math-and-meta

[median heath]

Fluid Trains underrated massively imo.

[fierce ruin]

i don't use trains i use fluid pipes and expensive as hell mk11 conveyers

[ember fractal]

I use lots of fluid trains

#screenshots message
@median heath

[median heath]

The only thing that bothers me about that is the buffers aren't helping 😭

If I had to guess, your goal for transport is 600/min per platform?

[ember fractal]

nah, those are actually 480/m

if I fully prime the system, then yeh I guess the buffers aren't needed

[median heath]

If you change the configuration they can be needed/used to ensure 600/min per platform.

[ember fractal]

yes

[median heath]

Just confirming so I don't over-explain, you already know about this, yes?

[sand epoch]

Sev uses buffers.. o0

[wind spade]

Well that's the only place where buffers are useful

[median heath]

Trains are the sole current use-case for buffers of either kind, yes.

(Aside from aesthetics, of course)

[wind spade]

(and storage for solids)

[median heath]

I would not call those buffers though?

Those are just storage containers.

[wind spade]

was just talking about the buildings in general 🤷‍♂️

tho so many people call them buffers even though they are called containers 😄

[median heath]

In the same way that we call it a "bus" while it is made of belts, I referred to the mechanic involving train throughput as "buffer" while it is made of containers/fluid buffers (second one having the same word is coincidence).

[topaz jetty]

How much water per minute does a coal gen burning coke need?

[teal grotto]

45 i think

[median heath]

Coal Gens take 45/min water regardless of fuel type.

Use Tools.

[topaz jetty]

Nvm figured it out

i forgot that i was underclocking one

[topaz jetty]

Tool doesnt have a power calc like Scim i dont think

Im already using it for production

[median heath]

@wind spade fairly certain you added this, no?

[wind spade]

this = ?

power production calculator?

[topaz jetty]

The power planner on SCIM

[wind spade]

I did not make SCIM

[topaz jetty]

*like it he means

[median heath]

Yes. Did you not add a power calc to Tools?

[wind spade]

is in beta, but won't be coming to old tools. Will be part of new Tools tho

[median heath]

Or was that just something about setting the solver to care about power efficiency?

[wind spade]

yeah beta can also solve for power efficiency

[median heath]

Well, everyone makes mistakes. 😉

[wind spade]

do you mean those who solve for power efficiency?

[median heath]

I meant you adding it to validate them. 😉

[wind spade]

I'm just making a tool, whether or not it's used right is not up to me 🤷‍♂️

[topaz jetty]

Now the question how do i turn a 240 belt and a 150 belt in to a 200 belt and 190 belt

[wind spade]

better question is why not use 240 and 150 separately

[deft lichen]

what are you trying to do?

[topaz jetty]

Im burning 390 coke/ min to get rid of heavy oil residue

[deft lichen]

either adjust the clock speed of the refineries producing coke, use an injection manifold or different-sized target groups

[wind spade]

just match ratios tbh

you have 240, put that into machines needing 240

[median heath]

240 belt to Smart Splitter.
Priority output to a mk1 belt, Overflow stays.

From that mk1, use a normal splitter, all 3 outputs.
Merge 2 of them onto the 150 belt.
Merge 3rd back to the to 240 belt (now 200).

[topaz jetty]

Thanks

[fierce cypress]

or just this if you don't want to overflow @topaz jetty

[topaz jetty]

Thanks

[topaz jetty]

Is there a problem if i produce extra water than i need for my coal gens?

[oblique hollow]

no

[jolly ingot]

Not really, the extractors will just turn on and off when the pipe system is full.
Production-wise you are good but you loose in in efficiency

[oblique hollow]

The water extractor will just stop for a while but that doesnt matter much

[jolly ingot]

Why would you produce more tho?

[topaz jetty]

I need a bit less than the full capacity because underclocking

[viscid swallow]

I have 24 of my over clock

Out of 48

[topaz jetty]

I wanted to build my truck stop here...

[deft lichen]

just use inhalers

[river night]

at least you can theoretically clean that up, its just going to be very painful

[delicate pivot]

place a storage beside it, belt it to another storage far away. have berry/nuts/inhaler on hand and you're golden. I just did this a few days ago to get rid of a node near my base. good luck, dont die

[oblique hollow]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Picking_an_alternate_recipe
@lyric cipher

[wind spade]

@lyric cipher here's how you choose alt recipes - #math-and-meta message

[chilly fern]

There's no real reason to avoid dieing is there? Why not just move your respawn closer, drop all your gear -> mine some -> storage with belt taking it away -> die -> repeat

[lyric cipher]

Thanks for this, I did know how to choose them, had a few to research but for such a god roll from one hard drive i left it up to here to choose, got them all in like 4/5 hard drives anyway!

[topaz jetty]

🤣

Definitely not true

Wait what? i can only generate 5970 MW of power so where is that capacity number from?

nvm it was counting the hub biomass burners

[rustic snow]

So I got a question about the whole power grid stuff.
If the black line goes over the grey line that’s bad. And the orange line is how much power I’m using. And the blue line is the max power I could be using. Does that mean if the orange line goes over the blue line that’s also bad?

[median heath]

There's a black line?

[rustic snow]

Like the production one

[mystic moon]

Only if you have biogens

It's more of a dark grey though

[oblique hollow]

the dark gray line cant go above light gray

[rustic snow]

Ok. So do the other 2 not matter?

[oblique hollow]

orange is consumption

if that one touches / goes above gray, you get a tripped fuse

usually its the "going above"

as orange and gray can be exactly the same

if you plan it well

[rustic snow]

Ok

[oblique hollow]

and blue is just "heres how high orange can climb currently"

[rustic snow]

Ok

Thanks

[knotty ginkgo]

Im doing some math for the turbo fuel and I got as a result that with using the default turbofuel you get 12.62 MW for each sulfur you use
instead of burning the fuel and coal in generators.
I did the same for Turbo heavy fuel which uses HOR which would have been highly valuable with the "diluted fuel" recipe and it ends up
with just 1.75 MW for each sulfur used instead of burning the fuel and coal in generators.

Does this sound right? A 10x improvement with using close to the same ingredients looks off.

[median heath]

No.
Turbo Heavy is not an improvement.

[oblique hollow]

If you use diluted fuel you get 2 fuel per 1 HOR

which, with normal Turbofuel, gets you 1.666 Turbo per 1 HOR

Turbo Heavy gets you 0.8 Turbo per 1 HOR

not to mention the compacted coal cost per unit of turbofuel

[knotty ginkgo]

Turbo heavy fuel sounds like a wasted recipe

[oblique hollow]

youre not the first to argue that

[wind spade]

there's many recipes that people find pointless. Every recipe has a usecase, but your playstyle may not need that usecase 🤷‍♂️

[old bramble]

Happy pi-day

[median heath]

Cake >

[versed violet]

Pizza!
Incidentally we had some at work today because of team meeting. A good way to celebrate.

Did you know:
Pi*z*z*a is a formula for volume of cylinder with radius z and height a.

[primal flicker]

Pi•r²
But
Pie are round

[versed violet]

I personally prefer tau instead of Pi for the circle constant.
(Is this a good day to bring flamewar healthy discussion about them?)

[primal flicker]

I prefer Tau for fighting Dark Eldar.

[versed violet]

Brothers in math, I bequest your help.
I have a 90 degree turn in my power line. Unfortunatelly, the wire clips into side of my power tower (using 3 stacked towers).
I want to replace the single tower with two towers side by side to reduce the angle.
Is 30 degree the correct value for two tower arrangeent? And how do I build two squares that touch by corner and are 30 degree apart?

[median heath]

Not sure about the 30 part, but I know these 2 need to be 120's

[versed violet]

wait, that would mean the top corner is 60 and I'm trying to build an equilateral tiangle

[median heath]

Oh, not 120s.
135s.

I am dumb 😦

[versed violet]

Hi Dumb, I am Confused

[median heath]

There's a mod for that.

[versed violet]

I'm pretty sure 60 deg angle is doable in vanilla game, the foundations have 9 rotation stops

[median heath]

135/9 = 15

[versed violet]

I'd love to build proto corner for 60 deg so I can reuse it later

[wind spade]

the 30 depends on how far the point is 🤔 unless there's some extra info

[versed violet]

Well, I need to reduce the angle the wire leaves the tower. currently it is 45 degree from normal and that clips. By adding second tower, I can reduce the angle to I think 30 degree from normal?

Need help building two towers at correct angle for that turn

[wind spade]

this is what I mean

[median heath]

@versed violet if you use Greeny's latest, instead of trying to make a 135, you can just make the 90 and do x2 45's at the corners.
Same effect.

[versed violet]

Notice that angle is extension of the two tower arms eg where they cross in distance

I think I need a bigger model or something. edge towers are assumed far away, trying to turn corner without clippings.
Unless there is a way to add supports to high voltage cables to move them away from tower so they don't clip?

better model, 30 deg seems to not clip
But me wants the edges of 2x2 squares the towers stand on touching in one corner

So my question comes down - how do I make two foudations with 60 deg angle between them while touching corners? some walkway magic?

So, uh, dumb me just realized walkways can indeed be used for rotating chained foundations. especially now that we have nudge to offset them with edge

[median heath]

Aye. Walkways and Beams are very powerful.

