math-and-meta

[worn heath]

ok

seems simple enough

[vapid gorge]

if you're at 72 coal gens I'd probably start looking at a diluted fuel power station

or turbo fuel if you're feeling fun

[hybrid star]

quick query, at tier 5 do you get more diluted fuel from packaging it or from making residual fuel, don't worry about the plastic its feeding the scrap machine

[worn heath]

I haven't unlocked turbo fuel. I'll probably just tone down my 72 coal generators as that does seem like overkill.

currently only using 12 generators, but I just unlocked mk2 miners and want to overclock them

[vapid gorge]

ime 48-64 is more than enough to get you to a nice advanced fuel station - depending onhow you do your factories. If you sink everything for constant flow you may want to look into fuel earlier.

[worn heath]

Do I want to put the water into a buffer like a water tower type thing? Or just directly into the generators

[vapid gorge]

nah avoid buffers in general

[worn heath]

kk

[frail whale]

True, and appreciate that your advice isn't situational, but all machines read 100% on efficiency clocker and its been that way for a few hours. will it lock up if the output backs up? thats my only worry.

[vapid gorge]

check out the example diagrams in the wiki

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[hybrid star]

Unless its coming off a train. Then a buffer is pretty important

[vapid gorge]

the direct feed method? yeah it'll lock up if it backs up
and I'm very dubious about the efficiency tracker. It used to be absolute balls, it's unlcear how much it lies now

[worn heath]

I've effectively done option 1, but none of these factor in gravity with building above the extractor?

[vapid gorge]

but also the direct feed method is essentially my set up but with waste and fresh connected.

imo basically zero benefit for rolling death dice

[worn heath]

One person saying to avoid, other saying important? 😕

[vapid gorge]

train platforms are basically the only place to use buffers

[hybrid star]

Only in the special instance of a train unload

[worn heath]

ohh

[vapid gorge]

also if you're doing number 1 you may just need a pump going up on each

[prisma kraken]

really to compensate for the train station lockout period, buffers are needed there, but it is the only time in the game you need them

[frail whale]

True, when I get a bit I'll switch to your method. thx for the help.

[prisma kraken]

people speaking out against fluid buffers have done their fair share of troubleshooting pipes and the problems buffers cause

[vapid gorge]

no stress. the dedicated waste method is useful for other set ups too, like acid in the nuclear chain, or dark matter residue.

[worn heath]

do buffers just not work properly? Seems like it'd make it simpler by getting enough into them and just having them waterfall to the target.

[vapid gorge]

they don't work like people expect them to

[prisma kraken]

no, it is that they mask underlying problems

[vapid gorge]

and they have behaviours that most won't expect

also what moon said

[hybrid star]

I stayed off the game since before they announced 1.0 and once upon a time I had an issue with the amount of cat wire getting off the train but it was a pretty extreme amount of wire

[prisma kraken]

the reason for buffers is to deal with inconsitent flow rates, and everything in the game you build should have a consistent flow rate

[vapid gorge]

move the bars instead 😄

[prisma kraken]

why they're such an early unlock and not coupled to trains is that sometimes you just want to temporarily dump byproduct in one as you build to kick the can down the road (specifically with the HOR on intro oil)

[worn heath]

flow rate hover around 60-110. So I should assume when lifting water up ~2 generators per extractor?

[vapid gorge]

nah follow the diagram if you're new, 3 extractors to 8 generators. Remember to do the math

8 gens take 360 water and 3 extractors produce 360

and you're using multiple pipes to inject the water so you enver go over 300 limit at any one point

[vale sandal]

what oil recipes should i go for

[vapid gorge]

? they're all useful, what are you tryign to do ?

[vale sandal]

turbo fuel

[vapid gorge]

well if you want more fuel per oil, Heavy Oil Residue and one of hte Diluted Fuel alts are useful

[vale sandal]

alright thanks

[lusty tinsel]

if i put a programmable splitter on output of a storage buffer and set one output to overflow will it only send out whats overflowing before it?

[vapid gorge]

yeah just like a smart splitter

there's very few use cases for prog splits cause a smart will do the job

[lusty tinsel]

oh ok

cool thyen i can merge and sink

[grand osprey]

i'm a little bit confused about pipes
I'm trying to feed 20 refineries with 600 heavy oil a minute, but the pipes refuse to stay full, thus throwing a wrench into everything
I have the inputs all in a straight line, I was wondering if there was a better way to fuss with things to keep a full pipe?

[hybrid star]

the mark 2 pipes are still fucking up then when at full capacity. Figured they would fix that by launch

[vapid gorge]

it's not a bug

[hybrid star]

It really feels like it is when you manifold it

[vapid gorge]

you generally need to feed long manifolds with a looped pipe like this, flood the system too

[vapid gorge]

nah, when you have a single pipe a machine can suck fluid from the middle of it right? the fluid in front can decide the pipe behind it is more empty and flows back. Creating a stutter.

pipes aren't belts

@cold flower see my above image with text

[hybrid star]

I've done that pipe layout, I also found it useful to use pumps where the problem is

[grand osprey]

i will try the loop
The thing is, like, I have another section of 20 that I have laid out just the same (without the loop) and its been running perfectly, hence my confusion

[cold flower]

Gothca, looks a bit wacky, but I guess that's what it takes to run optimally

[vapid gorge]

sometimes directionality can help but considering a stutter can happen anywhere any time fluid is pulled I wouldn't describe that as a consistent solution

[vapid gorge]

often times fresh water or oil products don't need a loop. Sometimes you can get a regular manifold working and it's just stable enough there's no hiccups.

looping and flooding though is just a concrete method that works

[vapid gorge]

not every system needs a loop - very short ones like 1 pipe feeding 3 machines from junctions? prob doesn't.

fresh water or oil feeding something? often doesn't

but anything past the first stage that needs a lot of machines feeding off it? just loop it from the start imo

[ashen girder]

Adding a shitload of headlift (or just pumps at some interval) also seems to work.

[cold flower]

I see, have been troubleshooting my rocket fuel line, and trying to figure out why certian things just wasn't getting supplied correctly

[vapid gorge]

loop and flood 😄

that's not 100% solution to everything though, that just manages back flow

for example if you're branching off multiple manifolds from 1 pipe? that requires different work

or if there's elevation changes within the manifold.

that ones a big no no>

[distant aurora]

yeah fluids are wacky. there are solutions like loop and flood for some stuff and for other stuff the more you try to micromanage them the more they will punish you for your hubris

[distant aurora]

yeah i learned this the hard way recently. running refinery pipes under them with manifolds in logistics floors that go up to them through floor holes is a recipe for random inexplicable issues

[ashen girder]

MOAR PUMPS!

[distant aurora]

nah no amount of pumps will save you

fluids are a fickle and temperamental beast

[ashen girder]

Practical experimentation disagrees with you.

[distant aurora]

im at least not gonna put a pump on each pipe of a 20 refinery manifold if thats what oyu mean

[ashen girder]

In fact, the only way we could get bottom fed refineries stable was with either pumps or 300+m of headlift.

[vapid gorge]

you can bottom feed, but you have to be very strict with layout and this is a good loop lay out for it

[ashen girder]

No, I wouldn't do it on every pipe.

[distant aurora]

horrifying

[vapid gorge]

but it works 😄

[ashen girder]

To be clear, a bunch of us spent a couple days recently trying to figure out how to make 4 bottom-fed refineries run stably. We tried a lot of different shit. 😂

[grand osprey]

hokay, i built the loop, and had to turn off each machine on that line, waited until the main pipe was full, turned on the machines that were near empty, let them fill, turned them off, repeat until everything is full
got full pipes and everything seems to be working just right, so........fingers crossed that's the last time I fuck with that xD

[ashen girder]

As far as we could tell, it was because junctions remove a small amount of headlift, that coupled with bottomfed machines being entirely too sensitive made it problematic.

[cold flower]

btw, is rocket fuel a gas? Does it need pumps to go higher, or is that unnecessary?

[grand osprey]

(my priority switches aren't working for some reason and i'm not sure why, probably a mis-wire somewhere...)

[ashen girder]

It is, yeah.

[distant aurora]

junctions shouldnt remove headlift. i think it has more to do with one building sucking fluid out of one of the feed pipes and the others backflowing to try to level out the fluid, leading to pressure loss

or something like that

[ashen girder]

They do, whether they should or shouldn't is a question for the devs.

[vapid gorge]

you can also jsut turn a few to 1% to let them flood 🙂 much less work

just for next time

[cunning lily]

So if I have one fluid buffer feeding 36 fuel gens for rocket fuel: should I loop the pipeline back on its start?

[distant aurora]

here's one cursed solution i fugured out for bottom feeding, at least for this set of refineries that underconsume that full pipe of oil: a fluid buffer with a closed valve to provide headlift

which seems to push the bottom feeding pipes to be always full in a way that a pump doesnt for some reason

[cunning lily]

Also are pipe floorholes still borked in 1.0? Wasn't sure if I had to stay away from them still

[distant aurora]

i dont think ive had issues on that front

[cunning lily]

I've used a couple with no issue so far I just remember they were problematic pre 1.0

[remote ice]

...Hmm. You know, I just had a thought

i wonder what happens if you place the hub outside of the instant death barrier...

