math-and-meta

[thorn bane]

nah just add it directly after the extractor

[amber edge]

yeah i alway do that for all extractor

water pumps as well

pump right after extractor then put it on each indicator if needed then keep it very straightforward

[delicate yew]

what should I do if one of the pipes is two 120 for a combined 240

[amber edge]

as long its not over 300 its fine

[thorn bane]

2 pumps
1 after each extractor

[amber edge]

I would raise extractors to 300 each for bit to flood everything quickly then turn them down to 240 and leave it

[delicate yew]

ok I think it was a headlift issue

pipes dont seem to be emptying out now

thank you all for the help

[white bloom]

sounds like there is opportunity to make more use of nitrogen in your production plan then 😉
Non-fissile Uranium, Heat-Fused Frame, Cooling Device, Nitro Rocket Fuel, Rocket Fuel, Turbo Pressure Motor are all great.
Yes, in your given situation with 3k excess unused lying around, short to medium term the Quartz Purification route is going to be great, since yes it does give you more Silica + Crystals per Quartz. Long term you might find yourself breaking all that down again though to re-prioritize the Nitrogen and then build Pure Crystals + Cheap Silica anyways.
So I suppose this mostly depends on your planning horizon.

[amber edge]

I already have 2400 rocket fuel production going, the 2k usage goes to the most of list you listed, all left to do for phase 4 is beefing my aluminum plant which is introducing in silica after sloppy and electrode aluminum recipe, then start on the rocket parts factory i have planned to be 5/5/2 pm and do nuclear pasta after that

[white bloom]

have you considered Turbo Diamonds? 2 Coal + 0.67 Turbofuel per Diamond seems way cheaper than 3 Quartz Crystal.

[amber edge]

i dont have turbofuel being produced but it just makes more sense to use up that 935pm quartz crystal byproduct with coal sitting around in the red woods since im using coke coal

im doing nitro blender rocket fuel recipe for the 2400pm which is fed into 230 fully overclocked fuel gens

[naive ingot]

Man, I just realized how much of a trap the Dark Ion Fuel alt recipe is...

[opaque quartz]

Build the refineries right next to the oil extractors, move the finished products long distance instead

Woah scrollback, sorry

[naive ingot]

Does Rocket Fuel actually pack into canisters at 2m^3 per 1 full canister or is that a mistake on the Satisfactory Calculator site?

[opaque quartz]

Depends. The default recipe is good for sinking synthetic shards as they can’t be sunk directly. The alt is good for soaking up excess dark matter crystals

[opaque quartz]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Packaged_Rocket_Fuel

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, that's one where I struggle to come up with a situation where I'd use it. If I want to get rid of crystals, I'll just sink 'em. And if I've got the spare rocket fuel already I'd rather burn it than turn it into Ionized

[opaque quartz]

Rocket fuel compresses 2:1

[dusky dust]

The compression from having to package the rocket fuel just isn't worth it on that one

[opaque quartz]

Nitrogen compresses 4:1

[naive ingot]

But the alt makes 12 packaged Rocket Fuel into 10m^3 of Ionized fuel.

So that's 24 Rocket Fuel to 10 Ionized... and Ionized Fuel is less than double the energy per unit compared to Rocket Fuel.

[opaque quartz]

Oh yeah, forgot that the dark ion alt eats the tanks too

Ionized fuel is not great for power production in general. It is good for jetpack and drones, however

[naive ingot]

Even if it didn't, Ion Fuel doesn't compress when packaged.

[thorn bane]

why not just sink the crystals?

[opaque quartz]

You can do that too

Just depends if you want to do something “more useful” with extra dark matter crystals

[thorn bane]

ye true

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I suppose as a production line for your jetpack/vehicle-fuel needs, Dark Ion might be good, if you've already got the spare crystals

I was thinking whenever I do my next playthrough I'd probably go all-in on Dark Matter Trap, so I'd presumably have plenty without much of a use for

[thorn bane]

isnt power shards the first thing you make out of crystals anyway

[opaque quartz]

Not necessarily. Synthetic power shards are completely optional (and require MAM unlock). But DMCs are a required ingredient for phase 5 elevator parts

[thorn bane]

oh and you use turbo diamonds and the the compacted coal from ionized fuel
full circle

[thorn bane]

idk it was the first thing i did when getting to tier 9
i worried about the space elevator parts later

[opaque quartz]

In my current (second) playthrough, I haven’t done synthetic shards at all. I still have 900 in depot/storage just from sloop’d slugs

I’ll probably go build a shard factory for funsies again like I did the first time around

[dusky dust]

Could do; I didn't do them until post-game 'cause I had plenty from slugs alone

But yeah, I can see them being a priority

[thorn bane]

the 100 power shards to unlock was kinda a lot for me xd

[amber edge]

some purple slugs with slooped constructor makes that easy

[naive ingot]

You know, now that I look at it, the Dark Ion Fuel recipe processes like 5x the fuel per Converter compared to the base recipe and doesn't require a Quantum Encoder anywhere in the production... the whole point of it might to be Slooped.

[versed violet]

Dumb question: Space elevator will never get updated with 6 more inputs so we can dedicate each input for each project part?

[naive ingot]

Probably never.

[vapid gorge]

remove the buffers

[versed violet]

The question is totally not prompted by me forgetting to set a strainer under the belt and the parts have been going into sink.

[digital flare]

Has anyone used converters to make more than 100 fully overclocked nuclear power plants?

[vapid gorge]

probably. There's always a weirdo or two trying to find 'the maximum converter uranium set up'

[digital flare]

I did some quick math and, leaving 300 Bauxite for plutonium, and somerslooping all the converters, you could get a total of 8100 Uranium

[digital flare]

Oh

I guess I'm that weirdo then

[vapid gorge]

and considering you can do 252 w/o conversion that's not much of a thing

well not fully overclocked

but you can do 101 basically fully overclocked no conversion

[digital flare]

B-b-but... 2 million MW...

[vapid gorge]

well with no conversion you can do 50.4 rods.

that's basically 101 fully OCed npps already

[digital flare]

Yea but I did the math and I could get 388~ fully overclocked

[vapid gorge]

ok then?

[vapid gorge]

also your math is wrong

it's 512

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=JMnf8tDkcxiweMJoUcot

[vapid gorge]

probably more since this doesn't include slooping

[digital flare]

It only sloops the uranium converters

[vapid gorge]

but duping mechanics are basically just creative mode imo

[vapid gorge]

this doesn't do that either

[digital flare]

But got that by going
(8100/62.5)*3

[vapid gorge]

but that plan uses several world limits

[vapid gorge]

I don't know what to tell you. Did you click the link?

[digital flare]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

then you'd see that putting sloops on just the uranium conversion doesn't help since you are at the limit for a bunch of other resources too

simplest thing to do would be to just sloop teh rod machines

a few of them anyway

[digital flare]

Hm

I should check my math on the others

[opal locust]

How many generators do you need if you're pulling 2400 Rocket Fuel off of a 600 oil node?

all the other fuels have nice even numbers for easy math, but Rocket Fuel just has to be different.

[fallow siren]

clock the gen to 240% so the intake is 10/min

that way u can nicely build 240 gens

[opal locust]

won't you run into a rounding issue eventually? or is that decimal so small that Satisfactory's internal math ignores it?

[fallow siren]

barely noticeable

[thorn bane]

2400/4.1667=576
so 576 generators

[opal locust]

and 576/2.4 is 240 generators

so I'm guessing you break it down further to 4 sets of 60 generators

That's still a lot of space needed.

[thorn bane]

i mean youre making 144GW
whatd you expect

[rigid pewter]

am i gonna have pipe problems if i overclock nuclear plants to max so they need 600 water each ?

[fallow siren]

what problem? 600 water is one mk2 pipe

[thorn bane]

no its fine if dont have too long manifolds
so dont underclock the water extractors i guess xD

[rigid pewter]

i dont know i just always had problems with pipes im scared t try it

[amber umbra]

Ahem, 600 fluid/minute pipe “feature” says otherwise. In this case it’s not really an issue as the manifold required is very simple.

[fallow siren]

its just one input of 600, you wont get pipes problem

[thorn bane]

merging 300 with 300 to 600 is perfectly fine
its only if you split 570 and 30 that you get probelms

[fallow siren]

most people had the problem when they are doing 600/min pipe on long manifold system

but this is just one input of 600

for npp

[rigid pewter]

yes 2 fully over clocked water extractors straight to 1 fully overclocked nuclear plant

[thorn bane]

ye thats fine

[rigid pewter]

ok thanks everyone

[amber umbra]

The pipe bug generally drops throughout from 600 to like 595, so technically it’s not a big deal even if it happens depending on how you set it up.

[thorn bane]

i can be as bad as 500
most times when people complain its 550

[amber umbra]

I’m just giving numbers from the extensive testing I did previously.

500 sounds not possible via the same mechanism

[rigid pewter]

i had a turbofuel plant that needs 560Tfuel per min and it still dosent work properly

[thorn bane]

make a 600/min turbofuel plant from a single line in single manifold (T junction not X)
its gets pretty bad

[amber umbra]

Hmmm I guess the worst worst case I could see it then.

