math-and-meta

[jolly furnace]

iron wire or recycled plastic?

and

iron pipe or plastic AI limiter

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message

[wary rapids]

alsway do oil things.that is one you need.

[oblique venture]

Well if I say I have 600 rocket fuel per minute, divided by 4.166 per minute gives a needed 144 generators, 144 generators burning at 2000 MJ gives 518,000 MJ

[wind spade]

*MW

[wary rapids]

let me show you how to manually do the calculation.

[oblique venture]

How many joules in a watt?

[wind spade]

1 W = 1 Joule over 1 second

[wary rapids]

yes

[wind spade]

also, 144 generators make 36 GW

not sure where you got 518 GW

[wary rapids]

1200 fuel / 4.16667 burned per generator per min.

gives you 288

[prisma kraken]

all of them are good

[wind spade]

yeah there's no "bad" recipe

[wary rapids]

288 gerenators per 300 oil.

and you could do more oil.

[prisma kraken]

but i really mean all of them he listed are good, lol

[wind spade]

and I mean all of the alts in the game 😛

[prisma kraken]

cough fine concrete cough

[wind spade]

what's bad about it? if you have quartz nearby, it's a nice boost

2nd best limestone -> concrete ratio, beaten only by rubber

[versed violet]

Finally managed to reset my save to blank state for 1.0 story, while keeping factory, hours/days played, swatches and truck paths.
Anyone here interested in guide + script for that? (Yes, I made it semi automated and kept notes)

[prisma kraken]

i have better uses for silica and using limestone to make even more silica that won't go to waste

[wind spade]

that's your specific situation though, which doesn't make the recipe bad globally

[wary rapids]

nice

[fringe pawn]

Where on the map does fine concrete make sense now that nodes have moved? This was why I considered the defense of fine concrete to be absurd pre 1.0.

[prisma kraken]

i'll not argue, but i don't feel you are likely to ever use that recipe

like i mean, even charcoal seems more useful than fine concrete

[wind spade]

eh, I've seen a lot of people use it

[prisma kraken]

zero for me

[prisma kraken]

maybe nw rocky desert or titan forest

[wary rapids]

allot of things make no sence late game can be good in early game.

[fringe pawn]

It could only ever make sense if you've already routed quartz to somewhere, but not used it. Otherwise you're more likely to pass more limestone on your way to finding quartz.

[wary rapids]

it could make sence if you built yourstarter base on top off quartz.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's a few recipes that really only make sense at midgame stage, i don't know if i'd consider fine concrete in that category though

[wary rapids]

you wont use 3 nodes of quartz untill much later in the game.

and many places have 2-3 nodes.

[fringe pawn]

Is it even possible to land near quartz? I'm not sure the starter base scenario makes sense.

[prisma kraken]

not any of those places have limestone near the quartz though

[wary rapids]

thing is you proablly need a litte quartz do do many thigns anyway. so its hard to get out of doing some of the logistics.

[prisma kraken]

i'd like to find a justification for fine concrete as a situational thing, i just don't think it really exists

[wary rapids]

you might not need 3 nodes but its just as easy to route 3 nodes as one node

[prisma kraken]

with long range logistics, sure

but long range logistics kind of happens at the same time as rubber, so um...

[wary rapids]

i just made a supper long belt. then i built a train on on the belt. then i built a highyway one top off the train.

[fringe pawn]

But you're going to pass tons of other limestone on the way to those quartz nodes. So why not just route those with the quartz? Fine concrete is also power inefficient compared to default concrete.

[prisma kraken]

there's always the first playthrough where you don't know what recipes exist and don't go looking for all the hd's, a few recipes are there for that

[wary rapids]

id say skipp the hard drive hunt if you have done it once. it takes almost a week. to get them all.

[prisma kraken]

i have one too! (and note what's on the belts)

[wary rapids]

4 fast lanes of silica.

[prisma kraken]

4k/min

probably kind of a waste to use it on aluminum as i am, its actually better yielding to convert the quartz to bauxite

[wary rapids]

id have to do a spread sheet to know that. id switch to wasting aluminum but im using almost no caterium with the quartz processes.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, for me it was more that i really wanted to get 3200 ingots out of the TF bauxite instead of tapping pink forest or swamp stuff

[wary rapids]

im hopeing to get though tier 4 with this amount of circurt boards.

[prisma kraken]

that's what i'm working on now as a project, not a huge build, but 630/min cb's with 4500/min qw as byproduct

one half of the factory is done, i'm getting there on the 2nd half

[wary rapids]

i will be happy if it works out i can do the rest of tier 4 in this one building.

[prisma kraken]

really isn't a hard build and the actual factory is pretty simple, its the horses*** i've been dealing with with tractors & trucks

and tangents like measuring drone fuel consumption, lol

[unborn ermine]

Im kinda loathing finishing my chain of things because of that, I still havent done a deep dive to see how much my drone chain consumes.

[wary rapids]

put a car garrage under the train staion sence trains take the room of an entire factory.

i still have a utilatarin aprrach to oil. it ends up looking good as a side effect of being organized

[next shoal]

Is it normal for the belt carrying the ore from the miner getting stuck briefly once the first smelter in a manyfolds is full? I would rather it just never stopped

[wary rapids]

if your worred about it you can doa sink test.

[next shoal]

What's that?

[wary rapids]

take all your smeted iron and overflow into a sink.

then put some iron ingot into a contanier.

if the level stays the same you have max effecentcy

this is the output of may alumium im sinking it now sence im getting quartz from it.

[next shoal]

Apparently I fixed it by changing the mk1 belt to an mk2... but the mk 1 was just carrying 60 after the split... What the hell?

[wary rapids]

if i put a sotradge contater before that sink

and annother one in the boxite loading area.

i should see both contaners maintain the some level.

ive found some errors with my trains by doing that.

[next shoal]

I already mentioned I fixed it by upgrading the belt but... the numbers don't make sense at all

[wary rapids]

you run numbers first. but you always need a way of benchmarking to know something is not off.

just like in real life.

[next shoal]

Ah wait... maybe it does? The first smelter being full made the 60 belt try to move 120... that makes sense

[prisma kraken]

its a very good way of finding problems, but be very careful about belt speeds with it all

[unborn ermine]

Oh and be careful with 1m floorholes!

they eat throughput

[prisma kraken]

this is so off that it almost looks intentional, lol

[unborn ermine]

If you need a floorhole there for the glass, remember you can always place a decorative one instead, or if its a positional one using a 2m foundation and replacing the foundation after with glass also works.

[prisma kraken]

i'm not suure i've seen that to be the case, honestly

[unborn ermine]

I have had that issue personally

it compounds when using max throughput and having more than one floorhole

[prisma kraken]

i've seen mergers eat throughput, i think, but not the floorholes

[unborn ermine]

I had 2 arrays of machines pushing out 780/min copper ingots, 2 1m floorholes were killing the production.

they consistently started overflowing and worked after I circumvented my 1m floorholes.

[prisma kraken]

i think you're blaming belts not operating at speed on floorholes instead of the belts not operating at speed

*belts/lifts

[unborn ermine]

ALSO
2m + 4m floor holes DO NOT have that issue at all

its just the 1m ones

[prisma kraken]

*in your observation with a limited experiment

[unborn ermine]

Limited my ass

I did multiple tests

[prisma kraken]

i'm just saying that it might be that 2 & 4m floorholes do exhibit the problem but you didn't see it b/c it changed the timing in your testbed

[unborn ermine]

The standard container test, feeding a container from another and looping.
and the practical test I just mentioned, which was fixing my production.

Oh no

They WERE THE SAME

[prisma kraken]

i'm not trying to be a jerk about it, its just that I'm starting to think that the problem is really pushing any belt/lift at full speed

[unborn ermine]

Its a % of the throughput not a specific amount, its why its less noticable with slower belts.

also 1000% compounded by hardware limits

[prisma kraken]

i'm just taking the scientific devil's advocate stance of 'lack of observation does not prove lack of existence'

[unborn ermine]

Test it yourself then if you want to do this so much

[prisma kraken]

i have better things to do like fixing all the belts i have running at full speed 😄

[unborn ermine]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/6722c33dddb9d97e0720a8d0

[prisma kraken]

i've seen the problem before, yeah in update 8

[unborn ermine]

This is the general test that showed it off.

[wary rapids]

how dare they make bugged floor holes

[prisma kraken]

i have a feeling i know what's going on there, but it'll be a while before i get to testing it

but bug reports like that would have a lot more credibility with the devs if the last sentence in them about something unrelated were actually true

[hard meadow]

Does anybody know how many rotors you can make with 450 iron

I made crazy amount of iron and thats the rest I have

But i'm only good at working backwards not forawards

[wary rapids]

i can do that math but i make less math errors when i dont do math.

[prisma kraken]

well, with base recipes, 8/min take 90 iron/min

so 5x8 = 40, 5x90 = 450

[hard meadow]

Well at least now I know what to use

[prisma kraken]

the steel and copper rotor recipes are a lot better than the base recipe

[hard meadow]

Yeah

But I basicaly just started a world with a friend and we are building it in a non ideal place for steel

I dought there is coal nearby

Well... lemmie check

[prisma kraken]

well, to a point, if you're using steel or aluminum rod to make what's needed for the base recipe, the calculus changes

[hard meadow]

Yeah of course

[prisma kraken]

if you're doing that though, it's probably for a huge nuclear build

[hard meadow]

Well if I need a crap ton of screws I know what to do now

[prisma kraken]

you can actually also use iron wire + iron pipe to make iron-only rotors w/ the steel rotor recipe

[hard meadow]

I used an alt recipe to make the iron ingots

Yeah iron pipes can be pretty useful

[prisma kraken]

i personally favor copper rotor at this point for its compactness, but its always a coin toss for me as to which recipe makes sense to use

[wary rapids]

ive seen some build where the entire floor of a room is screws. it looks good.

[prisma kraken]

the number of rotors you need in the game is actually quite small, even with lofty elevator goals

so any of the recipes aren't going to be huge expenditures or savings

[hard meadow]

Remember you cant screw without a rod (at first)

[wary rapids]

yes but you shouldnt use 450 iron for rotors with base recipes.

