math-and-meta

[ashen girder]

Which smelter is running out of scrap? Is it still running at 100%?

[fallen tinsel]

wich one?

[plush marten]

sloppy

if u are on tier 5+

[fallen tinsel]

yea

and i made a basic setup

[worn trout]

Yummy sloppy toppy

[fallen tinsel]

my fav

[earnest tide]

All have 500, so they are all full

[ashen girder]

I don't understand the question then.

[earnest tide]

Evert 10-12min or so, i have not taken the perfect time, but feels it is the time it takes one 500 stack to go away from storage

[ashen girder]

Encased is one of my favorites. 😂

[earnest tide]

i have 1080 in, and using 1080, how can it not be stable, unless a buggy Mrk6 belt/lift

or the refinery isnt making 360 a min

[ashen girder]

I assume all 3 refineries are emptying their water completely?

[earnest tide]

yes. used a lot of hours to make this setup work 100% efficent.. until now i wanted to start using the scrap

only if there was a thing, i could place on a belt or lift, that counted items running on it. There is a mod, yeh i know, but i am a vanilla player on this save.

[ashen girder]

I would empty the container out, let it run without any buffer at all.

That'll let you see where there might be an inefficiency.

[limpid crag]

Does anyone remember a Satisfactory tool website from about 2 years ago that allowed you to select and add and adjust individual buildings, one at a time, and it would calculate what the output was and how much power you were using and all that? I have tried for the life of me to find this site again but I can't

[ashen girder]

Doesn't ring any bells for me, sorry.

[wind spade]

Any. There's no "good" or "bad" with recipes

[fallen tinsel]

i have no clue what im doing

but we ball

[wicked tinsel]

quick question: was train pathing fixed in 1.0? ie. do they repath on signals allowing stackers

[wind spade]

Then flip a coin and go next 🙂

[fallen tinsel]

no i mean in general lol just reached phase 4 and its very confusing

[earnest tide]

yepp, the last smelters after short time is not buffering to full stack already

[true cliff]

What’s the best way to move liquids a long distance or is the best way just pipes

[ashen girder]

I.. actually think that's normal.

[wind spade]

Best way is to not move them long distance

[ashen girder]

That's the last one right? Take the stack out and see if it dries out.

[earnest tide]

no

[cedar kestrel]

Is there a way to calculate how much time a train takes to go from point A to B and B to A without actually timing urself?

[wicked tinsel]

no

[cedar kestrel]

gg

[topaz jetty]

for throughput purposes, just use the ingame display and some good old fashoined math

[cedar kestrel]

Well I am calculating how much throughput of iron I can have to maximize production of computers per minute

[topaz jetty]

Throughput= items/trips

[patent briar]

Is your water backing up sometimes and blocking throughput?

[cedar kestrel]

well yes, right now I can have 720 ore per min using 3 mk2 miners on pure nodes which is exactly how much my factory needs

but i also want to calculate how much each round trip takes

[patent briar]

If water is too full the machine pauses, even if for a moment it would reduce your output rate of aluminum scrap

[topaz jetty]

as i said just pre fill the buffer and see how many round trips it takes to transfer it over

[patent briar]

Not really, you can ignore this if you just add enough trains to saturate throughput, at which point your throughput hits max rate

[cedar kestrel]

well yes

[topaz jetty]

too many trains is also not ideal

[cedar kestrel]

but i dont want to add more trains, it feels like cheating

id rather have like 1 train carrying all the load at an optimal rate

[patent briar]

Only if you have intersections

[topaz jetty]

trains also require power

[wicked tinsel]

saturating only works if stackers can be made, they werent a thing before 1.0 due to bugged pathing logic

no clue if this as fixed or not 😦

[earnest tide]

this setup have been running for 20 hours, so the production is pitch perfect. Been sinking all the time to see if any water problems. Just today, that the problem started, as i wanted to use 1080 scrap a min, it seems it is not making 1080 scrap... or some other strange shit is happening somewhere ...
3 Refinery's, should make 3x360 scrap a min = 1080, and 18 smelters using 1080 a min. so somewhere on the line, something strange is happening

[patent briar]

I have a sheet here, though I haven't yet added the new belt tier to it, to calculate max throughput of trains for a given item

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cv96HNz-XQLmojrBUkHjF6e6vGg8pDYXwipEftFYV9w/edit?usp=drivesdk

[topaz jetty]

The outputs Must NEVER back up or the fluids will back up and stop the system

[cedar kestrel]

I just need to calculate actual travel time to be more accurate on my throughput

but i need to build the railway first

[patent briar]

It's very possible your water is backing up

Trains can be treated the same as belts for throughput calculations if you just saturate the line enough you always have 1 train idling behind the station ready to load

Which usually only takes about 3 trains or so total to work

Shorter lines can do it in 2, but longer lines usually require 3

[earnest tide]

i told, i have no water problem. I have a small buffer on every line, seperating with 3 water extractors, making shure only 80 water a min flowing from the watersource, as the first refinery need 200 water, and scrap refinery making 120 water, that makes a perfect 200 water sycle... no machines are stopping, clogging up, or making a mess. Buffer are never higher then 50%

[patent briar]

Recycling water is very prone to backing up

[sterile harbor]

im making 180 screws a minute to go to one rotor assembler and one reinforced plate assembler and i cant figure out why the rotor one isnt getting enough screws but the plate one is maxed out

[patent briar]

Even if for microseconds

It'll chop off like 1% of your production, enough to ever so slightly drain your buffer as you are witnessing

Anywho for trains it's easy to figure put how many you need

[oblique hollow]

is your belt fast enough
rotors need 100/min screws, reinforced plates dont need that much

[sterile harbor]

i have mk1 belts going to the plates and mk2 going to the rotor

[patent briar]

Step 1: 1 train, set it to "wait for full" and "wait for empty" at respective stations
Step 2: send it on a loop, watch for it to come back to the loading station
Step 3: observe if the station fills up before the train gets back, if it does, add another train, repeat til the train gets back before the station is full
Step 4: done

[sterile harbor]

both coming from the same splitter though so idk if thats right

[lime siren]

Are these split from the same belt? If they are, how fast is it?

[sterile harbor]

well its going into splitter on mk2 and then coming out on mk2 and mk1

[lime siren]

There is your problem. You are trying to transport 180 screws/min on a belt that can only do 120

[sterile harbor]

so i need mk3 ? but then that would be too quick for what these constructors are doing

[lime siren]

There is no "too quick", only if you are limited on materials

So either do mk3, or make 2 separate production lines

[wicked tinsel]

mk2 belts are a scam, dont ever build them btw

[wind spade]

Multiple belts

[wicked tinsel]

just go for mk3 or mk4 as fast as possible

[wind spade]

Why not?

[wicked tinsel]

they are expensive af with reinforced plates

and then t3 is just one steel beam

[wind spade]

Reinforced plates are cheap tbh

[wicked tinsel]

they are super slow to make and not actually all that cheap

[lime siren]

They are also the only way to get full output out of pure nodes in the early game. They are not a scam lol

[oblique hollow]

mk 2 should be used "as necessary"

[wicked tinsel]

pretty much

sure, you need them for miners, but they are pretty pain later

[sterile harbor]

ok yeah added one constructor with a power shard for 60 screws a minute going just into plate assembler and it works great now lmao

[lime siren]

Screws are extremely annoying to work with, since you need a lot of them

[cedar kestrel]

ye screws are the worst

[sterile harbor]

that might be why i originally stopped playing, everything started needing screws and it was overwhelming and then i didnt play for like 2 years

[lime siren]

If it's your cup of tea, I believe you can entirely eliminate screws with alternate recipes. But it makes other things more annoying ofc

+- keeping some to craft some equipment

[sterile harbor]

ive got like one stack in the hub chest just waiting for usage

[karmic tide]

is ficsonium fuel extremely weak?

In terms or resources spent per MW doesn't look too exciting

[sacred pilot]

They've said the benefit is that it has no nasty byproduct. So it is meant to be inefficient but not build up radiation

[lime siren]

Yeah it isn't the greatest. I guess the way to see it is: you can now use the much better plutonium fuel and still remain wasteless

[sacred pilot]

Last update I built a huge facility around sinking plutonium fuel but obviously that nets no additional power. At least with ficsonium you get another round of power out of it

[karmic tide]

eh, added complexety is somehow worse, it seems like I'd rather expand uranium over no waste with ficsnoium

[sacred pilot]

hey do any of the planner tools have rocket fuel built in yet? I love greeny's tool but am tired of writing out the logistics of this by hand already 😛

[wind spade]

Slow just means you didn't build enough machines

[wind spade]

Rocket fuel should be in Tools

[sacred pilot]

this is the choice with a lot of things in the game, yeah. I chose to be way less efficient with turbofuel just so I could use heavy residue over fuel, because the logistics were such a pain

[karmic tide]

you don't have turbofuel input maybe

[wind spade]

Enabled compacted coal and at least one turbofuel recipe?

[sacred pilot]

wow. I'm dumb. Not the first time I've done this lol. Nice QoL eventually would be to have the 'alts' be consistent across tabs

[wind spade]

That is intentionally separate, so you can e.g. compare productions with different recipes

[wicked tinsel]

btw greeny, had you though to add "electricty" as product to that calculator?

[wind spade]

You can have one tab with your recipes and copy that tab instead of making new ones

[wind spade]

In far future maybe. Beta could do that , but it was buggy

[noble timber]

To save me loading up the game, could someone send a screenshot of the values for the iron pipe recipe?

[bold elm]

Anyone know what the new count is for craftable non-consumables?

