math-and-meta

[opaque quartz]

In general when an alt requires more resources it has a higher yield

Heat fused frame makes 3/min whereas the default recipe makes 1.5/min. cycle time is half as long

[hushed silo]

so i put more stuff in to get it faster

thats all it is

ig it uses less aluminum

[opaque quartz]

It would be more accurate to say it takes in heavy frames twice as fast. Batch size for that resource is 1 in both recipes

So if you are trying to generate FMF at a higher rate and have the resources available, you could use this alt to produce at a rate twice as fast

[inner kettle]

I am quite new to the game and I was wondering what would be meta factories for phase 3? I saw people doing for example 20 motors per minute. It looks like it’s a lot for that phase but I guess you will use them. I don’t want them solved. I just need a number and I will plan the factories myself. Is there any list of such recommended factories? Or maybe should I optimise per inputs or current belt speeds?

[hushed silo]

generaly id recommend planning around the area

you scan the area, acknowledge what you can make there

and plan with growth in mind

like you spot a place with 3 pure coal and iron with some copper, perfect place for steel

by the end game pure node can make 1200 ore per minute

so always play with growth in mind

dedicate a place to make something specific and later on move that part with truck, train or drone

20 motors /m is alot in the beginning i agree, you probably dont need this much even at the start

however later on demands increases

another approach is to make factories final, like utilizing every resource near you for specific thing or multiple parts

and then you move on into other areas

but its hard to finalize something at early stages because you probably dont have alot of alternate recipies unlocked or your mind will change on how to appraoch stuff

however this game is very open and you cant make something bad

[inner kettle]

Thanks

[hushed silo]

in the end in comes down to "how do i wanna do it"

and you can do alot of customization to the smallest detail

so, set yourself a goal, keep growth in mind, like adding another row or another floor

have fun while at it

the only thing you can fuck up is uranium plant that keeps on overdoing waste xd

[inner kettle]

This is my second or tbh 3rd try to complete it. I tried to do it without looking stuff up on the previous one. Just when I unlocked something I built a bulding that could craft it and made sure it ran at 100%. Now it seems that it might be a little too low for the requirements later in the game. And looking stuff up really made the game more smooth to play.

Like I knew I should do research but that was not my priority and now I regret not doing that

[opaque quartz]

Honestly, if you are not sure, just target one or two machines making those high tier parts, whatever that works out to

When you progress you will learn what your increasing needs are. You can build more factories to support it at that time

Trying to “future proof” is a fast track to burnout. Better to make tangible progress towards goals/milestones/etc

[inner kettle]

Ok thanks.

[opaque quartz]

Also, don’t be afraid to use production planners to help you work out what you need before you start building

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

Heavy modular frames are usually the thing that people get stuck on in phase 3. Default recipe makes 2/min so two manufacturers running at full efficiency gives you a decent amount for buildings and elevator parts and such

Remember, there is no time limit or anything (despite what ADA sometimes says needling you about your progress)

[hushed silo]

one last thing id say about this game is that when you want to get serious planning takes alot of time, maybe even the same ammount as doing stuff itself
so dont be hard on yourself for not knowing what to do, figuring it out is a part of the process

[plucky tusk]

yeah i mean i been plannin my 15 hmf frames for days now all i got is a rough idea

got all the resources checked an know what i need to build

just gotta plan each factory now

[inner kettle]

Which phase are you in?

[plucky tusk]

its on a server havent been on ina day so i dont really know

around 3 or 4

planned it around mk5 belts and trains tho

mk3 miners

[vapid kernel]

Pure iron ore factory. A logistical nightmare. 5th day doing the inner building layout. 1 floor = input of 2x1200ppm. Output of 4x 1200ppm. Each of the outputs will link to 4 platforms which = a turn around time of 2:40 per platform. I'm using so many platforms since I don't want to block the spiral with trains having them set to full load and having room for a spare train. For the input stations I'm planning to just build another building close by with it's own spiral and belt them in. Input stations will be varying sizes. Pure iron recipe does not round to 1200ppm so a merge and overflow to and from each belt is also needed

[vapid gorge]

There’s no real meta for the game and research is only good for generalities

Satisfactory really is a sandbox. The milestones are basically there to guide you through new mechanics and prep you to build your own projects and goal 🙂 so don’t stress about it

Don’t try to future proof is a good rule though

[plucky tusk]

lol that’s pretty much what I’m planning rn. Probably smaller tho

Getting like 6600 water from that lake then I’ll probably build over it. Then I just got the 4 pure nodes to bring in. The other 3 are like right there

There’s like 9 normal nodes but hopefully won’t need them 🙏

[vapid kernel]

I have 4 pure nodes beneath the building. 2 for each floor. Hopefully this layout works and I can now make many more floors. Ideally all iron ingot production is done here. this floor and old setups are at their limit now

[vapid kernel]

My plan is to have 1 building making 1 item and have it be ever expandable. Enough for all items in the game and more if it were to get added. The ever expandable bit makes it so hard. My way is by adding more floors of the same or similar things when it is needed. Those pipes coming up in the bottom left of the building have that whole concrete section reserved for more. Along with every pipe bend. Including access

What I didn't realise is that the most basic materials in the game require the most work. I'm doing the worst ones first it seems

This pure iron recipe and the probably pure concrete recipe is more extreme than I first thought. Already so much of them on the map

With this building I am using under 1/3 for machines and that is with the first time splitting input deliveries in to another building. Spiral throughput and height of the building may make me build more in another location which is a new thing

[quaint bear]

Need some help here, I followed the instructions on how to build the turbine interchange but one of the blocks (the green one) has the "signal loops into itself" error, anyone know what could be causing this and how to fix it?

this is a very important interchange in our world with a very high train flow, so a regular roundabout was struggling a bit, thats why i decided on swappping it for a turbine, but with this error in place my trains are as good as bricked

[north mauve]

Might be because of verticality. Path signals get upset when two rail touch and are not perfectly flat together

[quaint bear]

Turbine interchanges are advantageous over regular roundabouts because they dont use Paths at all

[vapid kernel]

The sign in the middle of the green area is not needed. Treat all the green as 1 intersection

[quaint bear]

They do take a large amount of blocks, but zero path signals

[quaint bear]

Which one do you mean? The one where the train is stopped, the one on the overpass or another one?

[vapid kernel]

the yellow flashing one furthest away

gimme a sec to think

[quaint bear]

This one?

[vapid kernel]

Yeah. Though I now see how you might want 2 trains at once

Are they all block signs you have?

[quaint bear]

All blocks

[vapid kernel]

It looks correct. I think you are just getting a bug that does that sometimes. Replacing a section will split it in to 2

As it should be. At that same sign location

[quaint bear]

I got this bug once in another junction if thats the case, tho idr how i did to fix it that time

[vapid kernel]

Just replace the track and sign at the circled location. I think

or 1 piece at a time

to not lose positioning

[crimson moat]

Not complaining, just coming from having recipies enabled if unlocked and pointing out / asking about some behaviors that i didn't expect

[quaint bear]

Ok, i’ll write this down and test it tomorrow, cause right now its way past 3am and i need some Zs lol

[vapid kernel]

The other parts of the intersection look split and have the same signs

Just not that green part of track

[crimson moat]

🔥 🔥

[blissful heart]

Is this a good steel setup?

[crimson moat]

The multiples of 45 are pretty odd to work with, i usually underclock to 40 cause e.g. iron/coal comes in multiples of 60/120

otherwise it is good but i think undersized because beams and EIB's are both belt materials, you need them by the thousands

[blissful heart]

Yeah, it's just to get it into production, I'm planning in expanding later on

[magic dock]

If there are multiple path signals after each other will a train still reserve part of the path if say the last block is still occupied or does it need a fully clear path?

Because I have a spot where there is a chance a lot of of trains can pass through in a short amount of time so if its the latter I'm of course better off having a regular block in between two spots that need a path signal.

But if its the first I can do path signals everywhere on that stretch so they don't slow down unnecessarily if its fully clear

Here is the lay-out in question, I am talking about the block signals top left that I colored yellow

[vapid kernel]

The train will be in 1 path while another train is in the next

[magic dock]

So if I change that block signal I marked to a path signal it should be fine

[vapid kernel]

I can't tell which are the marked ones. I rarely use scim

[magic dock]

Green is block

I marked it with yellow top left at the junction

[vapid kernel]

ah yeah. I see

I'd leave it and put a path signal at the start of the next intersection

[magic dock]

Just tried it out, all path signals does not work so block signal in between it is

[vapid kernel]

I'm not sure what the white ones are but those look like path signs ideally

[magic dock]

Green is block, blue is path, white is switch

[vapid kernel]

All paths is possible

I'm playing around with it now

[magic dock]

I am doing as well but if I change those on that horizontal stretch to path they want a fully clear path

[vapid kernel]

I parked a train. Another train pulled up in the path behind. A 3rd train tried to enter the path in front of the parked train but no go since the path ahead of the one being parked is reserved

Ones after that would not be reserved

[wind spade]

@unborn mason there's no wrong choice with recipes, all of them are useful in certain scenarios and you can get all of them anyway, so just pick whichever you like (or leave the choice until you do research)

[hushed silo]

at this point make train tracks stackable and have each train ride on a seperate line for optimized travel distance and time spent

(not realy but ya know)

[plucky tusk]

Yeah i would have 310 refineries for 7 pure and 9 normal. Mk5 belts

also gotta make like 8k+ screws so gonna have to do steel too, and theres not enough coal there so we doin coke steel😎

[hushed silo]

coke enjoyer

so you only need 1.875 oil for 7.5 iron spent

[vapid kernel]

Screws will be upcoming for me soon. Possibly 2 factories. 1 for each of the alt recipes

[hushed silo]

where for solid you need 1:1 iron and coal

[plucky tusk]

We doin coke

[hushed silo]

and you need 3.55 times more coal than

[vapid kernel]

hmm

[hushed silo]

oil*

[plucky tusk]

Yeah hor to pet coke

Gonna be makin pet coke for circuit boards anyway

[hushed silo]

and there is 3.357 more coal than oil on map

well you are using 1.125 more iron with coke

but iron is never a limitign factor

hmmm, they seem comperable resource draw wise

[vapid kernel]

No clear winner for me. Using up those non rare resources is something I need to more of

[hushed silo]

however you can brag about how much coke you are making 😎

[hushed silo]

yes

personaly id use coke for aluminum

when i was calculating with all nodes pure

to refine all of 17 pure bauxite nodes id need 15% of global coal and only 7.5% global oil (all pure too)

[vapid kernel]

That makes me want to use coal

Oil seems useful for a lot more things

[hushed silo]

that is true

oil is more versitile

but generaly with good recipies you can make shitton of plastic and rubber with it

while coal is guzzled up by diamonds

[plucky tusk]

My problem is im playing on a server and i don’t really have access to global resources just the ones around me

[hushed silo]

as i said, they are very comperable, so logistics and local availability play a bigger role

but i think you get a bit more aluminum from coke than coal, dont remember how much tho

[white bloom]

save coal for diamonds. Rocket Fuel power, turn the coke byproduct from that into steel. Catch two birds with one stone.

