math-and-meta

[coarse hull]

no sloppy alumina, but yes, pretty much that

[deft lichen]

either way that diagram is not really clear (and has a bunch of typos)

[deft lichen]

the numbers don't match otherwise

[coarse hull]

which numbers

[deft lichen]

without sloppy alumina, you need 2 refineries to make alumina solution

[coarse hull]

yes

[deft lichen]

ohhh my bad

[coarse hull]

😄

that one is for aluminum casing specifically

[wind spade]

generally better to make setups in online tools than by hand, saves time and is easily shareable 😛

[deft lichen]

still, you get useless silica and worse bauxite usage

also OCing the blenders...why? just write 3x blender

[wind spade]

and guarantees that numbers are correct 🙂

[coarse hull]

ill try getting that sloppy recippe

[coarse hull]

the space i dedicated only allowed for 2, but yes, you are correct

[oblique hollow]

floating point error my beloved

[coarse hull]

fixed

[subtle roost]

can someone explain to me how i calculate splitting belts to get a certain output? or is there a tool for it

[wind spade]

usually people don't do that and just build manifolds

[subtle roost]

i sadly cant do that, but i figured it out

[wind spade]

why not?

[subtle roost]

due to me working with non-fissile uranium, i didnt want to have that stuff laying around in overflow or manifolds

[wind spade]

direct input then 🙂

[full abyss]

How many nuclear Power Plants should i run to have a reasonable Production for the last space elevator stage?

[vapid gorge]

do a production plan for the space elevator parts and figure out how much power they need

[full abyss]

Hmm ill check

[vapid gorge]

We can't tell what is 'reasonable' to you. is it 5pm each? 20?

big diffs 🙂

[full abyss]

Just 4/4/1/1 per minute

Hmm.. 15.009 mw only for this

[vapid gorge]

I'd probably aim to do at least 2x this much not including what the generators tehmselves would take then

[full abyss]

Well, at least 12x Nuclear power plants so, to have 30.000mw and be safe

[vapid gorge]

+the MW for hte power plants

they take up a substantial amount

[full abyss]

Oh, 4/4/1/1 is good for me because i let the computer on and i Will have tons of time to rebuild the factories to be beautiful hahaha

[full abyss]

Oh indeed

Let me calc it

[vapid gorge]

partially 2x because a lot of the more resource efficient recipe chains consume a LOT more power, you'll probably want to overclock a bunch of stuff for convenience, and you'll need production for vehicles and personal components

40GW + nuclear power needs to be safe is what I'd aim for I guess

[full abyss]

Maybe 20 nuclear power plants so

Damn 😦

Yes, calc suggest 20 power plant

[vapid gorge]

that's very managable from 1 uranium node

[tender lark]

Ok I read that, what's more efficient turbo fuel or fuel for the gas generator

[mystic moon]

Effeciency is difficult to quantify

My preference is diluted fuel

[thorn bane]

turbofuel needs sulfur and is more complicated, fuel needs more buildings and more oil, but oil comes in huge patches so thats not really a problem

also blenders make both alot easier/smaller

[main shuttle]

have they ever tried to reverse how the game views the destructible stuff so that destroying it would improve performance instead of degrading it?

[vapid gorge]

it only affects loads and saving and it saves performance on that as it is now because they assume people aren't psychopaths that carpet bomb teh world

[main shuttle]

well that's a strong assumption 🤣

[gritty moat]

agreed

[vapid gorge]

if you feel the need to level the map you should accept hte pain that comes with it

[main shuttle]

i assume that kind of action by the engine is cpu dependent

[oblique hollow]

as a game dev you are forced to make assumptions and set limits

[wind spade]

not really feasible, since it's basically "here's a map we have" (that's built in the game data) and "here's list of changes player did to the map" (built in save file)

pretty much only other option would be to store all destructibles in the save file, but then updating the map won't update player's save file

[full abyss]

Yes

[silent sphinx]

@jagged hawk it looks like a bad mod.

[pulsar bough]

Does anyone know why my power fuse keeps breaking? I've tried getting more power but it doesn't work. Also, it shows on the charts that the production is higher than the consumption rate.

[vapid gorge]

unstable is most likely - are you trying to restart it while your power station is still connected to the grid/

[pulsar bough]

wdym?

[vapid gorge]

when youre generators are down, do you try to restart them while they are still connected to your factories?

[pulsar bough]

yes

[vapid gorge]

so you're trying to restart them with the same situation that tripped them initially?

[pulsar bough]

not anymore because I've messed around with the coal and fuel generators.

[vapid gorge]

well ok but starting a system connected to a factory is a bad idea, even if you made it bigger it'll almsot certainly not start out doing full power.

so in general you almost always have to restart a power station while it's disconnected from the main grid

once you get Priority power switches you can make it so the power station never crashes and just the factories get shut down first

[pulsar bough]

Im still very confused

[vapid gorge]

ok so do you think you've made more power, enough to satisfy your factory?

[pulsar bough]

yes almost double

[vapid gorge]

ok, so if your station makes 2000mw and your factory only needs 1000mw, as you're power station starts rebooting and it only starts making like 800mw, what do you think is going to happen?

[pulsar bough]

it wont work

[vapid gorge]

and trip a fuse

hence 'don't have factories connected to a power station as you reboot it'

[pulsar bough]

but thats what confuses me, when I look at the chart it says the production is higher then the consumption but still trips

[vapid gorge]

because suddenly all the machines will spike in demand

pls ... just ... try to restart it w/o it being connected to the factory

[pulsar bough]

how do I do that? do I disconnect the electric cables then turn it back on?

[vapid gorge]

yeah have 1 power cable going out to factories and dismantle it

or have a switch if you've unlocked them

[pulsar bough]

k

[pulsar bough]

How do I make the priority switch work?

[pulsar bough]

Nevermind I looked it up

[chrome abyss]

im considering starting a new save, because the location where i am i just not good, wjhere do you guys advise for me to start?

[vapid gorge]

the game is designed for you to spread out and create new factories

create more factories elsewhere and link them up

Also locations are only good/bad depending on what you want to build with specific recipes. that's how you should plan out factories.

[chrome abyss]

hmm

[vapid gorge]

unless you've unlocked basically all the tech and all the alt recipes there are no spots which you can do everything. And not even then really depending on what radius is allowed in your definition

[chrome abyss]

hmm

[wary tulip]

I find it easiest to start in the northwest desert. Then work your way over into the northern forest. Speed runners point is a good spot for materials proximity.

[knotty ginkgo]

Does anyone have a excel with all recipes?

[chrome abyss]

materials proximity is muy problem, some stuff is a bit far

[knotty ginkgo]

I copied the recipes of the excel from this reddit post, but I just noticed that the recipe for battery is completely wrong and I would have to double check every recipe now

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/16ugm5k/alternate_recipe_ranking_wspreadsheet_update_7/

[vapid gorge]

what are you trying to do with it?

[knotty ginkgo]

I wanted to copy the recipes for my own spreadsheet to plan my factory

[vapid gorge]

wouldn't it be simpler and faster to make plans in tools and paste the link in a spread sheet to keep track of what resources are needed?

[knotty ginkgo]

Building the spreadsheet is the fun part, but it should be based on correct data

[wind spade]

any ranking is subjective

no reason to use any of the online rankings

[vapid gorge]

i think they jiust want the numbers

in a table

[wind spade]

numbers for what?

[vapid gorge]

each part per min in the recipes I guess? seems like they are trying ot make a spread sheet planner

[cinder silo]

I'm not sure ranking alts is a good idea since their usefulness changes based on resources at hand.

[vapid gorge]

I don't think ranking is part of it

[cinder silo]

Oh, I just saw that "alternate recipe ranking w/spreadsheet" thing posted above, I probably shouldn't skim text.

[knotty ginkgo]

Exactly, just the per minute or per item resource requirements

[vapid gorge]

most of the items pm on there are probably right, likely faster just to quickly scan through

[wind spade]

or check https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items

[knotty ginkgo]

I just noticed, the values of the doc are not wrong. Its just the sheet which rounds numbers like 1.5 to 2

and if you export the values, it uses the rounded numbers

[vapid gorge]

ah change of decimal places should fix it then?

[knotty ginkgo]

ye

[sullen bone]

I don't wanna do it. I don't want to place 1609 fuel gens

Max turbofuel with my nuclear and plutonium setup though

It will use all sulfur on the map. Oh and the 25 batteries PM needed for space elevator

[oblique hollow]

then just dont
dont be a lunatic

[wind spade]

no reason to do turbofuel if you do nuclear

[main shuttle]

i wonder if 1.0 will finally put a saw on the crafting table

[sullen bone]

Nah. I'm doing both.

[coarse copper]

So your power generator reach 1000000MW output?

[wind spade]

easy with nuclear

[viscid swallow]

yep easy like Greeny said

alt recipes are your friend if u want to make that much of power

[deft lichen]

I wouldn't call it exactly "easy", rather "possible" lol

[wind spade]

"easy" as in "you don't even have to max nuclear" 🙂

[nocturne seal]

is getting 1.000.000MW with turbofuel possible ?

and with diluted fuel

[vapid gorge]

use satisfactory tools and see

[viscid swallow]

use nuclear power to make 1 million

[main shuttle]

i still love the fracture mechanics on the rocks & pillars

[rough drift]

got a quick question about pipes, I have 3 lines of 600 oil a minute (getting turned into plastic and rubber respectively). each line of 600 has 20 refineries attached to the end of it, feeding in a manifold style, but not all of them are active at once, is there any reason behind that?

[median heath]

Because you didn't build the manifold correctly.

[rough drift]

any further explanation besides that?

[median heath]

I'm assuming it looks something like this in terms of it just goes and then immediately stops at the end?

[rough drift]

yes

[median heath]

Fluids are not solids.
You cannot thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

If you build the above, fluid flows to the end, hits it, and sloshes backwards.

This reduces your overall throughput in the pipe.

Left is A way to fix it, right is B way to fix it.

This is C way to fix it.

[rough drift]

ah ok

trying to get a better idea but basically the left arrow is the input, then it just moves around in a giant circle to prevent underflow to everything?

[median heath]

Only answer I can give you is "build it and find out."

[rough drift]

oh wait

figured out my issue

turns out i didnt realise how much heavy oil residue plastic makes

difference of like 300 heavy o residue that i didnt account for

[coarse copper]

I don't understand, if you prefill those pipes and machines, you don't need loop because liquid won't hit the end

[median heath]

Flow isn't continuous.

