math-and-meta

[knotty zinc]

so the water goes to the less full pipeline?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[ashen girder]

Tries to!

[oblique hollow]

thats a simulation of pressure

very naive one

things flow from full to less full

[ashen girder]

How would you reconcile the priority thing?

[fallen geyser]

I truly do not envy the job of the programmers who have to model fluid dynamics inside of pipes to a degree accurate enough for literal engineering

[oblique hollow]

Black magic

Buckets turning into Moebius strips... Klein bottle buckets?

Klein Buckets

[ashen girder]

Klein buckets. Definitely.

[cerulean stratus]

I empties both buffers, and the top one's giving me 120

[oblique hollow]

Klein Buckets tapping into the Mana of Gaia for dark rituals of fluid dynamics

[ashen girder]

I feel like flow propagates backwards.

[oblique hollow]

have you tried changing the vertical pipe to mk 2

[cerulean stratus]

it is already a mk2

[fallen geyser]

Whenever there's a conflict at one of the pipe intersections the little gnomes living in your CPU flip a coin to see which side gets priority

[oblique hollow]

it looked like mk 1

[urban kite]

my mk 6 throughput isnt working 🙃 (thats a smart splitter with overflow to the left, followed by constructors that take 1200/min of ingots)

[ashen girder]

That was definitely mk1..

[oblique hollow]

well, as you can see, the pipe is very full

[ashen girder]

Different. 😶

[oblique hollow]

all the pipes are very full

try using more height

[ashen girder]

What's the goal exactly?

[oblique hollow]

overflow

[ashen girder]

It's overflowing.

[fallen geyser]

The upper pipe definitely looks like it's flowing over the lower one

[oblique hollow]

when it shouldnt according to master sgetti

[cerulean stratus]

turned the extractors off, drained the network, started them again, and it's still going to the up pipe

[oblique hollow]

again, try a higher pipe

[fallen geyser]

What's up pipe?

[cerulean stratus]

did, same result

Are you trying to surpass the head lift here?

[ashen girder]

Did they break overflow junctions? 😶

[cerulean stratus]

It is pretty broken to me

[ashen girder]

I'll play with it tonight.

Maybe I'll find yet another weird thing junctions can do.

[regal nymph]

so im doing the math on how i need to set up my refineries so i can keep up with the plastic demand of voiding water during aluminum production
and i swear to god tehse reatios are so fucked

in order to use 2.1k bauxite im gonna need to set up 16 ish refineries all at different clocks

this is insane (i love it so much)

[ashen girder]

Numbers!

[regal nymph]

also i just realised

[cerulean stratus]

How do you even recycle 1000 water per min

[regal nymph]

ill need to do extra belt fuckery to facilitate 850 and 510

[ashen girder]

With pipes.

[regal nymph]

you put it into othe rrefineries

the recepie tree im using loses 40% water with each layer

but i only have 40 bottles per minute on hand

[oblique hollow]

you kinda have to

vertical pipes get some head lift too

else most upfeeding woult never work

it seems mk 1 pipes pass on less than mk 2 pipes

[fallen geyser]

You wanna talk about numbers, lets talk about rocket fuel generators

Wadda hell

[cerulean stratus]

but if you surpass the head lift, what happens when the buffer is full

[ashen girder]

No thank you. I got through two banks of 36, ran out of rubber and just finished the game instead.

[urban kite]

man not even over 2k?

[ashen girder]

It overflow.

[regal nymph]

oh speaking of fuel generators

[fallen geyser]

I don't have the last tier of belts yet so I'm limited to 780 from pure nodes

[regal nymph]

i have 80 generators (turbo)
theyre consuming the fuel of 80 generators
theyre all hooked up
i only produce the pwoer of 76 generators

how?

[urban kite]

magic

[regal nymph]

real

[fallen geyser]

FICSIT taking their tax off the top

You thought they let you use all that shit for free?

[regal nymph]

i thought that came out of our paycheck which we supposedly earn by doing the space elevator

[oblique hollow]

test it i dunno what you mean

[urban kite]

my iron? basic. my steel? solid. my pipes? encased. my concrete? sopping wet.

[regal nymph]

but yeahh ill take it as ficsit magic

[regal nymph]

god the last one sucker punched me lmao

[cerulean stratus]

shouldn't valves reset headlift?

[oblique hollow]

Either way, test result:
Vertical mk 2 pipes pass on a fraction of the incoming head lift
like 50%

vertical mk 1 passes on a bit less

probably a code change to save all those poor suckers building bottom-feeding setups

[tulip canopy]

could someone help me with a drone related question?

[oblique hollow]

just ask

[ashen girder]

They didn't before did they?

[tulip canopy]

a round trip for my drone takes 7.11 minutes and requires 115 packaged fuel per trip.

wouldn't this mean it requires 115/7.11 fuel per min?

if so why does it say on the port UI 21.57 required per min?

[oblique hollow]

No, thats misinformation that keeps spreading around

[tulip canopy]

so how much fuel do i need to be making?

[oblique hollow]

idk tbh. maybe they scuffed the math when they allowed other fuels

try 30/min and see what happens

if you cant trust the ingame values you need to experiment

[ashen girder]

Yeah, drone ports have wonky numbers right now.

[tulip canopy]

okay thanks

[regal nymph]

ok chat i think i somewhat have an idea of how im going to handle the aluminium(im talking here so if i say somethign very wrong i can get sanity checked)
so the plan is to feed teh stuff from floor 4 into floor 3 into floor 2 and then whatever is left from floor 2 i alterante betwene refnieries at floor 1 which leaves me with a need to sink only 23(ish) water per minute

ALSO WHY ARENT REFINERIES ONE PLATFORM WIDE FFS

[fallen geyser]

no fr

[urban kite]

ficist doesnt waste (that extra 0.0000001m of space)

[oblique hollow]

to test your skill

[fallen geyser]

assemblers piss me off so bad too because the footprint fits in a platform and then you look up and the edges are just. there. overhanging

[regal nymph]

yeahh

WAIT
i forgot
this doesnt output water
this outputs aluminia
the water comes later

[fallen geyser]

We should be able to stagger assemblers to fit them in a row one platform wide per assembler

[grizzled siren]

Penciling out nuclear and curious… will 75,600MW (12 NPPs @ 250%; about the max I can get off an impure uranium node) let me sail through T9 comfortably when accounting for nice to haves like portals, waste recycling, etc? (Related: so annoyed they nerfed the swamp uranium + sulfur nodes). Basically, I want to build my power station in the swamp and also don’t really want to cart uranium around the map.

[regal nymph]

i mean its not too complicated but damn

[neat bolt]

Is 2 locomotives + 6 wagons a good combination for the mainline trains in the base of me and my friend?

[fallen geyser]

You're using sloppy alumina and pure ingots right?

[noble timber]

1:4 is generally the recommended config

[neat bolt]

So this would be slight overkill in terms of torque?

[ashen girder]

1 locomotive can pull 5 loaded cars up a 2m ramp and I think 13 up a 1m ramp? Wiki has the math.

[neat bolt]

It is more a thing of what fits into the base we built tbh

We can have 16 2+6 or 24 1+4

[tiny leaf]

DPF is such an insane alt that it is basically a staple for any oil power

[ashen girder]

I would do 1+4 then.

[neat bolt]

This is the base

[urban kite]

regular df is better 😛 (marginally)'

[ashen girder]

It's a hell of a lot simpler to build which is worth a lot imo.

[urban kite]

which?

[ashen girder]

DF.

[loud trellis]

The misinformation being that Valves reset headlift came from the fact that pumps (when unpowered) reset headlift to 0, while still allowing fluid to flow through

It's not covered in the manual but it's pretty neat

[cerulean stratus]

Ah I see, so many different details in this game

[tiny leaf]

if you add a pump to prevent backflow does it fix things?

[oblique hollow]

no

doesnt prevent backflow
just moves it around

[tiny leaf]

hm okay

i guess ill have to struggle with this when i make my mega fuel powerplant

[oblique hollow]

general tip: just dont do max flow with mk 2
just... dont
you will bite yourself in the ass if you try

[neat bolt]

So basically don’t use mk2?

[oblique hollow]

what about "dont use max flow" was hard to read

[neat bolt]

Why would I use mk2 if not for their higher max flow

[oblique hollow]

it means "dont use it at the absolute max"

not "dont use it at all"

[neat bolt]

Tho tbh that seems like quite a big problem to still have at 1.0

[oblique hollow]

450? 500? 540? still fine

[oblique hollow]

factorio has distastrous pipes in 1.0 too (the way they act when split is just bizarre)
its not anything new
Factory games and pipe issues is like a rule

[lime wadi]

Im not very sharp on my fluid dynamics. Why is this backing up?

[oblique hollow]

mk 2 being shit as usual
need more context

[lime wadi]

I thought the Mk 2 rounding errors were fixed in 1.0?

[oblique hollow]

No. theres no rounding error
They just discovered "hey actually? this bug? Its actually just the system working as designed. This unintuitive behaviour is baked into the design"

[lime wadi]

Oh interesting! I was misinformed then

[oblique hollow]

the issue is the junctions not giving max flow any priority

[lime wadi]

And yeah downstream is just a pump into a generic buffer and train station

[oblique hollow]

try mk 2 pumps

generally they give the pipe better stability for some reason

[lime wadi]

Thats odd, ill swap it out real quick

[ashen girder]

Not at all because of 2.5x the head lift. 👀

[oblique hollow]

explain why the higher head lift is better and you get a cookie

[ashen girder]

Because junctions are evil headlift stealing things.

[oblique hollow]

good guess but not the entire truth
too simple and doesnt explain every issue.
Must be more behind it

[neat bolt]

According to Snutt the pipes have no issues, even with max flow, at least as far as CS can tell.