[hushed silo]

it byproducts compacted not coke tho

personaly i turn that compacted into turbo fuel for turbo diamonds

[white bloom]

am I just mixing stuff up? wait lemme check the wiki real quick

right, I actually meant compacted. I recommend producing all your steel via compacted steel ingot, sourcing all that compacted coal from rocket fuel byproduct

[plucky tusk]

That won’t be enough unfortunately. Plus dudes already did a huge turbo fuel power so im kinda stuck with coke steel 🫠

It’s fine tho just makin steel screws and eib

[hushed silo]

compacted into steel doesnt seem like a worthwhile idea tbh

its just a small ammount

[plucky tusk]

525 compacted coke

[vapid kernel]

I don't know if I'm missing something but don't we only need a small amount of diamonds along with having lots of alt recipes for it. Due to sam limitations in the chain

[hushed silo]

depends on how much ionzied fuel u wanna make

otherwise you only need some for belts

[plucky tusk]

Ima need like 10x as much compacted coke

Which is a waste of sulfur imo

[hushed silo]

exactly

[plucky tusk]

Also like i said

Not enough coal

[hushed silo]

that can make you 2100 steel actualy

from half the ammount of iron ore

[plucky tusk]

I think that would over complicate things

Cuz then I gotta make rocket fuel on top of the 15hmf

Already building like 5 factories

[hushed silo]

oh no no no

dont make rocket fuel for compacted xD

[plucky tusk]

But uh. Probably just gonna do coke

Coke enjoyer here

[white bloom]

with a good mix of Nitro Rocket Fuel and Rocket Fuel you can produce around 929 compacted coal /min, of which you can feed 296 back into Turbo Fuel and divert 633 into producing Compacted Steel Ingots. Which nets you around 2533 Steel Ingots /min, whose only real use in late game anyways is to be fed into Molded Beam.

[vapid kernel]

A bag of satisfactory

[hushed silo]

"whenever coke recipe is available..."

(i dont support drugs, for the record)

[white bloom]

~950 Steel Beams /min of which 723 /min can go into Flexible Framework and 227 /min are needed to upcycle Plutonium Fuel Rods

[hushed silo]

molded beam seems

why would not want to produce more cocnrete?

besides pipes are better way

[vapid kernel]

I'm not going on the record

[white bloom]

hm? I mean Concrete is cheap to make and a great way to get more Beams out of your Steel Ingots here

[hushed silo]

you can do that but personaly i only view encased pipe as mandatory product from steel

and even then you can iron it out

[white bloom]

1.5x as many beams in fact

pipes? hm

[hushed silo]

oh yea

encased pipe has better efficiency than encased beam

[white bloom]

what are you using the pipes on?

[white bloom]

Wait my bad. I should've rather asked: why not make them from Iron Pipe instead? 🤔

[hushed silo]

you can

and never bother with steel

[white bloom]

well the Steel Beams can be used to make Versatile Frameworks (efficiently via the Flexible Framework recipe), which in turn can be made into Magnetic Field Generators, which in turn can be made into AI Expansion Servers

[wind spade]

because it's expensive

[white bloom]

actually not as expensive as using more valuable or limited resources than Iron Ore to produce those pipes when that's avoidable

[hushed silo]

it is definately expensive on teh iron

[white bloom]

I mean yes, it needs a lot of iron, but there also is a lot of iron abundantly available

[inland quail]

when I need to split items like this, very unevenly, can I use one splitter, and just let it "warm up" like a manifold would?

[hushed silo]

most likely yes

cant imagine how many splitters and mergers it would take to even it out

you can always split the production machines and use two belts

[wind spade]

using a lot of iron is still expensive

[hushed silo]

under/over clock some of them to match the input needed

[wind spade]

valuable/limited has nothing to do with it given that 99.9% of people won't run out of any of those resources

[hushed silo]

its one of these rare cases when i fully agree with greeny

very unlikely you will run out of coal for steel

even when you use only solid still alt

you can make tens of thousands steel ingots

question is what for

even if you automate all of your production to be running on steel

which is again why? because you dont need to save on iron

[white bloom]

shadow price in awesome points for reference:

• on steel ingot is 832.67
• Iron Ingot is 141.84
• Concrete is 190.75
  Which means the cost paid for 1 Steel Pipe produced by
• default: 3 * 832.67 / 2 = 1249
• Iron Pipe: 20 * 141.84 /5 = 567.36
• Molded Steel Pipe: (5 * 832.67 + 3 * 190.75) /5 = 947.12
  So the Iron Pipe route is indeed the cheapest in that regard

not considering local scarcity or the like. I get it if you just set up a huge turbo power plant it doesn't suit your situation well, just in general

not too shabby

[wind spade]

sink point cost is based on base recipes, so obviously alts will do things differently

[hushed silo]

why are u bringing sink points into this tho

[wind spade]

^

[white bloom]

sorry, had to go afk for a while. I'll address the points now

[white bloom]

Shadow prices reflect the true value of the item with regard to the goal (here awesome points), considering available resources, power and both base and alt recipes, not just base recipes.

[wind spade]

except that value is heavily subjective

[white bloom]

We were running into the issue of comparing apples and oranges. We said Iron is pretty cheap but you need more of it than the other resources so is that overall still cheap or not? Need a measure of cheapness / expensiveness / value. Points are just kind of what's out there, i.e. what the game offers to assign value to items in some sense, a go-to measure for when to compare stuff. Also kind of the only thing you can do indefinitely in this game and the thing that's needed for the longest time to unlock everything there is (all the sculptures in the awesome shop take many times longer than the milestones or project assembly stages, for example). So I just went with it to have any usable measure of value here.

[wind spade]

sure, but then the measure should be base ores

[white bloom]

Note though the shadow prices aren't using the nominal value in points the game gives you for throwing one such item into the sink, rather how many points you can get out of having one more such item by using it as good as possible

(that's going to be at least the nominal value, but usually it's higher than that)

[white bloom]

the value with regard to that (or any specified) goal is actually not subjective, just the goal itself is arbitrary of course

[white bloom]

wdym?

[wind spade]

how do you define "use as good as possible"?

[white bloom]

extra points/min for getting +1 of that item/min "magically out of nowhere" compared to not getting that, keeping all else the same (world resources, like usual, and self-sustaining on power and not accumulating or running deficient on any items).

[wind spade]

ah, so pointless subjective valuation

[white bloom]

so you look at the max points/min you could get with +1/min extra and without, the difference in that is (points/min)/(item/min) = points/item

[white bloom]

that's no less subjective than 1+1=2

it's just math. the scenario, i.e. the goal, is arbitrary. I guess this is what you mean with subjective. But it's not the same thing

[wind spade]

it's very much subjective valuation

you picked a subjective goal to work towards

(which is pointless due to that situation being impossible to happen)

[white bloom]

the valuation is not. the valuation is derived as a calculation result from that goal. You cannot get any other numbers from that same goal scenario

[wind spade]

the goal is subjective

[white bloom]

Anyone who calculates the values for this scenario gets the same values

so the values are not subjective

the goal is subjective, yes

[wind spade]

and pointless due to that thing being impossible to happen

so it has no real value

[white bloom]

it is arbitrary

you can propose another goal that shall be used for the comparison, and we can derive the values for that goal, and compare again

[white bloom]

that's throwing out the baby with the bathwater

here laid out the reasoning why I went with that as a "default", go-to goal: #math-and-meta message
You're free to propose an in your opinion more reasonable default goal. This isn't a rhetorical trap.

But we can only discuss and compare recipes with regard to a specified goal, we need one to base the discussion on

[wind spade]

since the comparison has no real value anyway, I don't see a reason to bring arguments to it

[white bloom]

but we want to compare. People here want to compare. This is the #math-and-meta channel. Why are you trying to shut it all down? I don't get it. We get definitive results for any scenario we choose to look at and bother to solve. Isn't that a great thing? Propose more scenarios instead of just spitting into everyone's soup

If you refuse the premise of applying math to the game (while being conscious about the assumptions going into it and the limitations that apply) perhaps you're literally in the wrong channel. It's made all the more confusing by you yourself having actually bothered to create such an optimizer, which isn't perfect, but a pretty good feat and extremely well usable in exactly that direction that you've grown to resent since then for whatever reason.

[wind spade]

I've never claimed the optimiser is "the way to go", nor do I think there's a "way to go" that could be defined

the optimisation goal was chosen simply because there needed to be one

but the goal is ultimately personal choice

[bleak jungle]

How to build this? Does anyone have any ideas on how I should build this? I would like to build a storage system, I sort where the semicircle is with all the containers.

Now the question is, how should I do this? I unload -> then sort -> store it in the right container

But I would also like to collect something from the large station, for example, if I need iron plates for a production. (I'm currently building a Train World) so that I can pick them up.

What is the best way to do this? I don't have a clue at the moment.

[wind spade]

can also never mix items, so don't need to sort

and generally this is solved by dimensional depots

so you don't even need to build central storage at all

[bleak jungle]

i have a train which get all things from map and bring it to train station (main)

[wind spade]

yeah, just put a depot in each factory and don't even need that train 😛

[bleak jungle]

I do this actually like this with dimensional depot.

but i want to do it with trains.

How can i do this with trains? - this my question

[wind spade]

have a train deliver things, have a train distribute things, as you said

[bleak jungle]

That's clear, but how do I do that at the station? so that the train can pick things up there? Because it unloads things, then they are taken up to the depot where they are stored.

Then let's say a train comes to pick up something (e.g. iron plates) - how does the freight platform know what the train needs? I have to bring it down from the depot... somehow. and I don't always want to just pick up iron plates at a freigh station, but it could also be iron bars.