[dreamy flame]

......

[distant aurora]

youll probably instantly die over and over

[vapid gorge]

why a buffer?

[vapid gorge]

I've heard the connections to them can still sometimes bug out on build

[cold flower]

Ok, just to make sure that I understand the pipeline manifold correctly. would this work, or should the water ideally be elevated somehow?

[gleaming shuttle]

ive had a floorhole bug out yeah

breaking the pipe segment and replacing fixed it as usual

but still probably better to avoid them where possible

[vapid gorge]

that should be fine yes 🙂

but also fresh water manifolds often don't need the lopp 🙂

[cold flower]

Gotcha, thanks for the help
Just wanna make sure that I understand the concept correctly before I start replacing my existing piping

[cunning lily]

No good reason tbh

[vapid gorge]

buffers tend to wreck flow unless you know what you're doing , but yes if you have 36 gens loop the manifold back to just before the start

[cunning lily]

I did it initially to siphon off some into cannisters; didn't remove it when I then added the fuel gens

I was really surprised at how economical rocket fuel is - I initially thought I'd done the math wrong on 1x diluted fuel refinery --> 36 rocket fueled generators using nitro recipe

[ashen girder]

It's insane.

[cunning lily]

Makes big powerplants from small amounts of crude oil quite viable; I wonder if the devs will buff the power output of nuclear to balance it for endgame setup decisions

[ashen girder]

I think a full Plut setup still beats it?

[gleaming shuttle]

in terms of effort:power ratio, not really

nuclear can produce a lot of power but it is orders of magnitude more complex than rocket fuel

idk how the numbers compare in terms of "using all crude oil on the map" vs "using all uranium on the map"

i'd bet that rocket fuel wins if you do that, but this obviously isnt practical since some of your oil needs to go towards plastic/rubber

[cursive heron]

most of your oil is going into diamonsd

[ashen girder]

You run out of sulfur pretty quick if you do that.

[gleaming shuttle]

well oil based diamonds are theoretically avoidable

though theyre very good

but using oil for plastic/rubber is not avoidable

[cursive heron]

plastic/rubber takes very little oil out of the available oil resource

[amber jacinth]

Speaking of rocket fuel....

7500/m from the blue crater oil

I hate myself

[cunning lily]

I was thinking moreso in terms of the power plants people generally make to finish the game with; nuclear is just too much effort for the power output, though unsure if buffing nuclear power output would change much

[gleaming shuttle]

i was assuming you use all available sulfur for rocket fuel and leave the rest as just fuel

[gleaming shuttle]

i think nuclear power being optional is intended

devs probably dont want people to be forced to play around with it

considering a lot of people get stressed out by waste management stuff and radiation mechanics

i do wish there was more of a "point" to it though, like some late game thing thats only accessible using the plutonium chain besides just more power

but i dont really have a concrete idea for that, manufacturing somersloops or something would obviously be overpowered

[ashen girder]

I would love to see an alt for, like, BWDs that uses it.

[amber jacinth]

radioactive motors

[cunning lily]

If there was more endgame content (optional content) that had very high power requirements and if they buffed nuclear power output by something like 400%, people may be more interested in doing it

[cursive heron]

infinite research

even though technically it would be hardcapped due to limited resources

[ashen girder]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_rocket

[cunning lily]

Like antimatter jetpack fuel for 'minmaxing' or something; something that requires silly amounts of power

[ashen girder]

Honestly, I just wish 95% of the T9 alts weren't for diamonds. 😭

[amber jacinth]

💯

[cunning lily]

Or even a new rifle ammo based on depleted uranium

[amber jacinth]

More alts around reanimated/fluctuators would be cool, maybe some around ficsonium as well

[ashen girder]

DU rifle rounds, hell yeah.

[cunning lily]

I might throw that idea on the QA actually

[ashen girder]

Would be a great alternative use of Plutonium waste.

Or uranium waste, I guess. 🤣

[cursive heron]

I wish we could copy paste water extractor overclocksettings

[amber jacinth]

Non-Fissile uranium bullets? Would be sick

[gleaming shuttle]

ficsonium rebar

so powerful it crashes your game when shot

[cursive heron]

and nuclear gen overclock setting for that matter

[amber jacinth]

Speaking of ficsonium, I wonder why it’s not sinkable… not that you’d ever want to, but, y’know…

[ashen girder]

Once you start down that road, you commit to that road. 😄

[fierce ruin]

u guys ever build perfect balancer factories for the fun of it

to like yk not waste idol power

[cunning lily]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66fa1888772a987f4a8dd3d0
I've not really dived into T8/T9 much so my knowledge on recipe feasibility is minimal. Feel free to jump in on the feature suggestion though

[ember fractal]

Yah I was thinking the same today. Rocket fuel is pretty OP. For the average player, if you use the nitro recipe, you might as well forego going nuclear. The rocket fuel is so simple to make and provides decent power.

2 normal sulfur nodes can get you 1800 rocket fuel

Which is like close to 100 GW?

Once you factor in the power required to produce the stuff.

[ember fractal]

Never. I don't have the time for that lol

My strategy is usually to over produce the materials being used in the next step of production, and store / sink the excess.

[fierce ruin]

its a little fun (if ur good at crunching numbers the math for one resource stuff is js basic algebra) but the numbers get funny after a while

[ember fractal]

Right, which is why I don't bother. It's just too much math.

[fierce ruin]

like stiched ref iron plates with iron wire to make modular frames

i need to split my input into 235/343 and 108/343

very time consuming but soso worth

(or i just need mental help)

[ember fractal]

Whatever floats your boat lol

I try to keep all my inputs and outputs as multiples of either 100 or 150.

Anything that's slightly over, I sink

[vapid gorge]

easier to just block tbh

[fierce ruin]

?

[vapid gorge]

you're asking for help. MUCH simpler to just block out nightmare images and not see it

[fierce ruin]

im asking for mental help

is this better

its spoiled now

im not doing this bc i want to make spaghetti im doing htis bc i need to split my belt into 2 ratios over 343

[amber jacinth]

What on earth

[fierce ruin]

bc honestly id rather have a perfect factory with hell flexworks as long as i can hide it in like a cube

[woeful geode]

I have a pipe full of oil, and when I goto connect a pipe to it the new pipe doesnt fill with oil, like its just stopped flowing completely. How can I fix this?

[cursive heron]

this is going to be hell and back to troubleshoot once its actually turned on

[prisma kraken]

600 sulfur with 900 crude gives 2000 RF using blended tf + default rf and refunds you 200 ccoal

i'm honestly thinking of building that just to make steel as a byproduct 😄

[cursive heron]

compacted steel for some reason is mind numbingly slow though

[prisma kraken]

it is to make it consume tons of power

i think they went a little overboard on the gimping the buf the recipe received, but it is still pretty bonkers and with unlimited shards, it isn't as bonkers

[prisma kraken]

what it allows for is stuff like this

[ashen girder]

I don't understand what that picture is saying.

[prisma kraken]

its a recipe chain, makes compacted steel out of iron only using the converter to do iron->sulfur and iron->coal

for 3600 iron and 400 sam, you get 2400 steel ingots

[ashen girder]

For 1600 iron and 1600 coal you get 2400 steel ingots. 😛

[prisma kraken]

if you have either coal or sulfur handy, it gets more efficient

1600 iron + 800 coal + 800 sulfur = 3200 steel

i'm not saying any is better. these recipes are meant for endgame where resources are getting scarce and you want to max things

[ashen girder]

Fair enough. 😂 I'd rather use sulfur for power. If you need steel that desperately, use aluminum/iron?

[prisma kraken]

i think probably more powerful is actually iron+limestone -> iron pipe

[ashen girder]

And aluminum beam -> steel screws.

Or aluminum beams for versatile frameworks.

[prisma kraken]

you don't need enough vers frames to really make it worth devoting the alum to

[ashen girder]

I mean. What are you building that "resources are getting scarce"?

Because pretty sure max points means a buttload of BWDs which use V. Frameworks.

[prisma kraken]

ever try to max out pasta?

[ashen girder]

No?

[prisma kraken]

making singularity cells gets to be a thing

i was just crunching the numbers on the cooling device alt... it really doesn't suck anymore

i knew it was buffed, but i didn't realize that it is now better than the default recipe

[ashen girder]

What makes it better?

[prisma kraken]

they reduced the casing cost and the cycle time

[ashen girder]

I didn't ask how it was buffed. 😂

It's still 2.4x slower than default.

In terms of cycle time.

[prisma kraken]

side by side

[ashen girder]

🤔

Very confused by your recipes. 😂

[prisma kraken]

i normalized the amt by asking how many of each i could make with 225 alum casings

[ashen girder]

You don't make them with casings.

