math-and-meta

[thorn bane]

you can but you dont have to because once the 3 Reinforced plate assemblers are full, they will only take in 90 plates/min limiting the iron ingots to 135 as well

[cedar ivy]

It reduces power usage by a bit, but that constructor still would get backed up if you don't use more than the output from 4.5 machines

[thorn bane]

i personally never underclock but it helps reach the equilibrium faster

[thorn bane]

very minor

[cedar ivy]

yes very minor, pointless on a constructor

[thorn bane]

its an extra 0.4 MW

[shrewd yacht]

some want everything to be split and merged to accurate numbers from the start

[thorn bane]

well it still has to fill up the 4.5

and if you have to wait anyway 🤷

[cedar ivy]

Let's not overcomplicate this for the new player, guys.

[shrewd yacht]

yep... as long as belt capacity is there the rest doesn't matter, it will eventually balance out

[thorn bane]

underclcoking is fake news from big factory
you dont need underclocking to beat the game
all my homies hate underclocking

[ashen girder]

5 constructors at 100% for 4.5x time is 22.5MW. 4 constructors at 100% and 1 at 50% is 21.6MW. 5 constructors at 90% is 17.40MW.

[shrewd yacht]

I often don't even care about out vs in and set up based on belt capacity

if I run out I add more

[thorn bane]

that sounds wrong

[ashen girder]

Constructors are 4MW right?

[cedar ivy]

exponential power cost is weird like that.

[shrewd yacht]

only time I need to worry is when backfeeding a byproduct or for fuel based power to run and not get glogged up

[ashen girder]

Yeah, something is off about that. One sec.

[thorn bane]

5 constructors at 100% 4.5x time is 4.5 * 4 = 18
4 consturctors is 16 1 at 50% is 1.5 for 17.5

[shrewd yacht]

it is better to underclock more than just one at 50%

the gains for the first few % is higher

or reduction in power consumption if you will

[ashen girder]

Ah, yeah, I can't math for shit.

[thorn bane]

yes it saves 1% of a coal gen

[ashen girder]

18MW for 4.5, 17.6MW for 400% + 50%, 17.4MW for 5x 90%.

[shrewd yacht]

for the early stuff its not a lot, but once you got hundreds of refineries and whatnot it adds up

[ashen girder]

I added an extra machine in the ones that were over 20. 😂

[fringe wren]

looks like this is actually gonna happen today

[thorn bane]

well no because if you have hundreds of renineries then 99% of them are at 100% and only few are at 50% of what ever

[ashen girder]

If you underclock all of them, you can copy and paste the setting and you save more power.

[thorn bane]

but underclocking to 99.5% is not gonna save that much power

[sudden hornet]

The effort to screw around with underclocks on hundreds of refineries adds up faster than tapping yet another oil well for power

[shrewd yacht]

depends... my rocket fuel setup called for 330 HOR so I set up 10 at 33 each isntead of 9 at 100% and one at like 33% or something

[ashen girder]

How many refineries we talking?

[thorn bane]

yes
you dont need to do that

[ashen girder]

Hoverpack and spamming Ctrl+V is definitely not more work than tapping another oil well. 😛

[shrewd yacht]

10 refineries reduced a bit uses less power than 9 at 100% and one very low

[rose nacelle]

which is better for earlygame
havent played this game in a few years and i assume the meta is different now even if i remembered

[thorn bane]

yes by 0.0001% of 1 fuel generator

[fringe pawn]

Underclocking is mostly for convenience for matching up production numbers. Underclocking for power saving starts with things like particle accelerators.

[shrewd yacht]

way more than that tbh

[sudden hornet]

I spent two days building a 150GW nuke system and then forgot all about "power consumption" for the rest of my playthrough 😄

[shrewd yacht]

I'm not in the game so can't remember what % refinery run at to produce 33 HOR but its saving several MW each IIRC

[cedar ivy]

oh yeah i can throw 8x particle accelerators at a problem to make it cost less 😄

[thorn bane]

@ashen girder wanna do the math? i cba

[sudden hornet]

Stitched Iron Plate! Screws are the worst intermediate product in the game

[rose nacelle]

alright

[thorn bane]

both are nice though

[ashen girder]

9x100% and 1x90%?

vs 10x99%?

[sudden hornet]

Iron Wire is a time saver if you just want some wire in your ad-hoc build without planning a special location near copper

[orchid pond]

iron wire is great in any build that only uses copper for wire

[shrewd yacht]

saves 6.7MW on each refinery at 82.5%

[ashen girder]

How many refineries?

[cedar ivy]

iron wire is a time waster if you accidentally believe copper is worth lots more than iron and want to minimize "weighted points", and forget that setting up 50 machines takes time too

[shrewd yacht]

a bit more than 0.0001% of a fuel generator that does 250MW

basically saving around 60MW in total

[ashen girder]

How many refineries..

[sudden hornet]

I jacked up Machine cost in factoriolab to 1000 for that precise reason

[shrewd yacht]

10 doing HOR and producing 330/min

difference in 9 at 100% and one underclocked or all 10 doing even 33/min

sorry that is 7.3333

not 10

[shrewd yacht]

err... they do 40 per minute so forget that

so 8 at 100% and one at 25%

[fringe pawn]

For me iron wire is about making a stitched RIP blueprint that just takes iron ingots and spits out RIPs.

[cedar ivy]

Okay Factoriolab is great 😄

[ashen girder]

My math says..
10 at 100% with 82.5% efficiency is 247.5MW.
8 at 100% and 1 at 25% is 244.80MW.
10 at 82.5% is 232.64MW.

[fringe pawn]

I kinda wish the wiki table in the clockspeed section had a 5% clockspeed line. That's probably where I'd draw the line for particle accelerators and encoders.

[ashen girder]

basePower * clockSpeed ** 1.321928; 👀

[shrewd yacht]

uh?

[fringe pawn]

What is that, energy per item?

[ashen girder]

The power draw of a machine at a given clock speed.

[shrewd yacht]

what do those * mean?

[fringe pawn]

Energy per item is the metric I want.

[near hatch]

is it worth trying to get commun multiple/denominator in satisfactory or long decimal point value (for clockspeed and item per minute) is ok ? (i hate when a building is not at 100% efficiency)

[ashen girder]

* is multiplication. ** is exponentiation.

[fringe pawn]

Like, I want to produce nuclear pasta, or whatever. And I want to know the energy cost per 1ppm pasta at a given clockspeed.

[ashen girder]

Oh, sorry. basePower * (clockSpeed ** 1.321928) * (cycle time / output count) then.

That's MJ per item not including precursors.

[thorn bane]

wait youre suing ** isntead of ^
get out you filthy python user

[shrewd yacht]

so (base power x speed) x 1.321928

[ashen girder]

1 MJ is 1 MW-S.

[ashen girder]

JS kthxbai

[thorn bane]

that works aswell

[ashen girder]

No, base power x (speed ^ 1.321928)

[shrewd yacht]

well I almost failed math 25 years ago so no idea what you mean there tbh

[fringe pawn]

I wonder if I'll have a second golden nut by the time I finish planning my planetary build XD

[karmic crescent]

how do i setup signaling for this junction right? i cant seem to find out

[glacial halo]

I need to split my rods into 45/min and 60/min

https://gyazo.com/9a7e2b0e26ba8a06f73f8e8d69f3639f

[cedar ivy]

Block signal into the station

path signal out of station back into the intersection, and it's so close you dont want signals between the entrance and exit.

[shrewd yacht]

is that possible to calculate in game?

[near hatch]

i'm not an expert but since you have railways in superposition its quite tricky and probably not possible or it will block the entire section even if a train is at the station

[ashen girder]

Sure? Just hit n and type in 4 * 0.75 ** 1.321928 .

[thorn bane]

so the difference is 2.7MW?
so 0.045/min rocket fuel
HMMMMMMMM

[ashen girder]

More like 12 MW.

[thorn bane]

didnt you say 247.5 - 244.80?

[ashen girder]

That's running 10 of them, at 100% clock speed, 82.5% of the time against 8 of them at 100% clock speed, and one at 25% clock speed.

Compared against 10 at 82.5% clock speed it's 12 or 15MW.

[thorn bane]

ah

so 0.25/min rocket fuel

[ashen girder]

Yeah, spreading underclocking out can save a pretty decent amount of power.

That's 0.25/min in one line in one factory.

[shrewd yacht]

10 refineries is not a lot for many builds

[ashen girder]

And, again, you can copy and paste clock speed. 😂

So it's not exactly difficult to just fly past them pasting.

