math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

personally, I smash things together going up the tiers w/o worrying if it's 100% efficient. Perfect factories are for later

but if you're realising that every time you build a factory there's 10 things you could have done different or better? you're playing right

just don't let it stress you out

[raw wadi]

alright, good talk, this helped me out alot. appreciate it

[fringe pawn]

How bad can throughput losses be on belt to belt Mk5 connections? I quickly upgraded an aluminum setup to 600ppm bauxite from a single Mk3 miner, and it ran fine for dozens of hours. Now after making a new and totally separate line of batteries and packaged nitrogen that utilizes 150pp bauxite, the original aluminum facility occasionally halts due to water buildup. I have no idea why, but bauxite running dry causing machine start/stops is one of my first guesses.

[vapid gorge]

wdym 'throughput loss'?

as in you're trying to move 600ppm on a mk5 belt and your machines are starving of bauxite?

[fringe pawn]

In theory the belt is now moving 780ppm. But in practice Mk5 belts can't do full throughput if there are belt to belt connections, IIRC

[vapid gorge]

old data - that issue is essentially solved

even on a massively long mk5 belt, with lots of belt to belt connections and low fps I doubt you'd ever get anywhere close to 600 throuhgput with that bug in any case

either math or build error

or both

[mystic moon]

In the last test I saw, the maximum loss we were able to achieve was ~1% if memory serves

[vapid gorge]

in non mp without terrible fps I saw results with like 99.9998% throughput

[fringe pawn]

I'm on my way back to the miner in case it turns out I was being stingy with power and only clocked it to produce 600ppm or something

[vapid gorge]

and with margins of error who knows

[vapid gorge]

well if you only need it to move 600ppm why not clock it to 600?

[fringe pawn]

I need it to move 750ppm

The 600ppm line was my first aluminum setup for sheets and cases, I added a new line that needs 150ppm for batteries and packaged nitrogen

[vapid gorge]

ah must hvae mis read sorry

[fringe pawn]

No worries

The fluids on those two things don't connect

[vapid gorge]

well if it was a fluid issue stuttering it if anything should make it more full of bauxite ready to be processed

[fringe pawn]

Huh. I set the miner to 720ppm. Maybe I was out of shards?

🤦‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

it happens 😄

[stone jetty]

Does anyone know a mod that can set drones to only take off when full? one two way drone can take around 300 IPM, So for a 780 nodes, I need to use 3 drone ports. But lose out because of the 3rd drone taking off less then half full.

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

whats wrong with it taking off with it being less than full?

at best you'd only save a couple batteries

[sand epoch]

A 780 should only need 3 ports if you are crossing the whole map... 2 is more than enough for most :/

Esp when you have double drones on each port

[atomic sparrow]

curious how ppl set up massive water arrays, I'm having trouble with getting consistent flow using a water tower and key pipe system to feed roughly 6 pipes a 600 flow rate. The issue comes when one or two of the pipes I'm trying to feed just simply wont get any flow rate from the key pipe even though all the other ones run fine. if anyone could explain better i would appreciate it ❤️

[stone jetty]

its been a while, but last time i tested, 2 ports couldn't carry fast enough and back up. But that was a while ago.

[vapid gorge]

don't use water towers for the most of it. keep it simple

keep things simple - don't merge pipes and link systems like that

[north monolith]

If there's no flow ever, rebuild your connections where the flow stops. Try removing floor holes, valves. Reconnect observing the flow.

[atomic sparrow]

you don’t use water towers in general? I always thought pumps consumed to much power on a large scale.

[atomic sparrow]

been staring at pipes and redoing connections for a few hours now, it’s hell 😭

[vapid gorge]

nah, pumps are super cheap if you're getting to the point of tons of water needed for large production>

just don't build silly sky factory hundreds of m in the air

[vapid gorge]

pipe rules to go by #1190597884681396296 message

and honestly if whatever you've build is 'good enough' just keep going, don't burn out redoing a whole thing, jsut learn for next time

[atomic sparrow]

sounds good i’ve been playing off an on since update 3 so i’ve got a decent grasp of most of the game just trying to learn the intricacies atp

appreciate the help 🙏

[vapid gorge]

no stress - the rules in the link are flexible mind you - you can bend or break them in certain ways if you know what you're doing - but as listed they work for any situation.

[frosty owl]

~1% of the loss in U7 (for belts of the same segment count ofc)

@fringe pawn feel free to @ me for more details on single input sushi systems
I don't mean to brag, but they do be my area of expertise 😁 (I also just really like to discuss the subject )

[fringe pawn]

I'm currently DJing, and I don't chance running my factory since I didn't bring a second laptop 😛

[frosty owl]

That's not a Satisfactory DJ

[fierce ruin]

idk what a water tower is but personally I just keep it as simple and organized as possible so that when there is issues I can identify them easier

[wind spade]

@woven fossil see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[atomic sparrow]

yeah i was up literally all night working it out. i think i was just overcomplicating things by connecting multiple pipes together creating back flow issues

i slapped 80 pumps down and it’s working perfectly now

[woven fossil]

alright

[viral ravine]

just drive by the station, a node that looks like the pause icon should appear, if it does then your truck will load

[deft lichen]

0, that should make it wait automatically

[wind spade]

@obsidian creek see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[unborn urchin]

will 200 water flow into the pipe at the front? and 100 to the left

[fringe pawn]

@frosty owl If I build a single input factory with intentional excess that feeds to storage ISCs and then a sink once those are full, does that work? For instance, an HMF factory that also produces excess encased beams and so forth.

[oblique hollow]

its easier if you just use a valve.
Or if you dont have one - to not try to adjust flow like this

[unborn urchin]

ah true

[oblique hollow]

if you use a valve you must use 2 however

one set to about 200, one set to about 100

[unborn urchin]

do they need power?

[oblique hollow]

no

its better to set them to a bit more than the needed limit so they can compensate a bit for their inaccuracy

[unborn urchin]

underestood, thanks

[fringe pawn]

Quickwire and copper sheet constructors feeding AI limiter assemblers.

[mystic moon]

I really cannot wait for them to fix those arms clipping

[fringe pawn]

Wait. Hold up. They said they're going to?

Refineries too?

[mystic moon]

iirc both were mentioned in regards to 1.0 improvements on stream at one point, but I don't know if they ever confirmed that they were definitely coming.

[fringe pawn]

That would make me very happy. Because otherwise the temptation to pack them at their hard clearance boxes is simply too much.

Anyway, I'm fuzzy on how smart splitters work. If I put caterium and copper ingots on that same line, am I good to set each smart splitter to the appropriate ingot to feed the machine, then overflow out the center output?

[mystic moon]

Should be

[fringe pawn]

Because overflow is also "any" I assume?

[mystic moon]

Yup

[weak plinth]

this should work as long as the head lift of the 2 outputs is the same. You can put a pump at both outputs to ensure this. Note that if one output is backed up, the fluid will redirect into the other unlike when using valves.

[fringe pawn]

Perfect. There will be some extra production at the end of that line for discretionary quickwire and sheets anyway, but the numbers work nicely if you set he assemblers to 2 AI limiters, needing 10 sheets and 40 quickwire per minute. Effectively 8 cat ingots and 20 copper ingots each.

Though now I'm going to try a version with fused quickwire.

Bah

Do I tolerate the potential imprecision, or go down to 2.7 AI limiters per minute and ditch the repeating decimals for all input and output numbers?

(fused quickwire version of the AI limiter blueprint)

[vapid gorge]

well unless the ai limiters are then going to another process it's not going to matter since if they only eventually go to another process it'll probably not be the nubmer you need anyway

[fringe pawn]

It's an early game ticket farm strategy

But eventually they're great for electro rods and oscillators.

[vapid gorge]

so once every 10,000 hrs it might stutter since you rounded the 4th decimal up? oh no

[fringe pawn]

The other upside is that throttling those clocks gives some power efficiency benefits. Though did underclocking power efficiency get nerfed at some point with blueprints?

[vapid gorge]

no? but if you're worried about using power you're playing wrong. there is more power available on the map than you can ever use

and it really doesn't save you much. OVerclocking a whole system to 250% only uses 33% more power.

[fringe pawn]

Huh. I could swear overclocking used to have a bigger penalty than that?

BUt if 250% is only a 33% per item penalty, that's solid, especially in lower tier machines where that's just a blip

[vapid gorge]

if you need to produce X parts per min, and instead of having all the machines at 100% you clock them at 250% the overall power cost is only8 33% more

cause you need fewer machines

similarly you need more machines underclocking so it doesn't save you that much

[fringe pawn]

I get enough idle time that build costs tend to be a nonconcern

Changed production building and extractor exponent from 1.6 to 1.321928

From Update 7 patch notes, is that what I'm thinking of with power use changes for clocks? It's at the bottom of the clock speed page

Oh, huh, Google brought up the Fandom wiki page first.

And now Fandom links are crushed 😛

[frosty owl]

Any belt leading to a machine input can allow for overflow only if it is single-item. In other words: sushi inputs (going into a machine with no splitting) can't allow for overflow

[frosty owl]

Yeah, they reduced the power penalty for overclocking a bit iirc

Also linear scaling for generators' clocking/power-production

[fringe pawn]

Generator scaling just inclines me to stick with coal for longer. I got this most recent gold cup with 100 coal plants only. In retrospect I should have just used shards to go from 48 to 96 or 124 (effectively).

[true junco]

The individual machine will use more power than that. But per item its o ly 33% more

[nova girder]

if i have three things that output 120 per minute and my pipes can only transport 300 per minute and i need to split them into 8 things of 45 per minute how would i do that?

[dark wraith]

hey guys im still kinda new and I want to create a "not speggiti" factory but i'd like to make each building as efficient as possible, is there any good tutorials/websites that will help me get my biggest bang for my buck?

[nova girder]

sastifactory calculator

[wind spade]

!wikisearch coal_generator

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=coal_generator

[wind spade]

Efficiency is just "machine running at all time. That can be achieved by basic math 🙂 or there are indeed online tools listed in #welcome that can do the math for you

[vapid gorge]

Multiple pipes - or just feed it directly into the next machine

[wind spade]

@gloomy dawn see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe picking

[normal horizon]

is there an estimated date for 1.0?

[mystic moon]

Sometime this year

[normal horizon]

thanks 👍

[wanton dawn]

Later

[frosty owl]

Not now

[opal locust]

now that I have mk4 belts I took my petroleum coke and boosted my power grid for now instead of just sinking it

that should last me until I get fuel generators up and running

[north monolith]

Does anyone know if using faster belts has bigger impact on performance than using slower ones? Of course I mean the impact with huge amounts of them, all transporting items, going through splitters and mergers.

