math-and-meta

[bronze barn]

Least I believe so 😬

[prisma kraken]

i know the guy is still relatively active, i've seen some of his updated stuff for dyson sphere in the past year

[bronze barn]

Can't say if they are pllaning to or have done

[amber basin]

i am trying to figure how the calculator satisfactory works.. i set two max for wires and cables (just for a test) and it's saying that just 2.031% of limit (360), why so?

[bronze barn]

But one could so on their own 😉

[prisma kraken]

i'm not crazy about his designs, but they're always interesting to look at

[bronze barn]

Well like I said; I like the concept of this, but the limitattion pre 1.0 was the lack of the larger designer so you HAD to make the 100% on your own (Or as a series of 3x3 prints I guess)

[prisma kraken]

part of it as well is i'm not even sure what a useful format would be, do you give someone a floorplan, a list of machines & recipes, a connectivity diagram? a blueprint?

[bronze barn]

Personally - Which is of course subjective. I think this becomes to tower-y for my taste, but I've no inclination that says it's a poor choice

[prisma kraken]

yeah, shavingfoam's stuff is very vertical

[bronze barn]

Probably that's what someone would need to figure out if they were to do this in their own way

[prisma kraken]

most of it he came up with before bp's even existed in the game

(i'm assuming 'he' without knowing)

[bronze barn]

Looks like they are updating something

[wind spade]

What's wrong there?

[amber basin]

I mean, i thought that it will show me how many cables and wires will produce if i set maximize while i got some available resources. maybe i am doing wrong, still learning how to figure it hehe

[wind spade]

How many products are you maximising?

If you select more than one, it will only make equal amount of all. And generally I don't recommend using maximise

[magic island]

if both the default recipes are turned on, and you're only making wires+cables, then that should prompt the solver to use up all the copper you give it

but if eg default wire is turned off, then maybe it'll try to make fused wire instead, and then you get bottlenecked by whatever caterium you've input, preventing full usage of the copper

hard to know what's up without seeing all the settings you've applied

[amber basin]

Oh, just curious. Why you don't recommend using maximise?

[amber basin]

I hadn't any ideas about recipes. Just checked on the list of base recipes and turned on (wires and cables) and now it's saying of 100%, so it's working. interesting.

[oblique hollow]

maximize finds one way to make the max of a selected material, but it doesnt actually minimize resource usage

and when you select multiple things, it tries to make all of them in equal amounts

[magic island]

the solver is also more prone to making weird extra decisions when you maximize (ie, processing byproduct in ways you never asked for)

[amber basin]

in fact, you are right. good to know 🙂

[magic island]

I only use maximize as a quick ballpark for what's theoretically doable and what recipes may be involved in achieving that

then I punch in an actual number to start creating a real functional plan

[unborn ermine]

yeah, limiting the recipes and doing max for a quick look, set, then do the next thing on my list like that if I decide to go a bit lower.

[wind spade]

It doesn't optimise for resources

[cerulean stratus]

Im thinking on doing some kind of alarm system, with a sink or a machine and an underclocked biomass generator

if the item gets through, the sink is activated, and the player hears that one of the fuses is broken, propmting the player to fix it

it can be useful for aluminum, to take care of the water

[unborn dome]

What else could I reasonably want to use petrocoke for aside from the better aluminum alt? Maybe that diamond alt once I get there?

Electrode Circuit Board is kinda meh, maybe the "temperered" alts for copper and caterium ingots and "coke steel" for steel ingots?

(Just debating if I should build capacity for more than the 200 petrocoke I'm going to need for my aluminum factory)

[wind spade]

Coke steel

[unborn dome]

Looks like gets you +25% more steel for iron ore, compared to the 1:1 for the default recipe?

Wait, maybe that math is wrong...

33% more steel?

[cerulean stratus]

To make coke you need heavy oil residue, you can turn that into either fuel or coke.
For coke, it's all that you said, for fuel, there's recycled stuff and power

you can also put the coke in coal generators

[unborn dome]

Yeah, I need to make coke at my existing diluted fuel refinery for the electrode aluminum scrap alt at my aluminum factory, so I'm just tying into the existing HOR pipe. Just trying to decide how much extra HOR I'm going to need.

[cerulean stratus]

but you might as well use the heavy oil to make power

[unborn dome]

This place already has 10 fuel generators at 200%

So it's purely a question of how much extra petrocoke I want beyond 200

[cerulean stratus]

don't think of it as using for power, it's just another way to get rid of it

you can also sink it

[unborn dome]

Currently consuming 100% of my HOR. I'm going to need to bump up production to specifically make petrocoke.

[wet python]

is it too wasteful to use the electric motor recipe? it uses elec magnetic rod and rotors "only"

the alternative would be the traditional recipe but for a 100pm+ factory I would need quite a lot of iron

[cerulean stratus]

i mean, it's a harder recipe than normal motors

[wet python]

does anyone have a 100pm+ motor factory? where did you build it?

[cerulean stratus]

You can use a place with just iron or iron and copper, or go steel with coal or coke

[violet halo]

If you aren't already in the dune desert, that place has lots of iron, copper, and a bit of coal.

[cerulean stratus]

iron allow is just so efficient you can do it anywhere

[violet halo]

With enough alts, I imagine you could just take copper and coal out of the equation.

[cerulean stratus]

the man is worried his iron won't be enough

[violet halo]

What is the base resource cost on 100/m?

[cerulean stratus]

on base, 3150 iron, 900 coal, 800 copper

[violet halo]

What tier are we working with?

[wet python]

T5 belts

[cerulean stratus]

then why are you talking about electric motor, you don't even have ecms yet

[wet python]

i have everything except the new stuff from 1.0

[cerulean stratus]

oh

I understood tier 5

[wet python]

oh the MAM tiers... sorry i misunderstood it

[cerulean stratus]

no, the spelev tiers

[wet python]

lol yeah i meant that

[violet halo]

So we have Mk III miners, and slightly over 4 belts of iron.

[cerulean stratus]

that's if he chooses smelters

[wet python]

i would go with refineries

[violet halo]

The conversation rate for pure is what?

[cerulean stratus]

7 to 13

[violet halo]

That's less than 3 full belts in for iron ore then.

You can get that with 3 overclocked normals.

[cerulean stratus]

yeah it's like 2k iron ore

[violet halo]

1700 rounded up, so 3 normals would be a little extra.

[cerulean stratus]

yeah

if the man wants to use pure ingots I say go for it. Personally, I find foundries much easier to work with

[violet halo]

There are a lot of places with that much iron, copper, and coal next to each other.

[violet halo]

I agree, on both parts.

[cerulean stratus]

I do find steel really annoying to work with though

[violet halo]

The 45 out is what gets me, I've started overclocking them to 100 even, usually.

[cerulean stratus]

for me it's the coal. There's hundreds of locations with iron and copper nearby, but coal is way more rare

[violet halo]

Southern dune desert has a good concentration of it. That's where I make all of mine currently.

[cerulean stratus]

that and you want to split the coal for power and coal for steel

[violet halo]

My coal for power is in Northern dune desert. There's a decent supply right next to the waterfall over there.

On the north eastern edge of the map.

[cerulean stratus]

yeah, there's also a spot further south, depending on where you made your first base

[violet halo]

I was a bit of a goof and just built my first base in the sky right at the dune desert spawn. I looked around for a moment, and said good enough.

[cerulean stratus]

However, not all locations are like the desert, with 3 pure coal nodes, and plenty of iron around

Northern forest has a ton of iron and copper on one side, and a ton of coal and 1 iron on the other

[violet halo]

I haven't actually tried the other three yet. So I don't know where the actual start points are, just a rough region of where.

[cerulean stratus]

you don't manage that 1 iron correctly, you're going to have trouble

not only that, due to low belt capacity and miners early on, you can't output a lot of steel

(I'm also never satisfied with the layout)

[violet halo]

Also this, I've redone my initial steel output at least 3 times.

[cerulean stratus]

I don't really redo my things, I try to get them right on the first try

[violet halo]

First try was actual first try ever this time around. So every time I had an idea about improving it, I came back and changed it.

[cerulean stratus]

I've got to say, satisfactory is pretty weird

In the beginning, the low throughput makes me want to have multiple bases
But biomass and the lack of options makes you centralize

But once you actually get options, for that, like power towers, hypertube cannons, and even drones, you also get a lot more throughput

so you could expand your base, but you'll go somewhere else do other stuff instead

What am I saying, satisfactory wants you to decentralize

[violet halo]

It sure does, but I refused as much as I could manage.

[cerulean stratus]

I just finished a 40x40 foundation run with my friend

in 36 hours

[cerulean stratus]

Looking it up, it is worth it if you're going turbo electric motor for turbo motors

[violet halo]

How many layers up did you end up having to go?

[cerulean stratus]

5

Basic, oil, aluminum, nitrogen, phase 4 spelev and phase 5

it's pretty disorganized, but that was also the idea

[vapid gorge]

it's also very conenient if you have other oil items you need on location

[fierce ruin]

is this the most rocket fuel u can get from 600 oil with a limit of 1200 sulfur?

[unborn ermine]

I think so yeah, it just gets weird with the compact coal being used to make more.

[cerulean stratus]

What about slooping

[fierce ruin]

true, i guess without slooping

[fierce ruin]

and okay ty. i dont mind reusing the compact coal so not to big of a deal for me

[cerulean stratus]

In any case
I'd recommend having a bp for the generators

[fierce ruin]

ye i do

[cerulean stratus]

Are you in phase 5 yet?

[fierce ruin]

yeah this is my 2nd plant actually

just moving it to diff location and wanting to maximize

[cerulean stratus]

Then if power shards

Inf

[fierce ruin]

my bp has them with power shards and max clock speed 😛

[cerulean stratus]

Nice

[fierce ruin]

yeah it makes it so much nicer/quicker

[warm bane]

If you like cleaner numbers, I'm going to build a setup next that output 1800/min + an extra 240/min packaged
The numbers work out pretty nicely, and you can pretty easily split it in smaller sections

[fierce ruin]

you mean this one?

