math-and-meta

[steady gate]

fair fair, thats probably what i'll do anyways lol

[kindred mirage]

is it possible to make a 14-way splitter?
My current compacted coal powerplant uses a manifold and the further-down generators barely get any coal

[vapid gorge]

as long as you have the throughput and enough coal it'll fill. If you don't want to wait hand fill some stacks

[kindred mirage]

Actually now that i look at it i might have a sulfur supply problem

The assemblers are full of coal but barely get any sulfur

[vapid gorge]

ah, compacted coal

[kindred mirage]

Seems like i forgot about the different purities when setting this up (coal is pure and sulfur is normal) because the sulfur is mined at 50/min and the coal is mined at 100/min

guessing past me copied the clock speed without noticing the different extraction rates

either that or the sulfur miner was at some point a mk2

Okay well that seems to have improved the situation quite a bit but the issues are still not gone
I believe that's because i did some rounding when building this as after counting, the gens consume ~100.8/min (rounded up) and i'm producing exactly 100

so i guess i need 0.8 compacted coal/min now ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Actually that didn't really help. Might as well produce like 120/min...

[vapid gorge]

follow the problem backwards. are you still not getting enough sulfur? check the sulfur miner clocking

[kindred mirage]

That i checked. Increasing it didn't seem to improve much, the farther generators were still barely getting any fuel

[vapid gorge]

ok are any of the compacted coal producers starving?

[kindred mirage]

Nope, enough coal and sulfur

[vapid gorge]

ok are they clogged?

with output

like the compacted coal on the belts might be backing up

[kindred mirage]

No clogs

Seems like the issue is in the coal distribution

[vapid gorge]

ok if there are zero clogs or belt stutters anywhere, and none of the compacted coal makers are starving, you have mathed wrong

or not waited for it to stabalise

[kindred mirage]

actually my ""manifold"" setup might be the issue

it's not like the normal conveyor manifold

[vapid gorge]

doesn't matter. You can make absolutely fucked up belt manifolds and as long as you have

1. enough parts pm
2. enough throughput
3. items not cloggings/backing up for weird reasons

it should work

you have to really try to break manifolds

[kindred mirage]

So i was thinking, if i split the assembled compacted coal into two conveyors and then used two manifolds, could that solve the issue?

[wind spade]

This should work normally

[vapid gorge]

again, either you've mathed wrong, or you just haven't waited long enough

make some compacted coal, fill stacks by hand into the generators, then see if they starve

[kindred mirage]

The coal seems to be getting to the farther generators now but the capacity is still fluctuating, now i'm starting to think i've also got a water issue

either that or i'm out of ideas

Wait...

[vapid gorge]

well it doesn't sound like yo uwant to try the basic trouble shooting step I suggested so I can't really give you any further help. gl

[kindred mirage]

The coal seems to be getting to the generators just fine now

But i don't think this powerplant is the issue anymore, i just remembered about another thing i had

[vapid gorge]

if only someone had mentioned that it takes time for manifolds to stabalise

[kindred mirage]

Basically where i produce circuit boards, i am feeding petroleum coke into a generator

Maybe that part is suffering

[vapid gorge]

??

[kindred mirage]

They're all on the same power grid

[vapid gorge]

as in you built some coal generators fed by coke but didn't math it out so they aren't stable?

[kindred mirage]

Probably

[vapid gorge]

well that hsould have nothing to do with yoru compacted coal being unstable

[kindred mirage]

As i said the compacted coal seems to be stable now

[vapid gorge]

so time fixed it. good. But yeah if you didn't make the coke generators stable you'll have ups and downs

[kindred mirage]

Wait no, it's not that powerplant. The coke generators seem to have been inactive for a while now since the circuit board container is full
It's probably one of my other two coal powerplants

Either the one i constructed at the start of phase 2 or the one near steel

[vapid gorge]

one of the great reasons to centralise your power

generally 3-4 coal nodes next to a water source can do you for most of the game

[kindred mirage]

Strangely enough both of those seem fine...
WAIT

It's the fuel generators at my computer factory

[cerulean stratus]

So, I was playing with random recipes and I found some situations that I think independency has a hard time adapting to

One example is when my factory needs polymer resin, and polymer resin can be made in very large quantities, but used in very small quantities, like my refinery needs to go less than 10% for the next machine, and I wish I could just use 1 or 2 refineries for providing all the resin

[cerulean stratus]

Another thing is cable, cable has a long chain for me, and I can produce it a lot to avoid duplication

[tropic finch]

One track could be accidentaly destroyed or you've got train signals doing shenanigans

[tropic finch]

You can just put down some batteries, they'll buffer the downs

[north mauve]

I ship plastic, rubber, and aluminum all over the map. Extremely strict independency is not necessarily recommended.

[royal lintel]

How is this possible? I've got an OC MK3 miner (600)/min) attached to this, with two trains that deliver almost across the map & the supposed outgoing & incoming is way above the miner?

[split sierra]

i have a question about pipes, i need to split 3 mk2 carrying 400 each into 4 mk1 ones, would this work? do i need to position the valves differently?

[wind spade]

Don't do this, just use each pipe separately

Valves are evil and you shouldn't be balancing pipes

[split sierra]

valves are just so fluid doesnt flow backwards, the mk1 theoretically holds exactly as much as i need into them

i'm assuming whenever i try to jump start this i should wait until the machines are flooded

hoping the furthest merging node receives 100+100+100

[steady gate]

are you inputting one or two belts in the station and has the miner been running before you started up the train?

[split sierra]

i replaced the valves with pumps and built a siphon on each lane to assure throughput

now the big question

how do i place 128 (32*4lanes) generators and make it look decent

[steady gate]

8 lanes of 16 would probably look the best

[royal lintel]

One belt into a storage container, two belts from the storage container into the cargo platform. The train has been running back and forth for a couple hours now & still has the wierd numbers

[steady gate]

hmm weird, that is not supposed to happen, maybe empty the container? or are you by chance using a mod that makes belts continue loading while a train is at the station

[royal lintel]

I'll add as well it's a mk5 into the container & two mk6s into the platform & no mods

[hushed trellis]

ughh why arent u a multiple of 5,,,

[steady gate]

pain

[hushed trellis]

howm i suppost to balance all this??

[steady gate]

overflow manifold

[hushed trellis]

:c

[wheat dust]

https://tenor.com/view/invincible-that's-the-neat-part-you-don't-gif-14180388429135427516

just make more than you need at each phase

[steady gate]

just slap a smart splitter at the end of the smelter, set the lower need belts to overflow and tadah it works

[hushed trellis]

i'll find some insane way eventually

[steady gate]

have fun splitting and merging untill you fall over

[hushed trellis]

i oculd but im too lazy to go for caterium earlygame

[steady gate]

ohhh you're early game

[hushed trellis]

i never made it past coal power cuz i dont like when my factories overflow =3=

[steady gate]

i mean, smart splitters arent a whole lotta work tbh

[wheat dust]

what happens when the factory overflows?

[royal lintel]

You could use the smelters to split the ingots if you have over/underclocking unlocked?

[hushed trellis]

i dunno i always restarted my save every time that happens

[hushed trellis]

i could but the numbers are really ugly my perfectionist itch makes it hard to do anything

[gray trail]

wdym, what do you think happens when factory overflows?

[hushed trellis]

everything gets clogged probably

thats a whole waste o resources!

[gray trail]

You know resources are infinite right

[steady gate]

✨ sink

[royal lintel]

I get you, my and my friend spent ages load balancing a HMF factory, it was a mess but was pretty satisfying

[hushed trellis]

i could say "ficsit doesn't waste" but i really dont have a defense for not wanting to waste infinite resources

[hushed trellis]

i managed to balance an earlygame iron factory the other day

it's a mess on paper but much easier to deal with when u have a third axis

[hushed trellis]

hmmm maybe

[wheat dust]

shhhh, they're practicing to save the world

though if i'm honest, in a real world setting, mineral veins are so large that they would be considered infinite if only a few people used it.

This is what it looks like when you don't worry about production satistics and only care about pumping out items as fast as possible.

circuit board logic makes everything stay effiecent

[versed violet]

Yes, use manhattan routing.

[wheat dust]

yes. you are correct. I did not plan out the track lines whatsoever

I currently am making backroads for the few trains that can use them. hopeful to unclog the center of manhatten

[cerulean stratus]

Alright, so I need 150 smart plating per minute to make 30 reanimated Sam

And I need 70 reanimated Sam per minute to make 10 fluctuators a minute

And I need 1000 fluctuators to unlock ballistic warp drives

Normally I'd just buy it
But you can't buy fluctuators

Even slooping this will take me an hour of waiting

But I'm going to drain all 4 of my nearby limestone ores

[wheat dust]

I'm waiting on the pasta

[cerulean stratus]

Pasta in my case was easy.
It just took a bit or time

And to expand my power

[wheat dust]

I got 2 pasta makers with 4 sloops in them and 3 overclockers

it's still taking awhile. smh

[cerulean stratus]

Shame that I can't buy the fluctuators with coupons

[wheat dust]

fluctuators was easy

[cerulean stratus]

Yes but you're not playing with random recipes

That want 300 smart plating per minute

[obtuse depot]

If i have a train system set up like this what do I put at each of the black arrow intertsections cause I cant figure out anything rn

[wheat dust]

madness. i only play for the story and to keep my mind active.

