math-and-meta

[ashen girder]

Yarp. Inspired by all the other people having this exact issue. 😂

I'm still very unclear how headlift, pumps, and height work into this. I think it definitely has an impact.

I couldn't get my high wall to get past like 5% even with a bunch of pumps on its side.

[verbal lake]

Seems like the live test case might provide a quicker and more realistic solution for the many asking about that in specific. Something like you showed where you can just answer with "add two junctions, don't ask why".

[clever bay]

crab am i gonna have to rebuild these full generators?

they think they're taking turbofuel even tho i purge the pipe system

[ashen girder]

The problem is the actual number of junctions depends on how many junctions you've used otherwise.

And it wound up taking 3, but now the producers are at least staying empty.

The problem is the consumers aren't staying full.

[quiet breach]

@ashen girder bro you still at it? 😂

[ashen girder]

I mean, I went to a dinner party for like 3 hours. 🤣

[quiet breach]

Very nice. Some good findings ?

[ashen girder]

Not really, nope. 🤣

Not beyond "adding a bunch of junctions makes a perfect VIP in certain scenarios and does absolutely nothing in other scenarios".

[verbal lake]

in some scenarios, adding too many junctions just breaks it entirely

[ashen girder]

@oblique hollow Told you that could happen!

...he is apparently On Break, so I'll leave him be. 😂

[verbal lake]

Makes the power plant run at 69%, even though there's no reason it should do that... it starts and stops due to lack of water.

All 250% overclocked

[ashen girder]

Huh. What's the left extractor at?

[verbal lake]

80%

eh, maybe not

seems more like they hover around 70-80%

[ashen girder]

Yeah, something' weird is happening.

[verbal lake]

for a minute or two the left extractor will empty out, and run and then it'll clog up for a bit and get full, it's kinda sporadic

If anyone didn't know but ever wondered, you can drag liquids to the trash can.

[leaden cosmos]

yep learned that one when I was changing a powerplant over from fuel to turbofuel 😄

[ashen girder]

Well I'm a dumbass.

100*4 is not 200*3.

[gray peak]

not quite

[ashen girder]

I couldn't figure out why this was refusing to stabilize. Turns out, because it can't. 😂

[leaden cosmos]

I kinda wish nuclear reactors got the same kinda buff as fuel gens, 281 is too bloody much,

[fallen geyser]

i love that half of this channel is people realizing mk2 pipes are fucked up and the other half is people realizing how many generators it takes to burn rocket fuel

[clever bay]

lmao yea

what's fucked is you have to rebuild the generators

[leaden cosmos]

I mean mk2 pipes have been fine, but only when they are full

[clever bay]

i can't just use my old turbofuel lines

[fallen geyser]

wait, why not?

[clever bay]

no idea

I purge the whole system tho

[leaden cosmos]

drag the contents to trash, its tedius but no need to rebuild

[fallen geyser]

was there maybe still liquid in them? rocket fuel is a gas not a liquid, maybe it cant go through "wet" pipes?

[clever bay]

hold please

[clever bay]

nah i did the flush system thingy

[fallen geyser]

oh nvm then lol

[leaden cosmos]

I did the same switching from fuel to rocketfuel 😄

[clever bay]

oh shit thank you!

[fallen geyser]

side note i wish copypasting building settings would also yoink the power shards out of your inventory and set the OC rate

[clever bay]

that worked

[leaden cosmos]

This is what 8 lines of rocketfuel into fully sharded gens looks like 😄

[ashen girder]

...it does.

[clever bay]

yea I wish you could copy paste generators and water pumps

[fallen geyser]

the worst part of setting up rocket fuel wont even be building 500ish gens, itll be loading up the power shards

[leaden cosmos]

put the shards in the blueprint

[ashen girder]

Use a blueprint with them pre-set.

[fallen geyser]

😮

[ashen girder]

And yeah, copy pasting does set clock speed, shards and sloops.

You just can't copy paste generators.

[fallen geyser]

copy pasting doesn't yoink shards last i checked

oh my god whyyyy

[leaden cosmos]

yeah late game slamming down blueprints for pure with shards is just great 😄

[ashen girder]

Just tested, yeah, it absolutely does set clock speed and add shards.

[fallen geyser]

why wouldnt they let you copypaste settings on the building you're like guaranteed to be overclocking 100% of the time and also building like 500 of

[leaden cosmos]

its still 32 bloody refineries per pure copper node, but its better than 100%

[ashen girder]

Because you can beat the game without building more than 40 fuel generators, probably. 😛

[fallen geyser]

you can beat the game without building anything if you wanna take that route

[leaden cosmos]

but where is the fun in that.

[ashen girder]

Not at all true.

[leaden cosmos]

technically you could beat the game with a stupid amount of biogens,

[ashen girder]

Anyway, here: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66fbe004772a987f4a8dea53

[leaden cosmos]

I would not want to be that person

[fallen geyser]

okay true you would need at least one assembler and particle collider

[ashen girder]

And manufacturer, and encoder.

And enough power to run those.

[fallen geyser]

can biogen power a particle collider at 1%

[ashen girder]

You can build 500 biogen if you want. 😛

[fallen geyser]

you'd be running literally everything at 1% to maximize power efficiency

[ashen girder]

I ran my final setup slooped and OC'd.

[leaden cosmos]

build a minmax factory, spend 20 hours hunting all the local population for protein 😄

[ashen girder]

Like, you really don't need 500 fuel generators.

[fallen geyser]

"need" is a subjective term here

to beat the game? no

[leaden cosmos]

but do I want to not think about power again? yes

despite now thinking about how to build max nuclear 😄

[fallen geyser]

yeah exactly my victory condition here has nothing to do with project parts i just want to never have to think about power ever

[ashen girder]

To achieve all of the goals of the game. 😛

[leaden cosmos]

not converter, but max normal uranium max,
50.4 uranium rods
22.4 Plutonium rods
224 Ficsonium rods

without sloops the last one gets near impossible

[ashen girder]

And I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. If you want to never think about power again, have at!

[fallen geyser]

people can set their own goals that have nothing to do with the achievements

i like seeing numbers get big and burning 5k rocket fuel by carpeting the ocean with generators gets a bigass number

[ashen girder]

You asked why they wouldn't do a thing. I was just pointing out both why they wouldn't, and why your premise wasn't entirely accurate. 🤷‍♂️

[fallen geyser]

"because if you do the minimum to beat the game you only have to deal with this UI oversight 40ish times" is not a great defense imo

[leaden cosmos]

time to submit a ticket on the QA site asking for copy/paste then 😄

[ashen girder]

I already linked it. 🙃

[fallen geyser]

lmfao people on the site have been asking for valves to be copypastable for literally 4 years

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/605402cdaa0ba107e3251f99

[amber jacinth]

224 ficsonium? Slooping?

[fallen geyser]

im like morbidly curious what their codebase looks like if they can't just easily expand copypasting from the current buildings it works on to include generators and valves

i know there's some fucked-up class inheritance going on there

[leaden cosmos]

it ends up slooping the last encoder step ends up being the largest reduction in resources from the map, (SAM) but my crappy minmax code is still searching for alternate paths

[fallen geyser]

she sloop on my encoder til i [PUNCHLINE PENDING]

[amber jacinth]

If the goal for ficsonium is to remove the plutonium waste, would it not be better to sloop the steps leading up to the waste removal?

[leaden cosmos]

(I have not manually checked the math yet, my code may be broken 😄 )

[amber jacinth]

e.g. the ficsite for the trigons or the RSAM or similar

[leaden cosmos]

yep, I probably have a math error, seems that residue is pretty cheap, s

[ashen girder]

You don't actually need SAM to make DMR.

Not in an ongoing fashion, at least.

So, on the one hand, this doesn't appear to be deadlocking, which is cool. On the other hand, it also isn't hitting 600. 😂

[prisma kraken]

woohoo, red jungle is deslugged

almost done with the entire map

[leaden cosmos]

You need the pipe to be full to get 600, its even more true for gas,
Consumers have a feed pipe above them, Producers have a collector pipe level or below,

[ashen girder]

Well, so far my current version is keeping the producers empty and the consumers full.

[leaden cosmos]

What spooked you away from that hard drive 😄

[unborn ermine]

That one is later game, superposition oscillator

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i just don't have the unlock yet

[ashen girder]

By the time you can collect it odds are good you don't need it.

I collected it purely to empty it and be done with dropsites. 😂

[prisma kraken]

i think i have enough atm to unlock all the recipes

[unborn ermine]

tbf they are WELL beyond that point imho

[ashen girder]

..there's only 5 extra drives. I don't think anyone is well beyond that point.

[prisma kraken]

so at this point, that's just something i'm going to be nabbing in the final completionist pass

also, at some point, this appeared in the awesome shop:

[leaden cosmos]

I mean if he is doing that much exploration, its only about 6 hours of hunting to pay that with coupons 😄

[prisma kraken]

i think that may happen with the 100 hd achievement, but i didn't notice what the trigger was

[ashen girder]

I haven't seen anyone know for certain what triggers it.

If it's T9, some threshold, or what.

[prisma kraken]

it isn't T9

[unborn ermine]

I might look at mine, I only have 3 HD left

[prisma kraken]

i had it show up before that

[unborn ermine]

Maybe phase 5 ish

[ashen girder]

.....I just realized one of my consumers was clocked wrong. 😭

CURSE YOU, WORLD.

[prisma kraken]

it showed up for me right around the time i finished all the t8 unlocks but well before i had the elevator delivery completed

[unborn ermine]

Oh wait I lied I only have 2 left, the swamp one, and the NASTY red forest one with all the green boys.

