math-and-meta

[fallow siren]

and very compact

[pastel obsidian]

Lay some rail is a good option

[crimson moat]

better turbo blend fuel rocketfuel layout

[opal locust]

I don't want to lay more rail, I want to progress

[crimson moat]

Ye, just pick some parts and automate them

big ones are RCU's, turbo motors and fused modular frames

[fallow siren]

if you dont want to mess with train and want progress, just belt/pipe everything

even if its 2-4km away

[opal locust]

I don't have factories yet to send those rails to

I would just be making rails that go nowhere

This all came up because I need aluminum casings for my RCU factory, but I don't know how to get it to said factory and figured I could use drones instead, so now I'm on this whole side track to get a drone network started because I even work on my RCU factory and it's now just a big mess.

[crimson moat]

I handcrafted a bunch of RCU's to play in phase 4 before automating them

[opal locust]

I don't even know where I'm going to build this RCU factory

[fallow siren]

wherever you like

[opal locust]

If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking for help.

[vapid gorge]

Have you made a plan for them in tools?

[restive mantle]

tools aint the way to go, you gotta do it the right way by writing it down and hand solving the flow, and then forget how to do it 5 times and re calculate it over and over

then tear the factory down once you build it after urealise u forgot 1 smelter

[delicate chasm]

I didn't forget a smelter, I built the entire thing on the impure copper node I needed to tap to make the wire to make this whole thing work.

😤

[restive mantle]

🔥 thats when u decide to just work on another project for 3 hours

[opal locust]

all I'm doing is making plans in tools, but I don't know if they're any good

Tools doesn't take into account logistics

[vapid gorge]

That why you use SCIM at the same time, look at locations, swap recipes out to change base resources

[opal locust]

I am using both Tools and the Interactive Map at the same time

I'm just used to builds having to factor 2-3 things at most, not a dozen.

[vapid gorge]

Good. Find a spot that has most of what you need and compromise on what you’re willing to move

Maybe break it down into two or three hubs

[opaque pebble]

That dozen can themselves be broken down into their own constituent parts

[pastel obsidian]

Try looking at Satisfactory modeler, you can make factories and connect them with logistics

[opal locust]

I don't even know what I'm building anymore

[pastel obsidian]

Computers are always a good start

[opaque pebble]

Modeler is very manual, which may or may not be a bad thing

Something like this

You can have one node represent all machines using that recipe

or you can do something like this

(it's just 15 separate nuclear power plants)

[civic bronze]

Modeller is good factory "notepad" , for ?initial? planning sftools is better imo

I do like and use both

[opaque pebble]

I would use it more if it didn't bork so much when handling resource loops

[opal locust]

Well I had the initial goal of "RCU's without oil" which is doable with the default and radio connection units

but that alt also adds caterium

[fallow siren]

modeler is so poor at handling loop system

[opal locust]

Is there a way to make Tools use an alt recipe for some of a plan?

[vapid gorge]

Make another tab to make that item then use it as an input for the main tab. Like I showed you

[civic bronze]

i think i learned to use it for loops, like i can do rubber/plastic recycling like in tools, aluminium is no problem as well, with overclocks/sloops

#math-and-meta message

[opaque pebble]

Sometimes it manages to resolve the loop, but then even though it's contained in its own outpost it borks when I try to use that outpost's output

[civic bronze]

Got solution for that

[pastel obsidian]

The priority merger is a quick fix for me

[opaque pebble]

Priority merger coming out of the outpost?

[opal locust]

So then I get this for oil-less RCUs

[pastel obsidian]

Whatever the loop gets stuck on

[opal locust]

The question then becomes, which started the whole drone sub-tangent, is how do I get the casings to this factory?

[opaque pebble]

hmm

[civic bronze]

@opaque pebble

shows you how much left is there too

[opaque pebble]

oh yeah, I remember doing something like that now

I keep forgetting, I guess

[pastel obsidian]

You get issues when you limit multiple inputs into complex production chains, I normally limit how much I'm making or scale it down

[opaque pebble]

I suppose I was overdoing it when making something like this

I'll try to make it work, for a different factory

[opal locust]

so then I guess a good spot for the RCU factory I had in mind would be here? The only trouble being getting that Quartz out of the cave.

[opaque pebble]

That cave is also where I grab my quartz for oscillators (though at the east side)

[civic bronze]

yeah quartz always in stupid places :/ but hey its good chance for a cool short rail track

[opaque pebble]

That's the only place I use long belts, actually

because it's so cramped and I'm not going to see it anyway

[civic bronze]

Ada sees everything

[opal locust]

But I feel like 2.5 RCU/minute isn't enough, since they're used for Pressure Conversion Cubes, Turbo Motors, and Supercomputers. In addition to Drones/Drone Ports, Converters, and Resource Well Pressurizers

[opaque pebble]

sure, as long as it's out of my sight

[opal locust]

and that's where my Aluminum Casings/Sheets factory is

[opaque pebble]

RCU for SuCu is only as an alt

either way, 2.5 > 0

If you really wanted to accomodate for PCC and turbotors, you could try 6/min

(2 for PCC, 3.75 for turbomotor, 0.25 for storage)

actually I gave myself an idea with those numbers

[opal locust]

I could scale it up 3 times to 7.5 RCU for an even 3 manufacturers

[fierce ruin]

is there a new planner/calc? screenshots like a bit above, never seen anything looking like that

[civic bronze]

I dont think its new, its called Satisfactory Modeller - free on steam

[opaque pebble]

I just might regret this

[vapid gorge]

Modeler is like drawing your factory out on paper , but slower

[crimson moat]

I'm doing 50, but don't do that, i was dumb

P4 is indeed an enormous scale up in complexity and time

[fallow siren]

my fastest was 15hrs completion for phase 4

[opal locust]

See I'm doing more math. I keep the 3.75 RCU output for Turbo Motor, but I use Turbo Electric Motor instead to remove oil. I downscale the alt to 3.75 and I get 1.25 Turbo Motor/min. And Turbo Motors are only used for a project part and some endgame buildings. Would that work?

[crimson moat]

you can blitz, especially with low numbers and/or handcrafting, but if you want to automate more of everything than you can ever need and you also haven't done it before then it's a looooong journey

[frosty owl]

Seeking confirmation on Experimental content:
||the belt item counter doesn't work or has terrible accuracy for throughputs close to or lower than 1/min, right?
If I observed things correctly, it might just show "0/min" for throughputs equal to or lower than 1/min||

[crimson moat]

It said that it counts items for 60sec to calibrate, so yeah probably

[frosty owl]

I had the same thought process, but wanted to confirm with others who tried it in the field ^^

[opaque pebble]

why the fuck am I trying to make 20/min RCUs to start

[opal locust]

maybe use these nodes for an Electromagnetic Control Rod factory and have drones come grab them as needed?

[fierce ruin]

i think its better to do everything in small numbers at first, and later when its needed for other recipes, then scale up, also by that time u have better belts etc

[opal locust]

ECRs are only used for a project part, a few alt recipes, and nuclear power.

[opaque pebble]

yeah I know, it's just that I'm making more croscillators than I know what to do with

(11.5/min, good for 23/min RCU)

[opal locust]

But again, these ideas are great in my head, but I need to get drones operational to do them.

[opaque pebble]

Looks like drones + your choice of fuel is the better thing to do first

and despite what ADA says, buy from the AWESOME shop all you want

It's how I got my nuclear started

Then again I have sinks everywhere

[opal locust]

I've realistically got 4 options for a Drone fuel bay, Packaged Fuel, Packaged Turbofuel, Packaged Rocket Fuel, and Batteries.

[opaque pebble]

My first drone setup was also to supply my nuclear site

Really simple (except that I have a few alts to make things nicer)

2 impure oil nodes, 1 impure iron node, good enough

[opal locust]

Packaged Fuel seems woefully inefficient for the long run despite how simple it is to make by now.

[opaque pebble]

yeah, it helps that those drones only have to travel 1 kilometre or so, that's why I felt safe using standard fuel

But even then the consumption isn't that bad, it's just slow

And I'm making 80/min packaged fuel

If you're making more batteries p/min it's already better

[real fossil]

molded steel pipe alt recipe or rescan?

[crimson moat]

Yeah, that's one of the uses for turbofuel - "i just got to p4 and dont want to build rocket fuel yet"

they can feed drones before you have rocketfuel or batteries

but generally it's really easy to turn turbofuel into more rocketfuel

regular packaged fuel is simply bad

[pastel obsidian]

Keep it for when you need it

It also helps you scanning for the same recipe

[vast wren]

Are drones radioactive hazard if I use nuclear fuel for them

[pastel obsidian]

If you give them more than one fuel rod yes

[sage nexus]

is there any reason to have more than one main pipeline for a power plant?

[vast wren]

Will they store the remaining energy if the drone flies less than the maximum range for one fuel

[oblique hollow]

yeah - you cant supply 16 coal generators with 2 mk 1 pipes

you need 3 minimum

[sage nexus]

ah, okay. thnaks!

can I power four generators with these pipes? I'd like to try to evenly split the generators and the water extractors

[pastel obsidian]

I haven't used it but it outside of messing around but it should

[outer vale]

how much water does a gen need, vs how much water can a pipe support?

[fierce ruin]

check the numbers for pipes then coal gens, easy math, the game will only get harder fi you dont figure it out now

[sage nexus]

is it just the max flow rate here that matters when trying to calculate this?

I see different pipes hold different amounts like a longer pipe holds 30m3 as opposed to a smaller segment like in the screenshot that only holds 9

[outer vale]

it's the flow rate that matters

[sage nexus]

alright, cool. I appreciate the help

[oblique hollow]

The amount a pipe holds is only needed to determine how much you have to wait before they fill

As pipes have to fill before fluid can pass through them at full speed

[amber edge]

how does pressured well works exactly

is it constant 600pm or by waves?

[civic bronze]

Works same as extractor

But pure nodes on resource well are 300/min

[amber edge]

is it better to bottle up nitrogen and deliver and sink the tanks or deliver it by fluid

i feel like setting up recycling tanks could be pain in ass

[civic bronze]

You wouldn't need to sink the tanks, if you bring them back to package again, thus making a loop
Yeah its pretty good, its compresses x4 so 1200/min in pipes turns into 300/min on belt, its seems scary but is fairly simple

[amber edge]

pipes cant have 1200min

unless two pipes?

