math-and-meta

[thorn bane]

well it is based on facts, like "compared to all other spots, this one beats the game the fastest"
and not on opinions like, "i like it it has a bunch of iron"
i somewhat agree that it is hard to define what beating the game means, since its in early access so there is no end yet
but then again, sending the space elevator is clearly marked as your objective, so its not that much of a jump to declare that as "winning", or "beating the game"
even then its even more clear since even for 1Package runs it is the best spot, and there is no arguing that gaining access to T3/T4 is clearly the goal
so the question becomes "what is the best starting spot to unlock T3/T4
and that is empirecally (https://www.speedrun.com) that spot

[wind spade]

if you're basing it on "speedrunners use it", then it's not "best spot", but "best spot for speedrunners"

[bold elm]

That "best" location is good to start. But not a great place to soley base.

[thorn bane]

no "best spot for beating the game"

[wind spade]

and if you're basing it on "beats game fastest", then it's not "best spot", but "best spot if you want to beat the game fast"

[topaz jetty]

On the basis of true efficiency, and keeping the goal of Phase one in mind, then you are right.

[wind spade]

like all the arguments you have are valid, given the premises. Which makes it not "objectively best", but "best if premises are valid"

and your premises may not be same as other people's ones

[bold elm]

Do people speed run this game...?

[topaz jetty]

Yup

[thorn bane]

but thats what "best" means
when i say what is the best build in an arpg, then im not asking for what looks cool, or gives me the most chill experience, im asking for what build is the best at clearing the content (i.e. beating the game)

do you not think something that makes you take 10x as long to beat the game is 'worse'?

[wind spade]

but that assumes you want to beat it "fast"

[thorn bane]

well yes because thats what "best" means
you need a metric

[wind spade]

example from Factorio:
always handcrafting is the "best" for beating the game fast, but I enjoy automating things to prevent the need handcrafting, even if it costs me time

[thorn bane]

sure and you can play that way
but its not the best
(again that is fine, because most times the best is not the most fun)

[wind spade]

you need a metric
exactly. So if you're claiming something is "best", you should include the metric in the claim

[thorn bane]

well the issue is there is no other metric

[wind spade]

there's tons of metrics

[thorn bane]

i mean in respect to reaching the goal of unlocking T3/T4

we have a clear goal uf SE stages
so we need to lok at metrics on what it means to be "best" at achieving this goal
there is no score so thats out
alot of other stuff cant be measured like "my factory looks cool"
so the only option left is time
and again thats what most other games use

[wind spade]

even then, speedrunning goal is usually different from normal player goal
speedrunners want to basically end up with nothing except unlocked next tier, so use any resources they have on hand to make stuff
normal players want to have things prepared for future (e.g. automate more RIPs because they'll be using mk2 belts in the future, which speedrunners won't do because they are doing package%)

[thorn bane]

sure but i can also want to not use automation
that doesnt make it the best

[wind spade]

that makes it best for me

[topaz jetty]

True speedrunners only care for T3/T4 and do nothing else

[thorn bane]

there are 4Package runs that still use the same spot

[topaz jetty]

i would also include things like caterium in the criteria of this

[thorn bane]

it is best in all those 4 metrics
1Package
2Package
3Package
and 4Package

[wind spade]

you practice in one spot, makes more sense

I'd bet that if someone tried other spot, they could (after some time) reach better results

given that reaching last SE stage doesn't require everything in the game (e.g. nuclear and stuff like that), and most people don't even have "beat the game" as main goal (if we define beating the game = package 4, since sandbox games are not "beaten"), I wouldn't even agree with setting last package as main objective for comparing locations

[thorn bane]

i disagree
there are way to many advantages of the spot
you are just really close to other spots where you can set up factories
also speeding up the early game still helps

[thorn bane]

thats cool and all but then whats the goal
you cant just throw your hands in the air and go "there is no goal" voila!
ofcourse then "best" has no meaning

[wind spade]

you're still picking "time" as a metric, which already is subjective (even if you can have arguments on why you picked it)

[wind spade]

players set their own goals

[true junco]

This sounds like trying to turn a sandbox game into a competative game. Why the hell would anyone want to do that?

[thorn bane]

but it still objective in that metric
thats not what subjective means

[wind spade]

you pick a goal
you pick how you want to reach it

this gives you "objective" best ways to play

but you need to pick the two first

[thorn bane]

because people obviously knwo what "best" means
its just kinda ahrd to define it

[wind spade]

if you pick a subjective goal, there's objective best for that goal
but there's no objective best for any goal

^ TLDR of my argument

[thorn bane]

given 2 options

1. use assemblers/manufacturers
2. only handcraft everything
   people will understand that 2 is "better"
   and the reason for that is that, similar to alot of different games "better" is 99.9% associated with winning faster

if there was a point system and you get highscores, sure then it would be different

[wind spade]

is better only in some cases (obviously it's probably majority cases, but still)

[topaz jetty]

For example

[thorn bane]

i feel like if most people intuitively understand what "better" means
as in they induce the given metric, so you can speak of a objective metric
it might be hard to define it
but in EVERY case that ive seen where people say "best" and dont give their metric, then the solution achieved fastest win time
ofcourse you might disagree with these people because you play the game different
but again saying 1. is better because thats what you prefer, is not what people understand of when they hear "the best"

[topaz jetty]

This game is about doing what you want and setting your own goals

[thorn bane]

sure you can do that but you wont say your way is "the best" right?

[topaz jetty]

the whole space elevator thing is just to nudge you in the right direction and in the future it will be a method of completing the game

Once there is an ending that is

[wind spade]

my way is "the best" for what I want to achieve

hence when people ask "what's best", you should ask them what do they want to achieve

[thorn bane]

ye thats just not how the internet works xD

[wind spade]

except that's exactly what I'm doing and I have very positive reactions from people I ask this

[thorn bane]

whe people google "best build d4"
then the articles dont ask
so what exactly are you looking for
do you want a build that looks really cool?

[wind spade]

the articles usually specify what the "best" is

and even in RPGs, you have "best" in DPS, "best" in "safe DPS" (hard to die, lower DPS), "best" in "tanking damage", etc.

[thorn bane]

idk ive googled a bit and kinda disagree xD
sure if you ask for whats the "best safe dps"
or in out terms
"whats the best starting spot when i wanna have a chill time"
and in that case, sure you can account for that, but thats different then asking for "the best starting spot"

[wind spade]

simple:
if it's "best", it should be the only answer for any "what is best given X" question
since it isn't (obviously), it's not "best", it's "best in these scenarios"

[thorn bane]

but "the best" doesnt work like that
you cant just say its not the best because under my metric of "the best but not that one actually" its not the best

[wind spade]

it does

"what is best car"
has no single answer, unless you specify what "best" means

[wary tulip]

I believe the “best” was already covered in the original question -
“ idk if this is the place to ask but it says meta so i assume so, whats the best place to build in general is it still that one spot in the northern forest?”

The user was asking about meta, which would be the averaged preferred starting location. Which is northern forest speed runners point.

[thorn bane]

sure but you dont "win at cars", or "beat cars"
we have a fixed goal here

[wind spade]

we don't. We have a goal that you chosen as fixed

and we have "win at cars", there's races
same as there's speedrunning in satisfactory

[wary tulip]

That’s why best was in reference to the game meta.

[thorn bane]

well no the game sets it
you cant progress unless you send the space elevator
so sending the space elevator is obviously beating the start of the game

[wind spade]

(oh I was replying to Zyranex only, I didn't know there was a previous related question. I guess I'm talking now purely theoretical, without respect to the original question)

[thorn bane]

the issue greeny mentioned is that "meta" doesnt really stand for anything in a sandbox game where you can play as you want, especially in an early access game that you cant even "win"/"beat"

[wind spade]

game doesn't set "you have to beat it fast" though

[thorn bane]

well kinda
if you look at examples like

1. the factory works
2. the factory doesnt work
   then i think you can objectively say that 1. is better
   but this also implies that 1. lets you beat the game fast
   since you didnt just waste a bunch of resources on nothing
   my point is that every mentioning of "best", without explaining their metric, also satisfies the metric of "beats the game fastest"

[wind spade]

my point is that every mentioning of "best", without explaining their metric, also satisfies the metric of "beats the game fastest"
I'd disagree, you can definitely find examples where whatever beats the game "fastest" isn't the solution for "best" in that context

[thorn bane]

i mean its hard to check since youd need to actually ask the person in what the meant by "best"

[wind spade]

which is why I'm always asking that

[languid python]

There is no best goal if you make the goal

[wind spade]

and very often the answer is different than what I expect to be their "best"

[languid python]

That's why you make it

[thorn bane]

do you have some examples? that seems weird
just the simplest A works B doenst already works with fastes win time
and i feel like thats 99% of questions

[wind spade]

example:

what is best fuel
I've seen several of those questions and it was one of these:

• most energy per piece
• most energy per stack
• simplest to make for trucks in some far location
• (also, radioactive/not)

I'm not even talking about "what is best recipe", we've talked about this many times, that would probably be even better example

[thorn bane]

but dont these all imply fastest win?
why does he want most energy per piece/stack?
so he doesnt have to refuel them as often
->less time spend refueling, more time spend on beating the game
why does he want the simplest to make?
because he can build the simplest the fastest instead of getting stuck on a complicated one and wasting time
-> less time to build the factory, more time beating the game
why does he care about radioactive/not
because if he dies to radioactivity then he has to spend time getting his gear back.
-> time spend running instead of beating the game

[wind spade]

less time spend refueling
except if he puts in one PFR he doesn't need to refuel for like ever

[thorn bane]

yes
and i think he would consider that the best, because he doesnt have to spend time on refueling

[wind spade]

but what if the question isn't about manual refuelling at all?

it's about automation of a vehicle fuel

or anything else

but even if you want to ignore that example, the example of "what is the best recipe" is completely valid. Without context, you can't answer that
and you can't even objectively compare which recipe gives them more "speed" to "finish" the game

[thorn bane]

yes because we dont have data on that -> cant make an objective answer
say we had data
the average time to win the game of people choosing encased heavy modular frames is 40h
the average of people not using it is 43h
then we could say that encased is better than default

[wind spade]

better than default on average

(and this also fails because you're not comparing recipes, you're comparing recipe paths, and those can be only compared if you have a specific goal in mind, which already makes it the most subjective thing in history)

[thorn bane]

well that just means that the problem is complex, and we dont have data on it,
that doesnt mean that we can only give opinions on it

[wind spade]

so, if there's a problem (winning the game), and part of that problem (comparing recipes) is unsolvable, how can you solve the main problem?