[frozen silo]

im at the point where i can easily and freely build railways and i have found a place where i would enjoy to have my main base. that being said, i am having trouble visualizing how i should be handling different products, given that at this point everything is everywhere. i can feasibly imagine building small outposts near resources, but i don't quite understand how i should think of my rail networks

is it like factorio trains?

[remote ice]

Imagine a Satisfactory where you can copy paste valves and generators, quantum encoders fit in blueprint makers, and belts connect between blueprints.
That last one is brought to us by:

[ashen girder]

Quantum encoders do fit in blueprint designers.

[remote ice]

but its cursed

[ashen girder]

Ever heard of the monkey's paw? 😛

[remote ice]

the monkey paw went too far this time 😭 #math-and-meta message

[ashen girder]

You can actually fit two, even.

[leaden cosmos]

I'm planning some very stupid things, and even I don't see me slapping down enough encoders to need them blueprinted 😄

[ashen girder]

Yeah, and even then, you can still blueprint the connection supports just fine.

[remote ice]

to be fair i mostly want the 'blueprints connect belts' thing

oh god i have spent so much time placing belts

easily 75% of what i have done in the last week

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's probably the least likely thing though.

If it makes you feel better, 75% of what I've done is watching efficiency numbers go up and down.

[unborn ermine]

Oh man, imagine if blueprint mode actually connected belts to adjacent blueprint belts

[keen drift]

So, Im workin on my turbo fuel plant cause I’m pre-phase 3 and I’m gonna be making about 3800 turbo fuel. How many generators is that?

[remote ice]

It's so perfect! If it actually connected it'd be easily 5 times faster doing this!

you can't even tell there's a gap except for the fact that the items just stop

[keen drift]

Why are your belts clear?

[remote ice]

mk6

[keen drift]

Oh, weird lookin

[remote ice]

yeah they got some forcefield stuff goin on

[leaden cosmos]

trains to stop the belt pain 😄

[remote ice]

but then i suffer the train pain

[ashen girder]

You can even make'em colorful.

[leaden cosmos]

(looks at my 4500 copper powder / min drone network)
I think trains are not that painful

[remote ice]

your skies must be like a locust swarm

[leaden cosmos]

500 stack size, its 4 drones 😄

[remote ice]

ah, yeah if you're just moving the powderized copper that works

but personally i'd centralize it, which means shipping the copper ore about

[leaden cosmos]

9 mk6 belts across a quater of the map, or 4 drones, yeah I think I want the latter

[keen drift]

Gonna need 3200 coal and sulfur per minute and i dont wanna set up trains

[remote ice]

9 across a quarter... oh how i wish it was so small

[unborn ermine]

When you realise late/post game, thats just 3 belts

[fallen geyser]

3800/7.5=506.6666

[keen drift]

I dont have mk5 belts yet

[fallen geyser]

You don't need belts? Issa liquid

[leaden cosmos]

thats burn rate pest, you need 507 gens

[keen drift]

Oh i was lookin at the wrong message

Whoops

[ashen girder]

....a rock hog just pinged me while I was hoverpacking over my platform. 😂

I've been here for hours.. how'd he just notice me? Turd.

[fallen geyser]

those rock hogs are snipers i stg

chris kyle in this bitch

[prisma kraken]

its only 202.6667 gennies @250%

[ashen girder]

Oh, he joined me.

[leaden cosmos]

make it rocketfuel, I've got over 500 250% gens 😄

[prisma kraken]

it always surprises me how far those hogs can shoot

[ashen girder]

They got some range on'em.

[unborn ermine]

Those dirty buggers can still shoot when they are unloaded by the game

[prisma kraken]

i really wish they hadn't nerfed ex-rebar

[leaden cosmos]

I was wondering about that, seems to take like 6 to get a rad hog

[prisma kraken]

it isn't that they unload, its that they glitch into the terrain and can sometimes shoot through it

[unborn ermine]

Ive been just using nobelisk to do al my hog killing

[prisma kraken]

the rebar has a sharp taper off of damage with distance

[leaden cosmos]

distance from impact or distance from you? I hope the former

[ashen girder]

Impact.

[prisma kraken]

if you're shot goes farther, it does less damage

[ashen girder]

I haven't noticed that.

[prisma kraken]

sometimes i'll snipe a hog or spider from outside of it's detection range, and it takes like 20 shots

i really don't mind the increased danger and more leveled up mobs, but give me an endgame weapon that makes it quicker to dispatch em quick, please?

[leaden cosmos]

nuke nobelisk seems to kill everything I've thrown one at so far 😄

[prisma kraken]

beans take 2

...moment of silence for the bean that gave his life for science

[ashen girder]

They have 200 health.. the nuke nobelisk does 150 damage.

Nuke Hogs have 150 health, should one-shot them if you hit it close enough.

[unborn ermine]

Reminds me I need to get that last available drive, nukes for the swarm of green stingers.

[prisma kraken]

in general, i find nobelisks too tricky to aim with

[unborn ermine]

They are REALLY handy when you understand the tosing mechanic.
but the randomness of the toss makes it funky

[prisma kraken]

what i do more often than not is just use ex-rebar with LBF to stay in the air and rpg down on whatever

yeah, the spiders jump and get me, but i can tank a few hits and have inhalers

[leaden cosmos]

I've not really seen that issue, I've been nailing things on the head with them, unless the game has some slight autoaim or similar going on

[prisma kraken]

i'm actually starting to figure out the timing to hit them after they've started a jump

[unborn ermine]

Theres some inertia mechanic or something, which makes throwing with momentum tricky.

[past reef]

feels like they are made to deal with different stuff, turbo rifle is super good for hatchers and/or spitter but nobelisks are nicer for hogs/cats

yeah it's tough to throw when jetpacking up

[prisma kraken]

normal rifle ammo is less shots to kill a hatcher

[ashen girder]

Normal and Turbo both do 4 damage.

[leaden cosmos]

you throw when your jetpack boost levels off 😄

[unborn ermine]

Turbo isnt worth the damage and windup time.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but you hit your target with normal ammo 🙂

[past reef]

I couldn't stun spitter with normal rifle, only with wound up turbo

[leaden cosmos]

I felt like turbo on single shot was more accurate

[prisma kraken]

they're litterally the same for single shot

[ashen girder]

Now this game's just fuckin' with me. 5 of the 6 machines are at 98%. 😂

[prisma kraken]

the only time i really find tra useful is to stop a charging spider, and um, you don't want to put yourself in a position where that happens

[prisma kraken]

take off the hoverpack

if you have multiple power grids (i.e. rails & power cables), it causes machines to stutter as it jumps btw them

[ashen girder]

I don't.

[prisma kraken]

also if you're bouncing btw power grids partitioned with switches

[ashen girder]

This one isn't.

And also, I did switch, and 4/6 are still at 98%. 😛

[prisma kraken]

i was seeing that last night on a small pasta line & taking off the hoverpack just made the issue disappear

[ashen girder]

One hit 99!

[leaden cosmos]

is the input buffer full and the output buffer empty?

[ashen girder]

Si senor.

It was until you asked. 👀 🤣

[prisma kraken]

also if you're dealing with fluids, just build for mk1 pipes and don't bother with mk2's unless your coming off of an extractor. life is simpler

[ashen girder]

The whole point is literally to figure out how to make Mk2 pipes work.

[leaden cosmos]

MK2 fluids has been fine, Gas is far more annoying

[ashen girder]

I could also just loop this and it instantly stabilizes and works great, even with a 600 freshwater line shoving its way in while recyling 200.

[minor cargo]

Are mk2 pipes not actually 600m3? My testing shows... like.. 540 or 560. Got a few generators that tick on and off at times, like fluid sloshing. Tried making a 'water tower' to see if it helps my imaginary pressure. Anyone else experience this?

[leaden cosmos]

they are technically 602, but only show up to 600 in game,

[minor cargo]

If i fiddle with a flush or two of the network i can get them going again but it does happen after some time

[prisma kraken]

what happens is pipes often pick the wrong direction to transfer liquid, and if running at capacity, there's no room for them to equalize the transfer backward in the pipe

like if you're running an output belt at full capacity, if the machines pause, their output buffers won't ever empty

[leaden cosmos]

and this is why where the pipe enteres the consumer manifold its suggested to either center feed from above, or split and have a feed go to the other end, this means it behaves like 2x 300 pipes with extra capacity

[prisma kraken]

what i want to know the answer to is why do you not have the problem with mk1 pipes?

[muted storm]

Is there a way to find out where I'm producing X item, or perhaps where X item is stored in a storage unit? Context: My map is gigantic and built over the span of years. 😦

[prisma kraken]

probably best you can do is mouse over the containers in delete mode to see their content

changing topics, has anyone found a clever use for this loop:

[ashen girder]

..turning 400 RSAM into 240 Iron Ore?

[gray peak]

huge waste of sam yeah

[fallen geyser]

if you load your save into SCIM (https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map) you can mouse over everything to see the contents and settings of buildings, hopefully that should help. Unfortunately it does flatten everything because it's a top-down view, so multi-floor factories might be difficult to parse.

[fallen geyser]

can we rename this channel to "Mk2 Pipe Support Group"

[amber jacinth]

I hate refineries

[fallen geyser]

do yall think the devs would ever implement a native kind of "megaprint" feature that lets you copy and paste arbitrarily large builds (pulling resources from some special type of storage container since this would easily exceed the combined inventory and depot limit on items), or would that trivialize too much of the game?

i was envisioning some special buildable block you would need to make in pairs that defines the two opposite corners of a 3d rectangular prism

and then everything between that gets copied

and you could make the buildables super expensive and require like a trillion MW to put a cost on it

[fringe pawn]

I already have a blueprint that needs 1,000 concrete and 1,000 steel, and it's just a wall. I'm bordering on needing that special storage now, as it is I need to shotgun dimensional depots for those things.

