math-and-meta

[glossy wagon]

I just went heavy on it and have a smart spliiter filling 2 industrial containers with packaged nitrogen and then the empty containers gets loaded on the train to go back to the nitrogen factory for packaging again... the containers hold some ridiculous number more being packed so it doesn't take a ton

Does anyone have a picture of how they do their manifolds for refiners for refineries.. specifically pipes? do you guys do ground level or have it above belt level

[wary rapids]

how best to find what locations are within 3 min by train

[cyan heath]

I just completed the 2nd phase of the space elevator, what milestone should I invest in first?

[wet python]

i went for fuel and jetpack

[cyan heath]

Yeah I thought I should do fuel too.

[wet python]

then left for a world trip

[amber umbra]

I wouldn’t try to calculate the amount of packages. Just add empty packages until you’re a bit below the deadlock amount of packages for the loop.

I assume you’re using drones?

[violet halo]

A pack and unpack loop sounds like a train to me.

[signal musk]

Is it possible to split 2 lines of 780 into 3 lines of at least 450? I only have up to mk 5 belts and don't care if the lines have extra as long as there are 3 with at least 450

[amber umbra]

450 * 3 =1,350 vs 780 * 2 =1,560

So, yes, it is viable. I assume a pretty basic 2 to 3 balancer from a google search should do it since you don’t have other stipulations.

And a simpler 2 splitters then 1 merger should also do it using manifold concepts.

[prisma kraken]

there's no really good way - it is highly dependent upon where your rails run. 3 minute round trip isn't a lot to work with though. loading & unloading eat 55 seconds of the trip time, so distance is very limited (probably are looking at about a half a biome's worth of range)

[robust raptor]

I'd actually say a bit more than that, probably a full biome max if you don't use path signals and too many elevation changes

But yeah, 3 minutes isn't a whole lot

But you probably don't need a round trip travel time of 3 minutes unless you're either using a really short train and/or need high throughput out of a small number of train platforms

[wary rapids]

the alumium smeltor is finnaly operation at 100 percent off full design.

[robust raptor]

#math-and-meta message

Here's a graph showing an estimate of the max throughput you can get with a given distance

[robust raptor]

For practical throughput, take anywhere from half to ~80-90% of that depending on how crowded your train network is, how many elevation changes you have, how many turns you have, etc.

[wary rapids]

belt sandwich

[knotty siren]

Is there a key or something to remove an entire blueprint?

OH

Google'd it: Press R while holding the dismantle tool, okay lol

[vast mist]

just found out factory carts can do everything trucks can do and don't require fuel

I've set up 30 of them on the same route to bring coal for my battery factory and it seems to be working

sure I could use a real vehicle, but this is funnier

[knotty siren]

That's funny

[knotty siren]

Funnier and cuter

[unborn ermine]

I got bored and decided to see if I can get depot and slooping before I get anything setup...
only needing wire + more SAM
havent built anything powered yet, just running around.
already have nobelisks after a few hours and just way too many things

[unborn ermine]

Infrastructure can wait for progress

[magic dock]

Couldn't be bothered to do the math myself for a balancer so asked chatgpt if a certain split was possible, result: 210 + 210 = 330

Great success

[outer vale]

I tried using an LLM to tell me how many iron plates I could get from 60 iron ore and how many smelters and constructors it'd need, couldn't get that right either

not surprised given their tendency to make stuff up, but still funny

[wind spade]

chatgpt is not a calculator, it's a word generator

and balancers are not really needed

[magic dock]

Yeah obviously but its generally good enough for basic math that is formulated as a question

[wind spade]

a calculator is good for that 🙂

[magic dock]

Can't put a question into a calculator

[wind spade]

can put a question here

[magic dock]

True true

But the split is not possible anyway so smart splitter it is

[outer vale]

all splits are possible if you're mad enough

[wind spade]

or just... don't balance and have two separate lines 😄

[magic dock]

Generally I do that but I need some iron for both the crystal oscillators and sam fluctuators

And their input is not equal

[wind spade]

ask your question 🙂

[magic dock]

Am using the pure Iron node in the rocky desert next to the coal nodes that needs to supply 630 total, 330 for the Crystal Oscillators and 300 for the SAM Fluctuators. I like balancers for some reason so tried that first but thats not easily possible as you end up with 11/21 as a fraction. I would just put a smart splitter with overflow to the fluctuators as that is kinda temporary or is there a better solution?

[wind spade]

manifold

[magic dock]

How do you exactly mean? Just a normal splitter then

Or a manifold for all iron for both and then split?

[wind spade]

one line that feeds both

--S--S--S--S-...-S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |     |  |  |  |
  A  A  A  A     B  B  B  B

[magic dock]

Ah like that

Hmm never thought to do it that way but I'll give it a try, also a possibility to try some new designs for belt supports

Thanks

[thorn bane]

Steps:

Set Up the Splitter:
    Place a splitter on the 630 IPM conveyor.
    This will split the input into three equal parts, each carrying 210 IPM if all three outputs are used.

Route the Outputs:
    Take two of the splitter's outputs (each carrying 210 IPM) and merge them using a merger. This creates a single conveyor carrying 420 IPM.
    The third output from the splitter remains as 210 IPM.

Handle the 420 IPM Line:
    Place another splitter on the 420 IPM conveyor.
    Split this into two parts:
        One output of 300 IPM.
        The remaining 120 IPM goes to the second output.

Combine the Remaining 210 IPM and 120 IPM:
    Merge the remaining 210 IPM (from Step 2) with the 120 IPM (from Step 3).
    This creates a conveyor carrying 330 IPM.

works for me 🤷
it probably means to use a mk2 to limit the 420 to 120 and 300

it also made a visual but thats a bit confusing xd

[wind spade]

ah yeah

[thorn bane]

also the 210 not connected xD

oh actually i think its doing the 420 to 300 120 split by having the 300 line back up
interesting

[wind spade]

I think it just doesn't know what it is doing

[past reef]

that 120-300 split seems to be made with smart splitter but it doesn't show hmm

I would any on the mk2 120 line instead but yeah

[vapid gorge]

1xmk1 + 1xmk3 belt also add up to 330. no need for all that

[thorn bane]

oh true

[vast jungle]

Setting up a single Pure Oil node for Rubber production and put shards in it... minutes
Building a factory that takes 360 Oil/min for Rubber... hours...
Searching for a pipe bug because upper floors don't get the oil... more hours...
Discovering you forgot to set the OC of the Oil node to 250%... priceless 😄

[hard meadow]

"More hours" the most painful phrase

[vast jungle]

it took more time to check the pipes than to find that one of the belt-lifts in the BP was going the wrong direction... still, my "much too large, don't need it" plastic/rubber factory is finally awake

and I still have 50% reserves if I want to extend it more without tapping new oil nodes

[steel knot]

Is this packaged water/diluted fuel loop a bug? Or am I missing some math trick here

[vast jungle]

no, this looks fine

[steel knot]

But why is it packaging just to unpackage if the containers persist

[vast jungle]

think about it this way... one DPF Refinery, one Packager(Water) and one Unpackager(Fuel) takes in HOR and water and spits out Fuel... Containers just run in circles

The Refinery has only one liquid input... but HOR and Water are liquids

[steel knot]

Ahh I see. Instead of using a blender?

[vast jungle]

Refinery = Tier 5/6... Blender = Tier 7/8 (and was only introduced in Update 4 or 5)

[steel knot]

Got it

I never really thought about the packaged diluted fuel recipe

[vast jungle]

the pain was worth the effort I think...

1080 plastic/min and 1080 rubber/min

[steel knot]

So I just prime the loop with the empties and then walk away

I didn’t know it took building tier into account. Anyhow since Ive got them the blenders save a tiny bit of energy

[north mauve]

Cool looking pair of buildings

[charred saffron]

Yeah if you already have blenders and the straightforward alt recipe you might as well, but packaged is great if you get in T5/T6 because it still gives access to diluted fuel, the cannisters are hardly an issue tbh

[vast jungle]

Thank you... First factory where I made the hull before the internals 😀

[north mauve]

Oooh brave

It's really too bad we don't get half walls or similar fractions. I want to be able to place windows inset on a diagonal without clipping.

[vast jungle]

It's nice to see what you CAN do, but it's still limited unless you use mods

[wind spade]

I recommend making the loop 1:1:1, putting it into a blueprint with saved 20 canisters in one of the machines, then you can use that BP as sort-of blender 😄

[north mauve]

How many diamonds is a lot

[steel knot]

Love it

[wind spade]

1

[vast jungle]

Diamonds are like nuclear pasta 😉

[vast mist]

what diamond recipe's your favorite?

[vast jungle]

I like oil based diamonds... Very easy for a first setup

[vast mist]

I'm still on phase 4, but I was eying the petroleum coke recipe

[vast jungle]

But it took a few hours to get the Alt recipe

[vast mist]

I've got like 20 scanned drives waiting to reroll (and then I reload my save if I'm not happy with the outcome)

[north mauve]

I only left 2-4 drives on the map

[past reef]

oil diamond is super convenient, turbo is pretty good on resource, pink is okay all around

[north mauve]

I wasn't sure if I should wait until I have the other tier 9 milestone so that my drives can look for more than just diamonds

Coke and oil both looked good but the basic coal one also looks fine. I have a looooot of unused pure coal nodes lying around

[vast mist]

you can always save, reroll a drive, and get something from any tier you have currently unlocked (and then load your save if you get automated miner and compacted steel again)

[north mauve]

Auto miners are sweet

[vast mist]

they're okay

[north mauve]

Do you know how many I built in hand, angrily

[vast mist]

my solution is to just hit space and take 5 minutes off

I just leave my room, and when I come back, miners for days

[north mauve]

I spent less time making the miner depot

[past reef]

there are like 90k iron in the map just use like 100 to do automated miner

[north mauve]

I used one node, bare minimum buildings. Don't even need storage because the DD buffer should be more than enough

[vast mist]

it's not the resources that bother me, it's the waste of a hard drive while I'm hunting for something more valuable like the rocket fuel alt

[north mauve]

Sounds like you need more drives

[vast mist]

don't I always

[north mauve]

The scanner makes it easy. Jetpack + scanner = achievement

[vast mist]

I wonder how many I've collected so far
gotta be at least 50

[wind spade]

no hard drive is a waste, there's more drives than alts anyway (and worst case you can buy a drive)

[vast mist]

you can buy a drive??

