math-and-meta

[junior escarp]

oh

[dreamy nimbus]

from what I've heard I'm the weird one but I prefer doing it this way

[fallow siren]

planner only helps the math, you do the alyout yourself

[dreamy nimbus]

Modeler is really you choosing what do you with x recipe, x byproduct manually (alumina solution refinery water input sometimes bugs but that's all)

[vapid gorge]

that was never a thing

[dreamy nimbus]

from my perspective, it feels more legimate to do the planning like that

[vapid gorge]

make two tabs in tools?

[dreamy nimbus]

you can see my triplets factory

and logistics look relatively clean

because I found a way that suits me

find your way

[vapid gorge]

apply the same mechanic as the waste water in bauxite, have a seperate blender that only feeds off the waste

[grave grove]

I recall you showing me this, it's odd though I don't apply 10% to values and pipes have issues but when I had 10% it works fine

[fallow siren]

no reason to use valves

[vapid gorge]

direct feed systems, especially with valves, are unreliable. The main issue is when they don't work there's no real way to trouble shoot it.

if you're doing direct feed best chance is VIP junctions, even if they aren't super reliable

[junior escarp]

my way is sort of more compact
using layers and stuff like that
something like this

[dreamy nimbus]

your way your way, I prefer having everything flat, it makes it easier to move around the factory

[oblique hollow]

you mean "set the limit 10% bigger than intended"?
eeeeeh -i cant think of any case where you would want that

[grave grove]

Yeah

[oblique hollow]

you dont want to limit the byproduct water from aluminum because you want that to be used as fast as possible

and the same goes for byproduct acid

as for limiting the fresh acid or water - you dont want any excess there usually

[grave grove]

not limit but incrase the limit by 10% so it reduce any sloshing

[oblique hollow]

hmm no that isnt the idea behind that

you can do it of course but its not particularly useful

[grave grove]

weird why it works then, don't recall where i got this info from

[vapid gorge]

there's no single way for pipes to work. It's mostly about consistency and being able to replicate systems and being able to trouble shoot them

[oblique hollow]

if you dont know the source, pipe info is always very awkward

Or if you cant explain what exactly it should do and why
... or at least somewhat logically explain it

as complicated as pipes are, they do have some logic to them

[grave grove]

All I can do I guess it provide a screen shot of the segment that is in question

[dreamy nimbus]

why do long logistic nuclear lines for little power

when you can do small bulk rocket fuel for way much power

[oblique hollow]

because 360 fuel generators

[dreamy nimbus]

that takes like 20 mins top

[oblique hollow]

if you wanna do that then go for it

[fallow siren]

preference

i did rocket fuel bcs it was new and i want to try it, im sick to stomach when placing thousands of it

[dreamy nimbus]

I'm just wondering what's the point of uranium when rocket fuel exists

[oblique hollow]

we are questioning that too

guess its for all those who dont wanna go for complex stuff

[dreamy nimbus]

it's more like there's two possibilities, one very hard and one easy

[oblique hollow]

before rocket fuel, it was more nuanced

nuclear used way less sulfur and was smaller in scale

rocket fuel threw that off

[arctic saffron]

how do i work out power useage of a machine that used 250% overclock and 4 sommersloops

[oblique hollow]

eh, i guess nuclear still saves sulfur

[oblique hollow]

sloop number is useless without knowing the machine type

[arctic saffron]

oh

[oblique hollow]

just say "maxed out sloop" or half

[arctic saffron]

particle acceletator

[oblique hollow]

4 sloops in a machine that can take 8 is different to 4 in a machine that can only take 4

[arctic saffron]

yeah true

[oblique hollow]

recipe is needed too

particle accelerate demand varies per recipe

[arctic saffron]

its the nuclear pasta

[dreamy nimbus]

100% slooped nuclear pasta goes from 2k to 6k

but sharded...

[oblique hollow]

max OC increased demanx by 3.36x
max sloop is x4 i believe

[fallow siren]

some people just dont want to place thousand of fuel gen, and they shit on your pc

[dreamy nimbus]

fair enough even though I'd prefer placing them than doing nuclear

[oblique hollow]

ok yeah x4 for max sloop

[fallow siren]

it took me 3 whole days to fully place thousand fuel gens, and those 3 days are not fun at all

[oblique hollow]

this means max OC and max Sloop = Base Power x 3.36 x 4
= Base Power x 13.44

[arctic saffron]

so max is 2500

2500*13.44

[oblique hollow]

for nuclear pasta, that means 6720 - 20160 MW

[dreamy nimbus]

max nuclear pasta it's

[arctic saffron]

ohhh

[oblique hollow]

means the average power is 13.4 GW

[arctic saffron]

so 201600

[oblique hollow]

yes, at max

[dreamy nimbus]

20.2GW max (rounded)

that's a lot

[oblique hollow]

thats at least 8 nukes

or 80 fuel gens

[oblique hollow]

also, something about this seems off

[dusky dust]

Uranium processing isn't hard at all. I agree that once you start adding Plutonium, the parts get more complex

And I'd personally rather put down 36 NPPs than 360 fuel gens

[oblique hollow]

ok now i know why it seems off, fertile uranium + instant plutonium

that is such a weird choice

[dusky dust]

(I know we've had this conversation a million times already but if you're gonna keep bringing it up, I'm gonna keep defending nuclear. :)

Rocket Fuel and Nuclear power are in the same general tier of power; they're both great, and they are both basically as optional as the other

One's not better, and I disagree that one is significantly harder than the other

[oblique hollow]

according to tools, such a setup for 6 nukes should yield 15000 MW and only use like 1430 MW

[dusky dust]

(And unless you happen on the Nitro Rocket Fuel alt, you get access to nuclear quite a bit earlier than you do Rocket Fuel, to boot)

[wind spade]

but I'll always say that RF is annoying to build due to x10 gens

[fallow siren]

building thousands of gen is not fun

[oblique hollow]

nuclear always had the benefit that is scales much more

[fallow siren]

id rather use that time to build the logistic system for nuclear

[oblique hollow]

yes, the chain is long because it needs so many machines and such - but many of them are not at max capacity

[dusky dust]

In the end, as with anything else, it's personal preference. I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to not do Rocket Fuel. I actually finished project assembly on my 1.0 save with Rocket Fuel being my primary power source; I didn't build out nuclear until after

Partly that was just because I'd never done rocket fuel before, though, since it was my first 1.0 playthrough. :)

[fallow siren]

the same for me, rocket fuel for first 1.0 save

iirc made around 300GW with it

[oblique hollow]

if tools can be trusted.
thats for 15000 MW and 90000 MW production, respectively

using most of the alts yosh used before

[dreamy nimbus]

I tried to go for easiest design

[oblique hollow]

default would have been simplest tbh

[dreamy nimbus]

while trying to produce as much as possible

[oblique hollow]

produce as much power as possible or as much plutonium

the amount you "waste" on plutonium is not unimportant

either way, to sum up both sides:
we have 50 small buildings, 15 big ones and 2 accelerators + 6 nukes
vs
3 small buildings, 38 big buildings and 360 fuel generators, which count as big buildings

[dreamy nimbus]

it's more about the logistics than the building size that matters to me

[oblique hollow]

try routing 1500 rocket fuel

[dreamy nimbus]

we have a lot of space in this world

[oblique hollow]

yeah we do, but it still takes time to hook everything up

and to make it all run

[dusky dust]

(And plus with fuel you've gotta deal with everyone's favorite challenge: pipes. :)

[dreamy nimbus]

logistics

[dusky dust]

(Which isn't a challenge that I personally mind, of course, but it's a factor.)

[dreamy nimbus]

it's easy until something breaks

[oblique hollow]

yeah thats my point

[dreamy nimbus]

which in my case is almost never

[dusky dust]

Anyway: Rocket Fuel isn't better than Nuclear. They're both optional, they're both good. Use whichever you want (or both! or neither!)

[oblique hollow]

a big thing about nuclear is that the plutonium is a lot of extra power thats usually wasted

[dreamy nimbus]

well APAs kinda resolve this issue

[oblique hollow]

usually, its 50% extra power

[dusky dust]

APAs are beside the point for the rocket fuel vs. nuclear question. :)

[dreamy nimbus]

ít's still a factor to take into account though

[dusky dust]

Not really?

[oblique hollow]

yeah but why only bring it up now

[dusky dust]

The APAs don't care how you got your original power

It's the same boost from 200GW of Rocket Fuel as 200GW of Nuclear

[oblique hollow]

you need like 5 APAs to make up for the power loss of plutonium sinking

[dreamy nimbus]

alien power matrixes exist

even though they're expensive to build, they boost you on the long term

[oblique hollow]

which is a long and complex route. i thought the point was to keep it simple(ish)

[dusky dust]

Sure, but they boost you long-term no matter what your power generation technique is

They aid you just as much no matter what your power generation looks like

[oblique hollow]

also thats Tier 9 stuff anyway

[dreamy nimbus]

well at this point, if you're doing nuclear for the sake of doing more complex, might as well do that in the same time

[dreamy nimbus]

not like uranium is T8

[dusky dust]

I don't do nuclear because it's more complex. I do it because it scales so much more nicely

[dreamy nimbus]

or T7 i can't remember

[oblique hollow]

dont equate Tier 8 with Tier 9.
theres a long road between them

[dusky dust]

(And also because complexity doesn't scare me. Automating big factories is why I'm playing the game, after all.)

