math-and-meta

[amber edge]

im german, this is why i absolutely stand aganist this concept and the shape of it "ITS BUDDHIST, IT WAS GREAT SHAPE" my man, they stole shape from it and it wasnt good at all, just disgusting symbol now

[quick gorge]

Purley geometry wise, I like the shape reeee

[tawdry blade]

im german as well and I dont give a shit, its an ancient symbol and also a quite common geometzric pattern,
and if you arent trying to signal your bald friends that you are one of them, there is no harm in utilizing it.

[amber edge]

you should be appalled and stand aganist this with all of your passion, for freak sake, we should hold the responsibility to ensure it never happen again

[quick gorge]

The amount of fucking times I build a machine in minecraft and boom! it turns out to be that shape and my friends points and laugh... Bruh it's the most effective way to build that

[amber edge]

there is other shapes

[frosty owl]

Maybe let's not bring politics into a game? 😅
Let the kids play, don't take their garbles as something meaningful

[tawdry blade]

To never let history repeat itself the root has to be dealt with. The root is collectivism and authoritarianism.
The antidote to fascism and communism alike is sovereignty of the individual and a society that upholds the value of human life,
not the ban of an obscure symbol.

Bite me lol. Whats next, travel to india and scream at monks?

[amber edge]

right but unfortuately the symbol is still used as hate symbol

[frosty owl]

So we get mad when NOT used as such...

[amber edge]

it is not "obscurity in past" it is not even 100 year ago and still in effect

[tranquil mortar]

soooo guys those supercomputer recipes am i right?

[quick gorge]

Hello to my two german bros I sent over here <3

[opaque quartz]

Tell me whyyy
Ain’t nothing but a heartache

[quick gorge]

Tell me WHHHYYY

[tawdry blade]

Well, time to take the backstreet, boys.

[quick gorge]

Please...

[amber edge]

anyhoo, im in middle of paving over blue crater lol

[tawdry blade]

Same just in layers lol

[frosty owl]

BTW, I'd appreciate it if you let me know when/if you happen to try out something along these lines, @tawdry blade

[tawdry blade]

I will at some point, currently not my objective tho.

[frosty owl]

Would you happen to know where that convo was or some keywords to find it?
I'm always curios about opinions and happenings about sushi, but heard nothing about this! :O

[opaque quartz]

I was still catching up on scrollback, didn’t know my Backstreet Boys joke would be so timely to interrupt a convo

[cerulean stratus]

alright I found who the guy was and the convo

it was you!

[frosty owl]

In #1201555265942724758 ?! O.o

[cerulean stratus]

it was about this thing

[frosty owl]

Ohhh. That throws me back...
I guess I might have posted there about that just once...
Sorry for the confusion 😅

Thanks for taking the time to actually find out 😆

[cerulean stratus]

I still have no idea how that thing works

[frosty owl]

The one in picture?
It's a Programmable Splitter being told to "load-balance" the listed items on the listed outputs

[cerulean stratus]

but I guess it's about this

[frosty owl]

Using a smart or normal splitter, the items get split pretty randomly, leading to non-balanced sushi

[quick gorge]

Yeah I can't find a better way to do single belt sushi that is space effective

[frosty owl]

Something very similar, just for Uranium Fuel Rods Manufacturers (the ones in that picture are fed by a single belt split the same way, but they allow the overflow of Electromagnetic Control Rods)

[frosty owl]

Tbf, manifolds are already very Space-effective. Single-input wins easily in compactness over balanced setups, but is rarely more compact than manifolds

[quick gorge]

I want aesthetics over being compact but if the compactness is what gives it the aesthetics...

[frosty owl]

It does show stuff off better in the same space though (since less splitters are covering the beltwork)

[quick gorge]

And that 4 manu thing I had goes fits super snug

[amber edge]

whats the difference to normal splitters at this point?

[cerulean stratus]

does this kind of thing only work with precise numbers?

[cerulean stratus]

the normal splitter goes 1,2,3
this one each item has their own 1,2,3 counter

[amber edge]

ic ic, i dont do sushis, i guess this is actual use for programmer splitter

[frosty owl]

Whenever a belt going into a machine's input carries more than one kind of item, there is no way to manage overflow, so the numbers for all such items must be perfect to avoid the system from clogging (sooner or later)

Overflow management is what gives leeway in the input numbers as all overflow is... Well, managed ^^

[quick gorge]

Unlike single belt machine input... there is no leeway

And that is what I want here, but there isn't a better design that people on reddit won't point to

[frosty owl]

Or so one would hope... But weirdly enough, this may actually be an "unintended" feature... The devs are yet to address this

[amber edge]

at least PM is coming

[frosty owl]

What do you mean, with the Reddit part?

[quick gorge]

A joke about reddit

[amber edge]

priority mergers

[frosty owl]

Which only makes me more irritated about how they have yet to address my Programmable Splitter question through the years...

[cerulean stratus]

You want the pm?

[quick gorge]

looks at clock
mhm yes it is the pm

[amber edge]

eh i already can do anything it will offer, just saves space and some logistics

i bet you want it more since ur the sushi guy

[cerulean stratus]

Pm are kinda helpful for managing sushi because you want to have a main line and other lines coming to it, and if it overflows you go to another main line
So priority mergers are good there

[frosty owl]

@thorn bane is probably one of the most excited about Priority Mergers, between all "sushi-belters" I know ^^

[cerulean stratus]

But I'm more excited of belt logic, I started to do a 7 segment display that went 0-9

[frosty owl]

I'm more on the "meh" side 😅

[amber edge]

auto connection and lift mergers is what im most excited for, game changers, i might start over with 1.1 so i have .8 world, 1.0 world and 1.1 world

[cerulean stratus]

One of these

[frosty owl]

That... Sounds like a lot of work

[quick gorge]

I'm content with this

[amber edge]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-ill-allow-it-okay-alright-gif-15634749

[quick gorge]

Bruh

[frosty owl]

I cannot forget the one madlad who made a "programmable factory", where they could order the production of one stack of one item by just placing one of "Item" inside a "control storage container", all with lights and such that would turn on as the coal plants powering the part of the factory that just got activated started running...

Absolutely crazy level of complexity and signaling, all wirhout mods

[cerulean stratus]

Show me

[amber edge]

triangle is the best geometry

they make hexagon

the bestagons

[quick gorge]

I need pictures of spiderman programable factory

[frosty owl]

Sorry, I don't have Reddit anymore :/
I'll try to look it up later, from PC

[quick gorge]

This is also in my test world

[cerulean stratus]

I guess it's about a make anything machine

[amber edge]

i cant decide if thats amazing or appalling lmao those curvy belts at bottom got me

[cerulean stratus]

The issue with these things is, you still have to make machines

But they won't work until you tell them to

[quick gorge]

This is the prototype for my Western Rocky desert build.

[amber edge]

cool design btw, those belts what i wouldnt do lol but i like the snowflake layout, cool

but firstly, i want to ask

what in name of satan is this

[quick gorge]

I needed them to be a hexagon since 24/6... so I just needed to get a 6th of the machines to function and copy the same thing around the hex.
Those are alternating between copper and iron alloy (they are painted to denote)

[quick gorge]

#satisfactory-experimental message

ANNND the fact I'm in a desert makes it extra funny that it is a snowflake so it passes all my requirements to be a perfect fit for my factory

[frosty owl]

Kind of?
From what I gathered, the factory was all idle and only the necessary parts went online when necessary. The complicated part was all the controlling logic (done via beltwork) that made it possible to basically:

• Put 1 item in the "input container"
• Expect 1 stack of that item to come from the "output container", via some belt wizardry
• Have a control panel with lights connected to the factory showing the factory working IRL (by connecting the lights to individual power plants powering small sections of the factory)
  I reckon the last one felt needed because the system takes quite a while to react and output anything

[quick gorge]

I would like a sushi master to review this. I might end up using a different snowflake design honestly

[frosty owl]

I recall that I had a small convo with the creator, wondering if item duplication could cause issues for their system

[frosty owl]

I think it's a very interesting design and can't find faults with it ^^
The only "improvement" could be reducing the belts from two to one per machine, if you wanted some extra "spice", I guess

[quick gorge]

Having only one belt goto the foundry will clog it

[wind spade]

unless the belt has exact ratio on it

[frosty owl]

It shouldn't if:

• The input is stable and precise (which I think is the case, as you mentioned not wanting sinks)
• The sushi is split evenly

[quick gorge]

The sushi is defo not even 😅

[frosty owl]

If the inputs aren't stable and there's no overflow management, the whole system is going to halt eventually ^^

[quick gorge]

I have 600 iron, 300 copper on the input belt;
and the recipes/belt filters are now coloured more clearly

[frosty owl]

Eg: a lack of Coal for Steel could result in the entire sushi belt being filled with Iron and stalling

[quick gorge]

It is soo uneven in soo many ways

[frosty owl]

Maybe we're just talking past one another 😅
When I say the input should be "precise and stable" I mean:

• the sushi belt should carry an exact amount of items/min (like 300/min)
• The amount provided should be stable overtime (no issue due to lack of input from the producers or long-range transports)

If you have both, you can easily avoid overflow and even having to use all input of a machine. But without those 2 points, it's hard/impossible not to rely on overflow management to make things work in the long run

[viral sparrow]

they make everygon

[quick gorge]

I've had this running fine for hours now, 900 new ore and the feedback is giving another 120ish

[amber edge]

precisely, this is why 3d modelling always triangulated

[restive sparrow]

The idea of all of these things crammed together is great an all (let's ignore the shape for a moment), but how would you even get anything out of the machines. The output ports are crammed into the sides of other machines.

Whoa whoops I was mega scrolled up.

[quick gorge]

Discord moment

[amber edge]

that was entire ass 3 conversations ago

[restive sparrow]

Kinda weird sometimes when you swap to a channel and you're scrolled to the moon

[amber edge]

it just means the last place u was in

however i still think just lifts over manu is most space efficent

[quick gorge]

It's soo annoying because half the time it doesn't even say "scroll to latested message" until you send something

and by that point you're replying to the thing that was said 4 hours ago

[amber edge]

thing i hate the most is im getting pinged and see nothing as it just got pushed into all way into old convo

"who the heck just responded or pinged me"

[restive sparrow]

I'm still just into using logi floors since vertical space is plenty

[amber edge]

i wish there is better way to see people responding to me or pinging me

[viral sparrow]

yeah that's what happened to me lol

[frosty owl]

I think the output all merge together further down, where the input items are managed too

[restive sparrow]

Though I'm starting to feel it as I have to belt together the outputs of 10 story buildings ><

[viral sparrow]

i mean there is notification section on discord for both pc and mobile that lets you see where you've been pinged

[restive sparrow]

You mean clipped through the machine?