[prisma kraken]

you make them with heatsinks which are made from casings

[ashen girder]

Which can be made from casings.

How do they compare using default heat sinks instead?

[prisma kraken]

i'll give it a spin and let you know, but the default heatsink recipe sucks

[ashen girder]

😂 Why's that?

[prisma kraken]

lotta copper to make heatsinks with the default

its kind of hard to draw a comparison btw the two heatsink recipes because making them from alclad sheets is so expensive

[ashen girder]

You're trading copper for oil. 🤷‍♂️

That.. doesn't mean it sucks?

It just means you have to pick whether you'd rather use copper or oil.

[prisma kraken]

its more than just copper, its the power to make the copper

[ashen girder]

Using no alts, default heat sink takes less power than heat exchanger.

[prisma kraken]

you're looking at pure copper ingot + steamed sheet to make it all efficient and that's a lot of power

[ashen girder]

Okay, now you're trading 1.5x power for a quarter of the copper.

And you're consuming oil that can instead be used for power.

[prisma kraken]

~300 rubber is nothing, you get that as coke byproduct when making aluminum

[ashen girder]

It's not nothing. Nothing is nothing in this game.

[prisma kraken]

true, i'm saying that if you care at all about resources, you're making coke for aluminum and have a bunch of resin kicked out as byproduct so you get the rubber for free

[ashen girder]

And I'm saying that you can absolutely care about resources and not be doing that. 😂

[prisma kraken]

not free, but it doesn't cost more resources besides power

[ashen girder]

Except now you have to make your aluminum near your oil or vice versa.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm going to refrain from arguing the point farther. resource amts are different in 1.0 and i don't have a good feel for the envelope yet

if only there were oil near aluminum 🙂

[ashen girder]

To be clear: I'm fundamentally arguing that WP evaluations are utterly pointless 99% of the time.

[prisma kraken]

i would agree, and i don't go by WP at all

[ashen girder]

That's exactly what you're suggesting here though.

[ashen girder]

I don't really understand this sentence otherwise, I guess?

[prisma kraken]

i'm not to the point yet where i'm really crunching the numbers yet, but with u8 and previous, i was looking at how to make 60/min of the phase 4 parts

what i can say is that the cooling device alt always ended up being a problem

[ashen girder]

So, the problem is when you say a recipe sucks and that's where you're starting from, you're starting from a very different place than 99% of people.

[prisma kraken]

if you tried using it, you'd blow out the map limits for either nitrogen or bauxite

[ashen girder]

And the cooling device alt literally only changed by using 1 less heat sink and got slightly faster.

The nitrogen cost didn't change.

Well, substantially faster.

32s -> 24s cycle time.

[prisma kraken]

it makes a substantial difference and allows the OC supercomputer alt to be viable

[ashen girder]

See, that's my point. OC Supercomputer's always been viable. 😂

Just maybe not if you're trying to build 60/min of all the endgame products.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i mean i was building pre-1.0 to ridiculous scale

[ashen girder]

Anyway, for what it's worth I'm building default heat sinks, cooling devices, and OC SupComs in my save. 😂

I'm also using turbo electric motors and electric motors.

[prisma kraken]

some recipes you just couldn't use becaus choosing them was like 'whoops there goes all the bauxite'

[ashen girder]

They all stack together delightfully well.

[prisma kraken]

i'm sure they do, but i've never really cared for the ECR motor chain

[ashen girder]

Why not?

Swapping two stators for one stator and half an HSC.

Oh, wait, two stators for a half stator and a quarter HSC.

[prisma kraken]

i'm aware. more of a logistics thing where you need more than just iron & copper make electric, coupled with the fact i build motors a little earlier in game progression

[ashen girder]

Do you build motors and then ship them to your turbo motor factory?

[prisma kraken]

pretty much

[ashen girder]

That's wild, considering TEM uses ECRs, Rotors and Motors.

[fierce ruin]

asidadhadhd so i used iron wire and stiched iron plates to make modular frames 20% more efficient (in a way that leaves the factory running without under/overflow) i need mental hlp

[ashen girder]

Meaning you can literally just build motors in the TM chain.

[prisma kraken]

my intro mod frame build:

iron pipe might be the best new recipe in the game

at this point it kind of seems like a toss up btw iron pipe and rocket fuel

[quartz violet]

as long as you have iron to burn

[prisma kraken]

'as long as water is wet'

the buff that iron alloy received offsets the cost of iron pipe early, and there's the pure and leached recipes later

anyway out of the new recipes in t1-8, i think it's a toss up btw iron pipe and rocket fuel

[ashen girder]

Funny how all of those also make solid steel better. 😋

If only there was coal near your iron, right?

[cursive heron]

You can turn a 1200 iron node into 300 pipe
or 1200 iron + 300 copper to 562.5 pipe

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm doing a grass fields playthrough, coal isn't as ubiquitous on the south side of the map

[ashen girder]

Now add in some coal.

[cursive heron]

only recipe you absolutely have to use coal for is steel beams (which only goes to versatile). You can automate everything else at phase 2 without coal

[prisma kraken]

hey, while at it, add in some concrete for molded pipe

[ashen girder]

Aluminum beams.

And straight steel pipe without alts is 450 iron and coal to 300 pipes.

[prisma kraken]

kinda need to make beams from steel to get to making aluminum

[ashen girder]

Find them scattered on the map? 😁

[prisma kraken]

and solid steel is 1:1

[ashen girder]

Correct. Regular steel is 1.5 to 1.

Comparing 1200 iron to 450 iron and 450 coal.

Solid steel makes it a quarter of the iron.

[prisma kraken]

in any event iron pipe has other uses as well (weapons, autominer, sam fluxuators)

[ashen girder]

For sure it's useful. It's just a massive trap IMO.

Quadrupling iron just to save coal.

[prisma kraken]

pure iron is the trap, iron pipe just enables it 😉

[ashen girder]

Hey, pure iron is great with solid steel

[prisma kraken]

to use the excess of coal next to your 4 pure iron nodes?

[cursive heron]

I thought the topic of today was that WIP is useless 99% of the time, are we at the part of 1%.
There's 2.875 more pure iron nodes for every 1 pure coal node

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's why tools love picking iron pipes.

[strange kettle]

did you use a website for this or what app or whatever it is?

[prisma kraken]

sp.runesun.com

[strange kettle]

thank youu

[cursive heron]

avoiding having to import a 2nd resource or find a location with both of them in it of itself is a good enough reason to use iron pipes for specific use cases

[prisma kraken]

it isn't a tool like sftools,its a tool for building a plan of what you want to build and keep track of the factories

[ashen girder]

For sure. Just be careful that you aren't just importing a whole extra node of iron instead. Recipe analysis should always be done locally.

[cursive heron]

mainly early game especially if people started at grassy fields

[ashen girder]

Grassy fields has ridiculously easy coal. I don't understand people that think it's bad for coal.

[prisma kraken]

late game, you do end up needing a lot of pipe for hmf's and meh, logistically it may make more sense to make a lot of iron pipe

[ashen girder]

You start almost on top of a pure node, you have another one nearby with sulfur, you have the 4 in the crater.

[prisma kraken]

you're really limited in gf by miner speed

[ashen girder]

Not really. Just use mergers. 😂

Or do you mean for coal?

Which, fair enough I guess?

[prisma kraken]

i'm doing my playthrough there now and needing the mk3 miners to pull the coal off of the two nodes down there isn't fantastic

[ashen girder]

?

I don't understand why you need mk3 miners.

[prisma kraken]

you have to build steel before you have the mk3 miner to take advantage of half the coal available... mk6 belts to fully get all of it, and like you've already built a bunch of stuff for lower speeds by that point

[ashen girder]

Yeah.. at that point you should be building elsewhere?

[prisma kraken]

agreed

[ashen girder]

I wouldn't say GF is worth anything for an end game factory, god no.

But it's a great spot to bootstrap steel.

[prisma kraken]

if i were to tweak gf a little bit, i think i'd break one of the pure coal nodes in the area into 2 normal nodes

[vast jungle]

I have been experimenting in SFTools with paths for Modular frame construction yesterday and was REALLY surprised about the results... (I switched off Oil input because I did not want to import plastic/rubber)

Basic recipes:

• 240 Iron to 10 MFs... no surprises here
  All Alts except for "Pure" recipes:
• 50 Iron, 12.5 Copper and 21 Coal for 10 MFs... Iron Alloy!, Iron Wire, Solid Steel Steel Cast Plate, Stiched Iron Plate and Steel Rod
  All Alts:
• 50 Iron, 21 Coal, 28 Water for 10 MFs... same as above, just Pure Iron instead of Iron Alloy.

First surprise: Iron Alloy is now really good...
Second Surprise: All paths used the basic MF recipe!

[prisma kraken]

is that the best you found, and was it without considering adhered plate+coated iron?