[dreamy nimbus]

still, doing nuclear is more complex than doing rocket fuel

[dusky dust]

I have never claimed that the nuclear production chain isn't technically more complicated than Rocket Fuel

[dreamy nimbus]

fair enough and then it comes to preference if you want to do nuclear or rocket fuel

[oblique hollow]

i guess thats why rocket fuel was created

[dusky dust]

But I have claimed that Uranium power, at least, is quite simple

[oblique hollow]

you can always just spam hundreds of fuel generators

[dusky dust]

Yes, it's more complex than Rocket Fuel, by a margin, but nothing there is difficult

And avoids you having to spam hundreds of fuel gens

[dreamy nimbus]

I'm saying that because nuclear is more complex after all than rocket fuel, and might as well do alien power matrixes to make it even more worth it

[dusky dust]

Which is, for me, more of a detriment than a slightly more complex production chain

[oblique hollow]

then again, as you need to advance production for most things anyway, you should have enough stuff lying around to at least be able to make a supplemental nuke setup

[dusky dust]

APA/APM is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making

If you want more power boost, they're available, but it's got nothing to do with power selection

[oblique hollow]

kinda sad that they boosted fuel gens but not nukes in terms of Power output vs space used

[dreamy nimbus]

the reason why you do nuclear is to get power

APA/APM make nuclear even more appealing than it is already just saying

[dusky dust]

APA/APM makes any power generation more appealing

[oblique hollow]

and is therefore also a point for rocket fuel

[dusky dust]

It's a totally separate concern

[dreamy nimbus]

but especially one that takes a lot of power to make hence isn't that high of net profit without A LOT of investement

[dusky dust]

... right, I think we're all aware that APM production has a break-even point. Which you can easily achieve with either rocket fuel or nuclear power

[oblique hollow]

so is nuclear now worth it or not if we consider APAs and APMs?

[dreamy nimbus]

"even more" worth it, I use my words carefully

[dusky dust]

The attractiveness of Matrixes doesn't change with your power generation technique of choice

[dreamy nimbus]

I wouldn't say that

[dusky dust]

No matter what you do, it's a completely separate production line

[oblique hollow]

eh, at that point why not just stop at (synthetic) power shards.
they reduce the amount of nukes and fuel gens you need to place by 2.5x

[dusky dust]

It's not like there's some weird synergy where you've got a nuclear power line and you can go "oh, hey, all I've gotta do is add this one extra step and I've got Matrixes1"

No matter what you're doing powerwise, if you want Matrixes, you're gonna be building out a specific production line for them

It's the same amount of work, for the same amount of reward, whatever your power grid is powered by

[dreamy nimbus]

true but I still stand by my point

[dusky dust]

And even if you decided to go "simpler" by using Rocket Fuel, you still might decide "oh hey, I'd like that 30% boost" and build some matrixes

[oblique hollow]

honestly, i can see "hey might as well do matrices" if the thought before that was:
"ok i need a shit ton of power and that makes 10000 fuel generators, better get some automated power shards going"

(or maybe 1000 nukes) [ik, ridiculous numbers - hyperbole]

[dusky dust]

Anyway, time for some breakfast. I will also continue to stand by my point, being that Rocket Fuel is not inherently superior to Nuclear. They're in the same power tier, they've each got advantages + disadvantages, and they're both as optional as the other. I just strongly disagree that Rocket Fuel is the "obvious" or "better" choice, and I'm gonna push back whenever I see that. :)

If your only metric is "simpler production chain," then sure, the advantages/disadvantages work out in favor of Rocket Fuel

But that's only one way to look at it, and even if that's true for you it doesn't make nuclear somehow useless

[oblique hollow]

[Insert quote about Ionized Fuel here]

[alpine steeple]

what do u guys use to plan ur factories like what website

[outer vale]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[fierce ruin]

oh my god? i can actually build this

i just need rocket fuel and the alt

thats... 576 fuel gens rounded up

[opaque token]

guys how do i cut 60 res/min out of a 300/min belt?

[fierce ruin]

could do a 5 way splitter

otherwise, if possible, a manifold

[opaque token]

i want to do a manifold
but still have the 60 usable without screwing stuff up

[civic bronze]

Your best bet is smart splitter before the manifold - "any" into manifold, "overflow" where you want 60

But its only neccesary if it goes into the sink tbh, if its for another machine it would just balance itself

[alpine steeple]

does this look ok to u guys

[opaque token]

o i guess that works

[oblique hollow]

with a mk 1 belt

[wind spade]

or with a machine that eats 60

[wind spade]

afaik this doesn't work in some configurations

[oblique hollow]

1 splitter with 3 exits

60, 120, 120

re-merge the 2 120/min belts and you are done

[grave grove]

From what I research the word I was looking for is dynamic. The flow would be more dynamic. Not to fix sloshing.

[oblique hollow]

~~of course. its fluid dynamics ~~
jokes aside, all flow tends to fluctuate

Its really just an aesthetic thing most of the time

the only time you dont want fluctuations is near the limit

[grave grove]

yeah and I think that's the issue I was having

[oblique hollow]

and there, valves wont help much

if you expect a very high flow and it keeps being interrupted, thats an issue worth looking into more

more than just trying to fix it by adding a value

[grave grove]

It's been working for now once I added a bit more dynamic flow =p

but ya I think I should of added a buffer after to avoid this issue, but atm it's working by adjust the dynmaic flow of things without a buffer.

I don't think I had enough in the pipes so it's why I chose valves to adjust. Is the correct solution, no. But because my pipes weren't topped off by adding valves seemed to resolve the issue for now.

[grave grove]

Thanks for the info I appreciate you.

[wind spade]

buffers and valves both cause more issues than they help

[grave grove]

I'm glad it's working out for what I did with them.

[inland quail]

Maybe I'm dumb, but just add a splitter with a MK1 belt going out of it?

[hoary wigeon]

spent some time trial and erroring my plans to get the raw ressources usage down, pretty good now ngl

horrific mess extended !

yeah feels weird to actually calculate for stuff in tha game, 1st time im ever doing it

but with what im cooking i really needed to

[oblique hollow]

200 AI expansion servers per minute?

[hoary wigeon]

yup

[oblique hollow]

you'll be done in less than two minutes with that amount lol

[hoary wigeon]

oh and 189 plutonium waste, which is the maximum amount total

[hoary wigeon]

oh dw all my sommersloops will go to it too

[oblique hollow]

just a grant big final goal i assume?

[hoary wigeon]

yeah

i tried to see what would create the most tickets possible

i tried with ballistic warp thingy but they eat so much SAM

wait let me try seeing to how much i can go to

LMAO

250 per minutes

my weak point ? FUCKING LIMESTONE

god dammit 💀

[oblique hollow]

lmao skill issue
or rather - limestone issue

[hoary wigeon]

cloudy diamonds eat 60k limestone ☠️

[oblique hollow]

turbo, oil and coke diamonds aint bad tbh

cloudy trades one bottleneck for another

[hoary wigeon]

im basicly not using any limestone in the world other than for that

and im already using all the oil in the world

10k out of 12k 💀

[warm granite]

Is that also uranium I see?!

[civic bronze]

bruh, seeing this im starting to see why people hate on modeller

for planning i'd say sftools is better

[hoary wigeon]

yeah its both an ai extention and uranium/plutonium processing

[oblique hollow]

you still seem to have lots of coal

[civic bronze]

modeller is good for... well modelling

[oblique hollow]

barely using half of all coal

[hoary wigeon]

uknow using ME as a point for anything is really not that good

[oblique hollow]

go with some default diamonds

[hoary wigeon]

ooo wait thats true

[civic bronze]

nah but how do you even make something out of it

[hoary wigeon]

by being way smarter than me and not putting everything in a horrible mess

like im telling u

me planning this is the single smartest thing ive EVER done in my entire satisfactory gameplay

and ive played for 600h now

[hoary wigeon]

im suffering cause everytime im changing a value it takes more and more time to calculate everything since its ALL interconnected

its as if like

i wasnt using a tool in the right way

hmmmmm, no it clearly cannot be me

[oblique hollow]

either way, you can easily squeeze another 1000/min diamonds out of 20k/min coal

[warm granite]

Y'all make planning more difficult than it needs to be. You just need notepad.exe and two braincells to create enough friction to smelt iron ore

[civic bronze]

no water aluminium

[hoary wigeon]

one is currently dying trying to make my lungs work and the other have been missing for the past 4 months

[gloomy bridge]

lol, ikr

[hoary wigeon]

i honestly love to put water everywhere since its litteraly free, like its so useful yet litteraly everywhere

[oblique hollow]

i prefer "infinite water source" aluminum

i love when you put water in and get out more water.
its like - diluted water

[civic bronze]

yeah, obviously, but its cool modeller lets you do this

[hoary wigeon]

oh yeah absolutly

[warm granite]

If ficsonium is so good, it really should make Tier3 tubes 😢

[hoary wigeon]

im just making plutonium waste and throwing it in the red forest LMAO

[warm granite]

Tier2 tubes can't pump enough through my 4,800m3/min rocket fuel factory

[hoary wigeon]

just put more pipes :)

[hoary wigeon]

ok i think i broke it cause its still loading

[hoary wigeon]

max for me

[oblique hollow]

eh, not bad

[hoary wigeon]

litteraly the entire elevator in 1 minute 💀

[oblique hollow]

(... minus the other 3 parts)

[hoary wigeon]

they're already done

[oblique hollow]

building a factory for 500 hours to complete the goal in one minute

meanwhile the singular Quantum Encoder working on 1/min AI expansion server:

[hoary wigeon]

500 hours ? i have to build 1800 rafineries for COPPER ONLY, this is taking me a looot more time than that

[oblique hollow]

you know what WOULD have been funny?
if tier 9 needed 999 of every part

[wind spade]

and 999999 screws

[oblique hollow]

you can cut that number if you trade some copper efficiency and some sulfur for leached copper

the efficiency difference of ore to ingot is literally just half an ingot

[hoary wigeon]

i have a stupid rule sadly, only pure receipes, and 1 1 1 rule

[oblique hollow]

111?