[wheat dust]

path signals

block signals are only good for dead ends. everything else should be path signals

try to make your path signals as spread as your biggest train car as well.

same with your intersections

[obtuse depot]

so i put path signals at the intersections?

[wheat dust]

yes, on the right side if your trains are american

left if they're british

anywhere if they are indian

[obtuse depot]

ok let me try

I got a singal loops intoself error

[wheat dust]

idk what that means

give it a moment to update

[obtuse depot]

do I ned two path singal for each direction at the intersection

[wheat dust]

if the red sections are bi-directional, you'll need a block signal going in and a path signal going out

how to handle dead ends with bi-directional trains >

[cerulean stratus]

Cool thing though
I just unlocked a recipe chain that allows me to make iron ingots from just a bit of water

[wheat dust]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-meme-patrick-patrick-star-gif-25715251

[cerulean stratus]

I also unlocked a recipe that makes me 9 wire from 6 wire, and one that takes the wire and makes a lot of biomass with it

I'm on phase 5 with 20GW with just biomass burners

Because I can literally make power out of nowhere

[steady gate]

pure iron?

[wheat dust]

yep, legit just unlocked it. but i don't need it

[steady gate]

pure 100%

super state is kinda useless imo

[wheat dust]

eh, i don't wanna build anymore

sadly, by being super effiecient, ive created a repetive loop, and thus, am bored

[cerulean stratus]

Actually it's leached.
But it's copper ingot and sulfuric acid is copper ingot and water
But copper ingot is just copper ingot and water

[wheat dust]

just waiting on my pasta and spicy warp drives

[steady gate]

i see i see, noice

[cerulean stratus]

Now I look at my factory and I just see inefficiency

[steady gate]

more improvements

more power, more products more everything

[wheat dust]

The end game stuff takes so much... Im just running around making improvements, but the results are such small increases...

copper powder is riduclous

a whole train car of copper ingots makes roughly 2 stacks of copper powder. and that makes about 5 pasta...

well, 10 pasta with 4 sloops in the pasta maker

smh

nice things about having trains is if i need more at a station, i can just add another pickup/drop off to that station to the list

lets goooo

[knotty siren]

Holy train stations Batman!

[wheat dust]

don't worry, i'm not adding any more

perfect. math and meta.

[pseudo moth]

is this file still used?

[wheat dust]

I wish I would of put my copper powder station closer to my ingot creation station

so many ingots just not getting used because the train is to slow. hopefully the multi powder stop makes it more effiecient.

time to bring the copper to the powda

my new meta

copper ingot belt to powda un-needed. the multi powda stop fixed the issue.

still keeping the belt. smh. time to afk.

so pretty

[dense python]

have fun figuring out power outages

[wheat dust]

im alright

[scenic lintel]

Do the pipeline juctions have a flow limit?

Mk1/Mk2

[dire bridge]

In short, no.

I shouldnt be that bad at Math and English.

Lets say I have 1200 Rocket fuel per minute,
these are around 288 Fuel generators right? But how much Electricity do I Gain from that?

[outer vale]

1 fuel generator is 250 MW

[dire bridge]

but how do energy, burn duration and burn rate play into that.

[outer vale]

energy controls burn time

since it's always 250 MW

if something has twice as much energy, it burns twice as long

[dire bridge]

So its still 288 fuel generators but i only get a "whopping" 72.000 mw ?

[outer vale]

yes

you can always overclock the gens if you want to build less, but it doesn't get you more power from the same amount of rocket fuel, since the energy per unit of rocket fuel is fixed

[dire bridge]

Is my math right?
1200 m³ Rocket fuel per minute means
1200 / 4.16667 = ~ 288 Fuel generators.
thats how its meant to be calculated right?

[outer vale]

exactly 288 generators

that 4.1666... is exactly 25/4

that table just rounds to 4.16667 for display purposes I guess

[dire bridge]

ok thanks. i foolish thought i could get 1mil mw throught that. i misread and interpreted the hell out of that wiki page

[outer vale]

lol whoops

[dire bridge]

but 72000 to 1200 is 60 times the value, so still worth i guess

[outer vale]

yeah the 250 MW/gen is fixed, and that's what the burn rate and burn time are calculated from

the energy value's more of an internal thing than something you need to worry about

[dire bridge]

i need to worry about that?

[outer vale]

...no?

more of an internal thing than something you need to worry about

[dire bridge]

than not that, sry.

k thanks for the explanations man.

[inner lion]

how to make drones efficient. they keep making trips when there is only <10 or 0 items in the cargo. wasting a lot of fuel.

[vapid gorge]

that's drone life. Give them more to move, or send them further off

the only thing that might help is make sure the delivery point is absolutely stuffed with a large buffer, if a drone can't fully deliver it's load it'll wait

[inner lion]

yea I knew about that trick and used that before, but it's not feasible now

[vapid gorge]

can't you just pause whatever is consuming the parts for a while?

or manually cram a bunch of items in?

[inner lion]

but I don't have enough of the item, and am doing a speed run.

I did pause for awhile, going to unpasue now

[vapid gorge]

oh well if you're doing a speed run doesn't really matter

[inner lion]

I guess, was just worried I'd run out of fuel

[vapid gorge]

a drone doesn't consume that much 🙂

[cerulean stratus]

For some reason, my biomass burner isn't doing any work?

It crashes immediately

and it's off grid

[vapid gorge]

hoverpack

[unborn dome]

Actually, maybe I should ask - is it realistic to ship 480 fluid/min in a tank car? Or would I need two?

[vapid gorge]

depends on return trip time. There's formulas in the wiki for it but it's not an unreasonable amount no

like it's plausible depending on time taken

you might also need to use the bigger buffer here if the distance is longer, rather than the smaller one #design-and-architecture message

[unborn dome]

It occurred to me that the place my acid factory is (the waterfall crater west of grassy fields) is no where close to where I was considering my nuclear power (the swamp)...

Mind you, I'm not going to need THAT much for nuclear, some of it's going to the battery factory too, so maybe it'll still be ok...

I might just throw a second train on the same route

[vapid gorge]

why not just drone it in ?

and acid ? for batteries 😛 use Classic Batteries like a civilised person

[unborn dome]

Default battery recipe seemed like fun haha

[vapid gorge]

Never used it, never will. Not just because it uses more bauxite.

[unborn dome]

Perfect fit for the red forest nodes imo

Need a single bauxite and single coal node, and ship in the acid

[vapid gorge]

blergh. turn it all into scrap first. much simpler than dealing with that

OR, bauxite and oil. For electrode scrap and plastic

[cerulean stratus]

so why does my sink just die? it's the only thing connected

[unborn dome]

Why's your rebar gun look so weird?

[vapid gorge]

hoverpack

[cerulean stratus]

ok that explains it

[cerulean stratus]

it's actually a grappling hook

[granite totem]

Hey guys, is there a good way from stopping an hypertube exit please ? I am looking for something smaller than a full wall..... (there will be a roof)

(I have the same entrance in the other side i just want to avoid being sent to an other hypertube when exiting, and i d like to avoid walling both the sectors)

[vapid gorge]

any small object. a 1mx1m sign would do it I think

[cerulean stratus]

I wonder, is there a bp pack with all buildings?

so that I can stack them

[dense python]

how do I measure the amount of power an overclocked/underclocked machine will use? it doesnt multiply like the production rate does

oh well Ill just build double the machines at underclock 50 and see how much power I save

[vapid gorge]

a system maximally overclocked uses 33% more power. Just have a nice buffer to work with or check the wiki

[cerulean stratus]

Each machine tells you how much power it consumes

[dense python]

just underlocked a smelter to 50%, saved 2.4 mw

[delicate night]

what the beast way to make turbo fuel

[vapid gorge]

define 'best'
the great thing about the game is there's no one optimal path for a production line

[delicate night]

most power

[vapid gorge]

from?

[delicate night]

turbo fuel

[vapid gorge]

...

[gray trail]

depends if you value sulfur, coal or oil more

[vapid gorge]

so base TF exchanges more sulfur and coal for oil

it effectively makes more 'oil' by consuming coal and sulfur

[delicate night]

this what i got

[vapid gorge]

Turbo Blend doesn't use coal, so uses more oil per power. But that's because it's less extended

it's often easier to do blend since you only have to bring sulfur in

[vapid gorge]

yeah modeler is shit and pointless to show

[delicate night]

? that what all that i can use

[vapid gorge]

the main choice between Blended recipe and Base recipe is 'do you want to ship in coal?'.

if you do? then use the base
if you don't? use the blended

Turbo heavy just makes less power for less complexity.

[gray trail]

yeah base also requires a bit more sulfur, but way less oil

[vapid gorge]

base is less oil more coal
blend is more oil less coal

[delicate night]

that take the purple thing

[gray trail]

I wonder what the benefit of turbo heavy fuel is

[vapid gorge]

less complexity, and possibly is nice within an ammunition factory

[vapid gorge]

heavy oil residue yes. Heavy Turbo uses that instead. The other recipes you can use Diluted fuel and stretch out your oil more so Base and Blend get used more often

[gray trail]

I guess it's one step less, and no blenders

[vapid gorge]

doesn't need water for hte dilute step do which is one less consideration?