[thorn bane]

imo it takes longer to do the calculation than to build an extra 0.25 rocket fuel

[shrewd yacht]

so it adds up to hundreds or thousands of MW over the whole factory

[ashen girder]

Bold of you to assume time is fungible between Planning and Playing. 😛

[shrewd yacht]

what is hard with dividing 330 by 10?

even me almost failing math did that instantly

and I already knew the first few % of underclock saves the most

my rocket fuel power plants always go from a full Mk2 pipe

which with fully OCed fuel gens is 57 generators + some extra

this leaves some extra for my jetpack and ammo as well

[thorn bane]

ok heres how i built my rocket fuel
i was even too lazy to delete the extra 2 refineries out of my refinery blueprint
so i have 400% clock speed when i only need 200% something
let alone do the math and underclock them

[ashen girder]

You can also kill fluffy-tailed hogs with nuke nobelisks. Some people like using solutions slightly more appropriate to the scale of the problem. 😉

[thorn bane]

ey man if the nuke works
why bother with small time shit

[ashen girder]

Different people like different things?

[thorn bane]

thats like using mk1/2/3 belts when you have unlocked mk5s
like you can
but why

[cedar ivy]

That's... that's exactly the point he's making? Some people save nukes and use a basher on anything less than a green gas stinger

[ashen girder]

Do you want an honest answer? 😂

[cedar ivy]

Because people choose different things. I still use mk1's where i can get away with them

[thorn bane]

what is wrong with you
different strokes for different folks i guess

[ashen girder]

I can even give you a mechanical reason to do it.

It acts like a makeshift balancer if you use the slowest last-stretch belts you can in a manifold.

[near hatch]

quick question, when it comes to items per minute or clock speed, do you think its worth trying to get common multiples/denominators to keep things clean or is it fine to work with awkward values that are not recurring decimal values ?

[thorn bane]

if it actually consumes 60/min sure
otherwise it makes it even slower to fill the manifold

[ashen girder]

Abso-fuckin'-lutely not worth the effort.

[cedar ivy]

A) because i can get away with it, and no reason to change habit.
B) ^ what Heinous said
C) surplus materials being sunk for points is points.

[ashen girder]

It gets you to 100% faster.

[thorn bane]

preeety sure it doesnt
lemme find the thing

[shrewd yacht]

I use the belt required 90% of the time

[near hatch]

well i know but the building efficiency wont be at 100% right ?

[ashen girder]

If you care about that, you can change the clockspeed.

Just multiply the current clock speed by the efficiency after it's been running stably for awhile. 😂

[shrewd yacht]

so if a machine input is less than 60 it gets a mk1 belt from splitter

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message

[shrewd yacht]

overclocking the production chain for fuel power is kind of silly as it really cuts down the actual gained power

[plush marten]

is rf a gas ?
will i need pump to push it up vertically or not

[shrewd yacht]

seems RF is a gas to me, but not tested as I've never had production below the generators

[thorn bane]

no...

its only 34% more power used

[ashen girder]

100% efficiency. Not full. I don't know why he thinks you need the manifold to be full to hit 100% efficiency.

[shrewd yacht]

of course it does as the OC'ed buildings uses a lot more power

[ashen girder]

RF is a gas, yes.

[thorn bane]

wait but you do if you dont overproduce?

[cedar ivy]

Y'know, those first 3 minutes are arguably the ones i care about the most.

[ashen girder]

a.) you can't fill a manifold to 100% if you overproduce.

b.) I overproduce my ass off. 🤣

[plush marten]

so i will not requir pump rt ?

[thorn bane]

"fill" means all but hte last 1 machine

wait last 2?
idk but same thing

[plain rivet]

last 2

[thorn bane]

depends on if its 1 sided or 2 sided i guess

[ashen girder]

I'd have to sit and think a lot harder about it. 😂 The thing is, you need it 100% so it'll stop splitting the line 50%. With slower belts, it already isn't doing that.

[cedar ivy]

last 2, either in a line or side-by-side, are splitting the remainder 50/50 anyways

[ashen girder]

So having full inputs isn't as important.

[bronze coral]

But they also produce a lot more

It ends up at about ~ 1.34x the power per product

[shrewd yacht]

depends on how hard you OC as well

[cedar ivy]

When the power is the product, why cut into the net output like that?

[amber jacinth]

Build 100x the machines at 1% clock to conserve power

[bronze coral]

Hmm I am just doing some mental math so I could be wrong but I believe you'd get more overall power

though I'd probably agree that overall clocking isn't really worth it unless you need to build an absurd amount of buildings

[thorn bane]

alright 416.66 rocket fuel is 100 gens at 250MW = 25GW
production cost is 1093MW for a net of 23.91GW
or 4.3% used for production
OC to 2.5:
youre now making 62.5GW costing 3661MW for a net of 58.83 GW
or 5% of power used for production

so you use 60% less buildings
but use 5% isntead of 4.3% for the production

yall are mad if you thinkg building 2.5x the buildings is worth that

[bronze coral]

I mean this whole thing is kinda pointless since in the end we can just overclock the resource nodes and nothing else and get the best of both worlds xD

[ashen girder]

How are you making 2.5x power and using 40% less buildings?

[bronze coral]

presumably they are also not ocing the nodes in the first example

[thorn bane]

ye i guess its a weird way of phrasing it
the percent is the same though

[ashen girder]

3.3x power consumption for 2.5x power gain.

[thorn bane]

well 3.3x of the 4.3%

[ashen girder]

That being the power consumption and all, yeah. 😛

[bronze coral]

The power profit goes up even if the percentage goes down

[ashen girder]

I think your percent's a little low, 3.3/2.5 * 4.3 is 5.6.

But yeah. Your overall point makes sense to me.

[plain rivet]

what are you talking about overclocking? all the refineries to save space? your power profit goes down if you do that

[thorn bane]

oh i guess rounding is hard xd

[bronze coral]

Everything, including nodes

[ashen girder]

That sounds better. 😂 3.3x is actually low, too. It's more like 3.35 or some shit.

[bronze coral]

which is why this discussion is pointless xD

[thorn bane]

i just did the 34%

[bronze coral]

going from oced nodes to oced nodes + oced everything else will be pretty bad on your power

[ashen girder]

Fun fact, I beat the entire game front to back with a power grid that never got bigger than 60GW. All of this is pointless. 😉

[thorn bane]

well TLDR its 5.8% power use instead of 4.3%

[plain rivet]

well yeah, if you overclock the nodes too, you are getting more resources. but for any individual unit of resource, if you overclock the intermediate production machines (refineries, blenders) you get less energy per resource

net

[thorn bane]

thing is that the power to make fuel is really really low (4.3%) so it being 34% higher isnt that much in the grand scheme of thing

[bronze coral]

Yeah, if you weren't initially overclocking the nodes as well, which is a strange assumption to make

[shrewd yacht]

but for what space saving?

[thorn bane]

for 60% less buildings

[shrewd yacht]

a blender uses what? 4 blocks?

refinery is 2?

[bronze coral]

I mean less buildings can def be a plus

[shrewd yacht]

so maybe you can fit a couple of fuel gens in that saved space

[thorn bane]

think of it like this
if you build 100 gens
then its 101.5 gens instead if you OC and save 60% of the buildings

[sick girder]

Overclocking generators & resource nodes are the only times I overclock things

[thorn bane]

with tier 9 there is no reason anymore to not just overclock everything

[sick girder]

Well, that and spamming out handfed space elevator parts/slooped protein

[shrewd yacht]

I do it for some of the later stuff because I had spare power

[sick girder]

Energy cost, no?

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile my goofy ass was OCing both an encoder and a particle accelerator on my 60 GW grid.

[thorn bane]

yes but its very little
and with the time you save buidling 2.5x the buildings you can just make more power
its the same argument as underclocking everything to 1%
it saves power but its just not worth the time

[shrewd yacht]

almost tripped my grid trying to sloop and OC an accelerator making pasta 🙂

[ashen girder]

Even slooped the accelerator.

[thorn bane]

sloops are different though
saving 2.5x the sloops is INSANE

[bronze coral]

Again as I said, you're assuming they weren't already oc'ing the node

[ashen girder]

Because ain't nobody got time for nuclear pasta at the default rate.

[plain rivet]

i don't know. i'm stingy. space is infinite and buildings and time to build are a one time cost. having that power infrastructure use more than 3 times as much power than it needs to at 100% (even if it is a small amount of what's being produced) and all those shards would bother me

[thorn bane]

fps isnt infinite

[shrewd yacht]

what is that? 16GW peak on the accelerator?

[ashen girder]

Walls are tho.

[ashen girder]

Something like that, yeah.

Only thing heavier is Encoder that hits like 26GW peak. 🤣

[shrewd yacht]

ouch!

[ashen girder]

My encoder was not slooped.

[shrewd yacht]

didn't try it on those yet heh

[tender nest]

me after turning on vulkan on my igpu and finally running the game in 60 fps:

[shrewd yacht]

the accelerator scared me

[thorn bane]

imo you can just charge power storages, do the 100 products and then delete it again though

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I was running on stored power near the end of phase 5.

[thorn bane]

sounds like your factory isnt big enough yet

[plain rivet]

i can't make myself design factories around meta limitations of my computer hardware. if I run into fps issues, i'll play a different game.