[vapid gorge]

probably not more so than just the fact you're using tons of belts in one spot

not having a belt freeway is prob the best bet

[north monolith]

not in one spot

No, I am just slapping mk 5 in all of my factories, no matter what the actual need is, and I started wondering if I wouldn't save some fps in the long run if I used lowest needed mk of belts in a given spot

[vapid gorge]

probably not to any noticeable effect

[wind spade]

Speed is just a number to multiply by, so most likely not

[wind spade]

@quiet panther see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[patent prawn]

I haven't noticed any lag differences with mk3. They just don't render individual items anymore. And my game freezes up at every autosave. lol

[ashen stirrup]

I do like how my manifolds fill when the belts to individual machines off the manifold are mk 1, though

[wind spade]

tbh if you're new, I would recommend evading sushi belts

but basically it depends on what kind of sushi you want

[deft lichen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiQuFIx9Rlg

[vapid gorge]

sushi load balancing is a bit of different beast

what issue are you having with it specifically?

[deft lichen]

Mb, I had that link on hand

[median heath]

Was about to say, person is confused-> so you link them the most complicated form of sushi 😂

[vapid gorge]

don't make it a loop for one

[median heath]

big loop

Problem located.

[vapid gorge]

are you just putting random stuff on this line?

[wind spade]

sushi in this game works best in small isolated sections

e.g. you have set of manufacturers needing 4 different ingredients, you put those in the exact ratio on one belt and feed it to manufacturers

[vapid gorge]

decide on the series of machines you are feeding with sushi
put on that parts per min on the line
set each splitter to feed the item into a slot and set main path to 'overflow'
have a sink at the very end at teh start in case you need to send some extra out to stop clogging until it self balances

absolutely don't make a loop

this isn't factorio

should look something like this , but with a sink to start it up

[median heath]

My entire world disagrees with this statement.

[wind spade]

compared to Factorio it's true

same as Cobalt I assumed person came from Factorio due to making gigantic loop for sushi

[median heath]

You know my automated response is "Fuck Factorio" so... 🤷‍♂️

You can make gigantic sushi just fine.
Just don't loop it.

[wind spade]

in Factorio you usually just build a giant loop of belt and use circuit network (basically programming/redstone) to put items on belt if there's not enough

[median heath]

And I will continue to say that people should not bring anything from that game over to this one.

Because this is yet another example of it causing confusion when they don't treat Satis like its own game.

[wind spade]

you know very well that I'm with you on that

I'm just explaining why I thought the person came from Factorio and why I said they should think smaller

[median heath]

Size is fine.
Loop is not.

[wind spade]

well size is limited by belt speed

[vapid gorge]

@median heath yeah the looped sushi description made me think of people's factorio busses

[median heath]

Injection manifold 🙃

[wind spade]

those should burn in hell, same as hypertube canons

[median heath]

Hypercannons are a bug.

Injection is a perfectly valid method of play.

[sand epoch]

Feature

[opal locust]

it took most of the evening, but my Heavy Modular Frame setup is done

you can also see my Quickwire/AI Limiter setup in the background

[frosty owl]

Just have a smart splitter set to "overflow". Regardless of wether you make a loop or not, that's all you need to control all excess/unwanted items.
Note: if you don't loop, the overflow splitter must be at the end of the line being split. In a loop, it can be placed wherever items have made a complete loop already (eg: not between merging of items X and consumers of items X, AFTER the consumers)

[frosty owl]

Loops can work surprisingly well, actually.
Though they do usually end up bringing the worse throughput-wise situations...

[median heath]

Loops are the sole thing that can break any of my systems.

[frosty owl]

Skill-issue-git-gud

Just a few days ago I encountered a post on Reddit detailing an extensive idea exactly on this: user wanted to make a central production area based on one big (~16 belts?) bus of sushi belts; user ALSO wanted all items to be distributed along all belts equally (so each belt has the same items/min) and that ALL items made a full loop before being consumed/overflowed.
So, eg: Smelters make ingots; output is collected and split in 16 to merge on bus belts; after the bus loops around the whole factory, ingots are collected (smart splitters) from the bus and fed to constructors right next to the Smelter.
So each bus belt would actually be carrying (at at least one point on them) THE ENTIRE PRODUCTION CHAIN of items involved in the factory, though "just" 1/16 of it...

[pulsar stone]

I haven't played in a while and it seems overclocking changed at some point so a bunch of my old power stuff no longer ads up.
.
Is there any up to date guides on coal and fuel power generation that doesn't use alt recipes?
(Got a friend to buy the game the other day so I'm helping them out)

[frosty owl]

The wiki is up to date. The changes in power made its clocking simpler as it's now linear: 200% clock = 200% fuel intake and power output (before one had to clock to ~250% for the same output effect)

[pulsar stone]

I assume both .gg and .fandom are both updated.

[deft lichen]

Fandom is not being updated

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @deft lichen

[pulsar stone]

Thank you for that, my friend has been using it a fair bit. I will let the know.

[deft lichen]

You can use a browser extension to redirect to wiki.gg automatically, just search up "redirect to wiki.gg"

this will work on other games which have migrated wiki platforms to wiki.gg, too

[torn plaza]

also consider breezewiki for those who haven't left fandom yet

fandom doing SEO horseshit doesn't help at all

[oblique hollow]

doesnt matter where you go really

as fandom likely overshadows it

[wind spade]

just start without fandom and you're fine 🙂

[junior whale]

@brisk shoreHi

[wind spade]

yeah bot won't answer to you

[viscid swallow]

u need a pump

[hot bison]

how many

just 1?

[viscid swallow]

how many m tall is it in all

[hot bison]

i think 20m

4 X 5

4m 5 tall

[viscid swallow]

bc that things that gets u water can bring it up 10m it self

[viscid swallow]

yeah just one

[hot bison]

ok thx

[opal locust]

I think next on my to do list is a computer factory, might need some help figuring that out

[opal locust]

I wanted to do the crystal computer/silicon circuit board setup to eliminate oil from the production

[vapid gorge]

I have no idea what’s going on here, why is it looped?

it's an issue with trying to do sushi from a single delivered vehicle too. it'll probably balance out eventually but you made this into a buss I think? feeding machines with material and putting the finished material back on?

yeah I'm gonna stop looking at this

[median heath]

Why....

[opal locust]

if I wanted to do Crystal Computers, which quartz node would be easier to setup around? Also my current layout for reference

[vapid gorge]

up to you really and what other recipes you're using with it and how many comps pm you want

[opal locust]

I don't have mass production plans in mind at the moment, just enough of a facility to get 1 assembler's worth of crystal computers per minute, which is I think 2.8125

[vapid gorge]

doesn't really matter then really right? jsut whatever seems more convenient to you rn

[fringe pawn]

Fundamentally, you're putting quartz, iron, and copper together. Assuming silicon circuit board and crystal computer. You could throw cheap silica and pure quartz crystal into the mix if you want to get the most out of it, in which case you want to bring the solids to water.

[pulsar stone]

Real basic question.
For coal power (no over or under clocking)
How many water pumps are needed for coal generators.
I've been using 7 coal generators and 3 water pumps for each section.
Is it possible to squeeze in another coal generator or two without the water being an issue from only 3 water pumps?
(I'm bad at math)
I'm just trying to get enough power to last until fuel generators.

[wind spade]

open coal generator and see how much water it needs
open water extractor (not pump) and see how much water it gives
do math 🙂

[tawdry crown]

Math says 8 coal plants need 360/min and 3 extractors can pump 360/min

but when i tried it, they were pumping like 355/min for no observible reason

had to overclock one just to keep all 8 coal plants fed

[deft lichen]

you have to wait until the pipeline system is full

instead of overclocking an extractor, temporarily shut down a generator

[tawdry crown]

i did

pipes got full. turned it back on. 5 min later im off doing something else and check the grid graph

ripples driving me nuts

leave all pipes the same. add one more extractor and set all to 75% for 360/min again. works fine.

[sand epoch]

Sounds like a volume problem not an extractor problem :/

[vapid gorge]

were you having all 3 extractors on 1 pipe coming in?

[tawdry crown]

no they were connected at 3 points along the pipe running across the plants

if it was a volume problem (max pipes) why would running one extractor overclocked fix it then hmmmm

[vapid gorge]

that shouldn't be teh fix in any case

pipes often take a while to be 'fixed' after a solution, leads a lot of people to think something is corelated

likely something else that 'fixed' teh issue, even if that something was just time

[tawdry crown]

it ran for an hour, no issues

all pipes showing full

clocked it back to 100% and within 5 minutes it was shorting one plant again

[vapid gorge]

I couldn't begin to guess at the issue you had w/o having been there and seeing it myself. I can tell you that Overclocking would not have been teh actual solution

[tawdry crown]

so, it was "A" fix

i can tell you that overclocking just one by just 25% absolutely allowed all plants to run full with no interruptions

[vapid gorge]

No, it's a fix like people who do homeopathic medicine

they have a cold, take what is esssentially water, and then feel better after a few days

the only thing that actually helped was time but they think the water was the solution

[tawdry crown]

no changes to any pipes

so youre saying, the fact that all the plants would run without interruption was just in my head

[vapid gorge]

yeah, flooding a system and/or 'time' fixes a lot of pipe issues

[tawdry crown]

that the power graph being PERFECTLY STRAIGHT was just coincidence

so why then, when clocked back to 100 did one plant start cutting out about 5 minutes later

was that in my head too?

[vapid gorge]

Couldn't tell you - might be the way it was laid out, maybe it wasn't properly flooded first, maybe it hadn't quite balanced out?

All I'm doing is trying to get you away from homeopathic pipe maintenance.

[tawdry crown]

i was never there in the first place so no thanks

[olive remnant]

Overproduction is a remedy to an imperfect pipe balancing algorithm.

No need for jibes about homoeopathy and placebo... just on your part some more understanding of computer science of calculation errors in fp math, and coding of a recursive balancing algorithm

[mystic moon]

Fluid loss from pipes does not happen. If you make a packaging loop with a perfectly flat 2km pipe, the loop will never stop

[vapid gorge]

by 'over production' you mean initially flooding a system, usually by lowering the consumption until it's flooding? sure

in this case water extractors are an easy option to OC for a bit, but it's not the overclocking that does it, it's creating a flooded system.

it's also entirely possible they just needed to wait for a bit since coal systems are very easy going and have a high tolerance for weird pipe things

[vapid gorge]

and there's TONS of people who develop bad pipe hygiene by doing a ton of changes and 'fixes' and landing on whatever they did last as being the 'fix'

happens constantly. Exactly how people wind up thinking homeopathy works

[mystic moon]

As anyone with an understanding of computer science would understand, floating point error is not consistently above or below the true value, so it does not account for a net loss or gain of any significant amount.

[vapid gorge]

Now there used to be an actual fluid loss bug ages ago but it was stealth fixed. I still see people going on about it like it exists on reddit.

