math-and-meta

[wind spade]

so ask in the channel and people that know will answer

don't ping random people in hopes they know the answer, unless the question is specifically directed at them (e.g. because it's a question about something only that person knows)

[thorn trellis]

Alr to general I go

[hazy dagger]

eeeh no the exit on the far left will get way more output than the 6 other output

[night ether]

should i make 160 iron plates/min or 80 is enough

[wind spade]

even like 30 is probably enough

[night ether]

im thinking 1 pure iron for both plates and rods

[wind spade]

most items are needed in like 5-15/min amounts

maybe concrete or belt materials could be used in higher amounts

[prisma kraken]

yeah, concrete, lol

i can't even tell you how much i'm making b/c every time i see a limestone node, i'll drop a few constructors around a miner on it with a depot, lol

[zenith hare]

Relatively new player. I have a pure coal node. Right now I'm running 100% efficiency at my coal power plant by limiting the coal production from 120 to 90, and having three water producers limited from 360 to 300 (as that's the max my pipes can carry), and 6 Burners. But if I wanted to increase to 120 coal, I'm not sure how to do that because I would need 360 Water, which is more than my pipes can handle.

[prisma kraken]

for most parts though, a single machine making the part is usually adequate for building needs

[prisma kraken]

this should be helpful:

[heavy gust]

am i the only one that doesnt like geothermal generators because the power line is no longer flat?

[ionic pumice]

very quick question: currently on t4, first playthrough, and I'd like to know if there's a way, later on in the base game, to send stuff out of a container with specific conditions (when it's full, 90% full, 50% full, etc)
for perspective, here's why I'm asking this question: I have a setup sending my factory output into dimensional depot, and a smart splitter taking any overflow into an awesome sink. However, my storage for modular frames is always empty because of this, and I'm limited to the 2 stacks (100 modular frames) in my dimensional depot. This is an issue if I need a huge amount of those in bulk. My only solutions right now are, either to expand my modular frames factory, or to remove them from my sink line.

[prisma kraken]

that is from McGalleon's pipe manual, you can find a link to it in the channel pins

(tbh, you should be able to interact with the 'fluid dynamics for pioneers' book in the hub and have that open for you, lol

[prisma kraken]

1. put a storage container between the output line and the dimensional depot to provide a quick upload cache 2) have your smart splitter direct to that container first before overflowing to the sink

there's a reason the depots stack on top of storage containers 🙂

but there's no concept of conditional dynamic item routing in the game, just overflow and item filtering that you already have*

[ionic pumice]

I see
that means I'd need to change the whole setup
I've been using the smart splitters to deal with 2 production lines at a time

[prisma kraken]

*trains do have some limited capabilities for that all, but it isn't worth the trouble and often is more of a square-peg-round-hole sort of thing

pretty nuts & bolts configuration i use:

[ionic pumice]

so you essentially use the smart splitter before storage, whereas I opted to use it after
I can work with something like that

[prisma kraken]

well, i route to storage first with the smart splitter

at this point, (i've completed the game), but am still going to set up a centralized item mall and remove such things from all my satellite factories, but i'm not in any rush with that all

i have a decent enough transport infrastructure going that if i need something in bulk, i can just run to the factory and fill my inventory with the part.. doesn't happen out of great need very often and not when i'm building

[ionic pumice]

that's what mine looks like

the mergers below are taking input from two production lines and sending it to the smart splitter

I was short on mats at the time ^^

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you want your storage to be a terminus, when you use storage's output, it isn't storage anymore 🙂

[ionic pumice]

right

[prisma kraken]

the depot is an exception because it becomes just a few stacks more of storage

[ionic pumice]

I've been using storage as buffer a lot, which is maybe why I didn't think twice about setting it up this way

[edgy leaf]

what if i use the input of the storage /foreheadtap.gif/

[prisma kraken]

which in my experience isn't very good practice. buffers mask production problems by time-shifting when production over/underruns occur

[prisma kraken]

too early for me to laugh

[bleak ivy]

is this the way to get the most turbofuel out of a given amount of oil?

recipe wise

[edgy leaf]

yep

tho id recommend doing normal diluted fuel if you have blenders

[prisma kraken]

default turbofuel gives the max per crude; blended tf gives max per sulfur

[bleak ivy]

im tier 6 rn, pretty much done everything but i want a lot of power before going to next tier

[edgy leaf]

i personally would just get to t7 and then do the fuel with blenders but i can see why youd want to do fuel first

[prisma kraken]

with either recipe, you need fuel which, as laura said, is best made with dilluted (packaged) fuel

[tropic hawk]

yes

[bleak ivy]

since the sulfur demand is really high i was thinking of just not making turbofuel and using the 3200 fuel to make 40gw (which can be expanded later)

[tropic hawk]

start looking at Rocket Fuel production lines

[tropic hawk]

for midgame power, i definitely recommend Diluted Fuel Power Plants, as it gives you the most power for a not that complex production line

[prisma kraken]

40 gw of power with 900 crude + 600 sulfur:

[bleak ivy]

does blended turbofuel have the same production as the regular turbofuel recipe?

just simpler cause no packaging

[prisma kraken]

no, it needs coke instead of coal, so some of the hor you make goes to that

[tropic hawk]

no, TFB does coke and sulfur instead of CC, which tends to lessen the usage of sulfur per TF, at the cost of oil

righto, back to doing math on Power Production per Resource, comparing Nuclear and Rocket Fuel

[honest wyvern]

it may not be much but it will help me build mk3 belts everywhere else

[prisma kraken]

this is essentially the build i did for the plan i showed

[bleak ivy]

ic

was thinking id build it on this corner of the map since theres 2 pure sulfur nodes pretty close to the oil

and water

[prisma kraken]

well, i mean, you have 3 sulfur nodes right next to each other in blue crater for a total of 2100/min, you only need 600, lol

[bleak ivy]

ah yeah

[bleak ivy]

i think i will just go to tier 7 to do this yeah

[plain fossil]

started localising my nearby resources, hopefully i can actually think about making stuff now

[thorn trellis]

Is this possible with trains rectangle is the refineries

The line going around all the oil is the train obv

It’s all overclocked nodes

Need 12 pipes of 300 and 5 of 150

Idk if this is doable

[plain fossil]

anything is possible with trains

[thorn trellis]

Have been told many times fluid trains are finicky

[plain fossil]

fluids in general make me question my entire understanding of this game

[thorn trellis]

Lmao fair

[thorn trellis]

Do u think what I want to do is doable tho with the machines working at 100% efficiency

[plain fossil]

thats a lot of freights

[thorn trellis]

Amount of freights don’t matter to me as long as it works

I can design around the trains but I can’t fix the math not working

[plain fossil]

mbe divide into 2 separate railways?

just an idea

[thorn trellis]

I have no issue with that Ye

It’s just will the math work

[plain fossil]

it will

i believe in it

[thorn trellis]

How would u go about doing it in a summarized way

[plain fossil]

i wouldnt i barely started using trains

im only at phase 2 so dont trust me for advice

[thorn trellis]

E

I should prob get a second opinion then

[fossil pulsar]

do you want to use trains at all costs tho?

[thorn trellis]

It’s not do or die but I’m really wanting to use trains as I have a design in mind that requires them

[fossil pulsar]

I mean, personally I think that its not so great of a distance, and I would just stick to using pipes

[fossil pulsar]

ahhh gotcha

[thorn trellis]

Yea I know that’s the smarter idea that everyone has told me

I know it myself it’s just I’d sacrifice my own time for something that looks cooler

I just need to know if it would work or not

Trying to get as many opinions as possible

The amount of trains I use don’t really matter it’s just if the math works

[fossil pulsar]

I mean I do believe that you can make it work with one train line, its just that managing where the train line should be built is terrible in that area of the map especially

Also calculating the length of it will be a pain in the arse for sure

[thorn trellis]

The design portion isn’t important to me that’s like my only strength

It’s just how would I go about the math thing as this is my first time using trains at all

[prisma kraken]

you'll have a little issue on the east side with cliffs, you'll need instead to route the rails from the canyon through one of the small paths with water, but it is quite doable

[thorn trellis]

I know the basics it’s just for something this complex im lost

[prisma kraken]

i'm not a huge fan of moving fluids in trains however, ends up being a lot of extra math to get it right

[thorn trellis]

Yea it’s fine dw future me will think of something

Basically I have 12 lines of 300 and 5 lines of 150 to fill

I’m making 4350 total

[prisma kraken]

i wish it were a bit easier cuz having the variation of cars on trains looks great

[thorn trellis]

Any ideas on how I can start this

[prisma kraken]

whenever you are dealing with trains, the first steps are to lay out where you want your stations and make a foundation path for the rails

[fossil pulsar]

If I remember correctly, there is a page on the Wiki on how to calculate train throughput

[prisma kraken]

from there it starts falling into place, but really you want to get the train stations placed first since they're pretty chonky mf's

yeah, there's entire codexes written about how to exactly calculate throughput

[thorn trellis]

I can do those after I have a shit ton of room

The distance of the rails might be what I have to get first

[prisma kraken]

i kind of follow a more nuts and bolts sort of method that makes more sense than all the piecewise equations

[cedar ivy]

Are you trying to collect ALL the oil to one oil factory? Or specifically only doing it with a single train?