[fallen geyser]

i was thinking about how shapez 2 having infinitely large blueprints makes the game so much easier but then i remembered that game is infinitely scaling and this game is finite and handcrafted so maybe that would be overkill

[fallen geyser]

but then i see builds like this and wonder

[amber jacinth]

Oh, there's much worse that I've seen 😛

[fringe pawn]

Blueprints have crashing issues on dedicated servers as it is

[fallen geyser]

oh yeah i was ignoring potential code issues

[amber jacinth]

That's the fun of the game-- I personally enjoy the mindless belting of such setups

[fallen geyser]

thinking more from a game design perspective

[ashen girder]

Got it to 100%.

I had to put a valve on the 600 freshwater. 😦

[amber jacinth]

Putting the work into megafactories is the entire meaning behind them. I could just make this whole thing with fly and infinite builds, but the impressive part is the time and focus spent on the build

[fallen geyser]

yeah that's what differentiates this game from shapez 2 (in a good way for both of them)

s2 focuses much more on infinite exponential scaling with a pretty defined and complex end goal (making a factory that can make LITERALLY any arbitrary part theoretically possible out of several quadrillion possibilities)

whereas satisfactory is more about the moment to moment experience

[fallen geyser]

there's a .txt file floating around on the s2 discord listing every shape known to exist that people building a Make Anything Machine use to check their algorithms against. it is 2gb and not even guaranteed to be comprehensive

[amber jacinth]

💀

You play satisfactory for the more personal experience

I love the giant ahh machines, it makes me feel small but powerful, like an ant 😛

[fallen geyser]

and because s2 doesn't have factory cart stunt parks

yet

[amber jacinth]

s2 is more for those logistics lovers, from what i've seen of it

[fallen geyser]

very much so

[amber jacinth]

satisfactory certainly has that, but also... AWESOME shop!

[fallen geyser]

it's the purest distillation of factory automation games

[amber jacinth]

yep

[fallen geyser]

no practical use for anything you make other than meeting quotas that unlock more quotas

the fun is all in making the things and automating those processes

also the community there is a lot more centered around sharing blueprints, sometimes for big megafactories but usually when someone figures out the new theoretical most optimal way to do some common process in the smallest possible footprint

[ashen girder]

Funny how people value space more in a game with literally infinite space.

[fallen geyser]

wanna see something scary

[ashen girder]

..not really, no.

[fallen geyser]

this is the theoretical most optimal/compact build that fits 12 full belts of throughput worth of stacking onto a single 1x1 tile (the only one to do so afaik)

you think satisfactory has spaghetti

[amber jacinth]

Ah, but our spaghetti is not optimized 😛

Can always compact it further

[fallen geyser]

that's what drives me crazy about this game

[gray peak]

clipping is op for space in satisfactory
if you just care about belt space efficiency you can really bring that a long way

[fallen geyser]

once you stop caring about clipping and purely optimize for space and start doing dark magicks with splitters/mergers and lifts and floor holes it becomes a whole different game

s2 is purely grid-based, very deterministic/simple to layout in comparison

with satisfactory spaghetti i never know how close i am to my crazy idea actually working, s2 spaghetti tells me with no ambiguity

[fallen geyser]

the tragic part about this is that it's going to break at some point because it relies on launching shapes directly through other buildings which currently works fine but the devs have said they plan to add collision for that eventually

[latent anchor]

the thing that always annoyed me about s1 was how much more complicated a make-anything-machine was, due to floating quadrants being so much more difficult to make

[fallen geyser]

s2 is better and worse in that regard

there are actually two tiers of MAM, one that makes LITERALLY anything (a True MAM or TMAM) and one that just satisfies the requirements of the game's endgame mode where it asks you for thousands of copies of randomized shapes

and those randomized shapes are guaranteed to not have floating layers

oh also true floating layers dont exist at all anymore, they fall like you'd expect now

[latent anchor]

I wanted to make a TMAM (so that it could make the rocket shapes for upgrades) but it gave me too much of a headache designing it and I didn't want to copy anyone

[fallen geyser]

but the new bugbear is crystallization, specifically layers with mutliple colors of crystals on them, since you crsytallize an entire layer at once and cutting it shatters the whole thing

i don't think anyone has made a TMAM for s2 yet

[latent anchor]

hmm, so it's harder to use cutting?

[fallen geyser]

no cutting works great in all other contexts, they actually added a "half swapper" building that's pretty OP since it can effectively be a faster cutter if you get clever with it

but specifically crystal layers shatter when cut

so you need to do some wizardry with crystallizing half-shapes and combining them

and then putting that into the overall stack, automatically

[latent anchor]

ah

[fallen geyser]

but the random shapes for the easier MAM never ask for multiple colors of crystals either

[latent anchor]

can you get a shape layer with a crystalized quadrant and 3 non-crystalized ones in it?

[fallen geyser]

yes, and that also requires wizardry and is also not on the easy MAM

[latent anchor]

hmm

and you can crystalize a quadrant/half piece by itself as well I assume

[fallen geyser]

to be clear the easy mam is the one that actually gets you points in game, the TMAM is strictly for bragging rights

[latent anchor]

TMAM is always worth it

[fallen geyser]

like if you're given a shape with multiple crystal colors on one layer, it's not that complicated to build a setup to make it

the trick is making a setup that does that for ANY arbitrary combination of colors and non-crystals

AND integrating that into the rest of the MAM

as im sure you're aware, 99% of the work of the TMAM is spent on handling the 1% of corner cases

[latent anchor]

yep

99% of it is making sure that what you cannot make with your machine is truly impossible

through rigorous testing

[fallen geyser]

s2 has a community verification process where you check your build against a 2gb .txt file of all currently known possible shapes

[latent anchor]

oof

[fallen geyser]

it's not even guaranteed to be complete lol

they keep finding new ones

[latent anchor]

I should get around to making a program to bruteforce shape combinations

although the more I think about it the less practical it seems

[fallen geyser]

oh yeah they added a mode with HEXAGONAL SHAPES

[fossil echo]

drones dont have an input delay while unloading/loading right?

[fallen geyser]

they don't block input while loading or unloading iirc, no

unlike trains

[ashen girder]

Talking about MAMs that aren't the MAMs I'm used to. 😅

[latent anchor]

yep, it's been a while since I thought about the shapez kind

[fossil echo]

but for some reason the drone cant support the full belt

(the items stack up to 500)

[latent anchor]

is the drone fully drained upon emptying?

[fossil echo]

yes

[dapper raven]

so i know they did some work on the pipes and how they work. iirc there used to be an issue if you put the maximum 600m3 into a pipe is that still the case or has it been fixed ?

[latent anchor]

technically it hasn't been "fixed", they just figured out it was intended behaviour. Something called water hammering happens when a full pipe with liquid flowing through loses flow rate quickly, and it ends up lowering throughput earlier in the pipes. It's finnicky and takes fiddling around with to overcome but when it doubt if you have any problem with them in particular you can discuss it here

you can achieve 600/min, it's just hard sometimes

anyway @fossil echo is the port the drone fills at emptied after the drone leaves?

[fossil echo]

the port is completely empty after the drone leaves

[past reef]

check the supply, there's no way you can drain 9 stacks of 500 in 1 minute docking animation

[fossil echo]

the belt is overflowing

[latent anchor]

also is it full when the drone arrives to fill up?

the 3 factors in drone troubleshooting

[fossil echo]

im making 1200 nuclear waste/min

drone port is empty on takeoff

other port is also empty

[latent anchor]

is the waste pickup port full when the drone arrives to pick it up?

[fossil echo]

reactors are getting clogged

[fossil echo]

no

[latent anchor]

interesting, from what I can tell it's an issue of getting the waste to the pickup port

[fallen geyser]

the issue i have with this explanation is why don't we see this same behavior with maxed out mk1 pipes

[past reef]

how can you have 2 empty drone port but overflowing output belt? the extra stuff should have been in the incoming part of the output port

[latent anchor]

yeah, I haven't got the foggiest idea 😅

[fallen geyser]

they mentioned the water hammer thing in a qna once iirc

[latent anchor]

it might be something to do with how fast flow rate can change in pipes

[fossil echo]

I have an overflow splitter on the belt and it is overflowing somehow

[latent anchor]

I don't know the numbers but if flow rate could change by 300 per second water hammering would be more prevalent in mk2

[fallen geyser]

like don't get me wrong ive seen a lot of explanations that make a lot of sense except they don't explain why we don't see the same issue with mk1s

[latent anchor]

do not quote me on this

[latent anchor]

overflow splitter where? Before the pickup port?