[outer vale]

1200 as fluid turns into 300 as solid, then

the point is the numbers 😛

[civic bronze]

Also its a gas (dont confuse with fluid, ik game doesnt really explain it) it doesnt need headlift - doesnt need pumps

[amber edge]

yeah ik on no headlift on that

just wanted to see whats meta to deliver nitrogen by trains

[outer vale]

"meta" is what you make it

[amber edge]

thinking to do this, i already have 1600 fuel set up

[civic bronze]

I like drones tbh, one drone can input and output at the same time

[outer vale]

packaging does make sense, though does also mean more buildings to do that

[amber edge]

i guess i should set tank loop between nitrogen pump and power plant

so i just make bunch and recycle tanks, but no idea how do i achieve the 1200pm exactly, i assume two cars with 4 mk5 belts feeding into two stations with two 600pm packager line and drop spot as well

[civic bronze]

Keep in mind platforms stop inputing/outputing when train is docking - this can be easliy accounted for with an industrial storage container - at both train stations

[amber edge]

yeah i know you cant exactly 2x belt output out of single car, in my case around 1,100 per station with two mk5 belt drawing out so will have to cut to 600pm per station with two car train

im just asking about nitrogen tank cycle logistics, never worked with this before

[civic bronze]

Gotta be first time for everything - you got this 🙂

[amber edge]

also, where the heck i gonna get 1600 sulfur

i got coals covered no problem but 1600 sulfur jeeeeeez

[smoky aurora]

several Nodes

[tawdry blade]

930 / 2200

Coordiantes

Needs MK3 miners tho

[amber edge]

got mk3 but no mk6 belts ooof

i found nice spot for it but i would need mk6 belt for it, one pure and normal in close proximity and near power plant, but with mk5 belt i can only do 780 and 600 out of both not getting 1600 needed

will need third node

also how do i start setting up empty tank loop, i got 300pm tank production up, how do i set up priority system where they use the recycled tank over fresh tanks and have fresh tanks fed into recycled loop until its fully self sustainable, i hope the question is clear

[dusky dust]

While setting up loops, IMO just prime it by hand. Make sure you're sending Empty Packages to the depot and then pull out as many as you need

You'll need at least 3x the packages needed to keep the system running for the round-trip time -- one batch packaging on the remote end, one batch unpackaging at the production end, and then one batch at any point in transit

[civic bronze]

Yeah, tbh just put it in container by hand, see how much is good

[amber edge]

i already set up train system feeding empty tanks to nitrogen plant

[dusky dust]

And basically just keep putting in packages until you're good

[amber edge]

but i will need to make second plant to exclusively feed my power plant 1200 nitrogen pm

[dusky dust]

Closed packaging loops don't need any "fresh" packages; you'd only want to use the ones that went through the unpackaging step

(I mean, you could alternatively just sink the empty packages at the production site, and feed in new packages over at the source, but that's kind of wasteful)

[amber edge]

thats what im been doing, just scratched nitrogen surface

for my turbo engine, cooling unit and fused frame factory for personal use, you can see screenshots in #design-and-architecture recently i posted last night

#design-and-architecture message

[real fossil]

umm... maybe someone can help me. So, my powerline tool (2) was replaced by coal generator on my hotbar... how do I a) locate it and b) re-apply it to my hotbar?

nvm, i figured it out.

[fickle cedar]

can someone help me with priority mergers? i am trying to make a setup with a sushi belt and i want both belts to make 600 throughput. idealy i would want the top belt to be a speed of 1 item per minute, but since that is not possible does someone have an idea on how to set a setup like this up?

i want a sushi belt that doesnt clog up if an item is missing (it sinks the rest if an ingredient is mising)

[fierce ruin]

what is the best way to connect all of these up, they have to be organised

[gloomy shoal]

You might need to elaborate on what you're asking for - I'm guessing you're trying to merge the lower belt into the upper one?

[fierce ruin]

yep

[gloomy shoal]

Mmm
Trying to merge three lines cleanly is Not Nice^tm
My best advice is "Conveyor lift into a sealed box with mergers, clip a bunch of shit together until it works, and then conveyor lift back up to the top"

[oblique hollow]

I think for sushi the best option is still to not make loopbacks.
Sink unused material.

There is no good way for the 3 inputs to the merger to ensure a stead input of 600.. iron and copper?

Its mathetmatically not possible to have the 2 lines input 600/min while also running unused material in a loop, all on the same belt line

[rose karma]

Is there a good reference somewhere for, with distributed factories sharing a rail network, what materials should be made locally and what is considered complex enough to be transported between factories for further production use? I'm having a damn hard time deciding where to draw that line :/

[gloomy shoal]

Yeahhh if your machine rates have a break that results in ANY items not getting used, then it's distinctly possible your belt will eventually overfill itself and clog

[cerulean stratus]

I just realized hmf ask for ridiculous number of modular frames

[oblique hollow]

Im afraid there is no such reference. Its all up to your taste

[gloomy shoal]

Depends on what your priorities are
I'd figure it somewhere between "What is versatile to be transporting around" and "How many of them can I stuff into one train car"

Excellent examples including: Do you ship Caterium ingots or do you ship the Quickwire

[rose karma]

I guess I could just use Satisfactory Modeler with the assumption that everything will be imported from somewhere else, and then work off of what production numbers are too obscene for reliable transportation...

[cerulean stratus]

Personally, I don't use trains for that

I just do most things locally and then drone the rest

[gloomy shoal]

Sometimes you'll just have an obscene number anyways, like my project to make full 60 belts of every space elevator component

[fickle cedar]

coper and iron is jsut for experimentation. obviously i wouldnt run this setup on a forge. id run it on manufacturers with 20 diferent items

[rose karma]

That's what I'm struggling with. I know that I don't want to be moving raw materials or their most basic processed form, unless I absolutely need to. In your example, Quickwire would be the lowest "tier" item I'd consider importing into a factory.

[fickle cedar]

but i dont know how i would utilise the priority merger, what cna i do with it that saves time/space ?

[oblique hollow]

Even then, assuming full throughput, loopbacks are still not very wanted.

It has the chance of trapping materials on the belt that thr machines simply dont wantx wasting space

[gloomy shoal]

Honestly, stuff like Cement and Plates/Rods/Wire are exactly what I want to train around, because that tends to be the things I need an obscene amount of and might not have conveniently around

[oblique hollow]

So sushi, from my understanding, is not the right application for priority mergers

One place where i heard people really want them is packager canister loops

[wind spade]

personally I wouldn't move around things that are needed in large quantities, instead make those onside and move products that are needed in smaller quantities

[oblique hollow]

But that is a niche use. because the priority merger is very niche

[wind spade]

though those are mostly people that don't know of the nice 1:1:1 packager blueprint 😛

[rose karma]

Hmm, I guess it's a difference in approach. I get easily overwhelmed by this game, so I keep my factories small. The more manageable they are, the more I'm able to actually play. If I had to make the entire production line for a super computer in a single building, for example, I'd likely never touch the game again.

[oblique hollow]

Then dont make them in a single building

You can make it 2 buildings that neighbor each other

[fickle cedar]

in what way? for transportign liquids with drones?

[rose karma]

But at that point why not just import the parts by rail so that you only need one factory for each part?

[gloomy shoal]

I mean yeah, ideally I'd like to make all components onsite, but sometimes there just isn't enough nodes nearby to use the recipes I want, or I don't feel like routing water to where it has to be and just want it delivered

90% of my train usage is just shipping packaged water around I'm gonna be real

[oblique hollow]

Normal packaging loops with long belts where you would need to fill the line with empty canisters

[wind spade]

in that case I'd suggest building near water and shipping the few missing raw resources to the factory

[fickle cedar]

why would you need those for example?

[oblique hollow]

Dunno, you tell me. I can decide if i want to make computers somewhere alone and then move them over to the supercomputer factory.
I can make AI limiters on the spot or make them elsewhere ans import them

[oblique hollow]

For when you decide that you want them. you dont ever NEED them

[gloomy shoal]

Consider: Building near water is miserable (Swimming) and if I do need water I end up needing a cartoonish amount
I also really don't like having to make belt highways if I can help it, so I'd rather build closer to nodes or open space

[oblique hollow]

Falling in water can be avoided by paving over it first and removing unneeded foundations later

[heady anchor]

Hi guys, I need some advice. I am struggling with on what recipe I should base my next project (xD) - what's more efficient and cheaper in total. Since I'm already producing Aluminum Ingot and Alclad Aluminum Sheet, my next step is the Heat Sink and the aforementioned Aluminum Casing, but I'd like to know what recipe to choose? Let me hear you comments. thx in advance.

[gloomy shoal]

Depends on how much extra copper you have laying around really

[oblique hollow]

If you can afford the copper and need tons of casing, you can use alclad casing

Other option is to just make more aluminum.

[gloomy shoal]

Which does remind me that I need to get back to plotting out my full-scale nuclear plant
Although I'm not sure if I care about making the uranium nobelisks or not yet, so I'm debating if I use all of it on power or not

[oblique hollow]

Whats cheaper is a matter of perspective. If you think aluminum is cheap, then pick default. If copper seems cheap and expendable, its likely alclad casing

[heady anchor]

my factory is close to a dedicated pure copper deposit for manufacturing items that require aluminum, and it already produces a lot of water as a byproduct, so I use the copper production as a means of getting rid of the water I can't recycle.

[oblique hollow]

I will reiterate though: fluid transport is always abysmal compares to solid transport, so moving near the source of fluid is recommended. Use foundations or walkways to keep yourself out of the water. Or the hoverpack if you are that far already.

Belt highways can be minimized by processing the ore into other parts first sometimes. depends on need of course.
Ot by using trains / trucks

[heady anchor]

I was thinking about using an alternative recipe but decided to ask. Maybe you know something I don't, or have your own experiences with the topic that I don't know about either.

[gloomy shoal]

That's why I package the water Sorry fluid cars but youo're just so so soo garbage

[oblique hollow]

To me that sounds like you already kinda know what you might benefit from.

Alclad Casing uses less aluminum but costs copper.
Look through your factory plan and see if you need copper somewhere up ahead. If not, you probably have a pretty generous budget to spend on Alclad Casings

[oblique hollow]

Still sounds horrid for large amounts

Btw, fluid cars are on par with regular cars if you consider the cars that transport back the empty canisters

[gloomy shoal]

Eeeeh
I haven't hit a problem with it yet and I don't expect to anytime soon so
And no, I just sink empty cans if I can't do anything on-site with them lmao

[oblique hollow]

Fair enough

[gloomy shoal]

Something about my plans tending to involve making cartoonish amounts of plastic and also fuel, so I have just about infinite canisters forever

[wind spade]

you need to tell us what do you mean by "efficient" 🙂

[heady anchor]

ah neverminded that's word, i think that i know what i will do for now, thx for opinions.