[prisma kraken]

fluid train cars hold 1600 m^3

[thorn trellis]

I just want all the oil to go to that square I don’t care how other then the fact of me using trains

[prisma kraken]

that means one would take 1600/600 seconds to fill

[thorn trellis]

I was told there was limits to the output

[prisma kraken]

keep your train's round trip time under that, and you're good

[cedar ivy]

Okay, then you're going to make your life easier with breaking it up to multiple trains, delivering to multiple stations

[thorn trellis]

Yea that’s fine

[prisma kraken]

if you exceed it, then you need to add more train cars or trains

[cedar ivy]

it's a lot stricter than that when it comes to fluid cars, but yeah that's doable.

[thorn trellis]

I just need it to work

[cedar ivy]

first step: make train stations at reasonable places close to each of the sources of oil. Expect to extend them for many fluid platforms

[prisma kraken]

the problem is fluid train cars are dreadfully small, so you often exceed it and need to do the more thoughtful math

[cedar ivy]

at a glance, you could make train stations at 7 different spots to collect oil through all that.

[fringe seal]

I forgot I had copper alloy alt
logistics nightmare averted

[cedar ivy]

second step: build the rail network to move trains from those stations to your factory site

and make it 7 individual delivery stations. Your stations and fluid platforms are your bottleneck already, so leave it 1:1 and don't try to force more to go through one platform.

[thorn trellis]

I’m gonna be honest I’m kinda already lost

7 different spots

How much r each carrying

[cedar ivy]

third: figure out your actual effective throughput and build enough platforms and cars to make that much throughput happen.

Idk, that's a matter of how much you pull out of each small clump of oil nodes

[thorn trellis]

Each is 250%

[cedar ivy]

you'll have to go do math and overclock the extractors.

[thorn trellis]

So 150 300 and 600

Depending on purity

[cedar ivy]

that's a matter for you to figure out. What i'm explaining is just simplifying the train logistics so the trains can run effectively

[thorn trellis]

Ah

[cedar ivy]

it doesnt have to be exactly 7 stations, that's just what i guessed looking at the map at clumps of oil nodes. and counting the 2 pure nodes independently.

[tropic hawk]

aight, just finished a meta-analysis of what late game power source was better in terms of resource consumption, Rocket Fuel and UFR. guess which one won?

[cedar ivy]

rocket fuel

[tropic hawk]

yep. guess what the difference the max UFR number was from max RF numbers?

[cedar ivy]

a number bigger than 1gw

[thorn trellis]

I’m curious about one thing how much should each freight carry

[zenith hare]

The amount of water I use should be equal to the water I produce, correct?

[deft lichen]

Yes

[thorn trellis]

Ideally

[cedar ivy]

You won't be able to calculate that until you have a precise train Round Trip Time from the source station to the delivery station.

[thorn trellis]

Ahhh

[wind spade]

the amount of [item] you use should be equal to the amount of [item] you produce

[cedar ivy]

That's why i'm telling you to expect to expand the freight platforms at the station.

[thorn trellis]

I might have to go into creative then

[cedar ivy]

it could be 3, it could be 8, just to make sure you don't let the buffers back up and the extractors sit idle.

each car fits 1600 m^3, and the platform can take up to a lot less than the 2x 600m/s mk2 pipes can ordinarily push.

[thorn trellis]

This is honestly such a stupid idea on my part but I really wanna do it

[tropic hawk]

RF was about 80% of power production of UFRs, but both numbers was over 2 TW of net power generation

[thorn trellis]

O wdym

[cedar ivy]

because the pipes can't push while the fluid platform is loading/unloading for 27s of animation.

[thorn trellis]

That’s true

[cedar ivy]

And there is only so much buffer space in the platform.

[thorn trellis]

So I build my own buffer right

[tropic hawk]

hence why its recommended to use Buffers for train stations to allow somewhere for the fluids to flow while the train is loading

[cedar ivy]

Yes having a buffer outside the train station helps, to let the extractor keep extracting somewhere

but the fact is you can still only push up to 1200/m max into the fluid platform

[thorn trellis]

1200 minute u mean right

Someone told me

[cedar ivy]

if it's locked more often, that becomes even less. If the round trip time is longer, the platform fills up and sits idle

[thorn trellis]

That there was like a max time a train can stay at a stop

[tropic hawk]

yes, though technically its lower than that if you are able to get trains going through once/minute

[cedar ivy]

I'm explaining that righ tnow.

[thorn trellis]

Ah

[cedar ivy]

For the time the platform ISNT locked, the pipes can only catch up at a rate of 1200/m

WHILE it's locked, the pipes can't flow, and are stuck at 0/m

[thorn trellis]

Which is the purpose of the buffer ye

[tropic hawk]

its recommended for every belt/pipe of throughput you have, you have 1 station for it. while you can get higher throughputs, it starts getting sketchy when goign higher

[cedar ivy]

That's what they help with.

But there's still a variable upper limit despite buffers.

And you need to use multiple freight platforms

[tropic hawk]

i mean there is the https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/obqjrd/ficsit_pipeline_plumbing_manual_first_edition/ which explains all you need to know about fluids decently well

[cedar ivy]

to get more effective in car buffer to carry the fluid with.

I'm not talking about fluid mechanics which is its whole other lecture; i'm talking about limited train throughput

[thorn trellis]

So pretty much how much each train can take per stop?

[cedar ivy]

and the point that even if you can put 2 mk2 pipes into a platform, you have to anticipate maybe effectively 1 mk2 pipe max through a single car, if your RTT is too long.

[thorn trellis]

My brain is actually so melted rn how did u even learn this

Makes me look so stupid in comparison

[cedar ivy]

Experience and looking at the mechanics of what trains and freight platforms do

!wikisearch trains
^and this

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=trains
^and

[tropic hawk]

welcome to #math-and-meta

[thorn trellis]

I have much to learn

[tropic hawk]

and we will be here every step of the way

[cedar ivy]

It's complicated, but you don't have to master it. You just have to beware of what limits it.

[thorn trellis]

So would u suggest limiting how much each freight takes

[edgy leaf]

i actually contributed to the page on train throughput, heres the graph for fluid train throughput:

[cedar ivy]

No, i'm saying you have to leave room to work around the limit

[thorn trellis]

Btw if I say something stupid throughout this convo I want to say I’m paying attention to two things rn

[tropic hawk]

there is two ways you can worry about logistics. you can do things safely (1 belt/pipe per station) or you can start getting technical to find out how much you can really push through

[edgy leaf]

even 1belt pipe per station isnt a perfect rule in certain scenarior

you can only do 160 seconds when transporting 600 fluid per minute in a train.

everything above 160 seconds and u drop below 600 fluid transported.

[thorn trellis]

I mean I just want the easiest way to math this out and get it fully working

[cedar ivy]

The easy way is to not do precise math

[thorn trellis]

Yes

[cedar ivy]

The easy way is to add 5 more fluid platforms and cars

So that each car is delivering 600/5 oil/m

[thorn trellis]

How does one do that with lengths varying

[cedar ivy]

and just split the 600/m oil from one extractor, to a bunch of different platforms

Until they no longer back up.

[thorn trellis]

How many platforms

[cedar ivy]

Leave room to add LOTS more platforms.

[thorn trellis]

Ah

It depends on distance doesn’t it

[cedar ivy]

Yes.

[thorn trellis]

This is gonna be fun aint it

[cedar ivy]

Round-trip time, specifically.

[thorn trellis]

Including or excluding docking time

[plain fossil]

imma delete this save bc this one constructor is out of sync

[edgy leaf]

like, lets say you want to transport an item with a stack size of 50 using mk6 belts. to transport a full belt with a single train the one way travel time can not be above 12.92 seconds

thats... insane. 12.92 seconds is nothing

[cedar ivy]

which varies when you have 7 different trains on the same network, making each other stop. And yes including the docking time. But 27s out of a 4 minute round trip is barely anything.

[edgy leaf]

including docking time

[thorn trellis]

Do I really wanna do this

[edgy leaf]

its really simple actually

[brisk smelt]

1 container?

[cedar ivy]

We cannot answer that question.

[thorn trellis]

To someone smart sure unfortunately that is not me

[cedar ivy]

But the point being, you just have to make it. And leave room for expanding.

[thorn trellis]

I’m not a vet at the game so a lot of things r just confusing to me

[edgy leaf]

you need to know 3 things:

• how much do you want to transport
• what belts do you have available
• whats the stack size of the item you're trying to transport

[thorn trellis]

Fluids

[cedar ivy]

in this case it's fluids and pipes

[edgy leaf]

mk2 pipes then?

[thorn trellis]

Ye

[edgy leaf]

how much do you want to transport?

[thorn trellis]

I have 4350 available

To transport

Per min obv

I need it to go into 12 lines of 300 and 5 of 150

Which r at the station

[cedar ivy]

but the same point remains. Need to know the max amount a mk2 can flow - 600/m, and that a fluid platform limit can go below that. Down to under 200/m after 400 seconds of round trip time

[brisk smelt]

what the hell are you transporting 4350 of in fluid

[thorn trellis]

I got bored and decided to make a massive oil factory

[brisk smelt]

why not process locally lmao

[thorn trellis]

It technically is local

[edgy leaf]

awesome, i plan to transport all the oil (12600) to one location to process it

[cedar ivy]

he's making a megarefinery

[brisk smelt]

just split it into 3 factories, crater, gold coast, north

[cedar ivy]

This is the north factory.