[wind spade]

!wikisearch steel_pipe

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=steel_pipe

[bold elm]

Was 33 pre 1.0

[wind spade]

33

[noble timber]

Oh I didn't realise it was on the wiki already 😂

[bold elm]

Still have stuff to unlock, so can't count atm.

[wind spade]

33

32 in 0.8, 33 in 1.0

Updated storage list:

Plate, RIP, Beam, EIB
Pipe, Rod
CSheet, ASheet, Plastic, Rubber
Frame, HMF, FMF
Wire, QW, Cable
Crystal, Osc
HSC, AIL
Rotor, Motor, Turbo
Comp, RCU, Super
Casing, Cooling
Concrete, Silica
Fluctuator, Trigon, Time Crystal

33 in total

[bold elm]

Added 3 new items to the list and removed what?

Power shards technically can't be consumed and are unlimited now, I'd probably include them.

[eager solar]

so 33 spheres needed to stock everything you need? nice

[topaz jetty]

Some abbreviations I don’t understand: HSC,AIL and what are super casings

[muted crypt]

Circuit Boards I think were replaced with Computers on train signals

[bold elm]

That is just non-consumables.

[eager solar]

Everything you need to build*

[bold elm]

Many consumables are worth automating.

[muted crypt]

High-Speed Connector, AI Limiter, and "Super Casings" are two separate items - Supercomputers and Aluminum Casings

They're on two separate lines, hence two separate items

[eager solar]

How many spheres were required for max mam upgrades?

[muted crypt]

97, I believe, of the 298 available on the map

[bold elm]

Yeah, more than ever needed.

[eager solar]

So you can store everything, even useless stuff then

[bold elm]

Should save 100 of them just to send screws to the cloud.

[muted crypt]

There's so many to avoid requiring players to get every one off the map to support everything

Does that stop people? No. It certainly didn't stop me.

Somersloops are at a much tighter limit: 106, three used for research, leaving 103 usable. Ten per alien augmenter, and 1/2/4 max capacity for machines (number based on machine type).

[wind spade]

Super = supercomputer
Casing is casing

[eager solar]

Is it better to increase stack limit or upload speed limit first? I'd lean stack if the amount of produced items/min is below the upload limit anyway

[lime siren]

I went with upload. I have "upload, if you can't then store, if you can't then sink" system. So it uploads from storage when I consume more than I produce

[muted crypt]

Two ways to view this, as there's an argument for both:

Upload speed is more important, because you can quickly pull from bulk storage when using more than you're making (like what Rothag said); you don't need a large supply if you can resupply it quickly

Stack size is more important, because the odds of using anything in massive quantities several times over without any sort of downtime is slim; you can upgrade your speed artificially by just adding more uploaders if you wanted, given how many extra spheres we have

I leaned into upload speed as a priority until I hit 60/min (two upgrades) specifically for concrete, then started alternating from there.

[eager solar]

What made you pick upload speed?

[muted crypt]

I didn't want to go out to find more spheres

Not yet, anyway.

[past reef]

i pick stack size twice then 2 upload early game

30 per min for resupplying iron plate etc and 2 stack to put the random junk on crash sites

even if you align your belts with a bunch of merger/splitter I don't think you can take more than 60 per min plate out of the depot doing that

[muted crypt]

Yeah that's why I did it specifically for concrete

[past reef]

to be fair you want the depot as soon as possible so handcrafting the fluctuator is likely, not much time loss in just getting both level 2s

[muted crypt]

I'm basically viewing it like this:

Are you willing to go look for more spheres sooner rather than later?

• YES: Upgrade stack size, and build more depots to compensate.
• NO: Upgrade upload speed, and build more production to compensate.

If you go explore just while you're waiting on buffers of resources or want downtime between projects, then probably upgrade evenly.

[eager solar]

having to compensate by building more prod seems like a pretty big downside to me, I don't reach the basic upload limit as it is and I'm fully using the raw resources

also sounds a bit conterproductive in a way, you'd need to build more prod of each items for the sake of not having to wait to build more prod

[muted crypt]

Yeah it depends on how you play Satisfactory really

There is no correct answer to the choices - which I really like - especially since you end up with all of them eventually

[eager solar]

fair

[muted crypt]

Like what I listed up above for yes/no is where my brain sits, but that's just me - it seems it's different for you, and it's good the system accounts for that

[warm wren]

🤔 I tracked down what I think was the problem with my rubber-plastic loop... but I don't know why it's "doing that"... for some reason in spite of producing precisely the exact amount of resin, the machines that use the resin don't get enough, and fall behind. I can't figure out why this is a case, but I am now producing a whole extra refinery worth of resin to compensate and then sinking the oil by product. Anyone know why producing the exact right amount isn't... working?

[eager solar]

assuming the math is correct, first things that come to mind are: faulty belt section, manifold system has yet to be fully loaded

[snow scroll]

is there a way to split 120 onto 60 unit conveyers?

[eager solar]

use a splitter?

Are you very early game?

[warm wren]

I can't see them having 120 belts without already having splitters?

[snow scroll]

kinda im at the space elevator

i have mk2 coveyers but there to expensive atm so im trying to automate the plates

[bronze kestrel]

If i need 31.667 foundry's. But i have build 3x11 (33). Each 11 have their own intake. How much do i need to underclock one of foundery's in each row ? Don't really know how to tackle this one

[eager solar]

From the miner, you need at least a small section of rip to get the ore out, then you can use a splitter to split the 120 ores into 2 mk1 belts

[snow scroll]

so i need some mk2 and then splitters into mk1 would work?

[eager solar]

yes

[snow scroll]

gotcha

[eager solar]

I would just delete one and have the 32nd one at 66.7%. if you want 33 foundries for the aesthetic, just have the 31st and 32nd at 50% or something, then the last one at .667

[bronze kestrel]

Well, never mind, Thanks ChatGTP

[bronze kestrel]

Yeah its for aesthetic. But got it, you was close

[eager solar]

I wouldn't follow chatgpt solution, no need to underclock 3 when one is enough. Higher risk of error if the true decimal is a bit different

[muted crypt]

Assuming you have a pure iron node you're wanting to split into two 60 belts, put a splitter right in front of the miner and use just two of the outputs

[bronze kestrel]

Yeah but the foundry's are fed by 3 different miners. I kinda have to underclock one in each row

[muted crypt]

Oh my internet why

[eager solar]

[granite axle]

i could be overthinking this, but how does it make sense

splitters split evenly so how does one have 75/m and the other 45/m

[true junco]

Chat GPT is an AI that is being trained to give "human like responses" which means it is being trained to be confidently wrong. Lol

[muted crypt]

A machine will only use as much as is needed, building a buffer of one stack of the item within it. When that happens, the rest will be forced the other way.

[true junco]

Once the consumer on the leg that can only use 45/min is full, the remainder goes down the other leg.

[pulsar fox]

How would i seperate a miner mining 360 into one 270 output and one 90 output?

[granite axle]

gotcha so until it's full, it'll be 45/m on both sides

[tame harbor]

When the buildings on the 45/minute side fill up thier internal buffer, then the rest of that input will go down the 75/minute side

[muted crypt]

Split into two paths, split those into two paths (total of four), merge three of them

[pulsar fox]

Ok. Thanks

[tame harbor]

Split the 360 into 2x180
Split one of the 180s into 2x90
Merge one of the 90s into the remaining 180

[eager solar]

60 on both side sind you have 120 split in 2. You can accelerate the processus by manually filling the buffer

[muted crypt]

This also works ofc

[true junco]

No. It willbe 60/min each side until the low consumer side is saturated. Then it will stabalize to the 45/75 split.

[granite axle]

oh yeah u right

[chrome atlas]

why not underclock all equally? saves a slight bit of power and also arguably easier to manage

[near lion]

Split it into two and let machines pull how much they need, which in your case will be 270 and 90

[true junco]

Use 1 splitter with 2 belts. They will split 50% each initially. Once the side that can only consume 90/min is saturated, the remainder will go to the 270 side.

[granite axle]

so should i listen the calc and keep it like that or should i add another splitter and add merger to balance it out b4 it goes into the machines?

[muted crypt]

It'll balance

[granite axle]

one machine is at 250 and one is 150, so still?

[muted crypt]

You're effectively just making part of a manifold - if you feed in at least how much the system needs, if not more, it will eventually be correct - just give it time

[granite axle]

sounds good, thanks guys

[bronze kestrel]

I don't know. I came here for answers 🙂

[eager solar]

manifolds blance themselves out, their one big downside is that the balancing time can be really long

[muted crypt]

You have three sets of 11 you said, with each 11 getting their own supply line, right?

[bronze kestrel]

Yeah

[muted crypt]

How much is on each belt

[bronze kestrel]

i'm trying to build this with T4 480/min belts

[muted crypt]

Okay, so you have three 475 belts? Or do you have 480/480/465, or some other split?

[bronze kestrel]

Something like that yeah

tried to max it out as close as i could to my belt max

Anything pas this screen is allright. This position in my buildline gets me a bit confused.

[muted crypt]

First ten foundries at 100% clock and set the eleventh to 25/min output, this supports every 475 belt

[bronze kestrel]

I was going to give each miner one row 11 foundrys. And figure out how to split, later on. Now i'm stuck haha

[muted crypt]

My internet is in pain rn

Does this help

[bronze kestrel]

Allright, that does indeed

[muted crypt]

Okay cool

[bronze kestrel]

Thanks man

[ripe abyss]

okay quick question. Are the mk.2 Pipelines still bugged?

cause i got my flowrate figured out and Limiters set up.

so i got 12 Coal Generators and 5 Water Pumps. 5x120 should be 600 and more than enough.

[vapid gorge]

they were never bugged, it was user error

[ripe abyss]

oh?

