]

This simplifies things and limits the places it can go wrong and get cfonfusing.

[wind spade]

eh, your choice

but it's very simple if you just have separate refineries running on byproduct water and separate refineries running on fresh water

[quick gorge]

Hmm just made me remember a youtube video about barreling fuels in factorio.... hmm

[thorny root]

#math-and-meta message This is not so easy to even think about how to manage the water balancing on man.

Do you see how many different directions it goes?

So I'm going to do it very linearly... bank it off... use it. Bank it on. Move on to hte next thing.

So what if the water tastes funny

[quick gorge]

They've done something to the water...
Something that makes you forget, I don't even know how I got here

[wind spade]

you don't need to connect it that way though

[thorny root]

The way in which I will need to connect this will be a pattern of linear radial symmetrical.

Similar to the refineries.

It just won't look like that exactly.

[wind spade]

looking at the water rates:

• take 8610 water from scrap, connect it to sloppy alumina (70% of machines)
• take 2342.072 water from distilled silica, connect it back to itself (80% of machines)
• make rest of water from extractors

super simple 🙂

[thorny root]

Or... belt off belt on. Everywhere. Like I've planned.

You're not wrong. There's just no reason for me to change my methods.

[bleak wagon]

theres no point in arguing about something thats already planned and ready to happen

the water packaging stuff is already built so its gonna get used

[quick gorge]

I'm going to enforce the rule of cool.
Huge water tower thingy:
pretty damn cool

[thorny root]

It really was about this. More than people realized.

[thorn bane]

cool as an image
no while moving at 3fps 🙃

[thorny root]

Yeah well guess I'm glad I got that nasa super computer eh.

[thorn bane]

oh theres no way youre not gonna struggle with that plan of yours xD

[quick gorge]

Like for fuck sake my own entire project is rule of cool.
If a factory isn't unique enough.. try again.

[quick gorge]

3 fps is.
An image. 3 of them.. a second. :3

[thorny root]

I haven't had FPS isssues yet man. I don't expect to. Not for a while.

[quick gorge]

[bleak wagon]

ive recently been dropping to like 45 fps in build mode while at my build location and I have barely anything done except for water and reactors

[thorny root]

Build mode lag is a real and apparently the bigger the blueprints you're looking at the worse it gets.

Every time you move the mouse it's scanning everything looking for attach points

[bleak wagon]

im not even looking at blueprints, its train stations

[quick gorge]

Your frames are derailing that's why silly

[thorny root]

haaaaa

[bleak wagon]

going off the rails on a crazy train

[quick gorge]

God I can't wait to make the glitch factory.. I have plans for trains there

[thorny root]

I'm so happy though... this is the last set of rubber refineries. Any further plastic rubber cycling is just going to deplete my precious little remaining fuel and rubber.

So this is the final rubber... and now however much rubber I have is howevever much plastic I don't need. That's how this is going to work.

[bleak wagon]

Im likely gonna end up with 450 items a minute going out of each cargo platform so roughly 1800 items a station which means Im gonna need A LOT of train stations for getting all my resources to my nuclear power plant

[quick gorge]

Praise the recycle loop

[thorny root]

I will have enough factories down stream of this to use most of this rubber but they will only actually produce as much as being allowed to be taken off.

This is where thing's get interesting.

Because I'm going to effectively allow parts of this factory to not function when not under load, and some of it will.

And eventually everything that isn't being used will stop while hte rest continues.

And I will have to sink something somewhere because it's a refinery but I can keep it minimal.

But I'm looking at up to 22k plastic here.

before things start choking other things

[quick gorge]

How would one design a fractal factory?... 🤔

[thorny root]

So basically I'm going to have a dial-a-finery plastic and rubber output based on how much plastic I'm taking off. However much plastic I take off is however much rubber gets continuously used or sunk.

max potential is either 16800 rubber or 22k plastic but not both

[thorn bane]

can you put a mk1 blueprint designer in a mk3 blueprint designer?

[thorny root]

no you cannot put designers in designers but you can put blueprints in designers

[quick gorge]

And that is how the mk3 was born...

[thorny root]

Of need and demand. By the people for the people.

[quick gorge]

Still can't fit everything kek

[thorny root]

It fits enough. And for the rest, there's SCIM.

All hail the copy pasta rotata method

or maybe that's just me and my weirdness

You asked how you get fractal factories...that's basically how.

You make a leg. You copy paste spin it.

Keep going until you've got your pattern. Ez.

You need to make two legs for SCIM to spin it on center.

[quick gorge]

Yeah I realises that's going to be too big

[thorny root]

And they ahve to be symmetrical.

[thorny root]

friend, this is why the godfinery is in the sky where the true kings of creation reside.

[quick gorge]

I prefer under the map
I like the void

[thorny root]

Well... For every zeus there's a hades.