[thorn trellis]

I just wanna use trains as a design aspect

[edgy leaf]

yea trains are nice

[cedar ivy]

and he's using trains instead of miles of pipes.

[edgy leaf]

honestly with fluids id go with 600 per car. 4350/600 is 7.25, so you're going to need 8 train cars

[brisk smelt]

shuttle, don't loop service it

you can directly pipe those 3 nodes too

[edgy leaf]

id recommend doing 7 at 600 and one at 150 just so the logistics is easier

[thorn trellis]

I know I can pipe things I want it for design tho

It would be so much easier with pipes in just trying to be special

[edgy leaf]

this is the result when i plug it into the calculator

you need a train arriving between every 54.16 and 160 seconds

[brisk smelt]

this is a closed-loop system?

yeah ig it can work

[thorn trellis]

8 train cars being freights?

Or actual trains

[edgy leaf]

lets say your train takes 400 seconds for a round trip. just add 3 trains, because 400/3 is 133.33 and thats less than 160

or if you want to be safe, do 4 trains because 100 is even less than 133.333

[edgy leaf]

8 fluid train platforms in total on either side

[thorn trellis]

So 2 4 long trains?

Or more

[edgy leaf]

yep

[thorn trellis]

Ah

[edgy leaf]

or 1 8 long train

[thorn trellis]

I’ll do two

[edgy leaf]

but theres a difference between train lines and /trains/

doulbing the amount of trains on a route halves the round trip time, it doesnt doulbe throughput

[thorn trellis]

Makes sense

[edgy leaf]

you want a train arrival cycle time of below 160, so if one train takes 200 seconds to do a round trip, you want two trains

[thorn trellis]

Two trains being the locomotives?

[cedar ivy]

this is also why i suggest making separate stations and separate trains to split that up

and putting 2 trains on the same route to the same stations leads to the second train catching up and tailing the first train, picking up from the source station before it's actually filled at all

[brisk smelt]

you can do custom loading instructions for one of the stations to slow the second down

[thorn trellis]

I think that’s more math

[cedar ivy]

you can, yes. and making it wait for a full load may help

[thorn trellis]

So would having the same area stops but having the liquid split into two different train lines work

[cedar ivy]

yes, that's what I'm suggesting

[carmine iron]

Hi, folks, i’ve been doing the math for a max nuclear and 35 alien matrix per minute. What a complex game 😂

[thorn trellis]

Round trip meaning how long it takes to go to each station once?

[cedar ivy]

meaning how long it takes to leave one station, do it's route to the other station, and return and be ready to leave again. Round-trip, not one-way trip.

you can time it with a stopwatch by the "I'm ready to go" honk after a loading cycle

[thorn trellis]

So it includes the docking time of first station unloading leaving to go to next docking and unloading/loading and coming back

[cedar ivy]

yes

[thorn trellis]

When it comes back does it include the docking or unloading

[cedar ivy]

it includes EVERYTHING

[thorn trellis]

Does it include the docking and unloading of first station twice for a loop tho

[cedar ivy]

no, just once

[thorn trellis]

Or jus true first time

Ok so when it stops back at the first station that’s when the loop timer ends

[cedar ivy]

as in, start a train on the cycle

[thorn trellis]

Ye

[cedar ivy]

let it do its dock thing at the first station, Start your stopwatch when you hear its leaving "HONK!"

[tropic hawk]

do you do the math by hand or do you use a production calculator?

[cedar ivy]

wait there until it returns, loads, and press stop when you hear the "HONK!" again.

[thorn trellis]

Oh so the timer starts when it leaves not when it docks

[cedar ivy]

it's a full cycle, you can include the first loading step and exclude the second, or it's easier to count the second one because there's a convenient HONK to time it with.

[thorn trellis]

I assume the time is calculated in a menu in game tho right

[edgy leaf]

we don't even know what true max nuclear power is afaik

[tropic hawk]

yes we do

[edgy leaf]

what is it?

[tropic hawk]

we going straight raw nuclear power production in total, or do we have any other parameters?

[unreal venture]

could someone tell me why this priority fuild system isnt working properly?

[tropic hawk]

well, its not hooked up to fluids pipes initially. do you have a screenshot of it actually in a system?

[edgy leaf]

with just "raw" nuclear power I think the best one is just putting everything into making more uranium rods with SAM

the real difficult stuff is total power, including APAs and APMs and other slooping

[thorn trellis]

Btw where’s the calculator

For trains

[cedar ivy]

no, there's a throughput measure on the freight platform, but it only shows an average for the last 5 minutes.

[unreal venture]

hope its clear

[cedar ivy]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Train_throughput

or look at 0laura's graph for fluid cars.

[thorn trellis]

Lemme go check that one rq

[tropic hawk]

1,984,030 MW from PFRs; 2,645,375 MW from UFRs, that would be around 4,629,405 MW or 4.629 TW

not including any APAs of course

[edgy leaf]

that's with waste tho, right?

[tropic hawk]

yep. Wasteless is much lower

[edgy leaf]

I forgot to mention, I meant wasteless

[tropic hawk]

211.63 UFR/minute, consuming 367748.972 MW of power at peak, producing 2,645,375 MW of power for a net of 2,277,626.028 MW (2.277 TW) Resource Consumption:

again, no APAs

[unreal venture]

those are some crazy needed resources

[tropic hawk]

going back to you, what is the problem here?

[tropic hawk]

its Max Nuclear, kinda goes with the territory

[unreal venture]

the bottem one is backing up

[edgy leaf]

yep that's what I meant

[unreal venture]

when it should take priority

[thorn trellis]

U able to send a link to this graph

[edgy leaf]

I plan to make 2.54 TW, wasteless without any converting

[thorn trellis]

I wanna c how to use it

[edgy leaf]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/djzytmsw4h

[thorn trellis]

Ty

[edgy leaf]

the horizonal axis is round trip time in seconds. vertical axis is throughput in items per minute

S is stack size and C is belt speed

[thorn trellis]

In terms of the variables

[tropic hawk]

alright, and where does the top one go?

[mild remnant]

@edgy leaf you going for that?

[thorn trellis]

I assume stack size doesn’t matter for fluids

[edgy leaf]

stack size for all fluids is "50"

[thorn trellis]

Ah

Belt speed being pipe is 600

[edgy leaf]

nah, that's overkill

[tropic hawk]

reason I provided that was because they said that no one did math for max nuclear yet, despite that is what I did once the recipes were officially released

[tropic hawk]

true, Rocket Fuel plants gets you far enough if you are doing practical gameplay

[unreal venture]

it goes from right to left into a particle accelerator

[thorn trellis]

What r the other numbers in the graph

[tropic hawk]

so you have this VIP junction, does everything downstream of it run at 100% efficacy?

[thorn trellis]

Sorry variables not numbers

[edgy leaf]

I didn't know sloop less was a solved thing, but I'm pretty sure with sloops hasn't been solved yet

[thorn trellis]

Like what is R

[tropic hawk]

for max power? yes it has

[edgy leaf]

reload time. its always 27.08

[thorn trellis]

Right

Any other numbers I have to put in

[edgy leaf]

oh, didn't know that. I talked to people hereabout it and noone knew. what is it?

[mild remnant]

What calc is that i mean thats obv a Website?

[tropic hawk]

for max power, you want to be building the Power Augmenters, and build the current map maximum of 10 APAs last I checked

[tropic hawk]

greeny's SFTools, let me grab a link

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[mild remnant]

thx

[edgy leaf]

I plan to do 50.4 UFR, 12.6 PFR and 50 APM and 10 APAs for 2.54TW

[tropic hawk]

ah, the old UFR max. ah, the good ol' days...

[edgy leaf]

yea but how much Sam do you allocate to making uranium abd how much to APAs?

[tropic hawk]

anyone have the equasion for the APA power generation handy, my graph that had it deleted itself again

[edgy leaf]

yea, keeping it simple and just adding some of the new stuff on top

[tropic hawk]

the building doesn't take any to run, and if you want to buff it by supplying it, that cuts a significant chunk of power production down, to make it not worth it

[thorn trellis]

I’m assuming the other input number is trip time right

[edgy leaf]

are you sure it's not worth it at all? making 50APMs doubles your power

just APAs is 2x, with APMs it's 4x

[tropic hawk]

do you have any idea how expensive that is?

[edgy leaf]

yes

[unreal venture]

i have one quatum encoder for superposition oscillators making 125 dark matter residue and one for neural quatum processors making 75 and a converter making 125, this all goes into a particle accelerator for dark matter crystals, this one needs 325 per min

but i gtg ill be back in about 20 min

[edgy leaf]

this is my final plan.

[tropic hawk]

holy factory....

[edgy leaf]

yea, I think I'll make it about 5% if the way there before I get burned out

I'm currently doing all the oil stuff

it takes "only" 6000 Sam to double my power

[mild remnant]

Wth

[tropic hawk]

just reran the numbers for APMs paired with a max nuclear wasteless plant, and there isnt enough resources to even make 1 APM/minute

[edgy leaf]

yea because your max nuclear wasteless uses all the sam

see if reallocating some of the Sam to APMs has a net positive on power production

[mild remnant]

it will

[edgy leaf]

yea that's kinda what I was alluding to, idk what the right ratio for SAM application is

but maybe I'm wrong and it's already solved, I just haven't heard the solution yet

[flint rapids]

Is there a point or profit to Recycled Rubber and Plastic other than making closed loops that do not rely on sinks?