[versed violet]

angle between two marked is def not 60 deg, but I think its correct one? Two edge towers 90 deg turn apart, and two middle towers with equal gradual rotation to get curve.

[primal flicker]

30° offset increments

[versed violet]

these are not that easy to make. 30 deg, 45 deg, 60 deg set

[brisk zealot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At3DpeCACvY

this vid is pretty good

[versed violet]

oh dear gods of maths

[brisk zealot]

its just a bit of pythagoras nothing too fancy

[primal flicker]

What's the TLDR for bypassing the 5° smallest rotational increment?

[brisk zealot]

you make beams and use the pythagorean theorem to get the angles you want

[versed violet]

beams 😂

[primal flicker]

I hate beams.

[brisk zealot]

or the spreadsheet provided

[primal flicker]

Unless I'm using them to make a power pole taller than usual. That's honestly their main use for me.

[versed violet]

did he provide whole-numbers triangles for all?

[brisk zealot]

for a lot of them

you need 3 and 4 for 60 and 30

i can make a screenshot if you want

[vapid gorge]

Do the foundations not turn on their corner?

[versed violet]

no, they do not. you can do 45 deg from side, or any standard increment when placing one on top. only walkways have the 'rotate on middle of edge' quirk

[brisk zealot]

you can do multiples of 15 degrees with road barriers as well

like this

[vapid gorge]

boo, I was hoping another object turned on it's corner now that walkways don't

[primal flicker]

1 - Center on corner and rotate.
2 - Center on corner and place.

[median heath]

Center on corner action

[vapid gorge]

I'll just keep using Perfect Circles now, simpler and faster. Just sad that vanilla circles have gotten far far more convoluted

[rustic snow]

I got a problem. so I got 1800 iron a minute, and I need to get it to 1560, and move the rest some where else, what would the spliter/merger layout look like? beacuse Im prittey sure I need to split it 86%

[median heath]

Do you need 1800 or do you need only 1560?

[rustic snow]

I only need 1560, but I want the rest to go to a different belt

[median heath]

Is the rest assigned to do anything where it is going?

Because the simplest fix for this is "Don't make 1800, make only 1560, no splitting required."

[rustic snow]

To different smelters. The 1560 is making iron rods, and the other is going to be attached to a different belt for iron plates

[median heath]

1800 is divided how? (given it cannot be on a single belt)

How many input belts?
What mk of belt?
How much on each belt?

[rustic snow]

would this help?

[median heath]

So do you have 1800 or do you have 3k?

Because 100 Smelters is 3k/min

And if you need specifically 1560 of that, just merge 52 of the Smelters and send the other 48 elsewhere.

[rustic snow]

ok

[median heath]

Better yet, don't even merge.

52 Smelters is supplying the 104 Constructors.
So just 1:2 those.
Each line splits 1 time to feed the exact 2 Contructors it supplies.

On the Plate side, don't merge either.
Because 48 Smelters are feeding 48 Constructors.
So that's just 1:1 belting.

[rustic snow]

ok

thanks

[median heath]

Always break the issue down into the simplest parts possible. 👍

[rustic snow]

ok thank you!

[magic island]

I would also say that operating at this scale, default rods -> default screws is not an ideal choice

any of the rod & screw alts will make the build simpler and/or more resource-efficient

[queen slate]

As well as alts of later products. Say, cut screws completely.

[wind spade]

no reason to cut screws

[primal flicker]

Other than subjectively fun

Like cutting iron ingots

[wind spade]

we're in #math-and-meta , there's no fun here

[topaz jetty]

I need 34 constructors for my HFM setup!

for 2/min!!

I fear the balancing

Wait a minute... did all my output just be perfect for balancing?! i think i got lucky unless tools is meant to do that

[primal flicker]

What balancing?

[topaz jetty]

The belt balancing

[primal flicker]

Why would you do that, if manifolds exist?

[topaz jetty]

which apparently ended up being very easy since the outputs matched up perfectly

[topaz jetty]

I am feeding the belts into a manifold but the input must be the amount it needs

and i know smart splitters exist but i am not using them

plus that type of thing will take a lot more time to get efficient and i cant have a system with less than the amount it needs

[primal flicker]

The only time I would agree that inputs MUST be at precise (averaged) rates is when those inputs are radioactive.

[topaz jetty]

Well i play my way now i need to get building 34 constructors

[primal flicker]

We all do.
Honestly that's the beauty of any sandbox game.

[wind spade]

then make them?
if something needs 35/min, give it 35/min. No balancing needed

[vapid gorge]

ok as long as you know you're putting yourself through needless hell and all your pain is your own fault and don't complain about it to us

[cloud valley]

Anyone here good with probability?

[oblique hollow]

just ask and the probability nerds will materialize in here...
.... probably

[cloud valley]

ha

I'm having a brainfart... It seems rather simple but I can't find something online that validates it

If I have 3, 6 sided dice, whats the probability per roll, that at least 1 of the dice is a 4?

[median heath]

What does that have to do with Satis?

[cloud valley]

Nothing

[median heath]

So......?

[cloud valley]

My brain says (1/6)*3 = 50%

[magic island]

using that logic, rolling six dice would give a 100% chance, which is false. the odds never reach 100% no matter how many dice you add

[cloud valley]

True

[median heath]

It's 50% though.
Because "If I do <action>, what is the chance at <outcome>?" - 50/50. It either will happen, or it will not.

[oblique hollow]

very funny

[median heath]

Very accurate too. 🙂

[oblique hollow]

rolling a dice either gives all numbers or none then, got it

[cloud valley]

I built a spreadsheet which shows all 6^3 outcomes and counted the amount of 4's vs rolls of non 4's and it was 50%

[median heath]

No, you have 100% chance of getting a number.
50% of getting any specific number.

[magic island]

p sure the real answer is to look at it in terms of the odds of failure
with 1 die, there is a 5/6 chance you don't get a 4
with 2 dice, it's (5/6)^2 that neither has a 4
and so on

[cloud valley]

I think I realize my mistake

[oblique hollow]

rolling 4s is the same as sixes

any number really

[cloud valley]

~42.13%

[oblique hollow]

chance of NOT rolling what you want:
5/6

for three dice it is then (5/6)^3
1 - whatever that is is the chance of getting your number at least once then

[cloud valley]

It's not number of 4's, its number of rolls that contain at least 1 4, which drops from 108 to 91. 91/216 = ~ 42.13%

Glad we worked this out lol

[oblique hollow]

i did say "its the same for any number you pick"

[cloud valley]

It is, I just used 4 as an example

[magic island]

to find the probability of succeeding at least once, you find the probability of failing every time and invert that

[stuck nacelle]

is 3:2 or 2:4 in plates:rods constructors better in early game?(120 ingots/min as input)

[median heath]

You are the sole person who can make this decision.

"Better" is entirely subjective to what you want to do with your world.

[stuck nacelle]

Sure, I just don't want to run into a bottleneck of rods/plates later. The question is more that I don't know which one of these you need more before Space Elevator Tier 2

[median heath]

Also, the majority recommendation you will get from experienced players is to stop solving forwards.
i.e. Do not think "I have 120 iron, what can I do?"

It is better to solve backwards.
i.e. "I want to make X amount of an item, and in order to do that I need Y amount of iron."

[median heath]

which one of these you need more

You are again the sole person who can answer this question.
It is your world. You are the one who dictates how much of every item you need.

[stuck nacelle]

Oh, maybe I'll do it. Thanks for the advice!

[median heath]

(There is far, far more than 120 iron on the map. So if what you specifically want to make solves to require more than 120 iron, that does not mean you need to change your goal, that just means you need to find additional iron nodes to achieve your goal.)

[next pewter]

Esp w iron. Can always get more and expand later. (Better miner, better belts, overclocking,..)

[wind spade]

Make what you need now, don't limit yourself by "one node"

[vapid gorge]

almost everything early game will probably be redesigned or rebuilt to handle more throughput - dont' stress

[topaz jetty]

HMFs automated

Now to wait 100 minutes for them to pile up...

[wind spade]

instead of waiting, go do something else 😛

e.g. increase HMF production if they are too slow 😛

[topaz jetty]

Oh wait i calculated the wrong number.. it is 25 min

[oblique hollow]

go automate other stuff in those 25 minutes

[undone hull]

i need to automate time

😄

[wind spade]

build a clock

[topaz jetty]

anyway my next milestone is fuel power, for which i needed these HMFs

and computers which i automated two days ago

[heady vine]

What is the optimal, mathematically backed, ratio of power rpoductuon increase (having you start with 1 integrtaed bio gen)

[wind spade]

wdym by that? 🤔

[next pewter]

Follow either the integer series, or fibbonacchi: (1..2..3..etc, or 1..2..3...5..8..13).
j/k

Serious: It all depends on your goals, but typically, i do 1..8 biogens, then 8..16 coalgens

[vapid gorge]

get out of bio burners, build coal power - have enough for your needs and some to grow

[next pewter]

Then either up to 32 or go for fast small oil power (6..8 fuelgens or so)

But can double down on any method or skip steps too.

[fresh pelican]

huh?