[fallen geyser]

very weird game design decision to put such a hidden and punishing "balancing" mechanic on the only upgrade to fluid transfer tiers

[fossil echo]

on the belt before the pickup port

[past reef]

then it's more likely the problem on the consuming machines rather than the drone port, the output belt of the output port continuously tries to place the item into the belt

[fallen geyser]

like if mk6 belts never actually hit max throughput because they flung stuff off the sides on corners (THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION PLEASE DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS)

it'd be "realistic" but also weird and punishing for no reason

[past reef]

the port can store 18 stacks of things and a drone can only take 9

[latent anchor]

pipes are really annoying but we're still friends

[fossil echo]

but thatd still be 4500 nuclear waste

[amber jacinth]

Me watching my rotors yeet themselves off of a 90 degree corner

[past reef]

regardless, a single drone can never empty a filled pickup port

if the port is unpowered it'd block input too

[fallen geyser]

it's the fact that mk2s are sold as 600/m, calcs and ratios and node sizes are literally designed around 600/m, but oops you can never actually achieve 600/m because of physics you dummy why would you even think you could put 600/m through the 600/m pipe google "water hammer"

[fossil echo]

as long as the drone takes less than 3 or so minutes it wont hit the throughput limit

[proven sphinx]

Is there a way to calculate how much "troughput" a drone can do ? i wanna move 2700 quickwire and curious if i could do that with drone to get the air abit "alive" aswell

[latent anchor]

you can do it, it's just very difficult

[fossil echo]

id recommend just keeping it as caterium ingots

[latent anchor]

the more priority systems and stuff you want to add to them the harder it gets, too

[fallen geyser]

yeah and you can say the same of belts but at least they aren't fighting you in obtuse and confusing ways the entire time

[high umbra]

gathered a list of every single recipe in the game if anyone ever wants it for some reason

[latent anchor]

my oil setup runs 600/min into rubber/plastic and the spare stuff into fuel, when only rubber/plastic is being used it runs at 600 but when overflow happens its closer to 599.8

[fallen geyser]

also some of the broken/weird/nonobvious stuff with liquids isn't even limited to mk2s, like valves resetting headlift and junctions being... generally very weird (look through the last few days of experiments on them in this channel)

or do valves no longer do that

[latent anchor]

I dunno

[amber jacinth]

Afaik, valves are a "works as intended" feature, just people always misuse them...

[latent anchor]

do remember though, once you've got a setup actually working at 600/min it feels so, so satisfying

[fallen geyser]

like i get that fluid dynamics are complicated and this is an engineering game but at a certain point it just feels like the systems are fighting you

[amber jacinth]

Haven't heard of valves resetting headlift, though

[minor cargo]

I just fixed 2080 fuel going into 104 generators by making an oil tower. Let it fill, then turned the system on. I have perfectly flat power lines again.

[past reef]

full pipe = happy pipe

[latent anchor]

yeah, one thing to remember is if you don't wanna deal with mk2 problems you can just build like you're using mk1s but upgrade them, it's a little unsatisfying but better than dealing with mk2 problems for hours

[fallen geyser]

see but that's what im talking about, it'd be like if mk2 belts had downsides that made you seriously consider running 2 mk1s instead

[amber jacinth]

Best method for avoiding mk2 pipe issues is to just never push through 600/m at 100% efficiency 😛

[latent anchor]

*2 mk2s

but I still get your point

[amber jacinth]

Also I am fairly certain that the mk2 "issues" are why they will never add a mk3 pipe

[latent anchor]

mk3 would be hell 😭

[fallen geyser]

but if those issues are self-imposed (as the "water hammer" explanation suggests) then that's just them not wanting to add mk3s

[latent anchor]

imagine if mk3 was a special type of pipe that didn't have water hammering

special Ficsit tech

[fallen geyser]

literally just a mk2 that works as advertised

[amber jacinth]

Specify pipe flow direction? Yes please!

"liquid can only flow left here because the SAM used to build the pipe tells it that"

[latent anchor]

we gotta suggest this on the QA site

[fossil echo]

this belt is overflowing even though it should be able to support throughput

[latent anchor]

not me though because I'm more worried about a train bug rn

[amber jacinth]

SAM can convert matter, I am sure that swaying fluid flow is not out of it's reach 😛

[fallen geyser]

have ??? chime in with something like "the loop-organ specifies the spin of the windows on the blood highway"

[latent anchor]

??? moment

[fallen geyser]

if this game was bigger on tumblr id already be seeing art shipping humanized versions of ADA and ???

they truly matched each others' respective freaks

[latent anchor]

still not as dumb as shipping batman and robin 🤦‍♂️

I've heard it's been done

[fallen geyser]

lmfao do people do that?

[latent anchor]

apparently

[fallen geyser]

that's basically incest

[latent anchor]

wrong on so many levels

[remote ice]

isn't limiting the pipe flow direction the exact usecase of valves?

i doubt Coffee Stain would add a second thing to do it, even if valves do have problems

[latent anchor]

yeah, but you can still have sloshing problems which reduce throughput

[fallen geyser]

yeah but the issue here is that we're unclear on which of these problems are shortcomings in the code and which ones are intentionally implemented to model real-world fluid dynamics issues like sloshing and water hammering

[remote ice]

fair, yeah

[fallen geyser]

and if it's the latter a mk3 pipe could just. not have those

i doubt theyd do it though

[remote ice]

so uh. Fun fact, mk6 belts don't actually hit full throughput

[fallen geyser]

isnt that a tickrate issue?

[remote ice]

yes but its basically consistent

none of the belts in my world reach 1200/m

[fallen geyser]

yeah but that's what i mean by shortcomings in the code

[latent anchor]

mk6 belts should get fixed in the future if it's a tickrate issue

[torn yacht]

copper/caterium wire or no? uses would max out both resources I have in my vicinity pretty much perfectly instead of hunting across a quarter of the map for more caterium :P (I am NOT builidng 320 constructors dedicated to only wire)

[fallen geyser]

right like the intention is for them to be at 1200 and the solution is obvious (but not necessarily easy to implement)

[amber jacinth]

Thank God no fluid vorticity or corrosion

[fallen geyser]

oh christ imagine if nitric acid corroded pipes

[remote ice]

honestly the obvious solution for mk2 pipes is probably to just make them secretly carry 601/m and hide it in the GUI

that or significantly rework fluid mechanics

[latent anchor]

wouldn't help much, most people only get 550

[remote ice]

oh wow, didn't know it was that bad

[latent anchor]

with some effort you can get 600, but it's hard

or you can use packagers

[fallen geyser]

meanwhile 300 is ezmodo

[fallen geyser]

it feels so, so wrong that the throughput of feeding a pipeline into packagers and running those packages on belts to unpackagers has more consistent throughput than just extending the pipeline

[latent anchor]

yepp

makes physical sense but it's sad

tbh the best way to get max throughput is to have liquids flow downwards into stuff

removes 90% of headaches

[fallen geyser]

but bottomfed setups are so clean 😦

[latent anchor]

I mean, topfed setups are cool too

plus, you only need the supply coming from the top

not the individual machine inputs

[fallen geyser]

lmfao wait should i be building my oil processing plants on a giant staircase

with every process feeding down into the next one

[latent anchor]

maybe... 😄

I made my oil setup a skyscraper with each node draining from above into machines that needed it, a staircase would work pretty well too

[fallen geyser]

the problem i see with that is that some processes have weird feedback loops so you'd eventually be forced to send something uphill

[latent anchor]

remember, headlift doesn't simply determine how many meters something can travel upwards overall

[fallen geyser]

oh?

[latent anchor]

it determines how many meters above where it received the headlift it can go

if it has 20m headlift and it goes 30m down it can go 50m back up

[fallen geyser]

right, it's not cumulative

[latent anchor]

yeah

[fallen geyser]

ohhhh

[latent anchor]

it's why people build water towers

[fallen geyser]

that's how water towers work

[latent anchor]

btw don't bother with really long pipelines to get fluids across long distances, use trains

they're so much better

[fallen geyser]

fluid wagons or packaged into normal wagons?

[latent anchor]

fluid wagons

[fallen geyser]

ok good that's sane at least

[latent anchor]

you can use normal wagons if you want but fluid wagons work fine

only reason to use normal ones is if you're dealing with something that's more compact when packaged (like nitrogen/rocket fuel)

even then you can just use more carriages

but yeah, building a few hundred meter pipeline is sorta ok but do not build one across half the map

[fallen geyser]

at least it makes sense that nitrogen and rocket fuel are more compact in packaged form, you're literally compressing/pressurizing them

[latent anchor]

yep

[fallen geyser]

lol what if ficsit developed tech to compress liquids and made packaged liquid transport more efficient

[latent anchor]

I don't think that's very Ficsit to try and compress liquids for transport like that, you know how hard it is to compress water?

gases are a different case tho

[fallen geyser]

ficsit would absolutely try

[latent anchor]

as long as the solution is efficient it's good, but compressing water is not easy

[fallen geyser]

somersloop tech

[latent anchor]

some liquids would be fine tho

maybe mercer sphere tech

[fallen geyser]

hyperpackagers that require mercer spheres and output at double efficiency

[latent anchor]

yikes

[fallen geyser]

and if you try to sloop them you form a black hole and have to reload a save

[latent anchor]

lol

fun fact: packagers cannot be slooped (and you probably know why)

[fallen geyser]

troll physics infinite water hack lol

[amber jacinth]

problem, physicists?

[latent anchor]

2 cannisters & 2 fuel --> 4 packaged fuel --> 4 cannisters & 4 fuel

not to mention walking the path of infinite biofuel

[fallen geyser]

layer that a few times until you're carpeting the ocean with generators off a single impure node

[amber jacinth]

You don't even need a node once the loop starts up, that's the thing

[latent anchor]

it would honestly make sense being able to make infinite fuel out of somersloops, seeing as canonically energy is harvested from them to boost efficiency

[unborn ermine]

I already have almost 6 Industrial containers of SOLID and at least one normal rn.
I dont need infinite

[latent anchor]

POV: infinite biofuel generator setup

[unborn ermine]

Oh I forgot the full large buffer of fluid as well

[amber jacinth]

I have legit never used and never desired to create any liquid biofuel on my world so far

[latent anchor]

burn biofuel for power forever

also can't you put biofuel into biomass burners?

[fallen geyser]

you could just make a bunch of these that feed half their input back into themselves and output for free forever but i think the math works out to make it more efficient to use them to double the initial output (which could still be a single self-sustaining packager if you want the node free) since it grows exponentially instead of additively

[unborn ermine]

Jetpack + Zipline = Oh would you look at me gliding a quarter way across this whole zone.

Its ligit a stop gap, but it lasts until rocket fuel for sure.

