math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

see - it's that sort of thing I flame Satiscalc for - let people manage their logistics on their own, just give them the numbers you need

like, they need to be able to know (using your truck example) that the volume exceeds 2 belts input

[last matrix]

it is only useful if it exclusively appears for recipe sets for which a deadlock is a realistic risk, which is the condition I asked about

[wind spade]

this makes it possible to reuse byproducts nicely, optimise the production at the same time, etc.

[fallow vector]

isn't that flow rate not infinite loops?

[last matrix]

my tool does not at all go into the internal factory logistics

[wind spade]

it's how Tools work anyway 🤷‍♂️

[royal yacht]

then just check if, once given the data, the recipes recurse in the isolated set, and then if there is a recursion you can add a warning

[last matrix]

it is primarily a programmatic version of some excel spreadsheets I made

[vapid gorge]

it does if it tries to warn them of truck throughput? because you can jsut add another station and more trucks

[last matrix]

for tuning recipe counts to use resources (including intermediates) efficiently

[last matrix]

the way I have it written you would add that as a second independent "external input supply"

[royal yacht]

I fail to see how your tool would/will be any more efficient than just using one like greeny's and seeing that if there's a loop anywhere inside it there's a deadlock issue

[last matrix]

rather than just one with twice the amount

[vapid gorge]

what?

[last matrix]

"just add another station for more throughput" would be modelled in the tool as two truck inputs whose throughput sums to the desired value, not one truck input with a too-large value

anwyay that is largely tangential

[last matrix]

as I said the primary purpose of the tool is for number balancing

[vapid gorge]

but why even talk about how many trucks at all if "my tool does not at all go into the internal factory logistics"

[last matrix]

but having made these kinds of mistakes several times in the last months I have realized the value of the warnings

and it feels awful to build a giant factory and only then remember you forgot to account for eg the throughput of a truck station and now need to redesign half of it

[royal yacht]

same difference. Something like greeny's tool, balance the numbers however you wish, if there's a loop anywhere (programmatically easy to check) there's a deadlock issue

[last matrix]

that was just an example warning

[royal yacht]

like this is more of a generic graph theory issue than a specific satisfactory issue from what I'm understanding

[fallow vector]

I just solve the infinite series 😛

[vapid gorge]

This isn't any different than jsut warning someone they may need more than 1 belt for X ppm

[last matrix]

I am not asking about the code implementation

[royal yacht]

neither was I, graph theory is mathematics not code

[last matrix]

but was confirming my criterion that I needed to even check

[last matrix]

in my experience that is a lot harder to overlook, to just not realize

[royal yacht]

if you want to remove code at all from this conversation think of it in terms of algorithms instead which is purely mathematical

[last matrix]

perhaps because while building the belts to handle the throughput machine by machine - at least if you build manifolds as I do - you realize you exceed 780 if you do

anyway if that criterion is the correct one then it is an easy thing to check

all I wanted was to make sure I did not go and implement logic based on an incorrectly judged premise

[royal yacht]

a deadlock, like the analogous train situation, involves a system that will not restart when the thing that incited the deadlock is cleared
ie it is self-blocking
I think you self defined and answered your issue here tbh. A deadlock is any instance in which there's a loop in the production

how that loop is formed is up to however you want to handle it logistically

[vapid gorge]

well going by your truck example - you didn't plan a Point A to Point B logistic - which is something you need to do all the time.

in this case Point A truck station to Point B can move 2 belts worth of material pm.

if you have more than 2 belts worth? you need more than those 2 stations

[royal yacht]

as for automatic throughput balancing and warning, makes me want to make my own spreadsheet tbh

[last matrix]

I did that for my oil plant, then my HMF factory, then my aluminum factory, and then got sick of doing it in excel and started working on the tool

[royal yacht]

fairs

tbh I should probably actually make the tool I keep saying I'll make

[last matrix]

the primary advantage of doing it programmatically is it is much more readily "dynamic", ie a lot less work to do things like add new recipes

[royal yacht]

are you aware of docs.json?

[last matrix]

yes

I parse it for the recipe and item data

[royal yacht]

ok cool

I figured you did, but had me worried for a moment lol

[fallow vector]

points quietly at docs.json.ts 😁

[last matrix]

oil factory example https://i.imgur.com/3NR8ZDW.png https://i.imgur.com/dRQ9Bsw.png

using conditional formatting and lots of formulae in the excel, which was a pain when I wanted to add new rows with new recipes, or making a new excel for a new subfactory

much easier with the tool

even with it being still very very WIP

especially when I am messing around and adding and removing recipes a lot to try and fine-tune

for example my upcoming plate and frame factory is STILL undergoing tweaking https://i.imgur.com/aVuTka9.png

[last matrix]

I need to have a custom def and parsing system too

since I want to have user-addable mod support

but the docs.json at least handles everything in vanilla

[royal yacht]

what language?

[last matrix]

this is a JavaFX application

[wind spade]

since I'm working on that too, may be worth to consider using same code for this?

[royal yacht]

ooo nice

that makes a potential for 3 different wrappers now if I ever make the python one XD

[last matrix]

as in the same def spec so that the same file can be loaded by either application?

[wind spade]

I have a docs parser that handles both my Tools and wiki (two different formats), adding more wouldn't be a big issue.

Plan is to support localisation and mod-export format as well

[last matrix]

my current impl is more proof of concept than anything (in particular it does not use the internal IDs), but is very simple

example for a vanilla recipe

does not include anything my tool does not need to know, since why would I

[wind spade]

probably wouldn't take long to add your format to the parser 🤷‍♂️

it has basically two steps - first it loads data from Docs.json into memory and objects, and then exports those objects to different formats

so that people don't need to repeat the first part (parsing of Docs.json) and can just focus on using the parsed data

[royal yacht]

I think the issue with that is the docs.json license, or lack of

[last matrix]

I do something similar internally, since the objects are cross-referential and when parsing top to bottom you cannot guarantee that everything A references is loaded before A itself

[royal yacht]

hard to easily draw the line between what's ours and what's theirs

[last matrix]

i was told the wiki uses docs.json

and that has de facto official blessing

as such any other tool should as well

[wind spade]

yeah, parsed by my script 🙂

[royal yacht]

yeah but they're not distributing files as such

[last matrix]

nor would we

[fallow vector]

wiki is CC, wiki doesn't have authority to relicense docs.json as CC

[last matrix]

that said the wiki is distributing the item icons, since that is what serving a webpage is

[fallow vector]

fair use doctrine

[last matrix]

and I asked about that too since my tool will also need to ship with icons

[wind spade]

I asked way back and basically got answer "we're fine with it".

[royal yacht]

if this included every recipe I can see argument that it's CSS's work, but it's also kinda not? it's weird

[last matrix]

unless I force the user to use that icon dump mod and do some stuff ingame to get them

which is...viable if highly undesirable

[wind spade]

Docs is specifically made to aid online tools, wikis and such

[royal yacht]

yeah and CSS is chill so it's probably fine but also not a legal battle you want to be on the wrong side of

[wind spade]

putting Docs.json online without change would probably be a bit more problematic (although iirc I asked about that as well and got answer that it should be fine)

data.json for Tools, *.json files for wiki, etc. - that's all totally fine

[royal yacht]

yeah, and tbh even using a parsed json file is fine but imo the moment it's parsed into types/objects for a language is when it counts as fair use but some companies will go after you for that

[fallow vector]

alls it takes is for some asshat from the parent company to stumble into the legal department and say "no" 😛

[fallow vector]

cough cough oracle cough cough

[royal yacht]

did you know that we're not allowed discord bots in one of the servers I mod for because meta don't want the hassle of data protection?

[fallow vector]

yay for the irish courts 😛

[royal yacht]

so yeah at this point I don't trust the legal team of companies to play nice

[last matrix]

I have no intent of shipping docs.json

the tool requires the user specify the game install dir

partly for that reason

[royal yacht]

which is the solution marv uses too

[wind spade]

I ship data.json with each server request 🤷‍♂️

[fallow vector]

slightly different, I say "go copy and paste this file" 😅

[royal yacht]

but I more just mean if you shipped a parsed version of it then at some point a lawyer could technically go after you, even if unlikely

[royal yacht]

same end result, you get the user's file

like we could go all the way over to nintendo where distributing a parser would probably get frowned at but then we could be at the other end where we currently are where they're saying we can redistribute really quite a lot for now

[fallow vector]

japan doesn't have fair use doctrine

which partly explains why nintendo have historically been asshats about streamers

[royal yacht]

japan is funky

anyways I gotta go cook

[fallow vector]

japan might be funky, but the swedish put banana on pizza

[last matrix]

and I have to get back to work, like actual real work

[royal yacht]

well yeah the swedish are crazy

[ashen stirrup]

A pizza with fried bananas on it would be good

[hot dove]

Sorry if this is the wrong channel, but I'm trying to figure out is there a way to measure the throughput on a belt? I've just got done with my first really complicated build from plans and I want to make sure I've done the math right. I should have 7 belts of 780 ingots, 1 leftover belt of 332. I'm pretty sure i've got those 780 belts correct but how to test that 332 belt?

