math-and-meta

[wind spade]

capped by coal and oil then

[fierce ruin]

how is fluid reserve being calculated?

[old plover]

what do you mean?

[fierce ruin]

so I have 8 refineries

[wind spade]

one stack of anything, but sometimes it goes above - that's a bug

[fierce ruin]

6 of them have 200 cubic metres reserve and other 2 have only 50

[fierce ruin]

oh i see

[old plover]

Oh really I thought that was modded. Even solids can bug like that? Never encountered this

[fierce ruin]

solids cant

I have mod for bigger stacks

[wind spade]

maybe it increases stack size for fluids as well?

[old plover]

fluids included? In that case seems like the mod is bugged

[fierce ruin]

now that you mention it...

hold up

yep, it's a mod

[oblique hollow]

is this one of those damn mk++ machines?

[fierce ruin]

yes

[oblique hollow]

doesnt surprise me then

fluids stack to 50m³ in vanilla

no matter which production machine

if it has a normal slot and no special buffer, its 50m³

[fierce ruin]

it's from this mod

[fierce ruin]

no buffer, just a long pipe

[oblique hollow]

i dont mean the buildable buffers

[fierce ruin]

oh

[oblique hollow]

i mean the machine-internal buffers

the only production buildings with special integrated buffers are water and oil extractors

those hold 200m³

[oblique hollow]

any reason for this arrangement other than aesthetics?

[median heath]

Because, master Wayne, some men aren't looking for anything logical.
They can't be optimized, condensed, streamlined, or reasoned with.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

[fierce ruin]

yes

balanced as all things should be

[fierce ruin]

I like building genies closer to the sea

[knotty needle]

Question, I'm watching a video about Load Balancing and the guy says "When dealing with prime numbers, things get tricky."
On satisfactory calculator I only see examples of loadbalancing up to 5 and 7... but what if you have to loadbalance 11 or 13? is that even possible?

[deft lichen]

Question: why do you think you need a balancer?

[knotty needle]

Its just a random thought. I build my factories both manifold and loadbalancing. Depending on the situation. But this was just a What IF

[vapid gorge]

There’s probably a tute but why not just clock the machines into NOT a prime number?

You never need to load balance but at least use clocking

[deft lichen]

That's a smart solution actually

Up machine count to 2^n * 3^m and adjust clock speed

I guess this isn't always viable e.g. balancing between freight platforms, which would mean having to change the freight car count

[vapid gorge]

I imagine any load balancing from a vehicle is going to be a pain since deliveries happen in bursts

[deft lichen]

I don't see how it changes anything

It balances when stuff is flowing

Splitters do round robin so the state is kept

[wind spade]

any load balancing is possible by just splitting to more and looping back the extra outputs

but generally load balancing is pointless

[oblique hollow]

for 1 to N, you can always do a loopback.

if its 1 to 11, split evenly into 12, then loop one belt back to the input and merge (needs a bit of extra belt capacity)

[wind spade]

and M:N is worst case "split each into N and then merge each M"

[summer flare]

Yes.

[fierce ruin]

Absolutely fucking not, I am not building that shit. You are better off with a manifold that is made from various different belts and a smart/programmable splitters. E.g. if you need input of 75 items, you place a belt that can handle that. Rest can go further down the line since it will count as overflow

That way you can supply 2-3 machines at once

[velvet shoal]

hey so i have 40 machines each requireing 37.5 of sulfur and coal and 1 that requires 20 sulfur and 20 coal this obviously totals to 1520 required for each but does this mean that i can take 1800 of each resource and split the 600 on each belt between them in two sets of 13 and a set of 15? for instance 600 sulfur on 1 belt which gets manifold split as it goes along to feed 13?

[wind spade]

if you have X on a belt, connect it to machines that need X in total

[velvet shoal]

yes but i have 600 on each belt and each machine requires 37.5

its not practical to split it down into that many belts so will a manifold system work

[wind spade]

clock machines based on belts, not the other way around

[velvet shoal]

greeny.

the machines are clocked based on the end required amount of material

[wind spade]

I'm aware, doesn't change what I mean

[velvet shoal]

so how about instead of saying to do the belts to the machines you just let someone answer my actualy question of will the manifold system work

hey so i have 40 machines each requireing 37.5 of sulfur and coal and 1 that requires 20 sulfur and 20 coal this obviously totals to 1520 required for each but does this mean that i can take 1800 of each resource and split the 600 on each belt between them in two sets of 13 and a set of 15? for instance 600 sulfur on 1 belt which gets manifold split as it goes along to feed 13?

[wind spade]

I'm recommending easier approach

[velvet shoal]

except your not your saying to just put the amount on the belt to the amount in tha machine but im bringing 1800 sulfur to the factory and i need 1520 split between 41 assemblers. so all i am saying is to put the 1800 into 3 belts of 600 and use a manifold system to split that 600 between the correct number of assemblers

[median heath]

Why are you sending 1800 when you need only 1520?

[velvet shoal]

thats all im asking. is will a manifold system work for splitting them

[velvet shoal]

because i am useing 3 pure nodes and id rather have too much than too little

[median heath]

By your own admission, 1800 > 1520.

So... why is there any doubt in your mind about this working?

[velvet shoal]

and because i dont understand manifolds 100% i dont wanna clock it to be the exact 1520 if that wont split correctly on a manifold

[median heath]

Manifolds will exactly split the exact amount you send them.

There is nothing to understand about them 🤷‍♂️

[velvet shoal]

im assuming once theyve filled the assemblers with the stack they will only take what is required and send the rest further down the line ?

[median heath]

Yes.

[velvet shoal]

right ok thank you for actually answering my questions

[median heath]

👍

[fierce ruin]

So 40 assemblers

Each needs 37.5 of coal and 37.5 of sulfur, yes?

That's 3k of total income nonstop

1.5 of coal alone

Vanilla belts can't do that

Split the input in group of 3

That way each group only needs 500 of each resource which belts can handle

[fierce ruin]

That's is if you use mk5

@velvet shoal are you building with expansion in mind?

[fierce ruin]

Do you use any belt mods?

[knotty needle]

My guy 🤩

[velvet shoal]

No I don’t use mods. I’m using mk5 belts and 3 different sulfur miners which can bring the 600 from each miner on their belts and I send 3 lines split between 13 assemblers each with one being sent to 14 full and 1 less clocked one

And I won’t need to expand Turbo fuel power after this as this is to set up the mega factory I need to get into nuclear power

[velvet shoal]

this is what i mean when i say about splitting the line of 600 dont the 13 or in this case 15 assemblers

[fierce ruin]

Oh I see

[velvet shoal]

sorry im not good at explaining things as am dyslexic so i dont know if im saying things right or not

[fierce ruin]

Yeah that's fine

[narrow trail]

planning on detaching myself from the Hub’s biomass burners. (If they can be deconstructed I am moving them! Legit haven’t tried yet. Midway through Tier 2, it’s time for foundations & walls!)

[mystic moon]

The biomass burners on the hub cannot be dismantled

[narrow trail]

Thank you for letting me know. I will retire them with distinction

[versed violet]

I am still using mine to 'recycle' excess biomass whenever the grid is overdrawn.

if their lights go out, its time to inspect power

[narrow trail]

i’m interested about this but I might be too new/smooth brain to understand how your system works. can you explain this a little bit?

[deft lichen]

power consumption priority is all generators > biomass burners > power storages

[exotic flower]

@narrow trail You can use biomass burners as emergency power that will come on if you overdraw, but will not consume Biofuel when you have excess power. I have a few still hooked up, but I flipped the switches off for them because I didn't like the extra line and the inflated capacity it gives, as it's only a temporary capacity since that fuel is not automated. I instead have the power cells/batteries that provide plenty of backup power. Think I have like 50 of those built.

[deft lichen]

there's really no point in doing that once power storages are available though

[narrow trail]

Thanks for the explanations and advice, everyone. I’m playing mostly blind & I’m only on Tier 2 rn, so my horizons have not been expanded and my factory has barely grown

[wind spade]

There's no point in power storages 😛

[leaden pine]

Just don’t mess up and they never do anything

[wind spade]

Even if you mess up, build power so that you can restart it easily

Much better use of time and resources than limited power storages

[crude cedar]

oops

[versed violet]

As mentioned above, the biomass burners will be used before falling to power storage.
So if you come back to hub, and see they have red lights and are empty, it means something have been overdrawing your total grid power.
Keep them visible and you have power problems alert.

[thorn bane]

so like the "power storages are draining" message but worse?

[elfin wyvern]

Power storage can be useful to even out Geyser power but otherwise agree

[paper crypt]

hello im trying to do this setup on my world but i cant figure out why there is no production of empty canisters?

[oblique hollow]

cause they are recycled

[paper crypt]

but from where

[oblique hollow]

packaging

packaged water gets turned 1:1 to packaged fuel

so the canisters are conserved during processing

[paper crypt]

and to get packaged water i need empty canisters
does that mean i need to feed it first a bunch of empty canisters and from there they will be reused?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[paper crypt]

and theres no way to tell how many right?

probably enough to fill the belts i guess?

[oblique hollow]

that and enough to keep the machines stocked

the best thing you can do here is make a BP

[paper crypt]

what is a bp

[oblique hollow]

put a refinery for diluted packaged fuel and 2 packagers in a Blueprint (BP)

[paper crypt]

ah ive never used blueprints before

its those things where u copy paste setups right?

