math-and-meta

[fringe seal]

true, and train for 70/min seems overkill

[slow warren]

made a 6 to 7 load balancer for 5.6k sulfur a minute. Does this look like it'll be enough? Each box needs 800 sulfur a minute so I split 6 into 18, feeding 14 of them into the boxes (which should be about 800 with the mk6 belt speed) and then the last 4 get sent back into a 3 way splitter going to the train station inputs

[vapid gorge]

Sounds painful but if you did the math it’ll prob be fine

Why couldn’t you process it just in 6 lines?

[slow warren]

the blenders are in a 4x7

it was easier in my head to just do it in straight lines as I didnt give myself a lot of room down there

[vapid gorge]

Ah, I would have just clocked the blenders to deal with each group

[slow warren]

mhm, definitely something I'll keep note about. First megabuild and its been....a ride

everythings fine except sulfur input

[fringe pawn]

Sulfur is easy enough to accumulate that balancing isn't really necessary. Saturating manifolds of things like computers can take a crazy long time, but I don't see the point with raw resources like sulfur where multiple ISCs might feel by the time you finish the factory and are ready to plug it in. If you want to, you want to, but I would reconsider that approach for future chunks of your big build.

[slow warren]

well the problem was just I needed more throughput as I was maxing out the belt speed for the items

needed 5.6k sulfur a minute

[pastel obsidian]

It looks good

If it works it works

[slow warren]

looks like the test works too and is running as smoothly as it can, now to figure out how to get more reliable train throughput

[vapid gorge]

In general I’d recommend dealing with lines is to just process them as is but then clock and merge the outputs into whatever groups you want

And with very large systems like this you want to plan several steps in advance

[pastel obsidian]

I have a few thoughts on that if you want to listen

[slow warren]

go for it

[pastel obsidian]

Do you need your station to load / unload faster or do you need your trains to pick up faster

[slow warren]

I'm pretty sure I need the trains to pick up/bring it to me faster

I haven't added more trains to the track yet, was about to set up 7 on the track with block signals

[pastel obsidian]

First I would calculate how long it takes for a station to unload a full cart

[slow warren]

about 4 minutes

[fringe seal]

ah ok. so a drone only shuttles between its home port and its destination port, no more

[pastel obsidian]

So you need to make a full train load come every 4 minutes

[slow warren]

essentially, which I have 7 different sulfur mining locations that its stopping at

[pastel obsidian]

It should take a station just under 2 minutes to unload a full sulfur load

[vast jungle]

double MK6 belt into a closeby container?

[pastel obsidian]

That's with two Mark 6 belts

[vapid gorge]

oh it's making 7 stops?

[vast jungle]

the ISC fits perfectly in parallel with the train station, so there is no reason not to use it

[slow warren]

Yeah, I was planning on making it a 7 trains loop that has one for each station

that way it brings a steady supply of sulfur

haven't finished setting up the trains yet as I needed that load balancer working

[pastel obsidian]

A train station can effectively have the output of 1.4 mark 2 belts because the unload time stops exports

[vapid gorge]

as in you have 7 trains making the loop? youuuu are gonna want to change the design

every train that stops at a particular station reduces those platform's throughput

it would make your life 10000% simpler if you did 1 smaller train just going between each point and a delivery station

[slow warren]

yeah, that was plan B if this didnt work out which seems to be the case now

[vapid gorge]

You could try doing it so each train stops and waits to be filled at every station

that could work?

[slow warren]

I did also plan for excess in the system itself (pretty sure I am mining about 6.2k or something like that)

[vapid gorge]

excess won't be the issue here

but you could try the waiting option if you don't want to change it up

[slow warren]

was planning on the trains not being the fastest. I'll try the 7 trains and blocks just so that I can hopefully avoid a complete railroad reconstruction

[vast jungle]

having one train per resource node that wait until its full should also work

[slow warren]

would that be smart if each node is uneven?

[vapid gorge]

doesnt really matter

[pastel obsidian]

Having 7 import stations sounds like death

[vast jungle]

the idea is to have trains mostly sitting at the resource node... so it doesn't matter how much the node produces

and then they travel to the same destination node to unload

[pastel obsidian]

I think sir needs to buffer the output

[slow warren]

nvm I understand your comment

[rotund summit]

this seems like a nice spot for pure quartz and cheap silica, is anybody making that particular setup here?

[vast jungle]

not sure how SF handles destination train stations which still have a train inside

[pastel obsidian]

Looks perfect imo

[slow warren]

with blocks, they wait right outside if you set it up right

[vast jungle]

which could mean with bad timing you have 6 trains waiting in front of the station... you might need some parking space

[pastel obsidian]

You don't need to have the trains access the network so it sounds perfect solution

[pastel obsidian]

All the trains are waiting for the same station so it's not that much of an issue

[vast jungle]

it is if the last 6 blocks before the train station are part of a shared train network ^^

[slow warren]

o-o oh god

nah all my trains are closed loops/back and forths

[pastel obsidian]

Is it a loop or a bi directional train

[slow warren]

I do a mix of both, this giant ones a loop

[pastel obsidian]

How many freight platforms do you have?

[slow warren]

3, wanted to make sure I can push out as much onto mk6 belts as I could

so with 6 outputs thats a max of 7.2k items a min

[pastel obsidian]

You also need a buffer here

They can't output 1200 per belt also

[slow warren]

oh?

[pastel obsidian]

Bets stop working when unloading

[slow warren]

yeah, I did calculate a bit for train buggery

[vast jungle]

thats why you normally have an ISC directly at the train station with double connection to the station and only single belt to/from the factory

[slow warren]

I needed at the very least 800 per box

heres the train line in question

[vapid gorge]

yeah just make dedicated sulfur trains for each stop

[pastel obsidian]

3 stations can't output enough to keep 7*800 boxes filled from what I can tell

[slow warren]

well they dont need to be filled, they just need 800/min each

filling them is a bonus

[pastel obsidian]

In order to keep the machines running you will need sulfur to be topped up

[slow warren]

that'd definitely make this project a lot easier

[swift portal]

OC supercomputers seems too good to be true

Which RCU and CU alts should I look at?

[pastel obsidian]

What are you processing the sulfur into

[swift portal]

Looks like CU only has the one, it looks good and worth doing. Anything to get water out of the system.

For RCU, I’m leaning towards the one with heat sinks and connectors.

[slow warren]

Rocket Fuel

I made a big tube

and need to supply 840 gens with 10 fuel each

which is all good except for the sulfur part cause I was too ambitious with my train line lol

[static pivot]

Damn, you better not go too close to that with anything explosive xD

[pastel obsidian]

I would say make two twin lines

Is there a no smoking sign in the game

[swift portal]

For rocket fuel, is it worth using the alt to skip the turbofuel step

[pastel obsidian]

I think your build might need one

[slow warren]

I mean its only a little big

[static pivot]

I'm using it. Convenience alone is enough to convince me in this case

[slow warren]

same here, its just too many machines for turbo fuel

and I think you get more out of going straight from diluted fuel too?

that could be wrong tho

[swift portal]

Jesus I’m going to have to redo my entire oil production

[slow warren]

do what I did and make another

[static pivot]

Same here

[swift portal]

I guess I could

[static pivot]

My 80 gens of diluted fuel are still contributing to global warming while I'm building my rocket fuel plant

[pastel obsidian]

I wouldn't mind if some areas of the map became flooded

[static pivot]

More room for water extractors \o/

[swift portal]

If I build a separate rocket fuel plant I’ll have to run compacted coal again….

[slow warren]

not if you skip turbo fuel

you still need sulfur and coal, but you dont need compact coal

[swift portal]

Well sulphur and coal so

[slow warren]

yeah...:c

I hate sulfur now

[pastel obsidian]

Doesn't it use more sulfur

[slow warren]

not really

[pastel obsidian]

I could be wrong

[swift portal]

I mean I’d have to ship taht in when I have my oil production area already having sulphur and coal shipped in

Maybe I could just devote a small section of it to rocket fuel

[slow warren]

it does use more sulfur per minute but youd have a way larger production line

[static pivot]

It has nothing to do with alternates but I LOVE the fact that rocket fuel is a gas. It's freeing to not care about headlift

[slow warren]

I wouldnt have made this a tower if it weren't for that

imagine pumping all that

[static pivot]

Net power generation : -20W total

[fringe seal]

Am I understanding it right, Pure Aluminum + Sloppy Alumina eats more space but is more resource efficient than the standard?

[slow warren]

only for water it looks like

well actually

maybe....but you could also add silica back into the equation from somewhere else

[fringe seal]

as in, the standard uses up silica, while sloppy + pure doesn't

and both has the same ratio of bauxite:aluminum

[slow warren]

pure takes out the silica biproduct and doubles the bauxite juice

you're getting double the solution per minute

[fringe seal]

right, more coal

[slow warren]

mhm, or coke if you need to get rid of a biproduct

that's what I'm doing at my home bases silica factory. I'm taking alumina solution from an area and putting it on a train, sending it home and putting it into electrode scrap

then using the water to fuel pure copper/iron refineries

[fringe seal]

ahhh nice

[static pivot]

In my aluminum setup I just input back the water surplus. It was easier to do than I thought at first

[slow warren]

thats the smart way of doing it.

I'm not a smart man

[static pivot]

It felt like the lazy way tbh xD
Like :"Oh damn, gotta deal with that ? You know what, I'll just put it back in !"