[thorny root]

Might as well embrace whatever you are.

[quick gorge]

looks at the thing I've had set as my status for like a year

[thorny root]

Checks out.

[quick gorge]

I wanna make a glitch factory... that consists of a lot of this #satisfactory-experimental message

and magic glitch trains where you use SCIM to move tracks to make em teleport all over the place

[thorny root]

Yeah... so in that they basically took all the machines and moved them somewhere else, leaving the belts... which looks so ungodly jank it hurts my head to contemplate why they'd even do that except by accident.

I've... accidently broken some things like this that had to be re-done. Mostly I've avoided that now by not having to have filters set for my 'work area'

it's even higher than I am.

[quick gorge]

I want to do it because it's a very unique way of building. Don't even know what I'll be producing... maybe just bug reports

[thorny root]

-1200 reddit karma per minute

[quick gorge]

The satis reddit is kinda shit anyway.

[thorny root]

Most subreddits are intolerable echochambers.

[quick gorge]

Like embrace the chaos... this game has bugs and I want to make something magical out of them.
Sure it won't be easy but it will look trippy

[thorny root]

aesthetic symmetrical creative freedom at peak efficiency...

this is my driver

[quick gorge]

Kintsugi is a good enough example of what I'm aiming for.

I wanna take what is broken and glue it back together while highlighting the broken. That is what makes it beautiful.
I'm also naming it after one the QA guys

Again rule of cool

[crimson moat]

For gasses it is for sure 😛

600 pipe or 2x4800 belts in the same space

[quick gorge]

I'm going to bottle all the nitrogen on the map :D

[plucky tusk]

feels good man

[quick gorge]

She's holding steady captain!

[sage nexus]

nitric acid?

[crimson moat]

that's a liquid

a pair of 1200 belts are still denser than two 600 pipes, but takes a ton of machines to package/unpackage so it's not denser overall

gasses package 4:1 and take few machines to package/unpackage

[thorn bane]

wait i never checked
holy shit thats horrible

[crimson moat]

Yeah

a non-overclocked unpackager outputs 240 nitrogen. Or 20 nitric acid lol

[sage nexus]

should I just send the liquid unpackaged by train then?

[thorn bane]

just pipes for days

[crimson moat]

IIRC it's a bit easier/better to package if using trains for liquid.. but generally dont move liquid

every option sucks

for nitric acid, you move the nitrogen and make acid on site

[thorn bane]

literal 1km pipe just for starter oil xd

[sage nexus]

wait I meant sulfuric acid ,_,

[crimson moat]

similar thing, move the sulphur

[sage nexus]

ah okay

[fathom warren]

Nitrogen gas can fit more than 1 "unit" into one bottle

[oblique hollow]

it fits 4 units in 1 bottle

Bot considering that nitric acid is made at a ratio of 3 to 1, its not that horrible

[thorn bane]

i was more shocked by the 20/min

[willow harbor]

Coal power plant has 8 coal generators per 3 water pumps. 5 of the ones in this bunch work perfectly and are constantly running. The red circled one has had its inventory fill up and is barely inputting any water into the system. I have the exact same setup on the other side for set of 6 water pumps and that side is working flawlessly all the way through. Anyone know how to fix this?

[craggy swift]

from what i see there you are using mk1 pipe with can contain 300 of liquid/gas but if you are using 3 water pumps you already filled up all of them

[oblique hollow]

Yes but they have 2 pipes per 3 extractors

you can see the 2nd exit on the left side, making a turn

[oblique hollow]

I think you might actually be exceeding their head lift limit slightly

Where it either manages to overcome the height due to.... pipe quirks, or it doesnt

But its hard to tell from this angle

Either way, just add pipeline pumps

low down, close to the extractors if possible

[willow harbor]

I’ll give it a try tomorrow and see what happens. Afaik they are only going up a total of 4m. Max possibly 6m. Hopefully this fixes it bc it’s starting to frustrate me having one line of 16 gens working fine but the other identical setup is broke for some odd reason

[crimson moat]

there will be slight differences, it is deterministic AFAIK but pipes are pretty sensitive if you're near their limits for flow rate and splitting at junctions unevenly. In those conditions, a slight change in the setup can cause a massive change in behavior.

i recommend simpler setups to avoid those problems, like this #math-and-meta message - basically impossible to break. It uses max 40% of the flowrate capacity and only splits evenly with a junction, not unevenly - both of those things keep your setups safe and reliable with pipes.

Keeping pipe as short as possible and with minimal (zero if possible) height change also reduces the room for impactful building mistakes.

