math-and-meta

[edgy leaf]

fn main() {
    let cum_coupon_price: u64 = (1..=10000)
        .map(coupon_price)
        .sum();
    dbg!(cum_coupon_price);
}
fn coupon_price(n: u64) -> u64 {
    if n <= 3 {
        return 500;
    }
    250 * (n.div_ceil(3) - 1).pow(2) + 1000
}

(i was too lazy to use desmos)

[quiet breach]

What’s desmos

[edgy leaf]

(by writing this i found a mistake in the wiki)

[prisma kraken]

use backquote to enter the debug console and type stat FPS

[brisk smelt]

online graphing calcultor

[quiet breach]

Ahhh

[tiny leaf]

oh that sounds trippy

[quiet breach]

I am for sure the dumbest one in the room so this is excellent. Always surround yourself with smarter people ❤️

[tiny leaf]

i can already tell youre a smart person

[quiet breach]

Can you use desmos to calculate how I can get my wife to leave me alone for an hour or so, need to finish my planning 😂😂

[ashen girder]

Your platforms should eventually level out to 602, 301 to each buffer.

[brisk smelt]

"accidentally" spill a pot of soup in the kitchen

[tiny leaf]

this can go 1 of 2 ways

im putting money on him having to end up cleaning it up

[lone cliff]

My average tick rate (accourding to server stats) is 29. Is that good or bad in terms of "T6 belts skip items if your framerate is low"?

[ashen girder]

Ugh laura, I hate waiting for your trains with their timers. 😭

[ashen girder]

Seems low.

[edgy leaf]

why are u trying to look at my trains!

[ashen girder]

To show you the 602!

[edgy leaf]

u can take the hypertube to the other side of the train station

its not timered so most of the time theres no train waiting there

[ashen girder]

Ehh.

[edgy leaf]

its very fast

[ashen girder]

It should show the same number as the current one, I just have to catch it between lockouts.

[edgy leaf]

amazing efficiency...

[ashen girder]

Fun fact, the formatter only runs when you open it.

If you leave it open, it gives up all pretense of being in cubic meters.

[quiet breach]

Yes but after clean up probs get the boot. Not a terrible idea 😂

[quiet breach]

Whatttt

[edgy leaf]

thats crazy

[spare jolt]

this fat ass doesn't even have 4 ports like it's solid storage brother, what's even the point

[lethal condor]

Amazing throughput

[quiet breach]

I get stuck figuring out where to put the train stations and where to take them…. Do you guys have a method on how you plan them?

[lethal condor]

Don't body shame the industrial fluid storage

She's trying her best

[ashen girder]

Although, that suggests they store it in mL, doesn't it. 🤔

[edgy leaf]

in my current build im placing my train stations on opposite sides of the rectangle

[fallen geyser]

Speaking of trains, I'm looking to start setting up an endgame factory with rail lines bringing in mass amounts of raw materials and had two main questions. First, I assume best practice is to have a rail loop around the map common to all resource trains, then use signals to split trains off the main line to gather their respective ore before rejoining the main artery. Is this the case or is it still better to have separate lines for each resource? And secondly, is there a rule of thumb for the ratio of resource nodes to storage cars? I was planning on a system where 1 normal node gets 1 car (so 2 impure nodes get 1 car and 1 pure node gets 2 cars). I assume it's possible to make any ratio work depending on how long the line is and how many copies of the same train setup you have running on it, but there has to be a rough starting point somewhere

Also any pointers on station design would be welcome

[edgy leaf]

dont do seperate lines for each resource. also put signals on the main "artery"

[ashen girder]

Put signals everywhere! (That they belong)

[edgy leaf]

i personally plan to transport 1600 items per minute per car (stack size 200)

[ashen girder]

Buffer all platforms.

[fallen geyser]

And this is where the timing stuff I see you talking about in this channel comes in, I assume

[edgy leaf]

well, it kind of always applies but can be ignored if the ur transporting very little per train car

like sure, depending on ur timing u may only be able to transport 700 instead of 1600, but if ur only planning to transport 600 max then u can ignore it

[fallen geyser]

I'm aiming to transport like a third of the resources on the map to this location

[fallen geyser]

Can you just throw more trains at this particular problem?

[ashen girder]

Nope

[tiny leaf]

Interesting username i must say

[edgy leaf]

just fyi its generally recommended to not do that, because as a rule of thumb item count drastically decreases as the items get more complex

[edgy leaf]

here, if i want to transport 1600 items per minute the time between train arrival times has to be between 81.24 and 240 seconds

[fallen geyser]

Recommended not to do what, have multiple trains on the same line?

[edgy leaf]

move all tne resources to a central location and process them there

having all the trains on one shared network is recommended

[fallen geyser]

That's what I'm aiming to do, are you saying it's a bad idea?

[vapid gorge]

you want something like these for trains buffers #design-and-architecture message

[edgy leaf]

its not a bad idea, but it can make thing more difficult

[fallen geyser]

Like I should process stuff onsite before transport to reduce stack size?

[edgy leaf]

also to reduce lag, the game isnt really optimized for doing everything in one place afaik

and it generally makes logistics easier.

but some people dont care and welcome the challenge and accept the possible performance losses because it can be fun to just make one huge factory

[fallen geyser]

Tbh I find having a bunch of small factories all over the place more of a headache than centralized processing but also I'm still shapez2 brained

[lethal condor]

The game is really designed around independent factories scattered across the map

[tiny leaf]

Yeah im planning to make multiple factories since it just makes life easier overall

[ashen girder]

Signs help.

[edgy leaf]

yep, but u can also just do everything in one place if u want. youll be kinda fighting the game a bit tho

[lethal condor]

It wants you to transport things arouond

[ashen girder]

And having well named stations.

[lethal condor]

Also, trains are fun

[ashen girder]

Don't be like me and leave every station named the default thing, and just remember your HMFs are in Stockholm.

[edgy leaf]

back to go to the topic of tran efficiency and just throwing more trains at it

Y axis is how many items u can transport, x is time

if you want to transport 900 items per minute (stack size 500) with mk4 belts then ur train needs to arrive between every 433.28 and 1066.6 seconds

[ashen girder]

That's so slow. D:

[edgy leaf]

thats 7.23 minutes

[ashen girder]

How many days though?

[edgy leaf]

if a train arrives at the station more than every 7.23 minutes then you will not be able to transport the 900 items

[wind spade]

isn't that fixable with another train (to some degree?)

[edgy leaf]

thats not to say transporting 900 stack size 500 items with mk4 belts is difficult, you have like a 10 minute window where ur throughput is sufficient

[fallen geyser]

So does that mean you only see improvements from a second train once it hits a 15 minute round trip?

[edgy leaf]

1027 seconds is the peak efficiency for that.

aka 17 minutes... at exactly 17.1166 minutes u reach maximum potential throughput

train comes more often than that? loss of throughput. less often than that? loss of throughput

[ashen girder]

More trains primarily helps if you need a shorter time than you actually have, I think.

[fallen geyser]

Is it possible/plausible to make a train loop that takes that long?

[ashen girder]

Since it's time to next train, not round trip time.

[edgy leaf]

the number only cares about time between train arrivals

[ashen girder]

Absolutely yes.

[edgy leaf]

yep exactly.

[edgy leaf]

the easiest way to fix this is to just set the train to wait until fully loaded/unloaded

[ashen girder]

So if your window is 7 - 15 minutes, two trains would only help if your actual trip is 14 - 30 minutes.

[fallen geyser]

The more I learn about train logistics math the louder the voice in the back of my head telling me to just run conveyors across the sky gets

[wind spade]

yeah now thinking back about it that's pretty obvious but hey it's 2am 😄

[fallen geyser]

I know it's the devil but it's so loud

[edgy leaf]

just do this, add a bunch of trains and remove all the ones that arent necessary.

[edgy leaf]

the unnecessary ones will start piling up somewhere

[ashen girder]

If you're lucky, literally!

If you haven't watched trainsplosions, they're pretty amazing.

[lone cliff]

Okay, I read a comment about belt-to-belt connection introducing lag.
So I replaced all the belt connections with mergers, and now the belts are flowing at full line rate.

[fallen geyser]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush

LMFAO "The story made national headlines, and Crush was immediately fired from the Katy Railroad.[12] In light of a lack of negative publicity, however, he was rehired the next day and continued to work for the company until his retirement, in a career spanning six decades.[13]"

two people died

[ashen girder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/xc43ty/heres_the_largest_train_explosion_i_could_pull/

[fallen geyser]

Imagine showing this to someone from 1995 and telling them it isn't prerendered

[ashen girder]

Ehhh, it actually sorta is.

I think his computer was running at like 1fps. 🤣

He just sped it up in the video.

[fallen geyser]

Super slow live simulation is still simulation!

[ashen girder]

🤣 At that point it's just... rendering though.

