math-and-meta

[grim musk]

no because you need DM crystals still

more of them than the base recipe

[ashen girder]

I didn't say you skip all of the accelerators.

[grim musk]

you have to place down more accelerators tho

[cloud comet]

Does it make sense to make 32 foundries to handle 1600 steel ingot production instead of 30?

I only have mk4 conveyors

[ashen girder]

You need less Time Crystals.

[torn plaza]

that's a lot of steel so early on

[cloud comet]

Idk I just have lots of iron and coal

[grim musk]

but you need more than 3x DM crystals

[cloud comet]

So I thought I would

[grim musk]

aka more time crystals/diamonds

[noble timber]

Yeah 1600 steel is fine

[ashen girder]

You don't actually have to use either of those to make DMCs.

[noble timber]

If using 32 makes it easier than using 30 then go for it

[cloud comet]

But then I would need 4 floors instead of 3

[torn plaza]

DMC can be made with just dark matter residue

[grim musk]

so you wanna use multiple pure nodes of SAM? lol

[noble timber]

So then use 30

[ashen girder]

You can literally make as much dark matter residue as your heart desires, what?

[grim musk]

you mean excited photonic?

[ashen girder]

No, I mean dark matter residue.

[torn plaza]

it's a by-product from pretty much everything

[ashen girder]

Not pretty much: literally every recipe in the encoder produces it.

[noble timber]

Excited photonic isn't used for DMC

[arctic vine]

MOMENT OF TRUTH

YEAAAAAAAAAAA

[torn plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/all-aboard-train-choo-choo-express-locomotive-gif-20501901

[grim musk]

yes because I'm going to automate elevator parts for power production??

that just makes it 10x more expensive than before

[ashen girder]

Why the fuck are you using IF for power production?

[torn plaza]

you will be trying to figure out "what the fuck will I do with all this dark matter residue"

[ashen girder]

IF sucks for power. 🤣

[polar schooner]

just go RF and make it a wrap

[torn plaza]

rocket fuel for power, ionised fuel for rockets

[grim musk]

well that's what I am asking, why even have the recipes be like thay and all that, I wanted to try them out, but seems counterproductive in every way

if you used so little IF then skipping the encoders is useless too

[ashen girder]

It's not just skipping the encoders. 🤣

[grim musk]

just crystallize it lmao

[torn plaza]

and now you have dark matter crystals, which you were short of

[topaz jetty]

Yeah now that is fun you don’t use the actual ‘rocket fuel’ for rockets

[torn plaza]

irony

[grim musk]

not short of them

I"m way past phase 5 now

just exploring all the alts

[arctic vine]

blueprints my beloved

[ashen girder]

You can, it's the highest acceleration in the game.

[grim musk]

IF is so nice tho, it lasts for ever and ever and gets you insanely high, even if not super fast

have not tested them on drones yet tho, speaking of, how are the fuels in drones?

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's the tradeoff. RF is faster but less burntime. IF is slower but better burntime.

[grim musk]

I forgot all about drones this playthrough

[ashen girder]

Both are better than batteries, but not as good as UFRs/PFRs.

[grim musk]

plutdronium

[polar schooner]

#math-and-meta message

[ashen girder]

Wastefree!

[grim musk]

wait radioactive fuels also give speed buffs?

[topaz jetty]

I would say the batteries are still better fuels for drones no packaging and no spicy radiation

[ashen girder]

"better" here meaning "provides better numbers in every conceivable way, with downsides".

[topaz jetty]

Let’s say ‘easier’

[grim musk]

damn 14% is uuh, less than I expected tbh

[trail turret]

when i am going into trains is it similar to factorio with the signalling and stuff? or should i throw all my knowledge over board

[grim musk]

idk if I would bother setting up all this just for drones, mass batteries sounds a lot easier still

[ashen girder]

Anyway, seriously, do the math on them. Baseline it's 2xDMC and 2xTC per 16 IF. Dark-Ion is 6.4xDMC per 16 IF. If you use Dark Matter Crystallization, that goes from 2xTC per 16 to 0xTC per 16. Not to mention removing the encoder which is more power than an accelerator.

[torn plaza]

consider; you make a UFR setup, and you process PFRs to get sunk. why not divert it for drone use and save on making a battery line?

[sonic elk]

Drones don't need batteries now at all right

Can you coal power them?

[torn plaza]

you can use any fuel

[grim musk]

do they not produce Pwaste?

[ashen girder]

They need fuel. Not coal.

[ashen girder]

They do not, no. Vehicles don't produce waste.

[sonic elk]

Waste is only made in reactors

[topaz jetty]

Probably but it won’t be very good

[torn plaza]

like FICSIT, vehicles do not waste

[pallid pond]

Using linear optimization techniques to make a base scheme where every base consumes local resources the most optimal ways and trades with neighbour bases (The goal is the maximum sink points)
This image is generated by the tool (But I'm still tweaking the model)

[grim musk]

that's good to know, never tried it out

[torn plaza]

this is very relevant to my interests

[grim musk]

currently have a plant producing 240/min of uranium waste, gotta get to sinking it some day

[torn plaza]

yeah, and once you make PFRs, why not use some for drones?

[grim musk]

was thinking of making ficsonium just for the hell of it rather than drones

[torn plaza]

admittedly any drone port i use those with will have to be highly elevated

[grim musk]

lmao yeah

[torn plaza]

this way leads to madness

[sonic elk]

Interesting, how are the locations for bases selected?

[grim musk]

I am burning 600/min ionized fuel as we speak for the hell of it, I think I am beyond madness

[torn plaza]

may god have mercy on your soul

[pallid pond]

Locations are selected manually, basically all lakes and on the shore, because for the most efficient processing of almost every ore you need lots of water

[livid meteor]

Can someone explain this to me? I don'T understand why I have the "used in" recipes but none of the recipes that produce it

[grim musk]

dw I could make a LOT more just rocket fuel because this used like none of the oil or sulfer or nitrogen

[ashen girder]

Because you have the alts but not the Milestone.

[grim musk]

because those are alts or MAM unlockables

[ashen girder]

You don't get Nitric Acid until T8 unfortunately.

Those shouldn't really be unlockable before then IMO.

[torn plaza]

you may not have nitrogen gas unlocked

[livid meteor]

I thought I have

[torn plaza]

or regular nitric acid

[grim musk]

MAM recipe should include some packaged nitric acid I guess?

[oblique hollow]

If you haven unlocked uranium processing or stuff, you wont unlock nitric acid

[ashen girder]

It's not nitrogen gas that unlocks it.

[livid meteor]

that's it. I did aluminium before uranium

[torn plaza]

yeah i forgot which one did, encountered that same problem when i wanted to make my heat fused frame line

[grim musk]

you need to xD

[oblique hollow]

Well aluminum is a requirement for uranium

[grim musk]

"need" if you don't have drop pod sheets etc

[ashen girder]

Yeah, Nitrogen Gas is from Advanced Aluminum Production. Nitric Acid is from Particle Enrichment.

[oblique hollow]

so thats not wrong

[livid meteor]

why. I assumed the order of unlocking wouldn't matter, since it's the same tier 😦

[ashen girder]

All the tiers go from left to right in terms of dependencies.

[oblique hollow]

Speifically, you unlock Nitric Acid in Tier 8 Particle Enrichment

So way after Nuclear Power

[grim musk]

well every tier has this, you can unlock steel, and then get MK3 logistics since it costs steel yaknow?

so maybe it should cost nitric acid instead of cans?

[ashen girder]

Packaged Oil comes after Oil.

[oblique hollow]

Every Tier roughly has an order to it, but none of the unlocks must be done in order

[ashen girder]

Yeah, but if you don't, you're liable to not be able to use everything you unlock. 😉

[grim musk]

as someone who spent like equal parts exploring and equal parts factorying in the first 30 hours of the save, I agree a lot

[barren orbit]

@ionic geyser

[remote ice]

also because you get late-game materials from crash sites and especially lizard doggos, you can often unlock stuff immediately without actually crafting it first

[livid meteor]

would make sense ngl

[cloud comet]

How do you get stuff from lizard doggos? They drop nothing when I kill them

[grim musk]

I decided NOT to overclock the encoders though because that would make the power plant CONSUME power more

[remote ice]

[remote ice]

you tame them

[cloud comet]

How do you tame them?

[remote ice]

you have to drop a berry on the ground and let them eat it

[livid meteor]

reee I shouldn't be in here. Spoilering myself

[livid meteor]

Actually no. Look what I found:

[sonic elk]

This recipe is goated

[livid meteor]

I don't know

I think about picking the cooling device alternate tho

[oblique hollow]

cooling device is decent, can confirm

[sonic elk]

cooling device is good as well yeah

depends what you need sooner cause both recipes are must gets

[livid meteor]

I know I won't be able to produce nitro rocket fuel anyway cuz I don't have the resources at the same spot

I would somehow need to get fuel, the gas, sulfur and coal

[oblique hollow]

device uses same amount of aluminum, but trades rubber and water for motors, which are just iron, coal and copper (or even more ideally, JUST iron )

[tame harbor]

imho not worth it

you save a bit of oil and coal for a lot mroe coal Sulfur and nitrogen input

[livid meteor]

I guess that's good. I still have a lot of rubber tho. I'm not sure what to use it for so I never actually spend it

[sonic elk]

this recipe is amazing, 36MW of power if you burn it all

[oblique hollow]

then use default tbh

[livid meteor]

But isn't coal like everywhere?