[vapid gorge]

show an overhead shot of your set up

[ripe abyss]

oh how do I do the overhead shot?

[vapid gorge]

look out tower, ladders, foudnations and ramps

but at a glance yo uhave groups of 3 extractors to mk1 pipes,

3x water extractors do 360, mk1 pipes can only do 300

[ripe abyss]

yeah i know.

[vapid gorge]

you've also got buffers thrown in which can easily mess things up

[ripe abyss]

ahhh so remove the buffers ?

[vapid gorge]

that'll be part of the solution but I can't see most of the layout

[muted crypt]

Buffers are generally not useful, from my understanding

Very few use cases (trains can be one, for example)

But just from point A to point B without some intermediate steps just don't use them

[vapid gorge]

also if you can show a more overhead shot of these areas if removing the buffers just on their own doesn't fix it

I take it you're only intending 300 water per mk1 pipe then?

[ripe abyss]

yeah. I have a mk2 pipe, that is connected to the right red circle that you made

eh wtf

[vapid gorge]

lay out is important though, and it'll be very hard to trouble shoot w/o the shots

[ripe abyss]

yeah gimme a second. Need to do multiple angles.

[eager solar]

back then, didn't they had trouble at max capacity? I remember hearing something like that long ago

[vapid gorge]

nah, it had to do with flooding and often loopign the pipe manifold

the only real bug was a actual fluid loss thing where when you loaded your save it would delete a small amount of fluid from every buffer

[ripe abyss]

I am not sure, if the headlift pupms are the issue or not. I removed the fluid buffers. On the third picture you can see, that I split the mk2 line

[vapid gorge]

ok so what you should do to test is turn off 1 gen on each manifold, let all the pipes and gens flood, then turn them back on

good trouble shooting step

[ripe abyss]

its just the mk2 pipeline. Mk1 is fine

lemme colour the mk2 pipeline in a good colour

[vapid gorge]

sure, but flooding a system is a very good test

[ripe abyss]

so purge the whole system and then flood it again?

[vapid gorge]

no need to purge, just turn off 1 gen on each problem manifold so you're overfeeding

[lone yacht]

btw why fluids so unstable?
I have precise fuel production but for some reason there's always 1 or 2 generators keep running out of fuel
what am I doing wrong

[vapid gorge]

you generally need to loop input manifolds for fluid steps

not every situation needs them but the way people build it's generally a good idea to incorperate it into designs unless you really look at how to set up systems that don't need them

[lone yacht]

thanks, ill try it

[ripe abyss]

I didnt do that.

I never knew that you need to loop input into those....

[vapid gorge]

you don't always need to but it's so very common

[topaz jetty]

See the pipeline manual in the pins very helpful

[turbid plinth]

guys I am struggling to find a guide on best yeld turbofuel, anyone can help me ?

[vapid gorge]

for example, if you were just feeding like 3 machines from 1 pipe and 1 junction? prob don't need a loop

[turbid plinth]

trying to mix blenders and get the most out of the turbo

[vapid gorge]

use a planner https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=jpwxk4CzO4D0g3aBoziJ

this is just one example

[eager solar]

What does the loop bring?

[ripe abyss]

Thats what I really wanna know. Is there a reason, why you loop it?

[turbid plinth]

this is the max max?

[vapid gorge]

@ripe abyss

ok so in a long manifold a machine can suck up fluid from the middle right?

fluid ahead in hte line might decide the space behind is more empty and flow backwards

causing a stutter. Which can just keep happening

a flooded loop gives fluid another path

[ripe abyss]

this looks fine to me now.

[vapid gorge]

without sam ore. I just plugged it up

[ripe abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/4510fan-cfd-gif-27228319

[vapid gorge]

in general also avoid buffers and valves. If a system works with them, it'll work w/o them. They can just cause complications

[ripe abyss]

Yeah now it is stable. And I have a build, that I can run now.

[turbid plinth]

7.5 oil to 10 turbofuel seems low as ratio ... donno

[eager solar]

I see, thanks then. I will make it a habit of incorporating it in my fluids setups

[vapid gorge]

depends which efficiency you want to go for

[turbid plinth]

for max max m3 per minute on turbofuel

[vapid gorge]

oil efficiency? oil > HOR > diluted fuel > base TF
reducing coal cost and importing? you want Blended Fuel

[ripe abyss]

This looks super fine now.

[turbid plinth]

thanks

[vapid gorge]

nice. Coal generator fluid systems are the most flexible of fluid systems. They'll tolerate a lot more nonsense than just about any other fluid system in the game

@long jungle overhead shots of your fluid system?

[lilac geyser]

how much fual a min does a fuel powered generator use ?

[turbid plinth]

depending on the ful

[lilac geyser]

yea fuel the normal yellow one

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch fuel

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=fuel

[snow scroll]

how do you merge 4 outputs into 1 input?

[proven spire]

2 mergers?

[snow scroll]

yea i figured it out im just dumb

now for the rotor factory XD

[amber edge]

any good way to flow control 480/480/480/160 to 400/400/400/400 with mk4 belts

[vapid gorge]

options

1. put the numbers you need on the belt in the first place
2. the easiest - just process each belt as is and merger the output as needed
3. google balancers

[ripe abyss]

Yeah they are. I can now double the output with compacted coal and thats the plan for today. We are currently redesigning the fluid system and adding some Fuel Generators too.

[amber edge]

its due to 3 pure nodes and 1 normal so i cant do 4 400 but 3 480 with 1 160

[ripe abyss]

The issue that I have at the moment is, that I dont know what to do with the excess materials created at the moment.

[vapid gorge]

ok so use each belt as is or google balancers

there were 2 other options after the first

[amber edge]

yeah ill do balancers, its to spilt up into 4 sets of 10 foundry

[ripe abyss]

We are currently doing planning for phase 8 completion.

[silver aurora]

so i am kinda runing into something where i was thinking i can mine alot with 1 minor but my belts can only push 120 is their any way around this?

[vapid gorge]

it's extremely easy to merge output after smelters w/o doing a balancer

[vapid gorge]

get better belts

[vapid gorge]

belts will be your limiter the whole game

[amber edge]

hm true i get 80 outflow after each 10 foudries i can connect them into fourth set with 160, thanks

[silver aurora]

thats what i was thinking i was like why in the world can i make 600 ore per minut but i cant move more than 120

[vapid gorge]

and remember you have the ability to clock machines. The ultimate tool to manage belt throughput

[vapid gorge]

well yo ucould use multiple belts?

it's miners that are really stuck on belt limit

after miners you can use many many belts

[amber edge]

yeah like i said i have 3 pure and 1 normal node in this location, i cant clock normal one to 400

[thorn remnant]

not related to math or anything but your the only one i trust asking questions rn cause everone is unkown in this server. but do you know why this happens #screenshots message

[vapid gorge]

no but with smelters after

[silver aurora]

how does that speed it up even though that first belt can only do 120

[amber edge]

yeah ill get 5 set of 480, just that need to do 1600 inputs with mk4 belts

doing solid steel recipe

[vapid gorge]

it looks like something was built off level so it's a bit off.

You have to listen to the UI sounds for a 'click' to know if a belt or lift is properly connected

[amber edge]

iron part is balanced with 32 refineries doing 400 with 4 belts, just that coal nodes need balancing

[thorn remnant]

but like shouldnt it just lock onto the merger? this never happened before

[granite axle]

what do the blue arrows mean?

mk2?

[thorn remnant]

thise are just belts

[vapid gorge]

Liek I said, you've likely built something not quite on the right level somehow.. like 0.5m off, which might still be able to work if you hear the click

[granite axle]

there's blue and grey ones that's why i ask

[vapid gorge]

try this tool, it's much better and doesn't give you very bad layout designs https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

pls do yourself a favor and do not use the SCIM planner layouts

[granite axle]

i use this one bc the scim planner shows where to put everything

[vapid gorge]

1st - the layouts are just terrible
2nd - you won't learn much because it jsut tells you things
3rd - what you do learn will be based off very bad plans

[vapid gorge]

yeah I highly recommend not. But I'm going to bed, so gl

[thorn remnant]

oh shi yea i see it, how did i even build 0.5m off wtflip

[indigo heath]

has anyone built a "fluid logic" system for an overabundance of a particular fluid?

[amber edge]

what kind of fluids, you can alway bottle it up and sink it if its clogging up your production

or use it in wet concrete refinery if its water, oil products just change it to rubber or plastic or something to sink it, or change it to fuel to power generatorsz

[indigo heath]

just regular fuel, i suppose i could always just burn the packaged fuel into the ticket machine (cause currently i have no use for fuel other than my jetpack, which i imagine will change eventually)

[civic terrace]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"600"%2C"Desc_RocketFuel_C"%3A"3600"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_TurboHeavyFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_RocketFuel_Nitro_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"]}
planned out a rocket fuel and turbo fuel power plant, chose to limit it based on the sulfur and nitrogen node availability in the north dune desert but this should run 943 fuel gens and make 235,750MW

[amber edge]

whats harm in putting down few fuel generators to cover that remainder? use unpackager with overflow

[indigo heath]

true, yeah, okay, thats a more elegant solution than burning it

[deft lichen]

how did you end up with unwanted fuel

[granite axle]

any1 know what the blue lines represent?

[indigo heath]

well my storage container will eventually fill with packaged fuel (and also into my inventory with the mercer spheres)

then im not burning enough fuel to not overload the system

[amber edge]

dude just do biofuel fuel for jetpack

[deft lichen]

well burning the fuel for power will net you power, that's true

[amber edge]

use the fuel for generation instead, fuel is bad for jetpack

[thorn remnant]

💀

[deft lichen]

otherwise the simple solution is to just use an overflow splitter and sink excess

yeah basic fuel is pretty bad compared to the other options

[pulsar forge]

Hi guys, has anyone already worked on creating a scheme for the production of Power Shard?