[fallen geyser]

I think of "prerendered" more as "made by the devs to look better than anything acheivable in the actual engine players have access to"

[ashen girder]

Oh, that's fair.

[fallen geyser]

I'm old enough to remember the presence or absence of prerendered cutscenes being a thing people cared about. Unless they still care about that?

I just remember people in like 2007 talking about it like it was cheesy

[ashen girder]

You can take my WC2 cut scenes from my cold, dead hands.

[fallen geyser]

Broke: prerendered cutscenes
Woke: FMV cutscenes like Red Alert

[ashen girder]

I was literally thinking about those. 🤣

Classic.

[lethal condor]

Hmm, nitro rocket fuel or turbo blend fuel into rocket fuel?

[lethal condor]

I already made half of my power plant with the latter recipe

But then I found the alt and now I'm wondering

I don't really have coal in the area but I do have drones

[brisk smelt]

not really, pre-render isn't as common now

it just looks out of place if suddenly the game turns on ray tracing and stuff

also takes less spaace

[vapid gorge]

that hasn't aged well 😛

[lethal condor]

Whyyyyyy

Sometimes this snaps, sometimes it doesn't

WHYYY

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I've noticed that. It's super inconsistent for belts too.

[subtle goblet]

almist straight out of a creepy pasta

[vapid gorge]

afaik they aren't suposed to snap, you were probably just getting it on a pipe endpoint?

[glossy wagon]

What do i do with the excess water from making aluminums scrap? Is there a way to get it to flush automatically?

[vapid gorge]

use it within the system

[lethal condor]

They're supposed to snap to the blender inputs

[vapid gorge]

blue line is fresh water, red is waste

[vapid gorge]

I've never heard of junctions snapping directly to machines

[glossy wagon]

my god that looks complex lol

[ashen girder]

Yeah, it seems like sometimes the line breaks it, or it's too far, or who knows. It breaks on all machines though, in my experience.

[vapid gorge]

how? it's 2 pipes

[lethal condor]

But it DOES snap to the connection points

[vapid gorge]

example diagram of hte ratios for different recipes

[lethal condor]

Sometimes

[vapid gorge]

are you talking about the ones on the foundations?

[lethal condor]

No, the second level

Like this

[vapid gorge]

yeah I have to imagine it's snapping to like one side of a pipe joint where 2 ends meet

[lethal condor]

I run a blank pipe first, to line up the junctions

Then I put the junctions in line with the inputs, angling them like so

It's not strictly necessary but I like how it looks

Sometimes they snap in place aligned with the inputs

Sometimes they don't. It's unclear what triggers it

[ashen girder]

You can snap splitters/mergers on belts the same way. And it breaks the same way.

[edgy leaf]

they do snap. whats annoying is totally vertical ones dont snap. u have to place them against a wall to get them aligned (it has to be a wall, foundations dont work it makes them be slightly offset)

[ashen girder]

They do, until they don't, because they're lil assholes.

[edgy leaf]

yes its really weird, not as simple as COD makes it out to be i had the same experience

[lethal condor]

It doesn't always though. That's my point. Sometimes they just snap anyway.

[spare jolt]

thanks, brother, but I've already went with 6 stacked small buffers since I had 2 Mk2 pipes and the industrial buffer is too thicc for me

[magic island]

no, junctions can and do snap mid-pipe to align with machine inputs & outputs

it's just not consistent and often depends on the angle you rotate the junction

[edgy leaf]

yep. just do either horizontal or vertical and place on foundations/against walls

[lethal condor]

Eh I just manually align them

Never gonna look close enough again if it's off by a 1/10th of a unit -_-

[edgy leaf]

btw tug i removed even more pumps

[vapid gorge]

you generally only need 1 small buffer for 600 pm from one platform unless it's a long trip

[edgy leaf]

the evil powers of autism prevent me from doing that

[edgy leaf]

even if its a long trip one buffer will suffice.

[glossy wagon]

This is what i came up with.. im a newb compared to you folks

[vapid gorge]

you might need a big buffer if it's a long trip

[lethal condor]

Oh I get it, but I'm beyond cares now. Factorio 2.0 tomorrow

[vapid gorge]

gross

[ashen girder]

Says the person with two buffers on her platforms for 600/min. 😉

[edgy leaf]

my point is the trip duration doesnt make a difference.

at all.

[spare jolt]

it's 2+ kilometers, so I decided to go with 3,600 m3 just to be sure

[glossy wagon]

Thank you for this

[ashen girder]

My point is just being cheeky.

[edgy leaf]

i know.

[fallen geyser]

Just spent 20 minutes troubleshooting and "fixing" an issue where my line of 600 SAM feeding into 5 RSAM Constructors was backed up despite throughput looking normal. Only to realize that since I was using 780/min belts, there was never a throughput issue to begin with: a backed up line nudging forward 4 ore at a time has the same throughput as it would if that same 4 ore was all spaced out evenly. But god does it look so much neater to have everything flowing.

[lethal condor]

I put a dummy junction down by the input and now it's snapping. I'm guessing it's a distance thing. Half a foundation is too far for snapping.

[fallen geyser]

The only criticism of manifold designs relative to balancers that I will accept is that having backed up belts everywhere looks uglier than constantly flowing belts

[sudden hornet]

It's 21st, you're off by a week

plenty of time to reach phase 5

[lethal condor]

Well okay then

[vapid gorge]

like 3km? yeah 1 buffer is fine

[fallen geyser]

Is running km-long pipelines still better than fluid transport trains? I assume so because that's how it is irl but you never know.

[lethal condor]

It's different

Certainly more straightforward

[fallen geyser]

It feels less cheaty than doing the same thing with belts for ores

Even though it's essentially the same thing

[sudden hornet]

I built a separate point-to-point train line for one of my wet concrete builds and getting the buffers right was a puzzle

[cold flower]

I can't seem to find this node, is it bugged, or not ment to be there?

[fallen geyser]

Isn't that the node that's just under the ground mesh? Iirc it's invisble but miners can still snap to it

[ashen girder]

The only belts that should be backed up in a manifold are the ones between the machine input and the splitter.

[cold flower]

Seems like you were correct, interesting bug?

[lethal condor]

Ores are testing the latest stealth technology in the area

[fallen geyser]

I know, and some people don't even like looking at those. The issue I was running into was happening because the last two constructors on my manifold were prefilled with 100 raw SAM before everything got up and running.

[ashen girder]

You can place the splitter close enough that you can't even see those. Sounds like user error.

[sudden hornet]

This one unloads 900/min water reliably

[fallen geyser]

People who care about this kind of stuff also tend to not like clipping lol

[ashen girder]

You don't have to clip.

[vapid gorge]

so 450 each? you could almsot certainly use small buffers then

[fallen geyser]

If you put splitters as close to constructors as possible without the ghost turning yellow, you can still see a bit of the backed up input

[sudden hornet]

I gave up on screwing around with it after some comically unsuccessful attempts

[vapid gorge]

in general use fluids where yo uget them. but yo ucan do it

[vapid gorge]

this does 600pm unloads for reasonable train trip times

[fallen geyser]

Recently I keep running into situations where I'm like "man I wish I had some crude oil for plastic and rubber in this electronics factory"

[vapid gorge]

you could process it at location and move the plastic? it takes a lot of space so often good to have it at another location

[ashen girder]

Yellow doesn't mean it's clipping necessarily.

[fallen geyser]

Yeah really I need to just suck it up and convert the entire Spire Coast to plastic and rubber manufacturing

[fallen geyser]

POV: you are running into throughput issues after finishing your megafactory and missed running an input belt from one of these splitters to the machine

[ashen girder]

Okay?

[fallen geyser]

Lol sorry not an actual critique but I kept having that happen to me

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I've had that happen a lot too. 🤣

Also upgrading belts when they're that close fucking sucks.

[fallen geyser]

Personally I like doing lifts directly out of the output/into the input, with a splitter/merger on the other end

[ashen girder]

Also, you could just use Mk6 lifts. Then you definitely can't see anything paused. 😛

No items visible here!

[vapid gorge]

I don't really recommend that

[brisk smelt]

wtf

[fallen geyser]

This lets you do stuff like having two layers of constructors staggered to take the same input belt

[vapid gorge]

make a dedicated plastic/rubber factory that feeds certain processes. Rather tha njust having a massive hub

[brisk smelt]

no overclock??

[fallen geyser]

Is this supposed to discourage me? I play this game to build stuff like this

[ashen girder]

has issues with clipping, totally fine with floating constructors 🤣

[fallen geyser]

I don't have issues with clipping, I'm saying some people do

Personally I'll clip as much as possible because this is an engineering game and doing the same stuff in a smaller footprint is strictly better

[ashen girder]

Well, fair enough.