[deft lichen]

it makes 4.5x as much plastic/rubber with no byproduct

[thorn trellis]

One last question when I place down the lines what do I set the timing at for each station

[edgy leaf]

I'm not sure what you mean, recycled rubber and recycled plastic can be made as a closed loop that doesn't rely on a sink

[edgy leaf]

just setting it to wait for a full load/unload should be enough I think

I manually tune my Timings but that's probably Overkill

[tropic hawk]

just reran the numbers so that each of the 10 APAs will have an input of APMs, and that was a total of 50 APMs, 159.32 UFRs, and 39.83 PFRs

running numbers for the power boost now

[edgy leaf]

it's just +5 gw and x4

[tropic hawk]

you would think, wouldn't you....

or did they change the APA formula since launch?

[edgy leaf]

I don't think so

default APA boost is 10%, when fueled it's 30%

10 fueled APAs are plus 300%, aka x4

[flint rapids]

How do you reach x4? By adding Diluted to the process I only get x2

[deft lichen]

HOR alt

[edgy leaf]

oil, to HOR to diluted to recycled can turn 1 oil into 3 plastic

or 1 oil into 3 rubber

[deft lichen]

HOR alt, diluted fuel, residual rubber, recycled rubber, recycled plastic

residual rubber is not an alt, it's a base recipe unlocked alongside the normal rubber recipe

[flint rapids]

Nuts, thank you

[edgy leaf]

yep, always use residual rubber and not residual plastic if you want to maximize rubber/plastic per oil because it's more oil efficient

[thorn trellis]

But that wouldn’t make any sense when there’s multiple stops before the unload stop no?

[tropic hawk]

then by my math you would get around 3,989,666.667 MW or around 3.989 TW of power from max nuclear + max APA

[edgy leaf]

if there's one unload then just do it at that one unload spot

[tropic hawk]

compared to the old figure of 2,987,250, its a sizable increase

[edgy leaf]

but it also uses sloops

I wonder what'd happen if you used the sloops for not APAs

like, to sloop UFR production, or SAM production

I'm too tired and too lazy to do that rn, I've already decided what I'll do

tho I'd love to hear the results if you do it

[thorn trellis]

There’s only one unload 4 load

Each load has a different amount being made

[tropic hawk]

its 4 sloops/manufacturer, right?

[edgy leaf]

then set the one unload the wait until one full load/unload

[edgy leaf]

yep

I think it takes 30 sloops to double all sam

[thorn trellis]

Wdym

[edgy leaf]

not sure, it's 1 sloop per constructor

[edgy leaf]

slooping the constructors that make reanimated sam

[mild remnant]

You would need 34 sloops to double all Sam on full 250

[edgy leaf]

ah yea, I forgor the exact number

[thorn trellis]

Meant for the trains

I’m confused by the load unload thing

[edgy leaf]

oopsi, I didn't see who was replying and to which message

[prisma kraken]

34

[edgy leaf]

send a screenshot of the train station interface of the unloading station

the one where you can also select wait time

[thorn trellis]

I’m not on atm ima look to find on wiki

[edgy leaf]

that looks like excited photonic matter, it has no headlift I think? maybe that's why it doesn't work.

tho I've never worked with headliftless fluids so I don't know

[unreal venture]

its all dark matter residue

[prisma kraken]

btw, if you want to make uranium in the converter, it seems like going caterium->bauxite->uranium as a 2 step process where you sloop the steps is a win... looks like you can make 1200 uranium from 1500 caterium if i mathed it right

[edgy leaf]

that also has no headlift

[unreal venture]

which one?

[edgy leaf]

dark matter residue

has no headlift, it's a gas

[mild remnant]

106 Sloops on Map the constructors need like 34 thats 72 spare we could use on converters for the recources every one of those need 2 thats 36 Converter with double output but idk and i dont want to do the math for where to put the sloops in the 36 converters

[unreal venture]

ahh

so how can i make it work?

[prisma kraken]

you need to burn 1-2 on research

[ashen girder]

3 for research.

[prisma kraken]

is it 3?

[ashen girder]

Depends on how you feel about achievements and APAs, I guess.

[edgy leaf]

tugboat, show them your funky VIP junction, maybe it works on gases

I'm not at my computer rn so I can't

[mild remnant]

thanks forgot about those

[ashen girder]

I quit pipes. 🤣

Until tomorrow, at least.

[edgy leaf]

relatable

[unreal venture]

breh

[edgy leaf]

yea sorry I'm about to sleep can't help much

[ashen girder]

I found a game in EA that's like Satisfactory crossed with Planet Crafters. 👀

[edgy leaf]

if you haven't resolved it by tomorrow I'll figure it out

[unreal venture]

no worries, already helped me so ty

[forest solstice]

whats the most efficient way to transport large ammounts of water for a nuke plant? just a lot of mk2 pipes?

[brisk smelt]

@edgy leaf you happen to have the demos spreadsheet for drones too?

[edgy leaf]

nope, never did drones stuff

[fringe seal]

wet concrete vs fine concrete?
context is that it is in the limestone crater in the grassfields, and a quartz factory already has a train line

[tropic hawk]

34 sloops to double SAM means 72 to use for doubling PFRs

[prisma kraken]

tl;dr: build pipe between machine output and other machine input. watch stuff flow. Complain for hours after you do so that stuff isn't working correctly because you built it badly

[unreal venture]

ah now i get it

[tropic hawk]

that would mean a yeild of 246 UFRs and 92.27 PFRs

now using the 72 to double the PFR output...

[unreal venture]

whats UFR and PFR?

[ashen girder]

Uranium and Plutonium.

[prisma kraken]

be careful with math on that, very easy to smack into the nitrogen and bauxite limits

[unborn dome]

I'm having a weird manifold problem. I'm definitely making enough steel bars, like the exact whole number needed, but constructor at the very end of a 16-machine manifold seems to be running short.

[unreal venture]

oh urannium fuel rod and plutonium

[ashen girder]

And FFR is Ficsonium.

[unborn dome]

And its neighbor is decreasing down below the full 100-stack even though I loaded it with that many. Belts are not overloaded.

[unreal venture]

is ficsonium worth it?

[tropic hawk]

this is max nuclear, we don't care about hitting limits

well, we do care about it, its to be expected

[edgy leaf]

you can hit the limits with just nuclear

[brisk smelt]

fisconium is not very useful

[prisma kraken]

ficsonium really sort of just breaks even on power itself, but allows you to recycle plut waste

[brisk smelt]

with uranium power alone you can get like 600GW

more than enough for most playthroughs

[tropic hawk]

114.77 PFRs and 246 UFRs/minute total

[edgy leaf]

yea but we're talking about maximizing rn

[tropic hawk]

with oil power you can hit TW pretty easily

[ashen girder]

Easily, and tediously.

[brisk smelt]

yeah but where is the plastic gonna come from

[unreal venture]

with only oil?

[prisma kraken]

i've been playing a lot with the numbers on it all, trying to figure out a viable max ficsonium build (ain't easy), and it looks like max power you'll get is somewhere in the 2 tw range

[brisk smelt]

you can do silly stuff in a isolated playthrough

but won't really work in a real playthrough

[brisk smelt]

incl boosters? or no

[tropic hawk]

2,869,250 MW from PFR, 3,075,000 MW from UFR

[prisma kraken]

you have to sloop some stuff, yeah

the number of trigons you need is pretty big

[tropic hawk]

or around 5,944,250

5.944 TW for max nuke while slooping SAM and PFRs

[prisma kraken]

also, the ficsonium chain is dark matter residue negative, so you need to figure out how to supply about half of what it needs

[tropic hawk]

compared with the APA figure of 3.989 TW of power from max nuclear + max APA

[unreal venture]

whats the max nuke without sloops?

[edgy leaf]

that one is with waste tho, right?

[ashen girder]

Now use that SAM to make UFRs instead of FFRs, and feed some APAs.

[tropic hawk]

the analysis done on FFRs is that for what it provides, which is best case around 500 gw of power, its not great for all the added resource consumption and complexity

[tropic hawk]

true, wasteless will be much different as that would be slooping UFR production and having to modify PFR to take the increased load of waste

[prisma kraken]

I think i've figured out how to get above 2tw with it all, but i'm still working through stuff

[tropic hawk]

pretty dang high, max nuke wasteless was around 3TW, I don't feel like searching for the exact figure atm

[tropic hawk]

are you producing power for power's sake, or do you want a practical late game power plant?

[unreal venture]

no worries, and with waste?

[prisma kraken]

in u8 without converters, max yield with burning plut rods was around 1.1 tw

[tropic hawk]

around 4.5 TW IIRC

[tropic hawk]

ah, the good ol' days when UFRs couldn't break triple digits

[prisma kraken]

you can get around 600 mw with URF's alone

[tropic hawk]

3.2 TW actually

[unreal venture]

so u can get over 12 tw if u get 10 alien power augmenters fully overclocked

[prisma kraken]

dude, i was talking Update 8

[tropic hawk]

No. the APM production is greedy, ends up cutting down on the power done

[tropic hawk]

see this

[prisma kraken]

'yes, but i can convert all my bauxite into uranium and not be able to build reactors'

[unreal venture]

so a little under 12 tw

[tropic hawk]

where are you pulling numbers from?