[gray trail]

true

[vapid gorge]

and if you don't need much of it perfect for ammunition

it's a niche recipe though yeah

Mcgal got it right when alt recipes either fall in Generalist or Specialist

[delicate night]

what hte

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch fuel

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=fuel

[vapid gorge]

check out hte diluted fuel recipes

[delicate night]

is Rocket Fuel any better

[vapid gorge]

it's just more steps adding more items turning them into 'oil'

each higher tier fuel power option is effectively just converting other resources to oil

[delicate night]

ok

[vapid gorge]

like you always have the option to just make more diluted fuel for example.

[vapid gorge]

do rocket fuel if you think it'll be fun

[vapid gorge]

also here's a plan for turbo fuel, you can change the settings up if you like

sorry, here's the plan. I turned SAM off https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=WLEUasb0xeSvmxVzMOOG

[delicate night]

thank but i like how the one i show look

[vapid gorge]

I mean, at least use that link for the math and totals, you can recreate it in modeler faster that way. That plan took literally 5 seconds

[vapid gorge]

sorry forgot an important recipe in that last link https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=NcFSdk8abuSmZRTSOcAK

[delicate night]

thank but i like how i can make it

and the site is also so lagy

[opaque quartz]

Keep in mind the amount of power generated by burning turbo or rocket fuel is the same as regular fuel. 250 MW at 100% OC per fuel generator. The different recipes change how much you can make for a given set of resources, but the fuel itself burns the same

What turbo and rocket fuel give you is a longer burn time, which means you can run more generators for a given amount of fuel

So asking what the “best” recipe is for “most power” is contingent on what resources you have available (oil, coal, sulfur, nitrogen, water) and in what quantities, and how much complexity you want to produce a given amount of output

And then you gotta go build a metric shitton of fuel gens, especially with rocket fuel

[inner lion]

can I have multiple drones landing at the same drone port?

[violet turtle]

After 600 hrs I just realized the fluid images are them in a pipe meter

I’m so dumb , I thought they were in a container thing

[dense python]

how many water extractors for 6 coal gens? I dont have enough coal for 8 yet

[inner zealot]

Honestly? Just do a layout for the set of 8 and then add them later on

[dense python]

im using mk1 pipes

[inner zealot]

You can do a full set of 8 on mk 1 pipes.

[burnt wraith]

you'll just have to use more than 1 pipe

[inner zealot]

coal is mainly your limit, not the pipes.

This is my set of 8 of 16 generators on one coal node using mk 1 pipes. It has 100% uptime with no issues.

Easy way to do it.

[dense python]

so mk1 pipes are enough for an 8 gen setup

good to know

finished the setup, finally free from biofuel

[vapid gorge]

well there's more than 1 connection, that's why

you can't do it down one pipe

[vapid gorge]

you probably don't want more than 2 though, they have a full 1min take off landing animation and are very fast

[vapid gorge]

@coarse forge don't mix the waste and the fresh water together

Blue line is fresh, red is waste

[coarse forge]

im trying to connect the fresh with waste to reuse it but it seems not to work

[vapid gorge]

"don't mix the waste and the fresh water together"

[coarse forge]

so how do i use the waste?

[vapid gorge]

did you look at the image and the description?

[coarse forge]

so i have to underpower machines and make a few use only he wastye yeah?

[vapid gorge]

or over clock

[coarse forge]

okay

ill try doing it

[vapid gorge]

for example this is the clockings for sloppy alumina + electrode scrap

the top is processing 780 bauxite, the bottom 600.

but it'll be different for every recipe combo and volume you're doing

[vapid gorge]

example ratios of various recipe combos

you don't have to set it up exactly like those diagrams, these just show you how much is being clocked using fresh and waste waters

[rain sun]

@coarse forge I want to add something: It looks like everything is on one level, same height. You could try to insert a pipeline junction "vertically" that takes the waste water from below the fresh water, so put the waste water to the junction that is down. The pipe system in Satisfactory is designed to propritize water from the bottom and it also fills pipes from the bottom to the top (which is why it is benefitial to feed the machines from the top so that they are full even when the pipes are not). The system is not physically accurate in this manner but when you understand the concepts, it works good.
Please see for example the first comment in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snGrw1p9OIM
It is also shown in this video live (also works without valves, but vales prevent backflow) and it also shows how you can override the bottom behavior with pumps, very helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTzUVk9sUns

[coarse forge]

sorry to bother again but im trying to get 900 scrap from rafinery. if i have 200m3 of water should i use more and underclock or overclock?

[vapid gorge]

I would need more info, what recipes you're doing, how much bauxite , ect

[coarse forge]

noo im building it in the sky and water is going upwards using pumps

[coarse forge]

up to 600bauxite using sloppy and notmal scrap

[vapid gorge]

tools says you're making 1080 scrap

[rain sun]

You can override with additional pumps then, when you have a pump from the fresh water supply that is vertically below the waste water backfill pipes, add a pump to the waste water pipe and since that pump is vertically above the pump from the fresh water, it will make the waste water prioritize. This is shown to some extent in the second video, the highest pump vertically prtioritizes over vertically lower pumps.

Don't use a valve then, use a pump on the waste water. And it should work.

[coarse forge]

i underclock my miners to 500 so it can make perfectly 900

[vapid gorge]

ok so you're not using 600 bauxite then

[coarse forge]

yes, thats why i typed up to

[vapid gorge]

specific numbers pls 🙂

so according to this you need to set your refinery or refineries using fresh water to whatever uses 200 water pm

and then a refinery or refineries set to use 300 waste water pm

from the looks of it you can probably have 1 refinery doing fresh and 1 doing waste

[coarse forge]

in that case i have to mix fresh with waste

[vapid gorge]

why?

[coarse forge]

when it says 2.5x doesnt it mean to overclock it 250%?

[rain sun]

No you build 3 machines, one at 50%

[vapid gorge]

that's in total you need 250% spread out however you need it

this is the example diagram for your recipes

so in yoru case the diagram shows 100% refinery doing fresh and 150% doing waste

that means you need 1.5x as muich WASTE clocking as fresh.

shockingly this is exactly the diagram you're doing with 500 bauxite

you could have 1x100% refinery doing Fresh water
1x150% refinery doing Waste water if you want

make sense?

[coarse forge]

okay now i understand, can i send you when i finish this so u can tell me if its correct?

[vapid gorge]

sure 🙂

[rain sun]

@coarse forge here the commenter from the first YouTube video made an example, it shows how the water from the bottom is prioritized in the sky although the fresh water is supplied with pumps, but the waste water is prioritized because it fills from the bottom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJt88xULrw
I guess it's also important that the feeding pumps are situated below the level of the bottom waste water pipe, it would not work this way if they were above.

[vapid gorge]

As a note @coarse forge a VIP, the name for the junction, is not a supre reliable method. It'll work or it won't. Sometimes replicating it, seemingly exactly, won't give the same results. There's really no great way to trouble shoot them except poking at them. It's why I don't recommend them.

If you want to play around with systems like that go for it but be don't be surprised if it takes a lot of work. Or it could work first time round.

Even the person who discovered them calls it black magic.

[rain sun]

I think it depends a lot on the rest of the system, if there are pumps involved, it matters a lot where and how high they are situated.

It could not work on large systems when there are pumps far away that break the headlift, like with water tower concepts.

[vapid gorge]

yeah no one has come up with a standard trouble shooting method for them. And they really do work off black magic

Like, they're options sure, but I don't like giving people solutions that can't be logically worked.
Even direct feeding, which is what they were doing at the start, can work. I just don't recommend it

I think the difference is like throwing darts at an elevator button to get where you're going, or just pushing it with your finger

except at least you know what went wrong when you miss

[rain sun]

I understand your point! Still, since the system follows some defined rules in the code, there has to be a reliable way.

So when it does not work, there is something in the setup that alters the situation.

[vapid gorge]

maybe? even mcgal hasn't found the reason why the bottom pipe has priority though. Seems to be just an artifact of the way pipes have been set up

so it's not surprising there's weird exceptions that break it that are basically invisible

[rain sun]

Well we don't know the internal system code, maybe it's a logical consequence of how the system works... it might not have to be defined explicitely but implicitly.

[vapid gorge]

could be how junctions are set up to output too? shrug

like, if you can create a standard operating procedure of debugging seeminglyg perfect VIPs that are actually non functional? document the crap out of it and show it to mcgal

but in my time here all I've seen is basically 'poke at it and rebuild parts until it works'

which is an option mind you. Lots of people are willing to do that

[rain sun]

I havn't seen non-functional examples yet, I am not so active here, maybe a thorough examination of a systematic collection of those issues could give the break through. Is there a collection of such non-functional savegames?

[vapid gorge]

nah, you'd probably find a few in threads in the qna posts, no actual save games. And... if you're willing to scroll through mountains of comments, lots in this channel.

but people having problems with VIPs is pretty common

not as common as problems with direct feeds, but common

[rain sun]

I mean the 'poke at it and rebuild parts until it works' recommendation is not really better than me posting videos of VIPs that work(ed) 😅

[vapid gorge]

VIPs are on the more reliable side of waste fluid management. But not nearly as reliable as keepign them split

yeah and some people just have a method and pattern of puting down pipes where they never have issues with VIPS

where as I've built things like this taht run perfectly and I've had issues with them

[rain sun]

I think the VIPs in mcgals guide are also more complex than needed and moreover they don't mention that the headlift of the remaining system also plays a role (if I remember correctly). So just slapping a VIP does not work if you have some pumps around in other parts.

[vapid gorge]

I've never read up on them that deep tbh, I do other wonky things like bottom feeding that just require a much higher level of reliability.