Everything in the game happens in cycles.

[tame vessel]

continue

[rose lion]

Im begining calculations on my mega iron factory

[wind spade]

you can also use some of the online tools to calculate stuff for you

(also megafactory is not recommended)

[rose lion]

I just like the idea of a giant factory for iron and thought of the challenge to calculate it all by myself.

[cinder silo]

I'm gonna have to borrow that screenshot, I've tried explaining why sudden stops are bad with mk2 pipes and the pipes themselves being good, yet people just didn't get it.

[wind spade]

ah, "megafactory" means everything in a single factory. Large factories are fine, point is to not centralise too much. It's better to build all over the map than in one place

[rose lion]

Yeah i meant Giant factory

[viscid swallow]

use alt recipes u to help u with this goal u have

[grim wadi]

I have 960/m iron ingots coming in, how would you recommend splitting things up? this is what i came up with. any improvments to this?

[wind spade]

don't start at ores or ingots, start at final products

decide how much you want, and plan backwards

[main shuttle]

so did they remove the jetpack hog when they introduced the rock chucking hogs?

[nocturne seal]

won't using a water pump fix it too ?

[median heath]

No.

[nocturne seal]

can someone explain to me why my Biomass Burner Power Plant is not working even though the capacity is bigger than max consume

apparently I tried turning it on around 10 times, didn't work, then it worked and stopped, and now it's working somewhy

weird

[wind spade]

capacity is how much power you can generate if all gens were running
max consumption is how much power you can consume if all machines were running

neither of those have nothing to do with biomass gens

biomass gens work when power productions is less than power consumption

[nocturne seal]

at the end of it

it was a drop pod connected to my base

💀

[weary wren]

whats a good space evlator phase 2 set up?

[wind spade]

that's a very generic question

you can finish it with one machine of every type

or with 100s of machines

[weary wren]

yea i just check the crafting recpie

I am only at mk3 of convyer belts, would adding another lane help?

wait ima see if i could increase the consumption first

[main shuttle]

idk if i've ever landed on a nice round number like that

[main shuttle]

would it be possible to mod the game so that different species of mobs attack each other, not just the stingers vs everyone? or is that too difficult to do with the AI

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @vapid gorge

[weary wren]

nvm i had a bit of unpgraded convyer

[stone jetty]

I hit the object limit. But over 2600 drones will do that.

[wind spade]

2600 drones probably contribute very low to the object limit

[stone jetty]

True, but when they're all full of resources, it adds up.

[wind spade]

resources in drones are most likely free, do not add to object limit

in general, resources inside containers are

[stone jetty]

I tested it with a object counter mod, when I assigned a full drone to a port to unload, the object counter spiked up.

[wind spade]

that may be some path markers for the drone

[stone jetty]

Or that, yes.

[wind spade]

items inside containers are usually just a property of existing object, I don't think they will be counted as another UObject

since UObject is usually something that's placed into scene

which items inside inventories aren't

[stone jetty]

They do not count, I believe. I think your marker theory is most likely correct.

[odd wagon]

is there a easier way to understand the caculator

i get confused and my factory ends up looking like shit

[wind spade]

which one?

[odd wagon]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/

[wind spade]

no idea about that one, I don't use it

[odd wagon]

alright dont worry

[wind spade]

you can try other ones tho, some are in #welcome
maybe those will suit you better

[nocturne seal]

what do you need help with

I have used SCIM for a while

I might be able to help

[nocturne seal]

when I used it I tried to put the outputs by the default production rate or 1.5x per machine, so it would not get so weird numbers making math and distributing resources a lot harder

for example, instead of 6 Reinforced Iron plate or maybe 7, I try to do the default ( 5 ), double it or 1.5x

because if you wish to go the hard way you would need to do stuff like getting 67.5 screws per minute and 33.85 iron plates for example

[arctic vine]

lads i have the following situation:
i got three 731.25 belts and one 206.25 belt going into a line of 20 assemblers needing 2400 total.

each assembler can process 125 per minute, meaning a 731.25 belt can supply 5.85 assemblers.

my issue is that i cannot properly place manifold injections and the system remains unsupplied

where should the three injections be placed?

[wind spade]

I'd personally just have each belt go into assemblers that need exactly that much

[arctic vine]

that'd mean rebuilding the whole system, and i think figuring out where to place 3 mergers is a lot easier

[wind spade]

no, that'd just mean clocking a few assemblers and instead of puttiong 3 mergers, you put 3 entry points for belts

[thorn bane]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rXrJ8CWyjNExcayArby3HjRpDUXV5sd8QvFrdNZxBc/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.i4mh5jaa6ir1

[arctic vine]

but i'd need to add more assemblers

[wind spade]

or overclock existing

[arctic vine]

all assemblers in the line are fully clocked

[wind spade]

then yeah, you'd add 3 more assemblers

[arctic vine]

this would've been so useful 15 hours ago

but thanks!

[wind spade]

but adding 3 more machines is hardly "rebuilding everything" 🤔

[arctic vine]

right, thanks!

[wind spade]

also for the future, I'd recommend not building the machines if you haven't yet figured out the logistics

[arctic vine]

good advice :)

[arctic vine]

yipeee, thank you so much!

[thorn bane]

nice :)

[arctic vine]

makin auto wiring

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ielDPlLyKgY1atP8f0Kf

full factory

[thorn bane]

#screenshots message 🙃
for stuff like this i prefer to actually calculate how much is used and and come to a nice ratio, but for most other things i just use overflow

[arctic vine]

💀

[arctic vine]

quick question: can a BCU have n inputs or is it limited to 4?

[thorn bane]

can have any
in my quickwire example i have 7
btw if you play factorio then its just this

[arctic vine]

i see

thank you

[wind spade]

wrong way around

[thorn bane]

oh ye youre right

[amber umbra]

Interesting document link above. I played around with those belt compressors a fair amount. They're interesting.

Kinda niche in usage while taking more effort to implement, so idk if I'll actually use them at all.

[vapid gorge]

belt compressors are for people who lack the resolve to solve how much you want on each belt in the first place

and then complain that the compressed belts don't have the exact number the process they want to use it on needs

[thorn bane]

well it just means you dont have to calculate it anymore, so its just easier.
you dont really need exact numbers as input if you just let everything fill up, as long as 1 step in the production has the desired machine count/clock speed. that way the machine will balance themselves to only take as much as they need.
before it was kinda tedious to build them since you need to configure smart splitters and do weird belting, but now with blueprints its gotten so easy that i honestly dont see any reason against it.

[vapid gorge]

You still have to calculate a production based on what you’re feeding it? And very few, if any, recipe will use full belts of multiple items

[thorn bane]

well lets say for example you have a factory like this
stell ingots -> steel pipes and steal beams->EIBs
combined into HMFs

say you want to double your HMFs by just doubling the manufacturers
this means you need more steel beams and more steel pipes
but you can just increase the manifold and the bcu will take care of all the logistics
and if you notice that your ingots are lower, then you just increase those too by increasing the manifold

[vapid gorge]

You.. .still have to calculate how much you're providing and how much you're using

[thorn bane]

no you just add more if youre low

[vapid gorge]

and then run out? is your initial idea you're making 10x as many resources as you plan on using like some sort of madman?

this looks like a somehow worse version of a bus

and if you want to build in steps where you're making huge amounts of waste you can just build the first belt to feed the initial build project
and then, if you really want, use a second belt to feed an expansion without having to rely on running allllll the same damn belts the whole way. So restrictive in layout and space consuming

I keep thinking I've seen the worst thing on the internet for the day and more keeps popping up. Truly the end times.

[rough drift]

whats the go with mk2 pipes not being able to supply 600 a minute to whatever machines its pumping into

[vapid gorge]

they can if you build the pipe system properly

[rough drift]

is there an easy diagram or video i can follow?

i know ive done something wrong with my oil system but i dont know exactly what as im still learning how fluids work in the game

[vapid gorge]

Thats ok - there's a few basic rules to go by for consistent pipes if you like

[vapid gorge]

#1190597884681396296 message

example of looped manifold

[rough drift]

yeah i do feel like ive done that already but I will try and flood the system again by turning down the clocks on each of my gens to fix it ig

[vapid gorge]

if you'd like you could share a number of overhead shots of the layout and pipes and I could see if I can trouble shoot it?

[rough drift]

sure

[vapid gorge]

pipe shape and elevation changes can really impact things

[rough drift]

gimme like a few mins to get a couple screenshots

[vapid gorge]

no stress

[rough drift]

i'll quickly whip up a calc production plan too so you can understand the math side of things

[vapid gorge]

use sftools, easiest ui and display

[rough drift]

im using triple overclocked refs for sake of space but i might need to change that if it isn't producing enough, but it should be

[vapid gorge]

Ok the only yellow light i see is on an extractor- what is the issue you’re having at the actual factory?

[rough drift]

fuel gens arent getting enough fuel for some reason, causing fluctuations with power. 2nd set of refs arent getting enough heavy oil residue from the plastic production, causing it to stop and start in the middle section of the refs there. Some heavy oil isn't being used either, which is weird considering it should be consuming enough

[vapid gorge]

Ok work backwards further - is there any stuttering of the plastic refineries?

[rough drift]

there are three refs at the very back constantly backed up with fuel

[vapid gorge]

Those are the fuel refs what about the plastic that makes the hor? Any backed up?

[rough drift]

oh no not fuel i meant hor

[vapid gorge]

Ah so several plastic refs have full HOR in their outputs?

[rough drift]

yeah

could be a cause of having all 24 refs going into one pipe section because its 600 hor being made

[vapid gorge]

And the fuel refs - I’m assuming some are starving of HOR?

[rough drift]

yeah every now and again, its inconsistent enough for that to cause issues with the gens

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah any inconsistency would. Ok trouble shooting

Set 1 of your fuel refs to like 10% and let it flood completely and set a few of the fuel gens to a low clock

That’ll let both sections flood

Once every fuel gen is flooded put it back to it’s regular clock

Wait for every fuel gen to flood then do the same

If after the whole thing is flooded an it still ends up starving you know for sure there’s a flow or math error

[rough drift]

would it make a difference to have a different section be the output for the 10 fuel refs?

cos some of the refs seem to be pumping out more fuel than others because of where the input for the fuel loop is on the gens

[thorn bane]

you could always just use 2 pipes at 300

[vapid gorge]

wdym different section?