[slow warren]

oh it is, but its effective

[pastel obsidian]

The most simple solutions are sometimes the best

[vapid gorge]

direct feeding is the least reliable option

the most reliable is having a seperate set of refineries that only use the waste water

[slow warren]

oh really, so I was being effective afterall?

[vapid gorge]

it's essentially the simplest set up and unbreakable

[pastel obsidian]

I think you might be doing it wrong

But to each their own

[slow warren]

you arent wrong, that copper refinery makes more ingots than I can handle

[static pivot]

It never broke it my save at least

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you have other uses for the water sure, burn it there. I like keep systems separate though, easier to trouble shoot and less problems can crop up

[vapid gorge]

yeah, it being possible to set up isn't my argument. Just that a lot of people have it not work and the way to trouble shoot it is patching it.

Even the guy who made the awful video everyone is referencing lately acknowledged seperating the systems was the most reliable at the end of the vid

[slow warren]

agreed, Id only mix systems if i needed a biproduct gone

and man do I hate getting rid of water

[static pivot]

The awful video ? I must have missed that

[vapid gorge]

some video published a month or so ago going through the various methods. Guy highly suggests this valve buffer method that's caused a lot of issues for people trouble shooting things. Guy couldn't even make the VIP junction option work for him. And barely takes 5 seconds to go 'oh yeah, just keeping them seperate is the simplest'

[static pivot]

I didn't use a valve in my setup tho' maybe that's why ?

[vapid gorge]

eh, direct feeding is possible but pipe shape, elevation changes, not having repeating decimals can fuck it up pretty easily

all things that people can make tiny variations on and then have it fall apart

[slow warren]

pipe elevation with fluids makes me cry

[vapid gorge]

eh, elevation changes are totally managable outside the manifold. You just want ot keep your manifolds flat

[static pivot]

Thankfully, tears only go down so you don't have to account for elevation while crying 🙂

[mild tangle]

how many types ofitems is there in the game?

[slow warren]

define types

[vapid gorge]

probably individual objects that can built

[mild tangle]

not protein oir player items

[static pivot]

Like iron ore, iron plate, iron rods, etc.. =

[vapid gorge]

not sure since 1.0, you'd have to check the wiki. Might have been 36 pre 1.0?

[static pivot]

Only 36 ? 😮 I would have guess more

[vapid gorge]

maybe that was the number of useful items to store. can't recall.

never a thing I paid suuuuper close attention to

[static pivot]

It can be interesting to know if you aim to have a DD for each craftable item in the game

[vapid gorge]

even plutonium rods?

[static pivot]

Could be a post project assembly "challenge"

[vapid gorge]

the list I'm thinking of was just the items used for building things I think

a fairly niche list then xD

[static pivot]

Yup niche af xD

There's 151 pages with the "items" category on the wiki but that account protein and players items

[slow warren]

satisfactory calculator says 19 items

[mild tangle]

ye i saw that BUT can you see all your items if you put your save in the website?

[slow warren]

Ores, Ingots, Minerals, Aliens, Liquids, Gas, Standard parts, Industrial Parts, Electronics, Communications, Quantum Technology, Containers, Fuels, Consumed (filters n stuff), Ammo, Nuclear, Waste, Special, and the Ficsmas stuff

probably

but I wouldnt be able to see

I dont have a save with everything

also lets go my train line works for now

belts full and thats good

[mild tangle]

im gonna rework my base for a central storage

[static pivot]

You don't like the depots ?

[slow warren]

closest I could get to a no smoking sign

[static pivot]

It's perfect 😄

[pastel obsidian]

That's so funny

[subtle goblet]

is there any reason why my gris has power spikes?

[static pivot]

Hard to say without more info

[subtle goblet]

oh not enough fuel :/

[vast jungle]

that sounds like a valid reason for power spikes

[slow warren]

"oh lemme just connect it to the powergri- oh..."

and to think, these are going to be clocked at 240% once the shard maker is set up

[static pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/unlimited-power-star-wars-gif-10270127

[slow warren]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-maximum-power-power-spongebob-squarepants-full-power-gif-22777727

[static pivot]

noise of a fuse blowing

[slow warren]

I despise the fuse blowing noise so much that I overprepare power constantly

this is my coop playthrough and my base mate lives in luxury

I went straight from my first nuclear plant to this monster

oh my god I can see it from up here

[upper arrow]

whats the "best" recipe for medical inhaler

[vapid gorge]

define best

[wind spade]

Whatever you have around

[upper arrow]

gimma second i pressed enter too early

[vapid gorge]

but yeah pretty much what greeny said

[upper arrow]

im currently building a small factory where i can just dumb all my gathered shit into which auto sorts everything and produces it with somersloop
so im currenty looking for what products i need (e.g. all 3 slugs, all alien remains, etc)
and one product is the medical inhaler
i mean i could also make several recipes which are indebentend from each other if you guys come up with more than one

[vapid gorge]

afaik you can't make inhalers by machine?

Unless I really missed something

[upper arrow]

oh i thought i could since i can make gas filter as well, huh my bad TIL

[wind spade]

You can't indeed

[upper arrow]

then i only need protein, dna capsule and power shard production

[tawny dragon]

You can make the inhaler components go into a single area and craft them there though

[vapid gorge]

I use all the inhaler recipes tbh, just whatever stuff I have stored away. Less the mycelia one though because I rarely go in caves

[upper arrow]

yeah since i cant automate ill just whatever i found, that question lost its meaning when i realised i couldnt automate it

[slow warren]

I'd say either of the protein ones

since you can sloop the protein

[mild tangle]

this is my idea of the storage system. is this overkill with 2 inputs? will i have a use for 2 inputs?

smart splitters for overflow down or up to sinks on both lines

[pastel obsidian]

It seems overkill but you do you

[mild tangle]

yea but will it matter with 2 inputs? or will it just be the same eventually

[fringe pawn]

I'm only using the mycelia inhaler recipe because I don't want to clutter my scanner with edibles, and I'm too stingy to forgo the DNA capsules with the alien protein recipes.

[frosty owl]

I've been running 10GW of Biofuel Power with all that biomass

[fringe pawn]

Nice

That needs 80 corpses per minute?

No, per hour.

[static pivot]

Does anybody knows what happen if I plug 2000MW worth of consumption on a full Power Storage ? Would it be empty after 3mn ?

[deft lichen]

100 MWh / 2000 MW = hours to drain

Yes, exactly 3 min

[static pivot]

Cool ! Thanks 🙂

[frosty owl]

I have no idea. I just feed it 1 or 2 stacks of remains anytime I notice the Protein container having less than 200 ^^
(I also have 8 full Industrial Fluid buffers at the ready, just in case I forget to feed remains often enough...)

It's about 2/3 of all I collect from exploration

[fringe pawn]

IIRC, one corpse feeds one fuel generator for 30 minutes. Assuming sloops at each step.

[frosty owl]

I could, but haven't, run the numbers 😅

Like, I just wanted to brute force it and see wether it was convenient or not... I found it convenient ^^

I'd have expected to make half the power, tbh... the amount is insane compared to pre-1.0

[fringe pawn]

Yep, I'm collecting ISCs of liquid biofuel for funsies.

[frosty owl]

Bruh... Packaged Biofuel is (in jetpack)

[fringe pawn]

I didn't feel compelled to replace it until ionized fuel. And even then, barely an upgrade.

Biofuel is definitely viable to finish phase 5 now.

[frosty owl]

I mean, running ONLY on biofuel wouldnt' be advisible IMO, but I see your point 😆

[fringe pawn]

Definitely not advice I'd give to a first time player. At some point I might try a no coal, oil or quartz playthrough though. Not counting biocoal and charcoal.

There's so many oscillators at crash sites I don't think you need to make any, if you sloop to RCUs. DNA capsule slooping makes purchasing parts easier than ever.

[earnest apex]

Steel packages good or nah?

[haughty badge]

sorry, i'm not good at maths so i'll ask here; I have 12 smelters making 360 iron ingots, but I want to make 400 ingots for 4 constructors making iron pipes

What should I overclock the smelters to?

[earnest apex]

1 smelter makes 30 iron into 30 ingots?

[haughty badge]

yeah?

[static pivot]

10 Smelter overclocked to 133% should do the trick no ?

[wind spade]

do you like making canisters out of steel?

[earnest apex]

I'm not in game u usually do equations for this
30 ingots need 30 iron
40 ingots need X ingots
You usually have the option to just write the output you want in the machine though

[haughty badge]

That's a good work around, thanks!

[earnest apex]

Yeah it's nearby and convenient but I was wondering if It was a terrible use of steel

[haughty badge]

like i said i am not good at maths, so i asked here

[wind spade]

resources are practically infinite, use whatever you want 🙂

[earnest apex]

Last part then write 40 iron in your machine
You can ask it to give the output you want

[earnest apex]

I have a package question if you can answer
Where do you lose the packages? I keep going through my head and it sounds like after you liberate the liquids you now have twice the packages

[wind spade]

depends what do you use it for

if you unpackage it, you get it back
if you use packaged fuel e.g. for vehicles/jetpack, you lose the package

[earnest apex]

I see so that means I just reuse one line of packages to fuel the whole factory!

Inma make Fiscit proud with this one

[frosty owl]

For personal use, even a machine making 1 empty package/min can suffice, so long as you have a few stacks of packages aviable when you actually need them ^^

[earnest apex]

I have to create exactly 1000 packs for the factory at which point it will just loop the packs
What do you mean personal use?