[rigid pewter]

im turning all the uranium in map to fuelrods with the second recipe it need 37.8k water per min

[thorn bane]

build it over the ocean and its fine

[rigid pewter]

im builing a the needed materials in dune desert and i think will transport the rods to the ocean in rockey desert i dont know what am i gona transfer it with ive never used drones i think that might be the correct way

its 31.5 rods per min

[fallow siren]

all uranium in the map? you will get 50.4/min

thats 630GW from just burning the uranium rod alone

[rigid pewter]

i thought about it i dont have enouhg sam in map to to turn it into ficsonium

[fallow siren]

sloop the sam

loop back the dark matter residue into dark crystal production

cutting the sam cost

use alts to use less sam as much as possible

[rigid pewter]

i didnt know that was possible im still in phase 4

[fallow siren]

im talking about ficsonium

[rigid pewter]

i might have so stop the planning untill i reach phase 5 then

[thorn bane]

is there a planner that does sloops
greeny is slacking

[quick gorge]

cough

Oh no, I've dropped my slooped SAM

[opal locust]

1 part left to go to finish Phase 4, I guess I just wait until then.

[opaque quartz]

Rocket fuel is a gas so you can build vertical pretty easily and not worry about headlift

[thorn bane]

wait what

[opaque quartz]

my current save RF plant is three floors with 20 gens @ 240% on each floor

[thorn bane]

WAIT ITS A GAS?

[opaque quartz]

Yes

[quick gorge]

Correct :)

[pastel obsidian]

You should be able to do it if you minimize the of plutonium you produce

[fallow siren]

my rocket plant, 20 floors of gens 🙃

[quick gorge]

Seeing that rocket fuel fly high 🫡

[fallow siren]

its a gas, no need to worry about headlift

[thorn bane]

welp never stop learning i guess

[opal locust]

So you only need to build the initial refineries and blenders near the surface?

[fallow siren]

both rocket and ionized are gas

excited photon matters and dark matter residue tho, no one knows what they are but they behave like a gas

[quick gorge]

They are """gases"""

[thorn bane]

am i crazy or is rocket fuel not actually a gas in real life?

[opaque quartz]

You can do that, yeah. I have ground level doing all the production and then the floors above hold all the generators

[thorn trail]

hydrogen is a common rocket fuel, stored in liquid form for space reasons

[amber edge]

its as x4077 said rocket fuel is form of gas in liquid form, as it compresses gas so much similarily to nitrogen, they could be hydrogen or kerosene for some, they are always mixed with liquid oxygen as well to make it combustile as gas form, so they are stored as liquid form then turns into gas to be combusted, then there is genre of solid rocket fuel as well, so you can say there is three forms of rocket fuel

[opal locust]

so breaking this down into sets of 4, with shards, it's simply 2 refineries into 2 blenders + 2 water extractors into 2 more blenders and that pipe of 600 rocket fuel goes into 60 generators wherever

That's...way too simple for that much power.

[vapid gorge]

you're just used to over thinking things

[amber edge]

thats same as my set up, you will get like 140GW out of it

[tame harbor]

Seaking of power, I haven't got blenders yet so I was about to setup a Diluted packaged fuel plant to turn 600 crude into electricity

But I eventually just went "fuckit" and went with a basic residual fuel plant. Still got me 6.666 GW so whatevs

[restive sparrow]

You can unlock turbo fuel prior to phase 3, so perhaps look into that.

[tame harbor]

I am aware I just couldn't be arsed

[restive sparrow]

Fair enough. It's a lot more energy, for whatever that's worth to you.

[tame harbor]

I am well aware, but I know I wouldn't need that much more power before I got to Blenders and I wanted to hunt for artifacts and hard drives while phase 3 was being done so I focused on those instead

[rigid pewter]

is there a better way to optimize this this even more ? i think quartz and quickwire is the easiest way i can build it

[pastel obsidian]

What are you trying to optimize

[restive sparrow]

Ugh. Satisfactory Modeler diagrams are much more tiresome to read.

[rigid pewter]

my time building this

[opal locust]

162 hours into this save, and I am done with Phase 4

[restive sparrow]

Grats

I'm 244 in and I only just made my first train lol

[rigid pewter]

i want to build it with the least resources possible

[restive sparrow]

I've spent like 20-40 hours exploring and shooting things though

Oh and I keep forgetting I basically AFK all of the time. Dinner time? Fuck it I'll AFK for the coupons. Groceries? Why not AFK? lol

Bed time and work time are basically the only times I'm logged out

[opal locust]

Okay that's pretty funny

[fierce prawn]

yeah! It’s an AMAZING “ugggh i dont wanna do nuclear yettttt” stopgap solution, hundreds of gigawatts from one oil patch!

[bleak wagon]

threw this together in like an hour cause I needed plastic/rubber
200 plastic/min
200 rubber/min
by products are 40 packaged fuel (only cause i need it for my jetpack) and like 1200 MW of power

[pastel obsidian]

Nice

What foundation are you using

[opaque quartz]

This is why people talk about rocket power being OP or whatever. Plus you have a bunch of compacted coal byproduct that you could use to make even more power if you want to to go full sicko mode (I use it for black powder / smokeless powder to make munitions)

Edit: derp, replied to wrong message

[opaque quartz]

Crushing it, nice work. IMHO phase 5 is relatively easy by comparison

[civic bronze]

Dang, you got called for overthinking, while it took me 400h to finish phase 4

Well i afked 3-4 nights, anyway congrats 🙂

[sonic gull]

For Transporting liquids via rail, do other people just have a line making canisters always, then package the liquid, transport it, then unpack at the destination and sink the empty canisters or do other people dedicate a cart to just always reusing the canisters in a loop?

[vapid gorge]

Just make a buffer of empties and loop them back

No need to have continuous canisters being made

[opal locust]

Which Ficsite Ingot recipe is recommended? Iron seems the easiest, but requires the most ingots to convert.

[vapid gorge]

like all alts, whatever is most convenient to your situation

got a bunch of aluminium spare? why not use that

[civic bronze]

Hey its not neccesary but i think it would be considerate to put spoiler on late game recipes like this

[vapid gorge]

shit ton of iron nearby ? that's a good option

[thorny root]

So... my refinery will end up using 26,600 m^3 per minute of water... to make 11.2k rubber and 11.2k plastic. That's 22.1666 mk6 belts of packaged water. And that's without any fuel export.

[opal locust]

My first Phase 5 build done, 1200 oil into 120 Time Crystals/Minute

I uhh, may need to work on that Rocket Fuel power plant sooner than I thought

I went with the oil alt because I still had oil leftover in the western islands

I retired my original rubber/plastic plant and used that space along with the 2 normal nodes + the oil well for the 1200 oil

[vapid gorge]

@fierce ruin well look at the diagram

bottom right is sloppy electrode

[fierce ruin]

ah

nice

[vapid gorge]

fresh water is 1 machine at 90%
waste is 210% clocking

so 90/300 = % runs on fresh

[fierce ruin]

so I need a refinery clocked at 10%?

[vapid gorge]

210/300 = % runs on waste

no, this is just a diagram about ratios.

it can serve for any volume of bauxite

[fierce ruin]

ah

do I need to do a loopback pipe for the manifold?

[vapid gorge]

for example, how much bauxite do you want to process right now?

[fierce ruin]

1200

[vapid gorge]

so (90/300)*1200= ?

[fierce ruin]

got 2 pure veins of it atop the arch near islands

[fierce ruin]

that's 0.3 * 1200 = 360?

[vapid gorge]

sounds about right. so the rest runs on waste

from memory it might be simpler to split it into 2x 600 lines though

[fierce ruin]

might be

[fierce ruin]

still got a question though @vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

well you need a loop like the diagram

the waste water goes back to feed the solution machines

[fierce ruin]

i meant a loopback pipe

for the manifold

[vapid gorge]

the diagram is very explicit

oh as in looping the manifold? no you generally don'

for example this was for 780 bauxite. Overclocked a fair bit and you basically never need a looped manifold for 2 machines

[fierce ruin]

I mean this

[vapid gorge]

yup yup and you don't

[fierce ruin]

wrong screenshot sry, copy and paste acting up

[fierce ruin]

I can just do a normal manifold?

[fierce ruin]

so... when do I need a loopback pipe?

[vapid gorge]

keep it to 600 bauxite chunks though

[vapid gorge]

almost everywhere else

[fierce ruin]

I'd assume when it's liquids and the pipe is completely full?

gases don't need them right?

[vapid gorge]

gasses often do
fresh water and oil generally doesn't

[fierce ruin]

I mean... I did build loopback pipes for fuel generators that run on rocket fuel

[vapid gorge]

in the first step

but no manifold loop here and it works perfect

[fierce ruin]

so... if it comes from a machine I loop

if it's fresh off an extractor it should be fine

[vapid gorge]

yes

except for waste water like this

[fierce ruin]

how about freshly extracted nitrogen?

[vapid gorge]

often not.
these are loose rules though

[fierce ruin]

so... I should add them unless I know explicitly that they are unnecessary

[vapid gorge]

for example if you were feeding HOR to like 3 machines? you could set it up so there's only 1 junction and you likely don't need al oop

[vapid gorge]

if you don't want to have to think about it too much? sure. They never hurt

[fierce ruin]

what about pipe balancers?

[vapid gorge]

no such thing realisitically

[fierce ruin]

as in, say I need to feed 6 machines

I split it into 2 and split each output into 3

[vapid gorge]

if it's just a manifold? prob need a loop

[vapid gorge]

is it possible to do this? sure. But it'll be delicate

[fierce ruin]

so manifolds are still better in this case

so... unless it's this situation, i should loop

well that's good to know

[vapid gorge]

for example this is apparently a load balanced pipe system

but yo uahve to set it up exactly like this essentially. Which isn't really something yo ucan work into most factories

[fierce ruin]

cuz lengths?