[quick gorge]

Anyways I don't what belts I can remove without the snowflake clogging up ;-;

[amber edge]

yeah but sometimes its just clustered with other discords announcements and server wide pings

[frosty owl]

Have you tried the button that lists all the times/places you've been mentioned in servers?

[amber edge]

im in like 3 dozen discord channgels xd

[frosty owl]

No, the lifts connected to the belts from the outputs just go down

I don't think there is any clipping happening

[quick gorge]

There was not, I am hard focusing on making things look not shit, nor a big box

[amber edge]

marvel rivals discord pings daily like nothing, i should just leave it at this point lol

[viral sparrow]

turn those off if you don't read them ig

[amber edge]

yeah i dont get notifcation but they show up in the notication list among with replies

[amber edge]

yes yes yes

they all are muted

[frosty owl]

If the system can run without overflow management AND you learn how to sushi-load-balance, you could remove one belt per Foundry ^^ (the number and position of the splitters shouldn't need changing)

[amber edge]

see my notifcation list is clustered with it

[quick gorge]

I would need to redesign the snowflake to be, more... fractally to make it load balanced

[frosty owl]

Check the options to disable notifications for @ everyone and @ here in specific servers or channels

[amber edge]

hm will do that ig

[quick gorge]

hahahah who wants to share snowflake designs so I can load balance? 🙃

[amber edge]

ngl im going on side of 300 gw rocket fuel plant over nuclear plant, its just so much simpler

1200 pm crude oil into 4800 rocket fuel

[frosty owl]

I don't think you'd need to change the shape of the beltwork. The only change would be removing some belts, switching the splitters to Programmable ones and maybe dividing some belts in more belt segments (details in Sushi-balancing tutorials)

[vapid gorge]

how many hundreds of gens is that?

[amber edge]

1150 or 460 overclocked

[vapid gorge]

or it'd be 46 nuclear gens

[amber edge]

ive done this bad boy before

[vapid gorge]

with much less piping

[amber edge]

its 48

piping is too easy tho

[vapid gorge]

and honestly the base uranium rod recipe is very simple

[amber edge]

yeah but ill need 24 rod pm

which isnt even possible

its so simple

[vapid gorge]

you can do 21 with base. Use 1 of the alt recipes to squeeze a touch more out

[amber edge]

i just need to make 2 more of it

[frosty owl]

Or just sloop some? ^^

[amber edge]

voila 450 gw

[vapid gorge]

yeah sloop a couple machines

[amber edge]

pipes is just straight, like literally just straight into 57 fuel gens

do that 4 times, thats it

nuclear deals with like 3 liquids

[vapid gorge]

4x57 isn't 460

[amber edge]

57.5

[frosty owl]

BTW, @vapid gorge did you notice how smaller the number of machines for maximized coupons productions have become? ^^
We went from 40~50k to 15k-ish

[amber edge]

oh its just 140 gw plant, im talking about my first one

[vapid gorge]

I have not 🙂 haven't played for a long while

[frosty owl]

I haven't played either, but I have played with numbers some 😅

Future plans or whatnot...

[vapid gorge]

and I've never paid attention to point generators. Just cram stuff in

[amber edge]

you call this lot of piping?

[vapid gorge]

that is, objectively, a ton of piping

[amber edge]

i feel like this is much less than piping needed to feed all of water

its 4/5 bp then 1/5 connecting

[vapid gorge]

nah, npps above water and you have short tiny pipes

and also ... 1/10th the generators

[frosty owl]

I mainly find it a convenient "reference point". Like: the biggest factory using all resources efficiently (from a coupon perspective) with all alt recipes would be this big

[amber edge]

not that bad if you just spam bp

[vapid gorge]

it is a bit odd it shrunk so much

[amber edge]

long part is waiting for motors being produced, hence which is why i made 100pm motor lol

[vapid gorge]

that doesn't stop there from being massively ugly infinite fields of generators

there's zero methods for making that look good

[amber edge]

that is the finest german engineering, all about efficiency

[vapid gorge]

eh, circuit board factories, imo, is accepting failure

[amber edge]

4 straight pipes into 230 generators or 48 mk2 pipes full of water feeding 48 plants

96 water extractors

to just 4 for the rocket fuel

[frosty owl]

Do note that this comes from the guy who builds circles rather than rectangles as a standard 👆

Many preferences make for many perspectives~

[vapid gorge]

You don't need to build circles to build nice looking stuff 😛

by % most of the very pretty things made in the game isn't circular

[frosty owl]

Some may argue against that ahahah

[amber edge]

Ive paved over blue crater, im sure fields of fuel gens is more prettier than ugly biome

[vapid gorge]

nah, you can do some great things with the cliffs there

[quick gorge]

How dare you insult our lovely Hanhan >:(

[vapid gorge]

like a bunch of nice looking factories that are fairly vertical on the sides of the crater, feeding more complex parts to the centre of the lake

[amber edge]

ah what a pretty foundation, no visual of blue crater

[quick gorge]

[frosty owl]

Isn't that just because you were in the "learning phase" still?

[vapid gorge]

also because I can't output enough architecture to put a dent in everyone elses creations

[amber edge]

why do you think im most active at here not design

im mathematician at heart not builder

[vapid gorge]

eh, I did my maths/astrophysics degree. You can still do pretty and use 3 dimensions to their full

just think about vectors or something 😛

anyway, sleep time for me. 1am

[quick gorge]

I see Sushi as technical art, mathematical art in a sense... so I'm vacationing here.. 🙃

[frosty owl]

Sushi is Life, sushi is ShrekLove~

[amber edge]

im major in IT/CS tho, this is i mostly design factories like how i would code lmao

[quick gorge]

Sushi-balancing tutorial
I'mma need a link to the best one.

[quick gorge]

I'm just autistic :)

[amber edge]

but thinking to switch to astrophysics or engineering, I love those subjects

[vapid gorge]

I mostly did astro to avoid more pure maths units. Half of the astro units also counted as maths

[frosty owl]

I might be biased, but I think this is the best if not only one... https://youtu.be/EiQuFIx9Rlg
@quick gorge

[amber edge]

lol, i have hundreds of hours into KSP

[vapid gorge]

and technically it netted me a minor in physics too??

[amber edge]

over double of what i have in satisfactory

[quick gorge]

i MiGhT bE bIaSeD
really now?

[amber edge]

astrophysics is physics lol

[frosty owl]

Please don't report me for self-promo!

[vapid gorge]

it was more mathy xD

applied maths

[quick gorge]

Don't worry, I'm one of those cool cops

I only report the bad crimes

[amber edge]

hm, im still second year into college plan to go uni next year. so i got time to decide which major is best for me, i just went with it/cs cuz of trend

i opened with biochemistry major tho lmao

just didnt want to do 12 years of school

[quick gorge]

From a technical standpoint why do programmables work like that?

[frosty owl]

I've asked the devs...
Still waiting for an answer...
Since a few years

[amber edge]

i guess each items have their own counter for splitting ratio, maybe it is intentional

you can always ping and annoy the CM lol

[frosty owl]

Every update I check that they actually do still load-balance, because I fear this "feature" may be accidentally deleted somehow, since they never acknowledged it...

[quick gorge]

I will bug the guy I know to undo it

[amber edge]

@blazing wraith sorry for the ping <3, can you give us some answer for this

[quick gorge]

panic

[frosty owl]

I had a convo with Mikael about this question, he said he would maybe try nudging the team about it. Never heard since

[amber edge]

lets bug him again

[quick gorge]

Ruuude

[amber edge]

rules says we can ping 🤷‍♂️

[blazing wraith]

Face when ping mid video recording

(nah it's all g whatappwhatapp)

[quick gorge]

HELLO YOUTUBE

[amber edge]

❤️

[quick gorge]

LOOK MOM I'M ON TV!

[amber edge]

are you recording for friday video 👀 , is it 1.1 stable drop reveal????

[frosty owl]

Adding some proper context just in case:

Are the Devs aware that Programmable Splitters can load-balance (split evenly) sushi belts?
For further understanding see: #math-and-meta message

[blazing wraith]

April 25, for clarificartion x)

[quick gorge]

Shit has to be edited my guy

[amber edge]

1.1 comes on 4/25?

[blazing wraith]

Flip a coin 8 times, if heads all 8 times, yes

[amber edge]

so 1 in 256 chance, i wil ltake it

[quick gorge]

But it is a (assumed) unintended feature that only brings joy, akin to Hypertube cannons, if the programmable were changed to remove that I will poke ben lym, ben and whoever else touches belt logic until they undo it.

Don't ban me, I am a man of the people

[blazing wraith]

Can't remember this discussion, sorry, may have been a while or something I never dove deep into - I'll chuck it on the note I'm bringing with for next Prog stand-up, getting a check in with them, can report back after then

Which will be Tuesday cuz Easter holidays n shit

[frosty owl]

It was a while back, I wasn't really hoping for you to remember still 😅
Thank you anyway for answering :). Would it be useful if I threw you the QA link describing the question?

[blazing wraith]

More like 4/10000

IIRC

[blazing wraith]

Ofc, and yes please!

[amber edge]

its 1^8/2^8 which is 1/256

[blazing wraith]

Ooooh waaaaait

10 choose 8/2^10

Yeee

Yeeeee

I'm dumb

[oblique hollow]

Mikael Math Monday when

[amber edge]

ur still good, we love you still ❤️

[frosty owl]

Here's the link: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/65bfd3eb1545556f6c1c6445
The post should contain enough info to understand the topic, including a video demonstration, but ofc I'll be aviable if there's need of any clarification

[blazing wraith]

Blesssss

Ait bois I'm out cya rounnddd

[frosty owl]

Have a good rest of the day 👋

[frosty owl]

So, uhm... Thanks for making things happen, I guess...