[frosty owl]

Whenever you just need to take some rather than having some produced continuously (eg: getting packages for a fluid loop needs a fixed amount, getting packages for fuel used for vehicles need a constant supply)

I call it "personal use" because you'll be personally handling the stacks at least once, while for production you don't touch the packages, you just belt them to the machines needing them

[earnest apex]

True! Is lucky I hoard one industrial depo of everything I make
I didn't know how handy it will be
How tall are convergers like 0.3 m?

[frosty owl]

An ISC can be good enough to for most things, unless you plan on quite big scales

[fierce ruin]

is a urnaium fuel unit better to use thanthe normal or nah

[fierce ruin]

no one ever told me this existed

this would make my life SO much easier

[naive garnet]

Hey I have a question, im bringing in Nitrogen gas from a nearby trainstation for my cooling systems but for some reason the drain rate is just horrible

anybody know how to fix it

[fierce ruin]

it is better to package gases

for long transport

[naive garnet]

I mean the transport is not that long

You can see the other train station in the distance

[fierce ruin]

yeah but packaging would likely be better

dont have to emss with train tanks

[naive garnet]

Do you know how many canisters I need for this closed loop?

[fierce ruin]

no l could not tell you, i just know packaging gases tends to be better

[silent patrol]

Hey people, I have this thing i made to collect all the ores from the desert and take it to the desert plateau to be processed but i've reached a problem. the train goes from the first train station (pic 1) to the last train station (last circle in pic 2) and fills up as it goes back to the first station, the problem is that it fills up on ore as soon as it reaches the first freight to be filled so the remaining stations cant feed any more ore into the freights how would i go about fixing this?

i hope that made sense

[earnest apex]

Make a freight per ore?

[silent patrol]

yeah theres 8 freights and 3 stations on one line but the problem is when it reaches the other 2 stations its already full

[earnest apex]

Can't transport all the ore as it stops for more ore it doesn't have space anymore right?

[silent patrol]

yeah pretty much it fills up all freights on the first station it stops at leaving no room for others

[earnest apex]

Can't make trains faster
Can't put more freights
The solution must be an extra train or tractor I'll guess
Maybe make some of the ore come in belts if it's nearby?
That'll be my bet

[silent patrol]

i was thinking of having one train per station but the logistics of that sound hard to make nice

[earnest apex]

What about one per ore? So it all gathers nicely

[silent patrol]

one per ore means 8x7 which is 56 trains

i have 7 lines

[earnest apex]

Wow that's so much ore tha fuck

[silent patrol]

youve gave me an idea make 8 lines instead of 7 and have one ore train per line

with about 8 freights on it still

[earnest apex]

On ore type right?

[silent patrol]

yeah

[earnest apex]

That's what ... Whatever if it works it works

[silent patrol]

would that not work?

[earnest apex]

It sounds like, yeah

[viral fractal]

56 freight train NOW

[silent patrol]

look at this loser BURN him NOW

[viral fractal]

WE ARE LITERALLY COOPERATIVE

[earnest apex]

Are you going to brutally execute a man between 6 persons cause they don't pay you enough?

[viral fractal]

Help

[vestal granite]

how does one split 15 into 10 and 5

No smart splitters

[silent patrol]

programable splitters

[vestal granite]

Nvm it just clicked

[viral fractal]

edit fail

[vestal granite]

15 into 3 5's then merge two, leave the other untouched

[viral fractal]

exactly that yeah

[silent patrol]

SHUT UP LOSER

[vestal granite]

It takes me a minute sometimes, it didnt click til I asked lol

[viral fractal]

yeah that happens to me haha

silly feeling

[cursive heron]

the correct answer is to have a truck for each node without any roads, let them figure out deadlocks themselves so the dune desert turns into a madmax world

[earnest apex]

Just need a mod to strap a few guns

[fierce ruin]

how many uranium fuel rods does a fully overclocked nuclear reactor use per minute?

[vapid gorge]

gasses behave very poorly in buffers, don't expect to get full throughput like that

[tawny dragon]

0.5?

[vapid gorge]

and just have a container half full to flood a system

[fierce ruin]

thats bettery than i thought

so if i have 10 fully overclocked reactors then i need only 5 per minute?

[tawny dragon]

Normal uses 0.2 so 0.2 * 2.5 is 0.5

[tawny dragon]

Correct, and you would have to deal with 250 waste per minute (Each burnt rod is 50 waste, and one rod burns in 120s IF OVERCLOCKED so)

[fierce ruin]

is 250 the full amount or jsut one rod?

[tawny dragon]

So one rod turns to 50 always, but overclock causes rods to burn at 120, so you get 50 at once, which is 25 per minute,

[cursive heron]

you also might want to have your water close or infront if you're overclocking to 250% since it will need 600m3 water

[fierce ruin]

yeah im building in the swamp

[cursive heron]

nuclear swamp enjoyers

[fierce ruin]

my god

[cursive heron]

don't know any other place you can do this after they cut the north west portion

[tawny dragon]

"Small project"

[vapid gorge]

@cold flower what are you trying to do exactly?

[fierce ruin]

should i use the plutonium rods from the waste for more reactors or for sotrage?

[tawny dragon]

Plutonium rods give plutonium waste which you cannot get rid of.

[fierce ruin]

yes

[cursive heron]

depending on how big your build is storing uranium waste can brick your save just because of how much waste they produce

[fierce ruin]

but ocean storage>>>

[tawny dragon]

So I personally don't want that anywhere around, therefore no.

[cold flower]

It's mainly to manage how much water is going through each pipe, as I'm using water as a byproduct for pure ingot recipes in a different area of the plant.

[fierce ruin]

cant plutonium waste be used in tier 9

[vapid gorge]

ah ok so there's 3 main ways to manage this.

do you want reliable or weird?

[cursive heron]

takes too much resources to reprocess plutonium waste

[fierce ruin]

whats it turn into?

[cursive heron]

are you asking if its ok to store plutonium or uranium waste?

[cold flower]

reliable would be preferable lol

[cursive heron]

plutoinium is a-ok to store, a storage landfill can lasts 10k+ hours

[tawny dragon]

Only 10k hours?! I will have that done in a week!

[fierce ruin]

cause i would also like PFRs for drones

[vapid gorge]

so this diagram shows ratio examples of the different recipes. The idea is that you process a portion of the bauxite with fresh water, and the rest with waste water, never mixing the two

an example I set up before , blue line is fresh, red is waste

[cursive heron]

if you're using PFRs for drones don't put them in reactors otherwise you'll have inconsistent power

just make uranium fuel unit, default plutonium rods
then it goes into an overflow splitter with overflow going into sink and one output going into your drone network

[vapid gorge]

and you laugh but there are a lot of less reliable ways to do it. And they can work but trouble shooting them when they don't is a bit of a crapshoot

[fierce ruin]

i was gonna use the normal recipe

[cursive heron]

pfrs can be sunk, for some reason

[cold flower]

I see, I'll look into it, was kinda just thinking of avoiding it entirely as it seemed like a pain to do

with the graph, is might be a bit easier

[vapid gorge]

does it make sense to you? I don't like making assumptions about people's math ability.

if you have any questions I can help you work through the example you're trying to do now if you like

like some people will just glaze over looking at the diagram

[cursive heron]

a pretty big difference between all uranium alts and no uranium alts
its 7.2/min vs 3/min for every 300 uranium

[fierce ruin]

well shit i gave up the unit recipe for smth else

[cursive heron]

default only outputs 37.5GW, all alts outputs 90GW

[fierce ruin]

idk

[timid sentinel]

What are some good alternates to simplify Uraniam/Plutonium Fuel Rods production?

[cold flower]

lol, I feel like i should be able to manage, but not 100% sure
Trying to use two pure bauxite nodes (1560) ore per min to 100% efficiency, mainly to avoid anything stalling

[fierce ruin]

should i maximzie off of one node or pull in multiple uranium nodes?

[timid sentinel]

Sry i accidently replayed to you

[worldly agate]

https://tenor.com/view/docbrown-backtothefuture-gigawatt-gif-5445981

[cursive heron]

gigawhats

[cursive heron]

the correct answer is maximize all the nodes

[vapid gorge]

something I prepared earlier.

the top section is an example of processing 780 bauxite and what the refineries are clocked at

[fierce ruin]

oh

how many reactors is that

[vapid gorge]

I'm pretty sure the math is right on that, I threw it together for someone and they didn't come back to me with more issues

[cursive heron]

depends if you're going no waste, a few plutonium waste, or a lot of plutonium waste

[fierce ruin]

no waste?

[cursive heron]

252 reactors

[fierce ruin]

is that overclocked or no

[vapid gorge]

oh wait, this is using Sloppy + Electrode, were you using different recipes?

[cursive heron]

not oc

[cold flower]

No, that's what I'm using

[cursive heron]

its 100 oc-ed reactors and one at 200%

[fierce ruin]

okay so 101

thats ALOT of space

what do drones do with the PFR's waste once they use em up

[cursive heron]

they don't produce waste

[vapid gorge]

cool that should give you a good framework then. You can change the layout and clocking as long as the right amounts are still being processed

[fierce ruin]

oh

PFRs dont produce waste or just drones?