[rain sun]

I never had issues with pipes myself that I could not solve, it was usually an issue with a combination of verticality, headlift, and pressure (which pumps also apply as the guide tells), but I have to admit that they are complex and need a lot of time to understand to some extent.
But in my opinion, "black magic" is not actually happening because the code contains a clear set of rules. That set of rules is not phyiscally accurate completely, yes, this is why people think it is black magic, but actually, there always has to be a reason for why something happens. Or it's a bug. But I believe most bugs of the pipeline system have been fixed.

[coarse forge]

okay thanks you all but iv giot a bigger problrm. i dont have enough electricity LOL

[rain sun]

haha, that's an entirely different issue

[vapid gorge]

I suppose? but when there's invisible code you can't reliably test it may as well be black magic 🙂

[rain sun]

I get your point but I want to refuse to believe that it is black magic, there always must be a reason why a computer calculates something like it does. And I don't think the pipe system is based on a random number generator, so apart from floating point precision issues, there should always be a reason. And I think that there might be pipe systems that are simply so complex that we fail to find out that reason. For example, imagine a global water system with a single water tower at the highest position so that no pumps are needed anywhere. I believe in such a system VIPs might not work reliable when they are slapped down. But the reason could be the total head lift overriding each other head lift from the high water tower, which is why no other pumps are needed. You see my point? There is a reason, but the system is too complexly built to find it out anymore. It was just an example.

[vapid gorge]

@teal river see this ? if I fed it 120 ore , 30 per smelter, it would self balance

the first machine will fill up first sure, but the over flow would go to the next ones

all you need is enough items on the belt and a fast enough belt

@teal river are you looking ?

[teal river]

this is my current setup

[vapid gorge]

ok see this ?

[teal river]

ye

[vapid gorge]

you have smelters making 180 and 285 ingots right?

[teal river]

do i?

how do i make them make that amount precisely

[wind spade]

how much one makes?

[vapid gorge]

well with the base recipe you feed 180 ore into smelters

[teal river]

my belts cant carry 465 items per min

[vapid gorge]

you can have more than 1 belt

[wind spade]

the arrow doesn't represent belt

it represents logistic flow, it can be a belt, multiple belts, a train, a drone, 5 trucks, 27 people running around carrying things, ...

[teal river]

ok well i have the furnaces what next

[wind spade]

how much does one smelter make?

[teal river]

30/min

[wind spade]

how many smelters making 30/min do you need to have 180/min for iron plates?

[teal river]

6?

[wind spade]

see, it's that easy 🙂

so you merge 6 smelters to go to iron plates, merge rest to go to rods

[teal river]

so i need to find 2 more iron nodes

[wind spade]

(you can use multiple belts, don't need to merge them to one belt)

[wind spade]

well you need nodes to make 465/min in total

[vapid gorge]

(you can also reduce the amount per min you're making in that plan if it makes it simpler for you , those were just example numbers I plugged in)

[teal river]

ive got 10 miners for this

[wind spade]

for example, since you need 6 smelters to go to 6 constructors, you could also build them 1:1 right next to each other

[teal river]

all of them are on impure nodes

thats 300/min

[wind spade]

you can overclock

[teal river]

belts

[wind spade]

no, miners

[teal river]

mk1 only holds 60/min

even if i were to overclock it wouldnt be useful

[wind spade]

if one miner makes 30/min, you can definitely overclock it to 60/min

[teal river]

true ig

thats 2 shard though

so 20 slugs in total

and i only have 7

[wind spade]

I mean, you can also just plan for different amount like Cobalt said

[teal river]

i might as well just afk my super slow current farm overnight at this point

[wind spade]

that's not a good habbit tbh

(also Satisfactory doesn't have farming)

[teal river]

bro

you know i meant factory

[wind spade]

sure, but why call it farm then?

[teal river]

because i dont only play this game and in other games factories can be referred to as farms

[wind spade]

no factory game I've played refers to factories as farms

[teal river]

its the same thing dawg

[wind spade]

it kinda isn't 🤷

[teal river]

iron factory could be an iron farm

[wind spade]

factory:

a building or group of buildings where goods are manufactured or assembled chiefly by machine

farm:

an area of land and its buildings, used for growing crops and rearing animals

[teal river]

also like all "factories" are referred to as farms in minecraft which is what i primarily play and is extremely similar to this game for sure

and does it even matter bro

[wind spade]

minecraft refers to them as "farms", because you're growing things 🤷

you're "farming" wood and animals and crops

[teal river]

ah yes my gold farm yeah

yeah my iron farm yeah

[rain sun]

I am farming lizzard doggos.

[wind spade]

in that case you're "farming" mobs

[teal river]

i can call it whatever i want

[wind spade]

you can, but it's generally better to call things properly, especially for people that don't speak english as a first language or don't speak it at all and use a translator

[teal river]

oh no

i dont even wanna know what makes these 2

[vapid gorge]

first focus on automating all the b asic parts 🙂

[rain sun]

Project Assembly farm required.

[teal river]

yeah i have automated everything except steel

well i gtg for a bit so be back later

[coarse forge]

i have made 1 steelfarm that produces almost 600 ingots per minute. i gotta say if i knew things that i know now it would be much easier

[teal river]

yeah but ur prob super late game

[rain sun]

It's a natural process of learning things and rebuilding with new and better knowledge. Mistakes are there to be made to learn from them. It's fine really!

It's impossible to use the best method right from the start. Especially because everyone defines "best method" differently.

[wind spade]

generally I recommend to not rebuild, keep old factories and make new ones

[rain sun]

I didn't mean to say rebuild existing factories, I meant to say new factories that are build again (re-build, as in build similar factory again).

But yes, definition issue. And language barrier.

[wind spade]

well "rebuild" usually means "tear down and build new again", I don't think I've ever heard it in context of "build the same thing again"

(tho it may be just me)

[rain sun]

I also meant it in the context of a new savegame but I guess it's a language thing as I meant "build new" without tearing down existing stuff that works.

Like a remake also doesn't tear down the original game. It's built new with new knowledge and tech.

Although sometimes you actually have to rebuild in the means of tearing down, because it doesn't work as intended.

So, please interpret it the way you need it, what I said above!

[granite totem]

Hey guys, i built a tower as a central hub for hypertubes... do you guys have any advice/tips to be able to build them at high height easily ?

[coarse forge]

new powerplant

[vapid gorge]

hover pack?

or remove the foundations after you're done

[granite totem]

For long distance probably need to put support too... i don't see any other option than putting foundation+wall+wall hole ....

To do something "clean"

[vapid gorge]

seems reasonable.
a good rule of thumb with architecture in this game : if you see something cool? there were probably 3x as many objects built as there exists currently

[granite totem]

Btw I am using hypertubes canon methode (stacking entrance etc...) do you know if it works if i do the same at the exit ?

[wind spade]

eh since it's basically a bug, who knows what "works" and what doesn't

[rain sun]

I thought it was "officially" introduced again after that "bug" was fixed in UE5?

[granite totem]

Is it really a bug ? it seems just like gaining momentum with multiple entrance...

[wind spade]

which is a bug

it was caused by UE4 miscalculation or something, and they manually reimplemented it to U8/1.0 because people cried they wanted they OP transportation method back

is kinda pointless now with travel being reduced to one-time going somewhere to build a factory and in lategame portals

[granite totem]

Lategame portals ?

[wind spade]

yeah

[rain sun]

It still can help to boost hypertube travel speed, but it's right what you say.

[wind spade]

yeah which is why I wanted them to remove canons and replace them with hypertube boosters

[rain sun]

Oh never heard of that idea, I like it!

[wind spade]

which would be basically a pipe pump put on hypertubes

but you couldn't stack them to get more

[vapid gorge]

yeah pretty much just what greeny has said 🙂

[rain sun]

Is there a QA post that I can upvote?

[vapid gorge]

doesn't each joint along a hyper tube give you a little boost?

[rain sun]

yeah but its so small

[vapid gorge]

have a number of them 😛

[wind spade]

in the idea I've suggested, hypertubes would go at constant speed

[oblique hollow]

It caps out

[rain sun]

It's faster to slide jump with biofuel in most cases than to use hypertubes.

[wind spade]

I didn't make QA post since they reintroduced the "bug" so I assumed they want to keep it that way 🤷

[rain sun]

I see

[wind spade]

(also most people are against removing the "fun and super OP canons")

[rain sun]

But it could be added

I mean in addition

[wind spade]

I guess it's always "fun above balance" for most people

[granite totem]

I think that using hypertube canon in both entrance/exit will get you stuck on the first support from the other side

And i just seen that there was potal lategame (which imho is great)

[rain sun]

I think something like a hypertube booster would lead to me using hypertubes more, because I find the cannon built quite big and a bit fiddly to get the right amount of entrances and not so vanilla nice. I never used them after having tried them once but I would use hypertube boosters if they were a thing!

And that doesn't mean to remove hypertube cannons for those who want them.

[granite totem]

Yeah it takes a lot of space

[wind spade]

unfortunately you're like one of a 100 that thinks that way, most people don't like the idea of removing the OP thing

[rain sun]

This is why I would give you my upvote. But again, the cannon doesn't need to be removed. It would simply be an "alternative recipe" for the "same thing".

And the game is full of alternative transport methods and build ways.

In my opinion, it would be great.