[vapid gorge]

same lengths , no height changes ect ect

[fierce ruin]

also also, should I place valves onto manifold outputs?

[vapid gorge]

something else that will help you? keep fluid manifolds into smaller sections than 600 unless you either really need to, or are confident in making neat and tidy systems

[vapid gorge]

no

no valves or buffers

[fierce ruin]

so fluids that flow into machines stay in the machine right?

also, I wanna know, why does pipe flow rates fluctuate that much

is it a code issue or is it actually realistic

[vapid gorge]

yes

[vapid gorge]

realistic to the way they behave

basically it comes down to two main things

fluids are bidirectional.
liquids have gravity priority

from that you basically see all the other behaviours

[fierce ruin]

backflow too?

[vapid gorge]

yup

if you have a fluid manifold and a machine sucks the fluid out of the centre, that creates a gap right?

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

so the fluid ahead can see the gap and go 'that's more empty than ahead of me, I'll go backwards'

[fierce ruin]

ah

[vapid gorge]

manifold loops also only work to a certain degree. There are edge cases I've seen where they just can't stabalise a system enough

[fierce ruin]

so fluids always flow from the place of higher pressure to the place of lower pressure

[vapid gorge]

I guess you can call it pressure? they want to go to the most empty spot

[fierce ruin]

and the higher the fluid level, the higher the pressure

[vapid gorge]

or downwards

[fierce ruin]

so that explains this?

I didn't understand the bit about "fluid has a desire to move"

[vapid gorge]

not quite, this just shows how fluid can knock fluid behind a valve backwards

[fierce ruin]

like, I don't get how in the third panel, the pipe is completely full, but on the last panel the fluid has a gap?

I suppose that part's like, taken by a different machine?

[vapid gorge]

because some of the fluid is flowing into the next section

[fierce ruin]

ah

okay that makes sense

[vapid gorge]

at least that's how I read it

[fierce ruin]

if 1 loopback won't do, can 2 loopback pipes do the job?

[vapid gorge]

unlikely.

the only time I've seen it though is when someone has had like 15 refineries on one side of a long manifold

if they'd had it so they had refineries on each side using teh same junctions it probably would have been fine

[unkempt oar]

do you know why loopback works ? Because in one straight manifold fluid has a direct "left to right" flow whereas in the loopback the 2 flow from both end "collide" in the middle don't they ?

so that seems counter intuitive to me

[vapid gorge]

it's essentially just another path given to overcome back flow

combine that with flooding a system and having the loop split into two lane it's usually enough to stabalise a manfold unless there's other weird things happening

[unkempt oar]

Can we interpret it as splitting it in two "300m^3/s" pipes, so that the extra capacity in each allow it the balance the irregularity of pipes ?

[vapid gorge]

probably part of it, but it's also the fluid coming in the othe way

and you do want to flood the system first

remember though, the shorter the manifold, the more inherently stable it is

[fierce ruin]

so I should chop up manifolds if they get too long

[vapid gorge]

well you'll always have an easier time with say 300 manifolds than 600

[unkempt oar]

what about feeding from the middle of the manifold instead of one end, how does that goes ?

[vapid gorge]

with 600 lines you have to be quite careful

with shorter lines you have more leeway

so it depends how how you want to spend your time

for example I'm pretty confident in my piping , am willing to put in the extra effort into my designs to make 600 pipes work pretty reliably.
even bottom feeding systems (which I don't recommend)

[opal locust]

This spot feels like it was made for Ficsite Trigons

[prisma kraken]

seems short on limestone

i.e. for all that iron, you'd need 2880/min limestone

[vapid gorge]

considering you can use the sam to convert other resources as well, most any spot with sam is probably ok for trigons

[prisma kraken]

that basic iron ingot recipe is almost really good... if it took 6 instead of 8 limestone per cycle it would be a lot less unseemly to use

[bleak wagon]

Asphalt, i like the way it looks the most out of all the foundations

[deft lichen]

out of the loop, is it actually worth it to use SAM for conversions?

[fallow siren]

if u have spare, sure

[deft lichen]

that'd mean a whole spare node nearby, because I wouldn't produce more than what I'd knowingly intend to use

I mean I'd probably rather run a really long train line instead of doing conversions because that means more trains 😛

[fallow siren]

its just, singularity cell eats up a lot of sam

[vapid gorge]

yeah depends on what you're planning later.

honestly I wouldn't but some people like effectively duping things

[oblique hollow]

comparable, in the middle you are also likely to have spare capacity on each side of the split as the junction has at least 2 high throughout outputs there

[tawdry blade]

Valves have only one use as far as I can tell, and that is to make fluids that once passed a section stay in that section. You can eliminate certain points where gravity would usually lead to backflow when the pipes contents deplete, but in an ideal system the supply pipes .. supply should never be exceeded by the demand pipe demand. Best practice is to make gravity for you, not against you tho. Feeding from top, extracting from bottom, and, basically anything that makes the fluid go where it should instead of giving it even the chance to do otherwise.

[fierce ruin]

so... if fluid has a chance to go somewhere, it will

whether I like it or not

[tawdry blade]

Yes, fluid tries to settle for the lowest potential energy.

So, flows down.

[fierce ruin]

ah

[tawdry blade]

same as rocks.

Just less flow-ey

[fierce ruin]

so... a overflow gate (a literal one apparently because it exploits head lift) is perfectly contained

until the bottom backs up

[tawdry blade]

Unless you somehow manage to have any producer on the other side of it, yea^^

[fierce ruin]

and then it will flow through the other exit

hmm... bad mechanic idea: the siphon effect

overflow gates not stonks

[tawdry blade]

Syphon effect still requires head-lift

[fierce ruin]

as in, after an overflow gate's overflow is full

it sucks all the liquids out*

*asterisk being that the end position of the siphon is below (also the highest point is less than 10m ig)

[tawdry blade]

if an overflow can be syphoned its not the lowest point so... you are building a buffer that allows for flow on demand?

xD

[fierce ruin]

no, i meant that an overflow gate with siphon effect, upon having its top pipe filled, will just pull all the liquid out

[oblique hollow]

If youre asking if this will work: no

[fierce ruin]

I just meant hypothetically if there is a siphon effect

[oblique hollow]

The game only has one kind of pressure: head lift.
It only pushes stuff up.

No vacuum and no suction

[fierce ruin]

ah

well technically suction doesn't exist... it's more of head lift from the atmosphere but fair enough

[oblique hollow]

the pipes are sealed off and contain no air

[tame harbor]

Yeah buildings just passively "wait" for fluids to enter

Nitrogen Gas, Rocket Fuel, Ionized Fuel, Excited Photonic Matter, and Dark Matter Residue are considered "gases" and lack head lift

[vapid gorge]

@candid idol block signals here

very awkward layout and short routes though

[candid idol]

it dont work

does it matter what side the things go on

[magic dock]

Yes, (don't mean this in a mean way) I take it you don't approach a traffic light from the back either?

[candid idol]

there lights on both sides

[magic dock]

Yeah but only one side has 2 lights

Thats the front

[candid idol]

dont got to be rude bro can you just explain what i have to do to fix it

[amber umbra]

For trains it’s much easier to learn by following a guide, implement what they show you. There’s only a few ways to do trains properly.

[candid idol]

thanks bro no ones helping me

[amber edge]

do this layout

so trains can come and go in any stations instead get stuck by some train being docked

like this as well if want longer cars

you designed your tracks to be single track, are you planning to only have one train going? with few stations i doubt it, you would want to do two tracks so you can expand anywhere and add as much trains as it allows

see how i spilt off main tracks to stations at factory, from multipde stations to single station

[candid idol]

ima just try to work it out my self

i just wanna go to bed got a 12 hour shift a work tomorrow iv been at this for like 6 hours

[amber edge]

complains nobody helping then I tries to help and says "nah imma do it myself" alright sounds reasonable, as long you have fun then go for it

[dawn lark]

This should work as a priority input for aluminum right? The foundation shows it's well under the innate 10m headlift from the refinery, and left pipe would be the input from extractors

[dusky dust]

Not exactly; your reverse-u-bend thing needs to be at least 2 parts, otherwise it could flow more than you expect

The most foolproof way of doing it is to have totally-separate machines using fresh vs. recycled water, btw

eg: this from a small vanilla-recipe aluminum setup. Right two Alumina Solution refineries getting fresh water, left one using recycled. Underclock as necessary to make all the numbers line up

You can mix fresh+recycled and have a reliable system, but it can take a lot of tweaking and monitoring to feel comfortable with it; nowadays I just separate 'em out

[dawn lark]

Yeah I'm specifically trying to avoid changing clock speeds since the exsiting ratios already work so well from the bauxite to solution standpoint

[dusky dust]

My prediction is that you'll find debugging liquid issues far more problematic than changing clock speeds. :D

Though as I say, you can totally get mixed fresh+recycled working properly; I used to do it all the time

[dawn lark]

Oh wait I think I;m seeing it

It still does line up

[dusky dust]

Anyway, for that reverse-U-bend "overflow" thing, as I say, you'd need to make sure it's in at least two parts, otherwise more liquid can flow over it than you expect

[dawn lark]

Yeah I could add another valve, and will def be underclocking the extractors

[wind spade]

heavily recommended to NOT do valves

[dusky dust]

Could also look into a "VIP Junction" from the pipeline manual (https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf)

[dawn lark]

But yeah I see it now, the underclock still does work

Yeah I was working with the manual already and trying to implement the conept in as small as a footprint as I could

But yeah if I underclock all 3 it comes out the same, works for me

[wind spade]

remove the valve though 😛

[dawn lark]

If this is put in a black box, the stuff in and out would be the same, the box will be slightly bigger

[quick gorge]

Green is a fan 😏

[dawn lark]

oh yeah I know very well that valves are asking for pain and yet i try them anyway

[dawn lark]

What's

"Nothing, we're not making HL3, stop asking"

[quick gorge]

Srsly tho is there any use for values? . . .