[ashen girder]

If you can get 2 TW from Nuclear, then you can get 4 TW from APAs by themselves. 🙃

[unreal venture]

from 3,989,666,667 * 3 = 12 tw

[ashen girder]

Why are you multiplying it by 3?

[unreal venture]

alien power augmenters

with alien power matrix

[ashen girder]

Don't multiply power by 3 in any scenario.

[edgy leaf]

that's x4

and also the 4tw already includes APAs and APMs

[unreal venture]

oh that was already done

[prisma kraken]

dude, you got 103 sloops to work with, where you use em is up to you, but you can'tuse em for everything

[ashen girder]

I beat the game with 60 GW. I didn't think y'all were talking practicality here.

[mild remnant]

Is this now a contest or just a problem sovling discussion?

[tropic hawk]

That number is already including it

[prisma kraken]

i beat it with 52 gw before apa's 😛

[unreal venture]

have u touched nuclear

[tropic hawk]

106*

[mild remnant]

Research

[ashen girder]

Nope. Didn't see a reason to.

[unreal venture]

cuz nuclear waste

[tropic hawk]

Shoot, forgot about that. My numbers may be a little large then

[ashen girder]

No, because if I needed to quadruple my power, I could just plop down the rest of my RF plant.

[tropic hawk]

Yep. RF is on par with nuclear for power production and is cheaper on resources too

[edgy leaf]

not viable for me because I have 0 oil lefr in my plan :/

every single last drop of oil has a purpose in my Masterplan

80% joking here rn

idk, nuclear always seemed more appealing because it uses uranium, which is basically free

[thorn trellis]

I couldn’t find anything Lmao

[edgy leaf]

it can only be turned into uranium fuel rods so turning it into uranium fuel rods is free, at least in my mind

[tropic hawk]

<looks at you in sulfur>

[ashen girder]

Y'all got a weird definition of "free".

[edgy leaf]

why?

[tropic hawk]

TNSTAFL

[ashen girder]

Because generally when I consider the price of things, I include the effort and opportunity costs.

[edgy leaf]

my effort and time is free

[tropic hawk]

It's not free. Might be not worth considering, but certainly not free

[edgy leaf]

what would the equivalent in rocket fuel cost?

630gw

this setup also gives infinite free drone fuel basically but I won't take that into account

[thorn trellis]

Btw what do u need from the UI the options?

[ashen girder]

Now we're throwing "infinite" around too? 🤣

[edgy leaf]

yes

[tropic hawk]

All we need for rage bait now is "best"

[edgy leaf]

you need to go to the section where you can set the wait time and set it to wait until one full load/unload has been competed

[edgy leaf]

I mean, it's more than you'd reasonably need I think

[ashen girder]

You get that from a big ole rocket fuel plant too, though.

[thorn trellis]

One full load being the capacity of the freight?

[edgy leaf]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Electric_Locomotive#Stop_settings

scroll down to stop settings

you want fully loaded/unloaded

oh it's actually in the timetable, not train station I think

[thorn trellis]

Was saying earlier wouldn’t this affect the fact that I have multiple stations before the one unload and each station has more or less product then another

[edgy leaf]

I think it shouldn't make a difference

[thorn trellis]

If I set it to load until freight is full tho wouldn’t it fill all the way to its capacity and then skip the other stations?

[edgy leaf]

just set it to that at the one unload station

all others leave at default

[nova steppe]

I accidentaly have 35 High-Speed Connectors / min left over (please don't ask how)
I already planned out all my factories, any idea where I should use this (except sinking)

[thorn trellis]

What’s the default

[edgy leaf]

"one load unload has been completed" or wait 15 seconds

[thorn trellis]

What is considered as one load

[edgy leaf]

uhhhhhh, hard to explain

I have to go sleep, maybe someone else can explain it. in sure the wiki has it too

[thorn trellis]

This all just sounds like a lot of effort imo

As much as I want to do it idk if spending 10+ hours is worth it

Now that I think about it can’t I have 4 train lines one at each point

Ah actually nvm even more work

[mild remnant]

Automated wiring alt, Homing rifle ammo or supercomputer alt

[cedar ivy]

Where's the image showing headlift heights from machines?

[weak rose]

:( i want both

[mild remnant]

I dont like both lol

[wind spade]

@ivory hemlock see #math-and-meta message

[forest solstice]

i dont wana make this 15 pipe group like 500 blocks long, uuugh

[mild remnant]

use blueprints

[forest solstice]

or i wish i could infinite zoop them and then have them put the supports down

[brisk smelt]

you can copypaste in scim

but thats not much better than just blueprinting

[spiral wigeon]

Or a train

Maybe 2

[quaint abyss]

optimal splitter setup

[cedar ivy]

On as scale from 1 to wtf are you doing, how would you rate this for nuclear water supply

[quaint abyss]

:60:

[carmine iron]

By hand

Because some alternate receipe were not on some calculator

[tropic hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/respect-davis-boreanaz-salute-uniform-gif-11216021

[wind spade]

the word "optimal" has no business being anywhere nearby that image

[wind spade]

the two in #welcome both have all alt recipes

which one you used?

[carmine iron]

Cloudy Diamond weren’t on satisfactory calculator and some receipe like ficsonium don’t work on satis tool

[wind spade]

ficsonium works on Tools, you just have to input plutonium waste

[carmine iron]

I just calculated how many resources that I need to compare if I have enough of each resources and if it’s really possible

[leaden cosmos]

And by default the alts are not selected

[carmine iron]

It’s more fun to do it by hand

When I finish planning, I will post there my calculation

[wind spade]

sure, just trying to help you troubleshoot Tools in case you want to use it in future

[carmine iron]

Yes, thank you

To do nuclear set up, with ficsonium it will cost a lot of Sam

[tropic hawk]

you max out SAM typically with large scale nuclear

[grand jasper]

how does this work?

[ashen girder]

What do you mean?

[carmine iron]

Yes but I Will use a couple of somersloop because i don’t have enough

[grand jasper]

to cycle the products and not have them run out or clog

[wind spade]

priority splitters

[ashen girder]

It produces more than it consumes, also.

[magic island]

put some plastic/rubber into the refineries to jumpstart it, then use smart-splitters to prioritize sending the product back in to keep the cycle going. take the overflow as your final output

[ashen girder]

Don't even need to do that as long as you did the math right on the whole factory.

[grand jasper]

This looks like the easiest one. And to keep it from clogging I can sink the overflow of again so it can keep producing?

[tropic hawk]

indeed

[ashen girder]

What y'all call clog I say "done producing" 🤣

[cedar ivy]

it's only a clog if it's insufficient throughput to a destination. Otherwise it's just sparkling overproduction ✨

[leaden cosmos]

I think the smart splitter method is a tradeoff if there is a problem, you get to max production sooner, but dont get an output sooner
I prefer the dedicated output for the loops

[magic island]

the recycled recipes don't have byproducts, so the only thing that'll happen if they back up is that the fuel being produced for this loop will back up too

and that's fine unless you have another factory that is vitally dependent on getting the polymer resin from your fuel production

[spiral wigeon]

What’s the most optimal build and forget sink resource

[ashen girder]

What phase?

[wind spade]

that really depends on your definition of "optimal" 🙂

anything that you can make is a good thing to sink (at least overflow from it)

[ashen girder]

And for a useful answer: AI Limiters and Fabric are both strong contenders for simple sinks.

[unborn ermine]

another early game one, quartz products, arent really used early game but they can be unlocked really early in the MAM

[ashen girder]

That's the one I was forgetting, yeah.

[unborn ermine]

I did that in one of my old saves, got gung-ho about using quartz and shipped over products in the desert... sunk it all for a LONG time

[heavy gust]

any guesses why this setup with 30 fuel gens is using 100 mw power?
i have checked all the wires, its nothing put power poles and the actual generators

[unborn ermine]

hoverpack?

[heavy gust]

lol

yes thats it, my dumbass forgot that thing uses power

[unborn ermine]

[heavy gust]

lets hope the full 600 pipe is actually gonna work this time.
i think i followed all the good practises this time.

feeding from above, and loopback

maybe i have broken the curse and actually managed a working 600 pipe

[forest solstice]

is there a way with no mods to display stats on a screen? like throughput or total ammount of items in a storage

[wind spade]

storage is easy - use dimensional depots

[unborn ermine]

Honestly the best you can do is depot plus dismantle info per container.

the rest would be mod territory.

[velvet venture]

all this only to store 4.8MW, cost too much wires lol

[velvet venture]

if it works it works

[grand jasper]

wait. did they change this?

[spiral wigeon]

9

Sorry 5

I have all milestones

[wind spade]

no

[grand jasper]

oh well

[grand thicket]

space efficient but at what cost…

[brisk smelt]

alright you've done something wrong here

well, it works but

why not just dunk the reactors in the ocean

[supple harbor]

This math ain't mathing... I got 480m3 of oil (120, 120 + 240) going into 6 refiners each using 60m3 (360m3 total) producing 240m3 of fuel supplying 6 fuel generators at 20m3 each and 3 oc at 40m3 for a total of 240m3.