[cerulean stratus]

So we're looking at 200gw?

[warm bane]

240 packaged +1800 regular, so almost this

[fierce ruin]

i believe its 625 mw at 250% so roughly 141 gw

[warm bane]

Well no actually never mind, in what I had (not at the pc rn) I end up using both version of the rocket fuel recipe

[cerulean stratus]

Absolutely ridiculous

[warm bane]

And I do use all 600 crude oil

[cerulean stratus]

What will you even use that much power for

[fierce ruin]

who knows but i am also doing a playthrough with others and the guy never did a RF plant so he wants to do a huge one
so i planned this out

[warm bane]

Setting up nuclear
For even more power

[fierce ruin]

anyways gtg. cya and gl out there pioneers

[cerulean stratus]

They both need sulfur though

[warm bane]

You don't consume that much to do rocket fuel

+it's really nice to use with drones

I'm at 900 or smth

[unborn ermine]

is it basically this? Quick setup in tools and this is the best my poor brain can get without actually planning.

[unborn dome]

Do the ratios not work out properly such that you could use up all the compacted coal for turbo/rocket fuel?

[unborn ermine]

I think with stratigic slooping people said they could

I cant recall the fine details

[warm bane]

I'm pretty sure I had no byproduct compacted coal and cleaner numbers (because I forced 1800/min)
I was also making a bunch of compacted coal

As a necessary step

If you're interested, in about 8-ish hours I'll have access to my pc and I can share you the planner link

[unborn ermine]

I think im missing a recipe in here
mucking with a cloned tab and I might have picked the wrong turbo

[warm bane]

Deactivate maximise for rocket fuel and input the 1800/min, that way you get the ressource optimized result instead of the product optimized one

[unborn dome]

So my liquid biofuel has the refinery, the solid biofuel, AND the biomass constructor slooped. As long as I don't hook it up to a generator, I think I've basically got infinite packaged biofuel now lol

[unborn ermine]

Ended doing that in another tab
either way, I like cleaner numbers and charts

[warm bane]

You don't really need the sloops tbh,just by using the stuff I randomly collect while building I've filled an ISC of packaged and 2 industrial buffers of liquid biofuel

Now I've setup another chain near a sulfur node where I convert the biomass into coal to make gunpowder

[unborn dome]

Yeah true, I'll probably take the sloops back out once I fill up the two industrial buffers hooked up to the output

[wet python]

sloop = somersloop?

[unborn dome]

Just for the initial fill I don't want to burn through all my alien protein too quickly

[unborn ermine]

I also almost feel like if you DO want to make your rocket fuel compacted coal into more power, better to just have a separate diluted fuel or something planned to input into that instead of "making more" for the whole of it all.

[unborn dome]

Mind you, I have just over 350 alien protein, so I probably don't have to worry regardless...

[warm bane]

I did sloop the protein, but then I also slooped those into DNA for the points

[unborn dome]

I was doing that earlier, but I'm effectively done with the coupons now, aside from the novelty items in the shop

[unborn ermine]

I did a mass of more DNA capsules, only 40 away from the golden nut.

[unborn dome]

I wonder what you get if you sink the nut lol

[amber umbra]

Recycled rubber/plastic alt question. Am I understanding correctly that the recycled plastic/rubber alts when used together in a loop effectively convert fuel into plastic/rubber using plastic/rubber as a catalyst? And the conversion is 1:1 if you ignore the resin byproduct?

150 crude -> 400 plastic/rubber + 100 resin (HOR + diluted fuel)

[unborn dome]

Yes basically

Although it's not 1:1 unless you use the resin byproduct to even it out

[remote flame]

The maths for the Recycled loop is as follows (Original Credits to Apocalyptech and Haxton)
Note: this does use the Residual Rubber recipe for additional rubber input.

Fr = (16/27)R + (7/27)P - (2/27)F
Fp = (8/27)R + (17/27)P - (1/27)F

Where;
Fr = Fuel to be fed to recycled rubber refineries
Fp = Fuel to be fed to recycled plastic refineries
R = Rubber output desired (can be 0), P = Plastic output desired (can be 0), F = Fuel output desired (can be 0).

• If outputting just rubber or just plastic is desired, then 3 Rubber/Plastic output = 1 Crude oil input

[amber umbra]

Let's see

Seems like the answer is, yes.

[wet python]

these are my plastic and rubber factories, using a 600 oil input. I went for a little surplus of fuel (to generators) just to get rounded numbers.

[unborn dome]

The nice thing is that if you realize later on you need more of one of the three outputs, you can just over/underclock the recycler refineries to change the ratios around.

[wet python]

you will probably not need "less" of anything and will end up building another factory

[unborn dome]

I mean, if you realize you've got far too much plastic after finishing the computer factory, you can probably divert more of it into rubber

[wet python]

more computers 🙂

[amber umbra]

Looks like you do a 1:2 ratio for the final loop of recyled rubber:recycled plastic (if outputing plastic). And you'd flip for outputing rubber. Fuel input -> rubber/plastic output.

Idk, guess I'm surprised by how it works relative to how it's discussed on discord.

[wet python]

also, I took T5 belt speeds as a limitation at my design

rubber will always sink a lil bit

[amber umbra]

Quick testing loop I was playing with as an example.

Overall, really cool alt recipe chain. I'm quite pleased with the design from the devs. Very nice.

Maybe a bit lame that it's another HOR + diluted fuel combo.

[remote flame]

Pretty much the standard recipe way;
You need 3 Crude oil for 2 Plastic/Rubber (3/2 Crude > 1 Plastic/Rubber)

Recycled loop;
(1 Crude > 3 Plastic or 3 Rubber)

By using the recycled loop method, you cut down your oil consumption by 4.5x, so it is always always worth doing if maximising oil efficiency is on your mind

[amber umbra]

The 1 crude to 3 plastic/rubber assumes you utilize the resin from HOR correct?

But aren't residual rubber and residual plastic different ratios of resin to plastic/rubber?

[unborn dome]

Yes

[amber umbra]

Yea, so the actual amount of rubber and plastic aren't identical ratios from crude.

[unborn dome]

Yep, you need to correctly balance the plastic and rubber refineries to get the amount you want of each.

Easier to use an online calculator imo

[amber umbra]

Alrighty, makes sense makes sense. Was seeing a lot of slightly fuzzy math on the internet for it. This clarifies nicely for me. Cheers Dehve, Jinn.

[remote flame]

Yeah if you aren't using the resin or HOR recipe, it will change it all up, lemme write it up quickly for ya

[amber umbra]

I don't care about peak efficiency, so I'll probs just sink the resin and only utilize the fuel to plastic/rubber components for simplicity.

HOR, diluted fuel, recycled plastic/rubber. Nice and clean.

Cause if you want a single output belt of say plastic, you have to merge the resin plastic with the recycled plastic. Which is probably fine, but I could see weirdness if your consumption isn't 100%. Sink the resin and it should be very robust.

Well maybe it's not an issue because if one or the other output plastic gets backed up, it'll cause the other output plastic to slow down which opens the other other to being consumed. Hmmm

Alright, definitely bedtime.

[unborn dome]

You can use resin for fabric using an alt

[amber umbra]

Kinda the question of does the setup work with the plastic/rubber underconsumed and overconsumed and perfect consumed.

Cheers

[wary rapids]

I present my originnal modual alumium. 240 bauite , 240 water 120 coal to scrap.

to 1200 scale no clock

the two lone machines are for processing 780

i should do an up clock test.

[wary rapids]

i found a way to 200 upclock test it.

and it can eat my 480 lane with one moudle.

[civic terrace]

still need to unlock mk6 belts for it but this took me longer to figure out than I care to admit
input: 1200/min, 600/min
output: 720/min, 720/min, 360/min

it is for coal for some aluminum scrap manifolds, made the inputs work out a lot nicer since each machine needs 120 coal/min

Also I know I could just do 3 600/min lines and have the numbers still work out nicely for coal but this layout made it better for managing water and bauxite

[golden smelt]

set up this factory that produces 750 turbo fuel, but the fuel is not reaching some of the gens, and other gens are constantly turning off and on

[unborn dome]

Try a pump, even if you don't need headlift

[vapid gorge]

can you draw a layout of how your pipes are put?

[golden smelt]

looks a little like this

[prisma kraken]

oft times if you disconnect the power lines to the generators and let the pipes and generators to fill to 100% (so the flow in the pipes drop to zero), reconnecting the gens then ends up being stable.

[violet halo]

One at a time, from back to front.

[prisma kraken]

it looks as well like you've got some pretty long manifolds which often leads to a sloshing effect

[violet halo]

If that is a completely straight line without drop ins, then it'll slosh more, like moonchild said.

