math-and-meta

[wet palm]

oh right, thank you

[vast jungle]

center input is in fact a balancer with two shorter manifolds, so it improves startup time

center output doesn't change anything... just do it if the layout says its useful

[meager creek]

i have 2 1100 belts and i need a 300 belt a 1200 belt and a 700 belt whats the best way to do that

[vast jungle]

manifold it?

[lethal condor]

Do they have to be balanced evenly?

If not just manifold and wait

[meager creek]

yes

[vast jungle]

the "best" way would depend on the layout of your factory... any combination of splitters/mergers that give enough stuff to your three belts would be okay

[lethal condor]

Use a convoluted array of splitters and mergers with slower belts to get the numbers right

[vast jungle]

e.g. split both 1100 belts, merge one of each split and turn it into the 1200 belt... use each of the remander of each split for the 300 and 700

two splitters, one merger... done

[meager creek]

i figured it out i smart splittered out the 700 line then split the remaining 400 into a 300 and 100 then merged the 100 into the 1100

[swift portal]

I just spent most of my evening doing the math on my computer production so I can futureproof it for supercomputers

I don’t think I have the math totally right because I’m not sure if I counted computer intake properly

[cursive heron]

is that with mk6, just split/merge the two 1100 belts so it turns into 1200 / 1000 then feed the 1200 belt to the 1200 input and manifold the 1000 belt to the 300/700 input

[tame birch]

Can someone tell me what is nuclear waste and how to get rid of it?

Im playing without tutorials and i just cant figure it out

[vapid gorge]

don't calculate by node, look at what the miner is outputing per min

[old palm]

Make it into plutonium fuel rods

And it’s the byproduct of using nuclear power

[prisma kraken]

for anyone interested, i just drew up this comparison for different rocket fuel chains, normalized on 600 sulfer/min as input:

[tame birch]

and what can i do with those?

[prisma kraken]

eat them

maybe flush them, idk

[tame birch]

bruh im asking seriously

[wet palm]

generally curious, what software did you use to make this comparison? is that Obsidian?

[prisma kraken]

it's an online tool - sp.runesun.com

[wet palm]

thanks

[prisma kraken]

it isn't a tool like greeny's sftools in that you need to know what you want to build, but it does the tallying and bookkeeping for you, and i find it useful in that way

[wet palm]

neato! thanks for sharing

[prisma kraken]

really it was built by a speedrunner for laying out a plan of what to build

[wet palm]

wait what is greenys sftools??

[prisma kraken]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

[wet palm]

oh that one, thanks

[prisma kraken]

all the tools are good at different things, i'm not going to draw comparisons, i just use the ones that are most effective for the problems i'm trying to solve

[old palm]

Put them into the nuclear reactor and make power or sink them

[quasi walrus]

Got the cast screw alt recipe

so you're telling me, it makes the same exact number of screws from ingots as you'd get making them from rods

but it takes 12.5 per minute in each constructor

Which means to get an even distribution, I need 10 constructors underclocked to 96%

[river night]

1 ingot makes 4 screws, rods is just an extra step

[quasi walrus]

Right, the ingot:screw ratio is the same

it's just that with the normal recipe, on a pure iron vein with an mk1 drill, you need 20 contructors

cast screws needs 10

[royal yacht]

Is it possible to use signals to make a one-way system? For example if I have a double track setup and I want the trains to go onto the monorail station from one and out the same direction but merge onto the other track?

[rare oar]

Can you sub coke for coal when making compacted coal?

[oblique hollow]

Put signal on one side of the track. then its one-way

[oblique hollow]

No. The recipe has to specifically ask for coke or coal

There is no alternate for compacted coal thats made from coke

[cursive heron]

I'm playing without tutorials, I can't figure something out
idk if tutorials disable ADA, but she should've told you what it is and how you can deal with it

[vast jungle]

not sure if the tutorial says much about nuclear waste removal anyways 😉

[wind spade]

It's a waste and you can store it or process further.

Also at that point in game it expects you to know how to make factory and deal with issuez, as you learned that earlier

[dense salmon]

yo can someone help me with recycled rubber and plastic numbers cuz satisfactory calculator isnt lol

[wind spade]

SCIM can't deal with them, try Satisfactory Tools

[dense salmon]

also doesnt seem to work lol

but i think its basically a 1 to 1 fuel to rubber / plastic?

[small wing]

is there a bug with drones? im trying to fuel them with uranium rods and make them carry uranium rods to fuel other drone stations but the uranium rods going into their normal storage just seem to disappear?

[wind spade]

it does work. I should know, I made it 🙂

what is the problem?

[dense salmon]

it used the normal rubber recipe

i told it to use recycled rubber but ig its just confused by cyclical stuff?

[bronze coral]

You can force it to use a recipe if you just turn of all the other recipes for that item

[dense salmon]

o tru

o well i figured it out anyway lol

[wind spade]

send share link

[dense salmon]

it um, doesnt really matter now lol i figured it out

[wind spade]

you shouldn't need to disable base recipe for that

[bronze coral]

Yep, just tried it and it does use it by default

[dense salmon]

o smth wierd its using residual rubber to like, fill the loop ig

[wind spade]

that's correct

alternate HOR produces byproduct resin, so Tools use that resin to add more product

[dense salmon]

thats kewl but it also doesnt let me not use it

[wind spade]

it is just straight up better, why wouldn't you want to use it?

(and if you don't want to use residual rubber, just disable it)

[dense salmon]

i said it doesnt let me but ur first point is fair

its just an extra 10 water extractors

[wind spade]

wdym by "doesn't let me"?

[dense salmon]

if i disable it it doesnt give a result

[wind spade]

send a share link

[dense salmon]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=IcKMCtXzf7ayWorBpyPX

[wind spade]

well, you have oil limited to 1800, it can't do that much plastic and rubber with so low limit

1800 oil to 5400 plastic/rubber is only possible with residual rubber in the mix

[dense salmon]

i see

[wind spade]

so either decrease amount of plastic and rubber you want to make or increase the limit
(generally I'd recommend not limiting the raw resources and just seeing how much you need and adjust product and recipes until you're happy)

[dense salmon]

ah ok so my maths was just wrong lmao

thank you!! :3

[vast jungle]

you still can of course (with Residual Rubber) turn 1800 Oil into 5400 Plastic... still, the Residual Rubber recipe will be involved

[wet spade]

I did some math for my Phase 2, hope it work

a more detailed version of this

[cursive heron]

huh it actually doesn't take that much power or buildings to process every caterium node in the map

[tame birch]

i didnt notice that she said it

[steep edge]

looks a little overkill but you do you

[sleek mantle]

A mere 334 foundries 😄

[wind spade]

@sullen delta @ebon cosmos see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[worn trout]

help?

THE MATH?

why is it taking 400 seconds

[wind spade]

did you clock it down before?

[worn trout]

ye

[sturdy pumice]

so that's why

[wind spade]

it needs to finish a cycle before changing clock speed

[worn trout]

oh resetting the recipie worked

[vast jungle]

new production cycle, new clock speed

[outer vale]

also applies to the sloop, takes a cycle before that kicks in

[worn trout]

oh so thats why i kept getting 1 pwoer shard from the first blue slug

[outer vale]

yeah, do a wire into cable cycle first (or whatever simple thing) to kick that in

[arctic dove]

How do you that, do you use any mod or website or it's in game ?

[vast jungle]

thats exactly what I do... turn Wire into a Cable to "activate" the sloop 😄

[vast jungle]

satisfactorytools

[arctic dove]

it's a mod ?

[vast jungle]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[wind spade]

it's a website
mods don't work now

[arctic dove]

ty

[worn trout]

W or L?

[vast jungle]

if you need screws in a factory that already has lots of Steel, this can be quite useful... if you need to import steel just for screws you are doing something wrong 😉

there might also be other recipes that let you work without Screws at all

[worn trout]

i mean im trying to import everything into one central location eventually

[wheat widget]

Alien Power Augmenter has an input... What do you feed the thing? O.o

[vast jungle]

keep researching, everything will be revealed

[wheat widget]

Gotcha, np!

Found it lol, been so long since I built that thing I'd forgotten all about the thing that comes right after it haha.

[vast jungle]

😄

[wheat widget]

Still a ways off though I'm sure. Working on finishing off Tier 8 and phase 4, but finally actually starting to make some phase 4 parts now at least! Gettin there! :D

[vast jungle]

good that you had your EUREKA moment 🙂

[wheat widget]

Fr, I just forgot all about that next spot in the mam lol, think I built that thing in like phase 2 or something silly like that cause I'd managed to find enough parts at wrecks, and 500 power is 500 power haha xD

[wind spade]

that depends on your preferences

[worn trout]

any way to make more screws for cheap is good IMO i jsut wanted tog et the opinion of people who are better at the game

[wheat widget]

tbh, personally I just dedicated like 2 normal iron nodes entirely to screws super early on and I've never had any issues with the things since.

[wind spade]

opinions differ based on preferences

some will tell you that it's great, some will tell you that it sucks and some will tell you that it depends on what you prefer.