[thorn bane]

ye i get that
i personally just value building 2.5x less buildings very high since it means i can do other stuff
but thats just personal preference

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile, I sit here and stare at 6 refineries going for hours on end. 🤔 We are not the same. 🤣

[thorn bane]

i get low fps 60hours into the game and just stop and troll on discord instead xd

[ashen girder]

That tracks.

I'm just doing Science with pipes.

[thorn bane]

i remember testing different alu setups
that was fun

[ashen girder]

Yeah, pretty much what I've been doing.

On the one hand: I think I've successfully reinvented the VIP. On the other hand: it's soul-shattering.

[thorn bane]

hahaha

[sick girder]

What do people think about the Quartz Purification recipe? Main use case etc.?

[ashen girder]

Great if you have nitric acid already and need a buttload of silica and quartz.

I don't think I'd set up nitric acid for it itself, but as part of a factory using it otherwise it'd be good IMO.

[cedar ivy]

Nitric is a pretty easy, low-volume addition to tack onto nitrogen production, so i like the extra output from it.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I could see it if you're already pulling in nitrogen.

But if you're making like an oscillator factory without any nitrogen at all.. ehhhh.

[cedar ivy]

or, have an easy time of exporting nitric acid from an existing nitrogen station

[ashen girder]

Let's not get crazy now. 🤣

[cedar ivy]

that was one additional train stop, and a blender and a source of iron plates

on the factory that's out in the middle of nowhere with all sorts of space

[ashen girder]

How are you gonna find iron though. D:

[cedar ivy]

Long iron plate belt. XD

iron's everywhere

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that was meant to be a joke. 👀 😂

Do you send nitric acid in packages or just like.. tanker car?

[cedar ivy]

I ended up doing both >.>

i set up tanker car because i'm a train fanatic

but then i needed nitric acid for something else and stuck on a drone port and packager to get it there

[ashen girder]

I support tanker cars.

Except for gasses.

Nitrogen compressing 4:1 is just unreasonable.

[cedar ivy]

the hardest part was needing to fit the extra train station for nitric, at the quartz/silica depot

[next pewter]

hmm, how much do you think it compresses irl? 30 bar vs 120 bar? ;-

[ashen girder]

Couldn't just add a platform?

[cedar ivy]

which i already had space to expand for it. so it wasnt a problem for me.

[ashen girder]

I have no idea. 🤣 I only need 1 bar, personally.

[next pewter]

sayswho? maybe the default is 12 bar or so?

or 30. idk.

[ashen girder]

What're you gonna do with 12 bars?

Not like you can drink at all of them at once.

[fleet cedar]

could it be because we are on a server that we not making the full 600 items a minute like we calculated because the end of our manifold is emptying

we handfilled the machines a bit to get it going

[ashen girder]

Having an open end on a manifold will cause it to never reach 100%, if that's what you're asking.

[fleet cedar]

wdym with open end?

[ashen girder]

If the last splitter is flowing unimpeded into a sink or container.

[fleet cedar]

is it because we also filling the internal inventory of the splitters?

[amber jacinth]

Those will empty out if given the chance, no?

[ashen girder]

That's not going to take a meaningful amount of time to do.

[sick girder]

If you mathed it to where the entire input going on the manifold is intended to go into machines, but have an output at the end of the manifold that goes to a sink, the entire input is never going to the machines

[bronze coral]

What do you mean? You mean in game?

[ashen girder]

I was just making a joke. 🤣

[thorn bane]

how much compression are real life nitrogen tanks?

[ashen girder]

It's completely reasonable that it does that, but it means it's basically never a good idea to transport it on a fluid car.

[bronze coral]

Oh I see, xd

[ashen girder]

Pretty sure a lot more than 4x.

[fleet cedar]

no we have steel and concrete going into foundries so the steel and concrete have no output into a sinki etc

[bronze coral]

No idea, but I calculated ingame and the ingame numbers are surprisingly realistic

[fleet cedar]

but the steel is fine

[bronze coral]

at least I calculated under ideal conditions

not with the true gas law

like the pressure that the nitrogen is at in the plastic containers is pretty close to what a plastic container could actually hold

[fringe pawn]

Quartz purification maximizes quartz worse than pure quartz and maximizes silica worse than cheap silica. Not worth the fiddliness unless you're doing a planetary build when you need to maximize a combination of them.

[ashen girder]

Standard Scuba tank holds 80 cubic feet of air, apparently.

[ashen girder]

You.. can't put nitrogen in plastic containers.

[bronze coral]

Oh wait yeah

then it's actually unrealistic in the other way xD

unless the 2000 litres is not at NTP

Goes to show I haven't actually made it to nitrogen in game lmao

[thorn bane]

well if you use both then its worth

[thorn bane]

wait its alu containers right?

[fringe pawn]

That's a nontrivial amount of complexity being added, including the fact that you don't even get distilled silica automatically. Honestly I'd probably advise pretty much anyone ignore it in HDDs until they have pretty much everything else.

[thorn bane]

huh? you get distilled silica with it

[fringe pawn]

Nope

Unlocking quartz pruification puts distilla silica in the HDD pool.

[ashen girder]

That's funny.

[thorn bane]

no
im 99% sure you get both

[ashen girder]

But also.. why would you make a decision based on that? 👀

[fringe pawn]

Nope

I've now done two and a half 1.0 playthroughs, and I did most of the HDD hunting on the group server one that I'm counting as half.

[ashen girder]

Scanning the drives will provide a total of 108 recipes plus two opportunities for pioneer inventory expansions, using only 107 Hard Drives for recipes due to Quartz Purification also unlocking Distilled Silica for a single scan. This leaves 5 Hard Drives unused.

[thorn bane]

and i just did a playthrough and got both in 1 hdd

[ashen girder]

Wiki agrees with ZyRa.

[fleet cedar]

we figured it out one conveyer lift was still mk4

[fringe pawn]

I could swear I've seen distilled silica in a HDD.

[thorn bane]

also wouldnt be pretty stupid if you didnt

"Both recipes Dissolved Silica appears in are unlocked from a single Hard Drive"

[fringe pawn]

I have no idea how I got that in my head. Huh. Because yeah, that would be really dumb.

[thorn bane]

but ye it makes both
only using 1 part of it is obviously wasteful

[ashen girder]

Especially since you can't package it.

[thorn bane]

thats the complex part, of using it since it can lock the other part

[ashen girder]

Can't even get rid of it without the other half.

[thorn bane]

i did overflow sink for quartz + silica so it doesnt clog

[magic island]

you can't sink distilled silica without turning it into solid silica, so both recipes must be used in tandem no matter what

[thorn bane]

its actually kinda interesting since my usual alt recipes use way more silica than quartz crystals
so if i were to do it again id actually use crystal computer i think
just so i can use the crystal part of the recipe

[fringe pawn]

That's why the pair of recipes is such a pain in the ass though, you need to setup and calculate the whole silica+quartz system versus just making pure quartz and cheap silica. Or even just sticking to default recipes.

[thorn bane]

yes its complicated

thats why i love it

[cedar ivy]

but most importantly

[magic island]

it's not overly complicated; the recipe set gives you crystals+silica in a 5:9 ratio

if that doesn't match the ratio you need, supplement the lesser item with another recipe

[cedar ivy]

E F F I C I E N C Y

[thorn bane]

or sink extra crystals/silica

can also use silica in stuff like def. alumina to use it up

[magic island]

since you're bringing in water and limestone, you can also throw wet concrete, fine concrete, and/or cheap silica into the mix to tune your final output.

that's what I did when I used the recipes; the byproduct water and surplus silica went into making wet/fine concrete

[ripe abyss]

I have a question. How can I insert this amount of water into the pipes?

[lean apex]

Have a tier 2 pipe

And a + pipe with two extractors

[cedar ivy]

the 683 you'll have to split between multiple pipes

[thorn bane]

cant really do 683/min
so split into 2

[lean apex]

Oh I was thinking it was the other water bit

[cedar ivy]

like the double-ended manifold you had to do with 8:3 coal gens

[ripe abyss]

I gured out that much. Just need to unzderstand how pipeline insertion works

[magic island]

fortunately that's coming out of multiple refineries and going into multiple refineries, so just don't try to funnel them all into one bottlenecked pipe

[thorn bane]

black magic

[lean apex]

Pipes are weird in this game

[cedar ivy]

don't try to understand them too much. that direction leads to madness.

[lean apex]

Fair

[cedar ivy]

for that # of refineries though, it should be simple enough to just use a pipe from/to each ends of the line of refineries

[ripe abyss]

does this look about right?

[wind spade]

extract exactly that much

[thorn bane]

that looks scetchy

[ripe abyss]

I have no clue how to add the other pipes to the system so I am figuring it out

[thorn bane]

id do it like this

[magic island]

something you can also try doing with the SFTools planner is cutting down the target numbers until the pipes have manageable amounts, and then just duplicating that smaller plan in-game.

ie, cutting the numbers in half and then building the half-size plan twice

[lime wadi]

@hexed phoenix I believe you tried to ask me a question in #screenshots ?