[wind spade]

separate station, one station can't do both

and need separate car for each item

[bleak jungle]

bruh.. why that so shitty? xD

[wind spade]

because that's not how the game was designed

[bleak jungle]

I need for each item i want to deliver a own freight and station... xd

[wind spade]

it was designed around having the depot and not needing to deliver anything

and no, you only need separate platform, not separate station

[gloomy bridge]

Okay so you have incoming items with trains, and want to store them:

First send a belt to the location you want them. Along the way, if you have a secondary product you need to make, put a splitter that allows you to take what you need from that belt to another location to produce the item.

You could have multiple splitters, one for each secondary product along each belt you have.

[bleak jungle]

Bro, it was designed so. For that are trains. The trains deliver things.

[wind spade]

trains deliver things between factories, not for personal use

[bleak jungle]

I deliver things to depot -> rest upload to dimensional depot -> rest things get a other train and drive to factory.

[wind spade]

yeah I wouldn't recommend feeding factories from central storage

build factories near nodes they need

[bleak jungle]

I want like this:
Factory A: Produce Frames
Factory B: (I NEED FRAMESS HELP and Plates!)

Factory A -> Depot (Train Station) -> Frames are stored here
Factory XYZ -> Depot (Train Station) -> Plates stored here also

A Oter Train C come from his way, put in depot the rest of container like steel pipes -> get the other things for factory XYZ => plates and frames.

[wind spade]

yeah that's unnecessary complicated setup that will indeed be hard to make in SF (and will require things I've said like one platform per item).

if you're going against the design, you're gonna have issues 🤷

[hushed silo]

well, it realy isnt apples amd oranges, more like what makes sense

the initial argument was "yes you can use iron only and not bother with steel at all"

but just bcs there is a possibility of it it doesnt translate to you have to use it in your approach

with current coal and iron availability one well placed foundry can make over ten of thousand of steel, place two and you have all of your giga projects covered without impacting anything else at all

however ironing it out greatly increases the resource draw, items you move and you'd need multiple places to cover for it

now the second method essentialy is "extra effort" that most people wont go extra lengths to go to because we as people minimize energy spend by default

• thats what Mr Greeny meant realy

now i know that i said iron is never a limiting factor because it is most available resource in game, however if you make everything out of it you will need to consider the 79k ceiling at some point and defintely the local availability with increased bulk of transportation and machines placed and most inportantly planning which is again more effort

i get it you may have felt criticized but we realy werent going for it

personaly i like to do some projects with extra steps but i typicaly make them with consideration of exploiting 1/4 of the map and tryna make it as efficient as possible and i play in multi so i know how people react to those, even very experienced people with thousands of hours and i know everyone wants to do things in this game their way so whenever i propose something it gotta make sense on my part and that it is easy enougj to understand

dealing with disagreement is a part of the process and its not in the funny part but you gotta deal with it and be ready for it

and speaking specificaly about iron pipes only realy makes no sense efficiency wise and its always been like that, it is a neat thing you can do but what are you realy saving that coal for?

if u tryna make something later from those pipes it gets even worse and in a room of people who are knowledgable about the game and need to agree on something its not gonna realy fly

easy and good solution is the way to go most of the time and solid steel happens to be it

in your own world or multiplayer with people who wanna do the same thing as you we arent stopping you from doing it but it is surely for a project that 99% of people wouldnt bother

i realy hope this doesnt sound like a personal critique, i tried to be very forthcoming with it

[white bloom]

(if you slice your responses in smaller segments it's easier to respond to individual snippets)

[hushed silo]

its the autistic info dump made on nicotine flow

[white bloom]

the initial argument was "yes you can use iron only and not bother with steel at all"
Maybe that was ambiguous. I wasn't advocating Iron Pipes because that skips steel, but because that's efficient (with regard to my arbitrary default objective). The "no need to use steel here" is just a catchy comment on it after the fact. I do use steel for steel beams obviously and don't avoid complexity.

but just bcs there is a possibility of it it doesnt translate to you have to use it in your approach
100%

[crimson moat]

My default approach is to make just enough constructors for 180 plates (underclock to match it) and merge their outputs and send them the correct way

and then just do that again with enough constructors for 52, underclocked to make it exactly, and send those 52 the other way

[white bloom]

with current coal and iron availability one well placed foundry can make over ten of thousand of steel, place two and you have all of your giga projects covered without impacting anything else at all

however ironing it out greatly increases the resource draw, items you move and you'd need multiple places to cover for it
That's one approach. I think what makes that lose out from my perspective is the high value of coal, which is due to their usage in mostly the Turbo Diamonds recipe (and in small amount in Nitro Rocket Fuel).
if you want it in numbers, shadow prices for:

• Iron Ore: 213.88
• Coal: 1248.92
• Petroleum Coke: 1142.95
• Compacted Coal: 2569.97
• Iron Ingot: 141.84
• 1 MJ: 0.867
  Which makes the (opportunity) cost of one Steel Ingot produced by either recipe:
• default: 1481.3
• Coke Steel: 1025.9
• Compacted Steel: 832.7
• Solid Steel: 941.0
  So Compacted Steel is way to go from the perspective of that goal, the cheapest recipe sets the price from my previous comment (#math-and-meta message) and it follows from that Iron Pipe is cheaper in that sense than the Molded Steel Pipe.

now i know that i said iron is never a limiting factor because it is most available resource in game, however if you make everything out of it you will need to consider the 79k ceiling at some point and defintely the local availability with increased bulk of transportation and machines placed and most inportantly planning which is again more effort
The limited availability is factored into the shadow price of the ore, since these are prices at the margin (defined by how many resources there are available). If there was twice that amount of iron ore available but everything else as limited as it is, the price on iron ore would be lower than it is right now (213.88), for example.

Transportation and building inconvenience absolutely is a practical factor to consider, even though it's hard to quantify and pay respect to in a calculation, you're absolutely right about that

i get it you may have felt criticized but we realy werent going for it

No offense taken at all. I just got confused over why greeny was so adamant about rejecting the premise. What's the problem with saying "we need some objective frame of reference to discuss this in, I propose this one for lack of better alternatives, you're encouraged to propose another one you think suits better, but only within such an arbitrarily defined objective frame of reference do we have the specificity to actually make definitive comparisons and derive conclusions. We are all aware that these conclusions hold validity only within that frame of reference and do not claim validity outside of it. Let's do it anyways because it's fun, and better than nothing."
I just love engaging with this kind of stuff.

personaly i like to do some projects with extra steps but i typicaly make them with consideration of exploiting 1/4 of the map and tryna make it as efficient as possible

If by that you mean exactly 1/4th of each of the map's resource limit, good news: that will result in the exact same recipe usage as planning off the full map limits, simply scaled down by a factor of 4. So the viability of recipes is transferable between these cases.

If you mean a regional quarter of the map with all the nodes in it, then that does alter the resource values indeed due to local scarcity/abundance varying from global averages.

[plucky tusk]

🥱

Not reading all that

[white bloom]

good thing it's not adressed to you then! 😉

[plucky tusk]

Thank god

Just came here for daily pipe appreciation posting

[white bloom]

i play in multi so i know how people react to those, even very experienced people with thousands of hours and i know everyone wants to do things in this game their way so whenever i propose something it gotta make sense on my part and that it is easy enougj to understand

dealing with disagreement is a part of the process and its not in the funny part but you gotta deal with it and be ready for it

Imagine a competitive multiplayer playthrough where each player gets a clearly designated share of the map and they compete on maximizing their own points per minute production. They may pairwise trade items whenever the two of them agree on a ratio. What an absolute madness that would be. Someone might have a dominant share of the map but then other players collaborate to beat him anyways, so he has to offer bribes etc etc

and speaking specificaly about iron pipes only realy makes no sense efficiency wise and its always been like that, it is a neat thing you can do but what are you realy saving that coal for?
🔷🔷🔷🔷🔷

@hushed silo ok, done.^^

[still schooner]

how can i split this evenly?? (the lines are belts)

[wind spade]

just use what you have on the belt

[still schooner]

??

[wind spade]

if you have 250 on belt, connect it to machine(s) that need 250

[still schooner]

each machine needs 140

[wind spade]

clock speed can change that

[still schooner]

whats clock speed

[stone root]

Overclocking

[wind spade]

over/underclocking, in MAM

[heavy ocean]

Im currently at a stand still with my factory. Im at the end of tier 6 and have reached point in the game where i really want to start scaling to bigger and better. Every thing ive made up to this point has been small and modular. Like micro factories. Which ive torn all down. Im building a steel factory first and foremost and i have a set up for 1800 steel ingots/ min. Im not using alt recipes for anything right now. What would a good beam to pipe ratio be? can anyone help?

[outer vale]

would be best to work out what you actually want to produce, and work out what you need from there

[hushed silo]

my man

[inner kettle]

For rubber and plastic, should I go 50/50 or maybe one of them is less required?

[wind spade]

make what you need now, since there's no way to tell how much you're gonna need in future

[hushed silo]

typicaly i go for 50/50

its just clean for recycle loop

and u can make crazy ammount of both

if u are just starting make what u need

cause plastic/rubber is one of those that benefit insanely from alt recipies and optimization

[hushed silo]

60k water used to be moved through those pipes to nuc plant

but now its an abandoned save

💀

[steady gate]

dats alotta water

[opaque quartz]

Clean work on the piping tho!

You love to see it

[wind spade]

I'd just build the plants at water level 😄

[bleak jungle]

why i cant scan with key "V"? i cant use it, in keybinds it is set

[real stratus]

1. Probably not the right channel for this, try #1038092680493801533
2. You might have a key conflict, check your settings better, restart the game that can fix some issues

Anyway, I've been finishing up on my Blue Crater Rocket fuel plant

I'm using up all the oil in the Crater, gonna make about 150GW

(I just found out I will run out of power shards at 2/5 of the fuel generators

I need about 1.8K shards to overclock everything and I just had around 800)

But yeah, I've benn wondering, do Gases cause sloshing like liquids do?

I'm still running the pipes to the generators as if they could carry only 450-500 units/m, that fixed all the issues I've ever had on my liquids, especially sloshing

But would it be necessary for gasses too?