[prisma kraken]

i recommend in such cases breaking your fuel output into multiple pipes that supply smaller numbers of generators. Another option is to connect the ends of the manifold together to form a loop.

there's no 100% effective solution to making stuff that checks out on paper to work with the game's fluid simulation. other means people try include goat sacrifice and valves 😄

also, it doesn't appear like you are overclocking your generators (i see green status lights), you may wish to consider lessening the number of generators you need with power shards

tl;dr it boils down to the first two rules i follow with pipes: keep pipes full and keep pipe networks small

[vapid gorge]

If you’ve yeah you’ll want to loop the pipe and flood the system

[vapid gorge]

Like this

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's what i meant by looping the pipe. Cobalt is a lot more of a believer in that solution than I am

ever since my first playthrough back in update 4 a few years ago, i've observed that pipe manifolds past a certain length get rather unstable

its rather frustrating to have built it all out and to see it all not work correctly afterward

i'd have to go back and look at exactly what i had built, but it was something like 600/min yellow fuel using residual fuel, lol

i think we all made a lot of sins and mistakes in our first playthrough of the game 🙂

[wary rapids]

so i bought boom box tape which say thier added to the boom box but my boom box says it has no tapes

got it this item is so worth it. probally the most important item in game

[vapid gorge]

Loops literally make longer manifolds more stable 😛

[prisma kraken]

i'm not going to argue, i've had some successes and some failures with it

as such, i'm not a believer in espousing solutions that situationally work

[wind spade]

I've seen them work in like 99.9% of cases, when built properly (loop, feed from above, prefilled before running, etc.)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its just the outliers that get you

if you're piping 600/min of whatever fuel type down a pipe into a bajillion generators, I'm never seen that really work properly

[wind spade]

I've never seen that fail 🤷

[prisma kraken]

i don't think i've built something like that since my first playthrough where i got burned by it

[wary rapids]

as far as i know a pipe that carrier 600m to be used somewhere else must be looped. a pipe that carriers 550m does not need to be.

the pipe creates back presure becuase the fluid has no where to go when the machines back up.

if you divide your flidud segment into smaller sections then 600 m you aviod all the weird mechinics and your builds are much simpler.

[vapid gorge]

nah, even significantly lower than 600 often needs looping.

and if you have too many machines drawing too much fluid pm from too many points along it a loop might not even be enough to stabalise it

but that's fairly rare

if though, for example, you had a 600 pipe feeding only 3 machines from 1 junction? probably doesn't need loop

[prisma kraken]

my unproven hypothesis is that how much machines draw per cycle and how often they draw what they consume off of a manifold can lead to 'empty places' in a pipe that cause liquid to backflow. if backflow happens, the forward movement capacity of the pipe is reduced and you'll not get full capacity. If my hypothesis is correct, it really depends on the staggered timing of when machines pull off of a manifold as to whether you get backflow.

i'd posit that there's probably some pathological timings that reduce flow to perhaps as little as half capacity, but i've never sat down with the math in detail to figure that out

[violet zealot]

How many drones are needed to transfer items produced at the rate of 1200/m across 2.5km distance? And is it possible to build a large enough drone dock to transfer every type of resource?

[vapid gorge]

depends on stack stize

[vapid gorge]

and of course, there's more than enough space

[vapid gorge]

#math-and-meta message

[prisma kraken]

well, giving a few numbers as data points... it usually takes 2-3 drones to move 600/min ore between points

[violet zealot]

yeah I got space I am building over the ocean on the north west part of the map

[prisma kraken]

i've seen people do extremely large drone setups before, and it is possible if you make enough fuel for them

i think it is much better to rely on trains for really high volume move-lots-of-stuff tasks, but you can do it, its just not really what they're made for doing

[vapid gorge]

just need to slap down more drones for more throughput

[violet zealot]

Yeah I know just doing this purely for the aesthetics or rather theme

[prisma kraken]

the only real considerations are making/distributing fuel and paying the 100mw per drone port power requirement

that does add up

the only other thing i'll mention is that you should think through how you supply fuel to the drones, i'm not sure if the issue is fixed now, but in past game updates, some people were reporting that drones used double the fuel they should have if both the source and destination ports were supplied with fuel

i'm unsure if that issue ever was fixed or that a workaround was found for it that just sidestepped that issue

[bronze barn]

Well you only need to supply them on one anyway, so it's hardly an actual issue

[prisma kraken]

tl;dr, ports use a fair bit of power and you'll need to do some planning and probably a bit of tuning to sustain higher volume rates, but going drone only is doable

[bronze barn]

And since their pickup locations are going to be scattered it's beneficial to do on dropoff anyway

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it requires some thought and planning - all i'm saying

[bronze barn]

The thought and planning is fairly simple though. Prio inputs that produce what you need to fuel and power then and anything past that comes after.

[fringe pawn]

In 1.0, would that be equivalent to drone speeds if they are powered by batteries?

If not batteries, what is the baseline fuel comparable to pre 1.0?

[vapid gorge]

not super clear, it'll be rough. You'd have to ask Sev

[fringe pawn]

I don't think he's been around since 1.0? Probably better to just start from scratch

I've seen him over on the valheim server

[vapid gorge]

nah this was him doing it 1.0

yeah they banned him for no specific act

[fringe pawn]

That post is dated September 6th, before release?

[vapid gorge]

he was around for a bit 1.0. Don't know how long

[bronze barn]

Gonna go out on a limb and say he wasn't banned for no specific act 🙃

[vapid gorge]

but yeah considering there aren't multiple curves I don't think fuel type was done

[vapid gorge]

there were no conflicts for months?
He was abbrasive bout it and if you didn't like it, you didn't have to talk to him

[bronze barn]

I had no issue with Sev, so no need to talk to me like that, but I'm pretty confident "no specific act" doesn't warrant a ban. Surely there was a reason

[vapid gorge]

see? not you're making up some sort 'way I'm talking to you' when I just pointed out no one had to speak to him

people tend to project how they feel something is like that is totally divorced from reality

[bronze barn]

People can still get offended by something that is not directed at them which can warrant a ban. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the fact he was banned but I wasn't online when it happened, so it's kinda hard for me to claim what the reason was other than saying I'm having a hard tiem believing it was for nothing. In any case we probably shouldn't be discussing this.

[vapid gorge]

nah, there was no event, just got told to leave

One thing Sev isn't is a liar and if there was some event so awful they had to scrub all chat logs from it something would have been mentioned

[wind spade]

He was banned pre-1.0

[vapid gorge]

ah, must have been jsut before

[wind spade]

Was really no reason at that time. I'm just assuming they did "pre-1.0 cleanup"

[vapid gorge]

which is honestly silly, ofc there was going to be a surge on the server for a bit, but it's already dying down

unless they do dlc or expansion it's just going to get quieter

[wind spade]

The "official" reason was "accumulation of complaints" or something like that

[warm bane]

If you want a raw ballpark a quick and dirty test I did gave me 11/min for turbo fuel and 2.9/min for rocket fuel, for a distance of about 3km

[vapid gorge]

they should have done that at the time of last complaint if that was the case.

[violet zealot]

can u try plutonium just for fun

[warm bane]

Not at my pc atm but it should be pretty damn good

But then you have the headache of massive radiation around every ports

[molten light]

Guys, help me pls, where de fuck is this quartz?

Is it bugged? Because there is no any of them

[warm bane]

There's a very big cave underneath

[molten light]

How do I get there?

[warm bane]

There's 4 entries to it, but the most obvious one is all the way to the west, at the back of the cove with the 4 coal nodes, behind rocks you need to blow up with nobelisk

There's also another on the coast East, pretty close to the iron node near the 4 coal node you're already exploiting

The final two are harder to spot and are on the North coast irc

[molten light]

why someone did that

[warm bane]

Logistical challenge

[molten light]

I found it

Thanks sm

[warm bane]

The cave is big enough to run a train through it, or you can use the fact that the ceilling of the cave is actually pretty thin and run a conveyor lift directly through it

[molten light]

And thanks with this one too

(about lift)

[amber umbra]

Ah, I was wondering what happened to Sev. Hopefully he takes something positive from the experience.

[fossil basalt]

Satisfactory hard mode: everything has hard collision

[neat crest]

I recall that pre-update 1.0, Classic battery was superior. Still the case or no?

[pulsar notch]

there aren't a lot of uses for batteries, but I know I'd say the simplicity of classic battery makess it a good option

[wind spade]

No recipe is "superior", nor was in pre-1.0

[oblique hollow]

It saved sulfur and used more plastic and copper or whatever.

Nowadays, neither recipe is really useful as they are completely optional now.
Besides the super state computer alt

Main benefit was not using fluids and having no byproduct

[neat crest]

Yah I'm only using it for SSCs for the phase 4 assembly directors

Packaging rocket fuel for drones

[oblique hollow]

You can use either recipe.
The resource saving benefit you get from Classic is negligible. Its really more just about not needing to deal with fluids

[neat crest]

Mmmm not having to build wire or plastic is pretty tempting...

[steel knot]

If my train route is shorter than the allowed throughput I want, will adding a pause at one of the stations fix this?

I thought I’d be able to select “wait for full load/unload” but the train doesn’t wait any differently

[oblique hollow]

you need to set the "wait for full load" AND "x seconds"

if you dont change the OR to AND the train will just wait a few seconds and then head out

[steel knot]

Hm but what is a full load in this case? I’m unclear on the two options I have before the and/or wait

[oblique hollow]

full load is a full freight car

[steel knot]

Hmm. I’ve sent an empty car to a station without enough items to fill it and it left partially filled

[oblique hollow]

i think the setting used to be somewhat broken, not sure if it now properly waits for the right cars

[steel knot]

Ahh I wonder if it’s because I have a second platform I’m not using

So maybe it’s saying “I loaded 0/0” L’Hopitals train station

[oblique hollow]

i think you should first check if your wait condition is AND or an OR

[steel knot]

Will do. Just curious why it’s necessary if the “wait for full load” condition is essentially supposed to be a variable wait time depending on the percentage of capacity

But good to know I can just change wait times to adjust the throughput

[oblique hollow]

its necessary because if you have an OR, it doesnt have to wait for the first condition

[steel knot]

Oh duh

[oblique hollow]

because the OR tells it "Either you manage to get a full load or you just wait 5 seconds and then piss off"

And of course it pisses off after 5 seconds

[steel knot]

Got it. Thanks

Just rounding out this discussion. This should get me close to max on that line with only two stations and one train. If I had multiple, it would still theoretically work for equal inputs at each station, but probably mess with say a pure and a normal node input at two separate stations on the loop before heading to a third

My scenario in the red forest has a lower loop with 3-4 bauxite mines and an upper loop with 1-2 and converging to a main refinery

[drowsy tiger]

My theory on the Mk6 Belt Problem..... https://www.google.com/search?q=nyquist+rate

The polling rate can be set to 30/s.. which is only 50% greater than the frequency of 1200/min belt which is 20/s... so you need a sampling rate of 40+/s or you lose data

[prisma kraken]

you may be on to something with that observation

[drowsy tiger]

I had a fear about this awhile back when they came out.. and now that I hear mk6 do have issues I bring it up

[steel knot]

What’s the mk6 belt problem? I’m following how your solution applies but haven’t come across the issue yet

[drowsy tiger]

People are reporting inconsistent practical rates of the belt well below spec of 1200 apparently

[steel knot]

Ahhh

Wouldn’t that mean that mk5 are affected too?