[wind spade]

not a big fan, but epic is fine tbh, and I hope they will get better

[wind spade]

yeah, as a noob trap

[dawn lark]

Well I;d imagine the intent is to prevent backflow without needing to have the space or power consumption of a pump

Especially seeing as how an unpowered pump resets headlift too

[wind spade]

why do you want to prevent backflow? backflow can happen in any pipe segment

[dawn lark]

Well, assuming valves worked like we'd expect them to, minimize sloshing I'd think, but now I need to refer to the pdf again

[wind spade]

yeah but that's not how they work 😄

[dawn lark]

yeah... if they did

[wind spade]

see

[quick gorge]

Imagine if things just worked?
Wouldn't be this game now would it? :3

[dawn lark]

yeah I had that exact page in my head and had to scroll back to it

I've been over the whole guide probbaly a dozen times, but all months apart from each other and constantly have to keep relearning it lol

[wind spade]

one of several reasons to not use valves
instead loop the pipe, then any sloshing is fine because both directions are correct

[dawn lark]

I mean, everything besides fluids, yeah lol

Okay... that and vehicle logistics

[quick gorge]

I love this game's jank

[dawn lark]

I keep trying to find excuses to have a fleet of sugar cubes

Just for the fact we call them sugar cubes

Something so adorable needs to be loved

[serene crescent]

i have 180 iron per min (6 impure mk1), what is the best thing i cna do for reinforced iron plate, modualr frame and rotors

i am finding it difficutl to fully utilise the 180 iron per minute

[dusky dust]

Don't bother trying to max out a node like that

[serene crescent]

im playing around on here but cnat fully get it to work, any advice

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_IronPlateReinforced_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_ModularFrame_C"%3A"2"%2C"Desc_Rotor_C"%3A"3"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_OreIron_C"%3A"180"}}

[dusky dust]

Instead, work backwards: how many RIPs do you want to make? How many Modular Frames? Make that much, and if you have some left over in your node, so be it

There are far more resources on the map than most people realize, especially for Iron

You have to really try hard, if you want to exhaust the map's resources, often to PC-melting extremes

[oblique hollow]

Work backwards, that way you can find out how much x/min of a product needs

and then you can know how much you can scale it up

If like 5/min rotors needs 90m/min iron and you have 180, you COULD make that setup twice as big

Do this for every product and then you can just decide how much of something you want

[serene crescent]

the best i have is something like this, i am chaning the values for eahc of the items i wnat

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_IronPlateReinforced_C"%3A"7"%2C"Desc_ModularFrame_C"%3A"2"%2C"Desc_Rotor_C"%3A"4"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_OreIron_C"%3A"180"}}

[dusky dust]

I'd recommend doing a separate production chain for each item; don't try to combine 'em

(Also, I usually recommend https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production over satisfactory-calculator; IMO it's much nicer to work with for production planning)

(When I say to do them "separately," you could still have them being produced on the same site, and even using the same nodes! I just mean separate out the production lines so that they're independent. Will make your production graphs nicer, and make your factory buildouts easier, too)

[quick gorge]

Satis modeler is pretty good, doesn't automatically gen recipe changes but at some scale having "folders" of factories to denote outposts

[serene crescent]

what do you mean by "separate out the productions lines so that they're independent"

[dusky dust]

Like have a graph that makes your RIPs. Then a separate graph which makes Modular Frames, etc. And have each factory line totally independent from each other

Rather than mashing them all together

Can still produce everything on the same site (either right next to each other, or maybe on different floors of a factory, etc), but that way each product is its own production line. Will generally keep your factories much more straightforward

At this early stage of the game it's not that bad to have a few products all in the same graph, of course, but it'll get more and more complex, and your factories will be at higher risk of spaghettification. :)

[quick gorge]

At certain scales that is easier said than done
looks at my plan for 112 Ficsonium Fuel Rod

[serene crescent]

ok, thank you very much for your help

[dawn lark]

oh no, non-whitelisted link

[opal locust]

Wait a minute, is Phase 5 just "Add Time Crystals and/or Ficsite Trigons to previous item"?

[dawn lark]

factoriolab(.)github(.)io

It has several games to pick from

besides just factorio

[dusky dust]

Phase 5's generally seen as easier than Phase 4, at least. :) You get some fun little feedback loops and stuff, and some neat machines, but CSS felt it was better to step back a little bit and let you enjoy the endgame. :)

[dawn lark]

factoriolab(.)github(.)io

This is just an example, like you can also set the rotors to "2 machines worth" the frames to "1 machine worth" and then maximize RIPs with what's left

[oblique hollow]

Many options for planning factories

[restive sparrow]

I've recently setup my first rail system. I have a 3 freight car train running with 3 mk.4 belts of bauxite coming into it (each going into an industrial container which feeds 2 belts into the platform). I've set up the train to only leave the station when it is fully loaded/unloaded. I'm finding I'm getting ~300 parts/minute out of it on each freight deck. I would have thought I could match up to a single mk4 belt.

I understand that train travel time will cut into efficiency, but I would have thought that with 1 belt into a buffer and 2 belts out of it that the train's travel time would wash out, from it's ability to load/unload twice as fast as the input/output. I didn't think additional cars would have to get involved to make full use of a single mk4 belt...I feel I must be missing something.

[amber edge]

It will never be fully 2x as there is loading and un,loading which blocks loading speed

buffer doesnt 2x ur output as bottom is prioritized, only if below 2x speed and it can make up by pushing out loading time but it will never fully 2x

[oblique hollow]

Depends on your travel time. If you know it we could make judgement on that.

But generally, a single car can at best support 1.5x of a belt if you use both connections and buffers

[amber edge]

just add one more car and split your output into both buffers and it will make up for unloading and loading time

[restive sparrow]

Right...my point here is that I"m getting 300ppm out of a 480 belt. I'm not even getting one belt's worth.

I should not need more than one car for one belt.

[amber edge]

because its 2x of ur mk belt, if you use single then it will not 1x

[oblique hollow]

Then your travel time might be cutting into that

[restive sparrow]

I have one belt coming into the container and 2 belts out

[amber edge]

then its travel time, add one more train

or add more cars to make up for it

[oblique hollow]

If youtlr travel time is too long, you will get less.

Also, i hope your 300/min number doesnt come from the station's menu

[opaque quartz]

Is that incoming belt maxed out?

[restive sparrow]

Or were you implying I need to bring 2 belts into the container?

[restive sparrow]

It does...where else would I be getting it?

[amber edge]

no

[opaque quartz]

Eg you are mining at 480/min?

[amber edge]

one belt in two belt outnto station, so it makes up for unloading and loading times

[oblique hollow]

That number is not reliable enough from what i remember

It takes some rounds

The other option you have is just watching the belt that comes out of the container

[restive sparrow]

I'm mining a hell of a lot faster than that, but belts are only carrying out 480

[oblique hollow]

If the mk 4 belt stays full, you get 480

[restive sparrow]

I am setting up for mk5 belts, and only using mk4 belts for the moment cause I'm still building my aluminum plant

[restive sparrow]

Ok, so I should be able to ignore what the platform tells me as long as my belts stay on

[amber edge]

for train, use highest belt as you can

[oblique hollow]

Yeah. never trust a single number, double check

[amber edge]

even if its just 48pm, use mk5 so you can single belt into it and make up for cut throughput

only use buffer and increase cars if ur going into max of belt usage

your current mk belt*

[restive sparrow]

My only issue with the double check is that I don't have inf time to know that the system has stabilized

[opaque quartz]

IIRC it will take a few round trips for the station numbers to be somewhat accurate. It’s a moving average

If the belt coming out of the platform on the other side is full, then you are fine regardless of what the station numbers say

[restive sparrow]

Yeah I waited like an hour before even checking it

[oblique hollow]

None of us do, but you have the means to check if the container runs dry or if machines stall

It at best takes a few minutes to do a single check and thats better than no additional check

[amber edge]

watch your input train station, if it filled up fully before train does the loop, its not optimized

[restive sparrow]

I'm currently extrcting on the offload platform with a single belt per platform into a sink

[opaque quartz]

Is that belt full when it unloads?

[amber edge]

you want it to not be filled to full, so that will begin to cutting throughput

[restive sparrow]

I'll have to double check that

[restive sparrow]

of course. Right now that's far from the truth. The mk4 belts take waaay longer to fill the platform than the round trip.

[amber edge]

then travel time shouldnt cut it

[restive sparrow]

That's why I was a little confused about the throughput notmatching.

I'm guessing throughput does match but I put too much faith in what the platform number was telling me.

[amber umbra]

What’s your schedule condition for the station? I’m remembering needing to use “full/empty OR 10,000 s”. Are you also using a similar setting?

[amber edge]

cuz how it works is how much it fills up before train does the loop, thats the throughput, as longits not full, the time to fill is same as how much pm it gives

[restive sparrow]

full/empty AND wait 0.