[hard meadow]

Yeah but I'm tired of just handcrafting them 🤷‍♂️

[hard meadow]

Meh why not

[prisma kraken]

gotcha. automate. don't hand craft

[hard meadow]

Yeah

Ive just been being lasy

[wary rapids]

my motor land with 10 motors per min. is totally over built. i will finnaly put it to good use making turbo motors. one mouth later.

[hard meadow]

I litterly made this world like 5 days ago

[hard meadow]

Ill probably repoupose it later for motors

[wary rapids]

everyone over builds the first time they do somthing.

[hard meadow]

My first 1.0 world was at turbofuel and I made a big plant

[hard meadow]

No such thing as overbuilding

[hard meadow]

Its not my first playthrogh tho more like 6th

[hard meadow]

Teir 4?

[wary rapids]

yeah

[hard meadow]

Nice

[wary rapids]

pahse 4

im not dyslexic i just type badly

[hard meadow]

Fr

Do you do load balancing or manifold perferibly?

[wary rapids]

i do math in order to not make balancers.

and i get rid of material so it doesnt make endless loops

[hard meadow]

Load balancers just take up so much space I feel like

[wary rapids]

you kind of have to make them in factrio.

[hard meadow]

I havnt really played factorio

I got the demo but got confused

[wary rapids]

you can make belt compresors to merge empty belts onto full ones.

[hard meadow]

Ik

[wary rapids]

but i dont think you need to to that unless your facotry is very big.

my freind plays facotrio the adda a entire new game with the space age update.

killing bugs is fun.

[hard meadow]

Just go outside

[wary rapids]

but the factory must grow

[pale mango]

.4 away from an anuerism

[wary rapids]

should do fuel in one step. to patch that.

[pale mango]

its a some new coal powered generators I installed but I forgot to wait for them to fill lol

[wary rapids]

im makeing the radio control units at last

and im eating the full 480

maths.

time to route more bauite to the factory. for more stuff and things.

[wide veldt]

The satisfactory employee can carry at a minimum 15 Empire State buildings

[patent blaze]

An inventory of nuclear pasta weighs way way more than just 15 empire state buildings

One teaspoon weighs as much as mount everest

[wide veldt]

#satisfactory message

[wide veldt]

#screenshots message

[patent blaze]

I’d recommend approximating the volume of pasta and then multiplying it by the real-life density of it

[robust raptor]

I did a whole bunch more maths for all the vehicles, here's some plots for distance vs throughput of all transport methods

What's particularly interesting to me is that trucks are theoretically an excellent option for the medium-range 0.5-1.5km range where trains are pretty unwieldy to use and consume a lot more power than trucks

However, at >2km, trains definitely become the more feasible and scalable option since you can reuse track on a global rail network, trains are a lot more scalable and you don't have to worry about long-distance truck pathing issues

Using 2 trains instead of 1 per station has a massive impact on the throughput and maximum range of trains, especially for 100 stack items

If you're interested in looking at all the tables and data, here:

Note that the throughput of trucks and tractors in the graph is the theoretical max throughput from trucks / tractors travelling direct distance max speed, so it's more of an upper bound than an actual realisable value in the game (unless you build perfectly flat and straight roads for trucks / tractors)

[prisma kraken]

your numbers for tractor/truck are too high

[robust raptor]

Well, that's an upper bound, assuming trucks / tractors travel at max speed in a straight line on flat ground throughout their journey

[prisma kraken]

empirically, i'm finding them to be much lower

[robust raptor]

Obviously, that isn't gonna happen in game, so maybe divide that number by 2/3 or 2 in a gameplay setting

[prisma kraken]

yeah, of course, but it isn't the upper bound that's useful, its the lower bound

[robust raptor]

The lower bound is 0

[prisma kraken]

well the upper bound is infinity if you wanna play that game 😉

[robust raptor]

Depending on how many turns and slopes you have on your route, you can probably divide the upper bound by 1.5-4 to get the truck throughput

The upper bound is 2 belts actually

You can't get faster than the I/O rate of the truck station

[prisma kraken]

yeah, true. you can however do better than 2 belts per train car

[robust raptor]

You can't

[prisma kraken]

use 2 stations for pickup & 2 for dropoff

[robust raptor]

The station has an apparent max I/O of 2 belts, but the actual max throughput is lower than that because of the 27.08s loading / unloading time

[prisma kraken]

only really comes into practical use if you are moving 500 stack items

[robust raptor]

Here's the maximum throughput of a single wagon

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i know the math inside and out.

[robust raptor]

So you should know that the max throughput of a wagon / cargo platform is less than 2 belts

[prisma kraken]

if you pick up and drop off at multiple stations, you can go higher

[robust raptor]

That's probably by a different metric

But the transfer rate per pair of freight platforms is still capped at somewhere below 2 belts

[prisma kraken]

right, asymptotic to 2400/min for longer trip duratoins before being capped by car capacity

[robust raptor]

I'm not doing the calculations per train, but you can definitely maximise the utilisation of a train by making it travel between multiple pairs of freight platforms

[prisma kraken]

i know, i'm doing that in practice 🙂

[robust raptor]

Yeah, definitely only really comes into practice for the higher stack items though

[prisma kraken]

i'm going all-in on the trainifold design pattern in my current playthrough

its working out pretty well so far

the tricky part of it is all my factories need to be designed to draw at even rates from the train station platforms

[robust raptor]

Yeah, I imagine it gets hard when you're pulling max throughput (~1.2-1.8 MK6 belts per freight platform) from your train stations

The funny thing is that I did all this maths but I'm not even close to pulling even a single MK6 belt from my 1-4 trains

[prisma kraken]

what it means is that the theme of each factory is 4 identical prod lines

[robust raptor]

But it's useful to see that trains have much higher throughput capacity than they seem and that having multiple trains per station can be very helpful

I pretty much just have the maths for multiple stations in one route left to do

[prisma kraken]

one thing i'm exploring now is how to marshall the lower volume high-end parts since they're such low volume, burning an entire 4-car train on each seems a bit wasteful

[robust raptor]

You could use drones

[prisma kraken]

in some cases, yes, but some parts are just high enough volume that drones aren't the most practical

good example: heatsinks

i'm shortly going to be starting a bake-off of different strategies for dealing with the high-end

what i sort of like the idea of doing is using the train filtering to cherry pick items for drop-off out of sushi trainloads

i'm unsure if i should do that with items on pick-up or drop-off or both. That's what i wish to investigate

[robust raptor]

I finally finished all the maths for multiple stations on one stop and it basically says that adding more stops to one train route has a pretty noticeable impact on max range and throughput, but adding more trains to one station is very effective at countering that

Funny how adding more trains to a single station is so effective at solving lots of problems

[jolly furnace]

at what distance does belting become bad?

ive been googlign and it seems like most people say 1km but Idr know what thta number is based on

im trying to make my first turbofuel plant and I dont know if I should belt my compacted coal or use a truck

[deft lichen]

Well, never, everything starts and ends on a belt

It's merely a question of when is it too annoying for you personally

If you don't want to bother with trains or trucks, then just go for a long belt

[jolly furnace]

Im personally leaning towards belting since the longest belt will be 600m, but I also have not touched trucks yet. I kinda got a bad taste from trying to use the sugar cubes.

[deft lichen]

Train tracks have the huge benefit of being reusable, provided you build properly signaled double tracks

Expanding a global railway network is faster and less annoying than building long belts everywhere

[robust raptor]

Trains really start to get good at 2km and up

But you can use trains below that distance if you want to

[sly fjord]

The terrain in that location is far from flat

[robust raptor]

Belts are great up to ~500m, and trucks are pretty good in the intermediate 500m-1500m range if you're willing to deal with them

[jolly furnace]

hmm

[robust raptor]

In the image you sent, I'd say it's perfectly viable to belt everything there

Using a train for that distance would be a bit inconvenient and overkill

[jolly furnace]

ill try trucks and probably make a foundation highway in the sky

yeah i could probably belt it and it would take me the least amount of time

but I do want to try the trucks out and this seems like an opportunity

[sly fjord]

I would use trains on shorter distances than 2km, depends on multiple other factors.

But maybe not 600m

[robust raptor]

I would have done it in my rocky desert base if I didn't already have a ton of train stations

[vast jungle]

good luck and a lot of patience... you will need it 😄

[robust raptor]

I'm gonna be trying something potentially disastrous, a truck route on hilly terrain

[jolly furnace]

yeah i hope so

are trucks worse than the sugar cubes (in pathing)?

they use the same pathing and everything right?

[robust raptor]

Trucks have bigger capacity, travel faster and topple over a bit less easily

[vast jungle]

I think Trucks are also a bit more difficult to control... which doesn't mean the Cubes are easy... it got better with patches, early Trucks were difficult to keep straight on a road, especially because you don't have an analog stick to control them... "oh, a little bit too left... press right oh, now a little bit too right..."

[sly fjord]

I think trucks have little bigger turning radius

[vast jungle]

trucks in the Blue Crater???? Oh dear... than sounds.... ... ... ... "fun" 😉

[jolly furnace]

im prob just going to build a highway in the sky straight to the oil but

that will be painful and ugly AF

[vast jungle]

the Blue Crater is small enough just to use pipes and belts... no need for complicating things

especially when you have to put in foundations as roads, whats the advantage of Trucks?

unless its "because its a fun idea", which is nothing wrong

[jolly furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/playing-with-a-toy-truck-eric-cartman-south-park-season9ep2-s9e2-gif-22284538

yeah basically

belting is probably the sane thing to do

[vast jungle]

I build a large RF powerplant in the Crater... and putting in the belts/pipes was the easy part

still, will be an interesting experiment for you... watching trucks do strange things can be fun

[jolly furnace]

did you build it over the lake?

or somewhere else

[vast jungle]

its centered in the geothermal powerplant... but its a bit larger than the lake

[jolly furnace]

okay well I guess Idont have to worry about that 😆

[vast jungle]

its 24 Blueprints (each from 2 MK2 BPs) to produce 2400 Rocketfuel/min... and then 576 Fuel Generators in three layers

it was not that bad... both the generators (2x2) and the factories are made from BPs... in fact I had to rebuild the whole factory two times because of some small mistakes 😄

main issue was my limited inventory... and waiting until my DDs have enough Concrete (for the next batch of generators)

[past reef]

Thought motor is worse cause its 25% each bp?