[prisma kraken]

i observed similar issues in update 8 with mk5 belts

[steel knot]

Oh nvm. Frequency of a mk5 is 13

[prisma kraken]

incidentally, changing your video settings seems to alleviate a lot of these problems... setting the belt updates to 30 hz and fps to unlimited makes the issues largely disappear for me

mk5's 13 is such a strange frequency

[drowsy tiger]

Is there a best way to notify the devs? I don't want to bug them but i'm curious 😄

[prisma kraken]

post something on the QA site https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/

something else that you should most likely understand before going on a crusade is that the game's simulation runs differently when you are in render distance. I believe these problems only occur when you are able to observe them

[drowsy tiger]

Quantum Wave function collapse granularity proving the universe is a simulation! lol j/k

[prisma kraken]

i find it somewhat unsettling that some unintended behaviors are observable and emerge from the complexity of the game's simulation logic

[drowsy tiger]

I'm a math/physics guy not a programmer so I'm limited in understanding how the engine actually enforces consistency in tick rates under other load. But even the optimal scenario is under the 40.. so thats all I got.

[prisma kraken]

this bugs me

[oblique hollow]

From dev comments, factory logic goes something like this:

When on low fps the game time does not reflect factory sim. For example your game runs at 40 ms. Factory is clamped at 30 ms. Which means the factory sim loses 10 ms. So the end result is that all factory sim will be 10 ms (25%) slower.
This is done to avoid errors

we can only move 1 item per "substep" per frame from a belt to a belt
substeps are factory tick related
if we are sub 30 fps we add a substep
so we run the factory tick twice
hence factory time != game time
we also clamp the factory tick delta time for this reason
if the game hitches, means the factory logic is technically "paused" for that period of time

the most recent change to the system, afaik, is that belts and pipes are now handled by the GPU

[pallid knoll]

Does a splitter have specific speed? Or can I just use a mk3 belt?

[pulsar notch]

splitters have no innate speed

[violet halo]

It can use whatever you attach to it. It has a small internal buffer, to help overcome any speed mismatches.

[pulsar notch]

it's all based on attached belts

[prisma kraken]

inline 4x4 balancer

probably not going to end up using it, but started on it before bed last evening and decided to bp it

[oblique hollow]

i found a way to force the game to have stutters

and i now see regular mk 6 belt gaps

it has something to do with the subticks

or whatever else the game is forced to do below 30 fps

[prisma kraken]

just watch during an autosave 🙂

[oblique hollow]

OH WOW WTF

this is weirdly consistent now

i set my fps max to 32 fps

[prisma kraken]

unless you're really building minimalistically, your save file is big enough by the time you unlock mk6's to see a stutter

[oblique hollow]

and its just shitting itself

[prisma kraken]

that doesn't surprise me, honestly

[oblique hollow]

im kinda tempted to ping ben with this

[prisma kraken]

my hmf factory is sort of serving as a canary in the coal mine, having several miners at 1200 as input, if i see the manufacturers on the output end start tanking in efficiency, i'm going to start digging into it all

[oblique hollow]

just look at this

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, yeah

[oblique hollow]

at exactly 32 fps

the mk 6 belts lose 240/min throughput

[prisma kraken]

its a 'feature' 🙂

that's 20% loss, right?

[oblique hollow]

yes

the closer you are to 32 fps, the worse it is

if you are below 32, its better

if you are above, its also better

32? terrible

[prisma kraken]

probably why when i capped my belt updates at 30 fps i saw problems lessen considerably

[oblique hollow]

i used t.MaxFPS for this

if you wanna verify, try it

[prisma kraken]

i'm not familiar with the console variables

[oblique hollow]

this is similar to the max fps setting in the options

just enter 32 there

[prisma kraken]

gotcha, i'm working on stuff atm, may take a look later

[versed violet]

Splitters and mergers have "infinite" speed. You are limited by the fastest belt attached. Which some people exploited in the past by attaching splitter directly to miner output via save editing, to extract full 1200 from pure node.

[true pier]

I'm currently setting up my train system and I was wondering if coal is used in large quantites in the late game?

[charred saffron]

Coal's mostly gonna be big for steel, but I don't think you need it in massive quantities besides steel and (iirc) diamonds late game

[magic island]

diamonds gobble up entire nodes of coal/oil at alarming rates

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you end up needing tons for diamond/time crystal

[magic island]

however, I wouldn't worry about future-proofing your current factory for diamonds. it will probably be least disruptive and most efficient to seek out new coal/oil nodes for that, and then round up the diamond product from the satellite locations

[prisma kraken]

because it is a 10:1 boil-down just to diamond and then 2:1 diamond->t crystal, probably makes more sense to be marshalling the end products instead of the raw coal

[true pier]

my goal is to have a megabase with everything made in it with trains coming in with every ressource

we'll see

[prisma kraken]

inadvisable, but we all tried it once. you'll have fun learning 🙂

the more refined you can make goods where you mine them, the less logistic infrastructure you need to build

[true pier]

I will have 8 trains with 16 wagons each

[prisma kraken]

seems like too small of a number, honestly

i mean, i'm pushing around 8 train cars of rubber alone at this point

[magic island]

ore is usually not great to transport unless you have no choice (ie, if it needs to be combined with something else that isn't available near the node)

pretty much the only time I ever put ore on a train is for aluminum, since the resources involved tend not to be right next to each other

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you either need to get alum to copper or copper to aluminum for most uses

[true pier]

with 1200 rubber/min in each wagon?

[prisma kraken]

i have 2 4-car trains moving around a total of 3600/min of rubber. one train wasn't enough

similarly, i have 2 4-car trains moving 1740/min iron ingots around

just a function of how big the cars are and how far the trains need to travel

[true pier]

yeah with 1200/min with each wagon you need a train coming in every 3 min

[prisma kraken]

each car for the rubber is averaging 225/min.

you'll be hard pressed to have any non-trivial train routes that are that short of a round trip

the load & unload sequences alone are about a minute of that time

i'd say my average route time for trains on my network is probably around 5 minutes with quite a bit of variance

the train network isn't very large either

when you start doing hauls from like deep dune desert across the top of the map to rocky desert, trip times can get rather lengthy

[true pier]

but if you put enough trains that one train comes every 3 min ?

[prisma kraken]

that is one of several solutions

[true pier]

does that wait for every wagon to be fully loaded/unloaded or just one of them?

[prisma kraken]

i like to keep my trains to a 4 freight car length so they can negotiate height changes with ease - after 5 freight cars you need to start doubling up engines on the train to be able to climb inclines

[true pier]

i have 4 locomotives with 16 wagons

[prisma kraken]

i do not monkey with the default settings much at all

unless there is something very exceptional i'm needing to do, i just let trains schedule themselves and spread out at the timing the rail signals allow for

when you start changing those settings, it becomes very non-intuitive what is happening and behaviors such as priority inversions can manifest

train can't leave a station because something it needs to load is being starved because another train is waiting on a full load, etc

in addition to that, those settings don't work quite how you'd expect. there's some bugs with it where the triggers for loading and leaving stations trigger at the incorrect times (when a stack has a single item in the storage slot instead of a full stack)

[hearty flower]

Last time I tested it, it waits for all the cars to be empty/full

[prisma kraken]

it all adds additional complexity onto something that is pretty complicated already

i'm speaking of the 'wait until full' in my example

[true pier]

that's a shame

I just want a train going every 3 min but if it starts to get blocked and desync then i dont have 3 min between each train anymore

[prisma kraken]

imho, i really feel that the game needed one more update where they focused on polishing the train behaviors and made rails easier to build

[verbal fjord]

is nitro rocket fueld a good alt?

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, if you have a ton of sulphur available

[hearty flower]

It could work if you balance the loading/unloading at each station I suppose

[prisma kraken]

it is easy to build for tons of power, but resource-wise, you'll do better with blended tf + default rf

[true pier]

yeah i guess but i dont have 1200 for every ressource in each wagon

or i mix both ressource then smart split them

[hearty flower]

Yeah, and the whole train has to be 1 resource otherwise one could back up while the other starves

[true pier]

or sink

[unborn ermine]

this tbh, I used this because, less sulphur needed, hadnt tapped my oil yet, and I wanted to save a bit on nitrogen @verbal fjord

[true pier]

excess

[true pier]

i used it it's simple factory

[prisma kraken]

your idea of centralizing everything is something we've all tried before. I'll tell you that it doesn't work so well in my personal experience, but i think it is sort of a lesson one needs to learn themselves to really understand why.

[true pier]

I don't like the idea of building many factories lol

but I understand your point

[prisma kraken]

what sort of happens is everything just keeps getting more and more complicated and you start running out of space for belts to run to move stuff around and like eventually you kind of just give up on it all after tons of special casing and hammering the round pegs into square holes, etc

trains do have a lot of capacity and there are tricks to get them to have even more than 2 belts worth of capacity per freight, but they still take up gobs of space and moving a lot of ores around just isn't very good

kind of the default number i use for ore/min i go by in calculations for trains is that i can usually count on 600/min per train car if the train is just doing a miner<->factory loop

[true pier]

is there a list of all the available ressource in the game?&

[prisma kraken]

the calculator at satisfactorytools.com has a list of map limits in its factory planner

[true pier]

thanks

[prisma kraken]

that's pretty much what you can mine/min with the addition of 'practically infinite water'

[true pier]

from my calculations I need double the train stations

[prisma kraken]

oh oops, in what i posted the amt of SAM is double the map limit

(i just grabbed that from a random tab i have open, sorry)

[true pier]

that's fine

[prisma kraken]

speaking from a lot of experience, the ore limit that you always hit first is bauxite

[wanton sky]

How is this spot for my first oil base ? I picked it for the 3 oil nodes and I got iron and copper nearby so I don’t have to bring in other resources from another base

[hushed kettle]

it's very good, i set up my power plant there but you'll probably want the three pure nodes more later

I'm in the process of (procrastinating) rebuilding rn and kind of wish I'd picked a worse spot lol

[sly fjord]

Its very good for turbo or rocket fuel as there is both oil, coal and sulfur there.