[median heath]

Are you sending, in total, exactly 5792/min?

[versed violet]

Connect industrial container, time how long it takes to fill. make sure other belts are being fully drained.

[versed violet]

Or, if you allow mods, there are item counter mods for belts.

[hot dove]

Like a train station? I didn't think about that cause this is a component for a megafactory, but I can definitely set up one temporarily

That makes a lot more sense than running the output into a sink while trying to count it

[median heath]

OR

Are you sending, in total, exactly 5792/min?

[hot dove]

That should be the total, I'm just trying to figure out how to see that I am

[versed violet]

sink the full belts, see what comes out of the small one. Unless its not prioritized correctly

[median heath]

If that is the amount you're sending, and you have 7 full belts, then the 8th is guaranteed to be 332.

[wind spade]

I mean if you send X to the belt, it'll carry X (if it's in the belt's capacity). Don't really need to measure it

[versed violet]

"People are bad at math" + "don't assume, measure"

[hot dove]

I'm trying to verify my math is correct across the whole factory, As each production line didn't exactly make 780, I had to do a "belt compressor" to fill each to 780 and then have a belt of leftover. Im trying to figure out how to verify that I did that correctly.

[wind spade]

genuine question - why compress belts and not just put the amount on the belt that you need on the other side?

[median heath]

By checking that you are making the amount you want at the beginning.

[wind spade]

if on other side you need 2x600, make two belts of 600, no need to compress

[versed violet]

Checking is fine, mistakes happen.

[hot dove]

Because I'm basing the next parts of the facility on having 780 belt inputs, and the location where I built this section was confined and I couldn't fit easily all the refineries to get full belts

[median heath]

NO THEY DO NOT.
THIS IS DISCORD.
WE ARE ALL PERFECT.

[hot dove]

Plus, with the Pure Ingot recipe the math gets messy, coming from 780 input I get 1448 ingots

[versed violet]

780 per belt is fine, easy to math with. just don't make belts too long, there was some kind of throughput issue. Unless that was fixed. Guys People, was that fixed?

[wind spade]

exactly why I don't recommend grouping by belt speeds

start from end product, see how much each group needs, group by those numbers

[hot dove]

This output is going into a very nearby facility so that hopefully won't be an issue

[hot dove]

That perhaps would have been easier

[wind spade]

it is indeed 🙂

[versed violet]

nah, sometimes we just make ~~ 20~~ 12+ belts of alu ingots then wonder what to do with them

[wind spade]

so many people merge things into arbitrary amounts just to ask "how to split this into X and Y", instead of considering grouping it into X and Y from start

(and so many people make things they do not need yet and then wonder how to use them 😛 )

[hot dove]

I've got things better laid out in the recipes ahead, but for the raw resources I wanted to get everything that was close into one facility, there are 4 pure iron nodes I wanted to refine into ingots, giving me 7 full belts and some leftovers

[versed violet]

Perfectly acceptable, have a good day sir.

[hot dove]

https://tenor.com/view/bắt-tay-hợp-tác-thành-công-chúc-mừng-doanh-nhân-gif-12390031

[true junco]

Ah. See. I was merging everything to specific amounts (belt max) then not bugging anyone about how to split it because i know how manifolds work. Lmfao

[wind spade]

well it was more generic, not just nab at manifolds, but also "how to split my steel between beams and pipes" or "how to load balance 5 full belts into 7 different amounts as output"

[hot dove]

Some of that is fun to do though, it's problem solving that makes this game so enjoyable for me

[wind spade]

I mean for sure, I'm just recommending easier approach to people that come here with issues 🤷‍♂️ whether you go for it or not is up to you

[hot dove]

Fair enough

[deep citrus]

@late whale

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/thumb/4/4f/Manifold_Schematics.png/1024px-Manifold_Schematics.png

[late whale]

@deep citrus

[deep citrus]

why was it like this?

[late whale]

i had 10 hours in the game and i didnt think there was any other way

desprate to stop using biofuel

[deep citrus]

I mean I don't know why this wouldn't work

[late whale]

oh right

[deep citrus]

a coal generator takes 15 coal/m

[late whale]

the beginning was 60

cuz i had mk 1

[deep citrus]

well that can only feed 4...

60 coal/m can only feed 4 coal generators

[late whale]

didnt work though

[deep citrus]

what??

[late whale]

here one second

[deep citrus]

what's 60 divided by 15?

[late whale]

4

ive graduated kindergarten

[deep citrus]

so how many coal generators can 60 coal/m feed if each coal generator takes 15 coal/m ?

[late whale]

4, i've graduated kindergarten

[deep citrus]

yeah

[late whale]

also go to bed

its 5 am for you

[deep citrus]

how do you know I didn't just wake up

how do you know what my sleep schedule really is?

(it's a lil bit of a mess)

[late whale]

guessing idk

also cuz i think the conveyor belt did this

1 second lemme draw it again

it was like this

thats why it didnt work

[deep citrus]

well how the splitters are is irrelevant when doing a manifold

just that the input and amount consumed matches

[deep citrus]

like these things can get as long as need be

[late whale]

this is why i dont like manifold

120 coal line on manifold can't do jack

[deep citrus]

wdym?

[late whale]

look at the picture

is that not how manifold works?

[deep citrus]

yes, it's a line of splitters in front of machine inputs

[late whale]

then why do people use it

[deep citrus]

the space used to load balance for every machine gets unreasonable

and the effort to do that

[late whale]

but you're wasting material if you dont

[deep citrus]

no?

[late whale]

look at this

this is what manifold is correct?

[deep citrus]

if the machines in the manifold use the same amount of material as you put into it

[late whale]

thats different

[deep citrus]

Faye, what's 120 divided by 15?

[late whale]

im talking about like coal generators

[amber umbra]

Key idea is the manifold needs to "fill with items" first. Then it just works.

[late whale]

omg i know what you're doing, and can you hear what im saying

if the 120 you have splits every time

then you have 60 going in the first one and 15 going in the last one

[deep citrus]

yeah, it needs to fill up and after a given machine fills up it will only use as many materials as it needs (15 in this case)

if the stack of items is full in the machines

the resources pile up to the splitter and the splitter just lets the overflow go in the free non-piled-up direction

so when the first machine is full

that coal generator will only use 15

and the rest 105 will go on to the rest

[late whale]

that makes sense, it would've been easier to know that -w-

[deep citrus]

well, we all need to learn things somehow

[late whale]

i didnt know manifold was supposed to pile up

now time for my favorite part of the day

POWER!!!!!!

[deep citrus]

we've kinda been saying that the entire time..

[late whale]

i wasn't trying to atleast

gang i have 17 hours i probably have 3 afking eating dinner and stuff

im 14 and im not really that smart

💀

[tame harbor]

Okay so, quick sanity check

Let's say I decide to use 2 Pure oil wells to make 400 Rubber and Plastic each. This will generate a combined 600 heavy oil, which can be turned into 400 fuel. Burning this fuel straight up is an even 5,000 MW. If I add some compacted coal for turbo fuel it's closer to 11,111 MW?

[vapid gorge]

Possibly? Use satisfactorytools.com , we don’t have all the recipes in our brains

[deep citrus]

yeah this is a lot of numbers and not enough flowchart

[tame harbor]

This is just my "I don't need sleep I need answers" brain throwing wiki numbers into my phone calculator

[deep citrus]

u.. use satisfactorytools.com ...