[tropic hawk]

that is a hard question because you then have to note that not everyone's power usage progresses at the same pace. for example, i don't make anything permanent production-wise until i get fuel power unlocked, then i start building things to last me because i have a sense of what I need in a run

[north ocean]

Are you asking how much power you should produce to get to a certain milestone or phase goal? It's just a confusing phrasing I think

[topaz jetty]

I thought i had enough power...(see max cons.)

welp i just found out why i didnt want to use trucks... a truck got stuck for some reason and backed up literally everything and stopped my entire computer factory

[heady vine]

well, as you unlock milestones you increase paste of progressing - you can build more powerfull factories faster (especially with BP and alt recipes) because you you unlock better power sources, you have better means of travel, you can produce more building materials etc
so, question is - what is the best way to add additional power? aka size of increment steps.
you know, like in economy you want certain percent of growth? or when organazing factories you as ceo don't always plan about every single hire because you grow from finding friends to hiring HR to hiring department leaders etc.
aka, once you have just bio every one of them is investment since you need to manage them.
once you hit coal you wont think "oh, i will need just one more and be good", you already start to plan in 3-10 numbers.
when you get fuel you plan probably in dozens.
and with nuclear you get bigger increase in added power.
and in all these cases the factory to feed generators is much bigger than previous one - needs more time (and resources) and logistics.
so question is - what is the golden rule of increasing your power, since every next factory you build is probably bigger than last one, and needs more power, and you might want to have some room in power so that you don't just add "one more nuclear reactor" each time you plan a new factory etc

[amber umbra]

@heady vine The concept you’re asking about is common in real time strategy games or IRL things. The issue is that Satisfactory gameplay doesn’t have time pressure as a mechanic. So it will be impossible to answer without you personally defining what you’re optimizing for. The question is too unconstrained otherwise.

A basic concept is alternating adding power and new production. And always swapping to the highest tech power type as you tech up.

[topaz jetty]

Looking into my options for fuel power, and holy hell is diluted fuel powerful

10GW from one oil node!

well im gonna use diluted packaged fuel for now, and im gonna build a 20GW plant when i get the blender

[north ocean]

I guess for me my general rule of thumb is I'll use a whole fuel resource node to build my first power plants be it coal or fuel, with coal you are usually expanding your belt and extractor speeds as you go so my coal plant expands as those improve until I've maxed out the node or set of nodes I've set aside for power and by the time that happens I'll probably already have fuel unlocked.

With fuel there are so many fuel types and so many ways to make fuel or use byproducts to make fuel I often find myself adding to my fuel power plant as a way of using up leftover byproducts from the plastic or rubber I'm making. That is up until phase 4 hits then I find an oil well and dedicate that to one massive fuel plant of some fuel type or another depending on what I feel like making. That's the last mega grid I need usually and if I'm making any more power after that it's just for funsies.

I don't know what hard number of MW that ends up being but the last time I earned a golden coffee cup I doubt I had more than 50k MW and a lot of that was extra nuclear power I definitely didn't need. You could probably do it with closer to 30k MW. Not sure if someone else in the chat space knows a more specific 'minimum' power number than that

[topaz jetty]

I went a bit overboard and now im building 67 fuel gens... i guess ill enjoy the power once its done

Is 38GW excessive for T7/8 and nuclear?

[north ocean]

I think if there is any take away from the discussion of power its that you can and should build however much you feel like whenever you feel like and to have fun doing it since that's all there really is to do in the game. You don't need all that much to get to the end goals but go nuts and build as much as you want, with "just because you can" being as good a reason as any.

[north monolith]

Is it better to go normal fuel + coal than turbofuel?

[wind spade]

better how?

[north monolith]

In your heart

[oblique hollow]

It is spiritually better to just go with fuel

as turbofuel ruins your chi

[frosty owl]

You're guaranteed to get more power with higher tier fuels, even accounting for extra production needed

[north monolith]

That's the reasoning I was looking for, thank you

Staying pure is important for me

Pure coal, pure fuel, sulfur stays for higher purposes

[frosty owl]

Pure Iron, Pure Copper...

[median heath]

Pure Plutonium.

[knotty ginkgo]

Does anyone know if its better to skip on plutonium gens completely to save on bauxite?
For a theoretical 100% resource used world where its ok to store the waste

[rose lichen]

Suppose it depends on how much power you need. It’s always good to have a lot of power rather than having to continually add on fuel or nuclear gens, but there’s no point producing 600,000mw, but only consuming 200,000mw.

[wind spade]

just uranium gives you ~600 GW, which is usually enough to power anything you have

but using whole map (reasonably) is feat that hasn't been achieved yet

[heady vine]

suppose there's a constant time to build every single generator, with obiously higher nubmer for more complex ones.
there's still palce for math, since the way you need to scale your factory in phase 4 is incomparable to phase 2, simply in terms of power consuption of individual buildings and production chains

you simply cannot achieve anything of value by adding single nuclear reactor when you have 10 of them already
as you cannot jump from 10 fuel generators to 1 nuclear reactor - you simply wont have enuogh power to begin its production chain

so there must be some predictable limits to this

[tulip egret]

Trains are making me confused

for every actual electric locomotive do i need a train station?

same with freights

[median heath]

No.

[median heath]

Only for the ones you want loaded/unloaded.
If you have a train with multiple stops, use Empty Platforms for the cars you don't want interacting on certain stops.

[tulip egret]

Okay cool. Just making my central storage so im having a big train basically going to go around to my factories and pick up my items.

[unkempt hamlet]

imo many small trains is cooler.. but i guess im one of the few who can handle the signal stuff..

[tulip egret]

yeah... Ill eventually move into small trains and mess with signals but for now big train

[opal locust]

I know coal generators to water extractors is normally an 8:3 ratio, how much do you underclock the water extractors if you want a 2:1 ratio again?

[unkempt hamlet]

you can also type in the amount you want extracted

at least in fabrication stuff

[opal locust]

water extractors are 120/min, coal generator needs 45/min, 2*45=90, so 75%?

[median heath]

If you're purely going for coolness, go for coolness.

If you care about throughput potential, more trains is worse.

[unkempt hamlet]

75% exact. just checked by typing in 90 at the [120] below the 100%

[median heath]

Could also bring in 2 shards, overclock 2 Extractors to 150% and get the 2:8 ratio (my preferred method)

[opal locust]

I'll consider that when I get around to an oil facility

[unkempt hamlet]

technically theorhetical throughput is more a matter of getting the average timing right rahter than the amount of trains..

[tulip egret]

Once a freight car has been loaded at one train station can it be loaded onto again at another or does it need to be unloaded before that?

[unkempt hamlet]

if there is still space it can be loaded again

[median heath]

Technically literal, in-game throughput is something that can be solved exactly.

And your potential reduces by adding more trains.

[tulip egret]

So if theres still space in the already loaded freight car it can be loaded with more at a different spot

okay cool

[median heath]

Nothing about the equations I wrote solve for "theoretical."
They are exacting and precise.

[median heath]

The inverse is also true.
If there is limited space in the Platform, the car will only partially unload.

[tulip egret]

Noted.

[median heath]

Application: You can "manifold" train stations the same way you manifold anything else.

[unkempt hamlet]

doesnt this reduce throughput? 😛

[median heath]

No.

[magic island]

it just makes for a long spin-up time, as the parts won't overflow to later stations until all the storage at the first platform backs up

[unkempt hamlet]

just for clarity: you mean using the outputs of one freight terminal to pass stuff to the next one right?

[median heath]

No.

[magic island]

a train manifold would be like, a train that picks up a part at one stop and delivers it to 2+ stops

once the storage at the first dropoff station backs up, later stops will start receiving shipments

[median heath]

I mean sending everything in 1 train, being more than station A needs.
Once station A is full, the exact same train will carry the excess to station B, and so on.

The same way you send everything to Splitter A, until the first Constructor is full, at which point the belt takes everything to Splitter B.

[unkempt hamlet]

ah, ok..

[tulip egret]

I hate to keep asking questions about trains but

If i only need 1 freight loaded do i only need 1 train station and a 1 freight station

[median heath]

Yes.

Also I will answer Satis logistics questions all day, no worries.

[tulip egret]

Well its a 2 train setup so 1 train station 1 empty platform and 1 freight station

Cool okay that makes sensr.

[unkempt hamlet]

also dont forget a loopback track on both ends. or make the trains double headed.

[tulip egret]

Im trying to decide if i want loopback or double headed. I think a loopback would be cooler looking anyways

[unkempt hamlet]

in the latter case no need to add a station segment for the locomotive on the back. just leave enough track so it wont interfere with other train blocks.

i do all my automated trains one direction only. makes them shorter. but my personal train is double headed ( 1 2 1 ) since you can only control track switches in front of your train

[opal locust]

which is the better awesome point sink early on, Silica or Quartz Crystal?

I did some math and Silica came out ahead

[primal flicker]

Depends on recipes. Both are pretty good and I wouldn't bother minmaxing it.

[median heath]

If a third option is allowed:

AILs are the best thing to sink from T1-2 all the way into late T5-6.

@tulip egret you still here?

[tulip egret]

Yes sir.

[median heath]

Updating train throughput page on wiki.
Well.. overhauling is a better word.

Given your experience with trains, do you find this note I am planning to add helpful:

Note: You can solve for the literal, in-game throughput using this formula if you take precise timing measurements.