Source: September 17th’s stream

[oblique hollow]

yeah its not a bug
its a flawed design if anything
system works but the system isnt perfect

[cerulean stratus]

according to snutt, the issue was that pioneers like to do straight lines with pipes

[oblique hollow]

how are straight lines an issue

[cerulean stratus]

instead of a soft curve

[cerulean stratus]

he said it was the hammer effect

[neat bolt]

Wa

[lime wadi]

[neat bolt]

Water hammer?

[lime wadi]

Okay I know im rusty but im not that rusty

[oblique hollow]

since when do pipes care about curvature

[neat bolt]

Water hammer would only occur if we suddenly stop flow, and even then, it would just cause it to explode

[oblique hollow]

water hammer can manifest in other ways

[cerulean stratus]

snutt talked about this in the stream

[oblique hollow]

in a system like ours with ridgid pipes and such, pressure spikes lead to flow rate spikes

[proud totem]

I think I've made an oopsie when planning my steel factory build, but I wanted to get a 2nd opinion on if this is a problem.

I am planning on using 960 coal/min using mk 4 belts. I am transporting the coal by train. Currently I have 1 train picking up the coal between 2 different stops, but only using 1 wagon. Loading the 960/min should be fine (I am using an industrial buffer with 2 belts into the station, and this is across 2 stations). But I think unloading is going to have a problem, since that 960 fully saturates the belt speed coming out of one station, and since unloading pauses when a train is docking, this will degrade the performance. Is that a correct assumption?

[oblique hollow]

right ok but thats like the worst excuse ever
who wouldnt just build straight pipes

We specifically got a straight mode for belts and people want a straight mode for pipes now too

[lime wadi]

Usually you would put an industrial buffer at your train station and connect both conveyors, then only use one belt for each wagon.

[oblique hollow]

if thats true then it would just make everything worse

[lime wadi]

The industrial buffer fixes teh start and stop of the station

[proud totem]

Thats what I have is buffers, but it only fixes it if the belts have overhead I think

[neat bolt]

That is… pretty upsetting, ngl that the fluid system is in such shambles.

[proud totem]

Because the station cannot unload into the buffer at 960/min steady

[lime wadi]

No it cannot, not until you have mk 5.

[proud totem]

And since it can't ever go over 960 (2 mk 4 belt limit) the average will be <960

Okay, that's what I figured

[lime wadi]

That is correct yes

[proud totem]

RIP me, gotta shift around some train loops

At least I haven't built the drop-off station area yet

[lime wadi]

Or add a wagon.

[proud totem]

Either way I have to rearrange the layout

[still marsh]

I am very confused, could someone help me with my factory design? I got 60 refineries producing 16,666667/min (set to 50/3) Turbofuel each (1000/min total). At the output I have 6 fully overclocked Blenders needing 150/min (900/min total) and an overflow which needs 100/min. All of the output Buildings are at 100% efficency. Somehow some refineries are filling up with turbofuel and stop producing. So that tells me I have more output than input? How is that possible when producing 1000/min and using 1000/min?

[lime wadi]

I'm a little dumbfounded that this is more stable. Still dipping to 580 sometimes, but better. I though tthe only difference was headlift, which shouldnt even affect anything before the pump

[proud totem]

How long is the loading process for trains? < 15s?

[oblique hollow]

pipe code goes deeper than we thought

[wind spade]

27s

[oblique hollow]

27.08 sec or something

[proud totem]

Oh, interesting. I would've figured 15 cuz of the OR condition, but okay

Now I gotta make sure the rest of my belts have sufficient overhead

[fallen geyser]

(answers out to two sig figs) "or something"

[proud totem]

Well heck, I don't think I have sufficient overhead on my belts for some of my other resources. It might be tight. So long as my train loop takes at least 406.2s

Which is a little less than 7 minutes. So we may be good, I don't know

[lime wadi]

Alright, so. Im gonna take it its my fault for designing that pipe to carry its maximum flow rate. Unless theres somethign specifically about mk 2's

[proud totem]

I might have to play around with forcing the train to wait at a stop for a bit to ensure the belt's overhead can compensate for what was lost from loading

[oblique hollow]

mk 1 at max flow was always more stable

[lime wadi]

Yeah like, ive got overclocked normal oil extractors

And i havent noticed hardly any dips

[fallen geyser]

there is no way they're modeling fluid dynamics to that extent i refuse to believe it

[wind spade]

you only need basic fluid simulation to get fluid hammer

[pulsar stone]

just want to make sure this is right and the fuel generators won't run out of fuel or stop working.

21 fuel generators (+1 @ 65%)
11 refineries making residual fuel.
17 refineries making Alt Heavy oil residue.
(using all of the polymer resin for plastic)

[lime wadi]

Those are some funny numbers

[pulsar stone]

im basically tacking on my first fuel plant to my computer factory. which is why im asking.

[lime wadi]

Well unfortunately the 17:11 ratio doesnt quite work. Are you trying to maximize on 500 crude oil left over?

[pulsar stone]

crude oil?

[lime wadi]

Yes. The raw resource oil.

[pulsar stone]

im using that for the refineries

[lime wadi]

How much do you have?

[pulsar stone]

let me go find out how much ive got spare

ive got like 9 cruide oil spare.

[lime wadi]

Remember you can overlcock if you want more, too.

[pulsar stone]

it is overclocked.

[lime wadi]

9 nodes? Or 9 per minute you mean?

[pulsar stone]

per minute

[lime wadi]

Thats not a lot at all. It could run one fuel generator at 40% clock speed with the recipies youve chosen

[pulsar stone]

but im not trying to use the oil to run a generator.

[lime wadi]

Yes, you want to turn it into fuel.

9 Crude oil becomes 12 Heavy Oil Residue in the refinery

[ashen girder]

So, what's the rest of it?

[lime wadi]

That 12 residue will become 8 fuel.

[oblique hollow]

Left for us to figure out

[lime wadi]

Are you saying you have leftover residue too?

[oblique hollow]

I just mean that junctions might take a portion of headlift, but not a huge chunk

so if it were true, many setups wouldnt work at all

so theres more nuance there

[pulsar stone]

thats what im trying to figure out.

[lime wadi]

You dont know how much residue you have?

How have you been dealing with it? Petroleum coke?

[pulsar stone]

just want to make sure this is right and the fuel generators won't run out of fuel or stop working.

21 fuel generators (+1 @ 65%)
11 refineries making residual fuel.
17 refineries making Alt Heavy oil residue.
(using all of the polymer resin for plastic)

[lime wadi]

No, that is not right.

[pulsar stone]

i have 17 refineries making the stuff....

[ashen girder]

Hmm. Like what? We can test setups that should or shouldn't work, right?

[oblique hollow]

yes. And junctions dont steal enough head lift to make things not work

you could copy ana's setup any try

[ashen girder]

What if I have evidence that they can? 👀

[lime wadi]

What you would actually need is:

• 500/min Crude Oil
• 16x Heavy Oil Residue (+1 @ 66.6666%)
• 11x Residual Fuel (+1 @ 11.1111%)
• 22x Fuel Generators +(1 @ 22.2222%)
• 5x Residual Plastic (+1 @ 55.5555%)
  Slightly goofy numbers unfortunately. They would probably be cleaner if you had a multiple of 15.

[lime wadi]

Okay, so you already have the 17 heavy oil residue refineries. Are you using any of the heavy oil residue?

[pulsar stone]

but than my computers would be off.

[pulsar stone]

no, none.

[warm wren]

🤔 Since I'm already producing 1175 turbo fuel it seems to make more sense to convert to rocket fuel than to go nuke... I just need nitrogen and iron to make nitric acid, and I don't even need that much acid, just like 200.

[lime wadi]

Why would they be off?

[pulsar stone]

because im making 5 per minute. thats all i can get out of it.

[lime wadi]

Where is the plastic for the computers coming from? The polymer resin?

[pulsar stone]

the polymer resin from the heavy oil residue

[lime wadi]

So this would work then, yeah?

[pulsar stone]

i would need to find extra oil from somewhere.

[lime wadi]

Youre using the regular recipies for the computers, right?

And getting 5 per minute?

[verbal lake]

Given all other things are equal, do you have a theory as to why the pipe here with 7 junctions feeds 0 water to the buffer whatsoever?

[pulsar stone]

normal computer.
caterium cercit board.
iron wire (for cable)

[lime wadi]

do water extractors provide that much headlift?

Because I thought it was only 10m

[verbal lake]

Yes

[ashen girder]

Everything that produces head lift can go higher at the expense of flow, as far as I'm aware.

[verbal lake]

It's right on the very edge of head lift, making it ideal to test, as any amount of increase or decrease in headlift is reflected in the volume in the buffer.

For example, the amount of water that reaches the buffer with 0 junctions, 1 junctions or 2 junctions is slightly less each time.

[lime wadi]

Okay that makes a lot more sense knowing you are using caterium circuit board.

[verbal lake]

I know McGalleon has experience with the fluid dynamics, and given his statement that junctions do not steal enough head lift to make things not work. I was curious if, there was another obvious explanation that I'm overlooking.

[hasty nacelle]

Fluids only go up if they have literally no other option.

[verbal lake]

I'm not sure how this moves the discussion forward, can you explain?

[hasty nacelle]

That means those buffers will only get water if the system is completely full of water below them.

[verbal lake]

I'm aware.

[ashen girder]

System: extractor ->>>>>>>- buffer

[verbal lake]

I have two identical set-ups that produce two identical results. When a third identical set-up is added, but with a junction, less water reaches the buffer.

You can test the results yourself, given you have two identical setup. Pipe length, flow, and other things will affect the results, so if you test on your own you will need to ensure both setup are identical in pipe length, flow, etc.

Each time a junction is added, less water reaches the buffer, and eventually, none.