[thorn bane]

empirically
people have started in the grass lands and beaten the game slower than in the northern forest

and i feel like if we had a spreadsheet of people beating the game, and the recipes they used, then we could also give help based on that

[wind spade]

where do you have this data?

[thorn bane]

runs at speedrun.com

[wind spade]

so you're limiting your dataset to only speedrunners?

then your results will be limited to speedrunners as well

[thorn bane]

well the other way around
im basing my dataset on the metric of minimize time to win
and speedrunners by definition minimize that metric

[wind spade]

but speedrunners usaully play the game differently than normal people
so even if a normal person would ask "whats best to beat the game fastest", they may not have the skills/knowledge/style to actually make use of it

we can't know if speedrunner cliff is best for fastest beat beacause any player will beat it fast there, or because it fits into strategy that speedrunnners use

[thorn bane]

sure but thats the difference "best" and "best for me"
and the latter is just impossible to answer

[wind spade]

the former*

the latter is possible to answer, because you actually have the data about preferences and goals

in the former you don't, so you have to generalise, which ultimately ends up as "depends"

[thorn bane]

well its not really generalizing as taking what most people assume as "best" and giving the solution under that assumption
for best for me
i feel like that doesnt really work in a practical sense
people dont really give goals/preferences and i feel like even if you ask them for it, then they cant really specify what they actually want.
ive seen way to many people ask "whats the best recipe"
you reply "under what goals/preferences"
and they just dont answer
same with the guy that asked for the "best starting spot"
there is a reason that people prefer posting pictures of 1/2/3 recipe choices instead of writing an essay of their goals for this particular playing session including all the previons knowledge, etc.

[wind spade]

this all feels worse than just asking "wdym by best"

and they just dont answer
almost all people do answer

I wouldn't do it if I didn't have success with it

[thorn bane]

when was the last time you actually recommended a recipe lul

[wind spade]

there is a reason that people prefer posting pictures of 1/2/3 recipe choices instead of writing an essay of their goals for this particular playing session including all the previons knowledge
that's essentially the same as rolling a dice for the recipe to pick, if you're just gonna follow "whichever player reacts first with what number"

[wind spade]

today

[next pewter]

is there a way to make "priority mergers"?

i know that it is not in the game by default, but maybe by abusing the packager logic gates, as i know you can make AND and NOT ports with that, so controlling a merger specifically?

What i mean, is that one side is given priority, if it is available, like with a VIP fluid junction, but then for non-fluids?

[wind spade]

there's some weird ways in which you can make kind-of priority merger

but better question is, why do you need one?

[next pewter]

well: got empty nitrogen bottles returned to where the new ones are produced

how can i make sure they are not overproduced and have to be sunken/sinked?

i need to keep the flow of the returning bottles bc i drone them in (to near the production), so if i dont process them, they will clog production.

so either i have to sink a constant amount and always produce empty bottles at max rate, or (ideally) make some kind of prio merger, yes.

[wind spade]

or make a fixed amount and have it be closed loop without production

[next pewter]

true, injection is not needed when everything is brought back. but as it is a system with at least 3 locations, i'll have to add a big buffer then.

and if someone else syphons out some bottles it might break.

but right, will be the cleanest/easiest 🙂

just need to add sufficientbuffer then at production side, after taking out the production.

[wind spade]

then make sure nothing syphons the bottles, make it three closed loops (or one if you really want to) and it should work 🙂

[next pewter]

true true, will give that a try, ty!

[thorn bane]

id probably do what greeny said and just make a buffer but there are options (they just arent that great)
1: continuesly merge until it is a 9999...9:1 merger
see for example #math-and-meta message
it lets through an item every 1915 years so for practical reason its pretty much perfect, but ye its kinda bulky
2. use trains for actual true prio merge:
train picks up used canisters and then drives to the supply stations
if the train is full then it wont load any new ones
but ye its kinda big xD

[worldly river]

Hi guys,

I'm new to Satisfactory, but not to the genre. I'm excited that this game lets us have vertically stacked production buildings! I'm doing my first smelter setup and was trying to incorporate that. My first attempt is the design in this screenshot. The idea is to split the input line (red) off into the smelter at each level as it travels up, and then merge the products into the output line (green) as it travels back down.

Now that I've built the thing, I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed by it. I feel like a horizontal production line would have been better in terms of:
1.) Ease of setup
2.) Construction costs
3.) CPU performance due to having more moving parts (AKA: UPS, or whatever term people use for it in Satisfactory)
4.) Visuals (there's some moderate soft-clipping on all those conveyor lifts)

Given this, I believe I'd be better off having horizontal assembly lines on each floor instead of having vertical assembly lines that span multiple floors. My impression is that this is going to be true for most machines/recipes in the game. Is that the general opinion of the community here? Is there some other design/layout for this sort of thing which would be more efficient?

[vapid gorge]

as long as machines are running properly it's 'efficient'
but horizontal probalby seems simpler since there's a lot less length of belt going side by side with machines than just vertically right?

You can also do things like sushi belts that carry multiple item types on 1 belt feeding sets of machine

as for computer resources - eh? unless you've got a potato or making a build thats bigger than reason it probably won't make much of a dif.

a lot of the build issues you have though can be 'fixed' by making blue prints if you like?

if it's compact you like you can do things like this? run belts under feeding #math-and-meta message

[worldly river]

Yeah, I was thinking/hoping when I unlock blueprints they'd make it easier to add new floors to this thing. There's no way in hell I'd manually build 26 floors like this.

[vapid gorge]

I've also done towers like this which is semi vertical #design-and-architecture message

[worldly river]

I do like things compact. It's sort of my thing.

[vapid gorge]

I think even with BPs though horizontal stuff will tend to be simpler - take up less space and easier to organise feeding nearby systems

but I'm sure that can be worked around with careful planning

[worldly river]

Makes sense, thanks

[junior aurora]

Just an off thought on verticality, I do use some form of it to "combine" machines together. My assembler for quickwire sits right above my pure copper refinery, directing taking the refinery input since its a 1:1. Same for my pure copper refinery -> fused wire assembler -> cable constructors.

Blueprints make this alot simpler too

[vapid gorge]

Oh just as a thing - don’t do this with fluids

[oblique hollow]

Fluid should always be seperate feeds that all start at ground level and then go up to their respective floors, there thwy can then connect to the machines with a horizontal manifold

not a vertical split in a pipe that goes to multiple levels

[vapid gorge]

@hasty ruin there's plenty of sulfur on the map - it's not something you're ever likely to run out of

@hasty ruin and these are the recipes

and the one really convenient spot

[topaz jetty]

!wikisearch coal

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=coal

[topaz jetty]

Will this be enough to build a fairly large coal power setup?

about this size #satisfactory-experimental message

[median heath]

There is a ToDo list in game where you can specify the exact number of each building and it displays the total materials needed to build all buildings on the list.

[topaz jetty]

Thats the kicker.. i dont know the exact number

Im planning to expand and redesign it

and also figure out the hell i did in the original design

[median heath]

Well your number is limited by your coal input.
So it is just a matter of selecting that.

[topaz jetty]

well i have 4 normal, 1 pure but i want to build a steel setup using the same

How much coal does 1 generator need?

!wikisearch Coal_generator

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Coal_generator

[median heath]

Stop thinking in terms of purity and start thinking in terms of actual, specific numbers.

[topaz jetty]

So that is 360/min

that previous setup is 480/min for 2.4 GW

Thats fine i got shards

so i can easily get 480 at least

is 120/min enough for steel?

Okay all i need is solid steel ingot alt and im set

[median heath]

"Enough" is something only you, personally, can determine.

[wind spade]

depends how much steel you need

[topaz jetty]

Yeah did the math, and I will need the solid steel ingot alt for how much i need

ah well not difficult to get

and that gives me easily 2.4 GW of power with 4 nodes and some slugs

well 8 shards but that should be easy

[primal flicker]

cries in >1,000 shards for nuclear power 😭

But it's my fault for insisting on that setup 🤣

At least I got 144 purple and 144 yellow slugs on standby

[topaz jetty]

How many total slugs are there?

Here

[primal flicker]

A lot.
I haven't even gotten many from the red highlands. But I cleaned out the spire coast.

[topaz jetty]

Yeah you can get 2093 shards in total according to my math

[primal flicker]

And I'm using over half of them to make my nuclear monstrosity less monstrous 😆

It's the water extractors tbh

But also 120 fewer cooling towers.

[topaz jetty]

Cooling Towers?

[primal flicker]

"Nuclear power plants" is more work for my thumbs.

[topaz jetty]

Ah.

[topaz jetty]

Also how many MW are you making?

[primal flicker]

Still only on basic fuel power. I'll be making just enough to run uranium fuel production, prior to commissioning the project.

[barren elm]

There's infinite slugs really

Not only lizard doggies, but sometimes they just randomly reset all collected slugs

[primal flicker]

[primal flicker]

That's not random. Happens with major updates.