[vast jungle]

Yes... when I give it Oil as additional input, it just switched to Coated Iron Plate... but the rest stays the same... still using Stiched Iron Plate and Basic Modular frame

49 Iron, 10 Coal, 1.7 Oil and 34 Water => 10 Modular Frames

[prisma kraken]

i think this might be the best you'll get

[vast jungle]

only when I allow Oil AND switch of Pure Iron the path changes completely...

[prisma kraken]

that 32.5 ingots is crying for pure iron as well

[vast jungle]

Most likely SFTools consider to Plastic/Rubber too high and skips it for Pure Iron

[prisma kraken]

filling in the pure iron piece:

the chain really wants to be 4x that size

[vast jungle]

this one looks quite

[prisma kraken]

first time i've actually run those numbers with 1.0... i didn't realize it plays nice with pure iron now

[vast jungle]

trade 1.6 oil for 10 coal

the big surprise was how good Iron Alloy is now

especially the combination of Iron Alloy and Iron Wire is just funny

[prisma kraken]

i was just upping the module count on what i just posted, and this looks like a very nice build:

[vapid gorge]

1.6 oil for 10 coal doing what exactly?

coke steel?

[vast jungle]

5 plastic costs 1.6666 Raw Oil...
Adding the plastic to the input reduces the necessary Coal (for Steel) from 21 to 10

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah, I still miss steel coated plates

gonna get that recipe back in there

[prisma kraken]

steel coated plate no longer exists 😦

[vapid gorge]

mods

[prisma kraken]

heresy!

[vapid gorge]

I'm not 100% sure which other recipes are gone though.

[prisma kraken]

i can't think of any off the top of my head

[vast jungle]

most likely they broke some balance...

[prisma kraken]

all the cable recipes are still intact

steel coated plate was pretty good for mod frames

[vast jungle]

CSS has worked a lot to make the recipes more balanced... some were REALLY trash in 0.8

[vapid gorge]

I mean they added iron pipes. That's the most unbalanced recipe in the game

[prisma kraken]

like really, really good

[vapid gorge]

hands down. Nonsense tier recipe

with that Alt it allows a chain of production that cuts steel entirely from the world

[prisma kraken]

i agree that it is the best new recipe i've seen so far

[vast jungle]

Iron Pipe is REALLY expensive in terms of Iron... without Pure Iron SFTools don't recomend it

[vapid gorge]

so? iron is a trash resource.

like you could guzzle the iron from the map 24/7 and still drown in it

[prisma kraken]

idk if i'd say it is broken, but it is very good

well, until ficsite ingots which will do that for you 😄

[vapid gorge]

adding Iron as a resource padder is almost as much of a freebe as water.

[prisma kraken]

esp with basic iron ingot

limestone + iron = 2x iron?

[vast jungle]

With and without Pure Iron recipe

Iron Pipe feels like Iron Wire... its a "keep it simple" recipe, but it quickly blows the Iron input up ^^

[prisma kraken]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

replacing copper is more important and wire is generally a less used item. Plus it doesnt' cut the n eed for copper out

[prisma kraken]

there's 2 places it makes sense... 1) early when you're making small iron-only outposts and 2) late game when you're just trying to make buttloads of pipe for hmf's and motors or wire for autwire or anything else that uses cable

i think all of us have built an hmf factory and realized we're 60 pipe short 🙂

[vast jungle]

funny... "most balanced" Motor Recipe according to SFTools is Copper Rotor Motor...

[prisma kraken]

that was fixed with the EIP change

[vast jungle]

185 Iron, 16 Copper and 15 Coal to 10 Motors

[prisma kraken]

i honestly dislike sftools resource weighting, i think it's pretty off

[blissful loom]

does anyone know whether it would be better to do one 7 car train or split it into a 2 car and a 5 car

[vast jungle]

maybe 3+4? because up to 4 wagons you only need 1 locomotive...

for 5-8 wagons you need two

[cursive heron]

why did your 7 car train split into a total 10 cars

[prisma kraken]

@vast jungle

[cursive heron]

wait I read that wrong I thought it was two 5 cars

[blissful loom]

yeah

im considering just doing 7 with 2 locomotives

[prisma kraken]

that was a pretty significant change

[verbal lake]

its your game do whatever you want

[vast jungle]

okay, thats still missing from SFTools

4 to 3 changes A LOT

[cursive heron]

if its the only train coming in and has its own rail (doesn't intersect with other train paths) yeah just go 2 engines 7 cars

[vast jungle]

Concrete 5 to 6... OUCH

[prisma kraken]

well, i was talking about the 7->6

[vast jungle]

yeah, that one sounds nice

[blissful loom]

yea its a closed loop

[prisma kraken]

what that does is it makes it possible to make 45 hmf's on 1560 iron+coal

[ashen girder]

If it doesn't go up hill, you can probably just use one locomotive?

[blissful loom]

maybe maybe

[river night]

SFTools has those changes, greeny directly pulls from the game data

[ashen girder]

1 locomotive supports up to 5 loaded cars on a 2m ramp.

I'm pretty sure it's like 13 cars on flat rail.

[prisma kraken]

here's the game codex info:

so what i quoted from the wiki is correct

[vast jungle]

I just looked into the recipes... its still 4to1 with Steel Beam

[river night]

the recipe was EIB, not steel beam, which didnt change

[prisma kraken]

that's ingot -> beam, not beam->eib

[vast jungle]

Ahh ok... sorry... misread the changelog

[prisma kraken]

but yeah, they reduced the cost of eib's with both recipes

before it seemed like whatever you tried with recipe combos, you could never quite get an integral number of machines making hmf's

[river night]

more so for the default, although encased pipes still win on resource use

[pulsar idol]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=PGRMrv76FqHYYPZL3D96 how many overlocked nuclear power plants for this much rods per min?

[prisma kraken]

7.5/min?

[pulsar idol]

yeah?

i mean i can make it into 8

[white bloom]

where is this from? has there been a balancing patch with recipe changes after 1.0?

[prisma kraken]

they burn for 5 minutes at 100% or 2 minutes at 250%

[next pewter]

In tier9, the dark matter crystaisation is also (too?) OP.

It cuts out the need for coal/ diamonds to get rid of dark residue byproduct, only particle accellerator and sink needed (== power)

[cursive heron]

18 250% reactors and one at 187.5%

[prisma kraken]

(you get 15 reactors at 250% off of 7.5 rods/min)

[pulsar idol]

oh thats good still

[cursive heron]

wait wrong yeah 15 250% reactors

was looking at something else

[prisma kraken]

i think i'm correct, please double check me though 🙂

[pulsar idol]

cause i wanna also do plutonium waste recycle

and sink the plutonium rods till i can unlock the fiscioum fuel rods and then use the plutonium fuel rods recycle

[prisma kraken]

on a slightly different note, anyone else notice this?

spacing for smelters changed

[vast jungle]

spacing for Assemblers is VERY tight in 1.0 too

[cursive heron]

can't really get into uranium rod builds without also getting into plutonium. They quadrupled the waste output of uranium rods when they introduced plutonium (which was later halved so it's still twice the waste compared to pre plutonium)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, threw me off at first b/c you can't naturally fit a splitter btw the ports anymore

[pulsar idol]

they nerfed plutonium?>

[prisma kraken]

i've been noodling if it is any use in bp's

[prisma kraken]

he's speaking of older game revisions

specifically 3.5->4

[pulsar idol]

ohhh

well now we can recycle plutonuim

[cursive heron]

4 was crazy

20* waste/min for every reactor

[pulsar idol]

oh

[prisma kraken]

yeah, lol

[pulsar idol]

well im gonna build one

[prisma kraken]

back before you could just keep the hazmat suit on 😛

[pulsar idol]

and use drones to transport everything

[vast jungle]

I like to use belts to supply my Power Infrastructure... less things that can go wrong ^^

[cursive heron]

drones using fuel have made things extremely easy

[prisma kraken]

agreed, the more decoupled your power production is from everything else, the better

[pulsar idol]

mhm

[cursive heron]

I dedicated a bauxite node to canister production just to go to rocketfuel for drones

[vast jungle]

In 0.7 I built a nuclear powerplant where enough of the infrastructure was powered by a nearby Gysir so you could startup 2 reactors... and then activate the rest of the factory

[prisma kraken]

that's one way to do it, i guess

[pulsar idol]

i use rocketfuel for the fuel power gens

[cursive heron]

and 900 rocketfuel for 450 packaged rocket fuel which can power ~150 drones

[prisma kraken]

how big of a difference in travel times do the different drone fuels actually make?

[cursive heron]

rocketfuel is about a minute less compared to regular fuel

[pulsar idol]

yeah

[prisma kraken]

kind of seems pretty marginal tbh

[cursive heron]

over 4km

[vast jungle]

how do you get the fuel to the drone port? By drone?

[prisma kraken]

'regular fuel' = batteries?