[latent anchor]

rocket fuel is based

[fallen geyser]

yeah everyone hypes up how far you can glide with it but i feel like the increased impulse from turbofuel = fewer and shorter pulses needed to maintain height = better fuel efficiency = comparable flight distance

[latent anchor]

here I am using the hip slang terms, but it's true

[amber jacinth]

Went from biofuel -> turbofuel, zero in between for jetpack 😛

[fallen geyser]

you are literally better of using your alien protein to make dna and use the tickets to buy turbofuel than you are with turning it into biofuel

[unborn ermine]

nah

[latent anchor]

not for long though... you know how tickets scale

[unborn ermine]

thats a global negative

[latent anchor]

it bites you in the butt later

[fallen geyser]

hasn't bit me yet and im like 200hrs into this save

[unborn ermine]

any tickets spent makes anything more hard to get for sure

[latent anchor]

aiming for the golden nut?

I want to get it

[fallen geyser]

ive been so liberal with tickets this playthrough and it's so freeing

[latent anchor]

well I ain't a librol

[fallen geyser]

yeah im gonna get it by running every node on the map through a megafactory i design from the ground up

if i have to leave it running overnight to get 100 tickets instead of getting them in an hour then so be it

[remote ice]

biofuel is the better exploration fuel IMO

flight time is more important for crossing large distances

[fallen geyser]

see i also hear that and i feel like a lot of exploration involves going Up

[latent anchor]

turbofuel is good for scaling quickly

[fallen geyser]

and turbofuel is fine for flight time if you pulse it

[tranquil oasis]

why do some alt recipes use irrational or long decimal numbers

[remote ice]

true

[latent anchor]

they all are fractions, but some of them are stuff like 36/43

[unborn ermine]

Its hilarious how many times I watched streamers fall short when using turbo

[fallen geyser]

it's obnoxious for fighting with sometimes, biofuel does let you just dangle over enemies for 15s without fiddling with the spacebar

[tranquil oasis]

was it on purpose to fuck with me..

[latent anchor]

maybe

[fallen geyser]

the HMF alt ratios are insane

[tranquil oasis]

that is exactly the recipe I am talking about

[latent anchor]

HMFs in general are crazy

[unborn ermine]

Or like steel screws where its a multiple of 13

[fallen geyser]

my condolences

[fallen geyser]

my HMF automation is 4 storage containers running into 2 slooped up manufacturers

[tranquil oasis]

please tell me the only use for HMF is project assembly

honestly fuck it I'm gonna keep them like this

[remote ice]

HMF is used for several items later on, and also for building various things

[prisma kraken]

they've been removed from most building items before phase 4, but come back with a brutality in the FMF part which you can't hand craft

HMF's themselves aren't that bad except for the fact you need manufacturers to make them. the real sticky part of hmf's is the mod frame

[arctic charm]

it would make more sense to make bombs from them

[true chasm]

this is napkin math but with only 1500 oil I can run over 900 fuel generators oon rocket fuel. Does that even sound right

[unborn ermine]

Thats a lowball number (without alts )

This isnt even doing the loop for more base turbo

I also love and hate how simple it looks

[glossy yew]

Not sure if this would be the right place, but, I'm trying to build a mega-ish train base, and I want to get to oil products being on the train network now, would it be better to make oil products at the deposit and place them on the network or place oil on the network and ship it to dedicated factories to turn into oil products?

[unborn ermine]

I havent done much myself, but.
If you are making a LOT of rubber/plastic its better to make it on-site.

[glossy yew]

Currently I only have some basic plastic and rubber being fed into my dimensional depot so I can build stuff, I pretty much just started Phase 4 and unlocked the hoverpack so I can build without struggles

[unborn ermine]

Its like doing the ore vs product when you are thinking about it.
But yeah its extremely daunting when you want to go bigger for production.

[glossy yew]

My train network uses a 1-2 train design, which, feels like, not much at all.

[glossy yew]

Well, I did place my 4 MK4 belts of Iron Ingots into trains...

[unborn ermine]

Some makes more sense like iron/copper, as you might be doing pure/alloy and thats more per ore

But yeah oil stuff,
if you want it dedicated for plastic/rubber, better to go hard and have the infrastructure ready, than to plan low and need to change.
(if you are satisfied that is )

[glossy yew]

I suppose I can figure out which is better by trying it first then

[unborn ermine]

Sinking is never a bad option for excess, and if you plan to do fuel? more rubber in depot for fuel gen building!

[glossy yew]

pushing oil on the network feels more extendable than doing it all on site as well

[remote ice]

...I can't tell if there's some sort of voodoo magic going on here or if there's actually just a net positive loop in the ore conversion recipes

i guess it takes a absolutely unreasonable amount of SAM so meh

[tranquil oasis]

which one

[leaden cosmos]

I think its more that you can fit more square boxes of water into a square box than you can a cylinder 😄

[leaden cosmos]

if you lack oil, the bottom, if you lack quickwire not the 3rd, if you lack copper the second,

[tranquil oasis]

Ig third is perfect

[unborn ermine]

I just realised how nutty the gold coast is for computers if you use caterium circuit board + crystal computers

[twin siren]

i want the excess from the storage to go to sink but idk whats the right way to do it. i set up a smart splitter between them with overflow command but its emptying the storage

[leaden cosmos]

smart spitter before the storage

any into container, overflow out the side

[unborn ermine]

I like storage beside the sink, two splitters, one for immediate storage, and one for secondary line if you decide to use that overflow for more production.

[twin siren]

gotcha thanks

[leaden cosmos]

computer factories end up being really easy to build in terms of places on the map with enough resources, I went looking at the 450/m oil resource well in the south, and I can build every resource I need for all 3 stages of nuclear next door to it 😄

[unborn ermine]

Im at the point where I can do anything and im stunlocked 👀

[fringe seal]

the tool gave me this hm

[leaden cosmos]

pick 1 thing and go wild,

[fringe seal]

maximize AWESOME sink

[leaden cosmos]

I mean seems fine if you wanted equal amounts of each?

[fringe seal]

the thing I am surprised at is that the entire diagram is consisted of whole numbers

except the encased pipe

[fringe seal]

(and I don't know what I will need more, so I am making equal amounts for now)

ig I don't need stators

[leaden cosmos]

I mean motors are very valuable if your aiming at oil 😄

[radiant lance]

hey yall, currently planning my FMF production, but I'm not sure which recipe to go with. I've set up an aluminium refinery that exports 300 casings, 300 sheets, 245 ingots, but batteries and RCUs are gonna take out quite a lot of my casings.

heat-fused frames seem like a nice option for my setup to use ingots instead, but I'm unsure how much of a pain in the ass nitric and acid and fuel will be vs regular nitrogen gas

and overall i'm unsure how efficient it is on aluminium vs the standard recipe (though with some math I did last night while tired I think it's a bit more efficient..?)

[leaden cosmos]

Heat fused is more efficient for aluminium and nitrogen for a little iron and a littl fuel

[radiant lance]

sounds like a better choice then

[leaden cosmos]

you don't need much of an oil node to make 30/min fuel, infact its almost nothing 😄

[radiant lance]

yeah lmao. 30 fuel a minute is a mf sneeze of fuel

it does only leave 95 aluminium ingots to make fluid tanks but uh. who needs nitrogen transport anyway. somersloops will save me

[warped tree]

8 acid = 32 gas

jsut overclock blender and use common recipe

[radiant lance]

I'm planning on making a 70 battery/min setup and a 9 RCU/min setup (control system alt) that'll take out a ton of my casings unfortunately

i could make some batteries with the classic alt but i'm unsure between the recipes atm

[leaden cosmos]

what are the batteries for? don't need them for drones anymore

[warped tree]

You try use it for PC ?

If you need fuel for drone use turbo

[radiant lance]

specifically for drones and vehicles (oh and supercomputers as a potentiality), since I don't like how OP rocket fuel is and I'd like to have a vehicle fuel source that I don't feel obligated to put into a fuel gen instead

mainly just a personal preference thing

[warped tree]

rocket fuel work bad with drone

today check redit with fuel compare

Drones and fuel types

now that drones can take different fuel types and have different speeds depending on fuel type, i have done some testing. flying a drone from one location and back, transporting a full load of limestone

between -2766,-1853 (top left of map) to 792, 2405 (bottom rightish of map), the results are

Fuel - 16 per trip @ 5:32

Turbofuel - 46 per trip @ 5:02

Rocket Fuel - 13 per trip @ 6:26

Ionized Fuel - 9.19 per trip @ 3:47

Uranium Rod - 0.12 per trip @ 4:00

Plutonium Rod - 0.06 per trip @ 3:47

Batteries - 16 per min @ 6:28

[radiant lance]

this one doesn't seem right

[unborn ermine]

Yeah you can always check in game too

[radiant lance]

same number of fuel per trip vs batteries is 🤨

[leaden cosmos]

that rocketfuel time seems wrong

[unborn ermine]

run one drone trip and check fuels

[radiant lance]

yeah that too, how would fuel be a whole minute faster than both batteries and rocket fuel

[leaden cosmos]

consumption looks right, but the speeds are off

[fringe seal]

is there any way to avoid this other than not using the full capacity?

[warped tree]

Just put it here explore it if need https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fg0eh9/drones_and_fuel_types/

[leaden cosmos]

don't use valves, and instead choose which is lower priority and overflow into it?