[fallen geyser]

Also I'll usually run some beams under the floating constructors to make them look supported, I just finished setting this build up and wanted to make sure it works before doing aesthetics

[vapid gorge]

it's more that it turns into hot garbage. like the image I showed. that's 9k plastic/rubber pm and 10k alum pm.

trouble is logistically it's a mess because it doesn't have direction in to where to go afterwards.

If I'd kept it the trains and belts coming off woudl have been a nightmare.

if you build a very large factory that has a point then you can build with that point in mind

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile, @edgy leaf's goin' all "America, fuck yeah!" on the map.

[fallen geyser]

Yeah but that seems to run contrary to the whole "lots of mini factories all over the place" style the game pushes you towards

[ashen girder]

At some point "mini factories" are pretty big.

[vapid gorge]

nah, big factories just need to have a point. Like this. This has a point

[fallen geyser]

Like you're encouraged to automate as many random parts as you can with given nodes since you'll need them later

[brisk smelt]

if you work from the top down, not really

[edgy leaf]

my poiint is to use up oil and spread it in the environment

[vapid gorge]

the trick there is to find locations and use a mix of recipes to build top down all on location

[fallen geyser]

In my experience, working top down for every new part to automate is exhausting comparing to just mass automating base resources you know you'll need eventually

[edgy leaf]

for a first playthrough, definitely

once u know what ur endgoal is working top down is a lot easier

[vapid gorge]

that's because you spend a lot of time unlocking everything.

once you unlock everything? make new factories top down. Play around with recipes

[edgy leaf]

yes but unlocking everything takes time

also one could argue that im doing exactly what cobalt recommends because i already know what im going to do with every last drop of oil

[brisk smelt]

imo playing straight from t9 is a lot more enjoyable on 2nd playthrough

[edgy leaf]

once im done there will be less than 40 oil per minute left in the entire world

[fallen geyser]

And more importantly, factories that will necessarily be outdated eventually

[lethal condor]

The nice thing about this particular factory game is that there's not really any time pressure. Resources are infinite.

[fallen geyser]

The only factory game with real time pressure is Factorio with biters on tbh

[edgy leaf]

btw @ashen girder have i shown u this before?

thats 37.6 oil left in the entire map

[ashen girder]

😂 Yeah, I think I've seen that.

[edgy leaf]

99.702% oil utilization

[lethal condor]

Captains of Industry and DSP have limited resources as well.

CoI also has maintenance issues

[fallen geyser]

You could be making fabric with that!

[edgy leaf]

maybe ill pipe the last 37.6 into an IFB somewhere

[edgy leaf]

im already making fabric

well not fabric, but filters

same thing

[fallen geyser]

Pipe it into a massive storage array and build a museum around it

[worthy talon]

Will the elevated blender's headlift counteract the lower blenders need for headlift or do I need to add pumps for the bottom blenders

[edgy leaf]

btw i know u can make estrogen from horse urine in modded minecraft (gregtech). is there a mod like that for satisfactory yet?

[fallen geyser]

DarkSydePhil?

[lethal condor]

dyson sphere program

[edgy leaf]

dyson sphere project

or program, its probably program

something with p

[fallen geyser]

You can do it in real life too

[edgy leaf]

i just buy mine already done from some funny internet websites

[fallen geyser]

What would be the satisfactory usage for estrogen lol

[ashen girder]

Should be fine. Just keep an eye on it to make sure it actually is.

[fallen geyser]

"Forcefem" research tree on the MAM

[edgy leaf]

what would be the minecraft usage for estrogen???

[lethal condor]

Minecraft modders be wildin

[fallen geyser]

Jumping further, apparently https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthememes/comments/12yu8z3/an_update_to_my_estrogen_mod_making_everything/

[ashen girder]

HRT, duh.

Pioneer makes her own already.

[edgy leaf]

yea they'd need to add testosterone

makes u stronger == makes u able to carry more items

[fallen geyser]

I love that this is your takeaway

[ashen girder]

I mean, it's a fair takeaway.

[lethal condor]

it's likely that steve is already 150% test

[ashen girder]

At least.

[fallen geyser]

Now the real question, would they be brave enough to give you a syringe gun to forcefem the wildlife

Bimbofied radioactive hogs when

[edgy leaf]

why arre yall so obsessed with forcefem

[lethal condor]

Truly #math-and-meta

[ashen girder]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. "-and-meta" covers a lot of ground.

[edgy leaf]

yes lets get back on topic. what would the ratios for estrogen be?

[fallen geyser]

what if you make it in the converter from alien DNA somehow

[edgy leaf]

good idea

[ashen girder]

Put alien protein in the foundry to get steak. 😄

[fallen geyser]

would it be a pipeable liquid or solid tablet?

id imagine liquid first then further refinement to a tablet

[ashen girder]

Honestly, we could use a new building where we can automate inhalers. It'd go in there.

[edgy leaf]

estradiol esthers are a lot better, pills hurt the liver

[fallen geyser]

[ADA voice] "You are now authorized to use the FICSIT-brand vape shop"

If we're expanding inhaler recipes and effects, it seems like a nobrainer to add psychoactive inhalers derived from mycelium

[edgy leaf]

dont we already have mycelium inhalers..?

[fallen geyser]

Something using turbo fuel that lets you super jump

[fallen geyser]

Isn't that just an alt for a normal medical inhaler? I want something that makes the pioneer trip balls

[edgy leaf]

make it so that the mycelium inhaler gives u an irl intelligence stat boost

[lethal condor]

Okay here's some more BS: The one on the right down the manifold? Snapped just fine.

This one refuses

[fallen geyser]

this is besides the point you're making but i had never considered using the 45 degree offset like that and I like it a lot

[lethal condor]

The other 8 down that manifold, also snapped fine.

[lethal condor]

It lets me place the junction closer to the input without kinking the pipe

[fallen geyser]

Yeah I usually place mine further out and use horizontal to vertical for aesthetics but this looks cooler and is more compact

[lethal condor]

Here's a completed section

[ashen girder]

Try doing it in the other order?

[lethal condor]

Didn't seem to help

[ashen girder]

Yeah, didn't think it would. 😦

[fallen geyser]

Chrome finish is so addicting, I have to stop myself from slapping it on everything like that one Spongebob episode

[lethal condor]

There's also this issue: Both pipes are regular, not 'clean' pipes.

The overlapping junctions apparently cause slight clipping on the pipe and prevent the flowmeter from showing

But only on one side

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that happens too. 😂 I've got a manifold like that with 3 machines, the middle one's input doesn't have an indicator but the other two do.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the clipping thing.

Apparently power cords can make them not show up even.

[lethal condor]

Just satisfactory(tm) things 😊

[sudden hornet]

you got Clean Pipes(TM) for free

[leaden cosmos]

If you rotate the junction another 180 it changes back (they ate not perfectly symmetrical)

[lethal condor]

Yeah probably but I don't want to reconnect them all again

It's weird that the junctions aren't symmetrical across their hitbox

[fallen geyser]

Wait, so the model itself is symmetrical, but it's not centered in its hitbox?

[lethal condor]

Correct

[fallen geyser]

Lol. Lmao, even.

[lethal condor]

Example: see here

[ashen girder]

Well, there's a long axis and a short axis. I thought the long axis was along the pipes?

[lethal condor]

I rotate 90 degrees

Yeah the 'long' axis is along the main pipe. The 'short' axis is parallel the weld

[ashen girder]

If you look, they actually aren't totally symmetric. One pipe sticks up more than the other pipe.

[lethal condor]

The 'main' pipe and then the two welded sections

But it's still the same physical length. Just the hitbox isn't square

[vapid gorge]

#555516979260293132 message

[glossy wagon]

I cannot figure out why this is only 45% efficiency

[lethal condor]

Show us the full system

Machines working at less than 100% efficiency means either

1. they're not getting input fast enough
2. they're not able to output fast enough

[fallen geyser]

Is silica output backed up?

[lethal condor]

Are you using the alumina fast enough?

If either of the outputs backs up, production stops

[glossy wagon]

No, its got two empy industrial containers

[glossy wagon]

its output is 240m and the next refinery is using 240

[lethal condor]

Use smart splitters to sink the overflow silica.

Better yet, get yourself a hard drive and find the sloppy alumina alt recipe

[lethal condor]

Is it always using it, though?

Because your first picture showed fluid in the output buffer

That only ever happens if it's not able to output fast enough

That means there's alumina backing up downstream

[glossy wagon]

I changed it.. The fluids always confuse me in this game. My first refinery is taking in 120 bauxite and 180 water per minute outputting 120 alumina solution and 50 silica per minute. (Does it matter that the alumina solution is (12 m3) solution.) My next refinery I had to underclock to 120 alumina solution and 60 coal per minute outputting 180 aluminum scrap and 60 water per minute

[lethal condor]

That's why I recommend sloppy alumina. The ratios are gooder.