[hoary wigeon]

1 machinery, 1 pipe, 1 pump

[oblique hollow]

lame

[hoary wigeon]

the numbers dont match up ? not my problem

if a raffinery only use 10 water then they still get their dedicated pipe and pump

[glad vigil]

Flashbacks to pre-release stage4

[oblique hollow]

1800 water extractors madness

just for copper

[hoary wigeon]

let me see how many i'll need

[oblique hollow]

Honestly, i think your PC will just die midway through this project

[glad vigil]

I had 15 particle accelerators doing nothing, but copper powder

[hoary wigeon]

4055 water pumps

[oblique hollow]

haha

[hoary wigeon]

i forgot some its actually 4308

[oblique hollow]

have fun.

[hoary wigeon]

oh its already dying dw, just that at least the devs will have fun fixing the game with it

like my save is already so bad that its killing all of the dedicated servers

[oblique hollow]

i dont think theres much there to help em ficsit

[hoary wigeon]

well u see i kinda see myself have a fun little dance with the devs

i make my save uplayable, give it to the devs and they fix the game

then i come back to satis and make it unplayable AGAIN, and they fix it again

win win !

[oblique hollow]

(or lose - lose)

"oh nooooo they made my save playable again"

"oh no they made the game unplayable again"

[hoary wigeon]

i mean i think the devs might start to hate me after the 4th time LMAO

[oblique hollow]

maybe they'll love you again after the 5th

[young plinth]

Any way I can see what each grid is producing/consuming WITHOUT shutting off the connection?

[oblique hollow]

no

connected grids are connected after all

[frosty pulsar]

works perfect thx

[sly cloud]

Hi im planning my piping splitting right now, and I just want to be sure, is it eneugh for the red connections to be MK 1 pipes or do I need MK 2 for those 2 because of the weird fluid mechanics?

[frosty owl]

I think it should be fine

[frosty pulsar]

delete the middle junction and just build a pipe

or do you plan to connect something to the middle junction later?

[night fractal]

Depends on where you need it to flow...

[sly cloud]

im so stupid, the exits arent 75, theyre 225 per pipe

does it still work? as a simple pipe 3:4 splitter?

[opaque quartz]

how much are you producing? how much are you consuming?

keep your pipe systems as simple as possible

[night fractal]

I belive it might bottleneck i would do it something like this to help

i would recommend testing in a "test world" to see what's best for you

[frosty pulsar]

maybe like this? with mk2

and you can still put in valves

[night fractal]

Yeah just make sure to have a valve closed to 150 so flowing is stable

[sly cloud]

okay, thank you, will try soon

[civic bronze]

what im gonna be doing for next couple days

[thorny root]

It would seem that the possibilities unlocked by slooping 34 sam constructors at the very beginning of the chain are worth it.

[wind spade]

no, don't do that, don't use valves

[lavish geode]

I think I have finally found the worst alternate recipe, It is the alluminum pipe recipe with 1 alluminum ingot into 7 iron rods

[thorny root]

I figure I have... not 10200 sam but 20400 sam. Effectively...

And this is where I start breaking down the needs... machine group by machine group.

[thorny root]

If I burn all the uranium and all the plutonium possible, this gives me 187.5 plutonium waste, but to turn that into ficsonium fuel rods requires 3750 ficsite trigons which requires 10000 sam exactly to make. The problem is Dark Matter Residue. This can be achieved as a byproduct (preferred) or directly through sam burning. The difficulty is finding the right combination of stuff to make the dark matter residue I need without burning all the sam to do it. The most straightforward way to do this is to create time crystals and power shards but at an absurd quartz crystal consumption rate. And I don't really need many power shards, if any. It's not like I'm going big on ionized fuel. But this is the balance at this point. Quartz crystal consumption and power shard byproduct VS increased sam consumption.

Anyway... 10000 sam on trigons, 4875 sam on converting to DMR assuming ZERO byproduct power shards. With slooping this is feasible. And this only uses a third of the aluminum.

So... To reiterate... 100% production of all 3 stages of nuclear using slooped sam, while still having trigons and time crystals to spare.

Making the Ficsonium cost a lot of sam to do but the DMR generated by converting that to rods halves the need basically.

DMR flow between machines makes this whoooole tier a disgusting mess to calculate.

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, I'm amused that Phase 5 encourages so much interdependency

It's like CSS saw our frequent recommendations for Independency and decided to throw a bit of a wrench in it. :D

It often makes sense to mix those lines together so your DMR/DMC production stays fully efficient

[thorny root]

Yeah because of DMR interplay at this tier, and all the different things I need to make for this tier, the planner is actually best done... all at once. Like almost the whole tier as a factory.

[dusky dust]

Yeah

[thorny root]

But... I understand it now.

I understand that I can decrease sam usage by increasing quartz crystal usage and vice versa.

Or I can do coal and limestone.

Anyway... Diamonds are SAM's best friend.

[dusky dust]

Indeed

[wintry yoke]

So I’m running into a decision maker and i need some help, yall are good at math i am Not!

So my level to mining devices are running 250% that means i can run 6 wet concrete right?

And those 6 need 600water. Which means i need 2 water pumps?

[wind spade]

one pump on mk2 pipe is enough

[wintry yoke]

Really?

[wind spade]

pump has throughput based on pipe it is on

[wintry yoke]

Oh so one pipe os 600m3

And that can run 1 refine factory. Which means 1 pump can do 18 refineries?

[wind spade]

yeah, if you make 600/min, one mk2 pipe can handle that

[wintry yoke]

If i split it into 3 pipes?

[wind spade]

you don't even need pumps if it's flat

[wintry yoke]

I didn’t mean pump i ment water extractor sorry

[wind spade]

it tells you how much it makes

[robust parrot]

How much Fuel generators can I have with one refinery making Turbofuel? I have 15 refineries and I need to know how many generators I can make.

[wind spade]

open the gen, it will tell you

[wintry yoke]

This means ill be producing 3000 concrete a min… hopefully

Unless i dont understand what +3,000 is satisfactory modeler

[vapid gorge]

technically? sure it could work. I don't advise it though as a general thing. Multiple merging and splitting like this is rolling the dice on if it'll keep functioning or not.

also don't use valves

pipes don't 'split' like belts btw, they'll just flow wherever is least full and you'll want to flood your pipes. So it'll be the machines controlling max flow

[opaque quartz]

The production rate of ore depends on the node purity, tier of miner, and clock rate. So it’s not possible to answer this question without knowing all three (or have you tell us the production rate directly)

[wintry yoke]

Normal ore, tier 2 (have tier 3 unlocked not using it atm) 250% on mk2 mining tools

[vapid gorge]

please use parts per minute

why make people do mental gymnastics math when you can just say X pm

[opaque quartz]

So how much ore is that? How much does the wet concrete recipe take?

[wintry yoke]

Dude, I’m sorry i cant Just Throw everything on the table, Im not that Quick with thinking, maybe chill out okay? Why you gotta be rude. One the wet concrete is 100 water and 120 limestone

[vapid gorge]

I'm not being rude. I'm getting you to look at what you're doing in a parts per min way to help everyone, including you.
When you make plans? parts per min
when you take notes? parts per min. Forget nodes and miner marks

[wintry yoke]

games with math have a design. I know. im a Super fucking slow learner. Some people Don’t Add that to there books, also i already figured it out when i called a friend. So

[vapid gorge]

But this is to help you. Just write down numbers. Your machines tell you exactly what you're doing per min. You are making it much harder on yourself trying to juggle node, purity and clocking , when you can just have a number

[remote flame]

Pretty sure you've got your answer already by now, but I'll bump this image forward too

All the clockrates are set so they can be scaled up to perfectly use a full mk2 pipe

Now the standard turbofuel recipe makes 18.75/min at 100%, and you said you have 15 refineries so 281.25/min.

If you could make 1 more refinery, it would add up nicely to 300/min, and you'd need 40 gens at 100%, or 16 gens at 250%

Otherwise, each fuel gen burns 7.5/min at 100%. So 281.25/7.5 = 37.5 fuel gens (one clocked at 50%), which is 37.5 gens x 250MW = 9375MW 🙂

[crimson moat]

The simplest and most guaranteed way is just to make four pipes of 225+ (or two of 450 which split into 2x225 ea.)

For pipe splitting, integer powers of 2 or 3 work fine. Deviating from those near pipe limits is dangerous. Because the pipes are connected you functionally have a single 4:3 unit which is at 50-100% loading, so it's both uneven and highly loaded.

In this case connecting as you showed probably does work (because the unwanted flow happens in an area where it's tolerable and because junctions are a bit magic), but it's bad practice IMO

[oblique hollow]

4:3 could work with mk 1, but this is indeed a bit awkward

[civic bronze]

wait, modeller actually worked with this loop?

i was making this to ask why it struggles with it, because it did last time i tried it, but it somehow worked now lol

[blissful field]

Dunno

[civic bronze]

appriciate the input

[blissful field]

What did you do differently

[civic bronze]

i have no idea, maybe i connected it incorretly last time

but i also heard it struggles with loops

[blissful field]

Did you use another Node/s?

[blissful field]

Got sth rn unavailable some time

[wind spade]

@polar mauve Pick any that you want, if you don't know, flip a coin or leave them be. All recipes are useful in some situations, there's no wrong choice and you can get them all anyway

[thorny root]

I think this is the 'meta' material layering. Each layer has the most relevant adjacencies next to it, as best I could figure... given the alt recipes I want to use.

Each layer here is 12m high, and the layer PAIRS are 24m high. These are strictly for raw material handling and processing. The layers are based on a train network that will look like this but with more layers.

Of each pair, bottom will be raws in, top will be empties out. The middle won't actually be crossed. I'll have 4 processing sites on each layer, 1 for each leg. Come to middle. Dump. Depart on upper track. Load. Set out for middle on lower track.

With the exception of oil being at the bottom, basically the factory gets higher tier as it gets higher elevation.

That's more of a consequence of game design than my planning, but it's also a bit of both.