[cursive heron]

regular fuel = regular fuel

[pulsar idol]

i use normal fuel for my drones

[prisma kraken]

heh, ok

[pulsar idol]

i might swap it soon but dosent bother me too much

[cursive heron]

rocketfuel is significantly less complex to mass produce compared to battery

[pulsar idol]

not using drones alot and mostly gonna be use for my nuclear power build

[cursive heron]

and you can cut out batteries entirely if you don't use OC supercomputers

[prisma kraken]

*superstate

[cursive heron]

difference between regular fuel and rocket fuel is also enough depending on distance to not have to add another drone port

[vast jungle]

rocketfuel also looks like a great way forward from a (Diluted) Fuel powerplant

[prisma kraken]

i figured as much for the regular fuel delta, but it kind of looks sucky for drones

[cursive heron]

the redeeming quality of using regular fuel over rocket is you don't have to use bauxite

[prisma kraken]

rocket fuel is just nitric acid + tf

[pulsar idol]

unless u using the alt recipe

that gives more

[cursive heron]

I'm talking in terms of fuel for drones, empty canisters are aluminum

[vast jungle]

but the packaged Rocket Fuel needs Aluminium

(damn, a bit too slow ^^)

[prisma kraken]

it isn't a great comparison unless you quantify it 'more per what'

[cursive heron]

what

[vast jungle]

I have a Fuel powerplant now... and plan to go Rocket Fuel Powerplant next

[cursive heron]

it's no bauxite vs yes bauxite to power drones

[vapid gorge]

eh, it makes having by product a little simpler but you're probably making dark matter from other parts since yo uwant to save on the SAM ore

[prisma kraken]

you have to pick an ingredient and say recipe xyz gives you more per resource A or resource B

as with the turbofuel recipes, they are more efficient on coal or sulfur and comparing them without acknowledging that your are trading resources is kind of pointless

[cursive heron]

it's the anti clogging recipe when you use dark matter trap since it's always going to net you positive residue

feed it back into the system to use less diamonds

idk where turbofuel came from I was just saying use regular fuel to power drones to not use bauxite but more drones vs rocket fuel which uses bauxite but less drones

I think you're arguing over something that is unrelated to the topic of drones

[vast jungle]

funny output from SF Tools... 🙂

[wind spade]

Rounding error, can safely ignore

[frosty owl]

SFTools broken, fix pls

[wind spade]

[river night]

there is also always that one combination of outputs that you manage to setup where it adds random recipes with 0x on the top that are not connected to anything and dont relate to any of your production 😄

[wind spade]

Hey it's trying 😄

[vast jungle]

I had set a few resources to zero without switching them off... but even switching them off didn't helped.

But hey, we all know and love Floating Point Implementations and their quirks 🙂

[gray peak]

when I ran a drone on packaged fuel instead of batteries (or smth even better)
The travel time was around 4x as long with fuel compared to batteries (if the UI can be trusted)

so downgrading is significant at least
not sure about upgrading (compared to battery)

[vapid gorge]

have you tried plutonium rods?

[verbal lake]

it's what drones crave

[gray peak]

no I haven't done any testing at all
I am just temporarily running a drone on fuel to supply some things without needing to transport batteries across the map yet
could test that at some stage tho

[vapid gorge]

oh neat, the wiki does have Prod velocities

[prisma kraken]

thx, btw do they also run on ficsonium?

[gray peak]

not according to their UI at least

[vapid gorge]

I guess my dream of nuclear drones is alive

[verbal lake]

not only alive but thriving

[vapid gorge]

1x plutonium rod is wroth 250 batteries. Rocking

[vast jungle]

that keeps supply runs down... and makes sure nobody steals from you drone ports (protected by radioactivity ^^)

[thorn bane]

discarding numbers < epsilon when
c++ std seems to use 1.19209290E-07F for floats (std::numeric_limits<float>::epsilon())

[wind spade]

I already have that

[thorn bane]

wait and its still showing 0? dafuq

[river night]

epsilon is the absolute limit of accuracy, however if you don't check that between every calculation step (which you probably shouldn't), then multiple epsilon can compound and you get a bigger error

[thorn bane]

ah true
but cant you just use a big epsilon for the displaying part? so if it would show 0 anyway, why show it? so 0.0001

[wind spade]

where do you draw the line of "this is an error" and "this is very small but needed production"? 🙂

[thorn bane]

like i said if its displayable

[fallow vector]

aww yis, 1.0 codegen for Docs.json.ts complete

[wind spade]

wdym by that?

[vast jungle]

if the display text is "0", then it can be dropped...

[wind spade]

that's rounding to 3 decimals

[thorn bane]

well you cant even underclock that far so that knowledge is irrelevant anyway right?
like nobody is gonna build 0.001 constructors

[wind spade]

I'd rather display a few rounding errors than not display part of someone's production line (even if it's practically impossible to build that, but to let the user know that it needs a bit more)

[thorn bane]

but theres a difference between rounding error between 1.1 and 1.2 (exaggerated ofc) and 0 and 0.1

[wind spade]

not from mathematical point of view

[thorn bane]

yes im not saying to truncate in the solving part i mean purely for the visualizer

[wind spade]

the visualiser is what user sees, that should be the most correct part

[vast jungle]

and just hiding the "zero" node could hide a problem from the user...

[wind spade]

or hide a problem they need to see

[vast jungle]

its still funyy to see a node like this 😄

I also have been thinking about if a button for "add/remove SAM material transformation recipes" would be useful... but its quite a niche application, normally you can just deactivate the SAM input.

[wind spade]

the problem with that is "how to define what is and isn't conversion recipe, given any dataset (not just the 1.0 one)"

[thorn bane]

i mean they are useful in some situations
i think theres a difference between classifying them as alts so they are disabled by default and straight up disabling them
and for that a "manual" solution like a check of raw (raw) should be fine imo

[wind spade]

still I have the problem of classification 🙂

[edgy leaf]

yea i thik u made it by definition impossible to solve

like, even if there is a flag in the data that specifically tags it as convertor, a mod could use it for something else or they could change it in the future

[wind spade]

there isn't

the only thing that can come close is recipe category, but again, that relies on every recipe having such a category set

[edgy leaf]

yep. i think phrasing it as a "problem" is a bit wrong, it makes people view it as something to be solved

like even if they made the devs add categories and pinky promise that they'll never change them and get all the mod devs to agree, they could still change their mind in the future and then it wouldnt work perfectly anymore

hm, i guess one thing that would never break is a button that removes all recipes labeled [raw resource] ([raw resource]) and labeling that button "button that removes all recipes labeled [raw resource] ([raw resource])

it always does what it says : )

[unborn ermine]

Just code the game from the ground up

The funiest part from a third party perspective is thinking of ideas that might be a nighmare to even think of implementing

Like, machine removal is nice, but sorting the whole thing by progression?

(probably hell to make)

[wind spade]

especially since there's no fixed order of progression

[thorn bane]

thats what i mean with a manual solution
something like

^(Bauxite|Caterium|Coal|Copper|Quartz|Iron|Sulfur|Limestone|Uranium|Nitrogen)(.+)(\(Bauxite|Caterium|Coal|Copper|Quartz|Iron|Sulfur|Limestone|Uranium|Nitrogen\))

can group those up in a variable if you want

[wind spade]

some ideas aren't even that hard to implement, the problem is mostly just how it can be done so that I don't have to change it with every update (I could just hardcode everything but then updating to new version changes from a few hours to a few days)

[unborn ermine]

You would have to have some disgusting method of save uploading and parsing

[vast jungle]

that too... like I said, 99% of the problem goes away by deactivating the SAM input resource, so I don't consider it a problem anymore

[wind spade]

or converter machine 🙂

[vast jungle]

implementing such a list once is trivial... doing it in a way that don't require constant maintenance is a lot harder

[wind spade]

yeah 😦
also given the fact that I'm working on new Tools (very slowly, but I am) from scratch, I don't want to deal with old Tools more than needs to be done

[thorn bane]

so if youre working on a new tool why not do a hardcoded solution for the old one?

[grim crane]

guys, so, if i wanna use rocket fuel, what way should i go, blender or normal?

and is ionized a good next step for a mega fuel plant?

[vast jungle]

Rocket Fuel feels like a great way to do a Powerplant for me, both with the Blender and the Refinery Recipe... Ionized fuel... I personally don't think its feasible, too expensive

[river night]

my feeling is that ionized for power generation is not worth the upgrade from a complexity vs. reward standpoint

[thorn bane]

wait arent both in the blender? but use the default
and nah ionized costs too much sam

[vast jungle]

but hey, maybe someone has to go through the "ionized fuel mega project" so we can learn from the experience

[grim crane]

but what about oil to power output?

[river night]

there is plenty oil

[grim crane]

i mean, i disagree

i nearly used every oil source in my old save, as efficently as possible lol

[river night]

of course it provides more power from the same oil, but it costs a lot of other stuff in the process, including SAM, which is the biggest bottleneck in the game

also providing power to power nothing is kinda pointless 😄

[thorn bane]

oh also ionized takes way too much power to make with all the particle accelerators, encoders etc

[grim crane]

k k

rocket it is

gold coast has sulfur near bye right?

so normal rocket recipie?
instead alternative?