[lime wadi]

@pulsar stone so I think this should still work, you will just have to sink a little extra Polymer Resin. If you really dont want to do that. then you should underclock one of your 17 heavy oil residue refineries to 65%. Then build 12 refineries for the fuel, one of them at 10%. THat gets you 444 fuel/min

Which is 22 fuel gens, plus one at 20%

This second solution means you dont need to bother with the leftover 9 crude oil. But the first solution utilizes all of the crude oil you have

[pulsar stone]

the first option sounds a lot easier because everything is already built and running.

just needed to make sure stuff didnt break with the power if i dont babysit it.

[lime wadi]

The one I typed up just now also has clean numbers and your power grid will be stable.

And is easier to retrofit, yeah.

[astral warren]

Is there some sort of bug rn with miners/mk6 belts?

I've heard there's some issue where miners apparently aren't extracting at the correct rate or something, and a bunch of our supposedly 1200/min coal belts seem to have random holes in them occasionally when the miners back up for no reason whatsoever

[ashen girder]

If you have any sort of performance lag whatsoever, it will cause them to skip.

Mk6 belts are insanely sensitive to computer performance.

[astral warren]

Oh man

My performance is quite terrible when I host our world

[ashen girder]

One guy could make it skip by just opening his inventory. 🤣

[astral warren]

CPU is constantly maxed out and never go above 20 fps

[bronze coral]

Do unpowered pumps no longer reset headlift?

[astral warren]

Gonna pray for a fix for this to come ig

[ashen girder]

There's nothing they can do to fix it.

[echo sparrow]

@astral warren what CPU do you have?

[astral warren]

Ryzen 5 5600x

I'm planning on upgrading soonish

To one of the X3D models

[echo sparrow]

I could imagine that your game slowed down so much that the server can't operate at full tick rate anymore, resulting in all kinds of weird glitches

yeah get off that ancient AMD cpu

[astral warren]

It was decent enough at the time I got it (some years back now), but it's definitely overdue for an upgrade now

What tick rate does Satisfactory run at?

[echo sparrow]

@astral warren not at the maximum in your case, that's for sure

[regal crypt]

Hi guys, I am doing calculations, i have 1440 oil in my pipes, i m trying to figure out how many fuel powered generator i can install with rocket fuel, is it possible to be almost 310 ?

Or i m missing something

[echo sparrow]

@astral warren seems to be 30 at default: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Dedicated_servers/Configuration_files#Server_tick_rate

[astral warren]

Then yeah it's def running slower

[echo sparrow]

let your friend host the server?

[astral warren]

My frames usually hover between 15-20 atm and will dip even lower if I'm doing stuff such as placing conveyors

Yeah it's either that or just deal with the lower throughput for now

I usually host so it's gonna take some getting used to when it comes to the horrendous rubberbanding when playing as a non-host

[echo sparrow]

@regal crypt have you tried calculating it with https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production ?

@astral warren playing with 20 FPS must feel so bad, I can't even imagine it

I'm playing at stable 158 FPS with DLAA and Framegen

[astral warren]

How far along is the world you play on?

[echo sparrow]

oh not that far, ~120h I'd say

I'm sure with some crazy savegame it would be way lower

[astral warren]

I have 130.8h in the last 2 weeks according to Steam so I guess our world is about that old, if not a bit more since other ppl will sometimes play when not everyone is on too

What are your specs?

[echo sparrow]

problem is, Framegen won't increase server tick rate 😛

click on my picture, specs are in the profile

[regal crypt]

is it possible to calculate power i want with it ?

[astral warren]

Oh those are some oil baron ass specs lol I ain't ever gonna get the game to run that smoothly

I'm just a lowly uni student

[echo sparrow]

Just upgrade your CPU and you will be fine, you can probably get a good deal on a 7800X3D once people upgrade to the 9800X3D

[astral warren]

Yeah I've just been waiting on a bit of money before I got it

[echo sparrow]

the massive amount of cache helps a lot in games, probably very much in a calculation heavy game like Satisfactory

[astral warren]

I'm also gonna be replacing my mobo and RAM since the mobo I need for that CPU doesn't support DDR4

[echo sparrow]

@astral warren the 7800X3D only supports DDR5, if you want to stick with DDR4 the 5800X3D is your best option

[astral warren]

Nah I'd rather do a bigger upgrade than potentially undershoot and still get undesirable performance

[echo sparrow]

@regal crypt it shows the amount of power the buildings need. If you want to know the output you just need to multiply the power output times the amount of generators

@astral warren exactly my thinking, that's how I can justify upgrading to a 5090 😛

[astral warren]

I'm on a 3080 so I reckon I'm good for a decent bit

When/if I can get some real income then I'll do some crazier upgrades

[echo sparrow]

if you are gaming on 1080p/1440p for sure, the 3080 is a great card

[astral warren]

Yeah I'm solely on 1080p atm

[echo sparrow]

honestly if you are tight on money just get a used 5080X3D and call it a day. That CPU is still very good for gaming and the motherboard / RAM is cheap if you need to buy them.

[astral warren]

Oh I had a bunch of money, my folks just borrowed it all to pay the bills lol

[echo sparrow]

all a matter of your budget. Low budget -> 5080X3D, a bit more => 7080X3D next month once people sell theirs to upgrade, high budget => 9080X3D or the new Intel flagship

[astral warren]

Just waiting to get that back then I can buy a 7800 no problem

Do we know how much the 9800X3D is going for?

[echo sparrow]

I'd imagine a bit more than the 7080X3D

[fringe pawn]

#off-topic-tech has more folks that might be able to provide insights on buying new hardware. 5700 X3D might be a better deal fwiw.

[echo sparrow]

yeah true, we are spamming the math channel I just realized

[astral warren]

True lol

I'll move there

[median void]

Can someone explain to me why my water extractors are extracting 999 nuclear uranium waste from a seemingly clean water stream?

[astral warren]

It's a known bug, iirc the fix is to get water from a different location

[ashen girder]

"clean water". 😂

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66e70ad9772a987f4a8b1e89 FIXED_INTERNALLY. Neat!

[median void]

Huh. Thanks

[fringe pawn]

I'm still trying to understand why the dark ion fuel alt exists.

Why packaged? And did they not realize when packaged that double the actual rocket fuel cost?

[forest solstice]

is it possible to import blueprints?

[fringe pawn]

Blueprints are stored in folders per save. You need only copy/paste them from one world folder to another.

[ashen girder]

Less diamonds, removes the encoder.

It's more power efficient.

[lime wadi]

I wound up only overclocking to 237.5% in order to provide 30m^3/min of wiggle room. Working like a charm now

[ashen girder]

Are you still trying to get your train station working?

Would you be willing to share your save?

[fringe pawn]

Admittedly just glancing using greeny's calc, it's less power efficient. But I have no idea what weird shit it's doing with converters within the chain.

But what's making my eyes pop is 240 versus 100 rocket fuel to make 100 ionized.

[forest solstice]

is this within the servers files or client files?

[fringe pawn]

Server

Admins would need to get you the files, or add them.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, if you look at the recipes themselves it can be more power efficient, in reality. But it's not especially more power efficient.

DMR's honestly super interesting because it complexifies this conversation a lot.

[fringe pawn]

It's the packaged rocket fuel step that honestly confuses me. It should have been a blender/refinery recipe IMO. If it's going to require the packaged input, it should also give a packaged output. It's just so weird to look at. I don't even necessarily care about resource efficiency as much as these quirks.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, it's definitely a weird recipe.

[lime wadi]

Are you talking to me?

[ashen girder]

Yessum.

You were having issues with pipes right?

[lime wadi]

My station is working just fine with 570m³/min of water being transferred. I dont think I would want 600 anyway becaue the factory downstream was designed to have 600 in mk 2 pipes, which is a mistake.

[ashen girder]

I just wanted to see if I could make it work at 600. 😄

[lime wadi]

Oh im sure the train station can load and unload at 600. But not into a single pipe, no

If i really wanted to i could run each extractor individually into the little buffer ring and that would probably be fine.

Its 4 sets of 2 maxed out extractors for each wagon, thats all. Really simple 😅

[ashen girder]

The difference is you've already built all of that. 😛

[fallen geyser]

LMFAO

Yeah it's definitely at least 310 generators' worth

You're gonna wanna budget for around 1500 power shards to cut that number by a bit and even then it's around 500

[regal crypt]

with 1440 oil i can get 5100m3 rocket fuel ?

[fallen geyser]

With the right alt recipes and enough sulfur, yes

[regal crypt]

awesome, i think i ve not the good alt for now

[fallen geyser]

You wanna look for heavy oil residue, diluted fuel, and turbo blend fuel

Fine black powder lets you make some ammo off to the side if you want but isn't necessary

[ashen girder]

Like this? 😄

Most. Efficient. Train. Ever.

[regal crypt]

thanks !!!

[lime wadi]

Hmm, no :P

[ashen girder]

😦

What's different?

[lime wadi]

The platform up to the buffer is important for prioritizing training the train station first

[ashen girder]

Well, I mean, this is working. 😂

[lime wadi]

Its raised by 3m

[ashen girder]

I have faith it will hit 600!

[lime wadi]

Does it continue loading the train station when a train is loading?

[ashen girder]

No, it does not.

My 600/min worth of consumers are all above 90% now, closing in on 100%.

(Bottom fed too, just because I like doing things the hard way.)

[past reef]

I never have 100% somehow when I look at those number even though the platform never backs up and the output is sinked

[lime wadi]

So when the train is loading, the buffer fills up. And when the train isnt loading anymore.. how does it catch up for the lost time?

[past reef]

Do I have to reload the game after I work on the factory there or what

[lime wadi]

[ashen girder]

It's pushing half down each pipe.

Trains can generally support up to about 1.8x of one input, if you're using both inputs.

So this should be able to go as high as 1,080/min, assuming the optimalish distance.

Compare the fill rate to the transfer rate.