[wanton sky]

Should I pick a different spot then I’m looking to manufacture plastic and the other oil products I don’t have a need to fuel rn I need to research it

[sly fjord]

You dont really need that much fuel for turbo or rocket fuel to get energy out of it.

Its not the easiest place to transport things out of tho, there are some height.

[wanton sky]

So with 3 nodes I can do plastic rubber and fuel ?

I’m mainly on plastic and rubber rn but I’m sure I will need a good fuel factory in the near future

[sly fjord]

I think I have something like 14 000 MW from 450 or so oil there turbo fuel. without some recopies to make even more per oil.

I would say its enough, maybe just spare one of them for power.

There are more oil there that isnt pure too

[prisma kraken]

blue crater is one of the best spots in 1.0 to build pretty much anything but aluminum (lack of bauxite). Many people build a yellow/turbo/rocket fuel power plant there b/c it has the nitrogen and sulfur and coal available

the other resources lying around aren't to be dismissed either, plenty of iron and coal for steel, a fair bit of copper and some caterium a short ways away

[molten light]

What was the expirience?

[sly fjord]

I would argue its fine if your main base, or focused area is Grass Fields. If you main area is Dune desert, or Rocky Desert, its easier to set up plastic and robber in one of the coast oil areas.

[unborn ermine]

Its the "practical" maximum

Man discord time warped

dont mind me

[prisma kraken]

well, i mean, i stopped paying attention to the chat here for a while because i was getting upset by him. never lodged a complaint except to tell him i didn't appreciate it in public

[prisma kraken]

hate it when that happens

[wanton sky]

Ok imma make some factory desings then and post them here before getting to building

[prisma kraken]

or canyon for dune desert

[sly fjord]

That too

[prisma kraken]

BC is a great spot, everything they changed with in 1.0 makes it a lot more attractive

my only wish is that there were a little more caterium around the area instead all being in the swamp's death cave, lol

[prisma kraken]

its too bad there isn't some late game tech for allowing you to increase clock rates past 250

[true pier]

which recipe do you guys use for ficsite ingot?

[prisma kraken]

atm, i'm working off my initial ad-hoc build of it using iron, but the plan is to eventually transition over to using aluminum and sloop it when i get the pink forest settled

i've not found the need for a lot of volume for trigons yet, but when i start dealing with nuclear, yeah, that'll be a thing

the amt you need to complete the phase 5 delivery is really rather small

[unborn ermine]

Speaking of, looking at how much I want to make for Adaptive Control Units
15/min seems alright for a stable production without going overboard?
using it in its entirety leads to 15/min Bio sculptors later so, not terrible?

One of the things that sucks on a first dive into late game, you never know what too much or too little is

[prisma kraken]

its a good target, yeah. the conversion rate is like this

5x autowire -> 1x acu -> 0.5 ADS -> 2 BCS

[unborn ermine]

Apparently I will be able to get all the way to ADS's with my planned quartz purification area,
Just LOTS of leftover goodies to consider.

[prisma kraken]

the input list if you're interested

[unborn ermine]

Gotta love it when the site uses the OLD images still

[prisma kraken]

yeah, runesun did the bare minimum to get the code updated to 1.0 - probably just imported the new json, lol

i'm guessing the beacon icon just happened to match the same list spot as the BCS, lol

[unborn ermine]

Those numbers seem a bit off

double the trigons and super comps

[prisma kraken]

lemme double check

[prisma kraken]

trigons look right

you're looking at 15/min output, i have 30/min, so double. the stators and wire seem about the same because my listing used autospeed wiring instead of the default

[unborn ermine]

Yeah but you never stated the 30/min till now

[prisma kraken]

um...

[unborn ermine]

Like I say, the other sites, harder for me to read.

I saw 15 buildings

[prisma kraken]

yeah, sorry, i didn't write the code, lol

[unborn ermine]

I get pretty locked in at times too, like I was mentioning 15/min and saw 15.
Boom

[prisma kraken]

happens to me often too D:

in any event, 15 acu's/min is a good target, i like the fact that all the numbers are 5x 2 or 3 which makes for easy OC'ing to 250 with balanced input

(turns 10->4 & 15->6)

for expensive parts, i really prefer perfect splitting of inputs

[unborn ermine]

Nice, really only shot for 15 because I was looking at a spot nearby, limited by limestone, and wanted to make HMF without rubber (to which I could supply) but dont want to

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i bit the bullet on rubber concrete a while ago and one of my first big builds was just to turn 4800 limestone into rubber concrete

that's where 960/min of my rubber is going, lol

could have done it in other ways, but getting concrete squared away early seemed good to me

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, the spot here would be pretty gross if I did multiple stops.
Plan is, train from oil sending rubber/plastic down and by the coast, around and up the beach to the north of my purification plant.

The HMF would be where the coal is.

Have to decide if I want to do drones or not for HMF. Could potentially use my gross ass belt+rail setup again

[prisma kraken]

one thing i'll mention just as an idea for you to think about... in my last playthrough (north forest's iron glenn was my start), i just built concrete constructor microfactories at all the limestone nodes and rounded up the concrete with a tractor. worked pretty well and you can get 2x belt speed out of a truck stop

rather than messing with wet or rubber concrete, i just built a lot of small factories

[twin geyser]

Can anyone help me with the math on conveyors?

[unborn ermine]

Might do that tbh, since I was going to grab that lone normal node to the south of the coal. very gross spot.

[prisma kraken]

as a 500 stack item, vehicles work exceptionally well

[swift osprey]

Does anyone know how to get a message to a dev regarding a game update idea? Or if you even can. I had an idea that I thought would be really good for satisfactory and didn't know how to get it across

[prisma kraken]

without knowing the question, i'm not sure people can respond to whether they can help 🙂

[pallid knoll]

What is the best way to go to the oil? My first factory is at the left red corner, It is best to build a factory right there?

[brisk shore]

Satisfactory Questions

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com
<3 @prisma kraken

[violet halo]

If you a straight line, lower the right to even, then make the turn up the river.

[twin geyser]

alr i have a 341.25 iron rod/min on a conveyor belt and my goal is to separate it into two separate conveyors, but one at 195 iron rods/min and the other 146.25 iron rods/min

[molten light]

Just make a straight line of pipe trhough ur base and just don't care about anything

😉

[twin geyser]

But i dont know how to divide the conveyor and modify the flow rate at the same time

If u need schematic here u go

[pallid knoll]

So hypertube it is?

[molten light]

No, just pipe of oil, or I get you wrong? U need oil, right?

[molten light]

If yes, this is the best way

[pallid knoll]

Yeah I need oil

[prisma kraken]

those are gross numbers. perfect splitting isn't going to be tenable without some really nasty belting (you shouldn't even think about entertaining it). Instead, you wish to use a manifold to overflow from the screw constructors into whatever else needs the rods

[pallid knoll]

So just bring a pipe of oil al the way down to my base

[molten light]

exactly

<3

[twin geyser]

I cant overflow anything, im running at conveyor limits

[molten light]

I always do it in my games

[prisma kraken]

break the build in half then

[twin geyser]

Its a modular frame factory, if i do that im getting like 1/min

But ill try my best to overflow it

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, sorry the base recipes for iron kind of suck like that

[twin geyser]

Yeah i know hahaha

[violet halo]

If you make an overage a step earlier, the system will fill up and reduce itself to what's needed.

[twin geyser]

Refineries are the best structures, everything is mathemathically perfect

[violet halo]

Unless you're capped by belt or pipe speed.

[twin geyser]

mk6 belts are unvencible

but they are expensive as fuck, thats why im using mk5 in this build

[pallid knoll]

Why can't I cut this?

[violet halo]

Some of the things you can't cut, can be blown up.

[prisma kraken]

they're expensive, but by the time you get them unlocked, just tap a pure coal node and pipe it into a PA for diamonds and then set up an adhoc smelting thing for iron->trigon near some sam and still em all in depots and you shouldn't have problems building mk6 belts

[twin geyser]

Ikr

[prisma kraken]

i use them sparingly for many reasons, but just a small amt of production is enough for my needs

[prisma kraken]

that one might be bombable, try a nobelisk

[twin geyser]

mk6 belts are for a beginning of a factory where u usually get bottlenecked by the belts, but mk6 move 1200 objects a minute, they are awesome

[twin geyser]

They updated it, all of them are now, try it if u want to

[prisma kraken]

the big ones in blue crater and spire are not

i do believe the one pictured is however

[warm bane]

Do the back locomotive contribute to the speed of the train in bi-directionnal trains ?

[amber jacinth]

Number crunching for ficsonium & sloops is... interesting

[pallid knoll]

i'm not far enough yet

almost got killed by this posion, what do i need to take to resist it?