[amber edge]

https://tenor.com/view/cool-story-bro-sand-boarding-thumbs-up-gif-25468738

[amber edge]

good tip for life, be assertive, dont assume and sit aback

[amber edge]

G fucking G

[frosty owl]

I have kept asking on different platforms, I just didn't "dare" ping here on DS again 😅

[quick gorge]

I'll see you fuckers on the 25th

[amber edge]

https://tenor.com/view/wedding-crasher-hro-gif-25636997

[dusky dust]

I assume you're basically meaning this, yes?

[oblique hollow]

still not ideal because its only 2 junction exits.
also - mk 1 pipe

[quick gorge]

Anyways, back to snowflake sushi thingy

[oblique hollow]

but in general:
"Even" split ( a fair flow rate split between all exits) is prefered over uneven
3-way split is prefered over 2.-way split
Mk 1 pipes where mk 1 suffices

[dusky dust]

What would an "ideal" loop look like for that hypothetical layout, btw? Where would the third junction exit go?

(I'd assumed that maybe an image update was warranted, figured I'd mock some stuff up)

[oblique hollow]

ideally, the third one would connect straight down

which in your layout is not doable without clipping or the pipe crying "invalid shape"

[frosty owl]

Just attach the input to the junction below, that also feeds one refinery

[oblique hollow]

or that

thats topologically identical

[frosty owl]

The fact that the "loop" is above the rest of the pipework doesn't matter?

[oblique hollow]

no

doesnt offer any benefit at all over loops on the same height

[dusky dust]

eh?

[oblique hollow]

more like it

but also, you could literally just attach the input to the middle junction and be done

no loops needed

[dusky dust]

mm, not following, sorry

What would be the ideal case if you've got an even number of machines, btw? Preferrable to just split the input in 2 instead? To preserve "even" flow on both sides?

[oblique hollow]

just attach the input to the middle of all the machines

[dusky dust]

(for some defintion of "even" where the machine cycles are unlikely to be in sync. :D)

Heh, sorry, maybe I'm just not frosty enough to be doing this today

[crimson moat]

You don't need to do any of this fuckery to unbreak manifolds when you have 3 machines. Just put a 1:3 splitter and it will split evenly

[frosty owl]

I think what apo is worried about is: if you have an even number of machines and do what you just said, you end up with the input feeding into a 2-way junction instead of 3-way

[oblique hollow]

what, because it goes perfectly even into 2 machines using 300/min each?

[dusky dust]

I know; this is in service to creating a new "how to make pipes good" image that's easily shareable but incorporates this newer advice, a la #screenshots message

[oblique hollow]

thats an even split

[dusky dust]

This isn't an actual factory I'm building, just looking to mock up a setup that's shareable and conveys information about the "best" ways to pipe things up

[oblique hollow]

just because theres cases where some split is preferabe over others doesnt mean that the "less preferable" ones are dysfunctional

I was just trying to show the "best case" initially

and no, the machines dont need to synchronize their period cycles production cycles

[frosty owl]

No, just...
You said it's ideal to have the input go into a 3-way. This is easily done in the prior example because theachines are an odd number so the center of the pipework aligns with a 3-way junction. But if there's an even number of machines, one should add a 2-way junction between 2 machines to attach the input to.
Please do correct me if I'm misunderstanding @dusky dust ^^

[dusky dust]

But yeah, my question was essentially if we knew which one takes precedence re: "Even" split ( a fair flow rate split between all exits) is prefered over uneven versus 3-way split is prefered over 2.-way split

'cause it feels like with an even number of machines you'd have to choose one over the other

(If we don't know that answer, of course, fair enough. :D)

[crimson moat]

you can put an extra junction between two and do both

[oblique hollow]

if you only have 2 machines, then a 2,way is fine
if you mean you have 2n machines, then there is always room to have a junction someplace that splits 2n perfectly in half

[dusky dust]

That's true, ish, though that extra junction you put in will then only have 2 exits, so you're really just pushing it further down the line. :D

[crimson moat]

In this case i am quite convinced it's better to address the issue closer to the root cause, and e.g. split the manifold into arms to avoid running into the flow issue in the first place

[frosty owl]

Yeah, 2n is what I was referring to, but then adding that one junction you'll have a 2-way junction taking the input instead of a 3-way (possibly problematic/unwanted?)

[crimson moat]

^that is an extreme case with 12 arms, in reality you only need probably 2 (or 3) as that functions similarly/better than loop, but you can do more for more margin or style.

[oblique hollow]

3 way would mean having it slighly off to one side.
splitting into left arm - machine straight ahead - right arm

thats still fine.

a 3 way is preferable because it offers some spare capacity

2 ways turn both outputs to 300/min

and if we go by "mk 1 if possible" this gives you 2 mk 1 pipes at max flow

[frosty owl]

That might explain yet some more of the reasons why I have so few piping issues: I tend to hook inputs onto existing junctions rather than adding new ones as the latter feels "wasteful" to me 😅

[oblique hollow]

whereas a 3-way would give you 3 mk 1 pipes at 200/min at best
with a machine straight ahead. its more like a
(600 - X) / 2
split

where X is whatever the machine ahead uses

just know that a machine with a low demand for fluid will result in the pipe straight ahead cycling between 0 and high flow rate

resulting in the 2 splits to each side also slightly oscillating

which is usually fine

[crimson moat]

i think you are overcomplicating it for no benefit, but risk of people screwing it up if they build it slightly wrong

Y axis pipes aren't neccesary, different amounts of flow from source to drain aren't. At best they'll produce the same result as pre splitting

and they have to jump through more hoops and specification to manage it

[oblique hollow]

For Mk 2 Pipes at 600, all that really matters is "just dont have the junction split the fluid ultra unevenly"

a little bit uneven is fine

[amber edge]

Idk I like to put pipes into sections, don’t like doing loops and load balancing

Keep it as simple as possible

[crimson moat]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/1361015957493125160/image-1.png?ex=6801d5a2&is=68008422&hm=648c23df61a7f3f975a9c599d7c7451780261c2ea3931ae294218e05cb800b35& that is this (but instead of 1:12 splitter, just use 1:2 or 1:3)

[oblique hollow]

the only real mistake is having your junctions split 2 way where one arm is a machine using a really low amount and the rest of the fluid going straight ahead to the next junction

thats an "ultra uneven split" and mk 2 dont like it

[amber edge]

I would just put them in straight line but this works as well

[crimson moat]

you can do with multiple pipes (just run the second pipe over the first, or split in the middle and go outwards) but it's the least complex and safest way to do it, simultaneously, i believe

[oblique hollow]

a 3 way split with ultra uneven usage also counts as a "dont" for mk 2
which in the case of fuel generators (specifically turbo and other "low demand" fuels) is the case

[amber edge]

Yeah I mean sections by group of inputs and outputs and don’t mix them

Making 1600 pm fuel? Section it into four way and 400 pm each

[crimson moat]

Manifolding requires uneven split at the consumer

this is accomodated by reducing the % of utilised pipe flow capacity via even splitting before the manifold

it is as far as i know the simplest, safest and most effective way to asccomodate manifold's uneven split and resulting bad behavior

[amber edge]

Four groups of refineries doing 400 pm each

Then feeds into four groups of gens, with four pipes straight from each

[oblique hollow]

pretty much, and a loop (usually) is just an ad-hoc split directly integrated into a manifold

[amber edge]

To me loop is only for warming up manifold faster

You can just remove loop once pipes is flooded

[oblique hollow]

if you are far below the max flow limit, none of this is really important

400/min you dont have to care about any of this

[amber edge]

It’s still a manifold method as it’s just straight pipe with fuel gens being manifolds

[amber edge]

For example

[crimson moat]

Yeah not filling the pipe over say 300 has the same effect as pre splitting 1:2

[tawdry blade]

Its also a micro buffer and helps to get gravity to work for you (trapping liquid)

[amber edge]

Flooding is required for liquid manifold

[oblique hollow]

the buffering aspect isnt as useful

[tawdry blade]

Unless you build it sideways or below, idk why one would do that but worth mentioning

[amber edge]

Buffers is niche uses, no reason to use them for all factories as keeping it simple equal input to output is best method

I’m using buffer for my rf factory cuz I sometimes draw some out of it to make fuel for jetpack lol

[oblique hollow]

a buffer on a mk 2 doing 600/min is an utter waste for example.
that thing wont ever do anything remotely useful when you have it in-line

[amber edge]

Make batches of it while buffer drain then redirect into buffer without gens failing

[oblique hollow]

for other situations, they have some use i suppose

[amber edge]

Only did it once, made lot of it and still plenty left

[tawdry blade]

Only use I can envision is in conjunction with trainstations

[amber edge]

Yeah train stations

[tawdry blade]

If one needs to store power, build accumulators

If you produce too much liquid: Get more production and sink

[amber edge]

But if doing single mk2 600pm into station, will not work as buffer will keep filling and back up the water extractor. It only works if you split it into two mk2 pipes with 300 each and buffer so it makes up for unloading loading time by train

[tawdry blade]

Btw I hate that generators have no option to scale their output dynamically.

they just run at 100%

[amber edge]

By doing 300 base then fills up as it stops then do 600 pm each until drained then go back to 300pm

[crimson moat]

dynamic headlift could be useful (but pipes can do the same)

[amber edge]

You need buffers to make up for unloading loading time

As long you don’t do base 600

Do mk2 pipe then split into two mk1 into buffers then mk2 from buffers into two inputs of station

[oblique hollow]

they used to do that before Update 4.
and then they changed that because no generator line would ever make use of your fuel pipe

so you always got fluctuations which meant your factory might be interrupted

I personally think its for the better that they dont do that now

[tawdry blade]

Negh.

But I can see how people would cry about the dynamic demand, resulting in dynamic byproducts.

[oblique hollow]

either that or you had to overflow and package your unused fuel if you wanted your factory to run at 100% uptime

in a game about optimizing factories to run all the time, a variable consumer is not really your friend

[amber edge]

Packaged liquid is most effective way to transport by train also

You can recycle it by putting empty canisters in second car easily

[tawdry blade]

Just dont have your power and production stuff depend on each other, that would been my approach.

[oblique hollow]

only if you dont transport the empty canisters back.

because otherwise, you always need 2 cars for the packaging technically
while with fluids you could just fill both carts

so its 2 full cars of fluid vs 1 full car of packaged fluid

[amber edge]

Just four cars then?