[cursive heron]

on vehicles

they produce waste if you put them in reactors

[fierce ruin]

oh okay

i would like my vehicle network to use em

not like i dont run around with 100 filters constantly already

[cold flower]

welp, time to redo my plant for the third time lmao
Had to redo the furnaces yesterday, because I accidentally made 2x the amount I needed, as I divided the amount of scrap to 30 (the amount produced), instead of 60 (the amount consumed)

[fierce ruin]

i almost had panic attack yesterday, i thought i had built 164 foundries instead of 205

and i had no more space

[vapid gorge]

that happens xD but the positive side is that all the processes that have a byproduct used in a previous step? can be handled in a similar way 🙂

I think the only changes is to some of hte dark matter residue one but the difference is you make more crystals than you need and will need to sink them

[cold flower]

btw, do I only need to give water for the two refineries initially for the others to start up?

[dark star]

so im producing 600m3/min fuel, i feed it into a mk2 pipe and hook up 30 fuel gens.. my peabrain says this shouldnt cause any throughput issues, but the last 2 or 4 fuel gens dont get 100% fed and the start of my production is sometimes backed up due to full pipes..

Can some of you wizards explain the problem to me like im 5?

[rapid pumice]

did you read how pipe flow works?

[dark star]

read? yes. 100% understanding? probably not

[daring wing]

how much does one fuel gen need?

sorry im new

[dark star]

20m3/min for normale fuel at 100% clockspeed

[rapid pumice]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

[daring wing]

wow didnt know this exist, thx

[vapid gorge]

yup! the others slowly spin up to 100%

[cold flower]

Gotcha, thanks for the help

[ashen girder]

Please use the wiki.gg link: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf The one you've shared is from Fandom and should never be used.

[vapid gorge]

you'll need to create a pipe loop and flood the system by turning off a few gens at first

[daring wing]

is it outdated?

[vapid gorge]

a pipe loop like this

[vapid gorge]

fandom is outdated yes

[ashen girder]

Probably. 😂 The Fandom wiki is outdated, so I'd assume any link to it is outdated.

[rapid pumice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIr1OY0VE-s&t=0s

[vapid gorge]

that is extremely old

[dark star]

this is what i did, yeah, so you functionally have 2 inputs.. but i feel like its the smollbrain solution, cause i still dont understand WHY a single input of 600m3 wouldnt be enough for a 600m3 demand

[vapid gorge]

so you have a fluid manifold right?

what if a machine sucks out fluid from the middle and the fluid in front flows back?

[ashen girder]

Because of how flow dynamics work, you can have pipes trying to receive flow from multiple directions. If the total of those is over 600, the overall throughput gets reduced.

[thorn bane]

but then why does it work with 300

[ashen girder]

Because everything at 300 is less sensitive.

And slower, overall.

[dark star]

but wouldnt that average out in moment of demand less than 600m3?

[vapid gorge]

this would normally stutter the whole system probably forever

[ashen girder]

No, because every moment over 600 is hard capped to 600. Reducing the actual average.

[vapid gorge]

having it flooded, and coming from both directions this manages backflow

[dark star]

ooooh,

i think i get it now

cheers friends

[ashen girder]

And yeah, I think people do get it on 300, it's just a substantially smaller effect, and people aren't running 300 exactly as often.

[vapid gorge]

the example I shared of a loop might be the most stable version you can build

[ashen girder]

Unless you wanna get stupid. 🤣 I built an equalizer with like four pumps and a buffer that works great.

[vapid gorge]

Also any vid that says mk2 pipe bug I wouldn't trust, as mk2 pipes don't have a flow bug

they work as intended as stated by devs

[ashen girder]

This holds steady at 600 on the bottom right pipe, recieving 200 from the top and 600 from the bottom left.

[rapid pumice]

that's fair @vapid gorge

[ashen girder]

And as far as I can tell, every piece here is required.

[crude forge]

how can I chain a convayor lift through multiple floor holes?

[thorn bane]

im curious what throughput did you get?

[ashen girder]

I would bet like 580 or so.

That should be enough to make two of them stutter I think.

[vapid gorge]

just keep connecting them

[spare jolt]

byproduct, wow

[fierce ruin]

my favorite byproduct

an extremely complex component

[ashen girder]

I'm partial to Power Shards as a byproduct, personally. 😁

At least you can sink TPRs.

[prime ravine]

is someone able to help me with this math

im trying to make a steel factory (my first one ever) and i have the 1 compact coal to 2 iorn recipe and i am building it near the lake i got 120 compact coal out put and 150 iorn out put i have only got the basic steel part and i dont know what is the most optimal way to do this main thing i need help with is knowing what is the max output i can have of all steel prosesses

[dark star]

sorry for the late reply, buy because i had it set up in a linear fasion, i would have occasional dips in throughput so it would fluctuate between 500-600m3, making it so that the last 4 gens in the line would sometimes turn off for a cycle or two

looping the pipe fixed all issues

[thorn bane]

aight ty

[thorn bane]

wait what do you mean with the 1 compacted coal to 2 iron recipe?

[prime ravine]

that turns into steel

[prime ravine]

the compacted steel ingot recipe

[thorn bane]

ah i see
ye then youre capped by the 150 iron and can only use 75 of the compacted coal
might be worth finding another iron node
also holy fuck is compacted steel building inefficient

its 10/min????? wtf did they do

[prime ravine]

what do you mean?

[thorn bane]

compacted steal outputs 10/min
it was 37.5 before 1.0
but i guess they bufferd the efficiency? weird

[hushed trellis]

made a blueprint of my industrial factory feelin p smart :yippee:

[prime ravine]

@thorn bane how much of the compacted coal is used?

[thorn bane]

half, so 75/min

[prime ravine]

what things can i use compacted coal for

[warm blade]

I sometimes see questions about "priority merger" wouldn't this solve that ? https://imgur.com/a/kjsBd3S
Edit: you can drop left fast belt requirement if backing up (flow impedance) is not your concern

[pastel obsidian]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Compacted_Coal

Turbo fuel and bullets or boom sticks

[prime ravine]

so would it be more useful to not make the coal into compact and use the sulfer for something else?

[pastel obsidian]

Early game no

late game yes

[prime ravine]

should i use the excess compact coal just to all be turned into BP and used in coal power?

[thorn bane]

thats output priority not input priority

[thorn bane]

also this design has less throughput issues

[plain rivet]

is that different than putting an overflow on input and and 2, and then merging the two any lines as priority and merging the 2 overflow lines as other?

[plain rivet]

yeah, that's what i just described

[pastel obsidian]

I say burn it for power more useful early game

[prime ravine]

ok cool

[pastel obsidian]

Silica and Quartz Crystal are great ways to get points early on

[spare jolt]

(if you could find any)

(after 1.0 i barely found any quartz, an even the one I found on the other side of the map was in a cave and guarded by an alpha spitter)

[warm blade]

WHat do you mean on my screenshot the right IN is high prio because Input 1 is not impeded as much no ?
EDIT: actually if you keep that left belt top speed one then you have IN 1= Priority and not impeded in any way- that slower belt overflow left returns full In trafick if the original left High prio output is full

[pastel obsidian]

made it more compact

[ionic bough]

I saw a video of Rxckxt, where he made a Railway roundabout with radius 16 m. So I tried it and did some math and experimentation. Turns out you can make your radius 16 if the length of your arc is between 43 and 55 degrees (inclusive).

Making an arc of 42 degrees or less: track is too short.

Making an arc of 56 degrees or more: track turns too sharply.

I this interesting to anyone else? (The wiki says you need a radius of 17, so I was surprised by this.)

[thorn bane]

as i said that has throughput issues if you provide more than a belt can carry

lets say you use mk2s, provide 2x 120 and want 120 on the right
wouldnt it end up like this?

[warm blade]

If you keep my setup you have IN 1 as priority input as well ( it gets returned on split if out 1 is full)

[thorn bane]

its not perfect prio though its only 75%:25%

[warm blade]

that one left connecting belt must be fastest for it to work (https://imgur.com/a/kjsBd3S)

[thorn bane]

but the merger will always pull 50/50 from both inputs

[warm blade]

Yes puts it on 2x track the left one and splits it immidiately

[thorn bane]

so both inputs get used

[warm blade]

as long as outflow on High + low Out can saturate Input 1 input 1 flows always

[pastel obsidian]

in what situation would you use one of these?

[thorn bane]

you mean like this right ?
#math-and-meta message
but thats only working 75% of the time
or am i missing something

[true junco]

In my experiance... whenever I have created a problem for myself that I dont need to have... 😆

[thorn bane]

prioritize wet concrete over fresh concrete to use up water
use up silica from alu over fresh silica so alu doesnt clog
use up recycled dark matter crystals over fresh ones

[daring wing]

OMG I LOVE THIS

[pastel obsidian]

wouldn't you have just have a manifold that has wet concrete at the start and normal concrete at the end?

[warm blade]

I dontthink i understand you graph correctly because it assumes ideal splits. My setup adds "virtual" belt.
as long as In1 belt + In 2 Belt speed is lower or equal to that left connecting belt In 1 is not impeaded Hi prio and and you have High prio Out as bonus as well

Lieke my Junction is not produing any impedance on flow

[pastel obsidian]

you could make the first 3 refineries take limestone and water from excess aluminum and the ones at the end take water from a pump?

[warm blade]

you may have lower outflow than In 1 but that is not to blame on my juncition 😄

[thorn bane]

well it only makes sense if you provide more than you output right?
so if you block high prio output
and then the other output will limit it to 120/min
and that then transfers to the section you mentioned

[thorn bane]

well its 120 in1 and 120 out

[median void]

Question. I can use pumps to restrict fluid flow, right? Or am I doing something wrong here?

[pastel obsidian]

restrict?