[wind spade]

looping the pipe usually removes all problems caused by sloshing

[plucky tusk]

Yeah afaik gasses just don’t need headlift still behave the same as fluids

Running at 450-500 will def help

[bleak jungle]

How to build it with mk1? (manifolds)

MK1 deliver 60 per min.

On my screenshot i need iron ingot 135 per min... how to do that? xd

Which the best planner? i need to see where splitters etc. how much who.

[plucky tusk]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[vapid gorge]

multiple manifolds
and satisfactorytools is prob the best

[vapid kernel]

Is this the most powerful hypercannon yeeter that can fit in 6 foundations?

[vapid gorge]

you could build it diagonally?

[vapid kernel]

I'm trying to avoid alignment issues that comes with that. Maybe

[vapid gorge]

allignment issues? the foundations would still be the same

[vapid kernel]

It will place it 45 degrees on foundations. 1 of 2 ways

On open ground it has a lot of angle options

With ionized fuel and that cannon I can make it anywhere. If I can get another 1 to 2 more in then I won't need to keep hitting the jetpack button

[vapid gorge]

you can spin things before building them >.>

anyway gl

[vapid kernel]

I tried. Just 2 options when on foundations

[wanton hawk]

You could make it serpentine

[vapid kernel]

Ahh

I like that idea. Building commences

[vapid kernel]

😋 The whole length of the map and half of the height available. Tyvm. I was getting close to making it in to 2 blueprints to make it work that well. Hypertubes are still fairly untouched for me

[knotty siren]

Oh snap, how far does that yeet you?

To infinity and beyond?

[vapid kernel]

From 1 desert beach to the other

[knotty siren]

Noice

[wind spade]

Build more than one belt 🙂

[knotty siren]

All I can think of is if you can attach a splitter directly to the end of the smelter

Otherwise, your best bet is to unlock Mk 2 belts first

[vapid gorge]

that's more than 1 smelter

[wind spade]

You can't do that tho

[knotty siren]

Yeah probably not

Mk2 belts unlock would be the best bet

[wind spade]

Or just... multiple belts

[vapid gorge]

it's not a single smelter, it's not all coming out of one machine

[knotty siren]

Oh I see

[grizzled grove]

Sometimes I look at quartz purification

And smile

[cyan drift]

hey, thinking the best way to get a lot of power before making aluminum

someone any idea how to do it? i was thinking about this https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidFuel_C"%3A"1230"%2C"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"975"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"]}

[steady gate]

probably turbofuel

[cyan drift]

but i would need to make a little but of aluminum for blenders

[steady gate]

or at least, turbofuel is what i used

nope, no need for blenders

[cyan drift]

is there better way?

[cyan drift]

oh, which recipes did u use

[steady gate]

lemme get them all written out

and gotta double check

pretty sure im using heavy oil residue alt, that to diluted packaged fuel, unpack and combine with another alt for turbofuel

i'll have to check to make sure

but diluted packaged fuel is really good, pretty much turning water into fuel

[cyan drift]

okay, thanks a lot, i was watchin some vids, bcs last time i played this game was some time ago and a lot has changed, so i returned to 1.0

[steady gate]

turbofuel with compacted coal

all can be done with some refineries and packagers

and some assemblers for the compacted coal

[cyan drift]

could you maybe put it in calculator or somehow write it out? am not playing it for the first time but sometimes, am little bit confused with the alts lol

[steady gate]

lemme do that rq

[cyan drift]

alr, i would be gratefull

[steady gate]

i sadly didnt make a planning wall for that one

[cyan drift]

oh, nevermind, if it works... 😄

i was thinking using 1800 oil, 780 sulfur and coal, but possibly could use 1800 oil, 1700 sulfur and 1700 coal to make nearly 90k MW

like this https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidFuel_C"%3A"2235"%2C"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"2137"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"]}

but looks like you have better one

[outer vale]

1800 oil could get you up to 4000 turbofuel with no blenders

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=RLid8FYgjrAidF5JlDWZ

[cyan drift]

and i am thinking waiting for nuclear power is stupid as imo, its not that effective and dealing with all the waste and making plutonium... uh

[cyan drift]

lemme get that lol

[outer vale]

does cost a ton of coal and sulphur mind

[steady gate]

(all quantities are p/min for 1 cycle)

30 m3 crude oil -> Alternate: heavy oil residue 40M3 HOR + 20 polymer resin
30M3 HOR + 60 packaged water -> alternate: Diluted packaged fuel 60 packaged fuel
60 Packaged fuel -> unpackaged fuel 60M3 fuel + 60 empty canister
22.5 fuel + 15 compacted coal -> 18.75M3 turbofuel

[steady gate]

thats the chain i use, just on a bigger scale

[cyan drift]

yeah thats the problem

[steady gate]

yeah thats true

[cyan drift]

i thougt 1800 oil is ok, so i used as much sulfur and coal as i wanted and then rest let as fuel to be burnt

the question is, is okay to use this much of sulfur and coal? or i will need it later

[steady gate]

im using i think 1800 as well and turning it all into turbofuel

though, im now doing nuclear

[steady gate]

you'll only need sulfur if you're planning on doing nuclear i think

or mass production of explosives and/or other weapons

[outer vale]

you can always take that plan above and tweak the Inputs tab

[cyan drift]

rocket fuel? battery? or is there better recipe

[steady gate]

true

[cyan drift]

yeah, idc if this world will even have nuclear, this time

[outer vale]

might need to switch the Outputs to Maximise temporarily, but always set back to the actual production number afterwards so it can properly optimise inputs

[steady gate]

battery has a better recipie now i think, and imo rocket fuel isnt really worth it

[cyan drift]

hm, so probably later switching from turbofuel to rocket or ionized fuel is not worth right?

[steady gate]

in my opinion not really as its not a whole lot of bang for your buck, but others might disagree

[cyan drift]

yeah, thx

[outer vale]

Rocket fuel's strong

Ionised is less of an improvement

[cyan drift]

ill need to think about it, as its like 4th world and i literally never finished it, as in lategame, it was too time consuming, but now, i want to finish the whole game

[steady gate]

time consuming it is indeed

[cyan drift]

yeah

also now as i want everyhing nice and clean and in 90 degrees angles etc.

[hushed silo]

just some daily pipe posting

not much but its honest work

[rain lichen]

why the hell does the next pipe have 0 flow?

(as in the pipes to the left)

okay after waiting 5 minutes they magically have some flow, but not nearly enough

it doesn't pass 90/min even tho they're both supposed to exceed 320/min

i guess i'll wait a little longer

[vapid gorge]

long pipes take time to fill up.

[rain lichen]

i can tell. 💔

[rain lichen]

is the flow rate supposed to go from averaging 200+/min and then 10/min for no reason orrr? 😞

was at nearly 300/min a couple minutes ago

[vapid gorge]

depends how long yoru pipe is

are the consumers paused at least?

[rain lichen]

yes, they are now

one of the pipes is taking much longer than the other to fill up, despite their equal distance

i'll let it fill up for a couple for minutes

[thick plank]

pipes are just stupid sometimes

I managed to fix a problem with one of them by building a valve and then dismantling it directly afterwards. The stuff is just some eldritch, unknowable magic

[hushed silo]

mmm pipes posting

[opaque quartz]

I wouldn’t read too much into the flow numbers until the pipes are full. Full pipes are happy pipes

[grizzled grove]

Me watching my pipe flow go into the void

[plucky tusk]

Daily pipe appreciation posting

[vapid gorge]

you mean something like this ?

[plucky tusk]

Yeah

[vapid gorge]

note: I don't recommend bottom feeding

[plucky tusk]

Im not into that kinda stuff anyway

Makes your breath smell

[vapid gorge]

prude

[terse stone]

Is it still best to run a loop back in a fluid manifold? I'm using a mk2 pipe to feed 600m3pm to 5x Nitric Acid Blenders that need 120m3pm each and I'm not getting the full 600 flow rate. I've tried fully filling input and saturating output lines but no luck.

What's the best approach here?

[vapid gorge]

usually a proper loop fixes this yes

but if the rest of the system is wonky it won't

a loop isn't a cure all

[terse stone]

There's a buffer at a fluid train to bring in Nitrogen Gas, then a mk2 pipe to the line of 5x Blenders with manifold. Putting in a loop back doesn't seem to fix the issue. Seeing around 450 pretty consistently in the feed pipe

[vapid gorge]

ah.. gasses behave very poorly in buffers. Package it.

it's more compressed that way anyway

[terse stone]

that sounds awful to have to bring in logistics for aluminum fluid tanks. Is there really no other way?

[vapid gorge]

well you only do it the once

you take the empty cannisters back on another platform

but you can move like 4x as much gas on a platform when packaged as when not so it's very convenient

[terse stone]

I can give that a shot if all else fails

[vapid gorge]

it's why drones are very useful for packaged N, they can pick up empties as they drop off fulls

[terse stone]

Is that recommended for large setups? This is in a power supply chain using all of the uranium nodes. 30x Blenders and 3600m3pm Nitrogen Gas is needed

[vapid gorge]

any gas set up really

it's not that it's 'recomended' but its certainly simple if you can fuel the drones

if you already have the train infrastructure for it no reason to have the train though

it's just that n gas is often in hostile terrain which drones excel at

[terse stone]

Testing out putting a smaller 400m3 buffer local to the 5x manifold and the feed pipe is now getting to 600m3pm flow
Maybe there's something to this setup

[vapid gorge]

just don't use buffers with gas. they are bad with regular fluids, worse with gas

[terse stone]

But at least one buffer is needed for the train fluid platform

[vapid gorge]

for liquids yes

but you wn't get full flow with gasses

if you were moving 600 gas pm and only needed 400? it might work

[terse stone]

You're probably right but I want to see this fail first. I have 4 out of the 5 blenders running at 100% and will turn on the last one the manifold once the pipes/ buffers are full

Buffer drain rate went to 800m3pm, can that really go beyond 600?

[vapid gorge]

because it goes out both ends

which means back flow

[terse stone]

Turning on the last blender and there must be sloshing because now the fourth and fifth blenders are out of Nitrogen Gas. Putting in a loop back and retesting

[vapid gorge]

gas doesn't try to move to an empty space, it tries to equalise the same volume along the whole line. Which in some ways is worse than liquid slosh

[terse stone]

Do valves work better for controlling gas in a manifold like this?

