math-and-meta

[pastel obsidian]

B works fine

[dusky bronze]

as long as you have something like a valve or pump to prevent backflow into the waste refineries you'll be fine

[pastel obsidian]

Not even that

[opal locust]

I'm going to need some assistance picturing how stuff will add up

Quantum Encoders are silly machines and I'm trying to figure out how I want to place them for my Superposition Oscillator/AI Expansion Server factory

I'm making 5 Oscillators, but I'm only using 2 of them for my AI Expansion Servers

and I don't know how to math all that dark matter residue/dark matter crystals

do I manually input the dark matter residue from the AI Expansion Server planner into the SO planner?

Or the other way around?

[pastel obsidian]

Greeny would know

[thorn bane]

bro satisfactory modeler was a mistake
ive been looking at this fo the last 4 hours trying to find good looking numbers
pretty happy with this but its just so hard, default rocket fuel really fucks with numbers and its all fluids so you cant balance it

[dusky bronze]

what am i even looking at

[thorn bane]

this

[opal locust]

oh wait, I'm overthinking it

the AI part doesn't need dark matter crystals, so I can simply add that residue into the SO planner

[pastel obsidian]

I think I think it's a stroke

[opal locust]

okay so I only need 75 residue from converting reanimated SAM?

[pastel obsidian]

I think you are just overcomplicating things that don't need to be

[thorn bane]

well yeah but you cant have a 1381 pipe

[pastel obsidian]

split it up into 3 pipes

[thorn bane]

but like how do you split the HOR

also you get way nicer numbers if you limit nitrogen to 1200 instead of oil
blue crater has 2400+150 oil anyway so you have space for the extra oil

like the problem im having is that if you actually do these weird HOR pipes then it becomes impossible to connect it to 600/min oil

[vapid gorge]

that isn't accurate. Direct feeding is very unreliable.

and if there's ever a disruption you generally need to flush the whole system and do a manual reset

[pastel obsidian]

Break it down into smaller modules of pipes of 300 or / 400 pm

each blender and need one refinery of hor

You can group 4 turbo fuel blenders to 3 rocket fuel unless you want to pipe it long distance

[opaque quartz]

alright got those extra 6 ficsonium NPPs online to use the sloop'd rod production. now up to 315 GW

[bleak wagon]

Finally making all the space elevator parts for phase 4, should be done in roughly 9 hours

Time to plan nuclear ig

[thorny root]

The trunk is finished. I had to re-do a side because I forgot to rack on 4 pipes. I'm super happy with how it turned out. 256 water extractors, 128 pipes, 512 packagers. 100% of the surface area available on the river. By accident. There for a while I was almost certain I'd run out of space to put them all. To do: Pumps going up the side of the tower, re-piping the base because I want to do it differently.

[bleak wagon]

If im doing wasteless nuclear, whats the maximum amount of uranium I can use for uranium fuel rods before I cant turn all the waste into plutonium cells

[thorny root]

You can process uranium waste into plutonium cells without adding any uranium ore.

You make 100% of the fuel from uranium into uranium fuel. You spend it all. 2500 and some odd change uranium waste per minute.

50 rods in, 2500 waste out

[bleak wagon]

I only looked at the alt for fissile uranium lol

[thorny root]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=40da8PY0zwx2S3tgtTmy Do note that this chain requires slooped sam.

[bleak wagon]

thats a lot

[thorny root]

You can play with the alt recipe usage for the non high energy parts of the chain but I recommend leaving the rest alone. Or scaling it down.

No, it's not a lot. It's all of it.

Minus 0.2 rods per minute. I'm not turning those into fuel.

That's my nuclear deterrant allocation.

This makes it nice even numbers on the reactors.

625,000 Power from 100 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.5 Uranium Fuel Rods. 100 Mk2 pipes, 200 water extractors.
468,750 Power from 75 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.25 Plutonium Fuel Rods. 75 Mk2 pipes, 150 water extractors.
234,375 Power from 37 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% & 1 @ 125% burning 2.5 & 1.25 Ficsonium Fuel Rods. 37 Mk2 pipes 1 Mk1 Pipe, 75 water extractors.
1,328,125 total power from 213 total nuclear power plants, 127,500 water (Jesus christ)

Again, if you want less, just scale those exact ratios down.

And input the scaled down amount of uranium.

[bleak wagon]

So thats the max you can get out of nuclear power?

[thorny root]

No. Max max is that extra 0.2 rods per minute I pointed out.

This is the max number of whole reactors at 250%

Still. It's max enough for me.

You want nuke grenades right?

[bleak wagon]

yes

[thorny root]

Save that last bit of uranium for those.

Keep your reactor numbers even.

Be happy with having 50000% more power than you're using.

Have fun.

[bleak wagon]

I will

I need to figure out where to build at

[thorny root]

Pick a coast.

I'd start by building the water extractors.

[bleak wagon]

Yeah I was probably going to the northern coast

[thorny root]

Those are going to be the most amount of bullshit and the least amount of fun.

If you survive that, you're good.

[bleak wagon]

I cant wait to place 425 water extractors (1063 if i dont overclock)

[thorny root]

Like... build the water extractors after ... oh nevermind.

I'll let you plan your plan and stop telling you mine XD

[bleak wagon]

Tbh i probably will follow your plan since its basically max. Im gonna just be detangling and organizing this for myself

[thorny root]

Yeah mind you this plan wasn't final but it's functional so it's a good starting point.

You might want to check the alt recipes, the final products on the output because a lot of those high energy outputs are heavily influcing the sam usage, machine count, raws requirements.

I also have no idea how much portal fuel I'm making or how much I need. I just left the dial at that number because I liked that it resulted in some nice round number or clockspeed or usage criteria or something.

[bleak wagon]

Should be fun to figure it all out.

[thorny root]

Yeah. This is a half figured out plan. I don't know if it's going to help you any by dropping you right in the middle of a confusiong situation with a bunch of knobs or letting you create your own from scratch but you're in it now.

[bleak wagon]

Yeah I should probably just start my own plan rather than try to go my own way from the middle of yours

[bleak wagon]

gonna keep track of this though

[thorny root]

Like... I am including things like... The portal fuel. Enough reaction mass or whatever it is for 1 alien power amp.

And 1200 ficsite trigons and 1200 time crystals on top of the 172.5 per minute singularity cells (portal fuel).

Actually you should totally keep this plan and just make minor tweaks to the alt recipes used on the non high energy stuff.

this plan is solid af.

just minor tweaks

It's going to be a learning curve if you start chainging the outputs because it's tuned very carefully. But you're free to do that.

Just make a backup.

[fallow siren]

stress testing fluid train buffer, seems to work fine for now, might add another train on the line since its 1800/min

[bleak wagon]

yeah, definitely will be

as it is this is a learning curve because Ive never done anything in t9 before

[thorny root]

The portal fuel output is the thing I was tuning last... after setting a baseline requirement of 1200 trigons and 1200 time crystals (t6 build mats) per minute to not bottleneck my blueprint spamming...

[bleak wagon]

But I have like 8 hours of waiting until I get phase 4 done so figured I could start planning my endless power

[thorny root]

And the portal fuel is not finally tuned or maybe it is idk I just remember leaving it that number because... Man I don't remember. Have fun.

[bleak wagon]

lol. I will

Im looking at the maxes for all the ores and stuff though and am a little concerned about how much Im going to end up using on power alone

[thorny root]

... can we send trains through portals...

[thorny root]

I unchecked the pure recipes mostly just to see how bad it got. Obviously you can use those to reduce raw requirement at the cost of increased machine count and more water wrangling.

[bleak wagon]

Ah, yeah Im probably gonna use the pures to reduce the raw resources needed, Idm the extra machines/water needed

[thorny root]

Well... the cpu hit in build mode is real.

The bigger you go the more pain and the longer it takes.

Also.... semi frequent crashes.

[bleak wagon]

whats this mean?

[thorny root]

You'll know when you get there. Have fun. 🙂

[bleak wagon]

is it like the game freezing when you place stuff cause if thats what it is that happens for me some already

[pastel obsidian]

What CPU do you have

[thorny root]

5800x3d

[vapid gorge]

is this the time to mention the game crashing bug that happens with too many pipes in one spot?

[thorny root]

How many is too many

[vapid gorge]

I'm guess thing thing you've been doing qualifies at this point

it's the sound from them running that does it

[thorny root]

Well this thing might as well be radioactive then.

In that I won't be able to go anywhere near it when it's running.

It's been crashing me with a fraction of them running. And yes while building pipe. And it makes sense now.