@next pewter are you asking for a whole number as the distance from center to side?

[next pewter]

60 degree angles are easy,but snapping correctly is tricky: -((

[lime wadi]

Snapping how?

You could go for whole number sides when doing fundations, or you can go for a whole number raadius or something like that. It depends on where you want the whole numbers to go

[next pewter]

No, mostly asking if u think snapping this type of pieces is an option. Or should i make a bigger tileable one to get them aligned. or build 3 or 6 orientations in the blueprint

This was whole number sides

Every vertex is 4m

Sorry, no its not. Vertex is sqrt (2) foundations

[lime wadi]

Correct

So youre looking to make the whole numbers the side radius? Or.. I need more info to understand the question

[next pewter]

Can do 2 foundations maybe, but still it only aligns in the orientation i built it. In other directions it is off.

[lime wadi]

Oh, youre trying to make hexagon blueprints snap together?

[next pewter]

I am trying to tilea floor with equilateral trianglrme pieces, or hexagonshaped blueprint pieces if that is easier

[next pewter]

Yes!

And they do snap to foundations or world grid on the angle they are built, but with apperarently 20-40 cm random offsets in other directions if i rotate it

[lime wadi]

Using whole number sides for hexagons will put you on irrational numbers on the world grid, since the distance between two opposite sides will be some multiple of sqrt(3).

[next pewter]

Indeed. So... no solution?

Or i could use an approximation, squashed on one direction. That can be whole number heights, and withs then.

Like 2 foundations high, sqrt 5 length over two sqashed diagonals, len 4 of the long diag?

[lime wadi]

Looks slightly finiscky but works for me?

[lime wadi]

Oh, you wanna do equalateral triangles?

[next pewter]

Yes. 60' angles, equilateral or approximately so

(Or 120)

[lime wadi]

Yeah so, foundations are limited to 90 degrees or more, unless youre clever and have found something that works for you

I saw you were doing something with the corner ramps?

[next pewter]

Yes, corner ramps combined w barrier method on crorners works to comstruct it.

[lime wadi]

lol i forgot how fun geometric tiling is

[next pewter]

But then its stansalone. Can make it into bigger ones too, but manual, all from previous, i cannot link blueprinys atm.

[whole sable]

i need power and my nuclear power plant kills me when i need to fix it

[next pewter]

Yess. Nice!!

[next pewter]

Do these tile from blueprint? Or constructed in place?
does it ever return to worldgrid w a certain period? I assume not?

[lime wadi]

Again, returning to the world grid depends

[next pewter]

True, u can if u choose to, but not with unit sides.

[ashen girder]

Time to hook up thermal gens and priority power switches!

[lime wadi]

So because the legnth is an irrational number, you cannot return to the world grid in the direction of the arrow if the leftmost hexagon was built on it

[next pewter]

What> 1 foundationside does, and with what period then, is now my inteeest. :-))

[lime wadi]

You can look at it this way

If an irrational number, multiplied by a whole number, or even a decimal, got you to a whole number

That wouldnt be irrational now

[next pewter]

Hmm, true

[lime wadi]

So with whole sides, no, you never return to world grid unless you work backwards, subtracting the irrational numbers you added

You could use a whole number of foundations for the distance between two opposite sides. That would stay on the world grid in the East-West direction. In the North-South direction we get irrational again.

And lastly, you could try a whole number between two opposite vertices , which is rational north-south, but irrational east-west

[next pewter]

But w irrational length sides u can,in theory. pick two frames on worldgrid 4 and 9 rectangular sides apart, and repeat one axis worldgrid alignment w that period (for example 4, not the 9 ofc.

[lime wadi]

Whole number sides lets you go irrational in all directions, but gain the benefit that your sides are really easy to decorate. I actually have a lot of builds based on this kind of geometry

There is also the option to round the irrational numbers, which will make your angles slightly less than perfect.

You can do this with increasing precision depending on how much math you are willing totry and do

[next pewter]

The question is, then, how to construvt such regular hexagon w known /predetermined period in one direction.

[next pewter]

Getting too late here atm, but would love to dive int this deeper (tomorrow)! Lets make a thread?

[lime wadi]

So it sounds like youd be happy with a whole number between sides? 🙂

[lime wadi]

Go right ahead!

Be sure to ping me in it so I get notifs.

[next pewter]

Yes, that would be the easiest/ cleanest. Will try w 2 foundations offset tmorrow.

[lime wadi]

Well thats a blueprint i never thought id make

[thorn bane]

embrace the trigon

[lime wadi]

the trigon must grow

[edgy leaf]

whats that?

[fringe pawn]

Corner ramps

[edgy leaf]

strange

[deep citrus]

yall I think instant scrap is the best bauxite to aluminum scrap ratio

I thought it wasn't but it is

[vapid gorge]

exact same as sloppy electrode

[edgy leaf]

or nvm

[ashen girder]

Isn't it tied?

[deep citrus]

cuz like normal for alumina and electrode is 12:20 bauxite to scrap which is 3:5
but then instant scrap is 15:30 or 1:3, and multiplying that up it is 3:9

[edgy leaf]

tfw face when u forgor to turn on alts in satisfactorytools..

yea its tied, both give 16400 max

[twin wind]

Not worth it at all.

25 Quartz = 15 Quartz Crystals
24 Quarts + 0.66 Iron Plates + 2 Water + 8 nitrogen gas = 15 quartz crystals

You'll definitely use more power , more machines , more effort to save 1 quartz

The silicia can be viewed kind of as nice but meh.

[deep citrus]

but like

[vapid gorge]

it doubles it's value if you need the silica xD @twin wind

and the quartz

[deep citrus]

oh come on I calculated wrong

[vapid gorge]

and nitrogen+iron are trash resources

[deep citrus]

bruh that's supposed to be a 2 not a 3

[deep citrus]

so it's 3:5
and 1:2, and then that goes to 3:6 that still seems like it should be a better rate

am I still calulating something wrong? did I take wrong numbers?

[twin wind]

I did a setup like that. I did the ALT: Polymer Resin one though to make more Rubber/Plastic as I didn't need much Petrol Coke

[deep citrus]

wait yeah I'm not looking at sloppy alumina, I'm looking at base recipe

wait why am I doing that

sloppy is just better for bauxite to alumina

[brisk smelt]

juicy 9600 alu

[deep citrus]

damn does base alumina recipe really suck that much

is it like trying to trick you because it makes silica?

[twin wind]

You'd need to make your own silica to go the other route. Wouldn't really say its a trick, but it won't produce enough silcia to be 1:1 ratio.

[deep citrus]

yeah sadly

yeah I'm the kinda person who would make the silica to pair with one of the 2 scrap routes

as in whichever I might choose for the given production line

[twin wind]

But it does make more Aluminum Ingots per Bauxite

[deep citrus]

well yeah

if you are willing to make silica and foundires it is better scrap to ingot

[twin wind]

I just awesome sink the silicia as i didn't get that alt recipe yet.

[deep citrus]

[twin wind]

Also only really run like 1 machine so i overclocked / underclocked things.

[inner beacon]

All i do for math for myfactory is just watch a Scalti video

[twin wind]

Make a creative world and start from End Game back to Early Game.

Then choose how fast you want each phase to be.

[inner beacon]

So it it better to start a megafactory and have everything processed there or use Modular factories and have stuff flow to the main base

[deep citrus]

but like, wish it was worth something, yknow?

[twin wind]

I was mostly saying if you look at End game and work backwards you could figure out what setups you need to reach certain Resource/Min speeds to beat the game in a desired time span.

You could also run the game 24/7 which is what i did lol and just come back next day with storages on storages of stuff made.

[ashen girder]

42 Quartz = 15 Quartz Crystals and 27 Silica.
24 Quartz, 1 Iron Ore, 8 Nitrogen Gas, 5 Limestone, 4 Water = 15 Quartz Crystals and 27 Silica.

You're trading 18 quartz for 1 iron ore, 8 nitrogen, 5 limestone and 4 water.

[twin wind]

I mean yeah if you want the silica but yeah i get your point less uses for the nitrogen then the silcia.

[ashen girder]

Don't sleep on the Silicon recipes. They're good, especially with Quartz Purification.

Quartz Purification is also the fastest Quartz recipe.

And the Silica one by, like, 5 fold.

Honestly, I feel like all of the new acid alts are pretty good for end game stuff.

[deep citrus]

I think theyre like slightly less efficient than the pure recipes, but I have only looked at copper so far

[ashen girder]

Leached Iron is tied for most efficient iron ingot recipe.

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah you'd want to use all the recipes that are heavy on oscilators, crystal and silica

[ashen girder]

Leached Caterium's the best of the Caterium Ingots.

Leached Copper's less efficient, but also 3 times as fast.