[cerulean stratus]

Is 10 per min a good amount of hmf to have for the whole game?

[amber umbra]

@cerulean stratus Yes

[cerulean stratus]

Makes sense
Would you say it's worth to make them all in the same place?

[amber umbra]

The way you design your factories gets very unconstrained at that part of the game so there’s no right or wrong way. I did HMF in one scalable factory with drone export.

[cerulean stratus]

yeah it's how I ended up doing too

I mean, it makes sense for it to be in one spot. The chain is kinda complicated

You don't want to do it multiple times

[amber umbra]

Well with alts you can make HMF from just iron, limestone. And if you’re building it in a modular way (like 10 repeated units for one factory) then building it in multiple places isn’t different from all in one place.

[cerulean stratus]

I was doing heavy flexible frame and then realized I needed FIFTY MODULAR FRAMES

PER MINUTE

[lapis jetty]

i got bored and didnt want to work on a large project so now im remaking my basic iron production is this excessive (i still need reinforced plates and modular frames)

[cerulean stratus]

why you make so little

[lapis jetty]

Dam

[cerulean stratus]

[lapis jetty]

i thought i was making too much

[cerulean stratus]

it depends

it depends what the purpose of what you're making is

dedicate 1-2 machines for storage, and the rest goes for other machines

also, you could be making way more with the alloy recipes

[lapis jetty]

out of bordom mostly i was already making more than i needed

[cerulean stratus]

nah it is fine

[gloomy shoal]

Question: Is there any distinct throughput difference between track roundabouts and full intersections?

[cerulean stratus]

you'll be needing a lot of rips and modular frames, so it's ok to make more than you need

and it's a great feeling when you can say "I'll just use the ones I made extra"

[amber umbra]

@gloomy shoal Different intersection types have significant throughput differences (scaling of like 3x throughput maybe). The real question is if scaling the intersection throughput is worth the effort compared to just using multiple separate rail lines or compressing the items by processing them first. 3D nature of Satisfactory lets you always add parallel tracks.

The high throughput intersections tend to be significantly larger and require a lot of stations to make use of the throughput.

[gloomy shoal]

True enough I suppose
Mostly I ask since I want to redesign my usual rail layout, and I figure I should try to use better intersections if I can help it.

Is there a good, comprehensive Satisfactory rail guide I can consult somewhere?

[amber umbra]

There’s some info on Reddit, YouTube but no definitive one. Satisfactory has a few different ways to set up trains making it bit harder to have good guides.

You’ll want to test your setup at small scale to make sure it works first.

[gloomy shoal]

Hmmm
I'd appreciate links if possible, since the absolute best I was able to find were either bare-beginner-basics, or factorio guides that seemed vaguely applicable

[lapis jetty]

i have made spaghetti

[gloomy shoal]

I do enjoy feeding several pipes clipped inside eachother, saves a lot of space

[cerulean stratus]

I'm starting to see a pattern with parts that you want to distribute and parts you want other parts to come to

• Things with complex chains, you just want to do in one spot and then distribute
• High throughput things like screws, liquids and gases, you don't want to distribute, with some exceptions like drone fuel

Another interesting variable is about the machines. If it's something like modular frames that requires a lot of machines, you might want to to do it all in one place because otherwise it will occupy a lot of your factory.
Meanwhile screws can be made easily on the spot.
And then there's polymer resin, where instead of making a refinery at .5% you might want to just make it once and then distribute throughout the factory

[amber umbra]

@gloomy shoal I used “toaster gaming youtube satisfactory trains” set of videos for how to build track, train basics. There’s different styles for the train schedules from there.

I like having trains, stations only carry a single item type and only move when full/empty using “train full/empty OR 10,000 s” leave condition.

I do a basic two lane rails with single headed trains ala irl roads.

[lapis jetty]

not the way i have done it

[gloomy shoal]

Ahhh
Tbh a substantial factor in my logistics network boils down to the autism instinct to have several trains circling the map at all times

[amber umbra]

And I use just t-junctions for intersections.

[lapis jetty]

i need to make the modular frame part of my factory but i also need sleep

[amber umbra]

Some people just have a smaller circle of track with all trains doing the full loop for each route with the stations as “sidings” off the loop. Doesn’t scale in throughput as well but has smaller track, station throughout.

[gloomy shoal]

I can see the appeal in that method, and I sort of do that?

In my case though, it's more of putting a giant ring around the entire map and cutting rail lines inward to reach points of interest

[amber umbra]

Is the ring a single track or double track?

But a lot of people that enjoy trains have a bunch of experience from other games like Factorio, etc. Makes it hard to explain well almost. You really just have to try stuff a while to understand concepts. Just words don’t transfer the info well.

[opaque quartz]

I built my rail network pretty organically. starting with where I needed point-to-point connections and then expanding out from there. but I always did two rails (right-hand drive since i'm an uncultured american), and I always built the stations on a bypass connecting to the "main line" so that the network could be easily extended

[gloomy shoal]

Single-track per direction, at least for the first save I employed that idea on
Part of the thinking was that as more routes form, they'd naturally connect onto eachother as I go, so important routes would get faster over time but anywhere can get to anywhere else if it has to

[vapid gorge]

Roundabouts are the worst, turbine are the best

But either way you are incredibly unlikely to have so many trains in your world that it impacts traffic enough to matter

[amber umbra]

Best in throughput metric. Space metric people often care about.

[vapid gorge]

They were only asking about traffic I believe

[gloomy shoal]

You underestimate my insistence upon needlessly long trains (8-12 car trains) running not nearly enough items to justify that much train

[amber umbra]

Just being pedantic about indicating the metric. Carry on 👍

[vapid gorge]

You’d need many MANY trains on the line

So many that either you’re the worst at planning logistics ahead in the entire world, or your actual goal is to just fill your works with empty trains for looks

[amber umbra]

Technically if people are using inefficient schedule styles the throughput could matter relatively easily, but no matter the intersection you use you have to scale properly for your rail throughput.

Can also have inefficient placement of factories routing trains through the same intersection repeatedly also leading to an intersection bottleneck.

[vapid gorge]

Eh, as long as the trains aren’t sitting in the intersection waiting to get into a factory you’re probably fine.

And if that’s the case unlikely any junction will save you

[amber umbra]

Yea. Generally by the time you need to worry about intersection throughput you’ll be experienced enough to realize the issue.

Much more a thing in Factorio where scaling up factories is so much faster with bots, etc.

[vapid gorge]

Junctions are one of those things that, in almost all situations, it doesn’t matter which you use, unless you’re also doing something so criminal that no junctions type will save you

[amber umbra]

Eh, but repeating above for me

It’s like an experienced person saying screw throughput is trivial. It is trivial, if you do the things that make it trivial.

[tawdry blade]

Thats kind of ass tbh since more wagons mean you need more pulling power to scale any height. Would just use 2-3 trains with 4 cargo and one locomotive, and set up proper signals. Btw, loop or bi directional setup?

[gloomy shoal]

Loop, I feel like if I had to wrestle bidirectional trains into functionality I would genuinely keel over and perish on the spot

And yeah, I know my giant trains are bad for logistics, it's an intentional aesthetic choice I am making because I want to see long-ass trains going around and I don't think anyone else does more than 2-3 cars normally

[outer vale]

fellow long train enthusiast

[cerulean stratus]

Thoughts on sushi trains?

[amber umbra]

If your goal is getting a working, robust train system, nah. If you want a for fun challenge, sure.

[vapid gorge]

Just have buffer , sorter, buffer+ sink after

[vapid gorge]

They’re fine for logistics, don’t listen to them.

Fewer trains on a line is better overall traffic

[amber umbra]

Definitely get good at just belt sushi before doing train sushi is my thought. Sushi is fun. Just not the way I recommend for people asking questions on how they should do something.

[vapid gorge]

In fact for long trips you often need multiple cars just to move a single belt of items

[amber umbra]

Having a lot of single rail bi-directional at multiple heights sounds cool.

[cerulean stratus]

Oh yeah, if the train is sushi it can't be load balanced because the stations can only either take or give

So if you want to use the filter the cart must be mixed

[tawdry blade]

second station, with a B-line to avoid obstructing the primary rail

[gloomy shoal]

Can confirm sushi is indeed fun, but yeah it is very easy to fuck it up so make sure you Know What You're Doing With It first

I only tend to do mixed car contents if it's either a train I expect not to fill or it's a return train going into storage

Although honestly, "Return train going into storage" has caused me severe grief in the part where I need to unload all that crap

[cerulean stratus]

I'm kinda sad depot made the storage obsolete

[gloomy shoal]

yeahhhhh
I was so hyped for making a 1.0 save with a massive involved storage room, but the dimensional depot kinda kaiboshed the whole operation

Granted it's still nice to have a storage room to an extent (Looks at concrete and steel beam in particular) or if you keep the depot low-level but it just isn't the same sort of experience

[tawdry blade]

Coming from DSP, we had to work very hard to emulate some kind of "depot" mechanic... with intersteallar logistics.
Im glad satisfactory offered a "less tedium" option.

[cerulean stratus]

Kinstruction made a great video about using drones to get stuff from storage delivered to you, using priority switches and drones and packaged water to make only the right belts flow

It was the coolest thing I've found in this game, and it was ruined

[gloomy shoal]

It's not like it's entirely useless (refer to commeent about steel beam and concrete) but it's definitely become a niche trick

[pastel obsidian]

Having a storage room can be a sort of flex

[gloomy shoal]

I feel like there's better projects to flex with though, like my previously-mentioned intent to make 60/min of every space elevator part

[cerulean stratus]

For me satisfactory is more about trying to build the most efficient factory.

One that's easy to expand, and doing so doesn't put in jeopardy previous things that were working well.

[vapid gorge]

That’s probably physically impossible

[cerulean stratus]

Bonus points of it's walkable

[vapid gorge]

Either through resource limitations or your computer literally catching fire

[gloomy shoal]

Oh it's extremely stupid and not even marginally worth it but I fully believe it's possible if you manage it right

The only reason I haven't doublechecked the maths myself yet is because I still haven't played up to tier 9 yet because I keep getting distracted and want to do all that semi-blind

[vapid gorge]

No I mean it literally. No consumer grade hardware can manage all the resources on the map being processed like that. And if you aren’t limited by resources, you’re going to be stopped by your cpu before you reach it

[gloomy shoal]

Ah
Yeah I suppose that would be a problem huh

[vapid gorge]

Unless you got access to corporate level computer systems that costs tens of thousands or running games on a university’s super computer, yes 🙂

[thorny root]

Still working on tuning the alt recipe choices.