[pastel obsidian]

It should be fine

I wonder if it's an object limit or all of the fluid calculation

[thorny root]

I reckon its more to do with the number of sound channels.

but I didn't read the crash. I just assumed I was going too fast.

slowing down did help but only because it caused less simultaneous pump starts.

which had nothing to do with why I thought it was crashing

[pastel obsidian]

Just hook it up to a switch so you can start them in phases far far away

[vapid gorge]

It's literally the sound crashing it

[opal locust]

I am slowly approaching the end of this AI Expansion Server factory, about a dozen buildings left to place, but they're all drone bays, particle accelerators, and quantum encoders so I still need a lot of space

[vapid gorge]

multiple floors 🙂

[opal locust]

I am not a vertically inclined person, thus behold my largest factory yet, all for 2 AI Expansion Servers/Minute(+3 spare Superposition Oscillators/Minute)

a double smart splitter setup for the SOs so they go to the AIES first, then overflow to the Drone Bay for export, and if that is somehow full, they get sunk. and when I have enough AIES, they'll get sunk as well

[flat hollow]

Woah that's really impressive i am New to the Game and i don't know what half of those things do lol

[viral sparrow]

i used my oscillators from ballistic warp drives for these

[opal locust]

I wanted to tackle this first since you need more AIES than BWDs

basically this half makes the Magnetic Field Generators and Crystal Oscillators for the second half

[viral sparrow]

either way you'll likely be done with the other by the time your finished with one

both of them require lots of machines and such

anyways i still hate crystal oscillators with a burning passion

[opal locust]

while the drones bring in off site materials for the Quantum Encoders to do their work.

[fathom warren]

What recipes you using for crystal oscillators?

[opal locust]

just the standard CO recipe

[viral sparrow]

alternate is a pain in the ass

[rocky seal]

Can someone help me? I want to build COAL POWER and I need to build one that will give me 2700mv. Does anyone have one to offer me?

[pastel obsidian]

That's a lot of coal gens someone can link the diagram but it's 3 water extractors for 8 coal gens

And 120 coal

You need like 36 coal gens round it up to 40 to power all of the water extractors

[thorny root]

I redid my main mainifold... end to end.

And ended up creating a 160 meter double grand stair case out of pipe.

[pastel obsidian]

Looks clean

[thorny root]

It is the cleanest thing I've ever built.

[fathom warren]

What exactly is it making?

[thorny root]

76,800 packaged water per minute.

Obviously that is not quite a final product, and this is just a factory to feed another set of factories.

[pastel obsidian]

Water for earth

I think ADA might have given us slightly different instructions

[thorny root]

I am in fact on a special assignment.

I can say no more.

[opal locust]

with enough drone ports and alternate recipes, I can finish Phase 5 at any spot with Iron and Limestone.

I may have a drone addiction problem.

[outer vale]

is that special assignment to find the #screenshots channel

[tulip kraken]

Can Somebody explain to me way i cant open up the Comand Console?

[cerulean stratus]

I wanna talk a bit about the wire recipes

So first we have copper wire.
It's good. You use copper for more wire
Early on one of the best things this might be used for is stitched plates. You need to use a lot of iron, so if you put in some copper to the mix you can share the burden

Next it's iron wire. Since there's a lot more iron than copper, this is also good. Although most iron is also next to copper

But it can help you avoid the copper production chain

Thing is, without copper wire, the copper you have is really only required for copper sheets, which early on you only use for ai limiters, and storage. So on locations like northern forest, most of your copper remains untapped

[wind spade]

I kinda don't like peiple making the argument "there's more iron than copper", while it's true, it's also a bit misleading as you should base your decisions on local resources rather than global

[wind spade]

Copper rotors 🙂

[cerulean stratus]

Honestly never used it

I don't use it on motors because steel rotors are friendlier there

But I have heard good things about it

[wind spade]

Insanely cheap, with steamed sheets and pure copper, it's 8 copper ore per 10 rotors

(Well, that and some screws)

Steel rotor is quite expensive

[cerulean stratus]

Huh, I guess I thought wrong about the screw cost

[cerulean stratus]

it's also that nuclear pasta heavily skews copper demand

but yeah, about wire
Next things are caterium, and fused wire

which is pretty interesting for a bunch of reasons

[pastel obsidian]

you also have the rest of the map to exploit for copper powder

[cerulean stratus]

1st, ai limiters are first done with caterium and copper and there's no alternative until oil, so there's already a strong reason to have copper and caterium together

that and you can also have fused quickwire

honestly I'm starting to think it doesn't matter if you want caterium wire or fused

like you make ai limiters in one place, other recipes that want caterium like circuit boards, computers and high speed connectors

they want oil, not copper

[pastel obsidian]

It's all just options for what's convenient

Caterium Computer is just quick wire and oil

Plastic and quick wire is AI limiters

[cerulean stratus]

yeah both ai limiters and circuit boards use the same recipes

however, before oil, your option for ai limiters is just copper and caterium

[pastel obsidian]

Some high speed connectors as well

[cerulean stratus]

which is when this fused wire or caterium wire is relevant

to which my answer is: They're kind of the same

you only need a little ai limiters and quickwire for yourself

so you won't really exhaust your nodes with that

[amber umbra]

Many would argue that for personal use the recipe choice doesn’t matter. Just slap down 1:1:1:1 build and call it good.

[fallow siren]

the game just simply gave you options, you dont want to do oil for circuit board? u can always do silicon alt that requires copper and quartz

[cerulean stratus]

it matters a lot because of locations

When these alts give you multiple options to do the same thing it doesn't matter

When these alts allow you to use different things though, they're something else

Like caterium wire is probably still really good when mixed with oil to make metric tons of cable

for high speed connectors

[fallow siren]

tbh i just pick any location i want, since i can just do trains/drones for long distance travel

[cerulean stratus]

I don't use trains, I don't like setting the infrastructure
So my plan is about picking the spots that have all the raw resources I need, and then depot the things
and when it's too many different resources, then I probably have drones

Like for AI limiters for yourself you just need caterium and copper
you want to make more things you would need oil or quartz brought in if they're not nearby
But since it's just you ai limiters become just a random outpost making these things for storage, so whether you use fused wire here or caterium wire kinda doesn't matter

btw, regarding oil and caterium, here's some regions

[amber umbra]

Mhm. Once you get to oil, the game encourages you to do non-zero long distance logistics. Even the circles you showed are fairly far to get the items together.

[cerulean stratus]

yeah caterium wire doesn't really do anything

[cerulean stratus]

well I've seen players do km of belts, so this kind of thing is relatively tame

[amber umbra]

The usual comparisons for alts is like:

1. resource efficiency
2. Power/space requirements
3. Per machine rates for sloop efficiency
4. Ability to reduce amount of raw inputs for a production chain
5. Ability to swap the required raw ingredients

If you don’t build huge factories that use all of a given resource on the map, some of those factors like resource efficiency effectively don’t matter.

[cerulean stratus]

one example of a good alt for me is coke steel

because before to make steel I need coal and iron together, but now I just need oil and iron

so things like modular engines now become possible to be done in one location

[amber umbra]

Power/space you can often just ignore by over building power. If you don’t use sloops in factories, it just leaves the resource types, amount you choose which is mostly player preference. Hence why people have responded with the “alts are player choice/preference”. That said, it’s quite fun planning out alts and finding synergies for larger production chains.

For caterium, the fused quick wire ratios are quite pleasing. I used that in my supercomputer factory.

[cerulean stratus]

oh wow there's also quickwire cable

caterium and copper work like a circle

[amber edge]

yeah i love caterium and copper together, they makes best ratio of wires and quick wires

[cerulean stratus]

yeah the point was just that caterium wire is kinda useless

[amber edge]

what?

[wind spade]

I'd disagree

[amber edge]

computer production, HSC etc

they eats so much quickwire

[cerulean stratus]

because a lot of locations where you want caterium, also have copper so you can make fused wire

[wind spade]

Need wire and have caterium nearby? It's great

[amber edge]

you can make fused quickwires as well

[cerulean stratus]

yes

[amber edge]

you can use copper and caterium for both recipes

[wind spade]

On empty map yeah, but on specific save the copper may not be available

[opaque quartz]

To be fair, drones are great

[cerulean stratus]

makes sense why drones are available so late because otherwise trains wouldn't be able to compete

[amber edge]

well not really, train is still good even until endgame

their throughput is better and no fuel needed to be dealt with

[cerulean stratus]

yeah you make a point, there were some times when I was like "why did you build this here, this is a perfect spot to build turbofuel and ammo"

[cerulean stratus]

they don't need fuel, but they need infrastructure

[wind spade]

Trains and drones do not compete, they coexist, each one fulfilling a different role

[amber edge]

which isnt that hard, just some manual work

you can just lay down 3 tile or 2 tile of foundation and put tracks, not that complicated and save big projects to make it pretty for 1.1

[cerulean stratus]

i would argue you don't need a drone port anymore when you can just get a train to carry x

[amber edge]

yeah but sometimes it's not worth it to build infrastructure to transport a 50pm item

drones is better for that case, i go train once i get over 400 pm needed to transport

[dreamy nimbus]

most things that require circuit boards can't not have oil though

[cerulean stratus]

well that's the beauty of trains though, if you expand that factory your train can still carry things

[amber edge]

you can alway do army of drones but that eats batteries which need production of batteries which is bit costy on limited resources

[cerulean stratus]

actually

drones can use fuel now

[amber edge]

dont get me wrong, i have over dozen stations within my main base

[cerulean stratus]

both fuel, and nuclear rods

[amber edge]

oh haha

looked at scim and i have 80 trains in my world

probably around half tho

im using two locomotives per train

14 stations within main base

[cerulean stratus]

what about a logistics hub

that makes it so some trains don't have to go the whole way

[amber edge]

huh?