[amber edge]

train cargo is bit less station cargo tho

make sure keep eye on train cargo

[restive sparrow]

I was wondering why my platforms weren't full when it dropped off! That makes sense.

[amber umbra]

I don’t remember the details, but there were mentions of a bug causing AND to not work properly. I’d double check that isn’t causing issues for you. (easy to check)

[amber edge]

as long train cargo isnt overfilled each loop it should be good throughput

[restive sparrow]

It seems to be running right after filling.

I haven't seen any belts stop I guess I was just stressing the number. I'll keep an eye on it and make sure the belts don't stop and trust it

[amber edge]

trust the train cargo, observe cargo after pick up, if its full and station still has some, the throughput is cut

[amber umbra]

Reasonable. Train stuff can be tricky to test as can take a while to equilibrate the system letting you assess the steady state.

[amber edge]

yeah since trains is essentially a manifold but in large scale

[restive sparrow]

That was the hope!

[opal locust]

I need some actual math done

I don't have enough limestone for this full conversion, so some of the iron will need to be made in smelters

[dusky dust]

I'd always wanted to use Basic Iron Ingot on my 1.0 playthrough but I never did find a situation where it made sense

It's nice on Iron efficiency but the limestone requirements always ended up being too much for me

[opal locust]

I think it gets better the later on you get. It avoids the refinery spam of pure ingots, and copper becomes a precious commodity in Phase 4/5 so no alloy ingots

let's not even discuss what a waste sulfur would be on leached ingots

I'll have 1200 limestone from a mk3 miner on a pure node, that goes into 30 foundries for 1500 ingots, meaning the last 300 have to come from 10 smelters

or 12 foundries and 4 smelters with shards

[amber edge]

I think its worth it to do leached caterium as they are sparse

[opal locust]

true, but definitely not leached iron ingots

[amber edge]

yeah theres too much iron in world

[dusky dust]

Yeah, leached recipes are somewhat niche; definitely depends on if you've got sulfur nearby to spare, and what your other plans for sulfur are. If you're not trying to max out power or whatever, you're likely to have plenty of spare sulfur anyway, even though it's a comparatively rare resource

[opal locust]

that and iron and limestone are commonly found together, making another argument for basic ingots

[dusky dust]

On my 1.0 playthrough it turns out I was only using 20% of the world's sulfur, and that's with both a decent amount of Rocket Fuel and a full Nuclear setup that wasn't tiny (plus all ammo types, though I was only producing those in pretty small quantities)

So it's not like I'd've felt any Leached usage

[amber edge]

they are also good for convertor in phase 5

[restive sparrow]

What's your beef with pure? Just that refineries are large?

[amber edge]

idk why thats problem, i like refineries

[dusky dust]

Yeah, some folks just don't like refinery spam, and the fact that you're adding in fluids/pipes to a process that doesn't really need it. Especially when there are other alts which are usually nearly as good. The one that usually pushes people over the edge is Pure Copper, which does require a hell of a lot of refineries

Similar to how some folks don't like Fuel Gen spam for stuff like rocket fuel. (Oddly, I'm 100% behind huge arrays of refineries for the Pure recipes, but don't really enjoy slapping down rows and rows of fuel gens. Go figure.)

[amber edge]

my around 2kpm copper tower lol using pure copper, thinking to flush pipes and use leached since i have extra sulfur sitting around here

But I dont want to strain the main bus of that copper as its already mostly consumed so I will make new stop somewhere in world to bring in shitload of copper powder, cant believe i need 600 copper for 100 powder dang

[robust raptor]

I'm a certified refinery hater myself

I refuse to use pure ingot recipes because they require so many refineries and space

[robust raptor]

Funnily enough, I'm the opposite

I hate pure ingot recipes but don't mind spamming fuel gens, even non-sharded ones

Maybe it's just that fuel gens are usually out of the way, like oil processing which I also don't mind the refineries for

[thorny root]

Need: 1200 m^3 of water into this blue pipe and 3 others like it on each vertical layer. total 8 Mk2 pipes minimum required per layer of machines, total mk2 pipes required for the whole stack of packagers: (32 machines * 16 layers) 128.

I'd like to break this problem down into a single 1/4 layer and nail down exactly how to manifold it to ensure as close as possible to the target throughput of 600m3 per pipe. Normally I would buffer and gravity feed but this design has to be compact.

[amber edge]

didnt realize particle accelerator takes 20k power when overclocked and slooped lmao

[thorny root]

"Welcome to Ficit's Presentation on Pioneer got Power Problems... Heh. That was a joke."

[amber edge]

still got room to spare lol

[robust raptor]

The first time I did that, I saw the power consumption and immediately unoverclocked it lol

[thorny root]

Is this a viable solution to my problem? 4 water packagers per 1 pipe, zig zag gravity buffer, no merges except the two water extractors being tandemed at the source.

Required: 600m3 of water per each of the 4 packagers grouped and attached with the zig zag pipe buffer. Will this work?

[restive sparrow]

I doubt I have the knowhow to be an answer, I'm just curious...What's the purpose of the zig-zag? Is the water coming from the top and input to the packager is bottom?

[thorny root]

The purpose of the zigzag is to be a buffer of sorts. It kills all the sloshing, hopefully, and by simply dropping water in the top, I can expect gravity to ensure there's no attempted backflow, thus maximizing my throughput.

At least that's my understanding of the expected outcome... and that's why I'm asking. I'm not 100% sure.

[restive sparrow]

Interesting idea.

[prisma kraken]

it should work. with 4 consumers, sloshing is pretty minimal, and gravity feeding tends to make liquid go in the correct direction. if it doesn't work as expected, you have enough space to make a downward flowing tree which would eliminate all possibility of slosh

i believe you could use much less pipe and accomplish the same effect

[quick gorge]

I think you should keep the amount of pipe, it looks pretty cool

[thorny root]

Nice.

And yeah we're keeping the pipe. It's starting to develop a massive heat exchanger vibe.

[quick gorge]

Saaaame

The water exchanger

[thorny root]

Condensation coil 😄

[quick gorge]

It's wonderful!

[thorny root]

I'm happy with it.

[thorn bane]

@wind spade ive been thinking, im pretty sure main base actually does use less machines then independency
because all the factories are used for the endgame items like PCC/super computers/turbomotors
where with independency you would have a modular frame and a HMF and a PCC factory, leading to 3 modular frame parts compared to only 1 for the main base
with the 1 of the main base being the same amount of machines than the PCC factory, so the modular frame and HMF factories modular frames are extra
this has the downside of only buffering modular frames while youre not making PCCs but by the time you get to PCC you already have a full buffer of modular frames so its fine

[restive sparrow]

Where did you get this diagram? This looks like it's from the plumbing guide but I don't see it in the plumbing guide.

[opaque quartz]

!wikisearch alumina+solution

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=alumina+solution

[restive sparrow]

Is there a reason you couldn't make one giant batch of sloppy alumina refineries with the recycled water coming in as the higher priority input in a VIP?

IE: Is it troublesome to get the VIP working well and you're better off just building the couple of extra refineries to segregate the fluids?

[thorn bane]

VIP isnt reliable imo

[opaque quartz]

VIP is black magic. They can work but are not well understood. Keeping waste+fresh separate is foolproof

Or sinking all waste (wet concrete, packaged water, coal gens, etc) and supplying all fresh water

[restive sparrow]

Thanks guys. I'll just spend the couple of extra refineries for the peace of mind

[vapid gorge]

the one wit hthe ratios? it should be there

[restive sparrow]

The proper plumbing guide has a very small section on recycling byproducts, but not that page.

Someone did link the other page in the wiki that has it though. It through me off cause it's the same artwork as the plumbing guide and I couldn't find it leafing through.

[vapid gorge]

weird.

might not ahve been included in it I guess

[celest mantle]

You're gonna want them for making nuclear pasta, trust me

I'm curious if anyone has put into practice the fact that you can make Ion fuel without any external turbo fuel via somersloops

and not even that much coal input for diamonds

[thorn bane]

alloy is better imo

[sonic gull]

Red forest bit of a challenge to build in seems only good for bauxite... anyone build anything there? or should I Train my bauxite out and build elsewhere?

[vapid gorge]

why not process it on location?

[sonic gull]

Because the big red trees are so pretty 🙂

[opaque quartz]

Red forest is fine for aluminum production. Bauxite, water, coal, and there’s oil nearby for electrode scrap too

Build between the trees, over the lake

[restive sparrow]

Hmmmmmm my railway throughput I think is underperforming. I'm seeing the output storage empty before the next delivery drops off.

Oh wait...I forgot I upgraded the belts to the sinks to mk5 while the loading is still all mk4...It's probably fine

[vapid gorge]

doesn't really take much space to process it, and there's spots with fewer trees

[opal locust]

and there's my 225/minute Ficsite Trigon factory

[umbral idol]

Am I wrong or is the heat fused frame alt recipe is worse in every way besides space and power?? Why do all the alt recipes tier list have it so high ?

[vapid gorge]

1. because alt recipe tier lists are all shit. Every single one

2. because you misread it and it's effectively a bit of fuel for much less bauxite

the main choice for it is

is saving a bunch of bauxite for adding oil and a bit of complexity a good thing for you?

