math-and-meta

[median void]

Question, are crash logs stored at
C:\Users\(username)\AppData\Local\FactoryGame\Saved\Crashes\(extra folder here)?
I'm trying to report a bug and found a log file at this directory, but it's 1.606KB large

[ashen girder]

Why not leached?

[proper laurel]

because I don't have that alternate unlocked to do that math 😅

[ashen girder]

Oh, well. Also Basic.

Basic would require an offensive amount of limestone though.

Basic and Leached are both 2:1 Ingot to Ore.

Compared to Pure's 1.86:1.

[edgy leaf]

no no, the other side where i havent added the pump at the train station

[ashen girder]

Oooh, okay.

[proper laurel]

omg

[ashen girder]

Hell, even Iron Alloy is better at 1.875:1.

[thorn bane]

yes
but you should get used to using https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=2BB28SAvJwQ8VQE9jhA2
it makes this sort of math easy

[median void]

Bump. I had a crash today and wanna copy the log into my bug report, if anyone can answer this it'd be very appreciated.
I also had a graphical corruption afterwards, and yes, I did verify game file integrity and the corruption persisted

[ashen girder]

Would suggest posting to #1038092680493801533, they're better for that kind of thing.

[median void]

Okay, will do!

[ashen girder]

We like making number soup here.

[hardy wyvern]

Question, if i would like to create a round platform that will host on top of it x number of blender (for example) how do i calculate the diameter of said platform to pin point the main axis ?

[gray rock]

Hey quick question, Can Satisfactory Trains act the same way as Factorio Trains when Train Staions/Stops have the same name?

[ashen girder]

Nope.

[gray rock]

Rip

[ashen girder]

(I don't even know what that means, but pretty sure it's nope.)

[gray rock]

Oh lmao

[proper laurel]

what you can do is put a bunch of stations near each other. Like "Iron Factory; Track 1, Track 2," etc. And then when Track 1 is closed off to load a train it just diverts overflow to Track 2.

That way there's no backup and buildup while Track 1 is closed off

[magic island]

Yeah, unfortunately Satisfactory doesn't support parallel platforms for a single station

[proper laurel]

mod community pls get on that

[cloud tree]

my vertical logistical solution for the sulfur

[ashen girder]

I dunno the actual answer, but here's an absolute lower bound:

[gray rock]

So i need 2 stations to properly use throughput

[ashen girder]

Or.. platforms.

[ashen girder]

You can't do this in Satisfactory. If it can't get to Track 1, it'll just sit and whine at you.

[thorn bane]

sooooooo
whats the actual ratio here?

[edgy leaf]

but satisfactory isnt really a game where that would be necessary as all resources are infinite

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Rocket_Fuel#Calculating_Compacted_Coal_feedback_loops_for_Turbofuel

[proper laurel]

oh I was more referring to where the resources go, not the trains.
You'd need a train going to each platform for that to work.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, just making sure we're clear that trains cannot reroute in Satisfactory. They have their route, and that's it.

waits for correction

[proper laurel]

yeah it annoys me that drones are even more of a stickler to that than trains are. I'd like to have drone ports that are part of more than 1 drone on the same route, but drone ports don't like sharing.

[edgy leaf]

tug, there seemed to be slight throughput issues during unloading. adding an unnecssary pipe seems to have fixed it? ill leave it running a bit longer to check

[edgy leaf]

no correction, trains cant reroute

[ashen girder]

Ah-ha, you found my trap card! They can when you change the signals or rail itself. 😉

[ashen girder]

Was really expecting someone to jump on that like a soldier on a grenade.

[proper laurel]

I have passing tracks specifically for that purpose.

[edgy leaf]

Ah-ha, you found my trap card! That's not the train rerouting itself, that's you rerouting the train!

[ashen girder]

Oh noooo! 🫠

[ashen girder]

Aren't fluids fun. 😂

[proper laurel]

I'm planning my system to be kind of like minor shinkansen stations, where the local trains get off the main line and stop, whereas the express trains pass them.

[edgy leaf]

"Only full pipes are happy pipes"
Well this one is constantly at 1.7 and it seems very very happy

[proper laurel]

simple is best, after all.

[ashen girder]

That's one of those things you tell green leafs so they don't start asking really uncomfortable questions.

[ashen girder]

On the one hand, I want to build a test bed to help with this. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to build an oil factory to eat 600/min. 🤣

[edgy leaf]

new youtube video about to drop:
19 pipe secrets "they" dont want you to know!

[edgy leaf]

i can send you mine in dms if you want to see it

[proper laurel]

"Fluid dynamics HATES them!"

[edgy leaf]

the factory itself seems to work flawlessly so it shouldnt be the problem source

[ashen girder]

Sure, sounds good then.

[edgy leaf]

oh nvm the other side is kiinda draining too? wtf 😭 i guess the unnecessary pipe didnt fully fix it

well, when i had the oil extractor connected directly the machinse never emptied even a tiny bit.

[ashen girder]

You mean the sending side is draining?

[edgy leaf]

wait, i never checked the sending side...

maybe the receiving side works fine now and the issue has moved on to the sending site

[thorn bane]

rocket fuel numbers
thats not using blend
this seems nice though

[ashen girder]

If the platform is emptying, sounds like it.

[amber jacinth]

What I’m getting from this is that I should have built for 7200 and not 7500

[thorn bane]

hahaha yes
well the sulfur/oil numbers seem horrible what ever i try

[ashen girder]

I mean, at least they're integers.

[thorn bane]

yay?

[amber jacinth]

Everything else seems nice, yeah

No rounding issues 😛

[worn heath]

I'm like fresh into tier 6. Starting to see more use of the manufacturer and items like heavy modular frame. Any recommendations on how I should be approaching logistics especially for the manufacturer that's starting to require more complex items and may not be made nearbye?

[edgy leaf]

combining two 300m3/s mk2 pipes into one 600m3/s mk2 pipe seems to be wonky

i had like 580 flow and then i downgraded the pipes that go into the junction and all the previous ones to mk1 and now it just works

[ashen girder]

Yes, yes it is.

I return to Exhibit A.

Literally what I was dealing with. It kept fluttering down around 580.

[edgy leaf]

okay so. i dont understand this. and i dont WANT to understand it. keep that witchcraft away from my eyeballs

[ashen girder]

🤣

[hushed trellis]

i had to give in to spaghetti conveyors this made my head spin more than it should TwT

[ashen girder]

I built it out of raw anger at the fact that the common answer to getting 600 in Mk2 pipes is literally "don't." 🤣

[edgy leaf]

i really want to use the debug tools mods to do some deeper analysis of how fluids behave

[ashen girder]

Straight mode is your friend!

[edgy leaf]

i wonder, can they simulate cycles?

[hushed trellis]

yea but sometimes it's also my enemy

[ashen girder]

Like, graph cycles?

[edgy leaf]

also like, should that go to the mod discord or this one here? the rule about modding seems to indicate that its allowed here

We encourage mods for Satisfactory! Feel free to discuss topics regarding mods. However, asking for modding help, troubleshooting issues with mods, or any other in-depth discussion regarding mods are best handled on the affiliated modding community discord.

[edgy leaf]

machines consuming stuff in cycles

i dont think its as big of a thing as people make it out to be but just to be sure it owuld be nice to simulate that as well

[ashen girder]

Oh, I have no idea what we're talking about. 👀

[edgy leaf]

ur the one that told me about it 😭 the magic boxes mod

[ashen girder]

Oh!

[edgy leaf]

yes !

[ashen girder]

Yeah, it's okay to talk about it here, as long as it isn't, like, super in depth.

[edgy leaf]

yea i interpret it as long as the mod isnt the topic its fine

like, we're talking about pipes. the mod would just be a tool to gather data

[ashen girder]

I don't know if that one can do cycles though, that's interesting.

Yeah, I'd love to get more diagnostic tools for pipes.

Honestly, I should grab some of those mods anyway.

The hard part is how to tell whether or not the tools are causing their own layer of weirdness. 😕

[edgy leaf]

indeed

i think thatd be something to go to the modding discord for to talk to people there about it

[ashen girder]

So, my speculation about why pumps help: I think work pressure works in pulses, and I think those pulses can effectively be constructive or destructive.

I've always found it so interesting, watching a pipe fill up, that it fills up in spurts then drains a little bit.

Even if it's just one pipe, one source, and one pump.

Like, if it were just head lift, it would just.. go up.

[thorn bane]

eulers a bitch

[ashen girder]

I'm not smart enough to catch that reference. 😦

[thorn bane]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_equations_(fluid_dynamics)
its how fluid simulation works

[edgy leaf]

i doubt they do eulers equations in satis

[ashen girder]

I would be fuckin' shocked if they did.

[thorn bane]

pretty sure they do some form of it
otherwise the water hammer etc. stuff wouldnt happen

but probably just reduced to each pipe is a cell and they interact with connecting pipes

[edgy leaf]

im like 90% sure theres no water hammer

[ashen girder]

Yeah, they said it's like water hammer.

[edgy leaf]

isnt the only thing that water hammer does bursting pipes?

[thorn bane]

then why cant you get 600/min

[ashen girder]

Because our pipes can't burst. 🤣

[edgy leaf]

if its water hammer, why do pumps help?

[ashen girder]

And no, water hammer in real life makes pipes shake a lot, too.

[thorn bane]

well its a weird name for it but i mean fluids flowing back
backflow or w.e.

[edgy leaf]

also, i get 600/min all the time

[ashen girder]

Yeah, 600 is only really finnicky when you have two separate inputs.

And even then, only if there's a huge variation in it.