[cerulean stratus]

it could lower traffic

[amber edge]

i have world rail and its balanced enough, but that said, i cant really add anything more to this, im waiting for 1.1 to redo my tracks

some trains comes in from right some from left

[cerulean stratus]

but yeah I don't really see any logistics hubs

[amber edge]

highest traffic would be this section but im not getting throughput cut to point that it causes problem

but im not really planning to expand my main base much, still havent decided where to start building next factory area but im thinking either desert or grasslands, those biome is untouched so far

[cerulean stratus]

We don't really see logistics hubs much

[amber edge]

give me example of logistics hub, my system is just main rails with branches into stations which has been working fine so far

i do dedicate certain routes for high throughput trains such as

between those two stations is feeding 1200pm nitrogen and 1200pm sulfur, with almost no other train goign this route

[cerulean stratus]

instead of having a train going from a factory1 to factory2, it first goes to hub A, where another train would take the thing to hub B, and hub to factory2

[amber edge]

oh well its not my system that i designed in mind

that could work but its just extra steps with middlemen, theres no middlemen in my system

[cerulean stratus]

no one designs like that though, and I wonder why

[amber edge]

because its pointless extra steps

[opaque quartz]

A logistics hub is an interesting idea but point-to-point trains are always gonna be faster in this game IMHO

Like it would be a rule of cool thing

[amber edge]

logistics hub just adds more train and traffic, makingmore mess

but its a certain playstyle that someone might want to do

[opaque quartz]

In my second playthrough now and I really embraced trains. I’m rather proud of my rail networks. Nothing to the level of what Hornslet has come up with, but it is functional and semi-aesthetic

First playthrough I just used drones for everything

[amber edge]

ye trains awesome and op in game

[opaque quartz]

FWIW building rails is much easier in 1.1

[amber edge]

yeah cant wait

[cerulean stratus]

well, a question you ask in this game is "will you be using trains or not"
if not, you'll just be building things locally for depot, and drones for more complex things
if yes, you'll be making big specialized factories and carrying those items by train

[fallow siren]

free rotate and smaller turn are definitely big changes

[amber edge]

you can rotate bp in 1.1?

[fallow siren]

i mean the rail hologram itself can be rotated

u cant do that pre 1.1

[cerulean stratus]

oh, like belts

how do you guys think the game would change if we could direct logistics directly

with percentage or ppm

if programmable splitters worked the way you thought they would

[amber edge]

not really

[outer vale]

we'd have less newbs asking "how do I split these iron ingots"

[amber edge]

manifolds just do that

with enough time, everything will manifolds eventually as olong you input enough amount below belt limitation

incorrectly load balanced will manifolded in time

[cerulean stratus]

like real world logistics have this ability

but in here it feels like we have to dance around it

[amber edge]

it will be easier for sushi belts system but who does it anyway

just do manifolds my man

[cerulean stratus]

:(

[outer vale]

it'd probably have about as much impact as priority mergers did

[cerulean stratus]

do priority mergers have that much impact

like it's good for recycling byproduct

[outer vale]

no (and that's the joke)

[cerulean stratus]

but the only thing that really changed was for the belt logic guys
<-

[amber edge]

yeah its good to keep recycling going like empty tanks for nitrogen and such but we already have ways to do it without PM, they just give eaier ways and reduce some logistics to achieve it

final line, theres nothing we cant do that PM will offer

[cerulean stratus]

one thing I like is that it's now easier to maximize a belt

[amber edge]

uh smart splitters do that????

[outer vale]

not a use case that's particularly common, but it's something

[amber edge]

overfill with merger

its just injection

[cerulean stratus]

if you have a main belt and some supporting belts

you want to prioritze the throughput of the main belt

[amber edge]

uh smart splitters? have it fed into its own section that eats speific amount then direct overfill into main bus with no backup caused on main bus

its just manifold injection

for example one of my aluminum plant have 1800 pm scraps so i had first belt which is 720 to 1080 fed into section that eats 600 scraps then direct the overfill onto 1080 and its perfect 1200 with no back up

[fallow siren]

can simply use the overflow filter to prioritize main belt

[cerulean stratus]

what we had before is this

[amber edge]

as i said, PM just makes things smaller, we can do anything it offers anyway

see this

not even big, smart splitter is directing 720 into branch which eats 600 and then 120 goes into main belt with 1080 making 1200

[amber edge]

all of this can be reduced to simple manifold with sections

[cerulean stratus]

what? this is multiple full belts

[amber edge]

one area got 3600 screw throughput so i just make sections that eats amount of screws that belt can offer then split them into sections without any load balancing done

like you got 5 600 belts, direct them into 5 sections that eats 600

much much more simpler logistics

[cerulean stratus]

Alright, well you might see no use for it, but me and several other people have found it to be a great addition

[amber edge]

nah i will use PM

as i said few times, PM downsizes the already doable logistics systems

[cerulean stratus]

well the biggest place I need them in was doing some boolean belt logic

so thats great

[amber edge]

why not just divide them up into sections

5 full belts of screws each feeding into their own sections that eats up the amount, no load balancing, logsitics, injection done, just simple sections

[wind spade]

It would lose its main puzzle element

[cerulean stratus]

is it really a puzzle?

[wind spade]

Yes

[amber edge]

yes in sense

puzzle isnt limited to jigsaws as you know

puzzle is concept of thinking to solve something

[cerulean stratus]

I never thought the hard part was the balancing, people just either use manifolds or dedicated chains, some times a mix

[amber edge]

do you build factories without designing and thinking how to solve approaches

[cerulean stratus]

the getting enough supply was the big thing

[amber edge]

choosing right recipes to lead up production is puzzle itself

[cerulean stratus]

is part of the puzzle

[amber edge]

determining best location with nodes and supplies from train logistics is puzzle

[cerulean stratus]

yeah, but if I have a manifold making 600, saying 350 goes to place A, 200 to place B and 50 for storage is a bit more complicated than I think it should be

[amber edge]

just manifold them all single belt?

600 thats under the belt limiation

as long all outputs total equals or under the input of single belt is manifolded

[cerulean stratus]

And how come manifolding is a more valid solution than just saying how much I want to go where

because there's load time?

what if one of them is a train station that will take 2 ages to load completely

[amber edge]

then it works just perfectly with least logisitcs

load times isnt that bad as we sink hours into game

just build it and go somewhere else do something and it will warm up on its time

[cerulean stratus]

what if we're talking not of 600, but of 60 turbo motors

[amber edge]

then use drones

be wise, use pieces correctly, that is the appeal of puzzle

[cerulean stratus]

again, yes there's ways around it, but it feels like I'm dancing around an issue that could just be solved entirely, especially since load balancing isn't really the game's biggest puzzle, it's figuring out how to do enough supply

[amber edge]

how will PM solve your problem of 60pm turbomotor that need transportation

[cerulean stratus]

this isn't about PM

[amber edge]

what is it about then

[cerulean stratus]

it's about a better PSplitter

[amber edge]

there is load balancing methods if you really wanted but then just let manifold do its thing, i had 15 pm HMF being transported by train, it filled up in no time in sense of playing game normally

[restive sparrow]

You say you are having trouble with concept A, but you shouldnt be because it's not an issue and the issue should be concept B? Sounds like concept A really is a challenge and that's ok.

You can use trains with low throughout parts. Just don't tell it to wait till it's full.

[cerulean stratus]

we had more challenge making a central storage and they gutted the idea

[amber edge]

you still can

nobody stopping you

[cerulean stratus]

no reason to do it

it's more complicated to do it

and it gives no benefits

[amber edge]

what about the logisitcs hub you mentioned? that is techincally central storage

[cerulean stratus]

the idea was to reduce traffic on the grid by making things more local

not to centralize storage

[amber edge]

but by making things local you increases traffic?

instead of cutting out middle men stuff

what picture

[cerulean stratus]

another thing is that you would really only be able to do this late game

[amber edge]

No reason to do big numbers in early game anyway

Just stick to your belt currently and make factories around map, do independency, trains is permanent and very scalable, so all the more reason to do infrastructure over big factories, save them later when you actually need it

[cerulean stratus]

Wym infrastructure over big factories

[amber edge]

More worthy projects to invest in early game

You don’t need 100 hmf in phase 3

[cerulean stratus]

You will still need big factories

[amber edge]

100 hmf pm big?