[twin wind]

Idk not really seeing anything i'd use Silcia or Nitric Acid for.

[deep citrus]

I mean maybe crystal computer with silicon circuit boards could be good with quartz purification

[ashen girder]

Silicon circuit boards and silicon HSCs are very, very good.

[vapid gorge]

more alum ingots, nuclear chains, silicon Circuit borards, cheap concrete

fine concrete sorry

[twin wind]

I just used left over petro coke + rubber to make it and got like 5 storages of it.

[ashen girder]

I don't hoard things. 🤣

Waste of points and space if you ask me.

[vapid gorge]

I mean any system that has an excess of an item will eventually fill infinite containers right?

can't be how you measure things

A big computer factory uses both a butt ton of silica and crystal if you use silicon CB and crystal comps

[edgy leaf]

electrode circuitboard is kinda tempting, its pure oil

[vapid gorge]

it's a ton of pure oil though

[deep citrus]

I wonder how silicon CB and HCS with crystal computer is for supercomputers

[vapid gorge]

imo good for small production processes where you have oil and need a handful of CBs. It's fairly niche

[deep citrus]

the best ratio numbers for it get wonky

[edgy leaf]

havent looked much into the numbers, guess ill use the base recipe then.

it uses more oil than quickwire and copper instaed of caterium

[deep citrus]

if i ever use it, I will just use base rubber recipe and make fuel out of the excess HOR that isn't used for coke or smth

[edgy leaf]

and since i plan to turn literally all the oil on the map into plastic/rubber/coke anyway i take any opportunity to use oil i can get

[ashen girder]

I ❤️ OC Supercomputers.

[twin wind]

Well i skipped computers and went Alt: Radio Control System so it was less Quartz Requirements for the Radio Control Units. Did Alt: OC Super Computers
Did reg Cooling Systems as it swaps 1 motor for 4 rubber but i had a way to make rubber but not motor at the spot i built.

[deep citrus]

could be good with coated cable for computers maybe?

[ashen girder]

OC Supercomputers and Turbo Electric Motors.

I'm honestly super happy with that factory.

[edgy leaf]

an alt for producing coke would be nice

[deep citrus]

is OC supercomputer that good?

[twin wind]

Cooling systems are stupid easy to make imo.

[ashen girder]

Most people hate it. 🤣

[vapid gorge]

well the HOR alt is basically the alt for it. Lots more coke per oil

[vapid gorge]

I tend to use cat or sil CBs personally, more use cases

[edgy leaf]

yea but it doesnt have any spice, yk

[ashen girder]

My supercomputer+turbo motor factory doesn't use a single drop of oil.

[vapid gorge]

spice ? xD

[edgy leaf]

something with bigger tradeoffs would be nice, the hor alt is basically a nobrainer if you use the diluted recycled chain

[edgy leaf]

its kinda simple and "bland"

[vapid gorge]

well, if you don't need that much oil in one spot you don't need hor/diluted, but people commonly go big yes

[twin wind]

Only take 450 crude oil for 108k power so you don't need much.

[deep citrus]

but why is OC supercomputer so good?

[twin wind]

I like it because i had no interest in setting up computers, highspeed connections, ai limiters, batteries.

also has the fastest /min speed.

and uses an assembler so you can sloop it for cheap.

[edgy leaf]

im considering going with oc computer because it uses nitrogen and i have excess nitrogen

[twin wind]

where manufactor is 4 sloops.

[wraith aspen]

would this be cool or unfun

[deep citrus]

that depends on you rly

[ashen girder]

I like it because there's a huge overlap with Turbo Electric Motors and Electric Motors.

[edgy leaf]

i plan to do this here:

[wraith aspen]

just goit done doing 50 oscillators a minute im not doing this anytime soon

[wraith aspen]

i assume your building yours on the gold coast side west?

[edgy leaf]

i havent decided on where to build it yet, my goal for this playthrough is to make a train network so big and robust that i can build anything anywhere

[wraith aspen]

that oil logistics sounds like hell

[edgy leaf]

oh ive already got that figured out

im producing all the rubber, plastic, fuel and coke in one place

well, im going to. im only like 10% done so far

[wraith aspen]

north fields or gold coast

[edgy leaf]

spire coast in the north

[wraith aspen]

literally iran fr

petition to rename tghe spire coast to saudi arabia

[deep citrus]

so this is also giving you a 379 GW fuel plant?

[edgy leaf]

im literally the usa. i love exploiting innocent lands for their resources and destroying all the natives

ah no, i just did the fuel stuff so that satis calc uses up the fuel

[deep citrus]

so what are you gonna do with the fuel

[wraith aspen]

package and sink the fuel :D

[edgy leaf]

rubber/plastic

[fringe pawn]

Lots of people have done pretty much exactly that, due to how all the world's bauxite is in a strip across the middle of the world.

[edgy leaf]

ill feed some of it into generators but already build the stuff to turn it into rubber/plastic so that i can just switch it over when i have nuclear

[wraith aspen]

500 hours and ive never completed phase 4
yall are way out of my leaufe

[wraith aspen]

yeh its pretty cool

[edgy leaf]

i spent 700 hours in one save without completing phase 4

megaprojects that make u burn out 😍

[deep citrus]

474.2 hours and I have never done phase 3

couldn't get that far in U8

[edgy leaf]

heres the top view of the two slices ive done already, they turn 1200 oil into 3200 plastic and 400 rubber

[wraith aspen]

heres that btw, im terrible at building but i have some plans

[edgy leaf]

here are the input fluid freight platforms, i plan to have one train station with 4 fluid freight platforms feed 4 slices that each use 600 oil per minute.

[wraith aspen]

🇺🇸

[edgy leaf]

same thing for the plastic/rubber but feeding 1200 rubber/plastic into one solid freight platform with 1 train station taking from 4 slices

id need 21 slices if i wanted to turn literally all the oil to rubber/plastic

[wraith aspen]

what do you need all this plastic/rubber for

[edgy leaf]

the system is designed so that i can easily switche a slice from plastic to rubber

[edgy leaf]

i dont know yet

my plan is to just use all the alts that use plastic or rubber

[wraith aspen]

whart could go wrong

[edgy leaf]

ill need 1230 oil for coke to process all the aluminum on the map

so thats only 19 slices left for plastic/rubber

i also want some HOR for rifle ammo

i have no interest in turbofuel and i plan to use coke for my diamonds

so i might reserve 570 oil for smokeless powder and build 18 slices

i already measured it out in scim, i have enough space

[wraith aspen]

using nuclear?

i figure that can just replace and turbofuel plant you make

[edgy leaf]

well, one slice is totally independent from the others and produces 1600 fuel which gets processed to either rubber or plastic in the next section

my plan is to just have some slices burn their fuel until i have nuclear, then ill turn them over to plastic/rubber

[wraith aspen]

where are you getting your power rn

[edgy leaf]

oil directly to fuel at the gold coast

[wraith aspen]

💀

[edgy leaf]

ive only built two slices using 1200 oil

[wraith aspen]

im sorry

[edgy leaf]

i am producing 3600 fuel rn which is being turned to 3600 plastic and getting sunk lol

thats a potential 45gw

[wraith aspen]

turbofuel isnt that hard trust

40gw 😭

[edgy leaf]

yes but why would i build a turbofuel production only to tear it down eventually

[wraith aspen]

its in your name

autism

[edgy leaf]

my brand of autism looks different

im obsessed with my very weird definition of perfection

[wraith aspen]

we are not the same

https://tenor.com/view/gus-fring-jumpscare-gus-fring-jumpscare-scary-oby-gif-13022434999806691946

[edgy leaf]

THIS is my autism 😍

all machines running, all the time. perfectly flat and EQUAL lines

[deep citrus]

what about trains and geothermal

[wraith aspen]

mine as well

20gw, sadge

[edgy leaf]

lol

urs is not flat :/

[edgy leaf]

dont look at the second grid....

[wraith aspen]

lmao

bro used the :"shove everything in the closet" method with his power grid

[edgy leaf]

no not really

[deep citrus]

you have permanently separated grids?

[edgy leaf]

sis used the :"put the car into the garage instead of into your livingroom" method with her power grid

[wraith aspen]

sounds like cope tbh

[edgy leaf]

yes. when i have nuclear i plan to have the nuclear reactors seperated with priority power switches so i can remotely allocate electricity between the grids

[deep citrus]

"his"?

[edgy leaf]

not really, im just using the grid as a way to make sure all my machines are running all the time

[brisk smelt]

ah the joys of using nuclear power plants to sink water byproduct from aluminum

[edgy leaf]

its more like a monitoring device, its a metric not a goal

my grid being flat is just what i use to measure whether all my machines are running all the time. if a train fucks up i will see it in the flat grid too because there will be machines connected to the flat grid relying on the train

same with stuff like particle accelerators, if they are clogged then it will have ripple effects across the normal grid

[brisk smelt]

so you have to load balance every system in your grid 😭 that sounds like a nightmare

[edgy leaf]

no, i dont load balance anything

[brisk smelt]

one resource per minute over, its over...