You can’t get 1200 pm from train station

[oblique hollow]

im aware

[amber edge]

For liquid due to load unload times p

[oblique hollow]

neither can you get 2400/min packaged stuff

[frosty owl]

Eh, hardly...
Tbh, the hassle of the packaging and un-packaging gives it little appeal (in terms of number of belts/pipes/machines/trains needed), even accounting for Nitrogen compression

[dusky agate]

Unrelated to the current conversation. Calculated the production requirements for phase 2 of the space elevator.

Also the real life cost for average value of materials

Screws: $138,664
Copper sheets: $200,000
Steel pipes: 9,900
Iron plates: $87,495
Steel beams: $450,000
Cable: $300,000
Copper wire: $16,666,000

Total: $17,852,059

[amber edge]

You get around 2k pm over 900 or so pm for item to fluid station

[oblique hollow]

either you have 2 solid cars, one for packaged stuff one for empty canisters
or you just... you know, run 2 fluid cars instead.

that means you can use the loading speed of 2 fluid cars (1800/min in total) vs the loading speed of a single solid car ( something like... maybe 2000/min ???)

which is pretty close

[frosty owl]

Right, sorry, I forgot to update this based on MK6 belts 😅
They make it more appealing

[amber edge]

Yep

[oblique hollow]

did you include production and power cost to the price?

[dusky agate]

Power would be depended on the amount of machines and if they’re overclocked or not

[quick gorge]

How does one do the programable splitters to do SIS when I need a lower level belt going into it and I have 900 ipm so I can't have a mk5 to do that?
;-;

[cerulean stratus]

what's sis?

[amber edge]

satisfactory infomation system? no idea this is best i can assume

sushi input system?

@quick gorge

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-dalek-gif-20504612

[thorn bane]

wait so you just build a normal manifold and connect it in the middle?

[thorn bane]

YO I KNOW RIGHT?
im actually building a pretty big factory now with 40 warp drives because of sloops and ADS becoming obsolete
its actually so nice

[opal locust]

work in progress Rocket Fuel power plant

the hard part of getting the sulfur/coal/nitrogen to my blenders is done

[quick gorge]

Single input sushi..sorry I went for a nap cuz the ADHD was going hard and I couldn't focus on anything...

[amber edge]

all g, i almost guessed it hah, if you got high numbers maybe divide off from sis then have low pm into it?

[quick gorge]

I could split my input belt in two but then I think it will look weird. And I've visualised it like that and I think I prefer the way I had it

[amber edge]

900 into 780 belt?

try doing two sets, 450/450 i dont really know what you are trying to do

[quick gorge]

Currently it has one input belt coming from the centre.

[amber edge]

and you need 900 pm to go in that?

[quick gorge]

In this video it is explained that you need a higher level belt coming out of the programmable splitter to make it work. So mk5 in and mk6s out to allow an even split

The system needs 900 ppm I put to function but that means I'd need 2 input belts.

[amber edge]

yeah thats what im trying to say, how would you fit 900 into mk5 unless you have mk6?

[quick gorge]

;-; So I'mma need to input belts, OR just not do a SIS system for this.
I have plenty other builds that can do sis, what I had was more symmetrical anyway

[amber edge]

why even sushi tho

[quick gorge]

Because I don't want any of my factories to look like boxes in this save

[amber edge]

use logistics floors

subfloors, double walls

[quick gorge]

I want the logistics to be part of the "art"
even you said you found the wiggly belt to be funny
I love that lil guy, look at him go!

[wind spade]

yeah I hate how people hide belt/pipework in logistical floor

belt and pipes are meant to be seen and appreciated

[quick gorge]

Plus I think I'mma lower all the belts bar the input down to mk5 because this build isn't flashy because of the belts, it's flashy because it's a damn snowflake

Wellll I think I'm sticking with that layout for belts, I'll find a place for SIS else where
Time to migrate over the design channel 🙃

[amber edge]

you could try dye them with black it will be more transparent

[quick gorge]

I will be with the input belt, any place I don't need them I won't use them

[frosty owl]

Yeah, the lower-MK-input requirement is annoying...
If you want you can get around that by:

• Splitting the initial MK6 in two MK5 (however you prefer, this split doesn't need to be even
• Sushi-splitting (with Programmables) the two MK5 in two each for a total of 4 outputs
• Merging the outputs from one Splitter with the ones from the other to obtain 2 balanced outputs

Not too small, but this is the best solution I found for that

[quick gorge]

The main issue is I tried having the two inputs and I think it just looks ugly for this build

[frosty owl]

I'm not sure what you mean... It looks better using 2 inputs per machine rather than 1 due to the way you built?

[quick gorge]

This one is the one I'm hung up on

[frosty owl]

That would need to be a balanced sushi-split, which requires lower-MK input :/

[quick gorge]

nods
I split that lift into two and doesn't sit right with me

[frosty owl]

Both two branches should consume the same amount/min too. Given the different number of machines on each branch, I'm not sure if you took that into account

[frosty owl]

Wait, is this a single-item belt?

[quick gorge]

That is why there is a prio merger
I just let the artistic part of me make some cool pretty thing and then I try to build a factory within the confines

[quick gorge]

That is copper and iron ores, not like anyone could really tell 💀

[frosty owl]

Well, then no other way to split it evenly if not for the one mentioned before...
Though, at that point, it may be easier to mix the ores in a different way altogether, so that you don't have to sushi-split MK6 belts

Or just stick to sushi-folds and carefully manage the overflow (I think I see an overflow-lift at the end of one of the snowflake's petals...)

[quick gorge]

I'm needing to work within the confines of the pretty, I can't work effectively under these limitations

[bleak wagon]

How do the water towers where you use 1 pipe to get all your pipes to work without pumps work? Ik I have to connect them all together, is that it?

[wind spade]

they are not recommended, as they tend to break your systems (water towers in general, but especially the ones with shared pipe)

[grizzled grove]

I don’t like it

Feels, icky

[wind spade]

just build pumps like a normal person 😛

[bleak wagon]

alright so I should probably put anything that uses water on the first floor of my nuclear power plant to save myself a lot of effort on pumps

[quick gorge]

but why?

[grizzled grove]

It’s just, not straight

[quick gorge]

Well maybe I'm not straight, have you ever thought about that?

[grizzled grove]

I’m gay 🦐

OR AM I????????? Welcome to the Twilight Zone

[wind spade]

nuclear plants especially are great to build on top of oceans, with each plant directly in front of the water extractors

[bleak wagon]

yeah I am building like that

its just I have machines that use a total of 27000 water/min

[quick gorge]

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact Natco@ficsit if you have any questions or concerns

srsly tho I have no idea how to reach the level of pretty I'm going for ;-;

[grizzled grove]

Ima be real

Making shit look good in satisfactory blows

[quick gorge]

Ironic

[grizzled grove]

When curved walls..

[bleak wagon]

this is how im doing it currently, the water extractors in the front are for the water going to the machines that use them and there are water extractors in front of every nuclear plant Ive placed so far

[quick gorge]

I am open to suggestions

[grizzled grove]

I’ll show you this sick 12 foundry blueprint..

[quick gorge]

I do feel like this should be migrated to https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659 👀

[grizzled grove]

Another question… pures?

[quick gorge]

"pures" can apply to quite a few things

[grizzled grove]

Pure copper, pure iron in the refinery building

These alternate recipes take raw ore and turn it into ingots with a water input

said ironically like an AI

[quick gorge]

The foundries I'm working with are alternating between iron alloy (@250%) and copper alloy resulting in 24 of each

[opal locust]

there, 4 pipes totalling 2400 Rocket Fuel/minute. Now the next step, the fuel generators.

[thick plank]

best recepies in the game IMO, not counting the dilluted recycling loop

[amber edge]

make sure you got good motor production to feed the gen spam lol

[grizzled grove]

Woah, industrial storage

[amber edge]

i did that and it ate up entire of it 2/3 into

[grizzled grove]

See but you didn’t run out

[amber edge]

had to wait for like 30 min in end then i decided to make factory of it

[quick gorge]

Yeah I don't know what this is for?
I'm not using pure recipes...

[grizzled grove]

Why weren’t you storing them before tho

[amber edge]

i did

[grizzled grove]

I’m asking why you aren’t using pure

[quick gorge]

Because I'm not.

[grizzled grove]

Not very math and meta

[opal locust]

So, a pipe of 600 Rocket Fuel is enough for 60 generators clocked to 240% correct?

[quick gorge]

I've been talking in here because of sushi. That's like 50% math (and the other 50% is https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659)

[amber edge]

industrial storage got 48 stacks while making the fuel generators to support 2400 rocket fuel needed 78 stacks

[grizzled grove]

Oh sushi I se I see

[amber edge]

then the last 30 stacks needed total of 30 minutes for 5 motor per minute i had before

[quick gorge]

Alternating iron and copper allies because the idea of that sounds cool and in practice it felt cool, I prototyped it as a box, turned it into a snowflake and now I'm here

[amber edge]

now i have factory doing 2 stack a minute so it will not be problem when i do it again 🤷‍♂️

[quick gorge]

The idea is very sushiable... very human

[amber edge]

why is it very human

[quick gorge]

The design is very human

[amber edge]

snowflake? its nature creation

[quick gorge]

Using nature as the grounds for a industrial purpose is very human
Would planes exist if we didn't have birds?
Maybe idfk I'm not a planegineer

[opal locust]

I don't know if that's enough space for 60 generators

[amber edge]

yeah we would, maybe longer for us to reach the concept of flight but in history human has proven to rush for faster transportation from trains to plane. we would eventually learn about fixed wing flight but we probably would make hot balloon approach. then if in alternate universe where bird didnt exist, it could be because flight wasnt possible in first place for that universe's physics. but who knows as we are in this time line. a penny of thought

[amber edge]

60 for 2400 rocket fuel?