[rough drift]

as in the output

[vapid gorge]

as in multiple chunks? shouldn't

did you do the flooding

[rough drift]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

and has it started stuttering again?

[nocturne seal]

I hate building in there

it's hard to make it look good

somehow :(

like it's not impossible it's just harder than usual

[ivory wedge]

whats the point of this

[frosty owl]

To make fluid flow unreadable

[deft lichen]

junctions slow the fluid down, this is a mitigation

[vapid gorge]

Essentially if you loop and flood it you have fluid coming from both directions , this allows to manage back flow

[nocturne seal]

can you send that ss of the one that is the same but from below to up

Idk how to explain it but you or someone else had sent 2 ss's and I lost that one but I will need it now

[vapid gorge]

I don't have one. It's literally just a loop and you can see everything about it in that shot

it's why it was done at an angle

[rotund sedge]

Full mk3 belt on iron rods is backing up

Despite the constructors being on the desired speed

All of the constructors are oced to 200%

To get a full belt of iron rods

[oblique hollow]

If everything is at 200%, then it takes 270/min iron and makes 540/min Rods

[upbeat cloak]

how big should i plan if i want to build a centralized quartz processing plan(where every node will be processed into cyrstal oscillators/silica) and then will be distrubuted to factories needing them?

Because probably proccessing every node is a bit excessive right?

[oblique hollow]

Its more excessive to process at a central location because of logistical overhead

Produce what you need at the closest possible quartz node and then deliver exactly ehats needed from there to the destination

You can process centrally, but you have no real good methods of distributing items back out from there to other sites

[upbeat cloak]

fair

[oblique hollow]

And also it may be a bit nonsensical to move quartz from, for example , the desert to the forest only to move the product back to the desert where its needed

[vapid gorge]

on top of what mcgal has said - depending on the recipes you choose in your world you may need very little in terms of silica/quartz/oscilators

[upbeat cloak]

yep fair

[vapid gorge]

chances are you'll have to move it in a much more complex manner shipping it all to a central location when you could also just use it when you need to and maybe move it 100m

[upbeat cloak]

yep

i saw someone do it for copper but fair

[vapid gorge]

look honestly - doing that for any product is often a massive pain - we're not saying you can't but you also can't plan 'how big' to do a thing if you don't know what the goal for it's use is right? forward planning often leads to pain

[upbeat cloak]

yep

it does indeed lead to pain

[rotund sedge]

Only the rods are 200%

[oblique hollow]

well, all 9 constructors?

[rotund sedge]

Yes

So they all make 30 rods a min

Should work out to 270

[oblique hollow]

right my mistake its 15/min to 15/min
so 30 to 30 now

then whatever is using the rods seems to be the problem i guess

[rotund sedge]

Hmmm

I'll check the belt between modukes

[oblique hollow]

you can try sinking the full belt for now to see if theres some issues there

[cinder silo]

You didn't upgrade belts on the fly or anything around the splitters did you?

[rotund sedge]

Nope

I'll check if I mis placed one as mk2

[cinder silo]

Alright, I only asked because I had a 1 metre piece of mk1 bring a factory to its knees before 🙂

[rotund sedge]

I may Check if it's a mk2

That's causing a two module backup

I should probably do that rbh

Sink any items incase of module backup

[rotund sedge]

@oblique hollow fixed the backup

i had to drain the constctors

[thorn bane]

i was thinking a bit about stators
if you swap to caterium wire, compared to making your wire out of caterium, then you effectively swap 30 caterium and 45 steel to 45 caterium and 30 steel (more for swapping fused wire to fused quickwire)
do you guys think 15 caterium or 15 steel is more valuable?

[gritty moat]

bottom right seems more valuable in my case

i can make thousands of caterium wire per minute, but my steel is limited rn until i bring over my 4 normal nodes of coal to my other 2 iron nodes

[oblique hollow]

its really hard to value caterium vs steel as they dont have the same usage

[thorn bane]

hm the more i think about it the more i actaully agree i think
getting a second caterium node is easy but building 10 million steel pipes is so tedious

[oblique hollow]

you wont need as much caterium as you need steel
theres not that many recipes for it

so it doesnt quite matter as much what you optimize for unless you wanna max out production of something

so yes, the choice is "whatever seems more convenient to you"

[thorn bane]

nah this is just for normal progression through the tiers
notably for automated wiring

[thorn bane]

well thats my question what seems more convenient xD

[oblique hollow]

thats for you to answer

its your convenience after all

not mine or lucky's or anyone elses

[thorn bane]

and yet, as i said above, luckies way actually seems more convenient

[oblique hollow]

well if it seems that way to you then it may be what is right for you
its your call after all

[thorn bane]

but that doesnt mean that you cant talk about it
see what everyone is doing
how they value steel vs caterium

[oblique hollow]

sure.
In the end it might turn out differently once you try building it

[thorn bane]

ye im kinda committed to my fused wire and def. stator approach now, and im not gonna rebuild it (sunk cost and all xd) but i might try the quckwire stator for my next playthrough

[median heath]

@static marsh my full starting location opinion (series of screenshots):

GF - this is the place I consider "best"

Because it's just open, flat land in a straight shot out from the nodes.

NF - Circled is where most people "start" even though it isn't in the starting area. The actual start location in the NF is pretty damn good imo.

RD - In my personal opinion, the best starting biome.

My recommendation is setting up on the west side. Because the 6 normals are equal to the 3 pures, but easier to work with imo. Also that area is the largest section of flat terrain on the entire map.

[static marsh]

oh, Grass Fields... um, I go here short walk to the coal generator area

[median heath]

To each their own, I prefer the bottom left.

[static marsh]

I want the plentiful water; I like to coal rush

[median heath]

Also, if you feel like trying NF again, I recommend going to the actual starting spot instead of over to Speedrunner's Bluff.

[static marsh]

And my thus-far ONLY starting location in the forest is...

[median heath]

Yeah, I don't recommend that as a starting area, personally.

[static marsh]

I landed very close to the top left of the spawn area, then. It's where I saw iron when I searched for it

so if I go rather far southeast, I'll find a pretty good coal pit, I see. 3x pure + 1 normal?

[median heath]

Coal Lake West, yes.

Which is much closer if you start in the actual start spot of the NF.

[static marsh]

Do you always get the actual start spot if you skip the onbaording T0? Because I sort of like doing T0

[median heath]

Wouldn't know, as I always do T0.

[static marsh]

Anyway, right now I'm going to work for a bunch of iron plates and concrete so I can get a good supply for foundations so that I can build a proper coal plant (I only have one sad coal plant with an underclocked pure miner and an underclocked extractor)

[median heath]

Unlock Concrete Foundation from the shop. Then all you need is Concrete.

[static marsh]

I've done unlocking alternate foundations before... I liked the aesthetic, but not a certain bit of overhead. Namely, a single full stack of concrete and a single full stack of iron plates would match up perfectly

[median heath]

Ok? It's all temporary and to be deleted later anyway. So I just go for cheap, simple, and effective at that stage.

[static marsh]

I'll grant, 5 stacks of concrete only need +2 stacks for a 10x10, as opposed to 5 stacks concrete + 5 stacks plate

[thorn bane]

wait why

[median heath]

Because?

[static marsh]

probably because of the issues I had. I had to snake down one of the pseudo-canyons to make my phase 1 goods, and it was a huge pain

[median heath]

Other location is just better in my opinion. So I don't recommend it.

[median heath]

Like I said, if you try the NF again in the future, go to the other spot.

[static marsh]

It does look like I'd have enough space to build an actual factory further southeast from where I am

[median heath]

Oh, if you've haven't seen it, just walk to the area in your current save. It's a really nice spot +6 pure irons.

[static marsh]

I think I'll build up my power first, so I can just lead a huge chain from an 8-coal gen (7's worth after overhead) to have something decent to build in the first place

[oblique hollow]

some mysterious source you forgot

[true junco]

Idk why, but every time ive started in GF i go to the spot i marked in red...

[inner finch]

what's that from?

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[dense canopy]

No. The place is random within the biome you pick.

[static marsh]

thanks

[jovial wyvern]

All the discussion yesterday about precision in #satisfactory got me wondering. If production machines store clock rates as percentage values with four digits to the right of the decimal point, how is that number stored in terms of the game's actual code, which I would assume is some sort of binary floating point value?

Did CSS use some form of decimal representation internally, and then use decimal math on these numbers?

I ask because some numbers that are exact in base10 are not exactly representable in base2. The decimal value for 1/10 (0.1 exactly) converts to a infinitely repeating four digit binary series (0.00110011... in binary), for example.

[oblique hollow]

as far as i know every recipe stores the time per recipe as a float

then it just does the math for the new time and uses that for the recipe timer

We dont know the exact implementation

0.1 would convert to 0.10000000149....

which is a pretty negligible error

1 extra cycle after a billion other cycles

roughly 3 years of ingame playtime needed for that

same for 0.333333... repeating

[glacial jackal]

I would imagine for things like that they need to store them as BigDecimal

however, if you do rounding-to-nearest instead of rounding-down, then the game should balance itself, given the high clock speed

BigDecimal is a concept where a number stored as a string instead of a number

it implements its own maths

I'd imagine it quadruples the memory for computation (which is not a big problem here) and slightly slows down the operations, which, again, not the major problem of a game engine

[oblique hollow]

I honestly expect that they went through the math for how much accuracy they need and concluded that floata work fine given the small errors
Thats also why clock rate is probably limited to 4 decimal places, limiting how close you can get to the "fuzzy" parts of floats

[elfin wyvern]

yeah even 3 would probably have been enough

[tulip fiber]

quick question if i make pipe manifold that backs into itself i has to use valves?

[oblique hollow]

no

Valve not needed

[wind spade]

simple answer is: you never need valves and should not use them at all (unless you know what you're doing)

[tulip fiber]

thx

[grand osprey]

Good Morning y'all, I'm having a perplexing problem
I need to produce plastic for computers, a lot of it, and I wanted to do something more with the heavy oil than just coke, so I wanted to turn it into fuel. This lead me into making a build where I package the fuel to be used.....somehow (still not sure).

The problem is that I've checked the math a bunch, but my constructors for canisters and thus some packagers are running up short, causing a blender or two and a couple plastic refineries to be idle because the pipes aren't being cleared fast enough.

The second picture highlights what points in the build come up short. I've tried hand feeding the starved producers, letting it run for a bit, and the problem still remains. I'm perplexed.