[prisma kraken]

the reason people advocate partitioning the fresh and wastewater refineries is that if the factory ever backs up or pauses for another reason, the balance of water in the loop causes deadlock. if you partition, it'll self-heal.

i personally don't bother with partitioning and rely on the system never backing up, which i ensure with sinks placed where needed

one thing i'd advise against doing is using distilled silica to supply the base alum ingot recipe - distilled silica is itself another feedback loop and between that and the aluminum loop, you end up spending a lot of time resetting it all and bouncing btw two factories to get it 'just right'

[vapid gorge]

just have a process for purified crystal and distilled silica and send off the needed silica

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's nothing particularly tricky about making it work, but as layers of complexity stack, chaotic effects occur

[vapid gorge]

I mean it's just keeping the byproduct fluid in an independent unit with it's source.

[prisma kraken]

i agree it is a 'just that simple' sort of thing on paper. from experience you end up with a lot of moving parts that all have to be 100%

[vapid gorge]

it's not any different than the alumina waste split

[prisma kraken]

i ended up having to redo the belting of the alum foundries' inputs to be balanced splits to get it to tolerate starts & stops

[vapid gorge]

you shouldn't need that if you keep teh waste and fresh split

[prisma kraken]

i got it working, of course, but i don't think i'll be keen on doing a build like that the same way again

[deft drum]

I am using the diluted packaged recipe.
So technically I would need 432 steel canisters /min to make packaged water and it will output 432 canisters /min to unpackage the fuel.
Would I exactly need 432 canisters on my belt or more because of some reason?

[wind spade]

No, that number is irrelevant for number of canisters.

Actual number of canisters in your loop would depend on ways how you build your loop

[deft drum]

I connected the output canisters to the input manifold in the packaged water.

the packagers in the front go into the back ones

[wind spade]

Yeah I would recommend making it in 1:1:1 modules

[deft drum]

I hope you don't mean rebuild the whole thing.

Because then with some magic I would have to fit in around 8 belts or so

and then feed into one by one refineries

[fathom warren]

For me it worked to make a lot of canisters and manually fill water packagers until I didn't see any yellow lights on water packagers/ there never was an empty water packager

[deft drum]

or will the whole thing overtime adjust?

[deft drum]

I did make the whole belt with canisters, but then realized the output of my fuel unpackagers would not go out

[wind spade]

1 reinfery, 2 packagers, loop the belt, put 20 canisters in it, save it as a blueprint, repeat as many times as you want

[deft drum]

I don't get what you mean

[fathom warren]

I was able to get my whole power plant running at ~95% without making it separated like this, I just made 2 sets of 8 packagers(full 480 belt)

[wind spade]

make this as a module

[fathom warren]

I didn't need to make it separated as much

[deft drum]

Yeah but I don't want to rebuild the whole thing. No space-

[wind spade]

space is practically infinite (and you can go vertical)

and I'm just recommending what I'd do

[deft drum]

8 belts too much

[wind spade]

the belt just goes between the machines

you can do a vertically stacked blueprint or something

[deft drum]

should I just fill pacakgers with canisters

[fathom warren]

From your setup it should be good enough to make 800 canisters, put 100 into each water packagers, wait if you see yellow lights, if yes add 100 to each water packager.

[deft drum]

btw some are unclocked

also I did it (mk4 belts) and then fuel outptus clogged

I have a stupid idea tho

Very stupid.

[fathom warren]

I think that you shouldn't have the "canister loop" completely full

[deft drum]

I have 432 in there. (what my packagers need)
I think it is adjusting, one of the refineries filled with packaged water.

same with tf refinery

around 4 of tf ones.

[fathom warren]

You have a manifold setup you should put more than the 432 canisters in there

[deft drum]

480 is my max.

How much would you recommend?

479?

[wind spade]

you're confusing "items per minute" with "actual items"

[deft drum]

How so?

[fathom warren]

Also if you fill them with an outside belt you should put a priority merger to prioritize canisters from fuel unpackagers

[wind spade]

you can have 5000 canisters in the setup, it would probably work just fine, that doesn't care about belt speed

[deft drum]

How much canister /min you want me to put then?

[fathom warren]

I don't mean the clock speed of packagers, keep that as you have, just put more empty canisters into there.

[wind spade]

you're not putting cannisters/min there
you're putting cannisters

[deft drum]

The unpackagers then get filled with canisters, if I have a full belt.

[wind spade]

which is why I recommend the separated setup

[fathom warren]

You don't need to put them there automatically, ideally you shouldn't, just put more items in there manualy.

[deft drum]

can I just make a smart splitter and if it's overflown I sink the overflown ones?

[fathom warren]

You should put there canisters in batches of 432(for your setup), keep putting them in until you don't see a yellow light

[deft drum]

So as soon as all lights get green I shut the canister constructor off?

[fathom warren]

I don't have a canister input belt m, I just loaded it manually

[fathom warren]

Pretty much

[deft drum]

you loaded all packagers full and then it worked?

like 100 each?

[fathom warren]

But it is better to put them manually than you will get 100 into each one, and won't have the first full and last empty

[fathom warren]

Yeah

[deft drum]

aight then imma remove every canister and manually add 100 to each packager

[fathom warren]

In the end I ended up putting ~400 into each, that is mainly because I have the water packagers on opposite side of my factory from the fuel ones

[deft drum]

I will lyk if after I put 100 canisters into each Water Packager.

[fathom warren]

Try 100 it probably won't be enough, wait some time and fill them up again

[deft drum]

But I am still using the manifold system btw

[fathom warren]

If you will see green lights on water packagers constantly stop adding canistes

Manifold is completely fine, I'm using the same

[deft drum]

I will connect the bin to the manifold till all green

or I manually fill all packagers, after not all are green I keep puttin in4

[fathom warren]

Better to put the canisters in manually

[deft drum]

aight, so put them in non green ones?

[fathom warren]

With belt in you would get lot of them in, that way you can have bit too much

Not in just not green ones, into all of them

You can put them in with the belt, but be careful to not overfill it

[deft drum]

All are green, except last 2

[fathom warren]

Add some more canisters

[deft drum]

ouh uhh

Some are turning off.

[oblique hollow]

go and check their menu then

[deft drum]

can't I just make overflow into a sink?

[fathom warren]

You can, it's easier to not put too much in

[oblique hollow]

a priority merger would actually be useful here..

[fathom warren]

If you have an input line with canisters than yes

[sage nexus]

if I'm trying to determine how fast a storage container will fill up, is it the max storage divided by the items/min?

[remote flame]

Yes, that'll give you the time (in minutes) till at full capacity 🙂

just remember different stack sizes will change the capacity and hence time to fill ofc!

[sage nexus]

thnaks for confirming! I kinda thought that was it but wasn't too sure

[frail spire]

Does anyone know why my refinery is clogging, it makes 720 aluminium scrap per min, mk 5 belt with 780 per min extracts, but the scrap clogs up anyway

nevermind, there was a tiny mk 4 belt in front of a splitter

[silver dune]

guys can someone provide me an advice i built alumin production that requier 540 water min i got 2 wtr extractors that produce 240 and aluminium scrap get me 300 water in output but fucking refinerys keep overflowing with water even when im flushing pipes, mb i dont know some pipe mechanic? It is my 2nd production and in 1 time didn`t have that problem at all

[celest mantle]

Try to make the output pipes for the scrap refineries go higher in elevation than the input pipes for the solution, and have a valve at that highest elevation

that way it basically forces the fluid byproduct to go first even if you have too much from your water pumps

[frosty owl]

To put it under a different perspective and more "proper" math (because I was bored):

• "How fast storage container fills" = Time Until Full (TUF, minutes)

• "Storage full" = storage has reached Max Capacity (MC, pure number), with exactly "stack-size" times "inventory slots" items inside

• Input (items/min received)

• Time Until Full (TUF) =
  MC / Input =
  Number of items/ (number of items/min) =
  Number x (min/number) =
  (Number x min) / number = minutes
  Note: "x" indicates a multiplication

[celest mantle]

and it can be just 1 or 2 notches higher, it doesnt have to be insanely high

[prisma kraken]

this is my preferred means of building aluminum. the freshwater input is metered to supplement the wastewater output. when building this way, the scrap output of the refineries can never back up otherwise the system blocks

pictured is sloppy+electro, but any combo of solution+scrap recipes should work if you clock the refineries to be 1:1 and are mindful of belt & pipe speeds

[silver dune]

thx i`ll try using valves now

used to skipping them

[prisma kraken]

they will not help

[silver dune]

this guy say it do

[prisma kraken]

cheers, see ya in a few hours

[silver dune]

😭

[silver dune]

too be fair don`t have every alt recipe unlucked that you listed

[prisma kraken]

i can't win the argument about some random source on the internet saying something different from what i am saying when i'm essentially some random internet source as well

[celest mantle]

well that's specifically with the elevation change in mind, with no elevation difference you can still end up with too much water at the output of your scrap machines

because being at the same elevation means it wont have a reason to prioritize waste water over pump water

[silver dune]

kk i tried valves it`s working now? but i need some time to reassure

[prisma kraken]

a lot of misinformation about pipes exist and a lot of people stumble on stuff that makes a specific problem disappear and then generalize their fixes-it-by-coincidence solution to be the truth

[silver dune]

pipe mechanics are not the most clear ones in this game

like its half time working without real reason and other times its dont

[celest mantle]

im also personally not a fan of just sinking the waste water by packaging or using it for other recipes so take what I say with that in mind; objectively speaking those alternate options are fine too

[celest mantle]

the inability to visualize any kind of sloshing in the pipe doesnt help

(also do you have some special character replacing your apostrophes?)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, my reason for using the packager there is that the water is coming from a well and i can't make use of it all divided how it needs to be without a packaging loop

[silver dune]

idk?? using this one `

[oblique hollow]

yeah dont use that one

[prisma kraken]

it can also use an extractor tuned to the exact amt of freshwater needed

[oblique hollow]

Example
that one puts things in code blocks

' use these instead

[silver dune]

' damm this one so far away from my fingers

[oblique hollow]

then dont use any

[celest mantle]

wait hang on

[silver dune]

is apostrophes are kinda important in your language?