[thorn bane]

sure but there are setups that dont get that
and i dont see how you can explain that without actual fluid dynamics

[edgy leaf]

yea its the result of the waters momentum suddenly being stopped. like driving a truck against a wall. i dont see how that should influence flow rate in satis

[edgy leaf]

sometimes mk1 pumps make it work but mk2 pumps dont

[magic island]

my theory on pumps is: they're hardcoded to be a little extra greedy

because otherwise, if the pump just "allowed" a fluid to flow upwards, the gravity priority would still make the fluid really reluctant to do so until lower paths fill first. so to keep things intuitive, pumps are weighted to be a slightly "preferred" route, outweighing gravity

[thorn bane]

except the truck doesnt start driving backwards

[edgy leaf]

you cant explain that with fluid dynamics

[edgy leaf]

other way around, mk2 pumps work mk1 dont

[ashen girder]

It would if it were an elastic collision. 😛

[ashen girder]

Oh thank god, you made my spine tingle.

[edgy leaf]

sorry, typo 😭

[ashen girder]

That's why I think work pressure's more important than it seems.

Mk2 pumps put out a lot more energy into the fluid than Mk1 pumps.

I bet more than 2.5x as much.

I should time how long it takes to fill a buffer up, and see if Mk2 pumps take the same amount of time or not.

Ah, yeah.. these actually seem a little simpler than I was expecting. If they do this once per pipe segment, I could totally see how it might work fine.

[thorn bane]

honestly we really need to step up our game
meanwhile factorio community is doing this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7aC5kj-I9vldVNEdlZqS3Iwdmc/view?resourcekey=0-ky-J4ptGR7Oib000F1JYrA

[ashen girder]

You got beef with McGalleon's coloring book? 😛

[fallen geyser]

SFTools moment

[ashen girder]

I also lowkey hate the concept of math people stuffing vectors into matrices. Like what's wrong with you people?

[fallen geyser]

Detected a fractional amount of leftover silica and iron due to a decimal error and then fixed that nonexistent leftover material by making .00001 HMF/minute

[ashen girder]

Look, man, checking for EPSILON is hard, okay.

[edgy leaf]

🤤 i love this

cya guys, im switching to factorio goodbye

they have better documented fluid physics and thats all that matters in a game after all

[fallen geyser]

the Latex formatting im gonna cry

[thorn bane]

it does release in 2 weeks

[ashen girder]

We'll miss you!

[fallen geyser]

Meanwhile we're still arguing over whether or not "water hammer" is a thing

[ashen girder]

These equations have a bunch of us and ws.

It's hard not to keep saying "uwu" in my head.

[edgy leaf]

i dont see any of that, i think thats just ur mind seeing what it wants to see

[fallen geyser]

my friend in college called the cursive w's "wubbleyous"

[spare jolt]

just say "uw's"

[edgy leaf]

okay yea i get it now

[ashen girder]

I'm looking at the Euler equations still, not the Factorio diatribe.

[fallen geyser]

taking physics classes is a great excuse to write a bunch of fun letters

cursive lowercase w and mu are always fun

[ashen girder]

I don't even know what some of these things are called.

[fringe pawn]

Did SCIM have a ticket calculator or am I misremembering that? Something that tells you the cumulative amount of points to get N tickets.

[fallen geyser]

μ ω <- so satisfying

[spiral wigeon]

is it worth the effort of setting up a geothermal generator on every geyser?

[ashen girder]

Also the ominous upside down triangle. I know you ain't a delta, creepy thing.

[edgy leaf]

that funky E is just a for loop

[ashen girder]

7.1GW power if you do! On average.

[fallen geyser]

is it not delta (meaning "change from previous state") here?

[ashen girder]

You mean the Sigma? I know that one. I mean the.. weird backwards sixes and the d with a fabulous hat.

[spiral wigeon]

ok

[ashen girder]

Deltas point up don't they?

[fallen geyser]

they do ive been out of college too long

[edgy leaf]

i think at least one of those is a delta

[fringe pawn]

Or if not, does anyone know one?

[ashen girder]

Oh yeah, partial differentials use lowercase deltas, don't they.

[edgy leaf]

idk math

[fallen geyser]

I don't but let me know if you find one. It would need access to your save file or you'd need to know exactly how many tickets you've printed to date tho

[edgy leaf]

i just want my pipes to say 600, very simple. why do i need to learn greek when i already know arabic numerals 🙄

[ashen girder]

Ooooh, the upside down delta (the nabla?) is apparently a vector differential. Weird.

[fallen geyser]

Vector math is the devil

Matrix math is even worse

[edgy leaf]

nooo

[ashen girder]

👆

[edgy leaf]

i love linear algebra! i just recently started working on a neural network with my gf its so fun

[fallen geyser]

NOOOO NOT i j k COMPONENTS GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[fringe pawn]

I'm thinking about putting a golden nut in each of my radar bases. But for all I know that would require more than 10 years of runtime with the literal max points setup.

[edgy leaf]

matrix multiplication and i are best friends

[edgy leaf]

its in the wiki im pretty sure

[ashen girder]

Or, apparently, gradient. That explains why it comes up in the Euler stuff so much.

[thorn bane]

i still pull up my hands like a ninja when ever i need to remember which row and column to multiply

[fringe pawn]

The formula is in the wiki, but I don't have a math background, and translating that information to something useable is well beyond me.

[fallen geyser]

right hand rule ftw

[edgy leaf]

aright ill do it gimme a sec

how many coupons do you want?

[fringe pawn]

Let's say 10,000 and 20,000

[ashen girder]

I was about to call that. 🤣

I was gonna guess 20k.

[fallen geyser]

my favorite physics trivia fact is... okay so you know how you have position, right, and then velocity is the derivative of position (or displacement if you want to get technical) with respect to time

and then acceleration is the derivative of velocity

[ashen girder]

Acceleration, jerk, snap, crackle, pop

[fallen geyser]

yep lol

[ashen girder]

Stupid elfs doing stupid elfy things.

[fallen geyser]

you can tell they got as far as "snap" and then realized there was no practical reason to care about anything past that and had fun with it

[ashen girder]

For, uh, anyone that isn't aware:

They're the mascots of rice krispies.

[fallen geyser]

jerk is relevant for calculating g-forces, and snap is relevant because jerk is relevant, but i can't even think of a scenario where you'd care about crackle or pop

[ashen girder]

I think there's like one super niche case where it came up in a paper, and that's why they named it to begin with.

[fallen geyser]

i love scientists naming things because they can

[ashen girder]

Heck yeah.

[fallen geyser]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox–Zucker_machine

This was a deliberate choice by Cox and Zucker, who, as first-year graduate students at Princeton University in 1970, conceived of the idea of coauthoring a paper for the express purpose of enabling this joke. They followed through on it five years later, as members of the faculty at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.[3] As Cox explained in a memorial tribute to Zucker in Notices of the American Mathematical Society in 2021: "A few weeks after we met, we realized that we had to write a joint paper because the combination of our last names, in the usual alphabetical order, is remarkably obscene."[3]

[ashen girder]

My god. Doing actual science in the name of dick jokes. I'm here for it.

[fallen geyser]

geometric principle based on discoveries by the very same Cox, apparently

[edgy leaf]

holy fuck i hate desmos

[fallen geyser]

girl what'd she do this time

[fringe pawn]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/6a3fj5xl7f

If I'm using this correctly, at 450,000,000 points per minute, it's 684 hours for 10,000 tickets, 5486 hours (228~ days) for 20,000. A little over 2 years for 30,000.

[ashen girder]

Shockingly achievable.

[fringe pawn]

I think the theoretical maximum points per minute is a bit above 500 million per minute, but 450 million per minute is "easy" in that it leaves room for personalization and flexibility.

[ashen girder]

Now do it for DNA. 😄

[prisma kraken]

is the wiki correct with the sink values for items, and is the biochemical sculptor really less value than the ADS from which it is mad?

[ashen girder]

Yes.

[prisma kraken]

oops

[fringe pawn]

4 sculptors are made per ADS, so it makes sense.

[prisma kraken]

ahhh, that makes sense

[ashen girder]

One sculptor should be just over half an ADS.

[fringe pawn]

But ADS remain optimal to sink over sculptors, because the trigons are better used for warp drives, and ADS require no SAM.

[prisma kraken]

its a strange part, gotta say

[mellow meteor]

Question here I have an overclocked smelter on 35pm I want 10 to go into one constructer and the other 25 into the other one. I don't have smart splitters unlocked yet as I heard you can easily do this. How would I go about and do this?

[fringe pawn]

Yeah. Add trigons and water, and the computer subdivides into 4 3D bioprinters.

[prisma kraken]

the amts should overflow after the 10/min's buffer fills with a normal splitter

[ashen girder]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[mellow meteor]

Alright but I went ahead and everything except this part is load balanced, was hoping for a clever way or something. Not needed at all just my stubbornness

[ashen girder]

There's clever ways, they just take a lot more splitters and mergers.

[thorn bane]

i mean you can 1/7 split
but like, why

[prisma kraken]

well, you can do an 8-way split and feed one of the 8 outputs back into the input to get a 7-way split of 5's that can then be merged, but that's kind of painful to build

[mellow meteor]

cause we can! 😂

[mellow meteor]

yikes ye

[ashen girder]

cause we can can-can!

[thorn bane]

ye what moonchild said
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Prime_splitter_arrays

[prisma kraken]

that's really the way you'd have to do it

if you can clock the machines differently to make the split even, i generally would prefer doing that, but just letting stuff overflow to the right spot is probably the way™️

[mellow meteor]

thanks for the quick response

[prisma kraken]

but yeah, you don't want to build a 1:7 splitter, trust me

its not hard to build, it's hard to fit into a build

[mellow meteor]

I'll build towards the Moon @prisma kraken

https://tenor.com/view/mitikah-render-video-torrential-rain-gif-23090945

🤣

[prisma kraken]

building them vertically still takes about1.5 foundation squares of width

[mellow meteor]

How do they make these strange creatures ? O_o

1:7 splitter ^

[ashen girder]

!wikisearch balancer

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=balancer

[ashen girder]

Like that.