Edit: Also, the constructors and Packagers before the ones getting starved are slowly filling up, one after another towards the ones being starved. That's weird, right?

[thorn bane]

are all the bottom left plastic refineries running?

[grand osprey]

Yes, everything is running

[thorn bane]

hm i just checked the math and it seems fine
so the problem is the constructors are not getting enough plastic?
that has to be a problem of the bottom plastic refineries right?

is any of the petr. coke or the HOR of that bottom part backed up?

[grand osprey]

The constructors, yes , they're not getting enough
The Pet Coke is not backed up
I thought it was the plastic refineries for the canisters, but the math should be right...
Checked the constructors and packagers, and all of the const and packagers save the last 2 const. and last 2 pack. are completely full with their inputs

[thorn bane]

id just try and overclock the bottom plastic and HOR part and seeing if it fixes stuff

sounds like a missing belt or pipe on one of the inputs or outputs

[grand osprey]

I double checked for pipes and belts, and everything is connected
I'm not sure how much to overclock, I don't particularly want to put a smart splitter at the end of the packager/container lines to get rid of overflow. I'll try it
I'm probably going to try something like this elsewhere on the map and i'm confused why the math isn't adding up

[thorn bane]

no i mean just for testing purposes
just plop some power shards in there and see if it works
cause that would mean that the problem has to be the refineries

btw i personally would have just used the top plastic for the canisters with a smart splitter of going to canisters first and any overflow as output

[grand osprey]

The top plastic refineries are for a Computer section, so they're already used and accounted for. I just wanted to do something more with the heavy oil than just coke.

Trying the overclocking now, gonna let it run and see what happens

alright, so, I overclocked the refinery that i had under to 125%, and i'm running into the same problem. 1 const and 2 pack at the end of their respective lines are being starved

I guess I did my math wrong on how many refineries I need for the canisters?

[thorn bane]

no 15 is right its 580/2/20=14.5
thats so strange...

[grand osprey]

And all the packagers and constructors before those points are all full of their respective inputs again as well ( i took them all out as part of the test)

[thorn bane]

what percentage are the last machines running at?
to figure out how much plastic youre missing

(the constructors)

[grand osprey]

100%

or, wiat

One constructor at the end if at 70%, but it's not being starved it's keeping steady. The one that is starved is at 100%
But the packagers are at 100%

[thorn bane]

i mean if you only input 290 plastic then the manifold will never truly fill up
the last machine will consume the last available resources

are the last 4 not full like in your screenshot or only the 2 connected to the last splitter

[grand osprey]

As of right now, all of the constructors have enough to be constantly producing, and the last two are very slowly filling up
The last 2 packagers are being starved, with the 2 before them in the line being slowly filled up

[thorn bane]

ye need to wait until the second to last is full until the manifold is at 100%
i guess that takes some time

[wind spade]

third to last

last two fill at same rate

[thorn bane]

even in a double sided one?

[wind spade]

in a double-sided one it's the same (last two machines fill at same rate)

[grand osprey]

but this is with an overclocked refinery, so that plastic line will eventually full and backup if I keep it that way
Do I need to make the manifolds different to better balance it out?

[wind spade]

but last two are last row

[thorn bane]

nah you just need to wait
but that confirms that the problem has to be in the bottom plastic part right?
maybe just check them 1 by 1 that they are all at 100%

[grand osprey]

They're all at 100%, save the one i have at 150% for testing

[thorn bane]

did you underclock 1 of them before? if so by how much?

[grand osprey]

One was at 50% to produce 290 plastic to make the 580 canisters for the fuel

[thorn bane]

hm that seems right
youre sure you didnt accidentally underclock 2 or something

[grand osprey]

oh.....I underclocked 2 of the cosntructors by accident

[thorn bane]

ah xD

[grand osprey]

Only 1 needed to be, I have it underclocked to produce 40 canisters a minute

[thorn bane]

this is why i dont underclcok

[grand osprey]

Alright, well!!!!!!!!
I'm gonna pull some of the canisters and plastic out, let it run, and see what happens
Do you just overclock a producer to get amounts below 100 then?

[thorn bane]

i just let them at 100%
and if it gets less then it will just simply run 50% of the time

[grand osprey]

like, 165% on one instead of one at 65% ?

[thorn bane]

no just 2 at 100%

but ye you get yellow lights and "50%" efficiency numbers so i get why people do it

[grand osprey]

Oh I see what you're doing

Going to report back a little later, a power issue has somehow arisen + i should get started on my day , but fingers crossed it works later

[thorn bane]

aight hope it works

[median heath]

Yes.

[grand osprey]

Working on a turbofuel plant, quick question:
How much turbofuel does one generator use? I can't seem to find it in game anywhere

[thorn bane]

4.5
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Fuel_Generator
it shows up once the fluid is inside

[grand osprey]

thank you!

[median heath]

0

Because you don't use Turbofuel for power 😭

[rose garden]

does anybody see anything wrong or something i could do better in this plastic rubber and steel factory

[vapid gorge]

it's real hard to see exactly what you're doing with what recipes like that. Only thing I'd change is use a planner

[rose garden]

i tried that but the one i used didn't seem to be able to use the heavy oil residue for the petroleum coke witch messed a lot of it up

[gray violet]

look up "oil tripling"

[sour cargo]

Didn’t realise how helpful chat GPT could be with math, I however am still bad at math

Working on solar power grid with mods but want a consistent output in the nighttime

[rose garden]

what are the blenders for?

[gray violet]

lamens terms is that u can turn 300 oil to 900 plastic or rubber per min using the heavy oil residue, diluted fuel, and recycled plastic/rubber recipes

[rose garden]

in your opinion is the extra steel worth it or do i need more plastic?

[gray violet]

u can make even more steel with an oil tripling setup

itll just make ur setup more complicated

[rose garden]

ok

[nocturne seal]

For a 2km space between both train stations, needing 4320 transfer rate p/m, having 1 railway to get in and another to get out, how many trains and how many freight cars would you recommend ?

I was thinking maybe 8 freight cars per train and 3 trains

( the items stack up to 100 )

[tough dove]

that probably works

[nocturne seal]

now that I'm making the math, assuming the train takes 120 seconds to go from a train station to another, and more 40 seconds to load / unload, it will take 320 seconds in total to make the whole thingy ( 5 minutes +- )

each freight car can carry 32 stacks in 5 minutes, or 6.4 stacks per minute

I need it to carry 43,2 stacks per minute

so 7 freight cars should do it

[vapid gorge]

there's an equation for train throughput on the wiki

in general it's safe to do 1 belt per car though

[nocturne seal]

I'd say 3 trains with 4 freight cars ?

mathematically 2 with 4 freight cars should do it but better to be safe than sorry

[vapid gorge]

No idea - stacks per min is a really bad choice to convey throughput because you have different stack sizes and belts don't care about it

and you'll always be limited by belt speed

[distant crater]

For me i will run the train system first to see the item/minute transfer indicated for each freight station.. then tweak the system..

[vapid gorge]

eh, if you care about looks at all making stations bigger can be a huge issue. Or even just if you're a bit squeezed for space.

[nocturne seal]

4320 items per minute, they stack up to 100, so 43,2 stacks

pretty much I need to bring 2160 iron and coal to a huge steel facility

[vapid gorge]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Trains#Calculating_throughput

you'll want to use more than 1 station too

[nocturne seal]

why is that ?

I thought 1 station would be enough

[vapid gorge]

each platform can only move X parts per min through

doesn't matter if the trains are carrying it all

And you know you can't move 2 full belts on a platform right?

[nocturne seal]

each platform can output 1560 items p/m, I will have 4 of those, so 6240 > 4320, being more than enough output

[nocturne seal]

why is that ?

[vapid gorge]

Ok so you haven't looked up much about trains it seems - that's ok

do you know platforms lock out belt input outputs while loading/unloading

[nocturne seal]

oooohhh

[vapid gorge]

yup xD

the more trains you have stopping at a station the lower the max throughput on each platform

and if you have 2 incoming trains both delivering high throughput cars to the same platform it's gonna get clogged fast

[nocturne seal]

what time does a platform needs until it stars working again

[vapid gorge]

it's about 27 second down time each docking

[nocturne seal]

damn

[distant crater]

Correct.. but still its better you run it first to see the correct unloading rate for each freight station cuz of halt transfer rate during unloading

[vapid gorge]

in general I would recommend 1 train per station

[nocturne seal]

me about to make a 12 freight car train

[vapid gorge]

you can look up the equations on the page I linked if you like? the less mathy solution is 1 belt per platform

unless you have a very long return trip that's a safe volume

[nocturne seal]

I think it will probably be fine if I place 2 trains even if it's high output, because they need to travel 4k to return to a station

is 4km considered a very long return trip ?

[vapid gorge]

ok think about it this way - if you have two incoming cars dropping off items to the same platform and both those cars are near the belt limit - how is one platform going to do the work of two platforms that were near limit?

so lets say the max throughput for a delivery platform is 1100pm - and you have two trains coming in and both have 900pm exptect on cars that are delivering to hte same spot - how will that 1100 receiving platform ever move 1800?

if you don't want to do the simple 1 train per station with 1 belt per platform I highly recommend you read that train throughput link I shared

I think the very max a platform can move is about 1250~ pm depending on stack and train travel time - so you can never have multiple trains delivering more than that to the same platform - and quite a bit less with more lock out times

[wind spade]

Tbh if travel time is long enough, adding a train actually increases throughput

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/time-travel-time-traveling-time-traveler-hulk-mark-ruffalo-gif-22954295

[median heath]

Train testing for Ondar:

Maximum incline (which is greater than 2m ramp), with full cars and only 1 loco.

From a dead stop, the maximum ratio is 1:3.

If you have a running start of at least 90 km/h:

• With a maximum height difference of 100m, the limit is 1:7
• With a maximum height difference of 200m, the limit is 1:4
• Beyond that you must use 1:3

(1:6 can handle up to about 135m and 1:5 can handle up to about 160m)

Side note: Trucks can handle 3x this incline without issue 😄

8m tilted wall OP, plz nerf

[small pollen]

noted...

[oblique hollow]

I assume this was tested with ramps only.

Im aware of your distaste for spirals but i expect spirals to perform worse

[median heath]

It was tested on pillars at the angle of max incline. None of that wavy alternating ramp business.

[oblique hollow]

yeah no i wouldnt test or usethat anyway

[median heath]

That = wavy ramp?

or

That = pillar?