However, for ease of use, it is recommended to roughly time the route and solve for maximum theoretical. Once you know the maximum in theory, you can just compare that to how much you were planning to move. If you're under max theoretical, you're good.

[tulip egret]

Yeah i do find that helpful. Would be a good addition.

[median heath]

👍

I'm almost done with the page then will commit.

[tulip egret]

Sounds good!

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch points

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=points

[primal flicker]

The list is on the awesome sink page

!wikisearch awesome+sink

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=awesome+sink

[primal flicker]

But the individual silica and crystal pages would be more useful, for comparing the points per raw quartz input.

[topaz jetty]

I sink both

Okay i have this system, how do i start it?

[primal flicker]

Load empty canisters.
Turn on power.

[topaz jetty]

Yeah but how many canisters? 800?

[sand epoch]

I would do about 1k. With a storage container as a buffer to prevent backups

[primal flicker]

50 per triplet of machines.
One packager feeding one refinery feeding one packager, loop. Times 14.

[topaz jetty]

One unpowered machine managed to cripple my HMF production... how??

is it that manifolds dont work if they have less input then they need?

[median heath]

They work less if you give them less.

[primal flicker]

Which machine tho?

[topaz jetty]

yeah but two to three of my machines were idle because i had 15 less iron rods

and that cascaded to my manufacturer having 55% uptime

[primal flicker]

Math is funny like that sometimes.

Compounded error carried forward.

[topaz jetty]

welp thankfully its fixed now since i need 670 HMFs for my power plant

[topaz jetty]

Okay i have 800 fuel/min which is a 600 line and a 200 line, how do i setup and pipe the fuel gens?

[vapid gorge]

do a couple 400 lines, pre fill, loop. Like any other pipe system

[topaz jetty]

Ps I can overclock as much as I wish

Since 67 fuel gens is a lot

[topaz jetty]

If I’m doing my math right, a fuel gen at 166.6667% clock should take 20 fuel/min right?

[junior aurora]

Why not make the math easier, and go by clusters of 5 or 25gens? (60 or 300 fuel/min), then over/under the last gen in the non-conforming cluster

But to directly answer your question, yes 20/12 is 1.666667

[north ocean]

Every time I do math in this game and get a repeating decimal out of it I am compelled to utter "repeating of course" because of that one scene in Wayne's World then I laugh every time and it hasn't gotten old yet even though it probably should have

[median heath]

Or, knowing that repeating decimals do not exist in this game, you do the math so you never get them. 😉

[wind spade]

well, technically they can exist

since it's average over some time period

[topaz jetty]

I don’t plan on constructing the 67 gens required so I’m using a set of 20 for my one 600 line and 10 gens at the above clock speed to use the leftover 200 line

*the 20 gens are at 250%

[wind spade]

@humble ingot see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices (and don't post that in channels where we can't talk 🙂 )

[humble ingot]

Oooh

Okay, which one would be the best for early tier 3

Are any of them actually useful

[wind spade]

read the linked post first

it answers the question 🙂

[humble ingot]

Did not realise it was linked to a message, my bad

[true junco]

Imo they are all very useful. Tho both stitched plate and copper rotors work best if you have access to certain other alts for the input components. Wet concrete works right out of the box. Some folks dont care for wet concrete tho.

[unkempt hamlet]

it wont hurt picking any recipe if you cannt use any of them currently (since this improves the chances of the other possibly more useful recipes the next time), but you can back out of the menu and attempt a new scan if you want. though this is again 10 minutes scan time..

[wind spade]

that's waste of time, in those 10 minutes you can find another drive or two

(and also it's most likely a bug that's gonna get fixed)

[true junco]

Yeah. Usually when i am at the point where i am trying to get alts, i am actively collecting drives and i usually collect drives about as fast as they scan. Usually faster, but getting side tracked is a thing, lol. So i usually have a drive or 2 in the inventory when a scan finishes. Ill pick whatever will be most useful soonest and continue. And if i am looking for a specific alt ill sometimes just hang onto extra drives once i get the one i wanted at that time. Unless i have lots of drives, then ill use a bunch and just keep a few for a bit. Just because i may not have decided what ill need next

[topaz jetty]

well 16GW of capacity is good, but 16GWh of batteries is better

[wind spade]

I'd rather have 16 GW than 16 GWh

[topaz jetty]

correction 22GWh

i have both

[wind spade]

I'd rather have more power than I use over power storage (which I assume is what you mean by "batteries")

[topaz jetty]

yup

[heady vine]

Solid argument, but with bps you can expand power so easily...

[wind spade]

yeah, so expand power, not power storage

[heady vine]

It's almost tempting to have a big one

Not for compensation purposes...

Lmao i meant storage but whatever

(i dont see how bps help with power expansion tbh)

[wind spade]

well same argument can be applied to power. If you have blueprints, it's easy to just plop down a few and expand it

but my point is that power storage doesn't actually increase your power capacity, and if I'm spending time on something power related, I'd rather build actual power capacity than a limited-time power storage

[heady vine]

Give at least one exmaple were bps help with power expansion in a menaingful way (due to sizes of building s usually involved)

[wind spade]

DPF loop is a nice blueprint, you just stack a few and have a tons of diluted fuel

[heady vine]

Well, i see expanding power storage just as flex for the time when you have BPD and decent capacity for rpoducing frames, wires and stators

[heady vine]

Sold

[wind spade]

sure, if you have some self-imposed reason for why to build power storage, go for it
but for practical purposes it's always better to put time into proper power production rather than power storage

[unkempt hamlet]

well, i think its good to have some power storage to cover peaks.. still no need to invest much time in it..

[wind spade]

your production should be above your max consumption anyway

and "peaks" don't really happen much if you always sink when storage is full

[kindred mirage]

So i kinda have a spaghetti computer factory and i need to split 30 plastic/minute to 13.5/min and 16.5/min. I tried asking ChatGPT (which usually works) but it gave me nothing useful. How can i split the plastic like that?

Additional question: what's the best way to take care of the 16.5/min plastic belt? I am thinking of sinking it, but maybe i can use it for something else?

[median heath]

Single splitter.

[kindred mirage]

Uhhh i don't think a 1:1 split will cut it

[median heath]

Then you don't understand how splitters work.

[wind spade]

it's not 1:1 tho

[median heath]

50/50 split would be 15/15, right?

[kindred mirage]

well a splitter with two outputs gives 15/min on both

[kindred mirage]

Yes

[wind spade]

unless one is backed up

[median heath]

What happens when you send 15 to something that can take only 13.5?

[kindred mirage]

I'd kinda like to keep it neat, if possible
And by that i mean no overflows, but if necessary i can just do it that way

[median heath]

What is un-neat about the splitting system that 90% of the playerbase uses?

Using 14 splitters and mergers to achieve what 1 splitter can do is far more "un-neat" imo.

[viral ravine]

manifolds are far cleaner and easier to make clean than LB

[kindred mirage]

Idk, i prefer overflowless setups for some reason
I think they look more satisfying

[wind spade]

then put 13.5 on a belt

[median heath]

You're going to have fun with Aluminium.

[wind spade]

make set of machines that make 13.5, merge those machines together, hook that to the machine that needs 13.5

(also I'd recommend against using AI word generator to play a game)

[heady vine]

but we always might have something like particle accelerator and steam power stomping thingy

[heady vine]

huh, i think it perfectly fits the game to use AI

[wind spade]

and it's just easier to build enough power than to live on the edge

[heady vine]

i wont be surprised if on release those somerloops will speak phrases made by Gemini

[wind spade]

given that it's just a word generator with no knowledge of Satisfactory whatsoever...

[heady vine]

that definitelly is true

[heady vine]

we can always link it to fandom

jk, to wiki.gg

[heady vine]

it sure must know logistics

[wind spade]

yeah, you'd have to first feed it data for satisfactory, make sure it "understands" them and then you may get some decent answers. But even that has been attempted a few times and it was like a coinflip if the answer was actually correct (and that was just math)

and honestly if you're gonna give some text generator access to wiki, you can just look up the answer there yourself

[heady vine]

oh so why don't you use pigeons for texting, isntead of discord?

that's a lame argument

[wind spade]

argument "don't use unreliable source and use reliable source instead" sounds like a pretty good argument

[vapid gorge]

chat bots pretend to know what they are talking about - don't do it. It's extremely obvious when my students have used a chat bot for class work

[wind spade]

because chat bots are really just word generators. They predict what word would best fit next. All the "knowledge" and "memory" they have is basically just a byproduct of really good prediction.

[heady vine]

so how is it different from animals? from people?

all our "laws of physics" are just models which we mostly™️ see working fine
aka predictions, just less complicated

ANN is just a bunch of tensors

[wind spade]

I'm not saying it's different tho?

I'm saying it's not reliable

[heady vine]

you talking about it in demeaning way. as if it shouldn't be called intelligence

[wind spade]

I'm talking about it in a realistic way

[heady vine]

uhuh

[wind spade]

it is realistic tho? it's a word generator

[heady vine]

how is this conversation different from "word generator"?