[glossy wagon]

cool... i just unlocked alumina so I'll have to go out and find some hard drives cause I believe it doesn't allow you to unlock it it in mam until you discover it right?

[lethal condor]

Correct yes

Once you get the tech unlocked you can find the alt recipes

[fallen geyser]

@glossy wagon what tier of belt do you have access to right now?

[glossy wagon]

Thanks guys for all your help

[glossy wagon]

mk 4 belt mk 1 pipe

[vapid gorge]

I susually save a few hdds for bauxite unlock yeah 🙂

[vapid gorge]

get mk2 pipes unlocked 🙂

should be trivial at this point

[fallen geyser]

Because you can be building multiple refineries instead of just one

Mk4 belt is 480/min, so that's your limit on incoming bauxite

[glossy wagon]

my bauxite im transporting across the map on a 120 node

[lethal condor]

Overclock your miners

[fallen geyser]

Always always ALWAYS overclock your miners to 250%

[glossy wagon]

ok

[fallen geyser]

Unless it would exceed the belt limit

[lethal condor]

Mk2 miner on a pure bauxite node pulls 600

Which is a perfect ratio for sloppy alumina

[fallen geyser]

Mk4 belts are only 480 tho

Still works out

[glossy wagon]

this is my first time ive ever completed phase 3 so its like a whole new game up to this point...

[lethal condor]

Yep. So you can do it just fine with an underclocked machine.

[fallen geyser]

Yeah if you do the math and you need 150% of the throughput of some specific building, you can either overclock one to 150% OR add a second building underclocked to 50%

[lethal condor]

Here's an example of an aluminum plant I made today https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/1295137804682002432/image.png?ex=670d8e93&is=670c3d13&hm=2be0c31fd4e36a5cb1a467ef96242f9be7e65ceceb7ae5a7525b0589ef30c131&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/1294882317524795463/image.png?ex=670d4962&is=670bf7e2&hm=9940028dbde02a2c2058071cf33770214f00971b69ed57c4158fc5578efe3697&

This module is a blueprint

White is sloppy alumina refinery

Directly feeds the aluminum scrap refinery, which outputs into a wet concrete refinery

[glossy wagon]

Yeah someone just helped me out with formulas... I'm not a smart man (forest gump gif*)

[fallen geyser]

Sloppy alumnia + pure ingots simplifies alumina production soooo much

[lethal condor]

Yeah, pure aluminum ingot is a good recipe to match with this

[fallen geyser]

Honestly if you're having issues with aluminum it might be worth taking a break to go hard drive hunting

[glossy wagon]

I appreciate all youze help though, big time

[fallen geyser]

Do you have the jetpack?

It makes hard drive hunting so much more viable

[edgy leaf]

@ashen girder

[glossy wagon]

Yes.

I have the lower half of the map pretty well covered... I need to get the hazmat suit for some of them because the radiation fucks me up

[fallen geyser]

You can either use slooped up constructors and refineries to turn animal parts into packaged liquid biofuel or buy turbofuel from the awesome shop to reach tricky drives

And smokeless powder in the awesome store gets you a lot of ammo for 1 ticket if you sloop the ammo constructor

[glossy wagon]

Yeah really the only hard drives, sloop, and mercer spears i dont have in the lower half are because of radiation

[fallen geyser]

Oh wow, you have that much and just got to aluminum? Impressive

Or rather, you have that much stuff this early in the tech tree

There are more drives than alt recipes so you're not gonna miss anything

[glossy wagon]

i pretty much have all the tech i can unlocked.. including the depot

only need 23 mercer spears to compelte it fuly

[lethal condor]

Oh also, I'd recommend when making byproducts to use a smart splitter to overflow the excess, like so

[jagged vortex]

I have a small question about logistics. I see a bunch of pictures with guides involving a bunch of machines with splitters in sort of a design like ++++ and I have to wonder how is that productive? Wouldn't it just jam up the frontmost machines and leave the lastmost machines needing recourses?

[lethal condor]

No, that's how manifolds work.

[fallen geyser]

It does jam up the first machines, that's the operating principle

[lethal condor]

The 'jam up' just sends resources further down stream to be collected by the other machines in the manifold.

[jagged vortex]

Isn't the point to not jam up machines for maximum throughput?

[lethal condor]

That is maximum throughput

The input buffers filling up doesn't stop production.

[fallen geyser]

Imagine if the belts from each splitter to the machine had a maximum throughput exactly equal to the rate the machine consumes resources at. A belt leading into a backed up machine does exactly that.

[amber jacinth]

if parts in = parts out and no belt limits are exceeded, it doesn’t really matter how the machines are belted up

[fallen geyser]

It frees up slots at exactly the rate the machine consumes them, because that consumption is what frees up the slots

[lethal condor]

This is called a manifold and it works all the way up to the capacity of consumption

If your machines in the line need 600 resources in, and you feed them 600 down a manifold, they'll all be working

It just might take a little bit to start up

[fallen geyser]

The only caveat is that manifolds will take a bit to get running at full efficiency while stuff backs up

[wind spade]

simple - what happens when you send more to a machine that needs less?

[fallen geyser]

But if you do your math right, the input and output belts will be moving at the same speed they would be with balancers

[lethal condor]

Works with fluids too. Here's a manifold of fuel gens:

First machine in the line is full

Last one gets just enough

[jagged vortex]

I'm going to admit this does hrt my dumb brain. Let me see if I have a screencap of my current build that I'm going to dismantle since we just unlocked driller 2s.

[lethal condor]

As long as you're supplying enough input to = consumption, it works fine.

[fallen geyser]

It is kind of magical watching all the intermediate belts back up while the net input and output belts move at full throughput with no interruptions

[jagged vortex]

Okay so this is my current "all-in-one" iron factory - or at least before I fine-tuned it but the input lines are the same. Please don't kill me for this

[fallen geyser]

Lol my starter factory looked almost exactly like that

[lethal condor]

Yeah there's two ways you can load machines. That way you're loading them is called load balancing, where you split the inputs evenly into each machine.

The other style is the aforementioned manifold.

Like this.

[fallen geyser]

The only situations in the base game where balancing is actually necessary are for loading early game biofuel generators, and for dealing with nuclear waste

And train stations I suppose

[lethal condor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbNdBT3zPo

Here's a video explaining the differences in more detail.

[prisma kraken]

small nitpick, every means of passing stuff in a belt or pipe network is a manifold, then there are subclasses of that that evenly distribute or have other properties

[jagged vortex]

I think I'll have to give manifolds because it's so much less painful to just add up machine input/output instead of having to whip out ms paint to try and balance stuff.

That's not a joke

I used ms paint.

[fallen geyser]

We've all been there

[prisma kraken]

haha, yeah

[lethal condor]

Yeah I'm just speaking generally. But you right

[prisma kraken]

in general, building quickly and compactly makes using manifolds make sense

[lethal condor]

Might I recommend, Obsidian

[jagged vortex]

Plus it de-spaghetifies a lot of stuff.

[fallen geyser]

The other big benefit of manifold designs over balancers is that they're more easily expandable, since you just slap more modules onto the end of the line

[lethal condor]

It's a free piece of software for note taking and making stuff like this

[jagged vortex]

GOD I NEEDED THAT THE WHOLE TIME

[lethal condor]

It's free for non-commercial use

[prisma kraken]

i do most of my designs with sp.runesun.com, which gives you views like this:

[jagged vortex]

I came here for copper and found gold it seems

[fallen geyser]

caterium*

[prisma kraken]

^^^that was just me noodling out whether the bolted recipes could be of any value

[jagged vortex]

So now this means I can just create a manifold and add machines when needed instead of just raw balancing everything. Moreover this means I can MUCH more easily expand the factory.

[fallen geyser]

Oh yeah and devising balancers that account for weird fractional amounts of buildings will make you want to kill yourself

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you still have to heed practical limitations

manifolds can only be as long as belt capacity allows

[jagged vortex]

It would if I didn't find a site with a balancer for that very thing.

[jagged vortex]

So manifolds are limited via the travel speed of the belts, where currently it's 120/min, right?

[lethal condor]

For mk2 belts sure

[fallen geyser]

Everything is limited by the travel speed of the belts tbh

[jagged vortex]

Hence I said currently.

[lethal condor]

You could always add a second belt further down the manifold if you want

[jagged vortex]

Still working on t4.

[prisma kraken]

well, belts go up to 1200/min

[lethal condor]

Once you get steel, mk3 belts are much easier to make than mk2s

And go up to 270

[jagged vortex]

I am working on t4 I don't got the big nyooms.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, mk2 belts are 2nd most expensive belt in the game

[lethal condor]

Mk2s and Mk4s are kinda weird because they take a more complex resource to make

Most people just design around mk3s and mk5s

[prisma kraken]

mk6's too, but by the time you get there you don't really care

[fallen geyser]

Yeah steel beams and alclad sheets are so easy to churn out

[jagged vortex]

Looks at dedicated R. Plate maker

[lethal condor]

Reinforced plate is easy to make sure but steel beams are even easier

[jagged vortex]

Valid.