[wraith ruin]

The nice thing about steel screws is it greatly reduces the amount of machines you need to make screws for any given recipe because the output is so high

[vast jungle]

if you need Screws, Steel Screws are a great way to quickly get A LOT of them... yes

[wheat widget]

reddit puts steel screws at A tier though in terms of the various alt recipes

Based on the math of this post
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fekus9/alternate_recipe_ranking_10_optimizing_for/

Which places them at the most efficient alt recipe for screws.

[vast jungle]

it depends a bit if you want to use Steel (and Coal!) for the Screws... if you lack lots of coal (because you are on coal power), Steel Screws are really bad

[wind spade]

heavily subjective and not recommended to use

[wraith ruin]

Does anyone lack coal in 1.0? There is so much of it

[wheat widget]

🤷

[worn trout]

ive got 6 impure nodes doing 1600 screws per minute rn

[vast jungle]

you often lack coal during Tier 3/4 when you still use most of your Coal for Power Generation...

at that point, Cast Screws (or normal ones) might be better

[wraith ruin]

So little Power is necessary to get through T3/4 I never scale it

[wheat widget]

I personally don't have enough steel production to dedicate any of my steel to screws, but plenty of completely untapped iron nodes laying all around me in the dune desert. It's one of the reasons I love this starting area so much. excessively underrated start.

I do have a number of untapped coal nodes around as well, but just haven't needed to ramp any further yet.

Things are just sitting at just about the right spot for me atm

[vast jungle]

thats exactly a situation where Steel Screws might not be great... at different times it might be good

[wheat widget]

Yah, so the age old "it depends" really applies lol

Does screw production become a bottleneck in tier 9 or something?

I'm always hearing people talk about needing more screws, but haven't yet run into that problem myself.

[vast jungle]

you can eleminate ALL screws from most production processes...

[wind spade]

never does, no machine requires more than 1200 screws/min

(unless heavily clocked, but even then I'm not sure if any machine can reach that)

[wheat widget]

Like, I've got the crystal computer recipe going for me as well, that one I'm sure has removed a ton of screws needed lol

[wraith ruin]

Belting hundreds or thousands of screws down a line of multiple machines is a pain. But if you put a single steel screws constructor right next to each one you can belt a tiny trickle of steel beams instead, that's the main use case.

[wheat widget]

I could totally see that, I've got branches of screws going all over the place from those couple of iron nodes I'm makin em from lol.

Tons of open space though, so the belts aren't so bad in the dune desert at least.

less of a plate of spaghetti and more like noodles thrown about here and there haha

[vast jungle]

Quickwire and Wire can also be quite annoying because they also stack to 500...

[wraith ruin]

The only thing I don't like about dunes is that there are so many nodes I feel like anything I build has to go over the top of them. It's flush with resources

[wheat widget]

I also do one thing that most probably don't. I fill a truck periodically and just manually drive a pile of circuit boards or wire over to my computer production line, or pipes over to to my HMF production line. People set up elaborate truck lines or railroad lines, but I feel like the resources spent doing all that could just be fed into a machine instead to give me something to do by manually running resources lol.

Fill a couple large containers, then go explore for an hour and a half and find all sorts of neat things. The exploration on this game is incredible with the beautiful map we have.

[vast jungle]

in the end you want to automate everything... doing it by hand will not scale

[pulsar cipher]

if you need screws, big W. screws always clog up belts when you need lots of them, so being able to make them when you need them is huge

[vast jungle]

but its a good solution when you are still transitioning to a different tech level

[wheat widget]

idk, im working on unlocking tier 9 and don't automate everything. I do automate a lot though, or at least partially automate it, like the aforementioned HMF where I bring over the pipes from time to time, or bringing over wire and circuit boards to my computer lines.

[wind spade]

screws clog belts because you put too much on there

simple solution is to not do that 🤷

[pulsar cipher]

i mean that you usually need a lot of them for recipes, so it doesnt make sense transporting them long distances

[wind spade]

exactly, so build screw constructor directly in front of the machine that needs those screws, connect them 1:1

[vast jungle]

at the minimum, don't merge the output of screw producers ^^

if you have four machines each needing 10/min screws, connecting them to a single Cast-Screws Constructor is fine

[vapid gorge]

all recipes have their situations where they shine - its basically up to you to figure out if you want to use them in those situations. Resource wise that's not super cheap screws

[silver aurora]

finally got a recip that dont need screws lol

[wind spade]

eh, extra cost for some convenience. not a big fan of it

[vast jungle]

having the same input for both Rotor and Stator can be nice...

but doing the Steel Pipes directly from Iron Ingots was a bit expensive 😄

[silver aurora]

just cost iron so its not that bad. since i have iron pipe and iron wire but yeah

[wind spade]

honestly I've never understood people saying this. You still need to make factories for all of the ingredients. Whether it's 10x or 5x + 5y (x and y being required items) is irrelevant, you still build roughly the same thing

[prisma kraken]

agreed, the ratings of recipes in those posts really isn't very good guidance

[wheat widget]

Creating a compact factory that only uses 1 node type, that's situated at that one node, is more efficient in some aspects than having to create a factory that uses 2 different nodes, as sometimes those two different nodes are further apart (and thus create more ground clutter with belts / running power / etc) than you would like to have to manage.
But, like all things, it's situational.

- or that uses fewer node types in general, etc.

[vast jungle]

I wanted to try it out for my current Motor factory... its insane how few Motors I got for 3x 270/min Iron 😄

[wind spade]

copper rotor ftw 😛

[vast jungle]

there was no copper closeby

[wind spade]

pick a better location 🙂

[wheat widget]

I hit the jackpot with dune desert for motors lol. That one crater in the northeast area is insane efficiency with base recipes. 🙂

it makes all my motors and all my encased beams hehe

[prisma kraken]

iron alloy or basic iron is the way to offset the cost there

[vast jungle]

and I really needed a few more ingredients to start oil processing for plastic and rubber... but now everything is rolling so the first train line (and the first Fuel powerplant) can start 😄

[silver aurora]

i did like the copper rotor tbh since my starting area had everything but lost crystal since one of the patches

[vast jungle]

Iron Alloy and Iron Wire together is an interesting combination

[silver aurora]

do you have the ability to collect every alt recip

[wheat widget]

supposedly yes, plus some spares even.

[wind spade]

5 spare drives

[wheat widget]

there we go

[silver aurora]

cool would you get copys of stuff you already have?

[wheat widget]

so it's kinda down to the wire to find basically every drive to "collect em all" lol

[wheat widget]

no, can't get duplicates

[silver aurora]

yeah thats the part i actually like you have to go search for stuff

[wheat widget]

if you're down to only one recipe you can use, it'll only show you that one option.

rather than 2 choices

[outer vale]

and if there's no options, it just doesn't let you scan

[prisma kraken]

technically the hd recipe pool is a tiny bit smaller than the 113 hd's you need for every alt b/c there's compacted coal, tf, rf, if that require drives

[wheat widget]

For sure, I'll always say that I love the exploration on this game.

[silver aurora]

i do hate the truck though it should have been alot better

it gets stuck on everything

[wheat widget]

Explorer is goated

[vast jungle]

yesterday I nearly drove my Explorer into one of the "map holes" 😄

[silver aurora]

yeah just unlocked that thing i drive it straight off my sky platform lol

[wheat widget]

oof lol

[wheat widget]

so much fun lol. hit e and pop your chute before you hit the ground, then just hop right back in it xD

[prisma kraken]

i'm happy they actually got the handling on the explorer about right, it sort of sucked in u8

[silver aurora]

lol imagine playing with it before u8

[wheat widget]

opinions on that exact topic are all over the place lol. some loved the slippery traction from u8

I agree with you on it feeling good in 1.0

can still mario kart it around corners with the spacebar hehe

[prisma kraken]

it was good before the engine upgrade, its just they didn't have the tuning of its physics quite right after

[silver aurora]

lol drive backwards

[wheat widget]

driving backwards is fine, turning while driving backwards though... 👀

[silver aurora]

haha yep

[prisma kraken]

i'm not saying it feels good, just it doesn't suck like it did

[silver aurora]

i got hit by radio active thing the other day and get jetted accross the map

[vast jungle]

also the stopping power of small trees can be annoying

[wheat widget]

omg fr

didn't the explorer used to be able to destroy small trees?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's a new change

[wheat widget]

ok, I wasn't sure if I was just mandellaing that or not lol

[vast jungle]

and I learned yesterday that jumping spiders don't take fall damage... a few of them missed me (the green poison spitting spiders) and fell quite a way down... after that I had Green Spiders running around on the ground!

[ashen girder]

Hogs though. It's fun watching them yeet themselves off a cliff then splatting.

[vast jungle]

nice jump-scare when you are back on the ground, got the HD and then get jumped from the same gang of spiders

I jumped into the Explorer and decided to leave the area

[wheat widget]

Time to make another 256 power shards xD

[ashen girder]

I still enjoy the irony that T1-T8, power shards are extremely valuable and relatively scarce, then at T9 they become waste material. 😂

[wheat widget]

I wish the blue slugs would mature over time... Since 1.0, I rarely bother to even grab em unless they're super convenient, which a lot are, but still lol.

[oblique star]

A while ago, I used to have a design of a water priority input, where all inputs are coming in at the same level, with a pump at that level, and each of those input go higher and higher to join the stream. The lowest one would have the highest priority, preventing lock ups. It appears not to work anymore, any update/details ?