[manic viper]

How would you balance 7 outputs onto 2 belts?

[wind spade]

I wouldn't, I would merge it in a way that next step has as much as you need

[manic viper]

I decided to make it simpler by increasing the size

[rigid ermine]

What i do for something like this is have it all go into one input. Then use priority splitter and set the one that needs the most items to highest priority

If you make the same amount of input as is needed for the total of the 2 belts this works well just takes a bit to fill

[cinder silo]

Sorry about the proper slow response, assuming all seven are equal, feed six into two mergers, have the seventh split into two, and merge them into the merged lines to leave you with the two desired outputs.

[restive mantle]

treat it like an 8 to 2 balancer

peep the extremely shit artwork but i think this is an acceptable way

[vapid gorge]

that is an overly complex merge

[restive mantle]

yeah theres definitely a way to do it simpler

[outer vale]

this also assumes you can fit everything onto that one middle belt

[vapid gorge]

or just

[restive mantle]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

their initial diagram suggests they can

[restive mantle]

i prefer this output anyway when dealing with crafters

makes life easy

[vapid gorge]

I don't see how , but you do you 🙂

[outer vale]

indeed, but not the original asker's question. So this'd apply to all of these drawings

[vapid gorge]

oh, this was about the thing hours ago?

[cinder silo]

My fault, I was both scrolled up and answered like 8 hours late.

[frosty owl]

How dare you fall into Discord's oldest trap?

[cinder silo]

Hah 😜

[white bloom]

@restive mantle @vapid gorge unless you want to manage behavior in the event the output belt stalls, the structure of a merger tree is completely irrelevant. That's because as long as the output belt at the root flows freely, all a merger in the tree does is add the flows of its leaves - and addition is associative and commutative. (a+b)+(c+d) = ((a+b)+c)+d = b+((a+d)+c) etc. etc.
All you have to do to minimize the number of mergers used in such a tree is ensure that at most one merger in the tree has two rather than three inputs. The total number of mergers used is then simply floor[numinputs/2].

For stalling outputs it's a whole different story, so if that was the context of the discussion sorry for interjecting, but if the belts are supposed to flow freely then the above is all there is to it and layout and structure of the tree is a purely cosmetic affair.

introducing a splitter even though all its outputs are just merged again downstream is a complete waste that does nothing to the behavior of the merger tree under free flowing conditions except artificially inflate the splitter/merger count.

[edgy leaf]

how bad are signs nowadays with/without lumen?

[vapid gorge]

still a hit if you have a lot of them and not a great rig

[edgy leaf]

naw, sad. guess ill stick with darkness then

[civic bronze]

#screenshots message

[edgy leaf]

damn

global illumination dark?

[civic bronze]

Just fog turned off, at night in cliff biome

Not sure if fog off did something tho, i was looking at space elevator

[restive mantle]

i like this perspective on it, it was informative!

[shadow stone]

@vapid gorge

oh soz its taking a sec

[vapid gorge]

you don't have a train station, just platforms

[shadow stone]

No i do u just cant see it

[vapid gorge]

it should look like this

[shadow stone]

Platformssss ahhhhh

[vapid gorge]

overhead shot then

[shadow stone]

wait what

[vapid gorge]

from above

[shadow stone]

oh how

[vapid gorge]

foundations, ladders, ramps

[vapid gorge]

yeah it's facing the wrong way,. As I've said. Five times

you can only put platforms behind a station

[shadow stone]

what

[shadow stone]

But then how does my train go backwards

wait no im bugging

[shadow stone]

But the problem is my converry belt isnt going inside

[vapid gorge]

Build two engines on your train

Yes because your platforms are not connected behind the station

[shadow stone]

what

[vapid gorge]

the train will look like this <---->

2 engines, each facing a dif way

[shadow stone]

bruh nono i mean my convery

my belt is shooting items into the station and the items wont go inside

[vapid gorge]

Your conveyors aren't workign because your station is laid out wrong

[shadow stone]

ah

[vapid gorge]

this is what I'm trying to fix

[shadow stone]

my bad

[vapid gorge]

did you think I was just saying random crap to you?

your station should be connected like this

your train will have 2 engines, 1 on each end, each facing a different direction

<------> like this. The > are engines, the - are cars

[shadow stone]

ok so ive done the trains and i got one station facing one way and the other faces the opposite way is that right

[vapid gorge]

the station front has to be facing the direction the train in coming into it

it sounds right, I can't confirm w/o pictures though. Try it out

[shadow stone]

bruh

[shadow stone]

how is it unreachable what the heck

[vapid gorge]

lots of over head shots of both stations and your train

properly overhead. Don't be lazy

[shadow stone]

bro thinks hes the materials im trynna transport

[shadow stone]

howwww

[vapid gorge]

ladders
ramps.
foundations

I'm going to bed though someone else will have to help

[shadow stone]

Do i want it like this for both sides?

[vapid gorge]

yes

[shadow stone]

ah....

[vapid gorge]

because stations are broken the way you had them before

[shadow stone]

bruhhhhhhhhh

Finally its fixed whoops

@vapid gorge Thanks

[lapis jetty]

I Mafde a basic iron production through the use of spaghetti

it also has copper stuff

now im adding concrete

[opal hill]

What kind of oil power plant setup are ya'll usually going for when you first unlock them oil power plants?

I'd love to go heavy oil residue with diluted fuel but thats off the table till blenders 😢

[outer vale]

diluted packaged fuel is available not much longer after default oil

[delicate yew]

Coal Gens - 12 * 15m = 180m / 2 = 90m (6 on either side using a manifold on each side to distribute the coal)
Mk1 Miners - 3 * 60m = 180m (I split one 60m into two 30m, then merge each of those with a 60m from the other two miners to make two 90m lines on mk2 belts)

I've manually filled up the remaining coal gens to 100, so now the belts should be able to keep up even on a manifold system?

Does it sound like there are any issues here?

[oblique hollow]

what about the water

[delicate yew]

I'm using 6 water pumps (3 for each side) at 75% each to pump water

[oblique hollow]

thats 6, so works out.
i see no issues here

[opal hill]

Uh...damn i didnt know that! Its quite a bit less efficient due to packing and unpacking but it should still be quite a bit better than just oil to fuel, right?

[oblique hollow]

a LOT better than oil to fuel

and the small efficiency "loss" due to packaging is just a bit of power

but its close enough to regular diluted fuel

[delicate yew]

(6*45)/(3*120)*100 = 75%
My math for the water pumps

[opal hill]

Is that the go to way when going ito oil power production or is there something else im missing?

[oblique hollow]

heavy oil residue is king/queen of oil

if you have the alt for it, good.
else, use the default rubber recipe

default rubber + diluted (or diluted packaged) fuel is already twice as efficient as the oil to fuel recipe

[opal hill]

So basically:
Heavy oil residue -> (packed) diluted fuel -> turbofuel?

[oblique hollow]

if you also want turbo, sure

though the extra work for turbo when starting into oil is, imo, not worth it

[opal hill]

Alright!
Thanks for the help 😊

Last playthrough i just completely missed the diluted fuel and made all of it via turbofuel which was okay but not really that efficient lol

[opal locust]

In Satisfactory Tools, Is there a way to tell the planner to not recycle waste water?

Simply leave it as an additional output?

[dusky dust]

Hmm, a good question. I suspect even if you have the water as an output it'll probably still recycle

The solver there likes to be optimal with respect to resources

[opal locust]

Because I'm still working on my drone fuel depot and decided to go with batteries

[dusky dust]

(Though maybe there's a way that I haven't thought of)

[opal locust]

and someone gave me the idea that with sloppy alumina + pure aluminum ingots, and the default battery recipe, you create the exact amount of waste water needed for the sulphuric acid.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, the "sloppy" loop is a lot of fun like that

[opal locust]

So I guess the better question is, can I tell Satisfactory Tools where I want recycled water to go?

[dusky dust]

What's the problem with letting it recycle, then? You get a nice closed system once you prime it

I generally recommend having it cycle in a nice little closed loop, btw, rather than manifolding it all

[opal locust]

This is what I'm getting

the battery and aluminum scrap steps are producing exactly the 150 water/min the blenders need for sulphuric acid

but the planner is telling it to recycle the water elsewhere

[dusky dust]

Oh wait, pff

Sorry, I was thinking Instant Scrap

[proven parrot]

Hol on do they still show refineries as the old model? With the hexagonal thing

[proven parrot]

On scim

[opal locust]

you can even see it on the full chart, the blenders need 150 water, I'm producing 150 waste water, why doesn't the planner send the waste water to the blenders?

[outer vale]

because they're all equally valid as far as it's concerned. Sometimes you just have to do those adjustments mentally

you might be able to break it down, add an explicit Water output to one subplan

[opal locust]

How do I connect plans together?

[outer vale]

there's nothing built-in for that

you can just make two plans, carve it out manually

eg

[dusky dust]

So yeah, in situations like that, it's honestly sort of just an "implementation detail" kind of thing. The solver will show you where it decided to do the recycling, but you'd probably just have to switch it around instead while you build

Agree the synergy in that particular case is very tasty and I'd probably want to do it as you're proposing too. :D

Possibly a point in favor of the grapher-what-won't-be-named since I assume that lets you build all the connections manually instead of "solving" it

sftools is definitely more of a "solve this linear programming problem for me" as opposed to the nuts+bolts of building a factory

(see also: not suggesting any specific methods of resource extraction, etc)

[opal locust]

even when I intentionally add the amount of water the aluminum casing step is producing, the planner can't figure out to put it all in the sulphuric acid refineries

[outer vale]

as an aside, if you do loop 'em like that, you'll probably have to manually inject some water into that part to get it up and running, since that looks like a circular dependency

[harsh schooner]

did u set the alternate recipe or whatever is needed for?

[dusky dust]

It's basically just that the solver isn't designed to find those kinds of synergies. It's presumably just putting the water into whatever machine comes "first" via the internal solving routines

[opal locust]

it's specifically sloppy alumina, pure ingots, default battery

So it's a case of "my math is right, the planner is just being dumb"?

[mossy sedge]

whats web use you?

[dusky dust]

As another "see also:" not telling you what belts to use, how many banks of machines you might need, suggesting 1:1 loops, and all that. It's just got a pool of "Resource X" and it'll apply it to whatever comes "first" in its internal structures

[mossy sedge]

and you whats pag use you

[mossy sedge]

for this

[opal locust]

Satisfactory Tools

[proven parrot]

Satisfactory tools

[mossy sedge]

oh ._.

this section?