Also it hit 600 on both stations. 🙌

[past reef]

so you just need to wait for the thing to run a bit then check for rate, I never checked after making it run

[lime wadi]

Right. I see. ITs 300 from each pipe, and its able to catch up because its mk 2's

[ashen girder]

Yeah, right.

If I had Mk1s, I wouldn't be able to do above 540ish.

[lime wadi]

The issue i have again is that at the factory this water is going to, it was built to have 600 in each pipe, period. Which no.

[gleaming flame]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, you have to let pipes stabilize.

[lime wadi]

They never do.

[ashen girder]

Mine always do.

[lime wadi]

So you run 600 fluids in mk 2's and never struggle with 100% efficiency?

[ashen girder]

Extractors empty and pegged at 100%.

[ashen girder]

I wouldn't say I never struggle, but it's always been solvable.

[fringe pawn]

600 flow is definitely doable.

[ashen girder]

I've spent the last few days trying to find broken builds explicitly to fix them. 😂

[lime wadi]

Okay, how do you guys get 600 flow in a pipe stable? A simple example, two overclocked water extractors into a single mk 2. It seems like after 20 mins or so mine end up backing up.

Every minute or so theres a dip down to 580

[ashen girder]

That's why I wanted to see your save, to see if I could find what was causing that.

We've got some working theories about why things do what they do, but.. still trying to find good, clear examples.

This one refinery's being a PITA and refusing to hit 100%. 😂

Yay. It hit 100%. Alright. Everything's running at 100%. Now to let it run for awhile.

[fringe pawn]

I tend to just loop everything back to the start and it works fine.

[ashen girder]

Can't do that, there's a train involved in this one.

The H2Choochoo.

[fringe pawn]

Hm. That might be something I'm grappling with myself, soon. But I might also just localize everything to do with oil at each well because oil doesn't really have much interdependency.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I don't use fluid trains myself, ever.

[past reef]

what are the differences between gas and liquid excluding the packaging material

[lime wadi]

Pretty sure most gases expand to 4x their packaged amount when unpackaged?

Gases also do not have headlift

[fringe pawn]

Nitrogen is 4x, rockel fuel is 2x

[stark widget]

my brain is farting. how long will it take to make 500 of these if 3 of these are running?

[lime wadi]

Like, an hour and 10 mins

[ashen girder]

500 items at 7.5 items/minute.

[lime wadi]

To be exact. Hour, 6 mins, 40 seconds lol

[stark widget]

thanks!

[livid meteor]

Hear me out. Couldn't I use drone ports as load balancers?

[lime wadi]

I guess this is my new plan for now

[livid meteor]

Basically if I set up 4 drone ports and feed their output into their input, I could connect multiple factory side drone ports to each other. Like: Factory A sulfur drone goes to factory B -> C -> D -> A. This way every drone from each factory will grab their abundant resources and flies it to the next. The output then gets 50% fed into their input again.
@oblique hollow What's your opinion on that?

I feel like this way you could ensure that you have enough resources at every production site

[torpid gorge]

Really??? Shitttt i didnt know that

Ive been pumping gas for nothing lol

[proven spire]

Wait - can u make check boxes in the to do list? Or is it just looking so by doin brackets (that somehow turn orange)?

[lime wadi]

[] or [x] turns into a checklist

[torpid gorge]

Wait where do you do this?

[lime wadi]

Open your inventory, overyour mouse to the right until you see the gradient, and click.

Public notes are for everyone playing, private notes are just for you. All over the game you can right click things to add to your todo list as well.

[ashen girder]

Isn't this just a manifold with extra steps?

[livid meteor]

well, no more trains needed

I will just do drones

everywhere

[torpid gorge]

I never knew this thank you

[lime wadi]

Not exactly. You could load balance this way,

But man is it an expensive way to do it

Thats a lot of power.

[ashen girder]

I mean, the way he explained it is a manifold..

[livid meteor]

Next step is to get rid of nuclear powerplants, creating 1 nuclear power plant at each drone port so I can set them up independent

[lime wadi]

Oh, i thought he said load balancing.

I was envisioning an array of 16 drone ports to make a 4:4 belt balancer

[ashen girder]

I suppose the feedback does make it sort of a balancer.

[livid meteor]

yea basically

that's the idea

[ashen girder]

Problem is it might start running backwards.

[livid meteor]

Huh?

What do you mean?

[ashen girder]

Remember, drones only go to one place then back.

But they pick up from both locations and drop off at both locations.

[livid meteor]

I just need a circular dependency of drone ports with same resources

But they would pick up for example sulfur and drop sulfur

so they would basically always take half of what's there and bring it to the next station

[lime wadi]

If youve got more than a belt's worth of throughput on the drone circle, you run risk of backups, including dropping things off at the departure port and picking things up at the destination of things are clogged that way.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, starts moving backwards.

..which might not actually be bad? 😂

[livid meteor]

Yea that's the point

If they basically move it in both direction, everything in the circular dependency gets balanced

[lime wadi]

Its.... a lot of fuel to spend for moving stacks of items back and forth for nothing. But it might be really convenient of managed well

And convenience is worth any price

[livid meteor]

And well I can only feed it 1 input, so max throughput would be belt speed I guess?

[livid meteor]

It's free. Plutonium rods

I would sink them anyway

[past reef]

there's probably a way with less drone fuel like balancing out the input into 4 drone ports, but that should work

[livid meteor]

Also on the other hand you would have a shittons of trains driving around

[livid meteor]

Drone fuel (plutonium rods) would probably also balance themselve if I do a circular dependency

I mean I could also just let every dron fly to 1 fuel port but then they would clog at some point

[lime wadi]

Most people usually end up doing a hub and client type of network with drones

But this is sounding more peer to peer

[past reef]

chaining those drone can be nice with throughput though, if the thing is half of the map away you can't really do more than 1 stack per minute straight from the farthest receiver port

[tranquil canopy]

im doing some power plant math on SCIM and i need to double check cause i feel like im having a stroke or doin something wrong, is its seriously telling me i can run 60 fuel generators on only 250m^3 of rocket fuel/min???

[past reef]

but then you'll need 200MW per new place vs 100 MW per new place if train line

[past reef]

4 + 1/6 per min, seems about right

[lime wadi]

Yeah, that is the thing to consider a bit. Doing a drone world playthrough sounds liek something id want to try at some point, and the power costs are definitely a concern.

With hub and spoke networks, youre usually taking from a hub or providing to a hub, and not bringing anything back. Increasing throughput usualyl means adding more drone ports, and the power racks up

Its plenty enough for generic drone uses like nuclear

[tranquil canopy]

WTF O.o wow thats efficent af, on one hand, cool, on the other hand, balancing my systems using fuel as the main by product load just took on a whole new challenge lol

[lime wadi]

But if one wanted to do really high throughput stuff I guess youd want to maximize on drones loading AND unloading at each port

And sushi. Definitely sushi.

[proven spire]

Also don't forget RF is a gas so u don't even have to manage fluid dynamics on the way to those generators luckily

[fringe pawn]

Drones are at their best transporting stuff that's stack size 200 or 500, or low volume like supercomputers. But I've used them for raw sulfur going to nuclear before.

[tranquil canopy]

seriously??? nice

[proven spire]

Yeah.. u are mixing 2 fluids into 1 gas xD

[tranquil canopy]

oh, and i get compact coal as a byproduct,....alright then, they really make you start workin those logistic chops towards the back end the game dont they

[past reef]

compact coal is not too bad though you can make turbofuel and refeed into input from base rocket fuel, or just make a bunch of steel

[gray peak]

or make weapons

[tranquil canopy]

im using nitro fuel alt recipe so that doesnt work as easily XD, my plan is to set up a small generator subsection running on turbo fuel to offset the byproducts, difficult? no, but more work lol

[past reef]

you do need a sink at the end, but steel is super space efficient for HMF stuff

either way you need to make 3 things for 1 thing to work lol

[fringe pawn]

Compacted steel ingot is an option for dealing with byproduct

[gray peak]

you can also just burn it

[livid meteor]

yea, this might turn out problematic

[fringe pawn]

I'm giving dark ion fuel another look. Does it have any other use than maybe small batches of jetpack fuel? Because of the fact that it uses 2.4 rocket fuel per 1 ionized fuel, for vehicles and power generation, you're better off just using the 2.4x rocket fuel.

[magic island]

I think it's intended as a way to spend excess dark crystals from certain T9 processes, if you haven't already balanced them to net zero

[fringe pawn]

If you're making crystals you don't need to balance anything, you can just sink them

[magic island]

I prefer to balance crystals and residue so there's less waste and I don't have to spend as much SAM creating residue from scratch

regardless, it's a potential way to make something from crystals instead of sinking them, so "but I could just keep sinking them" is a weird reaction

[fringe pawn]

But what you're making is worse than just using the rocket fuel. So you're coming out worse in both sink points and fuel potential.

[magic island]

tbh that's more an issue with ionized fuel in general (default or dark) not being tuned for power plant use

it is nicer for the jetpack, so if you have a dark crystal surplus somewhere, it's not unreasonable to put it toward upgrading your jetpack fuel

[ornate radish]

This is kinda off topic but if the satisfactory calculator website is wrong where should I go to report it

[fringe pawn]

Default at least presents a more interesting argument because it's one rocket fuel per one ionized fuel. And maybe you're farming dark matter through powershard production.

I'm not sure which calculator you are referring to, but each one has their own Discord server

[gray flower]

Should i do 480 per minute of water extractor into 8 packagers for water until i have better belts

[ornate radish]

Thx

[sand furnace]

Ima cry. Either my VIP junctions work flawlessly or they just don't work at all

[vapid gorge]

they are indeed finicky :\ it's why I avoid them entirely

[sand furnace]

I have so much water recycling to do.