[vapid gorge]

no.

they don't work well in liquid systems either

example diagram on how valves don't stop always stop back flow, and even if they do they only stop it at that very specific point. Which generally isn't useful

[hushed silo]

on spot bro im lovin it

[vapid gorge]

it's still very basic piping apart from the bottom feeding. 1 pipe from Point A to Point B , flat along the manifold

[hushed silo]

pipes wont be a problem when machines are directly attached and 2m apart

🐊

[terse stone]

Brought in packager logistics to these three lines that previously came in on a fluid train and are running much improved. For anyone else thinking about it, packing fluids for a train is not too painful. Using a point to point train half of the cars move in the packaged gas and the other half return the empty fluid tanks. Thanks for the help!

[vapid gorge]

no stress, but unpackaged fluids in trains are easy

[vapid gorge]

these buffers work well #design-and-architecture message

also this one #design-and-architecture message

[thick plank]

I think you can save on the number of railcars by building two additional stations, so that at both points you have an output stagion followed by a input station. If you have a bunch of trains on your setup that may relax it a bit

though honestly I think using twice the railcars is better

[small pollen]

50000 Gigawatts

[green panther]

So i heard about the recycled plastic method where you use rubber and stuff with alternate recipes. Never used it before. Just want to know if this thing on the picture is the correct way to do it. I wanna implement it in a factory making super computers.

Do i need to use diluted fuel btw?

[vapid gorge]

you need one of hte diluted fuels yes, added tothat

[green panther]

Does it matter which one you using?

[vapid gorge]

imo use hte Resin to create Residual Rubber to start the loop

[vapid gorge]

nope, though the blender one is probably simpler if you have access to it

but not by a huge degree

[green panther]

and thats the Diluted fuel not packaged

So use this in the start?

[vapid gorge]

no you use hte Heavy Oil Residue alt

it produces some resin, and all you need is some

[remote flame]

Here you go! #math-and-meta message

[vapid gorge]

and Diluted Packaged Fuel or Diluted Fuel are both fine

[green panther]

The resin goes into the res Rubber

[vapid gorge]

then add fuel to make recycled plastic, then use some or all of hte plastic to make recycled rubber with more fuel , and so forth

[green panther]

Holy shit, normally i would need 1200 oil for that, now only 275 xd

[vapid gorge]

yeah it's more than a 4x multiplier from base. But it's also a lot more work

[vapid gorge]

at this point, with all the recipes, basically every time you ever want to do anything with oil you go

oil -> HOR -> diluted fuel : then do whatever you need to do if you want to be oil efficient

[remote flame]

Oh and this is a post that has the exact layout 🙂 #math-and-meta message

Diluted packaged fuel or diluted fuel (blender) are equivalent, either way works!

[vapid gorge]

they have the sf tool layouts already >.>

[green panther]

Thanks 🙂

[remote flame]

Just remember the above post I linked, whatever oil you input, you can output 3x the units out;

200 oil in > 600 units out (could be 400 plastic w. 200 rubber, or 600 plastic, or 200 rubber w. 200 plastic w. 200 fuel, etc)

[bleak jungle]

why is this soo much i have 600 sam per min. 🙂

its soo hard to structure and build, or to plan

[vapid gorge]

what are you trying to do?

[bleak jungle]

Alclad Aluminium Sheet

so hard to produce

[vapid gorge]

are you trying to use SAM?

[bleak jungle]

yeah why not?

[vapid gorge]

ok just making sure. Generally just simpler to use the base ore.

[bleak jungle]

which? can u say?

[vapid gorge]

bauxite

[bleak jungle]

send me a planner link

[bleak jungle]

Then i need coal, bauxide, water and raw quarz + copper ore

thats much i need....

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=oMHTBkVPncQFgOuJoVgB

that's just for the ingots. These are the recipes I like to use

[bleak jungle]

i have all receips, can u make a new link? i take a week to search each drive xdd

[vapid gorge]

that is a new link?

[bleak jungle]

with alternate recipes

i mean which i need to use

[vapid gorge]

I mean you don't need to use particular ones. These are just ones I'm suggesting to use

and you can edit it yourself, you seem to know how to use it?

[still schooner]

how can i split this?

[wind spade]

build 6 assemblers and hook each belt to two

[still schooner]

but look at the rate

[wind spade]

clock speed solves that

[still schooner]

i wrote it above the belts

[vapid gorge]

clock the assemblers to use that many

in 3 groups

[still schooner]

whats that

[wind spade]

build a MAM and do MAM trees 😛

[vapid gorge]

have you not unlocked clocking in the MAM yet?

[wind spade]

it's pretty good

[still schooner]

which one

[vapid gorge]

research slugs

[wind spade]

all of them are useful tbh

MAM is arguably most important machine in the game

[remote flame]

There's a couple ways to do it, @still schooner

1. You can use clock speed on the machine (from 0-100% without powershards). So in your picture, you have 2x belts of 250, one of 200. So 700 total between 5 machines is 140/min normally.

You can make 6 assemblers instead of the 5 you were making, and clock them down;

So clocking 2x assembler to 71.5% approx. Is 200/min

Then the 250 belts, clock 2x assemblers to 89.3% for approx. 125/min each 🙂

2. You could use 5x assemblers at 100% (I assume you are limited by mk3 belts) like this. Sorry the image is crude I'm on my phone and just drew it with a finger haha

The above method doesn't use modified clock speeds at all, and will work perfectly fine with mk3 belts without too much complicated belt work considering haha (it will overflow feed the other machines like a manifold would).

And yes the 5 arrows pointing up are feeds to each assembler. Arrows going in to each other are mergers, arrows out are splitters 🙂

[hushed silo]

i was fucking around with this set up yesterday

tryna make plastic and rubber produciton equal

and when u set them to equal u get 880 product from 300 oil instead of 900

because teh initial resin you get you will have more rubber than plastic comperatively from the same ammount

[outer vale]

works on my machine

[hushed silo]

so i set both residual to make 40 of each

and then 12 refs to make 133.334

[outer vale]

sounds like the sort of issue you get with planners that don't handle loops properly

[hushed silo]

it starts spittin out both items at the same time instead of needing to wait for plastic to build up

and saves on math head ache

[bleak jungle]

How do you build in this area? because it is full of mountains and stones (with trains, how do you build with trains)

its sooo many feet

[outer vale]

spirals, ramps, or just split into two trains at the cliff

one train for the high bit, one for the low, with a lift between

[hushed silo]

oh no i did that choice manualy to see how it differs

[outer vale]

differs by not working, by the sounds of it 😛

[hushed silo]

where did you hear it tho

i doubt u are hallucinating

[outer vale]

here

[hushed silo]

lookin at 97.778% efficiency be like

"hmmm not working"

[vapid gorge]

the efficiency meters are not to be trusted. Stare at the row of lights for 30 seconds, see if any flash yellow

[outer vale]

looking at planner saying "hey you asked for 900, here's your plan, enjoy your 880" and thinking "you know what, that's fair"

[hard tendon]

30 ficsonium fuel rods /min 🙂

[outer vale]

probably better in #screenshots

[hard tendon]

right

lot of big numbers involved tho

[hard tendon]

Shame theres no more sam or bauxite in the world, ive used it all up or i would make about 240 rods

[rain lichen]

what's the deal with this? why is the second pipe barely recieving anything?

got pumps installed correctly

[wicked tinsel]

seem to work just fine?

probably left pipe goes upward a bit so it had to fill until it can pass fluid along

and right pipe is probably flat so it just transfers the minuscule production to some building and doesnt fill

[rain lichen]

i'm talking about the lower pipe, the 2 segments

one segment is nearly full, consistently, while the next segment (as well as the entire network after it) has been nearly empty for hours

[wicked tinsel]

i mean left and right as in the images (left being filled one)

[rain lichen]

ah

[wicked tinsel]

pipe fill is meaningless, check if source side is backed up on machines

if so, there is either a broken / unattached pump or some pipe connection is glitched and needs ot be rebuilt

[grizzled grove]

Plus you should your pipes fill, especially if they are long pipes

[rain lichen]

yeah no, my machines just aren't getting enough water, even though the extractors are literally full

[rain lichen]

already tried

[grizzled grove]

Flow rate has a tendency to go into the void when pipes aren’t full since it’s trying to both feed machines and fill the pipe

[wicked tinsel]

then your pumps are either broken or at wrong spots

broken as in bugged, try rebuilding them

[grizzled grove]

Build a water tower if pumps get wonky

That will ensure it will get there without issue

[rain lichen]

fuck it, i'll let this factory just sit for a while, i've already spent long enough on it lmao

it only makes parts for personal use so it doesn't matter if it's temporarily slightly inefficient

supposed to make an overkill amount of alclad sheets (300/min) so ig i'm still getting loads despite the hiccups

[north mauve]

Nearly empty or empty? Big difference.

Also if you're not 1000% certain your pumps are pumping enough, just slap on several more (temporarily) and see if that fixes the issue or has no effect.

What are the buildings taking besides water? I'd disconnect those (or if you don't like disconnecting, put a smart splitter and set it to NONE) and then see if the water fills up

Great way to prefill for liquids

[cloud marlin]

pure aluminum ingot or regular one? i've actually never done regular one, always opted out of quartz and limestone usage here but want to hear your thoughts

[wind spade]

both have same flow

[prisma hare]

Gosh dude

[prisma hare]

Check if you might need a pump on the 2nd one

[cloud marlin]

a question for you - is separating fresh and recycled water always the correct solution and we shouldn't do any mixing?

[outer vale]

it's always the more reliable option

it can be done, sometimes it'll even work, some people swear by it

[oblique hollow]

its always the easier option, not the correct one

If you can pull off mixing, good on you

Else, its easier to just not. Otherwise you might spend a long time on troubleshooting

and thats not fun

[cloud marlin]

My first bauxite plant used mixed water and it was horrible since then i've always separates them. My first save was in u3 though so i wondered if in 1.0 it was differen

[oblique hollow]

no lul

still the same risk as it always was

[dusky dust]

You definitely can get fluid recycling mixed in and working properly. In the past I generally never even used VIP junctions and such, and they seemed to be easy to get working reliably. But yeah, keeping them separate means a lot less debugging, generally, and a higher degree of confidence that your system will continue to work indefinitely

[vapid gorge]

did you let the system flood first? down clock all the machiens so you're over feeding?