Would very much like some feedback on https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/1356265086221816010/image.png?ex=67ebefca&is=67ea9e4a&hm=59e791ce8a08d220230ecebe06ff87dfd6d573dc34ec5ba91af40a9d439ad3f4& this specifically the adjacency of the neighboring layers and their best position in the hierarchy given the interplay of materials between layers. The fewer number of times I have to pass through another layer's back yard the better.

[civic bronze]

With your approach, why dont do water as well?

[thorny root]

There will be dedicated corridors for inter-layer weaving but I still would like to do this as few times as possible to avoid sphagettifying my neatness.

[thorny root]

Water is directly under this whole thing, and is considered omnipresent, as I will be utilizing water in nearly every layer.

If I don't have enough here, I can get more elsewhere, or do some of the processing where there's more water.

But... tbh I think I'll be okay for a while.

There's a lot of water there.

[civic bronze]

No hate but it kinda applies ike that for any resource

Are you planning on megabase?

[thorny root]

That's the whole reason I'm building this this way, and the location it's in. I'm bringing all the resources to the middle-ish where they'll all be neatly arranged and readily availalbe to pull from.

yes. I am planning 100% map utilization, all 3 stages of nuclear, and a mega mall for a fictional population I'm going to be forever waiting to move in.

I'm colonizing this sector of the planet.

Prepping for earth abandoners.

This has been my goal always, but the means to the end have seen some... hiccups

[civic bronze]

That sounds sick, i wish it will all go well for you, can't give advice tho, my first try at megabase didnt go well

[thorny root]

That's why I'm on try #4 and basically 6 months of planning.

its all about the logistics.

managing the movement of the things, getting them where they need to go, and ensuring it's done cleanly...

To do it cleanly requires extreme planning.

I have a theory right now that I think will do well for all of the handling of the layers. Dedicated omnidirectional train line pairs, ensuring 100% continuous train flow without interchanging. Dedicated vertical layers to entire material / resource processes. Dedicated corridors for layer interleave. Planning the entire map's resource utilization by breaking down the mega needs on a per factory basis before ever building the first production line.

Like... I know how much sam I'm going to need now to do my nuclear, and how much aluminum I have spare... and i don't have any nuclear reactors atm. 😛

Some day... I'll play the game! 😛

[pulsar lagoon]

why is not working?

[thorny root]

reconnect your splitter output to the machine inputs

verify that is in fact a splitter, and is pointing in the right direction.

[pulsar lagoon]

i did still not working

[pulsar lagoon]

you can tell by looking at

[thorny root]

Well you should see the problem then.

[vapid gorge]

listen for the 'click' for a legal connection being made

[pulsar lagoon]

what?

[vapid gorge]

when you connect up a belt or pipe or something you hear a 'click' to tell you when it's properly connected

[thorny root]

It's a little chirp click that lets you know its 'snapped'

[thorny root]

it's the snapping into position sound... basically.

[pulsar lagoon]

the other is different

[vapid gorge]

so first target the whole, then spin the head around to make sure you hear a click when it faces it

[vapid gorge]

'different' ?

[pulsar lagoon]

seems like always

[vapid gorge]

spin the head around , check for the click

do the same to the bottom one

[pulsar lagoon]

yeah you can see in the image

[thorny root]

Have you considered that one of your refineries may be pointing in the wrong direction? I can't tell by looking at it what all this is doing, only you can verify that.

[vapid gorge]

images carry no sound

[pulsar lagoon]

you can tell by lookin at

[vapid gorge]

and there isn't any good enough difference

[pulsar lagoon]

is ok

[vapid gorge]

do you hear the click in the 'different' one?

[thorny root]

Well... Good luck then.

[pulsar lagoon]

here is shorter than the other one, is that wrong?

you can see inside belt is the power shard

[vapid gorge]

it's possible there's a hidden belt stand in the machine a belt is connecting to instead

[pulsar lagoon]

the other refinery with longer lift is working

can you do a call? and i screen share

[vapid gorge]

I'm about to go to bed, and you can delete the building on your own to check for a belt stand

[pulsar lagoon]

no tbh

[pulsar lagoon]

ok

is empty

[vapid gorge]

if you can't here the click then delete everything and check. Build from different end points , try a different order. GL!

[pulsar lagoon]

ok ty

[pulsar lagoon]

.

[pulsar lagoon]

actually thinking about it maybe is a difference in the sound betewen lifts

[civic bronze]

gonna give pipes a chance at handling 600 in new build

[pulsar lagoon]

the last refinery was up, fixed it

[civic bronze]

vertical nudge shenanigans

[pulsar lagoon]

i dont know why thou, i use ctrl

[teal urchin]

Do refineries provide any sort of.. Lift to fluids? Like will this work or do i need to attach the powered lift thingy

[civic bronze]

yeah 13~ meters

[teal urchin]

awesome. should work great then. Thanks ^^

[opaque quartz]

Officially it’s 10m - you should plan to use a pump if you are going any amount of vertical

[dusky dust]

Ah, right, I'd meant to go check all those images to see if any were misleading. The water extractor image in particular definitely is.

It's "accurate" in that that is what the extractor looks like in relation to the head lift, if you're standing in front of it a little ways off, but the image implies that the head lift limit is above the extractor itself due to the perspective, when in reality it's not

[civic bronze]

well its 10 for full flow, it can go to 13 but will lose flow rate

[drowsy orbit]

Okay guys, I know this is basic but im VERY curious.
Are the numbers in this game broken?
See the screenshot. I need 100 of the thing on the right. I put 500 circuit boards in a chest connected to one of the Manufacturer's inputs.

It somehow ran out of circuit boards before making 100 and before running out of the rest of the components, of which I've put also exactly enopugh for 100 output

[plain raft]

Sometimes it glitches and stays in your inventory

Or it could be you put the storage backwards so it's still in storage

I do that all the time lol

[drowsy orbit]

I do not think it was either of the cases because it did produce 80/100 output with the stock I gave it

[outer vale]

if you put exactly enough in, seems odd that the Automated Wiring isn't a multiple of 5

[crimson moat]

At this stage, you can build a packaging facility at the ocean and just ship like 20k water. Trying to pipe it up from the lake is going to get old.

[tardy stream]

Wouldn't this 1 to 5 splitter hurt throughput because the 6th output on the right side would be just sending back output back to the input? do the merger to splitter connection not have a throughput limit?

[crimson moat]

Yes, you need to re-merge somewhere after the first split OR have 25% extra belt capacity (so e.g. juggling 600 things on a 780 belt like that works)

[dusky dust]

The bottom 5-way splitter here should be reliable, btw: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/f/f3/Balancer_odd.png

You could alternatively rely on manifold logic and not load-balance like that. :)

[tardy stream]

this is a bridge icon right? or would be a junction in other games, the two paths don't split or merge, simply pass by one another

[crimson moat]

ye

Btw, do the vertical splitters/mergers allow for direct 1:5 splitting in 1.1?

[outer vale]

doesn't look like it

but we'll know for sure soon enough

[thorny root]

that... that is an idea.

I might do this.

You win. Adding another train line for water.

That took a whole 3 seconds to decide when you explain it like that.

[civic bronze]

😅

[thorny root]

Guys... I'm becoming nestle. All the water is now mine, and it's going in bottles.

[dusky dust]

All the vertical splitters shown in shots have "blank" plates on the sides, corresponding to the top/bottom of "regular" splitters, and they've said that vertical splitters technically aren't a new part -- they're just what happens when you snap a splitter onto a lift

[thorny root]

pass over

[crimson moat]

A lift onto a splitter, hopefully. I have hundreds of splitters on lifts that have 4 horizontal outputs 😛

[dusky dust]

Oh, I meant like the current ability to create a new splitter in the "middle" of an established belt

Creating a new vertical splitter is apparently doing that onto a lift, instead

[opaque quartz]

Now I’m wondering if I should have waited to do my big nuclear build after the 1.1 drop so I could have done logistics differently

Oh well!

[civic bronze]

i love math

[tardy stream]

boom. perfectly balanced

120 iron ingots in, 10 reinforced iron plates per minutes out

[civic bronze]

i think that was possible with 2 splitters

[tardy stream]

show me?

with no manifold top loading?

and no one machine getting more Iron Ingots than necessary?

rods need 15 x2, iron plates need 30 x3

[civic bronze]

2 - that just how splitters work, right one will balance itself

[civic bronze]

3 with your way

[tardy stream]

oh no, you misunderstand

[tardy stream]

plus I said without load imbalance, mine balances it perfectly, and it's prettier

[civic bronze]

numbers are right, there's no load imbalance once machine buffers fill up - both work - yeah yours is pretty good for you

[oblique hollow]

Behold my madness
(Still janky lmao)

[civic bronze]

Wtf

[restive sparrow]

I'm a little late to chat, but for future reference this is a commonly used symbology in both logical diagrams (like this one) and electrical circuit schematics. It lets you have signals cross over eachother and clearly annotate they are not connected and are not related in any way.

[oblique hollow]

Excel Pipe simulator

[restive sparrow]

This is one hell of a tool. Is available somewhere? Did you make it?

[oblique hollow]

i made that over the last 4 days

and its far from done

but so far...
The good:

• Flow rate and fill level of pipes roughly matches ingame
• Production and consumption work
• Pipes stop flowing when the destination gets full

the bad:

• the "stop flowing part" is VERY erratic right now and takes a lot of time to stabilise
• no height difference math yet
• no junctions yet

buuut.... i can technically increase the flow limit way above 600/min here

[civic bronze]

Im just thinking... you could go and get a degree or something 😂 instead you are here learning about deepest mechanics of pipes for all, and future pioneers 🙏

[oblique hollow]

and i think i know the problem with high flow rates now

if you move more than the entire volume of a pipe in a single tic, it REALLY doesnt like that

the only solution would be bigger pipe volume. but that SUCKS for lower flow rates

so its not a sustainable solution

[civic bronze]

Longer than 7 foundation pipe segments available to build?