[oblique hollow]

then just put like 50 or so canisters in the water packager and that is guaranteed to keep it running in a loop

[oblique hollow]

well more like "configure a template to be pasted wherever you want" but yes

this is a great use case for them here as making big canister loops would involve hundreds more canisters than probably needed

and that takes time

[paper crypt]

i didnt really understand your instructions so i just made 2 constructors making empty canisters for now : D i'll feed those to the water packagers to jumpstart the system when its all ready

is that a good plan ?

[oblique hollow]

uh sure?

[oblique hollow]

you can try making a blueprint in the blueprint designer so the empty canisters get recycled directly out of each refinery

so you unpackage the output of every refinery individually and then put the canisters straight back into the water packager

[paper crypt]

this packaging thing is so complicated

just noticed the recycled rubber recipe also needs fuel from packaged fuel and that also produces empty canisters

im trying so hard to wrap my brain around this : D

wait it doesnt , fuel unpackager makes liquid

ughh hahaha im too small brain for this

[oblique hollow]

just unpackage fuel immediately after you made diluted packaged fuel

then you dont have to worry about canisters

and pay attention to the item names and shapes

fluids always have a round icon with a pipe symbol inside

[paper crypt]

huh just realised its called diluted packaged fuel , is it just normal packaged fuel but under a different name?

[oblique hollow]

yes

every alt recipe just makes a normal item but in a different way

[paper crypt]

ok this is easier to digest , thank you

im starting to understand

[oblique hollow]

if you ignore the canisters, all this recipe does is turn 60/min water and 30/min heavy oil into 60/min fuel

[paper crypt]

maybe it wasnt such a good idea to make this build after a 6 month break from the game

[oblique hollow]

you could start by just making normal fuel
if you have the alternate recipe: heavy oil residue, you can use it for residual fuel

residual fuel is just the recipe name, the actual item is once again liquid fuel

[paper crypt]

i have all recipes i need for the screenshot i posted , i worked on those before taking the break

[oblique hollow]

ah right

[paper crypt]

no im determined to get this done

thank you for all the help man

[oblique hollow]

it might have been easier if you picked "prettier" numbers 😂

15/min caterium computer for example

[paper crypt]

honestly i had this production sheet from january , i just figured i'd continue where i left off

[oblique hollow]

thats what i used for my factory

[paper crypt]

didnt really look for other sheets

[paper crypt]

do you have a production thingy for this? like the one i posted

[oblique hollow]

the recycling still sucks here unfortunately

with no diluted packaged fuel, you would need 270/min crude oil

[paper crypt]

thats alright im building in the west oil area , 2 pure and 2 normal

[paper crypt]

hey one question , if i dont get the numbers perfectly right , will the system eventually saturate and get stuck because of e.g heavy oil residue build up since its not being used 100% of it?

[thorn bane]

yes you need to prioritize the residual rubber
either by connection it to the start of the rubber lane, or via a prio merger

[oblique hollow]

as with every refinery recipe that makes a fluid and a solid: if one side backs up, the entire refinery stops

you can use overflow sinks to make sure excess rubber gets discarded

[paper crypt]

good idea, will have to figure out how to sink only excess rubber though

[oblique hollow]

smart splitter with overflow setting of course

[thorn bane]

the whole "water hammer" thingy got me thinking
does anyone know how bad pipes are for fps? related to belts
like would i lose fps by switching off of pure recipes, even though that requires more belts?
cause if its an actual realistic fluid simulation, then it has to be quite costly right?

[barren elm]

Currently their pipe algorithm is faster than the belt one

Allegedly

That'll probably change in 1.0

If fps is your concern though, cheat in 10,000 power shards and focus on minimizing the number of machines, direct insertion whenever possible (results in less belts, which currently is better for performance even if it means you need to underclock some machines)

[charred mist]

which one is the best choiced?

[oblique hollow]

depends on what you want
all 3 of these can increase production

bolted iron plate saves space but costs more iron
Copper rotor is faster and quite resource efficient, but needs a lot of screws and copper of course

[onyx perch]

and, being honest, copper early game is so difficult to work with for no good reason

[oblique hollow]

cant really agree there, might depend on where you started and thus you might have a lot of impure nodes nearby

[barren elm]

Copper rotor goes great with steel screws if you have it

[wind spade]

See #math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

If you are at the point where you need the few MW from geysers, better build more power anyway

[onyx perch]

should i? its 16000 MW and i have all the resources

[median heath]

Except it isn't possible.

1280/12 = 106.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666---

And you cannot clock a generator to 2/3

[wind spade]

It is possible on average

[median heath]

No, it isn't.

[wind spade]

Yes, you can produce 16000 MW on average

[median heath]

You can say "It isn't possible, but most people don't care that it isn't possible."

But you cannot say "It is possible."

[wind spade]

But it is. Clock one to .6667% and it will stop sometimes, producing 16000 MW on average

[median heath]

Meaning it isn't possible to clock a generator to 2/3.

[wind spade]

OP wanted to make 16000 MW

Which is possible on average

[median heath]

OP should understand how the game operates and make an informed decision.

[old plover]

It is though, I'm producing 8000MW using turbofuel, I have 53.3333333 generators (materialized in 32 generators overclocked at 166.66..%), and nothing is backing up: no shortage on output end, to backing up input end

[onyx perch]

im basing it off of the amount of fuel i can produce in my current area, which is 1280/min

theres not enough sulfur to make it all turbofuel

and i dont want to set up too many train lines or vehicles yet

[old plover]

no the math is right, what Sevrahn is saying is the game's precision on calculation is limited to 4 decimals therefore you theoretically can't clock a machine with repeating decimals

[onyx perch]

i know

i could just sink that extra 8 fuel/min using a packager

8-ish

[wind spade]

Or clock a bit higher and the gen will stop once in a few hours

[old plover]

you don't need to, my shit's been running for 250 hours with no shortage or backup whatsoever. Take that extra 100MW, it'll cover your hoverpack

[onyx perch]

yeah fluid is odd, itll be fine at 66.67 ig

[jovial wyvern]

And the internal representation of that 4 decimal rate is binary, which cannot precisely represent the decimal value 0.1 as a floating point binary number.

[old plover]

don't write 66.67 though, write 2000/3

[onyx perch]

alr

[median heath]

🙄

[old plover]

YEA HEY SORRY THIS TIME YOU'RE WRONG FOR ONCE OKAY

[median heath]

I'm not, lol.

2/3 isn't a valid clock speed.
2000/3 isn't a valid clock speed either.

You either get 66.6666% or 66.6667%

Neither of which is 2/3

[onyx perch]

oh my god im stupid i think those oil nodes are for the other fuel gen as well

[old plover]

I can believe you but then genuine question, why is my setup full of repeating numbers so perfect? After 250hours all my generators and pipes are full, and my refineries are have no turbofuel in their output internal storage

[onyx perch]

lemme check

hold on, this mightve been for nothing

[median heath]

Because it takes a million cycles for a single blip to happen.
And once that blip happens, it takes another million cycles for the next to happen.

"It isn't possible, but most people don't care that it isn't possible."

☝️

[oblique hollow]

far all intents and purposes
"within tolerance thus reasonably doable, but TECHNICALLY mathematically not doable"

[median heath]

I would change "technically" for "literally", but sure.

[onyx perch]

ok it wasnt for nothing, different nodes

[oblique hollow]

we sure do love our silly little technicalities that might haunt us after 3 years playtime on average

[median heath]

Love has nothing to do with it 🤷‍♂️

🎵 WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO, GOT TO DO WITH IT. 🎶

[oblique hollow]

call it an inconvenient truth cause nobody really wanna hear bout it 😂

[onyx perch]

just went up a hill at 200 km/h on a train, got DCed lol

[median heath]

"Nobody" is incorrect, given there is at least one person 😛

[thorny laurel]

If I need 1.5x of the /min output for a recipe and want to use underclocking, is it more efficient to underclock both machines to 75%, or one at 100% and the other at 50%? Or is it a wash?

[old plover]

both machines at 75%. It's always more power efficient to underclock everything a little bit than one machine a lot

[median heath]

Efficiency in this case is determined by what you, personally, care about.

If power is your metric of efficiency, then 150 machines at 1% is the most efficient, but that can take a lot of space.

If space is your metric of efficiency, then 1 machine clocked to 150% is the most efficient, but will cost you slightly more power.

Those are the 2 extremes, if you lean more to one side than the other, but don't want to full commit, you will land somewhere in the middle.

[covert helm]

you can rocket jump with the boombox super bass and the cooldown is overwritten if you switch to something else allowing you to spam it. So it can become a really effective weapon and Useful utility with enough skill and timing. (early access)

[gray violet]

how much iron would an average person need in end game, cause im linking every node in the desert with mk2 miners and its around 12150 ore

[sand epoch]

As much as they decide to use...

You can get by with only 1 node if you REALLY want to.

[gray violet]

u can get away with 1 node and automating everything?

[vapid gorge]

Just very low parts per min

Don’t forward plan though that way lies only pain

[gray violet]

well this kind of pain is something i enjoy

[vapid gorge]

It’s more that if you solve forwards it becomes a gigantic ass mess that will soft lock you into using specific recipes instead of potentially more useful ones and that you can’t plant for the layout.

Also as you sound new it’ll probably be logistic hell since going up the tiers is how you learn you like to organize things.