[oblique hollow]

My bet is that the 4m incline naturally makes the 2 exit pipes want to fill the lower part first, aka all pipes near the extractors, but that involves both sides balancing each other

This is where pumps are useful, because they seperate the head lift requirement for each pipe

Its also easier to troubleshoot that way

[willow harbor]

I’ll play around with the pipeline pump before I accept the L and build the basic ones. I don’t mind doing the 1wp/3cg setup I just really like the way my power plant looked 🥺😂

[crimson moat]

Looks cool ya, just fluid manifolds are really wonky if you're anywhere near the pipe flow limits

if you're not, and you have headlift, it should be fine

[willow harbor]

Thank you for sending that # thingy tho I will probably end up needing it 😂

[oblique hollow]

just make sure the pumps are on the flat pipe parts near the extractors

[willow harbor]

Wdym

[oblique hollow]

put the pumps not on the slanted pipes going up

put them before that

[willow harbor]

Oh yeah they are before

[oblique hollow]

watch them for a while

[willow harbor]

Ignore the scribbles

[oblique hollow]

ideally, the input side of the pump should look pretty empty

you can open the water extrator UI and drag the water into the trash can in your inventory

that way you can watch it and see if it fills up again

[willow harbor]

Huh. Maybe that could get it jump started and not let it keep cutting off

[craggy swift]

it doesn't matter since there isn't a valve, so all the pipe will have a limit of 300 even if they go in different way

[oblique hollow]

it does matter.

even if the pipe segments have a limit of 300

you can use junctions to split the 360 flow up among 2 pipes

which is what this is supposed to do

never will any pipe segment here carry more than 300/min

[craggy swift]

end them the pipe will fill up since 3 water pump make 360 (120*3) of water and the pipe has a limit of 300 after a little bit all the pipe will fill up

[oblique hollow]

so how much would any of the 2 exit pipes move then?

will one just move 300/min and the other 0?

will both just do 150/min?

if both do 150/min, that means they arent being fully utilized, so they CAN move more

[craggy swift]

depending of how much water he actually use, if he use all 300 water then its fine but since the pump make more than that its not weird if one of them stop working sometime

[oblique hollow]

its 3 water extractors, none are overclocked

and the generators need 360/min

and you still didnt answer my question directly

[craggy swift]

than he need to use mk2 pipe or just split the mk1 pipe

[oblique hollow]

the pipe IS being split

its 3 extractors to 2 pipes

it doesnt matter if you use valves or pumps on the middle extractor to make it split up 50/50 on each side

you dont need that to have it split up

[craggy swift]

those pipe contains only 300 and he is making 360 it dosen't matter if they spli they just can contai all that water

[oblique hollow]

a single segment can only move 300.
Junctions do not have this limit

[craggy swift]

but the pipe does have it

and the junction connect 2+ pipe

[oblique hollow]

junctions split flow evenly among pipes

[craggy swift]

its the same thing with conveyor belt if i make 120 iron plate and you use an mk1 conveyor belt even if the split eventually they will filled up and the machine will stop working

[oblique hollow]

can you imagine, for a moment, this happening?

because then you have 60 in one pipe and exactly 300 in the other pipe

because the other 2 extractors put 240 in the right pipe

or do you think a valve is needed here to split the flow from the last extractor up into 60 and 60?

if these were all belts, the last junction would be a splitter, the other 2 would be mergers

[craggy swift]

pipe does not have direction so you have to imagine that all the water is trying to go everywhere she can

[oblique hollow]

i do imagine that

and i dont see any case where all pipes would be full

[craggy swift]

thank would work

[oblique hollow]

so you think a valve is needed to split fluid up and that it cannot do this on its own?

[craggy swift]

he ask why that water pump keep stop working and im trying to answer to that

[oblique hollow]

well, we will wait then until we receive an answer if the pumps helped

[craggy swift]

yes

thats the reason of why they put valve in the game

[oblique hollow]

what do you think would happen if i had this and removed the valves (the black-red boxes)

if the water tries to go everywhere, that would mean more of it would now go to the left pipe (the 60/min pipe)
and less to the right pipe (the 300/min one)

[frosty owl]

Actually, they put Epic first

[craggy swift]

i admit, it took me a little to get it XD

[craggy swift]

thats should work

[waxen condor]

How much Aluminum will i probably need for the entire Game ? (Numbers splitted to both sheets and chasings)

[oblique hollow]

that depends on how much you want to make later on

[craggy swift]

depending of how much stuff you want to do per minute

[oblique hollow]

aka how much time you wanna take for the last phase

if you arent sure, make a small aluminum build and then make a new, bigger one when you actually know how much you need

[oblique hollow]

you will need to use the ingots for other stuff than casings and sheets later on

which is why its not easy to predict.

[waxen condor]

i maid an 4,8k Rubber and 2,4k Plastic Factory so i want to do a bit bigger productions with it

[crimson moat]

easily thousands of ingots

[waxen condor]

i know for the ficsit ingots

would you say it is smarter to just store the ingots and transport it by Train to where i need it and craft it to what i need ?