[oblique hollow]

huh wait

what exactly do 100m vs 200m mean here

[median heath]

Height difference.

[oblique hollow]

same horizontal length, different height?

[median heath]

Same angle, different height.
Inherently different horizontal.

[oblique hollow]

A consistent horizontal length and different heights would yields different slopes too

[median heath]

Except there is a maximum slope.

Which is the first parameter. Using maximum incline.

Unless you're saying the "alternating 2m and 4m" max incline definition we have been using is not actually a thing?

[oblique hollow]

no wait i think i misunderstood the point

So this is just about "how far up a maximum slope track can a train get with x starting velocity"

[median heath]

Well, the first point is "what ratio can always handle maximum slope"

In the course of finding that answer to be 1:3, I saw different lengths of train getting to different heights before stalling.

So I then went back and tested the second point of "how far up max slope"

Because if your height difference is only 100m, using 1:3 is a stupid waste of space when you can use 1:7.

It also means you can just use 1:7 all the time if you wish, so long as you make a small flatness every 100m in height so the train can regain speed.

[oblique hollow]

Right so the table on the wiki is mostly right then.
We could replace the 4m double ramp (impossible slope, or whatever ramp it was that was the steepest ) with whatever maximum slope it is

[median heath]

I'm assuming that is what Ondar was after when he asked me.

[oblique hollow]

Well for practical purposes you would usually use the 2m double, anything thats steeper is somewhere between that and the 4m double limit

[median heath]

Given how easy it is to do max incline with a beam, idk. Seems pretty practical.

[wind spade]

rails on a beam look unrealistic 😦

[median heath]

Pillar.

[oblique hollow]

I guess it depends on preference

[wind spade]

rails on pillar look even more unrealistic

[median heath]

You look unrealistic.

[oblique hollow]

For spirals i expect the data to look a lot worse due to curve resistance

[wind spade]

I'm aware

[median heath]

I would never advise spirals, so I will never test them.

[oblique hollow]

It still wouldnt hurt to test

As people do use them

[median heath]

People ain't smartishly.

[wind spade]

nah just ban everyone who uses spirals

[oblique hollow]

even if the end result of this is "turns out spirals are bad" and we can double down

[wind spade]

they are already bad 🙂

[oblique hollow]

Like "hey look heres some more data, spirals suck"

[median heath]

I could be persuaded to test 2m continuous ramp if that is needed. But I am not touching spirals.

[oblique hollow]

Uh sure. That would then be a good test to verify the other part of the weights table

Since nobody but me ever really touched that part

[median heath]

I'll start with 1:8 full and see if that makes it.

[oblique hollow]

From a dead halt it should fail according to the data

Or worse: the brakes could be too weak and it rolls back

[median heath]

Rolls back is still a fail 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

1:5 (from absolute dead stop)

Although 1:8 can still make a 100m height difference with a running start.

[oblique hollow]

Right so thats consistent

[median heath]

You can probably manipulate running start numbers with a small decline before the incline tbh.

Instead of doing 100m -> flat -> 100m, you could do 100m -> drop 10m -> 100m.

Overall length would be shorter than using just flats.

I sent Ondar the save file that has max incline set up already. So poke him if you want to test it out.

I'm going to nap.

[hazy dune]

anyone have that image detailing having a floor for all stages of a production line vs a floor for each

[wind spade]

huh?

[hazy dune]

i can't exactly describe it

it's been years since I've seen it

it has a diagram of an entire production line on one floor, with each floor being a different production line, then on the other side a diagram of each floor being a different stage in one production line

[wind spade]

sounds very specific. Also which production line? 🤔

[hazy dune]

someone posted it once and said "I think im going to follow a different strategy this time"

[hazy dune]

it was a general graphic for no specific line

[fresh helm]

i can use convoyer merger with convoyer mk1 and mk2 and mk3. One for every entry ?

[median heath]

Yes. If you really want to.

[fresh helm]

ok thx

[delicate wave]

can someone help me out here? trying to build the VIP thing from #design-and-architecture message but it's prioritizing the refineries instead of the blenders

[median heath]

Which line is recycled?

[delicate wave]

the pink line traced is recycled

[median heath]

And the issue is the Blenders are backing up?

[delicate wave]

ya

[median heath]

tbf this seems a very jank setup.

[delicate wave]

it is a bit yeah

rebuild angle?

[vapid gorge]

VIPs have no room for jank from what I've seen

[median heath]

Like why are you re-elevating the pipe on the back and why is there a second pump on the green pipe over to the left?

[delicate wave]

the idea was to do the thing you do with fuel plants, where you put the manifold above the input

[median heath]

I don't do that though?

[delicate wave]

not you specifically

[median heath]

[delicate wave]

the thing sometimes done*

[median heath]

I don't recommend doing it either

[delicate wave]

oh shit i misread the diagram. That's two inputs on the right side of the screenshot. i see what's wrong

[median heath]

Input direction shouldn't matter.

Given this works just fine.

[vapid gorge]

could there be jank from this?

[median heath]

Possible.
The cleaner you run the VIP pipes, usually the better.

[vapid gorge]

having tiny sections of pipes can make things a bit weird. And also maybe the pump was place ON the pipe w/o thep ipe being rebuilt

[delicate wave]

ghost piep

i had 2 pipes in the exact same location

[vapid gorge]

well, like putting splitters onto belts , putting pumps on pipes can cause issues too

[delicate wave]

tbh didnt even know you could put pumps on the ground until just now 💀

[vapid gorge]

oh well the trick to that isn't even putting them on the ground, it's rebuilding both pipes that connect to he pump you placed

[median heath]

This is why I build all the non-pipe pipe stuff first and then connect the pipes.

Same way you build all your splitters/mergers first and then connect belts.

[delicate wave]

well, it works now :D

my nuclear power is now reliable for a while at least

gotta make the stuff to reprocess the waste tho

[median heath]

What recipe is this btw?

[delicate wave]

this is uranium fuel rods, the standard recipe

[median heath]

No, that is made in a Manufacturer.

[delicate wave]

oh, duh, encased uranium cell

i dum

[median heath]

Ty. Something I want to try. Will report back in a bit.

[median heath]

@oblique hollow do we have confirmation that Blenders do not take the same fluid from multiple inputs?

We do now 😄
Idk how it is coded, but apparently once the one input receives a fluid, the other input is locked out of taking that same fluid as an input.

Also don't know why it was coded that way tbh 🤷‍♂️

[true junco]

Well. Thats good to know. Also puzzling that they chose to do that.

[vapid gorge]

maybe so you can't insta solve recycling?

might also be a pipe thing where only 1 fluid per pipe?

[median heath]

So inputs = pipes?

[median heath]

Wouldn't necessarily be instant.
I would assume it would have similar random priority behaviour to what ISCs have.

[vapid gorge]

except ISCs have output priorities not input right?

[delicate wave]

maybe it uses a separate internal "tank" for each resource based on the # of inputs, and those tanks don't know about each other?

[median heath]

Possible, except they would know about each other. Only way to be mutually exclusive.

[sand epoch]

Why would you need to use the 2nd input to solve recycling? Couldn't you just merge it into the first?

[median heath]

It isn't about need.
Was about seeing if possible.

[uneven burrow]

hey guys how do i split 100 ore into 40ore and 60ore without smart spliters

[true junco]

1 Regular splitter.

[uneven burrow]

well then it gets split to 50 and 50 :/

[oblique hollow]

yes

but it will not stay like that forever

[uneven burrow]

:/

[oblique hollow]

if you feed 50/min to a machine that uses 40/min, what happens?

[uneven burrow]

well the 10 dosent get used

and it overflows

[oblique hollow]

yeees, and?

[uneven burrow]

the miner keeps turning off and on

[terse scaffold]

how many fuel rods would i need for around 36 reactors

[uneven burrow]

and the power grind keeps jumping

up and down

[oblique hollow]

36 * 0.2/min

[terse scaffold]

so 1

[oblique hollow]

you now have 10/min overflow
on ONE belt
but you have another that needs 60 and currently only gets 50

[oblique hollow]

no

36 x 0.2 is 7.2/min

[uneven burrow]

im already using the 60

[oblique hollow]

no you arent
you are using 50/min, remember?

[terse scaffold]

oh thats not bad compared to what i was going to make lmao

[uneven burrow]

uhhh sorry my brain not braining rn

[oblique hollow]

you split 100/min in half
50/min on one belt (it needs 60)
50/min on the other (it needs 40)

[uneven burrow]

ohhhhhhhhh

i get it now thanks

[oblique hollow]

we just talked about the belt that gets 50 but needs 40

[median heath]

Stop gif spamming.

[pulsar salmon]

I LITARALY PUT ----> ONE <---- DOWN

ONE

[median heath]

2 in #design-and-architecture
1 attempted in #satisfactory
1 here

4 > 1

[pulsar salmon]

4

not spam

spam would be 40 at once

-in every one

[jovial wyvern]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how these images have anything at all to do with Satisfactory, Math and Meta, or Design and Architecture?

[pulsar salmon]

desighn >:)

bye

[median heath]

Troll. Got it 👍

[pulsar salmon]

no

not troll bruh

anyway byeeeeee

[thorn bane]

<@&387163995947270144>

[vapid gorge]

@fallow tulip pick a recipe for an item you think you might be buildign a factory for soon

[fallow tulip]

pressed esc and apparently cancelled the choice got the drive back though so re-scanning it now heh.
idk didn't really like any of the choices anyway.

[wind spade]

See #math-and-meta message

Also better to pick a recipe than to reroll

[vapid gorge]

eh, you might as well pick a recipe and not waste time as they'll just keep popping up in the pool

and I'm pretty sure you had one of the most efficient plastic/rubber recipes in that lot

[fallow tulip]

there's only so far a wiki post can help a person who plays the game once every 3 months lol... better hear reviews from people who have tasted the choices.