But my generators keep switching off due to not enough fuel, because the refineries are running below 100%.

[cedar ivy]

because i didnt build my powerplant in the ocean ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[grand thicket]

is your oil going uphill?

[supple harbor]

There's a small up to get to the refining platform, but don't think it's too high.

Shall I just give it a pump anyway?

[grand thicket]

cant hurt
Also are you sinking the polymer resin?

[supple harbor]

Directly to an awesome sink

[brisk smelt]

which refineries are clogged/starved

[supple harbor]

will be doing something more useful wih it soon, but busy rebuilding after starting a new base.

[grand thicket]

double check also that all your oil pipes are MK. 2

[supple harbor]

iirc, (currently going to my storage) it's the ones furthest from the initial pipeline.

[brisk smelt]

did you saturate the system beforehand

[supple harbor]

yep

[brisk smelt]

the pipe is looped?

[supple harbor]

nope

[brisk smelt]

loop it

[supple harbor]

what kind of loop are we talking about? a rollercoaster loop, or looping the system back to itself?

[supple harbor]

Well, the pump worked. Apparently it was a lot more head lift than I thought.

and even with the pump part way up the pipe it still says it's lifting 13.Xm

[hushed prawn]

I'm looking at setting up a dedicated location for my fuel drones, and I'm trying to decide if I should just do a turbofuel setup or move to batteries. Batteries seem more efficient but, if I'm creating a dedicated setup just for this, does it matter?

[wet python]

I didn't even consider the hassle of batteries, went straight to turbofuel. I hope 780/m is enough for all my drone needs up to endgame.

if not, an upgrade to rocket fuel is easily done, but again I will need aluminum to bottle it, so I hope it is enough

[wet python]

is it really bad feeding a big manifold from its middle instead of one of the tips? I got the impression that this makes it really hard to fill the pipes, even when producing more than consuming.

[cedar ivy]

well if you're feeding a big full manifold, you probably already want to feed it from both ends with a loop so.. starting from the middle is a little easier on the distance part but worse on the flow part

[river night]

if you loop it anyway, does it have a middle or ends? 🙂

[wet python]

and another thought: is it better a looped mk1 manifold fed by a mk2 full pipe?

oh, and all this is with rocket fuel (a gas)

[distant aurora]

how would i calculate the cargo throughput of factory carts?

[cedar ivy]

debatably, you don't. you set up a dozen and pray. round trip time+ station loading time, but moving a single stack.

[south hornet]

Having searched, I can see that questions about specific balancers have been explained and the pro's and con's etc.

A friend created a 1:5 balancer and I can't see anything wrong with it, however, I'm aware satisfactory wiki gg has a diagram to avoid any bottlenecking which I've seen a few big satisfactory youtubers use (which includes the use of conveyor lifts).

Therefore, is this balancer ok, or is there a flaw we are both missing?

[distant aurora]

huh. for some reason they stop recording a path as soon as i start moving

[distant aurora]

this looks good yeah, no belts should overload

[wind spade]

it's fine, but the question is whether or not you really need a balancer. A manifold will usually do the job just as well, and is much simpler

[south hornet]

@wind spade Yep, thanks, in the specific case, it probably is better than a manifold, but I do take on board what you're saying

[south hornet]

Thanks 👍

[swift robin]

balancer would be nice to keep radioactivity down at a nuclear plant, but not that many uses afaik

[distant aurora]

balancers are better for nuclear anyway cause fuel rods are produced extremely slowly

[wind spade]

eh, I'd argue that you'll have radiation anyway and when troubleshooting you want hazmat suit on at all time
and yes, they produce slowly, but you almost never need ALL the power from a nuclear plant directly after you've finished building it and it wouldn't matter much for it to build up slowly

[distant aurora]

yeah but with how slow it is the manifold takes absolute ages to get up to speed

[wind spade]

it also takes ages for you to use all the power 😛

[distant aurora]

better to just spend an extra minute building a balancer and some extra belts

[cloud tree]

ive got 1200 aluminum ingot, whats the best ratio to split those in for sheets and casings?

[distant aurora]

if youre building your first aluminum plant for building supplies, focus on sheets

if youre building a big plant to supply other factories, id probably leave it as ingots and process on site wherever theyre needed

thats what im doing with mine

[cloud tree]

i need heatsink into cooling system from sheets only right?

[cloud tree]

smart tip

i just dont wanna take all because i overproduce something somewhere hahaha

[velvet venture]

napkin math checks out, pretty compact too. Your friend is pretty smart.

for an example input of 100, the value gets closer and closer to 20 per machine (19.9998)

[cloud tree]

pure recipe, 40.5 smelter

[distant aurora]

the factory cart line seems to keep up with demand. is it less free, less space efficient, worse for performance, and less reliable in every way for a supply line for the batteries that will power all my drones? absolutely. is it also really fun to look at? hell yeah

[cloud tree]

thats what makes it fun!

[distant aurora]

also this is what 12300 aluminum per minute looks like

and i still have like 5 hours of work ahead of me for the logistics of moving all those fucking ingots, god help me

i also need to keep everything moving at all times because if the ingots get to back up, so does petcoke and HOR and ultimately the plastic im using for batteries. fun!

[grim walrus]

if im makin 2250 rocket fuel a minute how many power gens can i have i tryed to do the math and it kept telling me 500 is that correct

[distant aurora]

540

the hardest part of rocket fuel is setting up all the fucking generators

please use blueprints

[grim walrus]

i dont have a blueprint for it 😦

[remote ice]

So, it turns out that it isn't rendered on the skybox. TBH i'm not even sure if UE has a traditional flat-texture-at-infinite-distance skybox. #story-spoilers message

[vapid gorge]

so make them?

[grim walrus]

how would i make a easy blueprint for geneators

[vapid gorge]

.... like any blue print. you put down a generator and whatever else you want around it

but the hardest part about rocket fuel generators is that you're using rocket fuel for power and have to put down a million generators instead of just going nuclear. Also people try to build towers and get mad when it doesn't run at 100%

[brisk smelt]

that's... very funny

[remote ice]

yeah, seems like, since UE just supports putting big stuff really really far away with zero fuss (unlike older game engines), most of the scenery outside the level is just a really big object hundreds of kilometers away

even the other planets/moons, i think?

[distant aurora]

my guess is theyre rendered on a different "layer" and get combined in via shaders or something

i really doubt the planets are actually that big and that far. game engines dont like that

[grim walrus]

yea imma have to math each blender to rows of generators xd

[distant aurora]

this is what my fuel gen blueprint looks like

theyre facing in different directions cause a pipe wouldnt fit. they also have a power pole connecting them

and a matching manifold blueprint to put between those

[grim walrus]

hmm ok

[spare jolt]

when capacity is almost 4x higher than max consumption 🚬

it'll last me for a while

[vapid gorge]

@stark spire these all run off that loop, some at 600 and the rest probably above 570

having mk1 inputs did seem to help stabalise the copper systems in the first ones but it's possible I was just in a rush and just needed time

[stark spire]

Those pure recipes gave my system fits in previous updates. This one seems to be more forginving, and I may actually try some again. Thinking pure copper may be a good relief for baux, going on to alclads

looked at some of the numbers on that, not a pretty sight

[vapid gorge]

with all the extra copper now? copper alloy all the way xD

[stark spire]

Oh, I did alloy religiously

uses more iron now

[vapid gorge]

I only did pure here because I didn't want to import it. But pure nodes now!

[stark spire]

it was 5 + 10 for 20, now 5 + 5 for 10

[remote ice]

No, as far as i can tell, the planets are actual models placed thousands of kilometers out of the play area. Look at this series of screenshots where i shot myself very far out of bounds, you can see the planets parallaxing much faster than they should normally move, and we can see them from odd angles. Notice the debug coordinates.

[white bloom]

Just FYI, this is literally the exact same as that bottleneck-avoiding 1:5 that's in the wiki. It's just drawn differently, but the topology (what is connected to what) is identical.

[remote ice]

interestingly, the exoplanets other planets also have project assemblies on them:

[distant aurora]

whuh

theres no way anyone would see that why would they put that there'

[remote ice]

not a clue

would be astonished if those things even render in normal gameplay

i'll see if i can get a closer look at a planet

[cedar ivy]

Whoa

[remote ice]

it'll take me a little bit though, since i have to place several hundred more nuke nobelisks to get this much speed

[rugged kite]

out of context but why do you have 1.3k NUKES

[distant aurora]

by automating them i assume

[rugged kite]

ik but WHY

bro wants to desroy the world or smh

[white bloom]

also, this topology is minimal for 1:5 without bottlenecks, at 6 inner nodes (splitters/mergers). All 1:5 with fewer inner nodes have bottleneck limitations.

[prisma kraken]

you kind of realize by game's end that ADA is a self-replicating overlord, lol

[spice marsh]

Imagine if in future updates we can build on other planets and there also ways to deliver resources from one planet to another to automate bigger things

[white bloom]

@south hornet for the record, the minimal 1:5 balancers
no reason to ever build the first, same number of nodes as the second (4) but the internal bottleneck is even worse (5/9 of belt capacity). Second one is 5/6 of belt capacity. Third one is the smallest with throughput 1/1 of belt capacity. It is topologically equivalent to the diagram you posted, and on the wiki. No smaller ones exist, I can say confidently after exhaustively generating and checking (automatically) every single one of them.