I don't see the issue. I just don't have a setup

[tame harbor]

meant "more sulfur"

you save coal

[oblique hollow]

Regarding Nitro Fuel: recycling the compacted coal into Turbo does not seem worth it

[bleak veldt]

I’m doing the 1:1 sloppy alumina to scrap. You only put a cable on the input water pipe if you recycle right? From what I understand a valve on the feedback side won’t work since the pipes will never technically fill all the way up right?

[silver aurora]

ok so i have 8 smelters runing on a 270 belt from miner is it common pratice to use more than that to make sure your smelting smelting as fast as the belt is pulling.

[livid meteor]

Nitric acid is more of an issue for me than the other stuff

[bleak veldt]

Just sink it tbh

[oblique hollow]

Nah, coal gens

50/min compacted feeds 7 coal gens

so its additional power

[bleak veldt]

Ohh nice extra power

[livid meteor]

But coal gens seem like so low power

I dunno

[sonic elk]

i just sunk the byproduct compact coal yeah

[oblique hollow]

that 600 compacted makes 6300 MW in 84 coal gens

[livid meteor]

Wait, why not make turbo fuel from it?

Turbo fuel makes way more power

[oblique hollow]

additional hastle and less fuel efficient

[sonic elk]

effort

[bleak veldt]

And? Do you not attach geysers?

[livid meteor]

Actually no, lol. Completly forgot about them

I unlocked them but forgot them

[oblique hollow]

you can overclock the coal gens so they are more useful / competetive

[bleak veldt]

I only attach them when I happen to be near them

[livid meteor]

My turbo fuel gens make me 2-3 times my comsumption anyway

[oblique hollow]

making turbo means you trade coal generator space for even more fuel generator space

which doesnt seem very fun

[livid meteor]

I have 35GW and use 7GW with max consumption of 16GW

[bleak veldt]

Yes

[livid meteor]

I don't have an issue with space tbh

[oblique hollow]

its 84 coal gens vs 100 fuel gens if you use normal turbo to recycle that compacted

[livid meteor]

I also build vertially to some degree

[silver aurora]

how many more would you recommend like doing 2 or 3 extra?

space is not really an issue just wana get the most out of it

[oblique hollow]

i never use more, using exactly as much as the belt can handle is fine

you arent gettting ingots out faster for using more smelters as you then just spend more time filling smelters

and then a part of them dont even run all the time

[bleak veldt]

I never do more than what the belt handles

[livid meteor]

looks like this

[sonic elk]

What are you smelting?

[olive orchid]

how much turbo fuel is consumed in a generator??

[sonic elk]

And how much are you mining I guess

[silver aurora]

i mean right now all mine are smelters are full and my belt is runing slower than 270 per minute I think its because i have 8 instead of the 9 that i should have but wanted to make sure before i fix it

[bleak veldt]

7.5/s

[oblique hollow]

yeah you need 9 for 270

[silver aurora]

just doing iron atm basicly coming back with the 1.0 update to start a fresh build

[livid meteor]

Max OC is 18.75m³

[sonic elk]

Sure

[ashen girder]

You can overclock the fuel gens too though..

[oblique hollow]

then its 40 fuel gens vs 33.6 coal gens

[sonic elk]

Here's how many smelters per node if you have a mk1 miner:

impure: 1
normal: 2
pure: 4 (this will need a mk2 belt)

If you have a mk2 miner:

impure: 2
normal: 4 (this will need a mk2 belt)
pure: 8 (this will need a mk 3 belt)

[bleak veldt]

@olive orchid I meant /min not /s btw

[sonic elk]

Same for copper
The next metal that uses the smelter will be a bit different tho

[ashen girder]

6300 vs 25000?

[livid meteor]

ngl at this point all recipes seem super complicated and I don't know if I gain any benefit from them

I guess the infused cell is nice

[oblique hollow]

again, the focus was on effort
I will not go into the efficiency of it all again

[ashen girder]

I mean, I'm just pointing out that shards do nothing to make coal gens more competitive.

[oblique hollow]

It was an attempt, ok?

[ashen girder]

Fine! Be that way! God!

[bleak veldt]

Just slap shards in them anyway, shards are basically free

[livid meteor]

I mostly stopped to be resource efficient lol. Unless I need to because there's no other vein in my area

[sonic elk]

Super State Computer is terrible. It is the only thing you need batteries for now, which means you never will make batteries, which means you will never benefit.

That uranium recipe saves about 35% o the uranium

[ashen girder]

IIRC with the cells you're trading uranium cost with other resources and complexity. If you want to extract more juice out of your uranium nodes it can do that.

[bleak veldt]

Loop+you can make them yourself later

[silver aurora]

also i noticed that if you put belt down then add the spliters onto the belt it doesnt always work properly is that supposed to happen?

[ashen girder]

Batteries are still better drone fuel than any pre-1.0 fuel.

[livid meteor]

uuuh I would make batteries for drones tho

[sonic elk]

drone scan use other fuels too

[oblique hollow]

that usually fails if you put the splitter near a belt support

never put stuff near belt joints

[sonic elk]

so much better it's worth setting up a battery plant? Surely not

With how cheap rocket fuel is

[silver aurora]

what if you remove the support?

[ashen girder]

Well.. yes? Rocket fuel being distinctly not a pre-1.0 fuel. 😂

[sonic elk]

The container the rocket fuel goes in is more expensive than the fuel itself haha

[oblique hollow]

still not advised to put splitters there

it doesnt work out well with how they re-do belts

[sonic elk]

Yeah but you're still gonna get rocket fuel before you get batteries in all likelihood

[livid meteor]

I mean super state computer doesn't seem bad to me

[sonic elk]

They've made batteries totally useless and i dont mind it one bit lol

[livid meteor]

Just because I have to produce batteries is not an argument tbh

[sonic elk]

But anyway that makes the supercomputer recipe pointless

[ashen girder]

Rocket fuel is literally only available after the final milestone of Tier 8..

[bleak veldt]

I’m gonna post my question again: I’m doing the 1:1 sloppy alumina to scrap. You only put a valve on the input water pipe if you recycle right? From what I understand a valve on the feedback side won’t work since the pipes will never technically fill all the way up right?

[silver aurora]

thanks was seeing some weird stuff where the belt was rolling back into itself

[livid meteor]

If the use of batteries is to make a good alt recipes for the computers it's not a bad recipe

[sonic elk]

Yeah, but batteries are not needed for anything, so unless you're super insistent about using drones optimally for a short period of time, there's zero reason to ever have a single battery on your planet

[oblique hollow]

super state means less computers and other electronics / oil parts, tradeoff is batteries

[livid meteor]

well their use would be for super computers

[sonic elk]

This is the real use case yeah

[livid meteor]

So they have a use

[oblique hollow]

and since batteries are now basically optional, why not use them for super state

[livid meteor]

seems worth to me tbh. I mean the alt recipe materials are rather easy to get

[oblique hollow]

batteries are now only used as vehicle fuel

super state is the only recipe to use batteries

[sonic elk]

I think they made a balancing mistake taking batteries out of the space elevator chain tbh

It feels very silly that batteries are this useless, cause it feels like they shouldnt be

[ashen girder]

Heh, super state takes half the power of the other two.

[next pewter]

Valve is almost never the solution. At any partial load or instability (like game load), it fails

[sonic elk]

If they had a reason I'd happily make a battery factory lol

[next pewter]

Either split the flows, or use priority junction.

[livid meteor]

They ain't useless if they used in a good recipe

[oblique hollow]

introduce a Magnetic Fiel Gen alt that uses batteries again

[livid meteor]

Or make super batteries

To compete with other fuels

or make batteries boost the hoverpack speed

[sonic elk]

Oh boy

[next pewter]

Just build em. batt factories are fun.

[livid meteor]

or let me use hoverpack for batteries outside of energy sources

[sonic elk]

If batteries improved the hoverpack the entire map would be turned into batteries

[next pewter]

Doesnt need to be functioaal

[sonic elk]

by myself

[ashen girder]

Lessee..
Superstate is 210 Bauxite, 153 Cat, 211 Copper, 193 Crude, 298 Iron, 150 Sulfur, 1337 water.
OC is 560 Cat, 560 Copper, 288 Crude, 180 Iron, 1992 water.

[oblique hollow]

Batteries for wireless hoverpack

[sonic elk]

What a perfect idea

[livid meteor]

I use hoverpack for building and jetpack for exploring since hoverpack is way slower for me

[sonic elk]

I hope the rate is kinda reasonable though

[ashen girder]

So a third of the caterium, half the copper, 2/3 the crude for double the iron, 150 sulfur, and 210 bauxite.

[bleak veldt]

So should I not use feedback water?

[oblique hollow]

Tradeoff: It burns batteries at 1 every 3 seconds

[ashen girder]

That's for 10/min according to SFTools.