[vast jungle]

not sure... but the craters west to the Gold Coast have both Oil, Coal AND Sulfur nearby... so its worth looking there I think

[grim crane]

i need that coal for

future expansion plans..

[thorn bane]

1000 ionized for 1000/3 * 250 = 85gw
power used 31729.483 MW (up to 52212.899 MW) xddddd

but ionized is still fucking awesome for the jetpack
its like the best of both turbofuel and liquid biofuel

[cursive heron]

if you want to save sulfur at the cost of more oil and remove coal, turbo blend + default rocket + default turbo (for the compacted byproduct)
the nitro recipe is alot less buildings and easier to setup but uses more sulfur and needs coal

[vast jungle]

not sure I will ever use the Jetpack when I finally get the Hoverpack ^^

[grim crane]

yes

you will

[thorn bane]

its still nice for exploration/cannons/getting to another part of the map

[grim crane]

the rocketfuel jetpack is hilarious

[cursive heron]

rocketfuel jetpack is basically like having a hoverpack for exploration

[vast jungle]

my main use of Jetpack in the past was to get a good high viewpoint during factory creation

[cursive heron]

but without needing to drag poles

[grim crane]

omg.. 💀

you do that?

[vast jungle]

I did that in U7 some times... was fun

[grim crane]

[cursive heron]

the lift on that thing is amazingly good

[vast jungle]

migth be even more fun with Power Towers

[thorn bane]

im terrified of the fps loss of having extra power powles in narnia even though thats super irrational xD

[grim crane]

rocket jetpack plus a high elavated player yeeter is deadly

i love it

[cursive heron]

I have a power tower line spanning across the map though thats because I used geothermal from phase2 to 4

[grim crane]

i always forget geothermal exists

once it came out i used to hunt it down like crazy

[vast jungle]

Geothermals are a nice addition before you transition to Fuel-Power

[grim crane]

im on my way to fuel powe rn, cus i am using two nodes for coal power generation

32 generators…

[cursive heron]

I skipped the non blender recipes entirely, didn't make any fuel gens during phase 3

[grim crane]

and i was planing on building my plant so that i can easily go to rocket fuel

[grim crane]

the blender is so fucking hilarious for oil plants

[cursive heron]

my old coal plant, some augmenters, and geothermals provided 20gw

[grim crane]

???

damm

that would be enough for

ehhh phase 4 maybe

[thorn bane]

but by the time you hunt them down couldnt you just build mroe fuel tower

[cursive heron]

mis remembered, it was only 15

[grim crane]

im still on phase 2 stuff lol…
i just rushed mk4 belts

[cursive heron]

yeah it was more than enough to power through phase 3, I just went straight for nitro rocket recipe to pad additional power

for phase4

[tropic mason]

how can consum be higher than max consum? =x

[grim crane]

currently automating motors
and finishing prep for my 10 heavy frames a min

and i have a feeling that that is not enough 💀

i rly wanna produce 5x that much at best

[thorn bane]

oh you went for the alt? interesting im still not sure which is better
whatd you think about it?

[tropic mason]

hmm i guess do machines turn off and on constantly and max cons is their average consum if all powered?

[cursive heron]

I built it in blue crater, sulfur coal and nitrogen aren't an issue

[grim crane]

guys, where do i find about 600 coal in a close proximity to the mushroom oil fields?

i already used up 3 of the nodes north of it

[vast jungle]

maybe ask SCIM?

(Satisfactory Calculator Interactive Map)

[grim crane]

That is just making me depressed

[thorn bane]

build tons of radar towers

[grim crane]

dont think i unlocked them yet

[vast jungle]

what do you think will most people (have to) do if you ask them about resurce node placement? They fire up SCIM

[thorn bane]

they are nice
its like scim but ingame

[cursive heron]

when you look at both recipes the nitro one uses around 3x more sulfur which sounds like a lot but honestly not much point in saving sulfur when power is the only thing it goes to (unless you use superstate computers or leeched recipes).

[thorn bane]

leeched are awesome though
its like pure but actaully building efficient

[vast jungle]

you need a good source of Computers and Crystal Oscillators before you can SPAM radar towers

[thorn bane]

ye they are expensive

[grim crane]

I am cooked… red is in use
blue is factory location…

[thorn bane]

ooh right didnt they add a bunch in 1.0?

[grim crane]

the 3 impure is another belt full
then the normal could cover a bit more

[vast jungle]

still quite a bit of coal left to the North and the West

[grim crane]

they also removed 3 in the grass fields

[vast jungle]

or just get the coal in by train

[grim crane]

i dont rly wanna touch that node yet

[grim crane]

dont have trains yet
its all belt based rn

[vast jungle]

embrace the train, just give in! 😉

[grim crane]

thats gonna be one of the nodes for bauxit refinment

[grim crane]

I dont even produce motors yet

….

i am currently working on motor production
and some overhead to be shipped to my main factory for heavy frames setup

[grim crane]

down where the pure node is there where 2-3 nodes, and they removed one coal node on top of a hill near the bigger see in the grass fields

like why?

[cursive heron]

maybe if someone psychotic enough makes like a global packaged sulfuric acid facility

[grim crane]

only reason i picked the grass fields for 1.0 was because i was relying on those

[grim crane]

[verbal lake]

it got into an argument with the nearby iron node and they decided it would be best if the coal node just relocated to avoid future problems

[thorn bane]

hahahaha

[grim crane]

….

[thorn bane]

waaaait the impures are its children?

[grim crane]

could they atleast combine all the shitty impure iron nodes 💀

[grim crane]

OMG… THATS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY

[thorn bane]

thats why god mark created mergers

[river night]

i'm far more annoyed by a singular impure somewhere that even with a OC'ed mk3 you get barely anything out of, rather then a sea of them you can just merge together 😄

[cursive heron]

honestly wouldn't be too bad and you can drone everything. 3300 copper ingots is 750 acid, packaged sulfur acid stacks to 100 so drones can transfer 54000 sulfur per roundtrip

[grim crane]

Mk5 miner mod

[thorn bane]

i smelt in my main factory so i just have a pipe but ye that works i guess
i mena if youre using trains then thats ez aswell

[grim crane]

Drones…i once build a closed loop drone Network getting 90% of nitrogen to my bauxit and nuclear outpost, and the rest to my main base for the new Frame things

Depressed me did some weird shit

[thorn bane]

they are better now that they take any fuel

[grim crane]

If batteries would be cheaper lol

[thorn bane]

honestly using plutonium fuel sounds so fuckign awesome
i really should do that
fuck ficsonium

[grim crane]

No need to take up half my Production just to keep my drones running

[wind spade]

did they "fix" the "always takes at least one fuel rod" issue?

[cursive heron]

900 rocket is enough to power 150 drones which is honestly a blip in the worlds resources

[wind spade]

where drones always refuelled with at least one rod, wasting tons of power?

[grim crane]

You just replace 2m waste with plutoniom waste

[vast jungle]

try to get a factory with a single Motor Manufacturer setup, that should be enough for a start

[grim crane]

Naj

[river night]

burning fuel rods in vehicles does not produce waste .. or well if it does, it gets spread all over the environment out of the exhaust 😛

[grim crane]

50 a min minimum for the start

Gonna be enough for personal storage

[grim crane]

Ohh lol

[cursive heron]

also if you plan to build nuclear, add more dimensional depos for cables

like damn it needs alot of cables

[vast jungle]

50 motors per minute?

[grim crane]

Yes

[grim crane]

i will just switch to no cost building at one point again ngl… NOt gonna carry around 200000 concrete

[vast jungle]

"no cost building" ?

[grim crane]

no cost cheat

[vast jungle]

ah ok

[grim crane]

👍

[thorn bane]

wait youre doing 50 a min for PERSONAL STORAGE?
what are you building 300 refineries an hour???

[thorn bane]

personal storage
it can provide more concrete than you can spend

[grim crane]

i am prepping for the future 💀

[vast jungle]

in my last playthrough I had a small "Concrete factory" BP I put down everywhere I had a big building project ^^

"Oh, there is some limestone"... place BP and done

[wintry marlin]

i have one for smelters, 16x smelters... pretty usefull

[grim crane]

like i barely got mk3 belts and started to work on all the stuff iron related stuff i need for 10 heavy frames

i am now building a shared steal plant for motors and frames
just missing around 600 coal rn

then i will build the production for the motors
gonna need around 1k more iron

[vast jungle]

I remade all my basic production into BPs in the last days... so in theory I just could put them down where I need them

but the DimDepot upgrades make that less useful

[vast jungle]

coal is really a problem until you transition to Fuel power... I handcrafted my way to Geothermal to make this phase less painful 😉

[grim crane]

32 coal plants can power the heavy frames at least…
(im edging the limit rn)

my production and consumption is even rn…

i will just rush a fuel plant… like i did with mk4 belts

[vast jungle]

I had 24 Coal PP I think... and adding half a dozen Gysiers helped a lot

[jolly sparrow]

I HATE ALUMINAUM

[grim crane]

BLENDER!!!

nah but fr post update3 alu is bullshit

2.7 alu was peak

[jolly sparrow]

dont have a alt for it

[thorn bane]

ok mr 100 refineries

[grim crane]

even tho blender is not the most efficent

[grim crane]

dude, you went bauxit + silica == alu ingot

that easy

no alu slop or smt smt

[thorn bane]

oh im thinking of 3.x nvm

[jolly sparrow]

i got 300 ish pre phase 3 for turbo fuel

[grim crane]

cute

[quiet breach]

I know yall are probably way more sophisticated than I am but just finished building one factory making 5 rotor, 10 stator, 5 motor, 5 rip, 5 versatile framework, and 5 modular frames.