[oblique hollow]

... i think i just found a solution to the erratic jumping too

nope wait nvm

almost

[opal locust]

I think I've done enough stalling and maintenance, I need to start progressing Phase 4, but trying to put together a build for Assembly Director Systems is making my brain hurt.

[opaque quartz]

Do you have the intermediate parts needed for them automated? For space elevator parts I just set up temporary production fed by containers

Since you only need a fixed number of them

[opal locust]

Not really. I have some automated.

[opaque quartz]

What are you missing? I would focus on things like RCUs, supercomputers, turbo motors. Get those fully automated

[opal locust]

I have the HMF part automated, all of the computer side I don't.

[slate sequoia]

just overclock everything using fluid if your having a problem with fast flow rates, or underclock a pump

wait

nvm you cant underclock a pump mb

[oblique hollow]

how would overclocking everything to make it fast help when being fast is the problem?

[slate sequoia]

overclock the thing using the fluid, the faster it works the less time the pipes has time to back up OR make the pipes longer, and have pumps positioned in a way where it just barely makes it

[oblique hollow]

no, having pumps where fluid barely reaches it isnt good design

its better if the fluid can easily reach it

[opaque quartz]

For my computer production lines I used the silicon alternates so that I could make them without needing plastic or rubber. Since I already had a train line set up supplying quartz crystal and silicon

[opal locust]

See, I kind of want to make a new computer factory, since the one I have kind of sucks.

[slate sequoia]

you dont need 100% fuel for the machine, you only need like 50% if ur not overclocking, thats how it works irl, toilets for example, if the pipes were directly connected to the toilet it would back wash and flood both the supply and the flush, you want your pipes to elevate lower than position, then higher, then flush, should fix the problem your having

holy my spelling

[oblique hollow]

you mean the plumbers trap?
that serves to create a seal between your toilet and the sewer pipe

[opal locust]

I was thinking about using this group of nodes. one quartz node + limestone for cheap silica, and the other quartz node + water for pure quartz crystal. Then take the silica and quartz and ship them north to the rocky desert.

[slate sequoia]

yes lol, it holds a bit of water at the bottom allowing for vaccum like properties as the water is flowing down

[oblique hollow]

ok but that doesnt help OR work in satisfactory

there is no vacuum in this game

there is no suction

[slate sequoia]

theres still gravity lol, you can manipulat pipes to work that way in game

[oblique hollow]

i know

[slate sequoia]

add the 4 way split where your highest over flow is, and connect a pipe to either side, put a pump right before then, itll fix it, itll constantly over fill the 2 side pipes while having your main connection at 75%-98% full

[oblique hollow]

im aware of the workaround for making high flow rates work

but why do you think do we need to use those workarounds

[opal locust]

Is the default Supercomputer recipe the best? It certainly seems the simplest.

the alternates involve either aluminum, nitrogen, or both.

[dusky dust]

As always: "best" by what metric? And in conjunction with what other alt recipes?

[slate sequoia]

because ur problem needed a solution???

[dusky dust]

If you choose one metric to optimize in isolation, you can generally pick a "best" recipe to fit that particular problem, but there's basically never a way to assign some global "best" or "worst" label

[oblique hollow]

this isnt "my" problem specifically.
This is a general problem with high flow rate pipes
Specifically the Mk 2 Pipe

[slate sequoia]

then what good is it to keep posting it? especially if your not going to consider the solutions offered

[oblique hollow]

i appreciate your concern, but i didnt have a problem to begin with.
I was talking about the general design of the pipes
and more specifically, about this pipe simulator i made in Excel:
#math-and-meta message

[slate sequoia]

yes as did i

[oblique hollow]

it didnt seem like it

[restive sparrow]

Is this in excel, or a nice sharable online version like google sheets? It looks like it would be great to have, but I don't have excel at home 😦

[oblique hollow]

it was a google sheet, then i de-google sheeted it

and no, i wont make this available right now as it doesnt serve a purpose yet

[restive sparrow]

Some day I hope! Was the google sheet lacking functionality?

[oblique hollow]

i have to hold F9 to update this

it is NOT automatic

and i do not want to trigger cloud syncing every time i do that
plus, it was lacking some functionality regarding troubleshooting formulas

[amber edge]

this best recipe for aluminum? should I try deal with water cycle or sink it with wet concrete

[outer vale]

"best" depends on how you value each resource, looks like you value coal over oil

[dusky dust]

There's no "best" when it comes to aluminum; they've all got tradeoffs

[amber edge]

i have 1200 coke coal plant

[outer vale]

as for the water, you can separate your production into a set that uses fresh water and a set that uses the byproduct

[wooden jasper]

[outer vale]

whichever one you'd find more useful

[wooden jasper]

I think the aluminum scrap one might be more useful for now but I don't wanna redo my alum factory (I just got into production)

and I don't even have sulfuric acid production yet 😛

maybe I'll leave it in the computer for now until I start building again

it's almost slightly annoying to get 2 really good alts at once when I keep otherwise getting two 'bad' choices

[wind spade]

pick any that you want, there's no bad choice and you can get them all anyway

[outer vale]

if the round trip time is fast enough and belts can support it, sure

[wind spade]

flip a coin if you don't know which to pick

[wooden jasper]

I'll leave it for after I finish my HMF factory, or get more drives

60 HMF is the plan

[outer vale]

if you did overproduce, what do you think would happen? the items wouldn't just vanish into thin air

[wind spade]

yeah, where would the extra go?

[outer vale]

but no, you never need to overproduce things for no reason

[wooden jasper]

you might need to build up an excess in each receiving machine first so that the machines will run for the full length of the train trip

but then the production should be stable as long as this isn't a problem

[outer vale]

just standard manifold things

[amber edge]

what ratio should i make alclad and casing out of aluminum

[wind spade]

make as many as you need. If you don't know yet how much you need, don't make any

[amber edge]

well I just want to make a small starter to feed my mk5 needs

single mk5 belt which is 780 bauxite with 1:1 ingot ratio with the recipe i posted recently

[wooden jasper]

bruh I just found out my steel factory is almost able to make 60 HMF but can't

😦

unless I add in the pipe alt that uses concrete

but I'm already about to use 840 concrete/min on the encased beam + the concrete

which will only end up costing 360 oil/min, so I guess I could put out more oil anyway and get more power along with it

[dusky dust]

What I do is decide to make a certain amount of ingots (generally sort of maxing out a Bauxite node), and then send them all to a sink

Then whenever I have something which needs aluminum products (sheets/casings/heatsinks/tanks), I produce those specifically for whatever needs it, and then send it on the way

Over time the amount of ingots being sunk shrinks until I've just about exhausted that aluminum plant, at which point it's time to spin up another aluminum processing facility

Repeat as needed throughout the playthrough. :)

[civic bronze]

why isnt this 3400 bruh gotta take some steps back

[thorny root]

you're missing a parenthesis open

[civic bronze]

its there just hidden, its good now - turned out i got numbers mixed up "53.3334" should be "56.6667" - on pic and step before

[crimson moat]

It kind of does work, but only for preventing backflow

[oblique hollow]

Note on the 30% capacity and yet at max flow thing:

Its less about fullness and more about fill height in meters

A fill height of around 1.5 m is needed for any pipe to achieve max flow

[crimson moat]

delta, right? not absolute

[oblique hollow]

delta, yes

1.5 m in regard to the pipe's total height

measured directly from both pipe ends

not diagonal, straight vertical difference between the center of both ends

[crimson moat]

so dropping 3m is adequate

[oblique hollow]

roughly i guess

[crimson moat]

if you're on foundations then -3m would drop that metric by -1.5m

with the same machine input height, so everything except packagers?

[civic bronze]

Would there be any difference in flow between 2x same length pipes (in theory - because game doesnt allow it - lets say 1km) with 1st one being one segment and 2nd one having 100 segments? No junction

[wooden jasper]

what should I build now? massive iron factory maybe?

[crimson moat]

Yes

You can even change flow by building the same pipe (visually) in two different ways

like one short pipe plus one long pipe the first time, and one long plus one short the second time, or three short ones the third time

[opaque quartz]

lot of fluctuations in your power production chart there. do you have some generators that are starving/stuttering?

[teal urchin]

About to finally put together a factory to make adaptive control units, and modular engines.. Any really nice alt recipes you'd guys suggest for that?

[civic bronze]

With Caterium computer you wont need quartz for anything - i think

[teal urchin]

Dont even tell me that. I literally just spent like 8 hours building a computer factory with the crystal oscillator alt recipe, cause i didnt realize the caterium one was good. Lmaoooo

[civic bronze]

Nvm with normal one you dont need quartz too

[civic bronze]

Well it has its pros and cons, its in assembler not like other recipes, so its 2x cheaper to sloop

[civic bronze]

Other than the basic ones iron wire, iron pipe, steel rotor, stitched iron plate - not really comes to mind

[proven pawn]

thats.. really close

[empty maple]

HAHA why are people agonizing over lvl 1 conveyors. just put your sht down and advance the game

[proven pawn]

where the hell is the drop pod?????????

i cant click that thing infront of me for a harddrive

[civic bronze]

Its just scrap, look out for more boxy part, its near

[vapid gorge]

the pod is often not near the other wreckage. look at other parts around, often above

[proven pawn]

oh i just saw it, thank you

it was on the cliff above💔

[wooden jasper]

I had just started fueling a new generator section when I did that. It's 16GW at stable production, and it's fairly consistent

[proven pawn]

why is there literally nothing else i nthe blender

[pale aurora]

hey was wondering which of the 2 alternate recipes is better

[civic bronze]

Yet

Making some batteries would be good preparation for drones

[civic bronze]

Both - All recipes are useful - WHEN - you are planning to use them - so it boils down which one do you feel like using first

[pastel obsidian]

you unlock it later

[proven pawn]

W🔥 W🔥 W🔥 W🔥

fiinalyllylyyl

now last alt i need is pure aluminum ingot

[pastel obsidian]