[wheat widget]

Oh, I've been doubling the things since like t2-3, I pushed hard to make sure I wasn't wasting a bunch of the things early on that I could be slooping lol

[ashen girder]

Oh, for sure. Quadrupling DNA gains is still my favorite usecase.

[ashen girder]

Input priority junctions are generally broken, and have never really worked quite right to begin with. Find a better way.

[vast jungle]

very nice for emptying the Awesome shop

[wheat widget]

100% goated use case lol

Only have a few of the color paints left to get there now myself lol

[ashen girder]

I've got everything but the statuary. Holding out for my gold nut.

[wheat widget]

Oh yah, I'm not messing with the statues right now either.

those are just pure sink really lol. honestly kinda rather just buy needed recourses to save time than mess with the statues. :p

i sure there's a cheeve though

[edgy leaf]

omg, did yall know u can place multiple train connections on the same spot using nudge mode?

[wheat widget]

i have my copy on epic though, so don't really care much about the cheeves heh

[ashen girder]

There is for the golden nut, yeah.

[ashen girder]

I did! I still want to know if it works as a more than 3 way split for trains, though.

[vast jungle]

there are those SF players who are Screwed... and there are those who are Nuts!

[edgy leaf]

yes it does, accordiing to this video https://youtu.be/Qoz2V77AuHA

[ashen girder]

Neat.

[edgy leaf]

going to try it out once my game has updated

[ashen girder]

I bet it makes the switch sign go crazy. 🤣

It only supports 3 directions.

[edgy leaf]

i really dont care, i hope they never patch this

[wheat widget]

Choo Choo M******

[edgy leaf]

YES

[wheat widget]

xD

[sharp sorrel]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. But ive had the idea in mind to make a factory thats less dedicated to one item but can automatically overflow its resources to other machines when not needed (or limit flow using slower belts to give priority to other areas of the factory when needed). If this is possible is there a name for this type of design?

[edgy leaf]

choo fucking choo

[wheat widget]

Best ADA line ever xD

[ashen girder]

Smart splitters.

For liquids, overflow junctions.

For gasses and nongasses, godspeed.

[wheat widget]

still splitters, but you gotta bottle em xD

[ashen girder]

Can't bottle nongasses.

But yeah, you can do overflow shenanigans with gasses and packagers, true.

[wheat widget]

im not sure what a "nongas" is... lol.

[oblique hollow]

T9 stuff

[ashen girder]

It's a substance that behaves like a gas but can't be packaged. 🤣 It's tautological.

[wheat widget]

gotcha lol

[ashen girder]

And yeah, T9 stuff.

[wheat widget]

Almost there. 🙂

[ashen girder]

EPM and DMR. Is there a third one?

[sharp sorrel]

Is it as simple as that then? Ive been struggling to balance certain items with limited input. So thought there must be a way to make the output variable. If its as simple setting smart splitters to overflow then ill just go for that 😅

[wheat widget]

Probably only another couple weeks haha

[ashen girder]

I feel that, I'm slogging through phase 4. 😭

[ashen girder]

Without more specifics, I can't be more specific, but yeah, for what you said, overflow splitters are what's up.

[wheat widget]

But yah, smart splitter or programmable splitter to overflow. (depending on how many items you're working with)

[ashen girder]

Protip: don't put more than one product on a belt and make proggers utterly pointless forever.

[wheat widget]

what, you don't like sushi? xD

🍣

[ashen girder]

I do, but only if it's fresh.

[wheat widget]

hehe

[edgy leaf]

its a gas but they pretend it isnt a gas and make it so u cant package it. its all a big psyop, obviously, by the shadow government

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's why it's nongas. 😄

We were informed we would make people displeased if we called them gasses.

So they're not gasses, that act like gasses.

[sharp sorrel]

Interesting! Thanks guys! I tend to overthink this stuff while im working away from the game and imagined this would be more complicated than it is, but should be easy enough to implement later

[ashen girder]

@tame frigate Patchnotes say they fixed the hard drive scanning bug!

[storm imp]

Perfect Wednesday in my view :D

[wheat widget]

https://tenor.com/view/wednesday-hump-day-betty-white-golden-girls-faint-gif-24476589

[urban kite]

it looks so tiny from up here 😦

[cloud tree]

whast a nice computer p/m amount ? (:

[ashen girder]

69

[vast jungle]

one Machine at 100%?

if you are not sure about numbers, starting with a single machine is always a good start...

assuming you only need them for the Dimensional Depot and your personal storage

[wheat widget]

That would indeed be nice.

[ashen crypt]

today's patch notes said they updated the map, wonder if any resource node was changed #patch-notes message

[wind spade]

I'm pretty sure that means the map background

or maybe some fixes of map decorations

[ashen crypt]

like, the image and not the walkable map

[wind spade]

doubt that there will be any significant map changes

[ashen crypt]

i just dont wanna rescan a lot again

[wind spade]

99.9% that nodes didn't move

[potent isle]

How do i make sure that exactly 67.5 goes into those constructors? should i just manifold the cast screw and iron rod line in one ?

[ashen girder]

You should just manifold them, yes.

[hot junco]

Well you cant really split fractions that easily so your best bet is to just manifold and overflow the rest to something else

[potent isle]

So basically have the same single manifold for both iron rods and screws right?

[hot junco]

There's no downside to manifolds once they are fully saturated so no real reason not to

50.63 is such a weird number though

What exactly are you making with that?

[potent isle]

modular frames

[ashen girder]

Well, when you say "same single", they should be different belts. 😅

[hot junco]

Is this an alt recipe or how are you getting those fractions?

[potent isle]

but then ill have the problem of dividing them again

[ashen girder]

I mean screws on one belt, rods on another belt.

[hot junco]

Isnt basic Modular frame exactly 24 iron ore?

without any alts?*

[ashen girder]

Apparently yes. 😂

[hot junco]

Oh its 'cause youre using 270 as an input..

I'd produce 10/minute for now and just expand to 20/min later when you have mk4 belts

[potent isle]

I have a bolted frame alt available is it any better?

[ashen girder]

Not for you, no.

[hot junco]

Bolted is more expensive iirc

[ashen girder]

It is.

It's useful because it reduces machine count.

[hot junco]

nothing speaks against just making your 11.25 by the way. I just find it easier to make 10 and go to 20 later cause you just double everything

[wheat widget]

Oof, I need 2,505 Stators for the next thing.... and 50,100 cables... ;-;

Time to sloop and cut it in half!

[potent isle]

Alright then ill just do 10 i have some sloops aswell so can i place them in the final assemblers?

Going for phase 2 so really need them as quick as possible

[hot junco]

If you have the power required and dont need the sloops for other stuff, sure thing

[potent isle]

Can i place sloops on smelter?

[wheat widget]

Not on a smelter, no, unfortunately.

[hot junco]

Yes

[wind spade]

just place them on latest machine in a chain

[wheat widget]

Wait, can you put em on a smelter??

[hot junco]

Main problem in phase 2, at least imo is more the steel beams instead of mod frames

[vast jungle]

one manifold for each item type... never mix stuff on a single belt 😉

[wheat widget]

omg you can lol

but not on a miner

[wind spade]

not like it's any useful to put sloops on early machines. Putting them on last machine doubles the entire chain

[urban kite]

i think they are talking about an input manifold

[potent isle]

Got it

[hot junco]

its like what, 500 mod frames and 6000 steel beams so prolly better to sloop your beams

[vast jungle]

yes, and using the same manifold (belt) for two item types is possible but if you need to ask you should not do it

[hot junco]

and then frameworks if you just wanna speedrun though p2

[urban kite]

no i mean iron ingots manifold into both screw and iron rod constructors

[vast jungle]

thats fine...

[potent isle]

Ill just make a lot of mods first using the sloops once i have enough ill make the beams

[vast jungle]

but I have a friend who likes sushi belts and then use multiple smart-splitters to feed the machines

[potent isle]

Beams although are being made at a normal pace in a steel factory

[hot junco]

I've started playing around with sushi belts, honestly quite interesting

[vast jungle]

yes, but dangerous... I used a special Sushi-Balancer in my last-playthrough to fill up a train wagon with different items...

[urban kite]

sushi belts look so cool but i would not use them in a serious factory, just in one to look fun

[hot junco]

If you make sure it can never overflow its pretty useful

[ashen girder]

"never overflow" basically just means "throw some amount of it in the trashcan" 😛

[vast jungle]

make parts of it Awesome! 😉

or in the long run, store it in form of Golden Nuts

VERY compact storage

[urban kite]

i dont know if you can call it storage if you can't get the items back out...

[white bloom]

can you have more than one golden nut? wow

[hot junco]

In theory you can have infinite

[white bloom]

I shall declare maxing awesome points as the ultimate end goal of the game with more confidence then in the future

[hot junco]

Actually prolly not cause coupon price should eventually overflow no?