[prisma kraken]

its ok to use long belts, and often preferable over trucks/tractors. where i personally draw the line is when belts are spanning more than one biome

[past reef]

But then I was through worse, 70 (14*5) mk2 bp for 5k rocket fuel

[vast jungle]

my "generators BP" contained the platform and the pipes below the generators... I think it was ~ 500 Concrete per BP... you run through the stacks of the DD FAST this way

[past reef]

Oh you tower the gens yeah

[prisma kraken]

in past game releases, people started to notice problems that were going across the map with belts they ran under the map and such and playing some belt welding tricks to reduce the cpu overhead

[vast jungle]

no, I still attached them horizontally... still, lots of concrete

#design-and-architecture message

[prisma kraken]

what i'm finding with vehicles is that when paths cross one another, you're inevitably going to have deadlocks if you leave the game running for long enough

[vast jungle]

best thing that can happen for a powerplant 😄

[prisma kraken]

yeah, or an aluminum factory. pain. much pain.

[vast jungle]

has anyone ever used trucks within a closed loop like the one in Aluminium? That sounds like super fun 😉

[prisma kraken]

i have a truck moving limestone to make quartz purification silica that feeds into an aluminum factory

[robust raptor]

That's why my new bad idea of using a truck to bring resources to my nuclear power plant can't possibly go wrong

[prisma kraken]

the number of times that thing has gone off the rails and screwed it up in the past few days is unbelievable

[vast jungle]

and you could fuel them with nuclear fuel rods!

[robust raptor]

Even better, the plutonium rods

[vast jungle]

"truck station of radioactive doom!"

[prisma kraken]

i've done it before. works good. make sure you automate iodine filters first 😄

[vast jungle]

still, making an Aluminium Plant depend on Trucks sounds crazy... these things are already a bit "volatile"...

[prisma kraken]

ngl, the truck stop was more radioactive than the rest of the nuclear plant

[robust raptor]

I decided to do a design where the overflow water gets used in other dedicated refineries so it can't jam up

[vast jungle]

imagine the truck station stuck because something bad was on the belt...

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, i'm a bit touched at times and stubborn

[vast jungle]

"have to repair it... hmm, better take half an inventory of iodine filters"

[robust raptor]

Yeah, I gotta build a dune desert north factory for all my personal equipment needs before tackling the nuclear plant

[vast jungle]

I know this "I will make this work" moments...

[prisma kraken]

honestly, i've moved all my vehicle paths around to avoid one another. at this point if stuff isn't stable, we're doing some cross country belting

[vast jungle]

I was doing all long range transportation with trains for a long time and recently added a lot of drones...

[prisma kraken]

i have plenty of trains and am adding drones as i find places for them to be of use. I just want some tractors rolling around for the sake of activity

[vast jungle]

I have built a few streets in the past, always thought about adding a few trucks for the look... unfortunately I built the streets to narrow, so they are "Explorer only"

[prisma kraken]

which isn't much use for delivery anymore

what's frustrating about vehicles is they work until they don't and you end up with a mess to undo

[vast jungle]

I REALLY dislike recording routes... it always feels that even straight foundation-paved streets become a rodeo ride

[prisma kraken]

also, when they deadlock, you hop in one and even without moving, both vehicles un-deadlock... its like c'mon, couldn't we just have them ghost through each other?

[prisma kraken]

that was fixed in update 8

[vast jungle]

they ghost back on the path when they fall off, I have no clue why they deadlock

[vast jungle]

a bit, but not really... the keyboard controls are just not precise enough to get the truck straight on the road... its too easy to over/undershoot when changing direction

[prisma kraken]

its the dumbest thing, its like CSS intentionally makes them unusable for anything more than a milkrun for ore

[vast jungle]

I would like to have a keyboard control to "lock in" the direction along the foundation I am driving on... to make straight parts easier.
(lets not get started that you have to record the whole route in one... a mistake and you have to start over)

[sly fjord]

I wish you could place nodes or move them manually

[prisma kraken]

you can. its called using a converter

[vast jungle]

"truck node nudging"

[sly fjord]

Or even say, "these nodes are part of those two different routes"

[prisma kraken]

oh, thought you meant mineral node. it's late MB

one thing that would be nice is if the path nodes showed up in different colors to match the vehicle's paint job

[sly fjord]

So if two trucks routes, drive the same route for half of their route, then you won't have to double then up.

That too

[prisma kraken]

it would be a QoL thing so that you knew which nodes you were editing. but that's a moot point. if you have 2 paths close enough to be confused, you'll end up with them deadlocking

[vast jungle]

or just a ways to "select current truck route"

[vast jungle]

even if they go in the same direction?

[prisma kraken]

even if. just leave the game running for 12 hrs

it really isn't an if, but when

at least in my experience, idk how people build street networks and have anything ever work right

[vast jungle]

this makes me even more lucky I did not even tried trucks/cubes in 1.0 😄

[prisma kraken]

my conclusion is they don't

the tractors work pretty well and the truck works as well as you'd expect of something that handle's like a 3 ton 1958 lincoln continental

[robust raptor]

I've never tried trucks and I'm terrified of what will happen when I finally do

[prisma kraken]

really as advice to anyone, use a tractor wherever you don't need the truck's capacity, they're just smaller and easier to work with

[vast jungle]

so better have more tractors than one truck?

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure how well multiple vehicles on the same route even would work, lol. there's limits to my insanity

i think it best to keep routes to a single vehicle. if you need the truck's capacity, use it, but don't go there unless you prove the tractor can't cut it

[vast jungle]

maybe I should just add trucks to my little streets to watch them and laugh about them

trucks as stress relieve from work

[fringe seal]

they don't have dynamic pathfinding either ime
if you have full 2 way street you can do multiple vehicles on the same route but at that point trains just seem safer / more powerful / easier than doing multiple vehicles on the same route

[unborn ermine]

So a neat little thing that happened with my rubber/plastic loop train that has 2 spots.
the second station that gets the remainder rubber, it empties EXACTLY as the train completes its loop

and so far its running smoothly, my HMF and the sinks here.
Just need to make my whole ass ACU factory and start droning the HMF over.

I managed to have one smart splitter flipped and that wwas screwing up the whole HMF factory

[sly fjord]

I think multiple trucks or tractors on the same route, is probably less problematic than them on two different routes, that drive on the same roads/paths.

but dont know.

[vast jungle]

so in the end you need MORE infrastructure for trucks than for belts 😉

[sly fjord]

The trucks I have used, have driven on bare terrain.
Trucks/tractors look cooler than belts.

[prisma kraken]

it kind of works better than you'd expect it would, right?

[unborn ermine]

It evened out eventually so it wasnt as

[prisma kraken]

i was pretty wary of the design pattern at first, now it makes a ton more sense to me

[unborn ermine]

but its supposedly sending 525-545/min material between the two rubber platforms.
Which from the 1300/min base minus the 240/min rubber, seems about right

Also making me think "do I even need buffers now?"

[prisma kraken]

yeah, leave them though

[unborn ermine]

figuring as much, just in case I fudge something up

[prisma kraken]

i think its really important to have stuff burst into/out of the train stations at max speed

[vast jungle]

the only thing annoying with it is the even larger buffer... but usually that is not a big issue

[robust raptor]

I'm really tempted to go for the max nuclear setup now that I've planned it all out and it seems somewhat doable

[unborn ermine]

anything is "doable"
you just need to know your tolerance for pain

[vast jungle]

"max zero tolerance nuclear build"

[torpid briar]

Instant scrap. Why not? 🙂 And create blueprint block "AluminiumIngot-300". I want to do

[robust raptor]

2100 uranium / min, 630GW gross power, 252 reactors / 101 overclocked reactors, sinking the plutonium rods

I'm not gonna use any of the pure recipes because I hate refineries

[vast jungle]

you can do a 300/min block for Sloppy-Alumina/Electrode-Scrap too... always nice to have self-contained building blocks

I am thinking about how to "rush" MK3-designer and MK6-belts when I hit Tier 9 (just a matter of waiting for the factory to deliver all items)... Oil Diamonds=>Time Crystals feel like a natural choice, and an Iron based Ficsit-Ingot sounds also relatively straightforward...

[heavy gust]

You can do better, im on 231 reactors with 1155 uranium

[robust raptor]

I'm sinking the plutonium rods

Don't really feel like dumping the plutonium waste in a corner of the world

[heavy gust]

If only ficsonium was useable....

[torpid briar]

hhmmm yes. Interesting But bigger block

[vast jungle]

I like not to use Sulfur... but yes, the Coke production is external

[warm bane]

The nice thing about sloppy/electrode is the waste water management

[vast jungle]

with some OC/UC you can do the whole loop in 3 Refineries

[warm bane]

You have a 90% clean+210% waste Sloppy feeding 400% worth of electrode
So you can go as low as 4 refinery for 600 bauxite into 600 ingots (using pure ingots)

I like to not overclock and do in it 4+4 refineries

[vast jungle]

I did split it again in half, so its 45%+105% and 200%

and there is still space left for the Constructors for the Pure Aluminium Ingot

[warm bane]

Ah, yeah, if you want to fit it all in a blueprint before mk3, you need to OC

[vast jungle]

you can do 4 Refineries in a MK2 block

[warm bane]

But not 8

[vast jungle]

five is theoretically possible too, but the belt/pipework is a bit clippy/messy I think 😉

MK3 should make 5 refineries easy

(but not 8 of course)

[past reef]

but if you can deal with 600 bauxite with 2 mk2 bp there's no real need to do mk3

[torpid briar]

Also I have sloppy block "AluminiumIngot-180" 🙂 I use block logic now. I want share final blueprint on scim in future

[vast jungle]

Decorations!