Also for mega factories double how much of an issue it is

[real palm]

multiple isolated factories are better than a mega factory

megafactories are logistics hell

if you still want all your stuff in one spot you can use whatever means you'd like to move the items from factories into a centralized storage (running across the map and back becomes less of an issue once you have hypertubes involved)

[wind spade]

Make a logistic train, no reason to run across the map 🙂

[real palm]

that also works

[paper crypt]

Can i use a valve to get these exact fluid numbers?

like the fuel and the water

[vapid gorge]

Safest option is clocking a group of machines that produce the exact number and have an independent manifold

[wind spade]

Also residual rubber better than residual plastic

[wind spade]

Personally i recommend to never use valves

[paper crypt]

@oblique hollow i finally finished it , its a shit show but it works ! thanks for all the tips and help , much appreciated

[oblique hollow]

btw, for pipes it doesnt really matter if you connect the junctions like you do belts or if you just do a straight line

Fluid flows bith ways so it goes where it wants to

[vapid gorge]

You can’t realistically load balance pipes if that’s what you’re trying? More likely to cause an issue

[paper crypt]

hahaha yes i was , i now realise that was dumb

i took a 6 month break so i forgot some of the mechanics

[shy night]

Hey guys, how's the efficiency on a chain of splitters per furnace like this? It's mostly for the sake of space but I don't know if it provides a proper count of resources to all furnaces like the splitter layout above from the other person

[paper crypt]

if you input more than the furnaces can handle my guess is they will get saturated eventually so it doesn't matter
if you're not however , some of the furnaces will probably always be empty

[shy night]

I'm inputting exactly the amount they need, is that a problem?

I'm assuming that won't work, cause it's not spread evenly

[paper crypt]

in that case im not sure , like i said above i did the same with my coal generators but i was inputting more coal than they were burning so eventually the belts got saturated

[shy night]

Hm, I'll try it out, if it doesn't work I guess I'm using that third shard on my Copper node..
Too bad it's the only Copper node in like a kilometer radius

Thanks

[paper crypt]

my guess is since you're inputting exactly the same amount as they can handle , they will still get saturated?

you could always just do an equal splitter , doesn't take much

[shy night]

It doesn't take much resources, just space that I don't have

[paper crypt]

ah , well get them running and monitor them , only way to find out

[shy night]

Yupyup

[wind spade]

No

No matter how much you input, manifilds will always behave at max possible efficiency

[gray violet]

im trying to make a super computer factory, what recipes would be best, other than the obvious ones like the pure ingot

i want which alt circuit board, computer recipes

i have a triple oil plant making 900 rubber n 900 plastic

my plan is pure ingots, iron wire, steamed sheets, fused quickwire, normal circuit, cater comp, normal highspeed conn and normal super comp

[true junco]

My prefference for super computers is default super computer fed by caterium computer. Because caterium computers at 100% makes exactly the amount of computers needed by default super computers at 100%.

More specifically i put 2 manufacturers into a single BP with the catcomp feeding the supercomp. Incidentally you can also fit assemblers in that same BP to feed ai limiters and quickwire.

It can be a bit congested tho. Its possible to put 4 assemblers and 2 manufacturers into 1 BP and interconnect everything.

[ancient ingot]

does anyone know how i can do this?

im working with a truck station so the output won't be a constant

[royal yacht]

you could make that side a mk4 belt and then make it a smart splitter with left on overflow

and then as long as the input is a mk4 or higher it'll put 480 on the right as long as possible and then the rest on the left

[true junco]

Smart splitter. Anything goes right. Overflow left. Whatever is consuming the 480 on the right will not take more than 480 (after saturation) and the remainder will go left.

[wind spade]

You could separate the spurce into two, one making 480, one making rest

[true junco]

That source may be a single machine. Mk3 miner overclocked on a pure node for example.

[old plover]

That doesn't work in a lot of scenarios

Well it'll work but just the same way a normal splitter works

[wind spade]

Add a buffer for loading and unloading and then you can assume it's constant

[crude cedar]

Is converting fuel to turbofuel worth it for power generators? Im torn on just taking my 1600 fuel a minute and chucking it at a bunch of generators or converting to turbofuel and getting over double the ammount of power. Is it worth the extra logistics and work, or do I go with just fuel and go nuclear soon here?

[desert oxide]

Depends on how much power you need, to kickstart my nuclear I built over 30GW of fuel (not turbo) because I knew it was temporary but I also needed a crapload of power to get nuclear online. Used power storages as well for burst handling as the nuclear build is 625GW and required about 110GW (heavy overclocking) or so to make all of the parts necessary to run it along with the logistics.

[wind spade]

it makes more power at the cost of extra coal and sulfur. Something not really worth in my opinion, given how much power can fuel generate (and after that how much power can nuclear generate)

(and imo power storages are a waste of time)

[old plover]

What Gunter said. I systematically transform fuel into turbofuel because I find it fun. Though 1600/min should get you going for a good amount of your playthrough, depending on your playstyle

[crude cedar]

Interesting, I probably should just go for the turbofuel then. We have completed everything pre 3rd elevator phase and are drawing about 8000mw of power at the moment. I have 4kmw coal and 7kmw fuel right now.

[wind spade]

7k of fuel is way more than you'll ever need to reach nuclear

[crude cedar]

I should have prefaced my question with, there are 5 players and im the only one that works on power. we have had power struggles the entire game so far.

[royal yacht]

after the current 1.0 changes, would you guys still be saying it's not worth it out of interest?

[old plover]

If it's your job then why are you slacking here? Get on with that turbofuel setup or else

[wind spade]

given we don't know recipe changes, hard to say

[royal yacht]

just based on the fuel gen changes I mean

[wind spade]

if all recipes stayed the same (they won't), then yes, I'll still be saying the same. Fuel gens change is basically just free overclocking and nothing else, you only build less gens, that's the only change it does

[old plover]

you'll get the same amount of power with the same amount of fuel, we'll just have to build less generators (right? I got that right, right?)

[royal yacht]

fair enough

[vapid gorge]

diluted fuel is fine - do turbo fuel if you want to use it in a recipe or jetpack or think the logistics is fun imo

[tepid rain]

Yet the devs have said that isn't the case? It's not free overclocking. Rates will go up by 5/3 (Fuel 12->20 m3, Turbofuel 4.5->7.5 m3). That is why you will need less. You would only need 30 instead of 50 fuel gens for normal fuel. Or only 12 if each was 250% overclocked.

[median heath]

No.

12 Fuel/min currently gives 150 MW

• 150 / 12 = 12.5

20 Fuel/min will give 250 MW

• 250 / 20 = 12.5

Fuel per MW is not changing.

[median heath]

"not the fuel energy" is the critical words you seem to be ignoring.

[tepid rain]

Your not grasping what I am saying. The fuel needed is going up from 12 to 20, and turbo 4.5 to 7.5.

[median heath]

you only build less gens, that's the only change it does

This being greeny's point, is 100% accurate.

Yet the devs have said that isn't the case? It's not free overclocking.

This was your counterpoint, this is incorrect.

Rates go up when you overclock, and you get more MW from the same generator.

That is exactly what this change is doing.

They basically took all Fuel generators and OC'd them to 1+2/3 and put them back.

[tepid rain]

"Fuel gens change is basically just free overclocking and nothing else, you only build less gens, that's the only change it does" a.k.a the only change is how much power the generates make. Ignoring that the fuel amounts have also changed, not just the power they make. So it's not a 'free' over clock. It's not as simple as 'to make the same power your making in update 8 you need less, yet stick with what you have and your power doubles'. The fuel need will also go up.

[median heath]

It is a free overclock...

Because overclock changes both power and consumption.
You're get a 2/3 OC without spending a shard. That's the "free" aspect of it.

"Fuel gens change is basically just free overclocking and nothing else, you only build less gens, that's the only change it does"

a.k.a the only change is how much power the generates make. Ignoring that the fuel amounts have also changed

No, "free overclocking" is not "aka only about power", it is fully meaning both power and consumption, because that's what overclocking is.

When he says "free overclocking" he is ignoring nothing. He is fully referencing both aspects of the change.
And "free" refers only to you not needing to use a shard for this increase in both production and consumption.

[old plover]

U8: I'm producing 600 fuel/min. I need 50 fuel generators to consume it, each at a rate of 12/min. I'm producing 7500MW
1.0: I'm producting 600 fuel/min. I need 30 fuel generators ton consume it, each at a rate of 20/min. I'm producing 7500MW

[tepid rain]

Yes... I know that. But a lot of people took the vid post on the changes that 'we are getting double the power for the same fuel in our existing setups'. Just like the post I copied the answer snip from.

[gray violet]

anyone know why i dont see colors?

[median heath]

Pain.

[wind spade]

Fuel needed is not the change. Generators do not have "fuel needed per minute" property, they only have "power generated", which is the only changed thing. Fuel burn rate depends on many factors and is calculated by the game, it's not set anywhere.

And as explained, even if you consider burn rate as a property that changes, "overclocking" the generators does change that property

[oblique hollow]

Nobody here is disagreeing here from what i read, everyone is just arguing on the silliest way to interpret the change

Yes technically a generator making 250 MW and using 20/min fuel is equivalent to one in the current balance thats clocked to 166.6666%, meanings its technically now "overclocked by default" without really being overclocked

[wind spade]

"free overclocking" is silly?