[barren elm]

Happens randomly

[primal flicker]

Well if so, I haven't seen it yet.

[barren elm]

Often without any patch going out, sometimes even without closing the game

[primal flicker]

🇸 🇺 5️⃣

[topaz jetty]

Well how many do you plan to make

[primal flicker]

My nuclear setup will generate 1,050GW

[topaz jetty]

Holy smokes! That is a lot

[primal flicker]

More than I can possibly use.

[true junco]

Its happened to me a few times before. But usually not all slugs. Just a bunch of them. Also had a few other things randomly repopulate... like onece i had abunch of mineral chunks regenerate and change to uranium... made for a spicy trainstation...

[quasi mountain]

wh

somewhat certain that thats not correct

[median heath]

Use Tools.

[hollow egret]

always nice to see someone with 'jan' in their name 👀

[hollow egret]

Is the tools website the best for doing factory planning as of now? I saw that the Github was last updated like 2 years ago, but the website claims to support Update 8. Still not entirely sure

[median heath]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

Yes, it is the best.

Also nothing has really changed, so greeny is spending his time on the next version of it instead of updating the current version.
Given the current version of it works fine.

[hollow egret]

Alright, thanks! I already used it as of now, just was asking in case if any new popular tools were created in the last year or so that I needed to know about

[median heath]

People are always making new tools.
None of them have outclassed Tools.

[sand epoch]

And tools is being completely rebuilt....

[median heath]

Aye.

Changing from screwdriver to cordless drill.

[hollow egret]

What will the new version bring?

[oblique hollow]

Stuff

[wind spade]

Have you lookesd at "master" branch?

[hollow egret]

Ah, sorry. I didn't realize that the link pointed to the dev branch by default. I see it all now!

[topaz jetty]

Starting up my coal plant,fun!

Turns out past me was smart with the design, smarter than me

so had to make some last minute modifications

[azure olive]

Prefill the water pipes and use smart splitters with overflow, gives you a smooth start😍

[topaz jetty]

Dont got Ai limiters being produced and this is more fun

had nearly 0 flow rate to begin with because i thought i could save two pumps

Capacity should max out at 2400 MW

Plenty of space for activities!

[wind spade]

main goal is to make code easier to expand and better to work with
which will bring many features that have been often requested, but impossible or hard to do with current code.

for example, things like:

• mod support
• different game version support (not much needed anymore, but whatever 😄 )
• saving production lines, including moved nodes
• default settings (and settings in general)
• user accounts (so you don't anymore accidentally clear your browser from your saved production lines)
• more optimisation targets (not just resouces) and more configuration around that
• sink points, power production
• and much more

obviously it's gonna take a long time and not all features will be available at the start, but I have high hopes for the rewrite 🙂

[oblique hollow]

yeah dont cheap out on pipeline pumps, use those as much as needed.

Unless by pump you meant watrr extractor

[topaz jetty]

Pipeline pums the hologram showed it was enough but then in practice, it was not enough

[oblique hollow]

Usually the hologram is right but you placed the very first pump wrong

[topaz jetty]

You can see the pumps on the pipeline in #screenshots

[topaz jetty]

Well the water was getting up, but it was not enough

[oblique hollow]

i dont know which pumps werent enough but i'll assume it was the bottom ones and you then added the ones on top?

[topaz jetty]

yup

[oblique hollow]

doesnt make much sense at that height, but eitherway you would probably need 2 pump sets anyway

remember to put the first pumps as low as possible

You do not wanna play a guessing game with water extractor head lift

[topaz jetty]

also the first array on the right was taking much longer to start but then i realised i placed mark 1 belts the entire way

and each set of eight needs 120/min input

Well i didnt even connect three of them

Makes sense since this setup took 2 hours

Probably the most expensive part was the mark 2 belts

[oblique hollow]

Yeah without proper automation of reinforced plates they are expensive

a simpler choice would have been to split the mk 2 belt into 2 mk 1 belts

[young relic]

I made a coal power factory I have 2 pure nodes of coal and have 8 coal power gens going with these and it still is over saturated is there possibly any idea how much relatively coal is needed per min for each coal power gen?

[wind spade]

the coal gen tells you how much coal it needs

[young relic]

Im planning on moving the coal power plant to a different section that has i believe 4 or more normal quality coal so trying to understand how many coal gens I can put down without wasting the coal, does it? Hmm weird I had a look before didn't notice it 😅

[wind spade]

top left, just below the amount of coal you have in the gen

[young relic]

Ah okay I will have a look once im back home mustve missed it from trying to quickly change power sources 😅 was on a time limit to look before my old power factory failed

Also does compacted coal still work with coal generators right?

[vapid gorge]

sure? it essentially just turns 1 sulfur to 1 coal though

may as well jsut find another coal node

[young relic]

Oh there is no benefit to using compacted coal aight

[vapid gorge]

I mean, it effectively turns a sulfur node to coal? To me there aren't enough sulfur nodes next to coal nodes next to water to make it worth it

[true junco]

Compacted coal and turbo fuel are entirely optional. Nobody "needs" to make either of those at all.

[primal flicker]

Unless "can feed more coal gens from a single Mk3 belt" is seen as a benefit.

[true junco]

I would like it if they would make compacted coal and turbofuel a bit more useful. Right now they are actually too balanced with the alternative of just ignoring them entirely.

Right now they feel like a trap because the ROI of both is about the same as just using more coal or oil or moving on from coal to oil, or from oil to nuclear.

[true junco]

That is valid. But not enough reason to use it imo.

[wind spade]

or "I have extra sulfur node here"

[young relic]

I dont have mk3 yet 😅

[topaz jetty]

That won’t work as the coal gens need 120 and there would have been a lot of spaghetti if I split it up

Can’t wait to get steel automated tomorrow so I can leave mk2 belts behind and enjoy my large steel beam production rate

As long as I can get the solid steel ingot alt since I don’t got enough coal to use the normal one and balance everything

[primal flicker]

Also valid.
And during coal power, all sulfur is extra imo. Nothing else to use it for, yet, and easily converted to black powder automation if you choose to do that.

[solid wadi]

Between normal wire and iron wire what is the best one efficiency wise

[primal flicker]

Efficiency of what?
Iron wire uses more buildings and A LOT more iron.
But iron is the most common ore, so it has a lower weighted cost.

Copper alloy ingots and fused wire are a winning combo imo.

[ruby prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/math-calculating-formulas-confused-little-girl-gif-19737617

[wind spade]

what kind of efficiency are we talking about?

[primal flicker]

@topaz jetty

[topaz jetty]

For the frames?

[primal flicker]

Not shown: bolted frames + bolted plates + steel screws

Which uses more ore but is a good combo.

[wind spade]

yeah wiki hides tons of paths. Better to check on your own

[topaz jetty]

Oh total iron

[primal flicker]

For low numbers, use whatever is most locally convenient.

[median heath]

+1 to "we need to remove that section"

[vapid estuary]

yeah, I got into it on Reddit with someone who thought the wiki was the Authoritative Source of Final Truth and "really, check the assumptions" fell on deaf ears. "but it takes up more space..."... yeah, because it assumes cast screw

[wind spade]

got a link? 🙂 I like to read arguments of those guys 😄

[primal flicker]

It also assumes iron wire for everything. Screw that.

[swift whale]

hey guys, just got into aluminium for the first time since update 3. been a long time. im looking at the alternate recipe with silica rn. and it is alot more per scrap. but is there anythign else this lategame that requires a ton of quartz? or can i just devote a good amount to the aluminium production

its always a tradeoff with the alts, but this one seems pretty good for very little effort

[deft lichen]

it's unlikely you'll run out of any given resource unless you're purposely making a maximum of something

so even if it eats a lot of quartz, it's fine

[vapid gorge]

you can if you choose use silica for nearly nothing

or use a lot

[swift whale]

im still setting up a computer factory to, and iirc one of the alt uses alot of silica for that one to

but there is so much, and ill have mk3 miners soon

[vapid gorge]

if you use Silica CB? sure

[swift whale]

thought so, specially if i overclock the miners right

[swift whale]

thats the one i was planning on yeah. wanted to do 40 computers PM

[vapid gorge]

but I wouldn't bother making hte silica alum unless the comps are next to it

[swift whale]

nah im still setting up the smaller production factories for the silica and other stuff

but aluminium isnt something your gonna be short on right. when it comes to the last tier stuff

[deft lichen]

future-proofing is hard and often avoidable, but I like to make central aluminum plants

just guess and if it'd seem too much, make less, you can always expand later

[median heath]

🙃

[deft lichen]

I play the game to have fun 😭

[median heath]

Future proofing is easy as fuck considering where the game starts 😉

[vapid gorge]

probably not - but I do enjoy making it entirely self contained

[wind spade]

@hard wind see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[young relic]

I probably shouldn't have connected the 2 coal factories on each end from the front of the factory (sand side) as they are struggling to run, due to lacking water 😅
4 normal coal nodes running on 2 mk.2 belts to each side

[oblique hollow]

well... you are exceeding pipe capacity

7 generators need 315/min water

[young relic]

yeee I calculated it saw that, thought why not connect each side with 3 pumps to realise at the end that won't help when the pipes can't allow for more then 300

[oblique hollow]

you need to connect the pipe from both ends

a single pipe SEGMENT cant do more than 300

that doesnt mean that putting 240/min in on one end of the generators and 120/min on the other end wouldnt work

you need just 3 extractors to feed 8 generators

if you have mk 2 belts you can easily supply 8 generators off of one mk 2 belt

[young relic]

yea I will do that I didn't think of that at first 😅 I just put them all on one side then realised that wouldn't work but will change it up

that is true 🤔 idk what I did but I messed up my math somewhere along the line

[sullen sage]

am i high or is that math correct?

noway i can power that many fuel generators

[oblique hollow]

without turbo alone its already 266.66 fuel generators

[sullen sage]

100% and 250% is swaped at the end

nearly 1k generators

[oblique hollow]

if you build this many you are actually a lunatic

[sullen sage]

this is exploding bigger than i expected

i build everything up untill the genreators rn.