[cerulean stratus]

Oh

I made 10 a few days back

It was pretty big

The painful part was the 50 mf per min

[amber edge]

Phase 4 is when game start pushes you to do bigger factories with dependencies such as products like aluminum and plastic to be transported which trains massively help, if you commit in phase 3 game flows easier

Phase 5 is when everything begin to culminate

That’s my experience with game so far

[cerulean stratus]

My experience is that thermal rockets is a pain

[amber edge]

Wasn’t too bad to me

Cuz I had system going that delivered complicated parts such as 100 motor pm factory I did with 50pm automated wiring factory n etc then feed it into one factory that holds all manufactures and I got 5/5/2.5/2 ratio for rocket parts pm

I used mixed of drones and trains

[cerulean stratus]

Mine was

The outposts with the fuel are drones

They get things from somewhere else

[quick gorge]

I 100% didn't just think you were making HMF out of fuel... nah

[amber edge]

I’m using pure iron and limestone recipe for hmf, pick some spot in world and make it and call it day

Iron tubes and encased tubes saves the day, with iron wires for stitched plates

[cerulean stratus]

Honestly I find that iron alloy is better

[amber edge]

I mean iron only

No other raw resources

Just iron and limestone

[cerulean stratus]

Oh yeah true

[amber edge]

But I’m using pure iron tho

I love refineries, idk why they r not loved by everybody

[cerulean stratus]

I don't like dealing with the refineries

[amber edge]

Damn smh

They are amazing, amazing recipes

Leached caterium, pure copper, steamed rolls n etc

[cerulean stratus]

They're big, bulky, costly
Can barely fit in blueprints

[amber edge]

Smh just 4 refinery in mk2 is plenty

[cerulean stratus]

And then I'd also have to deal with liquids

[quick gorge]

I love my 17 million refineries and the oceans they drink every second

[amber edge]

Sounds skill issues

[cerulean stratus]

I can fit 12 foundries with that

Iron ingot go brrr

[quick gorge]

That was about 80% sarcasm btw

[amber edge]

Poor you dealing with aluminum

[quick gorge]

more around 78.54% but who cares? :3

[cerulean stratus]

Btw how much aluminum do you guys end up using for phase 4

I ended up realising just 1 bauxite node wasn't enough

[amber edge]

Well when I entered phase 4 I made 900:900 bauxite to al, then later I made silica fluid recycle factory and supplied 1500 silica making 900:1200

[dusky dust]

Just make more when you need it

On my 1.0 save I ended up with I think six different aluminum-production areas

[amber edge]

I have 2 so far

2400 aluminum total

[dusky dust]

As with anything else, how much you actually need depends on how big you build and what recipes you're using, etc

[amber edge]

Second one was for ficsite production

Still plenty bauxite nodes left idk if I will use it all up

[cerulean stratus]

The most expensive thing really is just all the casing for the fused frames

[amber edge]

Alclad have expensive usage as well for heat sink

And mk5 belts

[cerulean stratus]

I found that 1 machine for belts was enough

[amber edge]

But casing is more expensive yeah, I would suggest supply copper for alt recipe

[cerulean stratus]

But fused frames want ridiculous numbers of aluminum casing

[amber edge]

Well I find that trade off for such simple recipe

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah especially since you already want them together for heat sinks anyway

[amber edge]

Hmf, casing, and nitrogen that’s it

Oh well I’m supplying alclad and casing out of aluminum factory

And making heatsink in factories that need it

Not much recipes need heatsink

[bleak wagon]

I made my factory for the space elevator parts all with one machine doing them and am just afking while I work on my plan for a power plant

[oblique hollow]

alright, after some more troubleshooting of nukes in https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1362075335235211476 this post, im now fairly convinced that putting the input of your manifold in the middle is better than at the end

having 3 exits on a junction used is better than just 2

[bleak wagon]

makes sense

[oblique hollow]

especially with 600/min flow rate

[dusky dust]

Oh noes, we'll need a new Standard Image. :D

[wind spade]

does it really do a difference vs the standard vertical manifold loop?

[oblique hollow]

its basically the same in that regard

im just distilling the core meaning of those 2 things down:
use 3 junction exits when you have 600/min flow, not 2

and use the lowest pipe mk possible for your machines

if they dont actively need more than 300/min piped up their butt, use a mk 1 pipe

in a manifold this applies too. if the machine needs 300/min at most, use mk 1 pipes for connections to the junctions

and valves are actually perfectly fine now

[wind spade]

yeah, perfectly fine, allowing 240.9 when set to 240

[bleak wagon]

lol

[oblique hollow]

rounding error on the flow rate display

its actually 240

[wind spade]

isn't it the 8bit number thingy?

[bleak wagon]

how stupid is this decision?

[quick gorge]

Can just set it up like this

[bleak wagon]

interesting

[quick gorge]

It just works ™️

[bleak wagon]

Im working on my nuclear plans rn so Im probably not gonna make use of that yet because Im trying to make as much as I can at my nuclear plant

[quick gorge]

Im working on my nuclear plans
Saaaame 😢

[bleak wagon]

I started with the uranium fuel rods and Im realizing now I shouldve started from the ficsite fuel rods and worked all the way back

[dusky dust]

Starting from Uranium isn't a bad idea, since Uranium is quite a bit simpler than everything that comes after

Can just accumulate waste for awhile while you get other things figured out

[quick gorge]

PTSDcat.gif

[dusky dust]

Though, yeah, if you want a fully-clean solution and underestimate how quickly Ficsonium eats SAM, that could be problematic. :D

[bleak wagon]

Yeah thats probably better to do since I only have a 10GW grid rn and Im going to need power to get this going

can always just make an ecological dead zone out of waste until i need it

[oblique hollow]

Roughly speaking, if you start with ficsonium, then plutonium will yield double the power of that. and uranium will yield double the power of plutonium

[quick gorge]

I'm not doing this for the power.
I'm doing this so I can make an IKEA showroom full of IKEA lamps before they get processed into ficsonium fuel rods

[bleak wagon]

yeah I talked to someone last night about this and I have the requirements for the reactors

[dusky dust]

Yeah, waste storage honestly is not a big deal. You know how quickly you'll generate waste, so you can figure out how long a single ISC buys you, so you know how many ISCs to build to give yourself, like, 100 hours of playtime. Just make sure to build more if you're 100 hours in and still haven't started processing them. :P

Slap 'em in some out-of-the-way corner and Bjorn Stronginthearm's your uncle

[bleak wagon]

2500 waste/min is a lot

[oblique hollow]

uranium waste?

[wind spade]

BP full of ISCs is lotter

[dusky dust]

Fortunately ISCs are easily blueprintable. :D

[bleak wagon]

yeah

for storing its a lot

[bleak wagon]

very true

[dusky dust]

2.5k/min is a lot, though, yeah. Though that kind of build goes into the "you're doing this to yourself" category, of course. :D (I say that without judgement!)

[bleak wagon]

I love doing this

should give me stuff to do for a few weeks

[quick gorge]

[dusky dust]

(Honestly with that much, I wonder if there's even enough SAM on the map to fully convert to Ficsonium; I suspect you're likely to end up having to store some Pu Waste anyway. Though it's been awhile since I've looked at the numbers) (edit: or not, ignore me)

[quick gorge]

There is dw

[bleak wagon]

I should be possible based off what I found out when I talked to someone about it last night

Idk what all SAM is used for though or how much this is going to eat

[quick gorge]

*You will need to sloop some of the reanimation. .

[dusky dust]

Ficsonium is very SAM-hungry, though sloops can help extend it.

[bleak wagon]

So its more of a theres barely enough

[dusky dust]

Outside of Ficsonium you can get away with very little SAM usage for other stuff

(Though you'd want to make use of the more Dark Matter Residue efficient Dark Matter Crystal recipes, to avoid having to make your own DMR to supplement)

[bleak wagon]

I dont even know what that is lmao, Im afking phase 4 as we speak

[quick gorge]

Hope this helps :)

[dusky dust]

handwavey handwavey

[quick gorge]

Note I am using and only using alu SAM

hoy hoy alu flavoured ficsite

[wind spade]

you can also use less-Pu-efficient recipes to reduce the amount of needed SAM, due to having less Pu power

[dusky dust]

Yeah, the others are tempting, but it's real difficult to argue with Aluminum Ficsite SAM efficiency

(I did do a bit of both Iron + Caterium on my 1.0 save, though)

[quick gorge]

Any other recipe I legit cannot make all the things I want to make here

the 1200 reanimated is going towards 40 power matrices/m
24 slooped reanimating SAM, that's all 104 sloops on the map 😅 I have no wiggle room on this high level shit

163.33 is the remaining SAM/m... I have that much wiggle room...

[dusky dust]

Should use that extra 163/min to convert yourself some more aluminum, to make just a bit more. :D

[bleak wagon]

Im gonna go back to my planning, Im gonna start again/continue from ficsite though and probably not build anything for ficsite until after I have enough waste to make LGIO jealous

[dusky dust]

Aluminum Ficsite But Using Only Iron And SAM™

[quick gorge]

Nah ill make more uranium so I have to recalculate everything

[bleak wagon]

which electromagnetic control rod recipe is better? Ive been looking at the one using AI limiters but I do wonder if using HSC is better

[quick gorge]

Ech I'll see if I can use a smidge less alu and use every drop of SAM on the map.
I don't really want to convert X to Y to Z

Wait maybe... ya get 50.4 rods a min. Might up that so I don't have a reactor at 200 and not 250 🤔

[bleak wagon]

this is information I got given on it

625,000 Power from 100 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.5 Uranium Fuel Rods. 100 Mk2 pipes, 200 water extractors.
468,750 Power from 75 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% burning 0.25 Plutonium Fuel Rods. 75 Mk2 pipes, 150 water extractors.
234,375 Power from 37 Nuclear Power Plants @ 250% & 1 @ 125% burning 2.5 & 1.25 Ficsonium Fuel Rods. 37 Mk2 pipes 1 Mk1 Pipe, 75 water extractors.