[oblique hollow]

i personally do not think much of storing ingots

[craggy swift]

than its better if you don't think to much yet because there is a alternative recipe for aluminium that is really helpful

[craggy swift]

that depends only on you, there isn't a "right" way to play the game

[waxen condor]

i know but don't want to waste space and want to make everything organized if the amount isn't enough at the end it would be uncool to expand the building or make a second factory for aluminum

[craggy swift]

why uncool?

[waxen condor]

uncool not but it's just not as clean as if i build it once and don't need to think about it because it's enough and going back to a step you allready did for 20 to 50 hour is getting on my Mind and made me often quit the game befor i even went far

[craggy swift]

idk how you build stuff, i personally build floating platform with all my farm up there so i have a lot of space

[craggy swift]

that is really cool

[craggy swift]

just a question when did you unlocked the mk2 miner did rebuild your precedent factory?

[craggy swift]

btw you can use a website called satisfactory calculator if you want to be sure with numbers

[waxen condor]

instandly didn't even build a factory unitil Mk.2 Miner (300 Inv slots + HandMiners)

[waxen condor]

i know

[craggy swift]

ikd what to say, one of the point of the game its to improve the factory, the only think i can say its just this: do not make a big factory like that with aluminium right now, wait unti you discover abetter recipe even if its gonna take some time

[crimson moat]

After making my third or fourth aluminum plant for a build i decided to just go process like 10k bauxite in one place, and then i eventually postponed that until having mk6 belts

[ashen stirrup]

Is there a consensus on what to use for drone fuel?

[opaque quartz]

Use whatever works for you. There’s lots of options

If you are doing rocket fuel power already, it’s pretty easy to package some of it and make a fuel depot

Plutonium rods and ionized fuel both have the highest top speed

The amount of fuel used depends on the distance traveled and the energy rating of the fuel itself

[dusky dust]

As an addendum, remember that you don't have to always stick with one fuel type. On my last save I ended up split pretty evenly between batteries and rocket fuel

Just make a bunch of whatever, keep an eye on how much you're using, and then if you end up needing more, make more of whatever fuel type you feel like

[opaque quartz]

that's a good call-out. I actually have two drone networks now, the main one with RF and a smaller nuclear-specific one with plutonium rods which are just ridic as a drone fuel

a single plutonium rod lasts like 100 round trips or something

[restive sparrow]

Is water well behaved enough that you can reliably run a uranium burning nuke plant at 250% (This requires 600 water/minute)?

I know a lot of people recommend not running 600/m of practically any fluid.

[wind spade]

It's completely fine if you build pipes properly

[restive sparrow]

I would imagine this use case might be more well behaved than others since you wouldn't have any branching loads.

[opaque quartz]

two extractors at max OC into a single junction into a single pipe feeding the reactor. works fine

I have uhhh....42 NPPs running this way without issue

it's running 600/min through manifolds where you are splitting the output where you tend to get into trouble

[restive sparrow]

I figured as much. Thanks for double checking with me.

[oblique hollow]

Note: use mk 1 pipes when going out of the water extractors

Do not use mk 2 until after the junction

[restive sparrow]

What's the reasoning behind this? Trying to get the pipes coming out of the extractor to be closer to full?

[oblique hollow]

They never make more than 300/min and they should not even have the chance to output more than 300

Its not about pipe fullness, its about stable flow

[restive sparrow]

I've just defaulted to using mk2s everywhere so I'm trying to understand the justification on breaking the habit.

[oblique hollow]

No, do not use mk 2 if you dont need mk 2

Its a terrible habit in all honesty

[restive sparrow]

How will giving less headroom in the pipe create flow stability if not for making the pipe more full?

[oblique hollow]

Mk 2 has twice the speed for the same volume, meaning volume changes result in more errstic flow changes

[restive sparrow]

Huh....I thought mk2 pipes had the ability to flow faster, not that they forced faster flow.

[oblique hollow]

They are bound by their design.

For the same volume, the pressure changes twice as fast

[restive sparrow]

If they are forced into moving fluid at 600/m flow rate tha would be true. It's just an eccentricity I'd not heard before.

On another note: I've not done any long range fluid transport and I will have to for this project (acids). I see TONS of people using packaged this and that, but trains have fluid platforms. Are the fluid platforms just not very easy to work with?