[oblique hollow]

It is a goofy way to put it
it is an analogy

[wind spade]

it's a way to show people confused from Snutt's video how it works

[oblique hollow]

Its not what literally happened.
But it can be thought of like as if it were

[wind spade]

Fuel gens change is basically just free overclocking and nothing else, you only build less gens, that's the only change it does
this sounds like it describes what the change does 🤔

[oblique hollow]

Technically, it is analogous to that

Just like how you could change the recipe time of like... iron plates from 2 seconds to 1 and call that a "free 200% overclock"

(dont correct me on the time here i do not know the timer for iron plates and do not care)

A disagreement on the method but the effect is the same (i know constructor clocking affects power but i disregard that here as i said "free overclocking")

[deft lichen]

[amber umbra]

The fuel generator change I feel two ways about. On the one hand needing fewer fuel gens makes it easier to build, fit in a location. On the other the huge generator counts needed push towards vertical stacking of generators to solve the space issue.

Although not a huge shift on those metrics w the change so seems not that big a deal either way.

[vagrant adder]

well the majority of places with oil are surrounded by a tonne of space anyway, so I don't think space is really a big issue for it

but I think the change is good in the sense that a big fuel farm is most peoples first "large scale" project, and having things slightly smaller will help newer players troubleshoot it a bit better

[amber umbra]

True. It’s possible the original scaling requiring so many generators was more about forcing automation of the required materials to build them. Really hard force automation.

[vagrant adder]

ye

[amber umbra]

The changes to HMF, computer do point more in that direction.

[vagrant adder]

I think the timegate of that was definitely a factor in it

[amber umbra]

I’m sure the devs have player data showing a gigantic drop off at the HMF area or something. I wouldn’t be surprised at least.

[vagrant adder]

wouldn't surprise me

[vapid gorge]

if they drop off at HMF then they aren't going to make it the rest of the way

they really aren't hard

[vagrant adder]

perhaps, but softening the learning curve slightly isn't really harmful in any way, and if there's a chance that helps more people stick around longer without getting overwhelmed then why not go for it

[vapid gorge]

@bleak kiln

what are you trying to do?

please jsut use per minute numbers, nothing else matters

do yo uwant to feed the packager more or less than 40 fuel per min?

[bleak kiln]

Literally just packaged fuel.

Look, I have a 400 input. I literally do not want to stick in another shard to make it reach 400 as I only have 396 usage. Now, I want to package off the rest (so I can possibly use it elsewhere) so I want that 4/min only from the packager.

[vapid gorge]

ok so is 4 per minute less than 40 pm?

[bleak kiln]

🤦‍♂️ Which is why I asked again, "I downclock the packager to 10%, and the number says 4 per minute (on the input). It will use 4m^3 of fuel per minute?"

As such.

[clear wren]

yes..

[vagrant adder]

yes

[vapid gorge]

yeah it really wasn't clear

[bleak kiln]

Thank you. Great.

[vapid gorge]

where was teh 2 coming from?

[clear wren]

the numbers in brackets is what it will use when it starts the next cycle

[vapid gorge]

ok but you need to include the whole recipe per min because we have no idea if you need to downclock from that info in the image

[bleak kiln]

Not having images sincerely does make things a bit more annoying to convey in words in the main channel.

[vapid gorge]

ignore images - just use pm numbers.

[dawn hill]

Also it's easier if you just say "4 fuel per minute"

[vapid gorge]

make everything per min - no need for conversions

you'll drive yourself nuts

[bleak kiln]

It easily made sense when it was just conveyors, Just brainfreeze with fluids ok.

[dawn hill]

Ye just treat fluids like anything else and it's easy

[bleak kiln]

All right.

[vapid gorge]

in terms of numbers

don't treat fluids like they are on belts

[dawn hill]

I think what u mean to say is dont treat pipes like belts

[vapid gorge]

'fluids like they are on belts' still talks about movement there of

[dawn hill]

I mean fair, pipes are definitely different than belts, easier I would say

[vagrant adder]

definitely wouldn't say they are easier since there is way more going on mechanically :p

[leaden pine]

As long as you aren’t causing sloshing

[wind spade]

sloshing always happens

[leaden pine]

U8 has forced me to use valves and buffers way more often to get consistent behavior

[leaden pine]

A vertical pipe section doesn’t slosh

[dawn hill]

Never heard of sloshing.. wtf is that supposed to mean xd

[vagrant adder]

it means they are bi-directional

and when fluid hits a "wall" at one end, it starts going back the other way

[wind spade]

you can't build just out of vertical pipes though

[dawn hill]

Never had a problem with pipes not doing what I wanted just by sticking em together, but I also always build clean af pipe networks lol#

[vagrant adder]

so long story short, a long, straight manifold won't work because fluid is more inclined to flow back towards the start than towards the end

[dawn hill]

Okay now that is weird, those kind of manifolds always worked for me

[leaden pine]

When fluid gets removed or added to the pipe network that takes game ticks to propagate. As the levels in individual sections change that impacts the flow of adjacent sections when they try to reach equilibrium. This can lead to parts of the network getting starved even though there is enough flow in the network

[clear wren]

wait it does ?

[wind spade]

the issue usually happens with higher amounts of fluid (closer to pipe max)

[dawn hill]

I mean I have pipes running 100% load and split em, but I also make sure to use 100% of it

[wind spade]

yes, same as IRL - if you go into a bath tub, water wave reaches end of bath and then turns back

[clear wren]

lol good point

[dawn hill]

Also the "end" of my pipes is always in a machine that needs the exact amount of water left over, maybe that's why I never had issues with it

[wind spade]

that doesn't help

[vagrant adder]

as long as you fully flood them, and downwards feed the machines, it shouldn't really be an issue

[dawn hill]

Well guess I have magic pipes in that case 😂

[wind spade]

machines don't eat fluid over time, they eat it in batches

[vagrant adder]

but if you try and feed them going up / level, then you will get bad sloshing

[wind spade]

sloshing by itself does not matter if you have network well built

[leaden pine]

If you have a 100% utilization pipe that isn’t fully pressurized at all times… you’ll have a bad time

[wind spade]

sloshing only matters when it can reduce throughput of a pipe

[clear wren]

input 228.6 water pm on 6 refinery + 300 water(from making alu scrap)
but i need ~ 422.4 water from my extractors.

how does that math, i thought it would of been the same as the inputs

my 3rd water extractor is only putting out 6pm
i tried 12pm but the line eventually stopped

i should be needing ~1071.6 pm of water.
but i'm only sending 428.4 from my extractors.

[oblique hollow]

Well......

It does but i guess it also depends on if you have it be only vertical or kinda L shaped

pure vertical pipes do oscillate up and down just as much when they receive a push of fluid

[leaden pine]

My understanding is that if the sections ‘below’ are not full and there is sufficient head pressure that the amount that can flow up is 0. The ‘tail’ of a vertical section (ie the part actually moving to fluid to a machine) could slosh while the ‘bubble’ gets removed but it shouldn’t push the vertical section up ever.

Ideally the simulation wouldn’t let the bubble be created in a full pipe… but I don’t think it works that way

[oblique hollow]

yeah pipes have to be able to fill and empty

There is no prevention of "vacuum bubbles"

[narrow trail]

i am simply.. i don’t know how tall my factory will be but i know i’m doing a LOT of deconstructing tonight

[wind spade]

build the machines first and then encase them in a building

[narrow trail]

Very true, thank you! i’m going to try that this time around for sure

I need to unlock some kind of system to be able to put conveyor belts through a foundation, as well. That will help a ton as I currently have to leave spots foundation-less to move resources between floors
edit: Awesome shop & build gun (I think) here I hecking come

[dusty river]

yeah i have alot of that todo for the advance plates for the elevator

gonna be a massive pain

[gray violet]

is there a way to calculate the exact overclock percentage i need, example here is i want the input to be 15 per minute

i can do it by changing the OC number til i find it

but surely theres a way to calc it

[wind spade]

[required number] / [normal number] * 100

[gray violet]

wow thats alot more simpler than i thought, i thought it was going to require some algebra, ty

[narrow trail]

i believe in us.. time to make dozens of leftover crates on the foundations! :’D

[dusty river]

yep

[velvet shoal]

ok if i am producing 46.875 turbo fuel. and a 250% overclocked generator takes 11.25. then i need 4.166667 generators for the turbo fuel. what underclock would the 5th generator require? how can i figure this out. ( FYI i will be distributing the turbofuel using a manifold system.)

[wind spade]

41.6667%

[velvet shoal]

is that from the equasion you gave the guy earlier?

[wind spade]

well, 4.1 machines = 4 at 100% + 1 at 10%

[velvet shoal]

thats 4 machines at 250% ^

[wind spade]

easiest way to do clocked machines is to start at 100% machines

[barren elm]

Should be 41.66% (250% total clock speed * 0.1667) but why bother? (edit: been a while, it's not +250% it's just 250%)

[wind spade]

figure out how much 100% machines you need

and then calculate from that

46.875 TF / 4.5 consumption = 10.41666... gens or 1041.6666...%
if you build 4 at 250%, remaining is one at 41.6667%

[velvet shoal]

greeny... with 250% overclock the calculator says i already need 168+ machines im not working in regular 100% machines

[wind spade]

I'm aware, I'm saying that the math gets easier if you start at 100% clock speed machines

not that you actually build them

[lethal cave]

"I'm not procrastinating. I'm planning"

In all seriousness, it seems that a single car can only handle a Mk.5 belt of 50 stack items in a narrow roundtrip time window regardless of how many trains you add to the same route. Is my math correct? (I used 50 seconds as the duration the station is occupied for with each train)

[leaden pine]

There is a peak flow rate per car defined by the feeding belt speed and the cargo load and unload time.

To maximize the station you want a train coming by at exactly the time the station can fully load a car and to always fully unload at the destination.

Last I looked the wiki had some of this mathed out already and the load/unload time is a bit shorter if memory serves.