[wind spade]

that depends on what you call "better"

[bleak wagon]

less raw resources

[wind spade]

and how you value the resoruces 🙂

[dusky dust]

lol, you actually do save on SAM if you convert Iron to Aluminum and use that for Ficsite, as opposed to going Iron->Ficsite directly

[wind spade]

1 iron probably isn't worth 1 oil or 1 quartz

[dusky dust]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=0wPqE3kbSpLhZOEHTeiG (conversion) vs. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Njcsl6eO5huv78EDWFwI (direct)

(at the cost of 25% more iron, which honestly does not seem bad)

I am so doing that somewhere, whenever I start a new playthrough

And more power, re: cost

[bleak wagon]

Idk what I did in my nuclear plan but I dont have to sloop reanimated SAM production to have enough for nuclear, I justhave to sloop it so I can actually use SAM for other stuff

oh I didnt finish with the things SAM is needed for

dark matter residue

[quick gorge]

wuh?

Also the roundest I could get the reactors is converting to make 900 more uran so... 3000, a round number...
144 uran reactors,
128 plut reactors,
64 Fics reactors

Not a single one under 250 :3

not enough SAM

[oblique hollow]

@restive sparrow #math-and-meta message
see here (and the conversations below that)

[restive sparrow]

Thanks mate

[torn plaza]

jesus christ, praise be

[torn plaza]

knowing this will end up doing full uranium plutonium ficsonium, this is like staring into the face of god

[quick gorge]

What do you think I meant by IKEA?

[torn plaza]

flat pack furniture?

[torn plaza]

[quick gorge]

IKEA lamps :)

[oblique hollow]

average Ficsonium Madness

[quick gorge]

And the looping organs arrow...

Teehee I loop organ
I burn temple

[dusky dust]

(gods, I just cannot resist commenting how awful those graphs are to follow)

[bleak wagon]

if you think thats bad heres what im working with rn

[quick gorge]

They are shite but like that's because I haven't put effort into make them human readable (I am not human)

[quick gorge]

I can read that clearly.
Waaait

[dusky dust]

It's not the graph layout/flow itself that I take issue with, it's the complete and total lack of labelling

To even know what's being produced you've gotta zoom in on tiny little icons and hope you know what the icon means. Let alone knowing what recipe(s) are in use, etc.

[quick gorge]

better?

[dusky dust]

Not a problem for the person using the utility, since they can just mouseover, but you can't do that with a screenshot

[bleak wagon]

I will label once I have everything set in stone

[quick gorge]

this actually

[dusky dust]

The tool should be labelling it for you, is my main gripe.

Just effing put some damned text on your graphs, Modeller

[bleak wagon]

fair enough

[quick gorge]

@whoevermadesatisfactorymodeler

damn, didn't work

[dusky dust]

Heh; I'd submitted a FR on their Steam page, though I expect their Discord would be the better place to submit it

Though I also expect that's just not in their "vision" and also I expect I would end up sounding ranty and hostile, so I figure I'll avoid the Discord. :P

[quick gorge]

If I could be botherd I would and if they pull that shit I can just pull rank (out of my ass)

this is a joke

An issue with auto labelling is the text would end up super small too

This would make my eyes bleed

I like to feel insulated when I cry too....

[bleak wagon]

lmao

[dusky dust]

I just need to boil some oceans and create an AI something that'll autodetect Modeller graphs on Discord and just Not Show Them To Me™. :D

That or get over it

[quick gorge]

It does have work to do in the way of "being able to show someone else"abilty

[dusky dust]

I'll just opt for getting over it; I'm sure I'm annoying people by bringing it up at this point. :P

[quick gorge]

Dude I get it dw, I hate how messy my own shit it but I need to make sure it works before making it loop pretty

That said I have labelled the 3 "folders" that contain the processes

[bleak wagon]

As long as I can eventually make it through my production planner idc what it looks like lol

[quick gorge]

Sadly my sense of humour consists of naming them:

• Chernobyl
• Fukushima
• Three Mile (Paradise) Island

[bleak wagon]

thats amazing

[quick gorge]

I'm soo cooked. (with radiation)

Unironically I'm keeping these

Anyway back to nerd things like numbers and stuff;
I am kinda sad I can't convert to make more uranium without removing some of my APA

[white bloom]

Yes, Aluminum->Ficsite is great.
The most SAM efficient ways to make Ficsite after raw Bauxite->Ficsite and assuming no overslooping are actually, in descending order:

• Caterium->Bauxite->Ficsite,
• then Copper->Bauxite->Ficsite,
• then Quartz->Bauxite->Ficsite,
• then ((Coal->Silica)+(Sulfur->Copper->Bauxite))->Ficsite,
• then Coal->Quartz->((Silica)+(Caterium->Bauxite))->Ficsite,
• then Iron->Sulfur->Copper->Bauxite->Ficsite,
• then Limestone->Coal->Quartz->Caterium->Bauxite->Ficsite
• finally purely from SAM, with no other resources drained after kickstarting, with a slightly productive infinite (Limestone-Coal-Sulfur) loop allowing to extract some Limestone for Limestone->Iron->Ficsite

[quick gorge]

But I need more SAM ;---;

[worn heath]

The math on this is really difficult to get my head around for sloppy alumina and electrode scrap.

Sloppy alumina
200 water in : 240 sloppy alumina out

Electrode Aluminum Scrap
180 sloppy alumina in : 105 water out

How do I find mathematical balance?

[bleak wagon]

I finished my nuclear plan, the resource cost per minute is

• 2083.3 uranium
• 1063.03 crude oil
• 153,393.95 water
• 5916.67 bauxite
• 4937.44 nitrogen
• 3083.28 sulfur
• 18,211.95 limestone
• 5634.71 coal
• 8107.11 quartz
• 7812.5 SAM
• 3519.91 copper ore
• 2669.91 caterium ore

should be fun

this is a disaster

[versed violet]

A soundtrack for that build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9WWz95ripA

[quick gorge]

I do actually need a soundtrack for this project as I'm wanting to make a video going through every section of it, I do have one type... of song for one area 😏

[wind spade]

https://tenor.com/view/culture-man-of-culture-cultured-gif-10903367

[grizzled grove]

Modeler is cool

Tho uh I’d rather a computer do it for me :3

[open carbon]

I hate radio control units now.

On the bright side I have enough of them to automate both pasta and thermal propulsion rockets.

[amber edge]

Why is that so, I felt RCU kind of easy to do

Turbo motors is harder

That I had to just went “fuck it I’m making 100 pm motors independent factory to feed it”

[amber umbra]

@worn heath These are my notes for a 300 bauxite to 600 scrap using sloppy, electrode. % is the clock %. You find the numbers for each machine with algebra.

[grizzled grove]

You’d be surprised how many people can’t do… basic algebra

[amber edge]

What algebra? I don’t see any in it lol

[open carbon]

I am on a playthrough where I build every one of my factories in one spot.

Belt work and HSCs were the worst part of automating these accursed things.

[amber edge]

True HSC is pain doing it but once you dealt with quick wires and ai limiters it’s fairly easy after that

I had off site factory feeding plastic and steamed rolls, that helped production for stuff like hsc, rcu etc

[grizzled grove]

So this guy understands algebra…

[amber umbra]

Algrebra part is converting from the raw item/minute values into the correct clock percents for each refinery to get the recycled water correct. Then scale appropriately to nice numbers.

[grizzled grove]

You’d be surprised how often water confuses people here

[amber edge]

That is the already done algebra? People don’t need to do algebra for that as long they follow it

But although I am doubtful if anyone who doesn’t like math like game about math

[amber umbra]

@amber edge Yes. I'm saying that the way you find those numbers uses algebra just a bit.

[amber edge]

Just a bit yes

Middle school level algebra at most

[amber umbra]

Or just brute force it with guess check.

Anyway. Clearly people playing this game can do algebra. I'm just trying to help someone figure out how to set up aluminum.

[amber edge]

Or they can just go nice numbers with amount produced and don’t worry about percentages although it’s easy like just 200/3 for 66.667

[grizzled grove]

Hey man, people are dumb at times

[quick gorge]

"You can't fix stupid" - someone

[amber umbra]

Kinda weird to jump to "people can't do algebra" just because I mentioned it uses algebra.

[grizzled grove]

“What do you do with waste water”

The satisfactory Rorschach

[quick gorge]

Note I did not read any context, I just read this one message

[quick gorge]

Drink it, duh

[grizzled grove]

TRUTH

[obtuse leaf]

FICSIT does not waste!

[grizzled grove]

Glug glug glug glug

[quick gorge]

It's introducing vital microplastics into my brain

-# I made myself sad

I suppose I should start as I mean to start;
SAMual consolidation

[grizzled grove]

But in actually, what do you do with waste water

[bleak wagon]

just a few pipes

[quick gorge]

Oh you mean actually, I'm normally just here to crack jokes at every chance I get.
how much waste water you got?