[north mauve]

Besides the two coals, biocoal and whatever

[wind spade]

they are fine

[north mauve]

100 coupons, pretty steep in my opinion

[vast mist]

oh that is a lot

anyway it was just an example of a recipe I keep getting and keep not wanting in favor of other things; no hate towards it

[past reef]

potential recipe depends on your milestone

like you can never get rocket fuel before unlocking nitric acid

[north mauve]

You can get the alt for rocket fuel before you can make the regular RF

[vast mist]

I did unlock rocket fuel before nitric acid

[north mauve]

I save-scummed like a mother also got it early

[vast mist]

this. I had to reroll so many times

[past reef]

I thought the well research == nitric acid might have misremembered

[north mauve]

I spent ~2.5hrs just reloading my save

[past reef]

point is when you keep seeing the coal recipe it's probably best to grab more milestone research

[vast mist]

oh jeez you must've gotten really unlucky

[north mauve]

I had seven drives I was rerolling too. Meanwhile I got all the fancy alts for the heavy encased frames and diluted plastic/rubber easily

[vast mist]

it helps to have more drives scanned just so that those recipes don't show up

[north mauve]

I had and still have a lot sitting there blocking stuff I don't care about

[vast jungle]

Or just scan HDs without selecting until you cannot get new results anymore

[vast mist]

that could take a while; it's gotten to the point where if I hypertube cannon in a random direction holding my scanner, I don't immediately find a new hard drive

those were the days

[north mauve]

Scanner works on a radius so if you're too high up, you won't ping

A lot are hidden at the bottom of very vertical areas

[vast mist]

I try to stay close enough to the ground, just cruising at mach speed on liquid biofuel

but yeah I just mean the easy ones are gone, I can still find drives but it takes a lot more time and effort

[north mauve]

There are 118 Crash Sites, which means a total of 118 Hard Drives can be obtained. Four Hard Drives can be used to unlock alternate recipes via MAM research trees (as opposed to scanning the drives). Scanning the drives will provide a total of 106 recipes plus two opportunities for pioneer inventory expansions. However, because the Quartz Purification scan also unlocks Distilled Silica, and the Polyester Fabric alternate does not require a Hard Drive to research, only 106 Hard Drives are actually scanned for recipes. This leaves 5 Hard Drives unused.
Oh, neat. That means I already have all I need

[steel knot]

This gave me an idea for some of my ad hoc semiautomatic stuff like iodine filters. I have production machines with sloops and shards loaded but if I preload the items and drop the BP I save a few steps in terms of dragging from my Mercer space into the machine. So now I have a preloaded iodine manufacturer slooped and ready to go rather than spoon feeding it

Iodine filter automation is one level too complex and one level too niche for me to do it

[north mauve]

I spent 80hrs working in a radioactive hell hole and probably burnt through 600 filters.

I still have not fully automated them. I have to hybertube in and fill two storage boxes by hand from the DD.

[grave prism]

So question, if i have a lot of miners going into my factory should i throw load balancers to tie them all up into a single input belt or should i leave them all split and just crank output?

[north mauve]

Balancing is dum

[brisk smelt]

each input belt of raw resources should be running at max capacity already?

there is no possible way to split miner belts

[vast jungle]

do you even have a belt fast enough for the resources?

[brisk smelt]

the maximum node output is always MOE to the maximum unlocked belt capcity iirc

or like close enough

just split into whatever capacity belts you have and a remainder belt

via osplitter

[steel knot]

Sorry what’s MOE?

I think I get the context but just checking

[north mauve]

Cute anime girls

[grave prism]

I got mk3 and can get mk4 belts just gotta unlock it

Osplitter?

[wind spade]

if you have X/min on a belt, connect it to machines that need X/min
don't need to load balance or anything

[grave prism]

Okay so for example my coal power plant uses 720/min so i run 3 miners with mk3 belts at 240/min into it?

[ornate grail]

3 power shards + a sloop = 5 times the output right?

[north mauve]

You'll need to run three separate belts if mk3 is the highest you have

[grave prism]

Yeah, i can unlock t4 belts now but honestly dont got a use for it except maybe merging more stuff in there? Kinda went on a rush for trains as i saw tractors not being useful if i gotta laydown everything and get gas on top of that.

[wind spade]

yeah but 2.5 times the input

tractors are useful

they run on the ground and can burn practically anything

[north mauve]

"don't got a use for it" ???? You definitely want mk4 belts asap

[vast mist]

tractors are surprisingly versatile and fuel is surprisingly easy to get (since they're happy to burn anything)

[charred saffron]

Tractors are great, they can get a little wonked out by natural terrain but it's not that bad if you drive the recording carefully

And fuel is automatable, a stack of coal works for most cases where you'd want a tractor or truck instead of a belt or trains

Later on just using some packaged fuel works great too for longer distances/fuel efficiency, but I've rarely needed better than a stack of coal on automated routes

(maybe also bc I'm a fan of trains, but I use tractors a fair bit too)

[ornate grail]

Perfect thank you!

[vast mist]

also a lot more power

a fully overclocked and fully slooped manufacturer uses like 700 MW

[ornate grail]

I’m doing a short video on monstructors so I want to make sure the math was right. Don’t want to spread misinformation haha

[charred saffron]

I'm not bothered to find the specific overclocking power formula (I'm not sure on which page it is in the wiki) but it's not entirely linear. Slooping is exactly 2x the power requirement I believe

[ornate grail]

Yeah, the power increases are a bit wonky I think

It’s not linear right?

[charred saffron]

It's a weird formula, yeah, and it's not linear

I think it's just on the overclocking page but I'm not sure

[grave prism]

Let me rephrase that Xd i dont got anything needing that high speed yet. However i plan on redoing all my lines again cuz i dont need that much overflow of the starting mats anymore? And i want to add the dyson sphere storage thingy at the end instead of just a storage

[north mauve]

That you need to break up your current coal plant into three belts implies you definitely need the new belt which would allow you to only break it up into two

[charred saffron]

For energy usage

For item to energy efficiency (relative)

[north mauve]

"dyson sphere storage" ??? The dimensional depot? Those are great, but it's still best to combine them with a regular storage.

[vast mist]

I just slap one on top of every industrial storage with commonly used items
plates, cables, beams, etc
things you don't want to run out of on the go

[grave prism]

Couldnt remember the name but yeah

[grave prism]

Fair point

[vast jungle]

I am confused by a pump in my Blueprints (MK3, 48m high)... the Headlift value for the pump transfering oil between two stacks of the BP is fluctuating... and it reaching more than 50m.
Any idea how this can happen with two absolutely identical BPs stacked?

[vast mist]

are you using pipe floor holes? I've heard a pipe floor hole counts as 4m, even when the floor is only 1m

[vast jungle]

wall holes yes, floor holes? not in this BP I think

this is one of the pumps... another one is directly 48m above, the upper pipe wall-hole to the left goes straight up and comes into the lower pipe wall-hole in the BP above

[vast jungle]

interesting... I blocked the output of the factories to make them stop... and the headlift stabilized to 53 meters!

I have no clue how the game comes to this conclusion

I will try to change the BP to contain two pumps and see if it helps

[heavy wind]

hey, can someone tell me why my Aluminum produktion is inefficient? I'm producing 886 scrap and the refineries are all at 100% efficiency. I have 10 foundrys that need 88.6 scrap each. I'm manafolding all 10 foundrys with 1 mk6 belt. But why are 2 of my 10 foundrys at 93% efficiency and 2 at 46. If I produce 886 scrap and need 886 scrap. System isn't filling up and stays like that for 20 min already

[outer vale]

have you prefilled the foundries? If not, it'll take a while for the manifold to balance out, given the stack size of scrap

[heavy wind]

haven't prefilled. but the foundrys dont fill further. 6 of them are full and the next one isn't filling up

[outer vale]

are the refineries actually emptying fully? Might be a belt speed limitation somewhere

[plain fossil]

battery factory only a mother could love (im the mother)

[outer vale]

mk5 belts only do 780/min

[plain fossil]

only?

[outer vale]

only

[heavy wind]

the stack in the 7th stays at 5 - 10 scrap for already 20 min.

[plain fossil]

thats pretty much all i need in phase 4

[outer vale]

so 886 scrap isn't gonna fit a 780 belt

[plain fossil]

my alumina factories arent overflowing with water?

unreal

[heavy wind]

they empty all. i first used a mk5 belt belt because of skill issue. but upgradet now to mk6

and refinerys are all at 100% efficiency. I have 4 that produce 221.6 each

found the problem. some scrap went into my overflow system. why does that happen, if my foundrys aren't filled with scrap?

[outer vale]

surely that's entirely dependent on how said overflow is set up

[heavy wind]

looks like its a belt problem. if i dont set the splitter on overflow. refinerys are filling up. but i used mk6 belt everywhere

[cinder silo]

I wasn't aware of that but due to how floor holes change for a foundation, it does make sense.

[vast jungle]

just ended up splitting the upward pipe in my plastic/rubber factory BP into two sections with their own MK2 pump... and now the liquids are behaving as they should... so even if BPs are less than 50m high, better don't use a single MK2 pump for getting stuff up... it sometimes wont work

[valid sail]

I had the same issue, only realised when the last two floors of the factory were operating at 50% efficiency. I decided to add a pipe on the side going all the way and feeding the system from the top. That solved the issue

[hollow plank]

nah, ive been playing for years and havent beat the game yet, so i was like wth, when i saw the size cuz im used to automating at least like 60 ipm (for rlly difficult ones maybe like 30 ipm) so i was expecting a massive factory for a particle accelerator. rn im working on a max uranium plant for power, i guess im overkilling then

[hollow plank]

new meta, they are better than trains cuz u dont need to power them

[steel knot]

Is there any way to prime a slooped constructor on a blueprint so that it doesn’t burn the first item at 1x?

[hollow plank]

no, it does that even off of a blueprint

[warm bane]

Just select any other random recipe, have it burn the first round, then swap to the correct recipe (which will have the x2 properly applied)

I don't think there's enough sloops in the game to make blueprints using it worth it

[thorn bane]

anyone have a list of all the materials needed to get all inventory expansions?

[wind spade]

wiki?

[versed violet]

Dear FicsIt.
I have located one of the other pioneers that have been deployed in my region.
I must regretfully inform the pioneer is not responding to any inputs, neither regular or forced. I have to assume they will not be able to perform their duties anymore.
The area is full of vile beast that I suspect may be responsible for the situation.
Relevant equipment has been collected, to be returned to the hub.
Awaiting further instructions regarding reassignment of exploration quotas.
Relevant photo documentation attached.

[versed violet]

WTH is this, an alpha hatcher?

[unborn ermine]

They take 5 smacks instead of 3 with a basher.