(i have played TheTalos Principle recently, i'm just in context of asking "what is consciousness")

[wind spade]

in the fact that humans are still years ahead from AI in terms of reliability

[heady vine]

humanS, as in plural, are way dumber than ChatGPT 3.5

and more reliable

you give human a bit of vodka and it becomes chatgpt 2

[wind spade]

humans don't tell you that the word "five" consists of five letters

[heady vine]

may i remind that there more than 8 billion of human?

not many of them can read or write

[wind spade]

irrelevant, since you want to be asking the one that actually knows the answer you're looking for

[heady vine]

perfect. than there's question of competing for the ones who know the answer. they have family, health issues. there not so many of them...
but you can scale bots quite good

[wind spade]

which is also the reason why NOT to ask chatGPT some of the questions people ask it

I'm not hating on it, I'm just saying that it's a tool that many people use wrong

[heady vine]

that's on people who don't know of its capabilites - same problem as in asking person who don't write about letters

[heady vine]

also true

[wind spade]

which is why I don't recommend asking it how to play a game 🤷‍♂️

[heady vine]

but i started debate on note that it is ai

[wind spade]

I never said it isn't

[heady vine]

that's a different topic of what is game in satisfactory.
i personally am all in on using tools to solve some boring-ish problems while testing my skills of using chatbots

[heady vine]

you kinda said

[heady vine]

here

yes it is a word generator

but also is an AI

[wind spade]

no, I just called it different name that is more realistic to what it actually does. "AI" as a word/phrase is so overused nowdays and most people don't really know what it is doing and how it works. So they usually envision something like in movies, that is sentient, has memory, knowledge and can do anything. And from that come many problems with people misusing the AIs or trusting them too much. Which is why I prefer to call it more specifically, in hopes of more people knowing about what it actually does and what you should and shouldn't use it for

[vapid gorge]

it shouldn't? it's mimicing it's not figuring anything out

[sand epoch]

🍿

[vapid gorge]

@merry grove ah well I guess 'don't think about it so much' is really your first step. What do you like about the game?

[slate relic]

mimicry is a form of intelligence. It is however not considered a conscious being. Intelligence does not necessarily mean its capable of understanding

[median heath]

mimicry is a form of intelligence. It is however not considered a conscious being. Intelligence does not necessarily mean its capable of understanding

[vapid gorge]

nah, I could set a script to just repeat things and it's not intelligence. It's just a reaction

[median heath]

WOW. All you had to do was copy/paste.

[vapid gorge]

that's ok, I still can taste the disappointment xD

That wasn't my immediate reaction Sev, I'm sorry 😛

[slate relic]

that could stated as the intelligence of the pc, but not to the degree of human intelligence

[median heath]

Given how low the bar is for "human intelligence" these days.. 😉

[vapid gorge]

while chatbots have extremely complicated response patterns there's no 'intelligence' behind it

[slate relic]

correction "human intelligence"

[vapid gorge]

no just intelligence.
like how they train bots to drive in little video games, they just cull the patterns where it's crashed the 'car' in the walls

complexity isn't intelligence

[median heath]

This is a broader discussion tbh, if you're going to define what intelligence is and is not.

All of which is #off-topic-general 😉 ❤️

[kindred mirage]

It usually works, but yeah, i wouldn't exactly call it reliable by any means. It loves giving straight up stupid or impossible solutions (e.g. 'adjusting the ratio' of a splitter), but when it doesn't, most of the time the final step doesn't even get all the way to the end so i also have to apply my own brainpower

[vapid gorge]

but you also have to check it's work in the first place in case it had a stroke in the middle? which honestly is more work than doing it yourself and you get the experience of doing some design along the way

[kindred mirage]

oh no

[vapid gorge]

yeah absolutely don't use a chatbox for aluminium

[kindred mirage]

It actually likes having strokes too - it often says "split 20/min into 2 10/min belts" and then in the very next step "join the 10/min belts into 1 that's 20/min"

[vapid gorge]

exactly

[oblique hollow]

It says whatever it's model deems as "accurate enough factory mumbo jumbo"

"Yknow just split that belt to overload that machine, reconfigure that othrt connection, apply the Ruschenberger method to find lowest cost, done"

[kindred mirage]

Whenever i go to ask it, i actually don't give it the factory context - i just tell it what splitter and merger rules there are
But yeah, it just spits out whatever it thinks is accurate

[heady vine]

How is it different from animal training, from human learning?

[vapid gorge]

I'd argue it's because animals have a goal, where as chat bots and the like just have a trillion itterations and have 'wrong' results culled

chat bots come up with mass iterations w/o understanding

[wind spade]

still my original point had nothing to do whether or not AI is AI, but about reliability of the source of information

[heady vine]

what is "understanding"?

is it being able to understand something is just a function of generating words on specific topic in certain way?

[wind spade]

basing your output on information and knowledge, rather than patterns

[heady vine]

i would say that convolutional networks have more understanding of recognising faces than humans do. have you ever tried thinking about how you understand what is a face and what isn't and than testing limits of your udnerstanding of this process? Yet you can monitor what features CNN learned and reverse engineer "understanding" off it

[heady vine]

pattern is a generalization of information and knowledge.
there's nothing more humane than generalizing the heck out of everything they encounter ||there's a very easy example that shouldn't be brought up on most gaming discords because it has nothing to do with it but causes a lot of trouble in the world||

*except for cases when both ANNs and humans overfit on the data they have

yep, this point is not very solid

[wind spade]

given that pretty much all AIs already have a problem of overfitting...

[heady vine]

as do humans

[wind spade]

you can give no argument why using a word generator over community curated wiki is better

[heady vine]

there's also a very simple example regarding face recognition that i wont name because of recent developments in western culture

[heady vine]

its a question of what is better

which is defined by user

[wind spade]

relevant answer with correct information 🤷‍♂️

[heady vine]

but one thing community wiki doesn't have is a chat-like interface that can also fetch data from multiple pages

[wind spade]

it's irrelevant if it gives wrong answers anyway

[heady vine]

oh in that case chatbot would win on more use cases since wiki can cover only so many questions

[wind spade]

and chatbot doesn't cover the rest because it gives wrong answers 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

Answer is always "use multiple sources"

Even when using a chatbot: check the stuff it tells you!

[heady vine]

this calls for crafting a benchmark based of common questions people have to see how well 2 tools perform (i guess something like google is the best interface for wiki.gg since it can output highlits?)

[wind spade]

especially when using a chatbot

one could argue that wiki is much more curated than a chatbot

[oblique hollow]

Google isnt best because google shows fandom preferably

As does any search machine i guess

Because SEO be like that

[wind spade]

given the two tools are completely different in terms of how you use them, it's pretty much impossible to compare them

[heady vine]

you can always filter results from specific domain

[heady vine]

we can compare accuracy of finding answer to a question

[wind spade]

but many parts of a wiki are "here are information to answer the question yourself"

[undone hull]

We should ask Ada 😄

[magic island]

these models do not process information. they do not research facts or perform calculations. they use pattern-matching to generate text that is answer-shaped. you cannot depend on a chatbot to tell you anything you don't already know, because you won't be able to tell whether it happened to copy the right answer or if it just made something up

[primal flicker]

There should be in-game functionality to ask ADA.
And ADA should have a variety of responses that boil down to, "You're the Pioneer, so you figure it out."

[wind spade]

if you have to ask, you are not worthy to play the game, it kicks you out, deletes your saves and uninstalls itself

[viral ravine]

also wipes your drive

[primal flicker]

"Critical quality defect detected in Ficsit property. Immediate disposal of defective asset initiated."

[deft lichen]

so if there is no answer, it hallucinates one...?

[oblique hollow]

basically

thats what they are designed to do

[violet timber]

Biocoal steel rod steel coated plate

Which is better

Actually I’m just gonna take steel rods

[oblique hollow]

"which is better" is the wrong question

[violet timber]

Which is why I just decided to now take steel rod cause it’s prob the one I’m most likely to use

[oblique hollow]

good thinking

[wind spade]

@lavish stratus see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[topaz jetty]

Umm why is my fluid buffer with no output have a drain rate?

[wind spade]

Is it connected to a pipe?

(Also why are you using buffers?)

[topaz jetty]

Im storing up some fuel and no no pipe

[oblique hollow]

Wdym no pipe

How does the fuel go into the buffer

[little elk]

he successfully beat satisfactory

magic pipes ^^

[deft lichen]

the ports aren't in- or outputs, they work both ways

[wind spade]

why are you storing it? 🤔

[topaz jetty]

Some problems with my power plant...

[wind spade]

buffers usually cause problems rather than help fix them

[oblique hollow]

If you store it that just means it takes away fuel from your generators

Until it is at more than 75m3 fill level

[wind spade]

@topaz jetty re: #screenshots
those numbers are in liters, not m3

[topaz jetty]

why though? all the other numbers every where else are just fine including the machine itself

[wind spade]

because the game internally uses liters for fluid numbers

so I assume that they forgot to convert them for codex

[chilly fern]

I have water and nitrogen being freight train'd in, is there any reason to use buffers at the loading and unloading stations?

[primal flicker]

Yes
No throughput during load animation.

[chilly fern]

Should I put a pump between the station and the buffer? AFAIK the tanks have variable out-rate depending on their fill level. Would a pump provide enough "headlift" to overcome that and have a max output rate for the tank?

[primal flicker]

I think so? I've only built one.

[wind spade]

No

[wind spade]

See #design-and-architecture message

[wind spade]

@arctic willow why not manifold?