[sonic elk]

There are some late game consumables that burn WAYYYY too quickly ||sing cells, power matrix. matrix is kinda ok but cells burn way too fast in their building.||

[livid meteor]

meh, it would just clogg your inventory

[oblique hollow]

so a stack of batteries would only last 10 minutes

[oblique hollow]

depot

[sonic elk]

10 mins per stack is not unreasonable as long as it only burns when youre not on the power grid

[oblique hollow]

10 minutes of zooming about, after which you drag in another stack

[bleak veldt]

lol “inventory”

[livid meteor]

Still bad game design. I would rather prefer to use a lot of batteries for a hoverpack battery or something that lasts longer

So you still sink the resources but don't have to carry 10 slots of batteries

[sonic elk]

Cause usually the first thing i do once im off a power grid is frantically scramble to place another pole and extend the grid. The grid must grow.

[next pewter]

Well, either split the feedback so it goes in separate machines that are loaded first w bauxite, then after a hickup it auto balances again.

Or useca priority junction, that also empties one supply line first, if you really want to mix. There are other ways but not as reliable, these two always work.

[oblique hollow]

the solution is usually

1. burn it off elsewhere (wet concrete, coal gen, etc)
   or
2. feed the water to alumina refineries that ONLY get this byproduct water. The other alumina refineries get ONLY fresh water, no mixed pipes

[livid meteor]

Damn, I'm running out of HDD

[bleak veldt]

Thanks!

[ashen girder]

Wait until you get to the one recipe left bug. 😭

[livid meteor]

Already there since T3

My bugged recipe was biocoal

but sometimes I can scan again

[ashen girder]

Yeah, it let me grab the last one after a reload.

[edgy leaf]

wtf

going into the screen where u load saves affects how hypertubes work

i think

[silver aurora]

is there a way to do power box that is mounted to the floor

instead of having poles or runing power under the floor

would love to do the wall mount on the floor but it don work lol

[cloud comet]

You could have a 2nd floor above and mount on the ceiling

And for the 2nd floor you could put the nodes on the walls of the 2nd floor's foundation

At least that's what I just did

[silver aurora]

yeah was thinking that and just layer the whole ceiling with the wall ones just gotta make sure my ceiling is high enough that nothing pokes out lol

[cloud comet]

Doesn't look that bad imo

[edgy leaf]

it does work

you just need to use a beam

[cloud comet]

Why does it not work on foundations smh

[silver aurora]

ah so its really mounting to the beam

assuming you meshed them inside each other?

@edgy leaf

[cloud comet]

So now, the question is that what do I do with 1600 steel per minute at phase 2?

[oblique hollow]

you should have figured out the other way around

[edgy leaf]

i deleted the beam

[cloud comet]

True

[silver aurora]

aaah i see put beem down delete the beam then put foundation

[oblique hollow]

Making a bunch of raw material and then asking "what do i do with this" is a subpar move

[cloud comet]

It was fun to build and looks very satisfying though
Or rather, satisfactory

[oblique hollow]

work out elevator parts and encased beams and whatnot

maybe some motors

and then determine how much steel those need

[silver aurora]

yeah i think atm I only need steal for beams since i have the iron version recip

[cloud comet]

I already have 60 steel beams per minute that also feeds into encased beams

Which is more than enough even though I spam mk4s everywhere

[silver aurora]

can always sink some lol

[cloud comet]

I guess I'll do just that

[silver aurora]

when you can afford it you could prob turn them into something else with that purple stuff i forgot what it is

[cloud comet]

Sam?

Or quartz

[silver aurora]

yeah think you can convert them to something with sam but i dont remmber

[cloud comet]

I guess I'll make 1 line into steel beams, 1 into steel pipes and sink the rest

[silver aurora]

yeah worst case later on you be like ooh hey i need some of that then you have it built already

just remove any overclock you have runing for it

[cloud comet]

I only overclocked the miners

So I only used up 1 pure iron mine and 2 pure coal mines

Which is nothing tbh

Oh, perhaps I can use the 2 other lines to make iron rods and plates after unlocking the recipes

But then I still have 1.2k iron/minute left over

That is already being transported to my main factory

What should I do with that much

Does this ever stop?

[edgy leaf]

no

[cloud comet]

Or is it going to continue every 2 hours

Oh, ok then

[ashen girder]

You can turn it off in the settings.

[ripe dawn]

really, *something * should have made this stop by now.

[cloud comet]

The factory must grow

[ripe dawn]

So, I struggle with fuel gen math.
Does the result of 6x generator power output upgrading from turbo to rocket fuel sound right? Edit: NO! the answer is 3X. Maths below is confirmed.

Detailed working out:
so If I rock up to the fuel generators with [100m3 per min] of turbofuel: I can feed [100 m3 per min] / [7.5 m3 turbo burn rate ] = 13.3 Gens ( @ 100% clock) = 3,325Mw

alternatively, I can combo that 100m3 turbofuel with 16.667m3 nitric acid / min which will make 166.7m3/min rocket fuel.
If I rock up to the fuel generators with [166m3 per min of rocketfuel]: [166.7m3 per min] / [4.167m3 rocket burn rate] = 40.0 Fuel gens (@100% clock) = 10,000Mw
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Rocket_Fuel
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Fuel-Powered_Generator

[torn plaza]

FICSIT wants all employees as healthy as possible so that they may continue their work.

https://tenor.com/view/fixing-something-star-wars-andor-repairing-things-tinkering-star-wars-gif-27033888

[cloud comet]

I'm just kidding, had quite a lot of afk sessions within those 10 hours

[ashen girder]

1 gen is 250MW.

[ancient oriole]

Power Matrix burn at 5 p/min and its possible to make 50 p/min, which means a +300% boost to power.

[noble timber]

13.3 gens is 3325 MW btw
40 is 10000 MW

Other than that your maths is correct

[ripe dawn]

That's so worth it for just a bit of nitrogen and water xD

[noble timber]

It does take away available nitrogen (and sulphur) for nuclear but, yeah, it is pretty good

[ripe dawn]

oh interesting. I figured I'd skip nuclear until I have the T9 ficsonium "radioactivity sink" available. This might make life difficult later when switching.

[noble timber]

Not necessarily. You just need to consider the extra time you will put into turning your fuel into turbo then rocket fuel and if that time is worth it for the power you will get as opposed to what you can get from regular fuel.

[fierce ruin]

AAAA

[ashen girder]

I didn't think sulfur or nitrogen were really limiters for nuclear.

[fierce ruin]

is there an easy way to get rid of them

idrc about whats in em

[cloud comet]

You could edit your save file using something like the calculator website

And remove them

[fierce ruin]

how

[cloud comet]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

Put your save file in it and edit it

[noble timber]

Perhaps sulfur isn't now that mk 3 miners can be fully utilised, I haven't done the maths on it.

And since batteries are now obsolete you don't need to worry about using sulfur for them

[scarlet jay]

Hey, I have a question what is the most efficient way to turn HOR into power? The best I can do is turbofuel for fuel gens, but with maxed sulfur is it better to get rest into pcoke, and send it to coal burners or blend with water for diluted fuel?

[proven sphinx]

I need some help :

I have 600 Heavy Oil Residue
I have 600 Rubber

i want to use all of this to make plastic
how much diluted fuel do i need to use together with Residual Fuel
to be able to use all rubber and all heavy oil residue and end up with plastic with no byproduct ?

[fierce ruin]

ty

[noble timber]

HOR into diluted fuel and then if you want, turn that fuel into turbo/rocket

[north wren]

6 units of turbo fuel become 10 units of rocket fuel
each unit of turbo fuel has 2000 Mj of energy
each unit of Rocket fuel has 3600 Mj of energy
6x2000 = 12000 Mj of turbo fuel becomes 3600x10 = 36000 Mj of rocket fuel
so you get 3 times as much energy which means you need 3 times as many generators.

oh right i forgot the compacted coal you get from making the damn fuel

[ashen girder]

Looplooploop

RF is definitely the best fuel for generators.

[noble timber]

From 100 turbo into rocket fuel you get enough com. coal to make about 84 mw i think

forgot the number 😂

[true junco]

All this talk about fuels just brings me right back around to wishing better fuels would produce more power per generator instead of leading to more generators. 😆

[scarlet jay]

I am maxed on sulfur and rocket needs turbo fuel, right? So untill I get nitrogen then I stay at turbo and then is it better to stay at turbo blend fuel alt or go for nitro rocket blend alt (my limiting factor is sulfur)

[true junco]

There is an alt for rocket fuel that skips turbofuel.

[ripe dawn]

the linear power shard on generators was a god tier fix for this game :)

[cloud comet]

How do I tame lizard doggos?

I drop paleberry right in front of it

And it just keeps running

[noble timber]

At first glance it seems to use more fuel to make the same amount of rocket fuel or am I tripping

[scarlet jay]

Yea but I am using all my sulfur for turbo fuel and would need to move my sulfur to that alt recipe, it uses the same amount of sulfur I think 🤔

[ripe dawn]

if it's already running you've scared it and its too late. You need to drop and stand still before it exits is trepidatious backing off animation

[cloud comet]

Nvm I figured it out
Yeah, it was just running away

[true junco]

Agreed. In my last save before 1.0 i max overclocked every single fuel gen. Still ended up with well over 100 gens and i wasnt even close to done. Then 1.0 announcement killed my motivation to continue until release. 😆

[ripe dawn]

the fuel gen to fuel ratio just looked dumb previous as well. "1 iddy biddy pipe feeds this entire skyscraper of 95 generators"

[true junco]

Well. Its like that with the post turbo fuels too isnt it?