[radiant lance]

consumption is still sus tho, not sure how it would use the same # of batteries and fuel when batteries have over 6 times the mj

[wind spade]

Wiki has info on these

[fringe seal]

I don't have valves on the feeding lines so ig that's good

[leaden cosmos]

if you need to use valves, your trying to balance fluids, and this rarely ends well 😄

[wind spade]

Yeah, avoid valves and loop the pipe

[fringe seal]

gotcha

[leaden cosmos]

VIP junction is the best thing for alumna solution

[warped tree]

Miss another link with test (My bad sry) 😄 https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fj0t10/drones_fuel_types_testing_2/?share_id=1DSUTRd8ucPtf04cAeNHd&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

[radiant lance]

regular fuel eating more than a whole stack per trip sounds about right LMAO

[wind spade]

Hardly

Separating fresh and recycled water is way better

[unborn ermine]

"better"

😏

[radiant lance]

simply sink all the recycled water like a real efficiencyhead

[wind spade]

Well it is better, since VIP is magic

[obsidian trench]

Did I miss something or is "Cast Screw" alt recipe just straight up better than the base?

[radiant lance]

straight upgrade

[obsidian trench]

I guess the only reason to use the base is alt recipes for rods then in very specific circumstances?

[unborn ermine]

base -> Cast -> steel screws -> steel rod + base

[radiant lance]

i've used the base a couple times in my current save despite having cast screws, simply because i already was inputting basically entirely rods into the line so it was convenient

[obsidian trench]

Well it takes marginally more power I guess

[radiant lance]

cast screws take less power overall

[obsidian trench]

Yeah I meant using the base

[radiant lance]

ah

yea lil bit more power but the power draw of constructors will never matter unless you're building something so large that you should really just have nuclear at that point

also yall, what would you do with the compacted coal byproduct from rocket fuel? I could obv feed it back in for more but i don't really want to

acc i could use it to make turbo rifle ammo i suppose

[unborn ermine]

and even then!
I have 16 coal + geo coverage + 3 augmenters kicking around.
Nearly 20,000MW

[obsidian trench]

Steel is always useful?

[radiant lance]

ehhh i've got a factory making 760 pipes and 90 beams/min

won't need more steel for a while

[glossy yew]

Related question... water on train network, good idea or bad idea?

[cloud comet]

Why is this lift not connecting to the splitter? The one on the floor below connected just fine

[radiant lance]

mostly useless but won't get you turned away at the pearly gates

[cloud comet]

Nvm it worked without the floor hole

[radiant lance]

water is very very low value to transport but if you want to then that's pretty much all the reason you need

[fringe seal]

probably valuable when you need mass amounts of water inland?

[radiant lance]

REAL pioneers frack for water and then transport the water

[glossy yew]

the currently existing part of my train network exists over the part of the map super rich in water

Although I do plan on building over the less water-rich areas later on, when I get to building the train lines to there.

1200 oil per minute to train should be much more than enough for a while I hope.

[unborn ermine]

For sure if you do some alt madness.

[glossy yew]

there's some more oil deposits near me as well, but they aren't pure...

[wind spade]

no, you lose the ability to benefit from rod recipes

[wintry marlin]

Yoyo,i just unlocked bauxite refining, should i try to find alts before i start setting iut up, or is it not that bad?

[wind spade]

starter factory can be done with any recipes really

[unborn ermine]

its always weird when people go back to finished topics

better than the base

[obsidian trench]

Well I meant in terms of resource & power efficiency

[wind spade]

technically:

• most power efficient screws are steel screws
• most resource efficient screws are base screws with steel rod

[obsidian trench]

Yeah but steel takes some kind of coal and that isnt available everywhere, and Im currently going with a playstyle that prefers locally available resources

[wind spade]

in which case, we end up with the classic "depends" 🙂

[obsidian trench]

Yeah always. Was just wondering, since most other alt recipes are usually a trade off in terms of resources and/or power

[radiant lance]

sloppy alumina is very very good, pure aluminium ingots are good if you don't want to mess with silica and are ok with losing some aluminium ingots for it

alclad casings are great

[wind scaffold]

got this, I think it's very good

[fringe pawn]

It's hard for me to not do sloppy alumina, electrode scrap, and pure ingot on the West Coast. The resource proximity is just so good.

[rain swift]

Is Rigor Motor pretty good? I see it adds a lot of complexity but it seems to reduce the need for iron by 75%.

[grand thicket]

iron is the most abundant

[leaden cosmos]

comes down to if your iron limited 😄

[grand thicket]

not worth it imo

[wintry marlin]

is there a application/tool that can set markers on specific locations?

[verbal lake]

other than the in-game map?

[wintry marlin]

i am basically looking to set a marker on all sloop/harddrive locations

[wintry marlin]

yes

[verbal lake]

Try SCIM?

[wintry marlin]

i couldnt find the option to set markers there

[verbal lake]

You can choose "Unselect All Layers" on the main "Map layers" tab, and then on the bottom right is another series of Tabs, one says Artifacts, click on that and select Somersloop and Mercer Sphere and you now have a map with a marker at all sphere and sloop locations. Hard Drives are under the Collectibles tab in the same navigation menu.

Is that sufficient?

[wintry marlin]

yeah,m i know, thats what i am using rn, tehn i set markers ingame at the locations

[toxic dove]

do i miss something in the hoverpack because mine can fly in any direction but NOT flying upwards

[leaden cosmos]

press to go down once, it sometimes locks until the opposite direction

[toxic dove]

thanks, just found out the sneaking key is locked lol

[frigid gorge]

how much of resource/min one freight car does?

Oh, this data written in station interface... is it correct, like, perfect?

[leaden cosmos]

if you have 2 mkN belts in, you can transfer up to 1mkN and 1mkN-1 belts

travel time will change things, but thats the upper limit

[verbal lake]

Seems to consistently happen to be every time I open a container/machine while actively going up or down, it can bork out and get into a weird state and then I have to reset it.

[leaden cosmos]

e.g. I'm tranferring 2000 sulfur/min per carrage in a tight enough 2 train loop

[frigid gorge]

Oh, so i have 2 mk5, so i can connect via buffer and its maximum will be 1mk5 and 1mk4 belt

[leaden cosmos]

the main limit is the inputs / outputs lock for 27 seconds when its loading / unloading,

so for higher stack sizes, less often trains can transfer higher rates 😄

[frigid gorge]

Thanks. I need to transfer coal from desert to northen forest(base near pure iron)

Ok, then, can i believe values in station interface?

[leaden cosmos]

e.g. stack size of 100
32 inventory slots
3200 items per train car,
if your moving in 2000/min, your train has to complete its loop near to 1.6 minutes (or 2 trains each taking 3.2 minutes)

[leaden cosmos]

yes but I found I needed to open it twice

[frigid gorge]

uh, that's hard train math... but i love trains.
Also, do you dedicate platforms to specific resource?

[leaden cosmos]

1 resource per car, but I'll group them up to suit where its heading

[frigid gorge]

Or sorting it after unloading? I think this can be done with sinks help

[leaden cosmos]

I don't like mixing as it can lead to weirdness

[frigid gorge]

I have station on base, where first car for quartz unload and second for motors load, now i need to transfer coal, i can use 3 and 4 cars, or sort out from 1 and 2

because for coal i have dedicated train

[leaden cosmos]

all my trains are also 1 train 4 cars 😄

[frigid gorge]

That's maximum as i remember, for maximum efficiency

[leaden cosmos]

if your train tracks are level, it can go much higher

but accelleration goes down 😄

[frigid gorge]

Of course not, i don't have so much time :D

all i have is pillar with 2 straight pieces to make rails cleaner

but it's impossible to make it straight, too much time consuming

and train in canyon bottom looks awesome

i think i'll go with 1-2 cars and sinks with sorters on main base, ty.
I don't want ugly trains with unfilled car "placeholders"....

[leaden cosmos]

you can build the station for 4, and just use 2 for now 😄

[frigid gorge]

yeah, that's what i have on main base

because i have multiple trains for one road it'll be a little bit of hard train management, press F

[leaden cosmos]

path signals are not as hard as people think they are 😄

my main issue in multiplayer was 14 odd trains rocking up for plastic because 1 guy thought the transfer rate was too low after he clogged half the intersections 😄

[frigid gorge]

this was pain for me

but now i understand them yes

[leaden cosmos]

if you plan for multiple trains to consume for the station you might also use some extra blocks on the entry ramp, but its a nicely designed station 🙂

[frigid gorge]

you just split road on blocks, that's all. Also signs on each station is also necessary imho, to free main railway as soon as possible. I thought about splitting entire road into segments, but i think this will clutter entire road because of trains fully stopping

[frigid gorge]

it's just quick quartz for near production :)) but i rebuild this railways around 10 times before Ada send me enlightment

Thanks for discussion, that was pretty useful for me :)

HMMMMMMM, making intersection before main base for another station just for this coal can help a lot......

more intersections for the trains god!

[leaden cosmos]

more blood for the blood god

[frigid gorge]

that'll come later, when i start to finally planning phase 5 production....

[gray wing]

Hello, I'm trying to build a versatile framework factory, but i cant seem to find the right spot for the factory. Can someone help me out? I circled where my base is and the nodes with a cross are already in use.

[frigid gorge]

You didn't have trains yet?

[gray wing]

no, i have researched everything up until t4

[frigid gorge]

show your alternates

Huh wait

There's only one for frameworks, what about steel? Do you have it?

And how much frameworks you want?

[gray wing]

I have a steel factory yes, it produces the beams and pipes. I have a modular frame factory as well. I need the 1000 frameworks to unlock t5 and 6

[frigid gorge]

You want dedicated production only for frameworks or integrate into your current base?

Just connect this temporarily into one assembler then

place somersloop

[gray wing]

Do I need the frameworks after using them for the space elevator?

[neon cipher]

they'll be used in some other components later

if you don't want to automate them I wouldnt

[gray wing]

Yeah i opened the wiki and it only said I'll need it for a recipe at t8? Is that right?