[lethal cave]

I made these graphs because I was wondering whether it was possible to select, given a fixed target throughput, a number of freight cars that works for all roundtrip times up to some maximum roundtrip time. That way I can design the source station with sufficient throughput before I know where in the world the destination station will be. It seems to me that such a universal approach won't work for a Mk. 5 belt of 50 stack items, because each peak quickly falls off below 780 to either side. But maybe I made an obvious error, so I'm wondering if that conclusion sounds right.

[leaden pine]

At a certain point when the round trip time becomes longer you just add a second train

And build your stations with a holding spot to allow for both trains to be there at the same time.

[oblique hollow]

27 seconds is the docking time

during which theres no item flow

[lethal cave]

Oh, right ... for some reason I thought I had to plan for the number of trains in advance.

[median heath]

Maximums
50 per Stack
-88.62s RtD
-1083.3 Items/min

100 per Stack
-150.16s RtD
-1278.66 Items/min

200 per Stack
-273.23s RtD
-1405.4 Items/min

500 per Stack
-642.46s RtD
-1494.25 Items/min

Fluid Trains
-107.08s RtD
-896.52 Items/min

[leaden pine]

Rail yards can get very large very quick, which is annoying… but whatever

[oblique hollow]

might wanna change fluid train to m³/min

nobody measures those in items/min

[lethal cave]

Yes, I'm taking that number into consideration. 50 seconds is the time the station block is occupied, when no other train can enter.

[median heath]

No. It is the one thing I have to poke at greeny with 😊

[oblique hollow]

maniac

[median heath]

That doesn't affect the throughput of the station though.
What matters is the 27.08s window where the platforms are locked out.

[oblique hollow]

seev, thats their 50 seconds

they used 50 instead of 27.08 x 2

[median heath]

I could change it to 896,520 L/min 😉

[lethal cave]

It affects that straight line in my graph, where there are too many trains in the circuit, so the load time between each train is reduced to 50 - 27.08 s.

[oblique hollow]

change it to tons / min for the meme

[leaden pine]

Do it in acre*ft

[median heath]

How many trains are docking with this one, individual station?

[lethal cave]

That's what the different colors / numbers represent.

[median heath]

Pretend I am not a visual learner and give me a number? 😭

[oblique hollow]

1 to 14

[median heath]

(My brain does not do graphs)

[oblique hollow]

it literally shows the number of trains for each curve

[median heath]

So the graph covers 27.08s-379.12s?

[oblique hollow]

over a round trip time of up to 20 minutes it seems

[median heath]

👍

[oblique hollow]

sooo seems to check out

[median heath]

Seem likes "too many trains, reevaluate logistical strategy" if I am completely honest.

[fierce ruin]

384174957104571058294198402847195828392515917491957195817491957195719582759195719591848938292839285729519571927501471 trains Docking with this one individual station🫡 (joking ofc. Im just bored)

[lethal cave]

Well, at least my peaks agree. That's comforting.

[median heath]

As long as you made a footnote that fluid trains are better than freight when transporting liquids 😉

[oblique hollow]

now graph the worst case scenario of one train docking right after another, leaving basically no time to unload items

[lethal cave]

Isn't there an option to wait for cars to get completely filled? I though that balances the route out.

[oblique hollow]

if only that worked

its broken

also why is 780/min the minimum throughput?

[lethal cave]

Oh no. Should I just do single train per route, with low throughput per individual car?

[leaden pine]

I thought it was working briefly at least. Did they break it again?

[median heath]

Minimum throughput should be like... 0.001, or whatever the slowest item running at 1% is.

[leaden pine]

I know I had the trains waiting for loads working at some point in U7.

[lethal cave]

It's minimum at around 710 in the case of too many trains per route, in which case there are always trains queued up in front of the station. So the loading time between trains becomes 50 - 27.08, and assuming 2 Mk. 5 belts coming in from a storage box. It goes below that value above the peak, when roundtrip time gets higher.

[oblique hollow]

right so thats just cause you set a minimum wait time of 50 seconds?

[lethal cave]

Yes, exactly.

[oblique hollow]

imma assume then it worsens with no wait time

[lethal cave]

Appears so. At a wait time of 27.08 throughput drops to 0.

[median heath]

Is "50 seconds" the total time between 1 docking animation ending and the next beginning?

Need to rephrase that, one sec.

[lethal cave]

It's the interval between two trains docking.

The minimum interval possible.

[median heath]

So time from "choo" to next lockout beginning?

Or time from lockout beginning to next lockout beginning?

[lethal cave]

Time from choo to another choo. An arbitrary number. I'm basically assuming that the train spends extra 11.5 seconds slowing down before docking and extra 11.5 seconds accelerating after docking in the station block.

[median heath]

Min throughput at 50s is 715.104 with mk5's.

(the 710 was bothering me)

[lethal cave]

I do:

train_throughput = throughput / ntrains
actual_roundtrip = max(roundtrip, ntrains * STATION_TIME)
train_fill = train_throughput * actual_roundtrip
within_capacity = train_fill <= 32 * STACK_SIZE
fill_time = train_fill / (780 * 2 / 60)
available_time = actual_roundtrip / ntrains - 27.08
within_interval = fill_time <= available_time

[median heath]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Train_throughput

2 conditionals, 2 formulas.

[lethal cave]

Sorry, I just gave an approximate reading from the graph.

[median heath]

McGalleon is the one who approximates.

I deal in exact. 😭

[oblique hollow]

only the Sev deal in absolutes

[median heath]

Indeed.

The official religion stamped into my actual dog tags from my time in the service is "Sith Lord."

[oblique hollow]

Seethe Lord

[gray violet]

this manifold should work right? or do i need a smart splitter

[calm mauve]

it will work, they justtake time to fill up the machines

[vapid gorge]

as long as you hve the throughput on belt and feeding teh right amount - yes

Although I've run into a very niche issue with branching belt manifolds to multiple refineries that also needed fluids

[mint dew]

@vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

hard to tell - you might have the first pump too high up

[mint dew]

so i should just move the coal gen next to that water and run cables to my base

[vapid gorge]

that's generally easier - did you start in the grassy fields?

[mint dew]

yea

[vapid gorge]

if you head NW over the hills you'll find a cliff with a small circular lake behind it with 4 nodes of coal. Prob the easiest place for it

use the coal thats near your factory for steel 🙂

[mint dew]

that is where the lake is belive

[vapid gorge]

can't quite tell from the image - is there 4 coal nodes near the water?

[mint dew]

i think

[vapid gorge]

yeah just use those 🙂 moving fluids long distances is generally a pain, 10x as much of a pain if you're not used to fluids and general trouble shooting

[mint dew]

is thier any good movment things in the elar game

[sand epoch]

Yea he's building up the ramp around the lake

[vapid gorge]

bladerunners - research in the MAM

[sand epoch]

Also cart

[mint dew]

is their a way to connect 2 water pumps into 1

[vapid gorge]

extractor or pump?

[mint dew]

extactor

[vapid gorge]

looks like you did that in the image

[sand epoch]

The merge?

[mint dew]

idk because it says that it splits itto 3

[vapid gorge]

where?

[sand epoch]

Don't think of pipes like belts.. ever

[vapid gorge]

you merged the pipe here

split it later however you like

[mint dew]

idk it kinda just let it go in

inf power

[vapid gorge]

imo find 3-4 coal nodes and use them all for coal power

!wikisearch coal_generator

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=coal_generator

[vapid gorge]

some examples of basic pipe set ups

[mint dew]

yea so basic

[calm mauve]

i generally do the top one of those examples

[mint dew]

um ...

[vapid gorge]

3 extractors linked to 8 gens.

[sand epoch]

I sense sarcasm.. but they are basic

[mint dew]

yeaq

[calm mauve]

first time is always the hardest. second time it becomes basic

[mint dew]

i mean now i have a inf souce of power

can i have all the gens hooked up to 1 power line

[vapid gorge]

can and should

keep 1 line out of your power station to your factory so you can disconnect if needed

[mint dew]

@vapid gorge do u have a pic of it ingame

[vapid gorge]

prob find one in google images? but it's exactly like hte layout in the link

essentially you just need to make sure the water comes in at different points because 3 extractors make 360 water and a mk1 pipe can only hand 300

[mint dew]

the 3 extractors make 360

and the pipes can only handle 300

[vapid gorge]

that's what I said yes 🙂

[mint dew]

got it

[vapid gorge]

if they come in at different points then no segment of pipe needs to move more than 300 water

[mint dew]

i have inf power now hehe

is the yellow pipes

@vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

yes 🙂 there should be a legend in the link

[mint dew]

erm

i dont like reading

[vapid gorge]

click the link and scroll down to the variou images that explain things, and you'll have to read tool tips and things to figure out how to do things. Especially with fluids

[mint dew]

ah ok ty

@vapid gorge for my pipes would i need 2 extrators for 6 and the last one does 2

[sand epoch]

If only there were an image explaining how to best lay it out.. :/

[mint dew]

but lioke

[vapid gorge]

pls do the math

tehre's a reason why it's set up like this

so how much water does 2 extractors make and how much water does 6 gens use?

[median heath]

45 * 6 = 270
2 * 120 = 240

270 = 240 👍👍

[jovial wyvern]

True, for very large values of 240.
Thinking about it a bit more, also true, mod30.

[mint dew]

it should look like this right

[median heath]

No, because now your belts are clipping through your pipes.