[vapid gorge]

I prioritise reliability with my pipe

so dedicate some machines to use only the waste water

like this

I haven't run into a system in the game yet where you have to mix fresh and waste product

[sand furnace]

I just designed myself into a corner is all

[gray flower]

should i

[fringe pawn]

The only time I've run into issues with wastewater is clocks with repeating decimals. I raised the clocks on a water extractor to go from 90 to 96.67 by entering 90+(20/3). It was to deal with some residual rubber I think? At any rate, that should have worked, but it started backing up my aluminum refineries.

[vapid gorge]

why not pipe it?

[vapid gorge]

that's one of the common issues yes

[fringe pawn]

Otherwise pairs of refineries with a water extractor feeding 90 has always worked for me.

The polymer resin just goes into its own system.

[humble remnant]

i meant to ask, do you need to prefill the waste water pipes for this setup?

[vapid gorge]

noooooo it's basically the only time you absolutely dont' want to

[vapid gorge]

basically the whole system slowly spins up to 100% as the waste water balances out the production

[sand furnace]

My last aluminum set up the VIP worked 100% perfect. tore it all down to add MK3 miners, and now its constantly backing up T.T

Guess ima use it for other production

[vapid gorge]

yup, that's why I do the most reliable set ups cause I can't be asked messing with it

[vapid gorge]

why not use it for the bauxite?

[sand furnace]

Cause. Im stubborn.

[vapid gorge]

it's basically what you're doing now but w/o the waters connected and some clocking

[sand furnace]

1980 bauxite. Everything 250% OC

It's a fools errand at this point.

[vapid gorge]

gl with it

[fringe pawn]

It looks like there's somehow room to turn 50 of my 450 rocket fuel into ion fuel within my 450m point factory, so that's cool.

[humble remnant]

okay thank you

[ashen girder]

I'd be down for trying to get it running if you'd be willing to send me your save.

I'm a fool that likes running errands. 😄

[livid meteor]

Ok, since most of my blueprints are set up, is there a guide or list of most resource-efficient blueprints? I wanna try to max out my points

[sand furnace]

Maaaaaybbbeee

[ashen girder]

Seriously, I've been doing it all week! 😄

I've been looking for broken builds to confirm some theories I have about how pipes actually work.

[fringe pawn]

TLDR, go for 65 warp drives and 128 AI expansion servers. That's 450m points, everything beyond that is peanuts.

Do not research power augmenters, you need that sloop for warp drives.

[livid meteor]

Are warp drives really the best you can do with your resources to get points?

[ashen girder]

Yes.

Every improvement doubles the points of its ingredients.

So you need the item with the most processing steps by default.

[fringe pawn]

26 250% clocked warp drive manufactuers is the play. After that, you want to maximize AI servers.

[livid meteor]

It seems like just doing the last step uses up a lot more resources when you could already sink the propulsion rocket

I guess make it 25 because I want to keep some resources for fun stuff like nobelisk production

[ashen girder]

BWD is 2.1 million more points than the TPR.

[fringe pawn]

Additionally, you're going to want to try and go under 1TW of power by strategically underclocking the heavy hitters for power.

[livid meteor]

Hmmm, okay I'm gonna lower my standards

I want to go giga power factory

So I can spam drones

[fringe pawn]

This is what I'm currently toying with. I'm trying to break it into pieces, basically.

[ashen girder]

Good news! Not only is Rocket Fuel awesome power, it's great drone fuel. 😄

[livid meteor]

Na, I use plutonium fuel rods for that

All my drones get plutonium rods

[ashen girder]

Satanist.

[fringe pawn]

I'm including some rocket fuel for progression.

[livid meteor]

[fringe pawn]

I'm very for plutonium drones as well, but I'm also going to burn some of the rods for power.

[livid meteor]

So is there a list of "most resource efficient" recipes?

I could imagine it's pretty complicated cuz of sam now

[ashen girder]

Whatever SFtools pops out when you're talking that scale.

Its default weighting is using max extractable resources of the map.

[vapid gorge]

generally most 'resource efficient' recipes just trade for different resources to use

except the pure ingot types

[fringe pawn]

SAM is the key resource, yes. Once you're out of somersloops for warp drives, if they ever add more, probably the next optimal use for them would be to sloop the SAM constructors.

[livid meteor]

For example I'm not sure if the alt crystal oscillator is good. I could use the normal one and only use iron and quartz

[raven pasture]

should i keep them in library or pick one of them insta? I am at phase 2

[ashen girder]

Solid steel is amazing.

[past reef]

Solid steel simplifies setup a lot its super nice

[vapid gorge]

recipes are good if they do what you want them to

in your example, the alt for oscilators trades using some oil for less crystal

[vapid gorge]

is that good? only you can decide

[fringe pawn]

Most resource efficient gets weird when you're pushing map limits. For instance I think I'm required to use compacted steel ingot. And I need to use all 3 of turbo, pink, and oil diamonds.

[raven pasture]

so until I start building steel (which is soon) should i just keep this unpicked to block basic iron ingot?

[ashen girder]

Nah, basic iron's pretty good too.

[past reef]

But a manufacturer for 1/2.5 per minute base crystal oscillator isnt really nice for space

[ashen girder]

And you can use those two together for great effect.

[livid meteor]

I guess I go with the alt oscillators then

Cuz first thing I need to do is fix my nuclear power recycling. I'm lacking crystal oscilators

[fringe pawn]

Alt oscillators use less quartz which is likely what you want in the end.

But oil becomes precious too.

[vapid gorge]

yeah if adding some complexity to the system and using some oil to stretch out crystal for you is good? do it. Use the crystal for something else.

if you don't need the crystal for something else? eh, use the base?

[livid meteor]

once I got 100GW going, I can slowy start to grow

[past reef]

I really want to have another crystal oscillator alt to save space more

[raven pasture]

also got these and dunno which ones to keep blocked and which ones to pick. Heard that stitched iron plate is good (already got Iron wire)

[past reef]

4.5 per manufacturer on alt is probably fine for now ig

[livid meteor]

100GW is like 1k drone ports right?

[vapid gorge]

as mentioned above - recipes are good in different situations and needs.

so if they do a thing you want to do? they are good for you

[past reef]

Stitched plate less iron more space iirc

[verbal lake]

I snap pick +6 inventory slots, 😆

[vapid gorge]

I've used basically each of these recipes over my play time at some point or other

[fringe pawn]

I like stiched plate with iron wire. +inventory is always nice. The rest are marginal IMO. They all have uses, but leave them sitting until you need them.

[ashen girder]

Inventory slots and stitched iron plate are immediately useful. Steamed copper sheets is pretty handy later on.

[past reef]

Avoid bolted stuff until you have mk4 belt though

[ashen girder]

Keep in mind, there are more hard drives than alt recipes. You will end up with 5 left over drives if you collect all of them and pick everything.

[vapid gorge]

just direct feed screws into the machine

they do benefit from steel screws though

[raven pasture]

isnt that the reason of +6 inv space or they are limited as well?

[ashen girder]

They're limited as well. There's one 6 and one 5.

[past reef]

I only consider bolted for space cause steel/alu screw

[ashen girder]

It will eventually only give you one choice.

[raven pasture]

ahhh i see thank you all for tips

[livid meteor]

Urgh I think my drone madness can quickly become a mess

[past reef]

I can do that but when I do space build the OC'd screw recipe needs them good belt

[livid meteor]

I noticed that I can't have an A -> B setup while B -> C. Because when B can't deliver to C cuz C is full, B will chill and block the docking for A

So I guess in the end I will need to make a central stroage distributing resources to each prodction site via drones

does anyone know how long a plutonium rod lasts in a drone?

[ashen girder]

Hours, I believe.

[livid meteor]

nice

[ashen girder]

The numbers in the UI don't make sense. 😦

[livid meteor]

At least I found a use for plutonium rods now

To fuel my drone madness

[fringe pawn]

Quartz purification and distilled silica and technically resource efficient, it appears. If you want to maximize simply one or the other, pure quartz crystal and cheap silica are what you want. But if you want to maximize a combination of the two, need to throw quartz purification into the mix. Oof.

[livid meteor]

I see. The nitric acid thing is interesting

Still hard for me to judge how valuable nitrogen is

Seems like biggest value is for uranium recycling

[fringe pawn]

The interesting thing I'm running into is that you can't use cloudy diamonds because you need to stick to the most coal efficient alts. Even though limestone is a trash resource, different resource constraints limit the ways you can use it.

To the point where I'm probably going to do default concrete as a power efficiency consideration.

[livid meteor]

Yea, I feel every recipe that would use limestone is a good recipe

I'm also curious if they nerf/change the sam-> uranium conversion rate to make the plutonium recycling actually worth

[vapid gorge]

I've tried but I haven't found a situatino where I needed both a ton of crystal and silica yet, very sad

[fringe pawn]

I don't see any circumstance where ficsonium is worth it besides novelty.

[livid meteor]

Yea maybe they need to give those rods some extra energy

I mean there is legit no point

Right now plutonium is drone fuel

[fringe pawn]

It's actually the SAM required to make ficsonium that kills it. They'd need to make ficsonium preposterously good for it to be worth the effort.

[livid meteor]

Maybe lower the amount of ficsonium required? Or increase the output

just the ficsonium to rods rate needs to improve I guess

I've never made any cuz I got told from the beginning: just don't

[amber jacinth]

Eayup

Ficsonium barely breaks even on power required to create it- coupled with the insane resources and added complexity, it really isn’t worth it.

[vapid gorge]

that counts as a lot of things people do in the game, let things be for their novelty 😛

it basically exists only for those people who complained about wanting to burn p rods w/o having permanent waste. Because people like to complain

[amber jacinth]

Fine! you want a solution!? HAVE THIS!

[vapid gorge]

exactly. I honestly kinda wish it was energy negative in result

plus lots of people enjoy complicated set ups

[fringe pawn]

I think it is energy negative? And you can't even get rid of all the plutonium waste you can make on the typical 22.4 plutonium rod setup.