[thorn remnant]

make one yourself muhahahahha

why wait for someone else to make something whrn u can do it yourself

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production will create any scheme you want

[pulsar forge]

I've been trying to do this for an hour and a half now, but nothing good has come of it.

[thorn remnant]

keep trying

dont get scared of complexity

[sacred pilot]

finally to tier 9, and yessss so much MOAR STUFF

[vast jungle]

do you have a priority Splitter in place to make sure the DMT is not "starved" ?

still, the ratios look really difficult

[cursive heron]

priority splitter doesn't exist, just merge the dm crystals from the crystalization and matter trap into a smart splitter with overflow into sink

[amber jacinth]

Would be nice if power shards became sinkable after unlocking fabrication

[cursive heron]

if you have a rocket* plant you can turn it into packaged ionized fuel and sink that

[amber jacinth]

ahhh fair fair

Yeah that's reasonable

[deft lichen]

this is way easier than I thought

[topaz jetty]

Agreed

[vast jungle]

any expert on Blueprints here? I have a BP that I cannot paste again in the BP designer (I would like to move it a bit to have more space on one end)?

[timber belfry]

Is there a way to split things evenly 5 ways out of a storage container?

[amber jacinth]

Just because a few of my theory layouts produce shards as byproducts... which is fine, but not being able to get rid of them would eventually bite you in the butt

[cursive heron]

if you just want to make shards for personal use 2.369 / min fits into one time crystal converter

[topaz jetty]

This is very little for power shards especially 60

[cursive heron]

then shove a sloop in the quantum encoder* making shards

[wind spade]

1:5 balancer. Unless it's for 5 production machines, then a manifold will do the job just fine

[topaz jetty]

That is a lot of sloops considering there are 12 of them

[cursive heron]

#math-and-meta message

you don't really need any mass production of shards outside personal use and alien power matrix

the max augmenters you can have is 10 which is 50 alien power matrix/m or 150 shards/m

so absolute maximum people can go off of is this, extra for personal use and overflow into making packaged ionized fuel and sunk

[lone orchid]

Satisfactory calc is bugging out ... Is the best way to make rocket fuel this way :
Crude Oil --> Heavy Oil Residue --> Diluted Fuel --> Nitro Rocket Fuel ?

[cursive heron]

bbut 60 converters is still big

[cursive heron]

nitro for simplicity, turbofuel for resource efficiency

[lone orchid]

guess to reuse the compacted coal coming out

[cursive heron]

nitro takes about twice as much sulfur as using turbofuel

[lone orchid]

do you go diluted fuel or directly from heavy oil residue to turbo heavy fuel

[wind spade]

SCIM doesn't pick the "best" way

SFTools do optimise your production for raw resources

[lone orchid]

sftools ?

[wind spade]

Yeah

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[sacred pilot]

what's the internal logic? I often need to really goad it into picking the one with the fewest logistical steps

[wind spade]

SCIM or SFTools?

[sacred pilot]

yours

[main thicket]

can someone tell me what im doing wrong here? the path signals are saying the signal loops into its self

[full thunder]

nvm

[deft lichen]

don't place signals in the middle of junctions

remove this

[potent isle]

what does that 1 mean?

[main thicket]

its for another entrance

[main thicket]

it didnt work

[deft lichen]

alt scroll

[wind spade]

Weighted raw resources (e.g. if iron is three times as common as copper, then using 1 copper = using 3 iron)

[main thicket]

basically one line can enter 2 stations

[lone orchid]

I guess I should remove tier 9 alts heh

[potent isle]

?

[cursive heron]

turbo blend, it will completely remove coal from the chain and uses the least amount of sulfur for a negligible increase of oil

[deft lichen]

you have 10 hotbars, alt scroll to change between them

[uncut pine]

short question about rocketfuel: when i produce 600 Rocketfuel, i can run 143 Generators = 35750 GW right?

[potent isle]

that is genius

[deft lichen]

600/4.16666666666 = 144 (exactly)

[lone orchid]

well the recipe sftools is giving me eats 142.5 sulfur/min for 600 rocket fuel

that seems pretty good

from the 400 I had 😄

[uncut pine]

yea 400 with nitro rocket fuel, thats the recipe i want to use^^

[tame harbor]

Rocket Fuel triples the amount of power you can make out of Turbofuel

[deft lichen]

try rebuilding this track

[sacred pilot]

Just my garbage time rocket fuel would power so many generators it is ridiculous.... man

[tame harbor]

Yeah

[lone orchid]

yeah it's the one I outlined on top using diluted fuel & nitro rocket fuel

[tame harbor]

500 rocket fuel is enough for 120 generators or 20 GW

[main thicket]

i fixed i had 2 path signals in one line instead of one

[lone orchid]

need to find a good spot with oil, sulfur and nitrogen

[cursive heron]

its a trade off, resource efficiency over simplicity

[tame harbor]

I used the oil well in southern jungle

[lone orchid]

oof that's far, I'll take a look

[cursive heron]

there's also blue crater

[sacred pilot]

Honestly I started in northern forest thinking that's easiest but given the changes I built very little there in the end. Would have been better off somewhere else

so many far away things. Can't wait for teleport

[lone orchid]

same started in northern forest

[tame harbor]

Ah I started in dune desert

[lone orchid]

144 fuel gens that seems fun

[tame harbor]

I did 240

And I realized later I fucked up

And needed to build 360

[lone orchid]

isn't it 144 for 600 rocket fuel / min ?

what are you feeding 360 with, ionized ?

[tame harbor]

But I am about to start automating Power shards so I'll just overclock them

[tame harbor]

1,500 rocket fuel

[lone orchid]

of course

[tame harbor]

Turning all of that rocket fuel into ionized would cost me 93.75 power shards/minute

All that, for 38.8% more power

[jolly sparrow]

lol

[lone orchid]

144 is what can run on 600 rocket fuel 🙂

[jolly sparrow]

260 for me

[lone orchid]

260 ?

[tame harbor]

converting all of that into rocket fuel should be 468 fuel generators

1950 / 4.16667

187.2 if you stick 3 shards in each of them

[sullen heart]

how do i properly load balance these

[tame harbor]

manifold

[lone orchid]

yeah it'll self balance

[sullen heart]

i only have mk4 belts tho would that still work

[sacred pilot]

sometimes you have to build something jank temporarily and go back to clean it up when you have better belts

[lone orchid]

you could have 2 belts incoming with a splitter between both

[sacred pilot]

just bear that in mind when you build

[topaz jetty]

Where is that from?

[sullen heart]

my notes in Obsidian

[tame harbor]

oh damn, synthetic power shards only need oil/coal and quartz with the right Alt recipies

[lone orchid]

well that looks like a beautiful spot to make some rocket fuel

[sullen heart]

hijacking the alt recipe topic, is there a "good" list on what recipes you should focus and which are trash

[sullen heart]

blue crater also pretty sick for fuel production, should have everything you need

[upper arrow]

is it intended that you have no scroll wheel on hard drive scans when you have too many ?

[sullen heart]

i dont think they expected us to hoard them like that

[lone orchid]

yeah

why would you hoard so many 😄

btw do rerolls work after you unlock a milestone ?

[upper arrow]

cause idk which recipes i need so far and i went on a mercer gathering tour

[lone orchid]

like scan, complete milestone, reroll

[sullen heart]

wdym

[lone orchid]

wouldn't you have duplicates ?

[upper arrow]

no

because loot pooll is finite

[lone orchid]

yeah but if you don't pick one, it stays locked

[upper arrow]

thats why if you reroll after milestone i bet you will get new recipes

[sullen heart]

you mean if you can get recipes for the new unlocked milestone?

[lone orchid]

yes

[upper arrow]

the game will stop you from scanning new hard drives if you ran out of recipes to unlock/show

[sullen heart]

i got alt recipe for turbofuel without having the default unlocked

but idk if its technically still in the same milestone or not

nvm

insane brain lag ignore me

[north lake]

I think it generally goes by "If you can eliminate an intermediary product, utilize a resource instead of one you don't have a lot of or make a more efficient process it's good"

So for example the Turbo Heavy Fuel is a generally good Alternate recipe because it replaces the intermediary step of creating fuel with instead utilizing Heavy Oil Residue, which is a byproduct of a lot of other processes, even fuel creation, and can just leach off of that.

[muted crypt]

You don't necessarily need any of them

They're variants on how to play the game, how to approach the "puzzle" of making some product(s)

[upper arrow]

yeah
i dont need them yet thtas why i hord them and once i get to a certain part i choose

[sullen heart]

ic ic, ty
will try to keep that in mind when making my decisions

[uncut pine]

is there any SINK List for 1.0, where i can see how much Points i get for SAM?

[feral breach]

Not sure this is worth the headache or I should just make something small for bit of rubber and plactic to get me far enough to unlock blender 😄

[deft lichen]

!wikisearch awesome+sink

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=awesome+sink

[deft lichen]

tip: use multiples of 81 when working with recycled plastic/rubber

6 * 81 = 486 is the closest but that's over the mk4 limit, so 5.5 * 81 = 445.5

[sullen heart]

missing a packager no?

right there

[deft lichen]

diluted fuel not diluted packaged fuel

[small wing]

why are those two formulas different?