[wind spade]

The point is that every person has different view

So easiest is to check what the recipes do yourselves

[fallow tulip]

very introverty pointy viewy

[wind spade]

Because when checking, you'll focus on the things important to you

[fallow tulip]

wouldn't ask if I wast stumped by the choices i was presented with

[vapid gorge]

afaik the analysis of the recipes are just objective detail like - 'this uses less of this and more of that' or 'it might be more useful in X situation'

not 'this recipe is great!' or 'this recipe is bad!' because those are useless comments

[wind spade]

The linked message and the wiki article both list some points about how to pick a recipe and what to look for

[fallow tulip]

cant even ask for opinions aside opinions that every recipe has equal rights

[wind spade]

You can, but you'd get more value if you asked concrete questions about things you don't understand, not just "what to pick"

[uneven burrow]

is there any way to split a 30item per min conveyor into 12 and 18?

with just spliters*

[vapid gorge]

1 splitter. Let it balance out on it's own

[uneven burrow]

ooh

right right thanks

[thorn bane]

recipes do not have equal rights
im happy to give you an opinion

[jovial wyvern]

I think there is a general consensus that the Crystal Beacon alternate recipe is not recommended for people who are asking "which recipe should I choose".

[deft lichen]

point is, although I can tell you what I would pick, I base my choices entirely on how I like to play the game, and so it's not applicable as general advice
this applies to everyone

so the question becomes "do you want an easy answer that might be totally wrong, or a complicated but correct answer"

[thorn bane]

bro he didnt get an answer at all

[deft lichen]

he did, from Greeny

[fallow tulip]

I got the easy answer "figure it out".

anyway moving on from conversation that keeps looping and annoying everyone involved.

I have some long-term-temporary factories which just clog (run horribly inefficiently) while I worry about building so I have a feeling some of the recipes would work well as a sink lol. As long as it increases the sinkable item score we're good

[wind spade]

why so?

[fallow tulip]

not many mass produce beacons. So if the person didint intuitively pick crystal beacon means person doesn't really need mass produced beacons... that is humble guess.

[wind spade]

all base recipes double the value of ingredients
alt recipes have different effect on sink points based on their resource efficiency

[wind spade]

beacons are used in one nuclear chain

[fallow tulip]

oh. makes sence. didnt know that till now heh. havent reached nuclear yet so havent considered that.

[thorn bane]

so the recipe is useful to 0.1% of players

[fallow tulip]

so most who ask probably havent reached it yet and dont pick it lol

[wind spade]

I doubt the amount of people doing nuclear is that low

[fallow tulip]

maybe not that low but it is low lol.

[karmic jungle]

Can confirm, I have been playing since release and have never reached nuclear

[wind spade]

you didn't reach nuclear in 5 years? 😛

[karmic jungle]

Nope! Granted I only have 130 Hrs

[thorn bane]

out of the people that ask for recipe advice?
yes

[wind spade]

you played 130 hours and consider that "playing since release"? 😄

[karmic jungle]

Well I bought the game at release and have been playing since then so yes

[thorn bane]

anyway you can just write "only used in nuclear"
instead of writing "Choose any recipe you want" since they clearly dont know that its useless to them unless they do nuclear

[wind spade]

I haven't seen the message with the alt selection, I think it has since been deleted or lost in chat. I was answering the generic question "help what do I pick"

[fallow tulip]

also in sugarcube tractors if I remember well?

[wind spade]

idk I would use different words for what is essentially 2 hours in a month. "Playing since release" sounds like you play much more

[karmic jungle]

It's accurate though. I don't play consistently but I've been playing the game for a while

[jovial wyvern]

Beacons are used for two things. One, they can be used to mark locations, which now has been superseded by just using the map itself. And two, they are used in an alternate recipe for the nuclear chain.

In the first instance, beacons provide no additional utility when compared to simply using the map, and in fact have caused confusion to the point that people come here asking questions about their use. The answers to those questions generally take the form of "just use the map". When presented with three recipe options, one of which makes something that people recommend to "just use the map" instead, that recipe is not recommended over the other two options.

In the second instance, the use case is for an item used in the nuclear chain. People that far along in the game aren't asking "which alternate recipe should I choose." Since the question isn't being asked, no recommendations can be made. For people still in Tier 3, when the alternate recipe first becomes available, a recipe dealing with nuclear products is unhelpful compared to other more Tier appropriate options and would not be recommended.

And finally, it is well known that beacons are being removed from the game by the end of 2024. When presented with three recipes, one of which makes an item that is being removed from the game, that recipe generally is not recommended above the other two options.

That's why I think there is a general consensus that Crystal Beacon is not recommended.

[wind spade]

removed in 1.0 is not a valid point to not pick it now, because it's general recommendation to start a new save anyway, half of your factories may not work and with todays video probably even tons of miners would need readjusting

"people that far along in the game" very often come here with "oh I had no idea alts are even a thing". People just explore too little

And picking unhelpful recipe means it no longer blocks the space for more useful recipes for later rolls

[oblique hollow]

if you do still care about production and "maximizing nuclear" or whatever, the beacons are still on the table
Whether you wanna not do that stuff though because 1.0 changes it to rotors instead is a different choice

[uneven burrow]

w a d e r
b o t t o m t e x t

[jovial wyvern]

I disagree. If a player chooses not to start a new save and instead deal with having to fix non working factories, etc., then having chosen a recipe for an item that no longer exists was a waste of time. Choosing either of the other two recipe options would waste less time.

In the 1.5 months I have been in this server I have read two discussions centered around confusion with using beacons. I have yet to see a discussion where someone building nuclear products has said "oh I had no idea alts are even a thing". People who explore too little don't find uranium nodes, certainly not before finding a crash site.

If you are getting Crystal Beacon as one of the three options so often that it feels like it's blocking a third more useful option, then your recipe pool at that point is pretty darn shallow. Choosing Crystal Beacon over two other more useful recipes simply to free up a slot would not be a recommendation.

If you were to list every combination of Crystal Beacon and two other alt recipes available at Tier 3 and present that list to experienced players (ones who understand the use cases of the recipes), how many of those combinations do you think would have Crystal Beacon as the majority choice?

[true junco]

Note that they have already told us the new recipe for that nuclear item for 1.0

[oblique hollow]

people who do get that far usually get all alts anyway.
you cannot run out of drives before you run out of recipes

[wind spade]

I'm aware

[true junco]

Sorry. Wasnt necessarily directed at you, just response to you. Probably should have "at" the person you were talking to.

[vapid gorge]

don't be an ass and cherry pick - and it's also a fine recipe as the new recipe has extremely similar needs and would only need minor changes. So clap it

you could even argue that a beacon recipe being used for a uranium rod system will be simpler after retrofiting to rotors

[jovial wyvern]

Who the hell licked the red off your candy tonight? You don't like me saying "I think X", which is an opinion, then block me. I don't need to listen to your holier than thou attitude.

[sand epoch]

Always more to grow the blocklist 🙂

[vapid gorge]

Because the beacon recipe is fine and the closest thing you could come up with an argument against it is beacons don’t exist in 1.0

And if that’s the case it’s completely out of context and you’re either making a bad faith argument or it’s just a terrible position,

[vapid gorge]

and you didn't say 'I didn't like it' you tried to make it objective

[jovial wyvern]

Reading is fundamental. Which part of "I think" in my original statement confuses you? Perhaps Sev can help you understand what an opinion is.

Greeny asked me for my thought process behind my opinion - an opinion which was originally prefaced by "I think" - which I then provided. Do you expect every paragraph after that to begin with "My opinion is:" to ensure that people know it's subjective?

Just curious, when was the last time you saw Crystal Beacon be recommended? My personal observation is that it isn't. Heck, the most common answer I have read here for the question "which recipe should I choose, A, B, or C" is something along the line of "each recipe has its place, and you'll eventually get them all, so pick one that suits your needs currently". That's not a recommendation for any particular recipe at all. If that's the general consensus here (and it seems to be based on my observation), then it's accurate for me to say that the general consensus does not recommend Crystal Beacon, simply because it doesn't specifically recommend any recipe at all.

[median heath]

I am not part of this.

[jovial wyvern]

Probably for the best <-- for clarity this is my opinion.

[jovial wyvern]

This is math-and-meta, and the discussion above isn't, so I think I'm going to leave it where it is at this point.

[wind spade]

"This recipe is not recommended" reads differently from "no recipe gets recommended because of subjectivity"

[frosty owl]

Let's not put ass on cherries without any need 😭

[vapid gorge]

What about cherries on asses?

[frosty owl]

I won't kinkshame 🤷‍♂️

[old plover]

Question for the mathematicians out there:
I have a pair of truck stations (load and unload) with a single truck carrying several types of items with different stack sizes. Is there a formula to calculate the maximum roundtrip time? (In my case I just tried with a single truck and it's enough, but when I wanted to do the math I blanked)

[versed violet]

I think you need to start with calculating average stack size for your item mixup, then multiply that by slot count of the station and divide by belt capacity. This will tell you how long it takes to fully fill the truck station = clog. As long as truck can make a full trip within that time, the station will keep items flowing. If the truck inventory size is smaller than truck station capacity, use the truck inventory size (can't remember the values, haven't looked in there for a while).

[old plover]

You think it'd be bulk average stack size, not accounting for the throughput of each? In my case I have four 100stack sized items flowing for a total of 1080/min, and one 500stack sized item flowing at 90/min. I would imagine the coefficient of the 500stack size would be minimal and averaging all to 180 would be a stretch?

[median heath]

Stopwatch.

[versed violet]

In general, the item composition should be equal to your belt input - if you are inputting 60 screws and 60 iron ore, it will be one stack of size 500 and five stacks of size 100, with average stack size of 166.(6). Just add how many things you are inputting over say 5 minutes, calculate how many stacks that would be, and average stack size based on your belt speed.

[versed violet]

I have a hard math question for geometry majors:
The viewer will be moving on straight axis.
I need to build a set of columns that is 16x16m at the base and 8x8 in the middle (pipe foundations)
I want the viewer to not be able to see past the clumns, making an illusion of infinite column room.
How do I arrange the columns, so the viewer has no straight line of sight past the columns?
The column bases cannot overlap.
Number of column "layers" should be minimized.
Example arrangements on pic - none of these work as there are straight paths between columns.

[knotty ginkgo]

Just a quick doodle, but 4-5 rows with a different offset should be enough

@versed violet

[jovial wyvern]

@versed violet Is there a restriction on the column placement? Are we limited to a 1 meter grid for positioning the columns, for example?

Assuming we cannot clip column bases into each other, right?

[vestal terrace]

This is my solution. Stack this shape for as long as you want it to not be see through. Mirror it for the other side

The offset column should be offset by 1/2 foundation or something of the like

I would use the nudge inside a blueprint to copy paste this arrangement

[main shuttle]

have they announced any kind of "we're finally doing away with the islands to the SW" alongside 1.0?

kinda tempted to set up a decent sized base in that water but i don't wanna dedicate too much to it if it's about to get nuked from orbit

[median heath]

Anything you do now is going to get nuked from orbit, as 1.0 necessitates a restart.