[calm mauve]

appart from the clipping, which is a question of style, yes thats the layout your after

[jovial wyvern]

It should function just fine like it is. If you want the Sevrahn Seal of Approval, use conveyor lifts at the inputs to the coal generators to get your coal manifold line up above the level of the pipes so nothing clips into anything else. 😁

[mint dew]

i tryed to use them but it would to flip the outher way so i can feed it in

[mint dew]

@jovial wyvern would the spliter be slowing it down becase i have 2 coal mines at 60 per min but not all of mine are online

[calm mauve]

manifolds take time to fill up the buffer in each machine

as long as you have 120 incoming it will be fine after waiting a bit

[mint dew]

ok

[median heath]

Prefeed manifold = zero fill time, instant start up.

[mint dew]

it was not filling so i had to do that

now i have my first good inf power

[mint dew]

my last 3 are not geting filled with coal any ideads

like my first 2 are hoging most of it

i am thinking it is the spliters

[wind spade]

You either didn't prefill manifold or are using mk1 belts

[mint dew]

i am useing mk2

[mint dew]

what is a manifold

[wind spade]

What you built

[mint dew]

oh

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[mint dew]

it just that the first like 4 use most of the moveing coal before my outher ones can

even get it

would i just need to get anouther mine down

i found it

i feel sad now

the start was a mk1 belt

[vapid gorge]

make each miner to generator section independent - no reason to mix them and you'll get faster belts and miners soon anyway and will have to rip it up

[wind spade]

Or won't, just split after each miner 🙂

[mint dew]

then i would have to run like 250m of pipe 100p up and what noit

i just got coal so idk

[vapid gorge]

sounds like they are merging miners

[vapid gorge]

I don't know what that means

[wind spade]

Yeah and that's fine

[mint dew]

the coal spot is like 250m away

[vapid gorge]

I thought yo uwere putting up coal gens nextd to the lake?

[mint dew]

idk

[vapid gorge]

anyway I'm sure you'll sort it out

[mint dew]

why not do it this way beacuse then i would only get the power of 2 gens

[vapid gorge]

from your description I have no idea how you've actually set up tbh

and 'only getting power from 2 gens' makes it even more confusing how it must be set up

[mint dew]

beacuse from what i am reading u are saying to put a gen next to a mine

[wind spade]

No

[vapid gorge]

no I was just suggesting not merging miners together - which is what you were doing. It's not wrong but will probably need more work later.

[wind spade]

It won't need more work later really, you can just split after miner

[mint dew]

Why because then I can’t get them into 1 belt

[vapid gorge]

tapping out, you'll sort it out and figure out how you like it set up

[mint dew]

Are u saying to put 4 gens into 1 mine instead of having them together

Cus this is what it is

[vapid gorge]

no nescasarily you could run two belts - but what I'd do is over clock 1 miner to use a full mk2 belt

have you looked at the mam much yet?

[mint dew]

I just need to draft up some stuff

Then I have it

[vapid gorge]

you can unlock 'overclocking' which makes machines work faster - in the case of miners, they mine more ore. Most of the game your belts will limit how much you can mine

well then you can set 1 miner to mine 120 I'm sure 🙂

[mint dew]

Oh ur saying to overclock 1 so it produces.120 a min so I don’t have to use a mearger

And I can add like 8 more

[vapid gorge]

tha could also work 🙂 make both miners make 120

having 48+ coal gens before doing anythign with fuel is very reasonable

and the machines you unlock will use more and more power

[mint dew]

I mean for now 600 is a lot for me

I am ushering like 115

[vapid gorge]

btw - while building you can hold ctrl to make machines snap next to each other. Make your water extractors more neat and take up less space

[vapid gorge]

you'll go past 600 very quickly

but yeah gl 🙂 you'll figure it out

[mint dew]

How do I get the yellow power slug

That all I need

[wind spade]

Find it

[mint dew]

Well shut

[vapid gorge]

at some point you can use the hand scanner to find them. I don't remember when that is though

[wind spade]

The game is about exploration 🙂

[clear wren]

why can't i overlock belts to make them transfer stuff faster 😦

[vapid gorge]

You can, it’s called upgrading them

[median heath]

[clear wren]

mk5 isn't fast enough lol

[median heath]

It is more than.

[vapid gorge]

Have more belts

And/or feed them into a system that is next door

[clear wren]

the full belt run can only move as fast as it's first link

if i could attach a splitter directly to the ouput and have two belts run from there that would be neat. but i can't do that 😦

[vapid gorge]

Ugh miners? I hope they reduce pure nodes to 780 to stop people bitching

[median heath]

Double output plz

But if they make a mk6 I may consider uninstalling...

[vapid gorge]

I hope they reduce pure nodes to 600 😛 spite, its powerful

[wind spade]

Double output still needs the priority output thing fixed

[median heath]

Precisely.
That's why I want it. For what it fixes in other areas of the game.

[thorn bane]

just put a balancer after it 🤷

[median heath]

Fixing the priority for dual output makes balancers simpler as well. Given all ISCs immediately become 2:2 balancers.

Which would be a nice buff to the balancer community imo 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

And Factorio players can finally be pointed to an actual 2:2 balancer

"Any splitters like factorio"
"Industrial Storage Container"
"what"
"Industrial. Storage. Container"

[vapid gorge]

Let them suffer 😛

[river night]

isnt a 2:2 balancer relatively easy already

[median heath]

I'm out here trying to turn a damn leaf over and be nice for once... 😭😭😭😭

[vapid gorge]

Burn them all

[wicked tinsel]

that will only work if they finally implement the box limits

[royal yacht]

Imma ask the question for all those not into the meta, what’s the priority thing?

[median heath]

Define "thing"?

[royal yacht]

.

[median heath]

ISCs have 2 outputs. But when both are connected, it is not an even split between them. One always has priority over the other. And which has priority can randomly switch every time you load the game.

[royal yacht]

By priority though what do you mean? Like one in every ten will come out the priority one twice or?

[median heath]

Instead of a 50/50 split, you have like a 52/48 split, for example.

[royal yacht]

Ahh ok so yeah just a little more balanced on one side

[median heath]

Unbalanced*

[vapid gorge]

but it doesn't have the same unbalance - it changes afaik

[wind spade]

or even 100/0

[true junco]

I found that ISCs are not as useful as i expected them to be when i first unlocked them. IFBs even less useful. IFBs might be useful if they had 4 connections. But i doubt it even then.

[old plover]

They look cool. That makes them useful

[narrow trail]

I have been struggling with using single biomass burners for multiple different ‘sections’ of my base this whole time.. I have sent off the first space elevator parts… I just learned that linking all of them together helps a lot before moving onto Coal

[oblique hollow]

so you didnt know that power is additive?

eh, it can happen

[barren elm]

They're "smart" too if you didn't know that already, they'll only burn fuel when power is needed, so you can basically throw down extra ones as a sort of battery

[jolly lake]

can you manifold pipes?
or should you load balance them instead

[wind spade]

you can't load balance pipes

since they are bidirectional

[jolly lake]

then how would you feed all of these refineries with crude oil?
i dont quite get it, i just reached this stage for the first time 😅

[wind spade]

the top one, but loop the pipe

[deft lichen]

it'd be pretty funny if they kept the current buggy behavior for 1.0

[median heath]

cough Hyper cannons cough

[mint dew]

can someone send me a storage system

i only have 14hs in my world so something that is not to advance

[calm mauve]

yeah storage system is pretty much a line of containers that you send items too

[mint dew]

is their something where i can just dump my inv into it and it will sort it

[median heath]

☝️

[mint dew]

but that is just 1 thing no?

[median heath]

Yes... you asked for a storage system, and my interpretation of that was "send a pic of 6 containers all dedicated to 1 singular item, because that's what people mean when they ask about storage systems."

[vapid gorge]

you could also just have a smart splitter over flow to a container on each of yoru production lines

[calm mauve]

Sevs pic is a smart splitter system with the overflow being merged and sent to a sink

[median heath]

And it even includes your standard "catch all non-sorted random items" container.

[calm mauve]

you know that would look good in a 4x4x4 blueprint

[gray violet]

would a loop be recommended for this?

each pipe is its own line of turbo fuel

[jovial wyvern]

Sev, in the storage example you posted above, are the smart splitters' outputs set as follows:

left - overflow
center - any unspecified
right - item to be stored

[median heath]

👍

Final splitter is just Overflow - None - Any

And is the "catch-all" container.

[thorn bane]

whats the throughput of those pipes
you only need a loop if its close to 600

[gray violet]

its less, but some gens are not getting enough fuel

around 400

triple checked math, even let the last "weird number" gen to consume a tad less

[thorn bane]

is the production working at 100%?

cause it might just need time to fill

[gray violet]

been 100% for bout a day

[thorn bane]

sounds like not enough fuel is being made, or it just needs more time to fill the pipes
if it was a pipe throughput issue then the production would fill up and shut off

[gray violet]

would this output cause any problems? i remember my friend made these blueprints and i had to fix the inputs cause of sloshing problems

but didnt touch the outputs

[thorn bane]

the output shouldnt really have issues, i just do a normal manifold, its more the input that can be an issue
but if the output was an issue, then the machines would shut down to being full

[gray violet]

this is the input

[thorn bane]

ye that looks fine

[median heath]

Why is the pipe orange when all the buildings are bright red 😭

[gray violet]

for example, this fuel gen isnt getting any fuel, and i deleted the pipes and such, the gens before it are completely full

[gray violet]

i havent gotten around to coloring it red for turbofuel lol

[thorn bane]

you could check the pipe that is connection to the manifold to the line that doesnt get fuel
see if its oscillating too much
it should be around 400 with ups and downs of some amount
if the ups get to 600 then there might be a problem, but i dont think it sloshes that much

[gray violet]

max it goes to is 470

[thorn bane]

ye then its not a throughput issue
maybe just turn off some gens, let all pipes fill to 100% and then resume
turbofuel is kinda notorious for taking for ever to fill

[gray violet]

ill try that

can i just disconnect power or do i need to go the gen and turn it off

[thorn bane]

btw interesting that it goes to 470
that means max pipe throughput is 530?
thats lower than expected, id have guessed that 550 would be fine

[jovial wyvern]

Iowa State team colors are red and orange (well, "curry").