[olive remnant]

Fluid loss, and calculation errors/non infinite recursion are separate things, I did not mention fluid loss.
The guy with the coal gens running dry didn't mention whether imperfect flow caused an extractor to back up and momentarily stop producing - so that could be a possible explanation, and what I'd put my money on as an explanation for the observation of 360m3/min not making it to the generators 100% of the time.
Devs are a small team with limited personhours and more important things to fix, just accept the idiosyncrasy of pipe calcs and overproduce and be done with it, the small power loss from idle and inefficiency of stuff cycling off and on is less of a cost than the potential need to run around manually resetting things, IMO.

[mystic moon]

If you build your pipes properly, they will work reliably, and your machines wil have no detectable downtime

[median heath]

Overbuilding instead of building correctly is certainly an interesting approach.

[vapid gorge]

see you're doing the homeopath thing too - Yes, flooding a system initially (often by underclocking the consumption) is often important to get a stable system. Just generally overfeeding can do the same thing sure - but its a poor solution

[olive remnant]

It also restarts and re floods itself if there's ever a problem, needing manual attention is what I call a poor solution.

[mystic moon]

It does not/should not need manual attention if built properly

[vapid gorge]

some basic pipe rules to have stable and consistent pipe systems at all times #1190597884681396296 message

[wind spade]

You don't need manual attention for pipes

And pipes work fine tbh, just people not understanding them leads to "bugs" which are not really bugs

[vapid gorge]

Which leads back to people making correlations to actions they do with pipes rather than causations

[fringe pawn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550313533997057/1225182398719725728/image.png?ex=66296d86&is=6616f886&hm=d10c89bab0d95f17679fab393e49da44afb334dabaa27954cfca2596b85d889c&

Pipes are plenty forgiving, this weird jank works. 6 lines of 240 that are all interconnected so that one pump can affect everything.

[wind spade]

that looks like a pile of issues waiting to happen

[vapid gorge]

coal power?

[vapid gorge]

gonna guess coal power

coal power is like a stress ball, you can do just about anything to it and it'll be fine. throw it against a wall, twist it whatever. Almost all the problems people seem to have with coal power is doing literally impossible things like more water pm in a pipe than it can handle or not having enough headlift.

after coal fluid systems start resembling a peach, or an egg, where it's very easy to wreck shit if you just slap it around

[fringe pawn]

It's 100% stable after dozens of hours

[vapid gorge]

Sure. I did state coal power is extremely resilient to bullshit

[fringe pawn]

I know because until I expanded it, I kept exactly enough overhead for the hoverpack. Any flicker would have dropped me from the sky.

[sand epoch]

Still not seing anyone say it doesn't work..

[vapid gorge]

doesn't make this statement true though 'Pipes are plenty forgiving, this weird jank works. 6 lines of 240 that are all interconnected so that one pump can affect everything.'

'coal generator systems are plenty forgiving' is accurate though

[fringe pawn]

greeny seemed doubtful

[vapid gorge]

Maw, what we're saying is that later fluid systems won't put up with bullshit like that

[fringe pawn]

Sure they will. It's a miracle my aluminum works. I just fumble around until things are stable.

[sand epoch]

🍿

[wind spade]

I'm just saying that setups like these have way less chance of working properly. I'm not saying they will never work

[vapid gorge]

yeah, almost every time people tell me a system is stable like that they send me their save and I see flickering yellow lights within 30 seconds.

I've noticed people can be very lax with their observations

[wind spade]

especially if it's "the 8th time rebuilding that setup and it's finally working"

[fringe pawn]

Usually I add some sort of loop and that fixes things.

[vapid gorge]

sometimes slapping a system around enough doing random shit can work - almost every time people have done this and shared pics or sent me their save I see yellow lights in the mix of buildings.

[fringe pawn]

I try and make it more obvious for myself, I want things to fail totally versus in a less obvious way.

[uncut flicker]

Hi, idk if I can ask here, ill delete if not. Im building 16 coal generators with 6 water extractors. Should i divide those 6 extractors to use 3 for each 8 generators? Cause i made just one line from those 6 extractores to feed all of the 16 coal generators and somehow something is not working. Sorry if the explanation is inaccurate, english is not my first language. Thanks

Edit: Just found out pipes can "only" carry 300m3.

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch coal+generator

[gray flower]

until mk2 pipes they can do 600m3

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=coal+generator

[vapid gorge]

not sure why you have only in " " xD

[uncut flicker]

Thanks, havent unlocked yet. Anyways, Ive seen people use 3 extractors for 8 generators, so i also need mk2 pipes for that? Cause its 360 water

[vapid gorge]

no, just mk1 , click the link

[uncut flicker]

I see, thanks

[ashen stirrup]

Does anyone know why this shows a bunch of 0/minute steps at the top of the screen? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=LapRjXRz92EUo0PLEDrl

[deft lichen]

@wind spade

[ashen stirrup]

thanks, I was too shy to ping

[primal flicker]

Has to do with the way the program optimizes, iirc. It finds any way to reach the goal using the available recipes and minimum resources, and sometimes that spits out -0- steps like that.

[wind spade]

Rounding error, can safely ignore

[ashen stirrup]

Ok, thanks. I was mostly curious if I could change how I was using it to stop them from showing up.

I'd never seen them before, so I figured it was some kind of error on my end

[wind spade]

You cab move them out of the way but that's about it xD

[primal flicker]

Disable the offending recipes to remove, but I just ignore when it happens.

[uncut flicker]

What does the blue thingy on the left mean?

[primal flicker]

That's where current headlift stops and you attach the pump there.

If you attach downstream, it probably won't get flow.

Useful snapping point.

[uncut flicker]

Alr, thank you

[heady vine]

where to get a ratio of nuclear PP at max overclock to required fuel and produced waster and to how much plutonium rods i can recycle from it?

[sterile tangle]

Anybody know a way to calculate a specific oil setup?
My head hurts from complex equations.
I need to achieve:

• 100/min Polymer Resin
• 1707/min Heavy Oil Residue
• 850/min Fuel
• 4393/min Plastic
• 2800/min Rubber
  No leftovers. I don't wanna sink thousands of petroleum coke.
  Oh and Satisfactory Calculator isn't very helpful with my specific demands.

[fringe pawn]

What exactly are you trying to calculate? How much crude oil you need? Building counts?

What alts do you have?

[primal flicker]

What are you doing with 1707 residue? It's not an end product...

[primal flicker]

Use TOOLS instead. Be sure to check the alts you intend to use.

[fringe pawn]

If that's what you wanted 🤷

[sterile tangle]

OMG how do i always hear about SF calculater? This is 10x better!

[sterile tangle]

thats why...

tryna get stack/minute for every item that the player uses.

so far i figured that i'm interested in only 23 alt recipes.

[fringe pawn]

You want stacks of packaged HOR? That's an interesting rabbit hole to go down, are you going for packaged sulfuric acid, nitric acid, alumina solution, and so forth as well?

[primal flicker]

There are 32 items worth storing for buildables. Plus consummables/ammo.

[fringe pawn]

There's an argument for storing ores and ingots if you want to included prefilled buildings in blueprints or to otherwise fill up a manfiold. But I don't know where that sort of thing could ever make sense with liquids. You need to add a packager in somehow for that.

Unless 1.0 adds the ability for us to use packaged liquids directly and get empty containers back.

Or even just chuck the containers as part of the process

[sterile tangle]

uh, no, for liquids, only fuels.

and generaly only items the player uses. Even the eccess ones... but i won't be storing stuff like Copper Powder

[wind spade]

@pulsar atlas see #satisfactory message for alt recipe choices

[hot bison]

anyone know how to get this

[median heath]

Just stick your hand through the holes, duh.

[hot bison]

doesnt work

[median heath]

Skill issue.

[hot bison]

🙄

[median heath]

Said skill being your ability to read the " " in my reply.

And the inability to read the actual answer already given --> " "

[hot bison]

k well im tired long day lol my b

[mystic moon]

Depending on where you're at in the game I'd pick one of the first two

[median heath]

All 3 are good.

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[median heath]

I would personally pick Bolted Frame. Now that enough time has passed and the person has probably picked already.

[opal locust]

computer factory online. went ahead with my silicon circuit board + crystal computer plan

[fringe pawn]

How many ppm? That's going to feed your sink nicely.

[mystic moon]

Probably somewhere around 4-6

[fringe pawn]

3 assemblers, I guess 7.5!

[clear citrus]

I forget how significant being able to make computers with the oil free alt chain is.
For all that there's only so much oil there's also only so much quartz, but I suppose quartz has less in the way of needed uses

[vapid gorge]

is it that important? lots of oil on the map

[median heath]

I forget how significant being able to make computers with the oil free alt chain is.

??

[vapid gorge]

Oh, maybe you don't know about the recycle loop?

[median heath]

Oil is not a limited resource at all.

[clear citrus]

regarding it being that important, I have a recollection of playing a long time ago with people discussing plenty about how amazing it is to make computers without oil, heralding it as so much better

[vapid gorge]

oh, maybe the recycle loop didn't exist then. I was only around u4 or so

[clear citrus]

but i have done nonsensical recyle looping shenanigans before

[median heath]

People say a lot of dumb shit 🤷‍♂️

Is the oil-free chain good? Yes.
It is OMG SO AMAZING MUCH BETTER? Hell no.

[clear citrus]

I had the looping in an ammo factory in a save that no longer exists

[vapid gorge]

maybe you talked to some odd people 😄

Like the computer chain that is just oil and caterium is quite nice and convenient sometimes

[clear citrus]

I mean, Sev, it wasn't just like some random people in chat, it was everyone, even Greeny I think

I miss my ammo factory. One big cube generating every type of consumable I might want to use, from rebar to filters

[vapid gorge]

I take it that was before all hte new ammos?

[clear citrus]

It had some special rebars and nobelisks I remember, not sure about bullets

It is strictly speaking liable to have been from a different time than when everybody was on a hype train about computers without oil

It's not liked I leave the game and play a lot again on a tracked schedule

[vapid gorge]

I guess silica cb and crystal comps just need crystal, copper and iron with the right recipes. That's fairly convenient too

[clear citrus]

in my current, modern save I'm at the point of hand crafting oscillators to get radar tower, one machine for heavy frames, and oil only feeding one refinery each to get rubber/plastic. As it stands I'm not really remembering much Vanilla to use quartz for besides computer alts

[vapid gorge]

entirely depends on what alts you go for. You can have nearly no silica use if you aim that way

in fact I think you only need a tiny bit of crystal if you really force it

[clear citrus]

do we not go for "get every alt"

[vapid gorge]

get every alt isn't use every alt 🙂

you can set up chains that use TONS of silica, or little to none is all I'm saying

these are all the recipes with silica

and the HSC CB and ingots which are the main ones have non silica options

same with the U cells too

and concrete

huh I guess you could make a whole game that doesn't use silica for anything

[clear citrus]

The main thing I like silica for is balancing out the raw quartz draw with crystals, because of their numbers

[vapid gorge]

wdym?