[sullen heart]

but then that needs the blender?

or am i missing something

[feral breach]

missclicked apparently when picking recipe

Im not doing that... 😄

[sullen heart]

yea its a bit more work

[deft lichen]

from a quick glance, looks like the first is for n that is a multiple of 3, the second is for n that's the group index (in the first column)

[feral breach]

Ill just do basic plastic and rubber factory... and then do purely fuel processing

and then once I need more than lets say 200 and 200 will probably make soem insanity 😄

pave over blue crater and create unlimited power

Is there some tried and tested combination of alts etc to make it less ... big ? 😄

[gusty edge]

The satisfactory tools isn t considering the alternate recipe I chose, is there a way to solve this bug?

[small wing]

you could disable the base recipe

[feral breach]

need to disable the base if the tool thinks the original recipe with your unlocked stuff is better

[feral breach]

why multiples of 81?

[deft lichen]

you won't get ugly repeating decimals

[deft lichen]

disable the unwanted recipe
it's not a bug, it automatically chooses the more resource-efficient option

[feral breach]

This is just making me want to leave out diluted fuel... for the time being while I only have packager 😄

[upper arrow]

is there a trick to get wall mounts for electricity on buildings or does it only work on certain buildings

[tame harbor]

480 raw Quartz and 442 coal -> 10 power shards/minute

[wind spade]

You selecting a recipe means "I have this available", not "always use this"

[gusty edge]

So I should disable the base one?

[wind spade]

Tools pick recipes to use lowest amount of resources

Yes, you can disable base recipe if ypu want to force an alt

[gusty edge]

Ok, thanks

[gusty edge]

[regal wyvern]

You can also adjust which resources you actually have, so it's forced to work with what you have

[gusty edge]

What do you mean?

[regal wyvern]

In the "Items, input" tab, you can tell it what resources you have available, or any parts incoe you have. That way, if you don't have oil nearby, it's won't use any oil recipes.

[gusty edge]

Oh, sure

[random grove]

this is fine

[gusty edge]

The heartbeats aren t normal

[upper arrow]

do people who use vanilla daisy chains make blueprints for each building or is ther another trick?

[light juniper]

is this okay? https://i.imgur.com/xDOpC1V.png

[muted crypt]

I-

Huh?

[random grove]

max overclocked quantum encodder silly things

[muted crypt]

Fantastic

[muted crypt]

I probably should but for some reason haven't if that somehow answers your question

[upper arrow]

i realised i can just make one beam which i drag accros the whole factory (of the same building and do that quickly

[silver viper]

what is the best way to calculate splitter and merger for inputs and outputs?

I used to use this (https://icemoonmagic.github.io/Satisfactory-Splitter-Calculator/) website but after a short time I think that it doesn't give you the best solutions sometimes, that save lots of space

[jolly sparrow]

MY HEAD

[muted crypt]

Are you trying to perfectly balance or do you not care if belts fill up a bit

[silver viper]

trying to perfectly balance

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[silver viper]

Yea but it won't work in my scenario where my inputs and outputs are like these

[wind spade]

It will

[silver viper]

oh yea you're right. Only problem is that i will have to wait till my splitters reach last one machine

[wind spade]

Yeah, but it's just a few minutes usually and during those it still works, just at reduced speed

[steel grove]

is satisfactory map offline rn? cant acces site

[analog frigate]

I'm looking for alt recipes, are these good? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=tIZ5EFEfjUdxUizU9h6B

[cloud pollen]

guys, which alt recipes are the best to produce HMF? I'm mostly looking at reducing the complexity

[analog frigate]

@wind spade your calculator, when selecting all alt recipes, what does it go for when selecting them? does it make it easier or goes for the most power eficiency?

[cursive heron]

uh what

nvm can still snap to it

[main thicket]

i made an aluminum factory and i used a loop for the byproduct water to go back into the system so its 180 byproduct water plus another 360 from extractors. i use valves to prevent backflow and limit the rate. what happens now is that the water fills somehow and the byproduct water stops flowing back to the system making everything crash. any tips? i added a buffer in case that fixs it

[unborn ermine]

Wow is that node still not fixed?
The one in the south west above the grasslands, between the beach and the falls?

[wind spade]

Least raw resources used

[unborn ermine]

One of these three

@cursive heron

[wind spade]

Good depends on your preferences

[analog frigate]

I'm trying to go for simplest recipes I'm on tier 9 and a bit overwhelmed by how big and all the crossing arrows this tier plans are

[fiery oyster]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[analog frigate]

D:

being a noob, my preferences is I WANT IT EZ

but dk enough to even recognice what's easy

[livid meteor]

#screenshots message
Would this work? My plan is to lay down 2 pipes which feed the next refineries for the aluminium scrap production.
Since MK2 is limtied to 600m³/min and I produce a total of 1200m³/m I was hoping that the fluids would balance themselve out

[heavy mountain]

Solid Steel is a must. Encased Pipe. Steeled Modular frame, Heavy Encase Frame. Wet concrete etc. It makes it more complicated, but saves on resources allowing you go the extra mile for HMF production. I probably missed a few.

[tame harbor]

so wait, is that 600m/s of alumina input or output in there?

[livid meteor]

5x Sloppy Alumina is 5x 240m³output per minute

[tame harbor]

then that single output pipe wouldn't work

[livid meteor]

My Idea is to basically put a junktion in the middle and hope that I can grab 600m³from that junktion

It's 2. The main "bus" pipe and the one that siphons from it

[wind spade]

What's wrong with it?

[silver aurora]

so i started up my first big build outside of making small factorys everywhere lol, and i was wondering is it better to run from smelter straight into constructor or merge them back together and send them through a line of constructures?

[tame harbor]

oh so both are going to the left?

might not work. but adding Valves set to 120 m^3 each at the red arrows then having a pipe go from the blue circled junction will

[livid meteor]

Sorry, I'm dumb that's the input

I wanted that to be the output tho

[wind spade]

Depends on ratios

[livid meteor]

Would that setup work if it was the output

[tame harbor]

if you want input then do this, red lines being the input

[tame harbor]

for output do this

[livid meteor]

But shouldn't it also work as input setup? If each pipe would contain 600m³ water? (I know that's too much anyway)

[tame harbor]

might clog up

[livid meteor]

That was my planned input

But I f'd up on the inputs lol

I need to make a switch

Thing is, I somehow need to manage to get these 1200 solution to the next refineries to create the scrap

[tame harbor]

this setup will work

it works when making coal plants early game

[silver aurora]

how so I did make it expandable and currently runing mk2 miner into mk3 belts so only runing at 270 ore per minute out of the belts so runing 18 smelters off 2 minor ( will prob split tracks again for each minor to expand later on aswell)

[rocky grotto]

Anyone have a chart of the best alt recipes?

[analog frigate]

I'm using this, but I have no idea
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fekus9/alternate_recipe_ranking_10_optimizing_for/

[wind spade]

There are no "best" recipes

[charred delta]

Ik yall are better then me. How would I get this thing running if I want to put it up near the miners?

[wind spade]

Highly recommend to NOT follow any analysis blindly

[livid meteor]

what is the transfer rate of the fastest belts?

[silver aurora]

yeah like i turned alot of my recipe into the ones that use iron but thats not nessecarly the best ones its just how i wanted to run my factory.

like i use iron for wire but if you use the yello stuff you get a ton more

[wind spade]

There's no best

[analog frigate]

there's bad ones?

[silver aurora]

so just depends on how your set up is and what works for you

[wind spade]

No

All are situational

[urban kite]

maybe there used to be bad ones but they have done a lot of work to make basically all of them tradeoffs

(except oil recipes, oil alts go hard and are op. But they do take a bunch of space)

[wind spade]

Last really bad one was in U2

[analog frigate]

I really dont know what to aim for when choosing one recipe over another

[urban kite]

There are enough hard drives to get all of them. Early game, taking recipes that make things less complex can be nice

[wind spade]

See #math-and-meta message

[urban kite]

(screwless heavy frames, my beloved)

[analog frigate]

I mean even if I unlock all of them I won't know which one to use

[urban kite]

Some take more space, some take more materials, some take more power, some take different materials. It's up to the location you pick, how much building you wanna do, etc

[analog frigate]

I'm really liking packaged fuel so I'll try to get the mixed fuel for the blender and might combine it with heavy oil residue

[wind spade]

Based on product, location and preferences

[analog frigate]

or maybe I should try to unlock nuclear asap, what happens with the nuclear residue?

[urban kite]

Heavy oil residue and diluted fuel is very sexy

[patent briar]

The couple big recipes that truly are a big deal are the turbo fuel loops to substantially boost oil efficiency.

• Recycled rubber
• Recycled Plastic
• Turbofuel

Abd there's a fourth needed, can't remember it's name, but the set of 4 let's you create an incredibly efficient pseudo closed loop for producing anything the uses fuel, plastic, or rubber

[patent briar]

Diluted fuel, that's the other one iirc

[urban kite]

I think you need heavy oil residue too then, that's not a base recipe eigt

[patent briar]

That's right, iirc

[urban kite]

I agree the oil alts are probably the most synergistic, and thus have the most impact. Generally

[patent briar]

The recipes effectively let you setup a zero waste oil system to produce whatever you want as the output

[lusty tinsel]

Do you want faster productions later down the manifold if its shared with slower production? (i.e. 5 constructors making rods, 2 constructors making plates, both with a manifolded iron ingot input)

[urban kite]

if you dont care about time, and have enough input, it doesnt matter 🙂 🙂

y6t5r

[patent briar]

As long as your total consumption off the manifold is <= input, it's all good

[lusty tinsel]

my manifold setup isnt stablizing and im not sure why, i have 120 ingots in as required by all 7 cosntructors manifolded correctly : /

[wind spade]

Always works, no matter the input

[urban kite]

some recipes take a long time to stabilize

[patent briar]

Well if you try and pull more than input then your last constructors on the manifold will "starve" cuz your demand > supply

[analog frigate]

turbo heavy fuel?