[wind spade]

the problem is that my solution makes entrances not give you a boost but instead a set speed, which would invalidate cannons

[rain sun]

Wouldn't it also work that the hypertube booster simply adds to already existing speed if below a certain threshold? You don't alter the existing system but the booster checks if you are below a certain travel speed and adds to that if you are and does nothing if you are above. This way you could plant the boosters where you are becoming slower, like on vertical sections. The speed might not be completely constant, but trains also don't have a constant speed, it would not really not fit...

[oblique hollow]

that would once again only accelerate you back up to that set speed limit

and i think thats also kinda the point of what greeny ment with "boosters"

hypertubes make you naturally lose speed, adding boosters to the current system would only accelerate you back to some set max speed, either all in one go or by a small amount

[rain sun]

Yeah but that would be really nice, there could be two or three Mk of boosters for different tiers until portals are there and they could speed up the travel for hypertubes, especially because they loose speed and that sometimes makes them slow in comparison to other travel methods. I know the world loading has it's difficulties but the speed doesn't need to be extreme and I think people accept a bit of stuttering here with fast travel. They do with hypertube cannons.
Moreover, hypertube cannons could still work for those who don't want to use the boosters and they suffer from the same issues.

[wind spade]

in my suggestions tubes would keep constant speed

(but could be done even with variable speed, though I don't like that idea much)

[oblique hollow]

and my guess is the devs dont wanna add 3 tiers of some object because they want them to be visually distinct and that seems not very worth it for this system

[wind spade]

see e.g. #satisfactory message

[oblique hollow]

and also of course "more objects to manage"

[rain sun]

Alternatively, there could also be a booster setting like with valves, but I don't know if this feels good.
I just think the hypertubes are a bit below their possible impact that they could have, if there would be junctions and/or boosters.

[coarse forge]

is this only my problem or is it common? all of my machines combined need 585m3 of water. my pumps generate exacly this much but sometimes my pumps just stop working beacuse there is no room for more?

[oblique hollow]

Mk 2 Pipes require a bit of special care when you work near the limit

sometimes it works well, sometimes not.
Your case seems to be one where extra work is required

[granite totem]

Ok i did find a way to make hypertube canon works both ways

[opaque quartz]

I would just clock your extractors to produce 600 and overproduce for a bit until all your pipes and machine buffers are completely full

[coarse forge]

they are and extractors just shut down even tho they make perfectly as much as its needed

[opaque quartz]

Ah, so the extractors buffers are backing up causing them to occasionally go idle?

[oblique hollow]

thats what they wrote

the extractors (pumps, wrong word choice but anyway) go idle because they cant put more in the pipe

[coarse forge]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

can you post images of the pipes and junctions near your machines?

not from the menus, just from the outside

[violet turtle]

hmfs done

was kinda running out of room at the end

makes 11.25 slooped

[livid turret]

Hypertubes have acceleration while you are traveling in them but is a slow ramp up.
A hypertube loop cannon would allow you to travel insanely fast with just 30 MW. The design uses the possibility of moving slightly left or right while exiting the hypertubes to keep yourself in the acceleration loop until you decide to be launched to the hypertube line

[rain sun]

You are right, the loops are a bit wonky sometimes I think because they depend on the FPS if I remember correctly. But you are right.

Still it feels like a "workaround" for a hyperloop booster.

[violet turtle]

shouldl i use turbofuel for drones or just make batteries

whats more oil efficient

[hazy hill]

am i did it right? under the 13.75 sign is the 13th ref, which processes 100% of the left input. the remnants of the left input (overflow) go further, to the 14th ref, which is fed from the lower input. the lower input also goes along 13 refs and then the same construction

[livid turret]

I prefer to look at it like mad science that ADA would disapprove lol

[violet turtle]

so is this saying that using turbofuel is more oil efficient for purely raw MJ value?

wondering if the +7 m/s is worth

is it possible to calculate how far one unit of drone fuel goes

[opaque quartz]

!wikisearch drone

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=drone

[livid turret]

Batteries stack are bigger, theoretically you could plan for longer paths.
In the end, how fast it goes will be important depending on the production of items you are transporting, slower path could mean more stacks need to be transported per trip to maintain your throughput

You could also build batteries using the normal recipe and avoid oil completely and also use less sulfur

[opaque quartz]

Packaged rocket fuel is also good for drones. Same top speed as batteries

[balmy sandal]

quick question about pipes. if I use the MK2 pipes instead of MK1 on a system that would only be transporting like 325m^3 Will that be fine or am I better splitting it up and using smaller pipes

Side note. I hate Fluids.

[oblique hollow]

Its fine, will fluctuate a lot tho

So while it transports 325, you will see waves of 600/min followed by waves of like 20/min

90% of pipe flow tends to flucguate up and down and move around an "average value"

Just be careful with how you organize your pipes.

Feeding machinea from below (every single pipe that goes into a machine goes upwards into them) is a lot trickier than anything else

[balmy sandal]

| did learn this lesson the hard way. now I pipe all my fluids to the top of my structure and pipe it down from there

[opaque quartz]

Pre filling the pipes all the way helps eliminate the majority of the issues you might see, but yeah the flow rate will not stay constant at 325 if you watch it for a bit

[cerulean stratus]

that's manufacturer 1

What about 2 to 10

[dense python]

should I sink reinforced plates? I've only barely just reached phase 2 and I have a pretty good reinforced plate/rotor factory

[cerulean stratus]

they're not really limited, the only limit is your capacity to make them

so yes

but I'm sure you'll turn those rips into something else

[dense python]

is there a quicker way to change the material of my factory? im trying to replace the foundations with concrete

[forest mica]

man i've never been more frustrated with fluids xD so in my aluminum setup i have 3 refineries producing 600 aluminum scrap and 200 water each (water being the important part) so thats producing 600 total water per minute, right. so i then have 2 refineries taking in 500 water each (so 1000 water per min) so there's only a difference of 400 water/min. so i have two nearby water pumps adding into that line making a total input of 1000 water to match with what it needs. The problem is this setup keeps overflowing and the water backs up, i have a buffer attached to the system and the buffer just fills up so it mush be making more water than it's consuming and the numbers say it shouldn't be lmao

[forest mica]

press "x"

[wind spade]

separate fresh and byproduct water

[forest mica]

or go to your build menu and at the top you should see "customizer"

[wind spade]

(also don't use buffers)

[forest mica]

the buffer was mainly to test if it just fluxuated at all or if it was actually over producing

this is basically the setup im trying to make work

things are overclocked tho so it's much less of each of those buildings

[wind spade]

have separate refineries that take the extractor water and separate refineries that take the byproduct water

[forest mica]

wait i think valves might be able to save me here

i always forget about them

[wind spade]

no, never ever use valves

unless you 100% know what you're doing

[inner lion]

Is there any way or trick to tell a machine to not load a full stack of the input items? and only load the amount needed, or some other threshold. to stop a machine from loading 200 items while the other machines are idling and not working

given enough time and enough items I know it will balance out. but working on like phase 4 / phase 5 project parts where input items are scarce, but want to maximize speed with as many machines

[dense python]

no, im asking if theres a way to paint multiple things at the same time

[inner lion]

Do I need to have fuel on both sides of the drone port? I though I would only need it on one side, but just had a drone get stuck because no fuel at one port

[oblique hollow]

No, those tricks dont exist.

The only thing you can do is load balance machines. But that requires a lot of work depending on the circumstance

[oblique hollow]

One side is enough, as long as the other end does have fuel

i had this issue come up when i switched to 1.0
Resolved it once and then it kept working fine

[mint breach]

does anyone know how to use a train that goes back and fort? So one pulling in one direction and one that pulls in the opposite?

[charred saffron]

Yeah, that just works like normal as long as the train stations are at the direction the train is going as it enters

It's still advisable to use dual tracks just as futureproofing the logistics network (trust me, adding a 2nd track after the fact is NOT fun, especially on aesthetic builds), but yeah locs on both sides of the train works fine

[mint breach]

ok, thanks

[inner lion]

why do I have a drone just flying off the edge of the map?

away from any of my factory and ports?

[inner zealot]

Just to confirm, the packaged fuel when unpackaged does not consume the containers right? I can just feed those directly back into the system?

[jovial wyvern]

Yes, people often re-use containers for diluted packaged fuel, for example.

[jovial wyvern]

Can the fresh and recycled water be combined by packaging it, merging the belts, and then unpackaging? Unnecessarily complicated, but possible, right?

[opaque quartz]

You still have the same problem if the recycled water backs up it will jam the whole system. The jam will just be in the packager instead of the refinery in that case

[dense python]

zipline or hypertube

[inner zealot]

hypertube cannon if it's far.

[dense python]

alright, how do I zipline without smashing my face into the power pole

I have outlets but only inside factories

[inner zealot]

easiest way, is to use the power towers.

most effective way of doing that.

longest cable distance on wires and works for zip line seamlessly

Like so.

[crimson moat]

just rotate the towers so that you have a straight path and not smack into them 😄

[]-----------------[] good

[]---------------= bad

[acoustic galleon]

[]_____________[] better 😉

[vapid kernel]

You can 100% mix (fluids) waste and fresh water with no byproduct backing up in machines. Junction behavior. Higher inputs have priority in and lower ones have priority out

[hazy hill]

so i need to put it on 3.2308% clock speed? bruh

why 652?
1631/2.5=652.4 so i need 653 refiners. last refinery is 3.2308% speed

oh, it was wrong calculated. i need to put it 6% clock

[jovial wyvern]

Or, take the last refinery that's at 250%, and break it into two refineries, each at 128%. That gets you your final 250+6%.