[amber jacinth]

[pallid knoll]

or destroy it

Ugh haha not far enough yet to make it

[charred saffron]

Bomb it or make gas masks to be immune to the effect for a limited period of time

[warm bane]

You can make nobelisk very early on, just explore a bit to find some pipes near crash sites, get some sulfur, and here you go

[prisma kraken]

you can blow up a lot of rocks (and the gas pillars) with nobelisks or explosive rebar. to resist the poison, get a gas mask & filters

nb: while it is worth automating filter making, one stack of them lasts quite a long while, so don't stress if you resort to hand-crafting them

[warm bane]

Filter automation is probably quite a long way for him, since you need manufacturer for those

[amber jacinth]

This may be of interest to you, moon 👀

[prisma kraken]

ahh, true, forgot that that needs the big boy

[warm bane]

Making a chain to automate Iodine filters looks so damn painful if you want to source things localy
You need coal, iron, oil (for fabric), caterium and aluminium

[prisma kraken]

can you explain it a bit more? i'm not quite sure how to interpret what you are doing

[amber jacinth]

Trying to determine the most efficient place to use sloops on in the ficsonium chain

Minimizing SAM usage and minimizing sloops

[prisma kraken]

ahh, walk me through the columns

it looks like your input sam is too high btw

[amber jacinth]

yeah

[prisma kraken]

should be 10200

[amber jacinth]

I started from the output of FFR's- the red box, and calculated backwards to see the SAM used

That's how much it needs, asssuming no sloops are used

If you use 18 FFR's instead it does give nicer numbers

[prisma kraken]

yeah, 18 QEncs for FFR's slooped at 250% is pretty much what i see as the practical limit

[amber jacinth]

18750 sam

[prisma kraken]

you can definitely squeeze more out if you start sacrificing elevator parts

well, slooping the converters for a total of 20 sloops puts you back into the comfort zone

[amber jacinth]

The most SAM-efficient step is slooping the FFR's themselves- which makes sense, as the DMR output is greater and can be recycled more effectively. Plus, this grants you double efficiency on everything before it.

[prisma kraken]

i count that you need a total of 92 sloops to pull off 225 fics rods/min

yeah, slooping the FFR's makes them produces as much DMR as the ikea lamps need

i'm guessing that was intentionally designed to be so

[amber jacinth]

But gad, 4 sloops per Q.E. is... nutty

[prisma kraken]

yep, 18 of them need 72 sloops

but 92 is a good number for a total used, gives enough left for a floating sloop and an APA

(or 4 APA's exactly if you nabbed the bonus bug sloops)

[amber jacinth]

Ah, I just realized my sloop counts are doubled... whoops

[prisma kraken]

happens, i've been working through the math on it all since release day, lol

made that mistake quite a few times

[amber jacinth]

ah, much better

hmm... 26 sloops can bring this line down to 4750 SAM, if you sloop the ficsonium accelerators & the ingot converters

[amber basin]

ah.. it looks so good! i started to make my own excel.. but i am completely lost lol

[prisma kraken]

i do most of my game calculations using the sp.runesun.com planner for the game. it really does a lot of what i need it to do

[golden smelt]

here is basically what I did to my fuel gens and its still not working properly.

@prisma kraken

im guessing I need to set it up in smaller sections

[prisma kraken]

kind of what i initially suggested, but @vapid gorge may have some other suggestions for you that might work before you tear things up

[pallid knoll]

one hour later 😄

[prisma kraken]

sounds about right, lol

at least pipe can now be made with iron

[unborn ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/rejoicing-gif-5149119

[golden smelt]

@prisma kraken update, after waiting for a little, the off gens have started to turn on

[prisma kraken]

well, always prefill your pipes and generators before connecting the cords

[golden smelt]

lesson learned

🫡

went from being 10kMW under max con to 20k above

[amber jacinth]

Think I found the best option-
Slooping the RSAM constructors, DMR converters, and the ingot converters gives 34 sloops used to 3125 SAM. Best weighted ratio I could get.

(Also assuming no slooping on the last two steps, as that skews the inputted plutonium waste, which I want to stay constant)

Yum, math

[prisma kraken]

what's the plut waste input?

75/min?

[amber jacinth]

150/min

My plan is the this

[prisma kraken]

i think you can make a lot more power than that with 60 urods/min

i'm looking at 1.5 tw as a design on 30 urods/min

[amber jacinth]

With efficient plutonium conversions?

[prisma kraken]

this is what i'm tenatively building towards

slooping the encoders on the back end ends up getting the build to 1.5tw

[amber jacinth]

I could sloop my FFR encoders for 150 FFR's 😛

[prisma kraken]

i personally think it makes sense to to eliminate the extra dmr you need

[vapid gorge]

what was this in regards to?

[amber jacinth]

Fair, fair.

[prisma kraken]

#math-and-meta message

[amber jacinth]

Doubling FFR's does also negate a good chunk of the power loss from producing them in the first place

[prisma kraken]

s/he's he person with the big fuel gen thing that isn't stabilizing

[vapid gorge]

hmm the diagram shows you sending MORE fuel to the section that already has 600 going through it?

[prisma kraken]

fics nuclear isn't something you build for its efficiency 🙂

[amber jacinth]

well, yes... but I may as well sloop for the fun

72 sloops, 2375 SAM... plenty left over for those other endgame items

[prisma kraken]

simplifies the build and doubles the frod power. i think that's a win

[amber jacinth]

true

[prisma kraken]

btw, you also need dark matter for the singularity cells, don't forget about that

[amber jacinth]

That's in there, yep

[amber jacinth]

This uses sloops on the FFR's, ficsite ingots, RSAM to DMR, and the SAM constructors

[prisma kraken]

i'm planning them to be a standalone process, need some for portals too and i'm hoping i can make the dmr for it from ionized fuel

[amber jacinth]

I always prefer my power to be separate from my production. Keeps things neat.

[prisma kraken]

i tend to agree with you, but i build in ways to minimize failure domains

[golden smelt]

I was just trying to show that all pipes have been connected

[frosty owl]

||1.0 acronims hit different ||

[prisma kraken]

without y's? 😄

[golden smelt]

I set it up so all the turbo fuel coming out of the refineries were connected and that one end attaches from the back of the gen lines and one from the front

[vapid gorge]

so really it was the 600 and 150 'merged' and then went and feed on a loop?

I'd avoid that just for the complexity

imo - break up the 2 TF producer groups into less than 600 pipes, that feed their own dedicated section of fuel gens.

loop the pipes like so, and flood each system

whenever possible? keep fluid systems to their own sections

[golden smelt]

so with the a pipe being ontop it stops the fluid from sloshing and backflowing?

[vapid gorge]

no, so the middle of the pipe gets back flow from the machines sucking fluid out - can't stop that. But you can manage it by having it loop to the other end.

initially flooding the system helps a lot for this as well

[frosty owl]

Also remember to actually use MK2 pipes

[vapid gorge]

you know I should actually test out how using mk1 pipes in a 600 loop works.

[golden smelt]

so the position of the loop doesnt matter, what matters is that you have the loop

[vapid gorge]

... ish?
It seems likely having the pipe loop below the feed loop is probably less stable.
Side? probably fine?
I like the top becaues it means the bottom pipe has gravity priority.

I'm not going to spend an ungodly number of hours trying to develop, and then test those things out

[vapid gorge]

so it's likely that this may be the most stable loop configuration.

but its not like other shapes don't work

[golden smelt]

so top works best because of gravity priority
side is ok just a little best efficient
and below is not that great

[vapid gorge]

none of this is about efficiency , it's about maintained flow
I've seen many side loops work

I've seen bottom loops work.

it's just, imo, more likely that hte top loop is more stable

[vapid gorge]

think of a pipe system like a jenga tower, the more unstable moves you do the more likely it'll collapse
so I generally suggest the most stable options at every opportunity

gives you more wriggle room in other spots where you may not want to or can't do the more stable move

[karmic crescent]

well i somehow still dont understand train signals... is there a way i can solve this situation so the middle one can be a block signal thats green by default? so trains dont break when approaching)

[golden smelt]

ok, im gonna first try a 600 loop and a 150 loop

if that doesnt work im gonna split the 600 into smaller loops?

does that sound about right

[vapid gorge]

sure? but it's always more stable to run shorter manifolds and less than 600. So up to you 🙂

like if hte 150 and 600 are even slightly close together I'd do like 400 and 350 loops

[golden smelt]

i mean if I pre fill the gens and pipes, that should allow for things to flow evenly?

[golden smelt]

ill try that out after this

[vapid gorge]

remember, make the 150 and 600 systems independent

[golden smelt]

yep, they're independant and my system has stabalized again

ill keep an eye on it to see if it slips

whats going on with my grid

there are these tiny bumps that increase or decrease my max power, and I feel like its so small to be something with my grid

[golden smelt]

@vapid gorge so I need 20.666667 refineries, do I set up a valve saying 66.6667% goes one way and 33.3334% goes another?

[oblique hollow]

no valve

just let the fluid do its thing

[wide veldt]

Actually that’s due to the tick rate of the conveyors and pumps going into energy plant and it can easily be fixed by going into settings and changing your tick rate to 173.3…….and I have no clue what I’m talking about but good luck

[oblique hollow]

more likely that its something like trains causing these bumps (of they have any)

cause when they brake, they generate power

[golden smelt]

😭

[golden smelt]

im getting a lot of mixed messages here

[oblique hollow]

nah, no valves is a pretty common message
you do not want to tamper with things you arent sure about

[golden smelt]

ok

[oblique hollow]

valves are an inherent risk.
If you use them and they dont work you gotta tear em out anyway
So why not just never install them to begin with

[golden smelt]

got it

[vapid gorge]

No just clock a group of refineries to make what you need and connect those

And like mcgal said - avoid valves

[golden smelt]

ok

I found a mistake in my refinery set up

didnt underclock one, now everything there is smooth

[pallid knoll]

I just connected my oil extractor with the powerline but it doesn't work?

I want to see where I need to place a pipeline pump but it doesn't start extracting

[oblique hollow]

does it actually have power tho

like, no broken fuse

[pallid knoll]

yes

I will check it

need to travel 5 mins 😂

Oh god forgot 1 powerline

[golden smelt]

@vapid gorge ended up doing the 450 and 300 split

now grid has finally stabalized, ty

[plain fossil]

is this a good idea?

im gonna let them fill up and then use the oil

for phase 4 things

[brisk smelt]

wwww---w-w-why...