[oblique hollow]

Its taste

for packaging, you need 2 cara: 1 for packaged, one for empty canisters

[frosty owl]

When you package a fluid, it changes taste. Some prefer it raw

[oblique hollow]

Meanwhile, you could just use those 2 cars for fluids directly

[restive sparrow]

That was kinda my thought pattern...I've always wondered why there is so much packaging. I've not packaged anything but 1 turbofuel/m for my jetpack ><

[frosty owl]

Do keep in mind that 2 fluid cars have similar throughput to 2 packaged-fluid cars (1 for full packages, one for empty ones)

That's ~900/min for each fluid car Vs ~2k/min for the Packaged car

[oblique hollow]

One note though: it seems that pipes dont quite save their flow rate correctly it seems?
Loading a save with nukes i find that the pipes stall initially, causing the reactor to slightly empty

Or maybe its the nukes

[restive sparrow]

1. I am not moving a ton of fluid for this particular project, but this is good to know anyways.
2. Sounds to me like raw fluids win out for transfer speed if you don't have mk6 belts and packaged noses ahead by a little bit if you do have mk6 belts.

I guess there is some sense in that mk2 pipes are old old old tech trying to compete with mk6 belts.

[frosty owl]

Well, then there's also nitrogen and it's 4:1 compression ratio...

[restive sparrow]

I am not familiar. I've done very very very little work with gasses. Maybe compression ratio is something I have to look into

Or are you referring to the ratio at which you package?

[frosty owl]

1 packaged nitrogen = 4 m^3 of fluid

So one packaged car (2k/min) can output ~8k fluid/min... That makes it easily the most appealing to package

[restive sparrow]

I'll assume from your inference that other packaged fluids don't package nearly as much volume at once.

[frosty owl]

Iirc, that's the only one that doesn't have a 1:1 ratio. I'm uncertain about the post-1.0 recipes though

Tbh, that's also why I've always either piped nitrogen directly or used drones to handle it 😆

[restive sparrow]

Side note: It's always funny to me that there is a thumbs up snut. I have a double thumbs up emoji of my own face (featuring bald head too) from back in my streaming days.

[frosty owl]

Having Nitro and being in many servers can make for an interesting experience in that regard 😆

[quick gorge]

Wouldn't that make the drones faster? Since yaknow, nitrogen is lighter then air :3

[restive sparrow]

non-nitro ghettofied sample for ya lol

[frosty owl]

Compressed nitrogen might be quite heavy 😅

[quick gorge]

In other news I think I found a solution I'm content with, re:SISushi

This looks kinda cool

And works, perfectly!

[restive sparrow]

Interesting...I've only recently been playing in 1.1 and I've found I cannot get away with clipped snapped stuff like that.

[quick gorge]

[restive sparrow]

I spent like an hour making a super compressed balancer yesterday only to find out that NONE of the lifts made connection even though they made snappy noises

[frosty owl]

The clippings though.. D:

[quick gorge]

[frosty owl]

Tbh, I have yet to trust those much 😅

[quick gorge]

There's no clipping, this is what the patented FORKED lift converter

[restive sparrow]

I do feel like some select cases of splitter/merger clippings look intentional. I don't particularly like a belt that clips over top (not pictured here) but the conveyer lift heads that clip into the splitter totally look like a unified intentional machine to me.

[quick gorge]

Yeah same, but if gives you a rough guess and if ya know the numbers should be something.. you'll know if something is off if the reader is VERY different from what you know should be going down the belt

But a sign over the top of it and BOOM!

The main reason I have the vert belt in the wall is so, from the outside you get this effect

Teeny tiny detail of the ^ arrows from the Mk6s

And no one would ever notice them unless I point them out 🙃

And totally the reason I pointed them out :3

[prisma kraken]

the new vertical splitters and mergers aren't seeming like something i'll be using tons of

they feel pretty janky to me right now

even this, which i suppose was one of the driving use cases took a bit of fiddling to build

[opaque quartz]

@restive sparrow drones lend themselves well to moving packaged fluids since a single drone can handle the empty canister/tank loop

Nitrogen gas compresses 4:1
Rocket and ionized fuel compress 2:1

Liquids do not compress at all

[restive sparrow]

WARNING: BOOK AHEAD. I'm sorry this is a complex problem to chat about.
How you guys generally approach the train logistics of having a plant that makes parts that get received by several plants. I can imagine several logistical approaches possible and unsure of which one might work best.
Lets call the supplier plant A and any plants using parts as B, C, D etc (or consumer plant, or downstream plant).

1. Completely separate stations at and trains from A, one for each part type and for each consumer plant

   • This seems least likely to have traffic problems, but would require a nightmarish amount of real estate for all of the necessary stations).

2. One single station for each part type leaving a supplier plant with one train for each of those part types, this train is then scheduled to go drop off at locations B, C, D etc. My guess is you'd give the train a separate train car for each of the locations it's expected to feed.