[warm bane]

Protip : if you crouch before entering the range they start spawning the flies, they don't react to you... even if you start jumping and hitting them
You can even fly using the jetpack, as long as the crouch button is pressed they will not react to you in any way

[vast mist]

oh I didn't know you could crouch fly, that would've been good to know earlier

[unborn ermine]

Yeah surprisingly you can crouch in air and you actually crouch to fit into smaller areas, kind of like the really old half-life tech they teach you to get into wall vents.

you dont see it very often

[versed violet]

Is there a workaround for this clearance issue? Can build them other way around (storage on top of dd), but cant build a dd below storage box.

[unborn dome]

Omg the crouch-jump

[hard meadow]

One time I used that to slide into one of those holes that you need a noblisk for but I didnt have any. I got stuck and lost all my stuff🫠

[hard meadow]

Exactly

[vapid gorge]

btw you can set it so you keep your stuff on respawn

[hard meadow]

Ik

But I didnt know that then

[topaz hedge]

I made tier 3 coal powerplants with nuclear..

[vast mist]

huh

[vapid gorge]

ignore buffer rates. Tbh, ignore buffers

in almost every situation

[vast mist]

I thought it'd be nice to put one between my fuel factory and the generators that use it, to give me some grace time if something goes wrong with the production

[vapid gorge]

it won't benefit you and could wreck the flow

[vast mist]

the buffer finished filling up so I guess if you say it's bad to have one, I'll disconnect it and just leave it there for emergencies

(don't need the space it takes for anything else)

though, connecting just the buffer and nothing else to the generators, it doesn't seem to actually drain

what's the point of these things again?

[topaz hedge]

well.. I used buffers for my late game powerplant because the water it needs is equal to the water it produces.

[vague ibex]

Did they nerf packaged diluted fuel

Because now once more diluted fuel in the blender is the most optimal recipe due to the fact that all recipes produce the exact same amount of fuel, with diluted having the best potential for plastic/rubber production

OR you could use the heavy oil residue alternate instead of resin, which will net more fuel overall thus producing more fuel than just making it from raw oil, but then the blender is still the best option due to no wasted plastic

[robust raptor]

The blender is unlocked later so it makes sense

The blender recipe consumes marginally more power than the packager recipe which isn't significant in a playthrough

[vague ibex]

Yes, and it leaves you with more resin

[robust raptor]

Not really?

With the packager recipe you're looping the packages anyway

[vast mist]

as far as I can tell the recipes are identical in terms of input and output

[vague ibex]

Not anymore

[robust raptor]

???

[vague ibex]

They nerfed it

[robust raptor]

You're neutral on packages

[vague ibex]

Wait no I'm stupid ignore me

It leaves you with empty canisters, which is only useful in certain factory setups. Most often it'd be preferable to have resin byproduct over canister byproduct

[robust raptor]

Just loop the canisters

[vague ibex]

I swear at the beginning of 1.0 launch it produced more fuel than blender

[vast mist]

you don't produce the cannisters, you just take them from one machine into the next in a loop

[robust raptor]

Afaik it's always been the same

[vague ibex]

True, although I feel weird doing loops (I know that later on there's quantum stuff that requires loops)

[vast mist]

you're gonna be doing a lot of loops, and this one's relatively simple

[topaz hedge]

loops...

I thought the diluted packager recipe used less power but other than that they were the same ratio of hor -> fuel

[vast mist]

they're the exact same; you'd only ever use the packaged one because you don't have the other one unlocked yet imo

[young flame]

is this a software

if so what is it

[unborn ermine]

Satisfactory Tools in the pins

[wet palm]

question regarding train signals -- is there a way to make a track be omnidirectional with an entrance on each side as well as an exit on each side? i cant get the signalling to behave

like this.

[unborn ermine]

iirc it was paths leading into the bidirectional merge area, blocks leading out and inbetween.

paths show no entry symbol, but they work so long as there is no error.
messed with me when I started messing with them

but, I will say that would be way easier as a 2 rail setup.

[wet palm]

ok i did path leading in before merge area on both ends and then block leading out on both ends. doesnt work

like 3 out of the 4 are error status

[river night]

you dont need paths for that, blocks would work just fine as long as the shared area is a single block

if the shared area is long enough to want to subdivide it, paths may help

[unborn ermine]

Oh yeah I might be thinking of a crossed rail situation

been doing too many double rails.

[river night]

it should essentially just need a block signal in both directions on the spot where the rails merge

[wet palm]

like this correct?

[river night]

just make sure to have it both on left and right to control trains in both directions, and i think that should be it?

[wet palm]

so like this

problem with this though is that the trains will now stop in the "Y" merge area and cause collision

[vast jungle]

I would put the signals for the "two-way track" behind the switches (more to the left and more to the right)

(if you really need a two-way track)

[wet palm]

i cant move them more to the left or more to the right without moving onto one the entrances/exits

[vast jungle]

I am looking at the Fused Modular Frame recipes... The Heat-Fused frame seems to be really bad... or maybe I am overlooking something? It seems to save a little bit Aluminium, but it needs more Nitrogen and it needs Fuel.

[vast jungle]

the problem is that the switch-blocks will still be two-way blocks if you keep it this way

[wet palm]

what is the way you are suggesting

[vast jungle]

move the two block signals on the left to the LEFT of the switch... same with the one on the right... this terminates the two-way block directly behind the switch,. instead of extending it potentially along the rail

you can place them as close to the switch as you can, just on the "other side" 😉

this also separates the two one-way tracks from each other

[wet palm]

this is the left side of my doodle. i cannot move these any more to the left whithout forcing me to place them onto one of the entrance/exits

[vast jungle]

thats exactly where they belong in my opinion

[wet palm]

sure, but then the train will now stop here causing collision from the train occupying the block

[vast jungle]

you could add a path-signal for the track leaving the two-way track

maybe like this?

not sure the path signal will be necessary

you won't get colisions anyways... as long as the train has not left the two-way block, no other train will enter

[wet palm]

i just need the trains to be parked on their 'leg' of the "Y" not in the "Y" ...

[vast jungle]

then just make every signal going into the "double-Y" a path signal... that should only allow a train to enter if it also can leave

in the end, two-way tracks are normally not worth the time and complexity

[wet palm]

yup the path signal way you suggested does not work. errors everywhere.

yeah i honestly think this is impossible

[vast jungle]

the error will be a different reason I think

[unborn ermine]

Its one of those "choice" recipes
like where you have a surplus of fuel and want to squeeze out a limited amount of aluminum.

[vast jungle]

AND you have too much Nitrogen...

[unborn ermine]

see, even with alclad casings it still saves a tiny bit

[vast jungle]

seems to be VERY nieche 😉

[unborn ermine]

Yep

Its why I wanted to use it, at least because I was planning to have a lot of nitric acid being made and the excess be used for one thing later.
as well as more fuel dedicated to this and maybe some other late game stuff.

[wind spade]

You always have too much nitrogen

[thorn bane]

75 instead of 100 alu is alot
its lile 1000 WR alu save for 350 WR nitrogen

[vast jungle]

interesting... I finally had a BP that I could not build from the DD alone for the first time 😄

[unborn ermine]

Little fun fact for anyone who ever wants to game the system by exploring and never harvest plants.
using materials from the map + a little bit of mining for SAM + 26 dead aliens (and only 18 protein converted)
3600 Biomass is what you can make via slooping if you only use 4 Solid Biofuel in your hub burners if you underclock+sloop for standard power consumption per step.

This is using the Solid Biofuel from drop pods as well.

still have 70 more to burn for turning that into more Biofuel.

(yes I got bored and wanted to test )

[paper pewter]

shit is about to get real, is there any particular problems in this scheme I havent fixed?

[vapid gorge]

honestly not a heck of a lot. You need them for fluid trains, but that's about it, every other place people use them tends to be in far less reliable fluid set ups than non buffer situations.

[vapid gorge]

saves you about 33% alum iirc for a bit of oil and gas, both of which you tend to have lots of

[vapid gorge]

no idea, images from that 'tool' are horrible to read

like absolutely the worst

[paper pewter]

dont really get the point whats so bad about them but ok

[vapid gorge]

no words, images of buildings that are small, hard to see what is being made where

[wind spade]

you don't know what recipes are you using

[paper pewter]

oh, ok

[vapid gorge]

and the actual use of the tool is the clunkiest thing I've ever seen, having to manual craft each box

easily ranks at the bottom for utility

[paper pewter]

Idk I just like to do it from the end

[vapid gorge]

I dislike the SCIM planner but it's head and shoulders better

[vapid gorge]

every tool I've seen you can plug in an end product and get it folding out back

[vapid gorge]

took literally 2 seconds https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=TJuu7UEzxlx732y7yODy

[paper pewter]

also true, ok Im gonna remake the one I have rn

[warm bane]

I use this tool, but not to plan a production chain : to plan how I'm going to subdivide massive builds I obtain in Satisfactorytool. Since for that I do want to manually organize things

Unrelated, I've seen people say that the plutonium fuel unit alternate is a trap, why is that ?

[vapid gorge]

make tabs in sftools to break down bigger plans into smaller ones

[vapid gorge]

likely because it's much more expensive in pm resources and you often don't want more P rods

but if you want more P rods it's a great recipe

like basically all alt recipes, it's good at the job it does. Just depends if you want that job

[warm bane]

I dunno, I really like going from this to these to plan my layouts and stay organized

[wind spade]

that third image is anything but organised for me

[vapid gorge]

eh that's essentially what tools does when you break down smaller plans

if you need to break down belts and items pm quick notes on a spread sheet is much faster

good for when you need to plan at the machine/belt scale

part of break downs

[warm bane]

I don't know why but sometimes tools reset its input/production settings to some weird things so I don't like muliplying plans too much

[vapid gorge]

reset production settings?

if you make a new tab but want to keep the recipes you need to 'clone' tabs

otherwise it gives you a default page

that's the only thing I can think of

[warm bane]

No like, previously I had set it to produce 180 pm, using 1200 of smth
Next time I open the browser now it think I asked him to produce 1800 pm, using all of the map recipe

Or using a set of unrelated resources
It's weird

[vapid gorge]

that sounds like maybe you just made a typo, I've used it a BUNCH and never had that sort of thing
what do you think @wind spade ?

[warm bane]

I mean, I'm pretty sure I never tried making 1800 supercomputer/min, while asking him to use only iron and copper or smth
But when I opened my browser yesterday thats what I had

[wind spade]

I've had one bug report like 6 months back that in very rare situations in a single browser (and hard to replicate), changes in one tab could propagate to other tab for some reason. Bug was never found and eventually we assumed it was due to having the tool open in multiple browser tabs.

Other than that, I've never heard about this. Are you sure you're on the correct tab? Do you only use Tools in one browser tab at a time?