[warm bane]

Real
I cannot do any blueprint if I cannot add nice walkways/wires/pipes as needed
It just doesn't feel right

[vast jungle]

Plastic/Rubber is also funny... I have a (linear) set of 4 BPs that make a 270/min Rubber (or Plastic) factory... but want to redo it with the MK3 to become a nice 2x2 BP cube...

stackable and decorated if possible

also most likely his time not with DPF... the output rate of DPF is nice for recycling, but Blender is less complications

[warm bane]

Yeah, I have a (admittedly not very space efficient) pretty clean fuel diluter BP, which is a 1 to 1 refinery into blender (clocked at 80% to match the numbers)

Less pipings mean less pressure points I might need to troubleshoot

[vast jungle]

the 100/min output is really annoying with its prime-factor 5

HOR production introduce a factor of 4... Recycling want a 3... (and everything has x10)

DPF is so nice with its 30/60 ratio ^^

[torpid briar]

oh I made "block 1 plastic refinery + 1 rubber refinery". Just need load plastic and rubber to machines manually 1st time and it will works

[vast jungle]

I made my factory without loops to skip this "onboarding"

[warm bane]

Honestly thanks to the dimensional depot it's not too annoying to prime systems

[vast jungle]

you can add the priming material to the BP itself... just prime the BP and save it

I have done this with the "empty canisters" of the DPF blueprint

[torpid briar]

Oh wow I didn't know ooops 😀

[vast jungle]

EXTRA useful with the DD

[robust raptor]

Ooh that's a really neat feature

[vast jungle]

I only learned about this here in the discord in #design-and-architecture 😄

[warm bane]

Btw you can do the same with recipes, clocking and shards
Especially useful with generators

[unborn ermine]

I learned about it watching a streamer, they had a BP with primed bio burner array for power on the go.

[frosty owl]

That sort of stuff is how I learned that one can make blueprints that can't be built in vanilla SF without having "no cost" on 😅
(I was experimenting with ISCs full of items)

[vast jungle]

a full ISC should fit into the inventory, right?

[violet halo]

It sounds like there were multiples in that experiment.

[vast jungle]

okay, that breaks the (unmodded) inventory quite quickly...

[frosty owl]

Yeah, the number of ISCs was the issue

[livid turret]

I like to do the 2x1 refinery set for recycled plastic or rubber, seed the one ref in the BP with 30 plastic/rubber and link it to the input of the other 2, and then merge and split the output of the other 2 and you can have a nice loop that consume 90 fuel to make 90 plastic/rubber. It has an average footprint of 4x4

[north mauve]

Those are common for crashed pod hunting too (if you don't litter the entire map with power towers I guess)

[warm bane]

Just dump an APA, it's 500MW without any input or connecting needed

Build it, connect, open, collect, deconstruct
Only takes a couple of seconds

[north mauve]

APA?

[warm bane]

Alien Power Augmenter
The thing that uses 10 sloops for power generation

[north mauve]

Oh, it just EXISTS with energy? Interesting.

[warm bane]

Yes
It's 10 sloops, a couple of fluctuators, a couple mid-game components you can pretty easily find in crash sites
Doesn't need any inputs for 500 MW (+10% of your grid but it's irrelevant here), and since you need at most 400MW to open a pod it's just extremely convenient
You just need to have done a bit of exploring but you can get it pretty early

[north mauve]

The max is 420MW, but yes still under 500

[robust raptor]

Oh gosh, max nuclear is gonna require more than twice the number of buildings in my world currently

Is there a way to check if your world is cpu limited like factorio's ups?

[outer vale]

the stat unit console command might do it? IIRC that breaks down how much time the CPU and GPU are using per frame

[prisma kraken]

or stat fps gives you a smaller fps readout

[outer vale]

yeah but that doesn't break down CPU vs GPU time does it?

[jade forge]

Hello fellow Pioneers! Satisfactory Factories (a factory management and logistics tool) has been updated! More info of what's changed can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1h0h81d/satisfactory_factories_v02_has_been_released/

[robust raptor]

Also, will placing about 1700 buildings in the swamp lag my game a lot

[hoary quail]

what is the update about?

[prisma kraken]

woohoo! finally solved the case of the missing concrete!

i had a belt that was cross-connected between two adjacent splitters for parallel prod lines - couldn't figure out why one train car was always showing up at the sinking station empty

[jade forge]

Many many fixes and new features, all in the post!

[hoary quail]

cool

[prisma kraken]

does the tool understand sloops and allow setting of machine clocks?

i'm looking around it it for that

[jade forge]

Not yet, but it’s being actively worked on https://github.com/satisfactory-factories/application/issues/11

We’re still in the design phase on how to best visualise it

[prisma kraken]

if i could click here and have a dialog open with a checkbox for 'sloop?' along with a dial for clock that ups the clock & decreases the machine count while holding production constant, i think that is what would work really nicely

i like overall the way the tool works, i have some criticisms of how un-compact the display of info is, but it's seeming like a promising start

[pallid knoll]

What are the best places for modular factory's, I need oil for power but also rescources for space elevator parts

[prisma kraken]

flat land or up in the air near resources - you're question is pretty vague, lol

[pallid knoll]

I unlocked trains, now I want to build multiple factory's but I don't know where to place them best, my starter factory is at Rock Dessert, But i want to leave this factory as is and build multiple other factory's for space elevator parts

[robust raptor]

Frankly every corner of the rocky desert is good for a mini factory

[pallid knoll]

I have this rn

[robust raptor]

Northeast and northwest have coal, iron, copper and limestone, southwest has lots of iron, copper and limestone with oil pretty close, southeast has iron, copper, caterium and limestone which is good for computers

But if you're asking for a good place for another factory, look at the resources at the place and if that place has the resources you need, you can build another factory there

And use trains or miscellaneous to bring in resources you don't have there, like oil products or aluminium

[pallid knoll]

So like build a oil factory and move the oil products between factory's?

[prisma kraken]

its a good start... for trains, i find the initial building of your first loop to be a lot harder than successive rail expansions. probably your first goal should be to get some type of circuit going around RD or over to north forest, crater lakes or the oil (gold) coast. which you choose really depends on what you need next

[robust raptor]

Yeah, oil products are good for moving by train since oil is generally pretty far away and oil products are needed in large amounts

The rocky desert and surrounding biomes has enough resources that you don't really need a global loop to beat the game

[north mauve]

You place factories where you can source as many local ingredients as is convenient.

[prisma kraken]

probably pushing the line down the coast to the islands oil is what you'd get the most reward for effort on

[north mauve]

It's great to have a serious train network, but it's better to not need to pull everything from trains when you can build right next to half or more of the ingredients needed for a target item/min

But also, build rocket fuel at the western beach oil.

[prisma kraken]

how bad is the logistics for that on like mk4 tech?

[pallid knoll]

haven't unlocked rocked fuel

[north mauve]

1. Plast/rubber fac at oil
2. Rocket fuel power plant at western oil beach (I am fueling my entire factory with a SINGLE oil node)
3. Build factories where they can source local ingredients

[north mauve]

Build turbo fuel then, and turn it into rocket fuel later

[north mauve]

What do you mean? I built it the second I had access to the right RF alts

[north mauve]

The whole fac takes like two belts and six pipes, and outputs 35GW

[fringe seal]

nitro fuel?

[north mauve]

Yes

#screenshots message This but double everything

300 crude -> 1200 rocket fuel

That's 288 fuel gens by the way

Maybe trim the last four and leave the excess for jetpacks/drones

[hushed kettle]

please tell me non overclocked because i might be making way too much

[north mauve]

Correct. I OC'd half that at 200%

[hushed kettle]

nice

[prisma kraken]

i mean, how much of a headache was getting the sulfur & coal out there

[hushed kettle]

still way too much but at least it's manageable

[prisma kraken]

i guess the nitrogen means you have to be at phase 4 already

[amber umbra]

I built a long rail line from west oil to the NW corner of the map to the north oil. Has sulfur, coal, oil, nitrogen along that line. Not difficult to build since flat but does take a while.

Maybe they mean that concept.

[prisma kraken]

i built my rf at blue crater, starting with 40 gw of blended tf and then upgrading later to 120gw of rf

avoiding the compacted coal route for it all gave me a lot of steel for hmf's

[hushed kettle]

if you're talking to me, I'm finishing polishing everything up for phase 4 but I like planning ahead

the fact is I'm making 1800 crude into fuel so i really would rather not have to place 1728 generators later

[north mauve]

I just ran belts. I think I actually have two belts of something, probably sulfur? Or maybe I had two belts of both. I don't remember, I haven't been back in ages.

Anyway I grabbed the sulfur from east of the beach and coal from south and east. Maybe 1km or less? It wasn't that hard.

[prisma kraken]

really it was a question as to how logistically difficult it was to bring resources needed for rf to the islands, but i answered my own question when i realized that for rf, you probably already have drones 😄

[north mauve]

I actually didn't have drones yet when I built it out

My first drone was on the top of the RF tower bringing in aluminum packages

[prisma kraken]

i know where all the resources if i were to build fuel power there are, its just doing stuff like running belts and trainlines in that region isn't something i've tackled yet

that's stuff you really don't know until you're doing it, and the reason i asked

[north mauve]

I don't have trains there at all, just because all the resources were "close enough"

I should replace my coal truck with 700m of rail just for the lulz

[prisma kraken]

one of the things i'm trying to figure out is how to get a ramp up into pink forest from somewhere in that region w/o resorting to a spiral

[amber umbra]

Yea seems like a common issue. I just belted it down since infinite lifts.

[north mauve]

Gooood luck. I just have a massive spiral over the void

[prisma kraken]

i wish they had laid a pretty natural path for that along the clifftops with the map changes they've made since no one ever really built stuff there before anyway

it may actually exist and i haven't found it yet

[north mauve]

It's annoying because the best coal is in a pit surrounded by pillars and cliffs. I'm not even sure if a truck can get in and out of there without a serious amount of ramps.

I could have built a huge ugly train station in the sky but belts are fun. They can run through the forest in the valley and be ugly all the want, I needed my energy asap

[violet halo]

#screenshots message
@halcyon field leave it there, if you choose nothing it stays out of your list.

[halcyon field]

i already re rolled two weeks ago, showed it for the funny.

[quick gorge]

Yeah those two bio coals are a peak

[north mauve]

They're great, they make me disable them every time I touch satis calc

[pallid knoll]

So for a power plant just bring these together with water?

Or is it to much coal and oil? I can bring it to one place and move it to another place with the train

[north mauve]

It sounds like half the work on each end to move both to the middle, but it's probably twice the work as moving just one to the other.