[oblique hollow]

this seems pretty useless

[plain fossil]

for your misery

also bc the nearest oil is far

so i need a bunch in reserve

[magic island]

there are two outcomes here

outcome 1:

• you build up a supply of oil
• you build a setup that spends the oil faster than you produce it
• it works for a little while but the buffers eventually run out and the setup breaks

outcome 2:

• you build up a supply of oil
• you build a setup that spends the oil at the same rate you produce it (or less)
• the buffers did not help you in any way

[plain fossil]

uhh well about that

my setup uses almost three times less

but its a megabase im gonna make even mroe

[steel knot]

what am i missing in the behavior of refineries? i'm doing electrode aluminum scrap and i am clear on outputs (nothing is stacked up) but i'll see the machine fully loaded on inputs and idle

[plain fossil]

sometimes they idle even if the output has 10m3 less than max

[fallow siren]

[steel knot]

hmmm yeah weird. this one's idling mid production. not waiting, just paused 40% or so

then it'll start back up

[plain fossil]

weird

[steel knot]

more weirdness. this train was meant to stop and wait to be full. i have the proper and condition but it wasnt leaving despite full coal platform, and a full industrial. i stopped it to check its contents:

just stuck not being full

[plain fossil]

change the seconds value too

its defaulted to 15

i didnt see the "or" either the first time

[steel knot]

oops. keyboard malfunction. yeah it's set to 1

and set to 'and.' it was working fine and suddenly jammed

[latent anchor]

I was having a problem a few weeks ago where a train set to wait until full would never leave, because if one of the stacks in the cargo was partly full and the station tried to refill it the stack wouldn't accept items

not sure if it's been fixed yet, I don't want to have to build the setup for it at the moment

[vapid gorge]

Far doesn’t matter if you have throughput

If you don’t have through it’ll just break in the end and it’ll take forever to fill

Plus a good chance to screw your flow

[plain fossil]

yeah as i said i need way less

[prisma kraken]

you forgot outcome 3: oil sits there unused until you get sick of looking at it and delete the buffers

[prisma kraken]

really buffering production lines (same for belt products as liquids) won't ever make something run better or worse... if you use more than you consume, you'll run dry. if you use less than you consume, the stuff just sits there unused. you want consumption to equal production.

where buffers are useful is to smooth out burstiness (like from train delivery), that isn't something that happens from extractors to refineries

[plain fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/nodding-cute-adorable-gif-15807869

[prisma kraken]

haha

[velvet girder]

That's really good to know. Mathematically, I've figured even adding a .1 to part per minute would result in a backup anyway. The question I have now is related to the transport time between one machine to the next (ignoring rail transit). Does buffer help with lag time from the moment it leaves one machine until it gets into the next?

[unborn dome]

The large buffers just look cool af, so the Rule of Cool applies even if they aren't needed lol

Two of them are storing a ton of unnecessary fuel, one is empty, and one is the biofuel reserve, which is the only one which is legitimately useful, since it's a limited resource.

[unborn ermine]

Tbh holding onto fuel can be a good choice(different kinds ect.)
Like, I should probably have made some for my rocket fuel build, because it would be nice to be able to top of the system from the end if I have to fiddle with it.

[unborn dome]

Yeah, that's why I've got them

Not that I've ever needed them, but I have a LOT of reserves

[unborn ermine]

Packaged does the trick as well, but its more of an ad-hoc thing.

[unborn dome]

And it doesn't look as cool lol

[unborn ermine]

oof discord here is having issues, been trying to reply and its like a minute of refreshes to post.

[unborn dome]

Oh good, it's not just me having that issue 😅

[unborn ermine]

Lots of servers not connecting, guess its time to watch a video or something for a while
(totally not avoiding having to setup logistics and train routes/rails)

[prisma kraken]

sorry for the delay - discord being discord - my best guess is it doesn't make a difference

[eager solar]

are there alts simplifying the production of plutonium fuel rods, even at the cost of more power?

[prisma kraken]

kinda sorta?

the 3 alts for plut rods are fertile uranium, instant plut cell & plut fuel unit

fertile uranium isn't really simpler, just makes more non-fiss uranium from waste at the expense of uranium ore and still should be used with plut pellet into encased plut cell

[eager solar]

I'm already using all the uranium from my node for power, so I'd rather not use this one

[prisma kraken]

instant plut cell makes plut cells directly from non-fiss uranium and kinda sucks

and plut fuel unit makes rods from only PCC's & plut cells

[eager solar]

I'm at the point where I know how much power I will need to finish the game, and I'm trying to simplify the power plant so long as I make enough power for my project

[prisma kraken]

all of them are sort of designed to make you more plut rods than the base recipes and i wouldn't say they're simpler - maybe plut fuel unit's 2-ingredient is simpler, but it costs pressure cubes which are pricey things

[eager solar]

I see

I'll see if I can simplify the rest of the prod

might be able to simplify the alu part

[prisma kraken]

i do like using the plut unit recipe instead of the base because it is logistically simpler to use an assembler recipe

fertile uranium is an interesting recipe, it reduces a bit of the sulfur needed for recycling and I like it better, but I think it really is dependent on your tastes

if you aren't intending to burn the plut rods, the default recipe chain is probably the best to use

[eager solar]

alright, got it

I'm going to sink them

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'd spend a little time playing with the numbers nonetheless. plut rods are pretty good for drones if you don't mind the radiation

[eager solar]

I just never needed drones

and there is little point in starting that now

[prisma kraken]

a rod will also power a tractor for a few hours, lol

[eager solar]

In order to 'finish' the game, I only need to make a power plant, a belt mat line and the final spelev factory

yeah, I heard that

[unborn ermine]

Drones are like, when you want a train for lower throughput... but REALLY dont want to make tracks for it.

[eager solar]

The problem being, I want to make a drone fuel prod and distrib center even less

[prisma kraken]

that's selling them a bit short, i'd say

[eager solar]

I would have used drones if dim depot weren't a thing

[unborn ermine]

I mean Ive really only used them for a handful of things, so its on point for me

[eager solar]

maybe I will use them for that one last factory

with only 1 place using them with plut rods lmao

[prisma kraken]

they shine when you're moving a low volume something in one direction and returning something of similar volume on the return trip... packaged nitrogen for example

[unborn ermine]

I can defo see the use in some back and forth though for smaller throughput items being handy on return trips if you arent cycling canisters/tanks.

[prisma kraken]

taking hmf's to your fmf factory or fmf's to your PCC/pasta factory

that type of thing they're pretty good at

[eager solar]

I'm always building everything on site so the only things I ever move on great distances are raw mats

[prisma kraken]

the other place i really like using them is for distributing fuel for trucks & tractors

[eager solar]

And dim depot means you no longer need a mall so no real point to use them to bring back outputs

[unborn ermine]

Same, but nitrogen is a pain without drones, especially if you planned the way I did and split a resource well 3 ways

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i've got some jank going on with nitrogen, lol

[eager solar]

eh, nitro is easy as belts since no headlifts

[prisma kraken]

nitric acid is deceptively tricky to make right

[eager solar]

Just checked the planned place for my last fact, I got everything close by lmao

oh you mean acid

[unborn ermine]

Ive got 6 ports there, 4 for the nitrogen, 2 for a chain of fuel.
Nitrogen is going east up a cliff, south up a cliff, and south again... not up a cliff

[eager solar]

I'll be able to tap in different niro nodes for all my facts so not an issue here

[prisma kraken]

making the acid, it isn't conceptually hard to make, but splitting up what you make into amounts that go various places requires packaging it

[eager solar]

ALso, I ended up spending most of my game building on the west coast, because that area is op af

[unborn ermine]

Yeah what I am kind of planning if I dont use it all (acid) for my Heat Fused Frames, its going to be packed then drone'd over to another quartz plant.

[eager solar]

I see, this kind of problem is also why I make everything I need on site

[prisma kraken]

it depends on how big you are building

[eager solar]

I can imagine

[prisma kraken]

nitrogen gets really tight if you're building a big nuclear plant

[eager solar]

fair enough

[unborn ermine]

Like for my fuel/frames and aluminum I need to tap 2 wells

[eager solar]

I'm only building enough for me to finish spelev parts (and ideally be able to sloop them)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, heat fused frames gobble the stuff, lol

[eager solar]

I avoided that recipe because it looked painful to set up

[prisma kraken]

i think that recipe may be the worst thing to build in the game

each of the 4 ingredients needs a rather non-trivial feeding factory

needing HMF's alone is pretty bad

[unborn ermine]

The way I have things sorted its not "too" bad

[prisma kraken]

but fuel, nitric acid AND alum ingots, yeah, that's a lot of factory

[unborn ermine]

mostly just routing stuff and done.
ironically just need to make a bit of fuel and I can make them.

[eager solar]

alum ingots can be somewhat simple if you don't mind efficiency

[prisma kraken]

its still a lot of factory

[eager solar]

yeha

out of curiosity, what's the scale of your factories?

[unborn ermine]

I do unfortunately need to have excess fuel packaged and sunk

[prisma kraken]

idk, default plut rods may be worse, but heat fused is definitely top 5 things that take forever to make

[eager solar]

biggest I did has 339 buildings outside of miners and such

[prisma kraken]

idk even how i'd really count that

[unborn ermine]

Mine arent too crazy because PC
But I kinda had to sprawl for my oil stuff.