[vapid kernel]

It looks fairly correct after over an hour of telling chat GPT it is showing very wrong numbers. ai kids these days. Yeesh

Nope. way off for consumption rate

[wind spade]

don't use AI for this lol

[vapid kernel]

This is using the results form a Youtube video

lol. So hard to find the info

[wind spade]

wiki has all the info

[vapid kernel]

the speed and energy content comes from that site. The rest I could not see

[vapid gorge]

this doesn't look right either

[vapid kernel]

Ah thanks

[vapid gorge]

why is TF being used almost 3x as much as reg fuel

when it has 3x the energy content?

[wind spade]

rest are weird, since drones do not consume "items/min"

[vapid kernel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQaZhuh8kmE&ab_channel=Finlay

That is where the other info comes from. in the comments

Is distance but that was his results

[wind spade]

afaik drone fuel usage depends on distance between ports

it's not per minute value

[vapid kernel]

Yeah. I need a list to compare each of them though

Even if representative close enough

[wind spade]

compare them using the wiki list then

has all you need

[vapid kernel]

It doesn't have consumption amount though

[wind spade]

because it varies

but generally, more MJ = less per minute consumed

[vapid kernel]

A list of item amount against each other is way easier to compare

[wind spade]

item amount?

[vapid kernel]

as in how many of each item type do I need for the same distance

[vapid gorge]

except this has to be wrong right?

why would you trust anything else on that chart?

[wind spade]

that depends on a lot of things

[vapid kernel]

It has been wrong many times. Quite possibly

[wind spade]

wiki literally says this

Drones will use different fuels at different rates depending on their path, the given fuel's energy value, and the speed of the drone, which also varies based on fuel type.

[vapid kernel]

exactly

[wind spade]

how does the path appear in your table?

[vapid kernel]

how different

not just in MJ

[wind spade]

how do you differentiate between drones taking different paths?

[vapid kernel]

when comparing any 1 given path

[wind spade]

because the value you're trying to get is not possible to calculate without asking about concrete journey

it can use more/less per minute depending on path shape or speed it takes, etc.

[vapid kernel]

for eg 5 TF = 1 ionized fuel. a list in that format

[wind spade]

for that you can just compare the MJs

it has twice as much MJs? it's twice as good

[vapid kernel]

a list for easy comparison

[wind spade]

what is easier than "bigger number better" lol

[vapid kernel]

So I can easily look at it and go well I need way more of that but the time might be less

And know what kind of amount I need to make of each

[wind spade]

you wouldn't know until the drone makes the journey

same as you don't know how much a truck route uses until you do the journey

[vapid kernel]

True. A table or tables with set distances works great

The youtube one was a long distance

[wind spade]

it's not just about distance, it's about path

drones try to go around obstacles and such

[vapid kernel]

Change fuel type but same path

Not many factors changing. That wouldn't be comparable when looking a table

[wind spade]

you have a table on wiki that has all info you need to compare

no idea why you want to make up parameters and compare them, especially if you're gonna generate them using AI (which is notoriously bad with numbers)

[vapid kernel]

can you easily compare consumption rate when looking at it

[wind spade]

yes

[vapid kernel]

I don't want to math every MJ against each other every time and try to remember. That is why a table

[wind spade]

then make excel table, it takes way less time and will be actually correct

[vapid kernel]

I doubt it. It finds more info than me after poking it enough. Haha

[wind spade]

you mean wrong info?

the excel table would take two minutes to make

[vapid kernel]

The info still comes from the same sources. Manual making it is just slower

[wind spade]

took me 1 minute

the third row is "how many times is it better than fuel"

[vapid kernel]

Unless they have explicitly said the burn mechanics of each fuel type then I won't have 100% accurate info

Ah nice. Thanks

[wind spade]

burn mechanics?

they just burn MJ

so more MJ = longer lasting piece of fuel

[vapid kernel]

How it is exactly consumed

Distance. Is the landing and takeoff also extra, etc

[wind spade]

that's irrelevant for the comparison

because it will be the same for each fuel, you always need X MJ to do something

[vapid kernel]

That is right. What I said earlier

[wind spade]

no, you were talking about consumption per minute

[vapid kernel]

As well, yes. I want to know that to fo r production

[wind spade]

yeah but for that you need to build the route and see what the game tells you

[vapid kernel]

And just being able to say. Well That amount of that item vs another amount of another. To compare what more I have spare of. Many things like that

A table with such things even close enough is useful in many ways. Ideally exact but maybe not possible

[wind spade]

yeah if you want per minute rates, you can't get them with anything other than asking devs how exactly does the calculation work

which is just another reason why you shouldn't trust AI with anything

[vapid kernel]

It is either in the patch notes or not

[wind spade]

no it's not in patch notes

[vapid kernel]

My point. Can't be exact

[wind spade]

so... why do you want it if you can't get the value

[vapid kernel]

AI is bad but also not hard to know if it is right or wrong

"many reasons" many sharred

[wind spade]

why use something that is bad and not trusted?

[vapid kernel]

comparable works

close enough works

[wind spade]

I spent 1 minute and gave you exact values to compare

[vapid kernel]

I literally used those numbers then you sharred after. If you don't get why then that is ok

[gray trail]

ew AI

Never input numbers

Always keep it symbolic so you can easily spot mistakes

[opaque quartz]

chatGPT in the math and meta channel. My goodness

[vapid kernel]

It is pretty bad

[inner zealot]

... I would never trust ai for math due to how often it can hallucinate.

[vapid kernel]

If I prvide the info it is fine. Otherwise it is always being stoopid

I got a table now made that I can look at and get an idea of all things relating to drones

The numbers do check out fine

[inland steppe]

does someone know how to make it so when you fill up a container the excess just goes into a awsome sink?

[inner zealot]

Easiest way is to use smart splitter overflow

[opaque quartz]

Please stop posting the same question in multiple channels

I already answered you in main

[inner zealot]

The main thing is to do ====[^ Container > Overflow] ===== [^Next container > Overflow] ==(repeat as many times you have containers or items you need to sort) ==== Awesome Sink

... I now see his question in other channel

Yeah, that's not cool.

[opaque quartz]

Apparently taking more than 30s to get an answer wasn’t good enough

[inner zealot]

Anyway.... just got my 50 encased beams and 9 motors per minute factories done.

Big upgrade, though power's an issue now. haha.

[opaque quartz]

The ciiircle of life satisfactory

[inner zealot]

Yeah... and those two said factories are producing crap for my upcoming fuel gen

I could do turbofuel to start with for my fuel power

though I'm capped by the belt speed.

[opaque quartz]

Diluted fuel is also a good option if you have one of those alts unlocked. There’s a recipe at tier5 (packaged) and another at tier7 (requires blenders)

[livid turret]

All praise packaged diluted fuel

[inner zealot]

That's literally what I plan to set up.

This is my plan for the refinery, The only question is the turbofuel. I have mk 4 belts for max and that's my hard cap for what I can produce for pet coke

[opaque quartz]

Reminder that fuel gens produce the same amount of power regardless of the fuel used (250MW at 100% clock)

[inner zealot]

normal fuel is 10k power in that,

turbofuel is 22k

[opaque quartz]

Yep, at the expense of coal and sulfur and placing a lot more generators

[inner zealot]

Yeah.

Though it does make the oil go a lot further

[opaque quartz]

I skipped over turbo fuel and went straight to nitro rocket fuel

[livid turret]

Simpler to tap 600 oil and get 20k from normal fuel than to transport enough sulfur and coal

But... If you want turbo and you enjoy the logistics challenges, go for it

[oblique latch]

Running into something very odd on my Reinforced Plates Despite having materials and output buffers being cleared I occasionally catch the machines idling for no reason I can understand.

[livid turret]

Weird, have you tried rebuilding?

[oblique latch]

Yeah let me try real quick

[vapid gorge]

hoverpack

[inner zealot]

To be fair, going for normal fuel would allow for more rubber/plastic output too anyway

[oblique latch]

Not sure I understand?

[vapid gorge]

you're wearing a hoverpack. rare bug where it stutters machines on connecting to a grid

[oblique latch]

Oh okay, Haven't noticed it with other machines yet but that would explain it,

[vapid gorge]

yeah afaik no one has come up with the exact hardware/software situation where it can happen. I've got more than 3k hours in and never experienced it myself

so congrats on being part of a rather exclusive club 😛

[oblique latch]

Guess I'll just clock the assemblers to 100% to account for the loss then lol

[vapid gorge]

don't bother. It's a nothing bug

unless you're doing weird sushi load balancing stuff, where you'll need to create something like a faraday cage around your machines

and it won't happen when you're not around

[oblique latch]

Okay then nothing to worry about then.

[vapid gorge]

pretty much. Almost no one builds in a way where this bug will affect it.

[opaque quartz]

IIRC it only happens if you have more than one power grid and the hoverpack switches grids

[oblique latch]

Hmmm so maybe if I get rid of the power switch. to the factory and just have it connected to one grid

[vapid gorge]

I think I remember something about switches making it more likely

but not impossible for it to happen switchless

[oblique latch]

That seemed to fixed all of it! I noticed it was happening to all the factory branches and yeeting the power switches helped a bit

Still a little early to tell for sure but reinforced plates are running at 100% now

[wooden jasper]

How many modular frames should I make per min if I'm in the steel production phase

I need to expand my factory so I can make heavy modular frames but I probably need a lot of modular frames anyway right?