[amber jacinth]

can confirm

[amber jacinth]

I calculated it out as 110MJ per rod, using base recipes and assuming only 1 rod/min is being created.

[vapid gorge]

really? that... seems unusual, but I love it if true

[fringe pawn]

There might be a way to eliminate all the plutonium waste from 22.4 rods if you sloop every SAM constructor possible and double your SAM?

[amber jacinth]

yes

wait, maybe not that lol

It's mainly the trigons taking up RSAM, and slooping those provides better output than slooped RSAM... I think.

[fringe pawn]

Down this road is madness, either way, it's simpler and better to sink plutonium rods and make augmenters. Or honestly, just stick to diluted fuel.

Sloop both?

[livid meteor]

Wait, why would plutonium waste be a problem? You can create fuel rods and sink them, no?

[amber jacinth]

But then no fancy ceiling lamps 😔

[livid meteor]

oh wait never min plutonium waste...

I'm not gonna burn plutonium fuel rods

My drones can deal with them

[dim nova]

Numbers werent making sense, so now im getting out the google sheets

[amber jacinth]

Like going off of this (60/15/75 rods of each), you can sloop the RSAM to get the 3125 needed from 2550, or you can stick with 2125 and sloop 14x 250% OC'd converters and get the trigons out instead.

[fringe pawn]

What about for 224 plutonium waste? That's what used to be considered 'best nuclear' through update 8.

[amber jacinth]

I really tried to get more than that amount of rods out, I really did.
But I always ended up with too much plutonium waste on the table, and not enough map resources to help with ficsonium.

[fringe pawn]

It's an amusing challenege in itself, whether you can use 104 sloops to eliminate all 224 waste.

[amber jacinth]

I think tools gave up lol

Couldn't be me forgetting to input waste, definitely not

[fringe pawn]

We've all been there

The sinister one getting me lately is updating the amount of waste when I toy with how much plutonium I want to make.

[amber jacinth]

I mean... https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Vw6pxR8BfZHtQUq6NNgJ

[dim nova]

oh boy im getting to the part where i get autosave lag

[prisma kraken]

PSA: titan forest is really a lot more trecherous at night

[teal urchin]

Basic thing of rotors done.. Now I just gotta do modular frames, reinforced iron plates.
Thinking ima do these like.. Stacked, 1 on each floor. Assuming I can make that fit lmao.

[prisma kraken]

if you're considering building there, get an area cleared out during the daytime to prevent the spider spawns

i just finished clearing the area of slugs and artifacts, and i think it honestly may be worse than the swamp at this point

[river coral]

Question, which is more resource efficient when making a Rocket Fuel Power Plant? Heavy Oil Residue, Diluted Fuel, and Turbo Blend Fuel or is it Nitro Rocket Fuel and everything that comes with that?

[prisma kraken]

it kind of depends on the metric you wish to measure it by

[ashen girder]

Titan Forest has more angry spiders, Swamp has more angry nuke hogs.

They're also the two roughest biomes on the map now.

[river coral]

I mean explicitly raw resources, not electricity or machines. Aka I like the nitro Rocket Recipe but the Sulfur requirements scare me.

[prisma kraken]

here's a basic info graph of the 4 paths to rocket fuel, normalized to 600 sulfur as input

if you were to normalize it to crude instead, you'd end up with a different comparison

[river coral]

Oh damn, what site is that?

[prisma kraken]

sp.runesune.com

[river coral]

Huh

[prisma kraken]

it's a planner for factories, i find it useful but many people find it too difficult to use

sorry, sp.runesun.com

had an extra e in the url

really it is more of a tool for planning out factories you want to build and bookkeeping your production than something like sftools that calculates it all out for you

i find the factory roll-up view in the tool pretty sweet for doing side-by-side comparisons of recipe chains though

[river coral]

Ngl pretty great, thats the feature I like

[prisma kraken]

what i like is that it lets you start with a goal and fill in the recipes you want and work your way down, other tools kind of just pick things for you like pure iron and you have to fight them to avoid picking things that are difficult to build

[crystal charm]

i'm having an issue with water in and water out of a small aluminium factory

[prisma kraken]

we really should start a topic bingo

[crystal charm]

the math is 800 wpm in and 480 wpm out, and every other fluid system i've built is stable but this one

[prisma kraken]

aluminum is very finnicky as to how you build it

[fallen geyser]

No SFTools I do not need to use the pure copper and steamed sheets alts to generate the 25 copper sheets/min I need for ammo please god I'm already running water to half the shit in this building

[fringe pawn]

Default uses less sulfur, more oil. Alt swaps that. There aren't enough other uses for sulfur to be concerned, IMO.

[prisma kraken]

there's a couple of ways to work around problems, but what you probably are running into is that if scrap production's output ever stalls, more water will enter the system from the extractors than should, and that causes it to lock up

[fringe pawn]

Is it also telling you to convert other resources into copper ore before feeding into pure copper? 😛

[fallen geyser]

the way I did it was having the initial startup pumps and the pumps used during steady state operation on separate pipes and hooked the extractors for the startup pipe to a switch

[fallen geyser]

yes lmfao

[prisma kraken]

tbh, i've been finding that it does some wacky things with converter recipes

[fallen geyser]

Start the system, wait for stuff to back up, turn off the startup extractors, then run around fiddling with flushing pipe segments until everything runs fine

[neat bolt]

If you want a different topic, I got one, and it is whether the train stations are ok the way I put them down (Ignore the ones at the top)
Honestly my main concern is that they'll congest on the outer ring, due to having to go around most of it to get to the exits again

[fallen geyser]

I like having the startup pumps still there and ready to turn back on in case I fuck up nuclear power really badly down the line and cause a global blackout

[prisma kraken]

any large centralized multi-stop train station is going to have shared lines that are going to be in contention. the basic idea is that you want your design to get the trains off the shared rails asap and out of the stations quickly as well

[neat bolt]

The question is just how to do it in this giant octagon

[prisma kraken]

here's what i'm working on for a central hub

[cursive heron]

was the oil resource well always in the gold coast

[prisma kraken]

nah, that's new

its a good addition as well, the 1800 oil that was there really wasn't enough imho

[fringe pawn]

Rocky desert remains a super easy place to play the game as a result.

[fallen geyser]

lol do i spy some slooped up assemblers making project parts

the unaligned buildings

[ashen girder]

Manus too looks like.

[prisma kraken]

well, they're idle at this point

i should probably reclaim those sloops and add a few more levels to my tower of stupid:

[fallen geyser]

broke: automate everything as you go, updating production lines as needed
woke: genocide the wildlife every few days and sloop up the resultant biomass for tickets to buy everything you need to make project parts (also slooped) so you can max out the tech tree and actually start building stuff you won't need to tear down later

[sand furnace]

Are drones bugged? I have a bunch, and sometimes it says drone out of fuel even if the stats say it should be fine

[fallen geyser]

i still don't have packaged turbofuel automated and probably never will at this rate, looks like im going straight from regular to rocket fuel for my jetpack because it was always easier to just buy the packaged turbofuel for 4 tix

[fallen geyser]

the numbers on the drone ports straight up lie to you about fuel costs iirc

[prisma kraken]

i gave rocket fuel a swing in the jetpack, and really i still like LBF better

[fallen geyser]

i see the appeal but personally im usually trying to go up ASAP

[fringe pawn]

I like the high acceleration fuels for exploration, but in combat I definitely like biofuel.

[fallen geyser]

people love to hype up how long you can glide with LBF but you can get almost as much distance off turbofuel since each impulse gets you further

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'll switch if i'm doing a lot of climbing, but more what i find useful is being able to hover above hogs till their dead

[fallen geyser]

interesting, i hate biofuel in combat because i feel like i keep stubbing my toes on charging hogs

turbofuel lets me jump over them

[prisma kraken]

the trick is to just never land 😄

[river coral]

Ya thats what I saw. I wanted to use around 2100 crude oil but that makes like… 8400 rocket fuel when using 52% of the worlds sulfur? That kinda scares me

Its exciting but scary

[fallen geyser]

Wanna get really scared?

Calc how many generators you need to burn that lol

And then how many power shards you need to cut that number down

[river coral]

2016

[fallen geyser]

You literally need to cover the ocean

[river coral]

Ya-

[prisma kraken]

well 2000 rf needs 192 generators @250%

[fringe pawn]

I know overbuilding power can give peace of mind, but that many fuel generators is a solution in search of a problem.

[fallen geyser]

Right, and then I can go build said problem without causing brownouts

[fringe pawn]

Do you actually need that mcuh power though?

[prisma kraken]

i kind of wish you could turn excess power into tickets or something, lol

[fallen geyser]

I'm sure at some point I'll reach the level of optimization where I'm only making exactly as much power as I need to convert every other resource on the map into the max tickets possible, but right now I just never want to think about my power grid again

[fallen geyser]

Tier 10: FICSIT Crypto Mining

[river coral]

Based

[fringe pawn]

8400 rocket fuel is 504,000MW. That's getting to what you'd need for a planetary build.

[amber jacinth]

Aiming for the 1% 100x buildings optimization route?

[river coral]

Nah, I fucking doubt I do, honestly building this big for fun ngl- I just don’t know if I want crude oil big or sulfur big. Always was the plan to have 1000+ gen. But I might not go 2k lol

[fringe pawn]

100,000 MW is enough to comfortably get yourself through phase 5 and get a golden nut.

[fallen geyser]

Lol yeah I guess technically the most power-optimal solution is to have everything underclocked to 1% and idle for a few months

[amber jacinth]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/AWESOME_Sink/Theoretical_maximum_of_points jumpscare

[fallen geyser]

At that point handcrafting would be faster

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure how correct that article is anymore

[fallen geyser]

"Do we research the power amplification technology in a MAM? The most optimal solution is to not use power amplifiers at all, so it is possible to save 1 somersloop by not researching power amplifiers. For the calculations below I assume that this 1 extra somersloop is available. If you are going to build some of these and you already spent this somersloop, remove it from one of the AI Expansion Server buildings." lmfao

[fringe pawn]

There are reddit posts with new max point calculations.