[tame harbor]

Wow that website is not mobile friendly

[vapid gorge]

well no, planners tend to be complex and require details, here https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=pagEdaxUH9CXjUivzvsQ

you get more if you have one of the diluted fuel recipes

[vapid gorge]

3x as much if you have enough coal and sulfur it seems https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=DE9tYkDYMlsHi1Cx6w8R

[deep citrus]

when mid game diluted fuel plant but can't blender and longingly stare at the late game building and it's diluted fuel recipe

[vapid gorge]

packaged diluted is fine

[deep citrus]

but still

same ratios but blender's is less building and less power per fuel made

[vapid gorge]

barely

[deep citrus]

and you don't need to fill up a circuit with canisters

[vapid gorge]

oh don't use a circuit - feed the canisters back 1:1 or it's a mess

[deep citrus]

yeah

you put the canisters in

[tame harbor]

I was more just, surprised at how much power I could get out of even basic plastic/rubber production

[deep citrus]

and they go round and round

[vapid gorge]

this is very simple - just don't manifold the cannisters

[tame harbor]

In comparison to coal power

[vapid gorge]

lot more work

but yes you get more and more power

[tame harbor]

Anyway, off to sleep 🛌

[median heath]

Note: there is a vast difference between Well and a Node. 👍

[tame harbor]

does a wiki dive

Ah yeah

[tame harbor]

after sleeping on it

part of my surprise is how you can generate that much power off of what's supposed to be a byproduct

[wind spade]

HOR is not really a byproduct

[tame harbor]

I see that now

[wind spade]

nothing in the game is really a byproduct 🙂

you can always use pretty much everything in reasonable way

the charm of the game is choosing the recipes to deal with your production

[carmine valley]

which one is better? haven't played in a while bcs of 1.0 coming out and i restarted so im still early game

[median heath]

Neither is better or worse.

Pick whichever you personally, like.

[wind spade]

there's no "better" with alt recipes

they are "alternatives"
whether or not you like them is up to you

[old plover]

has it been determined how many lizard doggos a world could spawn?

[pseudo cedar]

I think it’s infinite? All the other mobs are

[wind spade]

I think each "spawner" can only spawn one at a time 🤔

[old plover]

yea my idea was that there were spawners that aren't fixed and there could be a theoretical max number of lizard doggos in a single save

[median heath]

All 3 are good options.

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message

[grave stump]

I just unlocked access to steel

[median heath]

Pick whichever you, personally prefer.

[grave stump]

question, is copper production going to be important later on?

[median heath]

You are the sole person who decides that.

[grave stump]

there seems to be a few ore mines for them

[wind spade]

the whole map is full of copper

[grave stump]

it's not

[median heath]

And you are the one who decides how much of anything you make.

[median heath]

It is.

[wind spade]

there's almost 30k copper per minute available on the map

[median heath]

Copper is a rare resource found in only one location on the entire map...

Oh wait...

Literally everywhere except Red Jungle.

[vapid gorge]

There’s currently almost 30,000 copper ore per min on the map - yes

[grave stump]

but it;s not covering the map

[median heath]

Do you not SEE the map... and how it is EVERYWHERE?!?!

[vapid gorge]

Troll - just block him

[grave stump]

relax I was kidding

[median heath]

See, the "Say dumb thing" I was fine with.
The "Hehe just kidding bro lol funny" is where I click the button.

138 😉

[old plover]

to be fair as you unlock steel on your first playthrough, you have no idea how later game logisitcs shrinks the map, and copper does seem hard to come by

[wind spade]

iirc when you unlock steel you're advised to construct outposts (maybe even before that)

[median heath]

Depends on chosen milestone order.

[old plover]

yes upon vehicular transports unlock

[median heath]

The specific line about outposting is in the Truck Stop unlock with Tractors.

[left shale]

Hi guys, i need some help. I may look a little dumb but i need to find a way to split my productions of 10 into 3 other way 2 of 3 and an other of 4. Can someone help me on that little problem ?

[wind spade]

usually a single splitter can split whatever you want

[left shale]

I KNOW

mb caps

i know that but i cant split them into 3,3 and 4 because i dont have the smart one

[wind spade]

don't need smart one for that

just place a normal splitter

it'll work eventually

[left shale]

but it'll split them into 3,333333 x 3 ??

[wind spade]

and what happens if you send 3.33333 into something that needs only 3?

[left shale]

it'll be stuck on the conveyer ??

[wind spade]

which means the splitter will send the extra to other directions

[left shale]

seems perfectly logical

[wind spade]

that's one way of doing it, called manifold

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[left shale]

thanks !!

[wind spade]

other ways include:

• not merging the production to 10, instead building it so that you have three groups that make 3, 3 and 4 respectively (sometimes needs changing clock speed)
• building tons of splitters and mergers to "balance" the flow perfectly - a balancer (usually needlessly complicated)

if you really want a balancer, for your case, one way would be to build a 1:10 balancer (two 1:5 balancers, which is "split to 6 outputs and merge one back to input"), and then merge 3 or 4 outputs from the balancer respectively

[left shale]

didn't know that i can do that lmao

but thanks 😄

[wind spade]

this is one way you could do it if you really want to 🙂

but I think you can understand why I recommend the simpler approach (you just have to wait a bit for it to stabilise)

most people use manifolds everywhere, the basic premise is "if you have X resources on a belt and machines need X resources in total, it doesn't really matter how you connect it, it will fill up and then all machines will get the amount they need"

[left shale]

what is the meaning of the "M" ?

[wind spade]

merger

[left shale]

okay

i'll think a bit of what i'll use but this will help me a lot

[wind spade]

in general I'd recommend either manifolds (see the wiki link above) or direct input (if you need 3/3/4, have three groups of machines, making 3/3/4 respectively)

[left shale]

👍

thanks you for your help 😄

[summer flare]

This is a much tidier way of getting the splits you require. Merge the 1 and 3 to get 4, and split the 6 to get the 2 of 3. Using a manifold and "you just have to wait a bit" with such low rates means you will be waiting a long time.

[wind spade]

"waiting a long time" is usually just a few minutes, during which the production still goes at 94.4%

and can be entirely avoided by prefilling

[ruby blade]

(i wrote bullshit here)

[regal wyvern]

Especially with only three machines. Obtaining three stacks of stuff to prefill is no time at all.

[ruby blade]

building proper splits very often takes longer than waiting to fill

but for aesthetics i also prefer proper splits

[regal wyvern]

I mean, at least half of this gam is aesthetics, so fair.

[ruby blade]

sure, definitly!

i just wanted to say, that "time to fill up" is not a very good arguement

[maiden radish]

The way I build the factory up by the time I have built the smelters / first process the ingots/item have backlogged. When do with the next set of buildings needed to be built the previous set is backlogged

[carmine iron]

Is there drone user here ?

Because i try to know how much battery should I produce to use drone without using too much sulfur so I can build that thing https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_PlutoniumFuelRod_C"%3A"12.6"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_PureQuartzCrystal_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureIronIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCopperIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCateriumIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_UraniumCell_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_NuclearFuelRod_1_C"]}

[median heath]

You can't use too much sulfur.

Max Nuke + All Aluminium on the Map via Instant = Still enough sulfur for HUNDREDS of Batteries per minute.

[carmine iron]

Oh Nice

[carmine iron]

So I don’t need to worry about that

[median heath]

The only people who have sulfur issues are people who use Turbofuel for power.
Which there is no reason to do.

So as long as you don't, you don't need to worry about it.

[deep citrus]

yeah, using mass scale turbofuel power consumes so much of the available sulfur on the map

diluted fuel power is just fine tho

[carmine iron]

Oh

I use turbo fuel 😂

[deep citrus]

💀

[carmine iron]

600m3 per minute is fine right ?

[median heath]

Diluted is far, far more than enough to get you to nuclear.

[carmine iron]

I might change to diluted then

[median heath]

👍

[carmine iron]

48000mw with turbo/fuel and coal

[true junco]

Max wastless Uranium Nuclear power leaves enough sulfur to make 2656 batteries/min.

(And this is apparently independant of whether you make all your aluminum with instant scrap or sloppy-electrode which surprised me... or i broke SFT again)

[carmine iron]

But with diluted I might increased that

[median heath]

This is only if you don't use any for Aluminium. 👍

[wind spade]

wdym again I'm not fixing that

stop breaking my things

[carmine iron]

Depends on which way is the more efficient

[median heath]

They are equal.

[carmine iron]

The simple one to build then

[wind spade]

well, depends what "efficiency" are you talking about

[median heath]

Instant is simpler.

[deep citrus]

what's the advantage of sloppy electrode

[true junco]

I plugged in aluminum ingots into the calculator with both of the mentioned combos for scrap. Got 50.4 UFR, 12.6 PFR, 2656 Btry, 6584 Aluminum with instant scrap (7888 with Sloppy electrode)

[median heath]

Conversion efficiency.

[deep citrus]

so more bang for your buck

[median heath]

It is equal to Instant.

[deep citrus]

or materials

[median heath]

Your choice is which black rock.