[vapid gorge]

there's no set amount. plan for however many you need for your heavy mods

this is one of the reasons why I just mush together all my parts and over produce everything. Don't have to think about how much of things while going up the tiers

[wooden jasper]

Yeah I guess

I'm going to use the modular frames recipe with reinforced plates and steel pipes because I made my steel factory way too big and I don't want to keep building more and more storages

But I'm looking at making 10 heavy modular frames per minute, so I need 50 modular frames to do that 💀

And then I can also sloop the assembler bc I have extra power

[vapid gorge]

eh, if you want. not like iron is rare

[inner zealot]

Iron and limestone are really common, I like to use alt recipies to boost iron output with the limestone then use alt recipies to make motors purely from iron.

[tacit shale]

So according to the amoount of Gens I have running I should produce 3450MW but what does the Capacity mean? It is @ 3540MW

[fallow siren]

thats from your biomass burner

[tacit shale]

Oh I see, how ever did you know that/ LOL

[outer vale]

multiples of 30, and also I think they're the only things that makes capacity <> production

[tacit shale]

Thank you, I did still have 3 biomass burners connected to the line. Thank you

[steady gate]

rare? i get it like every single time i connect to a power grid

[vapid gorge]

you must either build in a way that brings it on or have a the hardware/software that helps trigger it

most people never see it

[steady gate]

yayy i get to be special✨️✨️🥳

i mean, i build withpriority switches, but every time i go to a diffirent part of the factory that isnt seperated by a power switch only by poles it just puts the entire factory on idle for like 10 seconds

on places such as my iron plant its not a big deal but nuclear is going to get messed up by that

[steady gate]

and tbh i doubt its my hardware, im running the same as quite a few people here n they dont have that glitch

[vapid gorge]

small differences are probably where it's at

[steady gate]

love that

that does explain why my power grid crashed every time i got near my fuel plant

[vapid gorge]

it shouldn't be so unstable that a flicker crashes it :\

[steady gate]

it shut down all the refineries making fuel for long enough that the last in the loop lost fuel too fast

this was before i rebuilt the entire thing to use turbofuel and pipe loops

so it was all on a manifold

and at that point my plant was small enough that 4 of 5 not working generators blew the fuse on the grid

[vapid gorge]

iirc it should only stutter machiens for the minimal time so ... less than a second ? I think? Flood your whole fluid system though

[steady gate]

though i gotta admit, it was not a very good power plant😂

[vapid gorge]

turn down a few fuel gens so the whole thing floods and you won't have that issue. It's good for testing pipes too

[steady gate]

it was hororribly set up with only base recipies

even coal gens would've worked better than that plant XD

[vapid gorge]

ah well, most people's first times are pretty terrible 🙂

sleep time for me though! gn!

[steady gate]

tootles👋

[crimson moat]

Just build a basic amount of modular frames (what you need then and there)

When you make heavy modular frames just make more modular frames on the HMF floor/factory as part of the HMF recipe

[proud moon]

I just recently made a Coal Powered Generator that has 600mw, is that enough for my automations? I'm still at Phase 1

[outer vale]

as in, how long will it last you? highly dependent on your personal playstyle

[wind spade]

Heavily depends on how much you build

[north mauve]

Build more power when you need it and things will go smoothly

[north mauve]

For most things, you only need to build what you need right now. You'll get alternate recipes, better belts, and better miners as you progress and then you'll be able to make things differently (perhaps more efficiently/easier), which should line up with when you actually need more.

But also mod frames are a pretty low level item and it's best to not ship them around.

[wind spade]

@safe siren it is heavily recommended to not use valves and not load-balance pipes (as you did in #screenshots )

[safe siren]

oh why ?

[wind spade]

valves usually break things and fluids in general should be built as simple as possible

[wind spade]

see also #math-and-meta message

[fickle scaffold]

Planning to make a single railway to connect factories throughout the world with 2 lanes for 2 directions(blue\red) and run multiple(or even many) trains on it. For stations(yellow) I think of making elevated turnaround(black), is this the correct way of thinking to pull off such project?

Green are the block signs

[wind spade]

I'd put the station away from mainline

[safe siren]

damn that unlocky

[rain sun]

You only have to consider the fact that trains compute the shortest path from A to B directly, so when your train station C is within the shortest path between A and B and you have a bypass construction, trains won't take it since the bypass is a longer route. As such, trains will drive through the station C and if a train is loading/unload there, the remaining trains will wait and still not take the bypass. There is no dynamic rerouting once a path has been determined. So when you put the train stations away from the mainline, the way through the train station between A to B is longer than not through the train station and so trains waiting in C won't block trains from driving from A to B.
Did that make sense to you? TL;DR: make train stations the bypass and you will have less issues overall.

[fickle scaffold]

Yea, I understood that train stations shouldn't be on the mainline

[rain sun]

So when your train station is above the main line, it should also work. Simply not within it.

[fickle scaffold]

I still like the idea of elevated bypass in both directions though, will it work like I assume it would?

If I place it on the mainline near the stations

[rain sun]

Do you mean the train station is elevated? So vertically above the main line? That would work because the way through the train station is longer than the way without.

A train that wants to your train station will drive above to it, no issue. And trains that want from A to B drive below the train station and not through it.

[fickle scaffold]

I see, thanks for the help

[north mauve]

Just make sure your elevated rail isn't too close to the main rail, leave enough vertical space that collisions don't happen, and be careful about verticality and path signals

[rain sun]

This is the design that I usually use, the main line is below and the train station is besides the main line. If the train station is above the main line, it also works.

Here with orange path signals and green block signals, if I remember correctly.

[amber umbra]

That’s the “split t-junction” version. I like the version with a single t-junction intersecting the mainline.

[rain sun]

You mean with a loop at the end of the train station? I also did that occasionally, yes.

Depends on the location.

[amber umbra]

Broadly very similar. Have to play around with station designs to find what each person prefers.

[rain sun]

Certainly. I just wanted to give a working example on the "put away from mainline" concept with the path through the station being longer. There are tons of possible ways!

[amber umbra]

Yea, rail topology is an interesting topic. I find it cool that all single headed train setups have the train driving in a loop.

[rain sun]

I guess it was deduced from the pathfinding concepts. If the trains would use bypass constructions and dynamically reroute based on traffic estimations, we would probably design the rail network more openly minded 😅

[steady gate]

i love that everyone just puts their trains on the right hand side on double tracked rail systems XD

[rain sun]

Yeah because it works best with two foundations and the train signals not clipping

[outer vale]

pfft, left-hand drive Brit here

[steady gate]

i had to bully my friend into using right hand side rail systems as well XD

[rain sun]

Hehe. Don't you think it's the "right" way that trains drive on the "right" lane?

[steady gate]

oh ew hell nah, right side driving all the way

[rain sun]

It's in the description.

[steady gate]

exactly

they're driving on the right side

[ashen mauve]

Does anyone have a list of which fuels for drones work in which ways?

[wind spade]

wiki has

[ashen mauve]

Ok, can I get a link?

[wind spade]

just fyi, brits have right hand driving... but left hand traffic 🙂

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @wind spade

[wind spade]

@ashen mauve ^

[vapid kernel]

Does water and packaged water take up the same amount of train space?

[wind spade]

yes and no

fluid car can only carry half of what packaged car can, but if you're doing packages, you also have to have another car for return trip for the packages (or sink them and waste resources), so it's practically equal

however for nitrogen gas, the compression rate is 4:1, so there packaged trains are "better" in the sense of capacity

[vapid kernel]

Cool. Thanks. That's also interesting

I might do the packaged thing for my reactors which are in a tall building. belt up and down cycle

To avoid a lot of pumps

My train to the building probably will stay as water or be changed to pipes across the land

The piping I have done needs redoing since I would like 600 of water going to each reactor for full overclock

[ashen mauve]

Ty

[outer vale]

ackshually I believe you're meant to drive with both hands

[rain sun]

I think he meant that you sit in the right side of the car, but don't drive on the right side.
And yes, fully aggree, both hands driving of course. Like with trains in Satisfactory, one hand for the direction and acceleration, the other for viewing around.

[thick plank]

as long as you arent looking straight ahead i agree. Life is like a box of chocolates ... You never quite know when your gonna cause a catastrophic traincrash

[rain sun]

I just learned that what I wrote above with the shortest path is not completely true: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Electric_Locomotive#Pathfinding
Each station gives a penalty of 100 meters, so bypass constructions do work up to some extent. The train does not take the shortest path in case a train station is between and a bypass exists, which is shorter than 100 m in comparison to the train station. An example is shown in the newest video from TotalXclipse on YouTube, great knowledge, I am amazed that I did miss that!
Nevertheless, it's still recommended to avoid having train stations on the main line, because the 100 meter penalty is difficult to handle in practice and by having the train station aside from the main line, the pathfinding issue is nonexistent.

[wind spade]

yeah, there's two terms:
LHD (left-hand driving) - driver sits on left side of vehicle, traffic is on right side of road
LHT (left-hand traffic) - driver sits on right side of vehicle, traffic is on left side of road

those two get often confused 🙂

[rain sun]

Except in cases where a LHD vehicle is in a LHT situation. Or the other way round. Like with imported vehicles or when you take your vehicle to another country with opposite traffic directions. I mean, then your definitions need elaboration.