[median void]

Dear god how does one maintain this sort of monstrosity

[mild tangle]

i want to Escape bottlenecking now as much as possible. ive built a storage system for almost every item in the game BUT how do i connect this without bottlenecking the system when the trains/drones come in and drop the cargo into the system?

[ashen girder]

Funny thing about this game, there isn't any maintenance to do.

Once it's running, you put walls around it and pretend like it doesn't exist.

[median void]

And if you wanna add more machines to the same production line?

[ashen girder]

You don't.

[median void]

...so in essence, you're screwed and need to tear down what you have?

[mild tangle]

its 20 ports in each row so its 80 ports am i able to split the incoming materials in such a way that it wont bottleneck and unload quick?

[fringe wren]

I'm wondering if this is a good location for a Aluminum Sheet factory? Should be enough space/water?

[edgy leaf]

oof i got distracted by dinner. heres the code i wrote:

fn main() {
    let cum_coupon_price: u32 = (1..=30).map(|coupon_index| coupon_price(coupon_index)).sum();
    dbg!(cum_coupon_price);
}
fn coupon_price(n: u32) -> u32 {
    if n <=3 {
       return 500
    }
    250 * (n.div_ceil(3) - 1).pow(2) + 1000
}

thats 3603232618 points for 20,000 coupons

[viral sorrel]

Hi everyone. I am a bit confused with my reinforced metal plates. I have two assemblers providing 12.5 and 7.5 plates

The 12.5 goes directly to another set of assemblers for teams and half of the 7.5 I have going to them. The frame assemblers say they need 7.5 and 4.5 plates.

My mathing would indicate that the 12.5 plates should keep up, but the frame assemblers are coming up short and I don't know why

[fringe pawn]

Biiiiiiiilions

[edgy leaf]

many tickets!

[leaden cosmos]

so you have a mini-manifold, and I assume the input buffer on the machines have yet to fill?

[thorn bane]

hm formula is giving me something else but i kinda have low faith in my math

[thorn bane]

from the wiki:
"It takes 1,895 Coupons to purchase every non-producible item in the AWESOME Shop, which would require 125,721,388,500 AWESOME points. "
that seems off

[edgy leaf]

hm

[ashen girder]

What part seems off?

[edgy leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

[thorn bane]

1 of them, no idea which xd

[edgy leaf]

yes

when i enter 1895 coupons into my coupon calculator it says 2,732,098,106

hm

oh maybe im getting integer overflow lmfao

yea.. 4294967295 is NOT enough

[warm ferry]

How do i make this work?

[ashen girder]

I'm getting 2,317,705,024

[edgy leaf]

no, 4294967295 is hte maximum number that a 32 bit integer can take

[thorn bane]

hahahha

[edgy leaf]

after that it rolls back over to 0

[ashen girder]

I'm not using 32-bit integers. 😛

[thorn bane]

just get -1 sink points

[viral sorrel]

I don't know what a mini manifold is, but yes the buffers aren't full

[leaden cosmos]

basically if you want instant startup of machines it needs to be load balanced, if your ok with some machines not running right until the buffers fill, its a manifold

[edgy leaf]

the max of unsigned 64 bit integers is 18446744073709551615 which is more than 125721388500 but i still dont get that number

[nimble sage]

what do coupons do

[viral sorrel]

Hmm, the problem though is that they can't fill. They are using more than is being provided which doesn't make sense because 12.5 is more than the 7.5 and 4.5 needed

[amber jacinth]

Exactly like you put in #screenshots - 6 at 100% and one at 55.3%

[warm ferry]

yeah DAMN and then Manifold method?

DAMN thats crazy*

[edgy leaf]

numbers from the wiki

[amber jacinth]

Would be easiest

[edgy leaf]

my numbers:

[amber jacinth]

Load balancing that would be a pain, don’t even try 😛

[fringe pawn]

I should get to group 333 on DNA capsules, so I know I've got a nut just from killing things.

[edgy leaf]

but when i do 1895 i get 62,861,640,250 instead of 125,721,388,500

[serene yacht]

Hi all, sorry to derail the convo but I was hoping for some help with what I think is a maths related problem - can I post some screen shots and get some advice?

[edgy leaf]

am i wrong or is the wiki wrong O.o

[deft lichen]

sure, or use #1038092680493801533

[serene yacht]

i think its super simple so i was hoping someone could point out where im being stupid

[edgy leaf]

just post the screenshots and ask the question then

[serene yacht]

On the last step of this production of Turbofuel, the calculator says I need 12 (11.84) refineries, but recipe making 22.5m3 turbofuel doesnt add up the output it says i'll get

[ashen girder]

Yeah.. wiki is wrong. 🤣

62,861,641,750 is the exact number.

[edgy leaf]

yay

[edgy leaf]

it consumes 22.5 fuel but makes 18.75 turbofuel. 11.84 times 18.75 is indeed 222

[ashen girder]

  let n = 1895;

  function cost(n) {
    return 250 * (Math.ceil(n / 3) - 1) ** 2 + 1000
  }

  Array(n).fill(0)
    .map((_, i) => i + 1)
    .reduce((acc, val) => acc + cost(val), 0)

Bruteforced that shit. 😂

[edgy leaf]

bragging with ur pretty code...

fn main() {
    let cum_coupon_price: u64 = (1..=1895)
        .map(|coupon_index| coupon_price(coupon_index))
        .sum();
    let coupon_amounts: Vec<u64> = vec![3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 90, 999];
    let results: Vec<u64> = coupon_amounts
        .iter()
        .map(|coupon_amount| {
            (1..=*coupon_amount)
                .map(|coupon_index| coupon_price(coupon_index))
                .sum()
        })
        .collect();
    dbg!(cum_coupon_price);
}
fn coupon_price(n: u64) -> u64 {
    if n <= 3 {
        return 500;
    }
    250 * (n.div_ceil(3) - 1).pow(2) + 1000
}

[thorn bane]

ye im getting 74 trillion

[magic island]

find a machine that's starved of a part it needs, trace the conveyors back to the machines making that part, see if they're not operating at 100%, repeat until you find the source of the problem

[thorn bane]

long long cost(int n)
{
    if (n <= 3) return 500;
    long long value = (long long)(std::pow((std::ceil((float)n/3.0)) - 1,2.0));
    value *= 250;
    value += 1000;
    return value;
}

int main()
{
    long long accu=0;
    for(int i=1;i<20000;i++)
    {
        accu += cost(i);
        std::cout << i << ": " << cost(i) << std::endl << accu << std::endl;
    }

    return 0;
}

[edgy leaf]

u can add syntax highlithging by adding the language name after of the ```

[verbal lake]

cursed coding languages 😆

[thorn bane]

oh cool

[edgy leaf]

yalls code is so much cleaner than mine smh i need to up my game

[ashen girder]

For 20,000: 74,057,429,351,750

[viral sorrel]

But that is the issue, the one is making 12.5 plates with no problem before it, but the 7.5 and 4.5 needed for the frames are diminishing. It makes absolutely no sense

[serene yacht]

thanks, i dont know how i got myself confused there

[edgy leaf]

yep i get the same number

[thorn bane]

well im getting 74057429350250
but ill call "good enough"

[ashen girder]

74057429350250

[thorn bane]

eeyyyyyy

[edgy leaf]

did yall add the first three coupons being 500 flat?

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I didn't realize the first 3 were 500 each. That seems wrong though?

[edgy leaf]