[north mauve]

I never thought of doing that. I always just put them on standby or disconnected one input

1% clocking sounds way better than either

Though I really, really wish pasting into a building did not clear the stock

That's just stupid

[vapid gorge]

only generators accept input while on standby so properly flooding other systems can't work that way

I'd suggest 50% because if you go from 1% to 100% the cycle it's on will still run at 1% until it's complete which could take forever

[remote flame]

Mixing works If and only if you give the recycled water priority in the pipe circuit. It's actually really simple, for as so long as the water extractors are the furthest source (I.e, at the end of the manifold where the recycled water merges in to the pipe before them), then the water extractors turn on/off rather than the refineries as the pipe is filled. You can use special 'VIP' Junctions people have made as well, both could work

Or like you're doing and as stated too, not mixing is by far the safest option and far less likely to cause any issues. The start-up time does take longer much like how long manifolds do, but other than that completely fine 🙂

[wanton basin]

Use waste product in separate production line < recycling

[north mauve]

I would put things on standby to let the belts fill up, and you can always manually fill any solid objects straight into the input.

[vapid gorge]

but not fluids, and that's where flooding the system is important

[onyx wagon]

has anyone built a maxed 16400/min aluminum ingot factory with this receipt?

[vapid gorge]

prob. People are weird that way

you'd probably want to do cheap silica at least

[onyx wagon]

i dont like the prospect of it but yes cheap silica should be considered

considerably less assemblers than constructors this way. cheers

[vapid gorge]

just as a thing, it's very unlikely you'll ever need that much bauxite, sicne processing the whole map's resources is essentially impossible to do. But fine if you just have that as a project

[onyx wagon]

very true.
its part project, part aluminum can be utilized in a wide range and can eliminate steel from processes.
thought is if I get it all and process then I am future proofing.

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah, look, future proofing is a bit of a trap. Plan from the very end

and you can already remove steel if you want with Iron Pipe and Encased Pipe.

though steel recipes tend to be very efficient and quite compact

[heady vine]

what are some good combinations of reousrces and products for raw-processing factories?

each time I look at how much stuff I need to bring in for something like pressure conversion cube my brain activity declines

[robust raptor]

Generally, oil and bauxite are spread pretty unevenly throughout the map, so you'll more than likely be transporting those by train

All other resources are spread generally evenly throughout the map with varying rarities, so just find a good spot with the basic resources and any rare resources you need

You can also use drones to transport intermediates that are being made in low-medium volume like RCUs

[opaque quartz]

I’m right in this phase now of getting large scale logistics going. Finally have aluminum ingots moving by train, next I need to do quartz, plastic, and rubber and that should cover my ability to make a lot of phase 4 materials

[cloud marlin]

All is clear except the part where the fresh water should be put in case of mixing like i your example of putting it at end of manifold. I dont really get it from written desctiption. I usually make aluminium in duch schematic. In which place would you put it from 3 red points

[vapid gorge]

Like that. You don’t mix them

Blue is fresh, red is waste

[cloud marlin]

Lmao i wasnt asking about that

I didnt make myself clear but i am able to build separate water pipes with fresh and recycled water

[oblique hollow]

HMF is, generally, just steel + concrete if you really think about it. Iron + Coal + Limestone or Iron + Oil + Limestone if you feel fancy.

The other half is then making FMF and Radio control units.
Thats mostly aluminum and quartz stuff.

Split it up into subgroups and suddenly its less daunting

[modest zealot]

you could also use that water to make copper ingots 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

This is simpler and maybe you don’t have copper nearby

[modest zealot]

well yeah just have the water on full power at first then when the pipes and shit fill up flush the whole system and put the valve to input - byproduct

or do as you do ig lol

i always do water in minus byproduct water, yes it takes extra time to start up fully but i got no backup or issues

[heady vine]

Well I figured i can refine oil in place to not use freighters and because it usually is near water.
Wait, u say bring them elsewhere?

[robust raptor]

No, process the oil on site and bring the oil products elsewhere

Technically, oil is more compact than its products, but with how big refineries are and fluids being finicky to transport by train if using canisters, it's generally a good idea to make the oil products at the oil and transport the products

[heady vine]

Yeah, making batteries also seems like quite a headache. i didn't launch nuclear power yet

[robust raptor]

Just use fuel

Or rocket fuel, that's what I use for drone fuel now

[heady vine]

Oh, that's recent

[thick plank]

or you can just use conveyors? I dont understand why so many people have aversions against using them

[robust raptor]

You can for short-medium distances

But I'm not dragging a conveyor from the western rocky desert to the blue crater

[thick plank]

i did. That doesnt take more time then trains to set up

[robust raptor]

Good for you

[thick plank]

ok not technically from the rocky desert but from the oil shore

[robust raptor]

I personally prefer trains and drones, but if you like long-distance belts, that's fine too

And while a long belt could arguably take the same amount of time as a train line, it absolutely does not take the same amount of time as drones

Drones are extremely simple, just place down a building or two on each side, do a bit of configuration, done

[thick plank]

but then you need an entire setup to supply your drones. Oh and the phase where I usually do the big logistics I dont have the drones unlocked yet

[robust raptor]

Supplying drones is easy

Have a drone port at your fuel factory containing fuel, and at the locations where you want to use drones, have a drone port pulling fuel from it

[thick plank]

you need a battery setup for those, and a system of drones distributing the batteries to other drone ports etc etc

[robust raptor]

You can use fuel

And you're vastly overstating the difficulty of an additional drone port

It's one empty drone port containing the fuel, and one drone port requesting the fuel wherever you need drones

Very simple and effective

[thick plank]

ok for some reason the server doesnt like me quoting the wiki

but then your using mods. They only accept batteries

[robust raptor]

Are you quoting the fandom wiki?

[thick plank]

yup

[robust raptor]

The official satisfactory wiki states you can use a bunch of different types of fuel

Yeah don't use the fandom wiki, it sucks

Use the wiki.gg satisfactory wiki, it's the official one and updated for 1.0

[thick plank]

oh thats new, ok didnt catch the patchnote that all fuels work

that makes the whole thing so much more easy

[robust raptor]

Yeah, I power my drones with rocket fuel

[thick plank]

just build your typical dilluted fuel plant and then it jsut works

goddamn, i think ill have to start building drone setups now

[strong delta]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Drone#Fuel
here

[thick plank]

found it, thanks

[strong delta]

can even use fuel rods

[thick plank]

ok that sounded more aggressive then intended

the thanks was honest

[robust raptor]

I wanna use plutonium fuel rods in the long term

[strong delta]

1.5m fuel value

thats lasting a looong time

[thick plank]

so you saying you can just put the plutonium fuel rods into your drones? Do they produce waste then?`

[robust raptor]

And no nuclear waste

Nope

[strong delta]

yeah

[thick plank]

Ok I love 1.0 now

[strong delta]

exactly

[thick plank]

finally I can justify using drones

[robust raptor]

The main disadvantage is that the drone port becomes radioactive

But that should be fine if you have iodine filters automated

[thick plank]

when you properly set up your logistics you dont ever need to revisit it

so thats not really a problem?

[strong delta]

yeah as long as your drone port isnt too close to your factories is oke

[robust raptor]

Well, if you're placing your drone ports a decent distance from your factory, maybe

[thick plank]

when you properly plan your factories and finish building em, hook em up to some central storage, you also dont really need to visit your factories again tbh

[robust raptor]

Yeah, but you're constantly constructing factories unless you afk

I guess you can build the drone ports last

Either way, not an issue with automated iodine filters

[thick plank]

yeah, but you only need to start flying in the radioactivity once the setup is concluded

so every setup isnt radioactive while bilding

plus, radioactivity is kinda overrated. Same as gas

usually you can just walk right through and not worry. And when it gets close, theres something called a nut

but yeah. Ill have to look into using drones, now they dont require batteries. Im still more in favour of conveyors then trains for logistics, but considering im already producing massive ammounts of fuel in my worlds just hooking up one of these plants to a distribution network isnt that difficult

the only problem is that you then first need to automate radio control units, but that one isnt even that difficult to make

[smoky aurora]

is there a maximal distance?

never used em ,..

[opaque quartz]

Not really, no. Especially not with rocket fuel (stack size is 100 for RF)

A drone won’t take off if it doesn’t have enough fuel to make the trip

[steady gate]

just shove some plutonium fuel rods in the drones and call it a day

[opaque quartz]

Love plutonium rods as drone fuel. Highest top speed (alongside ionized fuel) and one rod will fuel 50-100 round trips. Ridiculous

[smoky aurora]

okay thats crazy

[steady gate]

and spicy

but it works, and if you use said drones to supply your nuclear plant it doesnt really matter if theres a little bit of radiation around the drone port

[steady gate]

just a little😌

[north mauve]

Your belt is one use. Trains are multi use. That's what makes trains so good (in real life too).

[inland quail]

Everyone keeps saying that I should use 1 locomotive for every 4 cars, but could I have one loco, 8 cars, and one in the end. Does it have to be 2 locos facing the same way?

[north mauve]

You can do that but it's not recommended, and yes they must face the same way

[wind spade]

it's just a recommended ratio but you can do whatever

[north mauve]

Or else the second one doesn't add any push and instead just weighs the whole thing down even more

The main reason to not do it is if you want an item from freight car #8, and nothing else, for a specific factory dropoff, you have to build a train station, seven empty platforms, and a freight station just to pull that one last item off. It sucks. I hate building it and most people do too. And it takes up a colossal amount of space.

What would be better to grab that 8th item is just make a new train station with one freight station, and a new train with one freight car. Rather than build a whole ass 8 car long train line.

But you CAN do whatever you want. It will all work*

*I actually don't know what happens if you are pulling too many cars with one locomotive. Does it just not move at all, or does it move extremely slowly? Does it get stuck going up inclines or just go really really slow?

The ratio 1:4 has to do with keeping up a reasonable top speed.

[robust raptor]

I've seen some people use 1:3 since splitters / mergers are a 1:3 ratio

[north mauve]

Can you be insane and do loco, car, loco, car, loco, car? And by can I mean does that mean the locos all provide proper push?

[cerulean stratus]

3 carts feels so little, but to be fair, I used trains with like 13 carts

it was flat terrain so it didn't matter

[north mauve]

I commonly have 1-2 cars, but plenty of mine are 3-5. I have 19 separate trains.

[robust raptor]

I like the classic 1-4 trains

[cerulean stratus]

btw, what kind of set up can take advantage of mixed trains?