[eager solar]

calculator

[prisma kraken]

outside of a little oil on the gold coast, i've not really branched out much across the map

its a lot already though

[unborn ermine]

not too many objects yet

[eager solar]

not that different

[eager solar]

what counts as power storage? don't rember building any

[unborn ermine]

Ive got lots of sprawl

Augmenters do

they are "batteries"

[prisma kraken]

oh really? i didn't know they were counted as such

[eager solar]

I see

[unborn ermine]

You can click on the box to see whats in there too
Im assuming they have them like that so they work when the grid is down.

or some other thing

(I know nothing concrete)

[eager solar]

west coast is so damn good

I will make my nuclear plant in the swamp, spelev parts in the center lake and idk where I will do my mk6 belts prod yet

[prisma kraken]

woohoo, heatsinks are done

[eager solar]

congrats

[prisma kraken]

quite a lot of them too - 600/min

[eager solar]

that's alot

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i need them for RCU's

and cooling systems

[eager solar]

have fun with those

[prisma kraken]

the cooling systems are easy, the RCU's - i still need to build the HSC's

[eager solar]

hsc?

[prisma kraken]

i fricking hate the part high speed connectors

[eager solar]

oh right

which recipe do you use?

[prisma kraken]

i'll be using the silicon alt i think

not really thinking too much about it yet, i'm still trying to finish off what is around blue crater and east dune forest so i can be finished with the region

[eager solar]

good luck

[wary storm]

Are there production planners that account for byproducts?

e.g. I want to make a closed processing of 2700 oil into plastic, so I have to turn some of the oil into rubber so I can use it with the heavy oil>fuel to make recycled plastic and end up without byproducts

[patent blaze]

You dont have to make rubber from oil

Just make a rubber plastic loop and feed it enough materials to kickstart it and use a smart splitter to make sure it doesnt run out

[wary storm]

what do you mean

[patent blaze]

It wont work for the first time you set it up because you have to insert plastic or rubber manually to start it up

[vapid gorge]

Just use the resin to make starter rubber

[patent blaze]

Oh i was gonna make filters lol

I guess that works too

[bronze barn]

That's the default start to oil tripling - Start with rubber from the resin and go from there

[bronze barn]

It depends! SF Tools can incorporate by product into the build again depending on needs, but sometimes you will end up with a byproduct line (like shown above) - This is when you can either sink it or look up what else to use it for youself and include that

[patent blaze]

Guess i got trauma from the first time i set it up with the resin->rubber

I spent hours clocking the machines cause the numbers got so goofy lol

[bronze barn]

It's usually not bad for that part imo

In the above it's 20 refineries at base clock (40 resin to 20 rubber with some added water)

[patent blaze]

Yeah but the loop thing gets crazy

31.11111 and 75.5555 each

[bronze barn]

Yea those are much harder to balance, but you could do 31 and 1 at 11.111% and 75 and 1 at 55.555%

[patent blaze]

1 at 11.111 is psychotic

[bronze barn]

At the end of the I've also began liking building those that require start up input for their simplicity since you can do nothing but loop back half of the output from one into the other and get away from there

[vapid gorge]

You’d only need a bit of resin rubber as a tiny starter

[prisma kraken]

the rubber loop is actually pretty easy to clock and remember, the plastic one, i can never remember how to clock it, but know how to derive the numbers

[fossil galleon]

does ANYONE know what the hell is causing this???

my grid just dies

it's been doing it since yesterday and all I've been doing is building a train network

[half spindle]

seems like your power generation is the problem

[fossil galleon]

how? production is sable and the only fluctuation is because of a geothermal generator

something looks like it's disconnecting from the main grid, but why the hell would it do that

all generators are full of fuel so they shouldn't just die like that

[leaden cosmos]

Trains 🙂

[fossil galleon]

I found out what's going on

every time I place a rail it dips like that

[leaden cosmos]

Hoverpack?

[fossil galleon]

nope, I'll see if I can send a clip of it

damn file is too large

[upbeat salmon]

Hi, is there a website or tool, that can help optimize my factory? I have 3 iron notes, so bringing 180 iron ore per minute in, i would like a way to calculate the most effective factory to create iron plate, iron rod and screws

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[upbeat salmon]

yeah thank you saw the pins, but both websites need you to say how much you wanna produce, not how much you can produce with a give resource input

[past reef]

you can choose maximize and set input?

[upbeat salmon]

ah i see, thank you !

[fiery yacht]

should i get bolted iron plates or steel screws or reroll? im in phase 2 rn

[wind spade]

I've already linked you to the message that answers your question

#math-and-meta message

[pulsar notch]

my pressure conversion cube factory is kinda becoming a major part of my factory overall just because my battery manufacturing is also in the same building, and so I send drones out with batteries from there to all my other drone loops.

[fresh mesa]

if my math is right, to burn 2400 rocket fuel, i need 600 gens?

[magic island]

576 generators at 100%

or 600 gens at 96%
or 240 gens at 240% (cute, clean!)

[unborn dome]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[brisk smelt]

hm should be enough headlift right?

[prisma kraken]

rule of thumb... the extractor is about 10m high - same as its headlift

i've never had a problem if the pipe's level is below the extractor's indicator light 🙂

[oblique hollow]

questionable.
Might be at the limit
Better be safe than sorry, use a pump

its just 4 MW

[unborn ermine]

I always measured, and put a pump... maybe I should take a look and see how close that is

[prisma kraken]

honestly, it is about the same height, i've never had a problem with the estimation (probably the pump is just shy of its headlift height)

i also think you actually get around 12m of headlift out of them

[unborn dome]

Say I have a long vertical pipe, with a pump at the bottom with sufficient headlift to reach the top, and a fluid buffer attached at a pipe junction half-way up.

If the input to the pump at the bottom is removed, but it's kept powered, will it apply its headlift to the contents of the fluid buffer to send them to the top of the pipe?

[oblique hollow]

sorry, where is this buffer?
halfway up the pipe?
just so im reading right

[unborn dome]

Yeah, like part-way up the pipe, such that the pipe extends past the top of the buffer, and so the buffer's own headlift is effectively negated.

[oblique hollow]

a buffer can only apply headlift equal to its own height.
Pipes in general, without the help of pumps, can go down as much as they want
but when they rise up, they can only go back up to the height where they started at

[unborn dome]

Yeah, so would the pump at the bottom of the vertical pipe pump the buffer's contents up to the top, even if the input pipe on the pump is disconnected?

[oblique hollow]

you can just have a pipeline pumps connected sideways to a junction with only the output side connected and it will pump

fluid doesnt have to go through a pump to go up

it only has to be connected to the pump's output side

[unborn dome]

Oh nice, that's cool. So basically as long as the fluid buffer is someplace in-line with the pump's output pipe, it should get the benefit of full headlift going up higher than the tank.

Well, not directly in-line, attached via junction.

[oblique hollow]

basically this

[oblique hollow]

as long as fluid can reach the pump's output, the pump will tell all it "you can go x m high"

[unborn dome]

Yeah basically, except it looks like this

So if you cut the pipe at the bottom-left, it should drain the fluid buffer to send all the way up

[oblique hollow]

as long as the pump output is there, it should work

[oblique hollow]

works and is surprisingly broken. this is more than 50 m, but i primed it

as long as water manages to reach the pump the first time, you get pressure 50 down from the pump and 50m up from the pump

[unborn dome]

Haha interesting, that's a convenient limitation of the fluid simulation.

[haughty badger]

what the fuck

[unborn dome]

So if you cut off that extractor, and put a fluid buffer in at the lower junction, does the buffer get drained to send water over the top?

[oblique hollow]

should

[uncut owl]

Does anyone know how I could evenly divide 1 input into 5 outputs?

[unborn dome]

Do you need them evenly divided, like with nuclear fuel, or will a manifold suffice?

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[uncut owl]

I’m trying to take the alumina scrap from 1 refinery and evenly distribute it to 5 smelters. I’m new-ish and struggle a tad with belt work

[unborn dome]

Yeah just manifold it like Greeny described

From the wiki

[uncut owl]

Ok thank you!

[livid turret]

I do something similar to the water tower concept but it's only one pipe with a connected junction before and after the pump, then this is connected at the same bottom while the pipe with the pumps ascend vertically leading to the sky

[unborn dome]

Manifold should be your standard go-to - it's easy, more space-efficient, and it's rare you need to actually evenly divide belts perfectly.

[charred saffron]

Load balancing (aka equally dividing outputs) can be fun, but is unnecessary effort. Manifolds work easier and more space efficient solely by the fact every machine can only take as much as it needs once its stack and attached belt is full

[oblique hollow]

Ok correction: seems the system is smart enough to not fall for this cheap trick

[unborn dome]

Which part, buffer lower than pump?

[oblique hollow]

if nothing is there to prevent fluid from flowing back, it will just flow back into the buffer

on machines it works because machines are one-way

[unborn dome]

Ah ok, that makes sense. So it does work if the pump is at the lower junction and the buffer is at the upper junction?

[brisk smelt]

only use is with radioactive materials

[oblique hollow]

it DOES work if the buffer have a valve on the output

[brisk smelt]

ie supplying drones with plu rods

[oblique hollow]

but if theres bidirectional flow then the fluid just flows back into the buffer

so you do need to prevent fluid from flowing back into the buffer

[unborn dome]

Hmm ok, so that would only work if you run the pipe through the buffer, and not just T-junction the buffer into the pipe.

Like if you wanted the buffer to stay filled up when the pump does have something connected to its input

[oblique hollow]

yes. one pipe would need to fill the buffer with a valve, another drains it with a valve

so one-way flow must be enforced

this doesnt work for example

there is a valve but there is no flow

[unborn dome]

Does it work if you put the buffer where the pump is, and the pump where the buffer is?

[wheat lake]

hows this factory? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=0JxoGBADDyV0uQXLpxO3

[prisma kraken]

besides unbuilt?

[pallid knoll]

I want to use my Iron in one setup where I make everything that includes iron without copper or cole.
So just a basic setup.

Does this look good? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=9O3ZG6BQnSNRQsdR8pJF

I get 480 iron/min, so the 150 iron I will use for another setup for framework and other things that include iron to complete

[wind spade]

screws are not really useful in anything and definitely not in 40/min amount