[main shuttle]

ah k

didn't know the nukage was going to be that substantial

[true junco]

The known recipe changes and the node changes alone seam like enough reason to start fresh in 1.0

That said. They have stated they wont delete the SW islands. They also said they would extend the boarder to be able to build there. But they arent putting any content there either. So its going to be an even better nuclear waste dump.

Unless thats all a ruse like when they said they wouldn't have pipes. Lol. (Its still on the map they showed when discussing nodes)

[median heath]

They have stated they wont delete the SW islands.

Did I miss when this was 100% confirmed?

[true junco]

Maybe. Pretty sure it was in one of the videos. I believe they said they would extend the kill border, keep the islands, add no content to them (so no collectables or nodes) i assume they would also touch up any terrain out there too just to not have any glaring defects.

[static marsh]

Then I look forward to getting to make them into a hub of sorts

[versed violet]

I was thinking along this lines, but four layers do not fully obscure whats behind. you can still see through.

Howerver, this five layer arrangement does. Huh, I'm pretty sure I tried it before 😅

[versed violet]

All that for underground cho-choo line. Need to decide how close to bring the rail to columns themselves

[simple aurora]

Just watched the 1.0 rebalncing video and IMO there is one major thing that was overlooked - the diluted fuel recepie badly needs rebalancing (heavy oil residue + water => fuel) In update 8 this recepie is EXTREMELY OP!

[median heath]

No?

Diluted is fine.

HOR is what needs to be addressed.

[analog meteor]

no?

[thorn bane]

its seems inline with the other pure recipes

[simple aurora]

Diluted fuel is OP.
Here's some Quick calculations to prove it.
Producing 1 m3 of diluted fuel requires 0.5 h oil residue and 1 unit of water. Let's assume we get the oil residue from plastic production. In that case oil 1 m3 of diluted fuel requires 1.5 m3 of crude. Comparing that to standard fuel production (and refining the polymer resin into plastic for equivalence sake) we can see that producing 1m3 of both not only requires the same amount of crude, but diluted fuel also yields 30% (!) more plastic as a side product . It gets even worse when we factor in production rates. One refinery at 100% will yield 40 m3 / min of fuel l, while consuming 60 m3 of crude, enough to power 3 fuel generators (3.33~ exactly). One blender however, will produce a WHOPPING 250% of this amount, 100 m3 per minute, enough to power 8.33~ fuel generators, while requiring only 75m3 / min of crude, only 15 more than the refinery (!!!!) And yes, it does require more water, but water is basically free. The first time I got this going I felt sorry I ever built a fuel refinery. This needs to be nerfed

[analog meteor]

i made a system and its just a pain to set up if you dont know how to do it

ig they buffing fuel gens so we could nerf that but idk

[wind spade]

and in the chain of diluted fuel is... guess what - heavy oil residue alt

[analog meteor]

no dont remove that

who cares if its op. jus dont use it if you think its cheating

or use a mod or smth idk.

[simple aurora]

Of course, if it stays I'm going to have to resort to that

[analog meteor]

what are you guys writing

[median heath]

Diluted Fuel is not OP.

Here's some quick calculations to prove it.

Diluted: HOR + Water = 2x as much.
Pure Copper: Copper + Water = 2.5x as much.
Pure Iron: Iron + Water = 1.86x as much.
Steamed Copper Sheet: Copper + Water = 2x as much.
Wet Concrete: Limestone + Water = 2x as much.

The problem isn't Diluted.
The problem is HOR.

[thorn bane]

pure copper makes 75 instead of 30 copper ingots/min
thats 250%
recipes that use water to supplement production are pretty strong to balance the need to get water
and still alot of people (me included) feel that the extra 2.5x is just not worht the hassle of getting water, since there are so many resources in this world

[analog meteor]

yes hor alt is very usefull

i dont see it as op. i think its just doing things more efficiently at the cost of complexity. im trying to find a real life analogue

[simple aurora]

You have a very good point

[old plover]

nvm what I wrote

[thorn bane]

i dont think HOR is that much better than def. rubber if you actually use the rubber
and for power we have turbofuel

[median heath]

HOR needs to be 30 = 30 instead of 30 = 40 and everything else is fine.

[median heath]

Imagine using Turbofuel for power...

🙂

[analog meteor]

it uses too much sulfur for me

i think thats why many ppl dont use it

[thorn bane]

100 rubber with hor diluted fuel and recycled plubber is 33.3 oil
without HOR and with def. rubber its 50 oil
i dont think thats op

[analog meteor]

"plubber"

what..
dont edit it

[thorn bane]

since 20 rubber = 20 fuel = 5 HOR so its effectively 25
rubber is 20 HOR + (20 rubber = 20 fuel = 5HOR) = 25
so 30 would make it only 20% better which isnt enough imo to counteract the extra water and extra machines needed
right now its 40/25 which is 60%. Thats not op?

[median heath]

Why are you so fixated on solely Rubber and nothing other than Rubber?

[thorn bane]

beacuse HOR has 2 use cases, plubber and power
and for power you have turbofuel

[median heath]

Agree to disagree and move on, plz.

[analog meteor]

you need a ton of wotr extractors. i know from experience

[analog meteor]

wait waht.

turbo fuel ok just before you get your +1 giga watt

[median heath]

You should be breaking 1 GW in Coal before you ever reach oil.

[analog meteor]

yeah i did

ig like 10 gw

[median heath]

So how in the fuck do you have Turbofuel "before you get your +1 GW"?

[analog meteor]

i had abt 2.5 gw of coal

[analog meteor]

when you move to oil

[median heath]

When you move to oil, you already have more than 1 GW

[analog meteor]

but after that. just a simple diluted fuel thingy ok

[median heath]

So it is now impossible to achieve anything before 1 GW

[analog meteor]

i made a miscalculation ok

ok change that to.
turbo fuel ok when you just got oil.

[true junco]

thats my cue - "you use pure alts for the resource efficiency, I use pure alts because i want the game to be more complex instead of less, we are not the same" lmfao

[median heath]

Use pure alts with packaged water to make a sushi belt

[true junco]

ROFL. i might try that at least once. lol

i do love pipe work tho... i'll try the packaged sushi water bottle pure ingot refinery build but only if it makes the piping more complex. lol. BP the packagers ABOVE the refineries maybe? lmfao

[vestal terrace]

Sorry, my design was relying on the pillars being closer together

[vestal terrace]

Yaayyyyyy I did have the right pattern idea after all

[versed violet]

That you did.
Also, fun thing - I cannot find the room where I intended to build this 😅 . Will have to walk the whole railway and see where it fits.

[vestal terrace]

Danggg. Hope you find it! Actually, I just had a fun idea of making giant logistic tunnels inside of my mega factories and bases. I can see the liminal potential in the pillar idea you have, so imma go do that

[versed violet]

Feel free to use the design and drop a pic. I have a railway line going halways the map under the map, so plenty of space to build "infinite" rooms.
I found the room on an old vid, and realized I converted it into "waterway" later, complete with waterfall and all.
Will need to find another spot on the boring tunnels to add it.

[pearl bay]

What is that

[sand epoch]

Tunnel rat does that to perfection

[thick phoenix]

How mutch smelter can i put together for a tier 2 miner to run it fully automaticly?

[median heath]

That is too vague of a question.
Partly because you're thinking about the question the wrong way.

[thick phoenix]

What exactly do you mean?
I have a tier 2 miner and my question is how many smelter should i use to fully automate it?

[median heath]

mk2* miner -> Vague.

• Node purity?
• Clock speed?

How many Smelter? -> Vague.

• What ore type?
• Clock speed?

Proper way to approach the question:
"I have X amount of ore/min coming out of the miner I placed. A Smelter can consume Y amount of the given ore/min. X / Y = Number I Am Looking For."

[wind spade]

You should also think about how much you want to make and not restrict yourself to "1 miner"

[analog meteor]

still not enough info. a mk2 miner can make many diferent itmes at diferent speeds. to put it simply

[thick phoenix]

I just wanted to know like 1x MK2 Miner (Pure Iron) how many smelter do i need to fully automate iron bars

[wind spade]

again, I recommend starting from final product - what do you want to make? reinforced plates? rotors? modular frames?
decide how much you want, then work backwards to how much ore you need

[thick phoenix]

I just want to know the iron bars… 😂

[wind spade]

the game gives you all the numbers

it's simple math

[thick phoenix]

all good ill search by my selv

[wind spade]

open miner UI - see how much it makes
open smelter UI - see how much ore it needs
do a simple division

you gotta learn these things if you want to play this game 🙂

[analog meteor]

jus divide input by 30 i think

[analog meteor]

ig he new player

[wind spade]

that depends on recipe and clock speed

[wind spade]

that's why I'm teaching them how to get the info

so that they won't have this issue next time they need something

[analog meteor]

@thick phoenix you know pressing (n) gives you a built in calculator for sf

[thick phoenix]

Its okay

[vapid gorge]

open the miner - look at what it's being mined. You can set the miner to like 29.4569 ore per min if you want - pls just look all the info is right there

[fierce ruin]

hey is my consumption supposed to jump like that, granted nothing is stalling rn?

found a problem

[analog meteor]

probably water extractors or smth over producing and turning on and off

wait

what. how many mw diference between low and high point. i need to do science

[fierce ruin]

I play with mods anyway

[still onyx]

it will look funnier after a time playing

[fierce ruin]

Doubt it. The factory in question is autonomous, meaning it's producing fuel and power for itself

[still onyx]

no i mean that the comsumption will go more up and down with more progress and more factorys

[fierce ruin]

Oh yeah, that I know

[ornate owl]

My consumption is perfectly flat. An ouput is full or input not getting fed.

[versed violet]

Check my math question:
Are Plutonium Fuel Rods better used as truck fuel than sunk for points?

1 stack of rods = 75 TJ = 7 659 200 sink points
1 stack of packaged fuel = 75 GJ = 27 000 sink points.
1000 stacks of packaged fuel = 75 TJ = 27 000 000 sink points.

By sinking fuel instead of rods, you gain ~3.5 times the points.

[median heath]

Better is subjective.