XD ok thx,

we saved my life XD yeah

bye

[dusky dust]

If you want to consider "the solver was never designed to do the specific thing you want in this case" to be "dumb," then I guess so

Keep in mind that exact 1:1 relationships like that are overall extraordinarily rare

[opal locust]

okay to put it more positively, I outsmarted the planner

[dusky dust]

In nearly all cases you're gonna have systems where it's a mix of recycled + "fresh," and what would be the recommended thing to do in that situation?

In order for it to do what you want, it'd have to have an extra step where it specifically looks at the aggregate rate of production versus the individual rate of consumption and then attach things that way if it finds them

[opal locust]

I had to figure out the hard way that mixing fresh and waste water is not easy.

[dusky dust]

Which, y'know, would presumably be possible, but whether it's worth the development time is another story. :)

[opal locust]

this setup ignores that and uses the waste water in a seperate cyclical loop

[dusky dust]

If you combine 'em in the same pipes, yeah. Using a separate bank of machines and keeping the two technically totally separate is pretty trivial, at least, once you're used to that

[oblique hollow]

the planner doesnt try to be very smart about "oh the numbers exactly match up here"
if it has multiple choices, it picks the first one it has in its list

[opal locust]

yeah that makes sense, I noticed it was defaulting to the earliest in the chain where water is needed

"recycle the water here so less water extractors are needed"

[dusky dust]

But in general, yeah: one potentially valid criticism of sftools is that it doesn't have a mechanism to tweak that kind of stuff to suit the specifics of how you want to implement it

[dusky dust]

Well, no matter how you handle the "waste" water, you will need to input the same amount of fresh water

Changing where you recycle the water doesn't have an impact on how much the total system needs

[oblique hollow]

you can always change the routing of items and the exact way you set up machines

all tools does is give you numbers

[dusky dust]

Yeah, as I say, it sort of intentionally leaves all implementation details up to the player

[opal locust]

pardon the 5 minutes in MSPaint but this was the plan

[outer vale]

as long as all the numbers add up, go for it

I did spend some time trying to get a plan routing the nice way, but it was having none of it

[oblique hollow]

im gonna try to do a deep dive on ore alchemy soon probably

and find out all neat combos

also, kinda wild that it only takes 34 max oc constructors and thus 34 sloops to fully process all SAM in the world into RSAM

[outer vale]

this may be because I was confused over the actual goal... just added Alumina Solution as a direct input and I think this is what we were looking for?

battery and scrap water being used for sulphuric acid

[delicate yew]

What are yall using to make those?
I'm using GIMP lol

[outer vale]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[delicate yew]

oh i see, I thought yall were drawing them out

[fierce ruin]

what kind of fuel do i put in this boy

thus?

[wind zinc]

neither.

use whatery fuel !

[opaque quartz]

click on the fuel icon in the console of the generator itself to see what fuel it can take

[opal locust]

this is what I came up with for my battery factory

[outer vale]

looks neater than mine

[opal locust]

initial water and bauxite to make sloppy alumina, that solution gets fed into a second refinery and the blenders. the second refinery makes scrap which is smelted into pure ingots and turned into casings to go into the blenders. the set of 3 refineries are making the sulphuric acid to go into the blenders. lastly the water byproduct from the scrap refinery and blenders is being recycled into the sulphuric acid refineries keeping the fresh water and waste water entirely seperate.

Now I just need to belt the bauxite/coal/sulfur here, and figure out space for battery storage/sinking/drone ports.

I figure since I'll need to slowly bring it online 1 acid refinery+blender at a time. Once I'm making enough water byproduct from a blender to fuel the second acid refinery I'll boot it up and so on.

[outer vale]

you could also chuck some sloops in temporarily

[opal locust]

or if I really wanted to, temporarily hook those water extractors into the waste water loop to give it an initial push of water.

I've got 2 down there underclocked to 200, 100% is 240, that's an extra 40 water I could give it at the start for a boost.

as much as I want to finish this right now, it'll have to wait for later in the day.

[delicate yew]

I have 3 foundries
Underclocked to take in 40 iron/coal a min

I have 2 iron miners producing 60/m each for a total of 120
I have 1 coal miner producing 120/m

I have two manifold systems to feed in the iron/coal respectively

The two iron belts merge into a mk2 lift (120/m) and then immediately split onto 2 mk1 (60/m) belts and use mk1 (60/m) belts and lifts the rest of the way

the coal is on a mk2 belt, and then splits into 2 mk1 belts and is mk1 belts the whole way

I can't figure out why the foundries are only working at 75% even though I have them underclocked to take in the matching amount of ore I am producing

I've just upgraded the rest to mk2 and now its at 100%
but I can't understand why the mk1 belts werent getting it 100% even though the belt speed was above the intake amount

ok i think i understand why now
I need the throughput to match the whole way through
the belts can be downgraded going into the foundry if needed
but the whole way through the manifold needs to match the the input of them all combined

because if I go down to 60m belt the second one will only ever get 30m max

[outer vale]

if one of the belts needs to carry 80/min for 2 foundries, and you only used a mk1, then yes

[delicate yew]

yeah i overlooked that part

just talking it out here by myself helped me understand lol

[opaque token]

good lord

i can see how it is experimental

[wind spade]

SCIM was never good in making layouts

[dusky dust]

It's better if you flip it to "logical" mode (or whatever they call it) where it's not trying to show you every single splitter + belt

(Though yeah, I've never been fond of its layouts regardless)

[opaque token]

but then i can't see the amount of miners i need and stuff

like set it to Mk2

[dusky dust]

The amount of miners you need depend on what nodes you have available anyway

Bit of personal preference, but I'd personally rather just be told "you need to find 1000/min Iron" and then it's up to me to find a spot on the map that's got that

Which could end up coming from a collection of pure/normal/impure nodes depending on what's around and convenient

Also IMO the "physical" view does stuff with splitters/mergers which would be super weird/awkward when building in-game; you're gonna spend ages trying to apply those graphs to the "real world" anyway; figuring out what nodes to tap would be simpler in comparison

[opaque token]

fair

[vapid carbon]

What have I done wrong? Why is the final output have lots of gaps? My miner is producing 60 so 30 for each smelter, must be therefore coming back into 60. So if I split that three ways it should be 20? But then the final product is not a full belt like the miner and smelter output belts

[thorn trail]

looks like you are making iron plates, which are 30 ingots -> 20 plates, not 20 ingots -> 20 plates

[vapid carbon]

Oh of course I was looking at this all wrong

So basically I'll never have a full belt and I should have two constructures, not three

(Never with a starting input of 60 at least)

Thank you

[thorn trail]

that would be a good solution, yes.

[vapid carbon]

This is my first time playing and I missed that bit of logic in my head

[sage nexus]

I'm looking to automate rotors with this iron and copper node, I have two alternate recipes to craft steel pipes from iron and to craft rotors from steel pipes and wiring but I'm wondering if I should just smelt the resources here and bring them to another location or if I should try to do it all here. I have another factory right next to it crafting reinforced plates so I was hoping to do it around here and transport the final result altogether but I'm not too sure how I should go about smelting both resources and getting them close enough together to funnel into assemblers

[vapid gorge]

either works. The more you process a thing in one spot though the fewer parts per min you need to move

[sage nexus]

I suppose, I'll mess around building it here then. thanks!

[opal locust]

Update: we have Batteries! the math worked perfectly!

60 Batteries/Minute

[opaque quartz]

Nice work!

[pastel obsidian]

Congratulations

[opaque quartz]

side quest completed

[opal locust]

once the dimensional storage fills up, I'll be able to fuel my drones for probably the rest of the game

[pastel obsidian]

Depends on how many drones you have....

[opaque quartz]

You just need a stash of batteries in the depot to do the initial fuel load for your remote stations to make one trip to fetch from the battery factory

Probably half a stack of batteries, depending on distance? Maybe less?

[pastel obsidian]

I normally name drone ports that have access to fuel with a letter at the end to make sure the drone has access to fuel when setting the schedule

[opaque quartz]

Single drone port on the supply side that doesn’t have a drone homed on it. All remote stations act as “fetchers”

Pull, rather than push

Allows you to just supply and buffer a single fueling station for any number of remote drone networks

[opal locust]

Where I set it up, and how far I had to go to get it powered

[opaque quartz]

Crater lakes are one of the cooler spots on the map IMHO

I love the design of this world so much. So many great little touches

[sand epoch]

Going to need FAR more than 60pm...

[opal locust]

Look that's all I could do with that sulfur node

[grizzled isle]

id rather use satisfactory tools instead for layouts

[opal locust]

Let me have this W please

[sand epoch]

Id suggest using rocket fuel for drones anyway...

[opal locust]

This is just to make sure I have enough fuel for drones to get me to that point

[opaque quartz]

Batteries are fine for drones. Same top speed as rocket fuel, in fact

[pastel obsidian]

It's a big w

Congratulations

[opal locust]

It honestly wasn't that hard once I realized the math lined up perfectly

[pastel obsidian]

You have unlocked drones it's a big step in opening up logistics for everyone

[wind spade]

@modest basalt pick any that you want, you can get all alts anyway and there's no bad choice.
If you don't know, just flip a coin or keep it for later

[paper flame]

Can someone explain how the recycled rubber/plastic loop works please? And/or show me a setup of the loop? Thank you 🙂

[pastel obsidian]

sure

Step 1 is to make rubber step 2 is to use that rubber to make plastic

step 3 is to split some of that plastic back to make rubber

[paper flame]

In that image it looks like I'm only making plastic and no rubber to save?

[pastel obsidian]

yes

you can do the opposite to make rubber

[paper flame]

I thought the loop increased the rubber and plastic outputs each loop?

[pastel obsidian]

Its best to keep it seperate

[wind spade]

it essentially converts fuel to plastic/rubber

[paper flame]

So in this system the limiting factor is fuel produced right?

[pastel obsidian]

yes

1 fuel = 1 rubber or plastic

[paper flame]

Gotcha. Thank you frens 🙂

[paper flame]

What if I want to add polymer resin to this because of the Heavy Oil Residue recipe?

[pastel obsidian]

go for it

the ratios just work out really well with it being 1:2

[wind spade]

yeah convert it with residual rubber

[civic bronze]

Its kinda weird the way they made residual rubber superior to residual plastic

[wind spade]

well "superior" only in terms of conversion to plubber

but not in e.g. usage of water

[proven pawn]

is there other alt recipies for crystal occilators?
its hard to automate radio control unit because of quartz

[fallow siren]

insulated alt

it use rubber but cheaper quartz cost

[proven pawn]

ooo ok

oooou this looks fancy

is it any better than the base recipe

[outer vale]

as with all alts, it's about the tradeoffs, there is no "better"

[zealous coral]

if you are using lot of silica also it is worth to try implement quartz purification. Very good resource efficiency, but hard to implement.