Just need to get the coal and sulfur with trains

[oblique hollow]

its closer to 600 however

normal turbofuel recipe, right?

[sullen sage]

deluted etc

[sullen sage]

yea

Heavy oil Residue / deluted Fuel and that one

[oblique hollow]

2666.666 turbofuel

592.592592592 Fuel generators

they use 4.5/min

[sullen sage]

ah i got a typo on the turbo fuel outpot

i looked at a different recepi

[oblique hollow]

600 generators also is already a stupidly large number

wouldnt ever recommend actually building that

[sullen sage]

well

i started it. Might as well finish xD

[oblique hollow]

and using a third of all the sulfur in the world also isnt great

[sullen sage]

it all started with "we have a couple oil lets use half it of for power"....

[oblique hollow]

should have just went with diluted fuel

and called it at that

[sullen sage]

i forgot to calculated how many fuel gens that will actualy feed

[oblique hollow]

12 fuel per generator

its 266.666 generators for 3200 fuel

the piping alone is a nightmare at that level

[sullen sage]

wiki says 11,25

[oblique hollow]

what

link the page

aw damn it

[sullen sage]

smh

famdom

[oblique hollow]

just remove the actual link part

[oblique hollow]

oh TURBO

[sullen sage]

yea

[oblique hollow]

i was talking about fuel

[sullen sage]

ah

[oblique hollow]

NORMAL fuel

at 100% speed

[sullen sage]

yea normal is 12 without clocking

[oblique hollow]

106 generators at 250% is more than enough

dont forget that you need like 320 power shards for that alone

[sullen sage]

got like 160 rn .. xD

first time doing turbo. This is beyond what i expected in size ngl

[topaz jetty]

Well looking at the wiki, 1 fully over clocked crude oil node that is 1 mk2 pipe to 20GW seems crazy to me

[wind spade]

standard diluted fuel

[median heath]

Oil * 2/9 = Generators.
When using Diluted.

[cerulean stratus]

Is there a tool that breaks down recipes into their ore/min

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/

[cerulean stratus]

yeah you have to go trial and error with that one though

[vapid gorge]

unless you have a whole chain of recipes from start to finish you can't just say how much ore any recipe takes? 1 change changes teh whole thing

[cerulean stratus]

what?

[vapid gorge]

well you asked a break down of a recipe by how much ore it takes right?

So lets say you're using a Heavy Modular Frame recipe and all base recipes means it uses like 150 iron ore pm

But what if you change to iron alloy?

any recipe beyond ore processing doesn't have a 'ore per minute' that never changes

[cerulean stratus]

well, yeah

[vapid gorge]

So SF tools lets you choose the whole chain to see how much ore pm you need

Like it's impossible to know how much ore/coal pm in total you need for this recipe unless you choose every single recipe before it

[cerulean stratus]

Fine I guess I'll do my own excel

[vapid gorge]

... just use tools. It does that for you

[cerulean stratus]

I am using tools

[vapid gorge]

do you have any idea how many variations there will be? Every new recipe creates a new branch. Thousands.

[cerulean stratus]

it works fine until it doesn't work for what I need

[vapid gorge]

what isn't working?

[cerulean stratus]

Well, if I want to know if I should use steel or pipes for the beams, it would be helpful

[vapid gorge]

you don't even need tools for that one if you want. 2 step math problem - but just so you know Encased Pipe uses 1/3 less steel - it probably uses fewer total machines and power too but haven't checked

but you could just swap out the recipes to find out in tools

base recipes

1 recipe swap

[cerulean stratus]

I know

I was just expecting there to already be something like this before

that automatically chooses the best recipe

[vapid gorge]

Just for HMF there's probably 1000 variations.

You'd have to have huge spread sheets and look at variant A, b c d blah blah blah

[vapid gorge]

well there really isn't best recipes - they all swap different things out. Best depends what someone needs at any moment

that's kinda the beauty of the game

Encased Pipes is kinda an exception

[cerulean stratus]

and solid steel ingots

[vapid gorge]

but considering it'll probably be changed on release it doesn't matter

[cerulean stratus]

and just taking silica out of aluminum

[vapid gorge]

Ish - uses more power and machines/space

[vapid gorge]

taking silica out of aluminium gives you less solution

and more machines I think

there's very very few current recipes that are outright better. Encased pipes? Sure. Solid steel is a close one.

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah a lot of them are a bit weird

[vapid gorge]

like?

[cerulean stratus]

"Hey, wanna make wire with caterium instead?"

[vapid gorge]

Sure. If you have caterium nearby you aren't using? fantastic recipe

[median heath]

Caterium Wire ftw.

Fucking love that recipe.

[vapid gorge]

Fused Wire is cool too

[median heath]

Literally the Steel Screw of Wire recipes.

[cerulean stratus]

I just feel like I lose a lot of time wondering which recipe is the best

[vapid gorge]

wrong way to think about it - look at what and where you want to do something and work out what recipe is best for you in that situation

[wind spade]

there's no "best"

Tools solve for lowest resource cost (using weighted resources), so they do resource efficiency

[median heath]

greeny will save you a bunch of time with his answer.

[wind spade]

but "best" for resource efficiency is different than "best" for power efficiency

[vapid gorge]

or logistics

[cerulean stratus]

wait using weighted resources?

[wind spade]

yeah

[median heath]

Globally weighted*
Key clarification.

[cerulean stratus]

no wonder some of the alts I'd put weren't showing

thanks greeny

[vapid gorge]

my way around that is swap out recipes - so force it to only use that recipe

[wind spade]

technically weighted by a number
just can't change the number in UI 😦

[vapid gorge]

best way to plan for locations that way imo

[wind spade]

you're not selecting "use this alt", you're selecting "I have this alt available"

[vapid gorge]

and there's got to be some way the tool decides what to use if you give it more than 1 option right?

[median heath]

Getting Tools to use Iron Alloy is such a workaround it's proof greeny is biased against great recipes 😄

[cerulean stratus]

damn you thought of everything

[wind spade]

it even says so in the tool 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

biased against you

[median heath]

Shows you how often Tools prefers to select Cast Screw.

[wind spade]

honestly cast screws and normal screws (without other alts) look the same for Tools and the fact it picks cast over normal is just pure black magic and I have no idea why

[median heath]

There is no building count variable?

[wind spade]

no

because you can't optimise for multiple things unless you weight them

so you'd have to say how much is one building (and which kind) compared to one iron ore

[median heath]

Hmmm...

Oh - could it just be an alphabetical thing?
Not that the code cares about the alphabet, but you could have just listed Cast a couple lines ahead in the registry so it just gets to that one first, hence the preference?

[wind spade]

I could give it really low value, e.g. 0.00001 x number of buildings, so that it doesn't mess with resource optimisation, but it changes how two equal branches are compared

personally I think there's something in the linear solver that just in these cases picks whatever uses less variables, which translates to essentially less steps

[median heath]

Fair.

[tulip egret]

if its possible there should be an option for power saving and space saving plans

[median heath]

I agree with only the second point.

[tulip egret]

Why not first?

[vapid gorge]

power is a weird choice to minimize since there's more available on the map than you can possibly use - but eh sure whatever

[tulip egret]

Early factories/produce lines it would help

[vapid gorge]

.... not really? your options in alts then are very low and you'll want a few nodes dedicated to coal power in any case

[median heath]

You can search for how many times I have said:
"If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong."

[tulip egret]

Eh fair. ok nvm maybe not power saving

[tulip egret]

I get it now! thanks

[median heath]

So often to where if I type "If po" on my phone, it auto-completes.

[vapid gorge]

It's totally a goal you can work towards - it's a sandbox game , people make up their own minds. If power savings is your goal? do it.

Practically though it's not really much of an issue.

Like I build in circles all over the place. Totally don't need to do that. You do you

The space option? a bit more generally practical as volume has big impacts on aesthetics and design

[median heath]

people make up their own minds

This is objectively false.

@vapid gorge how dare you suggest people can have fun the way they want to.

😛

[tulip egret]

Well now ik what the name means

[vapid gorge]

#design-and-architecture message

[thorn bane]

they real value of space savings is that it relates to fps very well. low space needed pretty much means better fps
i actually did a playthrough with that but the calculator i used is sadly down :(

[primal flicker]

Beta version of tools still does that (or at least machine count) but over time you just learn which recipes to choose.

[tulip egret]

Im really bad with having bigger numbers then my belts can handle

[wind spade]

don't put all things on one belt 🤷‍♂️

[tulip egret]

im a making a 24 motor a min factory but i need 1200 screws per min going into assembler rotors and idk how to like split them correctly into 12 assemblers

wait omg im slow...

[wind spade]

make them in front of assemblers

don't merge them all, check out how much one machine makes, how much one needs and pair them in some nice ratio

[tulip egret]

I dont like these numbers but it works

[primal flicker]

Consider this:

[runic shoal]

i think i broke the tools website https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qGhXophBTTRcirQgcQyd

[tulip egret]

wdym

[runic shoal]

i was trying to calculate how much coke ide need for the electrode scrap for my SE T1 build and i put it in as already made items and it still shows in the production line as still needed

[runic shoal]

follow the chain for oil and notice how the HOR turns into petrolium coke dispite it being added under "materials already produced"

[median heath]

Is 24 specifically what you're shooting for, or is "24ish" fine?