[wind spade]

maybe that's one of the imported production lines?

[vapid gorge]

sftools is greeny's tool btw

[warm bane]

Yes, however I have 2 pcs, and when I'm away from the gaming pc, sometimes I use the tools in the other pc.
I use firefox, and some things are synchronized between browser
But that would be very weird if that was the cause, since production lines are NOT synced (I have to manually share them when I want to transfer from one pc to another)

[warm bane]

No, all local lines

[wind spade]

yeah, for syncing you have to do manual work unfortunately

[unborn ermine]

Manual isnt "too" bad, just have say, a private discord server to drop links in or something.

[wind spade]

eh, just export/import with a file

[warm bane]

Oh, other idea : I have a setting that restore my tabs as they were when I open my browser.
Maybe that could mess things up if I closed the browser while on the tools

[wind spade]

not really, Tools just load the data from local storage

[unborn ermine]

links at least is the least effort, copy paste a link, vs actually downloading and moving files.

[wind spade]

well you use the same discord server to share a file 😛 and can do one file for all production lines, instead of going one by one with links

[grim valley]

What program/ website are you using in the 2-4 picture

[warm bane]

Ah, it just happened :

[unborn ermine]

Depends

[warm bane]

Closed/reopened the window with the tool in it
This chian definitely changed

There's all kind of wrong in there

[wind spade]

if you have time, I'd really like a way to reproduce this, if you can find it. Also which browser/OS are you using?

[warm bane]

Firefox (up to date, just checked) on Windows 11

[wind spade]

alright. Would be great if you could find a reproducible way to have this happen. May be a bug somewhere 🤔

[warm bane]

I'm going to try closing/opening a couple time, try things out
I'll ping you if I find something

[wind spade]

thanks

[warm bane]

Well that didn't take long
Now the supercomputer changed (used to be 5/min, using only caterium and everything else to 0 +plastic/rubber as input)
Closing/opening seem to do something

[paper pewter]

Is this better? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=NoVKvYK7sdXb39sM72JO

[warm bane]

Ok @wind spade , I found a reproducible behavior : if I'm in a line other than the 1st one, and I edit the desired amount for the n first items.
Then close the browser window while still in this line, and restore it from the the browser history, the 1st production line inherit the values set in the other line.

[wind spade]

restore it from the the browser history
I assume this is Ctrl+Shift+T (or whatever shortcut it is on firefox?)

[warm bane]

There might be a shortcut, I do it via the menu (history->recently closed window)

[outer vale]

bit hit or miss but I can also repro this, yeah ctrl-shift-t

[wind spade]

window or tab? or does it matter?

[warm bane]

I can try tabs too

[wind spade]

also firefox? also Win11?

[outer vale]

firefox, win10

[wind spade]

alr

gotta install firefox to try 😄

since it doesn't seem to be an issue on chrome

[outer vale]

it's definitely not doing it every time for me, though might not be doing the exact same thing each time

[fading talon]

is there a way to do motors with perfect ratio?

[paper pewter]

wdym perfect ratio

[fading talon]

like whole numbers with no waste or down time for machines

like this for example

[robust raptor]

You can underclock machines

[outer vale]

60/min uses all integer buildings, but yeah there's no need to do that when clocking is a thing

[robust raptor]

Makes the machine consume a fair bit less power

[paper pewter]

there sure is, for everything I assume https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ygpSQitxzhKERf3E5aoB

[outer vale]

4.667 smelter

[fading talon]

can you underclock to 33%?

[paper pewter]

so? just one underclocked smelter

[paper pewter]

dont remember

[outer vale]

33.3333% that'd be

[robust raptor]

You can underclock to a specific production rate I think

[outer vale]

but yes, you can underclock all the way down to 1% if needed

[paper pewter]

yes

[fading talon]

oh ok perfect, thank you

[vapid gorge]

much more legible. Just wanting an analysis?

[paper pewter]

In general, if you see like any way it can be improved, for example using a dif recipe, tweaking the output etc

[vapid gorge]

do yo uhave a location planned out for it yet? cause that's always v important

[paper pewter]

I do

[vapid gorge]

do you ahve to import much for that plan with that location?

[paper pewter]

in the upper part of the map more to the right, somewhere around here

[warm bane]

@wind spade
It also works for the raw resources and input
If I set things in a line other than the 1st one, then close the window (it works with tab instead of window too, but it's less reliable and trigger less, just checked) without going back to the 1st line, upon restore it overrides the corresponding values
Recipes and machines don't transfer over, and if fact the bug doesn't occur if I am on the machine/recipe screen

[paper pewter]

its mostly sulfur restrcted

2 pure nodes and my mk4 belts

[vapid gorge]

yeah it doesn't really lend itself to the computer and HSC you have on the plan

[paper pewter]

I mean, I was starting to plan according to them, and the power plant is the byproduct

[vapid gorge]

really? seems a bit odd since all the local resources are great for the power plant 😄

do you have a ton of alt recipes available?

[paper pewter]

yeah, I wasnt looking for power in the 1st place lol

[paper pewter]

a fair hard drive grind is not a problem for me

and I mostly have all the ones Ive used

[vapid gorge]

do you have blenders available?

[paper pewter]

no

what tier are they?

[vapid gorge]

ok so the MAIN coal is the HSC and computers right?

[vapid gorge]

7 I think?

[paper pewter]

yes

[vapid gorge]

one sec

[paper pewter]

yeah 6 is the last one for me atm, Im gonna get to space elevator parts after this factory

[warm bane]

You could do oil-less computers
It's only iron, copper, quartz and caterium

SFTools bug experimentations

[vapid gorge]

so an idea that gets rid of the power plant https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=P6p7UUkhlyVgavq6sJnD

and you could move it a bit further south and it has both oil and caterium nearby

make an independent power station somewhere else

similar general location very little resources needed moved around

[paper pewter]

awesome idea, thanks!

[vapid gorge]

no stress, around here is where I was thinking

[vapid gorge]

also I don't have the whole area memorised so if there's copper or iron nearby you could use that to make wire and stretch out the caterium if you want ot make more computer parts

Iron wire
fused quickwire, things like that

[paper pewter]

yeah makes sense

[vapid gorge]

this set of recipes is pretty caterium hungry so stretching it out if you need more parts is a good idea 🙂 could probably make quite a bit more in that location

[paper pewter]

I have a pretty good wire and quickwire production already so I think Im gonna leave it as it is

[vapid gorge]

oh and if you want to do turbo fuel one the base recipe I think is more resource efficient but more steps

[paper pewter]

Ill see how much o a resource overflow Im gonna be getting

[vapid gorge]

more bang for your buck

depends if you want to put in more time in one spot I guess

[paper pewter]

I see, alr, thanks a lot once again, Im gonna get to it later on today prob or tomorrow!

[sage wing]

is it worth to build oil generator or just rely on coal generators mid tier?

[vernal swallow]

Im mid tier rn, so not that experienced, but as far as it’s going for me I just use oil generators for the BP from producing plastic and rubber etc to make Energie

[past reef]

you want some fuel generator as you expand and make more refineries since power drain of refinery is comparable to an entire coal generator

though ppl usually get some coke power initially and do diluted packaged fuel setup for first power plant with fuel generator

[sage wing]

diluted packaged fuel? is that alt recipe for packaged fuel or diff fuel alltogether?

[past reef]

yeah that alt makes packaged fuel, combined with heavy oil residue alt gives you much more mileage on fuel generation

[sage wing]

ahh...i dont have that yet lol

[past reef]

it's like the earliest permanent-ish power setup (since you can max generator pretty close after) so some people wait out for it

though I recommend make as much as you need, the random heavy oil from basic recipe can just be turned into coke to offset the refineries

[sage wing]

how about turbo fuel? i'm about to unlock it now, is it worth using it instead of just normal fuel

[past reef]

yeah but turbofuel needs fuel which can benefit from that diluted packaged fuel setup anyways

[sage wing]

ah...and lastly i just realized i have fuel alt recipe : fuel + polymer resin. should i use this and use the resin for plastic/rubber or would that just consume too much power cause it needs additional building (water extractor)

not sure how the math works with this one tho lol

[past reef]

polymer resin alt (oil -> more resin less heavy oil)? it's a bit more resource per oil a bit more power compared to just making rubber plastic directly*, not a huge jump

[sage wing]

nah, fuel alt recipe (crude oil 60m3 > 40per min fuel* + 30 resin)

[past reef]

oh that's a basic recipe, fuel will probably go into a generator so that's much more power compared to making plastic rubber directly, but you can't make much per node, fine for research/building use though

like a normal well 300 oil pm get you 30 of each rubber plastic pm

[sage wing]

oh mb...it was part of normal recipe...i thought it was alt for asec lol

ima stick to the residual fuel>fuel for now and see how it goes

[north mauve]

Heyo, I just reached phase 5. How much of the new base mats do I really need? Time crystals and the trigons. Are they the kind of item I want to add to each new factory, like I do with any simple resource (and these seem painfully simple so far??), or is it something more annoying like plastic and rubber were where it made sense to have a large factory dedicated to them, and then train ship them around the world?

I'm not a mega baser or a single hub baser, but an outpost builder. I generally pick a target (one space elevator part) and plan a factory from the ground up, only grabbing from the train network if it seriously simplifies some aspects. ECRs, COs, RCUs, etc are the kind of things I am likely to import rather than build locally.

So where do time crystals and trigons fall there? More comparable to basic boring steel beams? Or more annoying like plastic/rubber?

[wind spade]

I'd personally just make whatever you need now and not worry about future

[north mauve]

I'm more of an aesthetics person and I want to build a pretty building, but I need to know numbers before I choose a design

[wind spade]

yeah, the numbers are "what you need now" 🙂

[warm bane]

From what I've seen so far Time diamond you can make them on site for each facility, they are pretty basic
Their main constraint is not complexity but logistic
There's tons of alt for diamonds, but you still need a loooooot of raw input per minute

On the other hand since the compression ratio is so insanely high, it's a fairly nice use case for drones, since you can setup the rest of the factory near what you need for the rest of the chain, and then find the closest node(s) of coal/oil/whatever you need for the alt you chose, plop down the setup and then just send it over

[north mauve]

As a note, the game seems afraid of scale? mk6 logistics milestone wants 10k iron plates and 5k alclad. A train platform holds that. And anyone using trains to deliver items often ends up with two full platforms of an item. Mildly disappointing that this game basically has zero grind after getting off biomass.