[celest mantle]

you can just package the output water, and then have it priority merge onto a belt to then unpackage it on the input side

[prisma kraken]

no

[oblique hollow]

just a quick question:
do you deal with all the scrap being produced?
or do some refineries fill up with scrap

[celest mantle]

oh right, that's still only in experimental

[prisma kraken]

the forward quote is used to provide contracted words like can't and to denote posession with 's like "McGalleon's statement was something he just said"

[sage nexus]

right, I did the other math in my head already. I just simplified my question

[prisma kraken]

the backquote isn't used for anything really except as a failed attempt from the early days of computing to typeset differently the opening and closing quotation marks differently

[silver dune]

in this prod i have 360+360+180= 900 prod and 10 foundries 90x10=900

so i guess no

[oblique hollow]

can your belt even handle that much scrap?

[silver dune]

differnet belts

[prisma kraken]

in modern digital typography, the backquote is used for some special case computer code stuffs

[oblique hollow]

please just check the refineries then, open their menu and check if a lot of scrap is inside them

[silver dune]

170 in 1

that's all

[oblique hollow]

yeah thats a problem

[silver dune]

why that

[oblique hollow]

that will cause the refinery to get clogged at some point
and then it wont use alumina
and then the water starts backing up

[silver dune]

ok so i just took it i guess

it`s not going up anyway

[oblique hollow]

if you have a closed water loop, the scrap refineries must always run at 100% efficiency

always. If they dont, the system will break

[frosty owl]

Me most of the times I read critiques on bottom-feeding:

[frosty owl]

Or a certain bug has made a return

[oblique hollow]

i dont know of any certain bug

[frosty owl]

Coughs in fluid loss

[oblique hollow]

no

never bring that up again

[frosty owl]

Let it RIP

[brazen kettle]

How many modular frames yall making in the end game?

[wind spade]

5/min max

[brazen kettle]

Surely lots are needed for the conversion cubes and fused modular frames

[restive sparrow]

lol

[wind spade]

that is not counted for "making HMFs", because that's not making HMFs as a product

[amber edge]

Yeah I’m making total of around 25 hmf but only few is fed into depot and sank

[brazen kettle]

How many frames are needed for that

I am trying to plan ahead

[amber edge]

Generally at least 1 hmf pm into depot is enough you don’t really need much of them and they stack up fast enough

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, makes sense. But I wanna make pressure conversion cubes

25 has to be enough for everything in the game ever right?

[amber edge]

Yep

It’s kinda overkill ngl, I like to overkill and sink for points

I have two independent factories

One doing 15 one doing almost 10

Different recipes

[brazen kettle]

That needs 125 frames, so let's say you need like 5 HMF, that is another 25 modular frames

And in addition to that maybe like 5 just clean frames

155 frames is a lot

[amber edge]

I will suggest heavy encased frames alt, it’s easy to find spot with plenty iron and some limestone

8 frame to 3 hmf ratio as well

Better than 5:1

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, I gotta do lots of math for this

I am trying to make a crazy iron factory in spawn to fit my needs for the rest of the game

[amber edge]

Just go to different biome and make independent factory making just hmf

It will feel easier this way

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, for HMF probably. But I might make the frames in one factory and transport them over and make the other materials there

[amber edge]

Rocky desert is great spot for it

Lot of iron and limestone

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, that is a great spot

And for fused I will also have to make an independent factory

[amber edge]

It’s easy recipe

If you set up aluminum factory and nitrogen packaged somewhere

Feed via train with hmf, could fed into hmf factory

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, I am gonna make an insane aluminum factory. So that is clear. And the rest is kinda simple

[amber edge]

Just make enough and save bauxite for future uses

[brazen kettle]

What other uses are there for bauxite though?

[amber edge]

Fiscites

[brazen kettle]

That is the new stuff right?

[amber edge]

Phase 5

Will need to be made into aluminum anyway

Just don’t use up too much and save for later. Bauxite is limited

[brazen kettle]

Yeah but all bauxite needs to made in aluminum, just not casing and sheets?

[amber edge]

You could convert them for uranium or nitrogen

But handling all aluminum in single factory is high task

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, I like hard tasks

[amber edge]

Plus once you unlock higher belt your factory becomes obsolete, aluminum is something you need lots of, just make what you need then as you got mk6 belts that’s best time to go all out

[restive sparrow]

I intend on making a 3000bauxite/minute consuming factory even though I can't pull that much from the nodes yet. It is possible to make a scalable factory that can grow as you upgrade belts.

Probably easier to build smaller and modular, though.

[amber edge]

It’s hard to scale up the water recycling thing without redoing the pipes, it’s easier to just make separate new factories imo

[restive sparrow]

Just build in blocks 🤷

[amber edge]

Not my style

[restive sparrow]

You can repeat this ad infinitum

This can still turn into one big sloppy alumina building and one big scrap building, even scaling with blocks if you plan your inputs and outputs properly.

[amber edge]

Good recipe as long you got coke coal production and adding in silica will 3:4 the scrap ratio

[restive sparrow]

I'm grabbing coke from my crude oil setup so it works out.

[restive sparrow]

This intersection is giving me guff again...I've copied the common guide pictured first and I'm getting conflicting signal warnings.

I have blocks at the inputs to the stations, paths on the outputs of the stations. blocks at the inputs to track outside of the intersections and paths heading into the intersections

It complains that the signal loops into itself

I feel like the left and right track through the intersection shouldn't be the same color but I'm still a bit fuzzy on that.

[amber edge]

Do this, add path before stations and change those to blocks for exiting stations

One of my set up have this, but I have extra T junction on left side it works fine with path and block on that side

[restive sparrow]

I don't get why I should have to change anything from the rubber stamp recommendation everyone gives, but I tried it anyways and it still doesn't work

[amber edge]

Your right lane is bugged, replace it

[restive sparrow]

The straight part that runs through?

[amber edge]

Yes

One with flashing signs

[restive sparrow]

The left side has flashing signs coming in too, for whatever that's worth

in the distance

[amber edge]

I think half of left lane is bugged

Try remove and placing those tracks again and see, it’s something bugged

But the set up should absolutely work

[amber umbra]

I’ll second the rebuild, replace signals. I get bugging signals fairly often building rail intersections.

[restive sparrow]

Does it matter if the switch signals are facing the wrong way?

[amber edge]

Yes it will impact, make sure you got proper into and exit for junctions with path and block

[restive sparrow]

These guys

[amber umbra]

The little white arrows you can ignore. They’re just visual flair.

[amber edge]

Oh no

It will not, just the junction block itself

Check your junction block

To make sure it’s not same color as other tracks

[restive sparrow]

Oh hell I just rebuilt the tracks running through and all of the signals and it just works. It's nice that it works but that's a little frustrating

[amber edge]

Why you have path signal on exit?

Yeah it’s bugged sometimes

[amber umbra]

Yea idk the technical reason tracks have that “bug”. But yea, fun stuff.

[restive sparrow]

I don't have path signals on exit, unless you mean the paths on the entrance to the merged section after the stations

[amber edge]

Right one is the exit, use block

[restive sparrow]

Oh I replaced that. That was a temporary fuck around trying to fix things

[amber edge]

Alright

[restive sparrow]

Great catch though

[amber edge]

I’m your trains guy

[restive sparrow]

I'll keep that in mind!

How can you visually differential the signals?

[amber edge]

Path have uh trim

Look at them they are different

[restive sparrow]

Oh yeah I see that color trim now,.

Well I haven't built anything to consume it yet but I completed tracks into that insane cave in the NW to pick up quartz and sam. Mostly as a challenge for learning track laying. I'm hoping/assuming I'll be using those materials soon.

Thanks for the help gents!

[amber edge]

Yeah fun tunnel to have tracks go through, I have it there picking up two pure quartz nodes as well

My silicas fluid factory is there

[restive sparrow]

Was a little tight getting a station in there but we got it squeezed in lol

[amber edge]

For sure

[oblique hollow]

did you change this one to a path signal yet? i didnt quite make it out in the discussion above

[restive sparrow]

I removed it all together and went back to the rubber stamp picture guide

[oblique hollow]

well for future refernce: it would have worked if that one was path

[restive sparrow]

It wouldn't have. It was bugging out

[oblique hollow]

your only mistake here was that one of the signals leading INTO the path signal block was a block signal

all signals leading into a block must be of the same type

else you get the "conflicting signal type" message

[restive sparrow]

They were all matching. I'd moved to try this suggested layout #math-and-meta message

Rebuilding the tracks fixed it all and I reverted to the picture guide version

[oblique hollow]

one of the tracks indeed didnt split, i saw that now

[amber edge]

Block on exiting station into junction works, it gives it priority over trains going into junction

[oblique hollow]

thats new to me, that should actually result in a signal error

if other signals into that junction were path signals

[amber edge]

See the graph I colored over, that’s my set up ircc

I’m at work rn can’t check, could be remembering wrong

[oblique hollow]

im fairly certain theres at least one detail missing there

[versed violet]

Lore check: Hogs are damaged by gas pillars, correct? do spiders and lizard doggos get damaged as well?
Also, is it normal for hog and spider to slug it out until one is dead?