[wraith aspen]

i assume she just waits for manifolds to saturate

and sinks excess

thats what i did my second playtrough

[brisk smelt]

how many points p/m do u have @edgy leaf

im curious

[edgy leaf]

fun fact, my system is actually objectively not perfectly efficient because of repeating decimals.... some thing should be 133.333333333(infinite threes)% but are only 133.3333%

[brisk smelt]

10 mil?

[edgy leaf]

nah

[wraith aspen]

25k for me cuz i dont actually sink anything other then trash 🗿

[edgy leaf]

everything is tiny except the oil stuff, i just built enough to get my way to tier 9

[brisk smelt]

i have sinks on my aluminum cuz if it backs up a SINGLE bit the entire system is completely fucked.

its a system of slooped refinereies so no external water supply lol

[edgy leaf]

definitely an interesting concept

[deep citrus]

huh

[wraith aspen]

21 gw to tier 9 my god how much afkingdid you have to do 😭

[edgy leaf]

barely any

[wraith aspen]

its so over

[edgy leaf]

i "manually" crafted everything for phase 3 AND phase 4 :)

[brisk smelt]

actually, i generate 2160 water from thin air

v1.0 is really funny

[deep citrus]

bruh

that is... certainly something

[wraith aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-crying-walter-dying-gif-20964719

[edgy leaf]

"manually" meaning i set up a slooped manufacturer and assembler and manually put items into industrial storage containers

it took like, a day i think

[deep citrus]

bin crafting past phase 2 is insanity

[wraith aspen]

yeh thats what im doing for computers and heavy mod frames rn

[edgy leaf]

totally worth it i have fancy belts now

i dont have heavy modular frames automated yet

💪

[wraith aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-crying-walter-dying-gif-20964719

[edgy leaf]

the most complicated parts i have automated are computers and motors i think

[wraith aspen]

PLAY THE DAMN GAME!!!! LOCK THE FUCK IN!!!!

[brisk smelt]

WHAT

WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[edgy leaf]

well and time crystals and ficsite trigons but they're not complicated just lategame

[wraith aspen]

crystal computers actually the best recipie tbh

[deep citrus]

your progression is so wonky

[edgy leaf]

it felt paiinful to play the game without fully utilizing each node... knowing that theres mk6 belts and not having them broke me

[edgy leaf]

yes 💪

anyway it wasnt that difficult to "cheat" my way to tier 9 with slooping

you only need 12.5 heavy modular frames to make 100 nuclear pasta if u sloop it

[brisk smelt]

this is like buying a gun but throwing the bullets at your target...

[deep citrus]

bin crafting all the way through phase 4 is fucking diabolical

[edgy leaf]

im built different

[wraith aspen]

imma be real i duped some sloops and spheres cuz i cant be assed to spam spacebar with jetpack for 5 hours
i wanna play the factory game not the fly around and shoot things game

[edgy leaf]

i didnt dupe anything 💪

i have 74 sloops and im only missing 3 alt recipes

[brisk smelt]

SCIM'ing yourself power shards and sloops is alright, not cheating imo

[edgy leaf]

i would have like 10k energy without the APAs lmao

[edgy leaf]

sloops go too far imo cause free energy

[brisk smelt]

my calculator is being...

[brisk smelt]

ye, if u do sloops down a supply chain the starting resource cost is like 1/16 or 1/32

[edgy leaf]

oh yea, powershards are another reason i "cheated" my way to tier 9

[wraith aspen]

i dont use alien power augmenters thats my thing

down the line imma delete all my extra sloops and then actually build augs

[deep citrus]

what do you mean by this?

[wraith aspen]

i counted the sloops i duped
at nuclear imma delete them all and actually go explore for a ton to build augs

[deep citrus]

iirc there's 106 sloops in the world

[wraith aspen]

i only use them in bin crafting manufacturers

[wraith aspen]

#math-and-meta message

[edgy leaf]

i need 2592 for my oil factory

[deep citrus]

I was not talking or reffering to that in any capacity

I do not know what you mean by this

[wraith aspen]

what

[edgy leaf]

so i wanted to get them automated asap

[wind spade]

known problem, computers suck at decimal math, can safely ignore

[edgy leaf]

btw greeny, idea, recipe templates. having like, a recipe template to choose from would be nice.

[brisk smelt]

floating point 🙏

[edgy leaf]

I hate floating points

who gave them permission to defy gravity???

[wind spade]

old tools most likely won't have anything like that, new tools probably

[edgy leaf]

yea that idea was more directed at new tools

it's funny, I've been more hyped for new tools than for the eldenring dlc...

[deep citrus]

"new tools"?

[edgy leaf]

new version of satisfactory tools

[wraith aspen]

website

[wind spade]

ETA 2027 xD

[brisk smelt]

what......?

[deep citrus]

so you're remaking the tools site?

[wind spade]

using maximise?
(if yes, don't)

[wind spade]

yeah

[deep citrus]

pog

[wraith aspen]

🙏

[brisk smelt]

no, just 45 pc cubes and 10 fmf lol

[wind spade]

"input" is considered free, so it doesn't optimise for it

[brisk smelt]

but why would it make so many casings it won't use

[wind spade]

why not if you give it tons of free stuff?

[forest bough]

finished my first coal setup

any possible improvements?

i tried to make it with scalability in mind

the input is 60 coal instead of 120 so i put 4 generators for now

[honest lotus]

Honestly I think you should increase it to 120 anyway, sharded if necessary

60 coal/min isn't enough to support much

[forest bough]

i can always merge 2 normal coal mines for one 120 belt

[subtle goblet]

3 water extractors can run exactly 8 coal power generators?

[forest bough]

mhm

the ratio is one belt of 120 coal for 8 miners

3 water extractors supply 8 exactly

[honest lotus]

Do note that they'll be 360 water/min total (more than a mk1 pipe's capacity) so you can't just connect them all into one single junction

[subtle goblet]

oh wait i forgot mk pipe is 300m^3/s

[forest bough]

this is how i did it

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

examples

[forest bough]

why would you ever use the middle design

is there a use case for putting 2 so close together like that

[subtle goblet]

maybe 2 small ponds with just enough room for 2 and 1 each?

[forest bough]

also i want to note that if anyone decides to use 2m foundation to make the water extractors look better it makes the piping look slightly wonky

but it's a very minor aesthetic discrepancy

[wraith aspen]

when i built my first coal gen setup this world i forgot abt this and just bussed everything kek
had to build a sky highway of power lines to my factory in the dune desert lmfao

i am going to use the oil nodes just southeast of the spire coast in the desert ish area for drone fuel, is this wise?

do they have a better use tier 8-9 with other nodes nearby that i dont know about?

[worthy talon]

is there a comprehensive list of recipes and how they stack against one another, like which & how many raw resources does this one use vs this one

[wind spade]

not really, as such a list would have tables with billions of rows

[snow knot]

instead of guessing number for output is tehre a way to say specifically how much input i have and what i CAN do with that?

[wind spade]

yes, there's the maximise mode (but I heavily recommend to change back to items/min mode once you figure out the max value)

[snow knot]

im pretty bad with the website in general and didnt really understand the maximise mode or how to use it

[wind spade]

it makes max possible amount of a given product, given the resource limitations from Items, Input

[magic island]

tracing recipe comparisons back to raw resources is especially tough

example: a simple item like iron rods can be made using iron, copper, limestone, coal sulfur, bauxite, quartz, water, and/or oil. in various different possible ratios

now consider how many things can be made from iron rods

[ashen girder]

Ooh, I know that one. 3!

[worthy talon]

fuck, i wanted a cheat sheet for fused frame after notebook mathing an entire 7.5 per min turbo motor factory

back to the book then

[brisk smelt]

guess a number and adjust accordingly to fit to input

[brisk smelt]

you still have to notebook math if u use sloops, calculator doesnt have that functionality iirc

@wind spade oh yea, is sloop update planned for calculator

[prisma kraken]

@edgy leaf if you're still about, i believe i've figured out max nuclear with ficsonium

[wind spade]

definitely not for old tools

[brisk smelt]

v1.0 tools

[wind spade]

at this point tools are like v3

[edgy leaf]

I'm all ears but I'll probably respond tomorrow, already in bed rn

[wind spade]

you can easily simulate sloop by adding input or just requesting half

[edgy leaf]

post it now and I'll read it tomorrow

[prisma kraken]

np, ping me tomorrow then, i'm better off doing other stuff atm

[brisk smelt]

but in the midle of a production chain?