[grizzled grove]

Any amount, any system

Without knowing any other factories, what do you do with it

[quick gorge]

W-WW

more specifically WI-WWO

[quick gorge]

Pre fill it

[grizzled grove]

Chat he’s… he’s… HES BASED

[quick gorge]

I'd be more WaterInput - WasteWaterOutput = SysWaterInput
but I couldn't resist over simplifying it
WI-WWO=SWI

[grizzled grove]

The other acceptable answer is like, moving waste water into another factory line

[bleak wagon]

I was debating turning wastewater into packaged water and sinking it until I realized how many canisters thats gonna take

[grizzled grove]

But in terms of like every day production, looping the basic aluminum is super easy and super solid in all contexts

[grizzled grove]

I have seen people here tell new players to do that

I wept

[bleak wagon]

I have like

6000 wastewater/min or smth in what im currently working on

Im using it though because its less water extractors I have to place

(1300 if i dont use overclocks)

[grizzled grove]

[quick gorge]

Is this any better?

[bleak wagon]

whats the point of packaging the water in that?

[torn plaza]

what the fuck

[bleak wagon]

well it worke

d

[quick gorge]

[torn plaza]

[bleak wagon]

how many power shards can you get from power slugs if you sloop all of them?

[quick gorge]

a lot

[bleak wagon]

I have a power slug hunt to go on because I need like 2200 power shards

[grizzled grove]

ERM, electrode aluminum scrap

🤓

[quick gorge]

596*2+
389*4+
257*10```

5318

[grizzled grove]

Small number

I get that many screws in 2 minutes

[bleak wagon]

Ive gotten 0 screws/min in my last 50 hours of gameplay

[open carbon]

I need to hunt down elders to grind up into shards in a machine imbued with the power of an artefact I stole from a strange looking goat so I can unlock funky fuel for my generator so I can power my funny aurora borealis machine.

[bleak wagon]

lmao

Im up to like 100/(at least)1600 shards

[open carbon]

Sorry the funny purple orb took over then, what I meant to say is that I need to find purple slugs to unlock ionised fuel.

[mossy shard]

Why do you need ion fuel before synthetic power shards?

[quick gorge]

That is a bad idea 👀

[open carbon]

||DARK ION FUEL!|| So I can power all the encoders for phase 5.

[mossy shard]

dark ion fuel is power negative

[open carbon]

Wait what?

[mossy shard]

Burning the rocket fuel nets you more energy than the ion fuel that it produces

Since you need 2 m^3 rocket fuel for each packaged

Ion fuels one of the worst things to burn. It’s mainly just used for packaging in the Jetpack.

[open carbon]

But I already have rocket fuel, and I need an excuse to oversloop a blender!

[bleak wagon]

Im just doing max nuclear so I can ignore the idea of power

[quick gorge]

Slooplication is fun

[open carbon]

Yes sir it is!

||still doing ionised so I have all four fuel types||

[quick gorge]

The infinity fuels

Uranium, Plutonium, Ficsonium,
Fuel, Turbo Fuel, Rocket Fuel, Ionized fuel

[torn plaza]

coal

[open carbon]

coal

[torn plaza]

biomass

geo

[bleak wagon]

uranium

[open carbon]

iron

[torn plaza]

water

[bleak wagon]

youre not wrong

[open carbon]

copper

limestone

[bleak wagon]

tears of the damned

[open carbon]

ground up elders

bauxite

quartz?

SAM

leaves?

[quick gorge]

No one fucking mentioned compacted coal, an actual fuel.

[open carbon]

crude oil

[white bloom]

well, the linking element here is the alumina solution throughput.
SA * 240 /min = EAS * 180 /min
SA * 4 = EAS * 3
Where SA and EAS are the activities (number of buildings X clock speed) of the Sloppy Alumina and Electrode Aluminum Scrap recipes, respectively.

So for example, you could build 3 SA Refineries and 4 EAS Refineries, because 3 * 4 = 4 * 3. Or you build the same number of both, but underclock the SA ones to 3/4 = 75%. Whatever you like, as long as 4 SA = 3 EAS.

[torn plaza]

nobody uses compacted coal c'mon

[quick gorge]

Early game my guy

Plus if you're going to claim to have all the fuel you need all the fuels

[torn plaza]

it's the Milhouse of power

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-coming-up-milhouse-flood-high-water-gif-3546059

[wind spade]

untrue

[torn plaza]

(i am shitposting i know statistically some people use it)

[bleak wagon]

I severely under estimated the time its going to take to find the power slugs for getting 1600 power shards

[open carbon]

If you post about it I will cheer you on.

[bleak wagon]

im at roughly 400 rn

I might just setup making synethic shards and go place 500 water extractors while I wait

[open carbon]

Good luck! I believe in you!

[quick gorge]

FICSIT believes in you

[bleak wagon]

ficsit would sell my organs

[quick gorge]

Why would they need to? They already have clones. . .

[open carbon]

Shhh you aren’t allowed to disclose that info!

[quick gorge]

Oh yeah I'm not in my home terf of https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1283457093696749609

[open carbon]

Keep going!

[bleak wagon]

yeah, the way I look at this is the more of these I do the less pipes I have to place

[quick gorge]

CONSUME MORE

[bleak wagon]

gotta consume the power slugs to use in this monstrosity

[open carbon]

Oh my spaghetti!

[bleak wagon]

yeah

[quick gorge]

That's only most of the ficsonium you can make (without conversion)

[bleak wagon]

its just spagehetti because I gaveup at keeping it organized towards the end

[bleak wagon]

its for my nuclear power plant, I havent even thought about the other things

[quick gorge]

I'm not even 1% done with my thing dw

[bleak wagon]

Ive got the plan for it and am doing the hardest part first

water

[quick gorge]

cough
I know right

[bleak wagon]

its like 97,000 water for just the reactors and i managed to throw another 55,000 on top of that

[bleak wagon]

tbh now that i think about it the only reason it became so much spaghetti is because I was totaling the resource costs and thats what the line of stuff at the bottom is

[quick gorge]

:)

[bleak wagon]

ngl this is fun to think about

I only have a 10GW power grid rn

Im gonna have a fun time starting my nuclear plant

[open carbon]

Are leached iron ingots yay or nay?

[wind spade]

do you like them? yay
do you not like them? nay

[open carbon]

I like them so I’m gonna use them!

Thanks for answering.

[wind spade]

it's like that with any recipe, there's never a "bad" choice 😉

all of them have their uses

[bleak wagon]

well bio coal exists

[wind spade]

and is useful in some scenarios 🤷

[bleak wagon]

yeah I can think of like

very few situations its useful

but for the most part its like why would you take that over the other option

[wind spade]

taking a recipe doesn't mean that you have to use it

[bleak wagon]

yeah ik

[quick gorge]

Challenge:
You're not allowed to harvest any coal.
You can only get goal from biocoal/charcoal recipes.
You will want to sloop alien protein ;3

[wind spade]

sounds easy enough given that you have things where you can do coke

[bleak wagon]

I forgot how many slugs are in this part of the map

[wind spade]

infinitely many if you count doggos 😛

[quick gorge]

erm

[bleak wagon]

theres a recipe to craft them...

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it's Slug Central up there

[dusky dust]

Well, technically you're producing the shards, not the slugs. For infinite slugs specifically, you need doggo help. :P

[bleak wagon]

true

I still need so many more

ykw time to start crafting them, Im tired of collection slugs

and also synthetic shard time

[quick gorge]

[bleak wagon]

before I blow the fuse on my power gridI should probably turn off the space elevator parts

mmmmm tickets

[torn plaza]

easy

[quick gorge]

I've seen that quite a few times actually

[bleak wagon]

lmfao

[torn plaza]

ye is good meme

[quick gorge]

There's a mod that adds more hostiles to the map... Might consider it

[bleak wagon]

I find the small coal plant in the background of this funny considering how much power they use compared to what that coal plant contributes

[crimson moat]

You get way more power if you make solid biofuel + liquid biofuel, instead of coal

[wind spade]

well since the challenge was to play without harvesting coal, I'd say the point is to get specifically coal 🙂

[bleak wagon]

I have about 1/34th of the water setup lol

[outer vale]

looks suspiciously pumpless

[bleak wagon]

shit

[quick gorge]

womp womp

[bleak wagon]

its also got no power rn, but thats a future me problem

I have no idea how I plan to start my nuclear plant with my current power grid tbh

[thorn bane]

how much scrap do you want
lets say 1200
that means you need 1200 * 180/300 solution = 720
1200 scrap is 1200/300=4 scrap buildings
720 solution is 720/240=3 solution buildings
NOW you do the water
4 scrap buildings make 420 water
3 solution buildings need 600
600-420=180 so you need 180 fresh water

[wind spade]

why not put the plants directly in front of the extractors?

[thorn bane]

bonus points for splitting it up
420 recycled water turns into 420/200 = 2.1 recycled alumina solution buildings
180 fresh turns into 180/200 = 0.9 fresh alumina solution buildings
id just overclock the 2.1 to have 1 or 2 buildings

[bleak wagon]

Well, 1/3 of the extractors are for the process of making the fuel rods

so those are the ones im placing rn

[wind spade]

same question for those - why not place them in front of machines that need them

[thorn bane]

power storage
store some power now with your current grid
once youre done building you can use that stored power to gap the time between turning it on and getting power from it

[bleak wagon]

Im gonna have to store a lot of power considering I have a 10GW grid rn

[thorn bane]

power storages are INSANE so ye

[dusky bronze]

i probably should have used that iron alt for something

the water one

[quick gorge]

This is the correct response to "Is Xrecipe better then Yrecipe" Just show all of them like this

[thorn bane]

this should be on the wiki...