fn main() {
    let cum_coupon_price: u64 = (1..=20000)
        .map(coupon_price)
        .sum();
    dbg!(cum_coupon_price);
}
fn coupon_price(n: u64) -> u64 {
    if n <= 3 {
        return 500;
    }
    250 * (n.div_ceil(3) - 1).pow(2) + 1000
}
``` btw this is my code for just calculating individual coupons. the mess was just because i sloopily did it over a vector

(trying to restore my honor because the previous code was so horrible)

[thorn bane]

yall with your fancy maps

[magic island]

what do you mean by diminishing?

7.5 and 4.5 make 12. Are they making less in total than that? If so, trace back to see what they're not getting enough of.

[ashen girder]

I'm using a reducer 💪

[edgy leaf]

is reduce just map and sum combined?

[thorn bane]

im using an accumulator
like in the good old days

[ashen girder]

No, map and sum are just specific instances of reduce.

[edgy leaf]

oooh i remember. i used reduce for some of the NN code i think

praised be rayon for easy multithreading

[ashen girder]

Ah, sure enough, 500 points for the first coupon.

[quiet breach]

About to dive into aluminum and all that phase 4 tier 7/8 stuff. Any words of advice other than dump recycled water into a new system not loop it back in?

[ashen girder]

Be bold, be brave! Loop it!

[quiet breach]

😂ok I’ll loop just for you.

[ashen girder]

....what have I done..

[quiet breach]

I think i might just go huge on the sheets and containers to stash some and then send some to what else need them. Haven’t laid out much yet

[thorn bane]

soooo
114 days at max sink points?

[edgy leaf]

you have murdered an innocent person

[viral sorrel]

Right, 12 total needed, and the assembler says it is producing 12.5, but even if I manually load up the assembler, it is not being filled fast enough

[ashen girder]

Me, when they come back because they're having issues?

[thorn bane]

ye seperate fresh and recycled

[edgy leaf]

probably

wtf. i tab back into satisfactory and suddenly im standing on one of the freight cars of my train

i mustve been standing on the rails and it somehow picked me up???

[thorn bane]

im getting exactly half of that

[thorn bane]

385 days for 30k
2743 hours for 20k
342 hours for 10k
#math-and-meta message

[edgy leaf]

yep same

i get 342.781613454 hours for 10k

[quiet breach]

It can’t be any worse than trains 😅

[fringe pawn]

If I just perpetually leave the game running on a spare laptop, maybe the thing to do would be to put a golden nut next to each warp drive builder.

[edgy leaf]

trains are very very predictable

fluid isnt. fluid is magic. trains are math.

[quiet breach]

True

Fluids do suck

[edgy leaf]

i wish machines could suck, that would probably make fluids simpler

[amber jacinth]

“Machines that suck” sounds like a terrible mod name if you don’t know what it actually means

[thorn bane]

oh trains make fluid recycling REALLY simple since they are actually a perfect priority merger
they are just really REALLY slow
#math-and-meta message

[edgy leaf]

"sucking machines"

@ashen girder do u think the direction that fluid is moving might matter?

[ashen girder]

Absolutely yes.

[quiet breach]

Oh interesting didn’t think about that! Can just haul that away somewhere else

What’s the “max” a freight holds in a liquid?

[thorn bane]

actually no idea

[edgy leaf]

wdym?

[quiet breach]

I’ve hardly used trains in general and obviously never transported liquid

But is there a max a train can transport of a liquid? Like i know pipes are limited so i guess only 1200?

[thorn bane]

wiki is saying 1600/min
and output is probably 600/min

[edgy leaf]

max output is 1200/min, a train can hold 1600

finally got my fluid unloading running

nvm. the second i tab out and bakc in to look at it again after telling people it works it drops below 600...

i have no clue what else i could do to make this system more robust

this game hates me

[thorn bane]

i swear pipes sense when youre relaxing

[wraith aspen]

is it this easy? is it really just a bunch of water pumps, 25 refs and 40 blenders????

[edgy leaf]

i checked it like 20 times over 10 minutes and it never dropped below 600. i go here to tell yall it works and BOOM, it stops working

[edgy leaf]

yep

[wraith aspen]

common blender W

[ashen girder]

I'm able to actually dig into it now if you want to send a more up-to-date save.

[wraith aspen]

ive measured out things like 15 refs = 600 fluid only for the 4 refs in the back of the line to be permanantly backed up and the output bouncing between 400-600
annoying asf

[edgy leaf]

i found some other issues, ill tell u when i got the problem pinned down

[onyx breach]

someone have a setup for nuclear power and recycling waste to plutonium with perfect ratio?

[edgy leaf]

what does perfect ratio mean?

[onyx breach]

no byproduct and no overflow

[edgy leaf]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=B5ERSjtW4vSWvdmuXGpk

[ashen girder]

So, how can I tell if it's working or not?

[edgy leaf]

a refinery backed up with HOR once so now im kinda redoing most of the pipework in the factory, i wouldnt recommend u try to troubleshoot it rn

[ashen girder]

Ah, fair enough.

I really like your lil station huts.

[edgy leaf]

he thing i built around the train station?

[ashen girder]

Yeah.

Also, this is how I rejiggered it. Try it like this when you get back to where you can.

Or, like.. similar. 😂

[edgy leaf]

i would be done redoing all my pipes already if you could select the custom swatch as active swatch 😩

[ashen girder]

Ooh, is it #5 that's being a problem child?

[edgy leaf]

i think so?

im not sure, i just saw excess HOR and went straight to tearing down pipes

[ashen girder]

Ah, fair.

Well, if it's any consolation, the two buffer+two pump thing there is staying at 600 when the other one keeps dipping to 580-595.

Also.. even the troublemaker's up to 98% and slowly emptying out.

[edgy leaf]

epic

[edgy leaf]

hm, maybe it was some sloshing in the system from not enough oil for a while that caused it?

[ashen girder]

That, and after looking at later ones, I realized that the plastic is starving of rubber, for instance.

So, like, it isn't totally primed yet it seems like.

[edgy leaf]

ah that would explain everything, the rubber plastic loop kinda emptied out and has to reboot

[ashen girder]

And yeah, the one I didn't touch just plummted to 540 for a second.

It really doesn't like the transitions when the train station unlocks/locks.

Since it drains the pumped pipe and instead starts pulling out of the buffer.

[edgy leaf]

ive built like 50 variations, can u send a scrweenshot of the one that dropped?

[ashen girder]

This one keeps falling.

[edgy leaf]

ah yes, that one

[ashen girder]

I think fluids just.. sort of naturally slosh. I've been watching the platform numbers, and mine keeps swinging from like 580 to 630. 😂

And even with the two pumps on it, it keeps switching back and forth between the two buffers. It's just able to do so seamlessly because the whole thing's at pressure.

Also, for space, you could probably get away with putting the two buffers underneath.

[edgy leaf]

id have to lower the bottom floor :/

[ashen girder]

Or put a framework floor by the platform instead of a roof. 😉

Yeah, all the oil -> HOR refineries on my side are at 100% (one still backing up 25 or so units, one backing up around 3 units), and 2 on the other side are in the 85% range.

[edgy leaf]

nice

accidentally placed a pump backwards lmao

took me a minute to figure out

[ashen girder]

At least that one gets real obvious real quick.

[fierce ruin]

How do I optimize trains?

Im building from my player head to the tallest mountain

[edgy leaf]

you need to know the stack size of the item you want to transport and your max available belt speed

[fierce ruin]

100 stack size

1200

whats the math for it

[edgy leaf]

the X axis is time between train arrivals, the Y axis is how many items you can transport

[fierce ruin]

huh can u send me that

[edgy leaf]

desmos.com/calculator/djzytmsw4h
heres the desmos link

desmos is a graphing calculator, its not on the whitelist so i have to send it like this

[wind spade]

is desmos blacklisted? (or rather not whitelisted?)

[edgy leaf]

last few times i tried it it wasnt whitelisted

[fierce ruin]

whats "r"

[wind spade]

can you try for me now? if it still isn't whitelisted, I'll raise a ticket

[edgy leaf]

r is reload time of the train, it never changes so you can ignore it. i just added it so i could play around with it to see what would happen if they chose a different time

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/djzytmsw4h

oh, it works! yay

[spare jolt]

It hides the embed tho

[wind spade]

or bot is not alive 😄

no that was hidden ba laura

[spare jolt]

Ah

[wind spade]

just for my sanity, can you post some weird non-whitelisted link? 😄

[fierce ruin]

So how does it work exactly

[wind spade]

because it has been that a few times bot just randomly died

[fierce ruin]

"the X axis is time between train arrivals, the Y axis is how many items you can transport"

[wind spade]

something like https://www.aouisdhuashdoahs.com 😄

nice thanks

seems like desmos is whitelisted now

(I can't check, blue names pass by whitelist)

[edgy leaf]

i often just do y = howmanyitemsiwanttotransport to figure out what range my train arrivel interval can be in

like, lets say u want to transport 500 items per minute, you do y = 500

the area where the flat line is below the curve is the train arrival interval time where your throughput will be sufficient

u can click on the intersections. in this case, as long as the train doesnt arrive more often than ever 34.20632 seconds and not less often than 384 seconds, your throughput will be above 500

[fierce ruin]

Ok so im doing 1200 items per minute

whats the x axis for

[edgy leaf]

the x axis is how often a train arrives at the train station

[fierce ruin]

how do i calculate that?

[edgy leaf]

you have to measure it

[fierce ruin]

oh do i connect the lines and it tells me?

[edgy leaf]

yes basically

u can click on where the lines cross

heres an example of wanting ot transport 850 items with a stack size of 500 per minute with mk4 belts

paradoxically, if your train arrives more often than every 236 seconds, you will not be able to transport 850 items per minute

the train has to arrive less often than every 236.33455 seconds, otherwise you will not be able to transport the desired amount of items per minute

[edgy leaf]

you'd think train more often == faster, but train stations are unable to input or output items while a train reloads

[fierce ruin]

okay so "r" is reload time

"s" is stack size of the item

"c" is???

[lethal stratus]

maximum belt speed right?

[edgy leaf]

belt speed

[lethal stratus]

so where does the length of the train come in on this? is this per box car?

[edgy leaf]

per car, yes

[lethal stratus]

oooh ok

[edgy leaf]

the length of a train doesnt make a difference

[lethal stratus]

It doesn't? I thought if you double the length of the train for the same time, you get double the throughput

[edgy leaf]

i mean, yes

but it doesnt change the math

[lethal stratus]

ok that makes sense

[edgy leaf]

having twice the amount of freight cars just gives you twice the throughput