[wind spade]

depends how you define "better" 🙂

[zealous coral]

We can evaluate recipes based on three main factors.

1. Total number of resources used.

2. Amount of energy needed

3. Amount of space needed and complexity in implementation

An additional factor that influences the choice of recipe is the availability of resources where you are building.
and lastly, (for many the most important), the fun from using particular recipe 🙂

[wind spade]

the problem with this is that you can't evaluate recipe in vacuum (well you can, but you would get poinltess results)

you need to evaluate recipe paths (from ore to finished product)

[zealous coral]

yes but if you set your priorities you can evaluate the whole chain of production that way, The tool I'm using for planning is doing that

[wind spade]

I know you can (in fact I made one of the tools that does that)

I'm just saying that recipe on itself doesn't "save" anything or isn't "more resource efficient", you always need to look at the whole chain

[proven pawn]

OMGOMGOMG i got the thing, the best thing

[zealous coral]

here is the sample of what I'm talking about

it is taking into account whole production chain

[wind spade]

I doubt it has taken all options into considerations

even if you exclude SAM conversion

[proven pawn]

wtf ive been gettign every other alt recipe except pure aluminum ingot

[zealous coral]

It is taking, I wrote the code myself. However I'm not fully satisfy how it calculate backup product value

[wind spade]

I don't see all the different paths for iron plates

[zealous coral]

It is caluclating the best recipe base on your settings, and use that one for plates to calculate the value for nitric acid

[wind spade]

I don't think you can assign a value to a recipe 🤔 or to an item

You need to calculate the whole thing at the same time

[zealous coral]

here, i change the importance of required space and now it is using oil to make coated plates for acid

I'm going to add user lock for recipes, but for now i use my time to just play the game

[vapid gorge]

this misses the most important factors in values of recipes

I'd argue these are tertiary in value

or at least very subjective

[zealous coral]

What factor it missing?

[vapid gorge]

What the local resources are
what other items you're making
what volumes all of the items youre using
all your other availabe recipes that affect synergy and/or value in simplifying processes

this is why ranking recipes is balls at best, and counter productive to people at worst because they'll just go 'this recipe is rated high, I'll use this without thinking'

[zealous coral]

All this is taken into consideration, you can set the amount of resources you got available

[vapid gorge]

so you have a variable recipe ranking system?

[zealous coral]

ooo you are speaking about just this one message, then you are right all this what you wrote metters

however for volume you can adjust it somekind with overclocking

[vapid gorge]

volume as in affecting how intense a damance you'll have on the resources

[zealous coral]

and yes i got something like variable recipe ranking system, as well as actual factory planner

[vapid gorge]

for example a lot of people use caterium computer and cat circuit boards together, but if you have high volume computer output you might want to do silica cb and caterium comps

to spread the resource demand

is this just to have an automatic value setting on recipes?

[zealous coral]

Yes, you are right, I for example use a lot of high speed connectors, even they are not very effective in case of resources, but i have a lot of silica that i want to utilize

[torn plaza]

that "I want" is the rub

tools won't tell you what you want, you tell it what you want

[zealous coral]

That is pretty obvious statement

[pastel obsidian]

that would be https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

Steam

Satisfactory Modeler

Model your Satisfactory builds. Set up your machines however you like, adding optional limits to the number of any of those machines and the tool will calculate how the parts will flow and how many of each machine type are getting used.

This does advanced calculations that no other Satisfactory planning tool can do, including figuring out how sp…

▶ Play video

different tools approach the same problem differently

[zealous coral]

I have my own tool,

my computer parts factory plan

[pastel obsidian]

that looks sick

have you found out which resource is a bottle neck just out of sheer curiosity

[zealous coral]

I chose a placement for my factory, checked what i can gather there and then tried to build as much as i can from it.
I plan to build 9 ballistic warp drives, 24 AI servers and 60 bio sculptors

this are resources i use

Energy is not written there, I produce around 500GW

[silent shoal]

Why do I get a message every time I load the map that the power is out, but everything works fine?

[outer vale]

maybe you have another grid that is busted

[restive sparrow]

Know if there are any tools that allow you to enter max belt capacity and it shows you how to split up your machines to match belt speeds? I can do this manually but it can be tedious as I constantly forget the input and output rates and have to keep checking in the middle of planning

[plucky tusk]

signs

put all the rates on signs

[smoky aurora]

or write it down on paper ,.. 😄

sooooo 19th century

[minor island]

Ok, so just to check my sanity on my fluid usage/production rates.... When I look at teh Fuel Power Plant, it says (normally clocked) 1 cubic meter of gas usage, 20 per minute....so 20 cubic meters of fuel per miunte, correct so far? And if I have a refinery that is producing 4 cubic meters 40 per minute, that would be 160 cubic meters per minute, still correct? So in theory, if I allow all pipeline to completely fill before start generators, I could run 8 fuel generators off that one refinery???? This is assuming I have ample supply to the refinery so its never waiting for materials to refine. I am calculating all this correctly, am I not?

[thorn bane]

correct

[outer vale]

if I have a refinery that is producing 4 cubic meters 40 per minute, that would be 160 cubic meters per minute, still correct?
no. if it's making 40 per minute it's 40 per minute

no different from things like screws that you did waaaay earlier, that say 4 out and 40/min

[dusky dust]

4 cubic meters 40 per minute, that would be 160 cubic meters per minute nah, as Meindratheal said, it's just 40/min. You don't multiply those numbers together. They relate to each other, but in 99.9% of cases, you just want to look at the per-minute value and use that.

(The other number is sometimes more useful for getting a feel for resource ratios, since the numbers are generally smaller and don't have decimals)

How it works is that the "individual" chunk value -- like where it's producing "4 m³", happens once per cycle. The machine's cycle would be 6 seconds in this case. So every 6 seconds it produces 4 of the item. If you do the math for those two values, that's what works out to 40/min

[minor island]

Wow thats so super confusing

[restive sparrow]

The first number is just telling you how much comes out at a time in a slug, the second number is already doing all of the math for units/minute

[dusky dust]

If you find it confusing, just take the easy route: only ever look at the "per min" numbers and use those. :)

[restive sparrow]

Exactly, the first number is not terribly useful

[minor island]

So the per minute number is a cubic meter? 40 per minute is 40 cubic meters, 60 per minute is 60 cubic meters per min??

[dusky dust]

Ignore the unit entirely

Just think of it as 40/min

[minor island]

That helps

Devs need consistency in their work, some areas show the per minute value as cubic meters, others just show as units. Thats what confused me

[outer vale]

where in game has that inconsistency, out of interest?

[proven parrot]

I don't even notice that

[minor island]

If you look t the Fuel Powered Generator, it show it consomes 1 cubic meter fuel canisters at rate of 20 cubic meters per minute instead of just 20 per minutes. That where I have seen so far

[outer vale]

doesn't the refinery also show m^3 per minute?

[proven parrot]

It dosent consume 1 cubic meter canisters at a rate of 20 cubic meters per second. Tha5 dosent make sense

[outer vale]

can't look at the game right now

[proven parrot]

Ignore the 1 m³

[minor island]

And I need to amend my statement....i feel the devs are doing a FANTASTIC job, I didnt mean to come across as digging

[outer vale]

but yeah, that's just showing the same as a normal recipe - uses 1 m^3 per cycle, and 20 m^3 per minute

[proven parrot]

Ok now I'm confused. Is it the pipes that show arbitrary units or smth?

[zealous coral]

It tells you that to start burning the fuel it needs to have 1 m^3 fuel inside, and the burn rate is 20m^3 per minute

[minor island]

I was told that fluid calculations were going to be the hardest in this game and they are right, but, by going ONLY by the NUMBER listed in the per minute rating, it makes things much simpler. Just have to remeber to use pipes that will support the rate as well

[deft drum]

Yeah, the hardest mechanic has to be IMO Headlift, fluid rate

[outer vale]

only looking at the per-minute number is how you deal with all production, really

the per-cycle numbers aren't particularly important (or even useful) 90% of the time

[thick plank]

Amend that 90 to a 100 and im on board. I dobt really see any use for the ratios

Like im really trying to think hard rn but I dont actually see any use case in those

[outer vale]

handcrafting, and edge cases with sloops

[proven parrot]

Yes

[thick plank]

If you want to calculate using lower numbers your better of just scaling your numbers so they produce 1 product/min and go from there

[proven parrot]

Ahem the slooped ionised fuel

The 1 time that number was usefull

[thick plank]

Ah ok I only used sloops for power enhancement so far, so I cant comment on that

But isnt it just a percentual increase you apply at the end of your production line?

[proven parrot]

So basically the refineries and the normal ionised fuel recipe produce more than 25 (half of 50 which is full capacity for the output fluid buffer in the refinery) so every time it makes a batch. It has to wait for the fuel to drain out and can't run at 100%

[outer vale]

if it did it in smaller, faster cycles then it'd be fine

[thick plank]

Ok thats stupid ngl

[proven parrot]

Yes

[proven parrot]

Yeah but luckily I could still bost it by 50% 3ith 1 loop as it needs 2 sloops for the full 2x. So at least you can do smth with your sloops

[wind spade]

That's correct. It needs 1m3 to start working and uses 20/min, same as every other machine shiws number per cycle and per minute

[thick plank]

Still nor seeing how ratios would be necessary though. Its just that the machiene actually has a different production rate then shown

So youd need more refineries to compensate

[silent shoal]

Can one Drone Port be used to both fill and empty a drone?

[dusky dust]

Yep, a drone will do both load + unload if there are materials to do so

[proven parrot]

No

[dusky dust]

It's convenient for fluid packaging loops 'cause you can use the same drone to send back the empties

[thick plank]

Wdym?

[proven parrot]

Adding more refineries for the ionised fuel with 2 sloops each won't fix the issue

Oh wait mb I confused what you meant

[thick plank]

Dw

[silent shoal]

thx

[proven parrot]

My point was that the number for how big each batch is isn't completely useless

[thick plank]

True. Though I am confused why devs let that size happen

[oblique hollow]

To show you "ionized fuel sucks"

[proven parrot]

I still use it tho

[oblique hollow]

best you can do is only half sloop the refinery

so dont use 2 sloops, use 1

[proven parrot]

Yeah

I upvoted the existing posts on the qa site about that

[thick plank]

Just out of curiosity: what is the percentage increase to power per sloop and what is the increase to production per sloop?