[neon cipher]

they're one of the least necessary ones to automate. you can just container dump occasionally and get more than enough

[frigid gorge]

and wonder :)) that's what i did. There's some alternates that can ease this production. Like with bolted frame and steel screw you can build 10/min pretty easy,
you need 140 for frames and 90 screw for 7.5 plates and 5 frames. If you on way to t4, then you have only 120 belts..
i wrote this all then checked tiers sorry :D

[neon cipher]

and another one later

[gray wing]

Oh then im not gonna automate them

[neon cipher]

i usually don't automate versatile frameworks and I end up with as huge surplus

[gray wing]

I'll just run around between the factories and stuff it into some containers then

[neon cipher]

not that automating them is hard just you'll end up sinking them all

[frigid gorge]

Yeah, same thing. I just connect my current production to one assembler with somersloop and default recipe. Then doing something else

[gray wing]

I do need a factory for stators though right?

[neon cipher]

yeah i usually keep a sloppy base. often where i start. that I just do what is necessary in the moment and let nature take its course. usually works out pretty well

[wind spade]

not really afaik

[neon cipher]

I would absolutely make a stator, rotor, and motor factory (they can be the same). a few "always need" alt recipes will use stators

[radiant lance]

stators only for motors, automated wiring, and electromagnetic control rods now

so yeah they don't need a dedicated factory

[frigid gorge]

Motors will become necesary for refineries

[gray wing]

I already got a rotor factory, i assume it's best if I place the stator and motor factory close to it?

[frigid gorge]

yeah

[neon cipher]

not dedicated as in stator only, but I'd always build a rotor/stator/motor factory that can balance between the two. you wont always use a lot of them all but yo will always use some of them

[radiant lance]

btw yall, if I'm using a resource well pressurizer and want to combine all the fluid into three equal outputs, would I use a VIP junction for that?

[gray wing]

Oh like a 3 in 1?

[frigid gorge]

what is VIP junction?

[neon cipher]

yeah. once you get the right alt recipes for them it's a lot simpler. i don't fuilly automate them until I get the right mix

[neon cipher]

a fiction

[gray wing]

Okay I think I'll just build a low effort factory for them for now then

Thank you for the help guys!

[neon cipher]

basically I'd set up a rotor/stator/motor factory and then set up inputs for whatever the best recipes I have at the moment is. then I just fill storage and leave as needed. once I get the right trio (usually just steel rotor) i'll automate it

[near igloo]

Hey quick question. Does this look like a height for water I can tolerate without pumps?'

[radiant lance]

yes

[near igloo]

Thanks

[neon cipher]

i mean, no need to eyeball it. if it needs a pump it'll let you know

[gray wing]

Thank you

[vocal adder]

I found out that you can produce anything on the converter conversion chart from just SAM with the right conversion loops. Is it something well known?
Example : 10 iro ore/min from 61.11 sam/min

[wind spade]

yes but why 🙂

[vocal adder]

Easier logistics, you can produce anything from just SAM and Oil

I think it's a fun challenge to build from as few raw resources as possible

[wicked rock]

this would be neat for satisfactory skyblock in theory

[vocal adder]

I discovered it while fixing my recipe optimizer for 1.0, thought it might be useful to someone

[tiny leaf]

im planning to build my first HMF factory soon

how many /min sounds good enough?

[wind spade]

5-10

[tiny leaf]

thats all?

makes my life much easier

[wind spade]

most items in the game are needed in very much small quantities

apart from concrete, you rarely need more than 30/min of anything, or 10/min of advanced procuts

[tiny leaf]

i see

thank you

[feral breach]

How do you guys decide which aluminium chain you want to do?

[outer vale]

if you want to use silica use one, if not use the other

I was playing around with planning this the other day, still got my notes
In quartz order:
300 bauxite 180 coal -> 270 ingot with Sloppy
300 bauxite 150 coal 150 quartz -> 300 ingot with no alts
300 bauxite 180 coal 270 quartz -> 360 ingot with Sloppy and Pure
Pure alone doesn't improve over base, you lose more than you gain

[true junco]

I find i need a lot of steel beams. But thats because i like to use the steel frame set for a lot of my construction.

[brisk smelt]

usually you would make something worth more from SAM, not iron, lol

[brisk smelt]

it all really depends on what their spelevator t5 goals are

but i would say at least aluminum ingots are needed in the thousands lol

if not like 5k production

[mossy trail]

I have 4 refineries with Sloppy Alumina. One of them produces 360 Alumina Solution. Second one produces 72, and the other two 504 each. Now I need to feed Solutions to Electrode Aluminup Scrap. The first one goes right to the refinery. But 2-4 refineries have 1080 outcome and should go to 3 refineries. How do I make this work?

[past reef]

is there a reason you can't make all 3 produce 360 per

[brisk smelt]

just belt straight to the refineries

you can do with 1 mk6

[wind spade]

well, then you don't need aluminum ingots, but the other product

I'm talking about needing the exact item, not that item being part of other production

[brisk smelt]

unless you dont have mk6, split then merge on first and third

[mossy trail]

Its pipes, not belts

[brisk smelt]

oh my bad

then just two pipe feeding into a 3-out manifold

isn't it

[past reef]

1080 pm go into the system it's not ideal

[mossy trail]

Right now its like this

[brisk smelt]

i don't see anything wrong with that

[past reef]

Why is that other one 72 can't you make all of them 360

[brisk smelt]

it really doesn't matter, the 2 504's will overfillinto the 72

[mossy trail]

Because water output. I feed water back to the system

[feral breach]

Seems like the first one is the least matterials... is there some extra step thats a pain? 😄

[past reef]

if you want max aluminum ingot yield you have to run sloppy electrode normal ingot which takes a lot of quartz

[brisk smelt]

usually you would go with no-blender aluminum if you plan less than 8000 ingots/min

above that you use the complicated method

[feral breach]

Its my first factory... so I think any production is fine 😄

[past reef]

for simple setup sloppy normal/electrode pure is okay

[feral breach]

but ideally enough to feed alteast one other factory

[brisk smelt]

you should at least plan for like 2500 ingots/min you will regret doing anything less further down the road

[past reef]

I don't remember any spot with trivial coal/coke distance

[feral breach]

and stop at ingots or produce both end products and ship those if needed?

[brisk smelt]

stop at ingots

make casings at the factories where they're needed

[past reef]

casings/sheets are more compressed though

[feral breach]

guess Ill go punch some numbers to figure out where can I even find enough bauxite 😄

[past reef]

you'd need copper for sheets/casings but you can ship them to the needed place

[brisk smelt]

it all depends on how much he makes/min

again, below like 5000 ish its fine to just ship straight aluminum

[wind spade]

or just... process it to final product on location and don't ship it anywhere

[brisk smelt]

aluminum has a long way to go to t5 spelevator parts

[past reef]

again both needs copper you can ship some copper to the place

man's making first aluminum place he won't use 1k bauxite per node for a while

[wind spade]

that depends on whether you're automating spelevator or not

[modest wraith]

I stayed up until 3:30 making 400 cable per minute for automated wiring because I didn’t realized how much I would need and I am too stubborn to half production

[wintry marlin]

could sommeone check my math on this?

first refinery is clocked to use 240/minbauxite with sloppy alumina alt, outputs 288 solution, the other 2 take 144 solution +48 coke each, and output 240 scrap and 84 water each.
my main concern is that if sth goes wrong the water will be unbalanced.

[vapid gorge]

even with perfect math direct feeding waste water into a system is the most unreliable method

[wintry marlin]

are there any good alternatives? i assume it wwould be a vip junction thingy?

[vapid gorge]

not even

[wintry marlin]

bc i dont ahve any of the waste water disposal recepies

[vapid gorge]

just clock 2 groups of solution producers. 1 uses waste, 1 uses fresh

like this

for sloppy electrode you want 9/30 bauxite using fresh, 21/30 using waste

[wintry marlin]

ah, i see

so i need to basically underclock anbd build 2 extra refineries

[mossy trail]

I use 4th method, but with 200% overclock

[thorny root]

For the purposes of minimizing distance between production lines, is there a good "material adjacency" pattern to follow? Like... For example... Iron, limestone, and coal very close for steel? But... For the whole game.

[ashen girder]

Depends on recipe selection.

[vapid gorge]

well you can clock it however you like.

for example the bottom right, which you're using?

you could have 1 ref doing fresh water at 90% , 1 ref doing Waste water at 210%

as long as the right ratios are being processed

[wintry marlin]

yeah, my problem was that i only had 1 refinery so far

i now have 2, one with fresh one with waste

thx

[thorny root]

I want to do production sections in large volume, expanding on x, y, and I want to do that for each material, going vertically. So for example, I would have a layer of limestone handling, then iron, then coal. They start around the same x y point, and expand from there, with each vertical layer being a different material type. The factory will grow to a certain extent on x, y, and then at the end of the line (arbitrary point to be determined) I will take all products and shift them up to the next "tier" (not layer). Where each teir is a process.

[ashen girder]

How much total water input do you need for that?

[thorny root]

I know that most starting products use raw materials, and sometimes raw materials plus a starting product... And as far as I know, no such starting product requires a manufacturer (or 3 or more input lines)

[wintry marlin]

240 total

i get 168 from waste

[thorny root]

So this means that I can (in theory) layer my raw materials in such a way that I always have vertical adjacency to something that is going to either feed it or be fed by it.

And the problem I'm trying to solve is the rough order in which to do the raw material layers.

[ashen girder]

Mk1 pipes, yeah?

[wintry marlin]

yep

but they are nowhere close to being capped so it shouldnt matter, right?

[ashen girder]

I've just got a test rig set up specifically for aluminum waste water testing. 😄

[wintry marlin]

this is my full setup, the block on the left is just smelters

[feral breach]

I forgot how the ratios work... is it first one number fresh second number waste water or 3/5 use fresh?