[tulip egret]

24 ish is cool I just tried to use the least amount of decimal numbers i could

[median heath]

Do I have limitations on Alt Recipes for Rotors?

[tulip egret]

Nope

[median heath]

22.5

26.25

(Based on input requirements of this design, which outputs 3.75/min)
So 22.5 is 6 of these, 26.25 is 7.

[tulip egret]

hmm. I might do the second option.

Thanks sev apprieciate the help

[median heath]

I love me some clean numbers 🙂

[median heath]

I will say, start here:

How you make the Ingots isn't relevant.
So feel free to us Pure recipes, Solid/Coke Steel, etc.

[wind spade]

Since you have the byproduct HOR anyway, tools made coke from it

[topaz jetty]

Wtf?!

This is only supposed to be bringing in 240/min

Question is why the hell is it not backed Up?

I only have one Mk3 belt on the output and it is constantly flowing

Which would make sense if my factory took 270/min but as i said, it only takes 240

[median heath]

Question is why are you putting stock in the most unreliable UI element the game has?

[topaz jetty]

What is the Chance it is bringing in at least 300/min

[oblique hollow]

What even is that

a truck? a train?

[median heath]

If you're delivering 240, and nothing on the receiving end is yellow-lighted, it is bringing in exactly 240.

[topaz jetty]

A tractor

[topaz jetty]

Well it has a LOT in storage

[runic shoal]

That's used to make the plastic needed for other things but I figured it out

[feral vine]

I am about to make a plastic and rubber factory I am wondering what to do with the byproduct heavy oil residue, make it into fuel but my factory will eventually stop because I don't have any means to use it yet or use petroleum coke formula to put it in coal generators or simply sink it?

(I don't have packagers too) "yet"

Crickey, I already got my answer

I'm gonna sink the petroleum coke until I get fuel generators

Any better suggestions?

[true junco]

For your very 1st plastic/rubber. It is a good idea to convert the HOR into Coke and burn it for power. I wouldnt over build at that point. Just enough to get to higher tech, unlock alt recipes and start setting up more effective refinerment and fuel power.

[amber umbra]

Simplest way to make it “just work” is heavy oil residue to petroleum coke then sink it.

[feral vine]

I opt for power, thanks!

Got plenty of water nearby

It's going to pay for itself lol

in terms of power

[true junco]

Definitely recommended because this is when you start needing a lot more power because refineries need a lot of power.

[feral vine]

My 4 gigawatts is cute by comparison

Alright thanks!

Looks like this idk if it's too much but I'm going with that

Thank you wiki

[amber umbra]

Looks like a good initial oil setup.

[topaz jetty]

Boy do manifolds take a sec to start up

but it should work... in theory

[pulsar valve]

It does work in reality

[feral vine]

They do, but gets going eventually

[topaz jetty]

Of course its not like satisfactory tools can be wrong

[pulsar valve]

The only thing that could have went wrong is you building it wrong

[topaz jetty]

By this I meant if i didnt screw up something while building

exactly!

[pulsar valve]

You took quite some space there

[topaz jetty]

Ah well i saved this entire floor for it

[pulsar valve]

Well it is better than 🍝 but my factories are usually pretty crowded

How many hours do you have?

[topaz jetty]

In total?

[pulsar valve]

Yeah

[topaz jetty]

29 so far

Most of which i got in this save

23 to be exact

[pulsar valve]

Well it looks pretty good for that

[topaz jetty]

You have no Idea how much worse my steel factory is...

I hid it and resolved to NEVER do that again

[median heath]

Prefeed for instantaneous startup and stabilization.

[topaz jetty]

It is also very tall (76m to be exact) I can see it from 1 km away

it is functional anyway

[median heath]

Steel:

[topaz jetty]

That is more that 5 times my amount of foundries

[median heath]

None of those are Refineries?

[topaz jetty]

I have zero idea why i typed refineries

[pulsar valve]

My hand hurts

I cant polute the planet

[topaz jetty]

Now I just need 60 iron to make it even taller

and produce some versatile framework

Okay the bottom left is the Iron that i need for my production and in the top left is my factory ... over 500 meters away. how do I get the Iron there?

[median heath]

There's these things called belts.

[topaz jetty]

*without making a large eyesore

[median heath]

Eyesore is subjective.

*pick a different iron node then.

[topaz jetty]

And a long ass belt is a eyesore for me

[topaz jetty]

The other option is even farther

And I could setup a tractor but how do i fuel it?

The nearest coal nodes are over that cliff there

[topaz jetty]

Done.😑

I covered the belts with small frame pillars

[wind spade]

build factory near nodes

[topaz jetty]

The factory is already built and when i was building it i wasnt planning to need as much iron

[wind spade]

how do you need more iron suddenly, if you planned it needs less? 🤔

[topaz jetty]

I didnt originally plan to make space elevator parts here

but then i thought getting more iron is better than shipping out everything with tractors

[wind spade]

even better is just building near the iron nodes

[topaz jetty]

Cant just move the factory can I?

[wind spade]

well no, but when you decided "I'm gonna build more, so I need more iron", then instead build the "more" near those new iron nodes

[topaz jetty]

Well a lo of the parts i need are in the aformentioned factory

and thus i would need to ship them there anyways

[wind spade]

well in the approach I'm suggesting, you make everything from scratch

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency

so you never have factory making things for other factory, all things you make go to storage

[topaz jetty]

The problem is I need coal for the steel and there aint no coal anywhere near the iron

[wind spade]

well then find a place where it's near 😄

[topaz jetty]

*that isnt being used by the factory

[wind spade]

there's 30k coal on the map, I doubt you're using it all

[median heath]

What is wrong with this coal near this iron?

[topaz jetty]

Being used by the powerplant

and that is not the iron node either

[median heath]

Sounds like you should find not-near-iron coal for that.

[median heath]

That is A iron node near 4 coal nodes.

Literally where my current Steel production is.

[topaz jetty]

and i can overclock it to get the iron but i cant seperate it

Currently producing 240/min and i need 60 more

[median heath]

@muted loom

[muted loom]

OMG THANKS

thats... really cheap

[feral vine]

after 4 intensive hours I still need to build 1 last floor where the coal generator are going to burn the coke!

[primal flicker]

Arrested for coke generation

[primal flicker]

Why not:?

[median heath]

Many, MANY assumptions on what alts they do an do not have available.

Mine was constructed based on their target goal of 2, and the recipes they stated they had.

[primal flicker]

Accessibility, in other words. Got it. (Stupid slowmode... ⏳)

[subtle cave]

okay people said i should ask here:
how do the pipes and the water physics work (pipes,pumps,fluid buffers)

[vapid gorge]

out of curiosity - which people?

[median heath]

Fluid flow through pipe.
If go up, use pump.
If not go up, no pump.
Never use Buffer or Valve.

👍

[vapid gorge]

1.keep pipes simple - if point B needs X fluid pm? send it from point A without merging and splitting to other systems.
2.dont split fluid manifolds over multiple floors/elevations. You have a factory that needs fluid on multiple floors? make an independent manifold for each
3.Have a manifold loop. At the end of the manifold loop the pipe back to the start of the manifold so it feeds both ends
4.Pre flood the system - have like 1 machine on at 50% until every pipe and machine is full and then crank up that last machine to normal

These aren't 'you must do this always' rules, most are flexible if you know what you're doing

but I find that these rules work for any situation

[subtle cave]

signpostM

[oblique hollow]

pipe fill
filled pipe try to push to neighbor
if neighbor less full than pipe - pipe fill neighbor
if neighbor more full than pipe - neighbor fill pipe

[median heath]

@vapid gorge plz...

Never use Buffer or Valve.
At least add this if you're going to use that many words to begin with 😭

[vapid gorge]

you covered it 😛

[subtle cave]

okay so what if the pump says over recomended head flow?

and it movs?

[median heath]

People presented with multiple options usually just read their favorite and ignore all other information.

[median heath]

How far over?

[subtle cave]

1.00m

[median heath]

1. Why are you tempting fate?
2. If it works, it works.
3. Just stay within recommended.

[subtle cave]

okay now i know that if a pump goes over recomended then it needs another pump upstream

[vapid gorge]

the wording of that is unclear - don't put a pump over the head lift limit at all

[subtle cave]

but it works so no changeing it now!

[hard wind]

Is there a guide for best production locations?

[median heath]

Yes.

It reads "best is subjective."

End of guide.

[hard wind]

XD makes sense, thank you

[vapid gorge]

The details are that there are so many alts and preferences for how to build and move things that it’s really up to you.

If you just want a spot with lots of node variety in close proximity? East swamp or north central cliffs.

[hard wind]

Yeah, I meant that, I didn't specify. I'm trying to locate a good nodes location to set up a fuel generator factory to increase power

[vapid gorge]

Ah - well really anywhere there is oil. +water if you have the diluted fuel alt.

The north coast nodes might be a good choice as there’s fewer other resource types. That way you could use other oil for plastic / rubber

[median heath]

North or West.
Both areas pretty much exclusively have only oil + water.

[vapid gorge]

The west has some nodes pretty conveniently nearby in comparison

[hard wind]

Thank you both! It's going to be a hell of a journey to connect it to the main grid since I spawned in the desert

[median heath]

Power Towers.

[hard wind]

Thank you again!

[hard wind]

Is worth using residual plastic/rubber recipe? It looks I have to use a lot of oil to use those recipes when with the standard one I can save oil

[magic island]

residual rubber is the most efficient way to make use of byproduct resin

and you'll get resin if you use the HOR recipe, which is a very powerful option

a good general setup is to start with the HOR recipe, turn the HOR into fuel, turn the resin into rubber, and then use some of that fuel to recycle the rubber back and forth into the desired amount of rubber/plastic

[hard wind]

Residual rubber you mean the one you use the water in the recipe?