[opal locust]

no, that's the first layer

[amber edge]

oh alright

[opal locust]

4 floors of 60 generators

[amber edge]

im like thats just 1/4 lol

would correct number is 58 tho with one being 125%

how wide is that foundation

[quick gorge]

Never did show me that blueprint 👀

[grizzled grove]

I’m not home

[amber edge]

you could fit 60 gen into 40x40 foundation

[grizzled grove]

:3

[quick gorge]

Well that'll do it

[opal locust]

well I had to stretch to the side but that's 6x10 generators

[amber edge]

oh

[potent falcon]

this whas 3/4 for 1888,88 rocket fuel xD

[amber edge]

30x50 then

[potent falcon]

needed a total of 453.32 genarators xD

[amber edge]

why not overclock xd

[potent falcon]

sometimes its fun to go bigg 😛

[amber edge]

450, thats like three industrial storage worth of motors haha

[potent falcon]

didnt wanted to use to much of the cheated powershards it still feels bad after 1000 hours xD

[wind spade]

powershards are infinite anyway

[potent falcon]

yeah but not this early 😛

[wind spade]

even this early

[amber edge]

easy to sloop purple slugs

[wind spade]

they are infinite from start of the game

[amber edge]

right dogs gives them

[potent falcon]

they respwan xD

[wind spade]

lizard doggos bring them

[potent falcon]

the lizard dogog

[opal locust]

so the plan is to send the rocket fuel up a layer, use a pipe for 60 gens, send the remaining pipes up another layer, repeat.

[potent falcon]

sounds like a nice idea

[tawdry blade]

you get literally thousands of them if you just collect the snails you run across while scavenging for drives and stuff,
as lomng as you sloop them.

[potent falcon]

yeah but im done with the exploring did that to much in the beggining :P0

[tawdry blade]

Done?

[potent falcon]

those big projects take enough time 😛

dont wanna go al around the world get slugs before every project i make evrything big most of the times

but can you guys tell me i dont use the floor holes for pipes annymore they gave a lot of problems anny other experience for you guys ?

[tawdry blade]

Idk what issues they would cause you.

[potent falcon]

had to re do them most of the time fluids not flowing through them

[tawdry blade]

Idk, never had issues with them.

[potent falcon]

you play on a server or just the local ?

[opal locust]

one other thing I want to do with this Rocket Fuel. I want to divert a small amount to make Packaged Rocket Fuel for my jetpack and vehicles

doesn't even have to be that much, say 20 fuel for 10 packaged/minute

[potent falcon]

with my build now im going to make a dedicated factory for packeging all the fuel

not becuase you need it just becuase you can 😛

[opal locust]

what's kind of funny is I somehow set up this first layer at the same height as a part of my coal/sulfur feed

Also I need a lot more power shards

if I need to clock every gen to 240%, that's 180 shards per layer, or 720 shards total

Sorry slugs, Ficsit demands efficiency

[opaque quartz]

I'm sure the slugs don't mind

living a glorious future jammed into the cogs of a machine

[thorn bane]

slug -> shard recipe should be in the blender

[opaque quartz]

insert joke about Slurm here

[opal locust]

how should I run the pipes around these generators? one giant loop around the outside? or is that not necessary because of how gas works

[wind spade]

loop is always nice to have, even if not required 🤷

[prisma kraken]

i would run 3 pipes down between the 6 rows and then connect them at one side to a feeder pipe. if that won't stabilize, i would then connect the ends of the other half of the 3 pipes. better option is to break your fuel gen into 3 chunks each feeding a separate row

first two rules of piping: keep networks simple. keep pipe networks small.

[opal locust]

This is small, this is only 1/4th of the setup

[fallow siren]

loop the pipe and dont connect them to other pipe, keep them as separate system

if theres 500/min pipe, do row of gen that ocnsume 500/min

[opal locust]

these 60 are on 1 pipe of 600

[opal locust]

and my Packaged Rocket Fuel setup. I'll set 4 of the generators to 120% instead of 240% to give me 20 fuel to turn into 10 PRF/minute

You served me well Packaged Liquid Biofuel

[opaque quartz]

if you have some shards left over, consider making a small batch of ionized fuel for the jetpack

[opal locust]

I feel like Ionized Fuel is overkill for the effort required, even if you can automate power shards

[amber edge]

thats piping done for 4800 RF set up

just gotta deal with sulfur and coal

3200pm water with 320 each pipe, set of 10

[opaque quartz]

the base recipe is literally just rocket fuel + power shards in a refinery. I made a standalone refinery to make some off my rocket fuel plant and then fed it a stack of shards I already had from slugs in order to make a batch for dimensional depot for scooting around w the jetpack

ionized fuel has the burn time of liquid biofuel w the boost/climbing power of rocket fuel

[opal locust]

well that should be enough power to hit credits, and that's with only 1/4 of this rocket fuel plant online.

I guess I could keep both fuels around, Liquid Biofuel if I need to go horizontally, Rocket Fuel if I need to go vertically.

plus I'm a huge proponent of yeeting yourself with pulse nobelisks

[amber edge]

why. ionized is better than biofuel for horizontally as well

[opal locust]

because I'm not at the point where I have nothing left to use my power shards on.

[opaque quartz]

fair point. once its unlocked you can buy it in the awesome shop too

[opal locust]

I'm saving up for that golden nut trophy first

[restive sparrow]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I'm trying to use SFtools to plan out a maximal nuke plant given one normal node of uranium (600/m).

If I ask it for zero plutonium per minute, it gives me a maximal uranium rods/m of 14.4.
(https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=rsVMnDYxtEu1ux1RdVf2)

If I tell it that we have 720 uranium waste at our disposal (due to burning 14.4 rods/minute) then ask it to maximize the plutonium waste, it cuts into the uranium rod production.
(https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=3IgTbsnCrDzULwPtfPRW)

The plutonium should be coming only from uranium WASTE so I'm missing how this is reducing the maximal uranium rods. I'm sure there's something I'm missing here but it's a big plan.

[thorn bane]

thats not how maximize works
its maximizing both at the same rate, thats why both of them are 3.6

[restive sparrow]

That would indicate that it's using something necessary for the uranium rods that is limited. What is it? I see nothing that is limited that's required for the uranium rods AND the plutonium rods.

There must be something that's common and limiting the result, but I don't see it.

[thorn bane]

no no as in it cant make 3.7 of both rods so it settles on 3.6
its not maximizing them independently

put in them UFR number manually and it works

[vapid gorge]

iirc you want to max uranium rods and just use the waste, no uranium from p rods for max power

[restive sparrow]

Dude you're saying if you maximize an iron sheet and a copper sheet the iron sheet that maximizing the 2nd one will impact the second and it just plain wouldn't do that because their components don't overlap.

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=y3GyWIrY2aYC9U40hkaQ

[vapid gorge]

unless you use recipes that overlap like alloy

[restive sparrow]

I've given it access to all recipes so there should be no limiting overlap

[vapid gorge]

if none of the resources or recipes overlap? sure.
if they do? it's a mess

[thorn bane]

its just how "maximize" works on tools
it would make 100 copper sheets and 100 iron sheets
or try 200 iron 200 copper
its always the same number

[vapid gorge]

there's a p rod recipe that uses uranium ore to make p rods, that will affect u rods

[thorn bane]

its not using that....

[vapid gorge]

they jus said they were using 'all recipes'

[restive sparrow]

I've given it access to the recipes, I'm not forcing it to use a particular alt recipe, and it hasn't chosen to use that recipe

[thorn bane]

the issue is that if you select maximize in tool for 2 things then it doesnt maximize them independently
it maximizes the amount of both as the same number

[opaque quartz]

Change uranium rods to 14.4 in the production plan

[restive sparrow]

You're saying the tool tries to balance multiple maximizes to the exact same number for absolutely no reason when the components don't overlap, just cause that's an eccentricity of the tool?

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=k8T4lWP0YH6iBcDRuabc

[opaque quartz]

If you tell it to maximize both, what else is it supposed to do?

[thorn bane]

yes

[vapid gorge]

U rods https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=mMqINdblywNsxJypHJat

P rods https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=b27wa7am58lzFRTWeewc

[opaque quartz]

Also, if you enable the fertile uranium alt it will use some of the raw uranium for plutonium rods

[vapid gorge]

you don't want to have 2 things maximised in a plan is the short of it. Generally after you maximise 1 thing swap out to Items per min and put that in the result

[restive sparrow]

It's supposed to MAXIMIZE THEM. Just like my example idea....if you say to maximize IRON THING and give it 5000 iron per minute then ask it to maximize COPPER THING and give it 100 copper per minute, they should not end up being the exact same number.

[restive sparrow]

Ok, so it's an oddity of the tool. Got it. Thanks, Cobalt.

[wind spade]

if you maximise multiple things at the same time, the tool will make equal amount of all (but max possible)

[restive sparrow]

That seems odd to me.

[wind spade]

this is a feature

mostly just because it's unclear how would the tool handle multiple maximises

[vapid gorge]

this is maximised iron plate AND copper sheet

[wind spade]

you'd have to set priorities for items and such, it just gets too complicated

[vapid gorge]

it tries to make an equal amount of each

it's not a quirk, that's just how it is

[restive sparrow]

I totally understand if it's a complexity in the underlying code. I know a fair bit about code but I don't know anything about optimization algos, it just doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.

[wind spade]

it's not very much recommended to use the maximise anyway. If you really want to figure out the max possible amount, use it, but then change it back to items/min with the number you got from maximise

[restive sparrow]

I've always thought a totally valid use of the tool would be to input several nodes available to you within whatever you deem an acceptable radius for a factory then ask it to make as much of x, y, and z as possible. I never once thought that it would be trying to figure out as much x, y, and z it could make with the constraint of them being the exact same value.

[restive sparrow]

This much is clear now. Much appreciated greeny! (and others)

[thorny root]

I have revised my bauxite and quartz usage plans. (New is on the left). The main difference: Decreased final aluminum production in exchange for significantly smarter quartz usage.

[wind spade]

I would recommend against that approach to the game. Instead of making things based on available nearby nodes, make the amount you need, and find a place for it based on raw resources it needs

[restive sparrow]

This generally makes sense, but for something like power generation where "more" is always desirable, I thought this seemed like a valid use case for maximization.

[wind spade]

sure, but then you can just use the maximise to figure out the cap, change back to items/min and build that

[restive sparrow]

I see that now. Much much appreciated.

[thorn bane]

pure ingot + sloppy solution is just better than default solution + default ingot

[prisma kraken]

i think default alum ingot is going to become more of a thing now that we have the priority merger. it was really hard to make that recipe worked without it

[wind spade]

was it?