[thorn bane]

uh actually not sure, they might still consume power if disconnected

[gray violet]

ill just go and turn em off one by one

[thorn bane]

maybe someone else knows? @median heath

[median heath]

Power Generators all have their own individual grid until you connect them to a larger one.
You cannot "disconnect their power" as they do not care.

You have to flip their standby switch.

[gray violet]

i assume its just a bug, but every time i open the pipe to see flow, it shoots 600 then goes down to expected numbers, it does not go to 600 when i stare at it for minutes

[gray violet]

this only shows for like 1 frame

[vapid gorge]

could easily be a problem because lines of machines fed off a manifold w/o loop can cause problems

[mint dew]

so i have a bottle neck in my sytem rn is thier any way to fix this

[bleak kiln]

tf are we even seeing. You can't just show a picture and have absolute 0 context.

[median heath]

Yeah, don't merge the lines.

[calm mauve]

supply would be greater then demand

[bleak kiln]

Better conveyors could help, if such is the context ig.

[mint dew]

what is the best way to conect 2 lines of stuff into 3 crafters this is what i have rn

[vapid gorge]

if you have the belt speed for it what you're doing now?

[mint dew]

i have mk2

[vapid gorge]

ok? so if you need to merge up to 120 onto a belt yo ucan split it in 3

also storing ingots and ores are fairly pointless

[mint dew]

that was from before wherre i have over flow

[vapid gorge]

I ... don't know what you mean by that? in any case you'll never realistically make a factory that will consume more than the basic ore/ingots than you mine per minute right? even if you store a bunch you'll eventually run out and starve the system

[mint dew]

that was when i first started ... i have over flow and i wanted to store it

[vapid gorge]

ok sure - but again, just letting you know there's no point to it, you might as well sink excess while your miners do their job

[mint dew]

ok so what do u rec i do

[vapid gorge]

I'm just letting you know as a general thing.

but I already answered you

about connecting things

how much did you want to feed into the 3 machines per min? 120 or less?

[mint dew]

135\

[vapid gorge]

then you'll need at least 2 belts 🙂

instead of merging 2 make them into their own processes

[mint dew]

how so

[vapid gorge]

by feeding the lines into their own sets

[mint dew]

i am going to need a diagram

[vapid gorge]

what exactly are you trying to make

numbers

[mint dew]

renforce iron plate rotor and modular frmaes

[vapid gorge]

how many of each? I asked for numbers

[mint dew]

15 per min

[vapid gorge]

basic recipes?

[mint dew]

probably

[mint dew]

tysm

[vapid gorge]

use this tool https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=QLtgAqiMRlljBiE4WvMS

[mint dew]

❤️

[thorn bane]

can learn more about manifolds here: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Manifold

[mint dew]

i love reading

[mint dew]

can i acount for oc

[vapid gorge]

you don't need to,

[mint dew]

wym

[vapid gorge]

it's telling you the number of constructors you need at 100%

how much % would 2 constructors have ?

[mint dew]

150

[vapid gorge]

2 x 100% = 150?

[mint dew]

nvm

i was thinking of something else

[vapid gorge]

200% right?

[mint dew]

yea

[vapid gorge]

so when it says you need 11.625 smetlers

that really means you need a total of 1162.5% of clocking

[mint dew]

ah

[vapid gorge]

spread out however you like

[mint dew]

that makes more sense

[vapid gorge]

you could have 1162 constructors at 1% and 1 constructor at 0.5%

[mint dew]

how much does the spliter and merger slow down my lines

[vapid gorge]

none

[mint dew]

wait is the spliter and meger i can use like math like if i need 240 per min i could use a meger and have 1 mk2 line and 2 mk1 line go in and on the out i would have a mk 3 moving it

or like just have 2 mk2 go into it

[vapid gorge]

if you have a mk3, which moves 270 pm, and put 2x 120 belts into the merger then sure

why wouldn't you be able to move up to 270?

[mint dew]

just hypathical

[vapid gorge]

no not hypothetical - thats literally what mergers are meant for

[mint dew]

ok

thought i was doing somethign their

[jolly lake]

i ran it without a loop and its running fine
What's the loop for?

[vapid gorge]

Looping hte manifold helps back flow - there are some situations wher eyou don't need them - but I haven't catalogued them as it's just simpler to make a loop. Also stare at the line of lights for 30 seconds or so to make sure you aren't getting any yellow lights. IME people are really bad at noticing pipe issues unless it's terribly broken

[jolly lake]

i had it running for a couple hours and came back to see everything full and running as it should be, so there aren't any issues with it
The next refinery i make I'll put the loop in it and see how it goes

[median heath]

If you don't have issues, you have nothing to change.
If you run into issues, you know the workaround now.

[jolly lake]

yuh, that's why im not gonna touch this running system and try it out in the next one i make

[jagged vortex]

If I have 50 fuel gens on an mk2 pipeline of fuel, should I put a buffer at the end of that fuel pipe line? I usually do and let it fill up before running the gens but I think I’ve been told a lot it’s not needed and wondering why?

[median heath]

No.

The sole place you need to use buffers of either kind is train logistics.

Everywhere else they either cause problems or do nothing.

[jagged vortex]

Thanks

[thorn bane]

you might wanna use 2 pipes instead of 1 at 600/min since they can have throughput issues at that level

[leaden pine]

What if I want to cause problems and or do nothing?

[old plover]

I'm a culprit 🙌
#screenshots message
I have a 300m3 turbofuel/min setup that uses... 32 fluid buffers 😂
If you use fluid buffers and coldstart: it causes issue
If you use fluid buffers and prefill like you would do w/o: it does nothing. Though I noticed they can help with the sloshing (the sloshing will take place in the fluid buffers instead of the pipes)

[frosty pawn]

why does this splitter have multiple inputs and a single output?

[summer flare]

Because manifolds don't make sense 🙂 Actually, it's because the diagram should have the merger output going the other way.

[frosty pawn]

if you believe manifolds don't make sense, you just don't understand them.
also a random 15 just to prove a point about injected manifolds is not realistic and therefore a useless example of a use case

[barren elm]

If you have 1 input feeding 3 machines, which is what the quote is from, a manifold doesn't make sense

Unless you just like how they look or something

[desert oxide]

The question you have to answer.. are you the kind of person that adds a splitter to the last machine of a manifold, or just belt it off the 2nd to last splitter..

[wind spade]

why not?

[barren elm]

Because you can accomplish the job with 1 splitter

[wind spade]

that doesn't make manifold pointless

[barren elm]

In that situation? Sure it does

A manifold would be extra belts and splitters for no benefit

I'm not saying manifolds are pointless

[wind spade]

benefit of being able to upgrade it later or change clock speed of buildings

[barren elm]

I mean, recipes don't change on you, if 1 machine feeds 3 now it's not going to suddenly feed 6 later

There's no productivity, overclocking can be done on the source machine too

The only thing that really changes is the miners, which is the exception here

[wind spade]

clock source machine, add 3 more

[barren elm]

Why would you do that if 1 machine feeds 3? You'd just build 3 more sets of 1 machine feeding 3

[wind spade]

because I want to?

[barren elm]

.

Which is valid

[wind spade]

I want to clock source machine. It now makes double the amount of items. I need 3 extra consumers. If I have manifold, I can extend it. If I don't have, I have to rebuild

[barren elm]

You could just overclock the consumers

[wind spade]

I don't have enough shards

[barren elm]

A temporary problem

[wind spade]

or want to save them for something else

doesn't matter if it's temporary, it's a problem now 🤷‍♂️

[barren elm]

And when that problem is solved, now you'd have some weird ratio of pointless machines

[wind spade]

I'll have a nice 1:6 ratio of machines that works normally

[barren elm]

Let's be real here if you're overclocking constructors and assemblers this is a fictional scenario

Because either you cheated them in or you're done with all your miners and are just overclocking everything

[summer flare]

You must have missed the smiley there. I understand manifolds more than you realise since I was able to identity the error in the diagram.
If you really think that the arrangement in the diagram is a useless example then take it up with the original poster who put it there.

[wind spade]

or I just want to overclock that one machine, because e.g. I have no space to build a machine next to it since it's crammed between two things or whatever

I see no reason to not build a manifold in that case

[frosty pawn]

thanks. i've stepped on enough toes already.

[barren elm]

This is creating very hyperspecific scenarios, like you definitely can find space for your machines

Like the summary of it is "I have enough shards for some but not all of the production and absolutely no more room for the source constructors but room for consumers"

Like ok that could happen I guess, it's possible

[median heath]

I'm saying this with absolutely no context:

Hyperspecific? In math-meta? We never do that here... 😉💛

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[barren elm]

Greeny was saying he'd build a manifold for a "1 machine feeds 3" situation

Under the context of upgrades or sharding the source

[median heath]

Ok but I made a funny 😭

[royal yacht]

I've done manifolds for 1 machine feeds 2 before

[barren elm]

I said that's fine if you like how they look, but ultimately pointless

The recipes aren't gonna change on you

[royal yacht]

100% pointless yes but it does look clean

[barren elm]

(excluding miners, obviously)

[median heath]

Anything splitting to 3 or less is usually just balancer. Unless I absolutely can't fit the belt around it and it needs to be a straight, parallel shot.