[clear citrus]

Crystal takes 37.5. Silica takes 22.5. 60.

[vapid gorge]

xD I guess, but what if you don't use crystal and cilica in that ratio in that spot? Like I said, yo ucould just never use silica

and you can make pure crystal and cheap silica

[clear citrus]

Bottom up factories using full output of nodes.
I could convert an entire node to either, or both, and there's always sinking if I didn't have a way to use the full node. Like if another input couldn't match it

[vapid gorge]

but then does it matter what ratio their recipes are in?

could jsut split a quartz node 1/2 1/2

[median heath]

Remember when everyone was declaring that Fluid Trains sucked?

[clear citrus]

It's just nice that the return to 60 counts grants exact machine counts

I do have some vague memory of that being a thing people said. Again, everyone, even Greeny

[median heath]

And again, everyone was wrong.

[clear citrus]

Yea, nah, they definitely were not wrong to say "bringing the dries to the wets is better than bringing the wets to the dries".
Pumps are part of that, it's not just the trains.
Of course I trained around oil to my ammo factory and space elevator factory anyway.

Though I see we even have mk 2 pipes now. I don't remember those

[median heath]

"bringing the dries to the wets is better than bringing the wets to the dries".

1. Better is subjective, so yes that is wrong to say.
2. This was never said in reference to trains, this was always about coal power. Which is an entire phase before trains.

[clear citrus]

Yes, 2 was said in reference to trains. It was said in reference to anything that ever involved moving liquid.

[median heath]

People saw Fluid Cars can hold only 1600 an assumed that meant they were bad as Freight can hold 3200.
So they ran with it.

When the actual math proved the opposite to be true.

[clear citrus]

The math people are the ones I listen to, I never cared about the arbitrary populace.
And then I did what I wanted anyway because who cares if I just need to make a longer train or another power plant or whatever

[vapid gorge]

Sev is a train math person 😄

I can imagine people not liking dealing with fluids saying something like that though

[median heath]

*Logistics math.

[clear citrus]

For the record, better is not subjective.
Preference is subjective and doesn't need to adhere to objectivity. I once made a huge screw factory and ridiculous screw train. Because I could.
But with this being such a math and construction game, "better" is objective.
The most output from the least input, located where it needs the least distance for the logistics

[median heath]

For the record, in Satisfactory, better is absolutely and without room for dispute subjective.

[clear citrus]

It is absolutely and without room for dispute objective. That only changes when there is infinite nodes.

[median heath]

Continue in ignorance, I am done with this conversation.

[vapid gorge]

I suspect you might be misremembering things people have said

'better' is only objective when you make very specific requirements though.

and since everyone's requirements are different everyone is going to have a different end solution to 'better'

[frosty owl]

People play for different reasons, in different ways and pursuing different kinds of "fun". Saying they should all strive towards the same "objectively best" solution seems shallow and reductive, tbh...

[north monolith]

This discussion seems to be about the word "better" having different meanings for different people - for Old Song it seems that "better" = "logistically more efficient", Ven Cum "better" = "more fun for a given person", Cobalt "better" = "more aligned with personal requirements" and so on.

[vapid gorge]

logistically more efficient is also wobbly. On what metric? cause if it's just throughput just belts everywhere

[wind spade]

And especially because "better" has different meanings for different people, you should specify what do you mean by better

[north monolith]

Yeah, I couldn't find more fitting description, I aimed to mostly underline the problem here

[fringe pawn]

Playing better is overrated. Maybe my next gold cup will cut out oil and copper (except powder).

[north monolith]

Yeah. I constantly feel peer pressure seeing how much time I'm spending on trying to integrate my buildings into the environment without harming the plants and so on, thinking how almost everyone would see that as utterly stupid and pointless. And yet it gives me a lot of joy afterwards.

[frosty owl]

Imo (loosely speaking) for something to be "better" than something else, it needs to fulfill a player's preferences "better" than other solutions. Since the last "better" in that sentence depends on user preferences, it's not objective ^^
Eg: players who likes to rush through milestones are unlikely to find balancers "best" for their use, more like a waste of time; similar for players who don't care about ore efficiency or big numbers and Pure Ingot recipes and the Water complexity they add... And so on

[primal flicker]

More joy = Better imo

[north monolith]

"Better" being subjective is very close to "better" being dependent on user preferences. But it misses the pretty common scenario when "better" for a given person means "better aligned with external rules" as for The Old Song.
In which pressing the case of "better = preferences" might be really hard to understand for that person, because without going a bit more abstract (into the semantics), external rules (as in this case "better = less materials + more output with minimal logistics", which is a common rule from the real world) will never be equal to personal preferences. And for a lot of people external, real world rules seem to be objective, hence "better" might also seem completely objective to them.

So while I agree with you, provided that "preferences" also contain "unconscious preference to follow external rules as objective truth", I want to state that "better" being seemingly objective is quite normal and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just my two cents on that.

[wind spade]

While that can be true, this still applies ^

If you want to ask/talk about best/better, you need to specify what your best/better means

[wind spade]

I definitely did not say that

At least not in current balance. Maybe in like U2 or something

[north monolith]

Yes, specifying your assumptions / mental framework is the best strategy in communication.

[wind spade]

Which is usually what we mean by "best is subjective". Not that everything is always subjective, but that we can't knkw preferences of the user, so from our POV it's subjective

[north monolith]

I understand that, but a person might not know that their preferences are actually preferences, as I tried to outline in my bigger piece up there, so they won't understand your point of view

It's like religion or morality or a lot of stuff - most of people don't question them, don't see it as their personal choice and preference, they assume it's an objective truth

[wind spade]

I usually just ask "what do you mean by best"

[north monolith]

That's super valid

[median heath]

Just for rounding out context, this is what started the rabbit trail:

"bringing the dries to the wets is better than bringing the wets to the dries".

Someone declared that, I countered with the truth of it being subjective, and so on until now.

[north monolith]

You seemed to be more or less agreeable to the point when Song said "better is not subjective" and you countered with "better is absolutely and without room for dispute subjective" which is always a nice way to talk to others and build mutual understanding

[oblique hollow]

instead of "better" it is usually better in your own interest to just say what metric it improves (or you think it improves)

better and best are often thrown around when talking about recipe combinations and whatnot and thats just always such a dry topic

because its like "what metric do you think it improves, instead of just being 'better' "

[frosty owl]

Right? After all, the only thing that's better is sushi...

[cinder silo]

Seriously mixed up belts 😀

[wind spade]

you know I disagree 😛

but since my fiancee is called "Sushi", I can just pretend you're talking about her

[idle stirrup]

From a game performance standpoint, wouldn't bringing the wets to the dry be more efficient, based on pipes being less CPU/GPU intensive than an active belt with flowing material?

[primal flicker]

All sushi.
No smart/prog splitters.

[primal flicker]

I proposed this before.
Game has to calculate headlift, fill/flow of each segment, sloshing, etc... Might be worse.

[idle stirrup]

Yeah, but there's no real rendering cost for the pipe versus a 780 belt of screws for example.

*I'm assuming

[primal flicker]

There's no rendering cost for anything outside of simulation radius.

[idle stirrup]

From an item count standpoint however, if you're worried about hitting the item limit, wets to dry is better, because the items on the belts count towards the item limit

[oblique hollow]

the true reason why bringing the wets to the dries is usually not very beneficial is simply cause it takes so much longer, without considering troubleshooting

[oblique hollow]

what. no the items on belts dont count

unless you mean transport speed efficiency

[idle stirrup]

Does each item thats on each belt in terms of inventory capacity not count against the item limit in the world? I assumed it did, similar to items inside cotainers, machines, vehicles, etc

[primal flicker]

Those aren't items. They're shaders.

[oblique hollow]

they are all meshes written directly to the GPU, they are not real objects

[primal flicker]

And the item limit has to do with built things. Not inventory. (Unless I'm sadly mistaken)

[oblique hollow]

the only item data is an array inside the belts, which is just stinky normal data

and doesnt contribute to the uobject limit

[idle stirrup]

oh cool, thats good to know then

[oblique hollow]

Exception: inventory UIs

UI elements count towards the limit

[primal flicker]

Weird... But interesting. And a constant, more or less.

[oblique hollow]

right now no, its a major leak contributer

open an inventory and close it again a few times

[primal flicker]

Oh no...

[oblique hollow]

surefire way to crash the game due to hitting the limit

so dont go around opening/closing containers too fast

[orchid escarp]

Hello,How do I know how many trucks I need to transport a certain amount of material? Example I have 4 miners outputting 480 each, let's say I want to take all that to spot A, and the time to drive the truck would be 5 min. How many trucks I need to have the same output at destination? Thanks ❤️

[primal flicker]

What about the parts shown in dismantle mode?

[oblique hollow]

how many items stacks do you accumulate in 5 minutes if its 480 items per minute?
if its ore: stack size is 100

[oblique hollow]

stencils, not real objetcs. just shader magic

[orchid escarp]

yea iron ore

[oblique hollow]

100 is the stack size then
480 * 5 = 2400 items

divide by 100 = 24 stacks

a truck stations transfers 2 stacks per second
a tractor has 25 slots

assuming the tractor takes 5 minutes from A to B and back, thats 24 stacks every 5 minutes, so a single tractor could do it

when in doubt, add a second tractor to the same route

oh wait 480/min EACH

[orchid escarp]

alright thanks so much, I couldn't get my head around it. Also dont they collide if on the same route?

[orchid escarp]

that would be 4 trucks then, right?

[oblique hollow]

2 stations and 4 tractors because a station only has 2 belt connections

if you have trucks, those have 48 inventory slots

my final guess would be 2 stations per pickup / dropoff point, with 4 trucks in total

[oblique hollow]

Yep, they can block each other.
give them WIDE rooms so they dont have to face opposing traffic

its not an issue if they all run the same direction

but opposing traffic to close to each other is bad

[orchid escarp]

and I guess I need buffers at both ends?

[oblique hollow]

would probably be beneficial, but my guess is its optional

[orchid escarp]

all right, thanks you very much ❤️

too bad there is not a voice channel in this server, it would be very helpfull

[oblique hollow]

we used to have them but then lost them

[orchid escarp]

what happened

[oblique hollow]

cant say, too obscure and far back

[primal flicker]

Failure to be moderated afaik

[frosty owl]

I allow you to be wrong.
I am magnanimous

[frosty owl]

Half-full belts "cost" the same performance as full belts - > the least belts (for the same items/min), the better - > sushi is bestest

Jokes aside, I tent to agree: I think pipes cost less performance than belts, so bringing the wet to the dry should cost less performance (fluids are also in smaller volume, overall, I think, so less items/min moved far away overall)

[wind spade]

fluids are not smaller in volume, game counts in liters

[frosty owl]

Good point. I stand by the rest

[wind spade]

also items need just "how far progressed along a belt", while fluids have the whole dynamic thing going on. My bet would be on pipes more resource intensive

[north monolith]

I've always assumed the same thing

[mystic moon]

Yeah, I'd definitely assume that pipes would be more computationally intense, especially on the cpu side where you're going to run into issues anyways

[median heath]

I wonder if fluid trains slosh while driving on the tracks 😁

[mystic moon]

They probably have a good internal baffle system 👍

[fringe pawn]

I've always wondered how much fluid simulation even adds to the game, versus just making pipes 'stupid' and having them automatically feed.