[fierce scarab]

pumps dont restrict or aid flow, they just give headlift i think

[median void]

...frick

[fierce scarab]

if you want to restrict flow use valves

[pastel obsidian]

what are you trying to do?

[median void]

Yeah, but I wanna restrict flow using a power switch. Ideally a smart one

[thorn bane]

well if you just use a merger then it will take 50% fresh 50% recycled
so that only works for setups where the recycled is less than the fresh

[warm blade]

just upgrade outflow belt ?

[pastel obsidian]

you could make a 20 meter high pipe and attach it to a pump

[median void]

That's janky but works, true

[thorn bane]

but providing 240 and outputing 240 is not a "priority" system? thats just a merger
to have any sense of priority you need to restrict it

you are right for flows of output > input1 *75%
but only up to 75%

[pastel obsidian]

manifolds priorities machines that are earlier in the belt then ones than are later

[thorn bane]

not sure i understand what you mean

[warm blade]

sory i dont get your setup can you write what the problem is In and onutflow on my system ? It has only restreiction IN1+IN2 >= to that left belt between merge and smart split

[thorn bane]

to extend it to >75% to 99.% you can extend it though
like this version:

[thorn bane]

well lets go with 90%
110 input 1
110 input 2
120 output

it will take 90 from input 1 instead of 110

[median void]

Problem solved, thanks again!

[pastel obsidian]

just make sure it works deadlift in pipe networks is like magic

[vapid gorge]

valves also are bad at restricting flow

[warm blade]

120 output on RIght ? - your low prio OUt can be fastest belt

[median void]

The fuel flow over the hill is significantly decreased unless the pump is on, which is exactly what I need

[thorn bane]

doesnt really matter but sure
can do the same with 250/250 in 270 out if you want, or what ever belt you like

[pastel obsidian]

good

[vapid gorge]

you don't need to have it that high if you jsut want a button to shut flow off, an unpowered pump sets head lift to 0 so 2m rise will stop flow

[warm blade]

Ok let me step back for a sec I showed you priority merge, you asked about Priority In - showed you my system has inherent priority on Input 1 - you need to make sure there is enoug outflow
Maybe the meaning of left belt requring to be fastest - is a simple way of me saying - this junction is not Impeding on your trafic intoit as long as that one thig has capacity of both inputs

[thorn bane]

"has capacity of both inputs"
do you mean output > in1+in2 or output > in1?

[warm blade]

I think you are going on it bit wrong- Think of that setup as building call it "Left priority out" with 2 same Ins and 2 same Outs
inner rule (one on my screenshot)

You need different Building: "spend Right IN"
inner rule (Right out needs to be In2+In1 speed)

[vapid gorge]

@cold flower so you're trying to make every part in one spot?

[cold flower]

I have access to just about all the resources, so yes

[nova crater]

Someone who has used train fluid carts! I have some questions lol. Are they any good at it? How does a system look? Would it be smart to process oil for power using them lol. I understand the redundancy of just running the lines. But I want to use the fluid carts and my next project is my fuel plant!

[vapid gorge]

ok so mega factories, in general, are cluster fraks even if you know what you're doing.

which is fine, I go up the tiers by just smooshing things together in one spot and not caring about efficiency, but unless you're planning from the top down, making the factory from scratch? it's not going to make a huge dif what recipes you use

recipes and their alts shine when crafting custom systems that suit your local needs when they are thought out and planned thoroughly

imo just use the base recipe and slap some together

or an alt if you hvae it that looks fun

[cold flower]

Ok, main thing is just trying to figure out how many crystal oscillators etc I want/need to make to have supplies go around

[vapid gorge]

one good trick is to have large buffers at the end of eveyr production so you stack thousands of parts while you go do othe rthings, then it matters much less about how many you have to go around

[prisma kraken]

i'll add that some alt recipes significantly reduce resource utilization, and when you need to build parts in any sort of multitude past what you need for game progression, oft times you'll want to look at the alts

[vapid gorge]

also don't sink stuff, just let it all back up so you have many many parts for new production lines

[ashen girder]

They work fine for liquids, just make sure you have buffers at each platform. Don't try to move gasses/nongasses with trains, though, that doesn't work great at all.

[brisk smelt]

sink the overflow from the resource depots

[cold flower]

yea, I tend to make a storage, and only sink anything that overflows

[vapid gorge]

go smoosh parts together and don't stress about it too much 🙂

bed times for me

[cold flower]

will do, and thanks again

[nova crater]

What does the math look like for them? Better question, If I have say a 600 node of oil, how many carts will I need to transport that?

[brisk smelt]

0.5 carts

[ashen girder]

More like 1 car.

[vapid gorge]

depends on trip time, but often only 1 plaftorm

[brisk smelt]

can't a container/car have 2400 units/min

[ashen girder]

No.

It can't even hit 1200/min.

[brisk smelt]

2x 1200 packaged oil

[ashen girder]

We aren't talking about packaged oil.

[vapid gorge]

they can hold 2400, doesn't mean they can move it per min

[brisk smelt]

fluids should always be packaged, no

[nova crater]

Yeah forget packaged lol

[vapid gorge]

examples of tested buffer systems #design-and-architecture message

#design-and-architecture message

[ashen girder]

Not liquids, not really.

[vapid gorge]

if you use them build them exactly like in the image. Junctions and all

[brisk smelt]

you get 2x throughput, 1200 vs 600 for pipes
correct me if im wrong, but isn't that the optimal choice

[nova crater]

I just want to use them becauase it looks cool lol I know they have been bad i the past

[ashen girder]

You also get to deal with the packages. If you recycle them back to the source, you have twice the logistics for the same overall throughput.

[vapid gorge]

with mk6s you do still get faster throughput but need to carry the containers back. But you can effectively move fluids too if you don't want to mess about with them

[nova crater]

So 600 to one cart, distance is a thing obviously, but generally 1 cart per 600 line?

[ashen girder]

Might be able to get as high as 900 per cart, but I'd assume 600/car, yeah.

[vapid gorge]

unless it's a very long trip. 5min? easy peasy

[nova crater]

So, sorry to press, but this is a fuel plant we are talking about. This does all check out right?

[ashen girder]

I wouldn't do it for power, personally.

[vapid gorge]

sure? doesn't matter what the use if for.

[brisk smelt]

uh, why not build the power right at the node

[ashen girder]

If your signals aren't perfect, a deadlock would shutdown your power.

[nova crater]

lmao

because i want to use them now and thats my next project

[brisk smelt]

try to minimize the number of moving parts in a system

[vapid gorge]

you're free to live life on the edge.

I'd find some nodes that are more convenient and you don't have to move

[nova crater]

dedicated oil line for sure

closed system

[ashen girder]

Also, don't forget that train tracks pass power. 👀

[brisk smelt]

that works

[vapid gorge]

anyway gl with it 🙂

[brisk smelt]

i just recommend using drones for everything in the fuel production line if you've unlocked them, because building a dedicated line is a lot of work lol

[nova crater]

Thank you, I appreciate the info! I just think it would look cool and I have never used them before. So hopefully this works lmai

[thorn bane]

didnt you just say less moving parts lol

[brisk smelt]

hundreds of trains on a global network is definitely more moving parts than a A<->B drone system

[nova crater]

The oil train will be A-B so we good

[brisk smelt]

iirc as of v1.0 drones accept packaged fuel too? so no battery sourcing required

[ashen girder]

It would take multiple hundreds of drones to replace hundreds of trains...

[thorn bane]

sure but i wouldnt want my factory to stop because my drones dont have fuel

[brisk smelt]

if your system has low traffic, with a few buffers you should be fine on a global network

[thorn bane]

that sounds like a lot of moving parts but you do you xD

[thorn bane]

can also use priority switches so the track always has power, but thats extra work

[brisk smelt]

geotherm on the rails

[thorn bane]

that works

if its not connected to the main network

[heavy gust]

Whats the max power consumption for the particle accelerator when i clock it at 250% AND sloop it?
wiki only shows for overclock

[ashen girder]

Multiply the max for OC by 4.

[heavy gust]

ah so its flat 4x

[ashen girder]

For full sloop, yeah.

[heavy gust]

got it, 20158w

[nova crater]

ohhhh really good idea

[heavy gust]

thats a bit more than i expected

[ashen girder]

Fair warning, Quantum Encoders go even higher.

[heavy gust]

no thats fine, bt that point ill have nuclear power

for now im still on diluted fuel

[cursive heron]

it's a design difference. You build satellite factories and use drones to move things around instead of moving raw resources.
If you 'have' to transport oil over a long distance drones are actually better than trains since you can just package it and a drone can carry 54,000 units of oil per trip and bring back empty canisters on the way back

[heavy gust]

wanted to hold off doing nuclear untill i can plan for the tier 9 fuel type

so i dont end up with waste

[ashen girder]

54,000 units?

[cursive heron]

if a factory needs 1200/min of crude oil, one trip of a drone can supply it for 45 minutes

[ashen girder]

I thought Drones could only move 9 stacks?

[cursive heron]

packaged crude oil stacks to 100

[ashen girder]

That's.. 900 units.

[cursive heron]

= 900 packaged crude oil

[nova crater]

every factory I set up this playthrough has power switches and now priority switches. I wired each stage of every factory up to be on its own switch. Might be crazy but that little extra time I spent doing that will save me god forbid.

[ashen girder]

I.. don't understand how you got from 900 oil to 54,000 oil..

[ashen girder]

You'll thank yourself if you ever pop your circuit breakers.