Also there's sulfur and nitrogen nearby for future fuel purposes

[pallid knoll]

Hmm I dom't know what to do first... I have to complete phase 3 now but at the current place running out of power and coal to power the factory, I could switch to fuel power but then I need to build another power station

[north mauve]

It's fine to build temporary fuel power

[neat crest]

Ok helpful tip for Recycled Rubber scaling. You can easily separate the process into 3 blueprints

1st blueprint: 60 crude oil + 200 water -> 20 "prime" rubber & 160 diluted fuel

2nd blueprint:
• 1 Recycled Plastic @ 77.77%
• 1 Recycled plastic @ 100%
• 1 Recycled rubber @55.55%
The 2nd print will consume the "prime" rubber and its own rubber within its own loop, and output Plastic only

Then, the third print is the remaining fuel + plastic for 3 Recycled Rubber refineries at 100% for 180 rubber.

[proud crypt]

What would be the maximum item flow in satis, if you would max out everything.

[livid turret]

You can replace 2nd and 3rd with 2 mirrored blueprints of 3 refineries working at 100% just take into account the ratio 2 to 1. For instance 2 recycled plastic to one recycled rubber, seed 30 plastic in the BP, connect 90 fuel and you get a nice loop that produces 90 plastic

And sink the polymer or make more rubber

[neat crest]

Yeah but I don't want any plastic in the end is what makes my setup different

[livid turret]

It's an example, replace plastic with rubber and rubber with plastic and you get the 90 rubber

That's the beauty of that design

No fiddling with OC or UC, just stamp, fuel and profit

[molten lintel]

is it ok/better to combine MK1 pipes and MK2 in this example, or is it better to just do everything with mk2? :
5 water extractors outputting 120/min using mk1 pipes.
side 1: 2 of them combine into 240/min mk1 pipe junction
side 2: 2 of them combine into 240/min mk1 pipe junction
2 240 junctions combine into a single central junction
1 120/min goes into that central junction
combined output should max an mk2 pipe from that junction, right?

The "idea" that came to mind is that having mk1 pipes would help reach max flow rate on the 240 and 120 systems before joining the mk2 pipe/junction.

is this even a thing or am I just tripping?

[livid turret]

You can save the hassle and just combine them with MK2, I'm always using MK1 for the input section at consumers and MK2 for producers. No way to tell if this helps or not

What I do know is that too many machines on the same line works better if you loop the pipes

Like 12 refineries producing 480 HOR get the last 2 idle on a MK2 unless you loop them

[neat crest]

3 blueprints, 2 inputs, 360 rubber. yum yum delicious (+3 structural blueprints for the platforms, pillar corners, and concrete pillars)

[hard meadow]

Jist found out (without somersloops even) the most iron ingots you can get from one pure node is 2400. Fun! Dont judge me taking the pic on my phone

[steel knot]

Are there any clever ways to distribute small stack counts of fuel for drone distribution? I have a bunch of plutonium rods but don’t need to fill entire inventories with the stuff for 3-4 drone ports

[unborn ermine]

I like using Alt+Print Screen key to do game capture screenshots.
Captures the active window to clipboard.

[steel knot]

If you don’t have a print screen key, I think shift+windows+S works

There’s also P in game for in game photo mode

[golden smelt]

should I make the 630000MW nuclear power plant

[ruby blade]

The moment you ask this question there only is one answer.

[golden smelt]

true and real

I just need someone to approve of my plan

[cunning pasture]

[jolly furnace]

this should be fine right?

[wary rapids]

sure to feed from that manifold at that level yes.

aviod bottom feeding in large setups.

[jolly furnace]

bottom feeding?

[wary rapids]

yeah dont feed from a floor hole

[jolly furnace]

oh you meant from the floor

okay thanks

[wary rapids]

I went with the alumnina soultion recipe becuase of a math error in the silica i would need but the scalcebitly and easy of use of these modules has been S tier.

they can be over clocked to process 480 bauxite per mine into 720 scrap

[unborn ermine]

That moment when you forget you needed to make automated wire at 75/min for a plan.
I guess im going to ship my excess 862.5/min iron + some more over to my purification plant to get some iron pipe + wire action

[bleak ivy]

is there a way i can specify that a recipe is slooped on satisfactorytools?

need to do calcs with doubled byproducts

[unborn ermine]

Best you can do, is adding a product manually to make it seem slooped.

[next shoal]

So... My coal belt is getting stucked every now and then on the first coal generator, but the second one flows as smooth as butter. 120 coal per minute are entering here. I'm using the 3 extractor/8 generator setup

Why is the belt getting stucked only on the first one? I don't get it

[past reef]

Thats a manifold thing, you effectively try to put 60 pm into the generator but it can only consume 15

[next shoal]

Ohhhhhm I see. Sorry, dumb question from my part

Uh... Where did my tractor go?

[amber umbra]

@next shoal Kinda looks like it fell through the ground. I’ve heard of people using SCIM to remove things that teleported to the map
Origin point. Kinda looks like that.

[unborn ermine]

Yeah that looks like coords 0, 0, 0,
You will either need SCIM, or to go under the map yourself.

[next shoal]

Uh, you told me it was a manyfolds thing, but my other power plant is the same structure and the belt doesn't get stuck at all

[wary rapids]

I like to build those coal plants to belt speed then i can do one test with a belt going into and out off with a container and know it's done. you should see ever coal generator moveing very slowly with every one being full and staying full.

with the main input belt running at belt speed

[main shuttle]

i went back & picked up every single tiny little blue leaf in the red forest. 13k of them

[robust raptor]

Throughput vs distance graph for 500 stack items

To complete the set, here's throughput vs distance for 50 stack items

And here's all 4 graphs in a single image

[vast jungle]

very informative 🙂

[hushed kettle]

this was needed tysm

[robust raptor]

Some caveats:

• The calculations for trucks and tractors are more so an upper bound than a realistic in-game value, as they assume that the truck / tractor travels at full speed in straight line distance on level ground with no interference. Divide the values by like 2-5 depending on route conditions.
• It's helpful to see the throughput values calculated for trains as an ideal case upper bound, as a real system with turns, intersections, train-train interactions and elevation changes will likely reduce throughput. The calculations for trains assume:
  • Flat ground straight line distance transportation
  • Single train transporting items between a pair of two stations
  • No slowdown at intersections (i.e. grade separated intersections)
  • No interference between trains
    You'll need to lower the throughput estimate a fair bit if the train track has lots of turns, elevation changes, slowdown from path signal intersections or the network has lots of trains that lead to slowdown / congestion.
• The calculations for trains include an approximation for acceleration / deceleration of trains. This approximation is not quite the exact acceleration / deceleration of a satisfactory train, but the values obtained should be close enough for most purposes.

If you're interested in checking out all the transportation maths for yourself and want to play around with the calculators / tables, here's the excel sheet I used to do all the maths

[prisma kraken]

thanks, you might want to ping someone on the wiki team and see if they'd like the images

[robust raptor]

Is there anyone I can ping?

I'm not really familiar with the wiki team

[remote flame]

I might keep this as a reference actually, I was just about to do some testing of my own too on a save, would be cool to see it matching it potentially! haha
I ain't wiki tho, I just enjoy rocketfuel too much haha

[prisma kraken]

i think, Jinn is fielding that one for me 🙂

oh, boo

@deft lichen can you help? ^^^

probably in bed atm

[robust raptor]

Empirical testing would be very helpful to see how well the calculations match to reality

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i really don't trust the theoretical math on trains as a starting point. too much experience with the game not matching the theory very well 🙂

[robust raptor]

Travel time does match the maths

[prisma kraken]

if you'd like to do some testing on it all, i have a pretty good rail network going with lots of stuff moving around

[robust raptor]

It's travel distance where the maths will probably deviate from reality

[prisma kraken]

i think if you wanted to actually model the game with better bounds, what is better to do is to list trips as average trip time +/- variance rather than by distance

[robust raptor]

I do have all the travel times calculated

I just apply a simple distance approximation to the travel time

The travel times should be exact

[prisma kraken]

yeah, thing is trip times aren't constant

[robust raptor]

Yeah, but the required travel time is constant

It's probably helpful to account for variance when comparing to real trip times

[prisma kraken]

this is why

[robust raptor]

Yeah, if you have something like that, I imagine train-train interference starts becoming a more significant factor

[prisma kraken]

it is more of a factor than you'd think, unless rails are 100% isolated, signalling causes the trains to pause/slowdown in unpredictable places

[robust raptor]

I haven't really seen slowdown at regular signals though

Unless you mean by other trains, then yeah

[prisma kraken]

it happens if you watch closely

grab a cuppa and sit watching the choos for a half hour

i use trains pretty heavily and have been watching their behavior at this point for a few 1000 hrs (shame). There's quite a bit of variance in their trip time

this freight platform accepts 1125/min quickwire on a simple pick-up/drop-off loop (because i'm not using it for anything yet... the fact that it is reporting a value different from 1125 +/- 1 shows you that there's at least a % point or two of variance

[unborn ermine]

Yeah... I was looking at my save in SCIM and just noticed this one is getting up there ||428h 00m 43s||
this long and finally getting to complex-er trains

[prisma kraken]

if i look after the next drop off, that number will probably be back down around 1125, but sometimes you get more, sometimes less. to use trains effectively in the game, you have to count on that sort of variance in shipment

yeah, next shipment

[unborn ermine]

Yeah my new train setup kiiiiinda balances out over time with the station info.
its doing what it needs to at least
gotta have like 100+ data points to get a solid number tbh

[prisma kraken]

the game really needs some better stats and analytics

truly frustrates me

[prisma kraken]

so i found a really long standing issue that i had been trying to find for a few weeks earlier

[unborn ermine]

Which one was that?

[prisma kraken]

have a concrete factory that makes 4x1080/min and loads it into a train to take to hmf's which eat around 950 of it and then the train drops off the rest at home base for storage & sinking

one of the train cars was always empty when pulling into the sink station

made very little sense to me, stats on the train station looked like 1080 out and 1080 in

like the concrete was just evaporating or something

turns out i had a belt that jumped splitters in the hmf build

[unborn ermine]

Jumped splitters?