[lusty tinsel]

if i force the blockage where appropriate can i speed up the stablization?

[patent briar]

That sounds right

[wind spade]

But that's not because of the manifold

[patent briar]

For sure, applies the same to splitting

[urban kite]

yeah if you handfill the constructors with ingots

[patent briar]

I just don't worry about it, by the time I've made progress on the next step of my factory, the manifolds have started to balance on the prior step

I try and avoid manifolding on power though, I prefer even balancer splitting input to power cuz if I have to power cycle it starts up smoother and I have way less of a ramp up time

IE I avoid manifolding coal into coal plants, etc

[urban kite]

but in that case cant you just priority power switch the whole power plant so it never goes offline

[unborn ermine]

What I like to do is setup a sink at the end of a step, and let it run as I go

[analog frigate]

why recylced rubber and plastic? seems to consume fuel

[patent briar]

Yeah but if you brown out and have to power cycle to bootstrap, a manifold takes awhile to re-stabilize, whereas a balanced splitter re-stabilizes very fast

[wind spade]

Most plastic/rubber per oil

[urban kite]

if my power goes down im deleting the save

[patent briar]

You can do a cool feedback loop with em

[analog frigate]

thanks

[patent briar]

Where you pipe the extra of one into the other and vise versa

[remote ice]

huh, interesting. So heavy encased frame is just like, objectively, 100% absolute a upgrade

[wind spade]

No

[livid meteor]

Since silica/quartz is kinda scarce, what's the best use for it? Is it a waste for aluminum Ingots? I thought about just producing them raw via pure aluminum ingots. I could use silica tho. But I'm not sure if it would be a waste

[remote ice]

i'm not seeing how it's worse, though?

[patent briar]

I forget exactly what the loop looks like but you can see it on planner if you request plastic or rubber and have all recipes enabled, it'll make the loop for you

[wind spade]

You're following a subjective opinionated ranking

[analog frigate]

dk it's quite plain upgrade

[muted crypt]

This is nice, yeah

[wind spade]

It uses different resources

[patent briar]

I will say anything that eliminates screws is ❤️

Purely cuz screws require such a huge footprint to produce for any recipe

[remote ice]

heavy encased frame has a higher production rate, requires less of all 3 ingredients, and that extra concrete it needs? Is less than the 5 extra beams you would need

[unborn ermine]

Keep in mind chat, greeny functions like a chat bot
You have to feed the right input prompts to get a proper discussion.

[remote ice]

going with the default recipe would require 5 more encased beams, which would require at least 25 concrete

how is this recipe not just a straight upgrade?

[patent briar]

IIRC the downside to heavy encased frame is power(?)

[remote ice]

it produces faster, though

[urban kite]

i was under the assumption they did not have any "strictly better" upgrades so i would be surprised if it was

[muted crypt]

greeny's "best" is not your "best" and it's important for everyone to start recognizing that I think

[analog frigate]

default is 5 less encased beams

[remote ice]

heavy encased makes 3.

[muted crypt]

one person here values cutting out screws

another values minimal resource consumption

etc

[remote ice]

oh whoops, wrong person

[patent briar]

Yeah tradeoff to HEF is removing screws which is ❤️

[wind spade]

Doesn't use screws, if you want to use sxrews, you want to use default

[patent briar]

Screws tradeoff "less power but like 3x bigger footprint cuz you need a morbillion constructors" lol

[muted crypt]

Unless you use other recipes to make said screws

steel screw comes to mind

[remote ice]

3 heavy frames (default): 15 frames, 60 steel pipes, 15 beams, 360 screws
3 heavy frames (encased): 8 frames, 48 steel pipes, 10 beams, 22 concrete

note, making those 5 extra encased beams? Would cost a minimum of 25 concrete.

[wind spade]

You need less than 1 per hmf manu

[muted crypt]

8 frames for 3 encased

[remote ice]

oh my bad

the point stands though, its a objective upgrade. I don't see any criteria by which it's worse. If you just want to use up screws for no reason you can use a awesome sink

[patent briar]

I hate screws cuz their max throughput on trains is garbage with respect to how much you need per recipe

I mostly evaluate stuff in "what % of a stack is needed per"

[wind spade]

If it uses different resources, it can't be "objective"

[muted crypt]

Also if you get the encased industrial pipe and steeled frame recipes you cut down even further

I know we are viewing in a vacuum but still

[patent briar]

Cuz if something uses like 1/4 stack per recipe, it's throughput on trains sucks

[remote ice]

it does not use different resources, it just nixes one of the ingredients.

[wind spade]

Then you're looking at recipe paths, not just A vs B recipe

[remote ice]

yes, i am also looking at the encased beam recipe. I don't think this is unreasonable

[analog frigate]

is anybody using blueprints? can't seem to find good ones

[wind spade]

Also numbers on HEF are super weird

[remote ice]

its less "a recipe path" and more "take some of the ingredient from the immediate precursor and just feed it to the recipe itself"

[patent briar]

I'm thinking about my approach to making another attempt at sky cityblock build

Blueprints will speed it up a tonne

[oblique hollow]

i blueprint all sorts of repetetive stuff

[patent briar]

But I need to go back to the drawing board on designing the intersections for my city blocks trains

[remote ice]

weird how?

[noble timber]

There's some blueprints on the SCIM that you can download iirc

[patent briar]

Or, do I consider using trucks or something instead, as they have higher max throughput than trains

[wind spade]

2.8125/min

[oblique hollow]

45 / 16

[analog frigate]

oh yeah, me too, like smelters on a line, but I mean like full factories

[sand epoch]

Why would ypu transport screws anyway? Transport rods and make the screws as needed

[oblique hollow]

no full factories isnt a great deal tbh

[remote ice]

... okay, yes, i suppose if a vital recipe criteria is that you need round numbers everywhere then you are free to pay ~20% more resources for the default recipe

[patent briar]

I value it based on how I like to setup my factory, it's personal and subjective though, I acknowledge that

[remote ice]

look, you can always make up a criteria by which some alt recipe is worse. I can say that alt recipes are all worse because my critera is default recipes are the best. I can say this alt recipe is worse because my criteria is i want to spend as many resources as possible.

[analog frigate]

yeah but there doesn't seem to have many for 1.0, the only one I found for super computer is one which requires to edit gamefile

[remote ice]

whenever someone says "this alt recipe is the best" it's implicit that they're using sane criteria that 99% of players would use, such as resource input, speed, power used, build changes, etc

[oblique hollow]

all recipes are bad because they make you do stuff

[patent briar]

My endgame setup I wanna try again is a giant floating cityblock sky setup, with city "blocks" and a grid of train intersections, and every "block" has 1 factory that handles making only 1 thing per step

[remote ice]

by sane criteria this is a upgrade.

most alt recipes are a sidegrade, this one is not.

[patent briar]

My last attempt I didn't plan out my train stations we'll enough, my intersections didn't have enough room for the on/off ramps for each station

[wind spade]

By ignoring properties you don't care about, you make it not objective

[remote ice]

nothing is objective, we made concepts up. bam philosophy ended

woe is all, we live in a universe of subjective pointlessness. Anyway lets go build a factory

[patent briar]

You can apply and agree on an axiom to make it objective

Without that, it's subjective

[noble timber]

Multiplying HEF by multiples of 4 gives much nicer numbers

[oblique hollow]

HFF my beloved
It is good because fast

[remote ice]

at the end of the day i don't know what situation you would look a newbie in the face and say "use HMF instead of HEF"

[oblique hollow]

noobies are terribly afraid of decimals and will cry if met with one ||/j||

[muted crypt]

So not that I'm saying heavy encased frames are better, but it uses fewer machines on all but manufacturers (equal count) and lower amounts of every resource involved

So, uh

[remote ice]

if someone asks if HEF is better, the answer is yes. I am not going to assume they're a moon person who is optimizing for not running a belt a foundation over from their heavy encased beam factory

[noble timber]

Other than the odd numbers, HEF is better in every way

[muted crypt]

I had a message written up and then tried to put # in front of one line as a header of sorts and automod didn't like that

[remote ice]

cries in overclocking

[unborn ermine]

When you think about the funky numbers for the recipe... its perfect for a system that pulls off excess materials for a sink/storage system.

[oblique hollow]

they will now cry even harder

[patent briar]

Yall don't underclock machines to perfectly hit ratios and reduce power spikes?

[remote ice]

i overclock everything

[noble timber]

I do because green lights cool

[remote ice]

fuck my power plants wait why is my breaker tripping

[patent briar]

I underclock cuz it just requires building 1 additional machine on my manifold and zero power shards

[noble timber]

However power spikes are a non-issue as later in the game you will never have consistant power consumption

[oblique hollow]

HEF is a sour-sweet deal for noobies
plus: no screws, yippie
minus: spooky decimal numbers

[remote ice]

honestly power spikes are a non issue as soon as you build some battery buffers

[unborn ermine]

I laugh at this thinking now, at least the shard part since we have sloops

[remote ice]

or power storages, i mean

[patent briar]

It still makes it easier to estimate power consumption if its more stable

[remote ice]

fair

[oblique hollow]

Meanwhile Tier 9:

[unborn ermine]

I hit ~1000 power shards in storage because I explore too much

[remote ice]

the real resource we paid for Tier 9 is a flat power graph

[oblique hollow]

Converter my beloved
📈 📉 📈 📉

Encoders are funny too

[muted crypt]

Assuming all default recipes except for the HMF recipes to make three per minute,

Heavy Modular Frame uses

270 Coal, 720 Iron, 270 Limestone
and requires
15 Smelter, 52 Constructor, 16 Assembler, 6 Foundry, 2 Manufacturer

Heavy Encased Frame uses

174 Coal (-96), 366 Iron (-354), 246 Limestone (-24)
and requires
7 Smelter (-8), 24 Constructor (-28), 9 Assembler (-7), 4 Foundry (-2), 2 Manufacturer (=)

source: the calculator of the individual who says the default recipe is better

[oblique hollow]

They all have their unique signature power usage patterns

[muted crypt]

Anyway I'm going back to working on aluminum

[analog frigate]

I would like to play this game by just creating factories for whatever I want and somehow having a report of current production/consumption and maybe some way to track distribution with trains too, there's some mod which might help me do this?

usually I just play these games by doing a main belt where I can see what I need to produce more of but not sure if I should do that here

[steel grove]

how do i do this to make a certain amount go to there n another to somewhere else?