[edgy leaf]

im going mad my factory isnt working anymore

[plucky violet]

SO, im new to games of this sort, and i been trying to make a somewhat efficient factory but i dont completely know what being fully efficient really means.
I made a VERY simple calculator so far to calculate the costs of items for things i want to make.
My goal here being using as little buildings as needed, so calculating each use of rods in each item for instance, and adding that to get the amount of each item i need.
The issue: ...some things need wild fractions like 1122/3030 and idk if its a good idea. Splitting something by 3030 to only merge them back

[prisma kraken]

no, you're just trying to get clever with pipes. they hate that.

[wind spade]

you never need to balance, you can just use a manifold

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[brisk lotus]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production !!!!!!

[fringe pawn]

The consequences of irrational numbers are usually as mundane as the last machine in a manifold doesn't have 100% efficiency, and splits some amount of time between idle and active.

[wind spade]

that doesn't really create efficient factories tbh

[brisk lotus]

helps you get the ground work done

helped me at least!

[wind spade]

I mean that it can't calculate loops, doesn't reuse byproducts and doesn't optimise your production 🤷

[fringe pawn]

Other tools exist in the pins in this channel

[plucky violet]

I heard of manifolds but will that work for being as efficient here?
At this point im lost in the world of efficiency xD
I should get fired as a FICSIT employee, earths doomed

[edgy leaf]

how am i trying to get clever

im trying to keep it as simple as possible

[wind spade]

after they fill up, they'll work the same as any balancer would

[edgy leaf]

the pipes that are causing me issues have 400 HOR running through them

[brisk lotus]

manifolds are the way I do everything now, I used to use balancers but they just take up too much space imo

[fringe pawn]

Efficient is never defined. Finishing project assembly in as few hours of play time as possible?

[edgy leaf]

manifolds are just as efficeint as balancers

[plucky violet]

I may have mis-interpreted this, does it say the game can be beat within a few hours?
Beat meaning completeing the elevator ig

[spare jolt]

After manifold fully fills closer machines, further ones will start to get more parts because machines always consume exactly as much as they say

[spiral wigeon]

Are trains worth setting up or should I wait for drones? I use hyper tube cannons for transport currently

[spare jolt]

Drones only have 9 stack capacity. Each train car has about 32. Take your pick

[plucky violet]

about that, i tried making a manifold for a coal generator and something went odd.
I have 2 normal nodes worth of coal, so thats around 120/min.
That with 3 water extractors should handle 8 coal generators i believed.
But strangely, the last 2 coal generators barely have coal in them, i expected the last one to not use 1 at a time, but its odd the second to last also doesnt fill up like the others right?
Oh and the water? They all filled compltely!

[spiral wigeon]

Also i keep hearing that trains are useful but so far I’ve just built massive factories for complex parts

[brisk lotus]

How do I stop bottlenecking of water with coal generators? I seem to only be able to have 5 water extractors running for a set of 13 coal generators but I've seen people with more on one system

[wind spade]

they may have changed clock speed on them

[spare jolt]

Trains are usually used to deliver massive amounts resources or parts from afar, but not on the factory itself. Unless your factory is half the map size lol.

Drones are useful when you have just a little but very far, like smokeless powder, or motors, or heavy modular frames, etc

[brisk lotus]

as far as I can tell its the fact I only have 600l/m2 in my pipes

[plucky violet]

is overclocking not worth it? It seems we can only make the stuff from those slugs that are finite right?

[wind spade]

5 extractors make 600, 13 gens need 585, so you'll have excess no matter what

[wind spade]

slugs are infinite and shards as well

[spiral wigeon]

So are trains much less useful because of the dimensional depot

[plucky violet]

3 water gens : 8 coal plants
Well, thats what the math says for me anyways
but mine still backs up with water somehow

[fringe pawn]

Where did you build, what's your start location?

[spare jolt]

It's worth it, but power shards are not finite. Progress the game and you'll see what I mean :P

[spiral wigeon]

I’ve built pretty much all over the map except the swamp and the top right biome

[spare jolt]

Uhhhh, what? DD can only be used by Pioneer, not by buildings

[wind spade]

and that's all that you need it for

[plucky violet]

I hope later ingame the answer isnt lizard dog item grinding xD

[spiral wigeon]

Ig I don’t really understand what you meant

[brisk lotus]

is there a way for me to get more water out of these extractors? I have 3 pure coal nodes running 39 coal generators with 15 extractors, but when I add more they dont have enough water to generate any power.

[wind spade]

you can overclock them but usually the answer to "need more" is "build more" 🙂

[brisk lotus]

wont the pipes bottleneck me to only 600l/m?

[wind spade]

use more pipes

[plucky violet]

Oooh wait

[wind spade]

(also it's m3/min, not liters/min)

[plucky violet]

are your pipes hitting the flow rate limit?
Might need to divide out your pipes

they only handle around 300ml or something right?

[brisk lotus]

ill show the setup hold up

[spare jolt]

You asked if trains are much less useful because of Dimensional Depot (DD). I say no, because DD can only be used by Pioneer, and trains are still necessary to deliver massive quantities of resources (like Plastics or Rubber) from far locations to the main factory or between two different factories

[wind spade]

how did we get to ml lol

that's 1/1000000th of m3

[ashen girder]

Maybe they meant ML?

[plucky violet]

i forgot what the fluid speed measurement was! xD

[spiral wigeon]

Oh, I guess that is more practical than my oil lines that run half way across the map

[spare jolt]

300 ml is your regular-ish coffee mug xD

[plucky violet]

how is ml and ML different

[wind spade]

you build at the location where you have the oil, you don't deliver it anywhere (and definitely not halfway across the map)

[ashen girder]

One is a typo, one is a MegaLiter.

[brisk lotus]

MEGALITERS

[plucky violet]

i might coin it as a Ficsit Gallon

[wind spade]

ml = mililiters, ML = megasomething (not sure if there's a capital L unit)

[ashen girder]

Oh, I thought liters were L.

[wind spade]

at least here liters are always lowercase

[thorn bane]

lumen

[plucky violet]

i dont like this, like at ALL XD

[wind spade]

would be my guess but wasn't sure

[plucky violet]

thats like saying lol = laught out loud, HOWEVER LOL is instead Lots of love

[ashen girder]

Very clarifying, wikipedia. 😂

[thorn bane]

wait no im wrong

[ashen girder]

lm is lumen, isn't it?

[thorn bane]

ye

[ashen girder]

There are two international standard symbols for the litre: L and l. In the United States the former is preferred because of the risk that (in some fonts) the letter l and the digit 1 may be confused.[8]

[brisk lotus]

This is the setup, on the right I have 15 extractors feeding into 3 different buffers for each section of 13 generators. It doesn't seem I can fuel any more generators because of the water pipes only fitting 600m3/m

[ashen girder]

Apparently it's a US thing. Shocker. 🤣

[wind spade]

ah the classic "america must be different"

[edgy leaf]

pipes can actually carry up to 600000000ml

[wind spade]

even if they use SI units for some weird reason, they must change things in them

[vapid gorge]

should do!

[edgy leaf]

yea didnt really work :/

[vapid gorge]

make sure yo uhave the pump pointing hte right way

[spare jolt]

I think we misunderstood each other - I thought they meant they're gonna be using DD to extract resources for automation. And you thought (I guess) that I meant that trains can be used to deliver to DD for uploading.

[brisk smelt]

yeet the buffers

[plucky violet]

when i first started this game around the first starting location, i was afraid a extractor was going to drain that small lake in the middle

[edgy leaf]

yeet the buffers!

[wind spade]

no, I know you meant to transport by trains between factories, my point was that if you build the factory near nodes, you don't have to transport anything (maybe just some raw resources to the factory, if not all raw resources are nearby)

[brisk lotus]

when I didnt have the buffers, the water manifold I have feeding into the generators werent getting enough water

[vapid gorge]

also don't merge all the pipes and split them again

[wind spade]

buffers won't help with that

[brisk smelt]

well then you don't have enough water

also whats the point of those pumps

[brisk lotus]

idk when I started I didnt know the lift height of the water now theyre just there

[brisk smelt]

loop the manifold

optionaly feed at both ends

[plucky violet]

But sometimes we just have to multiply by (3/3)!

[thorn bane]

eh should be fine for 585/min

[spare jolt]

Yea, I agree, but sometimes you gotta deliver e.g. ore to base because you're using leached or pure recipes, or plastics from oil to your main base for whatever. That's what I was talking about

[brisk smelt]

that set of coal gens looks like much more than 600/min

[thorn bane]

didnt he say 13 per?

[wind spade]

I don't have main base. Each factory is built near nodes that it needs to make the product

[brisk lotus]

I have 1800m3/m of water over 39 coal generators split into 3 sets of 13

[brisk smelt]

loop da manifold

[brisk lotus]

aight thanks bro

[plucky violet]

So my factory idea.
I wanted to make a factory that would produce one full building about of each item being produce in it.
For example, reinforced iron plates can be made by default 5 per minute, so i want 5/min + more that other things need plates for, such as 6.75 Reinforced Iron Plate more for modular frames and etc.
I was hoping to be efficient, with no buildup and whatnot but would that be too much work?

[thorn bane]

seems fine

[brisk smelt]

seems fine

honestly, make as much as you can lmao

[spare jolt]

While you're just starting - it won't. Later it would. But it's nice if you wanna centralize everything for whatever reason

[brisk lotus]

I tried to do the mega factory thing, but ive gotten to a point where bases elsewhere making things I need is just more viable

[wind spade]

make as much as you need*
don't make more just because you can

[brisk smelt]

megafactories are hell

you can never figure out whre anything is

[brisk lotus]

you should see my storage @brisk smelt

[plucky violet]

how about a alphabetical megafactory

[thorn bane]

thats why you need a logistic system thats easy to expand
like some sort of arrangement that lines up belts together to make it easy to branch off of

[plucky violet]

Idk what the boundary is between a mega factory and not a mega factory.
Rn im just planning a simple thing for starter resources up to a few steel based stuff.