   • This seems nice for reducing the number of stations a little bit, but I'd be concerned about their being weird delays or hiccups in supply depending on train pickup/dropoff logic due to unmatched consumption rates at the B, C ,D locations.
   • Still need separate stations/trains for separate materials even if a downstream location might be using multiple materials from this feeder plant

3. Similar to #2 in terms of station layout but separate trains, one for each consumer plant

   • Similar concerns from #2, now with potential for trains getting in the way of each-other while trying to pick up. Possible to mitigate with timetable settings, but I'd be worried this might cause downtime if a train has to leave without picking up or dropping off

4. One single station/train for each location you're feeding with a bespoke setup of platforms taking in exactly what parts need to go to that downstream plant.
   • You minimize the number of stations at the downstream plants (one per supplier)
   • This may end up meaning a lot of stations at the supplier, or could be fewer than some other options depending on how many downstream plants you have
   • My biggest concern here is that mismatched consumption rates between different materials going through the same station could result in downtime due to pickup/dropoff timing oddities.

---

I'm leaning towards option #4 but it's unclear to me how it would perform with the material consumption rate mismatches.

inb4 nobody responds cause aint nobody gonna wanna read all of that.

[prisma kraken]

typically the use case is that a large volume part factory will only ever supply a couple of other factories. acknowledging that narrows the problem scope

[restive sparrow]

Even in this use case the biggest mental hurdles for me still exist. Part consumption rates will differ between locations, and certainly differ between different materials. Even very commonly differe between materials within the same location.

That's the biggest hurdle I'm trying to get over, and that problem exists even if factory A is only supplying 2 factories and it's only sending one material. I'm running into situations where factory A is supplying 2 locations and it's supplying multiple materials.

[prisma kraken]

what i've been finding works pretty well is to have one 4-car train per part. if i have very high volume items like plastic, rubber, concrete, you can actually manifold the delivery of the item

for low volume items, you can sushi them into a single loading station and use the train schedule's filtering feature to cherry pick the items into each train

[restive sparrow]

So you're suggesting something like option 2: one train per part type that visits each consumer one at a time (different train car unloads at each site presumably)?

[prisma kraken]

kind of, i'm probably more a fan of hybrid solutions

[restive sparrow]

Oh huh...so I could be putting stators and rotors into the same train car for example?

[prisma kraken]

or into the same station and have different trains pick up each part

[restive sparrow]

And they could do that from the same platform? Can it cherry pick out of a platform with multiple parts?

[prisma kraken]

yep

[restive sparrow]

Oh wow...I didn't know that was possible.

[restive sparrow]

On the receiving end I guess you'd just have to smart splitter your ass to victory.

Yeah I've seen the load selectability, but I assumed that would filter out entire platforms.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, sushi drop offs are something you have to be careful of however. you can create a ton of latency with it all. if you've ever done a poor man's area bus with a tractor in the early game picking up wire, you'll know what i mean

[restive sparrow]

I generally hate the idea of sushi but it almost seems like blending and sushiing the shit out of everything would be the only way to make sure absolutely all of your parts get picked up every time

I've basically never sushi'd anything.

[prisma kraken]

you have a lot of options with it all that you can choose

[restive sparrow]

I appreciate you illuminating a new option I was not aware was on the table!

[prisma kraken]

i think the important thing is to understand that you need to treat high volume and low volume part delivery differently

[dusky dust]

If you don't have buffers in place, then yeah, it can be problematic. If you properly buffer everything (generally just an ISC after each item-sort is sufficient) then it's not a problem at all

[prisma kraken]

it can still get a little funny if your delivery is a little bit cyclically uneven

[restive sparrow]

I'm just trying to set up production for my first nuke plant so other than the 900 quickwire I'm not looking at high volumes of much of anything. I was mostly just afraid of pickup timing being screwy.

[prisma kraken]

like if you're loading quickwire and hmf's into the same train, sometimes the order in which the stacks end up in the recieving station can lead to some nasty waits as a pathological example

[restive sparrow]

I'm not near a station to double check the wording but if you select the option something to the effect of "one pickup/unload" will that even pick up if the platform is not full?

Or is that puppy waiting for at least one platform to get full and pick it?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, as long as a fraction of a stack is available it'll do a transfer. changing that setting is a little bit 'funny' due to a poor design on the game's part

there really needs to be a knob for that for each train car

[restive sparrow]

So far I've only used the full load/unload options which is fine for single supplier single consumer of a single part type, but now I'm getting into some more complex territory

[prisma kraken]

as such, if you change the default, you end up with unexpectedly weird behaviors

[restive sparrow]

I think I'll have to move to single pickup/unload 🤷

[prisma kraken]

it all is stuff you can experiment with. set up a small test track to play with it as an afternoon project 🙂

i did so a long time ago and realized that some things didn't quite work as expected

what happens if you change the 'wait until' settings, it becomes really easy to block your rail network completely

the default behavior essentially boils down to 'make your best attempt in x number of seconds to do a transfer and keep moving' which is the most robust behavior. anything else becomes something you need to spend a lot of time testing.

when a train is waiting in a station, it starves all of its future deliveries and blocks future producers. the ripple effects of that become very complicated quickly.