[lethal condor]

And aluminum, though a complicated process, churns out LOOOOTs of ingots

[prisma kraken]

everything that you make from aluminum thought east lots of ingots as counter point 😛

[lethal condor]

Aluminum stuff is hungry yeah

[jagged vortex]

So for the current time being, the manifold I could make with one Drill2 on a normal vein would be connected to... 4 smelters?

[lethal condor]

For iron? Sure

[fallen geyser]

Right now you're more limited by belts than miner throughput

[lethal condor]

Iron and copper ingots have the same ratio

Eventually you'll always want to fully overclock your miners

[fallen geyser]

Always overclock your miners to 250%

[lethal condor]

To pull out the maximum amount of ore

[fallen geyser]

Unless it exceeds belt limit

[lethal condor]

You're generally always gonna be limited by the amount of raw ores you can draw out of node

[jagged vortex]

Okay so rush Logistics 3 and then overclock the miners 3x to make a bigger manifold.

[fallen geyser]

Pretty much yeah

[lethal condor]

Yeah. I generally design to the amount of ore I can pull out of a single node

[brisk smelt]

not anymore as of v1.0

[lethal condor]

Well not at the end of the game sure

[jagged vortex]

And the only real math I need for this is (Belt speed) / (Item smelted/min)

[prisma kraken]

since i still have it lying around, here's my early game rip & rotor lines:

[lethal condor]

But a mk2 miner on a pure node can extract 600, which you won't be able to pull until mk5 belts

[lethal condor]

Correct yes. Or more generally (Input/m) / (Consumption/m)

Since you won't always be providing a full belt of things

[jagged vortex]

I mean it's still better than... well

[fallen geyser]

And fractions can be either overclocked or underclocked buildings

[lethal condor]

...Yes...

Manifolds are good

[fallen geyser]

ultrawide?

[lethal condor]

1440p babyyyy

[jagged vortex]

This is some serious spaghetti. Some literal linguini. Assured angel hair. Focused fettuchini

Thank you so much. This makes fixing everything so much easier.

[verbal lake]

weird, the ss is not 1440p lol

[lethal condor]

Yeah I didn't screengrab the whole window

[verbal lake]

ah ok running 3440x1440?

[lethal condor]

Yeah

[verbal lake]

nice gen set up

[lethal condor]

It's about to get bigger

This is only half of the production

I just finished the left half

The set of 10 blends on the right is making nitric acid for both the sets of 12

[fringe pawn]

Damn. I was hoping to create a system where I could use a priority power switch to remotely disable the power to a satellite portal, so I could always just have one main portal at home. But you can't link back to a home portal even if the satellite portal it was linked to has its power shut off.

[lethal condor]

Yeah pretty sure you have to keep them on

Or else way the startup power cost again

[fringe pawn]

I don't care about the start up cost.

I wanted one master portal at home, and to just link up to it on demand from satellite portals.

[charred oxide]

@limber cairn
I cannot post this in #satisfactory but this is what you want to do.

[regal belfry]

This guy gets it

[keen sail]

Could you give some examples of when you would utilize a junction like this? Still learning ways to optimize and this looks basic yet interesting!

[lethal condor]

Most commonly used for recycling waste water from aluminum production

Scrap produces water a byproduct

Personally I don't bother to recycle it with a junction like this. I just use it to make wet concrete and sink the concrete.

[charred oxide]

The first and most common situation is ALuminum production
Where you have water as a biproduct in a lot of cases, alts ir no alts.

most people prefer to reuse that water in the production, rather than try and find a way to get rid of it.

[keen sail]

Okay, I’m still early in the game on phase 2 of the space elevator so I still have a ton to learn!

[charred oxide]

You'll get there soon enough.
It's with oil that you start dealing with bi-products.
Buildings and recipes that output 2 things from 2 different slots.
If either one backs up, the machine shuts off and stops producing.

[glossy yew]

I still havent done my aluminum stuff but I am thinking on both reusing water as well as shipping it off elsewhere to be burnt off(Diluted Fuel mayhaps)

[keen sail]

Yeah, I saw that watch Imkibitz currently let’s play with fuel packaging.
Im trying to utilize smart splitters in storage room to dump over flow into a sink to keep everything moving

[charred oxide]

I mean that is an option but seems like a hefty logistical load

[ebon crater]

Is there a general formula for items per minute througput knowing the length of a train loop? Bc I just spent 10 hours setting up rails for a factory(over two weeks) and was on the final stretch when I realised my quartz throughout wasn’t high enough neither my oil(i know fluid trains are less efficient but they also look super cool)

[lethal condor]

@edgy leaf can help you out with this

Ctrl F her comments in this channel to see the math above

[plucky tusk]

doing math with blenders is so fun

[charred oxide]

Soon I'll be making 6 thousand fuel per minute on diluted.
Will make for a great power setup

[plucky tusk]

ill be getting like 600 for mine

using the blender recipe

for turbo fuel

uses 15 per minute and makes 45

[charred oxide]

I'm using 100% of the oil on the west coast.
All to fuel.
Eventually for turbo and rocket fuel
But at least fuel for now

[plucky tusk]

how many generators you got?

[charred oxide]

Haven't gotten there yet.
I got the blenders down but pipes aren't hooked up yet.
What's the fuel burn rate again?

[plucky tusk]

fuel is 20

turbofuel is 7.5

iirc liquid biofuel is 37.5

[charred oxide]

That'll be 300 gens on regular fuel once the project is done then.

[plucky tusk]

hell yeah

i just got 2 pure nodes of oil max overclock

and then using some petroleum coke from the plastic and rubber refineries

[charred oxide]

I got sick of being in the dune desert and went all the way to the west coast for this
And aluminum.

But I am using the oil in the desert for plastic snd rubber

[plucky tusk]

im getting like 540 per minute from it

i made a steel factory over the weekend making 1560 steel ingots per minute using like 14 impure nodes max overclock

down in the grassland

[plucky tusk]

what do you think of the aluminum blender alt?

[charred oxide]

I haven't gotten it yet.

[glossy yew]

I am doing a train megabase so logistically it is only hooking a few pipes into a train station

[plucky tusk]

it basically skips the bauxite refinement. just puts all the shit in a blender and you get aluminum chunks

[pastel obsidian]

I have never seen anyone use it

[plucky tusk]

im gonna try it

[charred oxide]

Huh
Fancy.
But like.. does it have a poor return on scrap for bauxite in?

[thorn bane]

its fine if you dont mind using sulfur

[plucky tusk]

idk i havent done the math yet

[pastel obsidian]

It is tempting only for the reason I don't have to the refinery

[plucky tusk]

im still doing turbofuel in blenders and thats a whole other thing

[charred oxide]

Ooh, it uses sulpur. Ok.
Yea every one says there isn't enough Sulphur as is lmao

[plucky tusk]

im gonna be getting 1800 turbo fuel a minute from 40 blenders

doesnt even use coal and its like 900 Sulphur a minute

[fringe seal]

is 6000 silica/min decent

[thorn bane]

too much

[fringe seal]

ah

on related note I might have made my trains too short

[prisma kraken]

i did the same with 600 sulfur+900 crude - numbers worked out nicely at that size

rather straightforward build if you clock things intelligently

i designed it as i did so that i could stick a blender on every output line to convert it to rocket fuel when i need more power

also, something of a trick i did was have all the generators clocked down to 83.3333% which means when the time comes for rocket fuel, the same number of generators will burn the RF at 250%

i needed 192 generators for it, i think for 1800 tf, you'd need 288 generators

[plucky tusk]

lol we havent even unlocked rocket fuel

[plucky tusk]

thx for the tip

[prisma kraken]

check my math on it all plz, i'm citing numbers from memory

[plucky tusk]

yeah i probably will when i unlock it

[prisma kraken]

its not a hard unlock when you start making aluminum

[plucky tusk]

been using a lot of powershards

[prisma kraken]

me too, i have most of the map cleared of slugs

i made a point of doing a mark & sweep through each biome really just to explore and find new stuff with the release

[plucky tusk]

and a lot of alt recipes, dont remember too many in early access

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i have all of them unlocked at this point except for the last traunch of t9 recipes for dark matter

[plucky tusk]

yeah we're like halfway through t7

[prisma kraken]

most recipes haven't changed too much except to become less annoying

[plucky tusk]

also alot easier to get now

[prisma kraken]

yes and no, gaming the recipe unlocks is different now and harder

[lethal condor]

It's not really hard it's just time consuming

[prisma kraken]

the recipe pool really expands quite a bit with both steel and oil

that coupled with the fact that the alloy unlocks have been pushed back into the steel teir of unlocks kind of stinks

[lethal condor]

If you don't select the recipes then they can't roll again

And now they added a scroll bar so you can have more than 10 sets waiting at a time

You can also save-scum the reroll if you want to

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'll figure out how to break it all after this playthrough i'm on 🙂

[lethal condor]

But a recipe that's waiting for you to pick, can't roll again on a hard drive scan or reroll

So just sit on the recipes you don't want and scan new drives

[prisma kraken]

i know, but oft times i want those recipes, lol

very few recipes are bad now

what i'm still scratching my head about is fine concrete

[plucky tusk]

i still gotta make blender and refinery blueprints

can you fit fuel generators in a bluprint?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they're 2.5x2.5

[plucky tusk]

so 4?