There's something to be said for the coolness of conveyor belts rendering individual items which you can pluck and immediately use if you want. The nuances of manifolds versus balancers and everything else that comes along with splitter behavior. But pipes don't get any of that, and don't have the same wow factor right now.

[north monolith]

I never thought of that, but that's a pretty valid observation. So much work went into the pipes and the mechanics seem to be a good attempt to simulate fluids and yet in the end it doesn't seem to be worth it. It's kinda sad in my eyes. But I have no idea what could be done to make the pipes actually fun and engaging.

[fringe pawn]

Now that 8 constructor and 10 smelter blueprints are a thing, that disincentivizes refinery recipes that much more, too. And you can even go multilevel blueprints if you want even more in one click.

[north monolith]

I personally enjoy refineries and resolving belts+pipes placement issues on tight vertical builds. But I avoid blenders with all of their inputs so close to each other.

[fringe pawn]

Endgame, you can just plop a 26 smelter blueprint right at a node, I just realized.

[north monolith]

does individual pieces of train tracks count as separate objects for the object limit? Is it best to keep the pieces as long as possible?

[oblique hollow]

They probably do but you shouldnt worry about those

As you wont need as many tracks as you will need other things

Overclocking machines would help more in that regard

[mystic moon]

My advice is don't worry about the object limit

Even if it becomes an issue it's not really an issue

[north monolith]

How so? I know it can be changed by modifying some file, but what about crashes and performance?

[wind spade]

Because you will almost never hit it

[north monolith]

Oh, ok. I saw too many times "object limit is much lower/you'll hit the liimit much faster than you'd expect"

And started worrying

[wind spade]

It's the opposite actually

It's just that some items count as more than one object, so you can't just count number of placed items

[north monolith]

Ok then, that's a relief

[frosty owl]

You can load-balance pipes.
I mean, it takes a whole lot of space and adds geometric restrictions to the build, but... It's possible

[fringe pawn]

The more I play rocky desert with blueprints, the more I keep deciding to make things out of only iron whenever possible. There's just so much of iron, and not needing to route a second resource is nice. I even find myself reconsidering cast screws and an otherwise all default rotor factory.

4 blueprints, done. You might be able to squeeze the whole thing into a multifloor blueprint.

I'm definitely not going to do it, but that's how I'd end up sectioning rotors out in that build, because there's plenty of spare iron to be inefficient.

[tame birch]

how much does 1 coal generator takes coal per minute?

[wind spade]

build the gen, put coal in, it will tell you 😉

[tame birch]

I know it but i dont have coal nearby and i need to know how much i have to place

[wind spade]

well then you can either find coal or open wiki 🙂

[tame birch]

Bruh isn't this discord supposted to help😂

[wind spade]

give a man a fish, feed him for a day
teach him how to fish, feed him for life

basically, I'm showing you how to find info yourself, so next time you are gonna get stuck, you'll know where to find the answers

[median heath]

15/min

@wind spade that one I directly answer because it 100% should be in the Codex, but it isn't for some reason.

[wind spade]

I'm pretty sure they have updates to that in 1.0. Codex is very lacking, but I assume they didn't give it much love because it isn't a major part of the game

[median heath]

All other machine information can be gained without building the actual machine via the codex.

Power could easily do this as well, as I have shown many times how to format it.
For some reason it remains the exception.

[wind spade]

they don't show the most important metric - item energy 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Fair. But for more simplistic understanding they could just list available fuels and burn rates for coal, fuel, and nuclear generators.

This would also solve the problem of how the vast majority doesn't know you can put Coke in the coal gen.

[wind spade]

this sounds like something that should be in the generator directly (and I know you don't like it, but Factorio does that and it works great)

(if you hover over fuel slot, it shows you accepted fuel items)

[median heath]

Does Fucktorio have an in-game codex?

[wind spade]

in inventory menu, you basically have list of all recipes (non-handcraftable ones are red), so I'd say yea

it's not directly codex in terms of "how can I make X", but you can search in it, so it's pretty close

[median heath]

List of recipes is far less than what the codex provides.

[wind spade]

what would you want from it?

[median heath]

So I would say their lack of codex is why the hover over slot works fine.

Our having a codex makes it better to have the information in there.

[median heath]

I want nothing from that game 😄

[wind spade]

no I mean what would you want from codex in a factory building game

so that I can say whether or not the information is available in Factorio

[median heath]

But the codex has recipes, also has all the buildings and their descriptions, recipes tell you WHICH buildings make them, and so on.

[wind spade]

in Factorio if you hover over a recipe, it tells you where it's made

[median heath]

Yes, so same information, just not centralized.

[wind spade]

well it's "centralised" to the inventory menu (as handcrafting doesn't require a workbench and happens automatically on the background)

[median heath]

Satis has a centralized codex.
Hence my saying the generator info should just add to that system instead of randomly being a "hover for info" like nothing else in the game.

[wind spade]

I didn't say "hover for info", I just said that the generator could/should provide that info as well

the same as it says how much water it needs, it should say how much of fuel it needs

[median heath]

That info is already available once you put either resource in the generator.

I'm saying that does not need to be altered (contrary to you).
And that they just need to put it in the codex.

[wind spade]

which doesn't resolve the issue of "how do I know what can I put inside"

and yes, that can be done in codex, but also pretty much all the info you have in the codex, you also have in machines, and I'd rather have it in two places than in none

[frosty owl]

I think that's a fun discovery in itself ^^

[median heath]

The part of my brain that hates imprecision hopes Compacted's burn rate gets slightly adjusted in 1.0

[idle stirrup]

You can do this recipe in 2 blueprints: 1 Blueprint to turn ore -> Ingots (9 smelters for 270 iron). 2nd blueprint can actually fit everything in your list for rotors, it'll require 3 floors: 1) 8 Rod constructors on floor 1 + all inbound/outbound logistics 2) Floor 2 with 12 constructors -- very tight but can be done 3) 6 assemblers -- also tight, but can be done.

[primal flicker]

It's 50/7 so doesn't the whole number ratio solve any imprecision?

[wind spade]

you can still make it whole number 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

i think its funny and should stay

[worldly bone]

do foundries end up taking as much space as smelters end game?

trying to decide if they need their own floor in my mega factory

[wanton dawn]

The best way to find out is to place foundations then a smelter and a foundry to see first hand.

[worldly bone]

overall not per piece

like i think i will need 2000ish smelters, but only maybe 250-500ish foundries? Haven't played endgame since U6 and alot of it depends on the foundries alt recipes usefulness

[fringe pawn]

Well, it's hard to compare the space requirements of a foundry and smelter due to the different beltwork needed. Is this also in terms of choosing between copper alloy and default copper ingot?

[gleaming iris]

over 300 hours and I'm just now finding out you can put coke in the coal generators.

[fringe pawn]

I remember just continuously building more ISCs to store petroleum coke to deal with it, instead of coal generators. I had run out of room on the platform I built, such that ISCs fit, but a sink didn't. And I just kept building the ISC column higher instead of making room for a sink once I saw coke wasn't worth much in the sink anyway.

[wind spade]

why not sink? 😛

even if it's low value, it's still free points

[fringe pawn]

I did eventually, at whatever point I got tired of going vertical with more ISCs

I was as green as grass at that point, so I think I might have had the idea that it might come in handy for something down the road.

[frosty owl]

Not if you sushi 😆

[primal flicker]

Never stockpile any unlimited resource.

[fringe pawn]

I mean, I know that now

[median heath]

So... never stockpile anything?

[wind spade]

stockpile hard drives and artifacts 😛

[fringe pawn]

HDDs and artifacts are a safe bet. Beyond that, for all we know fertile uranium for maximum plutonium rods will be the future meta because SAM + plutonium waste becomes the best sink item.

[clear citrus]

for that matter at some point where I wasn't around did they ever say anything about what those artifacts are actually going to do?

[median heath]

Or there will be new alts using SAM that change nuclear entirely.

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is trusting the rotor switcheroo as being the only change to nuclear.

I'm still hoping for another recycling stage. Even if that amount of power is pointless.

[median heath]

I would not like to see that.

[clear citrus]

I am all for recycling stages, so long as they don't reach a point where I just go "I can't be bothered I'll just sink it instead of finishing the production line"

[fringe pawn]

Mk2 and Mk3 nuclear nobelisks would be amusing, if they required plutonium cells and [third stage] cells, respectively.

Enrichment is fun!

[idle stirrup]

I'm really hoping for a mk2 Awesome Sink in 1.0: Would be really nice to have one with a 2nd input (especially if you use sinks at truck/train stations)

[fierce cypress]

just build two

[fringe pawn]

That feels like a weird sort of edge case to have so many things close together than you can't manufacture into something to then put in the sink, that you'd need a second belt.

Maybe we'll get the ability to snap mergers directly to any input or output and that'll work out regardless.

[fierce cypress]

i thought they said that this wouldn't be a thing (in reference to mk3 oc miner output) but i may be misremembering

[fresh mesa]

remind me, one pure coal can feed 6 gens?

[mystic moon]

Yes

[fierce cypress]

one pure coal with a mk1 miner produces 120 coal/min
one coal gen consumes 15 coal/min
120/15 = 8

so it can feed 8 generators with a mk1 miner and mk2 belts

[fresh mesa]

cool. been a while since i played so it's slowly coming back. I want to get to nuclear before i call it quits again

i think i found a uramium spot overworld where there's a node underground. I didn't think the radioactive effect extended above ground

[vapid gorge]

Might be a deposit nearby

[fresh mesa]

Does anybody know the file location for the scanner's dong sound?

[median heath]

Usually I don't spend my time looking into specifics about anyone or anything's dong.

But that's just me.