By the time I was putting phase 4's 100 nuclear pasta in, we already had 1000 for phase 5 :\

[vast mist]

maybe you're just too good at the game

[warm bane]

The step up from phase 4 to phase 5 is much lower than phase 3 to 4

I'm on phase 5 rn and I still haven't automated supercomputers

[arctic willow]

phase 4 used to have massive requirements but they were scaled down in 1.0

combine that with overslooping and scale becomes a non issue

[warm bane]

I meant more in terms of what you need to make when you arrive in phase 4
You have to setup :
Aluminium
Fused frames
Pasta
Supercomputers
Turbomotors
None of which are easy to setup

[north mauve]

Definitely not. I mean I'm only making one manufacturer of turbomotors. Period. That's it. Not even slooped.

[warm bane]

(and let's not forget all the complex intermediaries, like cooling systems or radios)

[north mauve]

Fused Frames are the real PITA here. Alum was easy with alts, but the initial setup sucked.

[warm bane]

Tbh for fused frames I just diverted 3pm from my hmf factory in the rocky desert, piped in the nitrogen from further north, and droned in the 120pm casings needed from over at the west coast
It's been enough of a trickle to carry me thus far

[arctic willow]

by the time i finished phase 5 i had actively automated steel production (30 beams and 40 pipes), motors, aluminium and RIPs, and that was it

everything else was just box feeding a couple of assemblers, a couple of manufacturers, a couple of blenders, a couple of converters, a couple of particle accelerators and a quantum thingy

[warm bane]

Gonna have to properly expand it when I'm going to automate pasta down the line

[vast mist]

what I'd like to know is how / if I should incorporate my personal use factories with my project part factories
for example do you produce computers at every factory that needs them, or have one factory producing them that somehow redistributes them to all factories that need them?

[vast mist]

box feeding I call "cope machines" and I try to avoid them, especially for project parts
it just doesn't feel good to play that way for me

[north mauve]

Jesus m8, the only thing I'm box feeding is iodine filters. Do you actively hate logistics?

[warm bane]

Sometimes you just want to get to the next phase

[north mauve]

Yeah if I wanted to box feed shit out of desperation, I'd be in Factorio

[arctic willow]

slooping a few box-fed machines is just insanely powerful

[north mauve]

I do not ship computers. I do ship supers though.

[north mauve]

Okay but... you're going to need more for the next phase, and the next. So you're just wasting time not doing it the right way.

"Automate early, automate often."

[arctic willow]

and there it is, the three words that always come up in a satisfactory conversation

[north mauve]

The earlier you automate, the less manual labor you spend. Every minute of manual labor is actual wasted effort.

[arctic willow]

"the right way"

[vast mist]

I did cope machines for so many essential items (even basic shit) in my previous run and it kept biting me
got to phase 4 before I decided I needed a fresh start and a different mindset

[north mauve]

This channel is labeled "meta"

[arctic willow]

the job got done, i'm not a speedrunner, ergo it was the right way

there's "meta" and "doing it wrong"

[vast mist]

you can play the game however you like, but if you complain it's too easy, just don't do the strategies that make it so
you don't have to box feed

I mean if you don't enjoy doing that, why do it?

[north mauve]

I'm just surprised that someone in the optimization channel is box feeding

[arctic willow]

i channel hop

[vast mist]

for project parts, do you scale up your regular factories and export, or do you include all the steps in the project part factory itself?
I never know how big to make a factory in terms of needing the items for higher tiers, so I end up redoing work a lot (instead of one big factory for one part, I produce everything from raw resources each time)
this means I don't have to run logistics between factories, but I fear it will get more and more difficult each tier as I produce for example quartz into crystals into oscillators into radios into etc

[north mauve]

do you scale up your regular factories and export
All my facs are bespoke, so they never get updated.

[vast mist]

do you build them for current requirements or plan ahead for future increase in demand?

[north mauve]

Yes

[vast mist]

yes to current requirements or yes to plan ahead

[north mauve]

Yes

[wind spade]

for anything, dedicated independent factory - never touch existing factories, always go ore->final product

[vast mist]

interesting

[wind spade]

see also https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency

[north mauve]

My DD is still fed with the motors and steel factory I made in phase 2

[north mauve]

For RCUs, I made a factory for what I thought was a lot. It wasn't, so my next fac just had a separate RCU factory next to it, where my turbo motor factory had one manu of RCUs in it and the rest were train supplied from the first fac. Bad planning there.

[vast mist]

last run I was lugging around thousands of ingots across the map for no particular reason
this run I'm only using trains where I'm too lazy to setup a truck, because rails are easy to place

[north mauve]

So I make what I need right then, and inevitably make a mistake by doing that, and have more produced elsewhere. Sometimes in a much larger factory with a denser target item, sometimes just a random fac making nothing but that one thing

I don't put ore on a train

[vast mist]

so far this run I'm producing just enough for personal use and stuffing it in a DD (or a two hour wait time to meet requirements when it comes to project parts)
the only things I transport are ores for short distances to factories, and project parts from one phase to the next

I just can't help but feel like a huge train network with interconnected factories would be cool

[charred saffron]

My current playthrough plan is to make a central storage and a lot of "outpost factories" working together via train and truck networks

[vast mist]

what do you put on a train?

[vast mist]

I love the idea of centralizing, but DD and hypertube cannons are just so easy, and train stations just so large

[charred saffron]

It's arguably not a great idea because the Dimensional Depot exists now, but I just love seeing (dense) infrastructure working smoothly

[vast mist]

to clarify I'm not looking for the right way to play, just curious what other people do because I often question my own decisions or don't know what to do next

[north mauve]

I have a lot of trains and I'm not even sure what's on all of them.

I have two polymer (plastic/rubber) trains*, one everything-alum train and one alum-casings-only train, one quartz/silica train, one encased beams train, one ECR train, two nitrogen trains*

*The doubling of these only started this week when I realized a couple facs were getting starved because the travel times across the map were too long and it was using up a whole, full platform of plastic/nitrogen before the train came back. This is what I get for having competing factories on exact opposite corners of the map. So: two trains!

I have a decently extensive train network, from grassy plains to blue crater to red forest to titan forest to dunes

[charred saffron]

The beauty of satisfactory is that it's pretty much a sandbox building game with factories and numbers as a little spice. You can do whatever you want and as long as you can make it work, it's not by definition wrong. Centralisation is just less optimal now that we have cloud storage with the DD.
This run I want to take my lessons in factory building and large-scale logistics from my last save and apply them in a more structured world, so this time I want to make a central storage and outpost factories that are nice to look at and connect everything with infrastructure

[north mauve]

#1 Space parts
#2 Denser/annoying medium items (turbomotors, RCUs, cooling units, etc)
#3 Annoying to mine stuff: plastic/rub, quartz, alum

[north mauve]

Of course Satis is a fairly easy game with no time crunch (no biters eating your coal generators), so anyone can build as large or small as they want.

But, like software engineering, there are standards and guidelines to follow that can allow you to build engineeringly-satisfying and scalable software factories that can make playing the game more fun.

[vast mist]

for phase 2 parts to the phase 3 factory I just recorded a route with an explorer
for phase 3 parts to the phase 4 factory I plan on using drones
they're so low quantity per minute that a train feels overkill

[amber umbra]

@vast mist You can design factories however you want. People here tend to recommend dedicated ore to final product designs as it’s the most simple to plan and pairs well with online calculators.

Some amount of scalable factories that output to multiple downstream production lines works fine. Things like heavy modular frames, crystal oscillators are decent for that. Can use drones to export anywhere on the map easily for low item/minute rates.

You do need to have modular/scalable designs though unless you really plan ahead.

Where people get into trouble is trying to use that style of factory too early on. Building screws in one place isn’t going to work well for multiple reasons for example.

[north mauve]

People here tend to recommend dedicated ore to final product designs as it’s the most simple to plan and pairs well with online calculators.
Right, I do the very lazy version of this. I open up the calc and put in my target item, and when it says I need 43 plastic/min, I tell the calc that I plan on importing the plastic and then I grab it from my train. Because 840/plastic/min is coming out of my starter plastic factory and it still hasn't run out yet

[vast mist]

imagine using screws, couldn't be me

[charred saffron]

chuckles

[north mauve]

Which is hilarious because I haven't made screws since hitting phase 3

[amber umbra]

A similar example is having a single dedicated battery production line for drones. Technically you could produce batteries locally for each drone port for maximum independence. But that’s silly. Just logistics distribute from a single spot. Similar concept applies to other items. Some amount of logistic transport makes sense.

Guys, screws is just an example.

[vast mist]

I do use them for their clean ratios with reinforced iron plates, but only to produce and send directly into the assembler, not to send off or manifold

I did build a battery factory recently actually
I plan to distribute them to all places that need drones
does mean I'll need an extra drone port at each of those locations I guess

[north mauve]

That batteries are literally worthless and not used for anything in this game except one super computer alt makes batteries the most trivial item in the game. One factory is all you ever need, unless you want to make battery super comptuers.

[charred saffron]

Every factory is ore to final product (for that factory), however final products can be used for other products as well, so you just export what one factory makes as ingredient for the next. Works fine if the factories are big enough

Yeah batteries are kinda useless when packaged fuels exist. CSS should make batteries better somehow

[vast mist]

if every factory is ore to final product, how can final products be used for other factories? wouldn't be final then

[amber umbra]

@north mauve Replace battery with desired drone fuel of choice. Really missing the points here.

[vast mist]

if they made it so the hover pack could use them when outside of power range that would be huge

I just wanna fly but also still be able to get achievements

[charred saffron]

If I'm making, let's say, computers from ore to final product, I'm making plastic, cable, sheets, and circuit boards locally. That factory is ore to final product. I'm not exporting any material to another factory to finish the process of computers.
However, computers can be used to make some other things, and I could export part of what my computer factory produces to a factory that produces said other things. That doesn't mean that my computer factory suddenly no longer makes computers from base resources, it just means that it has an export in its product

[vast mist]

ah so when you say ore to final product you don't mean only ore, you mean some pieces are produced from ore and some are imported

[amber umbra]

It is true that the next item made from computers isn’t a “pure” ore to final product design, yes.

[vast mist]

I never know where to draw the line on what to produce and what to import

I guess it's up to preference, but I need a guideline because I don't have any intuition there

[amber umbra]

It’s really a smooth scale of design. Generally keep it mostly raw ore to final product to avoid complexity.

[charred saffron]

The next factory isn't an ore to final product factory, yes, but the computers are. Making versatile items like this at larger scale is really convenient because you can then export part of it for more specific items, which can be produced in import factories

[vast mist]

one thing I tend to do is build the smelters at the nodes and transport the output of that to the factories, because I want the freedom to use alts like alloy ingots without the factory having to worry about that

[vast mist]

okay so some factories are ore to final product and some aren't
what goes into chosing a strategy for each desired part?

like, when is an item general and when is it specific

[amber umbra]

The other nice thing about making a, say, HMF factory that can be scaled to higher rates and exported is you can upgrade it with better miners, belts later. Mk3 miners, T5/6 belts line up well for that.