[ripe dawn]

little bit, but at least it's only 40% like it xD

[true junco]

Lol. A mk2 pipeline of Ionized fuel can feed 200 generators at 100%

Lmfao. No thanks. Im firmly remaining in the pro-nuclear camp.

[oblique hollow]

200 gens vs 20 nukes

i think the entire footprint of the fuel rod production plus some nukes is smaller than the ionized fuel production

[north wren]

doesn't help that Ionized fuel is bad

[river night]

the complexity of ionized fuel doesnt seem to make it worth it for fuel gens

its burn value is too low for that

just burn the rocket fuel

[cinder silo]

Rocket fuel looks attractive, that it's a gas is a huge bonus.

[river night]

indeed rocket might be worth it

[ripe dawn]

so comparing ionized to rocket, it's just a 40% energy output boost, but for this you have to maintain the entire T9 production loop to get power shards. Yeah, on the face of it that doesn't sound worth it.

[river night]

its a simple recipe as well if you use nitro rocket fuel

fuel and a blender? why not

[ripe dawn]

yep, sold on rocket fuel. Now I just want rocket.

[sturdy gull]

I'm stupid, how do you make multiplication on quick search again?

[ripe dawn]

just type the maths expression into the quick search- default N key to bring this up

[sturdy gull]

Oh asterisk

[ripe dawn]

don't put an equals :)

[sturdy gull]

I'm gonna cry cuz it's like the simplest thing

[cinder silo]

Rocket fuel will allow me to build a power station in tower form, which will be much more sane than my previous monster that was 1.1km by 1km and on 2 floors, I definitely don't want to build another one of those haha.

[wanton sorrel]

Don’t worry we’ve all been there

[ripe dawn]

Oh, it's a gas aswell !?!?! Rocket fuel is just bananas good

[urban kite]

im building a rocket fuel plant and i just did the math on the actuall production and apparently i need over 2k fuel gens to use it all.... whoops?

[torn plaza]

i had to do some pretty heinous things to the video to compress it enough, but this is my perfectly functional train junction

[ripe dawn]

ngl, I was pretty excited to see whether train 3 or train 4 would beat the other to the junction. Gripping stuff. Good job on the build xD

[true junco]

Well. I was going to do all that anyways. But my only plan for Ionized fuel is for the Jet pack.

[indigo bloom]

how many HMF is too much

[ripe dawn]

If you are "power grid-critical confident" you can matain continuous production in T9 then I'd say go for it. My aluminium setup turns off every 3 hours for reasons of unknown demons, so I'm only at the level of "just confident enough that I can keep turbofuel alive for critical production"; ( nuclear is a late game fun experiment to "make graph big.") So no, I know I will not be bothering with power shard production for fuel, keeping that pet 100% alive is beyond my skills.

[wind spade]

@haughty sigil see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[north wren]

it depends
if you're just trying to finish project assembly i'd say 14 per minute is enough

[silent patrol]

does manifold work for pipes? or is there something else i should be doing

[torn plaza]

manifold does work for pipes

[silent patrol]

same premice?

[north wren]

yeah

but due to the way liquids work in this game you shouldn't try max throughput with the pipes

[torn plaza]

if a pipe can take 600, i try not to push any more than 500 through it

[oblique hollow]

yes, but now the manifold can go 2 ways

[silent patrol]

im confused now

[oblique hollow]

and you can input from any side

belt manifold usually only has one input, right?
pipes have no direction, so you can pick any junction as an input

[torn plaza]

water will go where it pleases

[silent patrol]

i have 3 oil nodes at 600,600 and 300 respectively how would i work logistics and how many refiners i need for fuel power?

[cloud comet]

I had 600 300 300, did 2 floors of 10 refineries which gave me enough fuel for 16 fully overclocked gens

You could increase that amount by 25%

[silent patrol]

meaning 3 floors of 5?

im not the best at maths

[cloud comet]

2 floors of 13 is probably better

And underclock each one to 97%

If you know the maths you could underclock a big part of them to 96% as well

[silent patrol]

okay and for logistics how would i go about that?

[cloud comet]

Like, which part?

[silent patrol]

i have 3 oil miners how would i get 3 sets of pipes into all the refiners

[cloud comet]

Oh

Perhaps 2 floors of 10 and 1 floor of 5 is better then

Or a 15 10 split

[north wren]

any alternates?

[silent patrol]

meaning? like turbofuel?

i have turbo fuel but closest coal is 1000m

and sulfur is even further

[ripe dawn]

guessing you are on the west of the map?

[silent patrol]

also with this would i just do one line per floor?

[silent patrol]

rocky desert

yeah west

[ripe dawn]

yep, I wouldn't try and turbo fuel that corner, at least until you get trains.

[north wren]

do you have either of these two?

[silent patrol]

no i do not

[ripe forge]

Hello, i have 3 storage containers, i would like when they are full, that the excess is send to the sink, how can i do that ?

[ripe dawn]

winter, I suggest your easy starter fuel factory is like the getting started with fuel power on the fuel generator page (but x4) for your nodes. There are more advanced versions with the alts, but this should do you for where you are in the game:

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Fuel-Powered_Generator

[still blade]

all that to fully use a 200% overclocked MK2 miner (im not doing 250% because i dont have mk5 belts)

[silent patrol]

im upgrading my old fuel factory which im pretty sure was this one

[noble timber]

It is? That's amazing

[ripe dawn]

oh I see, the next upgrade is going to find those alts posted by FC :) Go find those and then check out totalexclipse or imkibitz video on big fuel.
Basically, the plan is to produce more fuel from the same nodes by mixing waterin the diluted packaged fuel recipe and a complicated package/unpack circle.

[silver aurora]

can you get alt recipe for things you dont have unlocked yet?

[cursive heron]

no

[cloud marlin]

are there more detailed patch notes detailing changes to recipes?

[oblique hollow]

nope

[strong axle]

Why are you building screws just to build screws

[still blade]

the green boxes are the final output

and you need screws to build some machines iirc

[muted crypt]

this is a technical yes

You can get the recipes for pure quartz crystal, pure caterium/copper/iron ingot and wet concrete before getting refineries

[muted crypt]

If I'm not mistaken only the AWESOME Shop requires screws to be built. Nothing else does.

[north wren]

I recommend going to a hard drive hunt, but until then.
take your pure crude nodes, split them into two 300m³/min pipes for simplicity sake
you should have 5 pipes of 300 crude/min
each pipe feeds 10 refineries, i like having half make plastic and half making rubber (make sure to sink the excess)
you get 150 Heavy Oil Residue (HOR) out of each set of 10 refineries, which gets sent to 2.5 refineries to make 100 fuel for 5 fuel generators.
with this set up you get you the plastic and rubber you definitely still need and feeds 25 fuel generators for 6.25 GW of power,

once you get the alternates i showed you earlier you can make your 1500 m³/min of crude into 2000m³/min of HOR which becomes 4000m³/min of Fuel, which feeds 200 Fuel generators.

[still blade]

oh, so i dont even need screws if im using screw-less alts?

[ashen girder]

Smart splitters have an overflow choice. Caterium is what you'll want for that.

[muted crypt]

Correct

[magic turret]

first time seeing pure iron ingot recipe being used

[strong axle]

I think only the AWESOME shop requires screws as a buildable

[ripe forge]

ok, on my way to unlock them then, thank you vr !

[still blade]

20 free iron per iron at the cost of water

[muted crypt]

Screws are a decent production to set up in tiers 1 and 2, but not going into storage (just letting the output buffer fill up) but past that it's never needed.

[muted crypt]

I'm not sure where you're getting this number, it's 7 ore -> 13 ingots isn't it?

[strong axle]

I love the pure recipes, but it's probably less time efficient to build them, even with blueprints. You're basically trading time spent belting resources over for time spent belting water over

[magic turret]

yeah but like 10mj extra for the refinery

[still blade]

im looking at the PPM numbers, and i just checked, its 35 > 65

[muted crypt]

which when simplified is 7 -> 13

[strong axle]

I like it because you can more than double a copper node and almost double an iron node for some water which is abundant everywhere except desert

[rose adder]

pure iron ingot is blasting with it's WP (3.51) performance

[magic turret]

wth is this spreadsheet

seems usefull

[muted crypt]

Five recipe cycles per minute makes 35 into 65, sure, I was looking per recipe

Regardless I'm not sure where you got "20 free iron per iron"

[still blade]

it was 30, and its for the PPM numbers

since thats what i look at when calculating stuff

[rose adder]

i'm in the process of creating it, it calculates Weighted Points for every recipe with ability to interchange ingredients

[muted crypt]

I think you're missing my point, "20 free iron per iron" doesn't make sense

[strong axle]

Yeah what? It's not even buy one get one free

[magic turret]

weighted points? what's that? (probably a stupid question)

[strong axle]

Basically percentage of all raw resources on the map

[muted crypt]

Comparison from raw consumption vs global supply

[strong axle]

If you want to use the most resource efficient recipies, using the lower WP ones is a good rule of thumb

[rose adder]

this is how efficient the recipe is relative to the use of raw materials

[magic turret]

ohhh

[rose adder]

less value == better

[magic turret]

you guys are syphoning all resources from everywhere ahahaha

[still blade]

in the normal recipe, its a 1:1 conversion, 30 iron/m for 30 ingot/m.

with the pure alt, you use 35 iron/m, and get 65 ingots/m, which would've required 30 more iron/m to get, now replaced by water.