[prisma kraken]

like it connected to the wrong splitter

[unborn ermine]

OH that bullshit

I had that happen way more than it should

[prisma kraken]

but i was thinking it was on the production instead of consumption side

[remote flame]

@robust raptor pulling the maths out of the main satisfactory chat haha

So the full standard Rocket Fuel method is quite literally, turbofuel to Rocketfuel (no alt recipes except for diluted fuel, compacted coal).
The standard recipes got used because it is the most healthy all-rounder for oil efficiency and sulfur efficiency

Assuming you have all mk3 miners and max belt speeds, you get the potential resources (and pushing the limit of what you call a 'local' resource node)
The only way to make it bigger is to tap the oil nodes near the swamp or train in far more sulfur which is quite the distance

[robust raptor]

Ah I see, you're pulling the sulfur from the abyss cliffs

I somehow completely missed out on that vein, probably because I'm planning to use that for max nuclear

[remote flame]

yeah nuclear I've always been a bit half-commited with. Always end up sinking the plutonium rods lol, can't find it in me to do a gigantic factory for ficsonium

[robust raptor]

I'm excited to go for max nuclear but I'm hoping it won't slow my computer to a crawl

[unborn ermine]

I used that for the diluted -> turbo blend + default RF recipe chain.

Was nice getting a very decent chunk of power with a full mk5 belt of sulphur.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, me too... 2000 RF from 600 sulfur is kind of bonkers, lol

[unborn ermine]

my mess minus the byproducts being dealt with

This had 144,000MW of power

[prisma kraken]

turboblend really likes being made in chunks of 300 oil + 200 sulfur, which is why i did what i did

yeah, i'm at 120gw from it all. Good enough until i start needing the sloops in APA's for nuclear 🙂

i really think they should have nerfed rf a bit

[unborn ermine]

This is how I did mine
Straight above one another. Turbo below and RF above.

each row was its own pipe, the 4 machines were overclocked to feed one pipe that split to the packagers.

The whole setup was split between the two pure nodes of oil

[prisma kraken]

mine just demanded things to be grouped by 8

the rest of the bc oil is really going to rubber with a plastic line that sops up all the excess resin and makes some coke for tf alum

[unborn ermine]

I forgot I had pipes hidden when I did a delete to show the whole picture
(kinda neat seeing your pipe bones)

[prisma kraken]

looks clean

[unborn ermine]

Theres legit no building plan though, mainly because I dont think my PC could handle the detail work

[prisma kraken]

i'm gearing up for doing some plastic and rubber at lake forest as my next build

[unborn ermine]

its at least "mostly" walkable at least.

[prisma kraken]

its looking like it'll probably be 3600 plastic + 1800 rubber

nice

in general i'm really not doing detail work in this playthrough, its going to be big and i'm going to be figuring out scale stuff as i go, so i'm not sure there's really a good reason to

something i've been finding is that when you just build tons of stuff and it looks pretty organized, there's a certain amt of impressive that gives on its own

[unborn ermine]

kinda the vibe im getting here tbh, needing to slam another train station in here to deal with my 662.5/min iron excess and make some automated wire to the north now.

[vast jungle]

I think I am good with my 2600/min Rocket fuel in the crater right now (200 for drone fuel, 2400 for power 🙂 )

[prisma kraken]

i honestly have 1740/min iron ingots floating around on a train... every time i need nitric acid, that train gets a new destination 😛

[robust raptor]

I'm really curious to see what your world looks like with all the trains

[prisma kraken]

about the extent of it at the moment

[robust raptor]

Wow that's amazing

I'm surprised you don't have a loop around the world with how many trains you use

[vast jungle]

without factories in the North there is no need for a loop (yet)

[prisma kraken]

i will eventually if my pc doesn't melt

[robust raptor]

I built a rail loop just so I can expand at any part of the world without worry

That hexagon at the blue crater looks really cool

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, i don't wish to spend time on something that doesn't make immediate progress

[robust raptor]

I've been thinking about how to make my max nuclear look aesthetically pleasing since I might as well with such a gargantuan build

[robust raptor]

Fair enough, I did it just because I like building train tracks around the world

[prisma kraken]

i still have no idea where i want to put nuclear

[robust raptor]

And I wanted to ride a train around the whole world

[vast jungle]

me too... I sometime just push a few dead-end train lines forward to relax 😄

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm just not very keen on building the rails, i find it a very annoying job

[robust raptor]

These are my eventual plans for a world rail network

And this is what I've constructed so far

It's the dark blue line because I prioritised that as the first loop around the world

[vast jungle]

I see you started in the rocky desert too 🙂

[prisma kraken]

you've got some good stuff going on, honestly

[robust raptor]

I love the rocky desert

But I'm finally ready to move out and build factories all over the world

[past reef]

No red forest rail lol, at least you respect the caves and not just skytrain

[robust raptor]

I build to the terrain because I think that's a lot more fun

[prisma kraken]

i've been thinking that i really don't need a rail system in pink forest that connects to the rest of the tracks

there's enough oil up there for coke, and most of the aluminum will be going to ficsite which is drone-transportable. the only other things really up there are uranium and coal

[robust raptor]

It's funny how barren the red forest is

That's why I didn't really bother with planning a rail network up there

[vast jungle]

does anyone else find it funny that the Ficsit Trigon production just multiplies the number of items by 3 in a constructor?

[prisma kraken]

that coal since it won't be used for bauxite will be time crystals, and that's a drone transport thing

[past reef]

I'll still probably train over the red forest coals together for time crystal and whatnot

[prisma kraken]

so i'm guessing i just round up the baux, bring it to coke and then drone out ficsite and FMF's

if i hadn't started in GF, it would be a different story

[past reef]

Currently only have 1 train going up there for uranium, I can fit another train up there for whoknowswhat

[prisma kraken]

i still need to get a feel for how drones work with the good fuel types

[past reef]

Uranium kind of cut off the full circle loop for coke even when I run the rightmost slope up

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure how to get at that uranium, you can run a train or a belt up there from around where the central cave quartz is

and then drones wouldn't be a stretch

[robust raptor]

I'll probably be using a train for the uranium

Although drones work just fine too

[prisma kraken]

not exactly sure of what i'm doing with it all yet

[deft lichen]

@robust raptor @prisma kraken I'm very busy as of late, I'll try to keep it in mind but poke me if I don't reach out. The data looks very useful, I'm glad you took the time to crunch the numbers

[uneven burrow]

guys is it a good idea to overclock my entire power plant to 200% cuz i need power

[past reef]

no, 200% power generator just produce 200% more power using 200% more resource you'd starve the other ones

[uneven burrow]

i mean overclock EVERYTHING

miners water extractors etc

[jolly furnace]

could somebody please help me debug this. It is a fuel generator setup following the wiki (https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Setting_up_Fuel_Power) up to stage 2 for turbofuel. I am producing turbofuel at 100% efficiency but for some reason at the end of the second level the last couple fuel generators are receiving nothing

im pretty sure my pipes are correct but this is my first time using pipes on an actual scale so idk if the pumps are correct

[uneven burrow]

fuel power plant ptsd kicks in

[past reef]

there's a chance your belt can't handle the miner, but sure can

[vast wing]

do the gens have power

they need power to take in fuel

you have to jump start it

[jolly furnace]

yes they have power I have been watching the bottom level of 11 generators they are producing the correct amount with no hiccups

im going to reset my pumps it has to be that

everything else is in order

nvm I learned soemthing today, that the pumps show the headlift they are creating and wether or not it is reaching in-efficient levels

and one of my pumps was a meter over

its now producing power correctly

[vast wing]

nice

[uneven burrow]

i did it anyway it dident explode yet

[sly fjord]

I have all my generators at 250%, I design for it.

[prisma kraken]

I build coal power so it can be pushed to 250%. you need to be very careful about the piping (8 generators end up eating 900 water/min), but it is just a matter of sticking shards in everything & making sure your belts and miners are up to snuff

[north mauve]

You forgot a vehicle

[robust raptor]

Which one

[north mauve]

[robust raptor]

I was expecting you to say cybertruck, but that works too

[hardy wyvern]

106 sommerloop harvested. what is the most effiienct way to use them for maximum effect ?

[charred saffron]

Usually the most efficient use of sloops is on the final machine(s) of a production line to get double the end product for the same amount of materials

I am a big fan of using them to speed up semi-manually making project parts as well, though

[prisma kraken]

depends on what you're goal is. there's specific places for them in the max nuclear chain (ficsite converters & frod encoders), if you're goal isn't max nuclear, use them where you feel like. good places for them are in the RSam constructors to double your sam, in any high value upper tier recipes (OC Supercomputer only takes 2 sloops) or in places to short up production temporarily. Additionally, the APA's are a very nice power boost to your grid and they give some nice headroom into lategame to bridge the gap or replace the need for nuclear entirely

[steep imp]

is there any system with swtiches you use for your teleporters, so they dont draw power constantly, ideally you would want a on/off swtich at both sides of the teleporter, but how would you do that,

can you make a switch that automatically switches itself back off after 10 seconds

[oblique hollow]

Use a priority switch

You can disengage them remotely

But not really automatic timed switches. At least not without some more effort

[pallid prawn]

I need help with pipeflow issues

[brisk smelt]

not always the final

[pallid prawn]

I have 6 refineries pulling 600 fuel via an mk2 pipe. This is coming from 6 refineries producing 600 fuel. I am running a manifold set up with a loop from the end of the manifold back to the start with no elevation change between the input and output heads as they are on the same floor.

[tidal dock]

Make a new post in #1038092680493801533 with screenshot of your setup. You'll get better help that way.

[pallid prawn]

Thanks

[warm bane]

If you have a 1 to 1 ratio of refineries you're probably going to be better off doing 1-1 connections, way less issues can happen this way

[plush gulch]

You could use a battery storage.
Switch it on, let it charge for 10sec. Turn it off, jump in.

[steep imp]

i was thinking something with a priority power switch, and the portal is low priority, and something happens to trigger it off

like maybe a battery, that when it goes to 95% power it turns off

[steel knot]

When you mass delete in the save editor, there’s no way to put the deleted materials in a box, right?