Winner winnner

[proven pawn]

im actually gonan cry if i dont get the pure aluminum ingot alt

[pulsar lagoon]

a little friend 😅

[pastel obsidian]

You will get there

[teal urchin]

Hey so, random question- Just something I never really thought of..
If im say, making a manifold line, with i dunno.. 10 machines, and 500 iron going into them..
Is there any reason to not have the belts maxed out? Or do I need to change the belts along the line to match how many items will be going across it? So gradually going from say a mk.4 belt, to a mk.1
I do the latter option out of habit, but i dont know if its actually something you NEED to do

[opaque quartz]

You don’t need to do that. Only reason would be if you want the belts to look as full as possible (by using the belt tier as close to the amount of items used as possible)

Generally I just use whatever my highest tier belt is for everything. Mk5 tends to be the workhorse in the mid-to-late game

[fallow siren]

i just use highest belt i have to avoid silly mistake

[teal urchin]

Gotcha. Honestly good to know- I spend too much time doing the math of each belt lmao. And this way I can just max out my belts on blueprints

I just finished phase 3 so.. definitely good to know lmao

[opaque quartz]

Nothing worse than accidentally having a lower tier belt bottlenecking a manifold and not realizing it

Mk3 belts are “cheap” in the early-mid game since they only require steel beams

[crimson moat]

lower ranked belts will also slow manifold warmup

[opaque quartz]

True

[opal locust]

well that's HSCs and Computers automated for personal use. All that for 3 each per minute

[blazing falcon]

Hey guys, I'm watching a video on youtube and the guy is building from a top perspective, how do I build in this view?

[limber mortar]

you can use a lookout tower or two to get height but you might range out.
sometimes these are recorded from a second players perspective.

[thorn trail]

or Flight via Advanced Game Settings, or Hoverpack from Phase 4

[blazing falcon]

That advanced game settings thing is the one we setup before starting the game world, right?

[thorn trail]

yes, though it is also available when loading the game via the load settings

[blazing falcon]

Thanks. It blocks achievements though. 😦

[blazing falcon]

Yeah, it was someone else's recording him. Thank you

[opal locust]

I keep putting it off, but I need to start working on automating Phase 4 parts, but I'm going to need help figuring out each one.

[proven pawn]

chat, is this a good alt

[opal locust]

Instant Scrap is mostly used in a Battery factory right?

[proven pawn]

oml

scanned 6 harddrives and no pure aluminum ingots

cmon i dont want quartz in my recipe

[pastel obsidian]

That's rough man

[harsh schooner]

qurtz ez

[thick plank]

Quartz isnt that much of a hassle tbh.

There are use cases for every recepie, me personally prefer sloppy alumina cause with that you can get the highest bauxite ore->ingot conversion rate

[remote flame]

As Im certain Greeny would say too, there isn't really a 'bad' alt recipe, how you use it and where you use it all has its quirks or its downsides

In the case of Instant Scrap, It skips the Alumina solution stage in aluminium production. It is commonly used when combined with other alt recipes requiring Sulfuric Acid (Nuclear oriented recipes, Leached Ingots). However, the standard battery recipe needs Alumina solution as well as casings, something this recipe skips over, so it has that drawback.

Personally, I like using this alt recipe when it is making Aluminum products within my nuclear plant since I already have sulfuric acid on hand and reduces the size/# machines quite a bit 🙂

Has an identical Bauxite effectiveness (Bauxite->Scrap) as Sloppy + electrode as im sure mcgalleon is typing below haha

[oblique hollow]

One of the highest bauxite Efficiencies

At the cost of sulfur

Only matched by sloppy + electrode

So either you get those 2 and use tons of water and coke, or you use this one for less water and sulfur and coal

Most people go towards electrode + sloppy due to how far sulfur and coal tend to be away

[dreamy nimbus]

because you haven't unlocked recipes of anything else except batteries for the blender

[white bloom]

both bad, no rescans left --> don't pick either so both stay out of the recipe pool. 🤷‍♂️

[white bloom]

IMO no, I'd rather use Sloppy Alumina -> Electrode Aluminum Scrap. Both pathways have a 1:2 bauxite : scrap ratio, and I'd rather pay 1/15th HOR per scrap than 1/3rd Coal plus 1/6th Sulfur.

[oblique hollow]

Steel screw isnt bad. Its only useless if you dont use recipes that use screws

[proven pawn]

??
8 more harddrives and somehow no pure aluminum ingot
This is insane, how???

[near leaf]

hello, new to satisfactory but trying to understand what seems like a simple mechanic. I have the alternate wet concrete recipe, I have 3 pure limestone feeds and 6 individual water feeds. All buildings involved are overclocked but I can't understand why my 600 output T2 miners on limestone cannot consistently feed two refiners after a splitter. The two refiners say they use 300 limestone each and I have 600 total that is only being split once meaning both outputs should be 300 but somehow I run out of limestone in the refiners and they go into an idle state. I have tier 5 belts so they are moving the 600 limestone. Was just confused cause the numbers look like they make sense but im stuck at 80% efficiency , if anyone could explain I would be super grateful

[outer vale]

the belts coming out of the lifts look pretty empty. Are the lifts high enough tier? what about what's feeding them?

[thorn bane]

so youre only getting 480/min? sounds like a tier4 belt

[outer vale]

yeah 480 of 600 would match the ~80% efficiency on that refinery, so there's likely a t4 segment in there somewhere

[near leaf]

belts and lifts are tier five, miner is tier 2 and says 600 output. Ill double check everything again but i tried to be thorough before posting

got it ty

[tawdry blade]

Man I really dislike the fact that we can't get shorter conveyorlifts

[outer vale]

top and bottom of the lift are separate parts when done through a floor hole, make sure you check both halves

[near leaf]

yup user error, ty guys

[tardy stream]

What do you mean? They seem pretty short to me, can you post a picture?

[silent shoal]

If 600 m^3/min fluid enters

Will pipe A fill and only then pipe B fill?
Can this cause problems?
(Pipe A and B are MK1)

[dusky dust]

Yep, so long as everything that connects to A stays below that reverse-U-bend, B won't get fluid until A is completely full

Though I'd recommend putting them on separate dedicated systems anyway just for simplicity's sake. Pipes like being simple. :)

(And when I say "everything that connects to A stays below" I just mean the pipe connections; obvs the tops of the buildings themselves can go higher. :)

[oblique hollow]

its likely A and B will fill at the same time, roughly.

that upward bend must be made of 2 parts if you want that to not be the case

[dusky dust]

(Or, if McGalleon is providing different information, trust them, not me. :)

[silent shoal]

what do you mean

[oblique hollow]

the bend is not really an "upwards bend" if its a single pipe

[dusky dust]

Ohh right, yeah, good point

I suppose I'd always done that, back when I'd occasionally use an overflow like that

(usually constructed from stackable conveyor poles)

[oblique hollow]

it only recognizes this as a 1m increase

a flat pipe already shows 1m head lift

and to prove it....

50/50 split

and when i cut the pipe into 2 parts:

pipes do not care about the inbetween part.

they only care about the height difference of their 2 end points

if both end points have the same height, the pipe is considered "flat"

even this curved pipe has no height difference between left and right

[alpine steeple]

i love copper ingot and caterium ingot quickwire

[silent shoal]

So even if I raise the pipe to a height of 10 meters, as long as its 2 connection points are at the same height, will the pipe be considered flat?

[oblique hollow]

yes, if it is a SINGLE pipe segment

if its 2 seperate segments, then it naturally has different heights

since the game doesnt allow you to make a single pipe segment REALLY tall, this will never happen

so they dont consider the midpoint of the pipe when calculating height

[silent shoal]

Is there a good and compact way to do what I want?

[oblique hollow]

make 2 segments

so their endpoints are at different heights

[silent shoal]

The liquid comes into this pipe from a very high height
Will what you did be enough?

[oblique hollow]

you can go with 4 m if you want

it doesnt matter if your input liquid comes from 1000km high up or from 10 m
as long as the bottom pipe isnt full, the top pipe wont get much overflow

[silent shoal]

Won't get much overflow or won't get it at all?

[oblique hollow]

test it

[silent shoal]

ok thanks

[oblique hollow]

from what i can tell, any amount of head lift with mk 2 pipes at max flow means you need like 8 m height difference probably

though actually.... this is trash

mk 2 doesnt like this

you cant use overflow with maximum flow rate.
i forgot

[dusky dust]

Yeah, honestly the best solution is to just not build anything that needs overflow in the first place

[oblique hollow]

too much backflow into the junction

[dusky dust]

Use exactly as much fluid as you're producing, etc

[oblique hollow]

messes up the input flow

[dusky dust]

(And if you've got two separate production lines which need some fluid, just supply that fluid "directly" instead of trying to overflow from one to the other)

[oblique hollow]

@silent shoal sorry, forget everything i said.
you cant use this for Mk 2 Pipes at max flow
doesnt work no matter what you do

find a different solution to your problem.

[silent shoal]

And if I put a Valve before the U pipe

[oblique hollow]

no

doesnt help

[slate fox]

Moin

[opal locust]

Can someone help me with breaking down Phase 4 part automation? I know I should break it down into smaller parts, but it's a lot of small parts now.

[arctic saffron]

@crimson moat i finally finished it thanks for your help btw

[opal locust]

I guess the first major Phase 4 build I should work on is RCUs right?

Because that will open up Drones and Resource Well Pressurizers

[arctic saffron]

yes

i just made 2/min nothing drastic and it worked

[opal locust]

Yeah I don't need a massive amount per minute, just enough automated so I can start on other builds.

[arctic saffron]

yeah

mine is really simple

[opal locust]

Because I put the default RCU in a build planner and I get this.

I don't know if it or the alternates are a better option.