[remote flame]

The dark ion fuel recipe you can push the convertor to 200% clock and 1.5x boost with 1 sloop, making 600/min from one building without a problem

In terms of somersloop effectiveness, it is the best choice for ionized, where 1 sloop translates to an additional ~16,667MW of power generation. By the time you multiply this 10x (10 sloops), you've made ~166,666MW more power, but in total you're making 6000ionized fuel/min, which is 500GW of power. So yes, it's better to sloop the convertors in this case rather than make power augmentors 🙂

Oops made a mistake lemme fix

[proven parrot]

Full sloop means 4x the power consumption and double the production (nothing changes to the input)

[proven parrot]

Oh powergeneration. I never even thought of doing that bcs it seemed ridiculous having so many quantum encoders and shit and I thought it would mostly cancel any power gains

[remote flame]

Ionized for power is just.. it really is not worth it when compared to other options (rocket, uranium, plutonium), and even I have my limits on how many fuel generators I'm prepared to place haha

[fallow siren]

both ionized and ficsonium arent worth if youre going for net positive

tho ficsonium has nice trade off which is no waste byproduct

[thick plank]

So I checked. A ×4 modifier for 2 and a 10% increase for 10 (so imma calculate it as 2% per 2)

So that 2% essentially is equivalent to increasing the output of all your fuels by 2%. So let n be the number of machienes you have producing fuel of any kind (lets just assume your only producing one kind for simplicity). On 200 machienes youd need 400 sommersloops to quadrouple your output. And 400 summersloops increase all power production by 400%, so also quadroupeled. So as long as you have 200 fuel peoducing machienes its more efficient to boost them directly. Am I missing something there?

[wind spade]

afaik ficsonium is net positive

[proven parrot]

Even if its net negative I need to do this and stop procrastinating before its too late bcs I need to explore all parts of the game

[thick plank]

Does that include the boost you would get on your predecessor fuels?

[wind spade]

what boost?

[proven parrot]

You get a boost?

[thick plank]

Oh i thought that was a response, mb

[oblique hollow]

Getting to use plutonium without waste is not a boost, its a choice

The main problem with ionized is that they cant fix it easily because you cant make more fuel from less than 1 power shard

And you also cant fully boost the recipe with somersloops otherwise

[remote flame]

Yep, ficsonium is on average 18% Net positive on power generation (it takes 84% of its generated power just to drive itself)

It is the worst power generation method, but it does get rid of waste.. that's bout it haha
#math-and-meta message

[proven parrot]

Can't they lower the numbers on the recipe?

[oblique hollow]

So you get less fuel?

makes it more expensive

[proven parrot]

No lower the inputs as well

So you just need ton of refineries

[oblique hollow]

Cant have less than 1 power shard

[proven parrot]

Huh?

[oblique hollow]

You want the cost of the power shard to be worth it, so you need to make a lot of fuel from it

[proven parrot]

Oh wait yeah

By powerhsard I thought of overclocking

[oblique hollow]

The recipe uses 1 power shard per production cycle

[proven parrot]

I forgot the recipe since I haven't touched it since I had it running for my jetpack

[oblique hollow]

they would need to increase ionized's energy, but that would change fuel gen usage

[proven parrot]

Yes I see what you mean

Buuuttt

What if. Hear me out. They increased the buffer for the refinery

[oblique hollow]

That would be a universal increase in their buffer size to fix one flawed item

And would mess with every factory

[thick plank]

You know, what if they just added a second fluid output to refineries? Problem solved

[wind spade]

what does output buffer size have to do with anything?

[proven parrot]

Ionised fuel and sloops

[oblique hollow]

It would allow the recipe to run uninterrupted

[proven parrot]

Ik this ridiculous but maybe the refinery just gets a little extra fluid capacity when you select that recipe?

[oblique hollow]

Thats new functionality

Cant have a per recipe buffer size change atm

[proven parrot]

Keep it hidden

[thick plank]

You know what? I have an even better solution. How about this: we no longer make the ionised fuel in a refinery. We do it in a blender and half comes out as packaged?

That way you have twice the buffer

[proven parrot]

Ok idk how the programming works so I thought they can just add some code to change it but ig no

[oblique hollow]

Better idea: you ONLY make it packaged

[proven parrot]

Yes

[thick plank]

Even better idea: you dont do ionized fuel and just spam more dilluted loops

[proven parrot]

And have a stack size that double batch size

[wind spade]

even better idea - do another big rebalance pass and break everyone's saves again

[oblique hollow]

For my rebalance mod i made ionized's recipe not use power shards. its made with shit tons of photonic matter instead

[proven parrot]

What machine? Quantum encoder?

Wait no that dosent make sense

[oblique hollow]

Blender equivalent

[proven parrot]

2 fluids so blender?

[oblique hollow]

Ye

I think it was 240 or 225/min photonic matter

for like 90/min ionized

The main trouble is that you have to live with the fluctuating power demand AND overclocking directly decreases the power output as photonic matter is basically gasseous power

[proven parrot]

But isn't photonic matter and dark residue supposed to be only used in quantum things
Just random thing bcs it feels like the blender shouldn't be able to handle the wha5ever quantum shit happens

[oblique hollow]

Yeah but "ionized fuel" felt justified that it can be rocket fuel + the funny photon gas in a blender

The photonic matter ionizes and energizes the rocket fuel

and rocket fuel is the same kind of matter as those 3 anyway

the pipe shows that it flickers weirdly and whatnot

yet originally its made in a refinery

[proven parrot]

Yeah but it has crazy visuals and lore that it feels like it could melt the blender walls and shit

[oblique hollow]

Meanwhile the pipe carrying it:

[proven parrot]

Ummm

Ok ig my argument is bs

[oblique hollow]

Quantum buildings make sense for "quantum parts" to be made

ionized fuel borders between high tech and quantum

So it gets a pass in my books, same for photonic matter in this one case

[proven parrot]

Ok

[dusky dust]

Probably depends on specific recipes, of course, but I'm pretty sure my own Ficsonium buildout was 34% efficient (120GW gross - 79GW for production => 41GW net)

Though even at 18% it's still net-power-positive. So long as you don't mind the time to build it (and can afford the SAM) it's worth it

Though obvs. it's pretty incremental compared to Uranium + Plutonium

[hasty hamlet]

Stupid Question but does this means i need max 150 Oil or 300 ?

[proven parrot]

300

[dusky dust]

You can check the ingame Codex (o to open the codex, or n for a search bar) to check the recipes for Plastic + Rubber, btw, and check the math yourself. I'm not familiar with SCIM's planner very much, but I'd assume 300.

[proven parrot]

(It also says 2.5 oilextractor)

[dusky dust]

And yeah, don't trust graphs when it comes to resource extraction anyway; it'll always depend on what purity node you're pulling from, etc.

[proven parrot]

Yeah idk why it assumes normal purity for that

[dusky dust]

Well, if a graph decides to try and show you extractions, then it's gotta assume something. IMO it's silly for any online solver to try and guess at extraction specifics, but c'est la vie. :)

[hasty hamlet]

Okay Thanks

[amber edge]

is 60 battery a min enough to feed drone logistics?

how much battery do i want to produce

[proven parrot]

Most questions on sf have the same answer. It depends

[wind spade]

enough to feed drones that need 60/min in total

[proven parrot]

How far are your drone ports, it will say

60 should be enough idk what kind of drone system your using but it should be enough

[silent shoal]

If I put several items into one drone port.
Is there a way to control what will be taken where?
Or will every time a drone lands it empty itself and fill up with what is in the port?

[amber edge]

havent started using drones

[proven parrot]

You can't send a drone on a port to multiple drone ports

[amber edge]

i plan to have drones deliver complex items between factories such as fused frames, oscillators, computers

[silent shoal]

what?

[proven parrot]

You have to place a drone for a drone port and that drone will have that port as a "home" port, and it can only go back and forth between the home port and another port on the map

[amber edge]

Ideally between those three spots see drone icons

[dusky dust]

Basically what AntiJar said. Drones are A->B only. If you need a site that sends material to different places, you need a drone for each one

(Keep in mind that drones only have an internal buffer of 9 stacks anyway; you can do sushi deliveries with them, but you'd have to keep throughputs pretty low in general for a single drone)

[amber edge]

how do i calculate how much batteries would i need

[proven parrot]

Yeah also don't try to send a train load of items through drones (drones are low throughput but less infrastructure to set up type things)

[amber edge]

and whats best fuel for drones

[proven parrot]

You don't. It calculates for you

[dusky dust]

There's no easy way to know that really, but on my own 1.0 save, my drone routes were averaging something like 2.5 batteries/min for battery-fuelled drones

Obviously a lot will depend on the actual length of the routes, but I wouldn't expect the per-min battery cost to be too far out in either direction

[proven parrot]

Depends on what you can make but usually the best one is the lowest Burn time that you can still easily produce

[dusky dust]

"best" is subjective. You can look at the wiki page for Drones to see the various characteristics

!wikisearch drone

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=drone

[amber edge]

I could use rocket fuel instead

[proven parrot]

Yeah it has the fuel types in order of "good" ness

[dusky dust]

Sure; you could use any of the available fuels. :)

[proven parrot]

Uses aluminum tho

Turbo fuel good. If that's too annoying then shit ton of diluted fuel also an option

[dusky dust]

Nah, I'd disagree that it's in order of "good"ness, since that implies that your only metric for "good" is Fuel Value

[amber edge]

i have 2400pM rocket fuel plant

[dusky dust]

Like personally I'm never gonna use fuel rods for drones 'cause I refuse to irradiate areas of my map that I don't have to. For me those fuels are actually bad. :)

[proven parrot]

Ah mb

[dusky dust]

Different metrics for different folks, etc. :)

[amber edge]

will need to produce empty sinks to use up, im recycling nitrogen tanks not wasting it now

[proven parrot]

Ok but finding aluminum for packaging is a whole deal

[amber edge]

meaning i need to upgrade my aluminum factory and make silica to increase output as well, fun

[proven parrot]

But also I think you might run out of space for fuel gens depending on where your building

[amber edge]

have 230 fully overclocked fuel gens laid out

[silent shoal]

For example, can you load a Fluid Tank onto the drone at port A?
And then unload the Fluid Tank at port B, load plastic, and return it to port A?

[amber edge]

could cut some to feed drones with rocket fuel

[proven parrot]

Yes (I think I read that correctly)

[silent shoal]

with one drone?

[proven parrot]

Yes

But you can place 2

One on port A and one on port B

[amber edge]

im leaving some space to make ionized fuel

when i touch phase 5

[oblique hollow]

Heres what they look like btw if you are still interested
(modded, obviously)

[proven parrot]

Ok cool

[vague garnet]

@wind spade you mentioned your maths solver in your satisfactory tools, what branch of maths is that called? I thought it'd be something like optimisation but after asking a maths professor they didn't seem to understand what I was talking about. I'm interested in making my own, but not for the purpose of maths, but I know you're the person whi'd probably know about that.