[quick gorge]

Ain't this on the wiki, but less visually

[bleak wagon]

How much do you think I would need to get 300,000MW of production going

[thorn bane]

no these fuckers removed that

[quick gorge]

WHAT?

I haven't been on the wiki for recipes in a while

[wind spade]

the correct response is this, but in a tool that's visually good enough to know which oen is which

(aka please add labels to modeller)

[wind spade]

recipe lists are still there

[quick gorge]

What is this then?

[wind spade]

the subjective misleading "analysis" of recipes

[quick gorge]

I did look at who published it on steam to see if I could @ them... no

[wind spade]

basically the tables that compared them (and assumed like 99% of things that user wasn't aware of)

[pastel obsidian]

better to give information, I hate pure just because of the space that it take

[quick gorge]

Recipe names would've been actually perfect

[pastel obsidian]

just more reason to download it and do it for yourself

[wind spade]

eh, I'd just use my Tool instead for it (and spend time making new Tools)

[quick gorge]

Now with sloops owo?

[pastel obsidian]

haha

[wind spade]

if I can figure them out, maybe

[pastel obsidian]

Just add a slooped variation of each recipe

[wind spade]

that's not the problem, the problem is "I have 6 sloops, where to add them"

[quick gorge]

Trrrueee

[thorn bane]

its a simple integer optimization problem
just get a solver for it /s

the max sink calculation used
"There are tools to deal with these problems, one of these tools is a Google OrTools package with CBC_MIXED_INTEGER_PROGRAMMING backend. "
apparently

then like gill said just add slooped variants but only integer numbers allowed
restrain to #those_recipes < sloops youve got

[wind spade]

those are not really viable for web-based solving

[thorn bane]

ah i see

[wind spade]

but only integer numbers allowed
current solver doesn't support that

(I appreciate y'all trying to help, but I've already spent like a month learning all the math and doing tons of research about possibilities of solvers, so you're most likely not gonna give me any new ideas/information 🙂 )

[quick gorge]

Much love 💚

[opal locust]

All I have is the BWD factory to make to close out Phase 5, but I don't think I have enough power for it.

[crimson moat]

BWD?

[opal locust]

Ballistic Warp Drive

[crimson moat]

first thing i did in p4 was make 180gw

you've got 35?

easy to make a bit more

[opal locust]

Yeah the plan was to make some rocket fuel

Need to get some slugs first because I know I'll need more shards for this.

[crimson moat]

20gw is only 80 gens without oc on a 333/600 gas pipe, not that hard to pipe up

[thorny root]

Power storage is awesome. js.

[opal locust]

hopefully that's enough shards to hit credits.

[quick gorge]

How is your sloop collection?

[opal locust]

all of them, I used my sloops on power augmenters

[quick gorge]

104 to work with is wonderful to hear... 😏

[opal locust]

don't make fun of me or my ten sons ever again

[tropic kindle]

all my buildings calculated

[opaque quartz]

Borrow a sloop to double your shard production from those slugs

[opal locust]

that's what I've been doing

[quick gorge]

Where are the other 4?

[opal locust]

2 in constructor for doubling power shards and quadrupling alien dna

[quick gorge]

The accounting department here at FICSIT is happy with this audit

[bleak wagon]

I wonder if this will be enough for the eventual time to get my nuclear plant online

[white bloom]

• if your solver can provide you duals for the variables, use them for column generation. I.e. instead of adding all slooped recipes straight away, only add them as needed as you go along given the current marginal benefits.
• solve the LP relaxation instead, i.e. with fractional sloops, then do integer splits on variables with fractional solutions. I.e. if the solver suggests running 101.6 of a slooped recipe, try a subproblem with fixed 101 of that recipe and one with fixed 102 machines (appropriately slightly underclocked) of that recipe. When the input amounts are very small and the number of available sloops is large, this would blow up runtime, so set a timeout on the computation. But the vast majority of user queries are bound to have very low branching depth. For example the max points on map solution with all sloops has branching depth 1.
• to prevent the integral split computation from blowing up, you can use best-first-search with a priority queue since at any point, the LP relaxation of the remaining problem gives an informative admissible bound on the final value. At this point it's just A*.

[frosty owl]

If we had "ratio splitters" (splitters capable of setting their output/min), load-balancing would become what you now see as "making a central storage": something to be done purely for the sake of it, for no real advantage as there's plenty of ways to just avoid the issue entirely (do note that load-balancing is a self-imposed issue in the first place, as one can always "just manifold", so long as they are happy with the results; more complicated results requiring more effort is part of the fun

As someone who prefers sushi and how to deal with it, I think adding something like that would take away more than it would add to the game (take away the need to load-balance, just to make already possible things simpler).

Imo, a nice compromise would be something like a Programmable Splitter in whose UI one could set things up in ways similar to existing logistics, so that one should still figure out the logistics but they could make the building aspect simpler and take less space. Eg: imagine if each output of the Splitter could be set to act like a specific balancer, by placing mergers and splitters inside one output's UI to control its behavior (the feature could be easily limited or buffed as needed). IE: NO choice of exact parts per minute that make figuring out load-balancing puzzles useless; YES using existing belt mechanics to obtain complex results in a smaller place (Programmable Splitters' UI)

[cerulean stratus]

Well programmable splitters are kinda late though

But it's also that in the real world you get to say that you want x% going that way

[outer vale]

a game doesn't need basis in the real world

[wind spade]

how are prog splitters late? they just need HMFs and computers

[outer vale]

many things exist that aren't in Satisfactory, doesn't mean they should be added 😛

[frosty owl]

Ah, I forgot the big note: first I'd love for them to fix Programmable Splitters so that they can properly load-balance sushi without limits (which is one of the few advantages Programmable Splitter currently give)

[frosty owl]

I don't see that as an issue. First, one should familiarize themselves with belt mechanics, then they should be offered tools to make more complex logistic systems. Just like Smart Splitters/mergers aren't unlocked together with normal splitters/mergers: one is forced/heavily pushed to first solve things using JUST the basic things, then they can unlock tools to expand on their use

Not to mention, it should be extremely easy to tweak when something is unlocked, if needed

[cerulean stratus]

No I'm saying since these things are late it wouldn't be a big deal if you were to be able to ratio them later

[frosty owl]

What do you mean?

Regardless of when in the game you add it, the moment one has Ratio Splitters, anything related to belt balancing (round-robin considerations, load-balancing shenanigans and all that) could just be thrown in one's mental trash bin as they now have a tool solving all that

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah I want it that way

Btw what's round robin considerations

[frosty owl]

That is a thing good for mods: those who want it can have it, but there's no need to change the game for everyone to cater to that

[wind spade]

^

[frosty owl]

Keeping in mind that mergers and splitters act in a round-robin fashion, which is the core of many load-balancing techniques

[frosty owl]

In other words: changing vanilla in such a way would pretty much trivialize most of what I (and people who share my tastes) like in the game logistics, making them "too easy". That's not something I could "mod away", unlike what anyone who finds logistics too annoying can (assuming there is a "ratio splitter" mod ofc)

[vapid gorge]

Mods

[cerulean stratus]

You're making it sound like logistics is a complicated central challenge in this game.

But most of the time people will just manifold things, or will do say 2 machines for here, 14 for there.

It's not really an integral part of the challenge, it's more like a mild inconvenience

[frosty owl]

It can become a challenge, if one wants more complex results that "system will work at 100% eventually if everything is connected well enough"

[wind spade]

manifold is one solution to the challenge, yeah. But doesn't remove it completely and comes with a disadvantage

[quick gorge]

I need more solutions to that challenge. More ways of doing it the better, working on a (boring) amount of sushi.. this restaurant has 2 whole things on it

Manifold, load balancing, sushi.. what else is there?

[frosty owl]

Tbh, the game tries quite hard not to make anything "central". You always have workarounds:

• Don't like dealing withy fluids? Package them or use alt recipes avoiding them
• Don't like complex production chains for power? Turbo fuel instead of Nuclear
• Don't like how long this factory takes to reach full efficiency? Figure out a load-balancer to replace its manifold...
  Pretty much any objective can be achieved in different ways or even ignored (like nuclear power), all with pros and cons. Nothing is added to make other things completely redundant (even biomass burners have their unique usecases!)

[quick gorge]

How many people will lose their mind at a sushi train wagon? . . .

[frosty owl]

Does Sushi-load-balancing count as its own...?

[quick gorge]

That's more a question of morals at that point.

[cerulean stratus]

Actually I'm quite interested in this one

Like train stations have a filter for some reason

Not the wagons, the whole station

[quick gorge]

If Sushi can be both manifold and balanced thus Sushi is a secondary factor from the primary manifold/balancer.
What else can be a secondary factor, or even a tertiary factor?