[arctic saffron]

this is literally mine

[dusky dust]

There's very rarely a "better" choice overall. You can choose some particular metric to optimize for, at which point you can pick a "best"

Like "I want to use as little coal as possible" -- you could figure out recipe chains which solve for that.

satisfactorytools.com tends to default to "use as few resources as possible," with the resources weighted by their global amounts available. With all alts enabled, that can lead to some really complex graphs since the most resource-efficient alts are often more complicated

What matters in the end is finding what you want to do

You can choose what alts you have currently available in the "Recipes" tab there and it'll attempt to use those

[opal locust]

That's the part I struggle with now that I'm in Phase 4

[tropic hawk]

you should see what UFR production looks like...

[dusky dust]

And you can toggle recipes on/off at will to see how they affect the chain

You can also break it up into chunks

Like optimizing RCUs overall feels a bit overwhelming

But you could instead create a little sub-factory which just makes Computers

And optimize/change that one however you like

And then a separate one for Crystal Oscillators, etc.

[opal locust]

So if I wanted to say "I want to make RCUs without Oil" which is technically doable with Crystal Computers and Silicon Circuit Boards right?

[dusky dust]

Even if you have all those sub-factories on the same site, it can help make sense of the overall plan, and make recipe choices a bit easier

[dusky dust]

Sure, with satisfactorytools.com you could achieve that by going to the "Items" tab and unchecking Crude Oil. (Though you'd need to have the right alts enabled)

sftools is pretty great since it's so easy to see how different recipes affect the chain. The instant you select/unselect anything, the graph at the bottom will be updated (if the change had any effect, anyway)

In the end I don't think you can get away from the fact that it tries to solve for "least resources," using the weights given in the Items tab, but that's often a decent starting point anyway

[tropic hawk]

if the recipe is older than u8 IIRC you can use the Old Beta site of it where you can give resources custom weights, or account for other metrics

[opal locust]

With alts I can get this with the default recipe

[dusky dust]

You can do custom weights on the current one too; AFAIK it's based entirely on the numbers in the Items tab. So if you want to make Iron comparatively expensive, can just set its quantity way down (for instance)

[outer vale]

I don't thiiink that affects the actual weights, just the limits

[dusky dust]

Okay you got me curious about that, and lol @ the april fool's icons on sftools. :D

(lol, @wind spade )

[outer vale]

yeah, easy test, make 10 compacted coal with just that alt. Uses 3.33 SAM by default.
Then turn the SAM max right down to like 4, and it'll still happily use it

[dusky dust]

yeah, agreed, shows what I know. :P

[wind spade]

honestly it's there for like 3 years and every year I forget to turn it off 😄

[outer vale]

think that's good you should look at his older tools page

[opal locust]

So, another question, would it be better to setup my Battery/Drone fueling station first, and then setup drone ports to deliver that aluminum input to my RCU factory?

[wind spade]

oh yeah that still works as well lol

[dusky dust]

If you're going to use drones for logistics, I'd definitely recommend setting up your fuel depot(s) for it first, be that battery or otherwise

[wind spade]

but that's not April mode, that's Australia mode

[opal locust]

I just figured Batteries would be the easiest because I don't have Rocket Fuel setup yet.

[dusky dust]

You can use just regular Fuel (or Turbofuel) if you like. Though yeah, Batteries seem quite reasonable to me since you're making aluminum stuff anyway

Just an extra couple of steps to turn that into some batteries

[opal locust]

And all I need for a Battery factory is a spot that has Bauxite/Coal/Sulfur within relative distance to each other?

[dusky dust]

(And Rocket Fuel would require aluminum to package anyway)

[opal locust]

It can be anywhere on the map since its' sole purpose is to deliver batteries to the rest of the drone ports around the map?

[cinder silo]

Daft question on my part, I looked at the rocket fuel numbers , 4.16667 m3/min , added +140% which went to 10.000008 per minute, though the game only deals with four decimal places, will I have momentary stalls with generators going at 240%, or will it just class it as 10.0000 per minute?

[outer vale]

technically rocket fuel is (25 / 6) per minute

so 240% of that is exactly 10

since the per-minute is calculated back from energy value you should be fine

[civic bronze]

If it does it would take years to notice yellow light on a machine for a split second

[outer vale]

that too

0.000008 per minute is about 4.20 (lol) per year, you wouldn't miss it even if it did round like that

[cinder silo]

I hope so heh, I'm in the middle of building this, each stack will have sitting on top, 8 floors of 30 fuel generators, and it's backed by a serious power amp station only made possible because a patch respawned all the sloops I collected.

[opal locust]

So would a good spot for a Battery factory be Crater Lake? If I shard that impure sulfur node to 250%, I can use this setup to make 60 Batteries/min.

Which should be more than enough to fuel all the drones I would ever need.

[dusky dust]

Yep, though I recommend doing it in the opposite direction: The fuel depot has one or more ports which do not have a drone set on them. Use an Industrial Storage Container (or two) in front of each as a buffer. Then any drone site which needs fuel will have a dedicated fuel-fetcher drone which fetches fuel from one of those ports

When a drone isn't able to fully unload (because the port is full), it'll sit there until it's able to get rid of the whole load. So past the initial couple of runs to acquire fuel, the fuel-fetcher drones will just sit there doing nothing

(ie: the depot ports will remain open for any other site which needs fuel)

The ISC buffer is useful because as you spin up new drone sites, the fuel-fetcher will be taking 2-3 loads all at once (well, in a row)

So the ISC prevents that from starving your existing sites of fuel

[opal locust]

So, I build the battery factory, but build the drone that grabs the fuel at each factory, and when they don't need to grab fuel, they'll sit at home base instead of at the battery factory.

That makes more sense.

I just need to give the fuel grabber drone an initial supply of batteries, and they'll be fine forever?

[cinder silo]

With the ever so slight discrepancy if the game even picks up on the beyond 4 decimals heh, I could let the gas fill a buffer per generator floor then it would take a sickening amount of time to choke up 😄

[opal locust]

It just feels like Drones are meant for Phase 4 and 5. Where you're moving more and more complicated parts in smaller quantities to get further refined. Where as Trains are for bulk transport of simpler materials to go get refined into said complicated parts.

[real fossil]

ok... semi noob here, sorry if im in the wrong place... how many water extractors do I need per charcoal generators? I have 9 generators total, I've read that 1 is sufficient for 3 gens but i seem to not keep the 3rd generator with enough water

[arctic saffron]

my polymer resin clogged up because i used wrong conveyor 🫠 so now i have to fix it tmr

[arctic saffron]

each coal gen uses 45water/min 1 water generator makes 120

[real fossil]

ive been on this damn game all night... what have yall done to me?!?!?!

[dusky dust]

Yep, just need to plop enough down to get it to the fuel depot for the first time. (I generally just slap down a stack of whatever fuel I'm carrying and then pick up the remainder once the drone's gobbled up some)

[arctic saffron]

so either overclock 1 water gen to 135 or underclock a coal gen to 30water/min

[real fossil]

im probably overthinking this... so, 9 generators... 1 water per 3gen. just underclock 1 to 30 and it SHOULD even out?

[tropic hawk]

how many pipes do you have?

[real fossil]

omg... that matters?

[outer vale]

how much does one pipe support?

[tropic hawk]

pipes do not have infinite throughput

[civic bronze]

Your plan looks so clean! Wish i waited for alu alts before i did mine

[opal locust]

Well I'm crazy and always unlock all alternates before doing builds.

I even went so far as to completely scour the map of hard drives in advance for Phase 5

[civic bronze]

🥲 🫡

[outer vale]

now just gotta decide which alts to use for everything

[civic bronze]

I did 240/min, wonder how much im using, im too lazy to check on scim tho

[outer vale]

I did 90 batteries/min with 225 sulphur so those numbers check out

[alpine steeple]

meta ?

[primal raptor]

@delicate yew

[teal urchin]

yeah so.. A train wont be able to move 900/m worth of ore, will it? xD

Not a super far distance.. Kinda that awkward distance where you dont wanna run really long belts, but a train may be a bit unnecessary

[dusky dust]

Trains excel at high-throughput transfers. 900/min would be a piece of cake

[teal urchin]

Well ill give it a shot then. Setting up a huge turbofuel plant so.. need lots of sulfur and coal!

[outer vale]

might need more than one carriage, depending on distance

[teal urchin]

Question. Lets say I got my blueprints setup and i wanna do this.. How do I connect the belts easily? Cause at that distance it just tells me the belts are "too short"

[civic bronze]

difference alts can do

also what i found is that basic rotor recipe is way more iron efficent than steel rotor with using iron pipe

wait no its not, never mind

[gloomy shoal]

Out of curiousity, what sets of recipes do most people use for Nuclear Power?

[cerulean stratus]

Alright so we got priority mergers now. So it's a replacement for belt compressors

But it also allows you to use a main line with a supporting line

[wooden jasper]

get leached iron ingots and leached copper and it will be even better

[civic bronze]

sulfur is very rare tho - if you wanna use rare resources you can remove whole iron at all and do it like so with bauxite

[wind spade]

I never seen the need for belt compressors tbh

[civic bronze]

man i love alternate recipes, i been playing for a while now but it still feels so new and weird, imagine it in factorio

[opal locust]

I know I talked earlier about making a battery factory for drones. but what if I just went for the rocket fuel factory and siphoned some off to make packaged rocket fuel for myself and the drones?

[dusky dust]

Sure, rocket fuel is a good drone fuel

[opal locust]

I'm just trying to picture how it would work. Simply leave some rocket fuel as overhead to go into a packager, Give it an initial supply of aluminum casings, then setup 2 drone ports, 1 to grab more aluminum casings, and 1 to act as the fuel bay?

[dusky dust]

Yeah, priming it with some manually-fed tanks should work fine

(Empty Fluid Tank, btw, not Aluminum Casing. :)

[sage nexus]

I'm very new to the game, and I built my first power plant with coal generators but I've found another location to build on and was wondering if I can optimize how I funnel the coal and water pipes in the new location

[opal locust]

I see this as what a lot of people tout as the ultimate non-nuclear power generation build, but that's a lot of sulfur and nitrogen

[civic bronze]

Nitrogen is fairly simple to transport, you can do yours with 1 drone and 2 ports

Sulfur sigh well good luck!