[white bloom]

yeah, of course there will be some technical limitation

[urban kite]

depends on whether or not they are using an arbitrary precision int for it.......... but even then it would be limited to your RAM or smth

[ashen girder]

18446744073709551615 being the limit. 😂

[hot junco]

Definitely easier to get more golden nuts than before 1.0 cause warp drives are insane points per item

[white bloom]

i mean yeah, we went from like 180 million points per minute to around 485 million now

plus you get coupons from DNA capsules like crazy

sloops go brr

[hot junco]

Not adding a diamond nut honestly makes the game unplayable

[urban kite]

TRUE

[white bloom]

quantum nut. either you nut or you don't, until it is observed

[hot junco]

You encode your nuts? Techy

[ashen girder]

If your next ticket costs 18446744073709551615 points, you are on ticket #18904575940052136857026728849130506013500

[white bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-spin-bolt-science-gif-17421913

quantum nut go brr

[ashen girder]

No, wait that's wrong too. Ignore me.

[white bloom]

yeah the coupons grow slower than the points necessary to get them

i think incremental cost grows by the power of two and thus cumulative cost by power of three

[grim crane]

Guys, whats more meta rn?
The coke steel?
Or the solid steel?

The solid steel makes more sense for me personally for its lower resource use, but maybe i am seeing smt wrongly

Cus you could combine it with pure iron ingot or like the iron alloy

[hot junco]

I always go for solid cause its so much easier to make

[grim crane]

How tho mathematically?

[white bloom]

glad you asked! one sec

[grim crane]

Ehh sure!

I have time

(idc about power cost or my sanity in machine amount)

[tame harbor]

Solid Steel is what I go for

You can directly feed the solid steel ingot foundries into beam constructors 1-1, and pipe constructors 1-2

[grim crane]

Oh 1.1 would be nice to have

[hot junco]

If you go pure iron into solid steel you pay 1,06 Ore + 2 Coal per 3 Steel

[grim crane]

...

[grim crane]

What if i combine it with the alloy Iron?

[hot junco]

Molded beam/pipe can help with your steel costs

[tame harbor]

Though that doesn't feed as cleanly

[hot junco]

Alloy funnily enough is the same iron cost but you add copper into it

[grim crane]

Oh damm

?
Am i bad at math?

[tame harbor]

Pure Iron is pretty okay if you're making it near water

[hot junco]

But it uses copper instead of water

[grim crane]

Ah

Honestly
good trade off

I tecnically can use refineries already, but i rly dont feel like pipes

[hot junco]

You trade annoyance for copper basically

[grim crane]

Yeah

[hot junco]

and more power obviously

[grim crane]

Eh this is already not sane so

[ashen girder]

Alloy's slightly more efficient. 1.875 vs 1.857.

Also foundries use way less power than refineries and water pumps.

[hot junco]

As I said if you go molded beam/molded pipe you can add limestone to reduce the amount of steel needed

[grim crane]

Like im definitly going insane with this...

[past reef]

pure iron is pretty good but I struggle making a nice modular layout with it

[grim crane]

i need mk4 belts

[tame harbor]

Iron Alloy is 2.25 iron Ore->Ingot (and also 7.5 Copper per ingot)

Pure Iron is 1.85 Iron ore per ingot

ignore me I fucked up the math a bit

[hot junco]

Wat

You pay 7 ore to get 13 ingots

[ashen girder]

Iron Alloy is 1.875 iron ingot per iron ore.

Pure Iron is 1.857 iron ingot per iron ore.

[tame harbor]

Oops got ingots/ore mixed up

[grim crane]

I hate math.

Still waiting for what Mario has to say

[hot junco]

You let mario cook its joever

[grim crane]

Is he known for that?

Can he math my belts 💀

[hot junco]

Idk but they are calculating some coke stuff so has to be an exquisite stew

[edgy leaf]

agHHhh i hate pipeline science 😭

[grim crane]

Me to, me to

[edgy leaf]

god (satisfactory)hates me

[hot junco]

Did you use a floor hole?

[grim crane]

i play this game in my depressive stress phases... just making it worse

[grim crane]

Does anyone actually uses them?

never used them, seem very wastefull

For lifts

[hot junco]

I do sometimes only to be disappointed

[edgy leaf]

no. my machines run at 99% efficiency, i dont think that could be caused by a floor hole

[grim crane]

Pipes they are a bit more usefull i guess

[hot junco]

Are you using valves and all the funny stuff that bricks pipes?

[edgy leaf]

nope, no valves.

[hot junco]

&floor holes actually can cause that

[grim crane]

Omg yaqll needa see my old Piping i used in my old save for my big bauxit refinmenet

Nightmare fuel

[hot junco]

I can try and help fix it ig

Is it turbo fuel?

[tame harbor]

Well a more relevant method to think of Pure/Alloy iron ingot is buildings/Mk6 belt

Pure Iron needs 18.46 refineries to reach 1,200 iron ingots/minute, or 7 refineries at 250% and 1 at 96% overclock

Iron Alloy Ingot needs 16 Refineries to reach 1,200 iron ingots/minute, or 6 at 250% and one at 100% overclcok

[grim crane]

Update 3 me thought this is a good idea

[delicate cradle]

o.0 good lord

[grim crane]

it gets worse

[hot junco]

Time to leave the kitchen my guy

[grim crane]

Yall wanna see my beta weekend to update 2 save?

[edgy leaf]

its wet concrete.

[tame harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/spaghetti-charlie-gif-13776559

[hot junco]

thats.. new

[grim crane]

This was 2019 stuff

[hot junco]

did you replace the pipes after adding pumps?

[edgy leaf]

yes

[grim crane]

@hot junco Opinion?

[edgy leaf]

i replaced the pipes after adding junctions too

[hot junco]

Is that the entire pipe network that is causing problems?

[edgy leaf]

here are the two water extractor interfaces

[edgy leaf]

yes, thats the entire network

[delicate cradle]

My turn now. A blue crater lake powerplant that turns all available resources(4 sulf nodes, 7 coal nodes(not calculated excess coal into power yet) and 2550 oil per minute, all turned into power. The only thing this powerplant produces is 350k megawatts, and 3400 resin a minute.

[hot junco]

The only thing on first glance might be floor holes resetting your head lift

[grim crane]

Put the pump later

And make it only 1 maybe

Could be that those are fighting each other in a weird way

[edgy leaf]

i am not using floor holes

[hot junco]

You mean you clip your pipes though them?

cause I see some

[edgy leaf]

yep

[grim crane]

Mario?
you alive?

[edgy leaf]

i used them at first, then i clipped through them. no difference

[hot junco]

Lemme do some cooking

[unborn ermine]

Love using fake holes myself when I need to go through multiple floors

[white bloom]

@grim crane shadow price is by how much your goal value increases in the optimal solution if that constraint is relaxed by 1 unit (i.e. you get 1 for free). in the meta production line for points, the shadow price (points/item) for 1 of each is:
Iron Ore = 213.88
Iron Ingot = 141.84
Coal = 1248.92
Compacted Coal = 2569.97
Steel Ingot = 832.67
1 MWmin energy = 52.02 --> 1 MJ = 52.02/60 = 0.867

when you do compacted steel: 4 * 832.67 - 16 * 24 * 0.867 - 1 * 2569.97 - 2 * 213.88 = 0.022 (due to rounding error), = 0
when you do solid steel: 3 * 832.67 - 16 * 3 * 0.867 - 2 * 1248.92 - 2 * 141.84 = -325.13
as you can see, solid steel is negative, so introducing it in positive amounts into the optimal solution would deteriorate it.

[hot junco]

I had some problems with a similar setup in my plastic/rubber stuff

[grim crane]

ok ok

[edgy leaf]

it worked 100% perfectly fine when side feeding. i saw some messages about COD about how to make bototmfeeding work and i really want bottomfeeding to work so i tried it out again after it failed the first time and it still doesnt work

if i switch back to side feeding itll work fine again, but id much rather bottomfeed it

[white bloom]

I got compacted and coke steel confused earlier btw. i meant compacted

[hot junco]

Can you check flowrate right after the first junction after the pumps?

[grim crane]

Ah ok

[delicate cradle]

Lumiina whats your opinion on this

[white bloom]

compacted is the way. btw all the compacted coal comes as a byproduct from Rocket Fuel production

[hot junco]

My opinion is that you need jesus by your side for that

[edgy leaf]

i only very rearely catch it below 600 for a second

[delicate cradle]

:)

[grim crane]

DAmm ok?

[edgy leaf]

yea just now it was at 598 for a second or two, wasnt fast enough to screenshot it

hah! caught it

[hot junco]

I think the problem is the first junction cause of fluid dynamics running into each other at an equal rate

[grim crane]

soo

yals opinion on best way to make your first fuel plant?

before you have the fancy Blender

[edgy leaf]

how would u change that?

[hot junco]

Doing some testing rn

[amber jacinth]

I've always done packager -> diluted packed -> unpackage

[grim crane]

mh

[amber jacinth]

Easy to swap out for blenders when those become available

[grim crane]

I want belt fuel gens back
So simple

[amber jacinth]

[hot junco]

Can you try feeding the water into the bottom row and removing the loop?