[magic island]

yes

[hard wind]

Thing is I don't have fuel generators and don't even have the packager for package fuel

[magic island]

oh, I see.

well, the way oil progresses, you won't be able to create the "best" setups until you unlock some more things in the upgrade tree. but once everything's available, that's one way you might use the residual recipes

[hard wind]

Yeah, I just have to unlock all the milestones and then reconfigure the setup

[median heath]

In a vacuum, no.
But none of the oil recipes should be looked at in a vacuum.

They all connect and cross.
That's kind of what T5-6 is all about, teaching you byproducts and teaching you cross-line logistical strategies.

[feral vine]

LOL good one

[rotund fjord]

hello, I'm having an issue with my 100/m battery factory, my pipes are getting backed up with water and I'm not really sure how to fix it

the problem is coming from here, I right pipe is taking 75 water out of a refinery making aluminum scrap which is being combined with a pipe from a water extractor which is limited to 450 water, but it seems like the pipe is getting backed up because the aluminum scrap refinery is getting filled with water

[amber umbra]

It seems like the issue is due to the Al water recylcing part rather than the batteries specifically?

[rotund fjord]

yes it's because of the water recycling, the water is getting backed up in this pipe

[amber umbra]

Generally Al production is a bit confusing, so you definitely want to avoid linking Al fluids to other production lines (batteries).

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/yp7cxu/stable_starter_aluminum_factory_plan_default/ I like this style of Al production rather than using VOIP.

[rotund fjord]

no I'm not linking any production chains to anything, this is all one factory, isolated from everything else and it's sole purpose is to make batteries

[rotund fjord]

doing this kind of thing just isn't possible with my settup, I don't make enough water byproduct to have an isolated line, maybe with underclocking but then space becomes an issue

[amber umbra]

Just giving helpful link. Idk how you're doing the setup exactly but afaik the Al water recycling solutions are broadly applicable to batteries.

[rotund fjord]

I think I fixed it, just connected the 450/m pipe to the end of the chain and left the 75/m one exactly where it was and it seems to have eliminated the backlog

actually nvm I lied it's somehow still broken

[median heath]

@rotund fjord kill the valve. You don't need it, and they don't work how people think the work.

What you need is a VIP.

Bottom pipe is recycled, top pipe is fresh.

In game example.
Red = Recycled.
Blue = Fresh.

Pumps do have to be powered.

[rotund fjord]

ok thank you, I'll try that out if I run into any more problems

[median heath]

👍

[junior aurora]

I know the hate against valves in this forum, but let's say IF, we replaced the pump with a valve. The same function would be performed right? Given the pump here is doing the same one-way flow effect and not being used for headlift?

If not, why not?

[median heath]

No it would not.

Why not? Because Valves aren't Pumps.

[vapid gorge]

it's not weird to hate things that offer no benefit and break systems

[junior aurora]

Indeed, it isnt. But instead of unilaterally saying the valve is terrible and should not be used, I'm asking in the sense that this seems to be the exact and only case that valves can perform right now. As a one way control and just that

[median heath]

This is a VIP.

The sole usecase of Valves is in the VOP.

Different system.

[vapid gorge]

except it isn't. There are no real uses for valves other than a VOP
And VOPs can basically always be avoided needing to be used

[junior aurora]

Hmm. Ok i gotta do a try to convince myself. Thanks regardless

[languid python]

What is wrong with using them tho

[viral ravine]

They dont give you any benefits in 99% of situations and ontop of that might break systems

As said above the only scenario where valve is applicable is a VOP

[true junco]

The other use case where valves do work is isolating fluid storage. It works tho the intent of storage is arguably entirely unnecessary, but its no different than building power storages. Ie. The arguement against storing fuel is identical to the arguement against building power storages.

[true junco]

They dont work the way most people intuitively think they work. Page 10 of the pipe manual explains it well enough, but omits the part about how the flow rate setting is a range of discrete values which causes other issues.

The discrete value issue is the first thing explained on the wiki page for valves.

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Valve

[oblique hollow]

Dont assume that they arent used for head lift here

VIPs are pure jank and using valves does not yield the same result

Janky systems have janky requirements

[chrome saffron]

looks like what your have here is a check-valve type system?

[oblique hollow]

That is a priority input system

where one pipe receives priority over the other

[true junco]

VIPs are dependent on the headlift of the incoming pipes. hence why valves dont do anything if substituted for the pumps in a VIP. (i guess anyways)

that said. the VIP configuration i use in my Aluminum BPs dont involve any pumps either. and they work... (there is a pump at the water source tho. and the refinery output of the waste water has its own headlift, so i assume thats why it still works.

[vapid gorge]

much simpler to have power storage and more stable since you'll have a constant flow plus yo ucan use storage in concert with switches anywhere in the world

[misty lodge]

heavy modular frame/computer factory /w some extra item buffer for when i need the stuff, basically my main factory (modded)

[viral ravine]

🍝

[misty lodge]

massive ass coal factory lol

getting that thing running took like 3 hours ngl

[viral ravine]

Whats the buffer for?

[misty lodge]

im using modded mk2 coal generators which need x3 as much water but are 3x more powerful and i have 12 so just doing it through one pipe was absolutely impossible so that was my solution

[viral ravine]

How does a buffer help? It still has a single pipe input does it.not?

[misty lodge]

nah it has multiple inputs

[viral ravine]

Though i guess i cant speak for mods, in vanilla the buffers are useless outside of train stations hence i asked

[misty lodge]

i was inputting just enough to max out the transfer and then switching to another input and 2 other water extractors

each input has 2 water extractors

i dunno it might not have been necessary in retrospect

i also had to input the water like this

1 output per 2 coal generators

using 6 outputs

[viral ravine]

I will stay in vanilla 😅

[misty lodge]

ngl it took me a while to figure out

i noticed that i was litter maxxing my transfer filling 2 generators and it was absolutely impossible to fill any more but i had plenty of water to work with and like a million pumps

its just the issue is that with what i was doing vanilla transfer for all of the coal generators at once was not enough

but it does make 3600mw thoooo sooooo

id say it was def worth all the fucking around

also yes i have a stupidly large inventory

fight me

heres my carbon steel beam plant, its actually really cool its a modded steel processing chain where you contruct coal into carbon and then foundry the carbon with ingots for extra yield, its like a middleground between direct iron ingot and coal to steel before you unlock that because its not as good as that but its also better than iron plus coal regular foundry

[misty lodge]

also you may spaghetti react me but that is the heartfelt honest to god 2 hour redesign from square one from the early game MESS i had that is a litteral improvement as messy as it looks its also organized in its own way, the factory reflects my own brain

[viral ravine]

I mean spaghetti reaction isnt an insult in any way

Its stating what we see

[little elk]

your carbon steel beam plant and heavy modular frame plant give off funpark vibes (fun rollercoasters and organized islands of fun) or jurassic park vibes (caged machines to watch and study them). love it 😄

[ember fractal]

I just finished a big aluminum project last night. It produces 9600 alum ingots.

I built a horizontal train line across the whole map roughly in the middle, and bringing all bauxite together to be processed at once.

[primal flicker]

For what end products?

[ember fractal]

For to make casings and clad sheets

[primal flicker]

For...

[ember fractal]

Sheets for batteries and casings for fused mod frames and radio control units

[primal flicker]

Are you doing plutonium processing? Don't forget casings for that.

[simple willow]

help please (sin +cos)/cos^2

aaaa

[wind spade]

that's not related to satisfactory

[primal flicker]

Don't need that math at all in SF

[simple willow]

i thought like at all math

thank you

[wind spade]

have you read the channel description?

[simple willow]

im sorry

[vestal terrace]

Trigonometry?! shudders in pain

[true junco]

Mmmmm... Calculus.....

[pulsar valve]

Gat that graph flat NOW

[misty lodge]

Impossible with windmills tbh lol

[pulsar valve]

Windmills?

[misty lodge]

Those thinfs fluctuate from making like 20 to 150

Yeah I'm doing modded

[pulsar valve]

Oh

Yeah nvm then

[misty lodge]

I have like 30 windmills ans they constantly change how much rheyremaking lol

[misty lodge]

Eventually tjo it'll look flat once I'm making enough

[pulsar valve]

But that shouldn´t be your main poer source then

[misty lodge]

It isn't it was just something I put down so my fuse wouldn't flipped with all the power I needed to setup my coal plant

[noble timber]

😋

[misty lodge]

Then Eben before that I had an early game gas setup making avout 2k

[pulsar valve]

Wait you german?

[misty lodge]

No

[pulsar valve]

okay

[misty lodge]

My power is actually really good rn my first few playthroughs I wasn't making more than my max consumption now I am

[pulsar valve]

I will have to start over in a few days again

My friends want to get the game at Steam Sale which is in about 4 days

[misty lodge]

Yeeee I'm gonna be starting a new one with my bf if his computer runs it

[frigid cloak]

Why is my refinery struggling to fuel 3 fuel generators when the refinery is doing 100 fuel when the generators need only 30 with a straight line pipe system

[pulsar valve]

Good luck then

[misty lodge]

How is your transfer? Do you hsve pumps?

[pulsar valve]

How long has the system been running for?

[misty lodge]

Are you sending it upwards?