[ashen girder]

For a generic conversation, sure, but it can be invaluable to trade one ore for another for local nodes.

[strong axle]

It can get more complicated though when you are using more limited resources like caterium or sulfur

[ashen girder]

WP is only completely accurate if you're actually consuming the whole map.

Which misses a lot of nuance.

[still blade]

effectively 30 free "iron per iron", given the original recipe is 1:1

[strong axle]

Lol I should try that some day. In AGS start out with miner mk3, belt all the resources to the center of the map and start from there. How will I use 100k iron ore per minute LMAO

[muted crypt]

I know how the recipe works but you're not reading what you originally said and realizing it's wrong

"20 free iron per iron" is not how that recipe works, it's a "buy 7 get 6 free" not a "buy 1 get 20 free" (as your wording implies)

[strong axle]

No. You are using 35 iron and getting 65. That means each iron gives 65/35 of an ingot instead of 1/1. That's not 30 free per

[muted crypt]

Genuinely your wording is what I'm commenting on, nothing else

[still blade]

my wording isnt the best anyway, i tried to say that its better than the original

[muted crypt]

That I can agree with

[strong axle]

Totally, since water is essentially unlimited unless you live in the desert

[still blade]

english is my third language iirc, so im not the best at wording stuff

[muted crypt]

all good! Just important to make that clarification is all

[ashen girder]

Also, WP gets really weird if you start tossing SAM in. 😂

[ripe dawn]

As far as I can tell, satisfactorytools.com and satisfactory-calculator.com, without lots of recipe deselects, both always choose most-material-efficient recipe selections.

is anyone aware of an online calculator that is configurable to do power-efficient factories? I.e. they would select a preference for tempered / leached ingots rather than pure ingots? (i.e. these recipes create the same output from least machines rather than least input material)

[muted crypt]

true!

[strong axle]

Yeah, I accidentally made too much ficsite too lmao

[fierce ruin]

is turbo heavy fuel worth it?

[restive mantle]

to make a 1:40 splitter, you would have to do 2x 1:20 splitters, and then do 4x 1:10 splitters which is 8x: 1:5 splitters

is this logic correct or is there a way better way to do this

[cloud comet]

You could manifold it

[fierce ruin]

load balancer?

40/2=20 20/2=10 10/2= 5 you would have to have belts which feed back into the input

you need to go up to the next number which can be divided by two or three down to 2 or 3

[cursive heron]

does every player in the world take from the same mercer depo

[fierce ruin]

yes

[restive mantle]

i could but i dont want to use a manifold in this scenario because i have 800 / min canister and while making these canisters i have to do something with the heavy residue which i turned into fuel which i want to package and do whatever with it but i dont future stuff relying on a really long and far apart manifold since i'll have to chain the manifold from 1 loc

[restive mantle]

yes load balancer is the more appropriate term

[fierce ruin]

load balancer is your other option but this one would take up a LOAD of space

[restive mantle]

yea

i might do it just to see if i can pull it off lol

[fierce ruin]

whats the enxt number after 40 which can be divided by two or three down to 2 or 3

[restive mantle]

none its awkward

[fierce ruin]

there is one

[restive mantle]

oh wait i read the question wrong

it has to be a 1:40 since the packaged fuel recipe takes 40 canisters and i have 3 of these, so i just wanna grab 120 / min from my 800 / min

[toxic dove]

is it true that having a 600/min oil extractor isnt really giving 600/min oil because the best pipe we have is mk2 which is only 600/min flow

[snow scroll]

hey guys any reason 4 water pumps cant go to 8 coal generators?

[oblique hollow]

i dont think there is one atm

[fierce ruin]

youd have to treat the load balancer like you are splitting into 54 machines

[oblique hollow]

power efficient factories would be ones with thousands of machines at 1% speed

[fierce ruin]

then the empty splitter slots go back into the input

[oblique hollow]

so the power optimization is left to the player

[lunar ingot]

If I understand correctly, couldn't you do this in the opposite order: do a single 1:5 splitter, then split each output 8 ways

[remote ice]

at that point it's a power tradeoff. You're using less power ingame in return for a bigger electricity bill

[fierce ruin]

i can show you my 1:10 load balancer that i got nearby

[burnt pecan]

i just started oil and i want to build a turbofuel factory. im bricking the whole blue crater rn but i dont really know how much power i should be aiming for. im thinking like 20-30GW but im not sure, anyone have suggestions?

[cold bane]

Can anyone tell me how to change the SCIM production planner to default to Mk 2 Miners and Mk1 Extractors?

[fierce ruin]

thats a good goal

[oblique hollow]

its 3 to 8 usually
but the answer is "if you funnel it al into one pipe segment only"
you need 2 pipes for this

[restive mantle]

i've built funny balancers like 1:14 and 1:5 and 1:7 before but this one is just awkward since its massive

[remote ice]

as your poor computer tries to keep up with the hundred thousand machines you built

[fierce ruin]

you can get 188.88 GW out of blue crater

with just turbofuel

[burnt pecan]

10 gw is a pretty big variable amount of power (for me) rn, do you reccomend i go more towards 20 or 30 gw?

[snow scroll]

what do you mean 2 pipes?

[oblique hollow]

4 extractors make 480/min water
mk 1 pipes can only do 300/min

[glossy schooner]

basically put two "inputs", one on either side

[snow scroll]

gotcha but why does my gens on the very end dont fill up with water? if i only have 3 aswell

[glossy schooner]

it will distribute the water better and not run into flow problems

[fierce ruin]

caterium computers or steel screws??

[oblique hollow]

depends on how you built it all

[snow scroll]

hmm

[oblique hollow]

did you put 3 generators on one water extractor?

[fierce ruin]

it'll be more future proof but since you can get 188.88 GW out of Blue Crater it is however much torture you can handle tbh

[snow scroll]

no there all connected onto one pipe linked to all gens

[glossy schooner]

this is bad

[restive mantle]

120 / 5 = 24

24 / 8 = 3

using this i could do 4 outputs at 30/min and then split the 4th into 10 10 10 and then feed it back into the other 3

might try this, thanks

[muted crypt]

Are you wanting to pull fuel away from a diluted packaged fuel loop?

[oblique hollow]

yeah the problem is that you are trying to move 360/min water
but the pipe you force it all into can only do 300/min

[burnt pecan]

im thinking 25GW because 25000/250(the amount that fuel gens produce) is 100 fuel gens, nice simple numbers?

[glossy schooner]

this is good

[muted crypt]

I'm trying to figure out what you're doing here and wanna make sure I'm following, @restive mantle

[glossy schooner]

blue circle is water gen, black are coal power

[fierce ruin]

yeah jsut work backwards from there, lemme see if i can get you a map of blue crater

[burnt pecan]

i already have it lol

[burnt pecan]

im making it into a brick rn

[fierce ruin]

all the resources mapped out?

[burnt pecan]

on the map yeah

i dont have any of them claimed yet

[glossy schooner]

my paint diagram is better >:(

[snow scroll]

oh so id have to split them?

[oblique hollow]

ye

[snow scroll]

gotcha ty

[oblique hollow]

your one pipe cannot supply 8 generators

[glossy schooner]

fluids are both easier and harder than belts

[glossy schooner]

because pipes can flow in either direction

[burnt pecan]

yeah i got that map too

[fierce ruin]

you can have one main pipe for the gens but the water extractors have to enter the pipe in different places

the pipe will remain constantly full instead of trying to shove to much through one end

[glossy schooner]

honestly even if the throughput should be 300 m3/min you should put inputs at either end anyways

i did that for my fuel gens (600 m3/min total mk2 pipes) and startup was a breeze

[fierce ruin]

mk1 pipes are awful at large scale

[restive mantle]

nah basically im just being a bit of a spastic and i've made 800 / min canister

in order to deal with the byproduct of making the plastic required for these canisters, i've just turned heavy oil residue into residual fuel

i have 180 heavy oil residue going into 3 refineries making 120 fuel a minute. the other 20 heavy oil residue since 20 refineries making plastic generate 200 heavy oil residue a minute is gonna be used for weapons of mass destruction (stuff for cluster bombs and rifle ammo)

the fuel i've decided to just package so i can use it, but in order to package it i gotta draw from my collection of 800 / min canisters, and i need 120/ min from this collection and i don't wanna do a manifold since that is a logistical nightmare if i wanna use canisters for something else

[fierce ruin]

my 56 gen plant uses mk1 pipes

[glossy schooner]

just keep your pipes as level as possible and there's no issue

bruh

[fierce ruin]

i didnt have mk2

[glossy schooner]

that sounds giga awful

[fierce ruin]

took 3 days of building and tearing down before i felt safe starting it up

caterium computers or steels screws? both are good but idk which one

[muted crypt]

How many constructors do you have making canisters?