[amber jacinth]

I mean hey, min-maxing is min-maxing 😛

[fallen geyser]

It feels wrong that you don't need any power amplifiers for max points but I guess it makes sense

those 10 loops are doing more in project part assemblers

[amber jacinth]

Even pre-1.0 nuclear power held up for the majority of players' big builds

[fringe pawn]

1500 rocket fuel is enough for 360 (less through overclocking them, 144 at 250% each) fuel generators and 90,000MW. I think that also gives you clean building numbers regardless of the rocket fuel alt you use.

[amber jacinth]

Is it not updated for 1.0?

[fallen geyser]

you weren't kidding about the jumpscare lmfao

[fringe pawn]

Interesting, they sloop two of the AI makers?

[fallen geyser]

Come, let me show you around my modest Iron Wire manufacturing plant with 500k constructors

[fallen geyser]

Looks like that's when they ran out of sloops

[prisma kraken]

it's been updated, but i don't believe we have an idea of 'optimal' yet

[fallen geyser]

The fact there is an objectively correct answer out there is great though

[fringe pawn]

My planning is 26 250% warp drive manufacturers using all 104 sloops. And 128 AI expanders. Over 450 mil points right there.

[amber jacinth]

Ah, fair.

[prisma kraken]

from the looks of the stats, it seems like napkin math based on some brute force assumptions

[fallen geyser]

This game having a fixed map makes it so much weirder than other factory games

[ashen girder]

Strongly suggest skipping the 1% build and looking at the 100% and 250% builds instead.

[fallen geyser]

Why would I skip someone mathematically justifying building half a million iron wire constructors at 1%

[amber jacinth]

Slooping makes 1.0 stuff pretty wacky, as seen from the reddit article on slooping pre-final product buildings to produce more at the cost of more abundant resources

Love it, the more engagement with the community the better

[fringe pawn]

The better play is all your encoders, particle accelerators, and other heavy hitters at 5%, then clocking all the rest for convenience.

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure that solvers like sftools are capable of finding optimal anymore

[fallen geyser]

Oh my god wait I missed the best part

All of these points are going to a single sink on the same belt

To minimize power use

[amber jacinth]

Stuff was really set in stone before- make xx plutonium & xxx uranium for max power
Now all the numbers are up in the air and still being figured out today (which is impressive for this community)

[fringe pawn]

Optimal play is likely going under 1TW of power.

[amber jacinth]

I love that the decisions are being left up to the user. Creates more subjective play that way.

[prisma kraken]

like i've not seen any analysis done assuming you can double your sam by slooping the sam constructors

[amber jacinth]

tbf, ~30% of somersloops is not a great use-case :P

[fringe pawn]

You can more than double SAM by slooping the trigon constructors as well.

[prisma kraken]

it's ~33% (34 needed)

[fallen geyser]

But if I wanted subjective play I'd be doing something other than engineering

There's an answer out there, taunting us

[amber jacinth]

haha

Fair enough!
Give it a few weeks, this community is relentless

[neat bolt]

Oh god, this is getting exponentially more complex...

[fallen geyser]

Also the calcs get really stupid if you allow the glitch that lets you straight up duplicate items with belt merging black magicks

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it is just a matter of time, but i just don't feel like the solution can be obtained with linear programming anymore

[fallen geyser]

Since you can just have infinite sloops

So every building is slooped and you get infinite power off a single biofuel burner

[amber jacinth]

Never heard of it... probably will never use that myself

[fallen geyser]

i cant find the reddit post but basically you do something involving placing and deleting a merger in such a way that it tries to merge a belt onto itself

Which in turn somehow causes any item on it to double when it passes that point

So you end up with a revolving sushi belt of infinite sloops to pull from

[amber jacinth]

💀

[prisma kraken]

its too bad the split stack bug isn't around anymore

that was so broken

[neat bolt]

Quick Q: anyone got a rocket fuel setup that is less of a mess than what I got planned

[fallen geyser]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fq6egy/infinite_somersloop_mercer_spheres_hard_drives_in/

[fallen geyser]

Absolutely not

[fringe pawn]

I mean, if you're intentionally exploiting a duplication bug, but may as well jsut save edit whatever items you want anyway.

[prisma kraken]

i have the blended tf portion of a 2000 rf/min build done

[neat bolt]

Oh god

... @strong palm hey, can I just make Rocket Fuel for power your problem?

[fallen geyser]

okay tbf that graph is also making turbo ammo and cluster nobelisks and packaged rocket fuel and rubber and plastic on the side with the byproducts

[prisma kraken]

pretty straight forward:

[strong palm]

hmm?

[fallen geyser]

If you want to literally just make rocket fuel and sink the polymer it gets a lot less intimidating

[neat bolt]

LOOK AT THIS

[prisma kraken]

on the map:

[shut marlin]

I hate that this conversation talked me into redesigning my factory for rocket fuel since I'm making turbo fuel next to a nitrogen node...

[fallen geyser]

Hey have you looked up how many generators you need to burn 3900 rocket fuel? 🙂

[sand furnace]

i FIGURED SOMETHING OUT ABOUT VIP JUNCTIONS

[neat bolt]

LALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I DON'T WANNA THINK ABOUT

[amber jacinth]

me, with 7500 from the blue crater

[fallen geyser]

And then how many power shards it would take to reduce that to a manageable number

[shut marlin]

Make fuel, ask questions later

[neat bolt]

Sloop + slug = profit

[fallen geyser]

You're gonna need like 2k shards lol

[strong palm]

I mean

[prisma kraken]

well, 2000 rf needs 576 shards, revise your estimate downward

[strong palm]

technically shards are infinite because lizard dogs

[prisma kraken]

technically shards are infinite because you can make them

[amber jacinth]

Also because they're fabricated in T9 stuff

[strong palm]

ah

[fallen geyser]

That's not even "technical"

[strong palm]

yeah we didnt get to that yet

[fallen geyser]

The unlock is literally named "artificial power shards"

[amber jacinth]

I feel guilty because I beat the game with 30 fuels gens worth of power, and a lot of waiting around

[fallen geyser]

But that means you have access to T9 and nuclear power is probably giving you some meaningful sideways glances

[amber jacinth]

Never built a factory for anything past turbo motors (and mk6 belt parts)

[obtuse plover]

Is it possible to split 220 into 85 and 135? Without the need of manifold

[fallen geyser]

me neither unless a slooped up assembler fed from storage containers counts lol

[prisma kraken]

i mean, i'm not even at t9 yet and...

[amber jacinth]

🔥

0.5 nuclear pasta/min goes hard for phase 5 lol

[fallen geyser]

What are you trying to do exactly? With ratios this weird it's usually easier to just manifold it

You'd have to break the belt down into a ton of tiny/slow belts and then merge them back in a specific way

[rotund summit]

is there anything i can improve on in this electronics setup?

[vapid gorge]

@heady jacinth ok so mk1 pipes can only move 300pm

The diagram examples have inputs at different spots so no one spot needs to go over max 🙂

[fallen geyser]

Like get throughput down to 60 using mk1s, then split that in thirds, then those thirds into halves, then those halves into halves again. Voila, a shitload of 5/s belts

[heady jacinth]

Bro

[fallen geyser]

And then merge them as needed

[heady jacinth]

Can you just call me and show me how to build it?

[vapid gorge]

I’m on the bus sorry

[heady jacinth]

Dang it

[prisma kraken]

🤦

[vapid gorge]

What do you not understand about these examples?

You could also just have 6 coal gens and 1 pipe? If that makes it easier for you

[heady jacinth]

How would I split that?

[sand furnace]

@vapid gorge Apparantly, all my VIPs work when I rebuilt them in a specific way. I built the wastewater pipe first and the connected it to the machine. THEN I connected the freshwater to the top of the wastewater.

[vapid gorge]

Exactly like the diagram , the dotted lines are pipes

[amber jacinth]

Can't force 360 fluid/min through a pipe that states it can only handle 300/min

Just... doesn't work

[fallen geyser]

If it helps at all, the way I usually do my setups is with one water extractor underclocked to 90/s feeding two coal gens

[heady jacinth]

Wouldn't that last coal plant only get like 1 a minute?

[vapid gorge]

Wild.

A big reason I only do consistent set ups XD

[fallen geyser]

x4 for the 8 coal gens to consume a belt

[obtuse plover]

Okay i see that will be too much splitting. If i use manifold, am i assured to get 85 output, when the manifold gets filled up?

[amber jacinth]

If you're okay with the last two gens not running at 100% efficiency.. then you're good to go 😛

[sand furnace]

Oh yeah, next time I will probably make sure I have a wastewater production use instead of recycling it

[vapid gorge]

Like all manifolds, when the first machines are full more flows down the end

[heady jacinth]

Oh

Oh no, mobs are respawning

[amber jacinth]

If the math checks out, manifolds will always work

[fallen geyser]

Yes, you can just put a regular splitter there and eventually the line going to reinforced plates will back up and only accept 85/min, leaving the remaining 135/min to go to modular frames

[vapid gorge]

exit stage left, chased by bears

[fallen geyser]

I know manifolds seem scary and don't sound like they should work but I promise you, your gameplay experience will get 100x easier when you learn to just trust them

[heady jacinth]

Okay

[crystal charm]

anyone know why my billboards and signs always end up upside down?