[cursive heron]

my bad, was speaking in terms of /min in packagers

[nova crater]

also the priority switch allows me to turn things off and on remotly. I LOVE EM

I do wish to see a more a more indepth view of how much power is going to each switch though. that would be nice if they added something like that

[ashen girder]

Would love more visible analytics-type things, yeah.

[brisk smelt]

a better solution: build insane amount of power you will never need, circuit will never pop :D

[nova crater]

oh we going hard lol

[cursive heron]

but yeah, drones can easily transport fluids and gasses
and compressed materials, process caterium into pure caterium on site and you only have to transport 600 ingots/min rather than 1200 ore/min

[nova crater]

ahh good point

[cursive heron]

1200 copper into 500 powder etc

[brisk smelt]

isnt copper to powder 1:1

[ashen girder]

Nope.

[thorn bane]

bro i wish

[ashen girder]

6 ingots to 1 powder.

[brisk smelt]

oh right i forgor 💀

[ashen girder]

15 stacks of copper ingots into 1 stack of copper powder. 😂 That feels insane.

Oh, wait, 30 stacks.

Ingots only stack to 100 not 200.

[cursive heron]

6:1
and process copper with pure to get 1ore:2.5ingots

or if iron is near copper node whatever is more convenient

[ashen girder]

Leached. 😄

[thorn bane]

alloy

[cursive heron]

if leached outputs like 2x more than water I would unironically make a packaged sulfuric acid factory

[ashen girder]

110/min vs 37.5/min. 🤷‍♂️

Slightly less efficient.

[cursive heron]

it's slower cycles but pure still beats leached in total output

leached is only 2.44 ingots compared to pures 2.5

[thorn bane]

i wonder if were gonna get a rebalance or if this is just it now until satisfactory 2

[cursive heron]

per ore

[ashen girder]

So.. 0.06 more ingots per ore for 3x the buildings. 😛

[thorn bane]

well you also need to make the acid

[cursive heron]

sulfuric acid is just sulfur and water

[thorn bane]

its refineries though

[cursive heron]

but I don't see why you won't just shove that water into a refinery

with the copper

and not involve another resource

[ashen girder]

1 sulfur refinery can feed 2 leached copper refineries.

[mellow meteor]

Question I want to build a load balanced factory. And I am wondering is it best to start with the machines that will make the final output first and work from there in reversed manner in order to know your layout and underclock or overclock machines /smelters along the way if needed. OR is it best to work from the Miner upwards and overclock or underclock the final machine outputs?

[thorn bane]

so its 2:1 for pure:leeched

[brisk smelt]

work downwards

[ashen girder]

2 leached + 1 sulfur produces as much as 6 pure refineries.

[brisk smelt]

and always round up, dont underclock

[cursive heron]

it's 3 less refineries if you use leached recipe but also slightly less copper

so half the building cost and pay for that with
sulfur

[mellow meteor]

Downwards as final output machines first then the rest ? - >

[brisk smelt]

yes

in fact, id recommend planning your entire playthrough from the top down

if thats ur style

[mellow meteor]

How do I know how many final output machines I can build if I have access to for example 8 smelters, just laydown one setup and multiply and see whats possible?

[latent ocean]

Starting on fluid trains. Are they worth it? Or packaging it is better?. I have two pipes 600m3 feeding one wagon. I want the output at destination to be same. Let's say whole train trip takes 2 minutes. Is there any common ratio or math I can use here?

[brisk smelt]

satisfactory tools

[cursive heron]

you need 5 units of sulfur for every 9 units of copper ore
and there's 3x more copper than there is sulfur

[brisk smelt]

package nitrogen always

[ashen girder]

Ah, yes, the good old WP argument.

[warm blade]

@thorn bane So this kind of thing is too dirty in terms of Priority IN ? you cna erxtend as much as much priority you want

[thorn bane]

well youre not using all of it
just build a factory close to sulfur

[brisk smelt]

whatt the fuck

there is no such thing as vip for belts

just sink overflow

[cursive heron]

is this a priority merger

[thorn bane]

yes that works
i prefer my design but yes
#math-and-meta message bottom right "prio merge"

[mellow meteor]

Thanks man, sorry for all these questions. I like to loadbalance stuff but seems like it can get very complicated for things like Smart plating already?

or is that just dumb to do it

[cursive heron]

you need more mergers

[brisk smelt]

smart plating isnt very complicated

its like 5 steps

[thorn bane]

depends on the input

[mellow meteor]

im new so everything is complicated but yes I can see your point

[brisk smelt]

dont loadbalance, always manifolds

[mellow meteor]

thanks @brisk smelt so loadbalance is just only usefull for nuclear I imagine

[brisk smelt]

yes

[mellow meteor]

or aesthetics ?

[brisk smelt]

low throughput ,60 and under

[nova crater]

Anyone here ever do a biofuel gen set up? always wanted too, and with sloops I be this would be powerful

[brisk smelt]

i mean sure, lots of work though

[thorn bane]

this works for output > prio input * 1/3^3 = 0.037
so for example with output is 100/min and prio input is >4/min then its a perfect priority merger and the line never stutters

[warm blade]

Just if you want to force "it downt the miidle" harder as going 1:3 instead of 1:2

[thorn bane]

yes but you can just build more mergers
but ye both work

[cursive heron]

load balancing is useful when you're dealing with multiple lines of belts that have varying throughput at near belt capacity that have to go to multiple lines of belts with also varying inputs
but early most things can be solved with manifolds.

[warm blade]

also slowest left IN belt as you can 😄

[thorn bane]

output priority > balancing

[mellow meteor]

thanks Rai makes sense

[brisk smelt]

or just do a load distributor, no need to balance

[cursive heron]

isn't a load distributor a balancer

[prisma kraken]

load balancers have another property too, and it is useful for trains, all input lines are drained at the same rate

[cursive heron]

that was kinda what I was referring to

[brisk smelt]

not really, it takes n lines of input and gives n lines of output

it just makes the throughput thr same

[cursive heron]

so a balancer

[thorn bane]

so wtf is a balancer lul

[brisk smelt]

a balancer is like splitting a belt into 10

equal parts

[cursive heron]

so 10(n) line output from x(n) line input

... a load distributor balancer

[brisk smelt]

sort of

[cursive heron]

they're the same thing

[prisma kraken]

balancers are where you take each input line and split a part of it for each output line and then merge the ouput fragments together, so a (proportionally) equal fraction of every input line goes to each output

[warm blade]

Also speaking about balancing it looks to me 1.0 ahs a bug - if you have sparse input to big container then the out is always from last port when last stack run out, it is not changing Out ports so it is not balancing - so you end up on stuck top or stuck bottom on sparse In

[thorn bane]

but ye balancers suck
this scales way better with size

[cursive heron]

thats what a load balancer does, it distributes load

[ashen girder]

n-to-n vs 1-to-n.

[cursive heron]

1 to n is still n to n

[ashen girder]

Pedantry sure is fun, huh.

[brisk smelt]

but n to n isnt necessarily 1 to n

[thorn bane]

for small values of n

[prisma kraken]

the compressor pictured is actually the same schematic as a 2:2 balancer, but you'd just use a normal splitter instead of smart one

[cursive heron]

do ya'll just hate the word load balancer so you call it load distributor when they do the same thing

[ashen girder]

They do slightly different things.

[thorn bane]

yup
except it scales n² instead of n
try building a 10x10 balancer

[prisma kraken]

i shorted it to 'balancer'

[brisk smelt]

i refer to n to n as distributor, n to m where m>n as a balancer

[thorn bane]

dont think anyone else does that 🤷

[cursive heron]

I'm moving from this

[wind spade]

n:n is just n belts

[thorn bane]

oookaaay greeny
n:m for some n,m in natural numbers

[prisma kraken]

my taxonomy of manifolds really falls into three categorys: any manifold with any sort of property, balanced splitters, and balancers

[warm blade]

I thought N:N balancers are simple with big containers, there seems to be now just small bug with them - on sparse input they get stuck

[prisma kraken]

i draw the distinction because balancers and balanced splitters have special properties, but they're all just manifolds

[thorn bane]

their output priority is random
its always been like that
but they are only 2:2 not n:n

[warm blade]

it is not random it has bug it gets stuck on last item from last stack

[cursive heron]

whether or not they come out of the top or bottom is random

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but if you're pushing x/min into a container and only pulling fractions of the x out at fixed rates, containers will work fine

they just need to get full enough to do the job right

[warm blade]

i know it is a bug because i am puting dimensional uploads on top of container connected with and they never get items if input is sparse and container is empty, i needed to use spliter on container inputs to avoid this for now

like 0

[wind spade]

the priority is semi-random and can also randomly change

[warm blade]

noo i had 0 upload for hours

if the container has stack it gets split

[prisma kraken]

really it comes down to what is in the container when the game comes around to seeing if something needs to be sent out a belt

[warm blade]

if it is 1 item it is sticking to last output

there is where that "random" comes from

[prisma kraken]

it's deterministic, but you don't have enough view into the timing to see the determinism

[ashen girder]

Nothing is truly "random" in this game. It's just practically random.

Might even say.. pseudo random. 👀

[warm blade]

it is not random because I havent recevied 1 item for over an Hours to various dimensional uploads

others with empty containers were geting thigs constantly

[thorn bane]

but there is items in the storage?
strange

[warm blade]

because they were "stuck" and i was spending

[worldly agate]

If I need a hand supply, I always use a splitter into a chest, or I send it to a central storage (which also has uploaders on the items I need often). Midline storage only really works if I'm getting more in than I need, so the storage fills up.