[edgy leaf]

thats what i did before and it didnt work iirc, i added the loop and feeding from the top because thats what COD recommended. ill try switching back to no loop and see if that makes it work again, maybe something i changed between then and now makes it work without loop

removing the loop made it a lot less reliable

[hot junco]

Last thing I can think of is that bottom feeding is just bricked in 1.0 for whatever reason cause I have the same happen in my oil plant

[hot junco]

Actually why dont you just split it into 300/300 and leave it at that

[edgy leaf]

yea i gave up on bottomfeeding too, then i saw cobalt say that its quite easy if u just do these simple things and i felt like i couldnt not use bottomfeeding at that point

[edgy leaf]

like i said this is kinda test scenario for my oil plant, ill be getting 600 out of those extractors so just doing 300/300 from source isnt possible

[ashen girder]

Everything's easy if you don't run at 600. 😂

[hot junco]

This might honestly be a bug at this point cause it only ever happens when you feed something from the bottom

[ashen girder]

I don't understand how this isn't possible?

[edgy leaf]

you cant just keep the sources seperate if its a single source

you have to split from 600 at some point because one extractor makes 600

combining the water extractors and splitting them again also doesnt make it work, i tried

[ashen girder]

So splitting it into two separate pipes and feeding those separately doesn't work?

[hot junco]

Nah I mean making two seperate water loops entirely

[edgy leaf]

having them seperate from the very beginning works iirc, combining them and then seperating them doesnt work iirc

[ashen girder]

I'm surprised combining then separating them doesn't work, honestly.

[hot junco]

I have a schizo idea

[ashen girder]

Is it "don't bottomfeed like everyone else suggests"?

[hot junco]

Can you replace the extrators and make sure they turn on at the same time?

[edgy leaf]

i got it working

[hot junco]

Oh?

[ashen girder]

What was the solution?

[edgy leaf]

i think this makes it work

using mk1 pipes before the combining junction

both water extractors are consistently at 0 water in the buffer

[ashen girder]

Neat.

[hot junco]

For my sanity can you replace the other 2 pipe segments too? xd

[wintry marlin]

Hi guys, i am again bored at work, whats the current topic of discussion?

[edgy leaf]

i got the idea becuaes i saw the flow rate in the two side pipes fluctuate between 298 and 302 constantly

[edgy leaf]

making feeding machines from below with fluid work

i guess this means that having a single oil extractor with a 600 pipe out of it will work fine with bottom feeding?

[ashen girder]

Yay sloshing.

[hot junco]

That was my initial suspicion cause you have two liquids pushing into the same junction and if they are offset by a tiny bit then one flow will push into the other pipe and reset your flow

[edgy leaf]

because it would be the same situation, a single pipe of 600 going into the system

[wintry marlin]

package them, elevator to the top, unpackage, and feed from top

[ashen girder]

Wrong concept of "top".

[edgy leaf]

headlift isnt the issue, im trying to have the pipe go up to the input from below, for aesthetic reasons

also, it being difficult makes me want to make it work even more...

[ashen girder]

Basically fighting gravity at the input itself.

[hot junco]

I'll yank that into my blender setup

[edgy leaf]

nvm they're at 5 again...

[hot junco]

well guess I wont

[edgy leaf]

😭

what is this, 99.9% efficiency????

[ashen girder]

299/300 rounds up to 100%. 😄

99.67% efficiency.

For funsies, what happens if you toss valves on the final pipe at 100%?

Like, just before each machine.

Or just after each junction. Idk.

[wintry marlin]

noooo, not valves

[ashen girder]

DOO IT.

[wintry marlin]

they are the work of the devil

[ashen girder]

FOR SCIENCE.

[ashen girder]

Sometimes one must reach for the dark arts to make dark things happen.

[hot junco]

Valves should be fine in this scenario cause the pipes should be full

[ashen girder]

And the 256 precision thing shouldn't matter if they're wide open.

[wintry marlin]

wait, this may be me being stupid and not understanding fluid physics, but would it help to put the pump on even ground?

[ashen girder]

Also, I thought I heard they fixed the weird scaling on valves.

[edgy leaf]

pumps dont push fluid, they just increase headlift

[noble timber]

Help in what way?

[wintry marlin]

i know, just had a feeling that it might cause some weird shit there, cant explain it

[ashen girder]

Discord does Science.

[wintry marlin]

idk, just felt like it

[polar wave]

I’ve had some perceived wonkiness with pipes on inclines, so I try to always make them vertical or horizontal on a foundation. Probably doesn’t matter but it makes me feel better I guess.

[ashen girder]

I love how superstitious everyone always is with things like this in games.

"Maybe it's the wrong color?"

And, I mean.. that very well could be relevant. 🤣

[polar wave]

Yeah idk the fluid system in this game is kinda odd though. It’s like super realistic but also kinda isn’t.

[ashen girder]

100% yeah.

And they don't really explain it. At all.

[noble timber]

It has realistic properties yeah but you can't actually apply real fluid mechanics to it

[ashen girder]

"Here's pipes, here's bits and pieces. Good luck."

[edgy leaf]

#1287987061361610793 message this is the image i was referring to

[polar wave]

Also spin on your head three times and click your heels twice otherwise we’ll leave a tiny piece of mk1 pipe in your junction 🙂

[hot junco]

COD definitely is a pipe wizard thats the concerning part

[ashen girder]

Man, the number of people who've gotten almost combative over checking for slivers of pipe and belt, when that turned out to be the problem. 😭

[noble timber]

It's a surprisingly common problem

[polar wave]

Yeah I had one rack of refineries once that wasn’t working and I couldn’t figure it out so I deleted and reset the whole pipe and then it worked great. I assume it was just a pipe bug

[urban kite]

i wish the pipe simulation was simpler for sake of not confusing my poor brain

[hot junco]

Can you try not bottom feeding?

[polar wave]

Wow. Insulting ngl

[hot junco]

Even if it looks shit for a bit

[edgy leaf]

i was side feeding and it worked just fine like i said earlier.

[frosty owl]

Just load-balance your pipes, ez

[hot junco]

Ah

[ashen girder]

Yeah, side and top feeding works better, we all agree on that. 😂

I still think you should try the valves.

[edgy leaf]

so true! i love setting my valve to 129.63, it totally works

i always die inside when youtubers do that...

[hot junco]

Whats the flow rate in the pipes going up?

should fluctuate a lot

[edgy leaf]

between 70 and like 200 i think

[hot junco]

should

[frosty owl]

Eh, I was talking about actual load-balancing, not just choking throughput :P

( https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/s/WogpLPr4x4 )

[edgy leaf]

it seems to be working fine right now after i flooded the system again? ill wait a bit and see

[ashen girder]

With the pipe mismatch still?

[frosty owl]

I don't :D

[ashen girder]

..really?

[noble timber]

Same 😂

[deft lichen]

you could say that side feeding is on top

[ashen girder]

Y'all don't think it's easier to top or side feed?

[noble timber]

I bottom feed fairly often as I like how it looks

[edgy leaf]

please teach me the ways of bottomfeeding

[ashen girder]

That's not really what I said, though.

[frosty owl]

I think whichever is fine, so long as one builds pipes "properly" (a very clear and objective parameter, I know...)

[noble timber]

Side feeding is the easiest to build, I agree

[ashen girder]

Easiest to build and make reliable.

[bleak veldt]

is rubber or plastic more important to have more of?

[edgy leaf]

i have a very simple setup, two water extractors and 4 refineries, and no matter what i try i cant get it to reliably bottomfeed (while combining the extractors)

[edgy leaf]

depends on what u want to do

[bleak veldt]

beat the game?

[ashen girder]

It's important to have both, in that case.

[noble timber]

I usually start by making equal amounts of both and then if I need more of, say, plastic I would use the recycled alt to turn spare rubber into plastic

[hot junco]

I think the problem is that it takes longer for the water to travel upwards in the pipe, thats kinda why the head life displayed in the pumps is fluctuating and that creates a mismatch of some kind

[edgy leaf]

i heard the issue is that one machine eating fluid makes hte fluid drop in the other pipes too so they end up consuming less than 600 sometimes

[ashen girder]

I heard it was related to the phase of the moon and tides.

[frosty owl]

Since your nickname pleases me, I shall
Jokes aside, I don't think I can encapsulate my experience with pipes in a easy-to-read format like McGalleon has, so I can only help with specific examples or with the generic "don't make systems more complex than needed and build things as" properly" as possible, avoiding clipping or weird angles/height differences..."

[hot junco]

Yeah cause when one machine consumes water the pressure in your other upwards pipes drops to fill the liquid that just got consumed

It might work when all refinieries turn on at the same time

[edgy leaf]

heres my system. the only weird angle is the one coming out of the pump

[noble timber]

Pressure doesn't exist

[frosty owl]

What are the numbers involved?

[hot junco]

well actually it wouldnt cause it fills up the nearest pipes at the end of your loop first

[edgy leaf]

two water extractors pulling 300 each, combined to 600, feeding 4 refineries that take 150 each.

i know i could seperate the extractors and have two totally seperate loops and itd work, but i want to use htis as training to find out how to build my oil setup so it works, and with oil u get 600 out of one machine so splitting them isnt really an option

[grim wave]

The water doesn't have much space to 'slosh' around though. Try making your loop horizontal instead of vertical.

[frosty owl]

Ah, good 'ol 600/min issue...

[edgy leaf]

i had the same setup while sidefeeding and it worked with 100% efficiency

[wintry marlin]

but then it should actually be fixable with valves no?