[amber jacinth]

Trust your math! Scary for anyone, especially engineers 😛

[obtuse plover]

And vice verca i guess? 😅

[fallen geyser]

It's always the slower line that backs up

Think of it with lower tier belts instead of stuff backing up. If you had a full Mk3 going into a splitter with a Mk3 on one output and a Mk1 on the other, you'd obviously expect to see 60/min on the Mk1 and the remaining 210/s on the Mk3

A line feeding into a backed-up building is effectively a lower tier belt with a throughput limited to exactly what that building can consume

Manifolds look scary because they require most of the belts inside the system to be backed up during normal operation, but if you look at the root input belt and net output belt, they should both be moving at full throughput if you did your math right, just like if you had balanced it

Right now the only use cases where you "need" to use balancers are for feeding early-game biofuel generator arrays (manifolds only work right if the input is infinite) and managing nuclear waste (you take radiation damage standing next to backed up buildings)

Also you can jump-start the usual warmup period for manifolds by running down the line and manually cramming every building full of its input materials before powering it on

[amber jacinth]

Only caveat for manifolds is the fill time- it does technically still work for nuclear, but the extremely long fill times (as a result of low production & consumption times) is their drawback.

[quiet breach]

Just read the pipeline manual or whatever it’s called. Dude is a G who wrote that. Blown away

[fallen geyser]

Also also it is tempting with manifolds sometimes to use lower-tier belts where the throughput isn't needed. You will hear a voice in your head saying "ooh this building only consumes 60/s, use a Mk1 belt between it and the splitter". This voice is the Devil. If you listen to it you will accidentally put down a Mk1 on the main supply line that causes a bottleneck that will take hours to diagnose

[amber jacinth]

Always use the mk of belt most feasible for your setup, unless some edge use-case presents itself

[fallen geyser]

Also by the time it does work every building will be literally as radioactive as possible

I like it personally, it's a really clever way to incentivize balancers in the endgame

[heady jacinth]

Okay, I think I fixed the issue

[crystal charm]

it's time for me to get started on uranium production and ugh, i'm not ready

mentally that is

[amber jacinth]

real

[heady jacinth]

Bruh

One coal factory is still down

Nvm, forgot to connect a pipe

[swift portal]

Is there a number of uranium fuel rod burners that makes a waste-per-minute amount that helps plutonium production

I have 4 atm for 40/min and I can’t figure out a ratio

[vapid gorge]

Be a bit more specific? There’s no restrictions on how to produce rods from any waste number

[swift portal]

Sorry I’m not explaining myself well. What I mean is, I want to convert my existing uranium waste to plutonium, at 40/minute. I need to figure out if that number divides into plutonium production evenly, or if a different number of uranium burners will help.

[vapid gorge]

Evenly? As in you only want 1 per min not 1.5 rods?

[fringe pawn]

2.25 uranium rods to 1 plutonium rod IIRC. Scaling that up you end up with 9 and 4 of each rod, respectively.

Assuming use of alts.

[long shuttle]

are crystal computers worth it if i want to consolidate a computer and crystal oscillator factory?

or should i just keep them seperate and use something like caterium computers

i have all the alt recipes for computers, cbs, and cos

[gray peak]

both computer alts are viable imo
I like crystal computers a little better personally but ofc like with most alts it's pretty individual

[golden grove]

how can I charge this faster? no way and I just have to wait?

[fringe pawn]

I've used crystal computers. They can be convenient for the reasons you mentioned, and you can get radio control unit going in the same complex.

The default computer recipe change was very solid, now all 3 computer recipes are viable and very different.

[long shuttle]

how often are radio conrol units used? I haven't gotten to them yet

[fringe pawn]

They're very important

[gray peak]

they aren't used for too many things but they're quite important and needed in decently large quantity

[fringe pawn]

They're used both as an ingredient in more advanced parts and as part of the construction cost of advanced buildings.

There are 3 recipes for RCUs, so how you want to proceed with them depends on the structure of your logistics. But circling back, crystal computers are quite viable.

In particular, if you're going to sloop computers, crystal computers are only in an assembler.

[gray peak]

sloops brought a use to oc supercomputer recipe

[long shuttle]

ok so then im wondering if i should continue my isolated factories approach and start huge consolidated factories

[fringe pawn]

Isolated factories will never stop working, especially because you're on the verge of drones.

[gray peak]

there's no one right way to do it
just go with the flow
expanda factory if you feel like it, start a second (or third of whatever) one if you feel like doing that instead

[long shuttle]

well i mean like start from scratch within each factory

like if i were to make supercomputers, with my current strategy i wouldn't pull from any other factory source

and just do everything onsite

is that viable?

[gray peak]

sure

[long shuttle]

oh hmm then i have some thinking to do lol

[fringe pawn]

Huh, I was ragging on dark ion fuel for weirdly needing packaged rocket fuel. Turbo diamonds does the same thing. Maybe plastic adds something to quantum tech. 😛

[spring tide]

I found this graph in a yt vid, is there anything else that can be done from iron ore only?

[fringe pawn]

Motors. Throw in some concrete and also HMFs.

[indigo bloom]

Be careful, making motors and rotors from iron takes a LOT of iron

Of the 500 iron 248 is going into iron pipe

[spring tide]

I plan to build it, and connect it to 3 industrial (each output), and then to dimensional depot uploader. From 2 pure iron nodes I can have all those always ready when I need manual crafting. Dont plan hooking it to other factories

[wind spade]

3 containers are very likely an oveekill

@tame geyser see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[radiant lance]

hi yall, i'm setting up my aluminium production and I've got three nodes of bauxite feeding the factory, but they're all different purities and I'd like to load balance them out a bit before putting them through the whole factory to simplify the production lines a bit. I'm not used to load balancing so I'm unsure how I should go about it.

I have MK.5 belts available. miner A is producing 150/m, miner B is producing 300/m, and miner C is producing 600/m

[fringe pawn]

Recipes?

[radiant lance]

I manifold pretty much everything and having three mini lines in here w different production amounts feels kinda grody

[wind spade]

You can also just connect each miner to machines that would eat exactly that much

[fringe pawn]

Clock your alumina and scrap refineries at 75% if you want all identical clocks. Or clock one alumina and one scrap at 25%. Use overflow splitters to get the excess bauxite to feed from one to the next, and inject new bauxite as you go.

[radiant lance]

hmgmge

i shall toy around and see what comes out best

oh you're right, 75% would work on each set of refineries. I can make a blueprint for each stage and just paste it depending on the number of refineries each miner needs

[cursive heron]

divide your alumina scrap to your max belt speed (which im assuming is 780), then just setup separate modules from smelter to scrap to alumina to output exactly that amount which should give you 3 belts. Then just use smart splitters or a 3x3 balancer

[radiant lance]

yeah, 780 max

[cursive heron]

It would be a lot cleaner to divide it, especially since you have 1260 alumina input and the max pipe is 600. You'll have a lot less problems by cutting that into 3 modules of 420

[radiant lance]

yeah, without dividing it the way you say I'd overload my stuff w the pure node

it would need 4 75% refinery sets and that would produce too much to be clean

[latent dome]

Is it worth it to build power augmentors or should I just use the sloops to amplify uranium fuel rod production

[near yarrow]

Which is better?

1. Build trains

2. Build a road for vehicles

3. Build drones

4. Which vehicles are best? Supposedly the truck has more slots in eq, but from what I've seen nobody uses them.

[deft lichen]

You didn't mention "use natural roads for vehicles"

Trucks are a bit specific, because you're limited to locations with a fuel source at either destination

Trucks are also quite obtuse to set up, because you have to record the routes yourself

And if that's slower to do than build a belt, you didn't save any time

Building roads is even more of a waste of time

As for the other options, there is no universal best, it all depends on distance and throughput

[fringe pawn]

If you just want expediency, long belts win once you have the hoverpack and can place power lines as you go.

[deft lichen]

Aren't railways better at that

[fringe pawn]

If it's flat. If you want to do something like one of the high bauxite nodes down to the west coast oil wells, belts.

Even if it's flat, if you're only doing one belt and one pipe, it's kinda of a wash between a train and belt/pipe/power. Maybe 3-ish things.

[deft lichen]

But a railway is way more future proof

[fringe pawn]

Vehicles are obviously cooler, in which case style preference. 🤷

[deft lichen]

Double tracks, I mean

[fringe pawn]

I just don't find myself needing much that much throughput

[deft lichen]

Oh true, but it's not just about throughput

[fringe pawn]

Especially now that they gave us sloops and you need even less resources to finsh the game than ever.

[deft lichen]

You can keep on extending the railway network only from the nearest existing railway. With belts or pipes, you'd need to run it all the way

[wind spade]

Most people play to finish their goals, not the game

[fringe pawn]

The original poster defined no goals 🤷

Though that reminds me, I should trying automating trucks just to see what the pathing is like in 1.0

Or is it basically as it was in U8?

[deft lichen]

I haven't seen any mention of changes to this

So I assume it's the same as in U8, so same as in U5

[wind spade]

Which is pretty good state afaik

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, once they added ghosting, you get results when it comes to it.

I had a windy route through the southern dune desert rocky area that of course the game didn't actually handle well if you watched it. But I went ahead and just never did watched.

[deft lichen]

It's usable but I still don't really like it. For example, once I wanted to automate a route with 2 truck stations at both ends. I had to record two 98% similar routes only to drive into a different station at both ends

[wind spade]

Can do mixed cargo

[deft lichen]

The overall time to set it up was easily double that compared to just building 4 stacked belts

And it cost power and coal

[fringe pawn]

Drones are even more interesting now that they can do any fuel. And you just get so much oil.

[deft lichen]

Imo drones didn't need a buff but it's nice

[fringe pawn]

The weird locations of things like SAM can make them really handy, especially because you can plop constructors down to compress the SAM.

[worn trout]

Now hear me out

Train

[oblique hollow]

Blasphemy

[worn trout]

I fucking LOVE trains

[radiant lance]

trains my beloved

[alpine turret]

Since they added the whole dissolved sillica makeing both a lot of quartz crystals and silica, is there something in the end-game that requires many of these items?