[fierce cypress]

@deep ingot, i would recommend option 2

(from mcgalleon's pipe guide, can be found in the pins)

[deep ingot]

That's actually exactly how I had it

I had exactly the amount of output water being consumed directly by alumina solution machines which were not connected to any other water source

But small perturbations in any part of the whole process would have one machine or another go idle for a second here or there and eventually the water kept backing up

[fierce cypress]

i also like to make sure the system runs at 100% even when using option 2, which you can ensure by having overflow splitters going into awesome sinks

[fierce cypress]

if the system is running at 100% and you've done a full system flush and let it get going from scratch, and the pipes are still clogging it's most likely something to do with your pipe network, you can send screenshots in a #1038092680493801533 post and someone should be able to help

[deep ingot]

Glad to see all of my ideas present on that sheet though. Coal seemed the most stable option to me since it's entirely independent and guaranteed always on

[fierce cypress]

you can always resort to that if you can't get other options to work

but it's usually ideal to deal with the waste water at the plant

[deep ingot]

Yeah that's how I've got it now, will probably just leave it. Putting the water back into the input feels elegant but doesn't really offer any real benefits besides the effort spent on setting up the coal plant haha

Thanks for the resources

[fierce cypress]

if it's already up and running and don't need the coal for something else then its probably fine

alu can always be a pain

[opal locust]

why isn't this setup working? I put smart splitters to feed the specific material, but they're not getting fed into the manufacturers

[median heath]

What are the settings on the smarts?

[opal locust]

left material, center any undefined

[median heath]

Center = Overflow.
Always.

[opal locust]

that's not the problem, the problem is they're not feeding into the manufacturers

[median heath]

Ah right, I forgot I don't know how sushi works.

My mistake. I will see myself out and try not to look at my entire portfolio that's sitting by the door.

[median heath]

Once you have done that to all of them, make sure THIS one actually has somewhere to send the overflow.

My recommendation, given this looks like a temporary setup, is loop it back into the ISCs. NOT the line itself.

Should be able to just loop it back to 1 smart that has each side set to 1 of the 3 items, going into the ISCs.

If you want to clean it up even further, you can swap the output belts from the ISC's that are going into the mergers to lower grades.
Mk1 for the Frames, mk1 or 2 for the Beams, and mk2 for the Rubber.

Let me know if this did NOT fix it.

[opal locust]

now it's working

[median heath]

If the total amount need by the 3 machines is less than 480/min that should be fine.

High potential that the Modular Frames just start looping and block the other 2 products though.

If the loop part does jam, just route it back to the ISCs instead.

[opal locust]

225 per minute, and yea it is jamming

[median heath]

Looping belts = bad.
Looping pipes = necessary.

The beauty of Satis.

[wind spade]

Looping train = rollercoaster

[median heath]

Looping Factory Cart = ? 👀

@opal locust regarding Any Undef - has very rare use-cases that only like 3% of the playerbase will ever build to.
And is almost never used on smarts.
When you get into the optimal use-cases of poggers, that's where you see Any Undef.

[opal locust]

I'm making 28 versatile frameworks per minute, and I need 2,500. This is going to take a bit.

[wind spade]

I guess I'm in 3%

Tho I wouldn't say "building a sorting system" is only 3% of players

[median heath]

1. So you have actually played and built on recently?
2. Pics?
3. Where/why are you using Any Undef? (only if 1 and 2 are completed)

[wind spade]

sort container has belt with any undef going to the right, so that things can overflow if not defined for sorting

[median heath]

"PL" = ?

[wind spade]

platform

or any other source of production

[median heath]

I do not understand this drawing.

[wind spade]

"SORT" is a container for "dump your stuff in here"

[median heath]

Ew.

But that also doesn't bring clarity.

[vapid gorge]

mix of personal sorting and train sorting I guess?

[wind spade]

train does not sort, train is not mixed

[median heath]

He also didn't provide 1 or 2, so 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

it's a central storage system

ISC is the storage, things come by train (or any other option), get stored in the container and the top line of smart splitters is set to "overflow" for sink

[median heath]

Not one that I have seen 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

bottom line of smart splitters is for sorting your personal inventory and it hooks to the same belting so that you return your stuff to the storage when done

at the end of the sort line (right edge) is processing of things like biomass, slugs, etc.

[wind spade]

well there's not a singular way to build sorting + storage systems 🤷‍♂️

[vagrant storm]

Is it possible to bring the throughput of a mk1 belt down to 30 pm with sushi
So I have 60 Batteries merged with 60 Limestone on a mk1 belt would that make 30 Batteries and 30 Limestone travel on this belt?

[oblique hollow]

yes it would

[vagrant storm]

ok

[oblique hollow]

you can also just loop half of a mk 1 belt back on itself to make it 30/min with no other resources

[deep ingot]

is there an intuitive explanation someone can give me for why this works? does flow straight through a junction simply supercede flow at right angles?

though i guess then it wouldnt need to be vertical

[median heath]

No.
We can explain the how.
But we cannot explain the why.

It does need to be vertical.

We simply accept that it does work.

[deep ingot]

dang ok thats what i didnt want to hear haha. I was hoping it wasnt just like an emergent property of the game

ty though

[median heath]

It works.
It works reliably.
Do you need more?

[deep ingot]

yea i like that it works, but its more satisfying to me if i could have logic'ed my way to building it myself instead of just observing quirks and saying "guess thats how it is"

[median heath]

There are many advanced things in the game that cannot be logic'd to.
They were found via expirementation and testing.

Some of them were then reverse-engineered to discover the why, but that doesn't work on all of them.

[deep ingot]

makes sense, just wanted to make sure that this was indeed one of those

[median heath]

Build fun rooms like this and see what happens when you do different things.

There's also some very random fun headlift stuff that occurs only at "sea level" because the Z position of 0 is actually higher than that.
So "sea level" is technically negative elevation.

[granite nova]

no clue if this is right channel but which one?

[median heath]

All of them are good.

Pick whichever you, personally like.
You will unlock all alts eventually.

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message

pretty much always you want to pick yourself rather than asking others

[granite nova]

alr ty both of you

[wind spade]

the linked message has tons of info

[granite nova]

oh alr ty!

[vagrant storm]

Is this System fail safe for Batteries

[oblique hollow]

what even is the point of this

[vagrant storm]

Batteries Distribution in Nuclear pp

[oblique hollow]

just split the main belt in 4?

why do this weird limiting down to 15/min

[wind spade]

what are you trying to achieve?

what you've shown is basically "how to make 60/min into 60/min, but more convoluted"

[ashen stirrup]

Is there something useful I'm missing about Iron Wire being 22.5/minute output?

[wind spade]

if you need that much as input 🤷‍♂️

[ashen stirrup]

The only recipe where the ratio matches appears to be the Beacon

Ah, Batteries apparently match

[wind spade]

any recipes match if you clock

[fringe pawn]

Unless you scale things up. 4 constructors put out 90 wire, 8 constructors will put out 180 wire. And of course you can play with clocks.

[ashen stirrup]

Ok, so you can do 8:3 to make cable or something. That's not awful

[ashen stirrup]

only if the divisibility works with the limited precision of clock speeds 🙂

[fringe pawn]

You can make stitched iron plate work

[wind spade]

that doesn't matter

if you clock machine higher but only provide enough resources for the smaller amount, it will make the smaller amount

[ashen stirrup]

That's pretty cool, actually. Looks like 5 iron wire to 3 stitched plate. Now I just gotta figure out where that iron plate rate fits in, lol

[fringe pawn]

Down clock the stitched plate assembler to need 20 wire and 10 plate per minute. That makes the ratios very easy.

I'm going from memory, but I think it's 80%?

[ashen stirrup]

Math looks like that would be 53.3 repeating %

[wind spade]

clock to 53.3334% and easy

[ashen stirrup]

My goal here is exactness, lol

One part in ten thousand is still an amount of error

[wind spade]

the machine will stop for a second once in a few hours

[ashen stirrup]

Don't get me wrong, I do usually just build my factories by using your wonderful calculator and plugging in the clock rates it gives me. This is just something I think is fun for its own sake, not because the inefficiency will matter in practical terms

[fringe pawn]

What's the clock speed for 30 wire and 15 plates per minute?

[ashen stirrup]

Cool, that's 80%

That pulls things down to a point where it works well with default wire and iron plate recipes

[fringe pawn]

8 wire constructors at 100%, 6 plate constructors at 75%, 6 assemblers at 80% works? 3 blueprints, less if you go multi-level.

[ashen stirrup]

That's cool. So it's got synergies with both iron wire and normal wire

It's a bit less elegant, but you could also do 5 iron wire constructors at 100%, 3 plate constructors at 93.75%, and 3 assemblers at 100%.

[frosty owl]

I like how it reflects on input. I often clock it so that it takes 30 ingots/min and often end up making sets of two, for a nice 60/min

[fringe pawn]

That whole thing could fit in a double-decker blueprint, so you could just tile it endlessly.

[ashen stirrup]

And with just one input, one output. Nice

[fringe pawn]

That concept increases the appeal of iron only products. I just went back to looking at the default rotor recipe with cast screw, in the context of blueprints recently. Modular frames also work nicely if you go iron only.

[magic island]

your loopbacks will just gradually clog until all 60/min continuously flows out of the only exit belt left

to do this kind of fractional split, both the 15 and the leftover 45 eventually have to exit the loop and get used/sunk elsewhere.

merging back into the source is a trick that CAN help with achieving unusual ratios, but both portions still have to have an exit path

and it's not needed here anyway because 15/45 is an easy split

[versed violet]

Are you building an 15p/m throughput limiter? Looks like it should work.

I use similar thing to limit packaged fuel deliveries, so it doesnt fill the whole drone port on receiving side.

[magic island]

any situation where input exceeds output = something will back up

and there's nothing stopping most/all batteries travelling straight out the "15" exit once the loops get full

[wind spade]

mk1 belts

although yeah, once they fill, it's 60/min through exit

[versed violet]

No, merger will always take from all inputs in turn, so it limits the actual input belt to max it can fir.

[wind spade]

so it's 20/min output

[magic island]

the particular dynamics of clogging might give you a bit less than 60/min out, and distribute the clogging back toward the source

but more than 15/min will get through

[versed violet]

so need a second merger after the first one and loop the 15ppm there

[vagrant storm]

so i have to make an other Idea because I want a throughput limiter of 15/min no matter what is going to happen.

[magic island]

look, no matter what you do here

if you try to put 60 in and get 15 out, some combination of the following will happen:

• the system will eventually output more than 15 ppm
• the system's input will back up toward its source

different arrangments of mergers/splitters may hit different equilibriums, but that extra 45 doesn't vanish. some amount will get added to the output belt, and some amount will back up the input belt

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, you need to sink or otherwise divert the 45 extra batteries to a different line.

[magic island]

you need to consume or sink the remaining 45

[versed violet]

the idea here is to recycle 45 pieces, so they MUST go through the middle belt again. this leaves only 15 ppm usable space.

I do not remember how to recycle excalty 45 into belt tho, I know loping back two belts from splitter to merger limits the belt to 20ppm

[magic island]

but those recycled 45 get added to the 60 input

so on the first iteration of the loop, you now have 105 coming in instead of 60

and since the belts are all Mk1 and can't carry that much, that's when the clogging begins

[fringe pawn]

I get that you can play with clogging. But why not just sink instead?

[vagrant storm]

I think im going with 20 and a merger with susi

[versed violet]

why sink useful things?