[lunar ingot]

oh, I misunderstood the problem. you could skip a bunch of the splitting/load balancing by using a Mk 2 belt at the right spot so it's physically impossible for your system to use more than 120 items per minute

[muted crypt]

800 canisters per minute would be 13.333 constructors, yes?

[restive mantle]

yea 14 with 1 underclocked. This is running on a manifold input because dont see why not

[muted crypt]

You can also just directly pull two constructors' outputs (200% total clock, to be specific) onto their own belt aimed directly for the packaged fuel and merge the rest onto their own 680 belt. This would force exactly 120 toward the fuel, and 680 elsewhere by never mixing the outputs of the canister makers anyway.

If you're relying on manifold input you can also just let it manifold and it'll fix itself 🤔 I don't see why you'd need a 1:40 splitter or whatever you were saying

The 1:40 would be for the excess HOR going toward weaponry, I assume

[glossy schooner]

i feel like most of the better alts remove screws from their inputs? i have steel screws but haven't seen a big use

and it seems like a waste to add coal to the line if there wasn't any already

[muted crypt]

And for that you can just... send your partial constructor to cover that too

Since your 33.3333% constructor is making 20 canisters

So if your goal is to package the fuel, lead two 100%-clock constructors making canisters on their own belts to the fuel to be packaged

If your goal is to package the heavy oil residue, lead your underclocked constructor on its own belt to the heavy oil residue to be packaged

[restive mantle]

oh wow i did not realise this, thanks

[restive mantle]

this is also a good solution, sometimes i just automatically revert to making a manifold / load balancer and i dont see the way easier solution lol

[fierce ruin]

CATERIUM COMPUTERS OR STEEL SCREWS?

[glossy schooner]

is uh, ionized fuel worth it?

[restive mantle]

thanks guys

[glossy schooner]

just noticed it costs power shards to make on the wiki

[fierce ruin]

dont think it is for power

but for jetpack yes

[glossy schooner]

mhm

[muted crypt]

to note, this recommendation doesn't use a belt tier step-down to force a specific quantity - you can continue to use any tier that would accept it

[glossy schooner]

so rocket fuel is top of the line for fuel gens

[muted crypt]

Its not really something we can answer for you, it's better or worse depending on use case and local resources but if you hit late game where you're grabbing globally you probably also have all alts anyway and thus having to make the decision now is moot

[silent patrol]

i was eating but with this could i do it the same without plastic or rubber because i actually dont need any and am planning to make a different farm for that somewhere else

[muted crypt]

The HOR alt still has polymer resin as a byproduct, but if you don't care about making the plastic or rubber with it you could just sink the resin

[fierce ruin]

yes, wanna see a blue crater graph?

[glossy schooner]

sure, why not

[molten light]

nice xd

[silent patrol]

thats what i was planning to do but would it still require the same amount of fuel generators?

were you speaking to me?

[muted crypt]

Every recipe that uses crude oil has a byproduct except for 1) packaging the crude oil and 2) and alternate for a recipe in t9

[glossy schooner]

i assume that's using "maximize"?

[fierce ruin]

yep

[muted crypt]

Yes I was

[fierce ruin]

from the amount of crude oil in the region

[muted crypt]

I thought I replied to your message, my bad

[glossy schooner]

is it any better with turbo blend?

[fierce ruin]

turbofuel? no

[haughty sigil]

thx!!

[glossy schooner]

oh is this only taking into accound the crude in the area?

[fierce ruin]

yup

2550

[silent patrol]

so would it still be 5 fuel generators per 10 refiners

[fierce ruin]

it can make like 566.66 GW

[glossy schooner]

seems like a fun project

[fierce ruin]

with rocket fuel

very overkill

[glossy schooner]

well i need to finish phase 3 first before even looking at this

lmao

[fierce ruin]

Lol itd take likely a month to do atleast

[alpine turret]

Someone probably asked this but if i wanted to make the "best" power plant, is it better to go and make ionized fuel or stay with nuclear?

[muted crypt]

If you're using the Heavy Oil Residue alt recipe and one of the two ways of making Diluted Fuel - the direct way with Blenders or the packaging loop way with Refineries/Packagers - one refinery using crude oil would cover four fuel generators

30 crude -> 40 HOR -> 80 fuel

[silent patrol]

im using normal fuel recipe with polymer resin byproduct

dont have any alts yet

[glossy schooner]

grab those hard drives

[muted crypt]

Then in that case one refinery making fuel covers two generators

[silent patrol]

although ive done like 40+ hard drives

[glossy schooner]

hor is top tier

[muted crypt]

60 crude -> 40 fuel

(These are per-minute rates)

[silent patrol]

i have 20 refineries so thats 40 gens?

that doesnt sound right

[muted crypt]

How much crude oil do you have

[silent patrol]

600,600 and 300

3 nodes

[fierce ruin]

you shouldve worked backwards

[muted crypt]

1500 crude oil, 60 crude oil per refinery

1500 ÷ 60 = 25 refineries

[silent patrol]

i need 25?

[muted crypt]

25 refineries each turning 60 crude oil into 40 fuel

25 * 40 = 1000 fuel

[silent patrol]

my head hurts

[muted crypt]

1000 fuel being used by fuel generators that use 20 each

1000 ÷ 20 = 50 generators

[silent patrol]

this is what im dealing with

[muted crypt]

My messages are coming in slowly because my internet is having a whale of a time rn I apologize

[silent patrol]

thats fine

[muted crypt]

Does my math in my previous few messages make sense

[silent patrol]

yeah that makes sense

the problem now is logistics

[muted crypt]

The reason why the alts we named are so good is because that 1500 crude oil, instead of making 1000 fuel, can actually make 4000 fuel

[toxic dove]

math makes sense, and also said what i wanted to do
but i found that the pratical output is actually less than that number according to my experience

[toxic dove]

it hurt my brain for so long ngl

[muted crypt]

Elaborate on that last part for me? I'm not sure I'm following

[toxic dove]

gimme some time to write my explanation xd

[muted crypt]

No rush

[toxic dove]

although the oil extractor said 600 /min but i think it is the AVERGAE output and the flow rate is actually something around 600 plus/minus 50 to 75.

in other words, at some time the oil extractor can theoretically give more than 600/min output at some time. However, the pipe mk2 only limits to 600/min, which means that the overall average output is less than 600/min.

I found this interesting phenomenon when i tried to use pipe mk2 for my 300/min extractor, and it doesnt really give 300/min all the time, but sometimes 200/min, sometimes 400/min, so the 300 should be an average.

Same idea goes to the 600 extractor.

(not sure if it is correct but i tried using 10 100% refineries for my 600 extractor and it simply didnt work.)

[mental yacht]

Is it me or upgrading my rocket fuel power plant into a ionized fuel powerplant doesn't seem that much energy-interesting ? Creating the powershards seems to use a lot of energy

[muted crypt]

Rocket Fuel seems to be the most efficient.

[mental yacht]

Ok thanks, I'm not crazy then. I'll aim for a nuclear power plant setup then

[muted crypt]

Liquids do sort of slosh around within pipes. I'm curious if you let the pipe fill up completely before turning on any refineries if this would still be the case

[toxic dove]

yea i let all the pipes fill up first before connecting the electricity

after all its just my guess tho, still waiting for a professtional answer xd

[muted crypt]

This does seem to be a time to call upon @oblique hollow, who I know has extensive exposure to pipework in this game lol

[oblique hollow]

600 is special because it hates existing
any oter kind of value works fine
300 in a mk 1 pipe is fine
300 in a mk 2 is fine
600 in a mk 2 is always critical and require special care

[silent patrol]

so ive rearranged them into a long line of 25 now what do i do 😭 (im terrible at this)

[oblique hollow]

if all your builds keep using 600/min in a mk 2, im not surprised you see the systems you've built as "unreliable if used as calculated"

[oblique hollow]

just hook em up to oil

[silent patrol]

if only it was that simple

[oblique hollow]

group them
you need.... how much oil in total?

[delicate chasm]

Ooo... Compacted steel ingot changed. I almost auto-skipped it when I saw but then noticed the numbers looked different.

From 6 iron ore + 3 compacted coal = 10 steel ingots to
2 iron ore + 1 compacted coal = 4 steel ingots now.

This makes it the most resource efficient overall, not just iron efficient. ❤️

[muted crypt]

1500

[toxic dove]

i see, my way to make a 600 oil extractor with 10 refineries working is to underclock one of them to 50%
(they really should make a mk3 pipe ngl)

[oblique hollow]

1500. that could be 4 mk 1 pipes

[silent patrol]

1500 (600 600 300)

[oblique hollow]

well you can just split the 600s into 2 x 300 if that feels safer

(it usually is)

hooking up the 300 is as simple as you probably think it is

[silent patrol]

so i have 5 pipes thats 5 for each

seems simple

[oblique hollow]

mk 3 wont ever happen because the code doesnt support it in any way

It cant handle it

[silent patrol]

should they be mk 1 though as you said

[river night]

they even talked about reducing pipes to 250/500 (and all production/consumption accordingly) to relax the fluid calculations, but I suppose they figured this wasn't required in the end, but definitely no mk3

[muted crypt]

And each set of five will output 200 fuel, which covers ten fuel generators. You could set up one set of refineries and generators at a time so you can have the power available to kick more on if you wanted

[oblique hollow]

if you have an oil extractor making 600/min, split the mk 2 pipe coming out of it as soon as possible
then put a pipeline pump on each of the splits
this keeps the "pressure" of each pipe seperate

else you would probably encounter trouble if the pipes moved up or down a tiny amount

[muted crypt]

The pipes can still be mk2, just so the additional stuff right at the start when splitting in half

[silent patrol]

seems simple enough ill probably be back here with another problem though

[oblique hollow]

i have faith in you

[muted crypt]

That's the spirit

[oblique hollow]

just make sure to also play it safe with the fuel output

[delicate chasm]

That's how it goes with pipes!