[thorn bane]

ah you could already do it since that doesnt need perfect priority

[prisma kraken]

kinda sorta?

[thorn bane]

*nah

[prisma kraken]

you always needed to import extra silica for it, and getting that silica in the right places was challenging

[wind spade]

that's just two sets of refineries, one running on fresh silica and one on byproduct silica

[prisma kraken]

nah, it was the scrap foundries that took it as input. because scrap has a 500 stack size, getting both the silica and scrap manifolds filled w/o causing alum to lock up was a pita

[thorn bane]

priority merger for silica

[restive sparrow]

Care to explain the use case? I can't think of a way priority merging would be useful other than sushi belting which I don't dig.

[prisma kraken]

well, that's my point, you had to do complicated to make it to work

[thorn bane]

you have silica from the alumina solution and fresh silica from quartz
you wanna always prioritize the alumina solution silica so that factory doesnt stall

[prisma kraken]

use case (actually the primary one that came to mind when they announced the priority merger): use default solution's byproduct to feed into alum foundries with supplemental silica from a train

[crimson moat]

priority merger is also priority fluid flow via packagers 😛

[thorn bane]

i mean 5 mergers and 5 splitters isnt too complicated
its a bit smaller but the main idea was already there

[thorn bane]

also something we could already do

[prisma kraken]

doing that without the priority merger meant you needed to rate limit the train's output with a series of splits & belt speed reductions

[restive sparrow]

Oh yeah that totally makes sense for recycling loops.

[thorn bane]

the use case of perfect priority like with a priority mergers is stuff like canister loops that continually get fed from a constructer untill the loop ts full

[thorny root]

Thank you for the reminder. I meant to tick pure. I forgot I wanted sloppy.

[prisma kraken]

i'm still working through phase 3 of my 1.1 playthrough, but where i'm actually already using the priority merger is to favor biomass production from leaves instead of wood to preserve the wood for making coal in a weapons factory

[thorn bane]

looks good ❤️

[crimson moat]

you can make coal with wood? 😄

oh charcoal

[thorn bane]

haha thats cute

[prisma kraken]

yes, and a lot of it

there really aren't a whole lot of places in the game where the priority merger is useful, but there's a few that when you encounter the problem, it is a really nice addition

[thorn bane]

i really wanna make a priority merger sushi build, its the ideal use case for it
just havent gotten to it

[prisma kraken]

i'm sure there's a few other things it simplifies, but i need to work through the rest of the game's problems to really think about it all

[thorn bane]

its also nice for tier 9 dark matter crystals

[prisma kraken]

yeah, probably a good spot for it

i'll most likely leverage them on train output in more places than i've thought of yet to allow local production to take priority over what comes in via train

[fallow siren]

prioritising dark matter crystal made from dark matter byproducts, its one of the case where priority merger became useful

[prisma kraken]

i haven't built it yet, nor thought a lot about it, but i think it will likely make large cheap silica builds a lot easier

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message

[prisma kraken]

getting those 7 pure limestone nodes and whatever quartz you can scrounge all going into the right sets of assemblers isn't a simple task

*7 pure nodes in rocky desert

[thorn bane]

oh i just noticed yesterday that they actually doubled the speed of cheap silica in 1.0
kinda insane

[prisma kraken]

yeah, good change, recipe is still pretty evil though, lol

[thorn bane]

ill stick to quartz purification my beloved

[thorny root]

Why didn't you remind me as well that I needed silica for two stages of nuclear processing? Tsk tsk tsk. 😛

Need 1260 to encase all the uranium and then another 1250 to process 750 plutonium pellets

[amber edge]

1 row done, 9 to go, seems i need to beef up my rubber feeding into depot

[opal locust]

I'm running into an issue with my aluminum casings drone port

I'm producing far more than my RCU/FMF/CS factories need, but the drones are constantly getting more and crowding the port

I even slooped my casings assemblers to increase output and it's still not enough

[crimson moat]

"crowding the port"?

[opal locust]

a drone will be in a circling pattern while waiting for another drone to finish

[crimson moat]

if i understand correctly you are basically using the overflow principle like a manifold, but on droneports it could take hours or days to self balance

[crimson moat]

if you have too many drones per port as well it will also just break because they take a long time to land and take off, and only one drone can do it at a time

what i do is put 1+ droneports for each place the export is going, and give them the amount of casings that are needed (or a set amount, like 150/min/port). The dividing up of the part is done before reaching the ports, so the drones can only take what they get and they can only take it to one place.

They all have their own port so not competing for landing either.

[opal locust]

Yeah that makes more sense, oh well. I lowered the production on my Cooling Systems and RCUs because I was making far more per minute than I needed. That with the slooped assemblers should balance it out faster.

[crimson moat]

for example if you have a factory consuming 200/min, a drone bringing 220/min, and a droneport with 34 slots.. for a 100 stack item, that drone will fly loops at maximum speed for 2 hours and 50 minutes PLUS the buffer capacity of all of your machines before the droneport fills up and then it waits there to unload.

[opal locust]

Because I was making 600 casings/minute and the 3 factories combined were using less than 500

I guess I didn't account for how often the drones would need to load/unload

[crimson moat]

yeah i typically assign 150/min or 200/min to droneports because of the load unload and travel time

you can do more but 500 is pushing it

i prefer to have a lot of margin and then not worry so much about measurement and validation because nothing really bad happens if you have a few too many drones, but on the flip side it can be catastrophic

it doesn't even cost more fuel (they take what they need) and it warms buffers faster

[opal locust]

Yeah, I could also throw down a second casings port and let drone that needs the most casings use just that one.

[crimson moat]

I have a setup also

300 ingots into 225 casings into a droneport

but that droneport overflows to another droneport

so if it's within range for 225/min it will just use one port, but if it's a bit out of range, the second will activate occasionally and catch up

i think they drain power from being online but that's all

[opal locust]

What's odd is I think my port for rubber export is connected to 5 factories now, but it doesn't experience this problem

I guess it's because of larger travel times and less material per minute needed.

[crimson moat]

also you could have gradually warmed up the buffers one by one

as you added ports

[opal locust]

I think it only happened after I scaled up everything once I had access to Mk6 belts/lifts

[opal locust]

the power of drones makes this 1 Ballistic Warp Drive/minute factory super easy.

Now to simply sit here for a few hours and then I roll credits

[thorny root]

Current power plans...
||625,000 Power from 100 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.5 Uranium Fuel Rods. 100 Mk2 pipes, 200 water extractors.
468,750 Power from 75 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.25 Plutonium Fuel Rods. 75 Mk2 pipes, 150 water extractors.
234,375 Power from 37 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% & 1 @ 125% burning 2.5 & 1.25 Ficsonium Fuel Rods. 37 Mk2 pipes 1 Mk1 Pipe, 75 water extractors.
1,328,125 total power from 213 total nuclear power plants, 127,500 water (Jesus christ)

106 Total Somersloops
3 get consumed during research
34 used in constructors (overslooped 250) doubling my Reanimated Sam to 5100. Current usage plans 3861.25 (~150% of the map limit)
4 used per manufacturer, 4 used per Quantum Encoder
1 Manufacturer (overslooped 250) input: 150 Reanimated SAM, output 50 Sam Fluctuator -> 2 Quantum Encoder (overslooped 200) output: 20 Alien Power Matrix, 480 Dark Matter Residue (Doubled DMR by these two reduces Reanimated SAM (thru DMR Conversion) usage by 120)

52 total: 40 Somersloops for building 4 Alien Power Augmentor and 12 for the 3 machines.
17 unallocated Somersloops Remaining||

Power increase: ???

[lapis jetty]

Im curious if yall can guess what the factory is planned to be making

i made it a very long factory and idk why

[prisma kraken]

if i'm not mistaken, 34 sloops in reanimated sam should yield you 20400 from the 10200 sam on the map, right?

err, your doing the divide-by-4 thing, got it

[thorny root]

yeah sorry my numbers and notes are not exactly coherent as far as the numbers go but they make sense to me. Even if it's wrong on paper. XD

Due to the way the calculator works and the inability to factory in sloops I'm having to do my adjustments manually by ... tinkering with all sorts of things.

Thankfully the knobs, buttons, dials, and lever are there to toy with.

So I've turned off sam as a resource and in my head, and I'm only dealing with Reanimated Sam now. The actual final quantity I will have to work with.

[prisma kraken]

well, i see the circuit boards and just a pair of manufacturers, so i'm guessing either computers or hsc's

[thorny root]

(I see now)

[prisma kraken]

could be plastic AIL or default cb, can't tell

[thorny root]

Yeah. You're right. It's computers.

All using base recipes

except maybe the oil bits

[prisma kraken]

and yay, ACU's are cooking

[lapis jetty]

i SHOUld fix it

[thorny root]

You should build some power storage

also you power generation is all over the place... something's up with your oil / coal / water

[prisma kraken]

on a different topic, my playthrough is starting to turn into a minamalist sort of build. as such, my power requirements are pretty low so far. I needed to add another ~1 gw of power just to make ends temporarily meet with minimal effort, so i did some number crunching on the power yield from 300 oil into yellow fuel. turns out the base fuel+resin recipe has the least power overhead of the different alternatives

[lapis jetty]

I finished it now so it should be more obvious

[prisma kraken]

i'd hazard a guess that is default supercomputer

[lapis jetty]

Ye

Your hazardous guess was correct

i probably should have gotten some alt recipies

[prisma kraken]

kinda on the fence about that all with computers & supercomps. the default chain is a lot simpler to handle once you figure out the cable demand

[fallow siren]

OC super computer is quite nice if you want to produce a small amount

[lapis jetty]

I have magic ways of producing cable

Magic init

[prisma kraken]

well, here's some really magice cable:

[lapis jetty]

I have almost unlocked nuclear power will i regret it

[oblique hollow]

Only if you overwhelm yourself

Nuclear power has a costly setup, so consider it well

It scales better the more power you want from it

(so 10 nukes is more efficient in terms of effort invested than 1 nuke)

[thorny root]

It amuses me greatly that you can make flexible frame (with presumably rubber joints) and then make heat fused frames out of that, as if throwing that in a fire is going to improve the situation. XD

[prisma kraken]

yeah, reinforcing what McGalleon said, nuclear is best built in chunks that process 300 or 600 uranium ore/min; less than 300 and you're really putting a lot of work into not-much-power

[oblique hollow]

Nitric Acid vs rubber is a mixed bag

Depends what our rubber really is

[thorny root]

do you mean irl or...