[fringe pawn]

By all appearances they are not being used? So it's questionable whether they are useful?

[vagrant storm]

that is the purpose of the exercise

[fringe pawn]

Diverting to ISCs also works if you want to stockpile them for whatever reason.

[versed violet]

20 ppm limiter

[magic island]

plenty of reasons to sink "useful" parts

• the factory that consumes the part isn't built yet
• it's going to personal construction storage, which will back up eventually if not spent at the same rate
• it's going toward vehicle fuel, which may be consumed unevenly resulting in excess
• want points

[versed violet]

resons to limit belt:

• it goes into very long route that will take eternity to back up
• items are needed elsewhere, but actual number is not know.

[fringe pawn]

Why not just down clock the battery machines instead? You're going to clog them which will functionally do the same thing?

[versed violet]

that assumes manufacturing happens at the same area. Batteries may well be shipped by train and divided here.

[fringe pawn]

The only difference is the time it would take to jam the machines. So again you're just effectively stockpiling batteries in a different way. So why not just split off to ISCs?

[versed violet]

I'm not asking why it is needed. I don't care. I'm solving the problem presented.

[vagrant storm]

thats my solution i came up for

QW is 20 PM

The reason is i use a sort of manifold with drones that are bidirectional. If you want to hate me because of that, i have no problem with it.

[versed violet]

I think this should limit to 15ppm, but not sure. there is no priority merger ingame
Obsolete, look here: #math-and-meta message

[versed violet]

Ok, I'm pretty sure this will work.
We saturate the middle belt to 60, by looping back half of it.
The bottom merger can now accept max 30 items, because it will mix 1:1 from both belts.
The upper merger is now limited to 30 output, so it can accept the 15 we split below, plus extra 15 from the input line.
Input line is limited to 15 items, so whole throughput is 15 at the end.
This actually looks just like OP original drawing, so yeah, looks you were right, and it seems we can stack the 50% speed limiters by wrapping them around previous stages.

7,5 limiter

[summer flare]

It won't. The math is wrong - the first merger, if the two inputs are each 30, will give 60 not 45.

[versed violet]

Fixed version just below ☝️

[summer flare]

Not sure why you're doing the stuff with the mergers and splitters. A 15 ppm in will give 15 ppm with just a belt, similarly with the second example.

[versed violet]

The blue color signifies the belt is being slowed by merger.
Because the merger cannot accept more items.

[teal tiger]

guys i need your mathematic skills

[wind spade]

take a math class

[teal tiger]

so im using a 240 ingot node

[wind spade]

ingot node? 🤔

[teal tiger]

whats the best approach to get 15 ingots into 1 smelter now

will i rlly have to split the nod 16 times?

[wind spade]

manifold

[teal tiger]

isnt there like a smart splitter that splits exactly 15 ingot

[teal tiger]

note: the rest of the smelters need normally 30 ingots

[versed violet]

no, there is a splitter that give priority to one of the outputs, and lets rest through when that belt backs up.

[teal tiger]

its just this specific smelter that needs 15 ingots

[versed violet]

is it underclocked?

[teal tiger]

yep

[versed violet]

just manifold it, and as long as input matches consumption, it will work

[teal tiger]

im building it in modules

so when the overall consumption is accurate to the input it wont overflow?

[wind spade]

no matter what the values are, belts can be built in pretty much any way

[teal tiger]

take a look at my precious drawing

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[teal tiger]

the 15x will back up tho right?

[wind spade]

yeah things back up in manifolds

[versed violet]

put the 15pm smelter at end of manifold

[wind spade]

but it doesn't matter really

[strong loom]

The clog would just backlog to the start (whatever machine the items originate from)...
You can achieve limiting conveyers to certain number of items so much easier

[versed violet]

Examples welcome.

[strong loom]

Not even sure what you try to achieve, 3/4 examples have the same input as output and are just trivial

[fringe pawn]

I'm still curious about all that, but I didn't spot details on what exactly the OP is doing.

Without knowing that, 🤷

[versed violet]

Limit the throughput of a belt to 15ppm

[strong loom]

Like you want to half an input? going from 30 to 15?

[versed violet]

Limit [unknown amount] to 15ppm

[fringe pawn]

RIght, but I'm unclear on the underlying reasons. THere are lots of ways to get a 15ppm belt, and lots of scenarios that might call for it.

[strong loom]

"unknown but certain" or "any" thats a big difference

[fringe pawn]

I'm the guy who just got a gold cup by using tickets instead of oil extractors. SO I'm all for solving weird problems with weird solutions. But the scenario needs to be clear.

[versed violet]

Unknown, but OP mentioned drones, and I know drone ports will not back up, if you send other items along.

[wind spade]

SF does not have unknown amounts

[versed violet]

Load mixed good into a train and try again.

[strong loom]

Your example just makes the input machine clog up and produce at 50%
So you can literally just underclock it to 50% and save all the mergers and splitters ^.^
If you are willing to build a sink you can just do that

[wind spade]

don't mix goods

[strong loom]

if you want to go from an unknown amount to 15*, make the input a mk1 band and do the picture twice

[versed violet]

sometimes, you have a box.

[summer flare]

Yes, but why are you introducing standing loops like that, when a single belt from the 15 ppm input to the 15 ppm output gives the same results.

[strong loom]

yeah thats what i mean

[versed violet]

Again, inputs are marked with blue because the mk1 belt is clogged. The source tries to supply more, but it can't.

[strong loom]

Why clog the input when you can clog the output or build a sink?

And even if it's necessary to clog input, just limit the machine and put the desired number in
Probably will save* you a frame per second :)

[versed violet]

Not a part of the exercise, but if you must have an example:

I have a train that needs to ship 12 caterium ingots per min to another base.
The wagon ships several other items.
The input belt comes from a box and supplies whole factory, so it is at all times in clogged state.
The train platform will not back up. I don't want it flooded with caterium ingots.
So I have 12/min throughput limiter on there.

[strong loom]

The same wagon ships different materials? Oh boy I'd start a new save file

[teal tiger]

would it be a issue if i transport crude oil like 300m far?

heard transporting fluids is suboptimal

[fringe pawn]

You can transport fluids unlimited horizontal distances via pipe.

[versed violet]

I'm not adding five wagons to ship total of 300p/m

[strong loom]

Just limit the smelter to 80% in the first place

[versed violet]

which one of the 20 that ship by truck?
Again, not the problem we are solving here.

[fringe pawn]

Transporting solids is easier. But not by much. The volume of solid versus volume of liquid comes into play. For instance, bring coal to water, and not the other way around, because water consumption is 3x higher, and you're likely still limited to MK1 pipes.

I'm all for just doing long pipes when it comes to nitrogen, because then you get rid of head lift issues too

[strong loom]

I give up
If you have fun, you are in the right 🙏

[worldly bone]

Gases in this game don't require head pressure?

[wind spade]

*headlift and no

[summer flare]

This appears to be attempting to limit a throughput based on what a belt will carry. The "slowest" belt allows up to 60 ppm so you're not going to be able to limit anything less than that. You could achieve a throughput less than 60 ppm throughput using splitters/mergers but whatever is extra needs to go somewhere outside the assembly being used, like looped back to storage or sink as has been said. It's not going to work being feed back in.

[oblique isle]

Hello angels and demons of math and meta. I come to you with an inquiry regarding pipeline functions.
The tl;dr version of it is this: I have four pipes totaling to 400 fuel each. I need to balance them into 400, 400, 366.67, 433.33, would this "theoretically" do it if the pipes to the left add up to 366.67 and the right add up to 433.33? Would I achieve same thing with valves, and even better, would it be better to limit it with the valves? Any and all thoughts on this topic will be appreciated. Also, breaking up the machines (as in adding more) is not somethin I would like to do.

[frosty owl]

I think an easy solution would be adding overflow junctions (a U bend going upward) to both sides, to make sure the blender gets fed the remaining fluid only after all others are fed. The pumps and extra pipe loop could be removed then

[oblique isle]

Could you help me understand it mroe?

[vapid gorge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/obqjrd/ficsit_pipeline_plumbing_manual_first_edition/ pipe line manual - there are junctions that can help with over flow

[oblique isle]

I have that saved

[vapid gorge]

don't do whatever you're doing in that picture though

[oblique isle]

Well, what do you suggest?

[vapid gorge]

Basic pipe rule - keep it as simple as possible.

[marble sigil]

hey do you guys have any good websites for planning the stuff out before you build it ive tried a couple but not many have been as helpful as i want

[vapid gorge]

so clock machines to make that much down each pipe in the first place is probably your easiest solution

[vapid gorge]

the actual machines? or the numbers needed in resources?

[oblique isle]

No can do, already tight enough on space.

[vapid gorge]

overclock?

[marble sigil]

like flowcharts to make sure you know what youre building ahead of time

and how to clock them

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

best one

[oblique isle]

That might actually work

[vapid gorge]

and user friendly

[vapid gorge]

the other simplest method is alter the consumption machines to use what you have in the pipes in the first place

[vapid gorge]

I can't see your whole set up or how it's built so I can't tell you what would be easier for you

[frosty owl]

The 30/min loopback would back up as 60/min exit that merger to try reaching the next but get backed-up by the 15/min.
You would need to "priority merge" some more the loopbacks (splitting them more before merging, to lower the priority of the original 60/min input)

[frosty owl]

You want one machine to be fed the overflow from 2 sets of machines, right?

[oblique isle]

Yea, this would be the simplest, that way the only "balancing" needed would be water

[fringe pawn]

I don't think you need to balance anything. You can have all the fluid all in one linked network and it should work just fine?

[vapid gorge]

I would recommend against that too tbh though water extractors have a higher tolerance for merging

[marble sigil]

nah but like i want something that will show me that i need to build the things connecting to each other and the only website ive seen that does that automatically doesnt allow constraints (i.e., i dont have a miner mk. 3 availible but it tells me to build one)

[frosty owl]

Maybe yes. I'd add overflow junctions just to be sure

[marble sigil]

idk i think i just suck at doing tech stuff

[vapid gorge]

as in belt and splitter layout?
I really recommend you come up with that on your own. There's only 1 web page I've seen do that and they give you stupid lay outs

[marble sigil]

ok

i will suffer

[fringe pawn]

I've got a coal power plant that has a total of 1440 water flowing within a single network, using only MK1 pipes. But because no single point exceeds the pipe throughput limit, it's fine.

[vapid gorge]

It's also not super hard, just make it down into chunks by your max belt speed.

you moving 1000 pm and have mk5 belts? break it up into 2 groups of nothing else is better for you

[marble sigil]

ok

[fringe pawn]

So if you just inject those four 400 fuel lines at different places in the line, it should just self balance.