[robust raptor]

Nice and large for good throughput, but not so large that train stations get too annoying to fit into the terrain

Train throughput is so high that even 1-2 trains have plenty of throughput though

[cerulean stratus]

Train stations can filter out mixed trains, which I feel can be really powerful

[robust raptor]

Mixed wagons?

I have a train carrying rubber and plastic, but in separate wagons

[north mauve]

The 5s are from bad planning / not knowing what's coming up next. I wanted to stick to 4 max.

[cerulean stratus]

yup

[north mauve]

By mixed do you mean one car has more than one item type?

[cerulean stratus]

actually with mixed wagons you have to sink everything or it will clog...

which is ok, it allows you for better control of your space

[north mauve]

That's why I don't do it. It demands you over produce or else it fails. Which I often cannot do because I built exactly enough for something

[robust raptor]

If you're using anything larger than a 1-1 train, I don't really see the benefit over having separate wagons

I guess you could transport more types of items than wagons, but at that point you're not getting very good throughput of any one item and it might be worth considering other solutions

[north mauve]

Right unless you deeply enjoy making programmable splitters to sort your garbage, it's significantly less work with less wasted items to separate them at the starting train station rather than sorting later. I don't understand.

[dusky dust]

Sushi vehicle/train/drone deliveries don't require over-production

You do have to buffer properly, and you'd definitely want an overflow sink just in case production ever backs up, so that the deliveries themselves never clog, but once the factory's up and running 100% you're unlikely to ever see anything actually getting sunk after a delivery cycle or two

[north mauve]

Hmm

[dusky dust]

The key is just making sure that the station output never gets clogged, so it's item-sorter-SS, then overflow-to-sink-SS, then your delivery buffer

[north mauve]

Is there any trick to buffering properly beyond have a buffer and put the smart splitter in the right place?

[dusky dust]

Yeah, my usual setup is: ```
(The SS-to-overflow actually goes into mergers instead of "chaining" the
SSes together like that, but it's difficult to convey that in 2D ascii)

[Station] ------ [SS] ---(any undef)---> [SS] ---(any undef)---> ...
| |
(item) (item)
| |
v v
[SS] ----(overflow)---> [SS] ---(overflow)---> [Sink]
| |
(any) (any)
| |
v v
[ISC] [ISC]
| |
v v
[Process...] [Process...]

[north mauve]

Sorry what's SS

[dusky dust]

Smart Splitter

[smoky aurora]

u did good 😄

[north mauve]

Couldn't you simplify it with programmable splitters?

Have both any undef and overflow on the same output

[dusky dust]

I know I had a reason why I separated out the item sorting from overflow-to-sink, though the reason isn't coming to mind at the moment. :)

You'd presumably be able to get the same functionality just with a single SS doing (item) and (overflow), and sink at the end of that line (ie: the usual sushi processing)

[north mauve]

That didn't work for me and I don't remember why

[dusky dust]

As I say, I know I had a reason at the time, though I wonder now what that was. I've been using this bulk-sushi-delivery method throughout this current save, though. :D

[edgy leaf]

I'm kinda sad that they're adding hypertube junctions as an actual thing, the quirky contraptions were always so fun. any ideas on how they'll work?

[opaque quartz]

The only thing we have to go off of right now is the brief shot of one in the background of the teaser video

[livid turret]

After using hypertube cannons I have never tried to set a network of hypertubes again

Maybe a junction could be used to be launched one way or the other

[edgy leaf]

the network is nice cause you can go afk and easily control where you go. also it's faster

[edgy leaf]

yea im asking for speculation

[opaque quartz]

Maybe it was discussed in the dev stream yesterday, idk haven’t watched yet

[heady vine]

Mainly because they oversimplify stuff? Also requires pretty boring building phase. With chances of crewing up somewhere in the middle. And change in what goes where might require change of pathways, unlike for drones and less so with vehicles. Aka, nay other means of transport either doesn't have path or let's you reuse it

[cerulean stratus]

Ok I have an idea. Using a mixed belt for each part that goes to storage

[north mauve]

Eh, I have two kinds of tubes. Really short runs that just replace stairs where I can't fit them, and cannons that launch me across the map. The junctions are kinda dumb in my opinion unless they're implemented in a way I haven't thought of

[fossil galleon]

I've been having some weird problems with mk2 pipes again, I thought I fixed the throughput issues when I looped the pipes, but they're still not transporting 600 properly. is there anything special I have to do when looping pipes? any help would be appreciated

[dusky dust]

It does help to follow a somewhat specific build pattern for 'em. Pasting in the full advice chunk, though:

1. Keep the system as simple and short as possible.
2. Loop your manifolds (so: the input goes into both sides of the machines you're feeding)
3. Feed fluid from above, so gravity does part of the work for you
   4a. Avoid valves entirely (they've been improved for 1.0, so this one might not be as important, but you still don't actually need valves)
   4b. Avoid fluid buffers entirely (except as buffers for train lines, where they are rather necessary)
4. Prefill your pipes! Full pipes are happy pipes. Wait until the system's thoroughly saturated before turning machines on.
5. Build junctions before the pipes. Or if you do snap junctions onto existing pipes, dismantle and rebuild the pipes afterwards.

See #1254873515744825464 message for an example of 2+3 specifically. (Not sure why that usually says #unknown until you click on it -- it's just a link to a #1038092680493801533 thread)

[fossil galleon]

that's just the thing, I've done them just like this. prefilled, fed from above, looped. could it be a problem with the length of the loop? I'm feeding 20 refineries with 600 fuel

can't really do anything about that though, maybe it's worth trying to split the pipes into mk1s?

[dusky dust]

Ah, yeah, it's unfortunately not a 100% foolproof method, though it does generally work

Maybe start a #1038092680493801533 thread with screenshots and stuff, though

[fossil galleon]

yeah I might do that

I will do that

haha

[crimson moat]

@fossil galleon

20 at 100% of pipe flow is too much, you're asking it to go through 10 junctions in a row with some pipes emptying and zero backflow which just isn't reasonable

it helps to split it up, helps to input in more places (symmetrical) and helps to use less than full pipe capacity (like 500/600). Using slightly less than you input can even be a good bandaid as well, but other methods are preferred

[hushed silo]

i think its bcs u cant combine overflow command with specific item, its this or that and no matching

[dusky dust]

Nah, Item+Overflow is the usual case for sushi sorting -- it works just fine. Whenever the item output fills up, it'll send the item further down the line (and any item not specified gets sent to overflow by default)

Honestly have no idea why I've been sorting like I pasted above for most of this save; wonder if I just wanted the sink on the "other" side or something and a dedicated merger line for those was easier, and it just made it into my standard blueprint or something

[hushed silo]

but then you dont have the full control over whats getting sunk and whats not

when i was doing storage in mp we did first splitting amd then each overflow into sink

[dusky dust]

If you want to do something other than sink overflow on a particular item, then yeah, you'd need to do it in two stages

But if you're sinking all overflow anyway, I'm just questioning Past Self's builds. :D

[hushed silo]

okay

but what if

u are delivering something in large quantity and ure not using it

and it clogs the belt to the point just after SS

from end to Ss

then everything from the sushi will go to sink

since clogged item will cause overflow

[dusky dust]

The belt wouldn't clog; this is the standard sushi sorting (well, the sushi sorting itself doesn't include an ISC or whatever; that's just to account for delivery buffers): ```
[Source] -----> [SS] ---(overflow)---> [SS] ---(overflow)---> [Sink]
| |
(item) (item)
| |
v v
[ISC] [ISC]
| |
v v
[Process...] [Process...]

You've got a single belt coming into that; if an item ISC (or whatever) backs up, further of that item just gets shoved down the overflow and ends up at the sink

They don't slow up any other items or get in the way

[fossil galleon]

But it's not 20 at 100%, since I looped the pipe. Half is flowing into the refineries in the beginning, and half is flowing in from the end. The junctions never experience the full 600/min. That's what I thought at least

[vapid gorge]

you would need some overhead shots of your system

can't tellyou what's happening w/o it

[fossil galleon]

I made a questions and help thread, attached some screenshots there

[vapid gorge]

yeah too pact to really see what's going on. Did you pre flood the system?

and what's the pipe going in between the two manifolds?

[frosty owl]

I see 2 reasons to use Programmable Splitters with "any undefined" + overflow rather than just only "overflow":

1. Controlling what items go in the "overflow buffer" inside the splitter, thus preventing any unwanted items from getting "trapped" inside splitters (eg: slugs "lost" inside a sorting systems)
2. Making sure that a belt actually gets as much as possible of one item from a high-speed mixed belt (eg: trying to split 60/min with a MK1 from a mixed MK5 can lead to holes on the MK1 if the items come at LITTLE MORE than 60/min; solutions can be adding a small MK2/3 belt segment that THEN gets choked by a MK1 or using "any undefined" + "overflow" to make sure that the splitter buffers ONLY the needed item, leading to fewer/no gaps on the MK1 output)
   Hope this textwall helps 😅

[fossil galleon]

Done that multiple times, what ends up happening is the pipe slowly emptying

[fossil galleon]

That's a pipe for four extra refineries at the end

[vapid gorge]

connected or it's own system?

[fossil galleon]

it's own, had it combined before but splitting it solved some problems

[vapid gorge]

so these are 3 distinct systems?