[frigid cloak]

Was 2 mins

[frigid cloak]

Just a straight line

[pulsar valve]

It takes some tiem to fill up. It is a manifold isnt it

[frigid cloak]

Whats the manifolds again

[misty lodge]

If it's a super long straight like sometimes you'll still need a pump or 2 but yeah it does take some time too

[pulsar valve]

When you input the items you need per minute and just split half of them up at every machine. That way you don't have to balance every belt but the machines take some time to fill up

@frigid cloak

[misty lodge]

this is finally getting to keep constantly going hgeh

[pulsar valve]

What is that unclean conveyor in the background? Coulnd't have that in my world...

||YK my world is spaghetti||

[misty lodge]

i dunno is it really that bad LMFAOOO people keep saying its spaghetti when i was litterally trying to reorganize it 🧌

its just my plastic coming in feeding into my manu and the assembler making circuit boards

[pulsar valve]

reorganize?

How bad was it before?

[misty lodge]

i duno its a lot better than what i had LOL i didnt even have walking paths before

[pulsar valve]

And where are those cannisters going?

[misty lodge]

so youd go up the elevator and be blocked my machine sand belts

[pulsar valve]

First picture right side

left side

[misty lodge]

oh yeah i forgot to delete that thanks lol, that was just creatingf packaged fuel i made like a mass backlog of it so id basically never need to make anymore

[pulsar valve]

I would suggest you just lead every item your produce out, make a storage and then cover this up and never look back again

[misty lodge]

AHAHAHA im curious to see what you think of the base floor making the base components if you think that then LMFAO i think the base floor looks a bit better tho actually

[pulsar valve]

It organized chaos

[misty lodge]

it just makes the rotors reinforced places, screws, wires and cables

fast enough that i can also make engines, computers, modular frames and heavy modular frames all at once

that was my goal

in one factory

steel stuff i drone in

aw shit its not masking rotors fast enough to create a backlog

[misty lodge]

Time to upgrade the machines lol.mm

Ngl i know it's pointless and redundant to add more tiers and faster stuff but my brain loves it

[pulsar valve]

I hate and love that factory at the same time

[hard wind]

Is it better to use turbofuel or normal fuel for fuel generators?

[primal flicker]

No.

They're both good. They both give you power. If you want to make the effort of doing turbofuel, go ahead and do that. It's the same amount of generator spam for the same amount of power in the end.

[hard wind]

Yeah, thank you

[median heath]

Diluted.

[wet fern]

i cooked a super compact 9x9 balancer cuz i didnt see much about making them before

i also have 2x2 3x3 4x4 6x6 if anyone wants them

[vapid gorge]

putting the right number on belts in the first place is often simpler and more compact

or clocking hte machines to use what's on the belts and then merging them after

[median heath]

Balancers

Also omg the clipping

[topaz jetty]

The big question: how do i move a bunch of plastic and rubber this distance?

[vapid gorge]

belt truck train drones - all options

[topaz jetty]

Well hell no to belts and im in t5

so only option is truck

The problem is the oil is on an island and you see that cluster of iron nodes? that is my main base

Really this setup is only temporary since once i have trains ill just use those

Another thing: anyone got any numbers for a fuel power setup with 240 crude oil/min?

[fierce cypress]

you'll need more info, what recipes

[topaz jetty]

Just normal fuel

i plan on expanding it with diluted fuel once i have the blender

[fierce cypress]

all default will give you this

best recipies this

[topaz jetty]

Okay exactly 2GW

[vapid gorge]

Why? Lay a temp belt down, or a train

[topaz jetty]

This literally for a computer plant so that i can get trains

trains are the actual plan

Just im not going to bother with running that long belt

How much is a healthy amount of computers and heavy modular frames to produce?

why is it showing the empty canisters as byproduct? the plastic should be right?

[oblique hollow]

Trucks, but drive along the coast

Thats what i did for exactly that spot

Belt the stuff you need over to the coast, then use trucks

Smart splitters help a lot as you can set up a sorting system so you can move it all in one truck if you dont make a lot of items/min

[oblique hollow]

Should be plastic but tools does funny stuff with byproducts sometimes

[wind spade]

Can use diluted packaged fuel

[rose breach]

What ist the best hight for a logistics floor?

[wind spade]

Depends what you want to do in it

[uncut pawn]

@okurimono748

But let's do the math cus we can
Lets say you are going to automate Iron Ingots, Copper ingots and coal mining with your 1 biomass burner, That'll take 27/30MW of the power, you can put a bunch of portable miners on a limestone and coal node and thats your limestone and coal covered, you would produce 30 Iron ingots a minute, 30 copper ingots a minute and 30 coal a minute.
1 smart plate requires 23.25 Iron Ingots
1 Versatile framework requires 12 Iron Ingots and 24 Steel ingots.
Finally one automated wiring costs 24 Copper ingots and 4.5 steel ingots/min

With those numbers you can craft enough resources to make around 1.3 smart plates a min, 0.8 Versatile framework a min and 1.25 automated wiring a min.

So that will take around 1250 mins just to produce the items to make the final parts. With basic recipes it would then take a further 390 mins to produce.

With a singular biomass burner it will take 240 minutes to unlock basic and advanced steel production.

This means that it will take 1880 mins, Aka 1 day 7 hours and 20 mins to get to phase 3 with a singular biomass burner.

@viral ravine ^^

Ping failed

[topaz jetty]

That looks heavily modded

[hard wind]

Yeah, thank you. I know it's better to use that recipe, the question was it's it was worth using the turbofuel or not

[primal flicker]

That's up to you. There is plenty of oil on the map, that it's never necessary to use turbo.
But fun is subjective. If you would have fun building it, then build it.

[viral ravine]

You can overclock the burner for more power too

[topaz jetty]

My power grid is teetering on the edge

And i still have not built my computer factory so no fuel gens for me

So time to expand my coal powerplant, give myself 2.4GW to work with

[primal flicker]

Don't tempt fate.
Go for 3.6GW.

[topaz jetty]

Yeah i could but building the original plant was difficult enough thankfully,i have blueprints this time

[primal flicker]

I find coal pretty easy to build. Guess I've just done it enough times. Of course location matters.

[topaz jetty]

the big issue is some damn arches are blocking me

[primal flicker]

Between RD and NF?

Gotta line up your first foundations to avoid those.

[topaz jetty]

ill send a screenshot in a min

[primal flicker]

The DD coast is actually ideal. One pure and one normal node next to each other, long straight coastline. Easy to lay a single row of 48 generators.

[topaz jetty]

Im doing four rows, 8 apiece

Boy do blueprints help

[primal flicker]

I will have to tinker with coal gen BP more. I don't like to bp them because I prefer to maintain 8m cramming.

[topaz jetty]

Just had to replace and entire row of gens Thank god for blueprints!

[delicate pivot]

@topaz jetty i have a few screenshots of my 64 coal gen setup that you may pull some inspiration from, same location, i use those arches as a divider.

[topaz jetty]

Im practically copying my previous setup over but might be an inspiration for future setups

Here#screenshots message

[delicate pivot]

ah yeah, i remember looking at that and giving you a few tips a couple days ago

[topaz jetty]

That previous one took a long time to build but now i just blueprinted up this one and it took me all of 10 mins to get the coal gens built and all the belt and pipe work done

now i just need to build the water extractors

[delicate pivot]

mine has a road in the middle, and walkways to traverse the power plant. i didnt blueprint it because well.... it didnt exist 2 years ago lol. i had to design mine as I went.

but i feel ya, those arches are a pain to work around when you want to just plop stuff down. hopefully you find a solution to your space issue.

[uncut pawn]

Yea, but that would mean doing extra math.

[primal flicker]

×2.5 😱

[uncut pawn]

Yea but then I need to do extra calculations and then that would prolly allow enough MWs to add a couple of constructors in so also calculating that and thats effort

[primal flicker]

You could also calculate underclocking everything at 10% to squeeze out more production...

[uncut pawn]

I cant just divide the total time by 2.5 because that would mean using the extra resources to increase what I set up linearly which would be dumb. Why produce 60 copper ingots a min when you dont need it and you need more iron.

[uncut pawn]

Im just assuming they dont have that researched

[topaz jetty]

4.8 GW of coal online!

which only leaves me with 1.8 GW of free power😢

[median heath]

4.8 will get you to T7-8, easy.

[regal oasis]

I want to get the coal to my base station to make steel.. Now i built a truck station AND a truck.. Didnt realise it needed fuel.. I just boarded my vehicle

but i'm stuck in it

cant leave...

i can only turn the wheels 😵

wrong sub

[magic island]

fortunately, your cargo also makes for an extremely convenient vehicle fuel

split some of the coal into the station's fuel hopper and you're in business

[median heath]

Both the tractor and the truck stop descriptions mention the need for fuel though...?

[primal flicker]

And don't forget to run power to both truck stops.

[regal oasis]

Yes i understand, but i meant the game was bugged because i could not exit the vehicle. 😉

[true junco]

Ah. Well that is a different problem. 😆

[wheat fog]

Hey, I am pretty new to Satisfactory, i reached tier 4 two times and both times stopped, i want to start again but this time i need to know how you deal with my problem.

I try to be pretty accurate, calculating available resources, needed resources to get a optimal factory. Pretty demanding for my head 😄 Thats why i am glad that i found some calculator online to do this for me. Now the next problem. the Calculator says: 3,5 iron ingot go to (a) 4,1 iron ingot go to (b) and 16,7 go to (c) (imagined numbers). that is where i started to calculate how to do this with splitter and mergers which was even harder so i was again glad to find a calculator that does diagrams for me like in the picture ( last time i checked for these values it looked totally different, maybe i changed something but anyway) This takes up hours of my work and increases the size of my factories by a lot and i am not sure if it is worth it.

Meanwhile i played with a friend who doesnt care about this at all, his factory is not optimized at all, his miner is waiting all the time which seems to be the total opposite of mine. I dont like both approaches, mine is too annoying, his is easy but too wasteful.
Do you have a better approach for me? or is this just some kind of temporary problem because in tier x i will unlock a smart splitter where i can set ratios for splitting?