[unborn ermine]

Manifold

[noble timber]

HEF uses about 30% less resources when you weight them to their availability around the map

[steel grove]

how bro

[remote ice]

HEF just uses less resources period, you don't even have to weigh it

[muted crypt]

If you split into two belts that are close enough it'll balance out to be enough later

[fierce cypress]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[patent briar]

Manifold across the machines and clock them to use the precise amount

[muted crypt]

Hence why I went through the effort of getting numbers

[remote ice]

all 3 main ingredients of HEF are lesser per-output, it uses no screws, and while it does add concrete cost, you can just pipe over the concrete that would've gone into another 5 encased beams.

[oblique hollow]

Accelerator: Sawtooth wave
Converter: Triangle wave / sine-ish
Encoder: square noise

[muted crypt]

It doesn't add concrete it's still a net negative on limestone compared to default lol

[noble timber]

I missread your point in that message 😂

[oblique hollow]

imo HEF should use more concrete

[unborn ermine]

Or another thing for this, start by using a smart splitter and have one output be overflow.

[remote ice]

that's what i mean, the recipe itself uses concrete but you would spend more concrete making those beams

so its a net saving

[muted crypt]

ah yeah

It's like 8 limestone per frame when you compare so it's not a lot but still

[patent briar]

In that above graph I would have 4x smelters all clocked to be 3.75/4, and then 4 Foundries clocked to be 3.278/4

And manifold all 8 in a line

[muted crypt]

The iron being cut almost in half and iron being cut by over a third are the more significant parts

er, iron and coal, respectively

I'm tired

[frosty owl]

I haven't ran the numbers, but there might be an interesting point to be made about that accounting for the (new) alt recipe that allows to ||make Steel beams with steel and concrete|| which increases the output of Beams by x1.5 for the same steel ingots (albeit with a quite high consumption of ||concrete||).
So, using the steel beams recipe for HMFs may lead to using less steel with the right alts

[muted crypt]

It cuts out steel usage doesn't it? It's like 24 ingots -> 9 beams

[remote ice]

sorry to say, but alt recipes being a sidegrade is axiomatic, so by definition it's a sidegrade not a upgrade even if it uses less resources, power, and buildings.
(/s)

[muted crypt]

Also hello long time no see friend

[frosty owl]

Compared to 24->6 with the normal recipe, yes

[muted crypt]

oh yeah true

[patent briar]

Seriously considering not using trains purely to make all the math way simpler

[muted crypt]

But yeah we were looking in a vacuum for the HMF vs HEF

[patent briar]

Trains blocking input makes the math so much more difficult @-@;

Even more complicated with fluids

[remote ice]

honestly i haven't used trains even once in my save and i am tempted to stick with that. Running long belts is way less trouble than i thought it would be

[patent briar]

I want to have city blocks I transport materials between as supply/demand, each block handles only 1 task

[noble timber]

I love fluid trains

[patent briar]

Trains are easier to route on a complicated network, but the math on their true throughput is a headache cuz they block input

And the fact fluids have a "ramp" time

[noble timber]

There's formulae on the wiki for calculating train throughput

[patent briar]

I have a whole Google sheet for it

[frosty owl]

Eh, I just assume each freight station can move 1.5x what my fastest belt can move. I know they can do more, but with that much I have enough leeway not to care about needing to time trains

[muted crypt]

The urge to set up a massive global rail network but never actually do anything with it is really high for me

[remote ice]

i just think it would be really funny to make a megabase which uses belts exclusively

[patent briar]

Trains move less than the same belts

[remote ice]

i even have a idea in my head for how i could organize belt transport from all the ore nodes

[patent briar]

Though 1 train moves more than 1 belt

[muted crypt]

I assume 1560 is actually total belt input speed

[patent briar]

But if you have 8 belts into a train, it moves less than 8 belts would

[muted crypt]

Given, well, you know

[patent briar]

It's also functional of item stack size for trains

[noble timber]

Just add more carriages

[patent briar]

Doesn't change max throughput

[analog frigate]

instead of building a whole factory from ore to final product I would like to play this game by just creating big factories for whatever I need and somehow having a report of current production/consumption, maybe some way to track distribution with trains too,
there's any mod which might help me do this? usually I just play these games by doing a main belt where I can see what I need to produce more of but I don't think a main belt would work here

[patent briar]

The problem stems from the fact trains block input while loading/unloading

[noble timber]

Well yeah, that's limited by your belts.

[remote ice]

i think this might be outdated, 1560 sounds like the prior fastest belt speed multiplied by two

[patent briar]

And item stack size

[frosty owl]

That's why I think of them as x1.5 instead of x2 ^^
Iirc one can go up to ~x1.8 or x1.9, but then the timing of the trains becomes quite important

[muted crypt]

Precisely why I was noting it should be substituted by what I said

[patent briar]

Higher item stack size has higher max throughput on trains

[remote ice]

oh my bad

[muted crypt]

Since you could in theory do mixed belts, for some gods-forsaken reason, and that'd work too

Why would you? Idk, people do weird shit

[patent briar]

If you want to not get gaps in production though, you have to actually math the true throughput of the train station, so I have a whole Google sheet for it

[green talon]

I have mixed belts all over

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

@analog frigate Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @frosty owl

[patent briar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cv96HNz-XQLmojrBUkHjF6e6vGg8pDYXwipEftFYV9w/edit?usp=drivesdk

[noble timber]

My previous world had literally everything ran through trains, including a maxed out nuclear setup, and not once did I do any sort of math on my trains and everything ran fine.

If you were moving literal thousands of an item(s) a minute through a single train then maybe you would have to do some maths then but otherwise it's fairly easy to guess what you need

[frosty owl]

My reaction, at the cusp of T4 using only trucks often moving 270x2 (max belt tier aviable):

[noble timber]

I've started using trucks for the first time ever and I am loving them

[patent briar]

For example, with mk6 belts, max throughput per belt into stations is, for each stack size:

50 -> 706.55/min
100 -> 889.35/min
200 -> 1021.55/min
500 -> 1121.62/min

[noble timber]

Trains are still my favourite though 😇

[urban kite]

mk7?

[patent briar]

Sorry mk6

[frosty owl]

The driving tends to annoy me quite some...
But aside from that, the throughput is quite damn nice

[noble timber]

Again, just add more stations.

[urban kite]

if you just buffer outputs and dont put more than a full belt in, its fine?

[noble timber]

Or run multiple trains on the same loop

[patent briar]

That's with mandatory buffers

[frosty owl]

Aand the mention of MK6 belts is my que to leave (spoiler territory for me)

[patent briar]

The problem is true max throughput is functional of item stack size

Higher stack size results in higher uptime on the belts (more items per wagon)

[noble timber]

Stations have 2 inputs so you can still run a full belt provided you have a buffer

[urban kite]

sorry i meant two full belts

[sharp verge]

what am i not understanding about fluids because the gens further back isnt getting any fuel. do i just need to wait for it to fill up more or what?

[oblique hollow]

how long has this been running

[patent briar]

IE for extreme case, stack size of 1, can only do up to 34.43 items/min per belt into a train

[sharp verge]

only a few mins rn

[oblique hollow]

and how much turbofuell does it make

[patent briar]

(Which is 68.86 per wagon)

[sharp verge]

300

[oblique hollow]

You gotta wait like at least a few hours before this is all filled then lol

[sharp verge]

300/7.5=40 gens right?

[oblique hollow]

ye thats fine

[sharp verge]

aight, will do

cuz the pipe line its self isnt a problem right?

[noble timber]

That's the one I was looking for

[patent briar]

Basically you end up having to do complicated math for each train stations "true" throughput after subtracting loading downtime, and since it's functional of stack size you have to memorize it for each stack size, assuming you use max belt tier everywhere

[patent briar]

This is actually false in practice

[noble timber]

How so?

[patent briar]

It's a simplified formula and close

[muted crypt]

Round trip includes the load/unload time, no?

[patent briar]

Like I said the true max values are what I outlined above for the common stack sizes

Bigger stack size -> higher max throughput

[noble timber]

Yes

[patent briar]

Lower stack size -> lower max throughput

[noble timber]

And this formula returns the # of stacks per minute

[patent briar]

Trains are quite complicated in practice, at the tradeoff of no fuel needed nor recording a route needed

[noble timber]

If you want to complicate them then they can get super complicated

[patent briar]

If they simply just removed trains blocking input during load/unload the math would become way way easier

[noble timber]

But I go back to this

[patent briar]

But the blocking input stuff really complicates the math

[magic island]

stack size only really comes into play for train-car throughput

station throughput is usually where the bottleneck is

[remote ice]

you could also turn it off for a few minutes so that the generators aren't using fuel

[upbeat tide]

Thats why I likw to put ISC's on the input and output of train stations to help lessen throughput interruption

[remote ice]

... although im not actually sure how to do that, you'd have to trip the breaker. Just cutting the line wouldn't do it

[patent briar]

Trains have a max size overall and unless you wanna figure out how to make trains 20 cars long, you'll find there are indeed true upper limits of what a station can throughput

[carmine iron]

The particle accelerator eat power

[noble timber]

Your train calculations don't need to be perfect. All you need is a rough idea of what you need to move and then slightly overbuild the size of your train to ensure that nothing clogs. Simple.