[arctic willow]

total of 1800 units coming down would mean a mess of injections

[wind spade]

no, it would mean several manifolds 🙂

you have 4 belts, so 4 manifolds

[arctic willow]

it's four belts being split to feed into another six manifolds

[wind spade]

again, why not 4 manifolds? 🤔

[arctic willow]

1. i couldn't work out a particularly good way to do it (it's feeding 24 foundries in a 6x4 block, and it's lined up based on the other input)
2. i figured this way out sooner
3. i know there are people on this discord who think that doing anything other than a manifold is Doing It Wrong but i'm not one of those people

[wind spade]

I'm not saying that anything else than a manifold is wrong

but when you're building machines, you should keep logistics in mind, in this case, build machines in a group that fit nicely into the previous and next step

f.e. you have 6x4, but if you'd feed them as 4x6, you could easily get away with 4 manifolds

or you could have the 4 belts feeding 4 manifolds and overflow from those merged in pairs to remaining two manifolds

[arctic willow]

but as i said, it's lined up on the other input which consists of six machines

[wind spade]

(I'm just giving you alternatives to making a balancer)

[wind spade]

again, that doesn't really matter, since you can still merge them in the amount you want

[vapid gorge]

remember you can clock machines - it's your most powerful logistic tool

[opal locust]

I'm up to the later part of phase 2, which means I need to build factories for encased industrial beams, motors, and heavy modular frames

motors is no big deal that's all iron or iron+copper, the other two though

[wind spade]

find a nice place that has the resources the item needs and build there

[tulip egret]

if im making 96 fuel a min that burns at 12 per sec would i just do 96/12 for how many fuel gens i can put down?

[wind spade]

12 per minute

[tulip egret]

Same difference but yeah

[median heath]

Yes.
What recipe are you using for Fuel?

[tulip egret]

Just residual. Its byproduct of my RCU factory

[median heath]

K.
When you get to Diluted, the math is just:

Oil * 2/9 = Generators.

[tulip egret]

Sounds good.

[magic kayak]

Hello, i am new to the game and I have a general question and a specifric question. I have a MK 1 Miner which produces 60 coal/m how many Mk 1 Coal Power Plants can I use with it. My idea was to split the amount of coal and split it again to get 15coal/min per plant, so 4 power plants for 1 mine, because a coal power plants can use 15 coal/m. Problem is my conveyor belts are completely full and the power plants are fully stacked with 100 coal. What I am missing here?

[topaz jetty]

Do you have enough water?

[primal flicker]

45/min water for each generator.

[magic kayak]

Yeah I have enough water

I have 12 total coal plants and 6 Water pumps

At least I think its enough

[primal flicker]

Screenshot a generator interface screen.
And 3 extractors will supply 8 generators

You only need pipeline pumps if you need the water to go up >10m from the extractor.

[magic kayak]

sorry I meant extractor

I need a second to get to the production

[primal flicker]

Just avoiding confusion

[magic kayak]

Sure, english i s not my first language

So this is one of ther coal power plants

[primal flicker]

Looks fine. One power plant keeps cycling on and off, but the rest is giving flat lines (dark and light gray)

[magic kayak]

This is what my belts look like

They are always stopping

therefor I am wondering If i could use more power plants to be moreefficient

[primal flicker]

Then you have more coal than they can burn

[magic kayak]

Ok but what is wrong with my math above?

[primal flicker]

12 coal plants should use 12×15=180 coal/min and provide 900 MW

[oblique hollow]

you didnt connect a cable to them?

[magic kayak]

They are all hooked up to the grid if you mean that

[oblique hollow]

Hm

[magic kayak]

Yeah that what i was thinking and I have 180 coal with 3 miners MK 1

[oblique hollow]

Then that shluld be fine

[magic kayak]

Still I have a lot more and the belts

on*

[oblique hollow]

do you get 75 x 12 MW too?

[primal flicker]

Out of the 12 generators, how many yellow lights do you have at any given time? Start there for troubleshooting.

[magic kayak]

no yellwo lights at all

I dont even know what a yellow light means

[oblique hollow]

Idle

[magic kayak]

ah ok

[primal flicker]

Also, general info, load balancing is not necessary. A straight manifold is just as efficient, in the long term. And a lot easier to build.

[oblique hollow]

Meaning not working

[magic kayak]

what do you mean a straight manifold

I only know math manifolds but not in this context

[primal flicker]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[oblique hollow]

just a line of splitters

[magic kayak]

ok intereseting

[primal flicker]

They fill up by overflow once each machine input fills up.

[magic kayak]

That will save me a lot of splitters

[primal flicker]

And floor space.

[primal flicker]

All of them on normal nodes, not overclocked?

[magic kayak]

yes

I have not used overclockign yet

[primal flicker]

Then 12 generators and 4.5 extractors is all you should need.

[magic kayak]

Can I check in each coal plants it output?

[primal flicker]

As long as the miners aren't idling (yellow light) you know all the coal is getting burned.

[oblique hollow]

you could, open it up and look inside

[magic kayak]

So i get the full 75x12 mW but I still have coal left with 3 miners

[primal flicker]

Only if the miners are going yellow

Are they?

[magic kayak]

no

[primal flicker]

Then all the coal is getting used.

It's the belts starting and stopping due to one belt being faster than the 15/min burn rate of one generator.

[magic kayak]

oh ok thats propably it then

Thank you very much for the help

I appreciate it

[primal flicker]

This is the only thing I would still be trying to figure out.

[next pewter]

Well, probably water shortage. Your pumps, are tgey connected w one pipe only? It can transport 300 m3/min, but you need 360 m3/min for 8 gens., or 480 for 12. So need 2 pipes, or spreading of the water connections.

[pulsar valve]

Is 4800 MW good for end of phase 1?

(I am doing the space elevator parts rn)

[primal flicker]

Probably. Everyone plays at their own scale.

[pulsar valve]

We have a max consumption of 2000 ish

Is the production overkill?

[primal flicker]

You always want more power than you are using.
Build more power when you get to around 4000MW connections.

[pulsar valve]

We will prob do plastic and rubber next as that is the reasonable next step. Do you think using some of the oil for a oil powerplant right away isn’t a good idea? We are three people so there will prob be some time where I haven’t something to do

[primal flicker]

When I unlock T5/6 the first thing I do is scan the hard drives I've been hoarding until I get all the alts I want. Then it's really easy to make some fuel alongside any oil based production.

If you don't have a stash of hard drives, it's a good time to go collecting.

[pulsar valve]

Well we have already manipulated the game so we have 500 Inventory Space but I will have to ask my mates if unlocking alt recipes is too much cheating for them. If so I will definitely do that

[median heath]

You did 4.8 GW of Biomass??

[primal flicker]

Context indicates they meant Phase 2.

[median heath]

I go by what people say.

If what they say =/= what they meant, that's on their end.

[primal flicker]

They said plastic and rubber are next.

[cinder silo]

I'd hate to run a biomass of that power 🤣

[median heath]

☝️Hence my "??"

[cinder silo]

I'm sure some nutter has done it.

[primal flicker]

I've done 1GW but you'd need some real dedication to go to 4.8 or beyond.

[little elk]

but that is nutttts

[prime spear]

Its not that bad

[vapid gorge]

@wanton dawn just to get out of the other person's post - full proof way of dealing with aluminium

[wanton dawn]

I would have to set these up and work from the solution back to the equation.

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you mean by that - do you mean set an end goal and figure out the way back? then yes, but that's generally the cleanest way to do any system in the game

honestly if you want it just functioning this is probably the least planned out option for aluminium

since you just need to do some clocking and direct things

with clocking you could probably turn just about any Alum set up you currently have w/o dismantling everything , just some of hte pipes

[wanton dawn]

I

I'm just now finishing phase two in this playthrough, so I haven't gotten near aluminum yet.

[vapid gorge]

it's a useful diagram , I suggest saving it for reference

[wanton dawn]

I did.

[vapid gorge]

the general idea behind it works for any fluid as a byproduct that can be reused in the system.

[wanton dawn]

I do try to put byproducts to use in some way.

[vapid gorge]

oh sure, but often times the simplest re use is back into the same syste. Like there's a nuclear by product of suluric acid that can be looped back similar to the waste water in alum

[pulsar valve]

Nah Coal Power

[median heath]

So then end of Phase 2.

[pulsar valve]

Ye

I got that switched up

[unreal copper]

is this VIP correct?

[autumn kernel]

Why is it not splitting to the left? (blueprint) Am i missing something?

[median heath]

Yes.

[unreal copper]

Thanks. So with these, no matter what the input is on the right of the screenshot, the left will always flow at its max rate? Just wanna make sure I understand it

[median heath]

*Should

[unreal copper]

Fair :P

[magic island]

were all these belts connected within the blueprint? or are you trying to connect something inside the blueprint to something outside it?

[desert timber]

Is 120 copper coils at 29mw per minute efficient off 1 miner?

[median heath]

What is a copper coil?

Also efficient = the light never turns yellow.

[vapid gorge]

general efficiency is just having your machines running continuously

but that sentence doesn't make any sense. By coils do you mean 'wire'? and 29mw per min?? that's a power consumption rate. As long as your machines are powered that doesn't really matter

[magic island]

29MW is indeed the power cost for making 120 wire/min from a normal-purity copper node using default recipes at default clock speed

you can eventually unlock other ways to make wire, but it sounds like you're talking about early early early game, in which case: yeah you probably hooked it up correctly

[autumn kernel]

They where both connected in the Blueprint. one is working and the other one is not.