[jolly sparrow]

i can out of sulfer

[grim crane]

not bad

[quiet breach]

Was a pain

[grim crane]

xd

Did they add more quartz???
i used up like 80% of it in the past

[quiet breach]

I have a total of 200 something hours and 50 hours recent. So no idea

[thorn bane]

the alt for quartz is really REALLY good btw

[grim crane]

ik

even then tho….
ouchy ouchy

[thorn bane]

yep
i fucking love it though

[grim crane]

also fuck water… al my homies hate water

[quiet breach]

Do you guys use central storage?

[wind spade]

with dimensional depots it's kinda pointless, but you can build one if you want

[vast jungle]

Dim. Storage is kinda "centralized" too 😉

[grim crane]

i disagree!

[vast jungle]

but having a "mass depot" place to go still sounds good

[quiet breach]

Yeah true I’ve never built one and wanted to try

Not going too well lol

[wind spade]

because? 🤔

[grim crane]

nothing looks cooler then a nice central storge hallway that can store asmuch as you want
the dimensional depo just seems to limited resource wise

[thorn bane]

you just demnsional depot every item
then you dont need a storage

[grim crane]

and upload time and etc

[quiet breach]

I feel like you can easily run out

[wind spade]

240/min is way more than you'll need for anything

[grim crane]

i can definitly out build the upload rate of the depo

[wind spade]

you can build multiple depots

[thorn bane]

idk theres tons of spheres around
and upload can be solved by upgrades/more depots
like i have 5 depots uploading concrete
i just see a limestone node and pop down some constructors -> depot

[grim crane]

if its 12 different resources i spam in a blueprint for my trains

maybe?

[wind spade]

you can have 200 depots built in your world

there's only 33 resources needed to be stored

[quiet breach]

Ok so build factories all over specific parts, then connect with tractor/trains/drones?

[wind spade]

that's 1440/min of each resource needing to be stored

[thorn bane]

ye just 1 for lowthroughput like rods/plates is enough
and then you build multiple for stuff like concrete/belt stuff (plates/beams/alclad)

[grim crane]

the use of spheres vs use is still not that good personally
definitly until you havent unlocked upgrades

[wind spade]

you'd have to try REALLY HARD to outbuild that even for a while, yet alone for longer periods of time

[deft lichen]

Possible with huge dense blueprints

[quiet breach]

I can see the depot taking over central storage areas for sure

I’ve never tried building trains

[vast jungle]

"Dim depot breaker"... a MK3 BP full with 1m Foundations 😉

[grim crane]

ok did not look into he upgrades that far

[grim crane]

mk5 blueprint go brr

[thorn bane]

there are 298 mercer spheres on the map
youre not beating 100 dimension depots

[grim crane]

still think central storage is a thing i will build
cus its cool

[wind spade]

yeah, but realistically, how much of those will you build? 🤔 and I mean "realistically", not just "build random shit so that I can prove greeny wrong"

[grim crane]

around 350

data pulled from my old mega save

[wind spade]

350 of what?

[grim crane]

mk5 train blueprints

so huge designs eaint up huge amounts of resources

[thorn bane]

how much are they each

[grim crane]

they varied between 600-900 concreate alone

[quiet breach]

So if you guys build say an electronics factory, ai limiter, circuit boards, high speed connectors, computers, etc… if you build for surplus of a part you just toss a depot for that item and call it a day for storage?

[grim crane]

surplus?

nah i just use overflow smart splitters

[vast jungle]

MK5 BP designer... large enough for small train stations

[quiet breach]

Yeah like if you need to use say high speed connectors to make x, make an extra 5 for storage where the rest goes to the next part

Or do you build a factory specific per each item only?

[grim crane]

even iif you produce even on 100% use, after a while you will have overflow

[quiet breach]

Ohhhhh

I see what you’re saying

[grim crane]

just put a contained onto the belt, and a overflow splitter before it
so the contained fills, then it overflows into the splitter to storage;
Then a overflow to a sink

thats how i have always done it
still never reached my max possible power consumption lol

[wind spade]

only make for storage

if some other factory needs that item, it'll make it itself

[quiet breach]

I think I try to build too much into one factory

[grim crane]

neVER!

[wintry marlin]

wdym by max? isnt it only capped by how many machines u can place?

[grim crane]

ye

but i never actually came near my max power consumption of my placed machines

[wintry marlin]

ah, i see

[grim crane]

i produced like 120mw of power and had a max consmption of 160 or smt

then a power storage that could support all my production for about 6hours

[wintry marlin]

@edgy leaf would be disgusted by you, i fully support it

[grim crane]

with a average consumption of 95 i could keep it running for ever on storage alone 💀

[edgy leaf]

hello im not sure whats giong on but im disgusted

[grim crane]

i once emptied all my belts storage and etc, then deactivated the connection to my. power plants

shit ran for ever

[wintry marlin]

yeah, i have a bp for storage, whenever my storage fills up, i slap another one on top of my battery stack

[wintry marlin]

power stuff

[grim crane]

power storage chaining is a blessing

[thorn bane]

waaait you can make blueprints of power storages?
why havent ive been using that

[floral fjord]

Can I get a 2nd opinion on my math please?

I have a 1-4 train network.
I need to transport 2100 coal/m across a decent distance, 2 load stations. It has a tested roundtrip time of 8 to 8,5 minutes.

Wagons are 32 stacks each. coal is 100/stack. 4 wagons is 32x100x4 = 12.800 items per full train
The truck stations get filled in 12800/2100 = 6,09 minutes.

So the train needs to drive back and forth within 6 minutes in order to gaurantee full throughput.

With a roundtrip time of 8 minutes, and a fill time of 6 minutes, I would realistically need 2 trains on this lane in order to meet the throughput demand of 2100/m and all should be fine?

[vast jungle]

you can fit 25 Power Storage units into one layer even with the MK1 BP designer...

[wintry marlin]

yeah, i have one with 16 storages is a blackbox, with 1 power connector accesible

[vast jungle]

make them stackable and power storage will just be limited by you running to the depot for more stuff 😉

[grim crane]

Send help

[wintry marlin]

and i always just chain them

[wintry marlin]

put a roof on a BP and they are

[grim crane]

omg, bp are a blessing 😭

i just mass placed them with smart… and manually wired them

[wintry marlin]

ouch

[grim crane]

as seen here

[wintry marlin]

@CSS when zoop for building?

[grim crane]

man… this save is like update 4-8 times
Shit was wild
had like two depression phases where i sank 250h per phase into it

[thorn bane]

thats what blueprints are for?

[vast jungle]

make them in packs of 25 (or more with MK2/3) pre-wired... just make sure to add a few well-placed powerpoles so you can connect them from all sides to each other

[grim crane]

totatilng 600 hours in that save

[wintry marlin]

when zoop for blueprints?

[grim crane]

smart

mods pls work again
building buildings without smart is getting out of hand

[grim crane]

lets say i use a mk5 blueprint, how many could i fit in there?

[wintry marlin]

should be 6x6

[grim crane]

so one blueprint == a nuclear plant?

[wintry marlin]

huh?

[grim crane]

in power storage

[wintry marlin]

ah, no fucking clue tbh

never been to nuclear

[grim crane]

oh sane you

[wintry marlin]

no time to play the game, only Work, and 1 other game

[grim crane]

i still will forever curse the community for wanting pipes

[grim crane]

i just sink my time for school into this game 💀

idk how i havent failed any of the last 11 years

[wintry marlin]

ye idk, i did the same in school...

different game tho....

finished with abi 1,9

[grim crane]

i should do my academic comeback rn…
finally starting to study and etc

but noo.. menthal health fucks me over

[wintry marlin]

eh, no need. noone cares about ur grades after u get the next one

[grim crane]

aiming for that or better

did my Mittelschulreife with 1.33
i played satisfactory until 4am the day before my 6 oral exams

[vast jungle]

There is only mk1 to MK3 dir official bps

[grim crane]

then 4 hours of sleep
my teacher (neighbor) picked me up
exams started at 10
fuck i was fueld on coffein and adhd meds

[grim crane]

i am a proud modded. player

my beloved flying cheat

[wintry marlin]

isnt that a vanilla option?