If coal -> Instant
If coke -> Sloppy + Electrode

[deep citrus]

I'm just gonna pull up the wiki quickly

[true junco]

Oh. I have a habit of tweaking inputs on things until they give erroneous results. 😆

[median heath]

YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER?!?

[wind spade]

if (name == 'Canadian_F_H' and inputAttemptCount > 100) write 'Please stop'

[median heath]

I have a habit of putting in totally normal things and tools adding 15 different unrelated materials at 0/min....

[carmine iron]

Thank for helping

[wind spade]

rounding error, please teach computers how to do float numbers

[median heath]

puts computer in water so it can learn to float

[true junco]

The Advantage of Sloppy electrode is that it requires a relatively tiny amount of Oil to produce the maximum amount of aluminum scrap.

The advantage of Instant Scrap is that it also produces the maximum aluminum scrap and is very simple and requires sulfur which despite being the second rarest ore, it is one of the more difficult resources to use up. You really have to dig deep into entirely optional recipes to run out of sulfur.

Or be a maddie and make 2656 batteries per minute. 😆

[median heath]

Instant: 1 Ref, 1 Blender
Sloppy + Electrode: 4 Refs

[deep citrus]

so does the base recipe kinda just suck compared to what the alts let you do?

for both solution and scrap?

[true junco]

IMO yes.

[median heath]

If your benchmark for sucking is resource conversion rate, yes.

[deep citrus]

it indeed is

[median heath]

Come to the Instant side. Join us.

[deep citrus]

so which one is the most efficient then?

[median heath]

They are equal.

[median heath]

@deep citrus

[deep citrus]

uh-huh

so they're both same amount of scrap per bauxite?

[median heath]

That's all there is to it 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Correct.

[deep citrus]

but they're both better than base

[true junco]

This is true of most ore processing i think. Things are definitely not that straight forward for all other alts. But for ore to ingots/quartz/silica/concrete the default recipies are all the worst options in my opinion.

[median heath]

Correct again.

[true junco]

They are equal in bauxite to aluminum scrap.

They are not identical in "other input resource" or complexity. Choosing which is a matter of prefference regarding coal+sulfur vs oil and different machinery.

[deep citrus]

ye

[median heath]

Instant my beloved.

2 buildings.
Perfect closed loop byproduct.

[true junco]

Sevr clearly has a favorite. 😆 and his reasoning is entirely sound. I have personally preferred sloppy electrode so far. But ill definitely be using more instant in the future.

[deep citrus]

also blender cool

[median heath]

It's just "take water output from Blender and plug into input for Refinery"

It doesn't get easier than that.

[deep citrus]

also using all of the inputs and outputs of the blender is even more fucking cool

[median heath]

You are one step closer to perfection.

[deep citrus]

even the satisfactory tools webiste given all recipies when told to maximize (60 bauxite input->scrap) uses the instant scrap recipe by default lol

[median heath]

Yeah... try getting it to use Iron Alloy though.

Greeny hates objectively superior recipes.

[wind spade]

maximise uses whatever recipe it wants. Use items/min if you want resource efficiency

[wind spade]

disable pure 😛

[median heath]

AND normal.

Because of the dumbass weight system I can't mess with until you finish the 1.0 version. 🙃

[deep citrus]

well it's useful to see what's the most efficient way to do something is

[wind spade]

it doesn't show most efficient way though. Only items/min does

[deep citrus]

well when using items/min, it shows sloppy|electrode how curious

[median heath]

Because the weight system has an artificial value on sulfur.

[deep citrus]

what does that mean

[wind spade]

resources are weighted by their relative appearance on the map

[deep citrus]

ah

[median heath]

It means because the program believes sulfur to be a precious resource that must be preserved above all others, it prefers not to use it.

[wind spade]

which, although not being perfect, relatively nicely preserves rarer resources at the cost of common resources

in new Tools people will be able to modify these weights themselves

[deep citrus]

cool

[median heath]

And it considers them rare in a vacuum, not against the context of what they are actually used in.

(Not blaming, I know how much of a bitch something like that would be to code.)

[wind spade]

practically impossible given that "where they are used" depends on what recipes user picks... and if user picks recipes based on Tools results, we end up with a cycle with no way out 🙂

[median heath]

Exactly.

So just code it based on the one true correct way to play, obviously.

[wind spade]

which is "pick something easy and relatively good to value resources against and then let users disable things"

[median heath]

No. It is @vapid gorge's way. 😛

[true junco]

Which way is that?

[jovial wyvern]

That way 👉

[livid compass]

Can I do anything with this cave dwellers?

[vapid gorge]

the sloppy way? it sure is.

sulfur is just less convenient on large scale

[fringe pawn]

So Satis has common and rare resources now? 😏

[real yew]

I just need a 40/40 split for 2 of these things (rubber automation). Why must the factory gods forsaken me! (Also, is there a way to get it to be an exact 40/min cause this is actually kinda bothering me.)

[deep citrus]

just write in 40

[tulip egret]

Use the percentage

[deep citrus]

you can write both for the percentage and the /m

[vapid gorge]

@sudden ferry @deep citrus So the safest way to manage 600 flow in a pipe and avoid back flow

pipes go from Point A to Point B - no random merges or splits to other spots - then loop your manifold and flood it before having it run at 100%

[real yew]

It's the input so I have no idea how to change the amount for that

[deep citrus]

and should you do this for 300 mk1 pipes?

[tulip egret]

Use the percentage for small calculations

[vapid gorge]

so the issues that crop up happen more often with mk2 - part of it is that the length of the manifolds with more machines on it cause more issues, as well as the sheer volume of fluid being sucked out

if you're using a mk1 pipe then it might be that you only feed 3 machines and those are generally stable

however I just loop and flood every system to be safe.

[real yew]

I tried that, but it appears that it doesn't want to go any more specific than this (which doesn't make sense since I have done it before and it worked just fine, but now I am unable to get very precise percentages past this precision)

[vapid gorge]

it jsut saves tons of brain space to include a loop right at the start as it works for all situations

[tulip egret]

Try 133.34

[scarlet sky]

Interesting, I never use loops and my pipes all work fine

[tulip egret]

Can you do 133.338

[deep citrus]

what if you just keep writing 3s

[tulip egret]

Nothing. Number stays the same

[real yew]

It goes back to 133.33

[vapid gorge]

look honestly - no shade or anything - but in my experience people are really bad at noticing hiccups in fluid systems.

Espcially because you can often get fluid systems running almost perfect w/o loops.

[real yew]

Sooooo 133.335 worked perfectly

[tulip egret]

Yippie!

[vapid gorge]

just write in the fraction in the equation - it will only every look to the 4th decimal place though so you want to round it up

[scarlet sky]

Could be the case I suppose? It's been a while since I did complex fluids

I'll find out soon enough, starting up aluminium soon

[vapid gorge]

yeah and what I'm talking about is perfect never a stutter. It's very easy to miss 1 machine going yellow for 0.5 seconds every 30-50 seconds in a giant line

and maybe you've mostly just down very short manifolds? I don't know

[scarlet sky]

Well generally you'll notice that can be a possibility if input buffers aren't full, or output buffers are close to full

(internal buffers)

[vapid gorge]

depends how thorough you're looking - I will stare at a system for like a full minute at light height as a last step just to make triple sure

[scarlet sky]

yep

You sure do need to look carefully

[deep citrus]

I also like cheking the productivity display of each machine

to see if its at 100%

[vapid gorge]

I don't trust them - and you have to click on each of them individually

efficiency displays used to be wildly wildy wrong - they've 'fixed' them but it's unclear how accurate they are :\

another good check is - once youve flooded a system and gotten it going? manually check all the input buffers of the machines after 20 minutes, they should all still be running at near full if hte system is flawless

[scarlet sky]

And the output buffers should be empty/quick to empty

[vapid gorge]

there's a bit more to it than just the point A to B thing, like avoiding multiple manifolds coming from the same pipe, keeping the manifold level for hte whole length, things like that

those are things you can work around, but I don't recommend doing it unless you really know what you're doing

[vapid gorge]

ah but if the next step is also fluid you'll want those buffers flooded too 😄

at least near flooded

[scarlet sky]

true

[vapid gorge]

just good to keep an eye out for things like that. Its one of the reason I like the light test

works for all situations

[vapid gorge]

@formal zinc like this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1246116237021286430/alum_options.png?ex=66909c6e&is=668f4aee&hm=06a2a0238b47ef1b02697ec5115d3653971abfc1b232a683c35700f9dba44ce3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=640&height=905

having hte waste water feed an independent section of solution machines is basically unbreakable

[formal zinc]

Huh.. i do have it set up like this actually, maybe it was a fluke, ill flush the system again

[cursive plinth]

Does the "30 per minute" mean its outputting 2*30(60) wire or 30 Wire a minute

[vapid gorge]

likely some other issue - maybe a math mistake or build error? cause that layout is essentially unbreakable

[burnt wraith]

30 per minute in batches of 2

[vapid gorge]

30 individual parts of wire

every recipe cycle it produces 2 wire

the above numbers are the parts per cycle, lower is parts per min

[cursive plinth]

ohhhhhh alright

[burnt wraith]

So it processes for 4 seconds then spits out 2 wire

[cursive plinth]

that should be a text bubble which tells you that if your hovering over it

[sand epoch]

A bubble telling us what is already shown?