[vast mist]

I don't scale up factories so far but do design them such that I can come back and overclock all machines later if necessary

[charred saffron]

My thought process in this is versatility of items. Am I going to need product A for a lot of other factories? If yes, large-scale ore to final product, if no, import based on the ore to product factories I already have.
Things like Rotors, Modular Frames and the various Aluminium products are great products to make in ore to final product factories imo (this part will be down to personal preference, though), but something like motors or HMFs I can allow to work on import, because I won't need them as much

[vast mist]

for example my rocket fuel factory produces 18 GW, but for the low low price of like 200 power shards I could make that 36 GW

[wind spade]

unless I know exactly how much I'm gonna need for the other products, I make only what I need now (and build the amount for other products in other products' factories)

[north mauve]

#design-and-architecture message Example of how lazy I am and how much I import via train vs how much I source locally

Stupid turbomotors

[vast mist]

oh that's really helpful actually
both to see how someone does logistics, and a reminder that signs are more than just light sources

[north mauve]

? What point am I missing?

[north mauve]

Rocket fuel

[vast mist]

I meant hover while building

my current solution involves putting power poles everywhere

it's inconvenient while making a tall structure

[north mauve]

The answer to this is just how a calculator screen makes you feel. If you enter in a target output and the graph scares you, that's too much to make at once.

[charred saffron]

Keeping a bunch of wall power outlets on the layer you just finished or are working on is prb the best solution. The way the hoverpack works also reminds me to place railroad tracks on the path I'm working, so I don't mind it xD

[vast mist]

oop I'll come back later, need to go outsi

[charred saffron]

Go touch grass my friend! See you around!

[north mauve]

As a note that's something I never do, besides aluminum. I don't think I have ore or ingots on a train anywhere, except for alum ingots for FMFs

[north mauve]

Can't, covered it with foundation

[charred saffron]

lmao

[brisk smelt]

seperate factories for aluminium and plastic, independent factories for space parts everything else

[vast mist]

does your aluminum factory export sheets and casings directly or only ingots?

[north mauve]

My main alum train has all three because all three are needed for stuff. My secondary only carries casings because they are needed more than the others (so far, I have only just started phase 5)

Sheets are needed in phase 5, so they probably need to be on a train. I don't want to combine ingots with copper in a new fac.

Sheets are also needed for heat sinks, but I only make these with their alt which uses casings. Soooo technically you can get by up until phase 5 with no sheets on a train.

And if you make FMFs with casings, you don't need ingots either!

Sorry I'm figuring this out as I type it.

There is no alt for a specific phase 5 item, which needs a bunch of alclad sheets. If you ignore that, you do not need ingots or sheets on a train. Just casings.

Only 45/min are needed (each building) for the phase 5 item, so a drone could handle that fairly easily, and then you never need sheets on a train.

Cool, thank you for asking this question. I'm going to replace my two train cars of sheets and ingots with more casings.

[brisk smelt]

ingot only

there's no copper in the red forest anyways

[amber umbra]

Just transporting the Al ingots is what I do. Then build the consuming factories near copper.

[vast mist]

I do love some locally sourced organic ores

[vast mist]

how many different items do you make in one factory?

[knotty siren]

As many as you want to?

[vast mist]

for example here's my electronics factory

originally I wanted to do supercomputers and radio control units too but decided to leave them out because it was already a lot

my question is does it make sense to try to shove those things into here, or would you just make another factory?

I'd also like to include fused modular frames and perhaps turbo motors

[north mauve]

Definitely not modular enough for me. This does not spark joy. Anxiety triggered.

I would modularize these and increase the production of each section.

My design process is a balance of having a factory small enough I can keep it all in my head at the same time, hitting a specific target item/min, and fully utilizing at least one node type. If you're taking a trickle from a bunch of local resource nodes, you might as well scale it up to max out one resource in the area. But if that would be too big and complex of a factory for my mind to handle, I'd split it up into multiple facs. This makes it much easier to work on aesthetics too.

[vast mist]

fair, I'll give that a try, thanks

[brisk smelt]

one

or two, petrochem (plastic, rub)

[north mauve]

It greatly simplifies factory building to focus on one target item, and only export that one item.

[unborn ermine]

tbh its incredibly hard to read that spaghetti program as it is

[hybrid heart]

how can i split this 300/min out coal split 60/240

[north mauve]

Step 1: don't?

[hybrid heart]

nice advice ty but i rather split them

[north mauve]

Step 2 (optional): Maybe a combination of mk2 belts going one direction, and the rest going the other direction

[unborn ermine]

Have one production line from that splitter only consume 60/min

aka manifold

[north mauve]

(and manifolds don't care about balance, taking you back to step 1)

[unborn ermine]

still better than crapping on a question

[weak rose]

me when i just connected my rocket fuel plant

[weak rose]

manifold it

[wind spade]

one splitter

[plain fossil]

ok so gas doesnt need pumps right?

[deft lichen]

nope

[vapid gorge]

1 splitter. It self balances

[heady vine]

every day i learn something new, nice

[unreal spire]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/balancers/detail/index/id/2to5/name/2+to+5 You can ignore either the green or red input, and then just merge 4 of the outputs into 1.

[vapid gorge]

you don't even need this, which is why no thought load balancing is brain rot. You could just have 1 splitter with 1xmk1 and 1xmk3 and it'd do the same

[deft lichen]

1xmk1 2xmk2

[unreal spire]

*A balanced factory doesn't require load balancing, but some people like to split things

[vapid gorge]

if you have a splitter split into two, 1xmk1 1xmk3, it'll try to fill the mk1 as much as it can. Don't need 3 splits

[deft lichen]

are you 100% sure? my assumption is that the mk1 would be almost full, with the mk3 receiving slightly more than it should

either way balacing is silly, manifold is da wae

[unreal spire]

I believe the behavior of the splitter is to attempt to evenly divide the input among all outputs, so it would be trying to put 150 on each line, sending the 90 that can't fit into the mk3 side

[vapid gorge]

yes

and even if what you said was correct, it would still self balance over time 😛

meaning it'd be 60 and 250 xD

[plain fossil]

ok damn i mastered train pathing

[vast mist]

I'd smart splitter into an mk1 and send the overflow in a higher tier

actually a regular splitter would behave the same way too I think

I use lower tier belts all the time for "throttled manifolds" (idk what other people call them)

[grave prism]

If you could pick between trucks or trains would you build both? Trains over trucks or trucks over trains?

[vapid gorge]

they have different situations where they shine

[grave prism]

How so?

[vapid gorge]

you need a lot more basic infrastructure for trains, more work if you don't want it a mess, more constricted on elevation and turns, LOTS more space, more power per unit moved (though power/fuel consumption in the game is kinda inconsequential)

trucks can be more compact, much less basic infrastructure, less fuel/power

the main down side is making sure fuel is available but that's part of the planning process

[wind spade]

trucks you just plop down two stations and you're done. However they can't really reach the mass scale of what trains can do

[vapid gorge]

and you can do different things with trucks

for example if you have a fairly short trip you could have like 4 stations on each loading and unloading spot fed by 2 belts with only 1 truck moving between them

which can be nice visually if you don't want many belts stretched over an area

also gives movement to your factory

[fast knoll]

How do yall do math for fuel generators? i never make enought fuel? if i wanted 10 Fuel generators, how many refineries do i need making heavy oil and how many refs do i need making fuel

[vapid gorge]

work backwards

how much fuel does each gen need? multiply that by the number you want

how much fuel does the recipe you want to use make per refinery? make enough refineries to supply those fuel gens.

[fast knoll]

i did that in the last setup and still doesnt make enough

[vapid gorge]

using this is very useful for that.

then you either made a math mistake or you have a flow issue and fuel isn't getting to the gens

[fast knoll]

last 4 gens on the line starved and it worked backwards straving almsot all 8

[vapid gorge]

could easily be a flow issue if you've got bad piping.

feel free to post overhead shots of your pipe layouts

[fast knoll]

pipes are getting fuel flow

cant see a flow issue

[vapid gorge]

are your refineries clogged wit hfuel?

[fast knoll]

no

[vapid gorge]

so all of them have green lights all the time

you've stared at them for 30 seconds?

[fast knoll]

no hafl the time

[grave prism]

I see, I just figured that there had be like a distance efficiency to it. Like at what point those the truck becomes more resource efficient than belts and when does the train becomes more efficient than a truck

[fast knoll]

has to fill up with heavy oil

then makes fuel

[vapid gorge]

so they are starved of heavy oil?

[fast knoll]

yes

[vapid gorge]

so you have a HOR flow issue

or math issue. Always follow problems backwards with trouble shooting

[fast knoll]

dumb question, can i VC with you?

[vapid gorge]

well like I mentioned above, the fuel power consumption of either is, in reality, negligeble. Power and fuel is so easy it really comes down to the situation you've created that needs trucks or trains and which you find more convenient

[vapid gorge]

eh, I'm puttering around doing stuff, would prefer to avoid it if possible

most pipe systems are easily troubleshot with over head images

[grave prism]

Gotcha

[vapid gorge]

for example you know theres an HOR flow issue.

are the HOR producers backed up with HOR or starving

[vapid gorge]

for example, I extremely dislike how big train stations are so I tend to make them quite long distance only and run shorter distance belts underneath the rail to reduce the number of stations I need

If they made stations only half as wide that would make my week.

[wet python]

hmmm which calculators have ficsmas stuff?

[versed violet]

wtf is 'reject invite' recipe?

[static drift]

Only thing I can think of is that you have run out of valid alt recipes for your current level 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

MaM accepted next hdd for scan, so nope

[static drift]

Does it still reject if only one recipe is left?

[wind spade]

95% translation error

[winged gulch]

Is that not how the British say it? Should be fixed next time translations get updated.

[magic island]

nah, the British phrase "Steamed Copper Sheet" would translate to "Angry Policeman Sheet"

[glacial rain]

ffs, that's too funny

[winged gulch]

Shit, this is what happens when a canuck tries to edit the bri'ish localisation. Also, hi, fellow Bex! 💜

[grave prism]

Yeah, i dont seem to sold on the matter either but doubt they will change that

[vapid gorge]

nah, would need a mod for that. There's already a small station mod but it's pretty ugly

[wary rapids]

alright i think now got my arms sushi system dialed in.

[amber umbra]

Getting around to thermal propulsion rocket, turbo motor, cooling system factory. It do have a lot of inputs.