[opal locust]

Which is why I'm thinking I should just stick to the battery plan first and then dedicate a small portion of rocket fuel for my jetpack and explorer

And I was going to do the rocket fuel plant in the blue crater as a lot of people tend to do because everything is right there.

[proven pawn]

How much better is rocket fuel vs turbofuel for power generation

[civic bronze]

Hard to really measure it, as yeah its better but also u need more resources, more gens and its more complex

Eyeballing it i would give it x3 in term of better'ness

[opal locust]

Going by that planner, 2400 rocket fuel would need, what, 230 fully sharded fuel generators to burn through?

[civic bronze]

Thats shard expensive

[proven pawn]

Could you get by just using turbofuel?

[vapid gorge]

you can get by on fuel

[vapid gorge]

look, every step of fuel you go up is effectively just trading other resources for more oil.

is that trade good for you? maybe. I can't tell you.

you could just get a diluted fuel recipe and make a ton of diluted fuel. There's loads of oil on the map

[opaque quartz]

One pure oil node (600/min) will generate 20 GW with diluted fuel and doesn’t require anything other than water. No coal/sulfur/nitrogen logistics to worry about

[vapid gorge]

find a bigger oil field , turn it all to diluted fuel and you can manage on just that unless you're going very big

[pastel obsidian]

at some point you need to use sulfur for something

[vapid gorge]

or at the very least get you to nuclear easily

[vapid gorge]

you are forced to use them in batteries for a space part, yes

[opal locust]

I know, but my point was, that planner doesn't seem suitable until you can reliably make Mk3 Miners

[dusky dust]

Batteries were removed from the MFG recipe, btw

[vapid gorge]

iirc there aren't many pure sulfur nodes, so mk3 miners and mk6 belts don't affect that much

[vapid gorge]

were they now?? wild. ok you aren't forced to use sulfur in the game

[dusky dust]

(Which I still find slightly weird since batteries were the only thing approaching a challenge for MFGs, but I suppose the rest of Phase 4 remains beefy)

[pastel obsidian]

You don't need batteries all playthrough

[opal locust]

Yes but Mk6 belts aren't until Phase 5

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, that and making drones use any fuel basically killed batteries

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it was a weird decision IMO, especially given that something generating a magnetic field could really use something like a battery. :)

[vapid gorge]

that's what I'm saying, it doesn't impact sulfur since you only need mk6 on pure nodes

[dusky dust]

Batteries are still used in one alt recipe still, too, though I don't remember which one

[vapid gorge]

they really over simplified a lot of thigns

[opal locust]

But the Blue Crater has a pure sulfur node

[vapid gorge]

map wide - it makes very little impact.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I agree to an extent, though I found I actually didn't mind basically all the changes. There's still plenty of challenge + gameplay to be had in there. The only things I sort of "mind" about most of the changes is sort of the more "logical justification" angle

Like it makes sense that MFGs would need batteries, or that trains would need HMFs, etc

But in the end I think they were by and large pretty reasonable balance changes

[vapid gorge]

eh, they made it so you could cut steel out of your world. Steel.

[dusky dust]

I still got like 400 hours out of my 1.0 playthrough, and felt like things remained complex enough for me. :D

[opal locust]

At any rate, I don't really need to worry about Rocket Fuel just yet, between my diluted fuel plant, alien power augmenters, and the extra bit from my old coal plant and the addition of geothermal generators, I'm already over 60GW in power production and I probably haven't even crossed 10GW yet in usage.

[vapid gorge]

or ever really.

[opal locust]

I'll definitely have to add more power production once I get to Phase 5

[vapid gorge]

would you? I got by on way less than 60 for it.

I think I was sitting at 30gw

[dusky dust]

I think my own world was using ~60GW at the end (out of 100GW production); can definitely build smaller though

[wooden jasper]

what how? I'm in tier 7 and I already use 16GW

[vapid gorge]

yeah, a fair chunk of my factory was idle a lot of the time, but with a 60gw budget that's not even tightening my belt

[opal locust]

I'm slowly expanding across the map, I think you can tell where my power plants are.

[vapid gorge]

let factories go idle and fill up 🙂

[opal locust]

Idle? but think of the coupons!

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, my 1.0 save had basically everything running at 100%. Got pretty close to a second Golden Nut by the time I'd finished my post-assembly checklist!

Was thinking I might famliarize myself with the new cosmetic bits in Experimental, since I left myself with quite a few undecorated factories; perhaps I'll make it all the way there yet!

[opal locust]

I'm still proud I managed to do this diluted fuel plant. 600 oil into 20 refineries into 16 blenders into 32 generators

[wooden jasper]

my world is pretty packed though for tier 7

I don't even have caterium stuff really. I make like 22 circuit boards/min, no high speed connector, no ai limiter

no HMF

only 3.75 computers/min

just a lot of really large structures

I made 3200 steel ingots/min before getting a single HMF

[opal locust]

My plan is to sort of work along the map clockwise and do Phase 5 in the dune desert

[wooden jasper]

I spawned in Dune Desert because I thought Northern Forest was too easy

but dune desert was evil when I needed oil

[opal locust]

isn't Northern Forest pretty bad now after they nerfed that one cliff everyone was using?

[wooden jasper]

there's just straight-up none

[wooden jasper]

nah it's super OP

This cliff?

there's almost nothing on the whole map that's better than this

the extra rocky spots made my build really dumb-looking though

I had to expand this weird branch arm and also wrap a train track around one

this factory makes 1800 steel ingots into 200 encased beams and 900 steel ingots as extra for steel beams later on

pretty much uses all the oil in the north as well as 2 pure iron nodes, 2 pure coals (?), a pure copper, 2 pure and 1 normal limestone, and lots of electricity

[vapid gorge]

no?

every area is good for different things with different recipes

[civic bronze]

ayy im just planning a build here

[wooden jasper]

I meant that in terms of resource abundance + the variety of pure nodes. Of course there are some other spots with good stuff, but the fact that this spot is super good and also in the middle of the map makes it the goat imo

[opal locust]

I think I've narrowed it down to two spots to where I want to make my battery factory, both have their pros and cons.

Both are going to take a lot of moving resources together, but they're the closest sets of nodes to each other that I could find.

[dusky dust]

My own drone battery factory was basically right in your rightmost circle there. :D

[vapid gorge]

have you tried the east swamp?

[opal locust]

I have nothing near the swamp and these two locations are closer to all of my factories

[vapid gorge]

so? you'll have to do a bunch of logistics for this to bring it all together. might as well do it in one spot and drone your batteries somewhere

[dusky dust]

('course with drones the nice thing is you don't have to care where anything is ever again. :D)

[vapid gorge]

oh they moved the sulfur node in the swamp, nm

[dusky dust]

But honestly IMO those spots are fine; as you say, pretty much everything you need is right there

[opal locust]

I kind of wanted to save the swamp for nuclear

[dusky dust]

I enjoyed setting up some tractor lines for the battery material supply; had to be quite twisty to get over where it needed to be

[crimson moat]

You need to continually make empty fluid tanks as they are deleted when used by jetpack or vehicles.

[crimson moat]

That recipe is extremely sulphur-inefficient

[opal locust]

Look I don't know what I'm doing okay?

[crimson moat]

Not trying to fight you, just help 😛

[opal locust]

I don't know what to build or where to build it and when I come up with something people tell me it's bad

I'm basically stalled here until I can figure out how to get aluminum to my eventual RCU factory and then I have to start thinking about all the Tier 8 items

[crimson moat]

This is a lot higher sulphur efficiency, i don't remember if it was absolute max or not (without sloops)

[civic bronze]

Sounds to me like you've got everything figured out, taking advice is good but trying to listen to 100 people you will only find they dont agree with eachother

[crimson moat]

tl;dr

Make HOR
send some to coke, then send that to turbo blend fuel
send some to diluted fuel, then that to turbo blend fuel
send the rest directly to turbo blend fuel
(add sulphur to finish). This is your biggest product.

create nitric acid and add it to create rocket fuel (easy part)

use the byproduct compacted coal from rocket fuel to make more rocket fuel - optional and trickier, but gives 26.31% more per sulphur

600 sulphur yields 2526 rocket fuel which is enough for like 150gw of power plus all drones and jetpack

[opal locust]

So should I even bother with a battery factory?

[crimson moat]

I didn't

rocket fuel is nice as it also provides power and jetpack fuel

so you can get a lot done at once

[ancient mauve]

Only if that seems fun to do

[pastel obsidian]

It's okay used in one super computer alt

[ancient mauve]

The closer to the endgame you get, the more steps become somewhat optional. There are workarounds for the workarounds.

[pastel obsidian]

But it's good to do if you want to do it all

[opal locust]

that supercomputer alt looks really annoying

[ancient mauve]

QED not fun

Don't do not fun things

[opal locust]

Honestly OC Supercomputer looks super easy assuming you get an RCU factory and a Cooling System factory and just drone the parts together.

[pastel obsidian]

Having a T2 power storage that needs batteries would have been cool

It's all about tradeoffs

[crimson moat]

That, but mass producing RCU's and cooling systems has its own headaches 😛

you need more RCU's for OC supercomputers etc than you actually need in RCU's

[opal locust]

I just don't know what I should do next.

[fallow siren]

OC supercomputer is nice and fairly easy to do

[crimson moat]

I am automating them all with OC supercomputer, but yeah p4 is a lot harder and longer than earlier phases

[opal locust]

I basically spent the last few days doing all sorts of other things(hunting hard drives and sloops, tidying up my Phase 1-3 factories, etc.) to hold off on this because I don't know what to do

[fallow siren]

iirc i also used OC supercomputer alt when automating neural quantum processor

it doesnt use a lot of space