I want the time savings of mass delete without having to restock to remake the factory

[tough fiber]

why is Heat-Fused Frame so recommended by the tier system?

[patent blaze]

probably uses less resources

uh nvm

yeah idk, thats just a worse recipe

[brisk smelt]

heat fused sucks

are you sure you have the correct tier list

[jolly furnace]

this problem has resurfaced again. I am running the ratio of 8.89 turbo fuel generators to 22.22 fuel generators

[tough fiber]

i used the one on reddit... is there another that you use?

[jolly furnace]

and the turbo fuel is being produced at 100% effciency

[brisk smelt]

yeah that tier list isn't great

honestly, i dont know of one for 1.0

[tough fiber]

and it's so hard to tell sometimes

although this one is pretty obvious it's bad, that's why i asked about it

[fringe pawn]

Heat fused frame uses less aluminum, and in exchange adds oil. Whether that's worth it is up to you. Not any tier list.

[keen moss]

How is that possible

[prisma kraken]

?

[keen moss]

consum. higher than max cons.

[prisma kraken]

heat fused is a very good recipe. FMF's take a lot of aluminum and it cuts 25% of that in exchange for a more complicated production process that does not require copper. When you're building big, you run out of aluminum first, so cutting down your alum use by ~1000 ingots/min is pretty fricking nice.

10000 > 116

that comma isn't a decimal point

[keen moss]

still haven't explained it

[prisma kraken]

but i see what you mean

blue and yellow line

[keen moss]

yes

[prisma kraken]

max consumption takes into account max draw from things that draw variable amts of power (eg trains and truck stations). when those things are actively working, their current power draw ends up being used instead of the max, so both graphs dip to reflect more accurate numbers

all that being said, sometimes those graphs just are a little off, lol

[keen moss]

my life is a f- lie

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the game lies to you, lol

[brisk smelt]

takes lots of nitrogen too, they have the same map limit

[wind spade]

No tier list is correct. Forget tier lists and check the recipe yourself

[prisma kraken]

nitrogen ends up being slightly less tight than it was pre-1.0

[wind spade]

None are good 🙂

[magic island]

all my fuel production gets routed toward power/plubber, so setting up and transporting a small amount of extra fuel just for frames is a bit annoying

but heat-fused is indeed resource-efficient and a great choice if you can get past that minor annoyance

[brisk smelt]

if you really want to be semantic, how do you even define good

[brisk smelt]

wouldn't bauxite be less tight because mk3's can out 1200 now

[magic island]

a lot of T9 stuff devours aluminum, esp if that's your ficsite path of choice

[prisma kraken]

imho, heat-fused is the worst factory in the game to make - all 4 ingredients are non-trivial (understating the difficulty of hmf's)

[wind spade]

Which is exactly why tier lists are pointless 🙂

[prisma kraken]

any tier list i've seen just sort of makes me lolwut at it

[brisk smelt]

tier list is the author's opinion of the thing being tiered 99% of the time unless you look at the "optimizing for resources" one on reddit, that one is just kind of pure bullshit

like...

-_-

[magic island]

lmao

two companion recipes but one is 0.3 worse because of some arbitrary calculation

[brisk smelt]

yeah the numbers are incredibly misleading

[prisma kraken]

i mean if you're doing some sort of qualitative analysis based on some criteria and it is all mathematically consistent, ok. but most of the lists i've seen are very one dimensional in their rating system

[fringe pawn]

I actually agree the most with a tier list that I think put recycled rubber and plastic in C. I believe the summary was well they are clearly better, there's tons of oil on the map, save that fiddliness for a last resort.

[wind spade]

what is the "-0.07%" compared to?

unless you look at the "optimizing for resources" one on reddit
same thing - how do you define "resource optimal"?

[brisk smelt]

no idea... because that second column should be like -100% not -3.13%

horrible mathematics on that one

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1ff515j/alternate_recipe_ranking_10_optimizing_for/

[magic island]

the recycled recipes require a chain of other oil recipes to get your fuel and your starter plubber, so an appropriate rating would have to factor those permutations in, and I'm guessing this list doesn't

my view is that the best recipes are the ones that minimize the effort and friction toward accomplishing your goal

which of course can be true for just about any recipe, depending on your goal and location and what you do/don't like to put effort into

[brisk smelt]

well yeah there is a lot of friction if you end up with no more resources on the map to use 🤣

[prisma kraken]

all i got to say is

why not throw default concrete into A-tier as well?

[wind spade]

if you end up like that, you've done some massive project. Most people wouldn't run into that issue

[wind spade]

why not throw everything in A tier? it would at least be a tier list I could recommend

[prisma kraken]

what would actually be interesting is sampling many saves and seeing what the most frequently used recipes really are

[wind spade]

the only problem is that people would look at that data with "this recipe is popular, it must be good"

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it would skew pure iron to the top of the list, lol

[magic island]

well like, if you have a specific plan that needs all the caterium on the map, then yeah you'll need to tap every node and spam refineries and fused assemblers etc

but if your project is smaller than that, there's nothing wrong with putting smelted caterium into cat wire constructors, whatever. very compact, very convenient, wire go brrrr

[prisma kraken]

yeah, and sometimes it is worth it to use a less efficient recipe just to save on logistical nonsense

like i built an iron-only motor factory last week.... it isn't very iron efficient or power efficient, but it makes use of the 2400 iron i had lying right btw 2 factories and makes enough motors to satisfy what i need for cooling devices

(incidentally, iron pipe + iron wire for motors ends up being some very clean numbers)

[unborn ermine]

Yeah if you go high enough you can get some nice numbers all around

[molten lintel]

What's the issue with pure recipes? Water is free 🤙🏻

[unborn ermine]

You can get a "better" input/output ratio with Iron Alloy.
albeit water vs copper + iron input

0.666~ per ingot with alloy

0.846~ per ingot with pure

Its just raw resources, but still.

Not even considering the refinery mess and power for both those and extractors to have "free" increase of iron ingots.

[molten lintel]

I may consider using that from now on

only because of the power part, which is the counter to "free water"

if power wasn't an issue, pure still wins since it's 0.538 total limited output resources vs 0.666

it's all for fun ofc, since I bet no one needs to save that little bit of either (power or copper)

[plush gulch]

I think I am mostly using the pure recipe. Water ain't an issue at my current base.
Power ain't that big of a deal either. I am only hoping 60GW is enough to get me to nuclear. After that it should be smooth sailing

[brisk smelt]

maybe some batteries to jumpstart the nclear plant

[acoustic iron]

when I switched my turbo plant to rocket fuel some of the fuel generators are still holding turbo fuel and aren't switching to rocket fuel. Is there any way to fix it

[unborn ermine]

click and drag the turbo to the trash icon in the UI
You will have to do this for all of them.

[acoustic iron]

thank you that will be so fun to do

[unborn ermine]

that or some SCIM magic, but yeah it sucks.

[robust raptor]

But my time and sanity isn't

I hate refineries and I'll do anything that allows me to not have to paint the world with them

I'm not using any pure recipes in my max nuclear setup and it'll save on me placing 310 refineries, which I think is very worth it for a cost of ~900 copper, ~700 iron, and a fair bit of coal but coal isn't that important anyway

[molten lintel]

valid

[uncut owl]

Does anyone know of how I can load-balance 50 items per min onto 1 belt?

And only 50 per min

[unborn ermine]

just make 50 items per minute via clocking

[uncut owl]

I'm considering that, but is there a theoretical way I could take an output of 60 and remove 10?

[prisma kraken]

answering seriously, iron alloy is just better than pure

for a fraction of the size, and for something that doesn't end up introducing a 7 and 13 into your production chains, you get more ingots per iron ore for less power and floorspace

[unborn ermine]

I went number blind and thought that 8 in pure was a 3

the input I mean

So yeah, more for your iron.

[prisma kraken]

yes, there is the 'just add water' argument, but it really doesn't hold up well when you sit down to build pure iron and just end up with something you can't split evenly, doesn't lend itself to full overclocking and honestly, the only item in the game that needs iron ingots is iron plate

[unborn ermine]

and yeah the only thing I think I do with pure,
Get it even, and slap the rest of a belt into a single smelter.

[prisma kraken]

i'm a little peaved that they removed the steel coated plate recipe so i can't say that no item needs fe ingots anymore,lol

[unborn ermine]

and thats only if I have zero copper nearby.

[prisma kraken]

i think the use-case for pure iron is when you're in phase 4 and pulling 780 from a node already and want to get another 780 ingots after upgrading to mk6 belts

it works for that, the extra 420 from a pure node after the mk6 upgrade will effectively give you another 780 line of ingots

besides that, the only place that pure iron really works is for making massive amts of screws with default or cast screw

[unborn ermine]

or like what I said
No copper/coal nearby, and I want to make a bunch of automated wiring with alts

[prisma kraken]

all of the pure builds are a bit big and require water and refineries. for copper and caterium, yeah, they stretch the resources quite a bit more

[prisma kraken]

can always add limestone, lol

[unborn ermine]

Yeah but thats more logistics and math.

[prisma kraken]

i haven't really found a use for basic iron, honestly. its like cheap silica... the limestone ends up dominating the logistics work with the volume you need

i think probably the recipe is there so you have a way of multiplying iron ingots with the sulfur->limestone converter recipe

i'm not sure if it is the same in every biome after the 1.0 rebalance, but as it stands for me with a GF start, i have a lot of untapped iron just lying around that i haven't made use of at all

[unborn ermine]

I havent really sprawled out in Rocky Desert as much as grassy would, because of those pure nodes by the big pond.

Harder to gauge it there

[prisma kraken]

yeah, gf is also weird with the fact that there's so many impure nodes

when you add them up, it turns out to be a lot of iron

[unborn ermine]

8 nodes in that one corner

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's 2 pure equivalent

there's also 8 impure around that twisty spire thing with the pure same node on top

[unborn ermine]

6 nodes, and another 6 heading back to grassy

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it really does add up

it was great for making some early trigons

i feel like there's a lot of recipes that exist specifically for mid-game builds

this is kind of an interesting comparison

[jovial lake]

Hmmm.. me mathing all the energy source, and wiki already having all that info...