4+ is manifold.

[thorn cipher]

If I have one sugarcube delivering the resources from three normal coal nodes, and one pure iron node, how do I best get those out of the truck stop and into their respective lines

[thorn bane]

ye like frabble said i just messed up the direction of the arrow

[thorn bane]

the point was that its more than 1 belt though
so youd need a 2:3 balancer if youd want to balnace it
or you just use an injected manifold
btw once you unlock smart splitters, my suggestion is blueprinting an output priority balancer, but he didnt have them unlocked so i went with injected manifold

[thorn bane]

how is it not realistic if someone literraly asked for this
#math-and-meta message
this is not to prove a point, this is actual advice to someone that had this problem

[vapid gorge]

can you fit all the coal onto 2 belts?

[thorn cipher]

This is what I currently have, with the iron on the left

[vapid gorge]

Well I don't know the numbers you're working with or what mk belt you have

3 nodes of coal and 1 pure node of iron doesn't tell me how much you're moving of what

[thorn cipher]

Mk2 belts, but uh, I don't really know my numbers either 😅

[vapid gorge]

all that info is in the control panel of the miners you set

cause you can always clock a machine to do different numbers

Never measure things by node or purity.

[thorn cipher]

60 coal for each of the nodes, 120 iron

[vapid gorge]

ok so how much total of everything?

[thorn cipher]

300 total

Cause 180 coal total + the 120 iron

[vapid gorge]

ok now can your 1 truck station, with 2 belts outputs, handle that much per min?

[thorn cipher]

45 stacks per minute, which is 4,500 single items

[vapid gorge]

no

how many belt outputs does the truck station have?

[thorn cipher]

2

[vapid gorge]

and what is your fastest belt?

per min

[thorn cipher]

OH

120 on the Mk2, so 240 total

[vapid gorge]

so can your 1 station move the 300pm?

[thorn cipher]

Nope :>

[vapid gorge]

so you'll either need to set up 2 pick ups and drop offs OR wait until you unlock mk3 belts

[thorn cipher]

This is for the steel factory ;-; so I've just got to setup two stations

[gray violet]

so i have 2 train stations collecting all the coal in the desert biome, indicated in the SS, and i want to bring all the coal to the bottoem left for a fused frame factory (~25permin)

now the question is, better to have 2 trains or 1 train going to both stations

[thorn cipher]

Btw thank you Cobalt

[vapid gorge]

I'd split the coal and iron station if you're going for multiple stations option - that way you don't have to worry about a sorter buffer and sink

[gray violet]

rtd with 1 train is 5:21 + the 3 stops

[vapid gorge]

2 trains is my pref, multiple stops is annoying imo

[gray violet]

yea, would this increase throughput?

i have set up very large stack exchanges so trains dont have to stop at intersections

[vapid gorge]

depends on a lot of things but it's a short route so prob doesn't make much of a difference. I'd rather just have smaller train stations is all

[gray violet]

5m is a short time? at what time would it matter? would longer or smaller trains be better for longer routes

[vapid gorge]

5min for 2 spots? yeah fairly short.

[vapid gorge]

these questions just depend so much on how many cars you're doing, throughput ect

if you want to keep it simple? Point A to Point B figure out how many cars and platforms for each point.

if you're trying to do fancier stuff I'm probably not the best person to ask

[gray violet]

is point a to b to c fancy? as well as 3 other stations meeting at the same place lol

[vapid gorge]

nah, not fancy at all, but maybe you have cars loading at both stops or something? you can do a lot of weird things

a to b to c is fine, just not my pref because of how big the stations get

[gray violet]

oh well one of the stations is enough coal for my stuff thank god lol, maybe some other day ill have to do more complicated stuff

[vapid gorge]

well it's really up to you 🙂 I was just going on with how I like to do things 🙂 as long as you manage the throughput of the belts and platforms a - b - c is fine.

[gray violet]

it just hurts my brain, then i gotta account random variables like the trains w8ing for each other at the meetup spot

only needing 1 station makes life easier

[vapid gorge]

why would they wait for each other?

[gray violet]

idk how trains exactly, but is it wrong to assume at this meetup spot, there are 4 stacked stations, trains are gonna have to wait for eachother maybe at some intervals

[narrow trail]

Made a stackable conveyor line of 2 resources to make a manifold for a few assemblers for the first time today… have to redo it all because there is not enough space for the splitters AND the lift to get it off the top belt into the machine >:(

[vapid gorge]

I don't see why they would? do yo uhave more than 1 train stopping at any 1 station?

[vapid gorge]

share an image if you want? could maybe solve it w/o rebuild

[gray violet]

hmmm no, but surely yes? all of them are gonna hve dif rtd's so eventually they are gonna cross

[vapid gorge]

if there's only 1 train stopping at any particular station and they don't have their ass hanging out block the way for hte rest I can't imagine a scenario where you'd have a dead lock 🙂

I mean , maybe there's something weird you're failing to mention - but not from what you've said

[gray violet]

lemme get a closer shot of the track stack setup to see if you see anything weird

also, is there a way to make trains not slow down slightly on some turns in intersections?

goes from 120 to 80-90 cause they breaking for no reason

[vapid gorge]

afaik have the turns less bendy - but slow down from turns shouldn't cause much extra time on trips

but trains are probably my weakest part in the game. I keep things v. simple 🙂

[gray violet]

i have less than 40-50h with trains, this is my first save doing trains lol

havent played since u4 or smth

[vapid gorge]

they do have a learning curve! I set up a world wide system aaages ago until I realised that it wasn't at all how I wanted to set up the map

[gray violet]

its fun though, i have already made a stations linking up all the iron in the desert and refined, although im not even using 10% of it so far lol

[vapid gorge]

yeah I did this to connect up all the nodes, with a bunch of belts running under for shorter distances

all obsolete now though because I started building differently

[gray violet]

yea just by looking at that pic, my rail system is gonna be wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more complicated than that, and have many more trains

gonna be a headache but it will prepare me for 1.0

[vapid gorge]

yeah I had things like this set up xD

I build local though now, so don't need much throughput

[humble dirge]

having backed up lines is ok right? idk if its a good thing or not tbh

[thorn bane]

it means you produce enough so its good
unless your consumption doesnt work, and is not using any because of it

but ye full (and moving) belts are happy belts

[humble dirge]

very nice

[river night]

if the belts are stopped, it means you over-produce, which isnt necessarily "bad", but has room to improve efficiency 😄

[humble dirge]

only thing i need to work on is making more stators i think, as thats currently kinda hurts

[humble dirge]

with nitrogen gas i dont have to worry about elevation right?

[river night]

right

[humble dirge]

sweet, thanks

[old plover]

How are you dealing with plastic byproducts?

[wind spade]

if you want, you can have zero byproducts when making plastic

[old plover]

yes but early game you're likely using standard recipe. If his belts stop and go because of overproduction and he uses the HOR for power/other production, he will have issues

[wind spade]

you can get the four alts required pretty much instantly

and there's a sink if you want to prevent belt stopping

[old plover]

I was getting to that depending on his answer 😂

[humble dirge]

turn it into petrolium coke and throw it into the sink until i find use for the coke

[wind spade]

put into coal gens

[old plover]

If you do that you do need to use a smart splitter to sink excess plastic

[wind spade]

which you should do anyway

and if you don't do it, it doesn't matter anyawy, as it doesn't break anything if coal gens don't get coke (given your plastic production doesn't run either, so your power consumption is lower)

[royal yacht]

imo it's safe to have a smart sink on anything that could possibly back up (i.e. anything used for storage)

[wind spade]

everything you make goes to storage 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

As opposed to a dumb sink?

[humble dirge]

i could use the coke, although it might be a hastle rewire as my coal gens are sharing it with the foundries

[wind spade]

you could make new coal gens for it

[royal yacht]

well only like before the container I mean, unlikely you'll need a sink half way through the line

[royal yacht]

I have seen some dumb solutions to sinking before, both from me and from my friends

[humble dirge]

true, but that means i gotta screw around with water, and i hate water, something always goes wrong with water

[median heath]

You need better friends. 😛

[royal yacht]

it's a group act, I do something dumb with one part of the system, they do something dumb with another part

between us we either create a total mess or the most genius thing ever

[median heath]

I rescind my friendship offer.

[royal yacht]

just because my solutions are dumb does not make them not solutions lol, for exmaple my friend complained they didn't have enough caterium (pre-automation) so I slapped down another 10 portable miners in front of them :3

[royal yacht]

generally you need <10/min of items, and use online tools to work out the locations. Also determine what you need and work backwards as much as possible.
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map - finding locations (map spoiler warning)
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production - working out quantities

yeah it's tempting to just make shit tons of everything (which can be nice, especially early game) but without alt recipes especially a HMF factory can already get quite big and depending on your play style you may not want to build multiple of those just for storage (obviously a different story if you need them for making something else), so you may as well just make small amounts and then by the time you've finished doing your next thing you've probably already made a bunch of the HMFs you need

you could say that's cheating, you could say it's playing the game in a way you prefer and removing certain obstacles you don't like :3

used to be that playing on retaliation or passive was "cheating" until you stopped needing mods for it

[wind spade]

also please don't post question in multiple places

it gets confusing then