[prisma kraken]

just saw you around & wanted to tell ya 🙂

[edgy leaf]

alright I'll do that

[amber jacinth]

I also am interested in this max nuclear 👀

[wind spade]

add input

[vapid gorge]

you have water on both sides? also it works if all the extractors are on one side but you loop 2 of them on a pipe that meets the other end

like this

this is effectively the middle design

[thorn trellis]

How much power is that

[prisma kraken]

i'd guess btw 5 & 12 gw

guessing it fully uses the coal in the NF bay, which is 2400/min, that would be 12 gw

[brisk smelt]

SCIM o_o

[prisma kraken]

most likely it's the ads on scim causing you grief

[brisk smelt]

i have ublock

[amber jacinth]

so many ads...

[brisk smelt]

my save file is 7600 kb already, might be that

5000 kb of that is just the global track megaprint

[vapid gorge]

uhhhh 64x75mw

you could keep adding groups of 2x4 on top too to build up

everything is clocked to 100%

[unborn ermine]

Fun fact if you have Ublock, you can "block" the top nav bar to get a little bit of extra space on smaller windows. (same with tools )

[wind spade]

Tools don't have ads 🤔

[unborn ermine]

The nav bar

it gets in my way

[wind spade]

it's 60px of space 🤔

[vapid gorge]

there are ads on the internet? idk what you're talking about 😉

[unborn ermine]

I usually have the planner/map on a smaller window, I like my real-estate

[vapid gorge]

huh I didn't know you could expand that

[tepid yacht]

i cant figure out what i hate about this factory

idk what to redo

[unborn ermine]

clean up the crates, and get more inventory slots

[vapid gorge]

it's flat?

[tepid yacht]

noo

[prisma kraken]

either it's flat or its yellow or it's exposed

there's not much else you can use to describe it besides noting the red status lamps

[light fox]

im guessing im not allowed to stand on that

i wanna go over there so badly but i know its just not gonna have any collisions and im gonna fall straight into the void

[prisma kraken]

last i checked, you can get down onto some of the nearby rocks on the edge of the falls

that's looking north from the desert, right?

[thorn trellis]

Crazy

[vapid gorge]

that's a fairly reasonable amount of coal power to build pre fuel.

I like to wait until I have a HOR + diluted fuel set up I can run at least, if not turbo fuel Blend

[prisma kraken]

only 4.8? OC that thing!

[vapid gorge]

if I had infinite shards from the start? sure but cbf doing that early on 😛

and I think 64 coal gens is preeetttyy reasonable

[prisma kraken]

same size as i built, but mine's clocked to 250

you need the miners & belts which come later, so yeah, that's not a thing you can do really early except maybe pushing it to 480/min coal

i guess after the NF nerf, you don't have the 5th coal node anymore

[thorn trellis]

How many nodes is it

[vapid gorge]

4, just running on 240 coal each

[thorn trellis]

Honestly the amount of gens make it look like a lot more

They really take like nothing don’t they

15 per min so little

[vapid gorge]

not a lot no, but they don't preduce much power either

you could make it more compact but I couldn't be bothered

[thorn trellis]

Well it really depends how far ur gonna go before ur next power supply

What’s the next power supply anyway

[vapid gorge]

yeah like I said, I like waiting a while until I have more resource efficient fuel recipes 😄

fuel

though you could conceivably skip fuel and go to nuclear

[thorn trellis]

R they both in the same phase

[vapid gorge]

nah, you can get fuel quite early, and nuclear is fairly late

[thorn trellis]

Is fuel oil?

[vapid gorge]

but if you build modest factories you could stretch your coal to nuclear fairly easily

[thorn trellis]

I think the byproducts make it so u really can’t just skip it

Like u might as well use it for power as ur getting other things

[vapid gorge]

I mean you c an skip oil power but you do need plastic/rubber

[thorn trellis]

Yea

[vapid gorge]

oh you mean the Heavy oil residue?

I jsut turn it to coke and sink it for points

[thorn trellis]

I’m in tiers 3 and 4 so I don’t know much about what I’m talking about

[vapid gorge]

I never make enough of it to really justify making a crappy fuel power station

I mean there's no single way to go forward in the game, just how you like to

[thorn trellis]

True

I got way too lazy trying to make my factory look good

[vapid gorge]

personally, I just can't be bothered turning HOR into power

[thorn trellis]

It’s only the first one anyway making t1 and t2 items

[vapid gorge]

ah, I wait until I've unlocked everything for that

[thorn trellis]

I’ll start making maybe steel look good

How much u think is a good start

[north lynx]

How is satisfactory? I’m saving up for it

[vapid gorge]

first my factories look like this

[thorn trellis]

I gotta hard drive so just gonna try and get solid steel alt

[leaden cosmos]

An addiction you wont easily escape from. Join us and consume

[vapid gorge]

then they look like this

[north lynx]

Yessir

[vapid gorge]

do you like sand box games where you create your own challenge and work towards it? You'll probably like it

[thorn trellis]

Oh my looks like a lot

[north lynx]

Fossil fuels?

[vapid gorge]

about 70% done.

[thorn trellis]

My monstrosity I gave up on

[vapid gorge]

oil products do exist 🙂

[torn quarry]

anyone know any good recycling setups?

[north lynx]

Hoorah

[vapid gorge]

it's a lot easier when you get the hover pack

[pastel obsidian]

It depends on what you like in a game

[vapid gorge]

of?

[thorn trellis]

Cant wait bro

[north lynx]

Automation

[thorn trellis]

Advanced steel is farthest I’ve ever made that was back in update 7 tho

So this time I’m gonna go all the way

[pastel obsidian]

I would recommend factorio

[thorn trellis]

It’s basically a learning save file

[torn quarry]

first your factories had MK6 belts, damn

[north lynx]

3d automation

[thorn trellis]

Then I restart and do it all again but better

[vapid gorge]

well I upgraded them 😛

[thorn trellis]

Just build different

[torn quarry]

does it really matter, its going to look the same weather it ends in plastic or rubber

[thorn trellis]

I personally like all my end factories with mk1 belts idk bout u

[vapid gorge]

satisfactory is very much about bespoke designs and about how you tackle logistics. And you can do a lot of architecture

[vapid gorge]

I mean you could have been talking about recycling uranium waste 😛

[north lynx]

Spaghetti

[thorn trellis]

Who doesn’t like spaghetti

Gotta love belts weaving and clipping everywhere

[pastel obsidian]

satisfactory is more of a design game than it is an automation

[thorn trellis]

Kinda how mine is rn

[vapid gorge]

basically jsut turn all oil into Diluted Fuel, use the resin as start up rubber - turn that into recycled plastic. Keep going until you get yoru desired result

[torn quarry]

i did the math (/j i would never) and it actually takes less resources to have have only mk and try to quickly split off everything that is more than 60 items/sec as faster as possible and turn the world into one gaint belt array

[torn quarry]

no i mean like, the physical arrandment of the refineries

i know it doubles each step

[thorn trellis]

Well makes sense

Cheaper belts

If I’m not wrong aren’t mk5 belts cheap af

Which ones use aluminum

[amber jacinth]

That’s the 5s

[thorn trellis]

Yea

Mk 3 r steel beams and mk 4 are encased?

[amber jacinth]

Yep

[torn quarry]

i mean, there are fewer bauxite nodes than iron nodes, so.....'

[thorn trellis]

Mk 4 unlocks when

T5?

[torn quarry]

later than it should

[amber jacinth]

Uhhhhh advanced steel milestone, iirc

[torn quarry]

its bullshit, like you already have encased before that

[thorn trellis]

Is it?

[amber jacinth]

Dunno tbh lol

Yeah, T4, advanced steel

[thorn trellis]

It’s t5 actually

Just checked

[vapid gorge]

I mean, pretty much jsut that. I run a system with 600 fuel and 600 rubber. Turn that to 1200 plastic

I'll either keep 600 plastic and turn the other 600 into 1200 rubber in front of it.

or turn the whole lot into groups. Entirely up to you if you place them above or next to each other

[thorn trellis]

Sounds kinda stupid

[amber jacinth]

😭

[thorn trellis]

Mine shows me t5

[thorn trellis]

We r talking about dif things just realized

[torn quarry]

no i mean, i litterally try to place out all the refineries and belts and shit, and my brain turns off

[thorn trellis]

I’m talking about the belts

[vapid gorge]

although you could do a funny thing where you use 1 refinery to double rubber, that feeds directly to 2 refineries that double the plastic, to 4 refineries that double it again

[torn quarry]

encased are t4 but the belt is t5, its so stupid

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah you 10000% have to break them up into smaller chunks

[amber jacinth]

Ah that makes sense (for the mixup, not the actual thing)

[vapid gorge]

don't try to combine every step

[torn quarry]

thats what i was considering since im only looking for plastic from this one

[vapid gorge]

it's an option 🙂

[thorn trellis]

Yea it’s dumb why I gotta finish the damn phase 2

I mean mk 3 belts r more then enough for t3/4

[torn quarry]

it sounds simple, but my brain litterally just stops working

it makes like the dial up sound

[torn quarry]

not for me

[sudden hornet]

If you'd like to ruin the game for yourself, you could just stamp this guy's blueprints and connect them with belts https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/blueprints/index/details/id/5393/name/Modular+Refinery

[thorn trellis]

Well if u go crazy with power shards sure

[torn quarry]

no i know how many i need, its litterally, what rotation to have them in and shit

[torn quarry]

no, more that i all the steel go through like one belt at some point usually

[sudden hornet]

it's three refineries in a 4x3 foundation shape with single input and output belts and pipes, you place one stack, then the other, then connect them on the underfloor

[thorn trellis]

Gonna be honest I didn’t understand this sentence

[torn quarry]

idk, i never liked stacked refineries since they are so damn tall

[torn quarry]

yeah my brain is leaking out of my ears sorry

[thorn trellis]

The game does that to us

[torn quarry]

i had a setup that basically made it impossible to have more than 2 belts of steel in mid game

or anything

[light fox]

when the entirety of the game is to create a massive, automated factory that is satisfactory (according to ficsit standards)?