[mossy trail]

Is Alcad Casing any good? I save 100 aluminum ingots for 400 copper

Do I miss sonething?

[cursive heron]

for this tiny junction you might want to put a valve depending on how your scrap refineries are clocked. I had this issue before where there was alot of sloshing in the middle.

[wind spade]

it's good if you value 200 copper less than 50 alu ingots 🤷

[wintry marlin]

where would i put the valve?

[wind spade]

never anywhere. Valves are evil and shouldn't be used

[wintry marlin]

thats what i thought

[cursive heron]

in the middle, pointing towards the alumina refinery thats making less

[wind spade]

yeah not a good idea to use valves tbh

[vapid gorge]

depends on the recipe combo

[cursive heron]

valve in this specific scenario fixed my scrap refinery turning on and off, this can also be fixed by filling the pipe with alumina first but you'll get the issue again and have to refill it if your input ever gets cut off for whatever reason

[ashen girder]

Here's my setup. I have it clocked to need 240 water on the right side (4x60), produces 160 water on the left side (2x80), and the input is 300.

[vapid gorge]

the actual ratio on the images are a little confusing tbh , go by clocking of the two groups

[vapid gorge]

the thing with valves is that they are an unreliable method

and honsetly most of the time someone says 'a valve fixed something' it's commonly just time that stabalised it or something else they fiddled with the build

[cursive heron]

and yet they're still less likely to break than vip junction as was tested before 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

wow - cool, two unreliable methods

[vivid escarp]

Whats the most Easy way to get rid of Uranium Waste? Plutonium Fule Rod and then Shredder?

[cursive heron]

it's stable once the pipes are filled with alumina but again, if the input ever gets cutoff for whatever reason the problem comes back

and you'll have to refill the pipes again otherwise I get the sloshing effect back

I looked at my refineries for 40~50 minutes

[ashen girder]

There's two separate issues:

• prioritizing recycled water over fresh water
• hitting a consistent 600 throughput

The first one is easy and has about a bajillion solutions.

[cursive heron]

it's not the water having issues its having that specific pipe setup

[ashen girder]

The second one is harder, and can be easily solved by looping.

[cursive heron]

in the alumina part

[ashen girder]

I'm talking generally. 😅

I've never seen issues from alumina in particular.

Well, I did initially when I had them all manifolded together in an insane way. 😂

[cursive heron]

it's only an issue I've experienced in that specific scenario where you have an H pipe

its basically the only time I've ever had to use valves and it worked

[jovial lichen]

What are the main alt recipes you need for rocket fuel to be really good? Do you need to package it and unpackage for more power?

[ashen girder]

So this is backing up. I'm producing 270 scrap/90 water, producing 180 alumina and consuming 270 water, with a Mk2 at 600 intake line.

[cursive heron]

its a bunch of edge cases ontop of each other that forms a very weird balance of 'yeah it will only happen in this specific scenario'

[ashen girder]

(Freshwater joined at the bottom left.)

And.. that makes sense right? We expect this to back up.

600 freshwater, 90 recycled water into a Mk1.

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch rocket+fuel

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=rocket+fuel

[jovial lichen]

But is there alt recipes people use before this? Such as diluted fuel?

[prisma kraken]

both rocket fuel recipes are very good

if you're retrofitting a TF powerplant, use the default, if you're building it from scratch and want a simplified build, use the nitro rf alt

going tf->rocket fuel is more resource friendly if you use blended tf

[jovial lichen]

This build will be straight from scratch so going with nitro

[vapid gorge]

sure? there are many alts, follow it back

[prisma kraken]

both RF recipes will get you a fuel build that gives you endgame magnitudes of power

[vapid gorge]

it's something you should look at specifically because most recipes are efficient for 1 or more resources, but less efficient for others, so you have to pick which you want to do

[pastel obsidian]

you also save a lot of steps with blended fuel and nitro rocket fuel

[prisma kraken]

yeah, depending on which recipe chain you pick, you'll be horse-trading between crude, sulfur, coal and nitrogen

[prisma kraken]

*dilluted fuel

and really it doesn't save that much

each of the builds actually is pretty comparable on the blenders & refineries

[pastel obsidian]

It saves you making turbo fuel and compacted coal

[prisma kraken]

and that isn't that bad to do

you don't need to make compacted coal for turbofuel

rocket fuel however does make compacted coal for you

[pastel obsidian]

If you want to deal the with extra steps go for it

[prisma kraken]

yeah, no matter what, it's a big build

[cursive heron]

hor + diluted fuel is standard oil saving recipe. It's used in every production that needs fuel

[prisma kraken]

do you want a big build that yeilds ok-ish power or a big build that is comparable to nuclear?

[pastel obsidian]

you can make 150 / min rocket fuel in a 5 x 5

[prisma kraken]

and i'm sure making that scale works rather poorly

i'm also not quite sure how you'd make a bp that processes 300 oil in a 5x5

[wintry marlin]

isnt there supposed to be sth for produced in? or is it a blender thing and i dont have it unlocked yet?

[ashen girder]

Blender.

[wintry marlin]

ye aight

thats what i thought

[prisma kraken]

you can make it in a blender or manufacturer with packaged tf

[wintry marlin]

ye thc

[ashen girder]

This version backs up reliably.

[wintry marlin]

for now i am happy i have aluminion production

higher trhoughput belts

[ashen girder]

It refuses to deadlock though. 😂 HOW DO YOU PEOPLE DEAD LOCK THESE THINGS.

Oh. Pumps probably, huh.

[cursive heron]

I prefer nitro for step simplification tbh, using nitro to use every sulfur in the map still yields 972gw.
If you are at a point where you need TW of power, you'd be using nuclear because you don't want majority of your nitrogen gas going into power since using that much power implies you're at mass-mass production scale and that nitrogen elsewhere

[prisma kraken]

just start 'troubleshooting' by placing valves on the lines 🙂

[wintry marlin]

wdym

[grand jasper]

what do you guys feel like is more imporntan side of the cloud? stacks or upload?

[wintry marlin]

mine works perfectly

[pastel obsidian]

bit of both

[prisma kraken]

oops, that was meant for Tugboat

[pastel obsidian]

speed at the start

[grand jasper]

obviously. and the cost also makes you upgrade them equally. but which one first. its a lot of spheres

[pastel obsidian]

speed is 2x while stack size is just +1

[prisma kraken]

probably the stack

[wintry marlin]

nope

[cursive heron]

I went with 2:1 stack:speed starting out

[wintry marlin]

its both 2x, +1 stack is 2x for stacks

[ashen girder]

What'cha mean? Valves where and pointing which way?

Although, I was right. A single pump dead locked it.

[prisma kraken]

think of what you'll be building a lot of (foundation), and what would benefit having in inventory more

[next pewter]

Try saving and loading.

[ashen girder]

Without the pump?

[next pewter]

Yes

[prisma kraken]

you can also use multiple depots to upload faster

[cursive heron]

^ multiple depos fixes slow speed but you don't have an alternative to low capacity

[next pewter]

But, you only have one machine active? Try 2 in, 4 out?

[tawny bramble]

👋 Hey, anyone know why my pipes aren't happy? Feed and consumption should both be exactly 300 m3/min, but the pipe flow rates are going back and forth wildly. Would it help to elevate the central pipe?

[wintry marlin]

question: how stupid is it to have a drone hub where from 1 point drones deliver fuel to every other drone port? it feel interesting but not sure if its realistically doable

[cursive heron]

remove the valves, turn off your gens (flip the switch in the UI), fill the pipes, then turn them on

[next pewter]

Let pipes fill first? Omly then turn on first generators. Or overfill slightly?

[prisma kraken]

i find that helps, but try filling the pipes completely first

[tawny bramble]

Yeah I did let them fill, it's definiely better but maybe I need input to be higher than output?

[prisma kraken]

to do so, just disconnect the generators from power

[pastel obsidian]

you get into issues when a drone isn't able to unload all the fuel

[ashen girder]

To dead lock it?

[prisma kraken]

pipes aren't 100% full until you see their flow rate drop to zero

[next pewter]

Do the opposite: have one drone port fuel pickup, pht a fuel delviery port next to othwr droneports, assign drone there (at fuel drop,NOT at fuel pickup). Because you can onlybassign one target for each droneport.

[cursive heron]

backwards, you want one refueling port that drones can go to

[next pewter]

And if u put one at pickup, it will block the rest. If you put them at drop they wil wait till fuel is gone there, before fetching new one

[cursive heron]

also because your hub where it delivers to multiple ports doesn't work. Drones work at a many to one scheme but not one to many

[tawny bramble]

I'll try filling pipes totally without valves, thanks

[prisma kraken]

don't try with valves, that just doesn't ever work

[ashen girder]

Oh, I finally dead locked it without the pump. Needed to fill up the alumina manifold.

[crude forge]

is there a shorcut to quickly gather items from a storage unit without opening it?

[tawny bramble]

I thought the probem was backflow and that valves would stop the backflow

[next pewter]

Yes. More machines on one pipe makesxdeadlock more likely, in my experience. 1-1 never deadlocks, 2-2 or, 2-4 does.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, the higher the overall flow the more sensitive it is.

It was even harder to dead lock all 4 because I was trying to keep the water usage down at 270.

So the clockspeeds were really low.

I moved this junction and the deadlock completely broke.

[cursive heron]

sample: this one port is taking in 900 packaged rocket fuel/min. For each major factory, you allocate one dedicated drone (in that factory) which goes to this port to fuel the other drones in said major factory.

[wintry marlin]

ooh, i see

[ashen girder]

Drones only need fuel at one end of their trip, too.