[ruby current]

In biomass burners if you burn say 8MW out of 30MW, it burns less fuel than if you used the whole 30MW correct?

[distant aurora]

biomass burners slow down to meet demand yes

[velvet venture]

ALL of this for only 166.666/min rocket fuel gennys dont feel like they are worth it

[distant aurora]

all of the energy in each bit of fuel is guaranteed to be used to power something

[ruby current]

Thoughts so. Thanks.

[velvet venture]

two Nuke reactor produces the same (5.2+MW from 16 rocket fuel gens)

[swift robin]

yeah but u dont have to feed the gens a shitload of water like nuclear

[velvet venture]

I made my first Nuke plant which makes 4 rods/min on-site with only 8 reactors

It can fuel 20 reactors in total. I plan to drone the extra rods and make the 16 reactors on the ocean. Should last quite a white.

[remote ice]

you could also fuel the drones with the rods

[quaint condor]

So, attempting to build a 42x reactor setup and the satisfactory -calc site states that I would need only 8.4/min uranium fuel rods ... is this correct?

[velvet venture]

yes, why wouldnt it be

reactors eat 0.2 rods per min

[quaint condor]

Ahh, ok, i see now. consumption rate is only .2/min

[quaint condor]

Yeah, sorry, missed that initially. Thank you.

[velvet venture]

what do you plan on doing with the waste?

420 waste per min, almost a stack a min

[quaint condor]

Most likely plutonium and sink it (?)

With some going for drone fuel? Not 100% sure yet.

[fringe pawn]

Just burn the plutonium unless you really want the points.

[quaint condor]

See, that's what I was thinking, but there is no real way to run it completely off plutonium rods correct? As you would need to use uranium rods to create the waste to make the plutonium ...

[fringe pawn]

What I mean is don't sink the rods you can get.

[quaint condor]

And no, not super concerned about the points.

[heady shale]

whats the best ratio of heavy oil residue refineries to diluted fuel blenders? (assuming 100% clock speed for both)

[quaint condor]

I already have all the items except for the trophies. But sitting on 400+ coupons atm anyhow

[vapid gorge]

however many blenders you need for the HOR you're making

HOR pm produced / HOR consumed in recipe = number of blenders

[quaint condor]

It's a matter how how much you want to create. Otherwise, 10 refineries, is a good start I'd say.

[heady shale]

well im about to use 3450 crude

w/115 refineries

[vapid gorge]

here https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[quaint condor]

Just for diluted fuel? Not TF or rocket fuel?

[heady shale]

thats a future me problem

[vapid gorge]

not planning multiple steps ahead with fluids IS a problem, good you recognise that

[velvet venture]

btw, do keep in mind that it requires 1200+ limestone which would even cap a mk6 belt so u gotta do dual belts while bringing the resources

[quaint condor]

Right, I am aware. I have gotten rather keen on balancing loads in pipes and belts so I am not concerned with that.

[vapid gorge]

you effectively can't balance pipes unless you go to fairly ridiculous lengths.

[velvet venture]

I personally feel like the level of tediousness for plutonium rods is not worth it for me so I just drone out the UR waste deep in the ocean xd

[quaint condor]

Eh, I disagree. 400x gens burning RF and have 0 issues (After I let everything fill for a few days of course. #screenshots message

[velvet venture]

did you try the calculator tools?

[quaint condor]

Although, yes, it's gas, and no head lift issues....

[velvet venture]

Imo they need to add mk3 pipes and mk2 fuild extractors

[thorn trellis]

Heavy oil residue as in the alternate?

[vapid gorge]

... you can set up wild splits like belts and have them work, that doesn't mean the pipes are load balanced

[quaint condor]

But I again, I have been doing rather will at managing headlift and other 'blancing' tricks for pipes.

[vapid gorge]

there's no disagreement to be had

you can technically do things like this

but you basically have to have it in even splits, fully level, with the same distances

[quaint condor]

Another example would be with aluminium and managing the water by product with the use of valves and unpowered pumps.

[vapid gorge]

anything else isn't load balanced because fluids are bidirectional

so having a junctiong and going 'this splits into 150 150 and 150, that's not actually whats going on

[vapid gorge]

still not balancing. Maybe you're just using the wrong words here

[pastel obsidian]

cobalt hates recycling water

[velvet venture]

does this even matter in case of fluids? I thought they balance themselves regardless of manifolds as they can travel back and forth

[quaint condor]

I guess, I am merely saying that nothing is starving and I don't have anything shutting down due to excess.

[vapid gorge]

like regular belt load balancing, it does not. It's just a thing you can do

[vapid gorge]

that's fine? you can manage to get fluids merging and splitting in weird ways and still get a system to work, especially once it's flooded.

but actual load balancing of pipes is a beast of thing, cause of them being bidirectional

[velvet venture]

does load balancing pipes have any difference whatsoever with manifold pipes? I was under the assumption that they dont.

[vapid gorge]

ehhhh it depends

[quaint condor]

But, again, with the use of valves and unpowered pumps, you could 'technically' balance the fluids by attempting to control the direction of flow.

[vapid gorge]

valves don't manage flow, the machine consumtion after that does the trick

[velvet venture]

I was 150 hours old making my first RF power plant when I realized gases dont need pumps (barely did any big facs with gases anyways)

[quaint condor]

Valves absolutely manage flow ....

not direction, but amount

[vapid gorge]

if the pipes aren't flooded the valves only let X% of the set amount through

you know what else sets the flow? the machines consuming the fluid

[quaint condor]

direction is done with unpowered pumps

[vapid gorge]

the image above is probably very stable. if you turn it on and make sure that everything is always sunk so there is no stuttering. I would argue there's simpler ways to get a reliable system up

[quaint condor]

Anyhow, going to go work on fuel rod production. Thanks again @velvet venture

[grand thicket]

Load balancing is the biggest waste of time and space ever. There are 0 reasons to use it over a manifold.

[vapid gorge]

eh, people can have wasteful goals and it's fine. I just never recommend it as it's a lot of work. Fine if you want to though

[quaint condor]

But as an afterthought, yes, balancing would be the wrong term. Lets go with managing.

[vapid gorge]

I build in circles. Waste of time. I like it. I don't recommend it to people though

[leaden cosmos]

Nuclear reactors and early game biomass burners are where i aim for it

[vapid gorge]

generally when peopel talk about it they talk about things like

which, in the end can work, but it's not being split like that in the end

the machines will end up settling the flow (if a mess like this doesn't become too unstable)

[quaint condor]

And actually, just going over my RF fuel gen plant, every machine is running anywhere from 98% to 100% effieciency.

[vapid gorge]

cause this too is an option

it's a bad option, imo, but an option

but in both cases it depends on each end having machines that consume 450

[hazy sky]

hey, ive got a question about a manifold setup, can i get some assistance from somone whos smarter than i am about this if i drop a screenshot real fast?

[quaint condor]

Yes, 'flow' does not happen unless there is consumption. However if you are over producing, or trying to just run everything from one feed line without a return for the fluids to essentially 'balance' themselves, then you have machines either starving or turning off and on constantly.

[vapid gorge]

that's why you flood the system.

reduces back flow and a good test to see if you ahve flow issues

[leaden cosmos]

I mean its exactly how i would do it 🙂

[quaint condor]

the turning off and on referencing the feed machines.

[vapid gorge]

don't ask to ask, jsut ask

[vapid gorge]

better option is to process each pipe on it's own w/o needless mergers and splits and then merge the output of THAT process to how much you need.
Not saying it can't work ofc, but keeping pipes as simple as possible is always your best bet

[hazy sky]

ive got a setup going here, 240m^3 in, and 240p/m are needed, my back few machines are slow and never have enough foil in them to make the fuel efficiently. am i just missing something here, or do i need to just give the machines time to balance out?

(the pipe thats going across the background is fine, its handing something else and isnt apart of this system)

[quaint condor]

For proper power management, you technically don't want the inital production machines turning off and on. Ideally you'd want them to run constantly so that it doesn't cause surges. However, in cases like this where I am WAY over on power production vs consumption, it's a bit of a moot point.

[vapid gorge]

first trouble shooting step is follow the problem backwards

go to the oil extractor, is it clogged and stuttering on and off?

[hazy sky]

its pumping perfectly fine, no issues

[vapid gorge]

I'm going to ask yo usome leading questions now

if the extractor is working fine and not clogged

but your machines aren't getting enough

what does that suggest?

[quaint condor]

Bring a pipe from the end to the begining ... the back machines are 'starving' because the front machines are consuming and not letting the back machines fill at the same rate

[vapid gorge]

if that was the case the extractor would be stuttering

This is a teaching moment 😛

[leaden cosmos]

Other question is. Are the pipes filling towards the end machines?

[quaint condor]

No. The extractor will keep pumping at the same rate. It's the same reason you pump in from both ends on say a coal setup with water.