[deft lichen]

my goodness

[deft lichen]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[median heath]

Do you have a better approach for me? or is this just some kind of temporary problem because in tier x i will unlock a smart splitter where i can set ratios for splitting?

Better approach -> Manifold.

Ratio splitters -> Never, because they would obliterate the balance of the game.

[wheat fog]

what do you mean by obliterating the balance of the game?

i will read into Manifold but does it do what i tried to? or do i have to do some rounding like 3,5 ≈ 5; 4,1 ≈ 5; 16,7 ≈ 15

[wind spade]

no, you just connect everything

[wheat fog]

But i am Glad to hear that mine is not the usual approach because implementing these ratio splitters was more demanding than a whole workday 😄

[median heath]

what do you mean by obliterating the balance of the game?

Belt logistics is an intentional puzzle.
Ratio splitters remove said puzzle.
Game becomes stale and boring.

[magic island]

if every balance question is already easily resolved with manifolds, then I don't see how that "puzzle" could be damaged by ratio splitters

[wind spade]

manifolds have a disadvantage - slower startup time

[wheat fog]

if i connect everything and screws should go to 3 assemblers but one assembler should receive 16,3 per minute and the other ones only 5 per minute, is this doable? i could understand that you say that if there are only 26,3 screws per minute coming from the constructors, that the assembler needing 16,3 per minute would take this amount and not more, leaving 10 screws per minute for the other assemblers. but what if it consumes more screws because it has more available, so there will be more of the resource created in the 16,3 screws per minute assembler than the resource from the other two creating an imbalance and thus slowing the next step

[wind spade]

if it consumes more, then it doesn't need just 16.3/min

[wheat fog]

for example with super simple numbers.
i have a miner that produces 2 iron per minute
at the other end i have an assembler that wants to build something with one iron rod and one iron plate. this super slow assembler needs one minute to build this recipe
after the iron is smelted it goes to two constructors without doing any ratios with splitters.
this means that the iron ingots are sent to the rod constructor and to the plate constructor alternatingly. But once we need three constructors the first constructor in line will receive twice as much ingots than the second and third and because constructing the rods or platings is so fast this means that the constructor will continue to use more ingots, leaving less for the other two that create something different?

or do you mean that it will start to consume more, filling up the assembler until it is completely filled, then until the conveyor belt is filled and then until the constructor itself is completely filled? and then it will use less ingots leaving more to the others so that it will balance out at some point?

puhhhh even asking this questions and thinking this scenarios through is demanding and interesting 😄

[wind spade]

if you make 60, put it into machines that need 60 in total

if the machines need more than 60 in total, then some will starve, no matter if you balance or do manifold

so for your case, if you have 26.3 screws for 16.3 + 5 + 5, it's fine. But if the machines can handle more than 26.3 (so they need more than 26.3 to run at full capacity), it may not work properly

so just make sure that the machines need 16.3, 5 and 5 respectively

[wheat fog]

you mean the final machine/machines in the production line should not need more that the starting resource?

Or do you mean if there are 60 ingots/min and there are 2 constructors that are able to produce rods and plates at a rate of 120 ingots/min that this would not work? because one constructor would take away all the resources from the other constructor? wouldnt this cancel out over time when the produced resource reaches maximum because the following machine needs both of the produced items to do its work?

[wind spade]

I mean that if you make 60, you should consume 60
and vice versa

if you consume more than you make, your machines won't run at 100% capacity

[wheat fog]

mhhhh i have to try it out a little bit, thank you for your input, it helped a lot 🙂

[fervent iris]

How many total GW are on the map?

[median heath]

?

[fervent iris]

I'm getting pretty bored at 300GW and waiting to do nuclear I know I'll need to devote sulfur

feels like not enough sulfur to fully tap the oil into thousands of turbos

[median heath]

Turbofuel is for bullets and jetpacks.

Solid Biofuel -> Coal -> Fuel* -> Diluted -> Nuclear

[vapid gorge]

300gw is more than you reasonably need

[fervent iris]

yeah after doing T4 space elevator I build power for fun

i have 75GW baseload and 300 available

[median heath]

Space Elevator doesn't have tiers.

[fervent iris]

the 'final' complex ones, sure sorry not tiers

[median heath]

If "how many GW on the map" == "What is the maximum power that can be made?" - roughly 1.74 TW

Max Nuke is 1.19 TW by itself.

[fervent iris]

So if 1.19 is nuke yep yep, the other is about 540GW

i'm basically at 60% pre-nuclear saturation and almost out of sulfur

shame they didnt build in spare sulfur

[median heath]

You have more than enough sulfur.

You don't need "spare".

[fervent iris]

How much sulfur does the 2100 uranium/min max nuclear take?

I thought it was 2100

[median heath]

Max Nuke (which most people won't even build) + All Aluminium processed by Instant (which again, most people will never do) = Still enough sulfur for hundreds of Batteries per minute (which most people don't need).

[fervent iris]

ah yeah but I have a bunch tapped into turbofuel

[median heath]

There is 6840 sulfur on the map.
So using 2100 of it is.. meh.

[fervent iris]

that's why I stopped

[median heath]

You chose to do that.
Why you chose to do that is beyond me, but 🤷‍♂️

[fervent iris]

I left around ~3000.

So okie doke, that's good to know

I could convert the northern oil coast into regular fuel to not use sulfur there either I suppose

thats ~600+ fuel gens still

for another 90GW, nice

[median heath]

68 - 21 = 47
47 =/= "~30"

[deft lichen]

Why not go nuclear at that point

[fervent iris]

Folks are saying nuclear is going to change in 1.0

that it's silly to do now, the layouts/recipes/someting will be adjusted

[median heath]

Many, many things are going to change in 1.0

[fervent iris]

with 300GW of turbo, I'm pretty cozy

[median heath]

If you don't believe you will be either a) starting fresh or b) completely overhauling most of everything you have built -- well... you're in for a shock.

[wind spade]

we don't know what's gonna change, most likely majority of recipes

[deft lichen]

Don't you want to start over at 1.0 to experience the story from the start

[fervent iris]

Not after 1k hours really :/

[median heath]

See previous about the incoming shock.

[deft lichen]

That really sounds like THE update to start anew

[fervent iris]

I like overhauls, no need to restart

[median heath]

Then just build nuclear.

Add it to your list of overhauls.

[fervent iris]

Yeah.... I should

[deft lichen]

Well, do what you want

You're just working with totally unconfirmed data

[fervent iris]

indeed

[topaz jetty]

I just plugged in my automated wiring stockpile...

300.000 points/min!

[ember fractal]

Do you reckon 480 batteries / min is enough to support a drone network for transporting late-game components?

[primal flicker]

That's enough to replace most people's trucks and trains with drones.

[deft lichen]

plan enough power capacity with that many drones in mind

[ember fractal]

Yeh, I was thinking that maybe each drone would use around 8 batteries per trip. And if each trip is at least 1 minute one way, I should be able to have around 60 drones in action.

And if I'm mostly using drones to transport low throughput items like HMFs, Crystal Oscs, Radio control units, etc..
I think it should be enough

[primal flicker]

They 4/trip and 4/min after the first minute iirc.

I'm probably off on my numbers.

Regardless, more efficient the longer the flight.

Found it

consuming 4 batteries per trip plus an extra battery per kilometer.

So 5 batteries when the ports are 500m apart, or 14 batteries if they are 5km apart, if I understand that correctly.

[ember fractal]

If it's extra 1 battery per km, for 5km trip it would be 4+5=9

9 batteries, right? Not 14

[wind spade]

+5 for trip back

[ember fractal]

Oh I see, I was thinking the one way cost

[sand epoch]

480 is decent. But you may find yourself running low once you really get into drones. 800+ is a great number 🙂

[viral ravine]

that's a gigantic overkill imo

I make 30 batteries per minute, support 10 drones and still sink a ton of them

[median heath]

More than enough.

[knotty ginkgo]

how can the max consumption be lower?

is this some kind of bug? Its from an oil -> rubber setup

I remade the rubber setup from wrighs alternate recipe guide which claims to take 37 MW for 18.12 Rubber, but that also doesnt seem right
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/pfg0ax/1_oil_to_3_rubber_map_updated/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/16ugm5k/alternate_recipe_ranking_wspreadsheet_update_7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[median heath]

Hoverpack?

[knotty ginkgo]

no hoverpack, also I restarted the game and the consumption increased..

switching from geo to nuclear energy fixed it 🤷‍♂️

[wary tulip]

Geothermal is a variable power source.

[tulip egret]

Fuck geo

[median heath]

Fuck a free consistent 4.5 GW that requires no Power Storage or any other setup?

[tulip egret]

I like straight line

Only reason i wont use it is because of that

[median heath]

Never build a train, truck, or Particle Accelerator.

[tulip egret]

Power prodcution line i like straight*

Consump i couldnt give 2 fucks abt

[median heath]

That's slightly hypocritical imo 🤷‍♂️

[tulip egret]

It is! I just prefer it that way

[mystic moon]

That's the way I feel about it too

Both lines stay flat until I get trucks or sinks though

[wind spade]

and careful around sinks - keep your production constant and always sink only full belts

[chilly fern]

eh? Mind explaining that one?

[wind spade]

sinks only use power when they are actually sinking

[fierce ruin]

yes new meta

[median heath]

[fierce ruin]

yes perfect i called it lets game

[primal flicker]

Does not compute.
(Because you are no longer playing Satisfactory)

[fierce ruin]

huh

nuclear is down

[ember fractal]

Why, trains are good

[median heath]

See the message immediately preceeding the one you replied to.

If want straight line, don't build said things.

[ember fractal]

Lol

[median heath]

Trains are extremely good in their respective use-case. I will never say otherwise.