[oblique hollow]

Nitrile, Neoprene, EPDM? Not good

Fluorinated rubber? good

Yes IRL

[thorny root]

I don't know shit about plastics bud.

But if I ever need a chemical holding tank, I'll know who to ask about linings.

[thorny root]

When iron wire exists... why

[oblique hollow]

We are allowed to be biased against iron wire

[prisma kraken]

haha

60 caterium is pretty fricking cheap though

[lapis jetty]

is this alt recipe worth grabbing

[wind spade]

do you like it? yes
do you not see yourself using it? no

[lapis jetty]

i Just unlocked nuclear stuff idk what recipies i should be getting

[wind spade]

there's no "should", you can get any that you want

[lapis jetty]

That recipe is increadibly expensive compared to the normal one

[wind spade]

but does 100 EUC per 3 UFR instead of 50 EUC per 1 UFR

so up to you if you like that or not

[lapis jetty]

true

[oblique hollow]

If you arent sure, just dont pick it right now. Pick it later once you know nuclear

Once you know what the numbers even mean

[lapis jetty]

i Just spent ages climbing up to a uranium node only for it to be impure

[wind spade]

300 uranium is a lot

[lapis jetty]

Okay

[thorny root]

This recipe is the max fuel method.

[safe heron]

@prisma kraken you showed me a plan to process 300 uranium a few months ago. Do you still have that and use that?

[fossil dove]

Let me see if I got it right: with 240 coal/min, I can have 8 coal generators powered by 3 water extractors?

[fallow siren]

16 gens and 6 extractors*

[fossil dove]

oh

That's a lot of power

[fallow siren]

you can always check the input slot

they tells you the intake

[fossil dove]

ok, thx!

[tulip kraken]

I was thinking, Now that i start to Build a lot more, Is there a mod for the zoop build mode that removes the zoop limit? the 10 limit is realy anoying if i wandt to Build bigger.

[wind spade]

best to ask in modding discord for this
also blueprints exist

[dusky bronze]

infinite zoop

theres also a flex splines mods that makes it so that belts, train tracks, pipes, and wires can go infinitely, as well as adding new parts that dont have any limits on how sharply they can curve

only downside so far that ive noticed about that one is that colouring pipes tanks your fps

[tulip kraken]

Okay thx. i look into them

[dusky bronze]

one thing to note about infinite zoop is that the game will crash if you go too far

and ive noticed stutters when you try to place more than like 250 foundations at once

[fossil dove]

Bruh, I have a coal gen setup but the power output keeps fluctuating...

[amber edge]

show the set up, or better post in help thread and keep everything there so we can help you better

[fossil dove]

Ok, will post there

[amber edge]

figured out? was it warming up

are you pushing 3 extractor thru 1 mk1 pipe? that might be the problem as throughput exceeds 300pm

i hate that feeling after setting up 290 gw plant and seeing i have 4 fuel gens disconnected from power grid somewhere, im midst of 460 fuel gens, it would be needle in haystack hahahahaa

found it whew

aw yeah 475gw total

[marsh nacelle]

how can i make this lift snap closer to the constructor?

trying to make an ultra compact constructor blueprint

[oblique hollow]

have something above where you snap to first

the first snap point will always be extended

[marsh nacelle]

like this?

[oblique hollow]

yeah

build down from up there

[marsh nacelle]

thanks 👍

[bleak wagon]

nice, I got my power plans figured out 2 days ago, been placing extractors/nuclear reactors for 3 days finally finished this morning and am starting on bringing the resources to one spot

This is my material list:

• 2083.3 uranium
• 1063.03 crude oil
• 153,393.95 water
• 5916.67 bauxite
• 4937.44 nitrogen
• 3083.28 sulfur
• 18,211.95 limestone
• 5634.71 coal
• 8107.11 quartz
• 7812.5 SAM
• 3519.91 copper ore
• 2669.91 caterium ore

Im droning uranium in, everything else I need to figure out how many trains I need

Im a little unsure about the amount of stations needed for offloading though

I think Im gonna need 2 stations for limestone

because the max a station with 4 cargo platforms can unload is 9600

[outer vale]

and even that's not actually possible

[bleak wagon]

whats the max I can actually unload

[outer vale]

depends on route length and whatnot

[bleak wagon]

yeah

[outer vale]

the main thing preventing the full 2 belts is that the belts stop running while [un]loading

[bleak wagon]

yeah so a buffer is able to help with that

[outer vale]

so you can never sustain 2 full belts

buffer doesn't help because the buffer's filled by those two belts

it does increase what you can manage, but not to 2 full belts per platform

[bleak wagon]

yeah that is true Ive only normally taken 1 belt out of the storage it goes out to so it does sustain but Im going to have to take 2 belts out for this

I hope that at least 8k is possible for me with 1 station because I really dont want to make more stations for quartz and sam

I will if I have to but its preferable I dont

[outer vale]

there's probably something on the wiki

I'm pretty sure 2000/min/platform is infeasible though

[bleak wagon]

if not I can have some short trains and it will be alright

[opaque quartz]

You should plan for one full belt per platform and save yourself headaches

[outer vale]

or even less, when you're at mk6 belts

you're constrained from two sides

• carriage size, 32 stacks, limits how long a round trip can take for a given throughput
• but at short trip times, the [un]load belt pause becomes a significant drop

[bleak wagon]

oh yeah thats gonna become an issue, each train would only be able to take 12800 and that does not take long to get unloaded

could multiple trains going to the same stations help with that?

[outer vale]

the lockdown's the same length regardless of how much is being unloaded

[outer vale]

no, because of that second point, you're now putting stations into lockdown for even longer

[bleak wagon]

I meant like taken from the platform, not taken off the train

[outer vale]

eh, that doesn't really matter, that's what the buffers are for

[bleak wagon]

theres always the funny option of run belts

[outer vale]

or just... add more platforms

[bleak wagon]

from the extractor to my nuclear power plant lmao

yeah, I might actually end up with a floor of just trains unloading

[outer vale]

all my nuclear stuff ended up with some relatively long trains

[bleak wagon]

yeah should be interesting

atm im just gonna start getting through some t9 milestones

my 77gw of power storage should get me through that for long enough

[bleak wagon]

Im just gonna test for 1200 a platform rn

[tawdry blade]

easier to do with splitters as scaffolding

https://youtu.be/Tgxknxp3-Go
Lots of nice things to learn here

[prisma kraken]

not handy, no

[edgy bloom]

which recipe is more efficient solid steel ingot or compacted steel ingot?

cuz compacted seem sto use more resources but saves on iron

[dusky dust]

Comparing efficiency means deciding which metric you care most about. I haven't compared those two directly myself (anytime recently, anyway), so I don't know exactly, but that kind of tradeoff seems right

There might be other tradeoffs to number of buildings / power produced, etc.

[edgy bloom]

indeed compactes steel has lees throughput

[dusky dust]

sftools is a good way to compare alts, fwiw

[prisma kraken]

compacted steel trades power for insane resource efficiency. it is the sort of recipe you only really should entertain using when you have more power than you know how to use

[dusky dust]

For instance, Solid Steel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=FCPbNeuiQYsgvkQex6eY
Versus Compacted Steel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=rF6EG9LOQYLjhlzrkKkY
(will need to click through to the tabs once you click on those)

And other tabs on there will let you compare power requirements and such, too

[prisma kraken]

the 'good' use case for compacted steel at this point is to make use of the byproduct compacted coal from rocket/ion fuel

[dusky dust]

I suppose that Solid Steel graph is using Pure Iron which you might not do. Though as usual, the nice thing about sftools is that you can go and toggle any recipes whenever you want and the graph'll re-solve

[prisma kraken]

keep in mind that solid steel can be leveraged with iron alloy or basic iron ingot as well

also keep in mind that there's only a handful of recipes other than solid steel that use iron ingots: plate, rod, screw, wire... if you're making plates, the steel+iron ingot alt further increases efficiency

[edgy bloom]

ah gotcha

im cuurently feeding solid steel with the pure iron ingot

so your easrlier statement is correct it consumes WAAAAY more power in return for more resource efficiency

cuz it seems to save on both iron and coal

[prisma kraken]

half the iron and a quarter of the coal in exchange for power & sulfur yeah

[obtuse fable]

Just got to the stage where I'm going to build nuclear power, what's everyone's thoughts on the most efficient recipes?

[wind spade]

That delends what you mean by "efficient"

[obtuse fable]

Best recipes for most efficient use of resources

[wind spade]

Each recipe saves different resource, there's no generic "best"

[bleak wagon]

this is my nuclear disaster, works for my needs

[dusky bronze]

the tree from hell

[opaque quartz]

Spicy production plan

[bleak wagon]

it is infact a tree from hell

I can work through it though so its fine by me

[quick gorge]

"chaos can be found within Order can be found within"

[bleak wagon]

my life is less organized than that

[restive sparrow]

2263 power shards 🤯

[waxen condor]

Will this splitter work properly ? the smart splitters are set on center(main) right(overflow) and it should make it so if a Belt gets full the others will get filled

[bleak wagon]

yeah its a lot of shards

[quick gorge]

I haven't looked at that info in mine and I'm scared to

[bleak wagon]

I looked at those things only because I knew I didnt have enough shards

I have enough now and it was not fun

[bleak wagon]

oh god I need like 10 train stations of limestone for this

[restive sparrow]

Honestly it's a shame the stack size for power shards is so so small considering how many there are in the game and how many people need. My DD filled before I even started using them!

[zealous coral]

I do a calculation, to check what power source is the most resource effective, and it shows me that Rocket Fuel Power Plant is most effective, any of you comes to the same conclusion? (I only took clean source, so nuclear power i was calculating for whole chain with Fisconium)

[wind spade]

what is this for?