But wondering if i should dedicate a huge factory alone for just a few things, like iron production, then some other place to make iron rods and stuff

[thorn bane]

do you have more than 2 factories on your world
if so then you dont have a megabse
you have big bases

[brisk lotus]

My main base makes everything up to computers, but im ramping up to make a large iron base in the desert

and yes, its as ugly as it sounds

[thorn bane]

if it works then it isnt ugly

[plucky violet]

I said it quite a few times in my life and ill say it once more.
It's VERY hard to make spaghetti look ugly
It always going to look tasty

[spare jolt]

there's not much of a point in building gigantic factory for one particular resource (maybe only for ingots).
for example, here's my Everything* Base i plan to build (spoiler for higher Tiers content), which produces a bit of everything before Tier 9. Even 10 computers per minute is enough if you store them in a container, because it's very unlikely you'll ever need more.

[brisk lotus]

that being said, most of my stuff is very unoptimized, when I started I thought a 1-1 ratio of smelters and crafters was perfect

[plucky violet]

I see 60 iron rods and is that only for the entire factory? 😮
The small thing i have so far uses over 200

[spare jolt]

no, that's how much you need as a final product, the actual amount is calculated in-between

same for everything else - i need 66.5 wire constructors despite requiring only 80/min

check pinned messages for this calculator, it's called Satisfactory Tools

[brisk lotus]

How do you determine what you want to make and how many/min

[vapid gorge]

it's a sandbox, it's up to you

[thorn bane]

experience
1 machine is fine for the start
and can always expand later

[wind spade]

usually just pick a small number like 5-15/min for most items

[spare jolt]

though you may need more of some for foundation-related buildings, like concrete, iron plate, steel beam etc

[edgy leaf]

first you go to satisfactory tools, then you select an item (i recommend screws) and hit maximize. then u write that number down, switch to items/min and enter that number there. et voila, thats ur end goal for the game (im joking)

oh also, dont forget to turn on all alts

you can make 5059700 screws per minute, it only takes basically all the resources of the map

[wind spade]

without accounting for sloops

[brisk lotus]

10-4 rubber ducky

[edgy leaf]

now that i think about it, that would genuinely be a funny idea for a second playthrough. just maximize screws. why? because screw you thats why!

[wind spade]

[edgy leaf]

ah, aluminum beam is doing a LOT of heavy lifting in getting that number high up

otherwise i dont think u could turn aluminum or caterium or sulfur to screws

[wind spade]

covnerters

[edgy leaf]

oh yea i guess you could convert down?

[wind spade]

not sure if possible, I don't have that nice schema of what's possible to convert at hand

[thorn bane]

is iron->sulfur->alu->rods more iron efficient than iron rods?

[edgy leaf]

i doubt it

also it would take a truck load of sam

[wind spade]

what's "iron->sulfur" step? 🤔

[edgy leaf]

yea it seems u cant turn bauxite to iron

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=PwSfIhKvklpk71O6m67N
heres the max screws setup btw

it makes steel rod normal screws, cast screws and steel screws

[thorn bane]

of WTF this is positive????

[wind spade]

according to Tools, in terms of resource efficiency:

• steel rod
• after disabling steel rod -> normal rod + pure ingot
• after disabling pure ingot -> normal rod + alloy
• after disabling alloy -> normal rod + normal ingot
• after disabling normal ingot -> converting Iron to Sulfur to acid to leached iron ingot

[edgy leaf]

ah yes, 33 sam to 10 iron rods...

[edgy leaf]

yes im going to do this (im not)

[wind spade]

well there's a few loops like that afaik, but I wouldn't really call it "positive", since you need to feed it SAM

[thorn bane]

ah got it
only slightly worse, 33.8 sam

[lime yew]

Ever wonder what it takes too make 75 Motors per minute? Well I did...

150 Rotors Per Minute
300 Steel Pipe = 450 Steel Ingots Per Minute
900 Wire = 112.5 Caterium Ingots Per Minute = 337.5 Caterium Ore Per minute

150 Stators Per Minute
450 Steel Pipe = 675 Steel Ingots Per Minute
1200 Wire = 150 Caterium Ingots Per Minute = 450 Caterium Ore Per Minute

[wind spade]

hello, is this "most convoluted way to make rods" competition?

[spare jolt]

i mean, after you complete the game and buy quadrillion golden nuts, what else's there left to do

[thorn bane]

dude i wanna build this
now imagine you sloop every step
INFINITE rods, im telling you

[lime yew]

🤣

[brisk lotus]

how many assemblers is this?

[lime yew]

1 moment please

[edgy leaf]

does anyone know a way to convert between concrete colors and normal colors?

[spare jolt]

why do you need this many motors, my brother in whoever is your god?

[lime yew]

30

[brisk lotus]

and what about foundries for all that steel?

[edgy leaf]

i want my concrete to have the same color as my other things but idk what color to enter

[wind spade]

can even remove the oil

[lime yew]

so its 9 foundrys making steel for 17 constructors that give slightly enough overproduction to leave me an excess 100 Steel Pipe Per minute

[edgy leaf]

this block of concrete and these pipes have the same color applied to them

[brisk lotus]

my brother in christ..... why do you need so many motors

[wind spade]

can't remove water tho 😦 RIP dream of pure-SAM alu rods

[torn yacht]

what does -0 power shards as byproduct mean 😭

[lime yew]

this is nothing my trio is planning on making a aluminum factory that is roughly 500 aluminum casings per minute and 500 aluminum plates per minute

[wind spade]

floating point error, can safely ignore

[brisk lotus]

im excited to see it, thats what i only aspire to create right now

[edgy leaf]

setting saturation to 100 makes it look like this: (btw im asking here mainly because i feel manipulating color swatches by entering excessive values is more meta than design)

[lime yew]

We also make 150 Encased Steel Beams Per min which takes 2700 Limestone Per min

@brisk lotus

[thorn bane]

you can if you sloop the scrap xD

[edgy leaf]

love it when +0 and -0 are two different numbers 😍

[wind spade]

it's rounded value 🤷

[wind spade]

Tools live in sloopless world unfortunately 😦

[thorn bane]

well get to work then

[wind spade]

new Tools

[thorn bane]

when

[wind spade]

2047

no but for real - sloops are impossible for current Tools without major rewrite. The solver I use currently just can't deal with something that must be an integer (if you set limit of 1 sloop, you can't put 0.3 in one machine and 0.7 in another one)

[ashen girder]

Even not rounded, +0 and -0 are different numbers. 👀

[brisk lotus]

so you're saying we need synthetic sloops

[ashen girder]

Definitely.

[thorn bane]

i dont wanna optimize for slug usage i wanna tick a box that this recipe now makes 2x as much

[brisk smelt]

or custom recipes maybe?

would that work

[brisk lotus]

Y pipe duplicators

[brisk smelt]

i wish we could sloop packagers that would be so funny

[thorn bane]

*broken

[edgy leaf]

floats are weird

[spare jolt]

infinite liquids go brrr

[wind spade]

if I start adding features like that, people will be like "ok but it would be nice if it could also do this and this"... and the cycle would never end and the "proper" implementation would need to be done separately anyway. Imo better to just say "sorry can't" and focus on new tools

[wind spade]

see above

[brisk lotus]

n1trus — Today at 7:35 PM
so you're saying we need synthetic sloops

[prime ravine]

is there a way i can make 2 75 output mines feed foundrys that require 150 overall input (i dont know how to combine the 5 extra from each belt

this is the set up

[brisk lotus]

like you have 2 iron at 75/min and 2 coal at 75/min?

[prime ravine]

so all of my foundrys need 5 compact coal per min and 10 iorn per min

how many foundrys would i be able to have and what things would be left over?

[worn heath]

When should I start investing in transport like trains and trucks?

[ashen girder]

Coal.

Steel especially.

[prime ravine]

how much though

[brisk smelt]

merge all into a manifold

[wind spade]

when you need to move something somewhere 🙂

[prime ravine]

how do i do that?

[brisk lotus]

this

I just do splitters side by side, one for iron another for coal and let the conveyors go over each other

[ashen girder]

I was replying to Caleb, sorry.

[wind spade]

around steel the game expects you to start expanding, so trucks are useful either for moving you to new locations to build factories, or to move ores to factories

[prime ravine]

what is this?

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @brisk smelt

[brisk smelt]

whats the command again

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[brisk lotus]

that

[thorn bane]

thats the worst picture of a manifold explanation i have seen in my life

[brisk smelt]

i was never trying to explain manifolds

[brisk lotus]

thats exactly what mine look like at home bro

[brisk smelt]

i just drew the logistics diagram

[prime ravine]

is a manifold basicly just overflowing all of the input for one thing so that everyithing is at max input?

then starting it

[brisk lotus]

once everything fills up, it uses exact materials

[brisk smelt]

one machine can never use more than the amount it needs, everything else overflows to the nth machine

[prime ravine]

ok cool

[worn heath]

Sorry can you clarify?

You started implementing trucks once you unlocked steel? What were you transporting?

[brisk smelt]

anything that you need to transport

[wind spade]

around steel the game expects you to start expanding, so trucks are useful either for moving you to new locations to build factories, or to move ores to factories

[brisk lotus]

am i the only one that prefers long conveyors?

[brisk smelt]

yes

[thorn bane]

belts for days

[brisk smelt]

because train tracks can be used for anything but belts can only carry one thing

unless you sushi belt, in which case straight to the gulag.

[thorn bane]

ooooh sushi is the best

[brisk lotus]

honestly been thinking about it, I just unlocked programmable splitters so my main base is gonne be a long line of mergers into one splitter

[ashen girder]

Coal, to my iron miners.

[spare jolt]

me when I use sushi belt for awesome sinks: 😨

[thorn bane]

thats rookie level
like come on look at this
i just cant stop looking

[brisk smelt]

oh fuck i had never thought of doing that for low throughput items

im so stupid

its literally drilled into my mind: "one slot one input" 😭

[thorn bane]

its good for high throughput as well xD
#math-and-meta message

[brisk smelt]

if there are screws in a production line something was mis-planned

oh wait i missed the right side

yeah thats pretty smart lol

[brisk lotus]

wait this actually works?

you dont need individual inputs?

[thorn bane]

yep
100% efficient

[brisk lotus]

oh my god youve shattered everything ive ever built

[brisk smelt]

oh fuck me

i have never ever thought of doing this

this looks really promising too, no multi-level manifolds

[brisk lotus]

I dont need splitters anymore

all i need is belts

[torn yacht]

do liquid load balancers exist?