[molten lintel]

noice

[jovial lake]

It's a disappontment that bionuggets are just a 1.25 multiplier

But I guess it makes the stack more compact

Also a surprise that they removed alien remains 'energy' content...so technically all alien remains is an 'infinite' multiplier 🤔

Regardless, them aliens are the number one renewable early game energy source, sort of....

[prisma kraken]

i'm still sad that they removed flower petals & color cartridges

running tractors on ink was pretty OP

[prisma kraken]

I think you get a better bang for the buck by sinking the critter bits for dna point

[jovial lake]

There's that, yes

But beside the normies coupon I'm not really in a rush to 'get them all'

[prisma kraken]

given that the early slooping of that makes them all worth 4x

[jovial lake]

Ah yes, slooping

A surprise and welcome addition

[prisma kraken]

i like it as a thing and it is a nice addition, i just wish it fit a little better into everything

like the solution works for allowing you to get shop stuff quicker, but it just feels like the concept could have been more developed and integrated, if that makes sense

not really complaining, just trying to express in words (and figure the thought out)

[molten lintel]

may I know where you got this from? 😄

seems like a pretty useful tool

[molten lintel]

ty

[vast jungle]

ouch... making Ficsit Ingots from Iron is really brutal...

good that there are Sloops 😄

[quick plume]

I'm redesigning my blue lake oil factory to a massive rocket fuel factory. Blue lake is the best place to make rocket fuel.

[vast jungle]

what do you mean by the 1200 in the "generator" sign? Just that it consumes all of the RF?

[unborn ermine]

240% is a 10/min burn

nice and clean numbers make things so very clean

[vast jungle]

ahh, you mean 120 at 240%

[quick plume]

it is oc fuel generators, by defualt it will take 3000 fuel gen

[vast jungle]

no,it does not?

[quick plume]

1200 oc

[vast jungle]

I use 576 Generators (not overclocked) for 2400/min Rocket Fuel

[quick plume]

yup, that is what am doing to avoid headach

[unborn ermine]

which for mine at the same RF amount at 240% is 240 gens

[vast jungle]

so its "120" gens, not 1200... right?

[unborn ermine]

Missing a zero in the RF amount there

[vast jungle]

@unborn ermine so you make 12000 (12k) of Rocketfuel/min?

[unborn ermine]

12000/10 = 1200

[quick plume]

If i have 12000 RF i will use 3000 fuel gen

but i oc the fuel gen to 10/min

[vast jungle]

12k/min rocket fuel... thats quite a bit of Nitrogen and Sulfur 😄

[unborn ermine]

Its pretty much saying "NO" to nuclear

[quick plume]

yup, i scoot 3 nitrogin resources

[quick plume]

this is to start my 255 nuclar power plant LOL

[vast jungle]

don't forget to make a bit more for drone fuel... the drone fuel rates for RF are misleading 😉

[quick plume]

I dont like dron at all

i use train for most part

the are reliable

[unborn ermine]

more or less? I have some plans with drones and I havent done the hard math yet

[vast jungle]

I was on "train only" too, but later replaced the "low output" connections with Drones... sending a train for Supercomputers is a bit insane 😉

[vast jungle]

drone consumption is for packaged RF... you need 2 RF for each packaged RF

[unborn ermine]

Oh you mean like that

I already just went for 100/min base and seeing how that flops goes

[vast jungle]

I tested out a few connection to see how much drones take per minute... (between 3 and 4 packaged RF/min)
but overlooked the conversion factor when packaging them

[unborn ermine]

the cheekiest part about drones I think I have to work around, the two way nature of delivery.
Its almost a 2-3x consumption depending how many routes you tack on for fuel chains/delivery.

[vast jungle]

I deliver the fuel to the factories which SEND things with drones by train... the other station gets no fuel ^^

[unborn ermine]

Thats the fun part of the game, hard logistics or not.
Like I refuse to make a train up to the northwest nitrogen node, so its 6 drone ports there for fuel/chain and nitrogen out.

[vast jungle]

yeah, logistics between factory complexes can get both fun and annoying... I tried to go with 1-4 trains everyhwere... then had to move to 1-4 train with 4 different items for factories that produce lots of different things in low quantities... and then had the issue when other factories only needed ONE item from this factory... 3x 1-4 station for receiving 3/min of three different items? These things grow quicker than most factories 😄

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I finally got around to getting into trains here, to the point I finally needed path signals

Still have zero plan for the map though.

[vast jungle]

thats my train network from yesterday #design-and-architecture message

still quite limited in matter of choice, but its getting there 😉

[vast jungle]

I build my train network mostly on demand too... no big plan for the whole map

[unborn ermine]

I think the only thing that is slightly planned here for me, the southeast junction could go somewhere

[vast jungle]

"will be extended in the future"... a sign that has been placed 100 hours ago 😉

[unborn ermine]

Oh thats my oil/aluminum's copper train line.

Still no idea what I planned here

[vast jungle]

LOL... I use the same Bauxite nodes, but I process them on the floor of the cliff...

seems to be a good place for Coke based Bauxite

[unborn ermine]

I used all the ones here plus that pure node in the middle

ended up being 2940/min

Bit of a conveyor line, but it worked out.

[vast jungle]

have been thinking about this too, but atm I am happy with 1500 Bauxit/min

[unborn ermine]

I said it before tho, I do love the fact my refineries for aluminum are so clean, 5 machines in a row
Came out so clean.

[vast jungle]

I made a mk2 blueprint for 300 bauxite into ingots and just stack them up to the input belt limit

[prisma kraken]

how did you end up with groups of 5? sloppy+electro is groups of 4, right?

[unborn ermine]

And hearing that you can put 5 in a blueprint mk3 machine after I built it

Sloppy 4x 75% and one at 67.5%
Electrode 4x 100% and one at 90%

The funky percent machines are actually a semi closed loop, 1-1 for alumina, but the water is still the one pipe for recycle/feed

[prisma kraken]

ahh, ok

mine doesn't look nearly as neat in SCIM

[unborn ermine]

I purged belts to actually see

[prisma kraken]

fine...

[unborn ermine]

my smelters are staggered per floor so it looks like this with belts

[prisma kraken]

without the other machines on other floors

[vast jungle]

Mine is one refinery at 200%, one at 105% and one at 45%

[prisma kraken]

i'm actually bringing the freshwater in from a packaging loop - needed to meter out the water from the well into 180's

[unborn ermine]

I went with the cheesy headlift reset pumps, feed the zero'd headlift water into one end of the loop from the bottom
and then its just a solid standard loop above the floor.

[vast jungle]

As long as output never stops aluminum loops can be very reliable

[unborn ermine]

The fun fact about my build, I would have had the same build with or without my reset cheese
Water would just be fed from a different location.

[prisma kraken]

what's funny is that because i'm using packagers, headlift doesn't come into play at all

no way you can say i have some VIP-in-disguise with it

[robust raptor]

I use a design where the byproduct water gets used in dedicated refineries just so I have the peace of mind that it will never stop

[vast jungle]

A few more rooms for merging things (both liquids and solids) would be nice

[prisma kraken]

honestly, on the subject, the design pictured is the most stable one i've found for aluminum provided you have a sink on the scrap or whatever that keeps it from ever stopping

[vast jungle]

The sink is an essential security feature

[prisma kraken]

i have them installed because i'm pulling silica in from purification

i've been having that be touchy for me

[unborn ermine]

Fun fact my build has no sinks and it can for the most part recover
Just takes ages and I need to empty the miners a bit.

tested that out when I started it up.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, filling those buffers with 500 scrap takes ages

that's one that i elect to do a perfect balanced split on

[unborn ermine]

"balanced"
Two lines per machine row for me. then that gets belted and cooked.

[prisma kraken]

i figure i'm going to lock up aluminum at some point somehow, and just having it be able to cut back on after a pipe flush at full speed is nice

really isn't a lot of space to do it

this evening has been a ton of trainwork, i've been switching around the train paths in my 'main base'

the number of times i've deadlocked my rails tonight has been probably more than all my previous playthroughs, lol

[vast jungle]

Luckily we get a warning about deadlocked trains... Wasn't always the case I think

[prisma kraken]

i found a signalling pattern that is absolute death for a rail network

unfortunately, to keep things moving as i've moved stuff around, yeah, i've been doing some naughty stuff, lol

[vast jungle]

Stations parallel to a track with input/output to the track on each side are easy to deadlock with the wrong signals

[prisma kraken]

its more that i've got some old rails that i will delete cutting through other rails atm, the signalling is pretty bad right now

[vast jungle]

That sounds like a lot of work to keep alive

[prisma kraken]

hasn't been a fun project with moving the storage buffers and stations

yeah, it's not been easy and it's boring repetitive work

one of those things that if i don't do it now, i'll be screwing myself more later

[vast jungle]

Yes, some problems should not be moved to "later"

[prisma kraken]

i've been learning a bit though. there's some patterns of station layout that i now know to avoid, and more importantly why

[vast jungle]

Can you post your example?

[prisma kraken]

give me a sec to travel

[vast jungle]

No hurry, might be afk for a while soon

[prisma kraken]

never do this

the trains get jammed up coming out of the station and block traffic on the track that crosses over

there's no way to signal it except to have them stop outside of the entire region and only let a single train in

[vast jungle]

It would need to be a quite large path signal block I think... Maybe more than available

[remote flame]

I was about to say that would be quite the armada of signals to get that to flow nicely haha, even so the train would be slowing down so it could break in time at each crossover

I usually just say "The less railway crossovers you have, the better"

[prisma kraken]

yeah, if you try to break the block up by signalling it on the rails btw the station outputs, it deadlocks in a matter of minutes

in any event, one of those rails is going byebye soon

[prisma kraken]

all done for now, and i have to say, the difference in congestion at the main base is palpable

[frosty owl]

I think you can sum this up with: try to avoid merging rails where trains are expected to have different speeds.

Or, in other words: don't have a rail with fast-moving trains be crossed by one (or multiple) rails of slow-moving trains (trains still needing to pick up speed)

[prisma kraken]

kinda? I think it more is going in opposite directions

where i ended up with the station rebuild is a design that resembles this quick sketch

how it ws working before is trains were coming down and looping into the stations and having to loop back around to get out