[warm blade]

I'm creting setup and steps, I havent seen it on QA so i post it there give me a minute

[nova crater]

These work, but not always. I had two belts that were carrying 265 rubber, I needed to make a 480 line of rubber. So I used a smart splitter to overflow a 50 belt and transfer the rest with a merger onto that other 265 belt to make 480. However, it was backing up the 480 line before the merger and causing issues with my refineries, and beyond. I don't understand that math, but if both lines were 270 then the system would have flowed smoothly. The 265 put a studder in the line. I solved this by putting a sink before the merger

[cloud tree]

So as i would like to make rocketfuel for my drones im wondering if the "Nitro Rocket Fuel" recipe is good? i dont have partical enrichement unlocked yet i still have tobuild loads of factories but i would like to have the drones up and running

[hoary lantern]

That's a good recipe, yes

[warm blade]

Container Bug - Output is sticky to last one - sparse input exits always from same hole
Simple demo: put one item in loop and watch

[ashen girder]

So if it backs up to a stack of 2 inside, does it switch outputs?

[warm blade]

y

[ashen girder]

So, they're predictable as long as your line is slow enough to never back up.

Does it behave the same way with the top input?

[thorn bane]

rocket fuel at:
it kinda sucks
more nitrogen, more sulfur, no easy way to recycle the compacted coal

[prisma kraken]

its easy to get rid of, just burn it in coal gens

[thorn bane]

well ye or sink but that kinda sucks

[prisma kraken]

or sink it

[warm blade]

y it is just bug in my opinion they should alter as splitters and mergers (they do just not for 1st item bug is they alter on second item) : if you feel same: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/670958d5ddb9d97e071f9810

[snow maple]

my setup cycles the cc back into turbo heavy fuel to make default rocket fuel

[ashen girder]

I mean, as far as I'm aware they've always worked that way. 🤷‍♂️

[cloud tree]

i do not have acces to nitric acid yet, thats gonna take a while too

so for temporarily method it can still be good, to make some fuel for drones?

[snow maple]

it's good as long as you have spare sulfur, just send the cc into coal gens or sink

[thorn bane]

wait did they move the milestones? before you unlocked nitric acid and nitrogen at the same time
but i guess not anymore?
ye i guess until you research particle enrichment its fine

[snow maple]

nitric has always been end of t8, frustrating when my preferred recipe for fused frames is the nitric one

[cloud tree]

yeh i need to build WAY more factories until i can unlock partical enrichment, i already rushed a lot now imo, the only real factory i have is 50 computers p/m and basic steel iron copper haha

dont even have HMF etc

oh yeh and got alum sheets for betls

[snow maple]

to be fair, one full oc/slooped machine hand fed from containers works wonders, i brute forced through t8 tech with just a few of those

[thorn bane]

oh ye youre right
i guess im just misremembering
actually ye same with turbo pressure motor

[cloud tree]

thats what ivebeen doing haha

So how about i dont make rocketfuel for the drones and just fuel them with some other type? or is that bad

[snow maple]

lizard doggos can also give milestone parts too, farm them if you don't want to grind those parts as hard

kinda luck of the draw but can be a saving grace if you don't want to semi-auto fmfs or turbo motor

[snow maple]

rocket fuel is i think 2nd best drone fuel, no reason to avoid it. maybe just rebuild it down the line with nitric recipe

[vital tundra]

can a pioneer with more braincells than i have explain the best way to go about this recycling setup?

this is the part i have issues conceptualizing, how to set up the feedback loop

[cloud tree]

allright because otheriwse im doing a temp other fuel one that im gonna take apart too

[cloud tree]

i might actually take the effort to just unlock the milestone by crafting the materials

[cloud tree]

ive never been this fr in the game so everything is a bit overwhelming

and i feel like logistics is kinda a hassle so would like some drone access

[snow maple]

drones are a bit expensive but such a godsend

[cloud tree]

yeh and than i can use my trains for the bulk, but the drones for just smaller materials, also just cool doing something new (:

[vital tundra]

Is it viable to just use a manifold for this and ignore the exact numbers? let it balance itself out? is my gross production going to be producing 3066.67 rubber and 3333.33 plastic?

[snow maple]

say you have 4 of each recycling refinery, producing 240 p and r each and consuming 120. you would route 2 plastic refs output to the 4 rubber refs input, and vice versa. the other two are your output.

[pastel obsidian]

Congratulations for getting this far

[snow maple]

you'll run into belt limits with numbers that high, but the theory is sound

[cloud tree]

how about the turbo heavy fuel recipe?

[snow maple]

also from prior experience, oil recycling setups are finicky if you build them from the tools flowchart, id recommend messing around with them to understand how they work before you build one

[snow maple]

i like it, it's not as efficient resource wise as other alts but much less space and power required, also cleaner numbers

[vital tundra]

ohh okay so rounding up for the plastics, id have 28 feeding into the recycled rubber and 28 for output? and 26/26 for the rubber side?

wait no

[lethal glacier]

should i use nitro rocket fuel or the normal recipe? ( blue crater area )

[vital tundra]

cuz my output and my recycle numbers arent even grrr

[cloud tree]

ok tvm

[snow maple]

it would be 26/30 and 28/24 because you have more plas refs than rub

[vital tundra]

right right

okay that makes way more sense

[snow maple]

nitro is less complex but uses more sulfur, if you have plenty of sulfur i say do nitro

[magic island]

one approach is to build a line of alternating plastic/rubber refineries facing opposite directions. on one side, you have your plastic manifold, which merges in all the plastic output and smart-splits it into all the plastic inputs it passes. on the opposite side, same thing for the rubber.

(note that at the scale you're working at, you'll need to split this setup into at least 3 duplicate manifolds so no one belt gets overloaded)

[vital tundra]

oh god smart splitting

[lethal glacier]

i have a node of each that i can transform ( 1 pure 1 normal 1 impure that dont require a long distance transport

[vital tundra]

that would be a line of 108 refineries 😭

[snow maple]

if you don't need that sulfur elsewhere then go for it

[wind spade]

smart splitter, priority split to next recycling step, overflow to output

[vital tundra]

honestly at this scale im probably gonna slug to 200

[magic island]

well, you'd absolutely have to split it up, since the total plastic & rubber in the system are both larger amounts than your final 1800 output (and that already needs 2+ belts each)

[snow maple]

3 lines of 36 if im reading this correctly

[magic island]

assuming Mk6 belts, yeah

[thorn bane]

my setup for recycled plubber

[rigid pewter]

there is 4920 bauxite in the map shoud i turn all it to aluminum or i might need some in the future ?

[ashen girder]

Only other use for it is to turn it into Uranium, I think.

[magic island]

bauxite only makes aluminum unless you convert it, and you only want to do that if you have a very specific wacky map-consuming plan

[ashen girder]

Or profound laziness.

[spare jolt]

Or you're going for max nuclear

[thorn bane]

so youre saying iron->uranium?

[rigid pewter]

so i turn all of to aluminum and if i need some in the future i overclock some om the miners

[ashen girder]

SAM can't be worth that much right? 😁

[magic island]

I never used conversion recipes because fetching more SAM was always at least as much of a pain as fetching the actual resource I wanted

[spare jolt]

Technically, you can convert any solid raw mineral into any other solid raw material by chaining converters, but I'm sure there are better uses for oh-so limited SAM

[ashen girder]

Honestly, I think the transmutation recipes were a mistake. 👀

[thorn bane]

limestone->iron->coal->sulfur->limestone->iron...
sam deleter goes brrr

[magic island]

they'd be broken if they didn't need SAM, but they're not worth it with the SAM requirement

[thorn bane]

its nice for yall "i only use local resources" guys

[magic island]

nah, because like I said, the SAM is usually even more inconvenient to get locally than the real thing you want

[ashen girder]

SAM is good for AI Expansion Servers and not much else.

And belts, I guess. 😂

Oh, and APMs if you're of that sort.

[thorn bane]

ficsonium? warp drives?

[ashen girder]

FFR's a waste of effort and BWDs don't need ongoing SAM inputs.

[thorn bane]

wait what?

[ashen girder]

FFR's a waste of effort: it's better to use that SAM to convert bauxite to uranium, make UFRs and sink the PFRs.

[amber jacinth]

As useful as they appear, I can't see many people actually using them

[thorn bane]

sorry i meant the BWD part
i thougth they cost DMR?

[ashen girder]

DMR is functionally infinite.

[thorn bane]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

[magic island]

if you build the project assembly parts in tandem, you can pretty easily tune the whole setup to be DMR neutral

[ashen girder]

Superposition Oscillators are DMR-positive by default.

And if you use Dark Matter Trap, it's even more positive.

Power Shards can also produce a positive DMR feedback loop.

By blending Dark Matter Trap and Dark Matter Crystallization, you should be able to make any DMC-using factory DMR neutral.

[spare jolt]

I didn't get to T9 yet but I don't think you need as much SAM as people say here. If you're playing solo and don't build factories like 20000 ingots/second, you usually need 30/minute or so of each building ingredient (if you store them in a container before putting into your DD ofc)

So maybe you can spare some SAM for conversion into whatever

[ashen girder]

Yeah, like Bexy said: you can, it's just more annoying to get SAM to where you would need it than just find another node of what you actually need.

[thorn bane]

so youre only using it for trigons?

[ashen girder]

And Fluctuators, yeah.