[edgy leaf]

heres the water extractor UIs

[wintry marlin]

unless i am misunderstanding the problem

[hot junco]

unless fixed valves almost never let exactly the required amount through

[edgy leaf]

notice how they say they are at 100% efficiency but have some liquid inside of them. if i waited another 10-30 minutes they would start stalling occasionally

[frosty owl]

I can see one water Extractor, but where's the other? Is it next to the first or farther off?

[noble timber]

Think I have seen at least 5 people daily running into the "issue" and then others feeding into it by saying that there is problems with mk. 2 pipes despite it being confirmed on the latest stream that they are absolutely fixed

[hot junco]

There was never anything broken about mk2 pipes though

its just fluid dynamics being complicated and very intricate

[noble timber]

There used to be a bug that made all the fluid in pipe disappear upon loading a save which made it hard to achieve full flow rate out of a mk. 2 pipe

[edgy leaf]

well i havent restarted the game since flooding the system

[noble timber]

Not impossible though

[edgy leaf]

they're at 25 now, so filling very very slowly

[ashen girder]

This is definitely fixed though. Has been for awhile. I just checked the other day.

[noble timber]

Yeah that is what I said

[frosty owl]

The merging part seems fine. No chaos, pipes all on the same height and almost of the same lengths too
What I would first try to improve the system on would be:

1. Removing the Loop
2. Removing the junctions at the ends of the system
3. connecting the system to the water input from the middle of the pipeline (I'm not sure if the exact middle is best, but I suggest trying placing a junction there to feed the system)

Do feel free to ask if anything I described is not clear as small details can make a lot of difference in pipework sometimes!

[noble timber]

I am big on having your incoming pipe in the middle of the manifold

[frosty owl]

Well, not all, "just" a tiny amount for every machine connected. It took several save-loads to empty pipework

[noble timber]

Ah ok, my mistake. 👼

[edgy leaf]

its funny, cod says the loop is important but u say its detrimental

😩

[hot junco]

The loop is fine the problem is where you feed the loop

it will always prioritize the most left and right

[frosty owl]

Ngl, I think trying to keep the pipework "sensible" like this can do a lot (this was exceedingly clear in my pipe-balancing post, jokes aside I do recommend giving it a glance)

[noble timber]

Yeah I have just read it and it makes a lot of sense

[frosty owl]

There are different schools of thought on that ahah
I just never used/needed loops so I try not to add them when suggesting as they're a bit of a question mark in the system for me

[noble timber]

Subconsciously I do tend to keep pipes always equidistant and everything the same length which - at least to me - seems to have a big impact on how reliable your network is.

I must confess this was mainly done for aethetics until I actually realised that it can have an impact 😂

[edgy leaf]

its running full faster than before now

already back up at 3 in the water extractors

flow rate at 560 sometimes, before it only rarely dropped to 598

[ashen girder]

I bet you still haven't tried using valves, huh. 😦

[frosty owl]

Same. And I noticed a strong correlation between people having "nice" pipe designs and lack of pipe issues 😅

[edgy leaf]

where do u want ur valves?

[grim wave]

Complete opposite for me, I've got a consistent 600/m oil plant but it would only remain constant with a loop in. Pipes are wack

[ashen girder]

I dunno! Either right below the machine on the input pipe or just after each junction.

[frosty owl]

Do you emtpy the system before you restart it?

[edgy leaf]

no, i flood it

i flood it and then when its running i remove the contents of the water extractors

its up at 40 now, before it took like 5 times as long just to get to 20

[vapid gorge]

you can set up systems that don't need loops, they just aren't the average layouts people tend to build

[edgy leaf]

any advice on how to make this bottomfeeding system work? ive tried everything people recommended so far

i actually gave up on bottomfeeding but then i saw htat image from u where u said itll make bototmfeeding work so now im trying to make it work again

[vapid gorge]

this is the set up I designed after a lot of testing

[edgy leaf]

mine was basically the same, one sec

[edgy leaf]

here

ill try to recreate urs 1 to 1 one sec

[vapid gorge]

And you flooded it, including hte machines, before turning it fully on?

[frosty owl]

Another recommendation I'd make would be making the outputs of the junctions look all the same.
In other words: make sure all outputs are straight pipe segments at 90 dgreees from the junction. So avoid having the junction output directly to the floor holes
If one side of the pipework is different from the other (even just because of pipe angle), sloshing may occur more easily/strongly

Or, in other words: the more symmetrical a pipe system is, the less issues it tends to show

[vapid gorge]

that layout is what I developed to make this thing work xD

[edgy leaf]

yes, all machines fully flooded and turned on one fater the other

[noble timber]

Love it

[frosty owl]

(After I fixed some of the issues in your pipe layout strategies)

[edgy leaf]

i idled all machines, turned one on until it was at 50 and then idled it again, until all were turned off and at 50. then i wiated for the water extractors to full up and turned the machines on one after the other. then i emptied the water extractors and waited. they started filling very slowly

[vapid gorge]

look, if you like, you could send me your save and I could trouble shoot it in the morning

just set the hub there with pipe building materials, and maybe a hover pack if you have it

[vapid gorge]

different project 😛 and could never get that other one more than 93%

[frosty owl]

@edgy leaf similar to what Cobalt said, but if you don't mind screensharing your game, I can try helping that way rather than loading the save

[vapid gorge]

I'm going to bed in like 2 min, hope you sort it somehow - if not dm me the save and I'll look when I wake up

[edgy leaf]

okii thanks, good night

[ashen girder]

What recipe are you using, anywho?

[frosty owl]

6 Satiscoins Cobalt will still be replying in the server half an hour from now

[edgy leaf]

i set it up the exact same way as in the screenshot (besides the distance form loop to input) and it feels rather quickly still.

[frosty owl]

BTW, up for some screensharing action later or nah?
No pressure, just to organize my afternoon ^^

[edgy leaf]

im really not a fan of calls, sorry. if ur fine with it i could send you the save

preparing it rn for cobalt anyway

[ashen girder]

Wet concrete?

4 At 150%?

[edgy leaf]

yep

[frosty owl]

No worries~
I'll leave the ball in Cobalt's court then
Oh, PS though: If you're self-conscious about speaking, we can avoid using mics ^^

[hot junco]

I wouldnt mind tinkering around with the save as well I have some theories I want to test

[edgy leaf]

calls just generally make me really anxious

even without talking

[edgy leaf]

alright ill send it to u later

[frosty owl]

Gotcha 👍

[ashen girder]

New #math-and-meta challenge. Make a 2x Water Extractor @ 250% -> 4x Wet Concrete @ 150% setup run at 100% efficiency with a single pipe between them. (Bottom fed for extra points.)

[edgy leaf]

it worked fine for me when sidefeeding, it has to be bottomfeeding

[urban kite]

why call it a "challenge" when its impossible

[edgy leaf]

do other players have access to your depots when they load into ur world?

[ashen girder]

Because a lot of people here suggest it isn't impossible. 😛

[edgy leaf]

it works just fine when sidefeeding

[hot junco]

Its something I said earlier, the fluid in the other pipe drops whenever one machine consumes water and then water climbing up in the pipe takes longer than one water extractor cycle

Thats why I'm wondering if synching up all machines works

[urban kite]

for now....

[edgy leaf]

a fluid buffer might help then 🤔

[edgy leaf]

wdym for now? i left it running for over 24 hours and the water extractors were still empty

[ashen girder]

Probably the moon phase.

[edgy leaf]

its because mercury is in retrograde

[ashen girder]

Definitely. 😁

[torn yacht]

gonna have 1500 leftover silica/min from an alminum factory, what should I use it for other than uranium waste?

[ashen girder]

Use it for aluminum.

Or the silicon alts. They're pretty nice.

[hot junco]

SCs or HSCs maybe

[edgy leaf]

well, the water extractor cycle should stop being an issue when the water extractors are constantly at 100

[hot junco]

It's only at 100 cause it buffers itself to 200 and then turns off no?

[torn yacht]

using pure aluminium alternate

[ashen girder]

Yes, I'm suggesting you don't use it only.

[torn yacht]

ah, makes more sense

[hot junco]

Use pure aluminum for the rest yea

[ashen girder]

You can blend them to use the silica.

[hot junco]

cause you get more with silica

Its 3:2 instead of 2:1

[torn yacht]

sounds good thanks

[frosty owl]

Tbf, I haven't tried, but I'm fairly sure that "load-balancing" the system, it would work (we got close to it before, but not quite)

Ah, @edgy leaf what do the pipes look like above the floor (floor-hole-to-consumer)?

[edgy leaf]

i do not use the floorholes, they are purely for aesthetics (i dont think it changes anything, but people yell at me when i actually use them so i stopped)

[frosty owl]

I never had issues with floor holes yet 😅

Can you highlight one of the two (?) pipe segments involved from the junction to the Refinery?

(With the dismantle tool)

Just to make sure they are shaped as I'm thinking they are

[ember fractal]

I'm planning to make 4000 rocket fuel / min.
Good idea?

[ashen girder]

Depends, do you really need that much power?