[prisma kraken]

if you don't want pipes or wanna do janky clipping, sure

[plucky tusk]

nah i have an idea

[prisma kraken]

you can do all sorts of things where you stack them in between each other's smoke pipes, etc

it just isn't worth it imho... you want every consumer on a pipe manifold to be at the same height

[lethal condor]

The only BP I make for gens is adding a wall connector on their power plug so I can daisy chain them, and sometimes adding power shards for overclocking

[plucky tusk]

so 2 clean?

[prisma kraken]

this is my generator bp i have a complementary one w/o the pipe for the other side

[lethal condor]

Don't you need to reconnect the pipe?

[prisma kraken]

of course, you're going to need to run down the line and connect the pipes anyway

[plucky tusk]

i might not use blueprints for gens then

[prisma kraken]

here's what it looks like after building a bunch

it saves you some time for the power cables and setting clock speed, possibly in placing the pipe junctions

[thorn bane]

wait you dont have 4x4?

*2x2

[prisma kraken]

i wanted them spaced out more than i could fit in the 5x5 bpd

[thorn bane]

i even did it in 4x4 xD
(altought that looked horrible)

[prisma kraken]

when it comes to anything pipe related, i don't like crunching things to make them fit

pipes take the space that they're going to take and i don't compromise on that

[plucky tusk]

ive done my fair share of crunching

[prisma kraken]

i'm truly done playing the 'pack-it-in-there' game

in u7 & u8 when the bpd was new, i did it and really got tired of being forced to build a specific way

[plucky tusk]

fueled 16 coal gens with a 7 meter gap

8x2

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you can't do that in the 4x4 bpd anymore

[plucky tusk]

not in the bluprint lol

[quiet breach]

where would you guys build a mega factory pretty much gearing up for phase 4, tiers 7/8/9? I need an absolute metric ton of water

[prisma kraken]

in any event, i haven't been using bp's too much

[prisma kraken]

good places: eastern, western, northern coastline; blue crater, lake forest & crater lakes

be careful on the coastlines, you can't place water extractors past a certain invisible line that is well before the kill border

[quiet breach]

sweet thats kind of what I was thinking... run a train along east to northern through all the factories spread out, other train routes going inside for goods

[prisma kraken]

it looks like water out there, but it actually is really just void

[quiet breach]

im probably going to need .... 100-300

[prisma kraken]

also, don't forget about the water wells, they're good for ~1500 water each

[quiet breach]

ohhhh yeah forgot about them, I mapped out from what I want to make to the resource needed... except water... just figured as I go ill be grabbing.

now its time to explore new stuff, figure out lay out, numbers ish are done

brain wrecked

[prisma kraken]

the coastlines are great for it all (including the swamp)

[quiet breach]

swamp is where i did my aluminum sstarter

little away from warerfall

[prisma kraken]

but with large water builds (eg nuclear), probably prudent to prototype the extractor placement b4 doing anything else

[quiet breach]

havent gotten there yet

[prisma kraken]

i've painted myself into a corner a few times by building the factory before the extractors 😄

[quiet breach]

just laid out propulsion, pressure conversion cubes, super computers, cooling system, turbo engines, radio control units

oh shoot really? what happened? realized you needed way too many?

[prisma kraken]

got creative with janky placement and piping

[quiet breach]

eek, how far off the coast is said "void"

[prisma kraken]

but there's also weird stuff like along the northern coastline, there's this invisible hump in the water, on one side of it extractors sit a meter or two higher on the water

[quiet breach]

odd

[prisma kraken]

its a real SOB if you placed some bp's above where the extractors go and the hitboxes collide on one side of that line

the game won't let you place a bp or extractor with overlapping bounding boxes

[quiet breach]

build from scratch or move location?

[prisma kraken]

that's the type of stuff that after 10 hrs of factory building you really want to ragequit when you discover

[quiet breach]

100%

[prisma kraken]

i've done both, but have gotten pretty wise over time at thinking that i should do lightweight prototyping as a starting step

[quiet breach]

alum factory right now not getting enough coal in one of the refineries.... went back down the line and saw one lift mark 4... 600 on belt.... so going from machine down entire thing lol

im an idiot and going to go crazy... probs way way way too much for me, but at least its an insane goal

[prisma kraken]

always a party, lol

[quiet breach]

im not sure if it helped, or made it more difficult running through what i did.....

[prisma kraken]

i'm right now slowly working towards 90 hmf/min in blue crater

so. much. concrete.

[quiet breach]

oh crap

i was going to do 50

but realize i dont think i need that many

so picked 30 mainly for fused frames

[prisma kraken]

they're 1:1 with FMF & PCC

[quiet breach]

already have a starter doing some for storage. good there. whats pcc

[prisma kraken]

pressure conv cube

[quiet breach]

ohh pressure

yeah yeah noticed that, which is why I think 15/15 is ok?

or i mean 30*

[prisma kraken]

you need them for pasta

[quiet breach]

.....

did not look into pasta

[prisma kraken]

pasta, besides being a p4 & p5 elevator part is needed for singularity cells

[quiet breach]

i guessi ll get there at the end... and if need more ill just build a solo factory for it lol

cannot change what i did now lol so shhhhh

let my future self be mad

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm thinking 90 hmf may not end up being enough

[quiet breach]

😂

ohhhh for the lord of it

slooops?

[prisma kraken]

i'm wanting to build out a full nuclear with ficsonium

but the singularity cells are also used as portal fuel

idk exactly what my plan is, just know for now i'll probably need the 90/min of hmf i'm building and probably another hmf factory of similar size somewhere else

[quiet breach]

shoot

im so far from that, it may give me something to do at that point once this stupid idea is done lol.

are you teleporting yet?

[fringe pawn]

I think I'm going to stick with 20 singularity cells a minute, and try to remember to always unlink portals behind me.

[quiet breach]

ok so..... my belt has spaces between the coal... 600 on 780... which id assume is normal.... not sure why this system isnt feeding the machines

[glossy yew]

Mathematically, which is more resource efficient(resources per megawatt) -Nuclear or Fuel power

[lethal condor]

Fuel. There's a lot more oil on the map than uranium.

And it requires far fewer advanced products.

Now that rocket and ionized fuel exist, your only limitation is building the fuel gens, and the space that needs.

[vast jungle]

for turbo- and rocketfuel the limitation is more about Sulfur than Oil anyways

[lethal condor]

Yeah but that only matters if you want to use all of it.

[vast jungle]

still turning 270 oil, 380 sulfur/coal and 400 nitrogen into 1000 (or 2000 with 16 Sloops) Rocket Fuel feels a bit insane 😄

[glossy yew]

I recently got 4 uranium fuel rods a min and 3x250% reactors and feel like it was that much simpler

[lethal condor]

Sure

Now what are you gonna do with the waste

[glossy yew]

Store it cuz I didnt unlock particle stuff yet

[glossy yew]

I put like 15x industrial storage for it

[lethal condor]

Two 600 oil nodes

[glossy yew]

How many of them megawatts

[lethal condor]

160,000ish

[pastel obsidian]

Flush it or a box of shame

[fringe pawn]

Rocket fuel sloops so well that the value of nuclear is diminished pretty hard.

[vast jungle]

I am still working on an idea how to make 480 Fuel generators look good 😉

[prisma kraken]

is sulfur really still the limiting factor?

[vast jungle]

you can sloop nuclear fuel rod production too

[vast jungle]

you need more sulfur than oil for turbo/rocket fuel... and there is less sulfur than oil on the map

[fringe pawn]

Rocket fuel goes up way faster than nuclear though.

[glossy yew]

Hmmm

[pastel obsidian]

A giant Borg cube

[vast jungle]

not sure I believe in the look of borg cubes on the ground 😉

I have built too many (small scale) of them

[pastel obsidian]

Put it in the sky

'''We are the Borg, you will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own; your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile!'''

[prisma kraken]

not sure that math holds up anymore, 12600 oil should only take 8400 sulfur to make it all into tf for a total of 14x1200 = 16800 TF

[spare jolt]

Hey all. Do gasses behave the same way as liquids? (the bottom pipe is filled first)

[vast jungle]

depends on the recipe...