[silver dune]

spiders are predators

spitters and hogs are prey

spider don`t take dame from gas and radiation hogs take damage from gas but not from radiation

[versed violet]

does gas immunity depend on type of spider? I think I saw some dying in gas pillars. And are they immune to man-made biological weapons?

[silver dune]

nah every spider immune and ye to your gas grenades too

[versed violet]

...was that covered in wildlife management 101?

[silver dune]

their strongest spider is green one and can release cloud with even stronger gas then pillars do

and big ones are really disgusting

[versed violet]

what about lizard doggos and beans? they vulnerable to gas too?

[silver dune]

beans?

doggos yes but never seen one getting attacked by spider or dying by gas

[versed violet]

so you mean, if I wear doggo-suit, I will not be attacked by animals?

[silver dune]

i`m not sure

but you can try and tell

[lapis jetty]

mildly chaotic aluminium factory stuff

[pastel obsidian]

I think this is one for cobalt

[acoustic galleon]

Anyone know what the glide speed is for the parachute. Wiki says it's the same as running with bladerunners, but when I'm out and about it definitely feels faster than running

[mental crater]

from quickly testing the wiki is right

[vapid gorge]

@dusky bronze platform buffer

1 belt into an ISC, 2 belts to teh platform

[dusky bronze]

thank you

[vapid gorge]

what mk belt are you using?

[dusky bronze]

6

[vapid gorge]

have you never used trains before this?

[dusky bronze]

yes but not to this extent

trying to use all the bauxite

[vapid gorge]

right, well tehre's formlae on the wiki for it, but you probably need to split it 600 to each platform

[dusky bronze]

thats what i was doing but there was too much trains for the intersection i had

[vapid gorge]

that really shouldn't ever be an issue unless you have many many dozens of trains

[dusky bronze]

i had 7 i think

[vapid gorge]

@dusky dust

[dusky bronze]

intersection was just really really bad

[vapid gorge]

that won't have been the issue

[dusky dust]

Oh, heh, thx. :D

Had just dropped in briefly anyway; zipping AFK again now. :P

[dusky bronze]

trains were getting stuck in between blocks because they were too long

going to try rebuilding the intersection and then buffering everything

[vapid gorge]

ok that's not a junction thats... something else

you probably want to rip most of that up

[dusky bronze]

yeah 😭

[vapid gorge]

have a main 2 way line
have your stations off to the side

if you only have 1 train stopping at a station you'll never have an issue here

[dusky bronze]

i was having 2-3 trains per station

[vapid gorge]

yeah rip all of that out

keep it 1 to 1

your platforms only have X amount of possible throughput, each extra train that stops there reduces the throughput

because trains loading and unloading stop belt movement for 27 seconds

[dusky bronze]

so 1 train per station?

[vapid gorge]

in general that's simplest

[dusky bronze]

thats gonna be tigh

[vapid gorge]

train platforms don't have that much throughput

[dusky bronze]

i dont have any room to work with towards the right

have some on the right but im not sure if it will be enough

[vapid gorge]

if you can only unload 1/2 of a mk6 belt on the outgoing platform don't expect more on the other end

[dusky bronze]

thoughts on this?

[vapid gorge]

I don't understand why you have 4 rails

[amber edge]

You can max single mk belt into single station by using buffer, industrial storage, while it is prioritized bottom output but when train loads and blocks input the storage will begin to build up then that’s the top slot for, have both from storage into train with single mk belt into storage, top slot will make up the lost input rate of single mk belt

[vapid gorge]

ISC's priority out put changes and it doesn't make a difference to this situation

[vapid gorge]

also with mk6 belts you often can't do 1 belt per platform

[dusky bronze]

set on the left is coming from swamp/blue crater lake, one on the right is from red forest (i have them separated because the crater lake track has trains for my fuel plant and the first time i did this there were problems)

[vapid gorge]

make it one line

[amber edge]

That depends on train time yeah if the station get filled to max before train returning the throughput rate get cut

[vapid gorge]

as soon as the 2 lines come near

[vapid gorge]

it's a very short return time you'd need to move 1x mk6 belt on a platform.

[dusky bronze]

the problem is i do not want to have any more trains than i need to on the bottom track

[amber edge]

Or add more trains as they actually do work

[dusky bronze]

if that gets blocked off i lose power to the world

[vapid gorge]

as soon as you build the station inputs fine you'll never have it blocked off

[vapid gorge]

more lock out times to a station also reduce throughput :\

[amber edge]

Just make sure you calculate properly

Easiest solution is just add more cars anyway

[dusky bronze]

i only have the concrete slab to cliff wall to work with, and im not sure if i can fit the 6-7 train stations in

all of the stations are going to need to be 5 freight platforms + 2 for engines

[amber edge]

But tho good question, why 4 rails

Just use signals and have proper main rail and branches set up

[vapid gorge]

two floors

[dusky bronze]

this is my second time building the factory, first time around i had all the trains on one track and something with the signals was causing them to stop in the middle of intersections

i've got all night i'll see what i can do

[vapid gorge]

it was the in/out rails to the stations plus having multiple trains at a station

[dusky bronze]

wasnt clogging there

[amber edge]

Deadlocking?

[dusky bronze]

yeah

[amber edge]

Are you using path signals properly

[dusky bronze]

i destroyed the old factory along with a couple intersections

i think everything will be good if i do the signals right but we'll see

[dusky bronze]

if you're supposed to put one on the "in" track to every intersection, then yes

[amber edge]

Just have blocks between 6-8 tiles and path in block out any junctions

Train stations can be junctions

[opal locust]

What's the preferred endgame item to build a sink factory for to get that golden nut trophy? I know Ballistic Warp Drives have the highest sink value, but the AI Expansion Server is the most cost efficient according to the wiki.

[dusky bronze]

if you're going on a mass scale maybe aluminum

im gonna be using leftovers for my aluminum factory and it should be making ~1.3mil points/min

[fallow siren]

1.3mil per min points means nothing if youre going for nut trophy

automate space part in large scale

they gives a lot of point

[vapid gorge]

I really don't think there's a prefereed. Just sink what is produced

[thorn bane]

warp drives eat dark matter residue, ai expansion servers generates it so its probably best to do a mix of both
i havent looked into it too much though
anyone know if there are any tools around that optimize based on building amount?

[dusky bronze]

i think i've fixed things
big thanks for everyone that helped

[vapid gorge]

yeah your stations are facing the wrong way

[fresh tundra]

thank u

[versed violet]

Probably late to the party (just returning to tier 8), but are batteries kinda "useless" nowadays? No longer used in project parts (mag field gen), only used in one Supercomp alt that could be skipped, and otherwise they just fuel? With drones no longer running exclusively on batteries, why bother? Petroleum is plenty and easier to make, so running on that.

[fallow siren]

you still can use batteries for drone

[versed violet]

notice the distinction between can and must. I already have drone carry fuel for trucks, might as well run off the same belt instead of supplying separate belt for batteries.

[fallow siren]

honestly its just a matter of choice

the game just simply gave an option for you to choose

[prisma kraken]

packaging the better fuel types for drones takes aluminum which can be a consideration

[versed violet]

dont batteries use alu?

[thorn bane]

yep
super state computers great though

[prisma kraken]

yeah they do, i forget what the numbers on which is cheaper for it all

i'm just returning to the game now after a break. in my 1.0 playthrough, i managed to get through everything with using yellow fuel to power drones, lol

[versed violet]

doesn't seem worth the effort to use other fuel types, as long as the petrol suffices

[prisma kraken]

if you are going longer distances as is the benefit of drones, the better fuels do substantially increase throughput

[versed violet]

Only using drones for very minuscule amounts (HMF) for now, so throughput is not an issue

[prisma kraken]

most of what i was doing in that playthrough with drones was low volume stuff and fuel distibution for truck stops

[fallow siren]

iirc both batteries and rocket fuel has same top speed for drones

[prisma kraken]

the thing is that if you're going all-in on a completionist sort of world, the drone fuels you use before nuclear will ultimately be supplanted with plut or fics rods

[versed violet]

Have yet to unlock rocket fuel, but I expect it to be a blast

[prisma kraken]

so it kind of is 'what do you use before you get to nuclear?' as a question

it isn't very good in the jetpack, but man, it makes a ton of power

[versed violet]

Drones are literally 1 box before nuclear, so kinda moot point

[fallow siren]

sure but plutonium rod is the last milestone

for phase 4

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i've found that that last mile takes a loooong time to build

[dusky bronze]

will ~220k MW be enough for a factory using almost all of the tier 6 stuff or am i going to have to upgrade to nuclear

[fallow siren]

220GW, thats enough to finish the game, but also depend on how big you build

[dusky bronze]

i see

[prisma kraken]

yeah, probably a good range if you aren't going nuts

[dusky bronze]

my rocket fuel plant should be making 220GW by itself but pipes are screwing things up so i dont think i can get any more power without making a big nuclear plant

[amber edge]

someone claimed they beat game with like 40 gw so

probably guy who hand chunks into everything and half asses for all rocket parts lol

[fallow siren]

i mean, i did beat the game with only 40GW

[prisma kraken]

this is where my 1.0 playthrough sort of ended with power:

[amber edge]

oh man i finished phase 4 with 80gw max consumpation lol

[prisma kraken]

i cheesed most of the last phase though

[amber edge]

yeah phase 5 parts seems too easy compated to phase 4

[fallow siren]

bcs it is