[formal zinc]

I redid the math and it doesnt seem like i made a mistake, i changed around some locations of the underclocked refineries and i hope this works now lol, time to let it fill up to see if its resistant to it now

[vapid gorge]

the waste and fresh waters are completely independent right?
if it still is hiccuping put up some shots from overhead to show the layout

[formal zinc]

Yes, in the beginning i tried to do it with pipe priorities but that completely bricks once the water fills up, and is from what i experienced very unreliable

[vapid gorge]

it's fiddly yeah 🙂

[formal zinc]

I want smart pipes and smart mergers q.q
Would make all of this sooo much easier

[burnt wraith]

But would making it easier be more fun?

[formal zinc]

Having something work reliably would be more fun imo, yes :p
And i hate scrapping stuff cuz it feels wasted lol

[vapid gorge]

eh, it's a problem solving game, no reason to remove the problem solving. Besides pipes are easy once you know the basics

[formal zinc]

Well sure, i just think it would be very nice to have like better train signals, just some small things would make this much more fun, for me at least

[burnt wraith]

That’s fair

[formal zinc]

And personally i draw a line between a problem and just an annoying inconvenience that is only partially put there intentionally xD

[livid compass]

What kind of Coal am I looking at? I can put miners on it, but not a Mk1?

Or should I build foundation over it?

[vapid gorge]

a rock is in the way - use an item on it

[livid compass]

Aha, as someone new, I had no idea an item for this existed.

[vapid gorge]

common noob mistake ignoring the MAM

[livid compass]

You mean that the knowledge of this game, is not very obvious, plus spread between lots of locations and you like to shout down from your horse?

[ruby blade]

i think he wanted to point you to the MAM without spoiling the solution right away

it's more fun to find out stuff by yourself

[livid compass]

I have developed lots of things in the MAM, but was not obvious to something working rocks on resources.

[true junco]

Yes except for the shouting down from the horse. Sounds like you are attributing malice where there is none there.

The tutorials and ingame explanations are a bit under developed since theyve been focusing on making the actual game. I hope for all our sakes that 1.0 has much more fleshed out tutorials. It would reduce some of the questions like these and reduce frustration amungst new players too.

[carmine iron]

Hint : boom

[livid compass]

As someone who has been active in many supportive game communities, I do not like anyone telling someone else the issue is them being a "common noob". Just help people, give them pointers, or for me, I liked making videos.

[carmine iron]

Yes its a bit rude

[ruby blade]

only if you want to interpret it as rude. We all are/were noobs at some point. Nothing wrong with this term in my opinion

[livid compass]

Just found out the limit of mk1 pipes 🙂

[oblique hollow]

At this point you should split up the flow between multiple points of this pipe network

for 8 generators, 360/min water is enough.
I'll leave the logistics of how to pipe that up to you 🪠

[livid compass]

Yeah, I switched a few pumps off, when taking a look at the numbers.

[burnt wraith]

I misread that as the start of a "kids these days" rant

"for 8 generations, 360/min water has been enough"

[oblique hollow]

Nah i dont blame people who start out with coal power for not immediately knowing these things

[deft lichen]

you get blame for not reading the descriptions

also afaik the game doesn't tell you fuel burn rates before you actually build the generator and insert the fuel, unlike recipes in the codex

[royal yacht]

yeah which does annoy me

also I may be wrong but I think it won't tell you the rates if it's half way through a burn too

so if you're comparing different fuels it can be a little funky

[median heath]

It would be very easy to add to the codex, as I have outlined multiple times 😭

[royal yacht]

so so easy

surprised that's not a standalone mod actually... mc has a fuelinfo mod so maybe a good intro to modding for me would be something like that

[median heath]

Why you always gotta push it in directions you know I can't comment on 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[royal yacht]

I would 100% vouch for it being a base game thing, I'm just very surprised it doesn't exist as a mod in the mean time

[carmine iron]

After calculation, to turn my entire fuel factory to diluted fuel, i Would need to place around 700 fuel generator

Without overclocking

What a mess 😂

[true junco]

Thankfully that will be improved on 1.0

[carmine iron]

More consumption, but more power ?

I mean 700 is huge

[oblique hollow]

in 1.0, you would only need 420

but they still use up the same fuel as 700

[median heath]

Why build 420 when can build 168 😁

[tame harbor]

And that's before the extra piping needed....

[deep citrus]

well more to build is more fun

[carmine iron]

Yes

But i know that after this, there is a max nuclear projet

[scarlet sky]

Got 7 hard drives, over a hundred alien remains, 5 of each slug, and a boatload of wood and shrooms before I ran out of ammo, not a bad haul.

[polar slate]

btw you can re roll hard drives

[scarlet sky]

It's a bug, you're not supposed to be able to

[polar slate]

and

[scarlet sky]

And I choose to play the game the way it was designed to be played, to me, rerolling hard drives really takes away from that.

Unless of course it's an awesome exploit, i.e. hypertube cannons

[wind spade]

and it's kinda pointless to do so, you waste 10 minutes

[scarlet sky]

ehh, it depends, if you want eg crystal computers right now before you build a computer factory, I can see how cheating like that would be useful

[wind spade]

if you reroll, your chance is 1/[remaining recipes]
if you pick one and use another drive, your chance is 1/[remaining recipes - 1]

strictly better to pick a recipe and use another drive

[scarlet sky]

But if you're just gonna reroll to get the recipes you want, then just check off Unlock All Recipes in the advanced settings

[wind spade]

and if you're really set on cheating, just unlock the recipe you want with AGS

[scarlet sky]

That too

I like the randomness, it adds quite a bit to the game because you don't know exactly how you'll progress when you start out

It's more or less the game's only die roll that affects anything

[barren elm]

Problem occurs when you already know how you're going to progress, and have to endure random rng bullshit beforehand

I just turn them off, was fun like once then never again

[wind spade]

You're gonna get all of them anyway at some point so the order doesn't matter much

[scarlet sky]

w00t crystal computers!

[vapid gorge]

@weary lotus this makes 10.6 mod frames pm from 36.6 ppm on one belt if you're interested #1214381961599262780 message

[deep citrus]

why did you post the same image twice

[scarlet sky]

Because it's awesome enough to say it twice

[vapid gorge]

should have been the second hmm

[vapid gorge]

also that

[scarlet sky]

What recipes does that use?

[vapid gorge]

Steel Coated Plate, Steel Screws, Bolted Reinforced Plate, Bolted Frame

the sushi line is fed with Steel Ingots, Steel Beams, Plastic

[scarlet sky]

Bolted reinforced plates is not on @wind spade's calculator

ergo it does not exist lol

[vapid gorge]

whatever teh high screw bolted plate is

[scarlet sky]

ohhhh, bolted iron plates

I just thought it was a recipe I didn't remember

[vapid gorge]

yeah yeah fair - just the most compact recipes for the chain

[scarlet sky]

Trying to reproduce it and save it with that tool now, I want that blueprint but I don't want to just copy it off you

Did you overclock anything?

[vapid gorge]

oh everything is oc ed up the wazzoo. and i don't have a bp of it xD

I think the lower machiens are at 208%? you can go off that for max clocking

but you can also do less

This was version 1.0 - will prob get changed cause I kinda want to sushi balance it

[scarlet sky]

It should need 2 bolted frame assemblers, 1 bolted plate assembler, and 2 steel coated plate assmblers, but I only see 3 assemblers

[vapid gorge]

not if you clock it right

[scarlet sky]

ohh, each assembler is making something different

that makes sense

[vapid gorge]

the plan is to also use coke steel - you can fit 21 of these babies on 1 manifold

[dusty river]

did some planning on how to produce heavy modular frames in a creative world is this a decent design (using the regular recipe no alternate)

the iron nodes are normal and the coal one is pure

[vapid gorge]

does it achieve what you want? then it's decent 🙂

and purity doesn't matter - just ore pm

[dusty river]

im looking for efficentcy im not that skilled yet

[vapid gorge]

how did you plan the numbers?