[hazy sky]

the pipes at the end are filling, just too slow to keep up the demand of the machines

[vapid gorge]

ok, so in this case it may just be an issue of 'time'. turn one of the machiens to like 1% and let the whole thing flood

[quaint condor]

Or if running 8x coal, pump into the ends and middle to get the total 360m3

[grand thicket]

you’re good 👍 it’s like you said just need to give the machines time

You want to saturate the pipes. Switch all the machines off for a minute then turn them back on.

[vapid gorge]

if you send X fluid pm to a system that uses X fluid pm, and there's a flow issue stuttering back, eventually the extractor would stutter

in this case it's not stuttering

so either

a) it's not pumping out enough fluid
b) they haven't waited for the manifold to balance out

[grand thicket]

or clock them down to 1%

[quaint condor]

You right. my 1000+ hours taught me nothing.

[vapid gorge]

if there was stuttering? absolutely would need to look at flow issues

[low turtle]

Is it alright if another newbie asks a fluid question?

[vapid gorge]

dont' ask to ask 😛

[low turtle]

Gotcha, thanks :D

[remote ice]

Update: These are not project assemblies.

||Some of these cargo pods missed so badly they landed on another planet||

[vapid gorge]

so what's the issue?

[low turtle]

I have this setup with ~550 produced, but I can't that to actually flow out of the pipe. I've tried looping the manifold, adding parallel buffers, and waiting a few hours with no consumption for the pipes to fill, but no luck, is there something I'm missing

[low turtle]

Sry was getting a screenshot to make it clearer

[vapid gorge]

show some overhead shots of the generators?

[low turtle]

I'm taking the output at the end of the line, but have tried both sides as well

[vapid gorge]

and their inputs?

[quaint condor]

Just know, you won't see 'flow' unless there is consumption happening .

[vapid gorge]

that is true, it's connected to the gens right?

[low turtle]

Yep

[vapid gorge]

ok, overhead shots of gens and inputs then pls

[low turtle]

After filling and enabling gens, it would starve in 45 mins

There's a loopback on the long lines, but I've tried with and without

[vapid gorge]

ok a few things I suppose

in your loops you're feeding the bottom pipe ratherthan the top pipe like this I think

[low turtle]

(another just in case)

[quaint condor]

I'd say the first would be to change all the incoming to mk1. Those that go directly into the gens that is. With main feeds being mk2

[low turtle]

Yep

[vapid gorge]

could change that. But is it jsut ONE pipe split into multiple groups feeding all these groups of gens?

[hazy sky]

currently letting the machines fill up, im worried that once all 6 are full, turning the first one back on will just cause the same loop, is there anything i can do once all are full to prevent this from happening a second time?

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, but this is probably the simplest solution

[quaint condor]

ahh, yeah, good catch.

[vapid gorge]

is this group getting fed 550 or is every group on the image ?

[grand thicket]

what are the yellow lights

are they running out of something or are they full?

[vapid gorge]

I don't think it's the somking gun but always something to look out for

[low turtle]

4 lines of gens get one pipe, should be 540 in, those lines are taken from the refineries, and then overflow from the feed lines is taken via variable priority output

[low turtle]

Yeah, unfortunately not :(

[vapid gorge]

this is turbo fuel right?

[low turtle]

Yes

[leaden cosmos]

Stalled input or output

[grand thicket]

ya but which one

[low turtle]

They're full right now, I disconnected them from the gens while trying to troubleshoot

Inputs are good

[vapid gorge]

ugh ok.
two options

1. do you want to spend time to rework this and possibly not get it going?
2. or just rework some stuff and have it run in a different way and almost certainly have it work?

[leaden cosmos]

Have to click on the machine to see

[low turtle]

Um, I'd be happy to do either tbh, whichever gives me a better understanding of the mechanics behind it imo

[vapid gorge]

ok so ... getting a solid understanding of the mechanics is hard

not because I think you're dumb, but because there's so many variables with pipes that it's often very hard to see whats going on.

That's the reason my no 1 rule is 'keep it simple'

[pastel obsidian]

best to go with a community approved layout

[vapid gorge]

like you mentioned you use a VIP somewhere in there?
you can't understand the mechanics of that because it's magic

[grand thicket]

honestly it could be a million possible things

link your save if u can

[low turtle]

Yeah, a VOP to take overflow out of the system specifically

[vapid gorge]

ok so a quick question , does each segment have an overflow? or jsut the one?

[low turtle]

Unfortunately it's a community save that I don't host 😔

[low turtle]

One sec, I'll draw a circuit

[quaint condor]

Also, have you verified that the production side is producing correctly? Building my 400x RF setup, I had minor issues of a mk4 belt that should have been mk5, broken pipe connection, etc.

[vapid gorge]

double checking your math is always good,
as is checking if you have a hidden mk1 pipe section, but if it's happening on all lines unlikely thats it

[leaden cosmos]

I had like 10 in my rocketfuel plant :/ half way down manifolds inside junctions so it was able to spike to 600 but parts where limited to 300

[vapid gorge]

everyone goes through that pain at some point xD

[hazy sky]

update, i’ve increased my oil extractor to pump 300 m^3 into the system, if i just leave it like this, let my system flood, then turn the one underclocked to 1% back to full power, will this cause issues with the other machines staying full if i’m overinputting?

[vapid gorge]

over feeding is fine

[vapid gorge]

AH.

[low turtle]

There's a total of 5 excess, just to account for any save shennanigans

[low turtle]

Did I do a bad?

[vapid gorge]

technically? no.

So the main reason for 'keep it simple' is that it means you can usually trouble shoot thigns much more easily

here you've got multiple huge fluid production lines all interlinked

we don't know where to look

[low turtle]

Yeah, jus a clarification real quick

[vapid gorge]

shoot

[low turtle]

That bit works, the problem is that my manifold coming out of the refinery (the 560 in line on the diagram) puts out less than that consistently

It's not even enough to feed one gen output without the VOPs

[vapid gorge]

unless you're running the pipes at 600 your flow will go up and down somewhat

[hazy sky]

another random question, would load balancing pipes as if they were conveyors make any kind of difference?

[vapid gorge]

.... I mean, technically, yes, but the effort isn't worth it

load balancing pipes is not the same as belts

[wind spade]

you can't really loadbalance pipes

[low turtle]

Yeah, but it starts starving them after 45 mins, even if I completely remove the VOPs and just feed the input directly to gen

[wind spade]

(well you can, but fluid just goes wherever it wants)

[hazy sky]

gotcha. so this is just a waiting game now

[vapid gorge]

well.. yo ucan do things like this

[low turtle]

(just this)

[vapid gorge]

which, from testing apparently gets constant flow and evenly. But ... not worth it

[low turtle]

Yeah, that seems like a lot

[vapid gorge]

yeah see don't know if hte vop is off in this case

[low turtle]

For testing I completely removed the VOP

It was just a pipe from output to input of gens

[vapid gorge]

ok so some simple recommendations for you

1. get rid of all valves and buffers
2. do that little fix on the loops I mentioned above and feed the top pipe.
3. Clock each generator line to use the fuel you're pumping in withut VOP or VIPs or anything
4. flood the system and cross your fingers

this is probably your least effort to solve

[low turtle]

Gotcha, I'll try changing the loops, everything else I've tried unfortunately

[vapid gorge]

do it in combination and then flood 🙂 lots of little thigns add up with pipes

[low turtle]

Ok, sounds good, thanks a ton for the help

[vapid gorge]

no prob. If that doesn't work there are other options

[low turtle]

Would you mind throwing some down here in case it doesn't end up working?

[vapid gorge]

sure, the main next thing I'd suggest is making each segment smaller and simpler. The fewer splits and mergers in manifolds the less shenanigans fluids have, so having a group of refs feeding a single line of gens would be 'simpler'

essentially, a good trouble shooting method for pipes, is to break things down into simpler systems.

This is apart from just looking at basic shapes and elevation changes and other problem areas that could come up

[low turtle]

Got it, thanks again!

[vapid gorge]

and just remember, it's always hard to diagnose pipes when you aren't there, even with lots of images. Maybe there's just something the shots aren't showing. But you get experience looking for things as you go and it's Very common for people's first fluid cluster frack to be a fuel power station

it could come down to accepting the system runs at 95% and make it a learning experience rather than spending hours trying to rejigger it

[low turtle]

Alright, I'll try not to get too attached to 100%, and I've definitely learned a TON from making this, so hopefully next time it'll be nicer

[vapid gorge]

oh absolutely, and .... so many people have been where you are now.

there's definitely a learning curve for pipes

[low turtle]

Yeah, I thought reading the manual could save me, but DCS and this are two very different games lol

Nothing like learning the hard way I guess

[vapid gorge]

the pipe manual is a very good technical manual.
I've never read it really xD

it describes a lot of individual mechanics and observations for pipes. Most of it you don't need though. Unless you're doing fancy things.

[thorn trellis]

Send it ima read it

[low turtle]

Yeah, it was a good primer to try to troubleshoot this, but experience trumps all in the end

[vapid gorge]

and fancy things are fine? but they are generally less reliable in to implement so I don't recommend them

[vapid gorge]

pinned in #math-and-meta , reddit link

[thorn trellis]

Alr

[remote ice]

Update: The planets are definitely physical models located at a vast distance. Using mods I teleported to one of them, it was located at approximately 1,400,000,000 0 500,000,000, or roughly 14,000 km out of bounds