[ember fractal]

Not really, but I could use the fuel in other places, like powering vehicles, drones, and jetpack

[urban kite]

no. make more 😉

[wheat widget]

Feed it into your depot and you'll never run out of jetpack fuel again :D

[urban kite]

im making 10800 / min

[ashen girder]

Until you do because it doesn't feed from the depot. 😦

[ember fractal]

Using some alt recipes, I calculated I can make 4k rocket fuel with just 1200 sulfur, 1800 oil and 1600 nitrogen gas

[wheat widget]

At that point, it's on you for forgetting to grab it lol

[ember fractal]

With mk3 miner and mk6 belts, that's doable

[urban kite]

dont all the chains need coal or am i tripping

[ashen girder]

SFTools says you can do 4k with 1650 oil, 950 sulfur, 1600 nitrogen.

[ember fractal]

turbo blend fuel doesn't need coal, it uses petrol coke

[urban kite]

oh i see

[ashen girder]

And 35.897 iron ore. 🤣

[urban kite]

yeah in that case you need iron right

[ember fractal]

i'm making turbo blend fuel using blenders first to get 2400 turbofuel, and then combining that with nitric acid to make 4k rocket fuel

yes, some iron plates for the nitric acid, nothing crazy

[urban kite]

I went with diluted fuel -> nitro rocket fuel 🙂

i (think?) that uses the least oil, maybe

[ember fractal]

maybe I'll start with half the numbers
I'll do 1200 turbo -> 2k rocket fuel
and will only need 600 sulfur and 900 oil

[ember fractal]

but more sulfur I believe

[urban kite]

im only use 70% of alll sulfur in the world im sure its fine

[ashen girder]

Switched it to Nitro and it says 1000 oil, 1333 coal, 2000 introgen, 2667 sulfur for 4k.

[urban kite]

also remember a full pipe of rocket fuel is like 144 gens

[ember fractal]

right, it uses coal, which I kinda wanna save for diamonds later

[hot junco]

I'm using all default turning 1200 Oil into 3750 Rocket Fuel

[ashen girder]

You can use crude for diamonds too.

[ember fractal]

true

[hot junco]

well 3750 rocket and ~like 500 heavy oil

[ashen girder]

Also that recipe consumes 1333 coal and 2667 sulfur while producing 667 compacted coal. 😂

[hot junco]

In hindsight I wish I didnt cause I hate fuel gens

[ember fractal]

Even when overclocked, you still need to build a ton of them to burn all the fuel

[hot junco]

300 in my setup cause I package the remaining 750 for drones

[ember fractal]

how good is rocket fuel for drones?

[ashen girder]

Better than batteries.

Not as good as IF, UFRs and PFRs.

[hot junco]

iirc its 42m/sec flight time and slightly higher consumption than ionized

ionized is 45m/sec and batteries is like 40ish

[ember fractal]

not bad

[hot junco]

Its by far the most efficient fuel to burn and to use in drones

[ember fractal]

like how many drones can you support with 750 rocket fuel, roughly speaking

[ashen girder]

Depends how far they're going.

[ember fractal]

let's say like 2 to 3km

[hot junco]

I can check a drone port in a sec

Its not much though

[ember fractal]

btw, ionized fuel seems a little underwhelming

[hot junco]

its terrible

[ashen girder]

As a power source, it's garbage.

As a way to sink power shards, and as jetpack and drone fuel, it's invaluable.

[ember fractal]

i see....

[hot junco]

even for drones its kinda trash for the cost

[ember fractal]

never thought I'd see the day we'd be sinking power shards

[ashen girder]

It's a little meme-y. I think it's better to sink Superposition Oscillators for the same results. 😂

[edgy leaf]

what do yall think is the best drone fuel? in the past i never wanted to use them because it felt like a waste to use batteries for them, id much rather use trains

[ember fractal]

I love how they made other fuels useable in drones
I'm gonna be using drones a lot more now

[ashen girder]

PFRs if you've got the stomach for'em. 😁

[hot junco]

I'm torn between batteries and rocket fuel

[ashen girder]

Honestly, I'd skip batteries entirely at this point.

[ember fractal]

I'd say fuel is easiest
Turbo or rocket if you have them available

[ashen girder]

There's just no good reason to use them at this point.

[hot junco]

So about cost: Blue Crater Lake to Rocky desert is 8 rocket fuel per trip

[ember fractal]

Making enough batteries is just too much of a pain at this point, now that you can use alternative fuels

[hot junco]

4820 meters

[ashen girder]

There's literally only one recipe that uses them otherwise.

[ember fractal]

8 for 1 way?

[hot junco]

Ye

[ember fractal]

not too bad

[ashen girder]

Huh. Apparently Super-state is actually super lightweight compared to the other two. 😂

I like how on paper OC Supcom is strictly a downgrade.

This is why you don't compare WP!

[hot junco]

OC is simpler in return

[ashen girder]

You can also build them from the same parts as Turbo Motors.

Turbo Electric and OC Supcom is a delightfully smooth factory.

[tiny geyser]

Whats the uranium ore throughput i can expect a drone port to have? Long term fueling of them expected to be plutonium cells, figuring i might just use them to bring all the ores needed to a singular nuclear facility on the map, tho im not sure on where yet

[hot junco]

The drone port tells you after the drone finishes one route

depends on distance

For reference, a 4.8km distance drone can transport ~2 stacks per minute

which whould be 200 uranium/minute

If you are using rocket fuel that is as it also depends on fuel type used

[tiny geyser]

Whole system is going to be kickstarted with some spare turbofuel cans, but longterm should run on plutonium fuel cells, which i understand has high performance

[ashen girder]

Rods, not cells, just to make sure.

[tiny geyser]

hmm... i think i can encase turn the output of one of the uranium nodes into encaseds, which should make transport way easier

[hot junco]

Plutonium is 50% faster than turbofuel so keep that in mind

[floral brook]

Which Trainsignals do i use if 1 Train is in the Station and another wants to drive in?

[deft lichen]

#1038092680493801533 post a drawing of the whole track layout, or better upload your save to SCIM in #welcome and send a screenshot of that

[floral brook]

Did it

[wintry marlin]

Lots of speed, so it pushes the other one out.

[ashen girder]

I mean.. that does do what he asked for.

[runic igloo]

Okay ya'll basic math isn't mathing for some reason:
A) 2.5 refineries for aluminum scrap has 300/min (120x2.5=300) water OUTput
B) 2 refineries for alumina (5 in total but only 2 in question) solution is 360/min (180x2=360) water INput
So if i combine the water from aluminum scrap and add 60 water to it from a water extractor, that's a total of 360 water to feed my 2 alumina solution refineries.

But the water pipe is filling up causing the scrap refineries to stop and backing up production so the whole process shuts off after a few hours.
I have the 300/min water pipe going into a Fluid Buffer since i need the output as an input and it needs to ramp up some water before it can run 100%
I'm combining the 60 and 300 pipes into a single mk.II pipe first, then splitting it between the two refineries (although I've tried a manafold style setup too) I have the water extractor set at 50% for 60/min water, but also a valve (set at 60) on the 60 and 300 pipe to prevent backflow

make it make sense 😢

[glossy schooner]

... this has to be an insane spot for fuel, right?

oil, sulfur, nitrogen right in the same spot with water

[urban kite]

yeah

[muted crypt]

Try not to mix fresh and recycled water if you can help it

[runic igloo]

@muted crypt why?

[muted crypt]

Because otherwise you may run into the exact problem you're having now, where it clogs up

[runic igloo]

but that would be either bad game design or a bug?

[muted crypt]

It's a consequence of fluids being weird, you can't necessarily think of pipes like belts

@oblique hollow you're better with them than me, can you help explain?

[topaz jetty]

Ya know what that is actually very good for RF

[runic igloo]

having water as an output and water as an input on the same production line by design has to be them telling us that this is what you're supposed to do

[oblique hollow]

Its more about that this is a logical flaw
What happens if your scrap refineries idle for a while? (like when they are full of scrap due to some issue)

[ashen girder]

Think of it more as an introduction to a challenge you have to contiue to deal with.

[oblique hollow]

the main problem with merging fresh and byproduct water is that you can run full of water if your factory stutters for a moment

[ashen girder]

In T9 they take away the simplest way to deal with it altogether. 😂

[oblique hollow]

which isnt hard to see: Water extractor keeps making stuff, but the water isnt being used because the alumina refineries have run full (due to the scrap refinery being full of scrap for example)

[runic igloo]

@oblique hollow that's the whole point of re-using the water, is so nothing every backs up. all the math works out perfectly, but in game, i'm somehow getting more than 360 water. it's being crated from nothing somehow

it owuld be one thing if i didn't have enough water, but some how i have too much

[ashen girder]

The thing using the water is pausing, but things producing water are not, causing it to not consume as much water as you expect.

[runic igloo]

that's why i have a fluid buffer

i gently started it so the fluid buffer was half full, then let it run

[urban kite]

are you sinking the aluminum scrap

[runic igloo]

I'm familiar with the logic of pipes, i've done multiple play throughs to phase 8, built 50kMW turbo fuel factories. 3k rubber/plastic factories etc, roughly 2k hours in the game and i've never seen this issue making aluminum. Wondering if it's a product of dedicated server issues or something 🤔

[ashen girder]

I mean, this is an incredibly common issue that people see all the time. 🤣

Dedicated servers probably make it worse.