[wary rapids]

i wasn't able to string thermal rockets into my tier 4 factory. and i turn of super computers when i need to stack cooling systems.

[vapid gorge]

I don't know why people keep posting modeler images. They're completely illegible

[wary rapids]

that easy to read

[vapid gorge]

I expanded the image to browser even and it's too pixelated to read

even the program though is awful for actually looking at info

[wary rapids]

your right its is to grainy

[vapid gorge]

but I've looked at that program actually in use, and the user interface is god awful. Tiny writting, small images instead of just saying what it's making

[wary rapids]

it takes about 3 times longer for me to use tools

[long jungle]

it easy to see even without expan o.o

[charred saffron]

That goes for like every visualisation of large projects tbh. The calculator isn't much better as images. At least that thing has the option to export it as a link

[vapid gorge]

scim also sucks

[vapid gorge]

this is fully expanded.

[charred saffron]

scim calc sucks, yeah. The rest of scim is pretty neat

[unborn ermine]

The problem for me, its spaghetti flowing back into a planner, its so gross to me.

[charred saffron]

real gamers use pen and paper

I say as modeler user lmao

[wary rapids]

the diagrams its make are great its just much worse to use.

[vapid gorge]

sf tools has faster and better diagrams

[wary rapids]

you have to tell it everything you dont want and everything you do want. in hopes that it make the right connections.

[vapid gorge]

I'm sure I could make that plan you shared in tools in 30 seconds, while the trial I did of modeler would take ages doing every step by hand

[wary rapids]

way more effeceint you just drag the boxes.

[vapid gorge]

tools?

just swap recipes.

you add a new circuit board recipe? uncheck the old one

[wary rapids]

yeah

right you have to go though the tire list and unchceck every wrong thing

[vapid gorge]

at that point it's your own fault having multiple recipes going, can't expect it to magically read your mind

[wary rapids]

into you get the one thing you do want.

[charred saffron]

Modeler is decently fast once you get used to it tbh. I can work fast with it at least 🤔

[vapid gorge]

no? default page only has 1 recipe for each item

[wary rapids]

and you have to do that with the simpleist diagram

[vapid gorge]

don't check every alt recipe and you don't have that issue

[unborn ermine]

I still dont get people that do that, for the "best" chains.

[long jungle]

tools is for lazy peeps better moeler is more brainwork

[wary rapids]

but i always want an alt reicpe and dont want the defaul one 90 percenet fo the time.

[vapid gorge]

they don't consider they should make plans with locations in mind

[wary rapids]

for me the workflow in modeler is 3 time faster

[vapid gorge]

doing every step by hand isn't brain work, it's drudge work.

you aren't special if you do all your dishes by hand instead of sticking them in the dish washer

[wary rapids]

if i dont know which recipe to do i do a comparison diagram. i would have never been able to arrive at the same conclsions with tools

[vapid gorge]

in this metaphor Modeler is hand washing dishes

the dish washer is Tools

Except unlike the dish washer, tools is also faster.

[wary rapids]

tools is like the YouTube short were you get all the info in the comment section.

with everyone rosting the orginal video

[unborn ermine]

you clone a tab with the same settings, change one tab's recipes BAM its done

its that simple to compare

[vapid gorge]

that makes no sense

[wary rapids]

Thiers just somethings you just cant condense into a bite size TLDR

[charred saffron]

Imma be honest, y'all be yappin. Just use whatever works for you. They all do the same thing slightly different, it's not that deep

[wary rapids]

Yeah i realize eveyone here knows what thier doing.

its prefernce thing.

[solid mauve]

im new and idk what im doing, what is sftools?

[charred saffron]

It is, yeah. I've done everything on pen and paper for a while before figuring out the modeler xD

[wary rapids]

You should look at both programs for sure and see what you like best

SF tools is the website uneder the namae satisfactory tools.

also look for interactive map

[unborn ermine]

The pins have the links to Satisfactory Tools and SCIM (map and save editor and planner I guess )

[wary rapids]

the modeler that i use is less common and is a free steam game.

[solid mauve]

neat, ty!

[vapid gorge]

got the best user interface options https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

SCIM has a great map, but the interface for it's planner leaves something to be desired

compared to tools anyways

[solid mauve]

yea ive kinda noticed that myself

i think i just need to get used to sftools

[vapid gorge]

SCIM planner is still a lot better than many other planners though and I can understand why some people want ot use the same website as the map.

[long jungle]

lot better? scim planner is the worst thing ever

[vapid gorge]

compared to most of the other planners people have linked on here? still a lot better than those

I'd say it's ranked 2nd. A distant second, but still second

[jade magnet]

@foggy wasp and these complaints from Ada are all that the developers had to accuse us of with their crazy ideas. "so perfect" .. thanks for the attention (secret note: and for my english). 😉

[heady vine]

i have no idea how much i need for ficsmas, so, what's a good starting production goal?

oh wait it's not in satisfcatorytools?.. sad

[long jungle]

produce what you think is good and go with the process

hard to say what is good or not becaue everone has different goals

[heady vine]

so, just inputtting random items..

[carmine fox]

Is it updated for all 2024 ficsmas items?

[paper pewter]

revision needed, did I overuse alts or something like this, cus I feel like thats not the most optimal solution https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=oVcHV8hS7pepPU4t3p2y

[carmine fox]

It's missing the Gift input for all items except for the Tree Branch ._.

[long jungle]

delete the coal i what i would do first 1. you ddont need coal 2. it hurt to build a miner for that little ammount

[paper pewter]

ok

[long jungle]

it could be that it shows you that you need oil after delete coal delete the oil too its not needed

only things you need is iron limestone and water @paper pewter

[paper pewter]

yep, done

ty

[heady vine]

what can i say, it's not on me

[carmine fox]

I know, I am just sad and wanted to mention it

[latent seal]

this looks like the ideal way, is it not?

i mean it removes copper

i think

[north mauve]

Simpler items too

[wind spade]

there's nothing like "ideal" with recipes. Each player has different preferences

[vast jungle]

Everything with crystal oscillators can be a pain

[north mauve]

There's no meta?

[wind spade]

not really

there may be for specific preferences (e.g. for "least space used"), but a generic "use X recipe" doesn't really exist

[carmine fox]

There's also a theoretical maximum on sink points you can reach if that's your goal

but for most people the point of the game is to have fun. So there is no "best"

And if you really wanted to use all the resources on the map your save would probably be too big to really be playable, so don't worry too much about it

[north mauve]

NO META IN #math-and-meta HEARD IT HERE FIRST FOLKS

[wind spade]

no meta for "recipe preferences"

[north mauve]

Sounds like you're saying recipes are entirely subjective

[carmine fox]

Most are

[wind spade]

they are

[north mauve]

Many recipes are straight up better in 90% of use cases

[tidal dock]

they're

[wind spade]

better than what? if you're comparing two recipes in vacuum, maybe. But not if you're comparing whole production lines (which you should)

[carmine fox]

it depends on what you count as "better", some use less energy per item, some produce faster, some use less resources

[wind spade]

and how do you define "better" anyway?

[north mauve]

I think you're mistaking the existence of subjectivity as if there is no such thing as any objectivity

[wind spade]

for example:

a production line ingot->rod->screw is "worse" than ingot->screw in many parameters, but this doesn't mean that cast screw recipe is "better" than normal screw

[wind spade]

I'm not. It's just that there's no objectively better recipe

[carmine fox]

I think there might be one or two iirc

but yeah, most alts are just different

[wind spade]

there's none

[north mauve]

Again you seem to be arguing a different thing. If an alt recipe is better in 90% of cases, that falls in what one would conside the meta.

"No recipe is truly better than all other recipes in 100% of cases" is useless information.

[wind spade]

again - how do you define "better"

[north mauve]

Contextually. And context is not synonymous with subjective.

Also diluted fuel + the HOR alt is straight up better, 100% of the time

[wind spade]

how do you define "better" here?

because f.e. in complexity it's worse

[north mauve]

It's hardly even more complex, but okay

[wind spade]

I know. I don't have a problem with "this recipe is better for this"
I have a problem with "this recipe is always better"

if you come to me and ask what recipe is good given some preferences, there's definitely a specific answer

[north mauve]

I think if you got a hundred people who have played this game for 100 hours and had them look at the recipes, HOR+DF would be considered a top tier, superior combo of alt recipes

None of this pedantry bullshit

[wind spade]

... if you want mass production of oil products

[north mauve]

Well, it's a factory game, so, yeah people want that

[wind spade]

but you may need just a small setup for given location

[north mauve]

Congrats you found the <10%

Meta destroyed, mods delete the channel

I'm sorry but the things you are arguing are useless pedantry.

[wind spade]

this channel is not just about "what recipe is best" meta

[north mauve]

So every time someone posts a screenshot of the MAM asking for a suggestion, they're wrong, every time, because nothing matters?

[wind spade]

I'm sorry but I don't want people to be claiming incorrect things. We have enough confused people coming from tier lists and asking why does a recipe suck if X tier list said it's S tier

[wind spade]

they should get a reply saying which recipe does what and pick themselves

which I often do, quoting this #math-and-meta message

[north mauve]

🙄

[wind spade]

this is from pre-1.0 so it doesn't mention rerolls or keeping recipes in MAM to remove them from the pool, but after 1.0 people mostly stopped asking the question anyway

in my opinion this is much better approach than blindly following a random person's "pick X" suggestion, usually without any clarification whatsoever

that's like asking a random person on the street whether you should buy car A or car B.

it'll be heavily influenced by the other person's preferences and by popularity. Most likely the answer wouldn't be tailored to your needs specifically (unless you specify your needs, e.g. "I need a family car with at least 6 seats and large storage space" - which equals to people specifying what "best" they mean when they talk about recipes)

[north mauve]

To me this looks like the best deal. The default is kinda slow, and computers AND oscillators? Boo, that's a lot of work*.

The second alt with heat sinks and HSC: the heat sinks are just the casings and rubber from your alt, but with an extra machine, so a ding there. The HSC replace the computers from the original recipe, but is adding qwire and either cable or silica which isn't great if you're trying to make it all in one production line without imports. But it's the only recipe without COs. If you purely want a recipe without COs, I guess this one wins?

Since CBs are necessary for both computers and HSC, the one you're showing does seem to be the simplest (in one production line) with the highest output per machine, from seemingly the least amount of different sources.

*I have only built RCUs once, very early on, and I'm going with the original recipe but using CO computers which greatly simplifies the total production line. If I were to make more, I would go with the rubber and CB route which looks great.

To greeny nothing matters and we need your life story to be able to answer, rather than assuming you're mildly competent and not a clueless bumpkin.