[restive sparrow]

I'm using this 3-5 balancer as described by satisfactory calculator (https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/balancers/detail/index/id/3to5/name/3+to+5). The bottom input that is colored blue is only able to pull in 1/2 of nominal belt speed. Is that inherent to this design or did I F up my build? My brain is too shot to do the analysis.

[quick gorge]

@frosty owl :)

I think the function is done, now for the fancy

[restive sparrow]

Outputs are wonderfully balanced, but my input throughput is completely cut due to the blue leg being half of belt speed. I've double and triple checked my build which is why I'm starting to wonder if it's inherent to the design.

[lapis jetty]

its not a great angle but do yall think i will need a pipeline pump for the pipes going to the left

[frosty owl]

No. Every machine outputs with 10m of headlift, meaning you can avoid using pumps up to 2.5 walls higher

[quick gorge]

We ignore the part inputting of pure belts and inputting of the two separate mixed belt ratios

[frosty owl]

How much sanity did you lose in the process?

[quick gorge]

I am not claustrophobic.
HOWEVER
Building this did give me a lot of tight anxiety

[oblique hollow]

to all you nuclear power users and other pipe users:
please give this post a look:
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/680404866b7c573196367fe2

also whoops, wrong save file

i corrected it now

[quick gorge]

The only problem here I can foresee is that not all the belts from the miner to the logistics scrambler are not equal distance, I'm looking at you copper line 3 you silly goose.

I would like to be able to have it be turned off, for cinematic reasons

[frosty owl]

Speaking of tight spaces... Did you ever come across a recording of my logistic floors?

[quick gorge]

I skimmed your yt, I did just want to crack on

[frosty owl]

I have no suggestions in that regard other than trying to make them all the same length :/
one way to measure could be adding a merger right after the miner and connecting that to a container in which you put a set amount of items, so you know that the belt is "x items long" once the items start backing up all the way to the merger

[quick gorge]

Plan B:
underflow to sinks you can just cut power to once the belts are correctly mixed

[frosty owl]

The "Sushi Galore" video showsoff some nice sub-floors. Tight spaces, but lovely with all the lights and such (also not very cluttered).
Sorry, I got lost in memories of places I can't even visit anymore 😅 (nuclear recipes involved have changed)

[quick gorge]

I did glance at nuclear fun :)

I already have an access point to the void to run my power cables to the miners, might as well shove sinks under there too

[frosty owl]

I like to call those "warm up diverters", or WUD. They can be handy to control sushi remotely with power switches. Though ADA says I should avoid using them in the morning...

[quick gorge]

With how ADA is acting in exp I don't shit a shit what she says.
I know she's based on Glados but I didn't know she has an asshole core installed >:(

[frosty owl]

Ficsit had a bit of a negative influence in the development of ADA's mentality

[lapis jetty]

thank you

I just did maths and i need 40 fuel powerd generators

[mint sparrow]

sinking 362 dna capsules it will take a while. i wonder how much ill get since these are the first ones

it is 50

[lapis jetty]

Smth tells me my power grid isnt stable

[summer flare]

What are the input rates? That design will have issues if all inputs are the maximum rate of the belt used. It's doing a six way split as three splits of two so the output merger outputs will be full and not be able to take the additional loopback being done to give five outputs.

[warm blade]

I have some ancient bug with industrial storage containers
If you been screwed by industrial storage outputs this is reason why.
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/68040ea96b7c573196367ffd

[oblique hollow]

industrial containers never acted as splitters

what that post describes is that it expects them to act like one

[quick gorge]

Intended behaviour, no action needed.
Have a nice day

[lapis jetty]

All this for 10gw of power

Hopefully it stabalises

[ashen stirrup]

I have a factory that has some machines running on byproduct water, and other machines that run on water extractor water. There's slightly more byproduct water than those machines are consuming. Is there a way to feed that byproduct water into the main water line such that the main water line prioritizes byproduct water over extractor water?

[pastel obsidian]

There is

https://youtu.be/pKtRonvHlFc?

It's at 8 minutes 30.

[dusky dust]

The easiest way, IMO, is to just make use of underclocking so that the machines using the recycled water use all of it

(And likewise for fresh water)

[ashen stirrup]

That's certainly what I thought I did when planning out this factory. My plan connected with reality, though, and found that it didn't necessarily want to comply.

I could go and underclock those scrap refineries that produce the byproduct, but then later stages of production would end up short on aluminum

After reading the fluids guide, I think this is working

The byproduct line leading up to the pump is emptying, at least

[restive sparrow]

Clearly using an industrial container at the input/output of a freight platform is good practice and likely even intended behavior given how everything lines up. What about fluid platforms? Industrial fluid containers are grossly huge and don't line up with a damn thing. Also they have only 1 port.