[vapid gorge]

the other reason for doing it yourself is you can develop good logisitc layout skills and then create fun weird things

[marble sigil]

cool

[frosty owl]

The miner part is considered trivial as one just has to provide the ore needed, however they want/can

[marble sigil]

wait ive found something i can apply simple math to and figure it out kinda

calculatory

it doesnt let me post links

[vapid gorge]

calculatory?

whats the website called?

[marble sigil]

its calculatory. ovh (theres a space bc i cant post links)

also i might be stupid but im a noob is there actually no way to have a precise split between two outputs of a splitter (like two outputs, 33% of items go out one end, 67% go out the other)

[vapid gorge]

there are ways but they are generally not needed

also Not sure what you're getting from something like this ?

[marble sigil]

aw that sucks

[marble sigil]

idk im really dumb man

[vapid gorge]

ok so first off - your example of 1/3 going one way and 2/3 going another

a splitter evenly splits and it has three out puts so you can have 3x 1/3 paths right?

[marble sigil]

they could possibly add an even further upgraded version of the programmable splitter that allows items/minute output caps

whatever im just gonna suck at this

[fringe pawn]

I think they have said "never" to that sort of splitter.

[vapid gorge]

no no no don't stress.

why do you feel you need to evenly split things like that?

[marble sigil]

: (

[marble sigil]

autism idk

[vapid gorge]

SF is a design and logistics game - a ratio splitter, what you described, would kill 90% of the problem solving

[marble sigil]

true

[vapid gorge]

but it's ok you never need to split things like that. Do you know what a manifold is?

[versed violet]

Already fixed in next message: #math-and-meta message

[frosty owl]

My bad, I thought that was a solution using sushi and filler items, kinda skipped it

[marble sigil]

i was making a mountain out of a molehill this really isnt that bad the only planning software im using is stickey notes so i can remember the required stuff i need for the final assemblers and stuff

[marble sigil]

i learned and am now using one for the factory i made thanks

[hot bison]

what does the tractor use for fuel?

[median heath]

Anything you can fathom burning.

Leaves. Wood. Biomass.
Coal. Coke. Fuel.
Fabric. Paint.
Uranium Fuel Rods.

Etc.

[hot bison]

ok thx

how do i set a path on the tractor

[vapid gorge]

record it and drive

[hot bison]

do i stop the recording or just set on auto pilot and get off

[vapid gorge]

stop recording I believe.
you might find a tutorial on youtube if you're having issues with it

[hot bison]

gort it thank

[median heath]

It stops recording when you cross the start line again.

[hot bison]

yeah found that out lol didnt work the first few times but got it now. thanks!

[opal locust]

question, why are my smart splitters getting random materials in them that aren't being passed forward along the sushi line?

[vapid gorge]

what are the settings?

and splitters have small internal buffers so might just be that

[median heath]

Define "random"

[opal locust]

the plastic and steel beam

[median heath]

In the context of what you're building, how is that random?

[opal locust]

they were materials from things I was previously building

and they're still there, not clogging up the line, just in imaginary space inside the splitter

[median heath]

I personally wouldn't define that as random, given you know exactly where they came from and how they go there.

But this is inherent to how overflow works.

Previously you were making Versatile Framework.

[opal locust]

yes but it has cause me to be a few materials short multiple times because of this

[median heath]

Temporary setups can have this occurrence, yes. That's why I don't necessarily advise doing temporary sushi manifolds.

Their operation is based on infinite continuance.

If you're switching what the line is for, you have to flush it.

But most people don't know to flush it because that's a more advanced sushi thing.

If you want a sushi line that you can continually swap the settings of without needing to flush it, you have to use poggers instead of smarts.

[hot bison]

whats the difference between all the different medical inhalers

[median heath]

Same difference between all the different Reinforced Iron Plates.

[hot bison]

im guessing the recipe

[median heath]

Yes.
As long as you're also understanding that the item itself doesn't care what recipe it came from, it is the same item.

Fuel, Residual Fuel, and Diluted Fuel all produce just Fuel. Exact same item. Regardless of recipe.

[hot bison]

gotcha anyway it can be used inf times likea mod that you know of or something

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @median heath

[median heath]

If you want to talk mods, that is the place ☝️

[hot bison]

ok. what do the bird things do in the dessert

[vapid gorge]

be birds

[hot bison]

so no use

[fringe pawn]

Their job is to block you from building things occasionally. There are solutions to this.

[true junco]

Ingredients. They make the same inhaler. (No indications this might change )

[thorn trail]

There's only one inhaler recipe that's infinite, using nuts.

[wind spade]

all of them are infinite

[thorn trail]

I thought the bacon agaric is not renewable?

[wind spade]

everything except hard drives and artifacts is renewable

[thorn trail]

Woah, mind blown. All this time I thought it’s not renewable.

[wind spade]

lizard doggos can bring pretty much everything that seems non-renewable

[thorn trail]

Ah, you mean renewable through doggos. That’s not reliable enough for me.

[primal flicker]

What if you don't count that?
Mycelia is not renewable, right?

[wind spade]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Resource_renewability

[primal flicker]

Sans doggos, no foliage item is renewable.

[wind spade]

if you don't count world updates

[uncut flicker]

Hi, I have a question about trains. Im setting up a train with 3 wagons, one locomotive on each side. How do I make the train go back? So hes doin A - B but i want him to load and go back B - A.

[deft lichen]

trains can only drive forward

[wind spade]

if you have loco on each side, it should work normally

[deft lichen]

so you either need a front-facing locomotive on both ends or just build loops

[wind spade]

but for stations - train needs to arrive in the direction the station is facing

[uncut flicker]

I do have locomotives on both side

[deft lichen]

make a #1038092680493801533 thread with screenshots of the train and stations

[uncut flicker]

Oh ok! Thanks!

[uncut flicker]

Wait does this locomotive also need a station?

[vapid gorge]

for the arriving station? yes, it'll need a station facing the right way

[north monolith]

The back facing locomotive doesn't

[teal tiger]

what is this good for? 3 inputs to 3 outputs

am i overlooking something?

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/war-rush-hour-gif-27347907

[vapid gorge]

people make useless things sometimes

[teal tiger]

so there is absolutely no point to this?

[vapid gorge]

no idea can't see whats going on

from a blueprint or something?

[teal tiger]

yeah just watched a yt video

didn't describe it further

[median heath]

Don't watch YT videos of other people playing the game.
Just play the game yourself. 👍

[teal tiger]

he showed like 2 inputs to 3 outputs etc. which is understandable but why would i want such a complicate 3 to 3

[median heath]

2 to 3 isn't really understandable either.

[vapid gorge]

who knows, maybe it's a balancer, or a condenser?

[median heath]

It's a balancer.

[teal tiger]

yeah thats why im asking u guys lol idk anything about balancers etc

[vapid gorge]

I don't use them.

[teal tiger]

thought u could expand my knowledge about balancers

[vapid gorge]

I jsut put the number of items on the belt that I want or use the number that is on the belt

[median heath]

!wikisearch Balancer

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Balancer

[primal flicker]

I consider those generally useless, apart from radiation control.

[teal tiger]

so its just to start up the machine faster?

[vapid gorge]

not really, you can skip the spin up time of manifolds by pre feeding

and it takes longer to build and more space so 'sooner' is not guaranteed

[teal tiger]

well that sounds pretty useless

[vapid gorge]

it's mainly aesthetic

[teal tiger]

i see, thanks

[vapid gorge]

or for the challenge of it

[median heath]

See my initial gif reply.

[idle stirrup]

Note, it's a very satisfying aesthetic. However from a difficulty/progression standpoint, its a complexity you don't have to opt into until you build nuclear (and even then, its a soft opt-in)

[summer flare]

Your original post picture is of a "belt balancer" as discussed in the wiki. It splits a number of inputs, which may be non equal rates, and merges to a number of equal rate outputs. I think it's an arrangement used in Factorio and brought in.
As opposed to a "load balancer", which tends to be an assembly of splitters and mergers that deliver the exact input rates required by buildings, rather than the overflow method which has building inputs delivers by a line of splitters and an input being the overflow from the previous splitter.
There's some math involved in load balancing, so some players see it as a challenge, whereas for some it's the norm.

[vocal merlin]

Watching tutorials is okay if you need help or inspiration.

[wind spade]

if you need inspiration, sure.
if you need help, copying someone else's build without understanding is like worst you can do

[primal flicker]

IDK... Depends on attitude. I've copied stuff for Minecraft redstone and used that to learn how it works.

[wind spade]

that's a bit different, you don't need that knowledge to beat the game

in SF you learn in every stage and then apply what you learned in next stage

[vapid gorge]

subjective

[bright vale]

Manifolds are pretty meh. Your first machine will endlessly be full. The last on the line will almost always be short on material. Balancers create perfect efficiency.

The hting about this game is it is as simple or as complicated as you want. Balancers offr another layer and challenge to things. You don't have to math this game at all. Add a belt and when it is done, its done.

Not everyone finds that fun.

[wind spade]

that's just not true

once manifold fills, it works the same as a balancer

and you can prefill it to get rid of the spin up time

[vapid gorge]

'first machine full, last machine very low on materials' sounds like a system working at 100%

[fringe pawn]

I'm less familiar with setting and hooking up balancers now that blueprints are a thing, but before blueprints, I always found large balancers more time consuming than just prefilling machines.

I frequently balance small machine count scenarios, though.

[wind spade]

direct input is probably even easier

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, direct input is great with blueprints.

[candid oar]

Edit: Nvm, fixed it. Had a bad output from one of the final pieces going onto a mk1 instead of mk2, thought I'd fixed it, but I needed to flush the pipes to force a reset

I have 2x Petroleum Coke refineries using 40 Heavy Oil Residue per minute, for 80 total. I have another 6 refineries that are outputting a total of 80 Heavy Oil Residue. The additional conveyers are all working at 100%, and yet i'm finding that the 6x refineries outputting heavy oil (plus rubber/plastic) are often working at 50% or less efficiency, as it seems like the pipes get backed up.

Am I missing something?

[vapid gorge]

do you have a plan you're working to? like from satisfactorytools? it'd be a lot easier to follow

[lament jolt]

So I'm finally trying my building skills at making a Nuclear Power Plant. My configuration will be 4 floors of 27, each overclocked to 250%. Water will be brought in by packages, to the tune of at least 65k per minute. I haven't found a solid number on how much waste is made nor how many fuel rods will be needed to keep the plant running. I do plan on having all the waste sunk after being turned into plutonium rods.

What is the best way to make a multi train car relay system? I'm not looking at making a push pull like I have in the past with fuel plants. One train wagon for each floor, every ?? minutes.

[vapid gorge]

Before you go all in like that consider making a plan in satisfactorytools.com

[median heath]

You also can find the exact numbers for fuel rod consumption and waste production.

So you aren't guessing.

[vapid gorge]

Also - if you build on top of water it’s easier

[median heath]

Also also - if shipping the water in, Fluid Trains will be better.