[dusty river]

around 10/m

trying to compact the other stages so i can fit it in a decent space in my factory on my main world

[calm mauve]

it doesnt look like you have enough buildings there for 10 HMF/min

[vapid gorge]

have you tried satisfactorytools.com?

[dusty river]

ik that im trying to compact the other stages down to fit 2 of these in

[dusty river]

never heard of it (i might sound stupid)

[calm mauve]

no alts 10 HMF build

[dusty river]

Damn I’ll have a look in the morning (it’s 3:03am in the uk)

[deep citrus]

jesus christ that's a lot of stuff for 10/m

damn, HMFs

hold on I have a meme about this

[dusty river]

💀

[calm mauve]

yeah, alts do help though

[deep citrus]

#satisfactory-memes message

[dusty river]

The item list

Real lol

[calm mauve]

almost 2200mw of power to run it all too, not including the miners

[deep citrus]

oh god...

[dusty river]

☠️ I only produce 760mw with coal I need to build more ahhhhhhh

It’s 3:15am and I am still thinking of this while sat in my bed

I need sleep talk later

[deep citrus]

that decision to be able to make fuel generators without HMFs in 1.0 is a really good one

also they're reducing the extreme resource intensity of encased industrial beams iirc

[deep citrus]

same with trains

computers are also being moved back with HMFs

[vapid gorge]

I am excited about my 1685 pm project yes

[deep citrus]

your what project?

[vapid gorge]

1685 hmf pm

my main project for after 1.0 drops

[deep citrus]

I-

I'm stumped...

[vapid gorge]

the numbers might change a bit with recipe rebalance - 1685 was chosen for no repeating decimals

[vapid gorge]

if you have some alts this chain is more power and resource efficient https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=kvTPHQq2hveDHKJU2e6p

and probably space

[frosty owl]

#satisfactory-memes message

[tame harbor]

Huh, interesting

If you build up 1 belt of Plastic and 1 belt of Rubber production

You will need exactly 2 Belts of compacted coal to process the HOR into Turbo Fuel (with diluted)

good job CSS for making that line up

[median heath]

Pain.

[deft lichen]

I recommend https://satisfactorytools.com/production instead of the SCIM calculator, as it does resource optimization instead of just blindly following the recipes you set

[regal wyvern]

What if I WANT it to actually follow the recipe I set? Though admittedly sometimes it doesn't even do that.

[deft lichen]

disable all others

e.g. if you enable caterium stators, it's not going to use them because it considers default stators more efficient, so you turn default stators off

it picks the most resource-efficient one from what is enabled, and can also use different recipes for one product if needed

[real yew]

I think I did something wrong the moment I tried to turn the heavy oil from computer production into turbofuel, cause that stuff is a logistics nightmare.

Plus, that line looks way simpler. Might try that at some point.

[tame harbor]

Best part (from what I can tell) you can upgrade in stages as necessary

[livid compass]

Whats a SumerSloop for?

Found it near a SAM node.

Oh, wiki tells me, its something futurisk.

[oblique hollow]

nothing

thats why it and SAM and Mercer Spheres are "WIP"

[livid compass]

Makes sence, the cave was a nice setup.

Hard to get to it.

[grizzled walrus]

It is known as TUM in Turkish

and ım thurkish

bruh

TUM=SAM

[ornate epoch]

Picking up multiple FICSIT personal in the area, proceed with harvest before it's too late.

[true junco]

"HaRvEsT iT!"

[pseudo cedar]

do pumps prevent backflow?

[sand epoch]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

@thorn remnant ok how about you make up a plan with satisfactory tools of a factory you'd actually like to make and I can help you go through bits? that's probably the best way

[thorn remnant]

i alr made one, i even have a notepad with some notes on it

i build most of it

but its 1 biggg mess

[vapid gorge]

Hmm well I suggested a fresh one just because the sort of planning it sounds like you want/need has to happen before you start building. Could start a fresh one? what's the next factory you need to make/

[thorn remnant]

i need to automate adaptove control units

last thing i need rn

but idk where to do it or how

[vapid gorge]

ok so - quick question - are you making hte basic parts for adaptive units already?

[thorn remnant]

well

lemme look

i only need 100

so my computers and hmf i can use from a storage cause thats a 1:1 ratio

i guess i have enough materiels left to make 5 circuit boards/min

[vapid gorge]

and the automated wiring?

[thorn remnant]

thats the problem

i need 150 cable

thats like 300 wire

and all my wire is alr in use

OH WAIT

i can dubble my copper produciton i forgot

[vapid gorge]

ok so the reason why I'm asking is because it's generally easier to make temp set ups for space parts.

I'd suggest stuffing a bunch of stators and cable into a couple containers attached to an assembler and letting it go for adapatives

and then do the same to the other parts to a manufacturer

[thorn remnant]

welp i dont have any stators stored

[vapid gorge]

like this

but you're making stators somewhere?

[thorn remnant]

yes theyr currently on my modular engine setup

[vapid gorge]

do you let things back up and fil containers or sink extra?

[thorn remnant]

only some things

[vapid gorge]

well you could consider doing a temp set up like this - or if you like we can use adaptive control unit as a practice factory 🙂

[thorn remnant]

but not stators cause i also just set them up lmao

[thorn remnant]

im gonna do a temp setup

cause now everythings a mess

cant have anything permanent rn

[vapid gorge]

ok - do you want to pick a different factory to practice? 🙂

[thorn remnant]

how about hmf

i have one rn but its not rlly good

[vapid gorge]

oh easy peasy

[thorn remnant]

well the planning is good, the factory itself isnt

[vapid gorge]

so I have a couple ideas for that one - do you want to use coal or oil for the steel?

[thorn remnant]

welp i have a coal steel factory rn

[vapid gorge]

well lets make it completely fresh

it's much much harder to modify an existing set up

to make it look pretty and neat I mean

and that's the impression I'm getting from you?

[thorn remnant]

hehe lmao

read me like a book

[vapid gorge]

I've designed a lot of stuff and helped people xD

so yeah my main 2 ideas for you need limestone, iron and either oil or coal.
oil opens up different possibilities but wether it's worth it or not depends a bit on how many hmf pm you want

it's also more complex

so I guess first is - how many hmf pm do you want?

[thorn remnant]

my current one produces 3

[vapid gorge]

quite a few to help with future production lines?

[thorn remnant]

i guess 3 is more then enough rn for me

[vapid gorge]

and around what zone are you located?

[thorn remnant]

idk anything abb future stuff so idk how much i need

[thorn remnant]

that i do not know, but its rich, its on the middle left of the map? 4 pure iron nodes, 2 pure copper, 2 quartz, caterium. and ALOT of oil in the area

[vapid gorge]

pic of you map?

[thorn remnant]

this channel?

[vapid gorge]

sure

[vapid gorge]

it's all about mathing out your meta 🙂

[thorn remnant]

dont mind the crates i didnt know they where there either

[vapid gorge]

yup speed runner cliff just as I thought

[thorn remnant]

SHHH

i like it here

[vapid gorge]

are you using a bunch of hte nodes here?

[thorn remnant]

i think yes for my steel factory

[vapid gorge]

what about the cliff coal to the south of there?

[thorn remnant]

at the big lake?

[vapid gorge]

lower bit yeah 🙂

[thorn remnant]

uhh yes

my coal power plant

[vapid gorge]

fair xD

[thorn remnant]

LMAO

its a good spot cant leave it hangingg

[vapid gorge]

alright alright alright, do you have many alt recipes?

[thorn remnant]

ohmy god im dumb

at my steel plant i have a 240 line merging with a 120 line with a mk2 belt

I NEVER NOTICED THIS

[vapid gorge]

xD

[thorn remnant]

yes, most of them

i think i gotta redesign my steel plant

i can overclock my miners to 3*240

[vapid gorge]

btw what belts and miners do you have access to?

[thorn remnant]

mk4

nono 4*240

[vapid gorge]

and mk2 miner right?

[thorn remnant]

yes

and i can overclock alot cause scim hehe

[vapid gorge]

how about this recipe chain https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=cHlACSWPmmj3ko329tSs

actually make it 18 hmf pm, that way you only need 1 pipe of water https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=eVUmafzagKLEhO4uDKj1

nah 16 makes it easier 🙂 but same recipe choices

[thorn remnant]

wooowwww

a little too out of my league rn but i can totaly see myself make this next phase

[vapid gorge]

why out of your league?