[wind spade]

linear programming / simplex solver

[vague garnet]

Cheers!

(Also when are you not online)

[wind spade]

when I sleep

[vague garnet]

...Fair played

[thorn bane]

i had simplex solver in my second optimisation class, so he should know it?
its definitely not introduction stuff though, its like gauss elimination but harder

[outer vale]

they'll probably know it if you use those particular words

[vague garnet]

They're not a university or college professor, and I didn't really describe it well. Like what Meindratheal said.

I like the nickname btw

[wind spade]

the nickname is fake news btw

[edgy leaf]

this is still ongoing..?

[wind spade]

"this" is what?

[thorn bane]

yep, until coffestain fixes it
#1352834325305098240 message
#satisfactory message

[cinder pagoda]

any1 have a not so complex motor automation for phase 3?

[urban olive]

i cant tell if its what people are curently talking about but what is the current meta for best fuel power plants?

[outer vale]

meta? pick your fuel type, pick your recipes/material usage, decide if you want to shard the fuel gens

[thorn bane]

rocket fuel is insane

[outer vale]

the main thing would be that all fuel-based power benefits from the Heavy Oil Residue and Diluted [Packaged] Fuel alts

and that ionised fuel is not worth using

between that, there isn't really a "meta" since everyone builds differently

[urban olive]

is blended turbo fuel good

[outer vale]

if you're happy with its resource usage, sure

[thorn bane]

yes

[wind spade]

that depends how you define "good"

[urban olive]

im mainly just asking what is the best way to get the most out of the oil within reason

[outer vale]

IIRC turbo heavy isn't as good if you're really trying to maximise because it can't use Diluted Packaged Fuel, but aside from that, all alts are fine, just different tradeoffs

[thorn bane]

diluted fuel->turbo blend->rocket fuel
imo, depending on how far along you are

[urban olive]

what does rocket fuel do in fuel generators

[outer vale]

power

[urban olive]

i dont think i saw anything on the wiki

[outer vale]

might be using the wrong wiki

[urban olive]

is it just more duration

[wind spade]

whatever you put in fuel gen, you get same power output per fuel gen

[outer vale]

more output (the fuel not the gens), slower burn rate

[wind spade]

the only thing that is different is the fuel energy value, which in turn translates to "how long does it burn"

[urban olive]

haha i was on the wrong wiki

ok thanks

[thorn bane]

its lategame, needs aluminium and nitrogen
but ye same as turbofuel it just uses less per minute

[outer vale]

600 oil could get you 2400 rocket fuel, which would be... 144 GW?

and comes with some compacted coal to boot

[urban olive]

im currently building a 75gw nuclear plant but im getting really bored of making the waste disposal cuz i didnt plan properly and have to automate a bunch of stuff again

so i might do a small rocket fuel plant aswell

[outer vale]

hope you enjoy placing fuel gens

[thorn bane]

just keep in mind that you can blueprint them

wait do pipes auto connect now as well? i havent tried
that would make it even easier

[urban olive]

only in 1.1

[thorn bane]

i mean in 1.1
or is it only belt

[urban olive]

but the conveyer lift thing..

yeah pipes do

[thorn bane]

yoooo
honestly huge buff to fuel gens xD

[urban olive]

are 600 pipes still broken tho?

[thorn bane]

yep

[outer vale]

no, but still awkward

[dusky dust]

If by "broken" you mean "technically working as intended," then yes. :)

[urban olive]

whats different to 300 pipes

[dusky dust]

(I acknowledge that the user experience with 600/min mk2 pipes is not great, but they can be made to work entirely reliably once you know how to work with 'em)

[outer vale]

getting 600/min isn't always straightforward, but it is doable

[wind spade]

no

[dusky dust]

Just some aspects of the fluid simulation start becoming more feisty, combined with running pipes at their max capacity. (The same problems people commonly run into at 600/min can actually show up at 300/min on mk1 pipes as well, it's just less common)

[thorn bane]

mk2 pipes in long manifolds at 600/min have less throughput than 600

[wind spade]

(they never were broken, if not counting a few temporary bugs, that were usually fixed in a few days/weeks)

[dusky dust]

Sloshing, water hammer, other kind of byproducts of the simulation that's being run under the hood

[urban olive]

oh ok thanks

[outer vale]

as long as you treat them like pipes and not like bidirectional belts you'll be fine

[wind spade]

or rather, they still have 600 throughput, just backflow reduces it (since the backflow counts towards the 600)

[urban olive]

ok that makes lots of sende

[dusky dust]

This advice will nearly always get you to working 600/min, and is IMO good advice no matter what you're building. Note of course that people have gotten working systems while ignoring large swaths of this, and occasionally due to build styles or other vagaries you might still have problems even with all this. But IME it's nearly always "the pipes Just Work":

1. Keep the system as simple and short as possible.
2. Loop your manifolds (so: the input goes into both sides of the machines you're feeding)
3. Feed fluid from above, so gravity does part of the work for you
   4a. Avoid valves entirely (they've been improved for 1.0, so this one might not be as important, but you still don't actually need valves)
   4b. Avoid fluid buffers entirely (except as buffers for train lines, where they are rather necessary)
4. Prefill your pipes! Full pipes are happy pipes. Wait until the system's thoroughly saturated before turning machines on.
5. Place junctions before pipes. If you do snap junctions onto pipes, dismantle and rebuild the pipes afterwards.

See #screenshots message for an example of 2+3 specifically.

[wind spade]

but if you have e.g. gravity-fed setup that relies on moving 600/min through one pipe (not manifold), it works just fine

[thorn bane]

well the screenshot you posted also doesnt work for long manifolds like turbofuel

[wind spade]

I have yet to see a setup where a person followed all the above rules and the setup didn't work

99% of times where someone comes and says it's broken, we then ask for images and it's because the person in fact didn't follow all those rules

(and I know they are not "rules", but just "recommendations")

[thorn bane]

turbofuel gens placed like this at 600/min
#math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

that doesn't follow the "loop your manifolds" recommendation

[thorn bane]

it doesnt work even if you loop it

[urban olive]

do i do the big e or the s

[outer vale]

no

[thorn bane]

E
to break it down to 150 instead of 300
for low throughput like turbofuel

[wind spade]

then it's one of the other rules that isn't applied. Hard to say from a 2 second paint image

[wind spade]

do vertical loop, prefill, works just fine

[thorn bane]

its not really a complicated setup
600/min turbofuel going into generators in a manifold (7.5/min)
connecting it in a loop doesnt work since it sloshes too hard
you need to connect it in 4 places for it to work

[wind spade]

is the loop vertical?

[thorn bane]

yes

[wind spade]

make a #1038092680493801533 thread with images of it or something then. I'm sure people will find the cause

[urban olive]

the 600 crude oil to rocket fuel system you mentioned above is 600 fuel power plants 😢

[outer vale]

^ 😉

the true cost of rocket fuel

you can at least OC your gens to cut that down, but obviously that's then a lotta shards

[restive sparrow]

This is a nice demonstration but why wouldn't stage 2 simply be fed 1:1 from the output of stage 1?

[frosty owl]

It was part of a test on wether pipes can be "load balanced" or not, so merging and then splitting was necessary.
More at: #math-and-meta message

[frosty owl]

So to answer the question: purely for testing/demonstration purposes. That picture is NOT meant to be a suggested way to do things, just to understand things better ^^

[sage nexus]

30 versatile frameworks/min = 15 modular frames/min & 180 steel beams/min
15 modular frames/min = 11.25 reinforced plates/min & 210 screws/min 2x
22.5 reinforced plates/min = 135 iron plates/min & 375 screws/min
180 steel beams/min = 30 steel beams/in = 120 steel ingots/min 6x
there's no way this is feasible with one pure iron node, right?

[opaque quartz]

Depends on your recipes, tier of miners, and belts

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=yfnteBewylvaMfHmP133

With all default recipes it requires 1080 iron ore which you can get from one pure node with an overclocked mk3 miner and mk6 belts

Solid steel ingot alt recipe alone cuts the iron down to 840/min

[sage nexus]

I have the solid steel ingot recipe, bolted plate recipe and bolted frame recipe. I have a mk 2 miner with mk3 belts

[opaque quartz]

Click on the production plan link I shared above and edit the recipes and see what it does to the plan

Max you can get from a pure node with mk2 miner is 600/min (full overclock) but you are limited by belt speed with mk3 belts at 480/min

You can update the planner to set the iron limit to 480 ore and then set it to maximize to see how many you can get

[sage nexus]

I'll just have to lower the amount, the calculator won't calculate if I have less than 840 ore

[torn plaza]

try maximise

[sage nexus]

I can just cut my losses and craft the automated wiring here instead

[torn plaza]

that can make the tools go a bit wonky but it can tell you what your limit is

[sage nexus]

I can get 17.143/min with 480 ore

[restive sparrow]

Why the heck am I blowing fuses when I flip a switch to bring online one battery and 10 hypertube entrances when I have over 7GW of headroom?

[opaque quartz]

You might be able to get there w additional alt recipes for iron ingots ie pure, alloy, or leached

[vapid gorge]

1.1?

[sage nexus]

I'll see if I can find more hard drives, I've found a lot of crash pods but I'm either limited by the resources they require to fix or uranium being in the way

[outer vale]

uranium's not too bad around hard drives, just evade as best you can and take food to munch on

[sage nexus]

automated wiring seems much more feasible here, I think I'll just go with that

[loud prairie]

Is there a good route to get bauxite from the two nodes near the gold coast via trains? My first game I did the default spawn and put a spiral near the waterfall. I'm on my second game, starting in the dunes, and tried to spiral the railroad down from (-213, 3.8) but it's a lot of spirals. It works but seems inefficient.
I was thinking that there's either a) a better path, or b) a better way to move the bauxite (lifts). There seems to be a good path at (-197, 13).
Maybe I can have lifts cover the vertical distance and then have a train pick it up at the bottom? Or a train that just runs the spiral and the tracks aren't connected. Essentially it's just a lift at that point.

I'm pre-aluminum

[outer vale]

would somewhat depend where you're taking it, but yes, lifts down to ground then stations from there would be my suggestion

why not process it where it is (give or take)?

[loud prairie]

I could do that at the bottom since I need silica, but I was mostly interested in getting it there. I was going dispose of the extra water with Wet Concrete so doing it to the NW of there is convenient for space/limestone.