Maybe the best way to make RCUs is simply make a ton of COs and computers in separate factories and combine them into RCUs.

[wind spade]

I love people being hyperbolic

I'm simply saying there's no generic way that fits all

I never said "nothing matters"

[ember fractal]

COs is the way hehe

They're a pain to make, but makes other parts easier

[latent seal]

yeah, you're being subjectively overobjective

idk if that made any sense or not tbh

best in general of course doesn't mean best in every situation

but there is a best in general, thats a real measurable thing

so subjectively speaking best is generally the best in general but objectively speaking maybe its totally subjective anyways the other ways are wrong

I need to go back to doing my real job now

[latent seal]

thats actually what I'm doing

Also, the original statement was that the recipe was "ideal"

which is a word that has way different implication than "best"

[north mauve]

I'm only here because I'm at my real job, where I cannot be in game, heh

[latent seal]

yeeahhh

AI helped here a lot!
Aspect Ideal Best
Focus Perfection, theoretical Practicality, achievable
Realism Often unrealistic or hypothetical Realistic and applicable
Compromise No compromises; fits all criteria Involves trade-offs to fit constraints
Timeframe Long-term, aspirational goal Short-term, actionable decision

so when I asked if it was an ideal recipe, that's a perfectly valid question, as it excludes constraints

i love that words mean things

best for me is making iron wire for my stators because my receiving warehouse isn't setup to receive copper product yet

😦

best can be so ugly

[north mauve]

I do that in many of my facs anyway, because building a bunch more iron stuff is less hassle than bringing in copper, or building near copper at all. I think I generally go for the simplest route for almost everything.

[latent seal]

I dont want that either ❤️

[coarse bay]

Are the upgraded fuel, like turbo, rocket and ion producing more electrity for less amount? (I am very very very bad at any math logic and logic lol)

[latent seal]

it takes less turbofuel to keep a generator running than it does regular fuel

i want to blend biofuel into turbofuel though forreal

[coarse bay]

thanks!

[latent seal]

i make 5000 kw with 8 generators using 12 refineries total

thats my turbofuel plant

4 for fuel, 8 for turbo fuel, I think I have 8 assemblers for compacted coal

[wind spade]

And still needs to be defined what you mean by that

[latent seal]

I consider the loose definitions like that as good lingerie in conversation, for the imagination

But the word is defined as much as its definition, it is like a vector in a world of static arrays

[heady vine]

that moment when i fuck up priorities... and end up sinking first

[knotty siren]

I think the idea is that you can have more plants using turbo/rocket fuel or you can overclock the existing plants more easily than if you have regular fuel

Also "ideal" or "best" recipe selection and setups can vary from person to person

[wind spade]

this is exactly the problem

[wind spade]

I assume you mean MW?

[latent seal]

Conversation usually elicits those details when asked what is ideal due to the very nature of what ideal means in the context of the current conversation

Like when I mentioned that the recipe didn’t use copper as a positive.

The problem with the internet is not the spread of false ideas, it’s people stifling communication because they get triggered.

[rotund lynx]

So it's come time for me to prepare an actual factory that produces everything that's become available up to Tier 6, and I'm kinda realizin' that I'm not sure how much planning I should put into this, or if I can just wing it. I'll be pulling steel, quartz, and crude oil products from separate factories, but is it feasible to kinda just go for it?

[wind spade]

if someone asks about "best" or "ideal", I ask them for further clarification
if someone says something is "always best", I tell them that they either need to be more specific, or they aren't right

so far I had overwhelmingly positive feedback on replying with the message I mentioned earlier, so I take it as a success 🤷

[latent seal]

It’s not a terrible option, it is a great option if you hate conversation

[wind spade]

I'm totally fine with conversation and some people asked for further clarification 🤷

[latent seal]

I’m being crabby. I probably need a nap.

Apologies

this milestone is obnoxious

it is obnoxious because it is saying "hahahahaha, you don't have copper anyhere within 15 kilometers

where my aluminum is

[wind spade]

but most new people either:

• don't know that there's more drives than alts (so they can get both recipes and don't have to choose only one), or
• don't know that they will be given the other option (that you reject) later when more drives will be scanned, or
• come from some youtube videos/reddit posts that claim "X recipe is S tier, Y recipe is F tier"

all those people usually have similar questions and the message answers most of them. Anything other they can clarify and ask 🙂

(yes, it's kinda "lazy" from my side to not write a personalised message to every person, but this way 95% of questions gets filtered out and only a very small amount of people get annoyed by the reply or something, similar to replying with "manifold" to "how to balance X" questions - most people don't know about manifolds and those that really want a balancer will clarify so after the reply)

[latent seal]

best way to get copper here?

or do I need to take aluminum elsewhere?

[wind spade]

I personally like the approach of "if I'm building a factory that needs resources X and Y, I build it near X and Y source"

in some cases there's no place on the map that has all the required resources, in that case I chose a location closest to most resources and ship remainig ones by whatever transport method fits the situation

[zealous iris]

360 fuel into a straight 600 pipe feeding into 18 generators.
pipes backup. generators starve to death.

What in the F is going on.... I'm going to rage quit.

[wind spade]

did you loop the pipe?

[zealous iris]

the pipe just dead ends. So no.

[wind spade]

it's generally recommended to do so

like this

[zealous iris]

The fuel won't make it from point A to point B. So I'm not sure what looping an empty pipe is going to do. hehe

[rotund lynx]

Have you checked if a pump helps?

[zealous iris]

I tried a pump, they are all on the same level, so it doesn't make a difference.

[rotund lynx]

So your fluid doesn't make it to any of the generators?

[zealous iris]

it trickles in

[rotund lynx]

Are the generators the only thing powering the pump?

[long jungle]

was the pipe complete full BEFORE you start the Geenerators?

[zealous iris]

Yeah I filled the pipes to 100%, turned on all the generators, then they all die, and the un-pacckagers are backed up and turning off.

[rotund lynx]

Could we see what the setup looks like?

[zealous iris]

also, they are power independent, they don't need anything to be running for it to all work, this is all bonus-power.

i posted in questions-and-help. here are pictures. #1314347713068011551 message

[long jungle]

turned on at samee time?

[zealous iris]

i've tried both methods. turning on a few at a time, or all at once.

[long jungle]

all at once i the worsst thing ever

never do that

[livid turret]

I say to this "Iron Wire" and laugh in the face of copper

[latent seal]

my aluminum sheets are made with copper sheets 😦 i dont have an alternate yett whyyyy

[livid turret]

You gotta hunt for those drives man

[solid mauve]

recommended to do this every time?

i havent been looping my pipes

[hushed prawn]

Does this work? The middle input is 600/s, the left and right are 300/s, should equal to 600/s on both outputs, right?

[wind spade]

it doesn't hurt, so why not

[solid mauve]

ok i will do it from here on

[vapid gorge]

that's the great thing, no single 'meta', depends entirely on location, other recipes used, other items made and personal preference

[vapid gorge]

sure but you need a lot of context and reasons to describe it as ideal then

[hushed prawn]

This appears to be working, yes

[brisk smelt]

only when pushing pipe to 600/min

[warm bane]

Any specific reason you don't just merge the 2 300/min together ?

[hushed prawn]

Total throughput of 1,200/min

split between two outputs of 600/min

Belt throughput limits

[warm bane]

Yeah, but I mean, instead of doing 300+(600/2) and (600/2)+300, why not keep the 600 line at 600, and merge the 2 300 lines together ? That would lead to the same result, with less complexity

[low veldt]

Ia there a mathmatical difference between underclocking and letting something just idle on and off?

[warm bane]

Power consomption is lower overall

[wind spade]

underclocked machine will use less power on average

but the difference is very small

[warm bane]

It's also more satisfying to see everything working, imho

[zealous iris]

Is there a good solution for how dog ass slow mergers are?
I have 60 x 10 trying to merge onto a single belt, and its so backed up that the first 4 machines stop working because they can't get rid of their empty canisters fast enough.

(Running a 780 belt)

[wind spade]

mergers have infinite throughput, only limited by the output belt

[zealous iris]

A manifold of mergers 1000000% backs up though.

[wind spade]

most likely some user error, e.g. a small piece of mk1 belt somewhere or something

[zealous iris]

I don't even hotkey anything under mk5 heh

I will double check. Perhaps something weird happened I guess.

[latent seal]

all you gotta do is hit e when ur about to place and not notice

[zealous iris]

I didn't even know that hotkey existed.

I need to un-map that. ha

[warm bane]

It's a pretty convenient hotkey though, you also use it to cycle between buildings/blueprints in the same category. Hold it and you get a wheel with all the options

[heady vine]

Except containers. They are special and limit inside category. Kinda sad

[zealous iris]

I have a 780 belt feeding 10 refineries.
5 splitters.

So it splits in half 5 times.

It requires 600 packaged water.

I'm making 600 packaged water.

the last 4 refineries run dry.

Shouldn't 600/m input be enough??

I let them all fill up to 100%, then turn them on 1 at a time.

After a few minutes, they are offline.

Do I need to do some other method to feed them? I use this manfold everywhere else and its fine.

There is even bottled water in a buffer before the inputs....

Is it just splitting so much it can't keep up?

[wind spade]

Should be fine

[zealous iris]

Ahh I found my problem.

My 600 / pm water extractors dont actually make enough to support 600 / pm.

4 of 5 water extractors are 100% full and turning off.
5 packages offline for no water.

Makes sense to me!

stupid me thought 120 * 5 = 600.
But I guess that really means 120 * 5 = 120.

pipe math.

[wind spade]

What

[zealous iris]

5 water extractors in a straight pipe, no lift.
going into 10 water packagers.
extractors are turned off with 200 water in their output, and maxed pipes.
water packagers are sitting with barely any water in them.

I tried re-locating pipes so it drains into the packagers. doesn't matter.

Right around 8 packagers is all 5 water extractors can support.

Math isn't mathing.

[burnt musk]

you can say that again

my math isnt mathing either

anyone want to help take a swing at this

t

please and thank you

[vapid gorge]

get rid of the buffer

are all these interconnected?

[burnt musk]

i started with out the buffer and still had the same issue

[vapid gorge]

that's nice? it's either going to do nothing or cause issues, so may as well rule it out

[burnt musk]

fair enough

[vapid gorge]

and the connections?

[burnt musk]

they are connected to the center line not the box surronding the refieny groups

so from refinery to mid lane to buffer(that i will delete)

[spice ether]

are you getting rid of the HOR fast enough? itll shut off if it cant dump its byproduct

[vapid gorge]

so this is plastic and rubber refineries with Heavy oil residue by product being turned into fuel?