[thorn remnant]

too much power and recources i can acces rn

for the limestone and iron part

[vapid gorge]

I actually planned it around your tech 🙂

and for a location that you probably haven't touched yet

the real question is - alt recipes - and power

how much power are you making rn?

[thorn remnant]

rn

the peak is 4300

[vapid gorge]

Hmm ok you haven't maxed out those 3 coal nodes yet then

[thorn remnant]

i have a lil fuel setup but its still settling

[vapid gorge]

Well how about this as a proposal

1. max out those 3 coal nodes on the cliff - total that will get you 7200mw
2. hunt for the alt recipes in that plan
3. I'll help you plan out a cool looking set up for it in a good location later 🙂

You'll absolutely need that power anyway and all those recipes will help too later in your game

[thorn remnant]

oohh yes

i forgot i can overclock my miners now that i have mk4 belts

i just automated computers so i recently unlocked all of the tiers

[vapid gorge]

cool, well I'm gonna go walk my dogs. Building all that extra power and getting those recipes will take you a while. Feel free to ping me whenever 🙂

but I think this is totally doable for you

[thorn remnant]

yes have fun

imma sleep cause its 4:30 am wohoo

[vapid gorge]

yess go sleep 😛

[thorn remnant]

imma first make phase 3 tho before i up my coal plant n everything

ragh

[vapid gorge]

xD

[thorn remnant]

this thing is alr big enough😭

[vapid gorge]

go to sleep

bigger! but later

[thorn remnant]

im gonna dream about conveyor belts istg

anyways gn

[real yew]

Just got a beautiful computer factory (2.5/min) working! It also produces Turbo Fuel (44.445/min aka 9.876667 fuel generators needed) and it is working at full efficiency. This was my first time building a computer factory btw, and it took 2 days to get the math right (and an hour of fixing cause it got clogged in a very weird way but it is fixed!)

I love this game

[woven burrow]

wanna ask if anyone has handy a number for most item/min intake
making an universal blueprint

[vapid gorge]

What?

[woven burrow]

whats the highest possible number here in the game across all recipes

[vapid gorge]

If you include overclocking higher than a mk5 belt can go

No idea what you mean by ‘inversely blueprint considering the wild possibilities with alt recipes

[woven burrow]

inversely?

[vapid gorge]

Universal*

[woven burrow]

not resource specific, with machines without settings

[vapid gorge]

I don’t think you’re gonna be able to make one that is at all useful. A big part of the game is creating situation specific solutions - having a fix all bp is almost certainly going to do a bad job at everything

[woven burrow]

i'll consider what you said but in the end i'd be a judge if it fits my gameplay

[median heath]

975 iirc.

Broken down by machine:

• Smelter - 150 (Pure Al Ingot)
• Foundry - 225 + 187.5 [412.5] (Aluminium Ingot)
• Constructor - 750 (Copper Powder)
• Assembler - 225 + 625 [850] (Bolted Iron Plate)
• Manufacturer - 46.875 + 28.125 + 187.5 + 975 [1237.5] (Heavy Flexible Frame)
• Packager - 600 + 150 [750] (Packaged Nitrogen)
• Refinery - 500 + 500 [1000] (Sloppy Alumina)
• Blender - 375 + 250 + 125 + 150 [900] (Instant Scrap)
• Particle Accelerator - 250 + 62.5 [312.5] (Plutonium Pellet)

@woven burrow

[woven burrow]

yooo, thanks a lot mate

[median heath]

All subject to change in 2 months.

[carmine iron]

Hey, for fluid transportation on long distance with train. Should I use fluid wagon or standard wagon with packed fuel ?

[vapid gorge]

It works out the same except you’ll need to bring packages back

You’ll want to look up how to properly buffer them either case

[median heath]

"Should" -> Whichever you, personally prefer.

"Which is more optimal?" -> Fluid Car.

[pseudo cedar]

random question, why did you decide to compile this list? just curiosity?

[median heath]

Was relevant to the original ask.

[pseudo cedar]

what was the original ask?

[median heath]

☝️

[pseudo cedar]

oh you did it just then

[carmine iron]

Ok Nice

One cart/pipe. ?

[median heath]

Use more words.

[carmine iron]

One cart per pipe ?

[median heath]

Why?

If you, personally, feel like limiting your throughput to 1 pipe per platform, that is entirely your decision to make.

[carmine iron]

To keep everything organized

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-kenobi-of-course-gif-22884278

[carmine iron]

😂

[gleaming folio]

hello whats the best solution so i can split 210 and 150

[dense cave]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[dense cave]

Dont worry about splitting accurately, just make sure you have enough input and you will be fine

the 150 line will back up and you will get the 210 backed up after time

[vapid gorge]

is it all on one belt? then 1 splitter

[gleaming folio]

currently on mk3 belts

[vapid gorge]

then make 1 group of foundries make 210 with clocking, and a 2nd group making 150

it's surprising how many people don't consider just putting the right number of items on the belt in the first place

[pseudo cedar]

only time I will discount that idea entirely is when I don't want to go halfway across the map for more blender materials

and when you can do it without increasing the machine count, that's just always a yes

[summer flare]

If it's 6 foundries producing 60 ppm, merge 3 to make 180, split the next to make 2 x 30, one to merge with the 180 to make 210, the other with the remaining 2 x 60 to make 150.

[oblique hollow]

clock the foundries?
clocking is an option for a reason

[carmine iron]

Manifold and no problème 😂

[worldly lily]

is it better to have multiple constructors at 100% and one underclocked or all underclocked the same amount

[median heath]

Neither is better.
Do what you, personally, prefer.

[oblique hollow]

for production - it doesnt matter at all
for power - its kinda diminishing returns situation. Underclock one if you must but the better move would be setting up more power generation

[tough pebble]

If you are building manifolds it's slightly better to underclock the final building in the sequence, but it'

...it's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things

[median heath]

Uh...

It's better to underclock the first building, not the last.

[oblique hollow]

the first one takes the biggest gulp of items

[flat raptor]

how tf do i get to split it that way??
isn't splitters a 50/50 or 33/33/33?
how can i get 26.25 one only one?

first time using this tool, i've done the game in the past but this is the first time i realise overclocking can make these odd split numbers...

wait my bad the smelter uses 30/s i didn't think of that

explains a lot

so i need to wait for it to get full? like a manifold

so this is a long ass manifold to fill i got like 3 other setups like that after 💀

[thorny zinc]

you can underclock the smelter that is doing 26.25 so that it gets full faster but yeah, let it go 50/50 until it backs up and then you're goochie

[scenic elm]

is this some website or some giant image that people take tiny screenshots from or something because this looks really useful if its a website or something so if its that whats the name of the website?

[deep citrus]

this isn't that site but it's another one that I recommend more, satisfactorytools.com

[scenic elm]

ok thanks

[sturdy cypress]

that and SCIM are often used

scim is satisfactory calculator interactive map

idr what the website link is but google that and you will probably find it

[vapid gorge]

1 splitter

[vapid gorge]

it self balances over time if machines are clocked right , also use this tool, it's much much better https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[sturdy cypress]

heres the link https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production

[crimson talon]

Planning my 1/min Adaptive Control Unit for the space elevator

[hushed oriole]

Dayum never seen someone use excel to plan their factory layout before lol but that seems like a good design ngl

[calm flax]

Yeah the reason for caterium board and computer is to remove copper and also use rubber and plastic ins quantities produced by oil. So you can scale it up from mid game at the cost of caterium

[deep citrus]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/thumb/3/31/Biome_Map.jpg/1024px-Biome_Map.jpg

[calm flax]

Its a suggested path

[native anchor]

calculating for Versatile framework, and thats just half the "tree"

[vapid gorge]

a whole tree

[native anchor]

what did you build that on?

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=eDS8Qm6L2tLBRhgPA8Qy

generatred automatically

[little tusk]

You clearly haven’t seen the trees of heavy modular frames and fused modular frames

But it’s fine

[vapid gorge]

they're fine

[native anchor]

I do have the recpe for hmf but I don't have the Manufacturer

[native anchor]

the tree looks fine from far away, but thats:
20 smelters
24 constructors
22 assemblers
11 foundries
3 refineries
4 manufacturers

[vapid gorge]

10hmf per min is a fair few, especially early on

[native anchor]

I just realized thats 5 times

[native anchor]

im not mentally prepared for this

[vapid gorge]

nah, you'll be fine, just find a good location with the materials you need and plan out sections that feed off each other

[native anchor]

I haven't really left the biome I started on lol

[vapid gorge]

You'll get there 🙂

[little tusk]

Hopefully

[vapid gorge]

use the plannerI linked, its a lief saver

[native anchor]

I'm trying not to use QOL tools, since its my first time playing the game, but ig its inevitable at some point

[vapid gorge]

imo? use it now to get used to it and not add an extra complexity later with quite complicated builds.