[sudden hornet]

Satisfactory is pretty hostile to automation at scale, all things considered. No circuits, no priority merger, very limited blueprints, train signals are straight up broken etc etc. Just enjoy the construction vibes

... no production graphs or remote grid monitoring 🙂

[vapid gorge]

that's because it encourages to create custom solutions for problems based on production coal, terrain, and resources at hand

it's not factorio that's basically a solved game

[pastel obsidian]

The quality of automation games in the market has grown a lot since this game went into development

[vapid gorge]

as for 'hostile to automation at scale' that sounds like either you haven't practiced much or need to work on creativity cause you can do truly massive set ups.

[sudden hornet]

That's right, you can use your creativity to build truly massive setups despite the game's lack of affordances for doing so. It is what it is! I enjoyed the vibes and got every achievement, but I'm not going to fight the game to scale up further

[vapid gorge]

but you're comparing 2 entirely different logistic systems.
Factorio is about burst production with unreliable resources and managing that

SF is all about dedicated continuous production.

there's no place for priority mergers or circuits cause you always know exactly what is being made and what is going on what belt

and train signals are fine? they do exactly what you tell them to. If you tell them to clog a line thats on you 😛

[sudden hornet]

Train signals are very much not fine. Path signals are happy to let your trains collide, block signals resulted in a deadlock on one of my intersections somehow

[vapid gorge]

that sounds like you don't have much experience with them. Many many many people use them just fine flawlessly

there is a learning curve to them, my first rails were shit

[sudden hornet]

It's a known issue. If your intersection isn't planar and tracks don't actually clip, path signals are happy to let the trains catch on each other

No need to condescend, I only built plain three-way junctions, not some newbie spaghetti

[vapid gorge]

I mean sure but 'junctions need to be flat' doesn't make trains garbage. That's... a fairly reasonable thing. Even realistic. I don't think you'd see many trains with rails bending up above others and clipping through oncoming traffic

I think you need factorio train junctions flat otherwise they don't work either 😛 even with the newer elevated rails

[pastel obsidian]

Factorio with LTN is the god tier of rails

[rigid fox]

Real quick, is this normal?

I mean it would probably look good against a wall or something but

[sudden hornet]

I don't think it's reasonable to handwave "trains can reserve a specific path through it and will only enter the Block if their path allows them to fully pass through" but then just let them collide

[sudden hornet]

I don't understand what's going on, did the container disappear but the holes stay for some reason?

Save and reload might fix it 😄

[rigid fox]

No, it's just invisible.

Happens whenever I put one down.

[sudden hornet]

I've seen medium-size blueprints not quite materialize fully. I'd try reloading or restarting the game

[rigid fox]

It's not a blueprint, either.

But reloading fixed it, but whenever I restart the game it happens again 🤔

E.g., reloading fixes the containers but when you put them down they're just invisible

But on another note, which one of these are best; should I rescan?

[vapid gorge]

that sounds like you put the signals down wrong :\

but so far the issues you've listed are

1. collisions, which happens when you make a mistake, and is fine
2. flat junctions. Which imo is an entirely reasonable thing

the only real difference honestly is dynamic pathing which SF doesn't have. And would be a problem if you had dynamic production in the game. Which you don't.

[pastel obsidian]

rubber

[vapid gorge]

save and reload?
I've seen a visual bug like this once or twice

[rigid fox]

#math-and-meta message

[vapid gorge]

as for hte recipes - are you going to use either item in the near future in a new build? get that. Both are excellent at what they do

[sudden hornet]

Right, following the theme of having to work around the game

[rigid fox]

Did rubber and finished another, which is better? I can also rescan

[vapid gorge]

if you aren't going to use either item in the near future you could reroll I guess? I use both

[pastel obsidian]

plastic

[vapid gorge]

well like I said, it would be an issue if there were dynamic productions. Which there isn't.

you then don't need dynamic pathing

[rigid fox]

Another, which is best? I can reroll and I have heavy oil residue alt

[pastel obsidian]

do you have blenders

[rigid fox]

no

[pastel obsidian]

get the fuel

[vapid gorge]

there really isn't best my person.

all recipes basically have their niche

diluted fuel is great if you want to add extra steps and extend oil products

[pastel obsidian]

now you can turn fuel into plastic and rubber

[rigid fox]

and power

[pastel obsidian]

yes

[vapid gorge]

rubber concrete is fantastic for compact and high yield concrete, especially if you have rubber nearby already

[vapid gorge]

remember, recipes don't exist in a vacuum, they highly depend on all the other recipes you can use along side them and the location on the map you're building

some recipes are terrible doing some things in some places, while absolutely amazing in other situations

[sudden hornet]

I never ended up using either of these. Recycled plastic and recycled rubber are excellent together.

[rigid fox]

Just checked, turns out that the main meta for fuel power depends on diluted and heavy oil residue alts. Would it be a good idea to go through those?

[vapid gorge]

it's more work and space used on location but it's far more power per oil unit if that's what your'e after 🙂

if youre goal is to squeeze everything you can out of an oil unit HOR and Diluted fuel are core alts yes

the most work but most resource efficient

[latent anchor]

I wouldn't say that needing to work around the game is a bad thing. Using the game's tools to build things to accomplish your goals is the entire point of this (and any other) factory game. Any criticism should go to the toolset, and I think Satisfactory's toolset has been pretty well-chosen for a unique experience.

the lack of gigantic blueprints can be annoying but I've found I end up putting more design effort into what I build

[vapid gorge]

honestly, giant blue prints would give outs to creating bespoke solutions to things rather than just plopping the same thing floating somewhat above the ground and calling it a day

[sudden hornet]

It's a toolset for the unique experience of constructing beautiful factories in 3D. It's not particularly helpful for automation at massive scale. That was the original claim!

[latent anchor]

tbh if I had infinite blueprint size I wouldn't build anything good 😅

[latent anchor]

yep, Factorio is balanced around infinitely expanding and acquiring more resources while this isn't. Two very different games

for more reasons than just that though

[vapid gorge]

exactly

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message

[vapid gorge]

I don't know this is 50.4 u rods pm build almost entirely on location (70%) done

and my first large, and cursed , 9k plastic/rubber and 10k alum ingot +sheets/casing pm

that was a learning experience in how not to build

[rigid fox]

Isn't that outdated since it doesn't cover rescanning or being able to 'store' recipes?

[vapid gorge]

nah because the 'quality' of recipes haven't changed.

the ability to rescan only affects you trying to find a specific recipe you want

[rigid fox]

true

[vapid gorge]

which is also fine, I like trying to find sloppy and electrode alts before I start bauxite

[rigid fox]

but it would also prevent you from rolling recipes that aren't good, as well as allowing you to discard recipes in hopes of finding better ones

[vapid gorge]

ah again, 'recipes that aren't good' are purely subjective and situational, like recipes that 'are good' , which are also subjective and situational 🙂

the most you can say about recipes is this:

because humans have some general tendencies, and the layout of the map and resources, there's be some recipes which more people find or create the situations that they shine in
but just because some recipes are more niche doesn't mean they are bad

Like Quickwire stator, which I'm not sure if it still exists, is particularly niche because it's main benefit is that it saves you a good deal of steel

which often isn't an issue.
But I was having trouble with a set up and QW stator made all the difference

[rigid fox]

No no, like recipes that take more power or more resources.

I get the point but some are just objectively better yk

[vapid gorge]

oh but those are also subjective - Like the bolted frame and plate recipes?

they take more resources.

But I love them because they are frigging compact

there's always the trade offs

Maybe you're someone who will always go for resource efficient options no mater what? and that's fine. And you're allowed to have recipes that don't appeal to your style.

but it doesn't mean the other recipes don't work for their niche. Better to say 'recipes I don't like', it's a strong difference

I don't like Electrode Circuit board. But it totally has a niche it's great for

I just never build for it

[rigid fox]

i get it

But I just always think how there are only X amount of resources, but you can always just put down more buildings

[vapid gorge]

true, but your computer will also melt before you use the whole map's resources xD