[quick gorge]

I have a few idea but I've been trying to build in my live save, not my test save I have been in the last week trying to plan all the everything 💀

[cerulean stratus]

But yeah I think load balanced sushi trains are great

So much possible throughput

[vapid gorge]

Single input sushi load balancing then

[quick gorge]

I want more flavours of this belt pasta!

Imma try sleep some more, with this fresh I might dream up some crazy belt magic

Christ if we had signals akin to factorio I would make printer art before the items on said belt get turned into things.

It's a factory.
Sure it plays the entire bee movie before becoming HMF but it works fine.

[cerulean stratus]

I remember a dude using programmable splitters to load balance sushi for making one belt manifolds, on manufacturers

Don't ask me how

[pastel obsidian]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had the tools to deal with it

[vapid gorge]

platform -> regular buffer -> smart splitter -> specific buffers + sink

it's really simple

[vapid gorge]

makes sense right?

[pastel obsidian]

I think we would need more train outputs and filtered outputs for it to work like that

[tawdry blade]

I could even do it without programmable splitters lol.

[pastel obsidian]

The game really isn't set up for that level of control but maybe with a few years of updates we might get there

[tawdry blade]

Issue with sushi that relies on splitters and mergers is that the rate of supply has to be rock-steady, else the ratio screws up and you will clog your machines after a short time. Doesn't help that even directly attached lifts have internal storage, so superfluous items can never just pass by.

[vapid gorge]

use a prog splitter then yeah, just depends on the number of items you ahve

[vapid gorge]

with a sushi train all that means is you flood the specific post sorted spliters

you'd have a real ass of a time doing something like sushiload balancing from a train output without over flow to sink and losing some though

[pastel obsidian]

Personally it would be nice to have the ability to pick which wagon on a train was unloaded at a train station. Bonus points on if you can choose how many items or stacks get unloaded

Or loaded

[tawdry blade]

Yeah the trains are a bit too dumb tbh

Also, having cargo stations customizable to only accept certain items would help a lot.

[vapid gorge]

well you can with blank platforms.
And once a buffer is full of X item it'll only deliver Y number of stacks

trains are basically big manifolds that way

[vapid gorge]

you... can? afaik you can set what items get picked up or loaded

someone was having just that issue the other day in QnA , where we found out that you have to specifically set a station to settings like that

[tawdry blade]

Alright maybe I remember wrongly, but I think I can only tell a train to deliver / take certain items, not which wagon/cargo station should receive it.
I will just start the game up and check again.

[vapid gorge]

I can't recall exactly myself whether it's platform settings or train settings, was just helping someone else.

but even if it's train that's just more platform/car management

[frosty owl]

The issue/difficulty mainly stems from needing to "keep the sushi flowing". When "the sushi" includes several stations, freight stations (with their huge inventories) and train cars (even more inventory), there's plenty of weeds to get lost into

[pastel obsidian]

You can tell a train to load and unload a certain item but its for the train not the platform

Part of keeping the sushi going is keeping the sushi mixed so it doesn't end up in the overflowing into the sink

[frosty owl]

That is also called Single Input Sushi (SIS).
I'm surprised you came across that, may I know how did that happen and on what platform? ^^

[vapid gorge]

I mentioned it a few min ago 😛

[frosty owl]

If you look at it another way: if a machine fed like that (eg: manufacturer fed by one belt) is working fine, you know that all the machinery leading up to it is working at 100% efficiency

[tawdry blade]

Wait a second, are we talking about sushi that only needs a single splitter / machine or sushi that requires a splitter / input?

[vapid gorge]

a manufacturer that needs 4 items fed with 1 belt

[frosty owl]

Mh... Yes?
There's a few convos going 😆

[frosty owl]

@tawdry blade here I'm referring to a machine fed using a single input instead of many (#sushi-fits-in-the-square-hole)

[tawdry blade]

Im still thinking how to solve such a sushi. Because a stable ratio that happens to be an even number of items would just have the machine take the same 50% from the belt over and over again, till it clogs

[quick gorge]

I've been away, we come up with more belt things I can add to my list of things I need to do? 🙃

[vapid gorge]

I think, and I may be wrong, you feed all the items from the machines onto one belt, overflow to a sink until it's mixed in the rough right ratio, then start feeding to a single machine?

never actually asked Ven

[frosty owl]

What do you mean by "same 50%"?
Doesnt a machine eat up 100% of what is fed to it (assuming free space in inventory ofc)?

[vapid gorge]

well, single input sushi is probably the most convoluted belt feeding

[quick gorge]

I can't have sinks in my design... I will be working with exp's prio mergers that kinda resolves the issue, assuming the input is perfect

[frosty owl]

Do a flip!
Do a single-input-sushi one, next! :D

[quick gorge]

Already got a design to make it look funky

[tawdry blade]

Well a splitter that isn't prioritized will not feed a machine 100% but 50% of a belts content if the stuff can go to at least 2 desitanations.

[frosty owl]

Oh. Well, the simplest scenario for a multi-input machine being fed by one belt doesn't even include splitters (as you first mentioned) ^^

[tawdry blade]

I guess it would be madness to attempt single input sushi without at least smart splitters

[tawdry blade]

Oh, you just wanna feed a single machine?

[frosty owl]

IF you want to split evenly (load-balance) a sushi belt, then you should look into Programmable Splitters as all others lead to pretty random splitting of sushi

[frosty owl]

I'm just trying to describe the simplest scenario for understanding ^^

For example (hoping I grabbed the right picture), this setup needs only mergers, but feeds just one Manufacturer. If I wanted to feed more than one in that, I'd need to split the merged sushi evenly or merge it on 2 separate belts (or connect all machine inputs and manage overflow)
Example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/1298216763456229376/Screenshot20241022-01550400000.png?ex=68021b94&is=6800ca14&hm=78953116c85cf199e6efc005f80e5699cfa316567415a34a7699c0b3e2e789ec&

And yes, this screenshot was taken after the Beacon recipe got phased out, thus the red light on the manufacturer and clogged Sushi

[quick gorge]

anyways, my exp auto connect tests are done
Now to make that single belt input sushi belt design

I love how this is basically on the fence between here and https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659

[amber edge]

bro.... do you not see it?

[quick gorge]

Buddhist symbol for peace?

[amber edge]

okay interpet what you want, just saying... yikes

[quick gorge]

I'm not limiting my usage of shapes and designs just because a really good, efficient one was tainted.

[amber edge]

my man just do lifts from outputs over the manufacturers

[tawdry blade]

Man nothing I love to see more than 600/600 pipes

[tawdry blade]

I thought its a symbol for the sun / good luck

[amber edge]

me as well, wait... what the

[tawdry blade]

You pipes already pop veins

[quick gorge]

Any better?

Like I want the belts on this shelf thing it's got going on, that's the whole reason I routed it like that ;-;

[amber edge]

change those 2 and ur good 🙂

[vapid gorge]

you could use lifts to go up and over and make the path shorter >.>

[amber edge]

thats what i said

really its the shape thats concerning me

[vapid gorge]

that's fair, that shape is thoroughly associated with a horrific atrocity and will likely be so until civilization collapses and history is lost

[amber edge]

yep

[vapid gorge]

there's no reclaiming that one

[amber edge]

"its buddhist!" its same as "its roman salute!"

[vapid gorge]

don't get me started

[amber edge]

myman, where do you think they got those ideas from?

[quick gorge]

I do interprete up and over like this

[vapid gorge]

yup that works 😄

[amber edge]

https://tenor.com/view/well-done-jeremiah-johnson-good-gif-25626389

[quick gorge]

I hate it

[amber edge]

or try my diagram i gave you

[vapid gorge]

mk6 lifts do suck ass

[amber edge]

alternate two of it

so it looks like X instead, but then thats the elon musk, new gen nazi

[quick gorge]

I really want to lay a belt on top of this

[vapid gorge]

could prob use mk5s though

always an option

[amber edge]

see this

[cerulean stratus]

there was a guy on looking for group that wanted to show around his build, and how other people interacted with it

[cerulean stratus]

r/accidentalswastika

[amber edge]

not mine, im trying to unaccidental it

switch two paths other way

[quick gorge]

The entire point of the first one was it was symmetrical

[amber edge]

bam not the "buddhist symbol" anymore

[cerulean stratus]

you're making it on purpose?

[amber edge]

it is still symmetrical

what???

[quick gorge]

but not the 4 way symmetrical

[amber edge]

look again, get glasses ur blind ass

im giving him different shape to change it

[tranquil mortar]

surely if you just rotate them and nudge them a bit it will be a lil less hatecrimey

[quick gorge]

why did he have to ruin a great shape?

[amber edge]

it wasnt great shape anyway

[tawdry blade]

Why would one allow to hijack a symbol indefinitely.

[tranquil mortar]

its definetely worse now tho...

[quick gorge]

I love the shape.
If all those things didn't happen
Fuck this chat is cursed

[tranquil mortar]

you could do what denver airport did and just hope people dont look at it from above?

[quick gorge]

I just wanted my belts to go manufactories

[frosty owl]

I think a simple improvement would be making the pieces of belt going out of the Manufacturers more straight. Atm they have a bit of a weird angle initially

[tawdry blade]

In a very efficient german way

[quick gorge]

Fuck sake

[tawdry blade]

now I killed it didn't I

hehehehe #