[vapid gorge]

@pure hazel ok so how many ore are on the belt?

per min

[primal flicker]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[vapid gorge]

I'll take them through don't worry weirdo

too many cooks

[primal flicker]

Visual reference 🤷

[vapid gorge]

yup yup

[pure hazel]

Idk exacts but it's a mk2 belt coming from a non-overclocked mk1 miner on a pure node

[vapid gorge]

ok so first things first - you have to deal with numbers in the game otherwise you won't get even production

click on the miner and check

[pure hazel]

I'm at school and can't do anything in game rn sorry lad

I'm pretty sure it's 120 pre per minute tho

[vapid gorge]

ah. ok so lets pretend you have a mk2 belt that is full at 120

you'll have 4 smelters to use it all right?

[pure hazel]

I did three but I could prob do 4

[vapid gorge]

anyway, the first splitter. one goes to the machine and one goes forward right?

[pure hazel]

Ye

[vapid gorge]

it's split in two paths so 60 goes one way and 60 goes the other right?

[pure hazel]

Yeah

[vapid gorge]

a smelter only needs 30 pm - so what happens to the 60 pm when the smelter fills up?

[pure hazel]

Ok nvm I figured it out

I didn't upgrade the "belt" in the splitters

Cause I put them on an existing belt back when I had mk1

[vapid gorge]

yeah don't build splitters on belts you get weird things like that

but if you use the right numbers it'll self balance over time unless you built it wrong

[primal flicker]

@little moon thoughts on this?

[little moon]

Meh

[topaz jetty]

WHY ?!! is this blender filling up?!

this is the ONE reason my power plant is not working properly

This pipe should have max flow and it just doesnt want to

[primal flicker]

Screenshot the fuel header

[topaz jetty]

wdym?

[primal flicker]

Header = pipeline equivalent of a manifold.

[topaz jetty]

and the rest

[primal flicker]

What I would do.

Also, the loop only needs to be Mk1

[topaz jetty]

done

[primal flicker]

Hope it helps

[topaz jetty]

Problem is my blenders are still not emptying

they keep filling and yellow lighting

[wind spade]

Is it a problem that they have some fuel in them?

[primal flicker]

Are all the generators staying green?

[topaz jetty]

No kinda the biggest problem

[primal flicker]

THAT is what we need to troubleshoot.

[topaz jetty]

also my main line from the blenders is only at 550 something flow rate

so not enough fuel is coming in to the manifold

[wind spade]

Looped manifold at gens?

[primal flicker]

600 m³/min fuel can feed 50 generators. That's what you have?

[primal flicker]

See above screenshots

[topaz jetty]

20 at 250%

[primal flicker]

So mathematically, yes. OK.

[topaz jetty]

and this is the input line

[primal flicker]

Try running your loop all the way back, like this.

[topaz jetty]

that fixed the blender yellow lighting issue and the input flow issue (i think?)

the gens seem to be filling properly now , but it will take some time to validate that everything is fixed

now these two gens have started dropping out

The previous problem gens though are now working fine

well it fixed itself thanks guys!

[primal flicker]

[topaz jetty]

an hour or so later, it is confirmed fixed!

[primal flicker]

🥳

[open mango]

Next build > the plan ..

To connect to this >

[sudden sluice]

How many smelters can 1 mk1 miner handle

like provide iron ore

[median heath]

That is too vague of a question.

[median heath]

Smelter at 100% clock for iron is processing 30/min.

How much iron ore are you providing? (and do not say "mk1 miner", look at the actual number of how much ore the miner is giving you)
Then divide amount supplied by 30, that is the number of smelters you need to build to process it.

[sudden sluice]

Ty, im new so i just wanted to know how many smelters do i need to have for one miner, thanks for the math

[median heath]

I will also say you need to invert your thinking.

Do not look at "I have this much ore, what can I do?"
It is far better to look at "This is what I want to do, how much ore does that take?"

Pick your target and solve backwards.

If what you want needs 110 ore, get 110 ore. Don't force the use of 120 ore just because you have it.

☝️ Will save you a lot of frustration as you progress.

[sudden sluice]

arent you supposed to do a process line for each item, im kinda new so ..

[median heath]

It's a sandbox.
You are "supposed to do" whatever you feel like doing.

[open mango]

for final (that's me) ..

intermediates are only what is needed for the final

[median heath]

I mean I personally recommend making new lines, yes.
I.E. If you want Plates for storage, make Plates.
When you go to make Reinforced Plates, make new Plates for that line without drawing from your Plates line.
And so on.

But there are certain items that you don't need to store, so they don't deserve a dedicated line.

[sudden sluice]

Im currently making a line for each item, using splitters to save a little portion of the item and/or using what i have left for lines that need it, but that is a good idea

[median heath]

I try to have good ideas 😭

[open mango]

as the (game) time pass, you'll have item in quantities. Don't be bother about quantities

[median heath]

Huh?

[open mango]

a stock is most often not needed ... Just produce what you need

[median heath]

Central Storage area is highly recommended and most people build one.

[open mango]

not me 🙂

[median heath]

Which is a perfectly valid approach, but not one I would recommend to new players.

[open mango]

but great to have (another build to build) 😉

i'll do a personal storage only when i reach (not yet) the nuclear. I¨don't need actually, at all

and i reached the last phase ..

depends how you play, but a storage is never (all the time) a need

[tulip egret]

Its a high reccomendation not a requirement

[median heath]

I build and decorate way too much to not have infinitely replenished storage for things like Rods, Plates, and Concrete.

Steel Beams too.

Love me some Frame pieces and Grip Metal.

[open mango]

I pick up my ressources from the machines, directly 😄

[median heath]

That would cause disruption in the production chains.
Which would make lights turn yellow.
And I would rather uninstall my game than intentionally have yellow lights on production machines.

[open mango]

I mean > the stacks are in good amount (for me). If i have to wait until the replenish, then i do another thing (not building)

Or let the game running, doing other things in parallel (not gaming)

When overclocked, the machines produce really a lot of items !

[tulip egret]

respectfully you have to be sick in the head

[open mango]

Because i don't play like 99.99% of all others ? Probably

Probably i'm not productive enough. Big deal

[tulip egret]

Because intentionally having yellow lights (not because of storage full or inefficient) is just crazy to me

[open mango]

The sanity personified

[raven zealot]

bruh that sounds so unfun. I let my machines max out as I explore. Yellow light means w/e to me lol

[median heath]

My machines run continuously and I am free to explore for as long as I wish without fear of them ever filling up.
So I am not sure how that sounds unfun?

Machines produce.
Production routed to storage.
Storage fills.
Production routed to Sinks to create points to increase Coupon amount.

Nothing ever stops moving.

[open mango]

Say we are 1 million to play (example right ), then there is 1 million different ways to play (not only in satisfactory, but particularly in satisfactory). So ...

[median heath]

For the record, I have no issues with the way you play.
Do what makes you happiest.

It is just not a way I would approach things or recommend to new players.

[open mango]

i was a new player, never had a storage (or for the phases)

the only items i store are not automated

so yes, i've a storage, but not a room and machine for it

in practice, every machine has it's own storage. That's my point

and stack are well balanced (for my use)

in other words > a starter base can stay a starter base, even if you reached the last phase and build "reasonably"

in ² words > a "real" storage room (or space) is an end game

for so > 0.01% of that million players

fof all the game items (you never can produce before finishing the phases). Pure logic

[tulip egret]

what?

[open mango]

about what ?

[tulip egret]

just

nvm keep having fun man

[open mango]

you too

actually planning since 2 days

not really playing

[raven zealot]

I sink about half of what I produce. The other half is tightly wound into the main factory and it would look ugly to create sinks. Maybe my fault for not thinking ahead. And yea everyone is free to play their own style it just seems a bit militant your aprroach.

[median heath]

Still confused.

Planning ahead is part of the puzzle. The game is about the puzzle.
If people don't want to plan and just build chaos, that is a perfectly valid approach.
Not sure how having a plan comes across as "unfun".

[raven zealot]

well it does too me I dunno. I have fun just winging every base I make. sometimes I'll spend an entire day rebuilding things if I don't like how it all ends up. I guess other people would find it unfun to do that and would rather plan.

[median heath]

Depends on which aspect I guess?
Like I plan the numbers out. So I know the inputs and outputs I am working with.

But as far as the actual building goes, that is a process. Each of my outposts takes about a week to do because there is constant rebuilding going on.

Planning a layout for a specific area is something that... I don't truly think can be done in most cases. You have to feel it out.

Unless you're building in the sky or over the ocean where terrain isn't a constraint.

[raven zealot]

I do some number crunching as well but often I do it a bit on the fly as well. LIke i want to build end part A so I'll take a node and max it out producing ingots, then I move to the next part and next etc, then if i have extra I will fork it off to build something else. It ends up working out pretty well. If I get any excess I'll drone it out to another factory.

[median heath]

Fair.
I solve from end product backwards. As I also recommend to other people.

If an area can make 9k iron, but I need only 8k, I make only 8k.
I don't force the 9k just because it is there.