[wind spade]

see e.g. #design-and-architecture message or #design-and-architecture message

[restive sparrow]

Some of those layouts are interesting...driving input into both sides of the buffer.

[tawdry blade]

If in doubt, use 600 pipes for 300 throughput system

even if you feel like a clown doing that

[thorn bane]

overclock the byproduct machines so they can consume the extra water

[ashen stirrup]

For sure, I use 600 pipes for everything

[ashen stirrup]

They'll get backed up because their other inputs aren't coming in at the overclocked rate

[crimson moat]

you can sink output overflow and generally i would recommend having that set up anyway on a few stages for failsafing

it's just a waste of bauxite if you're generating that scrap and sinking it, so maybe a concern far down the line

[ashen stirrup]

It's moreso that my bauxite input rn isn't enough to sustain overclocked refineries

Oh, I guess if I could figure out the exact amount of overflow, I could balance underclocking some and overclocking others to fix it

[crimson moat]

what are your bauxite input and recipes

[ashen stirrup]

Bauxite is at the weird number so I have a bit of breathing room on the 600/min miner

I did this factory to experiment with pure recipes for the first time. I learned that while you can do a ton with them, all the complicated makes things hard to troubleshoot

[crimson moat]

90 input water into the first refinery will handle 300 bauxite total, after including waste water

180 for 600, but you need a lot of waste water refineries to keep up.

at those numbers, with waste water refineries merged into their own inputs and fed by a discrete fresh water refinery, their output water will always be equal or less than input

just make sure that the waste water ones overflow their inputs into the fresh one, rather than vice versa. If only some refineries run somehow, they should be waste.

[dusky bronze]

is it worth going for ficsonium?

[crimson moat]

probably not with the current balance (the amount of resources, power and sloops that it takes to do it well can generate more power by doing other things, e.g. like converting more stuff to uranium to burn and then sinking plut rods)

[dusky bronze]

planning a nuclear plant and not sure if the power i get is worth the effort/resources

[crimson moat]

and also if you're trying to generate less than 630gw you dont even need to convert to uranium because there is that much on the map

[dusky bronze]

yeah

im planning to use all the uranium

might just sink it at plutonium fuel rods because if you go beyond that you have a lot more work to do lmao

[crimson moat]

for 1-2tw scale with zero waste i think you still just make more uranium and process them into plutonium rods, but i have not checked all of the numbers to make sure that everything works at that scale

[dusky bronze]

all the uranium + plutonium + ficsonium is around 630GW right

[crimson moat]

uranium only, without making more, is 630gw gross

[dusky bronze]

is that with slooping everything

[crimson moat]

no sloop

[dusky bronze]

oh i just suck at math ig

the plan i was using just had different recipes and it was giving me half the power lmao

[thorn bane]

use a smart splitter to send bauxite to recycled first and overflwo to fresh water

[crimson moat]

There might be problems converting even 630gw worth of uranium waste into plutonium rods

[dusky bronze]

is it more efficient to go straight to plutonium pellets or use one of the non fissile uranium alts

wait

[crimson moat]

yeah i am not really sure about that

[thorn bane]

fertile is bait

[crimson moat]

which recipies to use to get the most power with 0 uranium waste leftover, without burning plutonium rods

[dusky bronze]

i think you could go straight to plutonium pellets or non fissile uranium

non fissile uranium>plutonium cells is best i think

[thorn bane]

22 pasta 🙃

[ashen stirrup]

How so?

[dusky bronze]

you need to use uranium ore instead of turning it into fuel

[thorn bane]

uranium is very valuable you dont wanna waste it

[dusky bronze]

one that im doing gets me 22.4 instead of 12.8

[thorny root]

It looks like there is nothing that uses Ion Fuel for productions, and it is a final and basically just for the jetpack since it doesn't make sense to make it for power production...

[dusky bronze]

just jetpack fuel, yes

i think its is very good jetpack ful tho

[thorn bane]

it you wanna sink plutonium waste then it also makes more non-fissile which is bad cause you wanna get rid of it

[crimson moat]

Ion makes sense for jetpack and for drone fuel etc

it can make sense for power production but is much more likely to do so with sloops involved due to differences between gross and net power.

[thorny root]

yeah nah I'm going nuclear for my power needs I just wanted to make sure I wasn't ... Neglecting an actual need.

[thorn bane]

if youre sinking plutonium rods then you wanna use the least efficient plutonium recipes
aka no unit no instant

[crimson moat]

The amount of plutonium rods made is irrelevant if they are not being burned, what matters is how much uranium you can burn and still get rid of - and how much of which resources that requires.

[dusky bronze]

ok so with the most efficient recipes you get 1.5TW going all the way to fisconium