I can kinda understand doing hand math and getting something out of it - but alt recipes are super useful - and if you want to swap out even 1 alt recipe in a chain to see how that will affect the build and where you might want to do it it could force you to redo teh whole math by hand

[native anchor]

I didn't use this because I didn't know of it, otherwise I would. its more about maps and searching up locations than about math

[native anchor]

it isn't of much pleasure (for me) to spent 15 minutes looking at a complete map of the game looking for the best location for my Compressed Coal power plant (example given)

[native anchor]

but if im going to realiably need 600 iron ore/min at some point, those 15 minutes don't really hurt compared to the 3 hours I would spend looking for that one, perfect, place in game, by exploring and stuff

[vapid gorge]

ah well SFtools doesn't show maps or locations 🙂

[vapid gorge]

you'll unlock vehicles, radar, and blade runners.

sprint slide jump and it won't take nearly that long. And use the node scanner.

oh and over clock miners!

One of hte brilliant things about the tool is you can jsut tweak it down so if you're just short a resource you just shrink the plan a b it 🙂

[native anchor]

I have most of those, Im at tier 4 and have completed (almost) everything I could on AMA

[heavy flicker]

you can make exactly 50.4 uranium fuel rods in satisfactory max

also automating basic crystall is super eazy with manifolds

[deep citrus]

wet concrete

[vapid gorge]

A fantastic alt

[deep citrus]

its only use is sinking water if you need to do that for some reason

[vapid gorge]

sinking waste water is a waste - just reuse it

wet concrete makes 2x as much concrete by just adding a bit of water and if you OC the reff it processes 300 limestone pm , which is amazing

and if you need some more concrete on a location and don't want to import it? fantastic

[pseudo cedar]

The entire point of alts is being able to use what you have

There are places with tons of lime and no water- regular recipe is best there

And there are places with only one lime node and a ton of water- wet concrete wins there

[deft lichen]

this is exactly why the "which alt should I pick" question is nonsense

location determines which recipes are best, among other factors

[deep citrus]

I mean sometimes alts are just a direct upgrade like cast screws

[deft lichen]

disallows combination with steel rod

also, it's better over the default, but is it better than steel screw?

[wind spade]

It's not

[pseudo cedar]

I typically like building high up, so I just set water supply to 0 and let tools figure out the rest, but there are some very good uses for water

[wind spade]

Also how do you define "better"

[deep citrus]

well it's def better then the default

[wind spade]

It's not

[wind spade]

You can also uncheck water 🙂

[pseudo cedar]

It’s better than default rods + default screws yes

[deft lichen]

there are many alts where the tradeoff makes them seem superior, but no alt is objectively superior

[deep citrus]

yes that

[pseudo cedar]

But I use regular screws a ton

[deep citrus]

by saying that cast screws are a direct upgrade I do mean over the default path of making screws

I do recognise the 2 paths of making screws from steel and their utility

[wind spade]

So you're comparing in vacuum, which doesn't make sense

[deep citrus]

well if you have cast screws why would you use the default recipe path for screws instead of just skipping the rods in that case

I'm not saying that things like steel screws are bad

[wind spade]

Because you can have steel rods

[deep citrus]

well yeah but that's a different scenaro than what I'm talking about

if you're just making them from iron

I do also see the utility of steel rods and then screws

[wind spade]

Which is what I said - you're comparing two recipes in vacuum

And default screws have different in/out rates which may make them more useful in some builds

[deft lichen]

@deep citrus just fyi, alt recipe comparisons are a very complex topic

[deep citrus]

if the ratios are the same (which they are) you should be able to underclock/overclock to do things like that no?

[wind spade]

If you have to specify a scenraio in which a recipe is better, you can't say that it's always better

[deep citrus]

well all I'm saying is that it's a really good recipe because it's a direct upgrade in that situation

it's not always better over the other options

[wind spade]

Yes, but not all people like to do that

[deep citrus]

fair enough

[wind spade]

And not all speeds are possible to reach, given limited clock speed precision

In general, comparing two recipes yields no interesting results

Comparing recipe paths on the other hand...

[pseudo cedar]

Okay the difference between 33.333333333333… and 33.3334 is basically nothing lol

[wind spade]

And yet some people prefer to have their production accurate

[median heath]

🙋‍♂️

[pseudo cedar]

I know, but it’s not like you can’t reach the speed. You can, it’ll just be off for about 1 out of 100000 seconds

[deep citrus]

well yeah there's not much use comparing 2 recipes if you don't consider how their requirements could affect the way you make earlier products

[wind spade]

So... you can't 🙂

"2+2 is never 5 unless it's off by 1, then it's 5"

[pseudo cedar]

No, you can. If your input is limited the machine will go sliiiighhtly faster then stop for a second

The overall speed, in the end, is the same

[wind spade]

Speed of production, yeah. I'm talkimg about speed of machine

[pseudo cedar]

Idk it’s not like you can get perfect anyway, circuit board and computer alts will almost always need a like 65.8265…% machine going

[median heath]

No?

Integer building counts.

[pseudo cedar]

Yeah but is that even plausible with the resources on the map?

[deep citrus]

in my staring at random recipes on the wiki for way too long experience you can always line up numbers to be neat

[median heath]

Is that what I built on my last run?

[wind spade]

Yes, definitely

[pseudo cedar]

Default recipes are typically cleaner

Alts can get weird fast

[deep citrus]

eh, it's a mixed bag

[pseudo cedar]

And unless you’re doing sev things computers will typically mean bad numbers

[median heath]

No?

[deep citrus]

but if you just try to line up ratios everything should work out fine

[median heath]

45-81 rule.
Simple.

[wind spade]

And you could build 1/100th of that and still have non-repeating decimals

[deep citrus]

and you shouldn't have to enter wierd numbers into the over/under clocking panels of machines

[pseudo cedar]

Yeah but your output would be 2.75625 computers per minute which is by all counts, a weird number

[median heath]

84% CatCB + 147% Insulated Osc = 98% Crystal (converted)

[deep citrus]

well I always try to do it so everything lines up to a round number

[wind spade]

Why do you care if you have a weird number going to storage?

It's not like it matters if you have 2.5 or 2.4786 going to storage

[pseudo cedar]

Why do you care if you have a weird number on the machine?

[median heath]

We don't.

We care about having a precise number on the machine.

[wind spade]

^

[pseudo cedar]

Precise to the 5th decimal place? That doesn’t impact anything

[wind spade]

To 4th

[median heath]

You're trying to change a boolean into a degree of severity.

Something either is precise within the limits of the game, or it is not.
There is no "kind of" precise.

[wind spade]

And it does impact things, they may just be things you personally don't care about

[pseudo cedar]

Unless you’re watching the power network and scowling when your consumption drops from 72 GW to 71.9996 GW, it doesn’t matter

[median heath]

We aren't debating whether it matters.

We are debating whether it exists.

Which it does. That's the entire point.

Whether or not you care about the existence is on your end, and not something we care if you care about 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

And it would be from 72GW to 71.996 GW

[pseudo cedar]

Yeah I figured that out I know

[deep citrus]

wether you wanna avoid that or not is your choice and both are valid

[pseudo cedar]

I mean… yeah? Sorta? But like… you’ll burn yourself out fast

[wind spade]

Not really

[deep citrus]

I mean you clearly are not interested in doing it

[median heath]

It's been 5 years with zero burnout.
Define "fast"?

[deep citrus]

some people are

[wind spade]

It's just a few extra minutes for planning and then you build the same way

[pseudo cedar]

I was, then I burned out. Lmao

[deep citrus]

well then you don't have to do it

[median heath]

Burn issue 🤷‍♂️

[deep citrus]

it's not your thing

[wind spade]

https://tenor.com/view/ponke-ponkesol-solana-monke-monkey-gif-5737117786461490846

[deep citrus]

what

[median heath]

+5 to Love

[pseudo cedar]

You’re just built different honestly. Not an insult or anything, but the average person, as far as I can tell, will burn out of they decide to do that

[median heath]

It's not even hard... you just follow the rule and it takes care of itself without you ever having to actively think about it.

[pseudo cedar]

What even is the rule?

[wind spade]

inb4 book

[median heath]

Nah.

[wind spade]

inb4 book link