[lethal condor]

Nope. They don't need headlift.

[vast jungle]

you can trade between oil and sulfur a bit with normal vs. turboblended fuel

[spare jolt]

So I can't make an overflow pipe with gasses, I guess?

[prisma kraken]

i was thinking blended tf, the other recipes use more sulfur of course. when converting to rocket fuel, you do get back some compacted coal, i'd be surprised if that doesn't make up the difference

[lethal condor]

Not really no

[prisma kraken]

i do not believe that works, no

[vast jungle]

it makes a difference... with the 1000/2000 RF plan, you need 280 sulfur instead of 380 when you sloop the central blenders

[prisma kraken]

its also sort of moot and academic as well with the converters

[vast jungle]

so it becomes 270 Oil, 280 Sulfur (and coal) and 400 nitrogen => 2000 RF (for 16 sloops)

[lethal condor]

Converters still are limited by SAM.

[vast jungle]

a few more sloops in the Nitric Acid production might also reduce the Nitrogen

[glossy yew]

There are gasses in the game?

[prisma kraken]

yep

[vast jungle]

still.. 480 Fuel Generators.... 😐

[vast jungle]

in game terms: gas = liquid without headlift limit

[glossy yew]

What kind of scary endgame is that for

[vast jungle]

e.g. Rocket Fuel

[glossy yew]

I am merely working on my aluminum still

[prisma kraken]

well, you should be at about the point then that you start needing nitrogen

also rocket fuel and ionized fuel are gases

[lethal condor]

Gases are easier than liquids

[glossy yew]

Not in Aluminum tho, I only need water, bauxite and petroleum coal for my aluminum productions

[prisma kraken]

except coming out of a fluid train car 😄

[lethal condor]

No headlift issues and they only need pumps to direct flow.

[glossy yew]

Also iirc some people said fluid floor holes can cause issues, but I never experienced that so like, what?

[lethal condor]

They do

They randomly reset headlift.

It's an old bug they supposedly patched out, but uhhh

1.0 !

[prisma kraken]

sometimes a pipe through a floorhole doesn't connect properly and you have to find and rebuild it

same thing can be said for conveyor lifts

just easier to visually see with lifts

[lethal condor]

That's a different issue

[glossy yew]

Am I lucky then or smthn?

[lethal condor]

Floor holes work fine sending fluid DOWN, mind you

It's pumping up through them that you'll find issues.

[prisma kraken]

chances are that you just build things in an order where the issue doesn't trigger

[glossy yew]

Tbf all my floor holes have one-segment pipes and those have pumps on both sides as well.

[prisma kraken]

when it happens, you just delete & rebuild and things work

[lethal condor]

That's not super great when a flow interruption causes your power plant to shut down

So I just don't bother using them for critical infrastructure

[prisma kraken]

that's why you create small failure domains.

[glossy yew]

Well I am trying to not kill my power grid, it didn't die since biofuel era

But once I have to get particle colliders that may change...

[prisma kraken]

you're fuel plant shouldn't be one set of machines pushing stuff into one fuel manifold, but sets of machines all independently supplying different sets of generators

[glossy yew]

Uuuh

[prisma kraken]

my fuel plant for instance is partitioned into 8 (almost) separate parts

[glossy yew]

All my power generation setups are obscenely small compared to what most people build. In early game I lived on 4 coal generators.

All the way till Fuel Generators.

Then I put an entire impure node into basic fuel

[prisma kraken]

i can take down 1/8th of the plant and it doesn't break my grid

[lethal condor]

I mean I overproduce anyway

Building power is easy with rocket fuel

I have 200GW and I'm using like 30

[prisma kraken]

i might argue: too easy

[glossy yew]

Ficsit simplifies it for you to build more

We need Water to Steam conversion instead, and then recondenser Steam engines to reuse water.

[prisma kraken]

or because they wondered why no one ever builds in the blue crater 😄

[lethal condor]

I mean, that's pretty much what coal gens are

And nuclear plants

[glossy yew]

And literally any generator

[lethal condor]

I built my plastic and turbofuel factory in the blue crater

[glossy yew]

Whats the blue crater

My train network only spans the northern edge of the map

[lethal condor]

This part of the map, with the mouse

[glossy yew]

Yeah I am yet to train there

And then it might be extremely inefficient for my trains to go there due to sheer distance

[lethal condor]

My train highway goes all the way around the perimeter of the map

[glossy yew]

My train ends somewhere along the red line I just added

But starts near the northmost oil

And the 5 or 4 pure iron nodes

That I turn directly into iron ingots fully

Some day I probably will upgrade it with water

[old tree]

can we replace these pumps with valves now on an input priority setup? https://i.redd.it/iz92xbojhic71.png

my alumina setup is killing me

[vast jungle]

even priority setups can fail easily if your facility block at some point

better don't mix waste-water and fresh-water at all

[glossy yew]

If only mk3 pipes existed...

[old tree]

I even seperated fresh water from scrap water and it's still clogging up

[lethal condor]

Just sink the waste water into wet concrete

Problem solved

[glossy yew]

Or more diluted fuel?

[vast jungle]

then you have trouble with your ratios...

see here for more tips https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Alumina_Solution#Gallery

[lethal condor]

Or just feed it into a separate machine making aluminum scrap

Anything but recycling it back into the same machines

[old tree]

I'm using this setup and I've clocked 2 out of the 3 sloppy alumina refineries to use exactly the amount of water that the electrode scrap is outputting

the 3rd refinery runs on fresh water

does the simulation in remote places possibly shit the bed when the player is not around?

[vast jungle]

feeding back into the same machine can be an issue... I think the wiki solution uses a "ring" of two groups of machines feeding into each other

[lethal condor]

No

The issue is that the system requires a delicate balance and precise timing. If ANYTHING goes wrong, it backs up.

Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens 15 hours later.

The best solution imo is to just not mix the systems.

[fervent iris]

Am I correct in thinking it's possible to feedback the compact coal from rocket fuel production into making more turbofuel efficiently?

[old tree]

That's what I'm doing

[fervent iris]

such that you get around 20% boost to your turbofuel, and can in turn make more rocket fuel?

or does the feedback loop eat itself?

[glossy yew]

How well would train water reuse go.

One train takes normal water and ships it into aluminum production, and then theres a train that takes out water that refinement gives out and the train can have two stations it will take the water to, back to aluminum or somewhere else if that is easy? Idk how well the trains are here.

[lethal condor]

Why would you use trains for this?

[fervent iris]

It is brain-achingly complex to think about the third loop of re-using the resource produced by a feedback loop into itself... but it MIGHT work?

[glossy yew]

I use trains for everything

[fervent iris]

(just do water-intense things near water eh)

[old tree]

Four of these are feeding water to...

[glossy yew]

Is it that bad of an idea?

[old tree]

...two of these. No fresh water involved.

[glossy yew]

Random thought I just had, but.
If slooping, could you make more water than you put in out of bauxite refinement?

[lethal condor]

Yes

That's what sloops do.

[old tree]

not using any here though

[glossy yew]

So I can remove water from my alumina refinement by having 1:1 ratio of water use and production?

At the cost of a limited resource...

[lethal condor]

And 4x the power consumption sure

[glossy yew]

I may do it for the funny

Power isnt a real issue now that I have 3xNuclear(250%)

It aint 160GW from 1200 oil a minute but it is power.

[lethal condor]

Yeah I just don't like having byproduct stall a production if I can help it

Adding extra points of failure in a logistics chain just adds more chances for something to go wronog

[glossy yew]

No stall in a 1 to 1 ratio... but I have to add initial water to have it start to begin with.

That may be an issue...

[lethal condor]

Yeah and if it does stall

You have to manually restart it

https://tenor.com/view/no-time-busy-aint-nobody-got-time-for-that-gif-15753141

[old tree]

This sci-fi scenario gave us a space elevator, cargo drones and quantum tech but no simple drain. Instead it has to be elaborate sinking workarounds 👌

[glossy yew]

Me when I cant sink uranium waste -

[lethal condor]

They gave us the almighty toilet

[glossy yew]

Manual

[fervent iris]

the SW oil coast can be fully manipulated into over 6200 rocket fuel apparently. Over 600 fully OC fuel gens. Exciting.

[glossy yew]

How many GW

[fervent iris]

450

[glossy yew]

Damn

[fervent iris]

from 2700 raw oil

zero SAM

only 1600ish sulfur

[glossy yew]

I want mk3 pipes so bad, adding too many pipes feels dirty to me.