[spare jolt]

Sone late game buildings require fluctuators though

[magic island]

And as long as there are things that absolutely require SAM (Trigons, Fluctuators), there's an opportunity cost in using it for conversions instead

[ashen girder]

I have one node tapped for fluctuators, one node tapped for trigons.

[thorn bane]

i had like 3 in the end but reanimated on site and merged
but i feel like a decent amount of that was going into DMR...
well fluctuators are only for buildings so they kinda dont count? and fuck using sloops not for production increase

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I was exclusively using dark matter trap.

So I never needed to add more SAM to the system.

If anything, I was actually pulling dark matter crystals out routinely.

(Too lazy to overflow it.)

[cloud tree]

is this a good start for the drones? also any advice where on the map i should place this "temporary factory"

[magic island]

Making 5 APMs (the amount needed to boost one augmenter) requires 600 SAM for fluctuators alone. flat requirement due to the lack of alts

[warm blade]

it is not random, it is just sticky for 1 item , second item swaps output - all other things like splitters and mergers are swapping out on first item https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/670958d5ddb9d97e071f9810

[ashen girder]

Gonna blow your mind when you discover that "random" numbers aren't actually random. 😮

[rigid pewter]

4920 bauxite turns into 4100 aluminum ingot with the default and pure aluminim recipes and i just use the byproduct silica

is 4100 aluminum enugh or i need to use some quartz and make silica for more production ?

[thorn bane]

bro 1200 alu is enough to complete the game

[rigid pewter]

ok 😂 so i dont need more silica

[ashen girder]

Build as much as you need for your factory.

[rigid pewter]

i dont know how much i need actually i just want to make some aluminum

[magic island]

always overclock your miners btw. there's 12300 bauxite on the map

[ashen girder]

Then yeah, that's plenty. 😛

[rigid pewter]

i want to make as much as i can and ship it to my future factories

[magic island]

just do it one node at a time.

at the time you unlock bauxite, you only have Mk4 belts, so pick a handy node and set up a factory that processes that much. get comfy with how alu production works, because it has some quirks that could jam up your first attempt. Expand later as needed

[spare jolt]

I like this place in Lake Forest - it has coal, sulfur, water and oil in one place, but the N2 gas is pretty far on South

Like, this far

[lethal glacier]

does the world provide enough sulfur to use 2550 oil for rocket fuel power plants :)?

[spare jolt]

Yea this one's good as well, but it's pretty far unless you spawned in Dune desert or Grass fields

[amber jacinth]

Yes

I'm using 2550 oil for rocket fuel, and am hitting 2325 sulfur

[lethal glacier]

how ?

[thorn bane]

WHY

[lethal glacier]

i assume you are using both recipes right?

[amber jacinth]

Yeh, mix of both

[spare jolt]

If I were you I'd use either of those but not both. Makes it simpler to reach round numbers

[magic island]

technically you can "use up" 2550 oil to make rocket fuel with as little as 798 Sulfur

(no guarantees about being satisfied with the AMOUNT of Rocket Fuel you get)

[amber jacinth]

I'm like 90% done this build, I ain't changing it now 😛

[cloud tree]

thx for replies guys, i moved here, all the way north east

[thorn bane]

wait why so much def. TF compared to blend?

[spare jolt]

Don't get me wrong, I use mixed recipes, but mostly only if they make neat ratios - I prefer to evade fractions like 0.8888889 or 0.41666667 when possible

[magic island]

i dont know, I just reduced the amount of sulfur as far as possible while still consuming all the oil

[thorn bane]

wops wrong reply meant @amber jacinth

[ashen girder]

"Oh shit, a fraction! Evasive maneuvers!"

[thorn bane]

you have to use def. to recycle the compacted coal but it kinda sucks so blend is way better
but id only use enough for the compacted coal and not make extra coal?

[amber jacinth]

Without it I could only do 6400 rocket given the resource constraints

[spare jolt]

I just said - I use mixed recipes, but even if I get some excess Compacted coal, I can always sink it, since I always try to have a spare sink when I deal with fluids so nothing would clog

[edgy leaf]

@vapid gorge do u think this here will work?output is through the bottom of the junction

[cloud tree]

okey ive got no idea how to transport all of those resources to one place, the oil is far down, sulfur super high up and nitro middle height and also behind a mountain xd

[ashen girder]

Easier to move solids and gasses to liquids than the other way around.

[thorn bane]

also lots of space in the ocean

[cloud tree]

but i need aluminum tanks to move the gasses right?
\

[spare jolt]

No

[thorn bane]

just a long pipe

[ashen girder]

Pipes work fine.

[spare jolt]

Just pipes without the pumps

[cloud tree]

so tyhats why its easier? because it eliminates the pumps?

[ashen girder]

Yeep.

[cloud tree]

you guys dont midn to build like long pipes and shit?

[thorn bane]

pipes for days

[ashen girder]

You said "up" and "down". You didn't say how long. 😛

[spare jolt]

Yea, gases don't need pumps at all

[cloud tree]

its ehh, a bit bigger than i expected it to be xd

[ashen girder]

If it's like train-distance, then I'd package it and haul the nitrogen that way.

[cloud tree]

so i can pack and unpack use the same tanks? so i could just make tanks far away

might have to do that

[ashen girder]

Yep. 4:1 nitrogen to packaged nitrogen.

[cloud tree]

thx for the ideas

[spare jolt]

But say for tractor you may need two different stations, one for packaged gas unload and one for empty tanks load

afaik the same station can't do both

[thorn bane]

ah found it
#screenshots message
long pipes ❤️

[cloud tree]

yeh same for trains

[ashen girder]

Yeah, drones are the only ones that can pick up and drop off.

[cloud tree]

HEY thats where im getting it from hahaha

[ashen girder]

Casual 2km long pipeline. 😂

[cloud tree]

this is like hard border right? i cant build anything past the white line i assume

[spare jolt]

You can

But go too far and you'll get damaged or may even die

[cloud tree]

ahhh ok

[ashen girder]

This was posted earlier on reddit. Most accurate one I've seen so far.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1g1158m/updated_10_world_border_map_with_fake_water_zone/

[cloud tree]

ahhh okey that looks perfect for my track to go around makes it MUCH easier

ill just houl everything to the oil

and use the train for the coal and nitro

sulfur with belt vertically going down in a tower or so

[edgy leaf]

tug do u thnk thisll work?

[ashen girder]

I dunno. I thought you had trouble with the buffers emptying too fast?

[edgy leaf]

COD told me to try it

[edgy leaf]

thats what i thought, maybe i was wrong

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I tend to try not to be in the same conversations as COD. 😂

[edgy leaf]

well, the design is from sevrahn

cod just told me to try it

[ashen girder]

Didn't Sev's have a pump on it?

[edgy leaf]

a pump pumping into it, that one was for loading

[ashen girder]

Ah. I'd still want a pump on that one I think.

[edgy leaf]

where tho

[ashen girder]

The bottom straight bit.

[edgy leaf]

there is a pump further down the pipe

[edgy leaf]

hm.. ill try that

[ashen girder]

How often are trains arriving at this station?

[edgy leaf]

every 110 seconds i think

holy fuck i hate pumps wtf

[ashen girder]

So, 27.08 seconds means you need to be able to hold.. 270.8 items?

[edgy leaf]

it seems to be running so much better now after i placed a pump here

[ashen girder]

I swear, work pressure's way more important than anyone wants to think about.

[edgy leaf]

yep, 270.8 fluid

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I think that should be fine for volume then. It'll drain while unloading, then refill until it gets back up to cap.

The setup I had had buffer -> pump for each output, combined at a junction.

[edgy leaf]

the jesus mk2 pump was supposed to just be a silly joke...

wtf

it was consistently above 600?

[thorn bane]

it drains from both inputs

[ashen girder]

Don't forget this beauty.

That thing pegs the output pipe at 600.

[edgy leaf]

heresy. mcgalleon would crucify you

[edgy leaf]

yea but the one output was supposed to be static

[ashen girder]

Considering it's feeding 200 recycled into 600 fresh and not backing up, he might canonize me too. 😛

[edgy leaf]

what the fuck why did adding that pump make it work

its not even a bottomfeeding thing because it goes into ANOTHER pump before hitting the bottomfeed

[ashen girder]

Wish I could give you a useful reasoning.

My thing works because it can absorb up to 1200/min from two inputs.

And then my ghetto VIP with the white junction there.

[thorn bane]

i swear this is my current understanding of pipes

[edgy leaf]

it goes from there down and into another pump. the one with the pump at the train station does perfect 600 the other one is often under 500

[edgy leaf]

this has been my current understanding of pipes for like 2 years now

[ashen girder]

I understand some of the rudimentary pieces, like two inputs above 600 clash and can cause less than 600 to output if there's only one exit.

I'm still not really sure why or how junctions can behave as VIPs just by existing.

But it's so consistent at this point I just have to accept it I think.

[proper laurel]

Just wanted to check if my math is right.
A pure iron node at full tilt with a Mk.3 at full overclocking makes 1200/minute.
That 1200/minute going into refineries with the pure iron alternate gets you 1200/35=34.285714
That 34.285714*65/min (the output of the pure ingots) is 2228.57141/minute. And augment that with sloops gets you just a hair over 4457 a minute.
This napkin math look right?

[ashen girder]

The other pump is fluttering still?

I would try and add a pump between the buffer and the junction then.

[proper laurel]

I'm not insane to do it but I want to see if that's the theoretical limit of a pure node