[silent patrol]

i wouldn't lol 😭

[oblique hollow]

you can totally put 480/min fuel into a mk 2 pipe

[muted crypt]

Hence this suggestion, McGalleon

[oblique hollow]

or even just 400

400 and 400 seems nice tbh

[muted crypt]

Well it'd be 400 400 200

[oblique hollow]

oh right

oooor 500 / 500

500 is still fine

[muted crypt]

Or 200 200 200 200 200 for moar piep

[oblique hollow]

or 2 fuel gens directly connected to each refinery xd

[muted crypt]

true!

[silent patrol]

im glad i stopped reading lol what are you on about 😭

[muted crypt]

We are shitposting about pipe combinations for the fuel

[oblique hollow]

different ways to group pipes
fuel gens use 20/min fuel after all

[muted crypt]

Or, at least, I am

[mint birch]

I'm trying to make a fluid priority line. Did i do it right? Pink is the input. Blue is the line i want to be full first. red is the over flow.

[oblique hollow]

no the red one should be a bit taller. maybe 4 m extra
use a pipeline pump on the pink line

[mint birch]

powered or unpowered ? i saw somewhere i needed an unpowered one

[oblique hollow]

ALWAYS powered

[fierce ruin]

is there a pure steel ingot alt recipe sorta thing?

[oblique hollow]

unpowered pumps are not good

[oblique hollow]

Pure as in?
Add water get steel?

[fierce ruin]

yuh

[oblique hollow]

nah lol

[muted crypt]

no, since steel inherently needs two materials

[fierce ruin]

dang:(

so compacted steel recipe?

[oblique hollow]

all steel alts need some carbon-rich material

[ashen girder]

Should be a biofuel+iron recipe to make steel. 😁

[oblique hollow]

be it coal or coke or compacted coal

[oblique hollow]

biocoal

[fierce ruin]

which one is the best

[delicate chasm]

Compacted steel's now the most resource efficient, though I still think I like solid and coke best.

[ashen girder]

I mean directly in a refinery.

[oblique hollow]

varies
all have different iron and coal efficiency

[ashen girder]

Iron and coal and sulfur and oil efficiency*

[muted crypt]

Solid Steel is probably your closest to a "pure" in terms of how it increases the numbers of the output specifically, right?

[delicate chasm]

Given the extra sulfur on the map now though I will actually be using some compacted steel non-ironically. (SE grass fields)

[oblique hollow]

Solid Steel has the potential for highest iron efficiency

[fierce ruin]

would you choose compacted steel over steamed copper sheets?

say tier 5 or 6 area

[oblique hollow]

do you have compacted coal?

[delicate chasm]

Compacted was changed, it's now 2 iron 1 compacted coal to 4 steel.

[fierce ruin]

yes

[oblique hollow]

click on the recipe to see the output rates
then open the codex and compare

right click the steel ingot and "open codex should appear"

[mint birch]

this better?

[oblique hollow]

yeh. make sure its powered, then it should all be fine

[fierce ruin]

i have the coke steel

which is technically better output wise

[silent patrol]

this already looks wrong

[oblique hollow]

its fine!

[median void]

Question, I have an idea for a manifold. Say you have an incoming belt and every splitter is a priority splitter that prefers the machine input - this idea feels a bit over-engineered and expensive on AI limiters, but does it make sense? Like, for seeing how many machines you can supply and diagnosing supply chain problems?

[muted crypt]

one pipe of 300 crude oil leads into five refineries making fuel + polymer resin, the resin goes to a sink and the fuel goes to 10 fuel generators

Do this five times

[mental yacht]

If I get it correclty, do not plan with 600 m³ into Mk2 pipes, even going for 590 is safer

[oblique hollow]

or just split the mk 2 as soon as possible into 2 pipes

[muted crypt]

I do this inherently anyway

[silent patrol]

literally 0 faith in myself for this to work

[muted crypt]

Do it for FICSIT

[mental yacht]

Ok thanks.

[oblique hollow]

the only thing thats goofy is the 2 bent pipes at the very bottom

why not keep it straight

[silent patrol]

if im doing it for anyone im doing it for ada 😍

[mental yacht]

@oblique hollow Same thing for all liquids I suppose. And what about gas ?

[silent patrol]

i needed 25 refiners and i literally couldnt fit the last one in the line

[oblique hollow]

this one should be redone
i see a support
thats dangerous

[oblique hollow]

you can adjust the line

[delicate chasm]

The thing to avoid is merging mk2 pipes which are running networks at flow rates of 600m3. Any mk2 pipe segment that is running 600m3 should be isolated from the rest of the network by pumps or valves (usually pumps).

[oblique hollow]

you built it!

[oblique hollow]

all fluids (so liquid and gas)

[silent patrol]

that means rebuilding it...

[oblique hollow]

its JUST the pipe and junction there

[grim musk]

Need more ADA degrading me but I have completed all milestones, all MAM research, collected every hard drive and over 80% of all Artifacts so no more Voicelines left in this save :(

Actually I just remembered I have not bought every single awesome shop item yet, I'm saving for the golden nut

[oblique hollow]

its not a hard fix

[silent patrol]

you know what time to rip it down for the 4th time

[oblique hollow]

its just 2 junctions and 5 pipes
no need to redo anything else

[grim musk]

? Just scoot the junctions

[silent patrol]

i thought you had a problem with the bit on the end going up

[oblique hollow]

i dont see anything going up?

[muted crypt]

That works lol

[oblique hollow]

unless you mean that bend

[silent patrol]

this

[muted crypt]

She does occasionally chime in when you just buy stuff from the shop

[oblique hollow]

LOL i didnt even see this

No thats fine

[grim musk]

Yeah that's what I meant, so I still have voice lines left, I remembered it while listing all voice line locations

[muted crypt]

Like part purchasing not unlocked items

[oblique hollow]

im just concerned with those 2 junctions and pipes i showed

[grim musk]

Unlocking items too tho

[muted crypt]

OIC

[silent patrol]

how do i put a junction on the first one?

[grim musk]

That pump is not really needed either tbh, it's fine, just not 100% needed to function

[oblique hollow]

put the junction on the foundation first, THEN do the pipes there

[silent patrol]

YOU CAN DO THAT

[grim musk]

Just remove the pipe and then juction while holding CTRL, it will line up to the input

[oblique hollow]

YES

[grim musk]

Yep, hold control :D

[silent patrol]

this couldve been so much easier

[oblique hollow]

You can put pumps and junctions directly on foundations and walls

[delicate chasm]

While we're right here, do you know about nudge?

[silent patrol]

probably not atp

[delicate chasm]

I forget if it's the default key or not, but for me it's H.

With a build hologram out, press H and it should lock into place so you can walk around it and look at it.

[grim musk]

Oh and tip for placing them on floating or existing pipes, hold ctrl, place one on the floor lined up, and then while holding control place one on the floating pipe, it will line up with the one on the floor

[delicate chasm]

You can use the arrow keys to move it 1m in any lateral direction.

[grim musk]

If they're exactly above each other it might not work so place it a bit further away than the floating pipe but still lined up with the porthole

[silent patrol]

sounds useful

[muted crypt]

To note, locking in place and nudging can happen with any place able structure iirc, not just pipe junctions

Hell it can work with blueprints

[ashen girder]

Almost any. Stupid water extractors.

[silent patrol]

this looks better

[oblique hollow]

yeah a lot better

[delicate chasm]

I think you CAN lock and nudge extractors if you build them on foundations (need to be just below the water's surface for extractors to be placed, but it does grid-lock them)

Not near water to try.

[oblique hollow]

remember to add a pipeline pump on each pipe right after the mk 2 pipe split
its not really needed but it is extra safety here

you are dealing with mk 2 at 600 after all

[silent patrol]

nk1 or mk2 pump?

[oblique hollow]

mk 1 should be fine

you dont need 50m here

[pulsar fox]

How would i split an output of 200 into 10 inputs of 20?

[silent patrol]

next problem is this (sorry if im being a pain)

[oblique hollow]

i see no issue

[silent patrol]

would i not need pumps?

[oblique hollow]

split in 2
then split in 5
(split in 5 = split in 6 equally, then loop one output back)

[silent patrol]

or are pumps only for headlift

[oblique hollow]

oh right after the split
it wont hurt if you add them here too

[silent patrol]

so add one at the beginning one at the end?