[wind spade]

well yeah

[north mauve]

As @amber umbra said, I think the station's rails coming together to simplify intersections is the better route

[inner zealot]

... Will this work? I dont want the two pipes to connect to to each other. But I'm worried that the junction crosses will do so anyway.

[north mauve]

Junctions cannot connect to junctions without pipe in the middle

[inner zealot]

ok, phew.

[inner zealot]

do you think I need a pump for the purple pipes? it's more or less returning to it's original height on the exit, Directly into refineries.

exit point

[versed violet]

if its going below, no pump needed, but if any spot goes higher than refinery, then it needs a pump

[inner zealot]

(Residue made in purple exported to white/orange for diluted packaged fuel)

So, should be ok?

[opaque quartz]

Try it and see. Bottom feeding can be tricky but since it’s otherwise all the same elevation it might work

[inner zealot]

Yeah, at least I'm not uh..... pumping it to another floor.

I'm curious, is there a maximum distance that fluids can go through pipes before flow rate becomes an issue?

Or is that only a concern with headlift?

[opaque quartz]

No linit for horizontal travel nor any falloff for flow rate

Only have to worry about head lift

Can you imagine if the pipes had some kind of internal friction coefficient in the simulation. Yikes

[steady gate]

that would be awful to calculate everything

[north mauve]

You'll find out

[unborn meadow]

Hi everyone, I am trying to use Satisfactory as a focus on a math paper in regards to calculus. To my knowledge, the function for the rate of a production for a machine is linear while its power consumption is quadratic. (ex. 100% vs 200% production vs power consumption). Thus, does anyone know the function for power consumption for the smelter or constructor? Or at least where I should start looking?

[vapid gorge]

the wiki will have all that

[unborn meadow]

gotcha

[vapid gorge]

what are you actually trying with this paper btw? because most of the game is fairly standard and linear. There's really only clocking that mechanically uses it.

[unborn meadow]

Yes. Given that I can overclock, I am trying to see if I can calculate some optimal clock setting for a miner, smelter, and constructor. Cus the production rate is linear but power consumption is a non-linear function.

Maximizing production while minimizing power draw

[vapid gorge]

oh, I mean if you're purely going for power draw 10,000 machines clocked at 0.01%

there's no extra costs to belting or having more cables so the more machines the more you underclock

you'll want to do something like conserving power while also accomplishing X as for only power conservation the answer will be 'the minimum you can clock every machine x number of machines you'll need'

[inner zealot]

when troubleshooting pump lift, if the top is showing flow rate of 300 that means I'm set right?

[patent lily]

with the somersloops doubling output of machines, what is the new maximum nuclear power setup possible? Best i got is 37.8 Plutonium, 50.4 Uranium and 188.54 Ficsonium with doubled SAM, Quartz and Bauxite (assuming there are enough Somersloops)

[vapid gorge]

I don't believe there are enough

[patent lily]

SAM Doubling only needs 34 sloops

[vapid gorge]

sure? but each manufacturer needs 4. That adds up FAST

[viral sparrow]

lets say hypothetically there is an infinite number of somersloop, what's the maximum number of rubber/plastic you can make witb recycled recipes

[vapid gorge]

figure out what the base is and then double each step

[viral sparrow]

i'm sure it won't be that much

[patent lily]

with only doubling SAM youd get 167 ficsonium but only using 88% of plutonium waste

[vapid gorge]

I hope that was sarcasm

[granite totem]

Hey guys, just to be sure, if a train station segment is set to load, when a freighter is passing by, even if there is items in his stock, it won't unload right ?

[viral sparrow]

'twas

[inner zealot]

So, I have a row of fuel gens lined up like so, two rows of 20 fuel gens each for a total of 40. I can power 30 gens on one pipeline then 10 on the other. I'm wondering what's better, do a J / U shape pipeline for the 30 gens and fill in the remaining 10 from the same entry point to keep the input direction the same?

[vapid gorge]

do 2 pipes.

if at all possible do not merge fluid manifolds

do 20 and 20. OR OC a bunch of stuff

[inner zealot]

This is more what I was thinking,

(once pipe on the right hits 10 gens that is.)

[vapid gorge]

well you also want to loop your feed pipes , like so

seriously though, keep your pipes as simple as you can. Good rule of thumb for all piping.

coal power is baby fluids. It's extremely resilient to bullshit

everything past coal? not so much

[inner zealot]

why is looping pipes so important?

failsafe?

[vapid gorge]

manages back flow in the input manifold

you don't always need it, but you very very often do and ime it's simpler designing with it from the start

[inner zealot]

Sounds like I'm redoing the fuel output to equal 400 exactly to make this more streamlined then.

[vapid gorge]

shorter manifolds are also more stable as a general rule

think of fluid systems like a jenga tower

there are moves that are more stable
there are moves that are less stable

enough less stable moves and it'll fall over

[inner zealot]

regarding loops, do you do that both at the generator and output? Because I see that's the refinery output?

[vapid gorge]

that's the input, only the inputs need the loops

you very often needs this past every step past fresh water and oil. Those inputs often don't need loops

[inner zealot]

speaking of which, should I loop heavy oil residue?

[vapid gorge]

I'd have ot see the set up. Very short manifolds often don't need it

But it'll never hurt to loop it

[fallow siren]

i ended up looping the oil because the extractor keep backlogging

[inner zealot]

this is the input section of the heavy oil residue,

[vapid gorge]

well you could loop your generators, flood the whoile system by down clocking the gens until full, then let it run and see? it might not. But my guess is that it probably will

you'll want ot flood your system anyway so it'll show you if there's a flow issue or not

[wooden jasper]

help help help help

I have 9 assemblers that make 100 iron plates p/m each

but I need to balance that into 10 assemblers to make reinforced plating

how in the world can this be done

do I just merge and then use smart splitters?

[inner zealot]

Assemblers producing ingots? Is this an alt recipie?

[wooden jasper]

yeah the alt with plastic

oh wait oops]

I used the alt with copper + iron ore to make the ingots and then the plastic + ingots recipe to make the plates

I meant to say I have 900 iron plates p/m

but I can't just make each assembler use 100 plates p/m because then each assembler will also use 277.7777778 screws p/m

I could just use the base recipe for reinforced plating but then I would have 27 assemblers 💀

I'd be out here making the most walmart-shaped wide factory of all time

[inner zealot]

First off, you really should try using a tool to help plot out the math for the factory, it'll greatly help with what you are attempting to accomplish as well.

[wooden jasper]

the math works out but I don't know how to distribute the load on belts

[vapid gorge]

planners also help with that by giving a useful visual

[inner zealot]

Ok, you have two main options, Manifold or load balancing

[wooden jasper]

OH WAIT I COULD USE AN INDUSTRIAL STORAGE

[vapid gorge]

... for what?

[wooden jasper]

the two outputs are basically like a splitter but with 960 output per minute

[vapid gorge]

ISC aren't event splitters

[wooden jasper]

so, then I could sort everything through there and branch it all out

[vapid gorge]

it'll basically just be a manifold until one side fills up

[wooden jasper]

if I use both outputs they can each have 480 moving out of each one

instead of my max of 480 total

[inner zealot]

storage container is just storage container, it wont really help with input / output in most cases.

[vapid gorge]

why not just merge what you need on each belt by merging specific machines?

much simpler and actually works

[inner zealot]

The only time I view them as helpful is for quicker train input/extraction? But even then it's iffy. (outside of storing things)

[wooden jasper]

well I have a hard job to do with splitting and merging otherwise

this would make the outputs balanced I think

[vapid gorge]

you have perfect control of it. Just clock things

[wooden jasper]

I can't without messing up a different input though

[vapid gorge]

if they are fed with manifolds it's dead simple

[wooden jasper]

if I wanted to make the number of plate assemblers and reinforced plate assemblers the same it would take more steel beams, which I don't have the production for atm

[vapid gorge]

see? Black is the first step, then you clock the outputs and group them as needed on teh red belts

[wooden jasper]

it's 9 into 10 though 😦

[vapid gorge]

So. Clock. Them.

You have *perfect control.

any case you do you, gl with it

[wooden jasper]

[vapid gorge]

Like if you want to give me the numbers are in both steps I can take you through it if you want? do a little diagram?

[wooden jasper]

I started to divide it out but I was like 1 foundation too narrow with the build

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[vapid gorge]

I'd need numbers

did you make a plan in satsifactory tools?

[wooden jasper]

left side outputs 900 plates p/m with 9 assemblers and right side uses 900 plates p/m with 10 assemblers

[wooden jasper]

no I use instinct alone

[vapid gorge]

clock 9 assembers to 110% and feed them 1 to 1

[wooden jasper]

I would need an extra 90 screws p/m and that would make the screw production weird

[vapid gorge]

? it would use the same amount of parts just with 1 fewer machines

[inner zealot]

Yeah, he's just cutting out 1 assembler? Nothing else changes?

[wooden jasper]

this setup also needs 250 screws p/m at each assembler and it would be simplest if each constructor could output just the screws it needs for one assembler

[vapid gorge]

ok, have 10 assembers make the plates

[wooden jasper]

otherwise I'd need to slug every constructor

[vapid gorge]

under clock those to 90%

[wooden jasper]

😦

[vapid gorge]

I'm giving you the simplest options here

[inner zealot]

this is why you plan things out before building things.