[runic igloo]

scrap never backs up, it's being used with silica to make ingots>aluminum casings> radio control units>then sink the leftover

[oblique hollow]

its not being created from nothing.
Ive seen multiple setups and multiple tests have been run
fluid doesnt appear from nowhere

Could you DM me your save with that aluminum setup, if you dont mind?

[runic igloo]

@oblique hollow sure

it's a dedicated server if you wanna hop in

[drifting trench]

packaged or no?

[ember fractal]

Ya

[drifting trench]

each drone from my expierence takes about 2-3 per minute if its constantly running

[ember fractal]

That's my planned spot for a massive rocket fuel factory

[edgy leaf]

mcgalleon, do u think its possible to make a bottom feeding setup thats running at 600m3?

[muted crypt]

assuming any mk2 pipes will properly work at an expected 600 flow rate is a death sentence, from what I've gathered watching this channel lol

[ashen girder]

Honestly, a lil bit. 😂 Better to just use slightly under, or be okay with 598.

[edgy leaf]

these two water extractors have been running for over an hour, feeding the same mk2 pipe. both fully empty themselves before the next cycle

[ashen girder]

Ooh, what'd you do?

[edgy leaf]

sidefeed

[ashen girder]

Oh. 🤣

[edgy leaf]

i told yall before it works just fine when sidefeeding

[ashen girder]

I THOUGHT YOU FIGURED IT OUT.

Sorry. Excitable.

I'm still hoping for a bottom feed answer.

[edgy leaf]

nah, it just sounded like chad doggo sneeze didnt believe mk2 pipes could ever run at 600, which they can

[muted crypt]

most of the pipe issues I see people have here come up when someone's trying to use a mk2 pipe at full throughput, so it was a reasonable assumption at least

[edgy leaf]

ive only had issues with them when bottomfeeding, which infuriates me because i love bottomfeeding!!

[muted crypt]

there's a joke in here somewhere

[hot junco]

I've tinkered around with your save for a bit now and the issue is indeed bottom feeding. The problem is somewhat fixable by reducing the length of the pipe that goes up but after a few hours it will still cause the extractors to fill up and turn off

[edgy leaf]

idk someone once told me that bottomfeeding is also used in a very very nsfw context but i never looked it up lol

[ashen girder]

Does it involve a plecostomus?

[glossy schooner]

I haven't had problems with expecting 600m3 flow rate in my mk2 pipes

[muted crypt]

That's probably for the best lol

[ashen girder]

Did anyone ever try valves? 👀

[edgy leaf]

😭

[glossy schooner]

Valves are bait

[edgy leaf]

u can try valves if u want, i can send u the save

[muted crypt]

I cannot react with my spray bottle emoji here

[glossy schooner]

I think

[ashen girder]

I was just gonna build it in my own save. 😂

[edgy leaf]

im not touching this abominatoin again until someone found a solution. sidefeeding it is until then

[oblique hollow]

Oh lord bottom feeding
Remember your diluted fuel plant?

[edgy leaf]

yea, i switched to side feeding again. ill stop trying to make bottom feeding work unless someone here finds a solution

[ashen girder]

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. 👀

[oblique hollow]

That factory convinced me to run some bottom feeding tests

[ashen girder]

Did you figure it out?

[edgy leaf]

yes, thats why i gave up on bottomfeeding in this save. until cobalt said u can make it work if u just keep it simple, now ive spent a few hourst trying to get bottomfeeding to work again

(i didnt get it to work again)

[hot junco]

Well the solution is coming up with a system in which the lines going up cannot interact with each other. Pumps might help but I dont think its a backflow issue

[oblique hollow]

and the result: use mk 2 pumps wherever possible.
There is some kind of friction that really kills flow after a while if you dont use pumps

but only in bottom feeding

[edgy leaf]

i love how even to the pipemaster genius himself pipes are magic

[muted crypt]

not even 100% sure I understand what you mean by side feed and bottom feed in these contexts, like is it just extremely literal in meaning or what

[oblique hollow]

and the height of the pipes affects stability

[ashen girder]

Sounds like gravity. 😂

[ashen girder]

Yes. It means the pipe coming out of the machine's input bends downwards, stays horizontal, or bends upwards.

[edgy leaf]

we all agree that htat shouldnt help, right?

[oblique hollow]

its like some compound of gravity and friction

[oblique hollow]

I mean.... Nothing says that there might not be some hidden friction.......

[hot junco]

Its not the solution to this problem

[sacred epoch]

How to do division when pressing N?

[muted crypt]

I see

/

[ashen girder]

We haven't seen it otherwise have we? We assumed there was when pipes were first introduced, and there wasn't any horizontal friction I thought.

[edgy leaf]

eh, i remember back in u7 adding pumps fixed some thngs

[ashen girder]

Unless it's just that miniscule.

[hot junco]

Do water towers still work?

[oblique hollow]

horizontal friction is indeed basically null
But verticality was always a bit.... different

Yes they do

just not the one with the funny valve set to 0 flow

[ashen girder]

Fair enough.

[hot junco]

Maybe a water tower fixes this

Like I know what the problem is but idk how to fix it xd

[sacred epoch]

How to translate my result into the % input? Like 120 limestone divided by 3 is 40 but what % speed? How do I calculate that?

[ashen girder]

Type "40/120" in the percentage field.

[muted crypt]

you can plug calculations into the clock speed field

100*40/120

[sacred epoch]

lol that gave me 1% =\

[wind spade]

[want] / [makes at 100%] * 100 = [target clock speed]

[hot junco]

You have to add *100

[ashen girder]

Oh, do you? That's goofy.

[edgy leaf]

im trying something right now and if it works i will declare u a watch mcgalleon

[ashen girder]

Type 40 in the PPM field. 🤣

[safe heron]

What does that mean?

[oblique hollow]

If i try to articulate it as best and as simple as i can....
Pipes transmit headlift if full
Pipes try to rise to the same height in parallel to each other
fluctuations in fluid levels would cause head lift to die down
..... small enough head lift is then interrupted by many junctions and parallel vertical pipes, one after another

pumps reset headlift from their position

soooo when there is a flucuation, it doesnt cause a cascading effect down the line

[muted crypt]

solution: only pumps

[hot junco]

My adhd brain is terrible at articulating my thoughts.. but its kinda what I came down to as well

Thats why the problem got better when I shortened the verticle pipes but it wouldnt fully fix it

[oblique hollow]

yeah short vertical pipes means you dont take up as much of the "head lift budget"

meaning you have a lot of "excess" left

[edgy leaf]

flooding the system right now, maybe im imagining it but it feels like it has better flow..

[oblique hollow]

also on that note:
the smaller a pipe is in general, the less fluid it can store
pipes need to be able to store enough fluid to sustain pressure

so my though..... looong pipes should behave better in bottom feeding... but only the flat pipes

vertical pipes should be very short

[hot junco]

Satisfactory 1.1: Pipes are now simple in and output, there are no longer fluid dynamics.

[ashen girder]

That's T9 in a nutshell inn't.

[oblique hollow]

Factorio 2.0 moment

[muted crypt]

Welcome back pre-update 3

[edgy leaf]

yea i think it works...

[oblique hollow]

honestly i wouldnt mind if they simplify the system a bit

more "instant response" and such

[edgy leaf]

i feel like this should be considered a bug. like, yes, its doing what its programmed to do, but thats how all bugs work! all programs always do what they're programmed to do in that situation.

i find it rather strange that they say it doing what its programmed to do means its not a bug

[ashen girder]

I think that's slightly reductive.

[edgy leaf]

nvm it doesnt

[ashen girder]

I assume it to mean "this is a challenge we want players to solve".

[oblique hollow]

i mean they kinda arrived at a similar sentiment for the "mk 2 bug"
it works as designed..... but the design is flawed

It is an interesting design, but not necessarily good game design

[hot junco]

Honestly dont think there is a way to fix manifold bottomfeeding

[ashen girder]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if valves work. 😁

They probably won't.

(I understand that they probably won't.)

[hot junco]

I cba mathing out what you even need to set the valve to

[ashen girder]

100%.

[wind spade]

probably not a good time to do it. Maybe a year earlier

[hot junco]

feel like 1.0 would be a good time for it with so many new people joining

[oblique hollow]

Factorio did it. And that a whoooole lot of time after 1.0

[toxic dove]

quick question:
do i need a pump if i only lift the fluid with this height ?

[muted crypt]

But that's because they weren't intending to be done

[hot junco]

no

[urban kite]

what kind of fuel is it

[wind spade]

they did it for 2.0

not a month after 1.0 🙂

[hot junco]

Thats like 2 meters?

[toxic dove]

turbofuel

[edgy leaf]

this hre works

[urban kite]

ah okay. If it was rocket you wouldnt have to worry

[hot junco]

Ah hell nah

[edgy leaf]

you see those three pomps that should be totally pointless? without them it odesnt work, with them it works

both extractors have been totally emptied between cycles for a few minutes now...

[muted crypt]

a pump after each junction oh boy

[urban kite]

what happens if you unpower the pumps that seem redundant

[edgy leaf]

they would reset headlift and it wouldnt reach the machine

[ashen girder]

Replace them with valves?

[edgy leaf]

ill leave it running a bit like this to see if it acutally actually works and then ill replace htem with valves