[wind spade]

no, you can't load balance pipes

[torn yacht]

pipe splitters dont split liquids evenly?

[wind spade]

pipes are bidirectional

[glossy wagon]

Can someone help me understand formulas please... I have 2 refinerys putting out 40 heavy oil. I have another refinery making fuel 100% makes 60 fuel.. I am an idiot and don't understand how to type in the formula so the input is 40 oil

[brisk lotus]

liquid go everywhere

[spare jolt]

you have to edit the output accordingly, sadly you can't change the amount of input

[glossy wagon]

is there a quick equation for that?

i don't know why this is so hard to understand

[wind spade]

[want] / [normal] * 100 = [clock speed]

[torn yacht]

I just realized:
Im just gonna have 2: 600 pipes going into my fuel generators and use the other 133 for packaged fuel for my drones

[thorn bane]

pls dont do 600/min

[torn yacht]

itll be 1200/min turbofuel, but in 2 pipes

[torn yacht]

why?

[wind spade]

you can and if you build it properly it will work 🙂

see also #satisfactory message

[thorn bane]

pipes dont always do 600/min
do 3x 400/min
unless you are 100% sure of what youre doing, youre gonna run into throughput issues

[glossy wagon]

ok so i was able to figure out flock speed of 33.3333% which outputs 13.333 fuel if its putting out 20 normally 13.33/20*100 equals 66.65 which doesn't make sense

[wind spade]

33.3333% of 20 is 6.6666

[glossy wagon]

I just answered my own question. Thank you so much.. you've helped me immensely with your simple want / normal * 100

[wind spade]

not sure where you got the 33% clock speed, but that doesn't make 13.33

[torn yacht]

eyh makes sense

[glossy wagon]

im having to underclock my refinery because my other 2 are only putting out 20 per refinery

[glossy wagon]

100 clock would be 60 but im having to underclock it.. thanks again

that's where i got the 33.3333

[edgy pelican]

Any tips on how I could improve this to not have leftover screws

[thorn bane]

@edgy pelican
30+30+30 isnt 60 xd
use 10 of those for 40 screws to make 100 total and the other 20 for the rotors

this way you can have 4 assemblers running

[edgy pelican]

Well I’m a certified idiot😭 thank you!

[cold flower]

Anyone got any tips on how to set up a recycled plastic/rubber plant? having some issues with some rounded numbers

[pastel obsidian]

what are the numbers

[cold flower]

Trying to do this, but 833.333 fuel etc is a bit of a pain to do

[fringe pawn]

You don't need to split it up. All that fuel can be in one network.

[cold flower]

How can I have that in one network?

[pastel obsidian]

The numbers work better if you pretend that the Polymer isnt there

Thats what i do

[vapid gorge]

First process the 200 Residual rubber with fuel to plastic, then continue

[fringe pawn]

All you need to do is inject the fuel lines evenly throughout the system

Thousands of total fluids can be in a system if you want. The limit of 600 is on an individual pipe segment, not the whole system.

[cold flower]

I do not have the mental capacity to work out how that works lol

[cold flower]

That does make it a whole lot easier, but I do end up loosing out on 100 of each resource

[pastel obsidian]

you can still make it but

just dont use it for the caclulations

or you can make equal ammounts of plastic and rubber with it

[cold flower]

I think I'll sleep on what to do, it's 5am lol

[thorn bane]

do 1000/800 instead
and combine 4 blenders into 400/min

[pastel obsidian]

you could have an overflow valve that redirects the remaining oil to the underclocked plastic and rubber and the end of the line

[edgy pelican]

I just drew it out like the other one and lord this is gonna be a ton of work

[prisma kraken]

if anyone likes the idea of doing an oil micro-build, this sort of does it:

[edgy pelican]

If the assembler is making 5 reinforced iron plates a minute assuming the black boxes are spliters will each one going down be 1 iron plate a minute?

[prisma kraken]

they split off 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc going down the line, but as the machine buffers fill, the rate each machine gets stabilizes to the exact rate needed

[edgy pelican]

So if I get it backed up before connecting them to storage/another assembler it should be good right

[prisma kraken]

it takes a while for long manifolds to fill and stabilize, but once it has warmed up, every machine will get what it requires

[edgy pelican]

Alright thank you!

[quiet breach]

So if I had 1800 water, could just run 6 pipe segments into the build and break off into 3 sections into say blenders and just make it a full loop if wanted right?

[prisma kraken]

it might work, but pipes are finicky

[quiet breach]

Yeah - i kind of found running it in a big circuit seems to balance at times

Especially with the 600s

[prisma kraken]

my coal plant is designed to push 900 water into a mk1 mainfold and functions nominally

[quiet breach]

How’s that set up?

[fringe pawn]

Yep

[prisma kraken]

+++++++++++
E         E          E```

[quiet breach]

What the

[prisma kraken]

grrr ascii art fail

i have an extractor at each end of the manifold and then one injecting in the middle

[fringe pawn]

This totally works, that's all using MK1 pipes (count water extractors in the background. It's so the one pump can affect the whole system.

[quiet breach]

I guess even 3 pipe segments into build and maybe loop and it would balance the 600

[quiet breach]

Ahhh never through about this…. Running individual pipes into a segment network then running what you need out

That’s kind of cool

Count 10 ish

[prisma kraken]

its all pretty much reference design coal plant:

its just if you build it correctly, you can clock the entire thing to 250

i do similar with aluminum wastewater

sloppy+electro:

[spare jolt]

*immature giggling*

yes I know it means assemblers

[prisma kraken]

haha you typed ASSemblers 😛

[spare jolt]

:DDDDD

[prisma kraken]

gotta say it caught my eye too, but i didn't bother

[quiet breach]

Clean !!

I’ll third that on that asssssembler

I get two new pipe things to try. Need to build turbo fuel but trying to get blenders first. Never used them. And really need to go nuts on aluminum

[prisma kraken]

yeah, blenders for DF are super-nice for cutting out a lot of building

also, blended TF seems like a lot more to build, but it really isn't

[quiet breach]

It just eliminates the package unpackaged process? If i remember what You said i think it was?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it's the same 1 hor -> 2 fuel ratio as packaged fuel, the blenders do it in bigger per cycle amts though

altogether, the power usage btw dpf and blender df are around the same amount

this is my blended tf build

it makes 1200 tf/min off of 600 sulfur+900 crude and is built so when i need it the 8 blenders i'd need to make it into rocket fuel are pretty easy to add

[quiet breach]

Interesting - do you have them grouped for specific reason like that? Or just more dividing the hor up easier?

Looks clean

[prisma kraken]

well, it is 4 hor refineries @250% per 300 oil, and then that goes to the 8 groups

it just seemed a good way of partitioning it

[quiet breach]

Makes sense. Great idea and looks kinda cool divided like that instead of just in a line

[prisma kraken]

this was what i drew up as the design for it

especially with pipes, i like keeping manifolds pretty small and the numbers just sort of landed on 8 groups of stuff that made sense as groups

then it was just how to get the 12 hor refineries split into 4 pipes and that was just a matter of doing 4x3 and running the input & outputs at 90 degrees from each other

i spend some time playing with the numbers and clock speeds to get machines to be in a clean geometry

[plucky violet]

Alright im look at this real quick and im confused

I dont beleive thats how division by 2 works

[thorn bane]

the 10/min line will slowly fill up at which point it can only accept 10/min, overflowing the other 2.5 to the other side, making 12.5+2.5 = 15

[plucky violet]

hmmm i never considered to underclock before

I was just gonna split and merge belt in some form of belt heck to brute force the rates im wanting

maybe i can use this underclocking voodo instead with manifolds 😄

[thorn bane]

dont even need to underclock
it will only run 2/3 of the time, once the rod output is full anyway

[plucky violet]

I mean...it would passivelt save power in the end right?

[vapid gorge]

clocking is your single most powerful logistics tool in the game

with it you can merger certain outputs of machines and immediately have the exact number you want on it w/o doing insane splits

[thorn bane]

very very little

[plucky violet]

To think i was gonna build a single belt -> 3030 belt monster X'D

and merge them to ultimately around 4 belts

Btw during my tinkering with math i realized some of my items use 1/80th of a machine, which 3 others use (1/8th, 1/8th, and etc) making less than 1 full machine for each item.
Could some weirdness be used to make them share the same machine?
I assume something like this would be hard.
Would require a single belt input with the input items being in exact order, cause if not a clog will form

like 3 iron ore followed by 8 concrete or something like that in a repeating loop

[vapid gorge]

you can't have 1 machine do multiple recipes automatically

you'd have to be there swapping it out manually constantly

[plucky violet]

ooh no! i forgot

btw whats wrong with 600/min pipes

[thorn bane]

that part is actually possible xD
#math-and-meta message

[plucky violet]

i assumed it would of but i assume it has little use since we cant swap recipes

[vapid gorge]

they are totally doable. Lots of people don't like building pipes properly

[plucky violet]

besides belt sharing, but i dont think thats worth the complexity in the end

[thorn bane]

its used for feeding assemblers/manufacturers with 1 belt

[thorn bane]

they dont work a lot of the times

[plucky violet]

I did a lot of pipe work a bit ago 😄
Made my biggest power production yet with 32 coal generators making a whooping 2400MW

[prisma kraken]

when you push pipes to their max, put simply they can always equalize the 'pressure' in each segment when imbalances happen with machines at different clock cycles pulling from the manifold

[vapid gorge]

you can, however, loop and flood systems and be fine.

[prisma kraken]

that explanation probably will cause the start of a discussion where many theories as to why are proffered

[vapid gorge]

or, be like me and run 600pm mk2 pipes and bottom feed them

[prisma kraken]

yeah, looping actually effectively makes a pipe 1200

[plucky violet]

I feel like ik too little about logisitics to understand any of that

thats the science at play here right?

[thorn bane]

dont worry about it
just dont do 600/min pipes and youre good

[prisma kraken]

its not science, its just the way the game simulates things

[vapid gorge]

essentially looping a pipe gives it two paths

in the middle of a manifold fluid can get sucked out and the fluid in front can go backwards and create a stutter

the loop manages that.

[prisma kraken]

you do need a rigorous scientific method to test and debunk and proffer theories as to why it is the way it is though 😛