[oblique hollow]

Rocket fuel trades that efficiency for a lot of needed space

[zealous coral]

Fisconium nuclear plant takes also a lot of space taking into acount all items you need to produce to create Rods

I'm checking now how it would look if somersloop would be used in some meaningful places

[oblique hollow]

Ficsonium is a lot of extra effort

And should only be used if the power is needed - beyond regular uranium power

[quick gorge]

||me who is making it because I want to make IKEA lamps||

mhm yes sure okay cool

[bleak wagon]

me who just wants to do it because it seems fun

Im having a lot of fun routing trains rn

water extractors were hell because i had to do it twice because im a dumbass

[quick gorge]

*And should only be used if it's fun :D

[bleak wagon]

lmao

this is my first project of this scale and im enjoying the resource gathering process more than I was expecting

[quick gorge]

Yeeeee I'm currently harvesting the western rocky desert but routing the power underground

[bleak wagon]

Im currently harvesting the grassy plains

[quick gorge]

I'm minmaxing funny shapes

[bleak wagon]

the real fun is getting the other 9 trains of limestone going

[bleak wagon]

I love that

[quick gorge]

The power cables being underground won't take away from the silly belts going into the factory by being in the way

[bleak wagon]

the rocky desert is cooked when I start taking from it, everything is going to be gone

[zealous coral]

I calculate energy generated from whole chain, just storing uranium wastes is something not acceptable for me.

[oblique hollow]

who said storing waste

[bleak wagon]

make the waste into smth and sink it

[oblique hollow]

usually, the process involves making plutonium and sinking that.
the power cost for that isnt nearly as fatal

ficsonium is for when you want to use plutonium power sustainably

[bleak wagon]

is this going to cause an issue at all? I know there was a bug with signals effecting nearby tracks is that gone?

[zealous coral]

Sinking plutonium rods is energy ineffective, the balance comes better if plutonium and fisconium plants are build

[oblique hollow]

duh. thats the cost

you either take the energy deal or you go with the whole chain

And given that that chain is tier 9, most then make the conclusion "screw nuclear, i'll stuck to rocket fuel"

[zealous coral]

Yes, I know but from my calculation comes it is better to not use uranium at all, and just build Rocket Fuel Generators

You will use less resources for the same GW power

[oblique hollow]

And i told you "yes, thats the deal"
Uranium / Nuclear power just takes less space usually

because fuel power needs metric tons of fuel generators

[wind spade]

afaik it's not a bug, but a feature, if rails are too close to each other, they are considered one block (as the trains would collide otherwise)

[bleak wagon]

alright so i should move it back some then

[zealous coral]

You can easily overclock generators without energy balance cost

[oblique hollow]

yeah, just make hundreds of power shards or find the slugs

[zealous coral]

but shads you do once and anyway you produce them for Alien Power Matrix for AGM

[oblique hollow]

Thats still Tier 9 production anyway

[zealous coral]

yes, I'm speaking about end game

[oblique hollow]

Ultimately, the resource cost for endgame doesnt matter anymore.
Unless you want to min-max something afterwards

[zealous coral]

yes I think about min-max the map

[oblique hollow]

And i dont care much for that.

If thats your goal, then yes, ditch nuclear

Keep to rocket fuel until you are done with whatever your goal is or until your PC inevitably cannot handle the save file anymore

[zealous coral]

I'm still testing, how it would work with somersloop, there is none useful place to put them for rocket fuel but there are very nice spots with plutonium rods

[bleak wagon]

the places I used somersloop was for copper powder and SAM/ficsite

[oblique hollow]

you would be better off just not using somersloops for that but instead for the Power Augmenter and then some APMs

Somersloops in Rocket fuel are not worth it

Simply because it is so dirt cheap

[zealous coral]

that what i said

but for plutonium fuel rod they can gives more than for AGM

[thorny root]

@wind spade Are factory plans saved in cookies or on your server?

[oblique hollow]

well APMs and the Augmenter always give you a proportional boost to power made so it boosts all power production equally.

Uranium / Plutonium / Ficsonium can probably benefit from it too.... but if you wanna min-max the map, then you cannot max out nuclear power anyway

[wind spade]

they are saved in localstorage (which is kinda similar to cookies, except not sent to server and slightly harder to clear)
if you click the "share" button, then the production line is stored on the server and the link will always work (unless I delete the database 😄 )

[oblique hollow]

it uses too much SAM and you run out and cant process the plutonium anymore

not to mention that you cant produce other things anymore if if invest it all in nuclear power

[thorny root]

via a bit of data that is similar to the share link?

[wind spade]

the share link is basically just identifier for the data index in database

[thorny root]

Okay so it is not de-hashable into data, it's just a link to it.

[quick gorge]

Huh, neat

[wind spade]

yeah, you'll need to call the API to get the data, if you want to figure out the production index

[thorny root]

Neat. So what does the local storage actually look like? Plain text or encoded?

[wind spade]

json encoded

[thorny root]

Ah! Well I can understand the rest then. Json bracket groups solve so much. 😄

ty for the xxplain

[wind spade]

if you want more technical details for some reason, feel free to hit my DMs

[thorny root]

I might but I would have to preface that with "I'm just curious, and I'm not going to be able to do anything useful with this."

[wind spade]

that's fine

[thorny root]

So it's probably more responsible to ... not waste your time 😛

I'm looking into sloop usage for my factory plans. This is where I feel like they will do the most good for my purposes.

106 Total Somersloops
3 get consumed during research
34 used in constructors (overslooped 250) doubling my Reanimated Sam to 5100
4 used per manufacturer, 4 used per Quantum Encoder

OPTION A:
1 Manufacturer (overslooped 250) input: 150 Reanimated SAM, output 50 Sam Fluctuator
2 Quantum Encoder (overslooped 200) output: 20 Alien Power Matrix, 480 DMR (Reduced RSAM usage)
52 total: 40 Somersloops for building 4 Alien Power Augmentor and 12 for the 3 machines.
17 unallocated Somersloops Remaining
OPTION B:
2 Manufacturer (Overslooped 156.25%) input: 187.5 Reanimated SAM, output: 62.5 Sam Fluctuator
2 Quantum Encoder (overslooped 250) output: 25 APM, 600 DMR (Reduced RSAM usage)
66 total: 50 Somersloops for building 5 Alien Power Augmentor and 16 for the 4 machines
3 unallocated Somersloops Remaining

Power increase: ???

On top of the nuclear... I expect over 2 TW.

The intent (and result) is to maximize the power production, and to minimize the SAM required to do it.

[crimson moat]

@oblique hollow

well APMs and the Augmenter always give you a proportional boost to power made so it boosts all power production equally.

While it's true that they boost gross power equally, they do not boost net power equally and that makes sloops disproportionately effective for ficsonium

[oblique hollow]

...beeeecause nuclear has such a high base power demand that using sloops there offsets the cost better...?

[crimson moat]

Yes

If you have 100 gross that takes 10 to make, your net is 90. With doubled power it's 190, so 2.11x net

If you have 100 gross and it takes 50 to make, your net is 50. With doubled power it's 150, so 3x net

It takes a much larger percentage of your gross power to run nuclear, especially full chain, from what i understand

[oblique hollow]

i did the (well. some) math before 1.0 for nuclear vs turbofuel. but never for rocket fuel

[crimson moat]

rocket fuel uses very little power, i'l check

[oblique hollow]

though to be fair.... rocket fuel boosts turbo's gross power by +200%

so theres not much math to add i'd suppose

im not gonna math with nitro rocket because im allowed to be prejudiced against it

[thorny root]

Rocket fuel also uses nitrogen which you need a lot of for fused modular frames, uranium enrichment, and if you need: Quartz purification.

I cannot spare nitrogen for rocket fuel.

At least not much.

[oblique hollow]

yeah but the amount is quite low.
nuclear needs more i think

[zealous coral]

Yes, even with somersloops, Rocket Fuel is 6 times more efficient than Nuclear Power

[oblique hollow]

40 nitrogen per 100 rocket fuel

Rocket fuel is just the easy way out. Just spam fuel gens

Its the dull answer to power problems, honestly

[thorny root]

... for who

[crimson moat]

1667 rocket fuel
gross 100gw, net 95.27 gw

8 uranium fuel rod
gross 100gw, net 85.88gw

auto recipies on tools

[oblique hollow]

for the average slacker of a pioneer

[crimson moat]

the ficsonium chain i believe has gross and net much closer, but it takes some wrangling to get a good number 😛

[fathom warren]

So is it useless to make nuclear?

[thorny root]

yeah but you're going to run out of rocket fuel a long time before you hit the amount of power generated by nuclear...

[fathom warren]

And I should just make crap ton of rocket fuel

[oblique hollow]

only if you are ok with placing hundreds of fuel gens

[crimson moat]

that's not relevant to the convo, it's about sloops being better for nuclear (and especially ficsonium) than for other power

you can go either way

[thorny root]

625,000 Power from 100 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.5 Uranium Fuel Rods. 100 Mk2 pipes, 200 water extractors.
468,750 Power from 75 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.25 Plutonium Fuel Rods. 75 Mk2 pipes, 150 water extractors.
234,375 Power from 37 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% & 1 @ 125% burning 2.5 & 1.25 Ficsonium Fuel Rods. 37 Mk2 pipes 1 Mk1 Pipe, 75 water extractors.
1,328,125 total power from 213 total nuclear power plants, 127,500 water (Jesus christ)

5 APA + 25 APM

[oblique hollow]

average lunatic power plant setup

though then again.... ive always called people who willingly build hundreds of fuel gens lunatics.
but the same goes for those that build hundreds of nukes

[thorny root]

34 sloops in SAM constructors, 8 sloops in manufacturers, 8 sloops in Quantum Encoders, 50 sloops in APA's

[zealous coral]

the resource usage for 1W energy:

[crimson moat]

@oblique hollow So based on a tools link from a reddit post

this guy is converting plutonium waste to ficsonium

25gw gross, only 6.556 net

if he slooped the last stage, it would be about 30gw net instead of 6.6gw, so the sloop would be providing 4 or 5 times the net power output on that production.

whereas on rocket fuel, you at best get a bit over 2x.

The differences are even bigger if you overclock, as it brings consumption and generation closer together

[thorny root]

Slooping quantum encoders instead of manufacturers is still 4 sloops per, but the APA + APM multiplies the total power by more than the ficsonium contributes period.

[crimson moat]

^25gw of rods, costing 18.4gw

[thorny root]

Uranium is the most efficient nuclear power. The other steps detract from that efficiency but are required to complete the chain.