[remote ice]

hongry

[sharp verge]

i cant be botherd since i have to turn of each one manually. to much work

[patent briar]

How do you math the minimum cars needed? :p

[noble timber]

.

#Carriages = (Throughput (Stacks /min) . Round Trip Time (minutes))/Storage Capacity (in stacks)

[mental patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/dffg-gif-25256317

[remote ice]

if you could disconnect them from the main power grid and trip the breaker on the generator's side that would also work, but i don't know a convenient way to do that

[patent briar]

Let's say you have 800 items/min coming in, stack size of 50.

How many cars do you need to satisfy that throughput

[upbeat tide]

My setup has always been simple. If im sending lets say 1200 iron ore by train id devide it into two groups of 600 a min train cars with buffers

[carmine iron]

Yummy

[fierce ruin]

how many train cars can you fit on one engine

i ran out of resources before i found out

[remote ice]

depends on the slope, right?

[muted crypt]

Slope dependent yeah

[upbeat tide]

I think safe limit is 1:4 ratio

[fierce ruin]

i fit 50+ on this train i think

[patent briar]

As that example, mk6 belts cap at 1021.55/min per belt, or 2043.11/car, on items with stack size of 200

[fierce ruin]

was bored

[upbeat tide]

But I always put a tariling loco as well

[noble timber]

If you track is flat you will probably never hit the limit but your train will accelerate incredibly slowly

[fierce ruin]

it accelerates at a decent rate actually

[patent briar]

So 1 car will be enough to handle 1200 ore/min iirc, or does ore stack to 500? It's 200 right?

I think so

[noble timber]

Ore is 100?

[upbeat tide]

Ore is 100

[patent briar]

At 100 let's see

[upbeat tide]

Screws, wire, etc is 500

[noble timber]

I don't see the point in this maths though

Just over complicating things for no reason

[patent briar]

Stack size of 100 caps at 889.35/min per belt, or, 1778.69/min per car

[upbeat tide]

Thats why I said my approach has always been simply to split the load onto two cars

[oblique hollow]

Math vs "try and see"

[patent briar]

So 1 car still can handle 1200 ore/min

[noble timber]

Not even a try and see, just do the simple formula above and then add an additional car or 2

[warm raptor]

I've always figured out trains by, is the outputting station backing up? If so, add another cargo terminal and lengthen the train.

[upbeat tide]

Honestly if you want to get THAT granular your forgetting half the equation. Travel and load/unload time

[patent briar]

Mate...

It's Satisfactory lol

[warm raptor]

If the outputting station is empty or holding steady- you have enough freight cars.

[patent briar]

That includes that

[ashen girder]

Math vs Science. 😁

[patent briar]

Travel time doesn't matter

Travel time is solved by just adding more trains. (Not more cars but more seperate trains as needed)

The numbers I'm supplying are due to the load/unload time

[upbeat tide]

Simple counter to that. Buffer the inputs and outputs

[warm raptor]

This, ultimately it is only the I/O capacity of the system that matters once everything is up and running. I/O can be increased by more cars/station, or more trains to shorten the frequency. Regardless it is still I/O at the end of the day.

[patent briar]

Max throughput per belt is fixed exact static number based on only 2 things

1. Item stack size
2. Belt tier

And that's it

[noble timber]

Well it does because you will never reach these max throughput numbers that you are calculating

[patent briar]

Assuming top tier belt always to maximize throughput, then all the remains as a variable is purely item stack size

[patent briar]

You can, just build enough trains

Usually 2-3 trains for a short run, 3-4 for a long one, is plenty, maybe 5 for a super long run

Depends on item stack size

[patent briar]

Bigger stack size needs less trains, small stack size needs more trains

[fierce ruin]

thats the front and back

[warm raptor]

Well, track length/number of cars/number of trains still matters. If the train is too short, or takes too long to do the loop, then yes. The train on the rail is just a modifiable belt really.

[noble timber]

Exactly. At the end of the day it always come down to just adding more trains or cars. There is no point in wasting your time working out the exact throughput of each station.

[patent briar]

Also assuming a proper loop. If you do a reversing train on 1 line then it's all just fucked.

Don't do that imo :c

[patent briar]

Some of us like to plan it in advance :p

It's nice having the confidence of "I need exactly this train size for this route, no bigger, no smaller" precisely

[noble timber]

You can find that out with this equation I posted above though

[patent briar]

"I'm outputting x items per min at y stack size, I need precisely 4 cars for that"

[upbeat tide]

Once I get to mk6 belts myself my plan is to get a max 12,300 a min alum ingot factory running again

[noble timber]

Usually you will get some decimal - 10.32 cars for example - and you just build 11

[patent briar]

Not at all

If the formula doesn't include stack size, its already wrong

[noble timber]

The formula gives you stacks/min or you can convert the units into items/min, it's up to you.

[warm raptor]

I've done reversing lines only where I wanted to move one thing, not connected to anything else, not sharing any track etc, and I wanted to move it more than about 1km, worked fine.

[patent briar]

Ask yourself, how many cars are needed to handle the bandwidth for 1000 items/min if it's say, a stack size of 25.

Assuming mk6 belts.

[noble timber]

It's what I have done ever since trains were added and I have never ran into a throughput problem

[patent briar]

Can you plan ahead of time exactly needed cars?

[ancient hinge]

I dont really know wich alts are better and wich worse, IDK wich one to pick, I dont want to use silica, but I dont want to use iron too so... and rescan is one for game or one per hard drive?

[noble timber]

If you have a trip time then you can, yes.

[patent briar]

Doesn't matter

You can build multiple trains on the route

Trip time cancels out

[warm blade]

Hi fellow Min-Maxers, I guess a lot of you went deep on Satisfactory

[patent briar]

Only variables that matters is item stack size and belt tier

[delicate chasm]

Platforms cease to take in items while loading, so adding more trains affects the number of items being loaded in between the first train's round trips, don't forget.

[warm blade]

If some player with deep knowladge would have a few minutes and help me weth feedback on this
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66eef2a6772a987f4a8c6013

[patent briar]

You always should set to, "wait for full" "wait for empty" to make this constant

[warm blade]

not sure how acurate I am or if the game has more coordinate systems in general (or if they have different names)

It was all guesswork on my part

[noble timber]

Could this not cause trains clogging up on your line?

[patent briar]

The foal is your loading station should have a train waiting to load before the station finishes filling, then you'll always be at max throughput

[patent briar]

It shouldn't

[delicate chasm]

That's awful and not meant to be used for lines with multiple trains, but rather, bidi rail systems.

[patent briar]

You've made too many trains then

[patent briar]

Nope, it's the way you maximize throughput

If you dont use "wait for full" your throughput becomes way worse

Way way worse

Like upwards to a 40% penalty or worse

[delicate chasm]

It stops loading when it is full, and does its animation while continuing to not load. Throughput is lowered, and to achieve the same total item throughput requires that you use more platforms.

If you want to maximize throughput, it's 1 train per loading station, and the buffers are split between enough platforms to completely empty the storages.

[patent briar]

You're goal is to hit the rock bottom minimum time that the belts are stopped

[noble timber]

I’m glad someone here has the same philosophy I do

[patent briar]

If you don't use "wait for full" you'll always be pausing belts above the bare minimum, which means less throughput

[delicate chasm]

It's not philosophy. It's just a consequence of the platforms ceasing to take in items while loading.

[patent briar]

"Wait for full" ensures belts pause for the absolute minimum time

[delicate chasm]

If you have buffers and they are empty, you did not lose any throughput.

[main thicket]

any idea how to fix this? it says block has conflicting entry signal types

[patent briar]

If that happens you've over-engineered your train size

[noble timber]

You need to make sure all the signals entering the block are the same type

[delicate chasm]

Not necessarily. What if they are only empty for 1 second as the train pulls in to dock?

[patent briar]

You could've optimized and had a smaller train

[oblique hollow]

well one of them is a path signal
you cannot mix signal entrances

[main thicket]

ill redo it

[delicate chasm]

Then it's actually perfect. =p Unlike any system using wait fil full.

[patent briar]

How'd you achieve that on purpose, mathematically

As opposed to via trial and error

[stuck thunder]

is there a more up to date version of https://satisfactory-calculator.com?

[delicate chasm]

Some folks did a deep dive on what the actual throughput numbers are for platforms when calculating trip time, and at what point you need to split. It's a curve with a few specific intersections that have dropoffs to throughput.

It's in the history for this channel. Let me see if I can search it up.

[patent briar]

Trip time shouldn't matter if you engineer the stations well

[noble timber]

Trip time is the number 1 factor in throughput (other than the belts)

[patent briar]

It shouldn't be

[delicate chasm]

It matters because the platforms stop taking in items while the loading animation plays, so each belt brings in fewer total items if you have a shorter trip.

[oblique hollow]

no but theres https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production
for production math

[patent briar]

It's not hard to grok.

Mk5 belts max throughout doesn't change no matter how long the belt is.

Whether it's going 1ft or 1 mile, a mk5 belt is the same max throughout.

[stuck thunder]

that thing sucks

[oblique hollow]

huh? why