[fossil galleon]

yes exactly

[vapid gorge]

can you show some more overhead shots of the rest pls? like how the input is coming into the manifolds? nothing like that on the thread

[fossil galleon]

here's the whole thing, I just remade the manifolds

[vapid gorge]

that still doesn't show where and how the incoming pipe is going to hte manifold

[fossil galleon]

I sent that before I read your message haha

[vapid gorge]

well without going into your game and removing a bunch of foundations to look at everything I'd suggest you shorten the manifolds. Something about how you set it up is unstable.

you sometimes see too long a manifold, eg 25 refineries on one side, end up starving but haven't seen it at 20 before

1. overclock refs to 200% so you have 2 manifolds of 10

2. instead of having 2 manifolds length wise , do 2 manifolds that are 10 on each side, then another manifold after 10 on each side

2 reasonable options that are likely to work

[fossil galleon]

aha, sure I'll try that

[bleak jungle]

why its idling? it have all ressources

ok no way how to dismantle water? :/

[vapid gorge]

I'd guess because the solution isn't leaving fast enough

or you're wearing a hoverpack

[fossil galleon]

it's full of alumina solution

[steady gate]

the alumina solution part is full, it makes 12 and the internal storage is 50, so with 38,5+12 would be 50,5 wich is tomuch for the internal fluid buffer, processing the alumina solution faster will solve the idling issue

[bleak jungle]

Works fine

[vapid gorge]

then its probably the hover pack

[hushed silo]

one production cycle makes 12, the inside limit is 50

nothing to see here, just loops on each other

[vapid gorge]

remove one of the dark matter recipes to remove the double loop

[vapid gorge]

get diluted fuel for that one

[hushed silo]

i was tryna check how it calculates without diluted

and surprise not that much difference

depends on whats the limiting factor, sulfur or oil

[vapid gorge]

well with diluted fuel you'll always get 3x as much fuel for the oil

you don't need to convert it to TF

[hushed silo]

yea but then you have dark matter as byproduct

[vapid gorge]

and theres water everywher

[vapid gorge]

use the by product in the initial production

like with waste water and aluminum

the red line is dark matter residue, the top line is the 'waste' feeding back into the system

[hushed silo]

even then it doesnt check out mathematicaly

you need dm crystalization to handle byproduct

and even then u cant start up the system without putting initial sam into it

[vapid gorge]

it's really hard to tell whats going on in your system from that image, at worst, picking weird recipe choices, you might have to sink extra dark crystals, but iirc you can manage that fine

[hushed silo]

just 5 alien matrix /m

[vapid gorge]

that doesn't help, I can't see any of the numbers properly. Lines are going everywhere and are overlapping

spagett

[hushed silo]

im still tweaking it

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=UVc7kNVSrEZfrX4OzdbA

have fun

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=KcW2YAwJsLjmb10TlC4R

split it into at least 2 independent groups of dark matter crystal production

although what I would do is create more Fresh Dark Matter Residue from sam and sink the byproduct from the APM so as to not have interdendent systems

or at the very least only feed the 120 waste into 1 of the independent systems

[hushed silo]

ill need to think about that

[vapid gorge]

but yeah, try your best to split this up into multiple independent systems.
If you go with 2 groups you'll want 2 groups of Fresh DMR to feed a bit into each system

so for preference here for hte Super Osci DMCs, feed the 375 waste + X fresh DMR from sam ore, whatever that happens to be

the thing about SF tools is that its often not a good actual layout, unless it's a very simple and short system

once you get bigger and more complex systems like this they are very much more flow charts to indicate the process but not at all how it should be put down physically. especially with loops.

[hushed silo]

that is true

the thing is dont know how many APM ill need

and i plan on building ionized fuel thing on top of it too

[vapid gorge]

I mean nothing can really help you there other than deciding how much of an item you want and then planning it backwards

[hushed silo]

yup

[vapid gorge]

but what I've described works for essentially any volume you want to make

[hushed silo]

once ill figure it out ill get to it

the only thing that concerns me with this is SAM usage

[vapid gorge]

you might just need more than 2 independent groups

sloop it?

[hushed silo]

hmmmm

this is sloopable indeed

[vapid gorge]

it's basically just the Alumina water by product system but with gas

and following the Keep It Simple Stupid of pipe mechanics

[hushed silo]

ah yes

the KISS of pipes

[vapid gorge]

with pipes, whenever possible, don't interlink systems

Honestly I really don't like teh 120 dmr from the next step coming in to feed the crystals. Making steps interdependent like that can be hazardous

I'd just make 120 more fresh residue and sink the waste 120

[hushed silo]

yea you always need crystalization for that

[vapid gorge]

And look - itps probably workable. I just look at it and see a possible massive headache. And I try to avoid pipe headaches as much as I can

[hushed silo]

i get it

i was a victim of tools multiple byproducts loop once

the rocket fuel made from blend and normal at the same time

[vapid gorge]

oh it's jsut I've seen a handful of people try something like this. Never ended well.
but I haven't seen many people do it so it's a low data set to base anything off

like maybe they were dumb

[hushed silo]

like im not gonna repeat that 💀

[hushed silo]

mine was working

but it wasnt complete

[vapid gorge]

how was it working then? ^_-

[hushed silo]

it was allright

but im not gonna repeat it

just too much stuff and different ratios

but as ive said i only builded a handful of that

like 10% of what i planned

it was a small system after all

with every excess going to sink

by no means it was finished based on itself loop

we made one like that for uranium

it was 60 gens running fully sharded from 3k ore

and every two hours it would break

like belt wrong here, belt wrong there, waste starts to pile up, waste is send into wrong place, sulfuric accid starts to build up or there is not enough cocnrete for plutonium

[vapid gorge]

alrighty sleeeep time for me! gnight!

[crimson moat]

yeah, there are still consumers 10 junctions away from the input and that's difficult

flow in pipes is also directly proportional to how full the pipe is, so if it's 20% full it will only flow at maximum 20% of 600

with 20 machines and 1 pipe you just bump into a lot of independant issues affecting you slightly but on a 600/600 pipe there is no room for inefficiency or backflow or it will idle your generators

[dusky dust]

Oh for sure, I'm mostly just wondering why I have been doing it, on these saves, because those kind of situations don't apply where I've done it. :D

[cloud marlin]

I wish trains wouldn't brake so long before coming to a path signal on a junction. like they should be braikng when in the block just before path signal is signing start of a junction - wish i could optimize this. So far i've moved block signals which are BEFORE junctions far back but this can fail if i have many trains on the route

[amber umbra]

The only fail state would be trains deadlocking or the signaling not allowing pathing.

But yea, the braking behavior before path signals is kinda meh. I do prefer how other games handle it.

[primal shadow]

What are the odds of getting a certain recipe

I have scanned like 15 hard drives to get diluted fuel

[versed violet]

2 divided by total recipes left to discover

total to discover depends what tier and mam research you unlocked and how many recipes you already claimed and how many pending hard drives you have in list

[primal shadow]

Ok

[versed violet]

economical way to find your wanted recipes is to scan as many hard drives you have to "lock" the choices - every hdd locks 2 recipes. Then either reroll or get more hdd until you find recipe you need.

[primal shadow]

I have no idea how many I have left

[primal shadow]

Ya that’s what I’ve been doing I have like 15 in backlog

Guess I’m just unlucky

[versed violet]

15 in backlog means 30 recipes blocked. check this wiki page on what recipes are possible with your unlock to get an idea how many is left.
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Hard_Drive

[primal shadow]

Ok thank you

[opaque quartz]

There are more hdds than recipes to unlock (with a few drives left over) so just keep scanning and you’ll get them all eventually

[hushed silo]

u can always buy hdds with coupons too

[oblique hollow]

Alright guys, time to apologize to Valves.
Turns out they are misunderstood and nobody does enough testing to prove it

[north mauve]

Oh? So what's the new valve meta

[oblique hollow]

They can help with mk 2 manifolds as it turns out

[wind spade]

👀

[oblique hollow]

In all our amazing wisdom, we forgot that valves are constant consumers if limited

as opposed to fluctuating consumers like machines

[wind spade]

but you have to fit into the exact 600/255 then

[oblique hollow]

thats the caveat

you know what value does work exactly?
40

[wind spade]

so now we just need CSS to rebalance all fluid recipes to take fluids at rates that are multiplies of 600/255 per minute

[oblique hollow]

honestly all of this wouldnt be as much of a problem if pipes werent at 600/min as a limit
modded pipes below that limit work great actually

[wind spade]

and yeah while this looks like it could work, I feel that generic rule of "no valves" is still valid

[oblique hollow]

also, to this day, junctions will confuse me

if you have 2 pipes at close enough equal volume fractions, then theres no fluctuation

if you are 0.3 m³ off tho, the pipe with less content starts oscillating

and also somehow 2 less full pipes into a junction make for a fuller output pipe

and theres no oscillation there

Junctions truly are too smart for us.
Maybe the Mk 2 issue is meant as a flex of their superior math ability, showing us the true ultimate flow that we cannot comprehend

[wind spade]

I still feel there's a chance that devs did this on purpose because people wanted pipes so bad

[oblique hollow]

What the above means in short:
If you got pipes with close enough flow rates, then there will be no oscillations

[wind spade]

so they made a system that while it's technically correct and works like it should, it's pain for most people

[oblique hollow]

and guess what piece of equipment can sort of turn oscillating flow into less oscillating flow

[wind spade]

and they are just laughing in their office cinema and are like "well you wanted the pipes, you got what you wanted"

[oblique hollow]

Using valves isnt as bad if you remember to set them to like 10% bigger limit than what the pipe should be moving
then they can smooth out fluctuations

But that is all stupid nonsense because "fluctuation compensation" is a stupid skill that i dont wanna learn for funny factory game

[wind spade]

loop superiority anyway I guess

[oblique hollow]

Thats also an idiosyncracy of dealing with the system

[oblique hollow]

hmm... There might be some more nuance to this

because its hard to actually oversupply with valves when set exactly

[bleak jungle]

Have one here a idea how to build this better? (design)

[oblique hollow]

no i think this is peak manifold

[oblique hollow]

Ok hear me out:
Valves are machines in code as far as i know.
You know how using somersloops in machines leads to fractional outputs?
The machines handle that by outputting items in waves of n+1 and n-1 in some pattern

What if valves secretly do the same for fluid output.
And they dont really show it

a valve should not be able to supply 45/min as a value, but somehow it can

[thorn bane]

wait what do you mean with
"The machines handle that by outputting items in waves of n+1 and n-1 in some pattern"
isnt it always the same amount of items?

[oblique hollow]

Nope, not with things like (1 out of 4 sloops) with blenders or manufacturers

there, the output is actually displayed as a fraction

and it deals with this by rounding up and down

if it tells you "3.75 Motors" (not 3.75/min but ACTUAL 3 and 3/4ths of a motor)
then it will output in a pattern of
4
3
3
3
4
3
3
3
...

[dusky dust]

(see also: drone fuel usage)

[oblique hollow]

Im starting to believe they did change valves and now both valves and pipes just dont display flow accurately enough

pipes already couldnt display decimals

and valves might only have a display limit of 255

the rest might just be an error due to floating point arithmetic behind the scenes

mk 1 sidelines into machines and valves is still preferred for small flow rates due to accuracy and volume

[versed violet]

Are there any single-slot objects that you can automate?
[single slot as takes one slot and does no stack]