[vapid gorge]

and what Zyra is failing to mention is that even pipes running at 450 w/o the loop can stutter. so it's no just running them at 600

other things effect it too, length of the manifold, number of machines on the line ect

[prisma kraken]

observed and other explanations eliminated?

idk if i've ever seen that

[vapid gorge]

yeah, properly connected initially flooded.
didn't reliably remove the stutter

[plucky violet]

all ik so far is connect pipe at start to end and boom, water xD

[vapid gorge]

something you might be interested in recently

a 27+ refinery line, 1 sided, looped manifold would eventually very slowly, over like 6 hours, get a stutter that would just build up

[prisma kraken]

doesn't surprise me

[vapid gorge]

the only thing I can think of is that there were so many points of machine sucking in the middle that both ends couldn't keep up

I'm not surprised I hadn't noticed that behaviour earlier though because I tend to overclock everythign to 200% so my manifolds are much shorter

and I feed them on both sides

[verbal lake]

junctions are the devil

[vapid gorge]

often

[prisma kraken]

rule #1 of pipes: keep pipe networks small

[vapid gorge]

and simple

and flat

[prisma kraken]

yeah

[thorn bane]

and under 600/min

[low flume]

my ass calculating if the series sum(n=1 -> inf [(5/24)^n]) converges to optimize rocket fuel byproducts (don't tell me I want to figure it out)

[prisma kraken]

well, i mean, you gotta do 600 sometimes

that's like from an extractor to a junction though 🙂

[vapid gorge]

you know what was really funny the other day?

guy and me couldn't figure out why his fuel gen manifold wasn't working after loop and flooding

turns out 1 side of the gens were 0.5m higher up than the other xD

[thorn bane]

ye thats the only situation though

[prisma kraken]

oh yeah, that'll do it

[vapid gorge]

rebuilt the gens and immediately started working fine.

[prisma kraken]

if you have consumers at 2 different heights, it never, ever works right

[worn heath]

Setting up my first oil factory. Decent ratios for a single 240 node?

[vapid gorge]

hilarious right? xD

I should have spoted it earlier tbh, it was only machines on that side that were having some stutters

[prisma kraken]

it took me a while to realize that and why

[thorn bane]

oh i guess relooping it everytime does turn into a geometric series
cooooool

[prisma kraken]

@vapid gorge i was playing with the numbers on the recycling loop, and i wonder if you've ever seen the numbers like this before:

you can change the number of refineries to (3,3) or (4,2) and it stays balanced, just modulates the rubber & plastic output. kind of cool

[low flume]

kind of wild that I get to rocket fuel like a week after my calc 2 class starts covering series convergence too. it is indeed very cool

[vapid gorge]

I'm not surprised but I woudln't want to split up the numbers like tthat with repeatings

[prisma kraken]

ehhh, for that it works out b/c they're fractions of 9

the /9 gets eaten by the 3x10/min base consumption rate and the 3x20 seconds in a minute

the fractions i feel icky about are the 7, 11, and 13

[lime wadi]

and so it begins

[low flume]

As cool as it is that the new fuel recipes make converging geometric series, the ratios they converge to are not pretty

[thorn bane]

||lemma first: sum from 1 to N ((5/24)^n = (1-(5/24)^(N+1))/(1-5/24): ||
||proof per induction: N=1: 5/24 = (5/24)^2/(5/24), ||
||N+1 -> N: sum from 1 to N+1 ((5/24)^n = (5/24)^(N+1) + (1-(5/24)^(N+1))/(1-5/24) ||
||={ (5/24)^(N+1)(1-5/24) + 1 - (5/24)^(N+1) }/(1-5/24) ||
||(5/24)^(N+1) cancels out for (1-(5/24)^(N+2))/(1-5/24)||
||now we take lim N to infinity of (1-(5/24)^(N+1))/(1-5/24) ||
|| 5/24 < 1 => (5/24)^(N+1) -> 0, thus proving the convergence||

[low flume]

yeah I ended up proving it converges, with a ratio of (initial TF)5/19. ew. very neat stuff though

edit - that ratio is the amount of excess TF you can make from your initial TF. so final RF would be 24/19. also assuming base TF recepie, of course.

[plucky violet]

Thoughts? https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"view"%3A"REALISTIC"%2C"maxBeltSpeed"%3A"1200"%2C"maxPipeSpeed"%3A"600000"%2C"Desc_IronIngot_C"%3A"50"%2C"Desc_CopperIngot_C"%3A"30"%2C"Desc_SteelIngot_C"%3A"60"%2C"Desc_Cement_C"%3A"15"%2C"Desc_IronRod_C"%3A"15"%2C"Desc_IronScrew_C"%3A"40"%2C"Desc_IronPlate_C"%3A"20"%2C"Desc_IronPlateReinforced_C"%3A"5"%2C"Desc_CopperSheet_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_SteelPipe_C"%3A"20"%2C"Desc_SteelPlate_C"%3A"15"%2C"Desc_SteelPlateReinforced_C"%3A"6"%2C"Desc_ModularFrame_C"%3A"2"%2C"Desc_Rotor_C"%3A"4"%2C"Desc_Stator_C"%3A"5"%2C"Desc_Motor_C"%3A"5"%2C"Desc_Wire_C"%3A"30"%2C"Desc_Cable_C"%3A"30"%2C"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_1_C"%3A"2"%2C"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_2_C"%3A"5"%2C"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_3_C"%3A"2.5"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_IronIngot_Basic_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_IngotSteel_1_C"]}
I made what i planned out so far on my own calculator.
I thinking of separating some of this into segments.
Namely segments for ingots, iron product and steel product
along with copper and concrete

i hope that link works cause it took a lot of clicking then the site errored on me then after refresh it asked for an ad

[vapid gorge]

better UI and no ads afaik https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[prisma kraken]

just looking without squinting too hard at everything, your numbers look about right for phase2(ish) stuffs

probably the first thing you'll really smack into is that you'll need more mod frames & rips later for HMF's

[quiet breach]

solid idea... makes it flow easier too instead of chaos

[prisma kraken]

yeah, usually taking a step back and looking at how to group things helps tons

if you have 10 machines making something and you're looking to feed that into 5 machines, don't combine it all into a manifold, for instance

[quiet breach]

right cam go straight to it etc

[prisma kraken]

well, easier to merge two lines into a machine than do a 5-way split or overflow manifold

[toxic dove]

does anyone know why rocket fuel route cant be shown?
i have enabled all base recipes

[quiet breach]

bingo bongo

if only it was all like that lol

[prisma kraken]

you probably need to select the alts

iirc, turbofuel is considered an alt

yup

strangely, rocket fuel isn't considered an alt, but nitro rocket fuel is 🤷

also, just noticed that the icon for TF as a liquid isn't right, lol

[tranquil oasis]

Do you guys use power shards for production buildings (not just miners/extractors) especially since they can be doubled (somersloop) and tier 9 already gives you synthetic ones (and there are a lot on the map anyway)

[past reef]

even before t9 you can sloop to hold 500+ shard before tier 9, more practical in phase 3-4 imo because of power and at that point you might start wanting to save space

[vapid gorge]

often yeah, and when you can make them I over clock everything. Doesn't cost much more power

[quaint condor]

I have been using them quite a bit this go around.

[tranquil oasis]

I decided to set myself a rule and only use them for the miners/extractors and now I have too many power slugs

I'm now tier 7

[warm blade]

What do you thik will this be too much of QOL ? are happy pole accidents core gamplay at this point ?
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/670a261bddb9d97e071f9f96

[prisma kraken]

i've been using them rather liberally to reduce build sizes

[vapid gorge]

I don't even understand it really, they get deleted already if you delete the point of contanct

[tranquil oasis]

They

They're referring to the pole wires not being auto-highlighted

[vapid gorge]

do they need to be if you're deleting the thing that's hooked them up?

[prisma kraken]

i don't think it really makes much difference except in the case of the power pole where seeing an indicator of all the cables you'd be disconnecting couldn't hurt... would it be much of a QoL change? I doubt i'd even notice it changed

like it isn't unuseful, but i can't even remember last time i cared, what would be more useful is a hold cntrl to delete all the fricking power poles, lol

that might be something that would need a super hard to toggle keybind though 🙂

[frosty owl]

Tbf it would also just "make sense". One should see ALL that would be dismantled by their action, not having to think about dependencies themselves.
One example is deleting a power pole connected to a ceiling mount on the floor right below: the cable is invisible (inside the power pole) and you won't even visually notice you dismantled it, other than for the effects on the power network!

[prisma kraken]

yeah, true, but that's also why i try not to burry cables in walls 🙂

[frosty owl]

I've been much more lenient with allowing myself to do that, since I figured I could imagine the cables clipping in the walls as actual cables in walls, like IRL 😅

Extending this thought...:
Wouldn't it be cool if we had a foundation/wall that we can power and that machines can take power from, so that all foundations/walls snapped to that also draw power from it, so one entire building could be powered just by one power connector on the ground floor or something...

[fringe pawn]

That's too realistic

[opaque geode]

I am sure this has been asked multiple times. Is it better to have like one mega factory or smaller factories feeding a central manufacturing factory?

[wind spade]

Turbofuel and compacted coal are alts

[sinful vale]

that is honestly more a matter of preference, both work, only thing of note for megafactories, is that they are more taxing on your computer than having comparatively smaller factories around the map

.

anyone would mind having the talk of the pipes and the valves with me?

[wind spade]

The "don't ever use valves" one?

[sinful vale]

i haven't really done any set ups that have a sizeable amount of pipes in like 4 years, and like 80% through the bulding process i realised that this is probably not gonna work out without actual thought

[wind spade]

Megafactory usually requires you to plan the whole game from start and is very logistically complex

[sinful vale]

and ofc the very first thing i set up to make was a full turbofuel set up with alts, numbers check out as far as i can tell, but i did 0 double checking on how the fluids will behave besides remembering that they started acting weird if they were in a pipe at max flow rate so i avoided having any pipes at max flow rate

[opaque geode]

So I could do smaller modular factories and have them produce goods to a central point?

[wintry marlin]

how bad is it to use normmal fuel for drones?

[fringe pawn]

It's totally fine? What do you mean bad?

[wintry marlin]

mainly because it onl;y has a fraction of the fuel value, and i never used vehicles, so idk how much fuel they will consuem

[fringe pawn]

If you are otherwise sinking packaged fuel, just give it a try.

[wind spade]

Or to depots, yeah

[wintry marlin]

wdym? i am now starting a fuel factory for centralized drone fuel

[past reef]

If you fuel drone at least do turbo, regular takes twice as much time as battery/turbo