[raven zealot]

Yea that makes sense. I guess I just see that extra 1k iron as another part I can make. I try to fully ultilize every single node to it's max potential before moving on

[median heath]

Good luck forcing all 74k iron on the map 😉

[raven zealot]

oh no I'm leaving a lot of the world untouched currently. I plan on building extravagant buildings with nothing inside them once I have completed stage 4 😛

I wish we could go undground because I would 100% build an underground lair with huge glass walls looking out into the ocean

[open mango]

It's possible (don't know how). Just seen some save with underground builds ...

I play with 0 mod

Nor commands in any sense

[median heath]

You can.

[raven zealot]

How? the only way I can get under the water is by jumping off a high cliff

[median heath]

Underwater and underground are 2 different things, which are you wanting information on?

[raven zealot]

Well i want to excavate

not talking about building in a cave

[open mango]

under the mesh

[median heath]

Multiple places in the map currently have holes that allow you to pass under the map.
Otherwise you can just build a hypertube though part of the map and hop into it to clip through.

[open mango]

probably with the god mode or something

[median heath]

Not needed.

Taro's entire save file is based on underground networks.

[open mango]

link ?

thanks in advance ...

[median heath]

To his save file? Doesn't work like that.

[open mango]

ah, of course

only for the elite right

[median heath]

No. Just saves are on files.
Not links.
You have to ask them for the file and they send it to you.
We don't publicly post files because it cannot be verified whether the file is good or not.

[open mango]

ok

anyway, i saw that in streams so ...

seems legit (the hole etc.)

or not

[sand epoch]

Its not a secret.. there is literally a giant hole in the map you can enter..

People have built whole nuclear setups inside it..

[cinder silo]

I hope he realises just how much material is used when building below the map (way unsupported)

[left violet]

I am new player can somę one can show the most Effectiive Factory for max the elevator to space

[wind spade]

Wdym by "effective"?

[left violet]

Like many Items per min

[wind spade]

That just means "build a lot"

[left violet]

Ok i new so Idk about it

[golden pawn]

step 1)
get resources needed to make space elevator products
step 2)
make space elevator products
step 3)
put them in the space elevator

if you mean the final elevator delivery, here you go:
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_7_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_6_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_8_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_9_C"%3A"2"}

that will complete the final tier in around 400 minutes, or 6 hours of playtime

[wind spade]

No alts?

[hybrid hatch]

@prime turret I did groups of six Coalgens and put an 300 line of Water with 3 Water extractors on 75% Underclocking on them. 18 Coalgens are using one Mk 3 Belt with coal.

[vapid gorge]

this isn't factorio, it's not a solved game. You set a goal to make X items pm then you figure out how you want to go about it depending on what recipes you pick and where you want the factory to be located

[tulip egret]

@vapid gorge so not like this

[vapid gorge]

that' also works - I mainly do the feed pipe above to give the lower pipe priority. It might give a benefit to me since I bottom feed. I also like the looks of it better. But doing it from the side should also be fine

[median heath]

That works just fine.

[tulip egret]

Sounds good. I just didnt want to do it then wonder why I see yellow lights lol

So I only have to do this kind of loop for things i need max flow rate for right? Or is there a threshold

[vapid gorge]

follow the rest of hte rules on that link I shared - they aren't 'you have to do these things' rules , if you know what you're doing you can bend or even break some of them. They are just good suggestions for reliable pipe systems in all cases

[vapid gorge]

honestly? I'd just do it for all systems at this point unless you want to try to figure out where and how you can bend the rules

[tulip egret]

Yeah screw that. Its a little more plastic that will ease my mind lol

[vapid gorge]

yeah I'm well versed enough I could probalby spot the places I could ignore having loops but I can't be bothered having to go back and redesign in case I'm wrong

if you're only feeding like 3 machines from 1 pipe junction? youcan probalby not have a loop - maybe even a short line of 4. But longer manifolds and machines that need more fluid pm seem to cause more issues that need loops

[tulip egret]

I can make near 2000 DPF if im reading this correctly with only 600 oil and very little iron and copper

[vapid gorge]

nice 😄

[tulip egret]

there might be near 3000 water as well but that doesnt matter

1540.299 DPF per min :)

[wheat saddle]

whats the efficiency of coal to water genz?

[median heath]

Uh... if you're asking how much water do Coal Gens need -- 45/min.

[wheat saddle]

I meant ratio

[median heath]

They need 45/min.

[prime turret]

awesome thanks

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch coal+generator

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=coal+generator

[old bramble]

First to solve this equation has a hug :
2x + 3 = 4

[median heath]

?

2x = 4 - 3
2x = 1
x = 1 / 2
x = 0.5

[fierce ruin]

tricked into doing their homework, should've resisted

[deft lichen]

good luck

[old bramble]

🫂

[old bramble]

No real solutions...

fries are imaginary

[median heath]

Fries are 5/12

[deft lichen]

well, find the non-reals

[median heath]

So you end up with:

x ^ (5/12) = 3 + x

[old bramble]

what do you mean

fries are not 5/12

They are plus or minus i

[fierce ruin]

these are imaginary 5/12

don't confuse with real 5/12

[median heath]

[old bramble]

🤔

[fierce ruin]

its actually impossible to solve since FRYxFRY (FRY^2) needs to be negative but it can't be

so unfortunately i'm 99% of people

[deft lichen]

there are multiple solutions and afaik a few are real

[median heath]

Brain saw + sign on second line as *

[old bramble]

Everyone is 99% peopke

[deft lichen]

nope

[fierce ruin]

there is still 1% of those who answered 21

[old bramble]

They are no solutions to this equation

[fierce ruin]

pfft normie

[wet flame]

actually don't think this has solutions. x^i - x is always complex, because if x is real, then x^i is complex, and if x is complex, then, even though x^i becomes real, x itself becomes complex. since we're trying to get 3, it seems impossible.

we're always going to have an imaginary term in there somewhere

[deft lichen]

it has solutions, but complex ones

[wet flame]

ohh shit mb

of course there are

my mistake, i thought we were multiplying with i, but it's in the exponent, that works

[deft lichen]

I admit that I know for sure that it is solvable, but I can't do the whole solution myself

[wind spade]

@lavish stratus see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

Posting in #screenshots is kinda useless since we can't talk there

[lavish stratus]

oh k alright thanks ! sorry to disturb

[wind spade]

It's fine 🙂 but read the linked message for more info 😉

[frosty owl]

TLDR: Fries aren't real. They are, in fact, French.

[true junco]

I spent way to long on this and even tried putting it into a few online solvers.

Cannot get past: x^±i - x = 3

Tried a few approximate solution methods and they all dont go much further either...

One of which lead to
i ln(x) -x = 2

Which idk a solution for either. Lol

I dont think their is an explicit solution to this. File under "problem created either by an idiot, or a troll" and move on. 😆

[tulip egret]

Why did i get tagged 😭

[median heath]

Ben could solve it.

[deft lichen]

I posted it mostly as a joke in response to the message it replies to

[versed violet]

This is math(and meta) channel, do not give us problems that we think we can solve 🐦
|| ~ -2.9798 + 0.03885i OR ~0.2797 - 0.7484i||

[graceful nymph]

hey guys,
is it possible for 12 water extractors to provide water for 33 coal gens?

[median heath]

How much water does 1 coal gen need?

[graceful nymph]

45m^3/min

[median heath]

45 * 33 = ?

[graceful nymph]

1485

[median heath]

1485 / 12 = ?

[graceful nymph]

123.75

[median heath]

How much water does 1 Water Extractor produce?

[graceful nymph]

120m^3/min

[median heath]

Is 123.75 > 120?

[graceful nymph]

indeed

[median heath]

Then the answer to your question is? 🙂

[graceful nymph]

it does

tysm. gonna slap a slug in each of them

[median heath]

Or just... add 1 more Extractor?

[graceful nymph]

that-

works too

[wind spade]

@sudden sluice what do you mean by "bad"?

also see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choice help.

And putting the image in #screenshots means it's super hard for anyone to comment or help you with the selection

[sudden sluice]

first people told me to post things like that there

[sudden sluice]

i dont see any utility on there

[wind spade]

who told you? 🤔

[wind spade]

all three are useful in some situations. If you don't like any of them, just pick one at random and move on

[viral ravine]

They have a point with the biocoal

It is quite bad, sure not technically useless but you'd have to try to get into a situation where it helps you on purpose

[wind spade]

there have been people who have been using it 🤷‍♂️

[sudden sluice]

i know have this option

i just pressed escape to reset

[wind spade]

again, read #math-and-meta message for help with picking

[wind spade]

that's imo waste of time 🤷‍♂️ pick one and find another drive instead (it's also a bug that will most likely get fixed)

[viral ravine]

wasn't it fixed already?

I could've sworn i seen people complain about this no longer being possible

[sudden sluice]

it sometimes works

last time i tried it didnt work

[primal flicker]

Always worst option imo

It's a bug anyway

[primal flicker]

I rate all three of these as highly useful.
But steel screws >>>

[wind spade]

all recipes are useful 🤷‍♂️

[primal flicker]

Some are more used than others. And those lists vary widely between players.

[wind spade]

more used =/= more useful

[primal flicker]

Intuitively, there should be a connection...

[wind spade]

more used = more popular

popularity differs from usefulness