[versed violet]

I define utility function as max(sink points)

[oblique hollow]

processing wise, they are worth more

i dont get your scales here

[old plover]

Sink 1 stack of rod
Buy stacks of packaged fuel with earned tickets

[oblique hollow]

153k points vs 270

[versed violet]

Plutonium: Stack energy 75,000,000 MJ
Fuel: Stack energy 75,000 MJ
That means plutonium has thousand more energy per stack.
Rods are 153,184 point per piece, or ~7M per 50 stack.
You need 1000 stacks of 100 fuel to get same energy, 270 points times 100 times 1000 = 27M.

[oblique hollow]

why are you comparing the energy and sink points

[versed violet]

To decide which option gives more sink points obviously.
Should I sink 50 rods, or should I use them for fuel and sink equivalent amount of fuel with the same energy.

[oblique hollow]

sink both?

[versed violet]

Trucks need fuelz!

[thorn bane]

batteries are pretty good too
75TJ = 5 812 500 sink points
but ye youre right this seems better than sinking rods
its just a pain since they are radioactive and the insane compression for filling storage

[versed violet]

Nuclear trucks of doom go brrr!
You only need to fuel them once per 270h

[oblique hollow]

5.5 hours of runtime for a truck
vs
10 seconds

[thorn bane]

it takes quite a time to get 50 rods though

[versed violet]

nah, making 3.5 per min.

[thorn bane]

but ye realisticly ADS or TPR give way more points consistently to where the downsides of radioactive trucks just isnt worth
like you could sink your rods and use coal, which is pretty much free, sink points wise, so its kind of a weird way to think about it xD

[ornate owl]

Yeah or just sink straight crude. Even better sink points ratio than fuel.

[fierce ruin]

oh well

[oblique hollow]

Yeah thats

That sure is a something

[fierce ruin]

xd

[analog meteor]

wait what. i dont remeber it producing 600 at default??. is this an unpdate or a mod or smth?

[fierce ruin]

thats a mod

mk++

Add lots of tuned up buildings

[analog meteor]

oh ok

[fierce ruin]

turbo fuel factory looking good

800 oil residue per minute

1600 regular fuel per minute, granted nothing is stalling

[lime junco]

What's a good ratio of plastic to rubber? I have 3400 polymer resin and in my plans so far I'm splitting it 50/50, but I realistically don't know which I'll need more of

[true junco]

It depends a lot on what recipes youll use. And what design choices you make.

Like if you use a lot of coated foundations and mk2 pipes, youll use a lot of plastic in building.

There are a lot of recipes that are very productive that add plastic or rubber to make a basic item. If you use those a lot you will need a decent amount of either or both rubber and plastic.

Ultimately. For production You are better off figuring out how much you are actually going to need when you need it and build what you need at that time.

For building materials i make a modest amount of both and send it to storage. Ive never consumed either so fast that storage wasnt full when i went back to restock my inventory.

[vapid gorge]

the other thing from my direct experience doing this? make the rubber and plastic as you need it rather than centralise and ship out. Life is much easier

[lime junco]

so.like move pr?

[vapid gorge]

move pr?

[lime junco]

Like I assume don't move oil

But would you then move the resin?

[vapid gorge]

Oh I mean you can - but I wouldn't build the oil products until you have a thing you need it for

[lime junco]

And do residual rubber/plastic

[vapid gorge]

whether you process the oil where you extract it or where it'll be needed is up to you

[lime junco]

Oh that makes more sense

[true junco]

The most plastic or rubber per crude oil comes from using the following.

The max HOR per crude recipe.
Diluted fuel (packaged or unpackaged).
Residual Rubber.
Then a recycled plastic/rubber loop.

[wind spade]

ideally start from final products and work back to raw resources

no reason to produce plastic and rubber in some random ratio, you have like 0% chance to be correct

[true junco]

I get the feeling this abundance of polymer resin is because its a byproduct of their Fuel production for power.

[terse scaffold]

how many bauxite nodes are in the game

[wind spade]

at least two

[versed violet]

like twelve I think. You don't need to use them all. You can of course if you want.

[terse scaffold]

ok

[terse scaffold]

wrong its 17 6 pure 6 normal and 5 poor

[median heath]

poor?

Also he did clarify he was guessing with "I think" so the "wrong" declaration is a bit much.

[bleak wagon]

is 8,600 screws per minute too much?

[median heath]

Yes.

[bleak wagon]

how many should i make per minute

[median heath]

0

It's the "per minute" part that is the issue. 🙂

[wind spade]

screws are not needed at all. Unless you plan to build awesome shops all over the map

[true junco]

You should make exactly as many screws as any given machine demands. And you should make them immediately prior to the machine demanding them.

(This is an opinion/recommendation)

[vapid gorge]

how ever many you need for hte next step of processing

dont centralize screws why do yo uwant the pain?

[bleak wagon]

ok, I'll keep that in mind

I can just leave it at 960 rods per minute and make them into screws as needed

[wind spade]

why are you making 960 rods? 🙂

[bleak wagon]

Because I can

[vapid gorge]

that's going to be reall exiciting for you when you get the alt recipes that can cut out Iron Rods and Screws entirely from the game

[wind spade]

or steel rod

[burnt wraith]

don't let the haters stop you from building the 960 rod factory of your dreams

[bleak wagon]

Im using steel rod

I had an extra steel line in my steel factory so i decided it would be fun to turn it into a shit ton of steel rods

[median heath]

Modular Frames love Steel Rod.

[bleak wagon]

mhmm

I cant wait to unlock trains so i can take part of the steel rods back to my main factory for modular frames

[median heath]

You have trucks right now.

Use those.

[bleak wagon]

dedicated server says otherwise

[median heath]

Multiplayer....

🚶

[bleak wagon]

and im almost to trains anyway so i dont want to setup a truck path

[wind spade]

that's just driving on the ground

[median heath]

If we weren't specifically talking about multiplayer, I would point out that trains are not an upgrade.
They are different. They are not better.

[bleak wagon]

I also want to use a train out towards my steel factory because i want to take back steel pipes, steel beams, and encased industrial beams, as well as some steel rods

[median heath]

Again, in a non-MP environment, truck is fully capable of handling that.

[bleak wagon]

yeah

[median heath]

I will say, the 1.0 MP overhaul should make it so I don't have to clarify that 😭

[wind spade]

@paper thistle see #math-and-meta message

[fierce ruin]

so with plumbing you always want to have more on the output, right? or 1 to 1 production is fine?

[median heath]

You never need to overproduce in any scenario.

[fierce ruin]

k thx

[median heath]

Math shit:

Powder (alt)

• 1 Sulfur = 1 Coal

Battery (base)

• 1 Sulfur + 1.25 Baux + 0.027 Water + 0.0335 Copper = 0.689 Oil + 0.8975 Iron

Instant Scrap vs. Sloppy + Electrode

• 1 Sulfur + 0.3 Water + 2 Coal = 0.3 Oil

Steel

• 1 Sulfur = 2.333 Coal + 1.333 Iron (vs. Base)
• 1 Sulfur + 1 Coal = 0.5 Iron + 0.625 Oil (vs. Coke)
• 1 Sulfur = 1.222 Coal + 0.222 Iron (vs. Solid, base Iron)
• 1 Sulfur + 0.803 Iron = 1.222 Coal + 0.683 Water (vs. Solid, Pure Iron)

[median heath]

Quartz-specific followup was asked for:

Silicon Circuit Board

• 1 Silica + 0.0909 CSheet = 1.8181 Plastic (vs. base)
• 1 Silica + 1 CSheet = 0.649 Plastic + 1.948 QW (vs. Caterium)
• 1 Silica + 1 CSheet = 2.7272 Rubber + 4.0909 Coke (vs. Electrode)

Crystal Computer

• 1 Osc = 7.333 CB + 9 Cable + 18 Plastic + 52 Screw (vs. base)
• 1 Osc = 4.333 CB + 28 QW + 12 Rubber (vs. Caterium)

Rigour Motor

• 1 Osc = 9 Rotor + 9 Stator (vs. base)
• 1 Osc + 3 Stator = 3 Rotor + 3 ECR (vs. Electric)

RCU (base)

• 1 Osc + 32 Casing + 1 Comp = 8 Heat Sink + 4 HSC + 24 Crystal (vs. Connection)
• 1 Osc + 3 Comp = 24 Casing + 20 CB + 60 Rubber (vs. Control)

[median heath]

Uh... @wind spade

All I did was turn off oil and Pure Iron... and Tools added this whole 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 arc to HMF production (not on maximize, it has a defined target amount)

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=OJkYxRi0sp1rGcE4v8Xt

[mystic moon]

Probably rounding error?

Weird behavior nonetheless

[median heath]

Why is a rounding error generating random af recipes and parts that have nothing to do with what is being made? 😭

[thorn bane]

weird
it seems its pure iron ingot that fucks it up

[jovial wyvern]

Well, if you're making zero of everything, then zero of anything can be included in the recipe.

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=gGSGZeAEBPcspZsNlDvY
ok this is just cursed
where did the plates come from?

[jovial wyvern]

Took me a hot minute to process your math above, Sev, but I see the trades there now. Neat!

[median heath]

Read the following in the your best prescription drug commercial voice:

The above data is only available while resource supplies last. Not valid after 1.0 recipe rebalanced. See devs for details.

If you or a loved one have been affected by Thinking Weighted Points Matter, talk to your FICSIT-approved mental health professional and see if MetricsThatActuallyMatter is right for you.

[jovial wyvern]

I can't read fast enough to simulate the auctioneer voice speed of the commercial equivalent of fine print.

[vapid gorge]

yeah I've reported this to him bfore, haven't seen it that extensive though

[wind spade]

rounding error, can safely ignored. Not a priority due to being basically harmless and new tools being worked on

[median heath]

Fixed in 1.0?

[wind spade]

well basically, although at this point Tools are like 3.8

[median heath]

👍

[true junco]

Stuff like this has happened to me a few times. Mostly trying to do things like forcing certain recipies.

One other thing i have noticed recently is that the calc will change recipes when one product is set to "max" vs setting a specific production equal to the same value that max generated. Ive done it a few times where a resource goes from 100% consumption down to as low as 75%

[median heath]

"max" vs setting a specific production

This has always been a thing.

It has a different way of solving both contexts.

[wind spade]

maximise = find any way to make max possible
items/min = find most resource efficient way to make exactly that

[true junco]

Clearly. Just odd that in this one im looking at now i can maximize steel to produce 98899 ingots then set it to 98899 ingots and it changes from 100% to only consuming 84.622% of iron. But no change to coal and crude oil consumption.