[grim crane]

since update 8

[thorn bane]

fuck i feel you
hopes all goes well for you
satisfactory helps to have some fun but make sure you get professional help as well ❤️

[vast jungle]

How do you expect someone to answer what fits into a nodded BP designer? 😉

[grim crane]

Satisfactory releases the updates the moment it goes down 💀

[grim crane]

i mean, its not a unknown mod

[wintry marlin]

ah tbh, i didnt even realize they were talking about mk5, i just answered for mk3

[grim crane]

should have stated it

i think the mk5 is 48x48

https://ficsit.app/mod/KBlueprintDesignPlus

[thorn bane]

wait so its the same as vanillas mk3?

[grim crane]

wait

can be?

[grim crane]

the mk3 ingame feels smaller

oh then the mk5 is bigger

interestingly a lot of building stuff and etc was mod stuff before it was in game

A lot of like the fram platforms and etc, windows

doors

Bigger blueprints

multi dimensional storage

[tight crag]

Mk.3 blueprint designer is unlocked too late imo. For most players, it unlocks when you are just waiting for the final materials. Therefore I bet most won't even use it. And it's also really annoying that they made the encoder JUST large enough to not fit inside

[grim crane]

i use my old save/a extra creative save for blueprint designing

So i can have all materials
and wen i need references

[thorn bane]

wait are we really complaining about mk3 designer after we just asked for bigger than mk1? xd

[grim crane]

also why arent blueprints in cloud save 💀

[thorn bane]

its really good for manufactureres imo

[tight crag]

I am not saying no one is using it. You are obviously using it, but in a bandaid way

[grim crane]

the one thing i never use them for

[grim crane]

yeah, kinda agree

never used blueprints for production stuff 💀

[thorn bane]

it sucks for mk1 since you can only 1 but its nice with bigger since you can fit 2
cant remember if its mk2 or 3

[grim crane]

just always for bridges and etc

I should make a water ectraction blueprint

guys, did you know water extractors need no water?

[tight crag]

no. It's good that they introduced mk.3.
I am complaining about the timing inside the natural progression of a save file and the implications.

[thorn bane]

idk its like complaining that you already build your factory by the point you unlock mk6s
its still aspirational and helps the feelign of progression

[tight crag]

because that's literally the first thing I did with it.
Unlock, trying to place an encoder and cursing whoever was in charge of game design

[verbal lake]

its a totally legitimate complaint lol

satisfactory isnt the only game that does it but like games where you get a cool skill 90% of the way through the game and barely use it

[grim crane]

thats why you play for 5 years and 1k hours

[thorn bane]

and theres a reason for
reward the players for progression
if you get everything 50% through then the last 50% is just boring af cause you dont unlock cool stuff anymore

[verbal lake]

haha i hear ya, I've been play since 3/19/19

[grim crane]

225 quartz osscilators a min to much?

[grim crane]

Same?
i think that was when the weekend started

[tight crag]

I don't know why you make a specific statement into a generalisation.
I didn't complain about mk6 belts.
I did and could unlock them before the last 2 milestones.
I could and did use them for the last few chains.
Mk.3 blueprinter was literally the last milestone I researched while just waiting for the last few elevator pieces to be delivered

[grim crane]

everything over mk4 is overrated!!!

[thorn bane]

wait arent they unlcoked before mk6?

[grim crane]

also did they change mk3 belts?

I remember them carrying 320 items a min

not 270

[wind spade]

never

[vast jungle]

Always 270/min

[thorn bane]

oh wait they need NQPs nvm was misremembering

[grim crane]

ok then i was just bad at math

[wind spade]

only belt speed change was mk4 from 450 to 480

[tight crag]

mk6 belts only need resources from the first tier 9 milestone, while mk3 blueprint needs resources from the 1st and 2nd

[grim crane]

oh i remember that…

when mk4 belts felt unlimited!

[vast jungle]

Both in speed and cost 😁

[grim crane]

fr fr

[tight crag]

I love mk6 belts. finally number divisible by 60 and 100 🙂

[grim crane]

dude my first mk2 belts felt insanely fast

[grim crane]

what can they carry?

[tight crag]

1200/min

[grim crane]

damm

thats WHAT?!?

I could put all my needed coal for my production on one belt!!??

Omg, magical

[thorn bane]

i sewar they would have made it 1370 or something if they didnt have problems with throughput xD

[grim crane]

i swear thats the idea behing all belts

where did it go wrong

60
120
270
450/480
750?

[vast jungle]

MK3 Miner pure node 250% OC = 1200

[tight crag]

780

[deft lichen]

they used to be 60 120 270 450 660 (900), that changed in update 2

[grim crane]

update2? god damm

[tight crag]

belts are all divisible by 30, if that is any consolation

[thorn bane]

ok grandpa

[grim crane]

ok grandpa 💀

i feel old wheni look back at when i first started playing

i was freshly 12

[tight crag]

closed alpha gang here 🙂

[grim crane]

closed?

dawg…

i did not get a key for the closed

[thorn bane]

i remember someone leaking uranium waste processing and everyone freaked out
good times

[grim crane]

i wanted to try playing this game with 10/11 💀

[vast jungle]

I started with U3, it was already 60/120/270/480/780 at that time...

[thorn bane]

ye same

[grim crane]

i remember coffe stain adding a patch to crash you game when you unlocked u2 stuff in the game files
and then us finding a work around

i still want my powerd factory floors!!!

best feature ever

[vast jungle]

just make a BP with powerlines below...

just add a powerpole directly above and connect them through the floor

also useful during construction because the hoverpack works everywhere ^^

[grim crane]

not the same

still a need to power line mass factories

[thorn bane]

wait thats so smart for the hover pack
it truly is "now youre thinking with blueprints"

[vast jungle]

And you can combine this into a BP that doubles as a crawling space for belts... 2 layers of 1m foundations with the power grid... then you just have to connect them

[verbal lake]

i like to smack them on the side of foundations so they just hide, like an electric floor to hoverpack around in while I work on the building

[grim crane]

or

we get the eletric floor transformer

[verbal lake]

i was looking for that in 1.0, thought maybe it would get added

[grim crane]

same

[vast jungle]

ADA: "Remember to switch off the floor before touching it!"

[grim crane]

💀

that would be hilarious tho

also ok

ok

powerslug greenhouses

less production of shares BUT less expensive

by a lot

[vast jungle]

its called lizard doggo house

[grim crane]

just water space and power

[vast jungle]

one time cost of 1 paleberry per dog

[grim crane]

what produces more nuclear waste?

doggos
or 24 nuclear plants

[unborn ermine]

I still want something to automate consumables

[vast jungle]

you can flush nuclear waste down the toilet

[wintry marlin]

greenhouse when?

[grim crane]

WHAT?

can i automate that

[vast jungle]

you can flush ANY item one by one down the Toilet in the hub

including nuclear waste

[thorn bane]

ye in the toilet flush update but thats not out yet sadly

[wintry marlin]

u cna probably pay a guy on fiverr to do that 24/7 for you...

[vast jungle]

do Doggos produce more than 1 nuclear waste at a time?

[unborn ermine]

They dont seem to anymore? I have 6 at my base and I have yet to see any

[grim crane]

do trucks accept nuclear waste?

[vast jungle]

trucks only accept unspent fuel I think

except for the Ficsonium Fuel rod?

[grim crane]

mhhh

Ficsonium seems very expensive

i hate it!

how am i supposed to produce 100 a min of it

[thorn bane]

ye its insane

can someone make a qa post about ficsonium being too expensive so i can upvote it?

[grim crane]

like i already cried doing 225 quarty oscilators….
ficsonium gonna kill me

[thorn bane]

it really feels like sinking plutonium rods is still better

[grim crane]

just use it and build storage

[wind spade]

afaik you can make more power if you go up to ficsonium, but ficsonium itself is power negative

[grim crane]

i had a plutonium storage Bp

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message its more uranium but less other stuff

[grim crane]

the swamp was one huge storage

[grim crane]

mhhh

[vast jungle]

hey, its a possible way to spent your Plutonium Fuel Rods AND get rid of the waste

[grim crane]

we only use uranium for plants right?

[vast jungle]

now we can use the Plutonium ones too

[grim crane]

do you need uranium for ficsonium?

i know plutonium needs some

[vast jungle]

You need Plutonium Waste for Ficsonium Rods I think

[grim crane]

so no uranium ore extra?

so how much power could i waste on ficsonium rods if i use 100% of all uranium ore

[thorn bane]

no
only uranium rods uses more rods than urainum->plutonium->ficsonium is what i mean

[naive ingot]

You use it to make nuke nobelisks.

[thorn bane]

fertile is a bait

[vast jungle]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Ficsonium
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Ficsonium_Fuel_Rod

[tight crag]

I don't get the design idea behind energy values of nuclear energy.
They implemented rocket fuel so that nuclear stays optional.
But I think that going the extra mile and deal with those complex production chains should be also a lot more profitable than it is rn, especially ficsonium

[grim crane]

damm k