[fervent iris]

I was just saying that

M3 pipes make so much sense now

600 is a massive constraint and pipes are way harder to stack than conveyors

[glossy yew]

1.1 when

[lethal condor]

It's not always bad

[glossy yew]

Factorio vibes but pipes instead of belts

[fervent iris]

so clean

[glossy yew]

Dis my Oil to ThatPurpleOilThingLiquid setup, only got 600(1 full pipe) ready for now

Once I get home I will be adding another 600 and shipping it out by train, then, some petroleum coal for my electrode alumina

[torpid gorge]

any way to calculate how much fuel my drones are gonna use for a roundtrip?

or rather just how much per minute i need

[frozen harbor]

The game tells you their fuel usage rates once they've made a trip (but other than that idk if there's a specific formula)

[prisma kraken]

i'm still looking for a table, from what it was in U8, 4 battery base consumption per trip and then 1 battery per km traveled iirc. how that maps to other fuel types, i'm not sure

[torpid gorge]

yeah not sure, my trips like 1.5km and using rocket fuel its ~3.1 per minute

so ig thats about correct

[prisma kraken]

well, the takeof and land animation is about 30 seconds per, and the drone should be flying with rf at 37m/s

that should be an rtt of about 100 seconds

so if it is the same as batteries in terms of consumption, that would be 3+4 batteries/trip or 7/100s

7/100*60 = 4.2/min

not far off but not very close either

[fast juniper]

is this a good design to transport one pipe to multiple generators?

[fringe seal]

I don't see anything wrong

[fast juniper]

hold on let me get a clearer picture

[fringe seal]

though I don't completely understand the fluid dynamics in SF

[fast juniper]

this one sucks

[fringe seal]

how much are the fuel gens consuming?

[short comet]

depends on what you feed them

[fast juniper]

fuel

[pastel obsidian]

Looks like fuel may be OC

[prisma kraken]

it looks fine, but you should keep in mind that the more generators you put on a pipe, the wonkier the flow will get, so i like to keep my fuel manifolds pretty small

[short comet]

make a blueprint with the generator turned off

connect them to fuel and power and they will fill up if everything is filled up there will never be a problem if u did everything right

you have to turn them on one by one manually

[patent lily]

what are the tradeoffs between the turbo electric and pressure motor alts?

[prisma kraken]

the wiki used to have some analysis and from what it said, pressure uses a lot less resources. I always questioned its analysis though

[torpid gorge]

i loove turbo electric

[patent lily]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/s/sCdMq7fTio

this one ranks pressure above electric, if thats anything to by

[old tree]

you can make turbo electric without the need to tap into nitrogen gas

[fringe pawn]

But because you're setting up fused frames, cooling systems, and turbo motors around the same time, I've never found nitrogen to be a difficult requirement. With slooping, turbo pressure in particular maximizes motors per RCU via slooping conversion cubes.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah, but it’s also a stupid list, @patent lily

[torpid gorge]

nah its pretty objective, its just a subjective thing in the first place imo

its not always the biggest efficiency is what u wanna pick

[prisma kraken]

here's a side-by-side of the tm recipes where i kind of drilled down a little:

[vapid gorge]

Lists like these are very bad to go by because alt recipes don’t exist on a vacuum

It doesn’t know which of the resources are simpler for you to get or use

And it doesn’t take into account every other recipe along the process line

[torpid gorge]

yeah exactly its a case by case scenario but in a vacuum they show whats most efficient

[patent lily]

what are you slooping? just conversion cubes?

[torpid gorge]

if you ignore pain in the ass logistics, this is a pretty solid thing to go off

[fringe pawn]

Also the turbo motors themselves.

[torpid gorge]

like me personally i just use turbo electric and dont even think abt it because its so simple, but if you cared aobut it you might pick the pressure one

[vapid gorge]

Logistics are 90% of the game and work

And location and logistics + every other recipe you use makes other resources have different values in dif situations

[patent lily]

Trains my beloved

[torpid gorge]

at the point of lategame - endgame i personally just dont care and conveyor every resource i need

but in early game yes picking the most fitting recipe is my biggest focus

[quiet breach]

is there a trick to belting a mk3 miner on pure node?

[fringe pawn]

Logistics are why I don't trust "objective" alternate recipe lists like the one just linked, because they generally don't take into account things like map layout.

[patent lily]

what tool gives you this?

[quiet breach]

1200 is tempting

[vapid gorge]

That’s not a counter to ‘ the lists are pointless and make people think some recipes are better’

[prisma kraken]

it is sp.runesun.com

[torpid gorge]

you can only exploit it at phase 4

[quiet breach]

sweet thanks

i feel like its easting not using to max

[torpid gorge]

i mean im telling you explicitly that these lists show whats objectively best if you have the means and dont care about logistics (like me at a certain point)

like i said theres definitely plenty of people who wouldnt care about that at all and just pick whats most fitting but it has its uses, so "pointless"

[vapid gorge]

Except it also doesn’t take into account how people value different resources

Even if you go ‘of you don’t care about logistics’

In a game about logistics

[prisma kraken]

the thing you really care about with turbomotors is nitrogen & aluminum

[vapid gorge]

‘Some people don’t care’ is also not an argument

[torpid gorge]

how is this not an argument? youre the one fallaciously saying "in a game about logistics" as if limiting yourself to nearby resources is the only logistic in the game

[patent lily]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=BgQi6GzEiJJA2BMaL4cO

[old tree]

I'm making supercomputers and turbomotors but no fused modular frames, let alone pressure cubes yet. Turbo electric allowed me to do that but cubes are next.

[torpid gorge]

i feel like youre just tryna disagree for the sake of disagreeing lol, ive literally given explanations of why these lists can (and explicitly not always) be useful

[quiet breach]

holy cow

[patent lily]

yeah

[quiet breach]

I just worked backwards and made individual tabs

id never be able to follow that whole map

[patent lily]

i already rebuilt the phase 2 factory so that I have everything for the next phases

[latent owl]

Anyone understand train logic I can't figure out how to have my train choose which path to take?

[prisma kraken]

how i do things is i work backward from what resource nodes i wish to use

[patent lily]

i did unlock everything up to tier 8 with semi automation but now i want a full factory

[prisma kraken]

they always take the shortest computed path

[patent lily]

you place block signals facing in the direction you want them to take

so if you want right hand traffic remove the inner signals

like this, remember the signals have arrows when you put them on the track

[latent owl]

@patent lily thanks that is working, altough I was hoping to figure out path signals so it could go left or right

[patent lily]

you don't need path signals in that case

just make sure the trains are shorter than the blocks

[latent owl]

need no but want to because it would be cooler and to learn the signals yes

[quiet breach]

i believe what you're asking is the train will take the path to get to the station so if you had a station on that other path, then it would go left or right

so say straight (left) is back to "main base" then the green (right) path would turn off somewhere else

if ytou select that station it would go that way, pending the order you set

[latent owl]

I'm looking for the trains to reserve either the left or right path and the other train to choose the other path because one is reserved

[quiet breach]

if you're using multiple you can with path signals but I believe benji explained the arrows to pick which side?? cant have them just randomly pick etc, gotta map out with path and blocks

if i understand correctly

im more worried why the game is playing some foresty christmas music while im in a cave

[sturdy solar]

with enough somersloops (about 6), 30 leaves / minute gets you 1 GW of power when converted to packaged liquid biofuel. right?
30 leaves = 30 biomass = 30 solid biofuel = 40 liquid biofuel = 80 packaged biofuel = 1000 MW

[tranquil oasis]

why is my train going left? isn't the shorter route straight?

[prisma kraken]

i'd be interested to see the math on that for critter bits-> biomass, lol

[sturdy solar]

1 hog hide = 200 leaves

[pastel obsidian]

1 hog = 800 fuel i think

[prisma kraken]

stations are treated as extra distance to pass through, i forget what the weighting is

[pastel obsidian]

where is the train going?

if you want to force it to the right path a path at the intersection and block on the right

[quiet breach]

wait so the arrows dont mean anything?

[pastel obsidian]

the arrows are just for you

[quiet breach]

wow... this entire time

[pastel obsidian]

trains DGAF about arrows

[fringe seal]

I just ran the Tool, using the entire continent's resource to make...... ~21 Ballistic Warp Drive/min
....alright, it gets crazy at the end

[quiet breach]

haha wellllll shoot just proved my stupidy even more

[pastel obsidian]

I blame the game

[quiet breach]

every arrow means something in the game except these

[tranquil oasis]

?

[short comet]

if you ride a train with autopilot you will see that the signs change shortly before the train passes if they dont show the direction the train wants to go :D

[quiet breach]

also when dealing with signs.. I wish they would label which color is what... make it a lot easier

[tranquil oasis]

could you rephrase what you said

[quiet breach]

i will pay attention next time, havent even noticed too busy feeling like im at disneyland

[tranquil oasis]

@pastel obsidian

[pastel obsidian]

i can

if you have an intersection with a path signal

[fringe seal]

it does change at the moment the train passes the junction if it is in autodrive mode fwiw

[pastel obsidian]

the train will only path to a block signl

let me make an example

[tranquil oasis]

where do I add the block signal

[pastel obsidian]

wherever you want the train to go