[oblique hollow]

just at the beginning

you dont need pumps for long flat pipelines

this is just to keep the mk 2 pipe safe and stable

[silent patrol]

okay i can finish this side i just know the next problem will be getting polymer resin into a sink

[delicate chasm]

My favorite way to accomplish that is to add water to make fabric and sink the fabric.

[pulsar fox]

thanks

[delicate chasm]

It's also quite doable to make a little extra fuel and do some plastic and rubber recyling loops for extremely cheap resources.

[silent patrol]

its 5 refiners per 10 fuel gens right

[oblique hollow]

1 refinery for 2 gens
so yes

[silent patrol]

materials for 50 gens...

[delicate chasm]

😭 Diluted Fuel or Turbo Electric Motor...this is the most cruel hard drive I have ever rolled.

But I already have DPF and am hunting TEM so...

grumble Couldn't have gotten fine concrete or cheap silica with this...

[cedar ivy]

Can someone give me the rundown about Quartz Purification? Getting better ratios of both quartz and silica out of that seems really good, but i feel like i'm underestimating it or nitric acid somehow

[oblique hollow]

2 refineries to 1 blender
ideally, you do 6 to 3

that way you can recycle the water neatly

[fleet hatch]

Is there somewhere where I can see the total amount of project assembly parts that are required for completing the game after taking into consideration the somersloop doubling?

[oblique hollow]

Wiki, but that doesnt consider slooping

You can just divide those parts by 2 if you want

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Space_Elevator

[fleet hatch]

Yup, have seen the wiki, and didn't want to do the full calculation right now. Well will do the calculation some other time then. Thanks anyway.

[oblique hollow]

btw, do you mean sloop doubling for all the production steps?

[fleet hatch]

yup

[oblique hollow]

Ah.
I dont think anyone did that as that takes way too many sloops

you only got 106

[fleet hatch]

just want to see how many tier 2 i need in total

[oblique hollow]

and the research takes some away

[fleet hatch]

I mean to just set make the parts as needed not setup dedicated factory

so less will be required, just when we need to make the part.

[oblique hollow]

well for that i would only sloop the machine making the elevator parts themselves,
not things like.... motor assemblers

[fleet hatch]

at most 16 if we make all the parts for a phase together or 4 if we do one by one

[fleet hatch]

yup yup that is what I was saying.

[oblique hollow]

that seems more feasible to calculate

for the final parts, its just half

[ashen girder]

Just tedious, I think, because the chains are, what, 3 or 4 deep?

[oblique hollow]

and then for the elevator parts needed for other elevator parts, half again

i'll see if i'll run the math for that soon

[fleet hatch]

Yeah never went above phase 2 before, so was just wanting to see for all the parts.

[fierce ruin]

is turbo heavy fuel any better than the standard turbofuel?

[fleet hatch]

nice. Please ping me if you want. Otherwise I will try it too once I get the time.

[silent patrol]

it begins (these logistics are going to be awful)

im more wondering how im going to jump start this

[fierce ruin]

batteries

[ashen girder]

Power storages. 😛

[ashen girder]

Go install geothermal generators everywhere. That should help kickstart it.

[silent patrol]

do you have to hook them up to power?

[ashen girder]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you want them to provide power to your power grid, they need to be connected, yeah. But they don't require any power, or anything.

[silent patrol]

yeah thats what i meant

[ashen girder]

Geothermals are a permanent average of 7.1GW added to your grid just for the effort of setting it up and some power storages.

[silent patrol]

how many geysers are there?

[silent patrol]

31?!

[ashen girder]

31!!

[silent patrol]

thats a few

[ashen girder]

Just a couple, yeah.

[silent patrol]

do fuel gens use power to create power?

[ashen girder]

Fuel requires power to create, yes.

[silent patrol]

i mean the generators themselves like do they consume power

[ashen girder]

They don't, no.

[silent patrol]

thats good then

[hot dove]

Either the math isn't mathing or I'm having a stroke. Shouldn't it be 12 blenders?

[ashen girder]

Does greeny have the same bug the Wiki had? 😮

[tough pond]

What did you use for this

[dapper raven]

has the factory planner been updated to work with 1.0 now already? i was just coming to ask if there were any factory planners working yet before i started a new save

[hot dove]

satisfactorytools.com

[tough pond]

Thx

[ashen girder]

They were working as of release.

[dapper raven]

awesome

[hot dove]

Might still be some kinks

[ashen girder]

There's just a bug in that specific recipe that broke them.

It's the first recipe that isn't a whole number of seconds.

[hot dove]

Oh that's odd

[errant pecan]

Yeah but you have to switch to it or is that satisfactory tools

[ashen girder]

Yeah, so the tools think it only takes 2 seconds instead of 2.4, causing the math to all be 20% off.

[hot dove]

That would explain it.

[errant pecan]

Odd

[hot dove]

I was racking my brain for like half an hour wondering why my gens weren't workign at 100%

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that'll do it. 😂 Someone should tag greeny and let him know.

[hot dove]

first time satisfactorytools failed me lol, normally it's my fault

[errant pecan]

First time for everything huh

[hot dove]

i would if I new his @

[dapper raven]

they have always been good 🙂

[errant pecan]

Even if a bit slow sometimes can't blame it though

[ashen girder]

I would say it's always been satisfactory.

[silent patrol]

this looks normal right?

[ashen girder]

Looks a lil foggy.

[silent patrol]

besides that do the pipes look like they will work?

[delicate chasm]

As long as each cluster of 10 has a separate intake that I can't quite see in the picture - yes.

I think that's what you were working out with McGalleon earlier though so I presume that is the case.

[fierce ruin]

what is electrode aluminum scrap???

[delicate chasm]

It is bae.

[silent patrol]

yeah there is one case im unsure about the one sec

this (blue is input)

[errant pecan]

Pipelines go brrr

[silent patrol]

i just clicked my discord profile and realised ive been playing 8 hours non stop

[errant pecan]

That is satisfactory

[silent patrol]

maybe thats not good for my health

[oblique hollow]

Take a break

[delicate chasm]

Is that a mark 1 pipe trying to feed 400m3 of liquid in to 20 gens?

[silent patrol]

NEVER I TAKE A BREAK WHEN IM FINISHED :DDDDDDDDD

[oblique hollow]

at least 15 minutes
please

[errant pecan]

Ficsit demands maximum efficiency but on a serious note do take a break

[oblique hollow]

Ficsit demands breaks

they remind you every 2 hours

[fierce ruin]

15 minute breaks are granted every 2 hours

[silent patrol]

collapsing from exhaustion is very looked down upon!

[delicate chasm]

While resting is not an activity valued by FICSIT, the inability to function due to fatigue is a violation of your contract.

[errant pecan]

Lmao

[silent patrol]

yeah i was told mk1?

[livid meteor]

Since uranium is pretty scarce, which alt recipe is good for resource efficiency? I only have the normal and infused uranium cell

[silent patrol]

and no

its 5 refiners in one mk1 pipe for 10 gens

[ashen girder]

Once per day. The other reminders are just to consume your Ficist-branded rations and Ficsit water.

[oblique hollow]

if you do it like that, yes, mk 1 is fine
as thats 200/min fuel

[silent patrol]

do logistics matter or is it a case of get it from refiner to gen

[delicate chasm]

Okay cool, wasn't sure if it was connecting down further. I have a tiny monitor.

[errant pecan]

Precisely also remember eating something and not dying does not provide sufficient evidence that it is safe to eat

[errant pecan]

Was thinking the same thing since I'm on my phone

[oblique hollow]

make it as simple as possible
and not overly large if not needed
you could totally do 400 fuel in mk 2 pipes, but 200 fuel in mk 1 is fine and good too

[woven minnow]

should I use packaged fuel or battery for drones?

[delicate chasm]

So, it looks good! I recommend you turn some of the generators off to start with so that the fuel production is faster than the consumption and permits the network to saturate.

[oblique hollow]

battery have a lot higher energy value
but if those are too complex to make, fuel is fine

[delicate chasm]

I usually switch off 2/10 from each cluster, or 4/20.

(the ones on the ends)

[silent patrol]

hehe

[errant pecan]

After all more sulphur = more boom

[woven minnow]

I can handle early headache for less headache in the future

[oblique hollow]

so drones need 8x more fuel than batteries

[woven minnow]

ouch I should probably use fuel for other useful stuff I guess

[woven minnow]

thanks for the spreadsheet

[oblique hollow]

its on the wiki

[errant pecan]

Yes plutonium

[oblique hollow]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Drone

[woven minnow]

thanks

[delicate chasm]

Rocket fuel looks so appealing in every context.

[woven minnow]

I guess battery is much more a better choice efficient wise imo?

this is my farthest progress so far compare to my pre 1.0

[delicate chasm]

It's really not too bad with the classic battery recipe IMO, but the easiest solutions for logistics to make them involve drones or trains that change elevation/are sky trains, which is a deal killer for me.

[remote ice]

oh excellent, the wiki has the fuel speeds now

[faint stump]

Currently my one factory gets fed from several iron veins nearby. Should I change this in future so my iron is turned to ingots all in one place, then shipped out to factories that need it?

[errant pecan]

Trains have always been a deal killer for me tbh

[hot dove]

What's more efficient from the production/use point of view, batteries or rocket fuel for drones?